From nobody Mon Aug 4 00:05:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bwGzn6dYRz63HGd for ; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 00:05:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic.asd.mail.yahoo.com (sonic304-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.206]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bwGzl6ylxz3C2Z for ; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 00:05:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=FYouVqiN; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.68.206 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754265953; bh=4UK/vR5eSm7X9tU6PzRABMUGRj5IaBy6mNZIYgb68cw=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=FYouVqiNfu+k4s9AJcmWHUhdVGQfZ7EBIlgFGwgfbbuzfODeL5+9u0hSXaQe/aSA+f1j+9tNE9incqRIKIugt9XhtlFBwN1L9HJpS3PwAcycy3CeQPr/V93KWbz7D+Rgmk4/UaEDyhK2OkzuagOjDrsUKCrh7YDVGJVsh1HIBY8m1EgV8/5QDhaQwJtJWU5JHmcEc50yKLnCLpBpg8EdapOa0/CdPok3xruJUYYQwWgphVSQfwgJEthJQTshw3W4dPZnE7rn01n5DSJCSUPVcfurqW9D6Y0AohJ9oQ0c8IO7ky484cg96vfV0KMbfU29m/GhWCoLXYEkx1rhV3Z0cw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754265953; bh=gCHoh5nnwFRUI3MOPxWJ1v6lYaU2Ni/hhLyMC9LLZ7V=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=WMHf1HGeHo7yFhF0UDtUr97Y5iSWUJ2p5k9f3270eEqKdBT4E4/gfbmq35Od8Z8Sdb6d4c36bFRpJA80ha6vT8z0K7SW+6fvfLFKv4tTGm7TC8XgZ/pqIKyRp5EXtYfBh8Ys4Ha9pTirCLNn3i/vgKp5NOfkF8tjweegjy8F8GUrQJrHIIylEswKpfC6p6630c+YEHn8Nvnn1c5v8V/+ykR0tIvcgtXzdoUnq3LyiLSv+NylAYN+V0Sg/EGOQE19sIBV9OXiMLEMZjZdWnsg01uDDXD4Ct8NFOgbIdky9vPOLmoctT+5T5vy5wbbvb5ajKURdndpnBZkHIPVFT0WUg== X-YMail-OSG: mg.WfEEVM1nrkibx8dmsqCBOECtb.sfm0ov95OkxKmAWDOXWJ1r98T30S2Ze66s Dvh6QA_hU7fZUHzdKZkyyir2feg0fP0Scb542HmXFDqG.vBfA.Wx7p7DDpbU1Q.nsPW1jnYDFim1 XahsA9M1ROjJ1tUpaUOzKt2HwLkpfR6iSdAQBYM4IpD_nqBc2d9kbzNZCWAyYt4kcxksrBhp5uyA bN12M8t3YDN2JGG_mFIgzMen4k8ge6.k2Ip4kdUfCpuT9opqGPpGOeC4mhBDbAsi0PgmoPEgnTlj iOwWNlsznmhOmZu1nVAh0vT4kRCg2722kfgNZg8ZmCScnL8m1Hy6AbOs2urFE2uKpT8AIhUOH74Z v.5.b5VZLHL_JqpvMw_Txhdhk80RusdOowoiYqFq0PY3j3CaOV91DfvNdQ_n12fS51FofaIJZ.F7 BB9znDaXugdaa3I2lQh39TSAKTzMRhGoUcGBGTQQe4z5iVJ7PLd.G6sKowzrgZ.334UVFf_vtDDk fi9fIJWMsd6ER72YWbEXdrKw2mxmZPV2jCeC8VZGD_H0TcgmjNU7cx.dj8X41pW0MVieMNIjOyza 6md1L9MwYp_Nqvxt0Wz.dGb5VcY1OktAx1FMbcV_4Hcfsz0GZ26dbJqFoH6gXMuXU9.VcFaL0nW4 wrkYB42Oyhf71c6vWMipgvlwXiM_Ug2NRVtecNOCT_blAFEaNRa0B2c9GM8NQhxmK35qYG1XQ6sf fARdCe_OaCxnXGMPNzBUlWP8bj0JvXqJpCx5zN.xXD4uTZdhyJXyn_AnOiA0nvRHPOsRK6d42JhD VpWtvafamLibvseL88Mly3FT5dhrBXViASqXHciRvm2TSpv79KUp_8dJGGxU_34p1F1dOJq.m9.h 4qIlxeMKuo_fWD3A4nM2Khs_uQTBGzhXzzJAuEaEBDrhxy4PWWQkG7wXRgERLU7SPzTJd6nJGNLw hcJXpp8CkifIJc.Sgr4IKspFc2Zin4fXDX2EBI.PCr5C31E8LY.aNyX8srE5I2wXoBxVv5jb.NFv p7bT1zdw_Y3fVq1PICPUHdaXAN6Mrw.SqrlrgxQ4uplUDEt9kDMkkjedelIT5tLp2qAsWoD8YBA4 5huemXb2_Gujh9rU_ytzv1n4UCBc.1_uMluYPtvtku8nytMh_Nv1O4lh42fR1G8X4Hy.wHrkL.n1 Ok9KH6xbJyRqVPDUSJoU.zzF5AT7hy9ujrMZPVpQHgMFJeWuGNae3IvjAG7EQlg3zjZWLBI4CntV 6RlIoROLJz2RYOW0hJM7ZFDifvfE76BIlFNcDE7UGdgfeaUALZzHm0UphTNmLKEXugebpjrVOQ19 wzWf25K1Fh1YuzKIdt2KYes5gy4ztva4Qxozft7DK6YmEUVQDO9l0of9DdE1BAqLAIzfUjreEXiJ SMJIMGXQ2sfdo9IWUaIBwCvJuUGrpEYc1IuegAWU9Gd6wLjzf4KaAN9f.sLt_a.gfDyPXJ1rK8LF WxfKrg9XM1W6TMK8XLLDdUXOLPY_ksFDOAmijDr8Vf7ymr.llBoi.emOsmZ._itqBaZjNWxu84Qo gNRCgyJOyDI7ksVrOrspH_86RGqPI7OPZWBe7QWx19A3ffE4rc7THytY.hRNECkz5XN2Tw92PGwG EWzFzEGoetEUMhAMMZYhurkT8e4lJWV8ot16EJ0380LwQ8SFupsQL0C_ivJwCs2.NFEjh8PD7PxF DAQXy7t8bOEbeT.MijpFHwFe15RXs.FDApt51nI.Sw7yfMu1IxZQW_iwW0Alsx35UAAnfPzVNEB1 gz_Crv_CenQ1INUCRhimn28BgBGNdBHCewtlaA1VAbsIlZnQQ0y1WHu9uB3YuMBIUXJeFMdhlQTK wt8xi1gWong5nIcF2tkmRs5sWgA1Lda8w4WEh4k0CdNGIeNjcysyPMIk0TRi3n8YNeN6yO1CXCe2 BdDzLwCi_c56AJGRNdCGtSkI5uQ4molv_k6S00y9UgWxRO7uiwO6CQpMm9gp6HFTT.azp8wjXmaa bFSothI7A_o5qPckLg2e1WbZ14nrR771E1C4mChx9fVoLwNYwzgz3cDtWpjG6fhimkAbnMSJaV0T ZyqX9CpdjvsdYHSiZt1vNUf0yuTWnY.YBtl.xIgZnU8t2iuh4ZdpUXEVGJqN6T4Cp_z8Ip8uKtzA zMJt34038_DltmLdLaWUPESarhw0253_sC7k2jlspavTNJsw067YjfP4Z2sOcC2dheEJiHWYEIRz nTkVr1fRIdgdv X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 4b07e433-0b57-4b07-9880-7f66f6a566bd Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2025 00:05:53 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-74d64bb7d7-x7xzm (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3748f321b7c9a0ae6f26a101231d0943; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 00:05:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: FYI: Looks like the various FreeBSD:15:*/base_latest/ last updated before 2025-Jul-21:16:00:00 Message-Id: <62F4964F-643A-4195-A9D9-7EB2E113FC0F@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2025 17:05:39 -0700 To: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) References: <62F4964F-643A-4195-A9D9-7EB2E113FC0F.ref@yahoo.com> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.41 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.914]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; 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Mon, 04 Aug 2025 14:33:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host86-143-41-189.range86-143.btcentralplus.com [86.143.41.189]) by smtp.theravensnest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A096D138E4; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 15:22:34 +0100 (BST) From: David Chisnall Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9D5667ED-63EA-434D-AC2A-443557F0C968" List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2025 15:22:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: vermaden , Shawn Webb , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , pete@nomadlogic.org, bapt@freebsd.org, bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs To: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) --Apple-Mail=_9D5667ED-63EA-434D-AC2A-443557F0C968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 31 Jul 2025, at 02:57, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote: >=20 > I would also like to separate it. Use one command to update (upgrade) = 3rd party packages and another to update (upgrade) base packages. It is = our workflow for the last 25+ years thus running one command to update = both is really unexpected and unwanted. I disagree here. If you *want* to separate them, then you can: you can = specify the repository that you want to upgrade explicitly. But if you = do then you risk things like: - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded my base system, but not my ports-kmods things, = so now my GUI doesn=E2=80=99t start. - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded ports, but the ports tree is built on a newer = point release and I need to upgrade to make some symbols exist. - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded the base system and now some kmods from ports = don=E2=80=99t work. All of these are things that users have complained about publicly in the = last year or so. =20 I have avoided them by always doing `freebsd-update install && pkg = upgrade` and keeping that in my shell history[1] so I don=E2=80=99t = accidentally forget to upgrade both together. Given a choice between a thing that works for users, or something that = *can* work for users but comes with a bunch of footguns that they need = to avoid, I=E2=80=99d pick the former. David [1] I=E2=80=99ve noticed on fresh installs, the default shell no longer = has working persistent history, which is a *big* POLA violation, if = people want to complain about something.= --Apple-Mail=_9D5667ED-63EA-434D-AC2A-443557F0C968 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On 31 Jul = 2025, at 02:57, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> = wrote:

I would also like to separate it. Use one = command to update (upgrade) 3rd party packages and another to update = (upgrade) base packages. It is our workflow for the last 25+ years thus = running one command to update both is really unexpected and = unwanted.

I disagree = here.  If you *want* to separate them, then you can: you can = specify the repository that you want to upgrade explicitly.  But if = you do then you risk things like:

 - = I=E2=80=99ve upgraded my base system, but not my ports-kmods things, so = now my GUI doesn=E2=80=99t start.
 - I=E2=80=99ve = upgraded ports, but the ports tree is built on a newer point release and = I need to upgrade to make some symbols exist.
 - I=E2=80=99= ve upgraded the base system and now some kmods from ports don=E2=80=99t = work.

All of these are things that users have = complained about publicly in the last year or so. =  

I have avoided them by always doing = `freebsd-update install && pkg upgrade` and keeping that in my = shell history[1] so I don=E2=80=99t accidentally forget to upgrade both = together.

Given a choice between a thing that = works for users, or something that *can* work for users but comes with a = bunch of footguns that they need to avoid, I=E2=80=99d pick the = former.

