From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 03:01:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA16900 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:01:32 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA16867 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:01:26 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA23555; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:01:23 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA00593; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:01:22 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA16298; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:19:38 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507160719.JAA16298@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: HEYELP! (486DL fails to boot 2.0.5R-CD floppy image) To: john@starfire.mn.org (John Lind) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:19:37 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507142348.SAA00186@starfire.mn.org> from "John Lind" at Jul 14, 95 06:48:22 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 542 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John Lind wrote: > > Whether or not I specify -c, it reads in the image from the floppy, > uncompresses the kernel (... Done), says it is Booting the kernel, then > BAM! Instant reboot. As nearly as my eyes can tell, there is no Copyright > notice or anything before the screen clears and it does the Reset code > stuff. Terry Lambert's hint #1: turn off the caches (just for installation). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 03:01:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA16943 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:01:37 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA16896 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:01:31 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA23563; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:01:28 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA00601 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:01:27 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA16348 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:21:26 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507160721.JAA16348@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: How to enable/disable hardware compression with HP DAT To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:21:26 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507132331.BAA00831@keltia.frmug.fr.net> from "Ollivier Robert" at Jul 14, 95 01:31:29 am Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 450 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > > It seems that John Capo said: > > It will be eaisest to disable compression via the option switches. > > I don't want to disable all the time, just when I know I will write a tape > for someone without a DDS-DC drive. This was supposed to go into mt(1) some day. Julian? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 03:02:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA17073 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:02:06 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA17042 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:02:01 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA23592; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:01:59 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id MAA00624; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:01:57 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA16932; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 10:52:40 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507160852.KAA16932@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SOLVED: rsh/rlogin problems in 2.0.5-RELEASE To: kargl@apl.washington.edu (steve) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 10:52:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9507142311.AA18557@apl.washington.edu> from "steve" at Jul 14, 95 04:09:43 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 497 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As steve wrote: > > This was posted in the newsgroup. I thouhgt a core team member > might want to investigate. > This has also been filed as a PR: conf/620 Default /etc/hosts.equiv causes rsh/rlogin hangups The hack to make ruserok() accept comments starting at column 1 in hosts.equiv and ~/.rhosts is a two-liner; i'm going to commit it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 03:10:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA18293 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:10:51 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA18284 ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:10:49 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507161010.DAA18284@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: looking for info on 3com enet board To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507151706.TAA00153@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jul 15, 95 07:06:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 777 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Being the collector of weird hardware that I am: > > just got a 3Com ethernet board, of 1985 vintage (..). It is a full size > AT board, with a Intel 82586 and a 80186 CPU. Assy# 2012. 2 pieces 2764 > eprom. Apparantly a DMA board, it has jumpers to select the DMA channel. > > Any idea what this is? It belongs to a no-budget youth club who'd like > to use it. > > 3c505 aka Etherlink/+ The if_eg driver is for it. Works terribly bad. For a good project: Look at the linux driver and improve it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 06:45:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA24608 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 06:45:56 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA24602 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 06:45:48 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.3) id JAA22548; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:42:37 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199507161342.JAA22548@hda.com> Subject: libg++ question: minmax.h To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:42:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 520 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Do any g++ hackers know about "minmax.h"? Ptolemy expects a minmax.h in the libg++ distribution. I have an old g++ include directory that has it, but the new distribution is missing it. What is the appropriate fix to a file that expects minmax.h? For now I'll just copy it in to /usr/include/g++ but that is obviously a quick hack around. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 07:27:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA26019 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 07:27:23 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA26013 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 07:27:20 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA14170; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 07:26:43 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA03043; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 07:27:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199507161427.HAA03043@corbin.Root.COM> To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Patches for minor MFS bug + discussion In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 15 Jul 95 19:51:57 MDT." <9507160151.AA08444@cs.weber.edu> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 07:27:53 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >of the ffs_unmount routine in use here. This is because the current >unmount code will probably cause buffer pool corruption on the unmount >of an MFS file system (if it doesn't cause a panic outright; I'm treating >free as opaque for the purposes of the discussion). > >THE mfs_unmount PATCH IS NOT INCLUDED IN THIS PATCH SET!!! > >If one looks in mfs_vfsops.c on line 112 (post-patch), you will see the >MFS specific data being allocated like so: > > mfsp = malloc(sizeof *mfsp, M_MFSNODE, M_WAITOK); > >The equivalent FFS line is in ffs_vfsops.c at line 430: > > ump = malloc(sizeof *ump, M_UFSMNT, M_WAITOK); > >The common unmount code (ffs_vfsops.c, line 572) returns either buffer >to the *UFS* memory pool: > > free(ump, M_UFSMNT); > >Clearly, this is broken. Clearly? No. The mfsp that is allocated above is assigned to vp->v_data (an item attached to the vnode) and has nothing to do with the ump that is assigned to mp->mnt_data (an item in the mount struct). In both FFS and MFS, a "ump" is allocated in ffs_mountfs(). I think you're getting confused about the "NODE" that is malloced and later freed in ufs_reclaim(). It figures out the type depending on the filesystem type; I don't see a bug here. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 08:44:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA28481 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 08:44:54 -0700 Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (peter@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28475 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 08:44:43 -0700 Received: (from peter@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12/DIALix) id XAA16996; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:44:31 +0800 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:44:31 +0800 (WST) From: Peter Wemm To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: utmp ut_host field Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all.. telnetd will store the dotted IP address in the hostname field if the actual name is too long to fit. w detects this and correctly looks up the real name. who does not, neither does finger. tcsh does really strange things.. it tries to gethostbyname("192.9.200.1") and other wierd things. I like the idea of using the IP address if the full name wont fit, but it's a bit annoying to see only some of the system understanding it. Would there be objections to me going through and fixing it? (ie: get rlogind to generate the IP address in the same way that telnetd does, and fix who,finger,tcsh etc so they understand it? Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 10:16:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01284 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 10:16:14 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA01278 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 10:16:13 -0700 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA07881 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:16:11 -0500 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Sun, 16 Jul 95 12:16 CDT Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Sun, 16 Jul 95 12:16 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:16:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1623 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Good afternoon, I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here to probe "b" first. The reason is this: 1) "A" has both internal and external connectors. 2) "B" has only an internal connector. You probably will want to boot from an internal disk drive, or if you do not, you probably want to have ALL disks external. If you boot from an internal disk, there is no reason not to use it on channel "B". If you have an internal and external disk setup, why not boot from "B" and have your externals on the only available connector -- "A"? This reduces adapter contention and improves performance. If the device is a single-channel one, we do not probe "B". If there are no disks on "b", then probing it is harmless. If the boot disk is on "B", it gets sd0() so that root mounts correctly, and your other devices on the external bus are not affected. This also solves impedence problems I've seen on Adaptec boards which come up if you try to use both internal and external cabling on the same disk channel. I recommend AGAINST doing this for that reason if at all possible. Anyone want these changes (move two lines) for the production code base, or does anyone else think this is a good (or bad) idea? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 11:19:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA02953 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:19:21 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA02943 ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:19:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199507161819.LAA02943@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Jul 95 12:16:10 CDT." Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:19:17 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Good afternoon, > >I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here to >probe "b" first. > >The reason is this: > >1) "A" has both internal and external connectors. >2) "B" has only an internal connector. I have made modifications to config and the "hard wired" scsiconf code that will allow you to do this via the kernel config file. Once I have fully tested it, it should go into FreeBSD-current. >-- >Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity >Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland >Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more >Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net >ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 11:40:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03606 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:40:54 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03593 ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:40:44 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA09057; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:40:43 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA01161; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:40:42 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507161840.NAA01161@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change To: gibbs@freefall.cdrom.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:40:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507161819.LAA02943@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Jul 16, 95 11:19:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1783 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Good afternoon, > > > >I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here to > >probe "b" first. > > > >The reason is this: > > > >1) "A" has both internal and external connectors. > >2) "B" has only an internal connector. > > I have made modifications to config and the "hard wired" scsiconf code > that will allow you to do this via the kernel config file. Once I have > fully tested it, it should go into FreeBSD-current. > > -- > Justin T. Gibbs > =========================================== > Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM > FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations > =========================================== Uh, I would suggest changing the code in the driver itself to probe in the opposite sequence. This is what I did here. This is a two-line "move the code" change, and since it requires no actual changes to the operational status of the software, is much safer from a testing perspective. It also requires no changes to the "hardwired" side of things. You just set "B" as the primary channel in the EISA configuration. Actually, an *IDEAL* implementation would look at the state of the primary channel bit in the EISA configuration and decide from that which to probe first. It *IS* in there for boot control. Frankly, I'm surprised that Adaptec didn't designate the internal-only connector as "A" instead of "B". It makes more sense. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 12:13:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA05302 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:13:09 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA05283 ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:13:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199507161913.MAA05283@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Karl Denninger cc: karl@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Jul 95 13:40:42 CDT." <199507161840.NAA01161@Jupiter.mcs.net> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:13:04 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >Good afternoon, >> > >> >I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here t >o >> >probe "b" first. >> > >> >The reason is this: >> > >> >1) "A" has both internal and external connectors. >> >2) "B" has only an internal connector. >> >> I have made modifications to config and the "hard wired" scsiconf code >> that will allow you to do this via the kernel config file. Once I have >> fully tested it, it should go into FreeBSD-current. >> >> -- >> Justin T. Gibbs >> =========================================== >> Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM >> FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations >> =========================================== > >Uh, I would suggest changing the code in the driver itself to probe in the >opposite sequence. This is what I did here. > >This is a two-line "move the code" change, and since it requires no actual >changes to the operational status of the software, is much safer from a >testing perspective. It also requires no changes to the "hardwired" side >of things. I know what the necessary change is (I wrote the driver after all), and I've done similar things for machine that needed to probe in the reverse order. Unfortunately, the hard wired SCSI device code does not handle controllers that have more than one bus correctly since you should be able to hardwired the busses in reverse, so I'd rather use this more general method. >You just set "B" as the primary channel in the EISA configuration. > >Actually, an *IDEAL* implementation would look at the state of the primary >channel bit in the EISA configuration and decide from that which to probe >first. It *IS* in there for boot control. Unfortuantely, I don't know how to get to this information once FreeBSD has booted otherwise the probe order would be determined in this fashion. >Frankly, I'm surprised that Adaptec didn't designate the internal-only >connector as "A" instead of "B". It makes more sense. Not if most people never use the B channel. >-- >Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity >Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland >Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more >Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net >ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 13:01:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA06603 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:01:52 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA06597 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:01:50 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA15572 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:47:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199507161947.MAA15572@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6delta 4/7/95 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: TCL vs... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 12:47:43 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am not interested on started a language war but perharps by following the Tcl vs... thread it can help us understand the current limitations of tcl, guile, pearl, etc... or their strengths... http://www.utdallas.edu/~glv/Tcl/war/ Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 13:32:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA07103 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:32:52 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA07097 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:32:50 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14100; Sun, 16 Jul 95 14:25:32 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507162025.AA14100@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: FS root mount handling discrepancy To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 14:25:31 MDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507160633.QAA17212@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 16, 95 04:33:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ ... ] > mfs_mountroot() and nfs_mountroot() call inittodr() too. Volatile and ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > readonly file systems won't have a useful timestamp to call it with. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [ ... ] > I think it currently must be called even when the timestamp is 0. It > doesn't get called except by mountroot routines. Should a volatile or a readonly file system call it with (time_t)0 or not call it at all? I thought "not call it at all". If it's supposed to call it with 0, then cd9600_mountroot is currently broken (I'll do the fix either way; don't worry about fixing it now)? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 13:39:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA07379 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:39:59 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA07370 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:39:56 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA14116; Sun, 16 Jul 95 14:32:39 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507162032.AA14116@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: SOLVED: rsh/rlogin problems in 2.0.5-RELEASE To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 14:32:39 MDT Cc: kargl@apl.washington.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507160852.KAA16932@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jul 16, 95 10:52:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The hack to make ruserok() accept comments starting at column 1 in > hosts.equiv and ~/.rhosts is a two-liner; i'm going to commit it. It is slightly more than two lines: make sure you update the documentation (man pages) at the same time). Luckily, we have no man page for rhosts (apparently, at least on my new installation here), so the work is reduced... 8-P. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 14:11:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA08419 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:11:39 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA08413 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:11:35 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA15064; Sun, 16 Jul 95 15:04:31 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507162104.AA15064@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change To: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger, MCSNet) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 15:04:30 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" at Jul 16, 95 12:16:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Good afternoon, > > I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here to > probe "b" first. > > The reason is this: > > 1) "A" has both internal and external connectors. > 2) "B" has only an internal connector. > > You probably will want to boot from an internal disk drive, or if you do > not, you probably want to have ALL disks external. > > If you boot from an internal disk, there is no reason not to use it on > channel "B". > > If you have an internal and external disk setup, why not boot from "B" and > have your externals on the only available connector -- "A"? This reduces > adapter contention and improves performance. [ ... ] > Anyone want these changes (move two lines) for the production code base, or > does anyone else think this is a good (or bad) idea? A bad idea. EXAMPLE 1: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wish to reinstall a machine. I attach the CDROM drive I share between the machines in my lab (maybe even a Sun CDROM drive?). I attempt to boot the CDROM (an external boot device). A bootable CDROM should be a possibility. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- EXAMPLE 2: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I want to be able to boot from an external disk if present, and if not, boot from an internal disk instead. The purpose in doing this is OS cross developement for porting. It works like this: I detach a SCSI device from one machine and attach it to another. I write the boot and root file system information to the device. I detach the disk and return it to the first machine. I attempt to boot the first machine from the new image. If boot fails, I remove the disk from the first machine and boot the installed OS on the internal drive and compare it with my code on the second machine. I make corrections, and repeat the process. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The external device should be the first device checked, just as the floppy should be the first checked. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 14:13:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA08482 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:13:38 -0700 Received: from grail.cba.csuohio.edu (grail.cba.csuohio.edu [137.148.20.101]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA08474 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:13:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199507162113.OAA08474@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by grail.cba.csuohio.edu (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA05263; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:15:07 -0400 From: steven ratliff Subject: SCSI drivers To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:15:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 8861 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The following may be irrelevant as I haven't looked at nor understand FreeBSD's current SCSI system but I found the following News article interesting. Particularly the section on error handling and recovery. Someone who does understand FreeBSD's SCSI might want to look at this driver for Ideas on implementing a similar scheme if we don't already do this. This might help with the rash of SCSI device hang reports that have been posted recently. Steve >From news.csuohio.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ns.mcs.kent.edu!kira.cc.uakron.edu!malgudi.oar.net!cedarnet.cedarville.edu!calvin!newsserv.grfn.org!gumby!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!sunic!sunic.sunet.se!news.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Sat Jul 15 12:31:09 1995 Path: news.csuohio.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ns.mcs.kent.edu!kira.cc.uakron.edu!malgudi.oar.net!cedarnet.cedarville.edu!calvin!newsserv.grfn.org!gumby!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!sunic!sunic.sunet.se!news.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail From: "Leonard N. Zubkoff" Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Subject: New BusLogic SCSI Driver released for Beta Test Followup-To: comp.os.linux.development.system Date: 12 Jul 1995 17:43:20 +0300 Organization: Dandelion Digital Lines: 139 Sender: wirzeniu@cc.helsinki.fi Approved: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov (Lars Wirzenius) Message-ID: <3u0n28$848@kruuna.helsinki.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: kruuna.helsinki.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keywords: Linux, device driver, BusLogic, SCSI, beta test I am pleased to announce the release for public beta test of a completely rewritten Linux driver for BusLogic SCSI Host Adapters. Over the last several months it had become increasingly apparent to me that the existing driver was suffering due to its heritage of being based on the Adaptec 1542 driver, and that the major improvements necessary would best be made by starting fresh. I recently had a conversation with the Senior Product Marketing Manager at BusLogic regarding the needs of free software developers, and he reaffirmed BusLogic's committment to providing the technical information and support we need to take full advantage of their products. BusLogic has been very accomodating in providing technical documentation, as well as access to their engineering staff for technical questions and advice. In addition, they have loaned me ISA cards for configuration testing, and even allowed me use of their technical support lab to test EISA configurations, since I don't have an EISA system. Their interest and support is greatly appreciated. DRIVER FEATURES o Configuration Reporting and Testing During system initialization, this driver reports extensively on the host adapter hardware configuration, including the synchronous transfer parameters negotiated with each target device. In addition, this driver tests the hardware interrupt configuration to verify that interrupts are actually delivered to the interrupt handler. This should catch a high percentage of PCI motherboard configuration errors early, because when the host adapter is probed successfully, most of the remaining problems appear to be related to interrupts. o Performance Features BusLogic SCSI host adapters directly implement SCSI-2 tagged queuing, and so support has been included in this driver to utilize tagged queuing with any target devices that report the tagged queuing capability. SCSI-2 tagged queuing allows for multiple outstanding commands to be issued to each target device, and can improve I/O performance substantially. In addition, BusLogic's Strict Round Robin Mode is used to optimize host adapter performance, and scatter/gather I/O can support as many segments as can be effectively utilized by the I/O subsystem. o Error Recovery This driver implements extensive error recovery procedures. When the higher level parts of the SCSI subsystem request that a command be reset, a bus device reset is first sent to the target device. If two bus device resets have been attempted and no command to the device has completed successfully, then a host adapter hard reset and SCSI bus reset is performed. SCSI bus resets caused by other devices and detected by the host adapter are also handled by issuing a hard reset to the host adapter and full reinitialization. This strategy should improve overall system robustness by preventing individual errant devices from causing the system as a whole to lockup or crash, and thereby allowing a clean shutdown and restart after the offending component is removed. o Shared Interrupts Support On systems that support shared interrupts, any number of BusLogic host adapters may share the same interrupt request channel. This driver scans all registered BusLogic host adapters whenever an interrupt is handled on any interrupt channel assigned to a BusLogic host adapter. o Symmetric Multiprocessing Support While the Linux Kernel is currently limited to uniprocessors, there are efforts being made to support symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) systems. With that in mind, this driver implementation uses separate primitives for disabling processor interrupts versus mediating exclusive access to the host adapter hardware and driver data structures, so that when a symmetric multiprocessing Linux Kernel becomes available, this driver should only need relatively minor changes. o Wide SCSI Support All BusLogic host adapters share a common programming interface, except for the inevitable improvements and extensions as new models are released, so support for Wide SCSI data transfer has automatically been available in existing drivers. This driver adds explicit support for up to 16 Device IDs and 64 Logical Units, to fully exploit the capabilities of the newest BusLogic Wide SCSI host adapters. BETA TESTING I have tested this driver extensively on my own systems running Linux 1.2.8 through 1.2.11 and my production system has been depending on it for over seven weeks now. Nevertheless, each system and combination of peripherals is different and there is no guarantee that unforeseen problems won't arise. In addition, the higher performance nature of this driver, and especially its use of SCSI-2 tagged queuing, may expose underlying weaknesses in systems or peripherals that were not apparent with the older driver. This is BETA TEST software, so take appropriate precautions, including having current system backups and a backup kernel available. The driver has been heavily tested with the 956C and 946C PCI host adapters and with the 445C and 445S VESA host adapters, including up to four PCI host adapters or two VESA host adapters in the same system and operating concurrently. In addition, more limited testing has been performed with the 545C, 540CF, 545S, and 542B ISA host adapters, and with the 747C, 757C, 747S, 757S, and 742A EISA host adapters. While this driver itself should work with 1.3.x with no modification, minor changes to the supporting patches would be necessary for 1.3.x. However, because the 1.3.x kernels are rather unstable, I've chosen to complete my development and testing under the stable 1.2.x kernels. The support for 16 Device IDs will be available when the 1.3.x version is released. The shared interrupts support is untested, as none of my systems provide for this. Please let me know if you test this successfully. FTP LOCATION I ask that people FTP this software directly from ftp.dandelion.com, and not place it on any of the archive FTP sites yet. In due course, I will make it available on the archive sites, and send it to Linus for inclusion in the 1.3.x development kernels. By retrieving the driver directly from my FTP site, and giving a valid email address for anonymous access, I will be able to send a message to all beta testers in the event an urgent problem is discovered. Note that my FTP site does not allow directory listing, so just login as anonymous, set binary transfers, and then issue the command "get BusLogic-1.0-beta.tar.gz". BUG REPORTS Please send bug reports via electronic mail to me at "lnz@dandelion.com". If possible, include with the bug report the complete configuration messages reported by the driver at startup, along with any subsequent system messages relevant to the SCSI subsystem, and a description of your system configuration. Please also be prepared to verify whether the aberrant behavior also occurs with the older BusLogic driver. -- Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov PLEASE remember Keywords: and a short description of the software. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 14:20:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA08769 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:20:21 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA08756 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:20:16 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA11043 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:16:45 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA15212; 16 Jul 95 16:00:20 CDT (Sun) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA15209; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:00:19 -0500 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:00:19 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507162100.QAA15209@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCL vs... Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: <199507161947.MAA15572@rah.star-gate.com> Organization: Taronga Park BBS Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199507161947.MAA15572@rah.star-gate.com> you write: >I am not interested on started a language war but perharps by following >the Tcl vs... thread it can help us understand the current limitations >of tcl, guile, pearl, etc... or their strengths... [That's perl, no "a"] Yeh, I remember that discussion. I haven't seen anything to change my opinions, but more to the point I don't see what relevence it has to FreeBSD. What solutions does it provide that aren't already addressed by existing languages? What's its killer app? The ports tree already contains four Schemes (most of which are, and this is a Good Thing, smaller than Guile), Perl, Tcl, and so on and so forth. Yet another language... this time one covered by the Gnu Public Virus... is, well, just yet another language. If you want to excite *me*, come up with an embeddable Smalltalk. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 14:25:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA09010 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:25:44 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09004 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:25:41 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01642; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:25:39 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA01860; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:25:38 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507162125.QAA01860@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:25:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507162104.AA15064@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 16, 95 03:04:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2725 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here to > > probe "b" first. > > [ ... ] > > > Anyone want these changes (move two lines) for the production code base, or > > does anyone else think this is a good (or bad) idea? > > A bad idea. > > EXAMPLE 1: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I wish to reinstall a machine. > > I attach the CDROM drive I share between the machines in my lab > (maybe even a Sun CDROM drive?). > > I attempt to boot the CDROM (an external boot device). > > A bootable CDROM should be a possibility. Why do you believe that this is not possible? You ALREADY have to change the EISA configuration to do this. Therefore, you can certainly do this if you attach to the "A" channel, tell the system to boot from "A" in the EISA configuration, and that's that. Nothing prevents you from running the disk(s) on "A"; if there is nothing on "B" it does no damage. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > EXAMPLE 2: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I want to be able to boot from an external disk if present, and if not, > boot from an internal disk instead. > > The purpose in doing this is OS cross developement for porting. > > It works like this: > > I detach a SCSI device from one machine and attach it to another. > > I write the boot and root file system information to the device. > > I detach the disk and return it to the first machine. > > I attempt to boot the first machine from the new image. > > If boot fails, I remove the disk from the first machine and boot the > installed OS on the internal drive and compare it with my code on the > second machine. > > I make corrections, and repeat the process. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The external device should be the first device checked, just as the > floppy should be the first checked. The second is a special case, and is easy to fix with an option for those who need it. 90% of the users aren't in this special case, and they are probably going to default to an internal drive. Since Adaptec has *known* problems with impedence matching when both the internal and external connectors are in use, its either/or on this one. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 14:49:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA10048 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:49:08 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10038 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 14:49:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA04535; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:48:51 -0600 Message-Id: <199507162148.PAA04535@rover.village.org> To: Peter Dufault Subject: Re: libg++ question: minmax.h Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 16 Jul 1995 09:42:36 EDT Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:48:50 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : Do any g++ hackers know about "minmax.h"? Ptolemy expects a minmax.h : in the libg++ distribution. I have an old g++ include directory that : has it, but the new distribution is missing it. What is the appropriate : fix to a file that expects minmax.h? For now I'll just copy it in : to /usr/include/g++ but that is obviously a quick hack around. minmax.h is the old way (or maybe just a g++ invention) to do what limits.h does now. At least in the code that I've ported. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 15:17:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11411 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:17:25 -0700 Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11390 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:17:21 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA01745; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:16:57 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199507162216.RAA01745@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: FS root mount handling discrepancy To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:16:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507162025.AA14100@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 16, 95 02:25:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2434 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > mfs_mountroot() and nfs_mountroot() call inittodr() too. Volatile and > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > readonly file systems won't have a useful timestamp to call it with. > > [ ... ] > > > I think it currently must be called even when the timestamp is 0. It > > doesn't get called except by mountroot routines. > > Should a volatile or a readonly file system call it with (time_t)0 or > not call it at all? I thought "not call it at all". > > If it's supposed to call it with 0, then cd9600_mountroot is currently > broken (I'll do the fix either way; don't worry about fixing it now)? Each *_mountroot routine should call inittodr, since that routine is used to establish the system clock from the real time clock at boot time. The argument to inittodr is the value the clock is set to if the RTC cannot be read for some reason. For a volatile file system like MFS, a value of zero should be used. For a read-only file system, zero could be used, but if some kind of reasonable time stamp can be obtained from the file system, you could use that so the the system clock doesn't time warp all the way back to Jan 1 1970 if the RTC is dead, just back to the date found on the CD. I don't know anything about ISO 9660 file systems, but probably using the timestamp of the root directory on the CD would be OK. Either way, inittodr will complain that the RTC was corrupt to warn the user that the clock is screwed up. You also mentioned adding a time_t field to the mount structure. Do we really need that? The only file system that would have any use for it would be the root file system, and the value would only be used a total of one time. It would allow the inittodr calls to move out of the *_mountroot routines and into main(), but is it really worth it? Something else interesting I noticed was the the APM routines call inittodr to reset the system clock to the RTC after a resume from a suspend, however they call it with a value of zero. No big deal, but on the off chance that the RTC somehow died during that interval, the time would warp back to 1/1/70. Probably calling it with something like: inittodr(time.tv_sec) would be better, since the clock would just start again from its last setting before the suspend. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@legarto.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 15:18:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA11490 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:18:26 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA11481 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:18:23 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.3) id SAA04276; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:15:05 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199507162215.SAA04276@hda.com> Subject: And another g++ question To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199507162148.PAA04535@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Jul 16, 95 03:48:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1587 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Warner Losh writes: > > minmax.h is the old way (or maybe just a g++ invention) to do what > limits.h does now. At least in the code that I've ported. Thanks Warner. I'll try limits.h and see if that works instead of minmax. I have one other issue - I get these when I try to link the application: > filebuf.cc:51: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment > stdstrbufs.o: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from data segment > stdstrbufs.o: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from data segment > stdstrbufs.o: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from data segment > stdstrbufs.o: Undefined symbol `__vt$stdiobuf' referenced from data segment > stdstrbufs.o: Undefined symbol `__vt$stdiobuf' referenced from data segment > stdstrbufs.o: Undefined symbol `__vt$stdiobuf' referenced from data segment > strstream.cc:53: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment > strstream.cc:59: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment > strstream.cc:70: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment The curious thing is that there is a "__vt$10builtinbuf" defined in libg++.a but nothing without a 10. Also the undefined is coming from libg++ .o's, yet the undefineds don't show up in libg++.a namelist, so it must be some sort of g++ constructed sort of thing. Does anyone recognize this problem? Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 16:49:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA13326 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:49:04 -0700 Received: from lobo.yahoo.com (filo@[205.216.162.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA13316 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:49:02 -0700 From: filo@yahoo.com Received: (from filo@localhost) by lobo.yahoo.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA05963; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:43:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:43:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199507162343.QAA05963@lobo.yahoo.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Ignoring SIGCHLD without having to wait()? Reply-To: filo@yahoo.com Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From what I can tell FreeBSD like other BSD systems requires you to wait() on children to clean up after them on their exit, otherwise they become zombies until the parent dies. In the case where you don't care about the exit status of the child, this becomes an unecessary burden. SysV solves this by allowing the parent to ignore these via SIG_IGN. Am I missing something, or is there no way to do this in FreeBSD? We currently have an app where a significant portion of the CPU time is spent servicing these interrupts. The double fork solution is not an option. If there is no simple solution, does anyone have advice before I start looking at hacking the kernel to provide this functionality. Has anyone looked into this before? Any info on this would be appreciated. Thanks.. David Filo From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 17:12:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA13824 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:12:43 -0700 Received: from mpp.minn.net (mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA13818 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:12:40 -0700 Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA02076; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:12:17 -0500 From: Mike Pritchard Message-Id: <199507170012.TAA02076@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: FS root mount handling discrepancy To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:12:16 -0500 (CDT) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507162325.AA17210@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 16, 95 05:25:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1273 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Subsequent changes to the mount interface are also planned: > > o Move the file system specific mount knowledge (with the > exception of the ":" being used for remote file system > identification) OUT of the mount command and into per > file system code (still hidden under the mount command). > This finally resolves the ability to drop in file systems > at the administrator level as modules without requiring > a kernel rebuild (only a module load). To totally get off the subject of real time clocks... There is currently a problem with mount in that: mount /xyzzy /xyzzy (where /xyzzy = a directory) Panics because the mount syscall locks the directory, then calls the file system dependent mount, which does a name lookup on /xyzzy again, and namei dies trying to lock the vnode again. I didn't see a clean way to fix this, but it sounds like with the above changes, the file system specific mount would have control over both arguments. That would let it lookup the special device first, validate it, then lookup the mount point directory and lock it, thus avoiding the problem. I believe that the PR# is kern/434. Something to keep in mind. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@legarto.minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 17:34:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA14366 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:34:34 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA14360 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:34:31 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA17210; Sun, 16 Jul 95 17:25:22 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507162325.AA17210@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: FS root mount handling discrepancy To: mpp@legarto.minn.net (Mike Pritchard) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 17:25:21 MDT Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507162216.RAA01745@mpp.minn.net> from "Mike Pritchard" at Jul 16, 95 05:16:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Each *_mountroot routine should call inittodr, since that routine > is used to establish the system clock from the real time clock > at boot time. The argument to inittodr is the value the clock is set > to if the RTC cannot be read for some reason. > > For a volatile file system like MFS, a value of zero should be used. > For a read-only file system, zero could be used, but if some kind > of reasonable time stamp can be obtained from the file system, > you could use that so the the system clock doesn't time warp all the > way back to Jan 1 1970 if the RTC is dead, just back to the date found > on the CD. I don't know anything about ISO 9660 file systems, > but probably using the timestamp of the root directory on the > CD would be OK. Either way, inittodr will complain that > the RTC was corrupt to warn the user that the clock is screwed up. > > You also mentioned adding a time_t field to the mount structure. > Do we really need that? The only file system that would have any > use for it would be the root file system, and the value would only > be used a total of one time. It would allow the inittodr calls to > move out of the *_mountroot routines and into main(), but is it > really worth it? I believe the answer is "yes", and here's why: The intent of the time_t addition to the mount structure is to provide a mechanism to communicate a file system specific time stamp to the inittdr() call in a system independent way. This is desirable because currently, the per FS XXX_vfsops structure contains support code for a "generic" mount and a "root" mount. The generic mount is the exported interface is is not adequate for use for a root mount. The result of this is that there is kernel specific promiscuous knowledge of the file system types external routines in the root mount call code; specifically, there are file system specific root mount attempts for all supported file systems with root mount capability based on the boot device specified to the kernel. I believe this to be inherently bogus. Specifically, it is possible to provide a file system type such that standard mounts or root mounts and not both are a possibility. This is a violation of the abstraction architecture specified by John Heidemann in the design: basically, pounding the design to fit into BSD. My intent is to modify the file system specific mount routine to be callable either from the vfs_calls.c mount routine OR from a system specific mount routine. Architecturally, this boils down to the following sequence of changes: o Add an arguments structure to the ffs_mountfs, similar to the existing one in the cd9660 file system. The purpose of this argument structure is to allow the passing of arguments indicating a root or non-root mount is to take place. o Move the ffs_mountfs into the place currently held by the ffs_mount routine. o Move the file system independent mount housekeeping into the mount system call or the vfs_mountroot (new procedure). o Move the file system dependent mount housekeeping (like the storage of the device and "last mounted on" names) below the interface layer where they belong. This is the initial mount code cleanup necessary to abstract the file system depence on the BSD file system mount heirarchy paradigm that is not intrinsic to the file system code itself. This is also the second rationale (that I promised) for an MFS specific mfs_mountfs: to handle the MFS specific code in the mfs_mountroot and mfs_mount in the mfs_mountfs routine instead. Once this is complete, the interface changes will allow a file system to refuse root mount based on the fact that the file system itself is not root capable rather than based on the arbitrary existance of code hacks to the system initialization routines. One consequence of this is the ability to boot using an embedded file system type (statically inked into the kernel), load another file system type dynamically, and subsequently mount root with the loaded file system. The utility of this mechanism as a means of booting to an existing file system type not the default for BSD (for instance, the OSF/1 UFS implementation on DEC Alpha hardware) should be obvious. A second consequence of these changes is the ability of the file system writer to easily and obviously support the concept of root file system mounts as well as direct file system mounts. The intent here is to support, among outher thing, EXT2FS, UMSDOSFS, and LFS root file system types. This means a mount operation returns a locked pointer to an allocated mount structure in the final version of the interface; the mount houskeeping on vnode coverage, etc. is moved out of the file system itself: it loses the need for knowledge of BSD internals. This means that developers are free to work on issues requiring changes to those internals. One specific example is that of nomadic computing and ambiguous network connectivity. Subsequent changes to the mount interface are also planned: o Move the file system specific mount knowledge (with the exception of the ":" being used for remote file system identification) OUT of the mount command and into per file system code (still hidden under the mount command). This finally resolves the ability to drop in file systems at the administrator level as modules without requiring a kernel rebuild (only a module load). o Change the per file system instace structure to include a named identifier for the file system. o Change the semantics of the mount command to use the named identifier (passing it down) instead of the manifest constants it currently uses. This resolves the biggest block to adding in unpredected file system types without a need to change system header file (the enumerated types in sys/mount.h) or rebuild the system kernel. Some support code is probably necessary: o A mechanism for iterating the supported file system types currently in the kenel. Later, it is probably desirable to seperate this information out, either with direct file system support of an fstyp-style interface (and seperate the probe and the rest of the file system code into two loadable modules), or by using a user space directory iteration an a manifest constant path for file system utilities that *must* exist to iterate types. Since this bears on the ability to build user space utilties that globally manage all file system types without explicit knowledge of what file system types exist on the machine (like a smit-like mount utility), the support code can wait until someone wants to tackle the utility. Finally, taken together, these provide several services relevant to plug-n-play, most notably the ability to, when new media is detected, iterate the file system types in the kernel and "ask" if each FS "wants" the media. For immediate use, we have removable media, such as floppies, zip disks, "formatted" PCMCIA cards, and CDROMs -- all of which could benefit from auto-recognition of file system from the media. > Something else interesting I noticed was the the APM routines call > inittodr to reset the system clock to the RTC after a resume > from a suspend, however they call it with a value of zero. > No big deal, but on the off chance that the RTC somehow died > during that interval, the time would warp back to 1/1/70. > Probably calling it with something like: > inittodr(time.tv_sec) > would be better, since the clock would just start again from > its last setting before the suspend. I'd have to say that that APM code was probably broken. One of the fundamental assumptions that needs to be made when spanning a suspend operation is that there will be a record of the period of the suspend. I'd have to say that calling it with 0 was incorrect. Potentially, calling it at all (in the expectation that the RTC is incorrect) is probably a bad idea, and an alternate interface should be presented. One suggestion may be to adopt the PReP recommendations in this area: 4.4.8 Calendar and Timer Services These run-time abstractions provide services for the various clocks and calendars within the system. They must account for the non-volatile Real-Time Clock in the system, the 601 [sic] processor RTC, the Time Base on other PowerPC [sic] processors, the decrementer which provides n interrupt after counting down to zero, and the ability to change clock frequency supplied on some PowerPC [sic] processors. ... 4.4.10 Power Management If macro power management is supported by the operating system, then the abstraction layer must provide a means to change the device and subsystem power states. It must also provide a means to read and write system information. In this last, I thinkthe current processor RTC value qualifies as "system information". If someone wants to seriously hack on that code, I suggest: _Plug and Play for PowerPC Reference Platform_ Gary Tsao An IBM white paper Contact IBM @ 1-512-838-5552 and _Microsoft Hardware Abstraction Layer_ Beta Version March 1993 Microsoft, Inc. You might be able to pry this last out of MS at: The Windows NT Porting Center IBM, Inc. Contact @ 1-800-803-0110 or 1-206-889-9011 or winntppc@vnet.ibm.com Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 17:40:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA14617 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:40:08 -0700 Received: from fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.171]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA14611 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 17:40:07 -0700 Received: by fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA02536; Sun, 16 Jul 95 18:40:05 -0600 Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov (1.38.193.4/SMI-4.1 (1.38.193.4)) id AA23943; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:43:17 -0600 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:43:17 -0600 From: kelly@fsl.noaa.gov (Sean Kelly) Message-Id: <9507170043.AA23943@emu.fsl.noaa.gov> To: filo@yahoo.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507162343.QAA05963@lobo.yahoo.com> (filo@yahoo.com) Subject: Re: Ignoring SIGCHLD without having to wait()? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Unless you're using SIGCHLD for ``something else,'' what's wrong with installing a one-line signal hander that wait()s for the process? PS: Thanks for the Yahoo database. -- Sean Kelly NOAA Forecast Systems Lab, Boulder Colorado USA I read that when the archaeologists dug down into the ancient cemetery, they found fragments of *human bones*! What kind of barbarians were these people, anyway? -- Jack Handey From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 18:42:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA18894 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:42:48 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA18887 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 18:42:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA04466; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 07:44:11 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507170144.HAA04466@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: ALPHA of DigiBoard driver To: PowerTrip@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 07:44:10 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <950714224821_33067820@aol.com> from "PowerTrip@aol.com" at Jul 14, 95 10:48:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 309 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I will snag it, and try it. so it is complete now? Yes. > I have a Digi PC/4e. The driver wil run it? It _must_ but nobody had tested it with PC/Xe. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 19:07:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA19948 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:07:17 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA19942 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:07:16 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA14622; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:06:38 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA03570; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:07:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199507170207.TAA03570@corbin.Root.COM> To: Peter Wemm cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: utmp ut_host field In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Jul 95 23:44:31 +0800." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:07:50 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hi all.. > >telnetd will store the dotted IP address in the hostname field if the >actual name is too long to fit. > >w detects this and correctly looks up the real name. > >who does not, neither does finger. > >tcsh does really strange things.. it tries to >gethostbyname("192.9.200.1") and other wierd things. > >I like the idea of using the IP address if the full name wont fit, but >it's a bit annoying to see only some of the system understanding it. > >Would there be objections to me going through and fixing it? (ie: get >rlogind to generate the IP address in the same way that telnetd does, and >fix who,finger,tcsh etc so they understand it? Yes, I object. I would rather rip out the support in 'w'. This "feature" was ill conceived and ends up making 'w' appear to hang all the time when a nameserver is unreachable. This happens all the time on freefall and it is more than a bit annoying. We've gotten bug reports about it too. I would be willing to compromise, however. If you would like to make the lookup an option rather than the default, I would have no problem with this. 'w' has a -n option to disable the feature, but I hate the feature being the default. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 19:14:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA20360 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:14:57 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA20353 for freebsd-hackers; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:14:56 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199507170214.TAA20353@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Perl include files *.ph To: freebsd-hackers Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 809 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Ok, it's now time for my harp on the present location of the perl SYSTEM / PLATFORM dependent include files. Right now they are located in /usr/share which I thought was for independent files. Am I wrong in thinking this?? If not, again I say we need to move them. They are just processed versions of our *.h files from /usr/include and therefore depend on the system/platform. Our files will not work for a SUN and vice/versa. Don't ask where, but not there. Gary Ideas: /usr/lib/perl | /usr/include/perl | /usr/perl -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 20:34:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA24409 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 20:34:30 -0700 Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (peter@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA24393 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 20:34:20 -0700 Received: (from peter@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12/DIALix) id LAA07320; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:33:05 +0800 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:33:05 +0800 (WST) From: Peter Wemm To: David Greenman cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: utmp ut_host field In-Reply-To: <199507170207.TAA03570@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Jul 1995, David Greenman wrote: > >Hi all.. > > > >telnetd will store the dotted IP address in the hostname field if the > >actual name is too long to fit. > > > >w detects this and correctly looks up the real name. > > > >who does not, neither does finger. > > > >tcsh does really strange things.. it tries to > >gethostbyname("192.9.200.1") and other wierd things. > > > >I like the idea of using the IP address if the full name wont fit, but > >it's a bit annoying to see only some of the system understanding it. > > > >Would there be objections to me going through and fixing it? (ie: get > >rlogind to generate the IP address in the same way that telnetd does, and > >fix who,finger,tcsh etc so they understand it? > > Yes, I object. I would rather rip out the support in 'w'. This "feature" > was ill conceived and ends up making 'w' appear to hang all the time when a > nameserver is unreachable. This happens all the time on freefall and it is > more than a bit annoying. We've gotten bug reports about it too. I can imagine..... > I would be willing to compromise, however. If you would like to make the > lookup an option rather than the default, I would have no problem with this. > 'w' has a -n option to disable the feature, but I hate the feature being the > default. I have another alternative.. Would you be willing to allow specifing a really small resolver timeout for these commands? say 2 seconds? This would add only a couple of lines to the code, and would be a pretty reasonable alternative to the existing 75 second timeout. Something like this: #include if (!(_res.options & RES_INIT)) res_init(); _res.retrans = 2; _res.retry = 0; As for making it not the default, I'd be quite happy to do this myself if you'd let me use an environment variable to enable it for the utilities that care.. :-) (you know, like "BLOCKSIZE", which most of the disk utilities respect when reporting disk units (df, du, etc)). > -DG Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 21:19:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA26916 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:19:07 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA26910 ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:19:03 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA00339; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:19:35 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507170419.VAA00339@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Perl include files *.ph To: gclarkii@freefall.cdrom.com (Gary Clark II) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507170214.TAA20353@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Gary Clark II" at Jul 16, 95 07:14:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1939 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > > Ok, it's now time for my harp on the present location of the perl > SYSTEM / PLATFORM dependent include files. Right now they are located > in /usr/share which I thought was for independent files. Am I wrong > in thinking this?? If not, again I say we need to move them. > They are just processed versions of our *.h files from /usr/include > and therefore depend on the system/platform. Our files will not > work for a SUN and vice/versa. Don't ask where, but not there. They won't work for your sun running Sun/Os, but they should work for your sun running FreeBSD :-). /usr/share is shareable accross machines (architectures) not accross OS's. Actually the issue of /usr/include vs /usr/share/include has come up (and pretty much died since it is a lot of digging to figure out) in the file system standards stuff going on between FreeBSD/BSDI/Linux. A very large part of /usr/include (and thus by default) /usr/share/perl is infact machine/architecture independent and most likely belongs in /usr/share. Infact about the only machine dependant part of BSD's /usr/include is /usr/include/machine, this one area when relocated could be done as a symbolic link back into the machine dependent /usr some place, with /usr/include being a symbolic link to /usr/share/include for the transitition period. This is all a dicey thing right now and I would just as soon leave this alone until it can be done once and done right. > > Gary > > Ideas: /usr/lib/perl | /usr/include/perl | /usr/perl /usr/lib/perl is wrong as these are not ``archive libraries'' /usr/include/perl is wrong as these are not ``standard C include files'' /usr/perl is wrong as these are 95% machine independent files, perhaps /usr/perl for the MD parts of this, but not all of it. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 21:33:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA27788 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:33:09 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA27780 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:33:07 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA14719; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:32:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA03601; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:33:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199507170433.VAA03601@corbin.Root.COM> To: Peter Wemm cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: utmp ut_host field In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 95 11:33:05 +0800." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:33:41 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I would be willing to compromise, however. If you would like to make the >> lookup an option rather than the default, I would have no problem with this. >> 'w' has a -n option to disable the feature, but I hate the feature being the >> default. > >I have another alternative.. > >Would you be willing to allow specifing a really small resolver timeout for >these commands? say 2 seconds? > >This would add only a couple of lines to the code, and would be a pretty >reasonable alternative to the existing 75 second timeout. That would definately be an improvement... >Something like this: > #include > if (!(_res.options & RES_INIT)) > res_init(); > _res.retrans = 2; > _res.retry = 0; > >As for making it not the default, I'd be quite happy to do this myself if >you'd let me use an environment variable to enable it for the utilities >that care.. :-) (you know, like "BLOCKSIZE", which most of the disk >utilities respect when reporting disk units (df, du, etc)). What would you like to call it? PETERSGOODSTUFF? :-) If you can find one that makes some logical sense... What do other people think? -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 21:36:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA28031 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:36:33 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA28016 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:36:32 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18334; Sun, 16 Jul 95 22:29:21 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507170429.AA18334@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: ESDI install now succeeded To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 22:29:20 MDT Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507111735.TAA00152@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jul 11, 95 07:35:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Using a variant of the setup of Steve Piette I managed to get 205Snap installed > on a Micropolis 1558 and a WD1007 controller: > > W8 out (Steve had 'm in) > W14 in (disable translation) > > I used WDFMT.EXE from www.wdc.com to format the drive with 15 heads, 1224 cyls > and 35 sect/track (Steve used 36). > > bad144, disklabel and friends were now happily doing their job. > > It looks like we need a section 'ESDI installations' in the FreeBSD handbook. > I'm willing to write that as soon as I understand what is going on exactly. > > How are people using non-WD1007 adapters doing? E.g. using an Adaptec 2322 ? We got the WD1007 install running at Weber before I left, too. One of the guys there is supposed to take the controller out and scan it for a GIF for me. 8-). I also had to have 8 in, 14 out and run wdfmt.exe (which is in the self extracting archive wdfmtp.exe on that site, BTW). Same geometry that you had. I had a problem with the number of cylinders causing the BIOS to complain on the boot, so I configured drive type 48 for 1024 cylinders to shut it up. The install detected this, and robbed me of a little over 20% of my disk space. Probably needed to go into the menu that lets you change the geometry and tell it "1224" (the guy I worked on it with promised to redo the install trying that and let me know). Anyway, it's a bitch, but it can be done. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 21:52:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA29182 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:52:48 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA29175 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:52:47 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA18374; Sun, 16 Jul 95 22:45:39 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507170445.AA18374@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Ignoring SIGCHLD without having to wait()? To: filo@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 95 22:45:38 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507162343.QAA05963@lobo.yahoo.com> from "filo@yahoo.com" at Jul 16, 95 04:43:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >From what I can tell FreeBSD like other BSD systems requires you to > wait() on children to clean up after them on their exit, otherwise > they become zombies until the parent dies. In the case where you > don't care about the exit status of the child, this becomes an > unecessary burden. SysV solves this by allowing the parent to ignore > these via SIG_IGN. > > Am I missing something, or is there no way to do this in FreeBSD? We > currently have an app where a significant portion of the CPU time is > spent servicing these interrupts. The double fork solution is not an > option. > > If there is no simple solution, does anyone have advice before I start > looking at hacking the kernel to provide this functionality. Has > anyone looked into this before? Any info on this would be > appreciated. The default behaviour is to send a signal and to reap the child. I believe that the "ignore" is supposed to work: that is, it will cause the exit status to be automatically reaped. That is, _exit will check the mask on the parent process and react accordingly. One potential for error is the case of the signal ignore being set *after* the child is created. I believe that this would be an error in BSD were it the case, but at least it's one that you can easily work around. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 21:54:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id VAA29350 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:54:36 -0700 Received: from emory.mathcs.emory.edu (emory.mathcs.emory.edu [128.140.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA29325 ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:54:31 -0700 Received: from bagend.UUCP by emory.mathcs.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_mathcs.4.0.14) via UUCP id AA29977 ; Mon, 17 Jul 95 00:54:30 -0400 Received: by bagend.atl.ga.us (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0sXhSj-0004pHC; Mon, 17 Jul 95 00:07 EDT Message-Id: From: jan@bagend.atl.ga.us (Jan Isley) Subject: Re: Dc_Users Group Meeting To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Doc) In-Reply-To: <5476.805148822@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 7, 95 01:27:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5915 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > - Improving documentation ... deletia ... This would be > > directed at first time users and the corperate market. > Yes! I was just discussing this as one of my primary goals for 2.1, > in fact. If one reads the newsgroups for any length of time, in fact, > it becomes quickly and distressingly apparent that people are still > very much confused by some of our "highly assumptive" documentation. > We're still not taking it well into account that most users are LAZY > SCHMUCKS WHO WOULDN'T READ A MANUAL IF YOU WHAPPED THEM UPSIDE THE > HEAD WITH IT! I MEAN, I MEAN, *SLAP*. Uh. Thanks, I needed that. > Sorry to rave, and what I meant to say was that given that most users > aren't going to wade through lots of doc, the goal shouldn't be to > generate *more* doc so much as to generate *better* doc. that' a lot to quote, but what to leave out ? Yes, yes, yes, and it is not all the average schmucks' fault. The closest, decent computer book store to me by 20 miles is Microcenter. There are at *least* 50 very thick, 19.95 or less, System V books on their shelf, if not more, lots more. They have about a dozen Linux books on the shelf. And they have 3 BSD books. Two are way old, and they all cost over $50. Make that extra 20 mile drive and you can find 5 or 6 more books on BSD, none of them complete enough to not need to buy the whole set, there goes $200 bucks, give or take $50. So the average DOS dude has not bought these books, has he? Heck, he can buy a Linux book for $25 AND IT COMES WITH A CD OR TWO! Maybe where you live they have better, cheaper books, but not here they don't. I have sysv books out the wazoo, but I thought it was time to learn BSD. I needed to get anything on this system except Linux so I turned to FreeBSD. Sounds good, doesn't it? FreeBSD. None of the books that I have collected over that last 10 years are any help at all starting BSD from scratch. There ARE some extremely helpful folk associated with FreeBSD. You have to wonder though... I have said RTFM plenty of times myself, but often when someone gets RTFM around here, TFM they mean is way down the source tree some where, not the man page. This is not just a bitch session folks. I am trying to help. I am unfortunately, one of those BSD ignorant schmucks. If FreeBSD is to "gain market share" in a market dominated by sysv-isms, the documents need to improve or the newbies will stay away in droves. > By "better" I mean documentation that presents more of the crucial > stuff up-front, takes care to explain its terms early so that people > don't have to read 4 pages in to see that by "FAQ" we meant > /usr/share/FAQ/blah/blah and (and this is most important) actually > tries to be self-consistent with documentation conventions and > explaining things in the proper order. Our docs are riddled with > bogons like referring to the FAQ as "The FreeBSD FAQ" in one This is very important. You guys have no idea how important. You have all been working on this for years and things that are obvious and unimportant to you may be the things that sends newbies running back to Linux, even the ones that tried to RTFM first. And it sure needs to be better than most of what I have seen in the Linux how-to world. No wonder newbies don't read those how-to's! Like, many of them are LINUX RULZ D00D, who cares if they are correct. > When a user sees something in our own docs > that's plainly wrong for the release they're now using, it hardly > inspires confidence that we didn't even care enough about it to even > update it! :-( I wonder how many sales Diamond has lost over bogons in Linux X docs. How many they will still be losing a year from now ... > > - The creation and support of turnkey systems for users. This would > > be directed at a certian use such as routing, firewall, and Internet > > connectivity. > > You must be a mind-reader - I was just talking to some folks about > just such a system the other day.. I had envisioned some Tk based > interface that let you configure your machine as anything from a > router to a firewall to a corporate mail server, just by clicking the > relevant buttons and typing the right information when it popped up in > your face and asked for it. Such a system wouldn't take more than 6 ... > machine. If we could offer a more server oriented "Internet in a box" > equivalent to such people, it would be a terrific boon. ... > Lest we forget, Internet servers are also hardly the only turnkey apps > around. Long before we came on the scene, SCO was selling into > warehouse inventory control systems and point-of-sales apps (next time > you go to the movie theater, you may be amused to know that the screen > the sales clerk is typing on goes to a SCO box in the back) and all of > these are ripe and fertile ground for FreeBSD, if only someone would > jump in and write the business side. This same market helped NCR stay in business for years. And not for the last time am I going to say this. The biggest market out there is not webb servers, it is not video rental stores, it is the average schmuck at home, just like me, no networking, just a modem. I hear you laughing... don't. FreeBSD may have networking that walks on water and gives change. Most Joe Schmucks will never know anything about networking. The Joe Schmucks of the world are the ones who buy most of the computers. I *am* very impressed with FreeBSD. I have not managed to get it up and running good enough to shut down Linux, but I *am* very impressed with it! This was posted to hackers. Your average mail user agent does not have a followup-to header. :) I guess this belongs to doc or dev/null. -- Jan Isley Heroes have the shelf life of cottage cheese, jan@bagend.atl.ga.us and public memory is shorter than Dudley Moore. -- Rheta Grimsley Johnson From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 23:31:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA04229 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:31:00 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA04198 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:30:28 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA21504; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:26:02 +1000 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:26:02 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507170626.QAA21504@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: filo@yahoo.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: Ignoring SIGCHLD without having to wait()? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The default behaviour is to send a signal and to reap the child. >I believe that the "ignore" is supposed to work: that is, it will cause >the exit status to be automatically reaped. That is, _exit will check >the mask on the parent process and react accordingly. I can't see any support for it in FreeBSD. POSIX says that the behaviour for ignoring SIGCHLD is unspecified. You should use sigaction and the POSIX SA_NOCLDSTOP to avoid being bothered by stopped children. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jul 16 23:52:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA05487 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:52:11 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA05477 for ; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:52:06 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00518; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:51:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199507170651.XAA00518@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCL vs... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:00:19 CDT." <199507162100.QAA15209@bonkers.taronga.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:51:51 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Peter da Silva said: > What solutions does it provide that aren't already addressed by existing > languages? What's its killer app? Better yet do we have any developers which can write killer apps :) You are right we have plenty of languages so where are the apps ? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 00:15:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA07358 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:15:29 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA07335 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:15:15 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA22674; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:09:23 +1000 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:09:23 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507170709.RAA22674@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: esser@zpr.uni-koeln.de, yenbut@cs.washington.edu Subject: Re: One cause of 2.05R instability found Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >A few days ago, my system (the kernel has the if statement in ncr.c commented >out) crashed twice after it has been running fine for almost a week: It seems to be just flaky hardware. >Fatal trap 12: privileged instruction fault while in kernel mode >instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf0128e83 >code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 >current process = 13345 (nntpd) >interrupt mask = >kernel type 1 trap, code = 0 >stopped at _lookup + 0x11b: lcall *%edi I had an interesting crash like this. I was running one of my systems in non-turbo mode to serial test overload conditions. It crashed on a privileged instruction. Examining nearby memory using ddb showed that there was a single bit error in the instruction. I restored the bit and continued successfully. This system has the "slow refresh" option set to as slow as possible and I guess that using this violates the memory specs more when the system is in non-turbo mode. