From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:05:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02162 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:05:21 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02156; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:05:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA25053; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:03:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199503190803.AAA25053@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), peter@bonkers.taronga.com, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Mar 1995 23:43:13 PST." <199503190743.XAA22721@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:03:29 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> >> organization could sell binary distributions of. Even though the >> >> GPL is restrictive, FreeBSD differs from NetBSD in distributing >> >> GPLd portions of the kernel. >> >> >Are they linked into the kernel on any of the kernels distributed from >> >Freefall? If they are, then that has the effect of putting the kernel >> >under GPL. You need to be *very* careful about this. >> >> "Only" the ahc driver in the GENERIC kernel. Only the firmware used by the ahc driver (a single generated .h file). >Oh shit, this means we should probably not ship the ahc linked into >the GENERIC kernel :-(. If it is going to be killed, we need to come up with an alternate method for folks with these cards to install. I sent a query about the copyright (again) to the author last week, but I haven't heard back yet. I haven't gotten a straight answer out of him yet. :-( > > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:05:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02170 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:05:34 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02164; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:05:30 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA22818; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:04:59 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503190804.AAA22818@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: NMI Error success story To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:04:58 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, core@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503190649.WAA22415@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 18, 95 10:49:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1491 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > But, I did notice that the static cache rams on the new motherboard were > > 15ns, and on my old (buggy) motherboard they were 25ns. Because I had > > nothing to lose and feeling like I couldn't make the problem any worse I > > swapped the cache chips on the motherboards. > > I will add that I did the same surgery on my machine, which worked fine > before and after, with the lefthand spin to it that it ran around 10% faster > afterwards because I could get the cache burst down to 3-1-1-1 instead of > 3-2-2-2. Humm.. 3+1+1+1 = 6, 3+2+2+2=9, should have been 30% faster if everything hit the cache, figure an actual cache hit rate of 80% and you should have seen a 24% performance increase by this. 1/25ns SRAM should give you 40Mhz operation, but you need setup and hold times + board delay which is atleast 5 ns, resuting in 1/30nS or 33Mhz, very very marginal. 1/20ns + 5 ns should give reliable 33Mhz operation. More than likely it was tag compare delay that caused the problem nate saw, and the ability of Poul to go to a 3-1-1-1 burst. Many motherboards use a 15nS cache tag SRAM and 20nS cache data rams. Many of the new P54C motherboards are specing 12nS or faster SRAMS if you want to run the 100Mhz CPU. [ASUS new triton based board uses 10nS Pipelined Burst SRAMS to achive a 2-1-1-1 cache burst cycle). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:07:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02190 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:07:05 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02184; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:07:04 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA22675; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:06:58 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503190806.AAA22675@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: NMI Error success story To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:06:58 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, core@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503190804.AAA22818@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 19, 95 00:04:58 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 419 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Humm.. 3+1+1+1 = 6, 3+2+2+2=9, should have been 30% faster if everything > hit the cache, figure an actual cache hit rate of 80% and you should have > seen a 24% performance increase by this. Well, 10% is what I saw on "make world"... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:07:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02198 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:07:46 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02192 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:07:43 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA22831; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:05:59 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503190805.AAA22831@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:05:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pst@Shockwave.COM In-Reply-To: <199503190651.WAA22434@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 18, 95 10:51:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 728 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Where are users supposed to get the correct information from? The C/H/S > > info printed by the driver is the _only_ info obtained in a reliable way > > (at least if you fix the info printing bug introduced in revision 1.31 > > of wd.c). The geometry guessed from the partition table is only > > Ahh, we misunderstand each other! > > I'm only talking about sd.c, not wd.c. > > For wd.c disks the information has a very real value, for scsi: absolutely > none. For scsi the only unreal value is sectors/track. All other values are as reported by the drive. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:09:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02242 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:09:47 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02236 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:09:46 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA22690; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:08:29 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503190808.AAA22690@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:08:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pst@Shockwave.COM In-Reply-To: <199503190805.AAA22831@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 19, 95 00:05:59 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 520 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > For wd.c disks the information has a very real value, for scsi: absolutely > > none. > > For scsi the only unreal value is sectors/track. All other values are > as reported by the drive. And what I keep telling you all: The drive reports bogus data... If people enter those values anywhere they're likely to toast their system... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:14:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02273 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:14:28 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02267; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:14:24 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA22889; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:12:57 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503190812.AAA22889@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: NMI Error success story To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:12:57 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, core@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503190728.RAA10360@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 19, 95 05:28:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1431 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> But, I did notice that the static cache rams on the new motherboard were > >> 15ns, and on my old (buggy) motherboard they were 25ns. Because I had > >> nothing to lose and feeling like I couldn't make the problem any worse I > >> swapped the cache chips on the motherboards. > > >I will add that I did the same surgery on my machine, which worked fine > >before and after, with the lefthand spin to it that it ran around 10% faster > >afterwards because I could get the cache burst down to 3-1-1-1 instead of > >3-2-2-2. > > Rod tells me it shouldn't work, but I've had good results from setting > the cache burst to 2-1-1-1 on systems with mediocrely rated cache RAMS > (only 20ns for the tag RAM if I remember right). Depends on clock frequency, and based on 33 Mhz: 1/33Mhz = 30nS, yes it should work, just barely with 20nS tag RAM if the total board delay, setup time, and hold times are <10nS. This also means you must be able to do the tag compare in <30nS, which is often the gating issue on witch of 3-x-x-x or 2-x-x-x it is. I didn't say it should'nt work, I said it was on the hairy ass edge of timing. You would probably find that it failed if you cut your power supply to 4.75V (spec margin) and raised the ambient temp to say about 50 degress C. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:20:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02333 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:20:16 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02327; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:20:11 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA22929; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:19:40 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503190819.AAA22929@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: NMI Error success story To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:19:40 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, core@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503190806.AAA22675@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 19, 95 00:06:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 746 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Humm.. 3+1+1+1 = 6, 3+2+2+2=9, should have been 30% faster if everything > > hit the cache, figure an actual cache hit rate of 80% and you should have > > seen a 24% performance increase by this. > > Well, 10% is what I saw on "make world"... We must be missing the cache a lot more than I figured on. Time for me to go stick some Pentium counter code in, wish that I had some way to easily watch the external cache hit rate... let me see, I need 2 >60Mhz counters, and the data books on the SIS 82C50X or Opti 597 chip sets. Wonder how many digits I need for make world :-) :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:41:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA00210 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 18 Mar 1995 21:50:21 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA00200 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 1995 21:50:16 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA22272; Sat, 18 Mar 1995 21:49:31 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503190549.VAA22272@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 21:49:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pst@Shockwave.COM In-Reply-To: <199503190524.PAA07244@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 19, 95 03:24:28 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 884 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >This happens because we print bogus information. > > This happens because fdisk/disklabel are confused. They have problems > finding the correct information and don't do any consistency checking. > An error transcribing non-bogus information would cause much the same > problem as bogus information. Bruce, if I can expect you to sit in the receiving end of all emails relating to this, then the printf can stay, otherwise I will use my release-engineer hat, and say: it must die. I'm willing to accept "die" to mean: only be printed when bootverbose is set. But in a normal boot I don't want to see it. The <1% of our users who care, can certainly be bothered to do a "boot -v" to see it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 00:48:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA02719 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:48:42 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA02708 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 00:48:33 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA12153; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:45:26 +1000 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:45:26 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503190845.SAA12153@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: phk@ref.tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, pst@Shockwave.COM Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Ahh, we misunderstand each other! >> >> I'm only talking about sd.c, not wd.c. >> >> For wd.c disks the information has a very real value, for scsi: absolutely >> none. >For scsi the only unreal value is sectors/track. All other values are >as reported by the drive. I think this is why the wd info is more valuable. The IDE drives that I'm familiar with (not many) report translated values in wdgetctlr(). For drives smaller than 504MB, it is possible for the translated values to be usable both in the partition table and for accessing the drive, so there is little possiblity of confusion. I think the translated values become unsuitable for accessing the drive above 504MB, so wd.c breaks. Some drives report more-physical values in a place that `struct wdparams' doesn't support. The driver doesn't really need to know about these - it can invent a suiatble geomtry. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 01:51:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA00814 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 01:51:15 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA00792 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 01:51:06 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27256; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:23:11 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id KAA15153; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:23:06 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA08138; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:10:40 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503190910.KAA08138@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Boot crash. To: Gieger@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:10:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <950318121449_53401019@aol.com> from "Gieger@aol.com" at Mar 18, 95 12:14:51 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 736 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gieger@aol.com wrote: > > ... It reboots & comes up with the BSD boot screen along with the "Boot:" > prompt. If I hit return, type '?', type '/kernal-c' > or anything it locks up. Normally there is a little twirling "|" symbol > but it just prints "|" and locks solid. My bios geometry matches BSD, I did > write the boot code. Looks like nothing from your root file system is being found. Either of the above commands is trying to read something from there (`?' attempts to read the directory, and the other commands want to read the kernel file). What's the geometry you are using? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 01:50:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA00633 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 01:50:06 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA00608 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 01:49:56 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27248; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:23:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id KAA15147 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:23:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA08025 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:56:57 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503190856.JAA08025@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: stale man pages To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:56:56 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 322 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I found that the following directories in our source tree do only consist of man pages, that are not even installed: usr.bin/uucp/uuq usr.sbin/quot Shouldn't they be removed? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 02:51:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA01545 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 02:51:19 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA01513 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 02:51:10 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28694; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:50:49 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id LAA15620; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:50:44 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA09664; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:21:37 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503191021.LAA09664@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Reference To: Gieger@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:21:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <950319011148_53933382@aol.com> from "Gieger@aol.com" at Mar 19, 95 01:11:50 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 515 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Gieger@aol.com wrote: > > Is there a online help or reference file for commands in > FreeBSD 2.0? A detailed help with small examples would > be great. OOOOOH NOOOO! Did you _ever_ look into some unix literature before???? The common answer to this is RTFM, but since you're not even able to *find* that f**** manual.... Try to start with the command ``man man''. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 03:03:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02090 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 03:03:47 -0800 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02084 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 03:03:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (amurai@localhost) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) id TAA17212; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:58:43 +0900 From: Atsushi MURAI Message-Id: <199503191058.TAA17212@specgw.spec.co.jp> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:58:42 +0900 (JST) Cc: pst@Shockwave.COM, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503181333.IAA02119@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Mar 18, 95 08:33:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1133 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please pardom me for interrupt to your discussin..But I missing prvious discussion due to dowing our mail server. > > bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 > > bt0: targ 1 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 > > bt0: targ 4 async > > bt0: targ 6 async > > (Aside: We could add callback to the host adapter to "display target > info" so that these could be displayedw with the probe messages, > though that is probably overkill) It's a common information for SCSI bus by each target and card. So I will recommend these information should be saved into common strucuture and and then "scbus" routine show with device identify later. But I prefer to see this information at boot time and by dmesg command because when I supporting a people, it's easy. > > bt0: Enabling Round robin scheme > > bt0 at 0x330 irq 11 drq 5 on isa Please keep them also with same reason. > > scbus0: (bt0:0:0): "QUANTUM PD1800S 3161" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 **1** > > Yes, I did do this on purpose. Thanks. Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai Email : amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 03:40:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA00273 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 03:40:15 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA00267 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 03:40:13 -0800 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA09421; Sun, 19 Mar 95 03:35:07 -0800 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0rqJEr-0005OqC; Sun, 19 Mar 95 12:33 MEZ Message-Id: To: nate%trout.sri.MT.net@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: Graphical interface to gdb? Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 11:33:40 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: >> I personally greatly prefer tgdb, but what the hey. > > Could you make your version of tgdb_wish and the other necessary files > available for others? I can't make it since BLT-1.3 doesn't exist > anywhere. it should already be in incoming on freefall under the name: tgdb_wish-freebsd_static.tar.gz Let me know if it isn't and I'll put it up again. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 05:35:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA06465 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 05:35:27 -0800 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA06459 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 05:35:24 -0800 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id IAA05350; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:35:15 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:35:15 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hasty@netcom.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@netcom.com Subject: Re: def'd vat_audio caused undef'd symbol In-Reply-To: <199503190225.SAA03187@netcom14.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 18 Mar 1995 hasty@netcom.com wrote: > > > > Trying to setup vat with a gus I defined: > > > vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text > > segment > > vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text > > Look in sys/i386/isa/sound/dmabuf.c, if DMAbuf_start_input is not there > then you don't have support for vat and if DMAbuf_start_input is > there just look around for #define which will allow the code to be > included. DMAbuf_start_input is present in dmabuf.c but I can't find a #define anywhere for it. Maybe someone will recognize this and the old define restored. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 06:03:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA07058 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:03:14 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA07052 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:03:11 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA10601 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:44:59 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA24404; 19 Mar 95 07:44:07 CST (Sun) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA24400; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:44:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199503191344.HAA24400@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: John Beukema Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Comparison of un*x's In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 10:46:28 +0800." X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:43:49 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Solaris (Seemingly the first choice of several members) If they eliminated Linux because of too frequent patches they ought to eliminate Solaris too. Sun has a habit of releasing beta quality software then releasing a flurry of patches to cover for it. AND they don't make sure that the patches are all safe, so you're supposed to figure out if you're covered by the patch then try a couple of different ones that cover the same general problem. I was visiting a company that has a LOT of suns (we just have a couple, one of which is supposed to get patched to resolve SCSI bus hangs except we can't get the straight word from Sun on the patch) and they had a white-board covered with patches they were considering. > SunOS (Does it even run on i386?) No. > SCO The ISP I use used to use SCO but SCO is just too much trouble with more than a handful of users, plus it's a pain to port stuff to (so is Solaris for that matter). They use BSDI now. I wouldn't consider anything but one of the *BSD*s and since BSDI quit making source availability a priority that leaves FreeBSD or NetBSD. Again, I wouldn't consider Solaris or SCO. They are too far from the mainstream of *net* software. Now, if you want to run a small business or otherwise need commercial productivity software I'd say SCO or Solaris would be your first choices, and for office or personal productivity you'd be well advised to go with NeXT. But for an ISP, your choices are basically: BSDI if you can fork out the $$$ for the source license. FreeBSD or NetBSD otherwise. ANd for this application they're pretty much equivalent. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 06:03:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA07074 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:03:52 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA07068; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:03:48 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA10651 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:57:16 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA24648; 19 Mar 95 07:56:28 CST (Sun) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA24644; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:56:27 -0600 Message-Id: <199503191356.HAA24644@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 00:03:29 PST." <199503190803.AAA25053@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:55:39 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Only the firmware used by the ahc driver (a single generated .h file). Which is enough according to the GPL. :-P How big is this firmware? Can it be poked into the boot in a separate operation? That would mean the kernel would have to use the BIOS to read it back, wouldn't it? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 06:07:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA07171 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:07:34 -0800 Received: from netcom15.netcom.com (hasty@netcom15.netcom.com [192.100.81.128]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA07165 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:07:33 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com Received: from localhost by netcom15.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id GAA13476; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:05:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199503191405.GAA13476@netcom15.netcom.com> To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: def'd vat_audio caused undef'd symbol In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 19 Mar 95 08:35:15 -0500. Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 06:05:08 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Sat, 18 Mar 1995 hasty@netcom.com wrote: > > > > > > Trying to setup vat with a gus I defined: > > > > > vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text > > > segment > > > vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text > > > > Look in sys/i386/isa/sound/dmabuf.c, if DMAbuf_start_input is not there > > then you don't have support for vat and if DMAbuf_start_input is > > there just look around for #define which will allow the code to be > > included. > DMAbuf_start_input is present in dmabuf.c but I can't find a #define > anywhere for it. In dmabuf.c, take out static : ------ static int DMAbuf_start_input(int dev) { ------ Not sure what is going on.... Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 06:49:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA08804 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:49:37 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA08798 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 06:49:34 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA12080 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:32:34 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA24758; 19 Mar 95 08:00:31 CST (Sun) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA24755; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:00:30 -0600 Message-Id: <199503191400.IAA24755@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 00:05:59 PST." <199503190805.AAA22831@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:00:28 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For scsi the only unreal value is sectors/track. All other values are > as reported by the drive. Since s/t can vary either the other two numbers are made up (and not real) or you have to make up a s/t value (and thus they're not useful). The only useful information the SCSI drive reports is the total number of blocks (unless it's a very old drive like mine that tells the absolute truth in all three categories, but is dinosaurs are in the minority). (boy, look at all the people on the CC line... snip snip) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 07:03:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA08923 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:03:25 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA08915; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:03:12 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA12088 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:32:55 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA24873; 19 Mar 95 08:03:06 CST (Sun) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA24867; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:03:05 -0600 Message-Id: <199503191403.IAA24867@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), nate@sneezy.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, core@FreeBSD.org, peter@bonkers.taronga.com Subject: Re: NMI Error success story In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 00:19:40 PST." <199503190819.AAA22929@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:02:42 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Humm.. 3+1+1+1 = 6, 3+2+2+2=9, should have been 30% faster if everything > > > hit the cache, figure an actual cache hit rate of 80% and you should have > > > seen a 24% performance increase by this. > > Well, 10% is what I saw on "make world"... > We must be missing the cache a lot more than I figured on. Um, getting a 10% improvement on "make world" which is dependent on so much more than CPU speed alone from a 24% improvement in CPU speed isn't such a small thing. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 07:20:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA09435 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:20:41 -0800 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09427 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:20:36 -0800 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id KAA00899; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:20:23 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:20:23 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hasty@netcom.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: def'd vat_audio caused undef'd symbol In-Reply-To: <199503191405.GAA13476@netcom15.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 Mar 1995 hasty@netcom.com wrote: > In dmabuf.c, take out static : > ------ > static int > DMAbuf_start_input(int dev) > { > ------ > Yes, this fixes the missing symbol. This problem remains trying to run vat: If I start vat it displays the control panel which appears to be functional to the extent the window objects respond to the mouse. Click on Menu and it opens the menu window. Click on loopback and it hangs. These messages are written to the log: Mar 19 10:01:23 w8hd kernel_latest: Sound: Audio queue4 corrupted for dev0 (17/16) Mar 19 10:01:23 w8hd kernel_latest: Mar 19 10:01:23 w8hd kernel_latest: Sound: Audio queue2 corrupted for dev0 (18/16) Mar 19 10:01:23 w8hd kernel_latest: Mar 19 10:01:23 w8hd kernel_latest: Sound: Audio queue2 corrupted for dev0 (19/16) Mar 19 10:01:23 w8hd kernel_latest: ... util its rebooted... Any help here is very greatly appreciated. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 07:53:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA10423 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:53:32 -0800 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA10417 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:53:27 -0800 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00845; Sun, 19 Mar 95 10:53:18 EST Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:53:16 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff To: John Beukema Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Comparison of un*x's In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 Mar 1995, John Beukema wrote: > Solaris (Seemingly the first choice of several members) I have read several magazine reviews about Solaris x86 because I, too, was considering switching from FreeBSD. All I can say is NO, NO, and NO. Solaris x86 was ported almost directly from the sun, with no consideration for the fact that it was no longer running on a sun. It may run on x86 hardware, but it likes to think it's still on a sun. > FreeBSD Honestly this would be your best choice, I believe. You can get almost any network utility to compile on FreeBSD. A testament to the stability of FreeBSD can be seen at freebsd.cdrom.com, which is a 90mhz pentium and supports 500 concurrent users. > SunOS (Does it even run on i386?) Nope. > BSDI This is not bad. > SCO ACK! SCO likes to take all standard unix utilities and prepend them with the word 'sco'. I'm surprised they don't have 'scols', 'scomkdir', etc. :) Not to mention it's slow. > NetBSD I have never run this, can't comment. > Any other suggestions. (Linux has been eliminated due to too frequent > patches.) That's silly, IMO. No one forces you to apply any of the patches. You could get a stable version and run that forever, never applying any patches. The only time patches apply is when you always want to be current. Linux has performed well as a WWW, news, and e-mail server for my internet provider. (The only reason they use linux over FreeBSD is because the software for their Annex terminal server flakes out on FreeBSD for some reason.) > It is likely I cannot prevail on FreeBSD at this time. What would the > *second choice* be, particularily in terms of compatibility with FreeBSD? > I could then use FreeBSD on one machine on the network and compare. BSDI. The BSDI people tend to set after having a solid, static OS. The FreeBSD team sets their goals a bit higher by also adding new features often. SMP (multi-processor) support is being added now, along with a host of other goodies that the BSDI people have not done yet. (At least I don't think they have.) If you can't run FreeBSD, however, BSDI would be your best second choice. > I appreciate the assistance. Sure. Hope it helps. > jbeukema Jeff -- Jeff Hoffman -- jeffh@cybernetics.net ------------------------------------- "A man facing the light looks not into sorrow, but to to the future...always." WWW: http://www.cybernetics.net/users/jeffh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PGP Public Key available on request. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:01:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA10817 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:01:41 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA10808 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:01:36 -0800 From: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id RAA00116 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:01:42 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15331; Sun, 19 Mar 95 17:01:30 +0100 Received: (card@localhost) by bbj.ibp.fr (8.6.9/bbj-1.0) id QAA00122 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:58:09 GMT Message-Id: <199503191658.QAA00122@bbj.ibp.fr> Subject: Filesystem clean flag To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:58:08 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2205 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am currently studying the filesystem kernel code and I think that the current clean flag implementation could be improved. Currently, the clean flag is set to 0 when a filesystem is mounted in read-write mode and set to 1 when the filesystem is unmounted. This way of doing things can be a problem in some cases: suppose that a system crashes (so the filesystems are marked as not clean), the system is rebooted in single user mode (so fsck is not run at boot), and then goes to multiuser mode. When the system is subsequently rebooted in a proper way, the clean flag is set to 1, and, voila, the filesystems are marked as clean for the next boot but they can contain errors. Correcting this problem is trivial: when a filesystem is mounted in read-write mode, store the value of the clean flag and restore this value in the superblock when the filesystem is unmounted. Also, I have compared the clean flag implementation with my own implementation in the Linux Ext2 filesystem and I found that FreeBSD does not allow the administrator to request periodical checks of the filesystems. In the Linux Ext2 fs, two fields are reserved in the superblock for this: - a mount counter is incremented each time the filesystem is mounted in read-write mode. When this counter is greater than a maximal mount count (also contained in the superblock and changeable with tunefs), fsck checks the filesystem regardless of the clean flag value. - a last check time and a check interval are also stored in the superblock. When fsck checks a filesystem, it stores the current time in the last check time. When the current time is greater than (last_check_time + check_interval), fsck checks the filesystem regardless of the clean value. The check interval can also be changed by using tunefs. Of course, both the mount counter and the check interval can be disabled to obtain the same behavior as the FreeBSD's current one. I think that it would be worth implementing these features in FreeBSD. I even think that I can come with a patch if people are interested but I'd like to have your opinion before starting working on it. Please, no ``BSD vs Linux'' or ``UFS vs Ext2fs'' war! :-) Thanks Remy From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:11:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA11751 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:11:38 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA11740; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:11:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Gieger@aol.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Reference In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 01:11:50 EST." <950319011148_53933382@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:11:32 -0800 Message-ID: <11739.795629492@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a online help or reference file for commands in > FreeBSD 2.0? A detailed help with small examples would > be great. At this point in time, the best you can hope for are really these three facilities: man - get information about a specific command apropos - part of the man package, it at least gives you some idea of where to look for a man page by keyword (try it). info - read the info docs provided by the GNU project for things like the C compiler, make, etc. Unfortunately, this facility was rather sparse until just a month or two back so using it under 2.0R won't be very rewarding! :-( Ultimately, there should be much better (and more obvious) on-line help than this, we just haven't gotten around to providing it yet! This is not to say we'll continue dropping this ball - I have Big Plans(tm) in this department. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:21:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA12427 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:21:12 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA12421 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:21:09 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA23731; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:21:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA02117; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:21:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199503191621.IAA02117@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 16:58:08 GMT." <199503191658.QAA00122@bbj.ibp.fr> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:20:55 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am currently studying the filesystem kernel code and I think that >the current clean flag implementation could be improved. Currently, the >clean flag is set to 0 when a filesystem is mounted in read-write mode and >set to 1 when the filesystem is unmounted. This way of doing things can be >a problem in some cases: suppose that a system crashes (so the filesystems >are marked as not clean), the system is rebooted in single user mode (so >fsck is not run at boot), and then goes to multiuser mode. When the system >is subsequently rebooted in a proper way, the clean flag is set to 1, and, >voila, the filesystems are marked as clean for the next boot but they can >contain errors. The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. > Correcting this problem is trivial: when a filesystem is mounted in >read-write mode, store the value of the clean flag and restore this value in >the superblock when the filesystem is unmounted. See above. > Also, I have compared the clean flag implementation with my own >implementation in the Linux Ext2 filesystem and I found that FreeBSD does >not allow the administrator to request periodical checks of the filesystems. This is by design. Nothing stops you from booting the machine single user and running fsck. > Of course, both the mount counter and the check interval can be >disabled to obtain the same behavior as the FreeBSD's current one. It wasn't obvious to me how to do this in the current structure of things without a kludge, so I decided that the feature wasn't important enough to bother. > I think that it would be worth implementing these features in FreeBSD. >I even think that I can come with a patch if people are interested but I'd like >to have your opinion before starting working on it. If the change is clean, I'd be happy to commit it; I'm really not interested in kludges in this area, however. A clean way to do this wasn't obvious to me at the time (it would have required changes to the superblock definition, for instance). -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:33:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13021 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:33:00 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA13015 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:32:56 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA24556 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:23:13 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 19 Mar 95 19:23:12 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA01057; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:17:42 +0300 To: FreeBSD hackers , Joerg Wunsch References: <199503190856.JAA08025@uriah.heep.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <199503190856.JAA08025@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from J Wunsch at Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:56:56 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:17:42 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: stale man pages Lines: 14 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 543 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199503190856.JAA08025@uriah.heep.sax.de> J Wunsch writes: >I found that the following directories in our source tree do only >consist of man pages, that are not even installed: > usr.bin/uucp/uuq Whole usr.bin/uucp should be removed. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:33:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13066 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:33:32 -0800 Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA13060; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:33:30 -0800 Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.11/1.63) id RAA18138; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:33:26 +0100 From: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199503191633.RAA18138@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Subject: restore times veryyyy long To: frebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:33:25 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 463 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We did a restore of a 1.2 gig partition. The restore was done from a dat tape to a completely empty partition. It took 10(!) hours. Can anybody explain why this should take so long? This is the tape-unit: st0(ncr0:4:0): 200ns (5 Mb/sec) offset 8. st0: density code 0x13, variable blocks, write-enabled pci0:13: vendor=0x1095, device=0x640, class=storage [not supported] I suspect blocksizes but dont know where to set this. (not with mt so it seems). -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:35:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13126 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:35:19 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA13119; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:35:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), nate@sneezy.sri.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, core@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NMI Error success story In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 00:06:58 PST." <199503190806.AAA22675@ref.tfs.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:35:17 -0800 Message-ID: <13118.795630917@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Humm.. 3+1+1+1 = 6, 3+2+2+2=9, should have been 30% faster if everything > > hit the cache, figure an actual cache hit rate of 80% and you should have > > seen a 24% performance increase by this. > > Well, 10% is what I saw on "make world"... Proving only that a make world isn't simply CPU/memory bound.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:47:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13537 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:47:25 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA13529; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:47:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: ache@astral.msk.su (Andrey A. Chernov Black Mage), hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/man/catman catman.perl In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 10:44:50 +0100." <199503190945.KAA08424@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: <13528.795631643@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, just looking at the commented-out example in /usr/src/etc/weekly, > i admit that i messed up the uid catman is being run there. I'm > going to fix this. Actually, while you're in there.. :-) I'd like to make a contraversal suggestion: I would like to see etc/{daily, weekly, monthly} do NOTHING in the future. Nada, nichts, bupkis, zilco! Just a bunch of commended shell functions that you can MODIFY the thing to call if you wish (just jump down the the bottom and say something like): # yeah, I want security check_security # yeah, I want a permissions scan check_permissions # rotate my log files rotate_logs In fact, this could easily be done programmatically by a dialog script asking you more intelligent questions. For that matter, all these clever functions can live outside of weekly/daily/monthly completely anyway! They should never have been stuck in these files in the first place. Make one or more nice repositories of handy shell functions and just source them into each file requiring them. Then the generic functions can at least be administered through your fancy dialog script. Hmmmm. Ok, I'll go do all of this myself.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 08:57:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13671 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:57:09 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA13664; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:57:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 16:58:08 GMT." <199503191658.QAA00122@bbj.ibp.fr> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:57:07 -0800 Message-ID: <13663.795632227@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Correcting this problem is trivial: when a filesystem is mounted in > read-write mode, store the value of the clean flag and restore this value in > the superblock when the filesystem is unmounted. This sounds interesting. > Also, I have compared the clean flag implementation with my own > implementation in the Linux Ext2 filesystem and I found that FreeBSD does > not allow the administrator to request periodical checks of the filesystems. I don't see how this buys us much, unless your ext2fs code works so differently from FFS that in-situ filesystem checks yield anything but bogus "corruption" errors that are really just the result of reading filesystem operations in mid-progress. Do you have a flag that locks the filesystem out for write access while you're checking it (and syncs it first, of course)? > Please, no ``BSD vs Linux'' or ``UFS vs Ext2fs'' war! :-) Naw, I'm more inclined to ask about Ext2FS on FreeBSD. How is that little project coming? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 09:27:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA14154 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:27:59 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14142 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:27:44 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA02121; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 01:20:43 GMT Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 01:20:41 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag In-Reply-To: <199503191658.QAA00122@bbj.ibp.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 Mar 1995 Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr wrote: > > I am currently studying the filesystem kernel code and I think that > the current clean flag implementation could be improved. Currently, the > clean flag is set to 0 when a filesystem is mounted in read-write mode and > set to 1 when the filesystem is unmounted. This way of doing things can be > a problem in some cases: suppose that a system crashes (so the filesystems > are marked as not clean), the system is rebooted in single user mode (so > fsck is not run at boot), and then goes to multiuser mode. When the system > is subsequently rebooted in a proper way, the clean flag is set to 1, and, > voila, the filesystems are marked as clean for the next boot but they can > contain errors. I ran into this a little while ago when the power here cut out for about five minutes (in the middle of a "tar -xvf" too, argh!). I brought it back up in single-user mode, but accidentally quit the shell before I could run a manual fsck. Of course, it skipped the filesystem checks and went on to boot into X, etc., etc. I shut the system down immediately, unmounted the filesystems and ran fsck. Clean flag was set, no errors were found. Hmmm. Does fsck really trust that clean flag? I hope not. Anyhow, I haven't found any evidence of filesystem corruption yet in the one week that passed since the power outage (knock on wood). -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 09:48:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA14568 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:48:43 -0800 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com (mail02.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.66]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14562; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:48:42 -0800 From: Gieger@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA102135289; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:48:09 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:48:09 -0500 Message-Id: <950319124807_54162122@aol.com> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Reference Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The problem I had with the boot crash is ok now. It was the controller card! (EIDE2300+ by promise). My other controller works fine with BSD. I think that BSD doesn't like the Extended BIOS in the EIDE. Thanks for all your help about reference! Later .... Dave From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 09:53:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA14652 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:53:01 -0800 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14646 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:53:00 -0800 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA05947 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:54:35 -0500 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199503191754.MAA05947@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: Comparison of un*x's (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:54:34 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2205 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Solaris x86 (Seemingly the first choice of several members) > Peter is right. Patches patches patches patches patches patches patches. I converted our Solaris x86's to FreeBSD late last year. FreeBSD has been more stable, and more fun. I don't believe Sun is really serious about the x86 port. Sun seems to me to have caught a late case of Digital-itis :-) > > SCO Worse than Solaris. You don't get patches. They are even pre SYSV.4! > Linux has performed well as a WWW, news, and e-mail server for > my internet provider. (The only reason they use linux over FreeBSD is > because the software for their Annex terminal server flakes out on > FreeBSD for some reason.) > We were unable to get Linux to be stable under load. I made the Annex security server run under FreeBSD without trouble. I am using the X8.0.10 release code. I've modified it for dynamic IP assignment to PPP/SLIP incoming. We use it heavily. In the end, having used so many flavors, I really believe that you can make things work. The difference is how much aggravation and time you want to put into it. When you don't have sources for reference, the time you spend trying to do something new is probably ten times. Especially when the expensive documentation is weak, incomplete, and your manager didn't buy it in the first place :-). Call support and there is a guy on the line even greener than you are, oh and I forgot to mention that your manager didn't buy telepone support in the first place :-) When you use an operating system that has a huge number of inter-twined patches this increases the amount of time you have to fool with it. If you are going to be a de-facto beta site you *MUST* have sources. If you are using software developed for *BSD* then you will spend extra time making the BSD stuff run under the SYSV environment. Hurt me, beat me, make me drive 55, SYSV is history dot text. Finally you want to use something which is extensible for the next 4-5 years. You want the capability for a 64 bit file system. You want the capability for utilizing a cluster of pentiums to serve your users instead of a single expensive RISC box. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 09:58:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA14739 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:58:17 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14733 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:58:15 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA00648; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:55:05 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199503191755.MAA00648@hda.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:55:05 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199503191400.IAA24755@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 19, 95 08:00:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1433 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter da Silva writes: > > > For scsi the only unreal value is sectors/track. All other values are > > as reported by the drive. > > Since s/t can vary either the other two numbers are made up (and not real) or > you have to make up a s/t value (and thus they're not useful). > > The only useful information the SCSI drive reports is the total number of > blocks (unless it's a very old drive like mine that tells the absolute truth > in all three categories, but is dinosaurs are in the minority). I agree. Even my token dinosaur drive uses ZBR. I haven't checked my 20MB Seagate drive lately. I'll remove the Cyl/Head/Sectors except during the verbose boot. That will also let the disk probe fit on a single line, it will soon look something like: > (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors. And with verboseboot it can look like: > (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors > sd2(aha0:3:0): with 2179 cylinders, 21 heads, and 87 sectors/track. Not that it matters, but all the info (including sectors/track) is usually from the drive, but the drive makes it up. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 09:59:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA14789 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:59:19 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14781 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 09:59:10 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA02194; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 01:59:35 GMT Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 01:59:35 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/man/catman catman.perl In-Reply-To: <13528.795631643@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 19 Mar 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > # yeah, I want security > check_security I "stole" the /etc/security script from a BSD/OS 2.0 site and replaced the default FreeBSD one since it seems to do a lot more thorough job. I didn't see any obvious copyright notices in it, so would it be okay to distribute it with FreeBSD? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 10:09:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA14980 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:09:28 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14974 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:09:27 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA24082; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:09:20 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503191809.KAA24082@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:09:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503191755.MAA00648@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Mar 19, 95 12:55:05 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1058 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'll remove the Cyl/Head/Sectors except during the verbose boot. > That will also let the disk probe fit on a single line, it will > soon look something like: > > > (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors. > > And with verboseboot it can look like: > > > (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors > > sd2(aha0:3:0): with 2179 cylinders, 21 heads, and 87 sectors/track. > > Not that it matters, but all the info (including sectors/track) > is usually from the drive, but the drive makes it up. Thanks! This is exactly what I want. Everybody else: Feel free to print any information which can be useful in some marginal case when bootverbose is set. Use "boot: /kernel -v" to see it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 10:29:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15444 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:29:09 -0800 Received: from shell1.best.com (shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15438 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:29:08 -0800 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA02798; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:28:37 -0800 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA13613; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:27:19 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:27:19 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199503191827.KAA13613@geli.clusternet> To: dufault@hda.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: SMP work Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |From: "Rodney W. Grimes" |Subject: Re: SMP work |To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) |Date: Sat, 18 Mar 1995 14:06:04 -0800 (PST) |Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com | |> |> Rodney W. Grimes writes: |> > |> > [CC: trimmed] |> > ... | |> (Intel licenced Alliant's Concurrency Control Unit for future |> generations of the i860 - yeah, right. Are they continuing that |> with their "merchant" MP?) Are you referring to the unisys project? My understanding was that was a pentium project, not i860. | |I have no idea what they did with the i860 and Alliants stuff, so |I can not say if they are continuing that. Somehow I doubt it |very much since the iX60 group is over in the SuperComputer division, |which is more like a seperate company. | Intel SSD sells "MP" nodes with 2 i860s, and by all accounts it works fine under OS1/AD. But some codes I've benchmarked in support of a proposal show that 2 P590 cpus (running FreeBSD :) are roughly equal to 8 MP nodes. If you think about the economics and price/performance a little bit, one starts to be a wee bit astounded. (There's a lot more to it, but the upshot is that these are production USAF codes that run on Paragons daily). Anyway, I'm real interested in the dual cpu stuff, it would be a pretty neat thing to have, though we'd have to see whether it could be made efficient enough to make sense. Is there not much interest in a simple master/slave kernel with dual run queues.? That would work very well for parallel numerical algorithms, and I believe it's the way the Paragon is run. The book by Schimmel makes it look not all that hard, easy to say from the bleachers, I guess. Russell |-- |Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com |Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD | | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 10:43:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15616 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:43:47 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15609 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:43:46 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA24185; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:43:29 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503191843.KAA24185@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SMP work To: rcarter@geli.com (Russell L. Carter) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:43:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: dufault@hda.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503191827.KAA13613@geli.clusternet> from "Russell L. Carter" at Mar 19, 95 10:27:19 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 660 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > efficient enough to make sense. Is there not much interest in a simple > master/slave kernel with dual run queues.? That would > work very well for parallel numerical algorithms, and I believe it's > the way the Paragon is run. The book by Schimmel makes it look not all > that hard, easy to say from the bleachers, I guess. > I think it would be a logical step to make a master/slave version first. If for nothing else, it is a good place to start the SMP work from... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 10:53:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15725 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:53:30 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15717 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:53:21 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06263; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:53:12 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id TAA18184 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:52:27 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA14232 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:23:30 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503191823.TAA14232@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: stale man pages To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:23:29 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Mar 19, 95 05:17:42 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 470 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage wrote: > > >I found that the following directories in our source tree do only > >consist of man pages, that are not even installed: > > > usr.bin/uucp/uuq > > Whole usr.bin/uucp should be removed. This is identical to my original question, since usr.bin/uucp consists solely of uuq/uuq.1. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 10:53:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15738 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:53:36 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15726 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 10:53:31 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06272; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:53:22 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id TAA18190 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:52:41 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA14270 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:36:49 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503191836.TAA14270@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/man/catman catman.perl To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:36:49 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <13528.795631643@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 19, 95 08:47:23 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1259 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I would like to see etc/{daily, weekly, monthly} do NOTHING in the future. > > Nada, nichts, bupkis, zilco! nic. (with a hachek above the `c' -- it's czech :) I'm not sure if i like your idea entirely. Coming from a system where everything and all has been done with different entries in root's crontab, i like the /etc/{dai,week,month}ly approach much more. I agree with you that the functionality itself might be moved outside the scripts, so it's easier to move it around (e.g. between daily and weekly). We should make it into another subdir of /etc (what about /etc/admin?), and all the {dai,week,month}ly scripts set their path to include this subdir at the beginning, so the scripts are callable commands. No, don't make them shell functions, separate commands have the advantage to leave the choice of the programming language to the implementor, and it's an open secret that Perl's the language of choice for many administrative problems. Our fork()/execve() overhead is (thanks to the revamped VM system) minimal enough to not even notice the additional processes. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 11:10:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16482 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:10:42 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16474 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:10:39 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA24321; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:10:06 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503191910.LAA24321@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:10:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503191755.MAA00648@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Mar 19, 95 12:55:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1985 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Peter da Silva writes: > > > > > For scsi the only unreal value is sectors/track. All other values are > > > as reported by the drive. > > > > Since s/t can vary either the other two numbers are made up (and not real) or > > you have to make up a s/t value (and thus they're not useful). > > > > The only useful information the SCSI drive reports is the total number of > > blocks (unless it's a very old drive like mine that tells the absolute truth > > in all three categories, but is dinosaurs are in the minority). > > I agree. Even my token dinosaur drive uses ZBR. I haven't checked > my 20MB Seagate drive lately. > > I'll remove the Cyl/Head/Sectors except during the verbose boot. > That will also let the disk probe fit on a single line, it will > soon look something like: > > > (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors. Please make that: sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 sectors of 512 bytes It reads much easier, and drop the trailing period please, probe messages have under BSD never had them that I can see. [There are a few other places these need removed] > And with verboseboot it can look like: > > > (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors Hey, what happened to the period? :-) :-) > > sd2(aha0:3:0): with 2179 cylinders, 21 heads, and 87 sectors/track. Drop the period. > Not that it matters, but all the info (including sectors/track) > is usually from the drive, but the drive makes it up. What??? I can't find a scsi mode sense that will give me sectors/track no place in the *standard*. I can find stuff in the vendor uniq to get zones and sizes of zones, but that is about it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 11:13:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16566 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:13:16 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16557 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:13:11 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA24337; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:12:36 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503191912.LAA24337@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/man/catman catman.perl To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:12:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Mar 20, 95 01:59:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 760 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Sun, 19 Mar 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > # yeah, I want security > > check_security > > I "stole" the /etc/security script from a BSD/OS 2.0 site and > replaced the default FreeBSD one since it seems to do a lot more > thorough job. I didn't see any obvious copyright notices in it, so > would it be okay to distribute it with FreeBSD? No copyright on a file is a bad thing, though I don't know how valid a copyright on a shell script is. Best beat is to ask BSDI if we can have this file. You might also look the the BSD 4.4 sources and see if that is what BSDI is using now. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 11:49:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA19571 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:49:58 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19565 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:49:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA26851; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:49:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199503191949.LAA26851@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Rave rave rave In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Mar 1995 18:03:50 PST." <199503190203.SAA22253@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 11:49:42 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >[cc: trimmed] >... > >> The Windows orientation of sales, and other non-technical "decision >> makers" involved with computers, is our biggest challenge in >> furthering FreeBSD in industry. I have clients who will have >> burning bamboo splints shoved under their fingernails if Chairman >> Bill says they should so that they won't miss the second coming of >> Microsoft. >> >> I've had to "work" with Windows for a few months. There are many >> young engineers (yes, you kids out there) who think it is NORMAL >> to have to power cycle your computer three times a day. When in >> desperation I moved some tools to an underutilized Sun system in >> order to get some work done, and promptly started getting core >> dumps, one of the kids said, in all honesty, "See? You have the >> same kind of problem on Unix". I just stared at him. What else >> could I do? That Sun had 62 days uptime, and he STILL won't grant >> me that the core dump (and then debug) is better than the power >> cycle. > >Better demo... have something compileing in one window, something >your debugging in gdb in another, and then produce that core dump. > >Now ask this Windoze weenie what would happen to him if he even >attempted to do that under Windoze... that usually sinks the point >home real quick! Have the Windoze 95 weenie open up DOS debug have him assemble a small program that disables interrupts and goes into a tight loop! > >> I'll retitle this "Rave rave rave" and I apologize to the list in >> advance. > >:-). > > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 12:12:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20219 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:12:35 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA20210; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:12:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/man/catman catman.perl In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 19:36:49 +0100." <199503191836.TAA14270@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:12:33 -0800 Message-ID: <20209.795643953@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure if i like your idea entirely. Coming from a system where > everything and all has been done with different entries in root's > crontab, i like the /etc/{dai,week,month}ly approach much more. I Ah, you perhaps misunderstand me. I didn't say that /etc/{daily,weekly,monthly} should go AWAY, simply not _do_ anything by default! Consider, many many many of the system lossages we've encountered have come as a result of a misconfigured or overly aggressive _default_ daily/weekly/monthly file - the principle of least surprise being violated rather extremely here! When I first install a FreeBSD system, I don't want that sucker going behind my back and doing _anything_ by default until/unless I so chose it! They way it is now, you install the box and then the next day you get this mail out of the blue saying that your system has done all sorts of strange and confusing things to itself over the night! If I were a new new system administrator, I'd be scared and annoyed! What did these strange FreeBSD folks set my system up to do by default? Where do they explain it to me? Ack! So I think the scripts should do nothing by default. No mail, no security checks, zilch. If I want to turn this stuff _on_, of course, then I'm also free to do so. As I suggested before, this could be (and will be) front-ended so that the novice system adminstrator is encouraged to add a few checks like this, but at least they'll KNOW that they set it up this way. And yes, I agree that the commands should be individual files so that the implementation is fairly open. We need to establish an API, however, so that the overall framework utility for all of this and the individual tools can communicate somehow! I would assume that a certain number of special environment variables will show themselves to be necessities as we dive in and start writing a more comprehensive system. If perl weren't already so popular, I'd be making a case for a tcl daemon that you could feed scripts to in order to check your system security and/or report information back to a central administrative workstation! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 12:21:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20754 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:21:08 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA20740 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:20:56 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07636; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:20:46 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id VAA18751; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:20:42 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA15103; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:05:07 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503192005.VAA15103@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:05:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503191621.IAA02117@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 19, 95 08:20:55 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 524 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > > The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. But then, there should also be a way to get around this. The super user is assumed to know what he's doing -- and be it for the only reason to save just one [apparently good] file out of a totally damaged disk before newfs'ing it. Unfortunatley, -f is already used in mount(8). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 12:25:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA21743 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:25:38 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21731 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:25:36 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA24478; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:24:56 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503192024.MAA24478@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:24:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503192005.VAA15103@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 19, 95 09:05:06 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 581 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As David Greenman wrote: > > > > The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. > > But then, there should also be a way to get around this. The super > user is assumed to know what he's doing -- and be it for the only > reason to save just one [apparently good] file out of a totally > damaged disk before newfs'ing it. Why would he need to mount it writeable for that ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 12:35:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA22855 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:35:45 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA22845 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:35:43 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id PAA05194; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 15:32:23 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199503192032.PAA05194@hda.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 15:32:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503191910.LAA24321@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 19, 95 11:10:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1620 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors. > > Please make that: > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 sectors of 512 bytes > > It reads much easier, and drop the trailing period please, probe messages > have under BSD never had them that I can see. [There are a few other > places these need removed] I shall do so. I guess the period should be removed; "this sentence no verb". > > > And with verboseboot it can look like: > > > > > (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > > > sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors > Hey, what happened to the period? :-) :-) You found it - it went to the next line. > > > > sd2(aha0:3:0): with 2179 cylinders, 21 heads, and 87 sectors/track. > Drop the period. > > > Not that it matters, but all the info (including sectors/track) > > is usually from the drive, but the drive makes it up. > > What??? I can't find a scsi mode sense that will give me sectors/track > no place in the *standard*. I can find stuff in the vendor uniq to > get zones and sizes of zones, but that is about it. (You can also use READ CAPACITY to get the zones using a PMI bit of one and I suppose that "notch page" page works for some drives. But who cares? Actually, some multi media and "real time to disk" types probably care) You're right, it is the flexible disk page that has sector/track. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 12:49:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA23673 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:49:20 -0800 Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA23660 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:49:19 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com Received: from localhost by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id MAA27265; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:47:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199503192047.MAA27265@netcom14.netcom.com> To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: def'd vat_audio caused undef'd symbol In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 19 Mar 95 10:20:23 -0500. Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 12:47:53 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Sun, 19 Mar 1995 hasty@netcom.com wrote: > > In dmabuf.c, take out static : > > ------ > > static int > > DMAbuf_start_input(int dev) > > { > > ------ > > > Yes, this fixes the missing symbol. > This problem remains trying to run vat: > If I start vat it displays the control panel which appears to be functional > to the extent the window objects respond to the mouse. Now what others including myself have done to get vat going is to install the old sound driver. The sys-current's sound driver will be probably be fixed in the near future as I can see there is quit a bit of activity on the sound drivers. At the very least sound driver v.30 will be release. At any rate, the old sound driver modified to work with FreeBSD is in: ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty/sys-vat.tar.gz Save the files that sys-vat.tar uses. To the best of my knowledge only one person has not been able to get the old sound driver to work with the gus... Included is a summary on how to get vat working on FreeBSD-2.0: I hope that this really fixes your problem.... Amancio Article 158 of comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc: Xref: netcom.com comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:158 Path: netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!swrinde!pipex!warwick!news.dcs.warwick.ac.uk!str-ccsun!strath-cs!nntp0.brunel.ac.uk!not-for-mail From: Nik.Clayton@brunel.ac.uk (Nik Clayton) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Vat on FreeBSD 2.0 [Summary] Date: 11 Mar 1995 19:49:25 -0000 Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK Lines: 261 Message-ID: <3jsus5$2qf@beable.brunel.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: beable.brunel.ac.uk X-Submissions-To: ahbou-sub@acpub.duke.edu for alt.humor.best-of-usenet X-URL: http://http2.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~ccusnjc/ $Id: vat-on-FreeBSD,v 1.1 1995/03/11 19:42:56 nik Exp $ $Log: vat-on-FreeBSD,v $ # Revision 1.1 1995/03/11 19:42:56 nik # Initial revision # Introduction I have been attempting to run the multicast program 'vat' on FreeBSD 2.0 for some time. During this time I have posted several messages to Usenet asking for information. Response has been patchy, but I have had many messages essentially saying "Me too. Can you pass on any information you have?" I've finally managed to get it working, and this document explains what I did to do this. I haven't been able to find any of this information written down anywhere else. Hopefully some of you will find it useful. Acknowledgements I am indebted to Amancio Hasty (hasty@netcom.com) for his advice and source code. Also (in no particular order) Gareth Stoney for the sound card, Janet, Pat and Hadi at Brunel Computer Centre for their patience, TriGem Computers UK Ltd. for the loan of the computer, and the Executive of B-1000 Brunel Radio for putting up with me for the past seven or so weeks, Oh, and Jordan Hubbard of the FreeBSD team for explaining that FreeBSD can kernel panic on 486/DX4s, but works fine on everything else. If I've missed anyone from this list, apologies. It wasn't intentional. Equipment and configuration What follows runs successfully on an i486 DX/66, w/ 16Mb RAM and a 1Gb EIDE HD. In addition, I'm using a WD8013 net card, PCI graphics system and a Gravis Ultrasound rev 2.2 with cheap speakers and microphone. I understand that 'vat' has also been tested on a GUS rev 3.6., and is believed to work on PAS16 cards. I have no direct experience of this however. If the instructions below don't work you then there's not a lot I can do about it. In particular, I have no clue about configuring BSD for a PAS16. I also don't know if this will work with a GUS MAX. I've also assumed that your local Computer Center/service provider has some sort of multicast routing software working and is putting multicast packets across whichever subnet you are located on. Without this, multicasting is not going to work. Software FreeBSD 2.0-RELEASE as the operating system. Being in the UK I got it from unix.hensa.ac.uk, but any SunSite mirror or Walnut Creek mirror should have it. The main FAQ lists FTP sites for FreeBSD. This is not an installation document for FreeBSD, there are many fine FAQs which make this task relatively simple. XFree86-3.1 - The X system for FreeBSD. Both 'sd' and 'vat' are X programs. At a minimum, the "kerndist" source code distribution, which allows you to compile a new kernel. If you want it, get the entire "srcdist" as well, although it's not mandatory. sd - Session directory. This shows existing MBONE sessions and allows you to create your own. Get this from ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/conferencing/sd/i386-sd.tar.Z or archie search for a site closer to you that has it. vat - Visual Audio Tool. The bit that actually records and replays the sound over the net. I got my copy from ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/conferencing/vat/i386-vat.tar.Z tcl7.3 - The interfaces to 'sd' and 'vat' can be reconfigured with Tcl/Tk. While not essential, you might want to acquire this. It is available as a FreeBSD 'package' from anywhere that archives FreeBSD packages. Installation - First install FreeBSD and X and confirm that they work. Use the GENERIC kernel. A tip when installing X. If you are using a serial mouse, use /dev/cua00 for COM1:, and /dev/cua01 for COM2: (you might need to create these with the /dev/MAKEDEV script). - Now, you have to compile a new kernel with support for the Gravis Ultrasound (GUS) and 'vat'. To do this you are going to need some source code patches. I've placed these patches in ftp://ftp.brunel.ac.uk/studentsoft/sys-vat.tar.gz Acquire the file, uncompress it, and put it somewhere handy. I used /usr/incoming. Note that these are not 'patches' in the true sense of the word. They actually directly replace some files. This means that they are only guaranteed to work on FreeBSD 2.0. Not -SNAP, not -current, just plain 2.0. They might of course, but I can't guarantee it. Now, do this, % su [root password] # cd /usr/src # tar xvf /usr/incoming/sys-vat.tar [This replaces some files in /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/sound for vat] # cd sys/i386/conf [This is where kernel configuration files are stored] # cp GENERIC name [where 'name' is the name you want for your kernel. In what follows, "name" means whatever name you used for your kernel. I used "B1000"] You now have to edit the file 'name'. At the very least, make sure that the following two lines are present somewhere, device snd4 at isa? port 0x220 irq 15 drq 6 vector gusintr pseudo-device vat_audio The first of these configures a GUS on port 0x220 using irq 15. If you use different ports or irqs then use these instead. The second prepares the kernel for vat. You will also need to make sure you don't delete the options MROUTING line. If you get stuck, make a copy of the file 'LINT' and work from that rather than 'GENERIC'. This contains just about every configuration option there is. Just comment out the ones that don't apply to you. Now, go and look at the file "/usr/src/sys/i386/isa/sound/sound_config.h." Look for lines that start "#define GUS_". These set the default GUS_BASE, GUS_IRQ and so on. On my machine, sound_config.h contains (amongst other things) #define GUS_BASE 0x220 #define GUS_IRQ 15 #define GUS_MIDI_IRQ GUS_IRQ #define GUS_DMA 6 (in the real thing, these are wrapped in #ifndef...#endif pairs). I'm not sure if this step is absolutely required, but it doesn't hurt to make sure that these values are the same as the ones you used in the "device" line in the kernel. When you have a kernel config file you're happy with, # /usr/sbin/config name and then # cd ../../compile/name # make depend # make Tip: The first time I compiled a kernel it complained about libkern.a. You might need to do # rm /usr/src/sys/libkern/libkern.a to have the kernel library rebuilt before you issue the 'make depend' line above. - After anywhere between 15 minutes (on a 486DX 66) and 1hr (on a 486SX 25) the make should finish. You will find a file called 'kernel' in the current directory. This is the new kernel file. To use it, do the following, # mv /kernel /kernel.generic # cp kernel /kernel.gus.vat # cd / # ln kernel.gus.vat kernel Now reboot the machine. - With a bit of luck, your machine will reboot correctly. You should see a message at bootup that looks like this: snd4 at 0x220 irq 15 drq 6 on isa snd4: MIDI: Successfully attached ProAudioSpectrum MV101 If you do, then your GUS has been recognised. If you don't, something's gone wrong. Unfortunately, I don't know what. - At this point, it's time to make the device files that make all this possible. Once again, login and then # su [root password] # cd /dev # ./MAKEDEV snd4 # ./MAKEDEV vat # mv /dev/vatio /dev/audio This last line in particular is quite important, and not doing it caused me no end of hassle. Apparently, vat on FreeBSD doesn't use the /dev/vatio device, it uses /dev/audio. So we copy it onto /dev/audio to get everything working. - OK, assuming everything has gone OK by now, start up X (startx). You might want to change to a regular userid before doing that. - Take the tar files containing sd and vat and uncompress them somewhere on your path. I put them in a users bin/ directory whilst testing, and did % setenv PATH ~/bin:$PATH Make sure that the "sd" and "vat" executables are in the path. You might also need to "rehash" to make sure the shell's path hash table is up to date after doing this. - And now for the moment of truth. % sd Should pop up an sd window. From this, click the "new" button to create a new channel. Choose a name and description, and make sure it's site local. After you've done this and hit "create", vat should pop up. At this point, make sure your speakers and microphone are plugged on. Click on the microphone icon (to that it is "regular colour", not "inverted") and say something. You should see level bars going up and down next to the mic slider. If you don't, then again, something has gone wrong. Make sure all the sound stuff is plugged in the right way around. If everything's worked correctly, go and find someone else who can listen to you to make sure send and receive works OK. But it should. Hopefully. And that's it. Once again, this document is basically a list of everything I've had to do to get multicasting w/ vat working on FreeBSD. Your mileage may vary. I'm releasing this in the hope that it saves someone all the hair pulling I've gone through to get this working. If it does, great, if it doesn't, sorry. If anyone has got vat working on other equipment, why not e-mail me with what you did, and I'll add it in. Maybe this could become a complete "Multicasting on FreeBSD FAQ". Eventually, I will ensure that this document and *all* the software mentioned in it are available for FTP from some site. I'll post when this happens. Nik Clayton (Nik.Clayton@brunel.ac.uk) -- =-[Opinion, n: See the above text for an example]=-=[Kibo #: e]-[RYRYRY]=-= =-[The Silly Sod Society: To perfect and to swerve]=-[beable]-=[TP U BG]=-= Death to the fascist insects who suck the blood of the people! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 13:01:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA25205 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:01:47 -0800 Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA25197; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:01:45 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com Received: from localhost by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id NAA28896; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:00:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199503192100.NAA28896@netcom14.netcom.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers), hasty@netcom.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/man/catman catman.perl In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 19 Mar 95 12:12:33 -0800. <20209.795643953@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 13:00:25 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If perl weren't already so popular, I'd be making a case for a tcl daemon > that you could feed scripts to in order to check your system security and> /o r I will make a case for a tcl/daemon, it has safe-tcl, and you can have command language, curses, or X interface. There is a tcl extension which allows tk programs to use curses which in my opinion is a sys admin dreams. On the other hand, the script that the group really want is Newton-script which is used on the newton to write GUI applications and it has excellent OO extensions. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 13:28:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA28867 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:28:27 -0800 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA28844 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:28:23 -0800 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id NAA23519; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:28:18 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:28:18 -0800 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199503192128.NAA23519@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: eh? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!ames!newsfeed.gsfc.nasa.gov!news!kstailey From: kstailey@leidecker.gsfc.nasa.gov (Kenneth Stailey) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: ThinkPad's & FreeBSD Date: 18 Mar 1995 21:55:43 GMT Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center -- Greenbelt, Maryland USA Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <1995Mar17.093120.40317@cobra.uni.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: leidecker.gsfc.nasa.gov In-reply-to: kuhtzc0580@cobra.uni.edu's message of 17 Mar 95 09:31:20 -0600 >I've just tried to boot a ThinkPad 700C with a kcopy ah bootdisk.. it'll >'boot' til it tries to mount the root filesystem on fd0c >"changing root device to fd0c" .. it just rattles on the disk forever. The ThinkPad uses some memory in the upper part first megabyte that 'normal' PC BIOSes do not. Try gopher://ftp.netbsd.org to get to the NetBSD mail archive for more details as to how it was fixed under NetBSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 13:50:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA05108 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:50:40 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA05059 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:50:30 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA08910; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:50:16 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id WAA19296 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:50:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA15808 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:40:36 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503192140.WAA15808@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:40:35 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503192024.MAA24478@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 19, 95 12:24:56 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 264 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Why would he need to mount it writeable for that ? Ok, i've overseen the `writeable'. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 13:56:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06262 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:56:38 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06242 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:56:32 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA03660; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 15:00:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 15:00:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199503192200.PAA03660@trout.sri.MT.net> To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: eh? In-Reply-To: <199503192128.NAA23519@violet.berkeley.edu> References: <199503192128.NAA23519@violet.berkeley.edu> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >I've just tried to boot a ThinkPad 700C with a kcopy ah bootdisk.. it'll > >'boot' til it tries to mount the root filesystem on fd0c > >"changing root device to fd0c" .. it just rattles on the disk forever. > > The ThinkPad uses some memory in the upper part first megabyte that > 'normal' PC BIOSes do not. > > Try gopher://ftp.netbsd.org to get to the NetBSD mail archive for more > details as to how it was fixed under NetBSD. I have a ThinkPad 750C sitting about 2 feet next to me that I can test bootdisks on, though it's not going to be running FreeBSD for a while since I need it for work. If anyone wants to make the changes necessary I'd be willing to test them out. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 14:31:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09426 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:31:49 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09415 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:31:45 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA27602; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:31:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199503192231.OAA27602@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: eh? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:28:18 PST." <199503192128.NAA23519@violet.berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:31:41 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>I've just tried to boot a ThinkPad 700C with a kcopy ah bootdisk.. it'll >>'boot' til it tries to mount the root filesystem on fd0c >>"changing root device to fd0c" .. it just rattles on the disk forever. > >The ThinkPad uses some memory in the upper part first megabyte that >'normal' PC BIOSes do not. > >Try gopher://ftp.netbsd.org to get to the NetBSD mail archive for more >details as to how it was fixed under NetBSD. The 700 and 720 are MCA machines. Are we ever going to bring in the MCA stuff that a few folks have done? -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 14:33:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09469 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:33:12 -0800 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09463 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:33:10 -0800 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id RAA04235; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:32:56 -0500 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:32:56 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hasty@netcom.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The old soud sys was installed on 'top of' 2.0 -current. Running a make depend uncovered some missing headers: cc: ../../gnu/i386/scd.c: No such file or directory ../../i386/i386/conf.c:245: matcd.h: No such file or directory ../../i386/i386/conf.c:893: nic.h: No such file or directory ../../i386/i386/conf.c:904: nnic.h: No such file or directory This being the case it looks like its not practical for me to build vat since it would require backing off to 2.0R. Maybe the only issue in the way is the lack of the above files, what do you think? kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 14:53:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10682 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:53:09 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10672 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:53:06 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA24472; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:53:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA02694; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:53:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199503192253.OAA02694@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 21:05:06 +0100." <199503192005.VAA15103@uriah.heep.sax.de> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:53:01 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As David Greenman wrote: >> >> The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. > >But then, there should also be a way to get around this. The super >user is assumed to know what he's doing -- and be it for the only >reason to save just one [apparently good] file out of a totally >damaged disk before newfs'ing it. > >Unfortunatley, -f is already used in mount(8). I would go along with this. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 14:55:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10869 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:55:12 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10856 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:55:08 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA24476; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:55:03 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA02707; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:55:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199503192255.OAA02707@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 95 12:24:56 PST." <199503192024.MAA24478@ref.tfs.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:55:02 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> As David Greenman wrote: >> > >> > The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. >> >> But then, there should also be a way to get around this. The super >> user is assumed to know what he's doing -- and be it for the only >> reason to save just one [apparently good] file out of a totally >> damaged disk before newfs'ing it. > >Why would he need to mount it writeable for that ? Yes, this is why I said "writable" above. I would always want read-only to work. ...but like I just said in a previous message, an option to force the system to mount writable it wouldn't be unreasonable. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 16:03:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23181 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:03:14 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23174 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:03:11 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA16105 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:33:50 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA08687; 19 Mar 95 17:16:57 CST (Sun) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA08684 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:16:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199503192316.RAA08684@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: tcl bmaked for FreeBSD X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 17:16:49 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The Netbsd bmake files seem to work quite well for tcl in freefall. I couldn't do the complete install since I don't have anywhere else to check out 2.0 stuff. I had to make a couple of minor changes to get it to compile (NetBSD install seems to have a -d flag, looks like it makes directories) and some hacks to build it under ~pds/tcltk (mostly in Makefile.inc, they're pretty obvious... I had to make-install the libraries by hand). Right now it's got a rather complex build sequence.. I'm trying to clean things up a bit so it makes properly without having to make install the library first. I'm getting core dumps in expr.test right now. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 16:27:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26596 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:27:00 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26580; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:26:56 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA25163; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:26:51 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503200026.QAA25163@ref.tfs.com> Subject: using expect to dial... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 16:26:51 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1416 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here is the small expect script I use to dial in to a cisco and start a slip session. It uses a little know feature of expect to talk directly to the tty-device. Hope somebody can use it: Poul-Henning #!/usr/local/bin/expect set device /dev/cuaa2 set speed 115200 set dial AT&M5&D3M2DT1234567 set user phk set upasswd Guess set machine flagmose set mpasswd Who set localip 192.216.222.24 set remoteip 192.216.222.11 set ntpip 140.145.250.1 proc EX str { expect $str "" \ timeout "exit 1" \ "BUSY" "exit 1" \ "NO DIAL TONE" "exit 1" \ "NO CARRIER" "exit 1" } set fd [open $device "r+"] stty $speed raw < $device spawn -open $fd set timeout 1 send "AT\r" expect "OK" "" send "AT\r" expect "OK" "" set timeout 60 send "$dial\r" EX "Username: " set timeout 15 send "$user\r" EX "Password: " send "$upasswd\r" EX ">" send "slip /c\r" EX "hostname: " send "$machine\r" EX "Password: " send "$mpasswd\r" EX "/compress." exec slattach -s $speed -c -h $device >&@ stdout exec ifconfig sl0 mtu 1500 >&@ stdout exec ifconfig sl0 $localip $remoteip up >&@ stdout exec route delete default >&@ stdout exec route add default $remoteip >&@ stdout exec sh -c "ping -c 3 $remoteip" >&@ stdout exec sh -c "ntpdate $ntpip" >&@ stdout -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 18:13:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA07290 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:13:55 -0800 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (root@hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA07284 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:13:53 -0800 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA20639 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Mon, 20 Mar 1995 04:13:46 +0200 From: Heikki Suonsivu Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id EAA03300; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 04:13:50 +0200 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 04:13:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199503200213.EAA03300@shadows.cs.hut.fi> To: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: guido@IAEhv.nl's message of 19 Mar 1995 20:12:52 +0200 Subject: restore times veryyyy long Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We did a restore of a 1.2 gig partition. The restore was done from a dat tape to a completely empty partition. It took 10(!) hours. Can anybody explain why this should take so long? What drive you have? We have got a WangDAT 3400DX and see similar problem, about 12KB/s read performance, while writes work normally. The same drive on a Sun SS10 works considerably better even though it is slower reading than writing. Both Buslogic 445S and Adaptek 1542 behave similarly. Restores have been so infrequent that I haven't had time to look at this more closely, but it might be useful to get it solved. We also saw cache getting disabled on a HP drive, apparently by changing from read to write or vice versa, don't remember any more which way it was. I understood that this was a bug in the drive. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 18:31:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA08127 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:31:24 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA08119 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:31:24 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Comparison of un*x's To: jbeukema@hk.super.net (John Beukema) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:30:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Mar 19, 95 10:46:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1963 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Solaris (Seemingly the first choice of several members) good while it works and has 3rd party s/w ported to it, but when it fails..... DOCS tend to be SPARC oriented.. how much 3rd party S/W will you plan on running? > FreeBSD I'm biased, but If it doesn't work, you can usually track it down yourself with the sources.. (or post on the net). for x86 machines, the way to go.. > SunOS (Does it even run on i386?) NO, closest would be netbsd I guess. > BSDI You pay the price and you get real support, They are specialising in supporting Internet Service providers.. Source is available at realistic (but not free) prices. > SCO hmm lots of 3rd party stuff and most PD s/w has been ported to it. a PAIN to use though and any single thing going wrong can be a show-stopper.. works well for systems where you check it works and duplicate it a thousand times, If you're going to be more 'original' beware.. > NetBSD another good choice, but not as good as FreeBSD if you want x86 support. Their version Is slightly ahead in terms of running LINUX binaries, but FreeBSD is only slightly behind.. > Any other suggestions. (Linux has been eliminated due to too frequent > patches.) I've heard good things about QNX, but they are less 'compatible' > > It is likely I cannot prevail on FreeBSD at this time. What would the > *second choice* be, particularily in terms of compatibility with FreeBSD? > I could then use FreeBSD on one machine on the network and compare. I'd go for BSDI.. They have the talent working for them.. but don't sell yourself short.. really push FreeBSD.. it's looking *GOOD*.. +----------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / On assignment | / \ julian@tfs.com +------>x USA \ in a very strange | ( OZ ) 300 lakeside Dr. oakland CA. \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ USA+(510) 645-3137(wk) \_/ \\ v From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 18:46:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA09078 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:46:11 -0800 Received: from po8.andrew.cmu.edu (PO8.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.108]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA09071 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:46:10 -0800 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po8.andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA17454 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:46:04 -0500 Received: via switchmail; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:46:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs26.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:44:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from pcs26.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Jan.26.1995.18.43.47.sun4c.411.EzMail.Phred.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs26.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs26.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:44:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:44:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: eh? In-Reply-To: <199503192128.NAA23519@violet.berkeley.edu> References: <199503192128.NAA23519@violet.berkeley.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 19-Mar-95 eh? by Jordan K. Hubbard@violet > >I've just tried to boot a ThinkPad 700C with a kcopy ah bootdisk.. it'll > >'boot' til it tries to mount the root filesystem on fd0c > >"changing root device to fd0c" .. it just rattles on the disk forever. > > The ThinkPad uses some memory in the upper part first megabyte that > 'normal' PC BIOSes do not. I'm tying on a 750 as we speak. don't know how close it is to the 700 though. in netbsd you have to use 4k less memory then the probed amound (ie, biosbasemem -= 4 in arch/i386/i386/machdep.c). now to get the pcmcia slots working :) alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 19:33:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA13612 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:33:05 -0800 Received: from robbie.scsn.net (root@robbie.scsn.net [199.1.89.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA13595 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:33:02 -0800 Received: (from pritchet@localhost) by robbie.scsn.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA30437 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:39:11 -0500 From: Ron Pritchett Message-Id: <199503200339.WAA30437@robbie.scsn.net> Subject: NCR troubles To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:39:09 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: pritchet@scsn.net Return-Reply-To: pritchet@scsn.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 78 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --- #include Ron Pritchett email: pritchet@realm-software.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 19:34:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA13834 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:34:17 -0800 Received: from ifqsc.sc.usp.br (uspfsc.ifqsc.sc.usp.br [143.107.228.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA13809 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:34:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 00:31 BRT From: Carlos Antonio Ruggiero Subject: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Message-id: <261D8B56D39F009C1D@IFQSC.SC.USP.BR> X-Envelope-to: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com X-VMS-To: IN%"hackers@freefall.cdrom.com" X-VMS-Cc: TOTO References: Internet: ifqsc.usp.br HepNet: uspfsc.hepnet X.25:(0724)11620020 Comments: ifqsc.usp.br: Instituto de Fisica e Quimica de Sao Carlos - USP, BR Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, I'm having problems with my Adaptec 2940 and 950210 SNAP. I understand the ahc0 is still in the development phase but maybe someone can help me. I have a Pentium machine with 3 IDE disk driven by a Promise IDE controller. No problems here. Recently I bought a Quantum Empire 2100 (2 G) and a 2940 controller. I am running 2.0 Release which seems to be working really fine (congratulations to all!!). However, 2.0R doesn't have 2940 support so I decided to try the snap version on my new Empire disk. It seems to work all right though getting the disk correctly probed during boot phase is kind of tricky (what i do is: 1) Boot DOS with adaptec drivers 2) Boot FreeBSD 950210snap. The system boots from the scsi drive but the Quantum disk is not recognized and i have to reset the machine to stop the error messages about the 15th device in the scsi bus ??? 3) Boot SNAP again and voila: everything works fine). Last week, i bought an Exabyte 4200 DAT device and connected it to the scsi bus. The system boots all right if I follow the procedure above (except that, during step 2, the machine doesn't give me any error messages, it just hangs...). If I try to backup something to the DAT, mainly from the scsi disk, the system panics randomly after a few megabytes (it lasts much longer when data comes from the IDEs disks but it also panics..) I tried current (950317) with no success: the system can't get past the probe phase. It hangs trying to probe the scsi devices. My questions are: 1) Is there anybody else having similar problems? I read something in this list about panics and about the 2940 but cant remember what :-) Are these problems related? 2) Is there any possibility my Exabyte tape is not behaving correctly? It does seem to work fine in DOS but my partitions there are quite small... 3) Is there anything I can do to help debugging the 2940 driver (if you think the problem is there)? 4) Would the panic message help to find out what the problem is? Thanks a lot, Toto toto@ifqsc.sc.usp.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 19:36:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA14314 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:36:59 -0800 Received: from robbie.scsn.net (root@robbie.scsn.net [199.1.89.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA14305 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:36:56 -0800 Received: (from pritchet@localhost) by robbie.scsn.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA30483 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:43:01 -0500 From: Ron Pritchett Message-Id: <199503200343.WAA30483@robbie.scsn.net> Subject: NCR PCI SCSI To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:42:59 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: pritchet@scsn.net Return-Reply-To: pritchet@scsn.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 495 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am having a lot of problems with the NCR SCSI controller (PCI bus). I'm trying to create a 500MB partition on a Quantam SCSI-2 HD. Each time I run fsck, it finds more and more "junk"... it cannot hold a file system. The drive, controller, computer, etc are fine. Os/2, DOS and Linux all work great. I'm using the 2.0 Release.... any help would be appreciated... I'm using a P5-90 with the intel MB... 16MB RAM... --- #include Ron Pritchett email: pritchet@realm-software.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 20:39:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01248 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 20:39:05 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01239; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 20:38:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA01834; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:37:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199503200437.VAA01834@rover.village.org> To: "Daniel Leeds" Subject: Re: ultrastor 34f Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 17 Mar 1995 14:06:58 CST Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:37:54 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : I want to know if the ultrastor 34f controller (scsi-2) VL will work with : freebsd, I heard it does, but want to know if it is stable and works : well before I buy it. Rock solid stable since about version 1.0 GAMMA or so. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 21:13:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA01750 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:13:22 -0800 Received: from coyote.rain.org (dcasba@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01744 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:13:21 -0800 Received: by coyote.rain.org(8.6.10/RAIN-1.0) with id VAA20616 for on Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:08:21 -0800 From: Tom Gray - DCA Message-Id: <199503200508.VAA20616@coyote.rain.org> Subject: Re: Reference To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:08:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503191021.LAA09664@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 19, 95 11:21:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 560 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Gieger@aol.com wrote: > > > > Is there a online help or reference file for commands in > > FreeBSD 2.0? A detailed help with small examples would > > be great. > > OOOOOH NOOOO! > > Did you _ever_ look into some unix literature before???? > > The common answer to this is RTFM, but since you're not even able > to *find* that f**** manual.... Try to start with the command > ``man man''. Is it just me or does anyone else find this sort of reply offensive? Is this appropriate language for a public forum? John John Poplett dcasba@pacrain.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 22:00:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03047 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:00:50 -0800 Received: from coyote.rain.org (dcasba@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA03021 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:00:47 -0800 Received: by coyote.rain.org(8.6.10/RAIN-1.0) with id VAA25783 for Hackers@FreeBSD.org on Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:56:20 -0800 From: Tom Gray - DCA Message-Id: <199503200556.VAA25783@coyote.rain.org> Subject: pacman To: Hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 21:56:18 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 39474 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here's a terminal-based pacman for FreeBSD. The source is quite dated but the code compiles and runs okay. John John Poplett dcasba@pacrain.com # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # . # ./Makefile # ./monster.c # ./pacdefs.h # ./pacman.c # ./rain.c # ./util.c # ./pacman.6 # echo c - . mkdir -p . > /dev/null 2>&1 echo x - ./Makefile sed 's/^X//' >./Makefile << 'END-of-./Makefile' X# @(#)Makefile 8.1 (Berkeley) 5/31/93 X XPROG= pacman XSRCS= pacman.c monster.c util.c XMAN6= pacman.6 XCFLAGS += -DNODELAY -DHAVE_TERMIOS -DHAVE_USLEEP XDPADD= ${LIBTERMLIB} XLDADD= -ltermlib X#HIDEGAME=hidegame X X.include END-of-./Makefile echo x - ./monster.c sed 's/^X//' >./monster.c << 'END-of-./monster.c' X#include X#include "pacdefs.h" X Xextern char X *vs_cm; X Xextern char X brd[BRDY][BRDX], X display[BRDY][BRDX]; X Xextern int X putch(); X Xextern char X *tgoto(); X Xextern int X delay, X game, X killflg, X potion, X rounds; X Xextern unsigned X pscore; X Xextern struct pac X *pacptr; X Xint rscore[MAXMONSTER]; X Xstruct pac X monst[MAXMONSTER]; X Xstartmonst() X{ X register struct pac *mptr; X register int monstnum; X X if (potion == TRUE) X { X /* don't start if potion active */ X return; X }; X X for (mptr = &monst[0], monstnum = 0; monstnum < MAXMONSTER; mptr++, monstnum++) X { X if (mptr->stat == START) X { X rscore[monstnum] = 1; X X /* clear home */ X PLOT(mptr->ypos, mptr->xpos, VACANT); X X /* initialize moving monster */ X mptr->ypos = MBEGINY; X mptr->xpos = MBEGINX; X mptr->speed = SLOW; X mptr->danger = TRUE; X mptr->stat = RUN; X PLOT(MBEGINY, MBEGINX, MONSTER); X X /* DRIGHT or DLEFT? */ X mptr->dirn = getrand(2) + DLEFT; X break; X }; X }; X} X Xmonster(mnum) X int mnum; X{ X register int newx,newy; X register int tmpx, tmpy; X struct pac *mptr; X int gmod2; X X mptr = &monst[mnum]; X X /* remember monster's current position */ X tmpx = mptr->xpos; X tmpy = mptr->ypos; X X /* if we can, let's move a monster */ X if (mptr->stat == RUN) X { X gmod2 = game % 2; X /* if a monster was displayed ... */ X if ((gmod2 == 1) || X ((gmod2 == 0) && X (( (rounds - 1) % rscore[mnum]) == 0))) X { X /* replace display character */ X PLOT(tmpy, tmpx, display[tmpy][tmpx]); X }; X X /* get a new direction */ X mptr->dirn = which(mptr, tmpx, tmpy); X switch (mptr->dirn) X { X case DUP: X newy = tmpy + UPINT; X newx = tmpx; X break; X X case DDOWN: X newy = tmpy + DOWNINT; X newx = tmpx; X break; X X case DLEFT: X newx = tmpx + LEFTINT; X newy = tmpy; X if (newx <= 0) X newx = XWRAP; /* wrap around */ X break; X X case DRIGHT: X newx = tmpx + RIGHTINT; X newy = tmpy; X if (newx >= XWRAP) X newx = 0; /* wrap around */ X break; X } X X /* use brd to determine if this was a valid direction */ X switch (brd[newy][newx]) X { X case GOLD: X case VACANT: X case POTION: X case TREASURE: X case CHOICE: X /* set new position */ X mptr->xpos = newx; X mptr->ypos = newy; X X /* run into a pacman? */ X if ((newy == pacptr->ypos) && X (newx == pacptr->xpos)) X { X killflg = dokill(mnum); X }; X rscore[mnum] = pscore / 100 + 1; X if ((gmod2 == 1) || (killflg == TURKEY) || X ( (gmod2 == 0) && X ((rounds % rscore[mnum]) == 0))) X { X X if (mptr->danger == TRUE) X { X PLOT(newy, newx, MONSTER); X } X else if (killflg != GOTONE) X { X PLOT(newy, newx, RUNNER); X }; X }; X break; X X default: X errgen("bad direction"); X break; X }; X } X} X Xwhich(mptr, x, y) /* which directions are available ? */ X struct pac *mptr; X int x, y; X{ X register int movecnt; X register int submovecnt; X register int next; X int moves[4]; X int submoves[4]; X int nydirn, nxdirn; X int goodmoves; X int offx, offy; X int tmpdirn; X char *brdptr; X X /* X * As a general rule: determine the set of all X * possible moves, but select only those moves X * that don't require a monster to backtrack. X */ X movecnt = 0; X brdptr = &(brd[y][x]); X if (((tmpdirn = mptr->dirn) != DDOWN) && X ((next = *(brdptr + (BRDX * UPINT))) != WALL) && X (next != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DUP; X }; X if ((tmpdirn != DUP) && X ((next = *(brdptr + (BRDX * DOWNINT))) != WALL) && X (next != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DDOWN; X }; X if ((tmpdirn != DRIGHT) && X ((next = *(brdptr + LEFTINT)) != WALL) && X (next != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DLEFT; X }; X if ((tmpdirn != DLEFT) && X ((next = *(brdptr + RIGHTINT)) != WALL) && X (next != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DRIGHT; X }; X X /* X * If the player requested intelligent monsters and X * the player is scoring high ... X */ X if (((game == 3) || (game == 4)) && (getrand(1000) < pscore)) X { X /* make monsters intelligent */ X if (pacptr->danger == TRUE) X { X /* X * Holy Cow!! The pacman is dangerous, X * permit monsters to reverse direction X */ X switch (tmpdirn) X { X case DUP: X if ((*(brdptr + (BRDX * DOWNINT)) != WALL) && X (*(brdptr + (BRDX * DOWNINT)) != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DDOWN; X }; X break; X X case DDOWN: X if ((*(brdptr + (BRDX * UPINT)) != WALL) && X (*(brdptr + (BRDX * UPINT)) != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DUP; X }; X break; X X case DRIGHT: X if ((*(brdptr + LEFTINT) != WALL) && X (*(brdptr + LEFTINT) != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DLEFT; X }; X break; X X case DLEFT: X if ((*(brdptr + RIGHTINT) != WALL) && X (*(brdptr + RIGHTINT) != GATE)) X { X moves[movecnt++] = DRIGHT; X }; X break; X }; X }; X X /* determine the offset from the pacman */ X offx = x - pacptr->xpos; X offy = y - pacptr->ypos; X if (offx > 0) X { X /*need to go left */ X nxdirn = DLEFT; X } X else X { X if (offx < 0) X { X nxdirn = DRIGHT; X } X else X { X /*need to stay here */ X nxdirn = DNULL; X }; X }; X if (offy > 0) X { X /*need to go up */ X nydirn = DUP; X } X else X { X if (offy < 0) X { X /* need to go down */ X nydirn = DDOWN; X } X else X { X /* need to stay here */ X nydirn = DNULL; X }; X }; X goodmoves = 0; X for (submovecnt = 0; submovecnt < movecnt; submovecnt++) X { X if (pacptr->danger == FALSE) X { X if ((moves[submovecnt] == nydirn) || X (moves[submovecnt] == nxdirn)) X { X submoves[goodmoves++] = moves[submovecnt]; X }; X } X else X { X if ((moves[submovecnt] != nydirn) && X (moves[submovecnt] != nxdirn)) X { X submoves[goodmoves++] = moves[submovecnt]; X }; X }; X }; X if (goodmoves > 0) X { X return(submoves[getrand(goodmoves)]); X }; X }; X return(moves[getrand(movecnt)]); X} END-of-./monster.c echo x - ./pacdefs.h sed 's/^X//' >./pacdefs.h << 'END-of-./pacdefs.h' X/* dfp #define POS(row,col) fputs(tgoto(vs_cm,(col),(row)),stdout)*/ X#define POS(row,col) tputs(tgoto(vs_cm,(col),(row)),1,putch) X/* dfp */ X#define PLOT(A,B,C) POS(A,B);putchar(C) X#define SPLOT(A,B,S) POS(A,B);(void)fprintf(stdout, "%s", S) X#define TMPF "/usr/tmp/pacmanXXXXXX" X#define GAME1 '1' X#define GAME2 '2' X#define GAME3 '3' X#define GAME4 '4' X X/* #define MAXSCORE "/usr/games/lib/paclog" */ X#define MAXSCORE "/var/games/pacman.scores" X X#define MSSAVE 5 /* maximum scores saved per game type */ X#define MGTYPE 4 /* Maximum game types */ X#define MAXPAC 3 /* maximum number of pacmen to start */ X#define MAXMONSTER 4 /* max number of monsters */ X#define EMPTY 'E' X#define FULL 'F' X#define LEFT 'h' X#define RIGHT 'l' X#define NORTH 'k' /* means UP, but UP defined in vsinit() */ X#define NNORTH 'w' X#define DOWN 'j' X#define NDOWN 'x' X#define HALT ' ' X#define DELETE '\177' X#define ABORT '\34' X#define QUIT 'q' X#define CNTLS '\23' X#define BUF_SIZE 32 X#define TRUE 1 X#define FALSE 0 X#define UPINT (-1) X#define DOWNINT 1 X#define LEFTINT (-2) X#define RIGHTINT 2 X#define PACMAN '@' X#define MONSTER 'M' X#define RUNNER 'S' X#define TREASURE '$' X#define CHOICE '*' X#define GOLD '+' X#define POTION 'X' X#define VACANT ' ' /* space */ X#define WALL 'O' X#define GATE '-' X#define START 0 X#define RUN 1 X#define FAST 1 X#define SLOW 0 X#define PSTARTX 18 X#define PSTARTY 17 X#define MSTARTX 16 /* monster starting position */ X#define MSTARTY 10 /* monster starting position */ X#define MBEGINX 18 /* monster beginning position */ X#define MBEGINY 7 /* monster beginning position */ X#define TRYPOS 13 X#define TRXPOS 20 X#define GOTONE 1 X#define TURKEY (-1) X#define DUP 1 X#define DDOWN 4 X#define DRIGHT 3 X#define DLEFT 2 X#define DNULL 0 X#define BRDX 40 X#define BRDY 23 X#define XWRAP 38 X#define TREASVAL 20 X#define KILLSCORE 10 X#define BEEP '' /* ctrl-g */ X#define MSTARTINTVL 10 X#define POTINTVL 25 X#define GOLDCNT 185 X#define PUP '^' X#define PDOWN 'v' X#define PLEFT '<' X#define PRIGHT '>' X Xstruct pac X{ X int xpos; /* horizontal position */ X int ypos; /* vertical position */ X int dirn; /* direction of travel */ X int speed; /* FAST/SLOW */ X int danger; /* TRUE if can eat */ X int stat; /* status */ X}; END-of-./pacdefs.h echo x - ./pacman.c sed 's/^X//' >./pacman.c << 'END-of-./pacman.c' X/* X/* PACMAN - written by Dave Nixon, AGS Computers Inc., July, 1981. X/* X/* Terminal handling for video games taken from aliens X/* the original version of aliens is from X/* Fall 1979 Cambridge Jude Miller X/* X/* Score keeping modified and general terminal handling (termcap routines X/* from UCB's ex) added by Rob Coben, BTL, June, 1980. X/* X/* If MSG is defined, the program uses the inter-process message facility X/* of UNIX/TS Augmented to optimize reading the tty while updating the X/* screen. Otherwise, the child process (reading the tty) writes X/* a temporary communications file, which the parent (updating the screen) X/* is constantly seeking to the beginning of and re-reading. (UGH!) X/* If your system has a non-blocking read (read-without-wait), it should X/* be implemented, and the child process could be dispensed with entirely. X*/ X#include X#include "pacdefs.h" X X/* X * global variables X */ X Xextern char X *vs_cm; X Xextern int X putch(); X Xextern char X *tgoto(); X Xextern char X message[]; X Xextern char X initbrd[BRDY][BRDX], X display[BRDY][BRDX]; X Xextern unsigned X pscore; X Xextern struct pac X monst[]; X Xint pacsymb = PACMAN, X rounds, /* time keeping mechanism */ X killflg, X delay, X potion, X goldcnt, /* no. of gold pieces remaining */ X potioncnt; X Xstruct pac X pac; X Xstruct pac X pacstart = X{ X PSTARTX, X PSTARTY, X DNULL, X SLOW, X FALSE X}; X Xstruct pac X *pacptr = &pac; X Xmain() X{ X register int tmp; /* temp variables */ X register int pac_cnt; X register int monstcnt; /* monster number */ X struct pac *mptr; X char gcnt[10]; X X init(); /* global init */ X for (pac_cnt = MAXPAC; pac_cnt > 0; pac_cnt--) X { Xredraw: X clr(); X SPLOT(0, 45, "SCORE: "); X SPLOT(21, 45, "gold left = "); X (void) sprintf(gcnt, "%6d", goldcnt); X SPLOT(21, 57, gcnt); X if (potion == TRUE) X { X SPLOT(3, 45, "COUNTDOWN: "); X }; X pacsymb = PACMAN; X killflg = FALSE; X (void) sprintf(message, "delay = %6d", delay); X SPLOT(22, 45, message); X /* X * PLOT maze X */ X for (tmp = 0; tmp < BRDY; tmp++) X { X SPLOT(tmp, 0, &(display[tmp][0])); X }; X /* initialize a pacman */ X pac = pacstart; X PLOT(pacptr->ypos, pacptr->xpos, pacsymb); X /* display remaining pacmen */ X for (tmp = 0; tmp < pac_cnt - 1; tmp++) X { X PLOT(23, (MAXPAC * tmp), PACMAN); X }; X /* X * Init. monsters X */ X for (mptr = &monst[0], monstcnt = 0; monstcnt < MAXMONSTER; mptr++, monstcnt++) X { X mptr->xpos = MSTARTX + (2 * monstcnt); X mptr->ypos = MSTARTY; X mptr->speed = SLOW; X mptr->dirn = DNULL; X mptr->danger = FALSE; X mptr->stat = START; X PLOT(mptr->ypos, mptr->xpos, MONSTER); X }; X rounds = 0; /* timing mechanism */ X X /* main game loop */ X do X { X if (rounds++ % MSTARTINTVL == 0) X { X startmonst(); X }; X pacman(); X if (killflg == TURKEY) X break; X for (monstcnt = 0; monstcnt < (MAXMONSTER / 2); monstcnt++) X { X monster(monstcnt); /* next monster */ X }; X if (killflg == TURKEY) X break; X if (pacptr->speed == FAST) X { X pacman(); X if (killflg == TURKEY) X break; X }; X for (monstcnt = (MAXMONSTER / 2); monstcnt < MAXMONSTER; monstcnt++) X { X monster(monstcnt); /* next monster */ X }; X if (killflg == TURKEY) X break; X if (potion == TRUE) X { X (void) sprintf(message, "%2d%c", potioncnt, X ((potioncnt == 10) ? BEEP : ' ')); X SPLOT(3, 60, message); X if (--potioncnt <= 0) X { X SPLOT(3, 45, "   "); X potion = FALSE; X pacptr->speed = SLOW; X pacptr->danger = FALSE; X for (monstcnt = 0; monstcnt < MAXMONSTER; monstcnt++) X { X monst[monstcnt].danger = TRUE; X }; X }; X }; X update(); /* score display etc */ X if (goldcnt <= 0) X { X reinit(); X goto redraw; X }; X } while (killflg != TURKEY); X SPLOT(5, 45, "YOU ARE BEING EATEN"); X SPLOT(6, 45, "THIS TAKES ABOUT 2 SECONDS"); X sleep(2); X }; X SPLOT(8, 45, "THE MONSTERS ALWAYS TRIUMPH"); X SPLOT(9, 45, "IN THE END!"); X over(); X} X Xpacman() X{ X register int sqtype; X register int mcnt; X register int tmpx, tmpy; X int deltat; X struct pac *mptr; X X /* pause; wait for the player to hit a key */ X for (deltat = delay; deltat > 0; deltat--); X X /* get instructions from player, but don't wait */ X poll(0); X X /* remember current pacman position */ X tmpx = pacptr->xpos; X tmpy = pacptr->ypos; X X /* "eat" any gold */ X /* update display array to reflect what is on terminal */ X display[tmpy][tmpx] = VACANT; X X /* what next? */ X switch (pacptr->dirn) X { X case DUP: X pacsymb = PUP; X switch (sqtype = display[tmpy + UPINT][tmpx]) X { X case GOLD: X case VACANT: X case CHOICE: X case POTION: X case TREASURE: X X /* erase where the pacman went */ X PLOT(tmpy, tmpx, VACANT); X pacptr->ypos += UPINT; X break; X X default: X pacptr->dirn = DNULL; X break; X }; X break; X case DDOWN: X pacsymb = PDOWN; X switch (sqtype = display[tmpy + DOWNINT][tmpx]) X { X case GOLD: X case VACANT: X case CHOICE: X case POTION: X case TREASURE: X X /* erase where the pacman went */ X PLOT(tmpy, tmpx, VACANT); X pacptr->ypos += DOWNINT; X break; X X default: X pacptr->dirn = DNULL; X break; X }; X break; X case DLEFT: X if(tmpx == 0) X { X /* erase where the pacman went */ X PLOT(tmpy, tmpx, VACANT); X pacptr->xpos = XWRAP; X sqtype = VACANT; X break; X }; X pacsymb = PLEFT; X switch (sqtype = display[tmpy][tmpx + LEFTINT]) X { X case GOLD: X case VACANT: X case CHOICE: X case POTION: X case TREASURE: X X /* erase where the pacman went */ X PLOT(tmpy, tmpx, VACANT); X pacptr->xpos += LEFTINT; X break; X X default: X pacptr->dirn = DNULL; X break; X }; X break; X case DRIGHT: X if(tmpx == XWRAP) X { X /* erase where the pacman went */ X PLOT(tmpy, tmpx, VACANT); X pacptr->xpos = 0; X sqtype = VACANT; X break; X }; X pacsymb = PRIGHT; X switch (sqtype = display[tmpy][tmpx + RIGHTINT]) X { X case GOLD: X case VACANT: X case CHOICE: X case POTION: X case TREASURE: X X /* erase where the pacman went */ X PLOT(tmpy, tmpx, VACANT); X pacptr->xpos += RIGHTINT; X break; X X default: X pacptr->dirn = DNULL; X break; X }; X break; X }; X X /* did the pacman get any points or eat a potion? */ X switch (sqtype) X { X case CHOICE: X case GOLD: X pscore++; X goldcnt--; X break; X X case TREASURE: X pscore += TREASVAL; X break; X X case POTION: X SPLOT(3, 45, "COUNTDOWN: "); X potion = TRUE; X potioncnt = POTINTVL; X pacptr->speed = FAST; X pacptr->danger = TRUE; X X /* slow down monsters and make them harmless */ X mptr = &monst[0]; X for (mcnt = 0; mcnt < MAXMONSTER; mcnt++) X { X if (mptr->stat == RUN) X { X mptr->speed = SLOW; X mptr->danger = FALSE; X }; X mptr++; X }; X break; X }; X X /* did the pacman run into a monster? */ X for (mptr = &monst[0], mcnt = 0; mcnt < MAXMONSTER; mptr++, mcnt++) X { X if ((mptr->xpos == pacptr->xpos) && X (mptr->ypos == pacptr->ypos)) X { X X killflg = dokill(mcnt); X } X else X { X killflg = FALSE; X }; X }; X if (killflg != TURKEY) X { X PLOT(pacptr->ypos, pacptr->xpos, pacsymb); X }; X} END-of-./pacman.c echo x - ./rain.c sed 's/^X//' >./rain.c << 'END-of-./rain.c' X Xstatic char sccsid[] = " rain.c 4.1 82/10/24 "; X X#include X#include X#include X/* rain 11/3/1980 EPS/CITHEP */ X/* cc rain.c -o rain -O -ltermlib */ X#define cursor(col,row) tputs(tgoto(CM,col,row),1,outc) Xoutc(c) X{ X putchar(c); X} Xextern char *UP; Xextern short ospeed; Xstruct sgttyb old_tty; Xchar *LL, *TE, *TI; Xmain(argc,argv) Xint argc; Xchar *argv[]; X{ X extern fputchar(); X char *malloc(); X char *getenv(); X char *tgetstr(), *tgoto(); X float ranf(); X int onsig(); X register int x, y, j; X static int xpos[5], ypos[5]; X register char *CM, *BC, *DN, *ND; X char *tcp; X register char *term; X char tcb[100]; X struct sgttyb sg; X setbuf(stdout,malloc(BUFSIZ)); X if (!