David

[1] = I=E2=80=99ve noticed on fresh installs, the default shell no longer has = working persistent history, which is a *big* POLA violation, if people = want to complain about something.
= --Apple-Mail=_9D5667ED-63EA-434D-AC2A-443557F0C968-- From nobody Mon Aug 4 14:51:54 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bwffR075zz647Hq for ; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 14:52:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic.asd.mail.yahoo.com (sonic308-54.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bwffQ3Bqsz3j08 for ; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 14:52:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754319127; bh=86uvstD91C/Y4aPhPt3SMVg7gxyCFWSnhdL/7umqWzk=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=h08CFcUX3KlqXlEekneeWInzKAWxz1yD2lPqomwIfGR2xIw5y9vguRx0jpkQiqNR9NNpweheczKzxj608J2Sjllmtbron+44l0W1B15rCpfbC9TbPlKqRIIrf2cGvw69ve3p59e6rfNTNxbTUv+y29Ckp6iMi5VH45xdfAL7MqfcHNIfQX/tqbsfKrqmm4jdDcZkLcVswPKxX1IjpWbBi0TpP8Q35o2dAQFvD3+k5BKNhTCsbL/JecEDeMmVSyZnvgkIjcWTiSiiRNJHdWmL66My4qs4A4kYGX/dDnLITYCaMTe93aVCwSvPEvXIt4O8SLX6dvs69VA75ctlbGsoLQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754319127; bh=vE3gM10daUVHjJUeorPNFXT4JTbSJadgurN8V9MQ4DU=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=LobQDSglJajYzwwphZPuD7CAfc/WXnJg5Zlygj8TC7A/uzSCP92k6H/7LIU1w481fml/jrDKuRYoCV4kePx1PFCka5wnDe0gVaJ33um/TAqv1+g3QAVcSmqlHwfsgJZxxfBqFBOF5+BRsXLy2AHXC/oVOO0AZ3Bdmg8cQ9rFkb8Tl5BJcpEPdABEgVcZwd8B5XGx3qfDG97fqh2xMPkC6Fm2YB02ImSV0yIK/PGOAGWJ56jCCzJFUpwh68y1cuFsLQFDrZoHaEA74a5ktfrAuuGLeRvtm6DbVeqLa2lGbFy/BYrdHp6iFmiB1Sae4+wgjmC2AFqeyz/2ezvPVEK2NA== X-YMail-OSG: 8o_mt7cVM1mIjuO3Nu4W_SU.oI30THcxeuxWnbcgS_fWMbTsv29HQ5S.Mbv8Zvx leJpwQVqJp2dECMBxOGILDOwAL8bTfGLwouCGvoZ1_p5RtQH2FCX6je.SGjas5IJqs386rp8IJDn jDQg9i6d7QM0urJSha1vu7KFkjO_50SDqSVK5Z6xleRz6LR4GOzDkSsMb5CRauf8ZYq4NUqIEYSz ulZkZodnwK.Jc4d8g8baqjlsEWLM7JyW0XsFwjtaU2klrZbw5NkVAQZxJ2j0xc5JklIalB4AHKsd QTVAZM_AKTJ2aj0fY.1LY_e_mNkYjKtwgeh_umRE03zhcjBS8zyJ05RNTBbB2XPNP7bqKHMmUlBH 0UiGh4TzUqpgEl3MWsjBrBfLLcVDqbsDCUXL5A11TMF1owXBgvkCg4OOAUGUxF737x23FfTdu2DO 4e.j55ErZ.QQe1KI4b7YfNh986rD2C2s_lWaCn1BpE36xYslELaO.GVIEQqyOoVy2GlDA2KkYFj3 hyWIIiK5OQ_wiacmpnM9_OKXvDB0kTDLXvDXx1.enFPzMJPKHI1G1BI_9VPK4O8D1mfF2cAZa1br J.6fcPrpbfx0J8cqsmoXGSb2TEQHOd9_Jwe1aCbsjv2DWIkcabJoBKVQl3sqjsyRF1TwMn9ygohd tdFrSQ49ZC5MSWifC0vYxxt6whqPJsJjhF2XZ_BMnso3LkJTG2KJE7YwYjxiOR3Y.rLlfsy1lmNB Gf0BwHYvkXa2XK5OHduU8N58TNQluqCgrD1q75oD5ItoEtZJvuqO6EHTO6pP76.8vOwmqTzs48k3 ZG0FbTV.5lMOj6BF7kLf1Lda7djPvOLLKkGsPuk0kEPKX5GhWNdb42ICjoZjORv414cyNyxYfhnc H8sBzgpgnOg2L1pznxU4WkVSSnMvqbyxhz082qEvAiYO8cqRH977q_.OjGZCw58IHG0wjPMkHGHI nscHYcnxYUPupj..QjxieOkcPvxTaR6wBlbQtdxflRHa78Isfv0YoW_K8rutUvdsh6eZiJ3QmrNr 8viiqVihCZikDDHUfz_nAvI1YjqCQ_DisGThLYGosj49YWXB3O5AH8bRGV3ywcjKoNYu_bjbh53v .sSmV86lOatFvnSEXVEo7n_SIGhUcic5jH5pxA6_mSn2O.pays7sdRWC_s3N69hOHC336zyHuBtj .R3pkdspYuvMN7C4U1wrLdb_eEPn5XVqhLYEMTetzsiHhq4BbsJnsK50o2.fF7jEyioTeiGNuRcw ju2dtBS.BvdKF0WPBN5h8.YzvCqaWGvt83FGvK2ONOdFY_KyVdoQRshK6yJZLItORKxfvT1Q7PLy xJ0HFJa3e_3TMxe7avbIGP3ede69oNpWW4vBKE95USpU4te8N2FrmaCPQf8.oGGaD5o.QyRBsliU aSzxk2_R_m87JGAHAiOaDLCVjll46zAUUAUvYuRYMxyr5Bv0qxunXGw4tHFenabxXGK5W.5YGoTG UzBIj93WG2pZAOzO0YhpSDvNjqUVGnaIx2j8fcFMBByJ1ui4Aqeyh1bcJ54xmf0.TmF.375eUixS BUJ9hoaCoxT0JQo_LDmH.cEKehlihIT1Y2JzThopzHJ11n4r1pahfw_xGYQkJYlbtHPYZusVFlEm mXZgih.dpnNKGjibthW1TWJFt1OGspxid5S2qucWjz56RY09IRWgSoUUS7uNczEHorWEv6Gusgp8 2F_pAziIKe.Q3kCn8UgzcRkRT4dZWp_2d7ylnQwzZLPtngTdH9osn49kfzAyej4IUr2EX8skOqw1 i7IoOOX1hDjDbFZUXhN2LkjZCwgeQ8JvK.lpTWDZPa2BfLrJPau00QbAHQDeBZDg4KG3IR2PqDx1 bZdyXECEsDU9lujNM2rwfRIq6KwkC5BYq83VpSc.WS8L.D5dPWgCgaAHteIqAxuMkfIIkZkkEp_G ARwOm8gS_6S2CTFwQh3Qoo.hTM8F5.zMVvFAUIDW_J8R2YTtSa2II8b5bZ783gXcoOuXplDYxvbz evRVDXc66HDE4Gv8swAtLRkXQ3U8KeVrsEW4NAtAKIkBHA1i2xvH91ZnBvXyvznqVkL0i8fMaaXK jswd_yiOQZDxy2AQYwPtuzGN5FgtR.xcV_ZBXELUlPmJUL1Dt.b5nLKqj8B6Ag0v2MFyzwBygQxn 6Jd0x8krHJDmFO4_jyDUQHBUpInm3sAMBNutiWsdNqsF5naSoGZXVh90L26EmoRFOXXRrbZWfw2k qc.jL7lJcJEfY8A7H0ZMLv3ndhJHSZd8SIeMPwXEpCZi2wZzmRGflIiL35e4DlS8LVH5yuat4BX1 LsoANnsY- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: ba041756-41c6-4a19-8e09-6b7e95e71bf7 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 4 Aug 2025 14:52:07 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-74d64bb7d7-4jn9v (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c4484a5656acd26ecc0d7ee607a31c89; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 14:52:05 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2025 07:51:54 -0700 Cc: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>, vermaden , Shawn Webb , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , pete@nomadlogic.org, bapt@freebsd.org, bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> References: To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bwffQ3Bqsz3j08 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] On Aug 1, 2025, at 07:22, David Chisnall wrote: > On 31 Jul 2025, at 02:57, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote: >>=20 >> I would also like to separate it. Use one command to update (upgrade) = 3rd party packages and another to update (upgrade) base packages. It is = our workflow for the last 25+ years thus running one command to update = both is really unexpected and unwanted. >=20 > I disagree here. If you *want* to separate them, then you can: you = can specify the repository that you want to upgrade explicitly. But if = you do then you risk things like: >=20 > - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded my base system, but not my ports-kmods = things, so now my GUI doesn=E2=80=99t start. PkgBase does not remove the issue that updating the kernel first, rebooting, and then updating the world can be a requirement. (World should get a later reboot as well.) Last I knew PkgBase did not manage this sequence of itself, even for when kmods are not involved. I selectively update the kernels first and reboot before updating teh other PkgBase packages. (The plural 'kernels' is because I'm using main and have all the PkgBase kernels installed. One can not do that for non-main for contexts with .dtb files involved: conflicts.) Is it always safe to update all the ports-kmods before the world is updated so they are in place for the after-kernel reboot with the old world? If not, then PkgBase is not of itself a way of making the handling automatic as far as I can tell. > - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded ports, but the ports tree is built on a newer = point release and I need to upgrade to make some symbols exist. > - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded the base system and now some kmods from ports = don=E2=80=99t work. >=20 > All of these are things that users have complained about publicly in = the last year or so. =20 >=20 > I have avoided them by always doing `freebsd-update install && pkg = upgrade` and keeping that in my shell history[1] so I don=E2=80=99t = accidentally forget to upgrade both together. >=20 > Given a choice between a thing that works for users, or something that = *can* work for users but comes with a bunch of footguns that they need = to avoid, I=E2=80=99d pick the former. >=20 > David >=20 > [1] I=E2=80=99ve noticed on fresh installs, the default shell no = longer has working persistent history, which is a *big* POLA violation, = if people want to complain about something. >=20 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Mon Aug 4 18:47:54 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bwltc5lwCz63NGb; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 18:48:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bwltc0n3dz49tW; Mon, 04 Aug 2025 18:48:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2025 20:47:54 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Mark Millard , David Chisnall Cc: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>, Shawn Webb , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "pete@nomadlogic.org" , "bapt@freebsd.org" , "bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> References: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754333285; bh=IzslqACS+rM2Cr3dSJ7KNFU4EsGLydotASFbFxzcscs=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=uGE9FYcp8BtlRQyNv9qceluR3j1+RpwNkxzQhi9tpJiyGMYv08V0R6uVs6G+cPYfO rrUYbZjWSX9vAyhg45bbzeHpd53GXCEJEgecsP2lybpoYXiLYR7VYIdZscJgA1mUKV xGjitWbCp2mWy/QtVTG+yDSMnW6K9n56x90PNh1o= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bwltc0n3dz49tW X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Hi. > PkgBase does not remove the issue that updating > the kernel first, rebooting, and then updating the > world can be a requirement. > (World should get a later reboot as well.) Not related to PKGBASE - but as you will be doing a reboot after the update= /upgrade anyway - its safer and easier to do the upgrade inside separate ZF= S Boot Environment - as running kernel does not 'conflict' with the one ins= talled/upgraded inside the ZFS BE. So you do all the possible steps needed = - upgrading base - upgrading packages ... Details: https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-env= ironments/ Another good aspect of doing it this way is limiting downtime to just a reb= oot time - because while you were doing the upgrade - the 'host' system sti= ll works untouched - then after you are done - you reboot into upgraded ZFS= BE and check if everything works - and if not you just reboot again into t= he ZFS BE that worked perfectly before the upgrade and have 'endless' time = to figure out what the issue with the upgrade was. Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-04 16:52 Nadawca: "Mark Millard" <marklmi@yahoo.com> Adresat: "David Chisnall" <theraven@FreeBSD.org>;=20 DW: "Miroslav Lachman" <000.fbsd@quip.cz>; "vermaden" <vermaden@inter= ia.pl>; "Shawn Webb" <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org>; "freebsd-pkgbase@free= bsd.org" <freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org>; "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" <= ;freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" <freebsd-pkg@fre= ebsd.org>; "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>; = pete@nomadlogic.org; bapt@freebsd.org; bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs;=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 > On Aug 1, 2025, at 07:22, David Chisnall wrote: >=20 >> On 31 Jul 2025, at 02:57, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote: >>>=20 >>> I would also like to separate it. Use one command to update (upgrade) 3rd party packages and another to update (upgrade) base packages. It is our workflow for the last 25+ years thus running one command to update both is really unexpected and unwanted. >>=20 >> I disagree here. If you *want* to separate them, then you can: you can specify the repository that you want to upgrade explicitly. But if you do then you risk things like: >>=20 >> - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded my base system, but not my ports-kmods things, = so now my GUI doesn=E2=80=99t start. >=20 > PkgBase does not remove the issue that updating the kernel > first, rebooting, and then updating the world can be a > requirement. (World should get a later reboot as well.) >=20 > Last I knew PkgBase did not manage this sequence of itself, > even for when kmods are not involved. I selectively update > the kernels first and reboot before updating teh other > PkgBase packages. (The plural 'kernels' is because I'm > using main and have all the PkgBase kernels installed. > One can not do that for non-main for contexts with .dtb > files involved: conflicts.) >=20 > Is it always safe to update all the ports-kmods before the > world is updated so they are in place for the after-kernel > reboot with the old world? >=20 > If not, then PkgBase is not of itself a way of making the > handling automatic as far as I can tell. >=20 >> - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded ports, but the ports tree is built on a newer point release and I need to upgrade to make some symbols exist. >> - I=E2=80=99ve upgraded the base system and now some kmods from ports don=E2=80=99t work. >>=20 >> All of these are things that users have complained about publicly in the last year or so. =20 >>=20 >> I have avoided them by always doing `freebsd-update install && p= kg upgrade` and keeping that in my shell history[1] so I don=E2=80=99t acciden= tally forget to upgrade both together. >>=20 >> Given a choice between a thing that works for users, or something that *can* work for users but comes with a bunch of footguns that they need to avoid, I=E2=80=99d pick the former. >>=20 >> David >>=20 >> [1] I=E2=80=99ve noticed on fresh installs, the default shell no longer has working persistent history, which is a *big* POLA violation, if people want to complain about something. >>=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D > Mark Millard > marklmi at yahoo.com >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Aug 5 08:39:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bx6LZ1WBhz64CJ5 for ; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:40:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crest@rlwinm.de) Received: from mail.rlwinm.de (mail.rlwinm.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:171:f902::5]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bx6LX698mz3VsT for ; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:40:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crest@rlwinm.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of crest@rlwinm.de designates 2a01:4f8:171:f902::5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=crest@rlwinm.de; dmarc=none Received: from [IPV6:2001:9e8:97c:400:2820:c7ad:708:c411] (unknown [IPv6:2001:9e8:97c:400:2820:c7ad:708:c411]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) server-digest SHA384) (No client certificate requested) by mail.rlwinm.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D99ABB2DE for ; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:39:56 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2025 10:39:55 +0200 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: FYI: Looks like the various FreeBSD:15:*/base_latest/ last updated before 2025-Jul-21:16:00:00 To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <62F4964F-643A-4195-A9D9-7EB2E113FC0F.ref@yahoo.com> <62F4964F-643A-4195-A9D9-7EB2E113FC0F@yahoo.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Jan Bramkamp In-Reply-To: <62F4964F-643A-4195-A9D9-7EB2E113FC0F@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.12 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.959]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.78)[-0.777]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[rlwinm.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bx6LX698mz3VsT X-Spamd-Bar: - On 04.08.25 02:05, Mark Millard wrote: > This is from looking at the likes of: > > https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:15:aarch64/base_latest/?C=M&O=D > > Of course, that is as-distributed, not necessarily as-built. The problem still hasn't been fixed, but the ABI version number has been bumped since. 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Tue, 05 Aug 2025 07:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([149.36.51.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-af91a1e82bbsm927694666b.81.2025.08.05.07.54.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Aug 2025 07:54:11 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2025 16:54:10 +0200 Message-Id: Subject: Testing wanted for pkg job scheduling bugfixes From: "Isaac Freund" To: , X-Mailer: aerc 0.20.1 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[freebsdfoundation.org,none]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[freebsdfoundation.org:s=gfnp-20170908]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_HELO_LOCALHOST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::530:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[freebsdfoundation.org:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxGfH3036z3MLq X-Spamd-Bar: --- Hello, I've recently posted fixes for two bugs in pkg's jobs scheduler. The first bug fixed results in upgrade jobs being unnecessarily split into delete/install jobs. It has been around since pkg 2.0.0 and is fixed by https://github.com/ifreund/pkg/tree/sched-fixes-2. The second bug fixed causes split upgrade jobs to ordered such that the time between the split delete/install jobs is maximized rather than minimized. This bug was introduced more recently due to code churn in pkg 2.2.0 and is fixed by https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/pull/2488. Since bapt is currently on vacation, these fixes won't be merged for at least two weeks. It would be great to get some more real-world testing in the meantime though if anyone has time! Both bug fixes as well as a few other minor improvements are included in this branch: https://github.com/ifreund/pkg/tree/sched-fixes-2 Feel free to reply to this email or on the github pull requests with any issues/comments! Thanks, Isaac From nobody Tue Aug 5 16:34:09 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxJst355hz63RDw for ; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 16:34:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic.asd.mail.yahoo.com (sonic316-54.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxJss2pxRz3YpL for ; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 16:34:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=kgJ71Km3; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.69.30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754411663; bh=dR/+dZkPulp1Ee1OTAZe5A1NNOWLTfuVI2Q8PaLwzQA=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=kgJ71Km3oad6JeVYCtsT6uzYxkK6gERGKsr4OJVWUc79fdnHgyFlFCBK5WF4v8KwsMcSmNCbQpjEMX9HgoIBet55kZw7QccAJhKTnxKjzbZPtnyu5qfJ5cJ0Njzbjw56p7aQ3JxP2xrb1wV6XxaX1dJEVP+q+LL8K/RK3fq2DAxabf0ZhqzGNsJoAB3IFOQGt+xn2gKEVMWbGp4ohT/IJZkJdyBS3/f7WK05o3++tjBV3q3uSL1BHulGzl2I9YIUuLa7Nc0VtRyDdXg08FIFBOJeCbjAC8IpD9xD6rNPam/qP27rFyHwNPFFCW2MJbCMBDwSVYiZJ8dDKWX68I1yCw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754411663; bh=UveO95myhqp68PptX4LaEmSkMXOovDiXiWb3n8vgIJq=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=NbCj+8Nb3TLLkJMClvPMG9iroItzPDOzPwwcTswwyRGhpa5oQpSDGTa+aTEVZQ7oCUmefA8lONSIWKIOYQ6lQ5PAAxjEGZxZb62hgnbcc7eafCcNrGU1Qk5IKnIaDusvDEMkC3RFczP/INhb30alnyao3DFCvnPZrz+s0KgT92mxppv8BjGYvy9ZjFK1x+6xf7wY285aiInWlGCiOxfrvFs+Xh7lVDla2/9XKbvvpLlMwucYyychYHJ4DgXewuvemRlOcpVKdGOcBb6BhNkRlNiE9Xc1pmXf3K0DRnCCGJeI66455dzB04afdjW4sdZ43ovUSJRuJ0Tuz7uXuDIUng== X-YMail-OSG: UXJrLS4VM1loUV_OI1swg8B93w.73DXBMJjrGk.WrO1yASqhGHt8n5irHHGq5V7 swj.b45O1PmDRHIeXam4uMPWHDDKytZadPbsLkfeCy3EifTMkADvz6JMxkayvSblBPG6lSVEhxiC Sicd9XZGnsn7ep5UCz7Hz3DPtOKE5I8SyCKA_XX.tqW0_o4i0fOjPD7QlbvlFvXyVHWMt5jEneHd NjQjfsQ30ntuZUnGfWSZeTSnqvmuKpFX_bRb738rYb.HrUzrWkqzuHsi1uaB38__zSl7UI5ShCUD tIe6A39gXICxlwfkLPyGgd1puw1J4xwMLwLOB3ZrsnE0mwvBrleH5u.7vy2C0js8.go2XLi9mE_b KfN9qru_VeQzISwqTchXNnGPbCLoBntJfH5RoZNhPcW0ftx9b61ttQiUHn1TjFWdzIx_cDcTj9Yg S2EXua6wug3tlJFlR8YD_PutM8egrq.6UN_XGwv2ThrTaRvG1dklkEjKtyXwqesfNiBcqjQsZSCk 1ZVRHo65y9VM_CRu3LKySLWMSnE33Nucu43XOqn48AuoUb4L.OjB9jCsLjMcyN_yWNLN2_0NI4Sj KHEG7E6Pmx99aWePZFWx8HqEb0W4dWisu8K5PZtokQQUuX94I.H8v7IPQqqKnOYJW42Kj_VNLxmB VOsxPuwfqZgp2KGnuGnHYeV_blhoUBnbTgHE7a1xrJr9mYWYV8FLZQ7gSEEl75MB5GwCEr3h7K6o gH4AGDSe2BTJGdPrTFlmKzpdYyA1Qawf6bsDIFdIfvCC8jb9Ek58jy20b6IjNuUh1TRovoQMQtwO JU6i4ybEmDLLFZoaA8kXybLc8QwKTHEXFiyF1Sb1gj_ow4laIItLs9Z5WttLjAZgTZDGYKopX1gY xYmDs0SYxc40RDMlmZGnN1VLXk1P2hkk7DTeM7zvFrdnxYKmgvgStg5okZUpQVFQur0eeyYkNug0 rjLuajbyXi7HDu5yLUT6uktOLS1OSUr3RICi_BldRuZIL2pNHbhTwvZBslYEe2RGrjU.o1fiLSnE YNwlx1lsw3FpC_VAo.ZvRXft8.n89Lp4fR96yKi7BuyeBiXj2zIPir0IRrfH2YOZQcSNXn0Eb9sf 0ysk7OUOu0OKNbTBfmzUiwgRtrcG6SsvJVV40xPt8KKBZJJ9hpdJakgEQhQ3lZC95xsR7DPwUlBX EdeU2dRwzPOhMrnlpTczX7KNbtXFpXsJtFbn.cU1hXutwh6Rke3T7wlRi5YTMNu51834lqIAJK1C ybVcgXWF.4bNRq03MCqdF4fthawxVQl6Ey_Qe3JFrEuZylt6v8McPxA.f6pNJmNbOlhZWACcV09t fAaL5DaL1CDXhYYuoiHGGr.ycPsoChSFmCXKRNiLpq4Zcr199rzrmTd.Q.ag.90PtX1fiYKuO3uc xmm3wWOOvlTlZAPZPBVyVO0dBGhFhgZAhLzY_VIMEaI5Ljqb7qcx1_8IGJ3z1qIa_RRhmphVYNny gI02rSbl_r5PopcDUPuqWobqZj8Zs4u_HAQF9XR7p24.tzy3FxAgB13K6_2jk8YC3gNMi9LFMIhY YCPGp_upb1m4EPf.x5pVa1a.KLTHQYw1ItjBrI0i4hs__aApiM7bX.aUXmrmuiIme3v6vClp10CB ziBOH5noKG7N.ZzSW2mTSu2V6I8Px2HXLBbcnzs7VJnRAGosXHlzo.t1rPKrdnMr3ZcUv26nokOx fq.o34S07.eindBBpJHBQroSS9YOeWoSo1AeNZn156o7PjLs1s7Np9bbzEE9MZJ4iMEO5QFUNYqy Ht7jqtsBrTY5Xw2P2KXZkNsjnmz5avxntyrNFXKNd_d3PzLD55uyQp.DFgEHwbBUX3B9.NhiW1xf GXiT4RUFMRrBtH_W4zUMmBqnTuBufrRuLHgSxbDIRy9FAhnEkItagCkBTSVMONsgWT1gGBRrJI44 tRazD0oeFS1SxHjAc7VECR2m3bXG5CMfmJRmhdOnqJl1cdeL8wtA.GORNs8EJZliggMvYST1Lpl8 8ICZZIL0rvMpuIrtKxseC_shlZ9YwNwkhKTnYavytW_zFoQhX.MzeksP8hVP63EkMJuROgW1B2wP 4O0.EXYBMiQ1YaLvdUXCQygnRe.KhBxryiA8ZjIV5vNTN_whnpBctI1ZLLe32HtHyh.PaDR1aTqd rQeX0mMTXaQpU3IjEYv8_RicuhmfDuFKDbsnbRVNURyvP046J3G.3NsqesSD6rizLJ0s80ot8zR7 Pop3wKty6fMicjxhlKJAacN970pKaN3sSreix22jGGNQU8ZlR2mqPWJkThjbMh78- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: b04bd08b-0dd6-446d-99d5-f202221f5f7c Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2025 16:34:23 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-74d64bb7d7-x7xzm (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID ba78236b8739d0a3a1fcb3359caff1b7; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 16:34:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: FYI: Looks like the various FreeBSD:15:*/base_latest/ last updated before 2025-Jul-21:16:00:00 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2025 09:34:09 -0700 References: <62F4964F-643A-4195-A9D9-7EB2E113FC0F@yahoo.com> To: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <62F4964F-643A-4195-A9D9-7EB2E113FC0F@yahoo.com> Message-Id: <523B5741-5D67-4D4A-9696-253643E71298@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.69.30:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.30:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxJss2pxRz3YpL X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Aug 3, 2025, at 17:05, Mark Millard wrote: > This is from looking at the likes of: >=20 > https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:15:aarch64/base_latest/?C=3DM&O=3DD >=20 > Of course, that is as-distributed, not necessarily as-built. I saw a note indicating that bapt is on vacation for 2 weeks. That = likely explains the lack of an update after something for main = apparently broke main's PkgBase builds. Something PkgBase might want to have for its eventual official use is = someone providing alternative coverage when bapt is not available to get = PkgBase builds working again. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Wed Aug 6 01:41:38 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxY1S1cJVz6416M; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 01:41:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com (mail-wm1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxY1R2l7lz3SxY; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 01:41:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=Vt9ASpmA; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grahamperrin@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::334 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grahamperrin@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-458c063baeaso24956345e9.1; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 18:41:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1754444500; x=1755049300; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from :content-language:references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eYAviNhKQZxAMVFxEiSwMcpXzcZqmdscNGxy+Fo49UM=; b=Vt9ASpmAVncRLFMWZln+DzBrmIGTFweVe3lkPHkRx+TeeN//jqebC8NYAujoiPHnro 77wLeAOtlee+jk9krGoufYroQA/4ExuGOtQjBFoHFMswMT3yk9E2X+76OWMtREjQl7BQ rEGFjDlSFUj+igHWGdd8jFCEwkfJjJUBxJH/2aGmr/MwO90Dr2vGA2pJWvDoY3SgrK0S UwWkdrGh8YS5aC42wtJK5H8ozNZ2FeOPoh67ywEmZ/5u04Jz/bXs7h9ujXbui8R+Qv0t m2QB3IAawsEu0MFTeZ27+ComNLUyEIdZyIwzspc1HhylccYOP2VDQh4cnDeFeKIn/M3L x3zA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754444500; x=1755049300; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from :content-language:references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=eYAviNhKQZxAMVFxEiSwMcpXzcZqmdscNGxy+Fo49UM=; b=U+qslHZVHwcxkC8C9AIM1AnPT2z1cxdtc0vttoQvkLk7fQ+oMnk9woxDg75ZFFBDWz MkC9AMP87udlmgyARmIBTGo/gcoRDYAXCHEX0fUd85uSgNIlv2CfMUDOr9BfeuzuCZpL L+9VtA0UcT/HM6PLYgCjy9klIyMFjLaofq4auAooe48aDDXzIR/FfPasiAdCKALxc26+ 5+mVN3NL+YADCg08DyIbAPgH2QJWEnbW73hD4cNIQSJCHPydppX5o/so/P6bXGO2Z1QZ WY7eyQYI5LXfd43cd0GG0I+pGPyU2Ri4bJ3FwzB5iRYQpAjOaLYm8Ist2VxEub9V2nBF o1CQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUZ36EkcwQtOKuy7pTuB/sIDOw642od1lxBeEpYRpeNX7hN9ZxRdobBQVUPl4Wc5JZru2skGYiYKv5btzQstPc=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCVJzwUpBjYSnowBA5VV4ouF78YbJNvgt7fbjiJW9OhneQ/e7G8eU8fTidiOV7WBXaPF46WmRfXu/zGAGa4=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWV/ABzZhdWgAUjuYWRTRdFWBuxicim6N/jTR0HLjGLModeCi1yAwnrGuGLK52Y3zMNUgcAKPwbT5gTlQ==@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyyg0TrTheydyhSooJNrtoUyaON7hmaLbqeZGg3qpSFyb95EOqa Ite+0W5AbayIzGQKENnYBASlo+TkTkHYhK/uCJg9s8du08GXwD66Xpkga72dXJDf X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuLZzPaeCvcZEh/zDd2kJLNh7cSRs7CgOEQ7zcJFET0P2rRHnc5WkoJr0jcv7l FnKzzpAgvIDINM1YPnLw6JyvezMXM965iOj4WQ4MuNV6+w6s1vIJHlWRW48KYTTHpCLhoGPlsXm Jgz32ubTLKVtjG4c5BPThXaNV0EgFkbVCP2j9TWT5x/2MzhdWm02Bmpb0KvG0X4x4FAh2kxfi0y bjmaHcSVlAb8Czh/X2Rkn/pEpLSc1WcRBe5VoHivKO09MSu9rz9QbRTiOJfQsdtt6xYcPbLlbaX 0TQCVqgBe6Mv5ofZaIaax7GOWOFUuGrALmAFUoDbgykp7dRRVP3kHiYfrSuEhve97Yqs4wbEW1W kergCEVTSFBa6VkenOQDN3X8p85GjWRqvWOhls0H0dQL+WsfpXFipk+86XFw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHZAQUlndUQWd4F8YFRBezk1e+Htfveijkv30z0bTxhbx5QrAbvz04HlJifMB4/P2pZUVu02Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:450e:b0:456:1006:5418 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-459e7089870mr7734415e9.13.1754444499746; Tue, 05 Aug 2025 18:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (host-89-241-205-78.as13285.net. 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DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxY1R2l7lz3SxY X-Spamd-Bar: --- On 04/08/2025 19:47, vermaden wrote: > … Not related to PKGBASE lowercase, please. pkgbase > … safer … https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-environments/ … Off-topic from the four lists: it's known that following instructions, whilst taking the linked approach, can break the OS. Breakage is not particularly safe. The four lists are not the places for a debate. With regard to rule-breaking, could have been taken as a reminder that no posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists, and only to 2 when a clear and obvious need to post to both lists exists. From nobody Wed Aug 6 09:17:44 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxl7Z5Wb1z63SDr; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxl7Z4lSlz3GpS; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754471866; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=xagBlBKGb9HpW3pDNWDTpd3oli3LCVwwZ+Uym2v/BX0=; b=pG8qzS1OH8+VoKzRmPn47oVLMvqqk+6kG7hGFhBSVnyKS9VYy3wXJUR7JVw/tZY9K1P3pr HJTrL1eONm2S6NQDN0ruYr4o12zj6xaLTpPMe3yS11J94Y6ofwh7NurHbBfZB+I47tOe+W BvonzynwvdfqWamuBq0F1X3qrG0+DM/VPEpWg5ju/ANAGjl/JJEGEA9PjXgAJX3/syOlxJ CoNoBa/clyiqxVaP7SfgJwWdU5EoBNZts0F9a8wZmoeOHmbNzbma5pgivQ94VV/pfBE9gq s6xKdLbZ/tev5WBjBHBU/nxVazBytk9ggzkc1+1URuD0Tn+9jVNk9lu/oZ3wow== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754471866; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=xagBlBKGb9HpW3pDNWDTpd3oli3LCVwwZ+Uym2v/BX0=; b=hdwihNOoPlqhfSTOqCxs1zvsMrkuyLnTSxix3/dHQKlwOnP+TBytr6ORi5+6bPz1YXXu1P wD9p4WHQtYcPh4wePXQDdF29zq8kqJXfx35G5n39+WBY6Ocy8jg1qCexqLcKOFUkaQmphJ ARq6fhsyysI9D/J9rPtFL9uq9OsJqKmDuhS2xEsDtoqlVc+5Lp5TXxfDKm4OYrs4UfYcyr OzapYJSjL8WQx/CuQtbivTQuudb/ZjrhVRItDpxspJWrQUXjYPP8TJv2u4VMH3JB96fq5Y D2k89slUtyQYANrs0ws/b8N1pXLoNpjrDhL+BPnmrBsbX9Kv21Y6yiNvJ5ruoA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754471866; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=F1/ejrllzACEjdPe/4SQGSu6w6Nc8PN2I7Mfu8mc3eFSZyolCAUq23P02tCOGwtD0U+i7x ubbvsswKZ3wH5/mUK6Ab07pGD8Bf8qEHv6n7NyYqyTirb9waupQNDuGv1tCWsfw7UazwCH EavbpGMPvtWq8/3og5Ttx10X2KvwsvOWYLmjEptX5f6VMd5Ig/8Ws9G+OJ+AqTQUV4V/3k YO66anvi3XO7V2Okogy9SmlcGcCH4XNHSwgXXEP23nMMXyDLCHS/Xd+ff0mAhG5dmcaS2t 5avbFntwt5CC6Sc3IXkMd+XbMWg56XMQGKpl8QWSOuCUbG35h10tO00YwYXqSw== Received: from ltc.des.dev (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:c54:bed0:922e:16ff:fef1:acef]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bxl7Z3Gthz8Cn; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id ACCAE12DA5; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 11:17:44 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Graham Perrin Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, postmaster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature In-Reply-To: <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> (Graham Perrin's message of "Wed, 6 Aug 2025 02:41:38 +0100") References: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2025 11:17:44 +0200 Message-ID: <86qzxo6c7b.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Graham Perrin writes: > The four lists are not the places for a debate. You have no authority here. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Wed Aug 6 09:30:54 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxlR004jKz63SwJ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:31:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxlQz3xmJz3KYR; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:31:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2025 11:30:54 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Graham Perrin , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "postmaster@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> References: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754472660; bh=Q0f7xfybcMuM1ceJNKaXO/hHHrXNcNJaQBl8U9W56fA=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Ll49to5DXlzjF/2DvIU8WHHDL8NV3Qj0lGIv/g2tGInst66a7GmCI7R+dwLf/lRUX y61fEwdX+pVnVJzex6nq5uuMvUiE4EqKtm3PJKHXCX9zFM9NfMCjQBFqsWUBZ6BEv+ 56Wk/Jn1pp6eirl8P5+yrZwPfFESRBgpqSQYezUw= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxlQz3xmJz3KYR X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] > lowercase, please. I always used PKGBASE when I refer to this technology and I will continue t= o do so. Limited raw email allows only lowercase, Title Case or UPPERCASE. If UPPERC= ASE is problematic for you then maybe you should switch to platforms that a= llow more sophisticated ways of text formating with bold/italic/underline f= eatures. > Off-topic from the four lists: it's known > that following instructions, whilst taking > the linked approach, can break the OS. > Breakage is not particularly safe. Instructions work as desired - I upgraded dozens of systems this way over a= decade and not a single one break. ZFS Boot Environments were literally designed to work that way - to create = upgrade within new not running BE: - https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E23824_01/html/E24456/betools-6.html#betools-3 ... and even IF they would break anything - the only thing they would break= would be separately created ZFS Boot Environment and NOT the host system i= tselt. Read more about ZFS Boot Environments - how they work - what they pr= ovide - and stop spreading that misinformation if you do not understand how= they work. =20 > With regard to rule-breaking,=20 Citing The Matrix movie: "Some of them can be bent. Others can be broken." The FreeBSD Base System is one of THE core FreeBSD values and features. It = is really important to make sure that PKGBASE - as much as I like the conce= pt - will not break it. For this important concern of mine that PKGBASE mus= t find some way to preserve Base System independence from regular third par= ty packages I addressed all Mailing Lists that are related to this problem = - and they are: - freebsd-stable - freebsd-current - freebsd-pkg - freebsd-pkgbase As that seemed logical and reasonable. Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-06 3:41 Nadawca: "Graham Perrin" <grahamperrin@gmail.com> Adresat: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org;=20 DW: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@fr= eebsd.org; postmaster@freebsd.org;=20 >=20 > > On 04/08/2025 19:47, vermaden wrote: >> =E2=80=A6 Not related to PKGBASE >=20 > lowercase, please. >=20 > pkgbase >=20 >> =E2=80=A6 safer =E2=80=A6 https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-env= ironments/ =E2=80=A6 >=20 >=20 > Off-topic from the four lists: it's known that following instructions, > whilst taking the linked approach, can break the OS. Breakage is not=20 > particularly safe. >=20 > The four lists are not the places for a debate. >=20 > With regard to rule-breaking,=20 > =20 > could have been taken as a reminder that no posting should be made to=20 > more than 2 mailing lists, and only to 2 when a clear and obvious need > to post to both lists exists. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Aug 6 09:46:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxlnc3CXJz63Txs for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:47:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) Received: from prime.gushi.org (prime.gushi.org [IPv6:2620:137:6000:10::142]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) client-digest SHA384) (Client CN "prime.gushi.org", Issuer "E6" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxlnb1shDz3Nw3 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:47:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gushi.org header.s=prime2014 header.b=OtGrwS4a; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@gushi.org designates 2620:137:6000:10::142 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@gushi.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gushi.org Received: from smtpclient.apple ([IPv6:2001:500:6b:200:0:0:0:2]) (authenticated bits=0) by prime.gushi.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPSA id 5769lDAW068658 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2025 09:47:14 GMT (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 prime.gushi.org 5769lDAW068658 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gushi.org; s=prime2014; t=1754473634; bh=EvT45a+hhjlD7xMvyxjIP6oV6/ewBQqcPEU+k4RxyZ0=; h=From:Subject:Date:To; z=From:=20"Dan=20Mahoney=20(Ports)"=20|Subject:= 20Why=20is=20my=20base=20tree=20not=20updating?|Date:=20Wed,=206=2 0Aug=202025=2002:46:56=20-0700|To:=20freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org; b=OtGrwS4amNrxoFxPqkhAuq9DtUBdrmKSS7zQSrO75ZtSGjcI5SUFF76anUiY9egxx Dc28L/tQFBHHdLaMq9SEYxsgUW5OpxUqLww805Aa9NAilpSPd24Seg3CaeYy1yWj+E u25v1qa4o8it5b0SEZrB0SwdzoCNqNmiuoa4q+/7W9q5rRx6GaM5oBXRAwgimNgsY/ zOgOz8gJhsbp2O8SCMs/rnYH5rGBpb5CALCEkyI/+nKblPP3qCHalx+vl6a5Po/XbJ vkRta1ve2cqjgglnXPvPq2fJC0a1tbhQYQNyatp+mVYOgnYhDCTE2qEH0lVfOykQmd iOQEMyIy2lZtg== X-Authentication-Warning: prime.gushi.org: Host [IPv6:2001:500:6b:200:0:0:0:2] claimed to be smtpclient.apple From: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3860.100.5.1.1\)) Subject: Why is my base tree not updating? Message-Id: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 02:46:56 -0700 To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3860.100.5.1.1) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.98 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[gushi.org:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gushi.org,none]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[2620:137:6000:10::142:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gushi.org:s=prime2014]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gushi.org:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:393507, ipnet:2620:137:6000::/44, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxlnb1shDz3Nw3 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Hey there all,=20 I'm hitting an issue with apache's mod_md:=20 httpd: Syntax error on line 46 of /usr/local/etc/apache24/httpd.conf: = Syntax error on line 1 of /usr/local/etc/apache24/Modules/md.load: = Cannot load /usr/local/libexec/apache24/mod_md.so into server: Shared = object "libk5crypto.so.121" not found, required by "libcurl.so.4"=20 (Clearly relating to the changes on 20250724 in /usr/src/updating)=20 I'm running pkgbase on 15-CURRENT AMD64 I'm using the repo that claims = (per https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase) there are builds twice a day: https://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/base_latest=20 And yet, when I try to update, I'm often told that I'm up to date, even = after days or weeks, despite seeing changes in the git tree.=20 My latest FreeBSD-src repos are a couple weeks old:=20 FreeBSD-src-15.snap20250721134219 System userland source code=20 FreeBSD-src-sys-15.snap20250721123655 System kernel source code=20 And if I run pkg info | grep 202508 I see nothing.=20 When I reinstall pkg, I get a warning about my userland being out of = date, but I can't seem to get anything newer from pkgbase.=20 Is there something I'm missing here? What am I doing wrong?=20 -Dan= From nobody Wed Aug 6 10:15:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxmQw3jbNz63WfR for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 10:16:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Received: from mail.bsd4all.net (mail.bsd4all.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:13b:240c::25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxmQv2VxFz3QMW for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 10:16:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gojira.at header.s=mail202005 header.b=aEdtkko4; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of herbert@gojira.at designates 2a01:4f8:13b:240c::25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=herbert@gojira.at; dmarc=none Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2025 12:15:55 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=gojira.at; s=mail202005; t=1754475358; bh=tsUZ8Y1VBnjFHIMQFTBir6d4SQ6jaM56B3b701p58xA=; h=Date:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=aEdtkko4gajYZx7BQpq7DHAwcsVbPN3aJwZ7qkeeUecq+ljMIlGRJOqCFiFkOcyhF A6qVHwgoAy3qaEJvtZtae/DAUPyxXJqskwYa9BrpiHWhyvWLydW9FIbGW3NBmPOtSu 8Z7X/Eq5KoxVemw9XCvZOWLVdgNicGDAmAHxt68uB/EupoA9EEmCpwvWPSIlZRq6Ok Trya2awx0yLGYa6+3NozMWirxCdLeTRvhhn/AZTJPrNQrY3T+3HG9+GoiWQ520+vfp RqJ6jjIGOfOGUb/4pDIJ9rkyE3GY4LMP3H95v8yyll2zrSDWQdN83evjptcfXZbfOc 5lwBasEL58yeA== Message-ID: <87ectodack.wl-herbert@gojira.at> From: "Herbert J. Skuhra" To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is my base tree not updating? In-Reply-To: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/31.0 Mule/6.0 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.41 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.911]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:4f8:13b:240c::25]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gojira.at:s=mail202005]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gojira.at]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gojira.at:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxmQv2VxFz3QMW X-Spamd-Bar: - On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 11:46:56 +0200, "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" wrote: > > Hey there all, > > I'm hitting an issue with apache's mod_md: > > httpd: Syntax error on line 46 of > /usr/local/etc/apache24/httpd.conf: Syntax error on line 1 of > /usr/local/etc/apache24/Modules/md.load: Cannot load > /usr/local/libexec/apache24/mod_md.so into server: Shared object > "libk5crypto.so.121" not found, required by "libcurl.so.4" Have you tried to rebuild the port ftp/curl? Run 'pkg check -d' to see if you need to rebuild other ports. > (Clearly relating to the changes on 20250724 in /usr/src/updating) > > I'm running pkgbase on 15-CURRENT AMD64 I'm using the repo that claims (per https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase) there are builds twice a day: > > https://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/base_latest > > And yet, when I try to update, I'm often told that I'm up to date, even after days or weeks, despite seeing changes in the git tree. > > My latest FreeBSD-src repos are a couple weeks old: > > FreeBSD-src-15.snap20250721134219 System userland source code > FreeBSD-src-sys-15.snap20250721123655 System kernel source code > And if I run pkg info | grep 202508 I see nothing. > > When I reinstall pkg, I get a warning about my userland being out of date, but I can't seem to get anything newer from pkgbase. > > Is there something I'm missing here? What am I doing wrong? I don't know the reason, but there are no newer packages available. Check: https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:15:amd64/base_latest/ But updated pkgbase packages won't resolve the Apache issue. -- Herbert From nobody Wed Aug 6 11:44:28 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxpNy1GhZz63c1x for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 11:44:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Received: from mail.bsd4all.net (mail.bsd4all.net [94.130.200.20]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxpNw3MGBz3ZGp for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 11:44:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gojira.at header.s=mail202005 header.b=0N5ttUm6; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of herbert@gojira.at designates 94.130.200.20 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=herbert@gojira.at; dmarc=none Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2025 13:44:28 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=gojira.at; s=mail202005; t=1754480670; bh=fNC4c9EiHtheO0OTjSBi2jCNAy82txbh69rKlz2wp7c=; h=Date:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=0N5ttUm6GZflCLIZj0uYu4Kj42KaqZFuZO37VOJ5mlseE43ZwT/1ZSn7PhCiJEAXO ScXvNo8XLrgu/HG8uZNttrhbRbt1sJCs+d4Ea5HWEFWT+MTkLloSahpi2Kf3IStGut 51+ZC/J3//nSzqGgw13agQ3IN/2xEuFIlN3y9BHhZgYhysXKjkQSBsEmmOr1dzoUlK 4qLJXFkZ08X8HIuVM/FyGzfH6VG81YTMWFcBz/7PLscNNpOEOL/u2DUpGd7RAZWgKP XFoV1/w4c44qU6Ip71sowDueFE726PWKwvpi2/0uw/fF33LG9L8FASOJy/SPWoNlwG mt44T8rrLJ1DQ== Message-ID: <87cy98d68z.wl-herbert@gojira.at> From: "Herbert J. Skuhra" To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why is my base tree not updating? In-Reply-To: References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <87ectodack.wl-herbert@gojira.at> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/31.0 Mule/6.0 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:94.130.200.20]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gojira.at:s=mail202005]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:94.130.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gojira.at]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gojira.at:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxpNw3MGBz3ZGp X-Spamd-Bar: - On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 12:58:02 +0200, Dan Mahoney wrote: > > On Aug 6, 2025, at 3:15=E2=80=AFAM, Herbert J. Skuhra wrote: > >=20 > > On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 11:46:56 +0200, "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" wrote: > >>=20 > >> Hey there all,=20 > >>=20 > >> I'm hitting an issue with apache's mod_md:=20 > >>=20 > >> httpd: Syntax error on line 46 of > >> /usr/local/etc/apache24/httpd.conf: Syntax error on line 1 of > >> /usr/local/etc/apache24/Modules/md.load: Cannot load > >> /usr/local/libexec/apache24/mod_md.so into server:= Shared object > >> "libk5crypto.so .121" not found, required by "= libcurl.so .4" > >=20 > > Have you tried to rebuild the port ftp/curl? Run 'pkg check -d' to see > > if you need to rebuild other ports. > >=20 > >> (Clearly relating to the changes on 20250724 in /usr/src/updating)=20 > >>=20 > >> I'm running pkgbase on 15-CURRENT AMD64 I'm using the repo that claims= (per https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase) there are builds twice a day: > >>=20 > >> https://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/base_latest=20 > >>=20 > >> And yet, when I try to update, I'm often told that I'm up to date, eve= n after days or weeks, despite seeing changes in the git tree.=20 > >>=20 > >> My latest FreeBSD-src repos are a couple weeks old:=20 > >>=20 > >> FreeBSD-src-15.snap20250721134219 System userland source code=20 > >> FreeBSD-src-sys-15.snap20250721123655 System kernel source code=20 > >=20 > >> And if I run pkg info | grep 202508 I see nothing.=20 > >>=20 > >> When I reinstall pkg, I get a warning about my userland being out of d= ate, but I can't seem to get anything newer from pkgbase.=20 > >>=20 > >> Is there something I'm missing here? What am I doing wrong?=20 > >=20 > > I don't know the reason, but there are no newer packages available. Che= ck: > >=20 > > https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:15:amd64/base_latest/ > >=20 > > But updated pkgbase packages won't resolve the Apache issue. >=20 > I think they will. I think that missing library is the result of > building packages against a base tree that has MIT kerberos in place > instead of Heimdal. Did you see the UPDATING entry I referenced? >=20 > And, after a little more reading, it looks like something in > production broke the ability for pkgbase trees to be built, and the > only person who can fix it is on vacation. (No criticism, it's a > volunteer project, life happens, whatever). >=20 > Of course, what I could do now is update the system via git, > but....same exact error. There are two relevant commits: 1. Switch from Heimdal to MIT KRB5: 2. Version bump of MIT KRB5 libraries (121 -> 122): The available pkgbase packages were built before commit #1 and ship Heimdal, e.g: libkrb5.so.11 Latest main (that includes commit #2) ships MIT KRB5, e.g. libkrb5.so.122 The ports packages were built between the two commits and the curl package on your system wants libkrb5.so.121. So rebuilding ports (e.g: ftp/curl) should resolve the Apache issue. main-n279346-62e5a3629483: $ ldd `which curl` |grep libkrb5.so libkrb5.so.122 =3D> /usr/lib/libkrb5.so.122 (0x87c71c20000) From nobody Wed Aug 6 16:45:16 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxx4J4sqKz63xpH for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 16:45:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com (mail-wm1-x32c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxx4H5n2Xz3WXF for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 16:45:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=submonkey-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=kbrQXQCA; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ceri@submonkey.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::32c) smtp.mailfrom=ceri@submonkey.net; dmarc=none Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-459e72abdd2so833025e9.2 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:45:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=submonkey-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1754498727; x=1755103527; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=5GuQ0KvfKhniaGTwyxeyjeYZyc9vYVYMPjqXxCAsDNc=; b=kbrQXQCAZxyDfCMNwzgwroBybsSyZU8b3OzLN80DJFTXBHMkBZQmxfMBj4bU4/pzjT XIS0gfI4oFcOrknHF2RDkdIdEP8Q0EDUUFet2ZbtD2mGwsQxNxhADo4qNoZvMsGsYSik aFZtCzUinlqiUaFtwwuxWZyF7P0thFP3uawohi1snRw0a9bz4SFKUVa2UYCTIbX3Zt/Z kNzXORUK8S7QeS2Ub2Z0oWYBVj+IqAOh7nMlonF6RrvmDTKa4LnnquGdBlnuJwQOoqwQ 9fos6PAzr1s9vJHynYtxqkT3bpV2ro9zoQsmzeIGnBeSuBL34JSw/8vW+3CaeqDHhKI1 2wpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754498727; x=1755103527; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5GuQ0KvfKhniaGTwyxeyjeYZyc9vYVYMPjqXxCAsDNc=; b=hXEFEwBEQlN5+rRrzOonRyjw7s6p1CaN1VC03HiBktBQGw02rbx+EHaPqAdY3qDy2g KGZEqrsTf7skLDgYeynlA7SwDw0afp49BlRxvT6mgUx4CwAvLPtydmpnSzKEyJ93nEB3 np6/YD61J1hH1Oo7gyxHVAP3z/2/a6H7eLR0JjnExnIYCnqJ/PqzX0WJz84uHWKSJwS9 PDeVkTNet+QN1EhcqzYJ/YaNfFqaP37nD7d82tWA8EpIjltROR5g5Urbq1If/b36wgI8 zA8G9aU3faWmOQ4cJ2zrWy502e0dfQoeg1BV/vZpYqbLZmjoZsG7sRVLbqztn/4ACQ4l 8Dlg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz7iUGjz2t1MRhpGgiVCDNQvQTYdOsW0FBdN/O6LrtLaQAs7/H2 MXOY5BLe91eia/gmuZJU5Ud6ZxhM+xNBY/fefmSDbyKXOQOu6Xy1HSS37mMcsMyCcqbA7Lhuoek 0SzXCim0= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctyQYYOFFUCXFV0NIabpnoya9YaYKo0xnOVm/CeiUoXbxUmX/1rEUkBKMut3n2 2CMDts8fs+VDocD69GB/nWNeRkWdeG2RntyQ08b0OWtg5p9hM/yKpFS3YTrQkWTjXUQFaMi5wi3 BlGX1uYu1p3i/ev91dwV6HGxosP4lkcQYNH9ilAPLYJ+IpAZJYoNRnMpujH25AL1rQxbcXmjnGb 7ocRCNuHP/5MXfG6dEOh9+lm2s2e3iLnz9vZoy6W4nEWoh282WasnAGvnA6j6Lc0JjbqXDCCNha Olilku0kP4wH4rxTgu+xZ/wYr2Dpux8hKTsvCHC9hQeqPQJqLmKZybka12JyFYPYNwoXkX/F3Rj rQAEmgg5XxFptgUZbD65gFUVkMe73XmLp9LVIwprF74Zvp8BrORPgbTGMJucq+fxtAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IESYXyTnbeVdfS3aAhVF0FyM3DPolGUcqymBKgAcWmSsuEWH5Oe6kSlWAUad5SuLV7hDCWIbg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2283:b0:3b7:8128:161 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3b8f41b2cb6mr3469287f8f.3.1754498727238; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host-80-42-172-59.as13285.net. [80.42.172.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-459e586eef8sm54476165e9.21.2025.08.06.09.45.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 09:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ceri Davies List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 17:45:16 +0100 Message-Id: <7E69E694-963C-4D69-B5B5-891330FF16A2@submonkey.net> References: Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: To: vermaden X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22G86) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[submonkey-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[submonkey-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[submonkey.net]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[ceri]; APPLE_IOS_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::32c:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxx4H5n2Xz3WXF X-Spamd-Bar: --- > On 30 Jul 2025, at 01:28, vermaden wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFHi, >=20 > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >=20 > I got REALLY concerned. >=20 > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'un= touchable' Base System. >=20 > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >=20 > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >=20 > Consider this command: >=20 > # pkg delete -af >=20 > What it does? >=20 > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without to= uching the FreeBSD Base System. >=20 > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >=20 > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only tw= o PKGBASE packages called: >=20 > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime >=20 > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. >=20 > You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected Fre= eBSD-rescue package and its also removed. >=20 > WTF?! >=20 > POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is t= he POLA now? > Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without P= KGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* l= iterally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? Because that=E2=80=99s what you asked for. Why would the command do anythin= g other than that? If it did not, what command should and would you oppose i= t existing? Ceri=20= From nobody Wed Aug 6 17:40:36 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bxyJ12SBlz641HQ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 17:40:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo73.interia.pl (smtpo73.interia.pl [217.74.67.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bxyJ06G44z3dZ4; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 17:40:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2025 19:40:36 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Ceri Davies Cc: "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <7E69E694-963C-4D69-B5B5-891330FF16A2@submonkey.net> References: <7E69E694-963C-4D69-B5B5-891330FF16A2@submonkey.net> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754502040; bh=yTYOqzOYh5xOWB/Z5nZEWcQWfh6+0cK3dSq8VNZDF/I=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Q5TPEYJ9xuShW0rKXhYz9sgomBS4k1x050+wZ8IMPU8CvnXL3Ng6xx3amhRBj2kIp XpEk1OiZnKoOkrMEhzuALsQW6uOptPGYklHPDw5ucddHnl2J1Qb8LounSW8uucyv49 X9mFn0dK+y9GudElu9ohENyCjq58O2hgr310qPRE= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bxyJ06G44z3dZ4 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] > Because that=E2=80=99s what you asked for. > Why would the command do anything other than that? > If it did not, what command should and would you oppose it existing? The problem is that the same 'pkg delete -af' command - will behave DIFFERE= NTLY with PKGBASE and without PKGBASE on the same FreeBSD version system - = that is the center of the problem. Everyone that use FreeBSD got used to the fact that pkg(8) command maintain= s only third party packages and Base System is untouched. With current stat= e of PKGBASE FreeBSD is no different then a Linux distribution with yum/dnf= /apt package manager - the Base System 'security' is broken. Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-06 18:45 Nadawca: "Ceri Davies" <ceri@submonkey.net> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 DW: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@fr= eebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org;=20 >> On 30 Jul 2025, at 01:28, vermaden wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFHi, >>=20 >> after short discussion here: >> - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >>=20 >> I got REALLY concerned. >>=20 >> One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. >>=20 >> Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >>=20 >> But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >>=20 >> Consider this command: >>=20 >> # pkg delete -af >>=20 >> What it does? >>=20 >> It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. >>=20 >> What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >>=20 >> It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: >>=20 >> - FreeBSD-clibs >> - FreeBSD-runtime >>=20 >> All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. >>=20 >> You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected FreeBSD-rescue package and its also removed. >>=20 >> WTF?! >>=20 >> POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is the POLA now? >> Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? >=20 > Because that=E2=80=99s what you asked for. Why would the command do anything other than that? 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[80.42.172.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-459ded356b9sm128016225e9.12.2025.08.06.14.10.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 14:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ceri Davies List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 22:10:41 +0100 Message-Id: <742CE190-C37F-4665-874E-E3851060E18D@submonkey.net> References: Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: To: vermaden X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22G86) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by2yY3yXnz3FYn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] > On 6 Aug 2025, at 18:40, vermaden wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >> Because that=E2=80=99s what you asked for. >> Why would the command do anything other than that? >> If it did not, what command should and would you oppose it existing? >=20 > The problem is that the same 'pkg delete -af' command - will behave DIFFER= ENTLY with PKGBASE and without PKGBASE on the same FreeBSD version system - t= hat is the center of the problem. >=20 No, it has the same behaviour. The result on the system may be different, but that is true of many, many co= mmands that make assumptions about the existing configuration of a system. 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[192.0.220.237]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-7077ca3c73asm90273236d6.32.2025.08.06.14.17.21 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 14:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 17:17:19 -0400 From: Mark Johnston To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd-update and pkgbase Message-ID: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.84 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[markj@freebsd.org,markjdb@gmail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.24)[-0.241]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed),none]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[markj@freebsd.org,markjdb@gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by35z5vDsz3GQ2 X-Spamd-Bar: - The future of freebsd-update post 15.0 isn't totally clear. There have been proposals to remove it in 15.0. IMO we can't remove it outright, since may be needed in order to upgrade 13.x and 14.x jails on a 15.0 host. It is also a shame to lose a simple upgrade utility that is well-documented and that many users are familiar with; compare "freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE" with the upgrade instructions on the pkgbase wiki page. pkgbase offers a lot of flexibility but I suspect many users don't need it; they need a one-shot "upgrade my system, please" utility that will automatically create a boot environment, configure pkg repositories as needed for major/minor/security upgrades, fetch packages, and handle package installation order (i.e., kernel first, followed by a reboot). I don't really think this functionality belongs in pkg itself. So, seeing as freebsd-update already handles some of the above, and users are already familiar with it, I propose extending freebsd-update to work in a pkgbase world. Users would be free to not use it and instead use pkg directly if they so desire, but this would provide a simple alternative to those who don't want or need that flexibility. I'm going to try implementing this, if only to see if there are any unexpected issues that come up. Feedback would be appreciated, both on the proposal itself and on any technical hurdles you see. Aside from the internal changes needed to make freebsd-update subcommands use pkg, I see a few tasks and requirements: - freebsd-update should be able to bootstrap pkgbase; in practice, I think this means that we should import pkgbaseify and make freebsd-update able to run it if the user so requests. - freebsd-update should possibly live in its own pkgbase package so that it can upgrade itself before the rest of the system. - freebsd-update should configure a pkgbase repository using a file in /etc/pkg, disabled by default so that regular "pkg upgrade" doesn't try to touch the base system. I'm not sure yet how repository configurations should be managed: should they be dynamically generated, or should we provide some bundle of configurations (e.g., one for every supported release), or? - We need to figure out how to handle freebsd-update.conf options which don't make sense in a pkgbase world. From nobody Wed Aug 6 21:54:35 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4by3x51F5qz64GbW; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 21:54:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4by3x45t6Pz3MPr; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 21:54:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2025 23:54:35 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Ceri Davies Cc: "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <742CE190-C37F-4665-874E-E3851060E18D@submonkey.net> References: <742CE190-C37F-4665-874E-E3851060E18D@submonkey.net> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754517279; bh=o0ACDJN+AMM/Oz3EpGJyESFONq9juOn8pwngu4QojL8=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=bL4UsIClWDwfbwvA0xDnzl+S7X5iIiXDPjVNiZLxKISP39wImpyn6ZGM8g4tI8kW7 Q9NdD5ftr6+wyoBeByoAQzk8syscr/X3D8yhTJfZ2/+cPK6V55345se3aDOZGzgdoG sIox2gpSFV12yKZxDTs9mhRgCYx7tTVrsByeAqek= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by3x45t6Pz3MPr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] > No, it has the same behaviour. English is not my primary language so I will try to explain in more simple = words as you probably did not understood. NOPE. It DOES NOT has the same behavior. Situation A. A.1. You have FreeBSD 15-CURRENT installed in 'classic' way. A.2. You issue this command: # pkg delete -af A.3. All Third Party packages are deleted from your system. A.4. You FreeBSD 15-CURRENT Base System remain UNTOUCHED. Situation B. B.1. You have FreeBSD 15-CURRENT installed in 'PKGBSD' way. B.2. You issue this command: # pkg delete -af B.3. All Third Party packages are deleted from your system. B.4. You FreeBSD 15-CURRENT Base System is REMOVED with only 2/290 packages= UNTOUCHED Details here: - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485#issuecomment-3133359219 Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-06 23:11 Nadawca: "Ceri Davies" <ceri@submonkey.net> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 DW: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org;=20 >> On 6 Aug 2025, at 18:40, vermaden wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >>>=20 >>> Because that=E2=80=99s what you asked for. >>> Why would the command do anything other than that? >>> If it did not, what command should and would you oppose it existing? >>=20 >> The problem is that the same 'pkg delete -af' command - will behave DIFFERENTLY with PKGBASE and without PKGBASE on the same FreeBSD version system - that is the center of the problem. >>=20 >=20 > No, it has the same behaviour. >=20 > The result on the system may be different, but that is true of many, many commands that make assumptions about the existing configuration of a system. >=20 > Ceri >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Aug 6 22:13:22 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4by4Lt2rPJz64Hh1 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:13:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com (mail-wm1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4by4Ls6rw8z3RTM for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:13:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-451d41e1ad1so2428975e9.1 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:13:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=submonkey-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1754518414; x=1755123214; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=xp8hdrEDQMalZmW2EU5iKBveN5f9suCr4Jq0WUXpSeQ=; b=we2Sahg4FekpXKxY8p7RumfM1aNNIxEbHngyhBZi6oQ3xzOZOgLQjm2/9WAOeMKxnW W+iLEXrpnJFxxslqJwL46V9WNMEqGo4ay+HnKtVXLK8Pj7wcvulKZwCUAcpN3bfsavCJ 211dtR9SUNDUgExz/yos7MCCmntuwvXGpQHJfHPBzcbE5QF+adllr0+NSGznkaRok9GA x1rktiNATjZ4EcKhWnF2Sba7spsuNN7Cw915lUnjkWkPFNMSkwMv0YRyIVU75JHvqWjp Y2FAWWaGQoED7Pv2AN1aL7bAs3ppn7mnjjIaGVAGGAujrPvqIF0drbdrtvIx8zQEDpnP DicQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754518414; x=1755123214; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xp8hdrEDQMalZmW2EU5iKBveN5f9suCr4Jq0WUXpSeQ=; b=R90pbbV7SiVNXIuvwAvSxknnZHVf/mFKxSoSZsdg5M8tc/DMTUi1Tj9gd5qN1gvAaW Y/Oen6CwmjTBjObzZxyMgotLuM3MejSlz6KCPxmLY1CjMKvTFMVhiBfYTbzx29JFXeUP nDA31Lv3++x3K7jTw00XHdr/vQkN+vfW8BoIL0FW2WQYOY2H5S5gtE7Kx9PEJUx+3yDJ cEYSh5NYAIaMspoZr0ICVpXnmvZZK4te4+SkV0/iXMlvm/gXZlRhic+TaMEIuCGCRZMw pBl+7iBcyB8HpbPcOz62IQWDcGBe6YxpGSV1wk3owQn0iCJN0q05uNCjKLsULJyI8Jlq 950Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzbjsRKmgW6Qn4BHubzrfSmFp/T0iYi0VEyeTd4SaSwYCfZ5oQu AB94+1aLH+ope7ddczCCoJDtXml0l06KRQfd9xohciht8YYo9lyiIr0+fbmoakQVYgc= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsMTlprUSHiZlWY8Fa2WG0q9qjQKiJ0n2ICE1UuDwkxsol1Ky0/n1ZdjzSohX4 uu9SgJbI8gdeS13rWQpqzjLWvvWNF0GQPXxpPntEtk2R5KRR4wbZzGgzNNEb8jnZIt4cNCuoDqX 4r+XvPqDHjwCsaKDjj7JV3wiAIz0cBq4jBgyR7DjCHm8Up2sdIFx/MV62dnuDaVm+g/FiTbjIWy ZRMwb/YgO/VmQMML/vmQRy3e+iV/3ZHsoK7BZ8uot9kM53ZGWapttZ4pPB33mWcRSJ8x9qynGCr WmplcAJBcYlbGlE8urVNKAFtOvj/G8+7Qyc/p8/Zs7ZCgs9cBjUN2KZSdW33azAqzzXJzacIYWP f3OEvkeWgHY/WK5A1KkkByU+kOH6uD6yTrvkpw6dl5s281Vdeop1AkS0fAs/jciw1yA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEdxSW4Epm3MOqvhU1f/fiQKmPDowi19BBh4BVjX6Pnyho/OI3r4sQDbveFdZb/M4zb0CIc9g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1c9b:b0:43c:ec4c:25b4 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-459ee8171c7mr5239185e9.10.1754518413477; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host-80-42-172-59.as13285.net. [80.42.172.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3b79c3bc12csm24945045f8f.28.2025.08.06.15.13.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ceri Davies List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 23:13:22 +0100 Message-Id: References: Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: To: vermaden X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22G86) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by4Ls6rw8z3RTM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] > On 6 Aug 2025, at 22:54, vermaden wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >> No, it has the same behaviour. >=20 > English is not my primary language so I will try to explain in more simple= words as you probably did not understood. >=20 > NOPE. >=20 > It DOES NOT has the same behavior. In each case it forcibly deletes all the packages from your system, like you= asked. I understood you fine, I just disagree that this is a shocking result when y= ou have specified the =E2=80=9Call=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cforce=E2=80=9D flag= s. In fact it is exactly what that command is documented to do and therefor= e is very far from a violation of the principle of least astonishment. Ceri >>=20 From nobody Wed Aug 6 22:21:32 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4by4X31smvz64J2x; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:21:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo73.interia.pl (smtpo73.interia.pl [217.74.67.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4by4X26MKZz3RnN; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:21:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2025 00:21:32 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Ceri Davies Cc: "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754518897; bh=dwxUzjh9YvX0lQikjfrfaADN2Dz9q4LCBC96nIMkt2s=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cQyCWt/za5dtbO+sFUg+jZXwNPBklV/asyxJ8fYtHie6D3WemtNJ5zxxsEyKIvirr 4jmoOEduw7K58DUMbnyLfxZCEQdFP4q4EKSn2slJ0waq560eIwzcFapoIuMrVCIHpz 13M/O/iOzJgh+OUUE3slVY4igLr1cXaQGF39aR+Y= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by4X26MKZz3RnN X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] So You still do not understand ... The pkg(8) command works fine - its just NOT SUPPOSE to DESTROY most of the= FreeBSD Base System - because FreeBSD is not Linux to allow shit like that= ... Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-07 0:13 Nadawca: "Ceri Davies" <ceri@submonkey.net> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 DW: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@f= reebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org;=20 >> On 6 Aug 2025, at 22:54, vermaden wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >>>=20 >>> No, it has the same behaviour. >>=20 >> English is not my primary language so I will try to explain in more simple words as you probably did not understood. >>=20 >> NOPE. >>=20 >> It DOES NOT has the same behavior. >=20 > In each case it forcibly deletes all the packages from your system, like you asked. >=20 > I understood you fine, I just disagree that this is a shocking result when you have specified the =E2=80=9Call=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cforce=E2=80= =9D flags. In fact it is exactly what that command is documented to do and therefore is very far from a violation of the principle of least astonishment. >=20 > Ceri >>>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Aug 6 22:21:34 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4by4X64q4xz64J32 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:21:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darren.henderson@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4by4X60Gd9z3SLL for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:21:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darren.henderson@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7e638975262so60222085a.0 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:21:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1754518896; x=1755123696; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from :content-language:references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5VJSFYWOobKsNMh5pjqDvbge6RLEa+4Y1EMWQADBr5Q=; b=ec8jAmt3yEwaq4TdLx8Su3lIcbT56cHmxmUriWHeiJTNrc6wsJf1a+QWhvJm9HFJAJ xILfXXsPqxBwSTzWV8IoULDCV/lWmjYh0IPbY2I4876KXaMIfU5joI0xxr/Vpzk1tznb ZEATg5CUuY46y6vXyhG3Z9Whmr32Tt5+gbxeMN4A5H1fwpeLMBBf/OMP1WP4SEtXdLmz 6QuEbskxfiCO7rSRH2W/OOki/z47mA8WzCrAuSBoRP6+LV9t6rSe7HsGAVDDfzlNcZrf 4FhiTWUObuvAJ7S9Qmo8ImJ70DTLAgijFpb05x6MpP4mB/0TrM4n8r2yWm2saKABC3ZW WcJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754518896; x=1755123696; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:autocrypt:from :content-language:references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version :date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=5VJSFYWOobKsNMh5pjqDvbge6RLEa+4Y1EMWQADBr5Q=; b=jqVYA+MUWtBRJwh0Eu7Cpliaht4BxeE97dYAPIbHS8H76TYa+N//Fthc9g+c7nRprn U5tVihExPzy3TIfG8yD1QeqxNNvT6+2PHC3k47TIb1H4kMVLy6IPX01CotzXycVppfGj ARESTU3bmUQz0agiBMxiXpOUoVIQuG2spDKr1wUKFkD5ko7EYdy5FjefGohh08G1vSz4 OLnNptwDdTMNbKNRVuK52IPatr7fA7tVziIb/KWmx++x4BC1sqQVUUH+A+uhU8nASuws IV/DUT/h3eec8JOCuTlGy/lx7lhrmCOKvtwaEOCMvwOSF1ppCxY+DYVDIc+2emsqpxVL WyIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzfQPAhSMK+scG4+FZbBxW3lDXCckwdZ/k1rmyPZIpPZ1yus6/x Lq4zQ9P+C3wirzjHHVmWjgvgz24df5XNLci6IRoofugKTa07rNsZQok6dvqUgQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsg54C899GWZ/HWensaMhZed6e2+hd10nnIvvCV26P1z8Kd6pDt9O2t/e2TBRR X5zrBf8+AvHsaicGnDSnYtTJSJsmBCMSWT4KIMTggE3gCWvMwLVM3bXkHOwptnNPiJt77peCYXw 0GzfloWraDVYakdZdI+ffMTrjIL9tWdS3c8Z6sCuvwSisugCxxupaKcuGP5EfT39RS4Rm5U5U2S 5Euf5GxAdHmEAt5NTkBdnA+/+SpjXcOWxhPWCnvHb8450f9LZwAaFtqfYfAilJkMlTv4R2CwGmO eWb36xP+tWvJpF97ciACou31ZJNEOsUZCji2C78WYEWb40x7wFifJZlsikgwKKrCBxF9swc92GL sAAoK1m/+mAcUm1sVNP2SaLGddJAgZfguF3qrq6Nv0SY+Ad9ZZkrEpRlq5A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFEAJjdh1qkhZTyPCqtik/U6MaKHj4zuJLUmUdhgQ3RXgiXU0rV8Wv+qQvw7iTeRZwyitAtRQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1192:b0:7e8:b54:782e with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7e814e36afcmr552568285a.44.1754518895757; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.17.0.11] (nighttide.net. [64.223.192.211]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7e67f75596dsm881228585a.76.2025.08.06.15.21.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0124906a-a19e-4068-a198-bea029810ea3@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 18:21:34 -0400 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" Cc: vermaden References: <7E69E694-963C-4D69-B5B5-891330FF16A2@submonkey.net> Content-Language: en-US From: Darren Henderson Autocrypt: addr=darren.henderson@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFiou5oBEACruBRieOQ4IDz0ybQeHm+GSA04ckSsHsFsC5fIEMJiRf5hW5XQ8aMU78VX Khp9MFB769a2K5oz45vlfnhRYZQ/jK5ABq7yC3IzzyLhknYXtAPnCBjvHMa811O0/ZHwVWSk JPOZxDTFJzFd+SNeHVXz03M6UfEJ963hj78oF3bcR8ou3+GScGcSGeHdf1UYsPDOus1uUIo4 8pjIp0P9mCy+OffUIGm06lQCeq/w0YTXJ1V4wBBm83J5Lbdrwzb1KUHJqCs/QovpduIgjav0 bwPQjqzNi20tVlZwwnQasJ06anWQGC/pQSxwC8/EjeM8xtun0pXmCcEaVZf5Cul26p9dMe5W WNzi+5edIirXvdnFscoROiT7QPU5IRj+Mvq2oOQ0tN4gnAnlhInS31yilcpP6RelA1de+1Wk JsIJ8dgG0pmEYyMNByrumulQ2zZ8yAvN8LYiVD5WVfrEsnrUvifMi0/kBAJmBvQNtNk62hP9 O0jIfnERtcnzAdNZbCIR8C42ZbJ50vZhUkWrvmYja6pDeFync4jd9c/RT8to6AgK4NbMN9K+ Rkp85v5PTeIdjfRTjFXOV0HDGi/SmyfgXSpfGsTkAzZvZO+3TacAc3yWnBVL7zXdgq3dIgII tShoKronNeFj9Qzygsvo0NF3l6nadS391eDP9SQK29Ry8OTZIwARAQABzS1EYXJyZW4gSGVu ZGVyc29uIDxkYXJyZW4uaGVuZGVyc29uQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwY4EEwEIADgWIQRRbTdstlJ2 L0k6UCPYhvzxDD9nTQUCWKi7mgIbAwULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDYhvzx DD9nTZXYD/4h/rE+qayd/3NHHDdhOt4IKb+a+/xrIdLoG+0S1fWslHYxdej9hBH9ISBEGxfQ 1Wo6FMnvTYufQHYfFdJKVXky7z4SsEsiO1pRP/v9BNHD264YHHd9zuG+j4SGWFJKnj76PX8o KoeIsgYXzvf/5qo+/vIX8Qrm73VTOQ9jCucXehIIjfTagis1PDn12jTKWlEV664ErUgG3KY2 Ljq0039HW1ThkY10VQtkWcQ9jqLipbYpnrL11eisC5FwMh0NHy/gi0dwlG1HikzUFkRfnYfT GbWhECGttYhgyBYjjZLyJc4YAYTynls5NfuYHQGGQKp05laUnYzf6WLHxPb8IsMrUzOLzXRd DOZmpk20q+4qz9ZLQsqs0LqfVer7bj9RldfqvfJJgcKsJ22hAdCF62K+bjykbXP1VC7KlYcP irNsPraHH5HPHeO3qm7vZ5JpXmqcrmsaCtpj2e8qNbt8GnbfkIf/ysGqcH0IOPtgO7AewLVd tO1BcXr5fPaznY5RXLJUerMBTaFma7nkAsAdvyi4yp2D5YZvZ7jvoNj/uP2597Lx+Lm8p/Hw L/D3m+BP79oBwUj+Eh3VRBAJn0DkBxuxHQzqdrBCslpRzQT7GkDML3KpEHN3PJR9r+1+0exD hES3YcgMrvnwMcXYgh5lCKXK7MvLFxS1EfmBkxMaBlmvZc7BTQRYqLuaARAA5Yjyml76KUkN iitvqPohdIOkFsYuT0cM6UTFSXGIPzlaBMs7LMYdCAZhtiKHSsuWlWrbdhuFZEyXMJYzBXOH hfs4nDa98UGfnsXJXsq5LVVr3E4Jjm0ZsAO7yHbzUcn/zLhZGIQTV8EgY2yXSOMQVp98y9gA AHT10gOemlVD/KW3xOAJFFWUYrYePeyu89D4LWWjrJjF4Xn0Pj+1gprT6mgiWDXTja526ify mgx0BSZo8dO37hacbRPHPIePU50+vfdBPkaAL3u7+sxf/44IfhLGoQrWfCD0+6YhwPmMzVGG q9oldrbXH8wKhRjfR4V3C+S7Eu6JCMsK90g46Oag3uYERGR01x5hiSlWdZefYgM0aGtOUQSQ 9AFrvoUTP7MpT60ETToO4cqC4VNeTYM+yGXlGS6FqfykrR/cOMVYbaKwF6jLOpsZiocqHP4f mKWeLhTVkvlb/8vSN5fFGn03eKEMY2AwFZp//wUrT0Jm/ftFSRySJQDOUphZtUTUtuEXfeXF R4r/bRJdRNTClpjVkCDQJQ7BHZqYJYyIpxPFC+ldO/QiqCEkKTzGswMUzfe7rT/NvFUy1bPF +bMfRi1sHzl5ZwYEI2HfdXElTPAgvoVrXGPeeYwqPb7OCgvp68tSwHvOaYWzjcYAq/+5NgAE VvJtqOnb2Ik5AIH5ji828asAEQEAAcLBdgQYAQgAIBYhBFFtN2y2UnYvSTpQI9iG/PEMP2dN BQJYqLuaAhsMAAoJENiG/PEMP2dNcTAP/i1x1jl3pOhoHnEI3gA5EXpF+e2AefL3KRPDgVwE C1LdLBNLHIZW/0HuL/tikbyzgQE8MA/GciwwMn35aM2tzWQbeYo587kN3HXi4mZ8t8+PnwwG gt1L21d0RRdxSABWcDQBYE+2/Cxa8MW5ifDRKJJc6hmLXGWQ/b3jQ20Z20PTgQsmRg1kJ7Sa rn+HZYGNQrAyTcwC3EDtNDTccJE4fX9jM18jU9DQPGlmutloP9HJXc8SHFcnjb82XZ4zPZ1X vGoOgs9pCyKRDIFkXEGsghbTN6LPEThQK+UTV+tJ/e/9PSTqFxDCTLGTiqkIbFHB3icmdnGp 4wRWa/pitHAcEiiYwUKnXHsdIosW9rmK/ZKUh0b6v+GmJQMga0tJsZxpcWS9FUZxhDs/0Hdz bVOe/e4ae4xpHA3wndUcDtzGywoSxEeAYx0eS+3+cVwM6JIXP6yy5d6hZ/K8ipr3adQ46/3r E3hQG4CxHTiR2Rd80A8gpyXL15fL+dNfd0On2QfNT8ztu2zYlbp1MbsGkYWKX+Kfa8c2XZ/h E0B1YVch2oSLiBm9FcBHkpxmUkmyY2XxElZiqXDmGi7KSiJtm7LONFePRoQhQKrAN8uZyFt7 NHOQiI3XcTLWXt6wqbzuKxIl+FW90JOE4FzJQiR9Hjj3gpVmobsdb3fTiAYGNByygDSK In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by4X60Gd9z3SLL X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On 8/6/2025 1:40 PM, vermaden wrote: >> Because that’s what you asked for. >> Why would the command do anything other than that? >> If it did not, what command should and would you oppose it existing? > The problem is that the same 'pkg delete -af' command - will behave DIFFERENTLY with PKGBASE and without PKGBASE on the same FreeBSD version system - that is the center of the problem. > > Everyone that use FreeBSD got used to the fact that pkg(8) command maintains only third party packages and Base System is untouched. With current state of PKGBASE FreeBSD is no different then a Linux distribution with yum/dnf/apt package manager - the Base System 'security' is broken The suggestion re the addition of "pkgbase" command, using its own configuration files, is the best, most straightforward,  fix for those of us who have qualms with the current implementation. The back-end stuff doesn't really need to change as far as I can see. But keeping the base separated is paramount. If for some reason that is beyond the pale, another solution would be to add a new directive to the repository configuration syntax that allows us to exclude a given repo from the pkg default actions. Something like 'OnlyWhenSpecified: "yes"' or 'ExcludeFromDefaults: "yes"'. Terrible names but I expect something better could be found. The effect should be that the given repo is only operated on when the -R argument calls for the associated repo directly.  So "pkg upgrade" would operate on all repos except the repos that have that setting.  Think of it as an 'ENABLED' but with restrictions. The exclusion should be the default for the config that's being tagged as FreeBSD-base. From nobody Wed Aug 6 22:22:09 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4by4Xz1xDGz64JLd for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:22:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-f53.google.com (mail-ej1-f53.google.com [209.85.218.53]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4by4Xy29btz3TWh; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 22:22:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-f53.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-af910372ab3so253998666b.1; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:22:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754518942; x=1755123742; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zBwIaNjph900wt3+p7XgACIujPkhWzEgxJA6DiCExFE=; b=eh7vtw389xKWjbvenPXcCBSZ3lJjc8F3+YLStKlLnPmLAMsF0gDvmrlJnmosFXvyXJ hJe1oS8J0ZFL+HUrhM7bUTTftLPJRDn7N/bIoylzHr29HkIgk5WOv1u0/Go8TpRpWnof oATgkdCb3Hwi7PrivSyq2jiO6h/DBC+rrozOfV+MD9XbjrtiQU5RxLD7RO1siG3+yLfa r2Dbvws7mOBojauHCkIwh1iIswkJdoi66BX8vZFr1GcIwdBfFeF2iNXnyip/M6Utjowa l2EWuLAnuGU+8RSRX0pQyznZbsIGxqrzXoJW7Xtlsx8h7MEeBmSQ/cmANGPu14i5gqBV FLtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx0f0rWyUcid/IzY/mUEJRYwJMjV/9RlkeqYJxR2IkVNbBT+K6l LBYf7UsL4cELnJaaU3drjh6h9+XEYsPixg899bQVfvgHZqJLtX5TIWc3H6LFXGI6nr31ZqTy3bM BriSfSfuydLc+b3Z/1lx9/PJ+MaUcD1ikLw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuOE1Y+zw4XVnOu8SPwLw5JnExLqhbR940D276vVVHVT2aHkTeep94tMxYhJDg NzeSpk4HSy4j+Yp5n6Lru2GRe97sLmLsPGfTpDFa8mjyKLdD1iaoVaGteqXfAAOc3xC1qOepaQI 6FuxExSAwpc6WiiDXMOa9I4amF1Cfmf3hA4LvlkM5Sp4WJfJlLrJZ5SO+42MsZx5o4Q7cRqanpv q9NP1c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHQePb+jvibeFEMVZigBwz9fXTTUGWamS4DBJ5XAQ+mU2uofRyv6qbNG6TC/rP0kQJHoA+47F0DBxyjgMcXZwI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:97cc:b0:af9:41a4:25b3 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-af9a3ee84f6mr104484166b.29.1754518941719; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:22:21 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alan Somers Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 16:22:09 -0600 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXxEdyaTduRWElism8vO5cwWAWH5aFjrUesHqujx46sHJLocSBiritWTc2s Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd-update and pkgbase To: Mark Johnston Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000045e242063bb9c6dc" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by4Xy29btz3TWh X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] --00000000000045e242063bb9c6dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 3:17=E2=80=AFPM Mark Johnston wr= ote: > The future of freebsd-update post 15.0 isn't totally clear. There have > been proposals to remove it in 15.0. IMO we can't remove it outright, > since may be needed in order to upgrade 13.x and 14.x jails on a 15.0 > host. It is also a shame to lose a simple upgrade utility that is > well-documented and that many users are familiar with; compare > "freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE" with the upgrade instructions > on the pkgbase wiki page. > > pkgbase offers a lot of flexibility but I suspect many users don't need > it; they need a one-shot "upgrade my system, please" utility that will > automatically create a boot environment, configure pkg repositories as > needed for major/minor/security upgrades, fetch packages, and handle > package installation order (i.e., kernel first, followed by a reboot). > > I don't really think this functionality belongs in pkg itself. So, > seeing as freebsd-update already handles some of the above, and users > are already familiar with it, I propose extending freebsd-update to work > in a pkgbase world. Users would be free to not use it and instead use > pkg directly if they so desire, but this would provide a simple > alternative to those who don't want or need that flexibility. > > I'm going to try implementing this, if only to see if there are any > unexpected issues that come up. Feedback would be appreciated, both on > the proposal itself and on any technical hurdles you see. Aside from > the internal changes needed to make freebsd-update subcommands use pkg, > I see a few tasks and requirements: > - freebsd-update should be able to bootstrap pkgbase; in practice, I > think this means that we should import pkgbaseify and make > freebsd-update able to run it if the user so requests. > - freebsd-update should possibly live in its own pkgbase package so that > it can upgrade itself before the rest of the system. > - freebsd-update should configure a pkgbase repository using a file in > /etc/pkg, disabled by default so that regular "pkg upgrade" doesn't > try to touch the base system. I'm not sure yet how repository > configurations should be managed: should they be dynamically > generated, or should we provide some bundle of configurations (e.g., > one for every supported release), or? > - We need to figure out how to handle freebsd-update.conf options which > don't make sense in a pkgbase world. > This sounds like a great idea. You might consider switching to freebsd-rustdate, though. It's far faster and somewhat easier to use. It's probably more maintainable, too. --00000000000045e242063bb9c6dc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 3:17=E2=80=AFPM Mark J= ohnston <markj@freebsd.org> = wrote:
The futur= e of freebsd-update post 15.0 isn't totally clear.=C2=A0 There have
been proposals to remove it in 15.0.=C2=A0 IMO we can't remove it outri= ght,
since may be needed in order to upgrade 13.x and 14.x jails on a 15.0
host.=C2=A0 It is also a shame to lose a simple upgrade utility that is
well-documented and that many users are familiar with; compare
"freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE" with the upgrade instruc= tions
on the pkgbase wiki page.

pkgbase offers a lot of flexibility but I suspect many users don't need=
it; they need a one-shot "upgrade my system, please" utility that= will
automatically create a boot environment, configure pkg repositories as
needed for major/minor/security upgrades, fetch packages, and handle
package installation order (i.e., kernel first, followed by a reboot).