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 00:35:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09277 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:35:02 -0700 Received: from mercury.unt.edu (mercury.unt.edu [129.120.1.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA09246 ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:34:57 -0700 Received: from gab.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AB12801 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 14 Jul 1995 08:28:52 -0500 Received: from GAB/SpoolDir by gab.unt.edu (Mercury 1.13); Fri, 14 Jul 95 8:28:52 CST6CDT Received: from SpoolDir by GAB (Mercury 1.13); Fri, 14 Jul 95 8:28:43 CST6CDT From: "John Booth" Organization: University of North Texas To: hackers@freebsd.org, bugs@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 08:28:40 CST6CDT Subject: Adaptec 2940 w/hp dat drives, freeze machine Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <895FA01E2D@gab.unt.edu> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk 3 times a charm? This 3rd time I've sent to hackers@freebsd.org and I haven't seen it appear on the list....we still receive messages we send correct? Guess will see if it appears on bug list. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- X-cs: From: Self To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Adaptec 2940 w/hp dat drives, freeze machine Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:40:34 I didn't see this message get to the list. Just started using tape devices w/this machine. After doing a mt status, then mt erase, then mt erase here's what got logged. Jul 11 14:59:38 www /kernel: ahc0: target 1, lun 0 (st0) timed out 14:59:38 www /kernel: st0(ahc0:1:0): command: 19,1,0,0,0,0-[0 bytes] Jul 11 14:59:38 www /kernel: Jul 11 15:02:33 www /kernel: ep0: Status: 2002 Jul 11 15:06:41 www /kernel: ep0: Status: 2002 Jul 11 15:07:01 www /kernel: ahc0: target 1, lun 0 (st0) timed out 15:07:01 www /kernel: st0(ahc0:1:0): command: 0,0,0,0,0,0-[0 bytes] Jul 11 15:07:01 www /kernel: Jul 11 15:08:00 www /kernel: ahc0: target 5, lun 0 (sd0) timed out Jul 11 15:08:00 www /kernel: sd0(ahc0:5:0): command: 28,0,0,24,3a,f0,0,0,10,0-[8192 bytes] Jul 11 15:08:00 www /kernel: ------------------------------ www /kernel: 000: 6e 6f 62 6f 64 79 00 2a 00 00 55 6e 70 72 69 76 www /kernel: 016: 69 6c 65 67 65 64 20 75 73 65 72 00 2f 6e 6f 6e www /kernel: 032: 65 78 69 73 74 65 6e 74 00 2f 6e 6f 6e 65 78 69 www /kernel: 048: 73 74 65 6e 74 00 2f 72 6f 6f 74 00 2f 75 73 72 Jul 11 15:08:00 www /kernel: ------------------------------ Jul 11 15:08:00 www /kernel: Jul 11 15:08:41 www /kernel: ahc0: target 1, lun 0 (st0) timed out 15:08:41 www /kernel: st0(ahc0:1:0): command: 0,0,0,0,0,0-[0 bytes] Jul 11 15:08:41 www /kernel: machine machine just dies. No panic, just stop responding. Will ping, but no telnet. Can switch virtual terms ok....went into kernel debugger and it was doing scsi operations. Mt was donig wmesg was scsicmd-- also there were time outs for the devices. I put it in kernel debugger, did about 5-20 nexts and it got Page-Fault 12 supervisor read. I have done this about 3 times in a row, is easy to replicate. Here's dmesg FreeBSD 2.0.5-RELEASE #0: Tue Jul 11 12:46:23 1995 john@www.cas.unt.edu:/usr/src/sys/compile/www CPU: 90-MHz Pentium 735\\90 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x524 Stepping=4 Features=0x1bf real memory = 33161216 (8096 pages) avail memory = 31182848 (7613 pages) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <4 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ahc0 not found wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 406MB (832608 sectors), 826 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc1 not found at 0x170 fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in 3 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 0x200 0x220 ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa ep0: aui/bnc/utp[*BNC*] address 00:20:af:38:54:e6 irq 10 ep1 at 0x200-0x20f irq 3 on isa ep1: aui/bnc/utp[*BNC*] address 00:20:af:9e:19:7e irq 3 ep2 at 0x220-0x22f irq 5 on isa ep2: aui/bnc/utp[*BNC*] address 00:20:af:9e:19:98 irq 5 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Probing for devices on the pci0 bus: configuration mode 2 allows 16 devices. chip0 rev 17 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 67 on pci0:2 ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:6 ahc0: reading board settings ahc0: 294x Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, aic7870, 16 SCBs ahc0: Downloading Sequencer Program...Done ahc0: Probing channel A ahc0: target 1 synchronous at 5.0MB/s, offset = 0x8 (ahc0:1:0): "HP HP35480A 1109" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st0(ahc0:1:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, drive empty ahc0: target 2 synchronous at 5.0MB/s, offset = 0x8 (ahc0:2:0): "HP HP35480A 1009" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st1(ahc0:2:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, drive empty ahc0: target 3 synchronous at 5.0MB/s, offset = 0x8 (ahc0:3:0): "HP HP35480A 1009" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st2(ahc0:3:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, drive empty ahc0: target 4 synchronous at 5.0MB/s, offset = 0x8 (ahc0:4:0): "HP HP35480A 9 09" type 1 removable SCSI 2 st3(ahc0:4:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x13, drive empty ahc0: target 5 synchronous at 5.0MB/s, offset = 0x8 ahc0: target 5 Tagged Queuing Device (ahc0:5:0): "HP C2490A-300 4140" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:5:0): Direct-Access 2033MB (4165272 512 byte sectors) sd0(ahc0:5:0): with 2630 cyls, 18 heads, and an average 87 sectors/track vga0 rev 0 int a irq 255 on pci0:12 pci0: uses 4096 bytes of memory from ffbff000 upto ffbfffff. pci0: uses 256 bytes of I/O space from fc00 upto fcff. WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. sd0: raw partition size != slice size sd0: start 0, end 4165271, size 4165272 sd0c: start 0, end 4294967295, size 0 sd0: raw partition size != slice size sd0: start 0, end 4165271, size 4165272 sd0c: start 0, end 4294967295, size 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- College of Arts & Sciences Computing Services John A. Booth, john@gab.unt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 00:37:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA09580 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:37:56 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA09545 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:37:37 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA23493; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:33:39 +1000 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:33:39 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507170733.RAA23493@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: mpp@legarto.minn.net, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: FS root mount handling discrepancy Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Each *_mountroot routine should call inittodr, since that routine >is used to establish the system clock from the real time clock >at boot time. The argument to inittodr is the value the clock is set >to if the RTC cannot be read for some reason. I think inittodr() should be called much earlier. It doesn't need a root file system to work on systems with a suitable clock. >Something else interesting I noticed was the the APM routines call >inittodr to reset the system clock to the RTC after a resume >from a suspend, however they call it with a value of zero. >No big deal, but on the off chance that the RTC somehow died >during that interval, the time would warp back to 1/1/70. >Probably calling it with something like: > inittodr(time.tv_sec) >would be better, since the clock would just start again from >its last setting before the suspend. It should probably do this if its arg is 0 or -1. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 00:59:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA10919 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:59:15 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10910 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:59:14 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA12564 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:58:50 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27136; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:27 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA07962; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:26 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA04835; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:59:13 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507170659.IAA04835@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: And another g++ question To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:59:13 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199507162215.SAA04276@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jul 16, 95 06:15:04 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1071 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Peter Dufault wrote: > > > strstream.cc:53: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment > > strstream.cc:59: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment > > strstream.cc:70: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment > > The curious thing is that there is a "__vt$10builtinbuf" defined > in libg++.a but nothing without a 10. Also the undefined is coming > from libg++ .o's, yet the undefineds don't show up in libg++.a > namelist, so it must be some sort of g++ constructed sort of thing. > > Does anyone recognize this problem? Are you sure your C++ compiler and library and header files match? I've typically seen this when installing a new version of g++ on our Data General machines, but it's been a while ago. The __vt$'s are the virtual method tables. There are now two ways (if i recall it right), and one of them is to work without those tables. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 00:59:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA11023 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:59:48 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA11017 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:59:46 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA12577 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:59:21 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27181; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:45 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA07997 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:45 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA05185 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:33:28 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507170733.JAA05185@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: utmp ut_host field To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:33:28 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199507170433.VAA03601@corbin.Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jul 16, 95 09:33:41 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1328 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As David Greenman wrote: > > >Something like this: > > #include > > if (!(_res.options & RES_INIT)) > > res_init(); > > _res.retrans = 2; > > _res.retry = 0; > > > >As for making it not the default, I'd be quite happy to do this myself if > >you'd let me use an environment variable to enable it for the utilities > >that care.. :-) (you know, like "BLOCKSIZE", which most of the disk > >utilities respect when reporting disk units (df, du, etc)). > > What would you like to call it? PETERSGOODSTUFF? :-) If you can find one > that makes some logical sense... > What do other people think? Implement the 2-second timeout. This is 2.2-Development, it should be open for experiments. Install the command (as an exception to our normal policy to run a RELEASE) on freefall. If it's still spamming, disable the default and hack it via the environment, or better yet, implement it as shell aliases in the default /etc/csh.cshrc and /etc/profiles, so the casual users won't complain about the change. OTOH, David, you could use an alias as well. :-) Changing the default behaviour of a long-standing application just to the opposite is never a good idea. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 01:00:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA11112 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:00:20 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA11106 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:00:18 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA12580 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 00:59:57 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27132; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:24 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA07957 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:23 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA04795 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:55:15 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507170655.IAA04795@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SOLVED: rsh/rlogin problems in 2.0.5-RELEASE To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:55:15 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <9507162032.AA14116@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 16, 95 02:32:39 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 755 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > The hack to make ruserok() accept comments starting at column 1 in > > hosts.equiv and ~/.rhosts is a two-liner; i'm going to commit it. > > It is slightly more than two lines: make sure you update the > documentation (man pages) at the same time). > > Luckily, we have no man page for rhosts (apparently, at least on > my new installation here), so the work is reduced... 8-P. Believe it or not: i've attempted to find any documentation, but even the explanation in rcmd(3) or rshd(8) was to wishy-washy to fit a comment about allowing comments :) into it, so i didn't do it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 01:00:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA11162 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:00:33 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA11154 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:00:28 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA27171; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:41 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA07971; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:53:31 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA05076; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:21:45 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507170721.JAA05076@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Ignoring SIGCHLD without having to wait()? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:21:44 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: filo@yahoo.com Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <9507170445.AA18374@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 16, 95 10:45:38 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1627 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > I believe that the "ignore" is supposed to work: that is, it will cause > the exit status to be automatically reaped. That is, _exit will check > the mask on the parent process and react accordingly. Huh? j@uriah 88% cat foo.c #include #include #include #include int main(void) { pid_t pid; int i; signal(SIGCHLD, SIG_IGN); for(i = 0; i < 20; i++) { if((pid = fork()) == 0) { return 0; } } sleep(100); return 0; } j@uriah 89% cc foo.c j@uriah 90% ./a.out & [2] 5031 j@uriah 91% ps PID TT STAT TIME COMMAND ... 5031 a1 S 0:00.10 ./a.out 5032 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5033 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5034 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5035 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5036 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5037 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5038 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5039 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5040 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5041 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5042 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5043 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5044 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5045 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5046 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5047 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5048 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5049 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5050 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) 5051 a1 Z 0:00.00 (a.out) j@uriah 92% kill %2 [2] Terminated ./a.out -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 01:12:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA12189 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:12:11 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA12171 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:12:05 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.3) id EAA05718; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 04:07:17 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199507170807.EAA05718@hda.com> Subject: Re: And another g++ question To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 04:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507170659.IAA04835@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jul 17, 95 08:59:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 841 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch writes: > > > > strstream.cc:53: Undefined symbol `__vt$builtinbuf' referenced from text segment ... > > Does anyone recognize this problem? > > Are you sure your C++ compiler and library and header files match? > > I've typically seen this when installing a new version of g++ on our > Data General machines, but it's been a while ago. The __vt$'s are the > virtual method tables. There are now two ways (if i recall it right), > and one of them is to work without those tables. I reinstalled g++ to be sure. However, I do have another set of older include files in /usr/local/i386-unknown-bsd; I'll make sure ptolemy isn't somehow using those. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 01:40:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA13957 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:40:18 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA13507 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:35:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA08036; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 14:31:09 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507170831.OAA08036@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: FreeBSD EISA ethercard support To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 14:31:08 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, tomppa@fidata.fi In-Reply-To: <199507120627.IAA09358@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jul 12, 95 08:27:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 553 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I personally don't have any plans at all to add EISA ethernet card > > support to FreeBSD as all my EISA equipment has been removed from > > service and is awaiting either to be sold off in a fire sale, trashed, > > or donated to the FreeBSD Test Lab depending on just what it is and > > how many of them I have. > > I've been under the impression that one of the supported 3Com boards > is EISA (the 3c509?). Yes, it is! Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 03:55:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id DAA24193 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 03:55:02 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA24182 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 03:54:58 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA03522; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:55:51 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:55:50 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCL vs... In-Reply-To: <199507162100.QAA15209@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Jul 1995, Peter da Silva wrote: > In article <199507161947.MAA15572@rah.star-gate.com> you write: > >I am not interested on started a language war but perharps by following > >the Tcl vs... thread it can help us understand the current limitations > >of tcl, guile, pearl, etc... or their strengths... > > [That's perl, no "a"] > > Yeh, I remember that discussion. I haven't seen anything to change my > opinions, but more to the point I don't see what relevence it has to FreeBSD. > What solutions does it provide that aren't already addressed by existing > languages? What's its killer app? > > The ports tree already contains four Schemes (most of which are, and this is > a Good Thing, smaller than Guile), Perl, Tcl, and so on and so forth. Yet > another language... this time one covered by the Gnu Public Virus... is, well, > just yet another language. > > If you want to excite *me*, come up with an embeddable Smalltalk. > Maybe I should dust off my old Smalltalk. It implements the Smalltalk-80 virtual machine and class library, including a compiler (implemented in Smalltalk) and a GUI with all the standard browsers, inspectors and debuggers. The virtual machine is completely GPL free but the class library uses some code from GNU smalltalk. I guess that could be fixed though. -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 04:35:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA26487 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 04:35:16 -0700 Received: from risc6.unisa.ac.za (risc6.unisa.ac.za [163.200.97.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA26480 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 04:35:09 -0700 Received: by risc6.unisa.ac.za (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA40410; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:21:08 +0200 From: radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Message-Id: <9507171121.AA40410@risc6.unisa.ac.za> Subject: IRC server To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:21:07 +0200 (USAST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 120 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Could anybody recommend me the IRC server. I'd like to run it on my 2.0 system. Reagrds, Alex radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 04:53:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA26730 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 04:53:14 -0700 Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA26721 ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 04:53:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199507171153.EAA26721@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: IRC server To: radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 04:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9507171121.AA40410@risc6.unisa.ac.za> from "A. Radovanovic" at Jul 17, 95 01:21:07 pm From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 201 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A. Radovanovic writes: > > Could anybody recommend me the IRC server. I'd like to run it > on my 2.0 system. 2.8.21 works just fine for me. > > Reagrds, Alex > radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za > -- dima From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 05:21:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA27680 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 05:21:03 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA27674 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 05:21:01 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA15658 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for freebsd.org!hackers); Mon, 17 Jul 1995 06:54:32 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA02229; 17 Jul 95 06:53:53 CDT (Mon) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA02226 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 06:53:52 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507171153.GAA02226@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: TCL vs... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 06:53:52 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199507170651.XAA00518@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jul 16, 95 11:51:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 586 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty: > >>> Peter da Silva said: > > What solutions does it provide that aren't already addressed by existing > > languages? What's its killer app? > Better yet do we have any developers which can write killer apps :) > You are right we have plenty of languages so where are the apps ? You have it backwards. It's the apps drive languages. Like Mosaic and HotJava and Tk and Hypercard and FreeBSD and Emacs. Emacs Lisp isn't popular because it's lisp, it's popular because it's embedded in Emacs. FreeBSD is our killer app. And its native languages are C and sh and awk. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 07:54:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA03795 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 07:54:13 -0700 Received: from squid.umd.edu (squid.umd.edu [129.2.40.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA03785 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 07:54:10 -0700 Received: by squid.umd.edu (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA13546; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:02:53 -0400 From: fcawth@squid.umd.edu (Fred Cawthorne) Message-Id: <9507171502.AA13546@squid.umd.edu> Subject: Re: ZIP drives To: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 11:02:53 EDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507151213.HAA12836@bonkers.taronga.com>; from "Peter da Silva" at Jul 15, 95 7:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The Iomega ZIP drive looks just big enough to let me install FreeBSD on one, > using the live file system CD, to let me do test installs and stuff pretty > cheapl ($20 per 100M cartridge). Has anyone any input into this? > I have used it with a NCR scsi controller and an UltraStor 14f. There are some warnings from the NCR controller, but I don't remember seeing them with the Ultrastor. (When it is probed or a disk is changed, I get: sd2(ncr0:6:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB sd2 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry ) > Especially: has anyone used one under FreeBSD, or booted from one? > I have used it with FreeBSD to store stuff and install from, and I have installed FreeBSD and booted from it. You may have to boot from the floppy and give it the right root device though. (Depending on what your scsi controller does about booting) It makes a nice "emergency" system to boot BSD and reformat your hard drive, etc... Fred. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 09:29:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA07588 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:29:00 -0700 Received: from iguana.reptiles.org (iguana.reptiles.org [142.57.253.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA07575 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:28:49 -0700 Received: by iguana.reptiles.org (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.8) id ; Mon, 17 Jul 95 12:28 EDT Message-Id: From: jim@reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Subject: getpwent() YP/NIS bug To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Cc: taob@io.oef X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1582 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ i'm not on the hackers list, so include me in the cc if you want me to see it. ] i run a couple freebsd boxes along with my suns. my machine babybop was 1.1.5.1 up until this weekend when i installed 2.0.5 off the CD. in 1.1.5.1 i had babybop set up as a NIS client off of one of my sunos 4.1.1_u1 machines. worked fine. when i upgraded to 2.0.5, i noticed that passwords were not making it to the login program properly. the getpwent() call was returning a password of "*", which was the password in the "+:*:0:0:0" /etc/passwd entry. i applied the following patch to lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c and got what i think is the correct thing. babybop# diff getpwent.c getpwent.c.2.0.5 501d500 < int is_yp; 510,511d508 < is_yp = (pw->pw_name[0] == '+'); < 513c510 < if(!(pw->pw_fields & _PWF_NAME) || is_yp) { --- > if(!(pw->pw_fields & _PWF_NAME) || (pw->pw_name[0] == '+')) { 519c516 < if(!(pw->pw_fields & _PWF_PASSWD) || is_yp) { --- > if(!(pw->pw_fields & _PWF_PASSWD)) { this allows the code in the second "if" to put the yp passwd field into the appropriate place. i key'd the decision on the same token used for the pw_name field. -- [ Jim Mercer jim@reptiles.org +1 416 506-0654 ] [ Reptilian Research -- Longer Life through Colder Blood ] [ If you can read this, you are probably standing on the tracks. ] [ A train will be along momentarily to crush you. ] [ - fine print of an ad in a Toronto subway tunnel ] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 09:57:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA08415 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:57:06 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08409 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:57:02 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA11318; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:56:54 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199507171656.JAA11318@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: SCSI drivers To: stratlif@grail.cba.csuohio.edu (steven ratliff) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507162113.OAA08474@freefall.cdrom.com> from "steven ratliff" at Jul 16, 95 05:15:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5016 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk we already do most of this.. > > > The following may be irrelevant as I haven't looked at nor understand > FreeBSD's current SCSI system but I found the following News article > interesting. Particularly the section on error handling and recovery. > > Someone who does understand FreeBSD's SCSI might want to look at > this driver for Ideas on implementing a similar scheme if we don't already > do this. This might help with the rash of SCSI device hang reports that have > been posted recently. > > Steve > > DRIVER FEATURES > > o Configuration Reporting and Testing > > During system initialization, this driver reports extensively on the host > adapter hardware configuration, including the synchronous transfer > parameters negotiated with each target device. In addition, this driver > tests the hardware interrupt configuration to verify that interrupts are > actually delivered to the interrupt handler. This should catch a high > percentage of PCI motherboard configuration errors early, because when > the host adapter is probed successfully, most of the remaining problems > appear to be related to interrupts. We autoconfigure to thte interrupt th eboard is on but the interupt code isn't running yet so we can't TEST it. We already do all the other reporting (if asked) > > o Performance Features > > BusLogic SCSI host adapters directly implement SCSI-2 tagged queuing, and > so support has been included in this driver to utilize tagged queuing > with any target devices that report the tagged queuing capability. > SCSI-2 tagged queuing allows for multiple outstanding commands to be > issued to each target device, and can improve I/O performance > substantially. In addition, BusLogic's Strict Round Robin Mode is used > to optimize host adapter performance, and scatter/gather I/O can support > as many segments as can be effectively utilized by the I/O subsystem. we've done most of this since day 1 by default we are supporting 4 parallel operations passed to each disk. > > o Error Recovery > > This driver implements extensive error recovery procedures. When the > higher level parts of the SCSI subsystem request that a command be reset, > a bus device reset is first sent to the target device. If two bus device > resets have been attempted and no command to the device has completed > successfully, then a host adapter hard reset and SCSI bus reset is > performed. SCSI bus resets caused by other devices and detected by the > host adapter are also handled by issuing a hard reset to the host adapter > and full reinitialization. This strategy should improve overall system > robustness by preventing individual errant devices from causing the > system as a whole to lockup or crash, and thereby allowing a clean > shutdown and restart after the offending component is removed. we need to do more work on this part, but the basics are in place > > o Shared Interrupts Support > > On systems that support shared interrupts, any number of BusLogic host > adapters may share the same interrupt request channel. This driver scans > all registered BusLogic host adapters whenever an interrupt is handled on > any interrupt channel assigned to a BusLogic host adapter. Our system doesn't support it... the same (well an earlier version of it) driver DOES share interrupts on OSF1/386 (the OS supports shared interrupts) > > o Symmetric Multiprocessing Support > > While the Linux Kernel is currently limited to uniprocessors, there are > efforts being made to support symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) systems. > With that in mind, this driver implementation uses separate primitives > for disabling processor interrupts versus mediating exclusive access to > the host adapter hardware and driver data structures, so that when a > symmetric multiprocessing Linux Kernel becomes available, this driver > should only need relatively minor changes. It's too early to do this until we have a better idea of What approach we are going to take for MP. > > o Wide SCSI Support > > All BusLogic host adapters share a common programming interface, except > for the inevitable improvements and extensions as new models are > released, so support for Wide SCSI data transfer has automatically been > available in existing drivers. This driver adds explicit support for up > to 16 Device IDs and 64 Logical Units, to fully exploit the capabilities > of the newest BusLogic Wide SCSI host adapters. this is not an issue the the BL driver under FreeBSD but the generic SCSI code. We already support 16 devices.. it's needed for the wide NCR and adaptec adapters as well. > > Having said all that it does highlight the fact that I've been concentrating on work and not FreeBSD, and that a major SCSI cleanup is becoming needed.. This seems to happen every 9 months or so. since I wrote it in 1991, it's been through 5 rewrites and definitly needs a new one about now.. julian From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 10:04:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA08964 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:04:53 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA08958 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:04:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA23458 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:04:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199507171704.KAA23458@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How many aussies here going to QUESTnet95? (http://Bond.edu.au/QUESTnet95) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:04:19 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk And might any of you be interested in speaking about FreeBSD on behalf of the project? I'm down for a speaker's spot myself and, as much as I'd like to see Australia, I have to say that the timing is becoming more and more awkward for me as far as early September is concered. I'll do it if absolutely no other alternative presents itself, but I think it's time for your globe-trotting president to stay in one place long enough to get a little WORK DONE for a change! There's a lot that needs doing and it makes little sense for me to fly all the way down to the land down under when we have plenty of competent people there already! So, if somebody feels particularly well-suited to speak at an Australian UNIX conference and the QUESTnet people have no objection (I'll talk to them only once it looks like I've got someone actually lined up), I'd be very grateful and happy to see them do so! These things get planned a fair bit in advance and it's not always easy to know what one's life will be doing as the date gets closer! :-( Please contact me if you're interested.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 10:16:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA11181 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:16:20 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11174 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:16:17 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11374; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:16:11 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199507171716.KAA11374@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change To: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger, MCSNet) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" at Jul 16, 95 12:16:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2073 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk You really need to probe them in the same order as DOS (the BIOS) does, or you may not be able to get to your root disk and boot from it as well.. (the C:->sd0 D:->sd1 -- E:->sd2 mapping would become C:->sd1 D:->sd2 -- E:->sd0 and I'm pretty sure we couldn't boot from that :) The boot/kernel translation needs a LOT of work.. > > Good afternoon, > > I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here to > probe "b" first. > > The reason is this: > > 1) "A" has both internal and external connectors. > 2) "B" has only an internal connector. > > You probably will want to boot from an internal disk drive, or if you do > not, you probably want to have ALL disks external. > > If you boot from an internal disk, there is no reason not to use it on > channel "B". > > If you have an internal and external disk setup, why not boot from "B" and > have your externals on the only available connector -- "A"? This reduces > adapter contention and improves performance. > > If the device is a single-channel one, we do not probe "B". > > If there are no disks on "b", then probing it is harmless. > > If the boot disk is on "B", it gets sd0() so that root mounts correctly, and > your other devices on the external bus are not affected. > > This also solves impedence problems I've seen on Adaptec boards which come > up if you try to use both internal and external cabling on the same disk > channel. I recommend AGAINST doing this for that reason if at all possible. > > Anyone want these changes (move two lines) for the production code base, or > does anyone else think this is a good (or bad) idea? > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity > Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland > Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more > Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net > ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 10:28:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA12006 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:28:38 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA11998 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:28:36 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA11434; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:28:00 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199507171728.KAA11434@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: ZIP drives To: fcawth@squid.umd.edu (Fred Cawthorne) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 10:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507171502.AA13546@squid.umd.edu> from "Fred Cawthorne" at Jul 17, 95 11:02:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1127 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It should work.. as soon as it can load the disklabel then it trusts that for the geometry etc. > > > The Iomega ZIP drive looks just big enough to let me install FreeBSD on one, > > using the live file system CD, to let me do test installs and stuff pretty > > cheapl ($20 per 100M cartridge). Has anyone any input into this? > > > I have used it with a NCR scsi controller and an UltraStor 14f. There > are some warnings from the NCR controller, but I don't remember seeing > them with the Ultrastor. > (When it is probed or a disk is changed, I get: > sd2(ncr0:6:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > sd2 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry > ) > > Especially: has anyone used one under FreeBSD, or booted from one? > > > I have used it with FreeBSD to store stuff and install from, and I have > installed FreeBSD and booted from it. You may have to boot from the > floppy and give it the right root device though. (Depending on what > your scsi controller does about booting) It makes a nice "emergency" > system to boot BSD and reformat your hard drive, etc... > > Fred. > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 11:26:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14102 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:26:08 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA14096 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:26:06 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA20219; Mon, 17 Jul 95 12:18:41 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507171818.AA20219@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: TCL vs... To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 12:18:40 MDT Cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507170651.XAA00518@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jul 16, 95 11:51:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > What solutions does it provide that aren't already addressed by existing > > languages? What's its killer app? > > Better yet do we have any developers which can write killer apps :) > > You are right we have plenty of languages so where are the apps ? Bad place to ask. The people on this list have been seduced by the system side of the programming (dark side of the force?) and don't want to do application programming. 8-(. You're unlikely to see a free clone of "Microsoft Office" in the near future... anyone who developed one would most likely sell it. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 11:35:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA14873 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:35:20 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA14863 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:35:17 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03191; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:34:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199507171834.LAA03191@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: peter@bonkers.taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCL vs... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:18:40 MDT." <9507171818.AA20219@cs.weber.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:34:50 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > > > What solutions does it provide that aren't already addressed by existin g > > > languages? What's its killer app? > > > > Better yet do we have any developers which can write killer apps :) > > > > You are right we have plenty of languages so where are the apps ? > > Bad place to ask. The people on this list have been seduced by the > system side of the programming (dark side of the force?) and don't > want to do application programming. 8-(. > > You're unlikely to see a free clone of "Microsoft Office" in the near > future... anyone who developed one would most likely sell it. > > The "FreeBSD killer app" syndrome smells like technology for the sake of technology. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 12:19:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA17923 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:19:10 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA17912 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:19:06 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA19496 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:50:28 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA10200; 17 Jul 95 13:49:48 CDT (Mon) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA10197; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:49:48 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507171849.NAA10197@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: TCL vs... To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:49:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507171834.LAA03191@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jul 17, 95 11:34:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 145 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The "FreeBSD killer app" syndrome smells like technology for the > sake of technology. Quite the contrary. It's a challenge to that mindset. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 12:38:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18941 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:38:33 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18933 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:38:26 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA03323 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:39:17 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199507171939.PAA03323@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: File cache needs lower vm priority To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:39:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 291 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD's merged cache needs to throw out file data at the slightest need from a real process. Whenever any real I/O is going on things slow to a crawl. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 12:38:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA18957 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:38:38 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18944 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:38:34 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03709; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:38:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199507171938.MAA03709@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Peter da Silva cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCL vs... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:49:47 CDT." <199507171849.NAA10197@bonkers.taronga.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:38:21 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Peter da Silva said: > > The "FreeBSD killer app" syndrome smells like technology for the > > sake of technology. > > Quite the contrary. It's a challenge to that mindset. Sorry I don't consider this a challenge at all. Lets assume that for a brief moment or less that you are right. What will end users do with FreeBSD? So lets see, hack on device drivers, VM systems, add new system calls, etc.. But wait for a real life need it would be best to reboot or move over to a different machine which run Windows or some other OS with apps. Sounds kind of neat for a University environment or an OS research environment :) Now what could be a real life need asks Peter? (1) A spread sheet application (2) A comfortable WYSIWYG word processor (3) A nice GUI for a 3d graphics library (4) Image manipulation (5) A nice graphical front-end to a database (6) Integration of TV, phone, sound and an API to go with it. Okay, this was not a one or two liner :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 12:56:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA19717 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:56:06 -0700 Received: from earth.sarnoff.com (earth.sarnoff.com [130.33.8.176]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA19711 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:56:00 -0700 Received: by earth.sarnoff.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24870; Mon, 17 Jul 95 15:52:04 EDT Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:52:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: alpha release of mnfs distributed shared memory for freebsd 2.05r Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk For those of you interested in Distributed Shared Memory: i have an alpha release of the MNFS distributed shared memory working on 2.05R. It passes the basic tests I have for mnfs. We're bringing it up on our 16-node pentium cluster now. What is MNFS? MNFS is a modified NFS that supports DSM. It has to date run on SunOS, solaris, IRIX, and AIX. Until now I could never distribute it, but thanks to freebsd I now can. This release is a 'fresh out of the box' version that is working and has supported some basic programs. I am sure it has bugs ... but that's why I want to get it out: to get people pounding on it. What can i provide? Any or all of: 1) context diff for 2.05R. It's about 1200 lines. 2) .uu of tar of source tree 3) if you really want it, a generic kernel compiled with MNFS in. 4) paper from SEDMS '93 on mnfs performance is pretty good. Although i expect it to be much better when i plug in the 100base-t interfaces :-) ron Ron Minnich |(No Comment!): 'NTFS takes the best parts of rminnich@earth.sarnoff.com |FAT and HPFS ... From FAT, NTFS borrowed the (609)-734-3120 |"simplicity yields performance" philosophy ... ' [ From the Windows/NT Resource Guide ] From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 14:03:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA23493 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 14:03:29 -0700 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu (mailbox.syr.EDU [128.230.1.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23480 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 14:03:16 -0700 Received: from forbin.syr.edu by mailbox.syr.edu (8.6.9/SUM-V8-1.0) id RAA21913; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:03:29 -0400 Received: by forbin.syr.edu (5.x/Spike-2.0) id AA01056; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:02:44 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:02:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Sedore X-Sender: cmsedore@forbin.syr.edu To: "Ron G. Minnich" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: alpha release of mnfs distributed shared memory for freebsd 2.05r In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This sounds great. I'd like #1 and #2 if its easy-otherwise one or the other will do. I'll be trying it over FDDI if I can get all the pieces together. -Chris On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > > For those of you interested in Distributed Shared Memory: i have an alpha > release of the MNFS distributed shared memory working on 2.05R. It passes > the basic tests I have for mnfs. We're bringing it up on our 16-node > pentium cluster now. > > What is MNFS? MNFS is a modified NFS that supports DSM. It has to date > run on SunOS, solaris, IRIX, and AIX. Until now I could never distribute > it, but thanks to freebsd I now can. This release is a 'fresh out of the > box' version that is working and has supported some basic programs. I am > sure it has bugs ... but that's why I want to get it out: to get people > pounding on it. > > What can i provide? Any or all of: > 1) context diff for 2.05R. It's about 1200 lines. > 2) .uu of tar of source tree > 3) if you really want it, a generic kernel compiled with MNFS in. > 4) paper from SEDMS '93 on mnfs > > performance is pretty good. Although i expect it to be much better when i > plug in the 100base-t interfaces :-) > > ron > > Ron Minnich |(No Comment!): 'NTFS takes the best parts of > rminnich@earth.sarnoff.com |FAT and HPFS ... From FAT, NTFS borrowed the > (609)-734-3120 |"simplicity yields performance" philosophy ... ' > [ From the Windows/NT Resource Guide ] > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 15:09:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA27063 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:09:26 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27054 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:08:58 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA00829; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:08:48 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA02711; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:08:48 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507172208.RAA02711@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:08:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507171716.KAA11374@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jul 17, 95 10:16:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2295 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > You really need to probe them in the same order as DOS (the BIOS) does, > or you may not be able to get to your root disk and boot from it as well.. > (the C:->sd0 > D:->sd1 > -- > E:->sd2 > mapping would become > C:->sd1 > D:->sd2 > -- > E:->sd0 > > > and I'm pretty sure we couldn't boot from that :) > The boot/kernel translation needs a LOT of work.. If the kernel read the EISA config, this would be possible. But it doesn't, and thus isn't. -- Karl > > Good afternoon, > > > > I have changed the probe order on the twin channel SCSI 2742 adapter here to > > probe "b" first. > > > > The reason is this: > > > > 1) "A" has both internal and external connectors. > > 2) "B" has only an internal connector. > > > > You probably will want to boot from an internal disk drive, or if you do > > not, you probably want to have ALL disks external. > > > > If you boot from an internal disk, there is no reason not to use it on > > channel "B". > > > > If you have an internal and external disk setup, why not boot from "B" and > > have your externals on the only available connector -- "A"? This reduces > > adapter contention and improves performance. > > > > If the device is a single-channel one, we do not probe "B". > > > > If there are no disks on "b", then probing it is harmless. > > > > If the boot disk is on "B", it gets sd0() so that root mounts correctly, and > > your other devices on the external bus are not affected. > > > > This also solves impedence problems I've seen on Adaptec boards which come > > up if you try to use both internal and external cabling on the same disk > > channel. I recommend AGAINST doing this for that reason if at all possible. > > > > Anyone want these changes (move two lines) for the production code base, or > > does anyone else think this is a good (or bad) idea? > > > > -- > > -- > > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity > > Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland > > Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more > > Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net > > ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 15:12:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA27194 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:12:32 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27174 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:12:02 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA08206 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:11:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199507172211.QAA08206@rover.village.org> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ENOTTY???? Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:11:51 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Under what cases will a read return ENOTTY in FreeBSD 2.0R? I can't seem to find it in the kernel sources... That's not a ioctl (which I can find), but a read. Any ideas? What I'm seeing that is that, under heavy load (56700bps) TIA is exiting because a read returned -1 and errno is set to ENOTTY. I've placed a breakpoint at close, and I know I'm not closing the TTY fd. The fd is in raw mode. I didn't see a ENOTTY as a possible error code in the read(2) man page, and the entry for ENOTTY in the errno.h file just says the ioctl is only for ttys and this fd isn't a tty (but it is!). No signals appear to be generated, and I'm fairly sure that carrier isn't being dropped (it is a direct line, null modem). Normally, I don't like to ask these sorts of questions, but this smells like a kernel bug. Comments? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 15:57:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAB28279 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:57:15 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA28272 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:57:06 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21555; Mon, 17 Jul 95 16:50:06 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507172250.AA21555@cs.weber.edu> Subject: CDROM FS AS ROOT To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 16:50:05 MDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking at the cd9660_mountroot() function in the cd9660_vfsops.c source module. In this routine, there is an argument setting of args.flags to ISOFSMNT_ROOT, which is to say 0. This appears to be to specify ISO_FTYPE_DEFAULT? It seems that it would be more correct to specify: #ifndef ISOFSMNT_ROOT #define ISOFSMNT_ROOT ISO_FTYPE_DEFAULT /* root must be default*/ #endif instead of what is there now, which is: #ifndef ISOFSMNT_ROOT #define ISOFSMNT_ROOT 0 #endif And in fact would be cannonically more correct to throw out the dependence on the file system type in the mountroot code (or provide seperate entry points for a mountroot of each file system type)? I'm all for throwing the dependencies out the window; I think a root mount is a root mount. There are a couple of architecture changes necessary for auto-type detection, but once they're done (after the previously discussed changes), it should be possible to use any CDROM media type as a root file system without a lot of effort. What does everyone think? I need to know relatively soon so I can do the general changes correctly. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 16:55:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01097 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:55:52 -0700 Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA01087 ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:55:51 -0700 From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199507172355.QAA01087@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Re: File cache needs lower vm priority To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507171939.PAA03323@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jul 17, 95 03:39:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 677 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > FreeBSD's merged cache needs to throw out file data at the slightest need from > a real process. Whenever any real I/O is going on things slow to a crawl. > > -Crh > The file cache is about as low in priority as it can be. The pages in the file cache that are not pointed to by buffers are in the cache list. Those pages are almost as available as free pages. If you have any pages in the cache list, then you should not block waiting for memory. It might be that the overhead for the buffer management is getting to your machine. I am currently working on improving the efficiency, but on a /66 or faster the overhead should not be a killer. John dyson@root.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 17:43:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA02505 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:43:36 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA02499 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:43:35 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA21829; Mon, 17 Jul 95 18:36:23 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507180036.AA21829@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Twinchannel SCSI Adapter change To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 18:36:23 MDT Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, karl@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507172208.RAA02711@Jupiter.mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Jul 17, 95 05:08:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > You really need to probe them in the same order as DOS (the BIOS) does, > > or you may not be able to get to your root disk and boot from it as well.. > > (the C:->sd0 > > D:->sd1 > > -- > > E:->sd2 > > mapping would become > > C:->sd1 > > D:->sd2 > > -- > > E:->sd0 > > > > > > and I'm pretty sure we couldn't boot from that :) > > The boot/kernel translation needs a LOT of work.. > > If the kernel read the EISA config, this would be possible. > > But it doesn't, and thus isn't. Reading the EISA config requires a VM86() interface. This is because you will choke on about 20% of all EISA systems if you make the normal assumption about CMOS memory size: the EISA standard does not have specific requirements for per slot CMOS memory sizes. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 17:51:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA02780 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:51:32 -0700 Received: from genesis.nred.ma.us (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02774 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:51:29 -0700 Received: by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id UAA19080; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 20:51:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 20:51:24 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.nred.ma.us (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199507180051.UAA19080@genesis.nred.ma.us> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XFree86 and swap Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Sounds like the XFree86 folks are trying to address this problem in their > > server but it's probably time for someone to address the general malloc > > problem. > > This is already happening; there are several new mallocs under consideration, > at a guess I'd say you'll see the winer in 2.2 In the meantime, is there a version of XF86_SVGA kicking around that's been linked with gnumalloc? I could really use it as my system seems to be on a killing spree lately. :-) Thanks, - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 17:57:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id RAA03028 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:57:20 -0700 Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA03022 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:57:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11099 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:03:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199507180103.VAA11099@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCL vs... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:38:21 PDT." <199507171938.MAA03709@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:03:12 -0400 From: Robert Withrow Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >>> Peter da Silva said: > > > The "FreeBSD killer app" syndrome smells like technology for the > > > sake of technology. > > > > Quite the contrary. It's a challenge to that mindset. > > Sorry I don't consider this a challenge at all. > What will end users do with FreeBSD? > So lets see, hack on device drivers, VM systems, add new system calls, etc.. Well, in my company's case, they use it to measure and manufacture jet engines...In a nifty integrated yet distributed way... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 18:10:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA03578 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:10:29 -0700 Received: from simon.chi.il.us (simon.chi.il.us [199.245.227.17]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA03572 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:10:27 -0700 Received: by simon.chi.il.us (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0sY1BB-000NAyC; Mon, 17 Jul 95 20:10 CDT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 20:10 CDT From: steve@simon.chi.il.us (Steven E. Piette) To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Subject: Re: ESDI install now succeeded Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From freefall.cdrom.com!owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 01:53:48 1995 > Sender: freefall.cdrom.com!owner-freebsd-hackers > From: Wilko Bulte > Subject: ESDI install now succeeded > To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers list) > Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 19:35:46 +1596657 (MET DST) > > Hi > > Using a variant of the setup of Steve Piette I managed to get 205Snap > installed on a Micropolis 1558 and a WD1007 controller: > > W8 out (Steve had 'm in) > W14 in (disable translation) I installed W8 to force the controller to use drive settings of 36 sec/track. Micropolis specs default to 36 sec/track via the settings for W2, W3, W4 on the 1558 drive. If you have a drive that only does 35 s/t or a bios limit leave it out. Doing so gave me 322.73MB .vs. 313.77MB, a gain of almost 9MB. Not jumpering W8 causes the W1007 to force the drive to 35 sec/track ignoring the drive's sector size jumpers. If I said to jumper W14 (Translation mode) out, it was a typo. > > I used WDFMT.EXE from www.wdc.com to format the drive with 15 heads, > 1224 cyls and 35 sect/track (Steve used 36). > > bad144, disklabel and friends were now happily doing their job. > > It looks like we need a section 'ESDI installations' in the FreeBSD handbook. > I'm willing to write that as soon as I understand what is going on exactly. > > How are people using non-WD1007 adapters doing? E.g. using an Adaptec 2322 ? > > Wilko I'm willing to help.... If anyone has a 2322 to send me I'll try it out. Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 18:17:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA03764 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:17:47 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA03758 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:17:46 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id SAA19476 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:17:27 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06000; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:13:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199507180113.SAA06000@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCL vs... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:03:12 EDT." <199507180103.VAA11099@spooky.rwwa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:13:45 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Robert Withrow said: > > >>> Peter da Silva said: > > > > The "FreeBSD killer app" syndrome smells like technology for the > > > > sake of technology. > > > > > > Quite the contrary. It's a challenge to that mindset. > > > > Sorry I don't consider this a challenge at all. > > > What will end users do with FreeBSD? > > So lets see, hack on device drivers, VM systems, add new system calls, etc .. > > Well, in my company's case, they use it to measure and manufacture > jet engines...In a nifty integrated yet distributed way... > And I am sure that your company developed or ported the application. BTW: I am very impressed... This brings about another interesting point what are people doing with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 18:53:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA04499 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:53:03 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04492 ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:53:01 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA05107; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:53:53 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199507180153.VAA05107@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: File cache needs lower vm priority To: dyson@freefall.cdrom.com (John Dyson) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 21:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507172355.QAA01087@freefall.cdrom.com> from "John Dyson" at Jul 17, 95 04:55:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 751 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The file cache is about as low in priority as it can be. The pages > in the file cache that are not pointed to by buffers are in the > cache list. Those pages are almost as available as free pages. If > you have any pages in the cache list, then you should not block waiting > for memory. > > It might be that the overhead for the buffer management is getting to > your machine. I am currently working on improving the efficiency, but > on a /66 or faster the overhead should not be a killer. Its on a P100, but w/ a fast SCSI disk. Hopefully with all the new vm chanegs, things will improve dramatically. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 19:45:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA05862 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 19:45:08 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA05855 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 19:45:04 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA04660; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:25:31 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507180255.MAA04660@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: What people are doing with FBSD To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:25:30 +0930 (CST) Cc: witr@rwwa.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507180113.SAA06000@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jul 17, 95 06:13:45 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 622 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > This brings about another interesting point what are people doing > with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? We run atmospheric research radars with FreeBSD boxes. > Amancio -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 22:50:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA10153 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:50:12 -0700 Received: from chrome.onramp.net (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA10141 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:50:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.onramp.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA04682; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:50:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199507180550.AAA04682@chrome.onramp.net> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.onramp.net: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Uses for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 1995 18:13:45 PDT." <199507180113.SAA06000@rah.star-gate.com> Reply-To: jdl@chromatic.com Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:50:33 -0500 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In a hasty message, Amancio Hasty Jr. scribbled: > This brings about another interesting point what are people doing > with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? I use it at home on a small 10Base-T net with a Windows-95 machine as the basis for my job. Sadly, I live in Dallas while the company for whom I work is in Silly Valley. I connect via ISDN to my local provider. I have eaten, slept and breathed BSD for, like, the past 15 years or so, and the notion of going Windoze 95 cold turkey just scared me to death.... In short, I use it at work and home as a production machine where I write (and debug...) compilers on it. For the terminally curious, I currently run: kern.osrevision = 199306 kern.version = FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP #0: Thu Jun 22 04:15:25 1995 root@westhill.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC Which is pretty much right out of the box on a Dell Pentium 90 with a #9 GXE64 card, 16M and a couple gig of WD3100 disk space. I've had no problem with it at all and am quite happy with it! jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 22:59:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id WAA10723 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:59:39 -0700 Received: from demerzel.sol.net (demerzel.sol.net [204.95.172.242]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA10711 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:59:35 -0700 Received: from solaria.mil.wi.us (solaria.mil.wi.us [192.1.1.1]) by demerzel.sol.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA09133 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:58:47 -0500 Received: from wye.sol.net by solaria.mil.wi.us (8.5/8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04672; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:54:31 -0500 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by wye.sol.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id CAA04165; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:04:27 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199507180704.CAA04165@wye.sol.net> Subject: Welcome to the FreeBSD Milwaukee (yes Milw,WI, Rod..) Mailing List! To: freebsd-mke-l@ns.sol.net Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:04:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1132 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (message cc:'d to hackers.. any Milwaukeeans not on this list and interested in being added, let me know.) Welcome to the FreeBSD Milwaukee mailing list! This is intended to be a general purpose regional mailing list for FreeBSD users in the Milwaukee, WI region. The official list address is . For the time being the addressing won't be quite right but don't worry. Subscription requests should be sent to . A preliminary meeting of Milwaukee (yes, WI, Rod.. ;-) ) area hackers was held this evening at Von Trier's on the east side of town and went very well. Jim Lowe, Joe Greco, Derek Laufenberg, Derek Inksetter, Dave Dexter, Tim Winslow, and Ben Cheung attended (gee I hope I got those all right..) I don't know if anybody took any real minutes and I'm too tired to summarize. We have agreed to try to schedule another meeting in about a month. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jul 17 23:11:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA11130 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 23:11:37 -0700 Received: from pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (root@pluto.ops.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.212.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA11120 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 23:11:35 -0700 Received: from concorde.neosoft.com (root@concorde.NeoSoft.COM [198.65.161.214]) by pluto.ops.NeoSoft.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id BAA02492; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:11:33 -0500 Received: (from dbaker@localhost) by concorde.neosoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id BAA01839; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:11:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:11:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@concorde.neosoft.com To: hackers@freebsd.org, smace@neosoft.com Subject: Strange problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I get this error whenever I run w or top -- only programs I've noticed so far... I really don't understand what this error means... Any help will be appreciated. concorde % w 1:09AM up 6:23, 1 user, load averages: 0.02, 0.14, 0.09 USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT w: proc size mismatch (23560 total, 592 chunks): Undefined error: 0 concorde % Thanks.. ++If you're cool, you run FreeBSD++ Daniel Baker -- NeoSoft Student Assistant (UseNet, FTP & CivNet Admin.) DBaker@NeoSoft.COM DBaker@Concorde-Mail.NeoSoft.COM (A FreeBSD Machine) ** http://www.neosoft.com/neosoft/staff/dbaker/default.html ** From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 00:08:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13239 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:08:14 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13233 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:08:12 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01492; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:07:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199507180707.AAA01492@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:25:30 +0930." <199507180255.MAA04660@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:07:41 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Michael Smith said: > Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > This brings about another interesting point what are people doing > > with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? > > We run atmospheric research radars with FreeBSD boxes. > I might as well add what I do or have done with FreeBSD... o ip multicasting trouble shooting. At Cisco, while I was as there I used my FreeBSD box to help trouble their ip multicast code. This was a couple of years ago so I am not responsible for the state of affairs right now... o Low level X development work or modified XIE to provide hardware support for fax. o Snmp test development . o Tele-commuting. Whenver possible is great to use my FreeBSD box to work. o Voice and Fax -- right now my FreeBSD box serves as an answering/fax machine . I really like this a lot since I hate answering machines or stupid fax machines. Nor scanner though. o Occasionally, I watched a VideoCD on my box or on TV. The other day I gave a demo to an old friend of mine and he sat down and watch the whole movie so watch out! Since, I had already seen the movie I just kept on typing on my system :) Okay, is not rocket science ... Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 00:48:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA13996 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:48:57 -0700 Received: from dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU [130.155.16.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA13990 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 00:48:52 -0700 Received: from megadata.mega.com.au by dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (4.1/5.17) id AA12245; Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:48:02 EST (from andrew@mega.com.au) Received: from noah.mega.com.au by megadata.mega.com.au (4.1/SMI-4.1/MEGA) id AA27323; Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:48:19 EST Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:48:19 EST From: Andrew McRae Message-Id: <9507180748.AA27323@megadata.mega.com.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Here at MITS Real Time, we are using FreeBSD for the following: - As a portable development platform for supporting our embedded products for site work. - As a standalone unit running X as part of the Man Machine Interface in a Substation Management System (running on an Industrial PC). - For developing PC-Card (PCMCIA) support for FreeBSD. - For thumbing our noses at the Solaris 2.4 x86 people :-) Cheers, Andrew McRae inet: andrew@mega.com.au MITS Real Time Ltd, uucp: ..!uunet!mega.com.au!andrew North Ryde 2113 Phone: +61 2 805 0899 NSW AUSTRALIA Fax: +61 2 887 4847 X-Face: *Ca*Qw_'S?uT3u}"Y,-b[rIRFm*7MaD8zp6$7B?r8k&iGt4'2W@WFXSrP:%Dqk,V8Gap Jer pj*qHbFA!k4YDR"~iAO&gp*T=!KG*'c0:],:l}0(oAm?pdjC0.V{2%3v,w8pwqiL7$^}][Kiz- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 01:51:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA16660 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:51:31 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA16653 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:51:23 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT0EL9JJ00003WA4@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:36:17 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id JAA19413; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:48:45 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:48:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christoph Kukulies Subject: Re: Strange problem In-reply-to: from "Daniel Baker" at Jul 18, 95 01:11:22 am To: dbaker@concorde-mail.neosoft.com (Daniel Baker) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199507180748.JAA19413@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-length: 981 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I get this error whenever I run w or top -- only programs I've noticed so > far... I really don't understand what this error means... Any help will > be appreciated. > > concorde % w > 1:09AM up 6:23, 1 user, load averages: 0.02, 0.14, 0.09 > USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT > w: proc size mismatch (23560 total, 592 chunks): Undefined error: 0 > concorde % You didn't say whether you are running -current or some release or snapshot. Have you tried recompiling 'w' (and all proc structure related binaries)? > > Thanks.. > > ++If you're cool, you run FreeBSD++ > > Daniel Baker -- NeoSoft Student Assistant (UseNet, FTP & CivNet Admin.) > DBaker@NeoSoft.COM > DBaker@Concorde-Mail.NeoSoft.COM (A FreeBSD Machine) > ** http://www.neosoft.com/neosoft/staff/dbaker/default.html ** > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.0-BUILT-19950701 FreeBSD 2.0-BUILT- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 01:56:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA16923 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:56:11 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA16890 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:56:01 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA05328; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:40:13 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507180910.SAA05328@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Need help for FreeBSD To: vuong@jrtc169.ds.cubic.com (Tan Vuong) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:40:13 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, bugs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507142048.AA04570@jrtc134.> from "Tan Vuong" at Jul 14, 95 01:48:49 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 770 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Tan Vuong stands accused of saying: > Problem: When extracting FreeBSD 2.0. Solution : Return the FreeBSD 2.0 CDrom and exchange for the 2.0.5 CD. > Can not extract Xfree86-3.1: > See the message "Verify checksum..." > and then "Extract ....". But the system hang forever. > Try two different CD. The same problem. Hit Alt-F2. > Tan Vuong -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 01:58:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id BAA17081 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:58:46 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA17074 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 01:58:29 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id KAA15982 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:58:08 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id KAA03866 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:58:01 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507180858.KAA03866@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: Strange problem To: dbaker@concorde-mail.neosoft.com (Daniel Baker) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:58:01 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, smace@neosoft.com In-Reply-To: from "Daniel Baker" at Jul 18, 95 01:11:22 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 563 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I get this error whenever I run w or top -- only programs I've noticed so > far... I really don't understand what this error means... Any help will > be appreciated. > > concorde % w > 1:09AM up 6:23, 1 user, load averages: 0.02, 0.14, 0.09 > USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT > w: proc size mismatch (23560 total, 592 chunks): Undefined error: 0 Rebuild libkvm and top. It was in the commit mail... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 04:07:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA20392 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:07:03 -0700 Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA20384 for freebsd-hackers; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:07:02 -0700 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199507181107.EAA20384@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: 8416s To: freebsd-hackers Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:07:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 488 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I saw a message earlier about problems with 8416s, but with the 062295 SNAP, both of mine are seen just fine (In the same machine). I belive this might be a conflicts problem or I maybe just lucky. Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | FreeBSD support and service gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG | mail info@gbdata.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp.FreeBSD.ORG in ~pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-current/src/share/FAQ/Text/FreeBSD.FAQ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 04:49:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id EAA22914 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:49:11 -0700 Received: from UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU (root@UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU [129.7.