From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 19 06:46:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA16181 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 06:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fore.com (mailhub.fore.com [192.88.243.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA16174; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 06:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dolphin.fore.com ([192.88.243.27]) by fore.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA11491; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lamprey.fore.com (lamprey.fore.com [169.144.1.113]) by dolphin.fore.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01934; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199608191344.JAA01934@dolphin.fore.com> To: hardware@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org, xfree86@xfree86.org Subject: Number Nine FX Motion 771 w/ 4mb and Viewsonic 21PS and FBSD 2.1.0 Reply-to: rv@fore.com X-Mailer: MH v6.8.3 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:44:53 -0400 From: rajesh vaidheeswarran Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk First of all, Apologies for having mass mailed to xfree86@xfree86.org (I couldn't find any other address). Folks, I would appreciate any help on the following: I have a Number Nine FX Motion 771 card with 4MB RAM (S3 968 chipset, and IBM 37RGB 524 CF22A RAMDAC), and a ViewSonic 21PS Monitor on a Pentium 166 MHz running FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE. The mouse is Logitech 3-button Bus mouse (this also comes with an additional serial port attachment). I don't know if it is relevant to include this, but here goes: The motherboard is the Iwill P54TSW2 (Mine seems to be ok, but the reports I have from a couple of friends on this MB is not too impressive.... broken serial ports, and IDE controllers and absolutely no support at all from Iwill - Thats in case you were looking for a MB, and had this in mind also). I configured everything in xf86config and have included the file too for reference here. The XF86_SVGA comes up with a 300x320 ?? resolution, but none of the accel servers come up. I have included the errors reported when startx is run (X is ln -s'd to the accel server for the chipset, XF86_S3). If anyone has faced this problem before, or knows how to fix this, I would appreciate a response to this. Thanks in advance. rv bash# uname -a FreeBSD agni.fore.com 2.1.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Fri Aug 16 23:28:34 1996 bash@agni.fore.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC_SB_PS2 i386 bash# startx XFree86 Version 3.1.2 / X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6001) Operating System: FreeBSD 2.0.5 Configured drivers: S3: accelerated server for S3 graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 0) mmio_928, s3_generic Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0) (using VT number 7) XF86Config: /home/bash/XF86Config (**) stands for supplied, (--) stands for probed/default values (**) Mouse: type: PS/2, device: /dev/psm0, baudrate: 1200 (**) S3: Graphics device ID: "Number Nine FX Motion 771" (**) S3: Monitor ID: "ViewSonic 21PS" (**) FontPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" (**) S3: Unknown RAMDAC type "ibm_rgb52x" *** A configured device found, but display modes could not be resolved.*** Fatal server error: no screens found X connection to :0.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown). bash# cat /etc/XF86Config # File generated by xf86config. # # Copyright (c) 1994 by The XFree86 Project, Inc. # # Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a # copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), # to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation # the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, # and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the # Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: # # The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in # all copies or substantial portions of the Software. # # THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR # IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, # FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL # THE XFREE86 PROJECT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, # WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF # OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE # SOFTWARE. # # Except as contained in this notice, the name of the XFree86 Project shall # not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other # dealings in this Software without prior written authorization from the # XFree86 Project. # # ********************************************************************** # Refer to the XF86Config(4/5) man page for details about the format of # this file. # ********************************************************************** # ********************************************************************** # Files section. This allows default font and rgb paths to be set # ********************************************************************** Section "Files" # The location of the RGB database. Note, this is the name of the # file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db"). There is normally # no need to change the default. RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (which are concatenated together), # as well as specifying multiple comma-separated entries in one FontPath # command (or a combination of both methods) # # If you don't have a floating point coprocessor and emacs, Mosaic or other # programs take long to start up, try moving the Type1 and Speedo directory # to the end of this list (or comment them out). # FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Server flags section. # ********************************************************************** Section "ServerFlags" # Uncomment this to cause a core dump at the spot where a signal is # received. This may leave the console in an unusable state, but may # provide a better stack trace in the core dump to aid in debugging # NoTrapSignals # Uncomment this to disable the server abort sequence # This allows clients to receive this key event. # DontZap # Uncomment this to disable the / mode switching # sequences. This allows clients to receive these key events. # DontZoom EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Input devices # ********************************************************************** # ********************************************************************** # Keyboard section # ********************************************************************** Section "Keyboard" Protocol "Standard" # when using XQUEUE, comment out the above line, and uncomment the # following line # Protocol "Xqueue" AutoRepeat 500 5 # Let the server do the NumLock processing. This should only be required # when using pre-R6 clients # ServerNumLock # Specifiy which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1)) # Xleds 1 2 3 # To set the LeftAlt to Meta, RightAlt key to ModeShift, # RightCtl key to Compose, and ScrollLock key to ModeLock: LeftAlt Meta RightAlt ModeShift # RightCtl Compose # ScrollLock ModeLock EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Pointer section # ********************************************************************** Section "Pointer" # ***** I had tried the Logitech Mouseman too here. ***** Protocol "PS/2" Device "/dev/psm0" # When using XQUEUE, comment out the above two lines, and uncomment # the following line. # Protocol "Xqueue" # Baudrate and SampleRate are only for some Logitech mice # BaudRate 9600 # SampleRate 150 # Emulate3Buttons is an option for 2-button Microsoft mice # Emulate3Timeout is the timeout in milliseconds (default is 50ms) # Emulate3Buttons # Emulate3Timeout 50 # ChordMiddle is an option for some 3-button Logitech mice # ChordMiddle EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Monitor section # ********************************************************************** # Any number of monitor sections may be present Section "Monitor" Identifier "ViewSonic 21PS" VendorName "ViewSonic" ModelName "21PS" # HorizSync is in kHz unless units are specified. # HorizSync may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a # comma separated list of ranges of values. # NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S # USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS. HorizSync 30-85 # HorizSync 30-64 # multisync # HorizSync 31.5, 35.2 # multiple fixed sync frequencies # HorizSync 15-25, 30-50 # multiple ranges of sync frequencies # VertRefresh is in Hz unless units are specified. # VertRefresh may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a # comma separated list of ranges of values. # NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY. REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S # USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS. VertRefresh 50-160 # Modes can be specified in two formats. A compact one-line format, or # a multi-line format. # These two are equivalent # ModeLine "1024x768i" 45 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 776 784 817 Interlace # Mode "1024x768i" # DotClock 45 # HTimings 1024 1048 1208 1264 # VTimings 768 776 784 817 # Flags "Interlace" # EndMode # This is a set of standard mode timings. Modes that are out of monitor spec # are automatically deleted by the server (provided the HorizSync and # VertRefresh lines are correct), so there's no immediate need to # delete mode timings (unless particular mode timings don't work on your # monitor). With these modes, the best standard mode that your monitor # and video card can support for a given resolution is automatically # used. # 640x400 @ 70 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync Modeline "640x400" 25.175 640 664 760 800 400 409 411 450 # 640x480 @ 60 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync Modeline "640x480" 25.175 640 664 760 800 480 491 493 525 # 800x600 @ 56 Hz, 35.15 kHz hsync ModeLine "800x600" 36 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 # 1024x768 @ 87 Hz interlaced, 35.5 kHz hsync Modeline "1024x768" 44.9 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 776 784 817 Interlace # 640x480 @ 72 Hz, 36.5 kHz hsync Modeline "640x480" 31.5 640 680 720 864 480 488 491 521 # 800x600 @ 60 Hz, 37.8 kHz hsync Modeline "800x600" 40 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +hsync +vsync # 800x600 @ 72 Hz, 48.0 kHz hsync Modeline "800x600" 50 800 856 976 1040 600 637 643 666 +hsync +vsync # 1024x768 @ 60 Hz, 48.4 kHz hsync Modeline "1024x768" 65 1024 1032 1176 1344 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync # 1024x768 @ 70 Hz, 56.5 kHz hsync Modeline "1024x768" 75 1024 1048 1184 1328 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync # 1280x1024 @ 87 Hz interlaced, 51 kHz hsync Modeline "1280x1024" 80 1280 1296 1512 1568 1024 1025 1037 1165 Interlace # 1024x768 @ 76 Hz, 62.5 kHz hsync Modeline "1024x768" 85 1024 1032 1152 1360 768 784 787 823 # 1280x1024 @ 61 Hz, 64.2 kHz hsync Modeline "1280x1024" 110 1280 1328 1512 1712 1024 1025 1028 1054 # 1280x1024 @ 74 Hz, 78.85 kHz hsync Modeline "1280x1024" 135 1280 1312 1456 1712 1024 1027 1030 1064 # 1280x1024 @ 76 Hz, 81.13 kHz hsync Modeline "1280x1024" 135 1280 1312 1416 1664 1024 1027 1030 1064 # Low-res Doublescan modes # If your chipset does not support doublescan, you get a 'squashed' # resolution like 320x400. # 320x200 @ 70 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync, 8:5 aspect ratio Modeline "320x200" 12.588 320 336 384 400 200 204 205 225 Doublescan # 320x240 @ 60 Hz, 31.5 kHz hsync, 4:3 aspect ratio Modeline "320x240" 12.588 320 336 384 400 240 245 246 262 Doublescan # 320x240 @ 72 Hz, 36.5 kHz hsync Modeline "320x240" 15.750 320 336 384 400 240 244 246 262 Doublescan # 400x300 @ 56 Hz, 35.2 kHz hsync, 4:3 aspect ratio ModeLine "400x300" 18 400 416 448 512 300 301 602 312 Doublescan # 400x300 @ 60 Hz, 37.8 kHz hsync Modeline "400x300" 20 400 416 480 528 300 301 303 314 Doublescan # 400x300 @ 72 Hz, 48.0 kHz hsync Modeline "400x300" 25 400 424 488 520 300 319 322 333 Doublescan # 480x300 @ 56 Hz, 35.2 kHz hsync, 8:5 aspect ratio ModeLine "480x300" 21.656 480 496 536 616 300 301 302 312 Doublescan # 480x300 @ 60 Hz, 37.8 kHz hsync Modeline "480x300" 23.890 480 496 576 632 300 301 303 314 Doublescan # 480x300 @ 63 Hz, 39.6 kHz hsync Modeline "480x300" 25 480 496 576 632 300 301 303 314 Doublescan # 480x300 @ 72 Hz, 48.0 kHz hsync Modeline "480x300" 29.952 480 504 584 624 300 319 322 333 Doublescan EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Graphics device section # ********************************************************************** # Any number of graphics device sections may be present # Standard VGA Device: Section "Device" Identifier "Generic VGA" VendorName "Unknown" BoardName "Unknown" Chipset "generic" # VideoRam 256 # Clocks 25.2 28.3 EndSection # Sample Device for accelerated server: # Section "Device" # Identifier "Actix GE32+ 2MB" # VendorName "Actix" # BoardName "GE32+" # Ramdac "ATT20C490" # Dacspeed 110 # Option "dac_8_bit" # Clocks 25.0 28.0 40.0 0.0 50.0 77.0 36.0 45.0 # Clocks 130.0 120.0 80.0 31.0 110.0 65.0 75.0 94.0 # EndSection # Device configured by xf86config: Section "Device" Identifier "Number Nine FX Motion 771" VendorName "Number Nine" BoardName "FX Motion 771" #VideoRam 4096 #s3RefClk 16 # Use Option "nolinear" if the server doesn't start up correctly # (this avoids the linear framebuffer probe). If that fails try # option "nomemaccess". # # Refer to /usr/X11R6/lib/doc/README.S3, and the XF86_S3 man page. Ramdac "ibm_rgb52x" Clockchip "ibm_rgb524" EndSection # ********************************************************************** # Screen sections # ********************************************************************** # The Colour SVGA server Section "Screen" Driver "svga" Device "Generic VGA" #Device "Number Nine FX Motion 771" Monitor "ViewSonic 21PS" Subsection "Display" Depth 8 #Modes "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024" ViewPort 0 0 Virtual 320 200 #Virtual 1600 1280 EndSubsection EndSection # The 16-color VGA server Section "Screen" Driver "vga16" Device "Generic VGA" Monitor "ViewSonic 21PS" Subsection "Display" Modes "640x480" "800x600" ViewPort 0 0 Virtual 800 600 EndSubsection EndSection # The Mono server Section "Screen" Driver "vga2" Device "Generic VGA" Monitor "ViewSonic 21PS" Subsection "Display" Modes "640x480" "800x600" ViewPort 0 0 Virtual 800 600 EndSubsection EndSection # The accelerated servers (S3, Mach32, Mach8, 8514, P9000, AGX, W32, Mach64) Section "Screen" Driver "accel" Device "Number Nine FX Motion 771" Monitor "ViewSonic 21PS" Subsection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024" ViewPort 0 0 Virtual 1600 1280 EndSubsection Subsection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024" ViewPort 0 0 Virtual 1280 1024 EndSubsection Subsection "Display" Depth 32 Modes "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" ViewPort 0 0 Virtual 1024 768 EndSubsection EndSection From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 19 18:55:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04629 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smokey.hekla.exoterica.com (smokey.omnimark.com [206.116.41.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04624 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jupiter.hekla.exoterica.com (jupiter.hekla.exoterica.com [128.36.27.1]) by smokey with ESMTP (DuhMail/2.0) id VAA03964; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:24:21 -0400 Received: from clavicle.hekla.exoterica.com. (clavicle [128.36.27.125]) by jupiter.hekla.exoterica.com. (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA12964 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:50:32 -0400 Received: (nw@localhost) by clavicle.hekla.exoterica.com. (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA01196; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:56:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:56:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199608200156.VAA01196@clavicle.hekla.exoterica.com.> From: Norbert Winklareth To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: JAZ or ZIP Drive Support Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I am in the process of putting together a system to run FreeBSD. Several people have recommended that I purchase a JAZ or ZIP drive to do backups. I am purchasing a SCSI based system, with 4.2 GBytes of Disk space. 1) Does FreeBSD support either of both of these drives? 