From nobody Mon Jul 28 14:52:44 2025 X-Original-To: pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4brM0D4szWz639HN; Mon, 28 Jul 2025 14:52:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4brM0D4Hhvz3Ksc; Mon, 28 Jul 2025 14:52:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753714364; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=j0EXcQJ7cYa8IEVZOaD+LkS1mohbEpHGZyoaZGOv0lA=; b=u2c2pwY6/Xt7etF1aUok7tlIe57Q+0qCi5aHfdiB/TGkmseq6d2bwZyHauEJiuVzQxm4gZ hhD8mOwcdoMQcehOLEXxHlWZpadzkjiRNz/uN8swL45Q6KLvVBiZMAXa4Gr0nDPN26/lJF WtClCiZQamb0Pqqe5jS1UKlY2oeGWc7XCcRkgAMbTx9YO6qgjYzK2oPzAExvYPLliV23ne bpARrSu+qVWV+Z10+p4kszEG3UVrA9+HCPdtmfvxglBVlvzezWarW+/OgLuKpe0f5pyKwz f0+0ZvrY2kSjLL6y7e8S6JzPwF1yq93Wmyn9yCoCcSsEDEp90SiJoBDQKMH4Eg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753714364; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=j0EXcQJ7cYa8IEVZOaD+LkS1mohbEpHGZyoaZGOv0lA=; b=KPnIxb8afBOKA+K5gZrpgQc/zlD5kfvvE7y5sqGbNXDpI2fzhMgWLEk0ew7d1Hy7h5i8KU AXsteY/p+3AyCfHcZvVocoUEct1pH8K6mO6gNJa8skkL7/nhobb7mgIE2OoXRbsC/JRlhc RQQPETMXRyiKd2QvfMPA1eu76PtMKCv+73ehfkJAiBwJHLxTRpV4zImX34shxSw+3ZX0tW NsK/bDpc1OLNbumByR/+/T4GZCZx+KOJB+SxzOjptcDogYqUFCw8AARyjgay6fDTSoDZE2 DyVsLFM0ZHHl6u7xzldD2cirBB2UILQLieblyCpdp8ChWvNPOEjH3ht+Diu12Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1753714364; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=wvYseCPYukNrnKpQWzLHbyf+LdDkXp7Gub6F66gX+hrl997LK7zqOd56V0iZgoq53qpfpo WsAqUSiqUDtTm2Pu0BzNi+JDoDiPDY1AZEFUyPQFFqUNZfZcvinTs8wCGwBY9Lh4Kxl/ZQ Xjy0Ec91EBqLVVz3NRuMVFTOXHVkPvhp8cHO3bof0rtIJQf30xYgp7xOPkqRvZzhIWhtWo ZkRRhCtcPrS/s65jcLo1KWjCbP3PSl8EZwv3ihXG7dzGXfd1Ie3ZEQZUwGDFtYcoXkJENY Pv3tfwxmBcekXQAxrHP1E9bZguTTvfRckNg9FOn6WwFhm75iHwyScqY2S20NNw== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1532) id 8B91017B0D; Mon, 28 Jul 2025 14:52:44 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2025 15:52:44 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: 15.0 pkgbase, new package for /usr/bin/make Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OCdoPYhxckXT+Kio" Content-Disposition: inline --OCdoPYhxckXT+Kio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline hello, 14f57afb852d added a new package, FreeBSD-bmake, which contains /usr/bin/make and /usr/share/mk. if you use pkgbase and need make, you should install the new package. expect several more of these announcements as we approach stable/15 since i really want to fix the remaining list of things which are in FreeBSD-utilities but shouldn't be. i apologise for the spam but i think it's better to fix this prior to release rather than after. (these are also noted in UPDATING, but i doubt all pkgbase users read that.) --OCdoPYhxckXT+Kio Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaIeOuAAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YGzOAP49DZ8pwKxX9Yq47qUvFcnp7WfNPNi7yziGoYzIoloyqQD+Jtok4bhjyUyA AG5VEobO+01E04gOBMHCkLZ2hT96uwk= =MTHG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OCdoPYhxckXT+Kio-- From nobody Mon Jul 28 15:31:59 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4brMsj5Rw2z63BjV for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2025 15:32:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crest@rlwinm.de) Received: from mail.rlwinm.de (mail.rlwinm.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:171:f902::5]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4brMsh13zVz3SDl for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2025 15:32:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crest@rlwinm.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of crest@rlwinm.de designates 2a01:4f8:171:f902::5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=crest@rlwinm.de; dmarc=none Received: from [IPV6:2001:9e8:951:aa00:282a:f03a:dd62:b58f] (unknown [IPv6:2001:9e8:951:aa00:282a:f03a:dd62:b58f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) server-digest SHA384) (No client certificate requested) by mail.rlwinm.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0BF0234202 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2025 15:32:00 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2025 17:31:59 +0200 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: 15.0 pkgbase, new package for /usr/bin/make To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Jan Bramkamp In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.73 / 15.00]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.79)[-0.788]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.64)[-0.642]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[rlwinm.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4brMsh13zVz3SDl X-Spamd-Bar: / On 28.07.25 16:52, Lexi Winter wrote: > hello, > > 14f57afb852d added a new package, FreeBSD-bmake, which contains > /usr/bin/make and /usr/share/mk. if you use pkgbase and need make, > you should install the new package. > > expect several more of these announcements as we approach stable/15 > since i really want to fix the remaining list of things which are in > FreeBSD-utilities but shouldn't be. i apologise for the spam but i > think it's better to fix this prior to release rather than after. > > (these are also noted in UPDATING, but i doubt all pkgbase users read > that.) If only the had a few meta packages for package base... 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Mon, 28 Jul 2025 10:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.11.32] ([192.173.128.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3b778f0c64fsm9148468f8f.60.2025.07.28.10.36.15 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Jul 2025 10:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2025 18:36:14 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: pkg: groups (metapkgs) (was: 15.0 pkgbase, new package for /usr/bin/make) To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.33 / 15.00]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.65)[0.653]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[grahamperrin]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::432:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4brQd45K9Kz3jlC X-Spamd-Bar: / On 28/07/2025 16:31, Jan Bramkamp wrote: > … meta packages for package base... > From nobody Wed Jul 30 00:28:35 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsCkS06m3z62qrM; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 00:28:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsCkQ23Vgz3DjW; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 00:28:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b=JaGK+G2A; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:28:35 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.6 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsCkQ23Vgz3DjW X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Hi, after short discussion here: - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 I got REALLY concerned. One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! Consider this command: # pkg delete -af What it does? It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: - FreeBSD-clibs - FreeBSD-runtime All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected FreeBSD-rescue package and its also removed. WTF?! POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is the POLA now? Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? Its crazy ... Regards, vermaden From nobody Wed Jul 30 00:33:25 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsCr56xM9z62rBy for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 00:33:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-yw1-x1134.google.com (mail-yw1-x1134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsCr56JDZz3F6L for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 00:33:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-x1134.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-717b580ff2aso3790437b3.0 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; t=1753835616; x=1754440416; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3sHeWLcRoscak0ZAVt7ouhluqxSX/bsTh+mI4M3sfFY=; b=dcGe3VRCtzTj3J7NZbnZ2i/4cw/eokAOP79Dvg7Oor2iT8uBO+GQxFMOsqEiI6tajM T2RPX9jIi4S3li1Hy52AMRMU7HSt6zWnc1FICGCbpvzZ6SoIRbAFy1p+beNq2dyhq7yc 1FpVOuwsFLDRkrC3XT+0dDOAJ5riKoszJjfHfrykoTaMW80GPBzV1XE8RKZKI8cL5xTF vRRNM8+FhEooieGfL4Sd27h691gjr3d63rl54AJXWTbTFx0WIKZUIcle91dlqmynk+YU xHsW0qLXD20iMT1/InEtVeZDj0fiF8rV/TzMHbvPxm7zoYnTTwfRf3OSzJ41YJuoBPHS pYZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753835616; x=1754440416; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=3sHeWLcRoscak0ZAVt7ouhluqxSX/bsTh+mI4M3sfFY=; b=koM0DU20DAxyvFfVvXgF4ZbqiWcPdZ0qKqoBe23Fq4eI+yPyRJu9kNtTytkP+b2kZQ vVTJQO9EMFEj5/t1X4ZlfqR2/Z8Nuv6U1bKnGpuFziywRbQUtqMOUGvVjY0Dxe6uWTO9 ogyG84GtdqYEXks9Xxn9JjpVguL35vsqYaMkGFaHcP0CMJVrI+jDRQMZKLAL+O6q5Nwn 9ynjXtlDIHGSoo2VKkPztkgaDsbRvYGyBItuiw4lFtvYpRgrAIZPLS4hgsLDVIS+1aEG fHLpSD41+hDg5BWKsfsKzYI8kIMsGxhwdDlGgWjLBIHr7H/5yhel6Jl4phrZb1T6cokc QBGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyX7bBi3UHUPh+H3JmMhBLXvaS+tyq6u5MhpjaK3CmXBXfRyaDJ vcYyFvdXTIuOmKAjutO4W1G6jZXxV6Csb9ZVNoZbBFCsseuDa89V3hsoEr4wP4UgBLryTfwFGuk btkY= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsULtheG3J8UTIoHmdeUcSUNVwbO2RBzyjV1ayqtaMDzqyweGFDXgcFPc2nmRv Z7bIN+8pjUiB6/V8V3JkB2DufHDs89KTMTh8c5xH3qnn8QCjbGdz3vnXvc7WB28j3OPyamTZi4G 789FOPcQLkZ8PET3Eb41Pauqh1z3Z0X8Vm+URzsj7Syfc2iAAgDvtUrGIRqJKAdrgFo9CbCIidC bbcoMObdpQ/aodQWOrpoXDsTQXk1qvCCnExJfG8NjnTpz71ams87WpspuY3UWbu1bj3l5cWwSGZ uz6dFsq3E8EumvH+E+St16lA7jswu52CDBoJQqtTvgU0yAe6Ha4PQOO5XrWlcY+iAlhBnoB2VSc TVIP0oYrbx7FTOGu5tieb3pCScwITm4Yc+K08Vtr1FPTg4I0elGnJ/STlnhc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHR6ov4pT5BlNCVEcmvFTZm06Dlvrn3PYGaROer6oGo/ceb7+D5rL/aKQomWeV8NBP3JJ+DtQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:338f:b0:71a:39a7:de21 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71a46522702mr27176057b3.3.1753835616197; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-f170.google.com (mail-yb1-f170.google.com. [209.85.219.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-719f215308dsm21225587b3.18.2025.07.29.17.33.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-f170.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e8e0d209623so465348276.0; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUQRhHFUUrTkY58sdrqoLrBlrGrMXY1DJdyS3zYop+hHLHICXcjOlpbI6Jiepcc3Owbe33k/Z47Z7qGuYA=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCVSpYnjmO6uXqlTwwMGurKwp6arUCl7x3ht93QJsykY6uwtf2X9zD1DaUTYzLivyoomxiqPjcBPsz3Htzcpafc=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWMbCrMaTynN6X3Nydu51luuebawow1vZouizeKkar6r84Gm5z2XaDmpKdoIugKfcu9Splu9TQdIc0N739DcOg=@freebsd.org X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:6b16:b0:e8e:29bf:df08 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e8e315c9869mr1947671276.44.1753835615089; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:35 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:33:25 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXz2xIy7Zp7RcdYgvXd8HSltpqZSHe0EqKZPI9mOBZLPrpqAhiFNO8LJQ44 Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d517e5063b1aac38" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsCr56JDZz3F6L X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --000000000000d517e5063b1aac38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jul 30, 2025, 02:28 vermaden wrote: > Hi, > > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 > > I got REALLY concerned. > > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the > 'untouchable' Base System. > > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. > > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! > > Consider this command: > > # pkg delete -af > > What it does? > > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without > touching the FreeBSD Base System. > > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? > > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only > two PKGBASE packages called: > > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime > > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected > FreeBSD-rescue package and its also removed. > > WTF?! > > POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is > the POLA now? > > Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without > PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* > literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? > > Its crazy ... > > Regards, > vermaden > yup :-( -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info --000000000000d517e5063b1aac38 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On W= ed, Jul 30, 2025, 02:28 vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> wrote:
Hi,

after short discussion here:
- https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485

I got REALLY concerned.