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id EAA22907 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:49:07 -0700 Received: from Taronga.COM by UUCP-GW.CC.UH.EDU with UUCP id AA28119 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:37:53 -0500 Received: by bonkers.taronga.com (smail2.5p) id AA29600; 18 Jul 95 06:37:11 CDT (Tue) Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA29597; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:37:11 -0500 From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199507181137.GAA29597@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: TCL vs... To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:37:10 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507171938.MAA03709@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jul 17, 95 12:38:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1588 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > The "FreeBSD killer app" syndrome smells like technology for the > > > sake of technology. > > Quite the contrary. It's a challenge to that mindset. > Sorry I don't consider this a challenge at all. > Lets assume that for a brief moment or less that you are right. > What will end users do with FreeBSD? What do the end users around here use FreeBSD for? For connecting to the Internet or providing Internet services, mostly. That's a killer app. There really isn't anything else that can do the job as well, except NetBSD, and it's not marketed. > But wait for a real life need it would be best to reboot or move > over to a different machine which run Windows or some other OS with apps. Did I say that or are you reading between the lines... between someone else's lines, it seems...? > Sounds kind of neat for a University environment or an OS research > environment :) > Now what could be a real life need asks Peter? HotJava. Netscape. Freestone. TIS Firewall Toolkit. Netsite. Apache. Mosaic. INN. WUftpd. Fuzzball. IRC. ... But this is a red herring. I wasn't attacking FreeBSD for a lack of killer apps. I consider the Internet to be *the* killer app for FreeBSD. It's just so much more stable, reliable, and effective as an Internet host than just about anything I've used... including BSDI... that it just needs to be marketed to blow away everyone else's platforms. I was asking about the applications for *guile*. Something that makes it worth screwing around with a GPV-infected language when there's 4 other scheme implementations already in ports. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 05:31:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24219 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 05:31:09 -0700 Received: from dvals1.larc.nasa.gov (dvals1.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.4.96]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA24210 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 05:31:05 -0700 Received: (from branson@localhost) by dvals1.larc.nasa.gov (8.6.11/8.6.9) id IAA10127 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:30:57 -0400 From: Branson Matheson Message-Id: <199507181230.IAA10127@dvals1.larc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (Hackers FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: <199507180255.MAA04660@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 18, 95 12:25:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1586 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Amancio Hasty Jr. stands accused of saying: > > This brings about another interesting point what are people doing > > with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? Well..... I use one at work as anb amanda server for SGI and Sun Machines. I also use it for telecommuting from home. ( and it is great at that. ) At home I have lots of uses: - I am working to duplicate Amancio's answering computer with a cheaper modem. I am close but I have so little time :-( - I am using it for computer control of various things around my house. this is based on the xten stuff ( which is great BTW ) does my lights, air conditioning, and my heating in the winter! Also sends me mail about activities going on at home. Like someone came in the door. The alarm system just went off... somthing is in the back yard... etc.. - I use my old 386 and an xten adaptor for Light Control for bands.. it is a little slow...but with planning it works great... also looking at using the sound card to figure out the beat and automate that quite a bit... right now can be used for scenes and so forth. And it is cheap... any one looking for a cheap lighting system for plays and things it works out well. That is about it... except for hacking. -branson -- MATHESON, E BRANSON E.B.MATHESON@LaRC.NASA.GOV Mail Stop 931 COMPUTER SCIENCES CORPORATION NASA Langley Research Center Assigned to Operations Support Division Hampton, VA 23681-0001 Phone +1 804 864-9700 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 05:34:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24491 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 05:34:53 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA24116 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 05:29:07 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de with SMTP (5.67b+/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA02806; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:47:04 +0200 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id NAA20593 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:47:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA09102 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:16:59 +0200 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199507180716.JAA09102@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SOLVED: rsh/rlogin problems in 2.0.5-RELEASE To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:16:59 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <199507161444.QAA23990@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Jul 16, 95 04:44:51 pm Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 465 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > > > The hack to make ruserok() accept comments starting at column 1 in > > hosts.equiv and ~/.rhosts is a two-liner; i'm going to commit it. > > Will you use config_open(3) ? Poul-Henning wrote them just for this kind > of file. This would have made it much more work than a two-liner. :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 05:43:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id FAA24790 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 05:43:18 -0700 Received: from ess.harris.com (su15a.ess.harris.com [130.41.1.251]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA24784 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 05:43:16 -0700 Received: from borg.ess.harris.com (suw2k.ess.harris.com) by ess.harris.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17758; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:43:14 -0400 Received: by borg.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14287; Tue, 18 Jul 95 08:40:47 EDT Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 08:40:47 EDT From: jleppek@suw2k.ess.harris.com (James Leppek) Message-Id: <9507181240.AA14287@borg.ess.harris.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are using it as the basis for the Secure Network Architecture Research Environment (SNARE) program. We are involved with IEEE, NIST, and ISO organizations working on abstract security service designs and prototypes for next generation security standards. We will be giving FreeBSD its first public (for us) spin at a technology conference in August. wish I could get the 3c589 PCMCIA card to work with BNC :-( Jim Leppek From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 06:04:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA25663 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:04:53 -0700 Received: from campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA25468 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:02:07 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by campino.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (4.1/campino-8) id AA25586; Tue, 18 Jul 95 14:57:53 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id OAA19862; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:39:23 +0200 Message-Id: <199507181239.OAA19862@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Strange problem To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:39:22 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) In-Reply-To: <199507180858.KAA03866@blaise.ibp.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Jul 18, 95 10:58:01 am From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 762 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I get this error whenever I run w or top -- only programs I've noticed so > > far... I really don't understand what this error means... Any help will > > be appreciated. > > > > concorde % w > > 1:09AM up 6:23, 1 user, load averages: 0.02, 0.14, 0.09 > > USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE WHAT > > w: proc size mismatch (23560 total, 592 chunks): Undefined error: 0 > > Rebuild libkvm and top. It was in the commit mail... ...and rebuild the kernel > -- > Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG > FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.0-BUILT-19950701 FreeBSD 2.0-BUILT- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 06:23:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id GAA27116 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:23:08 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA27063 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:22:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA05217; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:22:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199507181322.GAA05217@time.cdrom.com> To: Michael Smith cc: vuong@jrtc169.ds.cubic.com (Tan Vuong), hackers@freebsd.org, bugs@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need help for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:40:13 +0930." <199507180910.SAA05328@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 06:22:20 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Solution : Return the FreeBSD 2.0 CDrom and exchange for the 2.0.5 CD. He doesn't even have to return the CD. Walnut Creek has a new policy: If you want to "return" one of our CDs, just call and ask and we'll send you a new one. You do NOT have to send us back your old one! We trust you.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 07:53:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id HAA20157 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 07:53:18 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA20134 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 07:53:12 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA07990 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:53:57 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199507181453.KAA07990@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: UID > 65536 works ? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:53:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 352 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I removed the UID > 65536 check in pw_mkdb, and then created a uid of 250000. Everything appeared to work as would be expected, is there any reason this check is there, other than historical? And can we remove it? -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 08:27:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id IAA26067 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:27:33 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA26058 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:27:21 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA17692; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 01:20:41 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 01:20:41 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507181520.BAA17692@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: julian@ref.tfs.com, stratlif@grail.cba.csuohio.edu Subject: Re: SCSI drivers Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> parameters negotiated with each target device. In addition, this driver >> tests the hardware interrupt configuration to verify that interrupts are >> actually delivered to the interrupt handler. This should catch a high >> ... >We autoconfigure to thte interrupt th eboard is on but the interupt code >isn't running yet so we can't TEST it. We already do all the other reporting >(if asked) sio has been annoying people for years by testing that the interrupt actually works and sometimes failing the test :-). The interrupt code is partly running and sio has to do bad things to stop it. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 09:36:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA29185 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:36:08 -0700 Received: from iguana.reptiles.org (iguana.reptiles.org [142.57.253.130]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA29179 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:35:51 -0700 Received: by iguana.reptiles.org (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.8) id ; Tue, 18 Jul 95 12:35 EDT Message-Id: From: jim@reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Subject: Re: getpwent() YP/NIS bugu To: wpaul@skynet.cdrom.com (A boy and his worm gear) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507181331.JAA15281@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "A boy and his worm gear" at Jul 18, 95 09:30:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1160 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > in 1.1.5.1 i had babybop set up as a NIS client off of one of my sunos > > 4.1.1_u1 machines. worked fine. > > Babybop? *shudder* yeah, and i have a barney too, and i-love-you.you-love-me is a cname for babybop. 8^) > If you want to set up normal NIS client operations, use this: > +::::::::: > _NOT_ this: > +:*:0:0:::::: gah, i gues RTFM is the key word for today. sorry. > I'll look into this, but in the meantime, why not just take the damn '*' > out of your master.passwd file? This isn't strictly a bug since the > behavior you're seeing is expected. It isn't documented though, which is > something I need to fix before the next release. i took the * out, and rebuilt the original getpwent, and all is well. it is kinda documented in passwd(5). -- [ Jim Mercer jim@reptiles.org +1 416 506-0654 ] [ Reptilian Research -- Longer Life through Colder Blood ] [ If you can read this, you are probably standing on the tracks. ] [ A train will be along momentarily to crush you. ] [ - fine print of an ad in a Toronto subway tunnel ] From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 09:42:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA29490 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:42:04 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA29417 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:41:39 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA25707; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:44:45 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199507181644.MAA25707@haven.ios.com> Subject: Re: HELP! Large Configuration needed. To: didier@omnix.fr.org (Didier Derny) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507121547.RAA03896@zapata.omnix.fr.org> from "Didier Derny" at Jul 12, 95 05:47:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1108 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi there, > I have to install a FreeBSD 2.0-RELEASE with > > the fastest available mother board/ pentium. > The fastest scsi board (either PCI or VLB) > 256 Mb of memory > the fastest scsi hard disks. > the fastest 10Mb Ethernet board. > > I want to find the components from widely distrubuted brand such > as Adaptec, Bus Logic..... > > I aslo want the most reliable components. Go for: Gateway P-120 w. Triton chipset based motherboard ( !!! - note , they apparenly have only 4 slots for SIMMs - so double check if you'll be able to put 256 Mb of RAM into it ... they have some advanced RAM - DRAM or something like this , but it only comes in 16 Mb SIMMs . Sigh :( Adaptec 2940 PCI-SCSI Seagate Barracudas HDDs SMC EtherPower Ethernet adapter Diamond Stealth 64 with 4 Mb of RAM :)) - but be careful here too - the folx from XFree team doesn't have a XS3 binary for the latest Diamond card ( the one which comes with Texas Inst. 220 Mhz chip) , so either buy something less bleading from Diamond , or wait a month or so . Anything else would be uncivilized :)) Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 09:51:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA29858 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:51:25 -0700 Received: from p54c.spnet.com (p54c.spnet.com [204.156.130.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA29851 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:51:20 -0700 Received: from localhost.spnet.com (localhost.spnet.com [127.0.0.1]) by p54c.spnet.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA05380; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:51:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199507181651.JAA05380@p54c.spnet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: p54c.spnet.com: Host localhost.spnet.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: elh@spnet.com Subject: FreeBSD Killer Apps (was Re: TCL vs...) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:51:11 -0700 From: Ed Hudson Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk howdy. i'm not certain this is appropriate for this news group... i build ic cad applications (original work), and use FreeBSD as my primary development platform... sadly, all of my distributions (sales) are to IRIX and SunOS platforms (to date)... i'm trying to talk a major cad vendor into making their primary product available under FreeBSD... the answer is (so far) 'when we can get FlexLM support, then maybe we'll proceed...' FlexLM is a license manager/library application that most IC cad vendors use. as such, it maybe a critical 'sub-application' i know of at least one vlsi design startup here in silicon valley that uses NetBSD for running significant logic simulation regressions on a large array of pentia's (private verilog2c) (i know of a couple of other startups considering a similar methodology - i'm trying to steer them to FreeBSD). i know of several people using FreeBSD boxes as X-terminals for isdn links to their work places (again, sadly, i know more people using linux for this, so far... but hope this will change as people try to actually run local compiles instead of just X - they'll want a more SunOS like environment) FreeBSD is just missing a couple of key applications to be generally usefull as an ic-development environment commercially (ie, commercial use of public domain, or near-public-domain (university) (eg, spice3) tools). in particular, a good public-domain verilog is needed the most (i understand that such an effort is underway at stanford?) for many of the univeristy tools, ports exist, but there's no central distribution available. for many of these university tools in the USA, such as spice3, there are hold-over export restrictions that are about as bad as DES. -elh From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 10:21:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01027 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:21:55 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA01021 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:21:53 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA24069; Tue, 18 Jul 95 11:14:45 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507181714.AA24069@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: UID > 65536 works ? To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 11:14:44 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507181453.KAA07990@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jul 18, 95 10:53:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I removed the UID > 65536 check in pw_mkdb, and then created a uid of 250000. > Everything appeared to work as would be expected, is there any reason this > check is there, other than historical? And can we remove it? The check is there for interoperability with FreeBSD as an NIS master or slave (not client) with a non-FreeBSD slave or client (not master). This is because in order for the entries to be useful on most older systems, you have to fit their idea of uid_t and gid_t. On FreeBSD, these are unsigned longs; on older systems, they are unsigned (or even signed) shorts. By moving this restriction, you are breaking interoperability. Potentially, the line transfer representation in NIS would cause the values to be truncated before they are sent out (instead of being truncated by the recieving system). I haven't checked the NIS code to be sure ...but you can while you are in there putting it back 8-). Probably, the code wants comments to this effect so it doesn't happen again. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 10:31:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01287 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:31:06 -0700 Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA01280 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:31:01 -0700 Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA08760; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:31:32 -0400 From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199507181731.NAA08760@crh.cl.msu.edu> Subject: Re: UID > 65536 works ? To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507181714.AA24069@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 18, 95 11:14:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1363 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The check is there for interoperability with FreeBSD as an NIS master > or slave (not client) with a non-FreeBSD slave or client (not master). > > This is because in order for the entries to be useful on most older > systems, you have to fit their idea of uid_t and gid_t. > > On FreeBSD, these are unsigned longs; on older systems, they are unsigned > (or even signed) shorts. > > By moving this restriction, you are breaking interoperability. > > Potentially, the line transfer representation in NIS would cause the > values to be truncated before they are sent out (instead of being > truncated by the recieving system). I haven't checked the NIS code > to be sure ...but you can while you are in there putting it back 8-). > > Probably, the code wants comments to this effect so it doesn't happen > again. It goes against every other piece of FreeBSD to keep out-dated defaults so things work (e.g. the LINEMODE in telnetd, or the tcp options). Having > 65535 UIDS is more useful to a fair number of folk than working with outdated NIS clients. Why not make an option so that you can enable the current broken behavior if need be, and default to what most modern operating systems now use, or are moving to rapidly. -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu http://rs560.msu.edu/~henrich/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 10:38:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA01678 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:38:23 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA01669 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:38:20 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA00760 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:42:43 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199507181742.NAA00760@ns1.win.net> Subject: Re: UID > 65536 works ? (fwd) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:42:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 445 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > The check is there for interoperability with FreeBSD as an NIS master > > or slave (not client) with a non-FreeBSD slave or client (not master). > > Let us make it soft, so those who need it so can make it so. Or so those who don't want it can burn it out. Or something. Let us kill the 16 bit limits first. Then let us kill the 32 bit ones. Confess your 64 bit needs, as I have. Come clean. Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 10:45:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id KAA02004 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:45:27 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA01993 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:45:23 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA19840 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:45:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:45:02 -0400 Message-Id: <199507181745.NAA19840@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Amancio Hasty Jr.says > This brings about another interesting point what are people doing > with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? > WAN routers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 11:25:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA03731 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:25:49 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03721 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:25:44 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA21816; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:22:53 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:22:53 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507181822.EAA21816@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, imp@village.org Subject: Re: ENOTTY???? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Under what cases will a read return ENOTTY in FreeBSD 2.0R? I can't >seem to find it in the kernel sources... That's not a ioctl (which I >can find), but a read. Any ideas? >What I'm seeing that is that, under heavy load (56700bps) TIA is >exiting because a read returned -1 and errno is set to ENOTTY. I've >placed a breakpoint at close, and I know I'm not closing the TTY fd. This "can't happen" at least for ttys and ptys. Perhaps read() actually returned 0 and errno is stale. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 11:36:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04143 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:36:34 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04121 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:36:27 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA21989; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:30:36 +1000 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:30:36 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507181830.EAA21989@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imp@village.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: A problem with disklabel & "use entire disk" on 2.0.5R. Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Is there some way to write a valid partion table to BSD only disks? >> Wouldn't that solve the problem, or am I dreaming... >Problem is that boot1 lives in sector 0 in this case, so anytime you >install new boot blocks you end up with a 50K not quite right bogus >partition table from the boot1 code. >Newfs needs fixed to deal with the fact it _must_ preserve the existing >partition table if installing boot code to physical sector 0 of the disk. A partition that covers the whole disk must have offset 0 and cover the MBR. Such partitions can reasonably be considered as invalid. Preserving them would make no difference to FreeBSD and might not stop foreign fdisks and installs from nuking them. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 11:43:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id LAA04923 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:43:00 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04917 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:42:58 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00812 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:42:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199507181842.LAA00812@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: apsfiler and text output Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:42:46 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone out there knows how make apsfilter print listings in an ascending order? Right now I have to re-order the listings by hand... If it matters I have an HP Laserjet 5MP (postscript) Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 12:13:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07113 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:13:43 -0700 Received: from clark.net (rjw@clark.net [168.143.0.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07107 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:13:41 -0700 Received: (rjw@localhost) by clark.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA03545; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:13:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:13:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Weldon To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-Reply-To: <199507180707.AAA01492@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > o Voice and Fax -- right now my FreeBSD box serves as an answering/fax > machine . I really like this a lot since I hate answering machines or > stupid fax machines. Nor scanner though. Do you have anything written up on how you are doing this? Even a quick thing like this is what I am using and the hardware involved if any. > > o Occasionally, I watched a VideoCD on my box or on TV. > The other day I gave a demo to an old friend of mine and he sat down > and watch the whole movie so watch out! Since, I had already seen > the movie I just kept on typing on my system :) How are you pulling this off as well? Just call him Mr. Multimedia. :-) My day job I work for the Air Force. We use FreeBSD boxes as mail gateways, desktop workstations etc... Right now we are setting up a Multicast network internally for communications between serveral divisions scattered around the Pentagon. I anticipate using FreeBSD boxes with GUS cards, mic's etc.... to put out in the user areas for commo among the offices. They are a wonderfully cheap solution for this type of stuff. I would be very interested in setting them up as fax/answering systems that could record mail messages and let the user play them back on their SUN/FreeBSD mime capable workstation. Is this far-fetched or even possible? I seem to remember Amancio posting something like this a while back. > Okay, is not rocket science ... Sounds like rocket science to me. :-) > > Enjoy, > Amancio Rick Weldon From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 12:15:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07460 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:15:54 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07452 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:15:52 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA12857; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:15:50 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA00718; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:15:49 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507181915.OAA00718@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: SCSI disk wedge (fwd) To: bugs@ns1.win.net (Mark Hittinger) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:15:48 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507122036.QAA16323@ns1.win.net> from "Mark Hittinger" at Jul 12, 95 04:36:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1930 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Can you be more specific about which controller and/or drives you are > > > seing this with? Trying to recall the mail for the last month with > > > ``disk channel hangs'' as the keyword doesn't work for me, my poor old > > > mind is not what it use to be :-) > > Aha1742 and AHA 27xx -- both EISA. > > On the 27xx driver we get an error, on the 1742 the failure is silent. > > Other than that, the behavior is identical. > > I'm running two p60 32mb eisa with AHA27xx. I have some HP drives and > some seagate barracudas. Going to ditch the HP soon. I beat up on them > pretty heavily and do not see a problem. > > My motherboards are those weirdo broken DMA boards so even though I have > 32mb I have to use bounce buffers. Just for grins you might try a kernel > with bounce buffers and see if you get the hangs. > > Another dumb idea is that something else is causing the problem and the > symptom is a scsi timeout. I've made this mistake and chased a wild > goose. > > I don't wanna open the box and find out what my adaptec firmware rev > level is but...... > > The only other i/o in the boxes are the EISA style 3c509. > > I am running the -current build from June 30'th. > > Regards, > > Mark Hittinger > bugs@win.net Uh, I'm not betting on the disk wedge any longer. My bet is on a VM problem of some kind. Peter Wemm has provided some code which has *changed* the symptoms on the 1742 systems from a hang to a crash with a VM problem (freed objects that are already free). I'm going to continue to work this. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 12:16:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA07561 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:16:30 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA07517 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:16:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA12551; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:15:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199507181915.NAA12551@rover.village.org> To: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: ENOTTY???? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 04:22:53 +1000 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:15:06 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk : This "can't happen" at least for ttys and ptys. Perhaps read() actually : returned 0 and errno is stale. Read defintely returns -1, and errno is 25, which translates to ENOTTY. Read is getting called for sure. However, the same thing happens when I unplug the cable and I have modem set. The problem went away when I reseated all of the cables, inside and out, fo the two machines that were connected. I would have expected a EBADF in this case. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 12:27:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA08705 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:27:26 -0700 Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA08696 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:27:19 -0700 Received: (from bertus@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA08300; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:26:36 +0200 From: Bertus Pretorius Message-Id: <199507181926.VAA08300@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:26:36 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507181745.NAA19840@mail.htp.com> from "dennis" at Jul 18, 95 01:45:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 543 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Amancio Hasty Jr.says > This brings about another interesting point what are people doing > with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? > Firewall encrypting routers. Terrorising the OS/2 co-workers. -- +-Bertus Pretorius------------ (O) (O) ---------------bertus@mikom.csir.co.za-+ | mikomtek ^ +27 12 841-3001 (Voice) | | CSIR \___/ +27 12 841-4720 (FAX) | +-----------------A smile is the same in all languages------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 12:40:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09489 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:40:46 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09479 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:40:43 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA17828; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:40:01 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA00250; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:41:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199507181941.MAA00250@corbin.Root.COM> To: Karl Denninger cc: bugs@ns1.win.net (Mark Hittinger), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI disk wedge (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jul 95 14:15:48 CDT." <199507181915.OAA00718@Jupiter.mcs.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:41:17 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Uh, I'm not betting on the disk wedge any longer. My bet is on a VM problem >of some kind. Peter Wemm has provided some code which has *changed* the >symptoms on the 1742 systems from a hang to a crash with a VM problem (freed >objects that are already free). > >I'm going to continue to work this. Sounds like the object allocation race condition I fixed recently. It happens when doing lots of NFS client stuff. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 12:45:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id MAA09763 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:45:34 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA09756 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:45:32 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA05322; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:44:57 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507181944.MAA05322@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: A problem with disklabel & "use entire disk" on 2.0.5R. To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Cc: imp@village.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507181830.EAA21989@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 19, 95 04:30:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2663 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >> Is there some way to write a valid partion table to BSD only disks? > >> Wouldn't that solve the problem, or am I dreaming... > > >Problem is that boot1 lives in sector 0 in this case, so anytime you > >install new boot blocks you end up with a 50K not quite right bogus > >partition table from the boot1 code. > > >Newfs needs fixed to deal with the fact it _must_ preserve the existing > >partition table if installing boot code to physical sector 0 of the disk. > > A partition that covers the whole disk must have offset 0 and cover the > MBR. Yes, that is true. > Such partitions can reasonably be considered as invalid. Such paritions have been considered valid for 386BSD 0.0, 0.1 all patchkits, FreeBSD 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0, NetBSD 0.8, 0.9 and as far as I know 1.0. I am not sure on the BSDI area, but I belive upto 1.0 this is true. They are considered valid foreign partitions by DOS 4.1, 5.0 and 6.x, Netware 3.12, DR DOS 6.0, DR DOS 7.0. I have not seen a fdisk or MBR utility thats says they are invalid. > Preserving > them would make no difference to FreeBSD and might not stop foreign > fdisks and installs from nuking them. You are correct in that preserving them makes no difference to FreeBSD itself. It _may_ make a difference to the BIOS and it _certainly_ makes a difference to any foreign fdisk. Up until recently I was in the habit of properly reseting the fdisk parameters after all disklabel installs of boot blocks on these types of disks to make sure that my disks would be impervious to likes of DOS 5.x and later install utilities that will splat them selves on any free disk space they see faster than you can say WTF. This was an important step to insure that one of my customers did not go booting a DOS install disk only to have it wipe his FreeBSD system from the disk (something that occured once before I took corrective action to make sure it never happened again). Something I still do on every machine that goes out of here, something I wasn't doing near as often on my own disks, but am now doing again since I don't use sysinstall and truly do use the ``whole'' disk for FreeBSD. I can garantee you that if the partition table in your MBR says that all blocks of the device are consumed by a valid parition entry these commercial foreign fdisks will not nuke your disk without first asking you. [I won't say the same for some pd software that will do anything you tell it to without a worry about confirmation or any form of validation :-)] -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 13:04:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA10769 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:04:42 -0700 Received: from bigbird.vmicls.com (bigbird.vmicls.com [198.17.96.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA10761 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:04:37 -0700 Received: from gonzo by bigbird.vmicls.com (8.6.9/SMI-4.1-vmicls-master-host-1) id QAA09610; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:05:29 -0400 From: Jerry.Kendall@vmicls.com (Jerry Kendall) Organization: VMI Communications and Learning Systems Received: by gonzo (5.0/vmi-client-host-1) id AA09015; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:05:27 +0500 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:05:27 +0500 Message-Id: <9507182005.AA09015.gonzo@vmicls.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: on demand PPP X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII content-length: 256 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I can't seem to locate the 'definition' of this. I read this as: The ppp interface is always there. The link between modems is only made when packets are to be sent. Is this the case???? How do I set up the on demand feature? Jerry From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 13:14:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA11401 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:14:52 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA11391 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:14:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199507182014.NAA11391@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: stratlif@grail.cba.csuohio.edu (steven ratliff), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 95 09:56:54 PDT." <199507171656.JAA11318@ref.tfs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:14:49 -0700 From: "& freefall.cdrom.com" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >we already do most of this.. > ... >> BusLogic SCSI host adapters directly implement SCSI-2 tagged queuing, and >> so support has been included in this driver to utilize tagged queuing >> with any target devices that report the tagged queuing capability. >> SCSI-2 tagged queuing allows for multiple outstanding commands to be >> issued to each target device, and can improve I/O performance >> substantially. In addition, BusLogic's Strict Round Robin Mode is used >> to optimize host adapter performance, and scatter/gather I/O can support >> as many segments as can be effectively utilized by the I/O subsystem. >we've done most of this since day 1 >by default we are supporting 4 parallel operations passed to each disk. Few, if any, of the drivers utilize 4 parallel operations per device. Tagged queuing needs to be implemented in a more general fashion with proper per device queues so that conditions like QUEUE FULL can be handled correctly. >> o Error Recovery >> >> This driver implements extensive error recovery procedures. When the >> higher level parts of the SCSI subsystem request that a command be reset, >> a bus device reset is first sent to the target device. If two bus device >> resets have been attempted and no command to the device has completed >> successfully, then a host adapter hard reset and SCSI bus reset is >> performed. SCSI bus resets caused by other devices and detected by the >> host adapter are also handled by issuing a hard reset to the host adapter >> and full reinitialization. This strategy should improve overall system >> robustness by preventing individual errant devices from causing the >> system as a whole to lockup or crash, and thereby allowing a clean >> shutdown and restart after the offending component is removed. >we need to do more work on this part, but the basics are in place One of the big things missing here is a sequence id on commands so that when a bus reset occurs, the commands can be "played back" in the original order. This is critical if any sequential access device gets reset. The work to do proper a BUS DEVICE RESET to timed out devices has already begun on the aic7xxx driver and I am currently reviewing code from Dan Eischen that does almost all of this. Unfortunately, I don't believe that proper recovery methods are being worked on for the other drivers. >> o Shared Interrupts Support >> >> On systems that support shared interrupts, any number of BusLogic host > adapters may share the same interrupt request channel. This driver scans >> all registered BusLogic host adapters whenever an interrupt is handled on >> any interrupt channel assigned to a BusLogic host adapter. >Our system doesn't support it... >the same (well an earlier version of it) driver DOES share interrupts >on OSF1/386 (the OS supports shared interrupts) We should support it for EISA and we do support it for PCI. What ever became of the eisa config code that you were working on? The problem with the buslogic driver is that it ID's the card through an ISA probe so shared interrupts are not allowed. >> o Wide SCSI Support >> >> All BusLogic host adapters share a common programming interface, except >> for the inevitable improvements and extensions as new models are >> released, so support for Wide SCSI data transfer has automatically been >> available in existing drivers. This driver adds explicit support for up >> to 16 Device IDs and 64 Logical Units, to fully exploit the capabilities >> of the newest BusLogic Wide SCSI host adapters. >this is not an issue the the BL driver under >FreeBSD but the generic SCSI code. We already support 16 devices.. it's needed >for the wide NCR and adaptec adapters as well. We still don't probe above ID 7. >Having said all that it does highlight the fact that I've been concentrating >on work and not FreeBSD, and that a major SCSI cleanup is becoming >needed.. This seems to happen every 9 months or so. since I wrote it >in 1991, it's been through 5 rewrites and definitly needs a new one about now. >. Peter Dufault and I are discussing many of these issues right now, so feel free to join in. :) >julian -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 13:34:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA12427 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:34:44 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA12421 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:34:41 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA01742; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:34:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199507182034.NAA01742@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol To: Rick Weldon cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:13:27 EDT." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1739.806099666.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:34:26 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Rick Weldon said: > > > On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > > > > o Voice and Fax -- right now my FreeBSD box serves as an answering/fax > > machine . I really like this a lot since I hate answering machines or > > stupid fax machines. Nor scanner though. > > Do you have anything written up on how you are doing this? Even a quick > thing like this is what I am using and the hardware involved if any. I am using a zyxel 1496-E modem... A short write up with the list of packages is available at: rah.star-gate.com:/pub/Voice.faq > > > > o Occasionally, I watched a VideoCD on my box or on TV. > > The other day I gave a demo to an old friend of mine and he sat down > > and watch the whole movie so watch out! Since, I had already seen > > the movie I just kept on typing on my system :) > > How are you pulling this off as well? Just call him Mr. Multimedia. :-) > > My day job I work for the Air Force. We use FreeBSD boxes as mail > gateways, desktop workstations etc... Right now we are setting up a > Multicast network internally for communications between serveral > divisions scattered around the Pentagon. I anticipate using FreeBSD > boxes with GUS cards, mic's etc.... to put out in the user areas for > commo among the offices. They are a wonderfully cheap solution for > this type of stuff. I would be very interested in setting them up > as fax/answering systems that could record mail messages and let the > user play them back on their SUN/FreeBSD mime capable workstation. > Is this far-fetched or even possible? I seem to remember Amancio posting > something like this a while back. Yes, what are you asking is possible and is precisely what I am doing over here. A voice message gets mime encapsulated and sent to my account. My mail reader, exmh, understands mime so I can playback the sound. I used to send mail notification to Bettina at her job saying that we had received a phone message in addition to the actual mime message sent to my account. There is also a shell utility which looks very cool to read voice messages straight from the spool area -- see the Voice.faq on how to contact the author. I expect in about a week or so to release "Bat" which uses RTPv2 the new real time protocol. Bat is just a a vat clone . I want to first try Bat out with a few folks in the multimedia mailing list and to finish up the program. About MPEG, Contact brian@MediaCity.com (Brian Litzinger) he is our MPEG guru or maybe Brian will repost his multimedia post to this mailing list. At any rate, Brian is planning on launching support for MPEG I & II real-time hardware decoding / decoding and H.261 teleconfencing. The X support is not quite there yet mostly due to me. You can also join my multimedia mailing list there is not a lot of traffic right now on that list but a few key people are subscribed to it so you are likely to get good info: mail majordomo@star-gate.com subscribe multimedia > > > Okay, is not rocket science ... > > Sounds like rocket science to me. :-) Tnks! Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 13:47:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA13204 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:47:16 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA13198 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:47:12 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA24717; Tue, 18 Jul 95 14:40:05 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507182040.AA24717@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: UID > 65536 works ? (fwd) To: bugs@ns1.win.net (Mark Hittinger) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 14:40:04 MDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507181742.NAA00760@ns1.win.net> from "Mark Hittinger" at Jul 18, 95 01:42:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Confess your 64 bit needs, as I have. Come clean. > Like in vfs_bios where it does a compare for * > , where we know operator precedence will allow the * result to be , then convert it to for the compare (disabling read ahead for all file ranges > 32 bits)? Or the use of a signed long value for a bitmask being anded with a quad mask value, which just *happens* to work because the high bit is set in the mask and the mask variable is *incorrectly* signed so a sign extension takes place setting all the upper bits to one? The 64 bit code is largely broken in both NetBSD and FreeBSD. Someone with lot of time on their hands needs to go through and check every quad value in the kernel. For filler values in structures, character arrays should be used instead of assuming sizeof(short) == 2 or sizeof(long) == 4; there's even a *quad* being used as filler (GACK). There's also dependence on quad support in the current code, which I guess is OK if we nail ourselves permaently to the cross of GCC. I'd prefer to macroize structure declarations, divides, etc. to ensure portability to "quad-not-supported" environemnts. At the same time, the use of only the long value instead of the quad implies a certain amount of endien-ness: is the high or low order long the MSB of the quad? On Intel, it's the high order (the second long). This bears on, for instance, mounting UFS file systems under DOS. Those kind of "64 bit needs"? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 14:05:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA14699 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:05:22 -0700 Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA14680 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:05:14 -0700 Received: from cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (cappuccino.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.14]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with ESMTP id RAA10299; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:03:49 -0400 Received: (chuckr@localhost) by cappuccino.eng.umd.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) id RAA12641; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:03:48 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:03:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Julian Elischer cc: Fred Cawthorne , peter@bonkers.taronga.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZIP drives In-Reply-To: <199507171728.KAA11434@ref.tfs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Julian Elischer wrote: Do any of you guys have a disktab entry for a zip disk drive, assuming the entire 100 megs is used? > It should work.. > as soon as it can load the disklabel then it trusts that for the > geometry etc. > > > > > > The Iomega ZIP drive looks just big enough to let me install FreeBSD on one, > > > using the live file system CD, to let me do test installs and stuff pretty > > > cheapl ($20 per 100M cartridge). Has anyone any input into this? > > > > > I have used it with a NCR scsi controller and an UltraStor 14f. There > > are some warnings from the NCR controller, but I don't remember seeing > > them with the Ultrastor. > > (When it is probed or a disk is changed, I get: > > sd2(ncr0:6:0): ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB > > sd2 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry > > ) > > > Especially: has anyone used one under FreeBSD, or booted from one? > > > > > I have used it with FreeBSD to store stuff and install from, and I have > > installed FreeBSD and booted from it. You may have to boot from the > > floppy and give it the right root device though. (Depending on what > > your scsi controller does about booting) It makes a nice "emergency" > > system to boot BSD and reformat your hard drive, etc... > > > > Fred. > > > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 (Freebsd 2.0) and n3lxx (301) 220-2114 | (FreeBSD 1.1.5.1) and am I happy! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 14:31:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA15935 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:31:45 -0700 Received: from legend (legend.txdirect.net [204.57.120.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA15927 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:31:42 -0700 Received: from oasis (oasis.txdirect.net) by legend (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02951; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:27:33 -0500 Received: (from rsnow@localhost) by oasis (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02197; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:22:34 -0500 Posted-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:22:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:22:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow To: Jerry Kendall Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: on demand PPP In-Reply-To: <9507182005.AA09015.gonzo@vmicls.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Jerry Kendall wrote: > I can't seem to locate the 'definition' of this. > > I read this as: The ppp interface is always there. The link between > modems is only made when packets are to be sent. > > Is this the case???? > > How do I set up the on demand feature? You might check in the mail archives, I posted a message on setting up demand dialing with iij-ppp a couple of weeks ago. Aim you browser at http://www.freebsd.org and look under mail archives. If you cannot find it I'll be happy to send you mail. --- Rob Snow rsnow@txdirect.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 14:45:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id OAA16764 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:45:40 -0700 Received: from legend (legend.txdirect.net [204.57.120.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA16754 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:45:33 -0700 Received: from oasis (oasis.txdirect.net) by legend (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA03386; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:41:19 -0500 Received: (from rsnow@localhost) by oasis (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA02270; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:32:56 -0500 Posted-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:32:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:32:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Rob Snow To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: apsfiler and text output In-Reply-To: <199507181842.LAA00812@rah.star-gate.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > Anyone out there knows how make apsfilter print listings in an ascending > order? > > Right now I have to re-order the listings by hand... > > If it matters I have an HP Laserjet 5MP (postscript) I dont believe apsfilter will print pages reversed (I assume thats what you want to do, no?) I believe you want to look at psutils in ports. It has several utilities that say they will print in reverse order. In particular you might look at psbook, pstops, psselect. --- Rob Snow rsnow@txdirect.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 15:01:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA17854 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:01:59 -0700 Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA17821 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:01:50 -0700 Received: from genesis by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0sYKha-000jBmC; Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:01 CDT Message-Id: From: mikebo@tellabs.com (Mike Borowiec) Subject: Re: FBSD v2.0.5: NFS to multi-homed server broken? To: questions@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:01:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507181517.AA28706@olympus> from "Boyd Faulkner" at Jul 18, 95 10:17:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1549 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) wrote: > mikebo@tellabs.com (Mike Borowiec) wrote: > > I have found some anomolous NFS behaviour in FreeBSD 2.0.5R. > > > > Problem 1: > > FreeBSD attempts to NFS mount a partition from a multi-homed server not > > on the same ethernet, and the return route from the server to the FreeBSD > > client is via another interface (with a different hostname and IP address). > > If done manually, the mount command can be killed. If the mount is in the > > /etc/fstab file, the machine hangs on startup and must be reset. > > Been there, done that. You need the noconn option. This way, when it comes > back along a different route, there is not a connnection already in force. > I think this is the -c option if you use mount_nfs directly. Anyway, > -o noconn solved the problem for me. > This may work if the portmapper reply port number is non-standard ( != 111/udp ), but having tried numerous combinations of conn, noconn and mount_nfs -c, it appears to me that it does nothing when the portmapper reply is from the proper host, but from a different IP address. Does anyone else have any clue how this works in SunOS? - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec Network Operations Tellabs Operations, Inc. mikebo@TELLABS.COM 1000 Remington Blvd. MS109 708-378-6007 FAX: 708-378-6714 Bolingbrook, IL, USA 60440 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 15:16:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA18514 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:16:06 -0700 Received: from devnull (devnull.mpd.tandem.com [131.124.4.29]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18497 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:16:02 -0700 Received: from olympus by devnull (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA19269; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:15:53 -0500 Received: by olympus (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA29792; Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:15:55 CDT From: faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) Message-Id: <9507182215.AA29792@olympus> Subject: Re: FBSD v2.0.5: NFS to multi-homed server broken? To: mikebo@tellabs.com (Mike Borowiec) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:15:54 -0500 (CDT) Cc: questions@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Mike Borowiec" at Jul 18, 95 05:01:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1729 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > faulkner@mpd.tandem.com (Boyd Faulkner) wrote: > > mikebo@tellabs.com (Mike Borowiec) wrote: > > > I have found some anomolous NFS behaviour in FreeBSD 2.0.5R. > > > > > > Problem 1: > > > FreeBSD attempts to NFS mount a partition from a multi-homed server not > > > on the same ethernet, and the return route from the server to the FreeBSD > > > client is via another interface (with a different hostname and IP address). > > > If done manually, the mount command can be killed. If the mount is in the > > > /etc/fstab file, the machine hangs on startup and must be reset. > > > > Been there, done that. You need the noconn option. This way, when it comes > > back along a different route, there is not a connnection already in force. > > I think this is the -c option if you use mount_nfs directly. Anyway, > > -o noconn solved the problem for me. > > > This may work if the portmapper reply port number is non-standard > ( != 111/udp ), but having tried numerous combinations of conn, noconn > and mount_nfs -c, it appears to me that it does nothing when the > portmapper reply is from the proper host, but from a different IP address. > > Does anyone else have any clue how this works in SunOS? > - Mike > -- Well, it worked for me in 2.0, for exactly the problem you've cited. But this WAS under the guise of amd, the automount daemon. Now I am getting NFS Portmap: RPC: Port mapper failure - RPC: Timed out. If I get this resolved, I'll let you know. amd still works though. Boyd -- _______________________________________________________________________ Boyd Faulkner - faulkner@isd.tandem.com - http://cactus.org/~faulkner _______________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 15:24:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA18833 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:24:03 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA18824 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:23:59 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA15534 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:37:19 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA22428 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:23:36 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16611 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 18 Jul 1995 20:01:39 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id TAA00764 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 19:37:42 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199507181737.TAA00764@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: list dead? or am i dropped? To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 19:37:42 +1596657 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 497 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there Could some kind soul please check if the list is still up and runnin' and whether my address is still on it? There has been some trouble with the IP link to my uucp provider (sighh) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 15:37:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id PAA19456 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:37:20 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA19450 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:37:18 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA26507 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:37:16 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id AAA07401 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:37:15 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507182237.AAA07401@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: list dead? or am i dropped? To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:37:15 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507181737.TAA00764@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jul 18, 95 07:37:42 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 414 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Could some kind soul please check if the list is still up and runnin' and > whether my address is still on it? The list is active and you're still on it : 206 [15:36] roberto@freefall:mail/lists> grep "wilko@yedi.iaf.nl" freebsd-hackers Wilko Bulte -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 16:12:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA20354 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:12:15 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA20347 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:12:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199507182312.QAA20347@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 18 Jul 95 21:26:36 +0200." <199507181926.VAA08300@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:12:13 -0700 From: Joshua Peck Macdonald Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Amancio Hasty Jr.says > This brings about another interesting point what are people doing > with FreeBSD besides kernel hacking or system related work? > scheme scheme scheme, especially STk, emacs, latex, more emacs, C++ homework, I wish there was mathematica sometimes, but I'd probably be too poor to buy it if there was. Then again, sometimes I wish all the software I wanted to use was free. It would be really cool to have a Java port, but I don't think I have enough system-level experience to contribute anything but encouragement to a porting effort. The original question regarded guile, I think it may someday be a very impressive package, but for now its rather unpolished and lacking right now. I know lots of people at school with linux installed using basically the same applications as I do, homework for thier CS classes as well as for a SLIP or PPP connection. The number I know using freebsd is about 5 I think, linux is probably closer to 100. I can't explain that one. -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 16:47:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id QAA21806 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:47:19 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA21794 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:47:11 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA25414; Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:40:10 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507182340.AA25414@cs.weber.edu> Subject: FS MODS TOO BIG FOR LIST -- UPLOAD WHERE? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 17:40:09 MDT Cc: terry@artisoft.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have just completed removal of the BSD mount process dependencies from the FFS/MFS/LFS/CD9660 code. Where do you want the patches and who wants to do the integration and/or code review? In the process of reorganization, I have corrected several errors; in particular, my original patches to MFS had some bogosities mostly due to me copying some bogus "fixes" from one area of MFS to another. WARNING: DO NOT USE THE PREVIOUS MFS PATCHES. THEY WERE BASED ON INITIALLY BUGGY MFS CODE!!! The current code is believed to offer identical functionality to the code it replaces while removing file system specific "frobs" for root mounting of file systems. This is expected to encourage future file system writers to support root mounts immediately by moving the majority of the work they must perform out into common code (vfs_mountroot). Obviously, I'd like to see the MFS and LFS pieces tested (though the LFS piece is in fact trivial). The following files are impacted: /usr/include/sys/kern/vfs_conf.c -- vfs_mountroot routine for cojoined root mounting /usr/include/sys/kern/init_main.c -- pass argument to vfs_mountroot -- TODO: get rid of mountroot function pointer (call vfs_mountroot directly. /usr/include/sys/sys/mount.h -- external global reference for mountrootvfsops -- TODO: get rid of global mountroot function pointer /usr/include/sys/i386/i386/autoconf.c -- modifications for setting of mountrootvfsops -- configuration level support for mounting LFS volumes as the root file system -- TODO: get rid of global mountroot function pointer /usr/include/sys/ufs/ffs/ffs_vfsops.c -- got rid of ffs_mountroot -- added non-common root mount code to ffs_mount -- TODO: merge ffs_mount and ffs_mountfs /usr/include/sys/ufs/lfs/lfs_vfsops.c -- got rid of lfs_mountroot -- stubbed non-common root mount code to lfs_mount -- TODO: merge lfs_mount and lfs_mountfs /usr/include/sys/ufs/mfs/mfs_vfsops.c -- got rid of mfs_mountroot -- added non-common root mount code to mfs_mount -- TODO: merge mfs_mount and (private copy of) ffs_mountfs FUTURE: -- finish LFS root mount code -- add support for new paradigm to: /usr/include/sys/isofs/cd9660/cd9660_vfsops.c /usr/include/sys/nfs/nfs_vfsops.c -- add root mount support code (new paradigm) to: /usr/include/sys/msdosfs/msdosfs_vfsops.c /usr/include/sys/ufs/lfs/lfs_vfsops.c -- move all file system related code to a subdirectory so that the file system may be replaced wholesale: /usr/include/sys/vfs/ at the same time, the vfs_* files in kern should be moved as well. -- rewrite mount system call -- rewrite user space mount utilitie(s) -- provide general support for file systems as drop-in modules (both kernel and user space pieces) -- Linux UMSDOSFS -- Linux EXT2FS (?) -- OS/2 HPFS (?) -- NTFS (?) Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 18:01:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA25555 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:01:02 -0700 Received: from lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw [140.109.7.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA25538 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:00:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199507190100.SAA25538@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: by lin.wsl.sinica.edu.tw (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA02749; Wed, 19 Jul 95 08:50:24 +0800 From: Yen-Wei Liu Subject: Re: root device on wd1a (was: help!...) To: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (Christoph P. Kukulies) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 8:50:24 EAT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507121103.NAA07382@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>; from "Christoph P. Kukulies" at Jul 12, 95 1:03 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > First off: > goofing from my side - I forgot to configure wd1 on controller wdc0 drive 1. > Shame on me. > After fixing that and configuring a kernel with root on wd1a > I still could not mount /dev/ws1s1e and swap on /dev/ws1s1b ... > After I changed the fstab entries to /dev/wd1a /, /dev/wd1b swap and > /dev/wd1e /usr it work correctly. I didn't notice your previous mail, so maybe I misinterpreted your words here. Did you re-compile kernel and failed to mount root and swap afterwards ? In this case, you are not alone; this happened to me twice, on two different machines. The new device names didn't work and I had to change them back to the 2.0R device names. -- Yen-Wei Liu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 18:20:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA26653 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:20:14 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA26644 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:20:11 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.3) id VAA00365; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:21:10 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199507190121.VAA00365@hda.com> Subject: Re: SCSI drivers To: root@freefall.cdrom.com (& freefall.cdrom.com) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, stratlif@grail.cba.csuohio.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507182014.NAA11391@freefall.cdrom.com> from "& freefall.cdrom.com" at Jul 18, 95 01:14:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2448 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk & freefall.cdrom.com writes: ... (I guess that is Justin's new name; I know he went to a wedding but I didn't think it was his) I started to prepare a response to this, and seeing the that there is some interest I'll fire away. In particular, anybody thinking about scsi code should think of how we can properly layer it so that the policy is dictated from above, and where that breaks down. Here it is: > > o Error Recovery > > This driver implements extensive error recovery procedures. When the > higher level parts of the SCSI subsystem request that a command be reset, > a bus device reset is first sent to the target device. If two bus device > resets have been attempted and no command to the device has completed > successfully, then a host adapter hard reset and SCSI bus reset is > performed. SCSI bus resets caused by other devices and detected by the > host adapter are also handled by issuing a hard reset to the host adapter > and full reinitialization. This strategy should improve overall system > robustness by preventing individual errant devices from causing the > system as a whole to lockup or crash, and thereby allowing a clean > shutdown and restart after the offending component is removed. I have one overall comment which is that policy should be handled at the common level and not the lower ones. If the policy on device hangups is "after two bus device resets reset the device, then reset the board, and then reset the bus" then it should be driven by calls down from the common code and not decided upon in a single low level driver. Another observation is that you'll have outstanding work going on on the bus. You'll have to resubmit these transactions after resetting the SCSI bus. Some transactions will not make sense to resubmit, such as an aborted tape write. Of course this could be a proof of concept that will then be implemented in a more uniform fashion, and the author may have addressed these issues. I sent out a summary of an error strategy a little while ago, and the consensus was that it was 2.2 material because of the changes involved. It included suspending the activity on the scsi bus to let as much I/O as possible drain before resetting the bus and trying to pick things up again. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 18:53:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA27669 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:53:56 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA27662 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:53:55 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id SAA19840; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:53:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:53:54 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199507190153.SAA19840@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fyi.. Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!laika!johnh From: johnh@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (John Heidemann) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc Subject: Re: Round Robin DNS?? Date: 17 Jul 95 20:04:57 GMT Organization: University of California, Los Angeles Lines: 52 Message-ID: References: <3uai48$2bq@lace.Colorado.EDU> <3uect4$mf8@park.uvsc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: laika.cs.ucla.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0.b3.0 #11 (NOV) Terry Lambert writes: >sryashur@sprint.uccs.edu (Surf-Kahuna) wrote: >] >] Ok, here's the concept: You have say, 3 machines all running >] a web server. (Let's assume your company is *SO* profitable >] that you actually need all three to handle the load) >] >] The problem: how to effectively ballance out the load of the >] WWW trffic among all three machines. >] >] The solution (at least one of them): a DNS server that >] alternates between the three IP addresses of the machines >] everytime it is queried for say, www.mycompany.com. >] ... > >This assumes (wrongly) that there will be a constant average >session length between servers. > >This would *probably* work adequately *if* you didn't end up >with a local cached copy of the host address that then gets >reused on your machine without "benefit" of the round robin. > >The *real* problem is that the protocols are designed to attach >to hosts instead of services. Consider: do you really give a >damn *where* the next HTML page comes from so long as it arrives? Terry is right, of course it would be better to do load balancing at a higher level. He also understates the problems: session lengths have odd distributions (probably bimodal) and many DNS servers cache names/address translations *after* the RR translation. However, for web sites with sufficiently large numbers of hits, the law of large numbers states that things should even out. RR DNS does HTTP load balancing pretty well in practice. Check out the following refernce for what they do at NCSA: @Unpublished{Kwan95a, author = "Thomas T. Kwan and Robert E. McGrath and Daniel A. Reed", title = "User Access Pattersn to {NCSA's} World Wide Web Server", note = "from web", year = 1995, keywords = "WWW, trace", url = "http://www-pablo.cs.uiuc.edu/Papers/WWW.ps.Z" } [This article may have been published by now. If so, let me know where.] -John Heidemann From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 20:27:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA00595 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 20:27:04 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA00587 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 20:27:03 -0700 Received: from kksys.skypoint.net (kksys.skypoint.net [199.86.32.5]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id UAA16161 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 20:26:59 -0700 Received: from starfire.mn.org by kksys.skypoint.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0sYPUE-0003AgC; Tue, 18 Jul 95 22:07 CDT Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.8/1.2.1) id WAA14174 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:20:18 -0500 From: John Lind Message-Id: <199507190320.WAA14174@starfire.mn.org> Subject: FreeBSD 2.x may not run on Cyrix 486DL To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:20:17 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 753 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have tried images to boot FreeBSD 2.0R, 2.0.5R, and 2.0.5-950622-SNAP on my 33Mhz Cyrix 486DL which is currently running FreeBSD 1.1, and none of them have worked. 2.0R hangs before the "Testing Memory" message, and the 2.0.5 versions reboot right before the Copyright message (right after uncompressing done and booting kernel). I have tried all three boot images on my 386, and the images themselves seem fine. (I have tried to disable the cache, but that breaks this system very badly for some unknown reason...) Should I bite the bullet and get a 486 MB and an Intel chip, or is there some way I can contribute to resolving this? John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 21:19:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA02903 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:19:21 -0700 Received: from genesis.nred.ma.us (genesis.tiac.net [204.180.76.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA02896 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:19:19 -0700 Received: by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id AAA06577; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:19:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:19:12 -0400 From: steve2@genesis.nred.ma.us (Steve Gerakines) Message-Id: <199507190419.AAA06577@genesis.nred.ma.us> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: XFree86 and swap Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > In the meantime, is there a version of XF86_SVGA kicking around that's been > > linked with gnumalloc? I could really use it as my system seems to be on > > a killing spree lately. :-) > > > Just get the XF86 linkkit, you can build your own server linked with > gnumalloc. This only requires a few MB of diskspace. Yes I know, but if it's already sitting on an FTP site somewhere it's one less thing I need to do. Besides, I would guess I'm not the only one it would be useful for, so it might be nice if someone could make it available. - Steve steve2@genesis.tiac.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 22:14:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA04951 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:14:45 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA04942 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:14:42 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA24097 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4); Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:14:37 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id IAA14160; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:14:40 +0300 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:14:40 +0300 Message-Id: <199507190514.IAA14160@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Joshua Peck Macdonald Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: Joshua Peck Macdonald's message of 19 Jul 1995 02:16:25 +0300 Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk classes as well as for a SLIP or PPP connection. The number I know using freebsd is about 5 I think, linux is probably closer to 100. I can't explain that one. I can. Linux people have got distributions; two hours and you got everything on disk, including TeX, emacs, doom and everything. There is no need to select between at least three different variants of BSD. Add unbeatable stability records when used in end-user workstations and lots of masses using Linux. There are other more subtle reasons, but those are far enough. We currently use about 15 PC's running FreeBSD as routers and servers, but the user workstations and personnel's home machines are Linux. The main reasons for using FreeBSD here is Linux networking code (sigh) and non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone as long as the longest uptimes are weeks. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 22:40:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA05936 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:40:34 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA05914 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:40:23 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA07810; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:25:01 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507190555.PAA07810@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 15:25:00 +0930 (CST) Cc: jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507190514.IAA14160@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jul 19, 95 08:14:40 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2120 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu stands accused of saying: > I know using freebsd is about 5 I think, linux is probably closer > to 100. I can't explain that one. > > I can. Linux people have got distributions; two hours and you got > everything on disk, including TeX, emacs, doom and everything. There is no > need to select between at least three different variants of BSD. Add I know I'm preaching to the converted here, but this is ridiculous. It takes an awful lot less than two hours to get all of that (excepting perhaps DOOM 8) up under FreeBSD; and that aspect has little or nothing to do with the Linux:FBSD ratio. Image is the question. Like graffiti and american basketball, Linux is K00L, and while it's K00L, it'll "sell", technical issues have little or nothing to do with it. > unbeatable stability records when used in end-user workstations and lots of > masses using Linux. There are other more subtle reasons, but those are far > enough. That, again, is arguable. In my experience, in any given situation a well-configured FBSD system will survive longer than an equivalently configured Linux system, whether it be routing, NFS serving, running interactive users, or as a development workstation. Granted, Linux seems to perform better in resource-starved environments. > non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets > hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone as > long as the longest uptimes are weeks. I don't know anyone around here other than Linux fanatics that would claim that FreeBSD was unstable; all of the major PA sites run (and swear by) FreeBSD. (except a couple on Sun hardware 8) > Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 22:49:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA07312 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:49:27 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA07301 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:49:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199507190549.WAA07301@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: Joshua Peck Macdonald , freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 95 08:14:40 +0300." <199507190514.IAA14160@shadows.cs.hut.fi> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:49:16 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > classes as well as for a SLIP or PPP connection. The number > I know using freebsd is about 5 I think, linux is probably closer > to 100. I can't explain that one. > >I can. Linux people have got distributions; two hours and you got >everything on disk, including TeX, emacs, doom and everything. How is this not true for the 2.0.5 release? Perhaps doom is not in the ports collection, but we have some 280 different pre-built packages that were released in conjunction with the 2.0.5 release including TeX and emacs. >There is no >need to select between at least three different variants of BSD. But there is a need to chose a distribution of linux. >Add >unbeatable stability records when used in end-user workstations and lots of >masses using Linux. There are other more subtle reasons, but those are far >enough. I read this as stability under light load. This is like saying that your car never hits trees, but you only leave it idling in the driveway. :) >We currently use about 15 PC's running FreeBSD as routers and servers, but >the user workstations and personnel's home machines are Linux. The main >reasons for using FreeBSD here is Linux networking code (sigh) and >non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets >hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone as >long as the longest uptimes are weeks. Are you saying that your servers only have uptimes measured in weeks or that FreeBSD performing in a workstation role similar to where you have Linux machines is not as stable? How do you make your FreeBSD machines fail? Do you submit problem reports detailing the problems you encouter via send-pr? I'm not trying to imply that FreeBSD is super stable, but I do find it more stable and reliable under heavy load than Linux. I also point out that we can only fix the bugs that are reported to us. >-- >Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, >hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 22:59:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA07659 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:59:12 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07641 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:59:05 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA13823; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:03:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:03:57 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507190603.XAA13823@lightlink.satcom.net> To: jim@reptiles.org, wpaul@skynet.cdrom.com Subject: Re: getpwent() YP/NIS bugu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I have the same problem too. I use +:*:0:0:::::: instead of +::::::::: The real problem of this I cannot find this in any documentation that comes with FreeBSD. Documentation this certainly would help promote FreeBSD. Little thing can makes a big different. I cannot tell you in words how frustrated I was while I cannot make NIS works right. I have UnixWare, AIX running NIS in my office. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 23:37:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA08716 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:37:31 -0700 Received: from scylla.sovam.com (scylla.sovam.com [192.216.212.97]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA08695 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:37:21 -0700 Received: from arminco.aic.net by scylla.sovam.com with SMTP id AA20008 (5.67b8s3p1/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:15:32 +0400 Subject: PowerPC info To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:05:14 +0400 (MMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 8253 From: edd@arminco.com Message-Id: <9507191005.aa19844@arminco.arminco.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, someone sometime ago asked me for info about PowerPC. Excuse me for so long delay :-). The following is the issue of the PowerPC Global News. With metta, -edd (edd@ns.aic.net) > ============================<<>>========================== > The Electronic News Magazine for the Internet > World Wide Web server at http://power.globalnews.com/ > *** July 17th, 1995: Vol. 2, No.34*** > circulation: 50,000 > > > _____________________ COMMERCIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS _____________________ > | (**=new or updated copy) | > | | > | 6000) SevOne Announces Powerful $199 AIX SysAdmin Tool ** | > | 4991) JAM6 from JYACC - a graphical Client/Server tool | > | 4992) New Release: Metrowerks CodeWarrior 6 ** | > | 4993) PowerPC Open Firmware evaluation software from Firmworks | > | 4997) Motorola PowerPC Microprocessors | > |____________________________________________________________________| > > ===================================================================== > For full text of stories mail:news@power.globalnews.com > COMPLETE DETAILS ON RETRIEVING FULL TEXT OF ITEMS IN POWERPC NEWS > ARE AT THE END OF THIS ISSUE > ======================================================================= > > ==== POWERPC NEWS: (use story no. 1999 to retrieve whole section) ===== > > 1380) LINUX DEBUTS ON POWERPC - BUT POWER MAC PORT IS STILL THWARTED > The first working Linux kernel for PowerPC has been made available. > The first cut of the freeware Unix runs on Motorola's 603-based VME > machine. The Power Mac development still awaits I/O information. > > 1381) ANOTHER CHRP TRANSITION IN THE PIPELINE AS MAC ROMS SET TO GO > Will CHRP machines need Apple ROMs to run Mac OS? To begin with they > will, so manufacturers who want to get into the market early will need > ROM sockets. But this will change with Copland. > > 1382) Network Computing Devices puts PC-Xware on NT for PowerPC > 1383) IBM Microkernel keeps marching - this time into Taiwan > 1384) Apple US prepares new 603-based Performas - in the wake of Europe > 1385) Motorola Q2 profits jump on increased turnover > > ===== COMPUTERWIRE:(use story no. 2999 to retrieve whole section) ===== > > 2271) IBM adopts Aimtech's IconAuthor > 2272) Philips outlines global chip industry aims > 2273) Online Bank: Chemical majors on Microsoft Money > 2274) Rambus fast memory is star of Silicon Graphics Impact > 2275) Oracle, nCube and Apple package interactive TV trial kit > 2276) AMD hurt by K5 delay > 2277) NEC plans assault on plasma display screen market > > > ==== FEATURES AND ANALYSIS ============================================ > > 3085) FEEDBACK: > IBM talks about those 604 benchmark speeds. > > ==== POWERPC RESOURCES================================================= > > 4000) Frequently Asked Questions > Derek B Noonburg's wide-ranging FAQ list from comp.sys.powerpc > last updated June 30th* > > 4001) Clock-Chipping The Macintosh > Marc Schrier's fact sheet, in HTML format, from sumex.stanford.edu on > how to replace your Mac's oscillator for something speedier. Not for > the nervous. > > ======================================================================== > --- FREE SUBSCRIPTION TO TELECOMS NEWSLINE --- > > PowerPC News readers can get their FREE subscription to TELECOMS > NEWSLINE by mailing: > mailme@power.globalnews.com (no message required). > > ======= COMMERCIAL INFORMATION========================================== > (*=New this issue, **=Updated or changed copy) > > 4988) VxWorks 5.2 from Wind River Systems > 4997) Motorola PowerPC Microprocessors > 4998) LynxOS(TM) - Real-time PowerPC operating system > 4990) Open Microsystems DistribuTAPE - transparent access to > remote tape drives > 4991) JAM6 from JYACC - a graphical Client/Server tool > for PowerPC. Free demo kit for Mac or Windows. > 4992) New Release: Metrowerks CodeWarrior 6 - the only pure native > PowerMac development environment ** > 4993) PowerPC Open Firmware evaluation software available from > Firmworks > 4994) FREE IBM Direct product catalogues > 4999) Power Micro Research - PowerPC hardware & software engineering > services > 6000) SevOne Announces Powerful $199 AIX SysAdmin Tool * > > INFORMATION ABOUT FREE TRIALS TO LEADING PUBLICATIONS > 5000) Computergram international - the world's leading computer daily > 5001) Unigram/X - the weekly newsletter for the Unix community > 5002) Network Week - the weekly datacoms and telecoms bulletin > 5003) Computer Finance - analysing the real cost of computing > 5004) Software Futures - exploring software development > 5005) Computer Business Review - the global business analysis title > 5006) ClieNT Server News - the newspaper for Windows NT watchers > 5020) IBM System User - the UK'S leading IBM magazine > 5030) Unix News - the UK'S leading Unix magazine > 5032) Webster - a twice monthly e-zine covering the World Wide Web > -o- > > SPECIAL REPORTS/PUBLICATIONS/SEMINARS AVAILABLE > FROM APT DATA Services Plc > 5099) The Internet Business Briefings, London, April 28th, May 31st and > June 28th, Manchester, May 10th, 1995. > 5100) Individual reports on the Economics of: Software Projects, > Client Server Computing, PC Networking, and Outsourcing. > 5150) The Computer Industry Guide - guide to leading computer companies > 5151) Computer Industry lists - UK AS400, RS6000, Mainframe and Unix > > FROM MALOFF & ASSOCIATES > 5120) 1993-'94 Internet Service Provider Marketplace Report > > FROM INPUT, INC. > 5130) Object-oriented platforms for client/server computing > -o- > POWERPC NEWS > 7000) How to publish your information in this section of PowerPC News > 7001) PowerPC News who are we? How are we funded? > 7002) PowerPC News now available on world wide web > 7003) FREE listings in on-line PowerPC Resource Guide > > COMPUTER BOOKSTORE > 8500) Introduction > 8501) Extract from 'THE WHOLE INTERNET USERS GUIDE & CATALOG' > 8502) Information on selected additional computer titles > 8504) Extract from 'INSIDE THE POWERPC REVOLUTION' > 8505) Extract from 'ZEN OF CODE OPTIMIZATION' > 8506) Extract from 'WRITING FCODE PROGRAMS FOR PCI' > > * COMPUTER JOBS * COMPUTER JOBS * COMPUTER JOBS * COMPUTER JOBS * > 9000) Publishing job announcements in PowerPC News > 9001) Positions available - new vacancies in this issue > > ======================================================================= > Internet access is provided for PowerPC News > by BT, a leader in world-wide communications > ======================================================================= > > TO RETRIEVE FULL TEXT OF ITEMS IN POWERPC NEWS > Send an e-mail message to news@power.globalnews.com > Place in the SUBJECT of your message the item numbers of the items > you wish to receive. For example: > To: news@power.globalnews.com > Subject: 1000 1008 3000 > Your e-mail address will be picked up automatically. > > TO GET A BACK-ISSUE INDEX, SELECT STORY 6500 > TO SUBSCRIBE TO POWERPC NEWS - mail add@power.globalnews.com > TO UNSUBSCRIBE - mail remove@power.globalnews.com > *** ANY TEXT IN THE MESSAGE IS IGNORED *** > > MAIL PROBLEMS?: If you are having any problems retrieving stories or > removing yourself from the list please: > mail admin@power.globalnews.com > EDITORIAL COMMENTS or questions: > mail chrisr@power.globalnews.com > TO FIND OUT ABOUT ADVERTISING in PowerPC News > mail andyh@power.globalnews.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Copyright 1995 PowerPC News. This publication is free for the Internet > community and may be reposted without restriction. -- Edgar Der-Danieliantz "All that we are is the result of what we have thought."-Buddha. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 23:52:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA09154 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:52:44 -0700 Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA09148 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:52:42 -0700 Received: by saul4.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.05/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA16361; Tue, 18 Jul 95 23:52:30 -0700 X-Sender: spaz@saul4.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:52:29 -0700 (PDT) From: John Utz To: Ed Hudson Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, elh@spnet.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD Killer Apps (was Re: TCL vs...) In-Reply-To: <199507181651.JAA05380@p54c.spnet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello Ed ! Really nice to hear from you on this subject! On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, Ed Hudson wrote: > > howdy. > > i'm not certain this is appropriate for > this news group... Damn right it's appropriate! it is a mailing list, tho... umm unless this is gated onto usenet.. :-) > i build ic cad applications (original work), and > use FreeBSD as my primary development platform... YIPPEE! it is great to here that stuff near and dear to my heart is being done on freebsd... > sadly, all of my distributions (sales) are to IRIX and > SunOS platforms (to date)... i'm trying to talk a major > cad vendor into making their primary product available > under FreeBSD... the answer is (so far) 'when we > can get FlexLM support, then maybe we'll proceed...' > > FlexLM is a license manager/library application > that most IC cad vendors use. as such, it maybe > a critical 'sub-application' Yes, i think u are hitting a *really* important point here! It is these kind of really boring, obnoxious little detail applications that are probably key to gaining commercial acceptance. It has been my experience that commercial ee type applications have always been at bleeding edge of software copy control, at least in the dos realm. The first time i ever heard of a "dongle" ( those little doolybobs that plug into the parrallel port and allow the software to work ) was in conjunction with orcad or tango ( commercial circuit design and pcb layout tools ). I think the high cost and high utility of these packages made the temptation to bootleg them well nigh irresistable ( why do u think i found out what a damn dongle was? :-) ) I can also state with confidence that verilog's mom and dad are very heavy into license management. On the ee network this spring we had a major crisis when the number of students with verilog assignments due the following monday exceeded the number of legal seats... a major bummer was had by all... > i know of at least one vlsi design startup here > in silicon valley that uses NetBSD for running > significant logic simulation regressions on a > large array of pentia's (private verilog2c) > (i know of a couple of other startups considering a > similar methodology - i'm trying to steer them to > FreeBSD). > > i know of several people using FreeBSD boxes as > X-terminals for isdn links to their work places > (again, sadly, i know more people using linux > for this, so far... but hope this will change > as people try to actually run local compiles instead > of just X - they'll want a more SunOS like environment) I think this is true, I can point out that i use -DSUN as a compilation flag first choice when i come across something ( usually ee applications oddly enuf :-) ) that has been ported to the usual suspects and linux, but not net or freebsd. I got a linux-pusher ( i am sorry about the potential flamish verbage, but it is a fact, i find a noticeable number of linux users seem to think that if u are running a pub os other then linux, then u must be ignorant or stupid ) really pissed off when i pointed out to him that when i attempted to take a linux port of the ic design package magic over to freebsd it took 3 weeks of fruitless labor before i got in touch with the developer and found the original source, which i had compiled in two days and running in a couple of days after that ( this was on 115 0r 20, i forget which ) > FreeBSD is just missing a couple of key applications > to be generally usefull as an ic-development environment > commercially (ie, commercial use of public domain, > or near-public-domain (university) (eg, spice3) tools). Umm, what exactly are u saying here? I read u as saying that the tools dont exist? Then u mention that it does? There is spice3f4 ( and there is an amazingly stupid hack that u can only find if u debug it to find the comment that tells u what environment variable to create to prevent it from dumping core ). There is magic, which is a full fledged real estate editor. It is slightly less then perfectly optimized, however. My personal favorite is the chipmunk tools. They completely rock!!! It is a collection of digital and analog drag and drop graphical design and simulation tools. I f*n love it! I predesign my circuits for school and then print the schematic out via ghostcript. > in particular, a good public-domain verilog is needed > the most (i understand that such an effort is underway > at stanford?) There is probably several various efforts in several various locations :-)... The one i am most familiar with is not currently functional with FreeBSD only because *i* can't get SWI-prolog to save any worlds! grr! This is a problem with the unique nature of prolog in general ( a prolog "program" appears to not be a neat, tidy sequence of instructions. it appears to be a literal copy of the address space in memory it was using at the time it decided it was finished doing something. i dont really know. i do know that SWI-prolog compiles and that Prasad's vhdl parser compiles, but that nothing can happen because it cant find anything ( sigh ). This is one of my big projects after i finally get my box recompiled with dlmalloc.... > for many of the univeristy tools, ports exist, but > there's no central distribution available. for many > of these university tools in the USA, such as spice3, > there are hold-over export restrictions that are about > as bad as DES. Umm is this a clarification of your previous statement? For us us folk it is not that big of a problem, eh? I dont think it gets in the way of for profit use..... > -elh > anyway it is really great to hear from u about this. I love running all this stuff under freebsd, and the output from chipmunk was the first thing i was able to show anybody over at the uw college of ee that ever sparked any interest from my fellow classmates ( well , that *and* the ability to run verilog over the phone and get a display up at home! ) let me know what u think! ******************************************************************************* John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu idiocy is the impulse function in the convolution of life From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jul 18 23:59:45 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA09339 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:59:45 -0700 Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09331 ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:58:59 -0700 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA09555; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:57:10 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199507190657.IAA09555@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:57:10 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507190514.IAA14160@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jul 19, 95 08:14:21 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 866 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets > hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone as > long as the longest uptimes are weeks. I see consistently uptimes of 50+ days on all our server/workstations. These system only crash when there is a power outage (no UPSs here). One of these systems is a mail/www server for our student (>600 accounts) and a firewall for our computer lab. Same uptime as above. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 00:32:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA10391 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:32:37 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA10384 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:32:17 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA08032; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:15:43 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507190745.RAA08032@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Killer Apps (was Re: TCL vs...) To: spaz@u.washington.edu (John Utz) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:15:42 +0930 (CST) Cc: elh_fbsd@spnet.com, hackers@freebsd.org, elh@spnet.com In-Reply-To: from "John Utz" at Jul 18, 95 11:52:29 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1601 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk John Utz stands accused of saying: > My personal favorite is the chipmunk tools. They completely > rock!!! It is a collection of digital and analog drag and drop graphical > design and simulation tools. I f*n love it! I predesign my circuits for > school and then print the schematic out via ghostcript. I've actually been quietly waiting for the next annual round of patches for the Chipmunk suite so that I could learn to roll a port 8) I use these tools for digital simulations; the drag-n-drop stuff, as well as the programming language for the modules is great; I can code up PLDs & test them logically without spending hours crouched over the analyser. (If you're into masochism, have a look at the source; it's derived from machine-translated Pascal. Ugh.) What I'd kill for is an integrated schematic-PCB package, but they're no fun to write, and even less fun to support, so I don't hold a lot of hope. (Has anyone tried to do anything serious with the PCB program in the ports collection? Last time I built it, the resultant program killed my window manager, so I put it away 8) (It appears to be a port of an old Atari ST program, and that was _bad_, IIRC) > John Utz spaz@stein.u.washington.edu -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 01:04:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA11351 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 01:04:05 -0700 Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA11342 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 01:03:58 -0700 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA12680; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:00:43 +0200 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199507190800.KAA12680@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Killer Apps (was Re: TCL vs...) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:00:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: spaz@u.washington.edu, elh_fbsd@spnet.com, hackers@freebsd.org, elh@spnet.com In-Reply-To: <199507190745.RAA08032@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 19, 95 05:15:42 pm Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 714 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > > What I'd kill for is an integrated schematic-PCB package, but they're > no fun to write, and even less fun to support, so I don't hold a lot > of hope. Yep. Thought about it once and dismissed that thought very quickly. > (Has anyone tried to do anything serious with the PCB program > in the ports collection? Last time I built it, the resultant program > killed my window manager, so I put it away 8) (It appears to be a port of > an old Atari ST program, and that was _bad_, IIRC) I built it once but thought it was unusable on my FPU-less 386 with 14" monitor at home, so I still use easyedit (boot DOS from A:, use the PCB program from B:; there's no DOS on my harddisks.). tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 01:41:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA13437 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 01:41:24 -0700 Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA13322 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 01:40:54 -0700 Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA12770; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:40:49 +0200 From: Thomas Gellekum Message-Id: <199507190840.KAA12770@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com (Joshua Peck Macdonald) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:40:48 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507182312.QAA20347@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Joshua Peck Macdonald" at Jul 18, 95 04:12:13 pm Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 421 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joshua Peck Macdonald wrote: > It would be > really cool to have a Java port, but I don't think I have enough > system-level experience to contribute anything but encouragement > to a porting effort. I have never seen the question actually answered: is anyone working on a port? What kind of experience is required (if _you_ say you don't have enough system-level experience I probably shouldn't be asking this)? tg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 02:05:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA16859 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:05:20 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA16849 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:05:11 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sYV10-000I3iC; Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:02 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0sYUkJ-00001FC; Wed, 19 Jul 95 10:44 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:44:47 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3515 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, as Justin just wrote, the core team can only fix bugs it knows about, so: I experience 2 types of total system hangs under 2.0.5-Release, 1) in an xterm, while scrolling, the system sometimes and totally unreproducable just hangs. This seems to occur more often the smaller the used font and/or the larger the xterm is, or better the more amount to scroll. This also happened from time to time under 1.1.5.1 and was one of the reasons i wanted to upgrade. When this happens, the machine is totally frozen so there is not even a chance to look from another side into the machine. 2) Disk i/o hangs, sometimes with the access LED on the controller on, some- times off. The machine is operational as long as one does not "touch" the disks, so i would be able to search for something if someone would tell me where to search and what to search for. 3) lpt0 is sometimes not found, sometimes it is found during probe. It was always found under 1.1.5.1. The machine is a 486DX2 EISA machine manufactured by Kyocera: FreeBSD 2.0.5-RELEASE #0: Tue Jul 18 22:07:24 MET DST 1995 root@ernie.altona.hamburg.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/ERNIE CPU: i486 DX2 (486-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x435 Stepping=5 Features=0x3 real memory = 16384000 (4000 pages) avail memory = 14864384 (3629 pages) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 maddr 0xcc000 msize 16384 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:ea:7e:65, type WD8013EPC (16 bit) bpf: ed0 attached vt0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard vt0: s3 928, 80/132 col, color, 8 scr, mf2-kbd, [R3.30] sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A sio2 at 0x3e8-0x3ef irq 5 on isa sio2: type 16550A sio3 at 0x2e8-0x2ef irq 7 on isa sio3: type 16450 lpt0 not found at 0xffffffff fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in ahb0: reading board settings, int=11 ahb0 at 0x4000-0x40ff irq 11 on eisa slot 4 (ahb0:0:0): "QUANTUM MAVERICK 540S 0901" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahb0:0:0): Direct-Access 516MB (1057758 512 byte sectors) sd0(ahb0:0:0): with 2853 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 92 sectors/track (ahb0:1:0): "QUANTUM LPS540S 5900" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahb0:1:0): Direct-Access 516MB (1057616 512 byte sectors) sd1(ahb0:1:0): with 2740 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 96 sectors/track (ahb0:2:0): "MICROP 2112-15MQ1086403 HQ48" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2(ahb0:2:0): Direct-Access 1001MB (2051615 512 byte sectors) sd2(ahb0:2:0): with 1760 cyls, 15 heads, and an average 77 sectors/track ahb1: reading board settings, int=12 ahb1 at 0x5000-0x50ff irq 12 on eisa slot 5 (ahb1:5:0): "TOSHIBA CD-ROM XM-3401TA 2873" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(ahb1:5:0): CD-ROM cd present.[264427 x 2048 byte records] (ahb1:6:0): "ARCHIVE VIPER 2525 25462 -011" type 1 removable SCSI 1 st0(ahb1:6:0): Sequential-Access density code 0x0, drive empty npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ups0 at 0xc06 on motherboard ups0: Kyocera EP7000 UPS driver 1.20, status byte = 0x2d ups0: - battery was full at power-up time ups0: - battery is currently empty ups0: - system running from AC power bpf: lo0 attached bpf: tun0 attached bpf: tun1 attached If i didn't had this symptoms, it were a really nice OS, very very well done, core team !!! hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 02:16:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA17512 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:16:44 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17503 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:16:42 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA02284; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:15:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199507190915.CAA02284@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Thomas Gellekum cc: jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com (Joshua Peck Macdonald), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:40:48 +0200." <199507190840.KAA12770@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:15:24 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Thomas Gellekum said: > Joshua Peck Macdonald wrote: > > It would be > > really cool to have a Java port, but I don't think I have enough > > system-level experience to contribute anything but encouragement > > to a porting effort. > > I have never seen the question actually answered: is anyone working > on a port? What kind of experience is required (if _you_ say you > don't have enough system-level experience I probably shouldn't be > asking this)? > > tg A quick search showed that there is a Linux mailing list and an Ftp site for the linux work. substance.blackdown.org:/pub/Java/linux There was a reference to Nat Williams for porting the Sun-style Makefiles to gnu-style Makefiles. So I am wondering if anyone out there is holding back info on the current java port for FreeBSD :) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 07:10:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA24926 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 07:10:13 -0700 Received: from ns1.win.net (ns1.win.net [204.215.209.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA24920 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 07:10:08 -0700 Received: (from bugs@localhost) by ns1.win.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA02302; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:14:55 -0400 From: Mark Hittinger Message-Id: <199507191414.KAA02302@ns1.win.net> Subject: Large site patches for Taylor-UUCP To: hackers@freebsd.org, taylor-uucp@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:14:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 7966 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Here is a list of what I did to make Taylor UUCP 1.05 run in a large environment under FreeBSD. By large I mean around 100 megabytes of email a day, several hundred megabytes of news a day, thousands of users, and lots of calls. The problems appear to be generic, and the solutions within are probably of good use no matter which version of Unix you live with :-). I ran into the following three distinct problems: 1. Taylor UUCP took a lot of cycles to read and parse my 'sys' file which was almost 300K. I wrote some short patches to allow a default system. If the system desired is not in the 'sys' file then we use the default entry. Now the 'sys' file is 567 bytes. Big difference. 2. Our WinNet-UK partner made me aware that each time uuxqt was invoked it scanned the entire uucp tree looking for work. They supplied me with patches to force uuxqt to run for a single target user only. You have to double check things later with a scavenger uuxqt process that finds unrun X files. Big difference. 3. Mail delivery to a uucp user took longer than the receipt of the mail itself. I modified the system to always queue incoming internet mail. I use smap/smapd (TIS) and smapd is modified to do "sendmail -odq". I modified rmail to always queue mail ( -DQUEUE_ONLY ). This prevents an incoming mail pulse from overwelming your swap space and process limits. Big difference at the peak load periods. The combination of these three problems cause the uucp server to die during the peak load periods, and provide poor service otherwise. With the enclosed patches everything is fast, everybody is happy, and they leave me alone! :-) Caveats: The diffs are against the FreeBSD variant of the Taylor-UUCP 1.05 tree. The patches only work for Taylor config files. The patches are not for all Unix systems! They work for FreeBSD, and are small enough that if you have another Unix box you can figure out what to do. The patches were done in panic mode with a system under duress. I needed to solve my problem fast. Patch set 1 : Allow a "default" system -------------------------------------- Example last lines of "sys" file. A default system for everybody and a special entry for the special case. system default protocol-parameter g timeout 20 protocol-parameter g retries 10 protocol-parameter g init-timeout 1 protocol-parameter g packet-size 64 system hotlanta called-login hotlanta protocol-parameter g timeout 20 protocol-parameter g retries 10 protocol-parameter g init-timeout 1 protocol-parameter g packet-size 4096 File: ./common_sources/uuconf.h (add a boolean to signify that the entry was the default one) *** uuconf.h_org Fri Oct 21 23:51:22 1994 --- uuconf.h Tue Jul 18 10:37:38 1995 *************** *** 191,192 **** --- 191,194 ---- char *uuconf_zalternate; + /* If non-zero, this was the default sys entry */ + int uuconf_fdefault ; /* If non-zero, this alternate may be used for calling out. */ File: ./libuuconf/sinfo.c (If the system isn't found, make sure it is in the berkeley db'd password file and make sure it is a uucp user. If it is, then use the default entry) *** sinfo.org Sat Jul 8 15:08:24 1995 --- sinfo.c Tue Jul 18 11:09:14 1995 *************** *** 26,27 **** --- 26,29 ---- #include "uucnfi.h" + #include + #include *************** *** 44,45 **** --- 46,49 ---- boolean fgot; + struct passwd *pw ; + char *system_name ; *************** *** 49,50 **** --- 53,83 ---- iret = _uuconf_itaylor_system_internal (qglobal, zsystem, qsys); + if (iret == UUCONF_NOT_FOUND) + { + pw = getpwnam(zsystem) ; + if (pw == NULL) + { + iret = UUCONF_NOT_FOUND ; + } + else + { + /* Must be a UUCP user, should be a macro below */ + if (strcmp(pw->pw_shell,"/usr/libexec/uucp/uucico") == 0) + { + iret = _uuconf_itaylor_system_internal (qglobal, "default", qsys); + if (iret == UUCONF_SUCCESS) + { + system_name = (char *) malloc((size_t) 16) ; + strcpy(system_name,zsystem) ; + qsys->uuconf_zname = (char *)system_name ; + qsys->uuconf_fdefault = 1 ; /* OK but was the default entry */ + } + } + else + iret = UUCONF_NOT_FOUND ; + } + } + else + { + qsys->uuconf_fdefault = 0 ; /* OK and was not the default entry */ + } if (iret == UUCONF_SUCCESS) File: ./libuuconf/val.c (If default then emulate a called-login equals system-name. Otherwise do the standard validation) *** val.org Mon Jul 10 11:03:01 1995 --- val.c Tue Jul 18 11:04:31 1995 *************** *** 41,42 **** --- 41,49 ---- #if HAVE_TAYLOR_CONFIG + if (qsys->uuconf_fdefault == 1) /* If default do simple validation */ + { + if (strcmp(qsys->uuconf_zname,zlogin) == 0) /* system=user? */ + return UUCONF_SUCCESS ; + else + return UUCONF_NOT_FOUND ; + } /* Otherwise validate normally */ return uuconf_taylor_validate (pglobal, qsys, zlogin); Patch set 2 : make uuxqt work for a target system only. (I got this patch from our WinNet-UK partner) Example lines from my config file: max-uuxqts 10 # The maximum number of uuxqts run-uuxqt once # Run uuxqt after uucico exits File: ./common_sources/system.h (modify entry point to include system) *** system.h_org Sat Jul 8 20:08:11 1995 --- system.h Sat Jul 8 20:08:45 1995 *************** *** 560,562 **** usysdep_get_xqt_free is called. */ ! extern boolean fsysdep_get_xqt_init P((void)); --- 560,562 ---- usysdep_get_xqt_free is called. */ ! extern boolean fsysdep_get_xqt_init P((char *zsystem)); File: ./libunix/xqtfil.c (modify entry point to include system) *** xqtfil.org Sat Jul 8 20:12:53 1995 --- xqtfil.c Sat Jul 8 20:16:51 1995 *************** *** 84,85 **** --- 84,86 ---- #endif /* SUBDIRS */ + static char *zOnlySystem = NULL ; *************** *** 91,93 **** boolean ! fsysdep_get_xqt_init () { --- 92,95 ---- boolean ! fsysdep_get_xqt_init (zsystem) ! char *zsystem; { *************** *** 95,96 **** --- 97,100 ---- + zOnlySystem = zbufcpy (zsystem); + qSxqt_topdir = opendir ((char *) ZDIR); *************** *** 151,152 **** --- 155,159 ---- + if (zOnlySystem != NULL && strcmp(qtop->d_name, zOnlySystem) != 0) + continue ; + DEBUG_MESSAGE1 (DEBUG_SPOOLDIR, *************** *** 262,263 **** --- 269,272 ---- zSsystem = NULL; + ubuffree (zOnlySystem) ; + zOnlySystem = NULL ; #endif File: ./uuxqt/uuxqt.c (modify entry point to include system) *** uuxqt.org Sat Jul 8 20:09:55 1995 --- uuxqt.c Sat Jul 8 20:12:00 1995 *************** *** 250,252 **** ! if (! fsysdep_get_xqt_init ()) { --- 250,252 ---- ! if (! fsysdep_get_xqt_init (zdosys)) { File: ./uustat/uustat.c (modify entry point to include system arg as NULL meaning everybody) *** uustat.org Sat Jul 8 20:09:07 1995 --- uustat.c Sat Jul 8 20:09:37 1995 *************** *** 1424,1426 **** ! if (! fsysdep_get_xqt_init ()) return FALSE; --- 1424,1426 ---- ! if (! fsysdep_get_xqt_init (NULL)) return FALSE; *************** *** 1963,1965 **** /* Get a count of all the execution files. */ ! if (! fsysdep_get_xqt_init ()) return FALSE; --- 1963,1965 ---- /* Get a count of all the execution files. */ ! if (! fsysdep_get_xqt_init (NULL)) return FALSE; Good Luck! Regards, Mark Hittinger bugs@win.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 08:36:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA28125 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:36:13 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA28101 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:35:35 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT29LG5DF40048DW@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:35:15 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id RAA22864 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:47:39 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:47:39 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: IDE cdrom driver, I wanna test, please? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Message-id: <199507191547.RAA22864@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Could someone give me a pointer for the IDE CDROM driver, please? I received my 2.0.5 CD today :-) and suddenly I noted that I cannot access my CDROM on one of my machines. This machine only has a cdrom, no disk attached to the ide controller. Would that work? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.0-BUILT-19950701 FreeBSD 2.0-BUILT- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 09:06:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA29519 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:06:49 -0700 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net (mail1.wolfe.net [204.157.98.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA29513 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:06:47 -0700 Received: from gonzo.wolfe.net (moore@gonzo.wolfe.net [204.157.98.2]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id JAA08831; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:07:12 -0700 From: Timothy Moore Received: (moore@localhost) by gonzo.wolfe.net (8.6.10/8.6.9) id JAA20648; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:04:56 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:04:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199507191604.JAA20648@gonzo.wolfe.net> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com CC: thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: "Amancio Hasty Jr."'s message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:15:24 -0700 <199507190915.CAA02284@rah.star-gate.com> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:15:24 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." >>> Thomas Gellekum said: > I have never seen the question actually answered: is anyone working > on a port? What kind of experience is required (if _you_ say you > don't have enough system-level experience I probably shouldn't be > asking this)? > > tg A quick search showed that there is a Linux mailing list and an Ftp site for the linux work. substance.blackdown.org:/pub/Java/linux There was a reference to Nat Williams for porting the Sun-style Makefiles to gnu-style Makefiles. So I am wondering if anyone out there is holding back info on the current java port for FreeBSD :) Amancio I've been trying to feel this out myself over the last couple of days. There have been no messages on the java-porting list about FreeBSD since you kind of said you gave up, Amancio. If no one speaks up, I'm just about committed to spending 2 months full time on such a project starting Aug. 1. It's a daunting task. Never mind the Sparc assembly code, which seems to be mostly gratuitous except for some code that flushes register windows. There are a *lot* of dependencies on the Sparc register set, stack layout, Solaris threads, etc.... Ah, well. I can never resist a grungy language port. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 09:13:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA29684 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:13:38 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA29678 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:13:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15759; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:07:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199507191607.KAA15759@rover.village.org> To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Cc: Thomas Gellekum , jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com (Joshua Peck Macdonald), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:15:24 PDT Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:07:25 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : There was a reference to Nat Williams for porting the Sun-style Makefiles : to gnu-style Makefiles. So I am wondering if anyone out there : is holding back info on the current java port for FreeBSD :) I got into an interesting conversation with a Sun engineer over breakfast the other day. He was saying that Java used its own threading system, and that was supposed to make it easier to port and that you don't need an MT safe anything to get it up and running. I don't know if that is true or not, but it is what he told me when I commented on JAVA's portibility problems. Guess it is time to download the source and try myself.... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 09:52:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA00636 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:52:09 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA00629 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:52:06 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA17994; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:53:57 -0600 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:53:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199507191653.KAA17994@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Cc: Thomas Gellekum , jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com (Joshua Peck Macdonald), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Porting Java (was Re: What people are doing with FBSD ) In-Reply-To: <199507190915.CAA02284@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199507190840.KAA12770@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> <199507190915.CAA02284@rah.star-gate.com> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > A quick search showed that there is a Linux mailing list and an Ftp site > for the linux work. substance.blackdown.org:/pub/Java/linux > > There was a reference to Nat Williams for porting the Sun-style Makefiles > to gnu-style Makefiles. Just in case anyone is wondering, the person who did the Makefile port was "Nathan J. Williams", not "Nathan W. Williams" (me). I've been *real* busy with buying/moving into a new house, and hope to get back involved in FreeBSD RSN. (I just got my box back on the Internet after a two week hiatus) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 10:29:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA01988 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:29:38 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA01981 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:29:34 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA28292; Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:21:00 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507191721.AA28292@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.x may not run on Cyrix 486DL To: john@starfire.mn.org (John Lind) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:20:59 MDT Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199507190320.WAA14174@starfire.mn.org> from "John Lind" at Jul 18, 95 10:20:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I have tried images to boot FreeBSD 2.0R, 2.0.5R, and 2.0.5-950622-SNAP > on my 33Mhz Cyrix 486DL which is currently running FreeBSD 1.1, and > none of them have worked. 2.0R hangs before the "Testing Memory" > message, and the 2.0.5 versions reboot right before the Copyright > message (right after uncompressing done and booting kernel). I have > tried all three boot images on my 386, and the images themselves seem > fine. (I have tried to disable the cache, but that breaks this system > very badly for some unknown reason...) > > Should I bite the bullet and get a 486 MB and an Intel chip, or is there > some way I can contribute to resolving this? The compressed kernel is a problem in this regard (when coupled with the bootblock size limitations). The correct behaviour would probably be to disable the cache on Cyrix chips because they do not honor the non-cacheable bit. The detection and disabling code could be taken from "The Undocumented PC". Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 10:49:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA02879 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:49:26 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA02873 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:49:23 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA28329; Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:42:14 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507191742.AA28329@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:42:13 MDT Cc: jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507190514.IAA14160@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jul 19, 95 08:14:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > classes as well as for a SLIP or PPP connection. The number > I know using freebsd is about 5 I think, linux is probably closer > to 100. I can't explain that one. > > I can. Linux people have got distributions; two hours and you got > everything on disk, including TeX, emacs, doom and everything. I don't think this one is actually any more correct than pointing at a two hour figure for BSD. > There is no need to select between at least three different variants > of BSD. The kernel is the only thing that is standard between Linux distributions; in fact, there are 3-4 times as many different Linux distributions as BSD distributions. > Add unbeatable stability records when used in end-user workstations BSD in general and FreeBSD in particular rival this, no problem. If you can get installed, then you're pretty much rock solid from then on. The issue for BSD here (and I'll readily admit it's a problem) is getting installed. I was personally *shocked* at the complexity of the install of FreeBSD, though for a large number of installations the fact that FreeBSD has solved the front-loading problem (ie: I answer all the questions up front, and then I can go away) is a *BIG* plus in BSD's favor. The next job is to crank the tech level down on the install, which is mostly a finger-pointing at the disk management crap, which is more information than most people want to know. Something on the order of "I see you have 800MB of disk available; how much is mine to use?" and "You have 32MB of memory; the minimum amount of swap you probably want because you chose to install X is 48MB; is this OK?" and finally "You have XXX MB left; I recommend AAA MB for the system and add-ons and the rest (BBB MB) for your files, etc. Is this OK with you?". > and lots of masses using Linux. Largely propaganda. Not that there shouldn't be a "BSD Journal" or other propaganda mechanism for BSD (and to present a united front for BSD, even if a merge is impossible (or undesirable, in the case of BSDI). This isn't a popularity contest, where popularity increases popularity. If it is, I suggest you include the SunOS, Gould, Ultrix, and OSF/1 numbers in the BSD camp headcount. 8-). > There are other more subtle reasons, but those are far enough. I'd like to hear the subtle ones 8^). I think the only one of merit that I've seen above is stability, and that's only tangential to installation. > We currently use about 15 PC's running FreeBSD as routers and servers, but > the user workstations and personnel's home machines are Linux. The main > reasons for using FreeBSD here is Linux networking code (sigh) and > non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets > hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone as > long as the longest uptimes are weeks. Clearly, the BSD folks are more than willing to try to resolve *ANY* stability issue you might have; the biggest problem is that they remain unreported, and you can't fix a bug you aren't told about. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:03:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA03837 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:03:18 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA03829 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:03:14 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA28401; Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:53:16 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507191753.AA28401@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: getpwent() YP/NIS bugu To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net (Imperial Irrigation District) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 11:53:15 MDT Cc: jim@reptiles.org, wpaul@skynet.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507190603.XAA13823@lightlink.satcom.net> from "Imperial Irrigation District" at Jul 18, 95 11:03:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, I have the same problem too. I use +:*:0:0:::::: instead of +::::::::: > The real problem of this I cannot find this in any documentation that comes > with FreeBSD. Documentation this certainly would help promote FreeBSD. > Little thing can makes a big different. I cannot tell you in words how > frustrated I was while I cannot make NIS works right. I have UnixWare, AIX > running NIS in my office. The "real problem" (tm) is that once it sees the "+" it shouldn't care about the rest of it. The place this is broken is in the pwmkdb, which should assume the rest to the end of the line *for you* when you put in a naked '+:' (not just a naked '+', followed by anything, since netgroups are identified that way). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:10:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA04174 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:10:43 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04168 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:10:42 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA18636 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:10:36 -0700 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09411; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:09:08 -0500 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 19 Jul 95 13:09 CDT Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 19 Jul 95 13:09 CDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:09:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9507191742.AA28329@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 19, 95 11:42:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2225 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There are other more subtle reasons, but those are far enough. > > I'd like to hear the subtle ones 8^). I think the only one of merit > that I've seen above is stability, and that's only tangential to > installation. > > > We currently use about 15 PC's running FreeBSD as routers and servers, but > > the user workstations and personnel's home machines are Linux. The main > > reasons for using FreeBSD here is Linux networking code (sigh) and > > non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets > > hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone as > > long as the longest uptimes are weeks. > > Clearly, the BSD folks are more than willing to try to resolve *ANY* > stability issue you might have; the biggest problem is that they remain > unreported, and you can't fix a bug you aren't told about. > > > Regards, > Terry Lambert Ours don't remain unreported :-) On the other hand, I have to second what Terry says. I've received a number of suggestions, things to try, and even guesses in the wind about the problems I've reported. Yes, I still have some problems with stability. But we *are* getting closer and making progress, and the list of exceptions at present with FreeBSD is down to *TWO*. Considering that BSDI has a longer list than that, some of which have remained open for a long time, and Linux is the patch-of-the-hour club IMHO, there is no way these compare. I happen to personally HATE the installer that FreeBSD uses, as adding disks to an existing system is a real bitch of a job the way they do things. The nice (and it IS nice) installer that you get when you boot disk #1 is not available once you have it up, and that's really too bad -- if FreeBSD had a nice, clean disk partitioning and labelling tool I'd be in hog heaven right now. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:12:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA04264 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:12:15 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA04258 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:12:11 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03307; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:11:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199507191811.LAA03307@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Timothy Moore cc: thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:04:56 PDT." <199507191604.JAA20648@gonzo.wolfe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:11:47 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Timothy Moore said: > Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:15:24 -0700 > From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." > > >>> Thomas Gellekum said: > > I have never seen the question actually answered: is anyone working > > on a port? What kind of experience is required (if _you_ say you > > don't have enough system-level experience I probably shouldn't be > > asking this)? > > > > tg > > A quick search showed that there is a Linux mailing list and an Ftp site > for the linux work. substance.blackdown.org:/pub/Java/linux > > There was a reference to Nat Williams for porting the Sun-style Makefiles > to gnu-style Makefiles. So I am wondering if anyone out there > is holding back info on the current java port for FreeBSD :) > > Amancio > > I've been trying to feel this out myself over the last couple of days. > There have been no messages on the java-porting list about FreeBSD > since you kind of said you gave up, Amancio. If no one speaks up, I'm > just about committed to spending 2 months full time on such a project > starting Aug. 1. > > It's a daunting task. Never mind the Sparc assembly code, which seems > to be mostly gratuitous except for some code that flushes register > windows. There are a *lot* of dependencies on the Sparc register set, > stack layout, Solaris threads, etc.... Ah, well. I can never resist > a grungy language port. > BTW: I gave up because of the stupid issues on portability . Like at the time heavy dependencies on Solaries' make. I started to make sense out of them by doing the make on a my netcom account and btw netcom is running Sun OS which also couldn't also make java at the time however it the make process got far enough to give me clue as to what was going on. I am sure that the task can be accomplish however in my case it was more work than it was worth it. Specially, after I compiled guile in less than 1/2 hour. Talking about guile, in guile's todo list it was mentioned that a port of tkWWW was a target goal. I wonder if anyone has done it? Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:26:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA05187 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:26:17 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA05181 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:26:15 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA28521; Wed, 19 Jul 95 12:18:43 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507191818.AA28521@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 12:18:42 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Jul 19, 95 10:44:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > as Justin just wrote, the core team can only fix bugs it knows about, so: > > I experience 2 types of total system hangs under 2.0.5-Release, > > 1) in an xterm, while scrolling, the system sometimes and totally > unreproducable just hangs. This seems to occur more often the smaller > the used font and/or the larger the xterm is, or better the more > amount to scroll. > This also happened from time to time under 1.1.5.1 and was one of the > reasons i wanted to upgrade. > When this happens, the machine is totally frozen so there is not even > a chance to look from another side into the machine. Move sio3 off of irq 7. IRQ 7 is the garbage interrupt for untrapped interrupts. Arguably, all BSD interrupts should be soft-vectored so that there is no such thing as a "garbage" interrupt. The ability to add and remove chain items would help in equipment autodetection. Nevertheless, since you have nothing on irq 2, potentially, the video card is generating IRQ 2 on vertical retrace (a typical result of card level scroll commands, since they wait for vertical retrace). Potentially, you could also resolve this by putting a trap to a null device (or throwing a printer driver) on irq 2, or by a jumper setting on the video card. > 2) Disk i/o hangs, sometimes with the access LED on the controller on, some- > times off. The machine is operational as long as one does not "touch" > the disks, so i would be able to search for something if someone would > tell me where to search and what to search for. > > always found under 1.1.5.1. I'm a little upset that there is not a controller identification message from the SCSI controller; I can nly tell by its name that it is some kind of Adaptec controller. Because of the EISA and other message, and the fact that you were using the thing under 1.1.5.1, I'm going to guess that it's an Adaptec 1740 (no floppy on board) or an Adaptec 1742. The important issue here is, I think, firmware revision and EISA configuration utility settings. In particular, Adaptec shipped all of it's 174x boards with a "3.0" EISA config disk, and they have a "3.1" EISA config disk that has better settings available in it. I would not suggest changing translation modes (one of the features of the new setup disks is access to "advanced translation") unless you are adding a big drive that needs to be accessed by DOS (and if you modify this setting, be prepared to reinstall all drives using the old translation!). I would, however, suggest looking at bus timing and disconnect, especially with regard to the Archive Viper drive. Setting the bus transfer rate down on the offending peripheral(s) will probably fix your problem. If you disable disconnect, make sure that the kernel you are running has tagged command queueuing turned off, since it relies on disconnect and doesn't compute transitive closure across the call graph to ensure against deadlock. And yes, SCSI failure recovery is currently under design discussion on the hackers list, which will probably allow you to run with hiccups instead of hangs (but wouldn't it be better to set the hardware so that it fixes your problem now, and when the recovery code is in place later, you don't have to deal with hiccups?). BTW, UnixWare defaults the transfer rate to the second lowest for all Adaptec controllers to guard against just this type of problem. Is it an acceptable trade? Probably not, if the majority of SCSI hardware out there doesn't have problems at higher rates. PS: Check your SCSI II cables and Active termination (had to say it before Rod jumped in 8-)). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:28:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA05392 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:28:06 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05383 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:28:03 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01912; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:27:23 -0700 To: Timothy Moore cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:04:56 PDT." <199507191604.JAA20648@gonzo.wolfe.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <1910.806178443@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It's a daunting task. Never mind the Sparc assembly code, which seems > to be mostly gratuitous except for some code that flushes register > windows. There are a *lot* of dependencies on the Sparc register set, > stack layout, Solaris threads, etc.... Ah, well. I can never resist > a grungy language port. To say nothing of the threads requirements. I've sent a couple of messages to Chris Provenzano lately, but he never replies.. :-( We need to figure out what our thread support situation in FreeBSD is going to be.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:33:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA05563 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:33:15 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05557 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:33:12 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01941; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:32:33 -0700 To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) cc: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu), jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:42:13 MDT." <9507191742.AA28329@cs.weber.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:32:33 -0700 Message-ID: <1939.806178753@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Something on the order of "I see you have 800MB of disk available; how > much is mine to use?" and "You have 32MB of memory; the minimum amount > of swap you probably want because you chose to install X is 48MB; is > this OK?" and finally "You have XXX MB left; I recommend AAA MB for > the system and add-ons and the rest (BBB MB) for your files, etc. Is > this OK with you?". This has long been envisioned as the "express install" option, where the installer looks around your system and tries to figure out the most optimum setup. The only problem is that doing this right for all the configuration types is hard, so I haven't done it yet. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:34:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA05629 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:34:29 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05623 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:34:24 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03531; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:33:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199507191833.LAA03531@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:09:05 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:33:37 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" said: > > > There are other more subtle reasons, but those are far enough. > > > > I'd like to hear the subtle ones 8^). I think the only one of merit > > that I've seen above is stability, and that's only tangential to > > installation. > > > > > We currently use about 15 PC's running FreeBSD as routers and servers, b ut > > > the user workstations and personnel's home machines are Linux. The main > > > reasons for using FreeBSD here is Linux networking code (sigh) and > > > non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets > > > hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone a s > > > long as the longest uptimes are weeks. > > > > Clearly, the BSD folks are more than willing to try to resolve *ANY* > > stability issue you might have; the biggest problem is that they remain > > unreported, and you can't fix a bug you aren't told about. > > > > > > Regards, > > Terry Lambert > > Ours don't remain unreported :-) > > On the other hand, I have to second what Terry says. I've received a number > of suggestions, things to try, and even guesses in the wind about the > problems I've reported. > > Yes, I still have some problems with stability. But we *are* getting closer > and making progress, and the list of exceptions at present with FreeBSD is > down to *TWO*. > > Considering that BSDI has a longer list than that, some of which have > remained open for a long time, and Linux is the patch-of-the-hour club IMHO, > there is no way these compare. > > I happen to personally HATE the installer that FreeBSD uses, as adding disks > to an existing system is a real bitch of a job the way they do things. The > nice (and it IS nice) installer that you get when you boot disk #1 is not > available once you have it up, and that's really too bad -- if FreeBSD had a > nice, clean disk partitioning and labelling tool I'd be in hog heaven right > now. > > -- > I have to sencod that for a little while ago my second disk drive corrupted itself real bad. So I had to reformat it and I am still having problems with the disks. Now it was just like the good old days of 386bsd to install a disk label :( Others have mentioned it and I will stated also sysintall needs to be able to run on a normal system to label disks, install packages, etc.. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 11:43:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA05928 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:43:35 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA05922 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:43:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02010; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:42:53 -0700 To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert), hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:09:05 CDT." Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:42:53 -0700 Message-ID: <2008.806179373@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I happen to personally HATE the installer that FreeBSD uses, as adding disks > to an existing system is a real bitch of a job the way they do things. The > nice (and it IS nice) installer that you get when you boot disk #1 is not > available once you have it up, and that's really too bad -- if FreeBSD had a > nice, clean disk partitioning and labelling tool I'd be in hog heaven right > now. I'm working on it! I'm working on it! :-) It's an unfortunate fact that the release tools seem to occupy a remote corner in most people's consciousness and I've been doing a lot of that sort of development alone, though Poul-Henning and Gary were white knights during the 2.0.5 installation effort. The main drawback to the current model is, however, the fact that having one person hack out the installer in a corner results in something that has a rather polarised view of how installs should be done, and there's not enough general feed-back during the development process - it all comes in postmortem. If someone out there considers the further development of sysinstall as something they'd be interested in, please contact me. We have some time before 2.1 to work on getting this right, for once, and we shouldn't waste it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 13:05:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA08412 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:05:43 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA08399 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:05:35 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sYfJi-000I3dC; Wed, 19 Jul 95 22:02 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0sYfKL-00001FC; Wed, 19 Jul 95 22:02 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:02:40 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <9507191818.AA28521@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 19, 95 12:18:42 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3892 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Terry Lambert: First of all, Terry, i highly appreciate the detailed feedback from you !!! > > I experience 2 types of total system hangs under 2.0.5-Release, > > > > 1) in an xterm, while scrolling, the system sometimes and totally > > unreproducable just hangs. This seems to occur more often the smaller > > the used font and/or the larger the xterm is, or better the more > > amount to scroll. > > This also happened from time to time under 1.1.5.1 and was one of the > > reasons i wanted to upgrade. > > When this happens, the machine is totally frozen so there is not even > > a chance to look from another side into the machine. > > Move sio3 off of irq 7. > > IRQ 7 is the garbage interrupt for untrapped interrupts. I wasn't aware of this ! The mouse is connected to sio3. > Nevertheless, since you have nothing on irq 2, potentially, the video > card is generating IRQ 2 on vertical retrace (a typical result of > card level scroll commands, since they wait for vertical retrace). No, it's disabled by a jumper or a switch - at least by hardware! The board is an ELSA Winner 1000. > > 2) Disk i/o hangs, sometimes with the access LED on the controller on, some- > > times off. The machine is operational as long as one does not "touch" > > the disks, so i would be able to search for something if someone would > > tell me where to search and what to search for. > I'm a little upset that there is not a controller identification message > from the SCSI controller; Sorry, yes, i have 2 1740's with identical firmware in this machine. > The important issue here is, I think, firmware revision and EISA > configuration utility settings. They both have the same firmware identified as "BIOS V1.40" during boot, that is the latest i could find at that time. > In particular, Adaptec shipped all of it's 174x boards with a "3.0" > EISA config disk, and they have a "3.1" EISA config disk that has > better settings available in it. I'm not shure wich version i have, but i'll get me 3.1. > I would not suggest changing translation modes I checked translation off and on, make no difference. > I would, however, suggest looking at bus timing and disconnect, > especially with regard to the Archive Viper drive. Setting the > bus transfer rate down on the offending peripheral(s) will probably > fix your problem. Yes, i once had and "old" SCSI I drive on the disk SCSI bus and it made problems until i reconfigured for a max data xfer rate of 5Mb/s. All devices on the 2nd bus are already set to 5Mb/s mostly because of the Archive (where did you knew this from ??? :-), bad experience ?) And yes, after another hang today in the morning i have also set the max xfer rate on the 1st bus down to 5Mb/s for all devices .... > If you disable disconnect, make sure that the kernel you are > running has tagged command queueuing turned off, since it relies > on disconnect and doesn't compute transitive closure across the > call graph to ensure against deadlock. Thanks for the hint! > BTW, UnixWare defaults the transfer rate to the second lowest for > all Adaptec controllers to guard against just this type of problem. Strange. I always thought the 1740's were a good deal, not only because of the documentation! > PS: Check your SCSI II cables and Active termination (had to say it > before Rod jumped in 8-)). A year or so ago i had some strange problems with this controllers, which automagically disappeared when i exchanged all the PC crap with "real" SCSI II cables. Also, i do regularly check the internal cables, connectors and terminators, although i must admit, that i have an active terminator only at one end of each bus. hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 13:20:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA08846 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:20:34 -0700 Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA08839 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:20:31 -0700 Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10037 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:22:50 -0600 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199507192022.OAA10037@hemi.com> Subject: Being curious with `cat * > file' To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:22:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2193 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, What should `cat * > output` do ? Should it gracefully concatenate all the files together into a file called `output', or will it attempt to cat the output into itself so many times until the file system is filled ? In FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP, the results are somewhat random: sometimes graceful, other times it fills up the file system. Is this a bug, feature, or is doing `cat * > output` considered an error ? The "problem" appears on two 2.0.5 machines here. Here's a sample session: [The particular shell is tcsh in my home directory. However, I can reproduce the problem with /bin/csh in /root (say, I just logged in as root.)] barkah: {1} mkdir test1 barkah: {2} cd test1 barkah: {3} cat >> testfile < output barkah: {5} ls -l total 4 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 output -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 testfile [Looks great up to this point, works as expected] barkah: {6} cat * > output2 [Job killed with ctrl-c at this point] barkah: {7} ls -l total 916 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 output -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 454360 Jul 19 13:50 output2 ^^^^^^ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 testfile [Look how huge that output2 file is!] barkah: {8} tail -5 output2 test file test file test file test file test file [And now for some random info] barkah: {9} uname -a FreeBSD barkah.hemi.com 2.0.5-950622-SNAP FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP #0: Wed Jul 12 19:10:26 MDT 1995 root@barkah.hemi.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/KERNEL i386 barkah: {10} df -k . Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/sd1s1f 1523098 533437 867813 38% /usr2 barkah: {11} grep usr2 /etc/fstab /dev/sd1s1f /usr2 ufs rw 1 1 barkah: {12} dmesg | grep aha0:1:0 (aha0:1:0): "HP 2.13 GB #A1 9002" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(aha0:1:0): Direct-Access 2033MB (4165272 512 byte sectors) Thanks for any ideas, -Ade Barkah -------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 13:45:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA10009 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:45:59 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA09998 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 13:45:48 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA09173 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:45:44 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id WAA12419 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:45:43 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507192045.WAA12419@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:45:43 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <9507191742.AA28329@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 19, 95 11:42:13 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 380 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think this one is actually any more correct than pointing at > a two hour figure for BSD. I agree, the last two installations I did of 2.0.5, it was 15mn by FTP for the bin and X11 dists... The laptop with ethernet was handy :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 14:10:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA10935 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:10:29 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA10929 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:10:26 -0700 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA14299 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:10:24 -0500 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 19 Jul 95 16:10 CDT Received: by mercury.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Wed, 19 Jul 95 16:02 CDT Message-Id: Subject: New one from -STABLE To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:02:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 768 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Under heavy NFS loads (as a client), the following is being seen with extreme regularity (mean time to reproduce is about 30 minutes): biodone: page busy < 0, off: 49152, foff: 49152, resid: 4096, index: 0 iosize: 8192, lblkno: 6 valid: 0xff, dirty: 0x0, mapped: 0 panic: biodone: page busy < 0 Anyone seen this? I know what this means, but now how we got into this condition... -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 14:35:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA11816 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:35:52 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA11804 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:35:48 -0700 Received: from unix.nike.efn.org (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA09342; Wed, 19 Jul 95 14:34:46 PDT Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@unix.nike.efn.org To: Ade Barkah Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Being curious with `cat * > file' In-Reply-To: <199507192022.OAA10037@hemi.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Ade Barkah wrote: > Hello, > > What should `cat * > output` do ? Should it gracefully concatenate > all the files together into a file called `output', or will it > attempt to cat the output into itself so many times until the > file system is filled ? > > In FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP, the results are somewhat random: > sometimes graceful, other times it fills up the file system. > Is this a bug, feature, or is doing `cat * > output` considered > an error ? > > The "problem" appears on two 2.0.5 machines here. well... I just did a little research... and if you susspend a session.. and take a look at the ps -ax you will set that it is converted to "cat output testfile output2"... and through futher research... this only appears in csh and tcsh... I tried this on zsh, ksh, bash, and sh... so I would have to say it is a bug in the shell... to further test is I telneted over to my ISP running SunOS... and tested it there... it would geneterate a error "cat: input ouput is output"... sounds like cat needs to detect where it is being redirected and if to a file make sure that the file isn't a file that is being catted... so overall... there is possibly two bugs... a) tcsh and csh add the output file to the command line because it first creates the null file to add the output file then resolves the wildcard command line... this last part is only a guess... I haven't actually checked up on it... b) by SunOS's version our cat is a little brain dead in that is doesn't detect this type of problem... but in someways it is nice to have a brain dead cat... can't think of any... but there might... [...] John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 16:06:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA15726 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:06:48 -0700 Received: from tserv.lodgenet.com (dial16.iw.net [204.157.148.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15698 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:05:22 -0700 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by tserv.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA16068 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:05:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA15650 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:05:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199507192305.SAA15650@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: lkm device drivers and dev_attach() Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:05:15 -0500 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there a problem with calling dev_attach() from within an lkm? I have a stub driver which will compile either from the config/make scheme or from an lkm. When I use the lkm method, an lsdev reports my device as the only one. Is this because my probe/attach isn't being called from config_isadev(), and so the list of devices is getting replaced by my single list. How can I correct this? should I #ifdef LKM around the dev_attach()? eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 16:10:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA15998 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:10:37 -0700 Received: from egate1.eds.com (egate1.eds.com [192.85.154.76]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA15988 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:10:36 -0700 Received: by egate1.eds.com (hello) id TAA12629; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:10:34 -0400 Received: by igate1.eds.com (hello) id TAA17353; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:10:33 -0400 Received: (from giese@localhost) by viper.bzn.vlt.eds.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03170 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:13:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199507192313.RAA03170@viper.bzn.vlt.eds.com> From: giese@viper.bzn.vlt.eds.com (Marcus Giese) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:13:24 +0000 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Digiboard driver Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I wondered if it would be possible for me to test the Digiboard driver that's rumored to be in Alpha testing? I've got this Digiboard box here that's not of much use otherwise... :-) thanks, Marcus -- | Marcus Giese | giese@viper.bzn.vlt.eds.com | (406) 585-6655 x5083 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes." Fermentation fault (coors dumped) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 16:45:20 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA16661 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:45:20 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA16655 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:45:19 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA01914; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:45:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:45:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199507192345.QAA01914@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It was pointed out to me that there are some strange-looking lines in /usr/src/Makefile: ===== # These are last, since it is nice to at least get the base system # rebuilt before you do them. .if defined(MAKE_LOCAL) & exists(local) & exists(local/Makefile) SUBDIR+= local .endif .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(ports) & exists(ports/Makefile) SUBDIR+= ports .endif ===== What are these? I am not aware of /usr/src/local or /usr/src/ports ever existing on our system. The ports stuff should be in /usr/ports, and has never been intended to be built as part of "make world". The "local" stuff are, well, up to the site administrator, but /usr/local is typically populated by third-party software (including many from the ports tree), so I don't know why it's here either. Will the world be obliterated in a violent volcanic eruption if I delete these lines? Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 17:19:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA16945 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:19:56 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA16938 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:19:53 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id RAA00210; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:19:21 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA09423; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:49:35 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507200019.JAA09423@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger, MCSNet) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:49:35 +0930 (CST) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" at Jul 19, 95 01:09:05 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1137 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Karl Denninger, MCSNet stands accused of saying: > I happen to personally HATE the installer that FreeBSD uses, as adding disks > to an existing system is a real bitch of a job the way they do things. The > nice (and it IS nice) installer that you get when you boot disk #1 is not > available once you have it up, and that's really too bad -- if FreeBSD had a > nice, clean disk partitioning and labelling tool I'd be in hog heaven right > now. Um, Jordan, I have this odd recollection of you announcing a version of the installer floppy that let you do the individual thangs all by themselves, rather than committing to mounting/extracting/etc; do I have bats inside, or what? > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 17:31:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA17602 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:31:12 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA17596 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:31:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA20367; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:30:31 -0700 To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:45:17 PDT." <199507192345.QAA01914@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:30:31 -0700 Message-ID: <20363.806200231@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Will the world be obliterated in a violent volcanic eruption if I > delete these lines? These were done on behalf of Julian Stacey, who wanted some sort of tighter integration in his "really build the world" makes. Myself, I think it's cruft and it should go. If you want to build the world, a small shell script does fine: % cat > beat_my_system #!/bin/sh date cd /usr/src echo "** Making the world in less than 7 days" make world echo "** Done with the world, resting.." sleep 1 echo "Ok, that's enough. Moving on to ports." cd /usr/ports make -k clean all install echo "My god! We're still here!" exit 0 ^D % chmod +x beat_my_system % ./beat_my_system >& /var/log/beating.log & Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 17:39:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA18924 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:39:52 -0700 Received: from lisa.rur.com (G338.257.InterLink.NET [199.202.234.53]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA18902 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:39:48 -0700 Received: (from leo@localhost) by lisa.rur.