From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 11 00:34:27 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA03384 for current-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 00:34:27 -0700 Received: from lirmm.lirmm.fr (lirmm.lirmm.fr [193.49.104.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA03378 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 00:34:26 -0700 Received: from lirmm.fr (baobab.lirmm.fr [193.49.106.14]) by lirmm.lirmm.fr (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA02129 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 09:34:24 +0200 Message-Id: <199506110734.JAA02129@lirmm.lirmm.fr> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: suggestion Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 09:34:22 +0200 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, As a lot of people will come and get 2.0.5 installed, it would be nice to ask them to report the geometry they used (when they had to manually enter it), and make a small database of currently used disks. I think that /etc/disktab should be also updated because it contains only old disks (i.e with small capacities). -------- -------- Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 11 11:33:19 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA13470 for current-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 11:33:19 -0700 Received: from cancer.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.250]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13454 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 11:33:10 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by cancer.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA00437; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 02:32:47 +0800 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 02:32:42 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-CURRENT-L Subject: Is bindist on ftp.cdrom.com corrupted too? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Leeched all of 2.0.5-RELEASE from the Taiwan FreeBSD mirror this evening and had major problems extracting the bindist tarball. cpio complained about everything from invalid directory header to extraneous garbage data. I'm re-getting the whole thing from the mirror, in case I messed something up the first time. Has anyone else had this problem? If not, and my problem persists, I suppose I'll have to try another mirror or ftp.cdrom.com. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-current Sun Jun 11 12:00:29 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15057 for current-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 12:00:29 -0700 Received: from cancer.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.250]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15045 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 12:00:17 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by cancer.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA00524; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 02:59:52 +0800 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 02:59:46 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-CURRENT-L Subject: My fault... (Re: Is bindist on ftp.cdrom.com corrupted too?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Sorry for the alarm... looks like something messed up between the mirror and my machines. I went back to get another copy of the bin and proflib tarballs, and now they unpack fine. No idea why they didn't work the first time (used ncftp, should have automatically been in binary mode, wasn't missing any segments). Once that was fixed, the install went smooth as silk. Selected a bunch of packages, hit "Commit" then went away to read mail on another terminal. When I came back, there was an error dialog saying it couldn't unpack the compat20 tarball. Debugging screen said /usr was full. Switched over to the holographic shell and found out it was because I had accidentally selected the dict tarball. Removed /usr/share/dict. Switched back to ttyv0. Hit Return to tell the installer to try compat20 again. It did so. Finished off the rest of the install without a hitch. Beautiful. :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 01:09:51 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA15075 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 01:09:51 -0700 Received: from mpp.com ([204.157.201.242]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15069 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 01:09:47 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA01350 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 03:09:50 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199506120809.DAA01350@mpp.com> Subject: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 03:09:49 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1833 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Is the FreeBSD mentor project still alive? I think I just picked up my first student from one of the USENET groups, so you might as well put my name on the list...:-) Anyways, I've responded to several questions from various sources in the past week about setting up PPP, and the problem that all of these people were having was that they were running a new 2.0.5 kernel that didn't have PPP configured because it was taken out so that the kernel would fit on the boot floppy. It has been these questions that prompted me to submit the changes to the ppp.FAQ file to the freeebsd-doc mailing list that tell people to check if PPP has been configured into the kernel they are running before trying to get PPP working. Since a lot of potential new FreeBSD users probably are using PPP/SLIP through some type of ISP, the GENERIC configuration file should contain PPP by default. If we need a smaller kernel for the boot floppy, then there should be a "BOOTFLP" configuration instead. The installation should start with the BOOTFLP kernel, but one of the loaded distributions (bindist? or whatever) should provide a more fully configured kernel. E.g. the GENERIC kernel. This should be done for 2.1. As I stated above, I've got a guy I've been trying to help for the past couple of days, but he is VERY new to UNIX. I pointed him to the FAQ that told him how to rebuilt a kernel, and he was still having problems because he doesn't really know about make/vi/everything else we all take for granted. At least he got the system installed in the first place, which is a good sign. Is there a "generic" UNIX FAQ or book I could point him at? If there is one, our own FAQs should probably point to this, too. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@legarto.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 06:43:54 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA20058 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 06:43:54 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA20052 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 06:43:52 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA22419; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:11:14 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199506121341.XAA22419@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers To: mpp@legarto.minn.net (Mike Pritchard) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:11:13 +0930 (CST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506120809.DAA01350@mpp.com> from "Mike Pritchard" at Jun 12, 95 03:09:49 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1162 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Mike Pritchard stands accused of saying: > Since a lot of potential new FreeBSD users probably are using PPP/SLIP > through some type of ISP, the GENERIC configuration file should contain > PPP by default. If we need a smaller kernel for the boot floppy, then > there should be a "BOOTFLP" configuration instead. The installation > should start with the BOOTFLP kernel, but one of the loaded distributions > (bindist? or whatever) should provide a more fully configured kernel. > E.g. the GENERIC kernel. This should be done for 2.1. The PPP faq should actually mention the user-mode PPP and the tun0 device which is obviously still in the bootfloppy kernel. IMHO this is _much_ easier to use from my (limited) exposure than pppd for the 'average user'. > Mike Pritchard -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 07:40:36 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21111 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 07:40:36 -0700 Received: from methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de (methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de [130.133.2.81]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA21093 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 07:40:30 -0700 Received: by methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.29.1) from dva.in-berlin.de with uucp id ; Mon, 12 Jun 95 16:40 MET DST Received: by dva.in-berlin.de id m0sL9sz-0002LCC; Mon, 12 Jun 95 15:50 MET DST (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@dva.in-berlin.de (Boris Staeblow) Subject: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 15:50:37 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 306 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi! Which CTM# is the last before 2.0.5R ? (src and ports) Boris -- balu@dva.in-berlin.de | Boris Staeblow | -=- dva.in-berlin.de -=- | 13407 Berlin - Germany | +49 30 495 50 60 ZyX19.2k 24h | | uucp/FreeBSD-current/-ports From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 08:46:11 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22903 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 08:46:11 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22897 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 08:46:07 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30748>; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 08:47:18 +0100 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 08:47:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Mike Pritchard cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <199506120809.DAA01350@mpp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 12 Jun 1995, Mike Pritchard wrote: > Anyways, I've responded to several questions from various sources in the > past week about setting up PPP, and the problem that all of these people > were having was that they were running a new 2.0.5 kernel that didn't have > PPP configured because it was taken out so that the kernel would fit on the > boot floppy. It has been these questions that prompted me to submit the The 2.0.5 GENERIC kernel *does* support ppp and slip. Tom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 09:18:01 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA23516 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:18:01 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA23510 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:18:00 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA22325; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:17:24 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199506121617.JAA22325@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: root@dva.in-berlin.de (Boris Staeblow) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Boris Staeblow" at Jun 12, 95 03:50:37 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 415 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Which CTM# is the last before 2.0.5R ? (src and ports) I don't know :-( I will produce a delta from 2.0.5-RELEASE and to current at some point. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 09:43:32 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA24294 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:43:32 -0700 Received: from mpp.com ([204.157.201.242]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA24288 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:43:29 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA00253; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:42:13 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199506121642.LAA00253@mpp.com> Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:42:12 -0500 (CDT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506121341.XAA22419@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jun 12, 95 11:11:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1475 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Mike Pritchard stands accused of saying: > > Since a lot of potential new FreeBSD users probably are using PPP/SLIP > > through some type of ISP, the GENERIC configuration file should contain > > PPP by default. If we need a smaller kernel for the boot floppy, then > > there should be a "BOOTFLP" configuration instead. The installation > > should start with the BOOTFLP kernel, but one of the loaded distributions > > (bindist? or whatever) should provide a more fully configured kernel. > > E.g. the GENERIC kernel. This should be done for 2.1. > > The PPP faq should actually mention the user-mode PPP and the tun0 device > which is obviously still in the bootfloppy kernel. > > IMHO this is _much_ easier to use from my (limited) exposure than pppd > for the 'average user'. True, but we have people coming from 2.0, which didn't have the user-mode PPP. So if they already setup PPP, it was the kernel-mode PPP. Someone who actually runs the user-mode stuff should write up something to be added to the PPP FAQ. When I got my kernel-mode PPP link working a couple of weeks back, I didn't run across any real gotchas or anything that I could see causing headaches for the "average user". I think that all of the problems I had involved installing a new modem at the same time. Has anyone compared the two? Is one faster/less overhead/whatever? -- Mike Pritchard mpp@legarto.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 09:58:27 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA25513 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:58:27 -0700 Received: from methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de (methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de [130.133.2.81]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA24865 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:55:59 -0700 Received: by methan.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.29.1) from dva.in-berlin.de with uucp id ; Mon, 12 Jun 95 18:52 MET DST Received: by dva.in-berlin.de id m0sLCX6-0002LCC; Mon, 12 Jun 95 18:40 MET DST (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@dva.in-berlin.de (Boris Staeblow) Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:40:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506121617.JAA22325@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jun 12, 95 09:17:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 571 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > Which CTM# is the last before 2.0.5R ? (src and ports) > > I don't know :-( > > I will produce a delta from 2.0.5-RELEASE and to current at some point. Can't you compare the release-rolling-time with the ctm-timestamps? (I will not download 27 MB again to have a "clean 2.0.5R src-backup") Boris! -- balu@dva.in-berlin.de | Boris Staeblow | -=- dva.in-berlin.de -=- | 13407 Berlin - Germany | +49 30 495 50 60 ZyX19.2k 24h | | uucp/FreeBSD-current/-ports From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 10:08:05 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA27633 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:08:05 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA27623 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:07:58 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA02385; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:04:09 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506121704.KAA02385@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: root@dva.in-berlin.de (Boris Staeblow) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: phk@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Boris Staeblow" at Jun 12, 95 06:40:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 822 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > > > Which CTM# is the last before 2.0.5R ? (src and ports) > > > > I don't know :-( > > > > I will produce a delta from 2.0.5-RELEASE and to current at some point. > > Can't you compare the release-rolling-time with the ctm-timestamps? > (I will not download 27 MB again to have a "clean 2.0.5R src-backup") with 99% probability of being right what is now in the ctm area is the 2.0.5R bits since I allowed the last update_usrall to finish before I stop the cronjob to do the tag operation. Infact I would say with 99.999999% probablility :-). I have not started any of this up so if you check right now you will get it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 10:15:55 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29606 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:15:55 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29595 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:15:52 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA22507; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:08:23 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199506121708.KAA22507@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: root@dva.in-berlin.de (Boris Staeblow) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Boris Staeblow" at Jun 12, 95 06:40:12 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 712 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Which CTM# is the last before 2.0.5R ? (src and ports) > > > > I don't know :-( > > > > I will produce a delta from 2.0.5-RELEASE and to current at some point. > > Can't you compare the release-rolling-time with the ctm-timestamps? > (I will not download 27 MB again to have a "clean 2.0.5R src-backup") Well, the latest one you have should be pretty clean for 2.0.5, since no commits have gone into the tree since 2.0.5 was released. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 10:23:00 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01617 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:23:00 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA01564 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:22:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27873; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:22:47 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA15658; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:22:46 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA04634; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:08:26 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199506121708.TAA04634@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: root@dva.in-berlin.de (Boris Staeblow) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:08:26 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Boris Staeblow" at Jun 12, 95 03:50:37 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 757 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Boris Staeblow wrote: > > Which CTM# is the last before 2.0.5R ? (src and ports) I doubt it would help you very much. The final release work has been done on a branch that's currently being back-integrated into the head of the CVS tree. So the last regular CTM update will miss the fixes from the branch. The last CTM level i've got for cvs-cur (the exportable CVS-current tree) is 770. Since this tree does contain the branch, too (of course), it might be of some use for all who need it. I assume, you should wait until the next CTM update appears, it will contain the bits from 2.0.5R re-integrated. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 10:35:29 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03977 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:35:29 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03967 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:35:24 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA02459; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:31:01 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506121731.KAA02459@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: root@dva.in-berlin.de, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506121708.TAA04634@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jun 12, 95 07:08:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1290 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > As Boris Staeblow wrote: > > > > Which CTM# is the last before 2.0.5R ? (src and ports) > > I doubt it would help you very much. The final release work has been > done on a branch that's currently being back-integrated into the head > of the CVS tree. So the last regular CTM update will miss the fixes > from the branch. And /usr/src and thus ctm on freefall was cvs update -r RELENG_2_0_5 about 2 weeks ago, so the CTM's are following right along... > The last CTM level i've got for cvs-cur (the exportable CVS-current > tree) is 770. Since this tree does contain the branch, too (of > course), it might be of some use for all who need it. Do not offer out the cvs bits to the public, or be prepared to loose your access to them.... > I assume, you should wait until the next CTM update appears, it will > contain the bits from 2.0.5R re-integrated. Most likely quite wrong, as /usr/src will become 2.2 on freefall, and since that source tree was very very old it was checked out with a CVSROOT that was wrong. I am patching in the correct cvs root which will effect a lot of files (anything with $Header$ in it). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 10:35:50 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA04005 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:35:50 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03993 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:35:45 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA02524 for FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:35:52 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506121735.KAA02524@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: CVS and FreeBSD 2.0.5/2.1/2.2 To: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:35:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3955 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I was asked to put this small plan together so that the core team could look it over and confirm this is what we are going to do. The core team has looked this over, feedback incorportated, and actions now being taken.... This plan involves input from Jordan (2.0.5R Release Engineer, and part of 2.1 release engineering team), Poul (2.0R Release Engineer) and myself (1.0R, 1.1R Release engineer, part of 2.1 release engineering team), and David (part of 2.0.5R and 2.1 release engineering team). As you notice from above Jordan, David and myself will compose the 2.1 release team. What this means will become clear as you read through what it is we are proposing to do and/or have already done. The CVS tree was tagged for 2.0.5A, branched at RELENG_2_0_5_BP onto the branch RELENG_2_0_5. Currently all cvs access has been restricted to the current src/ports release engineers while things shake down and we try to figure out just what it is we are going to do for the future. Since our about to happen release is now on a branch that no one but the release engineers can work on, and we need to get the changes made in it out to our -current user base with a minimum of fuss (David is about to fix a bunch of bugs and we need it to get out ASAP) I propose that I ``cd /usr/src; cvs update -r RELENG_2_0_5'' on Freefall. This in effect will mean that /usr/src is tracking our -current developement work. This will have a *MINIMUM* impact on -current users as it will simply update the files that have been modified since 2.0.5A and they will be able to track Jordan and David's final bug fixes. Infact this update opertion has already happened and suppers should now me updated to the same bits Jordan is using to roll releases with. When 2.0.5R is ready the tree will again be tagged and a cvs merge operation of all 2.0.5A to 2.0.5R changes merged back into the main branch. The RELENG_2_0_5 branch tag will be renamed to RELENG_2_1_0. After that merge is done I will run a cvs update -A in /usr/src to bring it back onto the main line (should actually cause 0 changes to the files, should just removed the CVS/Tag files.) [This is gobbley gook that most of you don't need to know about, just let it be said this is, IMHO, the easiest thing to do and eliminates dual branching the tree.] At this point in time the release engineering team for 2.1 will begin to work on the end of the RELENG_2_1_0 branch, a copy of this branch will be checked out on freefall (probably as /b/src) and new sup targets will be set up for it. This will become what is known as the -stable branch. A new mailling list will be set up for people to talk about it on. There will not be any open commit access given to this area, David, Jordan and myself all know too well that allowing a free for all any place close to 2 months before a release invariable delays it due to new code coming in that could not possible be shaken out be release time. And now the final thing, what is now the current main branch in cvs is from TODAY forward known as the 2.2 development branch. So when we open the gates on it (this will be done concurrently with the application of the 2.0.5R/2.1.0 tags) committers will be working on FreeBSD 2.2. David and myself will be responsible for dual committing all applicable 2.1 changes into the 2.2 tree. Expect this to happen some time this weekend, though cvs access to it will remain off until I can do the 2.0.5A -> 2.0.5R cvs merge operation (doing things this way will allow me to do that in less than an hour since it will be impossible for a cvs conflict to have been created). Footnotes: 1. we should change the newvers.sh strings at the right times too. 2. People should send email to ctm@freebsd.org if they want to lobby for a ctm-21 series of CTM deltas. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 11:41:48 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA10582 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:41:48 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA10575 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:41:42 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA02608; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:41:40 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506121841.LAA02608@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: CVS and FreeBSD 2.0.5/2.1/2.2 To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current) In-Reply-To: <199506121818.OAA00342@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jun 12, 95 02:18:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2282 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [Put back on the mailling lists...] > > Rodney W. Grimes writes: > This sounds good. I only have two concerns: > > 1. 2.1 "stable" will be under-tested, since the split will be > between 2.05R and -current, and not enough sites will be running > -stable. Will -stable will be the main branch you try to steer > random internet users to and not 2.05R? Not ``random internet users'', there have been many requests for something between RELEASE and CURRENT. Stable will be basically the last release + critical bug fixes. 2.1 is going to be 2.0.5R + what ever CRITICAL bug fixes David gets done between now and when he says it is done. > If we set up a formal > release mechanism similar to the snapshots HD can run those releases > on Greg's system. This presumes running -stable will be fairly > low risk. That is the idea, for most folks sticking to RELEASE for mission critical systems has left them wanting some of the more critical bug fixes, but not wanting to risk jumping up to -current. We will walk -stable down a fine line between the last full release and current developement work only putting the critical bug fixes into it. > 2. I won't have space for both a 2.1 tree (I know I can't commit > to it but I could prepare fixes if someone submitted a bug) and > -current, I'll stick to -current. Submitting fixes will be more > time consuming unless they happen to match -current. Submit them against -current, it will take the release engineering team to pull these changes from -current into -stable. Since we all have the cvs bits on our boxes we can produce the needed -stable diff pretty quickly if there is a conflict. This also gives the release team a little more control over the next release without slowing down developement. Look at it this way, after today we will begin the testing of 2.1A as that is now the branch!! > Anyway, it sounds like a good plan so we'll see how it works out > in practice. Yep, live and learn... the release team is going to have to pick up a few cvs tricks to learn to deal with this better, but that is a small price to pay for what it should gain us. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 12:29:08 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15275 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:29:08 -0700 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15253 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:29:02 -0700 Received: from ole.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@ole.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.22.3]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA14637 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:27:57 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by ole.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA15888; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:27:55 +0200 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:27:55 +0200 Message-Id: <199506121927.VAA15888@ole.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: killall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I miss the killall program like in Linux or Irix. Here is a little perl hack. #!/usr/bin/perl # # killall - kill all processes # # Note: work only with effective uid due the limit of procfs # (eg. not with suid programs) $ENV{'PATH'} = "/bin:/usr/bin"; $procfs = '/proc'; $signal = 'SIGTERM'; # default signal for kill $debug = 0; $PROC_NAME = 0 + $[; $PROC_RUID = 11 + $[; $PROC_REST = 12 + $[; sub usage { die "killall [-v] [-?|-help] [-l] [-SIGNAL] program\n"; } while ($_ = $ARGV[0], /^-/) { shift @ARGV; if (/^--$/) { $_ = $ARGV[0]; last } elsif (/^-v$/) { $debug = 1 } elsif (/^-(h|help|\?)$/) { do usage } elsif (/^-l$/) { exec 'kill', '-l' } elsif (/^-([A-Za-z]+|[0-9]+)$/) { $signal = $1 } } $program = $_; &usage unless $program; die "Maybe $procfs is not mounted\n" unless -e "$procfs/0/status"; while(<$procfs/[0-9]*>) { $file = "$_/status"; ($pid = $_) =~ s=^$procfs/==; next if $pid == $$; # don't kill yourself open(P, "$file") || next; # process maybe already terminated while(

) { @proc = split; print "$pid $proc[$PROC_NAME] $proc[$PROC_RUID]\n" if $debug > 0; push(@kill, "$pid") if ($proc[$PROC_NAME] eq $program && $proc[$PROC_RUID] eq $<); } close P; } exit(1) if $#kill < 0; # nothing found $signal =~ y/[a-z]/[A-Z]/; # signal name in upper case print "kill $signal @kill\n" if $debug; kill ($signal, @kill); # end From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 12:46:07 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18585 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:46:07 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA18579 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:46:06 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA22637; Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:37:51 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9506121937.AA22637@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:37:51 MDT Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, root@dva.in-berlin.de, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506121731.KAA02459@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 10:31:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Do not offer out the cvs bits to the public, or be prepared to loose > your access to them.... Uh, Rod, why is that? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 12:50:03 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18765 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:50:03 -0700 Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA18729 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:49:54 -0700 Received: by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE id AA01970 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for current@freebsd.org); Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:49:39 +0200 Message-Id: <199506121949.AA01970@FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE> From: esser@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:49:38 +0200 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Please test this PCI bus init patch ... Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk There have been a few reports on newer PCI chip sets not being correctly recognised as using configuration mechanism 1 (the preferred mechnism for all new PCI chip sets). To make FreeBSD boot on these systems, I made a patch to "/sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c", which is expected to correctly determine the configuration mechanism on old and new systems ... I've sent an earlier version of this patch to the "hackers@freebsd.org" list and got some feedback, leading to one further small modification. Please test this patch on all PCI systems you use, to make sure your system will continue to work after this patch goes into FreeBSD-current ! Thanks in advance, STefan Index: /sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c =================================================================== RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/i386/isa/pcibus.c,v retrieving revision 1.8 diff -C2 -r1.8 pcibus.c *** 1.8 1995/03/22 21:35:39 --- pcibus.c 1995/06/12 19:04:50 *************** *** 140,143 **** --- 140,144 ---- #define CONF1_ENABLE 0x80000000ul + #define CONF1_ENABLE_CHK 0xF0000000ul #define CONF1_ADDR_PORT 0x0cf8 #define CONF1_DATA_PORT 0x0cfc *************** *** 154,170 **** /*--------------------------------------- - ** Configuration mode 2 ? - **--------------------------------------- - */ - - outb (CONF2_ENABLE_PORT, 0); - outb (CONF2_FORWARD_PORT, 0); - if (!inb (CONF2_ENABLE_PORT) && !inb (CONF2_FORWARD_PORT)) { - pci_mechanism = 2; - pci_maxdevice = 16; - return; - }; - - /*--------------------------------------- ** Configuration mode 1 ? **--------------------------------------- --- 155,158 ---- *************** *** 172,176 **** oldval = inl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT); ! outl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT, CONF1_ENABLE); result = inl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT); outl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT, oldval); --- 160,165 ---- oldval = inl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT); ! outl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT, CONF1_ENABLE_CHK); ! outb (CONF1_ADDR_PORT +3, 0); result = inl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT); outl (CONF1_ADDR_PORT, oldval); *************** *** 179,182 **** --- 168,184 ---- pci_mechanism = 1; pci_maxdevice = 32; + return; + }; + + /*--------------------------------------- + ** Configuration mode 2 ? + **--------------------------------------- + */ + + outb (CONF2_ENABLE_PORT, 0); + outb (CONF2_FORWARD_PORT, 0); + if (!inb (CONF2_ENABLE_PORT) && !inb (CONF2_FORWARD_PORT)) { + pci_mechanism = 2; + pci_maxdevice = 16; return; }; -- Stefan Esser Internet: Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706017 Universitaet zu Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 Weyertal 80 50931 Koeln From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 13:06:41 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19454 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:06:41 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19445 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:06:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02882; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:05:47 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506122005.NAA02882@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, root@dva.in-berlin.de, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9506121937.AA22637@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 12, 95 01:37:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 411 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Do not offer out the cvs bits to the public, or be prepared to loose > > your access to them.... > > Uh, Rod, why is that? Because we often have stuff in there that should have never been in there in the first place. Copyright problems, etc... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 13:17:10 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19712 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:17:10 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19706 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:17:07 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA00825; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:17:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA02030; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:17:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199506122017.NAA02030@corbin.Root.COM> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, root@dva.in-berlin.de, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:37:51 MDT." <9506121937.AA22637@cs.weber.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:17:14 -0700 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> Do not offer out the cvs bits to the public, or be prepared to loose >> your access to them.... > >Uh, Rod, why is that? That is our policy. There are several good reason for this, including but not limited to, unreleaseable code in the repository (do to copyright issues or whatever). -DG From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 13:45:08 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA20862 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:45:08 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20847 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:44:59 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA18460 ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:44:07 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA17640 ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:44:06 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199506122044.WAA17640@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers To: mpp@legarto.minn.net (Mike Pritchard) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:44:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506121642.LAA00253@mpp.com> from "Mike Pritchard" at Jun 12, 95 11:42:12 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD BUILT-19950501 ctm#617 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 368 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone compared the two? Is one faster/less overhead/whatever? The user mode ppp seems slower (1.3 KB/s compared to 1.55 KB/s). Maybe a configuration problem on my part but I got the asyncmap right (I think). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0-BUILT-19950503 #3: Wed May 3 19:53:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 13:52:40 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21233 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:52:40 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21227 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:52:38 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA18499 ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:52:24 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA17662 ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:52:23 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199506122052.WAA17662@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:52:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: root@dva.in-berlin.de, phk@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506121704.KAA02385@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 10:04:09 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD BUILT-19950501 ctm#617 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 926 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > with 99% probability of being right what is now in the ctm area is the > 2.0.5R bits since I allowed the last update_usrall to finish before I > stop the cronjob to do the tag operation. Infact I would say with > 99.999999% probablility :-). I have not started any of this up so > if you check right now you will get it. The last cvs-cur received here was : CTM_BEGIN 2.0 cvs-cur 770 19950610200001Z . It was just before you closed CTM for the tagging/merge after the release. I'd say what all CTMers have is either -current (stopped around June, 1st) or 2.0.5R if src-cur was made from the RELENG_2_0_5 branch and not from -current (which I doubt). So I think all src-cur CTMers have -current without last 2.0.5 fixes... cvs-cur CTMers have anything they extract :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0-BUILT-19950503 #3: Wed May 3 19:53:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 13:55:06 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21278 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:55:06 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21272 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:55:01 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA18532 ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:54:56 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA17676 ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:54:56 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199506122054.WAA17676@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:54:55 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, root@dva.in-berlin.de, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506121731.KAA02459@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 10:31:01 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD BUILT-19950501 ctm#617 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 331 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > And /usr/src and thus ctm on freefall was cvs update -r RELENG_2_0_5 > about 2 weeks ago, so the CTM's are following right along... So I was wrong... Thanks for the clarification. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0-BUILT-19950503 #3: Wed May 3 19:53:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 14:04:08 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA21451 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:04:08 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA21445 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:04:04 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02974 for FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:04:11 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506122104.OAA02974@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: PLEASE STOP!!!! To: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 585 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am getting tons of private email about all sorts of things that should all go to the list, just because I am the CVS reporitory manager and munge things a lot does not mean I should be the one to answer all the questions about FreeBSD bits... Please send ALL mail that is FreeBSD related to the mailling lists, I will no longer respond to private email about things that are of general interest to all or many FreeBSD users... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 14:08:08 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA21514 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:08:08 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA21507 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:08:04 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02998; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:07:45 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506122107.OAA02998@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: root@dva.in-berlin.de, phk@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506122052.WAA17662@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Jun 12, 95 10:52:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1512 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > with 99% probability of being right what is now in the ctm area is the > > 2.0.5R bits since I allowed the last update_usrall to finish before I > > stop the cronjob to do the tag operation. Infact I would say with > > 99.999999% probablility :-). I have not started any of this up so > > if you check right now you will get it. > > The last cvs-cur received here was : > > CTM_BEGIN 2.0 cvs-cur 770 19950610200001Z . > > It was just before you closed CTM for the tagging/merge after the release. > I'd say what all CTMers have is either -current (stopped around June, 1st) or > 2.0.5R if src-cur was made from the RELENG_2_0_5 branch and not from > -current (which I doubt). DO I HAVE TO YELL THIS, /usr/src on freefall WAS on the RELENG_2_0_5 branch 2 days after I branched the thing!!!! Thus all SUP sites and all CTM sites HAVE 2.0.5R as of what they can get RIGHT NOW. I will be opening the flood gate in about 6 hours and you will be getting the -current bits that are now headed for 2.2, please read -current mail from me about FreeBSD 2.0.5/2.1/2.2. > So I think all src-cur CTMers have -current without last 2.0.5 fixes... > cvs-cur CTMers have anything they extract :-) > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD keltia 2.0-BUILT-19950503 #3: Wed May 3 19:53:04 MET DST 1995 > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 14:10:11 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA21557 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:10:11 -0700 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA21551 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:10:09 -0700 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.3.6) id AA01155; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:10:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:10:00 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9506122110.AA01155@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <199506122044.WAA17640@blaise.ibp.fr> References: <199506121642.LAA00253@mpp.com> <199506122044.WAA17640@blaise.ibp.fr> Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk < The user mode ppp seems slower (1.3 KB/s compared to 1.55 KB/s). Maybe > a configuration problem on my part but I got the asyncmap right (I think). Of course. Remember that you have to do a context switch to process every packet. That doesn't come for free. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 14:55:40 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23040 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:55:40 -0700 Received: from panix.com (panix.com [198.7.0.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23034 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:55:39 -0700 Received: (from jbrann@localhost) by panix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12+PanixU1.0) id RAA08149 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:53:59 -0400 From: John Brann Message-Id: <199506122153.RAA08149@panix.com> Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:53:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 548 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [stuff about 2 PPP styles removed] > Has anyone compared the two? Is one faster/less overhead/whatever? > I have used both on 950412-SNAP. The kernel-type gave me a large error- packet count, which I don't get with the user-type (this was bad enough to cause ftp to freeze up on occasion). This may be a vagary of the SNAP, but I have found the user-type much more reliable, and dial-on-demand rules! John. -- Difficult conversations with great figures of history: 3. Winston Churchill: "Excuse me, this is the no-smoking section." From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 17:35:40 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA10014 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:35:40 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10008 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 17:35:33 -0700 Received: from tama3.spec.co.jp (tama3 [202.32.13.252]) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with SMTP id JAA24748; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:28:52 +0900 Message-Id: <9506130038.AA00036@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:38:20 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Cc: mpp@legarto.minn.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <199506122044.WAA17640@blaise.ibp.fr> X-Mailer: AL-Mail 0.94Beta Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) writes: :> :> Has anyone compared the two? Is one faster/less overhead/whatever? : :The user mode ppp seems slower (1.3 KB/s compared to 1.55 KB/s). Maybe :a configuration problem on my part but I got the asyncmap right (I think). : :-- :Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG :FreeBSD keltia 2.0-BUILT-19950503 #3: Wed May 3 19:53:04 MET DST 1995 How about turn off modem compression with draft Predictor-1 compression and please watch a time not only a elaps but also system overhead. You might get different results ;-) Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai E-Mail: amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 19:25:27 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA27999 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:25:27 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA27866 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:25:15 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30748>; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:26:02 +0100 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:25:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Atsushi Murai cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <9506130038.AA00036@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Atsushi Murai wrote: > How about turn off modem compression with draft Predictor-1 compression and > please watch a time not only a elaps but also system overhead. > You might get different results ;-) What besides iij-ppp supports predictor-1 compression? Tom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 19:43:35 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA08258 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:43:35 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA08242 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:43:32 -0700 Received: from tama3.spec.co.jp (tama3 [202.32.13.252]) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with SMTP id LAA26491; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:37:44 +0900 Message-Id: <9506130247.AA00039@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:47:13 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai To: tom@uniserve.com Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AL-Mail 0.94Beta Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Tom Samplonius wrote: : :On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Atsushi Murai wrote: : :> How about turn off modem compression with draft Predictor-1 compression and :> please watch a time not only a elaps but also system overhead. :> You might get different results ;-) : : What besides iij-ppp supports predictor-1 compression? : :Tom : I am not export in this area but I think it will be common compression with ppp protcol like Vj-compression. As you might know, VJ-compression is already popular but it's just compression(get rid of redundancy) of tcp/ip header. But Predictor-1 will try compression whole date when talk to peer ppp. This will give us two advantage as follows: 1. Decrese system over head due to reducing a sio H/W interruption. (H/W interruption is required big cpu time especially latest cpu) 2. For ISDN TA that doen's has a own H/W compression can get double speed with not compression data. ( i.e. 38400bps -> 7KB/sec ) Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai E-Mail: amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 19:50:19 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA11844 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:50:19 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA11730 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:50:00 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30732>; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:50:57 +0100 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:50:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Atsushi Murai cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <9506130247.AA00039@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Atsushi Murai wrote: > But Predictor-1 will try compression whole date when talk to peer ppp. > This will give us two advantage as follows: > > 1. Decrese system over head due to reducing a sio H/W interruption. > (H/W interruption is required big cpu time especially latest cpu) What about the extra CPU time and extra latency required for the actual compression? > 2. For ISDN TA that doen's has a own H/W compression can get double > speed with not compression data. ( i.e. 38400bps -> 7KB/sec ) I've looked at this application myself. Especially over 56k or 64k links. However, dedicated units still provide better performance (ex. Gandalf 5250i with "advertised" compression up to 8:1, and in reality isn't as much, but is still very good). Tom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 20:02:19 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA19023 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:02:19 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18953 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:02:13 -0700 Received: from tama3.spec.co.jp (tama3 [202.32.13.252]) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with SMTP id LAA26647; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:56:49 +0900 Message-Id: <9506130306.AA00040@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:06:18 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai To: tom@uniserve.com Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AL-Mail 0.94Beta Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Tom Samplonius wrote: : :On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Atsushi Murai wrote: : :> But Predictor-1 will try compression whole date when talk to peer ppp. :> This will give us two advantage as follows: :> :> 1. Decrese system over head due to reducing a sio H/W interruption. :> (H/W interruption is required big cpu time especially latest cpu) : : What about the extra CPU time and extra latency required for the actual :compression? Sorry I don't have data for handy but when I try to ping the other side which is running iij-ppp with the compression by ISDN TA, I can get a RTP around 50ms. :> 2. For ISDN TA that doen's has a own H/W compression can get double :> speed with not compression data. ( i.e. 38400bps -> 7KB/sec ) : : I've looked at this application myself. Especially over 56k or 64k :links. However, dedicated units still provide better performance (ex. :Gandalf 5250i with "advertised" compression up to 8:1, and in reality :isn't as much, but is still very good). Yes. it's could be. But point is most compression algorizum is protected by copyright. And each peer needs to accept(available) same compression for talking as *comunication*. At least there is no meaning "No open architecture" for communicat to world ;-) :Tom Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai E-Mail: amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 20:34:21 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA21127 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:34:21 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA21121 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:34:12 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30809>; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:35:22 +0100 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:35:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Atsushi Murai cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <9506130306.AA00040@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Atsushi Murai wrote: > Sorry I don't have data for handy but when I try to ping the other side > which is running iij-ppp with the compression by ISDN TA, I can get a RTP > around 50ms. Is that considered good? Sorry I don't know myself :) But I get 141ms on a 28.8k link. Half of 141 is 70, which is pretty close to 50. But that is only comparing 57.6k to 64k. Tom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 20:45:24 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA21249 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:45:24 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA21242 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:45:21 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13577; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:45:18 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id FAA19608; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:45:17 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA06167; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:43:30 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199506130343.FAA06167@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:43:30 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: root@dva.in-berlin.de In-Reply-To: <199506121731.KAA02459@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 10:31:01 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 598 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > I doubt it would help you very much. The final release work has been > > done on a branch that's currently being back-integrated into the head > > of the CVS tree. So the last regular CTM update will miss the fixes > > from the branch. > > And /usr/src and thus ctm on freefall was cvs update -r RELENG_2_0_5 > about 2 weeks ago, so the CTM's are following right along... Didn't knew this. That makes it different. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 20:52:18 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA21380 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:52:18 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA21373 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:52:11 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA06987; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:50:07 +1000 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:50:07 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199506130350.NAA06987@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> The user mode ppp seems slower (1.3 KB/s compared to 1.55 KB/s). Maybe >> a configuration problem on my part but I got the asyncmap right (I think). >Of course. Remember that you have to do a context switch to process >every packet. That doesn't come for free. The context switches don't stop zmodem from being faster than the kernel ppp even when the packet sizes are large. Perhaps I haven't set up pppd properly (I only use it to test it and use the default options) or something is not streaming properly. The kernel mode ppp has a hack for low ping latency. This saves an average of 5ms per end. Again, this should have little effect for large transmissions if everything is streaming properly. kernel ppp is inefficiently programmed. On a 486DX2/66 with a 16550 UART, the input overheads for 115200 bps are approximately: termios(raw) 6.3% cslip 7% ppp 9% These overheads include delivery of packets to an application that throws the packets away. About 3% of each overhead is for the lowest level of the driver (which handles interrupts and stores the input in a buffer). Thus for ppp, about 66% of the overhead is for the protocol and for delivery of packets to the user. It might be possibele for a user mode ppp to improve on this, but not by much since it has to pay for the termios(raw) protocol and packet delivery. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 21:31:16 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22687 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:31:16 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA22667 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:31:13 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14202; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 06:31:10 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA20087 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 06:31:09 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA06318 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:54:04 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199506130354.FAA06318@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:54:04 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) In-Reply-To: <199506122107.OAA02998@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 02:07:45 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1363 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > It was just before you closed CTM for the tagging/merge after the release. > > I'd say what all CTMers have is either -current (stopped around June, 1st) or > > 2.0.5R if src-cur was made from the RELENG_2_0_5 branch and not from > > -current (which I doubt). > > DO I HAVE TO YELL THIS, /usr/src on freefall WAS on the RELENG_2_0_5 > branch 2 days after I branched the thing!!!! You do not have to yell this, Rod. Calm down, and remember that not everybody on this list is within a 10-minute-SMTP turnaround access. Ollivier did only incidentally have the same thoughts as me. (Btw., it has not been publically announced that freefall's /usr/src has been up to RELENG_2_0_5, or I must have missed it when digging through my mail pile after the vacation. I'm pretty damned sure that there hasn't been any announcement in ctm-announce, which is the CTM announcement list for all CTM'ers, I think.) And I _never_ offered public CVS access for anybody. I've only been referring to the fact that _I_ have the CVS available -- but that's certainly no news for the most on this list (and I don't see any reason why I would not allow to mention *this*). Just to set this straight... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 21:31:16 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22689 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:31:16 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA22669 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:31:14 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14211; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 06:31:12 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id GAA20093 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 06:31:11 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA06378 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 06:06:44 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199506130406.GAA06378@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: CVS and FreeBSD 2.0.5/2.1/2.2 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 06:06:44 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) In-Reply-To: <199506121841.LAA02608@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 11:41:40 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 880 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > [2.1-stable] > Not ``random internet users'', there have been many requests for > something between RELEASE and CURRENT. Stable will be basically > the last release + critical bug fixes. 2.1 is going to be 2.0.5R > + what ever CRITICAL bug fixes David gets done between now and > when he says it is done. Does this mean that we should pass any and all 2.1 bug fixed through David (or someone else), or are we allowed to performa ``obvious'' fixes ourselves until a final XXX-freeze date is reached? I don't think of trying to break the 2.1 tree, but i'm afraid it will be too much work for the `who' who has to approve all fixes. Perhaps this is also time to add a Branch: field to our commit logs. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 21:32:40 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22863 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:32:40 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA22853 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:32:34 -0700 Received: from tama3.spec.co.jp (tama3 [202.32.13.252]) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with SMTP id NAA27914; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:25:05 +0900 Message-Id: <9506130434.AA00041@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:34:34 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai To: tom@uniserve.com Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AL-Mail 0.94Beta Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Tom Samplonius wrote: : :On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Atsushi Murai wrote: : :> Sorry I don't have data for handy but when I try to ping the other side :> which is running iij-ppp with the compression by ISDN TA, I can get a RTP :> around 50ms. : : Is that considered good? Sorry I don't know myself :) But I get 141ms :on a 28.8k link. Half of 141 is 70, which is pretty close to 50. But :that is only comparing 57.6k to 64k. I think it's not bad against pppd(kernel-ppp). process interruption will be occured every 10ms(?) as CPU ticks. :Tom -- Atsushi Murai E-Mail: amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 22:08:02 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA27467 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:08:02 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA27331 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:07:50 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30765>; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:08:36 +0100 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:08:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Atsushi Murai cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <9506130434.AA00041@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Atsushi Murai wrote: > : Is that considered good? Sorry I don't know myself :) But I get 141ms > :on a 28.8k link. Half of 141 is 70, which is pretty close to 50. But > :that is only comparing 57.6k to 64k. > > I think it's not bad against pppd(kernel-ppp). process interruption > will be occured every 10ms(?) as CPU ticks. I should have added that those times are *not* for FreeBSD pppd. Tom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 22:22:02 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA04628 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:22:02 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA04577 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:21:53 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA04852 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:21:56 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506130521.WAA04852@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: CVS and FreeBSD 2.0.5/2.1/2.2 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:21:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199506130406.GAA06378@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jun 13, 95 06:06:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2242 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > [2.1-stable] > > > Not ``random internet users'', there have been many requests for > > something between RELEASE and CURRENT. Stable will be basically > > the last release + critical bug fixes. 2.1 is going to be 2.0.5R > > + what ever CRITICAL bug fixes David gets done between now and > > when he says it is done. > > Does this mean that we should pass any and all 2.1 bug fixed through > David (or someone else), or are we allowed to performa ``obvious'' > fixes ourselves until a final XXX-freeze date is reached? Others are *not* to commit anything to the 2.1 branch, see mail in my commit message, and the mail I have sent to the list. I can tell from the question you did not really read my mail on this subject or this would have been clear. Others are working on FreeBSD 2.2 now, you should make all commits there. If we (the release engineering team) sees a commit for what we feel is a critical enough situation that it should be fixed in 2.1 we (the release team) will pull those changes into the branch with a cvs update -j operation, or a commit of the changes in appropriate form if they don't just drop right in. > I don't think of trying to break the 2.1 tree, but i'm afraid it will > be too much work for the `who' who has to approve all fixes. It is too much work fixing the bugs if we don't review them before they go into the release branch. 2.0.5 is looking pretty good, and there is not that much to be fixed in it before 2.1 rolls. David and myself still want to try for an end of July 2.1 Alpha release to start the test cycle (or I think that was the date David has been througing around). This means we have 6 weeks to fix the bugs before we go to critical mode only. > Perhaps this is also time to add a Branch: field to our commit logs. Working on it.. cvs does that normally, something in our perl stuff is stripping it out. And I am not a very good perl hack, but will get it fixed in the next day or two, but first I need to get the new sup stuff up and going (tree is checking out right now). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Jun 12 22:26:59 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06677 for current-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:26:59 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA06609 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:26:52 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA05109 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:26:55 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506130526.WAA05109@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:26:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199506130354.FAA06318@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jun 13, 95 05:54:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1803 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > It was just before you closed CTM for the tagging/merge after the release. > > > I'd say what all CTMers have is either -current (stopped around June, 1st) or > > > 2.0.5R if src-cur was made from the RELENG_2_0_5 branch and not from > > > -current (which I doubt). > > > > DO I HAVE TO YELL THIS, /usr/src on freefall WAS on the RELENG_2_0_5 > > branch 2 days after I branched the thing!!!! > > You do not have to yell this, Rod. Calm down, and remember that not > everybody on this list is within a 10-minute-SMTP turnaround access. I think I will just quite sending stuff to the lists all togeather, it seems that people are speed reading things and skipping messages all the time as I get so many duplicate questions that have been answered in either -current or on the commit list a week before all these redundant questions come in. Mine as well just do things, wait for some one to ask then post my message about what it is that I did as it seems the recall span for many of our readers is too short. > Ollivier did only incidentally have the same thoughts as me. (Btw., > it has not been publically announced that freefall's /usr/src has been > up to RELENG_2_0_5, or I must have missed it when digging through my > mail pile after the vacation. I'm pretty damned sure that there > hasn't been any announcement in ctm-announce, which is the CTM > announcement list for all CTM'ers, I think.) I didn't announce it on the ctm-announce list, it was in the -current mail list since it effected all sup's, ftp's and ctm's of the source tree. Ie, it effected what WAS -current for FreeBSD. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 00:32:39 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA05109 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 00:32:39 -0700 Received: from mpp.com ([204.157.201.242]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA05094 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 00:32:35 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA03409; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 02:29:53 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199506130729.CAA03409@mpp.com> Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 02:29:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506130350.NAA06987@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jun 13, 95 01:50:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1332 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The kernel mode ppp has a hack for low ping latency. This saves an average > of 5ms per end. Again, this should have little effect for large transmissions > if everything is streaming properly. > > kernel ppp is inefficiently programmed. On a 486DX2/66 with a 16550 UART, > the input overheads for 115200 bps are approximately: > > termios(raw) 6.3% > cslip 7% > ppp 9% > > These overheads include delivery of packets to an application that throws > the packets away. About 3% of each overhead is for the lowest level of > the driver (which handles interrupts and stores the input in a buffer). > Thus for ppp, about 66% of the overhead is for the protocol and for > delivery of packets to the user. It might be possibele for a user mode > ppp to improve on this, but not by much since it has to pay for the > termios(raw) protocol and packet delivery. > > Bruce I guess that I will have to run some user-mode/kernel-mode tests myself. If it really does turn out that the kernel-mode ppp interface is poorly implemented, I could probably be talked into trying to make it better, especially since I'm stuck with a ppp-only ISP now. If anyone has any suggestions towards this goal, let me know. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@legarto.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 02:49:40 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA29168 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 02:49:40 -0700 Received: from whisker.internet-eireann.ie (whisker.internet-eireann.ie [194.9.34.204]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA29154 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 02:49:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whisker.internet-eireann.ie (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00324; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:47:10 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: whisker.internet-eireann.ie: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mike Pritchard cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 13 Jun 1995 02:29:53 CDT." <199506130729.CAA03409@mpp.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:47:10 +0100 Message-ID: <322.803036830@whisker.internet-eireann.ie> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I guess that I will have to run some user-mode/kernel-mode tests > myself. If it really does turn out that the kernel-mode > ppp interface is poorly implemented, I could probably be talked > into trying to make it better, especially since I'm stuck with a ppp-only I'm sort of inclined to say that the user-mode ppp is really the way to go, and any attempts to improve ppp support in general would probably be better directed there. Having something that works seamlessly for dial-on-demand, generates proper debugging information, do proper integrated dialing and supports advanced features like predictor-1 compression is so far superior to what's provided by pppd that I can't see any reason to use anything else now. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 03:48:32 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA10581 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 03:48:32 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA10542 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 03:48:23 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA20506; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:43:01 +1000 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:43:01 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199506131043.UAA20506@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, mpp@legarto.minn.net Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >I guess that I will have to run some user-mode/kernel-mode tests >myself. If it really does turn out that the kernel-mode >ppp interface is poorly implemented, I could probably be talked >into trying to make it better, especially since I'm stuck with a ppp-only >ISP now. If anyone has any suggestions towards this goal, let >me know. The kernel-mode ppp efficiency is good enough for one line. At most it can be improved by 6% at 115200 bps (sustained) or 1.5% at 28800 bps (average) on a 486DX2/66. You wouldn't notice 1.5% overhead. However, if you have 50 lines then you would notice 75% overhead. 50 lines at 28800 is only 1/7 of an ethernet's bandwidth so 75% overhead seems excessive. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 04:54:07 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA25532 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 04:54:07 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA25479 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 04:53:57 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA23001; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 21:49:06 +1000 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 21:49:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199506131149.VAA23001@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: amurai@spec.co.jp, tom@uniserve.com Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> But Predictor-1 will try compression whole date when talk to peer ppp. >> This will give us two advantage as follows: >> >> 1. Decrese system over head due to reducing a sio H/W interruption. >> (H/W interruption is required big cpu time especially latest cpu) > What about the extra CPU time and extra latency required for the actual >compression? The CPU time is smaller than the saved (interrupt + i/o + sio protocol) time if the cpu is sufficiently fast. (A faster cpu reduces the compression and sio protocol times but has less effect on the interrupt time and almost no effect on the i/o time). Serial i/o is fairly efficient in FreeBSD, so "sufficiently fast" is about as fast as a P90 if compression is the same speed as compress(1) and the compression ratio is 50%. The latency should rarely be larger - if compression is worth doing, then it must be much faster than serial i/o. Of course, you lose both CPU time and latency for incompressible data. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 09:16:21 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA13620 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:16:21 -0700 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA13606 ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:16:19 -0700 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.3.6) id AA01956; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:16:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:16:19 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9506131616.AA01956@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <322.803036830@whisker.internet-eireann.ie> References: <199506130729.CAA03409@mpp.com> <322.803036830@whisker.internet-eireann.ie> Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk < said: > predictor-1 compression is so far superior to what's provided by > pppd that I can't see any reason to use anything else now. Unless you actually care about latency or jitter, which some users definitely will. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 09:27:01 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15375 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:27:01 -0700 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA15365 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:27:00 -0700 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.3.6) id AA01992; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:26:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:26:01 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9506131626.AA01992@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Bruce Evans Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <199506130350.NAA06987@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199506130350.NAA06987@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk < said: > The context switches don't stop zmodem from being faster than the kernel ppp > even when the packet sizes are large. Zmodem doesn't have to do any context switches in order to operate. IIJ-PPP by definition does. Kernel PPP does not. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 10:25:21 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA21866 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:25:21 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA21822 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:25:15 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA20557; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 19:25:05 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA25198 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 19:25:05 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA07685 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 18:16:26 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199506131616.SAA07685@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: CVS and FreeBSD 2.0.5/2.1/2.2 To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 18:16:25 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current users) In-Reply-To: <199506130521.WAA04852@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 10:21:56 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 856 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > Does this mean that we should pass any and all 2.1 bug fixed through > > David (or someone else), or are we allowed to performa ``obvious'' > > fixes ourselves until a final XXX-freeze date is reached? > > Others are *not* to commit anything to the 2.1 branch, see mail in my > commit message, and the mail I have sent to the list. I can tell > from the question you did not really read my mail on this subject > or this would have been clear. It was not entirely clear, at least not from the message i've been replying to. (The commit message appeared later, and i've just read it -- makes ~ 9 hours difference.) That's why i have been asking -- and now it _is_ clear. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 10:30:02 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA22851 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:30:02 -0700 Received: from silver.sms.fi (silver.sms.fi [193.64.137.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA22818 ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:29:56 -0700 Received: (from pete@localhost) by silver.sms.fi (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA00370; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:29:46 +0300 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:29:46 +0300 Message-Id: <199506131729.UAA00370@silver.sms.fi> From: Petri Helenius To: Garrett Wollman Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers In-Reply-To: <9506131616.AA01956@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> References: <199506130729.CAA03409@mpp.com> <322.803036830@whisker.internet-eireann.ie> <9506131616.AA01956@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Garrett Wollman writes: > < said: > > > predictor-1 compression is so far superior to what's provided by > > pppd that I can't see any reason to use anything else now. > > Unless you actually care about latency or jitter, which some users > definitely will. > > -GAWollman > Actually, packet-by-packet compression that predictor-1 does improve both your latency and lessen your jitter, specially when compared to letting the modem mess with your data (which it does not understand a bit about). The latency is usually about halved (with regular HTTP or telnet data) and jitter is minimized, specially on low-speed links. Pete From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 10:37:41 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24224 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:37:41 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24216 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:37:40 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00943; Tue, 13 Jun 95 11:30:40 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9506131730.AA00943@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 11:30:40 MDT Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199506130526.WAA05109@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jun 12, 95 10:26:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I think I will just quite sending stuff to the lists all togeather, > it seems that people are speed reading things and skipping messages > all the time as I get so many duplicate questions that have been > answered in either -current or on the commit list a week before > all these redundant questions come in. Mine as well just do things, > wait for some one to ask then post my message about what it is that > I did as it seems the recall span for many of our readers is too > short. I have noticed absurd propagation delays that weren't there before the lists were sorted, the delays being only on some lists. There is an 8 hour discrepancy betwwen hackers and questions in some cases, whereas before at least I knew that the messages had come in from each list were equally delayed. Possibly what is happening is that what you are seeing is the result of having crossposted the message between hackers and current, so you in effect are seeing the results of two mailings. If instead of not posting, you delayed all responses by 8 hours, then you can be sure all questions/comments for a particular topic have had a chance to make it to the detination. Maybe 32 hours would be a better 8hr + timezone overlap so as to ensure that the qestion and response weren't in the same window. Honestly, I was getting "OK" response times before, "Good" response times after the list sort, and now I get a mix of "Great", "Good", "OK", "Bad", and "Absolutely Abysmal" since the list split. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 11:36:21 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA02443 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:36:21 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA02437 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:36:20 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA05399; Tue, 13 Jun 95 12:29:04 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9506131829.AA05399@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: GENERIC kernel & some basic UNIX pointers To: wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 12:29:03 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9506131626.AA01992@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett Wollman" at Jun 13, 95 12:26:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > The context switches don't stop zmodem from being faster than the kernel ppp > > even when the packet sizes are large. > > Zmodem doesn't have to do any context switches in order to operate. > IIJ-PPP by definition does. Kernel PPP does not. Zmodem is also unidirectional sliding window and doesn't have the normal request/response latency of a TCP connection over PPP. Actually, we are starting more and more to need an async I/O mechanism to cause kernel calls to be non-blocking to avoid context switches and latency as a result of blocking operations. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 13:10:24 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06612 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:10:24 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06591 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:10:18 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id QAA11829; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:04:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: Terry Lambert cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9506131730.AA00943@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > I have noticed absurd propagation delays that weren't there before > the lists were sorted, the delays being only on some lists. huh!! > There is an 8 hour discrepancy betwwen hackers and questions in some > cases, whereas before at least I knew that the messages had come in > from each list were equally delayed. both hackers and questions are using bulk_mailer to distribute the messages. the delays should be similar. announce, hackers and questions are the only lists that are using bulk_mailer, they are the largest lists that freefall carries. the rest use sendmail with one-time sorted lists. > Possibly what is happening is that what you are seeing is the result > of having crossposted the message between hackers and current, so > you in effect are seeing the results of two mailings. yes, hackers and Current, not questions > Honestly, I was getting "OK" response times before, "Good" response > times after the list sort, and now I get a mix of "Great", "Good", > "OK", "Bad", and "Absolutely Abysmal" since the list split. each list has mixed response times, or a mix when comparing the lists? Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 14:00:02 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA12951 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 14:00:02 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA12935 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:59:58 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA16260; Tue, 13 Jun 95 14:51:45 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9506132051.AA16260@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 14:51:45 MDT Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Jun 13, 95 04:04:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Honestly, I was getting "OK" response times before, "Good" response > > times after the list sort, and now I get a mix of "Great", "Good", > > "OK", "Bad", and "Absolutely Abysmal" since the list split. > > each list has mixed response times, or a mix when comparing the lists? A mix when comparing lists. Which would account for Rod seeing a question, posting an answer, and having someone else who has seen only the question (or neither the question or the answer) posting the same question, with Rod seeing the second one after the first by dint of the original posting that caused the question to be asked having been crossposted. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 16:43:09 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA24184 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:43:09 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24174 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:43:06 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id TAA17759; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 19:37:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 19:37:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Which CTM# == 2.0.5R? To: Terry Lambert cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9506132051.AA16260@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Honestly, I was getting "OK" response times before, "Good" response > > > times after the list sort, and now I get a mix of "Great", "Good", > > > "OK", "Bad", and "Absolutely Abysmal" since the list split. > > > > each list has mixed response times, or a mix when comparing the lists? > > A mix when comparing lists. yes, i understand how i created the confusion....well...let's say i had to test it out on some lists before converting the rest. ;) ALL the freebsd lists are now running with bulk_mailer. i have NOT converted the cvs lists to bulk_mailer. > > Which would account for Rod seeing a question, posting an answer, and > having someone else who has seen only the question (or neither the > question or the answer) posting the same question, with Rod seeing > the second one after the first by dint of the original posting > that caused the question to be asked having been crossposted. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 21:49:41 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA05926 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 21:49:41 -0700 Received: from quack.kfu.com (quack.kfu.com [204.147.226.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA05915 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 21:49:38 -0700 Received: (from nsayer@localhost) by quack.kfu.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA02254 for current@freebsd.org; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 21:49:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 21:49:33 -0700 From: Nick Sayer Message-Id: <199506140449.VAA02254@quack.kfu.com> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Problems with this morning's sup Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just sup'd after having been away since February or so, hoping to get something close enough to 2.0.5 without having to do a reinstall. 1. sed s/meouted/mrouted/ < /usr/src/usr.sbin/Makefile 2. After fixing that, a make world gets as far as half way through building libc, whereupon it crashes with this little bit of noise: rc/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/net/res_mkquery.c -o res_mkquery.o cc -O2 -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/s rc/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/net/res_query.c -o res_query.o cc -O2 -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/s rc/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/net/res_send.c -o res_send.o cc -O2 -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/s rc/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/net/send.c -o send.o cc -O2 -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/s rc/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c -o ether_addr.o /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_line': /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:80: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_aton': /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:92: storage size of `o' isn't known /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_ntoa': /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:111: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:111: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:111: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:112: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:112: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:112: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_ntohost': /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:129: storage size of `local_ether' isn't know n /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:166: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_hostton': /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:188: storage size of `local_ether' isn't know n /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:213: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:226: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type *** Error code 1 Stop. If anayone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. If this was something warned of in current, then I'm sorry but I've only recently resubscribed. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Jun 13 23:20:56 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA13569 for current-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 23:20:56 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA13484 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 23:20:48 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA08119; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:20:44 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA29622 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:20:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA00541 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:04:30 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199506140604.IAA00541@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Problems with this morning's sup To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:04:30 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) In-Reply-To: <199506140449.VAA02254@quack.kfu.com> from "Nick Sayer" at Jun 13, 95 09:49:33 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1034 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nick Sayer wrote: > > 2. After fixing that, a make world gets as far as half way through > building libc, whereupon it crashes with this little bit of noise: > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:80: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_aton': > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:92: storage size of `o' isn't known > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_ntoa': > If anayone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. If this was something > warned of in current, then I'm sorry but I've only recently > resubscribed. Nope, Garrett didn't warn on -current. I've only seen his commits of the new mrouting code. Looks like you first need to perform a ``cd /usr/src/include; make install'' before compiling the lib. ``make world'' is supposed to always do it in the correct sequence, but it's rather overkill. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 05:33:06 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA15641 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 05:33:06 -0700 Received: from quack.kfu.com (quack.kfu.com [204.147.226.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA15628 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 05:33:02 -0700 Received: (from nsayer@localhost) by quack.kfu.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA06881 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 05:32:53 -0700 From: Nick Sayer Message-Id: <199506141232.FAA06881@quack.kfu.com> Subject: Re: Problems with this morning's sup To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 05:32:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199506140604.IAA00541@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jun 14, 95 08:04:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1305 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > As Nick Sayer wrote: > > > > 2. After fixing that, a make world gets as far as half way through > > building libc, whereupon it crashes with this little bit of noise: > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:80: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_aton': > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:92: storage size of `o' isn't known > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_ntoa': > > If anayone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. If this was something > > warned of in current, then I'm sorry but I've only recently > > resubscribed. > Nope, Garrett didn't warn on -current. I've only seen his commits of > the new mrouting code. Looks like you first need to perform a ``cd > /usr/src/include; make install'' before compiling the lib. ``make > world'' is supposed to always do it in the correct sequence, but it's > rather overkill. Humph. Is there a way to sup 2.0.5-RELEASE? If not, is there a way to fix this? :-) I know I could ftp 2.0.5-RELEASE, but sup is more convenient. -- Nick Sayer | N6QQQ @ N0ARY.#NORCAL.CA.USA.NOAM | "pro-choice" == "pro-abortion" +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest' | "pro-choice" == "anti-adoption" URL: http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/ | From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 07:45:27 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA26033 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 07:45:27 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA26024 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 07:45:25 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA18579 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 10:48:37 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199506141448.KAA18579@ns1.win.net> Subject: usr.sbin/Makefile "meouted" To: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 10:48:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 45 Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Should it be "mrouted"? today's sup. FYI From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 09:31:06 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA07628 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:31:06 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA07622 ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:31:05 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA15923; Wed, 14 Jun 95 10:24:18 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9506141624.AA15923@cs.weber.edu> Subject: LIST PING To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 10:24:17 MDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am pinging the lists. 