One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the '= ;untouchable' Base System.

Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved.

But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE!

Consider this command:

# pkg delete -af

What it does?

It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system wit= hout touching the FreeBSD Base System.

What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD = system?

It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two= PKGBASE packages called:

- FreeBSD-clibs
- FreeBSD-runtime

All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed.

You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected Free= BSD-rescue package and its also removed.

WTF?!

POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is t= he POLA now?

Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system w= ithout PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg dele= te -af* literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System?

Its crazy ...

Regards,
vermaden

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Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([2001:470:4001:1::95]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 8926c6da1cb9f-508c91edeb1sm3027875173.35.2025.07.29.19.18.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:18:40 +0000 From: Shawn Webb To: vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Message-ID: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 14.3-STABLE-HBSD FreeBSD 14.3-STABLE-HBSD HARDENEDBSD-14-STABLE amd64 X-PGP-Key: https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/blob/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="z6ngwkyglkjghwbx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsG9P0ztZz3V07 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --z6ngwkyglkjghwbx Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 02:28:35AM +0200, vermaden wrote: > Hi, >=20 > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >=20 > I got REALLY concerned. >=20 > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'u= ntouchable' Base System. >=20 > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >=20 > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >=20 > Consider this command: >=20 > # pkg delete -af >=20 > What it does? >=20 > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without t= ouching the FreeBSD Base System. >=20 > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >=20 > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only t= wo PKGBASE packages called: >=20 > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime >=20 > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. Hey vermaden, As mentioned in the GitHub ticket, it appears there might be some room for discussion on which base packages ought to be marked vital and if the current list (of two) should be expanded. I suspect there could also be room for discussion on technical measures pkg could adopt to help mitigate issues like this. I myself don't have much in the way of suggestions on either topic of discussion. I'm simply hoping this email moves the needle forward in a positive direction. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 Tor-ified Signal: +1 303-901-1600 / shawn_webb_opsec.50 https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A= 4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --z6ngwkyglkjghwbx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAmiJgPgACgkQ/y5nonf4 4fraZhAApJo0TCgSjFHuLLDOsTetAdFO45PwxZuwQKo9Q490cI3o8cJdOjjb0S8Z 9vouPbkv1ffTN0dTqnUhJajcpRgXKXyvxA83F7qJDin+p87rZcBpKlnTbeQrm2Rt 0J3EcsaAsCIlwgeLtpdcvYBEWlC5i4ffw62sQN8R+ip1A1p6cNEmIzonq+PZrZF3 lZXgEGd9ubOwjOwKq7ZEduZJoCn1j5CXoNN/zYQQVNCTVDTEnRncEj8TUp/4qt5W f3W4MZZUqRD6Z7s66T4etYuju9gcDK/OhZ9oaA0/v7XmMhzTK15EegjjrW7epDZc hBCHd/yboD5Q1mj+Af9pz2ohC5pnU7iC9I2c+MvX2BNB2J+yRUQuHP9GXVIUOsb2 N1AtCRiaudzCV/66CW4tERIwwmZJ+61Tiy4JgHn07IIO8+/lRt4mALK28yYG+uGq OzQG1Q72z3S9JkyVokkA9L1WN+jplgdIfOsW72GlQqfjr6h7uHkiSUNKQ9wOOcpZ oq7lY7Fon1pQmolK8kVT4k28trgfIewtyDYU3vLflrVgD6M/+sFJ2vHIpLHkZevA nvw3tBWUjT3O0ZRNGtudLwsd5LnqSJ5D0mdeJwWXizDIjvCcVE0IHqVJpL3uZUPn iEmGMu7Ida7OzyLCHjsSu6IHvYiWIofxRbpLN0qEKI9/PKOLGaM= =ivPd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --z6ngwkyglkjghwbx-- From nobody Wed Jul 30 02:20:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsGCj2ycVz62xp8; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:20:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsGCh4F8yz3XSP; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:20:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=Lr4LuR1S; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grahamperrin@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::435 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grahamperrin@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3b7892609a5so162961f8f.1; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:20:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1753842041; x=1754446841; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from:cc :content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date :message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UbBRihyM4Z1sPvNJVn4Ia8spB1RlE2Ddk8Ln7Eq9zY0=; b=Lr4LuR1Smu/oAEga2o1cky9Y1M9mGhpJEUOFFd8P0jmfSmBURvfYO2e+EW0NrNNjDe 81YJTZIX8OKEaCn5kZ9nj1CU0aPAWd2jgT6ozmZgijZ4Z5Y0TvUg5rAFhXAELUpcnqGj Si4bIdqn6xZLE3xmGrkG0ukZtZpZEYSj9YCYEUlNsEf45Ibqpz2qKx0I/1hTAJXHwU68 SGsM8p5fNEbPMHB3JLsMuriuszVxpFDd8EKscuRj9oTHQ3qX0ZXTLbE9ju3BBajQTPOK RIh+eHRq/xg75DrA3P5YAwywFw0RNUACE/CmuSbMLRKncpET1iB8Y0qSvTX88jjTxlfG ApXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753842041; x=1754446841; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from:cc :content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date :message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=UbBRihyM4Z1sPvNJVn4Ia8spB1RlE2Ddk8Ln7Eq9zY0=; b=MgpB8bwEOnb/JoOiNdOn7g/75psmfqyzjwMOYENIPXER18xGN6QTEVtC9F/uMexLgH XWUPI/PuHEzRQ5UjZSs48PLuWuy/I215ZT/Fb+dzsku/FKnySnbjunR+Pnc6UBWXV6sI 9BIPC/UqXThK5qAM6x5FF0+nc9KL6DpJjdXofMRVRi+oBp211s4FoeMgjOvs4xESFF+I 3Vk9mleYv1tRMn41RNFf3gionPScKuJn5gkykmzbf15+m2Rn101G+8ei6u5G18smrOAT 6V63uBnCSOqr+0PUbz41QvrCCo+BZGTNuJsTwV6V8Pjd7D+rFzV86ziunn8M55DR7Xiw cydg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUS0O/T5HJE9AcCBMe1alk77lNuhScIbYVpYxbOoKtuSuQqjYjNzZsj6suAqQoWDrItxw4pNnVdRdcKC0X8p18=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YycuuZp5uCx+DsKdH4M85VQvgyNBwR4vlgmZOaKlmjqllFpyGTr CA+LoU3CKHVbo91D242XBCCb3chlk67sxYVM9U5se6pgJsJszMiVcbH2A9IU2Q== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncv1GgOTdMSRJYSbOgm9Y08se5us9KcdZynOAbYmU2duwcdEf7BhQjuUWl8lBrE +pVQ4DQBpFkGmzg6DqxN1euaFLW9ztoAkUuOUn7rdrX0l6mgZ9zf+LrgdcuAEEM0PLejYJB99JT YRJVeI3SrabtCgoaySVCwZvNNb/74ScPTqZJhJ8+9dTdOddwzotATc35LbkmkcRE0SnOcJ5desX VEm9vsdTtMmXC+r2Fn2SP9Ls9gvZHwj+gFZ4Bhpf79AvOhb4TsdAVbYeSP+s40S1qGoB/nTol5u vhqM7Tub99IipNJrFw9418KGxl7ca0DxsUKLCOutnoir1DH4sUGjJPWRDsqTC9LepP7kXcnrQ58 Ch+Hwr7g8UVfpuKE9P21fbpbGRYx8nvEV2a+KL57yF4MLCivTOUN0prjNiB4LzyPb5Vyx83s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFd4D5MsdY2gmP6kttO/sA5K+9wPIK7cDiRmLv1Ay2VSlnM7pqrCX14gC5UAVgAwYozx+2m0g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2008:b0:3b7:8fcc:a1e3 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3b795032797mr1198109f8f.48.1753842041161; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (host-89-241-205-78.as13285.net. [89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3b778f04744sm13633589f8f.54.2025.07.29.19.20.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 03:20:39 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Pkgbase removing all third party pkgs nukes system To: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-GB Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.76 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.76)[-0.762]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[grahamperrin]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::435:from]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsGCh4F8yz3XSP X-Spamd-Bar: --- On 30/07/2025 03:02, TheComputerCollector wrote: > This should not be shipped. Removing all third party packages with > pkg(8) nukes the system, deleting everything but a few libraries. > Pkgbase should be handled by a seperate pkgbase(8) command. I belive > that all packages that make up a traditional base should have a flag > that only lets them be manipulated by pkgbase(8), while everything > else can be manipulated by pkg, even though the new command is a > frontend for the same system. I also belive that you should be able to > add that flag to normal packages, for example if I want ftpd back. I > also belive this would be good for stopping forced system updates when > updating software, which is something I hate about Linux. The subject line reminds me of . From nobody Wed Jul 30 03:14:37 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsHQ25KFDz631J6 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 03:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [66.165.241.226]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsHQ20n5Jz3bmq for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 03:14:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nomadlogic.org; s=04242021; t=1753845277; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RNgiv7Y9XFTm0jhKLNgezD9X6Dix2Cocv5Nt3DElBCY=; b=jlztBF2TLjW5NLvnLMsSDM9TYAIdRM1NLIXB0FeW73EQ4Avb9ggOb4exnC4YN+lgqFPctV RikLHYRbvVdYA4Oa2H6WjSjSh9X3XQN1CFWWVgfAUWC0XyliBkBXQ8nGtvFL6EXoQcR5K8 9DWE8iAkrn8CXqh96H8ylrTBet6yLag= Received: from [192.168.1.182] (47-150-35-101.fdr01.snmn.ca.ip.frontiernet.net [47.150.35.101]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 4aa7dd13 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 30 Jul 2025 03:14:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <05e21800-f283-4d78-922d-76d9a9aad2d0@nomadlogic.