From nobody Fri Dec 5 20:17:42 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-security@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dNN3N5kwhz6Jf1y for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2025 20:17:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Wismos@proton.me) Received: from mail-24427.protonmail.ch (mail-24427.protonmail.ch [109.224.244.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dNN3K74vLz3kYQ for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2025 20:17:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Wismos@proton.me) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=proton.me header.s=protonmail header.b=NE6D7rrs; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=proton.me; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Wismos@proton.me designates 109.224.244.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Wismos@proton.me DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ravel.localnet (aclermont-ferrand-653-1-222-123.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.14.66.123]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: olce/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dNRjB1NK3zZKH; Fri, 05 Dec 2025 23:02:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) From: Olivier Certner To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Wismos@proton.me Subject: Re: Regarding PAM support for mdo Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2025 00:02:14 +0100 Message-ID: <24612612.gYbqZ1YImA@ravel> In-Reply-To: <5yH9o0uW628frXojj_IKQVxRqtYT0Z9ZrqQp8eAbNXa3iuQoTT-Nm2zN_yNTc89dzFPvnrYkIIkL5yjmmFZ1z9FmaGpM7_sYJ0t1Ho2ktr0=@proton.me> References: <5yH9o0uW628frXojj_IKQVxRqtYT0Z9ZrqQp8eAbNXa3iuQoTT-Nm2zN_yNTc89dzFPvnrYkIIkL5yjmmFZ1z9FmaGpM7_sYJ0t1Ho2ktr0=@proton.me> List-Id: Security issues List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-security List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart55254552.J2yNMGElB9"; micalg="pgp-sha384"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --nextPart55254552.J2yNMGElB9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Olivier Certner To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Wismos@proton.me Subject: Re: Regarding PAM support for mdo Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2025 00:02:14 +0100 Message-ID: <24612612.gYbqZ1YImA@ravel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hello, > so i would be really glad to know if the reason were some blockers or security wise issues i am not aware of Yes, there was a reason: It doesn't fit in the current mac_do(4)/mdo(1) framework in a straightforward manner. mdo(1) is not a setuid executable (a feature), which basically means that PAM, which expects to be root, is unlikely to function correctly. E.g., it's impossible on FreeBSD for a non-root user to validate some password against the database, as 'master.passwd' is only readable by 'root'. CAPSICUM programs have the related problem of not having enough privileges for some operations, but their way out, libcasper(3), currently wouldn't solve our problem (still not enough privileges to access the password database) and code would have to be written there for some PAM functions to be accessible through it (it's mostly and perhaps only the authentication phase that could interest us in PAM). Using PAM also means starting to rely on the filesystem hierarchy, with implications in terms of security when leveraging jails and chroots (confused deputy issues, as described in August on hackers@). Currently, mdo(1) does not read any configuration file at all, and thus is not subject to such problems. They are however easy to avoid (by leveraging P2_NO_NEW_PRIVS; at the price of functionality restrictions). What is your goal exactly? Having a simple program like doas(1) replacing sudo(8)? I'm evoking a number of possible mac_do(4)/mdo(1) evolutions in an article in the next FreeBSD Journal issue. One may be to have another executable, with the setuid mode bit set this time, that could leverage PAM with full privileges, and drop them the rest of the time until calling setcred() (this code could be share with mdo(1)). Another is to have an ad-hoc authentication mechanism, but then we would still need a mechanism to safely read a password database, e.g., communicate with a privileged server, which still remains to be written. There are number of other solutions with different advantages/drawbacks. The following steps are unclear, and mainly depend on user needs/feedbacks. Thanks and regards. -- Olivier Certner --nextPart55254552.J2yNMGElB9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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<912767d4-9cf1-43b1-b6e9-66fed003d8e9@spmzt.net> To: Wismos@proton.me Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, olce@freebsd.org From: Seyed Pouria Mousavizadeh Tehrani Organization: SPMZT - AS214145 In-Reply-To: <912767d4-9cf1-43b1-b6e9-66fed003d8e9@spmzt.net> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <912767d4-9cf1-43b1-b6e9-66fed003d8e9@spmzt.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------vHXrw9MIoe0h5RL0LvnbnAPv" X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[spmzt.net,quarantine]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/mixed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[spmzt.net:s=mail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.10)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:+,4:~,5:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34927, ipnet:193.148.248.0/24, country:CH]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[spmzt.net:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-security@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dNcjK2H49z3gMK This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------vHXrw9MIoe0h5RL0LvnbnAPv Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------jaiAeZP22d48I4SY27laD95H"; protected-headers="v1" Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2025 09:17:42 +0330 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Regarding PAM support for mdo Content-Language: en-US, fa-IR References: <912767d4-9cf1-43b1-b6e9-66fed003d8e9@spmzt.net> To: Wismos@proton.me Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org, olce@freebsd.org From: Seyed Pouria Mousavizadeh Tehrani Organization: SPMZT - AS214145 In-Reply-To: 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Hi,

so i would be really gla=
d to know if the reason were some blockers or security wise issues i am n=
ot aware of
Yes, there was a reason: I=
t doesn't fit in the current mac_do(4)/mdo(1) framework in a straightforw=
ard manner.