I don't really think this functionality belongs in pkg itself.=C2=A0 So= ,
seeing as freebsd-update already handles some of the above, and users
are already familiar with it, I propose extending freebsd-update to work in a pkgbase world.=C2=A0 Users would be free to not use it and instead use=
pkg directly if they so desire, but this would provide a simple
alternative to those who don't want or need that flexibility.

I'm going to try implementing this, if only to see if there are any
unexpected issues that come up.=C2=A0 Feedback would be appreciated, both o= n
the proposal itself and on any technical hurdles you see.=C2=A0 Aside from<= br> the internal changes needed to make freebsd-update subcommands use pkg,
I see a few tasks and requirements:
- freebsd-update should be able to bootstrap pkgbase; in practice, I
=C2=A0 think this means that we should import pkgbaseify and make
=C2=A0 freebsd-update able to run it if the user so requests.
- freebsd-update should possibly live in its own pkgbase package so that =C2=A0 it can upgrade itself before the rest of the system.
- freebsd-update should configure a pkgbase repository using a file in
=C2=A0 /etc/pkg, disabled by default so that regular "pkg upgrade"= ; doesn't
=C2=A0 try to touch the base system.=C2=A0 I'm not sure yet how reposit= ory
=C2=A0 configurations should be managed: should they be dynamically
=C2=A0 generated, or should we provide some bundle of configurations (e.g.,=
=C2=A0 one for every supported release), or?
- We need to figure out how to handle freebsd-update.conf options which
=C2=A0 don't make sense in a pkgbase world.

This sounds like a great idea.=C2=A0 You might consider switching = to freebsd-rustdate, though.=C2=A0 It's far faster and somewhat easier = to use.=C2=A0 It's probably more maintainable, too.=C2=A0
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[89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3b79c4533f1sm24853229f8f.42.2025.08.06.16.03.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 16:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------xNVZBNnpa4mBoD7WaeiR600j" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 00:03:52 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> <86qzxo6c7b.fsf@ltc.des.dev> Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: <86qzxo6c7b.fsf@ltc.des.dev> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.97 / 15.00]; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 06/08/2025 10:17, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Graham Perrin writes: >> The four lists are not the places for a debate. > You have no authority here. DES conveniently omitted the context. I meant, I'll not abuse the four lists with discussion of content that's off-topic from all four. --------------xNVZBNnpa4mBoD7WaeiR600j Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 06/08/2025 10:17, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote:
Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmail.com> writes:

The four lists are not the places for a debate.

You have no authority here.

DES conveniently omitted the context. 

I meant, I'll not abuse the four lists with discussion of content that's off-topic from all four. 

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[89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-459e58400f5sm65154965e9.2.2025.08.06.16.19.34 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 16:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------Q9AV0bWi0MnePoseYS9ZGURo" Message-ID: <0d0fbf1d-5400-4feb-9d6f-b1955bb84a9a@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 00:19:33 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" References: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 06/08/2025 10:30, vermaden wrote: > … Instructions work as desired - I upgraded dozens of systems this way over a decade and not a single one break. … Evidence of breakage has been presented more than once. When details were offered, in 2021, there was no response. --------------Q9AV0bWi0MnePoseYS9ZGURo Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-environments/>

On 06/08/2025 10:30, vermaden wrote: 
… Instructions work as desired - I upgraded dozens of systems this way over a decade and not a single one break. …

Evidence of breakage has been presented more than once. When details were offered, in 2021, there was no response. 

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[209.85.219.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-71b5a3a9ab2sm42718187b3.8.2025.08.06.16.43.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Aug 2025 16:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e8e2b50f8f1so453228276.0; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 16:43:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVUq/iHRZL23D3g28S1pAXe61oVtggtVYnfDKhxdo3uAD3zjqaND6RXJM8MGvfr1e4BifnSQ17wkKs1SYXcoxWO@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWL+gG1B0ZWHkmidkpyhwaGcKaq+gsztT7nlXUuPHGdHVtIQ/4rnYnBgvEuB7zOi+3zFtTjWi3lGuUc1bg=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWf4gC25b7okBzZWo5D2xC/y3a/KIRcY/N7vr3K10zBTpeBV6YqK3pVipy8FkgICn5g3zNX2Jo7H90zqo382Xs=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWrPAxMp/zGAWFcvzguT0lCRaZq4asiBRXerFyDEqLdEWuNcHE+Bshope7kW50rbPyZsM9H4xwFRF19pFCrlh0=@freebsd.org X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:150e:b0:e8b:c39a:3a70 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e902b8429d9mr4917644276.36.1754523818984; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 16:43:38 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 01:43:28 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXyF_m5weGcIz8NAks0yCWAIcHzas-Yekye59tqHaOybpDidChd7r9ouGmU Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: vermaden Cc: Ceri Davies , "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by6Lk6Bqjz3jym X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Thu, Aug 7, 2025 at 12:21=E2=80=AFAM vermaden wrot= e: > > So You still do not understand ... > > The pkg(8) command works fine - its just NOT SUPPOSE to DESTROY most of t= he FreeBSD Base System - because FreeBSD is not Linux to allow shit like th= at ... +1 =3D) Base and Userland should be clearly separated, as it was, as it is, no matter how it will be organized internally (i.e. modular base) :-) Maybe its worth thinking about some sort of standard minimal fallback environment (rescue?) when base gets broken for any reason (i.e. broken pkgbase, broken modules, fs corruption, broken hardware, accident) to either restore last working configuration or recreate defaults with/from what can be saved? :-) --=20 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From nobody Wed Aug 6 23:56:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4by6dv293Sz64P32 for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 23:56:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo73.interia.pl (smtpo73.interia.pl [217.74.67.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4by6dt5BBmz3mHH for ; Wed, 06 Aug 2025 23:56:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2025 01:56:47 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Graham Perrin , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <0d0fbf1d-5400-4feb-9d6f-b1955bb84a9a@gmail.com> References: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> <0d0fbf1d-5400-4feb-9d6f-b1955bb84a9a@gmail.com> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-unY40k5DWm8RNHqqpwac" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754524608; bh=ClxxX5SxCUdK8AsLWda7wN3qi45agFZwerF5N2wmizE=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=a0e8f+1Ebqz/p9Mg6MaMcRbk/BtXfObk94w5dNCv2GBzABQZEtgv+IIs/U6h0J0lB P9FrkwDxPcqBmtDd+hzKrFp6D2oD/FIkRI69ihrNcVx005/L/UnaALOyKDMRcEECc5 GMrU2HFwQsjQZZTB5pVa5LBREob2JkGltL3dlQAU= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by6dt5BBmz3mHH X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] --=-unY40k5DWm8RNHqqpwac Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you would understand what you were doing - there would be not 'breakage'= ...Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System FeatureData: 2025-08-07 = 1:19Nadawca: "Graham Perrin" <grahamperrin@gmail.com>Adresat: "freebs= d-pkgbase@freebsd.org" <freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org>; <https://ver= maden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-environments/&= gt;On 06/08/2025 10:30, vermaden wrote:=E2=80=A6 Instructions work as desir= ed - I upgraded dozens of systems this way over a decade and not a single o= ne break. =E2=80=A6Evidence of breakage has been presented more than once. = When details were offered, in 2021, there was no response.  --=-unY40k5DWm8RNHqqpwac Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you would understand what you were doing - there would = be not 'breakage' ...






Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature
Data: 2025-08= -07 1:19
Nadawca: "Graham Perrin" <grahamperrin@gmail.com>
Adre= sat: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" <freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org>;


<https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgr= ade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-environments/>

= On 06/08/2025 10:30, vermaden wrote:
=E2=80=A6 Instructions work as desired - I upgraded dozens of syste=
ms this way over a decade and not a single one break. =E2=80=A6

Evidence of breakage has been presented more than once. When deta= ils were offered, in 2021, there was no response.=C2=A0



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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 07/08/2025 00:56, vermaden wrote: > If you would understand what you were doing - there would be not > 'breakage' ... I do understand what I'm doing; it's off-topic from pkgbase. > Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature > Data: 2025-08-07 1:19 > Nadawca: "Graham Perrin" > Adresat: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" ; > > > > > > On 06/08/2025 10:30, vermaden wrote: > > … Instructions work as desired - I upgraded dozens of systems this way over a decade and not a single one break. … > > Evidence of breakage has been presented more than once. When > details were offered, in 2021, there was no response. > --------------SmV0NBMRdIp21ouv9bZAdLsG Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 07/08/2025 00:56, vermaden wrote:
If you would understand what you were doing - there would be not 'breakage' ...


I do understand what I'm doing; it's off-topic from pkgbase. 


Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature
Data: 2025-08-07 1:19
Nadawca: "Graham Perrin" <grahamperrin@gmail.com>
Adresat: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" <freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org>;



<https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-boot-environments/>

On 06/08/2025 10:30, vermaden wrote:
… Instructions work as desired - I upgraded dozens of systems this way over a decade and not a single one break. …

Evidence of breakage has been presented more than once. When details were offered, in 2021, there was no response. 


--------------SmV0NBMRdIp21ouv9bZAdLsG-- From nobody Thu Aug 7 01:07:17 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4by8cr4NVxz64Tvj for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 01:26:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4by8cr13lxz41HG for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 01:26:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2025 03:07:17 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Graham Perrin , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: <8690FF2F-B66D-423E-815C-9D64700A7D7D@yahoo.com> <311e4b5b-86ea-44f0-9418-d319b97634f0@gmail.com> <0d0fbf1d-5400-4feb-9d6f-b1955bb84a9a@gmail.com> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754528838; bh=viIvf3cDfAjhp5227VhDDuiz6ySnlVex4JCo27lhqeg=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=JqI5L2rHw3rZZbAzpqZfKxQ1Zv3tUNEhaCG9yn7jChMoXHAmjzChMGu2zEbUaDpbm sanyGYJdU0PAHfrzUxR5un7QhCtNKgOzpHz+ROmFb2sBTwK4q/hsJHXRWFHFxlTlqX ENR2EcdScDznJhcNNPWJtp2/I4TtppG+2q7sxC9I= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4by8cr13lxz41HG X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] > I do understand what I'm doing; it's off-topic from pkgbase. Try harder then - because current level is not enough ... ... and I am not the one that started that off topic. Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-07 2:08 Nadawca: "Graham Perrin" <grahamperrin@gmail.com> Adresat: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org;=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 > On 07/08/2025 00:56, vermaden wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> If you would understand what you were doing - there would be not 'breakage' ... >>=20 >=20 > I do understand what I'm doing; it's off-topic from pkgbase.  >=20 >>=20 >> Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature >> Data: 2025-08-07 1:19 >> Nadawca: "Graham Perrin" <grahamperrin@gmail.com> >> Adresat: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" <freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org>;=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> <https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/upgrade-freebsd-with-zfs-= boot-environments/> >>>=20 >>> On 06/08/2025 10:30, vermaden wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> =E2=80=A6 Instructions work as desired - I upgraded dozens of systems = this way over a decade and not a single one break. =E2=80=A6 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Evidence of breakage has been presented more than once. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 508b5811891fd1feaa425b0020db1b8e; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 03:42:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Deletion of just installed port-packages: a question [Trying to avoid being part of other somewhat-related discussions] Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 20:42:04 -0700 To: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-pkg@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) References: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.33 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.829]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.64.204:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.64.204:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4byCfB0Ktnz4CVn X-Spamd-Bar: --- [Limited to FreeBSD-pkgbse@ and FreeBSD-pkg@ .] I have a type of script where I'd used the likes of, say: chroot /FBSDFSSDroot-mnt/ pkg-static delete -a (no -f) to clear out port-packages that had been installed --before installing new ones with the likes of: chroot /FBSDFSSDroot-mnt/ pkg-static install -f `cat = ~/origins/amd64-pkgs.txt` This predated my potentially having the chroot be based on a pkgbase world installation. Is there a known alternative to the command: chroot /FBSDFSSDroot-mnt/ pkg-static delete -a that would only delete port-packages, even if the chroot's world was based on a pkgbase world installation? If yes, what would the command be like? If no, could something be added to allow such a command to be formed? In the long run, I may not be the only one with such a prior context and resulting general type of question. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Thu Aug 7 05:44:05 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4byGLc6DvJz63nh3; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 05:44:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dtxdf@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4byGLc5Tmzz3CLp; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 05:44:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dtxdf@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754545448; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=we6J0CcRj7SJemfG6GuW0c7HPUu/9LhbU0zJWzy9KIk=; b=fG12w1C8ON7KOyZzyDjQHM79ScsQSx6cC9xWLJqCBDsr4NU7Zf+gtwjdpC9GEz4ZrSzI0Y f/52Zt+JqIQUFts8JvSPS3nb4snJhjsNSyALKhl6k0tSrV/+GwmZMuE6er0Pg1k/ktwMGE 077ZV0ev2ddysdTc+RV4ZZnSfvcYDtL9cq2voY4Jc5g8Rceod2k3R2+gtlHtFrR9GLFj2H 6tobqcftSCWaNFw/483L1AhvYs+nhO8BcGv1C61G2eHVrmJBi5eTyhq9BW5taCjgF62iSx 7WK0+eBuB/K0okefEGCeF1mRhU4K89nAuYtY6TGeHXElb1xflPvt6TvQ2zor2w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754545448; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=we6J0CcRj7SJemfG6GuW0c7HPUu/9LhbU0zJWzy9KIk=; b=S0RCWQX7drBsbfjsnnLbDMbYthN4NFg+LGVpJUIm5AzEGsY/v489pGPTl3qz/9JdLMndAM /PAOhMPMTtIC2fugQq1DDUB4W5zO8TfwSQO/sQbAo2amorQVPC2j9PK8D2ag1RZoRMZVZr N7CFwW0tv9B0jdAcmsIo9w5S3wXDY04Z4KSkQEjYBr0FLHkzkVn6bz3KOAxym7In8RQXuY gqXUR4cuogpaJXKvzz6FqdNYIcUfF+wjyZaq4jbqiBi43z0SHJ+Zkyz8X5izDKdp3rwbXI E5n8Fk0KX+K2DNVJmbqAhMY4piBuRN5BdMoi5ynCczIvTbEyJL/r5O/z9zghrA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754545448; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=QUnmLv0r9dzQE8oswT20GoU7cHje9h1ANoEinpd/6DBOqYTSkmSaQjzSFok/72SB3tIK1z vpdz0ehGKQZIMOa1f22eMtsXA4kfpexww+XvgZknYEAPq/IJ9MDmZwdNOzuMPIg9/7rGCS GsQU8LDgbni9TjItJ1V1eEnLACi7JXUCgYD8IT9wAxxUaH7ZvwcG28OA28b7eXitjCOXVJ cn+2PBjvVromxXbS/XvzuBMGHBwLvYQ6n8feEaNMqPq6wXm1g2gO+ilwG3HLoi5ngvNyEz pqtv5hNExIRgXL7TQmjKUVHbcEjAXdQD7CaA1WVGr3t5emDo7lqyA2M7oYoE7g== Received: from [192.168.0.103] (unknown [201.208.30.180]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: dtxdf) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4byGLc12NMzqTH; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 05:44:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dtxdf@freebsd.org) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8XRymVIcfNm0H6e34XCBQz2w" Message-ID: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 01:44:05 -0400 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Beta Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages: a question [Trying to avoid being part of other somewhat-related discussions] To: Mark Millard , FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-pkg@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jes=C3=BAs_Daniel_Colmenares_Oviedo?= In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8XRymVIcfNm0H6e34XCBQz2w Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps something like this (with a few additions): ``` pkg query %n | grep -vEe '^(FreeBSD-.+)' | xargs pkg remove -n && pkg autoremove -n && pkg clean -n ``` On 8/6/25 23:42, Mark Millard wrote: > Is there a known alternative to the command: > > chroot/FBSDFSSDroot-mnt/ pkg-static delete -a > > that would only delete port-packages, even if the > chroot's world was based on a pkgbase world > installation? > > If yes, what would the command be like? --------------8XRymVIcfNm0H6e34XCBQz2w Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Perhaps something like this (with a few additions):


```
pkg query %n | grep -vEe '^(FreeBSD-.+)' | xargs pkg remove -n && pkg autoremove -n && pkg clean -n

```

On 8/6/25 23:42, Mark Millard wrote:
Is there a known alternative to the command:

chroot /FBSDFSSDroot-mnt/ pkg-static delete -a

that would only delete port-packages, even if the
chroot's world was based on a pkgbase world
installation?

If yes, what would the command be like?
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[89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-458953cfd10sm352314405e9.21.2025.08.07.02.01.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 02:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------HoXZ9k0zx4gPvwiQGXIVN8fT" Message-ID: <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 10:01:07 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.58 / 15.00]; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 07/08/2025 06:44, Jesús Daniel Colmenares Oviedo wrote: > Perhaps something like this (with a few additions): > > > ``` > pkg query %n | grep -vEe '^(FreeBSD-.+)' | xargs pkg remove -n && pkg > autoremove -n && pkg clean -n > > ``` > This is good. Thank you, Mark and Jesús, for progressing this. xargs pkg delete -fqy.txt (attached) ==================================== Quiet, forced deletion -- without question -- of pkg, pkg-provides, and around 830 other non-base packages. The subsequent bootstrap of pkg succeeded. My first use of the bootstrapped pkg failed only because re: , I had omitted to reconfigure /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf for pkg to work without the plugin. xargs dry run.txt (attached) ==================================== All normal, as far as I can tell, with the dry run. 833 non-base packages. No base package will be deleted. xargs pkg delete -y.txt (attached) ==================================== Assuming yes, without also applying force, naturally stops when pkg will not delete itself. Making a command memorable ==================================== An alias is tempting, however from I learnt that a pipe can be problematic. I apologise for my lack of knowledge there; it was fixed after users of a release suffered the effects of my mistake. ---- Belated thanks to Ed Maste and arrowd ( and in particular). --------------HoXZ9k0zx4gPvwiQGXIVN8fT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="xargs pkg delete -fqy.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="xargs pkg delete -fqy.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U2NyaXB0IHN0YXJ0ZWQgb24gVGh1IEF1ZyAgNyAwODo0NTozNyAyMDI1CnJvb3RAcGtnOn4g IyBlY2hvICRTSEVMTAoKL2Jpbi9jc2gKcm9vdEBwa2c6fiAjIHVuYW1lIC1tdktVCgpGcmVl QlNEIDE0LjMtUkVMRUFTRS1wMSByZWxlbmcvMTQuMy1uMjcxNDM0LTJlYTk5YjhlZDE0MiBH RU5FUklDIGFtZDY0IDE0MDMwMDAgMTQwMzAwMApyb290QHBrZzp+ICMgcGtnIHByaW1lLW9y aWdpbnMgfCBzb3J0IC11CgpiYXNlCmNvbXBhdC9saWJyYXJpZXMKZWRpdG9ycy9uYW5vCmVk aXRvcnMvdHVyYm8KZW11bGF0b3JzL3ZpcnR1YWxib3gtb3NlLWFkZGl0aW9ucwpuZXQvZ2l0 dXAKcG9ydHMtbWdtdC9wa2cKcG9ydHMtbWdtdC9wa2ctcHJvdmlkZXMKc3lzdXRpbHMvaHRv cApzeXN1dGlscy9sc2Jsawp4MTEtd20veGZjZTQKeDExL2tkZQp4MTEvc2RkbQp4MTEveG9y 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List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Tomek CEDRO , vermaden Cc: Ceri Davies , "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" References: From: DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=DutchDaemon@FreeBSD.org; keydata= xjMEZa5xHxYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAfWZ69PhvjxSC5/RYQaU5TFyz+SENz3Oi0fkdJIISjGHN RER1dGNoRGFlbW9uIC0gRnJlZUJTRCBGb3J1bXMgQWRtaW5pc3RyYXRvciA8RHV0Y2hEYWVt b25ARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wokEExYIADEWIQSDIpfQllw48uFsWk/r4FMJZEPckQUCZa5xHwIb AwQLCQgHBRUICQoLBRYCAwEAAAoJEOvgUwlkQ9yRf7EBAMinyZF8zVzNuHpeKdGPHVZcNqBj 1H192nmduRSxejFnAP490W4kl7pwtdpMVrX7iJqkWanO2L0kWlig7csNIi5nAs44BGWucR8S CisGAQQBl1UBBQEBB0Ajr12wp47yOqDF5v8c+VC9pklim0qa1FrqxTMaA1kUJAMBCAfCeAQY 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[192.0.220.237]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7e67f752aa5sm950217185a.75.2025.08.07.06.09.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 06:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 09:08:59 -0400 From: Mark Johnston To: Alan Somers Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd-update and pkgbase Message-ID: References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bySD54fsnz3xZM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Wed, Aug 06, 2025 at 04:22:09PM -0600, Alan Somers wrote: > On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 3:17 PM Mark Johnston wrote: > > > The future of freebsd-update post 15.0 isn't totally clear. There have > > been proposals to remove it in 15.0. IMO we can't remove it outright, > > since may be needed in order to upgrade 13.x and 14.x jails on a 15.0 > > host. It is also a shame to lose a simple upgrade utility that is > > well-documented and that many users are familiar with; compare > > "freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE" with the upgrade instructions > > on the pkgbase wiki page. > > > > pkgbase offers a lot of flexibility but I suspect many users don't need > > it; they need a one-shot "upgrade my system, please" utility that will > > automatically create a boot environment, configure pkg repositories as > > needed for major/minor/security upgrades, fetch packages, and handle > > package installation order (i.e., kernel first, followed by a reboot). > > > > I don't really think this functionality belongs in pkg itself. So, > > seeing as freebsd-update already handles some of the above, and users > > are already familiar with it, I propose extending freebsd-update to work > > in a pkgbase world. Users would be free to not use it and instead use > > pkg directly if they so desire, but this would provide a simple > > alternative to those who don't want or need that flexibility. > > > > I'm going to try implementing this, if only to see if there are any > > unexpected issues that come up. Feedback would be appreciated, both on > > the proposal itself and on any technical hurdles you see. Aside from > > the internal changes needed to make freebsd-update subcommands use pkg, > > I see a few tasks and requirements: > > - freebsd-update should be able to bootstrap pkgbase; in practice, I > > think this means that we should import pkgbaseify and make > > freebsd-update able to run it if the user so requests. > > - freebsd-update should possibly live in its own pkgbase package so that > > it can upgrade itself before the rest of the system. > > - freebsd-update should configure a pkgbase repository using a file in > > /etc/pkg, disabled by default so that regular "pkg upgrade" doesn't > > try to touch the base system. I'm not sure yet how repository > > configurations should be managed: should they be dynamically > > generated, or should we provide some bundle of configurations (e.g., > > one for every supported release), or? > > - We need to figure out how to handle freebsd-update.conf options which > > don't make sense in a pkgbase world. > > > > This sounds like a great idea. You might consider switching to > freebsd-rustdate, though. It's far faster and somewhat easier to use. > It's probably more maintainable, too. I'll take a look at it but I don't think we'd want to switch to that and pkgbase both in 15.0? Plus, I think a lot of the existing code in freebsd-update doesn't need to be kept, and I expect using pkgbase should make freebsd-update much faster in any case... From nobody Thu Aug 7 15:02:32 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4byVl74LQZz64NGl; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 15:02:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4byVl229lLz3HCP; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 15:02:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2025 17:02:32 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Daniel Morante , "stable@freebsd.org" , "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <73c44099-baa7-48b2-b486-1ffaf3017820@morante.net> References: <5d439128-fec3-4992-bb83-adcc440814cb@FreeBSD.org> <73c44099-baa7-48b2-b486-1ffaf3017820@morante.net> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754578955; bh=iLzUltVCBZP1zYTI1L/4iqOOBIgYmOscK7KXQONXAP4=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=MdZLGlmfZH3CV6YMcsUK23pXHpXYH2CknqBh7iE6zqRccShXN+Nt/0IOIgzPiUb6L 98C4jZsRdvogL04AVEMW7r+o688BYdKX4DIzzs3WDmnEOwRZoGlY8AZ40YH7gq45ED lXAOtxNeO79LqJ0VBbZh4Jfu5SNalvyRQUtoHgaA= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4byVl229lLz3HCP X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN_FAIL(0.00)[49.67.74.217.asn.rspamd.com:query timed out] > Why should we use the `pkg` tooling for this? > Why not instead have a dedicated set of tooling > for managing the base operating system? That is what I proposed here with pkgbase(8) command: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase/2025-July/000596.html In point (1) of course. Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-07 16:58 Nadawca: "Daniel Morante" <daniel@morante.net> Adresat: stable@freebsd.org; FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org; "freebsd-current"= <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>;=20 >=20 >> I gave this more thought.  Maybe the problem here is the approach?  Why=20 > should we use the `pkg` tooling for this? >=20 > Why not instead have a dedicated set of tooling for managing the base=20 > operating system? We kind of already have that and it works well with=20 > the FreeBSD philosophy.  They are called `bsdinstall`, and=20 > `freebsd-update`.  Can we simply convert/repurpose (and maybe even=20 > merge) and rename those tools to handle managing the operating system in=20 > a package like style.  We just call it "freebsd-setup" or whatever.&= nbsp; The=20 > point being that `pkg` is for ports/packages for third party software=20 > and `freebsd-setup` is for the operating system.  The two should never=20 > cross paths. >=20 > On 8/7/2025 7:09 AM, DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator wrote: >> On 8/7/2025 1:43 AM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: >>> On Thu, Aug 7, 2025 at 12:21=E2=80=AFAM vermaden=20 wrote: >>>> So You still do not understand ... >>>> >>>> The pkg(8) command works fine - its just NOT SUPPOSE to DESTROY most=20 >>>> of the FreeBSD Base System - because FreeBSD is not Linux to allow >>>> shit like that ... >>> +1 =3D) >>> >>> Base and Userland should be clearly separated, as it was, as it is, no >>> matter how it will be organized internally (i.e. modular base) :-) >>> >>> Maybe its worth thinking about some sort of standard minimal fallback >>> environment (rescue?) when base gets broken for any reason (i.e. >>> broken pkgbase, broken modules, fs corruption, broken hardware, >>> accident) to either restore last working configuration or recreate >>> defaults with/from what can be saved? :-) >> >> >> Maybe this would be a good time to reserve the -b / --base flags in=20 >> pkg(8) .. ? >> >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Aug 7 15:57:32 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4byWyj1sJGz64RMM for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 15:57:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic.asd.mail.yahoo.com (sonic304-24.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.205]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4byWyh4qdjz3R8y for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 15:57:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754582266; bh=bS//QN+n7dROHy7LLzWkr7zdj3BpJX+OXT4PdKX/O/s=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=cI/OwA9QuqP5f/fFPOfvExEcoeTvJRolH72Ghdr+AOwWnh8w7UniOLbKw5raAdxHJErkXs18Xpphk6/lehlfmJpZjTE+bYOYeGrnlPy9wtA8ie0ZcPW7NGMoaxNjPV4I08q8iFrJvSicpFNbHgfpLQSKYaoAlXtOHTtDAT3P9RPYO3zctqac10mUOHFidq0Vhe7OlCe1UyyCQyeXj09WIzpXOXD96MD3pKRxL7yAEgThEVUpdxdDG9aMau5+onwQxFFefiMUDygXqLL9g9ZmlLkXlXXNGqkIielBtFkh3ny7D5js0cfCy6maRBBeiW+RvkY/dngvqLZdAdkUnjHspg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1754582266; bh=qpr4J/ffcbG2huOm26hivmYsjykn8120nAd8CcCICYO=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=JpVu0U3v1c8lRbeH6hp//pArz6TTZtjzVh4je6L/JmlwmdMDaGeYx4hDnpGFX2nZgY7c9taF9EUjqQoi/zvXQ44ltK2tkHWZxW8D/mVuDpfPr80HxeZDGi+CbKZXoEZsJ6df9MldhGYp5qf10Mi7LA/T30CLojOeLOS2GdoANXvxqNSXfuQmlKmtK0dvTOuaPHeYvUKKdShmSPYdZJH6DLEVGhDdPL23WwThZto1aTX9ApKq4pxW9QLYGoWn5BduklUh+90+axkM5xxBwf6sePR9PoMgv+ou1VnJx0i942d9yR3d8vrE/CpA52Dzl/C6LDAMBe0FsIiZnxA+EdHwbg== X-YMail-OSG: FzbU9hoVM1mM1KyShYunjBwNXJ6XEV.sxUFF3XQuuof5ZfaK6wXRdDaI.zWrDOf UeDCnxeJ1hopPiCmm6vlZAQAucj1nJFMnVsZ9wq4rJg4Dl3sDmyGT6BLQCaA8MKuG60qGhtUPG37 F88u2EzXP9a0gg2SV1rJRbXnqIirulzuHN.CfLGHRb3gPE9R0yXMIhQzv8Ofte9emL7irVBP1JAp n3xidIflveeD5Wv4eGdd9A.tBDdUG25nI1KHkkL.9KTIWROccz9FfQ1LfCcZ0O492NMUW2AQD5WH .KhEcm8NJ7bXzVTck3nDZ5lQZTrkqjyJ1fhPNax89UEeYOHcqCR52KfmWee1ssZGYeiLQ3N8KttQ _FmkwEN.K_ECTnaYtHzzzqzuj2sjMx3b1.PdyEEEPLDm6YrjeqoIxD1lSaRDCje9yb5GvUhbtYi. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 049e4f3d4002fbddaa1f722d4a8807fa; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 15:57:42 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 08:57:32 -0700 Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> To: Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4byWyh4qdjz3R8y X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] On Aug 7, 2025, at 02:01, Graham Perrin wrote: > On 07/08/2025 06:44, Jes=C3=BAs Daniel Colmenares Oviedo wrote: >=20 >> Perhaps something like this (with a few additions): >>=20 >>=20 >> ``` >> pkg query %n | grep -vEe '^(FreeBSD-.+)' | xargs pkg remove -n && pkg = autoremove -n && pkg clean -n >>=20 >> ``` >>=20 >=20 > This is good. Thank you, Mark and Jes=C3=BAs, for progressing this. >=20 >=20 > xargs pkg delete -fqy.txt (attached) > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Quiet, forced deletion -- without question -- of pkg, pkg-provides, = and around 830 other non-base packages. >=20 > The subsequent bootstrap of pkg succeeded. >=20 > My first use of the bootstrapped pkg failed only because re: = , I had = omitted to reconfigure /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf for pkg to work without = the plugin. >=20 >=20 > xargs dry run.txt (attached) > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > All normal, as far as I can tell, with the dry run. >=20 > 833 non-base packages. No base package will be deleted. Actually the file indicates that /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-*.pkg files would be deleted by the "pkg clean" (if -n had not been provided): QUOTE The following package files will be deleted: = /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dev-lib32-15.snap20250715051601~2b1b4b0= e75.pkg /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-telnet-man-15.snap20241026125659.pkg . . . /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-bsdinstall-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg The cleanup will free 1 GiB END QUOTE I do not know if this would be desired vs. not. > xargs pkg delete -y.txt (attached) > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Assuming yes, without also applying force, naturally stops when pkg = will not delete itself. Well, that means a large number of packages were not deleted: [49/833] Deleting files for PackageKit-1.3.1: 100% [50/833] Deinstalling discount-2.2.7d... [50/833] Deleting files for discount-2.2.7d: 100% pkg: Cannot delete pkg itself without force flag This does not match the documented pkg delete -a behavior (no -f): The following options are supported by pkg delete: -a, --all Deletes all installed packages except for pkg(8) from = the system and cleans the database of information related to removed packages. I'll also note that the "except for pkg(8)" text might mean that enough of FreeBSD-* should be left in place for pkg (and pkg-static) to be fully operational. Either that, or more about the result needs to be documented. > Making a command memorable > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > An alias is tempting, however from = I learnt that a pipe can be = problematic. I apologise for my lack of knowledge there; it was fixed = after users of a release suffered the effects of my mistake. >=20 >=20 > ---- >=20 > Belated thanks to Ed Maste and arrowd = ( = and = in particular). > =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Thu Aug 7 19:40:58 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bycwP6YnHz64fZJ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 19:41:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x32a.google.com (mail-wm1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bycwN4740z3y4G; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 19:41:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=mMRBO2+y; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grahamperrin@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::32a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grahamperrin@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-wm1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-458bf6d69e4so13305945e9.2; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 12:41:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1754595660; x=1755200460; darn=freebsd.org; h=in-reply-to:autocrypt:from:content-language:references:to:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=irCZQtYkt4dwjtZYHqiL5cYGw/ULK4oydEsMDWZTbHM=; b=mMRBO2+yogUZp8KDGEAie092FMAHgFFtCo8ycYeBnvHyMlQGecGN6vX+baj20VmZq9 xGbWPjYeBIAeq9jNLLhSgUzArhsrlvoDojRlVG1jiYh+lzpeLBNv6bDuCR6T3aKaXQjP khy9O4V4TRqZKxUdAUvNzrtgu5U0TUdBDERJRF+TZSwC7wIkMYkUnlvHoATgntzbtq2V WbJU4IBimNX1GJc5sQq77U01XaLmL2qoz+vLzJuGNZVUVLqGlJYlUv2DKVSYsEwVow90 F47JcEptMjvG394wCWvNegIDtV5k3tjIeeWVb3KhbkuPrFY+nZdrXB1Jy0i8IFcC1Uch FxIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754595660; x=1755200460; h=in-reply-to:autocrypt:from:content-language:references:to:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=irCZQtYkt4dwjtZYHqiL5cYGw/ULK4oydEsMDWZTbHM=; b=RcXr4YtPBsM2MiZqv97sZ0cmajO4eGjq+9TjhR+VLj+IhpuMJJclHmZ4PznVBTOM+F 0jvQVXsGGfwHrKYwP8f7VFzEklUATGNMGv0Gei50583QNqY7YqCMqcNTgHodsNXXe35g akbTmDWBiw4XyO9HLsZJwFogHAtR0oejf78d7NEcymLhLjZXzNOyYWWi0d1beMGTMk+s MGPYanM8Pd9w7D4bH8PW0pRtb7HsNKbGqxHcuHSib8bHRAadMCKySKLTacNzJLdZCyQQ 2u7DXK2hAVis5+21yFKj3cdXWwMJjNs6VaZJHWMhA0tJ/k9RzaPKsTRErJcpBO01R+s3 cZaw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX8vVL/Mhp9UNuAMXeQpbmrWvNUAuoVZEQCFKGuJvNZH7UbbwDxbxI+sSZLKXYEMgMCNrNxe04k2svWvw==@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzb60j6Xbh6qYsTsucs7YNU5Z31VuLc1vXYOE8xfEOIhFJT9iUg 5vKYqXM4FFgTJLE3GQITYIhaFPLgba2CUtnsbVkH7x7theoZlneG8NHh6wMang== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncua8hPtwzDFSuimFh8Nf671Xqrkq6zLOLWFdWdYgPNvGX0kjMo3UefKXihOr1H 7TO2kwl1YRiBZN+yBc1MRg1oQz4CmmvzCYesl/NLnXInluQcsxa8WJo5IujGSPplqkR5mFthg41 DsaO8FZX/BcogFLU+oAnWLMkRdeips/5bupk/bXH/NSqDgWaLkFEChe/Mq4vaSSS6UuZhjrHt07 R8T14l8g5AC4tuPSKTT1mPNKxYtp6+7EAufywTzfFbVAQJhiBdDYl+0NoZHGfWdR5L3m39D/Wwq zV4e6SmT7kdfhoICP467nlNCc5z0rAk0nKazr+rbjlTt0d25NSxEywTk7OVEhE2kYzYa41d0+Jo hRa+573I37Tf0/6xGybDrQE3aG17DYyWZMU3SBCOpJDcGo12K9pyRwH7Sa6E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEse8y/pi0nt9C/erSKzaXZPwU085+CoNOZIjKT+FDcMZy3ddsJynI0eDt/X/54A6aZhPQT2g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1c0f:b0:456:19be:5cc with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-459f4f51f9fmr1929395e9.14.1754595659663; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 12:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (host-89-241-205-78.as13285.net. [89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-459e586ad64sm103039505e9.20.2025.08.07.12.40.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 12:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------MU7Ix9dZtMkzPddGCFj2s3Ar" Message-ID: <47d9d9ab-84f8-41dd-96ca-cf39d4c8d5a2@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 20:40:58 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.92 / 15.00]; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 07/08/2025 16:57, Mark Millard wrote: > … does not match the documented pkg delete -a > behavior (no -f): … (From Reddit) for --force in the Options section of pkg-delete(8), something like: > … In combination with the -a or --all flag, deletes base packages (if > present) that form FreeBSD, and pkg(8) itself. > > Do not forcibly delete the operating system. --------------MU7Ix9dZtMkzPddGCFj2s3Ar Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 07/08/2025 16:57, Mark Millard wrote:
… does not match the documented pkg delete -a
behavior (no -f): …


(From Reddit) for --force in the Options section of pkg-delete(8), something like:

… In combination with the -a or --all flag, deletes base packages (if present) that form FreeBSD, and pkg(8) itself.

Do not forcibly delete the operating system.

<https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=pkg-delete&sektion=8&manpath=freebsd-ports#OPTIONS>

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[89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-af91a21c014sm1362492466b.98.2025.08.07.12.59.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 12:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <69af69f2-006f-4815-ac4d-d5077a2f9fde@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 20:59:26 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success From: Graham Perrin To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-GB Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.90 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.904]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[grahamperrin]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62a:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bydKb4Jrrz41Ck X-Spamd-Bar: --- Terminology Excluding base does not necessarily mean that affected packages will be solely from FreeBSD-ports. Affected packages are, for example, likely to include those from the FreeBSD-kmods repo. For the scripted session below, I highlighted drm-61-kmod. ---- Script started on Thu Aug  7 18:29:22 2025 root@pkg:~ # pkg install -qUy drm-kmod ===== Message from drm-61-kmod-6.1.128.1403000_5: -- The drm-61-kmod port can be enabled for amdgpu (for AMD GPUs starting with the HD7000 series / Tahiti) or i915kms (for Intel APUs starting with HD3000 / Sandy Bridge) through kld_list in /etc/rc.conf. radeonkms for older AMD GPUs can be loaded and there are some positive reports if EFI boot is NOT enabled. For amdgpu: kld_list="amdgpu" For Intel: kld_list="i915kms" For radeonkms: kld_list="radeonkms" Please ensure that all users requiring graphics are members of the "video" group. Please note that this package was built for FreeBSD 14.3. If this is not your current running version, please rebuild it from ports to prevent panics when loading the module. root@pkg:~ # pkg query '%At %Av' drm-61-kmod FreeBSD_version 1403000 repo_type binary repository FreeBSD-kmods root@pkg:~ # pkg query %n | grep -vEe '^(FreeBSD-.+)' | xargs pkg delete -fqy You may need to manually remove /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf if it is no longer needed. root@pkg:~ # pkg bootstrap -y Bootstrapping pkg from pkg+https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/base_release_3, please wait... pkg: Attempted to fetch pkg+https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/base_release_3/Latest/pkg.pkg pkg: Attempted to fetch pkg+https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/base_release_3/Latest/pkg.txz pkg: Error: Not Found A pre-built version of pkg could not be found for your system. Bootstrapping pkg from pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:14:amd64/latest, please wait... Verifying signature with trusted certificate pkg.freebsd.org.2013102301... done Installing pkg-2.2.1... Extracting pkg-2.2.1:   0% … Extracting pkg-2.2.1: 100% root@pkg:~ # pkg install -qUy pkg-provides pkg: Loading of plugin 'provides' failed: Cannot open "/usr/local/lib/pkg//provides.so" pkg: Plugins cannot be loaded root@pkg:~ # pkg-static install -qUy pkg-provides ===== Message from pkg-provides-0.7.4: -- In order to use the pkg-provides plugin you need to enable plugins in pkg. To do this, uncomment the following lines in /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf file and add pkg-provides to the supported plugin list: PKG_PLUGINS_DIR = "/usr/local/lib/pkg/"; PKG_ENABLE_PLUGINS = true; PLUGINS [ provides ]; After that run `pkg plugins' to see the plugins handled by pkg. root@pkg:~ # pkg iinfo drm-61-kmod pkg: No package(s) matching drm-61-kmod root@pkg:~ # freebsd-version -kru ; uname -mvKU 14.3-RELEASE-p1 14.3-RELEASE-p1 14.3-RELEASE-p1 FreeBSD 14.3-RELEASE-p1 releng/14.3-n271434-2ea99b8ed142 GENERIC amd64 1403000 1403000 root@pkg:~ # pkg repos -el | sort -f FreeBSD-base FreeBSD-kmods FreeBSD-ports root@pkg:~ # echo $SHELL /bin/csh root@pkg:~ # exit exit Script done on Thu Aug  7 18:36:58 2025 From nobody Thu Aug 7 20:00:16 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bydLr6yY8z64gTP for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 20:00:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.147]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bydLr3y26z41F6 for ; 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 332ddc70f6dbb3c7214a3d4e2609bcf2; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 20:00:27 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <47d9d9ab-84f8-41dd-96ca-cf39d4c8d5a2@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 13:00:16 -0700 Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> <47d9d9ab-84f8-41dd-96ca-cf39d4c8d5a2@gmail.com> To: Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bydLr3y26z41F6 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US] On Aug 7, 2025, at 12:40, Graham Perrin wrote: > On 07/08/2025 16:57, Mark Millard wrote: >> =E2=80=A6 does not match the documented pkg delete -a >> behavior (no -f): =E2=80=A6 >=20 > (=46rom Reddit) for --force in the Options section of pkg-delete(8), = something like: I specified a context where -f (force) was NOT in use for my whole note. Why are your replying about a type of context that I did not reference? >> =E2=80=A6 In combination with the -a or --all flag, deletes base = packages (if present) that form FreeBSD, and pkg(8) itself. Not relevant to my list submittal: -a without force being used is = relevant instead. You may need to explain more about whatever your point was. 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[89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4595cfea56fsm128111615e9.1.2025.08.07.13.14.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 13:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1gN00mrJioo9VARlabEXfkAL" Message-ID: <88b3ff09-a4bf-44dd-b1e9-be6b676e6ab8@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 21:14:02 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> <47d9d9ab-84f8-41dd-96ca-cf39d4c8d5a2@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 07/08/2025 21:00, Mark Millard wrote: > … You may need to explain more about whatever your point was. I'm confused. Sorry. I am (at the same time) taking a broader look at the pkg-delete(8) page. --------------1gN00mrJioo9VARlabEXfkAL Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 07/08/2025 21:00, Mark Millard wrote:
… You may need to explain more about whatever your point was. I'm confused.


Sorry. I am (at the same time) taking a broader look at the pkg-delete(8) page. 