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2025 20:14:37 -0700 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Shawn Webb , vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Pete Wright In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsHQ20n5Jz3bmq X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29802, ipnet:66.165.240.0/22, country:US] On 7/29/25 19:18, Shawn Webb wrote: > On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 02:28:35AM +0200, vermaden wrote: >> Hi, >> >> after short discussion here: >> - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >> >> I got REALLY concerned. >> >> One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. >> >> Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >> >> But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >> >> Consider this command: >> >> # pkg delete -af >> >> What it does? >> >> It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. >> >> What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >> >> It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: >> >> - FreeBSD-clibs >> - FreeBSD-runtime >> >> All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > Hey vermaden, > > As mentioned in the GitHub ticket, it appears there might be some room > for discussion on which base packages ought to be marked vital and if > the current list (of two) should be expanded. > > I suspect there could also be room for discussion on technical > measures pkg could adopt to help mitigate issues like this. > > I myself don't have much in the way of suggestions on either topic of > discussion. I'm simply hoping this email moves the needle forward in a > positive direction. Fortunately pkgbase doesn't seem to be changing what is IMHO the real differentiator of BSD - the fact that the tools, userland and kernel are all part of one coherent development process. This feels like a natural progression to me. To the original point of ensuring you can't nuke the entire base system by accident. one idea i didn't see on the github thread (apologies if i missed it) is adding a config parameter to the repo config. So perhaps a FreeBSD-base.conf could look like so: FreeBSD-base: { url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_release_3", mirror_type: "srv", signature_type: "fingerprints", fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", enabled: yes protected: yes } where "protected" would prevent packages from getting outright deleted? I could even see this getting extended to private repo configs - for example i may want to make sure people can't uninstall the software i deploy to my site using our internal repo. -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org From nobody Wed Jul 30 07:30:26 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsP512L69z63KDb; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsP511Y5jz3vJt; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753860629; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fOzBqJ2qCkbKRriCPjhNrcHMOmu1jN9f8QsFsPAuuMc=; b=C6Hwj/WJM4Q5RCs2XSwOBT1lgpAttuQWRJ0SzmBllxcvy8gkmN2PjPqPQedbx8yZNnaJIq UDQkXmReYFrrchh5VpAruvZ9wwB8SxQ5fvfH8vmgMlHT67G3sT4WWNzVb4eRkFolE03FVI 0245pKF1EwoBBV3qhWCPBGgNqmGQOQeZUgdGryAlilj8JyqNzIV1l4iOY4LAZfFf8xC1ET 0dcqjbjtUuW0NyFw/ARKFawVPFdroF+EeP2hEfM84MtnBF/y/ER8Z5Tw6ykq3IlxucXMuW blaqSPIbFseGwNEcBq1TKDfmYKLw9DcxlWMiVWFMlWtDpuRUYAp9+uUa5HP4hQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753860629; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fOzBqJ2qCkbKRriCPjhNrcHMOmu1jN9f8QsFsPAuuMc=; b=rpbGzbplGAA99CYXa/Xy4sDBXsGfwWdxx688B56uV2AtNKhvZQyeH/gEas1X0KC4nT/Dao wUpRiYdGfCA0VFl+I2F1IaW/cADc4bH4KuP+AxjAz/G7G8nmLspM/UMn/smrDWGfIL9MNz YW4J+FwW8lxg617Tul/Bz0AobT0pKwBcG2lmdPdP8E4qg6UCD/BKH+If0XvOSNrjIOnfYi PnXTA2EUuOvZEOp9dbtOW93kFkFSqi4uY1KeZUQXxI25RdZpnSIvXNZk+HZwMTk5svhGgM T+Wu0LWz4/t5iVvYu2/DOD5zVfjs7QMllvTpZV58+nyDA6imMrEsx1m++zNkBg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1753860629; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qc9D9LXcrHX90lVlOblzJInEf26Ow0hAHG6EksEfNbfGIMVroHmbs6RAkYmfiaydYQ+e5B WdTpvgYqGjBcbVGqamT01aMl53pzo5gXbeI1+9x6OyYcDJ3XcOyEbLWxdrAb3fnBRpBVfL znRkNq/lRMl7jJ3WFuJr8i6rJQeodApbY7NDnLrrkNctNwK7BJz2VM31Pgtaw9hJ/dctHv OWwIiyEW/LvMzYPzlZWyHsKGRQgvQBV1srcp7E/TY9hKydxKmweGE7oBIbbXUJlSyQLf9/ xxh8jpi/qqZZrcoDxKAWaJEArjmt0oXr/y8DEDdmneUrcJpEt7O6diLrdKl3yw== Received: from b.nours.eu (b.nours.eu [54.38.177.57]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bsP5071cLzrP6; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: by b.nours.eu (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B09C290F57; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 09:30:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 09:30:26 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Message-ID: <2rpjsqnjda4s5ks6nye3cywec5numok6qrhpnniteawusr7wkg@du4fwkss2iyw> References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: On Wed 30 Jul 02:28, vermaden wrote: > Hi, > > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 > > I got REALLY concerned. > > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. untouchable is really subjective and has always been, there are so many build options and one of the selling point for many is the customizability, in particular for the wildly deploy use case of appliances. But even on desktops people keeps tweaking the build options... > > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. > > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! > > Consider this command: > > # pkg delete -af > > What it does? > > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. No it remove all the packages. semantic matters. > > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? > > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: > > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime This is why the vital flag are designed for. > > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected FreeBSD-rescue package and its also removed. > > WTF?! > > POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is the POLA now? > > Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? > > Its crazy ... Before jumping straight into making a drama, maybe ask for the plan? or discuss with people involved, or even better propose some help? The plan is the following for years: either create meta packages which will be flagged as vital for various combinaison of pkgbase: base, base-minimal, base-oci etc., etc. and use groups (marked as vital as well) if they are ready by then. This part has been delayed because: groups are now ready yet in pkg but might be there by the time 15.0-RELEASE is there. Bapt From nobody Wed Jul 30 18:30:20 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsgkj1lJ8z62tQr; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 18:30:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo2.interia.pl (smtpo2.interia.pl [217.74.67.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsgkh3dbXz486W; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 18:30:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 20:30:20 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Shawn Webb Cc: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , pete@nomadlogic.org, bapt@freebsd.org, bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs, shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.6 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1753900229; bh=djkOPwrNAVqNGFcCLZkRkLUIzvDo43fITXN3/GIUE8Q=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=rfOJC389yFqT3fqgLJdP3z94yCzwQiPn5zqL1ujyioGDQBjeyq7YbJ8QUqxXxaMOV h9gY9QmHvtIIWXnxkV2iJn91qMxO8lPpGjUAeNmcR7hc3NRW2GKPF9GxECjAObeKPo /8dDbN94gE2c4FMDbqJunoZkcRYC/ZmSqNKdVod0= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsgkh3dbXz486W X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Hi. I have only two proposals that seem sensible. (1) Keep pkg(8) for third party packages with /etc/pkg and /usr/local/etc/pkg and /var/db/pkg dirs for configuration. Use separate pkgbase(8) with /etc/pkgbase and /usr/local/etc/pkgbase and /var/db/pkgbase dirs for managing PKGBASE packages. By pkgbase(8) I have the same pkg(8) project in mind - just renamed as pkgbase(8) and with */pkgbase dirs instead of */pkg. (2) My other idea is to 'mark' all FreeBSD Base System packages as 'vital' - so they are never removed automatically - but if someone wants to remove them with additional force option - then I assume he knows what he is doing. I would prefer (1) over (2) if you ask me. As for additional groups like base-minimal or base-standard - I do not have anything against such additional features or layers - its not related to the main topic IMHO - that with 'classic' FreeBSD the *pkg delete -af* removes only third party packages and with PKGBASE FreeBSD it removes almost all system rendering it unbootable/unusable. Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-07-30 4:18 Nadawca: "Shawn Webb" <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>; DW: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org; > >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 02:28:35AM +0200, vermaden wrote: >> Hi, >> >> after short discussion here: >> - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >> >> I got REALLY concerned. >> >> One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. >> >> Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >> >> But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >> >> Consider this command: >> >> # pkg delete -af >> >> What it does? >> >> It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. >> >> What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >> >> It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: >> >> - FreeBSD-clibs >> - FreeBSD-runtime >> >> All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > Hey vermaden, > > As mentioned in the GitHub ticket, it appears there might be some room > for discussion on which base packages ought to be marked vital and if > the current list (of two) should be expanded. > > I suspect there could also be room for discussion on technical > measures pkg could adopt to help mitigate issues like this. > > I myself don't have much in the way of suggestions on either topic of > discussion. I'm simply hoping this email moves the needle forward in a > positive direction. > > Thanks, > > -- > Shawn Webb > Cofounder / Security Engineer > HardenedBSD > > Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 > Tor-ified Signal: +1 303-901-1600 / shawn_webb_opsec.50 > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc > > From nobody Wed Jul 30 22:27:40 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsn100jqFz635dW; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:28:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vimanuelt@fastmail.fm) Received: from fout-a8-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a8-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.151]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsn0z5tr8z3jv3; 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Wed, 30 Jul 2025 18:28:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: A0SBu-oedW3g Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 07:27:40 +0900 From: vimanuelt To: vermaden , "Shawn Webb" Cc: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , pete@nomadlogic.org, bapt@freebsd.org, bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsn0z5tr8z3jv3 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:AU] Building on Vermaden=E2=80=99s observations, it is worth reevaluating th= e current architectural assumptions underpinning FreeBSD=E2=80=99s packa= ge management model. The practice of overloading a single tool, namely p= kg, to manage both the base system and third-party software introduces s= emantic ambiguity, violates long-standing UNIX separation-of-concerns pr= inciples, and compromises system resilience. This unification, while exp= edient, creates a fragile interface that conflates operational layers wi= th distinct trust, mutability, and lifecycle characteristics. A more coherent model would partition the system into three well-defined= strata, each governed by its own tooling and aligned explicitly with th= e FreeBSD filesystem hierarchy. At the foundation lies the base system, = encompassing the kernel, essential userland utilities, standard librarie= s, and canonical configuration. These components reside in /bin, /sbin, = /lib, and /etc, and collectively define the system=E2=80=99s