32 messages, not all of them BSD, in a 12 hour period is blatantly abnormal. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 09:33:51 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA08019 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:33:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08013 ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:33:50 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA06360; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:33:44 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199506141633.JAA06360@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: LIST PING To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9506141624.AA15923@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 14, 95 10:24:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 414 Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I am pinging the lists. 32 messages, not all of them BSD, in a 12 hour > period is blatantly abnormal. It's perfectly normal after a release. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 13:23:44 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA28073 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:23:44 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28067 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:23:39 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01696; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:23:18 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506142023.NAA01696@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Problems with this morning's sup To: nsayer@quack.kfu.com (Nick Sayer) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199506141232.FAA06881@quack.kfu.com> from "Nick Sayer" at Jun 14, 95 05:32:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1652 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > J Wunsch writes: > > > As Nick Sayer wrote: > > > > > > 2. After fixing that, a make world gets as far as half way through > > > building libc, whereupon it crashes with this little bit of noise: > > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:80: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type > > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_aton': > > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c:92: storage size of `o' isn't known > > > /usr/src/lib/libc/net/ether_addr.c: In function `ether_ntoa': > > > > If anayone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. If this was something > > > warned of in current, then I'm sorry but I've only recently > > > resubscribed. > > > Nope, Garrett didn't warn on -current. I've only seen his commits of > > the new mrouting code. Looks like you first need to perform a ``cd > > /usr/src/include; make install'' before compiling the lib. ``make > > world'' is supposed to always do it in the correct sequence, but it's > > rather overkill. > > Humph. Is there a way to sup 2.0.5-RELEASE? If not, is there a way > to fix this? :-) I know I could ftp 2.0.5-RELEASE, but sup is more > convenient. There is not, and probably never will be a way to sup frozen releases, the best we can do is what I am working on now, and that is setting up the -stable set of sup targets. At this very moment that tree is almost 2.0.5 (it is 2.0.5R merged into the HEAD of the main cvs branch so the only difference is RCS ID strings.) This will become the 2.1 release. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 14:28:23 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA00613 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 14:28:23 -0700 Received: from jolt.eng.umd.edu (jolt.eng.umd.edu [129.2.102.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA00607 ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 14:28:22 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by jolt.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id RAA21856; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:28:16 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id RAA12654; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:28:17 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:28:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LIST PING In-Reply-To: <9506141624.AA15923@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 14 Jun 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > I am pinging the lists. 32 messages, not all of them BSD, in a 12 hour > period is blatantly abnormal. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > Curious. I just got this, 17:24 Eastern. I sent my response to you and hackers about 20 minutes ago, I got it 20 seconds after I got this. You must be at the tail of the list. Matter of fact, when I checked the majordomo who response, you were near the end of the list. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 18:45:05 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA14489 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 18:45:05 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA14483 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 18:45:03 -0700 Received: from s1.elec.uq.edu.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Thu, 15 Jun 1995 11:44:37 +1000 Received: from s4.elec.uq.edu.au by s1.elec.uq.edu.au (4.0/SMI-4.0) id AA13645; Thu, 15 Jun 95 11:33:01 EST From: clary@elec.uq.oz.au (Clary Harridge) Message-Id: <9506150133.AA13645@s1.elec.uq.edu.au> Subject: kernel build fails, NMBCLUSTERS undefined To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 11:43:49 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 666 Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Current release dated Jun 13 fails to build a kernel. cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DDISKLESS -DI486_CPU -DNCONS=4 -DUCONSOLE -DCOMPAT_43 -DUSER_LDT -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 -DTIMEZONE=0 -DDST=0 -DMAXUSERS=10 param.c param.c:89: `NMBCLUSTERS' undeclared here (not in a function) *** Error code 1 Is there a fix for this please? -- regards Dept. of Electrical Engineering, Clary Harridge University of Queensland, QLD, Australia, 4072 Phone: +61-7-365-3636 Fax: +61-7-365-4999 INTERNET: clary@elec.uq.edu.au From owner-freebsd-current Wed Jun 14 21:29:06 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA20343 for current-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 21:29:06 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA20336 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 21:29:04 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA14027; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 21:29:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA11334; Wed, 14 Jun 1995 21:29:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199506150429.VAA11334@corbin.Root.COM> To: clary@elec.uq.oz.au (Clary Harridge) cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kernel build fails, NMBCLUSTERS undefined In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Jun 95 11:43:49 +1000." <9506150133.AA13645@s1.elec.uq.edu.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 21:29:05 -0700 Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Current release dated Jun 13 fails to build a kernel. > >cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DDISKLESS -DI486_CPU -DNCONS=4 -DUCONSOLE -DCOMPAT_43 -DUSER_LDT -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 -DTIMEZONE=0 -DDST=0 -DMAXUSERS=10 param.c >param.c:89: `NMBCLUSTERS' undeclared here (not in a function) >*** Error code 1 > >Is there a fix for this please? I think either your sources are incompletely updated or you didn't re-"config" before building the new kernel. Lines 89 and 90 in the current param.c (rev. 1.9) are a blank line and a comment. -DG From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 02:36:38 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA01668 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 02:36:38 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA01636 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 02:36:29 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA23452; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:38:19 +0100 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:38:18 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: current@freebsd.org Subject: NFSv3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am going to commit the changes needed to support NFSv3 to FreeBSD-current early next week (after I have managed to complete a make world using an NFSv3 kernel that is). The v2 support is working with some degree of confidence and the v3 support has been tested on loopback mounts. I don't have any non-FreeBSD v3 servers to test it on so this code really needs some compatability testing. The main things to note are that the user<->kernel interface has changed slightly. This means that NFS clients MUST rebuild mount_nfs after getting these changes and NFS servers MUST rebuilt mountd. A few other NFS dependant utilities will also need rebuilding. -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 08:31:25 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA20873 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 08:31:25 -0700 Received: from bigdipper.iagi.net (bigdipper.iagi.net [198.6.14.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA20864 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 08:31:23 -0700 Received: (from adhir@localhost) by bigdipper.iagi.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03262; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:31:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:31:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Alok K. Dhir" To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Nick Sayer , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with this morning's sup In-Reply-To: <199506142023.NAA01696@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What machine is the "stable" target suppable from? Thanks > > There is not, and probably never will be a way to sup frozen releases, > the best we can do is what I am working on now, and that is setting > up the -stable set of sup targets. At this very moment that tree > is almost 2.0.5 (it is 2.0.5R merged into the HEAD of the main cvs > branch so the only difference is RCS ID strings.) This will become > the 2.1 release. > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD > Alok K. Dhir Internet Access Group, Inc. adhir@iagi.net (301) 652-0484 Fax: (301) 652-0649 http://www.iagi.net From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 10:08:27 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA26789 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:08:27 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA26772 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:08:14 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA24616 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:08:01 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA13736 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:08:00 +0200 Message-Id: <199506161708.TAA13736@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: current@freebsd.org Subject: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:07:59 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks. I am getting a bit desparate now. I would _really_ like to start cleaning up the crypto code, and have made some specific proposals about haw I would like to do it, and asked for a mentor/buddy/tester to check it out before I commit. Is there no-one out there who is interested in this? To summarise my proposals again (in no particular order): 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called `crypto' and `krb'. 2) I would like to update our DES library with some code I have from Eric Young, including a secure (encrypting) telnet. He is the original author of our DES library, and he converted Bones to eBones (Encrypting Bones). 3) I want to fix some nasty NIS/Kerberos incosistencies. 4) I want to complete the RPC work. 5) etc... M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 10:29:07 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA28146 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:29:07 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA28138 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:29:04 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12284; Fri, 16 Jun 95 11:22:14 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9506161722.AA12284@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: NFSv3 To: dfr@render.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 11:22:13 MDT Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Jun 16, 95 10:38:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I am going to commit the changes needed to support NFSv3 to > FreeBSD-current early next week (after I have managed to complete a make > world using an NFSv3 kernel that is). Over an NFS mounted NFSv2 link, and then one the other direction 2->3, I hope. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 10:38:13 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29861 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:38:13 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29843 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:38:08 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA05071; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:37:33 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506161737.KAA05071@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Problems with this morning's sup To: adhir@iagi.net (Alok K. Dhir) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nsayer@quack.kfu.com, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Alok K. Dhir" at Jun 16, 95 11:31:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1156 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > What machine is the "stable" target suppable from? > > Thanks Do to my move and current work load I have not been able to get the sup targets for the stable branch set up. I have scheduled that work for this weekend. There will be an announce sent out with full details when I have it working. > > There is not, and probably never will be a way to sup frozen releases, > > the best we can do is what I am working on now, and that is setting > > up the -stable set of sup targets. At this very moment that tree > > is almost 2.0.5 (it is 2.0.5R merged into the HEAD of the main cvs > > branch so the only difference is RCS ID strings.) This will become > > the 2.1 release. > > > > > > -- > > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > > Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD > > > > Alok K. Dhir > Internet Access Group, Inc. > adhir@iagi.net > (301) 652-0484 Fax: (301) 652-0649 > http://www.iagi.net > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 11:06:13 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA06468 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:06:13 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06437 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:06:10 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA05239; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:05:35 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506161805.LAA05239@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199506161708.TAA13736@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 16, 95 07:07:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1367 Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi folks. > > I am getting a bit desparate now. I would _really_ like to start cleaning > up the crypto code, and have made some specific proposals about haw I would > like to do it, and asked for a mentor/buddy/tester to check it out before > I commit. Is there no-one out there who is interested in this? > > To summarise my proposals again (in no particular order): > > 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' > and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a > separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called > `crypto' and `krb'. Sounds like renaming for the sake of renaming to me :-(. If eBones is going to remain seperate leave it called eBones!! > 2) I would like to update our DES library with some code I have from Eric > Young, including a secure (encrypting) telnet. He is the original author > of our DES library, and he converted Bones to eBones (Encrypting Bones). I have no problem with this. > 3) I want to fix some nasty NIS/Kerberos incosistencies. I have no problem with this. > 4) I want to complete the RPC work. I have no problem with this. > 5) etc... Need more details... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 11:33:17 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA10766 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:33:17 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA10750 ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:33:01 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA24740; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:32:51 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA14459; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:32:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199506161832.UAA14459@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), current@freebsd.org, Wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:32:49 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > To summarise my proposals again (in no particular order): > > > > 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' > > and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a > > separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called > > `crypto' and `krb'. > > Sounds like renaming for the sake of renaming to me :-(. If eBones is > going to remain seperate leave it called eBones!! Yuk. I expressed myself very badly here. At the moment, the source is split in two, `secure' and `eBones'. I want to merge these together into `crypto' (or whatever name - it does not matter to me) and have a more natural directory structure under that - sort of like the way it is done for src/gnu with usr.bin, usr.sbin, lib, include and so forth under that. The libraries in particular are too general to belong to one distribution only. As part of the distribution, ie when the tarballs get rolled, there should be a separating out of eBones, as not everybody will want Kerberised binaries, even though it makes most sense to have their source with the rest of the crypto stuff. At the moment we have the des.?? distribution, the krb.?? distribution, the ssecure.?? distribution and the ssebones.?? distribution. My proposal is that only the source gets merged. For the benefit of the -current users, I reckon we keep the MAKE_EBONES option in /etc/make.conf (I want to fix that up a bit though). > > 2) I would like to update our DES library with some code I have from Eric > > Young, including a secure (encrypting) telnet. He is the original author > > of our DES library, and he converted Bones to eBones (Encrypting Bones). > > I have no problem with this. Great! This will benefit from a merge. It is currently in secure, but uses (or can use) eBones features. > > 4) I want to complete the RPC work. > > I have no problem with this. Again, a merge will help. The libraries etc are global. > > 5) etc... > > Need more details... There are other bits of odd code like the encrypting extension to xntpd that have no other home, and will benefit from a cleanup. I cant think of any offhand now, but I'm sure there are more of these. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 11:40:13 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA11317 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:40:13 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11311 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:40:09 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA05460; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:39:37 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506161839.LAA05460@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org (FreeBSD current) In-Reply-To: <199506161832.UAA14459@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 16, 95 08:32:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2019 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > > > > To summarise my proposals again (in no particular order): > > > > > > 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' > > > and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a > > > separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called > > > `crypto' and `krb'. > > > > Sounds like renaming for the sake of renaming to me :-(. If eBones is > > going to remain seperate leave it called eBones!! > > Yuk. I expressed myself very badly here. At the moment, the source is split > in two, `secure' and `eBones'. I want to merge these together into `crypto' > (or whatever name - it does not matter to me) and have a more natural > directory structure under that - sort of like the way it is done for src/gnu > with usr.bin, usr.sbin, lib, include and so forth under that. The libraries > in particular are too general to belong to one distribution only. > > As part of the distribution, ie when the tarballs get rolled, there should > be a separating out of eBones, as not everybody will want Kerberised > binaries, even though it makes most sense to have their source with the > rest of the crypto stuff. At the moment we have the des.?? distribution, > the krb.?? distribution, the ssecure.?? distribution and the ssebones.?? > distribution. My proposal is that only the source gets merged. > > For the benefit of the -current users, I reckon we keep the MAKE_EBONES > option in /etc/make.conf (I want to fix that up a bit though). I disagree. eBones was to and does replace the 4.4BSD lite supplied Kerberos tree. I can use ``secure'' without eBones at all. If you bundle the two into one tree it is going to complicate things like sup targets, source tree management in src/Makefile, etc. Binary sets should match source sets, otherwise you are heading for trouble :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 11:48:09 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA11674 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:48:09 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11655 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:47:49 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA24771; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:47:27 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA14596; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:47:25 +0200 Message-Id: <199506161847.UAA14596@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org (FreeBSD current) Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:47:25 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > I disagree. eBones was to and does replace the 4.4BSD lite supplied > Kerberos tree. I can use ``secure'' without eBones at all. If you > bundle the two into one tree it is going to complicate things like > sup targets, source tree management in src/Makefile, etc. OK - I'll buy this. How would you then solve the problem of something currently sitting in secure that needs bits of eBones and vice versa? For example, in secure sits telnet[d] with obvious Kerberization. > Binary sets should match source sets, otherwise you are heading for > trouble :-(. I'd buy this if there was not so much crosstalk between the packages. Solutions? One possible one is to move libraries to secure? (yuk) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 11:56:05 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA12231 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:56:05 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA12221 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:56:00 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12539; Fri, 16 Jun 95 12:48:49 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9506161848.AA12539@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 12:48:48 MDT Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199506161708.TAA13736@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 16, 95 07:07:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I am getting a bit desparate now. I would _really_ like to start cleaning > up the crypto code, and have made some specific proposals about haw I would > like to do it, and asked for a mentor/buddy/tester to check it out before > I commit. Is there no-one out there who is interested in this? I don't have the test equipment, sorry. But I do have some comments. I have forwarded the whole message to a friend who dies have the equipment and may have an interest. > 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' > and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a > separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called > `crypto' and `krb'. I believe the eBones split is intentional to allow drop in plugging of crypto code to support the fact that many countries have export restrictions (hence your crypts stuff distribution in the first place). Am I wrong, or is this a sanitized exportable framework? The secure stuff is broken out so that people can get a cdrom or other binary distribution from the US and the crypt from elsewhere. Maybe you need to restate what it is you are attempting to do to meet the plug-in crypto goal? At the very least, this should clear up the confused perception of exactly what it is you are asking for (my current reaction is "I don't have one of those to give him because I don't know what one of those is"). I mean for all I know, you are only talking about a real code cleanup that has absolutely nothing to do with API severance points for export/import. > 2) I would like to update our DES library with some code I have from Eric > Young, including a secure (encrypting) telnet. He is the original author > of our DES library, and he converted Bones to eBones (Encrypting Bones). Good deal. > 3) I want to fix some nasty NIS/Kerberos incosistencies. Good deal. > 4) I want to complete the RPC work. Wonderful deal. > 5) etc... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 12:06:30 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA12670 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:06:30 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12623 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:06:11 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA24798; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:05:58 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA14823; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:05:56 +0200 Message-Id: <199506161905.VAA14823@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:05:56 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I don't have the test equipment, sorry. But I do have some comments. I > have forwarded the whole message to a friend who dies have the equipment > and may have an interest. Brilliant! The more the merrier! > > 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' > > and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a > > separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called > > `crypto' and `krb'. > > I believe the eBones split is intentional to allow drop in plugging of > crypto code to support the fact that many countries have export restrictions > (hence your crypts stuff distribution in the first place). Am I wrong, > or is this a sanitized exportable framework? Both are. The eBones and secure are sanitised. > The secure stuff is broken out so that people can get a cdrom or other > binary distribution from the US and the crypt from elsewhere. > > Maybe you need to restate what it is you are attempting to do to meet > the plug-in crypto goal? At the very least, this should clear up the > confused perception of exactly what it is you are asking for (my > current reaction is "I don't have one of those to give him because > I don't know what one of those is"). I mean for all I know, you are > only talking about a real code cleanup that has absolutely nothing to > do with API severance points for export/import. I phrased this badly. Here is a rephrase to Rod: (Message bones:90) From: Mark Murray Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:32:49 +0200 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), current@freebsd.org, Wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com > > To summarise my proposals again (in no particular order): > > > > 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' > > and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a > > separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called > > `crypto' and `krb'. > > Sounds like renaming for the sake of renaming to me :-(. If eBones is > going to remain seperate leave it called eBones!! Yuk. I expressed myself very badly here. At the moment, the source is split in two, `secure' and `eBones'. I want to merge these together into `crypto' (or whatever name - it does not matter to me) and have a more natural directory structure under that - sort of like the way it is done for src/gnu with usr.bin, usr.sbin, lib, include and so forth under that. The libraries in particular are too general to belong to one distribution only. As part of the distribution, ie when the tarballs get rolled, there should be a separating out of eBones, as not everybody will want Kerberised binaries, even though it makes most sense to have their source with the rest of the crypto stuff. At the moment we have the des.?? distribution, the krb.?? distribution, the ssecure.?? distribution and the ssebones.?? distribution. My proposal is that only the source gets merged. For the benefit of the -current users, I reckon we keep the MAKE_EBONES option in /etc/make.conf (I want to fix that up a bit though). > > 2) I would like to update our DES library with some code I have from Eric > > Young, including a secure (encrypting) telnet. He is the original author > > of our DES library, and he converted Bones to eBones (Encrypting Bones). > > I have no problem with this. Great! This will benefit from a merge. It is currently in secure, but uses (or can use) eBones features. > > 4) I want to complete the RPC work. > > I have no problem with this. Again, a merge will help. The libraries etc are global. > > 5) etc... > > Need more details... There are other bits of odd code like the encrypting extension to xntpd that have no other home, and will benefit from a cleanup. I cant think of any offhand now, but I'm sure there are more of these. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 12:12:41 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13072 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:12:41 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA13066 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:12:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA05550; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:12:07 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506161912.MAA05550@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mark@grondar.za, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org In-Reply-To: <199506161847.UAA14596@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 16, 95 08:47:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1448 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > > > I disagree. eBones was to and does replace the 4.4BSD lite supplied > > Kerberos tree. I can use ``secure'' without eBones at all. If you > > bundle the two into one tree it is going to complicate things like > > sup targets, source tree management in src/Makefile, etc. > > OK - I'll buy this. How would you then solve the problem of something > currently sitting in secure that needs bits of eBones and vice versa? > For example, in secure sits telnet[d] with obvious Kerberization. telnet[d] with kerberization should go in eBones, since eBones was to replace the kerberization stuff supplied by 4.4BSD lite. Garrett had some grand plan here, but has dropped the ball when the eBones stuff was done (Not his fault, this was taken over by some one else who has been unavaliable to maintain it). > > Binary sets should match source sets, otherwise you are heading for > > trouble :-(. > > I'd buy this if there was not so much crosstalk between the packages. > Solutions? One possible one is to move libraries to secure? (yuk) I need a better picture in my head of just what is going on in there right now. I have not looked at that part of the tree since it was changed from the original 4.4 lite code and am not so sure that the initial change was a good idea at all... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 12:35:22 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14168 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:35:22 -0700 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA14160 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:35:21 -0700 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.3.6) id AA05835; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:35:11 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:35:11 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9506161935.AA05835@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones In-Reply-To: <199506161912.MAA05550@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> References: <199506161847.UAA14596@grumble.grondar.za> <199506161912.MAA05550@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk < said: > telnet[d] with kerberization should go in eBones, since eBones was > to replace the kerberization stuff supplied by 4.4BSD lite. The Kerberized telnet/libtelnet/telnetd live in usr.bin/lib/libexec, since they are exportable. The Kerberized encrypting telnet/libtelnet/telnetd need to live elsewhere. Currently no effort is made to even compile these, but they can be made to work with not too much effort from the un-sanitized sources in /usr/src/secure. But, these are the original sources from Cray, and not the same as what Mark has. Given that we are going to rectify the latter, it is worth some time to think about what the right place to put it is. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 12:38:50 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14418 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:38:50 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA14394 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:38:07 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA24837; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:37:54 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA14966; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:37:53 +0200 Message-Id: <199506161937.VAA14966@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:37:52 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > telnet[d] with kerberization should go in eBones, since eBones was > to replace the kerberization stuff supplied by 4.4BSD lite. Garrett > had some grand plan here, but has dropped the ball when the eBones > stuff was done (Not his fault, this was taken over by some one else > who has been unavaliable to maintain it). So I take that going ahead and moving this (telnet[d]) will not be considered a hostile action? ;-) (I won't do any committing for a while - just till I get the feel of it). BTW - was the other person by any chance Geoff Rehmet? I have chatted to him on the phone and emailed him (A while back). You're right - he's busy! > > > Binary sets should match source sets, otherwise you are heading for > > > trouble :-(. > > > > I'd buy this if there was not so much crosstalk between the packages. > > Solutions? One possible one is to move libraries to secure? (yuk) > > I need a better picture in my head of just what is going on in there > right now. I have not looked at that part of the tree since it was > changed from the original 4.4 lite code and am not so sure that the > initial change was a good idea at all... You preferred the actual Kerberos? I know someone in Britain who has a 4.4 CDROM with this on and I could do a replacement job... M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 12:47:08 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14877 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:47:08 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA14869 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:47:03 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA05651; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:46:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506161946.MAA05651@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mark@grondar.za, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org In-Reply-To: <199506161937.VAA14966@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 16, 95 09:37:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1819 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > > > telnet[d] with kerberization should go in eBones, since eBones was > > to replace the kerberization stuff supplied by 4.4BSD lite. Garrett > > had some grand plan here, but has dropped the ball when the eBones > > stuff was done (Not his fault, this was taken over by some one else > > who has been unavaliable to maintain it). > > So I take that going ahead and moving this (telnet[d]) will not be > considered a hostile action? ;-) (I won't do any committing for a > while - just till I get the feel of it). I think between you, Garrett and myself we can come up with something that is workable. > BTW - was the other person by any chance Geoff Rehmet? I have chatted > to him on the phone and emailed him (A while back). You're right - > he's busy! Yes, it was Geoff, I couldn't pull the name off the top of my head and was too lazy to go look it up. > > > > Binary sets should match source sets, otherwise you are heading for > > > > trouble :-(. > > > > > > I'd buy this if there was not so much crosstalk between the packages. > > > Solutions? One possible one is to move libraries to secure? (yuk) > > > > I need a better picture in my head of just what is going on in there > > right now. I have not looked at that part of the tree since it was > > changed from the original 4.4 lite code and am not so sure that the > > initial change was a good idea at all... > > You preferred the actual Kerberos? I know someone in Britain who has a 4.4 > CDROM with this on and I could do a replacement job... Except that Kerberos is not exportable, so this would screw us up. If it was that simple I could reserect them from the CVS Attic area! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 12:56:20 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA15263 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:56:20 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA15245 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:55:34 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA24869; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:55:18 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA15069; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:55:17 +0200 Message-Id: <199506161955.VAA15069@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:55:16 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > > So I take that going ahead and moving this (telnet[d]) will not be > > considered a hostile action? ;-) (I won't do any committing for a > > while - just till I get the feel of it). > > I think between you, Garrett and myself we can come up with something > that is workable. Great. > > You preferred the actual Kerberos? I know someone in Britain who has a 4.4 > > CDROM with this on and I could do a replacement job... > > Except that Kerberos is not exportable, so this would screw us up. If it > was that simple I could reserect them from the CVS Attic area! No, listen. The code is already outside the US. Now that it is out, I can re-import it with impunity. :-> :-> :-> What you do with the attic is Your Problem (tm). M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 13:07:18 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA15658 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:07:18 -0700 Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA15646 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:07:15 -0700 Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.3.6) id AA05933; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 16:06:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 16:06:59 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <9506162006.AA05933@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Mark Murray Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones In-Reply-To: <199506161955.VAA15069@grumble.grondar.za> References: <199506161955.VAA15069@grumble.grondar.za> Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk < said: > No, listen. The code is already outside the US. Now that it is out, I can > re-import it with impunity. :-> :-> :-> > What you do with the attic is Your Problem (tm). I would just as soon stay away from the 4.4 Kerberos sources, considering the number of known-bogus bits. There would be a lot of re-porting work to do in all likelihood. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 13:16:22 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA16052 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:16:22 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA16046 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:16:18 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA05768; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:15:49 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506162015.NAA05768@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mark@grondar.za, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org In-Reply-To: <199506161955.VAA15069@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 16, 95 09:55:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1169 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > > > > So I take that going ahead and moving this (telnet[d]) will not be > > > considered a hostile action? ;-) (I won't do any committing for a > > > while - just till I get the feel of it). > > > > I think between you, Garrett and myself we can come up with something > > that is workable. > > Great. > > > > You preferred the actual Kerberos? I know someone in Britain who has a 4.4 > > > CDROM with this on and I could do a replacement job... > > > > Except that Kerberos is not exportable, so this would screw us up. If it > > was that simple I could reserect them from the CVS Attic area! > > No, listen. The code is already outside the US. Now that it is out, I can > re-import it with impunity. :-> :-> :-> Perhaps with impunity from ZA but not with impunity from the USA, they could still take legal action (the State Department is very weird this way). > What you do with the attic is Your Problem (tm). It is *our* problem, if your not going to play team like this is never going to work... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 13:42:37 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18104 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:42:37 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA18088 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:42:14 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA24921; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:41:59 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15202; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:41:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199506162041.WAA15202@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:41:57 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > > No, listen. The code is already outside the US. Now that it is out, I can > > re-import it with impunity. :-> :-> :-> > > Perhaps with impunity from ZA but not with impunity from the USA, they > could still take legal action (the State Department is very weird this > way). Maybe I just don't understand the issue here; I thought that once the code is outside the US and "your" (as opposed to "my") nose is clean, we can mess with Kerberos (or DES or anything else) as long as the code movement is _into_ the US. I would continue to maintain my mirror with the same code for the non-US netizens. Can this work or is it still dangerous? > > What you do with the attic is Your Problem (tm). > > It is *our* problem, if your not going to play team like this is > never going to work... Sorry - I left out the smiley. I intend to play team. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jun 16 14:35:12 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20513 for current-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:35:12 -0700 Received: from whisker.internet-eireann.ie (whisker.internet-eireann.ie [194.9.34.204]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20507 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:35:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whisker.internet-eireann.ie (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA12480; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:33:26 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: whisker.internet-eireann.ie: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Murray cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:07:59 +0200." <199506161708.TAA13736@grumble.grondar.za> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:33:26 +0100 Message-ID: <12477.803338406@whisker.internet-eireann.ie> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'd really appreciate it if someone could sign up to code review with Mark here.. He's obviously committed to making it better, and having it stall for lack of a good reviewer would be sad. David has John, I have Poul, Mark has... Nobody, it looks like. Somebody out there must have an interest in crypto! I, unfortunately, could care less about crypto or I'd sign up for this myself! C'mon, folks, I know that my lack of interest is most definitely NOT shared by others, and you know who you are, so please - give Mark a break here! Thanks! Jordan > Hi folks. > > I am getting a bit desparate now. I would _really_ like to start cleaning > up the crypto code, and have made some specific proposals about haw I would > like to do it, and asked for a mentor/buddy/tester to check it out before > I commit. Is there no-one out there who is interested in this? > > To summarise my proposals again (in no particular order): > > 1) The crypto code is a mess. I fail to see why it is broken into `secure' > and `ebones', so I would like to merge these. (With eBones remaining a > separate distribution). I would like the distributions to be called > `crypto' and `krb'. > > 2) I would like to update our DES library with some code I have from Eric > Young, including a secure (encrypting) telnet. He is the original author > of our DES library, and he converted Bones to eBones (Encrypting Bones). > > 3) I want to fix some nasty NIS/Kerberos incosistencies. > > 4) I want to complete the RPC work. > > 5) etc... > > M > > -- > Mark Murray > 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa > +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 00:34:10 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10921 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:34:10 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10915 ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:33:55 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA26712; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:33:40 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA17877; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:33:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199506170733.JAA17877@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:33:37 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'd really appreciate it if someone could sign up to code review with > Mark here.. He's obviously committed to making it better, and having > it stall for lack of a good reviewer would be sad. David has John, I > have Poul, Mark has... Nobody, it looks like. Somebody out there must > have an interest in crypto! I, unfortunately, could care less about > crypto or I'd sign up for this myself! C'mon, folks, I know that my > lack of interest is most definitely NOT shared by others, and you know > who you are, so please - give Mark a break here! Thanks Jordan! Garrett has agreed to help with architectual issues, but does not have too much time for much testing. Justin Gibbs has also expressed time reservations, but is willling to test code. Rod is happy to converse with me on the code tree itself (and we have already had quite a lively conversation here!). Terry has a friend with interests in this direction, but he himself cannot do anything. That enough? :-) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 00:37:43 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA11019 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:37:43 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11013 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:37:41 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA06445; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:37:07 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199506170737.AAA06445@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mark@grondar.za, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org In-Reply-To: <199506162041.WAA15202@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 16, 95 10:41:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1355 Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > > > > No, listen. The code is already outside the US. Now that it is out, I can > > > re-import it with impunity. :-> :-> :-> > > > > Perhaps with impunity from ZA but not with impunity from the USA, they > > could still take legal action (the State Department is very weird this > > way). > > Maybe I just don't understand the issue here; I thought that once the code > is outside the US and "your" (as opposed to "my") nose is clean, we can > mess with Kerberos (or DES or anything else) as long as the code movement > is _into_ the US. I would continue to maintain my mirror with the same code > for the non-US netizens. Can this work or is it still dangerous? It is still dangerous, as the State Department could start with us, find out how we brought it back in, go to you, and trace backwards to the source. Though we may have not exported it, we sure as heck where acting as a party to a known crime. I would rather just stay away from the Kerberos code... > > > > What you do with the attic is Your Problem (tm). > > > > It is *our* problem, if your not going to play team like this is > > never going to work... > > Sorry - I left out the smiley. I intend to play team. Okay! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 00:44:26 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA11301 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:44:26 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11295 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:44:19 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA26732; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:44:09 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA17943; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:44:07 +0200 Message-Id: <199506170744.JAA17943@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:44:07 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk > It is still dangerous, as the State Department could start with us, find > out how we brought it back in, go to you, and trace backwards to the > source. Though we may have not exported it, we sure as heck where acting > as a party to a known crime. > > I would rather just stay away from the Kerberos code... Makes sense. (Now!) -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 08:02:40 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA26388 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 08:02:40 -0700 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA26382 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 08:02:37 -0700 Received: from tama3.spec.co.jp (tama3 [202.32.13.252]) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with SMTP id XAA17049 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 23:58:00 +0901 Message-Id: <9506171507.AA00056@tama3.spec.co.jp.spec.co.jp> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 00:07:43 +0900 From: Atsushi Murai To: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.Org Subject: jp.106.kbd jp.106x.kbd ? X-Mailer: AL-Mail 0.94Beta Sender: current-owner@FreeBSD.Org Precedence: bulk Is there any reason Japanese 106 keyborad maps haven't described in Makefile for install? (Yes it's seems OK. IMHO) Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai E-Mail: amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 09:45:27 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA29847 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:45:27 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA29841 ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:45:22 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA13771 ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 18:45:01 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id SAA11675 ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 18:45:01 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199506171645.SAA11675@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: jkh@freebsd.org (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 18:45:00 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: mark@grondar.za, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <12477.803338406@whisker.internet-eireann.ie> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jun 16, 95 10:33:26 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD BUILT-19950501 ctm#617 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 866 Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'd really appreciate it if someone could sign up to code review with > Mark here.. He's obviously committed to making it better, and having > it stall for lack of a good reviewer would be sad. David has John, I > have Poul, Mark has... Nobody, it looks like. Somebody out there must > have an interest in crypto! I, unfortunately, could care less about > crypto or I'd sign up for this myself! C'mon, folks, I know that my > lack of interest is most definitely NOT shared by others, and you know > who you are, so please - give Mark a break here! I'm interested but remember I'm in France :-( I could already get in trouble being an official FreeBSD porter for STEL (encrypting telnet from the italian CERT). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0-BUILT-19950503 #3: Wed May 3 19:53:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 13:20:34 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA03473 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 13:20:34 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03464 ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 13:20:13 -0700 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA27293; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 22:19:53 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA19057; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 22:19:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199506172019.WAA19057@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: jkh@freebsd.org (Jordan K. Hubbard), mark@grondar.za, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 22:19:51 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'd really appreciate it if someone could sign up to code review with > > Mark here.. He's obviously committed to making it better, and having > > it stall for lack of a good reviewer would be sad. David has John, I > > have Poul, Mark has... Nobody, it looks like. Somebody out there must > > have an interest in crypto! I, unfortunately, could care less about > > crypto or I'd sign up for this myself! C'mon, folks, I know that my > > lack of interest is most definitely NOT shared by others, and you know > > who you are, so please - give Mark a break here! > > I'm interested but remember I'm in France :-( I could already get in trouble > being an official FreeBSD porter for STEL (encrypting telnet > from the italian CERT). Any chances of a copy of _that_ code? Also, are you likely to get in the muck if you test code on _another_ machine? Mine for example? :-) :-) :-) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 15:22:40 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA07500 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 15:22:40 -0700 Received: from quack.kfu.com (quack.kfu.com [204.147.226.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA07494 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 15:22:38 -0700 Received: (from nsayer@localhost) by quack.kfu.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA08516 for current@freebsd.org; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 15:22:35 -0700 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 15:22:35 -0700 From: Nick Sayer Message-Id: <199506172222.PAA08516@quack.kfu.com> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: MWSS sound trouble Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone gotten 2.0.5's soundcard drivers working with a Microsoft Windows Sound System card/module/laptop? I have a Zenith Z-NoteFlex and have been making remarkable progress working the bugs out of it... Sound is next. If I compile in all of the sound drivers, it finds mss0 and uart0. Sending a file to /dev/audio gives me about a second of sound, then silence until the process is killed. vmstat -i shows that every time I do this the vector for mss0 is incremented by one. Is it just me or are others having trouble with this too? From owner-freebsd-current Sat Jun 17 16:29:32 1995 Return-Path: current-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA17128 for current-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 16:29:32 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA17115 ; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 16:29:30 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA15113 ; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 01:29:28 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA12797 ; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 01:29:27 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199506172329.BAA12797@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: DES, crypt and eBones To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 01:29:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jkh@freebsd.org, mark@grondar.za, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199506172019.WAA19057@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Jun 17, 95 10:19:51 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD BUILT-19950501 ctm#617 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2201 Sender: current-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Any chances of a copy of _that_ code? Also, are you likely to get in the Officially not yet. AFAIK it is still beta code and only the beta testers are allowed to have it. It was announced at Usenix a few weeks ago. We're still waiting for it to come out of beta. There was talk about a second beta but no news from the authors yet. > muck if you test code on _another_ machine? Mine for example? :-) :-) :-) That could be arranged if you agree not to distribute the code. It is not yet telnet compatible (i.e. it requires a port for itself, the protocol is incompatible) but it has strong points (Diffie-Hellman key exchange with optional mutual authentification, DES/TDES and IDEA support, "rsh"-style mode with command execution on the remote host, preservation of $DISPLAY, SecurID/S-key/password authentification -- no clear-text password,...). It even has a built-in S-key calculator... 821 [1:27] root@keltia:src/lkm# stel localhost -l roberto -v ls Connected to localhost on port 10005. Using 512 bits modulus, 512 bits secret key exchanging keys with DH scheme (can be a lengthy process)... shared encryption key: 00243334BB8DF514 This session is using single DES encryption for all data transmissions. Escape character is '^]'. UNIX password authentication required Password: 320x200 Patches kpathsea.dvi ANNOUNCE RELNOTES lib CONNER Ularn.sav malloc-2.5.3b.c CVS-Howto char_sub.dvi malloc.patch Canceled.mail conner_scsi_pages microsoft.jpg Comm couverture.gif mp_scsi_pages INN-UNOFF1 dead.letter public_html Lisp docs seagate_scsi_pages Mail fr-enh.iso.kbd shell Misc fr.iso.kbd src NEW-VM greenwad.dvi src-save News gut-adhesion.dvi stdin PERSO iso-thin.tar.gz tmp -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.0-BUILT-19950503 #3: Wed May 3 19:53:04 MET DST 1995