2) Is there a recommendation for against either one? 3) Should I get a DAT drive instead? Thanks for any and all help. norbert winklareth From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 19 19:50:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA07840 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07817 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 19:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA04290; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:02:50 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608200232.MAA04290@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: JAZ or ZIP Drive Support To: n.winklareth@omnimark.com (Norbert Winklareth) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:02:49 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608200156.VAA01196@clavicle.hekla.exoterica.com.> from "Norbert Winklareth" at Aug 19, 96 09:56:23 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Norbert Winklareth stands accused of saying: > > I am in the process of putting together a system to run FreeBSD. Several > people have recommended that I purchase a JAZ or ZIP drive to do backups. > I am purchasing a SCSI based system, with 4.2 GBytes of Disk space. > > 1) Does FreeBSD support either of both of these drives? Yes, both. > 2) Is there a recommendation for against either one? Cost vs. capacity. The Jaz is expensive but bigger & faster. > 3) Should I get a DAT drive instead? Yes. Neither of the above are good candidates for backup devices; they're too small and not cost effective. A DAT unit will cost about as much as a Jaz drive, but media are much more cost effective (~$10 for a 2G tape vs. ~$125 for a 1G cartridge). > norbert winklareth -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Aug 19 22:09:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA21072 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 22:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21065 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 22:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA06491; Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:04:59 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608200404.VAA06491@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: JAZ or ZIP Drive Support To: n.winklareth@omnimark.com (Norbert Winklareth) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608200156.VAA01196@clavicle.hekla.exoterica.com.> from Norbert Winklareth at "Aug 19, 96 09:56:23 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hello, > > I am in the process of putting together a system to run FreeBSD. Several > people have recommended that I purchase a JAZ or ZIP drive to do backups. > I am purchasing a SCSI based system, with 4.2 GBytes of Disk space. > > 1) Does FreeBSD support either of both of these drives? Both are reported to work. > 2) Is there a recommendation for against either one? Not that I have seen. > 3) Should I get a DAT drive instead? Yes. Backing up a 4.2 GByte disk to a 1G Jaz drive using $100/GB media is going to get expensive very quickly if you use cyclic backups and want to retain more than a few weeks of backup. A 4G native/8G compressed drive can hold all your data on 1 tape costing < $25.00. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 08:52:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA07616 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 08:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [206.81.134.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07611 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 08:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA06025; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 09:51:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: 3COM network cards.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've seen some heat in regard to 3Com cards. Is this in regard to any specific card, or all 3Com cards in general? I was under the impression that 3Com cards were rather decent cards.. I'm looking to find a good card to use on a router with a CSU/DSU unit (freeBSD router), any suggestions? Is the 3Com 590-COMBO? TPO? Thanks.. -Brandon Gillespie From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 10:43:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA19869 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goffer.research.megasoft.com (gw.research.megasoft.com [206.230.35.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19861 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goffette.research.megasoft.com (goffette.research.megasoft.com [192.168.1.2]) by goffer.research.megasoft.com (8.7.5/8.7.3-cmcurtin) with SMTP id NAA20814; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by goffette.research.megasoft.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA01557; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:38:25 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:38:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199608201738.NAA01557@goffette.research.megasoft.com> From: C Matthew Curtin To: Brandon Gillespie Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3COM network cards.. In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com X-Attribution: mattC Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "BG" == Brandon Gillespie writes: BG> I'm looking to find a good card to use on a router with a CSU/DSU BG> unit (freeBSD router), any suggestions? Is the 3Com 590-COMBO? BG> TPO? I just installed a FreeBSD-based firewall bastion host using 3Com cards. In the first setup, I had a 3c590 and 3c595. The 3c590 interface kept having problems and filled up buffers after about 1700 or so bytes attempted to be sent through it. I'd need to bring the interface down and back up to clear the queue and restore buffer space. (Didn't have any software misconfigurations like messed up MTUs or anything...I did check :-) The 3c595 never had this problem. We swapped the 595 and 590, and the problem continued on the 590's interface. Got rid of the 590 and used a second 595, and it's been rock solid since. Very strange. I know very little about PC hardware (used to Sun, IBM RS/6000, and SGI hardware), so I'm not sure exactly what might have been going on below the OS... -- C Matthew Curtin MEGASOFT, LLC Director, Security Architecture I speak only for myself. Don't whine to anyone but me about anything I say. Hacker Security Firewall Crypto PGP Privacy Unix Perl Java Internet Intranet cmcurtin@research.megasoft.com http://research.megasoft.com/people/cmcurtin/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 10:51:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA20790 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20784 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA22620; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:50:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199608201750.KAA22620@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: 3COM network cards.. To: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com (Brandon Gillespie) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 10:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Brandon Gillespie at "Aug 20, 96 09:51:20 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've seen some heat in regard to 3Com cards. Is this in regard to any > specific card, or all 3Com cards in general? I was under the impression > that 3Com cards were rather decent cards.. > > I'm looking to find a good card to use on a router with a CSU/DSU unit > (freeBSD router), any suggestions? Is the 3Com 590-COMBO? TPO? > > Thanks.. > > -Brandon Gillespie > I would go with a DEC based 21x4x card. Znyx and Cogent/Adaptec do 2 and 4 port cards. Starting with standard 10mbit/s up to 10/100MB/sec. Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 Lamb Art Internet Services || http://www.Lamb.net/ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 13:29:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA00782 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uctmail.uct.ac.za (uctmail.uct.ac.za [137.158.128.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00771 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uctmail.uct.ac.za via sendmail with stdio id for hardware@freebsd.org; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:28:36 +0200 (SAT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2 built 1996-Jul-22) Message-Id: Received: by uctmail.uct.ac.za (Mort 2.17) id 6242 from ELECENG; Tue Aug 20 22:28:36 1996 From: "Grant Carter" Organization: University of Cape Town To: hardware@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:28:32 UTC-2 Subject: Pine Motherboards Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello Could anyone please tell me if there is any reason why BSD should give hassles with a PINE motherboard (PT-7502). It has the Intel i430VX chipset. This will be used in conjunction with 2x16Mb TIN plated EDO RAM (60ns) and an ExpertColor S3 ViRGE (325). Many thanks in advance Grant --- Grant Carter gcarter@eleceng.uct.ac.za Electrical Engineering Student University of Cape Town "Coffee not found - operator halted!" From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 13:55:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03450 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (root@gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03438 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by gallup.cia-g.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA15647; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:55:35 -0600 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:55:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Stephen Fisher To: Brandon Gillespie cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3COM network cards.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Brandon Gillespie wrote: > I've seen some heat in regard to 3Com cards. Is this in regard to any > specific card, or all 3Com cards in general? I was under the impression > that 3Com cards were rather decent cards.. Good cards indeed. > I'm looking to find a good card to use on a router with a CSU/DSU unit > (freeBSD router), any suggestions? Is the 3Com 590-COMBO? TPO? I heard lots of horror storries about the 590, and a few about the 509 (mainly just that the code was still "buggy" at least as of 2.1R).. I decided to drop a 509 in my last machine - it works great - no problems what so ever _EXCEPT_ I had a problem (had this on other machines with 2.1R too - haven't tried with 2.1.5R) where it would find the card on every other reboot (I don't think it mattered how you rebooted even).. I added a line of code to the driver and it now finds it every time. Though it's not a heavily loaded machine. - Steve - Systems Manager - Community Internet Access - http://www.cia-g.com From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 14:04:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04115 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saguaro.flyingfox.com (saguaro.flyingfox.com [204.188.109.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04109 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jas@localhost) by saguaro.flyingfox.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id OAA07838 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:03:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:03:38 -0700 From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199608202103.OAA07838@saguaro.flyingfox.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm building up a couple of systems around the Asus P55T2P4 mainboard and a P133 CPU. I had planned on adding the Asus SC200 SCSI card, which is built around the NCR53C810; but the local computer shop recommended against that, saying that the SC200 must use IRQ0, and that I will therefore have trouble if I try to run non-Microsoft operating systems. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the PCI bus architecture even to know if this is gibberish or not. (Hey, at least they know there *are* non-Microsoft OS's!) I've also seen references to the NCR SCSI BIOS, but I'm unclear on whether this is an extra-cost option or not. Can anyone help shed some light here? Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 14:29:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA05785 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05773 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:29:42 -0700 (PDT) From: BRETT_GLASS@ccgate.infoworld.com Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0usydC-000x2sC; Tue, 20 Aug 96 14:46 PDT Received: from ccMail by ccgate.infoworld.com (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA840576394; Tue, 20 Aug 96 15:22:33 PST Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 15:22:33 PST Message-Id: <9607208405.AA840576394@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: 3COM network cards.. Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I do not know if both the modem and the NIC on the combo are usable at the same time. They have to share an IRQ, and I do not know if FreeBSD is set up to allow this (it should be!). --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 14:41:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA06420 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shelby.visix.com (shelby-102.visix.com [149.62.102.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA06415 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neptune.visix.com.visix.com (neptune.visix.com [149.62.106.32]) by shelby.visix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA13662 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:40:28 -0400 Received: by neptune.visix.com.visix.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16804; Tue, 20 Aug 96 17:39:28 EDT Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 17:39:28 EDT From: wes@visix.com (Wes Doonan) Message-Id: <9608202139.AA16804@neptune.visix.com.visix.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: ATAPI nemesis Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From perusing the mail archives I gather that 2.1.0 and earlier versions had difficulty with ATAPI cdrom drives -- are they still to be avoided with the 2.1.5 release? I don't see the wcd0 device being probed during boot, suggests the driver was removed from the kernel. Also, the special atapi.flp boot image is gone from the 2.1.5 distribution. FAQ and hardware.txt don't say too much about ATAPI; anyone successful bringing up an ATAPI cdrom under version 2.1.5 and like to share some hints? Thanks much, Wes Doonan Visix Software Inc. From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 15:30:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA08629 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saguaro.flyingfox.com (saguaro.flyingfox.com [204.188.109.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08621 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jas@localhost) by saguaro.flyingfox.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) id PAA08050; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:29:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:29:17 -0700 From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199608202229.PAA08050@saguaro.flyingfox.com> To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com Subject: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to all who responded to my question about the Asus SC200. Thanks, especially, to Rod, for a detailed explanation that clarifies (for me) how PCI interrupt handling works. Rod, I will contact you off-line in the next month or two to see if we can purchase future systems from you. A follow-up question, that I hope is of general interest: how does the SC200 stack up against the Adaptec 2940U? The SC200 is quite a bit cheaper; at what point does it make sense to spring for a higher-end SCSI host adapter (assuming the 2940U is higher end)? Some systems I build are clear candidates for the SC200; on others (multiple disks + a DAT drive, e.g.), I'm not so sure. Thoughts, anyone? Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 16:31:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA12384 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12116 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com) by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA07147 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:26:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA03267; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608202132.OAA03267@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Jim Shankland Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:03:38 PDT." <199608202103.OAA07838@saguaro.flyingfox.