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[89.241.205.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3b79c453328sm29393422f8f.46.2025.08.07.13.22.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 13:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------IlffAKbk4orNNyAz6iwcjZ9d" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 21:22:01 +0100 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-GB From: Graham Perrin Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.89 / 15.00]; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 07/08/2025 16:57, Mark Millard wrote: > … > Actually the file indicates that /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-*.pkg > files would be deleted by the "pkg clean" (if -n had not been > provided): > > QUOTE > The following package files will be deleted: > /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dev-lib32-15.snap20250715051601~2b1b4b0e75.pkg > /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-telnet-man-15.snap20241026125659.pkg > . . . > /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-bsdinstall-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg > /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg > The cleanup will free 1 GiB > END QUOTE > > I do not know if this would be desired vs. not. > > … Personally, I would rarely clean the cache. I think, we're partly experimenting with what's possible; not necessarily what's recommended (or desirable). I might demonstrate the effect of -fqy but that's certainly not a recommendation; and so on. HTH --------------IlffAKbk4orNNyAz6iwcjZ9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 07/08/2025 16:57, Mark Millard wrote:
… 
Actually the file indicates that /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-*.pkg
files would be deleted by the "pkg clean" (if -n had not been
provided):

QUOTE
The following package files will be deleted:
        /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dev-lib32-15.snap20250715051601~2b1b4b0e75.pkg
        /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-telnet-man-15.snap20241026125659.pkg
. . .
        /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-bsdinstall-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg
        /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg
The cleanup will free 1 GiB
END QUOTE

I do not know if this would be desired vs. not.

…


Personally, I would rarely clean the cache. 

I think, we're partly experimenting with what's possible; not necessarily what's recommended (or desirable). 

I might demonstrate the effect of -fqy but that's certainly not a recommendation; and so on. 

