From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 00:01:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA25946 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:01:34 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA25927 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:01:31 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA01112; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 23:59:35 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504020759.XAA01112@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: why not 2+ freebsd partitions per disk? To: bugs@ns1.win.net (Mark Hittinger) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 23:59:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020338.WAA01108@ns1.win.net> from "Mark Hittinger" at Apr 1, 95 10:38:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 878 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Just a quick question - is there a technical reason why two or more freebsd > partitions per disk cannot be done? Or is it just some code that hasn't > been written yet? :-) Until just recently this was not possible due to the way that the disklabels worked. Since the slice code has gone in we now have support for more than 1 BSD disk label on a disk. This means each slice (we call DOS partitions slices to try and minimize the confusion with BSD partitions) of a disk can now have a BSD disk label. I do not know how well this has been tested, but you should be able to have 4 BSD slices on one physical disk. You will need to be running -current to do this. > Regards, > Mark Hittinger > bugs@win.net -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 00:20:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA26397 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:20:12 -0800 Received: from netcom23.netcom.com (bakul@netcom23.netcom.com [192.100.81.137]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA26389 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:20:11 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.11/Netcom) id AAA05418; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:17:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199504020817.AAA05418@netcom23.netcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: swap space (was Re: any interest?) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 00:17:19 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Swap space is another thing that is worth taking a fresh look at. Some things to consider.... - We no longer (or hardly ever) swap out entire process images like we used to. [`We' == all moderen Unixes] - Most of the traffic is paging traffic and (as far as I remember) the clock algorithm does not care for which page belongs to which process. - Many more page-ins occur, compared to page-outs. Optimizing swap placement to improve pagein times ought to help the overall performance. - Typically page-ins of different processes are not related. [except when they are used as a group -- but it is difficult to know at kernel level which processes constitute a cooperating group of processes.] - May be pages that constitute the working set of a process ought to be swapped together? The idea is that you will need them together and if a few are paged out the process will be blocked waiting for them. - Do we really need to preallocate all the swap space we may ever need? That seems like a poor use of space. - As long as there is backing store for the total amount of virtual space allocated, everyone can make progress. Beyond that why should the swap space resource be treated any different from normal files? - Perhaps a soft lower bound and hard upper bound for how much space can be used for swapping may be better? - Perhaps contiguous swap-space allocation *per* process may be good enough? - Unifying swap and file models ought to help each other. For instance, contiguous and/or pre-allocation of files can be useful for certain applications. Conversely, growing a swap space can be useful too. Also, by keeping a swap-file per process, you can use all the standard tools on them (+ follow the standard protection model). - Fundamentally there is nothing different about swap space compared to a normal file. One can think of a typical Unix process image as consisting of a numbe of files (or file segments): text, data, bss & stack. My opinions & ideas (+ some ideas borrowed from others). I throw them out to stir up some interesting discussion. -- bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 00:26:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA27090 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:26:54 -0800 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27078 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:26:49 -0800 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA01169; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:25:43 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504020825.AAA01169@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:25:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020609.AAA23597@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 2, 95 00:09:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2086 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > It's fragile because you could for instance have four file systems > > with blocks in the same 16M area of a disk. > > Um, why would you do that? Doesn't that sort of counter the whole reason > for running file systems over multiple disks? I would think so, the way Auspex handles this is that the blocking factor can be tuned when the logical volume is created. We found that for striped volumes it was best to have this close to either a cyclinder size or the size of the write behind buffer in the drive to maximize data transfer rate. ZBR drives kinda through out any attempt at the cylinder size optimization so we most often use the cache size. I have seen file system performance in excess of 8MB/sec using drives that have raw transfer rates around 2.4MB/sec each. (4 drive wide stripe, 256Kbyte blocking factor.) The drive subsystem could have probably performed better than this, but I had to access the drives over FDDI as the local host to drive bandwidth in an Auspex is severly limited by the way the local host gets to the disk controllers vs the way that the network boards get to them (can you say dedicated NFS engine :-)). The numbers scaled well as I changed the width of the stripe from 2 to 5 drives (above 4 there was no improvement, again attributed to FDDI bandwidth limitations). The performance actually decreased drastically any time the blocking factor was raised above 256K (that also happens to match the size of the cache in the drives), it dropped marginally when lowered below 256K until about 64K, then fell off sharpely again. I would really like to see the ability to do this type of drive stripping in FreeBSD, with current CPU technology pushing 200+MB/sec, memory systems rapidly approaching that speed (yes, the new EDO simm technology should push main memory speeds up into the 200MB/sec range by year end) disk drive bandwidth is going to become a big issue once again. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 00:55:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA28304 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:55:19 -0800 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA28053 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:39:30 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02768; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:17:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199504012217.AAA02768@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kiran@cerc.wvu.edu (Kiran Reddy) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: i can help In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Mar 1995 23:46:36 +0100." <9503222246.AA17313@gilmer> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 00:17:50 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: kiran@cerc.wvu.edu (Kiran Reddy) Ref. --- i am a grad student at West Virginia University and I think i can help you guyswith some of the work. Please let me know in what way can i be a help to you guys. -- I append my somewhat dated suggestions list ===== /usr/src/share/FAQ/PROJECTS by Julian Stacey IDEAS FOR PROJECTS FOR FreeBSD INDEX Section 0: Introduction Section 1: /usr/src/sys Kernel Projects Section 2: /usr/src Base Distribution Tools Section 3: /usr/ports Porting of other Public Domain Code Section 4: New Architectures & Kernels SECTION 0: INTRODUCTION This file notes some areas where FreeBSD offers scope for development projects. Proposals, queries, discussion etc, should be emailed to a list: or Corrections & updates are welcome, post them to a list, as context diffs. File may be somewhat old, feel free to plagiarise / butcher / implement / improve :-) SECTION 1: /usr/src/sys KERNEL PROJECTS Auto Compressing File System. { MSDOS supports behind-the-users-back file compression I suggest we do too: (yet another file system type, along with mfs, isofs etc) Suggester: Julian Stacey Comment available from: From: "Chris G. Demetriou" actually, i did this once, a 3-day-hacked, mostly-working proof of concept version, to get an idea of what would really be needed. (this was under 386bsd 0.0...) : One of the filesystem ideas that I've had for some time and never gotten to implement is a generalized loopback filesystem; this would support an external program (similar in concept to /sbin/mfs) which would get control on opens and closes and do various things. So, you could do any of the following things: # mount -t glfs /foo/bar/baz/quux /bar (direct loopback) # mount -t glfs -o prog=cacheshepherd,cache \ /net/wuarchive/archives /archives (interpose a local caching program between you and that dreadfully slow NFS connection to wuarchive) # mount -t glfs -o ro,prog=afsshepherd,cache /tmp /afs (/tmp is a dummy here) # mount -t glfs -o prog=trshepherd;[A-Z];[a-z],count=4 /bogus /mnt (some idiot created an all-uppercase filesystem that you now have to deal with) # mount -t glfs -o prog=ftpshepherd;/anonymous@freebsd.cdrom.com:\ ,cache /tmp /mnt (hey, let's implment Ange-FTP!) Steven Wallace : I am in on this one. I also like David Greenman's idea of a general purpose filesystem. .... controlled by an external program. Keyan Li 94 02 23: We(a group of students) eventually decided to touch the "automatic background compression", though still struggling with a true understanding of the system. } Linux File System { Add 1 or 2 file system types to FreeBSD, so that either or both Linux filesystem types can be mounted on FreeBSD. (@ Jan. 94 Linux did not support BSD fast filesystems, & FreeBSD did not support Linux file systems) From: gibbs@uclink.berkeley.edu (Justin Theodore Gibbs) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 22:06:11 +0100 HPFS filesystem support: A guy in the Linux Camp has allready done quite a bit of work on this. All of the code I've seen is well documented with his information sources listed. All of his code has been posted to linux.development. } smarter config(8) { (maybe): It should be able to create the [cb]devsw[] tables, the line discipline and network interface tables, too. wollman@uvm-gen.emba.uvm.edu: Another thing on my TODO list. config doesn't need to know anything about it; this should al be done by the linker (which does). The work that I'll eventually end up doing will also make it much eaier to have loadable device drivers and line disciplines (basically, the *sw tables ALL go away and are replaced by something which is dynamically allocated). } devfs { "Jordan K. Hubbard" : going to a devfs even while the drivers are static would be a Good Thing. We could get our names correct, and in the short term it might even let us eventually deprecate MAKEDEV as all entries in /dev would always be correct. As a high level compact with the rest of the kernel, devfs could just export: = dev_reg_name(name, flags); (void)dev_delete_name(name, flags); Where "name" is "tty01" or "st0" or whatever. } Flush less dirty pages, but more often { (Poul-Henning Kamp): I have often wondered if a scheme could be devised to flush the dirty pages in a kind of "the 10% LRU every 3 sec" instead of "everything every 30 sec". John also has views on this. -- Mark Tinguely Wed, 9 Nov 1994 there is a USENIX conference paper on this idea for anyone interested in doing this and it would give a point of reference for questions since this the author(s?) actually implemented and tested for results (get more more bandwidth out of drive). -- terry@cs.weber.edu: ftp.sage.usenix.org (otherwise known as sage.xerox.com) has the proceedings papers for ftp download. } Floating Point Emulator Improve/Rewrite It. Jordan Hubbard : The FPE is very very weak and has been known to be weak since the beginning; hell, it's been one of of our top `wish list' items for the last year or so, and the only reason we haven't taken the Linux version is the fact that the damn thing's GPL'd! Some negotiation was done with the author in an attempt to get a more freely redistributable one, but it didn't pan out. SECTION 2: /usr/src BASE DISTRIBUTION TOOLS FIXIT { write a script to generate a fixit rescue floppy Original Enthusiast: Jordan, 3/94 } RCP { Add flag for rcp -h -dereference (like tar), to avoid sym links being converted to directories. Maybe add an exclude list as per gnu tar. Should rcp: (A) Continue to default to copy symlinks as files or directories, but with an additional flag to force copy of a symlink as a symlink. or (B) Default to copy a symlink as a symlink, with a -h &/or -dereference flag, to force copy of a symlink as a file or directory. For (A) : Boyd Faulkner phk@login.dkuug.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) rgrimes@agora.rain.com (Rodney Grimes) ATS ( ats@first.gmd.de or ats@cs.tu-berlin.de ) For (B) : Julian Stacey } Units Conversion Program { Julian Stacey suggests U..x style program: pound + solid (16) ounces : grams, pints & fluid (20) ounces : litres, psi : bar, fahrenheit : celsius, british gallons : american gallons : litres etc (PS maybe americans use 16 fl oz=1 pint ? might explain why USA gallon < Imperial (British) Gallon) } Name of currently booted kernel boot blocks need to pass this to the kernel Rod Grimes wants to do this Sup Nate added a `transfer compressed option` An `and leave compressed` option would be nice, for sup on a non FreeBSD system with restricted disc space, (thereafter writing src tree on tape to compile elsewhere). Check System (Q & A quality assurance stuff) Sanity check to run after making and installing entire src & ports, to see if essentials are still running. (Essentials for me are make & cc etc, (to rebuild), kermit (for mail ;-) & groff & lpr. Other people have other criteria. Suggester: SECTION 3: /usr/ports Porting of other Public Domain Code Port Major Packages { Perhaps such as: DTP (Desktop Publishing Packages), WP (Word Processing), Scanner & OCR (optical character recognition), Jeffrey Hsu suggests: Andrew (package), stuff in ftp.x.org:/contrib & comp.sources.* scheme, cad tools, tcl clients, games To see what has already been ported: Look in ports directory on freefall.cdrom.com } Basic: { Phil Cockcroft has a widely ported basic intepreter, someone else on this list had a different basic, already ported. Which to use ? The basic was sought by for a configure program he'd write (that would generate as output a file of format such as /sys/i386/conf/GENERICAH). } Sys Admin Drag & Drop Interface { Julian Stacey notes: commercial customers like this sort of thing its a strong selling point of major U..X style OS vendors. } SECTION 4: NEW ARCHITECTURES & KERNELS Port FreeBSD to new architectures { Julian Stacey suggests: - Import the netbsd /arch/ dirs, - shake out makefiles some more (remove .i386 assumptions), - start ports to new hardware } = = = = = = = = = = Have fun, whatever you choose, whether on this list or not Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 01:31:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA28965 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:31:07 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA28947 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:30:59 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19387; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:41 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id LAA07090 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:39 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA06010 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:31:48 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504020731.JAA06010@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:31:46 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "Alex R.N. Wetmore" at Apr 1, 95 08:55:34 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 546 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Alex R.N. Wetmore wrote: > > > Hey! What are you trying to say? Microsoft never checks for overflow > > conditions and they're the biggest software company _in the world_, so > > so much for THAT point of view, Mr. Smarty Pants! Hah! > > never? i worked for microsoft and checked for overflow conditions in > everything i wrote... Ah, that's the reason why they lose market segments now! :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 01:31:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA28974 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:31:14 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA28955 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:31:04 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19383; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:40 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id LAA07087 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:38 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA05952 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:30:42 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504020730.JAA05952@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:30:40 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <12361.796783426@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 1, 95 04:43:46 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 441 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Propbably this is kinda offtopic , but _how can one use > > "user friendly" disklabel from /stand ? > > I mean one which does his job during the install ? Is there > > Right now, you can't. This will not be the case in 2.1. Perhaps disklabel a vn device? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 01:31:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA28981 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:31:18 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA28958 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:31:05 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19397; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:43 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id LAA07096 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:40 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA06459 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:49:08 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504020749.JAA06459@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: MBONE interfaces and snazzy install tools. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:49:08 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <12432.796783580@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 1, 95 04:46:20 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 667 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Sure, but I doubt that file modes (including the ones set by chflags) > > and errors can be handled in 2 lines of anything. Don't forget to > > install /tmp with perms 1777 (cp -pR botches the 1000 flag). Don't > > forget to install /kernel and libc.so with flag schg. > > Ok, ok, so it's a 20 like PERL script. It's still smaller! :-) Perl doesn't know about file flags, unfortunately. (This would break perl's abstraction of system independency. File flags are a 4.4BSD matter.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 01:31:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA28997 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:31:28 -0800 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA28975 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:31:15 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19402; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:44 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id LAA07099; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:30:41 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA06488; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:54:44 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504020754.JAA06488@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: NEC72065B To: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com (Steve Gerakines) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:54:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020354.WAA09714@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Apr 1, 95 10:54:05 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 727 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Steve Gerakines wrote: > > Anyone have any info on the NEC72065B chip? It sounds like it's similar > to a NEC765A but supports better transfer rates. Read the `van Gilluwe'. (ISBN 0-201-62277-7) It knows some more commands, but perhaps no further xfer rates. ``72065A (NEC µPD72065A) This is similar to the original 765 with a few hardware enhancements and three additional commands for power standby control and reset. 72065B (NEC µPD72065B) The B version adds one new command to determine which chip version is present. Otherwise functionally identical to the 72065A.'' -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 01:43:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA29274 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:43:33 -0800 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA29265 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 01:43:24 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA07987; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:40:59 +1000 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:40:59 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504020940.TAA07987@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bugs@ns1.win.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: why not 2+ freebsd partitions per disk? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I do not know how well this has been tested, but you should be >able to have 4 BSD slices on one physical disk. 30 >You will need to be running -current to do this. And (currently) scsi drives. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 03:33:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA00578 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 03:33:23 -0700 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-1-13.gw.umn.edu [134.84.101.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA00571 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 03:33:19 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA04207; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 05:30:22 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199504021030.FAA04207@mpp.com> Subject: Re: swap space (was Re: any interest?) To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 05:30:21 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020817.AAA05418@netcom23.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Apr 2, 95 00:17:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5751 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Swap space is another thing that is worth taking a fresh > look at. Some things to consider.... > > - We no longer (or hardly ever) swap out entire process > images like we used to. [`We' == all moderen Unixes] I used to work for Cray Research, and when I left (1.5 years ago), we were still swapping entire procs, but then again we didn't have virtual memory :-). We were working on doing partial swaps of procs, though. I was Mr. Swap back then. > - Most of the traffic is paging traffic and (as far as I > remember) the clock algorithm does not care for which page > belongs to which process. > > - Many more page-ins occur, compared to page-outs. > Optimizing swap placement to improve pagein times ought to > help the overall performance. On slower disks this is a factor. Then again, choosing the right procs to swap out in the first place helps too. Another thing to look at is the profile of the proc being swapped out. Can the image be compressed? I've seen in the past that some of the more "scientific" type procs (ok, ok, F77 programs, or programs by people who have never heard of "malloc" and have HUGE arrays defined right from the start of their program that never get filled until the last few minutes of the program run) tend to contain a lot of pages of zero that could be written as compressed files, or as sparse files in a file system swap concept. > [except when they are used as a group -- but it is > difficult to know at kernel level which processes > constitute a cooperating group of processes.] Yes/no, and as you state, it is difficult to determine which processes are really "cooperating". E.g. "x | y". Both of those processes are related, and swapping of either can greatly affect the other, depending on the application. > - May be pages that constitute the working set of a process > ought to be swapped together? The idea is that you will > need them together and if a few are paged out the process > will be blocked waiting for them. The problem here is that you can run into a SERIOUS deadlock/performance problem on a busy system if you are never able to swap the "working set" back in. Believe be...been there, done that. > - Do we really need to preallocate all the swap space we > may ever need? That seems like a poor use of space. I've always felt that swap space was kinda a waste, but on a very busy system if you shared that space with something else (/tmp?), your swapping algorithms changes a lot. What happens if someone gobbles up all that space and now you have no place to swap that huge process? Typically, you choose different swapping strategies depending on memory & swap space. Having a "dynamic" swap space really throws a wrench into things. I'm not saying it can't be done, but have fun if you really want to try it out and get it totally working. > - As long as there is backing store for the total amount of > virtual space allocated, everyone can make progress. > Beyond that why should the swap space resource be treated > any different from normal files? Again, you might choose a different scheduling/swap strategy depending on how much swap space you think/know you have available. > - Perhaps a soft lower bound and hard upper bound for how > much space can be used for swapping may be better? > > - Perhaps contiguous swap-space allocation *per* process may > be good enough? Has anyone done any benchmarks lately to see how much performance hit there is for having non-contiguous disk allocations? This used to be a big factor on older/slower DOS type disks, but I guess I've gotten spoiled by the larger disks & controllers we had on our Cray's and other mainframes that I've worked on that kinda made this a moot point. As someone was asking earlier, striped disks can help improve this, even if you are not using any type of a RAID strategy. Write one track to disk 1, the next to disk 2, the next to disk 3, the next to disk 1, and so on can really help performance. I'm sure a well thought out striping system for FreeBSD would really help out server type machines. I would like to see FreeBSD file systems span multiple slices, without regard to which physical disk the slice resides on. > - Unifying swap and file models ought to help each other. > For instance, contiguous and/or pre-allocation of files > can be useful for certain applications. Conversely, > growing a swap space can be useful too. Also, by keeping > a swap-file per process, you can use all the standard > tools on them (+ follow the standard protection model). Preallocation of space has been around on the Cray for a while. You were never guaranteed that the space was contiguous (but being contiguous was never an issue there), just that the space was there and that you could allocate it after calling the appropriate system call. This really helps (braindead, IMHO) database type applications. > - Fundamentally there is nothing different about swap space > compared to a normal file. One can think of a typical > Unix process image as consisting of a numbe of files (or > file segments): text, data, bss & stack. You are right. Swap space is really just a file allocated by the kernel, but without the overhead of the filesystem (or with other overhead depending on the operating system :-). > My opinions & ideas (+ some ideas borrowed from others). I > throw them out to stir up some interesting discussion. > > -- bakul Just my opinions & ideas. Just wait till I get a multi-cpu Pentium clone and want to run FreeBSD with 2+ CPUs :-)!!! -- Mike Pritchard pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu "Swap on that disk. Really fast. If something slows you down, switch to another disk!" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 05:40:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA02869 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 05:40:21 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA02862 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 05:40:17 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28312; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:39:58 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id OAA08370 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:39:56 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA01253 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:16:16 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504021216.OAA01253@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: grafx console & DDB To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:16:15 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1035 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It hit me again... X was running, and the system panicked. Since my development machine ususally runs with DDB enabled, the system just stalled at this time. What do people think about a global variable (`console_unavail' ?) that can be set to TRUE by the graphics console drivers while the current VT is in `process' mode (i.e., needs the interaction of a process [the X server] in order to be succesfully switched from/to)? panic() should then avoid calling Debugger() if this variable is TRUE. The console drivers should only set it if they are acting as the system's console (so if someone runs a serial console, it would still go into DDB). Before Terry jumps in: i know that this is not the generic solution. The console drivers should reinitialize the system's console via a vm86() call to the video BIOS -- but i don't see this solution around the corner within the next weeks. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 05:41:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA02901 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 05:41:45 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA02895 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 05:41:41 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28302; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:39:55 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id OAA08364 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:39:55 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA01097 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:51:47 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504020951.LAA01097@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:51:44 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504020739.XAA15506@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 1, 95 11:39:09 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1224 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > >Does anyone "own" printing under FreeBSD? I've often felt there to be > >a great, sucking vacuum in the printing side of things and it really > >would be NIFTY if somebody who actually OWNED A PRINTER (this does not > >include me) and was kind of DETAIL MINDED actually got mad and angry > >enough about the poor printer support and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Well, i actually own a printer, yes. Though it's an old & loud 180 dpi Epson. > What is needed is a simple front end that asks for a few things that > are common to all printers (name, remote?, spool directory, error-log > file?, etc), asks for the printer type, fetchs the printcap for this > model printer that has been submitted and munges it based on the answers > given. Someon who knows perl (I don't) should be able to do this pretty > easily. ...perhaps also a reference to apsfilter? (Oooh! We don't even have a port for it! Andreas, are you also listening here?) I do own a printer, and i do know perl, but i do not have time. :-( I can, however, volunteer to beta-test. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 06:02:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA03369 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 06:02:57 -0700 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA03346 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 06:02:54 -0700 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA26757 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:02:06 +0200 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA11049; Sun, 2 Apr 95 15:01:32 +0200 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9504021301.AA11049@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 2 Apr 95 15:01:32 MET DST Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504021216.OAA01253@uriah.heep.sax.de>; from "J Wunsch" at Apr 2, 95 2:16 pm X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It hit me again... X was running, and the system panicked. Since my > development machine ususally runs with DDB enabled, the system just > stalled at this time. > > What do people think about a global variable (`console_unavail' ?) > that can be set to TRUE by the graphics console drivers while the > current VT is in `process' mode (i.e., needs the interaction of a > process [the X server] in order to be succesfully switched from/to)? Davidg has already confronted me with that idea, I had nothing against it, but havn't heard more to it, just tell me the variables name and it be in there (in syscons)... > panic() should then avoid calling Debugger() if this variable is TRUE. > The console drivers should only set it if they are acting as the > system's console (so if someone runs a serial console, it would still > go into DDB). > > > Before Terry jumps in: i know that this is not the generic solution. > The console drivers should reinitialize the system's console via a > vm86() call to the video BIOS -- but i don't see this solution around > the corner within the next weeks. Why not, there was some vm86 patches posted here some time ago, and somebody said they where working on it. When we have that feature, it'll take a couble of hours getting syscons to use that (don't know about pcvt though :-) ) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 06:41:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA08854 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 06:41:28 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA08836 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 06:41:24 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA19776; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:41:36 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504021341.OAA19776@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Two proposals To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:41:35 +0100 (BST) Cc: Kai.Vorma@hut.fi, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504011746.KAA19377@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 1, 95 10:46:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1055 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Nate Williams who said > > Is that the CSRI malloc? I wasn't aware of that. As far as slow goes, > benchmarks Righ Murphy did a while ago put it *much* faster than our > current malloc and not much slower than GNU malloc. (And I think once > it was faster than GNU malloc). I'd prefer something that was more > space effecient that wasn't *really* slow vs. something that was a bit > faster but wasn't quite as effecient. Well, one consideration is that if you're running out of memory a more efficient malloc is going to be faster than swapping, even if the malloc itself is a little slower. I seem to run out of memory a lot even with 16Mb and the machine (a P5-90) suddenly slows right down beacuse of all the disk access taking place, more efficient memory usage would probably be a win. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 06:44:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA09361 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 06:44:04 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA09330 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 06:43:51 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29236; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:43:04 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id PAA08656 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:43:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA01503 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:42:04 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504021342.PAA01503@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:42:03 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9504021301.AA11049@login.dknet.dk> from "S|ren Schmidt" at Apr 2, 95 03:01:32 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1358 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As S|ren Schmidt wrote: > > Davidg has already confronted me with that idea, I had nothing > against it, but havn't heard more to it, just tell me the > variables name and it be in there (in syscons)... It would even be easy enough for me to stick it in myself... But we first need some consensus from the crowd. > > Before Terry jumps in: i know that this is not the generic solution. > > The console drivers should reinitialize the system's console via a > > vm86() call to the video BIOS -- but i don't see this solution around > > the corner within the next weeks. > > Why not, there was some vm86 patches posted here some time ago, and > somebody said they where working on it. When we have that > feature, it'll take a couble of hours getting syscons to use > that (don't know about pcvt though :-) ) This should not go in before 2.1 ships, IMHO. For pcvt, i've already thought about Terrys idea to move all the card dependant code out to an LKM (defaulting to a generic VGA lkm or such), and stick also all the X11 code there. Given my current load level, and the personal troubles i expect in the field of my paywork, it will take forever to implement it, however. :-( (See your .sig, Søren... :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:11:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA15343 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:11:17 -0700 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA15324 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:11:13 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA00621; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:08:45 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:08:45 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199504021408.KAA00621@snoopy.mv.com> To: spaz@u.washington.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from John Utz on Sat, 1 Apr 1995 19:11:49 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: CLISP clarification, Was: New Snapshot...Good and Bad.... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "John" == John Utz writes: John> Hokay; Allow me to clear up all of this confusion that i John> started... <...> John> @ncftp>more ANNOUNCE @This is CLISP, a Common Lisp John> implementation. John> @ CLISP is mostly CLtL1 compliant, with some CLtL2 John> additions, including a @ CLOS subset. Many features of CLtL2 John> or dpANS CL are currently not @ supported. John> @ The newest versions will always be available via anonymous John> ftp from @ ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.115.2], John> directory @ /pub/lisp/clisp/. @ Another ftp site carrying John> CLISP is @ ftp.cs.cmu.edu [128.2.206.173], directory John> user/ai/lang/lisp/impl/clisp/. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Given the John> thread of this conversation I think this mirror is kind of John> significant. It would seem to me that if cmu wants to mirror John> this particular implementation that would indicate that they John> felt that it was a reasonable job that implements some John> significant feature not found in there original. Actually, The CMU site is a repository for lots of AI stuff, practically anything that ever made it out of the labs, I think. John> I would be willing to bet that significant feature is John> SIZE!!! John> @ Our Common Lisp CLISP @ * needs only 1.5 MB of memory John> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hmm, that beats GCL which starts life at 2.4 MB. Seems like it used to be smaller than that. Anyhow bear in mind that Lisp grows like a wart once it has to actually do anything. John> Did i read in someone else's posting that CMU CLISP John> wants 16M?!!! Anybodys Lisp wants lots of memory. GCL starts at 2.4 MB with basic features. Add CLOS, LOOP, Conditions, etc to get some of the CLtL2 functionality and it gets to 6.3 MB real quick. Toss in CLX for X support and we are pushing 8MB. Add in some application code, maybe a blackboard or rules system and we start to exceed the VM limits on a 16 MB box. From my experience, 16MB should be considered a minimal system for running Lisp. 32MB is pretty nice. I saw one post where a guy was running 192MB and was pretty happy. John> @ * implements 99% of the CLtL1 standard, as well as some John> extensions @ * can call your preferred editor @ * is freely John> distributable John> @ Get it via anonymous ftp from John> ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de @ [129.13.115.2], @ John> directory /pub/lisp/clisp/, or contact @ Bruno Haible John> . John> If you are not hot and sweaty about getting the exact John> particular package then i would seriously look at this. It John> made right the heck up on 2.0R ( excepting __const char John> *__const sys_errlist, of course ). It might be an improvment John> to *have* this as opposed to *wondering* about the John> portability of the full on CMU version. Yeh, I might just check it out and see how it compares to GCL. The neat feature of CMU Lisp is that it is close to the new ANSI spec and has a native mode compiler rather than having to go the Lisp-to-C route. The bad news is that the i386 instruction set is not one of alpha, Sparc or SGI. Also, it turns out that there is assembly language hooks to the kernel for each implementation and one needs an operational CMU-Lisp just to build the .h file for the underlying C code. Looks like a challenge. John> As i said originally, it flops on the current snap. It John> compiles fine but seems to run out of room on my 8 meg 386 John> during the bytecompile stage ( this is a total wag , i infer John> this because the lisp environment gets created from the c John> code, executes, goes to work on a mess of *.lsp and dies in John> one called clos.lsp, but what i don't know about lisp defies Ah, but once you get to know it - you will either love it or hate it. Close to the being the worlds oldest computer language and one considered by many to be the worlds greatest systems programming language of all time! John> One of our vm gurus, i think it was DG but it might John> have been Bruce, mentioned something about needing snapshots John> to test out the current state of the vm code..so i would John> think that this might be an elliptic reference to the grief John> i was having. Building Lisp on a small box WILL beat the cr ^H^H^H^H mm, stress test any VM system. John> in case you are wondering why i am torturing myself John> with a language i can't comprehend,,, lisp is the lang of John> choice for symbolic computation and the guy that wrote this John> clisp has also done a gorgeous port of some classic symbolic John> computation code. Given the fact that i dont even know what John> the equivalent of printf is in lisp, it seemed logical to (format t "The number is ~d~%" 1) John> get his *environment* if i wanted to use his *port* with any John> chance of having a successfull compilation. Which, btw, John> turned out to be the case on 2.0R. John> obviously, i eagerly await the next snap, but i think John> i am stuck now until 2.1 because i dont see where i will John> have time to do this again until the quarter is over...it John> tooks three days of near continuous effort ( thank heaven my John> wife was out of town... :-) ) The GCL port ought to work fine on -current. Good luck. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:16:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA16819 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:16:41 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA16797 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:16:37 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA09853; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:23:44 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25892 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:16:57 +0200 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11060 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:04:53 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA01396; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 20:15:16 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504011815.UAA01396@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 20:15:16 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504011440.GAA17939@ix3.ix.netcom.com> from "Paul Vinciguerra" at Apr 1, 95 06:40:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1087 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Are there any plans/work in progress for allowing FreeBSD the ability > to have > >> filesystems span multiple physicle volumes (ala Logical Volume > Manager on > >> AIX/OSF) ? > >It should also be noted that this type of arrangement is extremely > >fragile -- it's order n^2 for n disks more fragile than file systems > >not spanning disks at all. You shouldn't attempt this type of > > Why? Isn't this what the world is moving toward, ala RAID? It's my > understanding that RAID spanning/striping adds about 20% to the file > system, but IMPROVES reliability/stability. Stop! Spanning and RAID are not the same. And only RAID5 and friends give you redundancy against single-disk failures. RAID0 (striping) leaves you hair tearing when one of the member disks breaks. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:22:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA17756 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:22:07 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA17743 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:22:05 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA21707; Sun, 2 Apr 95 14:21:37 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA13168; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:21:36 -0600 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:21:36 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504021421.AA13168@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <24390.796804685@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: Jordan> [ ... about the endless void of printing ... ] Jordan> Any takers? :-) What does this involve? Maintaining lpd? Providing if filters? Writing sample printcap entries? Docs? All of the above? --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:24:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA18124 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:24:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA18111; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:24:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 08:21:36 MDT." <9504021421.AA13168@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 07:24:55 -0700 Message-ID: <18110.796832695@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What does this involve? Maintaining lpd? Providing if filters? > Writing sample printcap entries? Docs? All of the above? Yes! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:28:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA18858 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:28:23 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA18830 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:28:19 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA06863; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:32:14 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:32:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199504021432.HAA06863@trout.sri.MT.net> To: alex wetmore Cc: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs), aw2t+@andrew.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups In-Reply-To: <199504020510.AAA01410@phred.org> References: <199504020447.UAA12637@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> <199504020510.AAA01410@phred.org> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Musing about jobs.... ] > Wow, I was an intern last summer too (assuming that you were, since > PowerPoint 5 isn't out yet). Anyway, I really miss Seattle in general, > there are a lot of great diversions there for outdoorsy types (which I > generally think I am). Can't wait to get back this summer, and hopefully > for fulltime once I graduate. if ( Seattle == outdoorsy ) me->confused(); I guess I'm a bit biased having spent time in the entire Pacific NW, and growing up in Montana. Seattle is about as far from outdoorsy as anwhere in the NW I can think of (possibly Portland), but I will agree there are lots of diversions there. > I'd rather see Windows 95 go away, but NT has some nice design behind > it. Yes, it's called 'Not Invented Here'. M$ does this the way they way they want to no matter what anyone else in the world does, and they call it new technology even if it's something everyone else has abandoned as too slow. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:31:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA19252 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:31:06 -0700 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA19244 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:30:54 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA01040; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:29:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:29:18 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from -Vince- on Sun, 2 Apr 1995 03:17:39 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "-Vince-" == -Vince- writes: -Vince-> On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> > Here is my /etc/printcap file > ... >> >> Does anyone "own" printing under FreeBSD? I've often felt >> there to be a great, sucking vacuum in the printing side of >> things and it really would be NIFTY if somebody who actually >> OWNED A PRINTER (this does not include me) and was kind of >> DETAIL MINDED actually got mad and angry enough about the poor >> printer support and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. >> >> Any takers? :-) >> >> Jordan >> -Vince-> Well, I actually OWN A PRINTER or to be exact, one HP -Vince-> DeskJet 560C, DeskJet Portable 310 and a DeskJet 500 and -Vince-> recently got printing of everything except for dvi files -Vince-> under apsfilter 4.9 delta which I am trying out... Time -Vince-> to add apsfilter to the ports collection? :-) I just happened to get a DeskJet 540 last weekend and spent an afternoon trying to get the thing to work. I found buried in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" along with some install script that created a bunch of cdj-550.x print queues and a printcap file that basically turned the Deskjet into a postscript printer. That, along with a2ps and dvips seems to be all that one needs to get the job done. It was simple enough to do but it sure would be nice to have it automated - or even a good pointer as to where to find the needed files. By the way, the 540 is a pretty nice unit. ($279 at Staples). Does color for $40 more. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:35:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA20098 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:35:27 -0700 Received: from phred.ws.cc.cmu.edu (PHRED.WS.CC.CMU.EDU [128.2.74.228]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA20090 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:35:26 -0700 Received: (from alex@localhost) by phred.ws.cc.cmu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.6) id KAA02595; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:35:07 -0400 From: alex wetmore Message-Id: <199504021435.KAA02595@phred.org> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Cc: alex@phred.org, gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, aw2t+@andrew.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504021432.HAA06863@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 2, 95 07:32:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1195 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > if ( Seattle == outdoorsy ) > me->confused(); > > I guess I'm a bit biased having spent time in the entire Pacific NW, and > growing up in Montana. Seattle is about as far from outdoorsy as > anwhere in the NW I can think of (possibly Portland), but I will agree > there are lots of diversions there. Well, compared to philadelphia and pittsburgh it is incredible. I probably should have said western washington though...there is just a lot of cool stuff nearby to hike... > > I'd rather see Windows 95 go away, but NT has some nice design behind > > it. > > Yes, it's called 'Not Invented Here'. M$ does this the way they way > they want to no matter what anyone else in the world does, and they call > it new technology even if it's something everyone else has abandoned as > too slow. Well, maybe I'm biased here, but they seem to be doing fairly well with NT at this point as a server system. They comprimised some of the protection normally found in a microkernel, but NT really isn't that slow... and NT doesn't stand for new technology anymore, so they don't go running around saying they invented it all. anyway, this discussion probably doesn't belong on here... alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:37:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA20349 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:37:20 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA20339 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:37:12 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14367 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:34:23 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA02739; 2 Apr 95 09:10:16 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA02736; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:10:15 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504021410.JAA02736@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:10:15 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020731.JAA06010@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 2, 95 09:31:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 121 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ah, that's the reason why they lose market segments now! :-) I thought their 32-bit API didn't use segments any more. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:38:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA20480 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:38:41 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA20453 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:38:34 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14363 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:34:08 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA02422; 2 Apr 95 08:51:26 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA02419; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:51:25 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504021351.IAA02419@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:51:25 -0500 (CDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020825.AAA01169@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 2, 95 00:25:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 758 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > It's fragile because you could for instance have four file systems > > > with blocks in the same 16M area of a disk. > > Um, why would you do that? Doesn't that sort of counter the whole reason > > for running file systems over multiple disks? > I would think so, the way Auspex handles this is that the blocking factor > can be tuned when the logical volume is created. [...] You miss the point. Why would you have multiple file systems on the same set of disks? [goes on to describe the performance benefits of striping] Yeh, then it becomes useful... but if you're going to that effort you'd go full RAID with parity, so a disk failure just means you slip another disk in and let it repopulate it. Yeh, it's more complex... but so is striping. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 07:43:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21143 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:43:46 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21131 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:43:43 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA06906; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:47:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 07:47:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199504021447.HAA06906@trout.sri.MT.net> To: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB In-Reply-To: <9504021301.AA11049@login.dknet.dk> References: <199504021216.OAA01253@uriah.heep.sax.de> <9504021301.AA11049@login.dknet.dk> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Not calling DDB if we are in graphics mode ] > > Before Terry jumps in: i know that this is not the generic solution. > > The console drivers should reinitialize the system's console via a > > vm86() call to the video BIOS -- but i don't see this solution around > > the corner within the next weeks. > > Why not, there was some vm86 patches posted here some time ago, and > somebody said they where working on it. That was me, but unfortunately the code posted to the NetBSD lists is very NetBSD specific, and other problems have been taking up all of my FreeBSD hacking time. I'm not sure if I'll get time to do the work before 2.1 since more critical stuff comes up all the time, so please don't rely on the VM86 code working by then. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 08:18:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA26115 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:18:46 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA26103 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:18:43 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa11464; 2 Apr 95 16:18 GMT-60:00 Received: from localhost (gary@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA00691 ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:15:34 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: alex wetmore cc: "Justin T. Gibbs" , kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, aw2t+@andrew.cmu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, bugs@ns1.win.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org, tom@haven.uniserve.com Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 00:10:40 CDT." <199504020510.AAA01410@phred.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <687.796835731.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 16:15:32 +0100 Message-ID: <688.796835732@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504020510.AAA01410@phred.org>, alex wetmore writes: >Wow, I was an intern last summer too (assuming that you were, since >PowerPoint 5 isn't out yet). ERRR - any chance we can keep Microsoft OUT of the FreeBSD lists? I don't mind them being mentioned in passing, but to have discussions regarding their distribution of drinks & T-Shirts to employees is going a BIT far :-) Thanks Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 08:30:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA28302 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:30:12 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA28292 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:30:09 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa12165; 2 Apr 95 16:29 GMT-60:00 Received: from localhost (gary@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA00876 ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:28:46 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Paul F. Werkowski" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 10:29:18 EDT." <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <872.796836524.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 16:28:44 +0100 Message-ID: <873.796836524@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com>, "Paul F. Werkowski" writes: > I just happened to get a DeskJet 540 last weekend and spent > an afternoon trying to get the thing to work. I found buried > in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" along with > some install script that created a bunch of cdj-550.x print > queues and a printcap file that basically turned the Deskjet > into a postscript printer. That, along with a2ps and dvips > seems to be all that one needs to get the job done. It was > simple enough to do but it sure would be nice to have it > automated - or even a good pointer as to where to find the > needed files. I hate to say it but apsfilter is probably a better bet that gs. AFAIR it handles DVI files internally, so you can just lpr foo.dvi and have it print. (although it still dvips foo.dvi, (gs -whatever) foo.ps, at least it's hidden from you :-) ) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 08:51:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA02783 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:51:19 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA02777 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 08:51:14 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01512; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:50:55 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id RAA09317 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:50:43 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00995 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:45:28 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504021545.RAA00995@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:45:26 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504021447.HAA06906@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 2, 95 07:47:34 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 668 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nate Williams wrote: > [vm86() call] > I'm not sure if I'll get time to do the work before 2.1 since more > critical stuff comes up all the time, so please don't rely on the VM86 > code working by then. I also think it's too dangerous putting this kind of code in before 2.1 ships. It's clearly `new features', so we should hold it back for an even-numbered release. OTOH, the `no DDB while the VT is in process mode' hack is rather simple, and does no big harm -- even if it's ``not exactly the Right Thing [tm]''. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 09:06:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA03093 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:06:13 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA03087 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:06:10 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA01057 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:54:27 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:54:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199504021554.LAA01057@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: NE2000 Plus performance Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Poking around with the configuration program of our ethernet cards >(NE2000 clones manufactured by Trust), I found out that they have a mode >(called NE2000 plus) in which they apparently use shared memory (at >least, the setup menu asks you to select a memory address. > >Is this mode supported by the current if_ed driver, and is it documented >anywhere ? (I am asking because I remember discussion on the relative >performance of WD80x3 -- better, using shared memory -- and NE2000 This NE2000+ is a pretty interesting character...its almost a contradiction. The only good reason (and it IS a good reason) to use an NE2000 is that you don't have to worry about conflicts with other adapters. But an NE2000 with shared memory really is just a non-compatible WD8013, since they both use the same processor. If they're as inexpensive as NE2000 clones though...now this would be good. We have an NE2000 driver for our VLB NE2000 that we could easily modify to support the NE2000+. Please give me some info on pricing and who sells them. If they cost the same or close to an SMC card, forget it. I'd rather use SMC. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 09:08:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA03170 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:08:55 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA03162 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:08:52 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA00971; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:08:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA00396; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:08:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199504021608.JAA00396@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: alex wetmore cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, aw2t+@andrew.cmu.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 10:35:06 EDT." <199504021435.KAA02595@phred.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 09:08:33 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> if ( Seattle == outdoorsy ) >> me->confused(); >> >> I guess I'm a bit biased having spent time in the entire Pacific NW, and >> growing up in Montana. Seattle is about as far from outdoorsy as >> anwhere in the NW I can think of (possibly Portland), but I will agree >> there are lots of diversions there. > >Well, compared to philadelphia and pittsburgh it is incredible. I probably >should have said western washington though...there is just a lot of cool >stuff nearby to hike... Umm, well, since I live in Portland I guess I can say authoritatively that you only have to travel a few miles east of the Portland metro area before encountering forest area. I guess Nate never made it out of Portland when he was here. One need only spend a few hours in Denver to appreciate the Pacific NW. :-) ...but we're seriously digressing from the original subject. :-) -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 09:11:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA03214 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:11:34 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA03208 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:11:33 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06274; Sun, 2 Apr 95 11:10:01 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504021610.AA06274@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:10:00 -0500 (CDT) Cc: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504011815.UAA01396@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 1, 95 08:15:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 563 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Stop! Spanning and RAID are not the same. And only RAID5 and friends > give you redundancy against single-disk failures. RAID0 (striping) > leaves you hair tearing when one of the member disks breaks. Yes, in many cases. However, those of us managing Usenet spools spread over half a dozen disks would probably not mind (I'm not particularly fond of newfs'ing an entire spool after a single disk crash, but it might be an acceptable tradeoff). It would be nice to see some sort of solution, even if it's not necessarily "optimal" at this time. :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 09:28:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA03525 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:28:41 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA03519 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:28:39 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id SAA21896 ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:28:58 +0200 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25744; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:28:23 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9504021628.AA25744@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Speed while printing To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:28:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: dfr@nlsys.demon.co.uk, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504012048.MAA19086@netcom16.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Apr 1, 95 12:48:30 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 589 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Atleast under NetBSD the interrupting lpt driver does not > work too well. I think FreeBSD is the same.... You are > better off with the non interrupting version (minor device > number is incremented by 128 and it probaly called lpa0). I've been using the interrupt version as lpt0 for months and I do not have any slowdown when using it. The only very minor problem I got is that I can hear the bytes going out with my Soundblaster :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 09:38:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA03784 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:38:36 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA03776 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:38:32 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA14902 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:17:09 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA03951; 2 Apr 95 10:00:19 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA03948; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:00:19 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504021500.KAA03948@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: CLISP clarification, Was: New Snapshot...Good and Bad.... To: pw@snoopy.MV.COM (Paul F. Werkowski) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:00:18 -0500 (CDT) Cc: spaz@u.washington.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504021408.KAA00621@snoopy.mv.com> from "Paul F. Werkowski" at Apr 2, 95 10:08:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 484 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmm, that beats GCL which starts life at 2.4 MB. Seems like > it used to be smaller than that. Anyhow bear in mind that > Lisp grows like a wart once it has to actually do anything. That's not inherent in Lisp. I was doing useful stuff in Lisp 1.5 on a PDP-11. I can't imagine what GCL could possibly have in it to require that sort of resource utilization. I've seen some of the syntactic sugar people have added to lisp, but surely all that stuff can be considered optional? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 09:52:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA04234 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:52:42 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04228 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:52:39 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA01284 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:41:00 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:41:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199504021641.MAA01284@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: WAN beta sites wanted Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Emerging Technologies has recently completed a port of their BSD/OS serial drivers to FreeBSD 2.0. Looking for quality beta test sites. The product supports full IP routing interfaces to our hi-performance boards up to 4mbs with the following protocols. - Frame Relay (Annex D and LMI) - X.25 (rfc 877 and 1358) - Raw HDLC - Cisco compatible HDLC - LAPB The product also supports data compression on all interfaces/LCNS/DLCIS and IPX / IPXWAN routing over serial or Frame Relay. The port was rather trivial so we don't anticipate many surprises. Interested parties please reply directly to me via e-mail. Dennis Emerging Technologies, Inc. dennis@et.htp.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 09:57:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA04397 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:57:37 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA04390 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:57:32 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA01937; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:55:58 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504021655.JAA01937@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504021351.IAA02419@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 2, 95 08:51:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1655 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > It's fragile because you could for instance have four file systems > > > > with blocks in the same 16M area of a disk. > > > > Um, why would you do that? Doesn't that sort of counter the whole reason > > > for running file systems over multiple disks? > > > I would think so, the way Auspex handles this is that the blocking factor > > can be tuned when the logical volume is created. [...] > > You miss the point. Why would you have multiple file systems on the same > set of disks? To keep there sizes from becoming unmanagable. We where stripping 3Gbyte drives and we didn't want any logical volume to be larger than our dump tape capacity (5GBytes). We ended up with 4 wide stripes (12GB total) split into 3 logical drives of 4 GB each. > > [goes on to describe the performance benefits of striping] > > Yeh, then it becomes useful... but if you're going to that effort you'd go > full RAID with parity, so a disk failure just means you slip another disk > in and let it repopulate it. Yeh, it's more complex... but so is striping. Auspex's don't use raid, and have been doing disk stripping for a long time. With MTBF's >800K hours on modern disk drives failure has become much less of an issue. RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 10:32:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA05507 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:32:07 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05501 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:32:00 -0700 Received: from jsdinc.root.com (uucp@localhost) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with UUCP id KAA01975; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:30:17 -0700 Received: (root@localhost) by jsdinc.root.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id MAA00147; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:33:03 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199504021233.MAA00147@jsdinc.root.com> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: zeta.org.au!bde@implode.root.com (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:33:03 +0000 () Cc: zeta.org.au!davidg@implode.root.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, bde@zeta.org.au, bugs@ns1.win.net, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, tom@haven.uniserve.com In-Reply-To: <199504012235.IAA21888@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 2, 95 08:35:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2164 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The clustering code converts block numbers to byte offsets for some reason, > perhaps just because it wants to compare the byte offset with the file > size and multiplying by the block size is sometimes much more efficient > than dividing the file size by the block size and worrying about rounding. > The problem is that all VREG file buffering occurs through VM objects, which along with VM pages have 32Bit offsets with BYTE resolution. DG and I are looking into making the offsets into page offsets. Note that this is only true for VM clustering. VFS layer clustering has no such limitation. The limitation will be removed in V2.2. Note that we don't use the merged VM/Buffer cache for VBLK for this reason. It would be very unfortunate to limit the size of a device because of the size of a vm_offset_t wouldn't it??? I have looked into making vm_page_t offset into an off_t and it appears to be ugly because of the additional amount of space that it will need. Since pages are on page boundaries, it appears that making the offset into integral page offsets would not be a problem. However, this brings up an interesting problem on shadow_offsets and paging_offsets. They will have to be off_t's. In 2.2 I plan to add the capability of allowing "bogus" binary formats that are not page aligned. This will allow successful demand paging of ibcs2(or is it Linux?) binaries. Currently we need to read them in. In essence we will shadow the ibcs2 object with the actual vnode backed object, with a non-integral paging offset. Minor mods will need to be made to the fault code to effect this improvement. This means that the binarys with the bogus offsets will not be coherent with the buffer cache, but that is not that important as long as proper invalidation takes place. > seem to be many secondary problems. I gave up on the problem for a > while because it seemed that there were more fundamental problems in > the vm system. > Not really fundamental problems, but bugs. :-). Many fundamental improvments have been made, and the end result will be substantially better than the previous (4.4Lite-Net/2) stuff. John dyson@root.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 10:40:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA05706 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:40:20 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (MAIL.BARRNET.NET [131.119.245.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05700 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:40:19 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/BARRNET-Len-Rose) id KAA03628; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:37:22 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA21900; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:35:42 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:35:42 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Tristan Taylor Kamp In-Reply-To: <199504012350.PAA22768@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Rita Taylor & Poul-Henning Kamp > > are please to announce that > > Tristan Taylor Kamp > > Arrived kicking and screaming march 31st 1995 at 22:00 Pacific time. Congratulations, sir!!! I think this is worthy of a comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce announcement. :) I know the *perfect* gift too: the first BSD daemon plush toy off the assembly line. :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 10:41:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA05715 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:41:21 -0700 Received: from kf0yn.ampr.org (s087.infonet.net [167.142.100.87]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05709 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:41:17 -0700 Received: from [44.50.32.7] (macintosh [44.50.32.7]) by kf0yn.ampr.org (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA04495; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:38:09 -0459 X-Sender: cmf@44.50.32.6 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:38:55 -0500 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) From: cmf@ins.infonet.net (Carl Fongheiser) Subject: Re: MBONE interfaces and snazzy install tools. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Perl doesn't know about file flags, unfortunately. (This would break >perl's abstraction of system independency. File flags are a 4.4BSD >matter.) Not a big deal, really. Perl has "syscall", so chflags could be something like this: #! /usr/bin/perl $SYS_chflags = 34; syscall($SYS_chflags, $ARGV[0], $ARGV[1]+0) && die "$ARGV[0]: $!"; Naturally, you'd want something in here to translate the names of the flags instead of just using the numeric value. Carl Fongheiser cmf@ins.infonet.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 10:48:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA05910 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:48:34 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (MAIL.BARRNET.NET [131.119.245.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05903 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:48:33 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/BARRNET-Len-Rose) id KAA03657; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:45:37 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA21912; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:44:03 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:44:02 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Julian Elischer cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Adaptec AHA-1515 controller??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 31 Mar 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: > > It MIGHT work.. the 1510/1520 driver may be able to run it.... Guess we'll know if my friend tries to install FreeBSD on his system. Any particular SNAP you could recommend? Or should he just go with the 950322 one and keep his fingers crossed? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 10:48:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA05920 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:48:44 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05914 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:48:42 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id NAA02045; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:48:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:48:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Undf'd symbol in vat_audio on -current Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rebuilt from -current sup'd about 0400 UTC 4/2. Kernel build then complains: loading kernel vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text segment vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Any suggestions on getting around this are greatly appreciated. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 10:49:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA05930 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:49:10 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (MAIL.BARRNET.NET [131.119.245.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA05924 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:49:09 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/BARRNET-Len-Rose) id KAA03661; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:48:53 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA21923; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:48:02 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:48:02 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: any interest? In-Reply-To: <199504020629.WAA24567@violet.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > From: nils@guru.stgt.sub.org (Cornelis van der Laan) [...] > The usual way under SunOS is 'mkfile 4m /some/file'. This way > no disk blocks are allocated until they are actually needed. If we had a filesystem that dealt with sparse files correctly, this would be a no-brainer (create a file, set the EOF to however far you want). Is there a requirement that swapfiles be contiguous under FreeBSD? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 11:03:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA06304 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:03:07 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06298 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:03:04 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA02046; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:02:49 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA00189; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:02:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199504021802.LAA00189@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: any interest? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 01:48:02 +0800." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 11:02:48 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> >> From: nils@guru.stgt.sub.org (Cornelis van der Laan) >[...] >> The usual way under SunOS is 'mkfile 4m /some/file'. This way >> no disk blocks are allocated until they are actually needed. > > If we had a filesystem that dealt with sparse files correctly, Uhh, we do - FFS deals with them just fine. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 11:11:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA06416 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:11:22 -0700 Received: from netcom7.netcom.com (bakul@netcom7.netcom.com [192.100.81.115]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06410 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:11:21 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.11/Netcom) id LAA26153; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:08:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199504021808.LAA26153@netcom7.netcom.com> To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) cc: dfr@nlsys.demon.co.uk, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Speed while printing In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 18:28:23 +0200." <9504021628.AA25744@blaise.ibp.fr> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 11:08:10 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've been using the interrupt version as lpt0 for months and I do not > have any slowdown when using it. Apparently it is somewhat printer dependent. If the printer deasserts *BUSY a few microseconds _after_ asserting *ACK, and the interrupt handler routine is entered within this window, it will return without doing anything. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 11:27:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA06664 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:27:48 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06658 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:27:46 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA23182; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:27:58 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:27:58 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: any interest? In-Reply-To: <199504021802.LAA00189@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, David Greenman wrote: > > > > If we had a filesystem that dealt with sparse files correctly, > > Uhh, we do - FFS deals with them just fine. Hmmmm... what was that discussion a few weeks back about sparse files then? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 11:35:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA06856 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:35:27 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06844 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:35:22 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA07473; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:39:03 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:39:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199504021839.LAA07473@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Brian Tao Cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: any interest? In-Reply-To: References: <199504021802.LAA00189@corbin.Root.COM> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao writes: > > > If we had a filesystem that dealt with sparse files correctly, > > > > Uhh, we do - FFS deals with them just fine. > > Hmmmm... what was that discussion a few weeks back about sparse > files then? Tar didn't realize that FFS handled them correctly so it didn't work correctly. It has since been corrected. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 11:37:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA06979 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:37:11 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA06969 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:37:09 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA23228; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:37:21 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:37:20 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: any interest? In-Reply-To: <199504021839.LAA07473@trout.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Nate Williams wrote: > > Tar didn't realize that FFS handled them correctly so it didn't work > correctly. It has since been corrected. Ah, I see. Pass me the dunce cap then. :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 11:56:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA07944 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:56:11 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (MAIL.BARRNET.NET [131.119.245.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA07938 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:56:10 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/BARRNET-Len-Rose) id LAA03790; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:55:52 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA23384; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:54:56 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:54:55 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Removeable media support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I found several old mailing lists messages pertaining to using a Syquest removeable drive and an Iomega floptical with FreeBSD. Are there any quirks to their operation? I assume I can just stick in a cartridge with a proper filesystem and mount it? My Apple IIGS should be arriving in my hands sometime next week after clearing customs in Taiwan, and I'm thinking of connecting it's PLI floptical drive to the FreeBSD box. No particular reason, just want to try it out. Anyone else using this piece of hardware? BTW, would it be difficult to hack umount(8) to send a SCSI EJECT call with, say, the -e switch? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 12:07:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA08442 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:07:25 -0700 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA08434 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:07:22 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA04498; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:38:04 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:38:04 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199504021738.NAA04498@snoopy.mv.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199504021500.KAA03948@bonkers.taronga.com> (message from Peter da Silva on Sun, 2 Apr 1995 10:00:18 -0500 (CDT)) Subject: Re: CLISP clarification, Was: New Snapshot...Good and Bad.... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Peter" == Peter da Silva writes: >> Hmm, that beats GCL which starts life at 2.4 MB. Seems like it >> used to be smaller than that. Anyhow bear in mind that Lisp >> grows like a wart once it has to actually do anything. Peter> That's not inherent in Lisp. I was doing useful stuff in Peter> Lisp 1.5 on a PDP-11. Probably not recently, I'll bet :) I perhaps should have said that the Lisp process grows quickly as code and data are added. Peter> I can't imagine what GCL could possibly have in it to Peter> require that sort of resource utilization. I've seen some Peter> of the syntactic sugar people have added to lisp, but Peter> surely all that stuff can be considered optional? Actually GCL (formerly KCL/AKCL) is a pretty sparse implementation of CLtL1 with its kernel and many runtime functions in C. A large part of the code is the compiler which does the lisp to C conversion (with optimizations). Common Lisp the Language 2nd Edition (CLtL2) documents the additions (not really options) that are included in the ANSI Common Lisp spec - or at least what the ANSI committe was thinking in 1989/90. The first big chunk is CLOS, the object system, which has features C++ can only dream about and is one of the main reasons I prefer to work in Lisp. I can pretty quickly prototype a class structure in CLOS and test out concepts before (yuk) grinding the result into C++. comp.lang.lisp frequently erupts into discussions of the relative merits of C vs Lisp and there are folks who would like to see CL broken into a core + optional subsets just to get the memory use down - but then it wouldn't be CL. It's probably all moot anyhow as former Lisp'ers seem to be looking at Dylan for future work. But still, a language that is now around 40 years old and still represents state-of-the-art may just be around a lot longer. But this all digresses from BSD kernel hacking. Waiting for cheap gigabit RAMs and tera-ops CPUs.. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 13:00:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA09396 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:00:57 -0700 Received: from jaitken.async.vt.edu (roott@jaitken.async.vt.edu [128.173.18.165]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA09390 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:00:54 -0700 Received: (from jaitken@localhost) by jaitken.async.vt.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA06538 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:02:55 -0400 From: Jeff Aitken Message-Id: <199504030002.UAA06538@jaitken.async.vt.edu> Subject: install latest SNAPshot or wait for 2.1? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:02:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 551 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've recently gone to the trouble of downloading the latest FreeBSD snapshot (950322), but have since heard quite a few complaints about things not working. I'm still running 1.1.5.1, but would like to upgrade soon. What recommendations do you have? Should I go ahead and install now, or just wait for 2.1? If I go to 2.0-SNAP now, will I be able to upgrade to 2.1 easily, or will I have to do a complete re-install? Also, I know the deadline has been pushed back a bit, but what is the latest "due date" for 2.1? -- Jeff Aitken jaitken@vt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 13:03:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA09478 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:03:05 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA09469 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:03:01 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA27146; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:03:41 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199504022003.QAA27146@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, kimc@w8hd.w8hd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <23751.796801035@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 1, 95 09:37:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 723 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi there , > > > And can I ask who sells this for <$1400??? > > Our quantity 3 price with Ingram. > > > ST-410800N perhaps.... If you don't like that drive you might try > > the Micropolis MC1991, I always prefer Micropolis over Seagate, they > > seem to know how to make a write behind buffer that actaully works. > > I'm going to wait awhile before buying any more large drives.. > I have Seagate Barracuda 4G running for some 3+ months on SS2 - serving news . We have rather decent news -feed ( ~10.000 groups, from which 20% are almost dead , but who cares ? :). Works just fine , no problemo at all. Sometimes I kick the beast ( INN ) when it needs to be cleaned from symlink , but that's it. SY RK From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 13:12:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA09837 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:12:44 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA09830 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:12:39 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:12:01 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Paul F. Werkowski" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Paul F. Werkowski wrote: > I just happened to get a DeskJet 540 last weekend and spent > an afternoon trying to get the thing to work. I found buried > in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" along with > some install script that created a bunch of cdj-550.x print > queues and a printcap file that basically turned the Deskjet > into a postscript printer. That, along with a2ps and dvips > seems to be all that one needs to get the job done. It was > simple enough to do but it sure would be nice to have it > automated - or even a good pointer as to where to find the > needed files. > With apsfilter, everything is automated. It comes with it's own a2ps. You just need dvips, ghostscript, netpbm & pbmplus and also xfig and transfig and you should be able to print things from ascii to graphics. > By the way, the 540 is a pretty nice unit. ($279 at Staples). > Does color for $40 more. > Hmmm, how is the 540's print quality compared to the 560C and also is it better than the 520? > Paul > Cheers, Vince vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 13:26:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10193 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:26:40 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA10179 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:26:24 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07057; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:25:58 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id WAA11097 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:25:57 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA03213 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:13:51 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504022013.WAA03213@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Removeable media support To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:13:50 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Apr 3, 95 02:54:55 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1340 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Tao wrote: > > I found several old mailing lists messages pertaining to using a > Syquest removeable drive and an Iomega floptical with FreeBSD. Are > there any quirks to their operation? Oooh, are the flopticals really by Iomega? I've got hold of one (it's only borrowed, i've attached it just out of interest), and it identifies itself as ``Insite'' (which it is also labelled): (bt0:6:0): "INSITE I325VM *F 0387" is a type 0 removable SCSI 1 sd1(bt0:6:0): Direct-Access sd1(bt0:6:0): NOT READY asc:4,0 sd1(bt0:6:0): Logical unit not ready, cause not reportable sd1: could not get size 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) I could not get it to write anything. Neither on standard floppies nor on flopticals. I've once trashed a floppy with it, it required some 20 formatting cycles to get it alive again... Reading floppies happened to work. The sd driver does not know anything about how to eject the medium. I'm still interested to get it working, albeit with low priority. There are also rumours that Iomega is producing a comparably cheap removable-media drive (100 MB media, Bernoulli-type) these days, which i'd consider as a nice backup medium for things like Mail. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 13:32:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10391 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:32:15 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA10380 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:31:55 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07143; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:31:28 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id WAA11130; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:31:27 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA03414; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:30:41 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504022030.WAA03414@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: install latest SNAPshot or wait for 2.1? To: jaitken@vt.edu (Jeff Aitken) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:30:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504030002.UAA06538@jaitken.async.vt.edu> from "Jeff Aitken" at Apr 2, 95 08:02:54 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 646 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jeff Aitken wrote: > > I've recently gone to the trouble of downloading the latest FreeBSD > snapshot (950322), but have since heard quite a few complaints about > things not working. I'm still running 1.1.5.1, but would like to > upgrade soon. What recommendations do you have? It depends. For a typical ``home computer'', i'd rather say: use the snap, perhaps report about problems. For a production machine, i'm still using 1.1.5.1 myself, and i think, ftp.cdrom.com is still at 1.1.5.1... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 14:40:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA13180 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:40:14 -0700 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA13158 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:39:59 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id RAA08732; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:37:59 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:37:59 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199504022137.RAA08732@snoopy.mv.com> To: vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from -Vince- on Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:12:01 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "-Vince-" == -Vince- writes: -Vince-> Hmmm, how is the 540's print quality compared to the -Vince-> 560C and also is it better than the 520? I haven't seen those at all. I can say that printing .tex files via dvips results in quality as good as that from a $1500 DEC postscript laser printer (model 5100?) but maybe not as fast. Two-up listings are also pretty good with just a bit of quantization on the teeny letters. I also tried some of the color postscript files in the ghostscript examples area: pretty nice for the price. This mornings newpaper had an article on paper for jet printers and said that the really high quality paper makes a huge difference in color print quality. I'm using medium grade Hammermill Jetprint (about $7/500). Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 14:45:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA13711 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:45:52 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA13683 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:45:41 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <173>; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:56:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: -Vince- cc: "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > With apsfilter, everything is automated. It comes with it's own > a2ps. You just need dvips, ghostscript, netpbm & pbmplus and also xfig > and transfig and you should be able to print things from ascii to graphics. Could all of these things put into a separate "printing" distribution and included with 2.1? Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 14:47:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA13795 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:47:49 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA13789 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:47:40 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA17206 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:43:47 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 3 Apr 95 01:43:46 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA02821; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:45:06 +0400 To: Nate Williams , Brian Tao Cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L References: <199504021802.LAA00189@corbin.Root.COM> <199504021839.LAA07473@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: <199504021839.LAA07473@trout.sri.MT.net>; from Nate Williams at Sun, 2 Apr 1995 11:39:03 -0700 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:45:05 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: any interest? Lines: 21 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 748 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504021839.LAA07473@trout.sri.MT.net> Nate Williams writes: >Brian Tao writes: >> > > If we had a filesystem that dealt with sparse files correctly, >> > >> > Uhh, we do - FFS deals with them just fine. >> >> Hmmmm... what was that discussion a few weeks back about sparse >> files then? >Tar didn't realize that FFS handled them correctly so it didn't work >correctly. It has since been corrected. Use --sparse option. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 14:52:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA13889 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:52:48 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA13883 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:52:44 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:52:04 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Gary Palmer cc: "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <873.796836524@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > In message <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com>, "Paul F. Werkowski" writes: > > I just happened to get a DeskJet 540 last weekend and spent > > an afternoon trying to get the thing to work. I found buried > > in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" along with > > some install script that created a bunch of cdj-550.x print > > queues and a printcap file that basically turned the Deskjet > > into a postscript printer. That, along with a2ps and dvips > > seems to be all that one needs to get the job done. It was > > simple enough to do but it sure would be nice to have it > > automated - or even a good pointer as to where to find the > > needed files. > > I hate to say it but apsfilter is probably a better bet that gs. AFAIR it > handles DVI files internally, so you can just lpr foo.dvi and have it print. > (although it still dvips foo.dvi, (gs -whatever) foo.ps, at least it's hidden > from you :-) ) > > Gary > dvi is the only thing that is broken in the 4.9 delta version of apsfilter atleast for the deskjet is concerned... Cheers, Vince UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 15:02:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA14110 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:02:33 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA14104 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:02:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:01:52 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Paul F. Werkowski" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <199504022137.RAA08732@snoopy.mv.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Paul F. Werkowski wrote: > >>>>> "-Vince-" == -Vince- writes: > > > -Vince-> Hmmm, how is the 540's print quality compared to the > -Vince-> 560C and also is it better than the 520? > > I haven't seen those at all. I can say that printing .tex > files via dvips results in quality as good as that > from a $1500 DEC postscript laser printer (model 5100?) > but maybe not as fast. Two-up listings are also pretty good > with just a bit of quantization on the teeny letters. > Hmmm, the 560C costs $200 more than the 540 and is the printer that has both the color and black cartridge in at the same time... > I also tried some of the color postscript files in the > ghostscript examples area: pretty nice for the price. > This mornings newpaper had an article on paper for jet > printers and said that the really high quality paper > makes a huge difference in color print quality. I'm using > medium grade Hammermill Jetprint (about $7/500). > Hmmm, somehow no matter what paper I use, the ink always bleed except when I print the postscript graphics files... Do you actually mean that the Jetprint is a medium grade paper or do they have different grades of Hammermill Jetprint? Have you tried the Mead Inkjet paper? That paper didn't seem to make any difference but the Jetprint seems to be good except the paper is kind of hard to fold. > Paul > Cheers, Vince vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 15:07:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA14211 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:07:33 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA14203 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:07:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:06:51 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Tom Samplonius cc: "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Tom Samplonius wrote: > > On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > > With apsfilter, everything is automated. It comes with it's own > > a2ps. You just need dvips, ghostscript, netpbm & pbmplus and also xfig > > and transfig and you should be able to print things from ascii to graphics. > > Could all of these things put into a separate "printing" distribution > and included with 2.1? > > Tom > It should be possible since all I need to do is make a port called apsfilter and then like make the depends on the other stuff and put it into a package... Cheers, Vince UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 15:15:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA14480 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:15:36 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (root@palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA14473 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:15:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (gary@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA03493 ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:13:03 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Tom Samplonius cc: -Vince- , "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 14:55:11 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3489.796860780.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 23:13:00 +0100 Message-ID: <3490.796860780@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message , Tom Samplonius writes: > Could all of these things put into a separate "printing" distribution >and included with 2.1? Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 15:18:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA14550 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:18:10 -0700 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA14537 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:17:59 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id SAA09552; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:16:21 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:16:21 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199504022216.SAA09552@snoopy.mv.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from -Vince- on Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:01:52 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "-Vince-" == -Vince- writes: -Vince-> On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Paul F. Werkowski wrote: >> >>>>> "-Vince-" == -Vince- >> writes: >> >> -Vince-> Hmmm, somehow no matter what paper I use, the ink -Vince-> always bleed except when I print the postscript graphics -Vince-> files... Do you actually mean that the Jetprint is a -Vince-> medium grade paper or do they have different grades of -Vince-> Hammermill Jetprint? Have you tried the Mead Inkjet -Vince-> paper? That paper didn't seem to make any difference but -Vince-> the Jetprint seems to be good except the paper is kind of -Vince-> hard to fold. I said medium grade because the newspaper article suggested that it was: lets see if I can find the article... Yes, "Hammermill Jet Print (200 sheets for $5) produced marginally better results than the quality laser bond and significantly better color than my everyday paper. But it didn't come close th the coated paper." The coated paper here was Avery Brilliant Color stock ($.16/sheet). The Jet Print is "a relatively inexpensive paper marketed for ink jet printers". I agree that it is a bit stiffer than our normal printer fodder. I haven't tried the Mead. I guess you don't recommend it. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 15:31:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA14684 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:31:18 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA14678 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 15:31:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:30:27 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Gary Palmer cc: Tom Samplonius , "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <3490.796860780@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > In message , Tom Samplonius writes: > > Could all of these things put into a separate "printing" distribution > >and included with 2.1? > > Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. > I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will > give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. > > Gary > That would be neat.... netpbm doesn't have like the giftoppm and the other ppm stuff that pbmplus has... Also, the dvips and the TeX in the FreeBSD ports collection is broken in that dvips can't create fonts while running in the background... Cheers, Vince vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 16:09:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA15386 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:09:00 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15379 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:08:50 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <202>; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:19:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:18:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Gary Palmer cc: -Vince- , "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <3490.796860780@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > In message , Tom Samplonius writes: > > Could all of these things put into a separate "printing" distribution > >and included with 2.1? > > Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. > I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will > give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. Been nice to have them lumped into an optional distribution, rather than to have to install each one separately, then cofigure each component to work with each other. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 16:20:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA15661 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:20:40 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (root@palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15654 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:20:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (gary@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA03744 ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:17:41 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Tom Samplonius cc: -Vince- , "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 16:18:29 PDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3740.796864658.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 00:17:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3741.796864659@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message , Tom Sa mplonius writes: > Been nice to have them lumped into an optional distribution, rather >than to have to install each one separately, then cofigure each component >to work with each other. The whole point of apsfilter is that you only have to configure it, all the rest work as shipped (or should do). It's also being looked at if we can provide some nice front ends to the installation of some stuff so that people can get a full system up very quickly and without having to read a single man page, just answer some simple questions. That's why (if you read the commit mail) there is all this work going on in /etc/rc*, so that sysinstall (or son-of-sysinstall) can auto-configure the majority of the system from a couple of menu prompts. And I think (Jordan?) that if you are internet connected or installing off the CDROM, you'll just have to pick them off a menu and they'll be automatically installed (and possibly configured). This entire print configuration system (i.e. /etc/printcap) probably needs re-evaluating, as printcap is based on termcap, and termcap is not exactly the easiest configuration file to use... (and we are looking at setting up something where if you (for example) install tkined, you'll have tcl, tk, tcl-DP, etc installed automatically rather than having to know that you need those installed for it to work) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 17:49:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA17221 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:49:58 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA17214 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:49:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Paul F. Werkowski" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <199504022216.SAA09552@snoopy.mv.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Paul F. Werkowski wrote: > >>>>> "-Vince-" == -Vince- writes: > > -Vince-> On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Paul F. Werkowski wrote: > >> >>>>> "-Vince-" == -Vince- > >> writes: > >> > >> > > -Vince-> Hmmm, somehow no matter what paper I use, the ink > -Vince-> always bleed except when I print the postscript graphics > -Vince-> files... Do you actually mean that the Jetprint is a > -Vince-> medium grade paper or do they have different grades of > -Vince-> Hammermill Jetprint? Have you tried the Mead Inkjet > -Vince-> paper? That paper didn't seem to make any difference but > -Vince-> the Jetprint seems to be good except the paper is kind of > -Vince-> hard to fold. > > I said medium grade because the newspaper article suggested > that it was: lets see if I can find the article... > > Yes, "Hammermill Jet Print (200 sheets for $5) produced > marginally better results than the quality laser bond > and significantly better color than my everyday paper. But > it didn't come close th the coated paper." The coated paper > here was Avery Brilliant Color stock ($.16/sheet). The Jet > Print is "a relatively inexpensive paper marketed for ink > jet printers". > Are any of these papers actually the type with a watermark? I wonder if any Watermark papers actually work well with the DeskJets. Did they say anything about Strathmore Papers since those seem to be pretty good papers. > I agree that it is a bit stiffer than our normal printer fodder. > I haven't tried the Mead. I guess you don't recommend it. > Actually, you can try it since both Mead and Hammermill sends free samples of the papers that they make... Hammermills come in packs of 10 for samples while the Mead ULTRATECH 24lb comes in sample of 25 sheets... Both Hammermill and Mead has a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee. The number for Mead is 1-800-832-MEAD and the number for Hammermill is 1-800-242-2148. Let me know how they compare. Hammermill sends by RPS while Mead uses UPS for the shipping of the samples. > Paul Cheers, Vince vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 18:00:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA17409 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:00:41 -0700 Received: from netcom13.netcom.com (bakul@netcom13.netcom.com [192.100.81.125]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA17400 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 18:00:39 -0700 Received: from localhost by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.11/Netcom) id RAA26342; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 17:57:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199504030057.RAA26342@netcom13.netcom.com> To: Mike Pritchard cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: swap space (was Re: any interest?) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 05:30:21 CDT." <199504021030.FAA04207@mpp.com> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 17:57:40 -0700 From: Bakul Shah Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > - We no longer (or hardly ever) swap out entire process > > images like we used to. [`We' == all moderen Unixes] > I used to work for Cray Research, and when I left (1.5 years ago), > we were still swapping entire procs, but then again we didn't > have virtual memory :-). I did say `modern Unixes' :-) > Another thing to look at is the profile of the proc being swapped out. > Can the image be compressed? I've seen in the past that some of > the more "scientific" type procs (ok, ok, F77 programs, or programs > by people who have never heard of "malloc" and have HUGE arrays > defined right from the start of their program that never get filled > until the last few minutes of the program run) tend to contain a lot of > pages of zero that could be written as compressed files, or as sparse > files in a file system swap concept. This may be a factor for swapping whole process images but probably not for swapping out individual pages as pages that are never touched won't be swapped out. > Yes/no, and as you state, it is difficult to determine which processes > are really "cooperating". E.g. "x | y". Both of those processes are > related, and swapping of either can greatly affect the other, depending > on the application. Clearly a research problem :-)/2 BTW, this is one place where having multiple threads in a single address space may be a win. > The problem here is that you can run into a SERIOUS deadlock/performance > problem on a busy system if you are never able to swap the "working set" > back in. Believe be...been there, done that. Good point. I don't know the answer. Need to think about it. > > - Do we really need to preallocate all the swap space we > > may ever need? That seems like a poor use of space. > > I've always felt that swap space was kinda a waste, but on a very busy > system if you shared that space with something else (/tmp?), your > swapping algorithms changes a lot. What happens if someone gobbles > up all that space and now you have no place to swap that huge process? I was really talking about preallocation for *all* the processes that can ever run simulteneously -- which is what a separate swap partition is, in essence. For individual processes I agree that the swap space they need should be preallocated. > > - As long as there is backing store for the total amount of > > virtual space allocated, everyone can make progress. > > Beyond that why should the swap space resource be treated > > any different from normal files? > Again, you might choose a different scheduling/swap strategy > depending on how much swap space you think/know you have available. I agree with you. Now that beellions and beelions (a slight exaggeration) have access to the kernel sources may be people will start experimenting and coming up with better algrotithms/strategies. > Just my opinions & ideas. Just wait till I get a multi-cpu Pentium clone > and want to run FreeBSD with 2+ CPUs :-)!!! Waiting... :-) Actually I have a lot to say about MP-izing traditional Unixes but I'll spare you that:-) -- bakul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 19:26:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA19252 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:26:26 -0700 Received: from victor.innovus.com (victor.innovus.com [192.75.186.54]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA19246 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:26:23 -0700 Received: (from martin@localhost) by victor.innovus.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA16955 for hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:34:41 -0400 From: Martin Renters Message-Id: <199504030234.WAA16955@victor.innovus.com> Subject: netboot for each card? To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:34:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 529 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was just looking at that recent changes made to include the 3C509 support. It seems netboot has now expanded past the 16K boundary, making the ROM version as distributed useless. We could bump the size of the ROM image to 32K, but some cards may not work with ROMs of that size. I was wondering if it makes sense to build a netboot.rom for each of the supported cards. This would leave us with a smaller that 16K rom image (hopefully) for each of the cards which could then actually be used by somebody. Comments? Martin From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 19:34:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA19530 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:34:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA19522 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:34:48 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA26782; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:34:29 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504030234.TAA26782@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: netboot for each card? To: martin@victor.innovus.com (Martin Renters) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504030234.WAA16955@victor.innovus.com> from "Martin Renters" at Apr 2, 95 10:34:40 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 788 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was just looking at that recent changes made to include the 3C509 > support. It seems netboot has now expanded past the 16K boundary, > making the ROM version as distributed useless. We could bump the size of > the ROM image to 32K, but some cards may not work with ROMs of that size. > > I was wondering if it makes sense to build a netboot.rom for each of the > supported cards. This would leave us with a smaller that 16K rom image > (hopefully) for each of the cards which could then actually be used by > somebody. How about just making sufficient ...rom files that none of them is above 16k. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 19:54:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA19946 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:54:32 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA19937 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:54:26 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id WAA04847; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:54:07 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:54:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?= cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: supfiles [was] ports/games Makefile In-Reply-To: <199504030220.TAA08860@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?= wrote: > I'm not a sup expert (I don't even use it, as I said earlier ;) but > from my casual observation on the -hackers list, I have an impression > that you need to modify something in the supfile to match the path to > your -current source on your machine. Maybe the above is it? > > Did you read the sup FAQ? Maybe you can find something there. (No, I > don't know what's in it, this is just another blind shot at the dark.) Thanks for the shot, I must not have been reading -hackers when the change was made. The sup I was using is on freefall:/pub/sup 3297 Oct 25 13:49 supfile I added ports-graphics to this and snarfed the required stuff, now I wonder if anyone who uses SUP regularly knows of a location where a more recent supfile is kept? kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 19:57:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA19969 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:57:19 -0700 Received: from ix4.ix.netcom.com (ix4.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA19963 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:57:14 -0700 Received: from by ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id TAA03079; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:53:49 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:53:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199504030253.TAA03079@ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: Config wishlist. To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How difficult would it be to change the system, so that the whole kermel doesn't need to be rebuilt whenever you change a jumper setting? Can't we get the kernel to scan the GENERIC (or whatever) file at boot time to resolve the addresses, etc. ?? Don't we only need to know which devices are going to be present to build the kernel? If we don't tell the system until boot time where the devices are, won't we move millenia ahead toward achieving plug-n-play? I know that -c will let me do it by hand, but then I have to recompile to make the changes permanent, or have I missed something? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 20:03:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA20173 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:03:41 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20167 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:03:37 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id XAA04937; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:03:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:03:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: xboing and library error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tried to compile xboing and we get this lib error: ld.so: xboing: libXpm.so.4.5: Undefined error: 0 The xpm libs were obtained in a sup session at ~0230 4/3 and xpm appears to compile without a problem. The xboing compile was tried using the Makefile: 342 Apr 2 16:27 Makefile Any help here is greatly appreciated. kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 20:28:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA20510 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:28:07 -0700 Received: from news.iadfw.net (jbryant@news.iadfw.net [204.178.72.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20504 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:28:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (jbryant@localhost) by news.iadfw.net (8.6.5/8.6.6) id WAA01237; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:27:40 -0500 From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199504030327.WAA01237@news.iadfw.net> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: bugs@ns1.win.net (Mark Hittinger) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:27:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503312109.QAA03647@ns1.win.net> from "Mark Hittinger" at Mar 31, 95 04:09:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1129 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > From: Mark Hittinger > Subject: 4 gig st15150n disk setups > To: hackers@FreeBSD.org > Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 16:09:01 -0500 (EST) > > I've been trying to get this disk configured for a few minutes and wanted > to ask if anybody has fought this battle yet. > > I suspect that I want to have two 2 gig partitions and have tried to set > the disk up that way. > > Fdisk and disklabel seem to not want to cooperate with me. If I create > one two gig partition it seems to eliminate the other one. > > I'm using various snap boot disks including the latest 3/22 disk. > > E-mail any setup hints please > > Regards, > > Mark Hittinger > bugs@win.net We are running two of these here at server. I didn't have any problems at all setting them up. how are you laying out the partitions? Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@server.iadfw.net, System administrator, Internet America From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 20:48:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA20886 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:48:08 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20879 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:47:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA03876; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:47:04 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504031447.JAA03876@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Strange behavior of network subsystem To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:47:03 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199503220845.AAA04589@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Mar 22, 95 00:45:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3259 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have tried to ftp to/from ICL minicomputer and found some strangeness in behavior of FBSD's network subsystem. This ICL wants TCP window to be set to 24K, and FBSD sets them to 17K. But then it begins to lose interrupts. First I throught that network driver does this and found that it really sometimes does this when tansmitting files. Fix for 3C509 driver is at end of message. But when receiving files the problem is somewhere in IP or TCP. It receives about 100K then stops for about 2 seconds. I have tried to run network card's watchdog routine 50 times per second but this gave no effect. Therefore problem is not in driver. When transmitting/receiving to/from BSDI machine everything goes OK (with TCP window size 4K). And now fix for 3C509 driver (relative -current or wcarchive.cdrom.com: pub/incoming/3c509.tgz): *** 1.6 1995/03/28 07:12:59 --- if_ep.c 1995/04/03 03:02:06 *************** *** 422,427 **** --- 422,428 ---- ifp->if_start = epstart; ifp->if_ioctl = epioctl; ifp->if_watchdog = epwatchdog; + ifp->if_timer=1; if_attach(ifp); ep_registerdev(is); *************** *** 487,494 **** --- 488,497 ---- register struct ifnet *ifp = &sc->arpcom.ac_if; int s, i, j; + /* if (ifp->if_addrlist == (struct ifaddr *) 0) return; + */ s = splimp(); while (inw(BASE + EP_STATUS) & S_COMMAND_IN_PROGRESS); *************** *** 751,756 **** --- 754,761 ---- struct ifnet *ifp = &sc->arpcom.ac_if; struct mbuf *m; + outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK); /* disable all Ints */ + rescan: while ((status = inw(BASE + EP_STATUS)) & S_5_INTS) { *************** *** 765,770 **** --- 770,777 ---- if (status & S_TX_AVAIL) { /* we need ACK */ sc->arpcom.ac_if.if_flags &= ~IFF_OACTIVE; + GO_WINDOW(1); + inw(BASE + EP_W1_FREE_TX); epstart(&sc->arpcom.ac_if); } if (status & S_CARD_FAILURE) { *************** *** 820,825 **** --- 827,836 ---- outb(BASE + EP_W1_TX_STATUS, 0x0); /* pops up the next * status */ } /* while */ + sc->arpcom.ac_if.if_flags &= ~IFF_OACTIVE; + GO_WINDOW(1); + inw(BASE + EP_W1_FREE_TX); + epstart(&sc->arpcom.ac_if); } /* end TX_COMPLETE */ } *************** *** 827,832 **** --- 838,847 ---- if ((status = inw(BASE + EP_STATUS)) & S_5_INTS) goto rescan; + + /* re-enable Ints */ + outw(BASE + EP_COMMAND, SET_INTR_MASK | S_5_INTS); + } void *************** *** 1184,1194 **** int unit; { struct ep_softc *sc = &ep_softc[unit]; log(LOG_ERR, "ep%d: watchdog\n", unit); ++sc->arpcom.ac_if.if_oerrors; ! epreset(unit); } void --- 1199,1219 ---- int unit; { struct ep_softc *sc = &ep_softc[unit]; + struct ifnet *ifp=&sc->arpcom.ac_if; + + /* + printf("ep: watchdog\n"); log(LOG_ERR, "ep%d: watchdog\n", unit); ++sc->arpcom.ac_if.if_oerrors; + */ + + /* epreset(unit); */ + ifp->if_flags &= ~IFF_OACTIVE; + epstart(ifp); + epintr(unit); ! ifp->if_timer=1; } void Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 20:51:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA20949 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:51:44 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA20943 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:51:42 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rvdB1-00030WC; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:51 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Adaptec 2740 question To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (freebsd-hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:51:43 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 598 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just installed an Adaptec 2740 in one of my systems and for some reason both the EISA configuration utility and the aic7xxx device driver think that this is a twin channel adapter (2740T, I think). Since the connnector for Channel B is not installed on the card it can't hardly be one. On boot the channel B is being probed (of course there's nothing there). Is this normal? Note that this system also has a BusLogic BT-747S with two disks, which is where the FreeBSD system is installed and is booting from. Thanks, -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 20:54:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA21029 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:54:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA21021; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:54:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Martin Renters cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: netboot for each card? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 22:34:40 EDT." <199504030234.WAA16955@victor.innovus.com> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 20:54:54 -0700 Message-ID: <21020.796881294@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was wondering if it makes sense to build a netboot.rom for each of the > supported cards. This would leave us with a smaller that 16K rom image > (hopefully) for each of the cards which could then actually be used by > somebody. That certainly makes a lot of sense to me! Is it easy to break out? I guess you just do multiple passes with the appropriate compile-time flags set? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 20:56:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA21056 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:56:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA21049; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:56:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Config wishlist. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 19:53:49 PDT." <199504030253.TAA03079@ix4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 20:56:13 -0700 Message-ID: <21048.796881373@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I know that -c will let me do it by hand, but then I have to recompile > to make the changes permanent, or have I missed something? The default rc files now snapshot the information back with `dset'. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 20:57:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA21068 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:57:11 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA21062 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 20:56:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA03885; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:56:37 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504031456.JAA03885@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: netboot for each card? To: martin@victor.innovus.com (Martin Renters) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:56:37 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504030234.WAA16955@victor.innovus.com> from "Martin Renters" at Apr 2, 95 10:34:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1057 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was just looking at that recent changes made to include the 3C509 > support. It seems netboot has now expanded past the 16K boundary, Yes, if it includes support for all cards. But when I tried to run netboot.com with support for all cards what has size more than 16K it goes crazy. Probably 16K limit is compiled somewhere as a constant ? > making the ROM version as distributed useless. We could bump the size of > the ROM image to 32K, but some cards may not work with ROMs of that size. > > I was wondering if it makes sense to build a netboot.rom for each of the > supported cards. This would leave us with a smaller that 16K rom image > (hopefully) for each of the cards which could then actually be used by > somebody. > > Comments? Nice idea. And to build netboot.com for each of the supported cards because I think that anybody wants first to be shure that it really works with his card and only then to burn it into ROM. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 21:01:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21100 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:01:18 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21094 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:01:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03326; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:00:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199504030400.VAA03326@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Config wishlist. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 19:53:49 PDT." <199504030253.TAA03079@ix4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 21:00:31 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >How difficult would it be to change the system, so that the whole kermel >doesn't need to be rebuilt whenever you change a jumper setting? > >Can't we get the kernel to scan the GENERIC (or whatever) file at boot >time to resolve the addresses, etc. ?? > >Don't we only need to know which devices are going to be present to >build the kernel? If we don't tell the system until boot time where the >devices are, won't we move millenia ahead toward achieving plug-n-play? > >I know that -c will let me do it by hand, but then I have to recompile >to make the changes permanent, or have I missed something? Check out the "dset" command. > >Paul > -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 21:07:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21223 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:07:43 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA21217 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:07:40 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <07250-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:06:50 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id KAA19412 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:59:20 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id AAA22343 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:56:50 GMT Message-Id: <199504030056.AAA22343@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6beta 3/23/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Newer versions of ProAudio sound cards - any experience? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 10:56:49 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to track down a ProAudio Soundcard, now that Media Vision has moved onto some new versions of their cards. Has anyone had any experience in running the new sound cards with the newer SCSI chips and Sound stuff under freebsd 2.1-current? Stephen I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 21:49:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21835 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:49:29 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21828 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:49:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA03988; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:49:04 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504031549.KAA03988@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:49:04 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504010658.AA08921@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Mar 31, 95 11:58:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 902 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The main problem is that there needs to be file system support for the > idea of additional disk space ...ie: one place where you can add > things on. > > This will work with IBM's JFS (obviously) or with a log structured > file system, but precious little else. UFS is particularly badly > suited to doing this. If you do what SPRITE does and shove all > the inodes in one area and all of the data blocks in another, you > can sort of do this for UFS. The alternative is to preallocate > a major large number of inodes in the first place (which is what I > did) or to backup, remkfs the file system after adding the storage, > and restore everything. HP has UFS (they name it HFS) on LVM. I'm not shure but I think that they use "cylinder group" as a quantum of space allocation. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 21:55:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21893 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:55:06 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21887 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:55:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03692; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:54:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199504030454.VAA03692@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (freebsd-hackers) Subject: Re: Adaptec 2740 question In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 22:51:43 CDT." Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 21:54:47 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I just installed an Adaptec 2740 in one of my systems and for some >reason both the EISA configuration utility and the aic7xxx device >driver think that this is a twin channel adapter (2740T, I think). >Since the connnector for Channel B is not installed on the card it >can't hardly be one. The way that both the FreeBSD driver and the EISA configuration utitlity tell this is by doing a chip reset on the card and looking for a specific value in a register. Someone in the Linux camp had this happen to a 2740 that had been working fine for some time. He said that pulling the adaptor out and reinserting it in the slot fixed the problem. It might be worth a try. >On boot the channel B is being probed (of course there's nothing >there). Is this normal? Well, does it hang your system? If not, then don't do anything. If it does, you can disable the B-channel probe in the driver. Just take a look at the ahc_attach routine in i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c. >Note that this system also has a BusLogic BT-747S with two disks, >which is where the FreeBSD system is installed and is booting from. > >Thanks, >-- >Bob Willcox >bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) >Austin, TX -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 22:00:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA22476 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:00:21 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA22468 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:00:20 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rveFO-00030aC; Mon, 3 Apr 95 00:00 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: Adaptec 2740 question To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:00:17 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504030454.VAA03692@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 2, 95 09:54:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 576 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > >On boot the channel B is being probed (of course there's nothing > >there). Is this normal? > > Well, does it hang your system? If not, then don't do anything. If > it does, you can disable the B-channel probe in the driver. Just > take a look at the ahc_attach routine in i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c. No, proceeds on following the normal SCSI delay ok. Guess I'll let it go for now. Next time I have the machine apart I'll try the reseating trick you mentioned. Thanks, -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 22:45:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA25321 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:45:25 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA25315 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:45:24 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id WAA03032 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:45:08 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504030545.WAA03032@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: ioctl(): sync vs. async To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:45:08 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 192 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! Should a device driver process ioctl's synchronously or asynchronously? Or, should it depend upon the current file mode? (These questions wrt 1.1.5.1R, please). Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 23:27:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA26850 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:27:39 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA26844 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:27:39 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504031549.KAA03988@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 3, 95 10:49:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 469 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > This will work with IBM's JFS (obviously) or with a log structured > > file system, but precious little else. UFS is particularly badly > > suited to doing this. If you do what SPRITE does and shove all I beg to disagreee, but the UFS can easily be extended.. if you have it over a LVM that can give you extra space, then you can add additional cylinder groups without too much pain.... (I believe OSF1 may have this.. I'll have to check my sources) julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 23:39:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA27811 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:39:33 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (MAIL.BARRNET.NET [131.119.245.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27804 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:39:32 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/BARRNET-Len-Rose) id XAA05416; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:39:12 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA24130; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:38:22 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:38:21 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Removeable media support In-Reply-To: <199504022013.WAA03213@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > > Oooh, are the flopticals really by Iomega? I don't know, I just grabbed those messages off the mailing list archive on www.freebsd.org. > I've got hold of one (it's > only borrowed, i've attached it just out of interest), and it > identifies itself as ``Insite'' (which it is also labelled): > > (bt0:6:0): "INSITE I325VM *F 0387" is a type 0 removable SCSI 1 This is the model that I have. > sd1(bt0:6:0): Direct-Access > sd1(bt0:6:0): NOT READY asc:4,0 > sd1(bt0:6:0): Logical unit not ready, cause not reportable > sd1: could not get size > 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) > > I could not get it to write anything. Neither on standard floppies > nor on flopticals. I've once trashed a floppy with it, it required > some 20 formatting cycles to get it alive again... This is booting with a formatted floptical in place? I had problems with the floptical on the GS until I upgraded the ROM on my SCSI controller to recognize a removeable SCSI device that could have changing sector sizes and block densities (it was doubling as a 1.44-meg floppy drive). > I'm still interested to get it working, albeit with low priority. No real need to have a floptical working, but I thought it would be nice to have around. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Apr 2 23:42:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA27939 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:42:14 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA27933 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:42:12 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA24148; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:42:22 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:42:22 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Config wishlist. In-Reply-To: <21048.796881373@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The default rc files now snapshot the information back with `dset'. Is there a man page for this? -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 00:09:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA28442 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:09:04 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA28416 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:09:00 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA09580; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:08:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:08:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199504030708.AAA09580@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: kimc@w8hd.w8hd.org CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: (message from Kim Culhan on Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:03:16 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: xboing and library error From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ("ports" might have been more appropriate for this...but I'll leave it in "hackers" for now) * Tried to compile xboing and we get this lib error: * * ld.so: xboing: libXpm.so.4.5: Undefined error: 0 I just tried it on thud (running -current from a few days ago, it appears) and it compiled fine. I remember there was a problem with the linker (with shared libs) that caused mh compilation to bomb (that hasn't been fixed yet, though). Anybody else seeing this? Also, you may want to try to get the xpm package and see if that will make your linker happy. It seems to me like the xpm library is somehow not built correctly. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 00:15:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA28650 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:15:09 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA28644 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:15:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA09011; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:05:42 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504030705.JAA09011@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: NE2000 Plus performance To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:05:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504021554.LAA01057@mail.htp.com> from "dennis" at Apr 2, 95 11:54:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2037 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Poking around with the configuration program of our ethernet cards > >(NE2000 clones manufactured by Trust), I found out that they have a mode > >(called NE2000 plus) in which they apparently use shared memory (at > >least, the setup menu asks you to select a memory address. > > > >Is this mode supported by the current if_ed driver, and is it documented > >anywhere ? (I am asking because I remember discussion on the relative > >performance of WD80x3 -- better, using shared memory -- and NE2000 > > This NE2000+ is a pretty interesting character...its almost a contradiction. > The only good reason (and it IS a good reason) to use an NE2000 is that you > don't have to worry about conflicts with other adapters. But an NE2000 with > shared memory really is just a non-compatible WD8013, since they both use > the same processor. If they're as inexpensive as NE2000 clones though...now > this would be good. We have an NE2000 driver for our VLB NE2000 that we > could easily modify to support the NE2000+. Please give me some info on > pricing and who sells them. If they cost the same or close to an SMC card, > forget it. I'd rather use SMC. They are sold by TRUST and are priced around 70.000 Itl incl. VAT (this was a couple of months ago, the lira has gone way down since...), which means probably less than US$ 45. The SMC cards cost three times as much (not to mention the fact that the 8013 has practically disappeared). I think it would be a good thing if the ed driver could support the NE200plus mode. And, from what you say, most of the code should already be in the ed driver (assuming, of course, that you know how to recognize a 2000plus and to handle it). Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 00:27:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA28961 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:27:56 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA28950 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:27:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA09037; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:18:03 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504030718.JAA09037@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: NE2000 Plus performance To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:18:02 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020459.UAA00129@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 1, 95 08:59:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1415 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's not supported. I didn't even know of the NE2000+ existence until you > mentioned here. Ok. A couple of questions about network ards and drivers, though: 1) how much faster are memory-mapped cards wrt io-mapped ones ? Is it just the clock cycle per word that you save in transferring data with MOVSW instead of INSW, or there is more (e.g. the driver does more or less random access to the board, thus has to waste time specifying the address of the desired data quite often) ? 2) not long ago,, if memory serves, it was mentioned that the network drivers in freebsd use only one buffer for tx data, and the rest of the memory for rx packets. If this is true, how can it work at full network speed ? I mean, while the buffer is busy because the packet is being sent, you cannot refill it to send the next packet back-to-back. Unless, of course, the "one tx buffer" was actually "one tx buffer for data queued to the controller", and there is other memory that the CPU can use to prepare the next packet. Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 00:49:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA29217 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:49:09 -0700 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA29207 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:49:01 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA01895; Mon, 3 Apr 95 09:48:39 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA23069; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:54:06 +0200 Message-Id: <199504030754.JAA23069@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Undf'd symbol in vat_audio on -current To: kimc@w8hd.w8hd.org (Kim Culhan) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:54:06 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Culhan" at Apr 2, 95 01:48:28 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 840 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Rebuilt from -current sup'd about 0400 UTC 4/2. > > Kernel build then complains: > > loading kernel > vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text segment > vat_audio.o: Undefined symbol `_DMAbuf_start_input' referenced from text segment > *** Error code 1 > > Any suggestions on getting around this are greatly appreciated. /sys/i386/isa/sound/dmabuf.c had this routine defined static (that was about three weeks ago). I looked into -current and they are now global so the undefined reference you are mentioning should no longer occur. > > regards > kim > > -- > kimc@w8hd.org > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Sat Apr 1 17:12:08 MET DST 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 01:08:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA29681 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:08:33 -0700 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA29661 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:08:22 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA02023; Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:07:58 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id KAA23103 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:13:26 +0200 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:13:26 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Message-Id: <199504030813.KAA23103@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: BSD 'trade mark' Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan and other FreeBSD-Incers, under glass hung at my offices walls I have some snipped out articles from CTR (Computer Technology Review) out of 1989 (or so) - didn't yet find the exact year on one of the articles. Anyway, one of them is headed: "DESPITE UNIX BENEFITS UNIFICATION IS STILL ELUSIVE" Nearly 50% of UNIX facilities differ from BSD to System V ^^^ -------------------- by Mark J. Hatch, Apollo Computer Inc. -------------------- In the same issue "Ritchie defends UNIX against its critics". Just FYI in the course of searching for examples of BSD mentioning as a 'non trademark' usage. Again, sorry that I can't find out the exact issue #/date since tha articles are cut out of the mag. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Sat Apr 1 17:12:08 MET DST 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 01:28:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA00256 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:28:44 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA00247 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 01:28:28 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA14278; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:22:29 +1000 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:22:29 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504030822.SAA14278@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: NE2000 Plus performance Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >1) how much faster are memory-mapped cards wrt io-mapped ones ? Is it > just the clock cycle per word that you save in transferring data > with MOVSW instead of INSW, or there is more (e.g. the driver That is about the only difference for mine. Much more than one clock cycle (at 8MHz) is saved. The memory mapped interface runs at about 3MB/sec while the i/o mapped interface runs at about 2MB/sec. Right now for an Addtron(?) AE-200JL in NE2000 mode on a 486DX2/66-VLB while running ttcp -r, systat reports the following overheads: 17.5%Sys 81.9%Intr 0.5%User 0.0%Nice 0.1%Idl i.e., the system is saturated. For the same setup except in WD8013EBT mode on a 486DX/33-ISA, the overheads are only 20.7%Sys 52.9%Intr 1.2%User 0.0%Nice 25.2%Idl This shows that NE2000 mode has more than 29% overhead for copying data from the ISA bus alone (the ISA bus is approximately equally slow for equivalent i/o's on the two machines). The interrupt overhead won't be much lower than 52.9% on faster (ISA) machines. I think wait states limit the MOVSW speed to 3.3MB/sec on my systems, so 1100K/sec for ethernet input must cost 33%. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 02:06:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA01351 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:06:09 -0700 Received: from vmbb.cts.com (vmbb.cts.com [192.188.72.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA01345 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:06:07 -0700 Received: from io.cts.com by vmbb.cts.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0rvi4r-0000BNC; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:05 PDT Received: (from root@localhost) by io.cts.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA00766; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:05:39 -0700 From: Morgan Davis Message-Id: <199504030905.CAA00766@io.cts.com> Subject: Re: Newer versions of ProAudio sound cards - any experience? To: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au (Stephen Hocking) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504030056.AAA22343@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> from "Stephen Hocking" at Apr 3, 95 10:56:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 314 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stephen Hocking writes: > > I'm trying to track down a ProAudio Soundcard, now that Media Vision has moved > onto some new versions of their cards. Has anyone had any experience in > running the new sound cards with the newer SCSI chips and Sound stuff under > freebsd 2.1-current? How do you define "newer"? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 02:17:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA02071 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:17:17 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA02065 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:17:15 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <11035-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:16:52 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id TAA29629; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:20:40 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id JAA27983; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:18:08 GMT Message-Id: <199504030918.JAA27983@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6beta 3/23/95 To: Morgan Davis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Newer versions of ProAudio sound cards - any experience? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 02:05:39 MST." <199504030905.CAA00766@io.cts.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 19:18:07 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Stephen Hocking writes: > > > > I'm trying to track down a ProAudio Soundcard, now that Media Vision has moved > > onto some new versions of their cards. Has anyone had any experience in > > running the new sound cards with the newer SCSI chips and Sound stuff under > > freebsd 2.1-current? > > How do you define "newer"? Well, there's the PAS-16, which has been superseded by the 3D and other cards that can do wavetable synthesis. Stephen I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 02:20:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA02131 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:20:23 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA02125 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:20:19 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with SMTP id LAA27560 ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:20:22 +0200 Received: by blaise.ibp.fr (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08358; Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:19:46 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <9504030919.AA08358@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:19:46 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: tom@haven.uniserve.com, vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu, pw@snoopy.MV.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <3490.796860780@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Apr 2, 95 11:13:00 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 481 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. > I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will > give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. Where one may find the latest version of apsfilter ? I used archie and it came out with a 1.11 version of it... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 02:33:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA02295 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:33:12 -0700 Received: from a1fel.feld.cvut.cz (root@a1fel.feld.cvut.cz [147.32.192.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA02287 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 02:33:09 -0700 Received: by a1fel.feld.cvut.cz id AA31799 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:29:00 +0200 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:29:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: Honza Kostal To: Gary Palmer Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <873.796836524@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > I hate to say it but apsfilter is probably a better bet that gs. AFAIR it > handles DVI files internally, so you can just lpr foo.dvi and have it print. > (although it still dvips foo.dvi, (gs -whatever) foo.ps, at least it's hidden > from you :-) ) I think write script which do right this is so easy ... I have this setup for my DeskJet 320, and work fine. There are two filters, one for .dvi files (lpr -d file.dvi) which call dvips and gs, the other for .ps files (lpr -c file.ps, -c option is dedicated for CifPlot format, and because I don't know what is CifPlot, I use it for PS :-) Honza Kostal jenik@feld.cvut.cz FIDO: 2:420/12 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 03:38:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA03454 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 03:38:30 -0700 Received: from gategn.telecom.ptt.nl (gategn.telecom.ptt.nl [193.79.184.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA03438 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 03:37:46 -0700 Received: by gategn.telecom.ptt.nl (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14672; Mon, 3 Apr 95 13:29:15 GMT From: ben@telecom.ptt.nl (Ben Suurmeijer) Message-Id: <9504031059.AA18909@hdxu03.telecom.ptt.nl> Subject: COFF/SCO binaries To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:59:04 +0100 (MET) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1059 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm curious if someone could help me. I would like to use a SCO binary, so I made a new kernel with the folliwing options: "COMPAT_IBCS2" "IBCS2" I tried to run the program and got the following error: libsocket: open(/dev/socksys) failure: No such file or directory I presume this is not an easy one, but can these binaries work on FreeBSD 2.0? Has someone done something similar? Has anybody managed it to run Oracle? If you could point me to more information I would appreciate it. I looked into the mailing archives, but I didn't find anything apropriate. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Suurmeijer | Telephone : +31 50 851041 PTT Telecom B.V. | Telefax : +31 50 855122 I&AT | E-mail : B.Suurmeijer@telecom.ptt.nl P.O. Box 188 | DISCLAIMER: This Statement is not an official NL-9700 AD Groningen | statement from, nor does it represent an The Netherlands | official position of, PTT Telecom B.V. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 04:56:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA04554 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 04:56:45 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA04548 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 04:56:44 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id EAA02326; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 04:56:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 04:56:27 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199504031156.EAA02326@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Cc: hasty@netcom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Now I just need to figure out how to use it! ;-) Some others may find my progress, or lack thereof, enlightening: 1. Crank up sound card (SB16), make sure it at least works from the /dev/audio viewpoint. Don't know of SB16 will *work*, but at least I know I can deal with audio on a fairly generic level. 2. Go on hunting expedition to ftp.ee.lbl.gov and grab wb, sd, vat and nv. 3. Bring up sd.. Nothing... Wait.. Ok, here they come! The House and Senate are both yacking away, there's a couple of general meetings, Hmmmm. Ah! World Radio something - and it's transmitting! 4. Click on World Radio something.. Up comes VAT. Hmmmmm. A bunch of people down the left hand side.. Listening? Hmmm. I can select them, there's a radio channel "broadcasting" since I can click shift-left and see the packets fly in. But nothing on the speaker! No audio! Foo! 5. Click on lecture at University of Illinois.. Up comes nv. Information about grabbers, video transmit bandwidth, blah blah.. No pictures! No sound! 6. Play with about 5 other things, briefly joining a shared whiteboard at Cisco (only member - went away again), basically a wash-out. Nothing feeps, flashes or jumps out of my computer except the noise of me softly clicking on the mouse. What's the story with this stuff? Have I got the wrong hardware? Is it a send-only broadcast network? :-) What do most folks do with these cute little InterViews based toys? Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 05:05:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA04776 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 05:05:17 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA04764 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 05:05:14 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:04:53 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:04:54 -0500 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/i386/conf Makefile.i386 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rod Grimes writes : >> >> nate 95/04/02 18:13:51 >> >> Modified: sys/i386/conf Makefile.i386 >> Log: >> Added -I/usrinclude to the tail end of the INCLUDES line. This hack >> will cause kernel compiles to work even if the src/includes directory >> doesn't exist but still do the 'Right Thing' and pull files from the >> source tree if it does exist. >> >> Reviewed by: Bruce Evans > >Humm.. now what happens when these unknowing fools update there >/usr/src/sys tree and don't update /usr/include to match. They are >going to get kernel compiles that fall over, and we are going to >get bug reports about strange things happening :-(. I concur. This change is, IMHO, BAD. I will AGAIN suggest that we go the opposite direction. I've thought a lot about this structure and have implemented much of it on my own system. There are more details that I have omitted here, but this is the jist of my proposal. Responses welcome ... The source tree should be fully self contained and ALL references MUST be relative to the root of that tree. Further, the "obj" links are removed from the source tree and replaced by a parallel object tree that grows from the root. This allows us ALL of the following: 1) The compilation of a system does not "trash" the current operating system. 2) The source tree (and much of the object tree) can be read-only. 3) One system can support multiple DIFFERENT versions of the tree at the same time. 4) "Make world" reduces to little more than a simple "make all" at the top of the tree. Redundant remakes of the libraries are eliminated. 5) Cross compilation for other platforms becomes possible. The COST? Each compilation environment MUST have a variable designating the ROOT of that environment. (Unless you want the default root "/usr") Now, the question.... Do we (as a community) want this? Who is in charge here? I'll be happy to get it working. But to do so, I'll need the support of ALL the comitters. Basically, I would have to "own" all the Makefiles, make, and the .mk files. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 05:31:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA05295 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 05:31:17 -0700 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA05120; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 05:28:30 -0700 Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.18.7]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA01791; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:23:10 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.9) id OAA26520; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:22:15 +0200 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:22:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199504031222.OAA26520@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: joerg@sax.de, Nate Williams , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, install-geeks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MBONE interfaces and snazzy install tools. In-Reply-To: <28288.796767941@freefall.cdrom.com> References: <199504011334.PAA17986@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> <28288.796767941@freefall.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >Anyway, I digress. This cpio_flp_1_perl_short - you don't say much about >how you made it or why it's "short" :-). FreeBSD-2.0-RELEASE cpio floppy 1) cpio_flp_1: normal crunch 2) cpio_flp_1_perl: add perl 3) cpio_flp_1_perl_short: add perl and substract sed, ed, grep, tar, ncftp 4) cpio_flp_1_perl_tiny: add perl and substract sed, ed, grep, tar, ncftp cat chmod cp date echo expr kill ln ls mkdir rcp rm rmdir sleep test basename chown getopt rlogin `Short' or `tiny' mean without some programs and not a coruptly perl version, perl is always the completely perl! uncompressed 1. 1114112 cpio_flp_1 2. 1380352 cpio_flp_1_perl (+266240 bytes) 3. 1052672 cpio_flp_1_perl_short (-61440 bytes) 4. 991232 cpio_flp_1_perl_tiny (-122880 bytes) compressed (gzip -9) 1. 556835 cpio_flp_1 2. 674193 cpio_flp_1_perl (+117358 bytes) 3. 518072 cpio_flp_1_perl_short (-38763 bytes) 4. 487494 cpio_flp_1_perl_tiny (-69341 bytes) *** cpio_flp_1.conf Mon Nov 21 05:14:32 1994 --- cpio_flp_1_perl.conf Sat Apr 1 14:35:53 1995 *************** *** 3,9 **** # first, we list the source dirs that our programs reside in. These are # searched in order listed to find the dir containing each program. ! srcdirs /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin srcdirs /usr/src/bin /usr/src/sbin /usr/src/usr.bin /usr/src/usr.sbin # second, we list all the programs we want to include in our crunched binary. --- 3,9 ---- # first, we list the source dirs that our programs reside in. These are # searched in order listed to find the dir containing each program. ! srcdirs /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin srcdirs /usr/src/bin /usr/src/sbin /usr/src/usr.bin /usr/src/usr.sbin # second, we list all the programs we want to include in our crunched binary. *************** *** 28,36 **** # /usr/bin stuff ! progs tar tip ftp ncftp rsh sed telnet rlogin ln tip cu # finally, we specify the libraries to link in with our binary libs -lcrypt -ltelnet -lutil -ll -ledit ! libs -lreadline -lcurses -ltermcap -lkvm --- 28,36 ---- # /usr/bin stuff ! progs tar tip ftp ncftp rsh sed telnet rlogin perl ln tip cu # finally, we specify the libraries to link in with our binary libs -lcrypt -ltelnet -lutil -ll -ledit ! libs -lreadline -lcurses -ltermcap -lkvm -lm *** cpio_flp_1.conf Mon Nov 21 05:14:32 1994 --- cpio_flp_1_perl_short.conf Sat Apr 1 14:47:19 1995 *************** *** 3,9 **** # first, we list the source dirs that our programs reside in. These are # searched in order listed to find the dir containing each program. ! srcdirs /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin srcdirs /usr/src/bin /usr/src/sbin /usr/src/usr.bin /usr/src/usr.sbin # second, we list all the programs we want to include in our crunched binary. --- 3,9 ---- # first, we list the source dirs that our programs reside in. These are # searched in order listed to find the dir containing each program. ! srcdirs /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin srcdirs /usr/src/bin /usr/src/sbin /usr/src/usr.bin /usr/src/usr.sbin # second, we list all the programs we want to include in our crunched binary. *************** *** 12,18 **** # /bin stuff ! progs cat chmod cksum cp date dd df echo ed expr grep hostname kill ln ls progs mkdir mt mv pwd rcp rm rmdir sh sleep slattach stty sync test ln test [ ln sh -sh # init invokes the shell this way --- 12,18 ---- # /bin stuff ! progs cat chmod cksum cp date dd df echo expr hostname kill ln ls progs mkdir mt mv pwd rcp rm rmdir sh sleep slattach stty sync test ln test [ ln sh -sh # init invokes the shell this way *************** *** 28,36 **** # /usr/bin stuff ! progs tar tip ftp ncftp rsh sed telnet rlogin ln tip cu # finally, we specify the libraries to link in with our binary libs -lcrypt -ltelnet -lutil -ll -ledit ! libs -lreadline -lcurses -ltermcap -lkvm --- 28,36 ---- # /usr/bin stuff ! progs tip ftp rsh telnet rlogin perl ln tip cu # finally, we specify the libraries to link in with our binary libs -lcrypt -ltelnet -lutil -ll -ledit ! libs -lreadline -lcurses -ltermcap -lkvm -lm *** cpio_flp_1.conf Mon Nov 21 05:14:32 1994 --- cpio_flp_1_perl_tiny.conf Sun Apr 2 18:22:56 1995 *************** *** 3,9 **** # first, we list the source dirs that our programs reside in. These are # searched in order listed to find the dir containing each program. ! srcdirs /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin srcdirs /usr/src/bin /usr/src/sbin /usr/src/usr.bin /usr/src/usr.sbin # second, we list all the programs we want to include in our crunched binary. --- 3,9 ---- # first, we list the source dirs that our programs reside in. These are # searched in order listed to find the dir containing each program. ! srcdirs /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin srcdirs /usr/src/bin /usr/src/sbin /usr/src/usr.bin /usr/src/usr.sbin # second, we list all the programs we want to include in our crunched binary. *************** *** 12,26 **** # /bin stuff ! progs cat chmod cksum cp date dd df echo ed expr grep hostname kill ln ls ! progs mkdir mt mv pwd rcp rm rmdir sh sleep slattach stty sync test ! ln test [ ln sh -sh # init invokes the shell this way # /sbin stuff ! progs badsect basename chown clri disklabel dmesg dump dmesg fdisk fsck ft ! progs getopt ifconfig init mknod mount mount_cd9660 mount_msdos mount_nfs progs newfs ping reboot restore route swapon umount ln dump rdump ln restore rrestore --- 12,25 ---- # /bin stuff ! progs cksum dd df hostname ! progs mt mv pwd sh slattach stty sync ln sh -sh # init invokes the shell this way # /sbin stuff ! progs badsect clri disklabel dmesg dump dmesg fdisk fsck ft ! progs ifconfig init mknod mount mount_cd9660 mount_msdos mount_nfs progs newfs ping reboot restore route swapon umount ln dump rdump ln restore rrestore *************** *** 28,36 **** # /usr/bin stuff ! progs tar tip ftp ncftp rsh sed telnet rlogin ln tip cu # finally, we specify the libraries to link in with our binary libs -lcrypt -ltelnet -lutil -ll -ledit ! libs -lreadline -lcurses -ltermcap -lkvm --- 27,35 ---- # /usr/bin stuff ! progs tip ftp rsh telnet perl ln tip cu # finally, we specify the libraries to link in with our binary libs -lcrypt -ltelnet -lutil -ll -ledit ! libs -lreadline -lcurses -ltermcap -lkvm -lm From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 06:04:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA05904 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 06:04:09 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA05898 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 06:04:07 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:03:48 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:03:49 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Experimental packages Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Do we have a mechanism for setting up "not ready for prime time ports" so that we can share the current state of the art? As an example, perl5 is not of release quality, but is useful for some other packages that rely on it. I am sure that someone has attempted to port it. I would like to be able to utilize the results of their efforts. 1) It you have worked on this, please send we your patches. 2) IMHO, we need a formal place in the distribution tree for this class of port. (Use at your own risk) ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 08:07:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA10779 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:07:00 -0700 Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA10772 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:06:51 -0700 Received: from [192.245.33.12] by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id LAA25876; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:36:31 -0400 X-Sender: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:08:43 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Subject: Re: Removeable media support Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) wrote: >As Brian Tao wrote: >> >> I found several old mailing lists messages pertaining to using a >> Syquest removeable drive and an Iomega floptical with FreeBSD. Are >> there any quirks to their operation? > >Oooh, are the flopticals really by Iomega? I've got hold of one (it's >only borrowed, i've attached it just out of interest), and it >identifies itself as ``Insite'' (which it is also labelled): > Insite makes the hardware, Iomega puts 'em in boxes. >(bt0:6:0): "INSITE I325VM *F 0387" is a type 0 removable SCSI 1 >sd1(bt0:6:0): Direct-Access >sd1(bt0:6:0): NOT READY asc:4,0 >sd1(bt0:6:0): Logical unit not ready, cause not reportable >sd1: could not get size >0MB (0 512 byte sectors) > >I could not get it to write anything. Neither on standard floppies >nor on flopticals. I've once trashed a floppy with it, it required >some 20 formatting cycles to get it alive again... I had one of these drives (still have one at a customer site). It required a kernel hack under 1.1 to make it work (I was using an Adaptech 154xB, not the C which has floptical/removable support) in the scsiconf file. Basically, I had to add in a routine or two into the scsi stuff to make it unlock the drive when it was attached. Awfully nasty hack/device. Never quite worked (lotsa timeouts). I did get it to read a 20 Mb disk once, though. I had to ask it a few times to mount the device (I think that the drive had to be spinning in order for the mount to work right). I think that the 1.1 patch came from Bob Wilcox. Bob? I might be able to resurrect it. I've not tried to fix it under 1.1.5.1. Also- the same system has a ~360 Mb (~180 per side) magneto-optical (MO) removable drive based on the Hewlett-Packard drive mechanism (repackaged under the product name Inspire by a company called Alphatronix). I actually booted off of it and ran the entire system from it. I never ejected the disk while the OS was running though. :) This drive should work off of a stock 1.1.5.1 system, no hacks. You probably have to enable SCSI BIOS support on your Adaptec if you want to boot off of it though, because it needs to be installed as a hard drive by the Adaptec BIOS in order to read the bootblocks. -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 09:09:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA11604 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:09:49 -0700 Received: from odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (root@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.8.102]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA11589 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:08:13 -0700 Received: (chet@localhost) by odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (8.6.10+cwru/CWRU-2.1-ins) id KAA11485; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:51:20 -0400 (from chet) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:42:16 -0400 From: Chet Ramey To: arnold@skeeve.atl.ga.us, composer@beyond.dreams.org, friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu, joshua5@cs.bu.edu, dob@inel.gov, mjo@msen.com, jason@servio.slc.com, timbo@ig.co.uk, trost@cse.ogi.edu, zoo@armadillo.com, lubkin@cs.rochester.edu, james@bigtex.cactus.org, dbrooks@ics.com, Greg.Onufer@Eng.Sun.COM, kre@munnari.oz.au, tmwalden@saturn.sys.acc.com, torvalds@cc.helsinki.fi, i.watson@lilly.com, glenn@mathcs.emory.edu, penningt@reason.psc.edu, devet@adv.iaehv.nl, grog@lemis.de, djm@eng.umd.edu, wieting@tweety.llnl.gov, geoffc@research.att.com, de5@ornl.gov, kayvan@satyr.sylvan.com, smd@uunet.ca, asjl@connect.com.au, mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz, david@cs.dal.ca, jwe@che.utexas.edu, Karl.Kleinpaste@GODIVA.NECTAR.CS.CMU.EDU, bammi@cadence.com, sanders@bsdi.com, tramey@boi.hp.com Subject: Please finish up reports on bash-1.14.4 beta Cc: sandro@elf.com, drich@sgi.com, carson@cs.columbia.edu, dbecker@legato.com, deven@asylum.sf.ca.us, remy@ccs.neu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, dtm@nsd.3com.com, kjetilho@ifi.uio.no, cam@iinet.com.au, wbader@EECS.Lehigh.Edu, hniksic@neumijko.srce.hr, mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov, jsh@canary.com, gjb@gba.oz.au, andreas@MPA-Garching.MPG.DE, pgf@foxharp.boston.ma.us, peterc@suite.sw.oz.au, brown@eff.org, bothner@cygnus.com, tudor@cs.pub.ro, fox@cac.washington.edu, hag@gnu.ai.mit.edu, root@candle.pha.pa.us, neal@ctd.comsat.com, chet@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu Reply-To: chet@po.cwru.edu Message-ID: <9504031442.AA11369.SM@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu> Read-Receipt-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I would like to release 1.14.4 soon, so please finish up and send off any reports of problems you've encountered. FYI: There have been several changes since the beta release: a better mechanism is now used to search the $PATH for ranlib, an off-by-one error in the mail checking code was corrected, and $MAILPATH is no longer set by default. Some cosmetic changes have also been made to the source code: signal has finally been completely replaced by set_signal_handler. -- ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer Chet Ramey, Case Western Reserve University Internet: chet@po.CWRU.Edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 09:15:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA11668 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:15:04 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA11654 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:14:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id SAA10033 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:05:37 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504031605.SAA10033@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: MBR corruption again To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:05:37 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2367 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Once again I experienced MBR corruption on a snap950210 system, with the entire disk dedicated to FreeBSD. It usually happens when the machine (which is configured as a Firewall) is up for a few days (it is *very* stable, I have to say), and what I see after I do a reboot is random data on the partition table. The parameters for the disk are: studenti%~# fdisk ******* Working on device /dev/rwd0d ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=1048 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl) Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1 parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=1048 heads=16 sectors/track=63 (1008 blks/cyl) Warning: BIOS sector numbering starts with sector 1 Information from DOS bootblock is: The data for partition 0 is: sysid 165,(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 0, size 1056384 (515 Meg), flag 80 beg: cyl 0/ sector 1/ head 0; end: cyl 1023/ sector 63/ head 15 The data for partition 1 is: The data for partition 2 is: The data for partition 3 is: studenti%~# disklabel wd0 # /dev/rwd0c: type: ST506 disk: ESDI/IDE label: MBR based label flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 63 tracks/cylinder: 16 sectors/cylinder: 1008 cylinders: 1048 rpm: 0 interleave: 0 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 8 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] a: 61440 0 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 60*) b: 131072 61440 swap # (Cyl. 60*- 190*) c: 1056384 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 1047) d: 1056384 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 1047) e: 863872 192512 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 190*- 1047*) Warning, revolutions/minute 0 super block size 0 Any ideas, other than upgrading the system (which is what I'll do anyways) ? Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 09:41:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA12326 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:41:56 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA12320 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:41:54 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06845; Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:35:14 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504031635.AA06845@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: 4 gig st15150n disk setups To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:35:13 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, bde@zeta.org.au In-Reply-To: <199504020257.SAA00332@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 1, 95 06:57:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>I was under the impression that these were atomic block offsets -- NOT > >>byte offsets. > > I'm not sure if I see the distinction you're trying to make. The problem is > that there are places in the kernel that convert from a block offset to a 32 > bit byte offset (and back again in some cases). This isn't intentional - it's > simply a matter of the wrong type being used in some cases. The obvious result > is a loss of precision. The end result is usually sign extension from the > 32bit signed type to the 64bit signed type and thus leads to negative block > offsets. OK -- that's all I needed. I was under the impression that the ONLY problems lay in sign extension and manifest constants; the loss of precision mans that there are two bad windows (one at both the 2G and the 1T mark instead of just one or the other). I wonder what the theoretical and measured savins are for indirecting blocks this way; I suppose the theory is that it saves a fault to get to the indirect block; yet at the same time it introduces indirection for what would normally be the direct blocks at the front of the file. It seems that the savings would depend on access patterns, and would complicate greatly files with early holes. Maybe we should consider if the change is worth the extra complication? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 09:52:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA12610 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:52:35 -0700 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA12604 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:52:34 -0700 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23466; Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:52:01 EDT Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:51:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Advice on new motherboard... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok, I bought a computer from Maximus Computers, and boy let me tell you was that a MISTAKE. I have to run Windows NT 3.5 on this machine as well, and my video drivers for NT crap out due to my BIOS. Well, I think Maximus has either gone out of business or is just ignoring me totally, so I have to buy a new motherboard. The two boards I am considering are: ASUS Dual-Pentium PCI/ISA with Neptune Chipset -- $351 ASUS Single-Pentium PCI with Trident Chipset -- $250 (near there) Which one of the above should I go with? I know that the new Trident chipset supports the 120mhz Pentium chip, and it is supposedly a LOT better chipset in regards to speed, but at the same time I'd like to be able to upgrade to 2 CPU's when FreeBSD gets SMP support. I currently have a 90mhz Pentium P54C that I can plug into either of the above boards, and 32mb of RAM, so do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Hoffman -- jeffh@cybernetics.net ------------------------------------- "A man facing the light looks not into sorrow, but to to the future...always." WWW: http://www.cybernetics.net/users/jeffh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PGP Public Key available on request. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 10:21:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA13088 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:21:49 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA13082 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:21:48 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA07097; Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:14:36 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504031714.AA07097@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:14:36 MDT Cc: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020609.AAA23597@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 2, 95 00:09:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's fragile because you could for instance have four file systems > > with blocks in the same 16M area of a disk. > > Um, why would you do that? Doesn't that sort of counter the whole reason > for running file systems over multiple disks? No, it doesn't. Perhaps you mean something different that simple spanning when you say "running file systems over multiple disks" than the rest of us mean... Consider: I have a disk. I am cheap. I fill up a partition on the disk. Being cheap, I back everything off, repartition, and restore. Eventually, all partitions on the disk are full. I break down and buy another drive. I add pieces of the drive to my full partitions: o 100M to /home o 8M to swap o 70M to /usr Now there are there partitions in the same 16M area waiting for a crash: o 4M at the end of /home o 8M of swap o 4M at the start (middle) of /usr Spanning is simply a tools for easing the administrative burden; note that the 4M allocation units are *not* anonymous -- in other words, it is difficult or impossible to implement transparent migration of data to ensure the data is (eventually) stored in contiguous allocation units; further, making sure none of your partitions (groups of allocation units) span a disk boundry is tantamount to solving the traveling salesman problem. It can be done, but the migration will be slow. Second scenario: This scenario actually applies to any non-static database with a tendency to grow. I have a 3G database file. Say it is a Sybase database containing the Human Genome Project data (I happen to have one of these, and it is close to 3G, and, indeed, uses Sybase; one wonders why I spent time getting Sybase to run unde IBCS2 no longer 8-)). I had a 2G drive in early 1994, since at the time the HGP database was ~1.8G. Now it has grown, but I am on a research grant, and thus on a limited bugdet. So I can't run out and buy a 4G drive as a replacement. So I buy a 2G drive and "add" it to my HGP database partition. The new database information can now be mirrored into my copy of the database using the standard HGP database mirroring. Unfortunately, spanning this way now means that if I lose one drive or the other, I now lose my entire databse. My risk is doubled; if the drives are otherwise identical, my MTBF is exactly halved (see the nice calculation of MTBF and its meaning that was recently posted to hackers). Simple spanning in both these scenarios is a risk/convenience trade off *only*. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 10:28:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA13456 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:28:57 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA13449 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:28:55 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA07149; Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:22:18 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504031722.AA07149@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: any interest? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:22:17 MDT Cc: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504020638.WAA00228@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 1, 95 10:38:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The usual way under SunOS is 'mkfile 4m /some/file'. This way > >no disk blocks are allocated until they are actually needed. > >Here is a clone implementation of mkfile, done by Robert Claeson > >(prc@erbe.se). > > Swapfiles should be pre-allocated to maximize contiguousness. Not to metion keeping the machines head from exploding when your disk is full and you need to swap more than you have swapped previously. Remember that with an overcommit architecture, failure to acquire needed swap means some process dies, and it's not necessarily the process that caused you to run out; it's pretty much any process (that's actually doing something) at random. There's also no guarantee that a swap file isn't "special"... that is, that the system will be able to recover gracefully from suddenly finding out that it has less swap available than it thought it had. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 10:34:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA13511 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:34:09 -0700 Received: from cs.pdx.edu (root@cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.183]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13505; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:34:08 -0700 Received: from sirius.cs.pdx.edu (root@sirius.cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.199]) by cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-12/23/94-P) with ESMTP id KAA20653; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:33:21 -0700 for Received: from localhost (jrb@localhost.cs.pdx.edu [127.0.0.1]) by sirius.cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-9/18/94-C) with ESMTP id KAA04660; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:32:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199504031732.KAA04660@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@netcom.com, jrb@cs.pdx.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 04:56:27 PDT." <199504031156.EAA02326@time.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 10:32:08 -0700 From: James Binkley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Your message <199504031156.EAA02326@time.cdrom.com>: I've got 2.0 cdrom and a set of mbone utilities, the usual gang sd/nv/vat/wb... and mbone locally. In general, I have found that vat doesn't work with anything... meaning sound cards that I have (gus/sb16). sd works. nv works (I tested it locally too via a local solaris system that can send video). wb seems to work but crashed once when I wasn't paying attention. I have had various experiences mostly bad with sound cards. I have a gus 3.74 (close, may be off). /dev/audio makes proper noises if you cat .au file to it. mike doesn't work for input. sb16 works with both .au output and mike. You have to raise the mike level with the drivers in 2.0 cdrom to get the mike up on the sb. I'm looking at the code for various sound/vat drivers that are kicking around but haven't got into it enough yet. A grad. student working with me is supposed to be porting nevot to freebsd. Right now we're playing with the linux mtalk app but haven't got very far yet. Jim Binkley jrb@cs.pdx.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 10:45:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA13677 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:45:39 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13669 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:45:36 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA02762; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:49:07 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:49:07 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504031749.LAA02762@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: any interest?" (Apr 3, 11:22am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), davidg@Root.COM Subject: Re: any interest? Cc: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Remember that with an overcommit architecture, failure to acquire > needed swap means some process dies, and it's not necessarily > the process that caused you to run out; it's pretty much any > process (that's actually doing something) at random. Not usually. Almost always the process that gets wiped out is the process which is growing constantly or one that was just started. Only in rare cases is it a long running system process you don't want wiped out. Before you go off and start arguing about it, this statement is made from *experience*, so I can say with some assurance that I believe it to be true no matter what you try to say otherwise. Experience never lies. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 11:30:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14768 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:30:20 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14762 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:30:19 -0700 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA03743; Mon, 3 Apr 95 14:29:30 -0400 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA29976; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:29:29 -0400 Message-Id: <9504031829.AA29976@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: any interest? Organization: X Consortium Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 14:29:29 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >The usual way under SunOS is 'mkfile 4m /some/file'. This way > >no disk blocks are allocated until they are actually needed. > >Here is a clone implementation of mkfile, done by Robert Claeson > >(prc@erbe.se). > > Swapfiles should be pre-allocated to maximize contiguousness. I don't agree that disk blocks aren't allocated until needed. Here's an excerpt from the man page: MKFILE(8) MAINTENANCE COMMANDS MKFILE(8) NAME mkfile - create a file SYNOPSIS mkfile [ -nv ] size[k|b|m] filename ... DESCRIPTION mkfile creates one or more files that are suitable for use as NFS-mounted swap areas, or as local swap areas. The sticky bit is set, and the file is padded with zeroes by default. The default size is in bytes, but it can be flagged as kilobytes, blocks, or megabytes, with the k, b, or m suffixes, respectively. OPTIONS -n Create an empty filename. The size is noted, but disk blocks aren't allocated until data is written to them. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 11:42:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15254 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:42:31 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15232; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:42:22 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id NAA11754; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:41:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:41:33 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504031841.NAA11754@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Cc: hasty@netcom.com Content-Length: 1962 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 1. Crank up sound card (SB16), make sure it at least works from the /dev/audio > viewpoint. Don't know of SB16 will *work*, but at least I know I can > deal with audio on a fairly generic level. > > 2. Go on hunting expedition to ftp.ee.lbl.gov and grab wb, sd, vat and nv. > > 3. Bring up sd.. Nothing... Wait.. Ok, here they come! The House and > Senate are both yacking away, there's a couple of general meetings, > Hmmmm. Ah! World Radio something - and it's transmitting! > > 4. Click on World Radio something.. Up comes VAT. Hmmmmm. A bunch of > people down the left hand side.. Listening? Hmmm. I can select them, > there's a radio channel "broadcasting" since I can click shift-left and > see the packets fly in. But nothing on the speaker! No audio! Foo! I think only the GUS card (with Hasty patches) will give you vat output. I am afraid that these changes will not work will with 2.0-0322-SNAP sound file changes, but I have not dug into that to check. > 5. Click on lecture at University of Illinois.. Up comes nv. Information > about grabbers, video transmit bandwidth, blah blah.. No pictures! No > sound! check the IETF conferences, they had video this morning. > 6. Play with about 5 other things, briefly joining a shared whiteboard at > Cisco (only member - went away again), basically a wash-out. Nothing feeps, > flashes or jumps out of my computer except the noise of me softly clicking > on the mouse. > the cisco group has always been idle (at least everytime I popped it open. now we have to write video drivers so we can electronically moon each other. I still have not heard back from Matrox about what kind of information they are willing to provide for drivers. we have loaner intel capture boards (for a DOS conferencing tool) maybe I should start bugging them. we have all the pieces for a FreeBSD "bird of a feather" meetings. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 11:49:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15664 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:49:47 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15656 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:49:45 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA07598; Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:42:30 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504031842.AA07598@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:42:29 MDT Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504021421.AA13168@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> from "Sean Kelly" at Apr 2, 95 08:21:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What does this involve? Maintaining lpd? Providing if filters? > Writing sample printcap entries? Docs? All of the above? I would think the biggest problem would be configuration and management tools. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 11:50:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15696 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:50:04 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15654 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:49:44 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11685; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:21:12 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id UAA22294 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:21:07 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA27434 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:33:55 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504031733.TAA27434@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Removeable media support To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:33:55 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Apr 3, 95 02:38:21 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 711 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Brian Tao wrote: > > > (bt0:6:0): "INSITE I325VM *F 0387" is a type 0 removable SCSI 1 > > This is the model that I have. A-ha. Seems to be a Japanese manufacturer. > > sd1(bt0:6:0): Logical unit not ready, cause not reportable > > sd1: could not get size > > 0MB (0 512 byte sectors) > This is booting with a formatted floptical in place? No, but i think i've also tried this, to no avail. > No real need to have a floptical working, but I thought it would > be nice to have around. Same for me. They are too expensive for real work. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 11:51:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15811 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:51:34 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15801 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:51:33 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA07543; Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:38:16 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504031838.AA07543@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:38:15 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504021216.OAA01253@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 2, 95 02:16:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Before Terry jumps in: i know that this is not the generic solution. > The console drivers should reinitialize the system's console via a > vm86() call to the video BIOS -- but i don't see this solution around > the corner within the next weeks. Too late. ;-). No, the generic soloution is to not allow the X server direct access to the mode registers, and instead force it to go through a kernel driver. That way, when you get a panic, the kernel can put the mode into something reasonable for the console to be usable without having to send a !@#$%! message to the X server asking it to "please put the console back so I can use it". A useless message when the kernel debugger knows damn well that it is not going to allow the X server a chance to run to do what it was asked anyway, since it could have been the cause of the panic. The problem comes from two drivers setting video modes with non intersecting mode sets for each driver, so no one driver can ever "know" what mode the card is in and restore it to a "sane" mode from that mode. It's vaguely like drawing with a Calcomp plotter, which only has the ability to "goto 0,0" or to "goto relative x,y from here"; you have to keep state about where you are at to get to where you want to be. Making VM86() calls in the BIOS is a way to set video modes on otherwise undocumented hardware... but it is *dangerous*. Most "modern" video cards think it is more important that they not look bad than your system function correctly, and they will disable *all* interrupts while in an INT 10 call rather than looking slow on benchmarks and waiting for the vertical blanking interval to do their jobs. That means making the call could easily lose you important network and/or disk and/or serial traffic. Very bad. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 13:10:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA17756 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:10:32 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA17749 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:10:29 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA04839; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:10:00 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504031910.MAA04839@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Advice on new motherboard... To: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jeff" at Apr 3, 95 12:51:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1763 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Ok, I bought a computer from Maximus Computers, and boy let me tell you > was that a MISTAKE. I have to run Windows NT 3.5 on this machine as > well, and my video drivers for NT crap out due to my BIOS. Well, I think > Maximus has either gone out of business or is just ignoring me totally, > so I have to buy a new motherboard. > > The two boards I am considering are: > > ASUS Dual-Pentium PCI/ISA with Neptune Chipset -- $351 > ASUS Single-Pentium PCI with Trident Chipset -- $250 (near there) ^Triton > > Which one of the above should I go with? I know that the new Trident > chipset supports the 120mhz Pentium chip, and it is supposedly a LOT > better chipset in regards to speed, but at the same time I'd like to be > able to upgrade to 2 CPU's when FreeBSD gets SMP support. > > I currently have a 90mhz Pentium P54C that I can plug into either of the > above boards, and 32mb of RAM, so do you guys have any suggestions? I currently own a the PCI/I-P54NP4D (dual Pentium PCI/ISA) and a fairly happy with it. I have also tested the PCI/I-P54TP4 (Triton chipset) board and it is faster than the Neptune based boards, especially with respect to memory write speeds. Also Intel finally admitted that the Neptune chip set will not correctly run more than 2 PCI bus masters, so that may effect your desision. Both boards are good boards to have, it depends on how bad you want to go SMP when SMP support comes out. You can have SMP now under NT 3.5 with the PCI/I-P54NP4 if you go that route. You have found some very good prices by the way. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 13:27:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18407 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:27:58 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA18369 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:27:43 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA13642; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:23:34 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id WAA22956 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:23:33 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00745 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:12:37 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504032012.WAA00745@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:12:36 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9504031838.AA07543@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 3, 95 12:38:15 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1240 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > Before Terry jumps in: i know that this is not the generic solution. > > The console drivers should reinitialize the system's console via a > > vm86() call to the video BIOS -- but i don't see this solution around > > the corner within the next weeks. > > Too late. ;-). > > No, the generic soloution is to not allow the X server direct access > to the mode registers, and instead force it to go through a kernel > driver. Of course, but it's even harder to make than the vm86() story. In case of a panic(), almost everything it's lost, so i don't really care if the X server shuts down nicely. > Making VM86() calls in the BIOS is a way to set video modes on > otherwise undocumented hardware... but it is *dangerous*. Most > "modern" video cards ..., and they will disable > *all* interrupts while in an INT 10 call rather than looking slow > on benchmarks and waiting for the vertical blanking interval to > do their jobs. ... I didn't think of that. Perhaps vm86() should always run non- privileged (except of the IOPL), and the GP fault being ignored? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 13:44:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18976 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:44:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA18965; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:44:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wolfram Schneider cc: joerg@sax.de, Nate Williams , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, install-geeks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MBONE interfaces and snazzy install tools. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 14:22:15 +0200." <199504031222.OAA26520@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 13:44:09 -0700 Message-ID: <18963.796941849@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 3) cpio_flp_1_perl_short: add perl and > substract sed, ed, grep, tar, ncftp > 4) cpio_flp_1_perl_tiny: add perl and > substract sed, ed, grep, tar, ncftp > cat chmod cp date echo expr kill ln ls mkdir > rcp rm rmdir sleep test basename chown getopt > rlogin Ah. But you still don't show us how to replace all these with perl! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 13:44:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18987 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:44:42 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA18981 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:44:40 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08476; Mon, 3 Apr 95 14:33:25 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504032033.AA08476@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 14:33:25 MDT Cc: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 2, 95 11:26:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > This will work with IBM's JFS (obviously) or with a log structured > > > file system, but precious little else. UFS is particularly badly > > > suited to doing this. If you do what SPRITE does and shove all > > I beg to disagreee, but the UFS can easily be extended.. > if you have it over a LVM that can give you extra space, then you can > add additional cylinder groups without too much pain.... > (I believe OSF1 may have this.. I'll have to check my sources) I recently pointed this out in a news posting on porting the NFS v3 code to BSD 4.3 (which someone wanted), but... A Logical Volume Manager requires a more strict adherence to stackability requirements, and the promiscuous knowledge of the underlying VM system in the current UFS means that it's not strictly stackable. Even if you fixed this and the FS had no intrinsic knowledge of underlying storage interfaces, each cylinder group doesn't get it's own superblock, so you would be limited to a log boundry for the superblocks themselves before they could (potentially) collide with an already allocated block. You could relocate colliding blocks, but with clustering, if the block was the first in a cluster, it could get, well, complicated. 8-(. It is possible with a fairly long duration fsck type operation, and I suppose that you could argue it predicated on that. It still would not solve the multiple points of failure arguments, however. Note that a tool of this complexity is what would be required currently to up the number of inodes on a UFS file system without requiring a backup/mkfs/restore. Because of this being the only thing required for such a tool, it is relatively trivial compared to changing a file system size. I have yet to see such a tool outside of single use code in an academic environment. Going further down this track, I could see where it could be minorly useful for a news spool, where you really could care less about corruption destroying the current contents, or for a system where you religiously backed up your data. I guess the main point I had is that it would be a kludge without real file system changes at the same time. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 13:52:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19172 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:52:21 -0700 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu (mailbox.syr.EDU [128.230.1.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19166 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:52:18 -0700 Received: from forbin.syr.edu by mailbox.syr.edu (8.6.9/SUM-V8-1.0) id QAA02368; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:51:53 -0400 Received: by forbin.syr.edu (5.x/Spike-2.0) id AA10740; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:51:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:51:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@forbin.syr.edu To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Building a new kernel on 950322 SNAP Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Am I the only one having difficulty building a new kernel on 950322 SNAP? I've tried a number of different approaches, but I've never become familiar with build process (and I'm hoping I still won't need to :). -Chris Example: myname# make depend cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DGENERIC -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI386_CPU -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 -DTIMEZONE=0 -DDST=0 -DMAXUSERS=10 -UKERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c In file included from ../../i386/i386/genassym.c:40: ../../../include/stdio.h:70: parse error before `fpos_t' ../../../include/stdio.h:70: warning: data definition has no type or storage class ../../../include/stdio.h:130: parse error before `fpos_t' ../../../include/stdio.h:130: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union ../../../include/stdio.h:147: parse error before `_offset' ../../../include/stdio.h:147: warning: data definition has no type or storage class ../../../include/stdio.h:148: warning: data definition has no type or storage class ../../../include/stdio.h:151: parse error before `__sF' ../../../include/stdio.h:151: warning: data definition has no type or storage class .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:03:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19402 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:03:38 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19395; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:03:27 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03565; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:57:34 GMT Message-Id: <199504031257.MAA03565@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@netcom.com Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 04:56:27 MST." <199504031156.EAA02326@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 12:57:32 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > Now I just need to figure out how to use it! ;-) > > Some others may find my progress, or lack thereof, enlightening: > > 1. Crank up sound card (SB16), make sure it at least works from the /dev/aud io > viewpoint. Don't know of SB16 will *work*, but at least I know I can > deal with audio on a fairly generic level. Get a GUS or a PAS16 if you want vat to work.... If you get a GUS , go to ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty and get sys-vat.tar.gz and vat.summary. Now the patches for the GUS and VAT are for FreeBSD-2.0 and you will have to hack around with the files.i386 to get a kernel to build. In essence, replaces all the ../sound references in files.i386 with the sound files on the sys-vat files.i386. So far, only one person has not being able to get it to work or at least never got back to me if got vat working . > 6. Play with about 5 other things, briefly joining a shared whiteboard at > Cisco (only member - went away again), basically a wash-out. Nothing fee ps, > flashes or jumps out of my computer except the noise of me softly clickin g > on the mouse. Try to get another FreeBSD box and see if you can get the ip multicast apps to talk to each other. For instance, nv has an X capture mode which allows you to send portions of your X screen out. > What's the story with this stuff? Have I got the wrong hardware? Is it > a send-only broadcast network? :-) What do most folks do with these cute > little InterViews based toys? I think by now most of them are tcl/tk based :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:11:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19534 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:11:53 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA19525 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:11:49 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA28437 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:53:11 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA15785; 3 Apr 95 15:45:57 CDT (Mon) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA15782; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:45:56 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504032045.PAA15782@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:45:55 -0500 (CDT) Cc: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504031714.AA07097@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 3, 95 11:14:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1397 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have a disk. > I am cheap. > I fill up a partition on the disk. > Being cheap, I back everything off, repartition, and restore. > Eventually, all partitions on the disk are full. > I break down and buy another drive. > I add pieces of the drive to my full partitions: > o 100M to /home > o 8M to swap > o 70M to /usr You only have two drives. Why would you span? I wouldn't. I'd do this: Make a new, bigger /home on the new drive. Move home over. Use the old /home to increase the size of /usr. Add a new swap partition. Now you have the same sized partitions as you did with striping, without the risks. The only reason I can see for having multiple partitions on the same striped drives is stupidity. Your scenario above is an example. > Spanning is simply a tools for easing the administrative burden; Sounds like you added to it. You had to set up the drives spanned, and do a tape restore of every file system. I only had to do a tape restore of /usr... I copied /home right over. > Now it has grown, but I am on a research grant, and thus on a limited > bugdet. > So I can't run out and buy a 4G drive as a replacement. > So I buy a 2G drive and "add" it to my HGP database partition. That's fine. But now you're not running multiple partitions over the two drives. If possible, what I'd do would be to use the 2GB for the file systems and give the database the whole 3GB one. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:35:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19934 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:35:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA19927; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:35:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Tinguely cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org, hasty@netcom.com Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 13:41:33 CDT." <199504031841.NAA11754@plains.nodak.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 14:35:21 -0700 Message-ID: <19926.796944921@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think only the GUS card (with Hasty patches) will give you vat output. > I am afraid that these changes will not work will with 2.0-0322-SNAP sound > file changes, but I have not dug into that to check. I'd be really happy if we could start nailing this down! I'm sure I'm not the only FreeBSD user who's going to have these questions! ;-) We pay lip service to how much nicer a network solution than Linux we are, but unless we can really shine in the edge-of-the-envelope areas like this (and things like T/TCP are a good start) then it's a rather difficult point to easily make. > check the IETF conferences, they had video this morning. I just got the video from one of the Univ. of Illinois lectures, actually! The other channels I was looking at before were obviously simply not broadcasting. I also looked into the IETF stuff. Much lower bandwidth than the Illinois stuff, but nonetheless watchable. This is slick stuff! You sort of need a 300K/sec or better pipe to the Internet to use it, but... > now we have to write video drivers so we can electronically moon each other. > I still have not heard back from Matrox about what kind of information they > are willing to provide for drivers. we have loaner intel capture boards > (for a DOS conferencing tool) maybe I should start bugging them. > > we have all the pieces for a FreeBSD "bird of a feather" meetings. I'm game! I'm in! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:49:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20184 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:49:50 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20155 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:47:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA10110; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:56:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199504030556.HAA10110@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Christoph Kukulies cc: john@starfire.mn.org (John Lind), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Subject: Re: BRL CAD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 18:43:30 +0100." <199503251743.SAA22460@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 07:56:51 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm still asking myself > what is so superior to 'cake' that it cannot be done by 'make'. Perhaps just historic that they still use it; before bmake & gmake & imake, the basic unix make was _basic_; way back when (perhaps 7 or 10 years?) I remember thinking cake sounded really nice, much time having passed, I don't know comparisons now, but it could be that the BRL-CAD folk thought so too once, & then it just stayed ? Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:49:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20192 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:49:57 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA20186 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:49:55 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rvu0K-00030iC; Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:49 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: Removeable media support To: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:49:48 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Mark J. Taylor" at Apr 3, 95 10:08:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 912 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark J. Taylor wrote: > [ floptical problem desc deleted ] > > I had one of these drives (still have one at a customer site). It required > a kernel hack under 1.1 to make it work (I was using an Adaptech 154xB, not > the C which has floptical/removable support) in the scsiconf file. > Basically, I had to add in a routine or two into the scsi stuff to make it > unlock the drive when it was attached. > > Awfully nasty hack/device. Never quite worked (lotsa timeouts). I did get > it to read a 20 Mb disk once, though. I had to ask it a few times to mount > the device (I think that the drive had to be spinning in order for the > mount to work right). I think that the 1.1 patch came from Bob Wilcox. > Bob? Nope, wasn't me. I had and used a Syquest removable disk for awhile, but have never owned or used a floptical. -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:51:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20227 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:51:09 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20112 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:44:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03687; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:52:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199504031852.UAA03687@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers' list) Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 08:38:05 +0200." <24390.796804685@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 20:52:11 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > it really > would be NIFTY if somebody who actually OWNED A PRINTER (this does not > include me) and was kind of DETAIL MINDED actually got mad and angry > enough about the poor printer support and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Don't worry Jordan, I do have a printer, & I can assure you ghostscript & ghostview work , I use them every day with groff & my wysiwyg patches to vi & ghostview to make a nice(ish) doc editing thing, & print to hp laser often, & can dicert the .ps files to flexfax, so all is not bad :-) true I dont use all those other tools, but same as anything else, he who needs it will use it & fix it, (& if they dont fix it - so what - we're not collecting 2000 DM per OS CD like some UX vendors :-) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:52:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20289 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:52:28 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20282; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:52:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04047; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:46:16 GMT Message-Id: <199504031346.NAA04047@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Mark Tinguely , hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@FreeBSD.org, hasty@netcom.com Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 14:35:21 MST." <19926.796944921@freefall.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 13:46:14 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > I think only the GUS card (with Hasty patches) will give you vat output. > > I am afraid that these changes will not work will with 2.0-0322-SNAP sound > > file changes, but I have not dug into that to check. > > I'd be really happy if we could start nailing this down! I'm sure I'm > not the only FreeBSD user who's going to have these questions! ;-) Well, here is the scoop on VAT: o vat does not work with the sound driver in sys-current. o my patches to make vat work are for FreeBSD-2.0. I may upgrade the patches soon so that people running FreeBSD-current can easily drop in the patches and have vat up and running. o James Lowe promised to re-vamp the vat driver so I hope that he does this with sys-current. o Me, I have been waiting for the sound driver V30 to fully merge in the old sound driver changes to make vat work. When I am done with V30, I will submit my patches to Hannu so that we don't go thru this mess again. About a month ago I submitted the bi-directional dma stuff for the GUS to Hannu however he was too busy wrapping the sound driver V30 release. Last but not least I just got the sound driver V30 from Hannu a few days ago. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- About the video stuff, the hardware is just reaching the market however I feel that before the year's end we will have a cool video offering. So far my favorite video card is Jazz Jakarta it can do ntsc output, input , and mpeg playback. The card comes in VLB or PCI and supports 24bit colors :) When Jazz Multimedia makes their SDK available in another month or so I will be happy to let the group know ... Hope this helps, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:53:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20334 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:53:26 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20204; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:50:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA15269; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:41:49 +0200 Message-Id: <199504021741.TAA15269@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Joe Greco , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 25 Mar 1995 01:13:54 +0100." <25507.796090434@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 19:41:48 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk When considering whether net ports should be tossed into src/ , don't forget to consider the maintenance issues, ports/ seems to be pretty well constructed to absorb new releases, Re-bmaking everything for each new release of a currently-in-ports utility might get to be quite a headache, & might even be sufficiently off putting, that it doesnt in future get done as often as it might if stayed in ports ? Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:57:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20472 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:57:40 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20335 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:53:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08732; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:53:38 +0200 Message-Id: <199504021253.OAA08732@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Aled Morris cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DEC Alpha Multia In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:52:42 +0100." Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 14:53:37 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ... Multia .... > Perhaps the BSD consortium could fund a development machine if we had a > volunteer to do the port? IF ... IF ... As there is no BSD consortium, you'd be better finding the right person within the manufacturer firm, & suggesting they subsidise a development machine. Making the suggestion here seems pointless. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:57:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20485 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:57:50 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20328 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:53:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA26505; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:36:08 +0200 Message-Id: <199504022136.XAA26505@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: Christoph Kukulies , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Mosaic with Lesstif In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Mar 1995 13:02:25 +0200." <9503261102.AA04671@fedora.x.org> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 23:36:08 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ftp.heart.barnard.za > Got an IP address? InterNIC doesn't know about it. > Off hand I'd say that someone's pulling your leg. I'm reading this on April 1st, which is maybe why I second the suspicion of a leg well pulled, as Christian Barnard was the South African surgeon who did the 1st succesfull human heart transplant, .... Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:57:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20497 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:57:54 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA20490 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:57:51 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <28747-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 07:57:15 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id TAA00312; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:56:51 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id JAA28302; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:54:21 GMT Message-Id: <199504030954.JAA28302@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6beta 3/23/95 To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Newer versions of ProAudio sound cards - any experience? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 01:32:56 GMT." <199504030133.BAA01389@star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 19:54:19 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Get a GUS it already supports 3D under DOS land. > For instance, DOOM and Descent both support 3D sound. > > Amancio > Yeah, well the problem is that my SCSI controller blew up, and I'm also hunting for a nice 16bit stereo full duplex card, at a relatively cheap price that this mortgage encumbered person can handle. Educating a wife & child is also an expensive business, which is one of the reasons why I'm still running on a 25MHz 386sx. Stephen (Grumbles 'r' Us) Hocking I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 14:59:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20604 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:59:26 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20142; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:46:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA27382; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:58:26 +0200 Message-Id: <199504022158.XAA27382@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Christoph Kukulies , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Mar 1995 13:21:04 +0200." <12499.796216864@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 23:58:23 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > but since we'll be governed by US laws ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You may choose to be be governed by US Laws, but do NOT include me in your choice ! USA law is of mere national significance to USA residents, & of no utility to the rest of us, it provides no legal protection for active FreeBSD individuals resident outside the USA. Example: Making an Incorporation in the USA will not protect active FreeBSD individuals here in Germany, just as my Limited Company in England does not really protect my professional activities for the company here in Germany. (that being a simplified summary) FreeBSD USA Inc. appears yet another imperialistic assumption that is acceptable to dump a USA body on the world, exporting USA law to dominate a global endeavour :-( This usurps the rights, authority etc of the global FreeBSD community, Let's at least test this with a Formal Ballot first. Pre revolutionary Bostonians threw the English Tea in Boston harbour, chanting `No Taxation Without Representation" Today, I suggest: "No Legislation Without Representation" We non Americans can't vote for the US government, so I do Not accept the exporting of USA laws beyond USA national boundaries. I bet no USA based FreeBSD Inc. promoter bothered to enquire if we can operate as some kind of multi national, perhaps as some sub sub division of the United Nations, underneath CCITT, or ISO or some such ? No one asked for info on how to set up a company elsewhere than the USA, (I know how to for England & Wales, I bet others know for their countries). Countries with restrictive technology policies are poor choices to be the FreeBSD legal base. Thus we should exclude USA, France, Australia ('cos of encryption laws etc), & no Canada 'cos allied to US embargo policy. The USA disrupts software projects that involve encryption, & has done so for over 10 years. The USA government has disrupted FreeBSD with its laws. The USA is constantly waging trade war rhetoric with it's partner nations, & is now engaging vigorously in extending the enforcement of patent copyright & other intellectual property right restrictions to progress. While the USA continues to indulge in such disruptive antisocial action, it is morally unfit to be the legal base for our `Free' endeavour. By all means use a country which uses the language we mail in, but not the USA, how about South Africa ? or New Zealand or Eire (Southern Ireland) or ... ? Please do the job properly, if at all: either form FreeBSD as an international organisation, or forget it ! I suggest you phone the East USA coast, talk to some people at the United Nations, then get us under the CCITT or ISO or ... in some form, perhaps listed as a `research in progress group', (thus avoiding the need for us to worry about standards) Just Please do not try to impose this FreeBSD USA Inc. on anyone outside the USA, we don't need Imperialism :-( PS CCITT is ~ Committe' Consultativ International Telecommunications et Telegraphie (an international body, part of the UN I believe, under the ITU (International Telegraphy Union) as intermediary, Address: international telecom union,place de nations, CH-1211,Geneva 20,switzerland; Tel:+41 22 99 51 11 Telex (from Germany):005 421 000 uit ch Julian Stacey a British citizen resident in Germany. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:02:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20738 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:02:52 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20362 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:54:37 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA27725; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 00:11:09 +0200 Message-Id: <199504022211.AAA27725@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Jeff cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Paul Richards , Amancio Hasty , fbsd@clem.systemsix.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 26 Mar 1995 18:25:42 +0200." Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 00:11:08 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In our install procedure, we make Netscape a package and have it go out and ftp it off the net. :-) Many machines have no net, we need to be able to pre-config & build legal systems ready for use, before dumb end users try to drive them, so I guess we should install something we Are allowed to install, chimera maybe ? Then let the user elect to install his personal (encumbered) preference of Netscape/Mosaic/whatever later, when/if he wants to. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:04:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20761 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:04:44 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20487 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:57:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08713; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:45:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199504021245.OAA08713@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SMP work In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 24 Mar 1995 02:11:32 +0100." <199503240111.RAA06794@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 14:45:36 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > string ^[%-12345X HP PJL (printer job language) comman My HP-PCL5 book says: ESC % # B 0 use previous HP-GL/2 pen position 1 use current PCL cursor position for HP-GL/2 per position I suspect you should be using the name HP-PCL or HP-GL/2, not PJL. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:04:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20775 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:04:55 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA20767 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:04:53 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08980; Mon, 3 Apr 95 15:58:05 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504032158.AA08980@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: any interest? To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 15:58:05 MDT Cc: davidg@Root.COM, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504031749.LAA02762@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 3, 95 11:49:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Remember that with an overcommit architecture, failure to acquire > > needed swap means some process dies, and it's not necessarily > > the process that caused you to run out; it's pretty much any > > process (that's actually doing something) at random. > > Not usually. Almost always the process that gets wiped out is the > process which is growing constantly or one that was just started. Only > in rare cases is it a long running system process you don't want wiped > out. > > Before you go off and start arguing about it, this statement is made > from *experience*, so I can say with some assurance that I believe it to > be true no matter what you try to say otherwise. Experience never lies. I'd argue that killing "the process which is growing constantly" (I don't happen to keep that type of thing around -- policy of mine) is pretty much more random than killing the process that was just started and ate the last of the swap. >From *experience* on AIX (and on a FreeBSD system where processes which grow constantly are administratively prohibited from running 8-)), the process that gets killed is either the process you are trying to start being killed immediately because it could not get sufficient data space, OR *any* poor process that triggers a copy-on-write fault (any fork() but delayed/no exec() process could do this without "growing constantly"). Typically, on AIX, it's sub-shells for shell scripts, and (for me) the "ps" command as I try and find processes with large images to murder manually before something I care about that uses forks to do its thing (like AMD or inetd) dies. Without a large statistical set to predict by, this is more or less the same thing as "random". Reminds me of the Berkely backgammon that cheated because in the limit incredible skill and incredible luck are functionally equivalent, so the programmer opted for writing in "incredible luck" because it was the less difficult task... just like my use of "random" is less difficult than specifying exactly what will be killed when for a particular configuration. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:05:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20798 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:05:39 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA20473 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:57:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA08607; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 14:23:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199504021223.OAA08607@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: John Lind cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: FYI: flexfax port In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 23 Mar 1995 18:14:43 +0100." <199503231714.LAA06141@starfire.mn.org> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 14:23:03 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I am currently grabbing ftp://sgi.com/sgi/fax/source/hylafax-v3.0beta10-tar.gz > to see where that leads me. It leads to hylafax-v3.0beta112 which compiles with no changes whatsoever on my `current' I have installed, I have not yet tested. dunno what your beta10 is, sounds very old compared with beta112 though ! Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:08:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20863 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:08:40 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA20855 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:08:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA07960; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:07:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199504032207.PAA07960@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Howard Stacey cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SMP work In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 14:45:36 +0200." <199504021245.OAA08713@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 15:07:53 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> string ^[%-12345X HP PJL (printer job language) comman > >My HP-PCL5 book says: > ESC % # B 0 use previous HP-GL/2 pen position > 1 use current PCL cursor position for HP-GL/2 per posit >ion > >I suspect you should be using the name HP-PCL or HP-GL/2, not PJL. Isn't the format you list different than the string I listed above? PJL is a different thing than either PCL or HP-GL/2. ^[%-12345X is the escape sequence to start a PJL transaction. > >Julian S > -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:14:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA20961 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:14:38 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA20954 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:14:36 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09041; Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:08:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504032208.AA09041@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Advice on new motherboard... To: jeffh@Cybernetics.NET (Jeff) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:07:59 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jeff" at Apr 3, 95 12:51:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The two boards I am considering are: > > ASUS Dual-Pentium PCI/ISA with Neptune Chipset -- $351 > ASUS Single-Pentium PCI with Trident Chipset -- $250 (near there) ^^^^^^^ If you don't care about flavor, you should definitely go with the sugarless chipset. 8-). The dual pentium should work under NT as well, since it supposedly supports SMP out of the box. The dual machine will work in single processor mode with or without the extra chip in place for FreeBSD (several people have noted running in this configuration before). I believe the Triton won't give you that much better performance without the new cache RAM, which as far as I know isn't widely available. If you've got a source for EDRAM, it'd probably be fun to play with, though. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:34:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21421 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:34:34 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21415 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:34:32 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09247; Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:22:26 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504032222.AA09247@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:22:26 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504032012.WAA00745@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 3, 95 10:12:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, the generic soloution is to not allow the X server direct access > > to the mode registers, and instead force it to go through a kernel > > driver. > > Of course, but it's even harder to make than the vm86() story. In > case of a panic(), almost everything it's lost, so i don't really care > if the X server shuts down nicely. Sorry, but that's not an argument; the point is not to shut down the X server at all, but to hide the video mode switching in code that is available to the kernel at all times, even after panic. The argument that the code might be lost in that case is the same as the argument that the kernel debugger might be lost -- if kernel text gets overwritten, there's a bigger problem than a post-facto use of a debugger could find anyway. I think I could argue against the VM86() story from another angle as well; a VM86() call to video BIOS is no more likely to be able to restore from a wierd video mode than a BIOS call would be able to reset 16550 serial ports out of FIFO mode. In other words, the BIOS might not know how to reset the modes, or if it does, it might not know how to reset everything that needs to be reset if the mode wasn't established using the BIOS in the first place. It's a can of works that ends up substituting a BIOS that doesn't know about the hardware settings effected by the server for a console driver that didn't know about the hardware settings effected by the server -- not a win. [ ... INT 10 video BIOS disabling of interrupts ... ] > I didn't think of that. Perhaps vm86() should always run non- > privileged (except of the IOPL), and the GP fault being ignored? I don't think you could do that and keep compatability. 8-(. The BIOS out to be there via VM86() just so there is always a way to do something, but it ought to be the second choice. Taking a couple of interrupt hits on a single user system (ie: nobody dialed in on the serial port or whatever) to get a working X on the console is one thing, but depending on no one being there in all cases would probably be a mistake. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:40:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21595 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:40:43 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21589 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:40:40 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09336; Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:33:29 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504032233.AA09336@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:33:29 MDT Cc: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504032045.PAA15782@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 3, 95 03:45:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You only have two drives. Why would you span? I wouldn't. I'd do this: > > Make a new, bigger /home on the new drive. > Move home over. Use the old /home to increase the size of /usr. > Add a new swap partition. > Now you have the same sized partitions as you did with striping, without > the risks. > > The only reason I can see for having multiple partitions on the same striped > drives is stupidity. Your scenario above is an example. I agree; that's my argument, too. The risks are higher is what I was positing. > > Spanning is simply a tools for easing the administrative burden; > > Sounds like you added to it. You had to set up the drives spanned, and do > a tape restore of every file system. I only had to do a tape restore of > /usr... I copied /home right over. I was lazy, and I got away without the copy/restore/slice_move. > > Now it has grown, but I am on a research grant, and thus on a limited > > bugdet. > > So I can't run out and buy a 4G drive as a replacement. > > So I buy a 2G drive and "add" it to my HGP database partition. > > That's fine. But now you're not running multiple partitions over the > two drives. If possible, what I'd do would be to use the 2GB for the file > systems and give the database the whole 3GB one. No 3G drive -- just the original 2G and a new 2G drive, with the need to store a contiguous 3G dataset. But, again, the risk is increased by the spanning, which was the point of the post... that spanning is nearly useless without additional support changes to increase reliability. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:45:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21713 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:45:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21706; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:45:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Howard Stacey cc: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers' list) Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 20:52:11 +0200." <199504031852.UAA03687@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 15:45:28 -0700 Message-ID: <21705.796949128@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Don't worry Jordan, I do have a printer, & I can assure you ghostscript > & ghostview work , I use them every day with groff & my wysiwyg patches to v i > & ghostview to make a nice(ish) doc editing thing, > & print to hp laser often, & can dicert the .ps files to flexfax, > so all is not bad :-) I'm not saying that this doesn't WORK, I know it does for a lot of people. The problem is that nobody bundles their stuff up so that OTHER PEOPLE can use this stuff easily! :-( I mean, I'm glad you're using it successfully but if you really want to go the extra necessary step, write a "how to" guide (or, better yet, the automation) for making it possible for OTHER people to do it. I know your days aren't exactly 100% full.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:45:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21722 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:45:47 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21716 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:45:45 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA09400; Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:38:40 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504032238.AA09400@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:38:39 MDT Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504032222.AA09247@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 3, 95 04:22:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's a can of works that ends up substituting a BIOS that doesn't ^^^^^ *worms*, I meant to say *worms*. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:46:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21748 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:46:27 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA21742 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:46:24 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA04414; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:46:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA02907; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:46:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199504032246.PAA02907@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NE2000 Plus performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 09:18:02 +0200." <199504030718.JAA09037@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 15:45:55 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> It's not supported. I didn't even know of the NE2000+ existence until you >> mentioned here. > >Ok. A couple of questions about network ards and drivers, though: > >1) how much faster are memory-mapped cards wrt io-mapped ones ? Is it > just the clock cycle per word that you save in transferring data > with MOVSW instead of INSW, or there is more (e.g. the driver > does more or less random access to the board, thus has to waste > time specifying the address of the desired data quite often) ? SMC cards have shared memory that can be read and written at 4MB/sec. The NE2000 style cards (using programmed I/O) transfer bytes at about 1.7MB/sec. Thus when trying to do 1100KB/sec, the SMC cards take 25% of the CPU to read/write the packet and the NE2000 cards take more than 60% of the CPU. >2) not long ago,, if memory serves, it was mentioned that the > network drivers in freebsd use only one buffer for tx data, and > the rest of the memory for rx packets. If this is true, how can It isn't true for if_ed.c (the driver for the cards we're talking about). It's also not true for most of the other supported cards. The 'ed' driver uses a multi buffering scheme to transmit packets if the card has 16K or more of memory...this includes SMC 16bit cards, NE2000's, and 16bit 3c503's. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 15:47:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21774 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:47:17 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA21764; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:47:12 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA00659; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:44:20 -0400 From: "House of Debuggin'" Message-Id: <199504032144.RAA00659@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: emacs + NIS + free() == ???? To: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4826 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Now I've gone and done it. I've just received a bug report (and confirmed it myself) that emacs-19.28 SEGVs when NIS is enabled in FreeBSD-current. The crash happens at startup when endnetgrent() tries to free the list of netgrp structures created by a previous call to getnetgrent(): (gdb) bt #0 0x72198 in _free_internal (ptr=0x10eb08) at gmalloc.c:862 #1 0x72252 in free (ptr=0x10eb08) at gmalloc.c:906 #2 0x4dea7 in emacs_blocked_free (ptr=0x10eb08) at alloc.c:230 #3 0x7223c in free (ptr=0x10eb08) at gmalloc.c:904 #4 0x815cf70 in endnetgrent () #5 0x815cdd6 in setnetgrent () #6 0x815de88 in _createcaches () #7 0x815dc34 in __initdb () #8 0x815da12 in getpwuid () #9 0x5467a in init_editfns () at editfns.c:66 #10 0x23917 in main (argc=3, argv=0xefbfd908, envp=0xefbfd918) at emacs.c:638 (gdb) What seems to be happening is that endnetgrent() is ending up inside emacs's own internal version of free(). getnetgrent() and endnetgrent() are invoked by the code which I added to getpwent.c to do +@netgroup/-@netgroup overrides. Since getnetgrent() was never called as part of getpwuid() before, I'm tempted to think that this was a lurking problem that I foolishly prodded into the open. That or I screwed something up myself, which is equally likely. At the moment, this has me totally stumped. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. On a different note, this incident has helped me uncover another bug related to RPC. Here's a simple test program: #include #include main() { struct passwd *pw; setpwent(); while ((pw = getpwent()) != NULL) printf ("NAME: [%s] PASS: [%s] UID: [%d] GID: [%d] SHELL: [%s]\n", pw->pw_name, pw->pw_passwd, pw->pw_uid, pw->pw_gid, pw->pw_shell); } This just prints out the contents of your password file. With NIS enabled, it also prints out the contents of the NIS passwd map. Now watch: [/tmp]:marple.ctr.columbia.edu{263}# limit cputime unlimited filesize unlimited datasize 131072 kbytes stacksize 65536 kbytes coredumpsize unlimited memoryuse unlimited descriptors 256 <- max file descriptors == FD_SETSIZE memorylocked 6668 kbytes maxproc 179 [/tmp]:marple.ctr.columbia.edu{264}# a.out NAME: [root] PASS: [YEAH_RIGHT] UID: [0] GID: [0] SHELL: [/bin/csh] NAME: [toor] PASS: [*] UID: [0] GID: [0] SHELL: [] NAME: [daemon] PASS: [*] UID: [1] GID: [31] SHELL: [] NAME: [operator] PASS: [*] UID: [2] GID: [20] SHELL: [/bin/csh] NAME: [bin] PASS: [*] UID: [3] GID: [7] SHELL: [/nonexistent] NAME: [games] PASS: [*] UID: [7] GID: [13] SHELL: [] NAME: [news] PASS: [*] UID: [8] GID: [8] SHELL: [/nonexistent] NAME: [man] PASS: [*] UID: [9] GID: [9] SHELL: [] NAME: [uucp] PASS: [*] UID: [66] GID: [66] SHELL: [/usr/libexec/uucp/uucico] NAME: [ingres] PASS: [*] UID: [267] GID: [74] SHELL: [/bin/csh] NAME: [falcon] PASS: [*] UID: [32766] GID: [31] SHELL: [/usr/games/wargames] NAME: [nobody] PASS: [*] UID: [32767] GID: [9999] SHELL: [/nonexistent] [nis passwd map data follows] Now watch again: [/tmp]:marple.ctr.columbia.edu{266}# unlimit [/tmp]:marple.ctr.columbia.edu{267}# limit descriptors descriptors 360 <- max file descriptors > FD_SETSIZE [/tmp]:marple.ctr.columbia.edu{268}# a.out yp_match: clnt_call: RPC: Unable to receive; errno = Invalid argument clnttcp_create: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive clnttcp_create: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive clnttcp_create: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive clnttcp_create: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive clnttcp_create: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Unable to receive [...] What's happening is that clntudp_call() is doing a select(), and it's using the value returned by _rpc_dtablesize() instead of FD_SETSIZE as select()'s first argument. When _rpc_dtablesize() returns a value greater than 256 (and it does when 'unlimit' raises the maximum number of file descriptors to 360), select() returns -1 with errno set to EINVAL. The select() man page seems to suggest that values larger than 256 are valid. The RPC problem could be fixed by clamping the value returned by _rpc_dtablesize() at 256, but that only gets around what could be buggy behavior in select(). Again, suggestions would be appreciated. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~~~ FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Tue Mar 14 11:11:25 EST 1995 ~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 16:06:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA22896 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:06:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA22889; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:06:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Howard Stacey cc: Christoph Kukulies , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 23:58:23 +0200." <199504022158.XAA27382@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 16:06:02 -0700 Message-ID: <22888.796950362@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > but since we'll be governed by US laws > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > You may choose to be be governed by US Laws, > but do NOT include me in your choice ! Sigh.. Why is it that Julian can always be counted to come lunging out of his corner, foam spraying from his jaws, whenever this subject comes up? :-) Proper CONTEXT, Julian: "..but since we'll be governed by US laws.." was in a paragraph talking about the FreeBSD Project, Inc. The COMPANY thus created, non-profit or no, has to be registered in SOME country, yes? It also follows that "we", we being the Project Inc, will be bound by the *corporate laws* of the country in which the project is incorporated. For that matter, we'll be further bound by the *state laws* of whichever state we incorporate in, which is why many companies incorporate in the state of Delaware. And don't tell me that it's less complicated in Germany or the U.K. because it sure as hell isn't! It's just different.. Beurocracies are universally evil to deal with and unless you're contemplating some new orbital country of your own, I don't see this problem going away. > Making an Incorporation in the USA will not protect active FreeBSD > individuals here in Germany, just as my Limited Company in England > does not really protect my professional activities for the company > here in Germany. (that being a simplified summary) The incorporation of the project is not about protecting individual contributors. It's not possible for even large companies to do that very effectively, so I'm hardly going to try and open that large an umbrella of our own. Again, the people being protected are the *board members* of the FreeBSD Project, those seen as being "primarily responsible". Since you're not going to BE on the board, it's hardly your worry now is it? :-) > This usurps the rights, authority etc of the global FreeBSD community, > Let's at least test this with a Formal Ballot first. WHAT authority? "The global FreeBSD community" is not an organized body with whom I could negotiate even if I wanted to. They're free to help elect board members for the FreeBSD Project, Inc. when the time comes, but that's much further down the road. I would further expect them to elect on the basis of DEMONSTRATED DEDICATION TO THE PROJECT, not on politics or some sort of bloated EEC model where each country gets a certain number of representatives whether it deserves them or not! :-) > We non Americans can't vote for the US government, so > I do Not accept the exporting of USA laws beyond USA national boundaries. Nobody ever suggested any such thing. Truly, you're going rather far out with all of this here. Has someone switched your coffee for some hallucinogenic substance that also causes intense paranoia as a side-effect? :-) > No one asked for info on how to set up a company elsewhere than the USA, > (I know how to for England & Wales, I bet others know for their countries). *Sigh*.. Julian, you're thinking with some portion of your viscera again and not your brain. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, PLEASE! 1. More of the core team members are in the U.S. than anywhere else. 2. Walnut Creek CDROM is the perfect place to rent out space, considering that we'd pay little or no rent! We also get a T1 line, FAX machines, 24 hour staffed operator, etc. You know what we'd have to PAY to get all of this? I'd much rather use the project's money for funding the PROJECT, not tossing it profigately away for infrastructure support, thank you! 3. All of this is easily negotiated. Sure, I could probably find another "sponsor" in Wales someplace, but could they give me the same services for the same price? Unlikely, and why should I bother spending all kinds of time negotiating with a completely new set of people when I've already worked out 90% of the arrangement *RIGHT HERE*? 