identity, o= perability, and recoverability. Managing this layer through the same mec= hanisms used for optional software creates an unacceptable risk surface,= wherein routine administrative operations=E2=80=94such as invoking pkg = delete -af=E2=80=94may render the system unbootable. To address this, the base system should be managed independently by a sp= ecialised tool=E2=80=94basectl, for example=E2=80=94whose operational sc= ope is restricted to base components alone. This tool would support sign= ed, versioned manifests and enforce immutability policies by default, wh= ile permitting profile-based customisation where appropriate. Such a sys= tem would reduce coupling, restore system trust boundaries, and provide = formal recovery semantics. The second layer comprises third-party software drawn from the FreeBSD p= orts collection. This software, by convention, is isolated under /usr/lo= cal and is appropriately managed by the existing pkg tool. In this revis= ed model, pkg would remain responsible for software acquisition, depende= ncy resolution, and updates within its designated namespace, but would b= e explicitly barred from operating on core system components. This disti= nction not only aligns with historical UNIX design patterns but also imp= roves auditability and operational safety. The third layer consists of the user domain. Individual users often requ= ire localised environments to install and manage tools without elevated = privileges. For this, a dedicated user-scoped package manager=E2=80=94te= ntatively userpkg=E2=80=94could enable installations within $HOME, ideal= ly under a directory conforming to the XDG Base Directory Specification = such as ~/.local. This tool would function independently of system-wide = package databases and would support multiple versions, user-level overri= des, and declarative environment configurations. In effect, it would off= er FreeBSD users capabilities comparable to those found in systems like = Nix, Guix, or Flatpak, without compromising the integrity of the host sy= stem. The result of this layered design is a system whose components are gover= ned by coherent authority domains, each with appropriate tooling and lif= ecycle management. The risks associated with monolithic tooling=E2=80=94= such as destructive global operations, inconsistent state transitions, a= nd violated invariants=E2=80=94are mitigated by structural separation an= d role-specific semantics. Administrators gain clearer recovery paths, u= sers are granted autonomy, and the overall system becomes more predictab= le and maintainable. Importantly, this proposal is not a deviation from FreeBSD=E2=80=99s arc= hitectural tradition, but a principled refinement. It reasserts the boun= dary between system and application, elevates the role of policy in tool= design, and brings FreeBSD in line with contemporary best practices in = operating system modularity and user space isolation. By embracing delib= erate separation across the base, administrative, and user levels, FreeB= SD can strengthen its reliability and clarity while remaining responsive= to evolving user needs. - Vic P.S. This proposal reflects my own thinking, though I used a grammar too= l to ensure clarity and readability. I recognize that informal regional = dialects=E2=80=94particularly Southern American English=E2=80=94may not = serve this audience well, and I have taken care to present the ideas in = a more neutral and accessible register. On Thu, Jul 31, 2025, at 03:30, vermaden wrote: > Hi. > > I have only two proposals that seem sensible. > > (1) > > Keep pkg(8) for third party packages with /etc/pkg and=20 > /usr/local/etc/pkg and /var/db/pkg dirs for configuration. > > Use separate pkgbase(8) with /etc/pkgbase and /usr/local/etc/pkgbase=20 > and /var/db/pkgbase dirs for managing PKGBASE packages. By pkgbase(8) = I=20 > have the same pkg(8) project in mind - just renamed as pkgbase(8) and=20 > with */pkgbase dirs instead of */pkg. > > (2) > > My other idea is to 'mark' all FreeBSD Base System packages as 'vital'=20 > - so they are never removed automatically - but if someone wants to=20 > remove them with additional force option - then I assume he knows what=20 > he is doing. > > I would prefer (1) over (2) if you ask me. > > As for additional groups like base-minimal or base-standard - I do not=20 > have anything against such additional features or layers - its not=20 > related to the main topic IMHO - that with 'classic' FreeBSD the *pkg=20 > delete -af* removes only third party packages and with PKGBASE FreeBSD=20 > it removes almost all system rendering it unbootable/unusable. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, > vermaden > > > > Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature > Data: 2025-07-30 4:18 > Nadawca: "Shawn Webb" <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org> > Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 > DW: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org;=20 > freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org;=20 > >>=20 >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 02:28:35AM +0200, vermaden wrote: >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> after short discussion here: >>> - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >>>=20 >>> I got REALLY concerned. >>>=20 >>> One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is > the 'untouchable' Base System. >>>=20 >>> Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >>>=20 >>> But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >>>=20 >>> Consider this command: >>>=20 >>> # pkg delete -af >>>=20 >>> What it does? >>>=20 >>> It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system > without touching the FreeBSD Base System. >>>=20 >>> What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD > system? >>>=20 >>> It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves > only two PKGBASE packages called: >>>=20 >>> - FreeBSD-clibs >>> - FreeBSD-runtime >>>=20 >>> All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. >>=20 >> Hey vermaden, >>=20 >> As mentioned in the GitHub ticket, it appears there might be some room >> for discussion on which base packages ought to be marked vital and if >> the current list (of two) should be expanded. >>=20 >> I suspect there could also be room for discussion on technical >> measures pkg could adopt to help mitigate issues like this. >>=20 >> I myself don't have much in the way of suggestions on either topic of >> discussion. I'm simply hoping this email moves the needle forward in a >> positive direction. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> --=20 >> Shawn Webb >> Cofounder / Security Engineer >> HardenedBSD >>=20 >> Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 >> Tor-ified Signal: +1 303-901-1600 / shawn_webb_opsec.50 >> > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Web= b/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc >>=20 >> From nobody Thu Jul 31 01:24:50 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsrwq0zlYz63GdR; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 01:24:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marquis@roble.com) Received: from mx5.roble.com (mx5.roble.com [209.237.23.5]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx5.roble.com", Issuer "mx5.roble.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsrwp0dPYz40pR; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 01:24:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marquis@roble.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=roble.com header.s=rs060402 header.b=BrOxR3uY; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marquis@roble.com designates 209.237.23.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marquis@roble.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=roble.com Received: from roble.com (roble.com [209.237.23.50]) by mx5.roble.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4A54B389; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 18:24:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=roble.com; s=rs060402; t=1753925091; bh=t7JxjJzqMtJDxzJv7dUaJtw3yTMxsFgpIOPLKht9G6o=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=BrOxR3uYqa6l8y0Wa+mkbGyjQiJa2Jhq7Ki2x98IXp1Xky6ckhKfqAgZ/ZRU5CIkX nca4rUPgvXSGXYosy7UoXMcb01hVi3TbWmKfXKxQ25UWlhP9BsbIjod0l7Yu0qe8FG u2a3leutk9XagL8TV4biof0AxkuVclnGctRTU67M= Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 18:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Marquis To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.71 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.914]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[roble.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[roble.com:s=rs060402]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.237.23.0/24]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:17403, ipnet:209.237.0.0/18, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[roble.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsrwp0dPYz40pR X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Thu, 31 Jul 2025, vimanuelt wrote: > ... the current architectural assumptions underpinning FreeBSD?s package > management model. The practice of overloading a single tool, namely pkg, to > manage both the base system and third-party software introduces semantic > ambiguity, violates long-standing UNIX separation-of-concerns principles, A single pkg command for both base and third-party packages would not be a problem so much as a feature for 3 reasons: 1) it has a long track record of working in Linux, 2) it facilitates 'distroless' and 'minimal' base and jails which, like Linux containers, are much desired as they reduce the attack surface and minimize pkg update overhead, and 3) yet another package command would be confusing and create unnecessary maintenance overhead. For those worried about recursive deletes, removing essential base packages with a '-F' flag (force base too) and/or '-RR' (recurse base too) could potentially limit unintentional dangerous actions. Either way it would IMO be simpler and more intuitive if all pkg flags were base-aware rather than requiring a different command with a slightly different set of flags. Bottom line: FreeBSD's current inability to create a minimal base, much less minimal jails, is a HUGE USABILITY GAP that makes the OS problematic to spec in appliances and IoT much less jails. Facilitating security updates and enabling minimal distributions are critical to FreeBSD staying viable as an OS. I say this as a security analyst who spends a large portion of every working day trying to help engineering and operations patch tens of thousands of unnecessarily vulnerability-ridden systems. Roger Marquis From nobody Thu Jul 31 02:41:00 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bstgG2m87z63LG9; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 02:43:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vimanuelt@fastmail.fm) Received: from fout-b5-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-b5-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.148]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bstgG0L3Tz474d; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 02:43:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vimanuelt@fastmail.fm) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from phl-compute-01.internal (phl-compute-01.phl.