From owner-freebsd-current Sun Nov 5 11:46:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA11117 for current-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:46:33 -0800 Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11097 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:46:27 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA12769; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:46:02 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199511051946.LAA12769@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_outpages error To: smace@metal.ops.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 11:46:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511050750.BAA01600@metal.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Nov 5, 95 01:50:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2507 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > >Also, I randomly get signal-10's and singal-11's when compiling. > > > > That's a real problem. It's interesting to note that Jordan was having > > trouble a few days ago when he tried to upgrade his 90Mhz machine (same > > motherboard as you) to 100Mhz. When he replaced the CPU with a 133Mhz one, > > his problems went away. In his case, it was obviously a hardware problem, > > but > > since the external cache and memory were operating with the same timing > > (66Mhz), I can only conclude that the problem was the CPU itself. Strange... > > I will see if I can try a 66mhz and 90mhz cpu (don't know if I can get a > 133mhz one) You can _not_ put a 66mhz CPU in that board, and before swapping CPU chips simply clock your 100Mhz chip down at 90 (change external clock from 66 to 60Mhz). > > > > >This is with an ASUS P55TP4XE/100 , > > > 256 Pipline Burst cache, AHA2940 scsi 16MB EDO ram > > > > Hmmm...what kind of disk are you using on it? I'm definately interested > > in > > the results of any equipment swapping you can do. It's possible that there > > is some sort of bug in the VM system (we've been down THIS road plenty of > > times :-)), but I haven't seen any problems like that here...and I do > > countless make worlds. I have two P55TP4XE based machines here, both are > > 90Mhz > > w/PB cache. I know that Rod does extensive testing with these motherboards, > > too, and he does 100Mhz+ there. His tests are all with -stable, however. The #1 cause I have found of sig-10 sig-11 that are _hardware_ related have to do with memory system failures, quite often a bad cache chip or bad cache module and/or bad main memory. You _are_ using 60nS main memory right??? You do have 24 or less chips on each simm, right?? EIther of those violate the stated operating parameters of the PCI/I-P55TP4XE board. > I have a Seagate st32550N attached to it. Also, I'm running 0111 rev of the > ASUS bios. Phk just flashed his machine up to that revision and is now seeing soft (C-A-D) reboot problems, any such things going on with yours? I checked here and can not duplicate it here. > I also tried changing the main memory with standard 60ns simms, no change. > I've tried it with -current and -stable and still get signal 11's but less > frequently with -stable. Hummm... well that answers my memory speed question... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Sun Nov 5 15:38:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA22511 for current-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:38:02 -0800 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA22503 for current@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:38:00 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 15:38:00 -0800 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199511052338.PAA22503@freefall.freebsd.org> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: The EXT2FS stuff is in the tree Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have committed it, but give me a few hours to verify it. I'll post a message when it is ready. John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Sun Nov 5 16:35:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA24463 for current-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:35:34 -0800 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA24457 for current@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:35:32 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:35:32 -0800 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199511060035.QAA24457@freefall.freebsd.org> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Info on my Sunday commits Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Notes on my latest updates to -current: Inclusion of Godmar Back's EXT2FS code. Note that this code has been modified by the FreeBSD team, so bugs should come here first. We'll get the bug reports (and fixes) back to him and also eventually support inclusion of the FreeBSD changes into his code base if he wants to. It appears that the code works, so feel free to test it, but still be gentle!!! Soon (in the next few days), I'll commit the fsck and mkfs code for EXT2FS. Hopefully a fix to the msync problem that is probably making mmaped files not work very will especially in the case of INND problems and NFS. Thanks to Ron Minnich for pointing out at least one of the major problems (it was simply just completely broken on NFS!!!.) Please check this out, and if it doesn't work -- I'll work on it again and again!!! In conjunction with the bug fix, the msync code has been cleaned up substantially. MNT_ASYNC now means even more on UFS. More of the meta-data is written asynchronously and the VREG data is now written asynchronously. I think that even more can be done relatively safely. This can really help on bulk file restores or perhaps news spool partitions. John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Sun Nov 5 16:38:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA24682 for current-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:38:14 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA24677 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:38:12 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05771; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:37:47 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199511060037.QAA05771@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: The EXT2FS stuff is in the tree To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:37:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511052338.PAA22503@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at Nov 5, 95 03:38:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 151 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk YEEHAAA! > > > I have committed it, but give me a few hours to verify it. I'll post > a message when it is ready. > > John > dyson@freebsd.org > From owner-freebsd-current Sun Nov 5 19:38:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA29505 for current-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:38:51 -0800 Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@metal-pluto.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.65.163.227]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA29498 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 19:38:44 -0800 Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) id VAA10499; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:38:23 -0600 (CST) From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199511060338.VAA10499@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_outpages error To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 21:38:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511051946.LAA12769@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Nov 5, 95 11:46:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > You can _not_ put a 66mhz CPU in that board, and before swapping CPU chips > simply clock your 100Mhz chip down at 90 (change external clock from 66 to > 60Mhz). I clocked my 100mhz cpu down to 90mhz as you suggested above, and I've gotten through 4 rebuilds of gcc with no signal 11's. I did this with 60ns simms with chip count < 24 these SIMMs were standard non-edo modules. I will try later with the EDO modules I have. Does this point to a bad cache module? > Phk just flashed his machine up to that revision and is now seeing soft > (C-A-D) reboot problems, any such things going on with yours? I checked > here and can not duplicate it here. Yes, I see the c-a-d problems. I cannot, for example, c-a-d during some points of the bootup, its somewhat intermitent. Scott From owner-freebsd-current Sun Nov 5 23:22:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA10684 for current-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:22:40 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10679 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:22:28 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA11762 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:22:22 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA22761 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:22:21 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA19922 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:16:14 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511060716.IAA19922@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: make release To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:16:14 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1105 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk j@uriah 210% tail -30 /tmp/releaselog cd /usr/src/share/dict ; make install DESTDIR=/R/stage/trees/bin SHARED=copies install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 README propernames web2 web2a /R/stage/trees/bin/usr/share/dict (cd /R/stage/trees/bin/usr/share/dict; rm -f words; ln -s web2 words) ===> share/doc cd /usr/src/share/doc ; make afterdistribute DESTDIR=/R/stage/trees/bin ===> share/doc/FAQ cd /usr/src/share/doc/FAQ ; make install DESTDIR=/R/stage/trees/doc SHARED=copies install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 freebsd-faq.ascii /R/stage/trees/doc/usr/share/doc/FAQ install: /R/stage/trees/doc/usr/share/doc/FAQ: No such file or directory *** Error code 71 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. Well, i guess i should have built a RELENG_2_1_0 release instead of one from -current :-), but at least, the above looks like some error... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Sun Nov 5 23:59:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA12409 for current-outgoing; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:59:16 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12402 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:59:14 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA23569; Sun, 5 Nov 1995 23:58:08 -0800 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Subject: Re: make release In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 08:16:14 +0100." <199511060716.IAA19922@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 1995 23:58:07 -0800 Message-ID: <23567.815644687@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, i guess i should have built a RELENG_2_1_0 release instead of > one from -current :-), but at least, the above looks like some > error... The -current /usr/src/release bits are stale and need to be brought forward from 2.1. I've just been too busy! Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 00:18:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA13098 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:18:56 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA13092 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:18:52 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tCMlR-0003w0C; Mon, 6 Nov 95 00:18 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01609; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:13:08 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Scott Mace cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: vnode_pager_outpages error In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Nov 1995 21:38:21 CST." <199511060338.VAA10499@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 00:13:08 +0100 Message-ID: <1607.815613188@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Phk just flashed his machine up to that revision and is now seeing soft > > (C-A-D) reboot problems, any such things going on with yours? I checked > > here and can not duplicate it here. > > Yes, I see the c-a-d problems. I cannot, for example, c-a-d during some > points of the bootup, its somewhat intermitent. My problem is that I can CAD the usual places, but it doesn't reset... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 00:25:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA13375 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:25:52 -0800 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13370 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:25:48 -0800 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA01541; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:25:45 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 00:25:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199511060825.AAA01541@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: gibbs@freebsd.org CC: current@freebsd.org Subject: ahcintr type mismatch From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It has been this way for a few hours, so I guess I didn't catch you in the middle of fixes or something. :) Satoshi ------- cc -c -O -pipe -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DSYSVMSG -DSYSVSEM -DSYSVSHM -DMFS -DNCONS=4 -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DFAT_CURSOR -DUCONSOLE -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../pci/aic7870.c In file included from ../../pci/aic7870.c:35: ../../i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h:220: conflicting types for `ahcintr' ./ioconf.h:13: previous declaration of `ahcintr' ../../i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h:220: warning: redundant redeclaration of `ahcintr' in same scope ./ioconf.h:13: warning: previous declaration of `ahcintr' *** Error code 1 Stop. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 01:39:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA17903 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:39:48 -0800 Received: from hearnvax.nic.surfnet.nl (hearnvax.nic.surfnet.nl [192.87.5.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA17897 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 01:39:36 -0800 Received: from hermes.hse.nl by HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl (PMDF V4.2-12 #3330) id <01HXBJ7NBSI80065ZF@HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl>; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:41:39 +0200 (MET-DST) Received: from charm.il.ft.hse.nl by hermes.hse.nl (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.04) id AA20325; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:40:22 +0100 Received: (from erik@localhost) by charm.il.ft.hse.nl (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA08015 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:36:27 +0100 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 10:36:26 +0100 (MET) From: Erik Manders Subject: chpass & co. broken? To: current@freebsd.org Message-id: <199511060936.KAA08015@charm.il.ft.hse.nl> X-Envelope-to: current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Location: Somewhere in The Netherlands Content-Length: 1490 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, There seems to be a problem with chpass and co. If they are compiled with YP support, any and all command line options except '-l' and '-y' are ignored. This appears to be accidental, and is the result of the call to use_yp() at line 172 of usr.bin/chpass/chpass.c . use_yp() calls getpwnam() which apparently overwrites the pw struct in which 'command line' changes have already been made! The following patch apparently solves the problem, but a more thorough solution is needed. Current bugs to this patch: Since I don't have YP, I haven't tested this with it. This patch should check if YP is being used, and forbid certain changes (password for instance). I've left out the loading new entries, since I don't like it (vipw or some adduser prog are for that). This patch applies to the current and the release (951020-SNAP) tree. --- /src/current/usr.bin/chpass/chpass.c Tue Oct 24 20:44:48 1995 +++ ./chpass.c Mon Nov 6 00:22:41 1995 @@ -190,6 +190,15 @@ _use_yp = 0; pw = (struct passwd *)&local_password; } + } + +/* ARGH! These were getting clobbered by the above! Redo them. */ + if (op == NEWSH) { + p_shell(arg, pw, (ENTRY *)NULL); + } + + if (op == NEWPW) { + pw->pw_passwd = arg; } #endif /* YP */ Erik Manders erik@il.ft.hse.nl -- :copy protection: n. A class of methods for preventing incompetent pirates from stealing software and legitimate customers from using it. Considered silly. --Jargon file, version 3.2.0 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 05:46:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA25387 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:46:30 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA25382 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 05:46:26 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA18581; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 00:45:59 +1100 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 00:45:59 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511061345.AAA18581@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, gibbs@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ahcintr type mismatch Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >It has been this way for a few hours, so I guess I didn't catch you in >the middle of fixes or something. :) >Satoshi >------- >cc -c -O -pipe -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DSYSVMSG -DSYSVSEM -DSYSVSHM -DMFS -DNCONS=4 -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DFAT_CURSOR -DUCONSOLE -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../pci/aic7870.c >In file included from ../../pci/aic7870.c:35: >../../i386/scsi/aic7xxx.h:220: conflicting types for `ahcintr' >... ahc0 is now configured as eisa/pci device so you have to replace the bogus "controller ahc1 at isa?..." line from your config file and possibly add an eisa line (see GENERIC and LINT). Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 08:53:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA01982 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:53:56 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA01975 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:53:53 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03492; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 09:20:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199511061720.JAA03492@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: gibbs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ahcintr type mismatch In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 00:25:45 PST." <199511060825.AAA01541@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 09:20:38 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >It has been this way for a few hours, so I guess I didn't catch you in >the middle of fixes or something. :) > >Satoshi You need to change your config file. Look at GENERIC. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 10:09:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA05460 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:09:36 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05442 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:09:29 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA15466; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:04:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511061804.LAA15466@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_outpages error To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:04:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: smace@metal.ops.neosoft.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <1607.815613188@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Nov 6, 95 00:13:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 861 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Phk just flashed his machine up to that revision and is now seeing soft > > > (C-A-D) reboot problems, any such things going on with yours? I checked > > > here and can not duplicate it here. > > > > Yes, I see the c-a-d problems. I cannot, for example, c-a-d during some > > points of the bootup, its somewhat intermitent. > > My problem is that I can CAD the usual places, but it doesn't reset... I believe this is related to doing the keyboard reboot in protected mode with A20 disabled. I have one system where wrapping memory with the A20 fixes the problem; I have another that I haven't tried forcing things out of protected mode on, but I'm pretty confident that it'd work if I did (SCO can reboot it). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 10:17:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA05801 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:17:39 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05795 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:17:32 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA15483; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:13:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511061813.LAA15483@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Info on my Sunday commits To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:13:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511060035.QAA24457@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at Nov 5, 95 04:35:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1170 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > MNT_ASYNC now means even more on UFS. More of the meta-data is written > asynchronously and the VREG data is now written asynchronously. I think > that even more can be done relatively safely. This can really help on > bulk file restores or perhaps news spool partitions. UFS has a number of places it gratuitously uses sync I/O to fix code errors. One of the engineers here at Artisoft has rolled some changes that result in some significant speed increases with no reduction in reliability and no change to the on disk layout. The changes are pointed out in the Herrin/Finkel VIVAFS work as changes they made to make VIVA faster, but it seems that all but two of the major changes are directly applicable to UFS as well. Check Technical Report Number 225-93 at the University of Kentucky CS Department (ms.uky.edu?). I haven't looked at the MNT_ASYNC changes yet, but based on its previous behaviour, I strongly caution against using MNT_ASYNC except in very special circumstances, like volume copying or backup, etc.. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 10:21:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06026 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:21:36 -0800 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA06016 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:21:33 -0800 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199511061821.KAA06016@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Info on my Sunday commits To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:21:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511061813.LAA15483@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 6, 95 11:13:26 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 278 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I haven't looked at the MNT_ASYNC changes yet, but based on its previous > behaviour, I strongly caution against using MNT_ASYNC except in very > special circumstances, like volume copying or backup, etc.. > I AGREEE!!!! (or benchmarking :-)). > John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 10:50:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA08355 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:50:03 -0800 Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA08340 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:50:00 -0800 Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA07125; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:54:54 -0800 From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199511061854.KAA07125@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_outpages error To: current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:54:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: smace@metal.ops.neosoft.com In-Reply-To: <199511051946.LAA12769@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Nov 5, 95 11:46:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3072 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Here are a few notes from my last two months tracking down my problems on a 4xe/pb cache/100Mhz 32MB in 2 16MB 60ns simms: [...] > simply clock your 100Mhz chip down at 90 (change external clock from 66 to > 60Mhz). Didn't help. 'just had to wait longer for a panic. > > I've tried it with -current and -stable and still get signal 11's but less > > frequently with -stable. same here...I went a step further and dropped the PHK-Malloc'd libc into stable and found this hi-po malloc to aggravate the problem...