4. Some 4-5 members of the FreeBSD core team are or will be shortly RIGHT HERE. David Greenman, the technical lead on this project, is less than 1 hour's flight time away. If you can suggest a better evolving synergy anyplace else on earth, I'm all ears.. Truly, I would consider it grounds for "impeachment" if I went so far off my rocker that I started inventing "make work" like this for myself when there's so much else to do for 2.1. Personally? I'd rather put the project headquarters in Strasbourg, France since I happen to LOVE that city and would live there in a second. But would it make any sense? None at all.. Sorry, Julian, but this is where it's all happening and where the best infrastructure exists. We've got high speed Internet connectivity, a convergence of all the key people & the high-level support of Walnut Creek CDROM. There's no reason to spit in the soup because you don't like the country it's being cooked in! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 16:19:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23392 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:19:17 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23386; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:19:16 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA27229; Mon, 3 Apr 95 23:18:42 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA23510; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:18:34 -0600 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:18:34 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504032318.AA23510@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504022158.XAA27382@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> (message from Julian Howard Stacey on Sun, 02 Apr 1995 23:58:23 +0200) Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Julian" == Julian Howard Stacey writes: Julian> By all means use a country which uses the language we mail Julian> in, but not the USA, how about South Africa ? or New Julian> Zealand or Eire (Southern Ireland) or ... ? I vote for Eire. --Sean Colin-Patrick O'Kelly From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 16:30:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23536 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:30:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23529; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:30:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 17:18:34 MDT." <9504032318.AA23510@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 16:30:07 -0700 Message-ID: <23527.796951807@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I vote for Eire. Great. I'll finally manage to move out of Dublin and then everyone will start yelling at me to move back! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 16:32:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23604 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:32:43 -0700 Received: from cs.pdx.edu (root@cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.183]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23598 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:32:42 -0700 Received: from sirius.cs.pdx.edu (root@sirius.cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.199]) by cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-12/23/94-P) with ESMTP id QAA09165; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:25:41 -0700 for Received: from localhost (jrb@localhost.cs.pdx.edu [127.0.0.1]) by sirius.cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-9/18/94-C) with ESMTP id QAA19719; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:24:31 -0700 for Message-Id: <199504032324.QAA19719@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 14:35:21 PDT." <19926.796944921@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 16:24:29 -0700 From: James Binkley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What is the status for hardware/software for acquiring and sending video? Lucky for us that nv is available as src. Of course, there is also vic. Don't forget imm :->! Jim Binkley jrb@cs.pdx.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 16:55:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23968 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:55:02 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA23958; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:54:57 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA04389 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:15:02 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 4 Apr 95 03:15:02 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id DAA01102; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:14:43 +0400 To: Amancio Hasty , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@netcom.com, jkh@FreeBSD.org, Mark Tinguely References: <199504031346.NAA04047@star-gate.com> In-Reply-To: <199504031346.NAA04047@star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty at Mon, 03 Apr 1995 13:46:14 +0000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:14:42 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 886 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504031346.NAA04047@star-gate.com> Amancio Hasty writes: >o Me, I have been waiting for the sound driver V30 to fully merge in > the old sound driver changes to make vat work. When I am done > with V30, I will submit my patches to Hannu so that we don't go > thru this mess again. About a month ago I submitted the bi-directional > dma stuff for the GUS to Hannu however he was too busy wrapping > the sound driver V30 release. Last but not least I just got > the sound driver V30 from Hannu a few days ago. I got it too. Do you try to integrate V30 into -current now? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 17:29:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24696 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:29:49 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA24687 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:29:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA05021; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:23:26 GMT Message-Id: <199504031623.QAA05021@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Newer versions of ProAudio sound cards - any experience? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 19:54:19 +1000." <199504030954.JAA28302@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 16:23:24 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Stephen Hocking said: > > > Get a GUS it already supports 3D under DOS land. > > For instance, DOOM and Descent both support 3D sound. > > > > Amancio > > > > Yeah, well the problem is that my SCSI controller blew up, and I'm > also hunting for a nice 16bit stereo full duplex card, at a relatively cheap > price that this mortgage encumbered person can handle. Educating a wife & > child is also an expensive business, which is one of the reasons why I'm sti ll > running on a 25MHz 386sx. > > Stephen (Grumbles 'r' Us) Hocking > Well, I got my old 486DX33 sitting in my closet if you like I can ship it to you. Anyone wants to donate him a sound card :) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 17:38:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24923 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:38:12 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA24917 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:38:09 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA00952 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:12:53 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA20662; 3 Apr 95 19:11:04 CDT (Mon) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA20659; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:11:04 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504040011.TAA20659@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:11:04 -0500 (CDT) Cc: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504032233.AA09336@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 3, 95 04:33:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 771 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Spanning is simply a tools for easing the administrative burden; > > Sounds like you added to it. You had to set up the drives spanned, and do > > a tape restore of every file system. I only had to do a tape restore of > > /usr... I copied /home right over. > I was lazy, and I got away without the copy/restore/slice_move. But you didn't... you had to mkfs both home and usr to grow them. > But, again, the risk is increased by the spanning, which was the point > of the post... that spanning is nearly useless without additional > support changes to increase reliability. Nonsense. Spanning is *very* useful if you don't span multiple file systems. Your backups become more critical, but you're doing nightly incrementals onto DAT with Amanda anyway, right? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 17:39:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24979 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:39:44 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA24967; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:39:35 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA01026 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:17:24 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA20715; 3 Apr 95 19:14:27 CDT (Mon) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA20712; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:14:26 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504040014.TAA20712@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:14:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504022158.XAA27382@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 2, 95 11:58:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 657 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I suggest you phone the East USA coast, talk to some people at the United > Nations, then get us under the CCITT or ISO or ... in some form, > perhaps listed as a `research in progress group', (thus avoiding the need > for us to worry about standards) Just Please do not try to impose this > FreeBSD USA Inc. on anyone outside the USA, we don't need Imperialism :-( I agree 100% EXCEPT for the CCITT/ISO connection. CCITT and ISO make money on sales of documentation. How long would FreeBSD remain Free under them? Eire sounds good to me. UK is out of the question (the UK official secrets act is a poor precedent if one's picking places to rely on). From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 17:41:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA25008 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:41:25 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA25001 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:41:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA05090; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 16:34:39 GMT Message-Id: <199504031634.QAA05090@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 16:22:26 MDT." <9504032222.AA09247@cs.weber.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 16:34:32 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > > I think I could argue against the VM86() story from another angle > as well; a VM86() call to video BIOS is no more likely to be able > to restore from a wierd video mode than a BIOS call would be able > to reset 16550 serial ports out of FIFO mode. In other words, the > BIOS might not know how to reset the modes, or if it does, it > might not know how to reset everything that needs to be reset if > the mode wasn't established using the BIOS in the first place. Hmm... The above is a bit of speculation and it solely dependent upon the BIOS implementation. We could change the X server to make VM86 call to set the vga resolution or the call could be issue from the console driver and it will save a lot of headaches;additionally we could provide and option to use the current mode setting in the X server for those rare exquisite moments in which someone wants to play with vga sync parameters ... Now all what we need is the VM86 call :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 17:58:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA25335 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:58:42 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA25328; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:58:35 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA20589; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:58:38 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504040058.BAA20589@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:58:38 +0100 (BST) Cc: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <23527.796951807@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 3, 95 04:30:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 543 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who said > > > I vote for Eire. > > Great. I'll finally manage to move out of Dublin and then everyone will > start yelling at me to move back! :-) I vote for Eire too, get to drink nice Guiness when we all have to fly there from every other country we live in :-) -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 18:09:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA25467 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:09:45 -0700 Received: from pogo.jkcg.com (mmdf@pogo.jkcg.com [204.181.168.20]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA25461 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:09:43 -0700 Subject: Drive Partitions To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:04:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Sharp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 576 Message-ID: <9504032104.aa15798@pogo.jkcg.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What I am trying to figure out: I will be putting in a 2G SCSI drive. I would like to make more than the default: a(root),b(swap),e,f,g,h partitions. Is there a safe and _reliable_ way to do so? If so how would I go about doing this. I will be installing via NFS on a lan to handle this. Hopefully if all goes well, my deskside server will be running after I begin this coming Friday evening and it should be finished by Saturday Evening (midnight). If I cannot do this please let me know about any other options that I may have. Thanks in advance! :-) -Andrew From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 18:27:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA25940 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:27:42 -0700 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA25849 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:25:10 -0700 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id KAA06691; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:23:48 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id KAA13447; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:23:47 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA09537; Tue, 4 Apr 95 10:23:45 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rvxS9-000CRBC; Tue, 4 Apr 95 10:30 JST Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 10:18:55 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9504040118.AA00039@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. References: <199504031156.EAA02326@time.cdrom.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Great. I've been struggling with my FreeBSD box to run multicast applications. I'm very glad to know there is a FreeBSD authority having interests on multicasting/MBONE. First, I might say that my experience is based only on FreeBSD 2.0R. >1. Crank up sound card (SB16), make sure it at least works from the /dev/audio > viewpoint. Don't know of SB16 will *work*, but at least I know I can > deal with audio on a fairly generic level. SB16 works fine as a usual /dev/audio device. Vat, however, doesn't work with /dev/audio. It is not a hardware problem, but is a driver problem. As far as I know, vat is only available as binary for BSDI. It requires Sun/BSDI compatible audio interface. /dev/audio in FreeBSD 2.0 lacks some minor (I guess) ioctl's, which are essential for vat, unfortunately. /dev/vatio ("vat_audio" driver) tries to simulate BSDI audio interface on the top of /dev/audio. Vat_audio.c in 2.0R (or in 950210-SNAP) doesn't compile, however. (I have not yet tested one in 950322-SNAP.) I tried to hack vat_audio and found that vat heavily relies upon full-duplex operation of the audio device, even when you just want to listen to other guys' chatting. VoxWare supplied with 2.0R only provides half-duplex operation however. I had a feeling that the author of vat_audio (I don't know who he/she is) knows all of the story. Vat_audio actually grabs two audio devices (/dev/audio and /dev/audio1), puts one in input only and another in output only, and behaves as if it is one audio device. Hence, I believe you need two SB16 (or whatever sound card) to run vat on vat_audio. I'm very much interested in hearing from MBONE/FreeBSD hackers how they are living with vat. >4. Up comes VAT. ... abridged ... > But nothing on the speaker! No audio! Foo! I have explained my understanding of the reason. I have one more thing to say. Vat opens the path "/dev/audio" as a default audio device. It is hard coded. Then, vat sends several ioctl's which are not supported in FreeBSD /dev/audio. All of them fails (i.e., returns with errno == EINVAL). Strangely enough, vat ignores the error. (No error messages nor beep sounds.) It just sits on the screen, wasting CPU. >5. Up comes nv. ... abridged ... > No pictures! No > sound! Nv doesn't support audio. Just video. It is normal that nv generates no sounds. But, hmmm, I had no trouble seeing videos with nv running on FreeBSD 2.0R. One thing I can imagine is encoding mismatch. Nv suppoprts several video "encoding". Supported encodings vary from version to version. I suggest you first see what encoding is used for a paticular video session (sd tells you the info), then verify the encoding is supported by your copy of nv by clicking "encoding" menu item. >What's the story with this stuff? Ah, I've just recalled another fate... IGMP support codes (sys/netinet/igmp.c) in IP-Multicast 3.3 package, which I believe is the basis of FreeBSD multicast codes, is *TOTALLY* broken. A bug makes IGMP response timeouts too fast on big endian machines and causes IGMP packet traffic on the network unnecessarily high, but applications such as nv still runs. On little endian machines, on the other hand, the bug makes the timeouts too slow and makes the system fail to send IGMP responses to a local mrouter within time limits. Hence, the mrouter sometimes stops feeding IP multicast packets to me. Nv stops working, indicating "signal lost", if this happens. (It usually restarts after one or two minutes, by the way.) Temporary solution to the problem is very easy. You will find a function named igmp_input in sys/netinet/igmp.c. It inludes a line something like this: timer = ntohs(igmp->igmp_code); You should change it to: timer = igmp->igmp_code; This change forces your FreeBSD box to behave just like Sparc boxes; it is still buggy, and generates unnecessarily high IGMP traffic, but multicast applications run fine. Hope this (somewhat long) message helps. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 18:33:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA26349 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:33:33 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA26341 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:33:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA05512; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:27:19 GMT Message-Id: <199504031727.RAA05512@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: James Binkley cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 16:24:29 MST." <199504032324.QAA19719@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 17:27:17 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> James Binkley said: > > What is the status for hardware/software for acquiring and > sending video? Lucky for us that nv is available as src. > Of course, there is also vic. Don't forget imm :->! > All of the above apps have been ported to FreeBSD or are available. There are three FreeBSD hackers with their eye sites on video: Mark Tinguely Jim Lowe and me. Also, Xinside has reported that they will be supporting vide extensions for Tseng's W32 based board which have video capability. The hold up has been mostly appropiate and affordable hardware which is now becoming available. Sure there has been video and capture boards available which were either too expensive, ran on ISA bus, the playback was either a postage size stamp window, not enough colors, use a vga feature conector which is incompatible with many svga cards (example ReelMagic mpeg playback board) , etc... I think that FreeBSD can become the killer OS with support for video and 100MB ethernet cards :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 18:51:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27109 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:51:10 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA27042; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:50:03 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA25598 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:33:34 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 4 Apr 95 05:33:34 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id FAA01527; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:33:30 +0400 To: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org, "House of Debuggin'" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <199504032144.RAA00659@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> In-Reply-To: <199504032144.RAA00659@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu>; from House of Debuggin' at Mon, 3 Apr 1995 17:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:33:30 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: emacs + NIS + free() == ???? Lines: 30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1491 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504032144.RAA00659@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> House of Debuggin' writes: >What seems to be happening is that endnetgrent() is ending up inside >emacs's own internal version of free(). getnetgrent() and endnetgrent() >are invoked by the code which I added to getpwent.c to do >+@netgroup/-@netgroup overrides. Since getnetgrent() was never called >as part of getpwuid() before, I'm tempted to think that this was a >lurking problem that I foolishly prodded into the open. That or I screwed >something up myself, which is equally likely. The best way to catch it -- track all malloc/free sequences and malloc chain consistensy. Any of malloc debugging packages will help here. Basically it hapens when: 1) You free non-malloced address. 2) You damage malloc chain by overwriting beyond requested range. >The select() man page seems to suggest that values larger than 256 >are valid. The RPC problem could be fixed by clamping the value >returned by _rpc_dtablesize() at 256, but that only gets around >what could be buggy behavior in select(). Select man page have slightly wrong information about expanding default 256 limit. I just commit manpage with proper description. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 18:54:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27276 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:54:07 -0700 Received: from pyromania.apana.org.au (pyromania.apana.org.au [202.12.87.123]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27258 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:53:59 -0700 Received: (from john@localhost) by pyromania.apana.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA15826 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:53:24 +1000 From: John Herks Message-Id: <199504040153.LAA15826@pyromania.apana.org.au> Subject: Xylogics Annex Software WORKING! To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:53:24 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 762 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have just installed a new Xylogics Annex 4000 terminal server with FreeBSD 2.0R. I am happy to report that all the software (erpcd etc.) works well with some minor patches. The software release is Annex 9.2. \|/ (@ @) ----------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo----------------------------------- ``` ''' John Herks Communications Engineer Pyromania Unix Melbourne john@pyromania.apana.org.au Phone:+613-650-4776 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 19:52:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29854 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:52:03 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA29807 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 19:50:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA00799 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:59:59 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 14:59:59 -0500 From: "Sergey A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199503131959.OAA00799@hq.icb.chel.su> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: NetBoot for 3C509 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello ! I added the support for 3Com 5x9 card for netboot. May be it will be interesting for you ? Uuencode is at the end of message. Ungzip/ untar it in /usr/src/sys/i386/boot/netboot (but save original ether.c before doing this. You should do it because in this version it simply overwrites support for any other card). Change name of interface in main.c to "ep0". Serge Babkin P.S. Sorry for my poor english - it's not my native language. begin 644 boot509.tgz M'XL(`````````^Q<:WO:2+*>K^97]&2>9,#&!'S+3!QR5@;9UK,8&"''R_[5JM6C@P/QDQ"B]FR/?\6>?,??_N%A]4B(PV?[M=I>]5EM#]\.#YY5?Q+? ME:@??_Q7>+K]S?X*;=TZZ70LL2L$_7:?6J=65YP$01S%H3T7W3`8A_:L4-`6 M\20(GXN>&XY=<6(//GB^*`[X]V^3?U>\X:`RG+C32K0H%81HVK'[7)RZ`['W MFZC]_OMAH2`:P?PV],:36!0;)?JXOTLM97%AAS&PF:X?NV%4^4)/S7="-Q*O MW+$MSNQPZ-F;>J-CGDQT$=;$BT04C.)K.W3%S+X5`U"./GH;! 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MY0C$2$HW[*/D#J=Q"00F_.@,,>P^)_B*`#W=KF"+S6D=09M^=/I?XG1%9BM) M;"MBH:`8%E`\V2!["87W.T5W"RT>QT_S3^8$B_2Y4[GR1N::Z&DF']X]BMC9S(U#K!B]20-?1)^J9D)2Y M$#+T\B"&R>/V2K$%D%2.1,'G"B3A"H.'3X%$_I"V!C MR*GBP(U=_>('G<_:!ABH#1;"^P2Z]QT0W:"[7.![EF7RYCZ2Q9/_,1R1K M-O0W(-04&,QS2G(`RR16:ETS4JRC'O+EF/)@W:L1G*(S"C#?ADG-U2G`K9.L M@`-T=O/[M("^+T7WQZ/WUP7LO!0+[Z>`7)0BL72>O\4P05=1=@Z6P332Z0$D/7;DQ%A(,OD\-,\_JPW7:MBS>Z]OQG*'D]M(];Z&G/=X%9\M]RNCJ=(#O&3+ M^RV^1V\4,6&F-\YDO7K!A`HBN9N\%6XZ#7M3I*\&@9E0G73**(=(-29&V[>#B;Y"BVXN+H=@T M0;U"A&\B?NN?G[,-K6T29%(+)'DFR4AQ@96:=9KI+K!*95&1N>CQ]:";_&ZS MTDYF^I6(D`N_RH0XBF;]VY&#.Q5=P'<:.@F3(N6DMD&ZA=-\FL$(ZU7 MC6U1FIFJ(FV]V%RQPT6DF71>(KUZBSVLKI)%&G-,*'W336X_S8W,8D#Z]9*6 M0I^HE7/UHH1.E9-RPR7(K'3<-,>_;OA`R"QI::-VA%\8T*"!I"Q:E["/RX1- MF'\MU1RI0DX4)5>2?&DPF1OAT37K`..>+)>&Z0+D;Z3E=H>:7&9K;55I21W:AB&0^DP-D;LB^[&Q/F_:S3(=,--"?6D M6P.^S#M7&+"8J598YNRFPJ=>X*HADL*-,B(_DU(-DS7_3(HS3;-<+$SWL5JM M:Y%@"L.G7M#I?L\[J5.F/+Q2EM\R9-KT52)Q^\`II-WRT1)?AE$&)KP[A_7L ?_^WG?7@.S^$Y/(?G\!R>PW-X#@\^_P6CE"Y=`'@``-WR ` end From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 20:06:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00406 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:06:15 -0700 Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA00398 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:06:12 -0700 Received: by saul4.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.02/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA06996; Mon, 3 Apr 95 20:05:52 -0700 X-Sender: spaz@saul4.u.washington.edu Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:05:50 -0700 (PDT) From: John Utz To: FreeBSD hackerlist Subject: ld.so trauma on the march 22 snap please assist! Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks; I have a serious problem: mira# gmake blackj g++ -g -O2 -c -o cards.o cards.cpp g++ -g -O2 -c -o debug.o debug.cpp g++ -g -O2 -c -o main.o main.cpp g++ -g -O2 -c -o io.o io.cpp g++ -g -O2 -c -o play-hand.o play-hand.cpp play-hand.cpp: In function `int blackjack_check(int *, int *, int, int &)': play-hand.cpp:107: warning: initialization to `int' from `double' g++ -o blackj -g -O2 cards.o debug.o main.o io.o play-hand.o mira# ./blackj ld.so failed mira# gdb ./blackj GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.13 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc... (gdb) r Starting program: /usr/local/working/./blackj ld.so failed Program exited with code 01. You can't do that without a process to debug (gdb) q mira# This is the example program that we are supposed to be able to compile without difficulty using g++. It is supposed to work. I have waited a long time to be able to actually *use* my FreeBSD box to do some schoolwork. Now it is barfing all over the place. The TA who proofed it ( the Makefile and program ) is a linux dude, as is the vast majority of unix folk around this campus. They are no help at all. any suggestions would be vastly appreciated!! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 20:19:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00763 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:19:27 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA00756 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:19:25 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA00393; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:18:55 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:18:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: Amancio Hasty cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org, swallace@ece.uci.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: <199504031346.NAA04047@star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Well, here is the scoop on VAT: > > o vat does not work with the sound driver in sys-current. This could be because many (all?) ioctls are still broken for /dev/dsp and /dev/audio in current (for example SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT is broken). Steven could you please look into this if you can? Your last set of commits seemed to break these options. Thanks... Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 20:54:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01486 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:54:01 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01459 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:53:59 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id UAA24847 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:53:38 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504040353.UAA24847@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: NMI message To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 20:53:38 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 462 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! My 1.1.5.1R system gasped: NMI... going to debugger kernel: type 19 trap, code=0 shall I assume this was an intermittent parity error (system had been up for 40 days or so...) like maybe a Vcc glitch or alpha particle, etc.? Haven't dug out any schematics, etc. but I suspect parity is the only thing that would yank on NMI (looked like CPU was doing a memory to memory transfer at the time ... possibly faulting in a page, etc.) Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 21:07:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA01784 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:07:10 -0700 Received: from ix4.ix.netcom.com (ix4.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01778 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:07:09 -0700 Received: from by ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id VAA16501; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:03:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:03:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199504040403.VAA16501@ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: Package / Port Descriptions ... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think we need to include some type of descriptions with the Ports/Packages... If I knew what they were, I'd do it. I figure that since I don't know what these are, then neither do a lot of people. Do most people do like me & install then try to figure out what the package / port does, or is there an easier way? Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 21:17:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA01982 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:17:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA01975; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:17:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 10:18:55 +0200." <9504040118.AA00039@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 21:17:29 -0700 Message-ID: <1974.796969049@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Great. I've been struggling with my FreeBSD box to run multicast > applications. I'm very glad to know there is a FreeBSD authority > having interests on multicasting/MBONE. As you probably read later, I did manage to get video working successfully. The audio end comes next. > SB16 works fine as a usual /dev/audio device. Vat, however, doesn't work > with /dev/audio. It is not a hardware problem, but is a driver problem. > > As far as I know, vat is only available as binary for BSDI. It requires > Sun/BSDI compatible audio interface. /dev/audio in FreeBSD 2.0 lacks some > minor (I guess) ioctl's, which are essential for vat, unfortunately. If this is truly the case then it would be SERIOUSLY worth our while to try and find out what those are and emulate them! We're already fairly close to Sun-compat /dev/audio support and it just makes no sense to stop before reaching full compliance, yes? Do you know how we could find this information out? Any BSDI weenies out there know the appropriate magic being worked over there? > /dev/vatio ("vat_audio" driver) tries to simulate BSDI audio interface on > the top of /dev/audio. Vat_audio.c in 2.0R (or in 950210-SNAP) doesn't > compile, however. (I have not yet tested one in 950322-SNAP.) I believe Amancio & Jim are working on this now. Right guys? Guys?? :-) > I had a feeling that the author of vat_audio (I don't know who he/she > is) knows all of the story. Vat_audio actually grabs two audio > devices (/dev/audio and /dev/audio1), puts one in input only and > another in output only, and behaves as if it is one audio device. That would be Amancio Hasty, I believe. hasty@netcom.com is his email address. If the cheaper/more common cards cannot be supported at all (not even for *output*?? :-( ) then this will be a great shame as Creative Labs and their clones are taking over the PC audio card industry! Perhaps you, Amancio, Andrew & Jim could take an interest in collaboratively looking over the new VOXWARE 3.0 code? It was just released and pointed out to us. It would also be nice if someone "championed" Audio in -current so that all of this works a lot better a lot more often! Andrew has done in the past, are you still "Mr Audio", Andrew? :-). > Vat opens the path "/dev/audio" as a default audio device. It is hard > coded. Then, vat sends several ioctl's which are not supported in > FreeBSD /dev/audio. All of them fails (i.e., returns with errno == > EINVAL). Strangely enough, vat ignores the error. (No error messages > nor beep sounds.) It just sits on the screen, wasting CPU. We really should find out what they are.. We have the source! We should fix these things! :-) > Nv suppoprts several video "encoding". Supported encodings vary from > version to version. I suggest you first see what encoding is used for > a paticular video session (sd tells you the info), then verify the The problem was that no video signal was being broadcast at the time on the channels I was using, not that nv was broken. I was just clueless about the MBONE's indicators for "live" channels and dead ones when I first started using things.. :-) I've since learned a little more, and am quite intrigued by all of this! > A bug makes IGMP response timeouts too fast on big endian machines and > causes IGMP packet traffic on the network unnecessarily high, but > applications such as nv still runs. On little endian machines, on the > other hand, the bug makes the timeouts too slow and makes the system > fail to send IGMP responses to a local mrouter within time limits. Anyone know if this is still there? There have been a lot of mbone fixes going into -current these days.. Thanks for your comments! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 21:20:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA02041 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:20:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA02034; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:20:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: James Binkley , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 17:27:17 -0000." <199504031727.RAA05512@star-gate.com> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 21:20:15 -0700 Message-ID: <2033.796969215@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Also, Xinside has reported that they will be supporting vide extensions > for Tseng's W32 based board which have video capability. This is the Marvel II, right? I've got my eye on one of those.. :-) > Sure there has been video and capture boards available which > were either too expensive, ran on ISA bus, the playback was either > a postage size stamp window, not enough colors, use a vga feature conector > which is incompatible with many svga cards (example ReelMagic mpeg > playback board) , etc... No kidding! The ReelMagic board is a criminal waste of valuable silicon.. :-) > I think that FreeBSD can become the killer OS with support for video > and 100MB ethernet cards :) Well then hold on to your bullet-proof vest because support for BOTH is very close to becoming reality.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 21:29:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA02263 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:29:33 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA02257 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:29:31 -0700 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:28:34 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Ollivier Robert cc: Gary Palmer , tom@haven.uniserve.com, pw@snoopy.MV.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <9504030919.AA08358@blaise.ibp.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. > > I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will > > give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. > > Where one may find the latest version of apsfilter ? I used archie and > it came out with a 1.11 version of it... > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 > Well, I put apsfilter 4.9 delta on ftp.freebsd.org under /pub/FreeBSD/incoming/aps-4.9delta.tar.gz ... Just a note to everyone that grabs it, in case you're wondering why the file isn't coming out of the printer, edit apsfilter/bin/apsfilter and comment the line that is there to save paper for testing puproses... :-) Cheers, Vince vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 22:17:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03402 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:17:39 -0700 Received: from balboa.eng.uci.edu (balboa.eng.uci.edu [128.200.61.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA03396 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:17:38 -0700 Received: from localhost.uci.edu by balboa.eng.uci.edu with SMTP id AA12004 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:16:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199504040516.AA12004@balboa.eng.uci.edu> To: Sujal Patel Cc: Amancio Hasty , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 23:18:54 EDT." Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 22:16:34 -0700 From: Steven Wallace Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: > >> Well, here is the scoop on VAT: >> >> o vat does not work with the sound driver in sys-current. > > This could be because many (all?) ioctls are still broken for /dev/dsp > and /dev/audio in current (for example SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT is broken). > Steven could you please look into this if you can? Your last set of > commits seemed to break these options. Thanks... > Someone (ugen?) changed some IOCTL's in soundcard.h which use _IOR instead of _IORW like it should. Old software that was compiled now is incompatible. This was about the time of my changes, although I did not change any code. I have no idea what is the matter with SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT. It has not changed for a very long time now. Make sure you do not have any EXCLUDE_* options defined in your config file. Steven From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 22:20:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03459 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:20:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA03452; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:20:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Package / Port Descriptions ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 21:03:38 PDT." <199504040403.VAA16501@ix4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 22:20:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3451.796972854@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think we need to include some type of descriptions with the > Ports/Packages... The ports collection gets an INDEX file, though you still need your own awk script to read it if you don't have /usr/ports/Makefile. Not ideal yet. It's meant to be front-ended by a viewer! The packages collection also generally gets an INDEX file built up of the ONELINE fields. It's pretty easy to do.. I'll look to see if the last one is up-to-date, though admittedly it's pretty ugly and should ALSO probably be read through a browser (or at least smoked glass). All of this stuff is practically screaming: "FRAMEWORK! WHERE'S THE SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION PACKAGE??" at me, so I have to go now.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 22:22:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03511 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:22:57 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA03505 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:22:55 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA01039; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:22:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:22:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: Steven Wallace cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: <199504040516.AA12004@balboa.eng.uci.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Steven Wallace wrote: > Someone (ugen?) changed some IOCTL's in soundcard.h which use _IOR instead > of _IORW like it should. Old software that was compiled now is > incompatible. This was about the time of my changes, although > I did not change any code. > > I have no idea what is the matter with SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT. > It has not changed for a very long time now. > Make sure you do not have any EXCLUDE_* options defined in your > config file. Well, I recompiled my software and have no EXCLUDE_* options defined.. The SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT ioctl still doesn't work. Any ideas? Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 22:27:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03588 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:27:18 -0700 Received: from balboa.eng.uci.edu (balboa.eng.uci.edu [128.200.61.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA03582 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:27:17 -0700 Received: from localhost.uci.edu by balboa.eng.uci.edu with SMTP id AA12242 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:26:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199504040526.AA12242@balboa.eng.uci.edu> To: Sujal Patel Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 01:22:29 EDT." Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 22:26:16 -0700 From: Steven Wallace Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I have no idea what is the matter with SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT. >> It has not changed for a very long time now. >> Make sure you do not have any EXCLUDE_* options defined in your >> config file. > > Well, I recompiled my software and have no EXCLUDE_* options defined.. > The SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT ioctl still doesn't work. Any ideas? > > Sujal What software uses SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT? What sound card are you using? Have you tried recompiling the software? Have you tried using an old one compiled for 1.1 or 2.0? Steven From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 22:28:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03621 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:28:52 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA03615 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:28:49 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA06178; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:28:19 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504040428.VAA06178@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: NMI message To: dgy@seagull.rtd.com (Don Yuniskis) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504040353.UAA24847@seagull.rtd.com> from "Don Yuniskis" at Apr 3, 95 08:53:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1105 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Greetings! > My 1.1.5.1R system gasped: > NMI... going to debugger > kernel: type 19 trap, code=0 > shall I assume this was an intermittent parity error (system had been > up for 40 days or so...) like maybe a Vcc glitch or alpha particle, etc.? > Haven't dug out any schematics, etc. but I suspect parity is the only > thing that would yank on NMI (looked like CPU was doing a memory to memory > transfer at the time ... possibly faulting in a page, etc.) > Thx, --don Yes, if this is a once in 40 day event I would attribute it to either an alpha particle or the phase of the moon. If you see any more of them be warry for failing components. If you have a good DVM check your +5V, even better check it for noise with a scope. Check it at the Simms and at the power supply connector to the motherboard. If your simms have tin instead of gold connectors on them reseat them, I have seen a problem here too many times to mention. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 22:52:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA04160 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:52:59 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA04154 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:52:58 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA01202; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:52:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:52:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: Steven Wallace cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: <199504040526.AA12242@balboa.eng.uci.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Steven Wallace wrote: > What software uses SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT? What sound card are you using? > Have you tried recompiling the software? Have you tried using > an old one compiled for 1.1 or 2.0? The software I'm using is Paradise-netrek. I've tried both 2.0 compiled and -current compiled binaries. Here is a code fragment: *fragsize = 0; frag = 0x00080007; ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT, &frag); ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE, fragsize); if (!(*fragsize)) { printf ("Error: Couldn't Get Block Size\n"); } On Linux (same VoxWare drivers), this code fragment runs through ok. On FreeBSD, the GETBLKSIZE returns 0 causing the Error. Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 23:25:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04807 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:25:24 -0700 Received: from lyria.stanford.edu (lyria.Stanford.EDU [36.146.0.57]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04801 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:25:23 -0700 Received: (from teren@localhost) by lyria.stanford.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA17368; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:32:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:32:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Lee To: David Greenman cc: Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NE2000 Plus performance In-Reply-To: <199504032246.PAA02907@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, David Greenman wrote: > >> It's not supported. I didn't even know of the NE2000+ existence until you > >> mentioned here. > > > >Ok. A couple of questions about network ards and drivers, though: > > > >1) how much faster are memory-mapped cards wrt io-mapped ones ? Is it > > just the clock cycle per word that you save in transferring data > > with MOVSW instead of INSW, or there is more (e.g. the driver > > does more or less random access to the board, thus has to waste > > time specifying the address of the desired data quite often) ? > > SMC cards have shared memory that can be read and written at 4MB/sec. The > NE2000 style cards (using programmed I/O) transfer bytes at about 1.7MB/sec. > Thus when trying to do 1100KB/sec, the SMC cards take 25% of the CPU to > read/write the packet and the NE2000 cards take more than 60% of the CPU. I'm confused now. So the ed driver DOES support shared memory for SMC cards, but NOT for NE2000plus? Meaning an SMC card will out perform a NE2000 card by a LOT! I believe the original post was about a clone. I believe the original NE2000"plus" spec comes from National Semiconductor's NE2000plus card. According to the manual the default configuration is "programmed I/O" and it has a higher performance mode called "shared RAM". Shared RAM mode can be configured to use upper memory or extended memory. You can choose upper memory of C000:0h, C400:0h,...DC00:0h or extended memory of E0000:0h, E2000:0h,...FE000:0h. Is it possible that this is just the same as the SMC spec and if I configure the card to shared memory mode, the ed driver will just think it's an SMC card and do it's thing? Terry I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 23:36:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA05034 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:36:32 -0700 Received: from Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Xenon.Stanford.EDU [36.28.0.25]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA05028 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:36:30 -0700 Received: by Xenon.Stanford.EDU (5.61+IDA/25-Xenon-eef) id AA25588; Mon, 3 Apr 95 23:36:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:36:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Lee To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Prob compile kernel 950322SNAP Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to recompile my kernel. I've done it many times before with previous SNAPs. I modified /usr/src/sys/sys -> /usr/include/sys as noted by someone. I get the following errors: cc -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DGENERIC -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI386_CPU -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 -c vers.c loading kernel if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment ip_input.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment ip_input.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment userconfig.o: Undefined symbol `_strncmp' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Stop. Help please? Terry I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Apr 3 23:47:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA05282 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:47:26 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA05275 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:47:24 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA05274; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:47:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA03106; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:47:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199504040647.XAA03106@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lee cc: Luigi Rizzo , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NE2000 Plus performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 23:32:49 PDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 23:47:00 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> SMC cards have shared memory that can be read and written at 4MB/sec. The >> NE2000 style cards (using programmed I/O) transfer bytes at about 1.7MB/sec. >> Thus when trying to do 1100KB/sec, the SMC cards take 25% of the CPU to >> read/write the packet and the NE2000 cards take more than 60% of the CPU. > >I'm confused now. So the ed driver DOES support shared memory for SMC >cards, but NOT for NE2000plus? Meaning an SMC card will out perform a >NE2000 card by a LOT! You're not confused at all - this is exactly correct. >I believe the original post was about a clone. I believe the original >NE2000"plus" spec comes from National Semiconductor's NE2000plus card. >According to the manual the default configuration is "programmed I/O" and >it has a higher performance mode called "shared RAM". Shared RAM mode can be >configured to use upper memory or extended memory. You can choose upper >memory of C000:0h, C400:0h,...DC00:0h or extended memory of >E0000:0h, E2000:0h,...FE000:0h. Is it possible that this is just the >same as the SMC spec and if I configure the card to shared memory mode, >the ed driver will just think it's an SMC card and do it's thing? It won't work. The ed driver supports (for example) the 3c503 and SMC cards shared memory, but both have completely different setup/initialization methods. The NE2000+ is another animal entirely. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 00:02:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA05447 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:02:17 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA05441 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:02:13 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA06369; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:01:13 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504040601.XAA06369@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Prob compile kernel 950322SNAP To: terryl@CS.Stanford.EDU (Terry Lee) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Terry Lee" at Apr 3, 95 11:36:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1365 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm trying to recompile my kernel. I've done it many times before with > previous SNAPs. I modified /usr/src/sys/sys -> /usr/include/sys as noted > by someone. I get the following errors: > > cc -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -nostdinc -I. -I../.. > -I../../sys -I../../../include -DGENERIC -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI386_CPU > -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 > -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -Di386 > -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 -c vers.c > loading kernel > if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment > if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment > if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment > if_ether.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment > ip_input.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment > ip_input.o: Undefined symbol `_inet_ntoa' referenced from text segment > userconfig.o: Undefined symbol `_strncmp' referenced from text segment > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > > > Help please? cd /usr/src/sys/libkern make cleandir obj && make depend all install Then go build your kernel. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 00:29:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA05901 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:29:21 -0700 Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA05894 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:29:20 -0700 Received: by saul2.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.02/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA00939; Tue, 4 Apr 95 00:29:00 -0700 X-Sender: spaz@saul2.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:29:00 -0700 (PDT) From: John Utz To: FreeBSD hackerlist Subject: My contribution to the html bloatathon.. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks; I have been watching the html discussion. I am not clear as to what the final decison was so i thought i would toss in my 0.02. If there is an interest in shipping a html browser as part of the release, may i suggest chimera? It is small ( 274k ), functional, has a non threatening looking copyright, and is built entirely with Athena widgets. This means that it is not the prettiest thing going, but one gets a simple browser that gets the job done. I can put a compiled copy in incoming for you guys to play with, but it really is not needed, because it makes right up ( we dont still have people out there running 2.0 without gcc, do we ? ). anyway this has been sloshing around in my noggin for a couple days, so i thought i would let it out. ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 00:32:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA05977 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:32:13 -0700 Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA05971 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:32:11 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA12853; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:31:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:31:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199504040731.AAA12853@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com CC: PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <3451.796972854@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Package / Port Descriptions ... From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami/=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQHUbKEI=?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOCsbKEIgGyRCOC0bKEI=?=) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * > I think we need to include some type of descriptions with the * > Ports/Packages... For ports, you can do: "(cd /usr/ports; head */*/pkg/COMMENT)".... A very simple list for all the ports you have. :) If you need longer (one-paragraph or so) descriptions, you can take a look at the DESCR files instead. For packages, you can use pkg_info to view inside the packages. * All of this stuff is practically screaming: "FRAMEWORK! WHERE'S THE * SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION PACKAGE??" at me, so I have to go now.. :-) Maybe we can have an undergrad (hey, isn't there someone on the list teaching a user interface course? :) write a frontend in tcl/tk that will descend into the /usr/ports tree and show all the descriptions and such. And maybe even install it if you're root. :) I'd like to do that myself if I ever get the time, but that won't happen at least until summer.... Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 00:43:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA06146 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:43:06 -0700 Received: from balboa.eng.uci.edu (balboa.eng.uci.edu [128.200.61.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA06140 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:43:04 -0700 Received: from localhost.uci.edu by balboa.eng.uci.edu with SMTP id AA15813 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 00:42:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199504040742.AA15813@balboa.eng.uci.edu> To: Sujal Patel Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 01:52:34 EDT." Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 00:42:37 -0700 From: Steven Wallace Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Steven Wallace wrote: > >> What software uses SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT? What sound card are you using? >> Have you tried recompiling the software? Have you tried using >> an old one compiled for 1.1 or 2.0? > > The software I'm using is Paradise-netrek. I've tried both 2.0 > compiled and -current compiled binaries. > > Here is a code fragment: > > *fragsize = 0; > frag = 0x00080007; > > ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT, &frag); > ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE, fragsize); > > if (!(*fragsize)) { > printf ("Error: Couldn't Get Block Size\n"); > } > > > On Linux (same VoxWare drivers), this code fragment runs through ok. On > FreeBSD, the GETBLKSIZE returns 0 causing the Error. > Take a look: *** /usr/src-2.0/sys/i386/include/soundcard.h Mon Nov 14 06:13:13 1994 --- /sys/i386/include/soundcard.h Wed Mar 8 13:19:01 1995 --- 63,68 ---- *************** *** 536,548 **** #define SNDCTL_DSP_SYNC _IO ('P', 1) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SPEED _IOWR('P', 2, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_STEREO _IOWR('P', 3, int) ! #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOWR('P', 4, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SAMPLESIZE SNDCTL_DSP_SETFMT #define SOUND_PCM_WRITE_CHANNELS _IOWR('P', 6, int) #define SOUND_PCM_WRITE_FILTER _IOWR('P', 7, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_POST _IO ('P', 8) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SUBDIVIDE _IOWR('P', 9, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT _IOWR('P',10, int) /* Audio data formats (Note! U8=8 and S16_LE=16 for compatibility) */ #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETFMTS _IOR ('P',11, int) /* Returns a mask */ --- 514,527 ---- #define SNDCTL_DSP_SYNC _IO ('P', 1) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SPEED _IOWR('P', 2, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_STEREO _IOWR('P', 3, int) ! #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOR('P', 4, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SAMPLESIZE SNDCTL_DSP_SETFMT #define SOUND_PCM_WRITE_CHANNELS _IOWR('P', 6, int) #define SOUND_PCM_WRITE_FILTER _IOWR('P', 7, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_POST _IO ('P', 8) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SUBDIVIDE _IOWR('P', 9, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT _IOWR('P',10, int) + #define SNDCTL_DSP_SETBLKSIZE _IOW('P', 4, int) /* Audio data formats (Note! U8=8 and S16_LE=16 for compatibility) */ #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETFMTS _IOR ('P',11, int) /* Returns a mask */ As you can see, SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE has been changed from _IOWR to _IOR, so old binaries compiled with _IOWR will not be able to find the ioctl, causing the error to be displayed. You can change it back and then recompile your kernel and the old binaries should work. So it is SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE that is causing you probs, not SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT. If you compile using a -current kernel but still have old to compile the program, they won't match and it will still not work. Perhaps in the kernel sound code, we should have SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE accept both _IOWR and _IOR types for backwards broken compatability. What do you guys think? Steven From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 01:23:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA06912 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:23:08 -0700 Received: from orpheus.amdahl.com (orpheus.amdahl.com [129.212.11.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA06893 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:23:03 -0700 Received: from amdahl.amdahl.com by orpheus.amdahl.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0rw3pU-0000KYC; Tue, 4 Apr 95 01:19 PDT Received: from amdahl.uts.amdahl.com by amdahl.amdahl.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #49) id m0rw3ru-0000q4C; Tue, 4 Apr 95 01:21 PDT Received: by amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (/\../\ Smail3.1.14.4 #14.16) id ; Tue, 4 Apr 95 01:21 PDT Message-Id: From: agc@uts.amdahl.com (Alistair G. Crooks) Subject: Re: Removeable media support To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Apr 3, 95 02:54:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1098 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I found several old mailing lists messages pertaining to using a > Syquest removeable drive and an Iomega floptical with FreeBSD. Are > there any quirks to their operation? I assume I can just stick in a > cartridge with a proper filesystem and mount it? My Apple IIGS should > be arriving in my hands sometime next week after clearing customs in > Taiwan, and I'm thinking of connecting it's PLI floptical drive to the > FreeBSD box. No particular reason, just want to try it out. Anyone > else using this piece of hardware? As an aside, I'd just like to say that I've been running a re-badged IBM 650 MB Magneto-Optical drive under NetBSD 1.0A for the last month, with absolutely no problems - my small 4-line "fix" to get sd to recognise removable media has been in the sources for a while. Quicker than tape, more robust, and neat, neat, neat... Cheers, Alistair -- Alistair G. Crooks (agc@uts.amdahl.com) +44 125 234 6377 Amdahl European HQ, Dogmersfield Park, Hartley Wintney, Hants RG27 8TE, UK. [These are only my opinions, and certainly not those of Amdahl Corporation] From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 02:01:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA07890 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:01:49 -0700 Received: from karon.dynas.se (karon.dynas.se [192.71.43.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA07878 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:01:13 -0700 Received: from spirit.dynas.se by karon.dynas.se with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0rw4Tf-000EUaC; Tue, 4 Apr 95 11:00:47 +0200 Received: by spirit.dynas.se (Smail3.1.28.1 #32) id m0rw4Tf-000JfXC; Tue, 4 Apr 95 11:00:47 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:00:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mikael Hybsch To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: (at least) 2 problems with 950322-SNAP Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I has running 2.0 at home and felt that I should try 950322-SNAP. I have now spent 2 evenings trying to install it without success. Day 1: I downloaded the distribution on a spare UFS partition and made the 3 floppy disks. The installation newfs'ed the / and /usr partitions and loaded the cpio floppy. After that the problems starts. The generic kernel won't boot. The matcd driver says something about "trying to fix" and then goes into a endless (> 2 min) loop printing: "matcd0: after reading status byte, buss didn't go idle" No problem. I just use the -c options to disable the matcd driver. In the configuration I type "disable matcd0". It says that there is no such device. I type "ls". The line for the matcd driver looks funny, something like "match int0x77777777 ...". In short: I cannot boot the generic kernel and I cannot disable the matcd driver. Next, I boot the fixit floppy and copy the fixit kernel to the hard disk. (It boots (from floppy) and I only need the wd driver to install the system). Now when I boot the fixit kernel, the machine resets itself before the kernel loading is complete. After printing the information about text and data sizes, there is a new field inside brackets that wasn't there in 2.0. Just after printing one of these numbers is fails. This just happens with the fixit kernel if I try to boot it from wd0. Day 2: At work I download the 950322-SNAP source on a 2.0-RELEASE machine and build myself a generic kernel without the matcd driver. At home I successfully boot the homemade kernel, and the installation goes on. After installing the bindist it complains that the checksums doesn't match for the manpages. I drop out into a shell just to find that the checksum failed because after installing bindist the do_cksum.sh script find cksum in /usr/bin instead of in /stand. The cksum in /usr/bin terminates with signal 10 bus error - core dumped. A closer investigation finds that all dynamically linked programs fail in the same way. The only diagnostics I was able to do was to find out that if I rename ld.so, the programs correctly say "No ld.so". If I leave ld.so and remove all shared libraries it still fails with signal 10. I tried to mount /usr on the fixit floppy it case there where some problems with my homemade kernel. I also tried to reinstall the system from scratch, but the "bus error" problem won't go away. Tonite I will try the 2.0-RELEASE ld.so. I need some ideas of what could be wrong or I'll have to go back to 2.0-RELEASE. My machine is a 486-33 VLB with 2 ide drives, a Sony CDU33A, one SB16 MCD and 16 M RAM. All (but SB16) found by the generic kernel before matcd0 failed. -- Mikael Hybsch Email: micke@dynas.se DynaSoft, Dynamic Software AB Phone: +46-8-615 84 00 Hammarby Fabriksv 13, Box 92058 Fax: +46-8-641 92 00 S-120 06 STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 02:11:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA08053 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:11:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA08044; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:11:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mikael Hybsch cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: (at least) 2 problems with 950322-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 11:00:47 +0200." Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 02:11:16 -0700 Message-ID: <8043.796986676@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No problem. I just use the -c options to disable the matcd driver. > In the configuration I type "disable matcd0". Argh. Yes, well, you stumbled on the one driver that had an illegal space in its name.. I fixed this right afterwards, but it doesn't help you much now, I know! :( > After installing the bindist it complains that the checksums doesn't match > for the manpages. I drop out into a shell just to find that the checksum > failed because after installing bindist the do_cksum.sh script find cksum > in /usr/bin instead of in /stand. > The cksum in /usr/bin terminates with signal 10 bus error - core dumped. Huh.. There should be a fully populated /usr/lib too.. Perhaps the ld.so has been corrupted, that is also possible.. Geeze! This should not happen! Perhaps Poul-H would be willing to make a new floppy for the snap? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 02:11:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA08062 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:11:53 -0700 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA08056 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:11:49 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-6) id AA13184; Tue, 4 Apr 95 11:10:34 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id LAA26436; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:15:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199504040915.LAA26436@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Mosaic with Lesstif To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:15:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) In-Reply-To: <199504022136.XAA26505@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 2, 95 11:36:08 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1185 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > ftp.heart.barnard.za > > Got an IP address? InterNIC doesn't know about it. > > Off hand I'd say that someone's pulling your leg. > > I'm reading this on April 1st, which is maybe why I second the suspicion > of a leg well pulled, as > Christian Barnard was the South African surgeon who did the > 1st succesfull human heart transplant, .... I was hoping that this would never come up again but since you are obviously lagging far behind in reading your mail I'll pick up the occasion for some justification of mine: Actually I put a ^a :-) under the word 'implentation' and if it were not got lost due to some editing/line noise garbage that must have occured to my posting it wouldn't have lead to so much confusion. Kaleb claimed for a missing smiley and subsequent answers only show a closing paren from that smiley - so a little proof is there that I put one in. Why then did you choose Apr 1st for reading your mail backlog :-) > > Julian S > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues 2.1.0-Development FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development #0: Sat Apr 1 17:12:08 MET DST 1995 root@blues:/usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 02:19:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA08121 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:19:08 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA08115 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:18:53 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA27327 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:03:03 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 4 Apr 95 13:03:02 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA00928; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:50:01 +0400 To: Amancio Hasty , Sujal Patel Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , swallace@ece.uci.edu References: In-Reply-To: ; from Sujal Patel at Mon, 3 Apr 1995 23:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:50:00 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 980 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Sujal Patel writes: >On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: >> Well, here is the scoop on VAT: >> >> o vat does not work with the sound driver in sys-current. >This could be because many (all?) ioctls are still broken for /dev/dsp >and /dev/audio in current (for example SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT is broken). >Steven could you please look into this if you can? Your last set of >commits seemed to break these options. Thanks... >Sujal Better to start to work from woxvare v3.0 than fix old stuff, if you interested, I can upload copy to /incloming. Sorry, personally I don't have enough time for it now. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 02:30:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA08302 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:30:32 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA08296 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:30:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA05156; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 01:24:03 GMT Message-Id: <199504040124.BAA05156@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" cc: Sujal Patel , hackers@FreeBSD.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" , swallace@ece.uci.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 12:50:00 +0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 01:24:00 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" said: > In message > Sujal Patel writes: > > > >On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > >> Well, here is the scoop on VAT: > >> > >> o vat does not work with the sound driver in sys-current. > > >This could be because many (all?) ioctls are still broken for /dev/dsp > >and /dev/audio in current (for example SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT is broken). > >Steven could you please look into this if you can? Your last set of > >commits seemed to break these options. Thanks... > > >Sujal > > Better to start to work from woxvare > v3.0 than fix old stuff, if you interested, I can upload > copy to /incloming. Sorry, personally I don't have enough time for it now. > Just my thoughts.... Lets try not to distribute the new sound driver till we know that it works. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 02:36:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA08399 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:36:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA08391; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:36:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amancio Hasty cc: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" , Sujal Patel , hackers@FreeBSD.org, swallace@ece.uci.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 01:24:00 -0000." <199504040124.BAA05156@star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 02:36:56 -0700 Message-ID: <8390.796988216@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just my thoughts.... > > Lets try not to distribute the new sound driver till we know that it > works. Sounds good to me! In fact, that almost seems like a *management* decision! You did that very well! So well, in fact, that I think we should elect you Audio Czar and stand back while you and Jim champion the cause of truly cool audio support in FreeBSD! Andrew's busy, and since you're looking so... managerial.. I just thought it seemed a natural fit! :-) What do the rest of you think? Amancio for Audio Czar? Yes! Rah! Rah! Rah! Speach! Speach! :-) :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 02:59:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA08856 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:59:25 -0700 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA08840 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:58:59 -0700 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from mail.hanse.de (134.100.239.2) with smtp id ; Tue, 4 Apr 95 11:58 MEST Received: from wavehh.UUCP by mail.hanse.de with UUCP for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com id ; Tue, 4 Apr 95 11:58 MET DST Received: by wavehh.hanse.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28235; Tue, 4 Apr 95 10:25:17 +0200 From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) Message-Id: <9504040825.AA28235@wavehh.hanse.de> Subject: Help wanted to port CMU Common Lisp (Re: New Snapshot...Good and Bad....) To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:25:16 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2120 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (CLISP is the cannonical name for Bruno Haibles bytecode system.) CMU Common LISP (CMUCL) is not ported to Intel. There is an attempt to bring it up and we already have a code generator for i386, but there are a few problems: 1) The few registers on i386 will maybe make a new GC neccecary. 2) Only the startup code is C, that is ported easily. The only way to build the rest of the system is to crosscompile from a platform CMUCL already runs on (SPARC, Alpha, HPPA, MIPS). This is complicated. You first have to load your RISC CMUCL image with a code generator for i386, then compile each Lisp file, make sure the code generator you build is the one for i386 and then put this whole thing together using UNIX tools. You have to integrate a working garbage collector. The approach is mostly Linux-based, but we have a few *BSD folks and it is probably a minor step between Linux and *BSD once a i386 system is running. We have a number of encouraged people, but almost all have no RISC workstation in reach to do this and wait for someone to assemble a system that is stable enough to recompile itself on Linux/*BSD. I have the neccecary workstaions, but my understanding of CMU's compiler technology and the build process is not sufficient to do this. If you can help, please contact me. As I said, we have a code generator and the old GC will probably work, maybe damage performance a bit. So we "only" need someone with a deep understanding of compiler technology to make a little push. If you have the neccecary knowledge, this is probably not too much time to spend. P.S. CMU's Common Lisp project is inactive, but the folks are still helpful and have an interest to see CMUCL on Linux/*BSD as long as they don't have to spend too much time. CMUCL is definivly not a dead system. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Private email Martin.Cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de Fax +4940 522 8536. No NeXTMail! "As far as I'm concerned, if something is so complicated that you can't ex- plain it in 10 seconds, then it's probably not worth knowing anyway" - Calvin From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 03:04:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09074 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:04:22 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09055 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:04:08 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA17313; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:59:58 +1000 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:59:58 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504040959.TAA17313@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu Subject: Re: emacs + NIS + free() == ???? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Select man page have slightly wrong information about expanding >default 256 limit. I just commit manpage with proper description. The FD_SETSIZE hack is a good reason for fixing the inclusion of by other headers. The following headers include it: a.out.h, curses.h, db.h, fcntl.h, histedit.h, pcap.h, pwd.h, resolv.h, signal.h (fixed in my version), stdio.h (fixed in my version), unistd.h sys/fcntl.h, param.h, sys/resource.h, sys/scsiio.h, sys/wait.h So the select manpage should say that FD_SETSIZE must be defined before the inclusion of _any_ header if a different value is required. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 03:13:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09340 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:13:28 -0700 Received: from galactica.galactica.it (galactica.galactica.it [192.106.152.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09333 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:13:07 -0700 Received: from galactic.UUCP (root@localhost) by galactica.galactica.it (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id LAA12239 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:59:50 +0200 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Recompile kernel From: davide.tome'@galactica.it (DAVIDE TOME') Message-ID: <8A6C2D1.0001023C94.uuout@galactica.it> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 95 12:01:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATION - ++39-2-29.00.61.50 Reply-To: davide.tome'@galactica.it (DAVIDE TOME') X-Mailreader: PCBoard Version 15.21 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.10 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'd like to use pppd but when i run it, it says that my system does not support PPP ...... (I have the GENERIC kernel from distribution) ... have I to recompile the kernel ??? If Yes, which is the right procedure to do it ???? Ciao Davide Dott. Davide Tome' ------------------------------------------------- Internet .....: davide@galactica.it Fido..........: 2:331/358 davide tome' WWW...........: http://www.galactica.it Galactica BBS.: +39-2-29006058 (24H 64 lines r.a) Voce..........: +39-2-29006150 Fax...........: +39-2-29006153 ------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 03:14:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09351 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:14:34 -0700 Received: from tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (root@tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.81]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09345 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:14:27 -0700 Received: from papa.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ([131.159.8.79]) by tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <26473-3>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:11:20 +0200 Received: by papa.informatik.tu-muenchen.de id <42270>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:11:10 +0200 From: Thomas Roell To: hasty@star-gate.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Message-Id: <95Apr4.121110met_dst.42270@papa.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:11:00 +0200 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>> Terry Lambert said: > > > > I think I could argue against the VM86() story from another angle > > as well; a VM86() call to video BIOS is no more likely to be able > > to restore from a wierd video mode than a BIOS call would be able > > to reset 16550 serial ports out of FIFO mode. In other words, the > > BIOS might not know how to reset the modes, or if it does, it > > might not know how to reset everything that needs to be reset if > > the mode wasn't established using the BIOS in the first place. > >Hmm... >The above is a bit of speculation and it solely dependent upon the >BIOS implementation. We could change the X server to make VM86 call >to set the vga resolution or the call could be issue from the console >driver and it will save a lot of headaches;additionally >we could provide and option to use the current mode setting in the >X server for those rare exquisite moments in which someone wants to >play with vga sync parameters ... > > Now all what we need is the VM86 call :) Intresting idea. I have tried this for our X-Server about 2 years ago. That's why the internal architecture looks so much different than any other X-Server ;-) Was also able to use SVPMI for initialisation ;-) Now to the problems with calling the BIOS under a VM86 mode: 1/ You MUST have a full VBE implementation in the EPROM. Without that you cannot do anything beyond 640x480. 2/ You MUST be able to read the BIOS under all circumstances. This is very difficult given the many broken cards out there, which have some problems reading the bios, while the processor is in protected mode. The mach64 based ISA boards are such bad examples. 3/ You can only use the BIOS for setting/unsetting graphics modes. Since most of the BIOSes only setup things for plain memory mapped framebuffer acesses you have to do a significant amount of postprocessing to get the graphics engine into accelerated mode. Of course you have to workaround dozens of wrong set bits due to either BIOS bugs, or a unintended usage of them for accelerated modes. Worse, you have to restore all those bits again by hand when you want to go back to text mode. To make things even worse, the dumb framebuffer modes normally have a different scanline-pitch than the one you need for the graphics accelerator. Hence it's basically impossible to use the BIOS for accelerated modes if you still want to have an advantage over directly setting the graphics mode by hand. 4/ There is often no way to set the screen refresh rate, or even to query it. Most VBE BIOSes hence are very conservative and offer you only interlaced modes bejond 800x600. 5/ Many routines that set graphics modes are inherently timing dependant. That means a outb() is assumed to take a fixed known amount of time. If this takes to much time then the routine will fail. Since under VM86 you have to emulate the in/out stuff in your VM86-Monitor, this behaviour is not guaranteed. This fact will break programming of programmable clocks or similar stuff. 6/ For whatever you do with VM86, you loose around 1MB virtual memory (aehm +64k of highmem or whatever this was called). Out of those you need around 16k for the BIOS RAM area plus 32k+64k for mapping the things. So you loose around 128k of memory for just doing that. 7/ The current XF**K86 architecture is completely unusable for a VBE mode-setting. They work with explicite state-saves/restores. With VBE you rather have SetText and SetGraphics instead. Also if you start using VBE you have to use the BIOS also for doing banking and manipulating the CLUT. Very tricky ... 8/ Implementing VBE calls in the server itself is kind of risky, since you might overwrite the copied bios by a mad running server. And this could do quite some harm. But implementing VBE calls in a seperated daemon, like SCO does makes banking expensive, unless you go back to do banking in a graphics chip dependant way. Summararing said, VBE calles under VM86 are not a very good idea. It's only usable for dumb framebuffer drivers. And it has serious limitation. What I have been thinking of is to simply write a 8086 emulator, so I don't need the VM86 handling anymore, which is not implemented everywhere. However this would be a major task, and I doubt that it buys you a lot of advantage over just writing a driver. - Thomas From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 03:32:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09608 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:32:04 -0700 Received: from sovcom.kiae.su (sovcom.kiae.su [144.206.136.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA09594 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:31:52 -0700 Received: by sovcom.kiae.su id AA02240 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:47:25 +0400 Received: by sovcom.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 4 Apr 95 13:47:22 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA01205; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:41:24 +0400 To: Sujal Patel , Steven Wallace Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <199504040742.AA15813@balboa.eng.uci.edu> In-Reply-To: <199504040742.AA15813@balboa.eng.uci.edu>; from Steven Wallace at Tue, 04 Apr 1995 00:42:37 -0700 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:41:23 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 18 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 733 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504040742.AA15813@balboa.eng.uci.edu> Steven Wallace writes: >Perhaps in the kernel sound code, we should have SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE >accept both _IOWR and _IOR types for backwards broken compatability. >What do you guys think? I disagree. _IOWR is incorrect type and not need to be supported. As Hannu says himeslf, old binaries not supposed to work witn new driver, especially it is true for latest voxware v3.0. h -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 03:34:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09645 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:34:01 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA09639 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:33:53 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA13835 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:58:08 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 4 Apr 95 13:58:02 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA01368; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:55:42 +0400 To: Amancio Hasty , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, Sujal Patel , swallace@ece.uci.edu References: <8390.796988216@freefall.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <8390.796988216@freefall.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Tue, 04 Apr 1995 02:36:56 -0700 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:55:42 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1150 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <8390.796988216@freefall.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >> Just my thoughts.... >> >> Lets try not to distribute the new sound driver till we know that it >> works. >Sounds good to me! In fact, that almost seems like a *management* >decision! You did that very well! So well, in fact, that I think we >should elect you Audio Czar and stand back while you and Jim champion >the cause of truly cool audio support in FreeBSD! Andrew's busy, and >since you're looking so... managerial.. I just thought it seemed >a natural fit! :-) >What do the rest of you think? Amancio for Audio Czar? Yes! Rah! >Rah! Rah! Speach! Speach! :-) :-) I agree. P.S. for Amancio: Recent news: Hannu finally says OK! to my patch and apply it. It seems that best way to feed patches to him is send them while he don't make many changes yet. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 03:44:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09821 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:44:55 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09811 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 03:44:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA05976; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 02:37:42 GMT Message-Id: <199504040237.CAA05976@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Thomas Roell cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 12:11:00 +0200." <95Apr4.121110met_dst.42270@papa.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 02:37:41 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Thomas Roell said: Thanks for the info! Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 04:05:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA10099 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 04:05:07 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA10090 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 04:04:51 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA18359; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:58:42 +1000 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:58:42 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504041058.UAA18359@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: smpatel@wam.umd.edu, swallace@ece.uci.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> On Linux (same VoxWare drivers), this code fragment runs through ok. On >> FreeBSD, the GETBLKSIZE returns 0 causing the Error. >> >Take a look: >*** /usr/src-2.0/sys/i386/include/soundcard.h Mon Nov 14 06:13:13 1994 >--- /sys/i386/include/soundcard.h Wed Mar 8 13:19:01 1995 >... old>! #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOWR('P', 4, int) new>! #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOR('P', 4, int) This was broken on 1995/02/13. >Perhaps in the kernel sound code, we should have SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE >accept both _IOWR and _IOR types for backwards broken compatability. >What do you guys think? The old, broken ioctl must be preserved until you are sure that there are no applications using it, i.e., "forever". Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 04:08:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA10167 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 04:08:23 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA10153 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 04:08:15 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06179 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 06:02:54 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA05075; 4 Apr 95 05:53:49 CDT (Tue) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA05072; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:53:49 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504041053.FAA05072@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: My contribution to the html bloatathon.. To: spaz@u.washington.edu (John Utz) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:53:48 -0500 (CDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "John Utz" at Apr 4, 95 00:29:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 399 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If there is an interest in shipping a html browser as part of the > release, may i suggest chimera? It is small ( 274k ), functional, has a > non threatening looking copyright, and is built entirely with Athena > widgets. This means that it is not the prettiest thing going, but one > gets a simple browser that gets the job done. If you use Xaw3d instead of Xaw it's quite pretty as well. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 04:50:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA10920 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 04:50:11 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA10914 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 04:50:04 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA16209 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:43:42 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:43:41 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA01972; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:44:13 +0400 To: Bruce Evans , smpatel@wam.umd.edu, swallace@ece.uci.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <199504041058.UAA18359@godzilla.zeta.org.au> In-Reply-To: <199504041058.UAA18359@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from Bruce Evans at Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:58:42 +1000 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:44:12 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 20 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 873 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504041058.UAA18359@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: >>Perhaps in the kernel sound code, we should have SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE >>accept both _IOWR and _IOR types for backwards broken compatability. >>What do you guys think? >The old, broken ioctl must be preserved until you are sure that there >are no applications using it, i.e., "forever". Can we claim old binaries support even if original author (Hannu) claims just opposite thing? Really? There is too many changes in each voxware version beside this ioctl which prevents running old binaries. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 05:02:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA11109 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:02:21 -0700 Received: from vm.gmd.de (vm.gmd.de [192.88.97.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA11103 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:02:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199504041202.FAA11103@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from VM.GMD.DE by vm.gmd.de (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2841; Tue, 04 Apr 95 13:42:03 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin MAILER@ESOC) by VM.GMD.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0164; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:42:02 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin VCAPUANO@ESOC) by VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5608; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:44:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 95 13:36:21 EST From: Vincenzo Capuano Organization: ESA - European Space Agency Subject: DCF77 patch To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see you have updated dcfd.c with my patches. But I do no see the Makefile that went with the patch. Is it intentional ? I am trying to patch xntpd to use DCF77. I am getting this error from an fcntl call: "F_SETOWN" not implemented in the serial driver. Is anybody going to implement it in the sio driver ? Or is it already there as I am not running current ? Thanks, Vincenzo --- Vincenzo Capuano European Space Agency - European Space Operations Centre vcapuano@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 05:08:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA11207 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:08:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA11200; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:08:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Vincenzo Capuano cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DCF77 patch In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 13:36:21 EST." <199504041202.FAA11103@freefall.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 05:08:31 -0700 Message-ID: <11199.796997311@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I see you have updated dcfd.c with my patches. But I do no see the > Makefile that went with the patch. Is it intentional ? We had an attic-clash which prevented me from doing so - thanks for reminding me, geeze! I must have been distracted in the middle of the commit.. I've sent the Makefile off to Rod for special CVS surgery. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 05:10:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA11240 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:10:25 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA11234 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:10:16 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA20038; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:06:26 +1000 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:06:26 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504041206.WAA20038@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: ache@astral.msk.su, bde@zeta.org.au, smpatel@wam.umd.edu, swallace@ece.uci.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>The old, broken ioctl must be preserved until you are sure that there >>are no applications using it, i.e., "forever". >Can we claim old binaries support even if original author (Hannu) claims >just opposite thing? Really? Maybe when we go to the 3.0 version of the sound drivers. I didn't know that the author didn't try to preserve compatibility. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 05:29:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA11521 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:29:51 -0700 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (root@ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA11515 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:29:35 -0700 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA29612 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:28:08 +0200 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA23640; Tue, 4 Apr 95 14:27:20 +0200 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9504041227.AA23640@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: grafx console & DDB To: roell@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Thomas Roell) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 14:27:20 MET DST Cc: hasty@star-gate.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de In-Reply-To: <95Apr4.121110met_dst.42270@papa.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>; from "Thomas Roell" at Apr 4, 95 12:11 pm X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [exellent description of vm86 vs BIOS calls deleted] > Summararing said, VBE calles under VM86 are not a very good idea. It's only > usable for dumb framebuffer drivers. And it has serious limitation. What > I have been thinking of is to simply write a 8086 emulator, so I don't need > the VM86 handling anymore, which is not implemented everywhere. However this > would be a major task, and I doubt that it buys you a lot of advantage > over just writing a driver. > > - Thomas I have to agree with this picture, but I'm not sure how much a 8086 emu would help you (the BIOS might still be buggy, the BIOS may not be readable etc etc). There is a 8086 emu floating around that might serve your purpose, but again I think (as you ) its not worth it. However (getting back to the topic) simply using it in the context of bailing out to DDB on panic situations could be usefull, even if not all combinations of cards etc would work... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 05:39:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA11632 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:39:48 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA11626 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 05:39:46 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA02403; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:39:17 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:39:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: Steven Wallace cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: <199504040742.AA15813@balboa.eng.uci.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Steven Wallace wrote: > As you can see, SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE has been changed from _IOWR to > _IOR, so old binaries compiled with _IOWR will not be able to find > the ioctl, causing the error to be displayed. You can change it > back and then recompile your kernel and the old binaries should work. > So it is SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE that is causing you probs, not > SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT. If you compile using a -current kernel > but still have old to compile the program, > they won't match and it will still not work. I still don't think it's working: FreeBSD ------- [smpatel:xi] [0:~]> cat test.c #include #ifdef __FreeBSD__ #include #else #include #endif main () { int blksize, frag, dsp; dsp = open ("/dev/dsp"); blksize = 0; frag = 0x00080007; ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT, &frag); ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE, &blksize); if (!blksize) printf ("Error: Couldn't Get Block Size\n"); } [smpatel:xi] [0:~]> cc test.c [smpatel:xi] [0:~]> a.out Error: Couldn't Get Block Size [smpatel:xi] [32:~]> grep BLKSIZE /usr/include/machine/soundcard.h #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOR('P', 4, int) #define SNDCTL_DSP_SETBLKSIZE _IOW('P', 4, int) #define SOUND_PCM_SETBLKSIZE SNDCTL_DSP_SETBLKSIZE [smpatel:xi] [0:~]> grep Id /usr/include/machine/soundcard.h * $Id: soundcard.h,v 1.12 1995/03/08 18:43:49 ugen Exp $ Linux (IOCTL should behave the same) ------------------------------------ linux:23) ~>cat test.c #include #ifdef __FreeBSD__ #include #else #include #endif main () { int blksize, frag, dsp; dsp = open ("/dev/dsp"); blksize = 0; frag = 0x00080007; ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT, &frag); ioctl(dsp, SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE, &blksize); if (!blksize) printf ("Error: Couldn't Get Block Size\n"); } linux:24) ~>cc test.c linux:25) ~>a.out linux:26) ~>grep BLKSIZE /usr/src/linux/include/linux/soundcard.h #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOWR('P', 4, int) See anything wrong in here? Because I think that since Linux and FreeBSD use the sound driver, that the IOCTLs should behave exactly the same. Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 06:05:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA12154 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 06:05:18 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA12148 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 06:05:09 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA21384; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:59:29 +1000 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:59:29 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504041259.WAA21384@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: VCAPUANO@VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: DCF77 patch Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I am trying to patch xntpd to use DCF77. I am getting this error from >an fcntl call: "F_SETOWN" not implemented in the serial driver. >Is anybody going to implement it in the sio driver ? Or is it already there >as I am not running current ? For ttys, F_SETOWN only works for controlling terminals with the correct session id. Its semantics are broken by being mixed up with POSIX semantics for control terminals. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 07:37:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA13533 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 07:37:53 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA13526 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 07:37:46 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA05873; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:41:16 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:41:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199504041441.IAA05873@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Amancio Hasty , "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" , Sujal Patel , hackers@FreeBSD.org, swallace@ece.uci.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: <8390.796988216@freefall.cdrom.com> References: <199504040124.BAA05156@star-gate.com> <8390.796988216@freefall.cdrom.com> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > Amancio writes: > > Lets try not to distribute the new sound driver till we know that it > > works. > > Sounds good to me! In fact, that almost seems like a *management* > decision! You did that very well! So well, in fact, that I think we > should elect you Audio Czar and stand back while you and Jim champion > the cause of truly cool audio support in FreeBSD! Andrew's busy, and > since you're looking so... managerial.. I just thought it seemed > a natural fit! :-) > > What do the rest of you think? Amancio for Audio Czar? Yes! Rah! > Rah! Rah! Speach! Speach! :-) :-) Go for it Amancio!!!! We're all behind you in this. (note the key word behind) *grin* Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 08:07:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA14073 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:07:23 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA14067 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:07:21 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id KAA03450; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:06:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:06:52 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504041506.KAA03450@plains.nodak.edu> To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Content-Length: 362 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > but since we'll be governed by US laws > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > You may choose to be be governed by US Laws, > but do NOT include me in your choice ! you will be assimulated; resistance is futile. your culture will be melded for the betterment of the collective. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 08:16:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA14171 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:16:24 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA14165 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:16:22 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id KAA04634; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:15:50 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:15:50 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504041515.KAA04634@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jrb@cs.pdx.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Content-Length: 204 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk the Media Vision Computer Eyes (a slow, slow, slow card) has drivers and grabber to run with nv today. If you can wait until sometime in summer, there should be much better cards to choose from. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 08:53:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA14664 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:53:45 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA14658 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:53:43 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id LAA06877; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:50:54 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: Mark Tinguely cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504041506.KAA03450@plains.nodak.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Mark Tinguely wrote: > > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > > but since we'll be governed by US laws > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > You may choose to be be governed by US Laws, > > but do NOT include me in your choice ! > > you will be assimulated; resistance is futile. your culture will > be melded for the betterment of the collective. assimilation? yes. good. please pick a life role from the list. only one each. then out the door on left. thank you. next, please (apologies to 'life of brian') Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:22:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15568 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:22:02 -0700 Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15562 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:21:59 -0700 Received: from [192.245.33.12] by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id NAA07727; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:52:04 -0400 X-Sender: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:23:37 -0500 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: mtaylor@gateway.cybernet.com (Mark J. Taylor) Subject: Re: Removeable media support Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I found several old mailing lists messages pertaining to using a >> Syquest removeable drive and an Iomega floptical with FreeBSD. Are >> there any quirks to their operation? I assume I can just stick in a >> cartridge with a proper filesystem and mount it? My Apple IIGS should >> be arriving in my hands sometime next week after clearing customs in >> Taiwan, and I'm thinking of connecting it's PLI floptical drive to the >> FreeBSD box. No particular reason, just want to try it out. Anyone >> else using this piece of hardware? > >As an aside, I'd just like to say that I've been running a re-badged >IBM 650 MB Magneto-Optical drive under NetBSD 1.0A for the last month, >with absolutely no problems - my small 4-line "fix" to get sd to >recognise removable media has been in the sources for a while. > >Quicker than tape, more robust, and neat, neat, neat... > >Cheers, >Alistair >-- >Alistair G. Crooks (agc@uts.amdahl.com) +44 125 234 6377 >Amdahl European HQ, Dogmersfield Park, Hartley Wintney, Hants RG27 8TE, UK. >[These are only my opinions, and certainly not those of Amdahl Corporation] At $100 (US) a disk, it is more expensive. MO technology: $100 ------ = $0.15 per megabyte. 650 Mb 4mm DAT tape technology: $20 ------ = $8 per gigabyte = $0.0078 per megabyte 2.5 Gb But, MO technology is MUCH MUCH faster than tape, and looks just like another SCSI hard drive. -Mark Taylor mtaylor@cybernet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:30:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15670 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:30:37 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15660 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:30:28 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA11837 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:39:39 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA13321 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:30:23 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA20648 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:20:06 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA00347 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:45:54 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504032045.WAA00347@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: backquote (`) on UKKEYMAP To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 22:45:54 +1596657 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 486 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simple question: on my UK keyboard I have a key with '|' and '`' left of the number '1' key. Why is the ` mapped to alt-1 iso to this key or alt-this key ? inquiring minds want to know... _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:30:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15678 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:30:41 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15663 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:30:34 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA11831; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:39:33 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA13302 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:30:05 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA20639 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:19:59 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA01885; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:05:08 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504031905.VAA01885@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 21:05:08 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504021655.JAA01937@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 2, 95 09:55:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 846 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM caches. This works quite nicely. > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:30:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15687 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:30:50 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15680 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:30:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA07883; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 09:24:33 GMT Message-Id: <199504040924.JAA07883@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: Sujal Patel cc: Steven Wallace , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 08:39:17 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 09:24:31 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Sujal Patel said: > > On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Steven Wallace wrote: > > > As you can see, SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE has been changed from _IOWR to > > _IOR, so old binaries compiled with _IOWR will not be able to find > > the ioctl, causing the error to be displayed. You can change it > > back and then recompile your kernel and the old binaries should work. > > So it is SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE that is causing you probs, not > > SNDCTL_DSP_SETFRAGMENT. If you compile using a -current kernel > > but still have old to compile the program, > > they won't match and it will still not work. > > I still don't think it's working: > Do you have your application available? I will like to try it out myself over here and to make sure that it works V30. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:35:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA15858 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:35:03 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA15852 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:35:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA00153 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:23:14 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504041723.TAA00153@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: swap always use at least 64KB ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:23:14 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 839 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I noticed this on snap950210, but didn't pay too much attention to it. Now (snap950322) I decided to enable swap to a file, created /dev/vn0*, did vnconfig -e /dev/vn0b myfile swap and, surprise surprise, swapinfo says: 1K blocks Used /dev/wd0b 65536 64 /dev/vn0b 1280 64 which is kind of curious, as the machine has 16 MB ram and almost no activity going on... Swap partition, when in use, are always reported with at least 64 KB in use. Is there any explaination ? Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:36:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA16217 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:36:51 -0700 Received: from balboa.eng.uci.edu (balboa.eng.uci.edu [128.200.61.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA16200; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:36:47 -0700 Received: from localhost.uci.edu by balboa.eng.uci.edu with SMTP id AA05679 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for jkh@freebsd.org); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:35:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199504041735.AA05679@balboa.eng.uci.edu> To: smpatel@wam.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.org, hasty@star-gate.com Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 20:58:42 +1000." <199504041058.UAA18359@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 10:35:48 -0700 From: Steven Wallace Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> On Linux (same VoxWare drivers), this code fragment runs through ok. On >>> FreeBSD, the GETBLKSIZE returns 0 causing the Error. >>> >>Take a look: >>*** /usr/src-2.0/sys/i386/include/soundcard.h Mon Nov 14 06:13:13 1994 >>--- /sys/i386/include/soundcard.h Wed Mar 8 13:19:01 1995 >>... > old>! #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOWR('P', 4, int) > new>! #define SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE _IOR('P', 4, int) > > This was broken on 1995/02/13. > >>Perhaps in the kernel sound code, we should have SNDCTL_DSP_GETBLKSIZE >>accept both _IOWR and _IOR types for backwards broken compatability. >>What do you guys think? > > The old, broken ioctl must be preserved until you are sure that there > are no applications using it, i.e., "forever". > See, I told you this was the case. The sound driver is not broken, just compatability. I think we should back out this change and leave it as _IOWR instead of _IOR so everybody doesn't think the sound code is broken and blame me (: I think we should look at v3.0 code, but carefully consider it before integrating it in the tree. I think we should wait until after 2.1R before upgrading to v3.0. It appears that we do not have people testing the sound code well enough if it takes them two months to notice this incompatability issue. Steven From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:37:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA16345 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:37:34 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA16339 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:37:32 -0700 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01697; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:37:01 -0500 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Tue, 4 Apr 95 12:36 CDT Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Tue, 4 Apr 95 12:36 CDT Message-Id: From: fredriks@mcs.com (Lars Fredriksen) Subject: Re: Configuration database (was Re: Changed information for PR misc/278) To: dfr@nlsys.demon.co.uk (Doug Rabson) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:36:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bakul@netcom.com, wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Mar 31, 95 09:32:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1283 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Doug Rabson writes: > > > Smells a lot like AIX ;-) > > Seriously though, I quite liked AIX sys admin after I got used to that > funny SMIT thing. It had basically exactly this aproach of an OO > database from which old-style configuration files were generated. > Please don't implement this the same way AIX did. They use a binary database with NO documented interface to support this, and if you ever get this DB out of whack, you are in serious trouble... Their sysadmin tool is nice for a novice sysadm, but again if your passwd file gets corrupted, you will have a tough time figuring out that this is the reason the tool will not do what you asked. The AIX tool is only a harness that calls all the underlying config tools, but it doesn't support all options to the underlying tools so you end up having to use them afterall. Anyway, one thing that AIX learnt is that support of diskless workstations gets 100% more complex once you introduce such a database.. I am not saying that we shouldn't have a configuration database, only that it has to be done carefully and well! Lars -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lars Fredriksen fredriks@mcs.com (home) lars@fredriks.pr.mcs.net (home-home) fredriks@asiago.cs.wisc.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 10:40:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA16547 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:40:47 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA16537 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:40:44 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA07705; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 09:38:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504041638.JAA07705@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: DCF77 patch To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: VCAPUANO@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11199.796997311@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 4, 95 05:08:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 615 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I see you have updated dcfd.c with my patches. But I do no see the > > Makefile that went with the patch. Is it intentional ? > > We had an attic-clash which prevented me from doing so - thanks for reminding > me, geeze! I must have been distracted in the middle of the commit.. > I've sent the Makefile off to Rod for special CVS surgery. And I am in hacking on the Makefile, it has a DESTDIR= in it which is not to ever be set in a Makefile :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 11:23:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA18680 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:23:03 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18672 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:22:59 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA07847; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:20:52 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504041720.KAA07847@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504031905.VAA01885@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 3, 95 09:05:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1199 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, > > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. > > And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM > caches. This works quite nicely. And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I was talking about. Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. Humm.. wonder why no one is doing parrallel transfer SCSI drives, seems it would be easy to use 2 of the heads at once in a drive to effectivly double the drive electronics to media transfer rate. This could all be hidden in the drive electronics giving us disk drives that would be just as reliable and have 2x the transfer rate they currently do. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 11:27:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA18912 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:27:18 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18896 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:27:14 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id LAA23607 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:26:51 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504041826.LAA23607@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: 9-track tape To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:26:50 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 387 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! I'm trying to finish up some work on a 9-track tape driver I've neglected for too long :-( Can anyone point me at an appropriate reference for this stuff? Unfortunately, they are sufficiently unique that other drivers just don't seem to address many of the issues. What I'd like *most* is a copy of a specification outlining the Pertec interface... Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 11:28:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA18937 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:28:09 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18931 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:28:07 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA05111 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:27:08 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504041827.LAA05111@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: new install(1) utility To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:27:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1195 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've rewritten install(1) to include the following options: (1) -S -- Symlink are created instead of moving (copying) the file. (2) -t -- Preserve the timestamp of the source file on target file. (3) -z -- Compress the file with gzip and retain the `.gz' extension. (4) -Z -- Compress the file with gzip and remove the extention. The symlink feature may be useful for creating symlinks, for example, from /usr/share/man to point into the source tree. The timestamp feature may be useful in keeping things (such as includes) in sync. (3) allows `install -z -o bin -g bin -m 644 znew.1 /usr/share/man/man1' which generated /usr/share/man/man1/znew.1.gz (4) allows people with disk-space-impaired systems to install compressed binaries. If you do this, you need to know the RAMifications. I also updated the error handling of the previous install. All previous options are supported. If there is any interest in this work, I'll put the source up for FTP. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 11:43:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA19625 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:43:52 -0700 Received: from ns.dknet.dk (root@ns.dknet.dk [193.88.44.42]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA19615 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:43:47 -0700 Received: from login.dknet.dk by ns.dknet.dk with SMTP id AA20543 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for ); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:43:13 +0200 Received: by login.dknet.dk (4.1/SMI-4.1DKnet00) id AA06317; Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:41:45 +0200 From: sos@login.dknet.dk (S|ren Schmidt) Message-Id: <9504041841.AA06317@login.dknet.dk> Subject: Re: backquote (`) on UKKEYMAP To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:41:44 MET DST Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504032045.WAA00347@yedi.iaf.nl>; from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 3, 95 10:45 pm X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Simple question: on my UK keyboard I have a key with '|' and '`' left > of the number '1' key. Why is the ` mapped to alt-1 iso to this key or > alt-this key ? could you please ask that a bit more accurate, I do not understand what you mean here.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@login.dknet.dk) FreeBSD Core Team So much code to hack -- so little time .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 11:46:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA19673 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:46:22 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19663 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:46:13 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA06820; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:49:30 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:49:30 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504041849.MAA06820@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Steven G Kargl "new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 11:27am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Steven G Kargl , freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (2) -t -- Preserve the timestamp of the source file on target file. Is the check done within install to see if the source file is the same as the target file? If we are going to be pulling out information on the original file, it seems to be the best solution to do the check inside install. I would also make the Makefiles more clean. :-) > The timestamp feature may be useful in keeping things (such as includes) > in sync. If it does the work for us I think it could be very useful. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 11:50:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA19746 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:50:44 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19740 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:50:43 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA03075; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:49:22 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504041849.LAA03075@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504041720.KAA07847@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 10:20:52 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1614 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, > > > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > > > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > > > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. > > > > And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM > > caches. This works quite nicely. > > And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained > write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I > was talking about. In practice it is much more that 20%. I saw numbers in the 50% range for Veritas' RAID5 implementation, which is a pretty good one. > Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some > price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. Actually, you can consider mirroring a good combination. I have seen an almost 80% speedup on a "best effort mirroring" implementation. > Humm.. wonder why no one is doing parrallel transfer SCSI drives, seems > it would be easy to use 2 of the heads at once in a drive to effectivly > double the drive electronics to media transfer rate. This could all > be hidden in the drive electronics giving us disk drives that would > be just as reliable and have 2x the transfer rate they currently do. IBM does. They have a 5.25" device which is really two 3.5" responding as one LU. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 11:57:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA19854 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:57:54 -0700 Received: from cs.sunysb.edu (sbcs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA19848 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:57:52 -0700 Received: from sbgrad9.csdept (sbgrad9.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.2.29]) by cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA06405 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:57:27 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:57:27 -0400 From: Michael Vernick Message-Id: <199504041857.OAA06405@cs.sunysb.edu> Received: by sbgrad9.csdept (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15807; Tue, 4 Apr 95 14:57:12 EDT To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: PCI/EISA/ISA performance Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone have any performance results comparing the three types of buses? I'm interested in disk I/O performance and/or network I/O performance using the three buses and DMA. Also, someone mentioned that the DEC DE500-XA network card is being supported. Is it a PCI 100Mb/Sec card? Michael Vernick From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 12:00:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19938 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:00:50 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19932 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:00:48 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id MAA25160 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:00:24 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504041900.MAA25160@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: FlexBoot (fwd) To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:00:24 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2286 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Don't know if anyone should be aware of this (apologies for wasted bandwidth, if not): Forwarded message: > From mach4-request@schirf.cs.utah.edu Tue Apr 4 11:54:07 1995 > From: erich@uruk.org > Message-Id: <199504041808.LAA06875@uruk.org> > X-Authentication-Warning: uruk.org: Host loopback didn't use HELO protocol > To: baford@schirf.cs.utah.edu > cc: multiboot@schirf.cs.utah.edu, mach4-users@schirf.cs.utah.edu, > davidg@implode.root.com > Subject: FlexBoot > Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 11:08:28 -0700 > Sender: erich@uruk.org > > I'm writing a flexible boot-loader (standalone only at the moment). So > far the MBR/stage 1 loader, called "FlexMBR", is complete, and I'm working > on the second stage loader, called "FlexBoot", which will be compliant > with the MultiBoot standard that Bryan Ford is working on. (Utah's Mach4 > will also comply to this standard, for those interested, it is a multi-module > loading standard) > > The stage 1 is independent of the stage 2, so could be used for other > projects if one chose to do so. It allows loading in *very* large > multi-blocklist hunks of code into specified (possibly non-contiguous) > areas of memory (still real-mode i386, though, so under 512K is best, > under 1MB is required), and jumping into a specified address after > completing the loads. This all fits into the normal 1 sector (512 byte) > size limits. > > The stage2 will be a full 32-bit flat-memory model with BIOS call support > built in, multiple filesystem support, ability to read multiple modules > from different devices/partitions/filesystems for the same boot process, > and a user-interface that both supports a host of easy-to-use presets > and an expressive mechanism to specify (or re-specify for the presets) > any options or modules that are desired. > > An alpha version will be available reasonably soon, I'll keep this list > posted. > > (good documentation is a strong goal here) > > Erich Boleyn > > -- > Erich Stefan Boleyn \___ E-mail (preferred): > Mad Genius wanna-be, CyberMuffin \____ home #: +1 (503) 226-0741 > WWW Site | USnail: 924 S.W. 16th Ave, #202 > Motto: "I'll live forever or die trying" \ Portland, OR, USA 97205 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 12:14:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20391 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:14:36 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20385 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:14:34 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA05237; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:13:27 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504041913.MAA05237@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504041849.MAA06820@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 12:49:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1326 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Nate Williams: > > > (2) -t -- Preserve the timestamp of the source file on target file. > > Is the check done within install to see if the source file is the same > as the target file? If we are going to be pulling out information on > the original file, it seems to be the best solution to do the check > inside install. I would also make the Makefiles more clean. :-) If I understand your question, then No. I assume you mean that if the target file already exists, does install compare the source and target files before installation? No, the target file is unlinked, then replaced. The timestamp is then adjusted to reflect the timestamp of the original file. I was thinking about the `make depend' step where a newer timestamp on a header file forces a new dependence check. It sounds like you want: if (source exists && target exists) { if (strcmp(source, target) == unique files) { if (cmp(source, target) == same) exit(0); else { do normal installation } Hmmm... this could produce a decent timesavings. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 12:46:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA21325 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:46:25 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21319 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:46:20 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA07029; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:50:08 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:50:08 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504041950.NAA07029@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Steven G Kargl "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 12:13pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Steven G Kargl Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > According to Nate Williams: > > > > > (2) -t -- Preserve the timestamp of the source file on target file. > > > > Is the check done within install to see if the source file is the same > > as the target file? If we are going to be pulling out information on > > the original file, it seems to be the best solution to do the check > > inside install. I would also make the Makefiles more clean. :-) > > If I understand your question, then No. I assume you mean that if the > target file already exists, does install compare the source and target > files before installation? No, the target file is unlinked, then replaced. This could cause dependency problems if the source and target files are not the same. > The timestamp is then adjusted to reflect the timestamp of the original > file. I was thinking about the `make depend' step where a newer timestamp > on a header file forces a new dependence check. The timestamp changes because a new file is written over an older (but still the same) file. > It sounds like you want: > > if (source exists && target exists) { > if (strcmp(source, target) == unique files) { > if (cmp(source, target) == same) > exit(0); > else { > do normal installation > } > > Hmmm... this could produce a decent timesavings. Yes, this would in effect do the same thing as the -t option you have now and save a tremendous amount of re-linking of files since the timestamps would not change. Again, this should be a new option, but if it works well it could become a standard install option for those folks who are doing development. For normal use the 'cmp' step shouldn't be used since it will slow down the install process and generally speaking the file should be installed. This would also make incremental updates easier to produce, since only those files which have changes will have different timestamps if someone where to keep a 2.0 tree around. Basically, someone could then do a make install in a fully 2.1 compiled tree and then check to see which files have been modified, and use them for the binary upgarde kit. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 13:07:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA21800 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:07:18 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA21541 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:00:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA21167; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:56:30 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id VAA00311 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:56:30 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA11387 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:27:58 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504041827.UAA11387@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: NMI message To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:27:56 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504040353.UAA24847@seagull.rtd.com> from "Don Yuniskis" at Apr 3, 95 08:53:38 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2258 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Don Yuniskis wrote: > > NMI... going to debugger > kernel: type 19 trap, code=0 > shall I assume this was an intermittent parity error (system had been > up for 40 days or so...) like maybe a Vcc glitch or alpha particle, etc.? Forget the alpha particles unless you have ceramics packaged RAMs. :) [*] > Haven't dug out any schematics, etc. but I suspect parity is the only > thing that would yank on NMI (looked like CPU was doing a memory to memory > transfer at the time ... possibly faulting in a page, etc.) It's perhaps only a glitch. However, parity fail is not the only reason that can cause an NMI. The second common reason is the ISA signal IOCHCK. Any card on the bus can assert this signal. There's a register (0x62) to indicate which caused the NMI (0x80 -> RAM parity failure, 0x40 -> I/O channel check). There are some minor anomalities. E.g., my (old) notebook asserts NMI at power fail (battery low, or loss of external power), without setting one of the bits in register 0x62. I've symdeb'ed thru its BIOS, but didn't find any reasonable logic how to determine between parity fail and power fail for it. (I'm running FreeBSD on it, but have modified the NMI routine to simply beep instead of panic.) [*] The alpha particle story. Back in old days where RAMs have been rather expensive, they've also been packaged in expensive ceramics cases (with metal plate and gold contacts). Unfortunately, all the ceramics materials do contain minor contaminations by metals like barium, which are slightly radioactive, and emit a very low alpha radiation. Since alpha particles are helium nuclei, they do only have a low penetrance. The usual workaround has been to cover the die by a small piece of a plastics foil, this was sufficient to adsorb the helium nuclei. (If an alpha particle broke through, it was sufficient to kill the whole charge of a dRAM capacitor, at least for RAMs >= 64 kbit.) Naturally, plastics packages do not emit alpha particles themselves, and they are thick enough to even adsorb much larger amounts of alpha radiation, so this is a non-issue these days. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 13:22:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA22354 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:22:04 -0700 Received: from slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU [138.67.1.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA22348 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:21:58 -0700 Received: by slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA43407; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:21:30 -0600 From: mbarkah@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Ade Barkah) Message-Id: <9504042021.AA43407@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU> Subject: kinfo*.h missing To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:21:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 457 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The include files kinfo.h and kinfo_proc.h are missing from FreeBSD 2.0-R and -current. May I ask why and if it will be added to 2.1 ? Thanks in advance, -Ade Barkah ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Head of Development, Renaissance Knowledge Systems, Ltd., Englewood, CO Inet: mbarkah@rksys.com - HEMISPHERE ON LINE - www: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 13:43:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA22901 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:43:30 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA22892 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:43:21 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18362; Tue, 4 Apr 95 14:35:26 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504042035.AA18362@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 14:35:25 MDT Cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504041950.NAA07029@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 01:50:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hmmm... this could produce a decent timesavings. > > Yes, this would in effect do the same thing as the -t option you have > now and save a tremendous amount of re-linking of files since the > timestamps would not change. Bah humbug. The problem is improper dependency graphs in the makefile. And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a cockamamy way to fix it. Much better (if one must hack on install) to cause intermediately created directories when installing a target to be owned by the specified user and group instead of being owned by the installer (hint: this would fix a number of X install problems). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 13:49:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA23018 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:49:26 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23005 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 13:49:17 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id QAA00922; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:48:45 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504042048.QAA00922@hda.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504041720.KAA07847@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 10:20:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1461 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > > > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, > > > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > > > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > > > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. > > > > And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM > > caches. This works quite nicely. > > And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained > write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I > was talking about. > > Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some > price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. I'm not sure what you mean here. You don't always need to suffer the performance loss if you're willing to suffer with the data density loss. With a fast channel to the array and dedicated hardware driving the disks and calculating the parity you should be able to get close to N times the throughput while suffering while losing 1/(N+2) of the potential storage, where N is something like 8 and I'm assuming a parity drive and hot standby. You're paying again but not in throughput, unless you are comparing this with a 10 way stripe. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 14:09:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23481 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:09:47 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23475 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:09:46 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA05566; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:08:38 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504042108.OAA05566@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504042035.AA18362@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 02:35:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1510 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > > > > Hmmm... this could produce a decent timesavings. > > > > Yes, this would in effect do the same thing as the -t option you have > > now and save a tremendous amount of re-linking of files since the > > timestamps would not change. > > Bah humbug. > > The problem is improper dependency graphs in the makefile. > > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > cockamamy way to fix it. > > Much better (if one must hack on install) to cause intermediately > created directories when installing a target to be owned by the > specified user and group instead of being owned by the installer > (hint: this would fix a number of X install problems). > I usually understand about 50% of your postings, but I must really be missing the boat here. How can the creation of an intermediate (temporary) directory, a chown operation on the directory, installation of the file(s) to the intermediate directory, finally installing the file(s) from the intermediate directory to their ultimate destination, and deleting the temporary directory improve the performance of install? I believe Nate (and I) is trying to avoid the (unnecessary) installation procedure if the target file already exists and the source and target are the same. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 14:19:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23668 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:19:54 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23660 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:19:50 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA07372; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:23:19 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:23:19 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042123.PAA07372@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 2:35pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Hmmm... this could produce a decent timesavings. > > > > Yes, this would in effect do the same thing as the -t option you have > > now and save a tremendous amount of re-linking of files since the > > timestamps would not change. > > Bah humbug. > > The problem is improper dependency graphs in the makefile. Huh? Methink you don't understand the problem Mr. Lambert. trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Nov 22 04:38 /usr/include/stdio.h trout:/usr/user/nate % Now, if I got into /usr/src/include and do a 'make install' the date of that file will change due to the install copying the file in /usr/include over top of the old file, even though they are the same file in all respects. Now, we have trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Apr 4 15:19 /usr/include/stdio.h trout:/usr/user/nate % And any program which has stdio.h in it's dependency lists will need to be recompiled. > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > cockamamy way to fix it. It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. > Much better (if one must hack on install) to cause intermediately > created directories when installing a target to be owned by the > specified user and group instead of being owned by the installer > (hint: this would fix a number of X install problems). This is orthogonal to the entire discussion, and why you are bringing it up is beyond me. Have you been talking with J. Monroy lately? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 14:41:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA24037 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:41:59 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24031 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:41:58 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA12675; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:40:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199504042140.OAA12675@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte), peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 10:20:52 PDT." <199504041720.KAA07847@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 14:40:04 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, >> > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than >> > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how >> > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. >> >> And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM >> caches. This works quite nicely. > >And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained >write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I >was talking about. Is this still true with hardware parity calculation? >Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some >price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. > ... >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 14:46:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA24066 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:46:34 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA24060; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:46:30 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA14853 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:42:44 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 5 Apr 95 01:42:43 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA03702; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:29:13 +0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, smpatel@wam.umd.edu, Steven Wallace Cc: hasty@star-gate.com, jkh@FreeBSD.org References: <199504041735.AA05679@balboa.eng.uci.edu> In-Reply-To: <199504041735.AA05679@balboa.eng.uci.edu>; from Steven Wallace at Tue, 04 Apr 1995 10:35:48 -0700 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:29:12 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 28 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1268 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504041735.AA05679@balboa.eng.uci.edu> Steven Wallace writes: >See, I told you this was the case. The sound driver is not broken, >just compatability. I think we should back out this change and leave >it as _IOWR instead of _IOR so everybody doesn't think the sound code >is broken and blame me (: >I think we should look at v3.0 code, but carefully consider it before >integrating it in the tree. I think we should wait until after 2.1R >before upgrading to v3.0. It appears that we do not have people testing >the sound code well enough if it takes them two months to notice this >incompatability issue. As Hannu (author) said, version which we currently have broken in several places and they fixed in v3.0. I think we need go to v3.0 instead of hacking broken code. Compatibility: Hannu said: "only source level compatibility". This one ioctl is only small piece, there is many incompatible places, old binaries must be definitely re-compiled. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 14:48:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA24097 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:48:13 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24091 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:48:11 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA03719; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:46:47 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504042146.OAA03719@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504042140.OAA12675@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 4, 95 02:40:04 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 451 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained > >write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I > >was talking about. > > Is this still true with hardware parity calculation? The problem is disk-contention, not CPU-speed. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 14:55:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA24132 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:55:36 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24126 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:55:32 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA07511; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:59:15 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:59:15 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042159.PAA07511@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 2:35pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As long as I'm in a rebutting mood. > Much better (if one must hack on install) to cause intermediately > created directories when installing a target to be owned by the > specified user and group instead of being owned by the installer > (hint: this would fix a number of X install problems). 1) Install doesn't create any intermediate directories. Install doesn't create directories period. (Although NetBSD has added support for that in their version). 2) What X install programs are you talking about? There aren't any permission problems with X that I'm aware of, short of the setuid/setgid requirements for certain programs which makes it difficult to install them as normal users. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:03:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24243 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:03:40 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24232 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:03:35 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA17662 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:58:03 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 5 Apr 95 01:58:02 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id BAA04000; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:56:16 +0400 To: Sujal Patel , Steven Wallace Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org References: In-Reply-To: ; from Sujal Patel at Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:56:15 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 720 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Sujal Patel writes: >See anything wrong in here? Because I think that since Linux and FreeBSD >use the sound driver, that the IOCTLs should behave exactly the same. Linux release currently uses older version of sounddriver, we upgade to somewhat intermediate version. We can switch back to old version of course, but better to move forward to v3.0. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:10:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24356 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:10:01 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24338 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:08:57 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA21163; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:56:29 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id VAA00308; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:56:29 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA00877; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:43:44 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504041743.TAA00877@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: ld.so trauma on the march 22 snap please assist! To: spaz@u.washington.edu (John Utz) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:43:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "John Utz" at Apr 3, 95 08:05:50 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 710 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John Utz wrote: > > g++ -o blackj -g -O2 cards.o debug.o main.o io.o play-hand.o > mira# ./blackj > ld.so failed Huh, i thought someone (Michael Reifenberger?) solved our dynamic linkage-related C++ troubles... > This is the example program that we are supposed to be able to compile > without difficulty using g++. It's not your program. Even a simple ``Hello, world''-style C++ program now fails. :-( > any suggestions would be vastly appreciated!! Until the problems are solved, link your program statically. (i.e., add ``-static'' to the CCFLAGS) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:25:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24580 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:25:56 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24572 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:25:54 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14718(5)>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:19:05 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:18:52 -0700 To: Mark Tinguely cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 11:41:33 PDT." <199504031841.NAA11754@plains.nodak.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:18:39 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr4.151852pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504031841.NAA11754@plains.nodak.edu> you write: >the cisco group has always been idle (at least everytime I popped it open. That's because it's encrypted =) Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:36:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24887 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:36:47 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA24878 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:36:44 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA08422; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:36:04 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504042136.OAA08422@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504042048.QAA00922@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 4, 95 04:48:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2209 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > > > > > > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, > > > > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > > > > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > > > > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. > > > > > > And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM > > > caches. This works quite nicely. > > > > And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained > > write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I > > was talking about. > > > > Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some > > price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. > > I'm not sure what you mean here. You don't always need to suffer the > performance loss if you're willing to suffer with the data density loss. The problem is with RAID to have the reliabilty of any 1 drive going bad means you must write data to at least 2 drives for all write opertions. This means unless you greatly increase the density of your storage by going to mirrors you are going to lose performance. > > With a fast channel to the array and dedicated hardware driving the > disks and calculating the parity you should be able to get close > to N times the throughput while suffering while losing 1/(N+2) of > the potential storage, where N is something like 8 and I'm assuming > a parity drive and hot standby. You'll never get N times the throughput because you always have to write to 2 drives to keep the parity data up, thus your bandwidth increase is more like (N/2). I agree that the time loss for parity calculations is near zero. To achive a N factor performance increase you must go to N * 10 drives using RAID :-(, a very large cost hit. > You're paying again but not in throughput, unless you are comparing this > with a 10 way stripe. A 5 wide stripe will have better performance (N=5) than a 5 drive raid system (N=5/2=2.5). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:40:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA24977 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:40:10 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA24971 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:40:08 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA18778; Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:31:42 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA04351; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:31:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA10697; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:33:32 GMT Message-Id: <199504041833.SAA10697@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Vernick Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 14:57:27 -0400." <199504041857.OAA06405@cs.sunysb.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 18:33:32 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone have any performance results comparing the three types of > buses? I'm interested in disk I/O performance and/or network > I/O performance using the three buses and DMA. As a rule of thumb, PCI > EISA > ISA. > Also, someone mentioned that the DEC DE500-XA network card is being > supported. Is it a PCI 100Mb/Sec card? It is. Just about 10 minutes ago I got de1 rev 17 int a irq 15 on pci0:8 reg20: virtual=0xf1d05100 physical=0x20000100 size=0x80 de1: enabling 10baseT UTP port de1: DC21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.1 ethernet address 08:00:2b:e1:06:07 to work. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:53:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25289 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:53:50 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA25282 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:53:48 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20745; Tue, 4 Apr 95 16:46:59 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504042246.AA20745@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu (Steven G Kargl) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 16:46:58 MDT Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042108.OAA05566@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> from "Steven G Kargl" at Apr 4, 95 02:08:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The problem is improper dependency graphs in the makefile. > > > > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > > cockamamy way to fix it. [ ... ] > I usually understand about 50% of your postings, but I must really be > missing the boat here. How can the creation of an intermediate > (temporary) directory, a chown operation on the directory, installation > of the file(s) to the intermediate directory, finally installing the > file(s) from the intermediate directory to their ultimate destination, > and deleting the temporary directory improve the performance of install? The problem is the need for a .h/installed .h rule. in other words: /usr/include/foo.h: foo.h cp -p foo.h $@ or something similar for each include file in the /usr/src/include makefile. The compare in this case is on the data of the src and target, which is perfectly sufficient to only do the copy in case of a change. If the argument is that a change could occur without a date change, that argument holds true for .o:.c dependencies and program:*.o dependencies as well. Either you are going to keep the date accurately for all things or you can't trust any date. > I believe Nate (and I) is trying to avoid the (unnecessary) installation > procedure if the target file already exists and the source and target > are the same. And dates and dependencies are considered insufficient to resolve this problem? I don't believe it. I really don't see why the creation of an intermediate directory, chown operations, or use of the install command for an install target (just because it happens to be named the same, I suppose) is really necessary for include files. Why is this being built up to be so hard? The only issue I see regarding headers is subverting the default include (and library) path for a cross-compilation environment. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:53:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25297 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:53:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA25290 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:53:51 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA08510; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:52:57 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504042152.OAA08510@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042123.PAA07372@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 03:23:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2500 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > Hmmm... this could produce a decent timesavings. > > > > > > Yes, this would in effect do the same thing as the -t option you have > > > now and save a tremendous amount of re-linking of files since the > > > timestamps would not change. > > > > Bah humbug. > > > > The problem is improper dependency graphs in the makefile. > > Huh? Methink you don't understand the problem Mr. Lambert. > > trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Nov 22 04:38 /usr/include/stdio.h > trout:/usr/user/nate % > > Now, if I got into /usr/src/include and do a 'make install' > the date of that file will change due to the install copying the file in > /usr/include over top of the old file, even though they are the same file > in all respects. I think you better go read /usr/src/include/Makefile: beforeinstall: ${SHARED} @${ECHO} installing ${FILES} @-for i in ${FILES}; do \ cmp -s $$i ${DESTDIR}/usr/include/$$i || \ install -c -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m 444 $$i \ ${DESTDIR}/usr/include/$$i; \ done > Now, we have > > trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Apr 4 15:19 /usr/include/stdio.h > trout:/usr/user/nate % You happened to have picked a bad example. There are include files that this holds true for, and that is due not really having good support in the *.mk files for a includes: rule. I would rather see the above type of thing folded into the .mk files and not muck with the install binary. > And any program which has stdio.h in it's dependency lists will need to > be recompiled. This was fixed long ago, it is other headers that we have problems with this on. And the other nasty one is the libraries, Bruce has already discussed all of this on the mailing lists. > > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > > cockamamy way to fix it. > > It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the > addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to > install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. I think Terry means this: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} ... > > Nate > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:56:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25365 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:56:04 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA25359 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:56:03 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042123.PAA07372@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 03:23:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 647 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Huh? Methink you don't understand the problem Mr. Lambert. > > trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Nov 22 04:38 /usr/include/stdio.h > trout:/usr/user/nate % [...] > > trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Apr 4 15:19 /usr/include/stdio.h > trout:/usr/user/nate % > but if the Makefiles didn't see a reason to update it, then it would be untouched and the same thing would result. what we want is a make rule for X/a -> B/a (i.e. just moving a file) not to mention the trouble we have at the moment with man pages and that #$%^# gzip.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 15:57:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA25412 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:57:45 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA25406 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:57:41 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id SAA01449; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:57:12 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504042257.SAA01449@hda.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504042136.OAA08422@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 02:36:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3569 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > > Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, > > > > > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > > > > > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > > > > > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. > > > > > > > > And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM > > > > caches. This works quite nicely. > > > > > > And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained > > > write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I > > > was talking about. > > > > > > Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some > > > price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. > > > > I'm not sure what you mean here. You don't always need to suffer the > > performance loss if you're willing to suffer with the data density loss. > > The problem is with RAID to have the reliabilty of any 1 drive going > bad means you must write data to at least 2 drives for all write opertions. > > This means unless you greatly increase the density of your storage by > going to mirrors you are going to lose performance. > > > > > With a fast channel to the array and dedicated hardware driving the > > disks and calculating the parity you should be able to get close > > to N times the throughput while suffering while losing 1/(N+2) of > > the potential storage, where N is something like 8 and I'm assuming > > a parity drive and hot standby. > > You'll never get N times the throughput because you always have to > write to 2 drives to keep the parity data up, thus your bandwidth > increase is more like (N/2). I agree that the time loss for parity > calculations is near zero. To achive a N factor performance increase > you must go to N * 10 drives using RAID :-(, a very large cost hit. > > > You're paying again but not in throughput, unless you are comparing this > > with a 10 way stripe. > > A 5 wide stripe will have better performance (N=5) than a 5 drive raid > system (N=5/2=2.5). I've worked with Maximum Strategy's VME disk array and HIPPI disk arrays. The VME system had this sort of setup: |- buffer board--ESDI channel-ESDI drive System--VME---Adapter--+- buffer board--ESDI channel-ESDI drive |... |- buffer board--ESDI channel-ESDI drive The data comes in the VME at about 18MB/s, gets split by the Adapter onto a dedicated bus to the buffer boards (with parity constructed on the fly), and then sent out the ESDI controllers to the drives. The "sector size" coming in the VME was 8 times the drive sector size and split across the 8 drives plus parity. The intention was to get N times the performance for an N way stripe. The HIPPI disk array was a four way stripe of these VME disk arrays. If I remember correctly we got 65MB/s to disk with the HIPPI disk array. Max Strat claimed they could do better than that by connecting two HIPPI arrays back to back for throughput testing. I assume most disk arrays use a similar approach to address throughput. The channel coming in has to be fast, and then everything has to stay out of the way. (The secret to good I/O: Stay out of the way). Does this address your throughput concerns? -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:00:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:00:37 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25450 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:00:34 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA08565; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:59:55 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504042159.OAA08565@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 14:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504042140.OAA12675@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 4, 95 02:40:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1420 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [CC: trimmed] > > >> > >> > RAID does have the negative effect of of having to write 20% more data, > >> > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > >> > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > >> > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. > >> > >> And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM > >> caches. This works quite nicely. > > > >And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained > >write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I > >was talking about. > > Is this still true with hardware parity calculation? It's not the time to caclulate the parity that hurts you, it is the fact that you have to write that 20% extra data some place, and that some place had better not be the drive you wrote the real data to! So in effect all write to a RAID system have to write 2 drives at the same time, meaning for a RAID 5 device your speed improvement is on the order of (N/2) or 5/2 while on a pure stripe system you will get an order of N speed improvement. > >Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some > >price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. > > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:04:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25522 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:04:14 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25514 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:04:13 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20914; Tue, 4 Apr 95 16:55:48 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504042255.AA20914@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 16:55:48 MDT Cc: vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504041833.SAA10697@whydos.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Apr 4, 95 06:33:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone have any performance results comparing the three types of > > buses? I'm interested in disk I/O performance and/or network > > I/O performance using the three buses and DMA. > > As a rule of thumb, PCI > EISA > ISA. Whose thumb are you looking at? 8-). VLB has a speed limit of 40MHz (typical cards die > 33MHz, though) PCI has a speed limit of 33MHz ISA has a speed limit of 12MHz EISA has a speed limit of bus clock (mine runs at 50MHz) PCI has a width limit of 64bits EISA has a width limit of 32bits VLB has a width limit of 32bits ISA has a width limit of 16bits (AT) or 8bits (XT) EISA and VLB fall back to 16/8 (ISA) depending on the card So which is faster depends on your relative bus clock rate (it has to be pretty high to beat PCI, however). For instance, a DX4/75 PCI has the same bus transfer rate as a DX/50 EISA. Actually, MCA looks pretty good, compartively. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:06:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25620 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:06:25 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25609 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:06:16 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA07852; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:09:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:09:33 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042309.RAA07852@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Rodney W. Grimes" "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 2:52pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The problem is improper dependency graphs in the makefile. > > > > Huh? Methink you don't understand the problem Mr. Lambert. > > > > trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h > > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Nov 22 04:38 /usr/include/stdio.h > > trout:/usr/user/nate % > > > > Now, if I got into /usr/src/include and do a 'make install' > > the date of that file will change due to the install copying the file in > > /usr/include over top of the old file, even though they are the same file > > in all respects. > > I think you better go read /usr/src/include/Makefile: Oh, I know that it already does a check. I was assuming that the check wasn't being done since Terry's arguement was that the compare step wasn't necessary because the bug was in the dependency graphs in the makefile. I was proposing moving the check *into* install for effeciency reasons, and then we could use it for more than just the include files. > You happened to have picked a bad example. There are include files > that this holds true for, and that is due not really having good > support in the *.mk files for a includes: rule. I would rather > see the above type of thing folded into the .mk files and not > muck with the install binary. Putting it in the install binary allows us to do this more effeciently. Yes, we could put it in the .mk files, but install already knows the sizes of both the original and the new files, so doing an update is obvious if they don't match, and doing cksums on both files would be much faster than the 'cmp' IMHO. [ Rest of the argument about stdio *NOT* getting changed deleted ] The point I was trying to make was that *NOT* installing things if there aren't any changes is a good thing to do, and shouldn't be limited to just the include files. Let's bloat up install to do it. *grin* > And the other nasty one is the libraries, Bruce has already discussed > all of this on the mailing lists. See above. Modifying install would be one (good) way of avoiding these problems. We are adding a bit more smarts to install is all. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:09:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25707 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:09:54 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25698 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:09:48 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21054; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:03:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504042303.AA21054@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:03:00 MDT Cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042123.PAA07372@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 03:23:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The problem is improper dependency graphs in the makefile. > > Huh? Methink you don't understand the problem Mr. Lambert. > > trout:/usr/user/nate % ls -l /usr/include/stdio.h > -r--r--r-- 1 bin bin 12938 Nov 22 04:38 /usr/include/stdio.h > trout:/usr/user/nate % > > Now, if I got into /usr/src/include and do a 'make install' > the date of that file will change due to the install copying the file in > /usr/include over top of the old file, even though they are the same file > in all respects. Serves you right for using the install utility to do the install instead of using "cp -p". The problem in this particular example is using an otherwise overpowered piece of software to try to do something it can't doe effectively. > > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > > cockamamy way to fix it. > > It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the > addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to > install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. A dependency would keep install from being called at all unless the target were younger than the source. Still better is to use "cp -p" to preserve the source date when copying to the target instead of using the install program at all for this particular "install:" target. > > Much better (if one must hack on install) to cause intermediately > > created directories when installing a target to be owned by the > > specified user and group instead of being owned by the installer > > (hint: this would fix a number of X install problems). > > This is orthogonal to the entire discussion, and why you are bringing it > up is beyond me. Have you been talking with J. Monroy lately? Hacking up a utility that you shouldn't be hacking up to ensure a behaviour that can be solved by either using the correct utility instead or by specifying a source/target dependency on the install and not doing the install at all in the case of no change is also orthogonal to the problem at hand. If you are going to go gratuitously hacking install, it might as well be to solve a long standing problem instead of a non-problem. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:11:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25778 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:11:15 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25772 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:11:14 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA04058; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:09:24 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504042309.QAA04058@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Cc: matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504042255.AA20914@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 04:55:48 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 346 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, MCA looks pretty good, compartively. 8-). I belive I saw an announcement that IBM will cease to produce MCA pc's and jump the PCI bandwagon instead... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:12:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25829 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:12:07 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25821 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:12:06 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA04080; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:11:22 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504042311.QAA04080@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042309.RAA07852@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:09:33 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 765 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Putting it in the install binary allows us to do this more effeciently. > Yes, we could put it in the .mk files, but install already knows the > sizes of both the original and the new files, so doing an update is > obvious if they don't match, and doing cksums on both files would be > much faster than the 'cmp' IMHO. Funny you should mention, I just ran some experiments (for CTM), and the fastest thing you can do is to mmap both files and memcmp them... I belive that these are worthwhile options to install, in particular since they make Makefiles easier to write correctly. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:13:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25873 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:13:08 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA25867 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:13:06 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21122; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:06:07 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504042306.AA21122@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:06:07 MDT Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042152.OAA08510@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 02:52:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You happened to have picked a bad example. There are include files > that this holds true for, and that is due not really having good > support in the *.mk files for a includes: rule. I would rather > see the above type of thing folded into the .mk files and not > muck with the install binary. Exactly; it's an issue of not doing the wrong thing because you have a dependency which stops you before you screw up. > > It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the > > addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to > > install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. > > I think Terry means this: > > ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} > install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ > ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} > > install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} Much cleaner than what I was thinking! Thank you! Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:14:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25913 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:14:31 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25903 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:14:26 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA07928; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:17:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:17:53 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042317.RAA07928@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: julian@TFS.COM (Julian Elischer) "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 3:55pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Modifying install to be 'smarter' about installing files ] > but if the Makefiles didn't see a reason to update it, then it would > be untouched and the same thing would result. Agreed. We'd need to modify the 'install' target in the .mk files to do the right thing. This is one solution to the problem, but IMHO modifying install would make it go faster, and it still follows the unix tradition of making the tool do one thing very well. Making install smarter about installint is not going against that tradition. > what we want is a make rule for X/a -> B/a > (i.e. just moving a file) Install can do that now, but then the file has to be re-generated in the source tree which causes the dates to change, which requires a comparison if it's to be installed again and we're at the same point we were before. > not to mention the trouble we have at the moment with > man pages and that #$%^# gzip.. Stolen from email Steven sent to me: if ( source.size != target.size || cksum.source != cksum.target ) Install the new one. else /* They're the same, don't bother screwing with the timestamp */ We get the added benefit of literally no overhead for the case when the sizes don't match, and the requirement of the two cksums if they do match. My guess is the two cksums are faster than the 'cmp' step used in some of the makefiles. And, if we pre-build the compressed man-pages, we can do the comparisons at install time to determine if they need to be installed or not. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:16:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA25977 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:16:54 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA25970 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:16:50 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA07950; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:20:30 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:20:30 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042320.RAA07950@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 5:03pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Serves you right for using the install utility to do the install > instead of using "cp -p". Ahh, and the overhead of calling chown, chgrp, and chmod is much better? 'I don't think so'. > The problem in this particular example is using an otherwise overpowered > piece of software to try to do something it can't doe effectively. It does it *much* more effectively than the combination of 'cp/chmod/chown/chgrp'. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:19:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26024 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:19:55 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26018 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:19:50 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA07968; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:23:08 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:23:08 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042323.RAA07968@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: Poul-Henning Kamp "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 4:11pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Putting it in the install binary allows us to do this more effeciently. > > Yes, we could put it in the .mk files, but install already knows the > > sizes of both the original and the new files, so doing an update is > > obvious if they don't match, and doing cksums on both files would be > > much faster than the 'cmp' IMHO. > > Funny you should mention, I just ran some experiments (for CTM), and the > fastest thing you can do is to mmap both files and memcmp them... I wonder if this is the case for non-x86 machines as well, since I suspect memcpy() uses the fast string routines available on x86 machines. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:22:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26083 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:22:21 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA26072 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:22:17 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21347; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:15:33 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504042315.AA21347@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:15:33 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042159.PAA07511@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 03:59:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As long as I'm in a rebutting mood. > > > Much better (if one must hack on install) to cause intermediately > > created directories when installing a target to be owned by the > > specified user and group instead of being owned by the installer > > (hint: this would fix a number of X install problems). > > 1) Install doesn't create any intermediate directories. Install doesn't > create directories period. (Although NetBSD has added support for that > in their version). % man install [ ... ] -d Create a directory. Missing parent direc- tories are created as required as in mkdir -p. If the directory already exists, the owner, group and mode will be set to the values given on the command line. > 2) What X install programs are you talking about? There aren't any > permission problems with X that I'm aware of, short of the > setuid/setgid requirements for certain programs which makes it > difficult to install them as normal users. setuid/setgid is *exactly* what I'm talking about. When you use the '-d' option in combination with '-g' and/or '-o', the "Missing parent directories are created as required" owned by root (the options are useless for a non-root user) instead of by the user/group specified by the other options. Meanwhile, a number of the "install::" targets generated by the Imake.rules file rules require that ownership be set correctly; fonts, specifically, and suid/sgid executables for X games that keep score files, more generally. The current correct workaround is "mkdirhier", which is a kludge, since it requires a full X and not just "imake" and the directory "/usr/lib/X11/config". Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:26:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26155 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:26:25 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26141 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:26:06 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA08021; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:29:41 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:29:41 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042329.RAA08021@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Rodney W. Grimes" "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 2:52pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > > > cockamamy way to fix it. > > > > It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the > > addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to > > install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. > > I think Terry means this: > > ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} > install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ > ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} > > install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} Ahh, but what if ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} was older than ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} simply because it was deleted during a purge of /usr/obj. My arguement is that it doesn't *need* to be installed (especially in the case of libraries). An include file change in one file will cause all of the libraries to be re-compiled that depend on it, but it doesn't *necessarily* mean that there were any changes in the library or it's functionality. If the libraries don't differ at a binary level, there weren't any changes, so they library doesn't need to be installed. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:29:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26250 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:29:08 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26244 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:29:01 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA08071; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:32:49 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:32:49 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042332.RAA08071@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 5:15pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As long as I'm in a rebutting mood. > > > > > Much better (if one must hack on install) to cause intermediately > > > created directories when installing a target to be owned by the > > > specified user and group instead of being owned by the installer > > > (hint: this would fix a number of X install problems). > > > > 1) Install doesn't create any intermediate directories. Install doesn't > > create directories period. (Although NetBSD has added support for that > > in their version). > > % man install > [ ... ] > -d Create a directory. ..... That ain't a FreeBSD machine you're on so none of the remaining arguements apply. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:36:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26424 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:36:59 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26418 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:36:57 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA04227; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:36:18 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504042336.QAA04227@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042323.RAA07968@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:23:08 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 406 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wonder if this is the case for non-x86 machines as well, since I > suspect memcpy() uses the fast string routines available on x86 > machines. The trick is that you use page-faults instead of read() to get to the file. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:37:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26446 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:39 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26440 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:35 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA07416; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:36:20 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504042336.QAA07416@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042309.RAA07852@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:09:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 806 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk First, Rod, Nate, Terry, You guys type (cut/paste) way too fast, and I thought I drank too much coffee. According to Nate Williams: > > The point I was trying to make was that *NOT* installing things if there > aren't any changes is a good thing to do, and shouldn't be limited to > just the include files. Let's bloat up install to do it. *grin* > Actually, the majority of the bloating of the executable is some added error handling. It's the price one pays for some sanity. My current source adds about 4k to the binary without trying to eliminate some redundant code. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:37:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:44 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26438 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:34 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA08721; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:35:21 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504042235.PAA08721@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504042255.AA20914@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 04:55:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2575 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Anyone have any performance results comparing the three types of > > > buses? I'm interested in disk I/O performance and/or network > > > I/O performance using the three buses and DMA. > > > > As a rule of thumb, PCI > EISA > ISA. > > Whose thumb are you looking at? 8-). Yours has a few facts wrong :-(. Replace speed limit with clock frequency in all of the following. > VLB has a speed limit of 40MHz (typical cards die > 33MHz, though) > PCI has a speed limit of 33MHz > ISA has a speed limit of 12MHz ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. > EISA has a speed limit of bus clock (mine runs at 50MHz) The EISA spec says that the BCLK signal shall be 8Mhz +/- 5%. Your CPU may very well be running at 50Mhz, but I'll beat you $100 your EISA BCLK is running at 50Mhz/6 or 8.3333Mhz (just inside the upper limit of 8.4Mhz). > PCI has a width limit of 64bits PCI has a standard bus width of 32 bits, with 64 bits being an extension. The only 64Bit PCI connectors I have ever seen where on prototype systems inside of Intel. There are no production 64 bit PCI motherboards or add in cards that I have been able to find at this time. So in effect PCI is still a 32 bit bus, forget all the sales hype! > EISA has a width limit of 32bits > VLB has a width limit of 32bits > ISA has a width limit of 16bits (AT) or 8bits (XT) > > EISA and VLB fall back to 16/8 (ISA) depending on the card The card is either in ISA emulation mode, or using ISA I/O port addresses. > So which is faster depends on your relative bus clock rate (it has > to be pretty high to beat PCI, however). Not really true. You'll never crank an ISA bus upto anywhere near the speed of any of the others. Hard top speed limits are more like: ISA: 5MB/sec EISA: 33MB/sec VLB: 132MB/sec PCI: 132MB/sec > For instance, a DX4/75 PCI has the same bus transfer rate as a DX/50 EISA. This is false, the PCI is most likely running at 25 Mhz, and the EISA at 8.33 Mhz. Due to the number of clocks cylces required to transfer data the max bux speeds would be 100MB/sec for PCI and 33MB/sec for EISA. > Actually, MCA looks pretty good, compartively. 8-). And it would have probably done very well had IBM not required all the stupid licenseing to use it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:37:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26463 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:47 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26457 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:43 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id QAA04236; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:03 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504042337.QAA04236@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042329.RAA08021@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:29:41 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 315 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If the libraries don't differ at a binary level, there weren't any > changes, so they library doesn't need to be installed. Right! -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:39:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26512 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:39:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26503 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:39:20 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA08762; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:38:27 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504042238.PAA08762@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504042306.AA21122@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 05:06:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1265 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > You happened to have picked a bad example. There are include files > > that this holds true for, and that is due not really having good > > support in the *.mk files for a includes: rule. I would rather > > see the above type of thing folded into the .mk files and not > > muck with the install binary. > > Exactly; it's an issue of not doing the wrong thing because you > have a dependency which stops you before you screw up. > > > > It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the > > > addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to > > > install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. > > > > I think Terry means this: > > > > ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} > > install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ > > ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} > > > > install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} > > Much cleaner than what I was thinking! Thank you! Okay, I'll play with this a little and see if technically this can be made to work. I will not have the time to do a full implementation though. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:40:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26573 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:40:44 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26566 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:40:40 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA07154; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:40:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA00208; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:40:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199504042340.QAA00208@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 19:23:14 +0200." <199504041723.TAA00153@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 16:40:07 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I noticed this on snap950210, but didn't pay too much attention to it. >Now (snap950322) I decided to enable swap to a file, created /dev/vn0*, >did > > vnconfig -e /dev/vn0b myfile swap > >and, surprise surprise, swapinfo says: > 1K blocks Used >/dev/wd0b 65536 64 >/dev/vn0b 1280 64 > >which is kind of curious, as the machine has 16 MB ram and almost >no activity going on... Swap partition, when in use, are always >reported with at least 64 KB in use. > >Is there any explaination ? The first swap block is always pre-allocated. This was done to work around a problem with people putting their swap partition at the beginning of their disk (the system would happily try to destroy the label). I suppose it would be better to change swapinfo/pstat to not include the first block of swap space in its report. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:44:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26650 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:44:23 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26644 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:44:14 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA08800; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:43:34 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504042243.PAA08800@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042317.RAA07928@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:17:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1430 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... > > not to mention the trouble we have at the moment with > > man pages and that #$%^# gzip.. > > Stolen from email Steven sent to me: > > if ( source.size != target.size || cksum.source != cksum.target ) > Install the new one. > else > /* They're the same, don't bother screwing with the timestamp */ > > We get the added benefit of literally no overhead for the case when the > sizes don't match, and the requirement of the two cksums if they do > match. My guess is the two cksums are faster than the 'cmp' step used > in some of the makefiles. > > And, if we pre-build the compressed man-pages, we can do the comparisons > at install time to determine if they need to be installed or not. This is actually fairly easy to fix, and it should be. Doing the gzip in the installed man page area really trashes my /usr file system!! After a make world I find that my /usr is usually fragmented >2%, before it is under <.5%. Also, I am of the opinion that the only thing being done during the install phase is INSTALLING, not gzipping or otherwize munging files! Almost to the point of having a ${PROG}.stripped rule (you'r cmp thing in install is going to have to compare a stripped version of programs or it will always fail for the standard binary case). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:51:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26749 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:51:15 -0700 Received: from mail.tamu.edu (MAIL.TAMU.EDU [128.194.103.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26743 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:51:11 -0700 Received: from vcsun2.tamu.edu (vcsun2.tamu.edu [128.194.169.97]) by mail.tamu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA03283 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:51:08 -0500 Received: from vcsun1.tamu.edu by vcsun2.tamu.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA11731; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:49:50 -0500 Received: by vcsun1.tamu.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07279; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:48:35 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:48:35 -0500 From: tbrown@vcsun2.tamu.edu (Tom Brown) Message-Id: <9504042348.AA07279@vcsun1.tamu.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: HELP: ifconfig problem Cc: tbrown@vcsun2.tamu.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i am trying to connect a freebsd 2.0 486dx machine a thin ethernet network and when i try the following: ifconfig le0 128.194.169.53 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 128.194.169.255 i get the message: ifconfig: ioctl(SIOCGIFFLAGS): no such interface when i try dmesg, i get the following: le0: no board found at 0x300 le0 not found at 0x300 however, i have an ethernet card installed which worked when i was running freebsd 1.5.1 on this machine a month ago. it has not been tampered with. any ideas? thanks, tom -- Tom Brown loc: Wiesenbaker 232-E Graduate Research Assistant email: tbrown@vcsun1.tamu.edu Dept. of Electrical Engineering www: http://tam2000.tamu.edu/~tbb6141 Texas A&M University phone: (409)-845-5774 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:51:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26765 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:51:45 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26758 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:51:40 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA08239; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:55:25 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:55:25 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199504042355.RAA08239@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: "Rodney W. Grimes" "Re: new install(1) utility" (Apr 4, 3:43pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Smarter intall which only installs files if they have changed ] > > And, if we pre-build the compressed man-pages, we can do the comparisons > > at install time to determine if they need to be installed or not. > > This is actually fairly easy to fix, and it should be. Doing the gzip > in the installed man page area really trashes my /usr file system!! We are in agreement here? Wow! > Also, I am of the opinion that the only thing being done during the > install phase is INSTALLING, not gzipping or otherwize munging files! > > Almost to the point of having a ${PROG}.stripped rule (you'r cmp thing > in install is going to have to compare a stripped version of programs > or it will always fail for the standard binary case). Hmm, I had forgotten about the strip option. Sigh.. However, for the parts of the system that bite us the most the smart install is a good solution. We don't have to use it for everything (or anything for that matter), but for those files which do affect the dependencies, I think it would be a big win. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:56:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26835 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:56:10 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA26823; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:56:05 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14709(3)>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:32:55 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:30:27 -0700 To: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 18:18:55 PDT." <9504040118.AA00039@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:30:23 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr4.153027pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <9504040118.AA00039@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> you write: >A bug makes IGMP response timeouts too fast on big endian machines and >causes IGMP packet traffic on the network unnecessarily high, but >applications such as nv still runs. On little endian machines, on the >other hand, the bug makes the timeouts too slow and makes the system >fail to send IGMP responses to a local mrouter within time limits. Could you tell me more about this "too-fast" bug? The only bug in IGMP that I have found makes the timeouts twice as long as requested. (There is a "parallel" bug in mrouted which requests extremely short timeouts, which may be what you are seeing.) > timer = ntohs(igmp->igmp_code); Interestingly enough, igmp_code is a u_char. I suppose that byte-swapping a char doesn't make a whole lot of sense =) >You should change it to: > > timer = igmp->igmp_code; The 3.5 multicast release will contain lots of IGMP fixes (plus a lot of other kernel fixes/changes), and I hope to have it ported to FreeBSD soon. Any volunteers to do testing? Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 16:58:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA26879 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:58:08 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA26872 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:58:06 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA07493; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:56:59 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504042356.QAA07493@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 4, 95 03:55:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1067 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Julian Elischer: > > but if the Makefiles didn't see a reason to update it, then it would > be untouched and the same thing would result. > what we want is a make rule for X/a -> B/a > (i.e. just moving a file) > not to mention the trouble we have at the moment with > man pages and that #$%^# gzip.. > Are you talking about disk space consumption or the time for `make world' to complete because of gzip *.1 etc? With my current modifications, you can do %install -S /usr/src/usr.bin.xinstall/install.1 /usr/share/man/man1 and create a symlink. This frees up about 3.5MB, and there is no gzipping done. If you want to free an additional 2.5 to 3 MB, then add a `-z' options. %install -S -z /usr/src/usr.bin.xinstall/install.1 /usr/share/man/man1 This creates a symlink pointing at a gzipped install.1 in the src tree. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:05:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA26993 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:05:06 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA26984 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:04:55 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA22545; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:58:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504042358.AA22545@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:57:58 MDT Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042329.RAA08021@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:29:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} > > install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ > > ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} > > > > install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} > > Ahh, but what if ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} was older than > ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} simply because it was deleted during a purge of > /usr/obj. My arguement is that it doesn't *need* to be installed > (especially in the case of libraries). You could argue that it was then a mistake to rebuild the binary, since the generated binary that already exists is newer than the source files from which it is derived... and you have to admit that the build is going to take you a hell of a lot more time than a useless install for binaries, and your point is not valid for header file installs with Rods patch (which is only necessary because "install" is bogusly used instead of "cp -p" in building the "finished" include directory anyway). This is the problem with builds that go src->obj->bin without making the obj step contingent on a bin->src dependency check. Not that I think that would be easily resolvable, but... Actually, that would be a vastly superior approach anyway. It is highly likely that people are going to mount a CDROM, union mount some real storage on top of that, change one or two small things, then build. With the expectation that the build will never take more space than that necessary for a single binary + object files in addition to the current installed storage, with the exception of staged build, like the developement tools. In other words, something like: cd /usr/src for i in bin/* do cd $i make install make clean cd ../.. done This would allow anyone with nearly zilcho disk space to rebuild their entire system, and further for only the new things to end up being built at all. I don't see make files becoming non-interpreted any time soon, so it will be nearly impossible to compute transitive closure over the cyclic src->obj->bin graph to the level that it is desirable to do so. Unless you plan on rewriteing make some time soon so that it can remain interpreted but support an alternate syntax to allow some type of ordered staging of dependencies. > An include file change in one file will cause all of the libraries to > be re-compiled that depend on it, but it doesn't *necessarily* mean that > there were any changes in the library or it's functionality. So what you are arguing is the idempotency of include dependencies? The fix for this is to make it so any change to an include file must change the behaviour of the code that includes it. In other words, don't extern both printf and sprintf in the same include file, etc. Otherwise, an include change must result in at least the objects that are stated to depend on it being rebuilt. That these objects are/aren't different from the objects already in the library is a optimization for "ar" to make, not "install", unless you are going to buy into incremental compilation technology (and with the level of stupidity in the current linker -- which can't even do inter-object type checking -- I don't see that happening). > If the libraries don't differ at a binary level, there weren't any > changes, so they library doesn't need to be installed. If the object in the library didn't differ at the binary level, a new library didn't need to be built, and if the objects in the library are not older than the sources from which they are derived, they don't need to be built in order to do a content comparison in the first place (which *will* differ unless you specifically except ident strings in any case). All I see being saved in the case of a binary file like the library in this example is a copy of something that was at least two orders of magnitude more expensive to build than it would be to copy, and that shouldn't have been built in the first place. And with shared libraries, you can't argue that the binary needs to be rebuilt at all unless the binary uses a deperecated interface -- which you can't tell without rebuilding the link dependency graph using the old interfaces *which were used* vs. the new interfaces. Which I suppose you could do at a probable higher expense than just installing the damn thing and forgetting about it (the expense of effectively relinking the binary statically against the new shared library to determine whether a dynamic link would be successful or not). I think the header file argument is a valid one; I also think it's better resolved than by hacking install so that it needs continuing maintenance to keep it in sync. I think the binary argument is a straw man. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:07:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27054 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:07:49 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA27044 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:07:47 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA22685; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:00:58 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050000.AA22685@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:00:58 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042332.RAA08071@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:32:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > % man install > > [ ... ] > > -d Create a directory. ..... > > That ain't a FreeBSD machine you're on so none of the remaining > arguements apply. Fine. Then I'll change my argument to one of that option needing to be added, or of needing a change to Imake.rules for the FreeBSD distribution of XFree86, which then gets to be different than all other distributions in that its Imake.rules have been changed. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:16:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27201 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:16:53 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27194 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:16:51 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id RAA20566 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:13:57 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:16:24 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:16:26 -0500 To: smmcgee@ncbc.edu From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Sean McGee" writes: >So, who's going to port SATAN so that we have some kind of defense? Who has ported perl5? We must have that as a tool to make SATAN work. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:17:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27225 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:17:20 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27215 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:17:14 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id UAA05612; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:16:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:16:43 -0400 From: steve2 (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504050016.UAA05612@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The "ready for output in input" errors are par for the course. Ignore them. > I thought I heard that the current maintainer of the driver was going to > get rid of them by 2.1, but they're still there. I submitted a patch some time ago but nobody committed it. There was also a fix in there to keep the motor from being activated during the probe for people who do not have tape drives. I re-sent this fix to Rod a couple of weeks ago but I'm not sure what he's doing with it. The fix within ft to avoid the messages works, but the correct way to remove them is to get them out of the fd driver in the first place. In my opinion they should only be debug messages, since it's not as if the user can take some corrective action after seeing them. It would be nice if someone did this before 2.1 is burned. Also, a number of people have reported to be having problems with the driver recognizing their tape drives. They sound very much like timing problems. At one time the timing characteristics of the driver worked for almost everyone as long as your CPU and bus speed was not on the extreme in either direction. It seems with PCI and/or pentium systems this may no longer be the case. Has anyone examined the DELAY (microtime?) function to see if it is running noticeably faster on those systems? - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:20:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27337 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:20:43 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA27331 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:20:41 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA23162; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:13:39 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050013.AA23162@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu (Steven G Kargl) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:13:39 MDT Cc: julian@tfs.com, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042356.QAA07493@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> from "Steven G Kargl" at Apr 4, 95 04:56:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > but if the Makefiles didn't see a reason to update it, then it would > > be untouched and the same thing would result. > > what we want is a make rule for X/a -> B/a > > (i.e. just moving a file) > > not to mention the trouble we have at the moment with > > man pages and that #$%^# gzip.. > > > > Are you talking about disk space consumption or the time for > `make world' to complete because of gzip *.1 etc? I think he is talking about the auto formating-then-gzipping of man pages by the man system because it thinks a newly installed man page which isn't really new is newer than the preformatted copy because the date is not preserved on the install. Which begs the questions of: 1) Why was it installed if the "target" file was the same or newer than the source file? and 2) If the dependency wasn't checked, why was it installed with "install" instead of "cp -p", which would have preserved the date and prevented it from appearing to need to be updated in the first place? The header file argument is that because we build the header file intermediate directory using various source locations for header files and [incorrectly] do not preserve the date, then we need to compare with the installed headers because when we installed then from the intermediate directory, we [again] did not preserve the date. The problem being that install is being used to move the files instead of "cp -p" (or tar or cpio or *whatever*) for absolutely no good reason, and install without mods *won't* preserve the dates. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:31:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27507 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:31:15 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA27500 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:31:10 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA23499; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:24:17 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050024.AA23499@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:24:16 MDT Cc: kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042320.RAA07950@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:20:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Serves you right for using the install utility to do the install > > instead of using "cp -p". > > Ahh, and the overhead of calling chown, chgrp, and chmod is much better? > 'I don't think so'. Since "cp -p" preserves this information, you are saying that the copy in the source tree has the incorrect owner, group, and permissions. This is something which should be corrected in the source tree. Doing the correction post-facto elsewhere is bogus. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:36:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27576 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:36:46 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA27570 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:36:42 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504042255.AA20914@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 04:55:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 988 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Whose thumb are you looking at? 8-). > > VLB has a speed limit of 40MHz (typical cards die > 33MHz, though) > PCI has a speed limit of 33MHz > ISA has a speed limit of 12MHz > EISA has a speed limit of bus clock (mine runs at 50MHz) hmmmm (quick check of EISA SPEC) no, BUS speed on EISA != CPU clockspeed.. 1.3 Synchronous Data Transfer Protocol [bla bla]....Burst cycles with up to 33MB/s data transfer rate. table in section 1.4.2 [chop] 16bit............16.5MB/sec.........EISA cards only 32bit............33MB/sec...........EISA cards only 2.1.2 BCLK ... [bla bla]... frequency between 8.333 MHz and 6MHz.....[bla bla] PLUS many other references that state that the EISA bus is based around the BCLK signal.. > > > For instance, a DX4/75 PCI has the same bus transfer rate as a DX/50 EISA. hmm probably the PCI is faster, because most EISA transfers take a number of clock cycles... > > > Actually, MCA looks pretty good, compartively. 8-). always did.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:38:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27623 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:38:35 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27611 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:38:25 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA00736; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:37:52 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:37:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" cc: Steven Wallace , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage wrote: > >See anything wrong in here? Because I think that since Linux and FreeBSD > >use the sound driver, that the IOCTLs should behave exactly the same. > > Linux release currently uses older version of sounddriver, > we upgade to somewhat intermediate version. We can switch back > to old version of course, but better to move forward to v3.0. It seems like the Linux 1.2? kernel has all virtually the same driver we use. Even if this is true, the program which I tested is very simple and should work on any version of the sound drivers (post 2.9). Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:54:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27829 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:54:04 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA27823 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:54:00 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA24190; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:45:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050045.AA24190@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:45:56 MDT Cc: matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504042235.PAA08721@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 03:35:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Whose thumb are you looking at? 8-). > > Yours has a few facts wrong :-(. You're right; I looked at the EISA spec. It's different than my board settings, but then again, I may have lucked out by buying noting but high end components. My personal EISA system is running ~2 times spec (16.6MHz (50MHz/3)); it's definitely an over clocked exception. You should substitute MCA for EISA in the original post, and my numbers become happy again, since that's what I was thinking about; I just got a bunch of docs for PC busses and was reading them last night. > ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running > as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more > specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. I've seen a lot of boards, especially serial boards and cheap floppy controllers die at anything other than 8. Many older floppy controllers used dividers instead of real clocks to get frequencies, with the result that you had to turn off "turbo" mode (drop from 16/12 to 8Mhz on the machine) to read commercially manufactured floppies. Actually, this is the gist of a reply I made on "questions" recently. > You'll never crank an ISA bus upto anywhere near > the speed of any of the others. Hard top speed limits are more like: > > ISA: 5MB/sec > EISA: 33MB/sec > VLB: 132MB/sec > PCI: 132MB/sec I think the VLB number here is a marketing lie. It can't be sustained at anywhere near that level because of it stealing refresh cycles; the good thing about PCI is that it handles memory contention better and gurantees cache writeback (VLB guarantess this only for master slots, and doesn't guarantee master slots). VLB is an OK video bus, but fairly crummy for anything else. VLB should come up better (40MHz) than PCI (33MHz), but this would be "marketing better" and not "technical better", IMO. I know only a few VLB cards that can actually go faster than 33. > And it would have probably done very well had IBM not required all > the stupid licenseing to use it. Buy a Tandy? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 17:59:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA27881 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:59:42 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA27874 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:59:36 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA08504; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:03:13 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:03:13 -0600 Message-Id: <199504050103.TAA08504@trout.sri.MT.net> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: new install(1) utility In-Reply-To: <9504050024.AA23499@cs.weber.edu> References: <199504042320.RAA07950@trout.sri.MT.net> <9504050024.AA23499@cs.weber.edu> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > Serves you right for using the install utility to do the install > > > instead of using "cp -p". > > > > Ahh, and the overhead of calling chown, chgrp, and chmod is much better? > > 'I don't think so'. > > Since "cp -p" preserves this information, you are saying that the > copy in the source tree has the incorrect owner, group, and permissions. > This is something which should be corrected in the source tree. Doing > the correction post-facto elsewhere is bogus. Uhh, the permissions of the file *need* to be different in many cases since it's awful hard to get ld to make setuid files. For include files you want them to be writable in the src tree, but not in the /usr/include tree, and permissions for the installations *should* NEVER, NOT, EVER, be dependant on the permissions in the src tree. Now you are going to make us go hack all of our source code control tools so that they always restore the correct permissions and ownerships. 'cp -p' is NOT a solution. Not even close. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:03:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA27993 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:03:52 -0700 Received: from GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU (GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.205.91]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA27986 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:03:50 -0700 Received: from LOCALHOST by GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU id aa28378; 4 Apr 95 21:02 EDT From: moto@CS.cmu.edu To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: process migration or DSM Reply-To: moto@CS.cmu.edu Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 21:02:22 -0400 Message-ID: <28375.797043742@GS81.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm planning to do some research about distributed systems, especially in the field like process migration/replication, distributed shared memory, load balancing (or any other interesting things). I'd like to use FreeBSD as a test bed for this purpose. The reason why I'd choose FreeBSD rather than other existing experimental OSes is that I'd like to do something useful and practical. If you know someone who is doing related things, please let me know. Any information (tech pointer, suggestion, disagreement or whatever) will also be appreciated. Thanks! ============================================================================== Motonori Shindou Carnegie Mellon University SCS Graduate Student e-mail: moto@cs.cmu.edu, NiftyServe: GEG04056 WWW: http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001:/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/moto/WWW/moto-home.html TEL: 412-362-9636 FAX: 412-362-9634 ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:05:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28114 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:05:50 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28108 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:05:47 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rwJVq-000308C; Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:04 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:04:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504042255.AA20914@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 04:55:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 802 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Anyone have any performance results comparing the three types of > > > buses? I'm interested in disk I/O performance and/or network > > > I/O performance using the three buses and DMA. > > > > As a rule of thumb, PCI > EISA > ISA. > > Whose thumb are you looking at? 8-). > > VLB has a speed limit of 40MHz (typical cards die > 33MHz, though) > PCI has a speed limit of 33MHz > ISA has a speed limit of 12MHz > EISA has a speed limit of bus clock (mine runs at 50MHz) A recent Buslogic marketing brochure I received claims that their new EISA controllers (BT-747C & BT-757C) can run up to 66MB/second using what they call enhanced master burst mode (EMB). I know nothing more about it. -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:19:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28385 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:19:23 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA28372 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:19:16 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA08559; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:22:59 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:22:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199504050122.TAA08559@trout.sri.MT.net> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: new install(1) utility In-Reply-To: <9504042358.AA22545@cs.weber.edu> References: <199504042329.RAA08021@trout.sri.MT.net> <9504042358.AA22545@cs.weber.edu> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} > > > install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ > > > ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} > > > > > > install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} > > > > Ahh, but what if ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} was older than > > ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} simply because it was deleted during a purge of > > /usr/obj. My arguement is that it doesn't *need* to be installed > > (especially in the case of libraries). > > You could argue that it was then a mistake to rebuild the binary, > since the generated binary that already exists is newer than the > source files from which it is derived... True, but sometimes header files have changes in them which don't affect certain binaries, but for safety sake we still must rebuild the binary because the system has no way of knowing that. Since the binaries aren't any different, we shouldn't install the binary even though it has a newer date. > and you have to admit > that the build is going to take you a hell of a lot more time than > a useless install for binaries, and your point is not valid for > header file installs with Rods patch Rod's 'patch' is the current scheme for installing files in /usr/include. He quoted part of the /usr/src/include Makefile. I'd like to see 'install' extended to do this if we supply the appropriate (new) command line flag. This would clean up the Makefiles which are hacked to work around a what I consider a deficiency in install, and allow us to easily add this functionality to other Makefiles like the libraries versions. >(which is only necessary because > "install" is bogusly used instead of "cp -p" in building the "finished" > include directory anyway). Hmm, I'm getting the feeling that Terry thinks 'cp -p' will solve all of the world's problems. It won't. See other email. > This is the problem with builds that go src->obj->bin without making > the obj step contingent on a bin->src dependency check. > > Not that I think that would be easily resolvable, but... Hey, as long we want the best solution, why not ask for it all. :-) > cd /usr/src > for i in bin/* > do > cd $i > make install > make clean > cd ../.. > done Tell you what. Go off and show me a build system that *works* and does all these things, and when you are *ALL* done I'm sure we're all take a look at it and go 'neato, we've got to have it'. Until then it's all just speculation about something that 'could be better' but is *extremely* difficult to get right. > > An include file change in one file will cause all of the libraries to > > be re-compiled that depend on it, but it doesn't *necessarily* mean that > > there were any changes in the library or it's functionality. > > So what you are arguing is the idempotency of include dependencies? > > The fix for this is to make it so any change to an include file must > change the behaviour of the code that includes it. In other words, > don't extern both printf and sprintf in the same include file, etc. Yeah, right. We are *not* going to be making itty-bitty include files which are all completely separate from each other, so that we know that IF a file changes then it will result in a binary difference. Every single function will require a new include file. I can see it now. "Okay everyone, I'm adding a new db function. If you want to use it you'll need to include ", or else you won't get it's function prototype." vs. "I'm modifying to add a new function which is used by my program and a couple others. No other existing programs use this function, but it will probably be more useful in the future" I've been in shops where both of these have occurred, and everyone prefers the latter approach which makes more work for the CPU, but alot less work for the programmer. This is supposed to make our lives easier, not more difficult. > That these objects are/aren't different from the objects already in > the library is a optimization for "ar" to make, not "install", unless > you are going to buy into incremental compilation technology (and > with the level of stupidity in the current linker -- which can't > even do inter-object type checking -- I don't see that happening). Reality check Terry. We are talking about the tools we have today, not tomorrow. We're not going to modify every build tool in existance so your perfect dependency world can be satisfied. >From my point of view, we are getting way too far out in left field for this conversation to have any relevance to reality, so I'm (once again) bowing out. Consider this to be my last posting on the subject. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:22:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28499 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:22:40 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28486 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:22:37 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <26017-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:22:02 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id LAA05710 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:25:31 +1000 Received: by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id BAA15731; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:23:04 GMT Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:23:04 GMT From: Stephen Hocking Message-Id: <199504050123.BAA15731@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Just my thoughts.... >> >> Lets try not to distribute the new sound driver till we know that it >> works. > >Sounds good to me! In fact, that almost seems like a *management* >decision! You did that very well! So well, in fact, that I think we >should elect you Audio Czar and stand back while you and Jim champion >the cause of truly cool audio support in FreeBSD! Andrew's busy, and >since you're looking so... managerial.. I just thought it seemed >a natural fit! :-) > >What do the rest of you think? Amancio for Audio Czar? Yes! Rah! >Rah! Rah! Speach! Speach! :-) :-) > > Jordan Yes! Yes! Yes! (heehee....) Stephen From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:30:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28656 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:30:36 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28650 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:30:34 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042329.RAA08021@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:29:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 957 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > > > > cockamamy way to fix it. > > > > > > It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the > > > addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to > > > install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. > > > > I think Terry means this: > > > > ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} > > install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ > > ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} > > > > install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} > > Ahh, but what if ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} was older than > ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} simply because it was deleted during a purge of > /usr/obj. My arguement is that it doesn't *need* to be installed > (especially in the case of libraries). This is hte best argument I've heard for BOTH options.. i.e. the dependencies under Make, AND the install that doesn't (sometimes) > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:40:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28798 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:40:02 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28792; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:40:00 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Cc: smmcgee@ncbc.edu, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Apr 4, 95 07:16:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 425 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk we need to do that here too.... let me know if your get it done.. I can set it up on REF.tfs.com and we can use it as a service to beat on each other's systems :) > > "Sean McGee" writes: > >So, who's going to port SATAN so that we have some kind of defense? > > Who has ported perl5? We must have that as a tool to make SATAN work. > > ---- > Richard Wackerbarth > rkw@dataplex.net > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:42:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA28848 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:42:33 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA28842 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:42:32 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504050024.AA23499@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 06:24:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 613 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Serves you right for using the install utility to do the install > > > instead of using "cp -p". > > > > Ahh, and the overhead of calling chown, chgrp, and chmod is much better? > > 'I don't think so'. > > Since "cp -p" preserves this information, you are saying that the > copy in the source tree has the incorrect owner, group, and permissions. > This is something which should be corrected in the source tree. Doing > the correction post-facto elsewhere is bogus. well, not really, because you may wasnt to compile as 'terry' and just su to root for the install I tend to do it that way.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 18:54:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA29030 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:54:41 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA29024 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 18:54:40 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25366; Tue, 4 Apr 95 19:47:52 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050147.AA25366@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 19:47:52 MDT Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 4, 95 06:41:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > well, not really, because you may wasnt to compile as 'terry' > and just su to root for the install > > I tend to do it that way.. 'terry' should be uid 0, gid 0 on all systems. 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:07:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29214 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:07:00 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA29208 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:06:56 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25538; Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:00:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050200.AA25538@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:00:00 MDT Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504050122.TAA08559@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 07:22:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You convinced me (at least for "install -p" for preserve time stamps but set uid/gid/modes) with your post prior to this one. I think we have ended up with interleaved threads here, which makes things a bit more difficult to unravel. > > You could argue that it was then a mistake to rebuild the binary, > > since the generated binary that already exists is newer than the > > source files from which it is derived... > > True, but sometimes header files have changes in them which don't affect > certain binaries, but for safety sake we still must rebuild the binary > because the system has no way of knowing that. Since the binaries > aren't any different, we shouldn't install the binary even though it has > a newer date. Julian put forth a persuasive argument to this effect just recently, and I agree, in theory. My problem is that this is going to change the iden strings in the binary in any case, and the compare will *always* show differences. I don't see a reasonable way around this. > This would clean up the Makefiles which are > hacked to work around a what I consider a deficiency in install, and > allow us to easily add this functionality to other Makefiles like the > libraries versions. I bought off on "-p"; I think that the .mk files could fix a lot of your other arguments, as Rod suggested. > Hmm, I'm getting the feeling that Terry thinks 'cp -p' will solve all of > the world's problems. It won't. See other email. I agree now. See other email. 8-). > Reality check Terry. We are talking about the tools we have today, not > tomorrow. We're not going to modify every build tool in existance so > your perfect dependency world can be satisfied. Oh, cmon, ...please! Can't I have a little bit of peril? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:12:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29414 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:12:20 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA29408 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:12:18 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25302; Tue, 4 Apr 95 19:43:55 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050143.AA25302@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 19:43:54 MDT Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504050103.TAA08504@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 07:03:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Serves you right for using the install utility to do the install > > > > instead of using "cp -p". > > > > > > Ahh, and the overhead of calling chown, chgrp, and chmod is much better? > > > 'I don't think so'. > > > > Since "cp -p" preserves this information, you are saying that the > > copy in the source tree has the incorrect owner, group, and permissions. > > This is something which should be corrected in the source tree. Doing > > the correction post-facto elsewhere is bogus. > > Uhh, the permissions of the file *need* to be different in many cases > since it's awful hard to get ld to make setuid files. For include files > you want them to be writable in the src tree, but not in the > /usr/include tree, and permissions for the installations *should* NEVER, > NOT, EVER, be dependant on the permissions in the src tree. Now you are > going to make us go hack all of our source code control tools so that > they always restore the correct permissions and ownerships. > > 'cp -p' is NOT a solution. Not even close. OK, I buy the setuid output from ld; my main concern was the header files, then later the man pages; Julian correctly pointed out that this was a case of X/a -> B/a, where the target equals the source, just at a different location. I think the chmod on the target is fairly thin justification, since a chmod will only update the ctime, not the mtime, and it's the mtime that make compares. We are talking a single additional call for the chmod, and that on the "built but not installed" include directory only in case of a change in the sources, with the whole point of the exercise being to avoid unnecessary installs. I don't think you can successfully argue for a different group/owner on installed and source include files, but with permissions you've made your case. I think the subsequent include install could use cp -p without any changes to the install binary. With that in mind, you will save a subshell per actually modified include file during 50% of the installs required by the change. I still think this is pretty thin, since the whole design is trying to assume that the header files have not in fact changed. But it is arguable that instead of :w! you'd want to be non-root and use :w to save your modified include file. This thin justification is probably enough to modify the install behaviour, at least to add the "-p" option, with the ongoing maintenance that entails if the changes aren't rolled in by the original author (assuming FreeBSD does not now "own" the code). It still makes my teeth itch, but I can't suggest an alternative that makes my teeth feel any better, so I'll get out of the way. I think the dependencies that Rod, Julian, and I were talking about to prevent the calling of an "install -p" or "cp -p" in the first place need to go in. It is much less burdensome to call stat twice in a program that is already running than to fork and exec another program that then calls stat twice anyway. I would say the "install but don't really do it if they are the same" options are still not useful; the problem should be solved by correcting the Makefile dependencies instead of appologizing for them being missing with a hacked install that gets all worked up then does nothing. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:14:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29484 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:14:30 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA29478 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:14:26 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA05425; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:13:44 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504050213.TAA05425@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504050200.AA25538@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 08:00:00 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 824 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Julian put forth a persuasive argument to this effect just recently, > and I agree, in theory. My problem is that this is going to change the > iden strings in the binary in any case, and the compare will *always* > show differences. > > I don't see a reasonable way around this. Not true. I ran with a local hack to install which did just this, and even though it was a kludge, it saved time on the average make world. I don't think any file will change substantially, as long they come from the same version from the CVS-tree. > Oh, cmon, ...please! Can't I have a little bit of peril? 8-). Sure Terry, when do we get you patches ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:20:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29603 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:20:51 -0700 Received: from ast.com (irvine.ast.com [165.164.128.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA29597 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:20:46 -0700 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA14220 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:23:56 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Tue, 4 Apr 95 21:17 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0rwKc9-0004vtC; Tue, 4 Apr 95 21:14 CDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 21:14 CDT To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Tue Apr 4 1995, 21:14:37 CDT Subject: Suggestion on slow probing devices Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is just a suggestion OK? So no flaming about not being "BSDish" enough right? :-) I wrote drivers on a XENIX system many years ago (it was better than doing PCDOS, OK?) and we had a terrible problem with devices that took forever to initialize. Some of the stupider devices took 30 to 45 seconds to even show a hint of their presence, and we sometimes had to look for up to four of these beasties at several addresses. The time spent in what FreeBSD calls probing and attaching reached up into the minutes range. Marketing was not happy with this and you know the rest of that story. The solution was to create two probing passes. The system would effectively call each devices' probe routine twice. The first time through the probe routine, it was to start anything that took a long time, such as resetting devices, and/or doing media recalibrates and then just return. No messages were output in the first pass of any sort. No result was returned on the presence or absence of hardware. Then the next device in config would get to be pre-probed. (FYI, I believe we had interrupts off all during this time.) Once every driver had been "pre-probed", the kernel went off and did other slow stuff, such as doing checksum on the code image, checking serial numbers, testing the rest of RAM, initializing static drivers (keyboard, DMA, interrupt controllers, etc), bufs, internal tables, basically any slow stuff that we could put off until now. Then the kernel would return and run probe a second time on all the devices. Hopefully a lot of the resetting time for the various devices occurred while the other devices were initializing AND IN PARALLEL so the delays at this point were usually minor. All we did was pass an extra parm to the probe routines indicating if it was pass 1 or 2 and divided the tasks in each driver accordingly. If a driver figured out that it did or did not have hardware in pass 1, it wouldn't say anything until it was re-run in pass 2. We discovered that most block drivers could take advantage of this and the code changes were quite minor. The faster boot-up speed was a big plus and there was no combination of drivers that resulted in a longer boot time. This technique cut the boot time to 1/4th of what it was. For FreeBSD something similar could be implemented, although I suggest adding an entry in kenrel config indicating if a given driver is capable of being probed twice so that we don't have to modify all the drivers at once. If the driver isn't a two-pass driver, it would be probed only during the second pass, which would be equivalent to the pass that is done now. So as we update a given driver, that driver's wait-time would be shared with the overhead of some other driver or basic system initialization rather than each driver sitting in a timing loop, one at a time, wait for its devices to go ready before letting the next driver run and reset and wait on its devices. FreeBSD already has several drivers that have to wait a long time when initializing that could take advantage of such a scheme. SCSI and the proprietary CD-ROM drivers come to mind. Granted there are some drivers that issue a command to a port, wait (or settle) a few seconds and decide the hardware isn't there, issue a command to a different port, wait again, timeout and move along, etc. The above scheme would put the first of those waits in parallel with other options but the additional delays would still be done serially. But you still saved time. Comments? Frank Durda IV |"Hey Moe! This pipe is all or uhclem%nemesis@trsvax.ast.com (Internet)| full of wires!" ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"Well, rip 'em out!" ...decvax!trsvax.fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem | Notes from a typical management network planning session." From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:22:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29639 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:22:57 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA29633 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:22:53 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25831; Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:16:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504050216.AA25831@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:15:59 MDT Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, nate@trout.sri.MT.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504050213.TAA05425@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 4, 95 07:13:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Oh, cmon, ...please! Can't I have a little bit of peril? 8-). > Sure Terry, when do we get you patches ? I promise to hack on the build before 2.3 comes out; whether everyone will hate it or not is another matter. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:27:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29750 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:27:52 -0700 Received: from dtr.com (dtr.rain.com [204.119.8.19]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA29743; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:27:43 -0700 From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA21370; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:23:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199504050223.TAA21370@dtr.com> Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, smmcgee@ncbc.edu, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 4, 95 06:37:40 pm Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1239 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm going to have a go at porting perl5 tonight - I'll let everyone know how it goes. One thing bothers me. I can run SATAN locally to test my own network, but I have no capability to run it remotely. The only other network that I have sufficient access to is not very well connected (all access to the Internet is via a 9600bps SLIP link on a proxy gateway - the gateway doesn't have the resources to run it, and it'd be painfully slow besides). I don't know how effective this tool will be running "on the inside". The only other options I have for running it personally are on systems with sysadmins that I do not fully trust. I'd like to enlist the help of someone to probe my site - but for obvious reasons, it must be someone trustworthy. What's a sysadmin to do? :) > we need to do that here too.... > let me know if your get it done.. > I can set it up on REF.tfs.com and we can use it as a service to beat on each > other's systems :) > > > > "Sean McGee" writes: > > >So, who's going to port SATAN so that we have some kind of defense? > > > > Who has ported perl5? We must have that as a tool to make SATAN work. > > > > ---- > > Richard Wackerbarth > > rkw@dataplex.net > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:34:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA29852 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:34:34 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA29830; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:34:02 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? To: bmk@dtr.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: julian@tfs.com, rkw@dataplex.net, smmcgee@ncbc.edu, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050223.TAA21370@dtr.com> from "bmk@dtr.com" at Apr 4, 95 07:23:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2006 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well as I said we could use ref, as the sysads here are about to want to do that anyhow, and it's 'my' machine and it's 'OUTSIDE' our firewall, it'd probably be a good choice.. it has a T1 almost to itself, particularly after today when sysad turn off all our internet access in response to SATAN being released.. (they are turning up all the dials on the routers so that effectively only mail and news will get in and even then only to 1 machine) when they've had time to play with SATAN they hope to relax it a bit more.. if we get it ported,and it can run on a 1.1.5.1 machine I offer ref up and we can try set up guest accounts to known people to try it against their own systems. > > I'm going to have a go at porting perl5 tonight - I'll let everyone know > how it goes. > > One thing bothers me. I can run SATAN locally to test my own network, > but I have no capability to run it remotely. The only other network > that I have sufficient access to is not very well connected (all access > to the Internet is via a 9600bps SLIP link on a proxy gateway - the > gateway doesn't have the resources to run it, and it'd be painfully slow > besides). I don't know how effective this tool will be running "on the > inside". The only other options I have for running it personally are on > systems with sysadmins that I do not fully trust. > > I'd like to enlist the help of someone to probe my site - but for > obvious reasons, it must be someone trustworthy. > > What's a sysadmin to do? :) > > > we need to do that here too.... > > > let me know if your get it done.. > > I can set it up on REF.tfs.com and we can use it as a service to beat on each > > other's systems :) > > > > > > > "Sean McGee" writes: > > > >So, who's going to port SATAN so that we have some kind of defense? > > > > > > Who has ported perl5? We must have that as a tool to make SATAN work. > > > > > > ---- > > > Richard Wackerbarth > > > rkw@dataplex.net > > > > > > > > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 19:38:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA00179 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:38:19 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA00173 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:38:16 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA05673; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:37:50 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504050237.TAA05673@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Apr 4, 95 09:14:00 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 671 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For FreeBSD something similar could be implemented, although I suggest > adding an entry in kenrel config indicating if a given driver is capable > of being probed twice so that we don't have to modify all the drivers > at once. If the driver isn't a two-pass driver, it would be probed > only during the second pass, which would be equivalent to the pass > that is done now. > > Comments? > Good Thinking! All the SCSI-drivers are candidates, as well as any disk or CDROM drivers. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 20:33:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01323 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:33:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA01316; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:33:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bill Fenner cc: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 15:30:23 PDT." <95Apr4.153027pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 20:33:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1315.797052816@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The 3.5 multicast release will contain lots of IGMP fixes (plus a lot of > other kernel fixes/changes), and I hope to have it ported to FreeBSD soon. > Any volunteers to do testing? I'll bite.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 20:35:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01359 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:35:19 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01353 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:35:16 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA09378; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:34:44 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504050234.TAA09378@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com (Steve Gerakines) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050016.UAA05612@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Apr 4, 95 08:16:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1993 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The "ready for output in input" errors are par for the course. Ignore them. > > I thought I heard that the current maintainer of the driver was going to > > get rid of them by 2.1, but they're still there. > > I submitted a patch some time ago but nobody committed it. There was also > a fix in there to keep the motor from being activated during the probe for > people who do not have tape drives. I re-sent this fix to Rod a couple of > weeks ago but I'm not sure what he's doing with it. I have tested the patch here, and it is sitting in my tree ready for commit, I am waiting on Joerg Wunsch to finish his review of it (since I only had a drive to test with for a short time, and only one model of drive I felt it best to get a second review before commiting). > The fix within ft to avoid the messages works, but the correct way to > remove them is to get them out of the fd driver in the first place. In my > opinion they should only be debug messages, since it's not as if the user > can take some corrective action after seeing them. It would be nice if > someone did this before 2.1 is burned. Some one from the fdc driver camp care to comment about this? > Also, a number of people have reported to be having problems with the > driver recognizing their tape drives. They sound very much like > timing problems. At one time the timing characteristics of the driver > worked for almost everyone as long as your CPU and bus speed was not > on the extreme in either direction. It seems with PCI and/or pentium > systems this may no longer be the case. Has anyone examined the DELAY > (microtime?) function to see if it is running noticeably faster on those > systems? Bruce, do we need to something with the DELAY code? I have 4 different Pentiums here, 3 w/PCI if you need someone to run some test code. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 20:44:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01519 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:44:30 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01513 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:44:27 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA09413; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:43:52 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504050243.TAA09413@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504050024.AA23499@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 4, 95 06:24:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1474 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Serves you right for using the install utility to do the install > > > instead of using "cp -p". > > > > Ahh, and the overhead of calling chown, chgrp, and chmod is much better? > > 'I don't think so'. > > Since "cp -p" preserves this information, you are saying that the > copy in the source tree has the incorrect owner, group, and permissions. That is exactly what he is saying, the copy in the object tree has the owner, group and permissions of what ever process created it and what umask was in effect at the time. > This is something which should be corrected in the source tree. Doing > the correction post-facto elsewhere is bogus. Either way, your going to end up execing chown (it can do the chgrp) and chmod. Your basically arguing that there should not be an install binary at all, and that we should be gluing all sorts of stuff around cp to make it do the job. I don't totally agree, but then I don't totally disagree. This is a place that comprimises have to be made, and it seems to me that adding a -t option to install to have it preserve the source files timestamp on the target is a reasonable one. It sure is a lot less work than trying to replace install with cp -p. I am not so sure about having it do things like gzip, strip, symbolic links and all that other gunk though. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 20:47:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01634 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:47:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA01627; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:47:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 20:04:02 CDT." Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 20:47:22 -0700 Message-ID: <1626.797053642@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just got a call from Buslogic's VP of Engineering. He's sending me his full specs on this stuff.. Jordan > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > > Anyone have any performance results comparing the three types of > > > > buses? I'm interested in disk I/O performance and/or network > > > > I/O performance using the three buses and DMA. > > > > > > As a rule of thumb, PCI > EISA > ISA. > > > > Whose thumb are you looking at? 8-). > > > > VLB has a speed limit of 40MHz (typical cards die > 33MHz, though) > > PCI has a speed limit of 33MHz > > ISA has a speed limit of 12MHz > > EISA has a speed limit of bus clock (mine runs at 50MHz) > > A recent Buslogic marketing brochure I received claims that their > new EISA controllers (BT-747C & BT-757C) can run up to 66MB/second > using what they call enhanced master burst mode (EMB). I know > nothing more about it. > > > -- > Bob Willcox > bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) > Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 20:50:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01733 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:50:57 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01725 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:50:54 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA09440; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:50:19 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504050250.TAA09440@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 19:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 4, 95 05:35:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1864 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Whose thumb are you looking at? 8-). > > > > VLB has a speed limit of 40MHz (typical cards die > 33MHz, though) > > PCI has a speed limit of 33MHz > > ISA has a speed limit of 12MHz > > EISA has a speed limit of bus clock (mine runs at 50MHz) > hmmmm (quick check of EISA SPEC) > no, BUS speed on EISA != CPU clockspeed.. > > 1.3 Synchronous Data Transfer Protocol > [bla bla]....Burst cycles with up to 33MB/s data transfer rate. > > table in section 1.4.2 > [chop] > 16bit............16.5MB/sec.........EISA cards only > 32bit............33MB/sec...........EISA cards only > > 2.1.2 > BCLK ... [bla bla]... frequency between 8.333 MHz and 6MHz.....[bla bla] Humm.. what version of the EISA spec is this, mine is ``preliminary'' and it says 8 Mhz +/- 5%. They must have had to relax it on the lower end for some reason :-(. > PLUS > many other references that state that the EISA bus is based around the BCLK > signal.. > > > > > > > > > > For instance, a DX4/75 PCI has the same bus transfer rate as a DX/50 EISA. > > hmm probably the PCI is faster, because most EISA transfers take a number > of clock cycles... So do PCI transfers, infact it is almost the same number of clock cycles per transfer as EISA is. I dug it out once, but don't feel like doing it again right now. PCI is mainly faster because you usually run it at 25 or 33 Mhz in all known implementations. Yes, the spec says DC to 33Mhz, but every board I have ever seen runs the PCI bus at either some frequency directly related to the CPU frequency, or on it's own 33 Mhz crystal. The above sited DX4/75 is probably running the PCI bus at 25 Mhz, which would be 3 times as fast as the DX/50 EISA bus would run. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 21:07:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA02002 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:07:31 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01990 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:07:27 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id UAA09498; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:06:46 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504050306.UAA09498@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Julian Elischer" at Apr 4, 95 06:29:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1904 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [CC: trimmed] > > > > > > > > And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a > > > > > cockamamy way to fix it. > > > > > > > > It has nothing to do with make-like dependency capabilities. With the > > > > addition of that option, install now determines if it really needs to > > > > install the files rather than blindly doing it no matter what. > > > > > > I think Terry means this: > > > > > > ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG}: ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} > > > install ${COPY} ${STRIP} -m ${BINMODE} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${GINGRP} \ > > > ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} > > > > > > install: ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} > > > > Ahh, but what if ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}${PROG} was older than > > ${.OBJDIR}/${PROG} simply because it was deleted during a purge of > > /usr/obj. My arguement is that it doesn't *need* to be installed > > (especially in the case of libraries). > This is hte best argument I've heard for BOTH options.. > i.e. the dependencies under Make, AND the install that doesn't (sometimes) Hey, two more people in agreement. Or at least partly. I am not so sure about having install do the cmp, I think that part is best left externally. My reasoning here is that if the cmp is inside install we will exec both install and cmp no mater what, if we do a cmp || install it would be possible to save the exec of install if the cmp successeds. Using cksum is *not* the way to go, we already have Pouls benchmarks of cmp vs cksum on this, and cksum is not fail safe, it is possible for 2 files to have the same checksum but contain different data, very unlikely, but possible. I do see the need to have install have the -t option to copy time stamps. Bruce, would this mean we could drop the ranlib after installing libraries? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 21:12:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA02144 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:12:11 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA02138 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:12:09 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rwMQP-00030UC; Tue, 4 Apr 95 23:10 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:10:36 -0500 (CDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <1626.797053642@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 4, 95 08:47:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 528 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I just got a call from Buslogic's VP of Engineering. He's sending me his > full specs on this stuff.. Thats cool! I would like to know more about it. > > Jordan > > > > > A recent Buslogic marketing brochure I received claims that their > > new EISA controllers (BT-747C & BT-757C) can run up to 66MB/second > > using what they call enhanced master burst mode (EMB). I know > > nothing more about it. > > -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 21:17:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA02215 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:17:14 -0700 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA02209 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:17:11 -0700 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id NAA13550; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:16:42 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id NAA25653; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:16:40 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA00792; Wed, 5 Apr 95 13:16:39 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rwMcz-000AKlC; Wed, 5 Apr 95 13:23 JST Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 13:11:48 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9504050411.AA02781@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: Bill Fenner Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: IGMP bug References: <9504040118.AA00039@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> <95Apr4.153027pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Could you tell me more about this "too-fast" bug? Shortly, it is "new IGMP requires 2 bytes for igmp_code field, but it has just 1 byte." This is a bug in a protocol design, not just coding issue. >> timer = ntohs(igmp->igmp_code); > >Interestingly enough, igmp_code is a u_char. I suppose that byte-swapping >a char doesn't make a whole lot of sense =) Absolutely. A main part of mrouted (vif.c) passes a two byte value (an integral value larger than 255) as an expected timeout of membership query command to the packet building subroutine. (Sorry, I forgot the name. igmp_send() or something.) The subroutine just puts the value to igmp_code. (No htons() here. I don't know why.) So, the timeout value in an IGMP packet becomes a lower 8 bit of the required value. Shorter than the true timeout. On receiver side, igmp_input extract a byte value (igmp_code) and pass it to ntohs(). On big endian machines such as SparcStation, which is the "reference" machine of the multicast packages, ntohs() is a nop. So, igmp wait timer expires too fast. (Remember this value was a lower 8 bit of the true value.) On little endian machines such as "our" Intel chips, ntohs() swaps upper and lower bytes. In our particular case, it makes the value 256 times as large as what was in the packet. This value may larger or smaller than the original value (before truncation by mrouted) dpending on the bit-pattern of the value. In mrouted 3.3, it was toooo large. >The 3.5 multicast release will contain lots of IGMP fixes (plus a lot of >other kernel fixes/changes), When I found the bug, I asked a local mbone guru whether it is well known. He didn't know the particular bug, but he told me 3.5 would be release soon and 3.3 bug report at that time has less valuable. I received the announcement of multicast 3.5 from him. It just says, "IGMP handling is fixed; it is strongly recommended to replace all 3.3 codes with 3.5 codes." I had a feeling that this modest sentence referes to the "brain-damaged" design of so-called "new IGMP". :-) >I hope to have it ported to FreeBSD soon. YES! >Any volunteers to do testing? I will. Does the test start before 2.1 release? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 21:23:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA02257 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:23:09 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA02250 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:23:05 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA09399; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:26:47 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:26:47 -0600 Message-Id: <199504050426.WAA09399@trout.sri.MT.net> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: new install(1) utility In-Reply-To: <199504050306.UAA09498@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> References: <199504050306.UAA09498@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hey, two more people in agreement. Or at least partly. I am not > so sure about having install do the cmp, I think that part is best > left externally. My reasoning here is that if the cmp is inside > install we will exec both install and cmp no mater what, if we do a > cmp || install > it would be possible to save the exec of install if the cmp > successeds. I think Poul's ideas of using his memmap/memcmp is the way to go, and I think that's what Steven is doing. This is a much bigger win than even the regular cmp program (faster since it's very specific), and it does save us from doing the actual install. > Using cksum is *not* the way to go, we already have Pouls benchmarks > of cmp vs cksum on this, and cksum is not fail safe, it is possible > for 2 files to have the same checksum but contain different data, > very unlikely, but possible. I would have to see it to believe it. And, I don't remember any of Poul's benchmarks that you are speaking of just that he said his memmap/memcmp stuff for CTM was faster than cksums. > I do see the need to have install have the -t option to copy time > stamps. We are still going to have problems because libraries are going to be newer even if we save the timestamps. If I delete the library I used during installation, any library I build will have a different timestamp than the one I'm comparing against. > Bruce, would this mean we could drop the ranlib after installing > libraries? The ranlib option after install is a moot point IFF we no longer install the libraries if they are the same. Really, I'm going to quit following up after this. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 21:33:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA02308 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:33:08 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA02302 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:33:07 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA06504; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:32:37 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504050432.VAA06504@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 21:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, julian@tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050426.WAA09399@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 10:26:47 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1167 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Using cksum is *not* the way to go, we already have Pouls benchmarks > > of cmp vs cksum on this, and cksum is not fail safe, it is possible > > for 2 files to have the same checksum but contain different data, > > very unlikely, but possible. > > I would have to see it to believe it. And, I don't remember any of > Poul's benchmarks that you are speaking of just that he said his > memmap/memcmp stuff for CTM was faster than cksums. Well, to make the cksums you will have to read both files, lock stock and barrel. The CRC based checksums >HAVE< a window for collision, a byte for byte compare doesn't. Doing the compare is easier than the cksum, (1..3 instructions per 4 byte versus instructions). We have "install" in the vm-cache already, so exec'ing "cmp" will always take longer, plus the logic in the shell to look at the exit- code, plus people will invariably get it wrong in the Makefiles. QED: install is the place to do it, mmap+memcmp the way to do it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 22:23:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03629 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:23:57 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA03623 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:23:56 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, julian@tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050432.VAA06504@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 4, 95 09:32:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1038 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Using cksum is *not* the way to go, we already have Pouls benchmarks > > > of cmp vs cksum on this, and cksum is not fail safe, it is possible > > > for 2 files to have the same checksum but contain different data, > > > very unlikely, but possible. > > > > I would have to see it to believe it. And, I don't remember any of > > Poul's benchmarks that you are speaking of just that he said his > > memmap/memcmp stuff for CTM was faster than cksums. > > > We have "install" in the vm-cache already, so exec'ing "cmp" will > always take longer, plus the logic in the shell to look at the exit- > code, plus people will invariably get it wrong in the Makefiles. better yet to have make decide to not run it at ALL.. :) > > QED: install is the place to do it, mmap+memcmp the way to do it. I think there is a need for both. julian > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. > 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' > => 'no rude people are relevant' > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 22:35:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA03775 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:35:55 -0700 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA03769 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:35:52 -0700 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id OAA25564; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:35:11 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id OAA13297; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:35:10 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA04611; Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:35:09 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rwNqz-0004MDC; Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:42 JST Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:30:20 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9504050530.AA02941@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FreeBSD version macro? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hackers, In a device driver, I want to write an #if something like this: #if (This is FreeBSD 950210-SNAP or later) codes for 950210, 950322, or more recent -curret; #else codes for 2.0 RELEASE; #endif With what macro can I test this? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 23:01:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04120 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:01:02 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04110 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:00:59 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id CAA09235; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:00:30 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:00:30 -0400 From: steve2 (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504050600.CAA09235@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Also, a number of people have reported to be having problems with the > > driver recognizing their tape drives. They sound very much like > > timing problems. At one time the timing characteristics of the driver > > worked for almost everyone as long as your CPU and bus speed was not > > on the extreme in either direction. It seems with PCI and/or pentium > > systems this may no longer be the case. Has anyone examined the DELAY > > (microtime?) function to see if it is running noticeably faster on those > > systems? > > Bruce, do we need to something with the DELAY code? I have 4 different > Pentiums here, 3 w/PCI if you need someone to run some test code. This turned out to be the culprit. If you look at the code around line 1473 of the driver in ftintr_wait() it is doing: for (retries = 0; retries < 10000; retries++) { DELAY(100); ... } This used to allow up to 1 second for a recalibrate or seek to succeed before giving up but now it is a bit too fast for some systems. Someone had suggested a while back that the count be bumped up to 100000 and I thought that was a committed fix. I thought wrong. :-( I asked Paul Richards to bump up the retries to 20000 and increase the delay in that loop to 200. That should give us around 3-4 seconds and should be enough to avoid any further grief. If you're in there mucking around anyhow Rod maybe you could do this at the same time. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 23:05:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04247 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:05:50 -0700 Received: from grunt.grondar.za (grunt.grondar.za [196.7.18.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04239; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:05:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grunt.grondar.za (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA26304; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:04:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199504050604.IAA26304@grunt.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grunt.grondar.za: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 08:04:58 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'd like to enlist the help of someone to probe my site - but for > > obvious reasons, it must be someone trustworthy. > > > > What's a sysadmin to do? :) Hop onto your favourite WWW browser and look at http://all.net:8080/. They offer for a fee, or once-off for free, a hack-attack on your site followed up by a report to your site's postmaster. It includes SATAN. M I am in no way connected with them, just a happy customer. -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 23:16:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04421 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:16:03 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04415 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:15:59 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA09768; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:15:50 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504050515.WAA09768@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com (Steve Gerakines) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050600.CAA09235@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Apr 5, 95 02:00:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2322 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Also, a number of people have reported to be having problems with the > > > driver recognizing their tape drives. They sound very much like > > > timing problems. At one time the timing characteristics of the driver > > > worked for almost everyone as long as your CPU and bus speed was not > > > on the extreme in either direction. It seems with PCI and/or pentium > > > systems this may no longer be the case. Has anyone examined the DELAY > > > (microtime?) function to see if it is running noticeably faster on those > > > systems? > > > > Bruce, do we need to something with the DELAY code? I have 4 different > > Pentiums here, 3 w/PCI if you need someone to run some test code. > > This turned out to be the culprit. If you look at the code around line > 1473 of the driver in ftintr_wait() it is doing: > > for (retries = 0; retries < 10000; retries++) { > DELAY(100); > ... > } > > This used to allow up to 1 second for a recalibrate or seek to > succeed before giving up but now it is a bit too fast for some systems. > Someone had suggested a while back that the count be bumped up to > 100000 and I thought that was a committed fix. I thought wrong. :-( If infact this is not giving a full second for the operation to occur there is a problem in DELAY and we need to fix DELAY rather than hide the problem in ft.c. As sooner or later DELAY will get fixed for some other reason, and then we will have a needless long delay in ft.c. Can you point me to a system that is having this problem. I will find some code to test the kernel DELAY routine and have the person test it out. Bruce, do you know of any current problems with our DELAY code? > I asked Paul Richards to bump up the retries to 20000 and increase > the delay in that loop to 200. That should give us around 3-4 seconds > and should be enough to avoid any further grief. If you're in there > mucking around anyhow Rod maybe you could do this at the same time. Is this really the right thing to do? Somehow I have the feeling that 1 second is plenty of time for a seek operation to complete for any given floppy drive and the real bug is in the DELAY code. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 23:18:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04472 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:18:42 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04462 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:18:39 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id CAA09422; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:18:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:18:33 -0400 From: steve2 (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504050618.CAA09422@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I just got a call from Buslogic's VP of Engineering. He's sending me his > > full specs on this stuff.. > > Thats cool! I would like to know more about it. Where to get a good deal would be nice. :-) Do they come with a floppy disk controller on board? If so I would consider replacing my Ultrastor 24F with one. On the same note 1Gb hard drive prices have plummeted recently and I had my eye on a Seagate ST-31200N (SCSI-2) for around $500. Anyone have any comments on the drive? I ditched all my seagate drives years ago because they seemed to have some quality problems so I'm kind of hesitant to go back. OH! Any trouble mixing my existing SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 on the same ribbon? - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 23:22:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04504 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:22:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04498 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:22:50 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA06938; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:22:44 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504050622.XAA06938@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050515.WAA09768@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 10:15:50 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 568 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is this really the right thing to do? Somehow I have the feeling that > 1 second is plenty of time for a seek operation to complete for any > given floppy drive and the real bug is in the DELAY code. Hum, some of these commands require quite a number of "steps" to be taken, 50 or so I belive. What if this particular machine initializes the step rate to something slow like 20ms ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 23:32:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04578 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:32:36 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04572 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:32:32 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA09825; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:32:19 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504050532.WAA09825@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 22:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050622.XAA06938@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 4, 95 11:22:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 818 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Is this really the right thing to do? Somehow I have the feeling that > > 1 second is plenty of time for a seek operation to complete for any > > given floppy drive and the real bug is in the DELAY code. > > Hum, some of these commands require quite a number of "steps" to be taken, > 50 or so I belive. What if this particular machine initializes the step > rate to something slow like 20ms ? The first command we do after a controller reset in fd.c is to set the step rate to 3mS, head unload time to 240mS and the head load time to 2mS, and if we can't do that the probe is over, we well never get to the attach code that is having the problem :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Apr 4 23:38:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04736 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:38:35 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04730 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:38:34 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA07003; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:38:29 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504050638.XAA07003@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050532.WAA09825@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 10:32:19 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 497 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The first command we do after a controller reset in fd.c is to set the > step rate to 3mS, head unload time to 240mS and the head load time to > 2mS, and if we can't do that the probe is over, we well never get to > the attach code that is having the problem :-) > Hmm, shouldn't we inherit these from the BIOS ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 00:22:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09132 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:22:42 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09110 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:22:34 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04326; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:22:23 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA03730 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:22:22 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04588 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:00:06 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504050700.JAA04588@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:00:05 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504050234.TAA09378@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 07:34:43 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1374 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > I submitted a patch some time ago but nobody committed it. ... > > I have tested the patch here, and it is sitting in my tree ready for commit, > I am waiting on Joerg Wunsch to finish his review of it (since I only > had a drive to test with for a short time, and only one model of drive > I felt it best to get a second review before commiting). Sorry for not getting back on this... My old test machine crashed by the weekend. Unfortunately, it looks that my old (& cheap) Insight tape drive is disfunctional. So all i could do is to have a look at the patch (and it looks ok), without being able to actually test it with a floppy tape drive. Rod, go and commit it. I hope there are some other people with ft drives around who can finally test them, perhaps with the next snap release. > > The fix within ft to avoid the messages works, but the correct way to > > remove them is to get them out of the fd driver in the first place. ... > > Some one from the fdc driver camp care to comment about this? It's the topmost entry in my TODO list. I'm just sitting and wait for Rod to commit his changes. I promise 2.1 will not complain too much about ``ready for output in input''... :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 00:22:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09158 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:22:49 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09138 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:22:43 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04330; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:22:24 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA03733 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:22:23 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04789 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:11:39 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504050711.JAA04789@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:11:38 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504042336.QAA04227@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 4, 95 04:36:18 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 633 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > I wonder if this is the case for non-x86 machines as well, since I > > suspect memcpy() uses the fast string routines available on x86 > > machines. (Btw., other CPUs might also have fast string operations -- they are FRI's.) > The trick is that you use page-faults instead of read() to get to the > file. And as a nice side-effect: the source file is pre-faulted entirely, so if it needs to be installed, the source will come right out of the cache! -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 00:23:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09203 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:23:02 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09117 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:22:38 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04338; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:22:26 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA03736 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:22:24 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04921 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:20:28 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504050720.JAA04921@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Removeable media support To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:20:27 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "Mark J. Taylor" at Apr 4, 95 01:23:37 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 918 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Mark J. Taylor wrote: > > But, MO technology is MUCH MUCH faster than tape, and looks just like > another SCSI hard drive. The IMHO most important thing (that's why i plan to use some disk-type removable media drive in near future): you have a direct access medium. While i still prefer making my dumps with tapes, i would go and backup old mails, news archives etc. to removable disks. I can then run elm, a newsreader, or grep on the archive -- hard to do with a tape drive, impossible to do with a cartridge tape drive. :) Besides MO technology, Iomega's recently announced new drives (i think the call'em ``zipdrives'') come to mind. They provide 100 MB at a reasonable price for the drive (much less than an 128 MB MO drive), and with comparable medium costs. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 00:31:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09555 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:31:17 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09547 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:31:16 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA07162; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:30:04 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504050730.AAA07162@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Removeable media support To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050720.JAA04921@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 5, 95 09:20:27 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 768 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Mark J. Taylor wrote: > > > > But, MO technology is MUCH MUCH faster than tape, and looks just like > > another SCSI hard drive. Uhm, be aware that MO technology is a slow writer, since it must pass over each track twice to write, once to erase, once to write... > Besides MO technology, Iomega's recently announced new drives (i think > the call'em ``zipdrives'') come to mind. They provide 100 MB at a > reasonable price for the drive (much less than an 128 MB MO drive), > and with comparable medium costs. I'm very interested in this drive, if anybody has any experience ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 00:48:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10000 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:48:47 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09991 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:48:43 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA25357 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:43:23 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Wed, 5 Apr 95 11:43:22 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA00742; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:42:23 +0400 To: Sujal Patel Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, Steven Wallace References: In-Reply-To: ; from Sujal Patel at Tue, 4 Apr 1995 20:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:42:23 +0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.32 FreeBSD] From: "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Lines: 14 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 644 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Sujal Patel writes: >It seems like the Linux 1.2? kernel has all virtually the same driver we >use. Even if this is true, the program which I tested is very simple and >should work on any version of the sound drivers (post 2.9). If you mean sources, yes. If binaries - no. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 01:09:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA10784 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:09:54 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA10778 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:09:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA09897 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:09:12 -0600 Message-Id: <199504050809.CAA09897@rover.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip over telnet In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 30 Mar 1995 09:59:48 PST Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 02:09:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One idea for getting SLIP over telnet (binary mode, I assume, 8 bit clean) would be to run TIA, The Internet Adapter. Costs $25, but it seems to work well enough for what most people want. I'm sorry if this blantant commercialism is out of place on this list. I just thought I'd offer a solution. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 01:18:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA11059 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:18:46 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA11051 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:18:42 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA10030; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:14:55 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504050714.AAA10030@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050700.JAA04588@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 5, 95 09:00:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1787 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > I submitted a patch some time ago but nobody committed it. ... > > > > I have tested the patch here, and it is sitting in my tree ready for commit, > > I am waiting on Joerg Wunsch to finish his review of it (since I only > > had a drive to test with for a short time, and only one model of drive > > I felt it best to get a second review before commiting). > > Sorry for not getting back on this... My old test machine crashed by > the weekend. > > Unfortunately, it looks that my old (& cheap) Insight tape drive is > disfunctional. So all i could do is to have a look at the patch (and > it looks ok), without being able to actually test it with a floppy > tape drive. > > Rod, go and commit it. I hope there are some other people with ft > drives around who can finally test them, perhaps with the next snap > release. Okay, unless some one steps forward as an alternate ft driver change tester by tomarrow I will commit what I have to the tree. It has been tested on the Colorado 250 only, the changes are rather small so I can send anyone who would be willing to test this a patch. > > > The fix within ft to avoid the messages works, but the correct way to > > > remove them is to get them out of the fd driver in the first place. ... > > > > Some one from the fdc driver camp care to comment about this? > > It's the topmost entry in my TODO list. I'm just sitting and wait for > Rod to commit his changes. This commit will be done one way or the other by 23:59 PST Apr 5th. > I promise 2.1 will not complain too much about ``ready for output in > input''... :) :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 01:43:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA11661 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:43:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA11654; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 01:42:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip over telnet In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 02:09:12 MDT." <199504050809.CAA09897@rover.village.org> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 01:42:58 -0700 Message-ID: <11653.797071378@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One idea for getting SLIP over telnet (binary mode, I assume, 8 bit > clean) would be to run TIA, The Internet Adapter. Costs $25, but it > seems to work well enough for what most people want. > > I'm sorry if this blantant commercialism is out of place on this list. > I just thought I'd offer a solution. Not at all - just say a LITTLE more about it, is all! :-) How does it work? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 02:59:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA13905 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:59:24 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA13899 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 02:59:22 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id FAA03821; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:59:11 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504050959.FAA03821@hda.com> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Cc: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050234.TAA09378@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 07:34:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2046 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > > > > > > The "ready for output in input" errors are par for the course. Ignore them. > > > I thought I heard that the current maintainer of the driver was going to > > > get rid of them by 2.1, but they're still there. > > > > I submitted a patch some time ago but nobody committed it. There was also > > a fix in there to keep the motor from being activated during the probe for > > people who do not have tape drives. I re-sent this fix to Rod a couple of > > weeks ago but I'm not sure what he's doing with it. > > I have tested the patch here, and it is sitting in my tree ready for commit, > I am waiting on Joerg Wunsch to finish his review of it (since I only > had a drive to test with for a short time, and only one model of drive > I felt it best to get a second review before commiting). > > > The fix within ft to avoid the messages works, but the correct way to > > remove them is to get them out of the fd driver in the first place. In my > > opinion they should only be debug messages, since it's not as if the user > > can take some corrective action after seeing them. It would be nice if > > someone did this before 2.1 is burned. > > Some one from the fdc driver camp care to comment about this? I'll say something since I put the warning in (but I think there is really only one person in the FDC driver camp...). It was a problem that this warning complained about that caused the "2.0 boot floppy fails on Micronics motherboard" problem, which is why I added the warning. If we take it out it perhaps a similar problem will creap back in. At the time I put in the warning I figured we could eliminate all the problems this indicated. If I was wrong and this really isn't indicative of a problem in the driver logic then by all means rip it out. I don't have a floppy tape and don't get any of these warnings. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 04:02:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA15554 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:02:01 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA15548 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:01:58 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA08412; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:01:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA00175; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:01:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199504051101.EAA00175@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Bruce Evans cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 20:52:05 +1000." <199504051052.UAA16461@godzilla.zeta.org.au> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 04:01:43 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>which is kind of curious, as the machine has 16 MB ram and almost >>>no activity going on... Swap partition, when in use, are always >>>reported with at least 64 KB in use. >>> >>>Is there any explaination ? > >> The first swap block is always pre-allocated. This was done to work around >>a problem with people putting their swap partition at the beginning of their >>disk (the system would happily try to destroy the label). I suppose it would >>be better to change swapinfo/pstat to not include the first block of swap >>space in its report. > >There must be bugs in the write protection of the label for that to happen. > >The diskslice "driver" snoops on writes to label sector(s) and rejects >writing of invalid labels even when write protection is off. > >Similar snooping is required for protecting the MBR and secondary BR's. There were two manifestations. It would either destroy your label (I think this was in the SCSI case) or it would get EROFS when the swap pager tried to page something out to it. I think the 'destroy your label' problem was fixed awhile ago. Now the pager just fails with the EROFS. ...Anyway, the first chunk can't be used. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 04:02:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA15608 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:02:57 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA15586 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:02:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA00336; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:48:51 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504051048.MAA00336@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:48:51 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504042340.QAA00208@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 4, 95 04:39:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1175 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >no activity going on... Swap partition, when in use, are always > >reported with at least 64 KB in use. > > > >Is there any explaination ? > > The first swap block is always pre-allocated. This was done to work around > a problem with people putting their swap partition at the beginning of their > disk (the system would happily try to destroy the label). I suppose it would > be better to change swapinfo/pstat to not include the first block of swap > space in its report. That depends. Seeing "Used" > 0 is a nice reminder that the partition is in use and you cannot unmount it (whatever it means; I am playing with vnodes and swap-on-files these days). Also, given the above explaination, that 64K are really lost swap space, so it is better to keep it in the statistics. It doesn't hurt, once you know why. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 04:05:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA15796 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:05:16 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA15782 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:04:57 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA16461; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:52:05 +1000 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:52:05 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051052.UAA16461@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>which is kind of curious, as the machine has 16 MB ram and almost >>no activity going on... Swap partition, when in use, are always >>reported with at least 64 KB in use. >> >>Is there any explaination ? > The first swap block is always pre-allocated. This was done to work around >a problem with people putting their swap partition at the beginning of their >disk (the system would happily try to destroy the label). I suppose it would >be better to change swapinfo/pstat to not include the first block of swap >space in its report. There must be bugs in the write protection of the label for that to happen. The diskslice "driver" snoops on writes to label sector(s) and rejects writing of invalid labels even when write protection is off. Similar snooping is required for protecting the MBR and secondary BR's. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 04:54:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA17961 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:54:20 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA17947 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 04:53:50 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA17966; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:52:15 +1000 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:52:15 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051152.VAA17966@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I've rewritten install(1) to include the following options: >(1) -S -- Symlink are created instead of moving (copying) the file. >(2) -t -- Preserve the timestamp of the source file on target file. I'd like these options: -T -- If source data == target data, then preserve target timestamp. Otherwise do the same as -t. This is useful for avoiding changing target timestamps that other things depend on. E.g., for header files, the target timestamp should normally be preserved if possible. -F -- if source timestamp == target timestamp, then do nothing. Otherwise do a full install and print a warning giving the source and target timestamps. This is useful for rerunning `make install' on a large tree soon after you've done a full install. E.g., immediately after installing with -t it would tell you if everything got installed with the correct timestamps; immediately after installing with -T it would tell you if there are too many or too old targets; a little later, after rebuilding a few scattered targets, you might want to reinstall the whole tree to avoid missing anything, and -F should be faster. Perhaps there should be options: --timestamp-greatest -- set target timestamp to max(source, target) timestamps. --timestamp-smallest -- if source data == target data, then set target timestamp to min(source, target) timestamps. Otherwise do the same as -t. -n -- don't actually install, but print what would be done without -n. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 05:07:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA18295 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:07:51 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA18284 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:07:47 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA20680 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:44:01 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA03871; 5 Apr 95 06:43:12 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA03868; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:43:11 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504051143.GAA03868@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:43:11 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Apr 4, 95 09:14:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 338 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The solution was to create two probing passes. The system would > effectively call each devices' probe routine twice. How about generalizing it? If there's a big delay, have the probe return a flag saying "more work to do, call me again after you've asked everyone else". That way you could handle multi-stage delays, like with SCSI. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 05:21:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA18527 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:21:34 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA18521 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:21:31 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA03407; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:21:45 +0800 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:21:45 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > > Who has ported perl5? We must have that as a tool to make SATAN work. Ignorant comment to come... I compiled perl5001 without any problems on my machine when it was running 950210. Not having ever used perl myself (except to look at other people's scripts), I can't say for sure it works, except that it passed the test suite that comes with the package. How else should I test it? 512 -r-xr-xr-x 2 root bin 512000 Mar 21 09:59 perl5.001* 512 -r-s--x--x 2 root bin 512000 Mar 21 09:59 sperl5.001* -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 05:24:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA18548 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:24:32 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA18542 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:24:30 -0700 Received: from starkhome.UUCP (root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id IAA10989 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:24:25 -0400 Received: by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/1.34) id IAA03116; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:17:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:17:47 -0400 From: starkhome!gene@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (Gene Stark) Message-Id: <199504051217.IAA03116@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: CS.cmu.edu!moto@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: sbstark!CS.cmu.edu!moto's message of Tue, 04 Apr 1995 21:02:22 -0400 Subject: process migration or DSM Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm planning to do some research about distributed systems, especially >in the field like process migration/replication, distributed shared >memory, load balancing (or any other interesting things). I'd like to >use FreeBSD as a test bed for this purpose. The reason why I'd choose >FreeBSD rather than other existing experimental OSes is that I'd like >to do something useful and practical. If you know someone who is doing >related things, please let me know. Any information (tech pointer, >suggestion, disagreement or whatever) will also be appreciated. Thanks! I have written an experimental distributed shared memory system that runs under FreeBSD 1.1.5.1. I was planning on making it available on the net, but I have not found the time to do the sort of more extensive exercising of it that I wanted to do before releasing it (also, I made the mistake of trying to get a student to write the exerciser programs for it and I didn't get anything useful out of it). Of course, now there is also the issue of porting it to 2.1. I am still interested in working on this, and if I heard that there were people who were really interested, that might motivate me to give it a higher priority. - Gene Stark From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 05:24:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA18556 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:24:34 -0700 Received: from sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu [130.245.1.47]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA18550 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 05:24:32 -0700 Received: from starkhome.UUCP (root@localhost) by sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id IAA10995 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:24:28 -0400 Received: by starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu (8.6.11/1.34) id IAA03139; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:23:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:23:59 -0400 From: starkhome!gene@sbstark.cs.sunysb.edu (Gene Stark) Message-Id: <199504051223.IAA03139@starkhome.cs.sunysb.edu> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: "Rodney W. Grimes"'s message of Wed, 5 Apr 1995 00:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Okay, unless some one steps forward as an alternate ft driver change >tester by tomarrow I will commit what I have to the tree. It has >been tested on the Colorado 250 only, the changes are rather small >so I can send anyone who would be willing to test this a patch. >This commit will be done one way or the other by 23:59 PST Apr 5th. Well, I would offer to test, but I can't operate that quickly. If you commit the change, I will certainly yell if something breaks. - Gene From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 06:34:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA19911 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:34:18 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA19890 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:33:58 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id XAA20445; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:31:23 +1000 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:31:23 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051331.XAA20445@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, steve2@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> timing problems. At one time the timing characteristics of the driver >> worked for almost everyone as long as your CPU and bus speed was not >> on the extreme in either direction. It seems with PCI and/or pentium >> systems this may no longer be the case. Has anyone examined the DELAY >> (microtime?) function to see if it is running noticeably faster on those >> systems? >Bruce, do we need to something with the DELAY code? I have 4 different >Pentiums here, 3 w/PCI if you need someone to run some test code. DELAY(n) is currently only guaranteed to delay for n - 20 + small_machine_dependent_delay(machine(time)) microseconds. small_machine_dependent_delay(machine(time)) is a rapidly decreasing positive function of time :-). You could add 20 to guarantee a minimal delay, but then DELAY(1) would take much too long on slow machines and too long on most machines. Use the kernel option DELAYDEBUG to get some boot-time calibration. Add another test `for (n1 = 0; n1 < 1000000[0...]; ++n1) DELAY(20);' and use a stopwatch to see how wrong DELAY(20) is. The calibration should be done in the kernel. This requires 1) finding a suitable clock calibrate against. The 8254 clock is suitable, but nit very easy to use because it has a small maximum count and DELAY() is first run with interrupts disabled so it can't depend on clock interrupts to keep track of counter overflows. 2) recalibration often enough to allow variations in machine speed. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 06:52:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA20364 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:52:48 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA20358 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:52:46 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rwVVw-00030oC; Wed, 5 Apr 95 08:52 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:52:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504051101.EAA00175@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 5, 95 04:01:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1613 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman wrote: > > >>>which is kind of curious, as the machine has 16 MB ram and almost > >>>no activity going on... Swap partition, when in use, are always > >>>reported with at least 64 KB in use. > >>> > >>>Is there any explaination ? > > > >> The first swap block is always pre-allocated. This was done to work around > >>a problem with people putting their swap partition at the beginning of their > >>disk (the system would happily try to destroy the label). I suppose it would > >>be better to change swapinfo/pstat to not include the first block of swap > >>space in its report. > > > >There must be bugs in the write protection of the label for that to happen. > > > >The diskslice "driver" snoops on writes to label sector(s) and rejects > >writing of invalid labels even when write protection is off. > > > >Similar snooping is required for protecting the MBR and secondary BR's. > > There were two manifestations. It would either destroy your label (I think > this was in the SCSI case) or it would get EROFS when the swap pager tried to > page something out to it. I think the 'destroy your label' problem was fixed > awhile ago. Now the pager just fails with the EROFS. ...Anyway, the first > chunk can't be used. Would this explain these errors (the EROFS on SCSI) on my 1.1.5.1 system? If so, are they harmful? I have been getting them for some time (since I added the disk with the swap partition starting at the beginning of the disk :-() but haven't been able to attribute any other problems to them. -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 06:56:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA20456 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:56:17 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA20445 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:56:14 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA08690; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:56:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA00192; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:56:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199504051356.GAA00192@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 08:52:56 CDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 06:56:10 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> There were two manifestations. It would either destroy your label (I think >> this was in the SCSI case) or it would get EROFS when the swap pager tried to >> page something out to it. I think the 'destroy your label' problem was fixed >> awhile ago. Now the pager just fails with the EROFS. ...Anyway, the first >> chunk can't be used. > >Would this explain these errors (the EROFS on SCSI) on my 1.1.5.1 >system? Yes, that's what is causing them. > If so, are they harmful? Not fatal...but not at all desired. It might lead to the death of the process with a segfault at a later time. > I have been getting them for some >time (since I added the disk with the swap partition starting at >the beginning of the disk :-() but haven't been able to attribute >any other problems to them. I highly recommend changing the disk label on the drive to have the swap partition start at cylinder 1 rather than cylinder 0. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:20:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21181 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:20:33 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21151 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:20:05 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA21676; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:16:45 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:16:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051416.AAA21676@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, steve2@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Bruce, do we need to something with the DELAY code? I have 4 different >> Pentiums here, 3 w/PCI if you need someone to run some test code. >This turned out to be the culprit. If you look at the code around line >1473 of the driver in ftintr_wait() it is doing: > for (retries = 0; retries < 10000; retries++) { > DELAY(100); > ... > } >This used to allow up to 1 second for a recalibrate or seek to >succeed before giving up but now it is a bit too fast for some systems. ^^^ It allows at least 0.8 seconds, probably closer to 1.0 than 0.8. >Someone had suggested a while back that the count be bumped up to >100000 and I thought that was a committed fix. I thought wrong. :-( I think a factor of 10 larger can't be right (unless 1 second was never right :-). There should be an interface to a global counter. E.g., DELAY() could simply increment a counter for each tick that it notices (it can be changed a little so that it is guaranteed to notice all ticks provided it is called at least once every 10msec). Then the above loop could be better written as; extern volatile u_long proposed_counter; u_long start_count, end_count; reset_proposed_counter(); /* avoid overflow */ proposed_counter = start_count; end_count = start_count + 1000000 * proposed_counter_freq; do { DELAY(100); /* maybe less */ ... } while (proposed_counter < end_count); Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:22:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21268 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:22:12 -0700 Received: from saul3.u.washington.edu (spaz@saul3.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA21261 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:22:10 -0700 Received: by saul3.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.02/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA22503; Wed, 5 Apr 95 07:22:09 -0700 X-Sender: spaz@saul3.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:22:08 -0700 (PDT) From: John Utz To: FreeBSD hackerlist Subject: slip on 3-22 snap Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello is slip configured diffewrently on the 3-22 snap then what is described in the slip.FAQ ? ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:23:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21326 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:23:15 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA21301 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:23:04 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 18:21 GMT+0400 From: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: 2.0-RELEASE and SNAP-032295 reboots the system during installation X-Mailer: GNOS 2.3.2b Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Guys! It might look like asking the question about installation of 2.0 is a little overkill but other channels seem to be silent. The problem: I'm trying to install FreeBSD 2.0 on the machine that were running linux before (for months), 16 megs of RAM, Adaptedx Adaptec 1542C, Cirrus Logic VGA card (don't remember the model, can look it up if it matters), SMC 8013 TPC Ethernet card. Machine is VLB. The question: where could I pick up the 1.44 boot floppy with FreeBSD that _works_ snapshots seemed to be suited for 1.2 I dd this staff: reboots the system either :-( Any pointers would be helpful. I've heard other people out there are experiencing the same problem either. Thanx. AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:29:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21479 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:29:54 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21462 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:28:33 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02120 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:05:01 +0200 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:05:01 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199504051405.QAA02120@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: hylafax-v3.0beta112 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've compiled & installed hylafax-v3.0beta112, it took no customising whatever :-) However .... I'm back to the bad old days with faxaddmodem: Hmm, something seems to be hung, check your modem eh? well at least it also says /usr/local/bin/bash: /tmp/addmodem1468: Cannot clobber existing file which gives me a clue, I also got console: FaxGetty[1378]: Could not create FIFO "FIFO.ttyd1". a quick cd /var/spool/fax ; chmod 777 . stopped that, but at the moment my fax is dead :-( (& I want it to drum up some work) at least ports/felxfax worked with outgoing on my SUpraFax, I guess its just a config Question, PS I looked at the patches in ports/*/flexfax/patches/ , no usefull clues there though anyone else have hylafax working ? anyone want to fiddle with it too ? (I know theres a hylafax mail list, but im on too many lists already) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:34:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21782 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:34:28 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21461 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:28:29 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02125 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:09:34 +0200 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:09:34 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Message-Id: <199504051409.QAA02125@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: colour a4 scanner + scsi interface 699 DM Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I see Conrad selling colour a4 scanner + scsi interface at 699 DM in Munich Germany (Model is Paragon 600), sounds cheap, if I could get my fax modem working, it would be worth getting one to make a complete scanner + fax + laser combo, I could then do photocopying & proper fax send & recieve - software permitting, any comments from anyone who's ever tried to drive scsi scanners ? BTW I suppose there's about 1.5 DM / USA $ (or about 2.2~ DM per UK Sterling ) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:38:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21940 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:38:14 -0700 Received: from isl.cf.ac.uk (isl-gate.elsy.cf.ac.uk [131.251.22.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21926 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:38:03 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by isl.cf.ac.uk (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA04210; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:37:35 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199504051437.PAA04210@isl.cf.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:37:35 +0100 (BST) Cc: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050515.WAA09768@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 10:15:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1375 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Rodney W. Grimes who said > > If infact this is not giving a full second for the operation to occur > there is a problem in DELAY and we need to fix DELAY rather than > hide the problem in ft.c. As sooner or later DELAY will get fixed > for some other reason, and then we will have a needless long delay > in ft.c. > > Can you point me to a system that is having this problem. I will > find some code to test the kernel DELAY routine and have the person > test it out. My system's (Gateway P5-90) got the problem. I had to bump the delay from 100 to 150 in order to get the tape recognised. > Is this really the right thing to do? Somehow I have the feeling that > 1 second is plenty of time for a seek operation to complete for any > given floppy drive and the real bug is in the DELAY code. I'm reluctant to do this too since DELAY shouldn't have to be tweaked for different hardware. If we can fix the delay problem before 2.1 then that's the correct thing to do but I'll test the tape driver before we release and if it's still not working I'll bump the delay until it does just to hack around the problem. -- Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, URL: http://isl.cf.ac.uk/~paul/ Phone: +44 1222 874000 x6646 (work), +44 1222 457651 (home) Dept. Mechanical Engineering, University of Wales, College Cardiff. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:40:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA21991 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:40:12 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA21831 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:35:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA02043; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:45:24 +0200 Message-Id: <199504051345.PAA02043@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Paul F. Werkowski" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 1995 16:29:18 +0200." <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 15:45:23 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I found buried in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" Thanks for mentioning this exists, I found it as: /usr/ports/print/ghostscript/work/gs261/ unix-lpr.doc & unix-lpr.sh & lprsetup.sh Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 07:43:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA22038 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:43:09 -0700 Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA22030 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 07:43:05 -0700 Received: (joeg@localhost) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id JAA08425; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:38:55 -0500 From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199504051438.JAA08425@flowbee.interaccess.com> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com (Steve Gerakines) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:38:55 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joeg@truenorth.org In-Reply-To: <199504050618.CAA09422@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Apr 5, 95 02:18:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1124 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ DELETED ] > >On the same note 1Gb hard drive prices have plummeted recently and I >had my eye on a Seagate ST-31200N (SCSI-2) for around $500. Anyone >have any comments on the drive? I ditched all my seagate drives >years ago because they seemed to have some quality problems so I'm >kind of hesitant to go back. > I have a ST-31200N in my FreeBSD machine. I bought it in Feb. of 94 and paid $725.00 for it :-(. I installed FreeBSD 1.1 on it when I bought it and it has been running continuously since then. It is currently running the 950322 snap without any trouble. I have found the ST-31200N to be a solid, reliable drive. I would recomend it to anyone. >OH! Any trouble mixing my existing SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 on the same >ribbon? If your controller card was SCSI-2 and the devices were a mixture of SCSI-1 and SCSI-2, my guess would be that you should be ok. I'm sure that if I am wrong, I will br corrected. :-) > >- Steve >steve2@genesis.tiac.net > Josef -- Josef Grosch | joeg@truenorth.org | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." finger for my | - Buckaroo Banzai - public PGP key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 08:32:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22785 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:32:51 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22779 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:32:50 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA08556; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:32:01 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504051532.IAA08556@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504051101.EAA00175@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Apr 5, 95 04:01:43 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 722 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Similar snooping is required for protecting the MBR and secondary BR's. > > There were two manifestations. It would either destroy your label (I think > this was in the SCSI case) or it would get EROFS when the swap pager tried to > page something out to it. I think the 'destroy your label' problem was fixed > awhile ago. Now the pager just fails with the EROFS. ...Anyway, the first > chunk can't be used. And I can actually think of a couple of usefull uses for that chunk of data. Extending the message-buffer comes to mind... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 08:35:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22822 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:35:35 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22816 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:35:34 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA08540; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:30:25 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504051530.IAA08540@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: davidg@Root.COM, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504051052.UAA16461@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 5, 95 08:52:05 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 818 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The first swap block is always pre-allocated. This was done to work around > >a problem with people putting their swap partition at the beginning of their > >disk (the system would happily try to destroy the label). I suppose it would > >be better to change swapinfo/pstat to not include the first block of swap > >space in its report. > > There must be bugs in the write protection of the label for that to happen. > > The diskslice "driver" snoops on writes to label sector(s) and rejects > writing of invalid labels even when write protection is off. Sure, but then you would crash with a "swap pager write error" instead... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 08:37:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22864 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:37:06 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22858 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:37:05 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA08584; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:36:49 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504051536.IAA08584@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504051143.GAA03868@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 5, 95 06:43:11 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 638 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The solution was to create two probing passes. The system would > > effectively call each devices' probe routine twice. > > How about generalizing it? If there's a big delay, have the probe return a > flag saying "more work to do, call me again after you've asked everyone else". > That way you could handle multi-stage delays, like with SCSI. I'd say the right thing to do would be to get the timer flying and make a "HW-probe-attach" process... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 08:39:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA22890 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:39:37 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA22883 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:39:34 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id LAA14133; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:39:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:39:25 -0400 From: steve2 (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504051539.LAA14133@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I asked Paul Richards to bump up the retries to 20000 and increase > > the delay in that loop to 200. That should give us around 3-4 seconds > > and should be enough to avoid any further grief. If you're in there > > mucking around anyhow Rod maybe you could do this at the same time. > > Is this really the right thing to do? Somehow I have the feeling that > 1 second is plenty of time for a seek operation to complete for any > given floppy drive and the real bug is in the DELAY code. Bumping it up to 2 seconds wouldn't hurt. Even if DELAY wasn't running faster, if people have a screwy fdc (and what fdc isn't screwy? :-)) the extra time for the recalibrate would be better. I'd rather have a little extra time than be on the edge of failure for some systems. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 08:56:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA23117 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:56:02 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA23106 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 08:55:37 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA24115; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:48:27 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:48:27 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051548.BAA24115@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: swap always use at least 64KB ? Cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.org, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > The first swap block is always pre-allocated. This was done to work around >> >a problem with people putting their swap partition at the beginning of their >> >disk (the system would happily try to destroy the label). I suppose it would >> ... >> The diskslice "driver" snoops on writes to label sector(s) and rejects >> writing of invalid labels even when write protection is off. >Sure, but then you would crash with a "swap pager write error" instead... FITNR (Reboot). The fix will be obvious because the slice driver prints verbose error messages :-). Actually, they are less verbose in this case. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 09:30:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA23576 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:30:44 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA23559 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:29:05 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14557(3)>; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:18:11 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:17:58 -0700 To: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI cc: Bill Fenner , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: IGMP bug In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 95 21:11:48 PDT." <9504050411.AA02781@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:17:54 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr5.091758pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <9504050411.AA02781@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> you write: >>Could you tell me more about this "too-fast" bug? > >Shortly, it is "new IGMP requires 2 bytes for igmp_code field, but it >has just 1 byte." This is a bug in a protocol design, not just coding >issue. No, it is "The reference implementation of IGMPv2 doesn't implement IGMPv2". IGMPv2 only requires a single byte. The mrouted code is simply a bug. >When I found the bug, I asked a local mbone guru whether it is well >known. He didn't know the particular bug, but he told me 3.5 would be >release soon and 3.3 bug report at that time has less valuable. 3.3 kernel bugs are *extremely* valuable; if a kernel bug gets reported it might get fixed =) Immediately before a new release strikes me as a wonderful time to report bugs. >>Any volunteers to do testing? > >I will. > >Does the test start before 2.1 release? The SunOS kernel code is nearly done. I can make the same changes to the FreeBSD-current kernel code, but cannot test it here (I am at IETF, and although I installed FreeBSD on one of the PC's, it has a 3c509 and the ep driver doesn't have multicast and I haven't yet had the energy to hack on the driver.). Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 09:49:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA23723 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:49:51 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA23717 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:49:49 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA09306; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:49:13 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504051649.JAA09306@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504042355.RAA08239@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Apr 4, 95 05:55:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1637 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Nate Williams: > > > > > Almost to the point of having a ${PROG}.stripped rule (you'r cmp thing > > in install is going to have to compare a stripped version of programs > > or it will always fail for the standard binary case). > > Hmm, I had forgotten about the strip option. Sigh.. > > However, for the parts of the system that bite us the most the smart install > is a good solution. We don't have to use it for everything (or anything for > that matter), but for those files which do affect the dependencies, I think > it would be a big win. > This isn't much of a problem. The stripping done by install is the first operation done to the source file. In its simplest form, install does if copy make_copy if strip if gzip rename copy to target set owner, group, flags on target else if strip if gzip if move rename as target set owner, group, flags on target else symlink set owner, group, flags on source create symlink end end However, after wading through my mail this morning, the symlink option may be a Bad Idea (although I learned a lot about symlinks). FOR EXAMPLE: %cd /usr/src %make world [where symlink /usr/bin/install -> /usr/src/usr.bin/xinstall/xinstall occurs] %make clean The symlink now points to a deleted xinstall binary. Removing the symlink option will actually make the layout of install much easier to follow. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 09:52:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA23770 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:52:11 -0700 Received: from silicon.csci.csusb.edu (silicon.csci.csusb.edu [139.182.38.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA23747 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:51:52 -0700 Received: from orion.csci.csusb.edu by silicon.csci.csusb.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA23782; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:56:15 +0800 Received: by orion.csci.csusb.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA07245; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:51:38 +0800 From: nwestfal@silicon.csci.csusb.edu (Neal Westfall) Message-Id: <9504051651.AA07245@orion.csci.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: Slip over telnet To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050809.CAA09897@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Apr 5, 95 02:09:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 832 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There is a new alternative to TIA, and it's free. It also comes with source, in fact the author states that he took the TCP/IP code from the FreeBSD 2.0R sources. The program is called slirp, and it seems to work better than TIA, at least for me. It is still alpha. It supports port redirection, and the author also intends to add PPP support. You can ftp SLiRP updates and patches from ftp://blitzen.canberra.edu.au/pub/slirp ftp://freedom.wit.com/misc4/danjo/SLiRP > One idea for getting SLIP over telnet (binary mode, I assume, 8 bit > clean) would be to run TIA, The Internet Adapter. Costs $25, but it > seems to work well enough for what most people want. > > I'm sorry if this blantant commercialism is out of place on this list. > I just thought I'd offer a solution. > > Warner > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 10:25:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24141 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:25:49 -0700 Received: from cs.pdx.edu (cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.183]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24135 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:25:46 -0700 Received: from sirius.cs.pdx.edu (root@sirius.cs.pdx.edu [131.252.20.199]) by cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-12/23/94-P) with ESMTP id JAA20344; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:47:29 -0700 for Received: from localhost (jrb@localhost.cs.pdx.edu [127.0.0.1]) by sirius.cs.pdx.edu (8.6.10/CATastrophe-9/18/94-C) with ESMTP id JAA09959; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:46:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199504051646.JAA09959@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 1995 17:27:17 -0000." <199504031727.RAA05512@star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 09:46:17 -0700 From: James Binkley Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio, Can you tell us where to find vic for freebsd? It's at LL somewhere I believe? Just a note: Thanks to amancio's prodding I've got vat working with his vat driver hacks, and a gus 3.7. Output works. Mike doesn't work yet. I'll have to play with it. amancio says his mike works. Currently staring at some IETF lunchtime madness... Jim Binkley jrb@cs.pdx.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 10:27:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24158 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:27:48 -0700 Received: from po8.andrew.cmu.edu (PO8.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.108]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24151 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:27:45 -0700 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po8.andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA10228; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:42 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jan.26.1995.18.43.47.sun4c.411.EzMail.Phred.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504051438.JAA08425@flowbee.interaccess.com> References: <199504051438.JAA08425@flowbee.interaccess.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 5-Apr-95 Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance by Joe Grosch@interaccess.c > >OH! Any trouble mixing my existing SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 on the same > >ribbon? > > If your controller card was SCSI-2 and the devices were a mixture of > SCSI-1 and SCSI-2, my guess would be that you should be ok. I'm sure > that if I am wrong, I will br corrected. :-) Should be fine. I have two SCSI1 devices (Archive 2150 tape and some trashy NEC 2x CD-ROM) and a SCSI2 device (Micropolis 4110S - 1gig scsi) all hanging off of the same chain ties to my 1542C. Also, the seatgate 31200 (or whatever, the 1gig Hawk drive) is supposed to be pretty good but have fairly agressive cooling requirements. So just be sure that you meet whatever cooling requirements the drive comes with. Its not as bad as their Barracudas, but I've still heard of failures. alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 10:27:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24164 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:27:49 -0700 Received: from po8.andrew.cmu.edu (PO8.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.108]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24153 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:27:47 -0700 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po8.andrew.cmu.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA10228; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:42 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jan.26.1995.18.43.47.sun4c.411.EzMail.Phred.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs19.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:27:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504051438.JAA08425@flowbee.interaccess.com> References: <199504051438.JAA08425@flowbee.interaccess.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Excerpts from internet.computing.freebsd-hackers: 5-Apr-95 Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance by Joe Grosch@interaccess.c > >OH! Any trouble mixing my existing SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 on the same > >ribbon? > > If your controller card was SCSI-2 and the devices were a mixture of > SCSI-1 and SCSI-2, my guess would be that you should be ok. I'm sure > that if I am wrong, I will br corrected. :-) Should be fine. I have two SCSI1 devices (Archive 2150 tape and some trashy NEC 2x CD-ROM) and a SCSI2 device (Micropolis 4110S - 1gig scsi) all hanging off of the same chain ties to my 1542C. Also, the seatgate 31200 (or whatever, the 1gig Hawk drive) is supposed to be pretty good but have fairly agressive cooling requirements. So just be sure that you meet whatever cooling requirements the drive comes with. Its not as bad as their Barracudas, but I've still heard of failures. alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 10:40:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24389 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:40:13 -0700 Received: from obiwan.pmr.com (obiwan.pmr.com [199.98.84.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA24383 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:40:11 -0700 Received: by obiwan.pmr.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0rwZ3y-00030hC; Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:40 CDT Message-Id: From: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox) Subject: Re: 2.0-RELEASE and SNAP-032295 reboots the system during installation To: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:40:18 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 5, 95 06:21:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1157 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anthony Graphics wrote: > > Hi Guys! > It might look like asking the question about installation of 2.0 > is a little overkill but other channels seem to be silent. > The problem: I'm trying to install FreeBSD 2.0 on the machine > that were running linux before (for months), 16 megs of RAM, > Adaptedx > Adaptec 1542C, Cirrus Logic VGA card (don't remember the model, > can look it up if it matters), SMC 8013 TPC Ethernet card. > Machine is VLB. > The question: where could I pick up the 1.44 boot floppy with FreeBSD > that _works_ snapshots seemed to be suited for 1.2 > I dd this staff: reboots the system either :-( > Any pointers would be helpful. I've heard other people out there > are experiencing the same problem either. The boot and cpio disks will work on either 1.2 or 1.44 diskettes. You will need to tell us more specifics about the failure you are experiencing. You have given us little to go on so far. For example, where in boot/install process do you get to when your system reboots? Are ther messages listed a the time of the reboot? > Thanx. > AGL > -- Bob Willcox bob@obiwan.pmr.com (or obiwan%bob@uunet.uu.net) Austin, TX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 10:42:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24417 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:42:56 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24411 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:42:51 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA26590; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 03:38:48 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 03:38:48 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051738.DAA26590@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > The solution was to create two probing passes. The system would >> > effectively call each devices' probe routine twice. >> >> How about generalizing it? If there's a big delay, have the probe return a >> flag saying "more work to do, call me again after you've asked everyone else". >> That way you could handle multi-stage delays, like with SCSI. >I'd say the right thing to do would be to get the timer flying and make >a "HW-probe-attach" process... lkm'ed drivers will make this both easier and harder. Easier because they will have an process context to sleep on so they won't need to call DELAY() for long delays. Harder because they must leave the device in a safe state before sleeping and because they must not call DELAY() for delays longer than are acceptable in normal operation (perhaps 100usec max). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 10:45:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA24466 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:45:34 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24460 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:45:32 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id NAA00762; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:45:32 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504051745.NAA00762@hda.com> Subject: National Instruments LABPC+ To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:45:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 373 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have any need for a National Instruments "Lab PC+" driver? I've written one but it only supports what I need. I'll be happy to add anything you need if you send me your requirements. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:08:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA24637 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:08:11 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA24629 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:08:05 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA27217; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 04:04:19 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 04:04:19 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051804.EAA27217@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Hmmm... this could produce a decent timesavings. >> >> Yes, this would in effect do the same thing as the -t option you have >> now and save a tremendous amount of re-linking of files since the >> timestamps would not change. >Bah humbug. >[settled points deleted] >And jamming make-like dependency capability into install is a >cockamamy way to fix it. Putting install-like capabilities into install would be worse. It would need builtins for: - checking that the target uid, gid and mode are correct - checking that the target links are correct. These checks could be done by shell commands but that would probably take longer than always installing. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:21:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA24800 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:21:26 -0700 Received: from bigdipper.umd.edu (bigdipper.umd.edu [128.8.220.139]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA24794 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:21:24 -0700 Received: (from adhir@localhost) by bigdipper.umd.edu (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA06923; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:45:37 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:45:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Alok K. Dhir" To: Matt Thomas cc: Michael Vernick , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance In-Reply-To: <199504041833.SAA10697@whydos.lkg.dec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been unable to find a 100 mbit hub so far - how is one supposed to take advantage of these 100mbit cards w/o a 100mbit hub? Thanks... On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Matt Thomas wrote: > > Anyone have any performance results comparing the three types of > > buses? I'm interested in disk I/O performance and/or network > > I/O performance using the three buses and DMA. > > As a rule of thumb, PCI > EISA > ISA. > > > Also, someone mentioned that the DEC DE500-XA network card is being > > supported. Is it a PCI 100Mb/Sec card? > > It is. Just about 10 minutes ago I got > > de1 rev 17 int a irq 15 on pci0:8 > reg20: virtual=0xf1d05100 physical=0x20000100 size=0x80 > de1: enabling 10baseT UTP port > de1: DC21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.1 ethernet address 08:00:2b:e1:06:07 > > to work. > -------------------------------------___--------------------------------- | Al Dhir, Programmer Analyst /___\ UMCP Ag-Engineering Dept | | Internet: adhir@bigdipper.umd.edu (o o) (301) 405-1197 | ---------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo----------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:33:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA24997 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:33:45 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA24991 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:33:42 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00686; Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:25:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504051825.AA00686@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:25:56 MDT Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, steve2@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504051437.PAA04210@isl.cf.ac.uk> from "Paul Richards" at Apr 5, 95 03:37:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Is this really the right thing to do? Somehow I have the feeling that > > 1 second is plenty of time for a seek operation to complete for any > > given floppy drive and the real bug is in the DELAY code. > > I'm reluctant to do this too since DELAY shouldn't have to be tweaked for > different hardware. If we can fix the delay problem before 2.1 then that's > the correct thing to do but I'll test the tape driver before we release > and if it's still not working I'll bump the delay until it does just to > hack around the problem. That DELAY is hardware dependent is an inevitable side effect of the fact that it is not implemented using real timer code. I won't argue the demerits of this (again... this time), but the hardware independence requirement of such an implementation is a calibration phase for the delay loop (see the keyboard code in "The Undocumented PC" and the Linux DELAY code). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:35:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25026 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:35:13 -0700 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25020 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:35:06 -0700 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id UAA15902; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:34:30 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199504051834.UAA15902@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: Tristan Taylor Kamp To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:34:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504012350.PAA22768@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 1, 95 03:50:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 674 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > Rita Taylor & Poul-Henning Kamp > > are please to announce that > > Tristan Taylor Kamp > > Arrived kicking and screaming march 31st 1995 at 22:00 Pacific time. > Congratulations!!!! Now the real life starts (awakening at every silly hour etc. ;-)) When are you going to upload a gif with the proad family ;-))) (or better: an MBONE broadcast...) > > The mother is doing well and has been hanging on the telephone > for hours already. > Usually a good sign with women ;-) > The dad is ready to fall apart and should not be expected to answer > email anytime soon... See? It already started ;-) -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:43:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25138 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:43:29 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25132 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:43:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.9/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA11010; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:42:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199504051842.MAA11010@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Slip over telnet Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 05 Apr 1995 01:42:58 PDT Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 12:42:44 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ tia ] : How does it work? It is kinda sorta a user level TCP/IP implementation. On the tty it talks SLIP to a remote host, and on the other side it talks to the internet. There are some limintations in doing this, but all outbound and many inbound applications work. Think of it as a term replacement that uses SLIP rather than term's transport layer. It also means you don't have to have special versions of the utilities that are term-aware. There is some magic in TIA to make things like ftp and X work that require inbound connections. You can find more information about TIA at ftp://marketplace.com/ Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:43:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25126 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:43:13 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25120 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:43:12 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA01349; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:32:30 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504051832.UAA01349@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: colour a4 scanner + scsi interface 699 DM To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:32:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504051409.QAA02125@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 5, 95 04:09:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 114 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW I suppose there's about 1.5 DM / USA $ It used to be. (not that the Lira is doing much better :< ) Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:45:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA25188 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:45:53 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA25182 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:45:52 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA00795; Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:39:03 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504051839.AA00795@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:39:03 MDT Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org In-Reply-To: <199504051738.DAA26590@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 6, 95 03:38:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I'd say the right thing to do would be to get the timer flying and make > >a "HW-probe-attach" process... > > lkm'ed drivers will make this both easier and harder. Easier because they > will have an process context to sleep on so they won't need to call DELAY() > for long delays. Harder because they must leave the device in a safe state > before sleeping and because they must not call DELAY() for delays longer > than are acceptable in normal operation (perhaps 100usec max). Yay, kernel high resoloution timers and one-shots! Yay, kernel preemption and multithreading! Boo, work involved! Free Rah, Rah, Rah! Bee Rah, Rah, Rah! Ess Rah, Rah, Rah! Dee Rah, Rah, Rah! Free Bee Ess Dee Probe, Probe Probe! Yay, team! Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 11:53:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAB25290 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:53:44 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA25284 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:53:40 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.9/8.3) id OAA01204; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:53:40 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199504051853.OAA01204@hda.com> Subject: spl() and LKM To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:53:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1813 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I realize now that the driver I've been testing using an LKM doesn't have the interrupt mask set up properly, and I assume that the "reconfigurable" devices if_ze and if_zp don't work properly (when they aren't on at initial boot) either. I've tried to install a driver at tty_mask but spltty() isn't masking off the interrupt. Here is what I'm doing right now. I originally had something neater, but I wanted to see if by brute force copying what isa_configure does at the end of its configuration pass I couldn't get it to work properly: > void > isa_device_install(isdp, mp) > struct isa_device *isdp; > u_int *mp; > { > struct isa_device *dvp; > > int s = splhigh(); > > config_isadev_c(isdp, mp, 0); > > for (dvp = isa_devtab_tty; dvp->id_driver; dvp++) > register_imask(dvp, tty_imask); > register_imask(isdp, tty_imask); > for (dvp = isa_devtab_bio; dvp->id_driver; dvp++) > register_imask(dvp, bio_imask); > register_imask(isdp, bio_imask); > for (dvp = isa_devtab_net; dvp->id_driver; dvp++) > register_imask(dvp, net_imask); > register_imask(isdp, net_imask); > for (dvp = isa_devtab_null; dvp->id_driver; dvp++) > register_imask(dvp, SWI_CLOCK_MASK); > register_imask(isdp, SWI_CLOCK_MASK); > > splx(s); > } I'm calling this like: > isa_device_install(&isa_labpc, &tty_imask); The "register_intr" in config_isadev_c is working fine since my interrupt is called just fine. The problem is that spltty() doesn't mask it off. I expected this brute force recalculation of intr_mask[] and intr_mptr[] would get me a basis to work from, but no go. Can anyone suggest the right way to get this to work? -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:06:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA25493 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:06:24 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA25487 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:06:22 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11618; Wed, 5 Apr 95 11:11:57 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504051611.AA11618@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Slip over telnet To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:11:57 -0500 (CDT) Cc: imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11653.797071378@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 5, 95 01:42:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1159 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One idea for getting SLIP over telnet (binary mode, I assume, 8 bit > > clean) would be to run TIA, The Internet Adapter. Costs $25, but it > > seems to work well enough for what most people want. > > > > I'm sorry if this blantant commercialism is out of place on this list. > > I just thought I'd offer a solution. > > Not at all - just say a LITTLE more about it, is all! :-) > > How does it work? tia is a SLIP emulator. It resides as a user process on a UNIX system, and basically opens "proxy" TCP connections using the system calls on the host UNIX system. This is actually quite slick, but isn't horribly complicated or difficult... This means that TIA cannot do certain things. However, it also means that it's easier to configure and use: since the IP addresses involved between the remote SLIP client and TIA don't have to be "perfectly correct", it tends to be easier for newbies to use. And yes, it works under FreeBSD. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:07:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA25541 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:07:52 -0700 Received: from sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (eastham.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu [146.245.1.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA25535 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:07:48 -0700 Received: from robeson.brooklyn.cuny.edu (robeson.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu) by sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1a) id AA00546; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:07:36 EDT Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:07:36 EDT From: dayton@sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu (Dayton Clark) Message-Id: <9504051907.AA00546@sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu> Received: by robeson.brooklyn.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29799; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:07:32 EDT To: dufault@hda.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504051745.NAA00762@hda.com> (message from Peter Dufault on Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:45:32 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: National Instruments LABPC+ Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk <.> From: Peter Dufault <.> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:45:32 -0400 (EDT) <.> Content-Type: text <.> Content-Length: 373 <.> Precedence: bulk <.> <.> Does anyone have any need for a National Instruments "Lab PC+" driver? <.> I've written one but it only supports what I need. I'll be happy to add <.> anything you need if you send me your requirements. <.> <.> Peter <.> <.> -- <.> Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation <.> HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 <.> dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 <.> I'm starting a project that will use the Lab PC+ and FreeBSD. I don't yet know what particular requirements I'll need from the PC+ but I'd love to see your driver. thanks dayton _________ _____/ D \_____________ | | | Dayton Clark | | CIS Department | | Brooklyn College/CUNY | | Brooklyn, New York 11210 | | | | 718/951-4811 | | dayton@brooklyn.cuny.edu | |___________________________| From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:17:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA25998 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:17:35 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (root@palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA25988 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:17:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA00859 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:13:04 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 1995 12:39:03 MDT." <9504051839.AA00795@cs.weber.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <855.797109181.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 20:13:02 +0100 Message-ID: <856.797109182@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <9504051839.AA00795@cs.weber.edu>, Terry Lambert writes: > [...] >Free Rah, Rah, Rah! >Bee Rah, Rah, Rah! >Ess Rah, Rah, Rah! >Dee Rah, Rah, Rah! >Free Bee Ess Dee Probe, Probe Probe! >Yay, team! > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu Oh oh. Terry's flipped :-) Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:23:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26215 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:23:29 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26209 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:23:29 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id MAA09376; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:23:15 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504051923.MAA09376@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <856.797109182@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Apr 5, 95 08:13:02 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 580 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <9504051839.AA00795@cs.weber.edu>, Terry Lambert writes: > > [...] > > >Free Rah, Rah, Rah! > >Bee Rah, Rah, Rah! > >Ess Rah, Rah, Rah! > >Dee Rah, Rah, Rah! > > >Free Bee Ess Dee Probe, Probe Probe! > > >Yay, team! > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@cs.weber.edu > > Oh oh. Terry's flipped :-) What makes you think that ? It looks like a pretty normal Terryism to me ... :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:30:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26479 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:30:28 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA26473 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:30:26 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: National Instruments LABPC+ To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504051745.NAA00762@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 5, 95 01:45:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 550 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk post to usent and send a copy to 'national Labs, so they can add in their brochure.. "FreeBSD driver available" julian (can't hurt to check it in..) > > Does anyone have any need for a National Instruments "Lab PC+" driver? > I've written one but it only supports what I need. I'll be happy to add > anything you need if you send me your requirements. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation > HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 > dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:42:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26737 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:42:59 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26729 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:42:54 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA28922; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:41:13 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:41:13 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504051941.FAA28922@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, steve2@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >That DELAY is hardware dependent is an inevitable side effect of >the fact that it is not implemented using real timer code. It is implemented using real timer code. Read the code before commenting. >I won't argue the demerits of this (again... this time), but the >hardware independence requirement of such an implementation is a >calibration phase for the delay loop (see the keyboard code in "The >Undocumented PC" and the Linux DELAY code). The Linux DELAY code is better calibrated for short delays (unless the machine speed is changed after calibration) but inaccurate for long delays. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:44:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26766 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:44:27 -0700 Received: from saul5.u.washington.edu (spaz@saul5.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA26760 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:44:25 -0700 Received: by saul5.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.02/UW-NDC Revision: 2.32 ) id AA10119; Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:42:57 -0700 X-Sender: spaz@saul5.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:42:56 -0700 (PDT) From: John Utz To: Joe Greco Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip over telnet In-Reply-To: <9504051611.AA11618@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ummmm... On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Joe Greco wrote: ... tia operational explanation context ... ... > the remote SLIP client and TIA don't have to be "perfectly correct", it > tends to be easier for newbies to use. > > And yes, it works under FreeBSD. ahmm.. did u mean the freebsd netstuff is happy to visit it? or did u mean that there is a tia binary that runs on freebsd...inquiring minds would really like to know... ( as mentioned in a previous post, you can also do slirp, it is free and has src ) > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 12:50:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA26981 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:50:19 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA26973 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 12:50:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01341; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:44:21 GMT Message-Id: <199504051144.LAA01341@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: James Binkley cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 1995 09:46:17 MST." <199504051646.JAA09959@sirius.cs.pdx.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 11:44:18 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> James Binkley said: > > Amancio, > > Can you tell us where to find vic for freebsd? It's at LL > somewhere I believe? Well, you can find it at freebsd.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/ports/vic And guys don't forget that James Lowe wrote the vat driver. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 13:49:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA29146 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:49:19 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA29138 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:49:13 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA01355; Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:40:21 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504052040.AA01355@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: phk@ref.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:40:21 MDT Cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504051923.MAA09376@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 5, 95 12:23:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >Free Rah, Rah, Rah! > > >Bee Rah, Rah, Rah! > > >Ess Rah, Rah, Rah! > > >Dee Rah, Rah, Rah! > > > > >Free Bee Ess Dee Probe, Probe Probe! > > > > >Yay, team! > > > > Oh oh. Terry's flipped :-) > > What makes you think that ? > > It looks like a pretty normal Terryism to me ... :-) Actually, it's stolen from the UCLA fight cheer. UCLA just won big, and it was on my mind and seemed apropriate at the time. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 13:52:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA29395 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:52:42 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA29386 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:52:36 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA00685; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:53:35 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18803 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:52:41 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA09553 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:50:35 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA02370; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:31:17 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504042131.XAA02370@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 23:31:17 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, terry@cs.weber.edu, PVinci@ix.netcom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504041720.KAA07847@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 4, 95 10:20:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1452 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > thus cutting effective bandwidth by 20%. It is actually worse than > > > this in that all writes must write to at least 2 drives no matter how > > > small they are. The removes some of the benifits of stripping. > > > > And that is why some RAID systems use (battery backed up please ;-) RAM > > caches. This works quite nicely. > > And you find these caches will fill up and some point in a sustained > write test and you end up right back at the 20% performance loss I > was talking about. Sure, that is the nature of caches..;-) But for sustained writes you'd probably go for RAID3 (parallel writes on multiple disks) iso RAID5 where you hope that the I/O more or less evenly distributes on each chunk/disk. The EXOR for the RAID5 can also be done in hardware. > Pure stripping of drives always outperforms RAID, you always pay some > price for reliability, and it is usually performance or $$$. Throw some money at it and mirror the stripe sets. Do this controller based in the disksubsystem and your host doesnot have the overhead (which should not be too much when properly implemented on the right hardware even when host based) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 14:08:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA00310 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:08:05 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA00302 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:08:02 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA01453; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:00:51 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504052100.AA01453@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:00:51 MDT Cc: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, steve2@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504051941.FAA28922@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 6, 95 05:41:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >That DELAY is hardware dependent is an inevitable side effect of > >the fact that it is not implemented using real timer code. > > It is implemented using real timer code. Read the code before > commenting. Oh, well, then the symptoms being reported aren't happening. 8-). I didn't realize real timer code had been implemented where a kernel thread switch occurrs and a timer event is scheduled instead of blocking the kernel thread that called DELAY until the time period has expired. Guess this means the kernel is real close to being SMP clean, since multiple threads executing in the kernel simultaneously is the main attribute of both SMP and a preemptible multithreaded kernel. I guess the only thing left is cache coherency for multiply accessed or common memory areas and interrupt delivery arbitration so that any processer can take the interrupt. Guess it also means that since the timer outcall is scheduled and the kernel continues executing, probe calls to long DELAY intervals are actually overlapped (as was recently suggested) and we no longer have to see the "waiting for devices to settle" on SCSI subprobes. This is cool. I suppose this real timer code is in the next snap? Unfortunately, I can't find it in the current one. I suppose these changes have also been documented for the maintainer of the ft so that the ft command can be integrated as a kernel thread? Oh, and with kernel threads available, I'd like to now suggest that the NFS and BIOD code be rewritten to take advantage of this significant advancement. Whoever is woring on the LFS should probably move the cleaner in as a kernel thread without a process context; this would definitely make it more responsive, as well as delaing with one of the two major impediments standing in the way of mounting multiple LFS partitions simultaneously. Oh, and if anyone wants to move AMD in as a kernel thread, I'm sure you would end up being a god for removing the visibile name space pollution the current user space implementation causes, not to mention the coresidency problems for multiple AMD instances. What? The real timer code and the necessary kernel support to make it usable isn't really there yet? Drat! That's what "real timer code" means. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 14:10:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA00415 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:10:41 -0700 Received: from slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (mbarkah@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU [138.67.1.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA00409 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:10:39 -0700 Received: by slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA50159; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:10:35 -0600 From: mbarkah@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Ade Barkah) Message-Id: <9504052110.AA50159@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU> Subject: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:10:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 421 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk With regards to some recent discussion about porting lsof 3.25, Vic Abell (the author) today integrated the FreeBSD 2.0 port into the distribution. lsof is a utility to list open files by processes, and many prefer it to fstat. The 2.0 port is complete, including being tested on NFS drives. Lsof is available by anon ftp from vic.cc.purdue.edu in the directory /pub/tools/unix/lsof, and its mirror sites. -Ade Barkah From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 14:38:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA01832 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:38:43 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01821 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:38:29 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA31128; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 07:34:03 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 07:34:03 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504052134.HAA31128@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kargl@troutmask.apl.washington.edu, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > obvious if they don't match, and doing cksums on both files would be >> > much faster than the 'cmp' IMHO. >> >> Funny you should mention, I just ran some experiments (for CTM), and the >> fastest thing you can do is to mmap both files and memcmp them... There are many reasons why checksumming might be slower, especially if it isn't implemented carefully. Checksumming can only be faster if you can usually avoid reading the target. A non-hashed database in a single file would be very slow. You would have to use a hashed database. Writing the database would add a lot of overhead. This would be more of a problem for install than for ctm since files are unfortunately often installed one at a time so the database would have to be opened and closed a lot. >I wonder if this is the case for non-x86 machines as well, since I >suspect memcpy() uses the fast string routines available on x86 >machines. What fast string routines? On i486's, "rep cmpsd" is about than twice as slow as an unrolled loop written in C, assuming that all the data is in the cache. Sequential reads will bust the cache, so all reasonably good comparison and simple checksum routines will be approximately as slow as main memory. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 14:40:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA01921 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:40:59 -0700 Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@Seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA01915 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:40:57 -0700 Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.9/8.6.9.1) id OAA24013 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:40:54 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199504052140.OAA24013@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: devices going offline To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:40:53 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 299 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings! When an external device has the capability of being manually taken offline during an operation, should the driver automatically resume when the device returns online? Or, abort the operation in progress (signalling an error)? Or, prompt (how?) for user intervention?? Thx, --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 14:57:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA02483 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:57:15 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA02446 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:55:51 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02554; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:55:25 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id XAA07423 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:55:24 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA06500 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:43:18 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504052143.XAA06500@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Removeable media support To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:43:17 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504050730.AAA07162@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 5, 95 00:30:04 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1145 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > But, MO technology is MUCH MUCH faster than tape, and looks just like > > > another SCSI hard drive. > > Uhm, be aware that MO technology is a slow writer, since it must pass over > each track twice to write, once to erase, once to write... Wasn't it three times? One to erase, one to write the 1-bits, one to write the 0-bits. Anyway, Sony did further development, and they claim to get it all in one by now. > > Besides MO technology, Iomega's recently announced new drives (i think > > the call'em ``zipdrives'') come to mind. They provide 100 MB at a > > reasonable price for the drive (much less than an 128 MB MO drive), > > and with comparable medium costs. > > I'm very interested in this drive, if anybody has any experience ? They are rather new, perhaps they've been published for the first time at the CeBit. The figures floating around in Usenet claim DM 350 for a drive and around DM 30 for a 100 MB medium. The drives are said to be SCSI. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 14:58:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA02521 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:58:47 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA02515 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:58:37 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id HAA31671; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 07:56:12 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 07:56:12 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504052156.HAA31671@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, paul@isl.cf.ac.uk, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, steve2@freefall.cdrom.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >That DELAY is hardware dependent is an inevitable side effect of >> >the fact that it is not implemented using real timer code. >> >> It is implemented using real timer code. Read the code before >> commenting. >Oh, well, then the symptoms being reported aren't happening. 8-). >I didn't realize real timer code had been implemented where a >kernel thread switch occurrs and a timer event is scheduled instead >of blocking the kernel thread that called DELAY until the time period >has expired. It's implemented using a real timer (an 8254). It just spins on the timer. It isn't real time code :-). Actually it would be if interrupts were always disabled - then a minimal machine-delay could be guaranteed. The Linux delay routine spins on a loop that was calibrated at boot time. Since there are caches and interrupts around, it isn't possible to guarantee accuracy. It's easier to guarantee that spinning on the timer takes >= the specified time. Some drivers would break if DELAY() could be preempted. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 15:01:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA02632 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:01:08 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA02438 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:55:31 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02542; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:55:15 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id XAA07407 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:55:14 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA06406 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:14:24 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504052114.XAA06406@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Colorado Jumbo 250MB ft, and FreeBSD 2.0R To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:14:23 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504050959.FAA03821@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Apr 5, 95 05:59:11 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1017 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Peter Dufault wrote: > > > Some one from the fdc driver camp care to comment about this? > > It was a problem that this warning complained about that caused > the "2.0 boot floppy fails on Micronics motherboard" problem, which > is why I added the warning. ... > I don't have a floppy tape and don't get any of these warnings. Boot with ``-c'' and set flag 0x1 for fdc0... Ok, i'm still thinking about the problem. My current believe is either do only enable them when booting with `-v' (easy case), or don't complain during the initial device probe phase (that's the only case where polling makes sense -- and the problem results out of the ft driver polling the FDC), and only enable the messages after the kernel went up. This way, the messages won't be lost for serious problems, but they won't bother people for things that actually are not error conditions. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 15:01:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA02657 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:01:40 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA02447 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:55:57 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02562; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:55:27 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id XAA07429; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:55:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA06550; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:48:38 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504052148.XAA06550@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.0-RELEASE and SNAP-032295 reboots the system during installation To: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:48:38 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Graphics" at Apr 5, 95 06:21:00 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 355 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Anthony Graphics wrote: > > Hi Guys! > It might look like asking the question about installation of 2.0 > is a little overkill but other channels seem to be silent. At which stage did it reboot the system? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 15:03:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA02687 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:03:45 -0700 Received: from marmite.Stanford.EDU (2842@marmite.Stanford.EDU [36.159.0.58]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02681 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:03:44 -0700 Received: (hlew@localhost) by marmite.Stanford.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.4) id PAA19836; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:02:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Howard Lew To: Joe Greco cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip over telnet In-Reply-To: <9504051611.AA11618@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Joe Greco wrote: > > > One idea for getting SLIP over telnet (binary mode, I assume, 8 bit > > > clean) would be to run TIA, The Internet Adapter. Costs $25, but it > > > seems to work well enough for what most people want. > > > > > > I'm sorry if this blantant commercialism is out of place on this list. > > > I just thought I'd offer a solution. > > > > Not at all - just say a LITTLE more about it, is all! :-) > > > > How does it work? > > tia is a SLIP emulator. It resides as a user process on a UNIX system, and > basically opens "proxy" TCP connections using the system calls on the host > UNIX system. This is actually quite slick, but isn't horribly complicated > or difficult... > > This means that TIA cannot do certain things. However, it also means that > it's easier to configure and use: since the IP addresses involved between > the remote SLIP client and TIA don't have to be "perfectly correct", it > tends to be easier for newbies to use. > > And yes, it works under FreeBSD. > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > I used to use TIA and run FreeBSD with it, but it is not as reliable. The ftp problem I used to have seems to be caused by TIA closing ftp connections rather randomly. TIA tends to lockup quite frequently too. Nevertheless, TIA is the next best thing to a real SLIP/PPP. You can even have a second dummy address like 192.0.2.4 hooked up to your 192.0.2.1 FreeBSD box connected via TIA to the Internet and both of them can access the Internet! -= Howard =-k From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 15:14:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA02975 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:14:37 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA02961 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:14:17 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA31978; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:11:45 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:11:45 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504052211.IAA31978@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >An include file change in one file will cause all of the libraries to >be re-compiled that depend on it, but it doesn't *necessarily* mean that >there were any changes in the library or it's functionality. >If the libraries don't differ at a binary level, there weren't any >changes, so they library doesn't need to be installed. The .a libraries will differ. They contain timestamps :-(. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 15:33:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA03426 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:33:05 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA03415 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:32:55 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA32320; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:29:10 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:29:10 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504052229.IAA32320@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@tfs.com, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: new install(1) utility Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I do see the need to have install have the -t option to copy time stamps. >Bruce, would this mean we could drop the ranlib after installing libraries? Yes. I think `-t' is a better name for the option than `-p' because only the timestamp is preserved. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 15:34:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA03444 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:34:11 -0700 Received: from anvil.appsmiths.com (anvil.appsmiths.com [198.65.131.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA03439 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:34:07 -0700 Received: (from hoppy@localhost) by anvil.appsmiths.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA22470 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:33:44 -0500 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Message-Id: <199504052233.RAA22470@anvil.appsmiths.com> Subject: Re: new install(1) utility To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:33:43 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199504052134.HAA31128@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 6, 95 07:33:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1326 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk :: :: >> > obvious if they don't match, and doing cksums on both files would be :: >> > much faster than the 'cmp' IMHO. :: >> :: >> Funny you should mention, I just ran some experiments (for CTM), and the :: >> fastest thing you can do is to mmap both files and memcmp them... :: :: There are many reasons why checksumming might be slower, especially if it :: isn't implemented carefully. Checksumming can only be faster if you can :: usually avoid reading the target. A non-hashed database in a single file :: would be very slow. You would have to use a hashed database. Writing :: the database would add a lot of overhead. This would be more of a :: problem for install than for ctm since files are unfortunately often :: installed one at a time so the database would have to be opened and :: closed a lot. Not to mention the fact that the memcmp() is going to bail at the first difference...probably avoiding most of the I/O to begin with. =============================================================================== Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com AppSmiths, Inc. Voice (713) 578-0154 Fax (713) 578-6182 15915 Katy Fwy, Suite 470 Where do *I* Want to Go Today? Houston, Texas 77094 FreeBSD! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 15:53:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA04066 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:53:18 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA04060 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:53:15 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with SMTP id PAA27416 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:49:16 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA03358; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:47:03 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id AAA07676 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:47:02 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA07605 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:32:51 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504052232.AAA07605@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: devices going offline To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:32:50 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504052140.OAA24013@seagull.rtd.com> from "Don Yuniskis" at Apr 5, 95 02:40:53 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 661 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Don Yuniskis wrote: > > When an external device has the capability of being manually > taken offline during an operation, should the driver automatically > resume when the device returns online? Or, abort the operation > in progress (signalling an error)? Or, prompt (how?) for user > intervention?? It simply can't do the latter. (A device driver does not have an interactive terminal, and it does not need to have an attached process while operating in the ``bottom half'' of the kernel.) I'd say: EIO. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 16:03:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA04473 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:03:24 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA04467 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:03:20 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id SAA29275; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:02:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:02:54 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504052302.SAA29275@plains.nodak.edu> To: fenner@parc.xerox.com, seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp Subject: Re: IGMP bug Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Content-Length: 148 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I sent in a endian fix today in mrouted config.c where boundaries are defined. I think there are all kinds of endian problems in the code. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 16:16:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA04846 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:16:45 -0700 Received: from slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (mbarkah@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU [138.67.1.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA04838 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:16:42 -0700 Received: by slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA99715; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:16:22 -0600 From: mbarkah@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Ade Barkah) Message-Id: <9504052316.AA99715@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Re: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 To: asami@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Cc: ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 719 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * Lsof is available by anon ftp from vic.cc.purdue.edu in the > * directory /pub/tools/unix/lsof, and its mirror sites. > > Cool! Does someone want to make a port? With this, xsysstats, > xperfmon, iozone, top, tua and xdu, maybe we can open a new "sysutils" > ports category soon.... :) > > Satoshi Asami Along the above lines, I have uploaded a packaged version of lsof 3.25 to ftp.cdrom.com as /pub/FreeBSD/incoming/lsof-3.25.tgz. The version uploaded was compiled with -DHASSECURITY which restricts non-priviledged users from listing other people's open files. Also, lsof is setgid to kmem for it to be able to read the core memory. Please let me know if you encounter any problems. Regards, -Ade Barkah From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 16:51:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA05517 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:51:22 -0700 Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (root@palmer.demon.co.uk [158.152.50.150]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA05507 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 16:51:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by palmer.demon.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA02483 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:50:22 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: palmer.demon.co.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Ade Barkah cc: asami@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu, ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 1995 17:16:22 MDT." <9504052316.AA99715@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2479.797125820.1@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 00:50:21 +0100 Message-ID: <2480.797125821@palmer.demon.co.uk> From: Gary Palmer Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <9504052316.AA99715@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU>, Ade Barkah writes: >Please let me know if you encounter any problems. Any chance you could look at it on a -current machine and figure out why it doesn't work? It won't even compile... I think Poul-H's namecache improvements mean that what works on 2.0 will crash on current... Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 17:00:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA05752 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:00:58 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA05744 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:00:57 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA10247; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:00:42 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504060000.RAA10247@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 To: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk (Gary Palmer) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mbarkah@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU, asami@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu, ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2480.797125821@palmer.demon.co.uk> from "Gary Palmer" at Apr 6, 95 00:50:21 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 682 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <9504052316.AA99715@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU>, Ade Barkah writes: > >Please let me know if you encounter any problems. > > Any chance you could look at it on a -current machine and figure out why > it doesn't work? It won't even compile... > > I think Poul-H's namecache improvements mean that what works on 2.0 will > crash on current... There should be no reason to look in the name-cache, and doing so is virtually impossible anyway, so I take it that you just guess wildly... :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 17:23:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA06414 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:23:29 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA06408 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:23:28 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA10342; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:23:27 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504060023.RAA10342@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: 2-way CTM? To: jkh@FreeBSD.org (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504012105.NAA19694@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 1, 95 01:05:17 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1646 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You know, it would be very very cool if Joe Developer sitting out on the > end of a SLIP line could make contributions via a sort of "reverse CTM". Yes. > to a submissions list. You should be able to do something like: > cd /usr/src/usr.bin/tip ctm_save tip.c foo.h bar.c > > ... The feature to enable this is planned, and somebody needs to do it. The ctm_save step is needed to grap a copy before hacking commences. > Also, back to CTM updates for a moment. I think these need to be > PGP'd, sequence numbered or simply obfuscated somehow before we go "live" > with CTM. It's just too easy to hose someone's tree and trojan-horse the > heck out of them by spoofing CTM the way it is now, and we have enough > security hole problems on the Internet without us making more of them. > Anyone want to work on this, too? I looked at the PGP issue, it's not quite trivial, but it can be done. > I think it's very safe to say that Poul-Henning is kind of out of the picture > on all of this due to impending Paternity, so if this stuff is going to get > done it's going to be because somebody _fresher_ steps into the breach! :-) > > Volunteers? No shoving.. :-) The rumours of my disconnection are quite exaggerated at this time... OK, to be specific, can I have somebody volounteer for these tasks: 1: Implement /etc/ctmcap in the ctm_rmail and ctm programs. 2: Make the #ctm feature. 3: Look into PGP signatures from cronjobs -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 18:11:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA07240 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:11:14 -0700 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com (mail02.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.66]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA07234 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:11:10 -0700 From: StevenR362@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA204850634; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:10:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:10:34 -0400 Message-Id: <950405211012_73254264@aol.com> To: nwestfal@silicon.csci.csusb.edu, imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip over telnet Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >There is a new alternative to TIA, and it's free. It also comes with >source, in fact the author states that he took the TCP/IP code from >the >FreeBSD 2.0R sources. >The program is called slirp, and it seems to work better than TIA, at >least for me. It is still alpha. It supports port redirection, and >the author also intends to add PPP support. >You can ftp SLiRP updates and patches from ftp://blitzen.canberra.edu.au/pub/slirp ftp://freedom.wit.com/misc4/danjo/SLiRP I've tried 0.9a and it was a little rough around the edges. Telnet worked fine but ftp was somewhat broken. I am going to give 0.9b a try and see if it has fixed this. Once this program has gone thru a few quick iterations I'm hoping to be able to run Netscape at home over my dialup university shell account. Way cool! and it's free with source. Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 18:15:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA07355 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:15:53 -0700 Received: from ast.com (irvine.ast.com [165.164.128.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA07349 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:15:51 -0700 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA05557 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:18:57 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Wed, 5 Apr 95 20:12 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0rwg6G-0004vtC; Wed, 5 Apr 95 20:11 CDT Message-Id: Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 20:11 CDT To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, phk@login.dknet.dk From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Wed Apr 5 1995, 20:11:07 CDT Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [0]The solution was to create two probing passes. The system would [0]effectively call each devices' probe routine twice. [1]Peter writes (who actually used to use a system based on the above [1] scheme and probably didn't even know it) :-) [1]How about generalizing it? If there's a big delay, have the probe [1]return a flag saying "more work to do, call me again after you've [1]asked everyone else". That way you could handle multi-stage delays, [1]like with SCSI. If you say, "OK, I'll start one slow thing, then bail out and let everyone else initialize" (including the others who also quickly bail out), then after a bit the ball comes back to you. Now what? If you start something else slow and then say "come back later", there will be less and less other drivers needing initialization to spend the intervening time on. Eventually your slowest one or two devices will just be executing themselves or each other over and over again. Result: you added a lot of complexity by implementing drivers that can be probed "n" times but gained little or zero in performance. We did something like what you suggest in the original implementation and found that the the code got more complex and the speed increase was so low we had a hard time measuring it as anything other than disk latency. We went back to two passes. Note that if you have two devices that both took a long time, but the number of slow things each had to do was different and each slow thing took a different amount of time, you would see a gain. But designing for such a special case wasn't worthwhile. The other reason I proposed doing the bulk of the work in the second of two passes (which would be the only pass that unmodified drivers would run) would be to ensure that the bulk of the probing/attaching code ran and the resulting probe/attach reports ended up getting displayed in the same order that the entries appear in the config file. Now you might say, "who cares?", but knowing what the next driver is after the last one that displayed a message before your system locked-up is somewhat useful. Doing multiple passes also causes some bizzare device report ordering unless you made things real complex inside. Lets say you have two IDE drives (slow) and a couple SIO ports (not slow) and a SCSI adapter (incredibly slow) with a couple of controllers (drives). Your bootup log might look like: (Example of n passes, NOT what I am suggesting) Pass message The normal log message output in P1 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: P1 wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa (Start reset and move on) P1 aha0: reading board settings, dma=5 int=11 (bus speed defaulted) P1 aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa P1 aha0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (Start wait on controller 0 and move on) P1 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa P1 sio0: type 16550A (Fast device so it is all done) P1 sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa P1 sio1: type 16550A (Fast device so it is all done) P1 sio2 not found at 0x3e8 (Fast device so it is all done) P1 sio3 not found at 0x2e8 (Fast device so it is all done) (Ok, all devices examined once, now back to the top) P2 wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): P2 wd0: 515MB (1056384 total sec), 1048 cyl, 16 head, 63 sec, bytes/sec 512 (Start wait on IDE slave and move on) (sio is all done so they don't get run) P2 aha0 targ 0 lun 0: type 0(direct) fixed SCSI2 P2 aha0 targ 0 lun 0: P2 sd0: 2040MB (4178874 total sec), 2708 cyl, 19 head, P2 81 sec, bytes/sec 512 (Start wait on SCSI controller 1 and move on) (Ok, back to the top again (wdc and aha are still left)) P3 wd1: not found (sio is all done so they don't get run) (No SCSI controller 1 present) (Start wait on SCSI controller 2 and move on) (Ok, back to the top again (aha is still left)) (wd is all done so it doesn't get run) (sio is all done so they don't get run) P4 aha0 targ 2 lun 0: type 1(sequential) removable SCSI1 P4 aha0 targ 2 lun 0: P4 st0: Archive Viper 150 is a known rogue P4 st0: density code 0x0, drive empty (Start wait on SCSI controller 3 and move on) (Ok, back to the top again (aha is still left)) P5 thru n No messages but we take a few more passes looking for more SCSI controllers or possibly a second IDE interface. Or worse, a second aha host adapter card using the same driver, causing up to 6 additional passes. If you just look at the log, the resulting order of messages will make it difficult if not impossible for the average sysadmin to figure out what ran after what. But, if you start resets (settles) and other slow stuff in a silent pass 1 and then probe normally or run the rest of the probe in a second pass, the messages come out as before, the bulk of driver code with any "hang potential" gets run in a nice known order and if you are trying to get things located in a certain way in memory, you can still do it simply by config placement. That will become useful when PnP gets to FreeBSD. Sorry I didn't explain why things were they way they were more clearly. [2]Poul-Henning Kamp [2]I'd say the right thing to do would be to get the timer flying and make [2]a "HW-probe-attach" process... Well, this is great if you don't mind having a process that must finish before you can let swap or init run. (Process -1?) Unless you have knowledge about what the boot device is and can probe and attach it first you really can't let anything get going. Also consider your video drivers aren't running yet when this process starts, plus a few other odds and ends like a filesystem you will need to access unless you embed the process image somewhere in the kernel binary (ugh). Sounds messy. Were you thinking of having the process issue PROBE and ATTACH ioctls or some similar mechanism until the drivers said they were done? Of course this blue-sky is all ruined if we get really wound up and decide to support PnP devices. PnP initialization is slow anyway because of the way it is implemented. If the "core patrol" wants me to take a look at experimentally hacking some of the CD-ROM drivers and the isa front end to do a two-pass init, and see what is involved, I'll look into it. I'll pass on offering to touch the SCSI code for now. I'm not nearly insane enough. :-) Frank Durda IV |"I'll huff, and I'll puff, or uhclem%nemesis@trsvax.ast.com (Internet)| and I'll get promoted." ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem | - Old management saying ...decvax!trsvax.fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem | From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 18:30:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA07560 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:30:29 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA07554 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:30:27 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id DAA11178 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 03:30:24 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id DAA11698 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 03:30:24 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504060130.DAA11698@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Can't compile Lites 1.x on FreeBSD !! (fwd) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (Hackers' list FreeBSD) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 03:30:23 +0200 (MET DST) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 3415 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI. I think we broke Lites with ld's changes from NetBSD. Lites doesn't run under NetBSD either if I remember well. Forwarded message: >From hyh82@cs.ccu.edu.tw Wed Apr 5 07:50:56 1995 From: hyh82@cs.ccu.edu.tw (Han Yi-Huang) Message-Id: <9504050320.AA25179@cs.ccu.edu.tw> Subject: Can't compile Lites 1.x on FreeBSD !! To: lites@cs.hut.fi Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:20:50 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2724 Dear Sir: I install FreeBSD 2.0-950322-SNAP on my machine(AMD 486 DX2-80). Everything is OK. I want to run mach on the machine. I can compile Mach4 correctly!! When I compile lites, I got stuck!! Here are error messages. gmake[1]: Entering directory `/usr/obj/lites-1.0/server' /bin/sh /usr/src/lites-1.0/conf/newvers.sh /usr/src/lites-1.0/conf/copyright Lit es Lites.0.8 STD+WS+mach4 gcc -pipe -c -MD -DKERNEL -DMACH -DLITES -Di386 -I- -I. -I/usr/src/lites-1.0/ include -I/usr/obj/lites-1.0/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/src/lites-1.0/s erver -I/usr/local/include/mach -nostdinc -O2 -W vers.c ld -o startup.Lites.0.8.STD+WS+mach4.unstripped.out -e __start -L/usr/obj/lites -1.0/liblites -L/usr/local/lib \ /usr/local/lib/mach_crt0.o vers.o ... _traps.o -llites -lthreads -lmach_sa /usr/lib/libgcc.a && \ mv startup.Lites.0.8.STD+WS+mach4.unstripped.out startup.Lites.0.8.STD+WS+mach4. unstripped kernfs_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_bio.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_bio.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_nqlease.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment nfs_serv.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___moddi3' referenced from text segment spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___moddi3' referenced from text segment ufs_lookup.o: More undefined symbol ___udivdi3 refs follow gmake[1]: *** [startup.Lites.0.8.STD+WS+mach4.unstripped] Error 1 gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/obj/lites-1.0/server' gmake: *** [all] Error 1 ====end of error messages Can anyone solve this problem for me? Many thanks!! ======================================================================= Yi-Huang Han Dept. of Computer Science & Information Engineering National Chung Cheng Univ. Chiayi 621, Taiwan, R.O.C. e-mail: hyh82@cs.ccu.edu.tw eddy@hntp2.hinet.net -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 19:19:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA08565 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:19:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA08557 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:19:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Slip over telnet In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 11:11:57 CDT." <9504051611.AA11618@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 19:19:42 -0700 Message-ID: <8556.797134782@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > tia is a SLIP emulator. It resides as a user process on a UNIX system, and > basically opens "proxy" TCP connections using the system calls on the host > UNIX system. This is actually quite slick, but isn't horribly complicated > or difficult... I think a FAQ entry for this would be very nice.. Hint hint.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 20:01:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09322 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:01:35 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.BARRNET.NET [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA09313 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:01:33 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id TAA28931 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:48:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA00977; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:28:41 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504041628.LAA00977@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:28:40 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504032233.AA09336@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 3, 95 04:33:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 520 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But, again, the risk is increased by the spanning, which was the point > of the post... that spanning is nearly useless without additional > support changes to increase reliability. How about disk mirroring ? If you have a _mirrored_ database on two 2G disks and then add 2x2G (or may be 1x4G) and get spanned mirrored database. You get reliability due to mirroring and easy expansion due to spanning. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 20:01:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA09324 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:01:48 -0700 Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA09306 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:01:32 -0700 Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14469(5)>; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:00:23 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <49864>; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:00:15 -0700 To: Mark Tinguely cc: fenner@parc.xerox.com, seki@sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: IGMP bug In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 16:02:54 PDT." <199504052302.SAA29275@plains.nodak.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:00:03 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <95Apr5.200015pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199504052302.SAA29275@plains.nodak.edu> you write: >I sent in a endian fix today in mrouted config.c where boundaries are defined. Well, you didn't send it to me, and it probably won't end up in 3.5 unless you do. I am the maintainer of mrouted and the multicast kernel. >I think there are all kinds of endian problems in the code. Almost everything is stored in network order. I think there are a few tricky endian problems in the code; if there were "all kinds" it wouldn't be working. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 22:00:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA10429 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:00:32 -0700 Received: from Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Xenon.Stanford.EDU [36.28.0.25]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA10423 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:00:31 -0700 Received: by Xenon.Stanford.EDU (5.61+IDA/25-Xenon-eef) id AA25823; Wed, 5 Apr 95 22:00:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:00:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Lee To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: AHA-2940 boot prob. 950322-SNAP Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin, Just installed 950322-SNAP over 950210-SNAP which was working okay. Can't boot from 0322 kernel. Boot sequence: ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle ahc0: no active SCB for reconnecting target 15, channel B-issuing ABORT SAVED_TCL == 0x0 ahc0: ahcintr-referenced scb. not valid during seqint 0x71 scb(15) ahc0: WARNING no command for scb15 (cmdcmplt) QOUTCNT == 0 then hangs. ctrl-alt-del gives me a page fault listing. 950210-SNAP booted okay but the kernel I compiled myself had problems. After a crash or after booting from DOS and going back to BSD, the system would hang at "ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle". After a reboot it might get one line farther to something like sychronous 10MB/s then hang. I have to boot with the boot disk kernel which boots okay, and then reboot again to my compiled kernel, then everything is okay. However, I can't get 950322 to work at all. Best regards, Terry I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 22:41:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA10968 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:41:56 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA10915 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:39:06 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA04517 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:37:25 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA22303; 5 Apr 95 21:27:45 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA22300; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:27:45 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504060227.VAA22300@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:27:44 -0500 (CDT) Cc: julian@tfs.com, questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050604.IAA26304@grunt.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Apr 5, 95 08:04:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 307 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, I built perl 5.001 patch 4 and Satan on 1.1.5.1. The only problem was in making sure satan included in fping.c before , oh, you also needed to modify paths.pl to look for ping in /sbin and paths.sh to look for basename in /usr/bin. Anyone want me to knock on the door? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:04:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11165 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:04:35 -0700 Received: from FirePower.COM (firepower.firepower.com [198.4.104.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11159 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:04:33 -0700 Received: from tuskppp by FirePower.COM (NX5.67d/NX4.0Mhb.0b) id AA23509; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:03:50 -0700 Received: from rhiannon by tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0M.dsms.0.3) id AA03178; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:03:45 -0700 Message-Id: <9504060603.AA03178@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us> Received: by rhiannon.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA20616; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:03:43 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: harold barker Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:03:41 -0700 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: archive site Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Where can i get a copy of the "current" install floppies and the bin directories that have been built? I would like to test the 3c589 stuff but do not have enough disk space to do the build of the "current" tree until i can use the network, but i can not use the net until i get a kernel that knows about the 3c589. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:18:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11453 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:18:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11447 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:18:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA08620; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 22:12:40 GMT Message-Id: <199504052212.WAA08620@localhost> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: questions@FreeBSD.org cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 18:37:40 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 22:12:37 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I compile perl5 and satan on my system. As for what flaws satan showed on my: Only, had to upgrade sendmail on my system and that was it. (Although, I have FreeBSD-current's sources I have not done a make world ). The more secure sendmail is available in FreeBSD-current the one on FreeBSD-2.0 has a well known security hole. However, I did have problems with running satan on my system. My system, star-gate.com, is connected to the Net via ppp to best.com . When satan starts it tries to open a connection to my system : star-gate.com:1175 or something like that and it hangs... As a quick work around , I named my system localhost and after satan had started , I selected target system. At this point I switch over to my registered name star-gate.com and everything seems to work afterwards. Now the good news is that linux is not capable of running satan at least thats what the release note on satan said and there was a "make freebsd " in the distribution :) Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:22:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11599 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:22:53 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (root@efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11593 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:22:51 -0700 Received: from haus.efn.org.efn.org by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA09957; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:20:10 PDT Received: by haus.efn.org.efn.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21936; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:22:32 PDT Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:22:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Terry Lambert , matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance In-Reply-To: <199504042235.PAA08721@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: [...] > ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running > as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more > specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. actually... I think that I am currently running my isa bus at 16mhz... I think for a while I was tring to run the bus at 20... but it was falling over and wouldn't boot... and this is with ne2000 clone cards... and other generic cards... John-Mark Gurney gurney_j@efn.org -or- gurney_j@4j.lane.edu -or- Fido: John-Mark Gurney @ 1:152/56.2 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:24:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11626 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:24:10 -0700 Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11607 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:23:59 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id PAA29349; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:23:46 +0900 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:23:46 +0900 Message-Id: <199504060623.PAA29349@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: archive site In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:03:41 -0700. <9504060603.AA03178@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <9504060603.AA03178@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us> hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us writes: >> Where can i get a copy of the "current" install floppies and the bin >> directories that have been built? >> >> I would like to test the 3c589 stuff but do not have enough disk space to >> do the build of the "current" tree until i can use the network, but i can >> not use the net until i get a kernel that knows about the 3c589. The 3c589 stuff of the latest snapshot distribution has fatal bug. You must get latest snapshot and replace if_zp.c with -current version. Furthermore, the snapshot release can't be installed via PCMCIA Ethernet even if you have IBM PCMCIA Ethernet Card (Why?). -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:30:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11739 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:30:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11732 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:30:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), peter@bonkers.taronga.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 12:39:03 MDT." <9504051839.AA00795@cs.weber.edu> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 23:30:23 -0700 Message-ID: <11731.797149823@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yay, kernel high resoloution timers and one-shots! > > Yay, kernel preemption and multithreading! > > Boo, work involved! > > Free Rah, Rah, Rah! > Bee Rah, Rah, Rah! > Ess Rah, Rah, Rah! > Dee Rah, Rah, Rah! > > [ more gratuitous team spirit deleted] Hmph. But wouldn't you figure us for the ONE marching band who's principle trumpet player from Utah always runs into the men's room and hides whenever we try to push him up towards the front! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:32:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11773 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:32:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11766 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:32:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Gary Palmer cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 20:13:02 BST." <856.797109182@palmer.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 23:32:24 -0700 Message-ID: <11765.797149944@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh oh. Terry's flipped :-) "Then there are some theories which state that this has already happened.." Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:38:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11865 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:38:06 -0700 Received: from FirePower.COM (firepower.firepower.com [198.4.104.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11859 ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:38:03 -0700 Received: from tuskppp by FirePower.COM (NX5.67d/NX4.0Mhb.0b) id AA25436; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:37:24 -0700 Received: from rhiannon by tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0M.dsms.0.3) id AA03302; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:37:22 -0700 Message-Id: <9504060637.AA03302@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us> Received: by rhiannon.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA22613; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:37:20 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: harold barker Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:37:19 -0700 To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: archive site Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In article <9504060603.AA03178@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us> > hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us writes: > > >> Where can i get a copy of the "current" install floppies and the bin > >> directories that have been built? > >> > >> I would like to test the 3c589 stuff but do not have enough disk space to > >> do the build of the "current" tree until i can use the network, but i can > >> not use the net until i get a kernel that knows about the 3c589. > > The 3c589 stuff of the latest snapshot distribution has fatal bug. > You must get latest snapshot and replace if_zp.c with -current version. I have 2.0-950322-SNAP and -current source so i can do what you discribe if i had the disk space on my dorky-little lap-top that i run freebsd on, but i do not so i need the install floppies and the bin dist to get started. > > Furthermore, the snapshot release can't be installed via PCMCIA > Ethernet even if you have IBM PCMCIA Ethernet Card (Why?). > -- > HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp > WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html > Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:38:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11895 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:38:54 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA11886 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:38:46 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA04513 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:37:05 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA16025; 5 Apr 95 19:49:00 CDT (Wed) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA16022; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:49:00 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504060049.TAA16022@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 19:49:00 -0500 (CDT) Cc: phk@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org In-Reply-To: <199504051738.DAA26590@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 6, 95 03:38:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 652 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The solution was to create two probing passes. The system would > > > effectively call each devices' probe routine twice. > > How about generalizing it? If there's a big delay, have the probe return a > > flag saying "more work to do, call me again after you've asked everyone > > else". That way you could handle multi-stage delays, like with SCSI. > I'd say the right thing to do would be to get the timer flying and make > a "HW-probe-attach" process... That would be even niftier, though a lot more complex and tricky. Do you think it'd save much (that is, are the delays long enough that you'll still have slack in a multi-stage probe)? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:49:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA12291 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:49:17 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12285 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:49:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA21851; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:49:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199504060649.XAA21851@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lee cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AHA-2940 boot prob. 950322-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 1995 22:00:27 PDT." Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 23:49:12 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Justin, > >Just installed 950322-SNAP over 950210-SNAP which was working okay. The 950322-SNAP was released two days before I had my 48 hour spurt of work on the driver. The one in -current is rock solid as far as the controllers go... I'm down to fixing device quirks now. I would suggest picking up the -current driver, but as a stopgap, this might be enough to fix your problem: /* Determine channel configuration and who we are on the scsi bus. */ switch ( (sblkctl = inb(SBLKCTL + iobase) & 0x0f) ) { case 0: ahc->our_id = (inb(HA_SCSICONF + iobase) & HSCSIID); printf("Single Channel, SCSI Id=%d, ", ahc->our_id); + outb(HA_FLAGS + iobase, SINGLE_BUS); break; And add this somewhere: #define SINGLE_BUS 0 > Boot sequence: > >ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle >ahc0: no active SCB for reconnecting target 15, channel B-issuing ABORT >SAVED_TCL == 0x0 >ahc0: ahcintr-referenced scb. not valid during seqint 0x71 scb(15) >ahc0: WARNING no command for scb15 (cmdcmplt) >QOUTCNT == 0 > >then hangs. ctrl-alt-del gives me a page fault listing. > >950210-SNAP booted okay but the kernel I compiled myself had problems. >After a crash or after booting from DOS and going back to BSD, the system >would hang at "ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle". After a reboot >it might get one line farther to something like sychronous 10MB/s then >hang. I have to boot with the boot disk kernel which boots okay, and >then reboot again to my compiled kernel, then everything is okay. > >However, I can't get 950322 to work at all. > >Best regards, > >Terry > > >I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director >D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 >G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax >http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry > -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Apr 5 23:52:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA12356 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:52:11 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA12350 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:52:08 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA02656; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:50:22 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504060650.XAA02656@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: gurney_j@efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 23:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Apr 5, 95 11:22:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1694 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > [...] > > > ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running > > as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more > > specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. > > actually... I think that I am currently running my isa bus at 16mhz... I > think for a while I was tring to run the bus at 20... but it was falling > over and wouldn't boot... and this is with ne2000 clone cards... and > other generic cards... I suspect you are off by a factor of 2, I haven't seen a ``generic'' card of any sort that would run at 12Mhz, let alone 16Mhz. IDE controllers are famous for falling over above 10Mhz (ever done a transmission line simulation of an unterminated ribbon cable :-)). If your basing this on a CPUCLK/N value and you think CPUCLK is 66 Mhz because that is what the crystal is you have made a mistake. Can you tell me what CPU chip you have, what speed is it, and what your BIOS says about ISA bus clock speed settings (list all the valid values). Also what BIOS is it? AMI, Pheonix, AWARD or someone else. Realize a 486DX33, 486DX2/66 and 486DX4/100** all run with a CPUCLK of 33 Mhz. A 486DX25, 486DX2/50 and 486DX4/75 all run with a CPUCLK of 25 Mhz. A 486DX50 runs with a CPUCLK of 50Mhz. ** The 486DX4/100 can also be run with a CPUCLK of 50Mhz if the motherboard supports the 1:2 bus/core ratio jumper. Pentium processors are similiar except the CPUCLK values are 50Mhz, 60Mhz and 66Mhz. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 00:25:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13431 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:25:09 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA13370 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:22:42 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15505; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:21:43 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA10938; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:21:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA09093; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:51:58 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504060651.IAA09093@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:51:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: ports@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504052316.AA99715@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU> from "Ade Barkah" at Apr 5, 95 05:16:22 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 444 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ade Barkah wrote: > > > ... The > version uploaded was compiled with -DHASSECURITY which restricts > non-priviledged users from listing other people's open files. Does this make sense? I'm perfectly able to look at any open file with fstat(1). So why restrict lsof to less than fstat can do? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 00:28:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13524 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:28:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA13508 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:28:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: archive site In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 15:23:46 +0900." <199504060623.PAA29349@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 00:28:10 -0700 Message-ID: <13507.797153290@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Furthermore, the snapshot release can't be installed via PCMCIA > Ethernet even if you have IBM PCMCIA Ethernet Card (Why?). We left it out? :-) This is the zp driver, right? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 00:32:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13659 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:32:23 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13653 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:32:22 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA11858; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:32:15 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504060732.AAA11858@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: archive site To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <13507.797153290@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 6, 95 00:28:10 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 479 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Furthermore, the snapshot release can't be installed via PCMCIA > > Ethernet even if you have IBM PCMCIA Ethernet Card (Why?). > > We left it out? :-) > > This is the zp driver, right? > I installed from a ze0, we probably doesn't have the zp0 on the menu, if even in the GENERIC kernel... -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 00:34:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13763 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:34:20 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA13713 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:33:31 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15765; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:33:04 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id JAA11020 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:33:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA09227 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:16:36 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504060716.JAA09227@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2-way CTM? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:16:36 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504060023.RAA10342@ref.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Apr 5, 95 05:23:27 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 740 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > OK, to be specific, can I have somebody volounteer for these tasks: > > 1: Implement /etc/ctmcap in the ctm_rmail and ctm programs. Btw., i doubt ctm_rmail and ctm can be considered `secure', even with those hacks. They call system(), which is inherently insecure. > 2: Make the #ctm feature. I'm perhaps willing to do this. (No timeline promises yet.) > 3: Look into PGP signatures from cronjobs Sorry for not getting back to you earlier with this. I've looked thru your CTM idea list yesterday, and thought about what i can do and what not. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 00:49:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA14489 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:49:49 -0700 Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA14460 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:49:32 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id QAA01208; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:49:26 +0900 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:49:26 +0900 Message-Id: <199504060749.QAA01208@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: archive site In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 06 Apr 1995 00:28:10 -0700. <13507.797153290@freefall.cdrom.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <13507.797153290@freefall.cdrom.com> jkh@freefall.cdrom.com writes: >> > Furthermore, the snapshot release can't be installed via PCMCIA >> > Ethernet even if you have IBM PCMCIA Ethernet Card (Why?). >> >> We left it out? :-) >> >> This is the zp driver, right? I bought 2.5inch 720MB (1/2inch height! Wow!) HDD. I tried to install SNAP on my laptop yesterday, but the kernel in the boot floppy of SNAP was not configured with ze driver. Am I wrong? --------------------------------------------------------------------- hosokawa[ryukyu:/a] strings kernel | grep ze | grep -v size unp_externalize allocbuf: bmapped is zero for page %d Spindles synchronized Spindles not synchronized vmochk: internal obj has zero ref count: %d pmap_zero_page: CMAP busy kvtop: zero page frame adapter not taking commands.. frozen?! bt%d: bt_ccb_free is NOT initialized but init here wd%d: wdstart: wdcontrol returned nonzero, state = %d --------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, please import the zp driver as the install device on next SNAP. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 00:54:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA14707 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:54:54 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA14701 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:54:53 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA12014; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:54:48 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504060754.AAA12014@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: archive site To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504060749.QAA01208@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> from "HOSOKAWA Tatsumi" at Apr 6, 95 04:49:26 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 549 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I bought 2.5inch 720MB (1/2inch height! Wow!) HDD. I tried to install > SNAP on my laptop yesterday, but the kernel in the boot floppy of SNAP > was not configured with ze driver. Am I wrong? Well the boot-floppy has no ether at all. The GENERIC kernel on the cpio.flp has. The ze0 is there, but not the zp0. Btw: Tell more about your drive ! Is it the IBM ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 01:05:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA15591 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:05:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA15568 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:05:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) cc: hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: archive site In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 16:49:26 +0900." <199504060749.QAA01208@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 01:05:23 -0700 Message-ID: <15564.797155523@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I bought 2.5inch 720MB (1/2inch height! Wow!) HDD. I tried to install > SNAP on my laptop yesterday, but the kernel in the boot floppy of SNAP > was not configured with ze driver. Am I wrong? There's definitely a ze0 driver in there! device ze0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector zeintr It's also worked fine for me.. > BTW, please import the zp driver as the install device on next SNAP. We will, sorry! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 01:11:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA15859 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:11:44 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15852 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:11:38 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA14639; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:10:51 +0800 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:10:51 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: Anthony Graphics cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: 2.0-RELEASE and SNAP-032295 reboots the system during installation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Anthony Graphics wrote: > > Adaptec 1542C, Cirrus Logic VGA card (don't remember the model, > can look it up if it matters), SMC 8013 TPC Ethernet card. > Machine is VLB. > The question: where could I pick up the 1.44 boot floppy with FreeBSD > that _works_ snapshots seemed to be suited for 1.2 The machine in the other room is a 486 VLB/ISA machine with an Adaptec 1542C and an Accton NE2000 Ethernet card. Once I configured the network card with the correct address and IRQ, I had no problems booting with any of the floppies since the January 1995 snapshot. > Any pointers would be helpful. I've heard other people out there > are experiencing the same problem either. When exactly does the system reboot? Try to give us as much detail as possible. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 01:17:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA16092 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:17:34 -0700 Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA16067 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 01:17:21 -0700 Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb/3.3Wb) id RAA01724; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:17:15 +0900 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:17:15 +0900 Message-Id: <199504060817.RAA01724@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: phk@ref.tfs.com Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: archive site In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 6 Apr 1995 00:54:48 -0700 (PDT). <199504060754.AAA12014@ref.tfs.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199504060754.AAA12014@ref.tfs.com> phk@ref.tfs.com writes: >> Well the boot-floppy has no ether at all. The GENERIC kernel on the >> cpio.flp has. Oh!! I'm Sorry. It's my mistake I try to install it again. >> The ze0 is there, but not the zp0. >> >> Btw: Tell more about your drive ! Is it the IBM ? Yes. It costs me about 85,000 Yen (about 1,000 US$ at current crazy Yen/US$ rate) at Akihabara, Japan. IBM-DBOA-2720 722MB ATA, 1400 cyl, 16 head, 63 sect, 4000 rpm. 5V / 500mA (good!) My laptop doesn't support EIDE. This disk is recognized as only 185MB disk from dos6.3 fdisk while the BIOS automatically detects whole 1400 cylinders. I fdisk'ed it 150MB for primary DOS partition 540MB for FreeBSD partition -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 02:00:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA18802 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:00:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA18792 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:00:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Buslogic specs.. Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 02:00:07 -0700 Message-ID: <18787.797158807@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just received the "Wide SCSI Host Adapters for PCI and EISA Systems Technical Reference Manual" from the nice folks at Buslogic.. It covers their Bt956C PCI Wide SCSI, Bt956CD Wide Differential, Bt775C EISA Wide & Bt775CD EISA Wide Differential controllers. Lots of good stuff in here! Now comes the question.. Where to find a flatbed scanner? :-) No, actually, I should know which among you most needs this copy. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 02:04:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA19234 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:04:17 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA19109 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:03:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA07597; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:30:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199504051630.SAA07597@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Christoph Kukulies cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Subject: Re: Mosaic with Lesstif In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 11:15:57 +0200." <199504040915.LAA26436@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 18:30:46 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > you are obviously lagging far behind in reading your mail Yup, I had an IP outage. I was cross eyed by the time i'd caught up (well, I've just down loaded 1M mbox for last day or 2, but thats nothing, I had 1500 mails before ( I also had a problem here that dup'ed about a weeks freefall traffic :-( ) > Why then did you choose Apr 1st for reading your mail backlog :-) Sheer chance, but being April Fools day, it meant I detected it v. fast. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 02:06:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA19368 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:06:27 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA19088 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:02:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA07536; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 18:12:08 +0200 Message-Id: <199504051612.SAA07536@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Julian Howard Stacey , Christoph Kukulies , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 01:06:02 +0200." <22888.796950362@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 18:12:08 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan replied: > you're thinking with some portion of your viscera again and not your brain. I looked up `viscera' definition, here it is to save others reaching for their dictionary: "the internal body organs collectively" (Penquin English Dict. 85/86 Rel > Why is it that Julian can always be counted to come lunging > out of his corner, foam spraying from his jaws, whenever this subject > comes up? :-) To force FreeBSD USA Inc without a vote - Stinks; instead, house it under ISO or CCITT (or such), if you try to force FreeBSD Inc USA for a global role, you deny us all international credibility. You can still do the admin at Walnut, if you like corporate paperwork that much that you don't want to offload it (what's a mega techie want with all that paperwork anyway ? - aren't you better coding ?). Why did the Bostonians toss 340 tea chests in the harbour in 1773 ? They reacted to arbitrary rule from Britain. Similarly global members of FreeBSD do not need USA national law. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 02:15:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA19842 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:15:58 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA19836 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:15:54 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id CAA12436; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:14:08 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504060914.CAA12436@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504051612.SAA07536@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Apr 5, 95 06:12:08 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 390 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why did the Bostonians toss 340 tea chests in the harbour in 1773 ? > They reacted to arbitrary rule from Britain. No, newer revisionist history research has pointed out that the tea was non-decaf... :-> -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 02:42:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA21208 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:42:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA21199 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:42:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Howard Stacey cc: Christoph Kukulies , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 95 18:12:08 +0200." <199504051612.SAA07536@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 02:42:48 -0700 Message-ID: <21198.797161368@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > To force FreeBSD USA Inc without a vote - Stinks; > instead, house it under ISO or CCITT (or such), if you try to force > FreeBSD Inc USA for a global role, you deny us all international credibility. I'm sorry, but this just leaves me cross-eyed.. You can't possibly sit there and tell me that "housing" ourselves under the umbrella of a notoriously bloated organization like the ISO or CCITT is going to be LESS work, now can you? And you completely ignored my other points, which was that the necessary INFRASTRUCTURE is here! I'm sorry, you can yell and scream all you want, but HERE is where most of the action in the computer field is. Not London, not Berlin, not Tokyo, not Sydney! I've been elsewhere and I've SEEN just what passes for infrastructure there, thank you! I'm not saying it's BAD, it's just not any kind of comparison to what we have here and it simply makes no SENSE, Julian, to set up shop anywhere else.. If it makes you feel any better, I'd go to england if I wanted fish and chips and ignore the poor imitations we have here. Full marks to each country for its particular specialty? Certainly! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 02:45:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA21339 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:45:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA21325 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:45:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey), kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 02:14:06 PDT." <199504060914.CAA12436@ref.tfs.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 02:45:00 -0700 Message-ID: <21324.797161500@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Why did the Bostonians toss 340 tea chests in the harbour in 1773 ? > > They reacted to arbitrary rule from Britain. > > No, newer revisionist history research has pointed out that the tea > was non-decaf... Indeed. And further perusal of the records shows that the settlers had already drunk the brewed contents of the 410 OTHER tea chests that were already on the dock. Those suckers were WIRED and they damn well wanted to throw SOMETHING into to the water, just to see it splash! It's sad for the British but glad for history that they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 02:48:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA21536 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:48:42 -0700 Received: from fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp [164.71.1.133]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA21528 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 02:48:37 -0700 Received: from fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp by fgwmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX941209-Fujitsu Mail Gateway) id SAA28823; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:48:27 +0900 Received: from fdm.fujitsu.co.jp by fdmmail.fujitsu.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4W/3.3W5-MX950127-Fujitsu Domain Mail Master) id SAA21132; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:48:26 +0900 Received: from sysrap by fdm.fujitsu.co.jp (5.65/6.4J.6) id AA03501; Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:48:25 +0900 Received: from seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp by spad.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0rwoHa-0000y6C; Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:55 JST Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:44:20 JST From: Masahiro SEKIGUCHI Message-Id: <9504060944.AA00162@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> To: Bill Fenner Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: IGMP bug References: <9504050411.AA02781@seki.sysrap.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> <95Apr5.091758pdt.49864@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >No, it is "The reference implementation of IGMPv2 doesn't implement IGMPv2". >IGMPv2 only requires a single byte. OK. You know what is IGMPv2. I don't. I had no info other than sources for mrouted and kernel (igmp.*), both of which were buggy on the point that they assumed the field is 2 bytes... >Immediately before a new release strikes me as a >wonderful time to report bugs. Understood. >>>Any volunteers to do testing? >The SunOS kernel code is nearly done. I can make the same changes to the >FreeBSD-current kernel code, but cannot test it here If the new code runs with old (3.3) mrouter, I can test the kernel code on my machine (as a multicast-capable host, not as an mrouter.) I could test mrouted, if I can get a free PC. There are may SparcStations around here running SunOS 4 + 3.3 multicast kernel, so it will not be hard to replace it to 3.5 multicast and test interoperability of big endians and little endians, if Sparc code is also available. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 04:58:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA24578 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 04:58:42 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA24567 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 04:58:29 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA19233; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:55:02 +1000 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:55:02 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504061155.VAA19233@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Can't compile Lites 1.x on FreeBSD !! (fwd) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I think we broke Lites with ld's changes from NetBSD. Lites doesn't run under >NetBSD either if I remember well. > ... > kernfs_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment > ... > nfs_nqlease.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment > ... > spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___moddi3' referenced from text segment > spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment > spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___moddi3' referenced from text segment > ufs_lookup.o: More undefined symbol ___udivdi3 refs follow We took these out of libgcc.a. They are in out libc.* and we don't want the static versions from libgcc.a. I guess Lites depends on them being in libgcc.a. The FreeBSD kernel gets them from libkern.a. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 05:02:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24685 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:02:22 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24678 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:02:21 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:02:21 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199504061202.FAA24678@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Since the rumors are flying anyway... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey Amiga fans! DUX/M&W has released their version of SimCity for FreeBSD as a 15 minute play-limited demo. If you want to play longer, you call the number and buy a key for $49.95.. :-). Their site: ftp://ftp.dfw.net/pub/SimCity/scl_bsd_3.6b.tar.Z Our site: ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/commercial/SimCity-3.6b.tar.Z Anyway, it looks pretty slick and I myself have already purchased two copies.. :-) Yes, that's also a new commercial section on wcarchive you see.. :-) I'm working on that now. HOWEVER: CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT CAVEAT The reason I'm not raising more fuss and fanfare over this in announce@FreeBSD.org and comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.announce is simple: I'm trying to get one more revision out of them before really goes fully "public" with it. There are a couple of prominent mentions of the UN*X word, and while I certainly don't think it's critical lawsuit material it would still be nice if they fixed it. There's also the very _slight_ possibility that the porting guy might do audio support at the same time, but I'm not recommending that anybody hold their breath on that at all (it would be nice, but let's not push it! :-). I'm working to help in any way I can if he does decide to do that, however. Ordinarily this situation would mean that I wouldn't even say anything about SimCity yet, but since the guy's planning to do "one last build" soon and they've put it up for public access on their own ftp site anyway, I figured it might not be a bad idea if people got a chance to feed back to them NOW rather than later on any remaining problems. So give the demo a whirl, order a copy if you really like it (I don't care, I don't get a percentage :-) and let them know ASAP of any problems you have installing or running it! Their email address pops up in the "about" window. If I don't get another release from them in about 2 weeks (and this is somewhat likely, given their apparent workload) then I'll just send out the announcement text they sent me and assume that this version is going to be what we end up going with. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 05:07:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24784 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:07:27 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA24777 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:07:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 05:02:21 PDT." <199504061202.FAA24678@freefall.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 05:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: <24776.797170045@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk P.S. And, I feel like a bit of a heel for not mentioning it before: You all have Jeff Hsu to thank for this port! He worked initially with the SimCity developers and did all the liason work required to get this off the ground and actually ported. My own contribution has been very minimal. Thank you, Jeff! You have brought us our first truly commercial game, and that's got to be a milestone of some sort! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 05:59:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA25829 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:59:34 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA25823 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 05:59:32 -0700 Received: from masi.ibp.fr (root@masi.ibp.fr [132.227.60.23]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id OAA18792 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:55:23 +0200 Received: from hebe.ibp.fr (hebe.ibp.fr [132.227.64.34]) by masi.ibp.fr (8.6.11/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id OAA17814 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:53:56 +0200 From: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr (Remy CARD) Received: by hebe.ibp.fr (8.6.10/jtpda-5.0) id OAA09106 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:53:14 +0200 Message-Id: <199504061253.OAA09106@hebe.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Can't compile Lites 1.x on FreeBSD !! (fwd) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:53:14 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr In-Reply-To: <199504061155.VAA19233@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Apr 6, 95 09:55:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1570 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >I think we broke Lites with ld's changes from NetBSD. Lites doesn't run under > >NetBSD either if I remember well. > > > ... > > kernfs_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment > > ... > > nfs_nqlease.o: Undefined symbol `___udivdi3' referenced from text segment > > ... > > spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___moddi3' referenced from text segment > > spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___divdi3' referenced from text segment > > spec_vnops.o: Undefined symbol `___moddi3' referenced from text segment > > ufs_lookup.o: More undefined symbol ___udivdi3 refs follow > > We took these out of libgcc.a. They are in out libc.* and we don't want > the static versions from libgcc.a. I guess Lites depends on them being > in libgcc.a. The FreeBSD kernel gets them from libkern.a. I already told this about two or three weeks ago. Lites depends on the standard libgcc symbols and cannot be linked against libc, because this may cause inclusion of Un*x functions which cannmot work in a kernel. The obvious solution to the problem was to link Lites against libkern but this does not work now because libkern is not installed anymore in /usr/lib. BTW, FreeBSD-current is no longer a working environment for Lites. It seems that the changes made in ld.so (from revision 1.21 and 1.22) broke it when running on top of Lites: every dynamically linked FreeBSD-current binary dies when it is started (ld.so complains about ``Bad address'' when loading the shared libraries, revision 1.21 works fine). > > Bruce > Remy From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 06:04:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA25935 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:04:29 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.223.46]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA25917 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:04:23 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA15187; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:04:23 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:04:23 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199504061304.GAA15187@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Please welcome Satoshi Asami to the FreeBSD core team! Cc: ports@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Satoshi joins us as "Head of Ports" - he will effectively be the liason between the rest of the core team and the greater ports group, much as Rich Murphey does for the XFree86 Project. So if it's a ports infrastructure issue you've got, Satoshi's yer only man! (pardon my Irish.. :-). I'll still be lurking around in the corners, of course, ready to offer the occasional pithy comment or two, but I'm already wearing too many hats as it is - somebody else needed to "own" Ports and Satoshi graciously accepted when we offered it to him. Thank you, Satoshi! Welcome! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 06:34:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA26518 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:34:27 -0700 Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.35.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA26512 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:34:26 -0700 Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id IAA13096; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:33:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:33:38 -0500 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199504061333.IAA13096@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: hasty@star-gate.com, jrb@cs.pdx.edu Subject: Re: Whee - I've got my MBONE feed.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From: Amancio Hasty > >And guys don't forget that James Lowe wrote the vat driver. > Argh! Don't blame me for that driver... :-). It should have never existed! > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 06:46:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA26844 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:46:48 -0700 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA26838 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 06:46:46 -0700 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA15487 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@FreeBSD.org); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:46:37 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199504061346.AA15487@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:46:36 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504061202.FAA24678@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 6, 95 05:02:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 574 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >DUX/M&W has released their version of SimCity for FreeBSD as a 15 minute >play-limited demo. If you want to play longer, you call the number and >buy a key for $49.95.. :-). > > Their site: > > ftp://ftp.dfw.net/pub/SimCity/scl_bsd_3.6b.tar.Z > > Our site: > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/commercial/SimCity-3.6b.tar.Z I just tried it on a machine running SNAP950322, and when I have it displaying on a remote display it crashes with SIGILL just after it brings up a blank "Choose a City" window. It seems to work OK when displaying on the local display. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 07:59:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA29039 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 07:59:52 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA29022 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 07:59:48 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id IAA15002; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:55:42 -0600 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:55:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199504061455.IAA15002@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Remy.Card@masi.ibp.fr (Remy CARD) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans), hackers@FreeBSD.org, roberto@blaise.ibp.fr Subject: Re: Can't compile Lites 1.x on FreeBSD !! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199504061253.OAA09106@hebe.ibp.fr> References: <199504061155.VAA19233@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199504061253.OAA09106@hebe.ibp.fr> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW, FreeBSD-current is no longer a working environment for Lites. It > seems that the changes made in ld.so (from revision 1.21 and 1.22) broke it > when running on top of Lites: every dynamically linked FreeBSD-current binary > dies when it is started (ld.so complains about ``Bad address'' when loading > the shared libraries, revision 1.21 works fine). Can you see if going back to revision 1.12 of lib.c and re-linking solves your problems? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 08:44:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA29930 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:44:41 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA29924 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:44:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199504061544.IAA29924@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by crh.cl.msu.edu (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA15333; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:44:37 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:44:37 -0400 From: Charles Henrich To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> But, again, the risk is increased by the spanning, which was the point >> of the post... that spanning is nearly useless without additional >> support changes to increase reliability. >How about disk mirroring ? If you have a _mirrored_ database on two 2G >disks and then add 2x2G (or may be 1x4G) and get spanned mirrored database. >You get reliability due to mirroring and easy expansion due to spanning. That would be most entirely useful. These days with disk prices being what they are, mirroring is cheaper than a true RAID solution (heck of alot faster too :) -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 08:51:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA00206 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:51:20 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA00200 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:51:19 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13000; Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:49:47 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504061549.AA13000@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Slip over telnet To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:49:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: imp@village.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <8556.797134782@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 5, 95 07:19:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 629 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > tia is a SLIP emulator. It resides as a user process on a UNIX system, and > > basically opens "proxy" TCP connections using the system calls on the host > > UNIX system. This is actually quite slick, but isn't horribly complicated > > or difficult... > > I think a FAQ entry for this would be very nice.. Hint hint.. :-) > > Jordan I think there are already quite enough TIA FAQ's around. It might be useful to drop a pointer to one someplace under our own SLIP documentation, however, and it might be real cool to include slirp as a part of the OS? :-) Probably not, but it makes some amount of sense. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:13:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA00946 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:13:34 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA00938 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:13:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA02149; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:14:18 -0400 From: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199504061614.MAA02149@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Documentation Project To: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1231 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan has started waving the poited stick and ranting about the upcoming release of 2.1. Amazingly enough I got a few hours this week to bring some of the documentation ideas into a more concrete form. I have added a toplevel "help" page and *rough* outlines for a user manual, administration manual and reference manual. The latter is actually just a pointer to the man(1) command but if time permits, an html interface to the man command could be added. A tenative plan is to have lynx wired up as a "help" command pointing at the toplevel page. The other two sections are outlines that probably need some shuffling, additions, and deletions. I welcome you comments and suggestions on this. The outline is probably over-ambitious and some empty sections will probably get commented out for the release. My vision is to have what is currently listed under tutorials filter into the user and admin manuals. Now, there are a number of sections that various volunteers in the doc group agreed to work on. I may be coming after YOU with a pointed stick soon! ;) -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ================================================ =================================== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:19:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01172 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:19:05 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01166 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:19:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA02278; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:19:56 -0400 From: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199504061619.MAA02278@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Re: Documentation Project To: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504061614.MAA02149@grendel.csc.smith.edu> from "John Fieber" at Apr 6, 95 12:14:17 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 477 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Fieber writes: > I have added a toplevel "help" page and *rough* outlines for a > user manual, administration manual and reference manual. The Oh, I forgot to mention. A live copy of this is available via http://www.freebsd.org/~jfieber/FAQ. This is my working copy so at times it may be in a state of disarray. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ================================================ =================================== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:20:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01263 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:20:20 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01257 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:20:18 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13152; Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:18:08 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504061618.AA13152@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:18:07 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504061544.IAA29924@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Charles Henrich" at Apr 6, 95 11:44:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 976 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >How about disk mirroring ? If you have a _mirrored_ database on two 2G > >disks and then add 2x2G (or may be 1x4G) and get spanned mirrored database. > >You get reliability due to mirroring and easy expansion due to spanning. > > That would be most entirely useful. These days with disk prices being what > they are, mirroring is cheaper than a true RAID solution (heck of alot faster > too :) So, technical merits of striping vs. mirroring vs. RAID aside, does anybody have a pointer to a sample implementation of *anything*? I was looking at the DEC ULTRIX ds driver man page this morning, and it sounds like a fairly simple and easy strategy to follow, although not particularly flexible. Does anyone know of anything like this that's already out there? ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:27:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01463 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:27:46 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01457 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:27:45 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12169; Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:15:51 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061615.AA12169@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:15:50 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504041628.LAA00977@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 4, 95 11:28:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But, again, the risk is increased by the spanning, which was the point > > of the post... that spanning is nearly useless without additional > > support changes to increase reliability. > > How about disk mirroring ? If you have a _mirrored_ database on two 2G > disks and then add 2x2G (or may be 1x4G) and get spanned mirrored database. > You get reliability due to mirroring and easy expansion due to spanning. That works... but then again, it's an additional support change to increase reliability. The minimum number of changes for spanning is two: the first to get spanning, the second to increase reliability so you can actually use the spanning safely. Note that a procedural change could suffice... like adding regular backups when there were none before. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:35:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01615 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:35:38 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01609 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:35:37 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12488; Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:29:23 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061629.AA12488@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:29:22 MDT Cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <11765.797149944@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 5, 95 11:32:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Oh oh. Terry's flipped :-) > > "Then there are some theories which state that this has already happened.." Just like "There are some who say that, even now, the lost tribe, fleeing the Cylon tyranny, is searching... for a shining planet, called 'Earth'". Didn't know you were a "Battlestar Galactica" fan... 8-) 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:39:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01661 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:39:45 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01655 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:39:44 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12756; Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:33:23 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061633.AA12756@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:33:22 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, peter@bonkers.taronga.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org In-Reply-To: <11731.797149823@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 5, 95 11:30:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmph. But wouldn't you figure us for the ONE marching band who's > principle trumpet player from Utah always runs into the men's room and > hides whenever we try to push him up towards the front! :-) Utahns have to be careful that they are not recognized as such in case someone decides to blame them for Orin Hatch, the existance of mini-bottles on airplanes, and television. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:40:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01688 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:40:51 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01682 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:40:47 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA22915 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:40:43 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id SAA09077 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:40:42 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504061640.SAA09077@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: steve2@freefall.cdrom.com (Steve Gerakines) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:40:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504050618.CAA09422@genesis.tiac.net> from "Steve Gerakines" at Apr 5, 95 02:18:33 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 571 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On the same note 1Gb hard drive prices have plummeted recently and I > had my eye on a Seagate ST-31200N (SCSI-2) for around $500. Anyone I have one and I'm very happy with it. The best iozone times I got were 3.3 MB read and 2.3 MB write. > OH! Any trouble mixing my existing SCSI-1 with a SCSI-2 on the same > ribbon? I have a Tandberg 3660 SCSI-1 among 3 SCSI-2 drives and a SCSI-2 CD-ROM and it works beautifully. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:44:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA01750 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:44:35 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01743 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:44:31 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA12793; Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:37:51 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061637.AA12793@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: archive site To: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:37:50 MDT Cc: hbarker@tusk.dsms.sanmateo.ca.us, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504060623.PAA29349@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> from "HOSOKAWA Tatsumi" at Apr 6, 95 03:23:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Furthermore, the snapshot release can't be installed via PCMCIA > Ethernet even if you have IBM PCMCIA Ethernet Card (Why?). At a guess, I'd say because you have to run networking software before you can use the ethernet card to load different networking software? Watakushi wa yakuri des ka? (Am I being slow?) Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:55:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA02010 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:55:50 -0700 Received: from teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU (mbarkah@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU [138.67.1.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA01993 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:55:46 -0700 Received: by teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA42466; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:50:10 -0600 From: mbarkah@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Ade Barkah) Message-Id: <9504061650.AA42466@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Re: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2136 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: >> ... The version uploaded was compiled with -DHASSECURITY which >> restricts non-priviledged users from listing other people's open >> files. ... > > Does this make sense? I'm perfectly able to look at any open file > with fstat(1). So why restrict lsof to less than fstat can do? Well, lsof is capable in displaying much more than fstat by default, to the point that other user's privacy might be invaded, so I decided to restrict the output. `lsof' uses the kernel name cache to get the file name associated with an open descriptor (if any). fstat, on the other hand, limits itself to the mountpoint of the file unless you specifically give the file name as an argument. For example, here are two lines from fstat about me and my vi editor: | mbarkah vi 10325 3 /usr2 3920 -rw-rw-r-- 0 r | mbarkah vi 10325 5 /tmp 4 -rw------- 0 rw However, here are the corresponding output from `lsof': | vi 10325 mbarkah 3rW VREG 4, 13 0 3920 /usr2 -- | m/mbarkah/verypersonalfile | | vi 10325 mbarkah 4u VREG 4, 0 0 7834 / -- | var/tmp/vi.recover/vi.010325 Notice that lsof actually shows which file I'm editing, whereas fstat has no such information. Another example.... here's what fstat shows about my working directory: | mbarkah csh 10126 wd /usr 92285 drwxrwxr-x 512 r `lsof' goes further than displaying only the /usr mountpoint: | csh 10126 mbarkah cwd VDIR 4, 12 512 92285 /usr -- | src/sys and it shows my working directory to be /usr/src/sys. Without the HASSECURITY option, any user on the system can too easily spy on another user, watching exactly what processes he is running and which files he is working on, his current directory, network connections, etc., and I'm not sure this is what most people want. However, I'd be happy to replace the current version with a lenient version if the net so desires. Since lsof is setgid, people should compile their own anyhow, rather than trusting (the possibly evil) me. =) Regards, -Ade Barkah From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 09:59:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA02090 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:59:51 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA02080 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:59:49 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA13427; Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:51:55 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061651.AA13427@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: devices going offline To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 10:51:54 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504052232.AAA07605@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 6, 95 00:32:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > When an external device has the capability of being manually > > taken offline during an operation, should the driver automatically > > resume when the device returns online? Or, abort the operation > > in progress (signalling an error)? Or, prompt (how?) for user > > intervention?? > > It simply can't do the latter. (A device driver does not have an > interactive terminal, and it does not need to have an attached process > while operating in the ``bottom half'' of the kernel.) > > I'd say: EIO. I'd say Plug-N-Play device management to get a handler that can do the right thing with devices appearing and disappearing in a general way. Like Win95's "Volume Manager", actually a more generic "Resource Manager". The biggie for implementation is callback registration by the drivers, which is a pain for loading/unloading them without doing yet more callback registration. Win95 has some clever ideas, especially in their file system, as silly as that might seem. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 10:10:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02265 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:10:16 -0700 Received: from relay1.UU.NET (relay1.UU.NET [192.48.96.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA02259 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:10:15 -0700 Received: from ast.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQykhw02281; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:09:53 -0400 Received: from trsvax.fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com) by ast.com with SMTP id AA09379 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for uunet!freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:13:55 -0700 Received: by trsvax.fw.ast.com (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.18.1 #18.1) id ; Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:09 CDT Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #18) id m0rwugR-0004w1C; Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:45 CDT Message-Id: Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:45 CDT To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Thu Apr 6 1995, 11:45:26 CDT Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [0]"Rodney W. Grimes" [0]On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: [0]ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running [0]as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more [0]specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. Actually, there is an IEEE standard on timing and performance for the ISA bus. It came out in the late eighties. I don't have it here (we have a copy at work) but I am pretty sure it says 8.33MHz is the IEEE spec. We used this spec recently when fighting Intel over some non-compliance on IOW timing. Frank Durda IV |"I'll huff, and I'll puff, or uhclem%nemesis@trsvax.ast.com (Internet)| and I'll get promoted." ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem | - Old management saying ...decvax!trsvax.fw.ast.com!nemesis!uhclem | From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 10:10:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02281 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:10:26 -0700 Received: from nomad.osmre.gov (nomad.osmre.gov [192.243.129.244]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA02251 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:10:07 -0700 Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by nomad.osmre.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA14187; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:07:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:07:40 -0400 From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199504061707.NAA14187@nomad.osmre.gov> To: jfieber@cs.smith.edu CC: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199504061614.MAA02149@grendel.csc.smith.edu> (jfieber@cs.smith.edu) Subject: Re: Documentation Project Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ouch! I must be one of the worst but I'll start working more on my sections soon, most likely Monday. I started the "Intro" and noticed that the outline I came up with was very much like http://www.freebsd.org/ so I move that we adopt that as the Introduction, perhaps adding a section or two, one on "what the Free in FreeBSD stands for," "what's in FreeBSD," "The Why of FreeBSD," and a little more on the history of FreeBSD, probably starting with 4.3bsd on VAXEN. What do you think of these ideas? Would you want me to convert the FreeBSD home page to LINUXDOC or have we "decided" to go with HTML for the release? Glen > From: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:14:17 -0400 (EDT) > > Now, there are a number of sections that various volunteers in > the doc group agreed to work on. I may be coming after YOU with > a pointed stick soon! ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 10:12:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02341 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:12:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02323 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:12:23 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA13795; Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:04:03 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061704.AA13795@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 To: mbarkah@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Ade Barkah) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 11:04:02 MDT Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504061650.AA42466@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU> from "Ade Barkah" at Apr 6, 95 10:50:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> ... The version uploaded was compiled with -DHASSECURITY which > >> restricts non-priviledged users from listing other people's open > >> files. ... > > > > Does this make sense? I'm perfectly able to look at any open file > > with fstat(1). So why restrict lsof to less than fstat can do? > > Well, lsof is capable in displaying much more than fstat by default, > to the point that other user's privacy might be invaded, so I decided > to restrict the output. The "peek" program offers a similar hole. UNIX-type systems use a "security through obscurity model", the theory being that you are statistically unlikely to find a file name if you are unable to iterate a directory, so the file can be otherwise able to be read but still be secure. Being able to see what files other people have open is the same as allowing them to iterate at least one file in that directory. The "peek" problem is a little less pronounced, in that it will give current working directories, and you have to get the file name from ps'ing a command line option to vi or some other program. Weber recently had a problem with this, since user's top level directories were open for read-but-not iterate. The intent was to allow the creation of symlinks in a sticky directory to the user's home directory to allow people to link their own home pages in (a CGI script was used to generate the list from ls data about the link owner). Clearly this wouldn't work under BSD with its broken symlink ownership (the owner is listed, not the link name, to prevent abuse). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 10:17:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02435 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:17:48 -0700 Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA02429 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:17:45 -0700 Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id TAA18589; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:16:01 +0200 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199504061716.TAA18589@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: SATAN ported?? To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:16:00 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: questions@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504052212.WAA08620@localhost> from "Amancio Hasty" at Apr 5, 95 10:12:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 256 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Now the good news is that linux is not capable of running satan at > least thats what the release note on satan said and there was > a "make freebsd " in the distribution :) > No surprise given that Wietse Venema lives next door to me.... -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 10:29:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02839 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:29:08 -0700 Received: from pht.com (exodus.pht.com [198.60.59.99]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02831 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:29:05 -0700 Received: by pht.com id AA06900 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:10:49 -0600 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:10:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Brad Midgley To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: brad@pht.com Subject: perl fails the test suite! Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello everyone, Running 950322-SNAP... I ran perl's TEST under /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/t and it fails 11 tests. A fresh compile from /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin doesn't help. I've gotten some really strange behavior out of the perl scripts we use for ftp-mirroring ("mirror.pl 2.3") and I hope this nails down the problem... Is there a quick fix? I can't quite get the standard 4.036 distribution to compile (I don't know the correct combination of configuration stuff) brad@pht.com This is the output: base/cond......ok base/if........ok base/lex.......ok base/pat.......ok base/term......ok comp/cmdopt....ok comp/cpp.......:10: unterminated character constant ok comp/decl......ok comp/multiline.ok comp/package...ok comp/script....ok comp/term......ok cmd/elsif......ok cmd/for........FAILED on test 1 cmd/mod........FAILED on test 5 cmd/subval.....FAILED on test 1 cmd/switch.....ok cmd/while......ok io/argv........ok io/dup.........ok io/fs..........ok io/inplace.....ok io/pipe........ok io/print.......ok io/tell........ok op/append......ok op/array.......FAILED on test 13 op/auto........ok op/chop........ok op/cond........ok op/dbm.........FAILED on test 2 op/delete......ok op/do..........ok op/each........ok op/eval........ok op/exec........ok op/exp.........ok op/flip........ok op/fork........ok op/glob........ok op/goto........ok op/groups......ok op/index.......ok op/int.........ok op/join........ok op/list........ok op/local.......ok op/magic.......ok op/mkdir.......ok op/oct.........ok op/ord.........ok op/pack........ok op/pat.........FAILED on test 48 op/push........FAILED on test 3 op/range.......ok op/read........FAILED on test 5 op/readdir.....ok op/regexp......ok op/repeat......ok op/s...........ok op/sleep.......ok op/sort........ok op/split.......ok op/sprintf.....ok op/stat........ok op/study.......ok op/substr......ok op/time........FAILED on test 5 op/undef.......ok op/unshift.....FAILED on test 1 op/vec.........ok op/write.......ok lib/big........FAILED on test 39 Failed 11 tests. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 10:57:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA03632 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:57:31 -0700 Received: from Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA03623 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:57:26 -0700 Received: (from digdon@localhost) by Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (8.6.9/8.6.6) id OAA02809; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:56:08 -0300 From: Mike Digdon Message-Id: <199504061756.OAA02809@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:56:08 -0300 (ADT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9504061629.AA12488@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 6, 95 12:29:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 326 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > "Then there are some theories which state that this has already happened.." > > Didn't know you were a "Battlestar Galactica" fan... 8-) 8-) 8-). > Wasn't that from HHGTTG? -- Mike Digdon # Network Operation Centre # Dalhousie University Phone: +1 902 494-1873 # E-mail: digdon@snoopy.ucis.dal.ca From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 11:05:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03788 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:05:07 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03777 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:04:58 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA01157; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 04:02:11 +1000 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 04:02:11 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504061802.EAA01157@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: brad@pht.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: perl fails the test suite! Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Running 950322-SNAP... >I ran perl's TEST under /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/t and it fails 11 tests. A >fresh compile from /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin doesn't help. Fixed in FreeBSD-current (2 or 3 tests fail like they used to). The fix is in vfprintf.c. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 11:13:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:13:54 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA03901 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:13:52 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14390; Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:07:33 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061807.AA14390@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: digdon@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca (Mike Digdon) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:07:32 MDT Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504061756.OAA02809@Snoopy.UCIS.Dal.Ca> from "Mike Digdon" at Apr 6, 95 02:56:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > "Then there are some theories which state that this has already happened.." > > > > Didn't know you were a "Battlestar Galactica" fan... 8-) 8-) 8-). > > > > Wasn't that from HHGTTG? 8-) 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 11:19:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04008 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:19:57 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04002 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:19:56 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA03615 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:20:05 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504061820.OAA03615@goof.com> Subject: Motif 2.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:20:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 425 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 11:26:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04118 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:26:58 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04112 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:26:56 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14496; Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:20:37 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504061820.AA14496@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:20:36 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504061820.OAA03615@goof.com> from "matthew c. mead" at Apr 6, 95 02:20:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built > against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... I don't know if you can get Motif 2.0 built against R6, period. As far as I know, it still requires R5. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 11:32:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04208 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:32:42 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04202 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:32:40 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA03766; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:32:47 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504061832.OAA03766@goof.com> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504061820.AA14496@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 6, 95 12:20:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 628 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built > > against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > I don't know if you can get Motif 2.0 built against R6, period. As far > as I know, it still requires R5. Does that mean I'd have to have R5 and R6 online to use it? -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 11:49:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04475 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:49:53 -0700 Received: from dkuug.dk (dkuug.dk [193.88.44.89]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04468 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:49:43 -0700 Received: from kmd-ac.dk by dkuug.dk with UUCP id AA09676 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for freebsd.org!hackers); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:49:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199504061849.AA09676@dkuug.dk> Subject: Intel 486"Enhanced Write Back" question To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:47:17 +0000 (GMT) From: "Soeren Schmidt" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 481 X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have these new 486 "enhanced writeback" CPU's lying around, but I cannot use the WB feature. I've read that the CPU determines if it shall work as a WB or WT chip by reading the level on some pin on reset. This makes sense as old motherboard designs wouldn't support this feature then. Now the question is which pin ?? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org | sos@kmd-ac.dk) FreeBSD Core Team .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 11:50:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04510 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:50:36 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA04448 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:48:32 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06669; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:42:23 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id UAA15298 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:42:16 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA11661 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:30:16 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504061830.UAA11661@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: lsof 3.25 now available for fbsd 2.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:30:15 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <9504061650.AA42466@teton.Mines.Colorado.EDU> from "Ade Barkah" at Apr 6, 95 10:50:10 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 824 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ade Barkah wrote: > > > Does this make sense? I'm perfectly able to look at any open file > > with fstat(1). So why restrict lsof to less than fstat can do? > > Well, lsof is capable in displaying much more than fstat by default, > to the point that other user's privacy might be invaded, so I decided > to restrict the output. > > `lsof' uses the kernel name cache to get the file name associated with > an open descriptor (if any). fstat, on the other hand, limits itself > to the mountpoint of the file unless you specifically give the file > name as an argument. Accepted. This way, lsof can get more information than fstat (and possibly ``find / -inum ...''). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 12:17:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA05046 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:17:21 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA05040 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:17:15 -0700 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA23880; Thu, 6 Apr 95 15:16:43 -0400 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA01129; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:16:42 -0400 Message-Id: <9504061916.AA01129@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 06 Apr 1995 12:20:36 MDT. <9504061820.AA14496@cs.weber.edu> Organization: X Consortium Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 15:16:41 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built > > against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > > I don't know if you can get Motif 2.0 built against R6, period. As far > as I know, it still requires R5. > I'd say what you really want is CDE-Motif -- that's what everyone else is going. Unfortunately you have to be a CDE licensee to get CDE-Motif. Motif 1.2.x, CDE-Motif, and Motif 2.0 all "require" X11R5. That's just OSF's polite way of saying "you pay your money, you take your chances" if you use X11R6. I can't say outright that Motif works fine with X11R6 :-) but if you have the source I can suggest that you try building it, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. As for where to buy pre-built libraries, I haven't got a clue, I always build from source. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 12:25:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA05203 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:25:17 -0700 Received: from anvil.appsmiths.com (appsmiths.sccsi.com [198.65.134.98]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA05198 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:25:12 -0700 Received: (from hoppy@localhost) by anvil.appsmiths.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA04664; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:24:37 -0500 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Message-Id: <199504061924.OAA04664@anvil.appsmiths.com> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:24:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504061820.OAA03615@goof.com> from "matthew c. mead" at Apr 6, 95 02:19:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1702 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk :: :: Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built :: against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... :: :: :: :: -matt :: :: -- :: Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - :: -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration :: Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other :: ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- :: I have SWiM 2.0 on backorder from ACC Bookstore. 1-800-546-7274 info@acc-corp.com not affiliated (blah, blah...) Actually, I'm sorta P*ssed at them because they have been giving me the "next week" story for about 2 months now. I have a 2.x-current from about 01 mar running the 1.2.4. version of SWiM (yes the 1.x version of Motif on X11R6), and everything works fine except the stupid MWM. I have an application running under the zApp framework which demands motif, and the applications seem to work fine. Also, they sold me 1.2.4 (when I was running 1.1.5.1) and offered to upgrade me for the difference. If you are looking to get Motif under you ASAP, I would get the 1.2.4 verision now, and backorder the 2.0 version for when it comes out. If you really need Motif 2.0 functionality, you may have to wait, at least from them. Hope that helps. =============================================================================== Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com AppSmiths, Inc. Voice (713) 578-0154 Fax (713) 578-6182 15915 Katy Fwy, Suite 470 Where do *I* Want to Go Today? Houston, Texas 77094 FreeBSD! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 12:26:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA05226 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:26:28 -0700 Received: from Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Xenon.Stanford.EDU [36.28.0.25]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA05220 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:26:25 -0700 Received: by Xenon.Stanford.EDU (5.61+IDA/25-Xenon-eef) id AA26816; Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:26:10 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Lee To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AHA-2940 boot prob. 950322-SNAP In-Reply-To: <199504060649.XAA21851@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The 950322-SNAP was released two days before I had my 48 hour spurt > of work on the driver. The one in -current is rock solid as far as > the controllers go... I'm down to fixing device quirks now. I would > suggest picking up the -current driver, but as a stopgap, this might Okay. Is this what I need? gnu/misc/aic7xxx/* i386/scsi/aic7xxx.* pci/aic7870.c Is that all? They I only need to recompile a new kernel? Thanks again. Terry > be enough to fix your problem: > > /* Determine channel configuration and who we are on the scsi > bus. */ > switch ( (sblkctl = inb(SBLKCTL + iobase) & 0x0f) ) { > case 0: > ahc->our_id = (inb(HA_SCSICONF + iobase) & HSCSIID); > printf("Single Channel, SCSI Id=%d, ", ahc->our_id); > + outb(HA_FLAGS + iobase, SINGLE_BUS); > break; > > And add this somewhere: > > #define SINGLE_BUS 0 I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 12:30:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA05296 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:30:20 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA05290 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:30:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA24679; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:30:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199504061930.MAA24679@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lee cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AHA-2940 boot prob. 950322-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 1995 12:26:08 PDT." Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 12:30:16 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> The 950322-SNAP was released two days before I had my 48 hour spurt >> of work on the driver. The one in -current is rock solid as far as >> the controllers go... I'm down to fixing device quirks now. I would >> suggest picking up the -current driver, but as a stopgap, this might > >Okay. Is this what I need? > >gnu/misc/aic7xxx/* >i386/scsi/aic7xxx.* >pci/aic7870.c i386/isa/aic7770.c > >Is that all? They I only need to recompile a new kernel? I think this should fix it for you. If for some reason your drive times out (and is detected as a tagged queuing device), try disabling the tagged queuing support. Its just a couple #if 0's in i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c's ahc_done routine where it looks at the inquiry data to see if the drive can do tagged queueing. > >Thanks again. > >Terry > > >> be enough to fix your problem: >> >> /* Determine channel configuration and who we are on the scsi >> bus. */ >> switch ( (sblkctl = inb(SBLKCTL + iobase) & 0x0f) ) { >> case 0: >> ahc->our_id = (inb(HA_SCSICONF + iobase) & HSCSIID); >> printf("Single Channel, SCSI Id=%d, ", ahc->our_id); >> + outb(HA_FLAGS + iobase, SINGLE_BUS); >> break; >> >> And add this somewhere: >> >> #define SINGLE_BUS 0 > >I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director >D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 >G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax >http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry > -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 12:37:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA05411 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:37:15 -0700 Received: from anvil.appsmiths.com (appsmiths.sccsi.com [198.65.134.98]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA05406 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:37:12 -0700 Received: (from hoppy@localhost) by anvil.appsmiths.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA04858; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:36:43 -0500 From: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Message-Id: <199504061936.OAA04858@anvil.appsmiths.com> Subject: Motif 2.0 To: mmead@goof.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:36:40 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 583 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Actually, I just got railed and called up there again. They have the 2.0 (just got it in *today*), and mine is shipping tonight. If anybody cares, I'll let you know what happens when I install it next week. =============================================================================== Clay D. Hopperdietzel hoppy@appsmiths.com AppSmiths, Inc. Voice (713) 578-0154 Fax (713) 578-6182 15915 Katy Fwy, Suite 470 Where do *I* Want to Go Today? Houston, Texas 77094 FreeBSD! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 13:07:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06069 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:07:45 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06061 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:07:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA02241; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 12:01:39 GMT Message-Id: <199504061201.MAA02241@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" cc: mmead@goof.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 1995 14:36:40 EST." <199504061936.OAA04858@anvil.appsmiths.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 12:01:31 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" said: > > Actually, I just got railed and called up there again. They have the 2.0 > (just got it in *today*), and mine is shipping tonight. > > If anybody cares, I'll let you know what happens when I install it next week . Please let us know how it works . I am thinking about buying it. I already have Motif 1.2 for FreeBSD-1.1.5 and it will be nice to get motif for FreeBSD-2.0-current. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 13:15:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06284 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:15:53 -0700 Received: from relay-europe.ps.net (relay-europe.ps.net [160.110.96.