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:32:10 -0700 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm building up a couple of systems around the Asus P55T2P4 >mainboard and a P133 CPU. I had planned on adding the Asus >SC200 SCSI card, which is built around the NCR53C810; but the >local computer shop recommended against that, saying that the >SC200 must use IRQ0, and that I will therefore have trouble if I >try to run non-Microsoft operating systems. I'm afraid I don't >know enough about the PCI bus architecture even to know if this >is gibberish or not. (Hey, at least they know there *are* >non-Microsoft OS's!) I've also seen references to the NCR SCSI >BIOS, but I'm unclear on whether this is an extra-cost option >or not. > >Can anyone help shed some light here? It's gibberish. irq0 is the clock/timer interrupt and has nothing at all to do with the NCR controller. Using it for the NCR would be a configuration error. The second part of your question...yes, your motherboard must have the "NCR SCSI BIOS" in order for you to boot from the NCR. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 16:42:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA13025 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13017 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA09520 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:41:16 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA08500; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:03:31 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608202303.QAA08500@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 To: jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608202229.PAA08050@saguaro.flyingfox.com> from Jim Shankland at "Aug 20, 96 03:29:17 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... > > A follow-up question, that I hope is of general interest: how does > the SC200 stack up against the Adaptec 2940U? The SC200 is quite a > bit cheaper; at what point does it make sense to spring for a > higher-end SCSI host adapter (assuming the 2940U is higher end)? > Some systems I build are clear candidates for the SC200; on others > (multiple disks + a DAT drive, e.g.), I'm not so sure. > > Thoughts, anyone? The line between when to switch from a 53C810 (I prefer to refer to it by that number, as there are others besides the SC-200) to an AHA2940U is real wide, and kinda grey, but here are some of the things I use in helping clients decide this issue. a) How many disk drives are you going to access at the same time (cocurrency). If this is >= 3 I recommend using the 2940, otherwise the SC-200 is fine. b) Is this a SERVER class machine, ie, does it have more than one person accessing and doing work on it at the same time. If so ignore rule a) and use a 2940 as the machine will probably grow to have more disk drives. c) What other devices are you running. CDROM drives don't effect the descission much, but a tower of them points you toward the 2940. DAT drives are a toss up, though I have seen some funnies from the NCR code lately on a clients machine when doing dumps to DAT and am currently in the process of swapping out thier controller and duplicating the problem here for diagnosis. It boils down to the NCR is great for desktop/side machines with a few disk drives. The aha2940 is great for server class machines, or very large single user systems. I do have to say that I have an order of magnitude more trust in the aha2940 driver, and on my ability to get a bug fixed when I need it (Hi Justin! Thanks for the _GREAT_ support!!) by sending the broken hardware to Justin and giving him some time to work on it. > Jim Shankland > Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 16:42:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA13065 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13058 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA09531 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:41:22 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA07901; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:43:08 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608202143.OAA07901@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608202103.OAA07838@saguaro.flyingfox.com> from Jim Shankland at "Aug 20, 96 02:03:38 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm building up a couple of systems around the Asus P55T2P4 > mainboard and a P133 CPU. I had planned on adding the Asus > SC200 SCSI card, which is built around the NCR53C810; but the > local computer shop recommended against that, > saying that the SC200 must use IRQ0, Wrong, by default it uses INT A, the motherboard decided where INT A goes. The SC-200 could care less. The SC-200 can also be set by jumper to use INT-B, C or D, but the P55T2P4 requires all cards to use INT A. The interrupt routing logic in the T2 chip set can route INT A of each slot independently to a seperate IRQ. IRQ0 above must be a typo, that is the clock interrupt and is not even avalible to the PCI bus interrupt routing logic. > and that I will therefore have trouble if I > try to run non-Microsoft operating systems. I'm afraid I don't > know enough about the PCI bus architecture even to know if this > is gibberish or not. (Hey, at least they know there *are* > non-Microsoft OS's!) I've also seen references to the NCR SCSI > BIOS, but I'm unclear on whether this is an extra-cost option > or not. > > Can anyone help shed some light here? Your local computer shop doesn't have a clue, the ASUS SC-200 will use any of the avaliable interrupts for PCI slots, the Award bios on the P55T2P4 will assign each card it's own IRQ. It will run just fine with FreeBSD (and just about anything else out there). I have qualified this motherboard running 4 SC-200's, it is part of the my qualification testing. (Also 4 2940's, and then a mixture of DEC DC21x4x boards and scsi controllers, etc, etc). In no case was a shared IRQ setup by the BIOS when left set to it's defaults. Only the first NCR controller will be reported by the BIOS, the others will be found and initialized by FreeBSD. This techical support provided for free by: -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 16:42:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA13088 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13079 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA09563 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:41:30 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA07775; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:52:27 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608202052.NAA07775@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 3COM network cards.. To: ulf@lamb.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608201750.KAA22620@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> from Ulf Zimmermann at "Aug 20, 96 10:50:13 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I've seen some heat in regard to 3Com cards. Is this in regard to any > > specific card, or all 3Com cards in general? I was under the impression > > that 3Com cards were rather decent cards.. 3Com cards seem to be decent cards if your running Netware or another vendor supported software. It seems that the FreeBSD (or for that matter the *BSD) drivers for the 3Com products are continuously going through changes to fix something that is broken with respect to some card. In other words, 3Com cards are poorly supported in the free software world. I avoid their products for that reason. > > > > I'm looking to find a good card to use on a router with a CSU/DSU unit > > (freeBSD router), any suggestions? Is the 3Com 590-COMBO? TPO? > > > > Thanks.. > > > > -Brandon Gillespie > > > > I would go with a DEC based 21x4x card. Znyx and Cogent/Adaptec do 2 and 4 > port cards. Starting with standard 10mbit/s up to 10/100MB/sec. I have qualified the following products for use in systems I build: XX. TMG SMC9332DST SMC 10/100MB DEC 21140 ethernet (OEM) $ 145.00 XX. TMG SMC8432BT SMC EtherPower PCI, RJ45/BNC, DEC 21041 $ 159.00 [Yes, thats right, SMC has their pricing ass backwards :-(] XX. TMG SMC8432BTA SMC EtherPower PCI, RJ45/BNC/AUI, DEC 21041 (Bulk) $ 158.00 XX. TMG KIN17648 Kingston KNE40BT PCI Ethernet Card, 10BT/10B2 DC21041 $ 78.00 XX. TMG EFA18215 EFA170 PCI Ethernet Card, 10BT/10B2, DC21040 $ 76.00 Kingston also makes a 100Mb/s card that is coming in for eval over the next week or two and I expect to add that to the line up. I have dropped all Compex products and am not using anything they make due to them doing strange things to the DEC design that makes their cards inoperable with the FreeBSD drivers, and then not being able to work with Matt Thomas in resolving these problems. Be wary of the current Compex boards, they won't work well, or even at all, in some cases, with FreeBSD's driver. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 16:54:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA14465 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14451 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA13462 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id NAA07436; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:52:25 -1000 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:52:25 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199608202352.NAA07436@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: David Greenman "Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card?" (Aug 20, 2:32pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } } The second part of your question...yes, your motherboard must have the "NCR } SCSI BIOS" in order for you to boot from the NCR. } Sounds like that could be a fairly rare thing. Who provides it besides ASUS? Richard From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 17:09:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA16386 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA16377 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA07430; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:22:39 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608202352.JAA07430@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: jas@flyingfox.COM (Jim Shankland) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:22:38 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608202103.OAA07838@saguaro.flyingfox.com> from "Jim Shankland" at Aug 20, 96 02:03:38 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Shankland stands accused of saying: > > I'm building up a couple of systems around the Asus P55T2P4 > mainboard and a P133 CPU. I had planned on adding the Asus > SC200 SCSI card, which is built around the NCR53C810; but the > local computer shop recommended against that, saying that the > SC200 must use IRQ0, and that I will therefore have trouble if I > try to run non-Microsoft operating systems. I'm afraid I don't > know enough about the PCI bus architecture even to know if this > is gibberish or not. (Hey, at least they know there *are* > non-Microsoft OS's!) I've also seen references to the NCR SCSI > BIOS, but I'm unclear on whether this is an extra-cost option > or not. > > Can anyone help shed some light here? They're bullshitting you (probably because their margin on other SCSI cards like the Adaptec is much higher 8( ). We use the SC200 extensively, and have been _very_ happy with them; our particular preference is that they have onboard active termination, where cheaper NCR cards have passive termination. Also, you might want to point out to the moron in the shop that PCI interrupts are lettered (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD), not numbered, and that INTA on one slot is _NOT_ connected to INTA on any other slot. > Jim Shankland -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 17:48:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA21182 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21177 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA20856 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:46:56 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA08833; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:45:23 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608210045.RAA08833@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608202352.NAA07436@pegasus.com> from Richard Foulk at "Aug 20, 96 01:52:25 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > } > } The second part of your question...yes, your motherboard must have the "NCR > } SCSI BIOS" in order for you to boot from the NCR. > } > > Sounds like that could be a fairly rare thing. Who provides it besides > ASUS? Just about anyone using an Award BIOS provides the NCR BIOS, the exception being larger OEM's who seem to leave it out. For those situations you use one of these: XX. TMG DTC12671 DTC 3130B NCR 53C810 fast SCSI-2 controller w/BIOS $ 118.00 -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 18:00:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA21823 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@mindbender.headcandy.com [199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21817 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10672; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608210056.RAA10672@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland), freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 20 Aug 96 16:03:31 -0700. <199608202303.QAA08500@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:56:48 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> A follow-up question, that I hope is of general interest: how does >> the SC200 stack up against the Adaptec 2940U? The SC200 is quite a >The line between when to switch from a 53C810 (I prefer to refer to >it by that number, as there are others besides the SC-200) to an >AHA2940U is real wide, and kinda grey, but here are some of the >things I use in helping clients decide this issue. [Some suggestions deleted...] I have been doing some testing over the last week or so between a BusLogic BT956c (PCI Wide, but not Ultra) and an Adaptec 2940UW. Unfortunately, I did not have an NCR 53c810 controller to mix in. The tests were conducted on a P5/120 (Asus P55TP4N, 512K PB cache, 32MB EDO RAM), with the controllers mentioned above, a 2GB Seagate Barracuda (ST32550N) approximately 45% full, and a 1GB Seagate Hawk (ST31200N) completely empty. Both drives support tagged-command- queuing. I tried to do at least half the tests against both drives simultaneously. I have concluded that these two SCSI controllers are almost completely equal in performance, if you don't have tagged-command-queuing. However, if you enable tagged-command-queuing in the Adaptec driver, the performance increase is *very* substantial, at least in my tests. Since the BusLogic doesn't currently have tagged-command-queuing in the bt driver, it loses this particular point. (But remember, your drives have to support it correctly, as well -- there are some older SCSI drives out there that don't support, or have buggy support. Hopefully all current drives on the market have decent support for it.) I don't know if the NCR has tagged-command-queuing support or not. If it did, I don't think I would trust it (the NCR driver is OK for workstation type stuff, as Justin pointed out, but it is known to be buggier than either the BusLogic or Adaptec drivers). >I do have to say that I have an order of magnitude more trust in the >aha2940 driver, and on my ability to get a bug fixed when I need it >(Hi Justin! Thanks for the _GREAT_ support!!) by sending the broken >hardware to Justin and giving him some time to work on it. On the other hand, the NCR is substantially cheaper than either of these two cards. And, it's reliability is decent enough to run a personal workstation. I don't think I'd run an important server on one, though. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 18:08:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA22195 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po2.glue.umd.edu (po2.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22190 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplink.eng.umd.edu (uplink.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.181]) by po2.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA27325; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by uplink.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01134; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: uplink.