HTH

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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6c0d2c1cc5aafa29439df2db0391074b; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:41:22 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <1707775018.328368.1754600078502@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 14:41:11 -0700 Cc: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> <1707775018.328368.1754600078502@mail.yahoo.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Yves_Gu=C3=A9rin?= , Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bygbF3Z3nz3C9G X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] On Aug 7, 2025, at 13:54, Yves Gu=C3=A9rin wrote: > Dear >=20 > > Personally, I would rarely clean the cache >=20 > I did everytime I need space in /var so not desirable for my point of = view. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Yves Guerin It might be that what was listed was only ones "that have been superseded by newer versions, and any packages that are no longer provided". (=46rom "man pkg-clean" in my environment.) > Le jeudi 7 ao=C3=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 16:23:03 UTC=E2=88=924, Graham Perrin = a =C3=A9crit :=20 >=20 >=20 > On 07/08/2025 16:57, Mark Millard wrote: >> =E2=80=A6 Actually the file indicates that = /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-*.pkg >> files would be deleted by the "pkg clean" (if -n had not been >> provided): >>=20 >> QUOTE >> The following package files will be deleted: >> = /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dev-lib32-15.snap20250715051601~2b1b4b0= e75.pkg >> /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-telnet-man-15.snap20241026125659.pkg >> . . . >> /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-bsdinstall-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg >> /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg >> The cleanup will free 1 GiB >> END QUOTE >>=20 >> I do not know if this would be desired vs. not. >>=20 >> =E2=80=A6 >=20 > Personally, I would rarely clean the cache.=20 > I think, we're partly experimenting with what's possible; not = necessarily what's recommended (or desirable).=20 > I might demonstrate the effect of -fqy but that's certainly not a = recommendation; and so on.=20 > HTH =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Thu Aug 7 21:46:45 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bygjh2xDbz63Y8M for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:47:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic315-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic315-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bygjf42XLz3CVX for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b="Nus/xPVN"; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.65.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com; 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 462cf2cf88cb3cf3aee8c0e6fd0a64ef; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:46:56 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages (excluding base): success From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 14:46:45 -0700 Cc: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> <2ca670e7-b6e9-4d28-b3b8-029758db7735@gmail.com> <1707775018.328368.1754600078502@mail.yahoo.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Yves_Gu=C3=A9rin?= , Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.48 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.979]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.ca,gmail.com]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.31:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.31:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bygjf42XLz3CVX X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Aug 7, 2025, at 14:41, Mark Millard wrote: > On Aug 7, 2025, at 13:54, Yves Gu=C3=A9rin = wrote: >=20 >> Dear >>=20 >>> Personally, I would rarely clean the cache >>=20 >> I did everytime I need space in /var so not desirable for my point of = view. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Yves Guerin >=20 > It might be that what was listed was only ones "that have > been superseded by newer versions, and any packages that > are no longer provided". (=46rom "man pkg-clean" in my > environment.) Although, thnking about it, main ( and stable/* ) can have superseded versions of some or all pkg's twice or so a day. Removal at that rate, if not updating at that rate, might not be the best of ideas. So not cleaning automatically when not updating the FreeBSD-* may be what is appropriate. >> Le jeudi 7 ao=C3=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 16:23:03 UTC=E2=88=924, Graham = Perrin a =C3=A9crit :=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 07/08/2025 16:57, Mark Millard wrote: >>> =E2=80=A6 Actually the file indicates that = /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-*.pkg >>> files would be deleted by the "pkg clean" (if -n had not been >>> provided): >>>=20 >>> QUOTE >>> The following package files will be deleted: >>> = /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dev-lib32-15.snap20250715051601~2b1b4b0= e75.pkg >>> /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-telnet-man-15.snap20241026125659.pkg >>> . . . >>> /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-bsdinstall-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg >>> /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-libexecinfo-dbg-15.snap20250720000631.pkg >>> The cleanup will free 1 GiB >>> END QUOTE >>>=20 >>> I do not know if this would be desired vs. not. >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=A6 >>=20 >> Personally, I would rarely clean the cache.=20 >> I think, we're partly experimenting with what's possible; not = necessarily what's recommended (or desirable).=20 >> I might demonstrate the effect of -fqy but that's certainly not a = recommendation; and so on.=20 >> HTH =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Fri Aug 8 01:20:31 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bymbh17mkz63pRm; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 01:27:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bymbf2RYjz44qP; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 01:27:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b=ReNWSDBR; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 03:20:31 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754616034; bh=YpDS4FlFc7njYt8gxttIoj0/6lF/JtLAk8cs/8gMxAw=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ReNWSDBRiypYNPpM6NEXF2CFjQ5xw/69v6w3M0t+yZ8GKXu/GFPxZgbEhYDva4q9X +OuCLoLOImUoDfSi9ZDAp3n9Vr7waLz+WEMp5jy+3I3Ss69FCY/qqv78TdiaO6YIBN U/xktmOHyr3btCkZIKq4kI+EjWmVfRd/wN6toQLs= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.71 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.891]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[217.74.67.49:from]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bymbf2RYjz44qP X-Spamd-Bar: -- OK, Colin Percival just announced 15.0-PRERELEASE - yet the PKGBASE concept= - besides 'kinda working' - does not holds to the POLA principle at all - = and if anyone will chose to use PKGBASE instead of 'classic' install the 'p= kg delete -af' will not only delete all the third party packages but will a= lso WIPE almost ENTIRE BASE SYSTEM of FreeBSD ... this is not unacceptable = to say the least. My 'vote' here does not changed. Lets keep pkg(8) for third party packages with: - /etc/pkg - /usr/local/etc/pkg - /var/db/pkg Lets have pkgbase(8) for FreeBSD Base System PKGBASE with: - /etc/pkgbase - /usr/local/etc/pkgbase - /var/db/pkgbase Its literally the same 'separation' as the Base System for binaries: - /bin - /usr/bin - /sbin - /usr/sbin And /usr/local PREFIX for third party packages as: - /usr/local/bin - /usr/local/sbin Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-07 2:10 Nadawca: "Sulev-Madis Silber" <freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.p= ri.ee> Adresat: freebsd-current@freebsd.org;=20 >=20 >> what linux distros do here? extra options to avoid deleting the basic things like kernel and minimal userland utils? if you happen to make way too broad package deletion. i don't think linux sysadmins want it either. even if you consider linux moving faster and with less seatbelts ("allow shit like that" (c) vermaden). it's not pkg fault it does wipe system clean if you asked it. also, des@ reminded me that pkg replaced older tracking system 12 years ago. yet, i see pkg production versions being released just recently with a bug that user immediately notices. it was fixed because oops humans make mistakes. but it would be a horror if pkg does those things when it manages the entire system. granted, you can always boot at least external media when any "nuclear" pkg update comes out. this one wasn't but... and one could say that pkgbase is extensively discussed everywhere. but we still have discussions like this here. even fights. what if you miss all those? i never knew 32bit is on the way out until i happened to randomly read that warning from kernel boot log. there are number of those things in fbsd. happened earlier, happened lately. maybe it's inevitable. were you scared to install new major version like 5 or 13 right away because who knows what will happen? luckily there are 2, sometimes 3 majors to choose from should some of them include rushed in late changes that turned out to be buggy. it feels like it got worse lately. i mean more changes, more breaks. i don't know why this isn't confined to current or stable. those are annoying type of changes. hopefully pkgbase will not be switched on before it's done. but pkg for ports still has issues and it's now default package manager here. feels like too much hassle. there are many changes, i mean. good, but extra fuzz. drm for gpus, wifi driver changes, wifi adapter firmware loading changes. all with somebody complaining that (s)he didn't know there was breaking change. i don't have had reason to run -af and not checking either but if you had habit of doing that, it would be similar to rm ~ catching the / along too. unsure what the fix is. (userland) utils and kernel printing it out to console? over longer period of time? i mean i could understand that change was discussed "everywhere", meetings, mailing lists. it would still be missed. if i make something, which i only tried once, and publish it, i would never expect them to be aware of changes i make. because release notes, changelogs, those don't get attention. and you can still miss stuff. i once told that correct procedure is to check everything throughly and then upgrade, but i have passed this myself often. and have gotten "fallouts" too. in fbsd the only thing i would need to stand back, squint and duck is when booting new current. when pkgbase gets out in installer, i expect it to still have issues and i would rather stand back and watch this "nuke" going off. because it does make radical changes. one of most wtf is that now one needs to deal /etc in new ways. and if those differ from mergemaster or etcupdate, it would make somebody mad. perhaps even worse than i could. in my mind, changes are good. if they are reasonable. and known. probably knowing is biggest issue. what if one misses all those 10 different places? i never checked, does freebsd-update tell that pkgbase is coming? does buildworld, maybe installworld tell that? that i actually used and i don't see it. because those are like places where you see it. i can't recall if ports warned of pkgng coming soon? i also prefer if those messages would include plans and not final decisions to make a change. i haven't tries pkgbase myself, maybe i will, maybe i don't. unsure what fix is. maybe start putting things right into where everyone sees it. unsure. and if i were you, whoever leads pkgbase initiative in "high castle" (it does feel like this!), i would not let users delete base with -af. it's rather unusual anyway and i don't think not deleting would get people as mad as deleting stuff. i can't recall what was it, was it repo manager on linux distro or something else but something wanted you to write whole sentence, observing caps and so on. then it executed that irreversible operation. in my systems, i've been configured things to ask date & tim= es when i really wanted to not do anything stupid. that would get somebody's brain working and maybe they interrupt their autopilot mode if they didn't actually want it. trust me, deleting freebsd-kernel, removing freebsd-bin, pkg-bootstrap... isn't what you want to see, then it's too late. and yes, add echos to installworld end and freebsd-update if it's not there already because that's what people see >=20 >=20 >=20 > On August 7, 2025 1:21:32 AM GMT+03:00, vermaden=20 wrote: >>So You still do not understand ... >> >>The pkg(8) command works fine - its just NOT SUPPOSE to DESTROY most of the FreeBSD Base System - because FreeBSD is not Linux to allow shit like that ... >> >> >> >> >>Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature >>Data: 2025-08-07 0:13 >>Nadawca: "Ceri Davies" <ceri@submonkey.net> >>Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 >>DW: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org;=20 >> >> >> >>>> On 6 Aug 2025, at 22:54, vermaden wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> =EF=BB=BF >>>>>=20 >>>>> No, it has the same behaviour. >>>>=20 >>>> English is not my primary language so I will try to explain in more >>simple words as you probably did not understood. >>>>=20 >>>> NOPE. >>>>=20 >>>> It DOES NOT has the same behavior. >>>=20 >>> In each case it forcibly deletes all the packages from your system, >>like you asked. >>>=20 >>> I understood you fine, I just disagree that this is a shocking result >>when you have specified the =E2=80=9Call=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cforce=E2= =80=9D flags. In fact it is >>exactly what that command is documented to do and therefore is very far >>from a violation of the principle of least astonishment. >>>=20 >>> Ceri >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >> >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Aug 8 01:28:50 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bymdg2pjZz63pXV; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 01:28:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from void@f-m.fm) Received: from fout-a8-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a8-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.151]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bymdf1Gltz47D3; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 01:28:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from void@f-m.fm) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=f-m.fm header.s=fm3 header.b=h76rnai4; 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Thu, 7 Aug 2025 21:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 02:28:50 +0100 From: void To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.10 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.50)[-0.503]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[f-m.fm,none]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[f-m.fm:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.151:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[f-m.fm]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[f-m.fm]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[f-m.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:AU]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bymdf1Gltz47D3 X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Thu, Aug 07, 2025 at 01:43:28AM +0200, Tomek CEDRO wrote: >+1 =) > >Base and Userland should be clearly separated, as it was, as it is, no >matter how it will be organized internally (i.e. modular base) :-) +1 here also. Why not avoid breaking POLA by having a differently-named binary for pkgbase management? Different switches, too. -- From nobody Fri Aug 8 02:14:12 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bynf900cYz63v2G; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 02:14:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bynf81Wb9z4GYK; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 02:14:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b=rQz59lW7; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 04:14:12 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754619255; bh=3PZAjWJG5fOBfTo7E0Z23Bh6Ue0nQ/jR3dx6AmtfUAk=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=rQz59lW7DxOEAogz/jcSX2wV+CSHy2DpCabQcflnIBAApUFtJ2E60OMZeFsHPLNSK NgRUespiBgDg5XT2mExXHQAKjFGKAXDW849zT1aT9PjtWdNhvJfYG/B0bcKO1W50rD 6DQwmlr220Dg23uepeOsIlSJI5FgjGpb1TZsH7x8= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.60 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22:c]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[217.74.67.69:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bynf81Wb9z4GYK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- One small 'patch' ... - this is not unacceptable to say the least. + this is unacceptable to say the least. Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-08 3:37 Nadawca: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl> Adresat: "Sulev-Madis Silber" <freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.p= ri.ee>; "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>; fre= ebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org; freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org;=20 >=20 >> OK, Colin Percival just announced 15.0-PRERELEASE - yet the PKGBASE concept - besides 'kinda working' - does not holds to the POLA principle at all - and if anyone will chose to use PKGBASE instead of 'classic' install the 'pkg delete -af' will not only delete all the third party packages but will also WIPE almost ENTIRE BASE SYSTEM of FreeBSD ... this is not unacceptable to say the least. >=20 > My 'vote' here does not changed. >=20 > Lets keep pkg(8) for third party packages with: > - /etc/pkg > - /usr/local/etc/pkg > - /var/db/pkg >=20 > Lets have pkgbase(8) for FreeBSD Base System PKGBASE with: > - /etc/pkgbase > - /usr/local/etc/pkgbase > - /var/db/pkgbase >=20 > Its literally the same 'separation' as the Base System for binaries: > - /bin > - /usr/bin > - /sbin > - /usr/sbin >=20 > And /usr/local PREFIX for third party packages as: > - /usr/local/bin > - /usr/local/sbin >=20 > Regards, > vermaden >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature > Data: 2025-08-07 2:10 > Nadawca: "Sulev-Madis Silber" <freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee> > Adresat: freebsd-current@freebsd.org;=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> what linux distros do here? extra options to avoid > deleting the basic things like kernel and minimal userland utils? if you > happen to make way too broad package deletion. i don't think linux > sysadmins want it either. even if you consider linux moving faster and with > less seatbelts ("allow shit like that" (c) vermaden). it's not pkg fault it > does wipe system clean if you asked it. also, des@ reminded me that pkg > replaced older tracking system 12 years ago. yet, i see pkg production > versions being released just recently with a bug that user immediately > notices. it was fixed because oops humans make mistakes. but it would be a > horror if pkg does those things when it manages the entire system. granted, > you can always boot at least external media when any "nuclear" pkg update > comes out. this one wasn't but... and one could say that pkgbase is > extensively discussed everywhere. but we still have discussions like this > here. even fights. what if you miss all those? i never knew 32bit is on the > way out until i happened to randomly read that warning from kernel boot > log. there are number of those things in fbsd. happened earlier, happened > lately. maybe it's inevitable. were you scared to install new major version > like 5 or 13 right away because who knows what will happen? luckily there > are 2, sometimes 3 majors to choose from should some of them include rushed > in late changes that turned out to be buggy. it feels like it got worse > lately. i mean more changes, more breaks. i don't know why this isn't > confined to current or stable. those are annoying type of changes. > hopefully pkgbase will not be switched on before it's done. but pkg for > ports still has issues and it's now default package manager here. feels > like too much hassle. there are many changes, i mean. good, but extra fuzz. > drm for gpus, wifi driver changes, wifi adapter firmware loading changes. > all with somebody complaining that (s)he didn't know there was breaking > change. i don't have had reason to run -af and not checking either but if > you had habit of doing that, it would be similar to rm ~ catching the / > along too. unsure what the fix is. (userland) utils and kernel printing it > out to console? over longer period of time? i mean i could understand that > change was discussed "everywhere", meetings, mailing lists. it would still > be missed. if i make something, which i only tried once, and publish it, i > would never expect them to be aware of changes i make. because release > notes, changelogs, those don't get attention. and you can still miss stuff. > i once told that correct procedure is to check everything throughly and > then upgrade, but i have passed this myself often. and have gotten > "fallouts" too. in fbsd the only thing i would need to stand back, squint > and duck is when booting new current. when pkgbase gets out in installer, > i expect it to still have issues and i would rather stand back and watch > this "nuke" going off. because it does make radical changes. one of most > wtf is that now one needs to deal /etc in new ways. and if those differ > from mergemaster or etcupdate, it would make somebody mad. perhaps even > worse than i could. in my mind, changes are good. if they are reasonable. > and known. probably knowing is biggest issue. what if one misses all those > 10 different places? i never checked, does freebsd-update tell that pkgbase > is coming? does buildworld, maybe installworld tell that? that i actually > used and i don't see it. because those are like places where you see it. i > can't recall if ports warned of pkgng coming soon? i also prefer if those > messages would include plans and not final decisions to make a change. i > haven't tries pkgbase myself, maybe i will, maybe i don't. unsure what fix > is. maybe start putting things right into where everyone sees it. unsure. > and if i were you, whoever leads pkgbase initiative in "high castle" (it > does feel like this!), i would not let users delete base with -af. it's > rather unusual anyway and i don't think not deleting would get people as > mad as deleting stuff. i can't recall what was it, was it repo manager on > linux distro or something else but something wanted you to write whole > sentence, observing caps and so on. then it executed that irreversible > operation. in my systems, i've been configured things to ask date & times > when i really wanted to not do anything stupid. that would get somebody's > brain working and maybe they interrupt their autopilot mode if they didn't > actually want it. trust me, deleting freebsd-kernel, removing freebsd-bin, > pkg-bootstrap... isn't what you want to see, then it's too late. and yes, > add echos to installworld end and freebsd-update if it's not there already > because that's what people see >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On August 7, 2025 1:21:32 AM GMT+03:00, vermaden=20 > wrote: >>>So You still do not understand ... >>> >>>The pkg(8) command works fine - its just NOT SUPPOSE to DESTROY most > of the FreeBSD Base System - because FreeBSD is not Linux to allow shit > like that ... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature >>>Data: 2025-08-07 0:13 >>>Nadawca: "Ceri Davies" <ceri@submonkey.net> >>>Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 >>>DW: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; > freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org;=20 >>> >>> >>> >>>>> On 6 Aug 2025, at 22:54, vermaden wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> =EF=BB=BF >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> No, it has the same behaviour. >>>>>=20 >>>>> English is not my primary language so I will try to explain in > more >>>simple words as you probably did not understood. >>>>>=20 >>>>> NOPE. >>>>>=20 >>>>> It DOES NOT has the same behavior. >>>>=20 >>>> In each case it forcibly deletes all the packages from your system, >>>like you asked. >>>>=20 >>>> I understood you fine, I just disagree that this is a shocking > result >>>when you have specified the =E2=80=9Call=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cforce=E2= =80=9D flags. In fact > it is >>>exactly what that command is documented to do and therefore is very > far >>>from a violation of the principle of least astonishment. >>>>=20 >>>> Ceri >>>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>> >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Aug 8 02:17:23 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bynjd4L9Yz63vhB; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 02:17:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bynjd24TRz4JTY; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 02:17:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Fri, 08 Aug 2025 02:17:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2025 19:17:23 -0700 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Colin Percival Autocrypt: addr=cperciva@freebsd.org; keydata= xsFNBGWMSrYBEACdWRqDn3B3SKO7IG0/fGHYtfs26f3Q5QeAcasy1fQLniwGQWn5rlILhbCD K/jdNoDm5Zxq20eqyffoDNObCjnHgg4tGANdi+RmDy+7CDpE789H8dss9y7Pt5DlGGAXQQnt hxush3EYS/Ctprd9UUL/lzOOLOU1aNtzB84tNrJBtcJmL7OYHfyTSNFxvedqJrrasejIQOLI t/DQ89BPzz+vsKHz7FJPXh3fsVkzLA00DJYcfkgxyABfJNA7U6yMwd4DVSdx/SsvfIDMVXnu UXCXswo106WPZbYGlZPpq0wW6iibtTerJix+8AeuwXvl9O1p8yESK4ErkIxCnmghTSz+pdzj z/6xBRkdDM9VdZ0r+CzsaNXMpDOzFuKyjaiYBdgCLljbDnXIHFcqXenrZ7Xwkm09g/M4uVSh pIUG2RYa6tsHSQoGCp3f2RZv1znfViKQFbbL83QjtPA20AhseZSYbHp1FPhXyy9J0wkGL16L e99g6gdGeIRE82BZjBjKGDkoyDPq+oDRSFl8NtzmIKy+cfz00nViqcTF4bREXEawFGhlpO0X O9q8mijI9iFB6zaPBiSdJGBL5ML5qLTNCl8Zlf4m1TBvmRTqF/lzMHVXHidDoUhpSh/y3AFZ 1KrYc27ztJQywDJPJPWPbtY8YhFLFs377gfP8WldsZjzp8nvoQARAQABzSVDb2xpbiBQZXJj aXZhbCA8Y3BlcmNpdmFARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wsGRBBMBCAA7FiEEglY7hNBiDtwN+4ZBOJfy 4i5lrT8FAmWMSrYCGwMICwkNCAwHCwMFFQoJCAsFFgMCAQACHgUCF4AACgkQOJfy4i5lrT++ ig/9GZKdN2fHSyrANKZX38ivd7IX2wAYouqH9DrQM94W8IciaDLmarN4Pl9mY+aucMwQUSyp uNtKOJwKqhVVaalF9Zw0sRMH4CJuvT7vKCtZ3q1Okb7soRvFte4d+vXhvPxCvBFDA5JzU7Lg DR5eqqcvF1dN1OuCq16pl0zCOSH/Jr5ToE3LM3Av1KBGcZD7ZSzHRWsFjV5AOUJKySuA3GwJ e/jASQcQ0YfCnru8ntLmYg/2SKvZFlfthZiCBnAppMt4n4BUAw3TDvf10HIDtdneejawcbLS gofLCvGqumwbZYAMKWrFzT4+7KQvr0pOw8QD7EbxnB4f9hQ7UiVF8qWsyKU3iv6b5JLhbS59 ooKRccyOvdMLcVJ0ZdpqoxrNv061ZUqLL5RiWjBlc1qjBnDxeg5oyM0rT8WLftdgvyH6RQt0 KWngumBAT5AT2DUYL8Uz1490cqfO9K4yEGZAJB9XRVX1g2IWTOjae+0g9ZII+h91UngFz+Rz aKDeseKBbCGDOFXx1TqKiHl2g255ZnUxKYTlucFtguv4gDGBgEk4G9JaEWBw1IWblcKhxH7L 2vWsUhvwghjIxHdO/RkeIeHvSp4YZxCJ7a3TaJLYAlwYopfTKVzNhcDY5h5syEuoHjyJCxXK SyoJYAVu8Yl2KUhvOtOmL1VZ6xyHnpdMRWKJZ5jOwU0EZYxKtgEQANYfgbtUMVnhjxDHhWLp g5kLHK3YW0TfJKzpXqDB7NiqxHofn4OcbZnVC3MKggcbs9o1/UtsjnlsG8550PfiYkDXvPiO RJwgbGs6MGIDK797C6cnBLQ8xwBa9SL4cl5iQFnhWmt6vwnJ+an/cm5JpYves3wL7jV09qU9 57hkHXEUcl38r4FssZzVcLKPUVTa3Un+QGRTGDGe/f4ctjMaqv0ZCM+l2ixPhf/vqESrfSLv V/+T3dmtUfXjazO3SABvsHwxgGuTTYOlKoPCaebr+BRdqm0xeIShoIlhvTI8y4clchqx/Uxg UG5X2kvU13k3DS3Q8uLE4Et9x1CcZT6WGgBZSR6R0WfD0SDnzufNnRWJ0dEPA2MtJHE7+85R Vi9j/IgZV+y5Ur+bnPkjDG1s2SVciX5v9HQ0oilcBhvx0j5lGE9hhurD9F+fCvkr4KdbCknE 6Y8ce8pCNBUoB/DqibJivOzTk9K9MGB5x0De5TerIrFiaw3/mQC9nGeO9dtE7wvDJetWeoTq 4BEaCzpufNqbkpOaTQILr4V6Gp7M6v97g83TVAwZntz/q8ptwuKQPZ2JaSFLZn7oWUpYXA5s +SIODFHLn6iMoYpBQskHQjnj4lEPJadl4qj+ZKA89iDAKsniyoFXsbJe2CPbMS1yzBxKZq6K D/jpt7BOnuHr/JrXABEBAAHCwXYEGAEIACAWIQSCVjuE0GIO3A37hkE4l/LiLmWtPwUCZYxK tgIbDAAKCRA4l/LiLmWtP3jmEACQrh9gWe8F1Tkw3m6VoHKwLc5he4tX3WpQa//soPO6iGG3 S3WPruQ46NrAaAojoOcKI9UONDO5rxG0ZTX53S+lu2EO47jbcLwOCjaEpjKpDRt9ZXBQE8Xl mtBE9Bp3W9gpjB1nE3KNM1mJYgsK0QdRpwwfh4pVgGpOj8j23I6MCK+v99zEBnpgCn2GX8W/ kctRXHqWwndHysOJtRP/zrl7dDaABF1f9efUl0LL3TD3GJ9VDz+DNOin/uK2a1hiJo8QzTRk PpfUQ2ebzDsrd1i/pOWkMSkdH+rEu4AGrXWtaBwrMyrGkL6Icb6yO+P9/z0W2wlgBf3P1YRt JPgQt/Dj3yvA/UnaV/QmuVQPjl13o24UnJGsZM8XGnNdfWBKkC1Q6VXC4QT+dyBHYH9MuE9d 6oGl8pFM1+cTfEfbM62/rRoPkF1yHMsI/903VxEvuUIKfhEZAVLFyHldooNxuchntHQP9y8J 8Ou9bWYQP7MnEn+kwSwrZkjurfPkan+xQvp6dDYnj3V0GwA5pprBMaB928VIDVOv+1PNQI3t Cvk5VPv/skq+TJRMHW7bFSt8PRa91cUf1FOLIz9APDiJOzXkwxUEHGV3zPSaUhs1JYjyBeGT wDAvtLUdjOnRhEUOwlnIrztmvyciutjJoVzKEEjj5WXnHk9L9kQ1bpAjkjTONw== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/7/25 18:20, vermaden wrote: > OK, Colin Percival just announced 15.0-PRERELEASE - yet the PKGBASE concept - besides 'kinda working' - does not holds to the POLA principle at all - and if anyone will chose to use PKGBASE instead of 'classic' install the 'pkg delete -af' will not only delete all the third party packages but will also WIPE almost ENTIRE BASE SYSTEM of FreeBSD ... this is not unacceptable to say the least. POLA is inherently subjective; what astonishes one person might be exactly what another person expects. In this particular case, while someone might indeed be astonished that "forcibly delete everything" deletes everything, someone else could well be astonished if "pkg delete -f clang" doesn't in fact delete clang. > My 'vote' here does not changed. > > Lets keep pkg(8) for third party packages with: > - /etc/pkg > - /usr/local/etc/pkg > - /var/db/pkg > > Lets have pkgbase(8) for FreeBSD Base System PKGBASE with: > - /etc/pkgbase > - /usr/local/etc/pkgbase > - /var/db/pkgbase I would like this idea, except for one wrinkle: I don't think it would work. In particular, packages installed from ports might depend on packages from the base system, so having a single tool which knows about both is necessary. -- Colin Percival FreeBSD Release Engineering Lead & EC2 platform maintainer Founder, Tarsnap | www.tarsnap.com | Online backups for the truly paranoid From nobody Fri Aug 8 04:00:11 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4byr0X4yQHz645gd for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 04:00:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-yb1-xb32.google.com (mail-yb1-xb32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4byr0X1CkFz3KJM for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 04:00:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yb1-xb32.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e902e1a2996so1430836276.3 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:00:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; t=1754625625; x=1755230425; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ot99B9GWFHQ0CteksIkJaQV0PW9Q8M04QuUDLAov60I=; b=cASqU7N43uOvS4igkU+iKWOJ718Oh2Hn9MC5SHM+kfn4XnhYug8aVksHRH4+RV9FOo ZmbHq51WchMsRzmoxYE8+ibohzh5UUa1bRqhvZjHlGbaeUi7vGJMJ5FLwS7hfbbr9Zij WuUJ9jxTpRHq1x7Awgj7qtwFS2bJ4CwVO0qQiVf1eYWJ8YOWoB4TXctlRSLhd2tcOG3+ pxGVH5h1D9I3x+9T0UikcpAHJNOwPTTFS3vY8GcQpqVPomT49lmIh6LSrqSTxb8/DUi/ Izpy2O1bb3WrnJi6rLtXsHD+QcB5VgrntDgCo4SblZbjo/JUSWtNFIh2yH/p8lzwkzqB MZHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754625625; x=1755230425; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ot99B9GWFHQ0CteksIkJaQV0PW9Q8M04QuUDLAov60I=; b=AOzeeOvct5+kizzAypD71fZ0IHt3ffI3tMX+EpisiiJRM+xpdIx3J/aLFCo9LwWZiC puGK68nAmNugaTVQbkvqOWRcVPIEEy9d4vplhIaUxKqLFHuO2G1ZiopP9rg6Lm1/72oA sk+qAvb05K7+CcpH62Pd9SFmpLbTcpUr5cq1dTlAATdqMmNF+vGnaXZ8q+PnHMYCLtSQ fsRikrTvfaas/xB3LSImOREHwbJ4scxr7mjA/WR0ITsYeAGKkksl8xmN5FjyfavMwzJi BKBm95Zkfx9N5uYGiByXz+SYogE+bZ6m2sVbYbjyA2PIxPgHkadSQlJPMaZsuGZEI139 6wMA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW3jXY3KoYWeTn1rJFL8gi8Lu3zGseHN+jzzdLGc/tKLZlf659jRrodokjhUqR/F4ReRf1MSZlDeLV5feHVGJM=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzDQY/26Rr4MawIJvnXUtv/ktPIme3nt2kjMAV8jSHKef7A0a2k dCCn465LgrcxSsfUPKygb+OODvinM7ttvBtTptX9InCj43Hx1XjBUiCr/PPlyCBhSQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs8ZKyml03l8WQt8Z68Gl22COCno/zR5/eBhV84Uq9e5sv8yhvqfeqPIGjssit iTD07wBrF5u0HzozS9Kb/UfDX4Fhgm3czENWA3js1qhDNahmtNOZVj1TOxd4uU/P7vpWlcsT2vN 4oV3x988T7aQ6xJhdCkeDmFSdaUWSzQnzjcsidwjQzP0IMgT9rb15qF4nGv1eQxzQ+XN/S+eVA1 jlaJloNOxKKj6yzzXk0cjzt4v3JXBCydWBgin304bdFv2QTufhb+WB46KYZq9AyH5IEiW5v02gm WzqDySb8NVkgTKjkV3DBs1/hHexzWYUaIKsNPIxOBbvBE5IXgBXbuN/Voh1X4L1UESH0DiwJEni xYG52p2ugkuSrxLMfGJRA6grxgc9rdq3zXWswOlaSR8vMbZeGEcKDdcDy3ek= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE094H+4AK4WKXVYCz8NWvq2m3vDWDWLDX9AgZBOa4HHdhIsChgf5qqVpVUO4EQ8lcsIbYPOg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1108:b0:e8b:908a:a932 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e904b12430emr2083491276.0.1754625625054; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw1-f169.google.com (mail-yw1-f169.google.com. [209.85.128.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3f1490d57ef6-e900da4155csm3607635276.39.2025.08.07.21.00.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw1-f169.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71b6ab52e8cso17736777b3.0; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:00:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWCKSf+ja/BumqAziGmLcBzdcPmtwELbgXl6DeAulPEaARbOk9E24DAsgwn0OrAfhAa6QNrJyudGpCZDui4tVU=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWSnYcz2qYT3MSQIu/hPnaVXybLQbMPfulQA8oJQy36sR8IFeZOqpBOOi9b+fi5Ic/5zPK9mWIqdhYkj6JTlhD3@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWo9f4tnxvT+DamythFmPf1dxWdj+t9Y49bldLGocsIwm6XA/2N6jLsliCZ1ciM6UiiQddi4MACaLFXsgYHTm0=@freebsd.org X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:700e:b0:71a:2130:a8fc with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71bf0e51c86mr22529337b3.35.1754625623464; Thu, 07 Aug 2025 21:00:23 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 06:00:11 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXzvA1rStK43CVkQgc6R-AYCbYsy61CS0bzu7LjbKHOa-s9Fx_2ZxJozsS0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Colin Percival Cc: vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4byr0X1CkFz3KJM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 4:18=E2=80=AFAM Colin Percival wrote: > > On 8/7/25 18:20, vermaden wrote: > > OK, Colin Percival just announced 15.0-PRERELEASE - yet the PKGBASE con= cept - besides 'kinda working' - does not holds to the POLA principle at al= l - and if anyone will chose to use PKGBASE instead of 'classic' install th= e 'pkg delete -af' will not only delete all the third party packages but wi= ll also WIPE almost ENTIRE BASE SYSTEM of FreeBSD ... this is not unaccepta= ble to say the least. > > POLA is inherently subjective; what astonishes one person might be exactl= y > what another person expects. In this particular case, while someone migh= t > indeed be astonished that "forcibly delete everything" deletes everything= , > someone else could well be astonished if "pkg delete -f clang" doesn't in > fact delete clang. Not really. So far "the FreeBSD standard" kept things "similar" for over 30 years. If we traveled back/forward in time we would still use the same approach to configure and run stuff. Maybe except pkg-add was replaced with pkg, but still all locations are the same, configuration files format, ports build, etc. "Base" is the cornerstone of FreeBSD and its most widely known unique feature. It is like coming back to familiar stable work place, where all things does not change on a daily basis, or going to a different place and having the same familiar setup with nothing missing. There was always clear separation of "base system" and "userland". This meant all FreeBSD base release X.Y would have exactly the same predictable behavior for everyone. This is not "subjective", this is "coherence", this is self-compatibility, 1+1=3D2. If "if "pkg delete -f clang" doesn't in fact delete clang" then we go full Microsoft :-( > > My 'vote' here does not changed. > > > > Lets keep pkg(8) for third party packages with: > > - /etc/pkg > > - /usr/local/etc/pkg > > - /var/db/pkg > > > > Lets have pkgbase(8) for FreeBSD Base System PKGBASE with: > > - /etc/pkgbase > > - /usr/local/etc/pkgbase > > - /var/db/pkgbase > > I would like this idea, except for one wrinkle: I don't think it would wo= rk. > In particular, packages installed from ports might depend on packages fro= m > the base system, so having a single tool which knows about both is necess= ary. This statement is extremely dangerous. It touches clue of this discussion. It seems to reveal planning to totally break current FreeBSD design / architecture? So far "base" could work without "userland", provided consistent, coherent, and predictable working environment. Everyone had the same set of "base" tools where "userland" could be built on top, so every system could be different but had exactly the same base. I can see that "base" will not be coherent for everyone anymore. If ports start depending on base packages then circular dependencies will arise and this will be a Linux-like-mess, because there could be different versions of base packages for different port versions that will depend on different versions of base packages. Then all will be just a package and there will be no "coherent FreeBSD base" anymore right? Then 14-RELEASE will hit end-of-lie and people will be _forced_ to switch to 15-RELEASE or move away to different BSD. This sounds like FreeBSD is going full Linux :-( People already report their doubts and fears, backed by real world evidence. Do we go hey Linux Y was released, so whole world will now have to rebuild all their release packages because these were built for Linux X, and then people need to just get that package T from repo Z not from repo Q because this is not part of Y and it was there in X but Q changed its API? I hope we don't go to that moving sands area. I hope its more like hey you will finally be able to run next release on that old router with 2MB of Flash and 8MB of RAM and it will work better than Linux plus you will get all fresh packages and features with security fixes. This is how we see "progress", by getting new features in a simple familiar fashion, not by overcomplicating things that makes them unusable. I can understand that pkgbase can have its benefits, this is why it was invented and being worked on, but its design should follow well established FreeBSD standard that assures self-compatibility, so people in 10 years will still have their own favorite familiar working environment that comes from clear "base" and "userland" separation. This is still possible right? --=20 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From nobody Fri Aug 8 05:12:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4byscM4z0vz64Cgp; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 05:13:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bane.ivosev@pmf.uns.ac.rs) Received: from mail.pmf.uns.ac.rs (mail.pmf.uns.ac.rs [147.91.177.13]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.pmf.uns.ac.rs", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4byscM1CJ7z3VxR; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 05:13:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bane.ivosev@pmf.uns.ac.rs) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mail.pmf.uns.ac.rs (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pmf.uns.ac.rs (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bysc84YqFz62nM; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 07:12:56 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pmf.uns.ac.rs; s=mailpmf; t=1754629978; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=k/2eyb3ry9IfzVVnl+Mo36KKsGx0jYxhGXDg35T7P2g=; b=KkGCQ2sI7r1MCPvA+lEUr8Baj6ZjuP5DQX3HnEdMir8RnN01vyF6fLRISFfR9aHw1qa402 j1VCOkK70bDWKgDwEPzLNW3G8J0OmdC9n68l+UgAdeReifmYVr2+zns7F2doTaD0CYy/yI zpWT2kM6mc61SkfrCwFG0mp+eCyknTT9XZQywNN+Wzf5k2rS9nZEFedpMpxGhwYXYsrxZR WI+GX5c5J40MIxTxFfFBxmQUAcUyooNMfnAG0gk5xpRJL1E/2RoTYdvyv1mn3SR1vWPnlH oh8i3cx62R6Ki3kIM0dKxoNY0LkOfbHoI1yw5y77QK0yas+t5Nyoyvo90O02Gw== Message-ID: <3549941b-240f-471e-a2da-95b0f3766282@pmf.uns.ac.rs> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 07:12:55 +0200 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Reply-To: bane.ivosev@pmf.uns.ac.rs Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Language: en-US To: Tomek CEDRO , Colin Percival Cc: vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: From: Bane Ivosev Autocrypt: addr=bane.ivosev@pmf.uns.ac.rs; 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4byscM1CJ7z3VxR X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13092, ipnet:147.91.128.0/17, country:RS] On 8/7/2025 10:17 PM, Colin Percival wrote: > I would like this idea, except for one wrinkle: I don't think it would work. > In particular, packages installed from ports might depend on packages from > the base system, so having a single tool which knows about both is necessary. As someone already said "that was THE thing", clear separation for OS and ports. The fact that the FreeBSD release engineering lead is thinking along these lines, to me, is ... scary. From nobody Fri Aug 8 10:12:31 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz0Fv2KTgz63V32 for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 10:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz0Fv19Rwz3CwK; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 10:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754647955; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ESC8eaBXWlSnTaSGbkWz4CLylo1I9nRGHl8wtT7hMUA=; b=KVlLq9+15mDSBR9H3L+nwP8QuQxkcOVI4rIu84nwEwIwtCexCMLexGCcMzdF6BsTSNfZO6 pRZR+8l47Qq9IC1V5XuQqroNbFgENNzBKAMX9Q9v8OkIpa6+kVLbbUP/PwNQR8emAUD0C6 Z9pgnyoZsBhCqd3w5Du4xbU4uJIXYy6lLFdcOhqyJQpbOgGV/UUnaabyxXBYM0iKpUvSvJ gdbnrYAXiJ5y+LTOYMmqiN7NUgTDXwQMP4eZOLAxeaymrTsAzn5os2F8lNVYhTlbQiBOwq VpgWSsZoFOO0O8q+JmRSepFJXctZ48gyfT0AHVcP8s8NXKvQh5se+ARKpwHCHw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754647955; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ESC8eaBXWlSnTaSGbkWz4CLylo1I9nRGHl8wtT7hMUA=; b=edY2V+PUVEGcKjJ+/BR+xpNUwCTgxilzas7IR53MccRq21/x2CpNXfsUDzKYievdIOHrVs 2ugUxysoMXnhheAeVUd41iPScdI4YGrF8iQ+KQIb/UwqsDJaNm2InU2rEDd+DNRX3fRkrZ dQi2jJvKEDjnebmke3BdDyMbY3u2fgv79jzTEj2zPtq/KcHvz9TtQgES8ZJwF2/YkzrAO1 a2Offdx5mmo1hPPhDGD0MZWZzrnNFLXAYwftXjVC17iDh9CxrWMWL0/Q2I4J0QZBNav7sA /fvepzzmXlsKGu+2blQXkGnpj0bqIOdFeVVSpPdWVfU/DzexkKRKewq9KHRaFA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754647955; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=f33xBCTY5Hm69koNw92qZX0BBH+NHtZdQLvM2t4Bs9lY8Td+p5OyQ1K7fvDDiOKWIyvfa2 2Tcq2HHjXcTz0aeHmkf6SUXhHxvKMQsbn3/GQMDG5vpsSUGt7gR+AmgzJXCFjQzPmakYuh zsSC0rpl50SUT7OQFG8EU9JQnCsTfMeJ+2GvKnzjKLgIZdqUHO+BmgCJpIphSP991F27cp fi3fw2eka8mBAJ/oT+7/Hj/55zl+owz+T8G10rKeDQf4QHJsfKRkq4HhtFj4Awd1if1QSl OLsmHSTobxya/m+HNmbKyk45TTtWiNw3LoXs9kCy7v/FW0J6YjGeDLM+Csf0bg== Received: from fauth-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com (fauth-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.200]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: philip/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz0Fv0P4yzCmh; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 10:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) Received: from phl-compute-01.internal (phl-compute-01.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailfauth.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6ABF40068; Fri, 8 Aug 2025 06:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-01.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 08 Aug 2025 06:12:34 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdefgdduvdefheegucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvfevufffoffkjghfgggtgfesthhqmh dtredttdenucfhrhhomheprfhhihhlihhpucfrrggvphhsuceophhhihhlihhpsehfrhgv vggsshgurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeejudekfffgffekjeffgfefgfeltd ehhfffgeegveegveehvdehgedtuddvteekieenucffohhmrghinhepfhhrvggvsghsugdr ohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hphhhilhhiphdomhgvshhmthhprghuthhhphgvrhhsohhnrghlihhthidqudduieeivdei vdegkedqvdefhedukedttdekqdhphhhilhhipheppehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgsehtrh houhgslhgvrdhishdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepfedpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhr tghpthhtohepfhhrvggvsghsugesghhushhhihdrohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehfrhgvvg gsshguqdhpkhhgsggrshgvsehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtoheptgihsehf rhgvvggsshgurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ia691475d:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 8 Aug 2025 06:12:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip Paeps To: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos (was: Re: Why is my base tree not updating?) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 18:12:31 +0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0r6272) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-08-06 17:46:56 (+0800), Dan Mahoney (Ports) wrote: > I'm running pkgbase on 15-CURRENT AMD64 I'm using the repo that = > claims (per https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase) there are builds twice a = > day: > > https://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/base_latest > > And yet, when I try to update, I'm often told that I'm up to date, = > even after days or weeks, despite seeing changes in the git tree. I found some time to look into this today. pkgbase builds have been broken since the Kerberos updates hit the tree. All builds on main for all architectures fail with: --- all_subdir_usr.bin/telnet --- ld: error: undefined symbol: telnet_net_write >>> referenced by encrypt.c:895 = >>> (/home/pkgbuild/worktrees/main/contrib/telnet/libtelnet/encrypt.c:895= ) >>> encrypt.pieo:(EncryptStopInput) in archive = >>> /home/pkgbuild/obj/home/pkgbuild/worktrees/main/amd64.amd64/lib/libte= lnet/libtelnet_pie.a >>> referenced by encrypt.c:857 = >>> (/home/pkgbuild/worktrees/main/contrib/telnet/libtelnet/encrypt.c:857= ) >>> encrypt.pieo:(EncryptStopOutput) in archive = >>> /home/pkgbuild/obj/home/pkgbuild/worktrees/main/amd64.amd64/lib/libte= lnet/libtelnet_pie.a >>> referenced by encrypt.c:885 = >>> (/home/pkgbuild/worktrees/main/contrib/telnet/libtelnet/encrypt.c:885= ) >>> encrypt.pieo:(EncryptStartInput) in archive = >>> /home/pkgbuild/obj/home/pkgbuild/worktrees/main/amd64.amd64/lib/libte= lnet/libtelnet_pie.a >>> referenced 17 more times --- all_subdir_rescue --- --- realpath.lo --- --- all_subdir_usr.bin --- cc: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see = invocation) I tried to upgrade the pkgbase builder to a later version of main (our = cluster buildworld does work) and that made matters much worse: philip@costaud1.chi:~ % su Segmentation fault philip@costaud1.chi:~ % ksu ksu: Operation not permitted while selecting the best principal (Our cluster su uses pam_krb5.so.) I logged in out of band and kicked off a build for giggles: no dice. = Same telnet linker error as above. So two things need to happen for any progress to be made: - Kerberized su / pam_krb5.so su need to work. - The pkgbase builds need to be fixed in a post-Kerberos-update world. I am happy to test commits but I do not have the time to debug this = further. I have restarted the pkgbase and pkg-kmods builds on this builder so = pkgbase builds for stable/14, releng/14.2 and releng/14.3 as well as the = kmods_latest will continue to update on the previous schedule. main will continue to be broken until this gets fixed. Note that we cannot upgrade _ANY_ machines in the cluster until we have = a working su. Philip From nobody Fri Aug 8 11:02:07 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz1MX1ZCNz63YVT; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 11:02:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid2.gid.co.uk (ns0.gid.co.uk [IPv6:2001:470:94de::240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gid2.gid.co.uk", Issuer "gid2.gid.co.uk" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz1MW2ffGz3Hxx; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 11:02:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rb@gid.co.uk designates 2001:470:94de::240 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rb@gid.co.uk; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gid.co.uk Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) by gid2.gid.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 578B2NDS039629; Fri, 8 Aug 2025 12:02:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([194.32.164.24]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id 578B2HvW082174; Fri, 8 Aug 2025 12:02:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 12:02:07 +0100 Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: To: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.23 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.932]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gid.co.uk,none]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org,freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bz1MW2ffGz3Hxx X-Spamd-Bar: --- Hi, > On 8 Aug 2025, at 02:28, void wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 07, 2025 at 01:43:28AM +0200, Tomek CEDRO wrote: >> +1 =) >> >> Base and Userland should be clearly separated, as it was, as it is, no >> matter how it will be organized internally (i.e. modular base) :-) > > +1 here also. > > Why not avoid breaking POLA by having a differently-named > binary for pkgbase management? Different switches, too. > -- +1 more. Too many bullet holes in my feet already. -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk From nobody Fri Aug 8 12:09:30 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz2rq5nJQz63gwp for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:09:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz2rq4zBQz3Ngw; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:09:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754654971; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=uCGREB0uuty1CtSgmObYti4J4zg++P5+isOKa5DettU=; b=Mys7yjiZ9+73kS1PrTF8r58MWjr5E/BJMD1lOo5mMEsJlf0AAlea+ipXBrNb0Xm+rKHoo7 ra8zkrkBZvjzE6JGszXHG5SAyTMDuFR6JyAyGnkSCQUTsn6nzvxVCNq/zetr7VrXLSHOPh u5yIegYxvzYvisgaAzWTiowsVQiMsa/HcE64zT+y3cLIuvAh3Us6iHfkICu6OT4FmHu7LG f3bazpe3SUplPJUb060JSpeR9raEfMpmL5wUkmJCDpzHgGM2xNr94IXVEhWgnA+02fT9FD TpC5olcbuuVznyeWVGuH+gcrpmoe/PwSs4DZSObkfFBnMi2erv0NxsHBd9l5Tg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754654971; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=uCGREB0uuty1CtSgmObYti4J4zg++P5+isOKa5DettU=; b=fhkJE5kZzhkWSpTmjXwsMeJOoudeMWkzPo3+IPntk1fLXmE17M88a/OffprpB0u56QjShM QRf93DsCYil5KVHV2Ce0xmOk5qnQ7aJcpDRvt9c5HstZZrN+b8P39TIYvm1eXIxJ0/fnjL MGzpvjFs1xmlqhT/D7AhTL+0K98qZNONvzJnTn/j7R/Uggb+IAUzabSmckSRvfT41EVxgZ FbSfB47leqruVrykCl4/P+lXqLwcDzgXzzoP+TMZm0LP0z5L54VqelngaR+G83ZF2HsRG3 x/r/QsPpA0mO6IN8Y/zf/GqQwrU1h2fgAqNVVo4mn0E11nioZ2I7ftKsA15+fA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754654971; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=hEBWLjW2EiBVZUFgmkMbLdnJ8Zk1doyvrQ9GHId++TfoH97DBxyRmGdtbwMxoF5VfPX8wM wwvumYhRN+hna2BKExZY4Ptnri8uV0iRvkm5DXShAJjNZsMc93hIcevKy/wtK9gIN56/X7 qfCpsZLeSRQ5587lT30rCdLSSiJmp/3Hd5fQcnnU7k+HnC/iTNGJP70uzKlDw3ZoUcozhS a7LkUXD3xzs7Qq/8gd8wzf8t0X1tqahYuqezETijh8WR8KkTJfHWNI0wmtcOX7m85Hsxp6 hXxXo6R9yR6qdCntZDChnbQOAmsQduRfPWW7/6/CisxrAEwSubHxq2rjF+wgHQ== Received: from ltc.des.dev (88-177-82-251.subs.proxad.net [88.177.82.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz2rq3cZRzGd0; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:09:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3105212E9E; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:09:30 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Philip Paeps Cc: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos In-Reply-To: (Philip Paeps's message of "Fri, 08 Aug 2025 18:12:31 +0800") References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:09:30 +0200 Message-ID: <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Philip Paeps writes: > - The pkgbase builds need to be fixed in a post-Kerberos-update world. The pkgbase build is just fine in a post-Kerberos-update world. What's broken is incremental builds across the switch from Heimdal to MIT. I'm not sure this is something we want to support; we should probably force a cleanworld when build options have changed, even if it's because the defaults changed. 