[compliment to Pohl on his tight and efficient code;)] > The #1 cause I have found of sig-10 sig-11 that are _hardware_ related have > to do with memory system failures, quite often a bad cache chip or bad cache > module and/or bad main memory. You _are_ using 60nS main memory right??? > You do have 24 or less chips on each simm, right?? EIther of those violate > the stated operating parameters of the PCI/I-P55TP4XE board. One thing I just found about, and have yet to see in print, is that there are different grades of chips with faster and slower 'refresh timings'. More specificaly, there are "universal" (2k refresh) and "mac/triton" (4k refresh) simms which are not interchangeable. (2k will work anywhere but not <-->) 4k simms (designated by xxx164xxx on the chips themselves) 'should' work in triton chipsets, but from what I have seen (siemmens and a mix of samsung and ti-japan) ..they do not. supposedly, the samsung's are making a comeback, and are the only ones which do work, (at 4k refresh) but i only had one. The "2k refresh" simms are designated by xxx174xx. I will hopefully be getting the "good ones" this week for my 2-month-old MB. It can be hard to put the blame on RAM with all the strange errors that bad, non-parity ram is capable of producing. -you keep looking elsewhere because of a mental-block about not seeing "parity error on xxx" Take this with a grain of salt, (it involves win95 and corel-draw) but what made me "beleive" (after swapping cpu,cache,ncr for known good ones) was after playing with CorelDepth-6 rendering a 16MB 3D logo, was being able to "see" the faulty lines in memory. patterns (usualy diag rows of lines) would pop up in the rendering as pixels changed from some color to white and the upon re-rendering, or transforming it, they would move. it never really crashed, at all. ...just think if microsloth used the PHK-malloc! people would run into the streets screaming that win95 is full of bugs, while its really all the low-grade simms imported from shoe-factories in Tiwan. > Phk just flashed his machine up to that revision and is now seeing soft > (C-A-D) reboot problems, any such things going on with yours? I checked > here and can not duplicate it here. Make sure you use option#3 and update both halves of the rom, and also 'load bios defaults' after flashing; let it boot until you see 'updated ECSD successfully' or whatever, then reboot and play with bios values. ..this was a big one on the -asus lists for a while. Rob Mallory [mallorrp@sce.com][rmallory@csusb.edu] From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 11:04:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA09162 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:04:11 -0800 Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA09154 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:04:01 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA13281; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:03:41 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199511061903.LAA13281@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_outpages error To: smace@metal.ops.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:03:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511060338.VAA10499@metal.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Nov 5, 95 09:38:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1481 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > You can _not_ put a 66mhz CPU in that board, and before swapping CPU chips > > simply clock your 100Mhz chip down at 90 (change external clock from 66 to > > 60Mhz). > > I clocked my 100mhz cpu down to 90mhz as you suggested above, and I've gotten > through 4 rebuilds of gcc with no signal 11's. I did this with 60ns simms > with chip count < 24 these SIMMs were standard non-edo modules. I will try > later with the EDO modules I have. Does this point to a bad cache module? It points to a timing problem most often either the cache has a slow chip in it, or your memory is not really performing at the 60nS speed. It can also be caused by a wrong voltage setting for the CPU chip (there is a five digit code ``SXxxx'' stamped on the top and bottom of your CPU chip, get that to me and I will tell you the correct setting for the CPU voltage). > > Phk just flashed his machine up to that revision and is now seeing soft > > (C-A-D) reboot problems, any such things going on with yours? I checked > > here and can not duplicate it here. > > Yes, I see the c-a-d problems. I cannot, for example, c-a-d during some > points of the bootup, its somewhat intermitent. c-a-d before init runs is an unstable thing, does /sbin/reboot consistently work? Does c-a-d consistently work when booted from a DOS floppy? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 11:38:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA10359 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:38:25 -0800 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA10342 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:37:48 -0800 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA14050; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:34:12 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199511061934.VAA14050@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Time problems To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:34:12 +0200 (SAT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current) In-Reply-To: <199511031523.CAA11301@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 4, 95 02:23:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1877 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > >> Perhaps the 8254 clock is being accessed too fast. Try adding some delays > >> before each inb() and outb() in clock.c:getit(). Count to 100 or so to > >> get at least 1 usec delay. > > >I added "for(x=0;x<100;x++);" between the inb and outb instructions and now > >the 100 second delay takes 98-99 seconds. So this is now much closer. It is > >also being probed as a 90MHz processor now. So it looks like this helps. > > Are you sure it takes <= 99 seconds? I doubt that the hardware error is > more than 1 part in 1000. > > We need a more reliable method of slowing down i/o accesses iff necessary. > In getit(), it is probably acceptable to add some dummy i/o's. It may > only be necessary to add a delay between the back to back i/o's (after the > outb and before the first inb). Try that (add one or more inb(0x84)'s). I tried one and two dummy inb's there and it was better, but still below 99 seconds. Then I added an inb between the low and high inb's and then two inb's and that seems to do the trick for getit(). It now take a little more than 99 seconds for the 100 second delay. > > >I ran your program with the pentium timer disabled and regularly got > >negative numbers. The numbers vary, but things that I got was -6, -38, > >-44, -17, etc... > > You would need similar delays in microtime() for the non-pentium version > to work. Try adding such delays (`inb $0x84, %al' immediately after the > outb). I tried a few combinations up to two inb's after the outb and after the first inb, but I still get negative numbers. I also tried Garrett's program and apart from it coredumping sometimes the min value is always a negative number -99 and worse. On a more positive note, if I run with a "fixed up" getit() my cpu speed gets probed correctly and then the pentium clock seems to be fairly accurate. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 11:53:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA10637 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:53:16 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA10620 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:53:05 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Time problems To: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za (John Hay) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:53:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511061934.VAA14050@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> from "John Hay" at Nov 6, 95 09:34:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2106 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk so will a patch to -current come out of all this? my pentiium is estimated to be anything from 50 to 68MHz depending on the phase of the moon. > > > > > >> Perhaps the 8254 clock is being accessed too fast. Try adding some delays > > >> before each inb() and outb() in clock.c:getit(). Count to 100 or so to > > >> get at least 1 usec delay. > > > > >I added "for(x=0;x<100;x++);" between the inb and outb instructions and now > > >the 100 second delay takes 98-99 seconds. So this is now much closer. It is > > >also being probed as a 90MHz processor now. So it looks like this helps. > > > > Are you sure it takes <= 99 seconds? I doubt that the hardware error is > > more than 1 part in 1000. > > > > We need a more reliable method of slowing down i/o accesses iff necessary. > > In getit(), it is probably acceptable to add some dummy i/o's. It may > > only be necessary to add a delay between the back to back i/o's (after the > > outb and before the first inb). Try that (add one or more inb(0x84)'s). > I tried one and two dummy inb's there and it was better, but still below > 99 seconds. Then I added an inb between the low and high inb's and then two > inb's and that seems to do the trick for getit(). It now take a little more > than 99 seconds for the 100 second delay. > > > > >I ran your program with the pentium timer disabled and regularly got > > >negative numbers. The numbers vary, but things that I got was -6, -38, > > >-44, -17, etc... > > > > You would need similar delays in microtime() for the non-pentium version > > to work. Try adding such delays (`inb $0x84, %al' immediately after the > > outb). > I tried a few combinations up to two inb's after the outb and after the first > inb, but I still get negative numbers. I also tried Garrett's program and > apart from it coredumping sometimes the min value is always a negative number > -99 and worse. > > On a more positive note, if I run with a "fixed up" getit() my cpu speed > gets probed correctly and then the pentium clock seems to be fairly accurate. > > John > -- > John Hay -- John.Hay@csir.co.za > From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 12:26:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA12112 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:26:59 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12103 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:26:52 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA30357; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:22:11 +1100 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:22:11 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511062022.HAA30357@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za, julian@TFS.COM Subject: Re: Time problems Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >so will a patch to -current come out of all this? >my pentiium is estimated to be anything from 50 to 68MHz depending on >the phase of the moon. It still isn't clear what a general patch should do, but you can easily fix DELAY() for your h/w. >> > >I ran your program with the pentium timer disabled and regularly got >> > >negative numbers. The numbers vary, but things that I got was -6, -38, >> > >-44, -17, etc... >> > >> > You would need similar delays in microtime() for the non-pentium version >> > to work. Try adding such delays (`inb $0x84, %al' immediately after the >> > outb). >> I tried a few combinations up to two inb's after the outb and after the first >> inb, but I still get negative numbers. I also tried Garrett's program and >> apart from it coredumping sometimes the min value is always a negative number >> -99 and worse. Is this with xntpd or similar slewing the clock? I would expect only large errors of 10000 usec if the heuristic for handling counter overflow doesn't work. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 12:37:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA12506 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:37:53 -0800 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA12499 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 12:37:46 -0800 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA14154; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:34:49 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199511062034.WAA14154@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Time problems To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 22:34:49 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-current) In-Reply-To: <199511062022.HAA30357@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 7, 95 07:22:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 902 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >> > >I ran your program with the pentium timer disabled and regularly got > >> > >negative numbers. The numbers vary, but things that I got was -6, -38, > >> > >-44, -17, etc... > >> > > >> > You would need similar delays in microtime() for the non-pentium version > >> > to work. Try adding such delays (`inb $0x84, %al' immediately after the > >> > outb). > >> I tried a few combinations up to two inb's after the outb and after the first > >> inb, but I still get negative numbers. I also tried Garrett's program and > >> apart from it coredumping sometimes the min value is always a negative number > >> -99 and worse. > > Is this with xntpd or similar slewing the clock? I would expect only > large errors of 10000 usec if the heuristic for handling counter overflow > doesn't work. > No I booted in single user mode, so nothing else was running. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 14:36:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA16982 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:36:52 -0800 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16976 ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:36:47 -0800 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA00626; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:36:35 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:36:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199511062236.OAA00626@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: bde@zeta.org.au CC: gibbs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199511061345.AAA18581@godzilla.zeta.org.au> (message from Bruce Evans on Tue, 7 Nov 1995 00:45:59 +1100) Subject: Re: ahcintr type mismatch From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * ahc0 is now configured as eisa/pci device so you have to replace the bogus * "controller ahc1 at isa?..." line from your config file and possibly add * an eisa line (see GENERIC and LINT). You are right, sorry I guess I missed a message or something. Where's my pointy hat.... ;) The Gunslinger From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 17:43:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA27338 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:43:09 -0800 Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27327 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:43:02 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA13604; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:42:44 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199511070142.RAA13604@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: vnode_pager_outpages error To: smace@metal.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:42:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511070121.TAA00177@metal.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Nov 6, 95 07:21:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 709 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > It points to a timing problem most often either the cache has a slow chip > > in it, or your memory is not really performing at the 60nS speed. It can > > also be caused by a wrong voltage setting for the CPU chip (there is a five > > digit code ``SXxxx'' stamped on the top and bottom of your CPU chip, get > > that to me and I will tell you the correct setting for the CPU voltage). > > Its an SX963. I'm doing tests with another set of simms now. That is a STD voltage part (3.3V +/- 5%) jumper JP22 should be shorted, JP23 and JP24 open. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Mon Nov 6 20:22:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01798 for current-outgoing; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:22:59 -0800 Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01783 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 1995 20:22:11 -0800 Received: from katiska.clinet.fi (root@katiska.clinet.fi [194.100.0.4]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.6.12/8.6.4) with ESMTP id GAA06758 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:21:51 +0200 Received: (root@localhost) by katiska.clinet.fi (8.6.12/8.6.4) id GAA15983; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:21:50 +0200 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:21:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199511070421.GAA15983@katiska.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Tape drive problems... Reply-To: Heikki Suonsivu Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone with an interpretation of these? Nov 7 04:55:26 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 88) @f13ec200. Nov 7 05:23:19 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 88) @f13ec200. Nov 7 05:28:26 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 88) @f13ec200. Nov 7 05:48:05 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 88) @f13ec200. Nov 7 05:57:41 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 88) @f13ec200. Nov 7 06:03:34 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 88) @f13ec200. Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: (ncr0:4:0): "HP C1533A 9503" type 1 removable S CSI 2 Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): Sequential-Access Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) of fset 8. Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: density code 0x24, variable blocks, write-enabl ed -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi work +358-0-4375209 fax -4555276 home -8031121 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 00:38:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA08615 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 00:38:24 -0800 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA08602 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 00:38:20 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA03692 for current@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:32:48 GMT From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199511070832.IAA03692@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: install bogon in groff To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:32:47 +0000 () MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 603 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just had 'make world' (install phase) break on me when the groff/xditview install tried to write gxditview into /usr/X11R6/bin, which is mounted readonly on this machine. I'm _fairly_ sure it shouldn't break the build 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 02:11:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA12189 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:11:20 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA12178 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 02:11:03 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA10172 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for current@freebsd.org); Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:08:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199511071008.AA10172@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 11:08:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: Heikki Suonsivu "Tape drive problems..." (Nov 7, 6:21) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Heikki Suonsivu Subject: Re: Tape drive problems... Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 7, 6:21, Heikki Suonsivu wrote: } Subject: Tape drive problems... } } Anyone with an interpretation of these? } } Nov 7 04:55:26 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): COMMAND FAILED (4 88) @f13ec200. The (4 88) means that the command appears to have completed with a status of 88, which is invalid ... } Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: (ncr0:4:0): "HP C1533A 9503" type 1 removable S } CSI 2 } Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): Sequential-Access } Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: st4(ncr0:4:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) of } fset 8. } Nov 6 07:49:03 katiska /kernel: density code 0x24, variable blocks, write-enabl } ed I'm using one, and never saw such a message. Since I rebuild my kernel every night and use the DAT quite often, I should have noticed, if something was wrong ... Could you offer more details: Did it ever work before ? Can you try with a different SCSI controller ? Please send verbose bootmessages (i.e. the output of '/sbin/dmesg' after booting with the otpion "-v" entered at the "Boot: " prompt. Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 03:38:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA14937 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:38:18 -0800 Received: from MediaCity.com (root@easy1.mediacity.com [205.216.172.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA14928 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:38:11 -0800 Received: (from brian@localhost) by MediaCity.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id DAA20604; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:48:27 -0800 From: Brian Litzinger Message-Id: <199511071148.DAA20604@MediaCity.com> Subject: Re: ahcintr type mismatch To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:48:27 -0800 (PST) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, gibbs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511061345.AAA18581@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 7, 95 00:45:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 887 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > ahc0 is now configured as eisa/pci device so you have to replace the bogus > "controller ahc1 at isa?..." line from your config file and possibly add > an eisa line (see GENERIC and LINT). > Bruce Speaking of this device. I have an NCA 54AS with onboard 7850 which doesn't work. I installed a 2940 and for about two months it has been working fine. With a recent -current, the onboard 7850 is now noticed by the probe, assigned to ahc1, and then the system crashes. 'disable ahc1' results in a message about ahc1 not probed because it is disabled, but later during the PCI bus probing it shows up, is detected, and then crashes. -- Brian Litzinger | | brian@mediacity.com | This space intentionally left blank | http://www.mpress.com | | From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 04:26:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA16510 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 04:26:02 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16495 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 04:25:50 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA31343; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:18:05 +1100 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:18:05 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511071218.XAA31343@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Info on my Sunday commits Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I haven't looked at the MNT_ASYNC changes yet, but based on its previous >> behaviour, I strongly caution against using MNT_ASYNC except in very >> special circumstances, like volume copying or backup, etc.. >> > I AGREEE!!!! (or benchmarking :-)). Or running Linux :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 06:46:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA20603 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:46:43 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA20598 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:46:41 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA01352; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 06:58:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199511071458.GAA01352@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Litzinger cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), asami@cs.berkeley.edu, gibbs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ahcintr type mismatch In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 03:48:27 PST." <199511071148.DAA20604@MediaCity.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 06:58:23 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> ahc0 is now configured as eisa/pci device so you have to replace the bogus >> "controller ahc1 at isa?..." line from your config file and possibly add >> an eisa line (see GENERIC and LINT). >> Bruce > >Speaking of this device. I have an NCA 54AS with onboard 7850 which >doesn't work. I installed a 2940 and for about two months it has >been working fine. > >With a recent -current, the onboard 7850 is now noticed by the probe, >assigned to ahc1, and then the system crashes. Hmm. My 7850 doesn't crash the system unless I actually use it. :) I'm still working on the 7850 problem. >'disable ahc1' results in a message about ahc1 not probed because it is >disabled, but later during the PCI bus probing it shows up, is >detected, and then crashes. PCI devices cannot be disabled yet. You're actuallly disabling the isa device ahc1. The PCI code then steals the ahc1 unit number and probes the device anyway. There are plans to fix this problem, but it will be a while. >-- >Brian Litzinger | > | >brian@mediacity.com | This space intentionally left blank > | >http://www.mpress.com | > | -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 07:29:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA21826 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:29:18 -0800 Received: from mantar.slip.netcom.com (mantar.slip.netcom.com [192.187.167.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21821 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:29:10 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mantar.slip.netcom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA00259; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:28:51 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:28:50 -0800 (PST) From: Manfred Antar To: current@freebsd.org Subject: netscape fails with latest kernel Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk i get the following when i try to start netscape with kernel made last night,make-world done 11/5/95.kernel made 11/5/95 works fine. netscape.bin: uname() failed; can't tell what system we're running on Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server Error: Can't open display: :0.0 ============================== || mantar@netcom.com || || Ph. (415) 647-4843 || ============================== From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 07:42:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA22055 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:42:00 -0800 Received: from mantar.slip.netcom.com (mantar.slip.netcom.com [192.187.167.