From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Sun Jan 15 00:13:28 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA03723 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:13:28 -0800 Received: (from pst@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA03707; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:13:24 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:13:24 -0800 From: Paul Traina Message-Id: <199501150813.AAA03707@freefall.cdrom.com> To: CVS-commiters, cvs-CVSROOT Subject: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk pst 95/01/15 00:13:23 Modified: . modules Log: added ngroff From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Sun Jan 15 00:56:36 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id AAA07347 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:56:36 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA07336; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:56:29 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA02830 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 15 Jan 1995 11:51:27 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 15 Jan 95 11:51:26 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA08912; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 11:46:15 +0300 To: CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com, Paul Traina References: <199501150813.AAA03707@freefall.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <199501150813.AAA03707@freefall.cdrom.com>; from Paul Traina at Sun, 15 Jan 1995 00:13:24 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 11:46:14 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.31 FreeBSD] From: "Andrew A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules Lines: 14 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 490 Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199501150813.AAA03707@freefall.cdrom.com> Paul Traina writes: >pst 95/01/15 00:13:23 > Modified: . modules > Log: > added ngroff ^^^^^^ What does it means? -- Andrew A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Sun Jan 15 01:03:10 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id BAA07588 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 01:03:10 -0800 Received: from precipice.Shockwave.COM (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA07581; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 01:02:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.Shockwave.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA05179; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 01:01:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199501150901.BAA05179@precipice.Shockwave.COM> To: "Andrew A. Chernov, Black Mage" cc: CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Jan 1995 11:46:14 +0300." Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 01:01:58 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been putting off dealing with fixing groff because I thought someone was going to kill the gnu tree and re-do all of the imports properly. No one's done it in the last six months, and it's really criminal that we've got this broken 1.08 in there while I've had patches sitting in my home directory. There was no way to load groff-1.09 on top of the groff-1.08+freebsd because the person who originally did the groff port screwed with the directory heirarchy, so I just created a new groff port and am layering changes necessary for compilation (plus all of your 8 bit clean changes et al). Once everyone's happy with ngroff, we change the makefile to build it instead of groff, then we wait n months and destroy groff and rename ngroff to groff. I hate CVS. :-( If anyone has a better way to do this, please let me know, as we need to do this for almost all of src/gnu. Paul From: "Andrew A. Chernov, Black Mage" Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules In message <199501150813.AAA03707@freefall.cdrom.com> Paul Traina writes: >pst 95/01/15 00:13:23 > Modified: . modules > Log: > added ngroff ^^^^^^ What does it means? -- Andrew A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 06:24:06 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA19384 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 06:24:06 -0800 Received: (from jmz@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id GAA19362; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 06:23:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 06:23:54 -0800 From: Jean-Marc Zucconi Message-Id: <199501161423.GAA19362@freefall.cdrom.com> To: CVS-commiters, cvs-CVSROOT Subject: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk jmz 95/01/16 06:23:54 Modified: . modules Log: latex209 ports/print/latex209 From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 11:21:41 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA04383 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:21:41 -0800 Received: from precipice.Shockwave.COM (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04362; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:21:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.Shockwave.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01106; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:19:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199501161919.LAA01106@precipice.Shockwave.COM> To: Paul Richards cc: ache@astral.msk.su, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:46:23 GMT." <199501161446.OAA02005@isl.cf.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:19:42 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul Richards Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules In reply to Paul Traina who said Please, no-one do any more of this. Those of use who sup the cvs tree get stuck with this forever since groff will always be in the cvs tree and if this carries on eventually even those of us with lots (I have 2 Gb) of disk are going to have to bail out. At some point, we're going to have to remove groff from the cvs tree. I guess the only way to do this is to remove all the current files and then import into the same area of the tree. That's what I did when I ditched the old libforms and imported a completely new one although I admit that was a much simpler job. The principle's the same though. The idea here was to avoid a discontinuity, otherwise there's no way to ask CVS: "Give me a snapshot of freebsd 2.0R sources." Every other convoluted way of doing the same thing involved just as much code getting stuffed into the attic (sigh). From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 11:23:37 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id