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailfout.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86D11D00163; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-imap-01 ([10.202.2.91]) by phl-compute-01.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:43:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date:date :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1753929800; x=1754016200; bh=0Cj/myqQ20wI9QZFop+IqQWyYd9d8YfOQwk54Z7kY/U=; b= azVVzZt3nENhwka7Ce+e17q7wXpR+RSGHinFMzqGFS+u0qpCUVHDRc8hBARf1cBS IfPR3nxDZ0ZibDovWiOPjPveJSsEt6pBlUXNh2F3rOcU4sbUrvwvimaBpRyED1IN /lPAezMTErcpo+6hFtqlZyNDgUBarvgWhWIfag1ANbwRUt40gGt6JickE+zJCt5/ dDeBbPIQIE1tv0wdYu/EKiQyfOZZDGaGXfCnh+HhF2L3R40DqpefVi78Ryo7/+M3 t/7j6M23bVnZbUEGnMPBpjVQA9e8rmo4kkldk813bjjhvSuGZDITz0BlkUfQS4jK WZR3tq2kVwr5p/d/pywVaw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1753929800; x=1754016200; bh=0 Cj/myqQ20wI9QZFop+IqQWyYd9d8YfOQwk54Z7kY/U=; b=f/b9D9yxu8D7ExHy8 WUN3Sllya6xG+ASXlx0YoSXInP2b+WqLPxH5uAZHCHSq9htXd1BG/S17lSApTBhm q6D6VMstKzAiloBxQPPZW7fJyJrVSEIN6mMA8kzG6GbL5y5HIw6fLwhyTQJfdvhU Yd0AcjpkpN21D+5yTzH6uLEPkCzOqAjmvdSW0TSJnGHESZKWlx/2+86pPrpNA3dJ WMH203fODjRxwGteAw1bsNieqCIAG9VafFxHPJMn+jft/QH/N1TMlfFZC1KoaWxw H5ml5g/laomjkN8NeSDzFEK5SGwrjKlNg4cdO1eus+wu2LZzGaYuXkx6MJslnVEv 5dz8g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdefgdelleeigecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpefoggffhffvkfgjfhfutgfgsehtqhertdertdejnecuhfhrohhmpehvihhmrghnuhgv lhhtuceovhhimhgrnhhuvghlthesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnheptedtgeffkeefvdeikeeutedvffdvtdefkeehueegjefhteelvdfhgfdukeekfeek necuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepvhhimh grnhhuvghlthesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmhdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohephedpmhhouggv pehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepfhhrvggvsghsugdqtghurhhrvghnthesfhhrvg gvsghsugdrohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehfrhgvvggsshguqdhpkhhgsehfrhgvvggsshgu rdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepfhhrvggvsghsugdqphhkghgsrghsvgesfhhrvggvsghsug drohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehfrhgvvggsshguqdhsthgrsghlvgesfhhrvggvsghsugdr ohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehmrghrqhhuihhssehrohgslhgvrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: if8e14258:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7C0A918C0067; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 22:43:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: A0SBu-oedW3g Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:41:00 +0900 From: vimanuelt To: "Roger Marquis" , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bstgG0L3Tz474d X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:202.12.124.0/24, country:AU] Yes, I see your point. While both involve system administration, managin= g a server is fundamentally different from managing a laptop. The requir= ements, usage patterns, and priorities vary considerably. Since my persp= ective is shaped by laptop use, I will respectfully step back from the c= onversation. I'll leave you with an aside. Note: This is a tangential aside and not essential to the main argument.= Feel free to skip it.=20 Changing the service model would necessarily require adjustments elsewhe= re in the system. One area that would demand particular attention is the= init framework. This, it must be made clear. What was not stated explic= itly is that revamping bsdrc would almost certainly be necessary in orde= r to support and reinforce the proposed layered service model. At presen= t, the FreeBSD init system depends on a loosely ordered sequence of shel= l scripts. It provides limited support for formal dependency tracking. T= here are no enforced boundaries separating system-level, administrator-m= anaged, and user-defined services. To support a layered startup structur= e with well-defined privilege separation and reliable ordering, the init= system itself would need to be restructured. A strict hierarchy, it wou= ld be required. Vendors too might welcome such a model, since it offers = cleaner integration points and more predictable behaviour during system = bring-up. In the revised model, each service is assigned to a specific layer accor= ding to its role and scope. The base layer includes services delivered w= ith the FreeBSD base system and resides in /etc/rc.d. These services are= maintained by the operating system and form the foundation on which eve= rything else depends. The local layer includes services installed by the= system administrator or vendor, usually from the ports collection or pa= ckage repository, and are located in /usr/local/etc/rc.d. The user layer= consists of session-specific services, owned and configured by the indi= vidual user, and stored in writable locations such as ~/.config/rc.d or = ~/.rc.d. The init system, under this model, brings up each layer in sequence. The= base services are initialised first, then local services, and finally u= ser services. This order, it enforces trust boundaries. It ensures that = core functionality is established before anything optional or user-scope= d is allowed to execute. It makes the startup process not only more pred= ictable, but also more defensible. To support this structure, each service would include a corresponding me= tadata file. This file, conventionally named service.rcmeta, is not a re= placement for the shell script itself but a declarative descriptor of th= e service=E2=80=99s role, requirements, and constraints. It specifies th= e layer the service belongs to. It defines which user or group the servi= ce should run under. It indicates whether the service is one-shot or sup= ervised, and under what conditions it should be started, such as on boot= , on login, or in response to a network event. It includes startup and s= hutdown timeouts. It may require the service to run inside a jail, a chr= oot environment, or a sandbox. It declares whether the service is restar= table or idempotent. It defines where logs should be written. It can als= o specify environment variables or dependency values to be injected at r= untime. The purpose of this metadata is to allow the system to construct and val= idate a complete service graph before execution begins. It gives adminis= trators the ability to verify dependencies and detect misconfigurations = early. For package maintainers, it offers a portable and self-documentin= g way to describe service behaviour. For users, it provides safety and c= ontrol without compromising the rest of the system. This structure also introduces meaningful improvements to system securit= y. By clearly separating layers and responsibilities, the system can def= ine and enforce trust boundaries. User services are unable to interfere = with administrator-managed services. Local services cannot override or d= isrupt base system components. Each layer is constrained to its scope, w= hich makes the system more resilient against misconfiguration and harder= to compromise through privilege escalation. Metadata enforcement further strengthens this boundary. If a user-level = service attempts to launch before its dependencies are met=E2=80=94for e= xample, before the network stack is ready=E2=80=94it is deferred. If a l= ocal service depends on a daemon in the base layer, that dependency must= be explicitly declared. Cyclical dependencies are detected and rejected= at compile time. The service tree, it becomes deterministic. For desktop users, this structure enables a long-requested feature: reli= able and supervised per-user services. Background processes such as encr= yption agents, file sync daemons, and session services can be declared a= nd managed by the user without any need for elevated privileges. If a se= rvice crashes, it can be restarted. If it misbehaves, it can be isolated= , killed, and logged. The configuration lives entirely in the user=E2=80= =99s home directory. There is no need to modify global paths like /usr/l= ocal/etc to install or manage something that only one user needs. Support for graphical environments becomes smoother and more robust. Way= land compositors, notification daemons, user message buses, and related = components can be started automatically, in correct order, with clean bo= undaries. It reduces friction during login, and it opens the door to mor= e complete desktop session management. Administrators benefit as well. Services are consistent in structure and= purpose. Startup semantics become understandable and predictable. Logs = can be tied directly to service state. For vendors, the environment beco= mes safer to extend and easier to debug. For users, the system becomes m= ore usable, more resilient, and more responsive to their needs. In this model, FreeBSD remains true to itself. It does not sacrifice its= clarity or simplicity. Instead, it evolves with intention, refining the= architecture where necessary while preserving the principles that defin= e it. The system becomes structured rather than ad hoc, layered rather t= han flat, and secure without becoming restrictive. This direction builds= on what FreeBSD has always done well, though it may reflect the priorit= ies of someone approaching it from a laptop user's point of view. - Vic On Thu, Jul 31, 2025, at 10:24, Roger Marquis wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jul 2025, vimanuelt wrote: >> ... the current architectural assumptions underpinning FreeBSD?s pack= age >> management model. The practice of overloading a single tool, namely p= kg, to >> manage both the base system and third-party software introduces seman= tic >> ambiguity, violates long-standing UNIX separation-of-concerns princip= les, > > A single pkg command for both base and third-party packages would not = be > a problem so much as a feature for 3 reasons: 1) it has a long track > record of working in Linux, 2) it facilitates 'distroless' and 'minima= l' > base and jails which, like Linux containers, are much desired as they > reduce the attack surface and minimize pkg update overhead, and 3) yet > another package command would be confusing and create unnecessary > maintenance overhead. > > For those worried about recursive deletes, removing essential base > packages with a '-F' flag (force base too) and/or '-RR' (recurse base > too) could potentially limit unintentional dangerous actions. Either > way it would IMO be simpler and more intuitive if all pkg flags were > base-aware rather than requiring a different command with a slightly > different set of flags. > > Bottom line: FreeBSD's current inability to create a minimal base, much > less minimal jails, is a HUGE USABILITY GAP that makes the OS > problematic to spec in appliances and IoT much less jails. Facilitati= ng > security updates and enabling minimal distributions are critical to > FreeBSD staying viable as an OS. I say this as a security analyst who > spends a large portion of every working day trying to help engineering > and operations patch tens of thousands of unnecessarily > vulnerability-ridden systems. > > Roger Marquis From nobody Thu Jul 31 18:08:25 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btHBr0H70z62sXV for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:08:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com (mail-wm1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btHBq1D4hz3fD4 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:08:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=VUDQ4fz4; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grahamperrin@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::329 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grahamperrin@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4589968e001so7691945e9.0 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:08:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1753985307; x=1754590107; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from :content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date :message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yUMlxUpoi/No/0IPhUjnMCWD9STUFC3zajWnruSJkhM=; b=VUDQ4fz46B1+J3bazXtmaypVy1M63RjSqjHNT23ybE+7xYt7EHU4KlX4ldXr3NiFlt TFrfr6fMVxex26yTm94fYqGrZX1rujeTrj/+wUPPNW19dazdBmeg90ig9aoUVWdk94Vz h+8eerlOb8gyYXR3Wke4PleFu+wzgkKTJpiEizYumltHro9Jfe4xHPbLk+EOi3gjMp+f Z1OeAeNZ9d0xpDYxowRQ8QRUxX8BySqCRu40Oj9KNYQpALbkw45afKZpl+Q/uKk0xP5H pqqtN7zkXwuHJbcmiKt/oxDuKyjTX4X1JwWL4geKrTgq7TIWTPV/lkZphGuFfRO7Flxc E/jg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753985307; x=1754590107; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from :content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date :message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=yUMlxUpoi/No/0IPhUjnMCWD9STUFC3zajWnruSJkhM=; b=i49jk5UFj2fUPZUupoJy6ymJGcUofhSDQku/Wp6hNLZVS5RfnmqKZSHHVAA4KPiFoe qU7bRQeBCt1U04d6J/EpY8apw93KGRtkeNathi5AQFlam4TL2UFbEAPFxmS85upeDCAN KJnP9IeUyOE8FQ2G8byFaVHbDPptrh28dsBdA1dx4jmPzd2aWJzCIoNUz62ueu/JEufa EixUiWGU/ANki958Z9M4PsKeNNO5/djovyRxcsbOKS48+EgWDirAkVmqYfyweSphMzVW TGlpDFfGAS21gCZuY0dGytf88gL2J10L4EpN7RtX1hyxtIfNNoy4ahlcNuaR8pzfeZnb rGTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz6ypbvW1EkIEId6cVqnYsor23NLC1igrQLlrxcMSPGotAGHyhB iGKfYai0cR+m0+U/LjIu8Vq6IbdiggoWsmVTyKvUYVTv+TY2DIif5SZcYo/6Hg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvigpqpe1RLSHBTRQnk+TVrPUPHV6L2or4t7Eu/jBGHqLZqMzoZm/O2x8+M1Le lAz8FdtIotwQf5FQDhL9M+8diQrmg6Rh3rBVsVbZXwQWhYDeluFUtR+ur+fLpeJIK/wzA+Jz6ey Wo1sspDtWf2xhH4Aplqe92g56pqdSaBIwH7uhL/ouhuJTQG3dWDgEIWvm+A90Y6B7kT691apCtR 8ekOrXICNpPRsTuNCLif7/RYWUdjLyo/wP/sDP8SvJLa9ixP8B3lOJTqhftsQ9gwO4XKCVKInin Nd3xUH1aFdw0EpOxQR5ld7iR3FTEKSFQy8seqXXwqrPuffAlKiID9LGuQKBEQvanBlinNqs4K8J ipczvA0hOUD3E8K9+mGYIe7Mmw7ZwJjN1oj3gcxKwLptqQOzjEA+jqcMtVY2M X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFzlN4NyKrwcw0AeDZpnUXyhI8dhUGP2p67yLThjXNL18PCIjdWdJgYvrCuUjmBJ9uyxiEAwA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:871a:b0:456:2ac6:ccc3 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4589ef0b58dmr30802895e9.25.1753985306670; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (host-89-241-205-78.as13285.net. [89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-45895377708sm71844855e9.8.2025.07.31.11.08.25 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 19:08:25 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[grahamperrin]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::329:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btHBq1D4hz3fD4 X-Spamd-Bar: --- I'm aware of twenty threads across five FreeBSD lists and elsewhere. I'm not a fan of proliferation. I'll continue under vermaden's Reddit post (one of the twenty). Four or more lists feels spammy. Amongst the basic rules: > No posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists, and only to 2 > when a clear and obvious need to post to both lists exists. … From nobody Thu Jul 31 23:33:42 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btQQ658Tjz63BQ4 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 23:33:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btQQ55XSwz3F50 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 23:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b="I/OI6Myh"; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2025 01:33:42 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: PKGBASE Poudriere To: freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754004822; bh=NwA9XB6hym7tZERCDocF6+h8x5VknV1XWBVZV2oveAY=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=I/OI6MyhlBA0v3lc2ex4BWXlFZcQjuMLcsToVDC/J0UF54a8XqVwwVa/ItMrloGvl tEL/fKTonQeZ1MnFdfD4/mdN1a9nrJBVH6nRIY6wPPXPNEMTMPoHvC3HxBAEzwcrTN ciqGsQXlyNBUnCKaK+xJViKoSwlKBZXqy/9Ztrlw= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.52 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.987]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.940]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[217.74.67.49:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btQQ55XSwz3F50 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Hi. Is there some more or less official or not way to use Poudriere to build PKGBASE packages? There are lots of guide on the net ... but nothing really well documented and explained. Thanks, vermaden From nobody Fri Aug 1 07:07:15 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btcTT4TMhz63ZP3 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 07:07:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mad@madpilot.net) Received: from vogon.madpilot.net (vogon.madpilot.net [159.69.1.99]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btcTT22hbz3qSn for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 07:07:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mad@madpilot.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from localhost (mail [IPv6:fd5c:5351:d272::3]) by vogon.madpilot.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btcTL1BNfzLkqG; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 09:07:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=madpilot.net; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:in-reply-to :from:from:content-language:references:subject:subject:date:date :message-id:received; s=cyq4qetkgngm; t=1754032036; x= 1755846437; bh=aNeaL133AHEI5j8EyZdXmqVYFy/dL8E9OM7L2ODUe8k=; b=M qLkHaMB6G0v16zSTdRXOEJ0+LJUK8ypFU7SqRI7a2hs1Gj+ryFyfrNsfsgb7CvnV QltjUGj4MzazbRzsxqFrD8O68JU3+HZQfUox8UZwP/Q43mvdXDgNSmzZUWLHajVk z13EH9mFxRXLUJ7cn0qvHf3p72zUi3HIrB2FRwUwPZwsDqEf8upsMeD/iQWYkNd9 S0B2x1bflIH0Qm+J8AJDYVzdPF2HvPZh5zupfLAOLCwkVgxTR1Z/ww5OArdKF4bv 34+pPaKXT5VbQHxhBdLIwwbEBT6SyVaBs1RPSQeYKzjIVCxXQrqwTayPjYSD2upg +VXx4I2NKwlsXbHUiqlEQ== Received: from vogon.madpilot.net ([IPv6:fd5c:5351:d272::3]) by localhost (vogon.madpilot.net [IPv6:fd5c:5351:d272::3]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP id Evwmrj1VS8r5; Fri, 1 Aug 2025 09:07:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <8d19c099-73ac-49e7-913f-d8c87d2446de@madpilot.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 09:07:15 +0200 Subject: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere To: vermaden , freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Guido Falsi Autocrypt: addr=mad@madpilot.net; keydata= xsBNBE+G+l0BCADi/WBQ0aRJfnE7LBPsM0G3m/m3Yx7OPu4iYFvS84xawmRHtCNjWIntsxuX fptkmEo3Rsw816WUrek8dxoUAYdHd+EcpBcnnDzfDH5LW/TZ4gbrFezrHPdRp7wdxi23GN80 qPwHEwXuF0X4Wy5V0OO8B6VT/nA0ADYnBDhXS52HGIJ/GCUjgqJn+phDTdCFLvrSFdmgx4Wl c0W5Z1p5cmDF9l8L/hc959AeyNf7I9dXnjekGM9gVv7UDUYzCifR3U8T0fnfdMmS8NeI9NC+ wuREpRO4lKOkTnj9TtQJRiptlhcHQiAlG1cFqs7EQo57Tqq6cxD1FycZJLuC32bGbgalABEB AAHNHkd1aWRvIEZhbHNpIDxtYWRAbWFkcGlsb3QubmV0PsLAeQQTAQgAIwIbAwIeAQIXgAUL CQgHAwUVCgkICwQWAgMBBQJS79AgAhkBAAoJEBrmhg5Wy9KTc0kH/RO64ORBlTbTHaUaOj8F Je5O5NU2Pt9Cyt5ZWBRvxntr1zPTJGKRPS9ihlIfqT4ZvEngQGp57EUyFbCpI0UWasTerImM tt5WACnGmCzUTB39UXx8Oy4b1EgWeTJQ747e/F1mQLXTNa6ijRBE9fYlTb4gAkPN88/wVV9v 3PZozKLTg16ghBzHM/P7Lk8L7clPEZChX1FTa/6eSt3nvzfCuTMZbBPJF/ph+q1KyPqRgVfh tyhu5dvgMoPz/ni41IfeSrkJTD5RXzdyGR9q4Z1NYeBsLkRjC4LxKAP5KqUsvlOUjKvO1byj ApYdMarol+IGkaSk9e3zVYAJkWKjn/ni8XbOwU0EUxB7QQEQAKFhrDceoPdK/IHDSmoj6SQY isvM7VdhcleS7E9DoEAVt7yMbf6HbbMVTTY6ckvwTWQssywLBXNVqxgc4WLJjzfUhgef+WE7 5M3+WFYlOVQLGZY/zEVgma1raYnOHNAOzeHLDmEXjbZP6vGAeDyBbGfQPpE7qGYZ7ubeT3Xw QO+PklcCrvOPj2ZPcAxGNS2xVU/LzONqCrJqLMJSIcCdsbiSP4G5PnDFHtMokaTY6OEr8OEQ fOAerhcHUa/z7Uu8YtmaqKH+QGkE/WEgaRqSiTnv0JOTD+DxehaqvoKPPZ++2NpCZMHB2i6A /xifmQwEiIjEXtcueBRzkNUQkxhqZyS13SrhocL9ydtaVPBzZatAEjUDDEJmAMLVFs45qfyh MiNapHJo2n3MW/E5omqCvEkDdWX/en3P7CK2TemeaDghMsgkNKax/z0wNo5UZCkOPOz0xpNi UilOVbkuezZZNg65741qee2lfXhQIaZ66yT7hphc/N/z3PIAtLeze4u1VR2EXAuZ2sWAdlKC NTlJMsaU/x70BV11Wd/ypnVzM68dfdQIIAj1iMFAD/lXGlEUmKXg5Ov2VQDlTntQoanCYrAg +8CttPzjrydgLZFq3hrtQmfc0se5yv1WHS69+BsUOG09RvvawUDZxUjW19kyeN9THaNRgow3 kSuArUp6zSmJABEBAAHCwF8EGAEIAAkFAlMQe0ECGwwACgkQGuaGDlbL0pMN5wgA4bCkX/qw EVC06ToeR6C2putmSWQMgpDaqrv65Hubo+QGmg2P4ewTYQQ4g6oYWS03qHxqVVWhKz7FjfrV +dH8qbCLfSgIcvdBha7ayGZVrsiuMLKGbw36fcmkZPpSDOfHcP0XH8Z+u9CWj0xUkTxAlZ/7 i6gYSUpG2JWNtdmE/X8VVEyXusCLwy0K0BI60A/4dRTIX3C4QKrJ3ZbUXegz70ynjHf+lQMZ 9IZKASoRMuS5FozPQh6abvmwZEPdf5I9riUElzvHrqJ8Bx0t3Pujdoth+yNHpnBxrtO8LkQd rQ58P0SwcaIX33T2U9pG8bhu5YVR88FQ8OQ0cEsPBpDncg== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btcTT22hbz3qSn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:159.69.0.0/16, country:DE] List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org On 8/1/25 01:33, vermaden wrote: > Hi. > > Is there some more or less official or not way to use Poudriere to build PKGBASE packages? > > There are lots of guide on the net ... but nothing really well documented and explained. > > Thanks, > vermaden > Short version: poudriere jail -c -j 15amd64 -a amd64 -b -B -m src=/usr/src -K GENERIC to build using sources present in /usr/src the -K is required, and multiple ones can be specified, you will get multiple kernel packages. You should find package sets in "/poudriere/data/images/15amd64-repo/FreeBSD:15:amd64/" (path depends on the OS version you compiled obviously) This will also leave you a poudriere jail built from the sources indicated. I use sources from /usr/src so I can have full control of what I get with git, I sometimes use local patches from a personal "forked" repo. If you want to build fetching sources directly (requires git installed), for example for 14.3-STABLE: poudriere -jail -c -j 143amd66rr -a amd64 -b -m git+https -v stable/14 Which will perform a shallow clone, default configuration should use the official project mirrors. Looks like in this case a kernel config is not explicitly required, should build GENERIC by defaut, if you want to use a different kernel config you should pass it with -K like the above example. I hope this helps, anyway your best resource about this is the poudriere-jail(8) man page. -- Guido Falsi From nobody Fri Aug 1 22:03:30 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bv0Mc720Cz63B2g for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 22:03:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bv0Mc36rCz3MCs for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 22:03:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2025 00:03:30 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere To: Guido Falsi , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <8d19c099-73ac-49e7-913f-d8c87d2446de@madpilot.net> References: <8d19c099-73ac-49e7-913f-d8c87d2446de@madpilot.net> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754085811; bh=AkCXfHdLy8QydUIEFIfJGbKY7E8ECbEXQn0uIPEhphw=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=n8MaFe7Os0dcdQKjdChmFXueMMsRPrf5vGEl0vcQMosh1eTUyOKt/7RqMPgTie1WT 6lyIQ5zIddnOI2b/dYRfgx4Xd+eR3lV1rss9Rwh5PEjH+Nv5c+xld93QWRywngZE47 4/oCzj9nYAQWObSrlvg6eJPUPGBEFQCNBq7ml5dU= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bv0Mc36rCz3MCs X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Hi and thank You for reply. How do you update suck PKGBASE set? It does not use 'poudriere bulk' command at all to create and update that PKGBASE packages set? Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere Data: 2025-08-01 9:07 Nadawca: "Guido Falsi" <mad@madpilot.net> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>; freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org; > >> On 8/1/25 01:33, vermaden wrote: >> Hi. >> >> Is there some more or less official or not way to use >> Poudriere to build PKGBASE packages? >> >> There are lots of guide on the net ... but nothing >> really well documented and explained. >> >> Thanks, >> vermaden >> > > Short version: > > poudriere jail -c -j 15amd64 -a amd64 -b -B -m src=/usr/src -K GENERIC > > to build using sources present in /usr/src > > the -K is required, and multiple ones can be specified, > you will get multiple kernel packages. > > You should find package sets in > "/poudriere/data/images/15amd64-repo/FreeBSD:15:amd64/" > (path depends on the OS version you compiled obviously) > > This will also leave you a poudriere jail built from > the sources indicated. > > I use sources from /usr/src so I can have full control of what I get > with git, I sometimes use local patches from a personal "forked" repo. > > If you want to build fetching sources directly (requires > git installed), for example for 14.3-STABLE: > > poudriere -jail -c -j 143amd66rr -a amd64 -b -m git+https -v stable/14 > > > Which will perform a shallow clone, default configuration > should use the official project mirrors. > > Looks like in this case a kernel config is not explicitly required, > should build GENERIC by defaut, if you want to use a different kernel > config you should pass it with -K like the above example. > > > I hope this helps, anyway your best resource about this is the > poudriere-jail(8) man page. > > -- > Guido Falsi From nobody Fri Aug 1 22:44:45 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bv1HL5WJnz63D7y for ; 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a3397e1c756511cc320fe333e8d3541c; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 22:44:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 15:44:45 -0700 To: vermaden@interia.pl, FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) References: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[interia.pl,freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.64.84:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.64.84:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bv1HK1T2Bz3RJq X-Spamd-Bar: --- vermaden wrote on Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2025 22:03:30 UTC : > How do you update suck PKGBASE set? >=20 > It does not use 'poudriere bulk' command at all to > create and update that PKGBASE packages set? As I understand it . . . Creating or updating a local PkgBase repository via poudriere is an extra step after building/installing/updating the jail that uses what was built/installed/updated in that jail, if the command line option requesting such was supplied. Also: the base-package files are not stored with the port-package files: 2 separate repositories are involved if I understand right. Per jail PkgBase repositories, no involvement of /usr/ports/ as the source for what it built. Bulk builds only deal with the port-package repository related materials, as I understand, using /usr/ports/ . > Regards, > vermaden >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Temat: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere >> Data: 2025-08-01 9:07 >> Nadawca: "Guido Falsi" <mad@madpilot.net> >> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>; = freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org;=20 >>=20 >> >=20 >> >> On 8/1/25 01:33, vermaden wrote: >> >> Hi. >> >>=20 >> >> Is there some more or less official or not way to use >> >> Poudriere to build PKGBASE packages? >> >>=20 >> >> There are lots of guide on the net ... but nothing >> >> really well documented and explained. >> >>=20 >> >> Thanks, >> >> vermaden >> >>=20 >> >=20 >> > Short version: >> >=20 >> > poudriere jail -c -j 15amd64 -a amd64 -b -B -m src=3D/usr/src -K = GENERIC >> >=20 >> > to build using sources present in /usr/src >> >=20 >> > the -K is required, and multiple ones can be specified, >> > you will get multiple kernel packages. >> >=20 >> > You should find package sets in=20 >> > "/poudriere/data/images/15amd64-repo/FreeBSD:15:amd64/" >> > (path depends on the OS version you compiled obviously) >> >=20 >> > This will also leave you a poudriere jail built from >> > the sources indicated. >> >=20 >> > I use sources from /usr/src so I can have full control of what I = get=20 >> > with git, I sometimes use local patches from a personal "forked" = repo. >> >=20 >> > If you want to build fetching sources directly (requires >> > git installed), for example for 14.3-STABLE: >> >=20 >> > poudriere -jail -c -j 143amd66rr -a amd64 -b -m git+https -v = stable/14 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > Which will perform a shallow clone, default configuration >> > should use the official project mirrors. >> >=20 >> > Looks like in this case a kernel config is not explicitly required,=20= >> > should build GENERIC by defaut, if you want to use a different = kernel=20 >> > config you should pass it with -K like the above example. >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > I hope this helps, anyway your best resource about this is the=20 >> > poudriere-jail(8) man page. >=20 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Fri Aug 1 23:12:41 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bv1vK2c51z63FDK for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 23:12:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bv1vJ6Xn6z3Vbw for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 23:12:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2025 01:12:41 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere To: Mark Millard , "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754089962; bh=yjiksl3ApoUklg6FdFWSFB7Qve1DL7CFEPrHNubIteI=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Jts1SUg2/9eW/KodyqAQrGqNK83fAW260OZ68Grgo9bbuXzdTfESnQa1NBfeHO9zP q+XRkXEKWkjFORv/VULpeKQNblwT1d+8l6BEHoWkcUy7znAiKfCJDq4xARUqaPVtEB Khpv9J2oHqMU2Jdge0l+5NjuTNQIFc/FkPuN3RE4= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bv1vJ6Xn6z3Vbw X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Thanks. The way I 'do' it right now is this: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2023/12/09/personal-freebsd-pkgbase-update-server/ To summarize: // 1ST RUN builder # mkdir -p /var/tmp/pkgbase/repo builder # cd /usr/src builder # make REPODIR=/var/tmp/pkgbase/repo buildworld buildkernel builder # make REPODIR=/var/tmp/pkgbase/repo packages // UPDATES builder # mkdir -p /var/tmp/pkgbase/repo builder # cd /usr/src builder # make REPODIR=/var/tmp/pkgbase/repo buildworld buildkernel builder # make REPODIR=/var/tmp/pkgbase/repo update-packages To be honest - I do not need to use Poudriere for this - but I was just curious. If that is more then OK - then I can omit Poudriere for this. Thanks, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere Data: 2025-08-02 0:45 Nadawca: "Mark Millard" <marklmi@yahoo.com> Adresat: vermaden@interia.pl; FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org; > >> vermaden wrote on > Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2025 22:03:30 UTC : > >> How do you update suck PKGBASE set? >> >> It does not use 'poudriere bulk' command at all to >> create and update that PKGBASE packages set? > > As I understand it . . . > > Creating or updating a local PkgBase repository > via poudriere is an extra step after > building/installing/updating the jail that uses > what was built/installed/updated in that jail, > if the command line option requesting such was > supplied. > > Also: the base-package files are not stored with > the port-package files: 2 separate repositories > are involved if I understand right. Per jail > PkgBase repositories, no involvement of /usr/ports/ > as the source for what it built. > > Bulk builds only deal with the port-package > repository related materials, as I understand, > using /usr/ports/ . > >> Regards, >> vermaden >> >> >> >> >>> Temat: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere >>> Data: 2025-08-01 9:07 >>> Nadawca: "Guido Falsi" <mad@madpilot.net> >>> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>; freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org; >>> >>>> >>>>> On 8/1/25 01:33, vermaden wrote: >>>>> Hi. >>>>> >>>>> Is there some more or less official or not way to use >>>>> Poudriere to build PKGBASE packages? >>>>> >>>>> There are lots of guide on the net ... but nothing >>>>> really well documented and explained. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> vermaden >>>>> >>>> >>>> Short version: >>>> >>>> poudriere jail -c -j 15amd64 -a amd64 -b -B -m src=/usr/src -K GENERIC >>>> >>>> to build using sources present in /usr/src >>>> >>>> the -K is required, and multiple ones can be specified, >>>> you will get multiple kernel packages. >>>> >>>> You should find package sets in >>>> "/poudriere/data/images/15amd64-repo/FreeBSD:15:amd64/" >>>> (path depends on the OS version you compiled obviously) >>>> >>>> This will also leave you a poudriere jail built from >>>> the sources indicated. >>>> >>>> I use sources from /usr/src so I can have full control of what I get >>>> with git, I sometimes use local patches from a personal "forked" repo. >>>> >>>> If you want to build fetching sources directly (requires >>>> git installed), for example for 14.3-STABLE: >>>> >>>> poudriere -jail -c -j 143amd66rr -a amd64 -b -m git+https -v stable/14 >>>> >>>> >>>> Which will perform a shallow clone, default configuration >>>> should use the official project mirrors. >>>> >>>> Looks like in this case a kernel config is not explicitly required, >>>> should build GENERIC by defaut, if you want to use a different kernel >>>> config you should pass it with -K like the above example. >>>> >>>> >>>> I hope this helps, anyway your best resource about this is the >>>> poudriere-jail(8) man page. >> > > === > Mark Millard > marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Sat Aug 2 07:30:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bvDyM4pvHz63jSJ for ; 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Sat, 2 Aug 2025 09:30:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <7c067938-0545-4f31-a0cb-c1b8d942aba1@madpilot.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2025 09:30:56 +0200 Subject: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere To: vermaden , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" References: <8d19c099-73ac-49e7-913f-d8c87d2446de@madpilot.net> Content-Language: en-US From: Guido Falsi Autocrypt: addr=mad@madpilot.net; keydata= xsBNBE+G+l0BCADi/WBQ0aRJfnE7LBPsM0G3m/m3Yx7OPu4iYFvS84xawmRHtCNjWIntsxuX fptkmEo3Rsw816WUrek8dxoUAYdHd+EcpBcnnDzfDH5LW/TZ4gbrFezrHPdRp7wdxi23GN80 qPwHEwXuF0X4Wy5V0OO8B6VT/nA0ADYnBDhXS52HGIJ/GCUjgqJn+phDTdCFLvrSFdmgx4Wl c0W5Z1p5cmDF9l8L/hc959AeyNf7I9dXnjekGM9gVv7UDUYzCifR3U8T0fnfdMmS8NeI9NC+ wuREpRO4lKOkTnj9TtQJRiptlhcHQiAlG1cFqs7EQo57Tqq6cxD1FycZJLuC32bGbgalABEB AAHNHkd1aWRvIEZhbHNpIDxtYWRAbWFkcGlsb3QubmV0PsLAeQQTAQgAIwIbAwIeAQIXgAUL CQgHAwUVCgkICwQWAgMBBQJS79AgAhkBAAoJEBrmhg5Wy9KTc0kH/RO64ORBlTbTHaUaOj8F Je5O5NU2Pt9Cyt5ZWBRvxntr1zPTJGKRPS9ihlIfqT4ZvEngQGp57EUyFbCpI0UWasTerImM tt5WACnGmCzUTB39UXx8Oy4b1EgWeTJQ747e/F1mQLXTNa6ijRBE9fYlTb4gAkPN88/wVV9v 3PZozKLTg16ghBzHM/P7Lk8L7clPEZChX1FTa/6eSt3nvzfCuTMZbBPJF/ph+q1KyPqRgVfh tyhu5dvgMoPz/ni41IfeSrkJTD5RXzdyGR9q4Z1NYeBsLkRjC4LxKAP5KqUsvlOUjKvO1byj ApYdMarol+IGkaSk9e3zVYAJkWKjn/ni8XbOwU0EUxB7QQEQAKFhrDceoPdK/IHDSmoj6SQY isvM7VdhcleS7E9DoEAVt7yMbf6HbbMVTTY6ckvwTWQssywLBXNVqxgc4WLJjzfUhgef+WE7 5M3+WFYlOVQLGZY/zEVgma1raYnOHNAOzeHLDmEXjbZP6vGAeDyBbGfQPpE7qGYZ7ubeT3Xw QO+PklcCrvOPj2ZPcAxGNS2xVU/LzONqCrJqLMJSIcCdsbiSP4G5PnDFHtMokaTY6OEr8OEQ fOAerhcHUa/z7Uu8YtmaqKH+QGkE/WEgaRqSiTnv0JOTD+DxehaqvoKPPZ++2NpCZMHB2i6A /xifmQwEiIjEXtcueBRzkNUQkxhqZyS13SrhocL9ydtaVPBzZatAEjUDDEJmAMLVFs45qfyh MiNapHJo2n3MW/E5omqCvEkDdWX/en3P7CK2TemeaDghMsgkNKax/z0wNo5UZCkOPOz0xpNi UilOVbkuezZZNg65741qee2lfXhQIaZ66yT7hphc/N/z3PIAtLeze4u1VR2EXAuZ2sWAdlKC NTlJMsaU/x70BV11Wd/ypnVzM68dfdQIIAj1iMFAD/lXGlEUmKXg5Ov2VQDlTntQoanCYrAg +8CttPzjrydgLZFq3hrtQmfc0se5yv1WHS69+BsUOG09RvvawUDZxUjW19kyeN9THaNRgow3 kSuArUp6zSmJABEBAAHCwF8EGAEIAAkFAlMQe0ECGwwACgkQGuaGDlbL0pMN5wgA4bCkX/qw EVC06ToeR6C2putmSWQMgpDaqrv65Hubo+QGmg2P4ewTYQQ4g6oYWS03qHxqVVWhKz7FjfrV +dH8qbCLfSgIcvdBha7ayGZVrsiuMLKGbw36fcmkZPpSDOfHcP0XH8Z+u9CWj0xUkTxAlZ/7 i6gYSUpG2JWNtdmE/X8VVEyXusCLwy0K0BI60A/4dRTIX3C4QKrJ3ZbUXegz70ynjHf+lQMZ 9IZKASoRMuS5FozPQh6abvmwZEPdf5I9riUElzvHrqJ8Bx0t3Pujdoth+yNHpnBxrtO8LkQd rQ58P0SwcaIX33T2U9pG8bhu5YVR88FQ8OQ0cEsPBpDncg== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bvDyM2DnNz3LDj X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:159.69.0.0/16, country:DE] List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org On 8/2/25 00:03, vermaden wrote: > Hi and thank You for reply. > > How do you update suck PKGBASE set? poudriere jail -j 15amd64 -u -b -j is the jail you want to update, -u means update, -b build. A new set of packages will be present in the same place. This command fetches updated sources (via git for example, or copying whatever it finds in the directory you pointed it to if using such configuration) One note, poudriere, when using git, by default will perform a shallow clone, to save time/bandwidth, so be careful if directly using git with such a clone. There are options to force a full git clone, but for simple usage that's overkill. > > It does not use 'poudriere bulk' command at all to > create and update that PKGBASE packages set? bulk is used to build ports based on a jail and create a set of ports packages. That's a different thing. If using own pkgbase you will have two separate pkg repositories, one for base packages and one for ports packages. -- Guido Falsi From nobody Sat Aug 2 08:14:16 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bvFwB1bvtz62m3X for ; Sat, 02 Aug 2025 08:14:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bvFwB0ldJz3PS0; Sat, 02 Aug 2025 08:14:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754122458; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=NStJteDqT9YL8nkmpgFoiFND6u0C+NllbjIVlYFfm4o=; b=GKMBaBnxyNyr/7WR1GmyNkmxpAk8nFXydJptx8oiGxA8saX76gKqaodZZ4G/tpWkcnCqVK 1888WpaNa43e4Ok5uXmrmPOKrnSWd/Ls45Plkw1cWQ2AAIO+VoHYtoUB8C61uNwVSvaZkZ fvrROET8xNzmJXNYZdR48bHNC3tco1eILHgBbKryN99wdIoxU+jFPUx0EmgRESrJNr6E/N Eakwu5d3kAuk07ZjeJwEXYPeS1SnstlLovs7WzmdYuHzJgPSfn6BFjPz0UZGgY7E/CU5pX Xgje/w7xq0gMmYGPrcp+LepkgEoGK/TunmswNt5Xdv21jyJ8JO3ZE/fN1EqnyQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754122458; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=NStJteDqT9YL8nkmpgFoiFND6u0C+NllbjIVlYFfm4o=; b=LLsy2lbeFvJpkVrM6Nxe3tuGwLQcZoTPbWJqbn0axI2fc8Vl+svF4+4ZSrAxQCyttAYlb7 aZBoMJqd05ZbWTFesVzX/nqIuWlsIN7APwM0v9IE3Xk6BsVY33FIZEjbZyRgvaiYnH+uqu 14wIqmE6sIkkcf7e79YtQIYHxxAqB6QatNHJ2pBDzhEGViVraSLr1cmevozOArFZxXyXOW nBiAYbndt7iErlSX6GiQMUA59HPJyl0JDYxDtbf0cgFZA2WPxRDJ7etMijY+6e+C0URpRh N2QIEv+Hb7kARNKpM6oohlkRQ8tCEV4rc8LbtNGcaz5/7XBZUqoxTNIIeea3Mg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754122458; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=m5TONn8IM6TPCcVBukIEQiKAC5QZprOJA5/ePwWZPQnsn8gIvcLGfr2DS2aqFDvuvqYhh6 McZLsnJQjt6+I/XqrMWGn7tVXeqEPGm8h2EMQQVeN0WwmsHabZyTstKDqUEvMMxIy5ZL5X 7Lf2JtoBJ6ZDvnc1v9glIxnS3g805L3e+sxHiTNVA8FjiusB+ggU2Mna+n7JeKgZwP8E0y nYVNRj1c5PhspEFgVor90oJWNE9Hxf/Iv38TTsXNCcKSMsYc1i1Xrv3JkJG/GLQjuNyUMa Z208afRYXZouN1BNo9Ki9jIYfVQ3a9M6PAIp15+pdSLPjQ9WaEveTPpwIaly4A== Received: from ltc.des.dev (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:c54:bed0:922e:16ff:fef1:acef]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bvFw96G7XzBnc; Sat, 02 Aug 2025 08:14:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AA4A41214C; Sat, 02 Aug 2025 10:14:16 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Guido Falsi Cc: vermaden , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere In-Reply-To: <7c067938-0545-4f31-a0cb-c1b8d942aba1@madpilot.net> (Guido Falsi's message of "Sat, 2 Aug 2025 09:30:56 +0200") References: <8d19c099-73ac-49e7-913f-d8c87d2446de@madpilot.net> <7c067938-0545-4f31-a0cb-c1b8d942aba1@madpilot.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2025 10:14:16 +0200 Message-ID: <86wm7m6syv.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guido Falsi writes: > vermaden writes: > > How do you update suck PKGBASE set? > poudriere jail -j 15amd64 -u -b > > -j is the jail you want to update, -u means update, -b build. The -b option has no effect when updating a jail, poudriere will just do the right thing based on how the jail was originally created. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Sat Aug 2 12:28:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bvMYw1c57z632vB for ; Sat, 02 Aug 2025 12:28:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mad@madpilot.net) Received: from vogon.madpilot.net (vogon.madpilot.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:1c1c:11e5::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bvMYv5qSwz3mj0; Sat, 02 Aug 2025 12:28:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mad@madpilot.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from localhost (mail [IPv6:fd5c:5351:d272::3]) by vogon.madpilot.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bvMYk3mz5zLkqK; Sat, 02 Aug 2025 14:28:42 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=madpilot.net; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:in-reply-to :from:from:content-language:references:subject:subject:date:date :message-id:received; s=cyq4qetkgngm; t=1754137720; x= 1755952121; bh=LsebyfiVkQEGWCi5TGyeKojVfLOQQ5RZbV3YwQVdijs=; b=a mhnmhTYNVQpQT42dNAWR3Wyyfm1PVzeZXy0mwKG/zKOUllAiv44wjcl9JEvR2dgh tVJmIMONDLTAlRPbX8Rl1zkFS3hHsz1pTfreIuCMlUPYlmcEhx3UowedIibXQUxR 7aY6msj4mKvSXAWMJCFnRCchLYv2Q3/8m7h+3CQYYr0EGpXNbavRXEpP4dyqsJQg OnbsLDUdoTFx6NPiSYj5+ckgqlMEubrzv1pbvSB/Dl0FTtqADZnv0Un6sEymVF9x xz+ULwZGP5/B6aUGdh+jFw6veeCCh7gDvHFusCVBG7WyJ11S5NYO/2gpwCPDgO4N prY8WGc/NkKArExPe3oTg== Received: from vogon.madpilot.net ([IPv6:fd5c:5351:d272::3]) by localhost (vogon.madpilot.net [IPv6:fd5c:5351:d272::3]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP id D32p6fBFItx9; Sat, 2 Aug 2025 14:28:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <93425523-8b30-43b9-b7c0-238e779c1bb4@madpilot.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2025 14:28:39 +0200 Subject: Re: PKGBASE Poudriere To: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Cc: vermaden , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" References: <8d19c099-73ac-49e7-913f-d8c87d2446de@madpilot.net> <7c067938-0545-4f31-a0cb-c1b8d942aba1@madpilot.net> <86wm7m6syv.fsf@ltc.des.dev> Content-Language: en-US From: Guido Falsi Autocrypt: addr=mad@madpilot.net; keydata= xsBNBE+G+l0BCADi/WBQ0aRJfnE7LBPsM0G3m/m3Yx7OPu4iYFvS84xawmRHtCNjWIntsxuX fptkmEo3Rsw816WUrek8dxoUAYdHd+EcpBcnnDzfDH5LW/TZ4gbrFezrHPdRp7wdxi23GN80 qPwHEwXuF0X4Wy5V0OO8B6VT/nA0ADYnBDhXS52HGIJ/GCUjgqJn+phDTdCFLvrSFdmgx4Wl c0W5Z1p5cmDF9l8L/hc959AeyNf7I9dXnjekGM9gVv7UDUYzCifR3U8T0fnfdMmS8NeI9NC+ wuREpRO4lKOkTnj9TtQJRiptlhcHQiAlG1cFqs7EQo57Tqq6cxD1FycZJLuC32bGbgalABEB AAHNHkd1aWRvIEZhbHNpIDxtYWRAbWFkcGlsb3QubmV0PsLAeQQTAQgAIwIbAwIeAQIXgAUL CQgHAwUVCgkICwQWAgMBBQJS79AgAhkBAAoJEBrmhg5Wy9KTc0kH/RO64ORBlTbTHaUaOj8F Je5O5NU2Pt9Cyt5ZWBRvxntr1zPTJGKRPS9ihlIfqT4ZvEngQGp57EUyFbCpI0UWasTerImM tt5WACnGmCzUTB39UXx8Oy4b1EgWeTJQ747e/F1mQLXTNa6ijRBE9fYlTb4gAkPN88/wVV9v 3PZozKLTg16ghBzHM/P7Lk8L7clPEZChX1FTa/6eSt3nvzfCuTMZbBPJF/ph+q1KyPqRgVfh tyhu5dvgMoPz/ni41IfeSrkJTD5RXzdyGR9q4Z1NYeBsLkRjC4LxKAP5KqUsvlOUjKvO1byj ApYdMarol+IGkaSk9e3zVYAJkWKjn/ni8XbOwU0EUxB7QQEQAKFhrDceoPdK/IHDSmoj6SQY isvM7VdhcleS7E9DoEAVt7yMbf6HbbMVTTY6ckvwTWQssywLBXNVqxgc4WLJjzfUhgef+WE7 5M3+WFYlOVQLGZY/zEVgma1raYnOHNAOzeHLDmEXjbZP6vGAeDyBbGfQPpE7qGYZ7ubeT3Xw QO+PklcCrvOPj2ZPcAxGNS2xVU/LzONqCrJqLMJSIcCdsbiSP4G5PnDFHtMokaTY6OEr8OEQ fOAerhcHUa/z7Uu8YtmaqKH+QGkE/WEgaRqSiTnv0JOTD+DxehaqvoKPPZ++2NpCZMHB2i6A /xifmQwEiIjEXtcueBRzkNUQkxhqZyS13SrhocL9ydtaVPBzZatAEjUDDEJmAMLVFs45qfyh MiNapHJo2n3MW/E5omqCvEkDdWX/en3P7CK2TemeaDghMsgkNKax/z0wNo5UZCkOPOz0xpNi UilOVbkuezZZNg65741qee2lfXhQIaZ66yT7hphc/N/z3PIAtLeze4u1VR2EXAuZ2sWAdlKC NTlJMsaU/x70BV11Wd/ypnVzM68dfdQIIAj1iMFAD/lXGlEUmKXg5Ov2VQDlTntQoanCYrAg +8CttPzjrydgLZFq3hrtQmfc0se5yv1WHS69+BsUOG09RvvawUDZxUjW19kyeN9THaNRgow3 kSuArUp6zSmJABEBAAHCwF8EGAEIAAkFAlMQe0ECGwwACgkQGuaGDlbL0pMN5wgA4bCkX/qw EVC06ToeR6C2putmSWQMgpDaqrv65Hubo+QGmg2P4ewTYQQ4g6oYWS03qHxqVVWhKz7FjfrV +dH8qbCLfSgIcvdBha7ayGZVrsiuMLKGbw36fcmkZPpSDOfHcP0XH8Z+u9CWj0xUkTxAlZ/7 i6gYSUpG2JWNtdmE/X8VVEyXusCLwy0K0BI60A/4dRTIX3C4QKrJ3ZbUXegz70ynjHf+lQMZ 9IZKASoRMuS5FozPQh6abvmwZEPdf5I9riUElzvHrqJ8Bx0t3Pujdoth+yNHpnBxrtO8LkQd rQ58P0SwcaIX33T2U9pG8bhu5YVR88FQ8OQ0cEsPBpDncg== In-Reply-To: <86wm7m6syv.fsf@ltc.des.dev> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bvMYv5qSwz3mj0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE] List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org On 8/2/25 10:14, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Guido Falsi writes: >> vermaden writes: >>> How do you update suck PKGBASE set? >> poudriere jail -j 15amd64 -u -b >> >> -j is the jail you want to update, -u means update, -b build. > > The -b option has no effect when updating a jail, poudriere will just do > the right thing based on how the jail was originally created. > Thanks! Good to know. I was using that out of habit! -- Guido Falsi