(term=getenv("TERM"))) { X fprintf(stderr,"%s: TERM: parameter not set\n",*argv); X exit(1); X } X if (tgetent(malloc(1024),term)<=0) { X fprintf(stderr,"%s: %s: unknown terminal type\n",*argv,term); X exit(1); X } X tcp=tcb; X if (!(CM=tgetstr("cm",&tcp))) { X fprintf(stderr,"%s: terminal not capable of cursor motion\n",*argv); X exit(1); X } X if (!(BC=tgetstr("bc",&tcp))) BC="\b"; X if (!(DN=tgetstr("dn",&tcp))) DN="\n"; X if (!(ND=tgetstr("nd",&tcp))) ND=" "; X TE=tgetstr("te",&tcp); X TI=tgetstr("ti",&tcp); X UP=tgetstr("up",&tcp); X if (!(LL=tgetstr("ll",&tcp))) strcpy(LL=malloc(10),tgoto(CM,0,23)); X gtty(1, &sg); X ospeed=sg.sg_ospeed; X for (j=SIGHUP;j<=SIGTERM;j++) X if (signal(j,SIG_IGN)!=SIG_IGN) signal(j,onsig); X gtty(1, &old_tty); /* save tty bits for exit */ X gtty(1, &sg); X sg.sg_flags&=~(CRMOD|ECHO); X stty(1, &sg); X if (TI) fputs(TI,stdout); X tputs(tgetstr("cl",&tcp),1,fputchar); X fflush(stdout); X for (j=5;--j>=0;) { X xpos[j]=(int)(76.*ranf())+2; X ypos[j]=(int)(20.*ranf())+2; X } X for (j=0;;) { X x=(int)(76.*ranf())+2; X y=(int)(20.*ranf())+2; X cursor(x,y); fputchar('.'); X cursor(xpos[j],ypos[j]); fputchar('o'); X if (j==0) j=4; else --j; X cursor(xpos[j],ypos[j]); fputchar('O'); X if (j==0) j=4; else --j; X cursor(xpos[j],ypos[j]-1); X fputchar('-'); X fputs(DN,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); X fputs("|.|",stdout); X fputs(DN,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); X fputchar('-'); X if (j==0) j=4; else --j; X cursor(xpos[j],ypos[j]-2); fputchar('-'); X fputs(DN,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); X fputs("/ \\",stdout); X cursor(xpos[j]-2,ypos[j]); X fputs("| O |",stdout); X cursor(xpos[j]-1,ypos[j]+1); X fputs("\\ /",stdout); X fputs(DN,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); X fputchar('-'); X if (j==0) j=4; else --j; X cursor(xpos[j],ypos[j]-2); fputchar(' '); X fputs(DN,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); X fputchar(' '); fputs(ND,stdout); fputchar(' '); X cursor(xpos[j]-2,ypos[j]); X fputchar(' '); fputs(ND,stdout); fputchar(' '); X fputs(ND,stdout); fputchar(' '); X cursor(xpos[j]-1,ypos[j]+1); X fputchar(' '); fputs(ND,stdout); fputchar(' '); X fputs(DN,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); fputs(BC,stdout); X fputchar(' '); X xpos[j]=x; ypos[j]=y; X fflush(stdout); X } X} Xonsig(n) Xint n; X{ X struct sgttyb sg; X fputs(LL, stdout); X if (TE) fputs(TE, stdout); X fflush(stdout); X stty(1, &old_tty); X kill(getpid(),n); X _exit(0); X} Xfputchar(c) Xchar c; X{ X putchar(c); X} Xfloat ranf() { X return((float)rand()/2147483647.); X} END-of-./rain.c echo x - ./util.c sed 's/^X//' >./util.c << 'END-of-./util.c' X#include X#include X#ifdef HAVE_TERMIOS X#include X#include X#else X#include X#endif X#include X#include "pacdefs.h" X X#ifndef O_RDWR X#define O_RDWR 2 X#define O_CREAT 0 X#define O_RDONLY 0 X#define O_NDELAY 0 X#endif X X#if !HAVE_SIGSET X#define sigset signal X#endif X Xextern char X *BC, X *UP; X Xextern int X putch(); X Xextern char X *tgoto(), X *mktemp(); X Xextern int X delay, X errno, X goldcnt; X Xextern long X time(); X Xextern void X leave(); X Xextern struct pac X *pacptr; X Xextern struct pac X monst[]; X X#ifndef MSG Xint comfile; X#else Xstruct mstruct X{ X int frompid; X int mtype; X}; X X#endif X X#ifndef NODELAY X X#ifndef MSG Xchar *fnam; X#endif X X#endif X X/* X * initbrd is used to re-initialize the display X * array once a new game is started. X */ Xchar initbrd[BRDY][BRDX] = X{ X"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", X"O + + + * + + + + OOO + + + + * + + + O", X"O X OOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOO X O", X"O * + + * + * + * + + * + * + * + + * O", X"O + OOO + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + OOO + O", X"O + + + * O + + + OOO + + + O * + + + O", X"OOOOOOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOOOOOO", X" O + O + + * + + * + + O + O ", X" O + O + OOO - - OOO + O + O ", X"OOOOOOO + O + O O + O + OOOOOOO", X" * + * O O * + * ", X"OOOOOOO + O + O O + O + OOOOOOO", X" O + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + O ", X" O + O * + + + + + + * O + O ", X"OOOOOOO + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + OOOOOOO", X"O + + + * + * + + OOO + + * + * + + + O", X"O X OOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOO X O", X"O + + O * + * + * + + * + * + * O + + O", X"OOO + O + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + O + OOO", X"O + * + + O + + + OOO + + + O + + * + O", X"O + OOOOOOOOOOO + OOO + OOOOOOOOOOO + O", X"O + + + + + + + * + + * + + + + + + + O", X"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", X}; X X/* X * brd is kept for historical reasons. X * It should only be used in the routine "which" X * to determine the next move for a monster or X * in the routine "monster" to determine if it X * was a valid move. Admittedly this is redundant X * and could be replaced by initbrd, but it is kept X * so that someday additional intelligence or X * optimization could be added to the choice of X * the monster's next move. Hence, note the symbol X * CHOICE at most points that a move decision X * logically HAS to be made. X */ Xchar brd[BRDY][BRDX] = X{ X"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", X"O + + + * + + + + OOO + + + + * + + + O", X"O X OOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOO X O", X"O * + + * + * + * + + * + * + * + + * O", X"O + OOO + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + OOO + O", X"O + + + * O + + + OOO + + + O * + + + O", X"OOOOOOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOOOOOO", X" O + O + + * + + * + + O + O ", X" O + O + OOO - - OOO + O + O ", X"OOOOOOO + O + O O + O + OOOOOOO", X" * + * O O * + * ", X"OOOOOOO + O + O O + O + OOOOOOO", X" O + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + O ", X" O + O * + + + + + + * O + O ", X"OOOOOOO + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + OOOOOOO", X"O + + + * + * + + OOO + + * + * + + + O", X"O X OOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOO X O", X"O + + O * + * + * + + * + * + * O + + O", X"OOO + O + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + O + OOO", X"O + * + + O + + + OOO + + + O + + * + O", X"O + OOOOOOOOOOO + OOO + OOOOOOOOOOO + O", X"O + + + + + + + * + + * + + + + + + + O", X"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", X}; X X/* X * display reflects the screen on the player's X * terminal at any point in time. X */ Xchar display[BRDY][BRDX] = X{ X"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", X"O + + + + + + + + OOO + + + + + + + + O", X"O X OOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOO X O", X"O + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + O", X"O + OOO + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + OOO + O", X"O + + + + O + + + OOO + + + O + + + + O", X"OOOOOOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOOOOOO", X" O + O + + + + + + + + O + O ", X" O + O + OOO - - OOO + O + O ", X"OOOOOOO + O + O O + O + OOOOOOO", X" + + + O O + + + ", X"OOOOOOO + O + O O + O + OOOOOOO", X" O + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + O ", X" O + O + + + + + + + + O + O ", X"OOOOOOO + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + OOOOOOO", X"O + + + + + + + + OOO + + + + + + + + O", X"O X OOO + OOOOO + OOO + OOOOO + OOO X O", X"O + + O + + + + + + + + + + + + O + + O", X"OOO + O + O + OOOOOOOOOOO + O + O + OOO", X"O + + + + O + + + OOO + + + O + + + + O", X"O + OOOOOOOOOOO + OOO + OOOOOOOOOOO + O", X"O + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + O", X"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO", X}; X X/* terminal type from environment and /etc/termcap ala ex & vi */ Xchar *vs_cl = "", /* clear screen sequence */ X *vs_cm = "", /* cursor positioning sequence */ X *vs_vb = ""; X Xchar combuf[BUFSIZ], X message[81], /* temporary message buffer */ X inbuf[2]; X Xint ppid, X cpid, X game, X killcnt = 0, X vs_rows, X vs_cols; X Xunsigned X pscore; X Xlong timein; X X#ifdef HAVE_TERMIOS Xstruct termios X savetty, X newtty; X#else Xstruct sgttyb X savetty, newtty; X#endif X Xstruct uscore X{ X unsigned score; /* same type as pscore */ X int uid; /* uid of player */ X}; X Xstruct scorebrd X{ X struct uscore entry[MSSAVE]; X} scoresave[MGTYPE] = X { X 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, X 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, X 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, X 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 X }; X Xvoid nap (int naptime) X{ X#ifdef HAVE_USLEEP X usleep (naptime * 18000); X#else X register int i = naptime * 5000; X while (i--); X#endif X} X Xupdate() X{ X char str[10]; X X (void) sprintf(str, "%6d", pscore); X SPLOT(0, 52, str); X (void) sprintf(str, "%6d", goldcnt); X SPLOT(21, 57, str); X} X Xreinit() X{ X register int locx, locy; X register char tmp; X X for (locy = 0; locy < BRDY; locy++) X { X for (locx = 0; locx < BRDX; locx++) X { X tmp = initbrd[locy][locx]; X brd[locy][locx] = tmp; X if ((display[locy][locx] = tmp) == CHOICE) X { X display[locy][locx] = GOLD; X }; X }; X }; X goldcnt = GOLDCNT; X delay -= (delay / 10); /* hot it up */ X} X Xerrgen(string) Xchar *string; X{ X SPLOT(23,45,string); X} X Xdokill(mnum) X int mnum; X{ X register struct pac *mptr; X X PLOT(0, 0, BEEP); X if (pacptr->danger == TRUE) X { X if (++killcnt == MAXMONSTER) X { X if (display[TRYPOS][TRXPOS] == GOLD) X { X goldcnt--; X }; X display[TRYPOS][TRXPOS] = TREASURE; X PLOT(TRYPOS, TRXPOS, TREASURE); X killcnt = 0; X }; X SPLOT(5, 45, "MONSTERS KILLED: "); X (void) sprintf(message, "%1d", killcnt); X SPLOT(5, 62, message); X mptr = (&monst[mnum]); X mptr->ypos = MSTARTY; X mptr->xpos = MSTARTX + (2 * mnum); X mptr->stat = START; X PLOT(mptr->ypos, mptr->xpos, MONSTER); X pscore += KILLSCORE; X return(GOTONE); X }; X return(TURKEY); X} X X/* X/* clr -- issues an escape sequence to clear the display X*/ X Xclr() X{ X /* ... kre X (void) fprintf(stdout, "%s", vs_cl); X fflush(stdout); X nap(2); X */ X tputs(vs_cl, vs_rows, putch); X fflush(stdout); X} X X/* X * display initial instructions X */ X Xinstruct() X{ X clr(); X POS(0, 0); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "Attention: you are in a dungeon, being chased by monsters!\r\n\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "There are gold coins scattered uniformly in the dungeon, marked by \"+\".\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "One magic potion is available at each spot marked \"X\". Each potion will\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "enable you to kill monsters by touch for a limited duration. It will also\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "scare them away. When you kill a monster it is regenerated, but this takes\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "time. You can also regenerate yourself %d times. Killing all the monsters\r\n", MAXPAC); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "results in further treasure appearing magically somewhere in the dungeon,\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "marked by \"$\". There is a magic tunnel connecting the center left and\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "center right parts of the dungeon. The monsters know about it!\r\n\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " Type: h to move left\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " l to move right\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " k or w to move up\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " j or x to move down\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " to halt \r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " q to quit\r\n\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " Type: 1 normal game\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " 2 blinking monsters\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " 3 intelligent monsters\r\n"); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " 4 blinking intelligent monsters\r\n"); X} X X/* X * over -- game over processing X */ X Xover() X{ X register int i; X register int line; X int scorefile = 0; X struct passwd *getpwuid(), *p; X X fflush(stdout); X sleep(5); /* for slow readers */ X poll(0); /* flush and discard input from player */ X clr(); X /* high score to date processing */ X if (game != 0) X { X line = 7; X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, " ___________________________ "); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| |"); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| G A M E O V E R |"); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| |"); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| Game type: %1d |",game); X if ((scorefile = open(MAXSCORE, O_RDWR | O_CREAT, 0666)) != -1) X { X read(scorefile, (char *)scoresave, sizeof(scoresave)); X for (i = MSSAVE - 1; i >= 0; i--) { X if (scoresave[game - 1].entry[i].score < pscore) X { X if (i < MSSAVE - 1) X { X scoresave[game - 1].entry[i + 1].score = X scoresave[game - 1].entry[i].score; X scoresave[game - 1].entry[i + 1].uid = X scoresave[game - 1].entry[i].uid; X }; X scoresave[game - 1].entry[i].score = pscore; X scoresave[game - 1].entry[i].uid = getuid(); X }; X }; X lseek(scorefile, 0l, 0); X write(scorefile, (char *)scoresave, sizeof(scoresave)); X close(scorefile); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| High Scores to date: |"); X for (i = 0; i < MSSAVE; i++) X { X setpwent(); X p = getpwuid(scoresave[game - 1].entry[i].uid); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| Player : %-8s %5u |", p->pw_name, X scoresave[game - 1].entry[i].score); X }; X } X else X { X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| |"); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| Please create a 'paclog' |"); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| file. See 'MAXSCORE' in |"); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| 'pacdefs.h'. |"); X }; X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| |"); X POS(line++, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "| Your score: %-5u |", pscore); X POS(line, 20); X (void) fprintf(stdout, "|___________________________|"); X }; X leave(); X} X X/* X * leave -- flush buffers,kill the Child, reset tty, and delete tempfile X */ X Xvoid leave() X{ X POS(23, 0); X (void) fflush(stdout); X sleep(1); X X#ifndef NODELAY X kill(cpid, SIGKILL); X#endif X X#ifdef HAVE_TERMIOS X tcsetattr (0, TCSANOW, &savetty); X#else X ioctl(0, TIOCSETP, &savetty); X#endif X X#ifndef NODELAY X X#ifndef MSG X close(comfile); X unlink(fnam); X#endif X X#endif X exit(0); X} X X/* X * init -- does global initialization and spawns a child process to read X * the input terminal. X */ X Xinit() X{ X register int tries = 0; X static int lastchar = DELETE; X extern short ospeed; /* baud rate for crt (for tputs()) */ X X errno = 0; X (void) time(&timein); /* get start time */ X srand((unsigned)timein); /* start rand randomly */ X /* X * verify CRT and get proper cursor control sequence. X */ X X#ifdef NODELAY X X#ifndef BELL30 X close(0); X if (open("/dev/tty", O_RDONLY | O_NDELAY) != 0) X { X perror("Unable to open /dev/tty"); X exit(1); X }; X#endif X X#endif X vsinit(); X /* X * setup raw mode, no echo X */ X#ifdef SIGTSTP X sigset(SIGTSTP, SIG_IGN); /* ignore ^Z (too hard just now) .. kre */ X#endif X#ifdef SIG_HOLD X sigset(SIGINT, SIG_HOLD); /* keep ints till we are ready .. kre */ X#endif X#ifdef HAVE_TERMIOS X tcgetattr (0, &savetty); X newtty = savetty; X if (savetty.c_ospeed >= B9600) X delay = 1000 * (getrand(10) + 5); X else X delay = 1000; X ospeed = savetty.c_ospeed; /* for tputs() */ X#ifdef NODELAY X newtty.c_cc[VTIME] = 7; X newtty.c_cc[VMIN] = 0; X#else X newtty.c_cc[VMIN] = 1; X#endif X newtty.c_iflag = 0; X newtty.c_oflag &= ~OPOST; X newtty.c_cflag &= ~(PARENB | CSIZE); X newtty.c_cflag |= CS8; X /* newtty.c_lflag &= ~(ECHO | ECHOE | ISIG | ICANON); */ X newtty.c_lflag &= ~(ECHO | ECHOE | ICANON); X tcsetattr (0, TCSANOW, &newtty); X#else X ioctl(0, TIOCGETP, &savetty); X newtty = savetty; X if (savetty.sg_ospeed >= B9600) X delay = 1000 * (getrand(10) + 5); X else X delay = 1000; X ospeed = savetty.sg_ospeed; /* for tputs() */ X newtty.sg_flags |= CBREAK; X newtty.sg_flags &= ~ECHO; X ioctl(0, TIOCSETP, &newtty); X#endif X X /* X * set up communications X */ X X#ifndef NODELAY X X#ifndef MSG X fnam = mktemp(TMPF); X if ((comfile = creat(fnam, 0666)) == -1) X { X (void) sprintf(message, "Cannot create %s", fnam); X perror(message); X leave(); X }; X /* X * initialize semaphore X */ X lseek(comfile, 0l, 0); X combuf[1] = EMPTY; X write(comfile, combuf, 2); X close(comfile); X#endif X#endif X X#ifndef NODELAY X /* X * fork off a child to read the input X */ X ppid = getpid(); X if ((cpid = fork()) == 0) X { X#ifndef MSG X comfile = open(fnam, O_RDWR); X#endif X for (;;) X { X read(0, inbuf, 1); X if (lastchar != inbuf[0]) X { X#ifdef MSG X if (inbuf[0] == DELETE || inbuf[0] == ABORT) X leave(); X send(inbuf, 1, ppid, 64); X#else X lseek(comfile, 0l, 0); X read(comfile, combuf, 2); X if (combuf[1] == EMPTY) X { X lseek(comfile, 0l, 0); X combuf[0] = inbuf[0]; X combuf[1] = FULL; X write(comfile, combuf, 2); X }; X#endif X }; X lastchar = DELETE; X }; X }; X X#ifndef MSG X comfile = open(fnam, O_RDWR); X#else X msgenab(); X#endif X X#endif X sigset(SIGINT, leave); X /* X * New game starts here X */ X game = 0; X instruct(); X while ((game == 0) && (tries++ < 300)) X { X poll(1); X }; X if (tries >= 300) X { X /* I give up. Let's call it quits. */ X leave(); X }; X goldcnt = GOLDCNT; X pscore = 0; X clr(); X} X X/* X * poll -- read characters sent by input subprocess and set global flags X */ X Xpoll(sltime) X{ X int stop; X register int charcnt; X int junk; X X#ifndef NODELAY X#ifdef MSG X struct mstruct msghead; X#endif X#endif X X stop = 0; Xreadin: X X#ifdef NODELAY X fflush(stdout); X charcnt = 0; X nap(12); X#ifdef FIONREAD X ioctl(0, FIONREAD, &junk); X if (junk) X#endif X charcnt = read(0, combuf, 1); X switch (charcnt) X { X X case 0: X combuf[1] = EMPTY; X break; X X case -1: X errgen("READ ERROR IN POLL"); X abort(); X X default: X combuf[0] = combuf[charcnt-1]; X combuf[1] = FULL; X break; X }; X#else X X#ifdef MSG X combuf[1] = (recv(combuf, 1, &msghead, 0) == -1) ? EMPTY : FULL; X#else X lseek(comfile, 0l, 0); /* rewind */ X read(comfile, combuf, 2); /* read 2 chars */ X#endif X X#endif X if (combuf[1] == EMPTY) X { X#ifndef BELL30 X X#ifndef NODELAY X if (sltime > 0) X { X sleep(sltime); X }; X#endif X X#endif X if (stop) X { X goto readin; X }; X return; X }; X combuf[1] = EMPTY; X X#ifndef NODELAY X X#ifndef MSG X lseek(comfile, 0l, 0); /* another rewind */ X write(comfile, combuf, 2); X#endif X#endif X X switch(combuf[0] & 0177) X { X case LEFT: X pacptr->dirn = DLEFT; X break; X X case RIGHT: X pacptr->dirn = DRIGHT; X break; X X case NORTH: X case NNORTH: X pacptr->dirn = DUP; X break; X X case DOWN: X case NDOWN: X pacptr->dirn = DDOWN; X break; X X case HALT: X pacptr->dirn = DNULL; X break; X X case ABORT: X case DELETE: X case QUIT: X over(); X break; X X case CNTLS: X stop = 1; X goto readin; X X case GAME1: X game = 1; X break; X X case GAME2: X game = 2; X break; X X case GAME3: X game = 3; X break; X X case GAME4: X game = 4; X break; X X default: X goto readin; X } X} X Xvsinit() X{ X char buf[1024], *tp; X static char tspace[512]; X char *aoftspace; X char *tgetstr(); X extern char *UP, *BC; /* defined in tgoto.c (from ex's termlib */ X extern char PC; /* defined in tputs.c (from termlib) */ X X tgetent(buf, getenv("TERM")); X aoftspace = tspace; X vs_cl = tgetstr("cl", &aoftspace); X vs_cm = tgetstr("cm", &aoftspace); X BC = tgetstr("bc", &aoftspace); X UP = tgetstr("up", &aoftspace); X if ((tp = tgetstr("pc", &aoftspace)) != NULL) X PC = *tp; X vs_rows = tgetnum("li"); X vs_cols = tgetnum("co"); X/* what total crap .. kre X vs_vb = tgetstr("vb", &aoftspace); X if ((vs_vb == 0) || (*vs_vb == '\0')) X { X vs_vb = aoftspace; X *vs_vb++ = ''; X *vs_vb++ = '\0'; X aoftspace += 2; X }; X*/ X if ((vs_cl == 0) || (*vs_cl == '\0') || X (vs_cm == 0) || (*vs_cm == '\0')) X { X (void) fprintf(stderr, "\nPacman is designed for CRT's with addressable cursors.\n"); X (void) fprintf(stderr, "Verify that the TERM environment variable is a proper\n"); X (void) fprintf(stderr, "type and is export-ed, and try it again...\n\n"); X exit(2); X }; X} X Xgetrand(range) X int range; X{ X register unsigned int q; X X q = rand(); X return(q % range); X} X X X/* dfp - real function for tputs function to use */ Xputch( ch ) X register int ch; X{ X putchar( ch ); X} END-of-./util.c echo x - ./pacman.6 sed 's/^X//' >./pacman.6 << 'END-of-./pacman.6' X.\" X.\" @(#)pacman.6 X.\" X.Dd "March 18, 1995" X.Dt PACMAN 6 X.Os X.Sh NAME X.Nm pacman X.Nd the game of pacman X.Sh SYNOPSIS X.Nm X.Sh DESCRIPTION XThe X.Nm Xcommand runs display-based game which must be played on a CRT terminal. XThe object is to eat and not get eaten. X.Pp XThe default control keys are as follows: X.Bl -tag -width "" -compact -offset indent X.It l Xmove right X.It h Xmove left X.It j Xmove down X.It k Xmove up X.It Xpause X.It q Xquit X.El X.Sh PLAY XUse the direction keys to move your critter about the maze. Eat Xas many gold coins as you can. Aim for treasure and eat them for extra Xpoints. Avoid the monsters. X.Sh SCORING XYou score a point each time your critter eats a gold coin. You score Xtwenty points for eating treasure and ten points for eating monsters. X.Sh FILES X.Bl -tag -width indent X.It /var/games/pacman.scores Xhigh score file X.El X.Sh BUGS XThis man page does not completely describe the game. X.Sh AUTHORS XOriginally written by Dave Nixon, AGS Computers Inc., July, 1981. X.Pp XTerminal handling for video games taken from aliens, written by Jude XMiller, fall 1979. X.Pp XScore keeping modified and general terminal handling from UCB's ex Xadded by Rob Coben, BTL, June, 1980. END-of-./pacman.6 exit From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 22:24:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA04745 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:24:53 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA04739; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:24:51 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: ultrastor 34f To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:24:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: dleeds@eagle.ais.net, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503200437.VAA01834@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Mar 19, 95 09:37:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 317 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of course we could always break it for you if you wish :) > > : I want to know if the ultrastor 34f controller (scsi-2) VL will work with > : freebsd, I heard it does, but want to know if it is stable and works > : well before I buy it. > > Rock solid stable since about version 1.0 GAMMA or so. > > Warner > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 22:53:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA06113 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:53:47 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA06105 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:53:45 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA29020; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:53:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199503200653.WAA29020@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Carlos Antonio Ruggiero cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 1995 00:31:00 +0700." <261D8B56D39F009C1D@IFQSC.SC.USP.BR> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:53:29 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Hi everybody, > >I'm having problems with my Adaptec 2940 and 950210 SNAP. I understand >the ahc0 is still in the development phase but maybe someone can help me. > >I have a Pentium machine with 3 IDE disk driven by a Promise IDE controller. >No problems here. Recently I bought a Quantum Empire 2100 (2 G) and a 2940 >controller. I am running 2.0 Release which seems to be working really >fine (congratulations to all!!). However, 2.0R doesn't have 2940 support >so I decided to try the snap version on my new Empire disk. It seems >to work all right though getting the disk correctly probed during boot phase >is kind of tricky (what i do is: 1) Boot DOS with adaptec drivers 2) >Boot FreeBSD 950210snap. The system boots from the scsi drive but the Quantum >disk is not recognized and i have to reset the machine to stop the >error messages about the 15th device in the scsi bus ??? 3) Boot SNAP again >and voila: everything works fine). Last week, i bought an Exabyte 4200 >DAT device and connected it to the scsi bus. The system boots all right >if I follow the procedure above (except that, during step 2, >the machine doesn't give me any error messages, it just hangs...). >If I try to backup something to the DAT, mainly from the scsi disk, the system >panics randomly after a few megabytes (it lasts much longer when data comes >from the IDEs disks but it also panics..) I tried current (950317) >with no success: the system can't get past the probe phase. It hangs trying >to probe the scsi devices. My questions are: > >1) Is there anybody else having similar problems? I read something in this >list about panics and about the 2940 but cant remember what :-) Are these >problems related? > >2) Is there any possibility my Exabyte tape is not behaving correctly? It >does seem to work fine in DOS but my partitions there are quite small... > >3) Is there anything I can do to help debugging the 2940 driver (if you think >the problem is there)? > >4) Would the panic message help to find out what the problem is? > >Thanks a lot, > >Toto > >toto@ifqsc.sc.usp.br I've fixed this problem in -current. If you can rebuild a kernel, I'd suggest picking up the following files: ftp.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/i386/scsi/* ftp.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/pci/aic7870.c ftp.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/i386/isa/aic7770.c ftp.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/gnu/misc/aic7xxx/* -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 23:22:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA07304 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:22:29 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA07298 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:22:28 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Reference To: dcasba@rain.org (Tom Gray - DCA) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:21:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503200508.VAA20616@coyote.rain.org> from "Tom Gray - DCA" at Mar 19, 95 09:08:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 618 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, it's an interesting point.. it's actually a joke, but joerg isn't and english speaker by birth, and your jokes could often be misinterpretted if you made them in danish, or german, or... I think it was meant to be a semi-humourous prod, but didn't quite translate quite right. > > > > > The common answer to this is RTFM, but since you're not even able > > to *find* that f**** manual.... Try to start with the command > > ``man man''. > > Is it just me or does anyone else find this sort of reply offensive? he did give the right answer, after all. > Is this appropriate language for a public forum? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 23:44:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA09087 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:44:13 -0800 Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09075 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:44:12 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com Received: from localhost by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id XAA05204; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:42:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199503200742.XAA05204@netcom14.netcom.com> To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 19 Mar 95 17:32:56 -0500. Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 23:42:51 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The old soud sys was installed on 'top of' 2.0 -current. > Running a make depend uncovered some missing headers: > cc: ../../gnu/i386/scd.c: No such file or directory > ../../i386/i386/conf.c:245: matcd.h: No such file or directory > ../../i386/i386/conf.c:893: nic.h: No such file or directory > ../../i386/i386/conf.c:904: nnic.h: No such file or directory > This being the case it looks like its not practical for me to build vat > since it would require backing off to 2.0R. > Maybe the only issue in the way is the lack of the above files, what do > you think? Take from FreeBSD-current the file files.i386 and replace the references to i386/isa/sound/* with the ones in the old files.i386. Use the resulting new files.i386 which should have all the new files for FreeBSD-current plus the files use for the sound driver to build the kernel. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 23:47:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA09405 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:47:31 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09392 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:47:17 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA09790; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:39:53 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:39:53 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503200739.RAA09790@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >And with verboseboot it can look like: >> (aha0:3:0): "FUJITSU M2654S-512 010P" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 >> sd2(aha0:3:0): Direct-Access 1959MB with 4014054 512 byte sectors >> sd2(aha0:3:0): with 2179 cylinders, 21 heads, and 87 sectors/track. ^^ an average of 87.7 sectors per track. The cylinder after the last will contain 33021 sectors if you are foolish enough to to use this geometry... :-) Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 23:52:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA09841 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:52:44 -0800 Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09835 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:52:43 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com Received: from localhost by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id XAA05779; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:51:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199503200751.XAA05779@netcom14.netcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Reference In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 19 Mar 95 23:21:50 -0800. Date: Sun, 19 Mar 95 23:51:27 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, it's an interesting point.. > it's actually a joke, but joerg isn't and english speaker by birth, and > your jokes could often be misinterpretted if you made them in danish, > or german, or... > > Is it just me or does anyone else find this sort of reply offensive? > he did give the right answer, after all. > > Is this appropriate language for a public forum? > > It is not offensive is more like a Unix Sargent talking to a newly elisted private trying to snap him into action. My background is on VMS and and I switched to the Unix culture well I will not comment any further :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Mar 19 23:52:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA09833 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:52:42 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09827 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 23:52:40 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA00297; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:53:15 GMT Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:53:14 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: RPC portmapper problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't recall changing anything in my setup before my previous reboot, but my portmapper services are shot now. 'portmap' is started up by /etc/rc before any of the other daemons, and mountd doesn't report any problems with my /etc/exports file. If I try to NFS mount a filesystem from the other FreeBSD box (where everything works just fine), I'll get: NFS Portmap: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive Doing a 'showmount' gives me: RPC: Port mapper failureCan't do Mountdump rpc If I kill the portmap process and restart it, I get these messages (timestamp removed): aries portmap[252]: svc_run: - select failed: Invalid argument aries portmap[252]: run_svc returned unexpectedly aries /kernel: pid 252: portmap: uid 1: exited on signal 6 As I said, I was previously able to use NFS services between this machine and others on the local net. Any ideas? This machine is still running the 950210 snapshot with the only modification being the ncr.c and pci.c updates for Aries chipset motherboards. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 00:43:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13638 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 00:43:59 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13620 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 00:43:54 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA00434; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:44:20 GMT Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:44:19 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: RPC portmapper problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > > I don't recall changing anything in my setup before my previous > reboot, but my portmapper services are shot now. Okay, that's not *quite* right. ;-) I was fiddling around with some of the services in inetd.conf. Most of them are disabled anyway, but I had been playing with a fingerd wrapper. So my question is, what services does RPC depend on? Is there a minimum set that I need to leave running so I don't break stuff? I am able to issue RPC's from this machine now, but only after re-enabling every service. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 01:54:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA17790 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 01:54:01 -0800 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA17749 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 01:53:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (amurai@localhost) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) id SAA22314 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:49:35 +0900 From: Atsushi MURAI Message-Id: <199503200949.SAA22314@specgw.spec.co.jp> Subject: FYI: DHCP server available To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:49:34 +0900 (JST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 12435 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all. Today I get a information regarding with DHCP server release announcement by WIDE project in JAPAN. It's not directly supported for FreeBSD2.x but I can compile with "-DBSDOS" flags when compiling. You can get this package "ftp://sh.wide.ad.jp/WIDE/free-ware/dhcp/dhcp-1.2.1.tar.gz" by anon. Note that you may think it's ported to FreeBSD2.x as ready to run, but they seem to want control and maintenance as centrised. Another word, Allow re-distribution with *no modification* any file includes this package. Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai Email : amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. ----------------------------- cut from here --------------------------- ========================================================================== READ THE FOLLOWING LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE INSTALLING AND/OR USING THE SOFTWARE. By installing and/or using the software, you indicate your acceptance of the following "Usage and Redistribution License Agreement of the WIDE Project DHCP Implementation Package" ("Agreement"). If you do not agree to the terms of this Agreement, promptly delete the software from your computer and cease use of the software. ====================================================================== Usage and Redistribution License Agreement of the WIDE Project DHCP Implementation Package February 1995. (1) The Usage and Redistiribution License Agreement of the WIDE Project DHCP Implementation Package permits you to make and use an unlimited number of copies of the WIDE Project DHCP software package identified (hereafter referred to as "SOFTWARE") for your internal use provided that: (a) the SOFTWARE is not modified in any way and (b) All copyright notices are maintained on every copy of the SOFTWARE. (2) The SOFTWARE (includes all source code, documentation, object files and any other files incorporated into the SOFTWARE) is owned by Akihiro Tominaga ("the AUTHOR") and WIDE Project and is protected by Japan copyright laws and international treaty provisions. You may not rent or lease the SOFTWARE, but you may redistribute the SOFTWARE provided you do not make any modifications to the SOFTWARE. (3) You may not use or include this SOFTWARE in whole or in part for any of your software products. Commercial use of the SOFTWARE requires specific permission from both the author and the WIDE Project. You must contact the WIDE Project if you wish to use the SOFTWARE for your product. You may not use the SOFTWARE and the name of the WIDE Project in advertising or publicity pertaining to the SOFTWARE and documentation without specific, written prior authorization. (4) You may modify the source code of the SOFTWARE only for your internal use. You may not distribute your modifications to the SOFTWARE. Your modifications must be notified to the WIDE Project. (5) NO WARRANTIES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE WIDE PROJECT AND THE AUTHOR OF THE SOFTWARE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILTIY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. NEITHER THE WIDE PROJECT NOR THE AUTHOR OF THE SOFTWARE SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, LOST PROFITS OR INFORMATION, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, OR OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS, EVEN IF THE WIDE PROJECT AND THE AUTHOR HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THE WIDE PROJECT AND THE AUTHOR OF THE SOFTWARE MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY OF THIS SOFTWARE AND DOCUMENTATION FOR ANY PURPOSE WITHOUT EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY. ----------------------------- End of Licence ------------------------------ << DHCP WIDE-Implementation, version 1.2 >> Feburuary, 1995. This package is a distribution kit of DHCP WIDE-Implementation version 1.2. DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) is a protocol which provides informations to computer when it boots [1-4]. This release includes DHCP server, relay agent, and two different implementations of client. See "LICENSE" included in this directory. Also, portions of this software may fall under the copyrights which are included the end of this file. These are included corresponded source code files: You can find following files and directories, if you extract this package. o Acknowledgements o BUGS supplementary description o BUGS.jis supplementary description (in Japanese) o LICENSE license aggreement o README This File o README.jis This File (in Japanese) o db_sample includes Tutorial and samples of configuration files o fsm_client DHCP client (finite state machine version) o library_client Client library (includes only library) o relay DHCP relay agent o sample_client includes a sample implementation of client which uses library o server DHCP server o tools DHCP packet monitoring tool (this program is very dirty. Just for debugging) You can read the source code of the FSM version client more easily than the library version. But when you want to make peculiar client, it may be convenient. Currently, we confirm operation on BSD/386 1.1, BSD/OS 2.0, NEWS-OS 4.2, SunOS 4.1.3 and FreeBSD 1.1.5.1. Also it will be very easy to port them to another OS which has bpf (Berkeley Packet Filter). Please refer to README of each directory about the instruction of installation. If you have a question about this distrubution and find a bug, please send e-mail to dhcp-dist@wide.ad.jp. [1] R. Droms, "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol", draft-ietf-dhc-dhcp-00.txt [2] W. Wimer, "Clarifications and Extensions for the Bootstrap Protocol", RFC1542. [3] S. Alexander, R. Droms, "DHCP Options and BOOTP Vendor Extensions", RFC1533. [4] R. Droms, "Interoperation Between DHCP and BOOTP", RFC1534. ***** 1 ***** Copyright (c) 1987, 1989 Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. This code is derived from software contributed to Berkeley by Arthur David Olson of the National Cancer Institute. Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met: 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes software developed by the University of California, Berkeley and its contributors. 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. ***** 2 ***** Copyright (c) 1990, 1992 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that: (1) source code distributions retain the above copyright notice and this paragraph in itsentirety, (2) distributions including binary code include the above copyright notice and this paragraph in its entirety in the documentation or other materials provided with the distribution, and (3) all advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software display the following acknowledgement: ``This product includes software developed by the University of California, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory and its contributors.'' Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED ``AS IS'' AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. ***** 3 ***** Copyright (c) 1983, 1989 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met: 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software must display the following acknowledgement: This product includes software developed by the University of California, Berkeley and its contributors. 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. ***** 4 ***** Copyright (c) 1988 by Carnegie Mellon. Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this program for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided that this copyright and permission notice appear on all copies and supporting documentation, the name of Carnegie Mellon not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of the program without specific prior permission, and notice be given in supporting documentation that copying and distribution is by permission of Carnegie Mellon and Stanford University. Carnegie Mellon makes no representations about the suitability of this software for any purpose. It is provided "as is" without express or implied warranty. ***** 5 ***** Copyright (c) 1988 by Carnegie Mellon. Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this program for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided that this copyright and permission notice appear on all copies and supporting documentation, the name of Carnegie Mellon not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of the program without specific prior permission, and notice be given in supporting documentation that copying and distribution is by permission of Carnegie Mellon. Carnegie Mellon makes no representations about the suitability of this software for any purpose. It is provided "as is" without express or implied warranty. ************* ---------------------------- End of README ----------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 02:03:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA18285 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 02:03:15 -0800 Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA18272 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 02:03:09 -0800 Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.11/1.63) id LAA11947; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:02:15 +0100 From: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199503201002.LAA11947@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Subject: Re: restore times veryyyy long To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:02:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: guido@IAEhv.nl, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503200213.EAA03300@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Mar 20, 95 04:13:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 774 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu wrote: > > What drive you have? We have got a WangDAT 3400DX and see similar problem, > about 12KB/s read performance, while writes work normally. The same drive > on a Sun SS10 works considerably better even though it is slower reading > than writing. Both Buslogic 445S and Adaptek 1542 behave similarly. > Restores have been so infrequent that I haven't had time to look at this > more closely, but it might be useful to get it solved. > > We also saw cache getting disabled on a HP drive, apparently by changing We do have an HP...: ncr0 targ 4 lun 0: > from read to write or vice versa, don't remember any more which way it was. > I understood that this was a bug in the drive. > Anyone can confirm this? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 03:20:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA21672 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 03:20:03 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA21656 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 03:18:46 -0800 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA25215; Mon, 20 Mar 95 03:17:23 -0800 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0rqf96-0005P7C; Mon, 20 Mar 95 11:57 MEZ Message-Id: To: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com Subject: tgdb_wish (was Graphical frontend for gdb) Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 10:57:11 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio wrote yesterday that tgdb_wish was not in incoming oon freefall. I've just copied it into my home directory on freefall. You can find it under ~gj/tgdb_wish-freebsd_static.tar.gz This has all the FreeBSD specific stuff to run tgdb. The rest can be found on any Linux archive. Enjoy. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 04:31:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA24692 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 04:31:20 -0800 Received: from regen.dkrz.de (regen.dkrz.de [136.172.60.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA24686 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 04:31:18 -0800 X400-Received: by /PRMD=dkrz/ADMD=d400/C=de/; Relayed; 20 Mar 95 13:26:20+0100 Date: 20 Mar 95 13:26:20+0100 From: Heiner Strauss Message-ID: <9503201226.AA01305@chinook.dkrz.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sound Card recomendations? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But don't rely on Fry's having any GUS cards! Since you are > > not local to the Bay area you may want to try mail order > > places. You should be able to get the GUS MAX for under > > $139. > > If you can really get 'em this cheap, count me in for one. Maybe > a group purchase should be put together? > > Jordan > Please put me in this group too. I couldn't find this card in my area. Heiner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 05:13:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA25683 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 05:13:46 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA25667; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 05:13:23 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA18103; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:07:41 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:07:41 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503201307.XAA18103@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imp@village.org, julian@tfs.com Subject: Re: ultrastor 34f Cc: dleeds@eagle.ais.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Of course we could always break it for you if you wish :) >> : I want to know if the ultrastor 34f controller (scsi-2) VL will work with >> : freebsd, I heard it does, but want to know if it is stable and works >> : well before I buy it. >> >> Rock solid stable since about version 1.0 GAMMA or so. It's broken enough already. I used these patches (by John Mackin) in 1.1.5 and in 2.x to fix the handling of sense errors. Without these patches, the driver happily reads and writes to nonexistent media and beyond EOF on tapes (as if from and to /dev/zero). I don't know anything about the hardware so I can't check the changes. Bruce *** ultra14f.c~ Fri Mar 17 20:22:18 1995 --- ultra14f.c Fri Mar 17 20:22:55 1995 *************** *** 634,641 **** * into the xfer and call whoever started it */ ! if ((mscp->ha_status == UHA_NO_ERR) || (xs->flags & SCSI_ERR_OK)) { /* All went correctly OR errors expected */ ! xs->resid = 0; ! xs->error = 0; ! } else { s1 = &(mscp->mscp_sense); --- 634,639 ---- * into the xfer and call whoever started it */ ! if (((mscp->ha_status != UHA_NO_ERR) || (mscp->targ_status != SCSI_OK)) ! && ((xs->flags & SCSI_ERR_OK) == 0)) { s1 = &(mscp->mscp_sense); *************** *** 644,650 **** if (mscp->ha_status != UHA_NO_ERR) { switch (mscp->ha_status) { ! case UHA_SBUS_TIMEOUT: /* No response */ SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ! ("timeout reported back\n")); xs->error = XS_TIMEOUT; break; --- 642,650 ---- if (mscp->ha_status != UHA_NO_ERR) { switch (mscp->ha_status) { ! case UHA_SBUS_ABORT_ERR: ! case UHA_SBUS_TIMEOUT: /* No sel response */ SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ! ("abort or timeout; ha_status 0x%x\n", ! mscp->ha_status)); xs->error = XS_TIMEOUT; break; *************** *** 654,685 **** xs->error = XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP; break; - case UHA_BAD_SG_LIST: - SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, - ("bad sg list reported back\n")); - xs->error = XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP; - break; default: /* Other scsi protocol messes */ xs->error = XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP; ! SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ! ("unexpected ha_status: %x\n", ! mscp->ha_status)); } } else { ! ! if (mscp->targ_status != 0) ! /* ! * I have no information for any possible value of target status field ! * other than 0 means no error!! So I guess any error is unexpected in that ! * event!! ! */ ! ! { ! SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ! ("unexpected targ_status: %x\n", ! mscp->targ_status)); xs->error = XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP; } } ! } done: xs->flags |= ITSDONE; --- 654,689 ---- xs->error = XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP; break; default: /* Other scsi protocol messes */ xs->error = XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP; ! printf("uha%d: unexpected ha_status 0x%x (target status 0x%x)\n", ! unit, mscp->ha_status, ! mscp->targ_status); ! break; } } else { ! /* Target status problem */ ! SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("target err 0x%x\n", ! mscp->targ_status)); ! switch (mscp->targ_status) { ! case 0x02: ! *s2 = *s1; ! xs->error = XS_SENSE; ! break; ! case 0x08: ! xs->error = XS_BUSY; ! break; ! default: ! printf("uha%d: unexpected targ_status 0x%x\n", ! unit, mscp->targ_status); xs->error = XS_DRIVER_STUFFUP; + break; } } ! } ! else { ! /* All went correctly OR errors expected */ ! xs->resid = 0; ! xs->error = 0; ! } done: xs->flags |= ITSDONE; From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 05:51:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA26124 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 05:51:54 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA26115 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 05:50:59 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA18117; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:22:33 +0100 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 14:22:33 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503191322.OAA18117@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, PVinci@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [Question] C++ & BSD? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a C++ compiler for FreeBSD? vector csh ttypa 13 % c++ c++: No input files specified. vector csh ttypa 14 % c++ --version 2.6.3 vector csh ttypa 16 % uname -a FreeBSD vector 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Sat Feb 18 19:08:42 MEZ 1995 jhs@vector:/usr2/data/src/sys/compile/VECTOR i386 > can C++ modules be compiled/linked with existing FreeBSD Code?? I believe groff uses C++, & we have src/gnu/usr.bin/ngroff/___lots_of_stuff___ > If so, How?? I suggest you install FreeBSD & try it yourself ! Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 06:06:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA26287 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:06:54 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA26267 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:05:02 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.enet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA23547; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:59:27 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:59:27 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503161459.PAA23547@vector.enet> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw Subject: Re: install compressed binary patch Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Brian Tao Re. ----- Isn't this sort of duality the same issue found with symbolic links? Sometimes you want what the link points to, and sometimes you want the link itself? ----- Yup, I was looking for something like that in `test' to use in my sys/Makefile stuff, but man test offers no such facility. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 06:09:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA26335 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:09:29 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA26314 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:08:53 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA15422; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:43:20 +0100 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 13:43:20 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503191243.NAA15422@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: bde@zeta.org.au, dufault@hda.com Subject: Re: Multiport serial cards Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Re. > is there an AST/8, or other 8 port 16550 board that works > with the "sio" driver? There will be at least two other light duty > serial ports for this application. An AST/4 plus COM1 and COM2 > will do it, but I would just as soon identify another path. I use an 8 serial card with 16450s, seems to me it'd be trivial to chop them off, solder suck the pads, & solder on 16550s .... whay I use is this: # Card Name: Decision 8801. # Manufacturer: Decision Computer Int. Co., Ltd. # Comment: 8 Port Hardware documented in /sys/i386/isa/isa_8com.h # 8 * NS16450N, Selectable: irq 2,irq 3,irq 4,irq 5,irq 6,irq 7. options "COM_MULTIPORT" # Multiport support in sys/isa/sio.c device sio0 at isa? port 0x2A0 tty flags 0x0301 # irq 4 device sio1 at isa? port 0x2A8 tty flags 0x0301 # irq 4 device sio2 at isa? port 0x2B0 tty flags 0x0301 # irq 4 device sio3 at isa? port 0x2B8 tty irq 4 flags 0x0301 vector siointr device sio4 at isa? port 0x1a0 tty flags 0x0701 # irq 5 device sio5 at isa? port 0x1a8 tty flags 0x0701 # irq 5 device sio6 at isa? port 0x1b0 tty flags 0x0701 # irq 5 device sio7 at isa? port 0x1b8 tty irq 5 flags 0x0701 vector siointr I have more info in my /sys/i386/isa/isa_8com.h which I can mail you, if you want. (The card was about 300 DM about 3 years ago, (2.35 DM ~ 1 UK Sterling) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 06:13:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA26426 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:13:06 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA26281 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:06:52 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.enet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA23511; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:39:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:39:29 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503161439.PAA23511@vector.enet> To: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: BSD Consortium Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Re Consortium ... > what goals would you personally put forth? YAWN .. BORED ! I wish this discussion was not here in this list ! I suggest we create a list called tmp@freebsd.org subscription to this list should be open, not moderated, ( to save postmaster at freefall any effort ) List to be used for discussion of any short term flavour of the month topic that starts to bore many of us, whilst continuing to interest many others. It is a poor defense of a thread to maintain it would die if moved to a seperate list, `consortium' is getting boring for lots of us here I suspect, & it won't be the last thread that starts to bore, so lets have tmp@freebsd. PS feel free to call the new list whateve you want: other@freebsd.org, short-term@freebsd.org, tail-end-discussions@freebsd.org.. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 06:14:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA26464 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:14:31 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA26300 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 06:07:44 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.enet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA23531; Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:56:32 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:56:32 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503161456.PAA23531@vector.enet> To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: cpio bug ? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Paul Richards Uhh, I think he meant we could just start using it for release work, not actually replace the cpio and tar binaries, though that should be a longer term goal. ---- Not convinced, no doubt gnu tar will continue to grow, & unless we have a guarantee that pax will quickly emulate every gtar nuance .... Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 07:22:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA28172 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 07:22:12 -0800 Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA28166 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 07:22:08 -0800 Received: by plains.NoDak.edu; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:21:26 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:21:26 -0600 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199503201521.AA11221@plains.NoDak.edu> To: TOTO@ifqsc.sc.usp.br, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If I try to backup something to the DAT, mainly from the scsi disk, the system > panics randomly after a few megabytes (it lasts much longer when data comes > from the IDEs disks but it also panics..) I am not sure this will help you, but I have a Adaptec 1542 and a Sony DAT. FreeBSD 2.x is a lot more picky about DAT use than FreeBSD 1.x, namely it does not like extremely large blocksizes. The problems I had were in reading a tape with dd or restore that was created with large blocksizes causes the system to panic. tar is a little more stable. try: /sbin/dump 0usdf 3940 61000 /dev/nrst0 /dev/rsd0a --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 08:33:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA29795 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 08:33:48 -0800 Received: from relay4.UU.NET (relay4.UU.NET [192.48.96.14]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA29787 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 08:33:47 -0800 Received: from news.cs.utexas.edu by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyhxa11200; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:33:29 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (root@mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by news.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA11154; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:33:19 -0600 Received: from uudell.us.dell.com (uudell.us.dell.com [143.166.224.6]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA15216; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:33:18 -0600 Received: from obiwan by uudell.us.dell.com (5.67/dns1.3) with UUCP id AA20977; Sun, 19 Mar 95 18:43:29 GMT Received: by obiwan.uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rqPlW-00031IC; Sun, 19 Mar 95 12:31 CST Message-Id: From: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: amurai@spec.co.jp (Atsushi MURAI) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 12:31:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: dufault@hda.com, pst@Shockwave.COM, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503191058.TAA17212@specgw.spec.co.jp> from "Atsushi MURAI" at Mar 19, 95 07:58:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 926 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Atsushi MURAI wrote: > > > > bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 > > > bt0: targ 1 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 > > > bt0: targ 4 async > > > bt0: targ 6 async > > It's a common information for SCSI bus by each target and card. So I > will recommend these information should be saved into common > strucuture and and then "scbus" routine show with device identify > later. But I prefer to see this information at boot time and by dmesg > command because when I supporting a people, it's easy. I agree very strongly with Atsushi on this. I use these as visible evidence that all the negotiations are going as I expected. Without them you're left in the dark. -- Bob Willcox ...!{rutgers|ames}!cs.utexas.edu!uudell!obiwan!bob Austin, TX or: @uudell.us.dell.com:obiwan!bob 512-258-4224 (home), 512-838-3914 (work) or: obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 08:49:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA00300 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 08:49:23 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA00294 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 08:49:21 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id LAA00477; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:45:31 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199503201645.LAA00477@hda.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:45:30 -0500 (EST) Cc: amurai@spec.co.jp, pst@Shockwave.COM, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Bob Willcox" at Mar 19, 95 12:31:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1513 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bob Willcox writes: > > Atsushi MURAI wrote: > > > > > > bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 > > > > bt0: targ 1 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 > > > > bt0: targ 4 async > > > > bt0: targ 6 async > > > > It's a common information for SCSI bus by each target and card. So I > > will recommend these information should be saved into common > > strucuture and and then "scbus" routine show with device identify > > later. But I prefer to see this information at boot time and by dmesg > > command because when I supporting a people, it's easy. > > I agree very strongly with Atsushi on this. I use these as visible evidence > that all the negotiations are going as I expected. Without them you're left > in the dark. There wasn't any proposal to remove this. I made an observation that it would be nice to add a "report anything you need to about this target" call to the host adapter code so that the sample logs were deferred until the same time as the SCSI system was matching up drivers. That is, something like: > (bt0:1:0): "FUJITSU M2266S-512 001D" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 1029MB with 2107704 512 byte sectors > bt0: targ 1 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 That way everything about target 1 is printed in one place. I'm not planning on doing anything like this. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 09:24:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA00803 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:24:49 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA00757; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:23:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02980; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:21:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199503201721.KAA02980@rover.village.org> To: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: ultrastor 34f Cc: julian@tfs.com, dleeds@eagle.ais.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:07:41 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:21:14 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : It's broken enough already. I used these patches (by John Mackin) in 1.1.5 : and in 2.x to fix the handling of sense errors. Without these patches, the : driver happily reads and writes to nonexistent media and beyond EOF on : tapes (as if from and to /dev/zero). I don't know anything about the : hardware so I can't check the changes. And I thought that it was just the SCSI subsytem that did this, or that my "known rogue" (Archive 150) had something to do with it. :-( I'll have to build a new kernel and test this out..... Thanks Bruce Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 09:42:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01062 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:42:20 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01056 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:42:17 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA02256; Mon, 20 Mar 95 10:35:37 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503201735.AA02256@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: SMP work To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 10:35:36 MST Cc: dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503182206.OAA22038@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 18, 95 02:06:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think that the locking model to be used should be discussed amongst > us, as there are several alternatives. I have no firm opinions on this > issue. There are two books I recommend for a discussion of the locking model: UNIX Systems for Modern Architectures -- Schimmel The Magic Garden Explained There's a third one coming out from Prentice Hall called (tentatively) "UNIX Internals: The New Frontier". I don't have a release date on it yet. > It wouldn't be SMP if they had separate buses now would it :-). The > ISA/EISA/PCI buses and cache and memory are shared by 2 CPU chips. Actually, you can do loosely coupled SMP using a PCI/PCI bridge, per the standards. I don't know if anyone had built a board that could handle this yet. > These APIC's can be used for sending Interter Processor Interrupts, > that is how you start the second CPU up. They also allow you to control > which CPU gets which interrupts. You can prefer certain interrupts to > certain CPU's or you can have it dispatch the interrupt to the lowest > priority CPU, etc etc.. Since the APIC is built into the CPU the you > don't have the high I/O latency of talking to things like 8259's to > control them. On the other hand, it's two bus cycles instead of one for a grant with this type of arbitration. On the third hand (8-).), single cycle arbitration requires the use of ASICs that limit the number of processers you can use without geometrically increasing the amount of arbitration circuitry in your ASIC. > There is a paper on the Intel MP spec on ftp.intel.com. The file > name is mpspec.ps, but I forget what directory it is in. I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I reported it to their FTP person. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 10:02:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01415 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:02:41 -0800 Received: from dvals1.larc.nasa.gov (dvals1.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.4.96]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA01409 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:02:39 -0800 Received: by dvals1.larc.nasa.gov (8.6.11/server2.4) id MAA27489; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:59:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199503201759.MAA27489@dvals1.larc.nasa.gov> From: Branson Matheson Subject: Re: BSD Consortium To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:59:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503161439.PAA23511@vector.enet> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Mar 16, 95 03:39:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1858 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Re Consortium ... > > > what goals would you personally put forth? > > YAWN .. BORED ! I wish this discussion was not here in this list ! I think that this is a discussion that _should_ belong on the list. I have interest in such discussions and should not have to belong to another list. If this becomes a reality then it certianly should be another list. But in the mean time... this list reaches a great many people that are interested in such a suggestion.... so the good of the many outweighs the good of the few ( or the one )... besides how hard is it to hit the 'd' key when you see the subject line ( that states it in obvious terms so that you do not even have to read the whole mail ) says BSD Consortium. > > I suggest we create a list called tmp@freebsd.org > subscription to this list should be open, not moderated, > ( to save postmaster at freefall any effort ) This is a bad thing.... this is the whole reason of having a mailing list... is to discuss such monthly issues. Besides ... who is going to subscribe to a list that is by it's very definition going to be cruft? No one... and so good ideas and issues will be lost to the whole. > > It is a poor defense of a thread to maintain it would die if moved to a > seperate list, `consortium' is getting boring for lots of us here I suspect, > & it won't be the last thread that starts to bore, so lets have tmp@freebsd. It is not boring for all of us and certianly not " lots of us" as the replies should have shown you. -branson -- MATHESON, E BRANSON E.B.MATHESON@LaRC.NASA.GOV Mail Stop 931 COMPUTER SCIENCES CORPORATION NASA Langley Research Center Assigned to Operations Support Division Hampton, VA 23681-0001 Phone +1 804 864-9700 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 10:19:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01863 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:19:35 -0800 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA01856 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:19:30 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA09246; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:34:34 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16120 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:16:42 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA22903 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:57:21 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA00782; Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:44:36 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199503191844.TAA00782@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Boot crash. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 19:44:35 +1596657 (MET) Cc: Gieger@aol.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503190910.KAA08138@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 19, 95 10:10:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 986 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ... It reboots & comes up with the BSD boot screen along with the "Boot:" > > prompt. If I hit return, type '?', type '/kernal-c' > > or anything it locks up. Normally there is a little twirling "|" symbol > > but it just prints "|" and locks solid. My bios geometry matches BSD, I did > > write the boot code. > > Looks like nothing from your root file system is being found. Either > of the above commands is trying to read something from there (`?' > attempts to read the directory, and the other commands want to read > the kernel file). > cheers, J"org I had something similar once. In my case the first superblock was gone... Fortunately, that was all that was wrong.. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 11:03:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03075 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:03:14 -0800 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03069 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:03:13 -0800 Received: from news.cs.utexas.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyhxk03032; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:02:54 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (root@mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by news.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA18723; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:02:55 -0600 Received: from uudell.us.dell.com (uudell.us.dell.com [143.166.224.6]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25541; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:02:54 -0600 Received: from obiwan by uudell.us.dell.com (5.67/dns1.3) with UUCP id AA06915; Mon, 20 Mar 95 18:56:36 GMT Received: by obiwan.uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rqlvy-0002zzC; Mon, 20 Mar 95 12:12 CST Message-Id: From: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: Multiport serial cards To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:12:05 -0600 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, dufault@hda.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503191243.NAA15422@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Mar 19, 95 01:43:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 822 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Julian Howard Stacey wrote: > > Re. > > is there an AST/8, or other 8 port 16550 board that works > > with the "sio" driver? There will be at least two other light duty > > serial ports for this application. An AST/4 plus COM1 and COM2 > > will do it, but I would just as soon identify another path. > > I use an 8 serial card with 16450s, > seems to me it'd be trivial to chop them off, solder suck the pads, > & solder on 16550s .... I have done this with 4-port cards. I suggest that you solder in sockets instead of 16550's though. Makes future changes alot easier ;-) -- Bob Willcox ...!{rutgers|ames}!cs.utexas.edu!uudell!obiwan!bob Austin, TX or: @uudell.us.dell.com:obiwan!bob 512-258-4224 (home), 512-838-3914 (work) or: obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 11:20:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03588 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:20:01 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03576 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:19:58 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA00799; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:16:42 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199503201916.OAA00799@hda.com> Subject: Re: SMP work To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:16:42 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9503201735.AA02256@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 20, 95 10:35:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 589 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: (...) > I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec > and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number > for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I > reported it to their FTP person. The file seems OK now. I haven't read every page but overall it appears intact. It is at ftp.intel.com:pub/IAL/software_specs/mpspec.ps. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 11:22:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03693 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:22:55 -0800 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03687 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:22:54 -0800 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id MAA01832 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:22:38 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199503201922.MAA01832@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: xview 3.2 buglet To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:22:38 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 231 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! xview/lib/libxview/textsw/ei_text.c defines ISCNTRL macro apparently expecting char (from CHAR) to be unsigned. Is it preferable to hack ISCNTRL to cast appropriately? Or define char to be unsigned? Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 11:31:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03867 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:31:07 -0800 Received: from hubbub.cisco.com (hubbub.cisco.com [198.92.30.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03861 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:31:06 -0800 Received: from feta.cisco.com (feta.cisco.com [171.69.1.158]) by hubbub.cisco.com (8.6.10/CISCO.GATE.1.1) with SMTP id LAA03550; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 11:30:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199503201930.LAA03550@hubbub.cisco.com> To: nate@trout.sri.mt.net (Nate Williams) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Graphical interface to gdb? In-reply-to: nate@trout.sri.mt.net's message of 16 Mar 1995 12:28:30 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 11:30:07 PST From: Paul Traina Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Cygnus made an announcement about this a while ago, and I remember > hearing that the newest version of UPS was going to use gdb for the > front end, but I haven't heard anything since. Yes, I have a snapshot of the work in progress and it's a very nice UI, unfortunately the current cygnus base sources for gdb are no longer working with FreeBSD-current and I have yet to fix things. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 12:04:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA04626 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:04:07 -0800 Received: from gallium.csusb.edu (gallium.csusb.edu [139.182.6.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA04619 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:03:53 -0800 Received: by gallium.csusb.edu (5.4.1/140.2) id AA02801; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:02:45 -0800 From: karant@gallium.csusb.edu (Dr. Yasha Karant) Message-Id: <9503202002.AA02801@gallium.csusb.edu> Subject: ISPs To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:02:45 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 528 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I realize that this is not really the appropriate mailing list for this question; however, I have not been able to find a NNTP group on this subject (my fault). One of my students wishes to setup a bbs on the Internet. Since this is *not* an official university project, he needs to contact an ISP to allow his machine (FreeBSD-based) access. Does anyone have a list of commercial ISPs? In particular, we need an ISP willing to serve San Bernardino, CA USA. Thanks for any responses. Yasha Karant karant@gallium.csusb.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 13:33:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06832 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:33:40 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06796 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:33:23 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA28893 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:34:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199503202134.OAA28893@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:21:26 CST." <199503201521.AA11221@plains.NoDak.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:34:25 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> If I try to backup something to the DAT, mainly from the scsi disk, the system >> panics randomly after a few megabytes (it lasts much longer when data comes >> from the IDEs disks but it also panics..) > I am not sure this will help you, but I have a Adaptec 1542 and a Sony DAT. > FreeBSD 2.x is a lot more picky about DAT use than FreeBSD 1.x, namely it does > not like extremely large blocksizes. The problems I had were in reading a tape > with dd or restore that was created with large blocksizes causes the system to > panic. tar is a little more stable. try: > /sbin/dump 0usdf 3940 61000 /dev/nrst0 /dev/rsd0a Hello, I too have problems with 4mmDAT and dump/restore. I am using an Adaptec 1542B and an HP 1533A DDS-2 4mmDAT. In my case I can "dump 0f /dev/rst0 /dev/sd0x" a tape, but "restore isf 1 /dev/rst0" panics immediately. I tried the above incantation and it works! However I could not see how it limited blocksize (recordsize). If I read it right it sets the number of feet on the tape to 3940 and the tape density to 61000 BPI. Examinging the code (950210-SNAP) I found that a side effect of setting density is to set the recordsize to 32 (1024 byte) blocks. Sure enough "dump 0bf 32 /dev/rst0 /dev/sd0a", "restore isf /dev/rst0" works. (at least it gets to the prompt without panicing.) Looked at the code, found several things wrong, but nothing to explain this. So I rebuilt restore with -g, and paniced from what looked like a gdb problem. This tickled my memory about panic problems with gdb. Can I get the gdb binary from freefall and expect it to work under 950210-SNAP? My network connectivity is BAD right now and sup'ing my system to -current is out of the question. I really am eager to track this problem down and fix for the 2.1 release! Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 14:24:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09853 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:24:36 -0800 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA09844 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:24:31 -0800 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <26420-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:57:04 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id TAA00318 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:30:19 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.2a) id TAA15395; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:27:18 +1000 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:27:18 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199503200927.TAA15395@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman writes; >>> As David Greenman wrote: >>> > The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. >>> >>> But then, there should also be a way to get around this. The super >>> user is assumed to know what he's doing -- and be it for the only >>> reason to save just one [apparently good] file out of a totally >>> damaged disk before newfs'ing it. >> >>Why would he need to mount it writeable for that ? > > Yes, this is why I said "writable" above. I would always want read-only to >work. ...but like I just said in a previous message, an option to force the >system to mount writable it wouldn't be unreasonable. If you don't provide this option, I'll just have to add it. Certainly a restriction on mounting dirty broken filesystems read/write would hamper my current attempt to reconstruct my severly damaged filesystems. It wouldn't make it impossible, just that bit more painful. Perhaps some weeks ago I would have agreed that writing to broken filesystems was pointless, but now that I'm up to my armpits in it, its just as handy as writing to healthy filesystems. The principle that (with suitable flags) root jolly well knows exactly what he/she is doing should be upheld until the bitter end. BTW, does anyone have any disk-cruising/filesystem-fixing programs that are friendlier than fsck? My 1.1 system went mad and overwrote every root directory and their superblocks and a good number of other (apparently) random blocks. I think I upset my tape drive while reading past EOD... Stephen. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 14:24:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09864 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:24:49 -0800 Received: from GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.91]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA09857 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:24:43 -0800 Received: from localhost by GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa17748; 20 Mar 95 17:24 EST To: Mark Tinguely cc: TOTO@ifqsc.sc.usp.br, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 20 Mar 1995 09:21:26 -0600. <199503201521.AA11221@plains.NoDak.edu> Reply-To: moto@CS.cmu.edu From: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:24:08 -0500 Message-ID: <17745.795738248@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, >>>>> " " == Mark Tinguely writes: >> If I try to backup something to the DAT, mainly from the scsi disk, >> the system panics randomly after a few megabytes (it lasts much >> longer when data comes from the IDEs disks but it also panics..) > I am not sure this will help you, but I have a Adaptec 1542 and a > Sony DAT. FreeBSD 2.x is a lot more picky about DAT use than > FreeBSD 1.x, namely it does not like extremely large > blocksizes. The problems I had were in reading a tape with dd or > restore that was created with large blocksizes causes the system to > panic. tar is a little more stable. try: > /sbin/dump 0usdf 3940 61000 /dev/nrst0 /dev/rsd0a I have a similar symptom with Exabyte 8205. Is there any way on FreeBSD 2.0 to restore from a tape created by 'dump 0uBf 2033646 /dev/rst0 /dev/sd0a' on FreeBSD 1.x? My 1.7G hard drive crashed and I deseprately need to restore it. Thanks! ============================================================================== Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 14:35:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10515 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:35:36 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10509 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:35:33 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA27099; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:35:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA02339; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:35:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199503202235.OAA02339@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Stephen McKay cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 95 19:27:18 +1000." <199503200927.TAA15395@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:35:23 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >David Greenman writes; >>>> As David Greenman wrote: >>>> > The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. >>>> >>>> But then, there should also be a way to get around this. The super >>>> user is assumed to know what he's doing -- and be it for the only >>>> reason to save just one [apparently good] file out of a totally >>>> damaged disk before newfs'ing it. >>> >>>Why would he need to mount it writeable for that ? >> >> Yes, this is why I said "writable" above. I would always want read-only to >>work. ...but like I just said in a previous message, an option to force the >>system to mount writable it wouldn't be unreasonable. > >If you don't provide this option, I'll just have to add it. Certainly a I should mention here that I don't intend to work on this before 2.1R. If people want the problem with mouting dirty filesystems to be handled better in 2.1R, then someone other than me needs to make these changes and send them to me. I'm far too busy dealing with kernel issues at the moment. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 14:55:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA12217 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:55:20 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA12211; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:55:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01706; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:53:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199503202253.OAA01706@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 19 Mar 1995 07:55:39 CST." <199503191356.HAA24644@bonkers.taronga.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:53:56 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Only the firmware used by the ahc driver (a single generated .h file). > >Which is enough according to the GPL. :-P > >How big is this firmware? >Can it be poked into the boot in a separate operation? >That would mean the kernel would have to use the BIOS to read it back, >wouldn't it? Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel (ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the firmware separately. -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 14:59:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA12396 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:59:24 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA12390 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:59:23 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01744; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:59:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199503202259.OAA01744@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Charles M. Hannum" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Mar 1995 09:19:31 EST." <199503181419.JAA22722@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:59:05 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I feel compelled to add something here... > > The first words from his mouth were anti Adaptec. Now I'm not the > greatest Adaptec fan, but I don't like their policy blown into > something it isn't. He basically said that they would not give enough > information out to program the cards without an NDA. > >That (mis)information originated from Julian Elischer. Julian said >many moons ago that Adaptec's policy was such, and for a long time it >was touted as the reason for not having a 2x42 driver. You can find >this in your own mail archives. > >(I thought I'd corrected that long ago, but it appears not.) The one thing I didn't understand was that it sounded like J.T. new about our driver since as soon as I said something about it, he remarked, "but your sequencer code is still GPL'd". Anyway, so long as everyone who reads this thread understands the current Adaptec policy, I'm happy. -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 15:10:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA13161 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:10:24 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA13154 for hackers; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:10:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:10:23 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199503202310.PAA13154@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: patch from newsgroup applicable.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk *** cut.c.orig Mon Mar 20 14:33:26 1995 --- cut.c Mon Mar 20 14:34:03 1995 *************** *** 218,224 **** int output; char lbuf[_POSIX2_LINE_MAX + 1]; ! for (sep = dchar, output = 0; fgets(lbuf, sizeof(lbuf), fp);) { for (isdelim = 0, p = lbuf;; ++p) { if (!(ch = *p)) err("%s: line too long.\n", fname); --- 218,225 ---- int output; char lbuf[_POSIX2_LINE_MAX + 1]; ! for (sep = dchar; fgets(lbuf, sizeof(lbuf), fp);) { ! output = 0; for (isdelim = 0, p = lbuf;; ++p) { if (!(ch = *p)) err("%s: line too long.\n", fname); test case: erf# cut -f2 -d: <; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:40:03 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id TAA01107; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:36:25 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199503210036.TAA01107@hda.com> Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:36:25 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503202253.OAA01706@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Mar 20, 95 02:53:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 857 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs writes: > > Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of > byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup > is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel > (ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works > without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure > for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to > read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the > firmware separately. You've helped the Linux people out a bit. Any chance the original author will place a version of the sequencer under BSD style copyright? Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 17:03:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA18322 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:03:49 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA18314; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:03:46 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03603; Mon, 20 Mar 95 17:04:11 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503210004.AA03603@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 17:04:10 MST Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503202253.OAA01706@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Mar 20, 95 02:53:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >How big is this firmware? > >Can it be poked into the boot in a separate operation? > >That would mean the kernel would have to use the BIOS to read it back, > >wouldn't it? > > Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of > byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup > is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel > (ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works > without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure > for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to > read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the > firmware separately. Probably the easiest approach is to chain-load it into a non-auto initialized area, the load the kernel, and have the kernel dump from that area to the sequencer. Basically this would mean either getting the V86 code working well enough to run a disk driver using IPC to the V86, or chain-loading in real mode. In other words, have the BIOS based boot blocks load a BIOS based loader in real mode instead of the kernel and put the protected mode switch in the kernel itself. Alternately, it may be possible to load a file "preinit" or whatever into < 640k and have the kernel use this as an IPC area between it and the boot blocks. Most of these soloutions are Bad(tm) because they mean more code in the boot blocks. Alternately, the BIOS is able to load the kernel in order to boot; this means that there is default sequencer code on the card, even if it is very ugly. Write a piddly driver to use that code to load the new code into the kernel once the root file system is up, then switch over to the driver that wants new code. For the purposes of binary distribution, it ought to be easier to either get the sequencer code un-GPL'ed, rewrite it, or someone sign a non-disclosure with Adaptec and write a binary driver distributed soley as .o files. 8-|. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 17:40:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA20338 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:40:29 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA20332; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:40:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02205; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:38:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199503210138.RAA02205@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:04:10 MST." <9503210004.AA03603@cs.weber.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:38:49 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >How big is this firmware? >> >Can it be poked into the boot in a separate operation? >> >That would mean the kernel would have to use the BIOS to read it back, >> >wouldn't it? >> >> Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of >> byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup >> is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel >> (ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works >> without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure >> for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to >> read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the >> firmware separately. > >Probably the easiest approach is to chain-load it into a non-auto >initialized area, the load the kernel, and have the kernel dump from >that area to the sequencer. > >Basically this would mean either getting the V86 code working well >enough to run a disk driver using IPC to the V86, or chain-loading >in real mode. > >In other words, have the BIOS based boot blocks load a BIOS based >loader in real mode instead of the kernel and put the protected mode >switch in the kernel itself. > >Alternately, it may be possible to load a file "preinit" or whatever >into < 640k and have the kernel use this as an IPC area between it >and the boot blocks. > >Most of these soloutions are Bad(tm) because they mean more code in >the boot blocks. > > >Alternately, the BIOS is able to load the kernel in order to boot; >this means that there is default sequencer code on the card, even if >it is very ugly. I have no interest in disassembling the firmware (which is different on every revision of the cards they have put out) to figure out their sequencer interface and spend time trying to interface with it just so I can go fetch the real code. >Write a piddly driver to use that code to load the new code into >the kernel once the root file system is up, then switch over to the >driver that wants new code. > > >For the purposes of binary distribution, it ought to be easier to >either get the sequencer code un-GPL'ed, rewrite it, or someone sign >a non-disclosure with Adaptec and write a binary driver distributed >soley as .o files. Yes, the best solution is non-GPLd sequencer code, but the author has stopped responding to my mail so I don't know what the deal is with this issue. My last message to him was a polite note asking him to say either "never" or "yes", but to at least say something... :-( > >8-|. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 17:50:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA20538 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:50:28 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA20531 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:50:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02403; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:50:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199503210150.RAA02403@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter Dufault cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:36:25 EST." <199503210036.TAA01107@hda.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:50:15 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Justin T. Gibbs writes: >> >> Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of >> byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup >> is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel >> (ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works >> without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure >> for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to >> read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the >> firmware separately. > >You've helped the Linux people out a bit. Any chance the original >author will place a version of the sequencer under BSD style >copyright? I know, but the original author is scared or something. I need someone else in the Linux camp to ask him so that its not only coming from me. I'm still trying... :-{ > >Peter > >-- >Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation >HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 >dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 18:10:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA20980 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:10:27 -0800 Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA20974 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:10:26 -0800 Received: by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id SAA16154; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:08:59 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 18:08:59 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199503210208.SAA16154@netcom14.netcom.com> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: MH & POP3? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I lost my MH Mail book ... anyone out there knows how to retrieve remote mail using mh? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 19:46:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA04716 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:46:39 -0800 Received: from is1.hk.super.net (jbeukema@is1.hk.super.net [202.14.67.232]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA04698 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 19:46:35 -0800 Received: by is1.hk.super.net id AA16179 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:46:25 +0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:46:25 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Denial of resource attacks Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Many thanks to all who answered my question about OS recommendations. I received nearly twenty replies and no flames (amazing!). I posted the question in four groups. The results were more or less as follows: 1. BSDI with source license given the use. 2. ( and close second ) FreeBSD. 3. NetBSD 4. Linux Tied for last Solaris on x86 and SCO on anything. jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 20:05:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA06277 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:05:17 -0800 Received: from is1.hk.super.net (jbeukema@is1.hk.super.net [202.14.67.232]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA06270 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:05:12 -0800 Received: by is1.hk.super.net id AA17298 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:05:02 +0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:05:02 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Denial of resource attacks Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was testing FreeBSD 2.0R with a shell which generated endless sub directories. The kernel does not have disk quota option compiled. Not unexpectedly, the user process generated 5306 subdrectories and started looping on file system full messages. No panic, crash or lock up -- so far, so good. No problem, kill the shell and rm -r the directory, right? Well, surprise, rm -r fails when the maximum path length is exceeded. I was forced to write another shell script to step down the chain to the end and then remove the directories one by one. Time down 1 1/2 hours (am not very good at shell programing). Questions: 1. Is there any other way to protect against this type of attack than quotas? 2. Do quotas work well? 3. Might it be a good idea to limit the creation of sub-directories when the max path length will be exceeded, so that rm -r will continue to work? jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 20:30:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA07077 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:30:08 -0800 Received: from specgw.spec.co.jp (specgw.spec.co.jp [202.32.13.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07071 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:30:05 -0800 Received: from tama3 (tama3 [202.32.13.252]) by specgw.spec.co.jp (8.6.5/3.3Wb-SPEC) with SMTP id NAA06477; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:12:55 +0900 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:12:55 +0900 Message-Id: <199503210412.NAA06477@specgw.spec.co.jp> To: dufault@hda.com Cc: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com, pst@Shockwave.COM, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency In-Reply-To: <199503201645.LAA00477@hda.com> From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQjwwZhsoSg==?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPV8bKEo=?= Atsushi Murai X-Mailer: AL-Mail for Windows(0.36B) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Dufault wrotes: As I mentioned my previous mail, I missing mail that you're discussition befor I cut in. Anyway I should apporogize let you messed up... >There wasn't any proposal to remove this. I made an observation >that it would be nice to add a "report anything you need to about >this target" call to the host adapter code so that the sample logs >were deferred until the same time as the SCSI system was matching >up drivers. That is, something like: > >> (bt0:1:0): "FUJITSU M2266S-512 001D" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 >> sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 1029MB with 2107704 512 byte sectors >> bt0: targ 1 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 But you might consider that both line 1 and 3 are target information. And I don't recommend do a re-negotiation to target later as you say. You can get a negotiation information with structure that card driver is already saved before it's shows. How about this ? sd1(bt0:1) : "FUJITSU M2266S-512 001D" is a type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(bt0:1) : Sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 sd1(bt0:1:0): Direct-Access 1029MB with 2107704 512 byte sectors sd1(bt0:1:1): Direct-Access 1029MB with 2107704 512 byte sectors ^ ^ ^ | | | | | Loggical Unit Number | Target Number Controler Number >That way everything about target 1 is printed in one place. Yes. I agree this. >Peter Atsushi. -- Atsushi Murai E-Mail: amurai@spec.co.jp SPEC Voice : +81-3-3833-5341 System Planning and Engineering Corp. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 20:58:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA07516 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:58:18 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA07508 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 20:57:53 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA04361; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:57:17 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:57:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503210457.OAA04361@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jbeukema@hk.super.net Subject: Re: Denial of resource attacks Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Well, surprise, rm -r fails when the maximum path length is exceeded. I >was forced to write another shell script to step down the chain to the end >and then remove the directories one by one. Time down 1 1/2 hours (am not >very good at shell programing). Another rm (gnu) might have worked. It's easy for rm to recurse and chdir down the tree itself. This is probably the fastest way to do it anyway. One problem is that it may be hard to chdir back up the tree. (Damaged) subdirectories may be missing their ".." entry. Parent directories may have been renamed. I thought the FreeBSD rm did chdir down the tree. It uses fts. fts chdir's down the tree unless the FTS_NOCHDIR flag is set. rm always sets this flag! >Questions: >1. Is there any other way to protect against this type of attack than >quotas? No. >2. Do quotas work well? Don't know. >3. Might it be a good idea to limit the creation of sub-directories >when the max path length will be exceeded, so that rm -r will >continue to work? No. rm should be fixed. It may take a long time to remove deeply nested directories, but it will take a long time to create them too, and wasting resources for this is no worse than wasting resources for creating and deleting files. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 21:13:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA07940 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:13:06 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA07932 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:13:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA00948; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:14:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199503210514.WAA00948@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:24:08 EST." <17745.795738248@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:14:07 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I am closing in on the "restore ..." panics with 4mm DAT drives. Summary: without specific option dump writes (10 * 1024) byte records to tape while restore attempts to read (32 * 1024) byte records from tape. It is something about this read that appears to panic the kernel. Short term fixes: --- create dump tapes by: dump 0bBf 32 2000000 /dev/rst0 /dev/sd0x then: restore isf 1 /dev/rst0 should work. --- if you already have dump tapes created something like: dump 0f /dev/rst0 /dev/sd0x try: restore isbf 1 10 /dev/rst0 --- Notes: the lowercase 'b' option sets the number of 1024 byte blocks per tape record. the uppercase 'B' option sets the number of blocks expected to fit on the tape. Without the 'B' & '2000000' dump writes a relatively SMALL number of records b4 asking for a new tape. --- I would appreciate any feedback on the success/failure of these fixes... Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 21:51:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA00195 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:51:24 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA00189 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:51:20 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA29551; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:50:47 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503210550.VAA29551@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com (Steve Passe) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:50:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: <199503210514.WAA00948@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Mar 20, 95 10:14:07 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 549 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am closing in on the "restore ..." panics with 4mm DAT > drives. > > Summary: > > without specific option dump writes (10 * 1024) byte records to > tape while restore attempts to read (32 * 1024) byte records from > tape. It is something about this read that appears to panic the > kernel. > Could you try to use "tcopy /dev/rmt0" to verify the blocksize ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 21:49:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA00142 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:49:43 -0800 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA09835 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 21:45:11 -0800 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA01179 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:45:05 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199503210545.AAA01179@goof.com> Subject: 66 -> 80 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:45:05 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 409 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone ever clocked a 486dx2/66 up to 80? I'm considering doing this on my FreeBSD box. -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 22:05:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA00406 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:05:10 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA00400 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:05:08 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA03875; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:02:40 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503210602.WAA03875@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 66 -> 80 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:02:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503210545.AAA01179@goof.com> from "matthew c. mead" at Mar 21, 95 00:45:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 495 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone ever clocked a 486dx2/66 up to 80? I'm considering doing this > on my FreeBSD box. Most of them crap out some place between 70 and 72 Mhz... You can also cause serious CPU chip damage by doing this if you try to run it much beyond the crap out point. DO NOT attempt to run a 66Mhz part at 80Mhz, it will not work. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 22:20:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA00909 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:20:52 -0800 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA00903 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:20:50 -0800 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA03098; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:20:38 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199503210620.BAA03098@goof.com> Subject: Re: 66 -> 80 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:20:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503210602.WAA03875@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 20, 95 10:02:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 862 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > Has anyone ever clocked a 486dx2/66 up to 80? I'm considering doing this > > on my FreeBSD box. > > Most of them crap out some place between 70 and 72 Mhz... > > You can also cause serious CPU chip damage by doing this if you try to > run it much beyond the crap out point. Hmm. Oh well, I was just being hopeful. > DO NOT attempt to run a 66Mhz part at 80Mhz, it will not work. I know several people that due just fine running their 66 chips at 80, but they'll probably end up replacing the CPUs soon... :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 22:26:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01122 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:26:48 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA01116 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:26:44 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA03958; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:24:20 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503210624.WAA03958@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 66 -> 80 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:24:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503210620.BAA03098@goof.com> from "matthew c. mead" at Mar 21, 95 01:20:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1180 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > Has anyone ever clocked a 486dx2/66 up to 80? I'm considering > > > doing this on my FreeBSD box. > > > > Most of them crap out some place between 70 and 72 Mhz... > > > > You can also cause serious CPU chip damage by doing this if you try to > > run it much beyond the crap out point. > > Hmm. Oh well, I was just being hopeful. > > > DO NOT attempt to run a 66Mhz part at 80Mhz, it will not work. > > I know several people that due just fine running their 66 chips at 80, > but they'll probably end up replacing the CPUs soon... :-) And what are the running on it at 80Mhz, DOS? You might get away with this in DOS/windows, but you won't running FreeBSD. The only other thing, is do these people happen to have recent AMD DXL2/66's, that are really probably 80Mhz 5V die that failed AMD's final test and where packaged as 66Mhz parts. AMD has had to stop manufacturing there 66Mhz parts, but Intel has yet (and probably wont) stop them from makeing the 80Mhz parts. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 22:31:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01475 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:31:13 -0800 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA01465 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:31:11 -0800 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA03687; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:31:02 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199503210631.BAA03687@goof.com> Subject: Re: 66 -> 80 To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:31:02 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503210624.WAA03958@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 20, 95 10:24:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1274 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > DO NOT attempt to run a 66Mhz part at 80Mhz, it will not work. > > > > I know several people that due just fine running their 66 chips at 80, > > but they'll probably end up replacing the CPUs soon... :-) > > And what are the running on it at 80Mhz, DOS? You might get away with > this in DOS/windows, but you won't running FreeBSD. Well, the three people I was talking to are running Linux. *grin* Considering how slow it is on a friend's Pentium, it can't be doing much more intensive stuff than dos does. :-) > The only other thing, is do these people happen to have recent AMD DXL2/66's, > that are really probably 80Mhz 5V die that failed AMD's final test and > where packaged as 66Mhz parts. Hmm. One has an AMD 66, and the other two have Intel 66's. > AMD has had to stop manufacturing there 66Mhz parts, but Intel has yet (and > probably wont) stop them from making the 80Mhz parts. Because of some lawsuit? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 22:40:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01885 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:40:17 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA01879 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:40:15 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Denial of resource attacks To: jbeukema@hk.super.net (John Beukema) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 22:39:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Mar 21, 95 12:05:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 344 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 3. Might it be a good idea to limit the creation of sub-directories > when the max path length will be exceeded, so that rm -r will > continue to work? you can't... consider.. mkdir A mkdir A/B mkdir A/B/C mkdir D mkdir D/E mkdir D/E/F mv D A/B/C I have made a 6 level tree but I never did a mkdir of > 3 julian > > jbeukema > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 23:01:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA02260 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:01:10 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA02182 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:00:16 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28814; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:55:33 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id HAA01838; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:55:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA24319; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:47:37 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503210647.HAA24319@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag To: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:47:36 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au In-Reply-To: <199503200927.TAA15395@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen McKay" at Mar 20, 95 07:27:18 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1187 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Stephen McKay wrote: > > > Yes, this is why I said "writable" above. I would always want read-only to > >work. ...but like I just said in a previous message, an option to force the > >system to mount writable it wouldn't be unreasonable. > > If you don't provide this option, I'll just have to add it. Certainly a As i think more about it, option `-f' (perhaps in conjunction with `-w') could still be used for this. It's otherwise only used to force just the opposite (revoke write access when downgrading from r/w to r/o), but the idea to `force' something does apply as well. (-f -r -> force r/o, -f -w -> force r/w) > BTW, does anyone have any disk-cruising/filesystem-fixing programs that are > friendlier than fsck? My 1.1 system went mad and overwrote every root > directory and their superblocks and a good number of other (apparently) random > blocks. I think I upset my tape drive while reading past EOD... Well, i've just added `fsdb(8)' to the TODO list a few days ago. D'ya know somebody who can implement it? ;-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 23:19:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA05189 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:19:45 -0800 Received: from balboa.eng.uci.edu (balboa.eng.uci.edu [128.200.61.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA05183 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:19:44 -0800 Received: from localhost.uci.edu by balboa.eng.uci.edu with SMTP id AA11821 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:19:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199503210719.AA11821@balboa.eng.uci.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: sym links Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:19:30 -0800 From: Steven Wallace Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could someone please tell the ignorant why in FreeBSD 2.X when a directory is modified all the symbolic links in that directory have their modification date changed to that same date? I don't remember this happening in FreeBSD 1.X Steven From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 23:42:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA08019 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:42:11 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA08013 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:42:10 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:39:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: <199503210550.VAA29551@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 20, 95 09:50:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 16119 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I am closing in on the "restore ..." panics with 4mm DAT > > drives. > > > > Summary: > > > > without specific option dump writes (10 * 1024) byte records to > > tape while restore attempts to read (32 * 1024) byte records from > > tape. It is something about this read that appears to panic the > > kernel. > > > > Could you try to use "tcopy /dev/rmt0" to verify the blocksize ? if we distributed the 'st' utility like we should, you could run st -f /dev/nrst0 status and we could see the mode the device was operating in. that would tell us a lot about the possible causes.. then you can use the scsi(1) or is that scsi(8) command to turn on debugging on the tape and see what it's being asked to do..... scsi(8) is in current, I include st(1) here so you can try it out it should be in the source tree (next to mt(1)) but appears to be missing.. to use the SCSI debugging you need the kernel option SCSIDEBUG. you would then run scsi -f /dev/st0ctl.0 -d 15 (and stand back.. there'll be a lot of debug info..) # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # st # st/Makefile # st/st.1 # st/st.c # echo c - st mkdir -p st > /dev/null 2>&1 echo x - st/Makefile sed 's/^X//' >st/Makefile << 'END-of-st/Makefile' X# $Id: Makefile,v 1.2 1993/11/18 05:05:39 rgrimes Exp $ X XPROG= st XMAN1= st.1 X X.include END-of-st/Makefile echo x - st/st.1 sed 's/^X//' >st/st.1 << 'END-of-st/st.1' X.\" Copyright (c) 1981, 1990 The Regents of the University of California. X.\" All rights reserved. X.\" X.\" X.\" Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X.\" modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X.\" are met: X.\" 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X.\" notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X.\" 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X.\" notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X.\" documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X.\" 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X.\" must display the following acknowledgement: X.\" This product includes software developed by the University of X.\" California, Berkeley and its contributors. X.\" 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors X.\" may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X.\" without specific prior written permission. X.\" X.\" THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X.\" ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X.\" IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X.\" ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X.\" FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X.\" DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X.\" OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X.\" HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X.\" LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X.\" OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X.\" SUCH DAMAGE. X.\" X.\" @(#)mt.1 6.7 (Berkeley) 7/28/91 X.\" X.Dd July 28, 1991 X.Dt ST 1 X.Os BSD 4 X.Sh NAME X.Nm st X.Nd magnetic tape manipulating program X.Sh SYNOPSIS X.Nm st X.Op Fl f Ar tapename X.Ar command X.Op Ar count X.Sh DESCRIPTION X.Nm St Xis used to give commands to a magnetic tape drive. XBy default X.Nm st Xperforms the requested operation once. Operations Xmay be performed multiple times by specifying X.Ar count . XNote Xthat X.Ar tapename Xmust reference a raw (not block) tape device. X.Pp XThe tape drive will hold density and blocking parameters until the next Xunmount. In the case of rst0, this is immediately and is therefore of Xnot much use with this device. In the case of nrst0 this Xmay be after several commands when either an offline command is issued or Xrst0 is openned and closed. If parameters are to be held across Xunmounts, then they should be made to the control device for each Xmode.. i.e. the devices with a submode of 3 (minors 3,7,11,15 for example). XIt is suggested that the operator keep the control device unreadble Xand unwritable to normal system users, while giving them access to Xthe non-rewind device (e.g. nrst0) on demand. X.Pp XThe available commands are listed below. Only as many Xcharacters as are required to uniquely identify a command Xneed be specified. X.Bl -tag -width "eof, weof" X.It Cm eof , weof XWrite X.Ar count Xend-of-file marks at the current position on the tape. X.It Cm fsf XForward space X.Ar count Xfiles. X.It Cm fsr XForward space X.Ar count Xrecords. X.It Cm bsf XBack space X.Ar count Xfiles. X.It Cm bsr XBack space X.Ar count Xrecords. X.It Cm compress XSet compression for the mode to type X.Ar comp Xwhere 0 is off and 1 is default. X.It Cm rewind XRewind the tape X(Count is ignored). X.It Cm offline , rewoffl XRewind the tape and place the tape unit off-line (possibly eject) X(Count is ignored). X.It Cm blocksize XSets the block size characteristics of the openned Xdevice to value specified in X.Ar count. XA 0 means variable sized blocks, and anything else means fixed block, Xwith blocksize as that of X.Ar count. X.It Cm density XSet the density for the openned device (bits 2,3 of minor number) X.Ar count Xdensity code as specified by the SCSI II specification. Valid values Xare from 0 to 0x17. X.It The different density codes are as follows: X0x0 default for device X.br X0xE reserved for ECMA X.br X XValue Tracks Density(bpi) Code Type Reference Note X.br X0x1 9 800 NRZI R X3.22-1983 2 X.br X0x2 9 1600 PE R X3.39-1986 2 X.br X0x3 9 6250 GCR R X3.54-1986 2 X.br X0x5 4/9 8000 GCR C X3.136-1986 1 X.br X0x6 9 3200 PE R X3.157-1987 2 X.br X0x7 4 6400 IMFM C X3.116-1986 1 X.br X0x8 4 8000 GCR CS X3.158-1986 1 X.br X0x9 18 37871 GCR C X3B5/87-099 2 X.br X0xA 22 6667 MFM C X3B5/86-199 1 X.br X0xB 4 1600 PE C X3.56-1986 1 X.br X0xC 24 12690 GCR C HI-TC1 1,5 X.br X0xD 24 25380 GCR C HI-TC2 1,5 X.br X0xF 15 10000 GCR C QIC-120 1,5 X.br X0x10 18 10000 GCR C QIC-150 1,5 X.br X0x11 26 16000 GCR C QIC-320(525?) 1,5 X.br X0x12 30 51667 RLL C QIC-1350 1,5 X.br X0x13 1 61000 DDS CS X3B5/88-185A 4 X.br X0x14 1 43245 RLL CS X3.202-1991 4 X.br X0x15 1 45434 RLL CS ECMA TC17 4 X.br X0x16 48 10000 MFM C X3.193-1990 1 X.br X0x17 48 42500 MFM C X3B5/91-174 1 X.br X Xwhere Code means: X.br XNRZI Non Return to Zero, change on ones X.br XGCR Group Code Recording X.br XPE Phase Encoded X.br XIMFM Inverted Modified Frequency Modulation X.br XMFM Modified Frequency Modulation X.br XDDS Dat Data Storage X.br XRLL Run Length Encoding X.br X Xwhere Type means: X.br XR Real-to-Real X.br XC Cartridge X.br XCS cassette X.br X Xwhere Notes means: X.br X1 Serial Recorded X.br X2 Parallel Recorded X.br X3 Old format know as QIC-11 X.br X4 Helical Scan X.br X5 Not ANSI standard, rather industry standard. X.br X X.It Cm status XPrint status information about the tape unit. XInformation is printed out about the present active parameters and Xalso the four Operating modes available. X.El X.Pp XIf a tape name is not specified, and the environment variable X.Ev TAPE Xdoes not exist; X.Nm st Xuses the device X.Pa /dev/nrst0 . X.Pp X.Nm St Xreturns a 0 exit status when the operation(s) were successful, X1 if the command was unrecognized, and 2 if an operation failed. X.Sh ENVIRONMENT XIf the following environment variable exists, it is utilized by X.Nm st . X.Bl -tag -width Fl X.It Ev TAPE X.Nm St Xchecks the X.Ev TAPE Xenvironment variable if the Xargument X.Ar tapename Xis not given. X.Sh FILES X.Bl -tag -width /dev/rmt* -compact X.It Pa /dev/rst* XRaw magnetic tape interface X.El X.Sh SEE ALSO X.\".Xr mtio 4 , X.Xr st 4 , X.Xr dd 1 , X.Xr ioctl 2 , X.Xr environ 7 X.Sh HISTORY XThe X.Nm st Xcommand appeared in 386BSD 0.1. XIt is derived from X.Xr mt 8 Xand will eventually re-merge with it. X X.\" mt.1: mtio(4) missing END-of-st/st.1 echo x - st/st.c sed 's/^X//' >st/st.c << 'END-of-st/st.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1980 The Regents of the University of California. X * All rights reserved. X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by the University of X * California, Berkeley and its contributors. X * 4. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X */ X X#ifndef lint Xchar copyright[] = X"@(#) Copyright (c) 1980 The Regents of the University of California.\n\ X All rights reserved.\n"; X#endif /* not lint */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic char sccsid[] = "@(#)mt.c 5.6 (Berkeley) 6/6/91"; X#endif /* not lint */ X X/* X * mt -- X * magnetic tape manipulation program X */ X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X X#define equal(s1,s2) (strcmp(s1, s2) == 0) X Xstruct commands { X char *c_name; X int c_code; X int c_ronly; X} com[] = { X { "weof", MTWEOF, 0 }, X { "eof", MTWEOF, 0 }, X { "fsf", MTFSF, 1 }, X { "bsf", MTBSF, 1 }, X { "fsr", MTFSR, 1 }, X { "bsr", MTBSR, 1 }, X { "rewind", MTREW, 1 }, X { "offline", MTOFFL, 1 }, X { "rewoffl", MTOFFL, 1 }, X { "status", MTNOP, 1 }, X { "blocksize", MTSETBSIZ, 0 }, X { "density", MTSETDNSTY, 0 }, X { 0 } X}; X Xint mtfd; Xstruct mtop mt_com; Xstruct mtget mt_status; Xchar *tape; X Xmain(argc, argv) X char **argv; X{ X void usage(); X char line[80], *getenv(); X register char *cp; X register struct commands *comp; X X if (argc > 2 && (equal(argv[1], "-t") || equal(argv[1], "-f"))) { X argc -= 2; X tape = argv[2]; X argv += 2; X } else X if ((tape = getenv("TAPE")) == NULL) X tape = DEFTAPE; X if (argc < 2) { X usage(); X exit(1); X } X cp = argv[1]; X if ((strncmp(cp, "blocksize", strlen(cp)) == 0) && argc < 3 ) { X usage(); X exit(1); X } X if ((strncmp(cp, "density", strlen(cp)) == 0) && argc < 3 ) { X usage(); X exit(1); X } X for (comp = com; comp->c_name != NULL; comp++) X if (strncmp(cp, comp->c_name, strlen(cp)) == 0) X break; X if (comp->c_name == NULL) { X fprintf(stderr, "st: don't grok \"%s\"\n", cp); X usage(); X exit(1); X } X if ((mtfd = open(tape, comp->c_ronly ? O_RDONLY : O_RDWR)) < 0) { X perror(tape); X exit(1); X } X if (comp->c_code != MTNOP) { X mt_com.mt_op = comp->c_code; X mt_com.mt_count = (argc > 2 ? atoi(argv[2]) : 1); X if (mt_com.mt_count < 0) { X fprintf(stderr, "st: negative repeat count\n"); X exit(1); X } X if (ioctl(mtfd, MTIOCTOP, &mt_com) < 0) { X fprintf(stderr, "%s %s %d ", tape, comp->c_name, X mt_com.mt_count); X perror("failed"); X exit(2); X } X } else { X if (ioctl(mtfd, MTIOCGET, (char *)&mt_status) < 0) { X perror("st"); X exit(2); X } X status(&mt_status); X } X} X X#ifdef vax X#include X#include X X#include X#include X#undef b_repcnt /* argh */ X#include X#endif X X#ifdef sun X#include X#include X#endif X X#ifdef tahoe X#include X#endif X Xstruct tape_desc { X short t_type; /* type of magtape device */ X char *t_name; /* printing name */ X char *t_dsbits; /* "drive status" register */ X char *t_erbits; /* "error" register */ X} tapes[] = { X#ifdef vax X { MT_ISTS, "ts11", 0, TSXS0_BITS }, X { MT_ISHT, "tm03", HTDS_BITS, HTER_BITS }, X { MT_ISTM, "tm11", 0, TMER_BITS }, X { MT_ISMT, "tu78", MTDS_BITS, 0 }, X { MT_ISUT, "tu45", UTDS_BITS, UTER_BITS }, X#endif X#if defined(sun) X { MT_ISCPC, "TapeMaster", TMS_BITS, 0 }, X { MT_ISAR, "Archive", ARCH_CTRL_BITS, ARCH_BITS }, X#endif X#ifdef tahoe X { MT_ISCY, "cipher", CYS_BITS, CYCW_BITS }, X#endif X#if defined (__386BSD__) X { MT_ISAR, "Archive/Tandberg?", 0, 0 }, X#endif X { 0 } X}; X X/* X * Interpret the status buffer returned X */ Xstatus(bp) X register struct mtget *bp; X{ X register struct tape_desc *mt; X X printf("Present Mode: Density = 0x%02x, Blocksize = %d bytes\n", X bp->mt_density, bp->mt_blksiz); X printf("---------available modes----------\n"); X printf("Mode 0: Density = 0x%02x, Blocksize = %d bytes\n", X bp->mt_density0, bp->mt_blksiz0); X printf("Mode 1: Density = 0x%02x, Blocksize = %d bytes\n", X bp->mt_density1, bp->mt_blksiz1); X printf("Mode 2: Density = 0x%02x, Blocksize = %d bytes\n", X bp->mt_density2, bp->mt_blksiz2); X printf("Mode 3: Density = 0x%02x, Blocksize = %d bytes\n", X bp->mt_density3, bp->mt_blksiz3); X X#ifdef NOTYET X printf("tape drive: residual=%d\n", X bp->mt_resid); X printreg("ds", bp->mt_dsreg, mt->t_dsbits); X printreg("\ner", bp->mt_erreg, mt->t_erbits); X putchar('\n'); X#endif X} X X/* X * Print a register a la the %b format of the kernel's printf X */ Xprintreg(s, v, bits) X char *s; X register char *bits; X register unsigned short v; X{ X register int i, any = 0; X register char c; X X if (bits && *bits == 8) X printf("%s=%o", s, v); X else X printf("%s=%x", s, v); X bits++; X if (v && bits) { X putchar('<'); X while (i = *bits++) { X if (v & (1 << (i-1))) { X if (any) X putchar(','); X any = 1; X for (; (c = *bits) > 32; bits++) X putchar(c); X } else X for (; *bits > 32; bits++) X ; X } X putchar('>'); X } X} Xvoid usage() { X register struct commands *comp; X X fprintf(stderr, "Usage: st [ -f tape ] command [ count ] \n"); X fprintf(stderr, " Where command is one of:\n"); X for (comp=com; comp->c_name != NULL; comp++) { X fprintf(stderr, " %s\n", comp->c_name); X } X fprintf(stderr,"Note that the count argument is required\n"); X fprintf(stderr, "with the \"blocksize\" , and the density setting commands.\n"); X fprintf(stderr, "Note that the count argument is a base 10 number\n"); X} END-of-st/st.c exit From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Mar 20 23:51:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA08932 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:51:03 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA08924 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:51:01 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA29958; Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:50:13 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503210750.XAA29958@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:50:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Mar 20, 95 11:39:28 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 473 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Could you try to use "tcopy /dev/rmt0" to verify the blocksize ? > > if we distributed the 'st' utility like we should, WHAT ?? I thought that had gone in LONG time ago ??? Ok, unless somebody wants to merge this into "mt", really fast, I'm going to commit Julians code Any takers ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 00:49:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA11472 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:49:08 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11466 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:49:07 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA04183; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:49:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199503210849.AAA04183@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Steven Wallace cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sym links In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 1995 23:19:30 PST." <199503210719.AA11821@balboa.eng.uci.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:48:57 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Could someone please tell the ignorant why in FreeBSD 2.X >when a directory is modified all the symbolic links in that directory >have their modification date changed to that same date? >I don't remember this happening in FreeBSD 1.X > >Steven symbolic links are stored entirely in the directory entry and thus carry the same time stamp info as the directory. -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 01:23:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12544 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:38 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12538 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:34 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA28565; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:29 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA00144; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Steven Wallace , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sym links In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 00:48:57 PST." <199503210849.AAA04183@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:28 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >>Could someone please tell the ignorant why in FreeBSD 2.X >>when a directory is modified all the symbolic links in that directory >>have their modification date changed to that same date? >>I don't remember this happening in FreeBSD 1.X >> >>Steven > >symbolic links are stored entirely in the directory entry and thus >carry the same time stamp info as the directory. Well, that's how POSIX would have it...but in FFS they are stored in the inode if short and in a regular disk block if long. They're only made to appear like they have no inode associated with them. I wouldn't object if we went back to the old way of doing this - with symlinks having an inode. The problem of a regular user not being able to delete a symlink he created in /tmp is one of the many problems with the way we have it now. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 01:25:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12622 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:25:51 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12614 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:25:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA24384 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:50:24 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199503210850.JAA24384@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: vipw feature (and fix) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:50:23 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1488 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is interesting... I was building a quick and dirty "adduser" function driven by a shell script, and thought to use vipw driven by a shell script (I thought this way locking, error checking etc would come for free..). After setting thing up, I found out that most of the times vipw would say "no changes made" even if the (temporary) master.passwd was actually changed. I thought it was me, but look at this fragment of vipw.c where the check is made for changes to the password file... ... if (stat(tempname, &begin)) pw_error(tempname, 1, 1); pw_edit(0); if (stat(tempname, &end)) pw_error(tempname, 1, 1); if (begin.st_mtime == end.st_mtime) { warnx("no changes made"); pw_error((char *)NULL, 0, 0); } ... so, if the changes to the password file are done faster than the st_mtime resolution (is that one second ?), then no changes are assumed. A better way would be needed for the check. On 2.1 the stat structure actually uses "struct timespec" for the times. I propose to modify line 95 of vipw.c from if (begin.st_mtime == end.st_mtime) { to if (begin.st_mtimespec == end.st_mtimespec) { Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 01:43:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA13163 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:43:33 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA13157 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:43:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA07270; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:43:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199503210943.BAA07270@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: davidg@Root.COM cc: Steven Wallace , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sym links In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:28 PST." <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:43:18 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> >>>Could someone please tell the ignorant why in FreeBSD 2.X >>>when a directory is modified all the symbolic links in that directory >>>have their modification date changed to that same date? >>>I don't remember this happening in FreeBSD 1.X >>> >>>Steven >> >>symbolic links are stored entirely in the directory entry and thus >>carry the same time stamp info as the directory. > > Well, that's how POSIX would have it...but in FFS they are stored in the >inode if short and in a regular disk block if long. They're only made to >appear like they have no inode associated with them. I wouldn't object if we >went back to the old way of doing this - with symlinks having an inode. The >problem of a regular user not being able to delete a symlink he created in >/tmp is one of the many problems with the way we have it now. > >-DG What's the speed penalty for going back to 4.3 behavior? -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 02:06:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA13904 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:06:50 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA13890 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:06:47 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id CAA28648; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:06:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA01619; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:06:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199503211006.CAA01619@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Steven Wallace , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sym links In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 01:43:18 PST." <199503210943.BAA07270@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:06:42 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>symbolic links are stored entirely in the directory entry and thus >>>carry the same time stamp info as the directory. >> >> Well, that's how POSIX would have it...but in FFS they are stored in the >>inode if short and in a regular disk block if long. They're only made to >>appear like they have no inode associated with them. I wouldn't object if we >>went back to the old way of doing this - with symlinks having an inode. The >>problem of a regular user not being able to delete a symlink he created in >>/tmp is one of the many problems with the way we have it now. >> >>-DG > >What's the speed penalty for going back to 4.3 behavior? None that I know of; the inode information is already available...unless you're refering to the human time to change the code back. :-) -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 02:17:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA14276 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:17:16 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA14262 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:17:12 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA29814 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:08:50 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 21 Mar 95 13:08:49 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA00784; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:06:46 +0300 To: davidg@Root.COM, "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Steven Wallace References: <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM> In-Reply-To: <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM>; from David Greenman at Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:28 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:06:45 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: sym links Lines: 29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1384 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM> David Greenman writes: > Well, that's how POSIX would have it...but in FFS they are stored in the >inode if short and in a regular disk block if long. They're only made to POSIX says a little about simlinks, they tends to ignore them when possible and this intention cause such situation, I think. In any case POSIX is _standard_ commitee (I mean they don't discover completely new things) and NO so-called POSIX-symlinks exists in the world when this draft was written, so it is obviously misinterpretation. >appear like they have no inode associated with them. I wouldn't object if we >went back to the old way of doing this - with symlinks having an inode. The >problem of a regular user not being able to delete a symlink he created in >/tmp is one of the many problems with the way we have it now. You point to serious problem, even for it alone is worse to revert to previous behaviour. I vote YES for restoring canonical thing, so many problems with new symlinks, better to return to standard BSD way. Let's start voting? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 02:18:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA14331 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:18:50 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA14316 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:18:48 -0800 Received: from tartufo.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA27448; Tue, 21 Mar 95 02:19:44 -0800 Received: by tartufo.pcs.dec.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:18 MET Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:18 MET From: me@tartufo.pcs.dec.com (Michael Elbel) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Sound Card recomendations? Newsgroups: pcs.freebsd.hackers References: <9503201226.AA01305@chinook.dkrz.de> Reply-To: me@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In pcs.freebsd.hackers you write: >> If you can really get 'em this cheap, count me in for one. Maybe >> a group purchase should be put together? >> >> Jordan >> >Please put me in this group too. I couldn't find this card in >my area. According to the latest c't they are supposedly distributed through "Pearl Agency, Buggingen" which seems to be the same Pearl Agency that has ads in most computer magazines here. C't quoted DM 389, however so a direct purchase in the States or Canada might be feasible even counting in things like shipping and tax. Michael -- Michael Elbel, Digital-PCS GmbH, Muenchen, Germany - me@FreeBSD.org Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 02:28:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA14537 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:28:14 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA14530 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 02:28:07 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA08861 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:12:14 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 21 Mar 95 13:12:13 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA00784; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:06:46 +0300 To: davidg@Root.COM, "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Steven Wallace References: <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM> In-Reply-To: <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM>; from David Greenman at Tue, 21 Mar 1995 01:23:28 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:06:45 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: sym links Lines: 29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1384 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM> David Greenman writes: > Well, that's how POSIX would have it...but in FFS they are stored in the >inode if short and in a regular disk block if long. They're only made to POSIX says a little about simlinks, they tends to ignore them when possible and this intention cause such situation, I think. In any case POSIX is _standard_ commitee (I mean they don't discover completely new things) and NO so-called POSIX-symlinks exists in the world when this draft was written, so it is obviously misinterpretation. >appear like they have no inode associated with them. I wouldn't object if we >went back to the old way of doing this - with symlinks having an inode. The >problem of a regular user not being able to delete a symlink he created in >/tmp is one of the many problems with the way we have it now. You point to serious problem, even for it alone is worse to revert to previous behaviour. I vote YES for restoring canonical thing, so many problems with new symlinks, better to return to standard BSD way. Let's start voting? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 03:53:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA17660 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 03:53:28 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA17645 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 03:53:02 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA14006; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:52:13 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:52:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503211152.VAA14006@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: vipw feature (and fix) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >was actually changed. I thought it was me, but look at this fragment >of vipw.c where the check is made for changes to the password >file... > ... > if (stat(tempname, &begin)) > pw_error(tempname, 1, 1); > pw_edit(0); > if (stat(tempname, &end)) > pw_error(tempname, 1, 1); > if (begin.st_mtime == end.st_mtime) { > warnx("no changes made"); > pw_error((char *)NULL, 0, 0); > } > ... >so, if the changes to the password file are done faster than the st_mtime >resolution (is that one second ?), then no changes are assumed. >A better way would be needed for the check. On 2.1 the stat structure >actually uses "struct timespec" for the times. I propose to modify line >95 of vipw.c from > if (begin.st_mtime == end.st_mtime) { >to > if (begin.st_mtimespec == end.st_mtimespec) { This wouldn't help if the file system is the current or older ufs. The nanonseconds field is always 0. The problem could be fixed by adding `sleep(1)' before calling pw_edit() (assuming sleep(1) is guaranteed to take >= 1 second). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 04:38:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA19042 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 04:38:14 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA18774 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 04:31:13 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA24633; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:23:09 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199503211223.NAA24633@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: vipw feature (and fix) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:23:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503211152.VAA14006@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 21, 95 09:51:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1344 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >A better way would be needed for the check. On 2.1 the stat structure > >actually uses "struct timespec" for the times. I propose to modify line > >95 of vipw.c from > > > if (begin.st_mtime == end.st_mtime) { > > >to > > if (begin.st_mtimespec == end.st_mtimespec) { > > This wouldn't help if the file system is the current or older ufs. The > nanonseconds field is always 0. Didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out. Then I guess we have to checksum the file to see if it has changed! > The problem could be fixed by adding `sleep(1)' before calling pw_edit() > (assuming sleep(1) is guaranteed to take >= 1 second). This is what I do currently, but it is so boring to wait on a fast machine! Does anybody know what is the meaning of the st_gen field of the stat structure ? I thought it was some form of version number (it would cost almost nothing to increment it every time the file is written to), but at least on my 1.1.5 system it stays at the same value forever. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 05:04:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA19554 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:04:36 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA19546 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:04:31 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA04921 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:57:12 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA22057; 21 Mar 95 06:21:38 CST (Tue) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA22054; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:21:38 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503211221.GAA22054@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: sym links To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:21:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503210923.BAA00144@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 21, 95 01:23:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 347 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, that's how POSIX would have it...but in FFS they are stored in the > inode if short and in a regular disk block if long. They're only made to > appear like they have no inode associated with them. That's bogus. Really. Hiding implementation details like this is a VMSish thing to do, IMHO. If the symlink's really got an inode use it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 05:20:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA19860 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:20:28 -0800 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA19850 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:20:08 -0800 Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.18.7]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA25741 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:19:18 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.9) id OAA19769; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:19:01 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:19:01 +0100 Message-Id: <199503211319.OAA19769@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: biosboot code size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I changed the biosboot sources to emulate simple ls and more/cat (read help files, list /dev etc.) at boot prompt. It works fine for FreeBSD-2.0. Unfortunately, in FreeBSD-current grow the code and boot hangs. I delete the usage printf to reduce the code. Is there any other way to avoid this strange size limit? Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 05:21:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA19898 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:21:36 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA19881; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:21:27 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA15950; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:16:25 +1000 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:16:25 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503211316.XAA15950@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, peter@bonkers.taronga.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of >byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup >is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel >(ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works >without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure >for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to >read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the >firmware separately. There will have to be a another stage in the boot for 2.1. This is not hard to implement, except for the dosboot and possibly the netboot. The dosboot and the netboot are already out of date. The netboot lacks support for BIOS drive geometries (which is essential for correct operation of fdisk and sysinstall) and both lack support for BIOS memory sizes. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 05:53:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA20516 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:53:48 -0800 Received: from deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk [129.215.144.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA20491 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:52:01 -0800 Received: (from richard@localhost) by deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (8.6.10/8.6.9) id NAA04769; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:47:20 GMT Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:47:20 GMT Message-Id: <199503211347.NAA04769@deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk> From: Richard Tobin Subject: Re: NMI Error success story To: Nate Williams , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of Sat, 18 Mar 1995 23:31:35 -0700 Organization: just say no Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My home machine is a 386DX33 with an EISA bus, about 5 years old now. Since the first release of 386BSD I've had problems with it getting NMIs and then panicing, apparently during heavy disk (IDE) i/o (often during fsck). The problem vanishes completely if I remove the "halt" instruction from the idle loop (incidentally, this means I had no problem with NetBSD 1.0, which doesn't use the halt instruction). I don't understand why this is, but it's something that others having a similar problem might try. -- Richard From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 05:58:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA20577 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:58:06 -0800 Received: from deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk [129.215.144.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA20571 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 05:58:04 -0800 Received: (from richard@localhost) by deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (8.6.10/8.6.9) id NAA05291; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:56:40 GMT Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:56:40 GMT Message-Id: <199503211356.NAA05291@deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk> From: Richard Tobin Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag To: davidg@Root.COM, Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr In-Reply-To: David Greenman's message of Sun, 19 Mar 1995 08:20:55 -0800 Organization: just say no Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The system should not allow mounting a dirty filesystem writable. Aargh. Let it warn you, let it demand an extra flag, but it must let you do this if you really want to. Sometimes it's worth the risk to be able to get your system up. -- Richard From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 06:03:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA20664 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:03:40 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA20655 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:03:32 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA17342; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:02:33 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:02:33 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503211402.AAA17342@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de Subject: Re: biosboot code size Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I changed the biosboot sources to emulate simple ls and more/cat >(read help files, list /dev etc.) at boot prompt. It works fine for >FreeBSD-2.0. >Unfortunately, in FreeBSD-current grow the code and boot hangs. >I delete the usage printf to reduce the code. Is there any other way >to avoid this strange size limit? It needs to be split into a small stage and a large stage. The Makefile should check that its text+data size is <= 7680 bytes. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 06:39:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA21338 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:39:15 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA21331; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:39:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) cc: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 20 Mar 95 23:39:28 PST." Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 06:39:14 -0800 Message-ID: <21330.795796754@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > if we distributed the 'st' utility like we should, > you could run > > st -f /dev/nrst0 status > > and we could see the mode the device was operating in. > that would tell us a lot about the possible causes.. > then you can use the scsi(1) or is that scsi(8) command > to turn on debugging on the tape > and see what it's being asked to do..... > scsi(8) is in current, > I include st(1) here so you can try it out > it should be in the source tree (next to mt(1)) but appears to be missing.. I was under the impression that we were going to merge st and mt together, and that this was the reason for not bringing st over in the first place. Two tape frobbing commands does strike me as more than a little silly, and `mt' is the historical standard. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 07:47:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA23229 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:47:22 -0800 Received: from aut.alcatel.at (dnisun.aut.alcatel.at [146.112.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA23206 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:47:17 -0800 Received: from atusc46.aut.alcatel.at ([146.112.129.213]) by aut.alcatel.at (4.1/SMI-4.1/AAA-1.29/main) id AA07308; Tue, 21 Mar 95 16:41:14 +0100 From: Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at (Marino Ladavac) Message-Id: <9503211541.AA07308@aut.alcatel.at> Subject: Adaptec sequencer code (was: SVNET Meeting) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:40:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503210004.AA03603@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 20, 95 05:04:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 686 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > For the purposes of binary distribution, it ought to be easier to > either get the sequencer code un-GPL'ed, rewrite it, or someone sign > a non-disclosure with Adaptec and write a binary driver distributed > soley as .o files. > > 8-|. > Since the sequencer code is, as far as I could understand, just a bunch of raw binary data, is it not itself basically unreadable (bar disassembly) and as such non disclosing? I mean, knowing how they did program the sequencer is nice, but do we really care that much, as long as it works? I don't know about Adaptec's opinion on distributing only the object format of the sequencer. Is that kosher? /Alby From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 08:06:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA23706 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:06:33 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA23698 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:06:28 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA11483 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:10:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:10:33 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503211610.JAA11483@trout.sri.MT.net> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Midi driver Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --- Forwarded mail from "Mike Durian" From: "Mike Durian" To: jr@upl.com Cc: bsdi-users@bsdi.com Subject: Re: MIDI Software Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 17:20:18 -0700 Sender: owner-bsdi-users@bsdi.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 20 Mar 1995 16:12:13 MST, jr.westmoreland@upl.com (J. R. Westmoreland) wrote: >What software is available that works with the midi driver? I'm the author of the midi driver (or rather /dev/midi, I believe the sound blaster package has special midi support called /dev/sequencer, but I can't comment on that). The version being shipped with 2.0 (and 1.X for that matter) is old. If you want a newer version, you should ftp://ftp.xor.com/pub/midi/tclmidi-2.1.tar.gz. I haven't tested the driver with 2.0 yet, but will do it soon. I expect the changes to be very minor. This version of tclmidi comes with a driver that uses the midi board in MPU401 UART mode but also supports external SMPTE timing if you have a Music Quest card with the appropriate hardware. There are also drivers supplied for LINUX and SVR4 (though SVR4 is currently broken). The tclmidi code itself is in C++ and was modified to build under Windows too, but hasn't been compiled that way in a while. Tclmidi is TCL based. The only software that I know of that uses the driver is my tclmidi package. There was some guy working on a appegiator using the driver, but I haven't heard from him in a while. Someone else has been working on a very basic sequencer using tclmidi. Send a "subscribe tclmidi" message to majordomo@advtech.uswest.com if you want to be notified of any tclmidi updates and be a part of a very low traffic mailing list. mike --- End of forwarded message from "Mike Durian" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 08:21:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA24275 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:21:08 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA24269 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:21:05 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06745; Tue, 21 Mar 95 09:14:45 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503211614.AA06745@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Denial of resource attacks To: jbeukema@hk.super.net (John Beukema) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 9:14:44 MST Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John Beukema" at Mar 21, 95 12:05:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, surprise, rm -r fails when the maximum path length is exceeded. I > was forced to write another shell script to step down the chain to the end > and then remove the directories one by one. Time down 1 1/2 hours (am not > very good at shell programing). This should be unlikely, since the directory is relatively pathed. The recursive descent chdirs. > 3. Might it be a good idea to limit the creation of sub-directories > when the max path length will be exceeded, so that rm -r will > continue to work? This is ineffective. The limit is on the basis of the copyin of path names using copyinstr -- the limit being PATH_MAX (1024). A relatively pathed create will not exceed the path length, even if the total agregate path length from / would. Unless you are suggesting the path resoloution ought to determine the path length up to the path component being created... In which case, happy FS hacking as you do the necessary disallowing of all sym links and hard links on dirs (even for root). The current file system doesn't store the parent directory of an inode; lookup would be prohibitively expensive, and symbolic link translation on lookup is going to throw a wrench into things big-time (it's unavoidable). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 08:40:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA24658 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:40:41 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA24652 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:40:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: I need a USENET consultant! :-) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:40:39 -0800 Message-ID: <24651.795804039@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have this problem. People expect me to do stuff on USENET, like reply to messages or moderate the comp.os.freebsd.announce newsgroup (!), and in the case of the newsgroup at least that's fine. I want to have some measure of control over the content, since the main reason I signed up for it was due to some historical disagreements over comp.os.386bsd.announce's restrictions vs FreeBSD's traditional stances on things in the past. The only problem with all of this is that for reasons of dire schedule constraints, I don't really have the TIME to learn how to muck with the fiddly little details of getting things like those `Supercedes' headers right, and whatnot. People on USENET expect a certain level of service, and it is fine for them to expect it, but I worry about my ability to deliver it. Some background is, perhaps, in order: I personally BAILED on USENET about 4 years ago ("A hive of wretched flamers and ruffians as bad as you'll ever find") and only "came back" about 18 months ago insofar as I was more or less dragged back by a need to sort of wave the flag and fly the colors in there occasionally. I didn't come back happily, and I'd really rather prefer to just drop USENET again almost entirely. It's just too much for me to deal with on top of everything else, and how would you rather I spent my time - reading mindless diatribes by USENAUTS who've only just learned which side of the keyboard is the top, or in hacking on/promoting FreeBSD? I'd certainly prefer the latter, myself, which is why I'm sending this plea. I need someone to interface between myself and USENET - culling out the occasionally _genuinely interesting_ articles and mailing them on (or posting them to -hackers when VERY interesting), and ALSO handling the messy details of passing the "approved" comp.os.freebsd.announce articles back into the maw of an nntpd someplace. It's been so many years since I've last done this that I don't even *remember* how to do it, and I'm not really all that interesting in learning now again. I really just want to be able to "rubber stamp" the article and send it on to someone else who actually KNOWS what they're doing and will adjust the headers appropriately (I know that frequently posted things get different handling and all of that - ack - don't want to know about it! :-). Anyway.. I'm not too proud to beg. Would someone who knows USENET so well that this poses no significant additional hardship anyway please please please please step forward and help me with this one? I think it's very useful that *some* degree of presence be maintained and I'd hate to think of dropping out so entirely that I completely lost touch with that area of the net! :-( If I could rely on someone to smooth the rougher edges out, it would really make it possible to still maintain an active presence there without sacrificing so much of my time (and probably at much better quality, to boot!). Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 08:43:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA24788 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:43:52 -0800 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA24781 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:43:51 -0800 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id IAA17307; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:43:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:43:47 -0800 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199503211643.IAA17307@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: fwd without comment Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!iafrica.com!ticsa.com!xwing.wcape.gov.za!swhite From: swhite@xwing.wcape.gov.za (Sean White) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: FreeBSD or Linux as a router Date: 21 Mar 1995 15:56:40 GMT Organization: Internet Africa Lines: 44 Message-ID: <3kmsvo$m8i@grovel.iafrica.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: xwing.wcape.gov.za X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Hi! Could anybody give me some good reasons why I shouldn't allow people to use PC's running FreeBSD/NetBSD or Linux as routers on our network? I'd heard that the networking code in these O/Ss doesn't comply with various requirements for routers. I'd also appreciate any information regarding the following:- (1) Would such a router be compatible with our present cisco routers? (2) Would such a router be manageable remotely? If so, how? (3) Our network management system uses Cabletron's SPECTRUM software. Would such a router have a SNMP MIB (MIB-II) available that could be used by SPECTRUM? (4) We have taken a decision to only use OSPF as routing protocol on the network. Would a FreeBSD/NetBSD/Linux system used as a router be able to run OSPF? Would it be able to exchange routing information with our cisco routers? (5) Can such a router handle IP, IPX, DEC LAT, OSI, Appletalk protocols? Would SDLC tunneling be supported? (6) Can packet filters be put in place for IP and IPX protocols in particular? (7) Would reconfiguration require rebooting or otherwise interrupting the flow of traffic on such a router? *IF* we're to allow such systems as routers on our network then they must comply with the standards that have already been set. I'm not about to advocate re-configuring the network, or even portions of it, just to accommodate such systems being used as routers. Any and all information would be most welcome. Best regards, Sean. (swhite@gov.za) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 08:50:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25107 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:50:00 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA25091 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:49:54 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id RAA01976 ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 17:50:00 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27166; Tue, 21 Mar 95 17:49:46 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503211649.AA27166@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: sym links To: ache@astral.msk.su (Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 17:49:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: from "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" at Mar 21, 95 01:06:45 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#429 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 429 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I vote YES for restoring canonical thing, so many problems with new symlinks, > better to return to standard BSD way. > Let's start voting? > YES. The /tmp problem is more than enough IMO to justify it and it will cause us many questions from people who know the old BSD way. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #1: Mon Mar 6 23:55:18 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 09:33:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA27619 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:33:49 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA27612; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:33:44 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA01283; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:33:07 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503211733.JAA01283@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:33:07 -0800 (PST) Cc: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199503211316.XAA15950@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 21, 95 11:16:25 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1087 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of > >byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup > >is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel > >(ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works > >without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure > >for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to > >read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the > >firmware separately. > > There will have to be a another stage in the boot for 2.1. This > is not hard to implement, except for the dosboot and possibly the > netboot. The dosboot and the netboot are already out of date. > The netboot lacks support for BIOS drive geometries (which is > essential for correct operation of fdisk and sysinstall) and both > lack support for BIOS memory sizes. Say what ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 09:47:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28261 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:47:39 -0800 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA28255; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:47:38 -0800 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA14482; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:40:39 -0800 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199503211740.JAA14482@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:40:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: <21330.795796754@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 06:39:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1498 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > > > if we distributed the 'st' utility like we should, > > you could run > > > > st -f /dev/nrst0 status > > > > and we could see the mode the device was operating in. > > that would tell us a lot about the possible causes.. > > then you can use the scsi(1) or is that scsi(8) command > > to turn on debugging on the tape > > and see what it's being asked to do..... > > scsi(8) is in current, > > I include st(1) here so you can try it out > > it should be in the source tree (next to mt(1)) but appears to be missing.. > > I was under the impression that we were going to merge st and mt together, > and that this was the reason for not bringing st over in the first place. I was under the impression that st was removed from 2.0-RELEASE because of the impending merge. It is a rather dubious practice to remove a very useful utility from the tree because its features will someday be superceded by another utility. st is sorely missed. > Two tape frobbing commands does strike me as more than a little silly, > and `mt' is the historical standard. Actually, there are three tape commands mt, st, and ft. If st is eliminated on historical grounds, then ft should also suffer the same fate. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Laboratory | Fax: 206-543-6785 | University of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 09:51:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28474 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:51:50 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA28468 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:51:49 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA01653; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:47:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199503211747.JAA01653@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at (Marino Ladavac) cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Adaptec sequencer code (was: SVNET Meeting) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:40:25 +0100." <9503211541.AA07308@aut.alcatel.at> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:47:54 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Terry Lambert wrote: >> >> For the purposes of binary distribution, it ought to be easier to >> either get the sequencer code un-GPL'ed, rewrite it, or someone sign >> a non-disclosure with Adaptec and write a binary driver distributed >> soley as .o files. >> >> 8-|. >> > > Since the sequencer code is, as far as I could understand, > just a bunch of raw binary data, is it not itself basically > unreadable (bar disassembly) and as such non disclosing? > > I mean, knowing how they did program the sequencer is nice, > but do we really care that much, as long as it works? We care how they programmed the sequecer so we know how to communicate with it. The abstraction I chose in many of the features I implemented may be a far cry from how Adaptec did it. The sequencer and kernel code are very closely tied. You can't change one without affecting the other. > > I don't know about Adaptec's opinion on distributing only the > object format of the sequencer. Is that kosher? It would have to be a full driver from their HIM kit. > >/Alby > -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 10:09:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29132 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:09:03 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29112; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:08:47 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA21797; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:03:48 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:03:48 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503211803.EAA21797@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? Cc: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> There will have to be a another stage in the boot for 2.1. This >> is not hard to implement, except for the dosboot and possibly the >> netboot. The dosboot and the netboot are already out of date. >> The netboot lacks support for BIOS drive geometries (which is >> essential for correct operation of fdisk and sysinstall) and both >> lack support for BIOS memory sizes. >Say what ? Fdisk and sysinstall now get the disk geometry from the in-core disk label. If there is no on-disk label, then in-core label is faked and depends on the partition table. If there is an on-disk BSD label, then it may have a geometry different from the BIOS geometry. E.g., it may have the geometry printed by the driver probe. Fdisk and sysinstall need to know the correct BIOS geometry to initialize the C/H/S values in the partition table. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 10:10:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29169 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:10:53 -0800 Received: from uhura (slip5.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.5.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29163 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:10:39 -0800 Received: from scotty (scotty [192.168.1.1]) by uhura (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA00221; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:09:49 +0100 Received: (from cg@localhost) by scotty (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA00210; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:09:44 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:09:44 +0100 (MET) From: "DI. Christian Gusenbauer" Reply-To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? In-Reply-To: <199503211316.XAA15950@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Bruce Evans wrote: > >Oh man.... Hmmm... The firmware is < 2k. Its basically an array of > >byte values that the driver dumps to the card. The current setup > >is the best setup except that it contaminates the GENERIC kernel > >(ie, if someone decides its okay for them to use this driver, it works > >without haveing to do anything special on their part except configure > >for the controller.) If you can think of a way for the driver to > >read in an additional file during boot, then we can distribute the > >firmware separately. > > There will have to be a another stage in the boot for 2.1. This > is not hard to implement, except for the dosboot and possibly the > netboot. The dosboot and the netboot are already out of date. > The netboot lacks support for BIOS drive geometries (which is > essential for correct operation of fdisk and sysinstall) and both > lack support for BIOS memory sizes. Yes, I know that the dosboot is out of date. But there were so many changes to the boot code, that I stopped updating dosboot. Every time I started updating I received changes for the boot code (have you ever heard from a guy called "Sisyphos" ;-) Bruce, just send me mail and I start updating again! The BIOS memory support is a special problem for dosboot, because memory managers like 386max don't give me the right values. 386max for example tells me that there is *no high mem* available! > > Bruce > -- Christian. cg@fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 10:14:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29272 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:14:32 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29262; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:14:12 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA21938; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:11:13 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:11:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503211811.EAA21938@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap Cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, julian@tfs.com, moto@CS.cmu.edu, phk@ref.tfs.com, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I was under the impression that we were going to merge st and mt together, >> and that this was the reason for not bringing st over in the first place. >I was under the impression that st was removed from 2.0-RELEASE because >of the impending merge. It is a rather dubious practice to remove a st has never been in 2.x. It is in 1.1.5, and no one got around to bringing it over. >Actually, there are three tape commands mt, st, and ft. If st is >eliminated on historical grounds, then ft should also suffer the same >fate. ft is quite different from the others. mt and st have little more than ioctls, while ft handles blocking and error correction of data. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 10:16:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA29300 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:16:38 -0800 Received: from SIRIUS.COM (terra.sirius.com [140.174.229.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA29294 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:16:37 -0800 Received: from slip214.sirius.com by SIRIUS.COM (NX5.67e/NX3.16M) id AA19209; Tue, 21 Mar 95 10:16:25 -0800 Message-Id: <9503211816.AA19209@SIRIUS.COM> X-Sender: rsoles@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:23:02 -0800 To: "matthew c. mead" From: rsoles@SIRIUS.COM (Roger L Soles) Subject: Re: 66 -> 80 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd advise against it... I have problems with an AMD586dx2 80 (5volt) overheating (machine acts strangely). This chip was designed to work at 80. The newer 3v AMD 80's do not exhibit this problem, and cost around $130.00. If you motherboard supports a 3v processor, you might consider the upgrade and sell your existing processor to defray the costs. BTW: the machine that overheats with the AMD 80 has a CPU cooling fan, two case fans, and a power supply fan -- most of the time it work OK, never has a problem at 66... Also, one other thing -- when you run at 80 your bus clock will be 40 -- that can cause problems with some local bus cards if your MB isn't designed to accomodate it. - Roger > Has anyone ever clocked a 486dx2/66 up to 80? I'm considering doing this >on my FreeBSD box. > > >-matt > >-- >Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - > -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration >Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other >---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- > > //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Roger L Soles // PO Box 280785 // San Francisco, CA 94124-0785 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 11:14:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00339 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:14:56 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA00332 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:14:55 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: fwd without comment To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:14:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503211643.IAA17307@violet.berkeley.edu> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 08:43:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 447 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > heard that the networking code in these O/Ss doesn't comply with various > requirements for routers. > > I'd also appreciate any information regarding the following:- > [actual questions deleted] I'd be interested in seeing the answers to this set of questions is someone takes the time to do a good response.. I know all the obvious ones, but I don't know what we support in the way of MIBs etc and IPX? no idea about that.. julian > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 11:27:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00597 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:27:15 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA00590; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:27:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Steven G Kargl cc: julian@tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 09:40:38 PST." <199503211740.JAA14482@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:27:12 -0800 Message-ID: <589.795814032@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, there are three tape commands mt, st, and ft. If st is > eliminated on historical grounds, then ft should also suffer the same > fate. Wrong. mt & st are control commands. ft should vanish into the device driver itself. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 11:36:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00746 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:36:32 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00738; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:36:25 -0800 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id OAA05684; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:36:08 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id OAA28920; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:36:07 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:36:07 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: gj@FreeBSD.org cc: chuckr%Glue.umd.edu@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com wrote: > > I missed your original comment about the rest being on any linux archive, > > so I began cehcking with archie and struck out. When I went back and > > finally saw your comment, I got the rest from sunsite, I have it > > installed and working, and I am thunderstuck! > > > > This is precisely what I was looking for, thanks ever so much! > > Glad to be of assistance. It is nice, isn't it ? The author is > planning to issue a new version this year and I'll then contribute > a tgdb_wish for FreeBSD. I think that people oughta know about this....the interface that the tgdb package provides to the gdb debugger is so graphical! And useful, colorful, this is the most useful debugger I've seen. Anyone else interested, I'll be glad to go over what I had to do to get it running. I sure recommend looking at tgdb, even if you're not in the middle of a development project, just to see a really neat example of a tcl based application. Unlike ups, it didn't have any incompatibilities with the existing gdb version, it just uses it, not recompiles it. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 11:42:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00857 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:42:04 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA00849 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:42:03 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:40:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, julian@tfs.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: <589.795814032@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 11:27:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 342 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The st command should and will merge back, but it's quite a job, because the scsi tape driver has quite a lot of differences from the standard dumb tape model. the format of the status struct is radically different and it will take a day or so to merge them back.. in the meanwhile st(1 or 8) is too useful to not have available. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 11:42:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00881 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:42:42 -0800 Received: from Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (root@starbase.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.6.26]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00873 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:42:39 -0800 Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@glenn-slip44.nmt.edu [129.138.5.144]) by Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA14771; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:41:29 -0600 X-Provider: NeoSoft, Inc.: Internet Service Provider (713) 684-5969 Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) id MAA13167; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:41:15 -0700 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199503211941.MAA13167@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: Re: fwd without comment To: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:41:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, swhite@gov.za In-Reply-To: <199503211643.IAA17307@violet.berkeley.edu> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 08:43:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1772 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!iafrica.com!ticsa.com!xwing.wcape.gov.za!swhite > From: swhite@xwing.wcape.gov.za (Sean White) > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc > Subject: FreeBSD or Linux as a router > Date: 21 Mar 1995 15:56:40 GMT > Organization: Internet Africa > Lines: 44 > Message-ID: <3kmsvo$m8i@grovel.iafrica.com> > NNTP-Posting-Host: xwing.wcape.gov.za > X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] > > Hi! > > Could anybody give me some good reasons why I shouldn't allow people to > use PC's running FreeBSD/NetBSD or Linux as routers on our network? I'd > heard that the networking code in these O/Ss doesn't comply with various > requirements for routers. > > I'd also appreciate any information regarding the following:- > > (1) Would such a router be compatible with our present cisco > routers? Depends on which cisco you have.... > > (3) Our network management system uses Cabletron's SPECTRUM > software. Would such a router have a SNMP MIB (MIB-II) > available that could be used by SPECTRUM? snmp support has been ported to general BSD arena > > (4) We have taken a decision to only use OSPF as routing > protocol on the network. Would a FreeBSD/NetBSD/Linux > system used as a router be able to run OSPF? Would > it be able to exchange routing information with our > cisco routers? Yes, if it runs gated. > > (6) Can packet filters be put in place for IP and IPX protocols > in particular? ip: totally. > > (7) Would reconfiguration require rebooting or otherwise > interrupting the flow of traffic on such a router? major routing changes could be made via changes in gated which does not require a reboot, if you want to add/remove cards, then you totally need to reboot. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 11:47:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA01012 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:47:25 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA01001; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:47:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, phk@ref.tfs.com, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:40:44 PST." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: <1000.795815243@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The st command should and will merge back, but it's quite a job, because > the scsi tape driver has quite a lot of differences from > the standard dumb tape model. Well, it sounds like phk is already thinking of importing it and if he doesn't, I won't fight. I'll grumble, but I won't fight it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 12:00:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA01414 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:00:24 -0800 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA01408 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:00:20 -0800 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA03653 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:57:44 -0500 From: Wankle Rotary Engine Message-Id: <199503211957.OAA03653@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: How should I do this? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:57:40 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3559 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've finally started to add support for special +@netgroup/-@netgroup substitution in the password database and I've found myself in a quandry. For those who may not know, systems with NIS capability (well, the ones I'm familiar with at least -- SunOS, Solaris, IRIX, HPUX, and even Sony NEWS-OS) allow you to have special entries in your passwd file that look like this: +@rejected-users::32767:32767:Rejected!:/tmp:/usr/local/etc/go-away +@allowed-users:::::: -@silently-rejected-users:*:32767:32767:Rejected!:/tmp:/bin/false People in the 'allowed-users' netgroup will be permitted to log in normally. People in the 'rejected-users' netgroup will be let in, but their UID and GID will be remapped to 32767 and their shell will be remapped to /usr/local/etc/go-away, which is a nastygram program or script that tells them they aren't allowed on this system. Once the program/shell terminates, they get tossed out on their ears. The 'silently-rejected-users' will be denied access outright. (The dummy fields shouldn't be needed for minus entries, but it doesn't hurt to be paranoid.) This permits administrators (like me :) to set up access control for groups of NIS client machines. My plan is to have the getpwent functions cache these special entries so that they can be prepared to match usernames against them quickly. The problem is generating the caches. I've thought of two ways to do it: 1) Do everything in getpwent.c: use the _PW_KEYBYNUM access method to scan through each line in the password database and weed out the special entries. Cons: - The advantage of having a hashed password database goes flying out the window. Pros: - Don't have to change anything except libc. - Since this feature would only be used when YP was turned on, and since when YP is turned on the local password database tends to be fairly small, the speed hit involved should be minimal. 2) Change pwd_mkdb to store special key/data pairs in the password databases if it finds special +@netgroup/-@netgroup entries in the raw master.passwd file. The getpwent routines can then extract the special entries directly. Some extra tags, _PW_PLUSBYNUM and _PW_MINUSBYNUM, would be needed. A _PW_HAVEPLUS and _PW_HAVEMINUS would be nice too, though I think I can get by without them. Cons: - Need to change more things: libc (getpwent.c), pwd.h and pwd_mkdb. Pros: - Overall, it should be much faster than a sequential search (and, as with the other method, the search is only done at all if YP is enabled). - Somehow it seems more elegant than the other solution. :) On the one hand, I'd kind of like to restrict the changes to libc, since that's where this stuff is supposed to go. On the other hand, it would be a little silly not to use the database system. I'm leaning towards solution #2 at the moment, but I want to find out if other people think this is a good idea. Basically, I can't decide, so I'm hoping for some strongly-voiced opinioms to sway me. :) -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Tue Mar 14 11:11:25 EST 1995 ~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 12:57:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA02956 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:57:09 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA02950; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:57:07 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA01911; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:56:18 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503212056.MAA01911@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:56:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199503211803.EAA21797@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 22, 95 04:03:48 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1118 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> There will have to be a another stage in the boot for 2.1. This > >> is not hard to implement, except for the dosboot and possibly the > >> netboot. The dosboot and the netboot are already out of date. > >> The netboot lacks support for BIOS drive geometries (which is > >> essential for correct operation of fdisk and sysinstall) and both > >> lack support for BIOS memory sizes. > > >Say what ? > > Fdisk and sysinstall now get the disk geometry from the in-core disk > label. If there is no on-disk label, then in-core label is faked and > depends on the partition table. If there is an on-disk BSD label, then > it may have a geometry different from the BIOS geometry. E.g., it may > have the geometry printed by the driver probe. Fdisk and sysinstall > need to know the correct BIOS geometry to initialize the C/H/S values > in the partition table. The bios geometry is already read in the bootblocks. do a "boot -v" -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 12:59:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA03205 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:59:27 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA03199; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:59:26 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA01947; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:59:21 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503212059.MAA01947@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:59:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@tfs.com, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: <1000.795815243@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 11:47:23 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 550 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The st command should and will merge back, but it's quite a job, because > > the scsi tape driver has quite a lot of differences from > > the standard dumb tape model. > > Well, it sounds like phk is already thinking of importing it and if he > doesn't, I won't fight. I'll grumble, but I won't fight it. > I'll import unless somebody merges before I get to it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 13:27:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA03973 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:27:34 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03965 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:27:29 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA02764 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:23:00 GMT Message-Id: <199503211323.NAA02764@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:36:07 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:22:56 +0000 From: User & Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some tidbits on how I managed to build tgdb on FreeBSD. I found tgdb at: wcarchive.cdrom.com:/.4/linux/sunsite/devel/debuggers/tgdb-1.1.src.tgz >From the INSTALL notes: To build tgdb_wish, the Tcl/Tk interpreter for tgdb's code, the following packages are needed: tcl7.3 tk3.6 (or tk3.6pl1) tclX7.3a (or tclX7.3b) BLT1.3 (or newer) TkSteal3.6c (or newer) expect5.3 (or newer) ------------- In freebsd.cdrom.com, you will find patches for blt, tcl, tk, tclX: wcarchive.cdrom.com:/.11/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/x11/tk wcarchive.cdrom.com:/.11/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/x11/blt wcarchive.cdrom.com:/.11/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/lang/tcl wcarchive.cdrom.com:/.11/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/lang/tclX wcarchive.cdrom.com:/.11/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/lang/expect I untar all the packages to /usr/local/src: star-gate# ls /usr/local/src TkSteal expect-5.13 tclX7.3b blt-1.7 tcl7.3 tk3.6 (don't use blt-1.7) Apply all the respective patches to the packages. Go to each sub-directories in the following order tcl7.3, tk3.6,tclX7.3b, blt-1.7, expect-5.13 and execute: ./configure make make install To configure TkSteal: ./configure -with-expect -with-blt -with-tclX make make install The resulting wish is all that you now need to run tgdb :) When making tgdb, the make file will need to use bash and of course gnu's make. Is a cool debugger however it needs a bit more work to make it look as good as exmh which of course I am using right now :) Have fun, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 13:47:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA04765 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:47:05 -0800 Received: from server.iadfw.net (server.iadfw.net [204.178.72.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA04754; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:46:58 -0800 From: jbryant@server.iadfw.net Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by server.iadfw.net (8.6.9/8.6.6) id PAA23793; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:46:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199503212146.PAA23793@server.iadfw.net> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:46:52 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <589.795814032@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 11:27:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 932 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:27:12 -0800 > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > Actually, there are three tape commands mt, st, and ft. If st is > > eliminated on historical grounds, then ft should also suffer the same > > fate. > > Wrong. mt & st are control commands. ft should vanish into the device > driver itself. Exactly what do you mean by that? I have been hacking a FULLY QIC compat backup/restore [i.e., QIC-40/80, and 113 style filesets] program for some time now for FreeBSD. Would such a change in any way effect my work? Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@server.iadfw.net, System administrator, Internet America From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 13:54:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA05000 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:54:29 -0800 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA04983 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 13:54:21 -0800 Received: from sbgrad9.csdept (sbgrad9.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.2.29]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA07419 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:54:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:54:14 -0500 From: Michael Vernick Message-Id: <199503212154.QAA07419@cs.sunysb.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 100 Mbit/Sec Ethernet? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Do we have any drivers for a fast ethernet card? Preferably, one of the PCI cards. mv From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:14:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA05790 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:14:56 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA05781; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:14:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: jbryant@server.iadfw.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 15:46:52 CST." <199503212146.PAA23793@server.iadfw.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:14:54 -0800 Message-ID: <5780.795824094@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Wrong. mt & st are control commands. ft should vanish into the device > > driver itself. > > Exactly what do you mean by that? I have been hacking a FULLY QIC compat > backup/restore [i.e., QIC-40/80, and 113 style filesets] program for some > time now for FreeBSD. Would such a change in any way effect my work? I mean that having both a device driver (/dev/ft0) and a special user-agent for dealing with it (ft) violates the UNIX principle of least surprise. I should be able to do: tar cvf /dev/ft0 And have it just work. The fact that /dev/rst0 and /dev/rmt0 both do this only leads the new user further down the garden path. Actually, I think if you do a tar cvf /dev/ft0 at this point you will panic your system! Not quite user-friendly enough yet! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:15:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA05848 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:15:22 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05823 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:15:17 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA06116; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:12:46 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503212212.OAA06116@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 100 Mbit/Sec Ethernet? To: vernick@CS.SunySB.EDU (Michael Vernick) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:12:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503212154.QAA07419@cs.sunysb.edu> from "Michael Vernick" at Mar 21, 95 04:54:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 967 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Do we have any drivers for a fast ethernet card? Preferably, > one of the PCI cards. >From the person who wrote the driver for the board in response to my inquiry about price and source. The ``25% higher'' is in reference to the Intel EtherExpress 100 which we do not have a driver for and the person who was working on it has given up and ordered a bunch of the DEC cards: :> > The DEC card is $249 which is "only" about 25% higher. :-) :> :> Ahh... I take it that this is the DECdirect price on it? Or is there some :> one else like Ingram Micro that is carrying these now (last time I checked :> they did not have this part number in there data base :-(). : :That's the DECdirect price. The p/n is DE500-XA. I am waiting on email from someone, I may have another source on these besied DECdirect. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:20:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA06064 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:20:30 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA06051; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:20:27 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA02338; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:20:22 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503212220.OAA02338@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:20:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: jbryant@server.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <5780.795824094@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 02:14:54 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 467 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I mean that having both a device driver (/dev/ft0) and a special > user-agent for dealing with it (ft) violates the UNIX principle of > least surprise. I should be able to do: > > tar cvf /dev/ft0 Find somebody willing to do it, and Jesus Monroy Junior doesn't count. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:20:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA06075 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:20:38 -0800 Received: from netcom23.netcom.com (bakul@netcom23.netcom.com [192.100.81.137]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA06069 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:20:37 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id OAA06045; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:19:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199503212219.OAA06045@netcom23.netcom.com> To: User & cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 13:22:56 GMT." <199503211323.NAA02764@star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 14:19:06 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I found tgdb at: > wcarchive.cdrom.com:/.4/linux/sunsite/devel/debuggers/tgdb-1.1.src.tgz > >From the INSTALL notes: > To build tgdb_wish, the Tcl/Tk interpreter for tgdb's code, the following > packages are needed: > tcl7.3 > tk3.6 (or tk3.6pl1) > tclX7.3a (or tclX7.3b) > BLT1.3 (or newer) > TkSteal3.6c (or newer) > expect5.3 (or newer) Not to mention gdb, whose latest source tar weighs in at over 4MB gzipped. Boy! This is way too rich a diet for me. Make me yearn for the good ole' days when `ddt' was the king! And `adb' was a worthy successor. Instead, now I need a machine with 16Meg of RAM and 200Meg+ of disk just so that I can debug a 5000 line program (which can be debugged with a few printfs most of the time anyway). Gag me with a spoon! For a refreshingly different take on such things read `ACID: A Debugger based on a Language' by Phil WinterBottom (you can ftp from plan9.att.com). While there also pick up the paper on `Acme: A user Interface for Programmers' by Rob Pike. Also, `The Oberon System', Software Practice and Experience, Sep 1989, Vol 19 #9, pp 857-894. I am sure tgdb is a great program but I just fail to understand why it is so damn hard to write a lean and mean decent debugger. We now return you to your regular program. [Flames to me; I probably deserve them]. Excuse me for gagging in public. Bakul Shah From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:22:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA06174 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:22:12 -0800 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA06165 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:22:09 -0800 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id PAA07374 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:22:02 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199503212222.PAA07374@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: screen fonts To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:22:02 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 162 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! Is there any desire to augment the collection of screen fonts distributed with FBSD (I only have first-hand knowledge of 1.1.5.1R distribution...) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:22:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA06183 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:22:14 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA06172 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:22:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: DEC Direct? Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:22:10 -0800 Message-ID: <6171.795824530@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anybody have a phone number for these yobbos? I want to order one of their new micro-thin laptops! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:33:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA06606 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:33:56 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA06600 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:33:53 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA03676 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:29:27 GMT Message-Id: <199503211429.OAA03676@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:19:06 PST." <199503212219.OAA06045@netcom23.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:29:25 +0000 From: User & Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Not to mention gdb, whose latest source tar weighs in at > over 4MB gzipped. > Yeah, I know is huge. After a little while I just throw my hands on the air I say well you know that famous f word or the GNU project has invested heavily on hardware companies :) If it matters, I use tgdb with my installed gdb . Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:35:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA06668 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:35:40 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA06662 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:35:39 -0800 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id RAA12484; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 17:35:33 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id RAA00822; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 17:35:32 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 17:35:31 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: User & cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-Reply-To: <199503211323.NAA02764@star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, User & wrote: > > I untar all the packages to /usr/local/src: > star-gate# ls /usr/local/src > TkSteal expect-5.13 tclX7.3b > blt-1.7 tcl7.3 tk3.6 > > (don't use blt-1.7) Amancio: BLT-1.7 does indeed cause the help screen to die. I can't find a location on BLT-1.3 with archie...d'you happen to know of one? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:47:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA07093 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:47:55 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA07086; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:47:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Don Yuniskis cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: screen fonts In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 15:22:02 MST." <199503212222.PAA07374@seagull.rtd.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:47:53 -0800 Message-ID: <7085.795826073@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, all I know is that Linux has this really great (for lack of a better description) "cerebral palsy" font. You could also be more politically correct and call it a "child of 3" font, I suppose. Either way it looks just terrible, which means of course that 4 our of 5 SlackWare users use it (they're rebels - you can tell by the way they all dress the same and pretend not to look at one another :-). If you want to do a similar font for FreeBSD, I don't suppose anyone would physically try to stop you.. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:52:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA07211 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:52:09 -0800 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA07205; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:52:07 -0800 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id PAA08741; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:52:00 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199503212252.PAA08741@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: screen fonts To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:52:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <7085.795826073@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 02:47:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 283 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you want to do a similar font for FreeBSD, I don't suppose anyone > would physically try to stop you.. :) Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of providing pointers to screen font collections I've stumbled across and let someone else cull out the fonts of interest... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 14:58:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09237 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:58:55 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09231; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:58:53 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA00578; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:58:46 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA00398; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:58:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199503212258.OAA00398@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC Direct? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 14:22:10 PST." <6171.795824530@freefall.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 14:58:45 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Anybody have a phone number for these yobbos? I want to order one of their >new micro-thin laptops! 1-800-DIGITAL -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 15:16:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA09899 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:16:18 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA09893; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:16:15 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA06350; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:13:52 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503212313.PAA06350@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DEC Direct? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:13:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <6171.795824530@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 02:22:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 278 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anybody have a phone number for these yobbos? I want to order one of their > new micro-thin laptops! 1-800-DIGITAL -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 15:38:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA10478 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:38:06 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA10472 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:38:02 -0800 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id SAA14553; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:37:52 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id SAA01329; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:37:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:37:51 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Bakul Shah cc: User & , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-Reply-To: <199503212219.OAA06045@netcom23.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Bakul Shah wrote: > > To build tgdb_wish, the Tcl/Tk interpreter for tgdb's code, the following > > packages are needed: > > > tcl7.3 > > tk3.6 (or tk3.6pl1) > > tclX7.3a (or tclX7.3b) > > BLT1.3 (or newer) > > TkSteal3.6c (or newer) > > expect5.3 (or newer) > > Not to mention gdb, whose latest source tar weighs in at > over 4MB gzipped. > > Boy! This is way too rich a diet for me. Make me yearn for > the good ole' days when `ddt' was the king! And `adb' was a > worthy successor. Instead, now I need a machine with 16Meg > of RAM and 200Meg+ of disk just so that I can debug a 5000 > line program (which can be debugged with a few printfs most > of the time anyway). Gag me with a spoon! Yeah, but gdb is the only public domain debugger available, and it does one whale of a lot more than sdb or adb or dbx or whatever did. Anyways, my point is, the tgdb thing is a relatively tiny frill on that, with enormous effect. All the packages listed above, which gives you a really useful wish shell, make up about 1.1 megs statically linked (ask me later about dynamic sizes, I hope to do that), but the actual tgdb tcl code is pretty tiny. The tgdb stuff, which is interpreted (so it doesn't get compiled) is only 136k gzipped. That's relatively miniscule against the gdb whale. Some folks use that whale to death, I guess I'd rather have too much tool than too little. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 15:55:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11006 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:55:05 -0800 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11000; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:55:03 -0800 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA02557; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:54:57 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199503212354.SAA02557@goof.com> Subject: Re: DEC Direct? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:54:56 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <6171.795824530@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 02:22:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 525 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Anybody have a phone number for these yobbos? I want to order one of their > new micro-thin laptops! 1-800-DIGITAL. What's with the the micro-thin laptops, I've not hear of them... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 15:57:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11060 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:57:34 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA11053; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:57:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Chuck Robey cc: Bakul Shah , User & , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 18:37:51 EST." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:57:32 -0800 Message-ID: <11052.795830252@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yeah, but gdb is the only public domain debugger available, and it does > one whale of a lot more than sdb or adb or dbx or whatever did. Anyways, > my point is, the tgdb thing is a relatively tiny frill on that, with [Angry mob]: "Port! Port! Enough fine words! Give us a PORT!" :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 16:00:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11112 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:00:30 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA10819 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:51:32 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28866; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:51:01 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id AAA08394 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:51:00 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA06700 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:38:57 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503212338.AAA06700@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: edit-pr To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:38:55 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503212228.WAA02373@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Mar 21, 95 10:28:50 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 901 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Paul Richards wrote: > > > What about `devel'? Should be shipped to the CVS suppers/ctmers, but > > not go into the regular distribution. > > In principle though I think a separate cvs tree for our development code > has some merits and some problems. I do not object against feeding back our changes to the maintainers. But i've got two goals in mind: if we've got things fixed that have really been bugging us, we wanna get them in effect ASAP. And there might also be stuff were we are completely at our own to maintain it. See my easy-import script (phk once called for it:), i've put it under .../cvs/contrib by now, but since it's not from the original cvs source this is a rather bogus place to go. [Moved the thread from -bugs to -hackers.] -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 16:01:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11147 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:01:12 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA10853 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 15:52:06 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28394; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:22:26 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id AAA08235 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:22:26 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA03000 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:00:30 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503212300.AAA03000@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:00:28 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503210750.XAA29958@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 20, 95 11:50:13 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1072 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > Could you try to use "tcopy /dev/rmt0" to verify the blocksize ? > > > > if we distributed the 'st' utility like we should, > > WHAT ?? I thought that had gone in LONG time ago ??? > > Ok, > unless somebody wants to merge this into "mt", really fast, I'm > going to commit Julians code M-x forms-find-file Forms file: ~/txt/plain/TODO (several page-down's) ================================== TODO list ================================== Title of entry: merge st(1) into mt(1) Status: Open Priority: Medium Scheduled: Wed Mar 1 16:06:16 1995 Closed: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Description: Merge the added functionality from the 1.1.5.1 st(1) program into mt(1). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As you can see, it's really still on my TODO list... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 16:02:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11172 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:02:01 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA11165; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:02:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: "matthew c. mead" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC Direct? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 18:54:56 EST." <199503212354.SAA02557@goof.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:01:59 -0800 Message-ID: <11164.795830519@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1-800-DIGITAL. What's with the the micro-thin laptops, I've not hear > of them... It's called the new "Ultra" and I'm getting a FAX on possibles right now.. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 16:04:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11240 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:04:55 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA11186 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:02:31 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28482; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:28:50 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id AAA08257; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:28:50 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA05866; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:28:30 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503212328.AAA05866@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: jbryant@server.iadfw.net Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:28:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503212146.PAA23793@server.iadfw.net> from "jbryant@server.iadfw.net" at Mar 21, 95 03:46:52 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 910 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As jbryant@server.iadfw.net wrote: > > In reply: > > Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap > > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:27:12 -0800 > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > > > Actually, there are three tape commands mt, st, and ft. If st is > > > eliminated on historical grounds, then ft should also suffer the same > > > fate. > > > > Wrong. mt & st are control commands. ft should vanish into the device > > driver itself. > > Exactly what do you mean by that? I have been hacking a FULLY QIC compat > backup/restore [i.e., QIC-40/80, and 113 style filesets] program for some > time now for FreeBSD. Would such a change in any way effect my work? IMHO it were better hacking the ft driver doing read/write/strategy IO. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 16:12:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11386 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:12:00 -0800 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA11373; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:11:50 -0800 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02764; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:04:49 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199503220004.TAA02764@goof.com> Subject: Re: DEC Direct? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:04:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11164.795830519@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 04:01:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 563 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > 1-800-DIGITAL. What's with the the micro-thin laptops, I've not hear > > of them... > It's called the new "Ultra" and I'm getting a FAX on possibles right now.. :) Do let us know about costs, CPU options, etc... :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 16:43:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12587 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:43:35 -0800 Received: from netcom3.netcom.com (bakul@[192.100.81.103]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12579 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:43:34 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom3.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id QAA11375; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 16:40:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199503220040.QAA11375@netcom3.netcom.com> To: Chuck Robey cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 18:37:51 EST." Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 16:39:02 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yeah, but gdb is the only public domain debugger available, and it does > one whale of a lot more than sdb or adb or dbx or whatever did. Anyways, > my point is, the tgdb thing is a relatively tiny frill on that, with > enormous effect. All the packages listed above, which gives you a really > useful wish shell, make up about 1.1 megs statically linked (ask me later > about dynamic sizes, I hope to do that), but the actual tgdb tcl code is > pretty tiny. The tgdb stuff, which is interpreted (so it doesn't get > compiled) is only 136k gzipped. That's relatively miniscule against the > gdb whale. Some folks use that whale to death, I guess I'd rather have > too much tool than too little. I can't resist one more comment. Then I will shut up on this subject. You are right that gdb is the (great white) whale, the big elephant that no one wants to see, the big enchilada, the 800 pound gorilla etc. and efforts like tgdb are tiny in comparison. My kneejerk reaction _was_ triggered by the list of things one needed to make/run tgdb but my diatribe is really against gdb. As for size, here is what `size ups' of a *statically* linked ups (on my X11R4 SunOS3.5 Sun3/50) gives me: text data bss dec hex 475136 49152 26860 551148 868ec Along with a very nice GUI and standard debugger facilities, it also gives me the ability to insert C code. Does gdb? Unfortunately, ups-2.45.2 does not run on {Free,Net}BSD. There was a version that ran on 386BSD-0.1 so may be it won't be too hard to make it work.... Ideally one wants a very sparse interface (almost like that of /bin/ed) to a line oriented debugger to which a GUI frontend (like tgdb!) can be attached. -- bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:02:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA15791 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:02:57 -0800 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA15785 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:02:55 -0800 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA01819 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:02:48 -0500 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199503220202.VAA01819@goof.com> Subject: GUS mixer? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:02:48 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 603 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While playing around with mixer.c (from the sndkit), which I was complaining about not being able to change the GUS volume. Well, looking at it some more - the behavior it shows seems to suggest that the GUS driver has no volume control support in the mixer? Can anyone confirm this? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:09:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA15883 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:09:04 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA15877 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:09:03 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA27170 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:08:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:08:57 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199503220208.SAA27170@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: lsdev Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It's a shame that devices don't also have a "class" so that an X window system config program could determine things like mono or color VGA, or a network setup program could identify only "network" devices. How hard would this be to add? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:13:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16094 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:13:11 -0800 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA16076 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:13:09 -0800 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA02519 (5.65.kiae-2 for hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:12:14 +0300 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 22 Mar 95 05:12:11 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id FAA03670 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:10:07 +0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:10:06 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: SDL RISCom/8 FreeBSD driver, any clues? Lines: 10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 496 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I need to write such thing in a short time and I don't want to start from complete zero, does anybody was tried too? If you have any working or semi-working sources, please contact me. Thanx in advance. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:16:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16179 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:16:10 -0800 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16173 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:16:09 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA03697 for hackers@freefall; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:16:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:16:03 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199503220216.SAA03697@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Yes, I'm sick and depraved. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Would anyone object TOO loudly if I hacked echo to understand \c (or \c$ if you're being picky) as a synonym for -n? This would help some of the SCO scripts we'll be dragging over with ibcs2 compat to look a lot nicer, and I can see any real downside.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:21:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16334 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:21:40 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16328 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:21:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02464; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:15:45 GMT Message-Id: <199503211815.SAA02464@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "matthew c. mead" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: GUS mixer? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:02:48 EST." <199503220202.VAA01819@goof.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:15:43 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I really doubt it that the GUS driver does not have any volume control in the mixer but I will check.. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:22:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16345 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:22:56 -0800 Received: from Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16339 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:22:55 -0800 Received: (from digdon@localhost) by Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (8.6.9/8.6.6) id WAA08065 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:21:41 -0400 From: Mike Digdon Message-Id: <199503220221.WAA08065@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Subject: gcc include files To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:21:41 -0400 (AST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 609 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am running 2.0R, which includes gcc 2.6.2. I am trying to compile tin-1.22, but I am having a problem. In line 73 of screen.c, I get an error because sys_errlist is redefined as a different type. In stdio.h, line 244, sys_errlist is defined as: extern __const char *__const sys_errlist[]; In screen.c, it is defined as: extern char *sys_errlist[]; Obviously, the __const is causing the problem. What is this __const? Why is it there? Why is it breaking? -- Mike Digdon # Network Operation Centre # Dalhousie University Phone: +1 902 494-1873 # E-mail: digdon@snoopy.ucis.dal.ca From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:23:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16374 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:23:36 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16364; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:23:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02536; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:19:12 GMT Message-Id: <199503211819.SAA02536@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: lsdev In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:08:57 PST." <199503220208.SAA27170@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:19:10 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's a shame that devices don't also have a "class" so that an X window > system config program could determine things like mono or color VGA, or > a network setup program could identify only "network" devices. > > How hard would this be to add? > Probably not hard, it could part of the system mib. So you can access the info via snmp or sysctl. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 18:41:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA16710 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:41:46 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA16704 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:41:43 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02924; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:37:13 GMT Message-Id: <199503211837.SAA02924@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Mike Digdon cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: gcc include files In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:21:41 -0400." <199503220221.WAA08065@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:37:11 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am running 2.0R, which includes gcc 2.6.2. I am trying to compile > tin-1.22, but I am having a problem. > > In line 73 of screen.c, I get an error because sys_errlist is redefined as a > different type. In stdio.h, line 244, sys_errlist is defined as: > extern __const char *__const sys_errlist[]; > > In screen.c, it is defined as: > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > Is just the most annoying declaration in BSD4.4, the correct fix is to use strerror. I never do over here, I just go thru the files and delete any extern char *sys_errlist[]; Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 19:51:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18246 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:51:26 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18237 for hackers; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:51:23 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:51:23 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199503220351.TAA18237@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: tgdb Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I will join the fans and say that this is one slick little beast! I actually tried to write a gdb front-end myself (xgdb) based on regexp ladders. It sort of worked, but I abandoned it long before getting it to the state these folks have managed. The help front-ending alone is worth the price of admission! Yes, it's big. Yes, it's Tk-ish. If you don't like either of those things then you won't like tgdb. Those that do, however, will find it a treat. I made a package version of it and stuck it on wcarchive. Twas trivial indeed. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 20:08:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA18754 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:08:42 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18747 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:08:39 -0800 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id XAA20520; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:08:32 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id XAA10582; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:08:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Bakul Shah cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-Reply-To: <199503220040.QAA11375@netcom3.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Bakul Shah wrote: > > Yeah, but gdb is the only public domain debugger available, and it does > > one whale of a lot more than sdb or adb or dbx or whatever did. Anyways, > > my point is, the tgdb thing is a relatively tiny frill on that, with > > enormous effect. All the packages listed above, which gives you a really > > useful wish shell, make up about 1.1 megs statically linked (ask me later > > about dynamic sizes, I hope to do that), but the actual tgdb tcl code is > > pretty tiny. The tgdb stuff, which is interpreted (so it doesn't get > > compiled) is only 136k gzipped. That's relatively miniscule against the > > gdb whale. Some folks use that whale to death, I guess I'd rather have > > too much tool than too little. > > I can't resist one more comment. Then I will shut up on this subject. > > You are right that gdb is the (great white) whale, the big > elephant that no one wants to see, the big enchilada, the > 800 pound gorilla etc. and efforts like tgdb are tiny in > comparison. My kneejerk reaction _was_ triggered by the list > of things one needed to make/run tgdb but my diatribe is > really against gdb. As for size, here is what `size ups' of > a *statically* linked ups (on my X11R4 SunOS3.5 Sun3/50) > gives me: > > text data bss dec hex > 475136 49152 26860 551148 868ec > > Along with a very nice GUI and standard debugger facilities, > it also gives me the ability to insert C code. Does gdb? > Unfortunately, ups-2.45.2 does not run on {Free,Net}BSD. > There was a version that ran on 386BSD-0.1 so may be it > won't be too hard to make it work.... > > Ideally one wants a very sparse interface (almost like that > of /bin/ed) to a line oriented debugger to which a GUI > frontend (like tgdb!) can be attached. Bakul, what I think I learned from trying ups on my machine is that ups takes the gdb code, uses perl to massage itself into the insides of it, and spits it back out. Thus, you HAVE to have a running gdb port before you have a ups port. That's why I couldn't get ups running: gdb 4.13 wouldn't compile yet and understand FreeBSD binaries, so ups won't either (it builds you understand, it just doesn't understand the binaries). What you get out of tgdb is a wish shell that is capable of a whole lot more than just tgdb, and an additional amount of tgdb tcl code that isn't a lot. Seems a fair deal, seeing as I was running wish ANYWAYS. Learning wish is a pretty fair way to learn compilers, too (see Ousterhout's great TCL book). I have yet to see ups running, so I can't say more about that, but the size of ups probably isn't on the same order as the tcl code, seeing as its got the entire gdb code inside itself. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 20:12:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA18878 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:12:05 -0800 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18872 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:11:46 -0800 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id NAA14638; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:11:31 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id NAA09743; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:11:29 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA01754; Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:11:29 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rrHsS-000DU5C; Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:18 JST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:06:58 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9503220406.AA11474@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: gcc include files References: <199503220221.WAA08065@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk digdon@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca(Mike Digdon): >In stdio.h, line 244, sys_errlist is defined as: >extern __const char *__const sys_errlist[]; >In screen.c, it is defined as: >extern char *sys_errlist[]; >What is this __const? It tells you that you cannot modify strings pointed to by the array sys_errlist[]. >Why >is it there? Because you *really* cannot modify them. I guess someone thought the fact sould be explicitly stated. >Why is it breaking? The latter declaration asks the compiler to allow you to modify the strings. It contradicts the former. You can just delete the line from screen.c to compile it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 20:14:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA18928 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:14:31 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18920 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:14:28 -0800 Received: from mocha.eng.umd.edu (mocha.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.16]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id XAA20660; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:14:19 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by mocha.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id XAA10639; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:14:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:14:18 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Amancio Hasty cc: Mike Digdon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: gcc include files In-Reply-To: <199503211837.SAA02924@star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 21 Mar 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > I am running 2.0R, which includes gcc 2.6.2. I am trying to compile > > tin-1.22, but I am having a problem. > > > > In line 73 of screen.c, I get an error because sys_errlist is redefined as a > > different type. In stdio.h, line 244, sys_errlist is defined as: > > extern __const char *__const sys_errlist[]; > > > > In screen.c, it is defined as: > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > > > Is just the most annoying declaration in BSD4.4, the correct fix > is to use strerror. I never do over here, I just go thru the files > and delete any extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > Amancio This "fix" to go to const breaks more stuff than you can shake a stick at. Is it really necessary? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 20:19:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA19067 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:19:50 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA19060 for hackers; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:19:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 20:19:48 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199503220419.UAA19060@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: Japanese syscons font? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Has anyone managed to remap their screen enough to display enough common kanji/kana glyphs to be useful? If so, it'd be nice to get it into the distribution for 2.1! What are most of our japanese friends using? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 21:22:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21508 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:22:48 -0800 Received: from ns.gte.com (ns.gte.com [132.197.8.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21483 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:22:46 -0800 Received: by ns.gte.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id AAA16286; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:20:22 -0500 Received: from bunny.gte.com(132.197.8.1) by cliff via smap (V1.3) id sma016254; Wed Mar 22 00:20:14 1995 Received: by bunny.gte.com (8.6.9/GTEL2.19) id AAA02723; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:21:53 -0500 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id XAA06510; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:37:10 GMT Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:37:10 GMT From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199503212337.XAA06510@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Two tape frobbing commands does strike me as more than a little silly, > > and `mt' is the historical standard. > > Actually, there are three tape commands mt, st, and ft. If st is > eliminated on historical grounds, then ft should also suffer the same > fate. Ugh. Ft is very different from mt/st so currently dropping it or rolling it into the ft driver is impossible. Rolling it into a generic tape command isn't a good idea either since at the moment I'm working on changing the driver to behave like a regular mt device with a fixed 1K blocksize. If I can squeeze decent performance out of it and the driver doesn't become extremely huge, hopefully it will vanish. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 21:23:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21588 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:23:16 -0800 Received: from ns.gte.com (ns.gte.com [132.197.8.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21581 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:23:14 -0800 Received: by ns.gte.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id AAA16300; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:20:51 -0500 Received: from bunny.gte.com(132.197.8.1) by cliff via smap (V1.3) id sma016292; Wed Mar 22 00:20:27 1995 Received: by bunny.gte.com (8.6.9/GTEL2.19) id AAA02736; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:22:03 -0500 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id AAA06755; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:15:44 GMT Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:15:44 GMT From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199503220015.AAA06755@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Exactly what do you mean by that? I have been hacking a FULLY QIC compat > > backup/restore [i.e., QIC-40/80, and 113 style filesets] program for some > > time now for FreeBSD. Would such a change in any way effect my work? I plan on keeping the ioctl()'s to directly read and write tape segments around so your backup/restore program should still work. I started writing a backup program myself but I never finished it. If you'd like the source drop me a note and I'll send it off. > I mean that having both a device driver (/dev/ft0) and a special > user-agent for dealing with it (ft) violates the UNIX principle of > least surprise. I should be able to do: > > tar cvf /dev/ft0 > > And have it just work. The fact that /dev/rst0 and /dev/rmt0 both do > this only leads the new user further down the garden path. This is in progress, and it has some advantages and disadvantages. On the positive side, usage will be consistent with other tape drives. Since ECC support is moved into the driver, I can now perform some low level error recovery that the current driver is unable to do. While I'm in doing this stuff I'm trying very hard to eliminate the strange state machines within the driver as well. On the negative side, the driver is going to be much larger than it currently is. I also expect that the tape drive will not stream very well. (Ages ago the driver used strategy() for its work instead of ioctls and performed poorly, but this may have improved.) The last drawback is that with tar or dump you lose the ability to random access files on the tape. A QIC-40/80 backup program does this by storing the entire file directory at the front of a saved set. > Actually, I think if you do a tar cvf /dev/ft0 at this point you will > panic your system! Not quite user-friendly enough yet! :-) I'll have to check this in 2.0. On my 1.1.5 system I just get I/O errors. I do have some questions about what some correct magtape behaviors are, so if someone familiar with wt and st would raise their hand I would be grateful. :-) One concern I have is regarding tape length. It looks like dump wants to calculate the tape length in advance to avoid reaching end of media. QIC-40/80 tape drives have a variable number of blocks, depending upon how many have been marked bad, so how would I get a decent length? Is it a problem for dump to just fall off the end of the tape? - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 21:34:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21945 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:34:08 -0800 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21939; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:34:05 -0800 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA11765; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:04:30 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:04:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199503220504.VAA11765@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <199503220419.UAA19060@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Has anyone managed to remap their screen enough to display enough * common kanji/kana glyphs to be useful? I'll ask it on the mailing list for porting Japanese software. Somebody there might know.... * If so, it'd be nice to get it into the distribution for 2.1! * What are most of our japanese friends using? X + mule/kterm for me, as I don't use the console except for logging in, Japanese or no Japanese.... :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 22:20:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA22773 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:20:21 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA22766; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:20:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 21:04:30 PST." <199503220504.VAA11765@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:20:20 -0800 Message-ID: <22765.795853220@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > X + mule/kterm for me, as I don't use the console except for logging > in, Japanese or no Japanese.... :) Well, this is for sysinstall. If it's possible to bring those dialogs up in Japanese, we should do so! I've asked Barry to restart the little XPG3 message catalog project he had going.. I'm not sure if they're sufficient for non-european languages, but it's a start. The Japanese version can always be done seperately. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 22:21:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA22805 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:21:50 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22799 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:21:49 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01180; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:21:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199503220621.WAA01180@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:15:44 GMT." <199503220015.AAA06755@genesis.tiac.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:21:30 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> tar cvf /dev/ft0 >> >> And have it just work. The fact that /dev/rst0 and /dev/rmt0 both do >> this only leads the new user further down the garden path. > >This is in progress, and it has some advantages and disadvantages. On >the positive side, usage will be consistent with other tape drives. >Since ECC support is moved into the driver, I can now perform some >low level error recovery that the current driver is unable to do. >While I'm in doing this stuff I'm trying very hard to eliminate the >strange state machines within the driver as well. > >On the negative side, the driver is going to be much larger than it >currently is. I also expect that the tape drive will not stream very >well. (Ages ago the driver used strategy() for its work instead of >ioctls and performed poorly, but this may have improved.) The >last drawback is that with tar or dump you lose the ability to >random access files on the tape. A QIC-40/80 backup program does >this by storing the entire file directory at the front of a saved set. I believe that someone in the linux camp added support for this into gtar. >- Steve >steve2@genesis.tiac.net -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 22:52:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA24606 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:52:02 -0800 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA24600 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:52:02 -0800 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0rrKGn-0000N4C; Tue, 21 Mar 95 22:51 PST Received: (from mdavis@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA01570 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:51:59 -0800 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199503220651.WAA01570@io.cts.com> Subject: sio overruns To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:51:59 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 662 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI: I've got a device connected to a serial port (a BBS) that requires DCD up all the time. However, every now and then a caller connects to the port via cu and drops carrier. The cu processes don't go away, and when the BBS sends data to the port, it triggers sio overrun errors. These overruns cause FreeBSD 2.1d0 to freak out (a technical term that means that pulling a ps will lock up the machine). I can access /proc, but a ps will hang that process. I can get logged in elsewhere, but it's tough to find PIDs to kill the hung sessions. All you can really do is down the machine. I didn't have this problem until I hooked up a BBS to the serial port. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 23:09:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA25229 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:09:16 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA25218; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:09:12 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA07390; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:07:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199503220707.AAA07390@rover.village.org> To: Nate Williams Subject: Re: Stack trace routine for running programs Cc: Dave Waddell , current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 09 Mar 1995 15:02:11 MST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:07:22 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : On certain OS's, but not on SCO or SunOS 4. They are too old for that : feature to work. It works on newer BSD systems, and systems based on SVR4, : but not on the old beats I have here. I know that at least one debugger on SunOS 4 could attach to an arbitrary pid and tell you where it was. I thought that gdb could do that as well.... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 23:43:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA26048 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:43:57 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA26041; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:43:30 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA06611; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:41:06 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:41:06 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503220741.RAA06611@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? Cc: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The bios geometry is already read in the bootblocks. do a "boot -v" I know about this, but other people may not, and fdisk and sysinstall certainly don't. There is no standard interface to the info, and the programs don't try to read it from kmem. Even if they did, they can't rely on it because old boot loaders and the netboot loader don't initialize it. "boot -v" prints the info in th following human-unreadable form: BIOS geometries: 0:3f63f20 1:3ff3f20 2:4f010f 3:4f010f 4:4f010f 5:4f010f 6:4f010f 7:4f010f 0 accounted for Explanation: BIOS geometries: 0:3f63f20 Hard disk 0 (SCSI but you can't tell). 0x20 heads, 0x3f + 1 sectors, 0x3f6 cylinders. (Actually there are 0x3f7 cylinders. I used to wonder why DOS didn't use the last one.) There should be a newline after the first `:'. 1:3ff3f20 Hard disk 1 (SCSI). 0x20 heads, 0x3f + 1 sectors, 0x3ff cylinders. (Actually there are 4076 cylinders. DOS can't see the cylinders >= 1024 (or even cylinder 1023). The 4076 should be printed by the sd probe so that it gets printed somewhere.) 2:4f010f 3:4f010f 4:4f010f 5:4f010f 6:4f010f 7:4f010f These entries are bogus. They are caused by punting the error handling in the boot. 0 accounted for The sd driver doesn't look at the BIOS geometry so the 2 SCSI drives aren't accounted for. wd drives would be accounted for in rare cases. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Mar 21 23:51:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA26158 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:51:24 -0800 Received: from netcom16.netcom.com (bakul@netcom16.netcom.com [192.100.81.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA26152 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:51:23 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom16.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id XAA22212; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:49:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199503220749.XAA22212@netcom16.netcom.com> To: Chuck Robey cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 95 23:08:31 EST." Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 23:49:56 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Bakul, what I think I learned from trying ups on my machine is that ups > takes the gdb code, uses perl to massage itself into the insides of it, > and spits it back out. The one that mucks with gdb, perl etc. is ups-3.6 or 3.7; the one I have running on the Sun is ups-2.45.2 -- it does not use gdb. I will try make it run on *BSD so that y'all can see what it's like. -- bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:04:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA26389 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:04:13 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA26383 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:04:10 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08343; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:59:21 GMT Message-Id: <199503212359.XAA08343@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Bakul Shah cc: Chuck Robey , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:49:56 PST." <199503220749.XAA22212@netcom16.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:59:18 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Bakul, what I think I learned from trying ups on my machine is that ups > > takes the gdb code, uses perl to massage itself into the insides of it, > > and spits it back out. > > The one that mucks with gdb, perl etc. is ups-3.6 or 3.7; > the one I have running on the Sun is ups-2.45.2 -- it does > not use gdb. I will try make it run on *BSD so that y'all > can see what it's like. > Look there is a great merit to tgdb in the form that the GUI can be easily modified to suit our needs and of course you are welcome to modify the look and feel of ups. As for the laundry list to build tgdb is not that long for the tcl/tk people because most of them will have all the extensions except for TkSteal and is no big deal to build TkSteal. I was one of the first to port ups to 386bsd and I rarely use it. Don't get me wrong, I like ups and for that matter tgdb needs work. I just think that is less of a hazzle to have tgdb than ups with gdb included. Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:07:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA26451 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:07:56 -0800 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (root@ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA26441 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:07:53 -0800 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA26806 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:07:38 +0100 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA02324; Wed, 22 Mar 95 09:06:45 +0100 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9503220806.AA02324@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: Yes, I'm sick and depraved. To: jkh@FreeBSD.org (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 9:06:44 MET Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503220216.SAA03697@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 6:16 pm X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Would anyone object TOO loudly if I hacked echo to understand \c (or \c$ if > you're being picky) as a synonym for -n? No... > This would help some of the SCO scripts we'll be dragging over with ibcs2 > compat to look a lot nicer, and I can see any real downside.. ^ You mean not right :-) | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:16:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA26582 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:16:35 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA26576; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:16:33 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA04410; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:15:49 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503220815.AAA04410@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SVNET Meeting? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:15:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199503220741.RAA06611@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 22, 95 05:41:06 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 749 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The bios geometry is already read in the bootblocks. do a "boot -v" > > I know about this, but other people may not, and fdisk and sysinstall > certainly don't. There is no standard interface to the info, and > the programs don't try to read it from kmem. Even if they did, they > can't rely on it because old boot loaders and the netboot loader don't > initialize it. I know. I did it. I was merely trying to point out that we >DO< have the info. Also the strangeness of the format is because I didn't want to do more work in the bootblocks than I had to. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:20:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA26702 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:20:58 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA26665 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:20:06 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10714; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:52:13 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id IAA11217 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:52:12 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA13498 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:49:27 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503220749.IAA13498@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: gcc include files To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:49:26 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 21, 95 11:14:18 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1136 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chuck Robey wrote: > > > Is just the most annoying declaration in BSD4.4, the correct fix > > is to use strerror. I never do over here, I just go thru the files > > and delete any extern char *sys_errlist[]; > This "fix" to go to const breaks more stuff than you can shake a stick at. > Is it really necessary? No, from the sense of things, the stuff *is* already broken. It should never have declared sys_errlist[] itself (and instead use the declaration from the header file). This bug only got apparent by 4.4BSD correctly declaring the array to consist of constant strings. (The improper duplicate declaration might have been lurking around for years in those programs. You'll only detect it when calling gcc with -Wredundant-decls.) For the question ``Is it really necessary?'': this is probably a matter of taste. What do you like more? A compiler warning/error when trying to modify a constant object (due to an oversight of the programmer), or the core dump at run time? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:24:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA26772 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:24:11 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA26735 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:22:54 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11592; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:21:40 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA11443 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:21:39 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA13786 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:12:32 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503220812.JAA13786@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:12:31 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503220015.AAA06755@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Mar 22, 95 00:15:44 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1635 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Steve Gerakines wrote: > > I do have some questions about what some correct magtape behaviors are, > so if someone familiar with wt and st would raise their hand I would > be grateful. :-) One concern I have is regarding tape length. It > looks like dump wants to calculate the tape length in advance to avoid > reaching end of media. QIC-40/80 tape drives have a variable number > of blocks, depending upon how many have been marked bad, so how would > I get a decent length? Is it a problem for dump to just fall off the > end of the tape? Dump will abort and offer you to re-do the current volume if it falls off the end of the medium. I found that even QIC cartridges sometimes do suffer from being ``a bit'' too short. I always do something like dump 0uBf 150000 /dev/rst0 usr for a QIC-150 tape, even though they actually should have more than 150000 KB (it should be 150 * 1024 KB). Perhaps this is the same forgery like the hard disk megabyte agenda, however. To make it short: telling dump to write some megabytes less than the tape might actually be does not harm, the waste is usually acceptable compared to the time needed to write the dump. I think even QIC-525 and QIC-1000 cartridges will vary in their actual capacity depending on the used block length, btw. It would be nice if the tape drivers could pass the `early EOF warning' to the controlling process, e.g. by a signal. I'm afraid this would make it incompatible to the rest of the world, however. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:42:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA27013 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:42:04 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27006; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:42:03 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA04565; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:41:56 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503220841.AAA04565@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Why IDE is bad To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:41:56 -0800 (PST) Cc: faq@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1272 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for FreeBSD: Western Digital 540 Caviar EIDE disk on IDE controller: ------------------------------------------------------- dd if=/dev/rwd0d of=/dev/null bs=64k count=8253 8253+0 records in 8253+0 records out 540868608 bytes transferred in 240 secs (2253619 bytes/sec) Here is what "systat" tells me: 2.0%Sys 82.0%Intr 0.5%User 0.0%Nice 15.6%Idle | | | | | | | | | | =+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Quantum Empire 2100 SCSI-II disk on VL-buslogic controller: ------------------------------------------------------------- dd if=/dev/rsd0d of=/dev/null bs=64k count=8253 8253+0 records in 8253+0 records out 540868608 bytes transferred in 110 secs (4916987 bytes/sec) Here is what "systat" tells me: 5.6%Sys 20.6%Intr 0.2%User 0.0%Nice 73.6%Idle | | | | | | | | | | ===++++++++++ CONCLUSION: ----------- The SCSI-controller transfers twice as much data in the same time, and uses only 25% of the CPU resources the IDE-controller needs. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:50:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA27144 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:50:27 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27137; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:50:24 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA09701; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:45:56 GMT Message-Id: <199503220045.AAA09701@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:41:56 PST." <199503220841.AAA04565@ref.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:45:54 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for > FreeBSD: > > Western Digital 540 Caviar EIDE disk on IDE controller: > ------------------------------------------------------- > Quantum Empire 2100 SCSI-II disk on VL-buslogic controller Do the above drives have similar performance characteristics? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 00:58:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA27283 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:58:50 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27276; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:58:48 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA04645; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:58:40 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503220858.AAA04645@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:58:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220045.AAA09701@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 22, 95 00:45:54 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 822 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for > > FreeBSD: > > > > Western Digital 540 Caviar EIDE disk on IDE controller: > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Quantum Empire 2100 SCSI-II disk on VL-buslogic controller > > Do the above drives have similar performance characteristics? That is entirely insignificant. The interesting thing is that while your IDE drive transfers data, your CPU is busy. When your SCSI ctrl (for decent controllers at least) transfers data, your CPU can do other things. And we're talking a factor 8 here (twice as much data * one fourth the load). -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 01:10:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27729 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:10:12 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27717; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:10:08 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA10094; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:05:40 GMT Message-Id: <199503220105.BAA10094@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 00:58:39 PST." <199503220858.AAA04645@ref.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:05:37 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for > > > FreeBSD: > > > > > > Western Digital 540 Caviar EIDE disk on IDE controller: > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > Quantum Empire 2100 SCSI-II disk on VL-buslogic controller > > > > Do the above drives have similar performance characteristics? > > That is entirely insignificant. The interesting thing is that Perhaps this is so ... However, if the IDE drive is fast your data transfer rate could be faster. As for the CPU load, Western Digital drives support DMA. Now don't ask me if it works or not or which other IDE drives support DMA. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 01:12:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27808 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:12:32 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27802; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:12:29 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA04694; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:12:21 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503220912.BAA04694@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:12:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220105.BAA10094@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 22, 95 01:05:37 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1111 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for > > > > FreeBSD: > > > > > > > > Western Digital 540 Caviar EIDE disk on IDE controller: > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Quantum Empire 2100 SCSI-II disk on VL-buslogic controller > > > > > > Do the above drives have similar performance characteristics? > > > > That is entirely insignificant. The interesting thing is that > Perhaps this is so ... > However, if the IDE drive is fast your data transfer rate could be > faster. As for the CPU load, Western Digital drives support DMA. Now don't ask > me if it works or not or which other IDE drives support DMA. I don't think you will find many ide's faster than the WDC, I know it can run faster on a better IDE-controller, but this is a fairly standard IDE controller so it's a good indication. And yes, but FreeBSD doesn't support DMA in IDE (yet ?)... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 01:19:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27985 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:19:35 -0800 Received: from unibel.by (unibel.by [193.232.92.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA27962 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:19:18 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:12 EET From: ole@unibel.by (A. Olevanov) To: ole@unibel.by, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: Question about "ruserpass" routine Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As "ruserpass" routine cannot be found in FreeBSD libraries, I extracted the sources of libcompat. This call appears first in 4.3 BSD libcompat. As it is undefined in library, actual code is somewhere in other 4.3 BSD libs. I do not know what library has it and what site running 4.3 BSD is accessible in Internet. Please, help me with it. With best wishes and regards, Alexander, Olevanov From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 01:30:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA28228 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:30:50 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA28218 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:30:46 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA08346; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:30:21 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503220930.BAA08346@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Question about "ruserpass" routine To: ole@unibel.by (A. Olevanov) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:30:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: ole@unibel.by, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "A. Olevanov" at Mar 22, 95 11:12:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 865 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As "ruserpass" routine cannot be found in FreeBSD libraries, I > extracted the sources of libcompat. This call appears first in > 4.3 BSD libcompat. As it is undefined in library, actual code is > somewhere in other 4.3 BSD libs. > > I do not know what library has it and what site running 4.3 BSD > is accessible in Internet. > > Please, help me with it. Humm.. your right.. we don't have one, and I am not sure where to find one. (Here is a possible source files that trigger on a locate command: /usr/src/usr.bin/ftp/ruserpass.c ) You are probably using the deprecated rexec call, I am not sure what the new code to replace it is, and the man page refers me to non-existant man pages. (krcmd). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 02:07:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA29405 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:07:24 -0800 Received: from unibel.by (unibel.by [193.232.92.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA29399 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:07:20 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 12:00 EET From: root@unibel.by (System Administator) To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: FreeBSD 2.1.0 cannot start on i486 with DC-680T controller Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While kernel load the system crashes with panic message: panic: integer divide fault. The system cannot determine the controller type and hard drive characteristics. The controller is VL-Bus/IDE, DC-680T. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 02:11:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA29467 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:11:43 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA29458; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:11:13 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA09696; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:05:58 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:05:58 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221005.UAA09696@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: faq@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for >FreeBSD: Not a fair test. >Western Digital 540 Caviar EIDE disk on IDE controller: >------------------------------------------------------- >dd if=/dev/rwd0d of=/dev/null bs=64k count=8253 > 8253+0 records in > 8253+0 records out > 540868608 bytes transferred in 240 secs (2253619 bytes/sec) >Here is what "systat" tells me: > 2.0%Sys 82.0%Intr 0.5%User 0.0%Nice 15.6%Idle > | | | | | | | | | | > =+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When the driver fully supports EIDE, it will use a faster PIO mode at least for reasonable drives/controllers/buses (not non-VLB ISA). This should reduce the largest component of the overhead (transferring data) by a factor of (new PIO speed)/(old PIO speed), typically 11.3/3.3. >Quantum Empire 2100 SCSI-II disk on VL-buslogic controller: >------------------------------------------------------------- >dd if=/dev/rsd0d of=/dev/null bs=64k count=8253 > 8253+0 records in > 8253+0 records out > 540868608 bytes transferred in 110 secs (4916987 bytes/sec) >Here is what "systat" tells me: > 5.6%Sys 20.6%Intr 0.2%User 0.0%Nice 73.6%Idle > | | | | | | | | | | > ===++++++++++ This doesn't show DMA time (except where it increases the Sys and Intr time). The VLB-Buslogic DMA transfer time should be smaller than the IDE transfer time, however. Buslogic claims 40MB/sec bursts while EIDE currently doesn't go above 16.6MB/sec. Your SCSI Intr time seems to be too high. I see only 2.2%Sys 1.4%Intr 0.3%User 0.0%Nice 96.1%Idle for a 486DX2/66 VLB-Buslogic Toshiba-MK537FB transferring at 2.6MB/sec and about twice as much Sys and Intr time for an Quantum-XP34301 transferring at 5.6MB/sec. To find the actual overhead, run a hog process, or better your normal application mix in the background and see how much slower they run. Counting to 100000000 takes 7.61 seconds here while the system is otherwise idle and 10.61 seconds while the Quantum is transferring, so the actual overhead is abount 28%. >CONCLUSION: >----------- >The SCSI-controller transfers twice as much data in the same time, and >uses only 25% of the CPU resources the IDE-controller needs. The better transfer rate is probably because the drive is better. When the driver can transfer at 11.3MB/sec it will be possible to match the SCSI transfer rate at a cost of about 60% overhead - twice as high as for the VLB-Buslogic Quantum-XP34301 combination. In practice, the FreeBSD-current 486DX2/66 VLB-Buslogic Quantum-XP34301 combination spends about 0.01% of its time transferring at >5MB/sec. It goes fast for iozone but very slowly for real files. E.g., `cp -pR /usr/src/sys /usr/src/sys~' takes 85 seconds to copy 2 * 12475K (293K/sec). Any IDE drive can compete with this transfer rate. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 02:26:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA29747 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:26:33 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA29739; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:26:14 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA09977; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:19:58 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:19:58 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221019.UAA09977@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hasty@star-gate.com, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: faq@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I don't think you will find many ide's faster than the WDC, I know >it can run faster on a better IDE-controller, but this is a fairly >standard IDE controller so it's a good indication. >And yes, but FreeBSD doesn't support DMA in IDE (yet ?)... The WDC specs that I've seen show DMA speeds slightly slower than IDE speeds so DMA may not be worth using. I forgot to think about the possibility of overlapping DMA cycles with cpu cycles in my previous mail about this. I reported a 28% slowdown for counting to 100000000. The cpu mostly executes 2 instructions in a loop. There should be few bus accesses to slow the cpu down. Maybe busmastering is broken. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 02:42:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA00951 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:42:13 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA00929; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:42:08 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA08681; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:40:17 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503221040.CAA08681@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:40:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: hasty@star-gate.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, faq@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221019.UAA09977@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 22, 95 08:19:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1255 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >I don't think you will find many ide's faster than the WDC, I know > >it can run faster on a better IDE-controller, but this is a fairly > >standard IDE controller so it's a good indication. > >And yes, but FreeBSD doesn't support DMA in IDE (yet ?)... > > The WDC specs that I've seen show DMA speeds slightly slower than > IDE speeds so DMA may not be worth using. > > I forgot to think about the possibility of overlapping DMA cycles > with cpu cycles in my previous mail about this. I reported a 28% > slowdown for counting to 100000000. The cpu mostly executes 2 > instructions in a loop. There should be few bus accesses to slow > the cpu down. Maybe busmastering is broken. It may also be caused by the fact that your CPU has to run SNOOP cycles during the bus master DMA. I do not know if the 486 can run a SNOOP cycle at the same time it does a regular cache access, somehow I really doubt it. I do know that the Pentium can run SNOOPS and access both the instruction and the data caches all in the same cycle. Thats one heck of a lot of data moving all at once!!! > Bruce -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 02:42:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA01036 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:42:36 -0800 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA00994; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:42:25 -0800 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA13014; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:41:58 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:41:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199503221041.CAA13014@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <22765.795853220@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Well, this is for sysinstall. If it's possible to bring those dialogs * up in Japanese, we should do so! I've asked Barry to restart the little * XPG3 message catalog project he had going.. I'm not sure if they're * sufficient for non-european languages, but it's a start. The Japanese * version can always be done seperately. Oh, sysinstall? That'd be nice, I'll let you know if I find anything. But do we still have enough room on the floppies for the driver and the font? The fonts are huge, like k14.pcf.Z (the smallest possible font) is 264KB.... Satoshi P.S. Well of course we can make it smaller by dropping unused letters.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 02:53:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA01288 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:53:18 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA01280 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:53:15 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA08963; Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:52:48 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id LAA08924 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:58:46 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:58:46 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199503221058.LAA08924@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Regarding the difference in CPU utilization, could it be - I don't know the driver internals - that it's the bounce buffer technique that costs CPU while the SCSI controller uses bus master transfers all the time? Or were you comparing VLB EIDE vs. SCSI ? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Sun Mar 19 17:20:44 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 02:56:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA01431 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:56:21 -0800 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA01399 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 02:55:54 -0800 Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.18.7]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA03802 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:55:39 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.9) id LAA14943; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:55:33 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:55:33 +0100 Message-Id: <199503221055.LAA14943@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Graphical interface to config MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am looking for a graphical interface to config(8). Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 03:35:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02682 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:35:13 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02676 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:35:10 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA00351; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:29:17 GMT Message-Id: <199503220329.DAA00351@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:05:58 +1000." <199503221005.UAA09696@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:29:14 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In practice, the FreeBSD-current 486DX2/66 VLB-Buslogic Quantum-XP34301 >combination spends about 0.01% of its time transferring at >5MB/sec. >It goes fast for iozone but very slowly for real files. E.g., >`cp -pR /usr/src/sys /usr/src/sys~' takes 85 seconds to copy >2 * 12475K (293K/sec). Any IDE drive can compete with this transfer >rate. Now why during a normal transfer is scsi so slow? Is it because of the updates to the inodes? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 03:35:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02697 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:35:43 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02686 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:35:27 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA11806; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:32:15 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:32:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221132.VAA11806@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Regarding the difference in CPU utilization, could it be - I don't >know the driver internals - that it's the bounce buffer technique >that costs CPU while the SCSI controller uses bus master transfers all >the time? Or were you comparing VLB EIDE vs. SCSI ? This might explain why my Intr time is so much lower than Poul's. I have only 16MB, and don't use option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. The bcopy() for bouncing is done in a call from biodone(). biodone() is called from the interrupt handler, at least for the wd driver. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 03:40:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02757 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:40:09 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02751 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:40:06 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA02659; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:39:32 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA00719; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:39:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199503221139.DAA00719@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 21:32:15 +1000." <199503221132.VAA11806@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:39:29 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>Regarding the difference in CPU utilization, could it be - I don't >>know the driver internals - that it's the bounce buffer technique >>that costs CPU while the SCSI controller uses bus master transfers all >>the time? Or were you comparing VLB EIDE vs. SCSI ? > >This might explain why my Intr time is so much lower than Poul's. >I have only 16MB, and don't use option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. The bcopy() >for bouncing is done in a call from biodone(). biodone() is called >from the interrupt handler, at least for the wd driver. Bounce buffers are not used on wd-style drives. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 03:54:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02888 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:54:36 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02880 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:54:13 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA12384; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:49:25 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:49:25 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221149.VAA12384@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>This might explain why my Intr time is so much lower than Poul's. >>I have only 16MB, and don't use option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. The bcopy() >>for bouncing is done in a call from biodone(). biodone() is called >>from the interrupt handler, at least for the wd driver. > Bounce buffers are not used on wd-style drives. I just looked at wd.c because there's no direct call to biodone() in bt742a.c. I think it gets called from the upper layers for scsi drivers. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 03:58:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02939 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:58:53 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02933 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:58:37 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA02688; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:57:44 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA02482; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:57:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199503221157.DAA02482@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 21:49:25 +1000." <199503221149.VAA12384@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 03:57:42 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>This might explain why my Intr time is so much lower than Poul's. >>>I have only 16MB, and don't use option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. The bcopy() >>>for bouncing is done in a call from biodone(). biodone() is called >>>from the interrupt handler, at least for the wd driver. > >> Bounce buffers are not used on wd-style drives. > >I just looked at wd.c because there's no direct call to biodone() in >bt742a.c. I think it gets called from the upper layers for scsi >drivers. It's called from sd.c and other places. Only B_BOUNCE buffers are freed in biodone. B_BOUNCE buffers are only created in vm_bounce_alloc(), and that is only called for bus mastering controllers that can't DMA above 16MB. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 04:09:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA03313 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:09:17 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA03283 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:08:50 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA12708; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:04:50 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:04:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221204.WAA12708@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, hasty@star-gate.com Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>`cp -pR /usr/src/sys /usr/src/sys~' takes 85 seconds to copy >>2 * 12475K (293K/sec). Any IDE drive can compete with this transfer >>rate. >Now why during a normal transfer is scsi so slow? >Is it because of the updates to the inodes? I think it's partly for synchronous updates and partly for small i/o's. The bt445c-xp34301 runs at about half its maximum speed for 8K blocks, 1/4 of its maximum speed for 4K blocks, down to 1/20 of its maximum speed (about 293K/sec :-) for 512-byte blocks. This is for sequential input. Reading the same 512-byte block over and over is no faster. The AdaptecVLB with a P2100 (?) is reported to be about the same speed. The U34F is almost twice as slow. IDE is faster for small i/o's. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 04:18:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA03649 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:18:13 -0800 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (root@ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA03643; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 04:18:09 -0800 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA19861 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:17:45 +0100 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA08636; Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:17:17 +0100 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9503221217.AA08636@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:17:17 MET Cc: hasty@star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220912.BAA04694@ref.tfs.com>; from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 22, 95 1:12 am X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't think you will find many ide's faster than the WDC, I know > it can run faster on a better IDE-controller, but this is a fairly > standard IDE controller so it's a good indication. > And yes, but FreeBSD doesn't support DMA in IDE (yet ?)... Was that my que word ?? DMA does not pay on E-IDE devices, it's not busmaster DMA, it is the motherboards DMA we are talking about here. This is very slow on standard MB's, but faster on PCI (if they implemented it right). However a "generic" driver would have to fall back to the std. PC DMA and that is slower than using polled mode. And besides only few drives support it anyway, and the high rates of the PIO modes looks better in advertizing. And that is the main thing on E-IDE, the drives are designed with enough onboard cache, that coretest etc. reports transfer rates close to the interface speed (13MB sec or so), but the drive cannot hold this speed when it has to read from the media. And here is the catch, in that most el cheapo IDE drives has inferior drive mechanics (hey they are cheap), and then some fancy cache/interface electronics to make up for outdated hardware.... > I personally think that E_IDE and friends are the cleverest sales trick in todays PC hardware. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 05:13:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA04683 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:13:39 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA04676; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:13:19 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA14540; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:05:50 +1000 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:05:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221305.XAA14540@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: phk@ref.tfs.com, sos@login.dknet.dk Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: faq@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >And that is the main thing on E-IDE, the drives are designed >with enough onboard cache, that coretest etc. reports transfer >rates close to the interface speed (13MB sec or so), but the >drive cannot hold this speed when it has to read from the media. This is also good for reducing interrupt overhead. >And here is the catch, in that most el cheapo IDE drives has >inferior drive mechanics (hey they are cheap), and then some >fancy cache/interface electronics to make up for outdated >hardware.... I expect better IDE drives would have been avaiable if the interface had supported them. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 05:39:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA05230 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:39:24 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA05213; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:39:12 -0800 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA20372; Wed, 22 Mar 95 05:33:15 -0800 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0rrQUr-0005OqC; Wed, 22 Mar 95 14:30 MEZ Message-Id: To: jmacd%freefall.cdrom.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Cc: ports%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, chuckr%Glue.umd.edu@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from Joshua Peck Macdonald of Wed, 22 Mar 95 02:05:42 PST. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:30:49 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > whether this is a tgdb bug or a freebsd-port bug I am not sure according to the INSTALL file which comes with tgdb this is a bug in BLT-1.7 (I assume you're using this version of BLT). The author recommends using BLT-1.3 for this reason. Unfortunately, BLT-1.3 doesn't seem to exist on any archive machines any longer :( As Chuck Robey wrote: > Amancio: BLT-1.7 does indeed cause the help screen to die. I can't find > a location on BLT-1.3 with archie...d'you happen to know of one? I think I still have BLT-1.3 at home from when I generated tgdb_wish. I'll look around and stick in incoming on ftp.cdrom.com tomorrow, if I find it. BTW I'm in Germany, so tomorrow for me means the middle of the night in the USA. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 05:42:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA05294 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:42:14 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA05277 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 05:42:02 -0800 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA20446; Wed, 22 Mar 95 05:35:02 -0800 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0rrQWt-0005OqC; Wed, 22 Mar 95 14:32 MEZ Message-Id: To: bakul%netcom.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from Bakul Shah of Tue, 21 Mar 95 23:49:56 PST. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:32:54 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The one that mucks with gdb, perl etc. is ups-3.6 or 3.7; > the one I have running on the Sun is ups-2.45.2 -- it does > not use gdb. I will try make it run on *BSD so that y'all > can see what it's like. already ported, look at ftp.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ups-port.tgz Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 06:04:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA05532 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:04:29 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA05523 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:04:18 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA19529 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:40:35 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA13331; 22 Mar 95 07:39:51 CST (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA13328; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:39:50 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503221339.HAA13328@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:39:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220015.AAA06755@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Mar 22, 95 00:15:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 634 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One concern I have is regarding tape length. It > looks like dump wants to calculate the tape length in advance to avoid > reaching end of media. QIC-40/80 tape drives have a variable number > of blocks, depending upon how many have been marked bad, so how would > I get a decent length? You have to estimate. Streaming tape drives have variable size, too, depending on how much they stream. This is pretty much a standard problem in tape drives in general, apart from the old 9-tracks where you had good random access. > Is it a problem for dump to just fall off the > end of the tape? NO more than on any other tape device. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 06:05:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA05546 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:05:01 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA05537 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:04:57 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA19679 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:58:55 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA13634; 22 Mar 95 07:57:56 CST (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA13631; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:57:55 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503221357.HAA13631@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: sio overruns To: mdavis@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:57:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220651.WAA01570@io.cts.com> from "Morgan Davis" at Mar 21, 95 10:51:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 549 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > FYI: I've got a device connected to a serial port (a BBS) that > requires DCD up all the time. However, every now and then a caller > connects to the port via cu and drops carrier. [...] You're using the same patch to "cu" that I am? I don't have this problem: I haven't seen any immortal "cu" processes, and since I've got the one modem for the BBS (actually, an old System V UNIX box I use as a 'Jail') and for my uucp connections I'd notice if the port was getting locked up. What device do you have the getty on in /etc/ttys for the modem? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 06:22:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA05750 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:22:23 -0800 Received: from Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA05744 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:22:21 -0800 Received: (from digdon@localhost) by Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA17401 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:21:06 -0400 From: Mike Digdon Message-Id: <199503221421.KAA17401@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Subject: IDE CD-ROM & SCSI Controller To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:21:06 -0400 (AST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 537 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a Mitsumi FX400 IDE CD-ROM. At the moment, FreeBSD does not support this device. My roommate tells me that there is a SCSI card that you can plug IDE devices into and have them work like SCSI devices, limited only to IDE transfer rates. My question is, if I should buy one, would I then be able to use my CD-ROM with FreeBSD? If not, is support for a slaved IDE CD-ROM on the way? -- Mike Digdon # Network Operation Centre # Dalhousie University Phone: +1 902 494-1873 # E-mail: digdon@snoopy.ucis.dal.ca From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 06:31:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA05917 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:31:28 -0800 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (root@ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA05908; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 06:31:14 -0800 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA03245 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:27:53 +0100 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA12175; Wed, 22 Mar 95 15:24:28 +0100 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9503221424.AA12175@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 15:24:27 MET Cc: phk@ref.tfs.com, faq@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199503221305.XAA14540@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 22, 95 11:05 pm X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >And that is the main thing on E-IDE, the drives are designed > >with enough onboard cache, that coretest etc. reports transfer > >rates close to the interface speed (13MB sec or so), but the > >drive cannot hold this speed when it has to read from the media. > > This is also good for reducing interrupt overhead. Hmm, most of the drives would intterupt once each sector anyway even when doing DMA, so there is really nothing gained... > >And here is the catch, in that most el cheapo IDE drives has > >inferior drive mechanics (hey they are cheap), and then some > >fancy cache/interface electronics to make up for outdated > >hardware.... > > I expect better IDE drives would have been avaiable if the > interface had supported them. Actually I think not, the IDE thing is about making CHEAP disks for the average PC user. It is much better advertising to have a 500MB drive than a 300MB drive, who cares about performance ??? So we will get bigger/cheaper IDE drives, sure, but "better" nah, that doesn't sell hardware to Joe Random User.... We in the *nix world are very atypical PC users, who CARES about performance, but we will also have to pay the price for it. As a vice man once said "there is no such thing as a free lunch"... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 07:54:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA07609 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:54:09 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA07598; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:53:57 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA17998; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:13:13 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:13:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221513.BAA17998@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, sos@login.dknet.dk Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: faq@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com, phk@ref.tfs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >And that is the main thing on E-IDE, the drives are designed >> >with enough onboard cache, that coretest etc. reports transfer >> >rates close to the interface speed (13MB sec or so), but the >> >drive cannot hold this speed when it has to read from the media. >> >> This is also good for reducing interrupt overhead. >Hmm, most of the drives would intterupt once each sector anyway >even when doing DMA, so there is really nothing gained... Interrupts don't take long (< 10 usec on a DX2/66) if the driver doesn't do anything. The IDE driver does a lot. It takes at least 155 usec to transfer 512 bytes at 3.3MB/sec. Dividing `a lot' by (11.3/3.3) has good effects. >> I expect better IDE drives would have been avaiable if the >> interface had supported them. >Actually I think not, the IDE thing is about making CHEAP disks >for the average PC user. It is much better advertising to have a >500MB drive than a 300MB drive, who cares about performance ??? "Only" half the posters in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.*. Even the average user needs ever increasing performance to run the latest bloatware. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 07:54:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA07624 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:54:41 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA07618; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:54:38 -0800 Received: from tartufo.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA06006; Wed, 22 Mar 95 07:14:47 -0800 Received: by tartufo.pcs.dec.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.39) id ; Wed, 22 Mar 95 16:13 MET Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 16:13 MET From: me@tartufo.pcs.dec.com (Michael Elbel) To: jkh@FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Yes, I'm sick and depraved. Newsgroups: pcs.freebsd.hackers References: <199503220216.SAA03697@time.cdrom.com> Reply-To: me@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In pcs.freebsd.hackers you write: >Would anyone object TOO loudly if I hacked echo to understand \c (or \c$ if >you're being picky) as a synonym for -n? >This would help some of the SCO scripts we'll be dragging over with ibcs2 >compat to look a lot nicer, and I can see any real downside.. Yes, do so, please. Then let's turn on bash's -e switch to echo by default and I'll be happy (I always forget to give it that damn switch ;-) Michael -- Michael Elbel, Digital-PCS GmbH, Muenchen, Germany - me@FreeBSD.org Fermentation fault (coors dumped) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 07:56:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA07684 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:56:38 -0800 Received: from teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU (teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU [138.67.1.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA07678 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:56:36 -0800 Received: by teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA30302; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:29:42 -0700 From: mbarkah@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Ade Barkah) Message-Id: <9503221529.AA30302@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU> Subject: getblk: invalid buffer size To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:29:42 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 669 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I got the following messages on the console: getblk: invalid buffer size: 65536 getblk: invalid buffer size: 31232 getblk: invalid buffer size: 65536 . . . getblk: invalid buffer size: 65536 The OS is FreeBSD 2.0-R, p90 (intel plato), 32mb ram, 64mb swap. Any particular thing I should be looking for ? The system is still up with no further apparent problems. The only `unusual' activity in the previous hour was a big copy operation overflowed an MSDOS partition (and the OS gave `file not found' messages for each file left to be copied, instead of a filesystem full messages.) I know, I should get rid of the msdos stuff completely. Thanks, -Ade Barkah From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 08:06:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA07936 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:06:16 -0800 Received: from allmalt.cs.uwm.edu (allmalt.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.35.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA07930 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:06:15 -0800 Received: (from james@localhost) by allmalt.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA06299 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:06:08 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:06:08 -0600 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199503221606.KAA06299@allmalt.cs.uwm.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Sound card configurations + questions Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I currently have a PAS-16 card configured in my kernel. To properly configure the card I need the following stuff in my configuration file: --- options ALLOW_CONFLICT_IOADDR # For pas0 & opl0 #options "PAS_SYMPHONY" # Only use if symphony chip set probs options BROKEN_BUS_CLOCK # Only use if OPTI chip set probs options EXCLUDE_SBPRO # PAS has old SB emulation options "SBC_IRQ=5" # SBC_IRQ must match irq on sb0 line # sound stuff... Order is important here, the pas device must be configured # before the sb device, since the sb emulation gets set in the pas attach. controller snd0 device pas0 at isa? port 0x388 irq 12 drq 3 vector pasintr device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 --- Using this configuration, I am able to read and write to /dev/{dsp,audio}, and write /dev/{dsp,audio}1, and use the pas-16 card as a full duplex audio card. Other than the standard flakiness of the pas card this configuration works well. I also have a GUS-16 card (rev 3.7) and a couple of GUSMAX cards. I am not certain what the correct configuration of these cards are. The GUSMAX card seems to have a SB dma, and two gus dma channels (one for read and one for write) as well as two interrupts (one for sb and one for gus). Looking at the possible configurations I don't see how to take advantage of this. I have tried this configuration. --- device gus0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 12 drq 7 vector gusintr device gusxvi0 at isa? port 0x530 irq 12 drq 7 vector adintr device gusmax0 at isa? port 0x32c device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 --- The kernel comes back with: gus0: at 0x220 irq 12 drq 7 on isa gus0: gusxvi0: not probed due to conflict with gus0 at 7 gusmax0 not found at 0x32c sb0 not found at 0x220 opl0 at 0x388 on isa opl0: When I try and read/write /dev/{dsp,audio} I get an error; however, /dev/{dsp,audio}1 seem to work (somewhat). Questions: Has the old full duplex code been brought forward into the new sound drivers for the gus card? If not, is someone already doing this or should I take a hack at it? What is the correct configuration for a gus-16 card? What is the correct configuration for a gus-max card? Anyone know why the sb emulation doesn't work with the gus cards? Thanks for any help, -Jim From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 08:13:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA08112 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:13:14 -0800 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (root@ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA08106 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:13:03 -0800 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA13997 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:12:51 +0100 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA16080; Wed, 22 Mar 95 17:10:12 +0100 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9503221610.AA16080@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: IDE CD-ROM & SCSI Controller To: digdon@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (Mike Digdon) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 17:10:11 MET Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221421.KAA17401@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca>; from "Mike Digdon" at Mar 22, 95 10:21 am X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have a Mitsumi FX400 IDE CD-ROM. At the moment, FreeBSD does not support > this device. My roommate tells me that there is a SCSI card that you can > plug IDE devices into and have them work like SCSI devices, limited only to > IDE transfer rates. Sounds handy, but I doubt it is cost effective.... > My question is, if I should buy one, would I then be able to use my CD-ROM > with FreeBSD? If not, is support for a slaved IDE CD-ROM on the way? Yes support is underway.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 08:25:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA08361 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:25:12 -0800 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (root@ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA08330; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:24:36 -0800 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA15268 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:22:54 +0100 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA16615; Wed, 22 Mar 95 17:21:19 +0100 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9503221621.AA16615@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 17:21:18 MET Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, faq@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com, phk@ref.tfs.com In-Reply-To: <199503221513.BAA17998@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 23, 95 1:13 am X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> >And that is the main thing on E-IDE, the drives are designed > >> >with enough onboard cache, that coretest etc. reports transfer > >> >rates close to the interface speed (13MB sec or so), but the > >> >drive cannot hold this speed when it has to read from the media. > >> > >> This is also good for reducing interrupt overhead. > > >Hmm, most of the drives would intterupt once each sector anyway > >even when doing DMA, so there is really nothing gained... > > Interrupts don't take long (< 10 usec on a DX2/66) if the driver > doesn't do anything. The IDE driver does a lot. It takes at least > 155 usec to transfer 512 bytes at 3.3MB/sec. Dividing `a lot' by > (11.3/3.3) has good effects. Hmm, yes but most motherboards can only run code off the cache when the onboard DMA is running, limiting the usefullness of this approach "somewhat". Besides the DOS dudes allready found out and you will have VERY big trouble even finding a DOS DMA driver.... > >> I expect better IDE drives would have been avaiable if the > >> interface had supported them. > > >Actually I think not, the IDE thing is about making CHEAP disks > >for the average PC user. It is much better advertising to have a > >500MB drive than a 300MB drive, who cares about performance ??? > > "Only" half the posters in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.*. Even the > average user needs ever increasing performance to run the latest > bloatware. Well the average user doesn't have net access (hell most doesn't even know what it is), so this is a somewhat vague argument.... BUT what they understand is when the sales droid shoves in a bigger disk for (allmost) the same price, not wondering how this can be done without loosing something else (performance)... The "advanced" user then tries coretest, and the "amasing" EIDE disk shows these wonderfull high transferrates (thanks to a carefully sized disk-intern cache), oh waw ! In the old days these guys sold (used) horses.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 08:47:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA08838 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:47:37 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA08831; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:47:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 02:41:58 PST." <199503221041.CAA13014@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:47:35 -0800 Message-ID: <8830.795890855@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The all-singing all-dancing multilingual installation might not actually appear anywhere but the CDROM (if it can find the font info, it presents the appropriate localization screen(s)). Jordan > * Well, this is for sysinstall. If it's possible to bring those dialogs > * up in Japanese, we should do so! I've asked Barry to restart the little > * XPG3 message catalog project he had going.. I'm not sure if they're > * sufficient for non-european languages, but it's a start. The Japanese > * version can always be done seperately. > > Oh, sysinstall? That'd be nice, I'll let you know if I find anything. > But do we still have enough room on the floppies for the driver and > the font? The fonts are huge, like k14.pcf.Z (the smallest possible > font) is 264KB.... > > Satoshi > > P.S. Well of course we can make it smaller by dropping unused letters.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 08:48:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA08892 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:48:52 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA08886 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:48:45 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA19869; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:44:37 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:44:37 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221644.CAA19869@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, mbarkah@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: getblk: invalid buffer size Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I got the following messages on the console: >getblk: invalid buffer size: 65536 >getblk: invalid buffer size: 31232 >getblk: invalid buffer size: 65536 > . > . > . >getblk: invalid buffer size: 65536 >The OS is FreeBSD 2.0-R, p90 (intel plato), 32mb ram, 64mb swap. This is fixed in FreeBSD-current. I think it was caused by a bug in msdosfs. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 08:59:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09114 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:59:48 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09094; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 08:59:38 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA20070; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:55:07 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:55:07 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221655.CAA20070@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, sos@login.dknet.dk Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: faq@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com, phk@ref.tfs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> >And that is the main thing on E-IDE, the drives are designed >> >> >with enough onboard cache, that coretest etc. reports transfer >> >> >rates close to the interface speed (13MB sec or so), but the >> >> >drive cannot hold this speed when it has to read from the media. >> >> >> >> This is also good for reducing interrupt overhead. >> >> >Hmm, most of the drives would intterupt once each sector anyway >> >even when doing DMA, so there is really nothing gained... >> >> Interrupts don't take long (< 10 usec on a DX2/66) if the driver >> doesn't do anything. The IDE driver does a lot. It takes at least >> 155 usec to transfer 512 bytes at 3.3MB/sec. Dividing `a lot' by >> (11.3/3.3) has good effects. >Hmm, yes but most motherboards can only run code off the cache >when the onboard DMA is running, limiting the usefullness of >this approach "somewhat". Besides the DOS dudes allready found out >and you will have VERY big trouble even finding a DOS DMA driver.... I meant (in the >> >> quote) that fast PIO is good for reducing total overhead. Most of the overhead happens to show up as `Intr' overhead because the insw/outsw is done in the interrupt handler. Reducing this from 155 usec to 39 usec is much more useful than reducing the interrupt entry overhead from 10 usec to 0. All this ignores the effects of caches. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:08:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA09554 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:08:56 -0800 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA09548; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:08:53 -0800 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA16627; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:08:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:08:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199503221708.JAA16627@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <8830.795890855@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * The all-singing all-dancing multilingual installation might not actually * appear anywhere but the CDROM (if it can find the font info, it presents * the appropriate localization screen(s)). Oh, I see. I don't have a CDROM drive, but I can proofread the Japanese (or even translate!, so tell me if you need any help. :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:09:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA09607 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:09:41 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA09591; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:09:36 -0800 Received: from freefall.cdrom.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA02699; Wed, 22 Mar 95 09:01:43 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA09215; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:01:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: gj@FreeBSD.org Cc: jmacd%freefall.cdrom.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, ports%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, chuckr%Glue.umd.edu@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: tgdb In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:30:49 GMT." Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:01:50 -0800 Message-Id: <9214.795891710@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Of course, we could always just try to fix the bug in BLT-1.7! :-) Jordan > > whether this is a tgdb bug or a freebsd-port bug I am not sure > > according to the INSTALL file which comes with tgdb this is a bug in > BLT-1.7 (I assume you're using this version of BLT). The author recommends > using BLT-1.3 for this reason. > > Unfortunately, BLT-1.3 doesn't seem to exist on any archive machines any > longer :( > > As Chuck Robey wrote: > > > Amancio: BLT-1.7 does indeed cause the help screen to die. I can't find > > a location on BLT-1.3 with archie...d'you happen to know of one? > > I think I still have BLT-1.3 at home from when I generated tgdb_wish. I'll > look around and stick in incoming on ftp.cdrom.com tomorrow, if I find it. > BTW I'm in Germany, so tomorrow for me means the middle of the night in the > USA. > > Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:21:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10080 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:21:06 -0800 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10074 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:21:00 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA00759; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:29:56 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA13186 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 01:44:12 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA14045 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:43:53 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA01722; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:23:37 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199503212123.WAA01722@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: bob%obiwan@yedi.iaf.nl (Bob Willcox) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:23:36 +1596657 (MET) Cc: amurai@spec.co.jp, dufault@hda.com, pst@Shockwave.COM, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Bob Willcox" at Mar 19, 95 12:31:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1033 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Atsushi MURAI wrote: > > > > > > bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 > > > > bt0: targ 1 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 > > > > bt0: targ 4 async > > > > bt0: targ 6 async > > > > It's a common information for SCSI bus by each target and card. So I > > will recommend these information should be saved into common Leave out the 100ns stuff, it's redundant. Other than that, it looks OK to me. BTW what means 'offset' in this case? > I agree very strongly with Atsushi on this. I use these as visible evidence > that all the negotiations are going as I expected. Without them you're left > in the dark. Yep, good idea! > -- > Bob Willcox ...!{rutgers|ames}!cs.utexas.edu!uudell!obiwan!bob _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:30:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10280 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:30:37 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10274 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:30:36 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA05864; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:29:50 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503221729.JAA05864@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:29:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503221058.LAA08924@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Mar 22, 95 11:58:46 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 540 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Regarding the difference in CPU utilization, could it be - I don't > know the driver internals - that it's the bounce buffer technique > that costs CPU while the SCSI controller uses bus master transfers all > the time? Or were you comparing VLB EIDE vs. SCSI ? The difference is because the CPU does the transfer from IDE with a "REP INSW" instruction... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:32:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10317 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:32:48 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10311 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:32:47 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA05890; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:32:31 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503221732.JAA05890@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:32:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de In-Reply-To: <199503221132.VAA11806@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 22, 95 09:32:15 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 814 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Regarding the difference in CPU utilization, could it be - I don't > >know the driver internals - that it's the bounce buffer technique > >that costs CPU while the SCSI controller uses bus master transfers all > >the time? Or were you comparing VLB EIDE vs. SCSI ? > > This might explain why my Intr time is so much lower than Poul's. > I have only 16MB, and don't use option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. The bcopy() > for bouncing is done in a call from biodone(). biodone() is called > from the interrupt handler, at least for the wd driver. Excuse moi! Why would we need bounce-buffers for wd.c when the IO is done using "REP INSW" ?? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:41:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10457 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:41:48 -0800 Received: from ns.gte.com (ns.gte.com [132.197.8.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10451 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:41:47 -0800 Received: by ns.gte.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id MAA01736; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:39:21 -0500 Received: from bunny.gte.com(132.197.8.1) by cliff via smap (V1.3) id sma001728; Wed Mar 22 12:39:14 1995 Received: by bunny.gte.com (8.6.9/GTEL2.19) id MAA20160; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:40:55 -0500 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id MAA13127; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:37:57 GMT Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:37:57 GMT From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199503221237.MAA13127@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ANy one useing ft driver under 2.0 current??? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am trying to get a colorado 250 working. It probes and every thing > but ``tar czf - | ft "test1" runs for awhile and then finishes without ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ When you say a while, how long approximately and what was the size of the save? Also was this mistyped or is this actually the command you used? You didn't specify any files to back up with tar with what you've typed here. (tar czf - . | ft "test1" would work). > ft "test1" > test:rgrimes {131} ft "test1" > "ftfilt vol*01 0000000045 test1" - Wed Mar 22 06:51:56 1995 > test:rgrimes {132} > Sure enought that is when I wrote it, but where the hell is my DATA??? Only 45 bytes were written to the tape, so no data. To test to see if either the backup command was bad or the ft driver messed up, do an "ft | tar tvzf -". If tar doesn't complain about reaching premature EOF then the archive was empty. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:48:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10555 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:48:52 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10544 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:48:44 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA20994; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 03:45:43 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 03:45:43 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503221745.DAA20994@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> This might explain why my Intr time is so much lower than Poul's. >> I have only 16MB, and don't use option BOUNCE_BUFFERS. The bcopy() >> for bouncing is done in a call from biodone(). biodone() is called >> from the interrupt handler, at least for the wd driver. >Excuse moi! Why would we need bounce-buffers for wd.c when the IO >is done using "REP INSW" ?? We don't. We need to call biodone() for finishing i/o for all drivers, and I'm not 100% sure that it is called from the interrupt handler except for the wd driver. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 09:49:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10562 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:49:13 -0800 Received: from uhura (slip1.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at [140.78.5.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA10556 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:49:05 -0800 Received: (from cg@localhost) by uhura (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA00172 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:40:36 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:40:36 +0100 From: "DI. Christian Gusenbauer" Message-Id: <199503221740.SAA00172@uhura> Reply-To: cg@FIMP01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: NCR problems Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Since src-ctm.0436 I get "page fault while in kernel mode" somewhere in _ncr_int_ma (offset relative to the beginning of this function: 0x1c9) after the file system checks. Then I get the following error message: syncing disks ... ncr0 targ 1?: ERROR(80:100) (e-28-0) (8/13) @ (1008:3e035a4a) reg: da 10 80 13 47 8 1 1f 1 e 81 28 80 0 8 0 What's wrong? Christian. cg@fimp01.fim.uni-linz.ac.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 10:00:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10728 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:00:24 -0800 Received: from nietzsche (annex1s38.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.48]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA10722 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:00:19 -0800 Received: from nietzsche (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05048 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:53:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199503221753.SAA05048@nietzsche> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Strange behaviour of sh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:53:01 +0100 From: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, I need to call a program with the system call and have stdout and stderr redirected to a file, however when I issue the following command: cat foo0 >& foo1 sh responds with: Syntax error: bad fd number The above line is the correct syntax to redirect stdout and stderr to a file or isn't it? Any help welcome, Marc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 10:09:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10960 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:09:41 -0800 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA10953 for hackers; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:09:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:09:40 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199503221809.KAA10953@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: X11 protocol compressor. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I remember some time back, someone posted one of those user-mode X11 compression tools, and now that I'd really like to play with it I can't find it again! :-( I remember testing it out at the time and finding a reasonable performance boost for a cheap solution (masquerade as server, compress on the fly). Any pointers? Terry? Anything in your pack-rat's sack? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 10:17:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11198 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:17:09 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11192 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:17:08 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11113; Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:10:47 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503221810.AA11113@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Strange behaviour of sh To: wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:10:46 MST Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221753.SAA05048@nietzsche> from "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" at Mar 22, 95 06:53:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi All, > > I need to call a program with the system call and have stdout and > stderr redirected to a file, however when I issue the following > command: > > cat foo0 >& foo1 > > sh responds with: > > Syntax error: bad fd number > > The above line is the correct syntax to redirect stdout and stderr to > a file or isn't it? No, it is not. Use: cat foo0 > foo1 2>&1 Instead. the '>&' construct in sh is [#]>&#, where # is a file descriptor number to redirect to and [#] is an option fd to redirect (default is 1, stdout). This should be in the syntax section of the sh man page. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 10:26:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11354 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:26:35 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11346; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:26:33 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11140; Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:20:18 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503221820.AA11140@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:20:17 MST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503221809.KAA10953@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 22, 95 10:09:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I remember some time back, someone posted one of those user-mode X11 > compression tools, and now that I'd really like to play with it I can't > find it again! :-( > > I remember testing it out at the time and finding a reasonable performance > boost for a cheap solution (masquerade as server, compress on the fly). > > Any pointers? > > Terry? Anything in your pack-rat's sack? :-) Contrib on ftp.x.org. Or try NCD (Network Computing Devices). The LBX (Low Bandwidth X) was developed by Mike(?) @ NCD and given to the X people for inclusion. They wanted to modify it somewhat before the released it. I believe the NCD code is out there under the name XRemote. It's moderately useful for point-to-point links where the remote X server is the only addressable device on the other end. NCD originally implemented it for serial rhater than ethernet connection of their X terminals to host systems where existing ethernet was too expensive or just not there. Later, they expanded its role to use it on modem links, once modems caught up with higher serial speeds. Or, you could look at the "hackers" archive. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. ============================================================================== ] To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com ] Subject: Re: LBX distribution missing from XFree86-3.1? ] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Dec 1994 11:10:21 MST." ] <9412021810.AA01920@cs.weber.edu> ] Date: Fri, 02 Dec 1994 15:30:23 EST ] From: Kaleb Keithley ] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org ] Precedence: bulk ] Status: OR ] ] ] >> > I don't have the README handy, but LBX code is ``WorkInProgress'', and ] >> > the protocol is explicitly subject to future changes. Available LBX ] >> > proxys are only experimental. ] >> ] ] That is correct. ] ] >> Oh... ] >> ] >> I had understood that LBX was completed for X11R6. But, I reached ] >> that understanding through several "what's coming in X11R6" articles in ] >> the X-Journal, that may have been more crystal-ball oriented than they ] >> let on. ] ] The X Journal doesn't represent the X Consortium in any way, shape or ] form. LBX is work-in-progress because a) it's not finished, and b) it ] hasn't been accepted by the X Consortium as a standard yet. As soon as ] it's finished *and* accepted as a standard a public patch will be ] releases that moves it out of the workInProgress directory. ] ] >NCD donated their code; it was rumored that it was being improved (read ] >as "made incompatible to avoid yielding NCD a competitive advantage") and ] >would be in R6. Maybe they aren't done improving it yet? ] ] >You could probably get the code direct from NCD, given that they would ] >have a vested interest in getting an unmodified standard (one that would ] >work with their existing hard-coded server images) out there and used, ] >and they have already effectively released the code. ] ] LBX is not compatible with XRemote. Snapshots of LBX work-in-progress are ] only available to X Consortium members at this time. If this changes it ] will be announced on comp.windows.x.announce and the xannounce mailing ] list. ] ] Kaleb KEITHLEY ] X Consortium ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 10:36:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11481 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:36:51 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11469; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:36:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:20:17 MST." <9503221820.AA11140@cs.weber.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:36:49 -0800 Message-ID: <11468.795897409@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Contrib on ftp.x.org. Or try NCD (Network Computing Devices). The LBX > (Low Bandwidth X) was developed by Mike(?) @ NCD and given to the X > people for inclusion. They wanted to modify it somewhat before the > released it. I believe the NCD code is out there under the name XRemote. Uh, no. I know about LBX and it's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something that SPOOFS as a server and does very simplistic yet effective compression schemes on the datastream. It's much easier to use across different server and client environments (neither server nor client need ever know) and it's a lot less reading than the LBX documentation! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 10:37:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11514 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:37:49 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11505; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:37:45 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11164; Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:31:25 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503221831.AA11164@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:31:25 MST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503220419.UAA19060@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 08:19:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone managed to remap their screen enough to display enough > common kanji/kana glyphs to be useful? > > If so, it'd be nice to get it into the distribution for 2.1! > What are most of our japanese friends using? The first third party LKM was a console driver called "World 21". It was an ISO 2022 driver based on (I think) JIS 212 (might have been the older 208). This was released for NetBSD. I have a copy of it somewhere, but would have to really did to find it. I am sure it is on one of 20+ tapes. XPG/3 is insufficient for use for large glyph set languages (most notably the CJK languages -- Chinese, Japanese, Korean). You would have to go to XPG/4. I am not teriffically satisfied with the XPG soloutions to the problems of data-driven localization. The best thing that came out of that was string/argument order mapping for printf to allow sentence structure changes when priniting 2 or more strings/values. I have some internationalization work I have been experimenting with off an on, but it involves highly experimental (and now outdated) changes to the file system, the console driver, and many pieces of the system call interfaces. It is definitely not ready for prime time. It also has the little problem of needing 1280x1024 to get an 80x25 standard font cell screen. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 10:40:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11626 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:40:25 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA11615; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:40:22 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11179; Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:34:06 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503221834.AA11179@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:34:05 MST Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=), hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <22765.795853220@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 10:20:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > X + mule/kterm for me, as I don't use the console except for logging > > in, Japanese or no Japanese.... :) > > Well, this is for sysinstall. If it's possible to bring those dialogs > up in Japanese, we should do so! I've asked Barry to restart the little > XPG3 message catalog project he had going.. I'm not sure if they're > sufficient for non-european languages, but it's a start. The Japanese > version can always be done seperately. XPG/3 will primarily buy you FIGS and other ISO 8859-X support *only*; the "later" would involve going to XPG/4 or something more useful. You may wish to consider ISO 2022 based XPG/4 encoding, which will buy you the 21 top language markets. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 11:05:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA11919 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:05:25 -0800 Received: from netcom15.netcom.com (root@netcom15.netcom.com [192.100.81.128]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA11913; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:05:24 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom15.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id KAA27339; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:56:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199503221856.KAA27339@netcom15.netcom.com> To: gj@FreeBSD.org cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Debugging In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 13:32:54 GMT." Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 10:56:16 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The one that mucks with gdb, perl etc. is ups-3.6 or 3.7; > > the one I have running on the Sun is ups-2.45.2 -- it does > > not use gdb. I will try make it run on *BSD so that y'all > > can see what it's like. > > already ported, look at ftp.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/ups-port.tgz Thanks! I took a look at it. These patches are for ups-3.7 which requires gdb. I really want ups-2.45.2, its older and much smaller incarnation. However, the user interface of both versions is pretty similar so people who just want to checkout ups interface can build a binary from these patches. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 11:16:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA12164 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:16:13 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12158 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:16:08 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA09736; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:15:45 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503221915.LAA09736@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:15:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9503221217.AA08636@login.dknet.dk> from "S|ren Schmidt" at Mar 22, 95 01:17:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3801 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [cc: trimmed, moved to hackers list, reply-to set to hackers] > > > > > I don't think you will find many ide's faster than the WDC, I know > > it can run faster on a better IDE-controller, but this is a fairly > > standard IDE controller so it's a good indication. > > And yes, but FreeBSD doesn't support DMA in IDE (yet ?)... > > Was that my que word ?? > > DMA does not pay on E-IDE devices, it's not busmaster DMA, it > is the motherboards DMA we are talking about here. Yep. > This is very slow on standard MB's, but faster on PCI > (if they implemented it right). Yep. > However a "generic" driver would have to fall back to > the std. PC DMA and that is slower than using polled mode. Perhaps, but motherboard DMA does occur at upto 4MB/sec, and concurrent with the CPU doing other things. Since most drives can't sustain this transfer rate for long periods of time it would be more efficient. > And besides only few drives support it anyway, and the high > rates of the PIO modes looks better in advertizing. E-IDE DMA mode is not a function of the drive, it is a function of the controller chip. > And that is the main thing on E-IDE, the drives are designed > with enough onboard cache, that coretest etc. reports transfer > rates close to the interface speed (13MB sec or so), but the > drive cannot hold this speed when it has to read from the media. All too true, PC hardware is optimized to run the Benchmarks that you see in all the trade rags, not for real world applications. Being fast on the benchmarks does often help some, but it is no where near what you can get out of good hardware by spending the extra money to get what is not only fast on the dumb benchmarks, but is fast no matter what you thow at it. > And here is the catch, in that most el cheapo IDE drives has > inferior drive mechanics (hey they are cheap), and then some > fancy cache/interface electronics to make up for outdated > hardware.... I don't think this is totally true, many very good drives are avaliable in both SCSI and IDE, they use the exact same technology just different drive electronics. Same samples are the Micropollis 4410, the Quantum ProDrive, Lightning and Maverik series. I won't call Samsung a good drive, but they also have a line of drives that are avaliable in either SCSI or EIDE. > > > I personally think that E_IDE and friends are the cleverest > sales trick in todays PC hardware. BINGO!!! And the other problems with E-IDE or even IDE is that it is hard to get the real numbers you need to know if the drive is really fast or not. Drive adds always list the host bus burst interface rate, what you REALLY want to know is the ``Data Transfer Rate - To/From Media''. This number is almost always avaliable in the specs for SCSI drives, and only sometimes avaliable in the specs for ATA drives. I happen to have the numbers for the Samsung Transfer Rate drive ATA/SCSI Host(SCSI/ATA)/sec Media TO/FROM /sec SHD-30280A ATA only X/11MB 38.10Mbit SHD-30420A ATA only X/11MB 38.10Mbit SHD-30560A ATA only X/11MB 38.10MBit PLS-30540A ATA only X/11MB 46.22MBit PLS-30730A ATA only X/11MB 46.64MBit PLS-30850A/S ATA/SCSI 11MB/10MB 48.11MBIT PLS-31100A/S ATA/SCSI 11MB/10MB 47.27MBIT TRS-31080A/S ATA/SCSI 11MB/10MB 38.5MBIT/72.4MBIT Here is a line of drives that should do sustained tranfers of 4MB to 9MB/sec avaliable in both SCSI and ATA. Me personally, only use ATA when I have to and/or when the customer is cutting cost. I wonder what Poul's little test would like like if I compared the two versions of that TRS-31080, how much CPU would I need to keep up with 9MB/sec PIO :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 11:17:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA12189 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:17:37 -0800 Received: from ns.gte.com (ns.gte.com [132.197.8.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA12178 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:17:35 -0800 Received: by ns.gte.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id OAA05736; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:15:09 -0500 Received: from bunny.gte.com(132.197.8.1) by cliff via smap (V1.3) id sma005725; Wed Mar 22 14:15:01 1995 Received: by bunny.gte.com (8.6.9/GTEL2.19) id OAA23800; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:16:41 -0500 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id NAA13385; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:01:37 GMT Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:01:37 GMT From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199503221301.NAA13385@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Intel stuff, FWIW Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For what it's worth, I just upgraded my 486DX2/50 EISA Anigma motherboard to one of the DX4/100 chips (no overdrive socket, power conversion onboard). The motherboard clocks at either 25 or 33Mhz. FreeBSD 1.1.5 is still cranking along just fine. I haven't seen any signs of the panic mentioned last week. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 11:59:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA13330 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:59:12 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA13324 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:59:09 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA09924; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:58:09 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503221958.LAA09924@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:58:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: bob%obiwan@yedi.iaf.nl, amurai@spec.co.jp, dufault@hda.com, pst@Shockwave.COM, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503212123.WAA01722@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Mar 21, 95 10:23:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 988 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Atsushi MURAI wrote: > > > > > > > > bt0: targ 0 sync rate=10.00MB/s(100ns), offset=15 > > > > > bt0: targ 1 sync rate= 4.54MB/s(220ns), offset=15 > > > > > bt0: targ 4 async > > > > > bt0: targ 6 async > > > > > > It's a common information for SCSI bus by each target and card. So I > > > will recommend these information should be saved into common > > Leave out the 100ns stuff, it's redundant. Other than that, it looks OK > to me. BTW what means 'offset' in this case? Offset is how many bytes you can have unacked during a sync transfer, think of it as a TCP window size. The bigger the better, 15 is the max! > > I agree very strongly with Atsushi on this. I use these as visible evidence > > that all the negotiations are going as I expected. Without them you're left > > in the dark. > > Yep, good idea! > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:04:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13392 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:04:04 -0800 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA13386 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:04:03 -0800 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0rrWd0-0000yFC; Wed, 22 Mar 95 12:03 PST Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA03734; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:04:00 -0800 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199503222004.MAA03734@io.cts.com> Subject: Re: sio overruns To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:04:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: mdavis@io.cts.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221357.HAA13631@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 22, 95 07:57:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 690 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter da Silva writes: > > > FYI: I've got a device connected to a serial port (a BBS) that > > requires DCD up all the time. However, every now and then a caller > > connects to the port via cu and drops carrier. [...] > > You're using the same patch to "cu" that I am? I don't have this problem: Yes -- the same patched one that provides the -E option for disabling the escape character (and other character processing). It's invoked as: cu -E ^@ -l serial -s 38400 "serial" is a symlink to cuaa1 (which is the internal COM 2 port on this box). > What device do you have the getty on in /etc/ttys for the modem? The dialin modem is a COM 3 internal V.FC modem. It's on ttyd2. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:06:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13443 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:06:39 -0800 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA13437; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:06:37 -0800 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA04474; Wed, 22 Mar 95 15:05:52 -0500 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA25794; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:05:52 -0500 Message-Id: <9503222005.AA25794@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:36:49 PST. <11468.795897409@freefall.cdrom.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:05:51 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Contrib on ftp.x.org. Or try NCD (Network Computing Devices). The LBX > > (Low Bandwidth X) was developed by Mike(?) @ NCD and given to the X > > people for inclusion. They wanted to modify it somewhat before the > > released it. I believe the NCD code is out there under the name XRemote. > > Uh, no. I know about LBX and it's not what I'm looking for. I'm > looking for something that SPOOFS as a server and does very simplistic > yet effective compression schemes on the datastream. It's much easier > to use across different server and client environments (neither server > nor client need ever know) and it's a lot less reading than the LBX > documentation! :-) > > You're probably thinking of SXPC, look at ftp://ftp.x.org/R5contrib/sxpc-1.4.shar.Z -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:19:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13671 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:19:17 -0800 Received: from efn.efn.org (root@efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA13665; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:19:15 -0800 Received: from haus.efn.org.efn.org by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA07824; Wed, 22 Mar 95 12:18:06 PST Received: by haus.efn.org.efn.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15851; Wed, 22 Mar 95 12:18:24 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:18:24 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-Reply-To: <199503220841.AAA04565@ref.tfs.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for > FreeBSD: here is my test of IDE using an EIDE disk on a VL/EIDE controler with dual channel... and using the patches submitted a while ago to use 32-bit data transfer of the vl/eide card... > 540868608 bytes transferred in 240 secs (2253619 bytes/sec) > > Here is what "systat" tells me: > 2.0%Sys 82.0%Intr 0.5%User 0.0%Nice 15.6%Idle > | | | | | | | | | | > =+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ok... mine was using a Conner CFA-850a (if I remeber right) only 540868608 bytes transferred in 336 secs (1609728 bytes/sec) but on a 486/33DX running at 40... I never passed 14% on system... I don't have intr as I only am using 2.0... and I might add this was under a multiuser system... and the adverage was about 5% sys... it was generating about 3000 inters a second and near then end jumped up to 4000... > > Quantum Empire 2100 SCSI-II disk on VL-buslogic controller: > ------------------------------------------------------------- > dd if=/dev/rsd0d of=/dev/null bs=64k count=8253 > 8253+0 records in > 8253+0 records out > 540868608 bytes transferred in 110 secs (4916987 bytes/sec) > > Here is what "systat" tells me: > 5.6%Sys 20.6%Intr 0.2%User 0.0%Nice 73.6%Idle > | | | | | | | | | | > ===++++++++++ > > CONCLUSION: > ----------- > The SCSI-controller transfers twice as much data in the same time, and > uses only 25% of the CPU resources the IDE-controller needs. was the IDE isa? or using the same footing as the vl/bus SCSI? not to flame or anything... John-Mark Gurney gurney_j@efn.org -or- gurney_j@4j.lane.edu -or- Fido: John-Mark Gurney @ 1:152/56.2 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:20:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13702 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:20:02 -0800 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA13686; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:19:55 -0800 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA23051; Wed, 22 Mar 95 21:18:54 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 21:18:54 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9503222018.AA23051@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11468.795897409@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: >> Contrib on ftp.x.org. Or try NCD (Network Computing Devices). The LBX >> (Low Bandwidth X) was developed by Mike(?) @ NCD and given to the X >> people for inclusion. They wanted to modify it somewhat before the >> released it. I believe the NCD code is out there under the name XRemote. > Uh, no. I know about LBX and it's not what I'm looking for. I'm > looking for something that SPOOFS as a server and does very simplistic > yet effective compression schemes on the datastream. It's much easier > to use across different server and client environments (neither server > nor client need ever know) and it's a lot less reading than the LBX > documentation! :-) Maybe sxpc? The Simple X Protocol Compressor This program provides compression of the X protocol stream. It is intended to be used to improve the performance of X applications over a slow internet connection. (e.g. slip,cslip. or term) It assumes a Unix operating system at both ends of the link. Transferring large bitmaps or images through sxpc may be slower than not using it. The algorithms used are geared primarily for the data exchanged during interactive use where the same data may be sent several times with only small changes. (e.g. editing) http://ftp.x.org/R5contrib/sxpc-1.4.shar.Z > Jordan Jean-Marc ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:22:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13748 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:22:06 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA13740 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:22:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA05022; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:23:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199503222023.NAA05022@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: mmead@goof.com Subject: Re: kernel hang In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:17:04 EST." <199503221817.NAA00249@goof.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:23:18 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > Well, like I posted earlier, I left my machine sitting at virtual console > 0, in hopes of seeing some message, but alas, none was on the screen when I got > back to the machine after it had hung. Any ideas? This has only started > occurring in the past 2 days with freshly supped kernels each night. I have same problem. WHat I did: downloaded current src/sys/* (late 3-21/early 3-22) downloaded current src/sbin/config/* (midday 3-22) copied src/sys/sys/* /usr/include/sys built & installed config config GENERIC; make depend; make mv kernel /kernel.x ln kernel.x kernel halt (reset) What happens: after approx. 2-3 minutes the system wedges. I think it is related to routed, ie, it happens when the default route goes away. With my configuration the default route goes away after several minutes (always been a problem for me, even with my old BSDI system. I am used to doing a manual "route add default xxx" several minutes after any reboot. If anyone knows a solution..., but I digress) Anyways, my intuition said default route so I rebooted, started a ping to this box from annother, then did a manual "route delete default" and the system wedges. The ping on the other box stops at that instant. I can still ALT-FN to other vttys but they don't respond to keystrokes. I repeated this experiment 3 times, always same result. BTW, I updated to be able to run gdb on the restore/4mmDAT panic problem. This new kernel DOESN'T panic, but gives a message about sense failure, if only kernel would stay up long enough to do something... Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:32:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA13943 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:32:18 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA13936; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:32:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 15:05:51 EST." <9503222005.AA25794@fedora.x.org> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:32:17 -0800 Message-ID: <13934.795904337@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You're probably thinking of SXPC, look at > > ftp://ftp.x.org/R5contrib/sxpc-1.4.shar.Z BINGO! Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:40:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14204 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:40:29 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA14198 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:40:28 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA16300; Wed, 22 Mar 95 20:40:05 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA17027; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:39:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:39:50 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9503222039.AA17027@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221753.SAA05048@nietzsche> (wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl) Subject: Re: Strange behaviour of sh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Marc" == wmbfmk@urc tue nl writes: Marc> The above line is the correct syntax to redirect stdout and Marc> stderr to a file or isn't it? No, it's the correct syntax for csh. For sh, do cat foo0 > foo1 2>&1 --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 12:47:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA14323 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:47:50 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA14316; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:47:48 -0800 Received: from netcom8.netcom.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA15667; Wed, 22 Mar 95 12:44:06 -0800 Received: by netcom8.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id MAA22980; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:40:10 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:40:10 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199503222040.MAA22980@netcom8.netcom.com> To: gj@FreeBSD.org, jmacd%freefall.cdrom.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: tgdb Cc: chuckr%Glue.umd.edu@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, ports%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You can blt-1.3 at: ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty/BLT-1.3.tar.gz Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 13:44:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA15851 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:44:13 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA15844 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:44:11 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: kernel hang To: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com (Steve Passe) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:42:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, mmead@goof.com In-Reply-To: <199503222023.NAA05022@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Mar 22, 95 01:23:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 170 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm also seeing 'hangs' Pentium-60 buslogic 742 32MB ram keyboard still responds to ALT_CTL_ESC (with no debugger in kernel) so I'll try make a kernel with DDB julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:01:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16374 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:01:24 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16366 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:01:18 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA21432 ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:01:19 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04359; Wed, 22 Mar 95 23:01:03 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503222201.AA04359@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Strange behaviour of sh To: wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:01:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221753.SAA05048@nietzsche> from "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" at Mar 22, 95 06:53:01 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#429 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 350 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > cat foo0 >& foo1 > > sh responds with: > > Syntax error: bad fd number For sh type shells (sh, ash, bash) you'll need to use that form : foo >foo1 2>&1 The syntax you used is for csh-type shells. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #1: Mon Mar 6 23:55:18 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:04:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16462 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:04:08 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16456; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:04:04 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA21448 ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:04:03 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04414; Wed, 22 Mar 95 23:03:47 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503222203.AA04414@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:03:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503221809.KAA10953@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 22, 95 10:09:40 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#429 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 485 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I remember testing it out at the time and finding a reasonable performance > boost for a cheap solution (masquerade as server, compress on the fly). You must speak of tcx : 210 [22:41] roberto@keltia:CTM/4xx> grep tcx /sources/CATALOGUE 3 Jan 1995 20.5 Ko /sources/compress/tcx.tar.gz It will be in a few seconds in your mailbox. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #1: Mon Mar 6 23:55:18 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:05:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16491 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:05:19 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16485; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:05:14 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA21459 ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:05:15 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04451; Wed, 22 Mar 95 23:04:58 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503222204.AA04451@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:04:58 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503221809.KAA10953@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 22, 95 10:09:40 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#429 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 402 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I remember some time back, someone posted one of those user-mode X11 > compression tools, and now that I'd really like to play with it I can't > find it again! :-( Sorry, the one I've sent you is for files not for X11. Not enough coffee will kill me :-( -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #1: Mon Mar 6 23:55:18 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:21:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16977 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:21:18 -0800 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16971 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:21:15 -0800 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id RAA05886; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:16:31 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199503222216.RAA05886@hda.com> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/pci ncr.c To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:16:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503221917.LAA03365@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Mar 22, 95 11:17:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 977 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs writes: > > >Stefan Esser writes: > >> > >> se 95/03/22 03:00:25 > >> > >> Modified: sys/pci ncr.c > >> Log: > >> Remove use of unitialised variable xp->req_sense_length. > >> > >> Submitted by: Wolfgang Stanglmeier > > > >Could you set it up to use this as the sense length to request? > >The Microtek Scanmaker series of scanners needs to have an exact > >number of bytes requested for sense. The 154x (and I hope 174x) > >drivers use this properly. > > > >Peter > > I didn't know about this field, but I'll make the aic7xxx driver > compliant. No need. As Stefan pointed out in private e-mail it is no longer used. It used to be used in 386bsd in the /dev/scsi SGI library clone, but that is superceded by the new library. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:39:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17410 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:39:56 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17404 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:39:53 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01037; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:35:11 GMT Message-Id: <199503221435.OAA01037@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Jim Lowe cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Sound card configurations + questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:06:08 CST." <199503221606.KAA06299@allmalt.cs.uwm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:35:09 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Questions: >Has the old full duplex code been brought forward into the new sound >drivers for the gus card? If not, is someone already doing this or should >I take a hack at it? That stuff should be in ... The last buffer gets played twice so there is at least one bug that I know of. To the best of my knowledge no one has the vat driver working with sys-current and I am not working on it. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:42:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17452 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:42:54 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17446; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:42:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01096; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:38:17 GMT Message-Id: <199503221438.OAA01096@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 10:09:40 PST." <199503221809.KAA10953@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:38:16 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The program that you are thinking of is "term". Hunt around any linux archive. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:47:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17575 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:47:22 -0800 Received: from cerc.wvu.edu (cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu [157.182.44.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA17568 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:47:20 -0800 Received: from gilmer (gilmer.cerc.wvu.edu) by cerc.wvu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0:RAL-041790) id AA23606; Wed, 22 Mar 95 17:46:39 EST From: kiran@cerc.wvu.edu (Kiran Reddy) Received: by gilmer (5.65//ident-1.0) id AA17313; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:46:37 -0500 Message-Id: <9503222246.AA17313@gilmer> Subject: i can help To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:46:36 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 217 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hello guys, i am a grad student at West Virginia University and I think i can help you guyswith some of the work. Please let me know in what way can i be a help to you guys. Thanks. Kiran Reddy. kiran@cerc.wvu.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 14:59:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA17737 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:59:01 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA17730 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:58:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA05782; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:00:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199503222300.QAA05782@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: julian@tfs.com Subject: Re: kernel hang In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 13:42:46 PST." Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:00:17 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, short term fix: current theory is that there is a problem with routing code. I have been able to keep from hanging by disabling routed in /etc/rc (i also removed the default router setup in netstart but not sure if that is also necessary) Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 15:09:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA18041 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:09:12 -0800 Received: from news.rim.or.jp (news.rim.or.jp [202.255.181.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18030 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:09:09 -0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news.rim.or.jp (8.6.10+2.4W/3.3W-rim1.0) with UUCP id IAA01119; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:08:51 +0900 Received: (from sa2c@localhost) by us.and.or.jp (8.6.11/3.3W8) id HAA00283; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:58:30 +0900 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:58:30 +0900 From: NIIMI Satoshi Message-Id: <199503222258.HAA00283@us.and.or.jp> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) In-reply-to: terry@cs.weber.edu's message of Wed, 22 Mar 95 11:31:25 MST Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-to: sa2c@st.rim.or.jp Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The first third party LKM was a console driver called "World 21". It > was an ISO 2022 driver based on (I think) JIS 212 (might have been the > older 208). This was released for NetBSD. I have a copy of it > somewhere, but would have to really did to find it. I am sure it is > on one of 20+ tapes. JIS X0208 is a basic character set of Japanese. JIS X0212 is a supplemental character set. World21 can display these character set and GB2312, KSC5601, etc. -- NIIMI Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 15:22:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA18232 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:22:50 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18226 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:22:47 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01780 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:18:04 GMT Message-Id: <199503221518.PAA01780@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 11:15:44 PST." <199503221915.LAA09736@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 15:18:02 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well to check out the assumption that synchronous updates affect the performace of normal file copies, I did a simple test: /bg is mounted normally time cp -R /bg/sys /bg/test 0.211u 8.486s 2:56.21 4.9% 62+413k 3634+8707io 3pf+0w Now with /bg mounted asynchronously: /bg > mount /dev/sd0a on / (local) /dev/sd0f on /usr (local) /dev/sd0e on /var (local) procfs on /proc (local) /dev/sd1f on /bg (asynchronous, local) /bg > time cp -R /bg/sys /bg/test1 0.204u 8.544s 2:51.12 5.1% 63+427k 3669+8706io 0pf+0w Is only 5 secondes faster... Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 16:16:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA19322 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:16:54 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA19315 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:16:48 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA06133 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:18:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199503230018.RAA06133@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: kernel hang In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:59:34 EST." <199503222359.SAA05291@goof.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:18:13 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > > I found that I can avoid the hang by disabling the routed > > in /etc/rc. (also the default route line in netstart. > How does your network function properly without either of those? It doesn't, however I can communicate with other machines on my local network thru entries in /etc/hosts. As I said, "short term fix". What it buys me is a current kernel that stays up and runs gdb without panic'ing! The problem is being worked on by the appropriate person(s) and I suspect a real fix will arrive shortly! Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 16:35:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA19880 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:35:31 -0800 Received: from gloworm.Stanford.EDU (gloworm.Stanford.EDU [36.2.0.100]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA19874 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:35:30 -0800 Received: from localhost.Stanford.EDU (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by gloworm.Stanford.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA05948; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:35:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230035.QAA05948@gloworm.Stanford.EDU> X-Authentication-Warning: gloworm.Stanford.EDU: Host localhost.Stanford.EDU didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 14:38:16 GMT." <199503221438.OAA01096@star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:35:15 -0800 From: Dan Yergeau Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: > >The program that you are thinking of is "term". Hunt around any linux >archive. I think that term only has generic compression. This is probably not optimal for X packets where a lot of the overhead is in the relatively big (nearly) duplicated headers. I tried term for running X applications over a V.32 modem link. The performance of an NCD X-terminal (with XRemote, which is approx equiv to LBX) was significantly better over the same link. If I could figure out how to "use" LBX, I'd give it a try. BTW, the fastest channel multiplexer I've found is layers (a unix client for MacLayers). It provides very low overhead multiple terminal sessions over a single link and file transfer (via zmodem), but no additional features like IP redirection or remote X connections. Editing over a 9600 bps link feels like a straight 9600 bps link, unlike term, which feels as bad as SLIP. File transfer nearly maxes out the available bandwidth. Of course, response does slow down a bit during file transfers. Dan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 16:54:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA20997 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:54:20 -0800 Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA20990 for hackers; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:54:20 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 16:54:20 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199503230054.QAA20990@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: Interop Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm going to interop next week It just occured to me that if I could take a bunch (like 50) cdroms of 2.0 with me, and handed them out to every technical type I saw on stands with PC compatibel networking cards, or network based software, I might precipitate a few drivers.. :) whadjarekon? julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 17:05:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA21521 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:05:42 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA21515 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:05:37 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA29448 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:48:59 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA29797; 22 Mar 95 18:48:08 CST (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA29794; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:48:08 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503230048.SAA29794@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: sio overruns To: root@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:48:07 -0600 (CST) Cc: mdavis@io.cts.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503222004.MAA03734@io.cts.com> from "Morgan Davis" at Mar 22, 95 12:04:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 646 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes -- the same patched one that provides the -E option for disabling > the escape character (and other character processing). It's invoked > as: > cu -E ^@ -l serial -s 38400 Try cu -E "" -l serial -s 38400 Unless there's something obscure I missed, it doesn't do ^X processing on the escape string, and anyway it's a *string* so "" and "\0" look the same. > "serial" is a symlink to cuaa1 (which is the internal COM 2 port on > this box). cuaa1? Not cua01? Is this a change in 2.0? > > What device do you have the getty on in /etc/ttys for the modem? > The dialin modem is a COM 3 internal V.FC modem. It's on ttyd2. Should work. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 17:09:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA21607 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:09:36 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21601 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:09:32 -0800 Received: from jsdinc.root.com (uucp@localhost) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with UUCP id RAA04426; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:09:07 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by jsdinc.root.