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA22050 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:41:47 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mantar.slip.netcom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA00279; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:41:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:41:32 -0800 (PST) From: Manfred Antar To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Adaptec 1740 kernel problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk i have one machine with a adaptec 1740 controller and since 11/5/95 i can't build a kernel with this driver unless i include a bogus controller ahc0 line in kernel config file,then it builds fine.i have the line controller eisa0 in config file.here is the error i get: loading kernel eisaconf.o: Undefined sysbol `_eisadriver_set` referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Stop here is the line that i have for the 1740: controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr also if i build GENERIC i have no problems.for now i'll just keep the ahc0 line in. Thanks ============================== || mantar@netcom.com || || Ph. (415) 647-4843 || ============================== From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 07:52:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA22506 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:52:10 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA22495 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 07:52:07 -0800 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tCqJh-0003wAC; Tue, 7 Nov 95 07:52 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA04035 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 16:10:38 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: current@freebsd.org Subject: netscape && current Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 16:10:37 +0100 Message-ID: <4033.815757037@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > i get the following when i try to start netscape with kernel made > last night,make-world done 11/5/95.kernel made 11/5/95 works fine. > netscape.bin: uname() failed; can't tell what system we're running on > Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server > Xlib: Client is not authorized to connect to Server > Error: Can't open display: :0.0 This is mine. I missed part of my sysctl commit it seems, the compat stuff in fact. Will fix asap, probably ~20 hours. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 08:45:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA24813 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:45:25 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA24778 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:44:43 -0800 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05734 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:44:18 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA27162 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:44:17 +0200 Message-Id: <199511071644.SAA27162@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Lint won't bootstrap... Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 18:44:17 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi I remember a comment about lint being difficult about installing for the first time, so I went in there to "lend a hand". After a bit of effort (no debugging, just installing it, and trying to make sure all that it expects is there), I get this: ===> lint1 ===> lint2 ===> xlint ===> llib lint -Cposix /a/src/usr.bin/xlint/llib/llib-lposix llib-lposix: types.h:60: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' types.h:61: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' types.h:72: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' types.h:63: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' types.h:64: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' runetype.h:58: syntax error runetype.h:73: syntax error runetype.h:76: syntax error runetype.h:76: warning: function prototype parameters must have types runetype.h:80: syntax error llib-lposix:123: redeclaration of fgets llib-lposix:143: redeclaration of ftell *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. I have done a "make includes", and I have reinstalled lint a couple of times. Before I do any serious debugging - is there anything trivial I can do to fix this? M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 10:30:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28634 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:30:48 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28580 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:30:04 -0800 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA05888 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:29:21 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA00951 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:29:20 +0200 Message-Id: <199511071829.UAA00951@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: current@freebsd.org Subject: src/lib/libmp Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 20:29:20 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Any objections to me bringing this in? Bill Paul wants it for Secure RPC, and Rod has expressed an interest. I will import the whole of Gnu MP, but to start with, it will only build libmp.* (This was discussed a while back and sort-of agreed upon) If there are no objections I'll import in a few hours... M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 10:36:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28801 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:36:46 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28794 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 10:36:40 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id TAA07691 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:31:54 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id TAA07756 ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:31:54 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id TAA04322; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:23:15 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199511071823.TAA04322@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Adaptec 1740 kernel problem To: root@mantar.slip.netcom.com (Manfred Antar) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:23:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Manfred Antar" at Nov 7, 95 07:41:32 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1306 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Manfred Antar said: > i have one machine with a adaptec 1740 controller and since 11/5/95 > i can't build a kernel with this driver unless i include a bogus > controller ahc0 > line in kernel config file,then it builds fine.i have the line > controller eisa0 in config file.here is the error i get: Are you sure you did everything right (rebuilding config, "config WHATEVER", "make depend" and "make all") ? My current kernel has been compiled on Nov. 6th and I do not have this problem... FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #7: Mon Nov 6 21:08:06 MET 1995 roberto@keltia.freenix.fr:/src/src/sys/compile/KELTIA i386 controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector btintr controller scbus0 at bt0 controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr controller scbus1 at ahb0 # BT: 2 fast disks + CD disk sd0 at scbus0 target 0 unit 0 device cd0 at scbus0 target 6 # 1742: mp1624 + all streamers disk sd2 at scbus1 target 2 tape st0 at scbus1 target 5 My sources are dated : CTM_BEGIN 2.0 cvs-cur 1306 1995/11/06 15:00:02 -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #7: Mon Nov 6 21:08:06 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 12:46:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA02860 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:46:10 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA02844 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 12:45:13 -0800 Received: from grumble.grondar.za (grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA06037 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:42:35 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA02926 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 22:42:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199511072042.WAA02926@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: current@freebsd.org Subject: ;dlf;sdkf Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 22:42:34 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grumble.grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 18:02:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA12727 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:02:21 -0800 Received: from mantar.slip.netcom.com (mantar.slip.netcom.com [192.187.167.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA12715 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 18:02:14 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mantar.slip.netcom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA04304; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:56:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 17:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: Manfred Antar To: Ollivier Robert cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adaptec 1740 kernel problem In-Reply-To: <199511071823.TAA04322@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > Are you sure you did everything right (rebuilding config, "config > WHATEVER", "make depend" and "make all") ? > > My current kernel has been compiled on Nov. 6th and I do not have this > problem... did all that and i still get the same error.have you tried to just compile a kernel with just a ahb0 controller? if i add: controller ahc0 even though i don't have one on this machine the kernel builds fine,and the system boots fine.here is what i have for controller in my config file controller ahb0 at isa? bio irq ? vector ahbintr controller scbus0 at ahb0 disk sd0 at scbus0 target 0 disk sd1 at scbus0 target 1 device cd0 at scbus0 target 2 tape st0 at scbus0 target 4 controller ahc0 #it won't compile without this? ============================== || mantar@netcom.com || || Ph. (415) 647-4843 || ============================== From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 19:49:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA15906 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:49:21 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA15891 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:49:09 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA04532; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:08:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199511080408.UAA04532@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Manfred Antar cc: Ollivier Robert , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Adaptec 1740 kernel problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Nov 1995 17:56:11 PST." Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 20:08:25 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > >> Are you sure you did everything right (rebuilding config, "config >> WHATEVER", "make depend" and "make all") ? >> >> My current kernel has been compiled on Nov. 6th and I do not have this >> problem... > >did all that and i still get the same error.have you tried to just >compile a kernel with just a ahb0 controller? if i add: controller ahc0 >even though i don't have one on this machine the kernel builds fine,and >the system boots fine.here is what i have for controller in my config file Your problem is that you are including eisa0 when not including any devices that use the new eisaconf routines. The error you're seeing is because of the linkerset of eisa drivers not being defined unless there a driver is included. The ahb driver hasn't been converted to the eisaconf interface yet, but should be soon. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Tue Nov 7 20:34:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA18742 for current-outgoing; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:34:44 -0800 Received: from mantar.slip.netcom.com (mantar.slip.netcom.com [192.187.167.134]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18732 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:34:38 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by mantar.slip.netcom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA01924; Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:33:13 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 20:33:13 -0800 In-Reply-To: <199511080408.UAA04532@aslan.cdrom.com> Reply-To: root@mantar.slip.netcom.com Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 0.2 on FreeBSD From: Manfred Antar To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Subject: Re: Adaptec 1740 kernel problem Cc: Manfred Antar , Ollivier Robert , Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I removed the controller eisa0 line and kernel builds fine. Thanks Manfred From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 00:58:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA28017 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:58:17 -0800 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA28011 for freebsd-current; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:58:15 -0800 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199511080858.AAA28011@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Wierd problem To: freebsd-current Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:58:14 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 463 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I installed compat20 dist and then did a ldconfig -m /usr/lib /usr/local/lib. Now many programs either barf(w) or tell me ld.so failed(telnet). A recompile makes it work, so whats up?? Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 01:00:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA28119 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:00:24 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA28051 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 00:59:37 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA20961 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:58:56 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA14468 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:58:56 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA11983 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:00:16 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511080800.JAA11983@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: ;dlf;sdkf To: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:00:15 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511072042.WAA02926@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Nov 7, 95 10:42:34 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 270 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Murray wrote: > > > -- > Mark Murray ... Help! /dev/random finally took control over Mark! :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 01:14:43 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA28749 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:14:43 -0800 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA28743 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:14:38 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.1/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id BAA17309 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 01:09:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA21092; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:00:11 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA14534; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 10:00:10 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA16034; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:50:41 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511080850.JAA16034@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Lint won't bootstrap... To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:50:40 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511071644.SAA27162@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Nov 7, 95 06:44:17 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark Murray wrote: > > ===> xlint > ===> llib > lint -Cposix /a/src/usr.bin/xlint/llib/llib-lposix > llib-lposix: > types.h:60: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' > types.h:61: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' > types.h:72: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' > types.h:63: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' > types.h:64: warning: ANSI C does not support 'long long' > runetype.h:58: syntax error > runetype.h:73: syntax error > runetype.h:76: syntax error > runetype.h:76: warning: function prototype parameters must have types > runetype.h:80: syntax error > llib-lposix:123: redeclaration of fgets > llib-lposix:143: redeclaration of ftell > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > > I have done a "make includes", and I have reinstalled lint a couple of > times. Before I do any serious debugging - is there anything trivial > I can do to fix this? Sorry, i have to commit a series of minor changes in order to allow the compilation of lint's llib. You could temporarily comment out the llib subdir, and try to do something useful with lint. :) I promise to fix everything at least by next weekend. Yup, once lint is up & running, we immediately start seeig problems everywhere around in our sources (like the above). Ain't it fun? :) Does anybody have a good idea on how to make bootstrapping for the people as easy as possible? The biggest problem is that you can compile the llib subdir only after first succesfully installing from the xlint subdir, so a running version of lint(1) is around. I've already thought about .if exist .../bin/lint SUBDIRS += llib .endif but i'm not sure if it's worth the effort, since the .if statement is supposed to hit everytime but the first time. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 06:14:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA06313 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:14:01 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA06306 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:13:57 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA23272 (5.65.kiae-2 for current@freebsd.org); Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:08:13 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 8 Nov 95 17:08:12 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA00289 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:05:35 +0300 To: current@freebsd.org Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 17:05:35 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: lsdev & new eisa addition & sysctl Lines: 26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1251 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It is lsdev output for one day old -current... Device State Description ---------- --------------- -------------------------------------------------- cpu0 Busy i486 DX4 scbus0 Busy SCSI subsystem isa0 Busy ISA or EISA bus sc0 Busy Graphics console sio0 Idle Serial port: National 16550A, FIFO disabled sio1 Busy Serial port: National 16550A or compatible lpt0 Idle Parallel printer adapter fdc0 Idle NEC 765 floppy disk/tape controller fd0 Idle 1.44MB (1440K) 3.5in floppy disk drive fd1 Idle 1.2MB (1200K) 5.25in floppy disk drive mcd0 Idle Mitsumi FX001D npx0 Busy Floating-point unit lsdev: sysctl(hw.devconf.13): Bad address Some background info: I have new eisa0 and ahc0 in my config file. It seems that lsdev not sense eisa0 :-( -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 14:15:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA23071 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:15:18 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23063 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:15:14 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com ([131.124.4.29]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA05042 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 14:15:07 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA28866; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:12:15 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA25168; Wed, 8 Nov 95 16:12:24 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9511082212.AA25168@olympus> Subject: iozone and mount -o async To: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:12:23 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 952 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Can you test the fs mounted async with iozone? I am getting a slowdown mounted async! With my Maxtor 235M SCSI 1 drive mounted normally iozone 32 gives Writing the 32 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...41.687500 seconds Reading the file...30.148438 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 804903 bytes/second for writing the file 1112974 bytes/second for reading the file mounted with -o async Writing the 32 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...46.992188 seconds Reading the file...30.078125 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 714042 bytes/second for writing the file 1115575 bytes/second for reading the file The drive is on an NCR SCSI controller on my ASUS PCI/SP3G 486 DX4 100 system. Hmmm. -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner - faulkner@isd.tandem.com - http://cactus.org/~faulkner _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 15:34:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA28040 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:34:48 -0800 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA28032 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:34:41 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA11902 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for current@freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:30:51 +0100 Message-Id: <199511082330.AA11902@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:30:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) "iozone and mount -o async" (Nov 8, 16:12) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Subject: Re: iozone and mount -o async Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 8, 16:12, Boyd Faulkner wrote: } Subject: iozone and mount -o async } With my Maxtor 235M SCSI 1 drive mounted normally } } iozone 32 gives } IOZONE performance measurements: } 804903 bytes/second for writing the file } 1112974 bytes/second for reading the file } } mounted with -o async } IOZONE performance measurements: } 714042 bytes/second for writing the file } 1115575 bytes/second for reading the file I'm seeing slower writes, too, and surprisingly by about the same absolute amount (some 100KB/s). My "iozone 32" results are: se@x14> tail -3 /tmp/sync.io IOZONE performance measurements: 2529427 bytes/second for writing the file 4446135 bytes/second for reading the file se@x14> tail -3 /tmp/async.io IOZONE performance measurements: 2422429 bytes/second for writing the file 4423241 bytes/second for reading the file Bonnie gives significantly different results, too: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU sync 100 1505 98.6 3267 31.2 2167 42.3 1656 98.5 5929 72.1 78.4 9.2 async 100 1425 96.4 2661 24.3 2077 41.7 1644 98.0 5923 72.1 78.9 9.1 All tests on the half ful inner (slower) half of my 2GB Atlas driven by an ASUS SP3G, 486DX2/66, NCR SCSI. Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 16:13:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA00814 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:13:33 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA00808 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:13:25 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA16890; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:21 +1100 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:11:21 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511090011.LAA16890@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org, faulkner@mpd.tandem.com Subject: Re: iozone and mount -o async Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Can you test the fs mounted async with iozone? I am getting a slowdown >mounted async! This is normal. Mounting async disables the pessimization of doing async (but ASAP) writes for full buffers. This pessimization is actually an optimization for stupid benchmarks such as iozone. It forces the physical i/o to be done ASAP instead of later when iozone does an fsync(). Most applications don't do fsync()s so their i/o gets done when the system thinks best. It might be useful to have an fadvise() syscall (like madvise() but working :-). Applications that do large sequential i/o's could use it to suggest write-through. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 19:06:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA08024 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:06:10 -0800 Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA08019 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:06:04 -0800 Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA21745 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:05:42 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199511090305.WAA21745@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Sup problems To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:05:41 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 545 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone else having problems with sup of -current... I seem to have problems with the bin directory dying in /usr/src/bin/ed right before undo.c. No other files from bin transfer. The other directories all work ok... Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-current Wed Nov 8 21:33:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA19600 for current-outgoing; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:33:01 -0800 Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA19580 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:32:46 -0800 Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id VAA20963; Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:37:06 -0800 From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199511090537.VAA20963@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: iozone and mount -o async To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 21:37:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: mallorrp@sce.com In-Reply-To: <199511082330.AA11902@Sysiphos> from "Stefan Esser" at Nov 9, 95 00:30:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 770 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Nov 8, 16:12, Boyd Faulkner wrote: > } Subject: iozone and mount -o async [slow iozone times deleted] ...yes but try it with a 700k patch(1) file. MASSIVE difference. 