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@uplink.eng.umd.edu To: Richard Foulk cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: <199608202352.NAA07436@pegasus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Richard Foulk wrote: > } > } The second part of your question...yes, your motherboard must have the "NCR > } SCSI BIOS" in order for you to boot from the NCR. > } > > Sounds like that could be a fairly rare thing. Who provides it besides > ASUS? Take a look at computer shopper, it's a fairly common thing. My Tyan board has it too. > > > Richard > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 18:27:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA23397 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23362 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA08006; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:39:54 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608210109.KAA08006@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:39:53 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608202352.NAA07436@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Aug 20, 96 01:52:25 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Foulk stands accused of saying: > > } > } The second part of your question...yes, your motherboard must have the "NCR > } SCSI BIOS" in order for you to boot from the NCR. > } > > Sounds like that could be a fairly rare thing. Who provides it besides > ASUS? Just about everybody. I haven't met a BIOS lately that doesn't have it; even the _rather_crap_ "Data Expert" boards' BIOS supports them. > Richard -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 19:04:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA26024 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@mindbender.headcandy.com [199.238.225.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26016 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10945; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608210202.TAA10945@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland), freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 20 Aug 96 17:56:48 -0700. <199608210056.RAA10672@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:02:50 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> A follow-up question, that I hope is of general interest: how does >>> the SC200 stack up against the Adaptec 2940U? The SC200 is quite a [...] >I have been doing some testing over the last week or so between a >BusLogic BT956c (PCI Wide, but not Ultra) and an Adaptec 2940UW. >Unfortunately, I did not have an NCR 53c810 controller to mix in. >The tests were conducted on a P5/120 (Asus P55TP4N, 512K PB cache, >32MB EDO RAM), with the controllers mentioned above, a 2GB Seagate >Barracuda (ST32550N) approximately 45% full, and a 1GB Seagate Hawk >(ST31200N) completely empty. Both drives support tagged-command- [etc.] I should point out that all the testing was done on a fairly recent NetBSD-current (1.2_Beta), and does not reflect the rewrite Justin Gibbs is currently doing on the FreeBSD-current SCSI code. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative. If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 19:06:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA26310 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hogw2.att.com (hogw2.att.com [204.179.186.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26301 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aloft by hoig2.att.att.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2) id WAA06028; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:00:56 -0400 Received: from stargazer (stargazer.cnet.att.com) by aloft (4.1/DCS-aloft-M5.1) id AA23026; Tue, 20 Aug 96 22:04:22 EDT Received: by stargazer (4.1/DCS-aloft_client-S2.1) id AA12263; Tue, 20 Aug 96 22:04:20 EDT Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 22:04:20 EDT From: gtc@aloft.att.com (gary.corcoran) Message-Id: <9608210204.AA12263@stargazer> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? (PCI interrupts) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >PCI interrupts are lettered (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD), not numbered, and >that INTA on one slot is _NOT_ connected to INTA on any other slot. Is the non-connection between same-letter PCI interrupts in different slots only on good (versatile) motherboards, or is that part of the PCI spec? I was under the impression that at least _some_ MBs shared their PCI interrupts...? Gary From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 19:39:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00207 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA00180 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA08586; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:52:29 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608210222.LAA08586@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? (PCI interrupts) To: gtc@aloft.att.com (gary.corcoran) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:52:28 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9608210204.AA12263@stargazer> from "gary.corcoran" at Aug 20, 96 10:04:20 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk gary.corcoran stands accused of saying: > > >PCI interrupts are lettered (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD), not numbered, and > >that INTA on one slot is _NOT_ connected to INTA on any other slot. > > Is the non-connection between same-letter PCI interrupts in different > slots only on good (versatile) motherboards, or is that part of the > PCI spec? I was under the impression that at least _some_ MBs shared > their PCI interrupts...? The normal convention with PC motherboards is that devices will normally only generate INTA, and that INTA on each slot is routed seperately. Beyond this, I'm not so sure. I believe that other interrupts can be used by PCI-PCI bridge chips, but I'm not clear on that. Certainly there have been some motherboards where INTA was bridged across several slots; these all fall into the 'very broken' category. > Gary -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 21:08:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA07996 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mickey.umiacs.umd.edu (mickey.umiacs.umd.edu [128.8.120.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA07945 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mickey.umiacs.umd.edu [128.8.120.49]) by mickey.umiacs.umd.edu (8.7.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA09231; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@localhost Reply-To: Sujal Patel To: Michael Smith cc: Richard Foulk , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: <199608210109.KAA08006@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You can try this as root, to find out if you have NCR BIOS: bash# dd if=/dev/mem bs=1024k count=1 | strings | grep NCR If you have NCR Bios on board, this command should spit up some stuff about it (I can't say for sure, I don't have NCR Bios). Sujal From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 21:56:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA13356 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA13328 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA01395 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:54:39 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA09048; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:52:20 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608210452.VAA09048@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? (PCI interrupts) To: gtc@aloft.att.com (gary.corcoran) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9608210204.AA12263@stargazer> from "gary.corcoran" at "Aug 20, 96 10:04:20 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >PCI interrupts are lettered (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD), not numbered, and > >that INTA on one slot is _NOT_ connected to INTA on any other slot. The above statement is incorrect, the connection of INTx signals between slots is implementation specific. > Is the non-connection between same-letter PCI interrupts in different > slots only on good (versatile) motherboards, or is that part of the > PCI spec? It is one of several allowed implementations in the PCI spec, it is also one of the better implementations. > I was under the impression that at least _some_ MBs shared > their PCI interrupts...? That is correct, some of them bus these signals between cards, more common in the early PCI 1.0 compliant boards, rare today in the 2.1 compliant boards, but still allowed. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Aug 20 22:02:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA14427 for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA14412 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA02884 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:01:04 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA09063; Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:58:48 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608210458.VAA09063@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: smpatel@umiacs.umd.edu Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 21:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, richard@pegasus.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from Sujal Patel at "Aug 20, 96 09:06:53 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You can try this as root, to find out if you have NCR BIOS: > > bash# dd if=/dev/mem bs=1024k count=1 | strings | grep NCR > > If you have NCR Bios on board, this command should spit up some stuff > about it (I can't say for sure, I don't have NCR Bios). Caution, this command may crash your system, be prepared for a hang or a reboot. Reading the ISA whole at 640k->1MB can cause some really strange hardware actions to occur that FreeBSD is not prepared to handle. Especially true if you have memory mapped cards with register banks in that address range. If your going to do the above make sure you are in single user mode, and if it does not find an NCR string that is not an absolute indicator that you don't have an NCR bios, as some MB's map out the bios if it returns saying it found no devices. If the NCR string does show up, you defanitly have the NCR BIOS, but the opposite is not always true. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 01:39:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA20123 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 01:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA20116 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 01:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA09384 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 01:38:51 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608210838.BAA09384@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Parity EDO memory now avaliable... To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 01:38:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Someone on here was looking for EDO memory with Parity, I have managed to finally locate a supply of these parts: XX. MEM SIMM-16MB-4MBx36-60 Memory, SIMM, 4MBx36 - 60nS EDO $ 122.00 MFG: SEI/SEI D/C: 9626/9626/9622 This is currently the only size I can get, but my supplier of these is currently looking for source on 32MB modules (should be easy, they use the same chips :-)). I have tested a batch of these in the ASUS PCI/I-P55T2P4 boards and they are reported as EDO and it does run a make world without failure, though my incoming test failure rate is higher than I like to see (seems some of them have an access time closer to 63nS than 60nS :-(.) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 03:21:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA27574 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 03:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.philips.nl (ns.philips.nl [130.144.65.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA27567 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 03:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by relay.philips.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9-950414) id MAA05617 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:19:14 +0200 Received: from unknown(192.26.173.32) by ns.philips.nl via smap (V1.3+ESMTP) with ESMTP id sma005470; Wed Aug 21 12:17:55 1996 Received: from aonc01.nym.sc.philips.com (aonc01.nym.sc.philips.com [130.144.70.193]) by smtp.nl.cis.philips.com (8.6.10/8.6.10-0.9z-02May95) with ESMTP id MAA08543 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:20:34 +0200 Received: from NLNMG01.nym.sc.philips.com (nlnmg01 [130.144.80.6]) by aonc01.nym.sc.philips.com (8.6.10/8.6.10-0.993a-08Jan96) with ESMTP id MAA13597 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:19:07 +0200 Received: from NLNMG01/MAILQUEUE by NLNMG01.nym.sc.philips.com (Mercury 1.21); 21 Aug 96 12:19:12 +0100 Received: from MAILQUEUE by NLNMG01 (Mercury 1.21); 21 Aug 96 12:18:51 +0100 From: "Kees Jan Koster" Organization: Philips Semiconductors Nijmegen To: hardware@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:18:46 GMT+0100 Subject: multi, non-pentium motherboards? Reply-to: Kees.Koster@nym.sc.philips.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-ID: <2954836C41@NLNMG01.nym.sc.philips.com> Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hoi Hardware, Darn, I was a little quick to drop that e-mail about the dual 586-100's. That sounds really interesting. I just sold my old motherboard and somewhere next week I'll buy a new one. I'm considering an AMD-133, or another non-intel-almost-pentium cpu. However, I would _like_ to experiment with a multi-processor board too. Now, the price for a dual pentium seems a little over my budget, but if there is an alternative... Could you give me some advice, please? I sort of dread the amount of gibberish the salespeople are going to stuff down my throat next week and I'd like some professional advice first. - What speed of pentium do I need to match an AMD-133 during a large gcc-compile (read: make world). - Apart from the AMD-133, what are fast-and-cheap alternatives for pentiums? Are the IBM's and Cyrixes any good? - Are there non-pentium multiprocessor boards? Which ones are good? - If I go for a cheap dual processor board, how many hours of hacking do I need to get FreeBSD to use both processors? - Any brand of cpu/motherboard that I should avoid? Thanks in advance, Kees Jan Koster From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 09:14:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA02437 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unicorn.uk1.vbc.net (unicorn.uk1.vbc.net [204.137.194.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02424 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gordon@localhost) by unicorn.uk1.vbc.