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id TAA00296; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:59:28 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199503221959.TAA00296@jsdinc.root.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: star-gate.com!hasty@implode.root.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:59:28 +0000 () Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221518.PAA01780@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 22, 95 03:18:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 127 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is only 5 secondes faster... > I believe that async mounts are essentially unimplemented in UFS??? John dyson@root.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 17:38:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA22425 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:38:29 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA22418; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:38:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Interop In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 16:54:20 PST." <199503230054.QAA20990@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:38:27 -0800 Message-ID: <22417.795922707@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hook up with Walnut Creek's booth at Interop. I'll tell them to release about 30 of the CDs to you, though I actually think you'll have trouble getting rid of them all. Once you actually start talking to people, you find that the number who actually know what freebsd is and/or are willing to put any kind of investment into being educated is rather small. Go for quality contacts, not quantity contacts.. Later, for 2.1 when we've got a much smoother product and a couple of xerox'd articles and glossy pictures to hand out as "product info", we should go for as many vendors as we can talk into it (and I'm already scheduled to be at a number of shows for this purpose). Jordan > Hi, > I'm going to interop next week > It just occured to me that if I could take a bunch > (like 50) cdroms of 2.0 with me, and handed them out to every technical > type I saw on stands with PC compatibel networking cards, or > network based software, I might precipitate a few drivers.. :) > > whadjarekon? > > julian > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 17:41:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA22528 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:41:22 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA22521 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:41:21 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA15550; Wed, 22 Mar 95 18:34:54 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503230134.AA15550@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: toor@jsdinc.root.com (John S. Dyson) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 18:34:54 MST Cc: star-gate.com!hasty@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221959.TAA00296@jsdinc.root.com> from "John S. Dyson" at Mar 22, 95 07:59:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is only 5 secondes faster... > > > I believe that async mounts are essentially unimplemented in UFS??? What do you mean "async mounts"? Since kernel entry via system call is atomic unless you have SMP or multithreading to support multiple kernel thread contexts, it really can't be anything but synchronous. A UFS mount in the kernel goes to the device, reads the volume header and superblock into core, gets a vnode for inode 2, and arranges to have references to the vnode in the file system it is mounted into return vnode 2 of the mounted fs. Then it returns from the mount call. This is synchronous, but it is also guaranteed to be deterministically quick, by definition. Am I missing something about what you mean when you say "async mounts"? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 17:51:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA22853 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:51:16 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA22847 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:51:14 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA00964; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:46:22 GMT Message-Id: <199503221746.RAA00964@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: toor@jsdinc.root.com (John S. Dyson), star-gate.com!hasty@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:34:54 MST." <9503230134.AA15550@cs.weber.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:46:21 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Is only 5 secondes faster... > > > > > I believe that async mounts are essentially unimplemented in UFS??? > > What do you mean "async mounts"? mount -o async /dev/ ... Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 17:55:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA23069 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:55:32 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA23049 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:55:28 -0800 Received: from jsdinc.root.com (uucp@localhost) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with UUCP id RAA04561; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 17:55:04 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by jsdinc.root.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id UAA00587; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:58:01 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199503222058.UAA00587@jsdinc.root.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: cs.weber.edu!terry@implode.root.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:58:00 +0000 () Cc: toor@Root.COM, star-gate.com!hasty@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9503230134.AA15550@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 22, 95 06:34:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1053 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What do you mean "async mounts"? > > Since kernel entry via system call is atomic unless you have SMP > or multithreading to support multiple kernel thread contexts, it > really can't be anything but synchronous. > > A UFS mount in the kernel goes to the device, reads the volume > header and superblock into core, gets a vnode for inode 2, and > arranges to have references to the vnode in the file system it > is mounted into return vnode 2 of the mounted fs. Then it > returns from the mount call. > > This is synchronous, but it is also guaranteed to be deterministically > quick, by definition. > > Am I missing something about what you mean when you say "async mounts"? > You are missing my point (listen to what I mean, not what I say :-)). What I meant was that the async option is essentially ignored. In essence, the UFS does not act differently whether or not the async option is specified. Hmm, true async mounts -- better hold up V2.1, sounds like a neat feature :-). (PLEASE DONT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY). John dyson@root.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 18:00:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA23421 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:00:18 -0800 Received: from ns.gte.com (ns.gte.com [132.197.8.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23414 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:00:17 -0800 Received: by ns.gte.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id UAA18213; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:57:49 -0500 Received: from bunny.gte.com(132.197.8.1) by cliff via smap (V1.3) id sma018194; Wed Mar 22 20:57:24 1995 Received: by bunny.gte.com (8.6.9/GTEL2.19) id UAA05847; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:59:02 -0500 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id UAA18003; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:25:42 GMT Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:25:42 GMT From: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199503222025.UAA18003@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: sup average size Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am considering keeping my system up to date running -current. Is it feasible to do this over a 14.4K slip dialup? I plan on checking in about every 24-48 hours. Any idea what an average transfer size would be for sup if I updated within that inverval? Thanks, - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 18:05:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA23641 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:05:26 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA23634; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:05:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sup average size In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 20:25:42 GMT." <199503222025.UAA18003@genesis.tiac.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:05:25 -0800 Message-ID: <23633.795924325@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually, I think CTM is rather ideally suited to this.. Talk to phk@freebsd.org Jordan > I am considering keeping my system up to date running -current. Is it > feasible to do this over a 14.4K slip dialup? I plan on checking in > about every 24-48 hours. Any idea what an average transfer size > would be for sup if I updated within that inverval? > > Thanks, > - Steve > steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 18:06:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA23689 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:06:29 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23683 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 18:06:28 -0800 Received: from latte.eng.umd.edu (latte.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.15]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id VAA21320; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:06:08 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by latte.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id VAA28728; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:06:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 21:06:05 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Dan Yergeau cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. In-Reply-To: <199503230035.QAA05948@gloworm.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, Dan Yergeau wrote: > Amancio Hasty writes: > > > >The program that you are thinking of is "term". Hunt around any linux > >archive. > > I think that term only has generic compression. This is probably > not optimal for X packets where a lot of the overhead is in the > relatively big (nearly) duplicated headers. Dan, it matters how you set term up. I run Mosaic at home, on my X server. The mosaic binary knows about term directly (I invoke it with the -term option) so the X stuff is local, only the network stuff goes out over the async line. I get very spiffy performance out of this, often better than the on-campus folks (they have to share the X resources with other users, I don't). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 19:01:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA25407 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:01:03 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25399 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:00:58 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA11250; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:00:31 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503230300.TAA11250@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: sup average size To: steve2@genesis.tiac.net (Steve Gerakines) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:00:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503222025.UAA18003@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Mar 22, 95 08:25:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 605 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I am considering keeping my system up to date running -current. Is it > feasible to do this over a 14.4K slip dialup? I plan on checking in > about every 24-48 hours. Any idea what an average transfer size > would be for sup if I updated within that inverval? Depends on what goes on with the tree, if you want absolute minium transfer sizes ctm is the way to go via email, though it has problems on rare occasion (but then, so does sup). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 19:06:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA25592 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:06:24 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25567; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:06:07 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA05310; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 03:06:02 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503230306.DAA05310@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 03:06:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220841.AAA04565@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 22, 95 00:41:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 564 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Poul-Henning Kamp who said > > I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for > FreeBSD: > Well, no-one doubted this but your test is a little unfair on EIDE. You may still end up being right but until we have true EIDE support we can't really judge how well it's going to perform. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 19:07:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA25761 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:07:58 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25753; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:07:55 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA07865; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:07:17 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503230307.TAA07865@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:07:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, faq@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230306.DAA05310@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Mar 23, 95 03:06:01 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 644 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reply to Poul-Henning Kamp who said > > > > I just made a simple test, this shows why IDE is inferior to SCSI for > > FreeBSD: > > > > Well, no-one doubted this but your test is a little unfair on EIDE. You may > still end up being right but until we have true EIDE support we can't really > judge how well it's going to perform. As you will notice, I compared IDE to SCSI, not EIDE to SCSI When we have EIDE, I will damn that in a separate message :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 19:46:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA27320 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:46:42 -0800 Received: from ix2.ix.netcom.com (ix2.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA27311 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:46:39 -0800 Received: from by ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.11/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id TAA12714; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:44:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:44:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230344.TAA12714@ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: ata/ide sector translation modes c/h/s vs. LBA? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I know you all must now be tired of all the ATA questions, but ... Why does the ATA standard make such a big stink about LBA mode?? As I see it, either way, you have to translate either mode into: Sector Number Cylinder Low Cylinder High Dev/Head So, how does LBA mode improve performance -- isn't it just a different set of calculations that need be done before *Each* command?? Am I missing something? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 20:15:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28096 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:15:17 -0800 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28090 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:15:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA03926; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:07:27 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199503231407.JAA03926@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Fix for 3C509 (ep) driver To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:07:26 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220845.AAA04589@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 22, 95 00:45:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2173 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I done some fixes in ep driver: #start here cd /usr/src/sys/i386/isa patch if_ep.c < /* > * March 23 1995 > * > * Promiscuous mode added and interrupt logic slightly changed > * to reduce the number of adapter failures (based on logic of > * BSDI's ef driver) by: > * Serge Babkin > * Chelindbank (Chelyabinsk, Russia) > * babkin@hq.icb.chel.su > */ > 454,455c465,470 < outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_RX_FILTER | FIL_INDIVIDUAL | < FIL_GROUP | FIL_BRDCST); --- > if(ep_ftst(F_PROMISC)) > outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_RX_FILTER | FIL_INDIVIDUAL | > FIL_GROUP | FIL_BRDCST | FIL_ALL); > else > outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_RX_FILTER | FIL_INDIVIDUAL | > FIL_GROUP | FIL_BRDCST); 646,647c661,662 < outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK); /* disable all Ints */ < outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, C_INTR_LATCH); /* ACK int Latch */ --- > rescan: > /* outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK); /* disable all Ints */ 675c690 < printf("ep%d: Status: %x\n", unit, status); --- > printf("ep%d: Status: %x\n", unit, status); 719c734,739 < outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK | S_5_INTS); --- > /* outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK | S_5_INTS); */ > > outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, C_INTR_LATCH); /* ACK int Latch */ > > if ((status = inw(BASE + EP_STATUS)) & S_5_INTS) > goto rescan; 1018a1039,1048 > > if ( (ifp->if_flags & IFF_PROMISC) && !ep_ftst(F_PROMISC) ) { > ep_fset(F_PROMISC); > epinit(ifp->if_unit); > } > else if( !(ifp->if_flags & IFF_PROMISC) && ep_ftst(F_PROMISC) ) { > ep_frst(F_PROMISC); > epinit(ifp->if_unit); > } > EOF patch if_epreg.h < /* > * March 23 1995 > * > * Promiscuous mode added and interrupt logic slightly changed > * to reduce the number of adapter failures (based on logic of > * BSDI's ef driver) by: > * Serge Babkin > * Chelindbank (Chelyabinsk, Russia) > * babkin@hq.icb.chel.su > */ 57a68 > #define F_PROMISC 0x8 EOF # that's all Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 20:19:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28168 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:19:15 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28160 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:19:12 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA11500; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:18:49 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503230418.UAA11500@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ata/ide sector translation modes c/h/s vs. LBA? To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:18:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230344.TAA12714@ix2.ix.netcom.com> from "Paul Vinciguerra" at Mar 22, 95 07:44:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1019 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I know you all must now be tired of all the ATA questions, but ... > > Why does the ATA standard make such a big stink about LBA mode?? Because it is *new*, and allows you to use drives >536870912 bytes. > As I see it, either way, you have to translate either mode into: > > Sector Number > Cylinder Low > Cylinder High > Dev/Head > > So, how does LBA mode improve performance -- isn't it just a different > set of calculations that need be done before *Each* command?? Am I > missing something? It greatly simplifies the calculation for this. Basically a drive in LBA mode has 256 sectors, 16 heads and upto 1024 cylinders. The bios can then simply use OR and SHIFT to get a logical block number. I am leaving out lots of details, I have not yet unassembled awards LBA code so I am not sure of all the details, but that is the just of it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 20:36:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28510 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:36:29 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA28504 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:36:27 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA16722; Wed, 22 Mar 95 21:29:59 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503230429.AA16722@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 95 21:29:58 MST Cc: toor@jsdinc.root.com, star-gate.com!hasty@implode.root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503221746.RAA00964@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 22, 95 05:46:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What do you mean "async mounts"? > > mount -o async /dev/ ... Does nothing. The 'async' option if for when a process is around to do retries. Remote file system only, since a local file system will just mount successfully. Why, what do you think it should *do* instead? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 20:49:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28676 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:49:53 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28670 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:49:50 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA04849; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:49:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA02420; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:49:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230449.UAA02420@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 21:29:58 MST." <9503230429.AA16722@cs.weber.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:49:37 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > What do you mean "async mounts"? >> >> mount -o async /dev/ ... > >Does nothing. The 'async' option if for when a process is around to >do retries. Remote file system only, since a local file system will >just mount successfully. > >Why, what do you think it should *do* instead? It should do what the manual page says it does, which is to force all I/O to the filesystem to be done asynchronously. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 20:52:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28709 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:52:02 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28703 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:52:00 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA04853; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:51:43 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA02437; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:51:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230451.UAA02437@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Serge A. Babkin" cc: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Fix for 3C509 (ep) driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 95 09:07:26 EST." <199503231407.JAA03926@hq.icb.chel.su> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:51:37 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I done some fixes in ep driver: > >#start here >cd /usr/src/sys/i386/isa > >patch if_ep.c <39a40,50 >> /* >> * March 23 1995 >> * >> * Promiscuous mode added and interrupt logic slightly changed >> * to reduce the number of adapter failures (based on logic of >> * BSDI's ef driver) by: >> * Serge Babkin >> * Chelindbank (Chelyabinsk, Russia) >> * babkin@hq.icb.chel.su >> */ Would you please re-submit your changes in the form of a context diff? Also, I'm a bit concerned about copyright issues of "based on logic of BSDI's driver". -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:04:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA00350 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:04:34 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA00343 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:04:25 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA02231 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:36:16 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA04937; 22 Mar 95 23:35:37 CST (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA04934; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:35:37 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503230535.XAA04934@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:35:37 -0600 (CST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hasty@star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230449.UAA02420@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 22, 95 08:49:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 277 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It should do what the manual page says it does, which is to force all I/O > to the filesystem to be done asynchronously. Um, all I/O to the file system is already done asynchronously. It's got internal sequencing of metadata but that shouldn't be visible to the process. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:05:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAB00369 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:05:16 -0800 Received: from ix2.ix.netcom.com (ix2.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA00362 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:05:15 -0800 Received: from by ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.11/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id WAA03573; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:03:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:03:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230603.WAA03573@ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: suggestions/questions for WD.C To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk in wd.c, static int wdcommand(struct disk *du, u_int clyinder, u_int head, u_int sector, u_int count, u_int command); Can't this be reduced to: static int wdcommand(struct disk *du, u_int command); because blknum is derived from du and cyl,head,sector are translated before each call. Wouldn't this be cleaner? in wdcommand: if LBAmode { LBA Translation } else { CHS Translation } This seems to be much cleaner to me... (I'd be glad to submit the changes, if someone would tell me how to submit them via e-mail or ftp. I assume I DL WD.C in -current --make changes and UL modified WD.C to WHO??) also, repeatedly, int wdc is locally defined over and over again as du->dk_port. Isn't it nore efficient to replace this with a #define WDC du->dk_port?? In my scanning the code WDC is really a constant, so isn't it better to resolve it at compile time? Does any of this matter, or am I thinking too hard? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:09:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA00470 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:09:19 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA00464 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:09:16 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA05009; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:09:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA00166; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:09:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230609.WAA00166@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Peter da Silva cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hasty@star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 23:35:37 CST." <199503230535.XAA04934@bonkers.taronga.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:09:01 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> It should do what the manual page says it does, which is to force all I/O >> to the filesystem to be done asynchronously. > >Um, all I/O to the file system is already done asynchronously. It's got >internal sequencing of metadata but that shouldn't be visible to the >process. It's the metadata I/O that we're talking about. ...and yes, the process will definately see it if the operation involves lots of file creates. It is inherently unsafe to do metadata I/O asynchronously, which is why the manual page says: async All I/O to the file system should be done asynchronously. This is a dangerous flag to set, and should not be used unless you are prepared to recreate the file system should your system crash. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:12:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA00651 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:12:43 -0800 Received: from ix2.ix.netcom.com (ix2.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA00638 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:12:41 -0800 Received: from by ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.11/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id WAA04304; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:10:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:10:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230610.WAA04304@ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Subject line says it all. What is the preferred method for making contributions? And to whom are they made?? to Incoming? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:12:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA00664 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:12:55 -0800 Received: from coyote.rain.org (dcasba@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA00658 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:12:50 -0800 Received: by coyote.rain.org(8.6.10/RAIN-1.0) with id WAA11246 for on Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:07:24 -0800 From: Tom Gray - DCA Message-Id: <199503230607.WAA11246@coyote.rain.org> Subject: Re: uucp / serial port / modem problem To: didier@aida.remcomp.fr (Didier Derny) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:07:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Didier Derny" at Mar 22, 95 09:05:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1185 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi > > I recently replaced my old sportster 14400 by a brand new sportser 28800. > Every thing worked fine with my old modem but with the new modem I'n > not able to transfer more than 400kb before the connection hangs. > > I tried several modem paramter combinations, > uucp parameters configuretions, > some modifications in the 16550 fifo thresold but > without any success. > > If fact the problem occurs as soon as the speed is about 19200bds (on > the modem) I tried the serial port speed at 38400, 57600 and 115200 bds. > > Thanks for your help, > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Didier Derny > didier@aida.remcomp.fr > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > You should check the supervisor revision date of your sportster and possibly apply with U.S. Robotics for an upgrade. You can get the supervisor ROM revision date by issuing ATI7 to the modem. There is a revision date of august of last year that you should be wary of. If memory, serves an up-to-date ROM will reveal a date from Oct. of last year. Regards, JOhn John Poplett dcasba@pacrain.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:18:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA00842 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:18:07 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA00835 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:18:02 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA05057; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:17:49 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA00201; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:17:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199503230617.WAA00201@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 22:10:43 PST." <199503230610.WAA04304@ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:17:47 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Subject line says it all. What is the preferred method for making >contributions? And to whom are they made?? to Incoming? If it's a complete work, then 'incoming' is the best place. If it's just a patch and is of general interest, then post it here or to -current. If it is a patch that is not of general interest, send it to a core member such as myself or Jordan. Thanks... -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:34:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01046 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:34:06 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA01035 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:33:53 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA04092; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:28:32 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:28:32 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503230628.QAA04092@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ata/ide sector translation modes c/h/s vs. LBA? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Why does the ATA standard make such a big stink about LBA mode?? It doesn't. ATA-2 has only 42 lines of normal standardese about it. >As I see it, either way, you have to translate either mode into: > Sector Number > Cylinder Low > Cylinder High > Dev/Head No. In LBA mode, you only have to "translate" a 24 bit LBA into 3 bytes by writing it a byte at a time to the controller registers. The drive may or may not have to do more work to convert an LBA to an internal form than to convert from the currently specified geometry to an internal form. >So, how does LBA mode improve performance -- isn't it just a different >set of calculations that need be done before *Each* command?? Am I >missing something? It solves a whole microsecond or two, depending on how fast the cpu can do one div-mod, one div and one mod. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:46:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01374 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:46:15 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA01367; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:46:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 22:10:43 PST." <199503230610.WAA04304@ix2.ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:46:14 -0800 Message-ID: <1365.795941174@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What kinds of contributions? patches to /usr/src? Mail them to current@freebsd.org if they're relative to -current, hackers@freebsd.org otherwise. If they're more something like ports or packages, incoming is best. Jordan > Subject line says it all. What is the preferred method for making > contributions? And to whom are they made?? to Incoming? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:48:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01406 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:48:51 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA01399 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:48:35 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA04580; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:47:34 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:47:34 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503230647.QAA04580@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: ata/ide sector translation modes c/h/s vs. LBA? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Why does the ATA standard make such a big stink about LBA mode?? >Because it is *new*, and allows you to use drives >536870912 bytes. No. Even the old ATA standard specifies addressing drives with 65535(+1?) * 16 * 255 sectors (almost 128GB). LBA only increases the limit to 65536 * 16 * 256. See "Yet Another ATA-2/Fast-ATA/EIDE FAQ" in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage. >It greatly simplifies the calculation for this. Basically a drive ^slightly >in LBA mode has 256 sectors, 16 heads and upto 1024 cylinders. Up to 65536 or 65536 cylinders. Oops, in previous mail I said that LBA addresses are 24 bits. They are actually 28 bits (4 more in the old head bits). The bits are rearranged (the head bits become bits 24-27 of the LBA, and the braindamaged 1-based sector numbers are gone), so it is only a heuristic to think of the translation as giving a 256S * 16H geometry. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:58:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01568 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:58:28 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA01560 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:58:20 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11453; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:57:58 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id HAA20730 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:57:57 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA16895 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:57:36 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503230657.HAA16895@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: i can help To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:57:36 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9503222246.AA17313@gilmer> from "Kiran Reddy" at Mar 22, 95 05:46:36 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 382 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Kiran Reddy wrote: > > hello guys, > > i am a grad student at West Virginia University and I think i can help you guyswith some of the work. > Please let me know in what way can i be a help to you guys. I've sent him the TODO list. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 22:58:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA01558 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:58:18 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA01551 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 22:58:12 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11444; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:57:55 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id HAA20724; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:57:53 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA16866; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:55:54 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503230655.HAA16866@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. To: yergeau@gloworm.Stanford.EDU (Dan Yergeau) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:55:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: hasty@star-gate.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503230035.QAA05948@gloworm.Stanford.EDU> from "Dan Yergeau" at Mar 22, 95 04:35:15 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 509 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Dan Yergeau wrote: > > I tried term for running X applications over a V.32 modem link. The > performance of an NCD X-terminal (with XRemote, which is approx > equiv to LBX) was significantly better over the same link. If I > could figure out how to "use" LBX, I'd give it a try. On the remote side: lbxproxy -display home:0.0 :23.0 setenv DISPLAY :23.0 -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 23:36:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA02949 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:36:28 -0800 Received: from rivers.oscs.montana.edu (rivers.oscs.montana.edu [192.31.215.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA02943 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:36:27 -0800 Received: by rivers.oscs.montana.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14955; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:36:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:36:14 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Boerner To: Paul Vinciguerra Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? In-Reply-To: <199503230610.WAA04304@ix2.ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dito... If all that you want is a diff output, how should it be generated? On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, Paul Vinciguerra wrote: > Subject line says it all. What is the preferred method for making > contributions? And to whom are they made?? to Incoming? > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 23:39:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA03030 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:39:15 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA03012 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:38:57 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA05683; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:35:35 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:35:35 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503230735.RAA05683@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: suggestions/questions for WD.C Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >in wd.c, > static int wdcommand(struct disk *du, u_int clyinder, u_int > head, u_int sector, u_int count, u_int command); >Can't this be reduced to: > static int wdcommand(struct disk *du, u_int command); >because blknum is derived from du and cyl,head,sector are translated >before each call. Wouldn't this be cleaner? Yes. John fixed the multiple translation a couple of days ago, so the only wastage no is passing all those parameters around, but it's still wastage. The translation used to be cleaner if done in wdstart() (in the source code if not in space/time) because the C/H/S values were required for comparision with the raw BAD144 data. Several things would become less clean: the wdcommand() in wdsetctlr() would have to combine the parameters; so would new (misplaced) wdcommand()s in wdgetctlr() to set multi-mode and features; and the `#if 0' code in wddump() to print the C/H/S values would become mouldier. >in wdcommand: >if LBAmode { > LBA Translation } >else > { > CHS Translation } >This seems to be much cleaner to me... It's would be messier if you handled all the special commands. E.g., wdsetctlr() would have to check `LBAmode' to decide how to combine the paramters. wdcommand() should probably be split up. It's like it is because I got annoyed at sloppy and inconsistent timeout and error handling for different commands. >(I'd be glad to submit the changes, if someone would tell me how to >submit them via e-mail or ftp. I assume I DL WD.C in -current --make >changes and UL modified WD.C to WHO??) Small changes can be mailed the current or hackers mailing list. Lots of people are hacking on wd.c now so don't expect any particular changes to be used. >also, repeatedly, int wdc is locally defined over and over again as >du->dk_port. Isn't it nore efficient to replace this with a >#define WDC du->dk_port?? In my scanning the code WDC is really a >constant, so isn't it better to resolve it at compile time? It isn't constant. `wdc = du->dk_port' is better than du->dk_port iff the compiler can keep wdc in a register. `#define WDC(du) ((du)->dk_port)' is worse for efficiency because it hides the indirection -- unless the compiler can tell that du->dk_port can be kept in a register...hmm, gcc seems to do the right thing for `const' struct members. The FreeBSD sources currently aren't const-poisoned enough for gcc to optimize well :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 23:51:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA03195 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:51:08 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA03189 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:51:06 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA18879; Thu, 23 Mar 95 08:50:39 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id IAA14022 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:56:34 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:56:34 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199503230756.IAA14022@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: fast string inline routines (asm) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In the djgpp list a discussion came up recently about inlining (asm) fast memcpy/memmove/strcpy and such stuff and someone pointed out that Linux had these - I cite from Mat Hostetter: "Subject: Re: A quick way to copy n bytes NOTE: if people want to see some good implementations of these routines, you should check out the inline asm versions in the Linux headers, e.g. linux/asm/string.h. They are impressive." I wonder if FreeBSD can have these too. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Mar 22 04:54:59 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Mar 22 23:52:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA03217 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:52:15 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA03210 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:51:59 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA12733; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:51:36 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id IAA20948; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:51:35 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA17128; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:15:49 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503230715.IAA17128@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:15:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199503230617.WAA00201@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 22, 95 10:17:47 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1025 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > > >Subject line says it all. What is the preferred method for making > >contributions? And to whom are they made?? to Incoming? > > If it's a complete work, then 'incoming' is the best place. If it's just a > patch and is of general interest, then post it here or to -current. If it is a > patch that is not of general interest, send it to a core member such as myself > or Jordan. Better yet, unless it's really large, use send-pr for it (at least for bug fixes or small contributions). This makes the live of the core team easier. If you're going to port foreign software, watch out for the GUIDELINES file in /usr/ports. Essentially, don't send us a patched version of all the source, instead the patches along with the location of where the original source is living. (If all else fails, this can also be hosted somewhere at cdrom.com.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 00:03:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA03699 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:03:33 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA03692 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:03:22 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13102; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:02:15 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA21014; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:02:14 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA17467; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:58:19 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503230758.IAA17467@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? To: chaos@rivers.oscs.montana.edu (Jason Boerner) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:58:19 +0100 (MET) Cc: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jason Boerner" at Mar 23, 95 00:36:14 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1049 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jason Boerner wrote: > > Dito... If all that you want is a diff output, how should it be generated? cd /usr/src/where/it/lives diff -c file.orig file > /tmp/my.contribu.tion or cd /usr/src diff -c where/the/first/one/lives/file.orig where/the/first/one/lives/file \ > /tmp/my.contribu.tion diff -c where/another/one/lives/file.orig where/another/one/lives/file \ >> /tmp/my.contribu.tion The sequence (first file: .orig, second file: new one) is important to avoid confusion. You can also replace the ``-c'' by a ``-u'' (unified context diff), making the diff smaller. Be sure to specify what version the patch is against. Either ``2.0 RELEASE'', or specify the $Id$ strings of the source files. Telling ``-current as of Foocember 5th'' is too imprecise. (Even ``2.0-950210-SNAP'' is problematically, since the tree has not been tagged for the SNAPs. Yes, i'm guilty of this one, too. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 00:16:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA03996 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:16:29 -0800 Received: from lirmm.lirmm.fr (lirmm.lirmm.fr [193.49.104.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA03990 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:16:27 -0800 Received: from lirmm.fr (baobab.lirmm.fr [193.49.106.14]) by lirmm.lirmm.fr (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA00278; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:16:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199503230816.JAA00278@lirmm.lirmm.fr> To: Jason Boerner Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:36:14 MST." Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:16:05 +0100 From: "Philippe Charnier" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Salut, In the message Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes?, Jason Boerner wrote : >Dito... If all that you want is a diff output, how should it be generated? > diff -c original-file new-file > patch-file or diff -u original-file new-file > patch-file -------- -------- Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 00:17:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA04012 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:17:28 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA04001 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:16:56 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13433; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:16:16 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA21181; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:16:16 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA17664; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:15:14 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503230815.JAA17664@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: fast string inline routines (asm) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:15:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503230756.IAA14022@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Mar 23, 95 08:56:34 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 833 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > In the djgpp list a discussion came up recently about inlining (asm) > fast memcpy/memmove/strcpy and such stuff and someone pointed out that > Linux had these - I cite from Mat Hostetter: Do you mean those? They are not inlined, but regular lib functions. Can you compare them against the Linux versions? j@uriah 250% ls /usr/src/lib/libc/i386/string/ /usr/src/lib/libc/i386/string: CVS/ bzero.S memcmp.S strcat.S strlen.S Makefile.inc ffs.S memmove.S strchr.S strncmp.S bcmp.S index.S memset.S strcmp.S strrchr.S bcopy.S memchr.S rindex.S strcpy.S swab.S -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 00:30:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA04233 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:30:13 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA04227 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:30:09 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA19101; Thu, 23 Mar 95 09:29:51 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA14369; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:35:46 +0100 Message-Id: <199503230835.JAA14369@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: fast string inline routines (asm) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:35:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) In-Reply-To: <199503230815.JAA17664@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 23, 95 09:15:13 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1383 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > In the djgpp list a discussion came up recently about inlining (asm) > > fast memcpy/memmove/strcpy and such stuff and someone pointed out that > > Linux had these - I cite from Mat Hostetter: > > Do you mean those? They are not inlined, but regular lib functions. > > Can you compare them against the Linux versions? Sorry, I don't have a Linux system in reach (for the moment, though I have two CDs lying here but Linux installation is a horror to me :-) The mainline of that discussion was asm inlining and I assume that the functions in question are defines as inline asm code in the header file (string.h). > > j@uriah 250% ls /usr/src/lib/libc/i386/string/ > /usr/src/lib/libc/i386/string: > CVS/ bzero.S memcmp.S strcat.S strlen.S > Makefile.inc ffs.S memmove.S strchr.S strncmp.S > bcmp.S index.S memset.S strcmp.S strrchr.S > bcopy.S memchr.S rindex.S strcpy.S swab.S > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Mar 22 04:54:59 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 00:43:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA04563 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:43:32 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA04557 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:43:31 -0800 From: hswu@teleport.com Received: from ip-pdx1-02.teleport.com (ip-pdx1-02.teleport.com [204.119.60.66]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA19532 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:43:01 -0800 Received: by ip-pdx1-02.teleport.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.6)/1.0um) id AA0031; Thu, 23 Mar 95 00:41:44 -0800 Message-Id: <9503230841.AA0031@ip-pdx1-02.teleport.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 00:13:33 -0800 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: hswu@teleport.com X-Mailer: Ultimedia Mail/2 Lite, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Id: <21_73_1_795935614> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Description: Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've just got my copy of FreeBSD 2.0 and found out that I couldn't install it to my hard disk. Here's what I did: Following the instructions in INSTALL, using the hd0, labeling a(64MB) = '/', b(32MB) = 'swap', and h(402MB) = '/usr'. Here's the problem: When type 'p' for proceeding, An fatal error msg showed up: "Exec (/stand/newfs) failed, code = 5888". The debug screen said: Progress with block size of 32768 minimum bytes per inode is 5990 Minimum bytes per inode is 5990 With 16065 sectors per cylinder, minimum cylinders per group is 64 This requires the block size to be changed from 8192 to 32768 and the fregment size to be changed from 1024 to 4096. Here's my hardware configs: Box: Gateway 2000 4DX2-66VL Processor: 486DX2 66 Memory: 36MB Bus: Vesa Local Bus * 2 ISA * 6 Disk System (All SCSI): Adapter: Adaptec 2842VL (AIC-7770) VL-Bus Disk 1 (PUN 0, LUN 0): Fujitsu M2694ES-512 ANSI SCSI-2 1,038 MB Disk 2 (PUN 1, LUN 0): Micropolis 2217-15MQ1001901 ANSI SCSI-2 1,680 MB CD-ROM (PUN 2, LUN 0): NEC MultiSpin 3Xi (CDR 500) ANSI SCSI-2 Video System: Adapter: ATi Pro Turbo (Mach 64) VL-Bus VRAM: 2 MB Please help! Thanks! Hsiao-Min Wu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 01:33:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA05868 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:33:51 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA05862 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:33:42 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id KAA25724 ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:33:41 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06743; Thu, 23 Mar 95 10:33:24 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503230933.AA06743@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:33:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, hasty@star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230609.WAA00166@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 22, 95 10:09:01 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#429 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 572 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's the metadata I/O that we're talking about. ...and yes, the process > will definately see it if the operation involves lots of file creates. It is > inherently unsafe to do metadata I/O asynchronously, which is why the manual > page says: Yeah, we all know that but ext2fs is doing it for ages now and they don't have that much more problem with it... It would be great if it worked (for the news spool for example). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #1: Mon Mar 6 23:55:18 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 01:34:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA05901 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:34:54 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA05893 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:34:49 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA12284; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:33:39 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503230933.BAA12284@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ata/ide sector translation modes c/h/s vs. LBA? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:33:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230647.QAA04580@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 23, 95 04:47:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1533 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> Why does the ATA standard make such a big stink about LBA mode?? > > >Because it is *new*, and allows you to use drives >536870912 bytes. > > No. Even the old ATA standard specifies addressing drives with > 65535(+1?) * 16 * 255 sectors (almost 128GB). LBA only increases > the limit to 65536 * 16 * 256. See > "Yet Another ATA-2/Fast-ATA/EIDE FAQ" in > comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage. Yes, your right, the ATA spec does increase it to 16 bits for cylinder, it's DOS that still has lots of braindamage in this area (fdisk). > >It greatly simplifies the calculation for this. Basically a drive > ^slightly Hummm... conversion of DOS block offset to cyl/head/sector with non-LBA requires division and mod operators. With LBA it is simple OR's and SHIFTS. Also you don't have to do all the funky bit stuff for the C/H/S format, or do you still have to do that, I thougt not. > >in LBA mode has 256 sectors, 16 heads and upto 1024 cylinders. > > Up to 65536 or 65536 cylinders. Oops, in previous mail I said that LBA > addresses are 24 bits. They are actually 28 bits (4 more in the old > head bits). The bits are rearranged (the head bits become bits 24-27 > of the LBA, and the braindamaged 1-based sector numbers are gone), so > it is only a heuristic to think of the translation as giving a 256S * 16H > geometry. Humm... more than SCSI (24) :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 01:43:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA06115 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:43:40 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA06100 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 01:43:16 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA09637; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:40:49 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:40:49 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503230940.TAA09637@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: fast string inline routines (asm) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In the djgpp list a discussion came up recently about inlining (asm) >fast memcpy/memmove/strcpy and such stuff and someone pointed out that >Linux had these - I cite from Mat Hostetter: >"Subject: Re: A quick way to copy n bytes >NOTE: if people want to see some good implementations of these routines, > you should check out the inline asm versions in the Linux headers, > e.g. linux/asm/string.h. They are impressive." FreeBSD already has fairly good implementations. >I wonder if FreeBSD can have these too. I checked the Linux-1.2.0 sources: Everything is `extern inline void'. Inlining may or may not be good. It eliminates function call overhead. It increases register pressure (not good). It may deplete the cache. Almost everything uses the i*86 string functions (so do the FreeBSD versions). This is good for most values of `*' and most string functions, but not for memcpy on i486's. In practice it doesn't matter a lot which method is used if a lot of data is moved. All methods bust the L1 cache and the speed is reduced to at most that of the L2 cache. Fancy versions of memcpy would might fiddle with the cache lines, but this is too hard for a generic function with no standard for L2 caches. memmove() is poor. It only copies a byte at a time. memcpy() optimizes constant counts. This is the only special feature in the Linux string libraries. It depends on memcpy() being a macro. The Linux implementation works best for counts <= 4. Then fixed registers are not required. There should be special cases for somewhat higher counts. E.g., for a count of 8, it's surely smaller and faster to do 2 loads and stores than to load 3 fixed registers to do a "rep movsl", especially if the 3 registers have to be saved and restored. gcc-2.6.3 generates load/store instructions for copying structs up to a size of 16; after that it generates "rep movsl". Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 02:04:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA06873 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:04:27 -0800 Received: from aut.alcatel.at (dnisun.aut.alcatel.at [146.112.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA06864; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:04:21 -0800 Received: from atusc46.aut.alcatel.at ([146.112.129.213]) by aut.alcatel.at (4.1/SMI-4.1/AAA-1.29/main) id AA21111; Thu, 23 Mar 95 11:01:06 +0100 From: Marino.Ladavac@aut.alcatel.at (Marino Ladavac) Message-Id: <9503231001.AA21111@aut.alcatel.at> Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:00:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11468.795897409@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 22, 95 10:36:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1382 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan wrote: > > > Contrib on ftp.x.org. Or try NCD (Network Computing Devices). The LBX > > (Low Bandwidth X) was developed by Mike(?) @ NCD and given to the X > > people for inclusion. They wanted to modify it somewhat before the > > released it. I believe the NCD code is out there under the name XRemote. > > Uh, no. I know about LBX and it's not what I'm looking for. I'm > looking for something that SPOOFS as a server and does very simplistic > yet effective compression schemes on the datastream. It's much easier > to use across different server and client environments (neither server > nor client need ever know) and it's a lot less reading than the LBX > documentation! :-) > > > Jordan > You might take a look at the Term suite which multiplexes TCP and UDP over single serial line. There is txconn (basically a socket redirector) which listens on the socket 6000+ (client side X server sockets :) and sends stuff to the other end, to socket 6001 (you rlocal server.) Term does compression, and will work over any streamed connection (i.e. TCP, SLIP, PPP, whatever,) not only serial lines. To the X client it seems as if it were connected to localhost:X, where X is 9 by default. I have used it over 14.4 kbps line and xarchie was reasonably fast (i.e. it almost walked, if you don't mind 3 to 5 seconds for start and 1 second redraws :) /Alby From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 02:26:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA07407 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:26:50 -0800 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA07400 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 02:26:46 -0800 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA19246; Thu, 23 Mar 95 05:26:03 -0500 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA25927; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 05:26:02 -0500 Message-Id: <9503231026.AA25927@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: fast string inline routines (asm) In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:35:45 +0100. <199503230835.JAA14369@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Organization: X Consortium Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 05:26:02 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > As Christoph P. Kukulies wrote: > > > > > > In the djgpp list a discussion came up recently about inlining (asm) > > > fast memcpy/memmove/strcpy and such stuff and someone pointed out that > > > Linux had these - I cite from Mat Hostetter: > > > > Do you mean those? They are not inlined, but regular lib functions. > > > > Can you compare them against the Linux versions? > > Sorry, I don't have a Linux system in reach (for the moment, though I > have two CDs lying here but Linux installation is a horror to me :-) > The mainline of that discussion was asm inlining and I assume that > the functions in question are defines as inline asm code in the header > file (string.h). Looks like you have to a) explicitly include to get it, and b) install kernel source, as /usr/include/asm is just a symlink into the kernel source tree. The files are not GnuPoLluted, but they are copyrighted by Torvalds, as you will see. These are all the files that are in 1.1.59, from some Slackware distribution. begin 664 linux-asm.tar.gz M'XL("$I+<2\``VQI;G5X+6%S;2YT87(`[#O]5]O&LOW5_!5;)VDL(AM+!D-, MR#T.)@TMA%R@KZ_OY1X=65J#@BSY:F4,[4W_]C'YR8VUC?8VML_UX=IL$%YHW#2>!EZ'#<,0A[-XQA,W#>)(L(2G\R0"(PLF M&AMB6;B">2%W$\`QYI,XX?0T`V1NY+.O]R177K4PF)8&T^!G MR45'`HHTF7LILE_8/!+!100LA'%TP=S_A?7UKUWV>3?3VG`T.F6M M]58)'O*#'9=1SX0+&$^66M@??C MT(PU77?-9MKC4: M@^9>TF0MB<(PFWM3N$):#7J(SZ+$,';7&DI]>K+/JR@F73X"S0KKY+E@$U<`L_C4BWW.Y')+ M$0LL:&G']>)(N7@,JWN@+.A&)@WS(:)X&T1^&]>W$H=>EHH=Y<602EA[OC,) M$F#H9Y[$Q%6.&W.Y<$7P,\^82[A`SL#CM+Z6#QJ:F.YNQG$+F?%"'[ZG\77( MGK8M\]DS[M[0Z!G?9<)S10A7GSBS)O!7S$$.3S=QE!]HL!9=&1DH>#<0EKH8 MBXFZ(""\]6DZ8_9DS1HT&C=Q0D]]_=0>J$G@_V:;1DF:XZ:THOB[['^31#N31/OT;='WW[0 MS.F1I+IPHY^P:8-B7)#6D):*P,IFR`$38:,-=1'%\QB%@,B0;" M&!D:&]^FG`9LP'?>5)0RP4BZ>/4I4E:AK*<'81N>H%X;-'S`Y$(A7N4U7O[: M6I\A`T@/+1.B#FE^Q5H0\=KR"4(HP>.S%XHQ'"\YUD/QSNS%"_CS>8UX`];> MQY*I6YZ:`.XFWB7(8NH&$01_-IEC>`Z'80`/-^8+)Y&>8#ST"?*'X_T45S&\]"'2,"]*^9>`*.`ZM?N#T=2J;4.ID@Z$%)B!BD@ M(\V,8&D`.3\HA^DH\"M=YOC':^+W"8]\8&)CO90"(F%_=<[Z]^?Q/CX/(3[_ MH>7???6?U>_VL_K/[F]C_;?9L_ZN__Z,3['^&QT<#7^JE'_Z;J7Z:^T;6`'V M2@6@JI9&:%I9U@39CT!W[K)9PMM>/)W-4_!=S3".9\*!`LP1W(LCR`H`QYRK MFJF:,U*DAHH&D5/.2`B*GJ_CAN`9F6UV;UYV/T;6X&/J(YU+*3$NK`%OYG< M,G<,S")P&`N!%2"PZA$674'^`,5P'(6W%,J@X+ME8NI"?"-V!&M!5+78%"1A M=!@[DV%BEL1C%PID$"`DWA)]?#6?L13N>X4W(::F M<:QB!93?%(\NXR15<\-\E/3#/Q="/W=%'"'^)@NFLY!/>9020A,FB><7EY"+ M012$"2DN4C`$]<%B`I642;C@*8A#EK:@__[_+]M M]?N]\OZ?9?7^]O]_Q@?,\NFA/V!D!^8ULSK;M*FW8<&_3=;M#NR7@]XF0_;9 MP"<'@R/CGYRSHY.?B1$ M^R?OST]/CHX.3K-)0!0.!(UQ`[^<&7B+4/#ZI\J3Z`#U_N3\X$R&'!)+FKB1 MF/!$#%2L06^:)G$8\H19@TS@K-ONF9+FY8:IR5"4\*S;MMZ6@>T<\&9[VZ0J MH09XO]L>O=63MQGP#K'I(L"-(0@J"6<[6`$*"H`8MB[BK:%`*M MZ$T,2A&8'7A5'^^[PG-],#`+"_282?M8`A"+-"%QV:8J#^;A8L.+YU$JB4'K MG%W>"HA2JKXL8]EJ;]-(8O_9RV@U&"` MP[)WX`IF-!AH-/+=).!E5(SFA7@'S--&W%*Z`0J#9)D"]R;[('R%;>?`R%9>9>\-RT.`RE)),AS$]\-W7E/CEJ&/(? 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It is >> inherently unsafe to do metadata I/O asynchronously, which is why the manual >> page says: >Yeah, we all know that but ext2fs is doing it for ages now and they >don't have that much more problem with it... It would be great if >it worked (for the news spool for example). Why don't they have much of a problem with it? I can think of the following possible reasons: 1) with more disk updates, there is more likely to be a failure in the middle of an update. a) If the failure is in software and unrelated to the file system (e.g., a panic for a NULL pointer), then synchronous update guarantees that the file system (but not the data) can be fixed up by fsck, but fsck will find problems more often and more data will be lost. More apparent-problems are bad publicity and lost data is always annoying. b) If the failure is in hardware, then synchronous update doesn't guarantee anything. Metadata may be half written and you'll be lucky if fsck can't read the bad half. The higher reliablity of modern drives reduces the disadvantage of synchronous update here. c) If the failure is in software and is related to the file system, then synchronous update doesn't guarantee anything. Metadata may be scrambled and fsck will normally be able to read it and become confused :-]. 2) ext2fs may be more robust. It's never assumed synchronous updates. 3) ext2fsck may be better than fsck. 4) writing the disk more may wear it out faster. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 03:55:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA08840 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 03:55:45 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA08832 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 03:55:38 -0800 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA13542 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 03:55:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199503231155.DAA13542@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA044969683; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 06:54:43 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 06:54:43 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199503231045.UAA11233@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 23, 95 08:45:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2169 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Yeah, we all know that but ext2fs is doing it for ages now and they > >don't have that much more problem with it... It would be great if > >it worked (for the news spool for example). > > Why don't they have much of a problem with it? I can think of the following > possible reasons: > > 1) with more disk updates, there is more likely to be a failure in the > middle of an update. > a) If the failure is in software and unrelated to the file system > (e.g., a panic for a NULL pointer), then synchronous update > guarantees that the file system (but not the data) can be fixed up > by fsck, but fsck will find problems more often and more data will > be lost. More apparent-problems are bad publicity and lost data > is always annoying. > b) If the failure is in hardware, then synchronous update > doesn't guarantee anything. Metadata may be half written and > you'll be lucky if fsck can't read the bad half. The higher > reliablity of modern drives reduces the disadvantage of > synchronous update here. > c) If the failure is in software and is related to the file system, > then synchronous update doesn't guarantee anything. Metadata > may be scrambled and fsck will normally be able to read it and > become confused :-]. > 2) ext2fs may be more robust. It's never assumed synchronous updates. > 3) ext2fsck may be better than fsck. > 4) writing the disk more may wear it out faster. > > Bruce > One question is -- should we just port ext2fs? (There's already a lot of people experimenting with both FreeBSD and Linux. There's already a read-only port of FFS to Linux. One drawback is the need to make ALL the BSD utilities (dump, restore, etc.) play nice with ext2fs. (One reason I went to BSD from Linux was the lack of dump/restore). Cpio and tar do not make a backup scheme. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2369 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 04:22:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA09285 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 04:22:27 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA09279 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 04:22:27 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA16932 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 04:21:42 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA13465; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:16:31 +1000 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:16:31 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503231216.WAA13465@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >One question is -- should we just port ext2fs? (There's already a lot of >people experimenting with both FreeBSD and Linux. There's already a >read-only port of FFS to Linux. I think the author is porting it. >One drawback is the need to make ALL the BSD utilities (dump, restore, etc.) >play nice with ext2fs. (One reason I went to BSD from Linux was the lack >of dump/restore). >Cpio and tar do not make a backup scheme. I use tar. I don't want to use dump because it only runs under one O/S that I have. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 04:38:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA09456 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 04:38:26 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA09450 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 04:38:26 -0800 Received: from orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.65]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA18984 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 04:37:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199503231237.EAA18984@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by orion.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA014731437; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:17:17 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Trenton Computer Festival To: FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 20:17:16 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 833 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone going to TCF this year... I believe it's the weekend of April 21, 22, and 23rd. Perhaps we can pull some kind of BOF meeting in a diner. (For those unaware of TCF -- it's probably the East Coast's biggest Computer Fair/Flea Market/Conference (of Amateur Computer types) -- and it's one of the oldest... started back in the Z80 days.) You might see Sun Workstations, PDP8's and Pentiums sold in the parking lot in the same row. I almost bought a Vax 11/725 there a couple of years ago. We're probably outnumbered by Linux guys there, though. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2369 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 05:34:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA10141 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 05:34:30 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA10135 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 05:34:25 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA05914 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:31:48 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA13211; 23 Mar 95 07:21:24 CST (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA13208; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:21:23 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503231321.HAA13208@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: ata/ide sector translation modes c/h/s vs. LBA? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:21:23 -0600 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230933.BAA12284@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 23, 95 01:33:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 276 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> Why does the ATA standard make such a big stink about LBA mode?? I thought it was because by making a big stink they can maybe get the DOS weenies to quit using bogus CHS when they write BIOSes and operating systems. LBA is a marketing tool more than anything else. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 06:40:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA11027 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 06:40:08 -0800 Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA11014 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 06:39:58 -0800 Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA29729; Thu, 23 Mar 95 15:39:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 15:39:29 +0100 From: jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Message-Id: <9503231439.AA29729@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: compressed kernels X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have tried to build compressed kernels ala Linux (yes, I need more space on my fixit floppy!). All I got is a crash when booting the compressed kernel. This is not surprising if you look at the start code I used :-) .text start: call _kunzip jmp _new_kernel There is no problem if I link whith 'main(){kunzip();}' and run as a 'normal' program instead of the .S code above, so I conclude that I have to use a more complex start code! Unfortunately, writing this is far beyond my capabilities. All my knowledge in assembly programing is resumed in the 2 lines above! Any helper? Jean-Marc ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ Jean-Marc Zucconi | jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr Observatoire de Besancon | F 25010 Besancon cedex | PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 08:34:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA13737 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:34:32 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA13730; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:34:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: davidg@Root.COM, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 95 20:45:18 +1000." <199503231045.UAA11233@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:34:31 -0800 Message-ID: <13728.795976471@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 4) writing the disk more may wear it out faster. Now there's one for the books! :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 08:50:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA14476 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:50:39 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA14467 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 08:50:38 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18596; Thu, 23 Mar 95 09:42:55 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503231642.AA18596@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 9:42:54 MST Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, hasty@star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230609.WAA00166@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 22, 95 10:09:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> It should do what the manual page says it does, which is to force > >> all I/O to the filesystem to be done asynchronously. > > > >Um, all I/O to the file system is already done asynchronously. It's got > >internal sequencing of metadata but that shouldn't be visible to the > >process. > > It's the metadata I/O that we're talking about. ...and yes, the process > will definately see it if the operation involves lots of file creates. It is > inherently unsafe to do metadata I/O asynchronously, which is why the manual > page says: > > async All I/O to the file system should be done asynchronously. > This is a dangerous flag to set, and should not be used > unless you are prepared to recreate the file system > should your system crash. Oh, >*DUH*<. I've been thinking "bg". Which, Of Course, makes no sense on local disks. The use of "async" in this context doesn't "make no sense on local disks", it just "makes no sense period". The only exception to that is a tmpfs, which is clean on each boot anyway and might as well be remkfs'ed as anything else to get it clean. If you want to use async, you have to ensure that the writes occur in queue order rather than implementing elevator seeking; this almost universally implies log structuring the file system so that linear queue order writing is the optimal way to do writing. >From my examination of the LFS code, the main thing missing is lock state coherency, which can be fixed with ease by documenting lock state in and out in the comments for each routine, printing a call graph, and then manually checking lock states using only the headers. Hacking the code for single entry/single exit would help with this. The second thing missing is a per FS queue, which is the main thing causing it to be able to mount only a single FS before it gets confused. I don't think "async" should be an option, and if it must stay, at least say "DANGER! MOUNTING /dev/whazzit ASYNC!". Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:14:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA14995 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:14:13 -0800 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14986 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:14:11 -0800 From: MarloweN@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA293538806; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:13:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:13:26 -0500 Message-Id: <950323121312_58650390@aol.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD Installation - Con't Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Progress, our most important product! No more =91'Panic: cannot mount ro= ot'=91 messages. Now the install process gets to the selection of type of CD fo= r = loading the system. Since I have just installed a Sony CDU55S SCSI drive= I select SCSI. And the little box says: =91' --ERROR!-- Unable to mount /dev/cd0a on /mnt'=91 And the AltF2 screen says: umount 2286 blocks progress ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:15:12 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA09891; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:14:58 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503231714.JAA09891@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: [Q] best way to submit patches/changes? To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:14:58 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230610.WAA04304@ix2.ix.netcom.com> from "Paul Vinciguerra" at Mar 22, 95 10:10:43 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 344 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Subject line says it all. What is the preferred method for making > contributions? And to whom are they made?? to Incoming? Send them to hackers@freebsd.org -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:21:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15298 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:21:29 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15292 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:21:29 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA09941; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:21:02 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503231721.JAA09941@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: fast string inline routines (asm) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:21:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503230756.IAA14022@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Mar 23, 95 08:56:34 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 709 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In the djgpp list a discussion came up recently about inlining (asm) > fast memcpy/memmove/strcpy and such stuff and someone pointed out that > Linux had these - I cite from Mat Hostetter: > > "Subject: Re: A quick way to copy n bytes > > NOTE: if people want to see some good implementations of these routines, > you should check out the inline asm versions in the Linux headers, > e.g. linux/asm/string.h. They are impressive." > > I wonder if FreeBSD can have these too. If you come up with a patch... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:22:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15418 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:22:56 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15205 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:19:43 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA21956 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:20:54 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:20:54 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503222320.AAA21956@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) > in the meanwhile st(1 or 8) is too useful to not have available. Agreed ! It's essential for anyone like me using a Tandberg 525M drive that defaults to writing variable size blocks, until told st blocksize 512 Julian Stacey (not Julian Elischer, but Julian :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:24:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15509 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:24:16 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15364 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:22:26 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA21114; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:00:19 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 00:00:19 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503222300.AAA21114@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap Cc: dp@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My network connectivity is BAD right > now and sup'ing my system to -current is out of the question. My net. con. is pretty lousy too now, but fortunately CTM is much easier than sup (& cheaper) so I've gone from siup to ctm. I commend CTM to you. (Thanks to Poul et al.) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:28:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15630 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:28:15 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15536 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:25:04 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA20895; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:53:27 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:53:27 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503222253.XAA20895@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > does anyone have any disk-cruising/filesystem-fixing programs perhaps: archie fsdb ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:31:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15709 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:31:25 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15670 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:29:41 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA08316; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:03:18 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 23:03:18 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503212203.XAA08316@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: dcasba@rain.org, julian@tfs.com Subject: Re: Reference Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is it just me or does anyone else find this sort of reply offensive? It took me a while to realise that person knew _SO_ little that he did not even know to try for a `man' command :-( I suggest we adopt (voluntary) minimum enrollment criteria, to be included in the greeting message sent by Majordomo, to be received by each new person when they enroll, here's a draft: ] This mail list is for users & developers off FreeBSD, & assumes you already ] have working familiarity with at least one of: ] FreeBSD, NetBSD, BSDI, Unix, Linux, HP-UX, SCO-UX etc. ] Please do NOT burden our busy mail lists with `Beginners Unix' questions. ] Just reading all the mail traffic on the FreeBSD lists is a significant ] burden to FreeBSD developers that they can't afford reading bandwidth for ] dumb questions, (even if one or two of our readers can afford the time to ] reply to dumb novice questions). ! ] Please go to a private tutor/friend/bookshop/library/night-classes or ] college course provider, & say to them ] "I 'm a beginner with Unix type operating systems, ] which book do you recomend I study ?" ] The purpose of this list is NOT to teach beginners Unix, please now ] - run the mail command again, with `unsubscribe' this time ] instead of `subscribe', ] - OR, maintain a `lurker' profile, & read but don't post dumb questions.] Please note we do not insult your intelligence, but cannot afford the ] wasted bandwidth that supporting unskilled novices would require. I suggest a core team member (Jordan maybe ?) put something like the above in the Majordomo "you have been enrolled" message. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:31:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15721 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:31:54 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15696 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:31:08 -0800 Received: (from jhs@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA08267 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:17:41 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:17:41 +0100 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199503212117.WAA08267@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: Poul-Henning Kamp > Everybody else: Feel free to print any information which can be useful > in some marginal case when bootverbose is set. Use "boot: /kernel -v" > to see it. Would /kernel -v be an appropriate hook to hang the "I am now about to probe [npx or whatever]" type messages that I was suggesting some while back (& that some folks felt they really didnt want to see on a normal boot) ? Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:35:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA15918 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:35:16 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA15912 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:35:11 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA20552; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:37:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:37:46 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503231737.KAA20552@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: J Wunsch "Re: X11 protocol compressor." (Mar 23, 7:55am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), yergeau@gloworm.Stanford.EDU (Dan Yergeau) Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. Cc: hasty@star-gate.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > could figure out how to "use" LBX, I'd give it a try. > > On the remote side: > > lbxproxy -display home:0.0 :23.0 > setenv DISPLAY :23.0 Has anyone had any luck with this? I've tried it from work (SunOS 4.1) to home (XFree86 3.1.1) and it works for a bit and then hangs completely when I try to run something useful like netscape. (Yes, I know I can run it locally but the BW at work is higher :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 09:43:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA16148 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:43:53 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA16140 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:43:52 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18899; Thu, 23 Mar 95 10:37:16 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503231737.AA18899@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: kern/248: scbus attach/probe printf inconsistency To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 10:37:15 MST Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503212117.WAA08267@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Mar 21, 95 10:17:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > From: Poul-Henning Kamp > > Everybody else: Feel free to print any information which can be useful > > in some marginal case when bootverbose is set. Use "boot: /kernel -v" > > to see it. > > Would /kernel -v be an appropriate hook to hang the > "I am now about to probe [npx or whatever]" > type messages that I was suggesting some while back > (& that some folks felt they really didnt want to see on a normal boot) ? Windows 95 (wouldn't you know it, old Terry, trying to argue for the best features of a non-BSD OS being included in BSD again... HERETIC!) has a *neat* installation feature. When you first install, it starts probing for hardware. It keeps an O_WRITESYNC type log of what it is about to try and find. This means for the rare case of a destructive probe, it can recover because you reboot the box and it knows not to do that again. This is, by far, the best feature of Windows 95 (though the network setup and the timezone setter are pretty cool too, especially the time zone setter). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 10:00:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA16472 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:00:06 -0800 Received: from eureka.gdl.iteso.mx (eureka.gdl.iteso.mx [148.201.1.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA16431; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:59:35 -0800 Received: (from cacho@localhost) by eureka.gdl.iteso.mx (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA27882; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:25:27 -0600 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:25:26 -0600 (CST) From: Hector Gonzalez Jaime Subject: Re: Interop To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <22417.795922707@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 22 Mar 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Later, for 2.1 when we've got a much smoother product and a couple of > xerox'd articles and glossy pictures to hand out as "product info", we > should go for as many vendors as we can talk into it (and I'm already > scheduled to be at a number of shows for this purpose). > > Jordan Is the Comdex/Fall show on your schedule? Last year they had a nice Linux booth, running nothing but XFree, and some issues of the Linux journal. I think that a FreeBSD demo (and apps. demo) would be a good proyect for that kind of show! (multimedia, games and networked video were hot last november) Hector Gonzalez From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 10:11:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA16879 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:11:24 -0800 Received: from kksys.skypoint.net (kksys.skypoint.net [199.86.32.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA16871 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:11:22 -0800 Received: from starfire.mn.org by kksys.skypoint.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0rrqKt-0004N7C; Thu, 23 Mar 95 11:06 CST Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.8/1.2.1) id LAA06141 for FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:14:43 -0600 From: John Lind Message-Id: <199503231714.LAA06141@starfire.mn.org> Subject: FYI: flexfax port To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:14:43 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 672 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some major change has occurred with SGI's fax package. The files referred to by the ports/comms/flexfax/Makefile no longer exit, nor anything named much like them. Instead of "flexfax" there is now "hylafax" which may be the same thing under a different name, since the version numbers suggest it may have undergone a change of identity at version 3. I grabbed the README but it didn't explain the mystery. I am currently grabbing ftp://sgi.com/sgi/fax/source/hylafax-v3.0beta10-tar.gz to see where that leads me. Just thought someone would want to know! John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 10:21:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA17132 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:21:03 -0800 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA17126; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:20:59 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA01690; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:30:50 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA21928 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:19:28 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA13617 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:09:43 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA00665; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:11:38 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199503221811.TAA00665@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: DEC Direct? To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 19:11:37 +1596657 (MET) Cc: mmead@goof.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11164.795830519@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 21, 95 04:01:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 623 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 1-800-DIGITAL. What's with the the micro-thin laptops, I've not hear > > of them... > > It's called the new "Ultra" and I'm getting a FAX on possibles right now.. :) > To be precise: Hinote Ultra. There also (cheaper?) Hinote (without the trailing Ultra) that are somewhat bigger. Wilko (who happens to work for DEC) _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 10:26:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA17249 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:26:47 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA17243 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 10:26:46 -0800 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13908; Thu, 23 Mar 95 12:24:09 CST From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9503231824.AA13908@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:24:08 -0600 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu In-Reply-To: <13728.795976471@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 23, 95 08:34:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4beta PL9] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 374 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 4) writing the disk more may wear it out faster. > > Now there's one for the books! :-) With an 800,000 hour MTBF, I think that enough years will have passed that even if I reduce the lifetime of the disk by 75%, I'll be too old and grey to care when it dies. (yes I am sure the original comment was to see if we were all awake :-) but it's a good point). ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 11:06:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA18542 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:06:25 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA18536 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:06:24 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: fast string inline routines (asm) To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:04:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503231721.JAA09941@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 23, 95 09:21:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 847 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk we have these for MACH 2.6 as well, (for gcc1.3.6) I'll dig them up and post them.. julian > > > In the djgpp list a discussion came up recently about inlining (asm) > > fast memcpy/memmove/strcpy and such stuff and someone pointed out that > > Linux had these - I cite from Mat Hostetter: > > > > "Subject: Re: A quick way to copy n bytes > > > > NOTE: if people want to see some good implementations of these routines, > > you should check out the inline asm versions in the Linux headers, > > e.g. linux/asm/string.h. They are impressive." > > > > I wonder if FreeBSD can have these too. > > If you come up with a patch... > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. > 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' > => 'no rude people are relevant' > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 11:47:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA19376 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:47:37 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.164.187.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19370 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 11:47:35 -0800 Received: (from jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.9) id MAA29895; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:48:18 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199503231948.MAA29895@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:48:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503231737.KAA20552@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Mar 23, 95 10:37:46 am Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1128 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: > > > > could figure out how to "use" LBX, I'd give it a try. > > > > On the remote side: > > > > lbxproxy -display home:0.0 :23.0 > > setenv DISPLAY :23.0 > > Has anyone had any luck with this? I've tried it from work (SunOS 4.1) > to home (XFree86 3.1.1) and it works for a bit and then hangs completely > when I try to run something useful like netscape. (Yes, I know I can > run it locally but the BW at work is higher :) LBX in XFree86 is from the X11R6 LBX snapshot. The spec was not complete in September, so interoperability is definitely suspicious... and it may not be fully compatible with the final spec (due to have been released this month, last time I checked). Expect LBX to be fairly robust by year end, when the final spec will have propogated in code widely... Cheers, JeremyC. -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 12:18:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19817 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:18:49 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19811; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:18:45 -0800 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id PAA15417; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:18:16 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id PAA13908; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:18:18 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:18:17 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Joe Greco cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@Root.COM, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-Reply-To: <9503231824.AA13908@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Mar 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > 4) writing the disk more may wear it out faster. > > > > Now there's one for the books! :-) > > With an 800,000 hour MTBF, I think that enough years will > have passed that even if I reduce the lifetime of the > disk by 75%, I'll be too old and grey to care when it > dies. (yes I am sure the original comment was to see if > we were all awake :-) but it's a good point). I did once see someone wipe a disk clean, by doing continuous read/write/read cycles on it. The first disk went in 3 months, then three months later the second disk (and the programmer, by the way) went. So I think it can happen, but probably not with the kinda load we see. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 12:34:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20237 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:34:37 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA20184 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:32:39 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA03667; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:03:12 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id VAA25389 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:03:11 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA19728 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:02:23 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503232002.VAA19728@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Filesystem clean flag To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:02:19 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503222253.XAA20895@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Mar 22, 95 11:53:27 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 445 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Howard Stacey wrote: > > > does anyone have any disk-cruising/filesystem-fixing programs > perhaps: archie fsdb ? > Nice hint. I really found one. Now, all i have to figure out is if it's ``contaminated'' in some way. The ftp server parent directory had been named ``bsd-source''. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 12:36:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20281 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:36:47 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA20275; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:36:45 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19727; Thu, 23 Mar 95 13:30:24 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503232030.AA19727@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Source level kernel debugger To: current@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 13:30:24 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone intereseted in a source level kernel debugger? If so, there is at least a good start (it works on SunOS 4.x) available from ftp://ftp.cs.ucla.edu/pub/ficus/johnh/kgdb-1.8.tar.gz (Yes, this is the same "Ficus" and the same "John Heidemann" that originated the BSD 4.4 file system stacking architecture). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 12:37:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20310 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:37:17 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA20302; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:37:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Hector Gonzalez Jaime cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Interop In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 95 12:25:26 CST." Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:37:15 -0800 Message-ID: <20301.795991035@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is the Comdex/Fall show on your schedule? > Last year they had a nice Linux booth, running nothing but XFree, > and some issues of the Linux journal. Yes. I hope that both myself and David Greenman will be there, manning a small "FreeBSD" booth and doing occasional stints over at the Walnut Creek booth. > I think that a FreeBSD demo (and apps. demo) would be a good > proyect for that kind of show! (multimedia, games and networked > video were hot last november) Agreed. I'll see if I can put some sort of hot demo system together - we could have one Pentium box doing all kinds of snazzy stuff, a smaller box for poking around by customers (and even doing full installs on for the skeptical) and a smaller laptop running FreeBSD just to show that you can do it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 12:38:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20348 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:38:14 -0800 Received: from LOCALHOST (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA20341; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:38:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host LOCALHOST didn't use HELO protocol To: Wilko Bulte cc: mmead@goof.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC Direct? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 95 19:11:37 +1636." <199503221811.TAA00665@yedi.iaf.nl> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:38:12 -0800 Message-ID: <20339.795991092@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > 1-800-DIGITAL. What's with the the micro-thin laptops, I've not hear > > > of them... > > > > It's called the new "Ultra" and I'm getting a FAX on possibles right now.. :) > > > > To be precise: Hinote Ultra. There also (cheaper?) Hinote (without the > trailing Ultra) that are somewhat bigger. > > Wilko (who happens to work for DEC) Can you get me a better price? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 13:36:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21668 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:36:47 -0800 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21655 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:36:41 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01817 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:46:46 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25743 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:35:22 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA15613 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:27:29 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA01152 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:49:23 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199503231849.TAA01152@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: obscure NMI To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:49:22 +1596657 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 739 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any suggestions on: NMI port 61 a0, port 70 7f, port 461 10 ? This happens just after the npx probe message is displayed on _every_ boot (1.1.5). The system board is a Philips P3464 EISA, with 20Mb mem. If have the impression(..) that this is a specific interaction of FreeBSD with this particular mainboard. I do have _all_ the docs of the board (including things like schematics etc) so I can do some low level sniffing if needed. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 13:36:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21673 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:36:48 -0800 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21657 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 13:36:43 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01814 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:46:43 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25729 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:35:15 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA15606 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:27:27 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA01138 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:45:34 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199503231845.TAA01138@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: new newsgroups To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:45:33 +1596657 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 522 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please bear with me: which comp.os.*bsd* newsgroups should be present now? I lost the email message somehow, and it looks like my news provider doesnot have the groups yet. So, it might be some ass kicking is in order. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 14:10:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23077 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:10:50 -0800 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23063 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:10:46 -0800 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA15741; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:08:35 -0600 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 Mar 95 16:09 CST Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 Mar 95 16:08 CST Message-Id: From: fredriks@mcs.com (Lars Fredriksen) Subject: Re: SMP work To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:08:25 -0600 (CST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503201735.AA02256@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 20, 95 10:35:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 619 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec > and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number > for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I > reported it to their FTP person. > I thought so too, until I printed the file on a HP Laser Printer! Ghostscript views it fine too, but QMS, NCR and a few other printers I tried barfed on it. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lars Fredriksen fredriks@mcs.com (home) lars@fredriks.pr.mcs.net (home-home) fredriks@asiago.cs.wisc.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 14:32:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23925 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:32:47 -0800 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23917 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:32:44 -0800 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA16441; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:31:34 -0600 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 Mar 95 16:31 CST Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 23 Mar 95 16:30 CST Message-Id: From: fredriks@mcs.com (Lars Fredriksen) Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:30:46 -0600 (CST) Cc: julian@tfs.com, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: <199503210750.XAA29958@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 20, 95 11:50:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 658 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > > > Could you try to use "tcopy /dev/rmt0" to verify the blocksize ? > > > > if we distributed the 'st' utility like we should, > > WHAT ?? I thought that had gone in LONG time ago ??? > > Ok, > unless somebody wants to merge this into "mt", really fast, I'm > going to commit Julians code Did mt change a lot from 4.3 to 4.4? If not st is already a merged mt. I created it by copying mt.c to st.c and putting in the extra stuff. Lars -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lars Fredriksen fredriks@mcs.com (home) lars@fredriks.pr.mcs.net (home-home) fredriks@asiago.cs.wisc.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 14:47:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA24481 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:47:14 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA24463 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 14:47:10 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20330; Thu, 23 Mar 95 15:40:24 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503232240.AA20330@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: SMP work To: fredriks@mcs.com (Lars Fredriksen) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 95 15:40:23 MST Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Lars Fredriksen" at Mar 23, 95 04:08:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec > > and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number > > for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I > > reported it to their FTP person. > > I thought so too, until I printed the file on a HP Laser Printer! > > Ghostscript views it fine too, but QMS, NCR and a few other printers > I tried barfed on it. If you are keeping a list, add HP LaserJet III Postscript+. You'd think they could compare for "%!" like everyone else. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 15:03:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25045 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:03:33 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA25039 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:03:33 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: Problems with 2940 and 950210snap To: fredriks@mcs.com (Lars Fredriksen) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:01:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: phk@ref.tfs.com, julian@tfs.com, fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, moto@CS.cmu.edu, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu In-Reply-To: from "Lars Fredriksen" at Mar 23, 95 04:30:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1062 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > st has changed quite a bit since then it may not quite handle status info for other drives correctly any more.. it MIGHT, but then again it may not.. the actual work of merging will not be hard. just the work of checking the logic will be 90% of it.. I'm sure it will correctly do rewinds etc. for non scsi drives, it's just the status stuff. julian > Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > > > > > > Could you try to use "tcopy /dev/rmt0" to verify the blocksize ? > > > > > > if we distributed the 'st' utility like we should, > > > > WHAT ?? I thought that had gone in LONG time ago ??? > > > > Ok, > > unless somebody wants to merge this into "mt", really fast, I'm > > going to commit Julians code > > Did mt change a lot from 4.3 to 4.4? If not st is already a merged mt. > I created it by copying mt.c to st.c and putting in the extra stuff. > Lars > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Lars Fredriksen fredriks@mcs.com (home) > lars@fredriks.pr.mcs.net (home-home) > fredriks@asiago.cs.wisc.edu > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 15:25:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25524 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:25:38 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA25518 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:25:35 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA02206; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:24:56 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503232324.PAA02206@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SMP work To: fredriks@mcs.com (Lars Fredriksen) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:24:55 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Lars Fredriksen" at Mar 23, 95 04:08:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 847 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > > > I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec > > and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number > > for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I > > reported it to their FTP person. > > > > I thought so too, until I printed the file on a HP Laser Printer! > > Ghostscript views it fine too, but QMS, NCR and a few other printers > I tried barfed on it. Probably since it is is PS-Adobe-3.0 instead of 2.0: ^[%-12345X@PJL ENTER LANGUAGE = PostScript^M ^D%!PS-Adobe-3.0^M Also note the ^[ and ^D on the first two lines, that probably confuses the h*ll out of a QMS or NCR printer. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 16:34:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA29869 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:34:53 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29863 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:34:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06609; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:34:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199503240034.QAA06609@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: fredriks@mcs.com (Lars Fredriksen), terry@cs.weber.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SMP work In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 1995 15:24:55 PST." <199503232324.PAA02206@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:34:06 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Terry Lambert writes: >> > >> > >> > I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec >> > and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number >> > for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I >> > reported it to their FTP person. >> > >> >> I thought so too, until I printed the file on a HP Laser Printer! >> >> Ghostscript views it fine too, but QMS, NCR and a few other printers >> I tried barfed on it. > >Probably since it is is PS-Adobe-3.0 instead of 2.0: >^[%-12345X@PJL ENTER LANGUAGE = PostScript^M >^D%!PS-Adobe-3.0^M > >Also note the ^[ and ^D on the first two lines, that probably confuses >the h*ll out of a QMS or NCR printer. I wouldn't expect many non-HP printers to understand HP's Printer Job Language. Perhaps I should commit this addition to /etc/magic: # # magic.pjl: HP Printer Job Language (PJL) # 0 string ^[%-12345X HP PJL (printer job language) commands 0 string @PJL HP PJL (printer job language) commands > > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 16:46:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01643 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:46:24 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA01631 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:46:21 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA02493; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:45:54 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503240045.QAA02493@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SMP work To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:45:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503240034.QAA06609@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Mar 23, 95 04:34:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1492 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> > >> Terry Lambert writes: > >> > > >> > > >> > I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec > >> > and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number > >> > for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I > >> > reported it to their FTP person. > >> > > >> > >> I thought so too, until I printed the file on a HP Laser Printer! > >> > >> Ghostscript views it fine too, but QMS, NCR and a few other printers > >> I tried barfed on it. > > > >Probably since it is is PS-Adobe-3.0 instead of 2.0: > >^[%-12345X@PJL ENTER LANGUAGE = PostScript^M > >^D%!PS-Adobe-3.0^M > > > >Also note the ^[ and ^D on the first two lines, that probably confuses > >the h*ll out of a QMS or NCR printer. > > I wouldn't expect many non-HP printers to understand HP's Printer Job > Language. Perhaps I should commit this addition to /etc/magic: > > # > # magic.pjl: HP Printer Job Language (PJL) > # > 0 string ^[%-12345X HP PJL (printer job language) commands > 0 string @PJL HP PJL (printer job language) commands Is that what the funny stuff is, shows how much I deal with printers :-). YES PLEASE!!! I've never seen a file start @PJL, but you deal with this more than I do. Also shouldn't the first one be ``^[%-12345X@PJL''. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 16:59:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA02738 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:59:29 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA02728 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:59:17 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA03661; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:03:10 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id VAA25386 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:03:09 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA19702 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:57:37 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503231957.UAA19702@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: X11 protocol compressor. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:57:36 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503231737.KAA20552@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Mar 23, 95 10:37:46 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 378 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nate Williams wrote: > > > lbxproxy -display home:0.0 :23.0 > > setenv DISPLAY :23.0 > > Has anyone had any luck with this? Last time i tried it it crashed my X server. :-/ (...or even the machine, i cannot remember exactly) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 17:09:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA02972 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:09:30 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02966 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:09:29 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA11650; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:08:52 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503240108.RAA11650@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SMP work To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:08:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, fredriks@mcs.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503240034.QAA06609@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Mar 23, 95 04:34:06 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 803 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Probably since it is is PS-Adobe-3.0 instead of 2.0: > >^[%-12345X@PJL ENTER LANGUAGE = PostScript^M > >^D%!PS-Adobe-3.0^M > > > >Also note the ^[ and ^D on the first two lines, that probably confuses > >the h*ll out of a QMS or NCR printer. > > I wouldn't expect many non-HP printers to understand HP's Printer Job > Language. Perhaps I should commit this addition to /etc/magic: > > # > # magic.pjl: HP Printer Job Language (PJL) > # > 0 string ^[%-12345X HP PJL (printer job language) commands > 0 string @PJL HP PJL (printer job language) commands > Please do. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 17:12:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03090 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:12:32 -0800 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03084 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:12:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA06794; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:11:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199503240111.RAA06794@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SMP work In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 1995 16:45:54 PST." <199503240045.QAA02493@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 17:11:32 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> >> >> >> Terry Lambert writes: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I have found this file to be corrupt. Intel will mail you the spec >> >> > and it will only take a couple of days if you call their 800 number >> >> > for their doc department. Or they may have fixed the file once I >> >> > reported it to their FTP person. >> >> > >> >> >> >> I thought so too, until I printed the file on a HP Laser Printer! >> >> >> >> Ghostscript views it fine too, but QMS, NCR and a few other printers >> >> I tried barfed on it. >> > >> >Probably since it is is PS-Adobe-3.0 instead of 2.0: >> >^[%-12345X@PJL ENTER LANGUAGE = PostScript^M >> >^D%!PS-Adobe-3.0^M >> > >> >Also note the ^[ and ^D on the first two lines, that probably confuses >> >the h*ll out of a QMS or NCR printer. >> >> I wouldn't expect many non-HP printers to understand HP's Printer Job >> Language. Perhaps I should commit this addition to /etc/magic: >> >> # >> # magic.pjl: HP Printer Job Language (PJL) >> # >> 0 string ^[%-12345X HP PJL (printer job language) comman >ds >> 0 string @PJL HP PJL (printer job language) comman >ds > >Is that what the funny stuff is, shows how much I deal with printers :-). > >YES PLEASE!!! > >I've never seen a file start @PJL, but you deal with this more than >I do. Also shouldn't the first one be ``^[%-12345X@PJL''. That might be better since it would be odd for a job to have the PJL escape sequence and not contain at least one PJL command. According to my 4SIMx manual, there isn't a cr/lf pair after the escape, so it should be safe to include the "@PJL". > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 18:37:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA07423 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 18:37:37 -0800 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA07417 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 18:37:29 -0800 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id LAA12724; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:37:00 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id LAA08656; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:36:59 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA09183; Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:36:58 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rrzM5-0009GMC; Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:44 JST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:32:25 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9503240232.AA15217@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? References: <22765.795853220@freefall.cdrom.com> <199503221041.CAA13014@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * Well, this is for sysinstall. If it's possible to bring those dialogs > * up in Japanese, we should do so! Great. > * XPG3 message catalog project he had going.. I'm not sure if they're > * sufficient for non-european languages, but it's a start. For sysinstall-type of applications, combination of XPG3 message catalog and argument reordering extension to printf (i.e., "%n$" directive) does an excellent job, even for Japanese (or Chinese or Korea, at least.) >The fonts are huge, like k14.pcf.Z (the smallest possible >font) is 264KB.... k14 includes approx. 6K kanji and 0.5K of other letters/symbols. For sysinstall, or any other "display only" utilities, a small subset of them is enough. I guess we need just 1K kanji or so. You cannot, however, let users type in his/her name with the subset. # Hence, Microsoft had to put all 6K kanji in their Japanese windows # floppis. Remember it has "Licensee registeration dialog", which pops # up on installation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 18:59:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA08093 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 18:59:23 -0800 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA08028 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 18:59:17 -0800 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id LAA15070; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:58:41 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id LAA12012; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:58:40 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA10146; Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:58:40 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rrzh5-0009HVC; Fri, 24 Mar 95 12:05 JST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:54:07 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9503240254.AA15225@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? References: <199503220419.UAA19060@freefall.cdrom.com> <9503221831.AA11164@cs.weber.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The first third party LKM was a console driver called "World 21". It >was an ISO 2022 driver based on (I think) JIS 212 (might have been the >older 208). JIS X 212 is a supplement to X 208. Sole use of X 212 doesn't make sense. "World 21" must support X 208 only or both X 208 and X 212. Anyway, it sounds like useful for Japanese users. >XPG/3 is insufficient for use for large glyph set languages (most >notably the CJK languages -- Chinese, Japanese, Korean). You would >have to go to XPG/4. If you want to write serious text-based application, Yes. You absolutely need XPG4 as a minimum functionality. But, for sysinstall, (we are discussing on it, right?) most of the "localization" work is just altering messaes. XPG3 is fine for the purpose. >The best thing that came out of that >was string/argument order mapping for printf to allow sentence >structure changes when priniting 2 or more strings/values. I agree. >I have some internationalization work I have been experimenting with >off an on, but it involves highly experimental (and now outdated) >changes to the file system, the console driver, and many pieces of >the system call interfaces. It is definitely not ready for prime >time. Hmm. Your work must have addressed a "complete" internationalizaion... For sysinstall, I think, we just need: (1) ways of altering messages and (2) ways to display non-ASCII characters on the screen. >It also has the little problem of needing 1280x1024 to get >an 80x25 standard font cell screen. It is common among Japanese PC that a Kanji occupies two columns on a screen. IBM/Microsoft DOS/V, which is a Japanese version of DOS, runs with 640x480 standard VGA screen, allowing 40x25 Kanji capacity. # I agree that the console driver must implement complicated control # over cell management in this case. DOS/V console driver (so-called # JDISP) did it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 19:47:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA10249 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:47:48 -0800 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA10221 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:46:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA00423; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:35:53 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199503241335.IAA00423@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:35:53 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Mar 23, 95 03:18:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2391 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 23 Mar 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > 4) writing the disk more may wear it out faster. > > > > > > Now there's one for the books! :-) > > > > With an 800,000 hour MTBF, I think that enough years will > > have passed that even if I reduce the lifetime of the > > disk by 75%, I'll be too old and grey to care when it > > dies. (yes I am sure the original comment was to see if > > we were all awake :-) but it's a good point). > > I did once see someone wipe a disk clean, by doing continuous > read/write/read cycles on it. The first disk went in 3 months, then > three months later the second disk (and the programmer, by the way) > went. So I think it can happen, but probably not with the kinda load we > see. Some information for everybody who thinks that MTBF is equal to the lifetime: Take an experiment. We take a number of devices and begin to exploit it. We remember when every unit dies until all of them are dead. Then we plot a graph. This graph will be like this (plotted by *s): % dead ^ 100% | * 100%died | * | * | * / --|----------------------------------------* B _| | * | | | * | \ --|------* | | * | | | * | A | | * | _______________|_______________ | |* |/ \| 0 +------+---------------------------------+-----------------> | time of work | time time of lifetime manufacturer's tests and free repair MTBF is measured at time of work when the curve is near linear by dividing A by B: MTBF=A/B Therefore MTBF 800,000 hours doesn't means that HDU will work 800,000 hours before a failure, it only means that if lifetime is near 10,000 hours then near 1/80 of all sold HDUs will die before reaching the lifetime. I'm sorry if I had translated some terms to english wrong. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 20:59:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA13374 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:59:36 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA13366 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:59:33 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA02981; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:58:09 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503240458.UAA02981@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: MTBF and what it means (Was: Re: Why IDE is bad) To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 20:58:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503241335.IAA00423@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Mar 24, 95 08:35:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1574 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Retitled MTBF and what it means] > > > On Thu, 23 Mar 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > > > 4) writing the disk more may wear it out faster. > > > > > > > > Now there's one for the books! :-) > > > > > > With an 800,000 hour MTBF, I think that enough years will > > > have passed that even if I reduce the lifetime of the > > > disk by 75%, I'll be too old and grey to care when it > > > dies. (yes I am sure the original comment was to see if > > > we were all awake :-) but it's a good point). > > > > I did once see someone wipe a disk clean, by doing continuous > > read/write/read cycles on it. The first disk went in 3 months, then > > three months later the second disk (and the programmer, by the way) > > went. So I think it can happen, but probably not with the kinda load we > > see. > > Some information for everybody who thinks that MTBF is equal to the lifetime: [Good sample of how MTBF is arrived out deleted] > Therefore MTBF 800,000 hours doesn't means that HDU will work 800,000 hours > before a failure, it only means that if lifetime is near 10,000 hours then > near 1/80 of all sold HDUs will die before reaching the lifetime. And now you know why 800,000 Hour (22 years) MTBF disk drives come with a 5 year (43,800 hours) warranty. > I'm sorry if I had translated some terms to english wrong. Looked pretty good to me. So many people miss understand what all this MTBF is. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 21:29:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA15199 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:29:40 -0800 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15162 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:29:07 -0800 Received: from uucp3.UU.NET by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyikb26094; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:28:10 -0500 Received: from uanet.UUCP by uucp3.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:28:10 -0500 Received: by crocodil.monolit.kiev.ua; Fri, 24 Mar 95 07:16:13 +0200 Received: by farm.cs.kiev.ua; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 03:53:12 +0300 To: christos@ee.cornell.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <199501091812.UAA01375@ghostwheel2.cs.kiev.ua> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 03:53:12 +0300 (UKR) From: "Dmitry S. Kohmanyuk" X-Class: Fast Organization: Animals Paradise Farm Reply-To: dk+@ua.net Subject: magic file entries: JAM archive volume Lines: 27 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk JAM is (shareware) disk compressor (similar to Stacker). It is available from garbo.uwasa.fi as /pc/arcers/jam125sw.zip. *** /etc/magic Tue Nov 22 14:21:12 1994 --- magic.jam Wed Jan 4 19:18:42 1995 *************** *** 142,147 **** --- 142,154 ---- 0 byte 26 'arc' archive >1 byte 0 (empty) >1 byte 1 (old format) + # JAM Archive volume format, by Dmitry.Kohmanyuk@UA.net + 0 string \351,\001JAM\ JAM archive, + >7 string >\0 version %.4s + >0x26 byte =0x27 - + >>0x2b string >\0 label %.11s, + >>0x27 lelong x serial %08x, + >>0x36 string >\0 fstype %.8s # A collection of various "ar" and "cpio" archive formats. # "Tar" archives are handled in the C code. 0 short 070707 cpio archive -- A(bort), R(etry), I(nstall FreeBSD)? _ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 21:47:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA15578 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:47:20 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15572 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:47:17 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA03113; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:46:47 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503240546.VAA03113@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: obscure NMI To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:46:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503231849.TAA01152@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Mar 23, 95 07:49:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 827 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Any suggestions on: > NMI port 61 a0, port 70 7f, port 461 10 > ? > > This happens just after the npx probe message is displayed on _every_ > boot (1.1.5). The system board is a Philips P3464 EISA, with 20Mb mem. > If have the impression(..) that this is a specific interaction of FreeBSD > with this particular mainboard. I do have _all_ the docs of the board > (including things like schematics etc) so I can do some low level sniffing > if needed. Look through those great docs and see if it tells you a very good decoding of what I/O ports 0x61, 0x70 and 0x461 are for that board. Since port 0x61 0x80 is set it looks to be a parity error on the main board. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 21:54:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA15899 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:54:22 -0800 Received: from ix3.ix.netcom.com ([199.182.120.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA15893 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:54:22 -0800 Received: from by ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.11/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id VAA08032; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:51:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:51:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199503240551.VAA08032@ix3.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: wdcommand() revisited .. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk wdcommand ends as follows: outb(wdc + wd_command, command); return (0); } ATA states that we first have to check the status register to ensure command is ok. outb(wdc + wd_command, command); if ((inb(wdc +wd_status) & WDCS_ERR) != 0) return (-1) /* or whatever error correction */ return (0); } From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 22:45:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA18357 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:45:43 -0800 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA18318 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:45:06 -0800 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA00397 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:44:46 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199503240644.IAA00397@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: ctm problem? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:44:45 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1898 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, The postmaster on my site forward this piece of ctm to me. It looks like some of it became lost. I think it should be cvs-cur.0481.gz because I haven't received that yet. Did it happen to anybody else, or was it just my mailer that corrupted that one? Here is the first part of the message: > From postmaster Fri Mar 24 00:38:34 1995 > Received: from berg.mikom.csir.co.za (berg3.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.44]) by > zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA12557 for zibbi.mikom.csir.co.ZA>; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:37:18 +0200 > From: owner-ctm-cvs-cur@freefall.cdrom.com > Received: (from uucp@localhost) by berg.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA07 > 130 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:37:18 +0200 > Received: from nuustak.csir.co.za(146.64.10.11) by berg.mikom.csir.co.za via smap (V1.3mjr) > id sma007125; Fri Mar 24 00:36:36 1995 > Received: from relay2.UU.NET by nuustak.csir.co.za with smtp > (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rrvFB-0000tfC; Fri, 24 Mar 95 00:20 SAST > Message-Id: > Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 00:20 SAST > Apparently-From: owner-ctm-cvs-cur@freefall.cdrom.com > Apparently-To: > > kE3IyldCIjsZzYNqPYDEzLCW07dJlv2ECxnuH5DGbjYsUXS+jQJs3aU8Oe2u7WXI1r > 8n4FQ03ShWxn6S0MVcgyLtII8McLQA3L8iukzpL949dHjJeMs1KueMGrvBixMmdxXhQyrghNqyLN > qv00E/IjQNMAYH7nspBj9mwBxZeI3xtl65IiLVcLfk2vlxxew39ZlACKC1HIsmRJXjDJy2t2UaQr > jfrflr/v4FggU2Pq+Fuj/2iak/cvCykDr4uAjT+dMhNExgomMM6zJL1YFx1s/QCjYiliZMWreE6d > q0EDJfHFAlCnhpqvBcuvYDBIUA8Qze/ZUb5c8QzoHEAdvaDaZ94DlhT5kr1+dCbTxeKaxMazsszj > lFeyHLGTLB4h8GW+zip6C6S2gjEAQIJUzaFHRy/G7AToE7mlgJFjjbiQAEK9V/2FiSnXcOXsipDO > Ya4SgHnNcuh1Qd16hCNfAkcs8uxihKO5BkbKGNDH5WJ9AaCRfRVPna8jIPoKnkXX094rXlyyV+ui > ANjfLeHLITBpJngx/p0/vZNjyjkHxG4It0haIvS80A18OwmsEFSLI0F0G6YQpmWBEnBskHdw6wZO -- John Hay -- jhay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 22:56:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA18725 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:56:50 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA18715 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:56:47 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA12682; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:56:04 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503240656.WAA12682@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ctm problem? To: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za (John Hay) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 22:56:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503240644.IAA00397@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> from "John Hay" at Mar 24, 95 08:44:45 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 468 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The postmaster on my site forward this piece of ctm to me. It looks like some > of it became lost. I think it should be cvs-cur.0481.gz because I haven't > received that yet. Did it happen to anybody else, or was it just my mailer > that corrupted that one? I guess it's only you... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 23:08:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA19505 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 23:08:56 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA19496; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 23:08:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00287; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:16:59 GMT Message-Id: <199503232116.VAA00287@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Interop In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 1995 12:37:15 PST." <20301.795991035@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 21:16:58 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is the Comdex/Fall show on your schedule? > > Last year they had a nice Linux booth, running nothing but XFree, > > and some issues of the Linux journal. > > Yes. I hope that both myself and David Greenman will be there, > manning a small "FreeBSD" booth and doing occasional stints over > at the Walnut Creek booth. > > > I think that a FreeBSD demo (and apps. demo) would be a good > > proyect for that kind of show! (multimedia, games and networked > > video were hot last november) > > Agreed. I'll see if I can put some sort of hot demo system together - > we could have one Pentium box doing all kinds of snazzy stuff, a > smaller box for poking around by customers (and even doing full > installs on for the skeptical) and a smaller laptop running FreeBSD > just to show that you can do it. > May I suggest that run vat and vic .... From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Mar 23 23:37:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA20380 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 23:37:00 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA20374 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 23:36:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00899 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 1995 23:32:06 GMT Message-Id: <199503232332.XAA00899@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Video stuff... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 23:32:04 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Walking around Fry's in Palo Alto, Ca., saw a cool demostration of Jazz Jakarta put out by Jazz Multimedia located in Santa Clara, Ca. (408) ??? It has an mpeg option and the ability to display an NTSC signal on your VGA or just put out an NTSC siginal. The video output on the VGA looks almost as good as the display on the TV. Going to try to contact them tomorrow to see if they are Net friendly. Virtual I/O are going to be demoing their Head Mounted Display (HMD) tomorrow and Saturday at Fry's in Palo Alto. I am going to check them out :) So whats all this about just simply to let people know about cool hardware that will be neat to have supported on Freebsd. Yeah, I know is not ethernet, serial chips, or hardcore OS stuff but just a whole of fun :) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 00:54:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA22790 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:54:16 -0800 Received: from p5.spnet.com (elh.com [204.156.130.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA22782 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:54:13 -0800 Received: from localhost.spnet.com (localhost.spnet.com [127.0.0.1]) by p5.spnet.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA15572; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:52:12 GMT Message-Id: <199503240052.AAA15572@p5.spnet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: p5.spnet.com: Host localhost.spnet.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: elh@p5.spnet.com Subject: is this reasonable? Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 00:52:11 +0000 From: Ed Hudson Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk sbrk called with an arg of 1 (eg, sbrk(1)) under fbsd2.x increments the brk by 1. under SunOS4.1.3, sbrk(1) increments the brk by 8, and returns a result always double-word (8byte) aligned. fbsd malloc, /usr/lib/src/libc/stdlib/malloc.c, only aligns sbrk on its first call. i'm hazy about whether or not fbsd requires malloc to have exclusive control of a programs brk values, but in my reading of the man pages and this code, it doesn't appear to be the case. if indeed malloc is supposed to be able to co-exist with other routines calling sbrk with >0 values, then i think that either malloc has a latent bug, or sbrk is broken in its behavior. clearly confused and seeking re-education... -elh #include #include #include int main(int argc, char **argv) { char *t; int i; for (i=0; i<8; i++) { fprintf(stderr,"sbrk(1)= 0x%08x\n",sbrk(1)); } return(0); } FreeBSD output FreeBSD p5 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Mon Mar 20 17:43:36 1995 gcc version 2.6.3 sbrk(1)= 0x00002204 sbrk(1)= 0x00002205 sbrk(1)= 0x00002206 sbrk(1)= 0x00002207 sbrk(1)= 0x00002208 sbrk(1)= 0x00002209 sbrk(1)= 0x0000220a sbrk(1)= 0x0000220b sun4 (gcc), sunos4.1.3 output: SunOS maui 4.1.3 1 sun4c gcc version 2.6.0 sbrk(1)= 0x00007368 sbrk(1)= 0x00007370 sbrk(1)= 0x00007378 sbrk(1)= 0x00007380 sbrk(1)= 0x00007388 sbrk(1)= 0x00007390 sbrk(1)= 0x00007398 sbrk(1)= 0x000073a0 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 01:39:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA25914 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:39:08 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA25881 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 01:38:44 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA12296; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:35:31 +1000 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:35:31 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503240935.TAA12296@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: obscure NMI Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Any suggestions on: > NMI port 61 a0, port 70 7f, port 461 10 >? >This happens just after the npx probe message is displayed on _every_ >boot (1.1.5). The system board is a Philips P3464 EISA, with 20Mb mem. NMI was used on XTs for reporting FPU exceptions. It is even less suitable for this purpose than the IRQ13 used on AT's, but XTs have even less spare interrupts than AT's and 8086's don't even generate exceptions for illegal opcodes. The npx probe generates an FPU exception. Perhaps the P3464 generates both IRQ13 and NMI for reporting FPU exceptions. This braindamage is required for compatibility but it is usually implemented in software (by jumping from the IRQ13 handler to the NMI handler after dismissing the IRQ13). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 02:52:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA01415 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:52:17 -0800 Received: from relay-europe.ps.net (relay-europe.ps.net [160.110.96.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA01409 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:52:14 -0800 Received: by relay-europe.ps.net (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA04145; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:52:42 GMT Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:52:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Aled Morris Subject: DEC Alpha Multia To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet for $3000) Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a volunteer to do the port? Aled -- aledm@relay-europe.ps.net | tel +44 973 207987 Perot Systems Europe Ltd. | fax +44 181 476 2419 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 04:41:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA09044 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 04:41:40 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA09036 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 04:41:38 -0800 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA11340; Fri, 24 Mar 95 04:36:56 -0800 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0rs7Sp-0005OqC; Fri, 24 Mar 95 12:23 MEZ Message-Id: To: jmz%cabri.obs-besancon.fr@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (Jean-Marc Zucconi) Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr (Jean-Marc Zucconi) of Thu, 23 Mar 95 15:39:29 N. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: compressed kernels Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:23:34 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have tried to build compressed kernels ala Linux (yes, I need more > space on my fixit floppy!). All I got is a crash when booting the > compressed kernel. I ported the kernel compression code from 1.1 to 2.0 at Poul-Henning's behest and passed it on to him. It uses the kernel inflate code. I don't know what became of it, maybe Poul-Henning could provide it to you. If not, I'll look around at home and see if I still have it. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 05:10:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA11116 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 05:10:32 -0800 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA11058 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 05:09:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA01136; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:52:53 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199503242252.RAA01136@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Fix for 3C509 (ep) driver To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:52:52 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: mmead@goof.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230451.UAA02437@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 22, 95 08:51:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 7444 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have fixed another bug in 3C509 driver that prevents FBSD from network booting through other connectors than BNC. Now it will use transceiver specified in the EEPROM instead of select based on interface flags. Here is context diff for /usr/src/sys/i386/isa/* (relative to 2.0-950210-SNAP): *** 1.1 1995/03/24 12:12:08 --- if_ep.c 1995/03/24 12:38:58 *************** *** 37,42 **** --- 37,54 ---- * avega@sophia.inria.fr */ + /* + * March 24 1995 + * + * Promiscuous mode added and interrupt logic slightly changed + * to reduce the number of adapter failures. Transceiver select + * logic changed to use value from EEPROM. + * Done by: + * Serge Babkin + * Chelindbank (Chelyabinsk, Russia) + * babkin@hq.icb.chel.su + */ + #include "ep.h" #if NEP > 0 *************** *** 308,314 **** sc->ep_connectors = 0; i = inw(IS_BASE + EP_W0_CONFIG_CTRL); ! j = inw(IS_BASE + EP_W0_ADDRESS_CFG) >> 14; if (i & IS_AUI) { printf("aui"); sc->ep_connectors |= AUI; --- 320,326 ---- sc->ep_connectors = 0; i = inw(IS_BASE + EP_W0_CONFIG_CTRL); ! j = inw(IS_BASE + EP_W0_ADDRESS_CFG) >> ACF_CONNECTOR_BITS; if (i & IS_AUI) { printf("aui"); sc->ep_connectors |= AUI; *************** *** 414,420 **** { register struct ep_softc *sc = &ep_softc[unit]; register struct ifnet *ifp = &sc->arpcom.ac_if; ! int s, i; if (ifp->if_addrlist == (struct ifaddr *) 0) return; --- 426,432 ---- { register struct ep_softc *sc = &ep_softc[unit]; register struct ifnet *ifp = &sc->arpcom.ac_if; ! int s, i, j; if (ifp->if_addrlist == (struct ifaddr *) 0) return; *************** *** 451,458 **** outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK | S_5_INTS); ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_RX_FILTER | FIL_INDIVIDUAL | ! FIL_GROUP | FIL_BRDCST); /* * you can `ifconfig ep0 (bnc|aui)' to get the following --- 463,474 ---- outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK | S_5_INTS); ! if(ep_ftst(F_PROMISC)) ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_RX_FILTER | FIL_INDIVIDUAL | ! FIL_GROUP | FIL_BRDCST | FIL_ALL); ! else ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_RX_FILTER | FIL_INDIVIDUAL | ! FIL_GROUP | FIL_BRDCST); /* * you can `ifconfig ep0 (bnc|aui)' to get the following *************** *** 463,485 **** * seems you have to be careful to not plug things * into both AUI & UTP. */ ! #if defined(__NetBSD__) ! if (!(ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0) && (sc->ep_connectors & BNC)) { ! #else ! if (!(ifp->if_flags & IFF_ALTPHYS) && (sc->ep_connectors & BNC)) { ! #endif ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, START_TRANSCEIVER); ! DELAY(1000); ! } ! #if defined(__NetBSD__) ! if ((ifp->if_flags & IFF_LINK0) && (sc->ep_connectors & UTP)) { ! #else ! if ((ifp->if_flags & IFF_ALTPHYS) && (sc->ep_connectors & UTP)) { ! #endif ! GO_WINDOW(4); ! outw(BASE + EP_W4_MEDIA_TYPE, ENABLE_UTP); ! GO_WINDOW(1); ! } outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, RX_ENABLE); outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, TX_ENABLE); --- 479,518 ---- * seems you have to be careful to not plug things * into both AUI & UTP. */ ! ! /* ! * S.B. ! * ! * Now behavior was slightly changed: ! * connector specified in the EEPROM is used ! * anyway (if present on card or AUI if not). ! * ! */ ! ! j = inw(BASE + EP_W0_ADDRESS_CFG) >> ACF_CONNECTOR_BITS; ! switch(j) { ! case ACF_CONNECTOR_UTP: ! if(sc->ep_connectors & UTP) { ! GO_WINDOW(4); ! outw(BASE + EP_W4_MEDIA_TYPE, ENABLE_UTP); ! GO_WINDOW(1); ! } ! break; ! case ACF_CONNECTOR_BNC: ! if(sc->ep_connectors & BNC) { ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, START_TRANSCEIVER); ! DELAY(1000); ! } ! break; ! case ACF_CONNECTOR_AUI: ! /* nothing to do */ ! break; ! default: ! printf("ep%d: strange connector type in EEPROM: assuming AUI\n", ! unit); ! break; ! } ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, RX_ENABLE); outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, TX_ENABLE); *************** *** 643,650 **** struct ifnet *ifp = &sc->arpcom.ac_if; struct mbuf *m; ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK); /* disable all Ints */ ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, C_INTR_LATCH); /* ACK int Latch */ while ((status = inw(BASE + EP_STATUS)) & S_5_INTS) { if (status & (S_RX_COMPLETE | S_RX_EARLY)) { --- 676,683 ---- struct ifnet *ifp = &sc->arpcom.ac_if; struct mbuf *m; ! rescan: ! /* outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK); /* disable all Ints */ while ((status = inw(BASE + EP_STATUS)) & S_5_INTS) { if (status & (S_RX_COMPLETE | S_RX_EARLY)) { *************** *** 672,678 **** sc->rx_no_first, sc->rx_no_mbuf, sc->rx_bpf_disc, sc->rx_overrunf, sc->rx_overrunl, sc->tx_underrun); #else ! printf("ep%d: Status: %x\n", unit, status); #endif epinit(unit); return; --- 705,711 ---- sc->rx_no_first, sc->rx_no_mbuf, sc->rx_bpf_disc, sc->rx_overrunf, sc->rx_overrunl, sc->tx_underrun); #else ! printf("ep%d: Status: %x\n", unit, status); #endif epinit(unit); return; *************** *** 716,722 **** } /* end TX_COMPLETE */ } /* re-enable ints */ ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK | S_5_INTS); } void --- 749,760 ---- } /* end TX_COMPLETE */ } /* re-enable ints */ ! /* outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK | S_5_INTS); */ ! ! outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, C_INTR_LATCH); /* ACK int Latch */ ! ! if ((status = inw(BASE + EP_STATUS)) & S_5_INTS) ! goto rescan; } void *************** *** 1016,1021 **** --- 1054,1069 ---- } if (ifp->if_flags & IFF_UP && (ifp->if_flags & IFF_RUNNING) == 0) epinit(ifp->if_unit); + + if ( (ifp->if_flags & IFF_PROMISC) && !ep_ftst(F_PROMISC) ) { + ep_fset(F_PROMISC); + epinit(ifp->if_unit); + } + else if( !(ifp->if_flags & IFF_PROMISC) && ep_ftst(F_PROMISC) ) { + ep_frst(F_PROMISC); + epinit(ifp->if_unit); + } + break; #ifdef notdef case SIOCGHWADDR: *** 1.1 1995/03/24 12:12:08 --- if_epreg.h 1995/03/24 12:39:24 *************** *** 30,35 **** --- 30,46 ---- finger: avega@pax.inria.fr */ + /* + * March 24 1995 + * + * Promiscuous mode added and interrupt logic slightly changed + * to reduce the number of adapter failures. Transceiver select + * logic changed to use value from EEPROM. + * Done by: + * Serge Babkin + * Chelindbank (Chelyabinsk, Russia) + * babkin@hq.icb.chel.su + */ /* * Ethernet software status per interface. *************** *** 55,60 **** --- 66,72 ---- #define F_RX_FIRST 0x1 #define F_WAIT_TRAIL 0x2 #define F_RX_TRAILER 0x4 + #define F_PROMISC 0x8 #define F_ACCESS_32_BITS 0x100 *************** *** 316,321 **** --- 328,343 ---- #define S_5_INTS (S_CARD_FAILURE|S_TX_COMPLETE|\ S_TX_AVAIL|S_RX_COMPLETE|S_RX_EARLY) #define S_COMMAND_IN_PROGRESS (u_short) (0x1000) + + /* Address Config. Register. + * Window 0/Port 06 + */ + + #define ACF_CONNECTOR_BITS 14 + #define ACF_CONNECTOR_UTP 0 + #define ACF_CONNECTOR_AUI 1 + #define ACF_CONNECTOR_BNC 3 + /* * FIFO Registers. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 05:18:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA11854 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 05:18:16 -0800 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA11709 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 05:17:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA01206; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:06:05 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199503242306.SAA01206@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: Fix for 3C509 (ep) driver To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:06:04 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: mmead@goof.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503230451.UAA02437@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 22, 95 08:51:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 491 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In my fix I did my own bug. Apply this patch after that patch: *** 1.3 1995/03/24 12:39:37 --- if_ep.c 1995/03/24 13:04:55 *************** *** 489,495 **** --- 489,497 ---- * */ + GO_WINDOW(0); j = inw(BASE + EP_W0_ADDRESS_CFG) >> ACF_CONNECTOR_BITS; + GO_WINDOW(1); switch(j) { case ACF_CONNECTOR_UTP: if(sc->ep_connectors & UTP) { Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 05:36:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA14125 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 05:36:10 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA14118 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 05:36:08 -0800 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA13810; Fri, 24 Mar 95 05:33:52 -0800 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0rs8Ac-0005PKC; Fri, 24 Mar 95 13:08 MEZ Message-Id: To: hasty%netcom.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) of Wed, 22 Mar 95 12:40:10 PST. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 12:08:49 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You can blt-1.3 at: ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty/BLT-1.3.tar.gz Thanks, Amancio ! Turns out that I made tgdb_wish with BLT-1.7. So, people using the package put together by Jordan beware. What's the story ? Is someone going to try to fix the bug in BLT-1.7 ? I'm willing to give this a shot, if someone else isn't already working on it. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 06:01:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14922 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 06:01:20 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14916 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 06:01:18 -0800 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-3.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA26810; Fri, 24 Mar 95 05:55:55 -0800 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA19313; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:54:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA07986; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:56:04 GMT Message-Id: <199503240956.JAA07986@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Aled Morris Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:52:42 GMT." X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:56:03 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The > new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz > 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet > for $3000) Not a good idea. The Multia does not have the SRM console which is required to get the Digital UNIX palcode or the OpenVMS palcode. Multia only comes with the NT Palcode. This mean you could not use the NetBSD port directly and would have to re-implement the palcode interface and page table / pmap and ... I sure it could be done but the effort would be better spent on the ALPHA PCI noname motherboard support (which are about ~$1300 including processor) so you could built a comparable system to the Multia for not that much more. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 06:21:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA00190 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 06:21:21 -0800 Received: from duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu [18.43.0.236]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA15834 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 06:14:59 -0800 Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id JAA21756; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:10:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:10:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199503241410.JAA21756@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Charles M. Hannum" To: imp@village.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ultrastor 34f Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I want to know if the ultrastor 34f controller (scsi-2) VL will work with freebsd, [...] Rock solid stable since about version 1.0 GAMMA or so. That's *not* true. The original version of the u[13]4f driver didn't handle CHECK SENSE status anywhere approaching correctly. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 06:35:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA00703 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 06:35:17 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA00686 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 06:34:58 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA21278; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:29:00 +1000 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:29:00 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503241429.AAA21278@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: wdcommand() revisited .. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >wdcommand ends as follows: > outb(wdc + wd_command, command); > return (0); >} >ATA states that we first have to check the status register to ensure >command is ok. > outb(wdc + wd_command, command); > if ((inb(wdc +wd_status) & WDCS_ERR) != 0) > return (-1) /* or whatever error correction */ > return (0); >} Callers of wdcommand() are required to check the status. Many callers (too many) check it immediately by calling wdwait(). The WDCS_ERR bit in the status register isn't valid until the WDCS_BUSY bit is clear, and it is necessary to wait for up to 31 seconds for it to become clear. Others wait for an interrupt before checking. They call wdwait() too. This is a bit wasteful because the WDCS_BUSY bit is probably already clear and the 450nsec delay before reading the status register is probably guaranteed by the slowness of getting to the interrupt handler. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 07:42:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA04711 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:42:23 -0800 Received: from deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk [129.215.144.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA04703 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:42:12 -0800 Received: (from richard@localhost) by deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (8.6.10/8.6.9) id PAA05826; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:41:35 GMT Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:41:35 GMT Message-Id: <199503241541.PAA05826@deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk> From: Richard Tobin Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: Terry Lambert In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of Thu, 23 Mar 95 9:42:54 MST Organization: just say no Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think "async" should be an option, and if it must stay, at > least say "DANGER! MOUNTING /dev/whazzit ASYNC!". The async option is extremely useful on systems where it works. It can make restore 10 times faster on a Sun, for example (just let me repeat that: *10 times faster*). Obviously it's dangerous, but the situations in which it's useful are generally the ones where the danger doesn't matter, such as restoring a complete filesystem. -- Richard From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 07:54:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA05740 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:54:04 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA05719 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:53:43 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA06269; Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:52:55 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id QAA18500; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:58:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199503241558.QAA18500@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia To: aledm@relay-europe.ps.net (Aled Morris) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:58:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) In-Reply-To: from "Aled Morris" at Mar 24, 95 10:52:42 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 724 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The > new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz > 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet > for $3000) > > Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a > volunteer to do the port? There is a NetBSD port to the APX architecture. > > Aled > -- > aledm@relay-europe.ps.net | tel +44 973 207987 > Perot Systems Europe Ltd. | fax +44 181 476 2419 > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Mar 22 04:54:59 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 07:56:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA05834 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:56:27 -0800 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05828 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:56:23 -0800 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <122>; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:06:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:05:59 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Aled Morris cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Aled Morris wrote: > Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The > new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz > 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet > for $3000) NetBSD group already has done an alpha port. It still needs a lot of work though. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 07:58:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA05905 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:58:51 -0800 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA05898 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:58:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA17345; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:58:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199503241558.IAA17345@rover.village.org> To: "Charles M. Hannum" Subject: Re: ultrastor 34f Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:10:19 EST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:58:02 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Rock solid stable since about version 1.0 GAMMA or so. : : That's *not* true. The original version of the u[13]4f driver didn't : handle CHECK SENSE status anywhere approaching correctly. Hmmm. All I can say is what I've seen as a user. Had all kinds of problems with adaptech card that I tried, but very little with UltraStore 34f. Maybe I didn't hit the problems that were there, and maybe they weren't that big a deal to me. Any maybe I have a selective memory for these things :-). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 08:01:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA06118 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:01:04 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA06110; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:01:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Interop In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 95 21:16:58 GMT." <199503232116.VAA00287@star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:01:00 -0800 Message-ID: <6109.796060860@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Agreed. I'll see if I can put some sort of hot demo system together - > > we could have one Pentium box doing all kinds of snazzy stuff, a > > smaller box for poking around by customers (and even doing full > > installs on for the skeptical) and a smaller laptop running FreeBSD > > just to show that you can do it. > > > May I suggest that run vat and vic .... I wasn't really thinking of an Internet connection since those happen to cost a _fortune_ at Comdex! It's a possibility, but for now I'm going to focus on stand-alone demos.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 08:05:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA06379 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:05:02 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA06372; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:05:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Video stuff... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 95 23:32:04 GMT." <199503232332.XAA00899@star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:05:01 -0800 Message-ID: <6370.796061101@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Walking around Fry's in Palo Alto, Ca., saw a cool demostration of Jazz > Jakarta put out by Jazz Multimedia located in Santa Clara, Ca. (408) ??? > It has an mpeg option and the ability to display an NTSC signal on your > VGA or just put out an NTSC siginal. The video output on the VGA looks almos t > as good as the display on the TV. Going to try to contact them tomorrow to se e > if they are Net friendly. Let us know! A number of people are actually working on video support for X and FreeBSD (I have a Diamond Viper Pro Video card just waiting for X Inside to support it with their video extension! :-) and this is an area that's really hotting up. Much interest. > Virtual I/O are going to be demoing their Head Mounted Display (HMD) > tomorrow and Saturday at Fry's in Palo Alto. I am going to check them > out :) Heh.. I have some dealings with them too, but I have to keep that little bit of information under wraps until I can actually forward the press release to this group telling folks how they can run networked VR under FreeBSD! :-) [one of my little side-projects, and how I spent my last weekend!] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 08:19:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA07394 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:19:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA07384; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:19:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Aled Morris cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:52:42 GMT." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:19:53 -0800 Message-ID: <7383.796061993@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The > new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz > 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet > for $3000) > > Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a > volunteer to do the port? If we actually had a volunteer, this could be a serious possibility. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 08:22:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA07548 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:22:17 -0800 Received: from plains.NoDak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA07542 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:22:16 -0800 Received: by plains.NoDak.edu; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:22:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:22:01 -0600 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199503241622.AA11002@plains.NoDak.edu> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hasty@star-gate.com Subject: Re: Video stuff... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Walking around Fry's in Palo Alto, Ca., saw a cool demostration of Jazz > Jakarta put out by Jazz Multimedia located in Santa Clara, Ca. (408) ??? > It has an mpeg option and the ability to display an NTSC signal on your > VGA or just put out an NTSC siginal. The video output on the VGA looks almost > as good as the display on the TV. Going to try to contact them tomorrow to see > if they are Net friendly. see the april edition of the "Computer Shopper" for reviews of MPEG players. the Jazz was in there with several others. I can't remember what CS though of the Jazz. be carefull what you buy. there are a lot of tricks that are played to keep up with the video stream, suchas memory mapping directly into the video space (which is fine for DOS), some limit the image size to cut down on pixels, some use only 8 bit color (buy 24 bit if you want to keep the card for a while also the 8 bit colormaps have to be dynamically built for the image if your card does not do this automagically, more work for the driver -- FreeBSD has a Cortex driver that is greyscale because that is how the colormap was loaded), the new trend in MPEG I cards is the DOS/Windows AVI standand that moves some of the work into the accellerated video card. We at NDSU have some money earmarked for a video capture card for conferencing. I would like a PCI based card that has 24 bit MPEG I support. I am afraid the there will be a problem in prying the information out of the manufactures to drive a publically available driver. video is the place to be. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 08:43:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA08752 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:43:46 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA08746 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:43:45 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09409; Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:37:26 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503241637.AA09409@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: is this reasonable? To: elh@p5.spnet.com (Ed Hudson) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 9:37:25 MST Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, elh@p5.spnet.com In-Reply-To: <199503240052.AAA15572@p5.spnet.com> from "Ed Hudson" at Mar 24, 95 00:52:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > sbrk called with an arg of 1 (eg, sbrk(1)) > under fbsd2.x increments the brk by 1. > > under SunOS4.1.3, sbrk(1) increments the brk by 8, > and returns a result always double-word (8byte) > aligned. > > fbsd malloc, /usr/lib/src/libc/stdlib/malloc.c, > only aligns sbrk on its first call. Malloc should *always* return aligned objects meeting the most stringent access criteria for the machine. > i'm hazy about whether or not fbsd requires malloc > to have exclusive control of a programs brk values, > but in my reading of the man pages and this code, it > doesn't appear to be the case. if indeed malloc > is supposed to be able to co-exist with other routines > calling sbrk with >0 values, then i think that either > malloc has a latent bug, or sbrk is broken in its > behavior. Mixed use of sbrk and malloc is specificially disallowed, even on SunOs 4.1.3: ] WARNINGS ] Programs combining the brk() and sbrk() system calls and ] malloc() will not work. Many library routines use malloc() ] internally, so use brk() and sbrk() only when you know that ] malloc() definitely will not be used by any library routine. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 09:06:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA09793 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:06:14 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA09784 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:06:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol Prev-Resent: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:06:09 -0800 Prev-Resent: "hackers@freebsd.org " Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA04698 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:42:05 -0800 Received: from ilonet.ilo.dec.com by mail1.digital.com; (5.65 EXP 2/22/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA21278; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 07:26:45 -0800 Received: by ilonet.ilo.dec.com (5.65/MS-012594); id AA12770; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:27:47 GMT Received: by morse.ilo.dec.com (5.65/MS-012594); id AA18435; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:25:25 GMT Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA10140; Fri, 24 Mar 95 07:16:23 -0800 Received: from cardhu.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA06133 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:06:21 +0200 Received: by cardhu.cs.hut.fi id AA16018 (5.65c8/HUTCS-C 1.3 for lites); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:02:36 +0200 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:02:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199503241502.AA16018@cardhu.cs.hut.fi> From: Johannes Helander To: lites@cs.hut.fi, mach3@CS.cmu.edu, mach4-users@cs.utah.edu, osf1-mk@gr.osf.org Reply-To: jvh@cs.hut.fi Subject: Lites 1.1 available Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS Lab. Resent-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:06:09 -0800 Resent-Message-ID: <9783.796064769@freefall.cdrom.com> Resent-From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lites 1.1 is now available. Compared to the Lites 1.0 release, this release provides preliminary support for the OSF Microkernel, fixes a number of bugs, and includes a read only Minix file system. The OSF support is expected to work with the next version of the OSF kernel (due in April). The OSF/1 MK support was done by Johannes Helander and Jukka Virtanen with expertise provided by OSF Research Institute staff in Grenoble, in particular Francois Barbou des Places. The Minix file system was written by Csizmazia Balazs. Ian Dall provided fixes to make 8 bit TTY i/o work properly. Remy Card wrote up to date instructions on how to build and install Lites on a FreeBSD 2.0 machine (see doc/lites-on-freebsd). The emulator server interface has been cleaned up and is incompatible with earlier interfaces. This means that the Lites emulator needs to be upgraded together with the Lites server. Refer to doc/emulator-upgrading for details. Lites is available from the following locations: Europe: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mach/lites/ USA: ftp://mach.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/mach/public/src/lites/ The Lites 1.0 announcement is included below for reference. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lites 1.0 is now available. The primary purpose of this release is to make the source available to interested parties. No installation kit is included. Lites is a 4.4 BSD Lite based server and an emulation library that provide free unix functionality to a Mach based system. Lites provides binary compatibility with 4.4 BSD, NetBSD (0.8, 0.9, and 1.0), FreeBSD (1.1.5 and 2.0), 386BSD, UX (4.3BSD) and Linux on the i386 platform. It has also been ported to the pc532, PA-RISC, and preliminarily to the R3000 and Alpha. Lites works with Mach 3.0, Mach 4, and RTMach. The recommended user platforms are NetBSD 1.0 and FreeBSD 2.0. Linux file system support is not included in this release. Lites was written by Johannes Helander at Helsinki University of Technology based on 4.4 BSD Lite from University of California and code written by the CMU Mach group. Several people have contributed to the effort, including Ian Dall, Mike Hibler, Jeff Law, Bryan Ford, Jukka Virtanen, Mary Thompson, Sampo Kellomaki, John Dyson, Csizmazia Balazs, Chris Maeda, and Timo Rinne. Special care has been put into keeping the code legally clean. Each piece of code that has been added to Lites has been carefully examined. There is no Net2 or 4.3 BSD code in Lites. Lites consists of a multithreaded single server that handles multiple system calls from any process, file paging, etc. and an emulation library that provides applications with an environment that looks like the system the application expects. The emulator is a completely new implementation and removes most of the security problems associated with earlier emulators (protection against resource attacks requires kernel support). Lites has been self hosting for several months. Its current performance is 6% lower than that of NetBSD 1.0 as measured by building gcc within the exact same machine and environment. Many obvious optimizations especially in the field of i/o have not yet been made. Lites is available from the following locations: Europe: ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/mach/lites/ USA: ftp://mach.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/mach/public/src/lites/ For more information refer to the Lites home page http://www.cs.hut.fi/lites.html I have also made my Master's thesis available in postscript form under the same URL. It covers some aspects of Lites. Johannes ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 09:09:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA09937 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:09:33 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA09929 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:09:32 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09514; Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:03:07 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503241703.AA09514@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? To: seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp (Masahiro SEKIGUCHI) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:03:06 MST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503240254.AA15225@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> from "Masahiro SEKIGUCHI" at Mar 24, 95 11:54:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The first third party LKM was a console driver called "World 21". It > >was an ISO 2022 driver based on (I think) JIS 212 (might have been the > >older 208). > > JIS X 212 is a supplement to X 208. Sole use of X 212 doesn't make > sense. "World 21" must support X 208 only or both X 208 and X 212. I'm sorry; the "212" I was referring to was a font that was inclusive of 208. It should have been "JIS 212 + 208". > Hmm. Your work must have addressed a "complete" > internationalizaion... For sysinstall, I think, we just need: Yes. Including the ability to rename the password file and system directories to locale-specific names without recompiling binaries. The shell work was far from complete, however, and most utilities fell back to the old interfaces by definition. > (1) ways of altering messages yes. > (2) ways to display non-ASCII characters on the screen. yes. > >It also has the little problem of needing 1280x1024 to get > >an 80x25 standard font cell screen. > > It is common among Japanese PC that a Kanji occupies two columns on a > screen. IBM/Microsoft DOS/V, which is a Japanese version of DOS, runs > with 640x480 standard VGA screen, allowing 40x25 Kanji capacity. So I learned ...*after* doing the implementation. 8-). > # I agree that the console driver must implement complicated control > # over cell management in this case. DOS/V console driver (so-called > # JDISP) did it. Which is more popular now, DOS/V PC's, or the NEC machines? The NEC would require a different console driver anyway, since the hardware is different. I remember that this had been done back in the 386BSD 0.1 days. I have tried to get my hands on a NEC machine here in the US with no luck. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 09:15:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA10265 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:15:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA10258; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:15:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp (Masahiro SEKIGUCHI), hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Japanese syscons font? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:03:06 MST." <9503241703.AA09514@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:15:35 -0800 Message-ID: <10257.796065335@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The NEC would require a different console driver anyway, since the > hardware is different. I remember that this had been done back in > the 386BSD 0.1 days. It's already been done again for 2.0, though we totally punted on actually bringing in the support since nobody was interested enough in obscure hardware they didn't have to do the integration work! :-( Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 09:27:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA11057 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:27:01 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA11045 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:26:57 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09650; Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:20:18 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503241720.AA09650@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: obscure NMI To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:20:18 MST Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl In-Reply-To: <199503240935.TAA12296@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Mar 24, 95 07:35:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Any suggestions on: > > NMI port 61 a0, port 70 7f, port 461 10 > >? > > >This happens just after the npx probe message is displayed on _every_ > >boot (1.1.5). The system board is a Philips P3464 EISA, with 20Mb mem. > > NMI was used on XTs for reporting FPU exceptions. It is even less > suitable for this purpose than the IRQ13 used on AT's, but XTs have > even less spare interrupts than AT's and 8086's don't even generate > exceptions for illegal opcodes. > > The npx probe generates an FPU exception. Perhaps the P3464 generates > both IRQ13 and NMI for reporting FPU exceptions. This braindamage is > required for compatibility but it is usually implemented in software > (by jumping from the IRQ13 handler to the NMI handler after dismissing > the IRQ13). There is some very interesting code in the Linux kernel to tell which way the FPU behaves and deal with it correctly thereafter. This is right before they check if you have a buggy Pentium or not (to deal with that) and right after they check if the WP bit is honored in protected mode or not and deal with that. I would suggest something similar should be done. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 09:37:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA12795 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:37:42 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12541 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:37:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA19551 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:37:16 +0200 Message-Id: <199503241737.TAA19551@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: XNTPD question. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:37:15 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks I have set up xntpd on my machine, and for the most part it works very well. (Thanks!) Can anyone help with a niggling problem I have? The _only_ problem I have (and this is with it compiled out-of-the-box with no crypto code) are the following messages logged at startup, indicating (?) that the system clock is not goin to be used: > Mar 19 11:05:03 grunt xntpd[81]: xntpd version=3.4e (beta multicast); Sat Mar 18 21:50:23 SAT 1995 (1) > Mar 19 11:05:03 grunt xntpd[81]: tickadj = 5, tick = 10000, tvu_maxslew = 495 > Mar 19 11:05:04 grunt xntpd[81]: refclock_newpeer: clock type 1 invalid > Mar 19 11:05:04 grunt xntpd[81]: configuration of 127.127.1.7 failed > Mar 19 11:05:04 grunt xntpd[81]: using xntpd phase-lock loop Here is my /etc/ntp.conf: # ntp.conf for grondar.za # Mark Murray, March 1995 # # # hardware clocks # server 127.127.1.7 # local clock <- Local guru swears this should work # # servers and peers # syntax: {server,peer} addr [ key 1-15 ] [ version 1/2/3 ] # server version 3 # stratum 3 iafrica server version 3 # stratum 3 iafrica server version 3 # stratum 3 UniNet # # listen to broadcasts? # broadcastclient yes broadcastdelay 0.003 # # authentication stuff # keys /etc/ntp.keys authenticate no #trustedkey requestkey 65535 controlkey 65535 authdelay 0.00005 # i486dx/50MHz (+O) # # various parameters and files # precision -10 driftfile /etc/ntp.drift monitor yes -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 09:43:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA13375 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:43:29 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA13369 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:43:28 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09749; Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:35:52 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503241735.AA09749@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:35:51 MST Cc: aledm@relay-europe.ps.net, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503241558.QAA18500@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> from "Christoph Kukulies" at Mar 24, 95 04:58:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The > > new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz > > 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet > > for $3000) > > > > Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a > > volunteer to do the port? > > There is a NetBSD port to the APX architecture. This is for the DEC AXP150. An EISA machine with an Adaptec 1742 controller; there is supposedly no X support, and a number of other problems. There is, however, the basic code for the Alpha processor with the OSF Alpha microcode, and *significant* work on many parts of the 4.4 system to make it 64 bit clean. On the other hand, EISA is being replaced by PCI and the AHA1742 is a dead piece of hardware (so is the AXP150, for that matter). The new DEC Alpha PCI motherboard ($1170 from DEC Direct), although it wants PS/2 style SIMMs (bletch) and the default microcode requires 16M of memory, seems a much better deal. There is a DEC-available-to-askers-only microcode update disk that allows it to run with only 8M (still the OSF microcode otherwise) and in fact, Linux is already booting from floppy on this hardware configuration (the guy doing the work lives about 17 minutes away from me). Personally, I would prefer that at *least* kernel multithreading and *preferrably* SMP support were in prior to ossifying the kernel and VM structures into multiple architectures which would then have to be individually retrofitted as interface changes were made to put them in. In the limit, I think it possible that the job might become to large to *ever* tackle otherwise. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 09:52:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA14401 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:52:07 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14381 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:52:03 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15954 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:53:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199503241753.KAA15954@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:08:49 GMT." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:53:35 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > Thanks, Amancio ! Turns out that I made tgdb_wish with BLT-1.7. So, > people using the package put together by Jordan beware. does that explain why i get "tgdb_wish: uid xxx: exited on signal 11" everytime i try to use that package? Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:03:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA14674 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:03:08 -0800 Received: from dolphin.mikom.csir.co.za (dolphin.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.28.40]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14662 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:02:13 -0800 Received: (from jhay@localhost) by dolphin.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA04171; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:02:05 +0200 From: John Hay Message-Id: <199503241802.UAA04171@dolphin.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: XNTPD question. To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:02:04 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503241737.TAA19551@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Mar 24, 95 07:37:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 175 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm using: server 127.127.1.0 # Local phase-locked clock > server 127.127.1.7 # local clock <- Local guru swears this should work -- John Hay -- jhay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:06:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA14761 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:06:58 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14755 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:06:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA27904; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:06:32 +0200 Message-Id: <199503241806.UAA27904@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: John Hay cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: XNTPD question. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:06:30 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks! I'm rebooting in an hour or two, so I'll try it then! > I'm using: > server 127.127.1.0 # Local phase-locked clock > > > server 127.127.1.7 # local clock <- Local guru swears this should work > > -- > John Hay -- jhay@mikom.csir.co.za -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:16:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA14896 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:16:38 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA14890 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:16:37 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10007; Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:09:14 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503241809.AA10007@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Fix for 3C509 (ep) driver To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:09:14 MST Cc: davidg@Root.COM, mmead@goof.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503242252.RAA01136@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Mar 24, 95 05:52:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have fixed another bug in 3C509 driver that prevents FBSD from > network booting through other connectors than BNC. Now it will > use transceiver specified in the EEPROM instead of select based > on interface flags. >From my reading of this, this means that it's better for remote boot from the card, since now it's possible to designate the interface, but it won't resond to specific use of the "link" flags? I think specific use of the link flags is still desirable; I have more than one machine that I switch between nets using the link flags to do the job because I don't want to crap on the main wire with experimental code. Perhaps "link0" should be the card default and "link1", etc. should pick specific card connectors? Also: for card that support dual interfaces, it's frequently true that it's possible for the probe routine to pick the interface correctly and automatically by picking an interface that knows about being disconnected from the net first, followed by the one that doesn't know if it's on the net or not. Clearly, this wouldn't work for my machine with multiple wires hooked up, but for the typical installation, it could cause the ethernet driver to simply "do the right thing". Does the idea of having link type flags need to be revisited? link description ----- ---------------------------------------------- 0* Do the right thing based on connectedness 1 Use the EEPROM settings 2 AUI 3 BNC 4 ... * indicates default behaviour It almost makes sense to go away from the current numeric identifiers, as ugly as that might be... Finally: Many cards support determining the IRQ and memory addresses dynamically based on knowing the I/O address to INB from. This doesn't seem to be in there for a lot of the cards known to do this? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:22:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA14978 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:22:00 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA14972 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:21:59 -0800 Received: from rks32.pcs.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA29822; Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:19:33 -0800 Received: by rks32.pcs.dec.com (Smail3.1.27.1 #16) id m0rsDvT-0005OqC; Fri, 24 Mar 95 19:17 MEZ Message-Id: To: fbsd%clem.systemsix.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Cc: hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from Steve Passe of Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:53:35 MST. Reply-To: gj@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 18:17:35 GMT From: "gj%pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Thanks, Amancio ! Turns out that I made tgdb_wish with BLT-1.7. So, >> people using the package put together by Jordan beware. > > does that explain why i get "tgdb_wish: uid xxx: exited on signal 11" > everytime i try to use that package? Do you mean, you just start it and it croaks ? Or is there a certain sequence of operations which cause it to segv ? According to the author (from the INSTALL file) you have to go into HELP and click on the TOC button (or something like that) to tickle the bug. I usually don't do that and tgdb works just fine for me. Are you running 2.0R or -current ? I made tgdb_wish for 2.0. Gary J. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:22:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15001 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:22:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA14994; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:22:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) cc: aw2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alex R.N. Wetmore), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: laptop suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Mar 95 09:46:53 +0700." <9503120846.AA00812@login.dknet.dk> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:22:25 -0800 Message-ID: <14993.796069345@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 11-Mar-95 laptop > > suggestions by Poul-Henning Kamp@ref.tf > > > I'm in the market for a < $3000 laptop, any good suggetions ? > > Go look in the store where jordan bought mine :-) > It nice and steady (no APM though) runs like a charm: BTW, this "Chembook" company is apparently getting a lot bigger. I was at a store yestday where they had the full line, all the way up to TFT color and 610MB hard disk. Did you say you were having trouble getting in touch with the company? I can probably get you contact details from one of their dealers. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:23:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15033 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:23:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15026; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:23:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: A "FreeBSD" Daemon In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 12 Mar 95 17:27:32 +0800." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:23:13 -0800 Message-ID: <15025.796069393@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I agree. Out of the three, I would say "NetBSD" has the nicest ring > to it. "FreeBSD" and "Linux" don't have that "professional" sound to > them. I suppose you could go around telling everyone not to judge a book > by its cover, but it would be easier just to come up with a nicer cover. :) I'd say we've already got far too much brand identification with the old name. Trying to change it now, after almost 2 years, would be hellish. No thank you! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:27:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15119 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:27:14 -0800 Received: from p5.spnet.com (elh.com [204.156.130.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15113 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:27:12 -0800 Received: from localhost.spnet.com (localhost.spnet.com [127.0.0.1]) by p5.spnet.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA22093; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:25:23 GMT Message-Id: <199503241025.KAA22093@p5.spnet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: p5.spnet.com: Host localhost.spnet.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: elh@p5.spnet.com Subject: Re: is this reasonable (malloc/sbrk/malloc)? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:37:25 MST." <9503241637.AA09409@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:25:23 +0000 From: Ed Hudson Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Mixed use of sbrk and malloc is specificially disallowed, even on >SunOs 4.1.3: > >] WARNINGS >] Programs combining the brk() and sbrk() system calls and >] malloc() will not work. Many library routines use malloc() >] internally, so use brk() and sbrk() only when you know that >] malloc() definitely will not be used by any library routine. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu howdy. thanks much for the illucidation. but am i mistaken, or is the 'WARNINGS' above abscent in the man pages for fbsd? i ran into this problem porting a large software piece (ocean from olt.et.tudelft.nl), which had some C++ code calling sbrk, and other routines malloc-ing. i've always believed that intermixing was incorrect, but coudn't see any current restrictions stated in fbsd, and had wondered if this might be one of the 4.4 improvements... and even though intermixing may be incorrect, the port under SunOS works correctly (at least for the included test cases). in fbsd, however, subsequent library calls (getcwd() via opendir), check to make sure the space returned by malloc is aligned, and return NULL (with a misleading errno set) if it isn't. i've modified the code i'm porting to make references to malloc instead of sbrk, but i have some concerns that there could be other code that has similar problems (NOT NECESSARILY INTERMIXING malloc and sbrk, but just expecting SBRK to always have aligned behaviour, which fbsd doesn't). certainly the semantics of sbrk() are different in fbsd vs sunos. thanks for the information, but i still question: 1) should fbsd's sbrk returned aligned values, ie, emulate SunOS 4.1.x behavior 2) where's the sbrk/malloc warning in fbsd? confused and still a little concerned... -elh From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:42:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15548 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:42:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15542; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:42:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: "Commissioning" some artwork.. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:42:49 -0800 Message-ID: <15541.796070569@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm making a big leap of faith here and assuming that you're not already completely and utterly sick of us for nit-picking all of your artwork to death (:-), but I came up with an idea for the 2.1 CD cover the other day and I think it's good enough (pat pat) to potentially be THE artwork we use for the next CD. If you could be somehow pursuaded to do "made to order" artwork like this, I'm sure we could somehow make it worth your time and effort! :-) The idea is essentially this: You remember in your first image, you had the daemon floating above a CD that was partially reflecting him in the act of shattering a Windows icon. Well, Kirk didn't like the Windows icon very much but perhaps we can expand on another part of the image, namely the CD. My idea is that we have the daemon in motion walking OUT of a CD, sort of caught halfway out with that trademark smile on his face and one sneakered foot poised to set foot into the outside world. Sort of an "Alice through the looking glass" kind of image. What do you think? I think it'd be a dynamite CD cover (especially if done in the raytraced quality you've been doing the previous ones in) in 24 bit, and we'd also be more than happy to put your name in the corner of the CD for due credit. You'd be famous! I unfortunately can't promise you that you'd be RICH, too, but we can probably work out something to our mutual satisfaction! :-) Comments? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:44:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15587 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:44:47 -0800 Received: from duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$%^&*!#$@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu [18.43.0.236]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15580 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:44:43 -0800 Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id NAA23298; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:23:41 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:23:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199503241823.NAA23298@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Charles M. Hannum" To: terry@cs.weber.edu Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Cc: aledm@relay-europe.ps.net, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is for the DEC AXP150. An EISA machine with an Adaptec 1742 controller; there is supposedly no X support, and a number of other problems. Uh, hello? 1) As far as I know, neither the machine Aled mentioned, nor the machine the original port work was done on have an EISA bus. Perhaps you're thinking of the Linux port. 2) If you want to know the state of that port, you should *ask*. And don't ask me; I don't have much to do with it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 10:48:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15655 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:48:12 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15649; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:48:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: P.S. [images] Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:48:11 -0800 Message-ID: <15648.796070891@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We're still also interested in a suitable poster image, which could be the same as the CD image but for variety's sake would probably be nicer as something more "poster like" and without such a strong CD bias (on the cover of a CD it makes perfect sense, on a poster probably less so). This image would also be put on coffee cups, one of which would be sent to each major contributor. We know which liquid fuels most of our contributions! :-) Finally, demand in Europe is apparently quite high for a *stuffed* Daemon! I've gotten numerous requests for such things, the last being a German request forwarded to me by Joerg, and I think that it might not be a bad idea to see the little guy immortalized in cotton stuffing! Anyone know of a good place to go for such things? And if anyone recommends alt.sex.plushies, I'll hit them with a stick! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:04:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15998 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:04:12 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15990 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:04:06 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00491; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:03:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199503241903.VAA00491@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Murray cc: John Hay , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: XNTPD question. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:03:42 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It works! It works! Ekosi kakhulu bhuti! > I'm rebooting in an hour or two, so I'll try it then! > > > I'm using: > > server 127.127.1.0 # Local phase-locked clock -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:12:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16994 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:12:16 -0800 Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (bakul@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16988; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:12:14 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id LAA14685; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:09:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199503241909.LAA14685@netcom6.netcom.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: P.S. [images] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:48:11 PST." <15648.796070891@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:09:48 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Finally, demand in Europe is apparently quite high for a *stuffed* > Daemon! I've gotten numerous requests for such things, the last being > a German request forwarded to me by Joerg, and I think that it might > not be a bad idea to see the little guy immortalized in cotton > stuffing! Whoever owns the copyright (is it Kirk McKusick?) can get rich if we continue along this line. Just imagine. A stuffed cuddly Daemon! A Daemon shaped mouse! A line of plastic toy Daemons! A Saturday morning Daemon cartoon show! A Daemon tv show! A full length Daemon movie! Daemon songs! The possibilities are endless. But seriously, I'd take a stuffed Daemon. --bakul PS: Nice work on the poster, Hosokawa-san! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:13:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17008 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:13:07 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17002; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:13:04 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00593; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:08:16 GMT Message-Id: <199503241108.LAA00593@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: gj@FreeBSD.org cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:08:49 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:08:13 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You can blt-1.3 at: ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty/BLT-1.3.tar.gz > > Thanks, Amancio ! Turns out that I made tgdb_wish with BLT-1.7. So, > people using the package put together by Jordan beware. > > What's the story ? Is someone going to try to fix the bug in BLT-1.7 ? > I'm willing to give this a shot, if someone else isn't already working on > it. > Gary J. Well, feel free to take a stab at fixing the problem. I would mail to the author of blt to see if he has fixed the problem already. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:17:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17097 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:17:17 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA17089 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:17:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Jordan's new status.. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:17:16 -0800 Message-ID: <17088.796072636@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I promised to say something about this a week or so back and have been too busy with my new status to talk much about it! :-) I am now no longer an in-house employee of Walnut Creek CDROM, but rather a full-time "author", working almost strictly from home. I am in charge of making sure that every FreeBSD CD goes out looking good and that FreeBSD itself is fed and reasonably happy. This means that I'll keep sending out free hardware to folks that need and/or deserve it and otherwise manning the pumps when crunch time comes around at each release. I'll also be the release engineer for 2.2 unless somebody comes along wanting that dubious distinction (Poul has already said that 2 turns in the box was enough for him). On top of that, I have some various tasks: 1. PR. WC has also given me a travel budget, and I'll therefore be traveling to and/or speaking at the various shows where it looks like FreeBSD's presence would be a Good Thing. I'll also start releasing frequent "progress reports" for the project, which my USENET Man Friday, Peter da Silva, will be posting to the net (thanks, Peter, for stepping forward with that!). This will help to give the deserved impression that FreeBSD is not moribund and that we're really _working_ here. The Linux newsgroups and mailing lists are always full of "whats going on" information, which really helps its community to feel like they're part of an exciting and evolving process. Is it any wonder that its followers are so rabid? They all feel like they have a stake in its development! The popular misconception that the *BSDs are deaf to their constituencies and are "closed door" projects is one that's going to be tough to break, but I'll be making it one of my personal crusades to do so. 2. Developer liason. Talking to Important People(tm) in the industry is a critical part of getting more commercial acceptance for FreeBSD, and I'll be dusting off my suit occasionally to go and talk with hardware and software vendors in an effort to convince them that we're the right horse to back. Anyone having ANY NAMES OR CONTACT INFORMATION they think might be helpful in such endeavors is very strongly urged to contact me! I'm now effectively a full-time employee of FreeBSD, so treat me as a resource! I can't complain about how I have a full-time job AND FreeBSD anymore, now can I? :-) 3. Documentation. I'll be diving into the FreeBSD book and other assorted documentation with a vengence just as soon as the 2.1 crunch is over. More on this as it happens, since doc is something that's much talked about and little done, so I'll just hope that actions will speak louder than words here! 4. Installation. I'll say no more about this except to say "watch my dust" :-) I will hopefully have quite a bit to do with 2.1's installation and general user hand-holding framework. It's definitely #1 on my mind in the 2.1 timeframe. 5. Janitorial services. You have something you've been desperate to see cleaned up and/or improved in FreeBSD and nobody is talking to you? Well, send it to me. Depending on how busy with the other 4 tasks I am (and they WILL invariably take priority, so don't expect me to gladly push the broom in all cases), I will either help you or join the queue of people ignoring you! :-) Well, that's all.. Other aspects of my new "job" will no doubt become apparent as we develop them. Just to let you know that the project now has at least one "full timer" to keep things in order, and this is something which it has sorely needed for some time. I suppose David counts for a full-timer as well, though we need to work on getting him more money to live on.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:19:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17163 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:19:28 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17157; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:19:25 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00616; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:14:39 GMT Message-Id: <199503241114.LAA00616@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: "Commissioning" some artwork.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:42:49 PST." <15541.796070569@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:14:38 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm making a big leap of faith here and assuming that you're not > already completely and utterly sick of us for nit-picking all of your > artwork to death (:-), but I came up with an idea for the 2.1 CD cover > the other day and I think it's good enough (pat pat) to potentially be > THE artwork we use for the next CD. Whatever happened to the Big Step Idea? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:31:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17487 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:31:57 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17481 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:31:51 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00760; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:26:48 GMT Message-Id: <199503241126.LAA00760@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Steve Passe cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:53:35 MST." <199503241753.KAA15954@clem.systemsix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:26:47 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hello, > > > Thanks, Amancio ! Turns out that I made tgdb_wish with BLT-1.7. So, > > people using the package put together by Jordan beware. > > does that explain why i get "tgdb_wish: uid xxx: exited on signal 11" > everytime i try to use that package? > > Steve Passe > smp@clem.systemsix.com No, must likely you are using FreeBSD-2.0. I just grabbed all the extensions required and build TkSteal and tgdb for my FreeBSD-2.0 box. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:38:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17641 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:38:40 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA17401 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:29:27 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11949; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:19:34 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id UAA04065 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:19:33 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA10654 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:07:28 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503241907.UAA10654@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: "Commissioning" some artwork.. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:07:28 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <15541.796070569@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 10:42:49 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 543 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > My idea is that we have the daemon in motion walking OUT of a CD, sort > of caught halfway out with that trademark smile on his face and one > sneakered foot poised to set foot into the outside world. Sort of an > "Alice through the looking glass" kind of image. > Comments? I love it. The smiling daemon has always been impressing every person i showed the CD. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:43:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17777 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:43:55 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17771 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:43:51 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA31351; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 05:38:18 +1000 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 05:38:18 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199503241938.FAA31351@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: elh@p5.spnet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: is this reasonable (malloc/sbrk/malloc)? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > in fbsd, however, subsequent library calls (getcwd() > via opendir), check to make sure the space returned by > malloc is aligned, and return NULL (with a misleading > errno set) if it isn't. I couldn't see where opendir checks it. > 1) should fbsd's sbrk returned aligned values, > ie, emulate SunOS 4.1.x behavior > 2) where's the sbrk/malloc warning in fbsd? I think malloc() is broken. It is documented to return page-aligned storage "if the space is of pagesize or larger". Aligning the brk to a multiple of 8 in sbrk() won't fix malloc(). 1 is a less unsuitable alignment on x86's than on systems that force alignment checking. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:50:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17963 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:50:06 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA17956; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:50:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bakul Shah cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: P.S. [images] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:09:48 PST." <199503241909.LAA14685@netcom6.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:50:04 -0800 Message-ID: <17954.796074604@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Whoever owns the copyright (is it Kirk McKusick?) can get > rich if we continue along this line. Just imagine. A > stuffed cuddly Daemon! A Daemon shaped mouse! A line of > plastic toy Daemons! A Saturday morning Daemon cartoon > show! A Daemon tv show! A full length Daemon movie! > Daemon songs! The possibilities are endless. "I write GUI, you write C, we're a freebie fa-mi-ly with a great big hack and a..." I'm sorry, I just can't go on. I'll leave the daemon song to someone else! :-) And Kirk McKusick, just for the record, has given WC good redistribution terms for the little guy. I don't think he'll get rich from our promos.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:54:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA18066 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:54:53 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18059 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:54:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00878; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:45:00 GMT Message-Id: <199503241145.LAA00878@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Mark Tinguely cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Video stuff... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:22:01 CST." <199503241622.AA11002@plains.NoDak.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:44:59 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > We at NDSU have some money earmarked for a video capture card for conferencing. > I would like a PCI based card that has 24 bit MPEG I support. I am afraid the > there will be a problem in prying the information out of the manufactures > to drive a publically available driver. > > video is the place to be. > > --mark. Hi, Jazz Multimedia may meet your criteria they have VLB and PCI models and they claim to work at 24bit. I just send e-mail to their vice president of marketing however it would be nice if others try to contact the company. Their vice president of Marketing is Jim Anderson (jazzjima@aol.com) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 11:59:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA18188 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:59:34 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA18181 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:59:28 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10502; Fri, 24 Mar 95 12:52:53 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503241952.AA10502@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia To: mycroft@ai.mit.edu (Charles M. Hannum) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 12:52:53 MST Cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, aledm@relay-europe.ps.net, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503241823.NAA23298@duality.gnu.ai.mit.edu> from "Charles M. Hannum" at Mar 24, 95 01:23:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is for the DEC AXP150. > > An EISA machine with an Adaptec 1742 controller; there is > supposedly no X support, and a number of other problems. > > Uh, hello? > > 1) As far as I know, neither the machine Aled mentioned, nor the > machine the original port work was done on have an EISA bus. Perhaps > you're thinking of the Linux port. He said "APX" which I took to mean "AXP", since DEC doesn't have an "APX" as far as I know. Sorry to disappoint you, but the Linux port (what I've seen of it) is a pure PCI motherboard port. > 2) If you want to know the state of that port, you should *ask*. And > don't ask me; I don't have much to do with it. I was basing my statements on what I had been *told* after having *asked*. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:04:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18398 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:04:04 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA18388; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:03:59 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA01071; Fri, 24 Mar 95 20:03:41 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA10452; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:03:34 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:03:34 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9503242003.AA10452@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <15648.796070891@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: P.S. [images] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> Finally, demand in Europe is apparently quite high for a Jordan> *stuffed* Daemon! Yes, please! I can't tell you how many times my wife loudly exclaims ``He's SOOOOOO CUTE!'' whenever I pull out one of the 4.4BSD books, or the FreeBSD CD-ROM, or have the FreeBSD home page up on the screen, or ... anyway, a stuffed daemon would help keep her company when she's away at conferences and what-not, too. --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:04:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18437 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:04:48 -0800 Received: from netcom18.netcom.com (bakul@netcom18.netcom.com [192.100.81.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18431; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:04:45 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom18.netcom.com (8.6.10/Netcom) id MAA07254; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:02:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199503242002.MAA07254@netcom18.netcom.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: P.S. [images] In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 11:50:04 PST." <17954.796074604@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 12:02:30 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > "I write GUI, you write C, we're a freebie fa-mi-ly with a great big hack > and a..." I thought of something along this line but I was already feeling sick. > I'm sorry, I just can't go on. I'll leave the daemon song to someone > else! :-) Well as part of your new PR responsibilities you just might have to learn to sing such a Daemon song. ;^) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:26:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19169 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:26:53 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19158 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:26:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01066 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:26:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199503242026.WAA01066@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: The BSD prayer. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:26:27 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk WARNING!! Some folk _MAY_ take offense, so if religious rip-offs are a problem for you, read no further: Our OS, Which art in system, BSD be thy name, Thy release come, Thy CD be done, In Home as it is in Freefall, Give us each day our daily CTMs, And forgive us our hacking, As we forgive those who hack against us. Lead us not into Windoze, But deliver us from Linux, For thine is the CPU, The Disk and the Memory, (until the next release) Amen. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:29:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19259 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:29:59 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA19253 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:29:57 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA10722; Fri, 24 Mar 95 13:23:48 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503242023.AA10722@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 13:23:47 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > There is a NetBSD port to the APX architecture. > > > > This is for the DEC AXP150. > > Actually, its not. Its for the 3000/[456789]00. The AXP150 is > specifically not supported, and the 3000/300 series isn't either. > > The Linux port does work on this box, though. I just got this from someone intimate with the NetBSD/Alpha stuff. Apparently, the Maeda and PCI maxhines are not supported. So there is room for funded work... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:44:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19833 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:44:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA19825 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:44:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: httpd as part of the system. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:44:09 -0800 Message-ID: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our system in an effort to both: A) Improve the infrastructure that our docs team can rely on. B) Make FreeBSD a better "out of box" Internet solution. 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow (I think it's the CERN httpd). 2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. I *know* that these are both ports, I'm simply proposing that we raise the status of both to "standard component" status. I also know that the bloatists will scream, but all I can offer in way of defense is to say that this is a pretty inevitable part of the software vs advancing customer expectations part of the field and you all might as well get used to it. We're hardly the only folks adding features daily, and if anything we've been pretty restrained in comparison to Microsoft, IBM and Novell! Other than screams of "bloat! bloat!", any comments? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:46:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19904 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:46:12 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA19897; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:46:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Murray cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The BSD prayer. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 22:26:27 +0200." <199503242026.WAA01066@grunt.grondar.za> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:46:10 -0800 Message-ID: <19896.796077970@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Some corrections: > Our OS, > Which art on disk, > FreeBSD be thy name, > Thy release come, > Thy CD be done, > In ftp://ftp.freebsd.org as it is in Freefall, > Give us each day our daily CTMs, > And forgive us our hacking, > As we forgive those who hack against us. > Lead us not into Windoze, > But deliver us from Linux, > For thine is the CPU, > The Disk and the Memory, > (until the next release) > Amen. Other than that, perfect! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:47:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19972 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:47:22 -0800 Received: from runner.utsa.edu (runner.jpl.utsa.edu [129.115.50.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA19963 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:47:20 -0800 Received: by runner.utsa.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA17184; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:47:07 -0600 From: ferovick@runner.jpl.utsa.edu (David C Ferovick) Message-Id: <9503242047.AA17184@runner.utsa.edu> Subject: Re: A "FreeBSD" Daemon To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:47:07 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <15025.796069393@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 10:23:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1001 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I agree. Out of the three, I would say "NetBSD" has the nicest ring > > to it. "FreeBSD" and "Linux" don't have that "professional" sound to > > them. I suppose you could go around telling everyone not to judge a book > > by its cover, but it would be easier just to come up with a nicer cover. :) > > I'd say we've already got far too much brand identification with the old > name. Trying to change it now, after almost 2 years, would be hellish. > No thank you! :-) > > Jordan > It would be hellish, but I am sure that you could gain alot from it. I have had three different chances to run FreeBSD on systems in the past, to support a commercial userbase, and each time I was forced to choose NetBSD or BSDI instead, because the people involved didn't think it was a good idea to run a OS with the word 'Free' in it when you are charging people to use it.. I'm sure this argument is much more widespread than just the three incidents I am talking about. Dave Ferovick From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:47:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19980 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:47:24 -0800 Received: from LAGAVULIN.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU (LAGAVULIN.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.198.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA19974 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:47:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199503242047.MAA19974@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from localhost by LAGAVULIN.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU id aa02587; 24 Mar 95 15:46 EST To: Terry Lambert cc: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, aledm@relay-europe.ps.net, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com X-Copyright: Copyright 1995, Christopher G. Demetriou. All rights reserved. X-Notice: Duplication and redistribution prohibited without consent of the author. Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:35:51 MST." <9503241735.AA09749@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:38 -0500 From: Chris G Demetriou Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a > > > volunteer to do the port? > > > > There is a NetBSD port to the APX architecture. > > This is for the DEC AXP150. > > An EISA machine with an Adaptec 1742 controller; there is supposedly > no X support, and a number of other problems. My normal suggestion applies: If you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk about it. Terry: you obviously have absolutely no clue about what Alpha platforms NetBSD supports or plans to support. Given that, could you please refrain from "informing" people with your "knowledge" about it? NetBSD/Alpha currently runs on all of the turbochannel machines. the EISA and PCI boxes are the next targets, and, from what i can tell, they shouldn't be _that_ much work. If anybody would like info on NetBSD/Alpha, I'm the person to ask; I'm the person who wrote most of the code, and the person who's currently maintaining and developing the code. later, chris From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 12:49:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20043 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:49:15 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20037; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:49:14 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA14957; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:49:11 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503242049.MAA14957@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:49:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 12:44:09 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 320 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I *know* that these are both ports, I'm simply proposing that we raise > the status of both to "standard component" status. Yes PLEASE! -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:06:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA20369 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:06:46 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA20361; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:06:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: ferovick@runner.jpl.utsa.edu (David C Ferovick) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: A "FreeBSD" Daemon In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:47:07 CST." <9503242047.AA17184@runner.utsa.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:06:44 -0800 Message-ID: <20359.796079204@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It would be hellish, but I am sure that you could gain alot from it. > I have had three different chances to run FreeBSD on systems in the past, > to support a commercial userbase, and each time I was forced to choose > NetBSD or BSDI instead, because the people involved didn't think it was > a good idea to run a OS with the word 'Free' in it when you are charging > people to use it.. I'm sure this argument is much more widespread than > just the three incidents I am talking about. I'm not saying that incidents like this don't occur, and I'm more than aware of the potentially negative implications of the word "Free", but I'm much more inclined to simply work on changing the perception rather than the name. 20 years ago, would you have thought a computer named after a piece of fruit to be a pretty silly idea? Now you can talk about Apple computers without even smiling at the joke (and believe me, when they first came out this was most definitely not the case!) - it's become a brand name and lost any elements of association with the more standard english word that it may once have had. I think that, with a little work, the "Free" in "FreeBSD" can either gain brand-name status or become synonymous with a different connotation of "free", that meaning openness (REAL openness, not the ersatz openness of most OpenThis and OpenThat standards), freedom to develop it, freedom to share the work with many external developers which may constitute a serious part of your business development resource, etc. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:21:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA20690 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:21:24 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA20684; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:21:21 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11624; Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:15:11 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503242115.AA11624@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:15:10 MST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 12:44:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Other than screams of "bloat! bloat!", any comments? The Knights Who Say 'Bloat!' demand of you.... A minimal installation! Bloat! Bloat! Bloat! ...And then you must chop down the largest lawyer in the industry with... a herring. [ Oh, Please.... ] Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:24:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA20829 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:24:09 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA20821; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:24:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:15:10 MST." <9503242115.AA11624@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:24:05 -0800 Message-ID: <20820.796080245@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Other than screams of "bloat! bloat!", any comments? > > The Knights Who Say 'Bloat!' demand of you.... > > A minimal installation! Actually, this seems to me to be more of an install question than it is a system component question. We're already splitting up our "standard" dist into multiple components anyway, what say you to a `netplus' distribution? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:26:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA20901 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:26:19 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA20895; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:26:17 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11658; Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:20:07 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503242120.AA11658@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:20:06 MST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <20820.796080245@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 01:24:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, this seems to me to be more of an install question than it > is a system component question. We're already splitting up our > "standard" dist into multiple components anyway, what say you to a > `netplus' distribution? Maybe configuration specific distribution sets, then? I don't really recognize the distinction between a standard component and a port... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:29:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA20976 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:29:31 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20970; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:29:28 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA15172; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:29:26 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503242129.NAA15172@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:29:25 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <20820.796080245@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 01:24:05 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 573 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, this seems to me to be more of an install question than it > is a system component question. We're already splitting up our > "standard" dist into multiple components anyway, what say you to a > `netplus' distribution? For httpd, yes, lynx no. I want us to have a shell script named "help" which does a "lynx /usr/share/FAQ/FAQ.html" or something similar in the standard dist. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:33:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21108 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:33:14 -0800 Received: from relay4.UU.NET (relay4.UU.NET [192.48.96.14]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21101; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:33:12 -0800 Received: from vivid.autometric.com by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyimo16488; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:32:55 -0500 Received: from jester by vivid.autometric.com via SMTP (5.67a/920502.SGI) for @relay1.uu.net:jkh@freefall.cdrom.com id AA18462; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:32:54 -0500 Received: by jester (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @vivid.autometric.com:hackers@freefall.cdrom.com id AA02196; Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:32:51 -0500 From: "Brian Sletten" Message-Id: <9503241632.ZM2194@jester.autometric.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:32:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "P.S. [images]" (Mar 24, 10:48am) References: <15648.796070891@freefall.cdrom.com> Reply-To: bsletten@vivid.autometric.com X-Face: wFVAbzw-w(WA1~gdgaj^'c4X=P$j`q.EhNcjpxyW+:1qDq-ZCx[bvPi=^O$EC39vA5Vk,XC w2VGxhaJxS"^{ab.}G%vXO0E+sx--{<:#TsC@<5#W#PfVq{,i)^X{U7HkF;nI0"mj0fvb1(DvS@_H8 u`r3)}"3Af3vuz Subject: Re: P.S. [images] Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This image would also be put on coffee cups, one of which would be > sent to each major contributor. We know which liquid fuels most of > our contributions! :-) Why would you put beer in coffee cups?!?!? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Brian J. Sletten bsletten@autometric.com Ph. (703) 658-4178 (O) 2905 Wickersham Way, #202 (703) 207-9377 (H) Falls Church, VA 22042 "If you have to hate, hate gently" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:34:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21186 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:34:24 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.164.187.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21180; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:34:21 -0800 Received: (from jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.9) id OAA04397; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:35:16 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199503242135.OAA04397@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: Video stuff... To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:35:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <6370.796061101@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 08:05:01 am Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3307 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > Walking around Fry's in Palo Alto, Ca., saw a cool demostration of Jazz > > Jakarta put out by Jazz Multimedia located in Santa Clara, Ca. (408) ??? > > It has an mpeg option and the ability to display an NTSC signal on your > > VGA or just put out an NTSC siginal. The video output on the VGA looks almos > t > > as good as the display on the TV. Going to try to contact them tomorrow to se > e > > if they are Net friendly. > > Let us know! A number of people are actually working on video support > for X and FreeBSD (I have a Diamond Viper Pro Video card just waiting > for X Inside to support it with their video extension! :-) and this is > an area that's really hotting up. Much interest. When Accelerated-X 1.2 is finally released, we'll have support for the Matrox Comet and Matrox Marvel II with the XVideo extension. Other boards will be supported in the course of the year, but we wanted limited objectives (one board in two model types, with the existing X Consortium X Video extension as the API). Later releases will offer more function and feature enhancements. Hardware restrictions and the XVideo extension (or our interpretation of the restrictions, at least), mean that we won't be supporting the MPEG hardware initially. However, you will be able to take a live video feed from VCRs or cameras using RGB, S-video and composite inputs, size them using the on-board scaler and display them in an X Server at up to 800x600x24bpp or 1152x900x16bpp. The "best" resolution is probably 1024x768x16bpp with 60Hz refresh. This is all handled on the board. In fact, I crashed one OS while playing with the video feed and was momentarily puzzled by the failure of the mouse to move, or the keyboard to cause a response, while there was a live video window. I left it that way for fifteen minutes just to prove that you can do work, when the kernel is dead ;-) You can also grab images, using XvGetImage, but you can't feed the video stream to disk (you'd need around 60MB/s sustained, and the best that we can see on a PC is about 20MB/s). Of course, by the time that an MPEG compressor has been applied to the input stream, the data rate is down to acceptable bandwidth requirements. Current interest in this comes mostly from Medical Imaging applications, some from Manufacturing (they want pictures of everything they ship) and some from Law Enforcement for various purposes (smile please, you're on Accelerated-XVideo!). So far as the quality of the feed, hmm, I'll put up a file on the Web Server in a few minutes. Check out the main Web page under What's New for a link to the file, or look in ftp.xinside.com:/graphics . At the UniForum Show last week, you could clearly see individual hairs on people's heads, six feet away from the camera, with a "head and shoulders" framing. I think it is sharper than TV, but then I have a 14 inch, 10 year old TV, so I'm not exactly au fait with the latest TV technology ... Cheers, JeremyC. -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:35:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21236 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:35:23 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA21230 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:35:20 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:34:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503242023.AA10722@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 24, 95 01:23:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1021 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > There is a NetBSD port to the APX architecture. > > > > > > This is for the DEC AXP150. > > > > Actually, its not. Its for the 3000/[456789]00. The AXP150 is > > specifically not supported, and the 3000/300 series isn't either. > > > > The Linux port does work on this box, though. > > I just got this from someone intimate with the NetBSD/Alpha stuff. > > Apparently, the Maeda and PCI maxhines are not supported. > > So there is room for funded work... > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > I think a LITES/FreeBSD effort would be neat, then you could run the OSF1 server as wel and FreeBSD and NetBSD and other servers.. :) talking of such things.. I've been thinking of adding a switch to allow environment usage when interetting symbolic links.. (in namei/lookup) I see that LITES already has this.. what it the thought on this? I like the idea of /usr/$OS/bin etc. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:37:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21353 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:37:38 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21347; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:37:32 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA25646; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:41:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:41:41 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503242141.OAA25646@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "httpd as part of the system." (Mar 24, 12:44pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I *know* that these are both ports, I'm simply proposing that we raise > the status of both to "standard component" status. > > I also know that the bloatists will scream, but all I can offer in way > of defense is to say that this is a pretty inevitable part of the > software vs advancing customer expectations part of the field and you > all might as well get used to it. IFF we can get the all singing , all dancing installation software to break the system into more manageable chunks which are not necessary then I say go for. However, MANY (most) folks which run FreeBSD are not direct Internet connected, so these kinds of files are wasting space. We can always cater to the folks who *want* the stuff right now with packages. However, we can't make the distribution smaller if we add it to the 'standard' tree w/out a way to NOT install it. > We're hardly the only folks adding > features daily, and if anything we've been pretty restrained in > comparison to Microsoft, IBM and Novell! They don't make iyou install everything AND the kitchen sink unless you wnat it though. We force you to install the whole shebang w/no regards to whether or not it will fit on your machine. I would venture to guess that the standard machine being used today by the majority of FreeBSD users is a 486/[33|66] with 8MB memory, 15" monitor, and 100-200MB of disk. Probably most have a modem which is NOT used for Slip/PPP but is run under something like Seyon. The more *mandatory* SW we add to the tree that's useless to our general user makes it less likely they'll install FreeBSD, but instead go with Linux where they install what they want. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:49:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21840 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:49:59 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21833; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:49:44 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA05317; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:49:22 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503242149.NAA05317@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: P.S. [images] To: bsletten@vivid.autometric.com Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:49:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503241632.ZM2194@jester.autometric.com> from "Brian Sletten" at Mar 24, 95 04:32:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 511 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > This image would also be put on coffee cups, one of which would be > > sent to each major contributor. We know which liquid fuels most of > > our contributions! :-) > Why would you put beer in coffee cups?!?!? Because it's a lot safer than putting *HOT* coffee in beer mugs!!! , oops wrong stuff for that type of mug :-). :-) :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:55:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21888 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:55:32 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA21882; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:55:26 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA02797 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:49:08 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:49:07 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA00649; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:44:05 +0300 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, "Jordan K. Hubbard" References: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:44:09 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:44:04 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Lines: 29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1359 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we > supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. lynx version still under development, 2-3-7 isn't official version (but working for me), I just trace _latest_ version in ports. If we can live with this, OK. Lynx team is resistand about FreeBSD patches, I send all things to them several times with no response. Jordan, can you (as official FreeBSD speaker) contact with them? >I also know that the bloatists will scream, but all I can offer in way >of defense is to say that this is a pretty inevitable part of the >software vs advancing customer expectations part of the field and you >all might as well get used to it. We're hardly the only folks adding >features daily, and if anything we've been pretty restrained in >comparison to Microsoft, IBM and Novell! We definitely needs gmake in our gnu tree if we plan to pick up lynx and don't want to touch Makefiles without serious needs. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:56:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21940 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:56:50 -0800 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21934; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:56:41 -0800 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA10048; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:56:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA00171; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:56:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199503242156.NAA00171@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 12:44:09 PST." <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:56:36 -0800 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our >system in an effort to both: ... >1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber ... >2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we ... >I also know that the bloatists will scream, but all I can offer in way I would like to see a standard component called "Networking distribution" (or 'netdist'), which contains things like httpd, pidentd, gated, etc. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 13:57:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21972 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:57:10 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21965 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:57:05 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA05339; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:56:49 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503242156.NAA05339@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd) To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:56:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Mar 24, 95 01:34:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1697 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... > I think a LITES/FreeBSD effort would be neat, then you could run the OSF1 > server as wel and FreeBSD and NetBSD and other servers.. :) > > talking of such things.. > > I've been thinking of adding a switch to allow > environment usage when interetting symbolic links.. > (in namei/lookup) > I see that LITES already has this.. > what it the thought on this? > > I like the idea of > /usr/$OS/bin etc. This has come up on and off over the last 2 years, many of us would really like to see this. (I know Jordan and I are 2 that would!) There are several commercial implentations that do support this, and the best model, IMHO, that I have seen yet is Apollo's Aegis/Domain OS implementation. To go along with it you really want a more generalized logical name translation table so that you don't get environment variable name space pollution (though I have never seen this as a problem on Domain/OS). Let us not have all the discussion about file name space polution we have had in the past. I can prove this not to be an issue, and since julian said ``adding a switch to allow'' those that don't like it can turn it off! Apollo uses the scheme that ${somevar} translates into the value of the environment variable somevar if and only if it is defined. If it is *not* defined the value is left unchanged. This is an important part that is often forgotten about. You can also create read-only environment variable settings during the boot process so users don't screw them selves by chaning certain environment variables. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:00:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA22034 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:00:13 -0800 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA22028 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:00:08 -0800 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id QAA01102; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:57:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:57:58 -0500 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199503242157.QAA01102@snoopy.mv.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <20359.796079204@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: A "FreeBSD" Daemon Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> I think that, with a little work, the "Free" in "FreeBSD" Jordan> can either gain brand-name status or become synonymous Jordan> with a different connotation of "free", that meaning Jordan> openness (REAL openness, not the ersatz openness of most Jordan> OpenThis and OpenThat standards), freedom to develop it, Jordan> freedom to share the work with many external developers Jordan> which may constitute a serious part of your business Jordan> development resource, etc. So, maybe a name like "Freedom!BSD" could be a winner? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:06:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA22241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:06:52 -0800 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA22232 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:06:48 -0800 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA17549 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@FreeBSD.org); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:05:57 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199503242205.AA17549@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: Re: tgdb To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:05:55 +1000 (EST) Cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503241126.LAA00760@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 24, 95 11:26:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 572 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Hello, >> >> > Thanks, Amancio ! Turns out that I made tgdb_wish with BLT-1.7. So, >> > people using the package put together by Jordan beware. >> >> does that explain why i get "tgdb_wish: uid xxx: exited on signal 11" >> everytime i try to use that package? >> >> Steve Passe >> smp@clem.systemsix.com > >No, must likely you are using FreeBSD-2.0. I just grabbed all the >extensions required and build TkSteal and tgdb for my FreeBSD-2.0 box. I see that problem too -- ie it crashes on startup. Aren't these packages supposed to work on 2.0R? David From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:31:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA22949 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:31:11 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA22818 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:21:11 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15077; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:20:36 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id XAA05593 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:20:35 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA13826 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:17:32 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503242217.XAA13826@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:17:31 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503242156.NAA00171@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Mar 24, 95 01:56:36 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 426 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > > I would like to see a standard component called "Networking distribution" > (or 'netdist'), which contains things like httpd, pidentd, gated, etc. ^^^^^ I thought this one was encumbered? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:35:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23055 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:35:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23047; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:35:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:20:06 MST." <9503242120.AA11658@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:35:17 -0800 Message-ID: <23044.796084517@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't really recognize the distinction between a standard component > and a port... Huh. Well *I* sure do! It's the difference between being able to *count* on something from a standard script or body of documentation and not. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:39:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23212 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:39:03 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23198; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:38:53 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA11985; Fri, 24 Mar 95 15:32:43 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503242232.AA11985@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 15:32:43 MST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <23044.796084517@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 02:35:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I don't really recognize the distinction between a standard component > > and a port... > > Huh. Well *I* sure do! It's the difference between being able to *count* > The point is that "component" implies piecemeal installation anyway. For instance, the kernel rebuild dist is a "component". Componenting itself implies optional installation of the piece. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:45:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23560 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:45:36 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23554 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:45:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA17355 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:47:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199503242247.PAA17355@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:41:41 MST." <199503242141.OAA25646@trout.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:59 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > However, MANY (most) folks which run FreeBSD are not direct > Internet connected, so these kinds of files are wasting space. lynx/mosaic are appropriate for the new sgml/html based doc tree even without internet connection. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:49:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23642 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:49:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23633; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:49:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: jdc@xinside.com cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Video stuff... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:35:16 MST." <199503242135.OAA04397@crab.xinside.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:49:29 -0800 Message-ID: <23629.796085369@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > When Accelerated-X 1.2 is finally released, we'll have support for > the Matrox Comet and Matrox Marvel II with the XVideo extension. > Other boards will be supported in the course of the year, but we > wanted limited objectives (one board in two model types, with the > existing X Consortium X Video extension as the API). Later releases > will offer more function and feature enhancements. Can you perhaps say a little more about these boards? I'd like to have something good for 3D rendering (ala Matrox Impression) too, if possible, and I had thought up to now that I'd have to have 2 cards - the Impression and this Diamond board (or something else). If the Comet/Marvel can do BOTH, then my checkbook is ready and waiting - money no object! :-) > MPEG hardware initially. However, you will be able to take a live > video feed from VCRs or cameras using RGB, S-video and composite > inputs, size them using the on-board scaler and display them in an X > Server at up to 800x600x24bpp or 1152x900x16bpp. The "best" > resolution is probably 1024x768x16bpp with 60Hz refresh. That's essentially all I want anyway. In fact, if I can get this combo to work then you guys may very well have a _very_ strategic partnership come out of it. I'm not saying any more, except that I'm playing "point man" for a much larger (and richer) concern on this at the moment and am interested in any and all solutions. Maybe you and I should have another telephone conversation soon! :) > while there was a live video window. I left it that way for fifteen > minutes just to prove that you can do work, when the kernel is dead > ;-) :-) > You can also grab images, using XvGetImage, but you can't feed the > video stream to disk (you'd need around 60MB/s sustained, and the > best that we can see on a PC is about 20MB/s). Of course, by the That's also an acceptable constraint, at least for now. We just need to figure out a solution that will allow us to: 1. Show scalable video in a window. 2. Animate 3D objects at high speed using Reality Labs(tm) or something similar. If you've any suggestions, like I said, I'm more than willing to invest in a research platform. I've sort of backed off for the moment out of confusion over all the different video boards available! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:50:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23695 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:50:38 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23687; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:50:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:41:41 MST." <199503242141.OAA25646@trout.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:50:36 -0800 Message-ID: <23686.796085436@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We can always cater to the folks who *want* the stuff right now with > packages. However, we can't make the distribution smaller if we add it > to the 'standard' tree w/out a way to NOT install it. Already done. > They don't make iyou install everything AND the kitchen sink unless you > wnat it though. We force you to install the whole shebang w/no regards > to whether or not it will fit on your machine. Hey, Nate, have you installed a FreeBSD box lately? :-) We only "make" them install the bindist. Everything else is purely optional. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:54:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23789 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:54:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23778; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:54:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 13:34:44 PST." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:54:25 -0800 Message-ID: <23776.796085665@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been thinking of adding a switch to allow > environment usage when interetting symbolic links.. > (in namei/lookup) > I see that LITES already has this.. > what it the thought on this? Heh. You've just raised my favorite wish list item, which I drag out periodically to general jeers and hoots from the audience! :-) The main problem is getting access to the environment from the namei() code. getenv/putenv all manipulate a malloc'd region in the process context and there's not even a handle on it that's easy to get to from the system. You figure that out and the expanion should be trivial! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 14:56:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23835 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:56:26 -0800 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA23828 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:56:25 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA17188; Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:50:44 -0800 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id RAA25004; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:50:42 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id RAA06964; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:50:41 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:50:41 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: gj@FreeBSD.org Cc: fbsd%clem.systemsix.com@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com Subject: Re: tgdb In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary, the symptoms of the BLT-1.7 bug are, once you go into help, you can scroll, but if you select any of the menu buttons, you get a tcl error, and then tcl dies. I can duplicate it at will. Tgdb is otherwise useable. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:01:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA23950 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:01:31 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA23942; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:01:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 00:44:04 +0300." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:01:29 -0800 Message-ID: <23938.796086089@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Lynx team is resistand about FreeBSD patches, I send all things to > them several times with no response. > Jordan, can you (as official FreeBSD speaker) contact with them? Sure. You have any particular pointers I should follow? > We definitely needs gmake in our gnu tree if we plan to pick up lynx and > don't want to touch Makefiles without serious needs. I was actually considering bmaking it. I don't think we should go down the gmake road quite yet - that much contraversy surrounding the import would only hinder its progress, and I'm much more interested in providing the support than I am in debating the gmake vs bmake thing all over again! Jrodan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:02:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24008 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:02:30 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24001; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:02:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: davidg@Root.COM cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 13:56:36 PST." <199503242156.NAA00171@corbin.Root.COM> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:02:28 -0800 Message-ID: <24000.796086148@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to see a standard component called "Networking distribution" > (or 'netdist'), which contains things like httpd, pidentd, gated, etc. But you're also essentially stipulating that all such things become bmake'd and enter the main source tree, unless you've got some clever scheme for putting ports into our distributions now. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:04:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24081 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:04:25 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA24074; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:04:21 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id RAA13600; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:58:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:58:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: P.S. [images] To: bsletten@vivid.autometric.com cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503241632.ZM2194@jester.autometric.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Brian Sletten wrote: > > This image would also be put on coffee cups, one of which would be > > sent to each major contributor. We know which liquid fuels most of > > our contributions! :-) > Why would you put beer in coffee cups?!?!? bottles and cans get slippery. coffee cups have handles. like beer steins. 20 oz coffe cups, jordan? > > > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Brian J. Sletten > bsletten@autometric.com Ph. (703) 658-4178 (O) > 2905 Wickersham Way, #202 (703) 207-9377 (H) > Falls Church, VA 22042 > "If you have to hate, hate gently" > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:06:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24159 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:06:50 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA24153 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:06:48 -0800 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id SAA25434; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:06:10 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id SAA07076; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:06:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:06:07 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: David Dawes cc: Amancio Hasty , fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb In-Reply-To: <199503242205.AA17549@physics.su.oz.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, David Dawes wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> > Thanks, Amancio ! Turns out that I made tgdb_wish with BLT-1.7. So, > >> > people using the package put together by Jordan beware. > >> > >> does that explain why i get "tgdb_wish: uid xxx: exited on signal 11" > >> everytime i try to use that package? > >> > >> Steve Passe > >> smp@clem.systemsix.com > > > >No, must likely you are using FreeBSD-2.0. I just grabbed all the > >extensions required and build TkSteal and tgdb for my FreeBSD-2.0 box. > > I see that problem too -- ie it crashes on startup. Aren't these > packages supposed to work on 2.0R? > > David > If it crashes on startup, it's not the blt-1.7 problem, you have something else wrong. OK, wonder what it is? I do, and I'd like to know how you made your tgdb environment. Mind if I ask? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:12:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24360 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:12:50 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24353; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:12:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 15:32:43 MST." <9503242232.AA11985@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:12:49 -0800 Message-ID: <24352.796086769@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > I don't really recognize the distinction between a standard component > > > and a port... > > > > Huh. Well *I* sure do! It's the difference between being able to *count* > > > The point is that "component" implies piecemeal installation anyway. > > For instance, the kernel rebuild dist is a "component". > > Componenting itself implies optional installation of the piece. Ok, point well taken. I guess it's more of an ass-saving issue then though since we can always enjoin users who haven't loaded some component that they should do so when or if they complain about missing functionality. For some reason, the ports collection is still preceived by many as not "plug and play" enough and people don't react well to suggestions that they failed to load some port or another in response to a complaint. For example, I've had tons of complaints about gmake or bash not being "part of the system", even though both are trivially available as both ports and packages. Conversely, I've not received *one* complaint from someone who's man command didn't work because they failed to load the mandist. It may be a minor line in the sand from a technical viewpoint, but it seems to be a pretty major one to the users. Perhaps once the ports and packages are more obviously pointed out in the installation process, this problem will become less manifest, but I hesitate to rely on it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:30:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24664 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:30:14 -0800 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24658; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:30:12 -0800 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16496; Fri, 24 Mar 95 17:29:39 CST From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9503242329.AA16496@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:29:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 12:44:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4beta PL9] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 877 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Jordan, > I *know* that these are both ports, I'm simply proposing that we raise > the status of both to "standard component" status. I sorta agree - I find myself installing these packages constantly, too. I'd also like to see a prototype /var/spool/ftp area included, and perhaps wuftpd (I volunteer to engineer the former if need be)... > Other than screams of "bloat! bloat!", any comments? How about an "Advanced network services" option? Include things like httpd, gopher/d, archie, lynx, gated, et al. This way we would not be reducing the default functionality, but those of us who use FreeBSD as network service platforms would be quite thrilled. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:52:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24971 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:52:43 -0800 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA24965 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:52:41 -0800 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA26421 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:53:58 -0500 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199503242353.SAA26421@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: A "FreeBSD" Daemon (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:53:57 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 948 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think that, with a little work, the "Free" in "FreeBSD" can either > gain brand-name status or become synonymous with a different > connotation of "free", that meaning openness (REAL openness, not the > ersatz openness of most OpenThis and OpenThat standards), freedom to > develop it, freedom to share the work with many external developers > which may constitute a serious part of your business development > resource, etc. I would say this is the way to go with your visual logo as well. You want to convey the 'right' definition of "Free". Have the daemon leaving some broken shackles behind. The daemon unlocks his ankle shackle with a key that has "freebsd" written on it. The daemon has sawed through the bars of his jail cell and next to him you can see a cake with "Happy Birthday FreeBSD" written on it. You get the idea. Beaches, sailboats, and hot air baloons also connotate freedom. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:59:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25060 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:59:17 -0800 Received: from schizo.coe.montana.edu (schizo.coe.montana.edu [153.90.192.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA25054; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:59:16 -0800 Received: by schizo.coe.montana.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA21665; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:57:54 -0700 From: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) Message-Id: <9503241657.ZM21663@schizo.coe.montana.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:57:53 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard"'s message of Mar 24, 11:17 References: <17088.796072636@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mar 24, 11:17, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > Subject: Jordan's new status.. > project, which my USENET Man Friday, Peter da Silva, will be > posting to the net (thanks, Peter, for stepping forward with that!). This is something I've wanted to know for a long time. How many people is Peter really? I'm figuring 3 myself. 900 article/day posted, member of 1609 mailing lists, answers my email in about .018 seconds, instantly follows up to anything and everything of import in blinding speed. -- Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager (406) 994-4780 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717 osyjm@cs.montana.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 15:59:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25075 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:59:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24880; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:40:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: announce@freefall.cdrom.com cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Announcing the March 22nd, 1995 snapshot of FreeBSD! Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:40:57 -0800 Message-ID: <24879.796088457@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well folks, it's snapshot time again.. A little late, but what the heck. This is a full FreeBSD distribution, like all previous snapshots, and incorporates a LOT of very important enhancements to the system. While I certainly woulnd't go so far as to say that this is 2.1 quality yet (for one thing, the installation system is still the old 2.0 stuff), it's certainly a major improvement over 2.0 both in general reliability and feature set. I'd recommend that anyone doing a new system installation, or having any sorts of problems with their old one (including weird or random system failures, sig 10's and sig 11's, etc), start with this snapshot. USUAL DISCLAIMER: This is a SNAPSHOT, not a release. This means that we didn't take weeks to test it and your mileage may therefore vary. While we clearly take every effort to ensure that snapshots are of the highest possible quality, we don't spent weeks of testing on each one (as we plan to do with 2.1 itself) and therefore beg your indulgence in any (hopefully small) errors you may encounter. If you're looking for a fully production quality release then don't run these snapshots! Wait for 2.1R! Thanks! >From the README: ---- Latest snapshot from March 22nd, 1995. WHATS NEW [not a complete list] ------------------------------- o NIS (YP) server/client support for FreeBSD much improved. o A number of panic bugs fixed. o Merged VM/Buffer cache much improved - hopefully last of the bugs fixed! o Faster wd.c driver o Driver for Intel EtherExpress card o Driver for Matsushita CDROM ("Sound blaster" CDROM) o Better disk access algorithms ("clustering"). o PCI support much improved. Interrupt sharing now works. o Driver for Adaptec 294x much improved o Boot -c writeback/save program (customized info saved across reboots) o Soundcard support greatly cleaned up o Prototype support for ISDN o Support for the Creative Labs Video Spigot(tm) video card. o FDDI network interface support (DEC cards). o TCP/IP Firewall code much improved. o GCC 2.6.3 integrated PROBLEMS -------- If you want to run programs linked under 2.0, you will need the file libgcc.so.261.0 too (which you'll find in this directory). Install it in /usr/lib. Comments to: current@freebsd.org. Bugs to: bugs@freebsd.org use the "send-pr" command To subscribe to the "current", "hackers", "questions" or any of the other FreeBSD mailing lists, send mail to "majordomo@freebsd.org" and say "help" somewhere in the text of your message. For other general FreeBSD information, send mail to "info@freebsd.org" or feed your WEB browser the URL: http://www.freebsd.org/ Please identify the version of this snapshot (950322-SNAP) as what you're running when reporting problems or making comments. Thanks! Poul-Henning --- I'd also like to thank, in addition to Poul-Henning who put all this together (if it fails miserably, you know who to blame :-): David Greenman & John Dyson for putting in an inhuman amount of work stress-testing the system and finding many obscure bugs, some of which have been with us since before 2.0R. Without them, this release would not be much to talk about. Frank Durda IV, who contributed the long-awaited Matsushita/Panasonic ("Sound blaster") CDROM support. Steven Wallace, who took the greatly confusing sound driver code and turned it into something that actually makes some degree of sense in the BSD paradigm (e.g. sound configuration is now both a LOT easier and a LOT more understandable!). See the new /sys/i386/conf/LINT file. Poul-Henning's wife, Rita, who somehow puts up with a husband who spends more time with his "mistress" than is generally considered appropriate.. :-) Everyone else who contributed in thousands of ways to the evolving product that we call FreeBSD. If your name wasn't mentioned here then it has far more to do with my lousy memory than the value of your contribution! I apologise in advance to anyone who deserved special recognition and didn't get it. I'll mention you TWICE next time! :-) Thank you for your attention, and we certainly hope you enjoy this snapshot of FreeBSD! Problems, as always, to bugs@FreeBSD.org. Jordan for the FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:01:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25134 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:01:13 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25124; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:01:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:57:53 MST." <9503241657.ZM21663@schizo.coe.montana.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:01:12 -0800 Message-ID: <25123.796089672@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How many people is Peter really? I'm figuring 3 myself. 900 article/day > posted, member of 1609 mailing lists, answers my email in about .018 seconds, > instantly follows up to anything and everything of import in blinding speed. Jaye, Peter and I are both perl scripts - didn't you know? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:07:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25263 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:17 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25257; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:15 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA15766; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:11 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503250007.QAA15766@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. To: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503241657.ZM21663@schizo.coe.montana.edu> from "Jaye Mathisen" at Mar 24, 95 04:57:53 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 797 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mar 24, 11:17, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > Subject: Jordan's new status.. > > project, which my USENET Man Friday, Peter da Silva, will be > > posting to the net (thanks, Peter, for stepping forward with that!). > > This is something I've wanted to know for a long time. > > How many people is Peter really? I'm figuring 3 myself. 900 article/day > posted, member of 1609 mailing lists, answers my email in about .018 seconds, > instantly follows up to anything and everything of import in blinding speed. I thought Peter was the alias The Cabal uses in its attepts to restore sanity to USEnet... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:07:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25288 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:51 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25282; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:50 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA15776; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:48 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503250007.QAA15776@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:07:48 -0800 (PST) Cc: osyjm@schizo.coe.montana.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <25123.796089672@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 04:01:12 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 547 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How many people is Peter really? I'm figuring 3 myself. 900 article/day > > posted, member of 1609 mailing lists, answers my email in about .018 seconds, > > instantly follows up to anything and everything of import in blinding speed. > > Jaye, > > Peter and I are both perl scripts - didn't you know? :-) > Peter is to fast and reliable to be Perl... :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:13:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25516 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:13:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25508; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:13:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 17:29:38 CST." <9503242329.AA16496@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:13:54 -0800 Message-ID: <25507.796090434@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How about an "Advanced network services" option? Include things like > httpd, gopher/d, archie, lynx, gated, et al. This way we would not be > reducing the default functionality, but those of us who use FreeBSD as > network service platforms would be quite thrilled. That is, in fact, almost certainly the way we'll go. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:17:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25598 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:17:20 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25591; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:17:14 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA23527 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:03:18 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 25 Mar 95 03:03:17 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA01674; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:49:25 +0300 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com References: <23938.796086089@freefall.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <23938.796086089@freefall.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:01:29 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:49:25 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Lines: 31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1332 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <23938.796086089@freefall.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >> Lynx team is resistand about FreeBSD patches, I send all things to >> them several times with no response. >> Jordan, can you (as official FreeBSD speaker) contact with them? >Sure. You have any particular pointers I should follow? lynx-help@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu lynx-bug@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu lynx-dev@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu >> We definitely needs gmake in our gnu tree if we plan to pick up lynx and >> don't want to touch Makefiles without serious needs. >I was actually considering bmaking it. I don't think we should go >down the gmake road quite yet - that much contraversy surrounding the >import would only hinder its progress, and I'm much more interested >in providing the support than I am in debating the gmake vs bmake thing >all over again! OK, it is just different strategy: (1) is bmake all, (2) is don't touch all, when possible. I don't decide which one is better. I think, we can add gmake to gnu tree, but have all stuff bmaked :-) -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:25:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25740 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:25:56 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25443; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:12:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: announce@freefall.cdrom.com cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: 950322-SNAP locations. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:12:30 -0800 Message-ID: <25442.796090350@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Oh, and just in case some of you haven't worked it out already: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.0-950322-SNAP/ ftp://freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.0-950322-SNAP/ Yes, that second URL isn't a typo - it points to freefall. Please get the distribution first and foremost from ftp.freebsd.org, however, as WC's T1 line is already overloaded as it is. It will also no doubt be available on the various mirror sites as soon as it percolates across. Positive feedback on the snapshot would also be welcome! We don't *just* want to hear about the bugs! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:33:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25880 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:33:04 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25874; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:33:01 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA25189 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:15:20 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 25 Mar 95 03:15:19 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA01758; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:13:34 +0300 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com References: <24352.796086769@freefall.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <24352.796086769@freefall.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:12:49 -0800 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:13:34 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Lines: 36 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1747 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <24352.796086769@freefall.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >For example, I've had tons of complaints about gmake or bash not being >"part of the system", even though both are trivially available as both >ports and packages. Conversely, I've not received *one* complaint >from someone who's man command didn't work because they failed to load >the mandist. It may be a minor line in the sand from a technical >viewpoint, but it seems to be a pretty major one to the users. >Perhaps once the ports and packages are more obviously pointed out >in the installation process, this problem will become less manifest, >but I hesitate to rely on it. I have some experience in talking with users too (not especially about FreeBSD) and think, that installation must be MAXIMAL. All third-party working stuff must be in distribution, independent of generally needed or not. Users becames very happy in this case. I think, we need to write /usr/local/bin/* and all X stuff to base distribution too. Those system admins who don't want anything can simple remove it after install. I know one argument against it: user can't install FreeBSD on small disk, but from real life I know, that buying BIG disk for new OS give user less upset than missing anything in system. Spend money to new hardware he got something which he don't have, so he becomes more powerful, but when he miss something, he is really sick. Long live Maximal Installation! -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 16:43:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26050 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:43:21 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA26044; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:43:20 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12251; Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:26:38 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503242326.AA12251@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:26:37 MST Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <24352.796086769@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 03:12:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, point well taken. I guess it's more of an ass-saving issue then > though since we can always enjoin users who haven't loaded some > component that they should do so when or if they complain about > missing functionality. For some reason, the ports collection is still > preceived by many as not "plug and play" enough and people don't react > well to suggestions that they failed to load some port or another in > response to a complaint. Perhaps a political renaming of ports is in order to better imply what you've said here. The main issue is one of installation tools (again). Perhaps "optional software" during the main install? Or the ability to rerun the main install by typing "install", but then only being given a list of uninstalled pieces that you can install? Sort of a menu for "pkgadd" that knows what packages are available that has the same look-n-feel as the install and starts when you type "install" and pretends to have installed other pieces, like "base OS" but refuses to uninstall them? Just thinking out loud... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:22:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26954 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:22:19 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA26948 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:22:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02342; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:17:01 GMT Message-Id: <199503241717.RAA02342@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: David Dawes cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:05:55 +1000." <199503242205.AA17549@physics.su.oz.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:16:59 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >No, must likely you are using FreeBSD-2.0. I just grabbed all the > >extensions required and build TkSteal and tgdb for my FreeBSD-2.0 box. > > I see that problem too -- ie it crashes on startup. Aren't these > packages supposed to work on 2.0R? > > David > Apparently, tgdb compiled with FreeBSD-2.0-current will not work with FreeBSD-2.0-Release. I can put my tgdb for FreeBSD-2.0-Release on my ftp site if people want to. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:28:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27106 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:28:42 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27100; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:28:37 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02360; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:23:51 GMT Message-Id: <199503241723.RAA02360@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 12:44:09 PST." <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:23:49 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our > system in an effort to both: > > A) Improve the infrastructure that our docs team can rely on. > B) Make FreeBSD a better "out of box" Internet solution. > > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > (I think it's the CERN httpd). > > 2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we > supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:34:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27367 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:34:30 -0800 Received: from rivers.oscs.montana.edu (rivers.oscs.montana.edu [192.31.215.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA27348; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:34:27 -0800 Received: by rivers.oscs.montana.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA21726; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:34:25 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:34:24 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Boerner To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Install... Was: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: <199503242141.OAA25646@trout.sri.MT.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would really like to see the setup program come up with a list of default configs. Something like: 1) Developers Edition - Everything and the kitchen sink. 2) Minimal Install - Just a simple character based package without the source tree. etc. 4) Network Surfers - The Minimal Install w/ X. Designed for people on a network. Automagically setting up Netscape & httpd. 5) Custom - Where a list of ALL of the packages are listed and the user can pick and choose which to install. If they don't know what something is, they should be allowed to press F1 and obtain a help screen telling WHAT this something is and HOW it is useful. 6) Uninstall - The ability to remove any of the above listed packages. Since everything would be installed using pkg_add this would be simple :-). Just my two cents worth... I would not mind working on this with someone if they would like help. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:35:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27415 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:35:01 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27404; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:34:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02385; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:30:00 GMT Message-Id: <199503241730.RAA02385@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: jdc@xinside.com cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Video stuff... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:35:16 MST." <199503242135.OAA04397@crab.xinside.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:29:58 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Are the documents and/or sample implementation for the XVideo extension available anywhere? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:43:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27609 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:43:27 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27603 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:43:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02401; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:38:23 GMT Message-Id: <199503241738.RAA02401@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:34:44 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:38:21 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think a LITES/FreeBSD effort would be neat, then you could run the OSF1 > server as wel and FreeBSD and NetBSD and other servers.. :) > > talking of such things.. > > I've been thinking of adding a switch to allow > environment usage when interetting symbolic links.. > (in namei/lookup) > I see that LITES already has this.. > what it the thought on this? > > I like the idea of > /usr/$OS/bin etc. > > julian > Well, Lites is slow and it needs work. As for the binary compatibility for other OSes, NetBSD has proven that they can do that without running Mach. Now if there is something else radically different which lites may offer then I think is a good idea. Why am I saying this? Well, we have gone thru several OS branches since the initial release of 386BSD. It will be nice to settle on one to exploit the hell out of the environment, for instance VR, Video, games, word processors, etc... If we keep changing our OS platform, it makes it kind of though to attract commercial products. On my opinion, the best thing that Mach has going for it is the current SMP work being done. Amancio, who once hacked his brains out on FreeBSD-1.1.5 for months without a single crash.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:44:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27628 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:44:44 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27622 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:44:38 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA05793; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:44:07 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503250144.RAA05793@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: P.S. [images] To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:44:07 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Mar 24, 95 05:58:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 724 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Brian Sletten wrote: > > > > This image would also be put on coffee cups, one of which would be > > > sent to each major contributor. We know which liquid fuels most of > > > our contributions! :-) > > Why would you put beer in coffee cups?!?!? > > bottles and cans get slippery. coffee cups have handles. > like beer steins. > > 20 oz coffe cups, jordan? Gee, somehow I don't think that was the technique my doctor had in mind when he said I *must* get my coffee consumption below 5 cups a day! But it works for me!!!! :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:45:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27654 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:45:37 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.164.187.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27645; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:45:32 -0800 Received: (from jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.9) id SAA05172; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:46:23 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199503250146.SAA05172@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: Video stuff... To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:46:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <23629.796085369@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 02:49:29 pm Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4870 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > When Accelerated-X 1.2 is finally released, we'll have support for > > the Matrox Comet and Matrox Marvel II with the XVideo extension. > > Other boards will be supported in the course of the year, but we > > wanted limited objectives (one board in two model types, with the > > existing X Consortium X Video extension as the API). Later releases > > will offer more function and feature enhancements. > > Can you perhaps say a little more about these boards? I'd like to > have something good for 3D rendering (ala Matrox Impression) too, if > possible, and I had thought up to now that I'd have to have 2 cards - > the Impression and this Diamond board (or something else). If the > Comet/Marvel can do BOTH, then my checkbook is ready and waiting - > money no object! :-) The Comet is a cut-down Marvel II. I'll describe the Marvel II and then describe what's left out of the Comet. Video Input via RGB, S-Video or Composite to a 9-pin D type connector. Philips Video chips & Tseng ET4000/V33 Display via Tseng ET4000/W32p with STG1702 RAMDAC, 2MB RAM, MPEG by C Cubed Audio by TI (TMXE320AV) The Comet doesn't have the Audio and MPEG sections. The boards are identical, differing only in component count. *LONG* PCI boards may interfere with fan or cooling fins on the Pentium. We can present a normal speed ET4000/W32p server (last time I benchmarked these chips, we hit between 150,000 and 200,000 xStones, I think), up to 1152x900x16bpp or 800x600x24bpp. We can select among the input channels (3), scale the image and permit a freeze and XvGetImage. There are controls for automatic gain control enable/disable, gain, clamping, hue, saturation, brightness, sharpness. On the Marvel II, we also control the audio signal, input can be seected from left, right or both channels, with standard audio controls, e.g volume, etc. The ET4000/W32p is fine for our software accelerated PEX, but is obviously going to be much slower than dedicated 3d hardware. However, we don't have 3d hardware acceleration (yet), so this issue is irrelevant for a while longer. > > MPEG hardware initially. However, you will be able to take a live > > video feed from VCRs or cameras using RGB, S-video and composite > > inputs, size them using the on-board scaler and display them in an X > > Server at up to 800x600x24bpp or 1152x900x16bpp. The "best" > > resolution is probably 1024x768x16bpp with 60Hz refresh. > > That's essentially all I want anyway. In fact, if I can get this > combo to work then you guys may very well have a _very_ strategic > partnership come out of it. I'm not saying any more, except that I'm > playing "point man" for a much larger (and richer) concern on this at > the moment and am interested in any and all solutions. Maybe you > and I should have another telephone conversation soon! :) Call me... I'm babysitting tonight, so sometime after 8pm Mountain Time would be best! > > You can also grab images, using XvGetImage, but you can't feed the > > video stream to disk (you'd need around 60MB/s sustained, and the > > best that we can see on a PC is about 20MB/s). Of course, by the > > That's also an acceptable constraint, at least for now. We just need > to figure out a solution that will allow us to: > > 1. Show scalable video in a window. Can do. > 2. Animate 3D objects at high speed using Reality Labs(tm) or something > similar. Doug? What's an ET4000/W32p like for you folks? Our software accelerated PEX is really machine limited, rather than display bandwidth limited, so an Imagine 128 currently runs insignificantly faster than the ET4000/W32p. I'd expect the same of Reality Labs' product, until 3D h/w acceleration is in place. > If you've any suggestions, like I said, I'm more than willing to invest > in a research platform. I've sort of backed off for the moment out of > confusion over all the different video boards available! :-) We picked the Matrox as it was the first board that Thomas Roell thought was worth the effort. The other boards have headed for the anonymity of the back of the closet ;-) We've not taken a serious look at the Diamond boards yet, but the 9130 video chip leads us to suspect that the Matrox still has the edge in display technology. I suppose that we'll all find out later this year, eh? There is, as usual, new stuff coming along, about which we are foresworn to secrecy... but watch for new players and for current players to have some surprising turns of speed and a new focus on 3D... Cheers, JeremyC. -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 17:47:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27688 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:47:53 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.164.187.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27682; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:47:50 -0800 Received: (from jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.9) id SAA05190; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:48:44 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199503250148.SAA05190@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: Video stuff... To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:48:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: jdc@xinside.com, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503241730.RAA02385@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 24, 95 05:29:58 pm Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 575 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: > Are the documents and/or sample implementation for the XVideo > extension available anywhere? ftp.x.org gatekeeper.dec.com I have copied the XV docs to ftp.xinside.com:/accelx/1.2/beta/xv-* You really need the libs and applets, too. Cheers, JeremyC. -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 18:05:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27830 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:05:33 -0800 Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27812 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:04:39 -0800 Received: from [192.245.33.12] by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id VAA18447; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:30:21 -0500 X-Sender: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:05:03 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry writes: > >Perhaps a political renaming of ports is in order to better imply >what you've said here. > >The main issue is one of installation tools (again). > >Perhaps "optional software" during the main install? At least during "main install," yes. > >Or the ability to rerun the main install by typing "install", but then >only being given a list of uninstalled pieces that you can install? What about upgrades of already-installed packages? Or if the sysadmin lost/deleted the /var/db/pkg directory? Systems crash sometimes, and things get lost (but not FreeBSD, of course ;) How can you be *sure* that a piece is installed or not? > >Sort of a menu for "pkgadd" that knows what packages are available >that has the same look-n-feel as the install and starts when you >type "install" and pretends to have installed other pieces, like >"base OS" but refuses to uninstall them? > >Just thinking out loud... > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. The sysadmin should be able to install any of the available packages at any time- not just during "main install." It would be bogus to require a complete installation of the entire system if he/she forgot to include a package/port/whatever_you_pc_name_for_a_port_is. Question: Should there be the concept of meta-packages? Ones which are just a collection of other packages, that is. If this was done, then there could be the 'super network' meta pack, and the 'security' meta pack, etc. Or should there just be some sort of menu listing each package individually, and let the sysadmin select them out? How about a combination of the two, where the contents of the meta-package are displayed, and the sysadmin has the option to install anything/everything in the group? Does anyone actually like the 'inst' installer used by SGI? Maybe that would be a good format to start with. (Personally, I think it serves its purpose, but it is time consuming and butt-ugly. How many 'more's do you have to do to make sure you've got it right?) I'll go spouting my mouth off somewhere else now... -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 18:07:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27856 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:07:41 -0800 Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27840 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:06:57 -0800 Received: from [192.245.33.12] by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id VAA18465; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:33:05 -0500 X-Sender: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:07:47 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Subject: Re: Video stuff... Cc: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Are the documents and/or sample implementation for the XVideo >extension available anywhere? > >Amancio Take a look at the xv2r2 stuff on sunsite.unc.edu in the X11 contrib directory. This includes a (large) PostScript document describing the functions. If you can't find it, email me and I'll put it up for FTP from here. -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 18:11:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27961 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:11:30 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27955 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:11:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02716; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:04:25 GMT Message-Id: <199503241804.SAA02716@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Chuck Robey cc: David Dawes , fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tgdb In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:06:07 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:04:21 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just placed tgdb_wish in ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty/ tgdb_wish-2.0.gz This version will work with FreeBSD-2.0 well at least it works on my system which is currently running FreeBSD-2.0 and tgdb_wish is linked statically. Have fun, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 18:47:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28723 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:47:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28716; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:47:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 16:26:37 MST." <9503242326.AA12251@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:47:33 -0800 Message-ID: <28715.796099653@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps "optional software" during the main install? Doing it. > Or the ability to rerun the main install by typing "install", but then > only being given a list of uninstalled pieces that you can install? Doing it! :-) > Sort of a menu for "pkgadd" that knows what packages are available > that has the same look-n-feel as the install and starts when you > type "install" and pretends to have installed other pieces, like > "base OS" but refuses to uninstall them? Done it. pkg_manage. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 18:49:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28769 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:49:37 -0800 Received: from linus.demon.co.uk (linus.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.220]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA28751 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:49:30 -0800 Received: (from mark@localhost) by linus.demon.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA05369; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:46:46 GMT Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:46:46 GMT From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <199503250246.CAA05369@linus.demon.co.uk> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article you write: >> How about an "Advanced network services" option? Include things like >> httpd, gopher/d, archie, lynx, gated, et al. This way we would not be >> reducing the default functionality, but those of us who use FreeBSD as >> network service platforms would be quite thrilled. > >That is, in fact, almost certainly the way we'll go. Perhaps it would be worth packaging "client" and "server" stuff separately? As a dial-up 'netter, I don't have much use for httpd/gopherd/gated and friends, but ftptool and the likes are essential! (A "graphical client" package could also include a script to ncftp and install Netscape, kind of like OS/2 Warp has an icon which goes and fetches their Web browser.) Mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 18:50:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28798 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:50:29 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28791; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:50:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 17:23:49 GMT." <199503241723.RAA02360@star-gate.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:50:26 -0800 Message-ID: <28790.796099826@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) X11 based tools should actually be minimized, not maximized, in the default system configuration until such time that X is actually a standard part of the system itself. If and when that time comes, we can throw open the gates a little wider, but for now your suggestion of exmh would require the importation of FOUR different packages: tk, tcl, mh, X11R6. I'll expect the bmaked versions of all of these from you in the morning.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 19:06:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29162 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:06:38 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA29156; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:06:34 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA03072; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:01:32 GMT Message-Id: <199503241901.TAA03072@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: jdc@xinside.com cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Video stuff... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:46:22 MST." <199503250146.SAA05172@crab.xinside.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:01:30 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > > When Accelerated-X 1.2 is finally released, we'll have support for > > > the Matrox Comet and Matrox Marvel II with the XVideo extension. > > > Other boards will be supported in the course of the year, but we > > > wanted limited objectives (one board in two model types, with the > > > existing X Consortium X Video extension as the API). Later releases > > > will offer more function and feature enhancements. > > > > Can you perhaps say a little more about these boards? I'd like to > Drool, drool ... How much is the Marvel II and your Accelerated-X 1.2 when is released :) Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 19:22:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29633 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:22:02 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA29625; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:21:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA03181; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:17:08 GMT Message-Id: <199503241917.TAA03181@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 18:50:26 PST." <28790.796099826@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:17:05 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) > > X11 based tools should actually be minimized, not maximized, in the > default system configuration until such time that X is actually a > standard part of the system itself. If and when that time comes, > we can throw open the gates a little wider, but for now your suggestion > of exmh would require the importation of FOUR different packages: > > tk, tcl, mh, X11R6. > > I'll expect the bmaked versions of all of these from you in the morning.. :-) > > Jordan > Oh, my I feel that I am actually talking back in my goold old days at DEC (not going to say how long ago :) ). I really think , that we need a fine graphic oriented mail system. Not so much for people like you but for newbies. As for the bmake requirement if it keeps getting on the way of including software into the system because people outright don't feel like making the silly conversion then bmake should be extended to support other format as well. In other words, the System should be working for you and not the other way round. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 20:04:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00514 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:04:54 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA00508; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:04:51 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA00504 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:37:07 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA03731; 24 Mar 95 19:50:38 CST (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03728; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:50:37 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503250150.TAA03728@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:50:37 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <17088.796072636@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 11:17:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 258 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'll also start releasing frequent "progress reports" for the > project, which my USENET Man Friday, Peter da Silva, will be > posting to the net (thanks, Peter, for stepping forward with that!). UGH. You-um just makum sure you-um tag 'em right! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 20:08:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00589 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:08:10 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA00582; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:08:07 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA00516 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:37:28 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA03794; 24 Mar 95 19:58:20 CST (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03791; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:58:19 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503250158.TAA03791@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 19:58:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 12:44:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 755 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > (I think it's the CERN httpd). CERN, if only because you can run it as a proxy. > 2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we > supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. Mosaic requires Motif :-<. Speaking of which, can soneone gen me up a copy of Mosaic 2.5 for 1.1.5.1 with Motif statically linked? > I also know that the bloatists will scream, To hell with 'em, this is the *best* way to get good online docs. Time for me to get into cgi-bin and knock out a lynx/mosaic interface to 'man'... I've been hacking a lot on that stuff lately... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 20:08:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00621 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:08:22 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA00614; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:08:19 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA00526 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:43:15 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA06520; 24 Mar 95 21:42:02 CST (Fri) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA06517; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:42:02 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503250342.VAA06517@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:42:02 -0600 (CST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9503242329.AA16496@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Mar 24, 95 05:29:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 332 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'd also like to see a prototype /var/spool/ftp area included, and perhaps > wuftpd (I volunteer to engineer the former if need be)... GIven that ftpd does a reasonable job already, there's no reason to add wu-ftpd. Remember, each of these will have to be manually updated as new releases and patches come out if they're bmaked. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 20:30:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00990 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:30:21 -0800 Received: from catfish.dataplex.net ([199.183.109.243]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA00984 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:30:17 -0800 Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by catfish.dataplex.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA23969; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:30:15 -0600 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:30:16 -0600 To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Cc: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" writes: >I have some experience in talking with users too (not especially >about FreeBSD) and think, that installation must be MAXIMAL. >All third-party working stuff must be in distribution, >independent of generally needed or not. Users becames very >happy in this case. I think, we need to write /usr/local/bin/* >and all X stuff to base distribution too. > >Those system admins who don't want anything can simple remove it >after install. I know one argument against it: user can't install >FreeBSD on small disk, but from real life I know, that buying >BIG disk for new OS give user less upset than missing anything >in system. Spend money to new hardware he got something which he don't >have, so he becomes more powerful, but when he miss something, >he is really sick. > >Long live Maximal Installation! This totally ignores the user that must use either a slow link or floppies to get a system up. For them, a small usable system which can be fleshed out over time is important. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 20:36:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01451 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:36:47 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01441 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:36:46 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA16451; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:36:41 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503250436.UAA16451@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:36:40 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, ache@astral.msk.su In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Mar 24, 95 10:30:16 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 747 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" writes: > > >I have some experience in talking with users too (not especially > >about FreeBSD) and think, that installation must be MAXIMAL. > >All third-party working stuff must be in distribution, > > [...] > > > >Long live Maximal Installation! > > This totally ignores the user that must use either a slow link or floppies > to get a system up. For them, a small usable system which can be fleshed > out over time is important. > Uhm, Richard, I belive that a smiley was implied by Andrey's message... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 20:54:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA03255 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:54:41 -0800 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA03244; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:54:39 -0800 Received: from channel.eng.umd.edu (channel.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.186]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id XAA01771; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:54:37 -0500 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by channel.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id XAA06280; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:55:15 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:55:15 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Peter da Silva cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: <199503250158.TAA03791@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > > (I think it's the CERN httpd). > > CERN, if only because you can run it as a proxy. > > > 2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we > > supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. > > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > Speaking of which, can soneone gen me up a copy of Mosaic 2.5 for 1.1.5.1 > with Motif statically linked? > > > I also know that the bloatists will scream, > > To hell with 'em, this is the *best* way to get good online docs. Time for > me to get into cgi-bin and knock out a lynx/mosaic interface to 'man'... > I've been hacking a lot on that stuff lately... > A version of Mosaic 2.5 that has a -term flag? Would sure be appreciated... I have one for 1.1.5.1, but that machine is going away, soon. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 21:21:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA05648 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:21:56 -0800 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA05642 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:21:52 -0800 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA17379 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:17:35 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 25 Mar 95 08:17:34 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA00312; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:14:45 +0300 To: Poul-Henning Kamp , Richard Wackerbarth Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com References: <199503250436.UAA16451@ref.tfs.com> In-Reply-To: <199503250436.UAA16451@ref.tfs.com>; from Poul-Henning Kamp at Fri, 24 Mar 1995 20:36:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:14:44 +0300 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Lines: 26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 999 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199503250436.UAA16451@ref.tfs.com> Poul-Henning Kamp writes: >> "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" writes: >> >> >I have some experience in talking with users too (not especially >> >about FreeBSD) and think, that installation must be MAXIMAL. >> >All third-party working stuff must be in distribution, >> > [...] >> > >> >Long live Maximal Installation! >> >> This totally ignores the user that must use either a slow link or floppies >> to get a system up. For them, a small usable system which can be fleshed >> out over time is important. >> >Uhm, Richard, I belive that a smiley was implied by Andrey's message... Right guess, I often forget to add it... :-) -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 22:20:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA07482 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:20:17 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07456; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:20:00 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA02875; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:19:51 +0200 Message-Id: <199503250619.IAA02875@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The BSD prayer. Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:19:51 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How many people do you think this would offend if it was hidden away in corner in one of the releases? > Some corrections: I like them! > > Our OS, > > Which art on disk, > > FreeBSD be thy name, > > Thy release come, > > Thy CD be done, > > In ftp://ftp.freebsd.org as it is in Freefall, > > Give us each day our daily CTMs, > > And forgive us our hacking, > > As we forgive those who hack against us. > > Lead us not into Windoze, > > But deliver us from Linux, > > For thine is the CPU, > > The Disk and the Memory, > > (until the next release) > > Amen. > > Other than that, perfect! :-) Hey, thanks! M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 22:23:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA07576 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:23:10 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07566; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:23:05 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA26620; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:27:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:27:14 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503250627.XAA26620@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: httpd as part of the system." (Mar 24, 2:50pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > We can always cater to the folks who *want* the stuff right now with > > packages. However, we can't make the distribution smaller if we add it > > to the 'standard' tree w/out a way to NOT install it. > > Already done. Cool. > Hey, Nate, have you installed a FreeBSD box lately? :-) Obviously not. The last 'install' I did was 2.0R. Everything since then has been incremental updates from -current. > We only "make" them install the bindist. Everything else is purely > optional. The *bindist* is still a monster, and you're proposing that we add two more large binaries to it. We need to break up the bindist into smaller more managable pieces ala Linux, SCO, Unixware, etc... Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 22:24:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA07652 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:24:20 -0800 Received: from crab.xinside.com (crab.xinside.com [199.164.187.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07646 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:24:18 -0800 Received: (from jdc@localhost) by crab.xinside.com (8.6.8/8.6.9) id XAA05800; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:25:17 -0700 From: Jeremy Chatfield Message-Id: <199503250625.XAA05800@crab.xinside.com> Subject: Re: Video stuff... To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:25:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503241901.TAA03072@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 24, 95 07:01:30 pm Organization: X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Phone: +1(303)470-5302 Reply-To: jdc@xinside.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2273 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: > > > Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > > > > > > When Accelerated-X 1.2 is finally released, we'll have support for > > > > the Matrox Comet and Matrox Marvel II with the XVideo extension. > > > > Other boards will be supported in the course of the year, but we > > > > wanted limited objectives (one board in two model types, with the > > > > existing X Consortium X Video extension as the API). Later releases > > > > will offer more function and feature enhancements. > > > > > > Can you perhaps say a little more about these boards? I'd like to > > > > Drool, drool ... > > How much is the Marvel II and your Accelerated-X 1.2 when is released :) I think that the Marvel II is under $1,000, but I have no real idea. Hmm, the only phone numbers that I have are for Matrox Electronics engineering and support folk. I have lots of numbers for Matrox Graphics, but that doesn't really help. I'll find out, probably on Monday. Accelerated-X Release 1.1 for FreeBSD is currently $99.50. Existing users may upgrade for the cost of shipping & handling rounded to whatever number Sales thinks is the right boundary (probably to next highest $5 boundary, if I know Sales staff at all). So, somewhere in the $5 to $15 region, I guess. Final price has not been announced, I think. It'll be somewhere in the range of current prices ($199 for commercial UNIX systems like SCO, ISC, Solaris, etc and $99.50 for Linux and FreeBSD promos). Extensions include: Standard-PEX (PEX 5.1 with Gouraud shading, and lots of bug fixes and performance enhancement) $100 Standard-XIE $100 Standard-XV with support for the Matrox Comet and Marvel II only, some libs and applications, $150. There may well be educational discounts and other stuff, before the release is shipped... Announcements will be made on our accelx-announce@xinside.com mailing list, and to various newsgroups and mailing lists (hello freebsd-announce readers!). Cheers, JeremyC. -- Jeremy Chatfield, +1(303)470-5302, FAX:+1(303)470-5513, email:jdc@xinside.com X Inside Inc, P O Box 10774, Golden, CO 80401-0610, USA. Commercial X Server - for more information please try these services http://www.xinside.com info@xinside.com ftp.xinside.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 22:28:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA07795 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:28:51 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07787; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:28:46 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA26707; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:32:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:32:55 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503250632.XAA26707@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" "Re: httpd as part of the system." (Mar 24, 3:02pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , davidg@Root.COM Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I would like to see a standard component called "Networking distribution" > > (or 'netdist'), which contains things like httpd, pidentd, gated, etc. > > But you're also essentially stipulating that all such things become > bmake'd and enter the main source tree, unless you've got some clever > scheme for putting ports into our distributions now. If they are going to be *part* of the 'standard components', then we already agreed they would be bmaked. However, these components are not mandatory for all installations, though all of them in their entirety (sp?) are necessary for the any/all of the netdist tools to operate correctly. They one big 'module' rather than separate distinct programs. That means if one is installed, you can rely on using the other parts for scripts/interopabiliyt, etc... Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 22:36:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08347 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:36:47 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08339; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:36:42 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA26761; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:40:42 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:40:42 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503250640.XAA26761@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" "Re: httpd as part of the system." (Mar 25, 2:49am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Gnu Make ( was Re: httpd as part of the system.) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think, we can add gmake to gnu tree, but have all stuff bmaked :-) Adding two tools that do essentially the same thing to the tree is asking for trouble. It's also adding un-needed bloat to the tree. Finally, by requiring functionality that only exists in GNU make, you are making the BSD tree completely dependant on non-BSD software. Currently we have a big dependency on GCC, *but* we can pull gcc at anytime (losing shlib ability agreed) and replace it with a different compiler (lcc comes to mind, though it's not yet released publically) and the tree still builds. However, we can't replace the make utility with a different one and expect it to work if we use features specific to GNU-make. If you need those specific features, add them to BSD-make so that we have a tool that is useful. If we keep adding GNU code to the tree we'll become another Linux, and our main differences up to this point have been the copyright style. Yes in comparison to NetBSD we have a lot more GNU stuff, but those parts are not critical to the running/building of the system. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 22:39:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08465 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:39:02 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA08454 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:38:55 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA26789; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:42:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:42:55 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503250642.XAA26789@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty "Re: httpd as part of the system." (Mar 24, 5:23pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our > > system in an effort to both: ... > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) Why would we add a tool to mh as part of the standard system when mh is NOT part of the standard system? It seems kind of foolish to me. (And NO, we're not going to add specific mailers to the distribution. It's already been hashed out and decided that choice of mailers is a religious issue best left up to the user) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 22:42:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA08672 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:42:29 -0800 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA08666 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 22:42:28 -0800 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA13819; Fri, 24 Mar 95 23:36:06 MST From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9503250636.AA13819@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: P.S. [images] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 23:36:05 MST Cc: jmb@kryten.atinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503250144.RAA05793@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 24, 95 05:44:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 20 oz coffe cups, jordan? > > Gee, somehow I don't think that was the technique my doctor had in > mind when he said I *must* get my coffee consumption below 5 cups > a day! But it works for me!!!! :-) I agree -- just how big are australian coffee cups anyway? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 23:02:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA09819 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:02:38 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09813 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:02:29 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA06493; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:02:23 GMT Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:02:22 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: "Commissioning" some artwork.. In-Reply-To: <15541.796070569@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'm making a big leap of faith here and assuming that you're not > already completely and utterly sick of us for nit-picking all of your > artwork to death (:-), All artists I know *love* to have their artwork put under the microscope, generating comments and new ideas. Being *ignored* is their greatest fear. ;-) > My idea is that we have the daemon in motion walking OUT of a CD, sort > of caught halfway out with that trademark smile on his face and one > sneakered foot poised to set foot into the outside world. Sort of an > "Alice through the looking glass" kind of image. Model a concentric series of "ripples" moving over the CD surface where the daemon is emerging, like he is stepping out of a reflective pool of water. *That* would be very cool! > You'd be famous! I unfortunately > can't promise you that you'd be RICH, too, but we can probably work > out something to our mutual satisfaction! :-) Send him 50 copies of the 2.1 CD-ROM for distribution in Japan? :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 23:04:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA09848 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:04:16 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09838 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:03:56 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA06501; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:04:19 GMT Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:04:19 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: "Commissioning" some artwork.. In-Reply-To: <199503241114.LAA00616@star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Whatever happened to the Big Step Idea? Have the CD-ROM floating in space above the lunar landscape, with the daemon stepping out. Place the Apollo 11 lander module off in the background. :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Mar 24 23:41:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11425 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:41:23 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11419 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:41:18 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA01112; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:10:33 GMT Message-Id: <199503242310.XAA01112@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:42:55 MST." <199503250642.XAA26789@trout.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:10:30 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our > > > system in an effort to both: > ... > > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) > > Why would we add a tool to mh as part of the standard system when mh is > NOT part of the standard system? It seems kind of foolish to me. Is not foolish obviously is by implication. I really feel that in order to have an Internet Out Of The Box type system we do need a grahical interface to mail. This is 1995 and not a throw back to the early 70's. >(And NO, we're not going to add specific mailers to the distribution. It's Hashed out by whom ?? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 00:09:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA11927 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:09:31 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11921; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 00:09:28 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA06664; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:09:59 GMT Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:09:58 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. In-Reply-To: <17088.796072636@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I promised to say something about this a week or so back and have > been too busy with my new status to talk much about it! :-) Why not post this exact message to comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce? It sounds exactly like what the FreeBSD masses would like to hear. At my news site, the only thing in that newsgroup is Dave Burgess' periodic FAQ postings. :( By the way, has the 950322 snapshot been announced on Usenet yet? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 01:03:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA13030 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:03:39 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA13024 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:03:37 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 01:03 PST From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: help needed with fix to scsi tape. Cc: julian@tfs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have here a fix for the scsi tape driver.. The fix was actually simpler, but I needed toclean up some things while I was in there.. trouble is: I don't HAVE a scsi tape drive at the moment... In particular I need to check that the following works.. write to a variable length block drive in 10K records read from it with 30K records.. (and get 10K in each read) check what happens when writing (and reading) of the end of a tape (both fixed and variable type devices..) on a fixed block type tape.. write 5 records. then do a read that will be blocked to a 7 record read and check that it gets 5 records.. (e.g. if the tape has 1K blocksize: dd if=/etc/termcap of=/dev/rst0 bs=5k count=1 followed by: dd if=/dev/rst0 of=/tmp/xxx bs=7k and check that we get /tmp/xxx being 5k, and no error, just EOF.. enough: here is the patch: I need feedback on this because it's biting people apparently.. FreeBSD's tape driver as severely broken with regard to reading a different size than was written.... julian *** 1.4 1995/03/25 01:22:38 --- st.c 1995/03/25 06:10:01 *************** *** 1862,1868 **** #ifdef NETBSD #define SIGNAL_SHORT_READ #else ! #define SIGNAL_SHORT_READ bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; #endif /* --- 1862,1868 ---- #ifdef NETBSD #define SIGNAL_SHORT_READ #else ! #define SIGNAL_SHORT_READ if(bp) bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; #endif /* *************** *** 1889,1981 **** if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID) { info = ntohl(*((int32 *) sense->ext.extended.info)); } else { ! info = xs->datalen; /* bad choice if fixed blocks */ } if ((sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE) != 0x70) { ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE; /* let the generic code handle it */ } ! if (st->flags & ST_FIXEDBLOCKS) { ! xs->resid = info * st->blksiz; ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { ! st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ ! } ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { ! st->flags |= ST_AT_FILEMARK; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ } - } - if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { - st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; - if (bp) { - bp->b_resid = xs->resid; - SIGNAL_SHORT_READ - } - if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID && - !silent) - printf("st%d: block wrong size" - ", %d blocks residual\n", unit - ,info); - /* ! * This quirk code helps the drive read ! * the first tape block, regardless of ! * format. That is required for these ! * drives to return proper MODE SENSE ! * information. */ ! if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { ! st->blksiz -= 512; ! } ! } ! /* ! * If no data was tranfered, do it immediatly ! */ ! if (xs->resid >= xs->datalen) { ! if (st->flags & ST_EIO_PENDING) { ! return EIO; ! } ! if (st->flags & ST_AT_FILEMARK) { ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ } - return 0; } - } - } else { /* must be variable mode */ - xs->resid = xs->datalen; /* to be sure */ - if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { - return (EIO); - } - if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { - if (bp) - bp->b_resid = bp->b_bcount; return 0; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { ! if (info < 0) { ! /* ! * the record was bigger than the read ! */ ! if (!silent) ! printf("st%d: %d-byte record " ! "too big\n", unit, ! xs->datalen - info); return (EIO); } ! xs->resid = info; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = info; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ } } } key = sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_KEY; --- 1889,1975 ---- if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID) { info = ntohl(*((int32 *) sense->ext.extended.info)); } else { ! if (st->flags & ST_FIXEDBLOCKS) { ! info = xs->datalen / st->blksiz; ! } else { ! info = xs->datalen; ! } } if ((sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE) != 0x70) { ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE;/* let the generic code handle it */ } ! if(st->flags & (SSD_EOM|SSD_FILEMARK|SSD_ILI)) { ! if (st->flags & ST_FIXEDBLOCKS) { ! xs->resid = info * st->blksiz; ! xs->flags |= SCSI_RESID_VALID; ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { ! st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { ! st->flags |= ST_AT_FILEMARK; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { ! st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; ! if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID && ! !silent) ! printf("st%d: block wrong size" ! ", %d blocks residual\n", unit ! ,info); ! /*XXX*/ /* is this how it works ? */ ! /* check def of ILI for fixed blk tapes */ ! ! /* ! * This quirk code helps the drive read ! * the first tape block, regardless of ! * format. That is required for these ! * drives to return proper MODE SENSE ! * information. ! */ ! if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { ! st->blksiz -= 512; ! } } /* ! * If no data was tranfered, do it immediatly */ ! if (xs->resid >= xs->datalen) { ! xs->flags &= ~SCSI_RESID_VALID; ! if (st->flags & ST_AT_FILEMARK) { ! xs->flags |= SCSI_EOF; ! st->flags &= ~ST_AT_FILEMARK; ! return 0; ! } ! if (st->flags & ST_EIO_PENDING) { ! st->flags &= ~ST_EIO_PENDING; ! return EIO; } } return 0; ! } else { /* must be variable mode */ ! xs->resid = xs->datalen; /* to be sure */ ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { return (EIO); } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { ! xs->flags |= SCSI_EOF; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { ! if (info < 0) { ! /* ! * the record was bigger than the read ! */ ! if (!silent) ! printf("st%d: %d-byte record " ! "too big\n", unit, ! xs->datalen - info); ! return (EIO); ! } ! xs->resid = info; ! xs->flags |= SCSI_RESID_VALID; } } + return 0; } key = sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_KEY; *************** *** 1987,2005 **** * MODE SENSE information. */ if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { /* still starting */ st->blksiz -= 512; } else if (!(st->flags & (ST_2FM_AT_EOD | ST_BLANK_READ))) { st->flags |= ST_BLANK_READ; ! xs->resid = xs->datalen; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! /*return an EOF */ ! } return (ESUCCESS); } } ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE; /* let the default/generic handler handle it */ } /* --- 1981,1996 ---- * MODE SENSE information. */ if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { ! /* still starting */ st->blksiz -= 512; } else if (!(st->flags & (ST_2FM_AT_EOD | ST_BLANK_READ))) { st->flags |= ST_BLANK_READ; ! xs->flags |= SCSI_EOF; return (ESUCCESS); } } ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE; /* Use the the generic handler */ } /* *** 1.4 1995/03/25 01:22:38 --- scsi_base.c 1995/03/25 08:46:33 *************** *** 17,22 **** --- 17,23 ---- #include #include #include + #include #include #include #include *************** *** 61,66 **** --- 62,68 ---- sc_link->flags |= SDEV_WAITING; tsleep((caddr_t)sc_link, PRIBIO, "scsiget", 0); } + sc_link->active++; sc_link->opennings--; if (xs = next_free_xs) { next_free_xs = xs->next; *************** *** 97,102 **** --- 99,105 ---- SC_DEBUG(sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("free_xs\n")); /* if was 0 and someone waits, wake them up */ + sc_link->active--; if ((!sc_link->opennings++) && (sc_link->flags & SDEV_WAITING)) { sc_link->flags &= ~SDEV_WAITING; wakeup((caddr_t)sc_link); /* remember, it wakes them ALL up */ *************** *** 356,361 **** --- 359,367 ---- } /* BUG: This isn't used anywhere. Do you have plans for it, * Julian? (dufault@hda.com). + * This allows a private 'done' handler to + * resubmit the command if it wants to retry, + * In this case the xs must NOT be freed. (julian) */ if (retval == -2) { return; /* it did it all, finish up */ *************** *** 427,433 **** if (bp && !(flags & SCSI_USER)) flags |= SCSI_NOSLEEP; SC_DEBUG(sc_link, SDEV_DB2, ("scsi_cmd\n")); ! xs = get_xs(sc_link, flags); /* should wait unless booting */ if (!xs) return (ENOMEM); /* * Fill out the scsi_xfer structure. We don't know whose context --- 433,439 ---- if (bp && !(flags & SCSI_USER)) flags |= SCSI_NOSLEEP; SC_DEBUG(sc_link, SDEV_DB2, ("scsi_cmd\n")); ! xs = get_xs(sc_link, flags); if (!xs) return (ENOMEM); /* * Fill out the scsi_xfer structure. We don't know whose context *************** *** 442,448 **** xs->cmdlen = cmdlen; xs->data = data_addr; xs->datalen = datalen; ! xs->resid = datalen; xs->bp = bp; /*XXX*/ /*use constant not magic number */ if (datalen && ((caddr_t) data_addr < (caddr_t) KERNBASE)) { --- 448,454 ---- xs->cmdlen = cmdlen; xs->data = data_addr; xs->datalen = datalen; ! xs->resid = datalen; /* just to be safe, but don't mark as VALID */ xs->bp = bp; /*XXX*/ /*use constant not magic number */ if (datalen && ((caddr_t) data_addr < (caddr_t) KERNBASE)) { *************** *** 503,510 **** switch (retval) { case SUCCESSFULLY_QUEUED: ! if (bp) ! return retval; /* will sleep (or not) elsewhere */ s = splbio(); while (!(xs->flags & ITSDONE)) { tsleep((caddr_t)xs, PRIBIO + 1, "scsicmd", 0); --- 509,517 ---- switch (retval) { case SUCCESSFULLY_QUEUED: ! if (bp) { ! return 0; /* will sleep (or not) elsewhere */ ! } s = splbio(); while (!(xs->flags & ITSDONE)) { tsleep((caddr_t)xs, PRIBIO + 1, "scsicmd", 0); *************** *** 561,566 **** --- 568,616 ---- return (retval); } + /* + * submit a scsi command, given the command.. used for retries + * and callable from timeout() + */ + #ifdef NOTYET + errval scsi_submit(xs) + struct scsi_xfer *xs; + { + struct scsi_link *sc_link = xs->sc_link; + int retval; + + retval = (*(sc_link->adapter->scsi_cmd)) (xs); + + return retval; + } + + /* + * Retry a scsi command, given the command, and a delay. + */ + errval scsi_retry(xs,delay) + struct scsi_xfer *xs; + int delay; + { + if(delay) + { + timeout(((void())*)scsi_submit,xs,hz*delay); + return(0); + } + else + { + return(scsi_submit(xs)); + } + } + #endif + + /* + * handle checking for errors.. + * called at interrupt time from scsi_done() and + * at user time from scsi_scsi_cmd(), depending on whether + * there was a bp (basically, if there is a bp, there may be no + * associated process at the time. (it could be an async operation)) + * lower level routines shouldn't know about xs->bp.. we are the lowest. + */ static errval sc_err1(xs) struct scsi_xfer *xs; *************** *** 581,591 **** retval = ESUCCESS; if (bp) { bp->b_error = 0; ! bp->b_resid = 0; } break; case XS_SENSE: retval = scsi_interpret_sense(xs); if (retval == SCSIRET_DO_RETRY) { if (xs->retries--) { --- 631,659 ---- retval = ESUCCESS; if (bp) { bp->b_error = 0; ! bp->b_resid = 0; /* assume all data transferred */ ! } ! /* ! * if it appears untouched, ! * assume done ! * (don't we trust the adapter drivers to do this?) ! */ ! if(!(xs->flags & SCSI_RESID_VALID) ! && (xs->resid == xs->datalen)) { ! xs->resid = 0; } break; case XS_SENSE: + /* + * The return here is tricky.. a device might + * return a sense which is not an error. A tape will return + * for a short read or EOF (for example) with no error but + * with sense info. The private error handler may have + * set the residual values up correctly, and should have + * set the B_ERROR flag, telling physio not to retry for + * more data. We mustn't clobber this setup. + */ retval = scsi_interpret_sense(xs); if (retval == SCSIRET_DO_RETRY) { if (xs->retries--) { *************** *** 593,609 **** xs->flags &= ~ITSDONE; goto retry; } } - retval = EIO; /* Too many retries */ if (bp) { ! bp->b_error = 0; ! bp->b_resid = 0; if (retval) { bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; - bp->b_error = retval; bp->b_resid = bp->b_bcount; } SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("scsi_interpret_sense (bp) returned %d\n", retval)); } else { --- 661,705 ---- xs->flags &= ~ITSDONE; goto retry; } + retval = EIO; /* Too many retries */ + } + /* + * an EOF condition results in a VALID resid.. + */ + if(xs->flags & SCSI_EOF) { + xs->resid = xs->datalen; + xs->flags |= SCSI_RESID_VALID; } if (bp) { ! bp->b_error = retval; if (retval) { bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; bp->b_resid = bp->b_bcount; + } else { + /* + * apparently it was not an error. + * The trick is that in this case, the error + * interpretting code could have set xs->resid + * to be something useful. + * if not, maybe the adapter driver did.. + * + * It may have been an EOF (resid == datalen) + * or a short read, ( 0 < resid < datalen ) + * or a corrected soft_error (resid == 0) + */ + if(xs->flags & SCSI_EOF) { + bp->b_resid = bp->b_bcount; + } else { + if( xs->flags & SCSI_RESID_VALID) { + bp->b_resid = xs->resid; + } else { + bp->b_resid = 0; + } + } + } + SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("scsi_interpret_sense (bp) returned %d\n", retval)); } else { *************** *** 612,621 **** } break; ! case XS_BUSY: ! /*should somehow arange for a 1 sec delay here (how?) */ ! /* XXX tsleep(&localvar, priority, "foo", hz); ! that's how! */ case XS_TIMEOUT: /* * If we can, resubmit it to the adapter. --- 708,720 ---- } break; ! case XS_BUSY: /*XXX*/ ! /* should somehow arange for a 1 sec delay here (how?)[jre] ! * tsleep(&localvar, priority, "foo", hz); ! * that's how! [unknown] ! * no, we could be at interrupt context.. use ! * timeout(scsi_resubmit,xs,hz); [jre] (not implimenteed yet) ! */ case XS_TIMEOUT: /* * If we can, resubmit it to the adapter. *************** *** 827,842 **** errcode = (*sc_link->device->err_handler) (xs); if (errcode >= 0) return errcode; /* valid errno value */ switch(errcode) { ! case SCSIRET_DO_RETRY: /* Requested a retry */ return errcode; ! case SCSIRET_CONTINUE: /* Continue with default sense processing */ break; ! default: sc_print_addr(xs->sc_link); printf("unknown return code %d from sense handler.\n", errcode); --- 926,944 ---- errcode = (*sc_link->device->err_handler) (xs); if (errcode >= 0) + if(xs->flags & SCSI_EOF) { + xs->resid = xs->datalen; + } return errcode; /* valid errno value */ switch(errcode) { ! case SCSIRET_DO_RETRY: /* Requested a retry */ return errcode; ! case SCSIRET_CONTINUE: /* Continue with default sense processing */ break; ! default: sc_print_addr(xs->sc_link); printf("unknown return code %d from sense handler.\n", errcode); *************** *** 890,895 **** --- 992,1001 ---- switch ((int)key) { case 0x0: /* NO SENSE */ case 0x1: /* RECOVERED ERROR */ + if(xs->flags & SCSI_EOF) { + xs->resid = xs->datalen; + return (ESUCCESS); + } if (xs->resid == xs->datalen) xs->resid = 0; /* not short read */ case 0xc: /* EQUAL */ *** 1.4 1995/03/25 01:22:38 --- scsiconf.h 1995/03/25 05:39:29 *************** *** 406,412 **** --- 406,414 ---- #define SCSI_NOMASK 0x02 /* dont allow interrupts.. booting */ #define SCSI_NOSTART 0x04 /* left over from ancient history */ #define SCSI_USER 0x08 /* Is a user cmd, call scsi_user_done */ + #define SCSI_ITSDONE 0x10 /* the transfer is as done as it gets */ #define ITSDONE 0x10 /* the transfer is as done as it gets */ + #define SCSI_INUSE 0x20 /* The scsi_xfer block is in use */ #define INUSE 0x20 /* The scsi_xfer block is in use */ #define SCSI_SILENT 0x40 /* Don't report errors to console */ #define SCSI_ERR_OK 0x80 /* An error on this operation is OK. */ *************** *** 416,421 **** --- 418,425 ---- #define SCSI_DATA_OUT 0x800 /* expect data to flow OUT of memory */ #define SCSI_TARGET 0x1000 /* This defines a TARGET mode op. */ #define SCSI_ESCAPE 0x2000 /* Escape operation */ + #define SCSI_EOF 0x4000 /* The operation should return EOF */ + #define SCSI_RESID_VALID 0x8000 /* The resid field contains valid data */ /* * Escape op codes. This provides an extensible setup for operations +----------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / On assignment | / \ julian@tfs.com +------>x USA \ in a very strange | ( OZ ) 300 lakeside Dr. oakland CA. \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ USA+(510) 645-3137(wk) \_/ \\ v From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 01:15:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA13742 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:15:37 -0800 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-1-64.gw.umn.edu [134.84.101.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA13727 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:15:25 -0800 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA01661 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:12:34 -0600 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199503250812.CAA01661@mpp.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:12:34 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199503250158.TAA03791@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 24, 95 07:58:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 224 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > Speaking of which, can soneone gen me up a copy of Mosaic 2.5 for 1.1.5.1 > with Motif statically linked? While we're at it, is there a compiled version of Mosaic floating around for 2.0+? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 01:34:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA14889 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:34:25 -0800 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA14882 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:34:23 -0800 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 95 01:33 PST From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: OOPS previous patch flawed Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk NATURALLY I spotted a flaw in the patch just AFTER I posted it.. here is the fixed version.. ###############cut here############ *** 1.4 1995/03/25 01:22:38 --- st.c 1995/03/25 09:17:10 *************** *** 1859,1870 **** flags)); } - #ifdef NETBSD - #define SIGNAL_SHORT_READ - #else - #define SIGNAL_SHORT_READ bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; - #endif - /* * Look at the returned sense and act on the error and detirmine * The unix error number to pass back... (0 = report no error) --- 1859,1864 ---- *************** *** 1889,1981 **** if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID) { info = ntohl(*((int32 *) sense->ext.extended.info)); } else { ! info = xs->datalen; /* bad choice if fixed blocks */ } if ((sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE) != 0x70) { ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE; /* let the generic code handle it */ } ! if (st->flags & ST_FIXEDBLOCKS) { ! xs->resid = info * st->blksiz; ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { ! st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ ! } ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { ! st->flags |= ST_AT_FILEMARK; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ } - } - if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { - st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; - if (bp) { - bp->b_resid = xs->resid; - SIGNAL_SHORT_READ - } - if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID && - !silent) - printf("st%d: block wrong size" - ", %d blocks residual\n", unit - ,info); - /* ! * This quirk code helps the drive read ! * the first tape block, regardless of ! * format. That is required for these ! * drives to return proper MODE SENSE ! * information. */ ! if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { ! st->blksiz -= 512; ! } ! } ! /* ! * If no data was tranfered, do it immediatly ! */ ! if (xs->resid >= xs->datalen) { ! if (st->flags & ST_EIO_PENDING) { ! return EIO; ! } ! if (st->flags & ST_AT_FILEMARK) { ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ } - return 0; } - } - } else { /* must be variable mode */ - xs->resid = xs->datalen; /* to be sure */ - if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { - return (EIO); - } - if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { - if (bp) - bp->b_resid = bp->b_bcount; return 0; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { ! if (info < 0) { ! /* ! * the record was bigger than the read ! */ ! if (!silent) ! printf("st%d: %d-byte record " ! "too big\n", unit, ! xs->datalen - info); return (EIO); } ! xs->resid = info; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = info; ! SIGNAL_SHORT_READ } } } key = sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_KEY; --- 1883,1969 ---- if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID) { info = ntohl(*((int32 *) sense->ext.extended.info)); } else { ! if (st->flags & ST_FIXEDBLOCKS) { ! info = xs->datalen / st->blksiz; ! } else { ! info = xs->datalen; ! } } if ((sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE) != 0x70) { ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE;/* let the generic code handle it */ } ! if(st->flags & (SSD_EOM|SSD_FILEMARK|SSD_ILI)) { ! if (st->flags & ST_FIXEDBLOCKS) { ! xs->resid = info * st->blksiz; ! xs->flags |= SCSI_RESID_VALID; ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { ! st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { ! st->flags |= ST_AT_FILEMARK; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { ! st->flags |= ST_EIO_PENDING; ! if (sense->error_code & SSD_ERRCODE_VALID && ! !silent) ! printf("st%d: block wrong size" ! ", %d blocks residual\n", unit ! ,info); ! /*XXX*/ /* is this how it works ? */ ! /* check def of ILI for fixed blk tapes */ ! ! /* ! * This quirk code helps the drive read ! * the first tape block, regardless of ! * format. That is required for these ! * drives to return proper MODE SENSE ! * information. ! */ ! if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { ! st->blksiz -= 512; ! } } /* ! * If no data was tranfered, do it immediatly */ ! if (xs->resid >= xs->datalen) { ! xs->flags &= ~SCSI_RESID_VALID; ! if (st->flags & ST_AT_FILEMARK) { ! xs->flags |= SCSI_EOF; ! st->flags &= ~ST_AT_FILEMARK; ! return 0; ! } ! if (st->flags & ST_EIO_PENDING) { ! st->flags &= ~ST_EIO_PENDING; ! return EIO; } } return 0; ! } else { /* must be variable mode */ ! xs->resid = xs->datalen; /* to be sure */ ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_EOM) { return (EIO); } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_FILEMARK) { ! xs->flags |= SCSI_EOF; ! } ! if (sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_ILI) { ! if (info < 0) { ! /* ! * the record was bigger than the read ! */ ! if (!silent) ! printf("st%d: %d-byte record " ! "too big\n", unit, ! xs->datalen - info); ! return (EIO); ! } ! xs->resid = info; ! xs->flags |= SCSI_RESID_VALID; } } + return 0; } key = sense->ext.extended.flags & SSD_KEY; *************** *** 1987,2005 **** * MODE SENSE information. */ if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { /* still starting */ st->blksiz -= 512; } else if (!(st->flags & (ST_2FM_AT_EOD | ST_BLANK_READ))) { st->flags |= ST_BLANK_READ; ! xs->resid = xs->datalen; ! if (bp) { ! bp->b_resid = xs->resid; ! /*return an EOF */ ! } return (ESUCCESS); } } ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE; /* let the default/generic handler handle it */ } /* --- 1975,1990 ---- * MODE SENSE information. */ if ((st->quirks & ST_Q_SNS_HLP) && ! !(sc_link->flags & SDEV_MEDIA_LOADED)) { ! /* still starting */ st->blksiz -= 512; } else if (!(st->flags & (ST_2FM_AT_EOD | ST_BLANK_READ))) { st->flags |= ST_BLANK_READ; ! xs->flags |= SCSI_EOF; return (ESUCCESS); } } ! return SCSIRET_CONTINUE; /* Use the the generic handler */ } /* *** 1.4 1995/03/25 01:22:38 --- scsi_base.c 1995/03/25 09:28:48 *************** *** 17,22 **** --- 17,23 ---- #include #include #include + #include #include #include #include *************** *** 61,66 **** --- 62,68 ---- sc_link->flags |= SDEV_WAITING; tsleep((caddr_t)sc_link, PRIBIO, "scsiget", 0); } + sc_link->active++; sc_link->opennings--; if (xs = next_free_xs) { next_free_xs = xs->next; *************** *** 97,102 **** --- 99,105 ---- SC_DEBUG(sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("free_xs\n")); /* if was 0 and someone waits, wake them up */ + sc_link->active--; if ((!sc_link->opennings++) && (sc_link->flags & SDEV_WAITING)) { sc_link->flags &= ~SDEV_WAITING; wakeup((caddr_t)sc_link); /* remember, it wakes them ALL up */ *************** *** 356,361 **** --- 359,367 ---- } /* BUG: This isn't used anywhere. Do you have plans for it, * Julian? (dufault@hda.com). + * This allows a private 'done' handler to + * resubmit the command if it wants to retry, + * In this case the xs must NOT be freed. (julian) */ if (retval == -2) { return; /* it did it all, finish up */ *************** *** 427,433 **** if (bp && !(flags & SCSI_USER)) flags |= SCSI_NOSLEEP; SC_DEBUG(sc_link, SDEV_DB2, ("scsi_cmd\n")); ! xs = get_xs(sc_link, flags); /* should wait unless booting */ if (!xs) return (ENOMEM); /* * Fill out the scsi_xfer structure. We don't know whose context --- 433,439 ---- if (bp && !(flags & SCSI_USER)) flags |= SCSI_NOSLEEP; SC_DEBUG(sc_link, SDEV_DB2, ("scsi_cmd\n")); ! xs = get_xs(sc_link, flags); if (!xs) return (ENOMEM); /* * Fill out the scsi_xfer structure. We don't know whose context *************** *** 442,448 **** xs->cmdlen = cmdlen; xs->data = data_addr; xs->datalen = datalen; ! xs->resid = datalen; xs->bp = bp; /*XXX*/ /*use constant not magic number */ if (datalen && ((caddr_t) data_addr < (caddr_t) KERNBASE)) { --- 448,454 ---- xs->cmdlen = cmdlen; xs->data = data_addr; xs->datalen = datalen; ! xs->resid = datalen; /* just to be safe, but don't mark as VALID */ xs->bp = bp; /*XXX*/ /*use constant not magic number */ if (datalen && ((caddr_t) data_addr < (caddr_t) KERNBASE)) { *************** *** 503,510 **** switch (retval) { case SUCCESSFULLY_QUEUED: ! if (bp) ! return retval; /* will sleep (or not) elsewhere */ s = splbio(); while (!(xs->flags & ITSDONE)) { tsleep((caddr_t)xs, PRIBIO + 1, "scsicmd", 0); --- 509,517 ---- switch (retval) { case SUCCESSFULLY_QUEUED: ! if (bp) { ! return 0; /* will sleep (or not) elsewhere */ ! } s = splbio(); while (!(xs->flags & ITSDONE)) { tsleep((caddr_t)xs, PRIBIO + 1, "scsicmd", 0); *************** *** 561,566 **** --- 568,616 ---- return (retval); } + /* + * submit a scsi command, given the command.. used for retries + * and callable from timeout() + */ + #ifdef NOTYET + errval scsi_submit(xs) + struct scsi_xfer *xs; + { + struct scsi_link *sc_link = xs->sc_link; + int retval; + + retval = (*(sc_link->adapter->scsi_cmd)) (xs); + + return retval; + } + + /* + * Retry a scsi command, given the command, and a delay. + */ + errval scsi_retry(xs,delay) + struct scsi_xfer *xs; + int delay; + { + if(delay) + { + timeout(((void())*)scsi_submit,xs,hz*delay); + return(0); + } + else + { + return(scsi_submit(xs)); + } + } + #endif + + /* + * handle checking for errors.. + * called at interrupt time from scsi_done() and + * at user time from scsi_scsi_cmd(), depending on whether + * there was a bp (basically, if there is a bp, there may be no + * associated process at the time. (it could be an async operation)) + * lower level routines shouldn't know about xs->bp.. we are the lowest. + */ static errval sc_err1(xs) struct scsi_xfer *xs; *************** *** 581,591 **** retval = ESUCCESS; if (bp) { bp->b_error = 0; ! bp->b_resid = 0; } break; case XS_SENSE: retval = scsi_interpret_sense(xs); if (retval == SCSIRET_DO_RETRY) { if (xs->retries--) { --- 631,660 ---- retval = ESUCCESS; if (bp) { bp->b_error = 0; ! bp->b_resid = 0; /* assume all data transferred */ ! } ! /* ! * if it appears untouched, ! * assume done ! * (don't we trust the adapter drivers to do this?) ! */ ! if(!(xs->flags & SCSI_RESID_VALID) ! && (xs->resid == xs->datalen)) { ! xs->resid = 0; } break; case XS_SENSE: + /* + * The return here is tricky.. a device might + * return a sense which is not an error. A tape will return + * for a short read or EOF (for example) with no error but + * with sense info. The private error handler may have + * set the residual values up correctly, and should have + * set the SCSI_RESID_VALID flag. We need to + * tell physio not to retry for + * more data. We mustn't clobber that resid value. + */ retval = scsi_interpret_sense(xs); if (retval == SCSIRET_DO_RETRY) { if (xs->retries--) { *************** *** 593,609 **** xs->flags &= ~ITSDONE; goto retry; } } - retval = EIO; /* Too many retries */ if (bp) { ! bp->b_error = 0; ! bp->b_resid = 0; if (retval) { bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; - bp->b_error = retval; bp->b_resid = bp->b_bcount; } SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("scsi_interpret_sense (bp) returned %d\n", retval)); } else { --- 662,713 ---- xs->flags &= ~ITSDONE; goto retry; } + retval = EIO; /* Too many retries */ + } + /* + * an EOF condition results in a VALID resid.. + */ + if(xs->flags & SCSI_EOF) { + xs->resid = xs->datalen; + xs->flags |= SCSI_RESID_VALID; } if (bp) { ! bp->b_error = retval; if (retval) { bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; bp->b_resid = bp->b_bcount; + } else { + /* + * apparently it was not an error. + * The trick is that in this case, the error + * interpretting code could have set xs->resid + * to be something useful. + * if not, maybe the adapter driver did.. + * + * It may have been an EOF (resid == datalen) + * or a short read, ( 0 < resid < datalen ) + * or a corrected soft_error (resid == 0) + */ + if( xs->flags & SCSI_RESID_VALID) { + bp->b_resid = xs->resid; + /* + * if it's a short read, set the error + * bit but not the error value.. + * that's how FreeBSD indicates that. + */ + if(xs->resid + && (xs->resid != xs->datalen)) + bp->b_flags |= B_ERROR; + } else { + /* + * If nothing gives us a better value, + * assume we transfered all we wanted + */ + bp->b_resid = 0; + } } + SC_DEBUG(xs->sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("scsi_interpret_sense (bp) returned %d\n", retval)); } else { *************** *** 612,621 **** } break; ! case XS_BUSY: ! /*should somehow arange for a 1 sec delay here (how?) */ ! /* XXX tsleep(&localvar, priority, "foo", hz); ! that's how! */ case XS_TIMEOUT: /* * If we can, resubmit it to the adapter. --- 716,728 ---- } break; ! case XS_BUSY: /*XXX*/ ! /* should somehow arange for a 1 sec delay here (how?)[jre] ! * tsleep(&localvar, priority, "foo", hz); ! * that's how! [unknown] ! * no, we could be at interrupt context.. use ! * timeout(scsi_resubmit,xs,hz); [jre] (not implimenteed yet) ! */ case XS_TIMEOUT: /* * If we can, resubmit it to the adapter. *************** *** 827,842 **** errcode = (*sc_link->device->err_handler) (xs); if (errcode >= 0) return errcode; /* valid errno value */ switch(errcode) { ! case SCSIRET_DO_RETRY: /* Requested a retry */ return errcode; ! case SCSIRET_CONTINUE: /* Continue with default sense processing */ break; ! default: sc_print_addr(xs->sc_link); printf("unknown return code %d from sense handler.\n", errcode); --- 934,952 ---- errcode = (*sc_link->device->err_handler) (xs); if (errcode >= 0) + if(xs->flags & SCSI_EOF) { + xs->resid = xs->datalen; + } return errcode; /* valid errno value */ switch(errcode) { ! case SCSIRET_DO_RETRY: /* Requested a retry */ return errcode; ! case SCSIRET_CONTINUE: /* Continue with default sense processing */ break; ! default: sc_print_addr(xs->sc_link); printf("unknown return code %d from sense handler.\n", errcode); *************** *** 890,895 **** --- 1000,1009 ---- switch ((int)key) { case 0x0: /* NO SENSE */ case 0x1: /* RECOVERED ERROR */ + if(xs->flags & SCSI_EOF) { + xs->resid = xs->datalen; + return (ESUCCESS); + } if (xs->resid == xs->datalen) xs->resid = 0; /* not short read */ case 0xc: /* EQUAL */ *** 1.4 1995/03/25 01:22:38 --- scsiconf.h 1995/03/25 05:39:29 *************** *** 406,412 **** --- 406,414 ---- #define SCSI_NOMASK 0x02 /* dont allow interrupts.. booting */ #define SCSI_NOSTART 0x04 /* left over from ancient history */ #define SCSI_USER 0x08 /* Is a user cmd, call scsi_user_done */ + #define SCSI_ITSDONE 0x10 /* the transfer is as done as it gets */ #define ITSDONE 0x10 /* the transfer is as done as it gets */ + #define SCSI_INUSE 0x20 /* The scsi_xfer block is in use */ #define INUSE 0x20 /* The scsi_xfer block is in use */ #define SCSI_SILENT 0x40 /* Don't report errors to console */ #define SCSI_ERR_OK 0x80 /* An error on this operation is OK. */ *************** *** 416,421 **** --- 418,425 ---- #define SCSI_DATA_OUT 0x800 /* expect data to flow OUT of memory */ #define SCSI_TARGET 0x1000 /* This defines a TARGET mode op. */ #define SCSI_ESCAPE 0x2000 /* Escape operation */ + #define SCSI_EOF 0x4000 /* The operation should return EOF */ + #define SCSI_RESID_VALID 0x8000 /* The resid field contains valid data */ /* * Escape op codes. This provides an extensible setup for operations #################end of patch########## +----------------------------------+ ______ _ __ | __--_|\ Julian Elischer | \ U \/ / On assignment | / \ julian@tfs.com +------>x USA \ in a very strange | ( OZ ) 300 lakeside Dr. oakland CA. \___ ___ | country ! +- X_.---._/ USA+(510) 645-3137(wk) \_/ \\ v From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 01:41:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA15213 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:41:12 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15207 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:41:10 -0800 Received: from halley.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil ([158.9.11.166]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA23290 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:40:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199503250940.BAA23290@wcarchive.cdrom.com> Received: by halley.stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA218202695; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:18:15 -0500 From: william pechter ILEX Subject: Re: P.S. [images] To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 14:18:14 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <15648.796070891@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 10:48:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1313 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This image would also be put on coffee cups, one of which would be > sent to each major contributor. We know which liquid fuels most of > our contributions! :-) Great... > > Finally, demand in Europe is apparently quite high for a *stuffed* > Daemon! I've gotten numerous requests for such things, the last being > a German request forwarded to me by Joerg, and I think that it might > not be a bad idea to see the little guy immortalized in cotton > stuffing! I'd buy one in a minute. My daughter (1 year old) would love it. It would be quite cute and cuddly. Anyone out there remember the "Nauga" from the naugahyde vinyl TV commercials of the '60's. My wife's got on her Free the BSD 4.4 shirt today (mine's in the wash)... Do it in red (baby drool-proof vinyl). 8-) > > Anyone know of a good place to go for such things? And if anyone > recommends alt.sex.plushies, I'll hit them with a stick! :-) > OUCH. Drop a cross post into misc.wanted and wait to see who's got a business doing advertising novelties. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter |Systems Administrator | Ilex Systems |170 Patterson Ave | Shrewsbury, New Jersey 07702 908-532-2369 |pechter@sesd.ilex.com | pechter@stars.sed.monmouth.army.mil From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 01:57:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA15732 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:57:28 -0800 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15726; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:57:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA02911; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:56:30 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199503250956.KAA02911@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:56:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 12:43:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 951 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our > system in an effort to both: > > A) Improve the infrastructure that our docs team can rely on. > B) Make FreeBSD a better "out of box" Internet solution. > > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > (I think it's the CERN httpd). Beware: the feb. port of cern_httpd does not recognize passwords with the standard (MD5) password encoding algorithm. The casual user is going to have troubles with this. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 02:22:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA16379 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:22:54 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA16373 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:22:52 -0800 Received: from localhost.mcs.com (localhost.mcs.com [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA00373; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:17:59 GMT Message-Id: <199503250217.CAA00373@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost.mcs.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Mike Pritchard cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:12:34 CST." <199503250812.CAA01661@mpp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:17:56 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 02:40:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA16706 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:40:07 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA16686 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:39:50 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00485; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:39:26 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id LAA08353 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:39:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA12525 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:32:28 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503251032.LAA12525@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: env-dependant symlinks [Was: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd)] To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:32:27 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <23776.796085665@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 02:54:25 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1142 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The main problem is getting access to the environment from the namei() > code. getenv/putenv all manipulate a malloc'd region in the process > context and there's not even a handle on it that's easy to get to from > the system. You figure that out and the expanion should be trivial! What's wrong with the approach to make this all in userland? I've seen this on Data General's DG/UX. They do have so-called ``elinks'', i.e. symlinks starting with the string "elink:". They are used to switch between different software development environments, and they made their development tools (cc, as, ld, nm, ar) aware of them, and resolve the paths there. Other tools can easily made aware of them, too (including scripts), by simply looking what the links points to, and resolving it in their own context. A typical elink there is (written from mind, need not be exact): crt0.o -> \ elink:/${SDEROOT:-usr}/sde/${TARGET_BINARY_INTERFACE:-m88kdgux}/usr/lib/crt0.o -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 02:56:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA16958 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:56:38 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA16952; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:56:34 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA27832; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:57:16 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503251057.KAA27832@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:57:15 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 12:44:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1129 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our > system in an effort to both: > > A) Improve the infrastructure that our docs team can rely on. > B) Make FreeBSD a better "out of box" Internet solution. > > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > (I think it's the CERN httpd). Why do we need to add a server? You don't need a server to read the docs, > > 2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we > supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. Ok, this is reasonable since you're not going to be able to read our docs without a viewer. Anyone want to write a freely-redistributable version of mosaic or netscape, it would certainly be usefull. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 02:59:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA16987 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:59:46 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA16979; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:59:42 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA27845; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:00:19 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503251100.LAA27845@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: A "FreeBSD" Daemon To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:00:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: ferovick@runner.jpl.utsa.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <20359.796079204@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 01:06:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 973 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > I think that, with a little work, the "Free" in "FreeBSD" can either > gain brand-name status or become synonymous with a different > connotation of "free", that meaning openness (REAL openness, not the > ersatz openness of most OpenThis and OpenThat standards), freedom to > develop it, freedom to share the work with many external developers > which may constitute a serious part of your business development > resource, etc. I agree. The way to get FreeBSD accepted as a "serious" OS is to make it a rock solid product and to market it properly. The name then becomes synonymous with a quality product. This is already starting to happen and to change names now would be a step back. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 03:19:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA17430 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:19:59 -0800 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA17423 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:19:52 -0800 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03117; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:31:41 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00048 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:18:43 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05864 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:18:56 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA00801; Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:09:07 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199503241609.RAA00801@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia To: aledm@relay-europe.ps.net (Aled Morris) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:09:07 +1596657 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Aled Morris" at Mar 24, 95 10:52:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1062 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The > new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz > 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet > for $3000) >From my experience with AXP machines I'd say that 24Mb is not very much.. Neither is a 340Mb HD.. Note that this experience comes from using DEC OSF/1 which is a neat but fairly(...) big OS. > Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a > volunteer to do the port? How do you intend to get low level programming info for the Multia? Is it available ? There are also mainboards for sale (by DEC and others), my guess is that they'd come with more programming info (and are probably cheaper). Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 03:45:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA17898 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:45:59 -0800 Received: from wcarchive.cdrom.com (wcarchive.cdrom.com [192.216.191.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA17891 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:45:58 -0800 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by wcarchive.cdrom.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA05669 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:45:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA10883; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:44:50 +0200 Message-Id: <199503251144.NAA10883@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: william pechter ILEX cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), FreeBSD-hackers@wcarchive.cdrom.com (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: P.S. [images] Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:44:50 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Finally, demand in Europe is apparently quite high for a *stuffed* > > Daemon! I've gotten numerous requests for such things, the last being > > a German request forwarded to me by Joerg, and I think that it might > > not be a bad idea to see the little guy immortalized in cotton > > stuffing! > > I'd buy one in a minute. > > My daughter (1 year old) would love it. It would be quite cute and > cuddly. Anyone out there remember the "Nauga" from the naugahyde > vinyl TV commercials of the '60's. My wife's got on her Free the BSD 4.4 > shirt today (mine's in the wash)... This got me thinking. (Dangerous!) My Mom knows someon who may know someone (...) who could produce these. The factory employs disadvantaged (not-white) South Africans with disabilities using environmetally friendly materials. (This is a Teddy-Bear factory!!) Investigations are proceeding. Monday will tell... If this pans out, I would quite like to turn over the negotiations and sales stuff over to someone who knows about this sort of thing. I don't mind being a local liason, but sales/business scares the willies out of me. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 03:56:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA20561 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:56:12 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA20555 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 03:55:59 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA12713; Sat, 25 Mar 95 12:55:40 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id NAA21735; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:01:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199503251201.NAA21735@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:01:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) In-Reply-To: <9503241735.AA09749@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 24, 95 10:35:51 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2323 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Anyone thought about a port of FreeBSD to the DEC Alpha processor? The > > > new Multia machine seems to offer good value for money hardware (166MHz > > > 64bit Alpha processor, 24Mb RAM, 340Mb SCSI-2 HDD, PCI bus, and Ethernet > > > for $3000) > > > > > > Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a > > > volunteer to do the port? > > > > There is a NetBSD port to the APX architecture. ^^ xp (applied here as a vi command, please) Sorry, typo on my side. How could I... > > This is for the DEC AXP150. > > An EISA machine with an Adaptec 1742 controller; there is supposedly > no X support, and a number of other problems. > > There is, however, the basic code for the Alpha processor with the OSF > Alpha microcode, and *significant* work on many parts of the 4.4 system > to make it 64 bit clean. > > On the other hand, EISA is being replaced by PCI and the AHA1742 is a > dead piece of hardware (so is the AXP150, for that matter). > > The new DEC Alpha PCI motherboard ($1170 from DEC Direct), although it > wants PS/2 style SIMMs (bletch) and the default microcode requires 16M > of memory, seems a much better deal. > > There is a DEC-available-to-askers-only microcode update disk that > allows it to run with only 8M (still the OSF microcode otherwise) and > in fact, Linux is already booting from floppy on this hardware > configuration (the guy doing the work lives about 17 minutes away > from me). > > > Personally, I would prefer that at *least* kernel multithreading and > *preferrably* SMP support were in prior to ossifying the kernel and VM > structures into multiple architectures which would then have to be > individually retrofitted as interface changes were made to put them in. > > In the limit, I think it possible that the job might become to large > to *ever* tackle otherwise. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Mar 22 04:54:59 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 04:03:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA20821 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 04:03:47 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA20812 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 04:03:43 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA12731; Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:03:35 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id NAA21758 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:09:25 +0100 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:09:25 +0100 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199503251209.NAA21758@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: README :-) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In 2.0-950322-SNAP: Please read the file README README has 0 bytes. :-) --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Mar 22 04:54:59 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 04:22:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA21123 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 04:22:57 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA21114 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 04:22:48 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01862; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:22:38 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id NAA09087 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:22:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA20462 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:27:59 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503251127.MAA20462@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:27:57 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199503250007.QAA15776@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 24, 95 04:07:48 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 627 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > Peter and I are both perl scripts - didn't you know? :-) > > > Peter is to fast and reliable to be Perl... :-) Well, as for reliability -- this is only a question of quality and who actually wrote the software. And with speed, Perl scripts usually only require some startup time, just to compile the script. Since Peter seems to be continuously running... He must have an excellent uptime, however. FreeBSD 1.1.5.1? Unix/V7? CP/M 2.2? :^) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 05:00:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA21686 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 05:00:54 -0800 Received: from nietzsche (annex1s39.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA21679 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 05:00:50 -0800 Received: from nietzsche (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA04823; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:18:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199503251218.NAA04823@nietzsche> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 21:05:03 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:18:30 +0100 From: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Question: > Should there be the concept of meta-packages? Ones which are just a > collection of other packages, that is. If this was done, then there could > be the 'super network' meta pack, and the 'security' meta pack, etc. > Or should there just be some sort of menu listing each package > individually, and let the sysadmin select them out? > How about a combination of the two, where the contents of the meta-package > are displayed, and the sysadmin has the option to install > anything/everything in the group? > I like this idea and it can be easily accomplished by grouping the packages in directories. Marc. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 06:05:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA22676 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:05:16 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA22667 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:05:13 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA03992 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:02:12 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA18380; 25 Mar 95 07:53:45 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA18377; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:53:45 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503251353.HAA18377@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:53:45 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503251127.MAA20462@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Mar 25, 95 12:27:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 340 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > He must have an excellent uptime, however. FreeBSD 1.1.5.1? Unix/V7? > CP/M 2.2? :^) "The Programmed Data Processor (PDP-1) is a high-speed, solid state digital computer designed to operate with many types of input-output devices with no internal machine changes..." PDP-1 handbook, Copyright 1960, Digital Equipment Corporation. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 06:05:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA22696 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:05:44 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA22688; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:05:41 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA03984 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:01:52 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA18209; 25 Mar 95 07:45:39 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA18206; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:45:38 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503251345.HAA18206@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:45:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503251057.KAA27832@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Mar 25, 95 10:57:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 442 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we > > supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. > Ok, this is reasonable since you're not going to be able to read our docs > without a viewer. Anyone want to write a freely-redistributable version > of mosaic or netscape, it would certainly be usefull. Chimera. Phoenix is prettier, but it's mindblowingly slow. See the Yahoo Browsers page. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 06:35:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA23260 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:35:07 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA23248 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:34:52 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA07006; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:33:30 GMT Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:33:29 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: Amancio Hasty cc: Mike Pritchard , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: <199503250217.CAA00373@star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) Because Netscape's distribution policy probably would not allow us to bundle it with a freely-available OS. :( > Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) Eeeewww. :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 06:52:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA23635 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:52:51 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA23629 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 06:52:47 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA07103; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:53:04 GMT Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:53:02 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: 2.0-950322-SNAP bindist error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could someone verify the bin.* segments on freefall and/or Walnut Creek's FTP archive? The ones on the local Taiwan mirror (netbsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw) are corrupted. The error is: # cat bin.* | tar -ztvf - drwxr-xr-x root/wheel 0 Mar 24 01:51 1995 ./ drwxr-xr-x bin/bin 0 Mar 24 00:34 1995 bin/ -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 49152 Mar 24 00:33 1995 bin/cat [...] -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 24576 Mar 24 00:37 1995 usr/bin/tfmtodit -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 24576 Mar 24 00:37 1995 usr/bin/addftinfo -r-xr-xr-x bin/bin 12288 Mar 24 00:37 1995 usr/bin/pfbtops gzip: stdin: invalid compressed data--format violated tar: Skipping to next file header... tar: child returned status 1 The bad segment appears to be bin.aw (i.e., everything up to bin.av gives me an "unexpected EOF" error). I'll keep trying to get through to ftp.freebsd.org tonight and grab that one segment. No errors were posted about bad checksums during the install, so I suspect that there really is a bad segment, or the checksums are somehow being skipped. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 07:27:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA24445 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:27:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA24437; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:27:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 95 23:10:30 GMT." <199503242310.XAA01112@star-gate.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:27:49 -0800 Message-ID: <24435.796145269@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Why would we add a tool to mh as part of the standard system when mh is > > NOT part of the standard system? It seems kind of foolish to me. > > Is not foolish obviously is by implication. Guys, guys! 1. Amancio is right, in principle. We do need a better applications suite like this at some point if we're to be taken seriously on the desktop. I am rather tired of people telling me about how they run Linux on their desktop and FreeBSD as their server because "Linux has such a nice desktop, and its interactive response for a single user is so much better." Perhaps, in the past, their response time WAS better, but I think David and John have gone a long ways towards fixing that, and we've always known that our *response curve* (e.g. as you add more users/processes) was quite a bit better. If we can add to this (either by port, package or dist) a very comfortable out-of-box configuration, we'll finally be able to tell them that they can run FreeBSD on BOTH. 2. Nate is right.. :-) We can't go down this road right now, at least not until we have a much better installation framework. If it weren't ALSO for the doc team's needs (and folks - the doc teams needs are PARAMOUNT right now - we have NO doc! :-( :-( ) I wouldn't have suggested lynx and httpd at all. So let's not let my earlier suggestion run away with us. That wasn't a call for the floodgates to open, it was a call for *two* tools. When we can truly "classify" each and every binary, library and include file in the system (perhaps thru a special Make variable) so that it automagically knows which dist to stick itself into, and we have things like a `netdist' and a `maildist' and a `whateverelsedist', THEN will be a good time to start soliciting suggestions for really expanding the system. For now, I suggest that we make the ports and packages a LOT more highly integrated into the installation process so that, to the user, the edge of distinction blurs. I agree with Amancio about providing out-of-box Internet solutions, I just don't agree that NOW is the time to start piling on the solutions. 2.1 is simply too imminent, and we've too much else to do right now. Who knows? If the package stuff starts looking *really* nice, we may even find that our need to package things into any of the base distributions goes away. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 07:36:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA24777 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:36:00 -0800 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA24771 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:35:57 -0800 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA05631; Sat, 25 Mar 95 15:35:47 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA11504; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:35:31 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:35:31 -0700 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9503251535.AA11504@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503242247.PAA17355@clem.systemsix.com> (message from Steve Passe on Fri, 24 Mar 1995 15:46:59 -0700) Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Passe writes: Steve> lynx/mosaic are appropriate for the new sgml/html based doc Steve> tree even without internet connection. However, it might make more sense to make our docs texinfo-based. They can be viewed with info(1), emacs, any HTML browser (with info2www), or professionally typeset and printed with TeX. --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 07:48:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA25126 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:48:53 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA25120; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:48:49 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id QAA26487 ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:49:02 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22566; Sat, 25 Mar 95 16:48:41 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503251548.AA22566@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:48:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503241723.RAA02360@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 24, 95 05:23:49 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 338 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) It would force us to integrate Tcl and Tk not undesirable but not small and mostly mh which is BIG and not IMNSHO the best one. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 08:23:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25518 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:23:45 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA25511; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:23:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: env-dependant symlinks [Was: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd)] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 11:32:27 +0100." <199503251032.LAA12525@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:23:43 -0800 Message-ID: <25510.796148623@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've seen this on Data General's DG/UX. They do have so-called > ``elinks'', i.e. symlinks starting with the string "elink:". They are > used to switch between different software development environments, > and they made their development tools (cc, as, ld, nm, ar) aware of > them, and resolve the paths there. Other tools can easily made aware > of them, too (including scripts), by simply looking what the links > points to, and resolving it in their own context. Hmmmm. Ack! I really don't like the idea of having to make all the tools aware of it - it just... rubs me the wrong way! What we REALLY need, I suppose, is a way for another daemon process to attach itself (well, maybe one or more daemons) and register itself as a "translator" somehow. It would also have to have a method for slurping context out of other processes if the environment expansion were to work, but I imagine that this isn't totally impossible.. What I'm sort of really driving at is QNX's approach (which Gary will remember a long conversation with them at CeBIT about :-). They have a mechanism whereby a daemon can connect and say to the system: "I own this part of the filename space" and the system will pass all such requests to it. The "longest match" wins in the matching algorithm, so if you have these two daemons: dev_fs (owning) /dev fd_fs (owning) /dev/fd Then an open of /dev/foo will get passed to the dev_fs daemon. If you open /dev/fd/1 then it will be passed to the fd_fs daemon. The fd_fs daemon gets precedence over /dev since it owns the longest match. My long conversation with them centered around whether or not it would be possible to own "non-UNIX parts of the filename space", e.g. register yourself as owning "^(.*)::(.*)$" (though perhaps not with that expensive a syntax, of course :-) and then get all DECNET file specifications. My favorite "URL filespec" would also be handled by registering yourself for "ftp://(.*)". They thought about this for a good long while and concluded that it would be cool and that they'd get back to me.. :-) There are serious reasons for wanting this, of course. The URL filespec would enable you to create meta-ftp servers which just contained many thousands of links to other places transparently. The DECNET filespec stuff would be VERY VERY useful for poor fools like myself who've been tasked with porting VMS legacy code onto UNIX. Hackers often like to hard-code stuff like this, and you could either pour through megabytes of spaghettic code looking for all such things (traditional method) or you could simply trap the filename lookups and do something sensible with them outside the program entirely. Assuming that a process's environment got more accessible to the system, you could even do the ${...} translation (register for ^(.*)\${(.*)}(.*)$). It would all be very very powerful and also very very expensive if you couldn't come up with a really nice and fast pattern matching algorithm for matching up an arbitrary name to any services that had registered for it. It wouldn't be THAT hard, of course. You do have the liberty of being able to precompile the patterns to an optimal form when the service daemon connects and registers its pattern, and the namei cache could probably be pressed creatively into service somehow. Oh well, I can dream, can't I? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 08:24:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25540 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:24:36 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA25533; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:24:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Paul Richards cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 10:57:15 GMT." <199503251057.KAA27832@isl.cf.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:24:34 -0800 Message-ID: <25532.796148674@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why do we need to add a server? You don't need a server to read the docs, Ask the docs folks. Apparently, you can get a local server to do document translation for you if it's running. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 08:36:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25689 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:36:06 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA25683 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:35:59 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA04976 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:32:37 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA21975; 25 Mar 95 10:25:22 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA21971; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:25:21 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503251625.KAA21971@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:25:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9503251535.AA11504@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Mar 25, 95 08:35:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1117 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Steve> lynx/mosaic are appropriate for the new sgml/html based doc > Steve> tree even without internet connection. > However, it might make more sense to make our docs texinfo-based. Please, no. Emacs and the info browser are not tools to proud of in a user friendly system. They're hard to learn, hard to integrate new text into, complex to configure and maintain, and not very versatile. The current direction, using Linuxdoc and converting from there to TeX or Info or HTML, is much better. The HTML browsers are easier to use (I'm always getting lost in info) and don't require a complex directory and file structure to access the docs (you can use lynx or mosaic or chimera or phoenix or whatever on any file). And with an httpd server, you can dynamically import any documents. Look at http://bonkers.neosoft.com/cgi-bin/ranger-list and ranger-search for an example... that's a newsgroup exported to the world wide web. Doing the same thing with man pages is just as easy. (I use texi2html for converting info documents myself, but give the users a user-friendly interface like lynx by default) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 08:42:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25785 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:42:18 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA25778; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:42:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Christoph P. Kukulies" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: README :-) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:09:25 +0100." <199503251209.NAA21758@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:42:17 -0800 Message-ID: <25777.796149737@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Fixed. /wcarchive/archive/pub/FreeBSD was out of space! :-( I had to delete the binaries for andrew and gnat out of the incoming directory. Sorry, folks, but until I get more space for FreeBSD on wcarchive, we're kinda limited! Jordan > In 2.0-950322-SNAP: > > Please read the file README > > README has 0 bytes. :-) > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de > FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Mar 22 > 04:54:59 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 08:45:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA25894 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:45:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA25887; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:45:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" cc: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:18:30 +0100." <199503251218.NAA04823@nietzsche> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:45:20 -0800 Message-ID: <25886.796149920@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We could retain the "catagory" information from the /usr/ports hierarchy somehow; that already groups ports pretty well.. Hey, Marc, speaking of which: You ever going to send me an update to pkg_manage? :-) Jordan > > > > Question: > > Should there be the concept of meta-packages? Ones which are just a > > collection of other packages, that is. If this was done, then there could > > be the 'super network' meta pack, and the 'security' meta pack, etc. > > Or should there just be some sort of menu listing each package > > individually, and let the sysadmin select them out? > > How about a combination of the two, where the contents of the meta-package > > are displayed, and the sysadmin has the option to install > > anything/everything in the group? > > > I like this idea and it can be easily accomplished by grouping the > packages in directories. > > Marc. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 09:18:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA27127 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:18:34 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA27121 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:18:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199503251718.JAA27121@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA02736; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:17:59 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Subject: Shipping w/ HTTPD BAD IDEA To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:17:58 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1429 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shipping the system with httpd/gopherd and other tools is a horrible idea. Whats wrong with keeping it as a standard port? Thats the BEST way to do it, especially given the wide variety of web servers out there (Personally NCSA's server is 10 times better than CERN's) and every joe user will want to install whichever they like best. How much more simple can it get to just go to the ports dir and do a make install? If you cant do that, you probably shouldnt be running a web server anyhow. Second problem, just who is going to decide "how" the server is configured, where the config/user files are actually placed on disk? Are we going to honestly stuff it right in the middle of the regular tree's or keep it nice and clean by placing it in /usr/local/web? How do you configure the subdirs? It seems to me that even if the server was shipped with FreeBSD, 85% of the folks would have to de-install the damn thing to get it installed "just how they like it". Keep these sorts of utilities as ports, please please, its much much cleaner that way. (Same thing holds for the clients, Im never gonna use Mosaic, Netscape is a thousand times better) -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 09:36:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA27902 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:36:25 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA27877 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:36:18 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA07210; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 01:25:03 GMT Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 01:25:02 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: 2.0-950322-SNAP bindist error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > > Could someone verify the bin.* segments on freefall and/or Walnut > Creek's FTP archive? The ones on the local Taiwan mirror > (netbsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw) are corrupted. The error is: The problem was with a missing file (bin.av) at the mirror site. Filling it in with bin.av from ftp.freebsd.org fixes the problem. Shouldn't the install script complain about missing files? I didn't catch it the first time around because a filename like bin.a[a-v] won't return an error (and thus I assumed bin.av was present). The install proceeded as if nothing happened. Of course, when I rebooted from the hard drive, all hell broke loose when the kernel couldn't find /usr/sbin, /usr/libexec, etc., etc. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 09:38:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA27975 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:38:06 -0800 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA27968 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:37:59 -0800 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA13795; Sat, 25 Mar 95 18:37:42 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id SAA22460; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:43:31 +0100 Message-Id: <199503251743.SAA22460@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: BRL CAD To: john@starfire.mn.org (John Lind) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:43:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) In-Reply-To: <199503251653.KAA20537@starfire.mn.org> from "John Lind" at Mar 25, 95 10:53:26 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 925 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Has anyone compiled BRL CAD for FreeBSD taht would care to share their > experience with me? I am getting a lot of grief from the "sysv" stuff > that I do not understand why it is trying to use or compile at all. > > John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services > E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 > I started a try to build it but the shells of brl-cad were so ill behaving that I didn't get ahead. I'm still asking myself what is so superior to 'cake' that it cannot be done by 'make'. I started to make some changes to the .sh scripts so that it understands a conditional FreeBSD but I never got very far with it. Please answer via email so we can exchange our experience. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Wed Mar 22 04:54:59 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 09:40:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA28043 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:40:19 -0800 Received: from GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.91]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA28036 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 09:40:17 -0800 Received: from localhost by GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa20868; 25 Mar 95 12:39 EST To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OOPS previous patch flawed In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:33:00 -0800. Reply-To: moto@CS.cmu.edu From: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:39:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20864.796153176@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, >>>>> "Julian" == Julian Elischer writes: Julian> NATURALLY I spotted a flaw in the patch just AFTER I posted Julian> it.. Julian> here is the fixed version.. Isn't this patch included in 950322-SNAP? Should this patch be applied to 2.0RELEASE, the latest SNAP or -current? I'd love to volunteer to test the scsi tape functionality. ============================================================================== Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 10:59:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA00327 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:59:39 -0800 Received: from relay1.UU.NET (relay1.UU.NET [192.48.96.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00321 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:59:37 -0800 Received: from news.cs.utexas.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQyipv03562; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:59:31 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.utexas.edu (root@mail.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.10]) by news.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA16312 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:59:27 -0600 Received: from uudell.us.dell.com (uudell.us.dell.com [143.166.224.6]) by mail.cs.utexas.edu (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA10752; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:59:25 -0600 Received: from obiwan by uudell.us.dell.com (5.67/dns1.3) with UUCP id AA26711; Sat, 25 Mar 95 18:54:47 GMT Received: by obiwan.uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rsaqK-00031pC; Sat, 25 Mar 95 12:45 CST Message-Id: From: obiwan!bob@uudell.us.dell.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: 2.0-950322-SNAP bindist error To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:45:47 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Mar 25, 95 10:53:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 513 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao wrote: > > Could someone verify the bin.* segments on freefall and/or Walnut > Creek's FTP archive? The ones on the local Taiwan mirror > (netbsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw) are corrupted. The error is: The ones I ftp'd last night from ftp.freebsd.org are alright. -- Bob Willcox ...!{rutgers|ames}!cs.utexas.edu!uudell!obiwan!bob Austin, TX or: @uudell.us.dell.com:obiwan!bob 512-258-4224 (home), 512-838-3914 (work) or: obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 11:16:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00665 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:16:19 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00659 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:16:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA21980 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:17:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199503251917.MAA21980@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 02:17:56 GMT." <199503250217.CAA00373@star-gate.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:17:27 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, >> > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > >Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) to have the source. >Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) i doubt it... Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 11:19:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00736 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:19:49 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00711 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:19:28 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA22001 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:20:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199503251920.MAA22001@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 10:57:15 GMT." <199503251057.KAA27832@isl.cf.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:20:40 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > Ok, this is reasonable since you're not going to be able to read our docs > without a viewer. not entirely true, their written in sgml, with both sgml to html AND sgml to ascii converters available. Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 11:33:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA00996 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:33:20 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00990 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:33:15 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA14246; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:37:13 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:37:13 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503251937.MAA14246@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty "Re: httpd as part of the system." (Mar 24, 11:10pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our > > > > system in an effort to both: > > ... > > > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) > > > > Why would we add a tool to mh as part of the standard system when mh is > > NOT part of the standard system? It seems kind of foolish to me. > > I really feel that in order to have an Internet Out Of The Box type > system we do need a grahical interface to mail. This is 1995 and > not a throw back to the early 70's. Then we better not provide MH as the mailer since it is non-trivial to use. Something like PINE would be the mailer to use, but it doesn't provide a GUI yet. > >(And NO, we're not going to add specific mailers to the distribution. It's > > Hashed out by whom ?? The entire -hackers list. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 11:55:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA02698 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:55:26 -0800 Received: from anvil.appsmiths.com (anvil.appsmiths.com [198.65.131.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA02686 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 11:55:24 -0800 Received: (from hoppy@localhost) by anvil.appsmiths.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA17886 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:54:49 -0600 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Message-Id: <199503251954.NAA17886@anvil.appsmiths.com> Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:54:49 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <25123.796089672@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 04:00:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 391 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk :: :: > How many people is Peter really? I'm figuring 3 myself. 900 article/day :: > posted, member of 1609 mailing lists, answers my email in about .018 seconds, :: > instantly follows up to anything and everything of import in blinding speed. :: :: Jaye, :: :: Peter and I are both perl scripts - didn't you know? :-) :: :: Jordan :: That would explain the Hubbard.core file. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 12:06:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA04758 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:06:52 -0800 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04736 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:06:49 -0800 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <176>; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:17:24 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:16:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: Steve Passe cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: <199503251917.MAA21980@clem.systemsix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Steve Passe wrote: > >> > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > > >Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) > > to have the source. > > >Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) > > i doubt it... Can Mosaic be compiled with LessTif? Anyone tried this? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 12:39:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA08144 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:39:53 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA08130 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:39:49 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA22312 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:41:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199503252041.NAA22312@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 08:35:31 MST." <9503251535.AA11504@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:41:19 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, >> Steve> lynx/mosaic are appropriate for the new sgml/html based doc >> Steve> tree even without internet connection. > However, it might make more sense to make our docs texinfo-based. > They can be viewed with info(1), emacs, any HTML browser (with > info2www), or professionally typeset and printed with TeX. I think there is (to be) a sgml2[info | tex] translator somewhere in the scheme (john f?). It was decided (after MUCH discussion) that we could best go from sgml to whatever we needed... Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 12:51:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA08957 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:51:25 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA08945; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:51:20 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA22360; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:52:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199503252052.NAA22360@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:27:49 PST." <24435.796145269@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:52:50 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > I am rather tired of people telling me about how they run Linux on their > desktop and FreeBSD as their server because "Linux has such a nice > desktop, and its interactive response for a single user is so much better." perhaps along with a "network tools group" we should put together a "desktop tools group". in it we could place: fvwm: customed to use m4 and some sample m4 type .fvwmrc files. customized GoodStuff tools. xfm: XFileManager, a nice answer to windoz file manager. It provides dragNdrop type application magament also. ???: other suggestions? We could create a usr stub in passwd called "xusr" that has a home directory setup with .xinitrc/.fvwmrc files that utilize the above. Then a newbie would merely log in as "xusr" to get a demo of what IS possible! Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 12:54:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09133 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:54:02 -0800 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA09127 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:54:01 -0800 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0rscqK-0000JeC; Sat, 25 Mar 95 12:53 PST Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA00179 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:53:22 -0800 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199503252053.MAA00179@io.cts.com> Subject: ed1: device timeout on -current? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:53:22 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 494 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 3/25 -current, NE1000 (used to work on 3/18 -current): Probing for devices on the ISA bus: ... ed1 at 0x300-0x31f irq 9 on isa ed1: address 00:00:1b:25:57:70, type NE1000 (8 bit) ... So far so good, but then later after all devices probed: ed1: device timeout ed1: device timeout Machines on the LAN are not reachable unless I watch netstat and wait for the timeouts. Then they're up and pingable. Is this some kind of cached carry over from the reboot after I installed 3/25 -current? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 12:54:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09177 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:54:36 -0800 Received: from expo.x.org ([198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09169 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:54:34 -0800 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA15941; Sat, 25 Mar 95 15:54:00 -0500 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA03422; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:53:59 -0500 Message-Id: <9503252053.AA03422@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:16:47 PST. Organization: X Consortium Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:53:59 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Steve Passe wrote: > > > >> > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > > > > >Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) > > > > to have the source. > > > > >Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) > > > > i doubt it... Mosaic has a bunch of wrappers to create generic gui objects, e.g. frames, forms, pushbuttons, menubars. There's sort of a one-to-one correspondence between the Mosaic Xmx objects and the Motif widgets. Someone who is ambitious could rewrite all these objects to use another widget set, but right now you need Motif. The only thing you can do without Motif is compile the HTML widget, which doesn't buy you much right now. > > Can Mosaic be compiled with LessTif? Anyone tried this? > Ha ha ha ha. You slay me. Wait, let me dry my eyes. Ahem, ah, sorry, couldn't help myself. Last I looked (about two weeks ago) there wasn't enough to LessTif to do more than write hello world. It's going to be a long while before there's enough of LessTif to build Mosaic. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 13:01:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA09638 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:01:03 -0800 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA09632 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:01:01 -0800 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0rscx6-000070C; Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:00 PST Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00192 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:00:22 -0800 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199503252100.NAA00192@io.cts.com> Subject: Not seeing disc at start up To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:00:22 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1092 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote about this before, but got no response to it. I'm wondering if this is just "the way it is" or a bug. Dmesg stripped down to the essentials: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Sat Mar 25 12:05:29 PST 1995 nca0 at 0x1f88-0x1f8b irq 12 on isa nca0: type ProAudioSpectrum-16 (nca0:1:0): "MEDIAVIS CDR-H93MV 1.41" is a type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(nca0:1:0): CD-ROM cd0(nca0:1:0): UNIT ATTENTION asc:28,0 cd0(nca0:1:0): Not ready to ready transition, medium may have changed cd0: could not get size drive empty pas0 at 0x388 irq 10 drq 3 on isa pas0: opl0 at 0x38a on isa opl0: There is a disc in the drive. -current installs prior to 3/10 would correctly indicate a disc in the drive and print the size. After all the new sound stuff went in earlier this month, it reports the "Not ready to ready transition" (is that a typo? What's that mean?), "cound not get size", and the lone "drive empty" on a new line. Yet, I can work with CDs just fine. So I'm thinking that there is something amiss in the startup probing phase. Comments? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 13:09:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10153 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:09:09 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10136 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:09:04 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA22447 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:10:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199503252110.OAA22447@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Shipping w/ HTTPD BAD IDEA In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:17:58 EST." <199503251718.JAA27121@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:10:34 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > whichever they like best. How much more simple can it get to just go to the > ports dir and do a make install? If you cant do that, you probably shouldnt be > running a web server anyhow. just because you don't have complete internet connectivity doesn't mean you can't put a server to good use. I have 3-4 Unix boxes on my home network with an httpd server running on one of them. I can access html files on it from any of the other systems. When I find a really usefull page that I access alot I pull it down to the local server and thereafter can access it locally (spell that MUCH FASTER!), granted sometimes with some editing. > ... as long as we package these things to be installed optionally it gives the user some choices. The big plus about Linux I hear from it's users is that they have a wealth of runnable programs to choose from WITHOUT having to be able to program or troubleshoot, or own large disks, or know enough to configure a complex tool, etc. Steve Passe smp@clem.systemsix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 13:15:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10648 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:15:46 -0800 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10628 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:15:37 -0800 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA01514; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 05:16:08 GMT Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 05:16:07 +0000 () From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: libgcc.so.261.0 In-Reply-To: <24879.796088457@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > PROBLEMS > -------- > If you want to run programs linked under 2.0, you will need the > file libgcc.so.261.0 too (which you'll find in this directory). > Install it in /usr/lib. Any performance gains in relinking binaries under the latest snapshot, or will having libgcc.so.261.0 be good enough? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 13:16:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10756 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:16:48 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10729 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:16:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA22484 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:18:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199503252118.OAA22484@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:37:13 MST." <199503251937.MAA14246@trout.sri.MT.net> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:18:10 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Then we better not provide MH as the mailer since it is non-trivial to > use. Something like PINE would be the mailer to use, but it doesn't > provide a GUI yet. not really defending mh, but with xmh (part of the standard X11R6 distribution) its usable... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 13:28:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA11917 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:28:15 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA11903 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:28:07 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA28168; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:31:47 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:31:47 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503252131.OAA28168@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Brian Tao "libgcc.so.261.0" (Mar 26, 5:16am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Brian Tao , FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: libgcc.so.261.0 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > PROBLEMS > > -------- > > If you want to run programs linked under 2.0, you will need the > > file libgcc.so.261.0 too (which you'll find in this directory). > > Install it in /usr/lib. > > Any performance gains in relinking binaries under the latest > snapshot, or will having libgcc.so.261.0 be good enough? Binaries linked under the new SNAP don't need the libgcc shared library. I suppose there is some measure of speed (albeit very small) by not using shared libgcc, but I wouldn't worry about it. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:05:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA14694 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:05:42 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA14688 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:05:37 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07561 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:49:55 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA25990; 25 Mar 95 13:33:26 CST (Sat) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA25987; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:33:25 -0600 Message-Id: <199503251933.NAA25987@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Charles Henrich Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Shipping w/ HTTPD BAD IDEA In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 12:17:58 EST." <199503251718.JAA27121@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:33:23 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk First of all, on the subject of cern versus ncsa... I've used both. In fact I'm using both. CERN is at least twice as fast, and has a lot more features. The only problem is that it's a little hairier to configure. This can be resolved by providing a decent sample configuration. Second, on why we want it... it's *not* to run as a web server. It's to provide a single interface to online documentation. You can point your lynx or netscape or mosaic to a file: url, but you can't do cgi that way. And it would be so cool to provide a cgi interface to man. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:06:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA14809 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:06:39 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA14784 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:06:30 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07559 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:49:33 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA25737; 25 Mar 95 13:28:27 CST (Sat) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA25733; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:28:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199503251928.NAA25733@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: env-dependant symlinks [Was: DEC Alpha Multia (fwd)] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 08:23:43 PST." <25510.796148623@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 13:28:23 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan says: >What we REALLY need, I suppose, is a way for another daemon process to >attach itself (well, maybe one or more daemons) and register itself as >a "translator" somehow. It would also have to have a method for >slurping context out of other processes if the environment expansion >were to work, but I imagine that this isn't totally impossible.. Sounds like a job for Portals. Also, the URL file spec seems to be handled well by ALEX... just extend it to support more than just FTP. I wouldn't do it by pattern matching on names, though. I've had a lot of experience on Xenix where this is a feature of OpenNET. You get all sorts of problems unless you name stuff *just right*. We ended up making *all* redirects (pre-namei pattern matches) start with "//". Symlinks are a superior mechanism. Anyway, the portal code should be in 4.4... you need to get someone with more kernel smarts than me to implement it though. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:07:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA14870 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:07:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA14864 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:07:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: The FreeBSD trademark. Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:07:40 -0800 Message-ID: <14863.796169260@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As part of the ongoing "FreeBSD Project, Inc" project, we need to trademark the name "FreeBSD". We currently have a request pending in the appropriate channels, but it's stuck on one small thing: UUNET Communications already has a trademark on the word "BSD", and in order to show that FreeBSD is a distinct term of its own we need to be able to cite two things: 1. Any articles (newspapers, magazines, general print media) that refer to "BSD" in any sort of generic way. The point is to show that "BSD" now refers to much more than just something coming out Berkeley, and is in fact more of a generic classification for a *type* of operating system rather than a specific one. 2. Any articles (see above) referring to FreeBSD in print. This will help us to establish our case that FreeBSD has become a distinct term of its own. I currently know of the April issue of iX magazine containing the FreeBSD 2.0 article (which I have an issue of) and this month's Unix Review (which I *don't* - anyone finished with theirs? :-). Can anyone think of any other citations that might be useful? Even URLS pointing to various network locations may be nice, since this could perhaps be convincingly argued to be "publication", depending on the sites in question. PLEASE - this is quite important. If you know of any such articles, or (better yet) have any such material at hand, I strongly urge you to either mail or FAX me a copy of the relevant bits. Even a pointer to a periodical where you remember having seen something is better than nothing since I can then call the magazine (please include such contact info if possible) and ask for a back-issue. Snail Mail Address: Jordan Hubbard 4041 Pike Lane, Suite D Concord CA, 94520 FAX: 1-510-674-0821 ATTN: Jordan Hubbard Your assistance in this matter is GREATLY appreciated! Please help us to get this trademark so that we can prevent any cheap knock-offs or other abuses of the name (don't laugh - this kind of thing is happening more and more often when less morally inclined persons figure they can make even a small buck doing so). Many thanks in advance, Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:12:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15044 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:12:00 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA15034 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:11:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199503252211.OAA15034@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA03491; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:11:23 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:11:23 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Apparently-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From henrich Sat Mar 25 17:10:04 1995 remote from crh Subject: Re: Shipping w/ HTTPD BAD IDEA To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:10:04 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199503251933.NAA25987@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 25, 95 01:33:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1528 Sender: henrich > First of all, on the subject of cern versus ncsa... I've used both. In fact I' > using both. CERN is at least twice as fast, and has a lot more features. The > only problem is that it's a little hairier to configure. This can be resolved > by providing a decent sample configuration. NCSA's is very very fast, I use it to server well over 3 million documents a month, and the server its on never breaks a load average of 1, nor do you even notice the web is running there. Its small tight and compact, CERN is big and bloated, I digress however, a religous war is precisely what I do not want, which is precisely why providing a server as part of the OS is not a good idea. >Second, on why we want it... it's *not* to run as a web server. It's to provid >a single interface to online documentation. You can point your lynx or netscap >or mosaic to a file: url, but you can't do cgi that way. And it would be so >cool to provide a cgi interface to man. Online documentation that relies on CGI scripts would "suck" (for lack of a better term). In that situation there is no good way to create printed documents from the online help system, and it also forces one to use a web client such as lynx. How long before man pages become useless web pages (ala AIX who chose to support a web-like useinterface to documentation that is 10 times more a pain in the ass to work with than man).. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:15:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15197 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:15:14 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15189; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:15:11 -0800 Received: from localhost.mcs.com (localhost.mcs.com [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04019; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:10:17 GMT Message-Id: <199503251410.OAA04019@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost.mcs.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Nate Williams , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 07:27:49 PST." <24435.796145269@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:10:14 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Who knows? If the package stuff starts looking *really* nice, we may even > find that our need to package things into any of the base distributions > goes away. > > Jordan Jordan, I didn't know that you were into mind reading!!! One of the things that I noticed about the install procedure was that it didn't list all the packages that could be install on the system. So I went into the package's directories did an ls and proceeded to type: pkg_add .... Also, some us want the entire core distribution to be installed and not have to wait five or twenty minutes to type yes to for the next package to be install. At any rate, I am not going to start a flame feast about this and providing "decent" user friendly net apps. I can only irritate people so many times so I better pick my topics carefully. (Kind of like the little boy who cried wolf too many times :) ) Peace & Hack Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:19:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15382 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:19:35 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15374; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:19:32 -0800 Received: from localhost.mcs.com (localhost.mcs.com [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04048; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:14:26 GMT Message-Id: <199503251414.OAA04048@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost.mcs.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:48:41 +0100." <9503251548.AA22566@blaise.ibp.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:14:24 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 3. exmh (a tcl/tk wrapper for mh it also understands MIME) > > It would force us to integrate Tcl and Tk not undesirable but not small > and mostly mh which is BIG and not IMNSHO the best one. > -- Please point me to a better mailer than exmh/mh which understands MIME and can also compose MIME. exmh currently can't compose MIME messages well at least not like some sort of GUI tool. THIS IS NOT A FLAME BAIT but a genuine request for a better mailer. If someone posts what they think is a good mailer, I will probably go out, build it, and check it out, then I will decided whether it suits my needs or not. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:27:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15741 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:27:30 -0800 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15734; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:27:28 -0800 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id XAA28262 ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 23:27:43 +0100 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24557; Sat, 25 Mar 95 23:27:22 +0100 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9503252227.AA24557@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 23:27:21 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503251414.OAA04048@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 95 02:14:24 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 964 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Please point me to a better mailer than exmh/mh which understands MIME > and can also compose MIME. exmh currently can't compose MIME messages > well at least not like some sort of GUI tool. I know of two but they're not free :-( Zmail (I got one version on my sparcbook) is great for composing and receiving MIME. I don't know if there is a version for BSDI. MEUF (Mail Extended Using Faces) is a free product currently in beta but author -- he's french and the product is quite good -- has some trouble releasing sources (he got to get a special authorization from his firm). Currently under SunOS and Solaris but not FreeBSD. I've offered to port it even if only under binary form but it is not stable enough yet and he's rewrinting parts with Motif :-( There is a big lack of full MIME compliant mailers... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:28:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15773 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:28:05 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA15766 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:28:02 -0800 Received: from localhost.mcs.com (localhost.mcs.com [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04112; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:22:54 GMT Message-Id: <199503251422.OAA04112@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost.mcs.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Steve Passe cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 12:17:27 MST." <199503251917.MAA21980@clem.systemsix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:22:52 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hello, > > >> > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > > >Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) > > to have the source. > > >Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) > > i doubt it... > > Steve Passe > smp@clem.systemsix.com I don't doubt it . I help start a flame feast on comp.windows.x to make sure that we indeed get a mosaic that didn't require motif and the authors did it. So please look at the sources or related patches which will enable Mosaic to be compiled without Motif. Peace & Hack Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:34:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15983 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:34:43 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA15977 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:34:40 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07872 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:34:10 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA29487; 25 Mar 95 16:04:01 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA29484 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:04:00 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503252204.QAA29484@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:04:00 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199503252052.NAA22360@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Mar 25, 95 01:52:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 516 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > fvwm: > customed to use m4 and some sample m4 type .fvwmrc files. > customized GoodStuff tools. The author of fvwm recommends you use ctwm instead. I'm running ctwm under 1.1 and it's absolutely beautiful once you get rid of the ghastly maroon twm color scheme. > xfm: > XFileManager, a nice answer to windoz file manager. It > provides dragNdrop type application magament also. It's nice... needs to be fixed to remember where you were in a directory before it did a rescan to be really useful. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:34:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15996 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:34:56 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA15990 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:34:52 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07863 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:33:43 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA29219; 25 Mar 95 16:00:15 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA29216; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:00:14 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503252200.QAA29216@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Jordan's new status.. To: hoppy@appsmiths.com (Clay D. Hopperdietzel) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:00:13 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503251954.NAA17886@anvil.appsmiths.com> from "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" at Mar 25, 95 01:54:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 152 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > :: Peter and I are both perl scripts - didn't you know? :-) > That would explain the Hubbard.core file. Ook! Ook! Bring it up under GDB! Clone him! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:35:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16022 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:35:23 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA16014 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:35:20 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07865 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:33:51 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA29292; 25 Mar 95 16:01:21 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA29289; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:01:21 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503252201.QAA29289@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:01:20 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom Samplonius" at Mar 25, 95 12:16:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 184 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Can Mosaic be compiled with LessTif? Anyone tried this? I was going to but I couldn't find a *working* pointer to lesstif. If someone can bounce one my way I'll give it a shot. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:35:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16039 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:35:55 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA16032 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:35:51 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA07870 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:34:00 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA29469; 25 Mar 95 16:03:18 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA29466; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:03:18 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503252203.QAA29466@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com (Steve Passe) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:03:18 -0600 (CST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503252052.NAA22360@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Mar 25, 95 01:52:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 506 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > fvwm: > customed to use m4 and some sample m4 type .fvwmrc files. > customized GoodStuff tools. The author of fvwm recommends you use ctwm instead. I'm running ctwm under 1.1 and it's absolutely beautiful once you get rid of the ghastly maroon twm color scheme. > xfm: > XFileManager, a nice answer to windoz file manager. It > provides dragNdrop type application magament also. It's nice... needs to be fixed to remember where you were in a directory before it did a rescan to be really useful. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:44:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16350 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:44:59 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA16344; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:44:57 -0800 Received: from localhost.mcs.com (localhost.mcs.com [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA04261; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:39:56 GMT Message-Id: <199503251439.OAA04261@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost.mcs.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 23:27:21 +0100." <9503252227.AA24557@blaise.ibp.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="boundary=_0" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:39:54 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multipart MIME message. --boundary=_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -------- > > Please point me to a better mailer than exmh/mh which understands MIME > > and can also compose MIME. exmh currently can't compose MIME messages > > well at least not like some sort of GUI tool. > > There is a big lack of full MIME compliant mailers... > -- Can I convince to go out and try exmh ? --boundary=_0 Content-Type: message/external-body; name="exmh-1.6beta.tar.Z"; site="ftp.xerox.parc.com"; access-type=ANON-FTP; directory="/pub/exmh"; mode="image" Content-Description: Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: --boundary=_0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:46:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16395 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:46:40 -0800 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA16388 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:46:39 -0800 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29585; Sat, 25 Mar 95 17:46:07 EST Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:46:03 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff To: Peter da Silva Cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Shipping w/ HTTPD BAD IDEA In-Reply-To: <199503251933.NAA25987@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > Second, on why we want it... it's *not* to run as a web server. It's to > provide a single interface to online documentation. You can point your lynx > or netscape or mosaic to a file: url, but you can't do cgi that way. And it > would be so cool to provide a cgi interface to man. If this is the reasoning behind including an http daemon with FreeBSD, I would suggest using the WN http daemon. My reasoning behind this is that it is fast, fairly easy to configure, and has some wicked-cool features built in such as context sensitive searches, title searches, etc, that would be _perfect_ for on-line documentation; it's a match made in heaven. Any comments? Jeff -- Jeff Hoffman -- jeffh@cybernetics.net ------------------------------------- "A man facing the light looks not into sorrow, but to to the future...always." WWW: http://www.cybernetics.net/users/jeffh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PGP Public Key available on request. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 14:50:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16514 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:50:05 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA16508 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:50:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199503252250.OAA16508@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA03599; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:49:24 -0500 From: Charles Henrich Subject: Re: Shipping w/ HTTPD BAD IDEA To: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:49:24 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jeff" at Mar 25, 95 05:46:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 924 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If this is the reasoning behind including an http daemon with FreeBSD, > I would suggest using the WN http daemon. My reasoning behind this is > that it is fast, fairly easy to configure, and has some wicked-cool > features built in such as context sensitive searches, title searches, > etc, that would be _perfect_ for on-line documentation; it's a match made > in heaven. > > Any comments? Why cant we make that an optional PORT directory item? I'd hate to end up in a position where one has no choice but to use pointy-clicky (arrowkeys in lynx ;) over man because at somepoint it was decided to stop supporting primarily the man style manual pages. I've just been burned so much by AIX's info system so much that I'd hate to be forced to use the same type thing under FreeBSD. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 15:05:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA17091 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:05:57 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA17083; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:05:53 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA08412; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:05:41 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503252305.PAA08412@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:05:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <14863.796169260@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 25, 95 02:07:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3495 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As part of the ongoing "FreeBSD Project, Inc" project, we need to > trademark the name "FreeBSD". > > We currently have a request pending in the appropriate channels, > but it's stuck on one small thing: > > UUNET Communications already has a trademark on the word "BSD", > and in order to show that FreeBSD is a distinct term of its own > we need to be able to cite two things: > > 1. Any articles (newspapers, magazines, general print media) that > refer to "BSD" in any sort of generic way. The point is to show > that "BSD" now refers to much more than just something coming out > Berkeley, and is in fact more of a generic classification for a > *type* of operating system rather than a specific one. > > 2. Any articles (see above) referring to FreeBSD in print. This will help > us to establish our case that FreeBSD has become a distinct term of > its own. > > I currently know of the April issue of iX magazine containing the > FreeBSD 2.0 article (which I have an issue of) and this month's Unix > Review (which I *don't* - anyone finished with theirs? :-). Can > anyone think of any other citations that might be useful? Even URLS > pointing to various network locations may be nice, since this could > perhaps be convincingly argued to be "publication", depending on the > sites in question. I have atleast the last year of Unix Reviews here, you will find through out it many times references to BSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD and BSDI BSD/OS. I am done with them and would be willing to send the whole year to you. There was a 3 part series by Steve Baker in the last 3 issues of Unix Review that cover the free OS's. There are at least a couple of references there. One other place to show that these are infact refering to different things is in Advertisements, like from TransArc or InfoMagic who list the different products. Oh, and the BSDisc cdrom itself claims BSDisc is a trademark of DiscNet, Inc.. Other trademark reference are BSDI is a trademark of BSDI Inc, this clearly shows that adding to the ``BSD'' is a trademarkable thing to do. Also the FAQ on the different unixes refer to the many variants of BSD and AT&T unixes for the x86 family would be a good one. > PLEASE - this is quite important. If you know of any such articles, > or (better yet) have any such material at hand, I strongly urge you to > either mail or FAX me a copy of the relevant bits. Even a pointer to > a periodical where you remember having seen something is better than > nothing since I can then call the magazine (please include such > contact info if possible) and ask for a back-issue. > > Snail Mail Address: > > Jordan Hubbard > 4041 Pike Lane, Suite D > Concord CA, 94520 > > FAX: 1-510-674-0821 > ATTN: Jordan Hubbard Let me know and I will UPS ship the whole last year of Unix Review to you. I don't have time to go selecting specific issues, easiest just to grab the whole stack and shove it in a box. > Your assistance in this matter is GREATLY appreciated! Please help us > to get this trademark so that we can prevent any cheap knock-offs or > other abuses of the name (don't laugh - this kind of thing is > happening more and more often when less morally inclined persons > figure they can make even a small buck doing so). > > Many thanks in advance, > > Jordan > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 15:11:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA17232 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:11:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA17222; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:11:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Steve Passe cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:41:19 MST." <199503252041.NAA22312@clem.systemsix.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:11:18 -0800 Message-ID: <17221.796173078@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think there is (to be) a sgml2[info | tex] translator somewhere in > the scheme (john f?). It was decided (after MUCH discussion) that we > could best go from sgml to whatever we needed... As much as I'm a fan of info (historical reasons harkening back to my ITS days, I suppose), I don't think that it's a very good overall documention solution. That pesky dir file requires updating everytime you add another top level subject, rather than just being able to place something in a directory and publishing the path to it, and things quickly become unwieldy. Also, as others have already said, info is somewhat arcane and really aimed more at hackers than new users. I'd be happy to see our SGML stuff be formatted into BOTH formats (since I'm an info user myself) with some creative solution for the dir file, but I wouldn't want to push it as the #1 solution. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 15:22:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA17665 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:22:18 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA17623 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:21:41 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10640; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:21:26 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id AAA13949; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:21:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA27542; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:18:28 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199503252318.AAA27542@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Not seeing disc at start up To: root@io.cts.com (Morgan Davis) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:18:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503252100.NAA00192@io.cts.com> from "Morgan Davis" at Mar 25, 95 01:00:22 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 451 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Morgan Davis wrote: > > cd0(nca0:1:0): Not ready to ready transition, medium may have changed > (is that a typo? What's that mean?), I don't think this is a typo. Your drive seems to notify the SCSI bus with a unit attention after the initialization, indication a ``not ready to ready transition''. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 15:24:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA17737 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:24:12 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA17730; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:24:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Steve Passe cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 13:52:50 MST." <199503252052.NAA22360@clem.systemsix.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:24:11 -0800 Message-ID: <17729.796173851@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > perhaps along with a "network tools group" we should put together > a "desktop tools group". in it we could place: > > fvwm: > customed to use m4 and some sample m4 type .fvwmrc files. > customized GoodStuff tools. > > xfm: > XFileManager, a nice answer to windoz file manager. It > provides dragNdrop type application magament also. This is already sort of in motion. Add to this: 1. The Unix Cockpit(tm), for which the author has made substantial changes in the license agreement specifically for us. 2. An xanim animation of the FreeBSD logo going in a corner (Dave Cornejo did an amazing one for FreeBSD 2.0 and I'm waiting for his 2.1 version). 3. Perhaps the SimCity demo? :-) 4. Perhaps the WordPerfect demo? :-) 5. ??? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 15:29:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA18039 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:29:52 -0800 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18032 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:29:50 -0800 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA17875; Sat, 25 Mar 95 18:29:15 -0500 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA03666; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:29:15 -0500 Message-Id: <9503252329.AA03666@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 25 Mar 1995 14:22:52 GMT. <199503251422.OAA04112@star-gate.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:29:14 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > > > > >Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) > > > > to have the source. > > > > >Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) > > > > i doubt it... > > I don't doubt it . > I help start a flame feast on comp.windows.x to make sure that > we indeed get a mosaic that didn't require motif and the authors did it. > > So please look at the sources or related patches which will enable > Mosaic to be compiled without Motif. > 2.5 is the latest, released a couple of weeks ago, and it does require Motif. I'm not aware of any patch that allows it to be compiled without Motif. If you want to start a flame fest to try to provoke someone into writing it, well, I guess we'll see how well that works. Off hand I'd prefer not to have a flame fest in comp.windows.x. How about in comp.infosystems.www instead? :-) Changing the subject slightly, if you want justification for using SGML/HTML, I'll just point out that Linux has been distributing docs (not man pages) in SGML for some time now, and XFree86 started using SGML/HTML with the recent release of 3.1.1. The world is moving that way; it's too late to lead, so you better get in line and follow. :-) Whether or not you distribute an httpd or a browser, you should at least have the docs SGML-ized, because it's a certainty that almost everyone is going to get one or the other or both if you don't have one as part of the base system. -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 15:31:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA18102 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:31:15 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18094; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:31:13 -0800 Received: by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33(web)-OV4) id PAA15136; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:31:09 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 15:31:09 -0800 (PST) From: Yu Sylvia Fong Subject: FreeBSD Connected to Wyse Terminals? To: jkh@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone have information on connecting Wyse 30 terminals to a machine running FreeBSD 2.0? What kind of cables and adjustments would be required? The terminals would be used for users to log in and do basic stuff such as checking mail and such. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 16:35:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA20222 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:35:14 -0800 Received: from GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.91]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA20216 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:35:13 -0800 Received: from localhost by GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa21042; 25 Mar 95 19:34 EST From: moto@CS.cmu.edu To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: lnc0 support for installation Reply-To: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:34:25 -0500 Message-ID: <21040.796178065@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I tried to install 950322-SNAP and found out that there was no support for lnc0 (NE2100) in the network installation procedure (i.e. ftp, NFS). Why not? There is nothing special and should be supported as other devices (ed0, de0, etc.) are. ============================================================================== Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 16:45:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA20432 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:45:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA20425; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:45:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: moto@CS.cmu.edu cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: lnc0 support for installation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 19:34:25 EST." <21040.796178065@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:45:53 -0800 Message-ID: <20424.796178753@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think we simply forgot it! Sorry! :-( I'll make sure this makes it into the next snapshot.. Jordan > Hi, > > I tried to install 950322-SNAP and found out that there was no support > for lnc0 (NE2100) in the network installation procedure (i.e. ftp, > NFS). Why not? There is nothing special and should be supported as > other devices (ed0, de0, etc.) are. > > ============================================================================= = > Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student > e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 > WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html > TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 > ============================================================================= = > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 16:59:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA21218 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:59:11 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA21211 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:59:10 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA19616; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:59:01 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503260059.QAA19616@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: lnc0 support for installation To: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 16:59:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <21040.796178065@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> from "moto@CS.cmu.edu" at Mar 25, 95 07:34:25 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 898 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I tried to install 950322-SNAP and found out that there was no support > for lnc0 (NE2100) in the network installation procedure (i.e. ftp, > NFS). Why not? There is nothing special and should be supported as > other devices (ed0, de0, etc.) are. Well, would you belive me if I said that we forgot it ? I have put it on my list now. Here's what you can do: At the first screen, select "No" to get a single-user shell ifconfig (and all that) mkdir /usr/tmp ftp the dists into /usr/tmp ^D Now you have the menu again, select "Yes" Choose the dists you want Choose "UFS" installation At the shell prompt: ^D Enter /usr/tmp for the path And you should be humming... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 17:06:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA21422 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:06:35 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA21414 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:06:33 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA08887 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:03:15 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA02945; 25 Mar 95 18:40:39 CST (Sat) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA02942; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:40:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199503260040.SAA02942@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Steve Passe , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 14:22:52 GMT." <199503251422.OAA04112@star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:40:33 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I help start a flame feast on comp.windows.x to make sure that >we indeed get a mosaic that didn't require motif and the authors did it. Where? Mosaic 2.5 doesn't have any reference to a Motif-free version. Could you provide pointers for this? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 17:14:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA21492 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:14:33 -0800 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA21486 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:14:30 -0800 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id UAA25673; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:08:53 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:08:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: P.S. [images] To: Terry Lambert cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9503250636.AA13819@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 24 Mar 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > 20 oz coffe cups, jordan? > > > > Gee, somehow I don't think that was the technique my doctor had in > > mind when he said I *must* get my coffee consumption below 5 cups > > a day! But it works for me!!!! :-) > > I agree -- just how big are australian coffee cups anyway? big enough for a fosters. with slosh room remaining at the top. Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 17:49:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA22017 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:49:34 -0800 Received: from GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.91]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA22011 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 17:49:33 -0800 Received: from localhost by GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa21087; 25 Mar 95 20:48 EST From: moto@CS.cmu.edu To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: empty extract.sh on srcdist Reply-To: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:48:33 -0500 Message-ID: <21085.796182513@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, There is empty files on ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.0-950322-SNAP/src -rwxr-xr-x 1 jkh wheel 0 Mar 25 05:03 do_cksum.sh -rw-r--r-- 1 jkh wheel 0 Mar 25 05:03 extract.sh Is this also due to the 'disk full' on wcarchive? ============================================================================== Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 18:05:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA22327 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:05:45 -0800 Received: from lyria.stanford.edu (lyria.Stanford.EDU [36.146.0.57]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA22321 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:05:45 -0800 Received: (from teren@localhost) by lyria.stanford.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA08856; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:13:14 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:13:14 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Lee To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad In-Reply-To: <199503241541.PAA05826@deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On a SCSI bus, I can have multiple drives and if I balance the load on the drives then I am able to increase the overall throughput of my disk subsystem up to the theoretical max of 10 MB/s right? Is this true for IDE or E-IDE? E-IDE can achieve bus throughput > 10 MB/s but there are few drives that can sustain such transfers. But if I have two drives on the same IDE adapter and I balance the load across the two drives, will I get the same performance benefit as with multiple SCSI drives? What if I have two drives on two different IDE adapters? Terry I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 18:13:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA22573 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:13:52 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA22567 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:13:50 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA19802; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:13:45 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503260213.SAA19802@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: teren@lyria.stanford.edu (Terry Lee) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:13:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Terry Lee" at Mar 25, 95 06:13:14 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 817 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On a SCSI bus, I can have multiple drives and if I balance the load on > the drives then I am able to increase the overall throughput of my disk > subsystem up to the theoretical max of 10 MB/s right? > > Is this true for IDE or E-IDE? E-IDE can achieve bus throughput > 10 > MB/s but there are few drives that can sustain such transfers. But if I > have two drives on the same IDE adapter and I balance the load across the > two drives, will I get the same performance benefit as with multiple SCSI > drives? > > What if I have two drives on two different IDE adapters? IDE still needs to CPU to actually move the data... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 18:22:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA23057 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:22:02 -0800 Received: from lyria.stanford.edu (lyria.Stanford.EDU [36.146.0.57]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23048; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:22:01 -0800 Received: (from teren@localhost) by lyria.stanford.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA08896; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:29:30 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:29:30 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Lee To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > (I think it's the CERN httpd). Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone. CERN seems to have more features, but my experience so far is that there are many many more NCSA httpd installations out there. This can be a serious problem since administration can be quite different on the two systems. If you want to raise httpd to a standard component, I'd recommend NCSA since it seems to be the more standard standard. Best regards, Terry I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 18:23:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA23136 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:23:34 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23128 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:23:31 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA08801; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:23:13 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199503260223.SAA08801@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: teren@lyria.stanford.edu (Terry Lee) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:23:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Terry Lee" at Mar 25, 95 06:13:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1387 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On a SCSI bus, I can have multiple drives and if I balance the load on > the drives then I am able to increase the overall throughput of my disk > subsystem up to the theoretical max of 10 MB/s right? Pretty much true, except you'll never get to 10MB/sec due to SCSI bus over head (device arbitration time). > Is this true for IDE or E-IDE? E-IDE can achieve bus throughput > 10 > MB/s but there are few drives that can sustain such transfers. But if I > have two drives on the same IDE adapter and I balance the load across the > two drives, will I get the same performance benefit as with multiple SCSI > drives? Yes, and the bus arbitration time is much shorter for E-IDE. > What if I have two drives on two different IDE adapters? Or two drives on two scsi controllers. You simply move the arbitration up one level doing this. ISA bus would be about the same, PCI would be much faster. This last one is the move towards what mainframe systems do. A IBM I/O channel is only 3MB/sec, but you have many channels in a typical system. One channel to each DASD controller, often you only put 1 or 2 drives on a controller (so you don't saturate the channel). You often see 8 or 16 channels just for DASD use. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 18:32:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA23471 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:32:43 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23465 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:32:42 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA19879; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:32:30 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503260232.SAA19879@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Why IDE is bad To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:32:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: teren@lyria.stanford.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503260223.SAA08801@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Mar 25, 95 06:23:12 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 815 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This last one is the move towards what mainframe systems do. A IBM > I/O channel is only 3MB/sec, but you have many channels in a > typical system. One channel to each DASD controller, often you only > put 1 or 2 drives on a controller (so you don't saturate the channel). > > You often see 8 or 16 channels just for DASD use. I recently tested some performance issues of a VERY big mainframe. Each disk could only do about 2 Mb/sec writes, but they could run "around 50 disks per application" in parallel, they weren't quite sure what the number was or where the limitation was, they had never had a problem with it so far... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 18:41:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA23996 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:41:53 -0800 Received: from lyria.stanford.edu (lyria.Stanford.EDU [36.146.0.57]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA23989 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:41:52 -0800 Received: (from teren@localhost) by lyria.stanford.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA08943; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:49:18 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:49:18 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Lee To: Terry Lambert cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: <9503242120.AA11658@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Actually, this seems to me to be more of an install question than it > > is a system component question. We're already splitting up our > > "standard" dist into multiple components anyway, what say you to a > > `netplus' distribution? > > Maybe configuration specific distribution sets, then? > > I don't really recognize the distinction between a standard component > and a port... I think there is a big difference. There are too many programs in ports. And the same goes for packages. I think your average customer would really appreciate someone who knows better, putting together a "standard/typical ports" package. I think the average user has a hard time sifting through the many programs in packages and ports. Just my 2 cents. All the best, Terry Lee I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 19:02:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA24394 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:02:25 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24387; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:02:19 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA01532; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:03:02 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503260303.DAA01532@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:03:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <25532.796148674@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 25, 95 08:24:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 689 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > > Why do we need to add a server? You don't need a server to read the docs, > > Ask the docs folks. Apparently, you can get a local server to do document > translation for you if it's running. > Umm, a local client can read local files, no need for a server at all. Some servers do some specific server related things, NCSA does this but we shouldn't rely on this yet since it's server dependent. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 19:04:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA24449 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:04:48 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA24441 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:04:43 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA09664 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:57:33 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA07409; 25 Mar 95 20:56:38 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA07406 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:56:37 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503260256.UAA07406@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Mosaic without Motif (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:56:37 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 455 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here's what NCSA said about this: Me> I've been informed there's a set of patches available to build Mosaic Me> without Motif. If so, then if it's not to much trouble could you point Me> me at them? >Hi there -- I'd love to, but I have no idea where they are! (If you >find them, could you send me mail and let me know where you found them, >so I can point other folks there as well?) >Sorry, and thanks! >Mitch Kutzko >NCSA Mosaic Technical Support From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 19:07:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA24562 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:07:58 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24556 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:07:53 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA01567; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:08:21 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503260308.DAA01567@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com (Steve Passe) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:08:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503251917.MAA21980@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Mar 25, 95 12:17:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 652 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Steve Passe who said > > Hello, > > >> > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > > >Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) > > to have the source. > > >Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) > > i doubt it... > I seem to recall that they did release such a version when people complained about it. Someone who follows this might like to find it for us. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 19:20:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA25003 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:20:47 -0800 Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA24993 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:20:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA24160 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:22:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199503260322.UAA24160@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: empty extract.sh on srcdist In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:48:33 EST." <21085.796182513@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:22:06 -0700 From: Steve Passe Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > There is empty files on ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.0-950322-SNAP/src I guess this might explain why after installing src there was nothing there! they are on freefall, (README also) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 19:21:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA25021 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:21:46 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25014 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 19:21:41 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA01634; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:22:02 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503260322.DAA01634@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: lnc0 support for installation To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:22:02 +0000 (GMT) Cc: moto@CS.cmu.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503260059.QAA19616@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 25, 95 04:59:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 737 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Poul-Henning Kamp who said > > > I tried to install 950322-SNAP and found out that there was no support > > for lnc0 (NE2100) in the network installation procedure (i.e. ftp, > > NFS). Why not? There is nothing special and should be supported as > > other devices (ed0, de0, etc.) are. > > Well, would you belive me if I said that we forgot it ? > I have put it on my list now. > This is because lnc0 is a new driver and we've forgotten to add suuport for it. It'll get done. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 20:04:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA26874 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:04:49 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA26866 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:04:43 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA09929 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:37:07 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA08636; 25 Mar 95 21:36:18 CST (Sat) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA08633 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:36:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199503260336.VAA08633@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bonkers.taronga.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Mosaic with Lesstif In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 95 12:17:58 EST." <199503251718.JAA27121@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.4.1 7/21/94 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:36:16 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nope, it's Not There Yet. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 20:15:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA27256 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:15:33 -0800 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA27250 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:15:30 -0800 Received: from localhost.mcs.com (localhost.mcs.com [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA00342; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:10:01 GMT Message-Id: <199503252010.UAA00342@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost.mcs.com didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Paul Richards cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com (Steve Passe), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Mar 1995 03:08:20 GMT." <199503260308.DAA01567@isl.cf.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:09:46 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reply to Steve Passe who said > > > > Hello, > > > > >> > Mosaic requires Motif :-<. > > > > > >Why bother with Mosaic when there is Netscape :) > > > > to have the source. > > > > >Also, I think that you can compile Mosaic with Xt or Xlib and no motif :) > > > > i doubt it... > > > > I seem to recall that they did release such a version when people complained > about it. Someone who follows this might like to find it for us. > Okay, I will try to go out and find it it was about a year ago and was posted on comp.windows.x after I and several others complained about mosaic using Motif. From what I can recollect it only took them a couple of days to re-write the relevant portions which required motif. Personally, I would just talk to Netscape,Inc and ask them if we can include Netscape in our distribution. I really don't see any big deal about this. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 20:29:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28043 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:29:01 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28035 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:28:56 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA02039; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 05:29:06 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503260429.FAA02039@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 04:29:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503252010.UAA00342@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Mar 25, 95 08:09:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1282 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Amancio Hasty who said > > Okay, I will try to go out and find it it was about a year ago and > was posted on comp.windows.x after I and several others complained > about mosaic using Motif. From what I can recollect it only took them > a couple of days to re-write the relevant portions which required motif. That would be good. > > Personally, I would just talk to Netscape,Inc and ask them if we can include > Netscape in our distribution. I really don't see any big deal about this. They'll never give us source and last time I contacted them they wouldn't even do a FreeBSD binary. I guess we could get them to allow us to ship the BSDI binary in the suitable area of ports if we ask them nicely but that's not really what we want. Netscape recognises some much nicer features of an extended HTML. Look at my home page using Mosaic and Netscape and you'll find it looks much nicer with Netscape because my home page uses some Netscape specific features. It displays fine with Mosaic but it doesn't look as nice. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 20:28:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28037 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:28:59 -0800 Received: from amalfi.trl.OZ.AU (amalfi.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.99.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28024; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:28:50 -0800 Received: from orca1.vic.design.telecom.com.au ([145.136.55.131]) by amalfi.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04655; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 15:26:27 +1000 Received: from netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au by orca1.vic.design.telecom.com.au with SMTP (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA02514; Sun, 26 Mar 95 14:24:33 +1000 Received: from netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au [144.139.63.32]) by netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA15351; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 12:47:24 +0800 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 12:47:23 +0800 (WST) From: Terry Dwyer To: Terry Lee Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Terry Lee wrote: > > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > > (I think it's the CERN httpd). > > Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone. > > CERN seems to have more features, but my experience so far is that there > are many many more NCSA httpd installations out there. This can be a > serious problem since administration can be quite different on the two > systems. If you want to raise httpd to a standard component, I'd > recommend NCSA since it seems to be the more standard standard. Some of what you say is certainly true, NCSA does seem to be a more of a "standard". Here are a couple of reasons why I think this is the case. 1) People look at NCSA software and (probably) by association with Mosaic and Netscape think NCSA == WWW. I've tried the NCSA server, and it certainly is easy to build and performs admirably. This does not necessarily mean it should become the default server. 2) Configuration of the CERN server is much more complex and although there are a pile of docs for it, why bother to build a more complex package when a simple one will do. If there is to be a "default" server it should serve the needs of everyone, including those who would be otherwise left looking for a solution that others already have - i.e., those behind a firewall. I am in such a position, so had to setup a proxy to a proxy, which the NCSA server cannot do, it can't even do a simple proxy. This is not an easy task if you have to build and install socks as well. If the CERN server and socks were provided as a complementary pair with an appropriate install and configuration script which built, installed and configured (optionally) both or just the CERN server, the needs of all users could be met. I don't think size is an issue, after all, the directories containing the html stuff are likely to grow to such a size as to make the binaries insignificant. They have on my server anyway. You raise the issue of administration. I don't understand why this would be a problem, if you have the NCSA server you administer it, if you have the CERN server you administer it. Anyone ambitious enough to run multiple different servers should become famimiar with both or just run one. I understand the firewall code is already implemented in 2.x, why shouldn't we also be able to have a proxying W3 server running on the same gateway? Just my humble opinion, FWIW _-_|\ Terry Dwyer E-Mail: tdwyer@netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au / \ System Administrator Phone: +61 9 491 5161 Fax: +61 9 221 2631 *_.^\_/ Telecom Australia Telstra Corporation MIME capable mailer v Perth WA ( I do not speak for Telstra or Telecom ) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 20:46:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA28952 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:46:01 -0800 Received: from amalfi.trl.OZ.AU (amalfi.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.99.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA28917 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 20:45:56 -0800 Received: from orca1.vic.design.telecom.com.au ([145.136.55.131]) by amalfi.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA04960; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 15:43:56 +1000 Received: from netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au by orca1.vic.design.telecom.com.au with SMTP (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA02578; Sun, 26 Mar 95 14:42:01 +1000 Received: from netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au [144.139.63.32]) by netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA15448; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 13:04:51 +0759 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 13:04:50 +0800 (WST) From: Terry Dwyer To: Terry Lee Cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Mar 1995, Terry Lee wrote: [...] > I think there is a big difference. There are too many programs in ports. > And the same goes for packages. I think your average customer would > really appreciate someone who knows better, putting together a > "standard/typical ports" package. I think the average user has a hard > time sifting through the many programs in packages and ports. (I hope I have the context of the above correct - if not apologies in advance) Sorry, but I have to disagree. I think the average customer, (does this translate to user?), has a hell of a good time sifting through ports, I knowI do ;-), or they would not have bothered installing FreeBSD in the first place. People don't _always_ install an operating system just to hack on the kernel. If there are a good range of packages and ports it enhances the desirability of the operating system. Regards, Terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 21:04:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA29831 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:04:48 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA29821 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:04:44 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA10398 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:47:17 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA09737; 25 Mar 95 22:35:08 CST (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA09734; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:35:07 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503260435.WAA09734@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:35:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503260415.EAA01937@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Mar 26, 95 04:15:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 250 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I think we can rely on cgi-bin. > No you can't. Some servers interperate (sp?) inline code while others do not. What does that have to do with cgi-bin? It's pretty solidly documented and identical between NCSA and CERN. Same for forms support. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 21:12:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA00604 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:12:18 -0800 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA00598 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:12:15 -0800 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA29309; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:16:08 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:16:08 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199503260516.WAA29309@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Amancio Hasty "Re: httpd as part of the system." (Mar 25, 2:14pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Amancio Hasty Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Please point me to a better mailer than exmh/mh which understands MIME > and can also compose MIME. exmh currently can't compose MIME messages > well at least not like some sort of GUI tool. I'm pretty sure VM-mode in XEmacs can do it. And, XEmacs 19.12 (due out RSN I hear) will also have tty support, so you can use it in X mode and/or character mode. XEmacs is a very nice extensible editor, mail reader, news reader, spell-checker, and whatever else you can think. We're getting closer to booting kernel.el all the time. :-) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 21:15:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA00672 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:15:10 -0800 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA00666; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:15:09 -0800 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA20809; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:14:55 -0800 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199503260514.VAA20809@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:14:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199503260303.DAA01532@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Mar 26, 95 03:03:01 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 798 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > > > > Why do we need to add a server? You don't need a server to read the docs, > > > > Ask the docs folks. Apparently, you can get a local server to do document > > translation for you if it's running. > > > > Umm, a local client can read local files, no need for a server at all. Some > servers do some specific server related things, NCSA does this but we > shouldn't rely on this yet since it's server dependent. I agree. Next after the once-per-second-check-for-SummerTime running a httpd to server local files is the most wastefull thing I have heard about. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 21:42:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA01386 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:42:29 -0800 Received: from pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (root@pluto.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01380 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 21:42:27 -0800 Received: from metal.ops.neosoft.com (root@glenn-slip47.nmt.edu [129.138.5.147]) by pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id XAA20983; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 23:42:19 -0600 Received: (from smace@localhost) by metal.ops.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.10) id WAA01691; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:42:15 -0700 From: Scott Mace Message-Id: <199503260542.WAA01691@metal.ops.neosoft.com> Subject: Re: Mosaic with Lesstif To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:42:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503260336.VAA08633@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 25, 95 09:36:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 107 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Nope, it's Not There Yet. > Didn't someone post abut a free motif implentation a while back? Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 22:17:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02106 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:17:28 -0800 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA02100 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:17:27 -0800 Received: from wcs.uq.edu.au (actually juno.wcs.uq.edu.au) by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au with SMTP (PP); Sun, 26 Mar 1995 16:17:17 +1000 Received: by wcs.uq.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00521; Sun, 26 Mar 95 16:17:10 EST From: Gary Roberts Message-Id: <9503260617.AA00521@wcs.uq.edu.au> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: teren@lyria.stanford.edu (Terry Lee) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 16:17:09 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Terry Lee" at Mar 25, 95 06:49:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1901 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lee writes: > > I don't really recognize the distinction between a standard component > > and a port... > > I think there is a big difference. There are too many programs in ports. > And the same goes for packages. I think your average customer would > really appreciate someone who knows better, putting together a > "standard/typical ports" package. I think the average user has a hard > time sifting through the many programs in packages and ports. I couldn't agree more. With crashing disk prices ( :-> ), many users, myself included would love to see several meta-paks (the top 10 .... pak, etc, where ... is a general theme or interest area), as a good excuse to go buy that extra drive (even a BAD IDE one :->). Take the example of sound, video, multi-media, etc, I'm sure users would really be attracted to a meta-pak to get them started. Getting started is always the hard part. Whilst (for an experienced user) it is easy enough to go into the ports area, configure and make your own, when you have to do this multiple times, it is a real disincentive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all complaining. I have the greatest of admiration and respect for what the team and the contributors have achieved in such a short time. But I really feel the writer of the jkh perl script got it absolutely right to want an all singing, all dancing install, etc. Inexperienced users don't want (or need) to be hassled by complicated configuration and installation procedures. They just want to sample what's available pre-configured, and when they've got enough experience, they can always delete the meta-pak and then reconfigure and install their own particular preferences. > Just my 2 cents. and mine. > Terry Lee Cheers, -- Gary Roberts (gary@wcs.uq.edu.au) (Ph +617 844 0400 Fax +617 844 0444) 4th Floor, South Bank House, 234 Grey St, South Bank QLD 4101 Australia. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 22:23:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02254 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:23:23 -0800 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA02248 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:23:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199503260623.WAA02248@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA04780; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 01:22:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 01:22:40 -0500 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: httpd as part of the system (Netscape) X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Im sure you could coax the folks who are producing Arena to do a FreeBSD port, or allow one of us to. Its a *very* nice browser that supports more HTML3 than even Netscape.. Its a bit bare bones on the nicities (no bookmarks for example) but it is free... There are links to it on CERN's web pages. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 22:34:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02403 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:34:48 -0800 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA02396 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:34:45 -0800 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA11070 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:32:54 -0600 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA10947; 26 Mar 95 00:00:25 CST (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA10944 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:00:25 -0600 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199503260600.AAA10944@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: CERN and NCSA httpd... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 00:00:23 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 790 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -rwxrwxr-x 1 root 380534 Nov 22 22:10 /usr/local/cern/bin/httpd text data bss dec hex 339968 8192 5888 354048 56700 -rwxrwxr-x 1 peter 320760 Feb 23 21:29 /usr/local/etc/httpd/httpd text data bss dec hex 94208 4096 974340 1072644 105e04 That looks like CERN's a major pig, but in practice, after accessing both to read the same page (CERN proxying for NCSA after deleting the cached page in the CERN proxy cache): USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND root 112 0.0 0.9 516 124 ?? S Tue07PM 0:05.63 /usr/local/cern/bin/httpd root 109 0.0 0.4 1224 56 ?? Ss Tue07PM 0:25.83 /usr/local/etc/httpd/httpd Perhaps the CERN daemon has better locality? What's NCSA holding on in it's megabyte-odd of BSS, too? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Mar 25 22:53:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02548 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:53:08 -0800 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA02542 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 1995 22:53:07 -0800 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA02530; Sun, 26 Mar 1995 07:53:36 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199503260653.HAA02530@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 1995 06:53:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503260435.WAA09734@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Mar 25, 95 10:35:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 940 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Peter da Silva who said > > > > I think we can rely on cgi-bin. > > > No you can't. Some servers interperate (sp?) inline code while others do not. > > What does that have to do with cgi-bin? It's pretty solidly documented and > identical between NCSA and CERN. Same for forms support. > This has nothing to do with our docs issue. Our docs should not be using any cgi scripts. Our online www pages might but that's an issue for the web manager on www.freebsd.org and does not mean we need to ship a server with the base system. My main point is that we should not require a server to read our documentation and most definately our docs should not use server dependant styles. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff.