From owner-freebsd-doc Sun Dec 17 17:56:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20378 for doc-outgoing; Sun, 17 Dec 1995 17:56:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20350 for ; Sun, 17 Dec 1995 17:55:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.7.1/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id JAA10162 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA22110; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:22:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:22:33 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Sean Kelly cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Time to do more writing In-Reply-To: <9512111758.AA00551@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > Here's an outline, but I have no idea if it's good: Planning on writing a book? :-) This looks pretty good. Something to consider is that this is basically *TCP/IP* networking and it seems like plain terminal connections are somewhat lost in the IP ocean. I'm not sure how best to do it, but I would like to see non-tcp/ip stuff split out into a distinct "old technologies" section to make it easier to find. I think security issues also must be addressed somewhere because networking and security are pretty much married to each other. We could either stick security concerns in-line, or build a vaguely parallel part on security issues and provide cross links. I lean toward the latter because it allows people who already have the technical side of networking down quickly find security information without digging through lots of material they already know. Our current material on security might lend itself to this arrangement. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Dec 18 17:03:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03111 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:03:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03094 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA25581; Mon, 18 Dec 95 19:03:25 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA03992; Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:03:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:03:20 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9512190103.AA03992@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: erich@lodgenet.com Cc: doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512081633.KAA18163@jake.lodgenet.com> (erich@lodgenet.com) Subject: Re: new device driver doc Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Sorry I took so long! I'm sure you know how it goes. As author, you have the right to ignore as much of this as you desire: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Line 28: The FreeBSD kernel is very well documented, unfortunately it's all in `C'. I'm not sure what this statement has to do with the rest of the document ... it seems editorial, and might not add much to the usefulness of the instruction. Line 39: source form reside in /usr/src/sys/i386/isa. Consider putting the pathname in ... font. Also, not all the device drivers are in this subdirectory, right? Line 40: NetBSD uses something like sys/arch/dev for drivers. Big deal. This should be an instructional FreeBSD-related document; I'd just remove this sentence. Line 42: FreeBSD currently has support for several bus architectures. Reword to introduce the list: ``... for the following bus architectures:'' Line 51: In FreeBSD, support for the isa and eisa busses is i386 specific. Insert hyphen: i386-specific. Line 57: /usr/src/sys/{pci,pccard,scsi}. The i386 specific code for these Insert hyphen: i386-specific. Line 61: no ``official'' place for binary drivers to reside. BSD/OS uses Again, what BSD/OS uses isn't of concern for this document. Perhaps we should standardize on a location soon so we can document it. Line 67: [filenames] Consider using and/or to show that these are filenames and to show the variable parts of each. Line 73: compiled and dumped into a header file ala file2c(1). Replace `ala' with `using a utility like'. Line 91: the lkm model. The first method is fairly standard across lkm is an acronym, so make it all-caps everywhere it appears. Also, spell it out just the first time: ``... the Loadable Kernel Module (LKM) model.'' Line 91: The first method is fairly standard across the *BSD family. Nay, across most all UNIXes, eh? Line 94: I don't believe that the current implementation uses any Sun code. Not important to audience, so consider removing it. Line 96: Standard Device Driver The previous paragraph introduced two models: the static model and the LKM model. Which is the standard model? You could say so in the previous paragraph or reword this section title by saying something like ``Standard (Static) Device Driver.'' Line 99: The steps required to add your driver to the standard ... Since the steps that follow should be done (more or less) in order, use a list instead of an unordered list. Line 113: dependant on the cpu ... If the device is not i386 specific Spelling: dependent. Hypne: i386-specific Line 123: something like ``i386/OBJ/joy.o''. Consider font for pathnames. Also applies to lines 132, 135, 136, 140, and 161. Line 125: Some devices are required for the kernel to even be built. A bit clumsy; try: ``Though many devices are listed as optional, they are required to build a working kernel.'' Line 191: there will always be an entry for your driver, either null entry Introduce the alternatives with a colon: ``... for you driver: either ...'' Line 246: Minor number is driver dependant, of course. You can Hyphen & spelling: driver-dependent. Line 266: the lkm specific Hyphen & caps: ``the LKM-specific.'' Line 270 as well. Line 278: Lines 17 - 26 Why not make this a heading? Alternatively, you could use the list mechanism. Line 281: whether or not we have a pcaudio device defined. This ``or not'' is implicit from ``whether'' so you could delete it. Line 525: Note: this has gone through This section describes the entry points you'll use while developing your driver. FreeBSD provides these functions and uses these structures to communicate information to and from your device.'' I'm not suggesting you use exactly that, just something like it. The same applies to line 1034. Also, in this section beginning around line 1034, having a separate heading for these functions is probably overkill. Another list would work fine. The same applies to the references. Use a `` References'' heading but list each reference as a list item. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA In weight lifting, I don't think sudden, uncontrolled urination should automatically disqualify you. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-doc Mon Dec 18 22:16:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA25293 for doc-outgoing; Mon, 18 Dec 1995 22:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from soho.ios.com (root@soho.ios.com [198.4.75.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA25288 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 1995 22:16:31 -0800 (PST) From: joe@soho.ios.com Received: (from joe@localhost) by soho.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA04885; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 01:09:04 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 01:09:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199512190609.BAA04885@soho.ios.com> To: doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2.3.7 BETA X-Personal_name: Kent Robotti Subject: freebsd handbook Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is their anyway to download the freebsd handbook, is it in zip form anyware. Thanx in advance. From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 00:45:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA01204 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 00:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (dial23.phoenix.net [199.3.234.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01124 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 00:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA01788 for freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 02:43:52 -0600 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199512190843.CAA01788@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Handbook Stuff To: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 02:43:50 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello, My lawyer brought this too me so.... Question: Who holds the primary copyright on the Handbook??? It is not listed anywhere I can find:( We also have 3 files in the handbook (scsi, printing and esdi) that have just a "Copyright 199X so and so" and no mention of a license. This causes problems for the simple fact that I've had to make some fairly major mods to the entire handbook so as to get a consistent look to it. Here is what has been done. o Make each document a compleate document by itself (e.g printing.sgml was this way to begin with) o Proof read each doc, make corrections where needed. (These will go back to the project when I have time) o Split the contrib section into 3 areas. (Core, Developer(listed commiter), Contributor) o I may have to re-write the SCSI section (or just leave it out) due to the fact that the author inserted copyright statements within the document itself. I have no problems listing an author at the beginging of the book, but this would not be consistent with the rest of the document. Printing is not a big problem if I have Seans' permission to print it. Here is a proposal: 1. All generic documents (meaning all docs produced by doc team) be copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. 2. Require all other documents be under a BSD style. 3. List the license in each file as a comment. Note: This is just for the handbook. Not other documents. There might be a place and time where a large printer may want to pick this up...:) Gary Another NOTE: We may want to think about doing this for the sources also. There are many files within the tree that say this coded was contributed to UCB and name the author. Make the copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. and give a credit within the license to the person who developed it. Gary Clark II (N5VMF) gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 03:23:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA09209 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 03:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA09198 for freebsd-doc; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 03:23:30 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199512191123.DAA09198@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Changes to the handbook To: freebsd-doc Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 03:23:29 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello, Here is another proposal for the handbook. Add the FAQ as to be part of the handbook proper. I've added the FAQ to the appendix in the printed version of the handbook. Would anyone be real adverse to this change going into the ascii/html versions? It makes for a neater setup and compile. (just do a make in the handbook directory and you get the whole shebang) Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/docs/freebsd-faq.ascii From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 06:52:26 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA09558 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 06:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA09550 Tue, 19 Dec 1995 06:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA05060; Tue, 19 Dec 95 08:52:21 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA20497; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:52:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:52:19 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9512191452.AA20497@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: gclarkii@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512190843.CAA01788@main.gbdata.com> (message from Gary Clark II on Tue, 19 Dec 1995 02:43:50 -0600 (CST)) Subject: Re: Handbook Stuff Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Gary" == Gary Clark writes: Gary> I have no problems listing an author at the beginging of the Gary> book, but this would not be consistent with the rest of the Gary> document. Printing is not a big problem if I have Seans' Gary> permission to print it. You've got it. I hereby grant permission, etc., etc., etc., to Gary Clark II, etc., etc., etc., to photograph, print, publish, store in a retrieval system, etc., the chapter on printing. I'd like the material I submitted to be treated as if it were under the spirit and/or the letter of your typical BSD license. If someone whose appropriately annointed could insert the license, that'd be super. We can come up with a BSD-DOC license, if it's really needed. We could probably collapse the first two clauses of the BSD license, maybe say that the notice needs to be included in the front matter or its non-printed equivalent, something like that. Gary> 1. All generic documents (meaning all docs produced by doc Gary> team) be copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. 