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Fri, 8 Aug 2025 08:23:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip Paeps To: =?utf-8?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Cc: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 20:23:38 +0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0r6272) Message-ID: <0C292B35-B580-4C49-8F76-C3966F3691B5@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2025-08-08 20:09:30 (+0800), Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Philip Paeps writes: >> - The pkgbase builds need to be fixed in a post-Kerberos-update >> world. > > The pkgbase build is just fine in a post-Kerberos-update world. > What's > broken is incremental builds across the switch from Heimdal to MIT. > I'm > not sure this is something we want to support; we should probably > force > a cleanworld when build options have changed, even if it's because the > defaults changed. I took away WITHOUT_CLEAN=1 from our make command ... still not building. Do I need a cleanharder somewhere? :) make -C $work $extra -j ${nproc} $tgt WITH_REPRODUCIBLE_BUILD=1 PKG_FORMAT=tzst __MAKE_CONF=/dev/null SRCCONF=/dev/null SRC_ENV_CONF=/dev/null REPODIR="$repodir" >$logs 2>&1 I can try blowing away the obj directory... Philip From nobody Fri Aug 8 12:30:42 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz3KJ58vnz63jZB; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:30:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz3KJ3qQWz3Q74; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:30:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754656244; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=C6elxcIjK2zGRoxBOlYtQpocN4f1itxUoBpDi1K0FyQ=; b=n5vMQa67VVDkeMLY0Quq5LkwlGw4gVRups6opXfkfwaaRNqMxxNjdN3Qj8u5xjVeuKnNE/ j61EVlX86zVUb6UQwn4u5cZR2TG8ZgePbSDYT5Qqct03i8YMwQzxwggkrcz5GH08uCk9Hc sOvC5mTumzSKM3Pe1txBNc2xJ574EPnUk7LXL9eBNdK+OPByi/OiluexLeAxwiw+5xw3V5 RDOj47FK51IXevQ2tojaG0ly6/63OLsNpR2EibUImWoYluoRCm+IhCT4mqkoCf/+zGneTc Fa4yUAZ97t6ugnAmed8AalGR9uM/+h8UzeTNnbKJQ9fhcTPX75ai+TVlbNxGbg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754656244; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=C6elxcIjK2zGRoxBOlYtQpocN4f1itxUoBpDi1K0FyQ=; b=B8DsMaSNRhpBYCP5B6Hs5eYFiz8k2uUG5SbV6nmJmbHRVFxaQv4IBDKINySpAq2zRPZw4k 5lmOXHJTgxFRAIVOqvpbJ/5kB5NGyPTKJ1INDnKOwCx/8Uz7MhbuVNJj/7iy3/CyWIeDzJ itsokj+zSgahUk7SOq1J8BtpFS8W2ZWt8ZlKOi5od8qWAHFrDj+MtJlTNd4FGPptCVB+lQ CG5YJIgMGv7jKCmel73bhAWbSFI1NxO5NsRaqeVqpd6Z9kgNVdrSvKyedsC7Zk0HWJhrw1 GSnQ0vn+VpaI3RObn6fwp/UJS7wPJsJHr4W8HYbH/3QpKi7hmhyD7yFfPffgqw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754656244; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=CFsDT7R/QEVVCKtCtWQU6Gs556W8PPnYb+OG9rIVqT9m4oQ8UJZsTU+qtlx9vYbfa4spfO zVF92eYFUZeTBnasYwZI3at03S8CJMgS2wiL698mbAjehsS9rQhySBwKohjqqE33N5/Bgu PtiPhRhbjAd9UiJSIcknaVjE3Z6iQYkvyjumFnSj0dB+pCQwRJvXDFgtwq0tZZsNd0YIvp Ybl6qYTUiAmqtmPIDwyNk9B/209M4VBncdSaBkOTfpY0nbMY73n3qfzyqww2vPXKhpxnFu ffQ441JHkkaBeFcJrFNyxw6lqFEvIrT5B1oAeb2/g7Nd7Sz4RHRRGbW7bF5Y8w== Received: from ltc.des.dev (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:c54:bed0:922e:16ff:fef1:acef]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz3KJ15HSzG8d; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:30:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5F3DE12CD1; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:30:42 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Tomek CEDRO Cc: Colin Percival , vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature In-Reply-To: (Tomek CEDRO's message of "Fri, 8 Aug 2025 06:00:11 +0200") References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:30:42 +0200 Message-ID: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tomek CEDRO writes: > Not really. So far "the FreeBSD standard" kept things "similar" for > over 30 years. If we traveled back/forward in time we would still use > the same approach to configure and run stuff. Maybe except pkg-add was > replaced with pkg, but still all locations are the same, configuration > files format, ports build, etc. I'm sorry but that's pure fantasy. In the last 30 years, we've switched our init system twice, the main system configuration moved from /etc/sysconfig to /etc/rc.conf, and we later added /etc/rc.conf.d and per-service subdirectories. The ports tree is also completely different from what it was 15 years ago, let alone 30: we've switched to staged, unprivileged builds, we've added USES and FLAVOR, we switched the primary identifier from the origin to PKGNAME, we switched to pkg (which is a much bigger change than you seem to realize)... If anything, the separation between base and ports is stronger now than ever, because we used to allow ports to install files outside of ${LOCALBASE} and even replace parts of the base system. Packaged base has been in the works for a decade and it's going in. There are rough edges, but we'll sort them out and the end result will be much, much easier to manage for everybody than what we have now. By the time FreeBSD 16.0 comes around, it will be second nature, and you will have a hard time remembering what the fuss was all about. > > [...] packages installed from ports might depend on packages from > > the base system [...] > This statement is extremely dangerous. It touches clue of this > discussion. It seems to reveal planning to totally break current > FreeBSD design / architecture? So far "base" could work without > "userland", provided consistent, coherent, and predictable working > environment. Everyone had the same set of "base" tools where > "userland" could be built on top, so every system could be different > but had exactly the same base. I can see that "base" will not be > coherent for everyone anymore. If ports start depending on base > packages then circular dependencies will arise and this will be a > Linux-like-mess, because there could be different versions of base > packages for different port versions that will depend on different > versions of base packages. Then all will be just a package and there > will be no "coherent FreeBSD base" anymore right? Then 14-RELEASE will > hit end-of-lie and people will be _forced_ to switch to 15-RELEASE or > move away to different BSD. This sounds like FreeBSD is going full > Linux :-( It's bad form to quote a large paragraph without summarizing, but this is so unhinged I couldn't figure out what to cut. It's completely off the wall, starting with the use of =E2=80=9Cuserland=E2=80=9D, a well-estab= lished term meaning =E2=80=9Ccode that isn't part of the kernel=E2=80=9D, to mean... s= omething else that I can't quite figure out. But also, there is nothing circular at all about ports depending on base. That's the way it's always been, even if we didn't explicitly record it in package metadata (apart from the shlib login in recent versions of pkg). DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Fri Aug 8 12:35:04 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz3QL4NmTz63jgG for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:35:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz3QL3hZTz3SXC; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:35:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754656506; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=yJgpvhV/NbkglY1woTPZmJqVVfbUMVZnr8zz/ImO6xo=; b=pZkZfymrhuXA5tenN/pqI05eyq7MTryD6pys+M4K5ThWZEwj3H1CgafamVxiub69wLp4sn qGQXKPX84SXqb1aH1nY6k1VX4mGDVVlE4RGx2oMddRXg2g3b5WnonqlmeeUAOPqYtX5ME6 mUgGuLmnyM0N7EudwwUw9/jpEv9wWoo2kktmcRZE9avh8v/REBzyvQvKaxXgzaAPh2DgaA ELUEl7IfcX0Hkf7hgvSoKSeDfo2TrWQTLIfetykgL3+nJo0U1hasHFyrbAb96C/VPNnMzS 43Zfi4VBbaZtBdoOl4fnXCtMPS8fl8ga+H/ec8fYHr5qNB51ItCvlte5O3IHpg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754656506; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=yJgpvhV/NbkglY1woTPZmJqVVfbUMVZnr8zz/ImO6xo=; b=y4XJ2V+5onaKU1vvnNFFnGOugaeTRjlaGsickQyYpimXFP7nCcIsoql3/8Hwj+IQBj0bar xRo/58vhI1SFcLYs3GqWi0Bn7wMVThUdHYy3FJic5mRQT31eTJ0E9KMYhaTz4B2QU2p3iy 48kdDbrOZUIOSMrDCj+MoQmDB7Uu8t0YHec9BjNNO/96IhRuKeshbreM5pUzdMqubRe22S W2uGJtJjRNaIJXRQiN2B9nNoH7OoLokLXn+BLBgPDrKqR392iPM8GziEHB5EuVi3u0tgoa 9l//6wQBbtF13tduWBEqo22S7JsrmgXeZ+hMB5bTtppI9D8A95yd7DIcFhPytg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754656506; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=tgODjrx7hx2i+3GWtL2ZlEpmrhETfu+vMLSNnqlO6ku+GFNEdYg+i5s4d13+e3YFuVqne1 4Dg2u4lgEUSYdvUy+z9hz8KxECoWA5iVHdcL41MZ7WzLcLcJJeKu1oKWtCs87BrOZePBfV NK4azgb5LgnZ7aFjoLLpCA5XJSsVFblEaXIlL/tr/zw/5XrpSDYTrjshYNr6ByVI4MkPY4 2fVAKdUo68xVkIfhFxH0i9fwh7Fn637K2QSgcoNNBa4Oz2CFHKjj6khQn3Y9sdXKJbJmDo +xggypVZidHzhszeoG7bF/2hWcu2z36N1yBdEN4Qo7MNY+TikpnJaqNe9SgIzw== Received: from ltc.des.dev (88-177-82-251.subs.proxad.net [88.177.82.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz3QL29qbzHH0; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:35:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E0EF611CB7; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:35:04 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Philip Paeps Cc: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos In-Reply-To: <0C292B35-B580-4C49-8F76-C3966F3691B5@freebsd.org> (Philip Paeps's message of "Fri, 08 Aug 2025 20:23:38 +0800") References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <0C292B35-B580-4C49-8F76-C3966F3691B5@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:35:04 +0200 Message-ID: <86y0ru2dqf.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Philip Paeps writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > > The pkgbase build is just fine in a post-Kerberos-update world. > > What's broken is incremental builds across the switch from Heimdal > > to MIT. > I took away WITHOUT_CLEAN=3D1 from our make command ... still not > building. WITHOUT_CLEAN is the default in main, and has been for over a year. You need to either set WITH_CLEAN=3D1 or explicitly run `make cleanworld`. See ba373fca78a114768244d6a8c27983da870c1169. 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Fri, 8 Aug 2025 08:41:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip Paeps To: =?utf-8?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Cc: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 20:41:01 +0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0r6272) Message-ID: <4CF5C528-A937-4A0E-A2BB-78D0119A0F94@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <86y0ru2dqf.fsf@ltc.des.dev> References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <0C292B35-B580-4C49-8F76-C3966F3691B5@freebsd.org> <86y0ru2dqf.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2025-08-08 20:35:04 (+0800), Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Philip Paeps writes: >> Dag-Erling Smørgrav writes: >>> The pkgbase build is just fine in a post-Kerberos-update world. >>> What's broken is incremental builds across the switch from Heimdal >>> to MIT. >> I took away WITHOUT_CLEAN=1 from our make command ... still not >> building. > > WITHOUT_CLEAN is the default in main, and has been for over a year. > You > need to either set WITH_CLEAN=1 or explicitly run `make cleanworld`. > See ba373fca78a114768244d6a8c27983da870c1169. THANK YOU! <3 <3 <3 I've just stuck a "cleanworld" in there. If this completes successfully, I'll take that away again and let things run as they did before. I'm doing this with the Very Large Hammer tonight. I'll put some more surgical flags in our automation so we can simply add a cleanbuild when needed in future. ...then we just need people to let us know when we need to set those flags... :) Thanks for the pointer to the cleanworld commit. That helps! 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Fri, 8 Aug 2025 08:55:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip Paeps To: =?utf-8?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Cc: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: pkgbase is NOT broken because of Kerberos (was: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 20:55:00 +0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0r6272) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2025-08-08 20:09:30 (+0800), Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > Philip Paeps writes: >> - The pkgbase builds need to be fixed in a post-Kerberos-update >> world. > > The pkgbase build is just fine in a post-Kerberos-update world. > What's > broken is incremental builds across the switch from Heimdal to MIT. > I'm > not sure this is something we want to support; we should probably > force > a cleanworld when build options have changed, even if it's because the > defaults changed. pkgbase builds are now ok. Sorry for the noise. -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> World build completed on Fri Aug 8 12:47:46 UTC 2025 >>> World built in 1200 seconds, ncpu: 64, make -j64 -------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to DES for the gentle tap with the clue mallet. pkgsync should notice this build shortly and it will turn up on the mirrors not much later. I've taken the cleanworld away again. I'll cook up proper flags for that in the coming days. Unfortunately though ... > philip@costaud1.chi:~ % su > Segmentation fault > philip@costaud1.chi:~ % ksu > ksu: Operation not permitted while selecting the best principal > > (Our cluster su uses pam_krb5.so.) This still needs to be fixed. I've narrowed this down to probably pam_ksu.so. Happy to test patches. 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[209.85.219.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3f1490d57ef6-e8fd38912b6sm7207327276.37.2025.08.08.06.33.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Aug 2025 06:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e7311e66a8eso1924064276.2; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 06:33:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUOEBFT7LmZyNclJus0ANTtPW45CBGG/Mp8SCDoMpxFOm0R+qGEflzFC9im6QjTDwm11eDatpmOFQ==@freebsd.org, AJvYcCUvVH0X5F5I1OhJlXQDDrZSIIlXIvdw5kBDTaUCkCiQ9dveWxWWXkxLsns6sYYU4/FaARlp2fHWT75M8w6Cjfm/@freebsd.org, AJvYcCVu+Y4qRprC/o3pbimyjmgGBfhvIFehiVaQzKMWmhN2sgVmB5HuNa0vtLgRZUtKEnXiRo3L76fqA0+lLVpZ47mf@freebsd.org, AJvYcCX+gazQSP4tT4by4mpinlMWPDqTc7SGOY5I1Dn0Q/WF+XBgxa0PXNjtabtmGUMUH09+JxJ44EKYBPkEPQn12oU=@freebsd.org X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:9691:b0:71a:41be:133 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71bf0d3d579mr38267507b3.14.1754659998762; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 06:33:18 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> In-Reply-To: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 15:33:06 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXzqGzywySf5FkzDPcBmw7sfFlLK0wkARrY_ubvcey09Eqtam1ogQHAskrY Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag=2DErling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= Cc: Tomek CEDRO , Colin Percival , vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bz4jZ4P74z3fNH X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 2:30=E2=80=AFPM Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > > Tomek CEDRO writes: > > Not really. So far "the FreeBSD standard" kept things "similar" for > > over 30 years. If we traveled back/forward in time we would still use > > the same approach to configure and run stuff. Maybe except pkg-add was > > replaced with pkg, but still all locations are the same, configuration > > files format, ports build, etc. > > I'm sorry but that's pure fantasy. In the last 30 years, we've switched > our init system twice, the main system configuration moved from > /etc/sysconfig to /etc/rc.conf, and we later added /etc/rc.conf.d and > per-service subdirectories. The ports tree is also completely different > from what it was 15 years ago, let alone 30: we've switched to staged, > unprivileged builds, we've added USES and FLAVOR, we switched the > primary identifier from the origin to PKGNAME, we switched to pkg (which > is a much bigger change than you seem to realize)... If anything, the > separation between base and ports is stronger now than ever, because we > used to allow ports to install files outside of ${LOCALBASE} and even > replace parts of the base system. Yes, but from user perspective these changes were easy to adapt to :-) > Packaged base has been in the works for a decade and it's going in. > There are rough edges, but we'll sort them out and the end result will > be much, much easier to manage for everybody than what we have now. By > the time FreeBSD 16.0 comes around, it will be second nature, and you > will have a hard time remembering what the fuss was all about. Looks like 15 will be a "great adventure", that just started with a pre-release and early testing feedback. I hope it turns out well in the end, as planned, I believe you know what you are doing, I really keep my fingers crossed, good luck guys :-) Maybe its just worth considering putting EOL to 14 after 16.1 is out? :-P > > > [...] packages installed from ports might depend on packages from > > > the base system [...] > > This statement is extremely dangerous. It touches clue of this > > discussion. It seems to reveal planning to totally break current > > FreeBSD design / architecture? So far "base" could work without > > "userland", provided consistent, coherent, and predictable working > > environment. Everyone had the same set of "base" tools where > > "userland" could be built on top, so every system could be different > > but had exactly the same base. I can see that "base" will not be > > coherent for everyone anymore. If ports start depending on base > > packages then circular dependencies will arise and this will be a > > Linux-like-mess, because there could be different versions of base > > packages for different port versions that will depend on different > > versions of base packages. Then all will be just a package and there > > will be no "coherent FreeBSD base" anymore right? Then 14-RELEASE will > > hit end-of-lie and people will be _forced_ to switch to 15-RELEASE or > > move away to different BSD. This sounds like FreeBSD is going full > > Linux :-( > > It's bad form to quote a large paragraph without summarizing, but this > is so unhinged I couldn't figure out what to cut. It's completely off > the wall, starting with the use of =E2=80=9Cuserland=E2=80=9D, a well-est= ablished term > meaning =E2=80=9Ccode that isn't part of the kernel=E2=80=9D, to mean... = something else > that I can't quite figure out. But also, there is nothing circular at > all about ports depending on base. That's the way it's always been, > even if we didn't explicitly record it in package metadata (apart from > the shlib login in recent versions of pkg). Its just fear, outlined by a speculation, sure, we don't know how this story ends, but this fear is shared and expressed here by many folks, that FreeBSD may turn into Linux, a place where lots of us been and never want to come back, not to mention any commercial closed source OS :-) Maybe a (wiki?) reference page with clear outline of benefits, goals, identified problems, and todos would cut all those speculations? Thanks! :-) Tomek ps/2: will this pkgbase allow running 15/16 on 2MB Flash and 8MB RAM router= ? :D --=20 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From nobody Fri Aug 8 13:42:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz4wT3D6tz63s6Z; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:42:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz4wS6cJTz3knX; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754660568; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=F0xP/VmsaNjInQrTgywMp4J0RX9Jmb7LpoTYXJyR5TA=; b=bdsnFp+95gxLIttqJJ1yxi8UjZbN4Ey1s7S9/DNbGi6FHMEwMXBOEjkp9+G3c7BZyK5Jcr hMzCZuexMGS+mcSZPYoeAD3lYyceX1e6TwkDp1R9MaSLRwtI9bMSOkF1wUAQ1eWzVrK27R +InEa+O1aoqZdkP0rv6yPxN6/NNg/LGAxMqwBCWQoPXTRrY4+MGgPSERaOKFznfqUb/7Sd O07i2vIwsOe5MtXpH+0/lTm/bwbhLNi5U4htvHme4zpDbEbxR5QgMKfHWtXmjeHE4l8WX9 w9qB5xTeJI6fDNuVfKagRgND1l9RqRkwlLZdSB/yKb6MenRRoqBJh8NJ/kshHA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754660568; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=F0xP/VmsaNjInQrTgywMp4J0RX9Jmb7LpoTYXJyR5TA=; b=PSDoLwrN0wC+xJS0tVKZtBafdVYLqenn0TS4nNnwaZSx7VbJch5ADCxolBE8s9olY5b6iF YcRc/vgMzku04AfiUo1gbdb9xSZT3zDy0hnv/oUwN5DOPKAkFd+issifffKMbLY6xxzEqO aV2CNntt6gBkTrrkIJimfwN8CLKuusmfnLbCXzDICtzqlnzdubDd5cqp3A8+RHmb8tA6f4 6B4wSTDy0qxByyjegbaRAOLJptV79LwN0FpUuTYrpc5NeP0owRlOC9JKanPPnSImLr+Ay6 9ac6WmP1q+bzCaeCwSy6GcvuhxUoeUj2n0WjQ/11xB1G909nmg3Z9hxtKl1zOQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754660568; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Ip9c4yFTDinveVYnwxULdfuW9dfMX40UuGKsF5mSppOY+HriqS+JuLG6LMydvfl1wGIpJV 8e1M+PaBSsE6nTSHgDBHQJyHmZQ0KqxdZPn2NEJIFN7XwbH/Tm38TvGS5rp1WEqC4mnf8z EaL9kJyFMMLAYqpythI1IFeHxb6DZaPbLNl2vxTbnKDRXP8lYu82ANWHQbaqNQnsKW+Wcz sQVTwa3HS+pJHCcluNmRChXDHdt6GFCdYhOMNYGL7D9RJmGnBwLs9p2Locklaqs2dMswvW L47qvrMgaKiS7NZc9RSV44YjTtBcD0XTdNjZNIFw8sT1FwJceqy4idkS4uUDpw== Received: from ltc.des.dev (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:c54:bed0:922e:16ff:fef1:acef]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz4wS5JhGzJkj; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A0C87125F3; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:42:47 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Tomek CEDRO Cc: Colin Percival , vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature In-Reply-To: (Tomek CEDRO's message of "Fri, 8 Aug 2025 15:33:06 +0200") References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:42:47 +0200 Message-ID: <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tomek CEDRO writes: > [...] from user perspective these changes were easy to adapt to :-) So will this one. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Fri Aug 8 13:47:34 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz52C0hkLz63sTL; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:47:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz52C04xSz3nfQ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:47:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754660867; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=3/Zdxs5PDDCk1BpZK5RRj24WhgMeXeMO/jACZd6YPZ0=; b=Dz1wRT9nKMrjhvdnvKCvUZCVZS0xMqs6WP/OOJcM09q0NcwTeWOjpkUqi/BJe9IQbLR8wf lxkelvfmdjHaIJ6Uqp5qo8o0ZSsaSnIdpvlt0VnC54oGEYe8gTsOGJAySLX+j0VuBO46O8 GbLkqXfZ4419pvlau9UsSBeX/Jwd1pEsSfjHReZPgHufBu3g26MH7yRSnQBKMYDA3IXMHe rp+bpsdUNLQ432bVYG0P2XQartuDN9DdHchXw+uLoeX7WAnHYII0PIbHGe10gfuTTzCKHk q4h6AUKjdu88yJdU7SlaWCSbqfMIUan3qJIcxVpZk9PnRv1T7pq9nBc2/cVO3Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754660867; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=3/Zdxs5PDDCk1BpZK5RRj24WhgMeXeMO/jACZd6YPZ0=; b=E0KAOA0FAd3GSrfynbbYtB9iDnYjJfQ5uLnZGIIBjdc1Z4/1B8E3syG+ujU9zoQjKRDJdC isv3XBK/HpHOVAlQIYDB/7sSCnksAcaNBI0hlw1FJSQMncS+SXNuYAgLcKRY/aQV82M3nX BE/slcb4TfljcuhGxjpyC+de+BPQq1GcClBFDocg5bbTnhaUMIB+OKOZd/GqIAMyGdR8+b VCPm+GucAheegVrtc8Etbs6+W33BE9wD2li6pufcGI5i2HUsILUdtWlilbd8/jr9FBVDkh OUeMazwnkNLlV4pxiQbBv+TpfAWUnYktyBUKVwtshG+m4m5ZDXTDIiXuxWj7Ng== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754660867; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qHylkzfIV/SfBDWTiOJ0gZAy6kN1CcO8yNMjnYdVO1PQwVKpzRHxCRuEs3sw7HgfAgZcCS tTMpKgE/J0YLGN5JMYkTZzJMGhRqpM5guc71Coxv4hcKITGTxXMCaTeCHRRbUafrksC7Vm knvZRHOA1KSohmIrIvHb5pg5h88lgniNjwxPFWpLEeGCaggUif0DS03PtW8g8oY7dfg5P/ bTfD4c5UtxMoHh0iQzBdji4V3lr+oKqlADebQu9Nx3ba21GRO1rsDOAXZwc8UZG6yXky5z sW5gAM2DxevQ6JSGNTSg/Vr+xi9mYB1mepLxGt1EIfsP5yLK9kKcaGk761aduw== Received: from smtp.theravensnest.org (smtp.theravensnest.org [45.77.103.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: theraven) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz52B6NsczJ7R; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:47:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host86-143-41-189.range86-143.btcentralplus.com [86.143.41.189]) by smtp.theravensnest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 08037BD2; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:47:45 +0100 (BST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 14:47:34 +0100 Cc: vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> References: To: Santiago Martinez X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) On 8 Aug 2025, at 14:20, Santiago Martinez wrote: >=20 > For example =E2=80=9Cpkg upgrade -t base=E2=80=9D, to act on FreeBSD = base and =E2=80=9Cpkg upgrade=E2=80=9D to perform actions on non-base = packages. You are assuming that there are two repositories. Since its = introduction, `pkg` has supported an unlimited number of repositories, = and in a pkgbase world, I=E2=80=99d expect large-scale systems to have = four: - Packages built from base. - Packages built from ports that are tied to the kernel version. - Packages built from ports that are expected to work across all of the = supported base systems in a major release series. - Packages built from other sources for local deployment. The last three exist today even without pkgbase. There may also be = other third-party (non-ports) package sets. You can already act on a specific repository by passing -r to `pkg`. = The thing you seem to want is for *some* actions to not apply to all = repositories. I think that will lead to far more confusion in the long = term. For example: If I do `pkg upgrade`, do you expect everything to be upgraded? I do. = And if it doesn=E2=80=99t, I expect there will be a lot of confusion = because a minor release dropping out of the support window will change = the minimum requirements for the base system and so failing to upgrade = base-system packages will cause breakage in packages built from ports. =20= So if we avoid that breakage, and say that `pkg upgrade` applies to all = packages, but `pkg delete -a` doesn=E2=80=99t. Now we have = inconsistency across subcommands. And that=E2=80=99s also confusing. David From nobody Fri Aug 8 13:56:18 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz5DG4Dzvz63tLh; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:56:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz5DG3TnBz3rrh; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:56:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754661390; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ft8koDpOl+Y3sKv9dtzjy4W6q9I4f/gC5BBQ+EhC6y4=; b=BliUzyOeDAHFvxzpQhbnrWMSGVXYZmbtKS0cbQL9gOST+AHa6UZZY2ZOLIEXT+ClEOmhu5 y31JJrlqE8CUdqwblXYpDMWgbq4iY/t6X2vQNit24hPck1nKjPdZpVx/bXv9dpd2cS5WGV rSybF4Km0jPAvYq2WDHyWorrQBRRXeomEGJszu2VC3Am9J9XgLrikVacSPS+q/ZKy68ouo qmUlhF3D2MK7jJkv79uWOwy2VWjWThCW0y2wzKHXPhrWaaDJwu6vmDwg4lWpKBLAVlo9/Q m1PlWk54EE2NUyTyo3DPUDUwPuZZCZLV38EXfH5XydgD+XJ0lJELnsgJ8M5ekQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754661390; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ft8koDpOl+Y3sKv9dtzjy4W6q9I4f/gC5BBQ+EhC6y4=; b=Xn9AurQ5Qh8ZF/ylE0pgxH0bgZwiZa3kcAiXnupuqCPvBrn9shvedssbxgXHP4ILxxoecx zzCbXg90sDgNx1qX5a1nl70PfyhGiuT8iLPOJfGhfD4GsVtiGg24tlhz5piU0Q7llr+3WW VTO0X7DbtxmdmjFYNsEfWrZUHruUYzN0lcB9hNxzmPLCrmwZi9gPdIgLuusWC2RjjJoydl Y10slb3wfErED0+htC0FhEto4fdcY+cqiajN1kVhHnArAKYoOegWXxMfzOCAD3gCWM6CjV CCvEwKuGzrKPTh5JaRDtHuuYhjhlKU9dHoKCDV0X6fq92mN4fsteKCZfzKf6AA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754661390; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=w9IbVfteds4VCdRcoo7xdiINd6bDfiKkXRrgolDv2X1fwYLnROJEKmxuH+Wv6k8NN0rfJM jhLqCHUs7dGWLaukP9LJRR7JyaDr8AU8Qz7ud6WhmVKW+wduNhSg9qJ04Ind+ZjjEN0Yz+ 56+nAD4w6uerNg0X3gKFdsFd7knbnIY4m72tlze/kzJ9FxnlB7QgUM/cGsyTpLXxYUtr0Y AuIp3xm6GvSdXJx1Y08bIza63WMnygAgayjUutzw4B2L7T9vjPg/rbZ+FhR02aanA1Gxj1 TEpAGicbuiBMbwfe8pHr1AHPOydme9sgtO2r9hszarrT/x3l54ohB/wOA3okSw== Received: from smtp.theravensnest.org (smtp.theravensnest.org [45.77.103.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: theraven) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz5DG2sjDzJkr; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:56:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host86-143-41-189.range86-143.btcentralplus.com [86.143.41.189]) by smtp.theravensnest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88B1BBD3; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:56:29 +0100 (BST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 14:56:18 +0100 Cc: Tomek CEDRO , Colin Percival , vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) On 8 Aug 2025, at 14:42, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav = wrote: >=20 > Tomek CEDRO writes: >> [...] from user perspective these changes were easy to adapt to :-) >=20 > So will this one. Let=E2=80=99s remember the thing that started this entire thread: `pkg = delete -af` This is an *incredibly* stupid thing to do. Long before pkg came along, = I did the equivalent of this and managed to lock myself out of a = headless box by doing this because I forgot that I was using the ports = version of openssh instead of the base one. There are lots of other ways that deleting all packages will break your = system. This is why `pkg delete` *shows you a list of packages that it = will delete*, whether you specify `-a` or a single package. If you add `-f`, you are explicitly saying =E2=80=98I know what I am = doing, I don=E2=80=99t need to see the list of packages, I know exactly = what is happening=E2=80=99. To all of the people worrying about this: In the decade since pkg was = introduced, how many times have you *ever* run `pkg delete -af`? My = guess, for 99% of users, the answer is zero. It=E2=80=99s like running = rm -rf without checking what=E2=80=99s in a directory first. This entire long thread is because someone did a large destructive = operation, using a tool that defaults to telling them in detail what it = will do and giving them a chance to stop, and intentionally put the tool = in the mode where it didn=E2=80=99t do that. If that=E2=80=99s the most likely way of accidentally breaking a FreeBSD = system, we=E2=80=99re in an amazing position. I doubt it=E2=80=99s even = in the top 100. David From nobody Fri Aug 8 14:08:43 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz5VQ3kc9z63vJn for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:08:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from omta003.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net (omta001.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net [3.97.99.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz5VQ26m8z3x9k; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:08:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from shw-obgw-4001a.ext.cloudfilter.net ([10.228.9.142]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPS id kMf8uYoC69JM2kNm1uiDxP; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:08:45 +0000 Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.66.136.217]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPSA id kNm0uwzYAWX70kNm0uMq3a; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:08:45 +0000 X-Auth-User: cschuber X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=d71WygjE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=689604ed a=h7br+8Ma+Xn9xscxy5znUg==:117 a=h7br+8Ma+Xn9xscxy5znUg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=2OwXVqhp2XgA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=ZK7HKqBsIWCP5WmKIOwA:9 a=3ZKOabzyN94A:10 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy.cwsent.com [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2E52D3; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slippy.cwsent.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A4BA0228; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 07:08:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.8+dev Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Philip Paeps cc: =?utf-8?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos In-reply-to: <0C292B35-B580-4C49-8F76-C3966F3691B5@freebsd.org> References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <0C292B35-B580-4C49-8F76-C3966F3691B5@freebsd.org> Comments: In-reply-to Philip Paeps message dated "Fri, 08 Aug 2025 20:23:38 +0800." List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 07:08:43 -0700 Message-Id: <20250808140843.A4BA0228@slippy.cwsent.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfHH7BTIQLGFBuGl3oBXAPr2Zv50drsQDOUg9aJfPmEYVPL69XLXKgMJb/wtPufEFY4RVwj1C3UvfNgD+dYWQLcXfD3qamZmik1C+31JCaYuo4LSQm8nf PjHMflFKtDbuTsHTmzm194mUcredTIWV9BkhIxJexQLf+z7lY9suSg74yWYDOhKkLL50rlzYVWZDHGPR2fn7EUTUTfaZX9OVMVMuEjW9zj/fJd+zcj1+I8Az k1cXU9d3gqpnhwLcDhfSy9CTJNVAIFgAXLV/n2PMIQbzFTfGwfxdhkrkl9Tc+6IY+qUp0q5GUrzF0oWrfGnX6A== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bz5VQ26m8z3x9k X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:3.96.0.0/15, country:US] In message <0C292B35-B580-4C49-8F76-C3966F3691B5@freebsd.org>, Philip Paeps wri tes: > On 2025-08-08 20:09:30 (+0800), Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > Philip Paeps writes: > >> - The pkgbase builds need to be fixed in a post-Kerberos-update > >> world. > > > > The pkgbase build is just fine in a post-Kerberos-update world. > > What's > > broken is incremental builds across the switch from Heimdal to MIT. > > I'm > > not sure this is something we want to support; we should probably > > force > > a cleanworld when build options have changed, even if it's because the > > defaults changed. > > I took away WITHOUT_CLEAN=1 from our make command ... still not > building. > > Do I need a cleanharder somewhere? :) I don't trust WITHOUT_CLEAN. For me it's been broken for a while. I recall a discussion on one of the MLs about WITHOUT_CLEAN not working sometime over the past few years. I rm -rf /usr/obj/*. > > make -C $work $extra -j ${nproc} $tgt WITH_REPRODUCIBLE_BUILD=1 > PKG_FORMAT=tzst __MAKE_CONF=/dev/null SRCCONF=/dev/null > SRC_ENV_CONF=/dev/null REPODIR="$repodir" >$logs 2>&1 > > I can try blowing away the obj directory... I've been doing that for years ever since someone on a ML mentioned something about it. > > Philip -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org e**(i*pi)+1=0 From nobody Fri Aug 8 14:20:40 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz5mN18GYz63wct; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:20:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz5mM71Twz420J; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:20:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754662852; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=GadmaPY9Ot1obF4GytWLao3FT2ViHCL92vuAtXDqc+E=; b=yla1MGqvlj7tqRYRZtcgIyKPGEXL40UnkTK6SRsXuyI+sSy9evrwlclmr7/CgcBIRD6G8H u3eHpLDTHNzOSdUlUEG29LEqNnijQCWSno+9ra/J0K68P763ETMnNwWkUcYyp9Z5j7v7ko w6bT1OHylJ4b4BpucYbCp7qxwGZLpQ1SxKvVUAdO8Oa+jGtzx86vFBb/STX89+RwTIbeM9 n4vz4ceyMziTpK2ltBApfkBlE7V3mlGGy37LfUpRGwuK4THYxNRBJAw6MUYZhmK/sDYcre nKhg2WbOfPKnIIOoHhXUM+trM0ySyrEP1uteL40kMl1FgfRDXmqMSYdUoPCIlA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754662852; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=GadmaPY9Ot1obF4GytWLao3FT2ViHCL92vuAtXDqc+E=; b=M3jzw9YTnyHZtBebee5D619V09txawOiIxTysyigZB068QFxDoffdiikUMlDGhDaZKObH0 Dv5IUbBaw0JnfQGx9L/3nl5sq71bkX3jQo0eHOf9Vp0zOug6/24/UtEwD1Ffj4l/jgmvrz l7GLSGr1xJQnGvWfZn5f0h9PMBQ7PMP/9AbVSzPL1/de1HbcAIk72+qvirrkzRhtBcP8xV gn0fg6t3FR7hdGXoWKkR8IHvbwV9X49sWeVyqRxLSGjZwc9Ae8colYPn0oWHRk14zFZN3G 8IkyN5Rd+DX8hpZ1OvVLDwF9Z3Lt3+cCMhw2mQTNi1TYlPzGlRHgB0i1dkV98w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754662852; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=vu8I43CjT0/8o6rCoB4bI5xIc/hJ7UTJZFvF6xTMj+f0Cs0uocGfsa1xkSixVaPcQeTPrN O1taqbOAsP24l4MFjfHcuH2nCQUPm7GjcQ1qfjIrxcOCBXpnjAY0atQk/ZTPa7oUUXLQW8 9A6vvafGIjBtb70JagyUVSHHSXpEMjlj58p1Lh5L65l3a9LbE3FNFOchiRNlQ4FcZREzKk u2QMApdwaeHQYOqHE00lBz2Bje6CchBEiVWli++xKNCfUYDnkBnnb7qEwjkdBxf8QcC+s2 eydfGa9lXGawjTRzXBEPk4QZ5f2TacA9YC3Eh5LHTYKnfqrL+N5BidNvwsKQ5Q== Received: from smtp.theravensnest.org (smtp.theravensnest.org [45.77.103.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: theraven) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bz5mM6FSCzHpY; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:20:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host86-143-41-189.range86-143.btcentralplus.com [86.143.41.189]) by smtp.theravensnest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 21B09BD4; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:20:51 +0100 (BST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 15:20:40 +0100 Cc: vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> To: Santiago Martinez X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) On 8 Aug 2025, at 15:02, Santiago Martinez wrote: >=20 > Hi David, I see your point. >=20 > For me, no pkg command (upgrade / install : delete / lock) should act = on base without the user explicitly targeting base. Why? > This is the same we have today. No extra complexity or confusion, = actually it is quite simple , if you want to touch your base system just = explicitly targeting it ( what we do today with FreeBSD-update) What is the reason that you would want to install updates for packages = built by ports and *not* want to install updates to the base system? Currently, you need to do these separately because they are managed by = two separate tools, but that=E2=80=99s an accident. It was never a = deliberate usability choice to have different ways of updating different = parts of the system. Fixing this is one of the goals of pkgbase. > Regarding the non-base package dependencies with base, it will be also = the same as today. If this is something we are looking to get rid of = then is a different situation. Fixing this is one of the benefits of pkgbase: there is a single upgrade = command, unless you explicitly restrict what it is updating (via -r) = then it will upgrade everything that is out of date. > Nothing stops the user from upgrading base (target base) then = upgrading the rest. Or to have a target that is =E2=80=9Call=E2=80=9D. This is still possible with pkgbase. If you want to stage things, = simply use the `-r` flag. But when do you *actively want* that? =20 > I think most of the FreeBSD user like the separation of base and non = base and the current status seems to get rid of it. Hence some of us = are putting attention to it ( maybe too much) This is a gross mischaracterisation driven by Vermaden=E2=80=99s love of = hyperbole. No one is removing the distinction between the base system and ports. = The base system remains: - The thing installed in /, not in /usr/local (or whatever else you put = in $LOCALBASE when you build the ports). - A uniform set of things maintained by the project. - The set of things with stable ABI guarantees during a major release. - A self-contained set of things with no external dependencies. - A set of things with a support lifecycle maintained by the FreeBSD = Release Engineering team. Every single one of these properties (and probably others I haven=E2=80=99= t thought of) are preserved. The only difference is that upgrades are = simpler because I have a uniform tool that manages all of the things = that the FreeBSD project distributes (and other things that other people = distribute as package repos). Every upgrade flow I have on every FreeBSD machine I use is simplified = by pkgbase. Having fewer tools is a usability win. Having a single = command upgrade everything is a usability win. If you *want to* upgrade = only some things, that=E2=80=99s one extra command-line flag. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID fbcbf72a96ada09b68bcdd3fe5f71bcb; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:58:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: RE: git: 66c75fa63aff - main - freebsd-update: Fix the pkgbase check [-r basedir vs. -c basedir use --and the documentation?] Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 07:58:01 -0700 Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-pkg@freebsd.org To: Mark Johnston , dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) References: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.204:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.204:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bz6bW2dMdz3DK9 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Mark Johnston wrote on Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 13:00:45 UTC : > The branch main has been updated by markj: >=20 > URL: = https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=3D66c75fa63aff40e9c587345b2cc6b814= 8e396de8 >=20 > commit 66c75fa63aff40e9c587345b2cc6b8148e396de8 > Author: Mark Johnston > AuthorDate: 2025-08-06 20:36:05 +0000 > Commit: Mark Johnston > CommitDate: 2025-08-08 12:51:54 +0000 >=20 > freebsd-update: Fix the pkgbase check >=20 > Even on a pkgbase system, it should be possible to use freebsd-update = -j > to upgrade a non-pkgbase jail, at least for the time being. However, > the check_pkgbase() call came before get_params, so BASEDIR was always > set to /. >=20 > Make check_pkgbase() a pure function and call it after get_params(). > While here, use pkg -r ${BASEDIR} instead of pkg -c ${BASEDIR} since = the > latter requires root privileges. Does this -r vs -c change have consequences such as which /var/cache/pkg/ or whatever is updated (or if such is updated)? In other words, can -r fully substitute for -c? (If it could, I'd wonder why -c even exists.) Might there be uninstended conseqeucnes to the change? May be the pkg man page should be more explicit about when to use -r vs. -c for the base dir? > freebsd-update is supposed to be run > as root, but it doesn't actually check this that I can see, so let's = not > make that assumption here since it affects the result of the function > (i.e., pkg -c ${BASEDIR} always fails as a non-root user). >=20 > Reviewed by: des > Fixes: 856e158dc4aa ("freebsd-update: improve pkgbase check") > MFC after: 2 weeks > Differential Revision: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D51770 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Fri Aug 8 14:59:54 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz6dT0ZShz640nr; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:59:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from DutchDaemon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz6dS6tQRz3DmZ; 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Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:01:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (bladnoch-wifi.home.andric.com [192.168.0.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0C5E65E2C; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:00:58 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: Dimitry Andric In-Reply-To: <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 17:00:58 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , Tomek CEDRO , Colin Percival , vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) On 8 Aug 2025, at 15:56, David Chisnall wrote: >=20 > On 8 Aug 2025, at 14:42, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav = wrote: >>=20 >> Tomek CEDRO writes: >>> [...] from user perspective these changes were easy to adapt to :-) >>=20 >> So will this one. >=20 > Let=E2=80=99s remember the thing that started this entire thread: `pkg = delete -af` >=20 > This is an *incredibly* stupid thing to do. Long before pkg came = along, I did the equivalent of this and managed to lock myself out of a = headless box by doing this because I forgot that I was using the ports = version of openssh instead of the base one. I'm one of the people that regularly runs `pkg delete -af`, even with = `-y` added. :) That said, I only use this when I have completely = rebuilt a ports collection with poudriere against a newer base jail, and = then I'd like to start completely from scratch with freshly installed = packages. This also clears out any unnecessary non-leaf packages there = were pulled in by a previous package build. Obviously that is an outlier scenario! But does pkg have a way to = express "show me packages only from this particular repo", or "delete = only packages from this particular repo"? That would make it easy to do = "delete only the packages from ports, not from base". -Dimitry From nobody Fri Aug 8 15:03:41 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz6k25Rvmz641cW; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:03:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo73.interia.pl (smtpo73.interia.pl [217.74.67.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz6k229lwz3KPr; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:03:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:03:41 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , "sthaug@nethelp.no" Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> References: <20250808.091053.1322595805169591390.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754665425; bh=7IwM1nAjTL+19LbCl7Bmk+Q8sRz+scmgUr14snucekg=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=vEj0cuMUfMnE79J5QBevhmUggjM1M8GBghwFEd9Rqntr3VXTfPIyevJZb3W9YRoz1 3tZcOKqEBM6rGdzS7KPbBpleqifyfVmrYwMCcu3CepVepRyZXcEfPi8cwYYdAPziA9 T41Sj/i0SQTA1AHQ2/qIWMqh9oswgjn0Fcpong7U= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bz6k229lwz3KPr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Current 'vital' thing does NOTHING to protect FreeBSD Base System. I literally just wiped one of my Jails because of this 'vital' protection. That 'vital' thing is useless in current state after issuing this command: # pkg delete -af Log below. Unbootable and unusable FreeBSD left after the command that only removed pa= ckages without PKGBASE and with PKGBASE you are left with dust. Even /rescue is gone. root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg info FreeBSD-acct-14.1p1 System Accounting Utilities FreeBSD-acct-man-14.1 System Accounting Utilities (Manual Pages) FreeBSD-acpi-14.1 ACPI Utilities (...) FreeBSD-zfs-dev-14.1p1 ZFS Libraries and Utilities (Development Fil= es) FreeBSD-zfs-man-14.1 ZFS Libraries and Utilities (Manual Pages) FreeBSD-zoneinfo-14.1p7 zoneinfo package beadm-1.3.5_1 Solaris-like utility to manage Boot Environm= ents on ZFS pkg-2.2.1 Package manager root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg delete -af Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) Deinstallation has been requested for the following 271 packages (of 0 pack= ages in the universe): Installed packages to be REMOVED: FreeBSD-acct: 14.1p1 FreeBSD-acct-man: 14.1 FreeBSD-acpi: 14.1 (...) [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [268/271] Deleting files for FreeBSD-zfs-man-14.1:= 100% [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [269/271] Deinstalling FreeBSD-zoneinfo-14.1p7... [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [269/271] Deleting files for FreeBSD-zoneinfo-14.1= p7: 100% [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [270/271] Deinstalling beadm-1.3.5_1... [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [270/271] Deleting files for beadm-1.3.5_1: 100% [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [271/271] Deinstalling pkg-2.2.1... [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [271/271] Deleting files for pkg-2.2.1: 100% pkg: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory You may need to manually remove /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf if it is no longer = needed. root@bsdinstalljail:/ # ls /bin/sh: ls: not found root@bsdinstalljail:/ # vi /bin/sh: vi: not found root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg /bin/sh: pkg: not found root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg-static /bin/sh: pkg-static: not found root@bsdinstalljail:/ # reboot /bin/sh: reboot: not found root@bsdinstalljail:/ # goodbye /bin/sh: goodbye: not found root@bsdinstalljail:/ # /rescue/ls /rescue /bin/sh: /rescue/ls: not found root@bsdinstalljail:/ # /rescue/ls.pkgsave /rescue rescue: ls.pkgsave not compiled in usage: rescue ..., where is one of: cat chflags chio chmod cp date dd df echo ed red expr getfacl hostname ken= v kill ln link ls mkdir mv pkill pgrep ps pwd realpath rm unlink rmdir setfa= cl sh -sh sleep stty sync test [ csh -csh tcsh -tcsh camcontrol clri devfs dm= esg dump rdump dumpfs dumpon fsck fsck_ffs fsck_4.2bsd fsck_ufs fsck_msdosfs f= sdb fsirand gbde geom glabel gpart ifconfig init kldconfig kldload kldstat kldunload ldconfig md5 mdconfig mdmfs mknod mount mount_cd9660 mount_msdos= fs mount_nfs mount_nullfs mount_udf mount_unionfs newfs newfs_msdos nos-tun reboot fastboot halt fasthalt restore rrestore rcorder route savecore shut= down poweroff swapon sysctl tunefs umount ccdconfig ping ping6 rtsol ipf routed rtquery bectl zfs zpool bsdlabel disklabel fdisk dhclient head mt sed tail= tee gzip gunzip gzcat zcat bzip2 bunzip2 bzcat less more xz unxz lzma unlzma x= zcat lzcat zstd unzstd zstdcat zstdmt fetch tar nc vi ex id groups whoami iscsi= ctl zdb chroot chown chgrp iscsid rescue Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-08 10:31 Nadawca: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" <des@FreeBSD.org> Adresat: sthaug@nethelp.no;=20 DW: freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org;=20 >=20 >> sthaug@nethelp.no writes: >> - It's important to have a clean separation between the base system >> (whether that is installed using the package system or not) and the >> rest. An easy way to list "these are the base system packages" is >> absolutely needed. >=20 > You can easily create an alias for this: >=20 > pkg query -e '%o =3D base' %n >=20 > If you want something closer to `pkg info`, try: >=20 > pkg query -e '%o =3D base' '%n-%v %c' | column -tl 2 >=20 >> - Maybe there should be an extra step if you try to delete packages >> from the base system? >=20 > There already is: >=20 > % sudo pkg delete FreeBSD-clibs > Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) > The following package(s) are locked or vital and may not be removed: > =20 > FreeBSD-clibs > =20 > 1 packages requested for removal: 1 locked, 0 missing >=20 > The only matter that remains to be settled is which packages should be > marked vital: >=20 > % pkg query -e '%V =3D 1' %n > FreeBSD-clibs > FreeBSD-runtime >=20 > DES > --=20 > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Aug 8 15:06:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz6nZ0DF8z641XG; 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micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------NP0wy94pfYQk2Oi1l0xreIpl" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------NP0wy94pfYQk2Oi1l0xreIpl Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------kYp9CgOLynOW3TfT2hDV033u"; protected-headers="v1" From: DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator To: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: --------------kYp9CgOLynOW3TfT2hDV033u Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------X0LBS8W6e7tF2Wqc5if5U79S" --------------X0LBS8W6e7tF2Wqc5if5U79S Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gOC84LzIwMjUgNTowMCBQTSwgRGltaXRyeSBBbmRyaWMgd3JvdGU6DQo+IEknbSBvbmUg b2YgdGhlIHBlb3BsZSB0aGF0IHJlZ3VsYXJseSBydW5zIGBwa2cgZGVsZXRlIC1hZmAsIGV2 ZW4gd2l0aCBgLXlgIGFkZGVkLiA6KSAgVGhhdCBzYWlkLCBJIG9ubHkgdXNlIHRoaXMgd2hl biBJIGhhdmUgY29tcGxldGVseSByZWJ1aWx0IGEgcG9ydHMgY29sbGVjdGlvbiB3aXRoIHBv dWRyaWVyZSBhZ2FpbnN0IGEgbmV3ZXIgYmFzZSBqYWlsLCBhbmQgdGhlbiBJJ2QgbGlrZSB0 byBzdGFydCBjb21wbGV0ZWx5IGZyb20gc2NyYXRjaCB3aXRoIGZyZXNobHkgaW5zdGFsbGVk IHBhY2thZ2VzLiBUaGlzIGFsc28gY2xlYXJzIG91dCBhbnkgdW5uZWNlc3Nhcnkgbm9uLWxl YWYgcGFja2FnZXMgdGhlcmUgd2VyZSBwdWxsZWQgaW4gYnkgYSBwcmV2aW91cyBwYWNrYWdl IGJ1aWxkLg0KPg0KPiBPYnZpb3VzbHkgdGhhdCBpcyBhbiBvdXRsaWVyIHNjZW5hcmlvIQ0K DQoNCk5vLCBpdCBpc24ndCwgSSBkbyB0aGUgc2FtZSB0aGluZ3Mgd2l0aCBQb3VkcmllcmUu DQoNCkFuZCBldmVyeSBzbyBvZnRlbiwgd2hlbiB0aGVyZSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gYSBsb3Qgb2Yg ZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnRzIA0KKGFkZGl0aW9ucy9kZWxldGlvbnMgb2YgcGFja2FnZXMsIHRyeS1v dXRzLCBldGMuKSBvbiBhIHNlcnZlciwgdGhpbmdzIA0KY2FuIGdldCBhIGJpdCBtdWRkeS4N Cg0KRGVpbnN0YWxsaW5nIGFsbCBwb3J0cyBhbmQgaW5zdGFsbGluZyBvbmx5IHRoZSBvbmVz IHlvdSBhY3R1YWxseSBuZWVkIA0KZnJvbSB0aGVuIG9uIGlzIGEgKC9zbyBmYXIvKSB0cnVz dGVkIHNvbHV0aW9uIGZvciBob3VzZWtlZXBpbmcuDQoNCg== --------------X0LBS8W6e7tF2Wqc5if5U79S Content-Type: text/html; 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On 8/8/2025 5:00 PM, Dimitry Andric wrote: 
I'm one of the people that regularly runs `pkg delete -af`, even with `-y=
` added. :)  That said, I only use this when I have completely rebuilt a =
ports collection with poudriere against a newer base jail, and then I'd l=
ike to start completely from scratch with freshly installed packages. Thi=
s also clears out any unnecessary non-leaf packages there were pulled in =
by a previous package build.