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA02906; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:39:28 GMT Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:39:28 +0000 () From: Leo Papandreou To: Terry Lambert cc: Heikki Suonsivu , jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-Reply-To: <9507191742.AA28329@cs.weber.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Terry Lambert wrote: > BSD in general and FreeBSD in particular rival this, no problem. If > you can get installed, then you're pretty much rock solid from then > on. The issue for BSD here (and I'll readily admit it's a problem) > is getting installed. > > I was personally *shocked* at the complexity of the install of FreeBSD, > though for a large number of installations the fact that FreeBSD has > solved the front-loading problem (ie: I answer all the questions up > front, and then I can go away) is a *BIG* plus in BSD's favor. The > next job is to crank the tech level down on the install, which is > mostly a finger-pointing at the disk management crap, which is more > information than most people want to know. > I never saw a unix prompt in my life before this year when I installed 2.0 off the cd-rom. I started to read the doc files but got impatient and decided to wing it. It worked but its not like I knew why or what was happening. I didnt bother to backup the dos partition (and Im sure Im in the majority on this) so it was an anxious experience. In this regard the 2.0.5 installation is probably even more daunting to the complete unix neophyte (but otherwise vastly superior.) Perhaps you can get someone off the street and talk them through the installation while recording the event in a question and answer format? Its just a thought but the point is that Joe Windows and Jordan are never going to be in sync despite Jordan's efforts to be as lucid and non-techy as possible. > > and lots of masses using Linux. > > Largely propaganda. They're fanatics. Is there not one Linux user that does NOT mention the fact in their sig? Sheesh, it's like a usenet jihad strike force. > Not that there shouldn't be a "BSD Journal" or other > propaganda mechanism for BSD (and to present a united front for BSD, even > if a merge is impossible (or undesirable, in the case of BSDI). > Well www.freebsd.org could be jazzed up to include an online Journal. I appreciate how busy the core team must be but I cant help thinking what a listing under Netscape's cool links would do to further the cause. cgi shouldnt be a problem for you guys; is there nobody around with a design and graphics background? wcarhive is hit heavily (apparently the busiest site on the net?) but what percentage of people using a windows ftp program even see the FreeBSD info as it scrolls past at a 100 miles/hour? > I'd like to hear the subtle ones 8^). I think the only one of merit Well it would be nice if the folks at netscape, mosaic, real-audio, etc distributed FreeBSD binaries. As it is they do distribute Linux binaries. Consider the position of a person looking at installing a free unix on their system. What are they going to choose in the weight of all this subtle pressure? There develops a tacit assumption that Linux is the superior OS. Its wrong but how many non-unix people are going to do a little research in the face of all this "evidence?" As I write this there is a commercial for the movie "The Net" on the boob-tube. The radio station I listen to is promoting their web site. The newspaper I read is warning me that there is sex on the net (yeah, like that's going to keep people away in droves.) There doesnt seem to be any slowdown in net growth and this, IMHO, is going to translate directly into increased interest for UNIX. The opportunity is here but a superior product is not going to be enough. Like my boss says, even to get laid you need marketing. -Leo From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 17:39:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA18938 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:39:53 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA18911 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:39:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA21883; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:39:11 -0700 To: Michael Smith cc: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger, MCSNet), terry@cs.weber.edu, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:49:35 +0930." <199507200019.JAA09423@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:39:10 -0700 Message-ID: <21881.806200750@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Um, Jordan, I have this odd recollection of you announcing a version of > the installer floppy that let you do the individual thangs all by themselves, > rather than committing to mounting/extracting/etc; do I have bats inside, > or what? Well, I'm not going to answer that particular question (regarding the winged rodents) given that it's rather superfluous in the case of anyone with a .au at the end of their address. I've worked with numerous Australians in my European travels and they were all, without exception, utterly flat-out bonkers! :-) But as to your real question, yes, I did announce that and I even did it, except that I did it in the WRONG BRANCH and the changes didn't make it into the snapshot! :-( I'm desperate to work on another snap but there are some CVS hoops that need to be jumped through first before I can get one out the door. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 17:43:36 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA20062 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:43:36 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA20050 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:43:35 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA01960; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:43:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:43:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199507200043.RAA01960@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <20363.806200231@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * These were done on behalf of Julian Stacey, who wanted some sort of * tighter integration in his "really build the world" makes. Myself, * I think it's cruft and it should go. If you want to build the world, * a small shell script does fine: I agree with you, this is just confusing. (I received a question "should I put the ports lndir in /usr/src/ports?" from a user who took a long hard look into /usr/src/Makefile.) More importantly, it directly conflicts with bsd.port.mk, which has the ports in /usr/ports by default. A funny shell script like yours or a command line with a "cd" in it (don't tell me you don't know how to do that, Julian :) should do just fine. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 18:04:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA25598 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:04:35 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA25576 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:04:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA26198; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:03:52 -0700 To: Leo Papandreou cc: Terry Lambert , Heikki Suonsivu , jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:39:28 -0000." Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:03:52 -0700 Message-ID: <26196.806202232@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps you can get someone off the street and talk them through > the installation while recording the event in a question and answer > format? Its just a thought but the point is that Joe Windows and > Jordan are never going to be in sync despite Jordan's efforts to be as > lucid and non-techy as possible. You'll get no argument on that score from me. It's just that the install team tends to get stuck working in a vacuum for every install we've done. I don't blame any one "side" in this (the install hackers or the users) since I think that it's more the basic methodology surrounding each release that's at fault. The code base goes into code freeze and then a small group of black magicians get together in a corner and mutter various dark spells around a couldron that those around them are generally afraid to even look into, much less stir in their own ingredients. > Well www.freebsd.org could be jazzed up to include an online Journal. > I appreciate how busy the core team must be but I cant help thinking > what a listing under Netscape's cool links would do to further the > cause. cgi shouldnt be a problem for you guys; is there nobody around > with a design and graphics background? I'm afraid not. I've put out 3 different calls now for daemon artwork to jazz up the pages (daemon reading book for docs page, daemon with butterfly net chasing winged insect for bugs page, etc) and not one person has responded with anything that might have been used in the pages (well, not responded PERIOD is more like it! :-( ). It's depressing. > Well it would be nice if the folks at netscape, mosaic, real-audio, etc > distributed FreeBSD binaries. As it is they do distribute Linux binaries. > Consider the position of a person looking at installing a free unix I push push push on that, believe me.. It's an uphill battle and a fine line besides between "advocate" and "pest", so I try to push only as much as seems reasonable. > The opportunity is here but a superior product is not going to > be enough. Like my boss says, even to get laid you need marketing. Maybe *that's* my problem - not enough marketing! And here I was blaming myself for always sitting in front of my computer and never actually going out to MEET any women.. :-) All kidding aside, yes, I agree with you completely. It's just hard to find the resources to do it! Everybody wants to hack the product, but few genuinely want to "sell" it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 18:23:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA00202 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:23:49 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA00195 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:23:47 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id RAA00153 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:13:40 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA09410; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:43:31 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507200013.JAA09410@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.x may not run on Cyrix 486DL To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:43:30 +0930 (CST) Cc: john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507191721.AA28292@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 19, 95 11:20:59 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 728 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > The correct behaviour would probably be to disable the cache on Cyrix > chips because they do not honor the non-cacheable bit. Unless someone can overcorrect me, I'd ask that this be read as "some" Cyrix chips; certainly their DX40 and DX2/66 parts _appear_ to behave appropriately. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 18:25:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA00653 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:25:18 -0700 Received: from mail.barrnet.net (mail.barrnet.net [131.119.246.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA00639 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:25:16 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id RAA00133 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:12:45 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id RAA06188; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:10:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:10:13 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199507200010.RAA06188@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sunic!sunic.sunet.se!mimuw.edu.pl!news.nask.org.pl!unibel.by!brc.minsk.by!a.d. From: Alexey Demianenko Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: SLIP with dynamic IPs Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:18:00 +0300 Organization: Research and Development Computer Network of Belarus Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <3tv2gd$cgo_001@ss21.ssnet.com> <3uc24b$huh@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: brc.minsk.by Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <3uc24b$huh@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Hello ! On 16 Jul 1995, Jon Jenkins wrote: : >> It can be found at this site: : >> ftp.rz.tu-clausthal.de in /pub/unix/tuc : >> : >> Filenames: : >> bsddip-1.01.ReadMe : >> bsddip-1.01.tar.Z : >> : : If someone gets this they might put it on one : of the bigger sites. It is almost impossible to : get onto this machine (it has a limit of 3-5 non- : german ftp users). After 3 hours of trying Ive : given up for the moment Guys, I don't know you're talking about :) . After 3 days of unsuccessful ftp'ing to ftp.rz-tu.claus.... I've write my own sliplogin command. I can suggest some patches for it. That is more flexible than old one. You'll can assign with it both static and dynamic IP addresses. This is just a patch for /usr/bin/sliplogin of FreeBSD 2.0, so I didn't make special READMEs and Makefile. Little 'slip.ttys' file example only. Try ftp://brc.minsk.by/pub/unix/sliplogin.tgz Best, Alexey Demianenko ______________________________ sometimes it's hard to see Voice/Fax: +7 (0172) 206134 the things you want in life e-mail : a.d.@brc.minsk.by come and go so easily From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 18:56:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA02337 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:56:55 -0700 Received: from dorsai.dorsai.org (amanda.dorsai.org [198.3.127.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA02331 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:56:53 -0700 From: Mileena Received: by dorsai.dorsai.org (5.67b/23Dec93-Dorsai Embassy) id AA07424; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:53:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199507200153.AA07424@dorsai.dorsai.org> Subject: FreeBSD 2.0 Install To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:53:01 -0400 (edt) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 695 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I just purchased the FreeBSD disk from Walnut Creek, and I must say it's a very good operating system. I had encountered 2 problems though. The first was on an EISA System (HP Vectra) with 52 MB of Ram... the software only recognized the first 16. The other problem (which occurred on several machines) was when I tried to install the X-Windows portion of the software. It would go through the checksum test, and then just hang, forcing me to reboot or reinstall everything. If you have any suggestions, I would appreciate it (esp since it's the X-Windows I was interested in). Other than those, the rest of the software worked excellent. Thank you in advance. Andrew Roth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 18:58:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA02379 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:58:29 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02373 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:58:26 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA08286; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:58:28 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507200158.SAA08286@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507200043.RAA01960@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jul 19, 95 05:43:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3438 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > * These were done on behalf of Julian Stacey, who wanted some sort of > * tighter integration in his "really build the world" makes. Myself, > * I think it's cruft and it should go. If you want to build the world, > * a small shell script does fine: > > I agree with you, this is just confusing. (I received a question > "should I put the ports lndir in /usr/src/ports?" from a user who took > a long hard look into /usr/src/Makefile.) More importantly, it > directly conflicts with bsd.port.mk, which has the ports in /usr/ports > by default. /usr/src/Makefile is in error, here is the diff to correct this bug: [Now, was that so hard to fix???? :-) :-)] Index: Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.57 diff -c -r1.57 Makefile *** 1.57 1995/05/29 23:50:55 --- Makefile 1995/07/20 01:11:30 *************** *** 4,10 **** # Make command line options: # -DCLOBBER will remove /usr/include and MOST of /usr/lib # -DMAKE_LOCAL to add ./local to the SUBDIR list ! # -DMAKE_PORTS to add ./ports to the SUBDIR list # -DMAKE_EBONES to build eBones (KerberosIV) # # -DNOCLEANDIR run ${MAKE} clean, instead of ${MAKE} cleandir --- 4,10 ---- # Make command line options: # -DCLOBBER will remove /usr/include and MOST of /usr/lib # -DMAKE_LOCAL to add ./local to the SUBDIR list ! # -DMAKE_PORTS to add ../ports to the SUBDIR list # -DMAKE_EBONES to build eBones (KerberosIV) # # -DNOCLEANDIR run ${MAKE} clean, instead of ${MAKE} cleandir *************** *** 76,83 **** .if defined(MAKE_LOCAL) & exists(local) & exists(local/Makefile) SUBDIR+= local .endif ! .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(ports) & exists(ports/Makefile) ! SUBDIR+= ports .endif # Handle the -DNOOBJDIR and -DNOCLEANDIR --- 76,83 ---- .if defined(MAKE_LOCAL) & exists(local) & exists(local/Makefile) SUBDIR+= local .endif ! .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(../ports) & exists(../ports/Makefile) ! SUBDIR+= ../ports .endif # Handle the -DNOOBJDIR and -DNOCLEANDIR *************** *** 138,146 **** # The cd is done as local may well be a symbolic link -cd local && find . -name obj | xargs rm -rf .endif ! .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(ports) & exists(ports/Makefile) # The cd is done as local may well be a symbolic link ! -cd ports && find . -name obj | xargs rm -rf .endif ${MAKE} cleandir ${MAKE} obj --- 138,146 ---- # The cd is done as local may well be a symbolic link -cd local && find . -name obj | xargs rm -rf .endif ! .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(../ports) & exists(../ports/Makefile) # The cd is done as local may well be a symbolic link ! -cd ../ports && find . -name obj | xargs rm -rf .endif ${MAKE} cleandir ${MAKE} obj > > A funny shell script like yours or a command line with a "cd" in it > (don't tell me you don't know how to do that, Julian :) should do just > fine. This point was made when the original work was done, yes it could have been done that way, but is what has changed is that before ports had no default location specified in any way, now there has been one made in bsd.port.mk that makes src/Makefile wrong. This patch corrects that :-) I hope this will make every one happy. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 19:14:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA02892 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:14:38 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA02883 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:14:33 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id WAA14367; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:15:42 -0400 From: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199507200215.WAA14367@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: leo@lisa.rur.com (Leo Papandreou) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Leo Papandreou" at Jul 19, 95 08:39:28 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 496 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [cc list trimmed] Leo Papandreou writes: > Well it would be nice if the folks at netscape, mosaic, real-audio, etc > distributed FreeBSD binaries. As it is they do distribute Linux binaries. Well, I'll bet one big reason is that the BSDI binaries that they distribute work fine on FreeBSD. Why distribute multiple binaries when one will do? Of course, if they labeled it "BSDI/FreeBSD" that might help things. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 19:39:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA12864 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:39:59 -0700 Received: from staff.cs.su.OZ.AU (staff.cs.su.OZ.AU [129.78.8.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA12820 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:39:55 -0700 Received: from osix.osix.oz.au by staff.cs.su.OZ.AU (mail from daemon for hackers@freebsd.org) with MHSnet; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:39:45 +1000 Received: from blain.osix.oz.au by osix.osix.oz.au (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03.OSIX.001) id AA13474; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 20:22:43 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by blain.osix.oz.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA07988; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:22:42 +1000 From: Peter May Message-Id: <199507200122.LAA07988@blain.osix.oz.au> Subject: Re: Being curious with `cat * > file' To: mbarkah@hemi.com (Ade Barkah) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:22:42 WET Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507192022.OAA10037@hemi.com>; from "Ade Barkah" at Jul 19, 95 02:22:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ade Barkah spoke thus: > Hello, > What should `cat * > output` do ? Should it gracefully concatenate > all the files together into a file called `output', or will it > attempt to cat the output into itself so many times until the > file system is filled ? Sort of. It will expand the '*' in alphabetical order, which is why you are getting this below. > Here's a sample session: > barkah: {1} mkdir test1 > barkah: {2} cd test1 > barkah: {3} cat >> testfile < test file > barkah: {4} cat * > output > barkah: {5} ls -l > total 4 > -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 output > -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 testfile The shell created the file output with length 0 before it exec'd the cat command. It then would have run the command: cat output testfile with output redirected to output. Since output was a zero length file at this point, it "copied" zero bytes from output to output. Then it copied the contents of testfile to output and you ended up with a 10 byte file "output" > [Looks great up to this point, works as expected] > barkah: {6} cat * > output2 > [Job killed with ctrl-c at this point] > barkah: {7} ls -l > total 916 > -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 output > -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 454360 Jul 19 13:50 output2 > ^^^^^^ > -rw-rw-r-- 1 mbarkah userm 10 Jul 19 13:50 testfile This is also expected, consider how the shell would have handled the filename expansion: (Creates empty file output2) cat output output2 testfile With standard output redirected to output2. First, it cat's the contents of output (which is 10 bytes) into output2, then it copies the contents of output2 to output2, which is at first 10 bytes, but keeps growing add infinitum. It never gets to testfile. If you want to prove it (it's based on alphabetic order) try: (with just output and testfile in the directory) cat '*' > aoutput As aoutput is the first file processed, it would work as expected. The issue is when the shell does filename expansion. In some shells, the expansion is done before redirection is processed. This does not appear to be the case in the shell you are using. > -Ade Barkah > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------->>>>> Peter May OSIX Pty Ltd Director Level 1, 261-263 Pacific Highway Technical Services North Sydney. NSW. Australia. 2060. Home: +61-2-418-7656 Internet: peter@osix.oz.au Work: +61-2-922-3999 Fax: +61-2-922-3314 >>>> PGP Public key available upon request <<<< ---------------------------------------------------------------->>>>> From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 20:07:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA26646 for hackerFrom owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 21:28:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA14384 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:28:46 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA14370 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:28:42 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA01058; Wed, 19 Jul 95 22:21:26 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507200421.AA01058@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.x may not run on Cyrix 486DL To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 22:21:25 MDT Cc: john@starfire.mn.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507200013.JAA09410@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 20, 95 09:43:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > The correct behaviour would probably be to disable the cache on Cyrix > > chips because they do not honor the non-cacheable bit. > > Unless someone can overcorrect me, I'd ask that this be read as "some" > Cyrix chips; certainly their DX40 and DX2/66 parts _appear_ to behave > appropriately. Yes; the problems are with Cyrix parts built with the Cyrix and TI chip masks (Cyrix and TI used to use the same chip masks and do co-developement). The problem does not exist with the Cyrix masks derived from the IBM chip masks (of which the DX40 and DX2/66 are examples). I don't have the details of stepping numbers, etc. because I simply don't buy Cyrix or TI parts (mail order salesmen will assure you of generally anything with regard to revisions just to make the sale). We know at least two that work here, but it would be nice to have a list, or even better, to have an auto-detect and correct + message. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 21:39:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA16450 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:39:12 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA16429 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:39:08 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA01108; Wed, 19 Jul 95 22:32:05 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507200432.AA01108@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0 Install To: mileena@amanda.dorsai.org (Mileena) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 22:32:04 MDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507200153.AA07424@dorsai.dorsai.org> from "Mileena" at Jul 19, 95 09:53:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, I just purchased the FreeBSD disk from Walnut Creek, and I must say > it's a very good operating system. I had encountered 2 problems though. > The first was on an EISA System (HP Vectra) with 52 MB of Ram... the > software only recognized the first 16. # cd /sys/i386/conf # cp GENERIC GENERIC.ORG # cat >> GENERIC The other problem (which occurred > on several machines) was when I tried to install the X-Windows portion of > the software. It would go through the checksum test, and then just hang, > forcing me to reboot or reinstall everything. Install the X seperately. At least you won't have to reinstall everything that way. We can then pick up from there (probably someone else will be answering that one). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 21:40:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA16718 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:40:40 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA16709 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:40:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199507200440.VAA16709@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu (John Fieber) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 95 22:15:42 EDT." <199507200215.WAA14367@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:40:36 -0700 From: Joshua Peck Macdonald Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > [cc list trimmed] > > Leo Papandreou writes: > > Well it would be nice if the folks at netscape, mosaic, real-audio, etc > > distributed FreeBSD binaries. As it is they do distribute Linux binaries. > > Well, I'll bet one big reason is that the BSDI binaries that they > distribute work fine on FreeBSD. Why distribute multiple > binaries when one will do? Of course, if they labeled it > "BSDI/FreeBSD" that might help things. > > -john > > === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === Does netscape core-dump when you copy or paste to the URL box at the top of the window under BSDi? Its always done that under FreeBSD (since 1.0) and I figured they would have fixed it by now if it was broken under BSDi too. -josh From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 21:59:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA21081 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:59:59 -0700 Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA21074 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:59:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199507200459.VAA21074@freefall.cdrom.com> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Joshua Peck Macdonald cc: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu (John Fieber), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 95 21:40:36 PDT." <199507200440.VAA16709@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:59:56 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Does netscape core-dump when you copy or paste to the URL box at >the top of the window under BSDi? Its always done that under >FreeBSD (since 1.0) and I figured they would have fixed it by now >if it was broken under BSDi too. > >-josh It has never done this for me. I cut and paste into the URL box all the time. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== Software Developer - Walnut Creek CDROM FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 19 22:12:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA22706 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:12:35 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22697 ; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:12:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA16119; Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:11:54 -0700 To: Joshua Peck Macdonald cc: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu (John Fieber), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 1995 21:40:36 PDT." <199507200440.VAA16709@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 22:11:53 -0700 Message-ID: <16117.806217113@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It's not broken. You simply don't have the nls files that came with it properly installed. Jordan > > [cc list trimmed] > > > > Leo Papandreou writes: > > > Well it would be nice if the folks at netscape, mosaic, real-audio, etc > > > distributed FreeBSD binaries. As it is they do distribute Linux binaries. > > > > Well, I'll bet one big reason is that the BSDI binaries that they > > distribute work fine on FreeBSD. Why distribute multiple > > binaries when one will do? Of course, if they labeled it > > "BSDI/FreeBSD" that might help things. > > > > -john > > > > === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === > > Does netscape core-dump when you copy or paste to the URL box at > the top of the window under BSDi? Its always done that under > FreeBSD (since 1.0) and I figured they would have fixed it by now > if it was broken under BSDi too. > > -josh > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 01:11:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA27205 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:11:34 -0700 Received: from vetch.cs.washington.edu (vetch.cs.washington.edu [128.95.2.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27199 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:11:32 -0700 Received: from vetch.cs.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vetch.cs.washington.edu (8.6.12/7.2ws+) with ESMTP id BAA12714; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:09:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199507200809.BAA12714@vetch.cs.washington.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Bruce Evans , David Greenman cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: One cause of 2.05R instability found In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:09:23 +1000." <199507170709.RAA22674@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:09:43 GMT From: Voradesh Yenbut Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for opening up my eyes on memory problem. The system is Premiere/PCI II Expandable Desktop system built by Intel. It does not seem to have a way to change any timing options on memory. When I have a chance, I might try removing or rearranging memory to see if the system can be more stable. Right now, the system has never stayed up longer than a week. Voradesh Yenbut Computer Science & Engineering Phone: +1 206 685-0912 BOX 352350, U of Washington FAX: +1 206 543-2969 Seattle, WA 98195 Email: yenbut@cs.washington.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 01:42:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA28294 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:42:41 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA28267 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 01:42:34 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id KAA12691 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:42:24 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id KAA14757 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:42:23 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507200842.KAA14757@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com (Joshua Peck Macdonald) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:42:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507200440.VAA16709@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Joshua Peck Macdonald" at Jul 19, 95 09:40:36 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 622 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Does netscape core-dump when you copy or paste to the URL box at > the top of the window under BSDi? Its always done that under > FreeBSD (since 1.0) and I figured they would have fixed it by now > if it was broken under BSDi too. It is not really a bug (call it a misfeature :-)). It is just that you lacks a propre XKeysymDB file and the proper nls/* tree soewhere with env. var. pointing at them... XKEYSYMDB=/users/roberto/lib/XKeysymDB XNLSPATH=/users/roberto/lib/nls -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 02:42:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA00467 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 02:42:12 -0700 Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA00461 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 02:42:06 -0700 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA29575; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:43:43 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:43:41 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , Terry Lambert , hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-Reply-To: <199507191833.LAA03531@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > ... > > I have to sencod that for a little while ago my second disk drive corrupted > itself real bad. So I had to reformat it and I am still having problems > with the disks. Now it was just like the good old days of 386bsd to > install a disk label :( Ah yes; those were the days. I remember spending a full 8 hours trying to disklabel and install on a friend's system. Tell that to kids nowadays and they wouldn't understand... -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 06:05:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA07443 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 06:05:41 -0700 Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA07437 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 06:05:36 -0700 Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sYvEo-000I3fC; Thu, 20 Jul 95 15:02 MET DST Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0sYvHD-00001DC; Thu, 20 Jul 95 15:04 MET DST Message-Id: From: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: 174x EISA config (was: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs) To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:04:31 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hackers) In-Reply-To: <9507191818.AA28521@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 19, 95 12:18:42 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 934 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of Terry Lambert: > > In particular, Adaptec shipped all of it's 174x boards with a "3.0" > EISA config disk, and they have a "3.1" EISA config disk that has > better settings available in it. Hmm - i scanned ftp.adaptec.com today, but i found nothing with a version no of 3.1. What i found was indeed a new set of EISA config files and overlays. My current EISA config allows me to set the IRQ via Control-R. The "new" ones allow me to set the IRQ in the "normal" config mode when i have to choose standard or enhanced mode. And - SURPRISE ! - it also allows me now to set level or edge interrupts. What did i have with my "old" config - level or edge ? And what are the pro's and con's of level or edge, is there a recommendation ? hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 06:11:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA07705 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 06:11:21 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA07699 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 06:11:17 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id JAA17426; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:03:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: bin/626: ruptime doesn't like big uptimes To: root@xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507201140.EAA05000@freefall.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk did someone disparage FreeBSD uptime vs Linux ?? now i dont know what they are using this machine for at their site. but surely if this had happened before it would have been fixed in the 4.3BSD release this kernel must be based on. ;)) On Thu, 20 Jul 1995 root@xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl wrote: > > >Number: 626 > >Category: bin > >Synopsis: ruptime doesn't like uptimes > 1 year > >Confidential: no > >Severity: non-critical > >Priority: low > >Responsible: freebsd-bugs (FreeBSD bugs mailing list) > >State: open > >Class: change-request > >Submitter-Id: current-users > >Arrival-Date: Thu Jul 20 04:40:01 1995 > >Originator: Mark Huizer > >Organization: > Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology > >Release: FreeBSD 2.0-BUILT-19950622 i386 > >Environment: > > Network with a machine that is 377 days up > > >Description: > > A machine with uptime >1 year appears wrong in the ruptime list > > >How-To-Repeat: > > ruptime at our domain gives... > at up 9+03:35, 0 users, load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > drakar up 2+23:12, 0 users, load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > gem up ??:??, 0 users, load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > sensus down 21:43 > skynet up 13+15:30, 0 users, load 0.23, 0.10, 0.08 > snail up 4:52, 0 users, load 0.04, 0.03, 0.07 > terra up 29+02:40, 2 users, load 0.30, 0.23, 0.00 > test1 up 12+20:58, 2 users, load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > test2 up 33+21:24, 1 user, load 0.01, 0.01, 0.00 > test4 up 2+19:55, 0 users, load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > triple up 16+11:29, 4 users, load 1.06, 1.01, 1.02 > turtle up 1+21:15, 17 users, load 0.68, 0.75, 0.69 > www2 up 0:31, 1 user, load 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > xaa up 0:40, 4 users, load 0.06, 0.06, 0.01 > zen up 3+21:15, 7 users, load 0.12, 0.12, 0.14 > >Fix: > > *** ruptime.c Wed Jun 14 13:35:30 1995 > --- ruptime.c.new Thu Jul 20 13:27:36 1995 > *************** > *** 196,203 **** > static char resbuf[32]; > int days, hours, minutes; > > ! if (tval < 0 || tval > DAYSPERNYEAR * SECSPERDAY) { > ! (void)snprintf(resbuf, sizeof(resbuf), " %s ??:??", updown); > return (resbuf); > } > /* round to minutes. */ > --- 196,203 ---- > static char resbuf[32]; > int days, hours, minutes; > > ! if (tval < 0 /* || tval > DAYSPERNYEAR * SECSPERDAY */ ) { > ! (void)snprintf(resbuf, sizeof(resbuf), " %s ??:??", updown); > return (resbuf); > } > /* round to minutes. */ > *************** > *** 208,217 **** > hours %= HOURSPERDAY; > if (days) > (void)snprintf(resbuf, sizeof(resbuf), > ! "%s %2d+%02d:%02d", updown, days, hours, minutes); > else > (void)snprintf(resbuf, sizeof(resbuf), > ! "%s %2d:%02d", updown, hours, minutes); > return (resbuf); > } > > --- 208,217 ---- > hours %= HOURSPERDAY; > if (days) > (void)snprintf(resbuf, sizeof(resbuf), > ! "%s %4d+%02d:%02d", updown, days, hours, minutes); > else > (void)snprintf(resbuf, sizeof(resbuf), > ! "%s %2d:%02d", updown, hours, minutes); > return (resbuf); > } > > >Audit-Trail: > >Unformatted: > > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 06:27:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA08199 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 06:27:04 -0700 Received: from terra.stack.urc.tue.nl (terra.stack.urc.tue.nl [131.155.140.128]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA08193 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 06:27:02 -0700 Received: from xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl (xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl [131.155.140.152]) by terra.stack.urc.tue.nl (8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA11016; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:26:34 +0200 Received: (from xaa@localhost) by xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA03328; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:26:52 +0200 From: Mark Huizer Message-Id: <199507201326.PAA03328@xaa.stack.urc.tue.nl> Subject: Re: bin/626: ruptime doesn't like big uptimes To: jmb@kryten.Atinc.COM (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:26:51 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Jul 20, 95 09:03:01 am Reply-To: xaa@stack.urc.tue.nl X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1182 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > did someone disparage FreeBSD uptime vs Linux ?? Huh??? > > now i dont know what they are using this machine for at their site. but > surely if this had happened before it would have been fixed in the 4.3BSD > release this kernel must be based on. ;)) All our FreeBSD machines did this... Just that we never had a machine up for over a year before :-) And then we found out there was this stupid restriction on the uptime in the source... > > Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. > FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy > play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 > ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 > Mark Huizer ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Mark Huizer - xaa@stack.urc.tue.nl - markh@win.tue.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Reading computer manuals without the hardware is as frustating - - as reading sex manuals without the software. -- Arthur C. Clarke - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 07:35:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA09622 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 07:35:13 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA09612 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 07:35:06 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA03374; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:32:18 -0400 From: A boy and his worm gear Message-Id: <199507201432.KAA03374@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507200019.JAA09423@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 20, 95 09:49:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 4227 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Michael Smith had to walk into mine and say: > Karl Denninger, MCSNet stands accused of saying: > > I happen to personally HATE the installer that FreeBSD uses, as adding disks > > to an existing system is a real bitch of a job the way they do things. The > > nice (and it IS nice) installer that you get when you boot disk #1 is not > > available once you have it up, and that's really too bad -- if FreeBSD had a > > nice, clean disk partitioning and labelling tool I'd be in hog heaven right > > now. > > Um, Jordan, I have this odd recollection of you announcing a version of > the installer floppy that let you do the individual thangs all by themselves, > rather than committing to mounting/extracting/etc; do I have bats inside, > or what? > > > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ I don't know how many of you have noticed it yet, but there is a way to partition and label new disks _after_ the initial installation using /stand/sysinstall, _without_ having to commit to a full install. It's called wizard mode. I added a Maxtor 71260 1.2GB IDE disk to my system recently and had no trouble at all. Here's what you do: 1) Physically install the disk (mine is installed as wd2, which is unit 0 on my second IDE controller). 2) Boot the system and run /stand/sysinstall (be sure to do it on ttyv0 'cause it seems to be rather fond of running from the first virtual console and it behaves strangely if you do it from anywhere else (hopefully this will be fixed in Sysinstall: The Next Generation)). 3) Find your way to the 'Partition' menu, select the new drive, and partition it to taste. 4) When you have everything set up the way you like it, press 'w' to get into wizard mode. 5) At the prompt, type 'write' and then press ENTER. This will write the new partition table immediately. 6) Type 'quit' to get out of wizard mode and then press 'Q' to leave the partition editor. 7) Go the the 'Label' section of the program, and set up your FreeBSD filesystems as you see fit (make a note of the mount points you select because they won't be saved). 8) Once again, press 'w' to get into wizard mode and type 'write' to write your disklabel to the disk. 9) Quit all the way out of the systinstall program: you're pretty much done. The last step is to newfs the newly created filesystems and then add them to /etc/fstab. These are two things that you can't get sysinstall to do for you without committing to a full install first, but these steps are fairly easy to do by hand, and you really should know how to do this sort of thing anyway (install programs are nice, but learning how to fend for yourself is nicer). Just newfs the filesystems, make mount points and edit fstab accordingly. You can then mount the filesystems and begin using the disk right away. One thing I didn't do was try to coax the thing into writing a boot manager to the disk for me, but I didn't so much care about that since I wasn't planning on booting from the new drive (you can't boot from disks on the second IDE controller anyway). Even so, this too is something that can easily be done by hand (writing the bootblocks is easily done with disklabel -B wd? and booteasy can be installed seperately provided you have an MS-DOS boot floppy lying around). Even so, it would be nice to be able to do just the disk configuration part without being forced to go through a complete install or making an end run around the user interface. I expect this is one of the many things Jordan has on his TODO list. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~ "Welcome to All Things BSDish! If it's not BSDish, it's crap!" ~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 07:56:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA10473 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 07:56:34 -0700 Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA10466 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 07:56:27 -0700 Received: (from peter@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12/DIALix) id WAA03035; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:56:19 +0800 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:56:19 +0800 (WST) From: Peter Wemm To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: timeouts on 'netstat' for address->name lookups? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk When doing a 'netstat' or 'netstat -r', sometimes you can get 75 second timeouts on strange addresses that are not correctly configured in the dns (such as lame delegations). 'w' was recently changed so that it only spends up to two seconds trying to translate the address in the ut_host field into a name. Who would object to me doing the same to netstat? Even though it's a short timeout, the name server will continue to attempt to look up the name on your behalf. If it has trouble, and takes 10 or 20 seconds to resolve the name it will cache it. Subsequently running netstat again will show the real name, rather than the IP address. I ask, rather than 'just doing it', because it causes a small diversion from traditional behavior. I think it's useful. I like to see hostnames, but dont like 75 second timeouts. Using the -n switch looses all hostnames, and the port names, whereas this timeout will tell you what is available. Objections? It's 4 lines of code to add. -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 08:49:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA12034 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:49:42 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA12019 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:49:33 -0700 Received: from hanoi.net.kiae.su (hanoi.net.kiae.su [144.206.130.53]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA06743 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:49:00 -0700 Received: (from vak@localhost) by hanoi.net.kiae.su (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA00487; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:47:31 +0400 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:47:30 +0400 (MSD) From: "Serge V.Vakulenko" X-Sender: vak@hanoi.net.kiae.su To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk Subject: [patch] if_lnc.c: support for PCI Lance Ethernet adapters added Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This patch adds the support for PCI Ethernet cards, based on AMD 79C970 chip. Apply this patch, and add the following lines to the kernel config file: controller pci0 device lnc0 Enjoy! Some notes: 1. The Am79C970 chip has the same manufacturer id as the Am79C965 one. Probing for it was wrong in the original driver. 2. Loss of carrier message could happen too often on overloaded networks, it surely does not worth printing. 3. There was a question of unit number conflict with configured ISA/EISA/VLB cards, the PCI probe routine now skips all busy unit numbers. Serge Vakulenko, Cronyx Ltd. --- if_lnc205.h Mon Oct 3 00:14:36 1994 +++ if_lnc.h Thu Jul 20 18:45:55 1995 @@ -67,8 +67,7 @@ #define PART_MASK 0xffff #define Am79C960 0x0003 #define Am79C961 0x2260 -#define Am79C965 0x2430 -#define Am79C970 0x0242 +#define Am79C965 0x2430 /* the same as for Am79C970 */ /* Board types */ #define UNKNOWN 0 --- if_lnc205.c Tue May 30 12:02:24 1995 +++ if_lnc.c Thu Jul 20 18:44:16 1995 @@ -698,7 +698,7 @@ } if (next->md->md3 & LCAR) { LNCSTATS(lcar) - log(LOG_ERR, "lnc%d: Loss of carrier during transmit -- Net error?\n", unit); + /* log(LOG_ERR, "lnc%d: Loss of carrier during transmit -- Net error?\n", unit); */ } if (next->md->md3 & RTRY) { LNCSTATS(rtry) @@ -1017,8 +1017,6 @@ return (PCnet_ISAplus); case Am79C965: return (PCnet_32); - case Am79C970: - return (PCnet_PCI); default: break; } @@ -1032,6 +1030,11 @@ { struct lnc_softc *sc = &lnc_softc[isa_dev->id_unit]; int lnc_mem_size; + static char *board_name [] = { /* Board types */ + "UNKNOWN", "BICC", "NE2100", "DEPCA" }; + static char *chip_name [] = { /* Chip types */ + "UNKNOWN", "Am7990", "Am79C90", "Am79C960", + "Am79C961", "Am79C965", "Am79C970" }; /* * Allocate memory for use by the controller. @@ -1106,6 +1109,15 @@ isa_dev->id_unit, sc->kdc.kdc_description, ether_sprintf(sc->arpcom.ac_enaddr)); + printf("lnc%d: type %s", isa_dev->id_unit, board_name[sc->nic.ident]); + if (sc->nic.ic) + printf("/%s", chip_name[sc->nic.ic]); + switch (sc->nic.mem_mode) { + case DMA_FIXED: printf (", static DMA buffer mode"); break; + case DMA_MBUF: printf (", chained DMA buffers mode"); break; + case SHMEM: printf (", shared memory mode"); break; + } + printf("\n"); #if NBPFILTER > 0 bpfattach(&sc->bpf, &sc->arpcom.ac_if, DLT_EN10MB, sizeof(struct ether_header)); @@ -1673,6 +1685,73 @@ ++lnc_softc[unit].arpcom.ac_if.if_oerrors; lnc_reset(unit); } + +/* + * PCI bus probe and attach routines for LANCE Ethernet controllers, + * by Serge V.Vakulenko, vak@cronyx.ru + */ +#include +#if NPCI > 0 +#include +#include +#include + +static char *lnc_pci_probe (pcici_t tag, pcidi_t type); +static void lnc_pci_attach (pcici_t config_id, int unit); + +static u_long lnc_pci_count; + +struct pci_device lnc_pci_device = { "lnc", + lnc_pci_probe, lnc_pci_attach, &lnc_pci_count, 0 }; + +DATA_SET (pcidevice_set, lnc_pci_device); + +static char *lnc_pci_probe (pcici_t tag, pcidi_t type) +{ + char *name = 0; + struct isa_device *d; + + if (type == 0x20001022) + name = "AMD Lance Ethernet"; + if (! name) + return (0); + + /* Look at configuration table and skip all ISA/EISA + * Lance unit numbers to avoid conflict. */ +again: + for (d=isa_devtab_net; d->id_driver; ++d) + if (d->id_driver == &lncdriver && d->id_unit == lnc_pci_count) { + ++lnc_pci_count; + goto again; + } + if (lnc_pci_count >= NLNC) + return (0); + return (name); +} + +void lnc_pci_attach (pcici_t config_id, int unit) +{ + struct isa_device dv; + + dv.id_unit = unit; + dv.id_iobase = pci_conf_read (config_id, PCI_MAP_REG_START); + if (! dv.id_iobase) + return; + dv.id_iobase &= ~1; + + if (! lnc_probe (&dv)) + return; + + if (! pci_map_int (config_id, (int(*)())lncintr, (void*)unit, &net_imask)) + return; + + if (lnc_softc[unit].nic.ic == PCnet_32) { + lnc_softc[unit].nic.ic = PCnet_PCI; + lnc_softc[unit].kdc.kdc_description = "PCnet-PCI Ethernet controller"; + } + lnc_attach (&dv); +} +#endif /* NPCI > 0 */ #ifdef DEBUG void From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 09:00:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA12350 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:00:04 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA12337 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:59:58 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA03486; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:57:59 -0400 From: A boy and his worm gear Message-Id: <199507201557.LAA03486@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: getpwent() YP/NIS bugu To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Cc: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net, jim@reptiles.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507191753.AA28401@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 19, 95 11:53:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 7283 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Terry Lambert had to walk into mine and say: > > Yes, I have the same problem too. I use +:*:0:0:::::: instead of +::::::::: Uh... wait a minute. Back up. The main place where people get tripped up is the UIG/GID fields: in SunOS (and those systems that license the Sun NIS code), the UID and GID fields are never remapped, but the password, gecos, home directory and shell fields are (the man pages say so). This means that sticking a '*' in the password field of the wildcard entry will remap all users' passwords to '*' no matter what platform you're using, so you shouldn't be using that. (There is a '*' in the magic NIS entries that pwd_mkdb creates in /etc/passwd, but those don't mean anything: all the entries in /etc/passwd in FreeBSD have '*' in their password fields.) As for the remapping of UIDs and GIDs itself, FreeBSD has always done that, and I decided to leave it that way once I started banging on the NIS code since it didn't seem like a terribly bad idea to allow it. (I never could figure out why Sun excluded the UID and GID fields like that.) It's very easy to change the code so that it mirrors the SunOS behavior, but just because Sun doesn't do it that way doesn't mean FreeBSD's approach is incorrect. > > The real problem of this I cannot find this in any documentation that comes > > with FreeBSD. Documentation this certainly would help promote FreeBSD. Yes, I know. The man pages never did say much about the magic NIS overrides. Now that I've finished my latest round of hacking, I finally have some time to concentrate on fixing that. > > Little thing can makes a big different. I cannot tell you in words how > > frustrated I was while I cannot make NIS works right. I have UnixWare, AIX > > running NIS in my office. Well I have SunOS, Solaris, IRIX, HP-UX, FreeBSD and Sony NEWS OS running all running NIS in mine. And they all work fine. > The "real problem" (tm) is that once it sees the "+" it shouldn't care > about the rest of it. > > The place this is broken is in the pwmkdb, which should assume the rest > to the end of the line *for you* when you put in a naked '+:' > (not just a naked '+', followed by anything, since netgroups are > identified that way). > Terry Lambert > terry@cs.weber.edu > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. I'm sorry Terry, but I can't parse this to save my life. The only difference between FreeBSD's magic NIS override handling and SunOS's handling (that I can tell from looking at the Sun man pages and observing SunOS's behavior) is that FreeBSD remaps the UID and GID fields and SunOS doesn't. (There's another difference which is that FreeBSD will also remap the extra fields in master.passwd-style password files, but since there is no direct analogue to master.passwd in SunOS, it's difficult to say whether this behavior is correct or not.) The wildcard entry (+::0:0::: in SunOS or +::::::::: in FreeBSD) should _not_ require any special handling in pwd_mkdb. It's just another magic NIS entry like all the others, except, being a wildcard, it matches against everybody. You don't believe me? Go to any NIS client machine and change +::0:0::: to +:*:0:0::: and see what happens; all users NIS users will have '*' as their password. Now go to FreeBSD and do the same thing; again, all passwords will be remapped to '*'. The question is how to set things up to please everybody. I for one feel that FreeBSD's NIS override mechanism is very nice and that you _should_ be able to override all the fields in a user's password entry (if you don't want a particular field overridden, then don't fill it in!). Others may not agree. The difficulty is that the library code isn't psychic so it can't automatically figure out which way you want it to work. The only way I can see to resolve this is to create an /etc/nis.conf file that lets you configure FreeBSD's NIS behavior just like /etc/host.conf lets you configure the resolver. In fact, this would let me solve a couple of nagging problems. For example, some of you may have noticed that FreeBSD only uses the netgroup map whereas other systems use netgroup, netgroup.byuser and netgroup.byhost. The reason it does this is because FreeBSD (well, 4.4BSD-Lite in general, really) has a local /etc/netgroup file, which no other OS has. Again, I like the idea of being able to use either a local file or NIS for reading netgroups; with the current system, you can even have locally defined netgroups that include references to NIS netgroups. But there's a price to pay: netgroup lookups done through just the netgroup map can be very slow if your netgroup database is large, since you need may need to search pretty far down into the database before you find all the members of a particular group. In particular, this hurts innetgr() a lot. The netgroup.byuser and netgroup.byhost are meant to solve this problem since they contain all the netgroup 'dependencies' already worked out for you, but you can't use these maps _and_ maintain the 'locally defined netgroup that includes references to NIS netgroups' feature at the same time. Well, I mean, you could do it, but you'd have to go through a lot of work to resolve everything correctly, and the time you'd waste would negate the advantage of using the special maps in the first place. The only way out of this is to offer the user a choice and let them configure the system to their taste. You could have things like this: # If we're being served by a FreeBSD ypserv, set this to 'yes' so # we can use the 'shadowed' master.passwd.byname and master.passwd.byuid # maps. If being served by a standard 'SunOS-style' ypserv, set it to # 'no.' # nis_use_master_passwd_maps=yes # Setting this to 'yes' allows FreeBSD to use its own local /etc/netgroup # file in conjunction with the NIS netgroup map. Setting it to 'no' causes # local /etc/netgroup files to be ignored; netgroups will only be read # from NIS, and the netgroup.byuser and netgroup.byhost maps will be # used to make netgroup lookups faster. # nis_freebsd_style_netgroups=yes # Set this to 'yes' if you want to have FreeBSD remap all the fields # in users' NIS password entries, including UIDs, GIDs and (if using the # master.passwd maps) expiration, aging and class data. Set it to 'no' # if you want 'SunOS-style' password remapping where the UIDs and GIDs # are not modified. # nis_remap_all_passwd_fields=yes Those are the three main issues I can think of for now. If people think this is a good idea, now's the time to speak up so that I can start working on it and get all the man pages in order. Suggestions for other options would be welcome too. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~ "Welcome to All Things BSDish! If it's not BSDish, it's crap!" ~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 09:06:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA12521 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:06:34 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA12515 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 09:06:31 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA03509; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:05:50 -0400 From: A boy and his worm gear Message-Id: <199507201605.MAA03509@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: timeouts on 'netstat' for address->name lookups? To: peter@haywire.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Peter Wemm" at Jul 20, 95 10:56:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1100 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Peter Wemm had to walk into mine and say: > When doing a 'netstat' or 'netstat -r', sometimes you can get 75 second > timeouts on strange addresses that are not correctly configured in the > dns (such as lame delegations). > > 'w' was recently changed so that it only spends up to two seconds trying > to translate the address in the ut_host field into a name. > > Who would object to me doing the same to netstat? [chop] > Objections? It's 4 lines of code to add. > > -Peter What's wrong with using netstat -rn ? -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~ "Welcome to All Things BSDish! If it's not BSDish, it's crap!" ~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 10:16:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15027 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:16:57 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15021 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:16:50 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55300>; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:16:33 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA12981; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:16:06 +0200 Message-Id: <199507201716.TAA12981@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jul 1995 02:43:29 +0200." <199507200043.RAA01960@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:16:06 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > (I received a question should I put the ports lndir in /usr/src/ports ) I seem to be getting this thread in random order. I guess you're talking about src/Makefile: .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(ports) & exists(ports/Makefile) SUBDIR+= ports .endif The idea was one would have a /usr/src/ports --> /usr/ports (& that would point to /usr57/ports or whatever/wherever) If you need to zap it Satoshi, go ahead :-) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 10:20:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA15235 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:20:51 -0700 Received: from eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA15222 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:20:41 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de ([129.187.142.36]) by eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de with SMTP id <55300>; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:19:50 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA13031; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:19:43 +0200 Message-Id: <199507201719.TAA13031@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami), jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jul 1995 03:58:27 +0200." <199507200158.SAA08286@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:19:42 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > here is the diff to correct this bug: > [Now, was that so hard to fix???? :-) :-)] Well done :-) Julian S From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 10:47:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA16754 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:47:19 -0700 Received: from emory.mathcs.emory.edu (emory.mathcs.emory.edu [128.140.2.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA16746 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:47:15 -0700 Received: from bagend.UUCP by emory.mathcs.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_mathcs.4.0.15) via UUCP id AA17459 ; Thu, 20 Jul 95 13:45:43 -0400 Received: by bagend.atl.ga.us (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0sYzU9-0004pHC; Thu, 20 Jul 95 13:34 EDT Message-Id: From: jan@bagend.atl.ga.us (Jan Isley) Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger MCSNet) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: from "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" at Jul 19, 95 01:09:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 546 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > The nice (and it IS nice) installer that you get when you boot disk #1 > is not available once you have it up, and that's really too bad -- it is: /stand/sysinstall make sure you run it from ttyv0 with a kernel compiled for sco, not pcvt. another mail gave directions for use in wizard mode. -- Jan Isley Nothing is permanent. Everything Changes. jan@bagend.atl.ga.us That's the one thing we know for sure in this world. But I'm still going to gripe about it. -- Calvin From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 10:50:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA16927 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:50:31 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA16921 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:50:30 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA28348; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:49:53 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA03338; Thu, 20 Jul 95 13:50:13 EDT Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:50:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ramspeed results - ?? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I picked up ramspeed from this list a week ago or so. Ran it last night. 1> Don't know how long it took, but it was over 90 minutes. 2> iT's 486DX66, BT SCSI2 VLB controller, 8 MB memory Results - 49005fb0 44.464 uS/op 2.25e+04 op/sec 0.086 mb/sec 8938c0df 44.845 uS/op 2.23e+04 op/sec 0.085 mb/sec What is this telling me. How does it compare? Is the 3rd a disk swap rate or something? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 11:34:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18044 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:34:08 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA18038 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:34:06 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA02637; Thu, 20 Jul 95 12:26:22 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507201826.AA02637@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: getpwent() YP/NIS bugu To: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (A boy and his worm gear) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 12:26:21 MDT Cc: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net, jim@reptiles.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507201557.LAA03486@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> from "A boy and his worm gear" at Jul 20, 95 11:57:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The "real problem" (tm) is that once it sees the "+" it shouldn't care > > about the rest of it. > > > > The place this is broken is in the pwmkdb, which should assume the rest > > to the end of the line *for you* when you put in a naked '+:' > > (not just a naked '+', followed by anything, since netgroups are > > identified that way). > > I'm sorry Terry, but I can't parse this to save my life. The only difference > between FreeBSD's magic NIS override handling and SunOS's handling (that I > can tell from looking at the Sun man pages and observing SunOS's behavior) > is that FreeBSD remaps the UID and GID fields and SunOS doesn't. (There's > another difference which is that FreeBSD will also remap the extra > fields in master.passwd-style password files, but since there is no > direct analogue to master.passwd in SunOS, it's difficult to say whether > this behavior is correct or not.) Start paddling, then 8-). The BSD problem is that there is no manual. This wouldn't really be a problem, except that: > The wildcard entry (+::0:0::: in SunOS or +::::::::: in FreeBSD) should > _not_ require any special handling in pwd_mkdb. It's just another magic > NIS entry like all the others, except, being a wildcard, it matches > against everybody. You don't believe me? Go to any NIS client machine and > change +::0:0::: to +:*:0:0::: and see what happens; all users NIS users > will have '*' as their password. Now go to FreeBSD and do the same thing; > again, all passwords will be remapped to '*'. The BSD mechanism doesn't match anyones mechanism for which there is a manual. This would probably be fixable at system configuration time if there was a way to ask about NIS and add the entries without user intervention and the need for "magic" knowledge. One possible mechanism is "NIS" and "NONIS" arguments to pwmkdb and never exporting the NIS stuff to user editable fields. This isn't a general soloution unless there's a "vigroup" to go with "vipw", or the following suggestion is implemented to change library behaviour without any passwd/group file entries at all: > The only way I can see to resolve this is to create an /etc/nis.conf file > that lets you configure FreeBSD's NIS behavior just like /etc/host.conf > lets you configure the resolver. Now *this* is a good idea. > nis_use_master_passwd_maps=yes > nis_freebsd_style_netgroups=yes > nis_remap_all_passwd_fields=yes > > Those are the three main issues I can think of for now. If people > think this is a good idea, now's the time to speak up so that I can > start working on it and get all the man pages in order. Suggestions > for other options would be welcome too. # Set this to 'yes' if you want to have NIS propagate long UID and GID # fields. This should be set to 'no' if you have even one single machine # in your NIS domain that uses 16 bit UID or GID fields! # nis_allow_big_ids=no Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 11:41:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18485 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:41:39 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18479 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:41:35 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA04548; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 04:40:07 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 04:40:07 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507201840.EAA04548@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Subject: Re: ramspeed results - ?? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I picked up ramspeed from this list a week ago or so. Ran it last night. >1> Don't know how long it took, but it was over 90 minutes. >2> iT's 486DX66, BT SCSI2 VLB controller, 8 MB memory >Results - > 49005fb0 44.464 uS/op 2.25e+04 op/sec 0.086 mb/sec > 8938c0df 44.845 uS/op 2.23e+04 op/sec 0.085 mb/sec >What is this telling me. How does it compare? Is the 3rd a disk swap rate >or something? This tells me that ramspeed was thrashing and testing vm instead of real memory. I think it assumes either 16MB or 32MB of memory. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 11:48:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id LAA18694 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:48:00 -0700 Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (eldorado.net-tel.co.uk [193.122.171.253]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA18687 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:47:55 -0700 From: FreeBSD@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) id TAA04785 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:47:17 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Thu, 20 Jul 95 19:46:56 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Thu, 20 Jul 95 18:46:53 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=Net-Tel/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Thu, 20 Jul 95 19:46:30 +0100 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=Net-Tel/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:16488-950720184630-3201] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: FreeBSD@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 19:46:30 +0100 Content-Identifier: Re: timeouts on Message-Id: <"hst:16488-950720184630-3201*/S=FreeBSD/O=NET-TEL Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=Net-Tel/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <"SunOS:3994-950720153445-0192*/DD.RFC-822=hackers-owner(a)freebsd.org/O=internet/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/"@MHS> Subject: Re: timeouts on 'netstat' for address->name lookups? Reply-To: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk While 75sec may well be too long for netstat, 2sec timeout is too short IMHO - your argument about nameservers assumes that you are runing a nameserver locally. If your nameserver is, for example, at the other end of a dialup PPP link, the two second timeout would very frequently fail to get the answer even when things were working normally [OK, I know I ought to set up a caching-only nameserver on my machine at home, but I've never got around to it...]. For me, somthing in the range 5-10 sec would be OK, though this feels like the sort of issue where you can't find a value to please everybody. And as someone else said, there's always netstat -n.... Andrew. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 13:06:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA21005 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:06:09 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA20999 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:06:02 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id GAA06089; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:01:23 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:01:23 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507202001.GAA06089@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > 1) in an xterm, while scrolling, the system sometimes and totally >> > unreproducable just hangs. This seems to occur more often the smaller >> ... >> Move sio3 off of irq 7. >> >> IRQ 7 is the garbage interrupt for untrapped interrupts. >I wasn't aware of this ! Perhaps because it isn't true. IRQ 7 is the interrupt for garbage trapped interrupts. Using it for sio shouldn't cause a hang. Sio will ignore any extra interrupts and recover from others. OTOH if the interrupt was for a driver that doesn't recover from lost interrupts, then that driver may hang. It is best to leave IRQ7 disconnected so that its default interrupt handler can warn about the missed interrupt. The warning is usually lost in other ways - by using the interrupt for a printer, or by warnings being turned off after 5. Some systems used to generate streams of warnings. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 13:35:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22022 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:35:29 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22015 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:35:25 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09749; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:35:17 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507202035.NAA09749@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ramspeed results - ?? To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Jul 20, 95 01:50:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1317 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I picked up ramspeed from this list a week ago or so. Ran it last night. > 1> Don't know how long it took, but it was over 90 minutes. :-(. > 2> iT's 486DX66, BT SCSI2 VLB controller, 8 MB memory ^^^^^^^^^^^ That code as supplied requires at least 8MB of totally free and unused memory or you machine pages faults and swaps to death. This means you need a machine with at least 12MB and usually more like 16MB to run it as supplied. > > Results - > 49005fb0 44.464 uS/op 2.25e+04 op/sec 0.086 mb/sec > 8938c0df 44.845 uS/op 2.23e+04 op/sec 0.085 mb/sec > > What is this telling me. How does it compare? Is the 3rd a disk swap rate > or something? It is meaningless given the configuration. All 3 result values are the same result just expressed in 3 different ways, they all have very simply mathmatical relations and given any 1 of them I can calculate the other 2. Change: #define TESTSIZE (8192*1024) to something like #define TESTSIZE (4096*1024) And boot your system single user to run the test to maximize the free memory pool and to make sure that no vm page fragmentation has happened. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 13:36:12 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22076 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:36:12 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22069 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:36:10 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09723; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:28:33 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507202028.NAA09723@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Stacey) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507201719.TAA13031@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Stacey" at Jul 20, 95 07:19:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 730 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > here is the diff to correct this bug: > > [Now, was that so hard to fix???? :-) :-)] > > Well done :-) Actually it has a bug too, it assumes src and ports are sitting side by side. I caught this when you pointed on the symlink from /usr/src/ports -> /usr/ports or where ever it may be. DO NOT apply my patch, it is not a general solution to the problem :-(. And infact for anyone who has symlinked /usr/src off some place will probably be the wrong solution :-(. Need more time to think about this to see if I can come up with a real solution. Any ideas??? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 13:37:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22150 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:37:35 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22142 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:37:32 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA02882; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:37:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:37:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199507202037.NAA02882@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com CC: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507202028.NAA09723@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * Actually it has a bug too, it assumes src and ports are sitting * side by side. I caught this when you pointed on the symlink * from /usr/src/ports -> /usr/ports or where ever it may be. * * DO NOT apply my patch, it is not a general solution to the * problem :-(. And infact for anyone who has symlinked /usr/src * off some place will probably be the wrong solution :-(. * * Need more time to think about this to see if I can come up with * a real solution. Any ideas??? That's right, many people have /usr/src -> /a/src and /usr/ports -> /b/ports kinds of setups. The only way to "solve" this is to use the full pathname "/usr/ports" in there, but then it will screw up people who have src and ports side by side on a separate location. I'd prefer it nuked, it just doesn't belong here. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 14:04:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA23879 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:04:15 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA23871 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:04:11 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA09826; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:03:38 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507202103.OAA09826@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507202037.NAA02882@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jul 20, 95 01:37:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1237 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > * Actually it has a bug too, it assumes src and ports are sitting > * side by side. I caught this when you pointed on the symlink > * from /usr/src/ports -> /usr/ports or where ever it may be. > * > * DO NOT apply my patch, it is not a general solution to the > * problem :-(. And infact for anyone who has symlinked /usr/src > * off some place will probably be the wrong solution :-(. > * > * Need more time to think about this to see if I can come up with > * a real solution. Any ideas??? > > That's right, many people have /usr/src -> /a/src and /usr/ports -> > /b/ports kinds of setups. > > The only way to "solve" this is to use the full pathname "/usr/ports" > in there, but then it will screw up people who have src and ports side > by side on a separate location. > > I'd prefer it nuked, it just doesn't belong here. Then neither does the assumption in bsd.ports.mk that /usr/ports is the root of the ports tree :-(. That is after all what started this whole thread, that bsd.port.mk and /usr/src/Makefile where in disagreement about locations. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 14:14:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA24546 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:14:24 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA24539 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:14:22 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA02916; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:14:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:14:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199507202114.OAA02916@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com CC: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507202103.OAA09826@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * > I'd prefer it nuked, it just doesn't belong here. * * Then neither does the assumption in bsd.ports.mk that /usr/ports is * the root of the ports tree :-(. That is after all what started this * whole thread, that bsd.port.mk and /usr/src/Makefile where in disagreement * about locations. bsd.ports.mk does not assume that the ports tree is located at /usr/ports, it is just the default and can be changed by PORTSDIR. (Or, more precisely, PORTSDIR is set to /usr/ports in bsd.ports.mk if not defined by the user, and that's the root of the ports tree.) If we read bsd.port.mk from /usr/src/Makefile *before* the lines in question, we can use PORTSDIR to build the ports as part of make world. But we don't. Can I nuke them please? The main source tree and the ports tree are two different beasts, it just doesn't make much sense to assume anything about where they should be on a user's machine. Especially if the "problem" can be solved by a 2-line shell script or a shell command with three semicolons. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 14:33:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25305 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:33:38 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25297 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:33:27 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA09908; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:32:31 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507202132.OAA09908@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507202114.OAA02916@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jul 20, 95 02:14:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2872 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > * > I'd prefer it nuked, it just doesn't belong here. > * > * Then neither does the assumption in bsd.ports.mk that /usr/ports is > * the root of the ports tree :-(. That is after all what started this > * whole thread, that bsd.port.mk and /usr/src/Makefile where in disagreement > * about locations. > > bsd.ports.mk does not assume that the ports tree is located at > /usr/ports, it is just the default and can be changed by PORTSDIR. > (Or, more precisely, PORTSDIR is set to /usr/ports in bsd.ports.mk if > not defined by the user, and that's the root of the ports tree.) > > If we read bsd.port.mk from /usr/src/Makefile *before* the lines in > question, we can use PORTSDIR to build the ports as part of make > world. But we don't. > > Can I nuke them please? The main source tree and the ports tree are > two different beasts, it just doesn't make much sense to assume > anything about where they should be on a user's machine. Especially ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > if the "problem" can be solved by a 2-line shell script or a shell > command with three semicolons. I can not go with nuking them, some sites have become acustom to what we have. Perhaps the default value of PORTSDIR should move to a more visible location. Your missing a lot of the context and everything that went into the initial work to put that stuff in there, this was not just some half cocked lets go off and add this. It was discussed and reviewed, changed and envolved for about a 2 week period before it ever got added. That is why those lines are .