mdo(1) is not a setuid executable (a feature), which basically means that=
 PAM, which expects to be root, is unlikely to function correctly.  E.g.,=
 it's impossible on FreeBSD for a non-root user to validate some password=
 against the database, as 'master.passwd' is only readable by 'root'.  CA=
PSICUM programs have the related problem of not having enough privileges =
for some operations, but their way out, libcasper(3), currently wouldn't =
solve our problem (still not enough privileges to access the password dat=
abase) and code would have to be written there for some PAM functions to =
be accessible through it (it's mostly and perhaps only the authentication=
 phase that could interest us in PAM).

Using PAM also means starting to rely on the filesystem hierarchy, with i=
mplications in terms of security when leveraging jails and chroots (confu=
sed deputy issues, as described in August on hackers@).  Currently, mdo(1=
) does not read any configuration file at all, and thus is not subject to=
 such problems.  They are however easy to avoid (by leveraging P2_NO_NEW_=
PRIVS; at the price of functionality restrictions).

What is your goal exactly?  Having a simple program like doas(1) replacin=
g sudo(8)?  I'm evoking a number of possible mac_do(4)/mdo(1) evolutions =
in an article in the next FreeBSD Journal issue.  One may be to have anot=
her executable, with the setuid mode bit set this time, that could levera=
ge PAM with full privileges, and drop them the rest of the time until cal=
ling setcred() (this code could be share with mdo(1)).  Another is to hav=
e an ad-hoc authentication mechanism, but then we would still need a mech=
anism to safely read a password database, e.g., communicate with a privil=
eged server, which still remains to be written.  There are number of othe=
r solutions with different advantages/drawbacks.

The following steps are unclear, and mainly depend on user needs/feedback=
s.
As a user of mac_do(4)/mdo(1), I strongly believe the current implementation of mac_do(4) is perfect. IMHO and only IMHO, any change to mac_do should NOT break these expectations below to mac_do(4), which are the reasons we use it:
  • No dependency on a configuration file (sysctl-based)
  • No filesystem dependencies (including the setuid bit)
  • Jail inheritance support
  • Straightforward=C2=A0ucred-specific=C2=A0syntax
Community appreciate improvements to mac_do; however, any change that affects the above reasons will defeat mac_do=E2=80=99s main pu= rpose and turn it into kernel-to-system glue, making it of little to no value to its users compared with doas(1).

I have a few suggestions:

  • Any addition or improvement not related to ucred should be in another sysctl node to not break compatibility.
  • I found that learning current mac_do(4) after reading its manual requires try-and-error to understand its function. New users first have to unlearn things about doas(1)/sudo(8) and understand that mac_do is strongly explicit in its credentials. which is good.=C2=A0Therefore, it must be heavily documented considering it has a security effects too.

I believe the RFC1925 statement about protocol design is also applies to kernel modules.

(12) In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take=C2=A0away.