LAA05041 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:23:37 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04724; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:22:42 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA02005; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:46:23 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199501161446.OAA02005@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:46:23 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501150901.BAA05179@precipice.Shockwave.COM> from "Paul Traina" at Jan 15, 95 01:01:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1287 Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Paul Traina who said > > There was no way to load groff-1.09 on top of the groff-1.08+freebsd > because the person who originally did the groff port screwed with the > directory heirarchy, so I just created a new groff port and am layering > changes necessary for compilation (plus all of your 8 bit clean changes et al). > > Once everyone's happy with ngroff, we change the makefile to build it instead > of groff, then we wait n months and destroy groff and rename ngroff to groff. > Please, no-one do any more of this. Those of use who sup the cvs tree get stuck with this forever since groff will always be in the cvs tree and if this carries on eventually even those of us with lots (I have 2 Gb) of disk are going to have to bail out. I guess the only way to do this is to remove all the current files and then import into the same area of the tree. That's what I did when I ditched the old libforms and imported a completely new one although I admit that was a much simpler job. The principle's the same though. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 18:21:42 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA22171 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:21:42 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA22135; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:21:30 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA19321; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 11:36:46 +1100 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 11:36:46 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199501170036.LAA19321@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, pst@shockwave.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules Cc: CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, ache@astral.msk.su, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >At some point, we're going to have to remove groff from the cvs tree. And rename ngroff to groff? Both will confuse cvs. > I guess the only way to do this is to remove all the current files and then > import into the same area of the tree. That's what I did when I ditched the > old libforms and imported a completely new one although I admit that > was a much simpler job. The principle's the same though. Removing the current files makes little difference to the size of the cvs tree. It just keeps the junk in the Attic. It does reduce the size of the checked out files. >The idea here was to avoid a discontinuity, otherwise there's no way to >ask CVS: "Give me a snapshot of freebsd 2.0R sources." I thought cvs was able to get the old files from Attics, and that's the main reason we are keeping 100% junk in Attics. >Every other convoluted way of doing the same thing involved just as much >code getting stuffed into the attic (sigh). Sigh. It would be worse if we actually kept up with gnu releases. Bruce From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 18:37:35 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA23813 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:37:35 -0800 Received: from precipice.Shockwave.COM (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23804; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:37:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.Shockwave.COM (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02834; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 17:23:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199501170123.RAA02834@precipice.Shockwave.COM> To: Bruce Evans cc: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, ache@astral.msk.su, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Jan 1995 11:36:46 +1100." <199501170036.LAA19321@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 17:23:57 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules >At some point, we're going to have to remove groff from the cvs tree. And rename ngroff to groff? Both will confuse cvs. > I guess the only way to do this is to remove all the current files and the >>n > import into the same area of the tree. That's what I did when I ditched th >>e > old libforms and imported a completely new one although I admit that > was a much simpler job. The principle's the same though. Removing the current files makes little difference to the size of the cvs tree. It just keeps the junk in the Attic. It does reduce the size of the checked out files. >The idea here was to avoid a discontinuity, otherwise there's no way to >ask CVS: "Give me a snapshot of freebsd 2.0R sources." I thought cvs was able to get the old files from Attics, and that's the main reason we are keeping 100% junk in Attics. Yes, but you can't re-add a file with the same name back in. >Every other convoluted way of doing the same thing involved just as much >code getting stuffed into the attic (sigh). Sigh. It would be worse if we actually kept up with gnu releases. Not if they had been imported into branches cleanly in the first place, then it's 100% trivial! Bruce From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 18:44:43 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA24577 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:44:43 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24538; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:44:21 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA00809; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 20:16:46 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199501162016.UAA00809@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 20:16:45 +0000 (GMT) Cc: pst@shockwave.com, ache@astral.msk.su, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501162010.MAA01384@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jan 16, 95 12:10:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1128 Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Rodney W. Grimes who said > The best solution I can see to this problem is to rename the current gnu > src tree to ognu, those supping can rename this locally before they sup > after the rename, create a new area gnu that is empty, start to import > and work in there. Once it is all moved to the new gnu area we can simply > stop supping the old one. > > This will create the anomoly that when you cvs co the old 2.0 release from > cvs on freefall you will end up with /usr/src/ognu. > > The other alternative would be to create /usr/src/ngnu and live with that > name forever, once all the bits are imported and set up in there correctly > simply stop supping src/gnu. (Same idea, only different names). > I guess that would be OK. If we call it /usr/src/gpl then the new name even makes more sense since not everything that we want separated out is gnu code. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 18:44:51 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA24589 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:44:51 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24551; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:44:27 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA00255; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 19:32:40 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199501161932.TAA00255@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules To: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 19:32:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501161919.LAA01106@precipice.Shockwave.COM> from "Paul Traina" at Jan 16, 95 11:19:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2260 Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Paul Traina who said > > > From: Paul Richards > Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules > In reply to Paul Traina who said > > Please, no-one do any more of this. > > Those of use who sup the cvs tree get stuck with this forever since > groff will always be in the cvs tree and if this carries on eventually > even those of us with lots (I have 2 Gb) of disk are going to have > to bail out. > > At some point, we're going to have to remove groff from the cvs tree. We can't do that because then we can't checkout 2.0 release or other previously tagged points. > > I guess the only way to do this is to remove all the current files and then > import into the same area of the tree. That's what I did when I ditched the > old libforms and imported a completely new one although I admit that > was a much simpler job. The principle's the same though. > > The idea here was to avoid a discontinuity, otherwise there's no way to > ask CVS: "Give me a snapshot of freebsd 2.0R sources." There'd be no problem getting a 2.0R snapshot with the way I did it. The way you're doing it prevents this though. > > Every other convoluted way of doing the same thing involved just as much > code getting stuffed into the attic (sigh). > Hmm, I guess you're right here since deleting all the files in the subdirectories would have moved them to the attic anyway and if none of the new files are in the same place there'll be the same code duplication. There's another problem with the way you've done it though and that's you can't remove the old groff sources from cvs and so now we're stuck with ngroff. People should bear in mind that the cvs repository is not easily munged and that once things go in, they stay in, forever. We shouldn't use cvs to do things like run parallel development on sources while we phase out an older version because there's no way to clean up the cvs repository afterwards and it's getting more and more cluttered. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 18:45:53 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA24675 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:45:53 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24665; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:45:45 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA01384; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 12:10:24 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199501162010.MAA01384@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 12:10:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: pst@shockwave.com, ache@astral.msk.su, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199501161446.OAA02005@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Jan 16, 95 02:46:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1948 Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In reply to Paul Traina who said > > > > There was no way to load groff-1.09 on top of the groff-1.08+freebsd > > because the person who originally did the groff port screwed with the > > directory heirarchy, so I just created a new groff port and am layering > > changes necessary for compilation (plus all of your 8 bit clean changes et al). > > > > Once everyone's happy with ngroff, we change the makefile to build it instead > > of groff, then we wait n months and destroy groff and rename ngroff to groff. > > > > Please, no-one do any more of this. > > Those of use who sup the cvs tree get stuck with this forever since > groff will always be in the cvs tree and if this carries on eventually > even those of us with lots (I have 2 Gb) of disk are going to have > to bail out. > > I guess the only way to do this is to remove all the current files and then > import into the same area of the tree. That's what I did when I ditched the > old libforms and imported a completely new one although I admit that > was a much simpler job. The principle's the same though. The best solution I can see to this problem is to rename the current gnu src tree to ognu, those supping can rename this locally before they sup after the rename, create a new area gnu that is empty, start to import and work in there. Once it is all moved to the new gnu area we can simply stop supping the old one. This will create the anomoly that when you cvs co the old 2.0 release from cvs on freefall you will end up with /usr/src/ognu. The other alternative would be to create /usr/src/ngnu and live with that name forever, once all the bits are imported and set up in there correctly simply stop supping src/gnu. (Same idea, only different names). > Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Mon Jan 16 19:50:33 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id TAA26081 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 19:17:56 -0800 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA26052; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 19:16:57 -0800 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; id AA23492; Mon, 16 Jan 1995 22:16:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 22:16:39 