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA23557; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:12:54 +0100 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:12:53 +0100 (BST) From: Gordon Henderson X-Sender: gordon@unicorn To: C Matthew Curtin cc: Brandon Gillespie , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3COM network cards.. In-Reply-To: <199608201738.NAA01557@goffette.research.megasoft.com> Message-ID: Distribution: world Organization: Home for lost Drogons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, C Matthew Curtin wrote: > >>>>> "BG" == Brandon Gillespie writes: > > BG> I'm looking to find a good card to use on a router with a CSU/DSU > BG> unit (freeBSD router), any suggestions? Is the 3Com 590-COMBO? > BG> TPO? > > I just installed a FreeBSD-based firewall bastion host using 3Com > cards. In the first setup, I had a 3c590 and 3c595. The 3c590 > interface kept having problems and filled up buffers after about 1700 > or so bytes attempted to be sent through it. I'd need to bring the > interface down and back up to clear the queue and restore buffer > space. (Didn't have any software misconfigurations like messed up MTUs > or anything...I did check :-) > > The 3c595 never had this problem. We swapped the 595 and 590, and the > problem continued on the 590's interface. Got rid of the 590 and used > a second 595, and it's been rock solid since. > > Very strange. I know very little about PC hardware (used to Sun, IBM > RS/6000, and SGI hardware), so I'm not sure exactly what might have > been going on below the OS... 3comm changed the hardware spec. on the 590's after they were released. They reduced the FIFO size - the result was that the 590 drivers for both BSDi and FreeBSD croaked on them. Surprisingly it's the same fault - you do a FTP of a long file or whatever and it stalls needing an ifconfig down/up to get it going again which is wholly unnaceptable if you don't have console access!!! The BSDI driver has been fixed but to my knowledge the FreeBSD one is still broken (yea, I know, it's the hardware thats broken, but.) Also, I belive that the drivers use PIO mode and don't yet use PCI DMA facilities so it's not gonig to be any faster than an ISA 509 or a good NE2000 card. Gordon From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 09:31:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04029 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (root@al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03975 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 09:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA29860; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:00:50 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:00:50 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199608211630.CAA29860@al.imforei.apana.org.au> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199608202352.JAA07430@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> you wrote: : Also, you might want to point out to the moron in the shop that PCI : interrupts are lettered (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD), not numbered, and : that INTA on one slot is _NOT_ connected to INTA on any other slot. So this means that with multiple SC200 cards they can all be set on INTA ?? If so are there any pros/cons to doing this? I've got two in my machine, one driving a Fujitsu 230mb MO device under 2.1.5-stable, and just recently i've been having some disturbing hangs that feel like SCSI bus hangs whilst accessing the MO :( Could a mix match of SCSI-I and SCSI-II devices on the same bus cause this sort of problem? Basically i've got 2 1gb drives, a quantum fireball, and a segate 1080sl, along with a maxtor 330mb (ancient) on one bus, and the Fujitsu on the other.... The main reason for this at the moment is the Fujitsu's SCSI connector is upsidedown :( (and i hate cable twists/spagetti farms :) Regards, Peter -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 10:15:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA08528 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08516 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA15952; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:14:56 -0600 Message-Id: <199608211714.LAA15952@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 From: Steve Passe To: Kees.Koster@nym.sc.philips.com cc: hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: multi, non-pentium motherboards? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:18:46 BST." <2954836C41@NLNMG01.nym.sc.philips.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:14:56 -0600 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Hoi Hardware, > > Darn, I was a little quick to drop that e-mail about the dual > 586-100's. That sounds really interesting. I just sold my old > ... > - Are there non-pentium multiprocessor boards? Which ones are good? I don't believe you will find anything that will boot FreeBSD, which is written to the Intel MP spec. Problem is that to the best of my knowledge, the Intel chip is the only one to contain the APIC (advanced prog. INT controller) which is a necessary part of the MP spec. > - If I go for a cheap dual processor board, how many hours of > hacking do I need to get FreeBSD to use both processors? sup/ctm sources for SMP ontop of -current, 2 line change to kernel config file, then "config LOCALSMP; make depend; make; make install". -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 12:14:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA17366 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17361 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-15.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA10544 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:13:28 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id VAA04328; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:13:13 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:13:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608211913.VAA04328@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland), freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-Reply-To: <199608210056.RAA10672@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> References: <199608202303.QAA08500@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> <199608210056.RAA10672@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael L. VanLoon writes: > However, if you enable tagged-command-queuing in the Adaptec driver, > the performance increase is *very* substantial, at least in my tests. > Since the BusLogic doesn't currently have tagged-command-queuing in > the bt driver, it loses this particular point. (But remember, your > drives have to support it correctly, as well -- there are some older > SCSI drives out there that don't support, or have buggy support. > Hopefully all current drives on the market have decent support for > it.) > > I don't know if the NCR has tagged-command-queuing support or not. If > it did, I don't think I would trust it (the NCR driver is OK for > workstation type stuff, as Justin pointed out, but it is known to be > buggier than either the BusLogic or Adaptec drivers). Hmmm, thanks. Yes, the NCR driver has Tagged Command Queuing Support since its earliest days (for more than one and a half year now). It was the only controller that enabled it by default, and we identified a few disk drives that have broken firmware (with the HP 3724 and 3725 being the only current generation drives affected). > >I do have to say that I have an order of magnitude more trust in the > >aha2940 driver, and on my ability to get a bug fixed when I need it > >(Hi Justin! Thanks for the _GREAT_ support!!) by sending the broken > >hardware to Justin and giving him some time to work on it. Well, that really would help ... Why did I never receive a single piece of broken hardware to be able to reproduce a problem somebody sees with a single disk, tape or CDROM drive. This makes me wonder (again), whether I really should spend $1000 on the necessary hardware, and time worth some $10000 or more (if I spent it on paid work) just to allow other people to use the latest 53c8xx variants (Ultra-WIDE), who then complain about a NCR driver bug, whenever some VM system tuning introduces temporal instability :) Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 13:14:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA22441 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22335 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA19700 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:10:59 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA10653; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:07:51 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608212007.NAA10653@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: michaelv@HeadCandy.com, jas@flyingfox.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199608211913.VAA04328@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> from Stefan Esser at "Aug 21, 96 09:13:13 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... > > >I do have to say that I have an order of magnitude more trust in the > > >aha2940 driver, and on my ability to get a bug fixed when I need it > > >(Hi Justin! Thanks for the _GREAT_ support!!) by sending the broken > > >hardware to Justin and giving him some time to work on it. > > Well, that really would help ... > Why did I never receive a single piece of broken hardware to be able > to reproduce a problem somebody sees with a single disk, tape or CDROM > drive. Simple economics, it cost me less than $25.00 to overnight a drive and controller combination down to Justin, $50.00 round trip as I usually have him bill the return shipment to my accounts. It would cost me on the order of $87.00 each way to ship to you, plus there is the whole export/import/VAT and other taxes situation. It is very hard to get past VAT as you have to deal with temporary export/ import paper work and all sorts of other oddities. It also takes me 5 minutes to prep a shipment to Justin, it would take close to an hour to prep an international temporary export. I make very little money selling SC-200 cards at $75.00 a piece there just isn't much margin in them. > This makes me wonder (again), whether I really should spend $1000 > on the necessary hardware, and time worth some $10000 or more (if I > spent it on paid work) just to allow other people to use the latest > 53c8xx variants (Ultra-WIDE), who then complain about a NCR driver > bug, whenever some VM system tuning introduces temporal instability :) Don't make me laugh... I've probably invested well into the 6 digits of time and money into FreeBSD in one way or another. I am sure David, John, Jordan, Poul, Julian, and a fist full of others are in the same situation. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 14:11:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA27740 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA27731; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA01052; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:09:53 +0200 (MET DST) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser), michaelv@HeadCandy.com, jas@flyingfox.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:07:51 PDT." <199608212007.NAA10653@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:09:52 +0200 Message-ID: <1050.840661792@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>Stefan: >> This makes me wonder (again), whether I really should spend $1000 >> on the necessary hardware, and time worth some $10000 or more (if I >> spent it on paid work) just to allow other people to use the latest >> 53c8xx variants (Ultra-WIDE), who then complain about a NCR driver >> bug, whenever some VM system tuning introduces temporal instability :) > >Rod: >Don't make me laugh... I've probably invested well into the 6 digits >of time and money into FreeBSD in one way or another. I am sure David, >John, Jordan, Poul, Julian, and a fist full of others are in the same >situation. I'd like to jump in here. I know Rod and I know Stefan too. You guys are like made to misunderstand each other! We all know that the relationship between the resources a person can muster for FreeBSD in terms of HW and $$$ has nothing to do with the value of that contributor to the project. Several people have proved that point many times over, Stefan is one of them. $1000 may not sound like much to Rod, but to a lot of people that would be all of one years budget for computer-hw, in many cases probably even more than that. I really wish we could get some people to donate money, so that we could help productive but HW-challenged people like Stefan. The confusing thing here is the smiley after Stefans complaint. If I read it right, its that feeling of "the world is an unjust place, but heck, it's still better than the alternative". -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 14:13:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA27860 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27855 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id LAA20249; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:12:48 -1001 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:12:48 -1001 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199608212113.LAA20249@pegasus.com> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How do these two boards actually compare? Disregarding drivers are they fairly similar in capability and speed? Are they possibly similar enough to share driver code? If the SC200 is capable of keeping up with the 2940 given good driver support then it would seem appropriate for the FreeBSD community to get behind it -- given the much more reasonable price. BTW: who has the best mail-order price for these things? Richard From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 15:11:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA04074 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from everest.dtr.com (livdial29.fta.com [205.139.102.223]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03918 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 15:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmk@localhost) by everest.dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00637; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:56:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199608212156.OAA00637@everest.dtr.com> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au (Peter Childs) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 14:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608211630.CAA29860@al.imforei.apana.org.au> from "Peter Childs" at Aug 22, 96 02:00:50 am From: "Brant M. Katkansky" Reply-To: bmk@fta.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In article <199608202352.JAA07430@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> you wrote: > : Also, you might want to point out to the moron in the shop that PCI > : interrupts are lettered (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD), not numbered, and > : that INTA on one slot is _NOT_ connected to INTA on any other slot. > So this means that with multiple SC200 cards they can all be set on > INTA ?? If so are there any pros/cons to doing this? Yes. I have mine set up this way on my ASUS board. > I've got two in my machine, one driving a Fujitsu 230mb MO device under > 2.1.5-stable, and just recently i've been having some disturbing hangs > that feel like SCSI bus hangs whilst accessing the MO :( > Could a mix match of SCSI-I and SCSI-II devices on the same bus cause > this sort of problem? Basically i've got 2 1gb drives, a quantum > fireball, and a segate 1080sl, along with a maxtor 330mb (ancient) > on one bus, and the Fujitsu on the other.... Couldn't comment on this - I haven't had any problems like this and I have mixed SCSI-I and SCSI-II devices (3 Seagate Hawk 1GB, 1 NEC CD-ROM changer and SCSI-I CDROM drive). I had two HP SCSI-I disks on the second channel as well, but I put them on another system. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 17:50:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA22958 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA22939 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA12475; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:04:16 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608220034.KAA12475@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:04:16 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199608212113.LAA20249@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Aug 21, 96 11:12:48 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Foulk stands accused of saying: > > How do these two boards actually compare? Disregarding drivers > are they fairly similar in capability and speed? "depends". the aic7770 (the chip on the 2940) is perhaps a slightly more gutsy device than the 53c810. > Are they possibly similar enough to share driver code? No, they are totally and utterly different. > If the SC200 is capable of keeping up with the 2940 given good > driver support then it would seem appropriate for the FreeBSD > community to get behind it -- given the much more reasonable price. The FreeBSD community _IS_ behind it, for crying out loud. The NCR driver is perfectly functional, and only loses to the aic7770 driver at the high end because of basic hardware limitations. I have no problems keeping 2 or 3 spindles quite busy with one, and given the $2-300 price difference here, that makes me a happy camper. Have you ever tried an NCR-based controller? > Richard -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 19:47:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA04389 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04379 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id QAA25271; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:46:58 -1001 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:46:58 -1001 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199608220247.QAA25271@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Michael Smith "Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ..." (Aug 22, 10:04am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... Cc: Michael Smith Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } > How do these two boards actually compare? Disregarding drivers } > are they fairly similar in capability and speed? } } "depends". the aic7770 (the chip on the 2940) is perhaps a } slightly more gutsy device than the 53c810. Could you elaborate a bit? } } The FreeBSD community _IS_ behind it, for crying out loud. The NCR driver } is perfectly functional, and only loses to the aic7770 driver at the } high end because of basic hardware limitations. I have no problems } keeping 2 or 3 spindles quite busy with one, and given the $2-300 price } difference here, that makes me a happy camper. I meant to consider it more the preferred choice. Currently, the Adaptec seems to be the preferred board. } } Have you ever tried an NCR-based controller? } No. Trying means buying! And investing a whole lot of time. That's why I'm asking all these stupid questions (for crying out loud :-). Richard From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 20:04:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA05677 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA05669 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA13199; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:17:56 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608220247.MAA13199@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:17:56 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199608220247.QAA25271@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Aug 21, 96 04:46:58 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Richard Foulk stands accused of saying: > > } "depends". the aic7770 (the chip on the 2940) is perhaps a > } slightly more gutsy device than the 53c810. > > Could you elaborate a bit? The aic7770 appears to handle heavier loads better; this may be because it keeps its program in local memory (does it?) rather than needing to fetch an opcode every 1us (as the 53c810 does) across the PCI bus. It may just be due to better device design. General consensus and experience has it that for more than 2 or 3 busy disks the Adaptec part is a better choice. > I meant to consider it more the preferred choice. Currently, the Adaptec > seems to be the preferred board. That's not unreasonable given that a lot of people are building big servers using FreeBSD. But a lot of people go for the NCR controllers for workstations because they're cheap and effective, and FreeBSD's support for these controllers is generally just as good. All through the first quarter or so of this year Justin was struggling with the 'aic' driver, eventually getting it pretty well right; in the same period the 'ncr' driver was rock-solid. As a result of that, if nothing else, I'd say a lot of us prefer the NCR cards 8) > Richard -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 20:36:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA07795 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paloalto.access.hp.com (daemon@paloalto.access.hp.com [15.254.56.