2. Require all Gary> other documents be under a BSD style. 3. List the license Gary> in each file as a comment. Sounds good. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA A man doesn't automatically get my respect. He has to get down in the dirt and beg for it. -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 07:13:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA13143 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:13:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from Post-Office.UH.EDU (Post-Office.UH.EDU [129.7.1.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA12992 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) id <01HYZIJX1WEW000BKZ@Post-Office.UH.EDU> for doc@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:12:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA12292 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:33:29 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA05766; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:10:23 -0600 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:10:23 -0600 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Handbook Stuff In-reply-to: <199512190843.CAA01788@main.gbdata.com> To: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com Cc: doc@freebsd.org Message-id: <199512191410.IAA05766@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.doc Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Gary Clark II wrote: >Another NOTE: We may want to think about doing this for the sources also. >There are many files within the tree that say this coded was contributed >to UCB and name the author. Make the copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. >and give a credit within the license to the person who developed it. Is that legal? I'm not trying to stir up trouble or nothing, but it seems a little on the shady side. Please feel free to correct me if I'm confused... From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 08:10:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA18815 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:10:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiley.muc.ditec.de (wiley.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18760 Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.enet (slip139-92-42-143.emea.ibm.net [139.92.42.143]) by wiley.muc.ditec.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00581; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:08:44 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.enet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA03631; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:05:58 +0100 Message-Id: <199512191405.PAA03631@vector.enet> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.enet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: gclarkii@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handbook Stuff Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. (Internet Unix & C Consultants) Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany Phone: +49.89.268616 Fax: +49.89.2608126 (pending reconfig) Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ Mailer: EXMH version 1.6.4 10/10/95 In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Dec 1995 02:43:50 CST." <199512190843.CAA01788@main.gbdata.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:05:57 +0100 From: "Julian H. Stacey" Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Reference: > Another NOTE: We may want to think about doing this for the sources also. > There are many files within the tree that say this coded was contributed > to UCB and name the author. Make the copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. > and give a credit within the license to the person who developed it. I would not want to see anything that passed Public sources back to private hands (& FreeBSD Inc is private, even if we know the friends that run it). What happens if FreeBSD goes belly up one day ? & someone buys the dead corporate carcus ... we lose the code ! No Way, Thank You. IMHO The code & the docs Must remain truly public (& not just BSD public), so that Linux & GNU & Sprite & Mach etc folk can share & enjoy (& cross fertilise). It's a natural question for a lawyer to ask, it's not so easy to craft a solution though. It's probably better to just stick to our standard BSD style header (the one we see plastered all over), & just strike out UCB & insert your own name when you write a new module. Regards, Julian. -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 08:21:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19524 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:21:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from luna.cas.usf.edu (josepheb@luna.cas.usf.edu [131.247.33.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19507 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:21:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (josepheb@localhost) by luna.cas.usf.edu (8.6.11/8.6.5) id LAA19890; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:14:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:14:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph E. Butts - USF" X-Sender: josepheb@luna To: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Web stuff Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi!:) If it's possible I would like to get the entire FreeBSD handbook as one complete doc instead of going through all the links and printing each page(mail as an attachment in a return e-mail if you can). You should have the doc on the web in one piece for printing, it's really easier than reading a computer screen IMHO. Thanx for you help in advance!! Joe josepheb@luna.cas.usf.edu From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 09:12:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23249 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23206 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA19958; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:09:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:09:43 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Peter da Silva cc: gclarkii@main.gbdata.com, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Handbook Stuff In-Reply-To: <199512191410.IAA05766@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > Gary Clark II wrote: > >Another NOTE: We may want to think about doing this for the sources also. > >There are many files within the tree that say this coded was contributed > >to UCB and name the author. Make the copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. > >and give a credit within the license to the person who developed it. > > Is that legal? I made an announcement quite some time ago requesting contributors to claim copyright and that any unclaimed material would be copyright FreeBSD, Inc. I didn't get a single response. Also, the S/Key document is copyright MIT but it is only in the source; it needs to be in the formatted copy as well. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 09:59:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA25378 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:59:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25372 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:59:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA08163; Tue, 19 Dec 95 11:59:15 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA20632; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:59:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 10:59:13 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9512191759.AA20632@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: josepheb@luna.cas.usf.edu Cc: doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: (josepheb@luna.cas.usf.edu) Subject: Re: Web stuff Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph E Butts <- USF" > writes: Joseph> Hi!:) If it's possible I would like to get the entire Joseph> FreeBSD handbook as one complete doc instead of going Joseph> through all the links and printing each page(mail as an Joseph> attachment in a return e-mail if you can). You should Joseph> have the doc on the web in one piece for printing, it's Joseph> really easier than reading a computer screen IMHO. Thanx Joseph> for you help in advance!! Considering how often this request appears, that's a good idea. John: could we have a link, perhaps on the ``Documentation'' page that just grabs one big PostScript file suitable for printing? Maybe even automate creating this file? -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA I think it's high time we started questioning the old cliches like "Grunt big for Daddy." -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 12:32:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA03713 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpdgw2.symbios.com (mpdgw2.symbios.com [204.131.200.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03672 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by mpdgw2.symbios.com (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) id NAA01612; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:30:44 -0700 Received: from aztec.ncrmicro.ncr.com(153.72.199.214) by mpdgw2.symbios.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001544; Tue Dec 19 13:30:14 1995 Received: from propwash.noname (propwash.NCRMicro.NCR.COM [153.72.178.4]) by Symbios.COM (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA18329; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:30:12 -0700 Received: from skyhook.noname by propwash.noname (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09588; Tue, 19 Dec 95 13:30:10 MST From: joelw@propwash.ncrmicro.ncr.com (Joel Ward) Message-Id: <9512192030.AA09588@propwash.noname> Subject: Re: Web stuff To: owner-freebsd-doc@freefall.freebsd.org (Sean Kelly) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:30:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: josepheb@luna.cas.usf.edu, doc@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9512191759.AA20632@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Dec 19, 95 10:59:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Considering how often this request appears, that's a good idea. > > John: could we have a link, perhaps on the ``Documentation'' page that > just grabs one big PostScript file suitable for printing? Maybe even > automate creating this file? > i think it would be a good idea too. is there a place on the ftp site anywhere where someone can grab a big .tar.gz file of all the HTML? if not, i'd say that would be the first step. if so, then i'd say the next step would be to make a bunch of littler, hierarchial postscript files in a tar.gz file. - Joel From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 13:32:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA07894 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from soho.ios.com (root@soho.ios.com [198.4.75.47]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07881 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:32:50 -0800 (PST) From: joe@soho.ios.com Received: (from joe@localhost) by soho.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA16422; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:25:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 16:25:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199512192125.QAA16422@soho.ios.com> To: doc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2.3.7 BETA X-Personal_name: Kent Robotti Subject: freebsd handbook Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk How can you download the freebsd handbook, I don't have a direct connection to the internet, I access it through my service provider, using lynx, so http://www/freebsd.org/handbook/handbook-html.tar.gz does'nt work, Is there a ftp address? From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 14:21:20 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA10615 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10599 Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00169; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:21:09 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA24099 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:21:06 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA10779 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 19 Dec 1995 21:27:32 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA01057; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:21:30 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199512191821.TAA01057@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Handbook Stuff To: gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:21:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512190843.CAA01788@main.gbdata.