Thank you for working on mac_do.
--=20
spmzt
--------------NCzZKF0BhYUmTb0Ox0GipUes-- --------------jaiAeZP22d48I4SY27laD95H-- --------------vHXrw9MIoe0h5RL0LvnbnAPv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQSqt7cppfvJ816gj0lUwVnUeMwagAUCaTPDfgAKCRBUwVnUeMwa gNJKAQDlvRX8cP95mKaYEPBv78n6PNNEnlW30/MAZAe3hgz5PwD/VSQMrX2EX6Ja YViW7YHAbavGRGdiwomvwn6vowxyBgs= =r5TJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------vHXrw9MIoe0h5RL0LvnbnAPv-- From nobody Sat Dec 6 07:37:43 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-security@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dNg8335nMz6KHMl for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2025 07:37:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Wismos@proton.me) Received: from mail-43167.protonmail.ch (mail-43167.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.167]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dNg830bTRz3tlw for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2025 07:37:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Wismos@proton.me) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=protonmail; t=1765006667; x=1765265867; bh=zxd870DDcpK6rmpdZDkNFDm+Csvp56l+O3+9j0qRNDM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=SR4P5OLN9U1u5KcfNuW2KsgbE2n06HiXgRXQc90Ve/w8KaTqu1WwMLb+2ohXVHoMy gJtMR+n0ZqYcJ6iHMb4dMRIwomVPCTtU/1yBTCVZxzSMBpg1+KE9rj3BtSt18J+wEP kh3qWVhFM1+dGcP9AbvRX3Krv6jORzg3Dp07FTulvaIUbWT4YAQLGvQUk0uLBXUfG1 8k9kY+bew9cVUhUr93T2mVpc9+fuc4z+sSs18nIMnjmItUFOkkZcEV4fNElmNsFqBT TSrQMiFCeTf9pxmhaaruoCDwPKS+Cykdbs4TfI0n94Y2Z6U81kNtQ0Wdn2rHXW1wR4 hAmSwWIxB/iVw== Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2025 07:37:43 +0000 To: Olivier Certner From: Wismos@proton.me Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Regarding PAM support for mdo Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <24612612.gYbqZ1YImA@ravel> References: <5yH9o0uW628frXojj_IKQVxRqtYT0Z9ZrqQp8eAbNXa3iuQoTT-Nm2zN_yNTc89dzFPvnrYkIIkL5yjmmFZ1z9FmaGpM7_sYJ0t1Ho2ktr0=@proton.me> <24612612.gYbqZ1YImA@ravel> Feedback-ID: 51325846:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: a530407270fb6db59d979a7d2f472c6881a24a6a List-Id: Security issues List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-security List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dNg830bTRz3tlw Thanks for the info > Hello, >=20 > > so i would be really glad to know if the reason were some blockers or s= ecurity wise issues i am not aware of >=20 > Yes, there was a reason: It doesn't fit in the current mac_do(4)/mdo(1) f= ramework in a straightforward manner. >=20 > mdo(1) is not a setuid executable (a feature), which basically means that= PAM, which expects to be root, is unlikely to function correctly. E.g., it= 's impossible on FreeBSD for a non-root user to validate some password agai= nst the database, as 'master.passwd' is only readable by 'root'. CAPSICUM p= rograms have the related problem of not having enough privileges for some o= perations, but their way out, libcasper(3), currently wouldn't solve our pr= oblem (still not enough privileges to access the password database) and cod= e would have to be written there for some PAM functions to be accessible th= rough it (it's mostly and perhaps only the authentication phase that could = interest us in PAM). >=20 > Using PAM also means starting to rely on the filesystem hierarchy, with i= mplications in terms of security when leveraging jails and chroots (confuse= d deputy issues, as described in August on hackers@). Currently, mdo(1) doe= s not read any configuration file at all, and thus is not subject to such p= roblems. They are however easy to avoid (by leveraging P2_NO_NEW_PRIVS; at = the price of functionality restrictions). >=20 > What is your goal exactly? Having a simple program like doas(1) replacing= sudo(8)? I'm evoking a number of possible mac_do(4)/mdo(1) evolutions in a= n article in the next FreeBSD Journal issue. One may be to have another exe= cutable, with the setuid mode bit set this time, that could leverage PAM wi= th full privileges, and drop them the rest of the time until calling setcre= d() (this code could be share with mdo(1)). Another is to have an ad-hoc au= thentication mechanism, but then we would still need a mechanism to safely = read a password database, e.g., communicate with a privileged server, which= still remains to be written. There are number of other solutions with diff= erent advantages/drawbacks. >=20 > The following steps are unclear, and mainly depend on user needs/feedback= s. >=20 > Thanks and regards. >=20 > -- > Olivier Certner my goal is to either have an authentication prompt setup for every time a p= rocess from a certain uid is trying to change credentials or to have a some= form of blacklist/whitelist to only allow certain processes to be able to = change credentials from the response it's clear that a password based authentication prompt is= not ideal for mdo currently but perhaps the whitelist/blacklist may work if we were able to figure out = how to make it know which process to escalate without introducing reliance = on filesytem hierarchy,perhaps MAC/veriexec might be suitable to verify the= executable file allowed to change credentials? looking forward to your thoughts and thanks again From nobody Sun Dec 7 11:28:30 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-security@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPNCn1wl1z6KHQc for ; 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mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from tensor.andric.com (tensor.andric.com [87.251.56.140]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "tensor.andric.com", Issuer "E7" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: dim) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dPNMj093TzGs9; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 11:35:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtpclient.apple (bladnoch.home.andric.com [192.168.0.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A7DFA75179; Sun, 07 Dec 2025 12:35:27 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Security issues List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-security List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81.1.3\)) Subject: Re: Guidance on how to handle FreeBSD port vulnerability From: Dimitry Andric In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2025 12:35:27 +0100 Cc: "freebsd-security@FreeBSD.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <11DA25E7-8840-4182-995A-B976439C2E04@FreeBSD.org> References: To: Bacula-Web project maintainer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81.1.3) On 7 Dec 2025, at 12:28, Bacula-Web project maintainer = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hello there, >=20 > I'd need some help to tackle a known FreeBSD port vulnerability which = doesn't seem to be referenced on FreshPort.org. >=20 > The affected port is https://www.freshports.org/www/bacula-web/. >=20 > Also, I'd like to put some efforts to keep updated above ports as it = deserve some more "love". >=20 > An hints / link to documented process would be nice. Report a bug on https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/, the "Report an = update or defect to a port" link there is the most appropriate. If you = start the subject of the bug report with the string "www/bacula-web: " = it will automatically get assigned to the port maintainer, which at the = moment is ler@FreeBSD.org . -Dimitry