'reminds me of prestoserve on a Sun. o-ya, here are my iozone times on a Nov-8 kernel and a quantum lps540s: MB reclen bytes/sec written bytes/sec read 1 512 6100805 2097152 1 1024 9586980 2097152 1 2048 12201611 2097152 1 4096 14913080 2097152 1 8192 19173961 2130440 I thee bow to the FreeBSD gods of Kernel Hackery! -Rob Mallory [rmallory@csusb.edu] From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 01:03:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA27816 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:03:11 -0800 Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA27806 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:03:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199511090903.BAA27806@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: MFS? To: pst@Shockwave.COM (Paul Traina) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:03:07 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511040421.UAA06256@precipice.shockwave.com> from "Paul Traina" at Nov 3, 95 08:21:39 pm From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 269 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina writes: > > What's the current state of MFS in -stable and -current? I haven't tried using > it in over a year (since the 4.4-lite integration). Is it still hosed badly, > or just hosed a little bit, or functional? It works fine for me ... > -- dima From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 02:14:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA03391 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:14:00 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA03380 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:13:46 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA24511 (5.65.kiae-2 for current@freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:12:54 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Thu, 9 Nov 95 13:12:54 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01047 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:12:09 +0300 To: current@freebsd.org Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:12:08 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: BSDI uname becomes broken in -current? Lines: 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 457 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I got 'uname() failed' each time when I run netscape in -current, but the same netscape works few days ago, it seems that BSDI-compatible uname is broken somewhow. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 02:27:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA03883 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:27:53 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA03866 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 02:27:32 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA27592 (5.65.kiae-2 for current@freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:24:20 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Thu, 9 Nov 95 13:24:19 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01260 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:22:54 +0300 To: current@freebsd.org Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:22:54 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Filesystem becomes unstable in -current :-( Lines: 7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 402 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I saw one panic in disksort() and dead process hang on "getblk" channel, I never got them before -current... -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 05:21:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA14101 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:21:06 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA14076 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 05:20:54 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA21183 (5.65.kiae-1 for current@freebsd.org); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:17:11 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Thu, 9 Nov 95 16:17:11 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00194 for current@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:16:09 +0300 To: current@freebsd.org Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:16:09 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Dead UFS hang on -current Lines: 10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 501 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My kernel just goes to following state: all things works, expect UFS. Entering DDB shows stack from cpu_switch(1111111,2222222,3333333,4444444,5555555) (nothing interesting here). Dont saw such hang before. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 10:41:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA00227 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:41:55 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00219 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:41:50 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29380; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:37:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091837.LAA29380@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Filesystem becomes unstable in -current :-( To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Nov 9, 95 01:22:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 414 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I saw one panic in disksort() and dead process hang on > "getblk" channel, I never got them before -current... Are you using the async stuff? Are you mounting read only, but attempting a write? I think either of these might result in your problem, given recent patches. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 10:50:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA00856 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:50:44 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00749 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:48:18 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA29465; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:43:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091843.LAA29465@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: config, other kernel build tools To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:43:10 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 391 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a kernel in an alternate source tree. Not suprisingly, I'm not real keen on doing this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 11:00:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA01356 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:00:09 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com ([131.124.4.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA01341 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:00:05 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA04032; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:58:42 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA27364; Thu, 9 Nov 95 12:58:51 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9511091858.AA27364@olympus> Subject: Re: iozone and mount -o async To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:58:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: current@freebsd.org, faulkner@devnull In-Reply-To: <199511090011.LAA16890@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 9, 95 11:11:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1115 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >Can you test the fs mounted async with iozone? I am getting a slowdown > >mounted async! > > This is normal. Mounting async disables the pessimization of doing > async (but ASAP) writes for full buffers. This pessimization is > actually an optimization for stupid benchmarks such as iozone. It > forces the physical i/o to be done ASAP instead of later when iozone > does an fsync(). Most applications don't do fsync()s so their i/o > gets done when the system thinks best. It might be useful to have > an fadvise() syscall (like madvise() but working :-). Applications > that do large sequential i/o's could use it to suggest write-through. > > Bruce > So how can I test my performance? iozone is no good. dd is no better. cp and cat file1 > file2 don't do as well either. It is because I am doing these things to a big file vs. a lot of smaller files? Thanks again, Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner - faulkner@isd.tandem.com - http://cactus.org/~faulkner _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 11:21:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA02236 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:21:08 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA02219 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:21:03 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA04909; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:16:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199511092016.MAA04909@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 11:43:10 MST." <199511091843.LAA29465@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:16:41 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere >instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? I think it should go away and we're taking steps to make that happen, so why force the move now? >As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a >kernel in an alternate source tree. ?? Doesn't that alternate source tree contain an "arch"/conf directory? The compile area is created relative to that directory. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 12:01:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA04073 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:01:20 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04026 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:01:04 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA01736; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:56:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511091956.MAA01736@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:56:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511092016.MAA04909@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Nov 9, 95 12:16:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1369 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere > >instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? > > I think it should go away and we're taking steps to make that happen, > so why force the move now? Force? No one is forcing anything... I think the code should be in the right location so I can build a -current kernel on a -stable machine without sacraficing my ability to build a -stable kernel on the same -stable machine. > >As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a > >kernel in an alternate source tree. > > ?? Doesn't that alternate source tree contain an "arch"/conf directory? > The compile area is created relative to that directory. My existing config *program*, not my existing *config*. /usr/sbin/config is *not* created relative to that directory. I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it is my friend, it serves me well. What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is a good first step. It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree and isn't really kernel code proper. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 12:24:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA05079 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:24:12 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA05062 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:24:02 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA06512; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:22:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199511092122.NAA06512@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: gibbs@freefall.FreeBSD.org (Justin T. Gibbs), current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 12:56:21 MST." <199511091956.MAA01736@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 13:22:04 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I think the code should be in the right location so I can build a >-current kernel on a -stable machine without sacraficing my ability >to build a -stable kernel on the same -stable machine. Its not where the code is, but where it is installed that you are complaining about. Just moving the code wouldn't be enough to fix your problem. Config would not be found in the standard path in this scenario as well. >> >As it is, I have to clobber my existing config program to build a >> >kernel in an alternate source tree. >> >> ?? Doesn't that alternate source tree contain an "arch"/conf directory? >> The compile area is created relative to that directory. > >My existing config *program*, not my existing *config*. Sorry, mis-read that. >/usr/sbin/config is *not* created relative to that directory. > >I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it >is my friend, it serves me well. Than change DESTDIR in your alternate source tree before you do the install. :) >What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned >mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good >for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is >a good first step. So you advocate is gets installed into the conf dir? Ugh. >It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree >and isn't really kernel code proper. The main reason we want to do away with config is that it just isn't flexible enough and we have to hack it all of the time. If config wasn't such a poor utility, there would be nothing wrong with having it in /usr/sbin since it would only change once in a blue moon. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 15:18:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA11118 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:18:17 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11113 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:18:14 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA00429 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:21:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199511092321.PAA00429@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: aha1742 now using eisaconf Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 15:21:45 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I only had a 100MB SCSI-I drive to test this against, so anyone using this driver under heavier load please let me know if I've broken anything. Thanks > From: "Justin T. Gibbs" > Message-Id: <199511092243.OAA09406@freefall.freebsd.org> > To: CVS-commiters, cvs-sys > Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/isa aha1742.c > Sender: owner-commit@FreeBSD.org > Precedence: bulk > > gibbs 95/11/09 14:43:53 > > Modified: sys/i386/conf files.i386 > sys/i386/eisa aha1742.c eisaconf.c > Log: > Convert Adaptec 1742 driver to new eisaconf interface. > > Removed: sys/i386/isa aha1742.c > Log: > Replaced by eisaconf version in i386/eisa. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 15:19:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA11314 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:19:57 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11259 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:19:39 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02126; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511092315.QAA02126@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511092122.NAA06512@aslan.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Nov 9, 95 01:22:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1451 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it > >is my friend, it serves me well. > > Than change DESTDIR in your alternate source tree before you do the install. :) and chroot to use it, etc., setc.. 8-(. > >What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned > >mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good > >for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is > >a good first step. > > So you advocate is gets installed into the conf dir? Ugh. Yeah, just like the X tools during an X build. Not pretty, but non-colliding with existing installations. > >It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree > >and isn't really kernel code proper. > > The main reason we want to do away with config is that it just isn't > flexible enough and we have to hack it all of the time. If config > wasn't such a poor utility, there would be nothing wrong with having > it in /usr/sbin since it would only change once in a blue moon. Agreed. The ultimate goal is to kill config entirely. The short term goal is to build a -current kernel on a -stable system. If it's killed, it goes away entirely. If it's not killed yet, /usr/sbin is probably the wrong place for it to live until such time as it *is* killed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 15:57:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA14445 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:57:31 -0800 Received: from eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (root@eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA14263 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:54:01 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA12639 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:53:05 +0100 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA02990; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:50:03 +0100 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 00:50:03 +0100 From: "Julian Stacey jhs@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <199511092350.AAA02990@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: current@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org, friday@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, port-pc532@netbsd.org, gea@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Julian Stacey lost 200K of mail, if you'r awaiting a reply plse resend Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I (Julian Stacey) have just lost over 200 K of mail, If you'r awaiting a response from me, please resend your mail (& dont reply to this, it's cc'd to too many lists) Apologies for the inconvenience ! Julian H. Stacey EMAIL: jhs@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 16:15:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA15572 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:31 -0800 Received: from puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (root@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us [198.82.200.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15542 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:15:25 -0800 Received: (from briggs@localhost) by puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA04056; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:13:49 -0500 From: Allen Briggs Message-Id: <199511100013.TAA04056@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:13:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511091843.LAA29465@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 9, 95 11:43:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 703 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere > instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? Why? Does it still have machine-dependencies in it? I highly recommend the much more machine-independent 'config' that NetBSD is now using. Or at least something similar. As it stands, I can config for several different architectures from one config program. Porting to it is not a trivial amount of work, but I think it's well worth the effort if you do plan to be multi-platform, and it has been done before on the x86... ;-) -allen -- Allen Briggs - end killing - allen.briggs@bev.net ** MacBSD == NetBSD/mac68k ** Where does all my time go? Guess. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 16:37:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA17205 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:37:04 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA17198 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:36:59 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA00720; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:38:47 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:38:47 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511100038.RAA00720@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Allen Briggs Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools In-Reply-To: <199511100013.TAA04056@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us> References: <199511091843.LAA29465@phaeton.artisoft.com> <199511100013.TAA04056@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Allen Briggs writes: > > Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere > > instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? FWIW - I've been arguing this point since 1.X, so there are *some* things that Terry and I agree on. :) > Why? Does it still have machine-dependencies in it? Uh, no, but it changes with the kernel, so it's dependant upon a particular version of the kernel. > I highly recommend the much more machine-independent 'config' that > NetBSD is now using. Or at least something similar. The 'config' is NetBSD isn't necessarily any more 'machine independant' than the config in FreeBSD, it's just different. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 17:54:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA22112 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:54:26 -0800 Received: from lobster.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA22068 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:54:07 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (COD.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.242]) by lobster.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04543; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:53:33 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:53:35 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 5:15 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >I *don't* want to toast my existing /usr/sbin/config; I like it, it >> >is my friend, it serves me well. >> >> Than change DESTDIR in your alternate source tree before you do the >>install. :) > >and chroot to use it, etc., setc.. 8-(. >> >What I'd really like is an incremental step in Richard's planned >> >mega-makefile patch direction. Putting the tools that are only good >> >for building kernels in with the kernel code that is to be built is >> >a good first step. >> >It's not like the boot code, etc. isn't already in the kernel tree >> >and isn't really kernel code proper. Hold on. I don't advocate putting a tool like config in either the kernel OR /usr/?bin. The ONLY things that belong in /usr/bin are commands related to the present OS. Tools that are for another version of the OS belong elsewhere. And they don't belong in the kernel either. They are NOT a part of the kernel, they are a TOOL. So put them in the tools directory associated with the build in progress. To me that means that they belong in usr/?bin. (I'm not sure what the distinction between bin and sbin should really be. These are uncommon commands, but still commands on the same level as troff. I tend to say usr/bin.) Notice that I did NOT say /usr/bin. Each build should have its own set of tools. If they are the same as the version on the current system, then a link will suffice. Otherwise the proper compilation of the tool for the purpose of the particular build must be used. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 18:39:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA24923 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:39:27 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24888 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:39:09 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02562; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:34:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511100234.TAA02562@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: briggs@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (Allen Briggs) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:34:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511100013.TAA04056@puma.bevd.blacksburg.va.us> from "Allen Briggs" at Nov 9, 95 07:13:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 818 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone else believe config should be in the /usr/src/sys somewhere > > instead of /usr/src/usr.sbin? > > Why? Does it still have machine-dependencies in it? I highly recommend > the much more machine-independent 'config' that NetBSD is now using. > Or at least something similar. Because I don't want to install the new one to use the new one. > As it stands, I can config for several different architectures from one > config program. Porting to it is not a trivial amount of work, but I > think it's well worth the effort if you do plan to be multi-platform, > and it has been done before on the x86... ;-) Config wil die eventually anyway. I meant for right now. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 18:47:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA25420 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:47:29 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA25316 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:45:24 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02607; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:40:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511100240.TAA02607@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:40:51 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 9, 95 07:53:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1545 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > And they don't belong in the kernel either. They are NOT a part of the > kernel, they are a TOOL. So put them in the tools directory associated with > the build in progress. That describes boot, netboot, fbsdboot (which is a *DOS* program!). I think config has about as much association with a particular kernel as /sys/kern/vnode_if.sh. Which is to say, there is a 1:1 correspondence with potential kernel changes. > To me that means that they belong in usr/?bin. (I'm not sure what the > distinction between bin and sbin should really be. These are uncommon > commands, but still commands on the same level as troff. I tend to say > usr/bin.) But config isn't a command, it's a kernel configuration semantics parsing tool to make a buildable directory in compile and add a whole bunch of crap that should be dynamically initialized anyway. It's as much a part of the kernel as the other pieces I mentioned. > Notice that I did NOT say /usr/bin. Each build should have its own set of > tools. Definitely -- and they should be associated with the source in some way. Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and compile and arch specific directories. > Otherwise the proper compilation of the tool for the purpose of the > particular build must be used. Right. But I can't use it because using it entails murdering the one for the current system (ie: installing it). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Nov 9 19:05:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA26906 for current-outgoing; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:05:16 -0800 Received: from lobster.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA26878 ; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:04:58 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (COD.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.242]) by lobster.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA05116; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:04:30 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:04:31 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 8:40 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and >compile and arch specific directories. I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". >> Otherwise the proper compilation of the tool for the purpose of the >> particular build must be used. > >Right. But I can't use it because using it entails murdering the one >for the current system (ie: installing it). That's because the present make system is EVIL, CORRUPT, and should be ERATICATED. Anybody who builds on top of the running system is like the proverbial guy out on the limb with saw in hand sawing between himself and the trunk. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 01:11:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA12776 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:11:55 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12754 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:11:04 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA25124 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:09:20 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA11282 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:09:20 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA05190 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:52:02 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199511100852.JAA05190@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:52:01 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199511100234.TAA02562@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Nov 9, 95 07:34:15 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 678 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > Because I don't want to install the new one to use the new one. Since my userland stuff is usually way behind -current, while i'm keeping the kernel up to the latest bits more often, i cvs checkout the modules config, include, lkm, and sys under a separate home directory, and simply run config right from there. (Yes, all of them belong to the kernel in some way, with include being the least important one [mostly identical to the regular include].) Doesn't this also work for you? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 01:30:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA13543 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:30:21 -0800 Received: from lobster.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA13537 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:30:17 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (COD.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.242]) by lobster.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA06064; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:29:41 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 03:29:45 -0600 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 2:52 AM 11/10/95, J Wunsch wrote: >As Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> Because I don't want to install the new one to use the new one. > >Since my userland stuff is usually way behind -current, while i'm >keeping the kernel up to the latest bits more often, i cvs checkout >the modules config, include, lkm, and sys under a separate home >directory, and simply run config right from there. (Yes, all of them >belong to the kernel in some way, with include being the least >important one [mostly identical to the regular include].) > >Doesn't this also work for you? This is exactly the philosophy that needs to apply to the entire build process. Namely that you check out the (entire) tree in its own separate home and compile away using only things (including the include files) from within that home. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 05:45:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA22006 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:45:09 -0800 Received: from robin.mcnc.org.mcnc.org (robin.mcnc.org [128.109.130.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA22000 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 05:45:06 -0800 Received: by robin.mcnc.org.mcnc.org (8.6.9/MCNC/8-10-92) id IAA01569; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:45:01 -0500 for Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:45:01 -0500 From: "Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers" Message-Id: <199511101345.IAA01569@robin.mcnc.org.mcnc.org> To: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: ijppp wedges system on -stable X-Face: ,fjtWiMPydUaSQl%8[eTg`u:^BXt&T)Sny(6w\*U"5D9H[Z$kG%Q/z;Z=NwrPiXf-aMF3R) Rsand$,]26-8>5@HD(A3A79gN|0%NHsdek4mT8E,>j+\w!~d2#nH;~NV!5a0"`5$Cj8d\or(Jy/JQ_ |uc;C[filmZ(~#lre*l:|O%d/PJFy`.5w8)sMZ-)QI3TaV"j'k Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I track -stable very closely. Lately I've had several system freezes when running ijppp. This happens when the phone lines are especially bad and I have to kill ijppp and restart it. Can't do anything except hit the reset button. (Can't get to the debugger) System is an old ISA (no name), dx2-66, 16MB, SCSI, 16550 uarts, USR 28.8 (with upgraded firmware). BTW - I tried running regular PPP a while back but it seemed very broken. I could establish a connection but almost no TCP traffic would get through. Pings worked fine. - Frank \\\\////\\\\////\\\\\////\\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\////\\\\ Frank Terhaar-Yonkers, Manager High Performance Computing and Communications Research MCNC PO Box 12889 3021 Cornwallis Road Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 27709-2889 fty@mcnc.org voice (919)248-1417 FAX (919)248-1455 http://www.mcnc.org/HTML/ITD/ANT/HPCCResearch.html From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 07:31:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28361 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:31:24 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA28354 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:31:14 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA18899 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:27:25 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Fri, 10 Nov 95 18:27:25 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA00921; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:03:45 +0300 To: Terry Lambert Cc: current@FreeBSD.org References: <199511091837.LAA29380@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199511091837.LAA29380@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert at Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:37:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:03:45 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Filesystem becomes unstable in -current :-( Lines: 33 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1087 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199511091837.LAA29380@phaeton.artisoft.com> Terry Lambert writes: >> I saw one panic in disksort() and dead process hang on >> "getblk" channel, I never got them before -current... >Are you using the async stuff? No. >Are you mounting read only, but attempting a write? No. >I think either of these might result in your problem, given recent patches. It seems that integration of async stuff broke normal stuff somehow :-( I restore my 10 days old kernel and all works right again. It looks like the same problem which manifistated in 3 states: 1) Singe process hangs in "getblk". No signal reactions occurse. If I attempt to read the same blocks from other process, first one unhangs. 2) All process which attemts to read/write UFS hangs forever. 3) Disksort panic. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 07:36:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA28565 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:36:24 -0800 Received: from mail1.access.digex.net (mail1.access.digex.net [205.197.247.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA28558 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:36:20 -0800 Received: from ugen (ugen-tr.worldbank.org [138.220.101.58]) by mail1.access.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA16773; for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:36:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 10:34:47 PST From: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" Subject: ext2fs...how? To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok..so i do have latest supped kernel.. Now where in LINT do i find this ext2fs definition..somehow i don't see even a hint of it's name...Any good ideas as to what to do now? --Ugen From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 07:51:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA29441 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:51:13 -0800 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29432 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:51:08 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA01901; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:53:28 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:53:28 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199511101553.IAA01901@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Frank E. Terhaar-Yonkers" Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ijppp wedges system on -stable In-Reply-To: <199511101345.IAA01569@robin.mcnc.org.mcnc.org> References: <199511101345.IAA01569@robin.mcnc.org.mcnc.org> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I track -stable very closely. Lately I've had several system freezes > when running ijppp. This happens when the phone lines are especially > bad and I have to kill ijppp and restart it. Can't do anything except > hit the reset button. (Can't get to the debugger) I'm running an older -stable at home, but with a brand-new kernel and a slightly modified ppp to do 'ddial' mode (never give up and always re-dial when the line goes down). It hasn't locked up my system, but ppp dies alot when it can't re-connect the line. I have core dumps all over the place, but unfortunately I haven't been able to debug the problem. Are you *sure* the entire system is frozen up? On my box, I've got a getty setup to run on my outgoing ppp line, so when ppp dies I can dial in and re-start it remotely. It works great. > System is an old ISA (no name), dx2-66, 16MB, SCSI, 16550 uarts, > USR 28.8 (with upgraded firmware). This sounds like the same thing as my box, although I'm not running with an updated firmware on my USR 28.8. :( > BTW - I tried running regular PPP a while back but it seemed very broken. > I could establish a connection but almost no TCP traffic would get through. > Pings worked fine. That sounds like both ends aren't agreeing on compression. Try playing with /etc/ppp/options. Because user-mode ppp isn't as robust as the simple script I'm using now #!/bin/sh # # Re-dial when the lines goes down # -detach is necessary since the script wants to know when the pppd # process exits so it can re-try the connection # while ( 1 ); do pppd connection 'chat -v -f /etc/ppp/chat' -detach cuaa0 115200 sleep 15 done Nate From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 08:01:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA00286 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:01:59 -0800 Received: from aslan.cdrom.com (aslan.cdrom.com [192.216.223.142]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA00273 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:01:54 -0800 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by aslan.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA01673; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:11:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199511101611.IAA01673@aslan.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: aslan.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Ugen J.S.Antsilevich" cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ext2fs...how? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:34:47 PST." Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:11:38 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Ok..so i do have latest supped kernel.. >Now where in LINT do i find this ext2fs definition..somehow >i don't see even a hint of it's name...Any good ideas as to >what to do now? >--Ugen > options "EXT2FS" -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 08:06:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA00573 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:06:02 -0800 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA00565 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:06:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:06:00 -0800 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199511101606.IAA00565@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, ugen@latte.worldbank.org Subject: Re: ext2fs...how? Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Forgot to add the ext2fs definition. Just say: options "EXT2FS" John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 09:59:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA04615 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:59:46 -0800 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04610 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:59:42 -0800 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD-4.4) id EAA11398 for current@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 04:59:35 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199511101759.EAA11398@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: IPv6 ? To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 04:59:32 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 355 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Now that there is a growing framework of documentation describing IPv6, I'm tempted to ask .. has anyone yet addressed the issue of merging in IPv6 capability (RFC1752 .. I think that's what I just read) or reviewed what facilities might be required to enable the transitionary encapsulations in FreeBSD ? 128 bit addresses sound like fun :-) michael From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 13:53:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA12516 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:53:00 -0800 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA12503 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:52:54 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id NAA22499 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:50:24 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04612; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:44:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511102144.OAA04612@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:44:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 9, 95 09:04:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1076 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > At 8:40 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: > >Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and > >compile and arch specific directories. > > I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ > Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". I think I can safely argue that you're not allowed to include them because they aren't allowed to change as frequently as the config program. 8-). Not that the config program should be allowed to change as fast as it has without providing guarantees re: backward compatability. > >Right. But I can't use it because using it entails murdering the one > >for the current system (ie: installing it). > > That's because the present make system is EVIL, CORRUPT, and should be > ERATICATED. Anybody who builds on top of the running system is like the > proverbial guy out on the limb with saw in hand sawing between himself and > the trunk. Aha! 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 13:55:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA12739 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:55:19 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA12696 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:54:52 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04636; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:49:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511102149.OAA04636@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:49:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511100852.JAA05190@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Nov 10, 95 09:52:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1409 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Because I don't want to install the new one to use the new one. > > Since my userland stuff is usually way behind -current, while i'm > keeping the kernel up to the latest bits more often, i cvs checkout > the modules config, include, lkm, and sys under a separate home > directory, and simply run config right from there. (Yes, all of them > belong to the kernel in some way, with include being the least > important one [mostly identical to the regular include].) > > Doesn't this also work for you? Is config the *only* place where you get screwed? I don't think that config builds with include files source tree relative, which is a nice problem in itself. I'm attempting to get a build environment in line with the -current stuff so people will love me and love my patches (well, tolerate me and love my patches 8-)) and so they can be CVS merged. It seems to me that this would be such a common case that it would be easy to do and have confidence. Maybe it's easy to do, and it's only my confidence in it not touching the rest of my world that's what's lacking. 8-(. Julian has suggeted before that he does CVS SUP after his patches have been rolled in to the main CVS tree, but this isn't really an option for people without commit. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 14:54:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA15922 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:54:04 -0800 Received: from lobster.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15883 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:53:51 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (COD.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.242]) by lobster.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09525; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:53:36 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:53:37 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools Cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 3:44 PM 11/10/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >> At 8:40 PM 11/9/95, Terry Lambert wrote: >> >Like putting them in a "tools" dir at the same level as the kern and >> >compile and arch specific directories. >> >> I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ >> Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". > >I think I can safely argue that you're not allowed to include them >because they aren't allowed to change as frequently as the config >program. 8-). Frequency of change is NOT the criteria. It is the fact that it might need to change and that it is needed to accomplish a particular compilation of some version of the tree. The generic build files already recognize that you might not want to use the same c compiler all the time. In the same way, you do not wish to use the same config. And in the case of make, Poul is already talking about modifications. There is nothing wrong with that. But the new version of make should not be installed into the running system. It may get there eventually, but in the interim, it belongs in a separate area associated with the build that needs it. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 16:29:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA19562 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:29:17 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA19534 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:29:07 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA04931; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:24:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511110024.RAA04931@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: config, other kernel build tools To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:24:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Nov 10, 95 04:53:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2156 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> I certainly have no problem with that location in src/ > >> Now I'll throw in the "ringer". gcc and make are also "tools". > > > >I think I can safely argue that you're not allowed to include them > >because they aren't allowed to change as frequently as the config > >program. 8-). > > Frequency of change is NOT the criteria. It is the fact that it might need > to change and that it is needed to accomplish a particular compilation of > some version of the tree. > > The generic build files already recognize that you might not want to use > the same c compiler all the time. In the same way, you do not wish to use > the same config. > And in the case of make, Poul is already talking about modifications. There > is nothing wrong with that. But the new version of make should not be > installed into the running system. It may get there eventually, but in the > interim, it belongs in a separate area associated with the build that needs > it. I think that the kernel has to be compilable with any compiler. But not configurable with any config. I think make is close to in the same boat with config, actually, because there are dependencies on features not generic to all make utilities that are used in the tree. On the other hand, config semantics change with kernl architecture changes, and while makefiles do the same, make semantics do not. This is a nearly natural division of the code into three independent categories. It's possible to push this to two if the makefiles can be made to be independent of the BSD make. This is probably a reasonable goal for the kernel itself, but not for the non-kernel portion of the source tree. I should be able to build a kernel on an SCO Xenix box using an SCO Xenix compiler and make utility from SCO, but that doesn't mean I won't need to hack the boot code because the current loader can't understand the image layout, the assembly code because it *is* tool dependent, or that I can use SCO's config tools (which they don't have one of anyway). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 18:12:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id SAA24179 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:12:27 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA24174 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:12:22 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA01399 for current@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:09:59 +1100 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:09:59 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511110209.NAA01399@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: old bugs in vfs_lookup.c Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've reported these bugs and fixes before but there wasn't enough discussion. 1. The empty pathname is allowed as an alias for ".". This breaks POSIX conformance for every syscall that involves a pathname. 