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9501170316.AA23492@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Paul Richards Cc: pst@shockwave.com (Paul Traina), ache@astral.msk.su, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules In-Reply-To: <199501161932.TAA00255@isl.cf.ac.uk> References: <199501161919.LAA01106@precipice.Shockwave.COM> <199501161932.TAA00255@isl.cf.ac.uk> Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: >> At some point, we're going to have to remove groff from the cvs tree. > We can't do that because then we can't checkout 2.0 release or other > previously tagged points. I don't see anything bad about this. Once we've released 2.2, there is no reason to keep around old, bogus versions of software that were used two releases previously and isn't maintained (or indeed maintainable, which was PST's principal---and laudable---contribution). > There'd be no problem getting a 2.0R snapshot with the way I did it. The > way you're doing it prevents this though. The ``way you did it'' perverts the design of CVS in a way that makes maintenance almost impossible. (Witness the fact that a new version had been out for quite a while now before someone actually sat down and did the work that CVS is designed to do automatically.) > People should bear in mind that the cvs repository is not easily > munged and that once things go in, they stay in, forever. As I said above, I think that this is a bad way to run a source tree. There are enough copies of the 2.0 sources extant that if anyone /really/ wants to see the sources to that hacked-up groff, they can be satisfied by pointing them towards one of these archives. > We > shouldn't use cvs to do things like run parallel development This, however, is quite true. But the particular example given here is a special case in the extreme. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Tue Jan 17 10:33:06 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA12906 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 10:33:06 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA12849; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 10:32:46 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA02903; Tue, 17 Jan 1995 18:31:27 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199501171831.SAA02903@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules To: wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 18:31:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: pst@shockwave.com, ache@astral.msk.su, CVS-commiters@freefall.cdrom.com, cvs-CVSROOT@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9501170316.AA23492@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett Wollman" at Jan 16, 95 10:16:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2012 Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Garrett Wollman who said > > I don't see anything bad about this. Once we've released 2.2, there > is no reason to keep around old, bogus versions of software that were > used two releases previously and isn't maintained (or indeed > maintainable, which was PST's principal---and laudable---contribution). I disagree. I think it's necessary for us to be able to retrieve any previous revision. There have been a number of times when I've checked out old versions of code because they worked and newer code failed in some way. > > > There'd be no problem getting a 2.0R snapshot with the way I did it. The > > way you're doing it prevents this though. > > The ``way you did it'' perverts the design of CVS in a way that makes > maintenance almost impossible. (Witness the fact that a new version > had been out for quite a while now before someone actually sat down > and did the work that CVS is designed to do automatically.) The "way I did it" is wrong, I agree, but the real problem is that the cvs tree was not used properly initially so we have to find a way now to "fix" the problem so that cvs can be used as it should be in the future. > > We > > shouldn't use cvs to do things like run parallel development > > This, however, is quite true. But the particular example given here > is a special case in the extreme. This is all very interesting but it's not solving the problem. I think we should adopt Rod's idea, start a new directory /usr/src/gpl and do all the fresh imports into that and this time put them properly on vendor branches so that future upgrades become fairly painless. I'm really not going to be happy if we blindly carry on adding more baggage to the repository in a way that can't be filtered out when I sup. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Thu Jan 19 13:32:37 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA01093 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:32:37 -0800 Received: (from wollman@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA01071; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:32:21 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:32:21 -0800 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <199501192132.NAA01071@freefall.cdrom.com> To: CVS-commiters, cvs-CVSROOT Subject: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk wollman 95/01/19 13:32:18 Modified: . modules Log: libss -> src/lib/libss mk_cmds -> src/usr.bin/mk_cmds From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Thu Jan 19 18:52:10 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA18784 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:52:10 -0800 Received: (from wollman@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA18760; Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:52:06 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:52:06 -0800 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <199501200252.SAA18760@freefall.cdrom.com> To: CVS-commiters, cvs-CVSROOT Subject: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk wollman 95/01/19 18:52:05 Modified: . modules Log: libkadm -> src/eBones/libkadm kadmin -> src/eBones/kadmin kadmind -> src/ebones/kadmind From owner-cvs-CVSROOT Fri Jan 20 16:41:22 1995 Return-Path: cvs-CVSROOT-owner Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA24890 for cvs-CVSROOT-outgoing; Fri, 20 Jan 1995 16:41:22 -0800 Received: (from ache@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA24872; Fri, 20 Jan 1995 16:41:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 16:41:17 -0800 From: "Andrew A. Chernov" Message-Id: <199501210041.QAA24872@freefall.cdrom.com> To: CVS-commiters, cvs-CVSROOT Subject: cvs commit: CVSROOT modules Sender: cvs-CVSROOT-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ache 95/01/20 16:41:16 Modified: . modules Log: ports/mail/pgpsendmail