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Dec 19, 95 02:43:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > My lawyer brought this too me so.... Argh! Why do 1/2 of the worlds lawyers have to live in the US?? ;-) > o I may have to re-write the SCSI section (or just leave it out) > due to the fact that the author inserted copyright statements > within the document itself. I have no problems listing an > author at the beginging of the book, but this would not be > consistent with the rest of the document. > Printing is not a big problem if I have Seans' permission to > print it. It was me who wrote it. The (c) was just there to keep people from 'running away' with it. The intention is _not_ to keep a handbook from being published! So, I herewith grant you permission to use it. Any problem with that? > Another NOTE: We may want to think about doing this for the sources also. > There are many files within the tree that say this coded was contributed > to UCB and name the author. Make the copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. > and give a credit within the license to the person who developed it. Sounds fine to me. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-doc Tue Dec 19 22:42:15 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02154 for doc-outgoing; Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:42:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02145 Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id HAA02259 ; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:41:37 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id HAA21927 ; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:41:36 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id CAA10399; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 02:08:42 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199512200108.CAA10399@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Changes to the handbook To: gclarkii@freefall.freebsd.org (Gary Clark II) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 02:08:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-doc@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512191123.DAA09198@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Gary Clark II" at Dec 19, 95 03:23:29 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1449 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Gary Clark II said: > Add the FAQ as to be part of the handbook proper. > > I've added the FAQ to the appendix in the printed version of the handbook. > Would anyone be real adverse to this change going into the ascii/html > versions? It makes for a neater setup and compile. (just do a make > in the handbook directory and you get the whole shebang) I don't mind except that a pretty big appendix in itself... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #7: Mon Dec 18 00:50:47 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Dec 20 01:20:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA08902 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA08891 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Wed, 20 Dec 95 09:20 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA14162; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:18:14 +0100 Message-Id: <199512200918.KAA14162@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Handbook Stuff To: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:18:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512191410.IAA05766@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Dec 19, 95 08:10:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Peter da Silva writes: > > Gary Clark II wrote: > >Another NOTE: We may want to think about doing this for the sources also. > >There are many files within the tree that say this coded was contributed > >to UCB and name the author. Make the copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. > >and give a credit within the license to the person who developed it. > > Is that legal? > > I'm not trying to stir up trouble or nothing, but it seems a little on the > shady side. Please feel free to correct me if I'm confused... It's up to a lawyer to determine whether it's legal or not. I suspect that it's legal if we want it to be. Also, the issue of copyright doesn't mean that other people can't copy it: it means that the copyright owner has the right to decide whether other people can copy it. I think the basic intention of any copyright on the manual is that its distribution shouldn't be restricted, and that the work of the contributors should be acknowledged--very much the same as the Berkeley copyright. If you (doc people in general, not Peter) want to assign copyright to somebody to protect this right, and you're worried about FreeBSD Inc., how about assigning a fallback copyright to UCB, or just assign it to UCB in the first place, assuming they're interested in helping? Greg From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Dec 20 08:07:16 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26614 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26605 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA22012; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:06:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:06:55 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Joel Ward cc: Sean Kelly , josepheb@luna.cas.usf.edu, doc@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Web stuff In-Reply-To: <9512192030.AA09588@propwash.noname> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Joel Ward wrote: > i think it would be a good idea too. is there a place on the ftp site > anywhere where someone can grab a big .tar.gz file of all the HTML? ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/docs/handbook-html.tar.gz -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============ From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Dec 20 10:23:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08733 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:23:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (dial77.phoenix.net [199.3.234.112]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08671 Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:22:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA10703; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:20:56 -0600 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199512201820.MAA10703@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Changes to the handbook To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:20:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: gclarkii@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199512200108.CAA10399@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Dec 20, 95 02:08:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert wrote: > > It seems that Gary Clark II said: > > Add the FAQ as to be part of the handbook proper. > > > > I've added the FAQ to the appendix in the printed version of the handbook. > > Would anyone be real adverse to this change going into the ascii/html > > versions? It makes for a neater setup and compile. (just do a make > > in the handbook directory and you get the whole shebang) > > I don't mind except that a pretty big appendix in itself... > -- Ollivier, We could make the FAQ both a chapter in the handbook(not an appendix) and stand alone document. That way it could be posted and gotten at by itself. Gary From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Dec 20 12:50:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA14992 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:50:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.gbdata.com (dial77.phoenix.net [199.3.234.112]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14955 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.gbdata.