Obviously that is an outlier scenario!


No, it isn't, I do the same things with Poudriere.=C2=A0

And every so often, when there have been a lot of developments (additions/deletions of packages, try-outs, etc.) on a server, things can get a bit muddy.=C2=A0

Deinstalling all ports and installing only the ones you actually need from then on is a (so far) trusted solution for housekeeping.

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Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:15:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (host86-143-41-189.range86-143.btcentralplus.com [86.143.41.189]) by smtp.theravensnest.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F0E5BD5; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 16:15:40 +0100 (BST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <81470e1f-5a91-453b-a1aa-20a7e9fb8855@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 16:15:29 +0100 Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD CURRENT , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <33CC4995-5B1D-4640-A5B0-2E7AD599D5BA@FreeBSD.org> References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> <81470e1f-5a91-453b-a1aa-20a7e9fb8855@FreeBSD.org> To: DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) On 8 Aug 2025, at 15:59, DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator = wrote: >=20 > On 8/8/2025 4:20 PM, David Chisnall wrote: >> Every upgrade flow I have on every FreeBSD machine I use is = simplified by pkgbase. Having fewer tools is a usability win. Having a = single command upgrade everything is a usability win. If you*want to* = upgrade only some things, that=E2=80=99s one extra command-line flag. > Just to clarify things from an inverse perspective: in a pkgbase = scenario, how would one go about deleting all ports, and only ports? = What would the new pkg command be? It should be `pkg del -r {repo name}`. It is not, currently, because (unlike the install commands), `pkg = delete` does not accept the `-r` flag (presumably because the only place = where it makes sense is in concert with the `-a` flag and no one thought = of that use case). I think that=E2=80=99s a bug, it should probably be fixed. And now we = have a meaningful and actionable requirement. I have filed this issue: https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2494 David= From nobody Fri Aug 8 15:23:41 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz78v3687z643K6; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:23:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from DutchDaemon@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz78v07Xwz3VVm; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:23:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from DutchDaemon@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754666623; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; 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protected-headers="v1" From: DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator To: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> <81470e1f-5a91-453b-a1aa-20a7e9fb8855@FreeBSD.org> <33CC4995-5B1D-4640-A5B0-2E7AD599D5BA@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <33CC4995-5B1D-4640-A5B0-2E7AD599D5BA@FreeBSD.org> --------------QJnsG2iUv6758t2grMnFXSSx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gOC84LzIwMjUgNToxNSBQTSwgRGF2aWQgQ2hpc25hbGwgd3JvdGU6DQo+IE9uIDggQXVn IDIwMjUsIGF0IDE1OjU5LCBEdXRjaERhZW1vbiAtIEZyZWVCU0QgRm9ydW1zIEFkbWluaXN0 cmF0b3IgPER1dGNoRGFlbW9uQEZyZWVCU0Qub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gSnVzdCB0byBjbGFy aWZ5IHRoaW5ncyBmcm9tIGFuIGludmVyc2UgcGVyc3BlY3RpdmU6IGluIGEgcGtnYmFzZSBz Y2VuYXJpbywgaG93IHdvdWxkIG9uZSBnbyBhYm91dCBkZWxldGluZyBhbGwgcG9ydHMsIGFu ZCBvbmx5IHBvcnRzPyBXaGF0IHdvdWxkIHRoZSBuZXcgcGtnIGNvbW1hbmQgYmU/DQoNCj4g SXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGBwa2cgZGVsIC1yIHtyZXBvIG5hbWV9YC4NCj4NCj4gSXQgaXMgbm90 LCBjdXJyZW50bHksIGJlY2F1c2UgKHVubGlrZSB0aGUgaW5zdGFsbCBjb21tYW5kcyksIGBw a2cgZGVsZXRlYCBkb2VzIG5vdCBhY2NlcHQgdGhlIGAtcmAgZmxhZyAocHJlc3VtYWJseSBi ZWNhdXNlIHRoZSBvbmx5IHBsYWNlIHdoZXJlIGl0IG1ha2VzIHNlbnNlIGlzIGluIGNvbmNl cnQgd2l0aCB0aGUgYC1hYCBmbGFnIGFuZCBubyBvbmUgdGhvdWdodCBvZiB0aGF0IHVzZSBj YXNlKS4NCj4NCj4gSSB0aGluayB0aGF04oCZcyBhIGJ1ZywgaXQgc2hvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5 IGJlIGZpeGVkLiAgQW5kIG5vdyB3ZSBoYXZlIGEgbWVhbmluZ2Z1bCBhbmQgYWN0aW9uYWJs ZSByZXF1aXJlbWVudC4gIEkgaGF2ZSBmaWxlZCB0aGlzIGlzc3VlOg0KPg0KPiBodHRwczov L2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vZnJlZWJzZC9wa2cvaXNzdWVzLzI0OTQNCj4NCk9oLCBsZWF2ZSBpdCB0 byBtZSB0byBzdHVtYmxlIG92ZXIgdGhlIGJ1ZyA7KSBUaGFua3MuDQoNCklmIHRoaXMgaXMg aW5kZWVkIGEgbWF0dGVyIG9mIHRyYWluaW5nIG11c2NsZSBtZW1vcnkgdG8gdW5sZWFybiBg cGtnIA0KZGVsZXRlIC1meWAgYW5kIHN3aXRjaCB0byBgcGtnIGRlbCAtciByZXBvYCwgdGhl IHRyYW5zaXRpb24gc2hvdWxkIG5vdCANCmJlIHRvbyBwYWluZnVsLg0KDQoodHJ5aW5nIHRv IHNlZSB0aGUgdXBzaWRlKQ0KDQo= --------------QJnsG2iUv6758t2grMnFXSSx-- --------------3i7a6LoVu0OMH3Ud9nNC8eFt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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Fri, 8 Aug 2025 11:25:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip Paeps To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: New pkgbase packages on all mirrors Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 23:25:46 +0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0r6272) Message-ID: <988B8A76-7A57-45EA-A576-971FB9A9937F@freebsd.org> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Today's pkgbase builds are now on all the mirrors. A note: the cleanworld bit was set for all branches. You'll get new packages if you're using pkgbase on stable/14, releng/14.2 or releng/14.3 as well as main. Sorry for the noise today and the fortnight or so without builds. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e42cba71a875ca40c65fa54e3657ff3a; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:58:12 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages: a question [Trying to avoid being part of other somewhat-related discussions] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 08:58:02 -0700 Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-pkg@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> To: =?utf-8?Q?Jes=C3=BAs_Daniel_Colmenares_Oviedo?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.66.146:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.66.146:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bz7wv3tS0z3cJY X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Aug 6, 2025, at 22:44, Jes=C3=BAs Daniel Colmenares Oviedo = wrote: > Perhaps something like this (with a few additions): >=20 > ``` > pkg query %n | grep -vEe '^(FreeBSD-.+)' | xargs pkg remove -n && pkg = autoremove -n && pkg clean -n > ``` "pkg delete -a" (no -f) is documented to exclude deletion of pkg itself. So, may be: pkg query %n | grep -v -Ee '^(FreeBSD-.+)' -Ee '^(pkg)' | xargs pkg = remove -n && pkg autoremove -n && pkg clean -n Also: I'm not sure that pkg clean -n is appropriate for main or stable/* where the upstream updates can happen multiple times per day and could easily lead to removals from /var/cache/pkg/ between deliberate pkgbase updates. WARNING: Last I tried, "pkg delete -a" in a pkgbase context left pkg present --but broken!-- by deleting system things pkg and pkg-static needed to be operational. pkg-static tries to run other programs --and so is not fully self contained to be fully operational, despite its static build. I've not analyzed the transitive closure of the indirect usage. As for /usr/local/sbin/pkg : a lot has to be in place just for t he libraries to load (the below example is based on what I happen to be currently running, a main [os: 15] context): In short form . . . # ldd /usr/local/sbin/pkg /usr/local/sbin/pkg: libelf.so.2 =3D> /lib/libelf.so.2 (0x6b7b34403000) libjail.so.1 =3D> /lib/libjail.so.1 (0x6b7b34881000) libm.so.5 =3D> /lib/libm.so.5 (0x6b7b3d540000) libarchive.so.7 =3D> /usr/lib/libarchive.so.7 (0x6b7b45240000) libz.so.6 =3D> /lib/libz.so.6 (0x6b7b34f22000) libutil.so.9 =3D> /lib/libutil.so.9 (0x6b7b35e79000) libssl.so.30 =3D> /usr/lib/libssl.so.30 (0x6b7b4cc60000) libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x6b7b36200000) libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x6b7b37092000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x6b7b37600000) libbz2.so.4 =3D> /usr/lib/libbz2.so.4 (0x6b7b37b2b000) liblzma.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/liblzma.so.5 (0x6b7b58660000) libbsdxml.so.4 =3D> /lib/libbsdxml.so.4 (0x6b7b3856c000) libprivatezstd.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivatezstd.so.5 = (0x6b7b64080000) libsys.so.7 =3D> /lib/libsys.so.7 (0x6b7b6d8b0000) libmd.so.7 =3D> /lib/libmd.so.7 (0x6b7b3940b000) libelf.so.2 and libjail.so.1 are unique compared to /usr/sbin/pkg . (See below.) Even /usr/sbin/pkg needs a lot of libraries to be loaded in order to operate: In short form . . . # ldd /usr/sbin/pkg /usr/sbin/pkg: libarchive.so.7 =3D> /usr/lib/libarchive.so.7 (0x650fcbbe0000) libfetch.so.6 =3D> /usr/lib/libfetch.so.6 (0x650fbaffd000) libprivateucl.so.1 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivateucl.so.1 = (0x650fbb7c1000) libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x650fbba00000) libssl.so.30 =3D> /usr/lib/libssl.so.30 (0x650fd36f0000) libutil.so.9 =3D> /lib/libutil.so.9 (0x650fbc29e000) libmd.so.7 =3D> /lib/libmd.so.7 (0x650fb9bf2000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x650fbe000000) libz.so.6 =3D> /lib/libz.so.6 (0x650fbc96c000) libbz2.so.4 =3D> /usr/lib/libbz2.so.4 (0x650fbab03000) liblzma.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/liblzma.so.5 (0x650fe1cf0000) libbsdxml.so.4 =3D> /lib/libbsdxml.so.4 (0x650fbe53d000) libprivatezstd.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivatezstd.so.5 = (0x650fe6f60000) libm.so.5 =3D> /lib/libm.so.5 (0x650fea7b0000) libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x650fbdb6a000) libsys.so.7 =3D> /lib/libsys.so.7 (0x650ff7d40000) libfetch.so.6 and libprivateucl.so.1 are unique compared to /usr/local/sbin/pkg . (See earlier.) In long form, tracing dependencies, those are: # ldd -a /usr/local/sbin/pkg /usr/local/sbin/pkg: libelf.so.2 =3D> /lib/libelf.so.2 (0x675c6aa14000) libjail.so.1 =3D> /lib/libjail.so.1 (0x675c6b4da000) libm.so.5 =3D> /lib/libm.so.5 (0x675c6c480000) libarchive.so.7 =3D> /usr/lib/libarchive.so.7 (0x675c702b0000) libz.so.6 =3D> /lib/libz.so.6 (0x675c6c62d000) libutil.so.9 =3D> /lib/libutil.so.9 (0x675c6c93b000) libssl.so.30 =3D> /usr/lib/libssl.so.30 (0x675c7ed40000) libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x675c6d400000) libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x675c6e7f5000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libelf.so.2: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libjail.so.1: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libm.so.5: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /usr/lib/libarchive.so.7: libz.so.6 =3D> /lib/libz.so.6 (0x675c6c62d000) libbz2.so.4 =3D> /usr/lib/libbz2.so.4 (0x675c6f34c000) liblzma.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/liblzma.so.5 (0x675c7f1d0000) libbsdxml.so.4 =3D> /lib/libbsdxml.so.4 (0x675c71aaa000) libprivatezstd.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivatezstd.so.5 = (0x675c8e1b0000) libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x675c6d400000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libz.so.6: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libutil.so.9: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /usr/lib/libssl.so.30: libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x675c6d400000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libcrypto.so.30: libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x675c6e7f5000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libthr.so.3: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) libsys.so.7 =3D> /lib/libsys.so.7 (0x675c98c80000) /lib/libc.so.7: libsys.so.7 =3D> /lib/libsys.so.7 (0x675c98c80000) /usr/lib/libbz2.so.4: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /usr/lib/liblzma.so.5: libmd.so.7 =3D> /lib/libmd.so.7 (0x675c72717000) libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x675c6e7f5000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libbsdxml.so.4: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /usr/lib/libprivatezstd.so.5: libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x675c6e7f5000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) /lib/libmd.so.7: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x675c71200000) # ldd -a /usr/sbin/pkg /usr/sbin/pkg: libarchive.so.7 =3D> /usr/lib/libarchive.so.7 (0x7e8bfc380000) libfetch.so.6 =3D> /usr/lib/libfetch.so.6 (0x7e8bf18e2000) libprivateucl.so.1 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivateucl.so.1 = (0x7e8bf1d74000) libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x7e8bf5600000) libssl.so.30 =3D> /usr/lib/libssl.so.30 (0x7e8c09220000) libutil.so.9 =3D> /lib/libutil.so.9 (0x7e8bf2282000) libmd.so.7 =3D> /lib/libmd.so.7 (0x7e8bf31d1000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /usr/lib/libarchive.so.7: libz.so.6 =3D> /lib/libz.so.6 (0x7e8bf4e96000) libbz2.so.4 =3D> /usr/lib/libbz2.so.4 (0x7e8bf696f000) liblzma.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/liblzma.so.5 (0x7e8c0b8a0000) libbsdxml.so.4 =3D> /lib/libbsdxml.so.4 (0x7e8bf6c0b000) libprivatezstd.so.5 =3D> /usr/lib/libprivatezstd.so.5 = (0x7e8c0c790000) libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x7e8bf5600000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /usr/lib/libfetch.so.6: libssl.so.30 =3D> /usr/lib/libssl.so.30 (0x7e8c09220000) libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x7e8bf5600000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /usr/lib/libprivateucl.so.1: libm.so.5 =3D> /lib/libm.so.5 (0x7e8c19580000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /lib/libcrypto.so.30: libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x7e8bf7348000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /usr/lib/libssl.so.30: libcrypto.so.30 =3D> /lib/libcrypto.so.30 (0x7e8bf5600000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /lib/libutil.so.9: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /lib/libmd.so.7: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /lib/libc.so.7: libsys.so.7 =3D> /lib/libsys.so.7 (0x7e8c25550000) /lib/libz.so.6: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /usr/lib/libbz2.so.4: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /usr/lib/liblzma.so.5: libmd.so.7 =3D> /lib/libmd.so.7 (0x7e8bf31d1000) libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x7e8bf7348000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /lib/libbsdxml.so.4: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /usr/lib/libprivatezstd.so.5: libthr.so.3 =3D> /lib/libthr.so.3 (0x7e8bf7348000) libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /lib/libm.so.5: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) /lib/libthr.so.3: libc.so.7 =3D> /lib/libc.so.7 (0x7e8bf6400000) libsys.so.7 =3D> /lib/libsys.so.7 (0x7e8c25550000) > On 8/6/25 23:42, Mark Millard wrote: >> Is there a known alternative to the command: >>=20 >> chroot /FBSDFSSDroot-mnt/ pkg-static delete -a >>=20 >> that would only delete port-packages, even if the >> chroot's world was based on a pkgbase world >> installation? >>=20 >> If yes, what would the command be like? >=20 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Fri Aug 8 16:29:25 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bz8ck06dvz648HH for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 16:29:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bz8cj6PTDz3mx1; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 16:29:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754670565; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tw2Cl4g2hlB44H2799Vn9/roSGsraRXcSVHe7ReBDA0=; b=onCXYjkJtQS5OSG7uTxJYETNipYIRpBOM0zeRgodXetrwGxh1E/s68kJ9pnkRWEH3JxDvg pypPY1tWXuYuEVYeuy9UfDWbwGgxZrhQ5unT0BVMHBbvDZnuRhphSvnHnZaJlcL2ZOc7vV UF+/sbHlMKkB7V4DaFOJ12yi7G34K7iTXuTR0LO3oOXVMI4h7YMdoevFAROd8WRNHae/1W yeg+MMSVdva/1iz2wA47zBbhGpxais0CWZRmgjpPpqZyFxMpHoTHCn+IpqACoQUPzBNyDU HcjRd+dufgAONd60BEqg6UyTWCkNZrMEa/3hKnMlviyyA5ffglzKR6dH3UiBtg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754670565; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tw2Cl4g2hlB44H2799Vn9/roSGsraRXcSVHe7ReBDA0=; b=wXy7r1k+lOV6gfZDwQpOs08CCdlWlxHp5Iqn9KRM7cLCuMM11qihPODZh880Hh4tFWbBUg W1+2s+/p+mR/a+KstlVstK+Bi3+pFK4N2p7rDC/2x7gaWEG+PjhiHWG32qoInO8x5UcibL 0yPMKOyobO6zJ+mGA2VxoBQBhdvN1AiEmxeVYOcA+LkJDI2xzhR0elQmDRmXkN8OKB7ofG X2W7u/wdCeloCp9IQ6hlNc7WHq+jER/b6m7/xapIe3g7w3QQBKRj/qGru1jmtmRITWJUij 7/2vd6/97AwsjUTr/8f2SCbkgGuLtPgpJmGBpWjZsOOnoyIvp9MruA6H1W6fXw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754670565; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=CKNXL7pBWPzgmrzDZvp+dFSitW7l2ycLlrZkR3M1BTpbvZ/8eeBQJ0SRGo1AFoOp2jc5lj tLFV3QcSTMh4digg59vdTZjTBzoLpuf9WvztUk+Ll1Y5THyEy83G5mTsVGJ76OfOWelVN/ ZKa5NOohHPF54grf/atJq/fT1rZcqUVp+KKa1tWwfxI6SQP+pHt2nP3csNs8gJYneF3Flz UTrdT7BSr+E4sOgDIFJRT2y2W31a3oEkyfwLNaQwmKLA40wON9Ay2Wt2RTK+8kABrXVrsY iHFg0MAPoj7u2/e4dZmotQyRjC+LG/1tmhEN3Q/gGdUivwfsUe9y9dHG2zTtzw== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1532) id CCCDB19F6C; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 16:29:25 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 17:29:25 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Philip Paeps Cc: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: Re: pkgbase is NOT broken because of Kerberos (was: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Philip Paeps , Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pgTa4RA/5iIriBK3" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --pgTa4RA/5iIriBK3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Philip Paeps: > Unfortunately though ... >=20 > > philip@costaud1.chi:~ % su > > Segmentation fault this should be fixed by https://reviews.freebsd.org/D51829. (thanks to Philip for very helpful interactive debugging via IRC :-) --pgTa4RA/5iIriBK3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaJYl4QAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YL4AAP43/dvZS0H5BXNJtib6E9lFbwDwvVhKhzlre9FPUf08IQD/RxJoft6dokyL fa5iaoJ4Im+UqM8PdU22rVRZk7GQ1wk= =0HyE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pgTa4RA/5iIriBK3-- From nobody Fri Aug 8 17:34:27 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzB3n0ZZlz64GLY; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:34:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzB3m6ML2z4Dd6; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:34:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754674468; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=8u0+aHQWOBL0jP4CbvJhBsiJqbyG6wf1z1iPvtRQ9P4=; b=bakj0A9f7F/32KZ6KiIhMR4alTDn0ZFKTWgFJjyLrEEZ1yS7JWBUhmG3skDFU8g7WmBcIp eZyPPkok5zK8/pmE1szwoMJVCyXQGKPGTEItA3LZUNtMmiQGUUOafOwOOhqwZ5/slEzC4B UH+oZSwtoX3AWVoOBenrjmkLCNB3ds7xYMk3fsR+9gAiCpu6RKOTuTqlvvNMRPgL17vhn8 pHZ4TwVZC9ol7HeWEBQAGy93aY2AeilDFDHdQ1lDy9hO6ZCJt87ryR9VcNi2dgrUGBkMib UwvDlld+IQtMd2CU8iDpo7xganCrOe/QUzi7BgVRk6ec6qUjrn8nJMW5czpgvQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754674468; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=8u0+aHQWOBL0jP4CbvJhBsiJqbyG6wf1z1iPvtRQ9P4=; b=IjQMAxX0VhKAdjEQltJaAafOUbzrjkUg+Y8Fhrm2pZcIAOXjduRl1+Z7OfLWeZtzEqkWSV T2GoVeMtf6LGMxPdnCrEmH7ramoUvoMmbLODbeAEdFXzv7oOeUTQ8kBhZgeR8y0mZCHSQv u1F78dyQwd5xFTaxo0n/Ywyew9WPO6XNWa7OAuIJgVbQ4UhTt8F32tgIeL5crn11xwAnrB rAI2dHu8SBb/XqTOu1s0mmgwVRjT26WOJzBBzXfHgzM+wDUWQT+IAV+Dnb0+vgE5ZAw3dB 61NBPdW1xROYFDKeUvaK7BVkYS483hT/JP6mgCHxUg4JzHkCsLmU4suoKJmUSw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754674468; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=TTOAjr8powzM8gVZHJcXeLR8iqkb3oJefpnipfSV6zRkUdWAXj0YHm6BeK2WrDLy0awWIB 9CmttN0ZPS2xM62Yymuq7SriV+eKF17f9wUuLetVqANcxOVHKgEJfm23HR+yLvStVbrZoy HMct5sbvWMy6NFDVSyOCQ2AVyDM5mowr30dqTE0wvQSvhsMG5hy/8401Aa61a5ERF7mZgT ETAEFJN5AOqiD9GmaZ9WvwyvSu6pI0TdZT2FMc1/GEOLBqDwIA0jAtbYsDn/8rYjlYE/kF Q0RabaFW7EQb9yRcu70ofUZpBmXJwKqK9Sk3FuWkCHZ6L+CqjWqQ/ekQ8NywJg== Received: from ltc.des.dev (88-177-82-251.subs.proxad.net [88.177.82.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bzB3m4wSWzM6x; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:34:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7E2DC12A29; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 19:34:27 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Mark Millard Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Jes=C3=BAs?= Daniel Colmenares Oviedo , FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-pkg@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deletion of just installed port-packages: a question [Trying to avoid being part of other somewhat-related discussions] In-Reply-To: (Mark Millard's message of "Fri, 8 Aug 2025 08:58:02 -0700") References: <7d8a6b67-700c-47ac-8484-d6a45961a9c4@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 19:34:27 +0200 Message-ID: <861ppl3efw.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark Millard writes: > Also: I'm not sure that pkg clean -n is appropriate for main or > stable/* where the upstream updates can happen multiple times per day > and could easily lead to removals from /var/cache/pkg/ between > deliberate pkgbase updates. imo `pkg clean` without -f (which it currently doesn't have) should not remove a cached file, even if out of date, if it corresponds to the version that's currently installed. That's not currently the case, but it should be relatively easy to implement. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Fri Aug 8 17:44:53 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzBHq3Hxkz64H8X; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzBHq2dwvz4FRk; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754675095; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DWAMKN0yZ8q/Lx/agmbhuEy71TCf5xFD3hau18/E2mU=; b=oTS794uIGNAkk0cdkVfG3XkGhdFlXbHC+Iteyr7KhrAKqHaU2tKE6WHO86jAbuzqdJWecn uEGvCcYmJBpK/WLI4yvWedizHjKWooyFO3x9bmQbYKfZUkJFze1CQ2AwAiYoVWDppeqbYT HseKuPa/coMMBdJIcVxExMzGQ9e1vADXClTEiUiwbW9ZG/ip+0rSYluI9Rmdq/HW2bLV33 9bolsJOcbHH6uaoEakIngPoT0g0A5h1niSXQ8PEp8ocygnYpdv580Q63Hpm+VVzwxzM2JV NuMyj2uLbIYdQ30Ps8F/JAaOHn5nwbNjoUWgIIGomXyqKQVHOW1Q71FU0ow1RA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754675095; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DWAMKN0yZ8q/Lx/agmbhuEy71TCf5xFD3hau18/E2mU=; b=F6KqQv5gQGc9yb2ouABmMpqi9wp4aHvmxc6VWMiEiFJTQlF+adY4kvEDI37oxVxEQbj+rT SjXm+KNVZbM3ANoS0Q2kI2oQRokM+0UTvO0rcDP0Xa4BrkO+Q56n+/WEID+67YlEgVeE4I JYLSzSBe8sL9wYiZayFFfRxvgstzRsIDOyzwMnoAYCC5d+ZR/bsy36kHENHMyCbjQ4nG6M 8a+1kZEVU8SYTpt6E7bhziv5e5Nv1RppO+34ILSEN91ll8gJoy7+LZ6XL547mKkRZI0wpx qdU2zDUYnOUeMNjluNqqQ759YxJTZB7v9zq40EcV2gVcitkJUVaMg6KHTKVtZA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754675095; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=gOJ3g0rtoHgtaUnhgWCg5jNZTVoGOMlTyvXyeJJe4Pb8xZcrj5epmdRGqkStUq32mGWvuW bzeWmNgXyrGr2LEp0rBZ+r8lvq0+b/ZPlM2oF9s17TXMNINP9C7tUTskXd2uNDY2elEYbV YmTv6+dmzDAIKN021KKqNrxWKqGEl6CVOwh6VgY29m2ckgdGPtKaxPdWZnjZeW7GZkPzY6 eUioRK12SRk9kmNf7l1dFJjK3ijPrik7zqczGCuxq6m2T0wRG2GrIA9vLg83QncWchiF8b CPm6Tqa4Z+zYFwyd/P/io3rIYyJzyLQMLfJpxEEeOdm4GObZDRraQ8+YHXqjEA== Received: from ltc.des.dev (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:c54:bed0:922e:16ff:fef1:acef]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bzBHq1BfMzNqg; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4731C12DAB; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 19:44:53 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: vermaden Cc: "sthaug@nethelp.no" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature In-Reply-To: (vermaden@interia.pl's message of "Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:03:41 +0200") References: <20250808.091053.1322595805169591390.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 19:44:53 +0200 Message-ID: <86wm7d1ze2.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable vermaden writes: > Current 'vital' thing does NOTHING to protect FreeBSD Base System. How much longer will it take you to learn that people stop taking you seriously when you scream at them? DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Fri Aug 8 17:57:43 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzBZk2qsrz64Hvn; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:57:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzBZk0HgKz4KmM; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:57:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 19:57:43 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: "sthaug@nethelp.no" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <86wm7d1ze2.fsf@ltc.des.dev> References: <20250808.091053.1322595805169591390.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86wm7d1ze2.fsf@ltc.des.dev> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754675867; bh=OzSXvOvQBpW78jWAbLIHcPgJGdmWh1uABnpyVh9lfZI=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=AfBihw/Af3ZCOc9uqpnF01+FiEcVKdfjMx6qmbR+Az10Z0fdDd0jfTgPjA7Lkd3U2 DCQsCw3FZKGV5wEQBwDbc6d8Sq1hDfQTUWcZwzBqU0O3ZaLKugaimn30Fx4yrqY/9Q /wej5sUhFPMegTYTv9aQSLHh/9lQX4yjWWh4/3ow= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzBZk0HgKz4KmM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Its not screaming its underlining important problem ... Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-08 19:48 Nadawca: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" <des@FreeBSD.org> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 DW: "sthaug@nethelp.no" <sthaug@nethelp.no>; "freebsd-current@freebsd.or= g" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>; "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" <freeb= sd-stable@freebsd.org>; freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org;=20 >=20 > > vermaden writes: >> Current 'vital' thing does NOTHING to protect FreeBSD Base System. >=20 > How much longer will it take you to learn that people stop taking you > seriously when you scream at them? >=20 > DES > --=20 > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Fri Aug 8 19:36:49 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzDn548G0z64RhD; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 19:36:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marquis@roble.com) Received: from mx5.roble.com (mx5.roble.com [209.237.23.5]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx5.roble.com", Issuer "mx5.roble.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzDn462Nmz3M08; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 19:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marquis@roble.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=roble.com header.s=rs060402 header.b=W5+jfHhR; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marquis@roble.com designates 209.237.23.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marquis@roble.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=roble.com Received: from roble.com (roble.com [209.237.23.50]) by mx5.roble.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3397D412A6; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 12:36:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=roble.com; s=rs060402; t=1754681809; bh=pFJrN2zYY2RgS4ROln5JeV94BQke3SaMc1hgqfyozP0=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=W5+jfHhR5sYkew9H+rbmfrYf+eXFzw8D2mV+r5AKIZFh6D2TrC4NYDOPjGOaLjB9v GDEcIoAlU3XeZcYy9zYNiQFbkCRiI2uQEmDY+kH9ZczeDpXpn9jTanuAGjPA1hoKEV V0SLVXGY9R2f46Wns/ygV4cGeh/s7KB7/G6K9bLs= Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 12:36:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Roger Marquis To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature In-Reply-To: <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.78 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[roble.com,none]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[roble.com:s=rs060402]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.237.23.0/24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[roble.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:17403, ipnet:209.237.0.0/18, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzDn462Nmz3M08 X-Spamd-Bar: --- David Chisnall wrote: > Let?s remember the thing that started this entire thread: `pkg delete -af` > This is an *incredibly* stupid thing to do. Long before pkg came along, While there are some scenarios where 'delete -af' can be useful, anyone using these flags should at least know their implications. As a rational for separate pkgbase commands, OTOH, this really seems like a straw man. Dimitry Andric wrote: >I'm one of the people that regularly runs `pkg delete -af`, even with >`-y` added. :) That said, I only use this when I have co mpletely >rebuilt a ports collection with poudriere against a newer base jail, and >then I'd like to start completely from scratc h with freshly installed >packages. This also clears out any unnecessary non-leaf packages there >were pulled in by a previous pa ckage build. > >Obviously that is an outlier scenario! It is now but with the incorporation of base packages and repos it could be much more common. For example, to install a distroless jail. If 'pkg install apache24' would install ONLY necessary package from ports AND base the disk utilization and maintenance overhead would be a fraction of what it is currently. This would bring FreeBSD at least close to the functionality of Linux containers and kubernetes. Tomek CEDRO wrote: > I can see that "base" will not be coherent for everyone anymore. If > ports start depending on base packages then circular dependencies will > arise and this will be a Linux-like-mess Except Linux' packaged base isn't a mess, it just works. Thse who are lucky enough to work in FreeBSD-only environments don't seem to realize that FreeBSD's monolithic base is one of the biggest reasons for its dramatic loss of market share over the past few decades. The market has also already spoken on utilities too, and nobody is asking for separate aptbase or yumbase commands. Those who want *base commands can easily script them and 'make package'. The rest of us have been and will continue to be best served by a single 'pkg' command that is demonstrably more future-proof. IMO, Roger Marquis From nobody Fri Aug 8 20:54:58 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzGWH68cwz645qw; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 20:55:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzGWG58Fyz3WwF; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 20:55:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b=Z6rELHuP; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 22:54:58 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Rob Wing , Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: "sthaug@nethelp.no" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: <20250808.091053.1322595805169591390.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86wm7d1ze2.fsf@ltc.des.dev> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754686504; bh=Bl8StcwMhBphcQf/GfB5PqqruwF6RsfuEjup3cxNuFA=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Z6rELHuPf6mDFckbOVi0LWxIDW5AnTwd29kz2pYp7Q5UbWJJlAG8dOc74tM5OBR0j httW4TkCQQTbdqcP1MirTlNlVE1T266s2VvG2wq9tNS3i3cgM12djJMLXhTtYloy9k nJ6NcTHcamcfVr8htqdi8WA/zf7UMD6L9hcLhJZ0= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.10 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[217.74.67.69:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzGWG58Fyz3WwF X-Spamd-Bar: --- Thank You for support Rob. It was definitely not my intention to scream/yell at anyone. I am just sharing my concerns here. I am just a sysadmin - I do not have a commit bit - I am not a FreeBSD deve= loper - I just share what I believe may push FreeBSD into direction to make= it better - because after all these years with various UNIX (AIX/Solaris/H= P-UX) and Linux systems FreeBSD seems to be the best and most sensible over= all option - the "Jack of All Trades" - its the option that sucks the least= . ... and even if all these 'bad' - in my opinion - decisions will take place= - that pkg(8) would be able to destroy FreeBSD Base System - I will still = use FreeBSD - because even if FreeBSD will lose its Base System feature - i= t will still be the best overall option out there if You want a free and op= en UNIX system with all needed features. Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-08 22:38 Nadawca: "Rob Wing" Adresat: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" ;=20 DW: "vermaden" ; "sthaug@nethelp.no" ; "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" ; "freebsd-s= table@freebsd.org" ; "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.o= rg" ;=20 > Dag, >=20 > mind your attitude towards our users/contributors >=20 > vermaden was clearly not yelling so stop trying to discredit them with su= ch accusations. >=20 > On Friday, August 8, 2025, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wro= te: >=20 >> vermaden writes: >> > Current 'vital' thing does NOTHING to protect FreeBSD Base System. >>=20 >> How much longer will it take you to learn that people stop taking you >> seriously when you scream at them? >>=20 >> DES >> --=20 >> Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org From nobody Fri Aug 8 21:02:34 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzGhL0z9qz646Hk; 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Fri, 8 Aug 2025 17:02:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: T83c6f35c7dc1c65a Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:02:34 -0400 From: "Dan Langille" To: "Brandon Allbery" , "Rob Wing" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , vermaden , sthaug , "FreeBSD Current" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <1abb1487-108c-4182-89de-834e93846142@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20250808.091053.1322595805169591390.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86wm7d1ze2.fsf@ltc.des.dev> Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=408730eee14447d7a18ac4351f2eef7d X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.59 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[langille.org,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:202.12.124.128/27]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[langille.org:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[202.12.124.148:from]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[freebsd.org,interia.pl,nethelp.no]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[langille.org:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:202.12.124.0/24, country:AU]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[dan]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzGhK0sCYz3b4S X-Spamd-Bar: -- --408730eee14447d7a18ac4351f2eef7d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, Aug 8, 2025, at 4:38 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote: > Maybe I should clarify that in the old days, all caps *was* considered yelling. Maybe things have changed since then. No, things have not changed. It's still considered yelling. -- Dan Langille dan@langille.org --408730eee14447d7a18ac4351f2eef7d Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Fri, Aug 8, 2025, at 4:38 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:
Maybe I should clarify that in the old days, all caps *was* considered yelling. Maybe things have changed since then.

No, things have not changed. It's still considered yelling.

--
  Dan Langille
  dan@langille.org


--408730eee14447d7a18ac4351f2eef7d-- From nobody Fri Aug 8 21:05:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzGln2fnwz646ls; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 21:05:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzGlm3sGgz3f48; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 21:05:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 23:05:47 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Dan Langille , Brandon Allbery , Rob Wing Cc: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , sthaug , FreeBSD Current , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: <1abb1487-108c-4182-89de-834e93846142@app.fastmail.com> References: <20250808.091053.1322595805169591390.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86wm7d1ze2.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <1abb1487-108c-4182-89de-834e93846142@app.fastmail.com> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-wxq5Omj1WeYRa/BFDnQM" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754687154; bh=yigdTPHNmOBEbgMLfmqihX2EwgTLmJ7RXNXP4dOeFR0=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=pDIWT4ulIyvHhYyZ7Wy7AocekPGf/u2VMMaTOUaUJpb3E3AVZ/2IIgS+51SFORGrW 0mOiz7nrt0zk+dwJBQ5Lwnf4+M1vrmwgG+3EPl/pYvlXCr1O+GCysOFzIuMUajZqVs PAwgwKNJg2o1UrDwkXfJu4NOCNVgPHHZORVYRGLw= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzGlm3sGgz3f48 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] --=-wxq5Omj1WeYRa/BFDnQM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Show me please a way to mark importance of a thing without using ALL CAPS i= n a plain text ...Should I use Markdown like that: *important*Should I use = Markdown like that: _important_Should I use Markdown like that: "important"= Something else instead of so called SCREAMING?Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes Fr= eeBSD Base System FeatureData: 2025-08-08 23:03Nadawca: "Dan Langille" <= dan@langille.org>Adresat: "Brandon Allbery" <allbery.b@gmail.com>;= "Rob Wing" <rob.fx907@gmail.com>; DW: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" <= ;des@freebsd.org>; "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>; "sthaug" <= sthaug@nethelp.no>; "FreeBSD Current" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>= ;; "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; "freebs= d-pkgbase@freebsd.org" <freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org>; On Fri, Aug 8, = 2025, at 4:38 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:Maybe I should clarify that in the = old days, all caps *was* considered yelling. Maybe things have changed sinc= e then.No, things have not changed. It's still considered yelling.--  = Dan Langille  dan@langille.org --=-wxq5Omj1WeYRa/BFDnQM Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Show me please a way to mark importance of a thing without= using ALL CAPS in a plain text ...