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07790 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by paloalto.access.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA016944977; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:17 -0700 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA078734976; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:16 -0700 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA169064976; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199608220336.AA169064976@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:12:48 -1001." <199608212113.LAA20249@pegasus.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:15 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How do these two boards actually compare? Disregarding drivers > are they fairly similar in capability and speed? The NCR driver is quite nice. It's certainly hard to go wrong for the money. Here are some benchmarks, using an NCR815-based controller: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Bonnie: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU PCI/Q4.0 256 3350 66.8 3387 14.8 2027 15.9 4671 90.0 6065 24.6 87.5 4.1 ***** IOZONE: $ time iozone 256 Writing the 256 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...77.492188 seconds Reading the file...43.460938 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 3464032 bytes/second for writing the file 6176476 bytes/second for reading the file ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is on a P133, with 64MB 60ns parity FPM DRAM, ASUS P55T2P4 w/512K PB cache, a 4GB Quantum Atlas (34300S), and a DTC 3130B SCSI controller. Note that these measurements were *NOT* done on the outer tracks of the drive; the drive was half-full when these benchmarks were done, and so I'd guess that they were done around the tracks 1/3 of the way in. > BTW: who has the best mail-order price for these things? The NCR(now Symbios)-based controllers aren't easy to find. If you have an ASUS, the ASUS SC-200 appears to be good. If you don't have an on-board NCR BIOS, the Data Technology DTC 3130B ("B" for "BIOS") is good (it's a narrow, fast SCSI-2 controller). NECX sells it for around US$105. Very nice. [ Yes, I know that I don't need an NCR controller with a BIOS, as my ASUS motherboard has an NCR BIOS, but I had some difficulty locating an SC-200. ] -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 21:29:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA11153 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from whizzo.transsys.com (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA11148 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.transsys.com (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.transsys.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA18043; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199608220425.AAA18043@whizzo.transsys.com> X-Authentication-Warning: whizzo.transsys.com: Host localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Darryl Okahata cc: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk), freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... References: <199608220336.AA169064976@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:15 PDT." <199608220336.AA169064976@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:25:17 -0400 Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > BTW: who has the best mail-order price for these things? > > The NCR(now Symbios)-based controllers aren't easy to find. If you > have an ASUS, the ASUS SC-200 appears to be good. If you don't have an > on-board NCR BIOS, the Data Technology DTC 3130B ("B" for "BIOS") is > good (it's a narrow, fast SCSI-2 controller). NECX sells it for around > US$105. Very nice. I'm using a Tyan "Yorktown" controller, based on a 53C825 (fast/wide) chip, which also includes a BIOS ROM on the card. I think I paid about $119 for it, from the same vendor selling Tyan motherboards. I've been very happy with it's operation. I've got a Micropolis 4221 2GB disk, a Toshiba XM-3601TA CDROM, and an Archive Python 25501 DAT drive on an 8 bit (non-wide) SCSI bus. Works great, and way more than a few $$$ cheaper than the Adaptec alternative. louie From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Aug 21 23:42:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA20781 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA20776; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608220642.XAA20776@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Stefan Esser cc: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , "Rodney W. Grimes" , jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland), freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:13:13 +0200." <199608211913.VAA04328@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:42:33 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't know if the NCR has tagged-command-queuing support or not. If > > it did, I don't think I would trust it (the NCR driver is OK for > > workstation type stuff, as Justin pointed out, but it is known to be > > buggier than either the BusLogic or Adaptec drivers). That wasn't me who said that. I know there have been bugs in the past with the NCR driver, but there have also been bugs in the aic7xxx driver too. I have no idea of the current stability of the ncr driver since I don't own one of those cards. My only problem with the ncr driver right now is that I don't have all the necessary changes from Stefan yet to make it work with my changes to the SCSI system. Prod. Prod. 8-) -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 00:11:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA22146 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA22042 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA07769 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:07:48 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA11666; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:04:28 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608220704.AAA11666@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, michaelv@HeadCandy.com, jas@flyingfox.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608220642.XAA20776@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at "Aug 21, 96 11:42:33 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I don't know if the NCR has tagged-command-queuing support or not. If > > > it did, I don't think I would trust it (the NCR driver is OK for > > > workstation type stuff, as Justin pointed out, but it is known to be > > > buggier than either the BusLogic or Adaptec drivers). > > That wasn't me who said that. I know there have been bugs in the past with > the NCR driver, but there have also been bugs in the aic7xxx driver too. I > have no idea of the current stability of the ncr driver since I don't own > one of those cards. > > My only problem with the ncr driver right now is that I don't have all > the necessary changes from Stefan yet to make it work with my changes to > the SCSI system. Prod. Prod. 8-) Would having an NCR 53C810 and an NCR 53C825 at your permanent disposal help you in any way? I could arrange to have these donated to the FreeBSD project, no strings attached, no tax deduction needed. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 00:29:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA23745 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA23740 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA10103 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:28:32 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA11692; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:25:49 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608220725.AAA11692@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1050.840661792@critter.tfs.com> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Aug 21, 96 11:09:52 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Trimmed cc: back to freebsd-hardware] > >>Stefan: > >> This makes me wonder (again), whether I really should spend $1000 > >> on the necessary hardware, and time worth some $10000 or more (if I > >> spent it on paid work) just to allow other people to use the latest > >> 53c8xx variants (Ultra-WIDE), who then complain about a NCR driver > >> bug, whenever some VM system tuning introduces temporal instability :) > > > >Rod: > >Don't make me laugh... I've probably invested well into the 6 digits > >of time and money into FreeBSD in one way or another. I am sure David, > >John, Jordan, Poul, Julian, and a fist full of others are in the same > >situation. > > I'd like to jump in here. > > I know Rod and I know Stefan too. > > You guys are like made to misunderstand each other! Upon reflection of history I can agree with that statement. > We all know that the relationship between the resources a person > can muster for FreeBSD in terms of HW and $$$ has nothing to do > with the value of that contributor to the project. > > Several people have proved that point many times over, Stefan is > one of them. Agreed. > $1000 may not sound like much to Rod, but to a lot of people that > would be all of one years budget for computer-hw, in many cases > probably even more than that. $1,000 is a $1,000 to me or anyone else, but your probably right in that I don't look at that as a whole lot of hardware. > I really wish we could get some people to donate money, so that > we could help productive but HW-challenged people like Stefan. AAC would be willing to help in this area, if, and this is a big if, it had tax advantages for it to do so. Ie, a 501(c)3 FreeBSD Project, Inc. could expect to receive some place between $1,000 and $5,000/year in cash from AAC, along with the heaviest discouting I can do on hardware purchases (cost + shipping + overhead of a few percent). If you have doubts about that the 2H/1995, 1H/1996 dicounts taken by FreeBSD core team members is in excess of $1,000, which is the best way I currently have of ``donating'' money to the project without it adversely affecting my bottom line Profit & Loss statements. > The confusing thing here is the smiley after Stefans complaint. > If I read it right, its that feeling of "the world is an unjust > place, but heck, it's still better than the alternative". I'm still tring to figure the smiley out :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 00:43:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA24612 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA24607; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608220743.AAA24607@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Michael Smith cc: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk), freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:17:56 +0930." <199608220247.MAA13199@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:43:47 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The aic7770 appears to handle heavier loads better; this may be because it >keeps its program in local memory (does it?) rather than needing to >fetch an opcode every 1us (as the 53c810 does) across the PCI bus. It >may just be due to better device design. It does have the entire program in ram as do some of the newer NCR (or should I say symbios?) cards. > All through >the first quarter or so of this year Justin was struggling with the >'aic' driver, eventually getting it pretty well right; in the same >period the 'ncr' driver was rock-solid. That's 'ahc' not 'aic'. I haven't rewritten the 'aic' driver yet. 8-) >-- >]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ >]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ >]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ >]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ >]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 00:55:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA25439 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA25434 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA14245; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:09:09 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608220739.RAA14245@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:09:08 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, richard@pegasus.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199608220743.AAA24607@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 22, 96 00:43:47 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs stands accused of saying: > > >The aic7770 appears to handle heavier loads better; this may be because it > >keeps its program in local memory (does it?) rather than needing to > >fetch an opcode every 1us (as the 53c810 does) across the PCI bus. It > >may just be due to better device design. > > It does have the entire program in ram as do some of the newer NCR (or > should I say symbios?) cards. Hmm, Symbios is the name the cards go under; I tend to be more interested in the chip on the card. NCR-based just naturally contracts for me - perhaps I'm just too slack 8) > > All through > >the first quarter or so of this year Justin was struggling with the > >'aic' driver, eventually getting it pretty well right; in the same > >period the 'ncr' driver was rock-solid. > > That's 'ahc' not 'aic'. I haven't rewritten the 'aic' driver yet. > 8-) Oops, freudian slip there. 8) Now my Jaz has arrived, I keep wondering if the 'aic' driver will work well enough for me to risk buying a SlimSCSI to drive it off my notebook... > Justin T. Gibbs -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 03:33:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA04047 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 03:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA04042; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 03:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02935; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:33:17 +0200 (MET DST) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:25:48 PDT." <199608220725.AAA11692@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 12:33:16 +0200 Message-ID: <2933.840709996@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >If you have doubts about that the 2H/1995, 1H/1996 dicounts taken by >FreeBSD core team members is in excess of $1,000, which is the best >way I currently have of ``donating'' money to the project without >it adversely affecting my bottom line Profit & Loss statements. I have no doubts that your contribution is unmatched. That's actually what I'm complaining about :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 05:48:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA11288 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA11268 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-2.