2. lstat() depletes the namei cache. Thus file system traversals often blow away the cache entries for everything they look at. Bruce *** vfs_lookup.c~ Mon Oct 23 01:47:39 1995 --- vfs_lookup.c Mon Oct 23 01:47:40 1995 *************** *** 51,54 **** --- 51,55 ---- #include #include + #include #ifdef KTRACE *************** *** 111,114 **** --- 112,127 ---- error = copyinstr(ndp->ni_dirp, cnp->cn_pnbuf, MAXPATHLEN, (u_int *)&ndp->ni_pathlen); + + /* + * Don't allow empty pathname. + * Log the error until we find the standard utilities that cause it. + */ + if (!error && *cnp->cn_pnbuf == '\0') { + log(LOG_ERR, + "pid %d (%s) called namei with an empty pathname\n", + cnp->cn_proc->p_pid, cnp->cn_proc->p_comm); + error = ENOENT; + } + if (error) { free(cnp->cn_pnbuf, M_NAMEI); *************** *** 267,272 **** wantparent = cnp->cn_flags & (LOCKPARENT | WANTPARENT); docache = (cnp->cn_flags & NOCACHE) ^ NOCACHE; if (cnp->cn_nameiop == DELETE || ! (wantparent && cnp->cn_nameiop != CREATE)) docache = 0; rdonly = cnp->cn_flags & RDONLY; --- 280,297 ---- wantparent = cnp->cn_flags & (LOCKPARENT | WANTPARENT); docache = (cnp->cn_flags & NOCACHE) ^ NOCACHE; + /* + * XXX the following seems to be just to recover from not setting + * NOCACHE for the DELETE cases (unlink, rmdir and the rename + * source). In BSD4.4lite[2], docache was also cleared for the + * (wantparent && cnp->cn_nameiop == LOOKUP) case. This case + * seems to only occur for lstat and olstat, when it is wrong + * to clear docache. This case probably didn't occur before + * BSD4.4lite. LOCKPARENT was introduced for lstat to support + * the new behaviour of symlinks (attributes inherited from the + * parent. + */ if (cnp->cn_nameiop == DELETE || ! (wantparent && cnp->cn_nameiop != CREATE && ! cnp->cn_nameiop != LOOKUP)) docache = 0; rdonly = cnp->cn_flags & RDONLY; From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 19:06:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA25901 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:06:10 -0800 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (root@hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA25890 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:06:02 -0800 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA06561 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Sat, 11 Nov 1995 05:05:48 +0200 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id FAA06778; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 05:06:02 +0200 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 05:06:02 +0200 Message-Id: <199511110306.FAA06778@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Peter Wemm Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org, Brad Parker , paulus@cs.anu.edu.au In-Reply-To: Peter Wemm's message of 10 Nov 1995 23:42:51 +0200 Subject: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/pppd RELNOTES Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ppp-2.2 doesn't have a RELNOTES file anymore, so the old one here was rather out of date.. it even suggested that it was ppp-2.1.1 still :-) I've selected some bits from the README files and pre-pended it so that at least reading it tells you _something_ about the recent history. And there is the nasty part: > Patents. > ******** > > The BSD-Compress algorithm used for packet compression is the same as > that used in the Unix "compress" command. It is apparently covered by > U.S. patents 4,814,746 (owned by IBM) and 4,558,302 (owned by Unisys), > and corresponding patents in various other countries (but not > Australia). If this is of concern, you can build the package without > including BSD-Compress. To do this, edit net/ppp-comp.h to change the > definition of DO_BSD_COMPRESS to 0. The bsd-comp.c files are then no > longer needed, so the references to bsd-comp.o may optionally be > removed from the Makefiles. Has anyone looked at it, if it could be modified to do zip compression instead. In addition to being patent-free it would improve performance? There is a libary for gzip routines which was used for ssh quite successfully, but I do not know how well it would sit into a kernel. The streams code does not apply FreeBSD, but as it is contaminated with a pretty restrictive copyright (no-no for an ISP: "...nor to provide a commercial service"). Is there something else than streams code which is covered by this copyright? -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 22:46:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA03711 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:46:29 -0800 Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com ([131.124.4.29]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA03706 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:46:27 -0800 Received: from olympus by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA28212; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:45:05 -0600 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA02490; Sat, 11 Nov 95 00:45:14 CST From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9511110645.AA02490@olympus> Subject: rtelnet (socks) panics on connect To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:45:14 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3417 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Argh! I am trying to run rtelnet, the socks 4 version of telnet. ON connect I get a panic. I cannot get the box to dump. It starts but the drive spins and it is not happy at all. First. From ddb panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small What does this mean? db> trace _Debugger(f0114deb,f0114de0,f019f491,efbffe9c,f024c064) at _Debugger+0x2b _panic(f019f491,f0210650,f0211dac,13,f09fe200) at _panic+0x3b _kmem_malloc(f024c060,efbfe000,0,0,efbfff94) at _kmem_malloc+0xa8 _malloc(efbfdc98,4a,0,efbfff94,f0a03000) at _malloc+0x21b ___sysctl(f0a03000,efbfff94,efbfff8c,808b060,efbfdc78) at ___sysctl+0xbe _syscall(27,27,2,efbfdc78,efbfdc54) at _syscall+0x157 Bad user frame pointer: 0xefbfdc54 db> show all procs pid proc addr uid ppid pgrp flag stat wmesg wchan cmd 331 f0a03000 f398d000 0 170 331 004106 2 rtelnet 312 f09fb300 f397d000 0 311 311 000086 3 netio f09fb030 rlogin 311 f09fd300 f3977000 0 204 311 004186 3 ttyin f02045ec rlogin 204 f09e4e00 f395f000 0 1 204 004086 3 wait f09e4e00 bash 177 f09b6100 f398b000 0 1 177 000086 3 select f0206c94 pppd 176 f09b6f00 f3989000 0 1 176 004086 3 ttyin f020c460 getty 175 f09b5700 f3987000 0 1 175 004086 3 ttyin f020c384 getty 174 f0924100 f3985000 0 1 174 004086 3 ttyin f020c2a8 getty 173 f09b1600 f3983000 0 1 173 004086 3 ttyin f020c1cc getty 172 f09b5100 f3981000 0 1 172 004086 3 ttyin f020c0f0 getty 171 f09b5400 f397f000 0 1 171 004086 3 ttyin f020c014 getty 170 f09b5600 f3961000 0 1 170 004086 3 wait f09b5600 bash 165 f09b1d00 f397b000 0 1 165 000084 3 netcon f09b1122 httpd 163 f09b1900 f3979000 0 1 163 000084 3 netcon f09b1b22 httpd 118 f09aa500 f3975000 0 1 118 000084 3 netcon f09aa222 sendmail 115 f09a6900 f3973000 0 1 115 000084 3 select f0206c94 lpd 113 f09a6200 f3971000 0 1 113 000084 3 pause f3971148 cron 106 f0965f00 f396f000 0 1 106 000084 3 select f0206c94 inetd 97 f095f400 f396d000 1 1 97 000184 3 select f0206c94 portmap 93 f095a600 f396b000 0 1 93 000084 3 select f0206c94 xntpd 86 f095d000 f3969000 0 1 86 000084 3 select f0206c94 named 83 f095a900 f3965000 0 1 83 000084 3 select f0206c94 syslogd 66 f0952b00 f3967000 0 1 66 000084 3 select f0206c94 routed 42 f0931400 f3963000 0 1 42 000084 3 pause f3963148 adjkerntz 4 f08f1000 f395d000 0 0 0 000204 3 update f020e324 update 3 f08f1200 f395b000 0 0 0 000204 3 psleep f0206e10 vmdaemon 2 f08f1400 f3959000 0 0 0 000204 3 psleep f0207354 pagedaemon 1 f08f1600 f3957000 0 0 1 004084 3 wait f08f1600 init 0 f020d348 f022c000 0 0 0 000204 3 sched f020d348 swapper Then db> call diediedie() panic: because you said to! dumping to dev 409, offset 0 dump 24 I have FreeBSD on sd1 and the config file says dump on sd1 device 409 corresponds to 4,9 which is /dev/sd1b. Why can't I dump? Thanks, Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner - faulkner@isd.tandem.com - http://cactus.org/~faulkner _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Nov 10 23:09:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA04512 for current-outgoing; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:09:22 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04504 ; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:09:17 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA00565; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:09:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA00732; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:04:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199511110704.XAA00732@corbin.Root.COM> To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) cc: current@freebsd.org, phk@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rtelnet (socks) panics on connect In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 95 00:45:14 CST." <9511110645.AA02490@olympus> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:04:15 -0800 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Argh! > >I am trying to run rtelnet, the socks 4 version of telnet. ON connect >I get a panic. I cannot get the box to dump. It starts but the >drive spins and it is not happy at all. > >First. From ddb > > >panic: kmem_malloc: kmem_map too small > >What does this mean? > >db> trace >_Debugger(f0114deb,f0114de0,f019f491,efbffe9c,f024c064) at _Debugger+0x2b >_panic(f019f491,f0210650,f0211dac,13,f09fe200) at _panic+0x3b >_kmem_malloc(f024c060,efbfe000,0,0,efbfff94) at _kmem_malloc+0xa8 >_malloc(efbfdc98,4a,0,efbfff94,f0a03000) at _malloc+0x21b ^^^^^^^^ It's trying to allocate about 4GB of memory. Yeah, the map is just a TINY bit too small for that. :-) >___sysctl(f0a03000,efbfff94,efbfff8c,808b060,efbfdc78) at ___sysctl+0xbe >_syscall(27,27,2,efbfdc78,efbfdc54) at _syscall+0x157 Looks like someone has broken sysctl. Sigh. -DG From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 02:53:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA11821 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 02:53:18 -0800 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA11816 ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 02:53:13 -0800 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD-4.4) id VAA09030; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:52:55 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199511111052.VAA09030@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/pppd RELNOTES To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:52:54 +1100 (EST) Cc: peter@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org, brad@fcr.com, paulus@cs.anu.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199511110306.FAA06778@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Nov 11, 95 05:06:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 314 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu writes: > Has anyone looked at it, if it could be modified to do zip compression > instead. ZIP is computationally expensive .. you'll speed most of your time in the kernel and little doing much else. The "predictor-1" algorithm already in use by iij-ppp is a lightweight alternative, michael From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 03:21:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA12766 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 03:21:26 -0800 Received: from jhome.DIALix.COM (root@jhome.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA12746 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 03:21:11 -0800 Received: (from peter@localhost) by jhome.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA10530; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:19:53 +0800 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:19:53 +0800 (WST) From: Peter Wemm To: michael butler cc: Heikki Suonsivu , freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org, brad@fcr.com, paulus@cs.anu.edu.au Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/pppd RELNOTES In-Reply-To: <199511111052.VAA09030@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 11 Nov 1995, michael butler wrote: > Heikki Suonsivu writes: > > > Has anyone looked at it, if it could be modified to do zip compression > > instead. > > ZIP is computationally expensive .. you'll speed most of your time in the > kernel and little doing much else. The "predictor-1" algorithm already in > use by iij-ppp is a lightweight alternative, It'd be nice to have kernel-ppp speak "predictor-1" as well for completeness - but I dont have the inclination or expertise to spend the time to port the user-mode code to run in kernel-mode. I'd certainly be willing to help where I could though. Cheers, -Peter > michael From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 04:12:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA15435 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 04:12:58 -0800 Received: from unlisys.unlisys.NET (unlisys.unlisys.net [194.64.15.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA15429 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 04:12:56 -0800 Received: by unlisys.unlisys.NET from deadline.snafu.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 [@@]) id m0tEEnl-000ZxOC; Sat, 11 Nov 95 13:12 MET Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tEEng-000AVBC; Sat, 11 Nov 95 13:12 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.2) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 11 Nov 95 13:12 MET From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: LKM's still wont compile in -currneent X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stephen wrote: >This has been happening for a while now - they fall over with attempting to >include ioconf.h. It seems as if ACTUALLY_LKM_NOT_KERNEL is not being defined. ===> lkm ===> lkm/atapi cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -nostdinc -I. -I/sys -DATAPI -DATAPI_MODULE -DKERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys -W -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -c /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c In file included from /sys/sys/conf.h:205, from /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c:912: ./machine/conf.h:14: ioconf.h: No such file or directory *** Error code 1 This __still__ happens when doing a make world. Regards, mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 04:46:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA16343 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 04:46:37 -0800 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16336 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 04:46:30 -0800 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA24815; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:46:14 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199511111246.OAA24815@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: LKM's still wont compile in -currn^żeent[3~.. To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:46:14 +0200 (SAT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Nov 11, 95 01:12:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 902 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Stephen wrote: > > >This has been happening for a while now - they fall over with attempting to > >include ioconf.h. It seems as if ACTUALLY_LKM_NOT_KERNEL is not being defined. > > ===> lkm > ===> lkm/atapi > cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -nostdinc -I. -I/sys -DATAPI -DATAPI_MODULE -DKERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys -W -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -c /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c > In file included from /sys/sys/conf.h:205, > from /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c:912: > ./machine/conf.h:14: ioconf.h: No such file or directory > *** Error code 1 > > This __still__ happens when doing a make world. > It does work here. Maybe you need newer bsd.*.mk or include files. Did you do a "make mk includes" in /usr/src? Or just a make world to make sure everything is up to date. (That takes a bit long though.) John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 08:32:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA19999 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:32:58 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA19991 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:32:54 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA02377; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 03:30:43 +1100 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 03:30:43 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511111630.DAA02377@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org, root@deadline.snafu.de Subject: Re: LKM's still wont compile in -currneent Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >===> lkm >===> lkm/atapi >cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -nostdinc -I. -I/sys -DATAPI -DATAPI_MODULE -DKERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys -W -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -c /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c >In file included from /sys/sys/conf.h:205, > from /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c:912: >./machine/conf.h:14: ioconf.h: No such file or directory >*** Error code 1 >This __still__ happens when doing a make world. Install bsd.kmod.mk. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 08:52:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA20800 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:52:47 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA20792 ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 08:52:36 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA02895; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 03:49:15 +1100 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 03:49:15 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199511111649.DAA02895@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, faulkner@mpd.tandem.com Subject: Re: rtelnet (socks) panics on connect Cc: current@freebsd.org, phk@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>db> trace >>_Debugger(f0114deb,f0114de0,f019f491,efbffe9c,f024c064) at _Debugger+0x2b >>_panic(f019f491,f0210650,f0211dac,13,f09fe200) at _panic+0x3b >>_kmem_malloc(f024c060,efbfe000,0,0,efbfff94) at _kmem_malloc+0xa8 >>_malloc(efbfdc98,4a,0,efbfff94,f0a03000) at _malloc+0x21b > ^^^^^^^^ > It's trying to allocate about 4GB of memory. Yeah, the map is just a TINY >bit too small for that. :-) >>___sysctl(f0a03000,efbfff94,efbfff8c,808b060,efbfdc78) at ___sysctl+0xbe >>_syscall(27,27,2,efbfdc78,efbfdc54) at _syscall+0x157 > Looks like someone has broken sysctl. Sigh. userland_sysctl() doesn't check `newlen' like __sysctl(), so it can be abused to allocate too much kernel memory: as non-root, set new = NULL bypass the privilege check; then newlen bytes will be malloced() and the copyin() from the user address NULL will fail immediately. Root can use all of kernel memory for a little longer :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 09:26:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA21585 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:26:05 -0800 Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA21579 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:25:49 -0800 Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.7.1/8.7.1) id RAA27668; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:06:37 GMT Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 17:06:37 GMT From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <199511111706.RAA27668@linus.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: J Wunsch's message of Nov 8, 9:50am X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Subject: Re: Lint won't bootstrap... Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: J Wunsch > Date: Wed 8 Nov, 1995 > Subject: Re: Lint won't bootstrap... > Does anybody have a good idea on how to make bootstrapping for the > people as easy as possible? The biggest problem is that you can > compile the llib subdir only after first succesfully installing from > the xlint subdir, so a running version of lint(1) is around. A slightly messy way would be to have lint grow a -B option (like gcc's), symlink lint1 and lint2 into xlint's obj directory (on the fly), and invoke the just-built lint as: ../xlint/xlint -B../xlint/xlint/ -Cposix ${.ALLSRC} ../xlint/xlint -B../xlint/xlint/ -Cstdc ${.ALLSRC} A slightly less messy way (without the symlinks) might be to have options to explicitly specify the pathnames of lint1 and lint2 on the command line, or via environment variables. By the way, I'd bootstrap other stuff this way too, where it's important to pick up a current source tree version rather than a (possibly older or for-another-target) version. (Like config for the kernel build...) For multiple source trees to work, I prefer self-building source trees to multiple installation trees. Mark. -- From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 13:42:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA03580 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:42:02 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03573 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:41:55 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08113; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:37:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511112137.OAA08113@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: old bugs in vfs_lookup.c To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:37:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199511110209.NAA01399@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 11, 95 01:09:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1929 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I've reported these bugs and fixes before but there wasn't enough > discussion. > > 1. The empty pathname is allowed as an alias for ".". This breaks > POSIX conformance for every syscall that involves a pathname. It's because "xxx/" is being handled as "xxx/." instead of as "xxx". Probably the real fix is to handle "xxx/" as "xxx" with the trailing slash implying that the link (if any should be followed). Otherwise ndp->ni_dvp and ndp->ni_vp point to the same location and you have to fight the lock. Probably the trailing slash should be noted, removed, and imply a test of ndp->ni_vp for whether or not it's a directory. > 2. lstat() depletes the namei cache. Thus file system traversals > often blow away the cache entries for everything they look at. This is part of the larger problem of the use ov the cn_pnbuf and abbreviated mutual recursion to traverse multiple links to avoid using stack. It's probably arguable that the namei/lookup interaction is completely broken. Really, cache entry want to take place in the top level path lookup mechanism ("namei") instead of in the per file system lookup code. The damage occurs because traversing a link results in a bogus parent of link directory and link target in the cache because of where the cache entry is made. Disallowing an empty pathname (a "degenerate name") in all cases is really a violation of POSIX because of faulty trailing slash interpretation, and that's done because of the implied "dir-ness" of patsh with trailing slashes for BSD backward compatability. I'm not suggesting abonding this behaviour entirely, only dealing with the parsing of the path components at a slightly different level. It would fix the problem without flagging the program as "bad" when POSIX allows the behaviour. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 13:46:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA03784 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:46:38 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03777 ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:46:30 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08131; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:41:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511112141.OAA08131@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/pppd RELNOTES To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:41:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: peter@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freefall.freebsd.org, brad@fcr.com, paulus@cs.anu.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199511110306.FAA06778@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Nov 11, 95 05:06:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1992 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > And there is the nasty part: > > > Patents. > > ******** > > > > The BSD-Compress algorithm used for packet compression is the same as > > that used in the Unix "compress" command. It is apparently covered by > > U.S. patents 4,814,746 (owned by IBM) and 4,558,302 (owned by Unisys), > > and corresponding patents in various other countries (but not > > Australia). If this is of concern, you can build the package without > > including BSD-Compress. To do this, edit net/ppp-comp.h to change the > > definition of DO_BSD_COMPRESS to 0. The bsd-comp.c files are then no > > longer needed, so the references to bsd-comp.o may optionally be > > removed from the Makefiles. > > Has anyone looked at it, if it could be modified to do zip compression > instead. In addition to being patent-free it would improve performance? > There is a libary for gzip routines which was used for ssh quite > successfully, but I do not know how well it would sit into a kernel. > > The streams code does not apply FreeBSD, but as it is contaminated with a > pretty restrictive copyright (no-no for an ISP: "...nor to provide a > commercial service"). Is there something else than streams code which is > covered by this copyright? The decompression is identical for both the patent-covered (LZW) and non-covered (LZ) techniques. It's the compression process itself that uses Unisys's Terry Welch's techniques that is covered. Plain old Lempel-Ziv, which isn't covered, simply generates the data not as compressed as the Welch refinement causes it to be. The LZ decompressor can decompress both LZ and LZW compressed data, and the LZW decompressor is the same. So the restriction by the patent is on the compression process, and only on a particular method of compression. So it's possible to offer compatability without violating the patent. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 13:48:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA03869 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:48:56 -0800 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03862 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 13:48:49 -0800 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA08140; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:43:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199511112143.OAA08140@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: LKM's still wont compile in -currn^żeent To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:43:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, root@deadline.snafu.de In-Reply-To: <199511111630.DAA02377@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Nov 12, 95 03:30:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 788 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >===> lkm > >===> lkm/atapi > >cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -nostdinc -I. -I/sys -DATAPI -DATAPI_MODULE -DKERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys -W -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -c /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c > >In file included from /sys/sys/conf.h:205, > > from /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c:912: > >./machine/conf.h:14: ioconf.h: No such file or directory > >*** Error code 1 > > >This __still__ happens when doing a make world. > > Install bsd.kmod.mk. Thank you. This provides an example of broken code for maintaining -stable and -current on the same machine other than the "config" program itself. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 14:35:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA05910 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:35:14 -0800 Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05886 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:35:11 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:34:55 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:34:53 -0600 To: Terry Lambert From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: LKM's still wont compile in -current Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, root@deadline.snafu.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >===> lkm >> >===> lkm/atapi >> >cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -nostdinc -I. -I/sys -DATAPI -DATAPI_MODULE >>-DKERNEL -I/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys -W -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -c >>/usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c >> >In file included from /sys/sys/conf.h:205, >> > from /usr/src/lkm/atapi/../../sys/i386/isa/atapi.c:912: >> >./machine/conf.h:14: ioconf.h: No such file or directory >> >*** Error code 1 >> >> >This __still__ happens when doing a make world. >> >> Install bsd.kmod.mk. > >Thank you. This provides an example of broken code for maintaining >-stable and -current on the same machine other than the "config" program >itself. Now can I sell "you" (the holdouts, not you Terry) on getting rid of the absolute paths? EVERYTHING needs to be referenced relative to the ROOT of the build tree. SRC, OBJ location, TOOLS, INCludes, MKfiles, etc. EVERYTHING. The default definitions can revert to the rooted definitions for the very common "special case" of compiling an update to the running system. However the general case is still that of building a totally different system to be run on another machine, perhaps even with a different kind of cpu. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 15:20:39 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id PAA10614 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:20:39 -0800 Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA10582 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:20:30 -0800 Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.7.1/8.7.1) id XAA22220; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:20:48 GMT Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:20:48 GMT From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <199511112320.XAA22220@linus.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of Nov 11, 2:43pm X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Terry Lambert , bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Subject: Re: LKM's still wont compile in -currn^eent Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, root@deadline.snafu.de Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Terry Lambert > Date: Sat 11 Nov, 1995 > Subject: Re: LKM's still wont compile in -currn^eent > > Install bsd.kmod.mk. > > Thank you. This provides an example of broken code for maintaining > -stable and -current on the same machine other than the "config" program > itself. One way to help make source trees self-sufficient might be to start every Makefile with something like: TOP = ../.. .MAKEFLAGS: -I${TOP}/share/mk (where the ../.. varies according to the position in the source tree). I use a similar scheme in a build system I designed (except that it doesn't depend on luxuries like BSD make's .MAKEFLAGS rule, so every include line has to refer explicitly to the mk directory...). Mark. -- From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 19:41:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA20675 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:41:29 -0800 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (root@hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA20661 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 19:41:24 -0800 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA14453 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Sun, 12 Nov 1995 05:41:19 +0200 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id FAA08651; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 05:41:34 +0200 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 05:41:34 +0200 Message-Id: <199511120341.FAA08651@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: michael butler Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: michael butler's message of 11 Nov 1995 13:06:34 +0200 Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/pppd RELNOTES Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone looked at it, if it could be modified to do zip compression ZIP is computationally expensive .. you'll speed most of your time in the Huh? hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 37: time gzip -1 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.60; user 0.582; system 0.031; cpu 101.6%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 687; max size 192 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 38: time gzip -1 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.60; user 0.578; system 0.038; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 718; max size 192 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 39: time gzip -1 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.61; user 0.583; system 0.031; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 706; max size 192 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 40: time gzip -1 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.60; user 0.579; system 0.038; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 718; max size 192 So its about 0.6s hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 41: time compress < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.75; user 0.644; system 0.070; cpu 94.6%; swaps 0; disk reads 5; disk writes 0; average size 741; max size 450 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 42: time compress < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.73; user 0.662; system 0.038; cpu 94.5%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 763; max size 450 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 43: time compress < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.67; user 0.651; system 0.038; cpu 101.4%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 757; max size 450 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 44: time compress < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.71; user 0.699; system 0.031; cpu 101.4%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 756; max size 450 compress -b16 takes more, 0.65s, but as predictor-1 uses only 15 bits: hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 45: time compress -b15 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.52; user 0.502; system 0.031; cpu 101.9%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 737; max size 450 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 46: time compress -b15 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.53; user 0.481; system 0.054; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 761; max size 450 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 47: time compress -b15 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.53; user 0.476; system 0.053; cpu 98.1%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 787; max size 450 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 48: time compress -b15 < csh > /dev/null real 0:00.54; user 0.506; system 0.022; cpu 96.2%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 795; max size 450 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 49: time compress -b15 < csh > /tmp/csh.Z real 0:00.60; user 0.464; system 0.106; cpu 93.3%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 6; average size 784; max size 446 compress -b15 wins by 20-30%, 0.5s But lets look at decompression times! hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 50: time gzip -1 < csh > /tmp/csh.gz real 0:00.78; user 0.571; system 0.064; cpu 80.7%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 5; average size 705; max size 192 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 51: time compress -d < /tmp/csh.Z > /dev/null real 0:00.34; user 0.302; system 0.046; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 770; max size 452 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 52: time compress -d < /tmp/csh.Z > /dev/null real 0:00.34; user 0.334; system 0.015; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 749; max size 452 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 53: time compress -d < /tmp/csh.Z > /dev/null real 0:00.33; user 0.322; system 0.023; cpu 103.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 750; max size 452 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 54: time compress -d < /tmp/csh.Z > /dev/null real 0:00.33; user 0.293; system 0.045; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 794; max size 452 compress -d takes 0.3s. hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 55: time gzip -d < /tmp/csh.gz > /dev/null real 0:00.19; user 0.172; system 0.030; cpu 105.2%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 800; max size 178 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 56: time gzip -d < /tmp/csh.gz > /dev/null real 0:00.19; user 0.192; system 0.015; cpu 105.2%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 773; max size 162 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 57: time gzip -d < /tmp/csh.gz > /dev/null real 0:00.19; user 0.184; system 0.024; cpu 105.2%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 750; max size 150 hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 58: time gzip -d < /tmp/csh.gz > /dev/null real 0:00.20; user 0.178; system 0.032; cpu 100.0%; swaps 0; disk reads 0; disk writes 0; average size 738; max size 138 gzip -d takes 0.2s. compress -b15 0.5s + 0.3s = 0.8s gzip -1 0.6s + 0.2s = 0.8s I can't see any difference, except in the file sizes: hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 59: ls -l /tmp/csh.{Z,gz} -rw------- 1 root bin 170735 Nov 12 05:16 /tmp/csh.Z -rw------- 1 root bin 138760 Nov 12 05:16 /tmp/csh.gz This was on a P90, -current from two weeks back. Disclaimer: csh doesn't necessarily represent "standard data pattern on TCP/IP links" :-). -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 21:23:14 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA24641 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:23:14 -0800 Received: from ast.com (irvine.ast.com [165.164.128.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA24636 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:23:12 -0800 Received: from fw.ast.com by ast.com with SMTP id AA13542 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:24:29 -0800 Received: by fw.ast.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tEUkT-000085C; Sat, 11 Nov 95 23:14 CST Message-Id: Date: Sat, 11 Nov 95 21:07 WET To: current@freebsd.org From: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Reply-To: current@freebsd.org Sent: Sat Nov 11 1995, 21:07:49 PST Subject: ISP state their FreeBSD concerns Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have been having a lot of contact with various local ISPs (we seem to have an excessive number of these guys in this area). All of them are aware of FreeBSD, but almost universally there is a frame of mind that says FreeBSD should be avoided. Naturally, I quizzed them as to what brought them to that conclusion if the reason wasn't something we can't fix like "Alphas rule, Intels SUCK", etc. In general each had three to five comments/concerns that were at the heart of their negative view. I've compiled a list of the "top ten" things that bug these guys that we should consider correcting, or perhaps improving the documentation to dispell a falsehood or explain-away a concern. It is also entirely possible that these people had exposure to older releases and that the problems that worry them no longer exist. These aren't my own opinions, so don't flame me if you don't agree with them. Nobody reading this should spread these "concerns" like an urban folklore or anything. Some of these things may have been resolved a long time ago or may never have been true. The people who specialize in these areas of the system who respond should be the people who you listen to for an authoritative answer. Ok? These are generally ordered with the highest concerns first: 1. A concern that FreeBSD tends to "bind" for brief periods when loaded. Here is how it was described to me: You will be doing something (like skimming news articles in trn or tin) that is hitting the hard disk perhaps once every five seconds and you are getting instant response. Then something else starts up, like tind, and the hard disk is now extremely busy (it was practically idle before tind started). Now, your disk requests aren't getting through for some reason and trn/tin seems to be dead. After fifteen or twenty seconds, the single disk read from tin/trn finally gets through and the next news article or the next page finally appears on the screen. You continue getting reasonable response (under a second delays), for a minute or so, and then disk I/O seems to "bind" again. They say that almost any disk intensive process does this, even if it is Niced into the floor. Dump and tar are said to be very bad and showing this. As described, it sounds like a process scheduling problem. I think I have seen this occur on 2.0.5 and 2.1.0-SNAP1026, and this was on reasonably fast systems. They were talking about this over lines connected via networked terminal servers, but I have seen it on a one-user system sitting at the console so no network delays were involved. There was a lessor complaint of mystery panics and lockups but this only came from someone who played with 2.0.0. 2. A concern that disk I/O on large (4GB or bigger) hard disks or large numbers of hard disks is not reliable, particularly on systems with more than 32MB of RAM. There has been a lot of traffic in the mailing lists on the subject of big disk stability and functionality, but it usually seemed the problems were limited to certain combinations of drives and controllers. Even Walnut Creek stated they had hard disk troubles with certain brands earlier this year. Perhaps a FAQ of known good/bad combinations would solve this, ie Grand Prix + NCRs is good/bad/etc. 3. A concern about things in FreeBSD that impact INN performance, or force them to compile INN special for FreeBSD. They are talking about MMAP support. Although some have stated in the mailing lists that not using MMAP on FreeBSD doesn't have a penalty, these guys are almost universally convinced that not using MMAP defeats the purpose of all the RAM they bought or will yield slower performance than some other system, probably because on a lot of other operating systems this is very true. 4. A concern about problems related to filesystem stacks, such as ISO9660 and DOS. (They may be talking about Samba, and not the actual mounting of DOS filesystems.) One of the ISO9660 issues is the one I reported last week where a plain user can easily break all mounted ISO9660 access and hang all processes that attempt to access the ISO filesystems. (We discovered this on one of the local ISPs archive server - they were not pleased.) These guys with lots of CD-ROMs mounted on their systems don't like the sound of that remaining broken for any period of time, particularly when it ripples to other systems via NFS. 5. Not at all obvious what system resources to increase for large and/or heavily loaded systems, and what ratios of parameter settings are best. Apparently SUN, SCO and even Linux have a lot of documentation in this area and FreeBSDs is limited, missing or not obvious. I know SCO used to have little tables that said "if you increase this, this other value should be probably increased according to this formula...". FreeBSD is different enough apparently that the rules of thumb for BSD 4.x aren't valid here. So documentation or the much-beamoned but absent "book" on FreeBSD. 6. Multi-port serial support and even single-port serial support. Seems they feel hardware flow control doesn't work or isn't enabled when it should be (or can't be) or both. This may actually be an issue with the 16550 drivers not setting silo depth to a reasonable level. Most of these guys use terminal servers for the actual users where these local serial ports are used for UPS, router control, serial printers, and other in-house controls. They complain of seeing problems with lost data outbound when flow control was in use, including during UUCP sessions. 7. Concern that there is still a lot of "tinkering under the hood" in FreeBSD in areas that aren't broadening the system as a whole. They would rather have more compatibility (run Linux / SCO stuff), or even more native applications working rather than have somebodys new spiffy-internal-choclate-covered-paging-allocation-widget- thingy-that-has-no-trailing-whitespace-in-any-of-the-source-files, etc. There was a plea for longer periods of stability, ie don't feel FreeBSD has to have a "stable" version followed by an unstable one, just because the next "." number is even and someone did releases that way accidentally ten years ago. They point to Linux, where the core seems to be going through few changes (what about the "FT" guys?), or a purchased system (SUN/SCO) which sees a maintenance release that only alters a small percentage of the system each year. It is hard to argue this point as FreeBSD still struggles to get its 4.4lite issues completely cleaned up and major architectural changes are still pretty common. They also cry out against further changes to executable headers and password file formats. Changes made in these areas in the past are not popular to these guys as it requires far to much work to uprade accounts and such. They also don't like include files changing around too much, because FreeBSD doesn't provide ports for everything, and now code that used to compile may not just because someone made something "tidy". Changes like this in the name of POSIX are considered "stupid". Apparently POSIX isn't the Holy Grail it once was, particularly nowdays when you can just claim to be somewhat POSIX compliant (if viewed in a dim light on the 5th Tuesday of even years) and still get government contracts, as in Windows NT. POSIX just isn't a concern for ISPs. This whole area is a very religious issue (boy do I know) and there are many people volunteering on FreeBSD that are very good at working on particular things (like down in one specific part of the kernel) and getting them to work instead on DOSEMU or whatever the hot item is that month probably isn't practical (they may hate doing it and go away). On the other hand, I understand why these ISPs want a stable core. Tweaking a few microseconds out of memory allocation or something is not interesting or relevant to them since they can get a faster system by spending money on faster hardware. What they want from the software is robustness. Code speed is secondary. Also, apps, utilities and higher-level stuff that is flakey can be worked-around, but only if that stuff exists at all. 8. File creation (particularly directories) appears to be slow compared to other BSD-like systems. They say the stats for INN and CNEWS for articles processed per second are quite a bit lower than that on some "other" systems. They say that file deletion seems to be a bit slower than BSDI, but not by much. I think they are talking 2.0.5 on this item, although one ISP was experimenting with 1026 SNAP. 9. A concern that man pages don't stay formatted. They would rather chew disk space than have newbies constantly reformatting 'ls' and 'cat'. They seem to want the old BSD-style arrangement where the first time a page is accessed it gets formatted and then that copy hangs around for future reference. This seemed like something they could fix themselves, but they responded that there are dozens of things like this that they would have to re-tweak everytime the system was updated. To me this didn't seem to important, but they mentioned it. Listen to your customer... 10. More support for high-end hardware. I put this last because it is one of the harder things for FreeBSD to do much about since hardware vendors don't always want to tell us the tricks to making their hardware work. They aren't just talking about plug-in cards. These guys are interested in multiple-processors, things that make load scale nicely, extremely fast interconnects between systems, shared disk farms, Video-delivery bandwidths, etc. Having Support the latest whizzo video cards aren't a big deal to them, but support for disk controllers, CPUs and network interfaces are. This makes their priorities different in general from those that the average FreeBSD user probably has. Most of us aren't ready to pop down and buy a four-processor P6 system with 256Meg of RAM and three 100Mbit network interfaces, but these guys are. That was just about it. Again, take it as the concerns of some people who are using or would like to use FreeBSD, but see peril or limitations lurking that they are not willing to justify or risk. We can't convert everybody, but perhaps some of these issues are resolvable in the near future. Whew! Replies to current@freebsd.org please. :r sig From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 21:57:38 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA24923 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:57:38 -0800 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA24917 for current@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:57:36 -0800 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199511120557.VAA24917@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: ISP state their FreeBSD concerns To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:57:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org" at Nov 11, 95 09:07:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4159 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > 3. A concern about things in FreeBSD that impact INN performance, or > force them to compile INN special for FreeBSD. They are talking > about MMAP support. Although some have stated in the mailing lists > that not using MMAP on FreeBSD doesn't have a penalty, these guys > are almost universally convinced that not using MMAP defeats the > purpose of all the RAM they bought or will yield slower performance > than some other system, probably because on a lot of other operating > systems this is very true. > There have been problems with this. If anyone is willing to work with me "intimately" on this -- including helping me track the problems down, let me know. I think that it should be better now in -current, but I need feedback. I probably know the VM system as well as anyone, but I don't have a user site to work directly with. I am very flexible, and generally very easy to work with -- this is a call for participation!!! > > They also cry out against further changes to executable headers and > password file formats. Changes made in these areas in the past > are not popular to these guys as it requires far to much work > to uprade accounts and such. They also don't like include > files changing around too much, because FreeBSD doesn't provide > ports for everything, and now code that used to compile may not > just because someone made something "tidy". Changes like this > in the name of POSIX are considered "stupid". > In general, I agree with this unless not changing (cleaning up) things will get in the way of progress in the future. > > > This whole area is a very religious issue (boy do I know) and > there are many people volunteering on FreeBSD that are very good at > working on particular things (like down in one specific part of > the kernel) and getting them to work instead on DOSEMU or > whatever the hot item is that month probably isn't practical (they > may hate doing it and go away). > I will work on (or fix) almost any part of the kernel if paid $$$ :-). > > 8. File creation (particularly directories) appears to be slow compared > to other BSD-like systems. They say the stats for INN and CNEWS > for articles processed per second are quite a bit lower than that > on some "other" systems. They say that file deletion seems to be > a bit slower than BSDI, but not by much. I think they are talking > 2.0.5 on this item, although one ISP was experimenting with 1026 SNAP. > I am working on this stuff right now. Give me benchmarks!!!! I'll do what I can. > > To me this didn't seem to important, but they mentioned it. > Listen to your customer... > I agree with this more than anyone thinks. I am my own customer. With my kernel hacker hat on -- things work great. But, when something stupid happens with the system in front of one of my customers -- it hurts (and at times pi**es me off big time.) On FreeBSD we try to stay out of the ivory tower, but sometimes we end up back there. > > That was just about it. Again, take it as the concerns of some people > who are using or would like to use FreeBSD, but see peril or limitations > lurking that they are not willing to justify or risk. We can't convert > everybody, but perhaps some of these issues are resolvable in the > near future. > Firstly, regarding performance issues (incl MMAP probs) send benchmarks &/or example code!!! Those are the things that get me to work on the problems the quickest!!! (Just saying innd doesnt work with MMAP does not help, even though it is better than not knowing there is a problem, I need test code that breaks.) We also need more people to help with certain kernel issues (Linux compat probs, for example.) Also, the 2.1 release has slowed us down alot. Question? I am looking at FS layering issues right now, is that less important than better Linux compat (e.g. their bogus 1k a.out offset thing?) If it is, I can make lots of progress quickly on that. Hmm... maybe we have a prioritization problem??? STREAM OF CONCIOUSNESS: do we need to discuss in general the priorities of things that our user base needs??? John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 22:29:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA25459 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:29:44 -0800 Received: from DATAPLEX.NET (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA25453 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:29:42 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by DATAPLEX.NET with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Sun, 12 Nov 1995 00:19:37 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 00:19:35 -0600 To: Mark Valentine From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Getting to the root of building Makefiles Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, root@deadline.snafu.de Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Valentine writes: >One way to help make source trees self-sufficient might be to start every >Makefile with something like: > > TOP = ../.. > > .MAKEFLAGS: -I${TOP}/share/mk > >(where the ../.. varies according to the position in the source tree). Generally on the right line of thinking ... Only you cannot always use ../.. to get back to the correct top of the tree. If I merge multiple trees with symbolic links, then I cannot follow the tree up to get to the root of MY tree. The other problem with this approach is that it is some inconvenience to move a sub tree. For example, if we wished to merge the gnu tree with the usr.bin tree, or conversely, if we wished to split a collection out of the tree and place in its own alternate tree. My approach would be to establish a ROOT and reference the MAKEFLAGS relative to that root. After all, we need the same facility for the includes, etc. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 22:34:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA25542 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:34:21 -0800 Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA25537 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:34:18 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA16492; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:34:04 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199511120634.WAA16492@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ISP state their FreeBSD concerns To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:34:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511120557.VAA24917@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at Nov 11, 95 09:57:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 283 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ... > STREAM OF CONCIOUSNESS: do we need to discuss in general the priorities > of things that our user base needs??? YES! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 22:38:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA25677 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:38:32 -0800 Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA25672 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:38:26 -0800 Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD-4.4) id RAA26875; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 17:38:12 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199511120638.RAA26875@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/pppd RELNOTES To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 17:38:11 +1100 (EST) Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199511120341.FAA08651@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Nov 12, 95 05:41:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2460 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu writes: > ZIP is computationally expensive .. you'll speed most of your time in the > Huh? > hsu#hauki.clinet.fi Sun 37: time gzip -1 < csh > /dev/null .. ah .. this is not the default compression method. You should've said :-) > This was on a P90, -current from two weeks back. For comparison and using the default method on a 386DX/40 also running -current .. asstdc:~ % time gzip /dev/null 9.417u 0.109s 0:10.63 89.4% 100+624k 9+0io 10pf+0w asstdc:~ % time gzip < /bin/csh > /dev/null 9.841u 0.062s 0:09.98 99.1% 99+614k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time gzip < /bin/csh > /dev/null 9.100u 0.078s 0:09.30 98.6% 99+616k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time gzip < /bin/csh > /dev/null 10.018u 0.108s 0:10.67 94.7% 100+619k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time gzip < /bin/csh > /dev/null 9.319u 0.093s 0:10.48 89.6% 101+630k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time gzip < /bin/csh > /dev/null 9.230u 0.046s 0:09.37 98.9% 99+617k 0+0io 0pf+0w => mean of ~9.49 user secs. asstdc:~ % time compress /dev/null 3.315u 0.108s 0:03.42 99.7% 19+727k 2+0io 1pf+0w asstdc:~ % time compress < /bin/csh > /dev/null 2.822u 0.093s 0:02.90 100.3% 20+728k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time compress < /bin/csh > /dev/null 2.900u 0.094s 0:03.03 98.6% 20+733k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time compress < /bin/csh > /dev/null 2.816u 0.101s 0:02.91 100.0% 19+729k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time compress < /bin/csh > /dev/null 2.810u 0.117s 0:02.91 100.3% 20+729k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time compress < /bin/csh > /dev/null 3.349u 0.109s 0:03.44 100.0% 18+730k 0+0io 0pf+0w asstdc:~ % time compress < /bin/csh > /dev/null 2.862u 0.109s 0:02.99 98.9% 19+729k 0+0io 0pf+0w => mean of ~2.982 user secs. Without the qualification of not using the default method, ZIP is ~300% more computationally expensive. We are both right .. just talking about quite different things. The difference is size is also quite marked .. the default gives .. -r-xr-xr-x 1 imb staff 237568 Nov 12 17:27 csh -r-xr-xr-x 1 imb staff 124868 Nov 12 17:26 csh.gz At an estimated 3000 bytes per second down a 28k8 modem link and with my 386, this would translate into 9 seconds of CPU for 41 seconds of transfer time or a load average of ~0.22 not counting any other system or interrupt overhead. This is getting rather steep as I have 3 such modems directly attached to this box and the reason why I was concerned. There is a very fixed limit where it runs out of "puff" :-( michael From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 22:50:01 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA26126 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:50:01 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA26115 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:49:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA14488 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:49:46 -0800 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISP state their FreeBSD concerns In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 11 Nov 1995 21:07:00 +0700." Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:49:46 -0800 Message-ID: <14486.816158986@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk First off, I really have to wonder why Frank Durda went to what was obviously a considerable effort to be anonymous. The message had no signature and has been sent with a "From" of -current. C'mon Frank, we don't bite! Valid criticism always has a place in these lists and going out of your way to mask its origin only calls its validity into question unnecessarily. If I didn't know you were the only poster we've ever had from fw.ast.com, I might have thought this was something with a deeper political agenda from one of the other *BSD advocates and ignored it. That said, on to the points raised. > I've compiled a list of the "top ten" things that bug these guys > that we should consider correcting, or perhaps improving the documentation > to dispell a falsehood or explain-away a concern. It is also > entirely possible that these people had exposure to older releases and > that the problems that worry them no longer exist. Well, I'll certainly do my best to address these points, as I'm sure will others, but it does beg the question: How do we get the information back to them? If you're willing to act as a conduit, great, otherwise it'll be something of a wasted effort.. > 1. A concern that FreeBSD tends to "bind" for brief periods when > loaded. Here is how it was described to me: You will be doing > something (like skimming news articles in trn or tin) that is This one really needs some additional context. Suffice it to say that I've not experienced such behavior myself, and that's about all one can say with a fairly subjective report like this. That's not to say that it's totally lacking in validity, but consider what you yourself would do with a user report that "the system seemed slow." You'd naturally want to know how many processes were running, what version of the OS was being used, that kind of thing. In this instance you say that "something starts up" but you don't say what it is. Doing Tape I/O is something that's traditionally had a really bad impact on the performance of *every* UNIX variant I've ever seen, so if you're saying that the event in question is the operator starting a full dump from the console, well, "duh!" :-) No, I'm not flaming you or shooting the messenger, I'm just saying that there are always two categories of bug reports: Ones that give you enough information to go on that you actually have a hope of doing something about them and others more the nature of "Your system sucks, dudes! Make it better!" Issue #1 leans more towards the latter category. > 2. A concern that disk I/O on large (4GB or bigger) hard disks or > large numbers of hard disks is not reliable, particularly on > systems with more than 32MB of RAM. There has been a lot of As an OS concern, this is untrue. There were some problems we had with Quantum Grand Prix drives going south in record numbers, but that's hardly something that the FreeBSD project has any control over. Tell your ISPs that not all drives are created equal and that they should find a winning combination before blaming the OS. Also mention that today's winning combo may not necessarily be tomorrow's. I had great luck with the GP drives until Quantum's quality control suddenly took an unexplained nose-dive. As in all things, you just gotta keep your ears open and be willing to investigate problems as thoroughly as possible before pointing any fingers - this stuff isn't that simple anymore! Also, the point should be made right here and now that, as a general rule, PCs hardware sucks dead gophers through miles of steel conduit. There's simply no comparison between a high-end workstation where all components are carefully matched by a single manufacturer and a bastard potpourri of components flung together from 46 different manufacturers in as many countries. If you can afford an SGI Challenge, BUY ONE I say! If you can't, or you're really addicted to having your own sources (one of our few distinct advantages), then go for a PC but go into it with your eyes fully open and wholly aware that you're about to tap-dance through a minefield. It is possible to get to the other side without being blown to bits, but you have to either be a really skilled dancer or a very lucky one. > 3. A concern about things in FreeBSD that impact INN performance, or > force them to compile INN special for FreeBSD. They are talking > about MMAP support. Although some have stated in the mailing lists > that not using MMAP on FreeBSD doesn't have a penalty, these guys > are almost universally convinced that not using MMAP defeats the > purpose of all the RAM they bought or will yield slower performance > than some other system, probably because on a lot of other operating > systems this is very true. I think that this one has finally been addressed. It was broken for awhile, but if I'm not mistaken, the current port and OS combination uses mmap() to its fullest potential. If I'm wrong, someone here will no doubt correct me! :-) > 4. A concern about problems related to filesystem stacks, such as > ISO9660 and DOS. (They may be talking about Samba, and not > the actual mounting of DOS filesystems.) One of the ISO9660 > issues is the one I reported last week where a plain user > can easily break all mounted ISO9660 access and hang all processes > that attempt to access the ISO filesystems. (We discovered this > on one of the local ISPs archive server - they were not pleased.) > These guys with lots of CD-ROMs mounted on their systems don't > like the sound of that remaining broken for any period of time, > particularly when it ripples to other systems via NFS. DOS filesystem support is broken. I would not be surprised to learn that the ISO9660 support was full of mice as well. Neither of these things will be fixed until either: 1. Somebody volunteers the time. 2. Writes me a check for enough money to pay someone to do it. It's a sad fact, but there you have it. One of the many downsides to trying to do this as a volunteer effort. Sometimes you just gotta say "Yeah, it's broken. Sorry!" as much as it pains you to do so. You might remind the ISPs that this is a FREE product and if they're actively interested in seeing it fixed, maybe they can donate some of the time of one of their programmers to try and fix it? I'm not being catty, this is genuinely one of those areas where some buy-in to the free software ethos is required by the end-user or things just don't move forward. They can either spend their money on BSD/OS, which may indeed be the very best decision to make and not something I can recommend either way, or they can think about what would happen if every ISP donated just one or two hours of programmer time a month to help fix things. Everybody would win, of course, but such advanced ways of thinking about their bottom line is not always easy to impart. > 5. Not at all obvious what system resources to increase for > large and/or heavily loaded systems, and what ratios of > parameter settings are best. Apparently SUN, SCO and even Linux > have a lot of documentation in this area and FreeBSDs is > limited, missing or not obvious. I know SCO used to have True. See above.. :-) > 6. Multi-port serial support and even single-port serial support. > Seems they feel hardware flow control doesn't work or isn't enabled > when it should be (or can't be) or both. This may actually be > an issue with the 16550 drivers not setting silo depth to a > reasonable level. Most of these guys use terminal servers for > the actual users where these local serial ports are used for UPS, > router control, serial printers, and other in-house controls. They > complain of seeing problems with lost data outbound when flow > control was in use, including during UUCP sessions. I use a standard serial port for a 115.2K ISDN connection and it works *great*, even better than a friend of mine who's using a Cisco for the purpose and looks enviously at my 10.5K/sec FTP transfer rates when he's only getting 7K. Not to say that this scales to hundreds of serial ports or anything, but it does work! > 7. Concern that there is still a lot of "tinkering under the hood" in > FreeBSD in areas that aren't broadening the system as a whole. It's hard to address this one without specifics, but I think that I can answer the larger concern here by pointing at our -stable and -current branches. We are sensitive to the needs of ISPs and the 2.1.x releases will be almost entirely for people like them. An approach that denied the rocket jockys a chance to advance the state-of-the-art would be equally flawed, and the best you can hope for is to give each interest group its own distinct playground. > They point to Linux, where the core seems to be going through > few changes (what about the "FT" guys?), or a purchased system > (SUN/SCO) which sees a maintenance release that only alters a small 1. Linux is hardly unchanging, the FT effort being still mostly on the drawing board. 2. SCO doesn't change because it's been *moribund* for years! They started with a mediocre system and enshrined it. You won't get very far with me by holding them up as any sort of paragon to be emulated. I've done my time with SCO, from both ends of the picture, and all of it was unilaterally horrible. > percentage of the system each year. It is hard to argue this point > as FreeBSD still struggles to get its 4.4lite issues completely > cleaned up and major architectural changes are still pretty common. Well, it's going to take us some time to recover from the 4.4 merge and there's just no getting around it. See my previous comments about donations of time. > 8. File creation (particularly directories) appears to be slow compared > to other BSD-like systems. They say the stats for INN and CNEWS > for articles processed per second are quite a bit lower than that > on some "other" systems. They say that file deletion seems to be > a bit slower than BSDI, but not by much. I think they are talking > 2.0.5 on this item, although one ISP was experimenting with 1026 SNAP. It would help if they could percolate this down to some benchmarks that could be easily run by the people responsible for enhancing said performance. It's hard to speed up what you can't reproduce without being on-site with the ISP. > 9. A concern that man pages don't stay formatted. They would rather > chew disk space than have newbies constantly reformatting 'ls' and > 'cat'. They seem to want the old BSD-style arrangement where the Pilot error. They don't have the cat directories created. I also went to special trouble to make sure that these get created now by default, so this may also be a moot point. > 10. More support for high-end hardware. I put this last because > it is one of the harder things for FreeBSD to do much about > since hardware vendors don't always want to tell us the tricks We're working on it, though if some people want to DONATE said high-end hardware to us so that we have a better chance of actually doing it, it would be a great help.w These people don't expect us to go out of pocket for $8K multi-CPU P6 machines now do they? Your ISPs seem to expect a lot if so! :-) > That was just about it. Again, take it as the concerns of some people > who are using or would like to use FreeBSD, but see peril or limitations > lurking that they are not willing to justify or risk. We can't convert > everybody, but perhaps some of these issues are resolvable in the > near future. They're all resolvable, but only if someone is willing to put in the time and/or money. I don't have a magic whip that will make all the volunteers work harder and faster, nor would I feel particularly inclined to use it even if I did. These people are putting in a lot of effort for free (yourself included) and they can only work so hard and so fast. Breaking through any additional barriers will require something more, though I'm still not exactly sure what it is. Money? Revitalizing FreeBSD, Inc. and making it a for-profit org that tries to inject some much-needed full time effort by paid programmers? I'm open to suggestions. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 23:17:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA27021 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:17:48 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27015 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:17:44 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id BAA25951; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 01:17:12 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511120717.BAA25951@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: ISP state their FreeBSD concerns To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 01:17:11 -0600 (CST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199511120557.VAA24917@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at Nov 11, 95 09:57:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > > 3. A concern about things in FreeBSD that impact INN performance, or > > force them to compile INN special for FreeBSD. They are talking > > about MMAP support. Although some have stated in the mailing lists > > that not using MMAP on FreeBSD doesn't have a penalty, these guys > > are almost universally convinced that not using MMAP defeats the > > purpose of all the RAM they bought or will yield slower performance > > than some other system, probably because on a lot of other operating > > systems this is very true. > > There have been problems with this. If anyone is willing to work with > me "intimately" on this -- including helping me track the problems > down, let me know. I think that it should be better now in -current, > but I need feedback. I probably know the VM system as well as anyone, > but I don't have a user site to work directly with. I am very flexible, > and generally very easy to work with -- this is a call for participation!!! I would much rather do whatever I can to help you track down problems now and gain a much better system ... and I can certainly give you full access to news.sol.net, even console access thanks to serial consoles :-) >From a kernel debugging standpoint I am rather weak, but am pretty good at quantifying problems and building tests to cause repeatable failures. > > 8. File creation (particularly directories) appears to be slow compared > > to other BSD-like systems. They say the stats for INN and CNEWS > > for articles processed per second are quite a bit lower than that > > on some "other" systems. They say that file deletion seems to be > > a bit slower than BSDI, but not by much. I think they are talking > > 2.0.5 on this item, although one ISP was experimenting with 1026 SNAP. > > I am working on this stuff right now. Give me benchmarks!!!! I'll > do what I can. This noted as well. I am frustrated that I cannot seem to hit more than a PEAK of 4 arts/sec without MMAP, or around 5.5-6 with MMAP. My pet Solaris news server, with PrestoServe and 128MB RAM, and only 4 disks, can peak out at around 15. I do know that with only 48MB of RAM, news.sol.net takes more of a hit on history lookups (expected), but with the I/O load spread over a dozen disks, I would expect that would compensate somewhat... I haven't been able to quantify exactly what the factors are. news.sol.net will hopefully get an upgrade to 64MB or 80MB in the coming month, which will help level the playing field between it and Spool (the Solaris box). > Firstly, regarding performance issues (incl MMAP probs) send benchmarks &/or > example code!!! Those are the things that get me to work on the problems > the quickest!!! (Just saying innd doesnt work with MMAP does not help, > even though it is better than not knowing there is a problem, I need test code > that breaks.) We also need more people to help with certain kernel > issues (Linux compat probs, for example.) Also, the 2.1 release has slowed us > down alot. Test code that breaks, problematic - at least as far as MMAP goes. MMAP appears to work fine at first glance, but the panic rate of the system goes from once every few weeks to once every two or three days. I have no idea what tickles it. I can probably get you some numbers in terms of file creation/removal rates on both Solaris x86 and FreeBSD 2.1R (well, SNAP). I don't know what they will look like so it would be a doubly interesting test for me to perform. If there is anything I can do to help your testing and development - for heaven's sake, LET ME KNOW. I am quite resourceful and am sure most any need you might have could be addressed.... Your efforts ARE appreciated and it's the least I can do. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Nov 11 23:31:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA27529 for current-outgoing; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:31:57 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27524 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:31:55 -0800 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id BAA25976; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 01:30:51 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199511120730.BAA25976@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: ISP state their FreeBSD concerns To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 01:30:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <14486.816158986@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Nov 11, 95 10:49:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Notes: > > 1. A concern that FreeBSD tends to "bind" for brief periods when > > loaded. Here is how it was described to me: You will be doing > > something (like skimming news articles in trn or tin) that is > > This one really needs some additional context. Suffice it to say that > I've not experienced such behavior myself, and that's about all one > can say with a fairly subjective report like this. That's not to say > that it's totally lacking in validity, but consider what you yourself > would do with a user report that "the system seemed slow." You'd > naturally want to know how many processes were running, what version > of the OS was being used, that kind of thing. In this instance you > say that "something starts up" but you don't say what it is. Doing > Tape I/O is something that's traditionally had a really bad impact > on the performance of *every* UNIX variant I've ever seen, so if you're > saying that the event in question is the operator starting a full dump > from the console, well, "duh!" :-) No, I'm not flaming you or shooting > the messenger, I'm just saying that there are always two categories > of bug reports: Ones that give you enough information to go on that > you actually have a hope of doing something about them and others > more the nature of "Your system sucks, dudes! Make it better!" Specific example of a system grinding to a halt in an "unexpected" manner: System, ASUS PCI/I P54*something Pentium 100 motherboard, a Rod Grimes board, dual NCR 810 controllers, 2x ST-12550N 2G Barracuda SCSI drives, 2x Micropolis 4G SCSI drives, 64MB RAM. FreeBSD 2.0.5R. Doing "newfs -b 4096 -f 512 /dev/sd10s1e" took the system down into the ground as far as I was concerned. I figured it would take a while to newfs a 4G drive, so I went to next console, logged in, noticed it was very sluggish, and tried to do a newfs on another drive. It worked but everything was extreeeeeeemely slow. I haven't looked recently to see if this still "happens". > Tell your ISPs that not all drives are created equal and that they > should find a winning combination before blaming the OS. Also mention > that today's winning combo may not necessarily be tomorrow's. I had > great luck with the GP drives until Quantum's quality control suddenly > took an unexplained nose-dive. As in all things, you just gotta keep > your ears open and be willing to investigate problems as thoroughly > as possible before pointing any fingers - this stuff isn't that simple > anymore! This is very true. news.sol.net runs a dozen drives on three SCSI channels and has performed _great_!! Aside from some nightmares configuring the PCI stuff (I still owe Stefan some debugging output), this is one area where FreeBSD excels. I _have_ seen cases where a particular controller and drive did not like each other (2.0.5R/NCR-810/ST-15150N, etc) but this is the exception rather than the rule, and even then, one can generally upgrade to more recent drivers and fix the problem. Just mild commentary, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847