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(../ports) & exists(../ports/Makefile) and not something much simpler but more error prone. [Oopppss.. my patched version of the file above :-)] Now, the new ports stuff has changed the picture a little and we need to deal with it, not just go nuke it! The argument that that /usr/src should know nothing about /usr/ports is a strawman, as bsd.port.mk lives there along with several other bits. Ideally, sure it would be nice if it didn't know a thing about it. Practical view point, next to imposible to achive the ideal. And as Joerg pointed out /usr/src/ports -> whereever makes the current code just do the right thing, and that was more or less the original intent. If someone wanted there ports collection autobuilt during a make world they just added the symlink and set MAKE_PORTS and boom, bigger longer running more complete ``make world''. You'll also notice all sorts of things in src/Makefile to handle the fact that src/ports may very well be a symbolic link, so this is not an ``after the fact'' side effect, it was designed that way. [gee, 60 lines of comments to defend 10 lines of code :-(] -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 15:41:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA27733 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:41:29 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA27726 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:41:20 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA01825; Thu, 20 Jul 95 15:39:39 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA28108; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:39:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA03568; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:45:20 GMT Message-Id: <199507201845.SAA03568@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: hd@omnilink.net (Hannes Deeken) Subject: MultiPort PCI Enet Cards X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:45:19 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just thought I'd send a bit of status about my experiences with MultiPort PCI Enet Cards since I know there are folks who want them. Since I finally got a system that understands PCI-PCI Bridges (PPB) and configures them properly, I've been experimenting with the DE436 4 port UTP DC21040 that DEC decided not to sell. The DE436 allows the interrupt lines to strap everything to either INT A, INT B, or spread the DC21040s from INT A to INT B. I've been using the later setting just fine. The DE436 operates just fine as would operate fine in router (if you could buy it that is). SMC sent me a EtherPower^2 which is dual DC21040s behind a PPB. (think of it as half of a DE436 but it comes in UTP only [SMC8434T] and UTP/BNC [SMC8434BT] flavors.) It's been running fine since I fixed a problem with the configuration of multiple PPBs in a system. I can't think of any reason not to use it (though the fasct it only has two ports instead of one might be a problem). CogentData has been less than helpful about trying to figure out what do to get the Cogent EMaster 800+ to configure. Sigh. I'm still waiting for input from Zynx... (need to poke them again). Also, the DC21041 is now supported by the de driver (DEC DE450 and SMC8432E are two of the cards that use it.) [DEC and SMC have been great in their support of my work.] Cheers, Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: Westford, MA Disclaimer: Digital disavows all knowledge of this message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 15:58:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA28065 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:58:39 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA28059 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:58:36 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA03752; Thu, 20 Jul 95 16:50:53 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507202250.AA03752@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 16:50:53 MDT Cc: hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507202001.GAA06089@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 21, 95 06:01:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> > 1) in an xterm, while scrolling, the system sometimes and totally > >> > unreproducable just hangs. This seems to occur more often the smaller > >> ... > >> Move sio3 off of irq 7. > >> > >> IRQ 7 is the garbage interrupt for untrapped interrupts. > > >I wasn't aware of this ! > > Perhaps because it isn't true. IRQ 7 is the interrupt for garbage > trapped interrupts. ------ > Using it for sio shouldn't cause a hang. Sio will > ignore any extra interrupts and recover from others. ------ I wasn't aware of this ! I thought that sio did wierd things in it's probe to cause the interrupt to be generated (a message to that effect from you a couple of days ago is what gave me that impression). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 16:11:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA28355 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:11:33 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA28274 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:10:17 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA10166; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:05:19 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507202305.QAA10166@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: MultiPort PCI Enet Cards To: matt@lkg.dec.com (Matt Thomas) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hd@omnilink.net In-Reply-To: <199507201845.SAA03568@whydos.lkg.dec.com> from "Matt Thomas" at Jul 20, 95 06:45:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 987 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > CogentData has been less than helpful about trying to figure out what do > to get the Cogent EMaster 800+ to configure. Sigh. What is a Cogent Emaster 800+ ???? > > I'm still waiting for input from Zynx... (need to poke them again). > > Also, the DC21041 is now supported by the de driver (DEC DE450 and SMC8432E > are two of the cards that use it.) What is a DC21041? New version of DC21040 or different features? > [DEC and SMC have been great in their support of my work.] Great, glad to here that, SMC has always been a good product to buy when doing ``unix'', and I am glad to here they continue to do the right things to make sure there products get supported by us! Now would someone buy this stack of SMC9332 10/100MB/s cards sitting behind me??? :-) :-) $156/each qty 1, ask about deals on 2 or more... -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 16:22:02 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA28845 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:22:02 -0700 Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com [16.1.0.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA28839 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:22:00 -0700 Received: from muggsy.lkg.dec.com by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (5.65/24Feb95) id AA29747; Thu, 20 Jul 95 16:19:38 -0700 Received: from whydos.lkg.dec.com by muggsy.lkg.dec.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) with SMTP id AA28173; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:19:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whydos.lkg.dec.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA03819; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:25:12 GMT Message-Id: <199507201925.TAA03819@whydos.lkg.dec.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whydos.lkg.dec.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hd@omnilink.net Subject: Re: MultiPort PCI Enet Cards In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:05:19 MST." <199507202305.QAA10166@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5omega 10/6/94 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:25:11 +0000 From: Matt Thomas Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > CogentData has been less than helpful about trying to figure out what do > > to get the Cogent EMaster 800+ to configure. Sigh. > > What is a Cogent Emaster 800+ ???? A 4 port DC21040 PCI board. > > > > I'm still waiting for input from Zynx... (need to poke them again). > > > > Also, the DC21041 is now supported by the de driver (DEC DE450 and SMC8432E > > are two of the cards that use it.) > > What is a DC21041? New version of DC21040 or different features? A new version of the DC21040. It uses the SROM like the DC21140 (and some other features from the 21140). It also has optional boot-rom support as well as better media detection capabilities and better support for big-endian machines. Matt Thomas Internet: matt@lkg.dec.com 3am Software Foundry WWW URL: Westford, MA Disclaimer: Digital disavows all knowledge of this message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 16:36:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA29132 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:36:05 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29126 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:35:57 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id JAA10951; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:31:01 +1000 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:31:01 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507202331.JAA10951@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hm@ernie.altona.hamburg.com Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Perhaps because it isn't true. IRQ 7 is the interrupt for garbage >> trapped interrupts. >------ >> Using it for sio shouldn't cause a hang. Sio will >> ignore any extra interrupts and recover from others. >------ >I wasn't aware of this ! >I thought that sio did wierd things in it's probe to cause the interrupt >to be generated (a message to that effect from you a couple of days ago >is what gave me that impression). Only in the probe. It actually does weird things to cause the interrupt to NOT be generated so that it can test the interrupt-pending bit in the 8259. I didn't remember the interrupt glitch problem when I wrote the probe. Interrupt glitches are not maskable in the 8259. The probe disables interrupts in both the cpu and the 8259, but DELAY() reenables them in the cpu and glitches are maskable in the 8259. This problem also affects siointrts, the nonstandard version of siointr that does timestamps. BTW, our NMI handling is very broken. The NMI handler is a trap gate but should be an interrupt gate, and the normal trap and interrupt entry code isn't quite right for it (interrupts probably need to be reenabled - DELAY() may do it even if you don't want it - and the NMI may recurse after the each iret from a normal interrupt or trap handler). Fortunately NMIs are rare. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 16:37:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA29211 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:37:07 -0700 Received: from vinkku.hut.fi (vinkku.hut.fi [130.233.245.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29204 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 16:37:05 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-20.hut.fi (lk-hp-20.hut.fi [130.233.247.32]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) with ESMTP id CAA04093 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:36:55 +0300 From: Juha Inkari Received: (inkari@localhost) by lk-hp-20.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) id CAA14979 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:36:55 +0300 Message-Id: <199507202336.CAA14979@lk-hp-20.hut.fi> Subject: uptimes (was Re: What people are doing with FBSD) To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:36:55 +0200 (EETDST) In-Reply-To: <199507190657.IAA09555@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Jul 19, 95 08:57:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1049 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > non-existant source management, and probably some history. FreeBSD gets > > hurt badly by unstability, not much change to "sell" FreeBSD to anyone as > > long as the longest uptimes are weeks. > I see consistently uptimes of 50+ days on all our server/workstations. > These system only crash when there is a power outage (no UPSs here). I see a 138 days uptime on a NetBSD 1.0 box, up since the last blackout. It has done better than a somewhat similar setup on same sort of jobs that runs Dell SVR4 (a few crashes). I also run NetBSD and FreeBSD current versions, that do fairly well too, but ofcourse get booted after new kernel builds. The guilty part for unstability could be flakey or buggy hardware, too. How does one measure OS stability anyway ? If we compare uptime values, the system must operate under a load that can be reproduced on several test runs. And stability would be better expressed with a figure that depends on the number of tasks performed, than with a figure that gets better each second the system sits idle. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 17:53:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA00913 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:53:07 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA00907 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:53:05 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA03950; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:57:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:57:43 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507210057.RAA03950@lightlink.satcom.net> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes. I am interested. I would like to see sysinstall can fdisk and disklabel the second hard disk. Or to upgrade the old version to a newer version w/o reinstalling the whole new system. It is a big problem with me to upgrade since I have to resinstalling the whole new system. Tony From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 17:59:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA01174 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:59:39 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA01168 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:59:37 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA12095; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:59:01 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA03750; Thu, 20 Jul 95 20:59:22 EDT Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 20:59:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ramspeed results - ?? In-Reply-To: <199507202035.NAA09749@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I saw that this would swap itself to death when I first inspected the code. I asked Poul-Henning Kamp about the malloc size and received: >For the results to be comparable you cannot change that number. >If you want to run it with less memory, you also need to remove the >checksum check's later. > >>> IF YOU CHANGE IT: DO NOT PUBLISH YOUR NUMBERS !!! <<< i did mention that I had only 8MB of memory. If the checksum fails, I don't think anything will be reported. And will the summary results (uSec/op) values really be comparable? I think I will modify the block size, remove the checksum checks and see what I get. What order of magnitude seems reasonable? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > I picked up ramspeed from this list a week ago or so. Ran it last night. > > 1> Don't know how long it took, but it was over 90 minutes. > > :-(. > > > 2> iT's 486DX66, BT SCSI2 VLB controller, 8 MB memory > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > That code as supplied requires at least 8MB of totally free > and unused memory or you machine pages faults and swaps to > death. This means you need a machine with at least 12MB and > usually more like 16MB to run it as supplied. > > > > > Results - > > 49005fb0 44.464 uS/op 2.25e+04 op/sec 0.086 mb/sec > > 8938c0df 44.845 uS/op 2.23e+04 op/sec 0.085 mb/sec > > > > What is this telling me. How does it compare? Is the 3rd a disk swap rate > > or something? > > It is meaningless given the configuration. All 3 result values are > the same result just expressed in 3 different ways, they all have > very simply mathmatical relations and given any 1 of them I can > calculate the other 2. > > Change: > #define TESTSIZE (8192*1024) > > to something like > #define TESTSIZE (4096*1024) > > And boot your system single user to run the test to maximize the > free memory pool and to make sure that no vm page fragmentation > has happened. > > > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 18:23:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA01505 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:23:30 -0700 Received: from forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.33.75]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA01499 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:23:29 -0700 Received: (from asami@localhost) by forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA03025; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:23:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:23:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199507210123.SAA03025@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com CC: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199507202132.OAA09908@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> (rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com) Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * I can not go with nuking them, some sites have become acustom to * what we have. That's true, but we need to try to clean up our source tree once in a while, and /usr/src/Makefile is already 300+ lines long. If it isn't used that much and this can be changed without much pain (how many sites are actually using them?), I think we should nuke it. Browsing through /usr/src/Makefile is already enough pain without this. ;) * Perhaps the default value of * PORTSDIR should move to a more visible location. That's an idea, we can put it in /etc/make.conf 'cause then anything can pick it up. If it's really necessary, that is. * Your missing a lot of the context and everything that went into * the initial work to put that stuff in there, this was not just * some half cocked lets go off and add this. It was discussed and * reviewed, changed and envolved for about a 2 week period before * it ever got added. I did look at the cvs log even before I sent out the original message. I couldn't find anything there, so I assume it went in before the 4.4 switch, is this correct? * Now, the new ports stuff has changed the picture a little and we * need to deal with it, not just go nuke it! Well, one thing is that the older ports paradigm is different from the new one. It's not only the location, it uses a pretty much different way to build the thing, we don't have the source under there anymore, etc. * The argument that that /usr/src should know nothing about /usr/ports * is a strawman, as bsd.port.mk lives there along with several other * bits. Ideally, sure it would be nice if it didn't know a thing about * it. Practical view point, next to imposible to achive the ideal. Now that's an argument for the sake of an argument. Sure the *source* of bsd.port.mk is in /usr/src, but it is installed in /usr/share and that's what we are using. I'm not saying /usr/src shouldn't know anything about /usr/ports, I'm saying /usr/src/Makefile should't. /usr/src/Makefile's job is to build the operating system, and it just happens that one of the utilities (BSD make, well actually some if its macros that we added) knows something about the ports. * And as Joerg pointed out /usr/src/ports -> whereever makes the * current code just do the right thing, and that was more or less * the original intent. If someone wanted there ports collection * autobuilt during a make world they just added the symlink and * set MAKE_PORTS and boom, bigger longer running more complete * ``make world''. Maybe I should say that ports is not a subdirectory or a subsidiary of any sort of /usr/src. That's why I keep saying "this doesn't belong here". And if you want to do it "boom", you can just type "make world && cd /usr/ports && make". :) Why didn't we go this route in the first place? * You'll also notice all sorts of things in src/Makefile to handle * the fact that src/ports may very well be a symbolic link, so this * is not an ``after the fact'' side effect, it was designed that * way. Well, the stuff about the obj links and stuff are useless. We don't have them in the ports tree (and I don't think we ever had). * [gee, 60 lines of comments to defend 10 lines of code :-(] I don't understand why it's so hard to get my point across, this thing just doesn't belong in /usr/src/Makefile and never should have been put in. We don't have a link /usr/src -> wherever/ports, we don't even have /usr/ports installed as part of the base system (I want this to be fixed though). This problem should have been solved by the user typing both commands from the command line, not by adding cruft to our /usr/src/Makefile, and I don't think it's too late to clean it up. I understand that this thing was designed carefully, it will work beautifully (minus the ports tree not actually building very well :<) if you have the right symlinks and stuff, and I apologize for hurting the feelings of the people who worked hard to add it here and make it work right. But lately our Makefiles and *.mk files are getting way too complicated, we need to try to reduce their complexity, that's why I barked at Jordan when he added a new variable instead of deleting a few lines. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 18:31:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA01766 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:31:27 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA01760 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:31:26 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA13169; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:30:54 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA03822; Thu, 20 Jul 95 21:31:15 EDT Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 21:31:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ramspeed results - in 4MB In-Reply-To: <199507202035.NAA09749@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk *************************************** ***** Modified ramspeed results ***** ***** TESTSIZE = 4096 * 1024 ***** 8 MB real memory. iT's 486DX2-33 Runtime 535 seconds 1.874 uS/op 5.33e+05 op/S 2.035 Mb 0.935 1.07e+06 4.079 Now, this says a memory access takes 1.874 uS ? Where does this fall on the continum? Are these results comparable to the ones reported when using the 8MB TESTSIZE? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 18:36:46 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA02053 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:36:46 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA02042 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:36:44 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.18]) by Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00506; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:36:11 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA06989; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:37:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199507210137.SAA06989@corbin.Root.COM> To: Matt Thomas cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hd@omnilink.net (Hannes Deeken) Subject: Re: MultiPort PCI Enet Cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jul 95 18:45:19 -0000." <199507201845.SAA03568@whydos.lkg.dec.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:37:05 -0700 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Also, the DC21041 is now supported by the de driver (DEC DE450 and SMC8432E >are two of the cards that use it.) I received your new code, but haven't had a chance to review it and commit the changes to CVS. I hope to get to this soon. Thanks for the information. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 19:01:32 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA02675 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:01:32 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA02669 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:01:26 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA10376; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:01:35 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507210201.TAA10376@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ramspeed results - ?? To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Jul 20, 95 08:59:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3941 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I saw that this would swap itself to death when I first inspected the > code. I asked Poul-Henning Kamp about the malloc size and received: > > >For the results to be comparable you cannot change that number. > >If you want to run it with less memory, you also need to remove the > >checksum check's later. > > > >>> IF YOU CHANGE IT: DO NOT PUBLISH YOUR NUMBERS !!! <<< Though it is true you can't easily compare numbers of modified benchmarks, so very few people report enough information that makes the data usefull anyway. There are only a few million things that effect this data that I doubt one more would be significant, especially if it was clearly marked (and since the checksum value would be wrong, well....] ram-speed is not a good benchmark, plain and simple. It was written to do one small set of test conditions and if you can't meet the conditions I suggest you don't use it as a benchmark. Instead go get something more comprehensive like lmbench. > i did mention that I had only 8MB of memory. If the checksum fails, I > don't think anything will be reported. And will the summary results > (uSec/op) values really be comparable? For a 486DX2/66, I don't know the uSec/op number off the top of my head, but the MB/sec should be in the 5 to 15 range, unless you have an ASUS PCI/I-486SP3G, then it should be 14 for writting and 31 for reading, or well, thats the values for a DX4/100, but CPU speed should not drastically effect this test for the same cpu family and same external bus clock frequency. > > I think I will modify the block size, remove the checksum checks and see > what I get. What order of magnitude seems reasonable? > > ==================================================== > Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | > rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | > | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | > | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | > | by Anderson & Heinze | > ==================================================== > On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > > I picked up ramspeed from this list a week ago or so. Ran it last night. > > > 1> Don't know how long it took, but it was over 90 minutes. > > > > :-(. > > > > > 2> iT's 486DX66, BT SCSI2 VLB controller, 8 MB memory > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > That code as supplied requires at least 8MB of totally free > > and unused memory or you machine pages faults and swaps to > > death. This means you need a machine with at least 12MB and > > usually more like 16MB to run it as supplied. > > > > > > > > Results - > > > 49005fb0 44.464 uS/op 2.25e+04 op/sec 0.086 mb/sec > > > 8938c0df 44.845 uS/op 2.23e+04 op/sec 0.085 mb/sec > > > > > > What is this telling me. How does it compare? Is the 3rd a disk swap rate > > > or something? > > > > It is meaningless given the configuration. All 3 result values are > > the same result just expressed in 3 different ways, they all have > > very simply mathmatical relations and given any 1 of them I can > > calculate the other 2. > > > > Change: > > #define TESTSIZE (8192*1024) > > > > to something like > > #define TESTSIZE (4096*1024) > > > > And boot your system single user to run the test to maximize the > > free memory pool and to make sure that no vm page fragmentation > > has happened. > > > > > > > > -- > > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com > > Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD > > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 19:23:05 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA03096 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:23:05 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA03090 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:23:01 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA10403; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:23:10 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507210223.TAA10403@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Strange entries in /usr/src/Makefile To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507210123.SAA03025@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jul 20, 95 06:23:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 8229 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > * I can not go with nuking them, some sites have become acustom to > * what we have. > > That's true, but we need to try to clean up our source tree once in a > while, and /usr/src/Makefile is already 300+ lines long. If it isn't > used that much and this can be changed without much pain (how many > sites are actually using them?), I think we should nuke it. Browsing > through /usr/src/Makefile is already enough pain without this. ;) If you think /usr/src/Makefile is complicated, go read release/Makefile for some enjoyment... Or how about this for a comparitive, the length of bsd.port.mk is almost as long as the sum of all the other .mk files combined :-) File length is a pretty meaningless metric. Building the src tree is a complicated process. Removing 6 lines in 300 is insignificant. > * Perhaps the default value of > * PORTSDIR should move to a more visible location. > > That's an idea, we can put it in /etc/make.conf 'cause then anything > can pick it up. If it's really necessary, that is. /etc/make.conf would probably be the right place, it is a per site type of value. > * Your missing a lot of the context and everything that went into > * the initial work to put that stuff in there, this was not just > * some half cocked lets go off and add this. It was discussed and > * reviewed, changed and envolved for about a 2 week period before > * it ever got added. > > I did look at the cvs log even before I sent out the original > message. I couldn't find anything there, so I assume it went in > before the 4.4 switch, is this correct? Yes, it did, here is some of the rcs log that effected the change: ---------------------------- revision 1.33 date: 1994/01/26 03:50:15; author: rgrimes; state: Exp; lines: +9 -1 I cleaned this up and applied it. >From: Julian Howard Stacey Subject: patch for src/Makefile as find obj on local & ports failed Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 17:20:10 +0100 Here's a patch for src/Makefile as find obj on local & ports failed in the case that src/local or src/ports was a sym link ---------------------------- revision 1.32 date: 1994/01/11 08:06:49; author: rgrimes; state: Exp; lines: +11 -1 Added the following so that people can have these built automatically if they like: # This is for people who want to have src/ports, src/local built # automatically. .if defined(MAKE_LOCAL) & exists(local) & exists(local/Makefile) SUBDIR+= local .endif .if defined(MAKE_PORTS) & exists(ports) & exists(ports/Makefile) SUBDIR+= ports .endif ---------------------------- > * Now, the new ports stuff has changed the picture a little and we > * need to deal with it, not just go nuke it! > > Well, one thing is that the older ports paradigm is different from > the new one. It's not only the location, it uses a pretty much > different way to build the thing, we don't have the source under there > anymore, etc. This should not effect the desire to have make world do the whole tree, the src tree build paradigm may very well change some day, so what, it does not effect this issue, nor should it. Building is building. > * The argument that that /usr/src should know nothing about /usr/ports > * is a strawman, as bsd.port.mk lives there along with several other > * bits. Ideally, sure it would be nice if it didn't know a thing about > * it. Practical view point, next to imposible to achive the ideal. > > Now that's an argument for the sake of an argument. Sure the *source* > of bsd.port.mk is in /usr/src, but it is installed in /usr/share and > that's what we are using. No, that is not ``an argument for the sake of an argument''. It is a statement of reality. Your point that it is in /usr/share means that the ports mechanism has contaiminted a standard part of the system, only makeing the case stronger that the ideal can not be achived. > I'm not saying /usr/src shouldn't know anything about /usr/ports, I'm > saying /usr/src/Makefile should't. /usr/src/Makefile's job is to > build the operating system, and it just happens that one of the > utilities (BSD make, well actually some if its macros that we added) > knows something about the ports. /usr/src/Makefile's job is what we make it do, it is sad that you where not here 1.5 years ago when this decission was made. And I still agree with the original arguments and concerns that where expressed back then. I do not like the fact we have to repeat history every 2 years and make decissions over and over. This has become a waste of time, and I no longer really care what happens to those 6 lines, but you will be reversing a decission that has a 2 year standing precedent by doing so. > * And as Joerg pointed out /usr/src/ports -> whereever makes the > * current code just do the right thing, and that was more or less > * the original intent. If someone wanted there ports collection > * autobuilt during a make world they just added the symlink and > * set MAKE_PORTS and boom, bigger longer running more complete > * ``make world''. > > Maybe I should say that ports is not a subdirectory or a subsidiary of > any sort of /usr/src. That's why I keep saying "this doesn't belong > here". And if you want to do it "boom", you can just type "make world > && cd /usr/ports && make". :) Why didn't we go this route in the > first place? Because ``make world'' is shorter, and the actual sequence of events will be slightly different for you 2 sets of commands. If you really want to know, go dig it out of the mail archive. Ports is a subsidiary of /usr/src, just as / is, the whole bloddy FreeBSD world is a subsidiary of /usr/src. Why are you arguing so hard over 4 lines of code that are in effect a nop for most sites, and give others some added funcitonality. > * You'll also notice all sorts of things in src/Makefile to handle > * the fact that src/ports may very well be a symbolic link, so this > * is not an ``after the fact'' side effect, it was designed that > * way. > > Well, the stuff about the obj links and stuff are useless. We don't > have them in the ports tree (and I don't think we ever had). Then again, this is ports changing without propery keeping src in sync with the changes in the paradigm. > * [gee, 60 lines of comments to defend 10 lines of code :-(] > > I don't understand why it's so hard to get my point across, this thing > just doesn't belong in /usr/src/Makefile and never should have been > put in. We don't have a link /usr/src -> wherever/ports, we don't > even have /usr/ports installed as part of the base system (I want this > to be fixed though). Because this point was argued 2 years ago, and you seem to be the only one mounting a case to change it (and I the only one in it's defense because I was there when it was done and know it took a lot of convincing to get it added, but it was a _group_ decission to do it.) Your just too late!!! > This problem should have been solved by the user typing both commands > from the command line, not by adding cruft to our /usr/src/Makefile, > and I don't think it's too late to clean it up. Give a user a feature and take it away later and they will be mad at you about it, plain and simple. I don't like mad users. > I understand that this thing was designed carefully, it will work > beautifully (minus the ports tree not actually building very well :<) > if you have the right symlinks and stuff, and I apologize for hurting > the feelings of the people who worked hard to add it here and make it > work right. > > But lately our Makefiles and *.mk files are getting way too > complicated, we need to try to reduce their complexity, that's why I > barked at Jordan when he added a new variable instead of deleting a > few lines. If you want to go work on something getting ``way too complicated'' work on what you have been. bsd.port.mk by and far is the most complicated make related thing we have in the tree!! /usr/src/Makefile is trivial compared to it. Wanting to remove complexity is a good goal, but never at the cost of functionality. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 20:50:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA05765 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 20:50:00 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA05754 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 20:49:57 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA10144 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 20:49:47 -0700 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA21436; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:48:32 -0500 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 20 Jul 95 22:48 CDT Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA00203; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:48:26 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507210348.WAA00203@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:48:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507192148.OAA07950@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jul 19, 95 02:48:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2126 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > > > Hi there! > > > > I'd like to set up to get SUP updates of -STABLE, if there is a target for > > it. > > Yes, and there is a sample sup file for getting it. Probably the best > way to get that is to ftp it from the -CURRENT tree (I commited it there > and pulled it into the -STABLE branch). Path name relative to the > base of the -CURRENT src tree is: > src/share/FAQ/extras/stable-supfile > > > Unfortunately for me, I haven't set up SUP before. Anyone got a FAQ for me > > on the way to get this going? > > /usr/share/FAQ/Text/sup.FAQ on any 2.0.5 or later system or > src/share/FAQ/Text/sup.FAQ from a source tree. > > > Thanks in advance! > Your welcome! I guess that -STABLE isn't. I get the same silent hang on the 1742 machine that I get on the other releases, and we've added a panic in biodone to the mix. The 2742 driver problems are not addressed in -STABLE either. -CURRENT is incompatible with anything that touches the NFS areas, unless I want to start completely over and reload the ENTIRE system. Since -CURRENT is such a moving target, this isn't really a good option either, especially when I have no idea when or if -CURRENT is stable. So right now, we have -RELEASE which doesn't run right, -STABLE which isn't, and a -CURRENT which kernels blow up when tickled by -RELEASE's binaries during the startup of NFS and amd. This is getting frustrating, and I'm running out of time and patience. Perhaps this isn't the path we want to go down with our operating system choice. I'm going to give this another week of effort, and if we don't have it stable by then I'm tossing in the towel and going to start on the evaluation process again from scratch. This is costing me far too much sleep. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL AP Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 21:40:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA06701 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 21:40:57 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA06695 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 21:40:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA21966; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:40:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199507210440.WAA21966@rover.village.org> To: Juha Inkari Subject: Re: uptimes (was Re: What people are doing with FBSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:36:55 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:40:31 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : How does one measure OS stability anyway ? If we compare uptime : values, the system must operate under a load that can be reproduced on : several test runs. And stability would be better expressed with a : figure that depends on the number of tasks performed, than with a : figure that gets better each second the system sits idle. I've seen uptimes in the 300-400 day range for a couple of Sun 3's running SunOS 3.5 that were on a UPS about five or six years ago. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 22:04:24 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA07349 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:04:24 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07343 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:04:23 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01787; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:03:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199507210503.WAA01787@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Warner Losh cc: Juha Inkari , freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: uptimes (was Re: What people are doing with FBSD) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:40:31 MDT." <199507210440.WAA21966@rover.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:03:37 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Warner Losh said: > : How does one measure OS stability anyway ? If we compare uptime > : values, the system must operate under a load that can be reproduced on > : several test runs. And stability would be better expressed with a > : figure that depends on the number of tasks performed, than with a > : figure that gets better each second the system sits idle. > > I've seen uptimes in the 300-400 day range for a couple of Sun 3's > running SunOS 3.5 that were on a UPS about five or six years ago. > With FreeBSD 1.1.5 , on one of my contracts my system at work stayed up for three months till it was time to rebuild the kernel for ip multicasting stuff and audio stuff... i read mail ftp stuff, compiled X , isode stuff , used the system for work. Used NFS to get more disk space out of my sun workstation... Alll in all the system was rock solid.... Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 22:29:07 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA08003 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:29:07 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA07993 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:29:04 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA11175; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:29:14 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507210529.WAA11175@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507210348.WAA00203@Jupiter.mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Jul 20, 95 10:48:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3176 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi there! > > > > > > I'd like to set up to get SUP updates of -STABLE, if there is a target for > > > it. > > > > Yes, and there is a sample sup file for getting it. Probably the best > > way to get that is to ftp it from the -CURRENT tree (I commited it there > > and pulled it into the -STABLE branch). Path name relative to the > > base of the -CURRENT src tree is: > > src/share/FAQ/extras/stable-supfile > > > > > Unfortunately for me, I haven't set up SUP before. Anyone got a FAQ for me > > > on the way to get this going? > > > > /usr/share/FAQ/Text/sup.FAQ on any 2.0.5 or later system or > > src/share/FAQ/Text/sup.FAQ from a source tree. > > > > > Thanks in advance! > > Your welcome! > > I guess that -STABLE isn't. It is as stable as we have, it is a slight notch above 2.0.5R, and a far lot more so than 2.2-CURRENT. > I get the same silent hang on the 1742 machine that I get on the other > releases, and we've added a panic in biodone to the mix. The 2742 driver > problems are not addressed in -STABLE either. That is correct, we can't address your 1742/2742 problem in _any_ branch until we find what it is that is causing it. Since we have not identified that problem how could we have fixed it??? > -CURRENT is incompatible with anything that touches the NFS areas, unless I > want to start completely over and reload the ENTIRE system. Since -CURRENT > is such a moving target, this isn't really a good option either, especially > when I have no idea when or if -CURRENT is stable. You made a mistake if you tried to go -CURRENT and you wanted stability, we never recomend -CURRENT for a site that is not willing to suffer through some rather serious problems at time. I don't know if someone told you to try this, or just what, but please, stop using -CURRENT to try and get stabalized, that is the wrong route to go as you have already found out :-(. > So right now, we have -RELEASE which doesn't run right, -STABLE which isn't, > and a -CURRENT which kernels blow up when tickled by -RELEASE's binaries > during the startup of NFS and amd. Mixing -RELEASE and -CURRENT is a no no, it is bound to have problems, and I do not recommend even trying that for any reason ever. > This is getting frustrating, and I'm running out of time and patience. > Perhaps this isn't the path we want to go down with our operating system > choice. Perhaps you should get on the -STABLE branch, stay there, and let us work the problems in _one_ tree. > I'm going to give this another week of effort, and if we don't have it > stable by then I'm tossing in the towel and going to start on the evaluation > process again from scratch. This is costing me far too much sleep. We can't get you stabalized if you change the code faster than I can respond to email :-) Please, compile up a make world from the STABLE sup bits, and lets tackle the bug with the 1742/2742 in that set of code without adding all the other complications of what is going on in -current. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 22:43:31 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA08770 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:43:31 -0700 Received: from sl.relcom.kz (sl.relcom.kz [193.124.114.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA08743 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:43:15 -0700 Received: by sl.relcom.kz id AA05924 (5.65.kiae-1 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:40:22 +0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: Organization: RelcomSL Co. From: "Pavel M. Gusev" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:40:22 +0700 X-Class: Fast Subject: FreeBSD Digiboard driver Lines: 11 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello! I am looking digiboard PC Xe/64(8k) driver for FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP box. Jordan Hubbard says in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc there is some alpha support for this card. Can I be a beta tester for this driver too? Best wishes, -- Pavel Gusev Voice & Fax: +7 (322) 262-4990 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 23:17:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA09750 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:17:16 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA09744 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:17:14 -0700 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA26860; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:17:12 -0500 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 21 Jul 95 00:50 CDT Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA00306; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 00:50:52 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507210550.AAA00306@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 00:50:52 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@Mcs.Net, karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507210529.WAA11175@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jul 20, 95 10:29:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1688 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > That is correct, we can't address your 1742/2742 problem in _any_ branch > until we find what it is that is causing it. Since we have not identified > that problem how could we have fixed it??? I thought Peter said it was a VM issue? Or was I mistaken? > Perhaps you should get on the -STABLE branch, stay there, and let us > work the problems in _one_ tree. That's what I'm going to do -- I'm supping the -STABLE branch right now onto one of our development machines in a place that I can work with it and not blow away anything else. > > I'm going to give this another week of effort, and if we don't have it > > stable by then I'm tossing in the towel and going to start on the evaluation > > process again from scratch. This is costing me far too much sleep. > > We can't get you stabalized if you change the code faster than I can > respond to email :-) Please, compile up a make world from the STABLE > sup bits, and lets tackle the bug with the 1742/2742 in that set of > code without adding all the other complications of what is going on > in -current. We're there right now with the exception of a couple of things that we have hacked (the login program, for instance). I'm grabbing a current copy of -STABLE right now via SUP, and have put that tree on auto-update every 6 hours. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Jul 20 23:30:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA10218 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:30:34 -0700 Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA10198 ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:30:28 -0700 Received: (from peter@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12/DIALix) id OAA03442; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:30:08 +0800 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:30:07 +0800 (WST) From: Peter Wemm To: Karl Denninger cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , karl@Mcs.Net, current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? In-Reply-To: <199507210550.AAA00306@Jupiter.mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Karl Denninger wrote: > > That is correct, we can't address your 1742/2742 problem in _any_ branch > > until we find what it is that is causing it. Since we have not identified > > that problem how could we have fixed it??? > > I thought Peter said it was a VM issue? Or was I mistaken? There's several problems. The "silent death" on the 1742 is/was a buffer cache leak, of which davigd has just recently committed the fix to -stable. IMHO, the 2742 problem is completely unrelated... (Karl, if you have a ncr controller handy, it might be worth trying that and seeing if that works for you.. I seem to recall you mentioning that the box with the 2742 is a new configuration, perhaps it might be worth trying a few an alternatives until the 2742 problem can be found? The ncr controllers should be pretty close in performance to the 2742's from what I've heard. I know it's not the answer to probable software problem, but it might get you out of a jam..) > > Perhaps you should get on the -STABLE branch, stay there, and let us > > work the problems in _one_ tree. > > That's what I'm going to do -- I'm supping the -STABLE branch right now onto > one of our development machines in a place that I can work with it and not > blow away anything else. That's good news... Please dont give up yet, we need to find the bugs you've run into... -Peter > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity > Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland > Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more > Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net > ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 00:29:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA12446 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 00:29:39 -0700 Received: from world-net.sct.fr (world-net.sct.fr [194.2.128.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA12438 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 00:29:36 -0700 Received: from earth (desk1.sct.fr [194.51.76.10]) by world-net.sct.fr (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA29167 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:31:30 +0200 Message-Id: <199507210731.JAA29167@world-net.sct.fr> X-Sender: bourgon@worldnet.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:30:08 -0300 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: bourgon@world-net.sct.fr (Support Technique Worldnet) Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hello, I have tried to get FreeBSD by ftp://ftp.ibp.fr but I receive this message: ' couldn't open FTP anonymous to ftp.ibp.fr '. I don't know how to solve this problem because it's the same problem with any server. PLEASE HELP Renaud. Support Worldnet Worldnet The French Provider Hot Line Technique : 40.37.32.67 Service Commercial : 40.37.90.90 Fax : 40.37.90.89 France, Paris From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 01:03:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA14672 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:03:44 -0700 Received: from listserv.gmd.de (listserv.gmd.de [192.88.97.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA14570 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:01:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199507210801.BAA14570@freefall.cdrom.com> Received: from listserv.gmd.de by listserv.gmd.de (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id 4B73781F ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 9:17:41 +0200 Received: from VM.GMD.DE (MAILER) by DEARNAXP (MX V4.1 AXP) with BSMTP; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:15:19 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin MAILER@ESOC) by VM.GMD.DE (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 9712; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:14:13 +0200 Received: from VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (NJE origin VCAPUANO@ESOC) by VMPROFS.ESOC.ESA.DE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4300; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:14:18 -0500 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 09:11:35 EST From: Vincenzo Capuano Organization: ESA - European Space Agency Subject: New xntpd patches delivery To: jkh@FREEBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Sender: hackers-owner@FREEBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I have put in incoming/new-xntpd.diffs.tar.gz.ok and incoming/new-xntpd.diffs.tar.gz.README.ok the new patches for the Boeder DCF77 Receiver. They are against -current. Ciao, Vincenzo --- Vincenzo Capuano European Space Agency - European Space Operations Centre vcapuano@vmprofs.esoc.esa.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 01:16:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA15055 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:16:55 -0700 Received: (from hsu@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA15048 for hackers; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:16:54 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:16:54 -0700 From: Jeffrey Hsu Message-Id: <199507210816.BAA15048@freefall.cdrom.com> To: hackers Subject: Re: tcpdate correction lost? Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [From the questions mailing list.] > I now want to use 'ntpdate' to keep my clock correct each time > I connect to my ISP. I've tried this and while it does adjust the > clock, it is not a permanent adjustment: rebooting seems to lose > any correction. What happenned to the real time clock driver that was bandied about in the 1.x days? From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 01:18:39 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA15147 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:18:39 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA15141 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:18:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id OAA17993; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:18:56 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507210818.OAA17993@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Why we don't have a 2-floppy boot set ? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:18:55 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507200522.WAA16192@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 19, 95 10:22:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 796 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Why we have no bootable 2-floppy set ? I think it's enough easy to solve the problem with lack of spce on the boot floppy. The only thing we need is to add a driver that will be attached the first (or after sc0) and the only thing it will do is to write: Insert the 2nd (root) floppy in the drive and press and then waits for . It will work before mounting of root and even before the fd0 probing so there should be no problem with all other code. In result of this we will have 1 floppy with the kernel (upto 1.4M) and 1 floppy with the root file system (upto 1.4M). P.S. I think I can write such pseudodriver if there is no reasons to not do it. Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 01:21:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA15406 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:21:47 -0700 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA15399 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:21:44 -0700 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.51) with smtp id ; Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:21 MEST Received: by omega.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA29784; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:21:41 +0200 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9507210821.AA29784@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: someone to commit needed for new f2c ! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:21:41 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 865 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hello i'll today grab an actual version of f2c from ftp.netlib.org and adapt it to FreeBSB because the momentary version in FreeBSD is very old (i think 1993) - can anybody with commit priviledges please send me a mail that he will commit this new version to the -current and 2.1 tree's - i think it'll be ready this weekend - thanks in advance - t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 01:59:30 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA16976 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:59:30 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA16970 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:59:27 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT4OCSG2GG004HGL@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:58:57 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id LAA26627; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:11:15 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:11:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christoph Kukulies Subject: Re: someone to commit needed for new f2c ! In-reply-to: <9507210821.AA29784@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de> from "Thomas Graichen" at Jul 21, 95 10:21:41 am To: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Graichen) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199507210911.LAA26627@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-length: 1367 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > hello > > i'll today grab an actual version of f2c from ftp.netlib.org and adapt it to > FreeBSB because the momentary version in FreeBSD is very old (i think 1993) - > can anybody with commit priviledges please send me a mail that he will commit > this new version to the -current and 2.1 tree's - i think it'll be ready this > weekend - thanks in advance - t Remember that f2c needs some special massaging for FreeBSD. I recommend to check with Jonas Olson (ljo@freebsd.org) first. A switch (-o afaik) has been added to f2c and the f77 script is also special. f2c did not recieve any dramatic amendments during the past two years so I see no real necessity to update now (unless Linux has a newer version though :-) > Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen > longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin > is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik > __|| > - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| > ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 02:11:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA17709 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:11:58 -0700 Received: from hq.icb.chel.su (icb-rich-gw.icb.chel.su [193.125.10.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA17651 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:09:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (babkin@localhost) by hq.icb.chel.su (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA18260; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:03:25 +0600 From: "Serge A. Babkin" Message-Id: <199507210903.PAA18260@hq.icb.chel.su> Subject: Re: FreeBSD Digiboard driver To: pasha@relcom.kz (Pavel M. Gusev) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:03:25 +0600 (GMT+0600) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Pavel M. Gusev" at Jul 21, 95 12:40:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 414 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I am looking digiboard PC Xe/64(8k) driver for FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP box. > Jordan Hubbard says in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc there is some > alpha support for this card. Can I be a beta tester for this driver too? I think he had in mind my driver (which you seem to have already). Serge Babkin ! (babkin@hq.icb.chel.su) ! Headquarter of Joint Stock Commercial Bank "Chelindbank" ! Chelyabinsk, Russia From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 02:44:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA18718 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:44:57 -0700 Received: from scylla.sovam.com (scylla.sovam.com [192.216.212.97]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id CAA18709 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:44:47 -0700 Received: from arminco.aic.net by scylla.sovam.com with SMTP id AA22686 (5.67b8s3p1/IDA-1.5); Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:01:08 +0400 Subject: Re: your mail To: jhs@freebsd.org (Julian Stacey) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:58:23 +0400 (MMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507192333.BAA06113@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Stacey" at Jul 20, 95 01:33:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 8916 From: edd@arminco.com Message-Id: <9507211158.aa03946@arminco.arminco.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > This Junk is Not FreeeBSD, keep it off our lists ! Dear Julian, the following is the information requested by someone at the FreeBSD porters group for FreeBSD port to PowerPC. Sincerely yours, Edgar Der-Danieliantz AIC Research Laboratories/Open Systems Division AIC P.S. Please be careful in your statements - this is not a Junk :-). Definitely. Thank you. > > ============================<<>>========================== > > The Electronic News Magazine for the Internet > > World Wide Web server at http://power.globalnews.com/ > > *** July 17th, 1995: Vol. 2, No.34*** > > circulation: 50,000 > > > > > > _____________________ COMMERCIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS _____________________ > > | (**=new or updated copy) | > > | | > > | 6000) SevOne Announces Powerful $199 AIX SysAdmin Tool ** | > > | 4991) JAM6 from JYACC - a graphical Client/Server tool | > > | 4992) New Release: Metrowerks CodeWarrior 6 ** | > > | 4993) PowerPC Open Firmware evaluation software from Firmworks | > > | 4997) Motorola PowerPC Microprocessors | > > |____________________________________________________________________| > > > > ===================================================================== > > For full text of stories mail:news@power.globalnews.com > > COMPLETE DETAILS ON RETRIEVING FULL TEXT OF ITEMS IN POWERPC NEWS > > ARE AT THE END OF THIS ISSUE > > ======================================================================= > > > > ==== POWERPC NEWS: (use story no. 1999 to retrieve whole section) ===== > > > > 1380) LINUX DEBUTS ON POWERPC - BUT POWER MAC PORT IS STILL THWARTED > > The first working Linux kernel for PowerPC has been made available. > > The first cut of the freeware Unix runs on Motorola's 603-based VME > > machine. 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Free demo kit for Mac or Windows. > > 4992) New Release: Metrowerks CodeWarrior 6 - the only pure native > > PowerMac development environment ** > > 4993) PowerPC Open Firmware evaluation software available from > > Firmworks > > 4994) FREE IBM Direct product catalogues > > 4999) Power Micro Research - PowerPC hardware & software engineering > > services > > 6000) SevOne Announces Powerful $199 AIX SysAdmin Tool * > > > > INFORMATION ABOUT FREE TRIALS TO LEADING PUBLICATIONS > > 5000) Computergram international - the world's leading computer daily > > 5001) Unigram/X - the weekly newsletter for the Unix community > > 5002) Network Week - the weekly datacoms and telecoms bulletin > > 5003) Computer Finance - analysing the real cost of computing > > 5004) Software Futures - exploring software development > > 5005) Computer Business Review - the global business analysis title > > 5006) ClieNT Server News - the newspaper for Windows NT watchers > > 5020) IBM System User - the UK'S leading IBM magazine > > 5030) Unix News - the UK'S leading Unix magazine > > 5032) Webster - a twice monthly e-zine covering the World Wide Web > > -o- > > > > SPECIAL REPORTS/PUBLICATIONS/SEMINARS AVAILABLE > > FROM APT DATA Services Plc > > 5099) The Internet Business Briefings, London, April 28th, May 31st and > > June 28th, Manchester, May 10th, 1995. > > 5100) Individual reports on the Economics of: Software Projects, > > Client Server Computing, PC Networking, and Outsourcing. > > 5150) The Computer Industry Guide - guide to leading computer companies > > 5151) Computer Industry lists - UK AS400, RS6000, Mainframe and Unix > > > > FROM MALOFF & ASSOCIATES > > 5120) 1993-'94 Internet Service Provider Marketplace Report > > > > FROM INPUT, INC. > > 5130) Object-oriented platforms for client/server computing > > -o- > > POWERPC NEWS > > 7000) How to publish your information in this section of PowerPC News > > 7001) PowerPC News who are we? How are we funded? > > 7002) PowerPC News now available on world wide web > > 7003) FREE listings in on-line PowerPC Resource Guide > > > > COMPUTER BOOKSTORE > > 8500) Introduction > > 8501) Extract from 'THE WHOLE INTERNET USERS GUIDE & CATALOG' > > 8502) Information on selected additional computer titles > > 8504) Extract from 'INSIDE THE POWERPC REVOLUTION' > > 8505) Extract from 'ZEN OF CODE OPTIMIZATION' > > 8506) Extract from 'WRITING FCODE PROGRAMS FOR PCI' > > > > * COMPUTER JOBS * COMPUTER JOBS * COMPUTER JOBS * COMPUTER JOBS * > > 9000) Publishing job announcements in PowerPC News > > 9001) Positions available - new vacancies in this issue > > > > ======================================================================= > > Internet access is provided for PowerPC News > > by BT, a leader in world-wide communications > > ======================================================================= > > > > TO RETRIEVE FULL TEXT OF ITEMS IN POWERPC NEWS > > Send an e-mail message to news@power.globalnews.com > > Place in the SUBJECT of your message the item numbers of the items > > you wish to receive. 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This publication is free for the Internet > > community and may be reposted without restriction. > > - -- > Edgar Der-Danieliantz > "All that we are is the result of what we have thought."-Buddha. > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > -- Edgar Der-Danieliantz "All that we are is the result of what we have thought."-Buddha. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 03:41:22 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id DAA21002 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 03:41:22 -0700 Received: from lri.lri.fr (lri.lri.fr [129.175.15.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA20993 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 03:41:19 -0700 Received: from sun3.lri.fr by lri.lri.fr (8.6.10/general) with ESMTP id MAA04934 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:39:25 +0200 Received: by sun3.lri.fr (8.6.10/local) id MAA05875 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:39:20 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:39:20 +0200 From: Christophe.Durr@lri.fr (Christophe Durr) Message-Id: <199507211039.MAA05875@sun3.lri.fr> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD in MCA Cc: durr@lri.fr Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello Hackers, Is FreeBSD running on a Micro Channel Architecture with a NCR 53C90 SCSI controler? I tried but the boot hang. Thanks, Xtof ________________________________________________________________________ Christoph D\"urr durr@lri.fr LRI bat 490, 91405 Orsay Cedex, France http://www.lri.fr/~durr From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 04:08:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id EAA22432 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 04:08:51 -0700 Received: from server.netcraft.co.uk (server.netcraft.co.uk [194.72.238.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA22425 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 04:08:48 -0700 Received: (from paul@localhost) by server.netcraft.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA02126; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:06:54 +0100 From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199507211106.MAA02126@server.netcraft.co.uk> Subject: Re: [patch] if_lnc.c: support for PCI Lance Ethernet adapters added To: vak@cronyx.ru (Serge V.Vakulenko) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:06:54 +0100 (BST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, paul@isl.cf.ac.uk In-Reply-To: from "Serge V.Vakulenko" at Jul 20, 95 07:47:30 pm Reply-to: paul@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 3454 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Serge V.Vakulenko who said > > This patch adds the support for PCI Ethernet cards, > based on AMD 79C970 chip. > > Apply this patch, and add the following lines to the kernel config file: > > controller pci0 > device lnc0 > > Enjoy! > > Some notes: > 1. The Am79C970 chip has the same manufacturer id as the Am79C965 one. > Probing for it was wrong in the original driver. Yeah, the AMD docs are wrong and if you contact AMD they'll even tell what the id should be and it's still wrong :-) Every PCI chip I've seen uses the PCnet-32 ID as you've fuond out. > 2. Loss of carrier message could happen too often on overloaded networks, > it surely does not worth printing. If you're getting these errors then something is wrong. I'm not planning on removing that error message. The only error on lnc that possibly needs thinking about is the heartbeat error since some cards don't do the heartbeat test and you end up with a stream of such errors. > 3. There was a question of unit number conflict with configured ISA/EISA/VLB > cards, the PCI probe routine now skips all busy unit numbers. > > + switch (sc->nic.mem_mode) { > + case DMA_FIXED: printf (", static DMA buffer mode"); break; > + case DMA_MBUF: printf (", chained DMA buffers mode"); break; > + case SHMEM: printf (", shared memory mode"); break; > + } You've misunderstood this slightly, the DMA_FIXED version uses pre-allocated data buffers and copies the packets to/from the mbuf chains into these buffers. The lance's ring descriptors then point to these data buffers. The DMA_MBUF doesn't, it places a pointer to each individual mbuf of a chain into a single ring descriptors, thus saving the copy operation since the lance DMA's the packet straight into the mbuf. Since a single packet can be stored in more than 1 mbuf, more than one ring descriptor is used per packet and so chaining has to be supported by the driver. This is all experimental since I haven't seen a noticeable performance improvement from using the DMA_MBUF option and in fact that thread of the driver is pretty buggy and will cause you lots of problems. I need to play around with it a lot more to see if saving the copy is a bigger gain than is lost by using chaining. There's lots of tradeofs to consider, chaning uses more bus/ethernet bandwidth. On large packets, not copying saves cpu usage but on very small packets, the code for handling chaining is probably more than that of a copy. I'd guess that for large packets, throughput would likely be better when using mbufs but if you get lots of small packets then it could be worse. It may depend on your particular usage. In any case, this is all fun stuff to look into sometime in the future when I get time to really work on it properly. For now the DMA_FIXED code works well and is what the driver is set up by default to do. > > + > +/* > + * PCI bus probe and attach routines for LANCE Ethernet controllers, > + * by Serge V.Vakulenko, vak@cronyx.ru > + */ I'll file this away and look at it all for 2.2. The pci code shouldn't really go into the isa file. The bus specific probe code needs to be split out and put in the proper place but this wouldn't be the only driver to break the rules so.... -- Paul Richards, Bluebird Computer Systems. FreeBSD core team member. Internet: paul@FreeBSD.org, http://www.freebsd.org/~paul Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1222 457651 (home) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 05:47:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA26977 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 05:47:21 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA26971 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 05:47:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA27081; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 05:46:39 -0700 To: Karl Denninger cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jul 1995 22:48:26 CDT." <199507210348.WAA00203@Jupiter.mcs.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 05:46:39 -0700 Message-ID: <27079.806330799@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I guess that -STABLE isn't. Well, perhaps we were overly optimistic with the naming; I think "stabilizing" is a better description since we're obviously not really going to be happy with its stability until we've reached the point where 2.1 can be released, and that's still a month or two away. A lot can happen in that time. > I get the same silent hang on the 1742 machine that I get on the other > releases, and we've added a panic in biodone to the mix. The 2742 driver > problems are not addressed in -STABLE either. We needed to shake this out in -current a little longer before bringing it across. I'll ask Justin what his plans for this code are. > This is getting frustrating, and I'm running out of time and patience. > Perhaps this isn't the path we want to go down with our operating system > choice. > > I'm going to give this another week of effort, and if we don't have it > stable by then I'm tossing in the towel and going to start on the evaluation > process again from scratch. This is costing me far too much sleep. I understand. Please do also understand that we are doing everything we can to work with you on this and don't have many people who are actually paid to do this kind of work. Progress is therefore constrained by whatever free time the members have to devote to it. If do we manage to get these problems worked out for you before you pull the ejection handle, perhaps it's time to think about moving FreeBSD Inc's support-for-money plans forward. If I could afford to hire just ONE serious systems hacker to look into problems like this full-time, it would be a significant help. We just need to figure out how willing the various commercial users like yourself are to to underwrite such an effort. This also isn't an attempt on my part to put the screws to anyone, this is simply an honest assessment of our current state affairs. I would love to be able to throw someone at your problem full-time, but that's a luxury I don't really have with a volunteer crew, nor can I expect people to jump at the crack of a whip. This is problem that isn't going to go away and will, in fact, only get worse as more commercial interests move to FreeBSD. I would welcome your (or anyone else's) suggestions. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 06:19:29 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA28692 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:19:29 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA28684 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:19:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA27202; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:18:48 -0700 To: Christophe.Durr@lri.fr (Christophe Durr) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, durr@lri.fr Subject: Re: FreeBSD in MCA In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:39:20 +0200." <199507211039.MAA05875@sun3.lri.fr> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:18:48 -0700 Message-ID: <27200.806332728@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk No, we currently do not support MCA. Sorry! Jordan > Hello Hackers, > > Is FreeBSD running on a Micro Channel Architecture with a NCR 53C90 > SCSI controler? I tried but the boot hang. > > Thanks, > Xtof > ________________________________________________________________________ > Christoph D\"urr durr@lri.fr > LRI bat 490, 91405 Orsay Cedex, France http://www.lri.fr/~durr > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 06:24:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA29152 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:24:47 -0700 Received: from haven.ios.com (haven.ios.com [198.4.75.45]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA29136 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:24:43 -0700 Received: (from rashid@localhost) by haven.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA01173 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:28:20 -0400 From: "Rashid Karimov." Message-Id: <199507211328.JAA01173@haven.ios.com> Subject: Interesting ( and fatal) system locking in 205R To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1285 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there ppl, here I am again with the old problem - random system locks ( approx. once in a day or two) on loaded system. The good news is: The QUOTAs code doesn't lead to kernel locking ! - albeit the premonition a few ppl here had ( me incl. :). Something else causes the locking . Very interesting one IMHO - the console driver is alive ( you can switch the virtual screens from the console) , the ping from remote sites works too , when one tries telnet or ftp tp the hung host - it does say "connected" , but that's about it. You can't get anything else ! I don't know if this description in enough for some1 here the reason/cure , but hey , you never know ! :) The system is : P90 , 128Mb RAM, Bustec 946C PCI-SCSI , 2 HDDs Seagate Barracudas. The locking happens on different systems ( 4 of them) _regularly. The motherboards are different , on some systems there is Adaptec 2940 instead of Bustec. I'll try to compile DDB support into the kernel and produce more detailed description of the problem later .. Rashid PPS Assuming this problem will be fixed I think that the 205R could be used in server config as fast and reliable alternative to SSs :)) Any cure? Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 06:27:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA29434 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:27:48 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA29425 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:27:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA27268; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:27:05 -0700 cc: Karl Denninger , rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 05:46:39 PDT." <27079.806330799@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:27:05 -0700 Message-ID: <27266.806333225@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Please forgive all the typos (I counted 4 in the last two paragraphs alone!) in that last message.. I shouldn't try to address serious issues at 5:46AM, just minutes after waking up.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 06:27:52 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA29468 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:27:52 -0700 Received: from skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (skynet.ctr.columbia.edu [128.59.64.70]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA29429 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:27:47 -0700 Received: (from wpaul@localhost) by skynet.ctr.columbia.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA04954; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:17:30 -0400 From: A boy and his worm gear Message-Id: <199507211317.JAA04954@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Why we don't have a 2-floppy boot set ? To: babkin@hq.icb.chel.su (Serge A. Babkin) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507210818.OAA17993@hq.icb.chel.su> from "Serge A. Babkin" at Jul 21, 95 02:18:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3769 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Of all the gin joints in all the world, Serge A. Babkin had to walk into mine and say: > Why we have no bootable 2-floppy set ? I think it's enough easy to > solve the problem with lack of spce on the boot floppy. The only > thing we need is to add a driver that will be attached the first > (or after sc0) and the only thing it will do is to write: > Insert the 2nd (root) floppy in the drive and press > and then waits for . It will work before mounting of root > and even before the fd0 probing so there should be no problem > with all other code. > In result of this we will have 1 floppy with the kernel (upto 1.4M) > and 1 floppy with the root file system (upto 1.4M). > P.S. I think I can write such pseudodriver if there is no reasons to > not do it. > Serge Babkin There already is (or rather was, because it's currently broken) a way do do exactly what you're describing without having to write any new code. All you have to do is configure a kernel with: config vmunix swap generic And then boot with the -a flag. What will happen is that the kernel will get all the way through the device probes and then stop right before it mounts the root filesystem and print a prompt that says: root device: You can then take out the first floppy while it's waiting, insert a second floppy, and type 'fd0' (or even fd1, or wd0, sd0). The kernel will then mount the device you specify as the rootdev and continue on its way. The one problem with this right now is that it only works for ufs filesystems; it would take a little bit of tweaking to get it to handle booting from CD-ROMS or other fs types. Unfortunately, /sys/i386/i386/swapgeneric.c doesn't work anymore because of come changes that were made right before 2.0.5 was frozen that broke it (swapon() was changed to allow the user to specify any awap device he wanted, even those that didn't exist when the system was first booted, in order to allow sysinstall to enable swapping the moment it got your hard disk partitoned and labeled). If you configure a generic kernel now, you'll get symbol conflicts at link time because swapgeneric.c still has a local copy of swdevt that conflicts with the one in vm_swap.c. It wouldn't be hard to make it work again (I know 'cause I did it on my own system recently just for kicks) but if I went near it I'm sure I'd get my head bitten off since there seems to be a push on to nuke swapgeneric.c and merge it into userconfig (the idea being that you can boot with the -c flag, specify yout root device & such and then have that information saved with dset). This would save you the trouble of having to make a new kernel just to change the default rootdev, plus it would also let you construct a 2-floppy boot/root install. (Personally, I would rather see both a hacked userconfig _and_ swapgeneric (they're not entirely the same thing) but the decision isn't up to me. Fortunately, I have the sources so if I don't like it, I can always change it. :) Anyway, my point is that there's already a couple of ways to do what you want (and what I want too, actually) in a fairly general fashion using existing facilities, so writing a third special-purpose facility probably isn't such a great idea. -Bill -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~T~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Bill Paul (212) 854-6020 | System Manager Work: wpaul@ctr.columbia.edu | Center for Telecommunications Research Home: wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu | Columbia University, New York City ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Møøse Illuminati: ignore it and be confused, or join it and be confusing! ~~~~~~ "Welcome to All Things BSDish! If it's not BSDish, it's crap!" ~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 06:43:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA00234 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:43:04 -0700 Received: from ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (ki1.Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE [160.45.24.21]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA00228 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:42:58 -0700 Received: by ki1.chemie.fu-berlin.de (Smail3.1.28.1) from omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (130.133.3.51) with smtp id ; Fri, 21 Jul 95 15:42 MEST Received: by omega.physik.fu-berlin.de; id AA06068; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:42:01 +0200 From: Thomas Graichen Message-Id: <9507211342.AA06068@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de> Subject: lint To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:42:01 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 649 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hello how about including the lint(1) from NetBSD into FreeBSD too (... would avoid the "is there a lint for FreeBSD" questions) - t _______________________________________________________||_____________________ __|| Perfection is reached, not when there is no __|| thomas graichen longer anything to add, but when there __|| freie universitaet berlin is no longer anything to take away __|| fachbereich physik __|| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery - __|| ___________________________||____email: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de____ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 06:49:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id GAA00627 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:49:18 -0700 Received: from grendel.csc.smith.edu (grendel.csc.smith.edu [131.229.222.23]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA00621 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 06:49:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by grendel.csc.smith.edu (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA24757; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:51:05 -0400 From: jfieber@grendel.csc.smith.edu (John Fieber) Message-Id: <199507211351.JAA24757@grendel.csc.smith.edu> Subject: Re: uptimes (was Re: What people are doing with FBSD) To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507210503.WAA01787@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jul 20, 95 10:03:37 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 526 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. writes: > With FreeBSD 1.1.5 , on one of my contracts my system at work stayed up > for three months till it was time to rebuild the kernel for ip > multicasting stuff and audio stuff... I ran my 2.0R system about a month. Near the end I downloaded -current, and the last task in that month of uptime was a make world which went all the way through without a hitch. And I thought 2.0R was supposed to be unstable... :) -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ========== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush === From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 07:28:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id HAA02812 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 07:28:04 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA02804 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 07:27:48 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA03980; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:11:49 +1000 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:11:49 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507211411.AAA03980@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: lint Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >how about including the lint(1) from NetBSD into FreeBSD too (... would avoid >the "is there a lint for FreeBSD" questions) - t Has anyone tried it? How does it handle gcc features? We depend on __inline, __asm, __attribute, ... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 08:16:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA05253 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:16:47 -0700 Received: from kksys.skypoint.net (kksys.skypoint.net [199.86.32.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA05247 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:16:46 -0700 Received: from starfire.mn.org by kksys.skypoint.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0sZJa5-0001WGC; Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:01 CDT Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.8/1.2.1) id KAA02370 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:15:56 -0500 From: John Lind Message-Id: <199507211515.KAA02370@starfire.mn.org> Subject: FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:15:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 313 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Do I remember reading an announcement that this SNAP will not run on a 4Mb machine? I just tried it on my test-bench 386 w/4Mb, and it croaked right after loading the kernel, before uncompressing... John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 08:22:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA05442 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:22:10 -0700 Received: from ansley.com (ansley.atlanta.com [155.229.16.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA05422 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:21:39 -0700 Received: (from gja@localhost) by ansley.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id LAA00659 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:21:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:21:16 -0400 From: Greg Ansley Message-Id: <199507211521.LAA00659@ansley.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Intel motherboards OK??? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I seem to recall reports of problems with Intel Premier Series motherboards. Are these boards usable with FreeBSD or was their some fatal flaw that caused them not to work. (These motherboard are one possible choice for a project I'm working on). Greg Ansley gja@ansley.com Ansley & Associates, Inc. (404) 248-0827 Atlanta, GA From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 08:30:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA06158 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:30:55 -0700 Received: from kksys.skypoint.net (kksys.skypoint.net [199.86.32.5]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA06146 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:30:52 -0700 Received: from starfire.mn.org by kksys.skypoint.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0sZJOg-0002KAC; Fri, 21 Jul 95 09:49 CDT Received: (from john@localhost) by starfire.mn.org (8.6.8/1.2.1) id KAA02338 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:04:08 -0500 From: John Lind Message-Id: <199507211504.KAA02338@starfire.mn.org> Subject: comparative CPU power To: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:04:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 604 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can anyone tell me what the perceived performance while running FreeBSD might be between these two systems? 33Mhz Cyrix 486DLC w/64Mb external cache 33Mhz Intel 486DX w/no external cache I am willing to make a lateral move to be able to do the install, but I'd really hate to have to take a step backwards, even a small one. (Yes, for some reason, even though other people are reporting success, my 486DLC won't run FreeBSD 2.X). I am trying to do this without spending any money.... :-} John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 09:19:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA08751 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:19:57 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08703 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:19:50 -0700 Received: from mailbox.mcs.com (Mailbox.mcs.com [192.160.127.87]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA06031; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:19:48 -0500 Received: by mailbox.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:19 CDT Received: by mars.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:19 CDT Message-Id: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:19 CDT From: jonas@mcs.com (Lars Jonas Olsson) To: graichen@omega.physic.fu-berlin.de CC: hackers@freebsd.org, ljo@po.cwru.edu Subject: new f2c Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I would be happy to have the latest f2c integrated. I did the changes so that f2c would be happy to be used from gcc (The compiler driver for the compiler). You might also update the libF77/libI77 parts, but the ones we have are pretty new (newer than f2c). You need to check that your version works with gcc -c -v file.f and also gcc -c -pipe -v file.f (f2c needs to send output to stdout in this case). I can not test it at the moment and we don't want to break it for the next release so please test carefully! It would also be great to have a man page for f77. The most frequently used FORTRAN compiler options should also be tested, some FORTRAN compiler options conflict with gcc options. I have tried tp avoid some of this in gcc.c. At some time we might eliminate f2c and use g77, but I doubt that it will be for next release. Jonas (ljo@po.cwru.edu) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 09:20:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA08894 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:20:59 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA08884 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:20:56 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA12891; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:20:56 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507211620.JAA12891@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Intel motherboards OK??? To: gja@ansley.com (Greg Ansley) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507211521.LAA00659@ansley.com> from "Greg Ansley" at Jul 21, 95 11:21:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1327 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I seem to recall reports of problems with Intel Premier Series motherboards. > Are these boards usable with FreeBSD or was their some fatal flaw that > caused them not to work. (These motherboard are one possible choice for > a project I'm working on). Just noted you said ``Intel Premier Series'', now do you mean the Premier I (aka Batman), Premier II (aka Plato), or Premier III (aka Zappa, Morison, Alladin, or Endavor). Below I am addressing the Premier II/Plato card issues. They well work to run FreeBSD on, you just have to be very carefull about configurations. I can easily build single user machines with them with 1 scsi controller on PCI (aha2940 would be your best bet here, do not attempt to get a bt946 to work in these MB, it is painful). Make sure you get the specified tin simms. And don't try to run a 100Mhz CPU in them, that does cause cache failures in many cases. Watch out trying to run large amounts of memory and use only single density simms with 24 or less chips on them (infact as bad as this board seems stay with 9 chip simms if at all possible.) If you can simply avoid this board, it is a painful one to get to run reliably. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 09:49:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA10295 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:49:10 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA10287 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 09:49:07 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06025; Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:41:37 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507211641.AA06025@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net (Imperial Irrigation District) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:41:37 MDT Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507210057.RAA03950@lightlink.satcom.net> from "Imperial Irrigation District" at Jul 20, 95 05:57:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes. I am interested. I would like to see sysinstall can fdisk and disklabel > the second hard disk. Or to upgrade the old version to a newer version w/o > reinstalling the whole new system. It is a big problem with me to upgrade > since I have to resinstalling the whole new system. The "upgrade problem" can't go away until the system configuration data has been divorced for the configuration implementation. As long as there is one shell script that must be modified to reflect configuration information, upgrading will be a bitch. It's only when new developement doesn't affect the files containing configuration data that upgrades will become easy. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 10:33:58 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA13273 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:33:58 -0700 Received: from relay.ioffe.rssi.ru (relay.ioffe.rssi.ru [193.232.201.33]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA13157 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:31:46 -0700 Received: from ccioffe by relay.ioffe.rssi.ru with SMTP (8.7.Beta.9/Serv-2.12-AS-eef) id VAA14538; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:29:48 +0400 (MSD) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:29:45 +0400 (MSD) From: "Andrew V. Vylegjanin" X-Sender: andrew@ccioffe To: hackers@freebsd.org, "Rashid Karimov." Subject: Re: Interesting ( and fatal) system locking in 205R In-Reply-To: <199507211328.JAA01173@haven.ios.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Rashid Karimov. wrote: > Hi there ppl, > > here I am again with the old problem - random > system locks ( approx. once in a day or two) on > loaded system. > [deleted] > Something else causes the locking . Very interesting one IMHO - > the console driver is alive ( you can switch the virtual screens > from the > console) , the ping from remote sites works too , when one tries > telnet or ftp tp the hung host - it does say "connected" , > but that's about it. You can't get anything else ! > > Rashid > > I saw the same situation _without_ QUOATS kernel option, but with similar hardware config : Neptun base motherboard with P90 and Adaptec 2940 under 205R. There is no such problems encountered with NCR and Neptun pair. Andrew. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 10:51:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id KAA14345 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:51:28 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA14338 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:51:27 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06230; Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:43:56 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507211743.AA06230@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: your mail To: edd@arminco.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 11:43:55 MDT Cc: jhs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9507211158.aa03946@arminco.arminco.com> from "edd@arminco.com" at Jul 21, 95 11:58:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This Junk is Not FreeeBSD, keep it off our lists ! > > > Dear Julian, > > > the following is the information requested by someone at > the FreeBSD porters group for FreeBSD port to PowerPC. > > > Sincerely yours, > > Edgar Der-Danieliantz > AIC Research Laboratories/Open Systems Division > AIC > > > P.S. Please be careful in your statements - this is not a Junk :-). > Definitely. Thank you. I think offense was taken at the implication that FreeBSD should be "keeping up with Linux", since the Linux status was the only apparently relevant data to FreeBSD that the posting contained. Actually, I read the thing from a web site, not on a mailing list. Which brings up the question of "who" and "why hackers@freebsd.org and not platforms@freebsd.org"? As far as I know, I'm the only FreeBSD person with a PowerPC box that intends to run FreeBSD on it eventually, and I didn't make the request. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 12:09:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA18529 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:09:16 -0700 Received: from risc6.unisa.ac.za (risc6.unisa.ac.za [163.200.97.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA18520 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:09:12 -0700 Received: by risc6.unisa.ac.za (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA23453; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:08:04 +0200 From: radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Message-Id: <9507211908.AA23453@risc6.unisa.ac.za> Subject: www cgi sripts problem To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:08:04 +0200 (USAST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 809 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am having a problem running the WWW cgi scripts writen in perl. My scripts are owned by nobody and when started by www client she/he gets response: whatever.cgi: permission denied Everything works fine when root executes them locally. I didn't change BSD default definition of nobody. Is it a problem, or something else? Please help! Regards, Alex radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za http://www.terranet.co.za I am having a problem running the WWW cgi scripts writen in perl. My scripts are owned by nobody and when started by www client she/he gets response: whatever.cgi: permission denied Everything works fine when root executes them locally. I didn't change BSD default definition of nobody. Is it a problem, or something else? Please help! Regards, Alex radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za http://www.terranet.co.za From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 12:11:48 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA18695 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:11:48 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18689 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:11:46 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA07497 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:11:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199507211911.MAA07497@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: patches for ddd's configure? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 12:11:43 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just trying to build ddd over here and I was wondering if anyone has patches for it? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 13:06:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA22018 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 13:06:34 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA21998 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 13:06:28 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA11892; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:06:24 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA02125; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:06:23 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507212006.PAA02125@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:06:23 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@Mcs.Net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <27079.806330799@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 21, 95 05:46:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2778 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > This is getting frustrating, and I'm running out of time and patience. > > Perhaps this isn't the path we want to go down with our operating system > > choice. > > > > I'm going to give this another week of effort, and if we don't have it > > stable by then I'm tossing in the towel and going to start on the evaluation > > process again from scratch. This is costing me far too much sleep. > > I understand. Please do also understand that we are doing everything > we can to work with you on this and don't have many people who are > actually paid to do this kind of work. Progress is therefore > constrained by whatever free time the members have to devote to it. > > If do we manage to get these problems worked out for you before you > pull the ejection handle, perhaps it's time to think about moving > FreeBSD Inc's support-for-money plans forward. If I could afford to > hire just ONE serious systems hacker to look into problems like this > full-time, it would be a significant help. We just need to figure out > how willing the various commercial users like yourself are to to > underwrite such an effort. > > This also isn't an attempt on my part to put the screws to anyone, > this is simply an honest assessment of our current state affairs. I > would love to be able to throw someone at your problem full-time, but > that's a luxury I don't really have with a volunteer crew, nor can I > expect people to jump at the crack of a whip. This is problem that > isn't going to go away and will, in fact, only get worse as more > commercial interests move to FreeBSD. I would welcome your (or anyone > else's) suggestions. > > Jordan I'm happy to pay for *actual* support which I receive, but my feel on this is that I am not going to pay for a staffer full-time if the work that he or she produces goes back to *everyone*. That is, I won't pay for everyone *else*'s fix. But I will pay a reasonable support charge *if and only if* I get actual fixes to problems like this in a contemporary fashion. If someone wants to start up a firm that does this kind of thing, I say more power to them. However, my willingness to pay is directly correlated to the quality of the fixes and the timeliness of what we receive. If I'm going to pay big bucks, then I want the fixes (and the rest of that person's time) to myself. If its much more reasonable, then so am I. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 13:47:17 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA23342 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 13:47:17 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA23334 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 13:47:10 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA06830; Fri, 21 Jul 95 14:39:57 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507212039.AA06830@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: www cgi sripts problem To: radova@risc6.unisa.ac.za (A. Radovanovic) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 14:39:56 MDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9507211908.AA23453@risc6.unisa.ac.za> from "A. Radovanovic" at Jul 21, 95 09:08:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I am having a problem running the WWW cgi scripts writen in perl. > My scripts are owned by nobody and when started by www client > she/he gets response: whatever.cgi: permission denied > > Everything works fine when root executes them locally. Probably the permissions on the files themselves or the permissions on one of the path components used to get to the files is wrong. You can be root and "su nobody" and test the path, or just visually inspect it, if you know how directory permissions and exclusion groups operate. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 14:31:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA25387 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:31:56 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA25363 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 14:31:42 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA21818; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:33:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:33:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199507212133.PAA21818@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ Karl Denninger writes about his instability problems ] [ Jordan's discussion about "support for money" plans ] > I'm happy to pay for *actual* support which I receive, but my feel on this > is that I am not going to pay for a staffer full-time if the work that he or > she produces goes back to *everyone*. Wow, I hope I'm parsing this in-correctly, but my impression is that *if* you pay for support, you don't want the fixes to go to anyone else. So, if there is a bug in some part of the kernel that is triggered by your hardware (and other's possibly), you don't want the fix generated to go back into the general source tree? If not, then can you re-phrase for dense folks like me to understand. If it is the case, *WHY*? What is the difference to you if only you get the fix or everyone get's the fix? Support means that you will get fixes in a timely manner, while non-support means fixes will get done whenever a developer feels like doing them. In either case, the end result is the same *except* you get them in a time-critical manner. Even BSDI's support policy isn't this way AFAIK. If there are bugs in the system which get fixed by the support staff, *everyone* shares in those fixes. > If someone wants to start up a firm that does this kind of thing, I say more > power to them. However, my willingness to pay is directly correlated to the > quality of the fixes and the timeliness of what we receive. What you are paying for is the timeliness of the fix, and a guarantee that the fix itself will be done to the best of the person's ability. > If I'm going to pay big bucks, then I want the fixes (and the rest of that > person's time) to myself. What do you gain by keeping the fix all to yourself? I'm not trying to be a software socialist here, but I fail to understand the logic of hoarding fixes which everyone can share. FreeBSD was created by a large number of volunteers who have spent *thousands* of hours of their time w/out compensation to fix bugs. Isn't it only *fair* to give the fix you've received back in return? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 15:24:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA27696 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:24:06 -0700 Received: from cygnus.com (cygnus.com [140.174.1.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA27690 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:24:05 -0700 Received: from localhost.cygnus.com (rtl.cygnus.com [140.174.1.2]) by cygnus.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10353; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:23:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199507212223.PAA10353@cygnus.com> To: "Philippe Charnier" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, bug-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: libg++.2.6.1/FreeBSD-2.0.1-Devel. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Oct 1994 13:19:53 BST." <199410271221.NAA05878@lirmm.lirmm.fr> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:23:48 -0700 From: Mike Stump Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I believe that these problems have been fixed. Let us know if they are not. > Message-Id: <199410271221.NAA05878@lirmm.lirmm.fr> > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 13:19:53 +0100 > From: "Philippe Charnier" > > > while installing libg++-2.6.1 on FreeBSD-2.0.1-Development > (/usr/local/bin/gcc -> /usr/bin/cc, the FreeBSD port of gcc-2.6.0) > > > Remove 2 spaces characters > > --- ./libg++/etc/ADT-examples/Makefile.in.orig Wed Oct 26 23:38:25 1994 > +++ ./libg++/etc/ADT-examples/Makefile.in Wed Oct 26 23:38:59 1994 > @@ -36,7 +36,7 @@ > > genkey: genPatkey.o > $(CXX) genPatkey.o -o $@ $(LIBS) > - > + > Patricia.o: $(srcdir)/Patricia.h > Patmain.o: $(srcdir)/Patricia.h > > The output (_G_config.h) is: typedef quad_t fpos_t > breaks the compilation. `quad_t' is defined in sys/types.h. > > --- ./libio/gen-params.orig Wed Oct 26 23:52:16 1994 > +++ ./libio/gen-params Wed Oct 26 23:58:48 1994 > @@ -277,6 +277,9 @@ > cat < typedef ${clock_t-int /* default */} ${macro_prefix}clock_t; > typedef ${dev_t-int /* default */} ${macro_prefix}dev_t; > +#ifdef __FreeBSD__ > +#include > +#endif > typedef ${fpos_t-long /* default */} ${macro_prefix}fpos_t; > typedef ${gid_t-int /* default */} ${macro_prefix}gid_t; > typedef ${ino_t-int /* default */} ${macro_prefix}ino_t; > > > lena # ./configure i386-unknown-freebsd > lena # make > [...] > gcc -c -g -O2 -fno-implicit-templates -nostdinc++ -I. -I../../libio -I. -I./../../libio -I./../src Integer.cc > Integer.cc: In function `struct IntRep * div(const struct IntRep *, long int, struct IntRep *)': > Integer.cc:1185: Internal compiler error. > Integer.cc:1185: Please submit a full bug report to `bug-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu'. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > > No error when running make again. > > lena # make > cd tests; make all ... > cd dbz; make all ... > cd stdio; make all ... > `iostream.list' is up to date. > gcc -c -g -O2 -fno-implicit-templates -nostdinc++ -I. -I../../libio -I. -I./../../libio -I./../src Integer.cc > [...] > > > > > -------- -------- > Philippe Charnier charnier@lirmm.fr > > > LIRMM, 161 rue Ada, 34392 Montpellier cedex 5 -- France > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 15:53:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA29022 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:53:08 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA29009 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:53:02 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA21981; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:53:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:53:49 -0600 Message-Id: <199507212253.QAA21981@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Karl Denninger Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-Reply-To: <199507212143.QAA00359@Jupiter.mcs.net> References: <199507212130.PAA21799@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199507212143.QAA00359@Jupiter.mcs.net> Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) From: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ Paying for support ] > > If I'm going to pay for "support", defined as I report problems and some > organization works on fixing them, where the person(s) time that is used is > amortized over a lot of people, then that organization "owns" the fixes and > I get them under what is essentially a license. That depends on how the person who is working for you sets up the policy, but yes I agree to some extant. > If I am going to pay the person's salary substantially in total, then > they're mine as a work product. Herein lies the rub. First of all, I don't think Jordan was implying that you alone would bear the burden of a full-time support person. Secondly, You and I have a different opinion on what I believe Jordan is proposing (He may be proposing something different than what I believe, so if I'm incorrect I'll let him correct me). As I understand it, 'support' is responding in a timely manner to bugs and problems that exist in the system. In my former life as a system administrator, my salary was paid for me being there and doing my job. The code I developed on the job was mine to do with as I please, although most of it was written to make my job of 'supporting' the users better. In my current role as a 'Research Engineer', I'm no longer in a support position but instead my sole responsibility is developing new software and fixing bugs in already existing software. However, in a similar situation to that above, I don't hoard the fixes to software which I've freely obtained from other folks even though SRI is paying me to fix them (indirectly). But, I also don't give away software/fixes to customer's w/out a support contract of some kind either. > If you don't see the difference here, then you obviously have never employed > someone to program for you. I've been employed enough to know the difference. > > What you are paying for is the timeliness of the fix, and a guarantee > > that the fix itself will be done to the best of the person's ability. > > Right. You disagree by saying that not only do you pay for the timeliness of the fix, but for the fix itself. That is where we disagree. > > What do you gain by keeping the fix all to yourself? I'm not trying to > > be a software socialist here, but I fail to understand the logic of > > hoarding fixes which everyone can share. FreeBSD was created by a large > > number of volunteers who have spent *thousands* of hours of their time > > w/out compensation to fix bugs. Isn't it only *fair* to give the fix > > you've received back in return? > > If I am going to pay for a person's livelihood in total or substantially in > total (ie: thousands of dollars a month) then I own their output. > Period. Are you hiring them as a programmer, or as a support person. There is a subtle difference in my mind. When Cygnus was paid to develop gcc for Solaris, the members did *not* own the resulting software, but they did pay for the right of early access and *support* throughout the development process, along with easy access to the developers. I would venture to guess that each of the contributors contributed substantially to a single developer's total livlihood. > If I'm contributing to a pool, that's different. That's the traditional > support model, and it isn't nearly as expensive. We disagree on what Jordan is proposing, and I suspect part of my understanding comes from a post he made a couple weeks back regarding drivers for a communication cards. Jordan writes: > What this means, essentially, is that those who contact me should also > be willing to donate something reasonable in the way of time, money or > manpower to the project. They should also be willing to see the > results released for general consumption with an unrestrictive > (e.g. "BSD style") copyright. But please, read on. There's more in that article if you're interested. Anyway, to summarize I think it's only *fair* (right and wrong are not the issue here) to donate whatever you think is fair back into FreeBSD. If you think hiring a full-time staff person is asking a bit much, then don't. But, if you think it's justified to hire a full-time person to do FreeBSD support, would it be too much to ask that this person be able to donate at least a portion of the work back to the FreeBSD Project? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 16:19:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA29429 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:19:37 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA29421 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:19:33 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA19043; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:35:45 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26575 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:18:51 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA17117 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 21 Jul 1995 23:23:11 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA01694; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:15:57 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199507202115.XAA01694@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs To: hm@altona.hamburg.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 23:15:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Hellmuth Michaelis" at Jul 19, 95 10:44:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1281 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I experience 2 types of total system hangs under 2.0.5-Release, > > 1) in an xterm, while scrolling, the system sometimes and totally > unreproducable just hangs. This seems to occur more often the smaller > the used font and/or the larger the xterm is, or better the more > amount to scroll. > This also happened from time to time under 1.1.5.1 and was one of the > reasons i wanted to upgrade. > When this happens, the machine is totally frozen so there is not even > a chance to look from another side into the machine. Sounds identical to mine, using 115R. Also on an EISA machine (486/25, 32Mb). I can solve/avoid my problem using the non-turbo mode on the VGA card (a Orchid Prodesigner IIs). I never experienced it until I switched to a 17" monitor that could do 1024x768. On the ol' 640x480 monitor the turbo-mode worked fine. I have yet to try 205R on this machine. > Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 16:57:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA00708 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:57:18 -0700 Received: from thing.sunquest.com (thing.Sunquest.COM [149.138.1.11]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA00702 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:57:16 -0700 From: tony@thing.sunquest.com Received: by thing.sunquest.com; id AA20088; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:53:13 -0700 Message-Id: <9507212353.AA20088@thing.sunquest.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Rand MH v6.7 Transport-Options: /nodelivery/return Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 95 16:53:49 CST." <199507212253.QAA21981@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 16:53:13 -0700 X-Mts: smtp Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > subtle difference in my mind. When Cygnus was paid to develop gcc for > Solaris, the members did *not* own the resulting software, but they did > pay for the right of early access and *support* throughout the > development process, along with easy access to the developers. As far as I understand this (from having a friend who works at Cygnus) this is their normal method of operation. You are paying to get work done which would otherwise not normally get done (or not be done to your satisfaction {time/quality}). However, when that work is done, it gets folded back for everyone to use - the buyer does not get sole use of the new code (which would be the antithesis of free software) > > If I am going to pay for a person's livelihood in total or substantially in > > total (ie: thousands of dollars a month) then I own their output. > > Period. If the original poster feels they are paying 'for a person's livelihood in total or substantially' and they want ownership, why not go out and hire someone (even part time) to work on the code. tony From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 17:01:44 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA00916 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:01:44 -0700 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA00908 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:01:43 -0700 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id RAA00646; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:00:17 -0700 Received: from plokta.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-5.3) id AA23611; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:59:59 -0700 Received: by plokta.Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19248; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:00:03 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:00:03 -0700 Message-Id: <9507220000.AA19248@plokta.Eng.Sun.COM> From: "Bryan O'Sullivan" To: Ade Barkah Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Being curious with `cat * > file' In-Reply-To: <199507192022.OAA10037@hemi.com> References: <199507192022.OAA10037@hemi.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk a> What should `cat * > output` do ? Should it gracefully concatenate a> all the files together into a file called `output', or will it a> attempt to cat the output into itself so many times until the file a> system is filled ? Welcome to the happy world of Unix shell programming ("Semantics? Uh... what that big word mean?"). Whether the filename expansion is performed before or after the output-file-to-be is created depends on the shell you are using and, interestingly enough, not a one of the common shells whose manual pages I checked documented the order in which such things happen. The portable fix: don't try anything like "cat * > output". It's not a FreeBSD problem; it's universal. ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:25:17 -0700 Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [198.137.146.49]) by mail.barrnet.net (8.6.10/MAIL-RELAY-LEN) with ESMTP id RAA09851 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:25:06 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA24774; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:07:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199507220007.SAA24774@rover.village.org> To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) Cc: Karl Denninger , jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:53:49 MDT Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:07:02 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk For what it is worth, all the places that I've worked that have sold support retain ownership of the patches that they produced, even if the patch was a time and materials patch. It is my understanding that this is standard in the industry. Why would you want it otherwise? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 17:34:11 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA01767 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:34:11 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA01759 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:34:07 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA21240; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:33:27 -0700 To: Karl Denninger cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:06:23 CDT." <199507212006.PAA02125@Jupiter.mcs.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:33:27 -0700 Message-ID: <21238.806373207@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm happy to pay for *actual* support which I receive, but my feel on this > is that I am not going to pay for a staffer full-time if the work that he or > she produces goes back to *everyone*. Sorry if I suggested that you'd be expected to pay for a full-time staffer. Such a staffer would not only be too expensive for a single company to support ($40K/yr for a support contract would be a little excessive, to say the least :-) but it also wouldn't make much sense. You don't NEED somebody on the job for MCSNet full-time, you need someone available for bursts of activity when problems are encountered and then, most likely, you don't need anyone at all for awhile. So it's not very useful to debate whether or not the work of said staffer would be "owned" by a single firm - I'm not talking about that kind of money or that kind of easy accountability for the individual (or, more likely, individuals) in question. It's more likely that the support team will be working multiple problems at once and the fixes they generate may cover multiple overlapping areas of concern for more companies than just your own. > That is, I won't pay for everyone *else*'s fix. But I will pay a reasonable > support charge *if and only if* I get actual fixes to problems like this in > a contemporary fashion. Of course. Such a support contract will only work for you and any other companies participating if fixes are made promptly and competently. When the support team isn't working on problems, I'd expect it to also work on generally improving the system and enhancing it in ways that EVERYONE, and that includes yourself, can benefit from. Otherwise, I don't see much point in establishing such an organization. We're a free software effort and any and all such organizations should be set up with our own unique model somewhere in mind. I don't think that this precludes being accountable or prompt with the commercial partners in any way, especially as there will be a significant motivation on the part of those working on this to make the whole concept work. Most software companies have multiple programmers working for little more than a paycheck which, as any programmer knows, isn't always the most motivating of factors. Being able to work for both a paycheck and some "higher goal" (e.g. the results of your work being touted far and wide for a demonstrably "good cause") would represent the best of all possible worlds for many, and if I can put such an organization together then I think that it would not only work, but also work rather well. > power to them. However, my willingness to pay is directly correlated to the > quality of the fixes and the timeliness of what we receive. Natch. I understand this fully. > If I'm going to pay big bucks, then I want the fixes (and the rest of that > person's time) to myself. If its much more reasonable, then so am I. I think that asking you to pay big bucks would actually be counter-productive to us both. It would raise your expectations unreasonably and also put those in the project in something of a bind as they felt somewhat co-opted by the deal. I think "much more reasonable" is exactly that. Just out of curiousity (and I'll direct this question to any and all listening here, not just Karl), what would you consider "reasonable" and what kind of response time would you expect for it? If I can get some reasonable estimates for the size of the potential customer base and the amount of incoming capital they'd represent, then I think that it's entirely possible that I could turn this from idle conjecture into reality. The Internet has also made it possible to "hire" people to work at home, and as long as their work meets some reasonable standard for response time and quality then I also think that I could put such an organization together with far less overhead than a traditional one with offices, 401K plans, etc. The resultant savings could then be passed back to the customer and/or used to finance longer-term goals for the project. Thoughts? Figures? I think this would be a very significant step forward for FreeBSD, but it's also something that I can't without at least a little help. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 17:38:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA02142 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:38:33 -0700 Received: from lucid.idirect.com (idirect.com [199.166.254.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02127 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:38:29 -0700 Received: from doomnet7.idirect.com (syoung@chaos.idirect.com [199.166.254.11]) by lucid.idirect.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA00983 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:45:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:45:13 -0400 Message-Id: <199507220045.UAA00983@lucid.idirect.com> X-Sender: syoung@idirect.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@FreeBSD.org From: syoung@idirect.com (steve) Subject: problems with new install X-Mailer: Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, I recently purchased the FreeBSD 2.0 Jan'95 CD from Walnut Creek; and I have a couple of odd probs: First, about 60% of the time, during install, I get checksum errors! after a couple of tries, it seems to work; Second, try as I have, I cannot mount any CD in the drive to be used; I've tried 3 score of alternatives: If it helps, I have an AMD 486dx40vlb, 256k cache, 8mb, ATI 1 mb mach32 vlb, with a Future Domain 1680 scsi, wren III 660mb scsi hd, a mitsumi 2xCD, a seagate st-1239a, 200mb ide hd, and a colorado 250mb (floppy) tape, a sound blaster awe32, a LANtastic ae-2 (ne2000) ethernet, and a boca 14,4 fax/modem/voice. The install was multiply attempted on the ide drive, with combinations removing the ethernet card, the network card, etc. The only reported conflict (at boot time) was at i/o 300h with the net card in; there is, however, no other device at that address. I did manage to get it to boot; but I can't access the CD. Any assistance or ideas that you might have will be greatly appreciated. I am going to try a few more variations to see if I can it going. One way or t'other, I'll let you guys know what finally worked! Thanking you in advance, Steve Young thornhill, ontario syoung@idirect.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 17:42:08 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA02342 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:42:08 -0700 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA02336 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:42:06 -0700 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id RAA05069; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:37:48 -0700 Received: from plokta.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-5.3) id AA27297; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:37:43 -0700 Received: by plokta.Eng.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19299; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:37:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 17:37:47 -0700 Message-Id: <9507220037.AA19299@plokta.Eng.Sun.COM> From: "Bryan O'Sullivan" To: tony@thing.sunquest.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-Reply-To: <9507212353.AA20088@thing.sunquest.com> References: <199507212253.QAA21981@rocky.sri.MT.net> <9507212353.AA20088@thing.sunquest.com> Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk t> As far as I understand this (from having a friend who works at t> Cygnus) this is their normal method of operation. Cygnus is different in one moderately important regard: they have the GPL to wave at people who don't want the work Cygnus does on software like gdb distributed to the world. That said, it looks to me like Karl Denninger misunderstands the idea behind providing support in the form of patches for problems. If a paying customer doesn't want a patch to go back into the main source tree, then they will have to either (a) reapply the patch themselves the next time they upgrade their system (assuming the patch can be applied) or (b) pay for another patch to be made by the support people. Neither of these options is cost effective from the customer's point of view, since they waste both money and time. "Owning" a patch for a problem may look good if you don't think it through very far, but it is counterproductive. , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:53:49 MDT." <199507212253.QAA21981@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:25:57 -0700 Message-ID: <21406.806376357@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > [ Paying for support ] > > > > If I'm going to pay for "support", defined as I report problems and some > > organization works on fixing them, where the person(s) time that is used is > > amortized over a lot of people, then that organization "owns" the fixes and > > I get them under what is essentially a license. Eh? What? I must have missed something from Karl here since the quoted text appears in none of the discussions I've seen fly through my mailbox. To answer the above, I think it's a little bit more subtle than that. Karl has worked with the likes of BSDI, where ownership is pretty straight-forward, and thus has certain expectations about how this works. BSDI don't put their software up for anon ftp and they don't give away their work, meaning that the concept of "fix ownership" is more apropos there. That's not really the case here, though you could still use that model with one important twist: FreeBSD, Inc. would "own" the fixes for about 4 nanoseconds and then transfer the redistribution rights straight to the public. Problem solved. I've already replied to Karl's questions of cost and clarified that he would NOT be paying for a full-time engineer. He'd be paying a much more modest fee for the privilege of being able to call a telephone number or send an email for a quick and reliable response. Needless to say, I would not collect so much as *one penny* for support before such time as I had enough people signed up that I knew I could pay the salaries of as many people as I thought would be necessary to run such an org effectively. The last thing I want or need is to collect money and then have a lot of unhappy customers saying that the tech support line is constantly busy or they got fobbed off with an excuse and no fix. There's also the question of what to do when we get a problem report for an area of the system that's clearly in the domain of someone NOT working for the organization. We can't pass the buck to a volunteer, so we need to make sure that we have total coverage of the system replicated in the support organization. This would effectively mean creating a "shadow FreeBSD Project" of sorts, which would take some finesse since it means that the corporation is going to have its own CVS tree and its own lineage of FreeBSD releases or face an even less desirable situation where volunteers are co-opted into working for the org or get their toes stepped on when someone in the corporation rushes in to fix a bug that they're contractually obligated to fix quickly and don't have much choice about. > > If I am going to pay for a person's livelihood in total or substantially in > > total (ie: thousands of dollars a month) then I own their output. > > Period. > > Are you hiring them as a programmer, or as a support person. There is a > subtle difference in my mind. When Cygnus was paid to develop gcc for To clarify this again: If Karl was paying thousands of dollars a month he could HAVE the fixes and probably the support engineer's first-born child as well. That's not the kind of money we're talking about though and I furthermore don't think that this kind of model would work anyway for reasons I stated earlier - neither Karl nor we need the kinds of strings attached that this level of contribution would imply, certainly at least not for a support contract. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 18:48:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA04190 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:48:10 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA04184 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:48:09 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA08055; Fri, 21 Jul 95 19:41:04 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507220141.AA08055@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) To: nate@sneezy.sri.com Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 19:41:04 MDT Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199507212133.PAA21818@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jul 21, 95 03:33:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm happy to pay for *actual* support which I receive, but my feel on this > > is that I am not going to pay for a staffer full-time if the work that he or > > she produces goes back to *everyone*. > > Wow, I hope I'm parsing this in-correctly, but my impression is that > *if* you pay for support, you don't want the fixes to go to anyone else. If he pays a full time staffer for the code, he owns the code. And he can do anything he wants with it, including keeping it to himself. > > If I'm going to pay big bucks, then I want the fixes (and the rest of that > > person's time) to myself. > > What do you gain by keeping the fix all to yourself? I'm not trying to > be a software socialist here, but I fail to understand the logic of > hoarding fixes which everyone can share. FreeBSD was created by a large > number of volunteers who have spent *thousands* of hours of their time > w/out compensation to fix bugs. Isn't it only *fair* to give the fix > you've received back in return? In theory, you gain a competitive advantage by having fixes that your competitor does not: "Buy PPP services from us, they *work*". The problem with this is that OS fixes are generally desirable, and so if it's a desirable fix, then it's going to be done anyway. It really depends if you are selling into a commodity market or not as to whether this would yeild you either no competitive advantage or a short term competitive advantage. That said, there are definite benefits to a short term advantage in terms of acquiring marketshare if what you sell is a commodity. Thre is a corresponding long term loss in this in increased maintenance if the fix isn't generally useful: if it isn't, then the owner has to carry it forward themselves over general updates: not a pleasent prospect. All that said, I think that this is all a misunderstanding over whether he personally would be hiring a full time support person instead of sharing the costs of such a person over several contracts with a centralized support agency (the latter being much more likely). Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 18:57:55 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA04520 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:57:55 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA04514 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:57:54 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA06140; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:57:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199507220157.SAA06140@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams), Karl Denninger , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:25:57 PDT." <21406.806376357@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:57:27 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I think that Karl should shell out thousands of dollars and we split the difference amongs us for all the work that we have done in FreeBSD :) Another way of looking at it, is that commericial interests may not necessarily coincide with the efforts of volunteers or the required environment may not be applicable to most programers; for instance, support for T1 links, problems with the system when it has 128 users or so. Should I go out and buy the necessary equipment to debug such a problem? The other class of problems is the one that may required hardware assist such as a Periscope. Last but not least paying for support may get you into a higher priority. Enjoy, Amancio >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > [ Paying for support ] > > > > > > If I'm going to pay for "support", defined as I report problems and some > > > organization works on fixing them, where the person(s) time that is used is > > > amortized over a lot of people, then that organization "owns" the fixes and > > > I get them under what is essentially a license. > > Eh? What? I must have missed something from Karl here since the > quoted text appears in none of the discussions I've seen fly through > my mailbox. > > To answer the above, I think it's a little bit more subtle than that. > Karl has worked with the likes of BSDI, where ownership is pretty > straight-forward, and thus has certain expectations about how this > works. BSDI don't put their software up for anon ftp and they don't > give away their work, meaning that the concept of "fix ownership" is > more apropos there. That's not really the case here, though you could > still use that model with one important twist: FreeBSD, Inc. would > "own" the fixes for about 4 nanoseconds and then transfer the > redistribution rights straight to the public. Problem solved. > > I've already replied to Karl's questions of cost and clarified that he > would NOT be paying for a full-time engineer. He'd be paying a much > more modest fee for the privilege of being able to call a telephone > number or send an email for a quick and reliable response. > > Needless to say, I would not collect so much as *one penny* for > support before such time as I had enough people signed up that I knew > I could pay the salaries of as many people as I thought would be > necessary to run such an org effectively. The last thing I want or > need is to collect money and then have a lot of unhappy customers > saying that the tech support line is constantly busy or they got > fobbed off with an excuse and no fix. > > There's also the question of what to do when we get a problem report > for an area of the system that's clearly in the domain of someone NOT > working for the organization. We can't pass the buck to a volunteer, > so we need to make sure that we have total coverage of the system > replicated in the support organization. This would effectively mean > creating a "shadow FreeBSD Project" of sorts, which would take some > finesse since it means that the corporation is going to have its own > CVS tree and its own lineage of FreeBSD releases or face an even less > desirable situation where volunteers are co-opted into working for the > org or get their toes stepped on when someone in the corporation > rushes in to fix a bug that they're contractually obligated to fix > quickly and don't have much choice about. > > > > If I am going to pay for a person's livelihood in total or substantially in > > > total (ie: thousands of dollars a month) then I own their output. > > > Period. > > > > Are you hiring them as a programmer, or as a support person. There is a > > subtle difference in my mind. When Cygnus was paid to develop gcc for > > To clarify this again: If Karl was paying thousands of dollars a month > he could HAVE the fixes and probably the support engineer's first-born > child as well. That's not the kind of money we're talking about > though and I furthermore don't think that this kind of model would > work anyway for reasons I stated earlier - neither Karl nor we need > the kinds of strings attached that this level of contribution would > imply, certainly at least not for a support contract. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 20:01:15 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA05900 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:01:15 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA05893 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:01:13 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA10556; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:06:24 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:06:24 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507220306.UAA10556@lightlink.satcom.net> To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jkh@time.cdrom.com, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The "upgrade problem" can't go away until the system configuration data has been divorced for the configuration implementation. Could you give me a specific example? I am not sure what you are talking about. As long as there is one shell script that must be modified to reflect configuration information, upgrading will be a bitch. It seems Ver. 2.0.5 is trying to seperate the configuration data from the shell scripts which execute the corresponding commands. For example, the file /etc/sysconfig contains the configuration information such as whether this host is a NIS client, NIS server, or NFS client, and the IP address for this hosts. It's only when new developement doesn't affect the files containing configuration data that upgrades will become easy. Could the core FreeBSD team consider this suggestion? I think this is a great suggestion since it may help to make upgrade more loyalty-user friendly. In other words, to make the upgrade more friendly will make the loyal user "HAPPY". By the way, to pursuit happiness is one of the fundmental right which documents in the Constitution. Don't feel offense. I am just trying to make the FreeBSD better and greater. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 20:12:51 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA06224 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:12:51 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA06218 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:12:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA26156; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:12:09 -0700 To: Imperial Irrigation District cc: terry@cs.weber.edu, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:06:24 PDT." <199507220306.UAA10556@lightlink.satcom.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 20:12:08 -0700 Message-ID: <26154.806382728@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Could the core FreeBSD team consider this suggestion? I think this is a great > suggestion since it may help to make upgrade more loyalty-user friendly. > In other words, to make the upgrade more friendly will make the loyal user > "HAPPY". What suggestion? Provide an upgrade path? Trust me, we're working on it! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 21:45:56 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA09271 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:45:56 -0700 Received: from mr-p.protocorp.com (d5.leonardo.net [198.147.97.69]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA09264 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:45:54 -0700 Received: from caern.leonardo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mr-p.protocorp.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA00437 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:45:09 GMT Message-Id: <199507212145.VAA00437@mr-p.protocorp.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:43:55 MDT." <9507211743.AA06230@cs.weber.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:45:08 +0000 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert sez: > As far as I know, I'm the only FreeBSD person with a PowerPC box > that intends to run FreeBSD on it eventually... Actually the corporation I work for would be bl**dy deliriously happy to be able to run FreeBSD on PowerPC boxes. Unfortunately this doesn't translate into enough money to actually do a port, but they're paying a couple of us good money to spend time tracking the progress of alternate OSes for that architecture. Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 21:48:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA09401 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:48:09 -0700 Received: from lightlink.satcom.net (lightlink.satcom.net [204.33.174.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA09393 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:48:06 -0700 Received: (from iidpwr@localhost) by lightlink.satcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA11103; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:54:27 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:54:27 -0700 From: Imperial Irrigation District Message-Id: <199507220454.VAA11103@lightlink.satcom.net> To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What suggestion? Provide an upgrade path? Trust me, we're working on it! :-) Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. The suggestions refer to (1) seperate the configuration data from the executable scripts such as rc, rc.local, netstart, ...etc. The advantage of seperating the configuration data from the executable scripts is easier to debug for both the user and the developer. (2) provide an upgrade path. That would speed up the development too because the current developer can upgrade to the latest and greatest. Moreover, that would close the gap between commercial grade OS and non-commercial OS. Most importantly provide an upgrade path is user friendly. Make the user happy. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 21:49:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA09453 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:49:43 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA09447 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:49:40 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA26497; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:48:56 -0700 To: Imperial Irrigation District cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com, terry@cs.weber.edu Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:54:27 PDT." <199507220454.VAA11103@lightlink.satcom.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:48:55 -0700 Message-ID: <26495.806388535@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, we already have work underway for this - it's called /etc/sysconfig, at least in part. Jordan > What suggestion? Provide an upgrade path? Trust me, we're working > on it! :-) > > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. > The suggestions refer to (1) seperate the configuration data > from the executable scripts such as rc, rc.local, netstart, ...etc. > The advantage of seperating the configuration data from the executable script s > is easier to debug for both the user and the developer. > (2) provide an upgrade path. That would speed up the development too because > the current developer can upgrade to the latest and greatest. Moreover, that > would close the gap between commercial grade OS and non-commercial OS. > Most importantly provide an upgrade path is user friendly. Make the user > happy. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 22:06:06 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA10056 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:06:06 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA10048 ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:06:02 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA14561; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:05:55 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507220505.WAA14561@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net (Imperial Irrigation District) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Cc: iidpwr@lightlink.satcom.net, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com, hsu@cs.hut.fi, jmacd@freefall.cdrom.com, karl@mcs.com, terry@cs.weber.edu In-Reply-To: <199507220454.VAA11103@lightlink.satcom.net> from "Imperial Irrigation District" at Jul 21, 95 09:54:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2183 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What suggestion? Provide an upgrade path? Trust me, we're working > on it! :-) > > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. > The suggestions refer to (1) seperate the configuration data > from the executable scripts such as rc, rc.local, netstart, ...etc. > The advantage of seperating the configuration data from the executable scripts > is easier to debug for both the user and the developer. This is work in process. If you look at the 2.0.5R versions of rc, and netstart at the top they have clear markers saying that if for some reason you need to modify this file we would like to know about it. >From those markers I have 40 some odd submissions of things to correct and enhance in /etc/rc and netstart to rectify the things folks had to tweak. Once I get this all intergrated (and most of it is done) and fully tested (some changes are in the field being used day to day, so I know them to be safe, others are, well, rather untested and have known problems) it will go into the 2.2 -current developement branch for a more extensive testing. Some or all of this may end up in 2.1, but I will not make promises at this date on that, it is a _very_ complex problem, that you just can't say seperate the data from the executable and be done with it as some of it involves very intertwined sequences that must be different depending on site configuration. (ie, diskless operation puts a royal twist into the order of events in /etc/rc, this is one problem I know I can not get solved by 2.1, gated puts another twist in with respect to when you clean /var/lock, etc, etc, etc :-(). > (2) provide an upgrade path. That would speed up the development too because > the current developer can upgrade to the latest and greatest. Moreover, that > would close the gap between commercial grade OS and non-commercial OS. > Most importantly provide an upgrade path is user friendly. Make the user > happy. I am not involved in that effort, but my understanding is that something is being worked on for this as well. > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Jul 21 22:29:03 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA11231 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:29:03 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA11224 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:29:01 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:28:55 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:28:56 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >There's also the question of what to do when we get a problem report >for an area of the system that's clearly in the domain of someone NOT >working for the organization. We can't pass the buck to a volunteer, >so we need to make sure that we have total coverage of the system >replicated in the support organization. This would effectively mean >creating a "shadow FreeBSD Project" of sorts, which would take some >finesse since it means that the corporation is going to have its own >CVS tree and its own lineage of FreeBSD releases or face an even less >desirable situation where volunteers are co-opted into working for the >org or get their toes stepped on when someone in the corporation >rushes in to fix a bug that they're contractually obligated to fix >quickly and don't have much choice about. I think this is the crux of the problem. If you have a real support organization, they will soon INSIST that THEY have control of THEIR source tree. Once they implement a fix, it would have to become mainstream. New code entering the tree would be required to pass significant testing, etc. In short, you would soon have another BSDI. I am not sure that that could co-exist with the volunteer organization. Thought for discussion: What if the "for pay" group were the release engineers and responsible for the changes that go into the -STABLE tree? Volunteers could only submit to -current or through the group engineers. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 00:51:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA12925 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:51:00 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA12919 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:50:59 -0700 Received: from nike (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA19242; Sat, 22 Jul 95 00:49:47 PDT Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:58:41 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@nike To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-Reply-To: <199507220505.WAA14561@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > What suggestion? Provide an upgrade path? Trust me, we're working > > on it! :-) > > > > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. > > The suggestions refer to (1) seperate the configuration data > > from the executable scripts such as rc, rc.local, netstart, ...etc. > > The advantage of seperating the configuration data from the executable scripts > > is easier to debug for both the user and the developer. > > This is work in process. If you look at the 2.0.5R versions of rc, and > netstart at the top they have clear markers saying that if for some > reason you need to modify this file we would like to know about it. does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in the tradion of the other options... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 00:59:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id AAA13077 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:59:41 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA13071 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:59:38 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA14896; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:59:42 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199507220759.AAA14896@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: gurney_j@efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Jul 22, 95 00:58:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1566 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > > > > What suggestion? Provide an upgrade path? Trust me, we're working > > > on it! :-) > > > > > > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. > > > The suggestions refer to (1) seperate the configuration data > > > from the executable scripts such as rc, rc.local, netstart, ...etc. > > > The advantage of seperating the configuration data from the executable scripts > > > is easier to debug for both the user and the developer. > > > > This is work in process. If you look at the 2.0.5R versions of rc, and > > netstart at the top they have clear markers saying that if for some > > reason you need to modify this file we would like to know about it. > > does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, > xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in > the tradion of the other options... Yes please, context or uni diffs are nice :-). Though xfs, xdm and pcnfsd are not part of the system and thus belong in /etc/rc.local as a sight specific thing (rc.local is going to dissappear some day very soon from the distribution and will truely become an optional site specific file so that we do not over write any current version of it). bootp does need to go in, so that looks like the only real one you have for me :-). And it is one I some how still have missing from my current work :-( -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 01:08:54 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA13460 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:08:54 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA13454 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:08:51 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA27479 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:08:47 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id LAA02641; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:08:50 +0300 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:08:50 +0300 Message-Id: <199507220808.LAA02641@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Michael Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: Michael Smith's message of 20 Jul 1995 04:26:48 +0300 Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.x may not run on Cyrix 486DL Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Unless someone can overcorrect me, I'd ask that this be read as "some" Cyrix chips; certainly their DX40 and DX2/66 parts _appear_ to behave appropriately. On some motherboards, yes. We had cheap taiwanese motherboards (microstar) which didn't work with Cyrix parts, even though they seem reliable with other cpus. The symptoms were lockups, several times a day. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 01:45:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id BAA14813 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:45:42 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA14805 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 01:45:40 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA27674 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for ); Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:45:30 +0300 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id LAA02660; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:45:34 +0300 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:45:34 +0300 Message-Id: <199507220845.LAA02660@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: nate@sneezy.sri.com's message of 22 Jul 1995 01:42:31 +0300 Subject: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otaniemi, Finland Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm happy to pay for *actual* support which I receive, but my feel on this > is that I am not going to pay for a staffer full-time if the work that he or > she produces goes back to *everyone*. Wow, I hope I'm parsing this in-correctly, but my impression is that *if* you pay for support, you don't want the fixes to go to anyone else. I'm only willing to pay for support if the fixes are passed to everyone. This also includes NetBSD folks in here, I won't support anything which takes *BSD* further apart. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 02:25:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id CAA16270 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 02:25:23 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA16263 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 02:25:20 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA26034; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:11:55 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199507220941.TAA26034@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: gurney_j@efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:11:55 +0930 (CST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Jul 22, 95 00:58:41 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 972 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk John-Mark Gurney stands accused of saying: > > This is work in process. If you look at the 2.0.5R versions of rc, and > > netstart at the top they have clear markers saying that if for some > > reason you need to modify this file we would like to know about it. > > does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, > xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in > the tradion of the other options... Well yes, for some of them. Xdm is probably better started out of /etc/ttys, and pcnfsd is already handled by inetd. > John-Mark -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" - Terry Lambert [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 08:39:43 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id IAA00204 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 08:39:43 -0700 Received: from wdl1.wdl.loral.com (wdl1.wdl.loral.com [137.249.32.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA00189 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 08:39:42 -0700 Received: from miles.sso.loral.com (miles.wdl.loral.com) by wdl1.wdl.loral.com (5.x/WDL-2.4-1.0) id AA09857; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 08:18:20 -0700 Received: by miles.sso.loral.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA05544; Sat, 22 Jul 95 11:18:40 EDT Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:18:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers Subject: missing xdr routines ?? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I seem to be missing 2 xdr routines. These are xdr_float and xdr_double. The file has prototypes for them , but I could not find them in libc.a. I was able to find all of the rest mentioned in the man page. I checked both 2.0 and 2.0.5 libraries. What is the status on these? Known problem, oversight, feature? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 09:04:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA00782 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:04:41 -0700 Received: from kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br [143.106.13.10]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA00776 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:04:36 -0700 Received: (from vazquez@localhost) by kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (8.6.10/8.6.9) id MAA19072; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:49:14 -0300 From: Pedro A M Vazquez Message-Id: <199507221549.MAA19072@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Subject: Re: missing xdr routines ?? To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:49:10 -0300 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Jul 22, 95 11:18:38 am Organization: Instituto de Quimica Unicamp X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1378 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm using this code I got from pvm2.4.1: int xdr_float(xdrp, fp) XDR *xdrp; float *fp; { return xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)fp); } int xdr_double(xdrp, dp) XDR *xdrp; double *dp; { return xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)dp + 1) && xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)dp); } Pedro Richard Toren said: > > I seem to be missing 2 xdr routines. These are xdr_float and xdr_double. > The file has prototypes for them , but I could not find them > in libc.a. I was able to find all of the rest mentioned in the man page. > I checked both 2.0 and 2.0.5 libraries. > > What is the status on these? Known problem, oversight, feature? > > ==================================================== > Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | > rpt@miles.sso.loral.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | > | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | > | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | > | by Anderson & Heinze | > ==================================================== > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 09:10:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01068 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:10:16 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01055 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:10:14 -0700 Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA28866 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:23:16 -0700 Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA07800; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:18:21 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:18:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Nate Williams cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-Reply-To: <199507212133.PAA21818@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Nate Williams wrote: > Even BSDI's support policy isn't this way AFAIK. If there are bugs in > the system which get fixed by the support staff, *everyone* shares in > those fixes. Well, kind of. non-paying customers don't have access to all the patches and updates. THey have to wait until the next release. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 09:11:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01225 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:11:37 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01215 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:11:36 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA28841 ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:12:57 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA29510; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:07:31 -0700 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 00:28:56 CDT." Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:07:30 -0700 Message-ID: <29507.806422050@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think this is the crux of the problem. If you have a real support > organization, they will soon INSIST that THEY have control of THEIR > source tree. Once they implement a fix, it would have to become mainstream. > New code entering the tree would be required to pass significant testing, etc Well, I think it's less a matter of "INSIST" and more a matter of "NEED". Once the organization is truly on the hook to provide a product who's stability and reliability is a known quantity (inasmuch as such can ever be known) then yes, it's going to have to have a lot more control over what goes in and what doesn't. It simply won't be able to exist otherwise since it couldn't deliver a guaranteed response time with something that was constantly shifting under its feet. However, as you suggest, I don't see this as much different than our current STABLE branch scenario with all changes having to be approved by one person (David) and a very tight degree of control being exerted over it. Nobody has screamed about STABLE being unable to co-exist with the current volunteer org and I'd say that it's more likely that the volunteer org would be quite happy to have the rather constricting and less-fun-and-more-business responsibility for STABLE go elsewhere. The real joy has always been in hacking current where ideas and general progress are less restricted. This doesn't mean that STABLE would be hidden from the world, and I'd say that the snapshots and releases of it would still go out just as regularly as they do now. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 09:11:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01258 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:11:40 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01241 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:11:38 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA28896 ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:32:50 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA29561; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:27:23 -0700 To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:45:34 +0300." <199507220845.LAA02660@shadows.cs.hut.fi> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 07:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <29559.806423243@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm only willing to pay for support if the fixes are passed to everyone. > This also includes NetBSD folks in here, I won't support anything which > takes *BSD* further apart. As I've clarified numerous times - the fixes would be made publically available. I'm not going to try to stuff these fixes down NetBSD's throat, however, and it's going to have to remain their choice as to whether or not they adopt them. Several people now have come out and said things like "I'll only give you this code if you don't keep it out of the hands of NetBSD" or expressed sentiments like the above, and I can only wonder how people are forming the impression that we're of any sort of mind to restrict our work this way. If anyone is to be castigated for hiding their work it's the NetBSD group who seem to have several branches of development, only one of which is made available through -current and open to us - you can frequently see commit messages in their mailing lists for which the code is then not made publically available for a week or more. I'm not jumping up and down asking them to change this practice, mind you (they wouldn't anyway) but simply trying to point out that these accusations (or implications) that we'd hold fixes back where NetBSD is concerned only adds insult to injury! We are a lot more open with our work than they are and will continue to be so. Period. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 09:16:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id JAA01623 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:16:49 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.34]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA01616 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:16:40 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CAA12978; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 02:14:55 +1000 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 02:14:55 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199507221614.CAA12978@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, rpt@miles.sso.loral.com Subject: Re: missing xdr routines ?? Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I seem to be missing 2 xdr routines. These are xdr_float and xdr_double. >... >What is the status on these? Known problem, oversight, feature? They weren't in 4.4lite for some reason, and no one has investigated. I think there are no problems except possibly byte order. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 12:08:59 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA00438 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:08:59 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00400 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:08:56 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA29609 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:52:38 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT6JSVF8XC004L06@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:10:43 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id TAA29698 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:22:54 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:22:54 +0200 From: "Christoph P. Kukulies" Subject: atapi cdrom driver (wcd) works To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Message-id: <199507221722.TAA29698@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk All I can say, it works. I built ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/incoming/wcd11.tgz into a (not very current) kernel and it works fine. I could mount my 2.0.5 Release CD. Some quirks (though I don't know if it's my older vintage -current on which I tried): wcd0 should get an 'official' major device number for both, character and block device. Currently it has 18 for the block and 64 for the raw (character) device ; the latter conflicting with a driver 'Talisman' sitting there. I gave it 67 in my system. It would be nice if someone could take care for the device number issue and commit it soon. --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 12:09:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA00464 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:09:00 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00423 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:08:56 -0700 Received: from mail.rwth-aachen.de (mail.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.144.9]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA29612 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:52:47 -0700 Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de by mail.rwth-aachen.de (PMDF V4.3-10 #7297) id <01HT6JW3UK9S004LSQ@mail.rwth-aachen.de>; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:13:20 +0100 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.8/8.6.9) id TAA29720; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:25:37 +0200 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:25:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christoph Kukulies Subject: Re: 950722 current kernel won't compile In-reply-to: <199507221624.MAA05520@quirk.com> from "cstruble@vt.edu" at Jul 22, 95 12:24:55 pm To: cstruble@vt.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com (user alias) Reply-to: kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de Reply-to: Christoph Kukulies Message-id: <199507221725.TAA29720@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-length: 962 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'm trying to compile current, and there's a missing header file > 'vat_audio.h' used in conf.c. I seem to remember it being removed > recently since vat is being replaced by sockets (I don't have the > message still around though.) Do you have pseudodevice vat_audio in your kernel config? Besides from that: vat_audio does not work with -current. > > For now I'm just going to create an empty file and chug along. > See ya later, > Craig > -- > Craig Struble - Grad Student, Consultant, | World's most versatile C program > Student ACM Co-President, Virginia Tech | (*nix version) > Email - cstruble@vt.edu | > URL - http://acm.vt.edu/~cstruble/ | #include "/dev/tty" > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de FreeBSD blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de 2.2-CURRENT FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Tue Jul 18 14:49:19 MET DST 1995 kuku@blues.physik.rwth-aachen.de: /usr/src/sys/compile/BLUESGUS i386 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 12:09:04 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA00502 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:09:04 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00453 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:08:59 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA29583 ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:43:39 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA29900; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:38:13 -0700 To: Pedro A M Vazquez cc: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren), hackers@FREEBSD.ORG Subject: Re: missing xdr routines ?? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:49:10 -0300." <199507221549.MAA19072@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:38:13 -0700 Message-ID: <29898.806438293@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@FREEBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm using this code I got from pvm2.4.1: > > int > xdr_float(xdrp, fp) > XDR *xdrp; > float *fp; > { > return xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)fp); > } > > int > xdr_double(xdrp, dp) > XDR *xdrp; > double *dp; > { > return xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)dp + 1) > && xdr_long(xdrp, (long*)dp); > } So what's the concensus, folks? Should we add these? Were they omitted for a reason? If not, I'll add them in the next 24 hours. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 12:09:10 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA00565 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:09:10 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA00509 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:09:06 -0700 Received: from linux4nn.iaf.nl (linux4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA29447 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 10:36:42 -0700 Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA19653; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:49:16 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25702 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:31:39 +0100 Received: by iafnl.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA30690 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:50:36 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.8/8.6.6) id XAA01017; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 23:28:52 +0200 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199507212128.XAA01017@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5-950622-SNAP To: john@starfire.mn.org (John Lind) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 23:28:51 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FREEBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199507211515.KAA02370@starfire.mn.org> from "John Lind" at Jul 21, 95 10:15:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 784 Sender: hackers-owner@FREEBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >_ > > Do I remember reading an announcement that this SNAP will not run on a > 4Mb machine? I just tried it on my test-bench 386 w/4Mb, and it croaked > right after loading the kernel, before uncompressing... > > John Lind, Starfire Consulting Services > E-mail: john@starfire.MN.ORG USnail: PO Box 17247, Mpls MN 55417 Beats me if it was this particular SNAP, but some time ago I had one that definitely needed 8Mb. With 4Mb the same thing happened as you experience. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 12:34:37 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id MAA01563 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:34:37 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA01557 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:34:34 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA00267 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 13:37:13 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 13:37:13 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199507221937.NAA00267@trout.sri.MT.net> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: MX records and sendmail Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How do I go about setting up a MX record such that email to site A is sent to site B but is only queued up instead of being delivered to the users on Site B. Machine A is connected to the Internet via a SLIP line, which goes down whenever I need the phone or need the computer for non-BSD work. Machine B is on the Internet full-time, and is the primary DNS box for my sub-net. I added the MX record to point to machine B which machine A is down, but it was orginally rejecting the email until I modified the sendmail.cf file to accept mail to machine B. However, now it's delivering the email to the users on machine B instead of queing up the email and waiting until machine A is back up, and I can't send email from machine B to A since B knows it's machine A. Is this possible? Since I have access to both machines, I know that I can at least get the mail destined to machine A no matter what if it at least spools on machine B. Thanks in advance, Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 13:41:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id NAA03422 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 13:41:28 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA03416 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 13:41:19 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA10002; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:49:02 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id QAA09927; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:41:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:41:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MX records and sendmail In-Reply-To: <199507221937.NAA00267@trout.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You shouldn't add Machine A to Machine B's Cw array. That will make Machine B think it actually *IS* machine A. What you should tell machine B to do is try machines directly if it is the most preferred site. [Ow should have a True in it]. Normally what will happen is say you have Site A MX 10 Site B in the DNS entry, what will happen is B will freak out trying to send back to itself on the MX try. Site B is the best site for A, it should try A directly. What will happen is the mail will be held in B's queue until A comes back online. What might work for you otherwise is: Site A MX 5 Site A MX 10 Site B so B will try to send the mail to A if it can. Though setting Ow to True works over here. Hope it helps, -Jerry. On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Nate Williams wrote: > How do I go about setting up a MX record such that email to site A is > sent to site B but is only queued up instead of being delivered to the > users on Site B. > > Machine A is connected to the Internet via a SLIP line, which goes down > whenever I need the phone or need the computer for non-BSD work. > Machine B is on the Internet full-time, and is the primary DNS box for > my sub-net. > > I added the MX record to point to machine B which machine A is down, but > it was orginally rejecting the email until I modified the sendmail.cf > file to accept mail to machine B. However, now it's delivering the > email to the users on machine B instead of queing up the email and > waiting until machine A is back up, and I can't send email from machine > B to A since B knows it's machine A. > > Is this possible? Since I have access to both machines, I know that I > can at least get the mail destined to machine A no matter what if it at > least spools on machine B. > > Thanks in advance, > > Nate > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 14:38:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id OAA05103 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 14:38:40 -0700 Received: from floyd.santarosa.edu (floyd.santarosa.edu [198.189.21.38]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA05096 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 14:38:38 -0700 Received: from floyd.santarosa.edu.santarosa.edu (p6.pma.santarosa.edu [198.189.21.249]) by floyd.santarosa.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA23717 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 14:38:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199507222138.OAA23717@floyd.santarosa.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Dominic Franchetti" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:39:14 +0000 Subject: Re: ZIP drives Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 07:13:04 -0500 > From: Peter da Silva > To: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: ZIP drives > The Iomega ZIP drive looks just big enough to let me install FreeBSD on one, > using the live file system CD, to let me do test installs and stuff pretty > cheapl ($20 per 100M cartridge). Has anyone any input into this? > > Especially: has anyone used one under FreeBSD, or booted from one? > > Syquest just came out with there 135MB drive that is faster than IOMEGA's. It's about the same price and available in both IDE and SCSI. There available from MicroWharehouse. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 15:06:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA06108 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:06:26 -0700 Received: (from phk@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA06101 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:06:25 -0700 From: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-Id: <199507222206.PAA06101@freefall.cdrom.com> Subject: Please try this new malloc(3) To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:06:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 19555 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi Gang, Here is a new (old actually) malloc that I have made. I belive it is fully working and functional. The performance seems to be comparable to the gnu malloc, (generally marginally better I think :-) and the copyright is a lot more permissive. In particular I'm interested in hearing what it does to a X-server, and any problems it causes there or other places. It doesn't use sbrk(2) to get memory, but rather mmap(2), since this allows pages to be returned to the kernel's freepool again. This means less memory consumed, less paging and so on. (this also means that you cannot call sbrk/brk too destructively, and that's why I emulate them.) Please send me all your results, so I can see if this holds water. I need to make sure that all the comments make sense, so don't be surprised if they say something weird. If people generally don't complain, then I think it is a suitable replacement for the current malloc in freebsd, which it runs circles around. Poul-Henning /* * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * "THE BEER-WARE LICENSE" (Revision 42): * wrote this file. As long as you retain this notice you * can do whatever you want with this stuff. If we meet some day, and you think * this stuff is worth it, you can buy me a beer in return. Poul-Henning Kamp * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * * $Id$ * */ #if defined(__i386__) && defined(__FreeBSD__) # warning FreeBSD i386 constants hardcoded. /* If these weren't defined here, they would be calculated on the fly */ # define malloc_pagesize 4096U # define malloc_pageshift 12U # define malloc_minsize 16U #endif /* __i386__ && __FreeBSD__ */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #ifdef MAIN # define SANITY # define DEBUG # define __inline /* */ #endif /* MAIN */ /* * This structure describes a page's worth of chunks. */ struct pginfo { struct pginfo *next; /* next on the free list */ void *page; /* Pointer to the page */ u_short size; /* size of this page's chunks */ u_short shift; /* How far to shift for this size chunks */ u_short free; /* How many free chunks */ u_short total; /* How many chunk */ u_long bits[1]; /* Which chunks are free */ }; /* * How many bits per u_long in the bitmap. * Change only if not 8 bits/byte */ #define MALLOC_BITS (8*sizeof(u_long)) /* * Magic values to put in the page_directory */ #define MALLOC_NOT_MINE ((struct pginfo*) 0) #define MALLOC_FREE ((struct pginfo*) 1) #define MALLOC_FIRST ((struct pginfo*) 2) #define MALLOC_FOLLOW ((struct pginfo*) 3) #define MALLOC_MAGIC ((struct pginfo*) 4) /* * The i386 architecture has some very convenient instructions. * We might as well use them. */ #ifdef __i386__ # warning i386 inline assembly used. #define ffs _ffs static __inline int _ffs(unsigned input) { int result; asm("bsfl %1,%0" : "=r" (result) : "r" (input)); return result+1; } #define fls _fls static __inline int _fls(unsigned input) { int result; asm("bsrl %1,%0" : "=r" (result) : "r" (input)); return result+1; } #define set_bit _set_bit static __inline void _set_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { asm("btsl %0,(%1)" : : "r" (bit & (MALLOC_BITS-1)), "r" (pi->bits+(bit/MALLOC_BITS))); } #define clr_bit _clr_bit static __inline void _clr_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { asm("btcl %0,(%1)" : : "r" (bit & (MALLOC_BITS-1)), "r" (pi->bits+(bit/MALLOC_BITS))); } #endif __i386__ /* * Set to one when malloc_init has been called */ static unsigned initialized; /* * The size of a page. * Must be a integral multiplum of the granularity of mmap(2). * Your toes will curl if it isn't a power of two */ #ifdef malloc_pagesize #define malloc_pagemask ((malloc_pagesize)-1) #define malloc_maxsize ((malloc_pagesize)>>1) #else static unsigned malloc_pagesize; #endif /* malloc_pagesize */ /* * Bitmask to find offset in page */ #ifndef malloc_pagemask static unsigned malloc_pagemask; #endif /* malloc_pagemask */ /* * malloc_pagesize == 1 << malloc_pageshift */ #ifndef malloc_pageshift static unsigned malloc_pageshift; #endif /* malloc_pageshift */ /* * The smallest allocation we bother about. * See comments in malloc_init() for details. * Must be power of two */ #ifndef malloc_minsize static unsigned malloc_minsize; #endif /* malloc_minsize */ /* * The largest chunk we care about. * Must be smaller than pagesize * Must be power of two */ #ifndef malloc_maxsize static unsigned malloc_maxsize; #endif /* malloc_maxsize */ /* * The offset from pagenumber to index into the page directory */ static u_long malloc_origo; /* * The last page we care about. * This is also the "brk()/sbrk()" point */ static u_long malloc_lastpage; /* * Pointer to page directory. * Allocated "as if with" malloc */ static struct pginfo **page_dir; /* * How many slots in the page directory */ static unsigned malloc_ninfo; /* * A small cache of pages so we don't call mmap/munmap too much */ #ifdef NFP #define NFP 10 static void *freepage[NFP]; #endif /* NFP */ static set_pgdir(void *, struct pginfo *); /* * Write something to stderr without all the luggage of stdio */ static void wrterror(char *p) { char *q = "malloc(): "; write(2,q,strlen(q)); write(2,p,strlen(p)); abort(); } #ifdef DEBUG void malloc_dump(FILE *fd) { struct pginfo **pd; int i,j; pd = page_dir; /* find last touched page */ for(i=malloc_ninfo-1;i>=0;i--) if (pd[i]) break; /* print out all the pages */ for(j=0;j<=i;j++) { fprintf(fd,"%08lx %5d ",(j+malloc_origo) << malloc_pageshift,j); if (pd[j] == MALLOC_NOT_MINE) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_NOT_MINE;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d not mine\n", j); } else if (pd[j] == MALLOC_FREE) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_FREE;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d free\n", j); } else if (pd[j] == MALLOC_FIRST) { for(j++;j<=i && pd[j] == MALLOC_FOLLOW;j++) ; j--; fprintf(fd,".. %5d in use\n", j); } else if (pd[j] < MALLOC_MAGIC) { fprintf(fd,"(%d)\n", j); } else { fprintf(fd,"%p %ld x %ld @ %p\n", pd[j],pd[j]->free, pd[j]->size, pd[j]->page); } } /* print out various info */ fprintf(fd,"Minsize\t%d\n",malloc_minsize); fprintf(fd,"Maxsize\t%d\n",malloc_maxsize); fprintf(fd,"Pagesize\t%d\n",malloc_pagesize); fprintf(fd,"Pageshift\t%d\n",malloc_pageshift); fprintf(fd,"FirstPage\t%ld\n",malloc_origo); fprintf(fd,"LastPage\t%ld %lx\n",malloc_lastpage,malloc_lastpage << malloc_pageshift); fprintf(fd,"Break\t%ld\n",(u_long)sbrk(0) >> malloc_pageshift); } #endif /* DEBUG */ /* * Allocate a number of pages from the OS */ static __inline caddr_t map_pages(void *where, int pages) { caddr_t result; if (!where) { where = (void*)(malloc_lastpage << malloc_pageshift); malloc_lastpage += pages; } result = mmap(where, pages << malloc_pageshift, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE | PROT_EXEC, MAP_ANON, -1, 0); if (result != (caddr_t) -1) return result; return 0; } /* * Return pages to the OS if we can */ static __inline void unmap_pages(caddr_t ptr, int pages) { if (munmap(ptr, pages << malloc_pageshift)) wrterror("botch: munmap failed. (wild pointer ?)\n"); } /* * Set a bit in the bitmap */ #ifndef set_bit static __inline void set_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] |= 1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS); } #endif /* set_bit */ /* * Clear a bit in the bitmap */ #ifndef clr_bit static __inline void clr_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] &= ~(1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS)); } #endif /* clr_bit */ #ifdef SANITY #ifndef tst_bit /* * Test a bit in the bitmap */ static __inline int tst_bit(struct pginfo *pi, int bit) { return pi->bits[bit/MALLOC_BITS] & (1<<(bit%MALLOC_BITS)); } #endif /* tst_bit */ #endif /* SANITY */ /* * Find last bit */ #ifndef fls static __inline int fls(int size) { int i = 1; while (size >>= 1) i++; return i; } #endif /* fls */ /* * Extend page directory */ static int extend_page_directory(u_long index) { struct pginfo **new,**old; int i; /* Make it this many pages */ i = index * sizeof *page_dir; i /= malloc_pagesize; i += 2; /* Get new pages, if you used this much mem you don't care :-) */ new = (struct pginfo**) map_pages(0,i); if (!new) return 0; /* Copy the old stuff */ memset(new, 0, i * malloc_pagesize); memcpy(new, page_dir, malloc_ninfo * sizeof *page_dir); /* register the new size */ malloc_ninfo = i * malloc_pagesize / sizeof *page_dir; /* swap the pointers */ old = page_dir; page_dir = new; /* Mark the pages */ set_pgdir(new,MALLOC_FIRST); while (--i) { new += malloc_pagesize; set_pgdir(new,MALLOC_FOLLOW); } /* Now free the old stuff */ free(old); } /* * Set entry in page directory. * Extend page directory if need be. */ static __inline int set_pgdir(void *ptr, struct pginfo *info) { u_long index = ((u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo; if (index >= malloc_ninfo) extend_page_directory(index); page_dir[index] = info; return 1; } /* * Initialize the world */ static void malloc_init () { int i; extern char end; #ifndef malloc_pagesize /* determine our pagesize */ malloc_pagesize = getpagesize(); #endif /* malloc_pagesize */ #ifndef malloc_pageshift /* determine how much we shift by to get there */ for (i = malloc_pagesize; i > 1; i >>= 1) malloc_pageshift++; #endif /* malloc_pageshift */ #ifndef malloc_pagemask /* and how many bits are left */ malloc_pagemask = malloc_pagesize - 1; #endif /* malloc_pagemask */ #ifndef malloc_maxsize /* we will allocate whole pages if bigger than: */ malloc_maxsize = malloc_pagesize >> 1; #endif /* malloc_maxsize */ #ifndef malloc_minsize /* * find the smallest size allocation we will bother about * this is determined as the smallest allocation that can hold * it's own pginfo; */ i = 2; for(;;) { int j; /* Figure out the size of the bits */ j = malloc_pagesize/i; j /= 8; if (j < sizeof(u_long)) j = sizeof (u_long); if (sizeof(struct pginfo) + j - sizeof (u_long) <= i) break; i += i; } malloc_minsize = i; #endif /* malloc_minsize */ malloc_lastpage = ((u_long)&end + malloc_pagesize-1) >> malloc_pageshift; /* Allocate one page for the page directory */ page_dir = (struct pginfo **) map_pages(0,1); if (!page_dir) wrterror("fatal: my first mmap failed. (check limits ?)\n"); /* * We need a maximum of malloc_pageshift buckets, steal these from the * front of the page_directory; */ malloc_origo = (u_long) page_dir >> malloc_pageshift; malloc_origo -= malloc_pageshift; /* Clear it */ memset(page_dir,0,malloc_pagesize); /* Find out how much it tells us */ malloc_ninfo = malloc_pagesize / sizeof *page_dir; /* Plug the page directory into itself */ i = set_pgdir(page_dir,MALLOC_FIRST); if (!i) wrterror("fatal: couldn't set myself in the page directory\n"); /* Been here, done that */ initialized++; } /* * Allocate a number of complete pages */ void * malloc_pages(size_t size) { void *p,*q; int i; struct pginfo **pi,**pe; /* How many pages ? */ size += (malloc_pagesize-1); size >>= malloc_pageshift; /* Look for free pages before asking for more */ pi = page_dir + malloc_pageshift; pe = page_dir + (malloc_lastpage - malloc_origo); p = 0; if (size == 1) { #ifdef NFP for(i=0;i> bits)+MALLOC_BITS-1) / MALLOC_BITS); if ((1<<(bits-1)) <= l) { bp = (struct pginfo *)pp; l += (1<>= bits; } else { bp = (struct pginfo *)malloc(l); l = 0; } if (!bp) return 0; i = set_pgdir(pp,bp); if (!i) return 0; bp->size = (1<shift = bits; bp->total = bp->free = malloc_pagesize >> bits; bp->next = 0; bp->page = pp; #ifdef SANITY if (bp->size < malloc_minsize || bp->size > malloc_maxsize) wrterror("sanity: chunk has abnormal size.\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ /* We can safely assume that there is nobody in this chain */ page_dir[bits] = bp; /* set all valid bits in the bits */ k = bp->total; i = 0; for(;k-i >= MALLOC_BITS; i += MALLOC_BITS) bp->bits[i / MALLOC_BITS] = ~0; for(; i < k; i++) set_bit(bp,i); /* We may have used the first ones already */ for(i=0;ifree--; bp->total--; } return 1; } /* * Allocate a fragment */ static void __inline * malloc_bytes(size_t size) { int j; /* Find the right bucket */ if (size < malloc_minsize) size = malloc_minsize; j = fls((size)-1); #ifdef EXTRA_SANITY if (size > (1<bits; for (; !*lp; lp++) ; k = ffs(*lp) - 1; *lp ^= 1<free--; if (!bp->free) { page_dir[j] = bp->next; bp->next = 0; } k += (lp-bp->bits)*MALLOC_BITS; return bp->page + (k << bp->shift); } if (!malloc_make_chunks(j)) return 0; } } void * malloc(size_t size) { if (!initialized) malloc_init(); if (size <= malloc_maxsize) return malloc_bytes(size); return malloc_pages(size); } void * realloc(void *ptr, size_t size) { void *p; u_long osize; struct pginfo **mp; if (!initialized) malloc_init(); if (ptr && !size) { free(ptr); return 0; } mp = &page_dir[((u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift) - malloc_origo]; if (*mp == MALLOC_FIRST) { osize = malloc_pagesize; while (mp[1] == MALLOC_FOLLOW) { osize += malloc_pagesize; mp++; } } else { osize = (*mp)->size; } p = malloc(size); if (p && ptr) { if (osize < size) memcpy(p,ptr,osize); else memcpy(p,ptr,size); free(ptr); } return p; } static void free_pages(void *ptr) { u_long page; int i,j,index; #ifdef SANITY if ((u_long)ptr & malloc_pagemask) wrterror("sanity: freeing messed up page pointer.\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ page = (u_long)ptr >> malloc_pageshift; index = page - malloc_origo; /* Count how many pages it is */ for (i = 1; page_dir[index+i] == MALLOC_FOLLOW; i++) ; #ifdef NFP for(j=0;j> malloc_pageshift; index = page - malloc_origo; info = page_dir[index]; if (info == MALLOC_FIRST) return free_pages(ptr); #ifdef SANITY if (info <= MALLOC_MAGIC) wrterror("sanity: freeing something wrong.\n"); if ((u_long)ptr & (info->size - 1)) wrterror("sanity: freeing messed up chunk pointer\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ i = ((u_long)ptr & malloc_pagemask) >> info->shift; #ifdef SANITY if (tst_bit(info,i)) wrterror("sanity: bit already set.\n"); #endif /* SANITY */ set_bit(info,i); info->free++; mp = page_dir + info->shift; if (info->free == 1) { /* Link in front of chain */ info->next = *mp; *mp = info; return; } if (info->free != info->total) return; /* * This keeps at least one index-page around for each size. * The benefit is decent considering the overhead (7 pages) */ if (!info->next && (page_dir[info->shift] == info)) return; while (*mp != info) mp = &((*mp)->next); *mp = info->next; set_pgdir(info->page,MALLOC_FIRST); if((void*)info->page == (void*)info) { free_pages(info->page); } else { free_pages(info->page); free(info); } } char * brk(const char *ptr) { if (!initialized) malloc_init(); wrterror("botch: somebody called brk(). (Don't!)\n"); return 0; } #ifndef NOSBRK char * sbrk(int delta) { if (!initialized) malloc_init(); if (delta) wrterror("botch: somebody called sbrk(!=0). (Don't)\n"); return (void*) (malloc_lastpage << malloc_pageshift); } #endif /* NOSBRK */ #ifdef MAIN /* TEST STUFF */ #define NBUCKETS 2000 #define NOPS 1000000 void *foo[NBUCKETS]; int main() { int i,j,k; void *bar; setbuf(stdout,0); setbuf(stderr,0); bar = malloc(1); malloc_dump(stderr); free(bar); malloc_dump(stderr); for (i = 0 ; i < NOPS ; i++) { j = rand() % NBUCKETS; if (foo[j]) { /* printf("%6d F [%4d] %8p\n",i,j,foo[j]); */ free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } else { k = rand() % malloc_maxsize; foo[j] = malloc(k); if (!foo[j]) printf("%6d M [%4d] %8p %d\n",i,j,foo[j],k); /* printf("%6d M [%4d] %8p %d\n",i,j,foo[j],k); */ } } for (j = 0 ; j < NBUCKETS ; j++) { if (foo[j]) { /* printf("%6d F [%4d] %8p\n",i,j+malloc_origo,foo[j]); */ free(foo[j]); foo[j] = 0; } } malloc_dump(stderr); return 0; } #endif /* MAIN */ -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 15:23:09 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA06878 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:23:09 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA06872 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:23:07 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA19431; Sat, 22 Jul 95 16:15:49 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507222215.AA19431@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: gurney_j@efn.org (John-Mark Gurney) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 95 16:15:48 MDT Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "John-Mark Gurney" at Jul 22, 95 00:58:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > This is work in process. If you look at the 2.0.5R versions of rc, and > > netstart at the top they have clear markers saying that if for some > > reason you need to modify this file we would like to know about it. > > does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, > xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in > the tradion of the other options... Yes, it does. Basically, the /etc/sysconfig is the only thing that won't get crapped on by an install update. That doesn't mean that what you think are options will match the general consensus. Be aware that in the future, changes to system procedure files, like /etc/rc, will be overwritten on update. Probably, there needs to be a global install manifest file with MD5 checksums to indicate to te upgrade program that changes have been made in files supposedly allowed to be tromped on. It also means that the manifest files are only updatable with the install process, so there's problems with /etc/rc from "current" inless the install system goes to a per file granularity on file and manifest checksup updating. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 15:34:35 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA07291 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:34:35 -0700 Received: from mail.htp.com (mail.htp.com [199.171.4.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA07285 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:34:34 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by mail.htp.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA28620 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:34:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:34:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199507222234.SAA28620@mail.htp.com> X-Sender: dennis@mail.htp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > I'm happy to pay for *actual* support which I receive, but my feel on this >> > is that I am not going to pay for a staffer full-time if the work that he or >> > she produces goes back to *everyone*. >> >> Wow, I hope I'm parsing this in-correctly, but my impression is that >> *if* you pay for support, you don't want the fixes to go to anyone else. > >If he pays a full time staffer for the code, he owns the code. And he >can do anything he wants with it, including keeping it to himself. >> > If I'm going to pay big bucks, then I want the fixes (and the rest of that >> > person's time) to myself. >> >> What do you gain by keeping the fix all to yourself? I'm not trying to >> be a software socialist here, but I fail to understand the logic of >> hoarding fixes which everyone can share. FreeBSD was created by a large >> number of volunteers who have spent *thousands* of hours of their time >> w/out compensation to fix bugs. Isn't it only *fair* to give the fix >> you've received back in return? > >In theory, you gain a competitive advantage by having fixes that your >competitor does not: "Buy PPP services from us, they *work*". > >The problem with this is that OS fixes are generally desirable, and >so if it's a desirable fix, then it's going to be done anyway. It >really depends if you are selling into a commodity market or not >as to whether this would yeild you either no competitive advantage >or a short term competitive advantage. That said, there are definite >benefits to a short term advantage in terms of acquiring marketshare >if what you sell is a commodity. > There are several different philosophies on this, and I think that they are vary depending on the situation. There needs to be a differentiation between "fix" and "improvement", and I think that all of you are missing this. As for paying a "staffer" (or consultant or doing it myself), you pay because you want the fix NOW and there is financial value for that alone. I have a product to sell and I can't wait for the things that are a priority to ME to filter through the general priority list. Usually, I want "fixes" to go to everyone, because having a good base product is important, and I also want others to share their fixes with me...so its a fairness thing. Now sometimes we make improvements, and those belong to us. It our competitive advantage....our " improvement" may not appeal to the general public, but it is an improvment for what we're doing. I generally keep these. With FreeBSD, it depends, although at this point there aren't many doing what we're doing with FreeBSD so it probably doesn't matter. BSDI won't let me distribute my improvements in source form, and I'm certainly not going to give them to BSDI. Another issue is control, and this generally applies to larger scale developments. We wrote our own PPP for our sync cards, for example, because it became impossible to support and control a product that was in one case owned by someone else (BSDI) and public in another (FreeBSD) and just plain messed up in another (Linux). Now we have one product for all three, a portable product, that we control. Development costs were about $15,000., and we're not going to share the source, not because we're mean, bad guys but if we do someone will port it over to someone elses board and we will be helping to create a competitor. As a commercial vendor its the only way to do things. Dennis From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 15:55:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id PAA07869 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:55:19 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id PAA07863 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:55:18 -0700 Received: from localhost.v-site.net (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA02266; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:55:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199507222255.PAA02266@rah.star-gate.com> X-Authentication-Warning: rah.star-gate.com: Host localhost.v-site.net didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:34:10 EDT." <199507222234.SAA28620@mail.htp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:54:59 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Another issue is control, and this generally applies to larger scale > developments. We wrote our own PPP for our sync cards, for example, because > it became impossible to support and control a product that was in one case > owned by someone else (BSDI) and public in another (FreeBSD) and just plain > messed up in another (Linux). Now we have one product for all three, a > portable product, that we control. Development costs were about $15,000., > and we're not going to share the source, not because we're mean, bad guys > but if we do someone will port it over to someone elses board and we will be > helping to create a competitor. As a commercial vendor its the only way to > do things. > Many have contributed to this effort so you may use our code and by enlarge all this effort has been given to you. Well, I will stop here not because I don't have a lot to say but in the interest of co-operation. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 16:01:13 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA08092 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:01:13 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08086 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:01:12 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA08923 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:01:09 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA26039 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:01:09 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507222301.BAA26039@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 2.0.5 system hangs To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:01:08 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507202115.XAA01694@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jul 20, 95 11:15:57 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 744 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Sounds identical to mine, using 115R. Also on an EISA machine (486/25, > 32Mb). I can solve/avoid my problem using the non-turbo mode on the > VGA card (a Orchid Prodesigner IIs). I never experienced it until I switched > to a 17" monitor that could do 1024x768. On the ol' 640x480 monitor > the turbo-mode worked fine. Maybe it is card-related. I have 486DX-33, 32 MB, EISA. It never locked up like this with either my old Fahrenheit VA/VLB or with my new Diamond Stleath 64. With 1.1.5.1 or 2.0.5. I'm now -current and my xterm are using my custom 9x16 thin font and 1024 lines of saved scroll-text. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 16:19:18 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA08721 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:19:18 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08714 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:19:16 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA08966 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:19:13 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA26083 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:19:12 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507222319.BAA26083@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: missing xdr routines ?? To: rpt@miles.sso.loral.com (Richard Toren) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:19:12 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Richard Toren" at Jul 22, 95 11:18:38 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 607 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I seem to be missing 2 xdr routines. These are xdr_float and xdr_double. > The file has prototypes for them , but I could not find them > in libc.a. I was able to find all of the rest mentioned in the man page. > I checked both 2.0 and 2.0.5 libraries. > > What is the status on these? Known problem, oversight, feature? Known problem. The routines are here in sources for libc.a but not compiled by default. Look into src/lib/libc/xdr/Makefile.inc. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 16:25:25 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA08919 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:25:25 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA08911 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:25:23 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA08991 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:25:21 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA26101 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:25:20 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507222325.BAA26101@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: MX records and sendmail To: nate@trout.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:25:20 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199507221937.NAA00267@trout.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jul 22, 95 01:37:13 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 906 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Machine A is connected to the Internet via a SLIP line, which goes down > whenever I need the phone or need the computer for non-BSD work. > Machine B is on the Internet full-time, and is the primary DNS box for > my sub-net. You can put two MX like this : machine-a IN MX 10 machine-a.network.us. IN MX 20 machine-b.network.us. if machine-a is up, then the mail will arrive there. If not, the secondary MX machine-b will then receive the mail and queue it for machine-a. When machine-a is up, you can run the queue (sendmail -q) on machine-b. Some providers use a mailertable to put the mail to machine-a in a separate queue (using a special mailer entry) and then run the queue whenever the machine-a calls. It is a little harder to set up but works too. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 16:28:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA09098 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:28:38 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA09090 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:28:36 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA09003 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:28:34 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA26114 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:28:27 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507222328.BAA26114@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: MX records and sendmail To: nc@ai.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:28:27 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Jul 22, 95 04:41:01 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 889 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > in the DNS entry, what will happen is B will freak out trying to send > back to itself on the MX try. Site B is the best site for A, it should > try A directly. What will happen is the mail will be held in B's queue > until A comes back online. Not all sendmail will react like this. This not the default behaviour for sendmail 8.x : # if we are the best MX host for a site, try it directly instead of config err #O TryNullMXList > What might work for you otherwise is: > > Site A MX 5 Site A > MX 10 Site B > > so B will try to send the mail to A if it can. Though setting Ow to True > works over here. You are not conform to the RFC if you do so (even if a lot of people does this anyway). The double MX is somewhat cleaner. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 16:34:41 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA09424 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:34:41 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA09418 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:34:38 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA10199; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:42:14 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id TAA10981; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:34:12 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:34:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: Ollivier Robert cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: MX records and sendmail In-Reply-To: <199507222328.BAA26114@blaise.ibp.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 23 Jul 1995, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > in the DNS entry, what will happen is B will freak out trying to send > > back to itself on the MX try. Site B is the best site for A, it should > > try A directly. What will happen is the mail will be held in B's queue > > until A comes back online. > > Not all sendmail will react like this. This not the default behaviour > for sendmail 8.x : > > # if we are the best MX host for a site, try it directly instead of config err > #O TryNullMXList > I was just looking at the sendmail.cf that I believe came with my installation of FreeBSD since I assumed that is what Nate would be using. You are right that not all sendmails will react that way. -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 16:37:33 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA09675 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:37:33 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA09669 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:37:32 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA09036 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:37:30 +0200 Received: from (roberto@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) id BAA26163 ; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:37:29 +0200 From: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Message-Id: <199507222337.BAA26163@blaise.ibp.fr> Subject: Re: MX records and sendmail To: nc@ai.net (Network Coordinator) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 01:37:29 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: nate@trout.sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Network Coordinator" at Jul 22, 95 07:34:12 pm X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#880 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 690 Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > # if we are the best MX host for a site, try it directly instead of config err > > #O TryNullMXList > > I was just looking at the sendmail.cf that I believe came with my > installation of FreeBSD since I assumed that is what Nate would be using. > You are right that not all sendmails will react that way. Moreover, the example I gave is for 8.7 :-) The correct example for a 8.6 sendmail such as the one we have in -current (8.6.11) is the following : # if we are the best MX host for a site, try it directly instead of config err OwFalse -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #5: Fri Jul 14 12:28:04 MET DST 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 16:44:19 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id QAA09822 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:44:19 -0700 Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA09805 ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:44:17 -0700 Received: from Jupiter.mcs.net (Jupiter.mcs.net [192.160.127.89]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA05586; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:44:15 -0500 Received: (from karl@localhost) by Jupiter.mcs.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA05789; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:44:13 -0500 From: Karl Denninger Message-Id: <199507222344.SAA05789@Jupiter.mcs.net> Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:44:13 -0500 (CDT) Cc: karl@Mcs.Net, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <21238.806373207@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jul 21, 95 05:33:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1896 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think that asking you to pay big bucks would actually be > counter-productive to us both. It would raise your expectations > unreasonably and also put those in the project in something of a bind > as they felt somewhat co-opted by the deal. I think "much more > reasonable" is exactly that. Just out of curiousity (and I'll direct > this question to any and all listening here, not just Karl), what > would you consider "reasonable" and what kind of response time would > you expect for it? > > If I can get some reasonable estimates for the size of the potential > customer base and the amount of incoming capital they'd represent, > then I think that it's entirely possible that I could turn this from > idle conjecture into reality. The Internet has also made it possible > to "hire" people to work at home, and as long as their work meets some > reasonable standard for response time and quality then I also think > that I could put such an organization together with far less overhead > than a traditional one with offices, 401K plans, etc. The resultant > savings could then be passed back to the customer and/or used to > finance longer-term goals for the project. > > Thoughts? Figures? I think this would be a very significant step > forward for FreeBSD, but it's also something that I can't without at > least a little help. > > Jordan I'd be willing to put a few hundred bucks a year (say, $500) into a support contract if it got me what I considered reasonable turn-around times. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland Voice: [+1 312 248-8649] | 7 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's *Three STAR A* Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 17:06:49 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10516 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 17:06:49 -0700 Received: from virgo.ai.net (virgo.ai.net [198.69.44.2]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10508 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 17:06:45 -0700 Received: from aries.ai.net (aries.ai.net [198.69.44.1]) by virgo.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA10228 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:14:35 -0400 Received: (from nc@localhost) by aries.ai.net (8.6.11/8.6.12) id UAA11243; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:06:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:06:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Network Coordinator To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem w/ serial ports going busy. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have several cuaa ports set up to handle dial ins. At odd times the ports will just go busy [i.e. Kermit says, "Sorry, can't open connection: /dev/cuaa1: Device Busy"] Nothing is running except getty on those ports [and when I kill getty the device doesn't get freed] and the modems are configured perfectly. Any ideas [even dirty ways] of forcing the ports un-busy? I really hate having to reboot the machine to get things working. Thanks, -Jerry. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 17:11:14 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id RAA10656 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 17:11:14 -0700 Received: from dataplex.net (SHARK.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA10650 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 17:11:12 -0700 Received: from [199.183.109.242] by dataplex.net with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:11:07 -0500 X-Sender: wacky@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:11:09 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan writes: >Well, I think it's less a matter of "INSIST" and more a matter of >"NEED". Once the organization is truly on the hook to provide a >product who's stability and reliability is a known quantity (inasmuch >as such can ever be known) then yes, it's going to have to have a lot >more control over what goes in and what doesn't. It simply won't be >able to exist otherwise since it couldn't deliver a guaranteed >response time with something that was constantly shifting under its >feet. I don't think that we disagree here. I simply used the word "insist" to point out that any reasonable programmer would require that this "need" be met. >However, as you suggest, I don't see this as much different than our >current STABLE branch scenario with all changes having to be approved >by one person (David) and a very tight degree of control being exerted >over it. Nobody has screamed about STABLE being unable to co-exist >with the current volunteer org and I'd say that it's more likely that >the volunteer org would be quite happy to have the rather constricting >and less-fun-and-more-business responsibility for STABLE go elsewhere. >The real joy has always been in hacking current where ideas and >general progress are less restricted. > >This doesn't mean that STABLE would be hidden from the world, and I'd >say that the snapshots and releases of it would still go out just as >regularly as they do now. I guess that what we really need to address is the "release" of a new system that would replace a supported "stable" version. That is the area where I see potential "turf" problems. If the support group does not have tight control on what goes in, they are burdened with the support headaches. If their selection is not sufficiently encompassing, they alienate the volunteers. IMHO, a fine line that will "make or break" the whole idea. > >This doesn't mean that STABLE would be hidden from the world, and I'd >say that the snapshots and releases of it would still go out just as >regularly as they do now. I would like to suggest that the -STABLE tree be distributed by CTM as well as other mechanisms. This mechanism is particularly appropriate when the changes are infrequent in nature. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 18:01:50 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11256 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:01:50 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11250 ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:01:48 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA01060; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:01:10 -0700 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please try this new malloc(3) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:06:25 PDT." <199507222206.PAA06101@freefall.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:01:09 -0700 Message-ID: <1058.806461269@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Have you tried linking this into libc? That should give it quite a work-out since most of our binaries are dynamically linked.. I'm about to try it myself. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 18:10:27 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11652 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:10:27 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11646 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:10:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA01111; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:08:40 -0700 To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: dennis@et.htp.com (dennis), freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 15:54:59 PDT." <199507222255.PAA02266@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:08:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1109.806461720@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Many have contributed to this effort so you may use our code and > by enlarge all this effort has been given to you. > > Well, I will stop here not because I don't have a lot to say but > in the interest of co-operation. I really can't parse this. What does this have to do with Dennis developing proprietary code? That's certainly his right, and all I believe that was being discussed. We agree that sharing is good, but we're not the FSF.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 18:11:34 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11701 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:11:34 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11695 ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:11:30 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA01132; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:10:18 -0700 To: Karl Denninger cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, karl@mcs.com, current@freebsd.org, peter@haywire.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SUP target for -STABLE, and setup for SUP info? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:44:13 CDT." <199507222344.SAA05789@Jupiter.mcs.net> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:10:18 -0700 Message-ID: <1130.806461818@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'd be willing to put a few hundred bucks a year (say, $500) into a support > contract if it got me what I considered reasonable turn-around times. I had about $600 in mind, but we won't quibble about the $100.. :-) And now the next (and obvious) question - what would you consider to be a reasonable turn-around time? :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 18:13:57 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA11891 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:13:57 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA11883 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:13:52 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA01148; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:12:57 -0700 To: rkw@dataplex.net (Richard Wackerbarth) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:11:09 CDT." Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:12:56 -0700 Message-ID: <1146.806461976@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to suggest that the -STABLE tree be distributed by CTM as well > as other mechanisms. This mechanism is particularly appropriate when the > changes are infrequent in nature. Of course. I don't see any reason that ANY branch we advertise should not be made available by both sup and CTM.. It's just a question of resources, and I expect resources would be made available as real money started coming in (and it goes without saying that we've now come to the point where separate machines for mail, sup/CTM, testing and development would be a real plus). Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 18:31:47 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id SAA12573 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:31:47 -0700 Received: from violet.berkeley.edu (violet.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.22]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA12565 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:31:46 -0700 Received: by violet.berkeley.edu (8.6.10/1.33r) id SAA22081; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:31:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:31:45 -0700 From: jkh@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard) Message-Id: <199507230131.SAA22081@violet.berkeley.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Path: agate!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!hgac.hgac.com!user From: harry@hgac.com (Harry Goldschmitt) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 13:09:31 -0700 Organization: Network Intensive Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hgac.hgac.com In article , harry@hgac.com (Harry Goldschmitt) wrote: > I've been trying to configure my FreeBSD 2.0 system to handle dial ups > at more than 9600 baud. I have 28.8 modems at both ends. I can > successfully dial into ttyd1 when it's slattach'ed at 38400. When I try to > get to a shell account, even though the modems connect at 28.8, I just get > garbage instead of the login: prompt. If I set the non-Freebsd modem to > 9600 baud, everything works fine. I think something is happening in > getty. I've issued stty commands to see what's happening to the port. > Well the problem is solved. My co-worker Paul Scott and I instrumented the 2.0.5 version of getty.c. We found the following: PPP always connected at 9600 baud. Found that in getty.c the open() function blocks until carrier detected. This happens before the port is set up using the getty args. Changed getty to use non-blocking open(), then fall through to set up the port with getty args, and then wait for carrier using ioctl() similar to slattach. See attached diff file for getty.c in FreeBSD 2.0.5. This solution works well. Now modems negotiate for highest common speed. These changes may or may not work with direct (non-modem) lines, but since we are only using modems, I don't care. ----------------------------------------------------------- Paul A. Scott (714) 991-9460 Tone Software Corporation FAX - (714) 991-1831 --------------------------------> e-mail: pas@tonesoft.com 143a144,145 > int carrier = 0; > int comstate = 0; 170c172 < while ((i = open(ttyn, O_RDWR)) == -1) { --- > while ((i = open(ttyn, O_RDWR | O_NONBLOCK)) == -1) { 236a239,249 > > syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "Waiting for carrier on %s", ttyn); > /* Now wait for carrier by polling */ > while (! carrier) { > sleep(2); > ioctl(0, TIOCMGET, &comstate); > if (comstate & TIOCM_CD) > carrier = 1; > } > syslog(LOG_NOTICE, "Carrier now present on %s", ttyn); > Thanks to all that thought about this. -- Harry Goldschmitt | harry@hgac.com 1226 Starlit Rd. | (714)494-6086 Laguna Beach, CA 92651-3035 | Fax:(714)494-3072 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 19:17:26 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA13497 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:17:26 -0700 Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA13491 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:17:22 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) id UAA00615; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:14:46 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:14:46 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199507230214.UAA00615@trout.sri.MT.net> In-Reply-To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) "Re: MX records and sendmail" (Jul 23, 1:25am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: roberto@blaise.ibp.fr (Ollivier Robert) Subject: Re: MX records and sendmail Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Machine A is connected to the Internet via a SLIP line, which goes down > > whenever I need the phone or need the computer for non-BSD work. > > Machine B is on the Internet full-time, and is the primary DNS box for > > my sub-net. > > You can put two MX like this : > > machine-a IN MX 10 machine-a.network.us. > IN MX 20 machine-b.network.us. Okay, so this should work then. machineA.domain.net preference = 5, mail exchanger = machineA.domain.net machineA.domain.net preference = 10, mail exchanger = machineB.domain.net > if machine-a is up, then the mail will arrive there. If not, the secondary MX > machine-b will then receive the mail and queue it for machine-a. When > machine-a is up, you can run the queue (sendmail -q) on machine-b. Do I need to do anything special to the sendmail.cf on machine B for it to accept email for machine A, or is the MX record enough? > Some providers use a mailertable to put the mail to machine-a in a separate > queue (using a special mailer entry) and then run the queue whenever the > machine-a calls. It is a little harder to set up but works too. Will machine-B attempt to send out the queued email at the -q## intervals, or is MX queued email handled differently? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 19:44:16 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA14440 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:44:16 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA14433 ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:44:13 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA00279; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:43:27 -0700 To: phk@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Poul's new malloc Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:43:27 -0700 Message-ID: <277.806467407@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just to save any of you the trouble - this malloc is NOT plug compatible with the BSD malloc. If you attempt to replace it you'll have segfaults galore - I just tried it.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 19:50:28 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id TAA14758 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:50:28 -0700 Received: from hk.super.net (hk.super.net [202.14.67.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA14749 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:50:25 -0700 Received: from is1.hk.super.net by hk.super.net with SMTP id AA25950 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:50:15 +0800 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:50:14 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Support Technique Worldnet Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199507210731.JAA29167@world-net.sct.fr> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Support Technique Worldnet wrote: > Hello, > I have tried to get FreeBSD by ftp://ftp.ibp.fr but I receive this message: > ' couldn't open FTP anonymous to ftp.ibp.fr '. > I don't know how to solve this problem because it's the same problem with > any server. > > PLEASE HELP > > Renaud. > > Support Worldnet > Worldnet The French Provider > Hot Line Technique : 40.37.32.67 > Service Commercial : 40.37.90.90 > Fax : 40.37.90.89 > France, Paris > > I tried ftp.ibp.fr and was able to enter without trouble. 1) ftp ftp.ibp.fr login: ftp password: support@worldnet.sct.fr and you will be in. (C'est mieux d'adresser ce gendre de question a freebsd-questions, au lieux de freebsd-hackers) jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 20:30:00 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA16656 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:30:00 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA16649 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:29:57 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa17748; 23 Jul 95 4:27 +0100 Received: from bagpuss.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa04950; 23 Jul 95 4:26 +0100 Received: (karl@localhost) by bagpuss.demon.co.uk (3.1/3.1) id EAA10975; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 04:27:00 +0100 From: Karl Strickland Message-Id: <199507230327.EAA10975@bagpuss.demon.co.uk> Subject: freefall's NetBSD mirror is broke :( To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 04:26:59 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 369 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Looks like it has been for a while - has the correct host to sup from changed now? -- ------------------------------------------+----------------------------------- Mailed using ELM on FreeBSD | Karl Strickland PGP 2.3a Public Key Available. | Internet: karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 20:31:38 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id UAA16769 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:31:38 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA16758 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 20:31:33 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA13460 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 23 Jul 1995 07:25:34 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 23 Jul 95 07:25:33 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id GAA00759; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 06:59:08 +0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Bruce Evans , harry@hgac.com References: <199507230131.SAA22081@violet.berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <199507230131.SAA22081@violet.berkeley.edu>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Sat, 22 Jul 1995 18:31:45 -0700 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 06:59:08 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 22 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1060 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article , harry@hgac.com (Harry Goldschmitt) wrote: >PPP always connected at 9600 baud. Found that in getty.c the open() function >blocks until carrier detected. This happens before the port is set up using >the getty args. Changed getty to use non-blocking open(), then fall through >to set up the port with getty args, and then wait for carrier using ioctl() >similar to slattach. See attached diff file for getty.c in FreeBSD 2.0.5. I don't think, that waiting for carrier is right way. Better way will be to open device as non-blocked, then setup all tty flags (incl. speed), then reopen device in blocked mode just before reading anything. BTW, Bruce, is it possible now to switch to blocked mode without reopening? -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 21:00:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA17426 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:00:53 -0700 Received: from hk.super.net (hk.super.net [202.14.67.4]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA17420 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:00:51 -0700 Received: from is1.hk.super.net by hk.super.net with SMTP id AA01095 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:00:27 +0800 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:00:26 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Nate Williams , Karl Denninger , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-Reply-To: <21406.806376357@time.cdrom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > [ Paying for support ] I did not follow the beginnings of this discussion, but I just bought BSDI for a nascent ISP because of the support alone. (now I see some things missing in and would like to use FBSD) We would be a candidate for paid support - 1) if it was as good as BSDI is supposed to be. 2) if the price is similar to BSDI. 3) if we could address site and configuration specific problems and ask advice and receive rapid response. Incidently, I do not see why the whole volunteer network would need to be duplicated. The community must realize that several **additional** full time support staff whose fixes are put in the tree for everyone are a **good thing** for all. Why not use all the resources available? The paying customers expect priority for their problems, nothing more. An OS with a great paid support team and a great list of volunteers and more concern for ISP operators would be unbeatable. As long as the volunteer efforts do not diminish... jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 21:27:53 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA18062 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:27:53 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA18056 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:27:51 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00478; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:26:51 -0700 To: John Beukema cc: Nate Williams , Karl Denninger , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Jul 1995 12:00:26 +0800." Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:26:51 -0700 Message-ID: <475.806473611@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 1) if it was as good as BSDI is supposed to be. Certainly, and possibly a fair bit better! :) > 2) if the price is similar to BSDI. Anyone have any numbers for them available? I've not looked into BSDI's pricing structure lately. > 3) if we could address site and configuration specific problems and ask > advice and receive rapid response. Yes, of course.. > Incidently, I do not see why the whole volunteer network would need to be > duplicated. The community must realize that several **additional** full time > support staff whose fixes are put in the tree for everyone are a **good > thing** for all. Why not use all the resources available? The paying > customers expect priority for their problems, nothing more. An OS with a > great paid support team and a great list of volunteers and more concern > for ISP operators would be unbeatable. I agree, and I never meant to imply that we'd need to duplicate the entire volunteer network with my earlier comment, simply that we'd need to provide fairly complete coverage so that the volunteer network wouldn't be a *strict necessity* to providing adequate coverage. I also think that this could be a lot more symbiotic than I've previously outlined since any extra monies accrued by FreeBSD Inc. have always been earmarked for the project in our plans anyway. Those on the project would find it in their best interest to make sure that the corporation remained profitable and the corporation would (clearly) be motivated to keep the project healthy. > As long as the volunteer efforts do not diminish... On the contrary. I think volunteer efforts could be substantially increased by having a real budget for development hardware and the occasional cash subsidy to someone who'd love to work on something but required a certain amount of money to free up the time that would otherwise be devoted to making a living. Even hackers need to eat (sometimes :) and I'd love to be able to have enough money to give out development grants again, as I sometimes did in the past when Walnut Creek was more flush with surplus cash (they've now expanded and are feeling the crunch of ramping up the business, so those days are sort of past). My main motivation here can be easily encapsulated in two points: 1. Provide support to those who need it so that FreeBSD can be more successful in those contexts where support is a prerequisite. 2. Develop a source of development funding so that we can afford to purchase development equipment and award grants to worthy parties who aren't otherwise able to make their living directly from FreeBSD. I think it's time to start thinking about real figures and real expectations of response times if I'm to get any closer to determining the feasability of all this. I'd welcome any comparative data those of you out there might have as I've never personally purchased a UN*X support contract. How much do the "big boys" charge for such things and what level of service do they generally provide? I won't even start this if I don't feel that I can meet or exceed such numbers. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 21:46:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA18355 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:46:23 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA18343 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:46:21 -0700 Received: (dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.3) id AAA00249; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:46:37 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199507230446.AAA00249@hda.com> Subject: Re: Support charges ( was Re: SUP target for -STABLE...) To: hsu@cs.hut.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Cc: nate@sneezy.sri.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199507220845.LAA02660@shadows.cs.hut.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jul 22, 95 11:45:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1026 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Heikki Suonsivu writes: > > > > I'm happy to pay for *actual* support which I receive, but my feel on this > > is that I am not going to pay for a staffer full-time if the work that he or > > she produces goes back to *everyone*. > > Wow, I hope I'm parsing this in-correctly, but my impression is that > *if* you pay for support, you don't want the fixes to go to anyone else. > > I'm only willing to pay for support if the fixes are passed to everyone. > This also includes NetBSD folks in here, I won't support anything which > takes *BSD* further apart. (This should be on non-existent -policy list...) I expect that to get support from the FreeBSD community anything that gets done should be in the spirit of the BSD style copyright. This would mean that fixes would be available to the NetBSD folk but not folded in and tested. -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 21:46:23 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id VAA18356 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:46:23 -0700 Received: from efn.efn.org (efn.org [198.68.17.1]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id VAA18344 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:46:22 -0700 Received: from nike (haus.efn.org) by efn.efn.org (4.1/smail2.5/05-07-92) id AA13830; Sat, 22 Jul 95 21:44:55 PDT Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: John-Mark Gurney X-Sender: gurney_j@nike To: Michael Smith Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD In-Reply-To: <199507220941.TAA26034@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Michael Smith wrote: > John-Mark Gurney stands accused of saying: > > > This is work in process. If you look at the 2.0.5R versions of rc, and > > > netstart at the top they have clear markers saying that if for some > > > reason you need to modify this file we would like to know about it. > > > > does that mean that I should tell you guys about my addion of the xfs, > > xdm, pcnfsd, and bootp stuff to /etc/rc and /etc/sysconfig? I added them in > > the tradion of the other options... > > Well yes, for some of them. Xdm is probably better started out of /etc/ttys, > and pcnfsd is already handled by inetd. reason I use xdm in /etc/rc and not /etc/ttys is that I want to get a login window for my dos machines running Xappeal (a Xserver)... pcnfsd may be started by inetd but I had troubles in that my programs couldn't find it... so I added pcnfsd to run all the time and it works nicely now... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 22:16:40 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA19677 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 22:16:40 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA19671 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 22:16:39 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA24825; Sat, 22 Jul 95 23:09:31 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507230509.AA24825@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: What people are doing with FBSD To: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 95 23:09:30 MDT Cc: gurney_j@efn.org, rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9507222215.AA19431@cs.weber.edu> from "Terry Lambert" at Jul 22, 95 04:15:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Basically, the /etc/sysconfig is the only thing that won't get crapped on > by an install update. On consideration, there's a corollary to this: The /etc/sysconfig file should be machine genereated instead of on the install media as a part of the install set. That way the machine generation can take an existing /etc/sysconfig into account. Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 22:37:21 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id WAA20521 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 22:37:21 -0700 Received: from cs.weber.edu (cs.weber.edu [137.190.16.16]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA20513 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 22:37:20 -0700 Received: by cs.weber.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA24940; Sat, 22 Jul 95 23:30:05 MDT From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) Message-Id: <9507230530.AA24940@cs.weber.edu> Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud To: ache@astral.msk.su (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 95 23:30:05 MDT Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu, bde@zeta.org.au, harry@hgac.com In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka" at Jul 23, 95 06:59:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL52] Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >PPP always connected at 9600 baud. Found that in getty.c the open() function > >blocks until carrier detected. This happens before the port is set up using > >the getty args. Changed getty to use non-blocking open(), then fall through > >to set up the port with getty args, and then wait for carrier using ioctl() > >similar to slattach. See attached diff file for getty.c in FreeBSD 2.0.5. > > I don't think, that waiting for carrier is right way. > Better way will be to open device as non-blocked, > then setup all tty flags (incl. speed), then reopen device > in blocked mode just before reading anything. > > BTW, Bruce, is it possible now to switch to blocked > mode without reopening? No, it's not possible, since we are talking about whether the open flag is set or not for subsequent opens. The reason the ioctl() loses is taht it will prevent bidirection use of the port, with the getty open always having succeeded. I don't think I quite understand why the previous behaviour was a problem in the first place -- perhas the original poster could explain the rationale for his changes a bit better? Terry Lambert terry@cs.weber.edu --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Jul 22 23:46:42 1995 Return-Path: hackers-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) id XAA22171 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 23:46:42 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA22164 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 23:46:37 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA08393 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:45:04 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sun, 23 Jul 95 10:45:04 +0400 Received: (from ache@localhost) by astral.msk.su (8.6.8/8.6.6) id KAA00296; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:39:07 +0400 To: Terry Lambert Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@freebsd.org, harry@hgac.com, jkh@violet.berkeley.edu References: <9507230530.AA24940@cs.weber.edu> In-Reply-To: <9507230530.AA24940@cs.weber.edu>; from Terry Lambert at Sat, 22 Jul 95 23:30:05 MDT Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 10:39:06 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= aka "Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage" X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: dial up at > 9600 baud Lines: 42 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1878 Sender: hackers-owner@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <9507230530.AA24940@cs.weber.edu> Terry Lambert writes: >> >PPP always connected at 9600 baud. Found that in getty.c the open() function >> >blocks until carrier detected. This happens before the port is set up using >> >the getty args. Changed getty to use non-blocking open(), then fall through >> >to set up the port with getty args, and then wait for carrier using ioctl() >> >similar to slattach. See attached diff file for getty.c in FreeBSD 2.0.5. >> >> I don't think, that waiting for carrier is right way. >> Better way will be to open device as non-blocked, >> then setup all tty flags (incl. speed), then reopen device >> in blocked mode just before reading anything. >> >> BTW, Bruce, is it possible now to switch to blocked >> mode without reopening? >No, it's not possible, since we are talking about whether the open flag >is set or not for subsequent opens. >The reason the ioctl() loses is taht it will prevent bidirection use >of the port, with the getty open always having succeeded. >I don't think I quite understand why the previous behaviour was a >problem in the first place -- perhas the original poster could explain >the rationale for his changes a bit better? The problem: initial port speed 9600, getty speed 38400 f.e., port opened on carrier at 9600, modem detects it and set connection to 9600 too, _then_ getty change port speed to 38400 confusing modem completely. I understand that problem solves by locking port on 38400 initially, but it isn't nice solution, getty must able to open port at correct speed setted in its flags. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - FidoNet: 2:5020/230.3 : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849