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA10962; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:40:52 -0600 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199512202040.OAA10962@main.gbdata.com> Subject: Re: Handbook Stuff To: grog@lemis.de Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:40:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: peter@taronga.com, doc@freebsd.org Reply-To: gclarkii@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512200918.KAA14162@allegro.lemis.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Dec 20, 95 10:18:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > > Peter da Silva writes: > > > > Gary Clark II wrote: > > >Another NOTE: We may want to think about doing this for the sources also. > > >There are many files within the tree that say this coded was contributed > > >to UCB and name the author. Make the copyright FreeBSD Project, Inc. > > >and give a credit within the license to the person who developed it. > > > > Is that legal? > > > > I'm not trying to stir up trouble or nothing, but it seems a little on the > > shady side. Please feel free to correct me if I'm confused... > Ok, I see what the problem is...:) I was talking about NEW copyrights, not the original UCB stuff. As an example, all of the new handbook stuff that is written by jkh, john or myself, will be copyright FreeBSD, INC. > It's up to a lawyer to determine whether it's legal or not. I suspect > that it's legal if we want it to be. Also, the issue of copyright > doesn't mean that other people can't copy it: it means that the > copyright owner has the right to decide whether other people can copy > it. > > I think the basic intention of any copyright on the manual is that its > distribution shouldn't be restricted, and that the work of the > contributors should be acknowledged--very much the same as the > Berkeley copyright. If you (doc people in general, not Peter) want to > assign copyright to somebody to protect this right, and you're worried > about FreeBSD Inc., how about assigning a fallback copyright to UCB, > or just assign it to UCB in the first place, assuming they're > interested in helping? > > Greg > I'm not worried about FreeBSD Inc.. I'm happy with Jordan and David running the train. Gary Gary Clark II (N5VMF) From owner-freebsd-doc Wed Dec 20 22:41:52 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA17060 for doc-outgoing; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:41:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA17035 Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:41:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id HAA14715 ; Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:41:24 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id HAA25765 ; Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:41:23 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA13540; Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:52:18 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199512202252.XAA13540@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Changes to the handbook To: gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:52:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: gclarkii@freefall.freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199512201820.MAA10703@main.gbdata.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Dec 20, 95 12:20:55 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1449 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-doc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Gary Clark II said: > We could make the FAQ both a chapter in the handbook(not an appendix) and > stand alone document. That way it could be posted and gotten at by itself. If it can be done easily, why not. As it refer for some things to the handbook by way of links, it would be easier to print and distribute. I still think it's too big for the handbook... The handbook is what, 300 pages ? That would add at least 40 pages... Anyway, I have of course nothing against it. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #7: Mon Dec 18 00:50:47 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-doc Thu Dec 21 07:34:34 1995 Return-Path: owner-doc Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA12740 for doc-outgoing; Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (Fieber-John.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA12732 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:34:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA08513; Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:32:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 10:32:39 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu To: Ollivier Robert cc: gclarkii@freebsd.org, freebsd-doc@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Changes to the handbook In-Reply-To: <199512202252.XAA13540@keltia.freenix.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-doc@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > If it can be done easily, why not. As it refer for some things to the > handbook by way of links, it would be easier to print and distribute. It can be done easily, but separating it back out will require some adjustments to the cross referencing mechanism. Namely, internal references will have to become external (i.e. URL) references when the FAQ is generated as a stand-alone document. Actually, now that I think about it, the change to sgmlfmt should be trivial. > I still think it's too big for the handbook... The handbook is what, 300 > pages ? That would add at least 40 pages... Then again, I'd say the typical size for most software handbooks on the market here in the states is closer to 500 pages. -john == jfieber@indiana.edu =========================================== == http://fieber-john.campusview.indiana.edu/~jfieber ============