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA06278 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:15:47 -0700 Received: by relay-europe.ps.net (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA05541; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:16:40 +0100 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:16:40 +0100 (BST) From: Aled Morris Subject: best performance hardware To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm thinking of putting together a couple of servers (NNTP and WWW) using PCI Pentium based FreeBSD systems, and I'd appreciate some advice on the best Ethernet cards to use. My hardware vendor will throw in NE-2000 clones free, but from what I've read on this list, they will take a lot of CPU to drive. Do I need PCI Ethernet boards, or will good ISA boards be enough (i.e. will I be able to run at full Ethernet speed with a 3c509?) The machines will have 90MHz CPUs, 32Mb RAM, Adaptec PCI SCSI and 2Gb or 4Gb disks. The net connections will be to an (as yet unpurchased) Ethernet switch connected to a FDDI backbone. Thoughts? Recommendations? I checked out the FAQ but there's nothing in there about relative performance of the different supported hardware. Aled -- aledm@relay-europe.ps.net | tel +44 973 207987 Perot Systems Europe Ltd. | fax +44 181 476 2419 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 13:34:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA07073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:34:28 -0700 Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA07052 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:34:02 -0700 Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.6.11/8.6.10) id PAA22863; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:27:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:27:48 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199504062027.PAA22863@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, kaleb@x.org Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 Content-Length: 200 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk motif 1.2.3 compiled to work with X386 still works with X11R6. I kept the old X386 libraries "just in case". though I can't vouch for motif 2.0, I can say it is a safe bet that it will work. --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 13:46:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA07665 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:46:36 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA07654 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:46:30 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01719 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:48:39 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA19718 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:46:57 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00118 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:43:02 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA00849 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:17:48 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504062017.WAA00849@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: on parity error reporting.. To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:17:46 +1596657 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1461 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Currently (== 1.1.5 & 2.0R) the kernel handles NMI parity interrupts by displaying an error and panicing. I assume -current does something similar. What about the following: isa_nmi: check_if_actually_parity_int if not, report and panic mask NMI for a while clear parity hardware install special NMI catcher enable NMI loop thru physmem from 0 to top of memory, scanning memory, hoping error re-occurs if it does, have catcher return *approximate* address of error if not, display message telling user finally PANIC! There are caveats (e.g. caches?!) but would the above be something that works? I know ATT V.3 did do address reporting. Lacking decent hardware (address register containing the error address, like a decent PDP-11 ;-) I see no other way to do it. Reason for asking: I have a mainboard giving me *1* error, on boot. After that, it runs solid for days. I'd be happy to try an approach like outlined above, but it probably needs assembly code support etc. Intel assembly is something I'm not familiar with (and actually, would rather not _become_ familiar with ;-). Comments and suggestions are welcome Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 13:59:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA08283 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:59:01 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA08270 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:58:52 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:58:46 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:58:51 -0500 To: Brad Midgley From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: perl fails the test suite! Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hello everyone, > >Running 950322-SNAP... > >I ran perl's TEST under /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/t and it fails 11 tests. A >fresh compile from /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin doesn't help. > >I've gotten some really strange behavior out of the perl scripts we use >for ftp-mirroring ("mirror.pl 2.3") and I hope this nails down the >problem... > >Is there a quick fix? I can't quite get the standard 4.036 distribution >to compile (I don't know the correct combination of configuration stuff) The problem is that an "improvement" to sprintf is messing things up. The translation of zero is comming out "0." rather than "0". This morning, I saw the commit message to post a corrected version. I am not sure how soon/easy it is for you to get that routine out of -current. An alternate "fix" to perl(4) is to modify str.c. It appears that the "apollo" systems had a similar problem. If you edit perl/str.c, you can easily find the appropriate #ifdef apollo. Simply delete the #ifdef and the corresponding #endif. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 14:04:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA08419 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:04:20 -0700 Received: from flowbee.interaccess.com (joeg@flowbee.interaccess.com [198.80.0.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA08412 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:04:18 -0700 Received: (joeg@localhost) by flowbee.interaccess.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id QAA05177; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:00:34 -0500 From: Joe Grosch Message-Id: <199504062100.QAA05177@flowbee.interaccess.com> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:00:34 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joeg@truenorth.org In-Reply-To: <199504061820.OAA03615@goof.com> from "matthew c. mead" at Apr 6, 95 02:20:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 794 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built >against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > > I had a conversation with some people at ACC-BookStore about Motif for FreeBSD. Because of licening issues their version of Motif is called Swim. Version 2.0 for FreeBSD 2.0R will be shipping starting the end of this week. When I was talking to them I did'nt think to ask if Swim was built against X11R5 or X11R6 or even which patch level. I'll call them and find out. For more info send mail to info@acc-corp.com. In the subject field put the words send swim20 and they will bounce back the info. Hope this helps Josef -- Josef Grosch | joeg@truenorth.org | "Laugh while you can, monkey boy." finger for my | - Buckaroo Banzai - public PGP key | From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 14:20:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09002 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:20:54 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA08996 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:20:50 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id OAA05161; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:20:35 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504062120.OAA05161@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: best performance hardware To: aledm@relay-europe.ps.net (Aled Morris) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Aled Morris" at Apr 6, 95 09:16:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1753 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm thinking of putting together a couple of servers (NNTP and WWW) using > PCI Pentium based FreeBSD systems, and I'd appreciate some advice on the > best Ethernet cards to use. > > My hardware vendor will throw in NE-2000 clones free, but from what I've > read on this list, they will take a lot of CPU to drive. Do I need PCI > Ethernet boards, or will good ISA boards be enough (i.e. will I be able > to run at full Ethernet speed with a 3c509?) Any ISA based card will spend more time copying the bytes between the host and the card. The memory mapped cards are faster than the I/O mapped cards. The PCI Dec 21040 based cards place the least load on the CPU (they are bus mastered devices and can drive the ethernet at full speed with very little load placed on the host CPU). Almost all of my customers buying PCI machines for ethernet server applications are buying the Compex Enet/32 PCI card. This card uses the DEC 21040 chip. You should be able to find it for < US $119, if not contact me, as that is what I sell them for now. > The machines will have 90MHz CPUs, 32Mb RAM, Adaptec PCI SCSI and 2Gb > or 4Gb disks. The net connections will be to an (as yet unpurchased) > Ethernet switch connected to a FDDI backbone. > > Thoughts? Recommendations? I checked out the FAQ but there's nothing in > there about relative performance of the different supported hardware. You will need to be running a either -current or a very recent snap shot to support the AHA2940 series of controllers (you should also be running this with the DEC 21040 based ethernet cards). -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 14:30:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09172 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:30:40 -0700 Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.216]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09164 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:30:39 -0700 Received: (from kargl@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA13866 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:30:38 -0700 From: Steven G Kargl Message-Id: <199504062130.OAA13866@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Subject: install(1) revisited To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (FreeBSD) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:30:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1202 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have uploaded `install.tar.gz' into /pub/FreeBSD/incoming on freebsd.cdrom.com. The new install has the default behavior of the current install in the source tree. I have only added some options and error handling. The added options: -C --- Compare the source and target file. If these are the same, then do nothing (except possibly remove redundant new file). -t --- set the timestamp on the target file to the timestamp on the source file -z --- execute gzip and append `.gz' -Z --- execute gzip and do not append `.gz' For those who have followed the previous thread. The symlink option has been removed because symlinks could inadvertedly pointed to nothing. This is easily seen from %make install [creating symlink /install/dir/file->/make/dir/file] %make clean [remove /make/dir/file] I have done only limited testing of this new version. My weekly `make world' will start some time on Friday morning. -- Steven G. Kargl | Phone: 206-685-4677 | Applied Physics Lab | Fax: 206-543-6785 | Univ. of Washington |---------------------| 1013 NE 40th St | FreeBSD 2.1-current | Seattle, WA 98105 |---------------------| From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 14:33:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09237 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:33:03 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09223 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:32:59 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id RAA19353; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:32:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:32:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-Reply-To: <9504061916.AA01129@fedora.x.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. > > As for where to buy pre-built libraries, I haven't got a clue, I always > build from source. How can this alternative version of Motif be obtained? kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 14:44:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09552 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:44:45 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09545 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:44:44 -0700 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA26857; Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:44:12 -0400 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA00554; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:44:11 -0400 Message-Id: <9504062144.AA00554@fedora.x.org> To: Kim Culhan Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 06 Apr 1995 17:32:43 EDT. Organization: X Consortium Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 17:44:11 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. > > > > As for where to buy pre-built libraries, I haven't got a clue, I always > > build from source. > > How can this alternative version of Motif be obtained? > Which version? I believe I said that you have to be a CDE licensee to get CDE-Motif source. Other Motif source is available from OSF. As for the binaries, like I said, I don't know where you'd go to get them, I build from the source. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 14:45:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09579 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:45:24 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA09571 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:45:22 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14471; Thu, 6 Apr 95 16:44:43 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504062144.AA14471@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:44:42 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199504061802.NAA27522@miller.cs.uwm.edu> from "Jim Lowe" at Apr 6, 95 01:02:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 440 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As part of my "researching", I ran across ftp://csvax.cs.caltech.edu/pub/stripe.tar which might be somewhat helpful - a rather dated (4.2?) attempt at a simplistic striping device driver. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - The Data Capture Fellow (and UNIX/Network Hacker) 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 15:23:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA10543 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:23:38 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA10536 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:23:34 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA05304; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:22:01 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504062222.PAA05304@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504062144.AA14471@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 6, 95 04:44:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 929 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As part of my "researching", I ran across > > ftp://csvax.cs.caltech.edu/pub/stripe.tar > > which might be somewhat helpful - a rather dated (4.2?) attempt at > a simplistic striping device driver. Any one want to buy my Quantum Empire 2100 for $800, it's less than 120 days old, as I am now going to sell it off and go buy 4 very fast 500MB drive and make a stripe driver out of this code :-). The drive has a 5 year warranty, so it's not like your buying a very used drive. Or make me an offer if you think $800 is too much for it. My DAT drive should be in next week so I am not worried about disk failure causing me to lose data with stripped disks. I have read the code in stripe.tar, it should be a day or twos work to get it up and running under FreeBSD. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 15:52:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11289 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:52:52 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA11283 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:52:51 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14592; Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:51:42 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504062251.AA14592@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:51:41 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504062222.PAA05304@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 6, 95 03:22:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1807 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > As part of my "researching", I ran across > > > > ftp://csvax.cs.caltech.edu/pub/stripe.tar > > > > which might be somewhat helpful - a rather dated (4.2?) attempt at > > a simplistic striping device driver. > > Any one want to buy my Quantum Empire 2100 for $800, it's less than 120 days > old, as I am now going to sell it off and go buy 4 very fast 500MB > drive and make a stripe driver out of this code :-). I would if I had the cash handy! Oh well. > The drive has a 5 year warranty, so it's not like your buying a very > used drive. Or make me an offer if you think $800 is too much for > it. > > My DAT drive should be in next week so I am not worried about disk > failure causing me to lose data with stripped disks. > > I have read the code in stripe.tar, it should be a day or twos work > to get it up and running under FreeBSD. This was sort of my impression. I started working on it myself, but I'd rather have somebody that knows what the hell they're doing to begin with do it. :-) In particular, it didn't look very complete, and I would have to figure out what's been added to bdevsw/etc.... Not that that's HARD, but it would be easier for somebody already familiar.... It did look a lot easier than some of the the alternatives. :-) I had been looking at some of the Sprite code for RAID, but wasn't too sure what sort of shape that was in, and of course it might have been a lot of work to port? If you choose to start working on this, I would appreciate it if you would keep me up to date, a little? Thanks... ;-) ... Joe "Net Scavenger of Cool Things" Greco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 15:54:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11338 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:54:12 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA11327 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:54:11 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA15971; Thu, 6 Apr 95 16:47:52 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504062247.AA15971@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 16:47:51 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504061832.OAA03766@goof.com> from "matthew c. mead" at Apr 6, 95 02:32:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes >>> built against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > >> I don't know if you can get Motif 2.0 built against R6, period. As far >> as I know, it still requires R5. > > Does that mean I'd have to have R5 and R6 online to use it? I think the libraries should be binary compatible; it's building the Motif itself that relies on the X11R5isms... ie: Xt and Xext. I suspect it would work, but it might still require the old locale stuff (ala NetScape), etc. I haven't found any manifest constants that have changed (some structure exposures have, like GC, but that was mostly code that you were suppose to deprecate but I didn't since R4). Doesn't mean there aren't any, though. I haven't seen a Motif built against R6 headers, though. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:00:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11592 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:00:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA11585 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:00:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: David Dawes cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 23:46:36 +1000." <199504061346.AA15487@physics.su.oz.au> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:00:53 -0700 Message-ID: <11584.797209253@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just tried it on a machine running SNAP950322, and when I have it > displaying on a remote display it crashes with SIGILL just after it > brings up a blank "Choose a City" window. It seems to work OK when > displaying on the local display. This may be a consequence of the whole "multiuser" license thing (yes, you can buy a license for $10 extra that will let multiple players interact with the city - it's kind of insane! :-). However, it's shouldn't SIGILL in any case. At least not without some more formal explanation as to why.. :-) I will pass on your bug report, if you haven't already.. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:01:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA11625 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:01:22 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA11618 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:01:19 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01048; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:55:17 GMT Message-Id: <199504061455.OAA01048@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:47:51 MDT." <9504062247.AA15971@cs.weber.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 14:55:13 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > >>> Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes > >>> built against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > > > >> I don't know if you can get Motif 2.0 built against R6, period. As far > >> as I know, it still requires R5. > > > > Does that mean I'd have to have R5 and R6 online to use it? > > I think the libraries should be binary compatible; it's building the > Motif itself that relies on the X11R5isms... ie: Xt and Xext. > > I suspect it would work, but it might still require the old locale > stuff (ala NetScape), etc. > > I haven't found any manifest constants that have changed (some structure > exposures have, like GC, but that was mostly code that you were suppose > to deprecate but I didn't since R4). Doesn't mean there aren't any, > though. > > I haven't seen a Motif built against R6 headers, though. > Well, I am not sure that this is applicable but on my previous contract I compiled Motif 1.1 for X11R6 and it was not too bad. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:21:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12266 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:21:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12259 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:21:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: gary@palmer.demon.co.uk, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 10:29:22 MDT." <9504061629.AA12488@cs.weber.edu> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:21:22 -0700 Message-ID: <12258.797210482@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Oh oh. Terry's flipped :-) > > > > "Then there are some theories which state that this has already happened.." > > Just like "There are some who say that, even now, the lost tribe, fleeing > the Cylon tyranny, is searching... for a shining planet, called 'Earth'". > > Didn't know you were a "Battlestar Galactica" fan... 8-) 8-) 8-). Actually, I am.. Starbuck! Apollo! Such incredibly inspired names! And Lorne Green as the captain - such inspired casting! But actually, I was referring to the Douglas Adams quote from HG, talking about the theory that once someone discovered the true meaning if the universe, it would instantly be replaced with something much more confusing and incomprehensible. :-) And besides, for TRULY inspired television we need look no further than "Buck Rogers, in the 21st century." Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:19:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12198 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:19:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12049 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:15:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) cc: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Documentation Project In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 12:14:17 EDT." <199504061614.MAA02149@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:15:42 -0700 Message-ID: <12047.797210142@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have added a toplevel "help" page and *rough* outlines for a > user manual, administration manual and reference manual. The > latter is actually just a pointer to the man(1) command but if > time permits, an html interface to the man command could be > added. A tenative plan is to have lynx wired up as a "help" > command pointing at the toplevel page. Hoorah! And there was great rejoicing! > Now, there are a number of sections that various volunteers in > the doc group agreed to work on. I may be coming after YOU with > a pointed stick soon! ;) Excellent! The pointy doc stick is yours to wield, John - tell us what to do! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:21:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12285 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:21:57 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12279 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:21:53 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA16204; Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:14:15 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504062314.AA16204@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:14:15 MDT Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504062222.PAA05304@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 6, 95 03:22:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > ftp://csvax.cs.caltech.edu/pub/stripe.tar > > > > which might be somewhat helpful - a rather dated (4.2?) attempt at > > a simplistic striping device driver. > > Any one want to buy my Quantum Empire 2100 for $800, it's less than 120 days > old, as I am now going to sell it off and go buy 4 very fast 500MB > drive and make a stripe driver out of this code :-). This might be going overboard. Is there any reason you can't divide it up into four logical drives and stripe it that way? Save you eating some $ on your disk drives (the better to spend on coffee, I suppose). As long as you are careful about your placement of your synchronization primitives, it shouldn't be an issue that you're really only using one drive. How low level is the code? I haven't had a chance to look at it yet myself... if it's SCSI command level, then forget I said anything and go for the multiple drives; otherwise, it'd be nice if it were general enough to use on anything for which a device could be obtained (ESDI or MFM layered above the media correction, etc.). Pretending to have multiple drives on a single drive would be "good practice" for getting the code to be as general as possible... Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:24:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12391 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:24:00 -0700 Received: from cybernetics.net (jeffh@server0.cybernetics.net [198.80.48.52]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12385 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:23:59 -0700 Received: by cybernetics.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26448; Thu, 6 Apr 95 19:23:39 EDT Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:23:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff To: "Clay D. Hopperdietzel" Cc: "matthew c. mead" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-Reply-To: <199504061924.OAA04664@anvil.appsmiths.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Clay D. Hopperdietzel wrote: > Actually, I'm sorta P*ssed at them because they have been giving me the > "next week" story for about 2 months now. I have been getting the same thing. ARGH! Jeff From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:29:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12705 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:29:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12698 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:29:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "matthew c. mead" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 14:20:05 EDT." <199504061820.OAA03615@goof.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:29:31 -0700 Message-ID: <12697.797210971@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built > against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... info@lasermoon.co.uk Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:33:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12839 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:33:08 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12833 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:33:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01257 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:27:14 GMT Message-Id: <199504061527.PAA01257@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Hack Request #1: Doom Seed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 15:27:11 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hack Request #1: Doom Seed date: april 6, 1995 I keep getting deviated into other areas so I decided to try a small experiment. The end goal is to develop a Doom Clone. So for starters, there is a bit of a warm up period as I would call it. There is no 3D engine yet just bits and pieces of information. I copied all the relevant source code to ftp.best.com:/pub/hasty/3d Here is what I have: bsp Tree FAQ: This html page was created due to the overwelming requests for BSP related code for doom like algorithms in comp.graphics.algorithms. http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/bspfaq/ Bsp code based for linux bsp4linx.zip A linux port which uses svgalib of deu, a popular node builder for DOOM. What we need to do is to make deu51211 into an X based program. I once ported svgalib so if the first pass thru of converting deu5211 to use X proves to be too difficult I will re-port svgalib again. deu521linux.src.tgz Computer Graphics Principles (Foley, Van Damme ) code for algorithms in their book: the code in sphigs implements bsp and it may be a fun way to start building the doom clone. the example program SPHDEMO demonstrates the use of the bsp code as well as other rendering techniques. sphigs does not have texture mapping so as soon as I locate the 3d texturing mapping stuff I will add it to the this document. sphigs.tar.gz srgp.tar.gz I don't have a DOOM html reference handy but it should not be too hard to locate . So, is this a cool net project :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:37:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12964 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:37:31 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12956 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:37:28 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA12155; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:37:25 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA00221; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:37:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199504062337.QAA00221@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Aled Morris cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: best performance hardware In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 21:16:40 BST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:37:24 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The machines will have 90MHz CPUs, 32Mb RAM, Adaptec PCI SCSI and 2Gb >or 4Gb disks. The net connections will be to an (as yet unpurchased) >Ethernet switch connected to a FDDI backbone. > >Thoughts? Recommendations? I checked out the FAQ but there's nothing in >there about relative performance of the different supported hardware. Yeah; get a Compex, SMC, or DEC PCI ethernet adapter (something with a DC21040 chip on it). This is the fastest/lowest overhead card we support. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:38:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12987 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:38:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12980 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:38:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Aled Morris cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: best performance hardware In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 21:16:40 BST." Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:38:22 -0700 Message-ID: <12979.797211502@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My hardware vendor will throw in NE-2000 clones free, but from what I've > read on this list, they will take a lot of CPU to drive. Do I need PCI > Ethernet boards, or will good ISA boards be enough (i.e. will I be able > to run at full Ethernet speed with a 3c509?) Considering the price and performance of the SMC DC21040 based cards (PCI), I see no reason to go with anything else. Both David, I and wcarchive are happy users of these cards! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:39:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA12998 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:39:01 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.atinc.com [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12992 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:38:57 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id TAA06854; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:35:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:35:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Julian Howard Stacey , kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <21324.797161500@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > Why did the Bostonians toss 340 tea chests in the harbour in 1773 ? > > > They reacted to arbitrary rule from Britain. > > > > No, newer revisionist history research has pointed out that the tea > > was non-decaf... > > Indeed. And further perusal of the records shows that the settlers > had already drunk the brewed contents of the 410 OTHER tea chests that > were already on the dock. Those suckers were WIRED and they damn well > wanted to throw SOMETHING into to the water, just to see it splash! > It's sad for the British but glad for history that they just happened > to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.. :-) if the truth must be told--it was not tea that they had been drinking. it was sam adams boston lager. cases and cases of the stuff. drank teh city dry and still looking for more. all they could find was some tea that had gone off in the long sea journey. so in fustration, they threw the tea into the sea. Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:54:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13652 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:54:00 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA13646 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:53:59 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14717; Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:52:50 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504062352.AA14717@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:52:50 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504062314.AA16204@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 6, 95 05:14:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 713 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How low level is the code? I haven't had a chance to look at it yet > myself... if it's SCSI command level, then forget I said anything and > go for the multiple drives; otherwise, it'd be nice if it were general > enough to use on anything for which a device could be obtained (ESDI > or MFM layered above the media correction, etc.). Pretending to have > multiple drives on a single drive would be "good practice" for getting > the code to be as general as possible... It operates at the driver level, adding a new block and character special device, and allowing you to give it several other block devices to use. That should be quite general. It's certainly not down at the SCSI command level. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 16:59:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA14103 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:59:22 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA14096 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 16:59:21 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA07884; Thu, 6 Apr 95 23:58:54 GMT Received: by junco.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA28087; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:59:04 -0600 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:59:04 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9504062359.AA28087@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Cc: dawes@physics.usyd.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11584.797209253@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So, are they looking for volunteers to port SimCity 2000 Enhanced? :-) --k From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 17:08:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA14673 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:08:52 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA14655 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:08:50 -0700 Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <1020>; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:19:44 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Samplonius To: Aled Morris cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: best performance hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Aled Morris wrote: > read on this list, they will take a lot of CPU to drive. Do I need PCI > Ethernet boards, or will good ISA boards be enough (i.e. will I be able > to run at full Ethernet speed with a 3c509?) SMC Ultra 16's work well and can handle full ethernet speed. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 17:43:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA16461 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:43:00 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA16455 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:42:58 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA16720; Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:36:25 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504070036.AA16720@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: jmb@kryten.atinc.com (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:36:24 MDT Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, phk@ref.tfs.com, jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Apr 6, 95 07:35:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > Why did the Bostonians toss 340 tea chests in the harbour in 1773 ? > > > > They reacted to arbitrary rule from Britain. > > > > > > No, newer revisionist history research has pointed out that the tea > > > was non-decaf... > > > > Indeed. And further perusal of the records shows that the settlers > > had already drunk the brewed contents of the 410 OTHER tea chests that > > were already on the dock. Those suckers were WIRED and they damn well > > wanted to throw SOMETHING into to the water, just to see it splash! > > It's sad for the British but glad for history that they just happened > > to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.. :-) > > if the truth must be told--it was not tea that they had been > drinking. it was sam adams boston lager. cases and cases of the stuff. > drank teh city dry and still looking for more. all they could find was > some tea that had gone off in the long sea journey. so in fustration, > they threw the tea into the sea. > > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. > | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy > play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 > ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 18:22:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA17422 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:22:42 -0700 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA17416 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:22:40 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id VAA20362; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:22:33 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id VAA10696; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:22:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Frank Durda IV cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Frank Durda IV wrote: > [0]"Rodney W. Grimes" > [0]On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > [0]ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running > [0]as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more > [0]specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. > > Actually, there is an IEEE standard on timing and performance for > the ISA bus. It came out in the late eighties. I don't have it here > (we have a copy at work) but I am pretty sure it says 8.33MHz is > the IEEE spec. > > We used this spec recently when fighting Intel over some non-compliance > on IOW timing. I've found this topic, and the way you guys are handling it, incredibly interesting. Could I ask for one more comment? I have been recommending friends to buy VLB bus stuff instead of PCI, because of all the PCI incompatibilities and bugs I've read about, and because my own experience with my Adaptec 2842 and FreeBSD is so great (thanks, Justin!). Do you think my feelings are still valid, for anyone not staying as current as, say, Rod Grimes? ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 18:38:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA17631 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:38:39 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA17622 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:38:35 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA17024 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:09:43 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA12764; 6 Apr 95 20:02:16 CDT (Thu) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA12761; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:02:16 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504070102.UAA12761@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:02:15 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Apr 5, 95 08:11:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 783 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > If you say, "OK, I'll start one slow thing, then bail out and let everyone > else initialize" (including the others who also quickly bail out), then after > a bit the ball comes back to you. Now what? If you start something else > slow and then say "come back later", there will be less and less other > drivers needing initialization to spend the intervening time on. True. If you're slow enough there's no big gain. The point is that the mechanism (return a status that says poll me again) is no more complex than (poll in two phases), and in one specific case it's going to be a big win: when you have two or more populated SCSI busses. Right now you have a delay with *each* device on *each* bus. If you used this mechanism it'd just naturally probe all busses in parallel. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 19:07:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18110 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:07:33 -0700 Received: from ix2.ix.netcom.com (ix2.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18100 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:07:31 -0700 Received: from by ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id TAA14880; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:04:16 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:04:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199504070204.TAA14880@ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: Who's handling DOC's and how can I help... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I saw something about somebody owning the DOC. I'd like to help. Let me know what I can do to help. Are the docs going to be in html? If so, I can convert existing docs, or whatever. I figure this is the best way to really learn the OS. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 19:22:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18809 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:22:56 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18801 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:22:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA00249; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 08:21:30 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504071321.IAA00249@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 08:21:30 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504061615.AA12169@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 6, 95 10:15:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 769 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How about disk mirroring ? If you have a _mirrored_ database on two 2G > > disks and then add 2x2G (or may be 1x4G) and get spanned mirrored database. > > You get reliability due to mirroring and easy expansion due to spanning. > > That works... but then again, it's an additional support change to > increase reliability. > Note that a procedural change could suffice... like adding regular > backups when there were none before. Yes. But mirroring gives additional throughput increase for reading like stripping (and decrease for writing unlike it :-( ). But from my experience big databases are much more often read than written, aren't they ? Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 19:27:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA18905 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:27:55 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA18899 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:27:53 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA15629; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:27:03 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504070227.TAA15629@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504071321.IAA00249@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 7, 95 08:21:30 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 527 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes. But mirroring gives additional throughput increase for reading > like stripping (and decrease for writing unlike it :-( ). But from > my experience big databases are much more often read than written, > aren't they ? No. In most mixes I've run mirroring ends up having no net impact on the speed. The two effects cancel each other out. -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 20:20:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA20428 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:20:31 -0700 Received: from picard.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (root@picard.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.68]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA20421 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:20:30 -0700 Received: from excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (kenh@excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.6.17]) by picard.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA03776; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:20:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199504070320.XAA03776@picard.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Suggestion on slow probing devices In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:21:22 PDT." <12258.797210482@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 23:20:23 -0400 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >And besides, for TRULY inspired television we need look no further >than "Buck Rogers, in the 21st century." twenty _fifth_ century :-) --Ken (who though Erin Grey looked pretty good in that series :-) ) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 20:55:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA21066 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:55:12 -0700 Received: from ix4.ix.netcom.com (ix4.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA21060 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:55:11 -0700 Received: from by ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id UAA16160; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:51:56 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 20:51:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199504070351.UAA16160@ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Subject: /etc/PPP To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think that the sample scripts from the PPP FAQ should be included in /etc as: /etc/PPP.server.conf.sample /etc/PPP.client.conf.sample This will cut down on the "how do I configure PPP to .." posts. Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 21:14:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21233 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:14:12 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21224 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:14:08 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA06032; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:13:50 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504070413.VAA06032@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504062314.AA16204@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 6, 95 05:14:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2914 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > > > ftp://csvax.cs.caltech.edu/pub/stripe.tar > > > > > > which might be somewhat helpful - a rather dated (4.2?) attempt at > > > a simplistic striping device driver. > > > > Any one want to buy my Quantum Empire 2100 for $800, it's less than 120 days > > old, as I am now going to sell it off and go buy 4 very fast 500MB > > drive and make a stripe driver out of this code :-). > > This might be going overboard. Is there any reason you can't divide it > up into four logical drives and stripe it that way? Save you eating > some $ on your disk drives (the better to spend on coffee, I suppose). But doing that won't make things go any faster, and the whole reason I want to do this is 5MB/sec is not fast enough for my tastes. Also I have a real system running on that 2 G drive, if I replace it with 4 drives I could put my system on 2 drives pretty easily and have 2 whole drives to play with. If I try to slice up my 2 G drive I run the chance of creaming my running system :-(, and I won't be able to measure concurrency :-(. > > As long as you are careful about your placement of your synchronization > primitives, it shouldn't be an issue that you're really only using one > drive. I will test that, there are even some comments in the README about making it SMP safe :-). > > How low level is the code? I haven't had a chance to look at it yet > myself... if it's SCSI command level, then forget I said anything and > go for the multiple drives; otherwise, it'd be nice if it were general > enough to use on anything for which a device could be obtained (ESDI > or MFM layered above the media correction, etc.). Pretending to have > multiple drives on a single drive would be "good practice" for getting > the code to be as general as possible... It is general, it runs above the bdev/cdev layer. It could care less about the device itself. Looks very similiar to the way you set up stripes on an Auspex. >From the README: | To create a striped partition, you need to supply an interleave modulus, | which must be a multiple of MAXBSIZE (specified in DEV_BSIZE units). | It should evenly divide the real disk partitions that are being | striped, or at least all but one of them, if you want to be able | to use all of the space. The real disk partitions to be striped | are specified as two numbers: a major device number and a minor | device number, separated by spaces. In my /etc/rc, I have: | | /etc/ilvconfig /dev/rilv128 960 0 29 0 45 >/dev/console | | to stripe together these partitions: | brw------- 1 root 0, 29 Apr 21 1987 /dev/hp3f | brw------- 1 root 0, 45 Dec 22 00:39 /dev/hp5f | | This has to go before the invocation of fsck, so it's about the | third line in the file. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 21:27:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21818 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:27:36 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA21811 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:27:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/PPP In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 20:51:56 PDT." <199504070351.UAA16160@ix4.ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 21:27:35 -0700 Message-ID: <21810.797228855@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think that a sample template should be manipulated from a dialog-using shell script that lets the user simply fill in the values! :-) Jordan > I think that the sample scripts from the PPP FAQ should be included in > /etc as: > /etc/PPP.server.conf.sample > /etc/PPP.client.conf.sample > > This will cut down on the "how do I configure PPP to .." posts. > > Paul > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 21:30:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA21896 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:30:25 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA21890 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:30:24 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA00501; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:30:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:30:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] In-Reply-To: <199504062222.PAA05304@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > The drive has a 5 year warranty, so it's not like your buying a very > used drive. Or make me an offer if you think $800 is too much for > it. > > My DAT drive should be in next week so I am not worried about disk > failure causing me to lose data with stripped disks. > > I have read the code in stripe.tar, it should be a day or twos work > to get it up and running under FreeBSD. A good question is, can you get this to improve raw throughput much? I began implementing striped disks on L*nux a while back with two 730 Meg Quantum Lightnings on a U24F, and got no improvement in speed at all. I did implement it at the block device level with a few lower level hacks, so that may have been a problem with the way I designed it, but what kind of SCSI card do you expect to push more than 3-5 Megs/Sec. My 24F can't put out more than 2.3 megs/sec sustained from the FileSystem (I think my drives should be able to do better than this). Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 21:36:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22159 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:36:13 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA22139 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:35:20 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA17869; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:35:45 +0800 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:35:44 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... In-Reply-To: <9504062359.AA28087@junco.fsl.noaa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Sean Kelly wrote: > > So, are they looking for volunteers to port SimCity 2000 Enhanced? :-) Never mind the coding aspect, I'll volunteer my services (even to the detriment of my real job) to be a beta playtester for this! :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 21:38:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22212 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:38:29 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22203 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:38:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:38:28 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199504070438.VAA22203@freefall.cdrom.com> To: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... Cc: hackers Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, are they looking for volunteers to port SimCity 2000 Enhanced? :-) It's already being worked on and we are getting a native FreeBSD port. Jeffrey From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 21:53:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22430 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:53:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA22423 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:53:27 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18537; Thu, 6 Apr 95 22:45:59 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504070445.AA18537@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 22:45:58 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504071321.IAA00249@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 7, 95 08:21:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes. But mirroring gives additional throughput increase for reading > like stripping (and decrease for writing unlike it :-( ). But from > my experience big databases are much more often read than written, > aren't they ? Yes, but I'd expect the agregate performance to stay about the same. Large databases don't allow predictive read-ahead because they typically can't be modelled using a model that assumes locality of reference. Unless your cache is significantly large relative to your database. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 21:59:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA22564 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:59:24 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA22558 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:59:21 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA06199; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:59:01 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504070459.VAA06199@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: chuckr@Glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Robey" at Apr 6, 95 09:22:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3426 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Frank Durda IV wrote: > > > [0]"Rodney W. Grimes" > > [0]On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > [0]ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running > > [0]as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more > > [0]specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. > > > > Actually, there is an IEEE standard on timing and performance for > > the ISA bus. It came out in the late eighties. I don't have it here > > (we have a copy at work) but I am pretty sure it says 8.33MHz is > > the IEEE spec. > > > > We used this spec recently when fighting Intel over some non-compliance > > on IOW timing. > > I've found this topic, and the way you guys are handling it, incredibly > interesting. Could I ask for one more comment? I have been recommending > friends to buy VLB bus stuff instead of PCI, because of all the PCI > incompatibilities and bugs I've read about, and because my own experience > with my Adaptec 2842 and FreeBSD is so great (thanks, Justin!). Do you > think my feelings are still valid, for anyone not staying as current as, > say, Rod Grimes? I would say your feelings still have some validity to them. Realize that Intel just last month admitted to a bug in the Neptune chip set that I saw back in June of 1994. (There is the problem with running more than two bus master PCI devices on Neptune chip sets, it does not allows occur, and depends on what bus master devices they are and if they all get very active at the same time). They only admitted to the bug after the started shipping Triton chip sets, and claim it is fixed in the Triton! There are still incompatibility issues with some PCI add in boards and some motherboard and/or BIOS implementations. Most of this was solved with version 2.0 of the PCI spec and with boards that are PCI 2.0 compliant. Avoid *any* PCI devices that do not claim to be PCI 2.0 compliant. I still find PCI motherboards that don't like bt946s, some that don't like aha2940s, though this is becomeing rather rare for me. As far as all the hoop-la about Plug-n-Play, well, if you ask me it is a bunch of b*ll sh*t. Though PCI systems are easier to configure than ISA/VLB boards, they all still have the d*mn ISA compatibility crap, and you have to deal with it. Folks, IMHO, this problem won't go away until the ties with IBM-AT compatibility are thrown out the window and things are fixed like they should have been 10 years ago when the 80386 chip came out. (Gee, 10 years after the introduction of a 32 bit VM chip and we still don't have a true to the core 32-bit OS from Microsloth...) Realize VLB had the same types of problems when it was less than a year old (bus masters that wouldn't master, VLB cards that didn't like certain motherboards, etc.) PCI is going through the same growing pains. I steer my customers away from VLB now, since, IMHO, it will be dead by the end of 1995. And since as you say, I am staying on the bleading edge of this stuff, I know what to steer clear of so that my customers don't have problems with the PCI systems I sell. 6 months ago you had to beg me to sell you a PCI system, as I didn't want the support problems. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:12:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA22831 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:12:24 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22823 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:12:23 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA14988; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:12:03 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA02020; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:25:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 21:25:19 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504070425.VAA02020@geli.clusternet> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: best performance hardware Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |> My hardware vendor will throw in NE-2000 clones free, but from what I've |> read on this list, they will take a lot of CPU to drive. Do I need PCI |> Ethernet boards, or will good ISA boards be enough (i.e. will I be able |> to run at full Ethernet speed with a 3c509?) | |Considering the price and performance of the SMC DC21040 based cards |(PCI), I see no reason to go with anything else. Both David, I and |wcarchive are happy users of these cards! | | Jordan | | I'm using 3 different vendor's DC21040s in a 4 cpu cluster, and haven't yet run into a problem. The cards are from SMC, Cogent, and Mylex. The local-store-on-the-shelf price ranges from $130 to $150; $119 from Rodney sounds like a good deal. Has anybody sprung for the 2 card + cable SMC 21140 demo package? Does that chip work yet? (Yes that's a "1", 21140). From Matt's message it sounded like any day now. Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:16:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA22965 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:16:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22958 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:16:50 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA06264; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:16:32 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504070516.WAA06264@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: smpatel@wam.umd.edu (Sujal Patel) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Sujal Patel" at Apr 7, 95 00:30:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2497 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > The drive has a 5 year warranty, so it's not like your buying a very > > used drive. Or make me an offer if you think $800 is too much for > > it. > > > > My DAT drive should be in next week so I am not worried about disk > > failure causing me to lose data with stripped disks. > > > > I have read the code in stripe.tar, it should be a day or twos work > > to get it up and running under FreeBSD. > > A good question is, can you get this to improve raw throughput much? I > began implementing striped disks on L*nux a while back with two 730 Meg > Quantum Lightnings on a U24F, and got no improvement in speed at all. I > did implement it at the block device level with a few lower level hacks, > so that may have been a problem with the way I designed it, but what kind > of SCSI card do you expect to push more than 3-5 Megs/Sec. My 24F can't > put out more than 2.3 megs/sec sustained from the FileSystem (I think my > drives should be able to do better than this). Did you have spindle sync on the Quantum drives? This is very important if you want to eliminate rotational delay problems when muxing the data out to the drive. You also need to have the interleave data chunk match closely to the drive cache size (or smaller, but not to small). Your choice of controllers was poor. I have run 2 drives on a 1742 doing iozone to both drives at the same time (3+MB/sec each drive) for a controller throughput of 6MB/sec. I have run 2 4MB/sec drives on an NCR 825 based controller and got 7+MB/sec combined throughtput. Ultrastore controllers have become famous for there in ability to do a decent job of getting data to and from the disk. I suspect that the NCR825 with wide drives could easily hit 15MB/sec, and who knows, maybe even get close to the 20MB/sec wide scsi speed limit. (Any one out there with a pile of fast drives on a fast wide scsi controller that can do some aggregate bandwidth tests??). If the controller gets in my way, I will add controllers, NCR810 cards are cheap at < $85.00 a pop. Even fast+wide 825 controllers are not that bad at <$189.00 each. Now that we have CDDI network cards that can push 8MB/sec I want to bring my disk bandwidth up to a number higher than my network. Can you say diskless PC's that actually *perform*!! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:19:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23028 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:19:48 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23022 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:19:47 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA00747; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:19:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:19:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] In-Reply-To: <199504070516.WAA06264@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > Did you have spindle sync on the Quantum drives? This is very important > if you want to eliminate rotational delay problems when muxing the > data out to the drive. You also need to have the interleave data chunk > match closely to the drive cache size (or smaller, but not to small). Unfortuantly, The Quantum drives do not support spindle sync. and also they only have a 96k cache on them too. > Your choice of controllers was poor. I have run 2 drives on a 1742 > doing iozone to both drives at the same time (3+MB/sec each drive) > for a controller throughput of 6MB/sec. > I have run 2 4MB/sec drives on an NCR 825 based controller and got > 7+MB/sec combined throughtput. It's possible that the controller is at fault here. Even though it is a EISA controller, it's very old-- I've had mine for many years. Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:23:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23164 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:23:48 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23134 ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:23:33 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA17930; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:23:02 +0800 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:23:00 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: John Fieber cc: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Documentation Project In-Reply-To: <199504061614.MAA02149@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, John Fieber wrote: > > an html interface to the man command could be > added. A tenative plan is to have lynx wired up as a "help" > command pointing at the toplevel page. Now I remember what it was I wanted to bring up over the past week... :( I'd like to toss in another candidate for HTTP server, with particular regard to this business of creating a friendly documentation interface for our users. The server is WN and its home page is at http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/. It has several standard features which I think make it an ideal engine to back-end our HTML documentation. The server itself can perform a wide variety of searches, both context-based and index- based, without farming out the job to a CGI. It is also capable of merging two HTML documents together, e.g.: a standard display header or a set of navigation buttons appended to the end of each man page or search result. You can also assign a filter to any document, allowing you to bring up raw man pages in HTML without need for a second set of HTMLified ones wasting disk space. Again, it does this internally without the aid of a CGI script. I'll leave the details out of this message to keep it short. Check out the Web page for full documentation and specifications. Source code is, of course, freely available and has been placed under GPL (for those who need to worry about such things). I should have some time this weekend to play around with it, assuming I manage to grab the source by then (FTP's running at 300 bytes/sec at the moment, ugh...) > Now, there are a number of sections that various volunteers in > the doc group agreed to work on. I may be coming after YOU with > a pointed stick soon! ;) Waving of pointed sticks is a healthy thing here. :) It gets things done and benefits the whole FreeBSD community. Thanks, John. -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:24:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23182 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:24:06 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23176 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:24:05 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA01284; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:24:03 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504070524.BAA01284@goof.com> Subject: CDROM stuff To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 769 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I was wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out open : Device not configured until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there's one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:28:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23352 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:28:02 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23331 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:27:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA00501; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:27:29 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504071627.LAA00501@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:27:29 -0500 (GMT-0500) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504070445.AA18537@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Apr 6, 95 10:45:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 694 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > like stripping (and decrease for writing unlike it :-( ). But from > > my experience big databases are much more often read than written, > > aren't they ? > > Yes, but I'd expect the agregate performance to stay about the same. My experience isn't big :-) > Large databases don't allow predictive read-ahead because they > typically can't be modelled using a model that assumes locality > of reference. Oops. I throught that database manager can accept multiple requests from clients in parallel and issue multiple parallel requests to the disk subsystem. Is this wrong ? Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:33:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23525 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:33:53 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23517 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:33:50 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA12873; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:33:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA00130; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:33:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199504070533.WAA00130@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Russell L. Carter" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: best performance hardware In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 95 21:25:19 PDT." <199504070425.VAA02020@geli.clusternet> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 22:33:46 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Has anybody sprung for the 2 card + cable SMC 21140 demo package? >Does that chip work yet? (Yes that's a "1", 21140). From Matt's message >it sounded like any day now. I'm using the version of the driver (in 10Mbit mode) that should support it. If it remains stable, I'll commit the changes in a week or so. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:34:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23541 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:34:12 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23515 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:33:47 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA17961; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:33:25 +0800 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:33:23 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... In-Reply-To: <199504061202.FAA24678@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Our site: > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/commercial/SimCity-3.6b.tar.Z Argh!!! I was less than 2 minutes away on an extremely slow link to finishing the FTP and I hit a "421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection" message! :( Any plans to drop in another P90 system and aliasing ftp.freebsd.org to point to both machines? :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 22:58:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA23972 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:58:37 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA23965 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:58:34 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA06446; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:58:18 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504070558.WAA06446@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: best performance hardware To: rcarter@geli.com (Russell L. Carter) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504070425.VAA02020@geli.clusternet> from "Russell L. Carter" at Apr 6, 95 09:25:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1354 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > |> My hardware vendor will throw in NE-2000 clones free, but from what I've > |> read on this list, they will take a lot of CPU to drive. Do I need PCI > |> Ethernet boards, or will good ISA boards be enough (i.e. will I be able > |> to run at full Ethernet speed with a 3c509?) > | > |Considering the price and performance of the SMC DC21040 based cards > |(PCI), I see no reason to go with anything else. Both David, I and > |wcarchive are happy users of these cards! > | > | Jordan > | > | > > > I'm using 3 different vendor's DC21040s in a 4 cpu cluster, and haven't yet > run into a problem. The cards are from SMC, Cogent, and Mylex. > The local-store-on-the-shelf price ranges from $130 to $150; $119 from > Rodney sounds like a good deal. > > Has anybody sprung for the 2 card + cable SMC 21140 demo package? Can you tell me where you saw this at? I keep putting off ordering a pair of the DEC cards trying to find an alternative board so we can have more brands reported as supported. > Does that chip work yet? (Yes that's a "1", 21140). From Matt's message > it sounded like any day now. The code is not in -current, but Matt thinks he has it working correctly. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 23:07:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA24027 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:07:19 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24021 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:07:16 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA06469; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:07:02 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504070607.XAA06469@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: CDROM stuff To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504070524.BAA01284@goof.com> from "matthew c. mead" at Apr 7, 95 01:24:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 990 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been > trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I was > wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and > all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out > > open : Device not configured Are you hitting the eject button while it is still playing? This drive, due to the design, can not do a door lock to prevent you from ejecting the drive while the CDROM is still in use. If this is occuring with the drive stopped and unmounted it should not be a problem. > > until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there's > one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! It sounds like your ejecting the CDROM when the program does not want you to :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 23:19:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA24201 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:19:40 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA24170 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:19:34 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <29469-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:37:37 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id OAA03074 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:41:10 +1000 Received: by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id EAA09973; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 04:38:54 GMT Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 04:38:54 GMT From: Stephen Hocking Message-Id: <199504070438.EAA09973@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hack Request #1: Doom Seed Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Much interesting stuff from Amancio deleted] I've been thinking about this too, and have thought that a good way to do it would be to have a server that had a model of the physical world in question, and performed all the ncessary calculations for the objects within the world. For each player, a client would exist that spoke to the server using a well defined protocol. This protocol would cover the types of objects that were visible, their orientation, distance, xyz co-ords and the textures that they were made up of, and the health of the player. This in turn would allow one the freedom to create various clients that could display in the way they best saw fit - polygon shapes for X terminals, textured bitmaps for local connections with shared memory, line drawings for monochrome X terminals. One could even create clients for the various PC O/Ss. Clients could preload (ast part of the startup) textures, sounds and what have you that are associated with various objects so that the server could say "play part y of the sound for object x" or "display object x facing foo a z distance". The monsters could also be modelled as objects with processes of their own, connecting to the server. One could have fun defining a language that described the behaiviour of each monster, usually in response to various classes of events (sighting a player, attacked by something, random movements). Sound is another interesting part of it. I'd like to have the soundoutput handled by netaudio, but talking to the device direct would be fine. The server would also have to calculate what you could hear and what stereo position/volume it would be. Stephen. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 23:44:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA24553 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:44:11 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24547 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:44:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA27326; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:44:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199504070644.XAA27326@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "matthew c. mead" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: CDROM stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 1995 01:24:03 EDT." <199504070524.BAA01284@goof.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 23:44:06 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been >trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I was >wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and >all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out > >open : Device not configured > >until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there's >one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! > This is a genereral problem with xcdplayer. Go make a patch for it and I'd be happy to commit it to the tree. :) > > > >-matt > >-- >Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - > -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration >Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other >---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Apr 6 23:47:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA24605 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:47:33 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA24599 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:47:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA27375; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 23:47:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199504070647.XAA27375@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead), hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: CDROM stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 1995 23:07:02 PDT." <199504070607.XAA06469@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 23:47:24 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been >> trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I wa >s >> wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and >> all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out >> >> open : Device not configured > >Are you hitting the eject button while it is still playing? This drive, >due to the design, can not do a door lock to prevent you from ejecting >the drive while the CDROM is still in use. > >If this is occuring with the drive stopped and unmounted it should not be >a problem. > >> >> until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there >'s >> one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! > >It sounds like your ejecting the CDROM when the program does not want >you to :-(. > If you read the source, xcdplayer polls the drive for a new disk once one is ejected, but also gives tons of error messages in the process. > >-- >Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com >Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 00:09:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA24840 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:09:15 -0700 Received: from faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (root@faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.2.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA24834 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:09:09 -0700 Received: from behaim.faps.uni-erlangen.de by uni-erlangen.de with SMTP; id AA20940 (5.65c-6/7.3w-FAU); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:07:35 +0200 Received: from riese.faps.uni-erlangen.de by faps.uni-erlangen.de with SMTP; id AA24334 (1.38.193.4/7.3s-FAU); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:08:15 +0200 From: Thomas Krebs Message-Id: <9504070708.AA24334@behaim.faps.uni-erlangen.de> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 9:06:54 MESZ Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504061820.OAA03615@goof.com>; from "matthew c. mead" at Apr 6, 95 2:20 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built > against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > don't know where from you can get it (there are surely some vendors around, but do you have enough money for sources?), but it compiles and works fine under R6 (Xfree 3.1.1) with only minor modifications. Thomas -- Thomas Krebs Department for Manufacturing Automation and Production Systems FAPS University of Erlangen Egerlandstr. 7-9 91058 Erlangen Tel.: +49 (0)9131/85-8740 Fax: +49 (0)9131/302528 http://www.faps.uni-erlangen.de:1200/persons/krebs.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 00:18:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA24938 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:18:21 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA24932 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:18:18 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id AAA06668; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:18:00 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504070718.AAA06668@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: CDROM stuff To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mmead@goof.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504070647.XAA27375@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 6, 95 11:47:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1506 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >> > >> I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been > >> trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I wa > >s > >> wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and > >> all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out > >> > >> open : Device not configured > > > >Are you hitting the eject button while it is still playing? This drive, > >due to the design, can not do a door lock to prevent you from ejecting > >the drive while the CDROM is still in use. > > > >If this is occuring with the drive stopped and unmounted it should not be > >a problem. > > > >> > >> until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there > >'s > >> one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! > > > >It sounds like your ejecting the CDROM when the program does not want > >you to :-(. > > > > If you read the source, xcdplayer polls the drive for a new disk once one > is ejected, but also gives tons of error messages in the process. Now why would I want to look at the source of xcdplayer when I don't even have an Audio CD in the house to play :-) :-). But thank you for clarifying what was going on here, this is really a bug in xcdplayer and not in the scsi code or a problem particular to the CDROM drive I sold Matt! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 00:29:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA25107 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:29:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA25100 ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:29:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Stephen Hocking cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hack Request #1: Doom Seed In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 95 04:38:54 GMT." <199504070438.EAA09973@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 00:29:04 -0700 Message-ID: <25099.797239744@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For each player, a client would exist that spoke to the server > using a well defined protocol. This protocol would cover the types of > objects that were visible, their orientation, distance, xyz co-ords and the > textures that they were made up of, and the health of the player. This in > turn would allow one the freedom to create various clients that could > display in the way they best saw fit - polygon shapes for X terminals, > textured bitmaps for local connections with shared memory, line drawings for > monochrome X terminals. One could even create clients for the various PC Bleah. :-) Why not just have a tokenized, interpreted language that's platform independant and have the server download the object visualization code to the client! The object then runs its self-display code and requests that the client "draw" it through a generic drawing API provided for all objects to use. The actually client is free to draw the best representation it can of what the object requests - the object doesn't get to make any assumptions about how it really looks. > The monsters could also be modelled as objects with processes of their > own, connecting to the server. One could have fun defining a language that > described the behaiviour of each monster, usually in response to various > classes of events (sighting a player, attacked by something, random > movements). Monster is just a slightly more complex object, again running locally. Believe me, any model where you have a central server running the world bogs down VERY quickly. You want to do what "Hot Java" does and have the clients distribute the problem themselves. Unlike Hot Java, of course, your objects would probabably represent full threads that didn't just go away on a connection dropping but would assume that the central server would either get back to them or keep a connection open for continuous updates. Make the object<->server messaging API class oriented so that messages can propagate up the inheiritance chain until until somebody who knows how to deal with them is found. Thus you can use your clients & server for creating anything from a multiplayer space opera to to a world economics simulator. All most intriguing.. Ah the things one could do if one had infinite amounts of time! :-) > handled by netaudio, but talking to the device direct would be fine. The > server would also have to calculate what you could hear and what stereo > position/volume it would be. Careful - I would do that also with a preemptable thread. You want to be able to halt currently playing sounds in their tracks when new ones come along or the whole thing doesn't sound "synced" enough. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 00:31:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA25152 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:31:02 -0700 Received: from SIRIUS.COM (terra.sirius.com [140.174.229.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA25146 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:31:02 -0700 Received: from slip227.sirius.com by SIRIUS.COM (NX5.67e/NX3.16M) id AA28143; Fri, 7 Apr 95 00:30:57 -0700 Message-Id: <9504070730.AA28143@SIRIUS.COM> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 23:37:49 EDT From: rsoles@terra.SIRIUS.COM (Roger L Soles) Reply-To: rsoles@SIRIUS.COM (Roger L Soles) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: PMMail (v1.0 UNREGISTERED SHAREWARE) Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] - DB Perf Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you're interested in achieving better database performance, you'd be better off to keep the spindles as seperate file systems and allow your database to optimize access to a segments which span are placed on each of the file systems. Depending on the database, there are almost always good ways to take advantage of the fact that you have multiple spindles... for instance, placing the rollback segment on a seperate spindle -- placing the audit log on a seperate spindle -- to name only a few. On Thu, 6 Apr 95 22:45:58 MDT you wrote: >> Yes. But mirroring gives additional throughput increase for reading >> like stripping (and decrease for writing unlike it :-( ). But from >> my experience big databases are much more often read than written, >> aren't they ? > >Yes, but I'd expect the agregate performance to stay about the same. > >Large databases don't allow predictive read-ahead because they >typically can't be modelled using a model that assumes locality >of reference. > >Unless your cache is significantly large relative to your database. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. > > ----------> Roger L Soles PO Box 280785 San Francisco, CA 94128-0785 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 01:23:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA26642 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:23:24 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA26541 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:18:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA00874 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:18:13 -0500 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199504071918.OAA00874@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Statistics and yet one fix for 3C509 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:18:12 -0500 (GMT-0500) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 771 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have done another fix for 3C509 driver. It gives no overruns on input now and finally it's possible to measure its throughput. I have tested it with FTP connection between my machine (Packard Bell 486DX2/66 w/512K cache) and ICL minicomputer that is able to transfer upto 1.1Mbytes per second by transferring a 10M file. Here are results (looking from my machine): ftp> get file /dev/null about 850 K/s systat gives about 85% of interrupts for processor's load ftp> get file about 640 Kbytes/s ftp> put file about 670 Kbytes/s So I think 3c509 isn't the best card for servers. Driver lies at wcarchive.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/3c509c.* Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 01:42:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27185 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:42:15 -0700 Received: from Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Xenon.Stanford.EDU [36.28.0.25]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA27178 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:42:12 -0700 Received: by Xenon.Stanford.EDU (5.61+IDA/25-Xenon-eef) id AA15770; Fri, 7 Apr 95 01:42:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:42:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Lee To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AHA-2940 boot prob. 950322-SNAP In-Reply-To: <199504061930.MAA24679@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think this should fix it for you. If for some reason your drive times > out (and is detected as a tagged queuing device), try disabling the > tagged queuing support. Its just a couple #if 0's in i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c's > ahc_done routine where it looks at the inquiry data to see if the drive > can do tagged queueing. Yes, my drive was detected with tagged queuing and could not mount root. So I made the following modification and it seems to work okay. Just commented out one if line and replaced it with if(0) xs->flags |= ITSDONE; if(xs->cmd->opcode == 0x12 && xs->error == XS_NOERROR) { struct ahc_data *ahc = ahcdata[unit]; struct scsi_inquiry_data *inq_data; u_short mask = 0x01 << (xs->sc_link->target | (scb->target_channel_lun & 0x08)); /* * Sneak a look at the results of the SCSI Inquiry * command and see if we can do Tagged queing. This * should really be done by the higher level drivers. */ inq_data = (struct scsi_inquiry_data *)xs->data; /*if(((inq_data->device & SID_TYPE) == 0) * && (inq_data->flags & SID_CmdQue) * && !(ahc->tagenable & mask)) */ if(0) { /* * Disk type device and can tag */ printf("ahc%d: target %d Tagged Queuing Device\n", unit, xs->sc_link->target); ahc->tagenable |= mask; #ifdef QUEUE_FULL_SUPPORTED xs->sc_link->opennings += 2; */ #endif } } ahc_free_scb(unit, scb, xs->flags); Can you let me know if there is anythign else to watch out for? Thanks, Justin. BTW, I'm using a Seagate ST-31200N. Best regards, Terry I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 01:47:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA27395 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:47:28 -0700 Received: from estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.42.147]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27389 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:47:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by estienne.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA27764; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:47:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199504070847.BAA27764@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: estienne.cs.berkeley.edu: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lee cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: AHA-2940 boot prob. 950322-SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 1995 01:42:08 PDT." Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 01:47:15 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I think this should fix it for you. If for some reason your drive times >> out (and is detected as a tagged queuing device), try disabling the >> tagged queuing support. Its just a couple #if 0's in i386/scsi/aic7xxx.c's >> ahc_done routine where it looks at the inquiry data to see if the drive >> can do tagged queueing. > >Yes, my drive was detected with tagged queuing and could not mount root. >So I made the following modification and it seems to work okay. Just >commented out one if line and replaced it with if(0) This patch should work fine. > > >Can you let me know if there is anythign else to watch out for? That should be it. >Thanks, Justin. > >BTW, I'm using a Seagate ST-31200N. This drive is already on my hit list. Any chance I can borrow it from you for a weekend? :) Actually, if you could call segate and ask them if they know of any problems with doing tagged queuing to that drive, I'd apreciate it. > >Best regards, > >Terry > > >I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director >D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 >G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax >http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry > -- Justin T. Gibbs ============================================== TCS Instructional Group - Programmer/Analyst 1 Cory | Po | Danube | Volga | Parker | Torus ============================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 02:32:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA00261 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 02:32:05 -0700 Received: from hcshh.hcs.de (hcshh.hcs.de [194.49.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA00245 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 02:31:59 -0700 Received: from hcswork.hcs.de by hcshh.hcs.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0rxAOJ-001PRlC; Fri, 7 Apr 95 11:31 METDST Received: by hcswork.hcs.de (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0rxAOI-000UOJC; Fri, 7 Apr 95 11:31 METDST Message-Id: From: hm@hcswork.hcs.de (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: pcvt 3.20 beta 24 available for testing To: port-i386@NetBSD.ORG (NetBSD 386 Port), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:31:46 +0200 (METDST) Reply-To: hm@hcs.de Organization: HCS Hanseatischer Computerservice GmbH X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2422 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is to announce the final beta test cycle for pcvt 3.20, beta 24 Pcvt is a video/keyboard driver for i386-based NetBSD (0.9, 1.0 and -current) and for FreeBSD (1.0, 1.1R, 1.1.5.1R, 2.0 and -current) Pcvt has almost full VT220 compatibility, supports national keyboard remapping, 24/25/28/40/50 lines and 80/132 columns and a configurable number of virtual screens for character terminal and X11 sessions. It comes with a complete set of fonts, utilities and documentation for easy integration into the above mentioned systems. The next official release of pcvt will happen on April 30 1995. There will be a least one other beta cycle until then. Beta 24 is the release candiate and i will only accept bugfix patches for it. Things done since beta 23: bugfixes for - typo in fastscroll code (causing X problems) - modified keyboard controller delay handling - FreeBSD-current support - Hercules text mode restore (from X) should work again - potential divide by 0 problem fixed - fkey label update problem fixed almost completely removed support for 386BSD 0.1 Please have a look at Doc/ChangeLog for details. Pcvt should run without restrictions under FreeBSD-current, the problem regarding 'just one login on console' has been fixed in the FreeBSD kernel by and according to Joerg. Gateway 2000 keyboard problem: anyone with such a device please test this release and give some feedback, the delay is now done by default as dummy reads from port 0x84 because i got keyboard hangs under X with the delay()/ DELAY() method, look for PCVT_PORTIO_DELAY in the source for details. Beta 23 had a typo which caused some severe problems (Danke, Martin !!!), please throw away beta 23 and upgrade to beta 24. (The problem was caused by an '#if defined (PCVT_USL_COMPAT)' instead of '#if PCVT_USL_VT_COMPAT'). pcvt 3.20 beta 24 can be found on: Host: gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Address: 137.226.31.2 Directory: pub/incoming File: pcvt-320b24.tar.gz Size: 329831 Bytes Note: the file is invisible! (Thanks to Thomas Gellekum and Christoph Kukulies !) Please report any bugs, suggestions, fixes and diffs to hm@hcs.de. Thank you, hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis GFKT HCS Computertechnik GmbH Hamburg, Europe We all live in a yellow subroutine, yellow subroutine ... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 02:38:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA00477 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 02:38:16 -0700 Received: from redline.ru (root@mail.redline.ru [194.87.69.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA00468 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 02:38:11 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 13:36 GMT+0400 From: agl@redline.ru (Anthony Graphics) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Is there any place where I can pick up the boot&cpio floppies for 2.0-current? X-Mailer: GNOS 2.3.3b Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk AGL From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 03:31:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02241 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 03:31:09 -0700 Received: from nietzsche (annex1s22.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.32]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02231 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 03:30:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA04026; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:33:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199504071033.MAA04026@nietzsche> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: Amancio Hasty cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hack Request #1: Doom Seed In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 1995 15:27:11 -0000." <199504061527.PAA01257@star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 12:33:26 +0200 From: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Doom clone proposal deleted ] Amancio, Did you check out the 'wt' engine. This is a project (or was) that is targeted at developing a doom clone. 'wt' is the 3d-engine that should drive it. I have been looking around and the most recent version I could find was from Aug-94. I don't know if it's still actively developed, but looks quite nice. They also have a world editor. The author is: Chris Laurel (claurel@mr.net), there is also supposed to be a mailing-list. Marc. Marc van Kempen wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl He's dead Jim ..., kick him if you don't believe me. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 03:53:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA02785 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 03:53:40 -0700 Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02750 ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 03:50:51 -0700 Received: from caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.18.7]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA17775; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:23:20 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.10/8.6.9) id MAA19547; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:23:12 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:23:12 +0200 Message-Id: <199504071023.MAA19547@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: joerg@sax.de, Nate Williams , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, install-geeks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MBONE interfaces and snazzy install tools. In-Reply-To: <18963.796941849@freefall.cdrom.com> References: <199504031222.OAA26520@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> <18963.796941849@freefall.cdrom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >> 3) cpio_flp_1_perl_short: add perl and >> substract sed, ed, grep, tar, ncftp >> 4) cpio_flp_1_perl_tiny: add perl and >> substract sed, ed, grep, tar, ncftp >> cat chmod cp date echo expr kill ln ls mkdir >> rcp rm rmdir sleep test basename chown getopt >> rlogin > >Ah. But you still don't show us how to replace all these with perl! :-) > > Jordan ed -> /dev/null tar -> cpio ncftp -> ftp rcp, rlogin -> rsh chmod, echo, ln, mkdir, rm rmdir, sleep, test, kill, chown -> perl builtin sed, grep, expr, basename, ls, getop, cat, date -> perl script Do you want perl scripts or perl functions? Simple emulation or full support (ls -lagutFL)? Gruß Wolfram -- http://hyperg.cs.tu-berlin.de/C~wosch From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 04:02:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA03091 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 04:02:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA03076 ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 04:02:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Wolfram Schneider cc: joerg@sax.de, Nate Williams , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, install-geeks@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MBONE interfaces and snazzy install tools. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 95 12:23:12 +0200." <199504071023.MAA19547@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 04:02:13 -0700 Message-ID: <3060.797252533@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ed -> /dev/null Hmmmm. I was going to use that to edit /etc/sysconfig in-place without having to worry about tmp files, but I suppose that I can go with sed. > ncftp -> ftp Nope, need that. > sed, grep, expr, basename, ls, getop, cat, date -> perl script Hmmmmm. I don't know. I'm just not convinced.. Perl, for the boot floppy? I don't suppose I could convince you to do a boot floppy set (as proof of concept) in parallel with the mainstream efforts? We could have a bake-off at the end between the two - may the best installation floppy set win! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 05:58:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA05595 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 05:58:48 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org ([198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA05589 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 05:58:46 -0700 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA15299; Fri, 7 Apr 95 08:58:15 -0400 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA00840; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 08:58:14 -0400 Message-Id: <9504071258.AA00840@fedora.x.org> To: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 06 Apr 1995 16:47:51 MDT. <9504062247.AA15971@cs.weber.edu> Organization: X Consortium Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 08:58:13 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I think the libraries should be binary compatible; it's building the >Motif itself that relies on the X11R5isms... ie: Xt and Xext. R6 is a superset of R5. To the extent that Motif relies on R5-isms, they're all still there in R6, with a lot fewer bugs. >I suspect it would work, but it might still require the old locale >stuff (ala NetScape), etc. The locale "stuff" is all standard Xlib stuff. The R6 Xlib has a new implementation, but because Motif stuck to the documented interfaces it all just works. NetScape needs the R5 Xlocale files because it's statically linked with R5 libraries that not surprisingly have dependencies on those files. >I haven't seen a Motif built against R6 headers, though. I have. -- Kaleb KEITHLEY From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 07:59:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA09016 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 07:59:37 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09010 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 07:59:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA02049; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:00:26 -0400 From: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199504071500.LAA02049@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Re: Who's handling DOC's and how can I help... To: PVinci@ix.netcom.com (Paul Vinciguerra) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504070204.TAA14880@ix2.ix.netcom.com> from "Paul Vinciguerra" at Apr 6, 95 07:04:16 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 876 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Vinciguerra writes: > I saw something about somebody owning the DOC. I'd like to help. Let > me know what I can do to help. > > Are the docs going to be in html? If so, I can convert existing docs, > or whatever. Not directly. The format is SGML, but tagged according to the linuxdoc DTD. This provides for easy conversions to LaTeX for printed documentation, HTML for on-line, and ascii text the "web-less" people. Texinfo should be pretty easy to add but has not been done yet. Your help with the doc project is welcome! If you have not already, subscribe to the freebsd-doc mailing list and point your WWW browser at http://www.freebsd.org/~jfieber/FAQ to get an idea of where we are headed. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ================================================ =================================== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 08:05:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA09214 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 08:05:36 -0700 Received: from odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (chet@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu [129.22.8.102]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09163 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 08:03:35 -0700 Received: (chet@localhost) by odin.INS.CWRU.Edu (8.6.10+cwru/CWRU-2.1-ins) id KAA24029; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:44:23 -0400 (from chet) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:43:32 -0400 From: Chet Ramey To: arnold@skeeve.atl.ga.us, composer@beyond.dreams.org, friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu, joshua5@cs.bu.edu, dob@inel.gov, mjo@msen.com, jason@servio.slc.com, timbo@ig.co.uk, trost@cse.ogi.edu, zoo@armadillo.com, lubkin@cs.rochester.edu, james@bigtex.cactus.org, dbrooks@ics.com, Greg.Onufer@Eng.Sun.COM, kre@munnari.oz.au, tmwalden@saturn.sys.acc.com, torvalds@cc.helsinki.fi, i.watson@lilly.com, glenn@mathcs.emory.edu, penningt@reason.psc.edu, devet@adv.iaehv.nl, grog@lemis.de, djm@eng.umd.edu, wieting@tweety.llnl.gov, geoffc@research.att.com, de5@ornl.gov, kayvan@satyr.sylvan.com, smd@uunet.ca, asjl@connect.com.au, mark@comp.vuw.ac.nz, david@cs.dal.ca, jwe@che.utexas.edu, Karl.Kleinpaste@GODIVA.NECTAR.CS.CMU.EDU, bammi@cadence.com, sanders@bsdi.com, tramey@boi.hp.com, sandro@elf.com, drich@sgi.com, carson@cs.columbia.edu, dbecker@legato.com, deven@asylum.sf.ca.us, remy@ccs.neu.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, dtm@nsd.3com.com, kjetilho@ifi.uio.no, cam@iinet.com.au, wbader@EECS.Lehigh.Edu, hniksic@neumijko.srce.hr, mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov, jsh@canary.com, gjb@gba.oz.au, andreas@MPA-Garching.MPG.DE, pgf@foxharp.boston.ma.us, peterc@suite.sw.oz.au, brown@eff.org, bothner@cygnus.com, tudor@cs.pub.ro, fox@cac.washington.edu, hag@gnu.ai.mit.edu, root@candle.pha.pa.us, neal@ctd.comsat.com Subject: Machine request Reply-To: chet@po.cwru.edu Message-ID: <9504071443.AA24020.SM@odin.INS.CWRU.Edu> Read-Receipt-To: chet@po.CWRU.Edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone out there have a machine running pre-v4 SCO Unix on which I could have an account for a couple of days? Chet -- ``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer Chet Ramey, Case Western Reserve University Internet: chet@po.CWRU.Edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 10:06:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11526 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:06:21 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11519 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:06:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA02917; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 08:31:47 GMT Message-Id: <199504070831.IAA02917@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hack Request #1: Doom Seed In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 1995 12:33:26 +0200." <199504071033.MAA04026@nietzsche> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 08:31:46 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" said: > [ Doom clone proposal deleted ] > > Amancio, > > Did you check out the 'wt' engine. This is a project (or was) that > is targeted at developing a doom clone. 'wt' is the 3d-engine that > should drive it. Yes, I did check out wt as well as Doom on Lites+FreeBSD. "wt" in my opinion was too slow hence the need for a fresh new start... I am hoping to spark enough interest. I am sure that there are a couple of 3D graphic hackers out there willing to tackle the job. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 10:06:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11516 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:06:08 -0700 Received: from nietzsche (annex1s38.urc.tue.nl [131.155.12.48]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11509 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:06:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA07648; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 18:57:41 +0200 Message-Id: <199504071657.SAA07648@nietzsche> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" cc: Amancio Hasty , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hack Request #1: Doom Seed In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 1995 12:33:26 +0200." <199504071033.MAA04026@nietzsche> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 18:57:41 +0200 From: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ Doom clone proposal deleted ] > > Amancio, > > Did you check out the 'wt' engine. This is a project (or was) that > is targeted at developing a doom clone. 'wt' is the 3d-engine that > should drive it. > > I have been looking around and the most recent version I could find > was from Aug-94. I don't know if it's still actively developed, > but looks quite nice. They also have a world editor. > > The author is: Chris Laurel (claurel@mr.net), there is also supposed > to be a mailing-list. > Oops, forgot an ftp site, ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/unix/games/wt ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/games/video Marc. Marc van Kempen wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl He's dead Jim ..., kick him if you don't believe me. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 10:10:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11618 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:10:54 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11612 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:10:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03183; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:04:50 GMT Message-Id: <199504070904.JAA03183@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hack Request #1: Doom Seed In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 1995 18:57:41 +0200." <199504071657.SAA07648@nietzsche> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 09:04:48 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "wmbfmk@urc.tue.nl" said: > > [ Doom clone proposal deleted ] > > > > Amancio, > > > > Did you check out the 'wt' engine. This is a project (or was) that > > is targeted at developing a doom clone. 'wt' is the 3d-engine that > > should drive it. > > > > I have been looking around and the most recent version I could find > > was from Aug-94. I don't know if it's still actively developed, > > but looks quite nice. They also have a world editor. > > > > The author is: Chris Laurel (claurel@mr.net), there is also supposed > > to be a mailing-list. > > > Oops, forgot an ftp site, > > ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/unix/games/wt > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/games/video > > Marc. > > Don't forget that wt is slow and what we really need is a fresh new approach hence my omission of "wt" There is VRML floating around if people want to take a look at it. It is receiving a lot of press lately... Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:03:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14625 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:03:30 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14619 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:03:27 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02149; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:03:25 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504071803.OAA02149@goof.com> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: joeg@truenorth.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504062100.QAA05177@flowbee.interaccess.com> from "Joe Grosch" at Apr 6, 95 04:00:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1000 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joe Grosch wrote: > I had a conversation with some people at ACC-BookStore about Motif for > FreeBSD. Because of licensing issues their version of Motif is called > Swim. Version 2.0 for FreeBSD 2.0R will be shipping starting the end > of this week. When I was talking to them I didn't think to ask if Swim > was built against X11R5 or X11R6 or even which patch level. I'll call > them and find out. > > For more info send mail to info@acc-corp.com. In the subject field put > the words send swim20 and they will bounce back the info. > > Hope this helps It does! I just called them and it *IS* built against R6 includes and XFree 3.1 libs. Sounds like it outta work just fine... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:09:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14677 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:09:13 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14671 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:09:11 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02315; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:09:09 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504071809.OAA02315@goof.com> Subject: Re: CDROM stuff To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504070607.XAA06469@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 6, 95 11:07:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1340 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been > > trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I was > > wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and > > all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out > > > > open : Device not configured > Are you hitting the eject button while it is still playing? This drive, > due to the design, can not do a door lock to prevent you from ejecting > the drive while the CDROM is still in use. No, I was hitting the eject button on the xcdplayer. The cdrom made some noises like it was stopping, and doing an eject, but didn't finish it. Then the open error started occurring... > If this is occuring with the drive stopped and unmounted it should not be > a problem. It had an audio CD in it... (not mounted). > > until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there's > > one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:10:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14696 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:10:05 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14690 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:10:03 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02347; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:09:55 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504071809.OAA02347@goof.com> Subject: Re: CDROM stuff To: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:09:54 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com In-Reply-To: <199504070644.XAA27326@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Apr 6, 95 11:44:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 987 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been > >trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I was > >wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and > >all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out > >open : Device not configured > >until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there's > >one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! > This is a genereral problem with xcdplayer. Go make a patch for it and > I'd be happy to commit it to the tree. :) I'll look at it if I can figure out what it wants... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:11:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14734 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:11:51 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14728 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:11:49 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02393; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:11:42 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504071811.OAA02393@goof.com> Subject: Re: CDROM stuff To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Cc: gibbs@estienne.CS.Berkeley.EDU, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504070718.AAA06668@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 7, 95 00:18:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1869 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > >> I recently purchased a Chinon CDS-525 from Rodney Grimes, and I've been > > >> trying to get xcdplayer-2.2 (the one in the packages directory) going. I wa > > >s > > >> wondering if anyone has problems with this. It seems to play just fine and > > >> all, but when I hit the eject button, it spews out > > >> > > >> open : Device not configured > > >Are you hitting the eject button while it is still playing? This drive, > > >due to the design, can not do a door lock to prevent you from ejecting > > >the drive while the CDROM is still in use. > > >If this is occuring with the drive stopped and unmounted it should not be > > >a problem. > > >> until I pop the cd back in again and the cdrom drive tells the program there > > >'s > > >> one there... anyone know what I should do to fix this? Thanks! > > >It sounds like your ejecting the CDROM when the program does not want > > >you to :-(. > > If you read the source, xcdplayer polls the drive for a new disk once one > > is ejected, but also gives tons of error messages in the process. > Now why would I want to look at the source of xcdplayer when I don't > even have an Audio CD in the house to play :-) :-). :-) > But thank you for clarifying what was going on here, this is really > a bug in xcdplayer and not in the scsi code or a problem particular > to the CDROM drive I sold Matt! I didn't think there was a problem with the CDROM drive - it's been behaving quite nicely. I thought the problem was with the scsi code, or xcdplayer... :-) -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:19:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14844 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:19:12 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14836 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:19:10 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02456; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:13:58 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504071813.OAA02456@goof.com> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: krebs@faps.uni-erlangen.de (Thomas Krebs) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504070708.AA24334@behaim.faps.uni-erlangen.de> from "Thomas Krebs" at Apr 7, 95 09:06:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 741 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thomas Krebs wrote: > > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built > > against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > don't know where from you can get it (there are surely some vendors around, but > do you have enough money for sources?), but it compiles and works fine under > R6 (Xfree 3.1.1) with only minor modifications. Anyone know how to get in touch with OSF? I'd like to find out pricing... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:35:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15199 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:35:11 -0700 Received: from faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (root@faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.2.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15192 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:35:08 -0700 Received: from behaim.faps.uni-erlangen.de by uni-erlangen.de with SMTP; id AA24175 (5.65c-6/7.3w-FAU); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:29:16 +0200 Received: from riese.faps.uni-erlangen.de by faps.uni-erlangen.de with SMTP; id AA18893 (1.38.193.4/7.3s-FAU); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:29:56 +0200 From: Thomas Krebs Message-Id: <9504071829.AA18893@behaim.faps.uni-erlangen.de> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: mmead@goof.com (matthew c. mead) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 20:28:37 MESZ Cc: krebs@faps.uni-erlangen.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504071813.OAA02456@goof.com>; from "matthew c. mead" at Apr 7, 95 2:13 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone know how to get in touch with OSF? I'd like to find out > pricing... > Open Software Foundation, Inc. 11 Cambridge Center Cambridge, MA 02142 (617)621-8700 Thomas -- Thomas Krebs Department for Manufacturing Automation and Production Systems FAPS University of Erlangen Egerlandstr. 7-9 91058 Erlangen Tel.: +49 (0)9131/85-8740 Fax: +49 (0)9131/302528 http://www.faps.uni-erlangen.de:1200/persons/krebs.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:43:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15539 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:43:01 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15533 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:43:00 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20804; Fri, 7 Apr 95 12:32:07 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9504071832.AA20804@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 12:32:07 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504071627.LAA00501@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Apr 7, 95 11:27:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Large databases don't allow predictive read-ahead because they > > typically can't be modelled using a model that assumes locality > > of reference. > > Oops. I throught that database manager can accept multiple requests > from clients in parallel and issue multiple parallel requests to > the disk subsystem. Is this wrong ? I wrote a big trieste on fourth and fifth normal format, preemption models, work to do models, and process concurrency. I tend to do that when I see something that I've worked with in detail fly by. Anyway, rather than mail a 4 page document, suffice it to say there are some problems in the assumptions about "what concurrency is" built into the question itself. Consider: can you stripe the data that tells how you striped the data? Consider also, that the per transaction will go up only inter-process and not intra-process, and that an inter-transaction increase for a single client would require that client to break the request/response model defining the data streams as transactions in the first place. Finally, a transaction will require multiple datum to establish a relationship for a third normal format, and these requests can't be any better interleaved in a striped environment than not without changes to the process and kernel preemption models. Striping will buy you multiprocess improvements only. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:43:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA15560 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:43:26 -0700 Received: from mpp.com (dialup-1-16.gw.umn.edu [134.84.101.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15527 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:42:50 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA19489 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:41:34 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199504071841.NAA19489@mpp.com> Subject: Kernel makefile changes to allow builds in different trees To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:41:33 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 15473 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here are some changes to the kernel makefile and related programs that will allow you to build kernels somewhere other than /usr/src/sys/compile/xxx. This will allow you to have local copies of source files and work on them without having to worry about someone else/sup/whatever trashing them and without having to copy the entire /usr/src/sys tree. These changes should also let you compile off a read-only source tree (e.g. A CD-ROM), but I don't have any way to test that myself right now. The location of the sources is keyed off the "SRCROOT" environment variable. This defaults to "/usr/src" if SRCROOT is undefined. If this variable is defined, then the kernel makefile will use that directory for the source files if they are not present relative to the current build directory. An example of how to config a kernel that you want to build somewhere other than /usr/src/sys: # cd /usr/src/i386/conf # mkdir -p /usr/src/tmp/sys/compile/XXX # ln -s /usr/src/tmp/sys compile/XXX ../../compile/XXX # config -n XXX # cd /usr/src/tmp/sys/compile/XXX # mkdir ../../scsi # cp /usr/src/sys/scsi/sd.c ../../scsi # vi ../../scsi/sd.c [make your local changes to sd.c] # make depend # make Since the makefile defaults to looking in /usr/src if it can't find the sources relative to the current compile directory, SRCROOT doesn't need to be defined in this example. If you are upgrading, say from 2.0 to 2.1 and have your new 2.1 kernel sources in /usr/src2.1/sys and wanted to compile with those sources, simply set SRCROOT=/usr/src2.1 before doing your makes. You would also use this to compile from sources on a CD-ROM. Be sure to recompile "config" and "make" before attempting to use the new makefile. You also need to do the following if you want to be able to build from anywhere but /usr/src/sys/compile/XXX: cd /usr/src/sys/i386 ln -s include machine or if you are not changing any of the files in i386/include/*, you could do the following in your local compile/source tree: cd /usr/src/tmp/sys/i386 ln -s /usr/src/sys/i386/include machine To the core team: Is there some reason why /usr/src/sys/i386/include shouldn't be renamed to /usr/src/sys/i386/machine? That would eliminate the symbolic link junk, and it is more in line with the way every other include directory is named. I also had to fix make to not do some of the directory caching it has been doing. This looks like it is really only a problem when you are using .PATH to setup a list of directories for make to search. What would happen is that if I had ../../kern/kern_tty.c in my local build directory, and no other files in ../../kern, when make looked for the first file in kern (imgact_aout.c), it would find it in /usr/src/sys/kern/imgact_aout.c. Thinking that it is doing you a favor, it would add /usr/src/sys/kern to the list of directories to search. Due to this and the way make works, when it finally tries to compile kern_tty.c, it finds it in /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_tty.c, instead of ../../kern/kern_tty.c. I removed the code from make that was adding directories to the directory list and that fixed the problem. However, I'm worried that this may reveal problems in other makefiles. I've done a "make world" in /usr/src with my new make and everything seems to be working fine, but if someone has some heavy duty makefiles, I would like them to test the changes out and make sure I didn't break anything. The funny thing is, even though the comments in make claim that it is adding those directories in the hope that it will help speed things up, with my change in, a full kernel "make depend; make all" winds up taking the same amount of time. Here are the patches. In order they are to the following programs/files: usr.bin/make/dir.c, usr.sbin/config/mkmakefile.c, sys/i386/conf/files.i386. I've included the entire sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386, since the patch was bigger than the makefile. Each patch/file is separated by "--cut here--" lines: ----cut here---- *** make/orig/dir.c Fri Apr 7 04:03:12 1995 --- make/dir.c Fri Apr 7 09:29:58 1995 *************** *** 604,610 **** if (*dp == '/') *dp = '\0'; path = Lst_Init(FALSE); - Dir_AddDir(path, dirpath); DirExpandInt(cp+1, path, expansions); Lst_Destroy(path, NOFREE); } --- 604,609 ---- *************** *** 825,845 **** } Lst_Close (path); - - /* - * We've found another directory to search. We know there's - * a slash in 'file' because we put one there. We nuke it after - * finding it and call Dir_AddDir to add this new directory - * onto the existing search path. Once that's done, we restore - * the slash and triumphantly return the file name, knowing - * that should a file in this directory every be referenced - * again in such a manner, we will find it without having to do - * numerous numbers of access calls. Hurrah! - */ - cp = strrchr (file, '/'); - *cp = '\0'; - Dir_AddDir (path, file); - *cp = '/'; /* * Save the modification time so if it's needed, we don't have --- 824,829 ---- ----cut here----- *** /usr/src/usr.sbin/config/mkmakefile.c Wed Mar 1 09:22:09 1995 --- config/mkmakefile.c Fri Apr 7 09:47:13 1995 *************** *** 497,506 **** lpos = 8; fputs("\\\n\t", fp); } ! if (tp->f_flags & NO_IMPLCT_RULE) ! fprintf(fp, "%s ", tp->f_fn); ! else ! fprintf(fp, "$S/%s ", tp->f_fn); lpos += len + 1; } if (lpos != 8) --- 497,503 ---- lpos = 8; fputs("\\\n\t", fp); } ! fprintf(fp, "%s ", tp->f_fn); lpos += len + 1; } if (lpos != 8) *************** *** 563,569 **** lpos = 8; fputs("\\\n\t", fp); } ! fprintf(fp, "$S/%s ", tp->f_fn); lpos += len + 1; } for (fl = conf_list; fl; fl = fl->f_next) --- 560,566 ---- lpos = 8; fputs("\\\n\t", fp); } ! fprintf(fp, "%s ", tp->f_fn); lpos += len + 1; } for (fl = conf_list; fl; fl = fl->f_next) *************** *** 574,580 **** fputs("\\\n\t", fp); } if (eq(fl->f_fn, "generic")) ! fprintf(fp, "$S/%s/%s/%s ", machinename, machinename, swapname); else fprintf(fp, "%s ", swapname); --- 571,577 ---- fputs("\\\n\t", fp); } if (eq(fl->f_fn, "generic")) ! fprintf(fp, "%s/%s/%s ", machinename, machinename, swapname); else fprintf(fp, "%s ", swapname); *************** *** 624,638 **** else { *cp = '\0'; if (och == 'o') { ! fprintf(f, "%so:\n\t-cp $S/%so .\n\n", tail(np), np); continue; } if (ftp->f_depends) ! fprintf(f, "%so: $S/%s%c %s\n", tail(np), np, och, ftp->f_depends); else ! fprintf(f, "%so: $S/%s%c\n", tail(np), np, och); } tp = tail(np); --- 621,635 ---- else { *cp = '\0'; if (och == 'o') { ! fprintf(f, "%so:\n\t-cp %so .\n\n", tail(np), np); continue; } if (ftp->f_depends) ! fprintf(f, "%so: %s%c %s\n", tail(np), np, och, ftp->f_depends); else ! fprintf(f, "%so: %s%c\n", tail(np), np, och); } tp = tail(np); *************** *** 741,747 **** if (!eq(name, "generic")) fprintf(f, "swap%s.o: swap%s.c\n", name, name); else ! fprintf(f, "swapgeneric.o: $S/%s/%s/swapgeneric.c\n", machinename, machinename); fprintf(f, "\t${NORMAL_C}\n\n"); } --- 738,744 ---- if (!eq(name, "generic")) fprintf(f, "swap%s.o: swap%s.c\n", name, name); else ! fprintf(f, "swapgeneric.o: %s/%s/swapgeneric.c\n", machinename, machinename); fprintf(f, "\t${NORMAL_C}\n\n"); } ----cut here---- *** /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/files.i386 Mon Mar 27 15:23:03 1995 --- i386/conf/files.i386 Fri Apr 7 03:05:09 1995 *************** *** 4,16 **** # $Id: files.i386,v 1.92 1995/03/27 19:39:45 ache Exp $ # aic7xxx optional ahc device-driver \ ! dependency "$S/gnu/misc/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.c" \ compile-with "${CC} -o $@ $>" \ no-obj no-implicit-rule \ clean "aic7xxx" aic7xxx_seq.h optional ahc device-driver \ ! dependency "$S/gnu/misc/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq aic7xxx" \ ! compile-with "./aic7xxx -o $@ $S/gnu/misc/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq" \ no-obj no-implicit-rule before-depend \ clean "aic7xxx_seq.h" i386/apm/apm.c optional apm device-driver --- 4,16 ---- # $Id: files.i386,v 1.92 1995/03/27 19:39:45 ache Exp $ # aic7xxx optional ahc device-driver \ ! dependency "gnu/misc/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.c" \ compile-with "${CC} -o $@ $>" \ no-obj no-implicit-rule \ clean "aic7xxx" aic7xxx_seq.h optional ahc device-driver \ ! dependency "aic7xxx gnu/misc/aic7xxx/aic7xxx.seq" \ ! compile-with "./aic7xxx -o $@ `echo $> | sed 's;^aic7xxx ;;'`" \ no-obj no-implicit-rule before-depend \ clean "aic7xxx_seq.h" i386/apm/apm.c optional apm device-driver ----cut here----(sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 follows) # Copyright 1990 W. Jolitz # from: @(#)Makefile.i386 7.1 5/10/91 # $Id: Makefile.i386,v 1.62 1995/04/05 04:10:58 nate Exp $ # # Makefile for FreeBSD # # This makefile is constructed from a machine description: # config machineid # Most changes should be made in the machine description # /sys/i386/conf/``machineid'' # after which you should do # config machineid # Generic makefile changes should be made in # /sys/i386/conf/Makefile.i386 # after which config should be rerun for all machines. # CC?= cc CPP?= cpp LD?= /usr/bin/ld .if ! defined(SRCROOT) SRCROOT= /usr/src .endif .if exists(./@/.) S= ./@ .else S= ${SRCROOT}/sys .endif I386= i386 # This hack is to allow kernel compiles to succeed on machines w/out srcdist # and must be done before .PATH is set below, otherwise make will check # if the directory exists relative to the .PATH directories. .if exists(../../../include) INCS= -I../../../include .elif exists(${SRCROOT}/include) INCS= -I${SRCROOT}/include .else INCS= -I/usr/include .endif .PATH: ../.. $S .SUFFIXES: .c .h .s .raw .sh .src .seq CWARNFLAGS?=-W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit # # The following flags are next up for working on: # -Wnested-externs (almost works) # -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations # # When working on removing warnings from code, the `-Werror' flag should be # of material assistance. # COPTFLAGS?=-O # Not ready for -I- yet. #include "foo.h" where foo.h is in the srcdir fails. INCLUDES= -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I$S -I$S/sys -I$S/${I386} \ ${INCS} COPTS= ${INCLUDES} ${IDENT} -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0x${LOAD_ADDRESS} ASFLAGS= CFLAGS= ${COPTFLAGS} ${CWARNFLAGS} ${DEBUG} ${COPTS} LOAD_ADDRESS?= F0100000 NORMAL_C= ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ${PROF} $< NORMAL_C_C= ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ${PROF} ${PARAM} $< # XXX errors leak out of all the pipes. Should use cc *.S. # XXX LOCORE means "don't declare C stuff" not "for locore.s". NORMAL_S= ${CPP} -DLOCORE ${COPTS} $< | ${AS} ${ASFLAGS} -o $*.o DRIVER_C= ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ${PROF} $< DRIVER_C_C= ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ${PROF} ${PARAM} $< PROFILE_C= ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ${PARAM} $< SFILES= ${I386}/i386/exception.s ${I386}/i386/microtime.s \ ${I386}/i386/support.s ${I386}/i386/swtch.s ${I386}/apm/apm_setup.s SYSTEM_CFILES= ioconf.c param.c vnode_if.c SYSTEM_SFILES= ${I386}/i386/locore.s SYSTEM_OBJS= locore.o vnode_if.o ${OBJS} ioconf.o param.o SYSTEM_DEP= Makefile symbols.exclude symbols.sort ${SYSTEM_OBJS} libkern.a SYSTEM_LD_HEAD= @echo loading $@; rm -f $@ SYSTEM_LD= @${LD} -Bstatic -Z -T ${LOAD_ADDRESS} -o $@ -X ${SYSTEM_OBJS} vers.o libkern.a .if ${CFLAGS:M-g} == "" SYMORDER_EXCLUDE=-x symbols.exclude .endif SYSTEM_LD_TAIL= @echo rearranging symbols; \ symorder -m ${SYMORDER_EXCLUDE} symbols.sort $@; \ size $@; chmod 755 $@ %BEFORE_DEPEND %OBJS %CFILES %LOAD %CLEAN # This is slightly different from before in that if you define PROF # to anything, it will assume profiling. Don't do "PROF=" to turn # profiling off! .if exists(../../libkern) LIBKERNDIR=../../libkern .else LIBKERNDIR=$S/libkern .endif .if exists(${LIBKERNDIR}/obj) LIBKERNP=${LIBKERNDIR}/obj .else LIBKERNP=${LIBKERNDIR} .endif .if defined(PROF) LIBKERN=${LIBKERNP}/libkern_p.a .else LIBKERN=${LIBKERNP}/libkern.a .endif libkern.a: ${LIBKERN} @rm -f libkern.a ln -s ${LIBKERN} libkern.a ${LIBKERN}: @(cd ${LIBKERNDIR}; make) clean: rm -f eddep kernel tags *.o *.s errs linterrs makelinks genassym \ symbols.exclude symbols.sort ${CLEAN} #lint: /tmp param.c # @lint -hbxn -DGENERIC -Dvolatile= ${COPTS} ${PARAM} \ # ${I386}/i386/Locore.c ${CFILES} ioconf.c param.c | \ # grep -v 'struct/union .* never defined' | \ # grep -v 'possible pointer alignment problem' symbols.exclude: Makefile echo "gcc2_compiled." >symbols.exclude echo "___gnu_compiled_c" >>symbols.exclude symbols.sort: ${I386}/i386/symbols.raw grep -v '^#' $> | sed 's/^ //' | sort -u > symbols.sort locore.o: ${I386}/i386/locore.s assym.s ${NORMAL_S} # everything potentially depends on the Makefile since everything potentially # depends on the options. Some things are more dependent on the Makefile for # historical reasons. machdep.o: Makefile # the following is necessary because autoconf.o depends on #if GENERIC autoconf.o: Makefile # depend on network configuration af.o uipc_proto.o locore.o: Makefile # depends on KDB (cons.o also depends on GENERIC) trap.o cons.o: Makefile # this rule stops ./assym.s in .depend from causing problems ./assym.s: assym.s assym.s: genassym ./genassym >assym.s # Some of the defines that genassym outputs may well depend on the # value of kernel options. genassym.o: ${I386}/i386/genassym.c Makefile ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ${PARAM} -UKERNEL $< genassym: genassym.o ${CC} -static ${CFLAGS} ${PARAM} genassym.o -o $@ # XXX this assumes that the options for NORMAL_C* and DRIVER_C* are identical. depend: ${BEFORE_DEPEND} assym.s param.c vnode_if.h depend_cfiles \ depend_genassym depend_sfiles ${BEFORE_DEPEND} depend_cfiles: ${CFILES} ${SYSTEM_CFILES} mkdep ${COPTS} $> depend_genassym: ${I386}/i386/genassym.c mkdep -a ${COPTS} ${PARAM} -UKERNEL $> depend_sfiles: ${SFILES} ${SYSTEM_SFILES} MKDEP_CPP=${CPP} ; export MKDEP_CPP ; \ mkdep -a -DLOCORE ${COPTS} $> links: ${CFILES} egrep '#if' $> | sed -f ../../conf/defines | \ sed -e 's/:.*//' -e 's/\.c/.o/' | sort -u > dontlink echo $> | tr -s ' ' '\12' | sed 's/\.c/.o/' | \ sort -u | comm -23 - dontlink | \ sed 's,.*/\(.*.o\),rm -f \1;ln -s ../GENERIC/\1 \1,' > makelinks sh makelinks && rm -f dontlink tags: @echo "see ../../kern/Makefile for tags" install: chflags noschg /kernel mv /kernel /kernel.old install -c -m 555 -o root -g wheel -fschg kernel / ioconf.o: ioconf.c sys/param.h ${I386}/include/pte.h sys/buf.h \ ${I386}/isa/isa_device.h ${I386}/isa/isa.h \ ${I386}/isa/icu.h ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ioconf.c param.c: conf/param.c -rm -f param.c cp $> . param.o: param.c Makefile ${CC} -c ${CFLAGS} ${PARAM} param.c vers.o: ${SYSTEM_DEP} ${SYSTEM_SWAP_DEP} ver_sh ver_sh: conf/newvers.sh sh $> ${KERN_IDENT} ${IDENT} ${CC} ${CFLAGS} -c vers.c vnode_if.c: kern/vnode_if.sh kern/vnode_if.src sh $> vnode_if.h: kern/vnode_if.sh kern/vnode_if.src sh $> %RULES # DO NOT DELETE THIS LINE -- make depend uses it ----cut here---- -- Mike Pritchard pritc003@maroon.tc.umn.edu "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:48:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA16979 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:48:14 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA16973 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:48:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03746 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:42:11 GMT Message-Id: <199504071042.KAA03746@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: PPP and Multiscast ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 10:42:10 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am wondering if PPP supports IP Multicast and if not why ? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 11:54:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA17177 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:54:27 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17171 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:54:25 -0700 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA21823; Fri, 7 Apr 95 14:53:53 -0400 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA01157; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:53:52 -0400 Message-Id: <9504071853.AA01157@fedora.x.org> To: "matthew c. mead" Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 07 Apr 1995 14:13:57 EDT. <199504071813.OAA02456@goof.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 14:53:52 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Thomas Krebs wrote: > > > > Does anyone know from whom you can buy Motif 2.0 libs and includes built > > > against R6 for FreeBSD? Thanks... > > > don't know where from you can get it (there are surely some vendors around, but > > do you have enough money for sources?), but it compiles and works fine under > > R6 (Xfree 3.1.1) with only minor modifications. > > Anyone know how to get in touch with OSF? I'd like to find out > pricing... > http://www.osf.org:8001/ probably has everything you need. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:18:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17605 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:18:33 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17591 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:18:26 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id VAA22216; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:17:51 +0200 Received: from knobel (knobel [149.237.250.1]) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03930 Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:44:25 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:44:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm X-Sender: andreas@knobel To: Ollivier Robert cc: "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <199503092149.WAA02074@keltia.frmug.fr.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Mar 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > Here is my /etc/printcap file [...] > I could -- and should -- use Klemmer's package which by far better than > that but the principle "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" just suits me. Joerg made me curious about this thread, so I just start reading it. Robert, what's not ok with my "GPL" copyright ?! If something is broken with apsfilter I'm glad, if someone gives me a good bug report or patch and if I have time, I fix it. No idea, why there should be something not ok... ?! Regards Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:18:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17597 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:18:27 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17590 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:18:24 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id VAA22219; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:17:53 +0200 Received: from knobel (knobel [149.237.250.1]) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03936 Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:47:10 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:47:10 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm X-Sender: andreas@knobel To: -Vince- cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Ollivier Robert , "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > Here is my /etc/printcap file > > > ... > > > > Does anyone "own" printing under FreeBSD? I've often felt there to be > > a great, sucking vacuum in the printing side of things and it really > > would be NIFTY if somebody who actually OWNED A PRINTER (this does not > > include me) and was kind of DETAIL MINDED actually got mad and angry > > enough about the poor printer support and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. > > > > Any takers? :-) > > > > Jordan > > > > Well, I actually OWN A PRINTER or to be exact, one HP DeskJet > 560C, DeskJet Portable 310 and a DeskJet 500 and recently got printing of > everything except for dvi files under apsfilter 4.9 delta which I am > trying out... Time to add apsfilter to the ports collection? :-) Nice to hear, that you are satisfied with it ... Yeah, it works with FreeBSD 2.X after I received a fix for rewindstdin. So there should be no problem to add it to the ports list. Andreas /// From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:19:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17618 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:19:39 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17612 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:19:36 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id VAA22225; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:18:03 +0200 Received: from knobel (knobel [149.237.250.1]) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03963 Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:55:50 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:55:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm X-Sender: andreas@knobel To: Gary Palmer cc: "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <873.796836524@palmer.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > In message <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com>, "Paul F. Werkowski" writes: > > I just happened to get a DeskJet 540 last weekend and spent > > an afternoon trying to get the thing to work. I found buried > > in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" along with > > some install script that created a bunch of cdj-550.x print > > queues and a printcap file that basically turned the Deskjet > > into a postscript printer. That, along with a2ps and dvips > > seems to be all that one needs to get the job done. It was > > simple enough to do but it sure would be nice to have it > > automated - or even a good pointer as to where to find the > > needed files. > > I hate to say it but apsfilter is probably a better bet that gs. AFAIR it > handles DVI files internally, so you can just lpr foo.dvi and have it print. > (although it still dvips foo.dvi, (gs -whatever) foo.ps, at least it's hidden > from you :-) ) Even lpr postscript.PS.gz dvi-file.dvi.Z ascii-text.gz picture.gif is possible with apsfilter. Thomas Bueschgens reported to me, that Thomas Esser teTeX-0.3 works really good. He wrote a shell script to setup a working config file for dvips. When fetching/porting a TeX package, I'd suggest using teTeX. It has kpathsea and many many fonts ... xdvi ... fonts will be created as needed ... a cool package ! Andreas /// From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:20:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17657 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:20:34 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17650 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:20:27 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id VAA22234; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:18:09 +0200 Received: from knobel (knobel [149.237.250.1]) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA04032 Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:11:28 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:11:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm X-Sender: andreas@knobel To: -Vince- cc: Ollivier Robert , Gary Palmer , tom@haven.uniserve.com, pw@snoopy.MV.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > > > Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. > > > I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will > > > give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. > > > > Where one may find the latest version of apsfilter ? I used archie and > > it came out with a 1.11 version of it... > > -- > > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > > FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 > > > > Well, I put apsfilter 4.9 delta on ftp.freebsd.org under > /pub/FreeBSD/incoming/aps-4.9delta.tar.gz ... Just a note to everyone > that grabs it, in case you're wondering why the file isn't coming out of > the printer, edit apsfilter/bin/apsfilter and comment the line that is > there to save paper for testing puproses... :-) Oh my goodness ;-)...... Noooo ;-))) Time for a working 4.9 ;-))) I hope you get it running anyway... Andreas /// From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:20:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17664 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:20:35 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17642 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:20:23 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id VAA22228; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:18:05 +0200 Received: from knobel (knobel [149.237.250.1]) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA04004 Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:04:17 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:04:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm X-Sender: andreas@knobel To: -Vince- cc: Gary Palmer , "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, sledge@hammer.oche.de Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > > > In message <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com>, "Paul F. Werkowski" writes: > > > I just happened to get a DeskJet 540 last weekend and spent > > > an afternoon trying to get the thing to work. I found buried > > > in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" along with > > > some install script that created a bunch of cdj-550.x print > > > queues and a printcap file that basically turned the Deskjet > > > into a postscript printer. That, along with a2ps and dvips > > > seems to be all that one needs to get the job done. It was > > > simple enough to do but it sure would be nice to have it > > > automated - or even a good pointer as to where to find the > > > needed files. > > > > I hate to say it but apsfilter is probably a better bet that gs. AFAIR it To be fair to gs ... apsfilter uses gs as filter if you have a "normal" printer. apsfilter can handle PS printers, too. Then PRINT_PS is simply: cat - :) otherwise "gs - ..........." > dvi is the only thing that is broken in the 4.9 delta version of > apsfilter atleast for the deskjet is concerned... Are you sure ? I got other infos by Thomas Bueschgens. In most cases it doesn't work, if your dvips's config file isn't ok. You should ask Thomas Bueschgens for that. He is the kind soul, who helped me a lot, when I was short in time ... and his "baby" is dvips .. He's a real TeXnician ! ;-) Ask him ... if dvips is setup correctly and if permissions are ok, then there are no problems ... (I hope! Tooooommmmmmm.... :) Thomas, perhaps you could help concerning this topic ? Please drop a Cc: into this mailing list, tnx. ..... Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:20:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17647 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:20:24 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17628 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:20:15 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id VAA22231; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:18:07 +0200 Received: from knobel (knobel [149.237.250.1]) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA04013 Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:09:06 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:09:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm X-Sender: andreas@knobel To: Ollivier Robert cc: Gary Palmer , tom@haven.uniserve.com, vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu, pw@snoopy.MV.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <9504030919.AA08358@blaise.ibp.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. > > I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will > > give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. > > Where one may find the latest version of apsfilter ? I used archie and > it came out with a 1.11 version of it... ok ok , you win ;-) apsfilter currently resides on perhaps not so famous hosts, where archie "hits". 4.9 delta is the most current and stable. The last good release before that was 4.8.1. With most Linux Distribs 4.8 is shipped *sigh*... I'd suggest getting 4.9 delta. Look into my sig for the address. Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:26:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17798 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:26:59 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA17791 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:26:49 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id VAA22222; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:17:58 +0200 Received: from knobel (knobel [149.237.250.1]) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03956 Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:51:23 +0200 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:51:23 +0200 (MET DST) From: Andreas Klemm X-Sender: andreas@knobel To: J Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <199504020951.LAA01097@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, J Wunsch wrote: > ...perhaps also a reference to apsfilter? (Oooh! We don't even have > a port for it! Andreas, are you also listening here?) apsfilter 4.9 should work out of the box on 2.X. rewindstdin is the only program that needed a patch. But that's already done. The only problem is a nice setup program in the style of Jordans setup using the dialog library. Although I have a working setup script in apsfilter, it's perhaps a bit clumsy compared to Jordans work ... any volunteers ?! ;-) Andreas /// From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:28:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17818 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:28:47 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA17811 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:28:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Andreas Klemm cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Ollivier Robert , "FreeBSD Hackers' list" Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > > On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > > > Here is my /etc/printcap file > > > > ... > > > > > > Does anyone "own" printing under FreeBSD? I've often felt there to be > > > a great, sucking vacuum in the printing side of things and it really > > > would be NIFTY if somebody who actually OWNED A PRINTER (this does not > > > include me) and was kind of DETAIL MINDED actually got mad and angry > > > enough about the poor printer support and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT. > > > > > > Any takers? :-) > > > > > > Jordan > > > > > > > Well, I actually OWN A PRINTER or to be exact, one HP DeskJet > > 560C, DeskJet Portable 310 and a DeskJet 500 and recently got printing of > > everything except for dvi files under apsfilter 4.9 delta which I am > > trying out... Time to add apsfilter to the ports collection? :-) > > Nice to hear, that you are satisfied with it ... Yeah, it works > with FreeBSD 2.X after I received a fix for rewindstdin. > Well, 99% satisfied now :-) > So there should be no problem to add it to the ports list. > > Andreas /// > Well, except for the fact that printing dvi's doesn't work in 4.9 while it did in 4.8.1.. Cheers, Vince -*vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu*- UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:30:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17856 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:30:38 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA17850 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:30:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:29:55 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Andreas Klemm cc: Ollivier Robert , Gary Palmer , tom@haven.uniserve.com, pw@snoopy.MV.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - > > *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** > ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) > > On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > > > > > Most of them (apart from apsfilter) are in the ports/print directory. > > > > I think a solution is being worked on so that if you install 2.1 it will > > > > give you the option of installing these also from a nice menuing system. > > > > > > Where one may find the latest version of apsfilter ? I used archie and > > > it came out with a 1.11 version of it... > > > -- > > > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > > > FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 > > > > > > > Well, I put apsfilter 4.9 delta on ftp.freebsd.org under > > /pub/FreeBSD/incoming/aps-4.9delta.tar.gz ... Just a note to everyone > > that grabs it, in case you're wondering why the file isn't coming out of > > the printer, edit apsfilter/bin/apsfilter and comment the line that is > > there to save paper for testing puproses... :-) > > Oh my goodness ;-)...... Noooo ;-))) > > Time for a working 4.9 ;-))) I hope you get it running anyway... > > > Andreas /// > So 4.9 is out already? ;-) Time for a update! ;-) Cheers, Vince -*vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu*- UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:34:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17925 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:34:32 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA17918 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:34:30 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:33:51 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: Andreas Klemm cc: Gary Palmer , "Paul F. Werkowski" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, sledge@hammer.oche.de Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, -Vince- wrote: > > > On Sun, 2 Apr 1995, Gary Palmer wrote: > > > > > In message <199504021429.KAA01040@snoopy.mv.com>, "Paul F. Werkowski" writes: > > > > I just happened to get a DeskJet 540 last weekend and spent > > > > an afternoon trying to get the thing to work. I found buried > > > > in the ghostscript port a file called "unix-pr" along with > > > > some install script that created a bunch of cdj-550.x print > > > > queues and a printcap file that basically turned the Deskjet > > > > into a postscript printer. That, along with a2ps and dvips > > > > seems to be all that one needs to get the job done. It was > > > > simple enough to do but it sure would be nice to have it > > > > automated - or even a good pointer as to where to find the > > > > needed files. > > > > > > I hate to say it but apsfilter is probably a better bet that gs. AFAIR it > > To be fair to gs ... apsfilter uses gs as filter if you have a "normal" > printer. apsfilter can handle PS printers, too. > > Then PRINT_PS is simply: cat - :) otherwise "gs - ..........." > > > dvi is the only thing that is broken in the 4.9 delta version of > > apsfilter atleast for the deskjet is concerned... > > Are you sure ? I got other infos by Thomas Bueschgens. In most > cases it doesn't work, if your dvips's config file isn't ok. > Yes, I have been conversing with Thomas on this one and the dvips's config file is okay according to him. > You should ask Thomas Bueschgens for that. He > is the kind soul, who helped me a lot, when I was short in time ... and > his "baby" is dvips .. He's a real TeXnician ! ;-) Ask him ... if > dvips is setup correctly and if permissions are ok, then there are > no problems ... (I hope! Tooooommmmmmm.... :) > Hmmm, I don't understand why it worked in 4.8.1 though so Thomas? > Thomas, perhaps you could help concerning this topic ? > Please drop a Cc: into this mailing list, tnx. > ..... > > > Andreas /// > > -- > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - > > *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** > ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) > Cheers, Vince -*vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu*- UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 12:45:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18137 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:45:46 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (mailhub.tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA18131 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:45:45 -0700 Received: by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) Message-Id: From: julian@tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Subject: Re: PPP and Multiscast ... To: hasty@star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 12:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504071042.KAA03746@star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Apr 7, 95 10:42:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 232 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk By defintion, yes, and no.. you are ALWAYS talking to ALL other hosts on a PPP link! (i.e. one other hosts)... :) julian > > > Hi, > I am wondering if PPP supports IP Multicast and if not why ? > > Tnks, > Amancio > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 13:25:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA18823 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:25:54 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (root@efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA18816 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:25:50 -0700 Received: from haus.efn.org.efn.org by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AB27019; Fri, 7 Apr 95 13:22:58 PDT Received: by haus.efn.org.efn.org (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07552; Fri, 7 Apr 95 13:25:32 PDT Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:25:31 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@cs.sunysb.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance In-Reply-To: <199504060650.XAA02656@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running > > > as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more > > > specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. > > > > actually... I think that I am currently running my isa bus at 16mhz... I > > think for a while I was tring to run the bus at 20... but it was falling > > over and wouldn't boot... and this is with ne2000 clone cards... and > > other generic cards... > > I suspect you are off by a factor of 2, I haven't seen a ``generic'' > card of any sort that would run at 12Mhz, let alone 16Mhz. IDE controllers > are famous for falling over above 10Mhz (ever done a transmission line > simulation of an unterminated ribbon cable :-)). also... I am running a VL/Bus IDE controler if that makes any difference... > If your basing this on a CPUCLK/N value and you think CPUCLK is 66 Mhz > because that is what the crystal is you have made a mistake. Can you > tell me what CPU chip you have, what speed is it, and what your BIOS > says about ISA bus clock speed settings (list all the valid values). ok... I have a Intel 486/33DX that I am running at 40Mhz with a cpu cooling fan attached... I know that it is running at 40Mhz as I set the jumpers (mb used os chip) and sysinfo returns it... I have the CLK set to CLK2/2.... > Also what BIOS is it? AMI, Pheonix, AWARD or someone else. it is an AMI bios... > Realize a 486DX33, 486DX2/66 and 486DX4/100** all run with a CPUCLK of > 33 Mhz. A 486DX25, 486DX2/50 and 486DX4/75 all run with a CPUCLK of > 25 Mhz. A 486DX50 runs with a CPUCLK of 50Mhz. yup... so my computer is running at 40mhz... no double or anything... > ** The 486DX4/100 can also be run with a CPUCLK of 50Mhz if the motherboard > supports the 1:2 bus/core ratio jumper. kool... might want to look into this :) > Pentium processors are similiar except the CPUCLK values are 50Mhz, 60Mhz > and 66Mhz. possibly 90Mhz?? or is that achived some other way? thanks for the info though... TTYL... John-Mark Gurney gurney_j@efn.org -or- gurney_j@4j.lane.edu -or- Fido: John-Mark Gurney @ 1:152/56.2 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 13:37:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA19204 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:37:50 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA19196 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:37:42 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id NAA08323; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:37:25 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504072037.NAA08323@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance To: gurney_j@efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Apr 7, 95 01:25:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3230 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 5 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 4 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > ISA does not have a specified clock frequency, I have seen it running > > > > as fast as 16Mhz. Most boards die above 10Mhz, but some of the more > > > > specialized industrial applications boards are spec'd upto 12 or 16Mhz. > > > > > > actually... I think that I am currently running my isa bus at 16mhz... I > > > think for a while I was tring to run the bus at 20... but it was falling > > > over and wouldn't boot... and this is with ne2000 clone cards... and > > > other generic cards... > > > > I suspect you are off by a factor of 2, I haven't seen a ``generic'' > > card of any sort that would run at 12Mhz, let alone 16Mhz. IDE controllers > > are famous for falling over above 10Mhz (ever done a transmission line > > simulation of an unterminated ribbon cable :-)). > > also... I am running a VL/Bus IDE controler if that makes any difference... Yea, it can, your IDE disk is not on the ISA bus at all, it is on the VLB bus. > > If your basing this on a CPUCLK/N value and you think CPUCLK is 66 Mhz > > because that is what the crystal is you have made a mistake. Can you > > tell me what CPU chip you have, what speed is it, and what your BIOS > > says about ISA bus clock speed settings (list all the valid values). > > ok... I have a Intel 486/33DX that I am running at 40Mhz with a cpu > cooling fan attached... I know that it is running at 40Mhz as I set the > jumpers (mb used os chip) and sysinfo returns it... I have the CLK set > to CLK2/2.... ^^^^ CLK2 is often 1/2 the cpu clock, CLK2 is not the same as CPUCLK. So CLK2/2 would be 10Mhz for your system. The only real way to find this out is to hang a scope on the bus and look at the timing. > > Also what BIOS is it? AMI, Pheonix, AWARD or someone else. > > it is an AMI bios... > > > Realize a 486DX33, 486DX2/66 and 486DX4/100** all run with a CPUCLK of > > 33 Mhz. A 486DX25, 486DX2/50 and 486DX4/75 all run with a CPUCLK of > > 25 Mhz. A 486DX50 runs with a CPUCLK of 50Mhz. > > yup... so my computer is running at 40mhz... no double or anything... > > > ** The 486DX4/100 can also be run with a CPUCLK of 50Mhz if the motherboard > > supports the 1:2 bus/core ratio jumper. > > kool... might want to look into this :) A DX4 running externally at 50Mhz An internally at 100Mhz should do better than a DX4 running externally at 33.33MHz and internally at 99.99Mhz. > > Pentium processors are similiar except the CPUCLK values are 50Mhz, 60Mhz > > and 66Mhz. > > possibly 90Mhz?? or is that achived some other way? THe 90Mhz part runs externally at 60Mhz and internally at 90Mhz (2:3 bus:core ratio). Likewize the P54C-100 runs externally at 66Mhz and internally at 100Mhz. Accourding to some data I have ``later Pentium CPUs will support the 1:2 ratio, which will allow a 100Mhz Pentium to run with an external clock speed of either 50 or 66Mhz''. > > thanks for the info though... TTYL... Your welcome... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 14:01:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19671 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:01:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA19664 ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:01:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 95 08:58:13 EDT." <9504071258.AA00840@fedora.x.org> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 14:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: <19663.797288479@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > R6 is a superset of R5. To the extent that Motif relies on R5-isms, > they're all still there in R6, with a lot fewer bugs. The real problem with compiling Motif 1.x under X11R6 is that the config files clash - you can't simply copy one over the other, you need to carefully merge them. Perhaps this has been something of what people are talking about (and I hate it - XView and Interviews do the same bloody thing). Has this been fixed in Motif 2.0? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 14:02:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA19733 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:02:46 -0700 Received: from mercury.unt.edu (mercury.unt.edu [129.120.1.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA19727 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:02:44 -0700 Received: from gab.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AA19196 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:02:40 -0500 Received: from GAB/MAILQUEUE by gab.unt.edu (Mercury 1.13); Fri, 7 Apr 95 16:02:41 CST6CDT Received: from MAILQUEUE by GAB (Mercury 1.13); Fri, 7 Apr 95 16:02:40 CST6CDT From: "John Booth" Organization: University of North Texas To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:02:35 CST6CDT Subject: mb_map full, intermittent net. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <16F65D5088@gab.unt.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 1. I've been getting a mb_map full error on console & messages log. Why would the table be running out while there is still swap space? Is there something I can change to add more table space? Should this ever happen? 2. After being on the net for several hours (6 or more usually) the net will go down. It's always been a process that uses sockets (telnet was the last process) that seems to cause the net outage. It was using 120% cpu (ps -aux showed). I killed it and net came back immediately. I can ping my address from console, but a ping to any other address on same subnet just sits there until the offending process is killed. This NEVER happened w/2.0R or 1.1.5R. The machine has been up for 3 days so far and has lost net about 4 times. I'm using a 486 dx2/66 (intel), ne2000 clone irq 5 port 0x300, 24 meg of ram (72 pin simms), mono text display, IDE drives (Maxtor 7245a and a Conner504???...conner is master). Although the slip device is in the kernel I'm not using it. # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.36 1995/03/18 08:12:47 rgrimes Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" ident ulantris maxusers 15 options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 #options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console config kernel root on wd0 swap on wd0 dumps on wd0 controller isa0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr #device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 3 #pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device pty 32 pseudo-device speaker #pseudo-device tun 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- College of Arts & Sciences Computing Services John A. Booth, john@gab.unt.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- College of Arts & Sciences Computing Services John A. Booth, john@gab.unt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 14:50:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA20713 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:50:56 -0700 Received: from faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (root@faui45.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.2.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA20689 ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:50:28 -0700 Received: from behaim.faps.uni-erlangen.de by uni-erlangen.de with SMTP; id AA03972 (5.65c-6/7.3w-FAU); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:45:25 +0200 Received: from riese.faps.uni-erlangen.de by faps.uni-erlangen.de with SMTP; id AA23262 (1.38.193.4/7.3s-FAU); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:43:02 +0200 From: Thomas Krebs Message-Id: <9504072143.AA23262@behaim.faps.uni-erlangen.de> Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 23:41:44 MESZ Cc: kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <19663.797288479@freefall.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 07, 95 2:01 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > R6 is a superset of R5. To the extent that Motif relies on R5-isms, > > they're all still there in R6, with a lot fewer bugs. > > The real problem with compiling Motif 1.x under X11R6 is that the > config files clash - you can't simply copy one over the other, you > need to carefully merge them. Perhaps this has been something of what > people are talking about (and I hate it - XView and Interviews do the > same bloody thing). > > Has this been fixed in Motif 2.0? > No! Thomas -- Thomas Krebs Department for Manufacturing Automation and Production Systems FAPS University of Erlangen Egerlandstr. 7-9 91058 Erlangen Tel.: +49 (0)9131/85-8740 Fax: +49 (0)9131/302528 http://www.faps.uni-erlangen.de:1200/persons/krebs.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 15:23:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA21664 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:23:38 -0700 Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA21654 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:23:33 -0700 Received: by wiley.csusb.edu (5.67a/1.34) id AA21670; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:27:40 -0700 From: rmallory@wiley.csusb.edu (Rob Mallory) Message-Id: <199504072227.AA21670@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Arcive Viper QIC150 and tar To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 528 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just plugged a borrowed-from-a-Sun 1/4" tape drive, and have a couple questions: (using a 6150 tape and archive viper ((known rougue??? huh?))) -why does it break tar? (tar czvf /dev/nrst0 /src/X11R6 segfaults..) -pax works, but 84MB of my /usr/local fills most of the tape! -dump works, but dump 0budfs 126 1000 /dev/rst0 700 /dev/sd0a wants to put it on two tapes! dump uf /dev/rst0 works. -can I use any longer tapes reliably? Most important is why tar bombs on this guy... -Rob Mallory [rmallory@csusb.edu] From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 15:45:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22536 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:45:42 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA22529 ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:45:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Andreas Klemm cc: J Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 95 20:51:23 +0200." Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 15:45:41 -0700 Message-ID: <22528.797294741@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Although I have a working setup script in apsfilter, it's perhaps > a bit clumsy compared to Jordans work ... any volunteers ?! ;-) It would please me greatly to see someone catch this and take it the rest of the way towards: 1. apsfilter-4.9D becoming a full port and package. 2. apsfilter having a nice setup screen. It sould like Andreas has already made a start, and it just needs a little polishing to turn into into something dialog based. PLEASE! If everyone could just start including a simple "install.sh" script meant to be run by total novices, we could start REALLY making this whole install thing hang together in a way that's truly EASY to use! Remember that a novice isn't just a newbie, it's somebody who is new to FreeBSD. This includes serious hackers who are simply too busy to learn how to set up their printer "the FreeBSD way" and would much rather just click a button, get it over with and then go on to their REAL work. I'm rather annoyed with people who see this as "dumbing down" FreeBSD when it's really just making it much less of a pain in the ass to set up! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 15:56:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA22649 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:56:09 -0700 Received: from lyria.stanford.edu (lyria.Stanford.EDU [36.146.0.57]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA22642 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:56:08 -0700 Received: (from teren@localhost) by lyria.stanford.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA25163; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:04:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:04:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Lee To: Soeren Schmidt cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: Intel 486"Enhanced Write Back" question In-Reply-To: <199504061849.AA09676@dkuug.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have these new 486 "enhanced writeback" CPU's lying around, but > I cannot use the WB feature. I've read that the CPU determines if > it shall work as a WB or WT chip by reading the level on some pin > on reset. This makes sense as old motherboard designs wouldn't > support this feature then. Now the question is which pin ?? B13 must be high. A10, A12, and B12 are also used to control cache flushes and the like. Looks like your motherboard needs to support it specifically. This is from the 486 databook which Intel will send you for free if you give them a call. Interesting that AMD uses B13 in their DX4 to specify clock triple or clock double mode. I N T E R N E T Terry Lee, Technical Director D E S I G N 745 Stanford Avenue, Palo Alto, California 94306 G R O U P 415 424 0747 voice 415 424-0751 fax http://www.mall.net terryl@cs.stanford.edu http://www.mall.net/terry From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 16:34:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA23372 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:34:04 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA23366 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:34:02 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA04083 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:34:13 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504072334.TAA04083@goof.com> Subject: motif... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:34:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 581 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Would someone with motif on their machine be willing to let me have an account to try and build xmcd-1.4 for FreeBSD and link it statically for the packages collection? If this is too much to ask, would someone mind trying to build it? :-) Thanks in advance... -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 17:12:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA23763 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:12:22 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA23757 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:12:20 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin.Root.COM [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA14974; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:12:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA00285; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:12:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199504080012.RAA00285@corbin.Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: corbin.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "John Booth" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: mb_map full, intermittent net. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 95 16:02:35 CST." <16F65D5088@gab.unt.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 17:12:07 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >1. >I've been getting a mb_map full error on console & messages log. >Why would the table be running out while there is still swap space? >Is there something I can change to add more table space? Should this >ever happen? > > >2. >After being on the net for several hours (6 or more usually) the net >will go down. The two problems are related. Add the following to your kernel config file and let me know if the problem goes away: options "NMBCLUSTERS=1024" -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 17:25:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA23966 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:25:38 -0700 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA23959 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:25:33 -0700 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA09085 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freebsd.org); Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:23:36 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199504080023.AA09085@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:23:35 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <11584.797209253@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 6, 95 04:00:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 657 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I just tried it on a machine running SNAP950322, and when I have it >> displaying on a remote display it crashes with SIGILL just after it >> brings up a blank "Choose a City" window. It seems to work OK when >> displaying on the local display. > >This may be a consequence of the whole "multiuser" license thing (yes, >you can buy a license for $10 extra that will let multiple players >interact with the city - it's kind of insane! :-). > >However, it's shouldn't SIGILL in any case. At least not without >some more formal explanation as to why.. :-) Oops, it is actually dying with SIGSYS, not SIGILL. Sorry for the misleading information. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 17:27:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA23992 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:27:21 -0700 Received: from kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu (root@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu [130.132.128.124]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA23985 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:27:20 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:26:43 -0400 (EDT) From: -Vince- To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Andreas Klemm , J Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs In-Reply-To: <22528.797294741@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > It would please me greatly to see someone catch this and take it > the rest of the way towards: > > 1. apsfilter-4.9D becoming a full port and package. > I'm trying to do that now... > 2. apsfilter having a nice setup screen. It sould like Andreas > has already made a start, and it just needs a little polishing > to turn into into something dialog based. > > > PLEASE! If everyone could just start including a simple "install.sh" > script meant to be run by total novices, we could start REALLY making > this whole install thing hang together in a way that's truly EASY to > use! > That's a thought and wouldn't be too hard to do since all the install.sh has to do is call SETUP and dvips_setup.sh but dvips_setup.sh is kind of hard to setup and needs some polishing up. > Remember that a novice isn't just a newbie, it's somebody who is new > to FreeBSD. This includes serious hackers who are simply too busy to > learn how to set up their printer "the FreeBSD way" and would much > rather just click a button, get it over with and then go on to their > REAL work. I'm rather annoyed with people who see this as "dumbing > down" FreeBSD when it's really just making it much less of a pain in > the ass to set up! :-) > I fully agree with you on that one Jordan! It's just yet a feature to make everyone's lives easier :-) > Jordan > > Cheers, Vince -*vince@kbrown.oldcampus.yale.edu*- UCLA Physics/Electrical Engineering From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 17:33:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24131 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:33:28 -0700 Received: from snoopy.mv.com (snoopy.mv.com [199.125.64.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA24125 ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:33:24 -0700 Received: (from pw@localhost) by snoopy.mv.com (8.6.9/8.6.6) id UAA08099; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:32:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:32:10 -0400 From: "Paul F. Werkowski" Message-Id: <199504080032.UAA08099@snoopy.mv.com> To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com CC: kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: <19663.797288479@freefall.cdrom.com> (jkh@freefall.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jordan" == Jordan K Hubbard writes: >> R6 is a superset of R5. To the extent that Motif relies on >> R5-isms, they're all still there in R6, with a lot fewer bugs. Jordan> The real problem with compiling Motif 1.x under X11R6 is Jordan> that the config files clash - you can't simply copy one Jordan> over the other, you need to carefully merge them. Perhaps Jordan> this has been something of what people are talking about Jordan> (and I hate it - XView and Interviews do the same bloody Jordan> thing). Jordan> Has this been fixed in Motif 2.0? Beats me. I can say that I received Motif 2.0 from ACC today and found that except for the bogus Install script everything seems to work as I would expect. Keep you blood pressure low. Do this patch. Be happy! *** Install.nfg Wed Mar 22 21:03:33 1995 --- Install Fri Apr 7 16:25:40 1995 *************** *** 37,44 **** echo "This script will now install the files into the relevant directories." echo ! if [-d /usr/lib/X11] then mkdir /usr/lib/X11 fi --- 37,45 ---- echo "This script will now install the files into the relevant directories." echo ! if [ -d /usr/lib/X11 ] then + else mkdir /usr/lib/X11 fi *************** *** 53,59 **** then echo "XFree86 is installed in /usr/X386." else ! if [-d /usr/X11R6] then echo "Creating a link from X386 to X11R6" ln -s /usr/X11R6 /usr/X386 --- 54,60 ---- then echo "XFree86 is installed in /usr/X386." else ! if [ -d /usr/X11R6 ] then echo "Creating a link from X386 to X11R6" ln -s /usr/X11R6 /usr/X386 *************** *** 83,88 **** --- 84,90 ---- IMAKEDIR=/usr/X386/lib/X11/config BINDIR=/usr/X386/bin USRLIBX11=/usr/lib/X11 + MANDIR=/usr/X386/man echo echo "integrating SWiM(tm) into XFree86 installation." *************** *** 103,109 **** echo "completed" echo -n "Extracting shared libraries..." ! gzip -dc $TMPDIR/libsa.tar.gz | (cd /lib ; tar -xvf -) >> /tmp/motif_install.log echo "completed" echo -n "Creating sym-links for libraries..." --- 105,111 ---- echo "completed" echo -n "Extracting shared libraries..." ! gzip -dc $TMPDIR/libsa.tar.gz | (cd $LIBDIR ; tar -xvf -) >> /tmp/motif_install.log echo "completed" echo -n "Creating sym-links for libraries..." *************** *** 113,126 **** echo "completed" echo -n "Installing manual pages..." ! (echo " " >/usr/man/SWiM.test.foo)&>/dev/nul ! if [ -e /usr/man/SWiM.test.foo ] then ! rm /usr/man/SWiM.test.foo ! gzip -dc $TMPDIR/man.tar.gz | (cd /usr/man; tar -xvf -) >> /tmp/motif_install.log echo "completed" else ! echo "Failed --- directory /usr/man must be writable." ; echo -n "The Manual pages are NOT being installed - confirm " read enter fi --- 115,128 ---- echo "completed" echo -n "Installing manual pages..." ! (echo " " >$MANDIR/SWiM.test.foo)&>/dev/nul ! if [ -e $MANDIR/SWiM.test.foo ] then ! rm $MANDIR/SWiM.test.foo ! gzip -dc $TMPDIR/man.tar.gz | (cd $MANDIR; tar -xvf -) >> /tmp/motif_install.log echo "completed" else ! echo "Failed --- directory $MANDIR must be writable." ; echo -n "The Manual pages are NOT being installed - confirm " read enter fi From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 17:49:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA24258 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:49:20 -0700 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA24252 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 17:49:18 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id UAA04941 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:49:16 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id UAA08062; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:49:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:49:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: FreeBSD-Hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: gmat: an SGML publishing system (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just saw this on an SGML list, and thought it might be interesting to those I saw were discussing tools to write man pages with, so I'm forwarding this... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:54:12 -0400 From: Norman Walsh To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: gmat: an SGML publishing system Greetings, At a Davenport Group meeting about a year ago, I described the tools that we were developing at O'Reilly for publishing from SGML. At the most recent meeting, I announced the first alpha-test release of that software. This is a semi-public announcement of gmat, an SGML publishing system built around free tools. Gmat provides a method of filtering from SGML to Troff, LaTeX, HTML, or any other formatting language. The filters provided in the distribution filter from the DocBook DTD to Troff, LaTeX, TeXinfo, and HTML (the troff filter is fairly complete---we use it in production work to publish real books---but the other filters are little more than proof-of-concept exercises). In order to use gmat, you must have sgmls (or, preferably, nsgmls from SP 0.3.5 or later) and Perl5. In order to develop your own filters, you will have to be comfortable writing object-oriented programs in Perl5. If you are interested in gmat, you can get a feel for it's functionality by looking in jasper.ora.com:/pub/gmat If you want to install it, you'll need the files in jasper.ora.com:/private/ora-gmat-0.1 The README file in that directory explains what the other files are. This is a limited public announcement of alpha software. After I've confirmed that other people can install and use it (i.e. that I haven't left some critical piece out of the distribution!), I'll make a broader beta-test announcement. In the meantime, please keep it private ;-) I've setup a mailing list for discussions about gmat, to join the list, send the message "subscribe gmat-user" in the body of a mail message to majordomo@jasper.ora.com (Note: the "jasper" part is important, even though most mail to O'Reilly only needs to be addressed to "ora.com".) Questions, comments, suggestions, etc., are most welcome. Thanks for your time. Cheers, norm --- Norman Walsh | "The 'net interprets censorship as damage and Production Tools Specialist | routes around it." -- John Gilmore O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. | 90 Sherman Street | Cambridge, MA 02140 |------------------------------------------------ (617) 354-5800/661-1116 FAX | URL: http://jasper.ora.com/norm From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 19:33:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA25670 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:33:55 -0700 Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA25656 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:33:47 -0700 Received: from pm4-14.tvs.net ([198.53.215.136]) by haven.uniserve.com with SMTP id <216>; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:44:13 -0700 X-Sender: tom@haven.uniserve.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org From: tom@haven.uniserve.com (Tom Samplonius) Subject: Using IP aliases Message-Id: <95Apr7.194413-0700_pdt.216+15@haven.uniserve.com> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:44:01 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've experimented with using the "alias" param to ifconfig in order to assign an additional IP address to an interface. I've found that if you add a new address in a differnet subnet, arp stops working for IP addresses published by a local terminal server. If you ping one of the published addresses, it won't work, and doing a "arp -a" will show the IP address and hardware address of "Incomplete". What's going on? BTW, I'm using 1.1.5.1, but I may be able to try with 950210-SNAP tommorrow. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 19:50:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA26021 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:50:53 -0700 Received: from moondance.np.ac.sg (moondance.np.ac.sg [153.20.24.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA26015 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:50:44 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by moondance.np.ac.sg (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA08254 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:40:04 +0800 Message-Id: <199504080240.KAA08254@moondance.np.ac.sg> Received: from titan.np.ac.sg(153.20.24.72) by moondance.np.ac.sg via smap (V1.3) id sma008249; Sat Apr 8 10:39:40 1995 Subject: Some Feedback on 950322 SNAP To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:45:38 +0800 (SST) From: SysAdmin - Ng Pheng Siong X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 592 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, all. First, congrats. I have a bunch of HP Vectra 486/25's that have given problems to FreeBSD installation since 0.x days. The 950322 SNAP was the first to install faultlessly. Next, two minor nits: 1. 950322 creates less directories in /var than previous versions. E.g., /var/spool is missing, so sendmail and lpd complains upon startup. 2. In /etc/rc, syslogd is started before netstart, so it complains about being "unable to bind". Otherwise, it is great! Thanx. - PS -- Ng Pheng Siong * lsys@np.ac.sg * ngps@np.ac.sg Computer Centre, Ngee Ann Polytechnic, Singapore From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 20:29:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA26642 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:29:02 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA26636 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:29:01 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id UAA10349; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:29:00 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 20:29:00 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199504080329.UAA10349@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: bug in 3c509 driver? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!emory!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!chaos.dac.neu.edu!news3.near.net!ray.com!news.ray.com!news.ed.ray.com!news From: Bill Heiser Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: FreeBSD as a GATEWAY, but NOT a ROUTER Date: 7 Apr 1995 16:28:58 GMT Organization: Equipment Division, Raytheon Company Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3m3p8a$brh@news.ed.ray.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: spc280.ed.ray.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-User: heiser X-Disclaimer: This is the author's opinion and not that of Raytheon Company. X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1b2 (X11; I; Linux 1.2.0 i486) X-URL: news:comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc#3m2r7g$la6@bonnie.tcd-dresden.de Xref: agate comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc:703 I have configured a FreeBSD machine with two 3c509 network cards so that I can use the machine as a gateway between two networks. I have NOT enabled the GATEWAY option in the kernel, because I do NOT want packet forwarding to take place. I simply want the machine to be able to be directly connected to the two networks. What I am finding is that I can talk to the primary interface, but not the secondary. I know both cards work because I have tried reversing their roles - and both work as the primary interface. The setup is as follows: gateway isolated host ----------XXXXXX-----------------XXXXXXXX primary subnet network When I try to talk to (i.e. Ping) the isolated host, ping tells me that the remote host is down (i.e. ping returns -1). Has anyone else configured FreeBSD in this type of arrangement, i.e. has anyone built a firewall or gateway type of arrangement with this setup? I have checked the FAQ and found nothing applicable. It talks about enabling the GATEWAY option in the kernel, but again, I don't want packet forwarding to occur between the networks. Thanks in advance. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 22:17:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA29237 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 22:17:09 -0700 Received: from seldon.apanix.apana.org.au (seldon.apanix.apana.org.au [192.203.213.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA29184 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 22:15:38 -0700 Received: from ldjpc.apana.org.au (ldjpc.apana.org.au [192.203.213.254]) by seldon.apanix.apana.org.au (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA08997; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 14:44:20 +0930 Received: (from jj@localhost) by ldjpc.apana.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA24332; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:58:59 +0930 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:58:58 +0930 (CST) From: Lucas James To: Brian Tao cc: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: Re: Floppy disk and stray IRQ's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 1 Apr 1995, Brian Tao wrote: > I've noticed the following errors show up through syslog whenever > there is floppy disk activity: > Apr 1 01:25:51 aries /kernel: stray irq 7 > Apr 1 01:27:13 aries /kernel: stray irq 7 > Apr 1 01:28:07 aries last message repeated 3 times > Apr 1 01:28:07 aries /kernel: too many stray irq 7's; not logging any more > I don't think I have anything on IRQ 7. The closest thing is the > floppy drive controller, which is on IRQ 6: > Mar 21 18:07:06 aries /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa > Mar 21 18:07:06 aries /kernel: fdc0: (NEC 72065B) [0: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in] > > This is with the current 950322 snapshot on an ASUS PVI-486AP4 > motherboard with only the 3.5" drive connected. I was formatting a > few floppies when the stray IRQ messages popped up. Ummm... the only thing I have on irq 7 is the first parrallel port (which will generate irq7 even if you don't have a driver for it) The other thing possibly on irq 7 would be a sound card. -- Lucas James jj@ldjpc.apana.org.au From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Apr 7 23:13:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA01065 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:13:23 -0700 Received: from dns.netvision.net.il (root@dns.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA01059 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:13:19 -0700 Received: from gena.NetVision.net.il (ts1p11.NetVision.net.il [194.90.1.111]) by dns.netvision.net.il (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA13164; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:12:19 +0300 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 95 09:12:04 PDT From: "Gennady B. Sorokopud" Subject: RE: motif... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, "matthew c. mead" X-Mailer: Chameleon ARM_55, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I will do it! Anyway , if you need an account i'll open it for you today and send you user/pass/host later.. On Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:34:13 -0400 (EDT) matthew c. mead wrote: > Would someone with motif on their machine be willing to let me have an >account to try and build xmcd-1.4 for FreeBSD and link it statically for the >packages collection? If this is too much to ask, would someone mind trying to >build it? :-) Thanks in advance... > > > >-matt > >-- >Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - > -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration >Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other >---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- > ------------------------------------- Name: Gennady B. Sorokopud E-mail: Gennady B. Sorokopud Date: 04/08/95 Time: 09:12:04 This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 01:53:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA06283 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 01:53:39 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA06273 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 01:53:29 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.11/w8hd) id EAA07429; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:53:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:53:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: Rob Mallory cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Arcive Viper QIC150 and tar In-Reply-To: <199504072227.AA21670@wiley.csusb.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Rob Mallory wrote: > I just plugged a borrowed-from-a-Sun 1/4" tape drive, and have a couple > questions: > > (using a 6150 tape and archive viper ((known rougue??? huh?))) I dont' know why it is that, when the machine boots with this drive attached it declares the drive a 'known rougue device' ..maybe they've been known to try to hack into your machine :) > -dump works, but dump 0budfs 126 1000 /dev/rst0 700 /dev/sd0a > wants to put it on two tapes! dump uf /dev/rst0 works. > > -can I use any longer tapes reliably? If you specify a block length of 'way too many' like 50,000 it depends upon the drive's end-of-tape sense to determine when the tape is full. This will result in full cartridge utilization. Of course its a hack but it 'works for me' regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 02:29:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id CAA08159 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 02:29:49 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA08153 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 02:29:44 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with UUCP id LAA13375; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:29:39 +0200 Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.GUN.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA01084 Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:25:35 +0200 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:25:35 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199504080925.LAA01084@knobel.GUN.de> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: apsfilter for FreeBSD / To all who tried to send mail to me, but got a mailer error (andreas@knobel) Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.org X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I was playing around with pine 3.91 and was a bit to "brave" to use it for mailing without testing it's behaviour .... As you might have noticed, the domain was missing... My e-mail address is: andreas@knobel.GUN.de Sorry for any inconvenicances. Andreas /// PS.: Thanks to Joerg, who told me about this on phone :) -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - akl@wup.de - *** apsfilter - irgendwie clever *** ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de:/pub/Linux/local/packs/APSfilter/aps-49...:-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 03:05:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09306 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:05:58 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09288 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:05:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA06899 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:10:23 +0200 Message-Id: <199504062310.BAA06899@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Apr 1995 11:42:48 +0200." <21198.797161368@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 01:10:23 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan wrote: > You can't possibly > sit there and tell me that "housing" ourselves under the umbrella of a > notoriously bloated organization like the ISO or CCITT is going to be > LESS work, now can you? Didnt know they were bloated, go find a non bloated one then :-) > And you completely ignored my other points, which was that the > necessary INFRASTRUCTURE is here! Where the coms links are & where the sup servers & cvs are physically has little relevance to whose law is best used, you'd be best advised offloading the paper work on willing helpers in other countries who want to help, but aren't quite up to you mega hacker/techie standard, or are you afraid of loosing control ?. > I'd go to england if I wanted fish and chips You miss the point, I am Not promoting my own country (though you are yours ;-). We should minimise FreeBSD's involvement with the USA national legal system because it has proven itself disruptive to FreeBSD (crypt etc). If you insist on forcing national law on an international organisation, go use Irish or New Zealand law or something instead., I don't care whose, anyone's law Except disruptive USA law. Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 03:08:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09385 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:08:00 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09357 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:07:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA07490; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:34:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199504051534.RAA07490@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Julian Howard Stacey , "Rodney W. Grimes" , hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: SMP work In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 04 Apr 1995 00:07:53 +0200." <199504032207.PAA07960@estienne.cs.berkeley.edu> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 17:34:57 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Re From: "Justin T. Gibbs" ---- Isn't the format you list different than the string I listed above? PJL is a different thing than either PCL or HP-GL/2. ^[%-12345X is the escape sequence to start a PJL transaction. ----- Whoops, sorry, I'll check my brain in for a service ;-) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 03:09:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09420 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:09:28 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09389 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:08:16 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA00262; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:53:43 +0200 Message-Id: <199504060753.JAA00262@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: bob@obiwan.pmr.com (Bob Willcox), terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), matt@lkg.dec.com, vernick@CS.SunySB.EDU, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: PCI/EISA/ISA performance In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Apr 1995 05:47:22 +0200." <1626.797053642@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 09:53:42 +0200 From: Julian Howard Stacey Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just got a call from Buslogic's VP of Engineering. He's sending me his > full specs on this stuff.. Can you get his permission to make it public ? I'd love to have a copy, (of PCI/EISA/ISA specs) you could put it in src or ports somewhere. One home for it might be alonside the well debated zipcodes ;-) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 03:15:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09522 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:15:54 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09510 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:15:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA05881 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:05:35 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199504081005.MAA05881@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Install scripts To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:05:35 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1173 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't know if the current installation scripts is going to be used for more snapshots/releases. However, would someone mind doing the following addition to /release/scripts/netinst.sh: "ie0" "AT&T StarLan and EN100 family at 0x360 and IRQ 7" \ "is0" "Isolan 4141-0 or Isolink 4110 at 0x280 and IRQ 7" \ + "lnc0" "Ether 32V board (VL ethernet card)" \ "ix0" "Intel EtherExpress" \ "le0" "DEC Etherworks ethernet adapter" \ so that the lnc boards are supported. Also, does someone object to changing the default base address for lnc0 from 0x280 to 0x300 (in the GENERIC kernel) ? The board (at least mine) cannot be configured for an address below 0x300, and the fact that I didn't see complaints about the previous bug suggests me that people are not using it at the moment. Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 03:27:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09646 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:27:25 -0700 Received: from aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw ([140.109.40.248]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09639 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:27:19 -0700 Received: (from taob@localhost) by aries.ibms.sinica.edu.tw (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA01259; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:27:44 +0800 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:27:43 +0800 (CST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L Subject: RE: motif... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 8 Apr 1995, Gennady B. Sorokopud wrote: > > I will do it! > Anyway , if you need an account i'll open it for you > today and send you user/pass/host later.. (hmmmm, if it worked for Matthew...) Would someone with motif on their machine be willing to let me have an account to try and build geomview 1.50 for FreeBSD and link it statically for the packages collection? If this is too much to ask, would someone mind trying to build it? :-) Thanks in advance... (sorry about that Matt, but I think GeomView would be a really nifty thing to have for FreeBSD...) :) -- Brian ("Though this be madness, yet there is method in't") Tao taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw <-- work ........ play --> taob@io.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 03:53:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA09869 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:53:40 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA09857 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 03:53:36 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id MAA15852 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:53:57 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id MAA20749 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:53:21 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.frmug.fr.net (8.6.11/keltia-uucp-1.21) id XAA04528; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:54:43 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199504072154.XAA04528@keltia.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs To: andreas@knobel.gun.de Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 23:54:41 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers' list"@keltia.frmug.fr.net, Reply-To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at Apr 7, 95 08:44:20 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#514 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 869 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Andreas Klemm said: > Joerg made me curious about this thread, so I just start reading it. > Robert, what's not ok with my "GPL" copyright ?! Nothing is wrong with either yourpackage or the GPL copyright. That's just that my current setup is working and I don't want to change it (call it lazyness :-)) > If something is broken with apsfilter I'm glad, if someone gives > me a good bug report or patch and if I have time, I fix it. I don't think that something is broken with apsfilter, I think its a great thing, I just don't use it :-) I'll install it, I promise. When I got the time after my 400 late-messages in -hackers... Like Sören said : so much code to hack, so little time... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #13: Sun Apr 2 21:38:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 04:00:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA12571 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:00:59 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA12559 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:00:54 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA09210; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:00:50 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id NAA28472; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:00:49 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA05362; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:43:01 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504080843.KAA05362@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Arcive Viper QIC150 and tar To: rmallory@wiley.csusb.edu (Rob Mallory) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:43:00 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504072227.AA21670@wiley.csusb.edu> from "Rob Mallory" at Apr 7, 95 03:27:40 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 2926 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Rob Mallory wrote: > > (using a 6150 tape and archive viper ((known rougue??? huh?))) Nothing to worry about. Only means that it gets a special treatment inside the st driver. > -why does it break tar? (tar czvf /dev/nrst0 /src/X11R6 segfaults..) I dunno if a segfault is an appropriate answer :), but at the very least you deserve a data loss. You're attempting to write non-blocked data (the output of gzip) to an unbuffered device. You can do one of the following: tar -cvzf - /foo /bar | dd obs=16k conv=osync of=/dev/nrst0 or tar -cvzf /dev/nrst0 --block-compress /foo /bar Given the media prices, zipping the data is not the best thing to do (IMHO). It costs allot of CPU, risking a non-streaming tape, and in case of a later medium error, chances to reconstruct things that are located after the error are minimal. (Btw., given your example above: GNU tar avoids absolute path names in the archive by default.) > -dump works, but dump 0budfs 126 1000 /dev/rst0 700 /dev/sd0a > wants to put it on two tapes! dump uf /dev/rst0 works. What a strange option combination. ;) You really want 126-KB-records? I'm using: dump [0-9]uBf {150000|250000} /dev/[n]rst0 filessys dump normally counts in kilobyte blocks. Theoretically, the figures above could be somewhat larger, but dump handles the end of tape very ungracefully, so it's better to give a `safe' number instead of having to restart the dump command once it took 45 minutes to fill up a full 250 MB cartridge and finally failed due to an unexpected end of tape. (Due to error recovery strategies, the actual amount of data a QIC cartridge can hold varies from tape to tape.) > -can I use any longer tapes reliably? I've been using the Viper 150 now for more than two years, it's really a solid drive. I'm using 37 MB, 150 MB and 250 MB media (the 37 media are old Data General tapes, i don't think you can purchase them anywhere). A full dump off a 800 MB /usr partition onto 4 tapes costs some time, but once i've got the problem to restore a full /usr partition from a two-level backup (level 0 and level 9), i know why dump/restore is better than tar. :-) (The partition was already full after restoring L0, but it had to replace more than 100 MB when restoring the next level -- restore handles the deleted files automagically!) The Viper 150 has one annoying firmware bug^H^H^Hfeature: in order to append files to the tape (or should i call them ``extents''?), you'll have to ``mt fsf'' until you see the first BLANK CHECK (st0: no data). Once i'm done with back-integrating all the st(1) functionality into mt(1), i'll re-add the ``mt eom'' feature which allows you to skip to the end of recorded medium with a single command. This is handled by the drive in a more intelligent way. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 04:17:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA12901 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:17:48 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA12895 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:17:44 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA03169; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:21:32 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA05703 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:18:21 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA30273 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:47:33 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA02104; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:29:54 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199504080829.KAA02104@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:29:54 +1596657 (MET DST) Cc: smpatel@wam.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504070516.WAA06264@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Apr 6, 95 10:16:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 905 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [del] > Your choice of controllers was poor. I have run 2 drives on a 1742 > doing iozone to both drives at the same time (3+MB/sec each drive) > for a controller throughput of 6MB/sec. > I have run 2 4MB/sec drives on an NCR 825 based controller and got > 7+MB/sec combined throughtput. > > Ultrastore controllers have become famous for there in ability to do > a decent job of getting data to and from the disk. > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com ? As an owner of U24F card I'm interested in what is wrong with 'm? Is grief and misery lurking somewhere ;-) ? _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 04:39:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA13055 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:39:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA13048 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 04:39:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Howard Stacey cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 07 Apr 95 01:10:23 +0200." <199504062310.BAA06899@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 04:39:04 -0700 Message-ID: <13047.797341144@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't think there's any point served by further argument. It's not just a simple question of laws - oh how simple life will be if the only thing I have to worry about when I envision a "successful" FreeBSD Project are the local laws I'm living under. Far more important are the logistical details of convening meetings, having a phone and fax (and someone to deal with them), an address to have things delivered to and possibly disseminated again as quickly as possible. If it were my goal to build some silly paper organization over in Europe, spending Esprit money and churning out endless documents, I'd DO THAT, Julian! But that's not what I'm into at all. Where the machines are sited and the quality/reliability of the Internet connection they can have has a major impact in the day-to-day fortunes of an active project - one whos' developers are active much of the day actually writing code, making phone calls, constantly trying to extend the horizons of the system. Right now, that's easist from here and so it's here we're going to stay. Your arguments about crypto aren't going to be any less valid if the company is sited in Outer Mongolia - they still won't be able to distribute the crypto code from one the the primary distribution points in the world (the U.S.!). Hey, when Germany goes T3, call me.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 05:13:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA13627 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 05:13:47 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA13621 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 05:13:32 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA26434; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:02:50 +1000 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:02:50 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199504081202.WAA26434@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, smpatel@wam.umd.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Ultrastore controllers have become famous for there in ability to do >> a decent job of getting data to and from the disk. >? As an owner of U24F card I'm interested in what is wrong with 'm? Is >grief and misery lurking somewhere ;-) ? They are slow. See my other mail that explains why they are no faster than IDE in important cases. This is despite their busmastering DMA at up to 66MB/sec compared with PIO at 3.3MB/sec. The DMA just reduces the transfer overhead and causes serial overruns. I suspect that there are performance bugs in the driver. What causes the maximum throughput to drop from 5MB/sec to 3MB/sec after /etc/rc is run? I suspect the controller or driver doesn't handle scatter/ gather right. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 05:48:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA13941 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 05:48:14 -0700 Received: from relay-europe.ps.net (relay-europe.ps.net [160.110.96.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA13935 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 05:48:12 -0700 Received: by relay-europe.ps.net (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA09645; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:49:12 +0100 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:49:12 +0100 (BST) From: Aled Morris Reply-To: Aled Morris Subject: Re: best performance hardware To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504062120.OAA05161@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thank you all for your replies - I guess the conclusion is PCI 21040 based cards are best! Now I need to find a supplier in Europe... :-( I've seen ads for SMC PCI Ethernet boards - are they all 21040 by definition? Resellers don't usually know, of course ("comes with ODI and NDIS drivers, what more do you want?") Typical advertisements are "SMC Etherpower PCI" for GBP130 (~US$200). Does that sound like the right one? This makes Rod's offer of Compex cards for $119 look very attractive. Aled -- aledm@relay-europe.ps.net | tel +44 973 207987 Perot Systems Europe Ltd. | fax +44 181 476 2419 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 06:08:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14180 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:08:38 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14160 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:08:35 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA06792 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Sat, 8 Apr 1995 07:42:51 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA20167; 8 Apr 95 07:42:05 CDT (Sat) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA20164; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 07:42:05 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199504081242.HAA20164@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: Arcive Viper QIC150 and tar To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 07:42:04 -0500 (CDT) Cc: rmallory@wiley.csusb.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199504080843.KAA05362@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Apr 8, 95 10:43:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 337 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The Viper 150 has one annoying firmware bug^H^H^Hfeature: in order to > append files to the tape (or should i call them ``extents''?), you'll > have to ``mt fsf'' until you see the first BLANK CHECK (st0: no data). I was under the impression that you couldn't append data to a QIC tape, due to the erase head geometry. Is this wrong? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 06:13:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14270 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:13:29 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14250 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:13:17 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11613; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:12:55 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id PAA29221 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:12:54 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04887 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:06:14 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504081306.PAA04887@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:06:13 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <13047.797341144@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 8, 95 04:39:04 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 280 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Hey, when Germany goes T3, call me.. :-) 1997, when the monopole of the german T*E*L*E*K*O*M expires. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 06:15:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14293 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:15:01 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14277 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:14:26 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11617; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:12:56 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id PAA29224 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:12:55 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA04930 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:11:38 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504081311.PAA04930@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: /etc/printcap for Deskjet 500 and gs To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:11:38 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504072154.XAA04528@keltia.frmug.fr.net> from "Ollivier Robert" at Apr 7, 95 11:54:41 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 366 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > > Like Sören said : so much code to hack, so little time... Don't let him see this. His name is actually Søren. :-) (While mine is Jörg, yes... i guess it's like confusing é and è in french.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 06:19:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14349 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:19:26 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14338 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:18:50 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11788; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:18:36 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id PAA29349 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:18:36 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA05000 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:17:51 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504081317.PAA05000@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Arcive Viper QIC150 and tar To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:17:51 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: <199504081242.HAA20164@bonkers.taronga.com> from "Peter da Silva" at Apr 8, 95 07:42:04 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1501 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Peter da Silva wrote: > > The Viper 150 has one annoying firmware bug^H^H^Hfeature: in order to > > append files to the tape (or should i call them ``extents''?), you'll > > have to ``mt fsf'' until you see the first BLANK CHECK (st0: no data). > > I was under the impression that you couldn't append data to a QIC tape, > due to the erase head geometry. Is this wrong? I dunno how they make it, but it actually works. I'm using it all the time, and it's really time to get the ``mt eom'' feature back. Without it, i'm under the impression that the Viper does always write two file marks between tape files (so you have to ``mt fsf 6'' in order to skip to the 4th file). With the SPACE FORWARD TO END OF RECORDED MEDIUM command, this doesn't happen. (Maybe, it's rather a hidden bug in BSD's st code however.) There have been rumours that this is impossible, back in the days when we've been working with Data General's DG/UX release 4.3. Magically enough, with the appearance of DG/UX 5.4, it started to work. I later looked into their tape driver source in order to find why it worked on DG/UX and failed on FreeBSD, and thanks to their comments, i found about this (mis)feature. (They compensated for it in the driver and have hidden it from the users. But then, they do only actively support three of four different SCSI tapes.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 06:47:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA14633 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:47:35 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA14625 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 06:47:05 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA12343; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:46:29 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id PAA29728 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:46:28 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA00343 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:44:00 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504081344.PAA00343@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: should su retain ${DISPLAY} To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:44:00 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 309 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What do people think about an extension to the su(1) command that retains the ${DISPLAY} variable even across an ``su -''? Seen on IRIX, think it's nice to have it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 07:05:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA15042 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 07:05:52 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA15036 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 07:05:51 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (4.1/WDL-4.2) id AA01543; Sat, 8 Apr 95 07:05:18 PDT Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA01017; Sat, 8 Apr 95 10:06:10 EDT Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:06:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: tar man page Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a thought. My CD of 2.0R did not contain a man page for tar. It appears to be GNU tar. Even the source tree for GNU tar had no man page. Maybe I lost it? Rip Toren rpt@miles.sso.loral.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 08:41:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA17095 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:41:39 -0700 Received: from glueserv1.umd.edu (glueserv1.umd.edu [129.2.70.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA17089 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:41:38 -0700 Received: from espresso.eng.umd.edu (espresso.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.13]) by glueserv1.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id LAA15214; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:41:35 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by espresso.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id LAA01620; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:41:35 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:41:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Richard Toren cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tar man page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 8 Apr 1995, Richard Toren wrote: > Just a thought. My CD of 2.0R did not contain a man page for tar. > It appears to be GNU tar. Even the source tree for GNU tar had no man page. > Maybe I lost it? > > > Rip Toren > rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Wasn't one for 1.1.5.1 either. GNU source package for tar doesn't include one. tar --help gives you what I can find. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 7608 Topton St. | New Carrollton, MD 20784 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 459-2316 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 08:50:01 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA17253 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:50:01 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA17241 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:49:52 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14631; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:49:43 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.9/8.6.9-s1) with UUCP id RAA01622; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:49:42 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA00564; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:34:21 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199504081534.RAA00564@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: tar man page To: rpt@.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:34:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Apr 8, 95 10:06:09 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 424 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Richard Toren wrote: > > Just a thought. My CD of 2.0R did not contain a man page for tar. > It appears to be GNU tar. Even the source tree for GNU tar had no man page. > Maybe I lost it? You've got ``tar --help'', but some brave soul hacked a man page out of it meanwhile. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 08:55:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA17353 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:55:13 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA17347 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:55:10 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id IAA15309; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:54:46 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504081554.IAA15309@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: smpatel@wam.umd.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504080829.KAA02104@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Apr 8, 95 10:29:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1078 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [del] > > > Your choice of controllers was poor. I have run 2 drives on a 1742 > > doing iozone to both drives at the same time (3+MB/sec each drive) > > for a controller throughput of 6MB/sec. > > I have run 2 4MB/sec drives on an NCR 825 based controller and got > > 7+MB/sec combined throughtput. > > > > Ultrastore controllers have become famous for there in ability to do > > a decent job of getting data to and from the disk. > > > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > > ? As an owner of U24F card I'm interested in what is wrong with 'm? Is > grief and misery lurking somewhere ;-) ? No, they just don't perform well. The scsi command over head is high on them. I am not sure if this applies to the 24F, but the 34F is a bus pig (it grabbs the vlb bus for long periods of time, locking out other interrupts :-(). They are reliable boards, just not fast boards. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 09:11:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA17759 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:11:38 -0700 Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.140.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA17753 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:11:37 -0700 Received: (from smpatel@localhost) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA12740; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:11:22 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:11:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Wilko Bulte , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] In-Reply-To: <199504081554.IAA15309@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 8 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > No, they just don't perform well. The scsi command over head is high > on them. I am not sure if this applies to the 24F, but the 34F is a > bus pig (it grabbs the vlb bus for long periods of time, locking out > other interrupts :-(). That is very true, the card is a hog. My ISA busmaster ethernet card spews errors all the time during heavy disk activity. The U24F has an option in the EISA config which can help this (Maximum Bus Hold Time? or something like that)... I think it's set to 500us(ns?) by default, You can lower it to 250us(ns) which helps some. Do you think that there is anything that can be done in the driver that could help this? Also, I know that U24F Bios Version 2.01+ has a lot of fixes in the Scatter/Gather Code on the card. Can someone with a card with 2.01+ Bios give us some benchmarks please? Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 09:15:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA17781 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:15:42 -0700 Received: from mail2.netcom.com (root@mail2.netcom.com [192.100.81.122]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA17774 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:15:37 -0700 From: patl@asimov.lashley.slip.netcom.com Received: from lashley.slip.netcom.com by mail2.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id JAA05863; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:14:23 -0700 Received: by lashley.slip.netcom.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA18244; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:59:53 -0700 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 08:59:53 -0700 Message-Id: <9504081559.AA18244@lashley.slip.netcom.com> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, phk@ref.tfs.com Subject: Re: Removeable media support Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: lashley@netcom.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk |> > Besides MO technology, Iomega's recently announced new drives (i think |> > the call'em ``zipdrives'') come to mind. They provide 100 MB at a |> > reasonable price for the drive (much less than an 128 MB MO drive), |> > and with comparable medium costs. |> |> I'm very interested in this drive, if anybody has any experience ? I don't have any experience with those, but I do have some with Syquest drives. They make 3.5" 270Mb removable cartridge drives in both SCSI and IDE configurations. (And an 'external IDE' that connects to the parallel port.) They also make 200Mb cartridge drives in a 5.25" cartridge. The 3.5" drives run US$370-500, depending on the configuration and where you buy them; and the cartridges run about $70 each. The 270Mb drives will also read and write the older 105Mb cartridges. The cartridges have a 5 year warrantee. Syquest has been making removable cartridge drives for about 12 years now. (I worked at a startup that was one of their beta sites back in the 5Mb days...) -Pat From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 09:27:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA18058 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:27:40 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA18052 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:27:37 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA15477; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:27:14 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504081627.JAA15477@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: large filesystems/multiple disks [RAID] To: smpatel@wam.umd.edu (Sujal Patel) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Sujal Patel" at Apr 8, 95 12:11:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1343 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Sat, 8 Apr 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > No, they just don't perform well. The scsi command over head is high > > on them. I am not sure if this applies to the 24F, but the 34F is a > > bus pig (it grabbs the vlb bus for long periods of time, locking out > > other interrupts :-(). > > That is very true, the card is a hog. My ISA busmaster ethernet card > spews errors all the time during heavy disk activity. The U24F has an > option in the EISA config which can help this (Maximum Bus Hold Time? or > something like that)... I think it's set to 500us(ns?) by default, You can > lower it to 250us(ns) which helps some. > > Do you think that there is anything that can be done in the driver that > could help this? Possible, but with out owning a card, and without any documentation on that card, and given the fact there are much more cost effective solutions to it avaliable now I don't want to spend any time on it. You are welcome to pursu this though :-) > Also, I know that U24F Bios Version 2.01+ has a lot of fixes in the > Scatter/Gather Code on the card. Can someone with a card with 2.01+ Bios > give us some benchmarks please? > > Sujal > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 09:51:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA18499 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:51:23 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA18492 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:51:22 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA28299 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:54:45 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199504081654.MAA28299@ns1.win.net> Subject: Happy Happy snap-0322 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:54:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 886 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A report from my front line is that snap-0322 is working very well compared to snap-0210. I was hesitant to upgrade at first because the -current machine that I run gave me bad vibes for awhile. snap-0322 is running on my primary server and has stayed up for a longer duration than snap-0210. I could count on rebooting or finding out about a reboot every 48 hours under snap-0210. Hasn't happened yet on the latest snap. It seems to be zippier too. Thanks guys. FreeBSD-current has also seemed much more zippy and stable since the middle of last week. I had the chance to benchmark windows/nt as an internet server on the same hardware configuration. NT gives roughly half the throughput of the 3/22 snap (thats with the NTFS not FAT so I may be a cheater). I am talking about a bunch of simultaneous FTP, WEB, and Gopher sessions. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 09:58:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA18576 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:58:14 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA18570 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 09:58:10 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.10) id LAA22733; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:01:52 -0600 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:01:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199504081701.LAA22733@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Julian Howard Stacey Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: The FreeBSD trademark. In-Reply-To: <199504062310.BAA06899@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <21198.797161368@freefall.cdrom.com> <199504062310.BAA06899@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > And you completely ignored my other points, which was that the > > necessary INFRASTRUCTURE is here! > > Where the coms links are & where the sup servers & cvs are physically has > little relevance to whose law is best used, you'd be best advised offloading > the paper work on willing helpers in other countries who want to help, > but aren't quite up to you mega hacker/techie standard, or are you afraid > of loosing control ?. No, because there aren't any willing helpers in other countries who have proven their willingness and commitment to FreeBSD. > We should minimise FreeBSD's involvement with the USA national legal system > because it has proven itself disruptive to FreeBSD (crypt etc). That won't change no matter where FreeBSD's legal infrastructure is. That's a function of source distribution. I hate to be the bearer of obnoxiousness, but 'DROP IT'!!! Your arguements are wasting peoples time and money since it's not going to change because there is NO VALID reason for it to change right now. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 10:25:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA19057 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:25:15 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA19047 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:25:11 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.10) id LAA23271; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:29:27 -0600 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:29:27 -0600 Message-Id: <199504081729.LAA23271@trout.sri.MT.net> To: Richard Toren Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tar man page In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Toren writes: > Just a thought. My CD of 2.0R did not contain a man page for tar. > It appears to be GNU tar. Even the source tree for GNU tar had no man page. > Maybe I lost it? Nope, it was added after 2.0R. It is not part of the original distribution and was contributed by a person outside of the GNU project. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 11:51:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA20468 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:51:03 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA20460 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:51:00 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA16704; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 14:46:54 -0400 From: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199504081846.OAA16704@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Re: Documentation Project To: taob@gate.sinica.edu.tw (Brian Tao) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 14:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Cc: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Apr 7, 95 01:23:00 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 672 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Tao writes: > Now I remember what it was I wanted to bring up over the past > week... :( I'd like to toss in another candidate for HTTP server, > with particular regard to this business of creating a friendly > documentation interface for our users. The server is WN and its home > page is at http://hopf.math.nwu.edu/. [lots of whiz-bang features] I'll take a look at it, but I'm not entirely conviced that a swiss army knife httpd server is that good of a thing. I think CGI scripts work just fine. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ================================================ =================================== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 12:00:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20596 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:00:51 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20589 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:00:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA16861; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:01:43 -0400 From: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199504081901.PAA16861@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Documentation project update To: doc@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 397 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've put together a page a WWW for people interested in working on the documentation project. It is http://www.freebsd.org/~jfieber/doc. Included are links to the various tools that are helpful for composing things using the linuxdoc DTD. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ================================================ =================================== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 12:10:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA20697 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:10:25 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20691 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:10:22 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id VAA18294 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:10:41 +0200 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id VAA26587 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:09:56 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.frmug.fr.net (8.6.11/keltia-uucp-1.21) id VAA18116 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:09:23 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199504081909.VAA18116@keltia.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Perl 5.001+ on -current To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers' list) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:09:21 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#514 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 479 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Perl 5.001+ (four unofficial patches from Larry), -current from today. Dynamic extentions selected. ... lib/odbm.......ok lib/posix......ok lib/sdbm.......ok lib/soundex....ok All tests successful. u=2.38333 s=2.76667 cu=60.7 cs=28.95 files=90 tests=2053 -rwxr-xr-x 1 roberto staff 461096 Apr 8 21:04 perl -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #13: Sun Apr 2 21:38:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 13:41:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA22713 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:41:17 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA22704 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:41:13 -0700 Received: by brasil.moneng.mei.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17083; Sat, 8 Apr 95 15:40:03 CDT From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <9504082040.AA17083@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... To: dawes@physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:40:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504080023.AA09085@physics.su.oz.au> from "David Dawes" at Apr 8, 95 10:23:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 587 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >However, it's shouldn't SIGILL in any case. At least not without > >some more formal explanation as to why.. :-) > > Oops, it is actually dying with SIGSYS, not SIGILL. Sorry for the misleading > information. > > David I've seen it dying at this very point when trying to use shared memory (can you say, "Bad system call"?) :-( ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - The Data Capture Fellow (and UNIX/Network Hacker) 414/362-3617 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 15:11:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA27522 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:11:49 -0700 Received: from magic.winnet.net (magic.winnet.net [204.215.2.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27516 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:11:47 -0700 Received: (from piero@localhost) by magic.winnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA09102; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:12:21 -0400 From: Piero Serini Message-Id: <199504082212.SAA09102@magic.winnet.net> Subject: Re: Perl 5.001+ on -current To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504081909.VAA18116@keltia.frmug.fr.net> from "Ollivier Robert" at Apr 8, 95 09:09:21 pm Reply-To: Piero@winnet.net Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.0-SNAP X-Phone-Number: +1 (305) 535 3090 X-Faqs-Maintained: Elm (comp.mail.elm), Mail Archive Servers (comp.mail.misc) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 556 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello. Quoting from Ollivier Robert: > > Perl 5.001+ (four unofficial patches from Larry), -current from today. > Dynamic extentions selected. ... > All tests successful. I also get "All tests successful", w/ dynamnic extensions and without Larry's patches (on SNAP-0322). Are those patches needed on -current only? After the patch to vfprintf, I could simply do a Configure -d ; make to get Perl. Bye, -- # $Id: .signature,v 1.0 1995/02/05 17:34:46 piero Exp $ Piero Serini From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 16:58:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA29629 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:58:50 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29618 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:58:43 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA19135 ; Sun, 9 Apr 1995 01:59:15 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA29657 ; Sun, 9 Apr 1995 01:58:25 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199504082358.BAA29657@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Perl 5.001+ on -current To: Piero@winnet.net Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 01:58:24 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504082212.SAA09102@magic.winnet.net> from "Piero Serini" at Apr 8, 95 06:12:21 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.1.0-Development ctm#480 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23beta2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 573 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I also get "All tests successful", w/ dynamnic extensions and > without Larry's patches (on SNAP-0322). Are those patches needed > on -current only? After the patch to vfprintf, I could simply > do a Configure -d ; make to get Perl. After all the talk about perl4 & 5 being broken, I just wanted to test it with our vsprintf fix. I don't know if the failure to use dynamic exts some had seen are related to that fix though. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD keltia 2.1.0-Development #7: Thu Mar 23 00:28:31 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 18:07:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA01296 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:07:08 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA01164 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:55:54 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA23325; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:55:53 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504090055.RAA23325@ref.tfs.com> Subject: bad144 testers... To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, announce@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 300 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I could use a couple of people to help me test the bad144 (bad-spot mgt) code which seems to work again. Any takers ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 18:28:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA01694 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:28:46 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA01687 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:28:44 -0700 Received: from fedora.x.org by expo.x.org id AA02962; Sat, 8 Apr 95 21:28:13 -0400 Received: by fedora.x.org id AA00505; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:28:12 -0400 Message-Id: <9504090128.AA00505@fedora.x.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Motif 2.0 In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 07 Apr 1995 14:01:19 PDT. <19663.797288479@freefall.cdrom.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 21:28:12 EDT From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > R6 is a superset of R5. To the extent that Motif relies on R5-isms, > > they're all still there in R6, with a lot fewer bugs. > > The real problem with compiling Motif 1.x under X11R6 is that the > config files clash - you can't simply copy one over the other, you > need to carefully merge them. Perhaps this has been something of what > people are talking about (and I hate it - XView and Interviews do the > same bloody thing). > > Has this been fixed in Motif 2.0? > > Jordan OSF's imake config has always been weak and I've always had to tweek it to get it to work. Whether 2.0 on R5 would have needed tweeking or not I don't know, I haven't used R5 in nearly two years. -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 18:47:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA02144 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:47:04 -0700 Received: from goof.com (root@goof.com [198.82.204.15]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02138 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:47:02 -0700 Received: (from mmead@localhost) by goof.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA20761; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:47:31 -0400 From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199504090147.VAA20761@goof.com> Subject: xmcd 1.4 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Cc: ti@amb.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 737 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I've been trying to get xmcd 1.4 going on my machine - I linked it statically and moved it over to my machine. When I run it, if there's a disc in the drive, it says no disc, even if I eject the disk and reload it with xmcd running, its status does not change. If I move the volume slider, I get this output to stderr: CD audio: SCSI command fault on /dev/rcd0c: Opcode=0x1a Status=0x0 Any ideas? Thanks! -matt -- Matthew C. Mead -> Virginia Tech Center for Transportation Research - -> Multiple Platform System and Network Administration Work Related -> mmead@ctr.vt.edu | mmead@goof.com <- All Other ---- ------- WWW -> http://www.goof.com/~mmead --- ----- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 19:15:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA02748 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 19:15:54 -0700 Received: from physics.su.oz.au (dawes@physics.su.OZ.AU [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA02741 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 19:15:48 -0700 Received: by physics.su.oz.au id AA24521 (5.67b/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@FreeBSD.org); Sun, 9 Apr 1995 12:13:59 +1000 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199504090213.AA24521@physics.su.oz.au> Subject: Re: Since the rumors are flying anyway... To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 12:13:58 +1000 (EST) Cc: dawes@physics.usyd.edu.au, jkh@freefall.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9504082040.AA17083@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Apr 8, 95 03:40:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 431 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >However, it's shouldn't SIGILL in any case. At least not without >> >some more formal explanation as to why.. :-) >> >> Oops, it is actually dying with SIGSYS, not SIGILL. Sorry for the misleading >> information. >> >> David > >I've seen it dying at this very point when trying to use shared memory (can >you say, "Bad system call"?) :-( Ah, that's it. I built a kernel with SHM support, and it all works OK now. David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 19:21:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA02909 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 19:21:10 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA02903 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 19:21:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11248 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:15:07 GMT Message-Id: <199504081815.SAA11248@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Threads & Coffee ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 18:15:05 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, The folks at Sun are using threads with HotJava ... So what is the status of threads for FreeBSD-2.X which versions are available and where ? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 20:38:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA00915 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:38:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA00908 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:38:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Richard Toren cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tar man page In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Apr 95 10:06:09 EDT." Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 20:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: <907.797398734@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just a thought. My CD of 2.0R did not contain a man page for tar. > It appears to be GNU tar. Even the source tree for GNU tar had no man page. > Maybe I lost it? No, it didn't exist until recently. Your mailer is screwed up, BTW - it's not inserting miles into the complete domain spec. I got your From address as: [notice the extra . following the @] which was quite bogus. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 20:57:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01071 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:57:11 -0700 Received: from shell1.best.com (root@shell1.best.com [204.156.128.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA01065 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:57:11 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by shell1.best.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA08792 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:56:22 -0700 Received: (from rcarter@localhost) by geli.clusternet (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA10696 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:55:21 -0700 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:55:21 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-Id: <199504090355.UAA10696@geli.clusternet> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Damn, this might be recognition! Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While wading through the aftermath of my interop deluge, I stumbled across the DEC EtherWORKS and FDDIcontroller price list. Guess what are some of the supported OSs? How about FreeBSD (and Linux). Linux only for ISA. Here are some OSs not supported: UnixWare, WfW 3.11 NDIS 3.0, NetWare OS/2 ODI Client, + some others. Yeah Matt! Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 20:58:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA01088 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:58:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA01081 ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:58:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Mark Hittinger cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Happy Happy Birthday snap-0408 [was: Happy Happy snap-0322] In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Apr 95 12:54:44 EDT." <199504081654.MAA28299@ns1.win.net> Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 20:58:01 -0700 Message-ID: <1080.797399881@freefall.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > snap-0322 is running on my primary server and has stayed up for a longer > duration than snap-0210. I could count on rebooting or finding out about > a reboot every 48 hours under snap-0210. Hasn't happened yet on the latest > snap. Thanks for the progress report! It is encouraging to hear this.. Hopefully, the next snapshot (2.0-950408-SNAP) which I've already rolled once this morning and am rolling again in a few hours (thanks loads, David, for the last-minute updates.. :-) should be even nicer.. Informal title for this snapshot: "Jordan's Birthday snap." :-) Yes, today is my birthday. I am 32. Yes, I feel old. Thanks for asking.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 21:28:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA01570 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:28:51 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01494 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:23:31 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA16864; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:23:15 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199504090423.VAA16864@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Damn, this might be recognition! To: rcarter@geli.com (Russell L. Carter) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504090355.UAA10696@geli.clusternet> from "Russell L. Carter" at Apr 8, 95 08:55:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 663 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > While wading through the aftermath of my interop deluge, > I stumbled across the DEC EtherWORKS and FDDIcontroller price list. > Guess what are some of the supported OSs? How about FreeBSD (and Linux). > Linux only for ISA. Here are some OSs not supported: UnixWare, WfW 3.11 NDIS 3.0, > NetWare OS/2 ODI Client, + some others. > Is that in glossy sales lit., or is it photocopied cheat sheets? > Yeah Matt! Yes, thank you Matt, how the heck did the marketing folks find out about the support??? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 21:53:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA01878 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:53:23 -0700 Received: from quip.eecs.umich.edu (quip.eecs.umich.edu [141.212.99.8]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA01872 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:53:22 -0700 Received: (from dmuntz@localhost) by quip.eecs.umich.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id XAA18295 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 23:02:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 23:02:10 -0400 From: Dan Muntz Message-Id: <199504090302.XAA18295@quip.eecs.umich.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: pcmcia driver Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've done a port of the (redistributable) Mach pcmcia driver, which I've been using with pcmcia modems under 2.0-RELEASE. I think it should also be capable of allowing some pcmcia Ethernet cards to use the 'ed' code (but I don't have one to test). Is there interest in this code, or has something similar already been done? -Dan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 22:11:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA02151 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:11:41 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA02145 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:11:40 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA24289; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:11:37 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199504090511.WAA24289@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: pcmcia driver To: dmuntz@eecs.umich.edu (Dan Muntz) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199504090302.XAA18295@quip.eecs.umich.edu> from "Dan Muntz" at Apr 8, 95 11:02:10 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 599 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've done a port of the (redistributable) Mach pcmcia driver, which I've > been using with pcmcia modems under 2.0-RELEASE. I think it should > also be capable of allowing some pcmcia Ethernet cards to use the 'ed' > code (but I don't have one to test). Is there interest in this code, or > has something similar already been done? Send it to "hardware@freebsd.org" and we will have the right people look at it! -- Poul-Henning Kamp -- TRW Financial Systems, Inc. 'All relevant people are pertinent' && 'All rude people are impertinent' => 'no rude people are relevant' From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 23:12:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA02909 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 19:21:10 -0700 Received: from star-gate.com (hasty.vip.best.com [204.156.141.143]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA02903 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 19:21:04 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA11248 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:15:07 GMT Message-Id: <199504081815.SAA11248@star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: star-gate.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6alpha 2/16/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Threads & Coffee ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 18:15:05 +0000 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, The folks at Sun are using threads with HotJava ... So what is the status of threads for FreeBSD-2.X which versions are available and where ? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Apr 8 23:33:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA06591 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 23:33:39 -0700 Received: from genesis.tiac.net (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA06585 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 23:33:33 -0700 Received: by genesis.tiac.net (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id CAA04131; Sun, 9 Apr 1995 02:33:17 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 02:33:17 -0400 From: steve2 (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199504090633.CAA04131@genesis.tiac.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: FAQ updates Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk To whoever is currently maintaining FreeBSD.FAQ: Could you please update the list of drives supported. It currently lists: UH-14f Series UH-34f Series Should read: UH-14f Series UH-24f Series UH-34f Series Also, the section 6.2 on the floppy tape should now mention that "flags 0x1" is required on the fdc config line. Thanks, - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net