Should I use Markdown like that:= *important*
Should I use Markdown like that: _important_
Should I us= e Markdown like that: "important"

Something else instead of so calle= d SCREAMING?





Temat: Re= : PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature
Data: 2025-08-08 23:03
= Nadawca: "Dan Langille" <dan@langille.org>
Adresat: "Brandon Allbe= ry" <allbery.b@gmail.com>; "Rob Wing" <rob.fx907@gmail.com>; DW: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" <des@freebsd.org>; "vermaden" <ve= rmaden@interia.pl>; "sthaug" <sthaug@nethelp.no>; "FreeBSD Current= " <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>; "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" <fre= ebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" <freebsd-pkgb= ase@freebsd.org>;



On Fri, Aug 8, 2025, at 4:38 PM, Brandon Allbery wrote:
Maybe I should clarify that = in the old days, all caps *was* considered yelling. Maybe things have chang= ed since then.

No, things have not ch= anged. It's still considered yelling.

--
=C2=A0 Dan= Langille
=C2=A0 dan@langille.org




--=-wxq5Omj1WeYRa/BFDnQM-- From nobody Fri Aug 8 21:44:21 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzHcS5tBQz64BTK for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 21:44:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com (mail-wm1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzHcS3BqMz3ngt for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 21:44:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ceri@submonkey.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-458bc3ce3beso16130895e9.1 for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:44:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=submonkey-net.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1754689473; x=1755294273; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=OibcBy2DTge2z9LTeqlGvKtygE6VeinxQPQ8qCq1w0w=; b=1WbNISsV2jyRhgVtE0KubzLpAIqg4DUQoRMphA70/mjU61dXofhyBS8G4wyeQYWWu6 yQJ7sav4d3knxdF99tSX8BZ8UaozwqBZsR/LVbIQp1DlUo7FzzmOt/BLtTelpXKmCSqs K1ooGJ/Ik8xwevhQFVDY7Vj+jzVfNkeb99Ol+lKt3rGqd1cifpaR16K1LvhtvbaxPNOo Q9rfvaGXxkBskb/nOHcYdh7ywZ3Aq4tKIgIIYQCnAtSCjRcJsXhp0qQ0iZmLD4VH3v7v D85iw+lFg2WW19C98VUqaJkFoY3JIDGCVZywVtqHZwNSJcm1u4GmwL29z3ZnzPGPhQ34 fPTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1754689473; x=1755294273; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OibcBy2DTge2z9LTeqlGvKtygE6VeinxQPQ8qCq1w0w=; b=wAr5TYydNRkD98XWBxZVi26eTDHpnknQ5zlQNLTtGDmf4xTuvWvmfU7rpi+dYBDXCb jPdpimlVnq2/mswmvByicTDWFl0JHSd53wH9TEZBt6RP2qj8ZClARW7L/8MMn30opoM4 zzfSZhRmDPWKeCxmArTObI+Oq/nGmigf1Yo1C1wNd/BuFcVTMhtwIBo28NqtDjH+uhSN vlZh5J2ddXqZlcWmTrlVb6jdGBrtz56H/JsPK6014F9AnX/WLuH2YgcAck4QTcs2GGFA jq1qNcyezMa/OOttE67JYa+4+J6slVtQ6+OSl92J3UvYsdfikdr2FW1NIwkl75jKgWbn FhtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy1EgzLdkRmd8DM1tTSwCV6m3jZiO0LjOt9s3EttUQQ3nV6sRN5 eQEvklhliGNfaSQMr2rZGkDO6e4q3NyunhGzBM3Ra5XuuoylvLGIuv+gPU4qgTzCxKo= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctVQ4ZavSjbLkUtS9J7QoRypdH4e3EFozBE1rLUGf59qoDEweqAjDFcxvNdqTu JUiQZoLXB7fAq8oC+hAnLoxvKsTskvBWdqO6imejZ9O2MpzggHeLTNChFRNs7z7xpkCJkzobGS6 O4mPLi/ry27SFrYlOeJ8eFz3Uv9YElWA0vMxLAV9dwnFl5AYV9/oNHO+9T2mzQQxqDzcuOWEgG1 XtQKnXPTT54ZogkeqhpRbmz6KyajOcVdKqsH9tzeXXeIyll86ohGsSHGVA1SaZjlNHD3PvyxymN HyhbuY1OZXfDHO2mhRUaA53L3BseWV0N2ti6CSo7QOi2z7xLN2fUy5dSwdgiH4rRbb2a3iRu6qo ooNf8ALbIdg7ylwF2HtHw826cFLv0zXGlo7I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IECym7Jf+DGPVUPfJErS5mGTTiorr8GDzE8o5zGHZ/Lp1rqC+5rPomvE7vr/foS7gzyruXkBQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:178d:b0:3a4:f6ba:51da with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3b900b2d73amr4760620f8f.15.1754689473020; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([88.97.110.43]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-459fb43b491sm15411275e9.3.2025.08.08.14.44.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Aug 2025 14:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ceri Davies List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:44:21 +0100 Message-Id: References: Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: To: vermaden X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22G86) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzHcS3BqMz3ngt X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] > On 8 Aug 2025, at 22:07, vermaden wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Show me please a way to mark importance of a thing without using ALL CAPS i= n a plain text ... >=20 > Should I use Markdown like that: *important* > Should I use Markdown like that: _important_ > Should I use Markdown like that: "important" >=20 > Something else instead of so called SCREAMING? >=20 Perhaps you could send lots of emails to too many lists and tell people who d= isagree with you that they clearly just don=E2=80=99t understand. Alternatively, you could say =E2=80=9CI think this is important=E2=80=9D and= leave it there. Contrary to Rob, I think your behaviour has been appalling, for what that is= worth. Ceri=20= From nobody Fri Aug 8 21:46:18 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzHfP6pJkz64BX1 for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 21:46:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzHfP4Hj9z3p5N for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 21:46:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 23:46:18 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Ceri Davies Cc: "FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754689579; bh=Ywn29P3bHYvZFkCVLiu8DeP7meITVIZN9FrOdVqOgd0=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QigpcS+5JEd42CV+mCSIFODgW3zO09C/rXSdwbgb1ANPQ4M5QvdM2YzgY/9bVKpsY /wrEL9319qmFNRTNuurNbGIEB6+Z7l/b7BLJXPu4BWbgmsQJbZLxRM2cFXeJqbAS/r ruUD+FzLQqDuR4GEMB71iAjSdK02tddLrvLsqQYo= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzHfP4Hj9z3p5N X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Noted. Will try not do that anymore. Thanks. Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-08 23:44 Nadawca: "Ceri Davies" <ceri@submonkey.net> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>;=20 DW: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org;=20 >=20 >>=20 >=20 >> On 8 Aug 2025, at 22:07, vermaden wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >> Show me please a way to mark importance of a thing without using ALL CAPS in a plain text ... >>=20 >> Should I use Markdown like that: *important* >> Should I use Markdown like that: _important_ >> Should I use Markdown like that: "important" >>=20 >> Something else instead of so called SCREAMING? >>=20 >=20 > Perhaps you could send lots of emails to too many lists and tell people who disagree with you that they clearly just don=E2=80=99t understan= d. >=20 > Alternatively, you could say =E2=80=9CI think this is important=E2=80=9D = and leave it there. >=20 > Contrary to Rob, I think your behaviour has been appalling, for what that is worth. >=20 > Ceri=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Aug 8 22:12:30 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzJDk5j6xz64Dgc; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 22:12:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzJDj3DHSz3trJ; Fri, 08 Aug 2025 22:12:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b=QiMc8e5R; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 00:12:30 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , "sthaug@nethelp.no" Cc: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: <20250808.091053.1322595805169591390.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86h5yi43kp.fsf@ltc.des.dev> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1754691154; bh=xlW2yRbc9UtiUsiuW3/hStJlFRQ5JJJBuDIGmptTtGk=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QiMc8e5RMScXFdNXmaCWIuFFPCGSCIpmfRogthQr/RC+Pr+O34HBISgN2tKn12jMr 5cTstCesZyLIleqAOWDk+JHHpJW3NdziykazajtdIYfFFiqaDjgZF/93r204wmpaHT jYUfH1Yak06bemuGyS57MTRW1FbNJmX6U277CE1I= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.60 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[217.74.67.49:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzJDj3DHSz3trJ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- After that PKGBASE deletion I was not able to stop that 'now empty' Jail. Solution was to 'fill' it with content from ANY Jail to allow stop scripts = to function. # rsync-delete.sh /jail/fbsdjail /jail/bsdinstalljail The 'rsync-delete.sh' script is here: - https://github.com/vermaden/scripts/blob/master/rsync-delete.sh After that I was able to stop it with 'typical' commands. Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-08-08 17:03 Nadawca: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl> Adresat: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" <des@FreeBSD.org>; "sthaug@nethelp.n= o" <sthaug@nethelp.no>;=20 DW: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>; "freebs= d-stable@freebsd.org" <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; freebsd-pkgbase@Free= BSD.org;=20 >=20 > > Current 'vital' thing does NOTHING to protect FreeBSD Base System. >=20 > I literally just wiped one of my Jails because of this 'vital' protection. >=20 > That 'vital' thing is useless in current state after issuing this command: >=20 > # pkg delete -af >=20 > Log below. >=20 > Unbootable and unusable FreeBSD left after the command that only removed packages without PKGBASE and with PKGBASE you are left with dust. >=20 > Even /rescue is gone. >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg info > FreeBSD-acct-14.1p1 System Accounting Utilities > FreeBSD-acct-man-14.1 System Accounting Utilities (Manual Pages) > FreeBSD-acpi-14.1 ACPI Utilities > (...) > FreeBSD-zfs-dev-14.1p1 ZFS Libraries and Utilities (Development Files) > FreeBSD-zfs-man-14.1 ZFS Libraries and Utilities (Manual Pages) > FreeBSD-zoneinfo-14.1p7 zoneinfo package > beadm-1.3.5_1 Solaris-like utility to manage Boot Environments on ZFS > pkg-2.2.1 Package manager >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg delete -af > Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) > Deinstallation has been requested for the following 271 packages (of 0 packages in the universe): >=20 > Installed packages to be REMOVED: > FreeBSD-acct: 14.1p1 > FreeBSD-acct-man: 14.1 > FreeBSD-acpi: 14.1 > (...) > [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [268/271] Deleting files for FreeBSD-zfs-man-14.1: 100% > [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [269/271] Deinstalling FreeBSD-zoneinfo-14.1p7... > [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [269/271] Deleting files for FreeBSD-zoneinfo-14.1p7: 100% > [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [270/271] Deinstalling beadm-1.3.5_1... > [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [270/271] Deleting files for beadm-1.3.5_1: 100% > [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [271/271] Deinstalling pkg-2.2.1... > [bsdinstalljail.lab.org] [271/271] Deleting files for pkg-2.2.1: 100% > pkg: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory > You may need to manually remove /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf if it is no longer needed. >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # ls > /bin/sh: ls: not found >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # vi > /bin/sh: vi: not found >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg > /bin/sh: pkg: not found >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # pkg-static > /bin/sh: pkg-static: not found >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # reboot > /bin/sh: reboot: not found >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # goodbye > /bin/sh: goodbye: not found >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # /rescue/ls /rescue > /bin/sh: /rescue/ls: not found >=20 > root@bsdinstalljail:/ # /rescue/ls.pkgsave /rescue > rescue: ls.pkgsave not compiled in > usage: rescue ..., where is one of: > cat chflags chio chmod cp date dd df echo ed red expr getfacl hostname kenv > kill ln link ls mkdir mv pkill pgrep ps pwd realpath rm unlink rmdir setfacl > sh -sh sleep stty sync test [ csh -csh tcsh -tcsh camcontrol clri devfs dmesg > dump rdump dumpfs dumpon fsck fsck_ffs fsck_4.2bsd fsck_ufs fsck_msdosfs fsdb > fsirand gbde geom glabel gpart ifconfig init kldconfig kldload kldstat > kldunload ldconfig md5 mdconfig mdmfs mknod mount mount_cd9660 mount_msdosfs > mount_nfs mount_nullfs mount_udf mount_unionfs newfs newfs_msdos nos-tun > reboot fastboot halt fasthalt restore rrestore rcorder route savecore shutdown > poweroff swapon sysctl tunefs umount ccdconfig ping ping6 rtsol ipf routed > rtquery bectl zfs zpool bsdlabel disklabel fdisk dhclient head mt sed tail tee > gzip gunzip gzcat zcat bzip2 bunzip2 bzcat less more xz unxz lzma unlzma xzcat > lzcat zstd unzstd zstdcat zstdmt fetch tar nc vi ex id groups whoami iscsictl > zdb chroot chown chgrp iscsid rescue >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature > Data: 2025-08-08 10:31 > Nadawca: "Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav" <des@FreeBSD.org> > Adresat: sthaug@nethelp.no;=20 > DW: freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org;=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> sthaug@nethelp.no writes: >>> - It's important to have a clean separation between the base system >>> (whether that is installed using the package system or not) and the >>> rest. An easy way to list "these are the base system packages" is >>> absolutely needed. >>=20 >> You can easily create an alias for this: >>=20 >> pkg query -e '%o =3D base' %n >>=20 >> If you want something closer to `pkg info`, try: >>=20 >> pkg query -e '%o =3D base' '%n-%v %c' | column -tl 2 >>=20 >>> - Maybe there should be an extra step if you try to delete packages >>> from the base system? >>=20 >> There already is: >>=20 >> % sudo pkg delete FreeBSD-clibs >> Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) >> The following package(s) are locked or vital and may not be > removed: >> =20 >> FreeBSD-clibs >> =20 >> 1 packages requested for removal: 1 locked, 0 missing >>=20 >> The only matter that remains to be settled is which packages should be >> marked vital: >>=20 >> % pkg query -e '%V =3D 1' %n >> FreeBSD-clibs >> FreeBSD-runtime >>=20 >> DES >> --=20 >> Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Aug 8 23:38:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzL8N1d2Cz64NJV for ; 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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Dan Mahoney List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 16:38:39 -0700 To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (23A5297m) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.50 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[gushi.org:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gushi.org,none]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[2620:137:6000:10::142:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gushi.org:s=prime2014]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; APPLE_IOS_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gushi.org:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:393507, ipnet:2620:137:6000::/44, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzL8L3DXZz46f6 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- =EF=BB=BF =EF=BB=BF (Resending from phone after realizing my list-specific from: wasn=E2=80=99t s= et, apologies for weird formatting) Hey all, After the recent big sleep in pkgbase, I hit the following trying to upgrade= to whatever snapshot was published today: [598/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base32-1.303: 100% [599/1127] Deinstalling p5-MIME-Base64-3.16... [599/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base64-3.16: 100% Child process pid=3D21537 terminated abnormally: Segmentation fault (oh crap) root@poudriere:/home/dmahoney # pkg upgrade ELF interpreter /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 not found, error 2 Abort (double crap) root@poudriere:/home/dmahoney # pkg-static install -f pkg pkg-static: Unable to determine the ABI, none of the ABI_FILEs can be read. pkg-static: Cannot parse configuration file! root@poudriere:/home/dmahoney # /rescue/sh Cannot read termcap database; using dumb terminal settings. # pkg-static pkg: not enough arguments Usage: pkg [-v] [-d] [-l] [-N] [-j |-c |-r ] [-C ] [-R ] [-o var=3Dvalue] [-= 4|-6] [] For more information on available commands and options see 'pkg help'. # pkg-static install -f pkg pkg-static: Unable to determine the ABI, none of the ABI_FILEs can be read. Now, if this were 14.x, I'd fix this by untarring a distfile right over / to= get back up and running. Not quite an option in 15, is it? (I would encou= rage the people making this stuff to please consider keeping those built, ev= en if bsdinstall uses pkgbase). This is dayjob's poudriere system -- the build process for it is well docume= nted and the parts of it that aren't managed by puppet are easily managed be= cause I captured every command used to create every jail and ports tree (whi= ch was slow because many of them came from freebsd-archive; both old jails a= nd old copies of ports trees last known to work with given versions of FreeB= SD (kind of required when you needed to build packages in 2020 because remot= e hands were Not An Option). Like all our systems, the bits we care about (= homedirs, /usr/local/etc) are in backups as well. We kind of need it to wor= k. So this isn't an emergency. This system is really there so that me, as a po= rt maintainer, can build a debug build of something, but this machine isn't i= n our critical path. ...but What If It Was? We run Critical Stuff, out the= re on lone servers in faraway places (on bare metal) But it's *really* not instilling me with a lot of confidence in the readines= s of this pkgbase idea. (For the record, I've also had freebsd-update leave= me dead on the table in similar ways in the past. I literally called them o= ut during a BSDcan talk without trying to bash Colin too hard). I can capture more scrollback if people want, but I wasn't doing any of the c= razy -f commands people are talking about. This was literally a "pkg upgrad= e". Full command output is over at https://users.isc.org/~dmahoney/failedupgrade= .txt if devs want to have a look and try to black-box it. I'll keep the VM r= unning (and logged in, in a screen session) if there are things people want m= e to try. This begs the questions: * Is there CI for pkgbase that tries to upgrade from whatever version is imm= ediately previous to it, before publishing it? (I know that's what version I= was running, it's the version everyone's been stuck at for weeks!) * For all the debate about "pkgbase and pkg should be exactly the same", per= haps pkgbase could have an auto-bectl in it? * Is there support somewhere for having a lockstep "set" of packages that on= e knows are in /var/db/pkg and constitute a relatively concurrent install? (= Or a list of files that I could tell pkg-static to install with a glob, out o= f /var/cache/pkg) * With something like -CURRENT, is there any support for saying "Okay not th= e current-current tree, but current-minus-one" (I guess that would be if yo= u're working with the weekly builds, but that's not quite the same. Your on= ly option is "base system of the now" but it happens less frequently). * And for running -CURRENT where this kind of breakage can happen, could we g= et a statically linked version of pkg? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 27cd7e44ab8b0028a312e01648b9105e; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 01:56:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.600.51.1.1\)) Subject: RE: New pkgbase packages on all mirrors [FreeBSD:15:armv7/base_*/ not updated yet; same for powerpc*'s; more] Message-Id: <6B2776EC-026B-4ED7-AF15-FB58DB1E1ECE@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 18:55:50 -0700 Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org To: Philip Paeps X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.600.51.1.1) References: <6B2776EC-026B-4ED7-AF15-FB58DB1E1ECE.ref@yahoo.com> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.64.146:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.64.146:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzPBd6Zmvz3MDf X-Spamd-Bar: --- Philip Paeps wrote on Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:25:46 UTC : > > Today's pkgbase builds are now on all the mirrors. > > A note: the cleanworld bit was set for all branches. You'll get new > packages if you're using pkgbase on stable/14, releng/14.2 or > releng/14.3 as well as main. > > Sorry for the noise today and the fortnight or so without builds. It is unclear if the builds I'm noting are trying but broken or what. It may be not your problem to deal with at all. But, the evidence that is publicly available does not allow me to figure out much for routing notes. FYI: FreeBSD:15:armv7/base_latest/ FreeBSD:15:amd64/base_weekly/ FreeBSD:15:arm64/base_weekly/ FreeBSD:15:armv7/base_weekly/ (Those last 3 just might be based on how they are scheduled for updates for all I know.) It is less obvious to me what the status is supposed to be for: FreeBSD:15:powerpc*/base_latest/ FreeBSD:15:powerpc*/base_weekly/ But they are also not from August as stands. === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Sat Aug 9 04:29:23 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzSbX2RJcz64qXm for ; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 04:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzSbX1YCWz3bqg; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 04:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Sat, 9 Aug 2025 00:29:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Philip Paeps To: Lexi Winter Cc: =?utf-8?q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, Cy Schubert Subject: Re: pkgbase is NOT broken because of Kerberos (was: Re: pkgbase is broken because of Kerberos) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:29:23 +0800 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0r6272) Message-ID: <1F3A18F7-A606-4F7D-BA8D-B2AA7F584A0C@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: References: <843FFBA8-08E8-4255-9A35-4A49714DAD86@gushi.org> <868qju3thh.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On 2025-08-09 00:29:25 (+0800), Lexi Winter wrote: > Philip Paeps: >> Unfortunately though ... >> >>> philip@costaud1.chi:~ % su >>> Segmentation fault > > this should be fixed by https://reviews.freebsd.org/D51829. Thank you! This appears to work on the FreeBSD.org cluster. Please commit to main at your convenience. :) > (thanks to Philip for very helpful interactive debugging via IRC :-) All in a night's work. ;) Philip From nobody Sat Aug 9 06:53:05 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzWnK4h1hz63Z2r; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 06:53:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzWnJ6Qrjz3sWN; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 06:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754722389; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=WT5DIkLaxreSuiPKMsPAY+rghPd1nYZVkW/BxVLtr/g=; b=SzgWcoSPDltwrsAbvcPBWH5cS9v6A1nGNRa/Q2Cw8ywpzoSj7V2N2L3+fqPmrPfgqCweeG vjPTzojZG0u9FM0y8XeGbFL+URtoHftfhGYqPHh8JMsSFX9BI3CoydJjzi8AMCzmfNxbIT GEtN/cYMebf7BB5JIZX3qEW+A11cf8LFSOPYrFRFb6QYS+hXvTkvVaa7cwltkWysJjRqsh sK9XpGvw7EqBQ9zM6dY7Vt4EOJOrpCX4Pgb/DAS9jwm43VvRwu84oNgxOgv7c8MTnKdKhi pmgOy+GyXZrZTtqnzyrKUuJGs/GNQmgmGi0aGNZ1iURLuj+KrjMu1zcJZTvKEQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754722389; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=WT5DIkLaxreSuiPKMsPAY+rghPd1nYZVkW/BxVLtr/g=; b=t2T0LgEG5WI7g36GbDJrgijvgdntMqO7ACaanbtyseEIoqDfpipondCBWqXN4XviFLFbIT M4U3Oc/GgPE2w5kUjGi+WwjK4GFSF7Ybo2Ep9auoJW0tjxtRDdC57nrA5Ou6ljMx9dE23L u6dg6L26wYAi2zOkRoU/yJZuUtsWsPP8+qsQZ6qMr3URL0TnQOGLvP0uGcbj2+E47jvbvC Ux2M623hKvWpvyBuUs677D4w3AK8n7K3LEThRy0X4YFHnmj3Sj8oIGlxO/vrTZsAZY/qjW jzXeifyhyoIqtgIYjqczQz1KHgH/iOjJ5SAlVbRh5gpIKypcLTTaq7c1Py4cog== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754722389; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UWbG1SM2osyB3+603MItA58xckB9f1lfmuj5W12h2ydLlYK+7F3VRb5N44tHFSUjSPs8Hq 04QnzLWp+GyRkqBEJi+Hvii+G0Wgn1NtfGgBeuyYeJsIaSo2o4Z6aJMK7xQJIYpuxgTRTU pnqy/6ROtNEHw/obbFGIr16b9ELMpnK0XPXT8vpHlxqHw3MF5Da0gRTiUPDLWlNIRRKAtw 0mVJN4Lppwit43ZUIlveVqiIVD/EqBd1BxRoXEQPDkBmYKlZz5TlNRpJ98BnvxcC3uzXNS MObVcQRaueDWbBfxP/RgoJpU0N9DKI2bcplsWWbUfmog/2GNG3DWLV3IK8k7yg== Received: from mousie.catspoiler.org (unknown [76.212.85.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: truckman) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bzWnH4p1xzwtf; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 06:53:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2025 23:53:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Dimitry Andric cc: David Chisnall , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Tomek CEDRO , Colin Percival , vermaden , Sulev-Madis Silber , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <864iui3si5.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <86pld62alk.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <0CC405ED-BCFC-41AD-A487-5261421BF8A6@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Disposition: INLINE On 8 Aug, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 8 Aug 2025, at 15:56, David Chisnall wrote: >>=20 >> On 8 Aug 2025, at 14:42, Dag-Erling Sm=B8rgrav wrote: >>>=20 >>> Tomek CEDRO writes: >>>> [...] from user perspective these changes were easy to adapt to :-) >>>=20 >>> So will this one. >>=20 >> Let=FFs remember the thing that started this entire thread: `pkg delete >> -af` >>=20 >> This is an *incredibly* stupid thing to do. Long before pkg came >> along, I did the equivalent of this and managed to lock myself out of >> a headless box by doing this because I forgot that I was using the >> ports version of openssh instead of the base one. >=20 > I'm one of the people that regularly runs `pkg delete -af`, even with > `-y` added. :) That said, I only use this when I have completely > rebuilt a ports collection with poudriere against a newer base jail, > and then I'd like to start completely from scratch with freshly > installed packages. This also clears out any unnecessary non-leaf > packages there were pulled in by a previous package build. pkg upgrade -af pkg autoremove > Obviously that is an outlier scenario! But does pkg have a way to > express "show me packages only from this particular repo", or "delete > only packages from this particular repo"? That would make it easy to > do "delete only the packages from ports, not from base". >=20 > -Dimitry >=20 >=20 From nobody Sat Aug 9 07:55:01 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzY8w407Yz63gN9; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 07:55:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from flo@smeets.xyz) Received: from mail-out.smeets.xyz (mail-out.smeets.xyz [IPv6:2a01:4f8:10a:3543::25:11]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzY8w138mz4373; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 07:55:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from flo@smeets.xyz) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mail.smeets.xyz (mail.smeets.xyz [IPv6:2a01:4f8:10a:3543::25:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 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bh=wJdCmvN5HDBqzAgKTayJkH2kmwlwPCCOZfScGmjKuXw=; b=CaQAhfwNznbZxFPw1vymeGOs6XXJUWbV7t7S3uwGRrtUDtKurx4a0nN2G8X0EDkeNBz4yi dJJBj9XORM34tSBw== Message-ID: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 09:55:01 +0200 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable Content-Language: en-US To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: From: Florian Smeets Autocrypt: addr=flo@smeets.xyz; keydata= xsFNBFpyBwsBEADLq0c46orEtbMn4SptX+VJxR1wB4YwaErZme1bqF4nZHIhlRNET22HsHdQ doagaB4uACq0Rj5kHcu614ZnnNkLPyCxWQATx+cbdiFO4/hfT8tAvKnBtiy3awKJ5uGCNO2E 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AhfzqetncKKiJUVUHDg+goxejamNsNq88xdnx1QDsDquZA8UdDdLgd8iDGyHTTlgokPZlw== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------fyEJcoD9aAagvzgfT7xfNwmf" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzY8w138mz4373 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE] This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------fyEJcoD9aAagvzgfT7xfNwmf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1zx0pTS7h0vU0VnhCrGrqCJu"; protected-headers="v1" From: Florian Smeets To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> Subject: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable References: In-Reply-To: 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h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; z=Subject:=20Re:=20HEADS-UP:=20pkgbase=20pkg=20upgrade=20breaks=20s ystems=20Re:=20after=20updating=0D=0A=20to=20latest,=20pkg=20base= 20segfaults=20and=20leaves=20me=20unbootable|From:=20"Dan=20Mahone y=20(Ports)"=20|In-Reply-To:=20<582d802f-da93-4 15c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz>|Date:=20Sat,=209=20Aug=202025=20 01:58:34=20-0700|Cc:=20freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,=0D=0A=20freebs d-current@freebsd.org|References:=20=0D=0A=20<582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@s meets.xyz>|To:=20Florian=20Smeets=20; b=aYOZhldalNn9bIFzUQNwV6wc0HYTKY18emliYdFD68V/GC6KomG3mOgA/42SxWdUW L1lL7QxLA6p6R6Xbb0RpOGX9dKv/XZkEfsdNTsn7bxa5kc/HkQD2kGerXixWZ2bEYE G1tJW6ec0UOIFwDQLsHJjsyarwsnGRhG/W+IO5pEaScO7CoyDd/xRTvNciqVqWKLF4 km3rN9bxfLiTGMgPGAF9cFEK++gfr7tD9Bwc+iI/VixmHJmSFpnyIBgpLhlZP0VABj Rr2EBhuek6c0dmyiADnBo+x+DuEzIDr38/IjQx4tAIOCk2QFh2E5DRrObMxFe1Vi7v v0QtaBv1kTF5w== X-Authentication-Warning: prime.gushi.org: Host [IPv6:2001:500:6b:200:c000:0:0:8] claimed to be smtpclient.apple Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3863.100.1\)) Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable From: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" In-Reply-To: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 01:58:34 -0700 Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4F4C6FA3-C302-4E23-9236-BA86311FE795@gushi.org> References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> To: Florian Smeets X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3863.100.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzZZX5whSz4B7D X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:393507, ipnet:2620:137:6000::/44, country:US] > On Aug 9, 2025, at 12:55=E2=80=AFAM, Florian Smeets = wrote: >=20 > Adding current@ to CC >=20 > On 09.08.25 01:38, Dan Mahoney wrote: >> =EF=BB=BF >> =EF=BB=BF >> (Resending from phone after realizing my list-specific from: wasn=E2=80= =99t set, apologies for weird formatting) >> Hey all, >> After the recent big sleep in pkgbase, I hit the following trying to = upgrade to whatever snapshot was published today: >> [598/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base32-1.303: 100% >> [599/1127] Deinstalling p5-MIME-Base64-3.16... >> [599/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base64-3.16: 100% >> Child process pid=3D21537 terminated abnormally: Segmentation fault >> (oh crap) >> root@poudriere:/home/dmahoney # pkg upgrade >> ELF interpreter /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 not found, error 2 >> Abort >> (double crap) >=20 > Yes, I had the same issue yesterday evening. When the system was back, = I was too tired to summarize and send something to the mailing list. >=20 > FWIW, I revived the system by deleting all newer packages rm = /var/cache/pkg/*snap20250808* and just untaring the stuff in = /var/cache/pkg to / >=20 > cd / ; for i in `/rescue/ls -1 /var/cache/pkg/FreeBSD-* ` ; do = /rescue/tar xvzf $i ; done >=20 > After that, I resorted to building from source and installing to get = the system into a half way consistent state with a chance of surviving a = reboot. >=20 > When starting my upgrade I saw that it wanted to remove a lot of non = pkgbase packages (how are we doing to differentiate pkgbase packages and = "ports" packages in the future?). I thought this might be related to the = krb5 thing, so I created an up to date poudriere jail via pkgbase method = and rebuilt all my pkgs, but even then I saw the same thing as Den, that = pkg wanted to remove a lot of ports pkgs, as this system is not = important I thought I can resolve that after the pkgbase upgrade and = started the upgrade. >=20 > I didn't save scroll back. In my case I saw at the top the first ~100 = pkg transactions were uninstalling pkgbase pkgs, then it upgraded some, = then pkg exited with a segfault. >=20 > Leaving me with ELF interpreter /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 not found, error = 2 >=20 > One thing I checked was /libexec/ was completely empty. >=20 > Florian Florian, I'm sorry you hit this issue as well, but I feel a bit less crazy now. = At least, about this. I'm also glad I was able to capture something you = weren't. Long live "gnu screen" being my primary window manager. I myself had a standby VM from before we converted to pkgbase, so it's a = little old, and we might need to re-create a poudriere jail or two, but = I'm currently building world as well (pkgbase is in time-out, mister!). = Nothing is lost here, but if any devs would like me to run more = commands, or catch more forensics, please let me know. I suspect this = might need to wait for bapt to come back, but I'm not sure. I'm not trying to get into the recent (ahem) lively discussion thread -- = but I am interested in helping solve a problem in any way. Anyone, free = to email me directly, or Paeps has my mobile number and can ping me out = of band. Since I have that other VM, I'm going to leave this VM as-is = other than doing a few ls'es to figure out which jails/ports trees I = need to re-create. Sadly, I don't have a snapshot of just before the = failure to try to reproduce. -Dan= From nobody Sat Aug 9 10:52:08 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzd54475sz641Dc for ; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 10:52:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzd542XrLz3Qp0; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 10:52:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754736728; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tGzJ5GjQeA5WaQ79W0IY00WcstjAiHTNovwmi/g63Dc=; b=l0OZ8E0MsM3WdlwdjpPjnYdI12yb3mCwxJe+NCC4rghVakV8/dIXam2YCzxkbH8UX/a9nQ g2MEbOaJHSWb9GRMtqUefSm1wJf4V/cDL2zywewDJkA1/RyetVJN93M5XiA9kb6VCuDFLm JM2MNmI9hop7ImY5Z1zTyCiWwmTbdsSGd5pNJ+Ki5mvJxtKONGNd47BUCAxtXQ+9zFVk+m GMcGSXgCkzuJeSuhXNCdCRqLkJfYOh2KHfNOHGP/1h6vED69Xok9B/CbB5hJRmzymShzg0 bftfYNUOx9ewt4MSIkmdbvwscHjeaVf65y+lhv620d+crygF2fDTTGSwQD4Pbg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754736728; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=tGzJ5GjQeA5WaQ79W0IY00WcstjAiHTNovwmi/g63Dc=; b=bEdQaI1jfkwH8JX1UJaflsmqmlQZQrUOi/Ni+hSWXIIg63ZW7M+Ggh8iNVNmGJxAclGRe8 CUvkSPt2oRs2AtU8CWMS+tSE+ybLaWjFyP4AnU8UudhDdrCIZFkz+VXW5nQ5O0OhlXVazj 5koZXPaHKzGbWE7CY9cjbWUaQiMoFgkY/wcB67tz5Bs0SmXV87Ncr6N5M175cemMx/TAae xJ6/DK/aE+Q86LKn16I+WeeeQUwtbOvHsZ2UE34WOkwsDBVlEvl67AkhhX3wEuEbVAzcZt NWNox/3SYaTUNfs6Tckk5Nbgk2ZlTWMu+TnPlRERQ6lQ7+Ns1Spe6YZOcjwbhA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754736728; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=l+k3pcy7TxnKoy2m3icpmX1noShooxGTS5Kt11ZgJHU/gBfXlQ6dAA12TV/0hJqRR1iva5 VoGqqsNuJLTjyaGl086y6jCf93mLI0GZ0WEfDaZqqnYf3Ah1DXUc1CuYdB4/CQPzoHGAv3 9omnu4NfkQKPjpF7AU+2xtRraxVKSzJoG0FVyvJyRf1v+NrrizgFl/YzYup2UnzQKpFxnJ +QjxICEgOifSDfeKXo4uNau7NkZQMo4xD/jV7ss5733InE1IN72BsRZ1CuI6en3QRyWyTk Zbc4mmf1EF+HFEFop4NPBzOkOr7Nh9FZACcfxrAxPCocflEIZGF+VOOkEvbmig== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1532) id 2C8581D7E2; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 10:52:08 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:52:08 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Dan Mahoney Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LUX7HWYl3o+h8MrF" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --LUX7HWYl3o+h8MrF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Dan Mahoney: > [598/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base32-1.303: 100% > [599/1127] Deinstalling p5-MIME-Base64-3.16... > [599/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base64-3.16: 100% > Child process pid=21537 terminated abnormally: Segmentation fault do you happen to know what process got SEGV here? if you still have a copy of the broken system it should be logged in /var/log/messages, e.g.: Aug 8 16:52:34 tansy kernel: pid 80112 (su), jid 0, uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) > root@poudriere:/home/dmahoney # pkg upgrade > ELF interpreter /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 not found, error 2 > Abort i believe this is a result of a pkg bug that causes it to remove packages too early, which leaves the system in a broken state if the upgrade fails for some reason. Isaac has a fix for this which is waiting to be merged: https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/pull/2488 this isn't the root cause of your issue, but it makes the result much worse than it should be. > Now, if this were 14.x, I'd fix this by untarring a distfile right > over / to get back up and running. Not quite an option in 15, is it? > (I would encourage the people making this stuff to please consider > keeping those built, even if bsdinstall uses pkgbase). you can fix this by reinstalling the base system with pkg-static, which is the pkgbase equivalent of extracting base.txz: pkg-static install -r base -g 'FreeBSD-*' however, this will overwrite all your configuration files, including /etc/master.passwd, so be very careful. > But it's *really* not instilling me with a lot of confidence in the > readiness of this pkgbase idea. fwiw, i use pkgbase extensively and try to keep track of what the current issues are, and i was aware of this one. as far as i know, we don't have any other critical issues in pkgbase right now. so, it's not that no one is aware of problems, but there are some that haven't been fixed yet. i agree it is unfortunate that the pkg.f.o repository update triggered this particular issue, so we should work out what's going on there. > * For all the debate about "pkgbase and pkg should be exactly the > same", perhaps pkgbase could have an auto-bectl in it? i would like a pkg option to always create a BE before upgrade, and i don't think this needs to be restricted to base. it's possible for ports upgrades to go wrong and that still breaks the system if it relies on ports for whatever its job is. > * With something like -CURRENT, is there any support for saying "Okay > not the current-current tree, but current-minus-one" pkgbase itself supports this: the packages are published to versioned directories and you can specify a particular version instead of latest. for example: # COLUMNS=72 ls /export/www/pkg.le-fay.org/htdocs/base/FreeBSD:15:amd64 15.snap20250620153806 15.snap20250719064609 15.snap20250723060537 15.snap20250621164409 15.snap20250720115500 15.snap20250730114516 15.snap20250625161336 15.snap20250720120932 15.snap20250731132603 15.snap20250717233446 15.snap20250721030138 latest however, this doesn't seem to be exposed on pkg.f.o right now, you only get the latest repository. perhaps that should change. > * And for running -CURRENT where this kind of breakage can happen, > could we get a statically linked version of pkg? pkg-static already exists in the pkg package. if you mean we should have pkg-static in base, that can't happen unless we import pkg into src, which for various reasons isn't considered feasible right now. --LUX7HWYl3o+h8MrF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaJcoUwAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YNVJAP9K8f/YiVOb/A8t8dmRY2KPAc2y0P29Rsb4Eucb3VSDLQD/QCQ028BZH2PF F5A1pHiauYYcGb/U+dvAcrd6/hJdyw4= =5Fx9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LUX7HWYl3o+h8MrF-- From nobody Sat Aug 9 10:59:59 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzdG81NnVz641v0; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 11:00:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzdG80DJqz3RQS; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 11:00:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754737200; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Kghtor0w+DOyjIs3zcFRUNlyyqseVrYs+XeiULcVnnA=; b=m0XFlU8Oj606AOZsc7KEvNGaO9qKRiY9alDECwpE9q30Kk+orpk2d0HQgNppB/nouiQ1Mq dT5wKtJFpkKy6og1i4OLgNm03+Qk4qhYYuuBiooaxLRliWT/nii53xaHQSwXViCWrmKO8v hgTRC0+ARd5jRTCaiX2TfpQXLE4mA8RZ3v8KEPD1LEm3wCkY+Oytc3C46rslDJXmDWsJz9 36FSJ9PZBElTWsagVPcUKIO0j+wHT62vyGiqzCgEJMyZsAw6Zv/HmzwLWl+crc55Hm5Usa /cFGvGV6A2sJSbZQhoM0ACuefYon7jNcS71S8iYQYpw8mRW3FlKDi6hcOsCCjQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754737200; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Kghtor0w+DOyjIs3zcFRUNlyyqseVrYs+XeiULcVnnA=; b=HV6SQkVmFSJpDHKpSRl32rxAJKJNCXrH0VEKFLm7ezilq7F0eAU3q/GDX1DzDIe93ACxQW AeRekFicwtMAkyYgg+CgwfbQ+WrXyd+8IlNeLTEOJcILYy5WeSoXiqmNYsjwzrUL4bn5Ev FgE0GIdhhvxTzRKjvuziImzHogP2guxjln01yRUuPV/SxN8NVgkvM3ve1k/xQ5SnyTmb2o R7NT5yzU7q3YuWkLaPoMMTkstdeTrESpwIbZ8s8jUJFGW09mcFnCXZwiFZLD9c37fc7QM5 /vbt1j8F9HUjmKQn0QQB3ZKPWAtV72KIBZ9l8PBLo1mKryyHEKx1G1sEwD1kYw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1754737200; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kWNoqGTupBsNBePKyLScZzug+FJ14NNTEFl5tGiCTXtbPsn6AoS2wN28ecftaK0tEP+Zwg pp4bVM1Sy8V0bIVvVhn+/s1bTMDyjnKm1zRSurCkkb95MriXNPtEmtE2RhFbRY/fvKiH75 kiZR+rPQUZXUIeyK7yIQwxWheeq46Cm6X7pn3/cHzaBTC5blAVWY0cPCmMBEXJWfyek6EJ h8n/Ks8uHIaNNxxLc/s8fBIOVWXXN4KVUtVnIomOPgrYixQmVmmnpTfv6ckBbv1cchRCd7 daa1rcLuW6yVZTkCsLNl+fFam/KyOs+bh4u7hq1qRvuQCGDMHW8UB8GRAa2UEw== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1532) id E3A821D8D8; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 10:59:59 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:59:59 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Florian Smeets Cc: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Florian Smeets , Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Cfpuh/wODnc2lC5y" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> --Cfpuh/wODnc2lC5y Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Florian Smeets: > Yes, I had the same issue yesterday evening. When the system was back, I was > too tired to summarize and send something to the mailing list. as a workaround, i suggest anyone upgrading pkgbase split the upgrade into two steps: pkg upgrade -r base # upgrade base pkg upgrade -r FreeBSD # upgrade ports replace 'base' with whatever your pkgbase repository is called. as this problem appears to be triggered by something in ports, this should ensure you don't end up with a broken base system if you run into this. --Cfpuh/wODnc2lC5y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaJcqLwAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YJ6VAQDgJxo3INreAC2YkJR+wNPt4hTJ63f67e0uyEujP0swHgEAlxahVC5pT9B3 iwm4SX3Mz7O2isHtFTp+69K9J+DMAAE= =2SHe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Cfpuh/wODnc2lC5y-- From nobody Sat Aug 9 12:38:34 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) 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bh=/vVBOo543vrbEvD0pDcPqiq5ywWdjL0T7TScGwpE5vY=; b=urqkd0MjWqs2TrdMU66gh4Sjt/myqVpwamoBTljFAExArO3jKvBon08sgbJgkhzee5fe6i 9+qhqLPPuHd56NCA== Message-ID: <614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed907230aa3@smeets.xyz> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 14:38:34 +0200 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable Content-Language: en-US To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> From: Florian Smeets Autocrypt: addr=flo@smeets.xyz; keydata= xsFNBFpyBwsBEADLq0c46orEtbMn4SptX+VJxR1wB4YwaErZme1bqF4nZHIhlRNET22HsHdQ doagaB4uACq0Rj5kHcu614ZnnNkLPyCxWQATx+cbdiFO4/hfT8tAvKnBtiy3awKJ5uGCNO2E 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FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[smeets.xyz:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:+,4:~,5:~]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzgS32Y2dz3pk8 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------kZN56ys05SxUysTrx3sCRT9X Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------ldaNcsq5fBmTwis1O7U4SzE2"; protected-headers="v1" From: Florian Smeets To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed907230aa3@smeets.xyz> Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> In-Reply-To: --------------ldaNcsq5fBmTwis1O7U4SzE2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------caIAwC46O2sE3aZ0UJTFZga6" 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(mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzgbz6nsKz64Cy0; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:45:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzgbz3TD7z3sd9; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:45:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1754743535; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=U36Z34rfKPCjwFRKLn7FpMsly+eRKxlv3m6/syBXv50=; 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, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> <614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed907230aa3@smeets.xyz> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ipdcTfQGGD56YTBP" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed907230aa3@smeets.xyz> --ipdcTfQGGD56YTBP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Florian Smeets: > I uploaded the important part of /var/log/messages here > https://people.freebsd.org/~flo/pkg-upgrade-20250808.txt> Aug 8 23:26:03 rp64 kernel: pid 18424 (pkg), jid 0, uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) are you able to get a backtrace from this core? --ipdcTfQGGD56YTBP Content-Type: 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RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RECEIVED_HELO_LOCALHOST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[flo]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[smeets.xyz:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:+,4:~,5:~]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzgfh0HbRz3tmZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------8wMyzXbiR1gWjtiuNzuJjBoL Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------esFITP5ZzeHoWLbiV5srjm9d"; protected-headers="v1" From: Florian Smeets To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Message-ID: <548d052a-1d32-4e61-bf74-77dd77c9314a@smeets.xyz> Subject: Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable References: In-Reply-To: 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[64.223.192.211]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-4b06ea8cec8sm75549411cf.25.2025.08.09.08.09.31 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Aug 2025 08:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:09:31 -0400 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Darren Henderson Autocrypt: addr=darren.henderson@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFiou5oBEACruBRieOQ4IDz0ybQeHm+GSA04ckSsHsFsC5fIEMJiRf5hW5XQ8aMU78VX Khp9MFB769a2K5oz45vlfnhRYZQ/jK5ABq7yC3IzzyLhknYXtAPnCBjvHMa811O0/ZHwVWSk JPOZxDTFJzFd+SNeHVXz03M6UfEJ963hj78oF3bcR8ou3+GScGcSGeHdf1UYsPDOus1uUIo4 8pjIp0P9mCy+OffUIGm06lQCeq/w0YTXJ1V4wBBm83J5Lbdrwzb1KUHJqCs/QovpduIgjav0 bwPQjqzNi20tVlZwwnQasJ06anWQGC/pQSxwC8/EjeM8xtun0pXmCcEaVZf5Cul26p9dMe5W WNzi+5edIirXvdnFscoROiT7QPU5IRj+Mvq2oOQ0tN4gnAnlhInS31yilcpP6RelA1de+1Wk JsIJ8dgG0pmEYyMNByrumulQ2zZ8yAvN8LYiVD5WVfrEsnrUvifMi0/kBAJmBvQNtNk62hP9 O0jIfnERtcnzAdNZbCIR8C42ZbJ50vZhUkWrvmYja6pDeFync4jd9c/RT8to6AgK4NbMN9K+ Rkp85v5PTeIdjfRTjFXOV0HDGi/SmyfgXSpfGsTkAzZvZO+3TacAc3yWnBVL7zXdgq3dIgII tShoKronNeFj9Qzygsvo0NF3l6nadS391eDP9SQK29Ry8OTZIwARAQABzS1EYXJyZW4gSGVu ZGVyc29uIDxkYXJyZW4uaGVuZGVyc29uQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwY4EEwEIADgWIQRRbTdstlJ2 L0k6UCPYhvzxDD9nTQUCWKi7mgIbAwULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDYhvzx DD9nTZXYD/4h/rE+qayd/3NHHDdhOt4IKb+a+/xrIdLoG+0S1fWslHYxdej9hBH9ISBEGxfQ 1Wo6FMnvTYufQHYfFdJKVXky7z4SsEsiO1pRP/v9BNHD264YHHd9zuG+j4SGWFJKnj76PX8o KoeIsgYXzvf/5qo+/vIX8Qrm73VTOQ9jCucXehIIjfTagis1PDn12jTKWlEV664ErUgG3KY2 Ljq0039HW1ThkY10VQtkWcQ9jqLipbYpnrL11eisC5FwMh0NHy/gi0dwlG1HikzUFkRfnYfT GbWhECGttYhgyBYjjZLyJc4YAYTynls5NfuYHQGGQKp05laUnYzf6WLHxPb8IsMrUzOLzXRd DOZmpk20q+4qz9ZLQsqs0LqfVer7bj9RldfqvfJJgcKsJ22hAdCF62K+bjykbXP1VC7KlYcP irNsPraHH5HPHeO3qm7vZ5JpXmqcrmsaCtpj2e8qNbt8GnbfkIf/ysGqcH0IOPtgO7AewLVd tO1BcXr5fPaznY5RXLJUerMBTaFma7nkAsAdvyi4yp2D5YZvZ7jvoNj/uP2597Lx+Lm8p/Hw L/D3m+BP79oBwUj+Eh3VRBAJn0DkBxuxHQzqdrBCslpRzQT7GkDML3KpEHN3PJR9r+1+0exD hES3YcgMrvnwMcXYgh5lCKXK7MvLFxS1EfmBkxMaBlmvZc7BTQRYqLuaARAA5Yjyml76KUkN iitvqPohdIOkFsYuT0cM6UTFSXGIPzlaBMs7LMYdCAZhtiKHSsuWlWrbdhuFZEyXMJYzBXOH hfs4nDa98UGfnsXJXsq5LVVr3E4Jjm0ZsAO7yHbzUcn/zLhZGIQTV8EgY2yXSOMQVp98y9gA AHT10gOemlVD/KW3xOAJFFWUYrYePeyu89D4LWWjrJjF4Xn0Pj+1gprT6mgiWDXTja526ify mgx0BSZo8dO37hacbRPHPIePU50+vfdBPkaAL3u7+sxf/44IfhLGoQrWfCD0+6YhwPmMzVGG q9oldrbXH8wKhRjfR4V3C+S7Eu6JCMsK90g46Oag3uYERGR01x5hiSlWdZefYgM0aGtOUQSQ 9AFrvoUTP7MpT60ETToO4cqC4VNeTYM+yGXlGS6FqfykrR/cOMVYbaKwF6jLOpsZiocqHP4f mKWeLhTVkvlb/8vSN5fFGn03eKEMY2AwFZp//wUrT0Jm/ftFSRySJQDOUphZtUTUtuEXfeXF R4r/bRJdRNTClpjVkCDQJQ7BHZqYJYyIpxPFC+ldO/QiqCEkKTzGswMUzfe7rT/NvFUy1bPF +bMfRi1sHzl5ZwYEI2HfdXElTPAgvoVrXGPeeYwqPb7OCgvp68tSwHvOaYWzjcYAq/+5NgAE VvJtqOnb2Ik5AIH5ji828asAEQEAAcLBdgQYAQgAIBYhBFFtN2y2UnYvSTpQI9iG/PEMP2dN BQJYqLuaAhsMAAoJENiG/PEMP2dNcTAP/i1x1jl3pOhoHnEI3gA5EXpF+e2AefL3KRPDgVwE C1LdLBNLHIZW/0HuL/tikbyzgQE8MA/GciwwMn35aM2tzWQbeYo587kN3HXi4mZ8t8+PnwwG gt1L21d0RRdxSABWcDQBYE+2/Cxa8MW5ifDRKJJc6hmLXGWQ/b3jQ20Z20PTgQsmRg1kJ7Sa rn+HZYGNQrAyTcwC3EDtNDTccJE4fX9jM18jU9DQPGlmutloP9HJXc8SHFcnjb82XZ4zPZ1X vGoOgs9pCyKRDIFkXEGsghbTN6LPEThQK+UTV+tJ/e/9PSTqFxDCTLGTiqkIbFHB3icmdnGp 4wRWa/pitHAcEiiYwUKnXHsdIosW9rmK/ZKUh0b6v+GmJQMga0tJsZxpcWS9FUZxhDs/0Hdz bVOe/e4ae4xpHA3wndUcDtzGywoSxEeAYx0eS+3+cVwM6JIXP6yy5d6hZ/K8ipr3adQ46/3r E3hQG4CxHTiR2Rd80A8gpyXL15fL+dNfd0On2QfNT8ztu2zYlbp1MbsGkYWKX+Kfa8c2XZ/h E0B1YVch2oSLiBm9FcBHkpxmUkmyY2XxElZiqXDmGi7KSiJtm7LONFePRoQhQKrAN8uZyFt7 NHOQiI3XcTLWXt6wqbzuKxIl+FW90JOE4FzJQiR9Hjj3gpVmobsdb3fTiAYGNByygDSK In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.997]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::82e:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzkp73GSPz3WZY X-Spamd-Bar: --- On 8/8/2025 7:38 PM, Dan Mahoney wrote: >  >  > (Resending from phone after realizing my list-specific from: wasn’t set, apologies for weird formatting) > > Hey all, > > After the recent big sleep in pkgbase, I hit the following trying to upgrade to whatever snapshot was published today: > > [598/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base32-1.303: 100% > [599/1127] Deinstalling p5-MIME-Base64-3.16... > [599/1127] Deleting files for p5-MIME-Base64-3.16: 100% > Child process pid=21537 terminated abnormally: Segmentation fault > > (oh crap) Just a data point... I saw the same. I had issues with both a current system and a 14.3-RELEASE VM that had been baseified. The 14.3 system presented slightly differently but the end results were the same. Thankfully these were VMs so rolling back wasn't a major issue but it does highlight that the lack of a boot environment tie in like freebsd-update has is an issue. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d6c458220c659850680b4ba8df2dd676; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 17:30:33 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: New pkgbase packages on all mirrors [FreeBSD:15:armv7/base_*/ not updated yet; same for powerpc*'s; more] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <6B2776EC-026B-4ED7-AF15-FB58DB1E1ECE@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 10:30:22 -0700 Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <465C511A-0C14-43BE-8CDA-60EE61C97A69@yahoo.com> References: <6B2776EC-026B-4ED7-AF15-FB58DB1E1ECE@yahoo.com> To: Philip Paeps X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.69.30:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.30:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bznww5lvMz3wcY X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Aug 8, 2025, at 18:55, Mark Millard wrote: > Philip Paeps wrote on > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2025 15:25:46 UTC : >> >> Today's pkgbase builds are now on all the mirrors. >> >> A note: the cleanworld bit was set for all branches. You'll get new >> packages if you're using pkgbase on stable/14, releng/14.2 or >> releng/14.3 as well as main. >> >> Sorry for the noise today and the fortnight or so without builds. > > It is unclear if the builds I'm noting are trying > but broken or what. It may be not your problem to > deal with at all. > > But, the evidence that is publicly available does > not allow me to figure out much for routing notes. > > FYI: > > FreeBSD:15:armv7/base_latest/ > > FreeBSD:15:amd64/base_weekly/ > FreeBSD:15:arm64/base_weekly/ > FreeBSD:15:armv7/base_weekly/ > > (Those last 3 just might be based on how they are > scheduled for updates for all I know.) > > It is less obvious to me what the status is supposed > to be for: > > FreeBSD:15:powerpc*/base_latest/ > FreeBSD:15:powerpc*/base_weekly/ > > But they are also not from August as stands. base_latest/ has progressed. For base_latest/ , only https://pkg.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:15:powerpc/base_latest/?C=M&O=D still does not show August dates. The probably(?) expected status for: FreeBSD:15:*/base_weekly/ is to still predate August --and they do. === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Sat Aug 9 18:39:18 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzqSb3S3jz646d2; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 18:39:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) Received: from prime.gushi.org (prime.gushi.org [IPv6:2620:137:6000:10::142]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) client-digest SHA384) (Client CN "prime.gushi.org", Issuer "E6" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzqSZ6386z446C; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 18:39:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple ([IPv6:2001:500:6b:200:c000:0:0:a]) (authenticated bits=0) by prime.gushi.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPSA id 579IdXZA010642 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 9 Aug 2025 18:39:34 GMT (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 prime.gushi.org 579IdXZA010642 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gushi.org; s=prime2014; t=1754764774; bh=oEkjtmzlShGu34SxKZHV1w3N1ovWrSJ8ilndxyEk6ck=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; z=Subject:=20Re:=20HEADS-UP:=20pkgbase=20pkg=20upgrade=20breaks=20s ystems=20Re:=20after=20updating=0D=0A=20to=20latest,=20pkg=20base= 20segfaults=20and=20leaves=20me=20unbootable|From:=20"Dan=20Mahone y=20(Ports)"=20|In-Reply-To:=20|Date:=20Sat,=209=20Aug=202025=2011:39:18=2 0-0700|Cc:=20Florian=20Smeets=20,=0D=0A=20freebsd- pkgbase@freebsd.org,=0D=0A=20freebsd-current@freebsd.org|Reference s:=20=0D=0A=20<582 d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz>=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20<614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed90 7230aa3@smeets.xyz>=0D=0A=20|To:=20Lexi=20Winter=20; b=dVJXqbGdnncBV4tpDMrQsoP9Z5AZn04qd6YaCSvNZOM6+Zr28t+48LyFfZsm3I7U9 J8ztRxekNk/G+O/jqTZzcOuC9Kk+78pVunShgQ3+JEo7G4XuGUR9fIgCl28MuYL229 3xg4JVUtwh7/96tPrh2L7kb8wkUkgf+MxNujVU1115ntoHEjMRzIJYZXBNGV8XnxYN v1MGqAPpStHhOArn6LXPwG+CmFHOaLYgzQE0e9putDojD1gJw5H2eOHtWIpgSJu28r /ZqVJKilp9pagnrOK8hnTqLLIt2aXyG28KsAZ7XDC5DvNWaJ4TzXzv1rOxQQ2vLXzc F9/VzagGibJ4w== X-Authentication-Warning: prime.gushi.org: Host [IPv6:2001:500:6b:200:c000:0:0:a] claimed to be smtpclient.apple Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3863.100.1\)) Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable From: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:39:18 -0700 Cc: Florian Smeets , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1E6C17B9-2089-4E66-B524-2F819E22D10C@gushi.org> References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> <614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed907230aa3@smeets.xyz> To: Lexi Winter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3863.100.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzqSZ6386z446C X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:393507, ipnet:2620:137:6000::/44, country:US] > On Aug 9, 2025, at 5:45=E2=80=AFAM, Lexi Winter = wrote: >=20 > Florian Smeets: >> I uploaded the important part of /var/log/messages here >> https://people.freebsd.org/~flo/pkg-upgrade-20250808.txt> >=20 > Aug 8 23:26:03 rp64 kernel: pid 18424 (pkg), jid 0, uid 0: exited on = signal 11 (core dumped) >=20 > are you able to get a backtrace from this core? For me, the cored program is Aug 8 20:38:58 poudriere kernel: : pid = 21537 (pkg), jid 0, uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) https://users.isc.org/~dmahoney/pkg.core Please let me know when it's no longer needed, I don't like leaving this = file around. -Dan= From nobody Sat Aug 9 19:06:25 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzr4c55nPz649DK; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 19:07:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pat@patmaddox.com) Received: from fhigh-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.152]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzr4b3GK2z4722; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 19:07:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pat@patmaddox.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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Sat, 9 Aug 2025 15:07:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: T3e9ca0f36eb84e30 Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:06:25 -0700 From: "Pat Maddox" To: "David Chisnall" , "Santiago Martinez" Cc: vermaden , "Sulev-Madis Silber" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Message-Id: <5468c172-359f-4cdc-b142-7be1a5d70f16@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.03 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.938]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[patmaddox.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[patmaddox.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.152:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:AU]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pat]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[interia.pl,ketas.si.pri.ee,freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[patmaddox.com:+,messagingengine.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzr4b3GK2z4722 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Fri, Aug 8, 2025, at 7:20 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 8 Aug 2025, at 15:02, Santiago Martinez wrote: >> This is the same we have today. No extra complexity or confusion, act= ually it is quite simple , if you want to touch your base system just ex= plicitly targeting it ( what we do today with FreeBSD-update) > > What is the reason that you would want to install updates for packages=20 > built by ports and *not* want to install updates to the base system? I don't have to reboot my system after upgrading third-party software. I= may have to after updating the base system. Also, when something breaks, it's usually because something changed. If = I can compartmentalize the changes, I can better understand what causes = an issue. The OS is a bigger, more involved dependency than third-party software. = I think about them on different cycles, I want to control them on differ= ent cycles. > Currently, you need to do these separately because they are managed by=20 > two separate tools, but that=E2=80=99s an accident. It was never a de= liberate=20 > usability choice to have different ways of updating different parts of=20 > the system. Fixing this is one of the goals of pkgbase. I think this conflates the mechanism and policy a bit. Before pkgbase, the default freebsd policy is to upgrade base and third-= party separately. Perhaps that was an accidental outcome of them using d= ifferent mechanisms, I don't know. But it's been that way for a long, lo= ng time. Thus people talking about POLA. pkgbase introduces a new mechanism for updating base. Now what we're see= ing is two camps of what the default policy should be: - camp A says retain the default freebsd policy of updating base and thi= rd-party separately - camp B says change the default freebsd policy to updating them all tog= ether Hopefully without making things too confusing, I think people are also t= alking past each other a bit because there's a conflict between the hist= orical policy of base/third-party, and pkg. Because we could also say: - camp A says change the default pkg policy to account for base/third-pa= rty separation - camp B says retain the default pkg policy to operate on all packages In short, based on the proposals I've seen here, there's a tension: eith= er retain freebsd default policy and change pkg default policy, or vice = versa. Maybe there's a way of resolving the tension, or maybe the projec= t just needs to pick one and move on. >> Nothing stops the user from upgrading base (target base) then upgradi= ng the rest. Or to have a target that is =E2=80=9Call=E2=80=9D. > > This is still possible with pkgbase. If you want to stage things,=20 > simply use the `-r` flag. But when do you *actively want* that? Same as before: I want to be able to answer, do two versions of third-pa= rty software run on a single known version of FreeBSD? Likewise, does on= e version of third-party software run on multiple known versions of Free= BSD? > Every upgrade flow I have on every FreeBSD machine I use is simplified=20 > by pkgbase. Having fewer tools is a usability win. Having a single=20 > command upgrade everything is a usability win. If you *want to*=20 > upgrade only some things, that=E2=80=99s one extra command-line flag. That's perfectly reasonable to me. I guess the core question is: why change the established policy of updat= ing base and third-party separately, and require users to use a flag to = retain it? Why not retain the policy, and require users to use a flag to= update both separately? - Because it's so inherently superior to the old way that it should be t= he default, and people who want the old way just need to read UPDATING t= o know the tweaks to make? - Because doing so would make the semantics of `pkg` too confusing? So w= e accept the tradeoff of changing established upgrade policy, and again = people need to be familiar with UPDATING? - Other reasons? pkgbase seems like a fine mechanism for upgrading base. The issue at han= d seems to be that the current approach changes the default freebsd upgr= ade policy in a significant way. 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Sat, 9 Aug 2025 15:19:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: T3e9ca0f36eb84e30 Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:19:04 -0700 From: "Pat Maddox" To: "Brandon Allbery" , "DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums Administrator" Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "FreeBSD CURRENT" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Message-Id: <90f83695-286f-4e95-b2a4-98e1cae5da4e@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> <81470e1f-5a91-453b-a1aa-20a7e9fb8855@FreeBSD.org> <33CC4995-5B1D-4640-A5B0-2E7AD599D5BA@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.54 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.948]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[patmaddox.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[patmaddox.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.152:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[patmaddox.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:AU]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pat]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzrLs1mJJz4Bqb X-Spamd-Bar: -- On Fri, Aug 8, 2025, at 8:44 AM, Brandon Allbery wrote: > On Fri, Aug 8, 2025 at 11:30=E2=80=AFAM DutchDaemon - FreeBSD Forums=20 > Administrator wrote: >> (trying to see the upside) > > As stated earlier in the thread: embedded hardware which wants as=20 > minimal a base system as they can get away with. The flip side of the=20 > all-encompassing base system is that it's *big*. And grown considerabl= y=20 > since the early days, making the early-days management of base a=20 > problem now. I understand where you're coming from. It's also doable today, right? Yo= u set the knobs you want in src.conf and make.conf, and you get a smalle= r base system. I assume this is reasonable for people doing custom embed= ded hardware systems. Fine-grained packages makes it more convenient to do this, without havin= g to build base yourself. One question I have is, does this make things = more broadly effective? One of the reasons I came back to FreeBSD is precisely because in Linux = container land, I had no idea what the system was running. The OS could = be alpine or debian. Someone could have decided that `ps` shouldn't be i= nstalled (true story, that was fun to debug). Core utils are installed w= ith busybox, so grep flags match neither GNU nor BSD, and scripts break. Today, I can say "It's a FreeBSD system, I know this." [1] I immediately= know what its base capabilities are, and what its enhanced capabilities= are through third-party software. I suppose that will remain true, the = only thing being that it will have fewer base capabilities out of the bo= x. Additional capabilities then behave more like third-party software, j= ust provided and tested by the project. Pat [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DdFUlAQZB9Ng From nobody Sat Aug 9 19:24:21 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzrSb1L2Wz64C8p; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 19:24:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pat@patmaddox.com) Received: from fout-a2-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a2-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.145]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzrSZ2Zp2z4FXH; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 19:24:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pat@patmaddox.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=patmaddox.com header.s=fm2 header.b=pgII6lau; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b="S 066xfE"; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pat@patmaddox.com designates 103.168.172.145 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pat@patmaddox.com; 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Sat, 9 Aug 2025 15:24:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: T3e9ca0f36eb84e30 Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2025 12:24:21 -0700 From: "Pat Maddox" To: "David Chisnall" , "Santiago Martinez" Cc: vermaden , "Sulev-Madis Silber" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Message-Id: <54898afa-183b-4b39-9e4b-d44c461289c1@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5468c172-359f-4cdc-b142-7be1a5d70f16@app.fastmail.com> References: <79429D6B-7948-4D27-9F14-664CC075547A@FreeBSD.org> <7D0CD326-0CB0-41F0-99C2-BFEB9F4DC1EA@FreeBSD.org> <5468c172-359f-4cdc-b142-7be1a5d70f16@app.fastmail.com> Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.879]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[patmaddox.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[patmaddox.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27:c]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.145:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:AU]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pat]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[interia.pl,ketas.si.pri.ee,freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[patmaddox.com:+,messagingengine.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzrSZ2Zp2z4FXH X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Sat, Aug 9, 2025, at 12:06 PM, Pat Maddox wrote: > On Fri, Aug 8, 2025, at 7:20 AM, David Chisnall wrote: >> Every upgrade flow I have on every FreeBSD machine I use is simplifie= d=20 >> by pkgbase. Having fewer tools is a usability win. Having a single=20 >> command upgrade everything is a usability win. If you *want to*=20 >> upgrade only some things, that=E2=80=99s one extra command-line flag. > > That's perfectly reasonable to me. > > I guess the core question is: why change the established policy of=20 > updating base and third-party separately, and require users to use a=20 > flag to retain it? Why not retain the policy, and require users to use=20 > a flag to update both separately? This should be: "why change the established policy of updating base and = third-party separately, and require users to use a flag to retain it? Wh= y not retain the policy, and require users to use a flag to update both = **together**?" > - Because it's so inherently superior to the old way that it should be=20 > the default, and people who want the old way just need to read UPDATIN= G=20 > to know the tweaks to make? > - Because doing so would make the semantics of `pkg` too confusing? So=20 > we accept the tradeoff of changing established upgrade policy, and=20 > again people need to be familiar with UPDATING? > - Other reasons? > > pkgbase seems like a fine mechanism for upgrading base. The issue at=20 > hand seems to be that the current approach changes the default freebsd=20 > upgrade policy in a significant way. From nobody Sun Aug 10 00:18:45 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzyzt54c2z64l77; Sun, 10 Aug 2025 00:18:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from flo@smeets.xyz) Received: from mail-out.smeets.xyz (mail-out.smeets.xyz [88.99.165.53]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzyzs2QmNz3hMT; Sun, 10 Aug 2025 00:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from flo@smeets.xyz) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=smeets.xyz header.s=dkim header.b=vKurOb6p; dkim=pass header.d=smeets.xyz header.s=ed25519_2022 header.b=BkLVfYnG; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of flo@smeets.xyz designates 88.99.165.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=flo@smeets.xyz; 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h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=M8TX5q9F2Go0Sd6tA8bZ/EpBo9mAySJdtjFwMhBwKvg=; b=BkLVfYnGAZgZkPjrkCSOQr0IA7WGYy+tXcOS3ubDFOQ9Qou3g+vk0cjOPdKjxP72qKAfYe iPDA81S0DE91RKCQ== Message-ID: <9863eeae-4f9e-42b8-ad38-dfe629840d63@smeets.xyz> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2025 02:18:45 +0200 List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable Content-Language: en-US To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> 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RECEIVED_HELO_LOCALHOST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[flo]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[smeets.xyz:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:+,4:~,5:~]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzyzs2QmNz3hMT X-Spamd-Bar: ---- This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------GHuJtrRZFAyPQe0dzK9qswMJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------SCLGnewREx7o3X9ShKyRkzvF"; protected-headers="v1" From: Florian Smeets To: Dan Mahoney , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <9863eeae-4f9e-42b8-ad38-dfe629840d63@smeets.xyz> Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> <614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed907230aa3@smeets.xyz> In-Reply-To: --------------SCLGnewREx7o3X9ShKyRkzvF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------Dz8UFsFA0tlP1G0p2ssbtn1Z" --------------Dz8UFsFA0tlP1G0p2ssbtn1Z Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gMDkuMDguMjUgMTQ6NDUsIExleGkgV2ludGVyIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBGbG9yaWFuIFNtZWV0 czoNCj4+IEkgdXBsb2FkZWQgdGhlIGltcG9ydGFudCBwYXJ0IG9mIC92YXIvbG9nL21lc3Nh Z2VzIGhlcmUNCj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vcGVvcGxlLmZyZWVic2Qub3JnL35mbG8vcGtnLXVwZ3Jh ZGUtMjAyNTA4MDgudHh0Pg0KPiANCj4gQXVnICA4IDIzOjI2OjAzIHJwNjQga2VybmVsOiBw aWQgMTg0MjQgKHBrZyksIGppZCAwLCB1aWQgMDogZXhpdGVkIG9uIHNpZ25hbCAxMSAoY29y ZSBkdW1wZWQpDQo+IA0KPiBhcmUgeW91IGFibGUgdG8gZ2V0IGEgYmFja3RyYWNlIGZyb20g dGhpcyBjb3JlPw0KDQpUaGF0J3MgYWxsIEkgd2FzIGFibGUgdG8gZ2V0Lg0KDQoobGxkYikg YnQgYWxsDQoqIHRocmVhZCAjMSwgbmFtZSA9ICdwa2cnLCBzdG9wIHJlYXNvbiA9IHNpZ25h 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2iZxyWePZEl5vpr5WPjFJDUcof5Cvo0195POsaJvOa5QfZqqWgRcrjXE3McJstPc/VwO69 M1IuiSBKD8IqfGUaNyr+4gfv5QsNXcyg9U4nzZ25jgPqXDi6GiUham6UgPXXJg== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1532) id 174B11FC25; Sun, 10 Aug 2025 00:53:04 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2025 01:53:03 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Cc: Florian Smeets , Dan Mahoney Subject: Re: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Florian Smeets , Dan Mahoney References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> <614fc6f3-0bbd-47a0-8f7b-9ed907230aa3@smeets.xyz> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="aa7qaBUKFKWgSemZ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --aa7qaBUKFKWgSemZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline thanks to Dan and Florian, i believe i've identified the bug here and i filed a pkg PR: https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2496 unfortunately i don't know enough about pkg to know what the right fix is, so this might need to wait until bapt is back to look at it. note that (as i think i mentioned earlier) this problem should not have broken anyone's systems: that's a separate issue which should be fixed soon. --aa7qaBUKFKWgSemZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaJftbAAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YIC5AQDoMk9sd5kBB9dU9E/XiMKwXbPY4WR/JneiYpzsTG4utwD/QKapK8Swe8k1 nBq1fEMHwko2xH3EVnH0eX8CcnkbzgM= =X4a0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --aa7qaBUKFKWgSemZ-- From nobody Sun Aug 10 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4276eb34f2f1666dc36c4fb3a7ee667e; Sun, 10 Aug 2025 05:07:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: FYI: pkgbase and pkg issue details that came up during my pkgbase system upgrade (main-amd64) Message-Id: <679934CE-CA3D-4B75-9393-E80CFEA45C91@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 22:07:08 -0700 Cc: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org To: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) References: <679934CE-CA3D-4B75-9393-E80CFEA45C91.ref@yahoo.com> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.82:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.82:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4c05Ns180Tz3HHd X-Spamd-Bar: --- These notes are very narrowly focused on specific things that happened. I do not necessarily present them all in the order that they occurred. I made no use of "force". (I normally do not.) The context has: # grep BACKUP /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf BACKUP_LIBRARIES=3Dtrue I first dealt with the kernel installations and the reboot using the kernel.GENERIC-NODEBUG kernel. That got me to: # uname -apKU FreeBSD 7950X3D-ZFS 15.0-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 15.0-PRERELEASE = main-n279519-7a9834041c91 GENERIC-NODEBUG amd64 amd64 1500059 1500048 The sequence for that was, in part: # pkg-static install -F -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-kernel-*' = FreeBSD-src-sys # pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-kernel-*' = FreeBSD-src-sys # shutdown -r now (The context does not involve a FreeBSD-dtb .) I then used what is likely an unusual sequence for the rest of the base package updating: # pkg-static install -F -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-*' # pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-src*' # pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-*' That last eventually stopped with: [580/1170] Deleting files for pkcs11-helper-1.29.0_3: 100% pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory pkg-static: Cannot delete pkg itself without force flag At this point the context had the property: pkg-static: Unable to determine the ABI, none of the ABI_FILEs can be = read. So I continued with (no use of 'env' as it was "not found"): # ABI=3DFreeBSD:15:amd64 pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g = 'FreeBSD-*' With that for context, my various notes are . . . ) pkg ended up disabled (but not removed) : I naturally got the notice: pkg-static: Cannot delete pkg itself without force flag and it naturally stopped because of it. But I unnaturally got the status (presuming I'm supposed to be able to use pkg at that point): # pkg check -sa ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libutil.so.9" not found, required by "pkg" I had to use pkg-static explicitly (or explicitly cause it to be used where it normally is not). Note: poudriere-devel uses a mix of pkg-static and pkg and so does not work in this context. I modified poudriere-devel for it to be able to later do the likes of: # poudriere jail -j release-amd64 -u (where release-amd64 is based on pkgbase). Note: As of yet, an updated pkg that avoids libutil.so.9 was not available from the distribution servers. Note: pkg-static can try to run other programs. Thus it need not be fully functional, despite its static status. I did not explore this issue. ) port-package removals vs. POST-DEINSTALL : I got 5 instances of: pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory Specifically: 565/1170] Deinstalling coreutils-9.7... [565/1170] Deleting files for coreutils-9.7: 100% pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory . . . [568/1170] Deinstalling git-2.50.0... [568/1170] Deleting files for git-2.50.0: 100% pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory . . . [570/1170] Deinstalling llvm20-20.1.6... [570/1170] Deleting files for llvm20-20.1.6: 100% pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory . . . [572/1170] Deinstalling openvpn-2.6.14... [572/1170] Deleting files for openvpn-2.6.14: 100% pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory . . . [580/1170] Deinstalling pkcs11-helper-1.29.0_3... [580/1170] Deleting files for pkcs11-helper-1.29.0_3: 100% pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory It appeared to me that POST-DEINSTALL became unavailable too early relative to when port-packages were being deleted. (Wording not trying to determines what moves where to get the proper order.) ) base-package upgrades vs. POST-INSTALL : I got: [402/513] Upgrading FreeBSD-caroot from 15.snap20250313075117 to = 15.snap20250808125411... [402/513] Extracting FreeBSD-caroot-15.snap20250808125411: 100% pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-INSTALL:No such file or directory It appeared to me that POST-INSTALL became available too late relative to when base-packages were being upgraded that try to use POST-INSTALL . (Wording not trying to determines what moves where to get the proper order.) This was from the command after pkg was not deleted: # ABI=3DFreeBSD:15:amd64 pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g = 'FreeBSD-*' Other information . . . Note: I ignore here dealing with *.pkgsave and the like. # shutdown -r now got me to a world with system processes based on: # uname -apKU FreeBSD 7950X3D-ZFS 15.0-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 15.0-PRERELEASE = main-n279519-7a9834041c91 GENERIC-NODEBUG amd64 amd64 1500059=20 pkg still had the property: ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libutil.so.9" not found, required by "pkg" To deal with port-packages, I used: # pkg-static install -rFreeBSD `cat ~/origins/amd64-pkgs.txt` # pkg-static upgrade -rFreeBSD (I'll ignore dealing with packages conflicts here.) Note: main-amd64's distribution server for port-packages was missing poudriere-devel so it was not listed in that amd64-pkgs.txt file. The poudiere-devel patches for avoiding pkg use and using pkg-static instead are as shown by: diff -ru /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh = /usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh --- /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh 2025-06-13 = 18:13:29.000000000 -0700 +++ /usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh 2025-08-09 20:19:24.112622000 = -0700 @@ -230,8 +230,8 @@ export REPOS_DIR PKG_DBDIR # Always need this from host. export ABI_FILE=3D"${WRKDIR}/world/usr/lib/crt1.o" - pkg -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes update >/dev/null || : - pkg rquery '%At %o@%Av %n-%v' | \ + pkg-static -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes update >/dev/null || : + pkg-static rquery '%At %o@%Av %n-%v' | \ awk -v pkglist=3D"${PACKAGELIST}" \ -f "${AWKPREFIX}/unique_pkgnames_from_flavored_origins.awk" rm -rf "${PKG_DBDIR:?}" "${REPOS_DIR:?}" @@ -248,10 +248,10 @@ enabled: true } -EOF - pkg -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world update ${PKG_QUIET} + pkg-static -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world update ${PKG_QUIET} msg "Installing base packages" while read line; do - pkg -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world install -r local ${PKG_QUIET} -y ${line} + pkg-static -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world install -r local ${PKG_QUIET} -y ${line} done < ${PKGBASELIST} rm ${WRKDIR:?}/world/etc/pkg/FreeBSD-base.conf msg "Base packages installed" @@ -572,7 +572,7 @@ export ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes SYSLOG=3Dno \ REPOS_DIR=3D"${WRKDIR}/world/tmp/" \ ABI_FILE=3D"${WRKDIR}/world/usr/lib/crt1.o" - pkg -r "${WRKDIR:?}/world/" install pkg + pkg-static -r "${WRKDIR:?}/world/" install pkg convert_package_list "${PACKAGELIST}" | \ xargs pkg -r "${WRKDIR:?}/world/" install ) diff -ru /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh = /usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh --- /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh 2025-06-13 = 18:13:29.000000000 -0700 +++ /usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh 2025-08-09 = 20:18:57.636494000 -0700 @@ -634,7 +634,7 @@ *) local repokeypath=3D$(repo_key_path) =20 - pkg key --sign -t "${repokeytype}" = "${repokeypath}" < "${pkgfile}" \ + pkg-static key --sign -t "${repokeytype}" = "${repokeypath}" < "${pkgfile}" \ > "${pkgfile}.pubkeysig" ;; esac diff -ru /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh = /usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh --- /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh 2025-06-13 = 18:13:29.000000000 -0700 +++ /usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh 2025-08-09 20:20:23.447656000 = -0700 @@ -375,9 +375,9 @@ pkgbase) VERSION=3D$(jget ${JAILNAME} version | cut -d '.' -f 1) [ -z "${ARCH}" ] && ARCH=3D$(jget ${JAILNAME} arch) - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -r "${JAILMNT}" update || \ + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -r "${JAILMNT}" update || \ err 1 "pkg update failed" - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -r "${JAILMNT}" upgrade -y || \ + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -r "${JAILMNT}" upgrade -y || \ err 1 "pkg upgrade failed" markfs clean ${JAILMNT} ;; @@ -927,12 +927,12 @@ } EOF =20 - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -r ${JAILMNT}/ update + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ update # Omit the man/debug/kernel/src and tests packages, unneeded for = us. - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -qCx = '^FreeBSD-.*' | grep -vE -- '-man|-dbg|-kernel-|-tests|-src-' | xargs = pkg -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -q = '^FreeBSD-src-sys' | xargs pkg -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r = ${JAILMNT}/ install -y + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -qCx '^FreeBSD-.*' | grep -vE -- = '-man|-dbg|-kernel-|-tests|-src-' | xargs pkg -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -q '^FreeBSD-src-sys' | xargs pkg -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y if [ -n "${KERNEL}" ]; then - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y FreeBSD-kernel-"${KERNEL}" || \ + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y FreeBSD-kernel-"${KERNEL}" || \ err 1 "Failed to install = FreeBSD-kernel-${KERNEL}" fi =20 Note: I have some other lines patched in /usr/local/share/poudriere/common.sh for other reasons (for my normal use). =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Sun Aug 10 08:30:31 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4c09vG29wKz648q3; Sun, 10 Aug 2025 08:30:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4c09vG1RZ8z3lnC; 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Sun, 10 Aug 2025 08:30:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from truckman@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2025 01:30:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Helge Oldach cc: Brandon Allbery , DutchDaemon@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <202508081619.578GJTKR028195@mp80.oldach.net> Message-ID: References: from Brandon Allbery at "8 Aug 2025 11:44:26" <202508081619.578GJTKR028195@mp80.oldach.net> List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Disposition: INLINE On 8 Aug, Helge Oldach wrote: > Brandon Allbery wrote on Fri, 08 Aug 2025 17:44:26 +0200 (CEST): >> As stated earlier in the thread: embedded hardware which wants as minimal a >> base system as they can get away with. The flip side of the >> all-encompassing base system is that it's *big*. And grown considerably >> since the early days, making the early-days management of base a problem >> now. > > Traditional tweaking of make.conf works almost as well. We have that > knob for low-end gear already; I know of several users happy with that > approach and not seeking a better (?) one. That works, but pretty much requires that you to do source upgrades. That is time consuming if you have a bunch of customized VMs to maintain, and is problematic if the target is small and low peformance. I recently retired an old single-core i386 machine with only 256 MB of RAM. It was still powerful enough for its daily work, but too difficult maintain. I have no idea how long it would take for buildworld. I didn't have another machine running the same OS release, and its network connectivity wasn't suitable for NFS mounting /usr/obj. What I did was set up a VM with that release on a host running -CURRENT. tweak src.conf on the VM to what I desired, and then do "make release". Then I fed the release artifacts to the scripts that generate the files for binary updates and uploaded those to a web server. Then I could run freebsd-update to update the target machine. This is not compatible with applying security fixes in a timely manner. > As long as building from source is still supported, it'll be fine. That's what I do with my -STABLE and -CURRENT machines. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 2c84b90e5d943f7cf69d6ff3f21eb30b; Sun, 10 Aug 2025 21:00:57 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: FYI: pkgbase and pkg issue details that came up during my pkgbase system upgrade (main-amd64) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2025 14:00:46 -0700 References: <679934CE-CA3D-4B75-9393-E80CFEA45C91@yahoo.com> To: FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <679934CE-CA3D-4B75-9393-E80CFEA45C91@yahoo.com> Message-Id: <72043E82-FBAA-41A3-9C60-C5BB131BEB32@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.147:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.147:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4c0VYD4LcCz3L8X X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Aug 9, 2025, at 22:07, Mark Millard wrote: > These notes are very narrowly focused on specific things that > happened. I do not necessarily present them all in the order > that they occurred. >=20 > I made no use of "force". (I normally do not.) >=20 > The context has: >=20 > # grep BACKUP /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf > BACKUP_LIBRARIES=3Dtrue >=20 >=20 > I first dealt with the kernel installations and the > reboot using the kernel.GENERIC-NODEBUG kernel. That > got me to: >=20 > # uname -apKU > FreeBSD 7950X3D-ZFS 15.0-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 15.0-PRERELEASE = main-n279519-7a9834041c91 GENERIC-NODEBUG amd64 amd64 1500059 1500048 >=20 > The sequence for that was, in part: >=20 > # pkg-static install -F -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-kernel-*' = FreeBSD-src-sys > # pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-kernel-*' = FreeBSD-src-sys > # shutdown -r now >=20 > (The context does not involve a FreeBSD-dtb .) >=20 >=20 > I then used what is likely an unusual sequence for the > rest of the base package updating: >=20 > # pkg-static install -F -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-*' > # pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-src*' > # pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g 'FreeBSD-*' >=20 > That last eventually stopped with: >=20 > [580/1170] Deleting files for pkcs11-helper-1.29.0_3: 100% > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory > pkg-static: Cannot delete pkg itself without force flag >=20 > At this point the context had the property: >=20 > pkg-static: Unable to determine the ABI, none of the ABI_FILEs can be = read. >=20 > So I continued with (no use of 'env' as it was "not found"): >=20 > # ABI=3DFreeBSD:15:amd64 pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g = 'FreeBSD-*' >=20 >=20 > With that for context, my various notes are . . . >=20 >=20 > ) pkg ended up disabled (but not removed) : >=20 > I naturally got the notice: >=20 > pkg-static: Cannot delete pkg itself without force flag >=20 > and it naturally stopped because of it. >=20 > But I unnaturally got the status (presuming I'm > supposed to be able to use pkg at that point): >=20 > # pkg check -sa > ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libutil.so.9" not found, required by "pkg" >=20 > I had to use pkg-static explicitly (or explicitly cause it > to be used where it normally is not). >=20 > Note: poudriere-devel uses a mix of pkg-static and pkg and so > does not work in this context. I modified poudriere-devel for > it to be able to later do the likes of: >=20 > # poudriere jail -j release-amd64 -u >=20 > (where release-amd64 is based on pkgbase). >=20 > Note: As of yet, an updated pkg that avoids libutil.so.9 was > not available from the distribution servers. >=20 > Note: pkg-static can try to run other programs. Thus it need > not be fully functional, despite its static status. I did not > explore this issue. >=20 >=20 > ) port-package removals vs. POST-DEINSTALL : >=20 > I got 5 instances of: >=20 > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory >=20 > Specifically: >=20 > 565/1170] Deinstalling coreutils-9.7... > [565/1170] Deleting files for coreutils-9.7: 100% > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory > . . . > [568/1170] Deinstalling git-2.50.0... > [568/1170] Deleting files for git-2.50.0: 100% > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory > . . . > [570/1170] Deinstalling llvm20-20.1.6... > [570/1170] Deleting files for llvm20-20.1.6: 100% > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory > . . . > [572/1170] Deinstalling openvpn-2.6.14... > [572/1170] Deleting files for openvpn-2.6.14: 100% > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory > . . . > [580/1170] Deinstalling pkcs11-helper-1.29.0_3... > [580/1170] Deleting files for pkcs11-helper-1.29.0_3: 100% > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-DEINSTALL:No such file or directory >=20 > It appeared to me that POST-DEINSTALL became unavailable > too early relative to when port-packages were being > deleted. (Wording not trying to determines what moves > where to get the proper order.) >=20 >=20 > ) base-package upgrades vs. POST-INSTALL : >=20 > I got: >=20 > [402/513] Upgrading FreeBSD-caroot from 15.snap20250313075117 to = 15.snap20250808125411... > [402/513] Extracting FreeBSD-caroot-15.snap20250808125411: 100% > pkg-static: Cannot runscript POST-INSTALL:No such file or directory >=20 > It appeared to me that POST-INSTALL became available > too late relative to when base-packages were being > upgraded that try to use POST-INSTALL . (Wording not > trying to determines what moves where to get the proper > order.) >=20 > This was from the command after pkg was not deleted: >=20 > # ABI=3DFreeBSD:15:amd64 pkg-static install -U -rFreeBSD-base -g = 'FreeBSD-*' >=20 >=20 > Other information . . . >=20 > Note: I ignore here dealing with *.pkgsave and the like. >=20 > # shutdown -r now >=20 > got me to a world with system processes based on: >=20 > # uname -apKU > FreeBSD 7950X3D-ZFS 15.0-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 15.0-PRERELEASE = main-n279519-7a9834041c91 GENERIC-NODEBUG amd64 amd64 1500059=20 >=20 > pkg still had the property: >=20 > ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libutil.so.9" not found, required by "pkg" >=20 >=20 > To deal with port-packages, I used: >=20 > # pkg-static install -rFreeBSD `cat ~/origins/amd64-pkgs.txt` > # pkg-static upgrade -rFreeBSD >=20 > (I'll ignore dealing with packages conflicts here.) >=20 > Note: main-amd64's distribution server for port-packages > was missing poudriere-devel so it was not listed in that > amd64-pkgs.txt file. >=20 > The poudiere-devel patches for avoiding pkg use and using > pkg-static instead are as shown by: >=20 > diff -ru /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh = /usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh > --- /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh 2025-06-13 = 18:13:29.000000000 -0700 > +++ /usr/local/share/poudriere/image.sh 2025-08-09 20:19:24.112622000 = -0700 > @@ -230,8 +230,8 @@ > export REPOS_DIR PKG_DBDIR > # Always need this from host. > export ABI_FILE=3D"${WRKDIR}/world/usr/lib/crt1.o" > - pkg -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes update >/dev/null || : > - pkg rquery '%At %o@%Av %n-%v' | \ > + pkg-static -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes update >/dev/null || : > + pkg-static rquery '%At %o@%Av %n-%v' | \ > awk -v pkglist=3D"${PACKAGELIST}" \ > -f "${AWKPREFIX}/unique_pkgnames_from_flavored_origins.awk" > rm -rf "${PKG_DBDIR:?}" "${REPOS_DIR:?}" > @@ -248,10 +248,10 @@ > enabled: true > } > -EOF > - pkg -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world update ${PKG_QUIET} > + pkg-static -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world update ${PKG_QUIET} > msg "Installing base packages" > while read line; do > - pkg -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world install -r local ${PKG_QUIET} -y ${line} > + pkg-static -o ABI_FILE=3D"${mnt}/usr/lib/crt1.o" -o = REPOS_DIR=3D${WRKDIR}/world/etc/pkg/ -o ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes -r = ${WRKDIR:?}/world install -r local ${PKG_QUIET} -y ${line} > done < ${PKGBASELIST} > rm ${WRKDIR:?}/world/etc/pkg/FreeBSD-base.conf > msg "Base packages installed" > @@ -572,7 +572,7 @@ > export ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes SYSLOG=3Dno \ > REPOS_DIR=3D"${WRKDIR}/world/tmp/" \ > ABI_FILE=3D"${WRKDIR}/world/usr/lib/crt1.o" > - pkg -r "${WRKDIR:?}/world/" install pkg > + pkg-static -r "${WRKDIR:?}/world/" install pkg > convert_package_list "${PACKAGELIST}" | \ > xargs pkg -r "${WRKDIR:?}/world/" install > ) > diff -ru /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh = /usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh > --- /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh 2025-06-13 = 18:13:29.000000000 -0700 > +++ /usr/local/share/poudriere/include/pkg.sh 2025-08-09 = 20:18:57.636494000 -0700 > @@ -634,7 +634,7 @@ > *) > local repokeypath=3D$(repo_key_path) >=20 > - pkg key --sign -t "${repokeytype}" "${repokeypath}" < "${pkgfile}" \ > + pkg-static key --sign -t "${repokeytype}" "${repokeypath}" < = "${pkgfile}" \ > > "${pkgfile}.pubkeysig" > ;; > esac > diff -ru /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh = /usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh > --- /mnt/usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh 2025-06-13 = 18:13:29.000000000 -0700 > +++ /usr/local/share/poudriere/jail.sh 2025-08-09 20:20:23.447656000 = -0700 > @@ -375,9 +375,9 @@ > pkgbase) > VERSION=3D$(jget ${JAILNAME} version | cut -d '.' -f 1) > [ -z "${ARCH}" ] && ARCH=3D$(jget ${JAILNAME} arch) > - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r "${JAILMNT}" update || \ > + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -r "${JAILMNT}" update || \ > err 1 "pkg update failed" > - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r "${JAILMNT}" upgrade -y || \ > + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" = -r "${JAILMNT}" upgrade -y || \ > err 1 "pkg upgrade failed" > markfs clean ${JAILMNT} > ;; > @@ -927,12 +927,12 @@ > } > EOF >=20 > - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -r ${JAILMNT}/ update > + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ update > # Omit the man/debug/kernel/src and tests packages, unneeded for us. > - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -qCx = '^FreeBSD-.*' | grep -vE -- '-man|-dbg|-kernel-|-tests|-src-' | xargs = pkg -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y > - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -q = '^FreeBSD-src-sys' | xargs pkg -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r = ${JAILMNT}/ install -y > + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -qCx '^FreeBSD-.*' | grep -vE -- = '-man|-dbg|-kernel-|-tests|-src-' | xargs pkg -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y > + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ search -q '^FreeBSD-src-sys' | xargs pkg -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y > if [ -n "${KERNEL}" ]; then > - pkg -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o = ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y = FreeBSD-kernel-"${KERNEL}" || \ > + pkg-static -o IGNORE_OSVERSION=3Dyes -o = REPOS_DIR=3D"${JAILMNT}/etc/pkg" -o ABI=3D"FreeBSD:${VERSION}:${ARCH}" = -r ${JAILMNT}/ install -y FreeBSD-kernel-"${KERNEL}" || \ > err 1 "Failed to install FreeBSD-kernel-${KERNEL}" > fi >=20 >=20 >=20 > Note: I have some other lines patched in > /usr/local/share/poudriere/common.sh for > other reasons (for my normal use). poudriere-devel has an internal /usr/local/libexec/poudriere/cpdup that it can try to use. But: [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail...ld-elf.so.1: Shared object = "libcrypto.so.30" not found, required by "cpdup" Error: (14603) /usr/local/share/poudriere/bulk.sh:_do_clone:255: set -e = error: status =3D 1 So, overall, more than just pkg -> pkg-static use is involved in getting poudriere-devel to work. So far, dealing with pkg-static refrences, possibly /usr/local/sbin/pkg = , and with /usr/local/libexec/poudriere/cpdup seems to allow poudriere builders to run. Note: poudriere also had some Makefile notation to adjust after the (b)make update. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com