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA19752 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:48:04 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA07179; Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:19:26 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:19:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608212019.WAA07179@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: Peter Childs Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: <199608211630.CAA29860@al.imforei.apana.org.au> References: <199608211630.CAA29860@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Childs writes: > In article <199608202352.JAA07430@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> you wrote: > > : Also, you might want to point out to the moron in the shop that PCI > : interrupts are lettered (INTA, INTB, INTC, INTD), not numbered, and > : that INTA on one slot is _NOT_ connected to INTA on any other slot. > > So this means that with multiple SC200 cards they can all be set on > INTA ?? If so are there any pros/cons to doing this? In fact they all SHOULD be set to Int A ! Int A is the principal interrupt line of each PCI slot. It is mapped to some ISA IRQ by the system BIOS at POST time on all current PCI motherboards. The PCI code knows how to deal with the case that multiple PCI cards end up being connected to the same ISA IRQ. But you will want to have a seperate IRQ assigned to each PCI device, if your system configuration permits this. The system startup messages will show the IRQ used for each PCI device at the end of its probe line. > I've got two in my machine, one driving a Fujitsu 230mb MO device under > 2.1.5-stable, and just recently i've been having some disturbing hangs > that feel like SCSI bus hangs whilst accessing the MO :( Please send me some details (from /var/log/messages). I need at least the complete boot message log (preferably from a boot with "-v" for more verbose probe output) and the error message when the SCSI command was aborted. > Could a mix match of SCSI-I and SCSI-II devices on the same bus cause > this sort of problem? Basically i've got 2 1gb drives, a quantum > fireball, and a segate 1080sl, along with a maxtor 330mb (ancient) > on one bus, and the Fujitsu on the other.... The driver should be able to support a mix of SCSI-2 drives and ancient drives (which often show up as SCSI-1, though they already support most SCSI-2 features). But many such devices do not work reliably on a SCSI bus that has FAST SCSI devices connected at 10MHz sync. transfer rate, even if the old device is only using asynchronous transfers. So you may try limiting the SCSI sync transfer rate to 5MHz or less (see the "ncrcontrol (8)" man page). > The main reason for this at the moment is the Fujitsu's SCSI connector > is upsidedown :( (and i hate cable twists/spagetti farms :) O well, that's one of the best reasons to buy a second SCSI controller that I've ever heard ;-) Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 05:51:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA11435 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbd.gfoster.com (dyna237.intr.net [204.157.123.237]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA11429 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 05:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by tbd.gfoster.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA02195; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:50:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Glen Foster Message-Id: <199608221250.IAA02195@tbd.gfoster.com> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199608220336.AA169064976@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> (message from Darryl Okahata on Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:15 -0700) Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A couple of data points with Adaptec 2940s: ***** Bonnie: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU P166 100 1414 23.8 1356 5.1 700 4.3 1736 27.5 2081 7.7 42.7 1.9 ***** IOZONE: Writing the 128 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...96.320312 seconds Reading the file...66.140625 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 1393451 bytes/second for writing the file 2029278 bytes/second for reading the file Machine is a P166, with 64MB 60ns parity DRAM, ASUS P55T2P4 w/256K PB cache, a 1GB Fujitsu M2266S-512 002C, and an Adaptec 2940 SCSI controller running 2.1.5R. Disk was about 3/4 full at start of test. This drive is an older 5 1/4" 3600 RPM drive that is not doing syncronous transfers, if I get a wild hair I'll flop some jumpers and see if sync xfers can be enabled. ***** Bonnie: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU P100 100 2056 51.4 4226 19.3 1609 12.9 2076 50.7 4291 19.7 72.1 3.9 ***** IOZONE: Writing the 256 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...96.984375 seconds Reading the file...63.914062 seconds IOZONE performance measurements: 2767821 bytes/second for writing the file 4199943 bytes/second for reading the file Machine is a P100, with 32MB 70ns non-parity DRAM, unknown MB w/256K PB cache, a 2GB Seagate ST32430N 0300, and an Adaptec 2940 running 2.1.5R. Disk was about 1/2 full at start of test. Without trying to get too deep into the numbers, I think one could say that one's money is more effectively spent on disk, RAM, and CPU than on a "better" SCSI controller. >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:15 -0700 >From: Darryl Okahata > >> How do these two boards actually compare? Disregarding drivers >> are they fairly similar in capability and speed? > > The NCR driver is quite nice. It's certainly hard to go wrong for >the money. Here are some benchmarks, using an NCR815-based controller: > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >***** Bonnie: > -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- > -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- >Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU >PCI/Q4.0 256 3350 66.8 3387 14.8 2027 15.9 4671 90.0 6065 24.6 87.5 4.1 > >***** IOZONE: >$ time iozone 256 > >Writing the 256 Megabyte file, 'iozone.tmp'...77.492188 seconds >Reading the file...43.460938 seconds > >IOZONE performance measurements: > 3464032 bytes/second for writing the file > 6176476 bytes/second for reading the file >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >This is on a P133, with 64MB 60ns parity FPM DRAM, ASUS P55T2P4 w/512K >PB cache, a 4GB Quantum Atlas (34300S), and a DTC 3130B SCSI controller. >Note that these measurements were *NOT* done on the outer tracks of the >drive; the drive was half-full when these benchmarks were done, and so >I'd guess that they were done around the tracks 1/3 of the way in. From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 07:40:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA19123 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zaraza.bofh.org.il (root@zaraza.bofh.org.il [192.115.153.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19074 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zaraza.bofh.org.il (sgt@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zaraza.bofh.org.il (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA13165 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:35:56 +0200 (IST) Message-Id: <199608221535.RAA13165@zaraza.bofh.org.il> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.8 8/21/96 Organization: Bastard Operator From Hell, Israel Rulez: FreeBSD Sux: Linux, Windoze, IDF & Netscape X-url: http://www.bofh.org.il/sgt/ To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Sparc Sony GDM-1950 monitor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:35:55 +0200 From: Sergei Barbarash Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Does anyone have an experience tuning Sony sparc monitors to work with XF86? I successfully installed a Hitachi monitor with some help I found on the web. With Sony, however, the task seemes more complex. I'm using Cirrus Logic 5424 (depth 8 is ok for me). Any help will be greatly appreciated. (Please cc me - I'm not on the list). -- ======================================================================= Sergei Barbarash http://www.netmedia.net.il/sgt/ NetMedia International, System Administrator & Programmer ============= Office: +972-2-795860; Home: +972-2-664779 ============================ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 09:17:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA24868 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hp.com (hp.com [15.255.152.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24861 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpmwtd.sr.hp.com by hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA045130633; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:17:14 -0700 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpmwtd.sr.hp.com with SMTP (15.11.1.6/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA29219; Thu, 22 Aug 96 09:17:11 -0700 Message-Id: <9608221617.AA29219@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com> To: Glen Foster Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:50:50 EDT." <199608221250.IAA02195@tbd.gfoster.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:17:10 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > A couple of data points with Adaptec 2940s: > > ***** Bonnie: > -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- > -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- > Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU > P166 100 1414 23.8 1356 5.1 700 4.3 1736 27.5 2081 7.7 42.7 1.9 Well, if we're including "slow" disks, here are a few more benchmarks on my NCR/Symbios 815-based controller: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Bonnie: -------Sequential Output-------- ---Sequential Input-- --Random-- -Per Char- --Block--- -Rewrite-- -Per Char- --Block--- --Seeks--- Machine MB K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU K/sec %CPU /sec %CPU PCI/Q4.0 256 3350 66.8 3387 14.8 2027 15.9 4671 90.0 6065 24.6 87.5 4.1 PCI/1280 256 4267 86.3 4393 19.2 1207 8.3 4118 77.9 4620 17.8 56.8 2.5 PCI/L730 200 2639 52.1 2594 11.0 933 6.1 2417 45.6 2564 9.8 46.4 2.0 ***** IOZONE: Read Write PCI/Q4.0 6176476 3464032 PCI/1280 4724936 4276790 PCI/L730 2823778 2757160 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where: "PCI/Q4.0" refers to a 4GB Quantum Atlas (34300S). 7200RPM, 8.5ms seek (not access). "PCI/1280" refers to a 1.2GB Quantum Fireball 1280. 5400RPM, 12ms seek (not access). "PCI/L730" refers to a 700MB Quantum Lightning 730. 4500RPM, 11ms seek (not access). All of these were done on the same system: P133 Asus P55T2P4 motherboard w/512K PB cache 64MB 60ns parity FPM DRAM DTC 3130B SCSI controller (815-based) 2.2-snap-080196 -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 09:20:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA25117 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.225.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24920 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA29867; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:14:58 +0200 Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA27369; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:27:50 +0200 From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199608221627.SAA27369@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Sparc Sony GDM-1950 monitor In-Reply-To: <199608221535.RAA13165@zaraza.bofh.org.il> from Sergei Barbarash at "Aug 22, 96 05:35:55 pm" To: sgt@netmedia.net.il (Sergei Barbarash) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:27:49 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hello, > > Does anyone have an experience tuning Sony sparc monitors to work with XF86? I > successfully installed a Hitachi monitor with some help I found on the web. > With Sony, however, the task seemes more complex. I have it running with an ELSA Winner 1000 ISA under Xaccel in 1280x1024 rez. > > I'm using Cirrus Logic 5424 (depth 8 is ok for me). > > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > (Please cc me - I'm not on the list). > -- > ======================================================================= > Sergei Barbarash http://www.netmedia.net.il/sgt/ > NetMedia International, System Administrator & Programmer ============= > Office: +972-2-795860; Home: +972-2-664779 ============================ > > > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 09:32:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA26059 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway.tcs.com (tcsi.com [137.134.47.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA26050 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from draco.tcs.com (draco.tcs.com [137.134.40.2]) by gateway.tcs.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27862; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cozumel.tcs.com (cozumel.tcs.com [137.134.104.12]) by draco.tcs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20238; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:30:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Douglas Ambrisko Received: (ambrisko@localhost) by cozumel.tcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id JAA10862; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:30:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199608221630.JAA10862@cozumel.tcs.com> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, richard@pegasus.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608220743.AAA24607@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Aug 22, 96 00:43:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs writes: | | >The aic7770 appears to handle heavier loads better; this may be because it | >keeps its program in local memory (does it?) rather than needing to | >fetch an opcode every 1us (as the 53c810 does) across the PCI bus. It | >may just be due to better device design. | | It does have the entire program in ram as do some of the newer NCR (or | should I say symbios?) cards. Does the driver have to change to take advantage of the new NCR cards with on-board ram? If it does has it been done? Doug A. From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 09:46:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27179 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net (root@mindbender.serv.net [205.153.153.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27098 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23848; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608221643.JAA23848@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Justin T. Gibbs" cc: Stefan Esser , "Rodney W. Grimes" , jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland), freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 21 Aug 96 23:42:33 -0700. <199608220642.XAA20776@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:43:51 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > I don't know if the NCR has tagged-command-queuing support or not. If >> > it did, I don't think I would trust it (the NCR driver is OK for >> > workstation type stuff, as Justin pointed out, but it is known to be >> > buggier than either the BusLogic or Adaptec drivers). >That wasn't me who said that. I know there have been bugs in the past with >the NCR driver, but there have also been bugs in the aic7xxx driver too. I >have no idea of the current stability of the ncr driver since I don't own >one of those cards. It was *me* who said it. :-) I've personally had the NCR driver die rather predictably on a heavy-feed news server. This is why I don't quite trust it completely. Which is why I say it works fine on an "average" workstation, but it isn't quite industrial strength. On the other hand, that was many months ago, and it's possible those bugs have been fixed. For what it's worth, three of the machines I have at work (all Pentiums) have an NCR 53c8xx SCSI controller in them, running Windows NT. It holds up just fine when I abuse it there, so I'm sure it's not the controller itself. On the other other hand :-), I do believe I get better "high-load" performance from my one machine with the Adaptec 2940 in it, but that's also my fastest CPU. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 10:29:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA01798 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from al.imforei.apana.org.au (root@al.imforei.apana.org.au [202.12.89.41]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01788 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 10:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pjchilds@localhost) by al.imforei.apana.org.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA00592; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 02:58:36 +0930 (CST) From: Peter Childs Message-Id: <199608221728.CAA00592@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: <199608212019.WAA07179@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> from Stefan Esser at "Aug 21, 96 10:19:26 pm" To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 02:58:36 +0930 (CST) Cc: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Discussion about hangs on 2.1.5-stable machine with dual ASUS SC200 NCR810 PCI scsi controllers follows... may be dangerous to mental health ] Stefan Esser wrote... > > So this means that with multiple SC200 cards they can all be set on > > INTA ?? If so are there any pros/cons to doing this? > > In fact they all SHOULD be set to Int A ! Ok.. the second NCR was set to INT B... i've put them both on A now. > > I've got two in my machine, one driving a Fujitsu 230mb MO device under > > 2.1.5-stable, and just recently i've been having some disturbing hangs > > that feel like SCSI bus hangs whilst accessing the MO :( > > Please send me some details (from /var/log/messages). I need > at least the complete boot message log (preferably from a > boot with "-v" for more verbose probe output) and the error > message when the SCSI command was aborted. Nothing gets into /var/log/message when it dies... I've taken the following action (one crash after the next) 1. INT B -> INT A on the second card. 2. PCI latency was set to 80... Michael Smith suggested it be lower than 32 to i've moved it to 20. 3. Grabbed a fresh 2.1.5-stable kernel (i follow -stable, but my kernel tree had ipfilter stuff in it...) 4. Removed the options OD_BOGUS_NOT_READY line from my config. It feels fine when i'm not accessing the MO drive.. but i did a "make clean" on my -stable tree... which is on the second scsi bus, did a "bad144 -s /dev/rod0" on the MO disk (also second scsi bus), and started thrashing tin.. (newsspools on the first scsi - old disk)... this all ran fine for a good 10 minutes... then suddenly.. bang.. locked solid. I'll include the "-v" boot here.. and hope i don't annoy to many people with its size :) I think when i get back after the weekend i'll pull one of the SCSI controllers out, and see how i go thrashing all the devices. Its a real pain not being able to depend on this machine, esp. the MO disk (it always crashes before i can get a backup finished :) FreeBSD 2.1.5-STABLE #0: Fri Aug 23 11:56:26 CST 1996 root@:/disk2/kernel/sys/compile/AL_1.8 CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x494 real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 64106496 (62604K bytes) pcibus_setup(1): mode1res=0x80000000 (0x80000000), mode2res=0xff (0x0e) pcibus_setup(2): mode1res=0x80000000 (0x80000000) pcibus_check: device 0 1 2 3 4 5 is there (id=04961039) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: configuration mode 1 allows 32 devices. chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 ncr0 rev 17 int a irq 15 on pci0:11 mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000e800 size=0100. mapreg[14] type=0 addr=fbff0000 size=0100. reg20: virtual=0xf546f000 physical=0xfbff0000 size=0x100 ncr0: restart (scsi reset). ncr0 scanning for targets 0..6 (V2 pl23 95/09/07) Choosing drivers for scbus configured at 0 (ncr0:1:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd is configured at 0 sd0(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1042MB (2134305 512 byte sectors) sd0(ncr0:1:0): with 3835 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 139 sectors/track (ncr0:5:0): "MICROP 1684-07MB1057403 HSP4" type 0 fixed SCSI 1 sd is configured at 3 sd3(ncr0:5:0): Direct-Access 323MB (663476 512 byte sectors) sd3(ncr0:5:0): with 1780 cyls, 7 heads, and an average 53 sectors/track ncr1 rev 1 int a irq 14 on pci0:12 mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000e400 size=0100. mapreg[14] type=0 addr=fbfe0000 size=0100. reg20: virtual=0xf5472000 physical=0xfbfe0000 size=0x100 ncr1: restart (scsi reset). ncr1 scanning for targets 0..6 (V2 pl23 95/09/07) (ncr1:3:0): "SEAGATE ST51080N 0943" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd is configured at 4 sd4(ncr1:3:0): Direct-Access sd4(ncr1:3:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1030MB (2109840 512 byte sectors) sd4(ncr1:3:0): with 4826 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 109 sectors/track (ncr1:6:0): "FUJITSU M2512A 1507" type 7 removable SCSI 2 od is configured at 0 od0(ncr1:6:0): Optical od0(ncr1:6:0): 200ns (5 Mb/sec) offset 8. 217MB (446325 512 byte sectors) od0(ncr1:6:0): with approximate 217 cyls, 64 heads, and 32 sectors/track pci0: uses 512 bytes of memory from fbfe0000 upto fbff00ff. pci0: uses 512 bytes of I/O space from e400 upto e8ff. Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 on isa ed0: address 00:00:21:41:58:58, type NE2000 (16 bit) bpf: ed0 attached sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f on isa matcd - Matsushita (Panasonic) CD-ROM Driver by FDIV, Version 1(26) 18-Oct-95 matcdc0 at 0x360-0x363 on isa matcdc0 Host interface type 1 matcd0: [CR-5620.76] npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface gus0 at 0x220 irq 12 drq 1 on isa gus0: gus0: Device configuration finished. Considering FFS root f/s. Configuring root and swap devs. configure() finished. BIOS Geometries: 0:03f3213e 0..1011=1012 cylinders, 0..33=34 heads, 1..62=62 sectors 1:03fd0a3b 0..1021=1022 cylinders, 0..10=11 heads, 1..59=59 sectors 0 accounted for bpf: lo0 attached bpf: sl0 attached bpf: sl1 attached bpf: sl2 attached bpf: tun0 attached bpf: tun1 attached bpf: tun2 attached IP firewall initialized, logging disabled sd3s1: type 0xa5, start 0, end = 663475, size 663476 sd3s1: C/H/S end 323/61/20 (401759) != end 663475: invalid sd4s1: type 0xa5, start 45, end = 2109779, size 2109735 : OK sd3s1: type 0xa5, start 0, end = 663475, size 663476 sd3s1: C/H/S end 323/61/20 (401759) != end 663475: invalid sd4s1: type 0xa5, start 45, end = 2109779, size 2109735 : OK Relevant(??) bits of my kernel config as follows... controller pci0 controller ncr0 controller scbus0 at ncr0 controller scbus1 disk sd0 at scbus0 target 1 disk sd4 at scbus1 target 3 disk sd3 at scbus0 target 5 device od0 at scbus1 target 6 #options OD_BOGUS_NOT_READY Regards, Peter -- Peter Childs --- http://www.imforei.apana.org.au/~pjchilds Finger pjchilds@al.imforei.apana.org.au for public PGP key From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 13:25:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA13683 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (mvs.oac.ucla.edu [164.67.200.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13626; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608222025.NAA13626@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: from UCLAMVS.BITNET by MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (IBM MVS SMTP V2R2.1) with BSMTP id 2910; Thu, 22 Aug 96 13:25:32 PST Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 13:24 PDT To: multimedia@FREEBSD.ORG From: Denis DeLaRoca (310) 825-4580 Subject: Vat 4.0b2 and GUS Driver CC: hardware@FREEBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hardware@FREEBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am running Vat 4.0b2 (compiled with the voxware audio code interface) and the beta Gravis Ultrasound pro driver. By and large it works. Often though, it seems that 2 or more samples are merged on playback... but worst still, all of a sudden the last audio chunk is replayed repeatedly for something like 3-5 seconds. When this happens, Vat's UV meter freezes. This repeated-playback problem does occur quite often. Is anybody observing similar problems? At the moment I don't know if Vat with the Voxware audio code is supposed to work asis with the GUS driver. Amancio Hasty who developed the driver reported running ok with Vat 4.0b1 but his FTP site is down and I am unable to verify wether he had modified Vat or not. Vat's audio sliders for example, though selectable, appear non-functional. Opening the mike for speaking makes Vat's input VU meter hit its maximum and it was impossible to adjust the input level. Both locally compiled versions of Vat, b1 and b2, give the above problems. My GUS hardware configuration appears ok. I noticed "isa_dmastart: channel 3 busy" messages when starting Vat. But that appears to be an artifact that when Vat quits the list of busy dma channels in the kernel is not updated. At any rate isa_dmastart() just disregards busy dma channels after issuing the warning message. I am running on a fairly slow 486 system but I think the problems are more in the interfacing between vat and the GUS driver and/or plain problems with the GUS beta driver. Anybody can help? -- Denis From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 15:58:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24471 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24371 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA17486 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA12872; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:16:36 +0300 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:16:36 +0300 (EET DST) From: Narvi To: Grant Carter cc: hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pine Motherboards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Grant Carter wrote: > Hello > > Could anyone please tell me if there is any reason why BSD should > give hassles with a PINE motherboard (PT-7502). It has the Intel > i430VX chipset. This will be used in conjunction with 2x16Mb TIN > plated EDO RAM (60ns) and an ExpertColor S3 ViRGE (325). I don't know about the rest, but is there a X server for XFree86 which works with S3 Virge? Sander > > Many thanks in advance > Grant > > --- > Grant Carter gcarter@eleceng.uct.ac.za > Electrical Engineering Student University of Cape Town > "Coffee not found - operator halted!" > From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 16:57:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04896 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04876 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA13093; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:47:02 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608222347.QAA13093@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au (Peter Childs) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 16:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608221728.CAA00592@al.imforei.apana.org.au> from Peter Childs at "Aug 23, 96 02:58:36 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [ Discussion about hangs on 2.1.5-stable machine with dual ASUS SC200 > NCR810 PCI scsi controllers follows... may be dangerous to > mental health ] ... > 2. PCI latency was set to 80... Michael Smith suggested it be lower than > 32 to i've moved it to 20. Set it to exactly 32, no more, no less. ASUS and others have done 100's of hours of testing and this was found to be the best setting. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 17:15:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07686 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA07670 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 17:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA17181; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:29:19 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608222359.JAA17181@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:29:19 +0930 (CST) Cc: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608222347.QAA13093@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 22, 96 04:47:01 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > > > > [ Discussion about hangs on 2.1.5-stable machine with dual ASUS SC200 > > NCR810 PCI scsi controllers follows... may be dangerous to > > mental health ] > ... > > > 2. PCI latency was set to 80... Michael Smith suggested it be lower than > > 32 to i've moved it to 20. > > Set it to exactly 32, no more, no less. ASUS and others have done > 100's of hours of testing and this was found to be the best setting. Even with two 810's coming up for an opcode every us? I'd have thought you'd want to allow for (max latency + one opcode fetch) < 1us so that the second one didn't starve... > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 18:33:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA17067 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA17058 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA17650; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:47:50 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608230117.KAA17650@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... To: ambrisko@tcsi.com (Douglas Ambrisko) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:47:50 +0930 (CST) Cc: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, richard@pegasus.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608221630.JAA10862@cozumel.tcs.com> from "Douglas Ambrisko" at Aug 22, 96 09:30:51 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Douglas Ambrisko stands accused of saying: > > | > | It does have the entire program in ram as do some of the newer NCR (or > | should I say symbios?) cards. > > Does the driver have to change to take advantage of the new NCR cards with > on-board ram? If it does has it been done? No, and yes respectively. > Doug A. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 20:05:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA23341 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23336 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA18494; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:19:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608230249.MAA18494@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:19:22 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608230301.UAA13429@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Aug 22, 96 08:01:42 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > > > Even with two 810's coming up for an opcode every us? I'd have > > thought you'd want to allow for (max latency + one opcode fetch) < 1us > > so that the second one didn't starve... > > Even with 6 of them.... the latency time just says if someone else wants > the bus I can't use it for more than a total of 32 clocks, the NCR should > be buffering enough of its opcodes for this to not be a problem. Ah. I wasn't aware that it prefetched; I thought the whole issue with pulling the latency back to 32 was to make it possible for the 810 to grab the bus for each opcode. I must admit that it makes more sense this way. > Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Aug 22 20:14:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA23598 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA23593 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA13429; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:01:42 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608230301.UAA13429@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608222359.JAA17181@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Aug 23, 96 09:29:19 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > > > > > > > [ Discussion about hangs on 2.1.5-stable machine with dual ASUS SC200 > > > NCR810 PCI scsi controllers follows... may be dangerous to > > > mental health ] > > ... > > > > > 2. PCI latency was set to 80... Michael Smith suggested it be lower than > > > 32 to i've moved it to 20. > > > > Set it to exactly 32, no more, no less. ASUS and others have done > > 100's of hours of testing and this was found to be the best setting. > > Even with two 810's coming up for an opcode every us? I'd have > thought you'd want to allow for (max latency + one opcode fetch) < 1us > so that the second one didn't starve... Even with 6 of them.... the latency time just says if someone else wants the bus I can't use it for more than a total of 32 clocks, the NCR should be buffering enough of its opcodes for this to not be a problem. I've done a fair bit of testing with 4 NCR's, and so has Joe Greco and we have not seen any problems running 4 of them full bore with this setting. I have also done this with 2940's and a mixture of NCR/2940's and DEC 21x4x networks cards, still no problems. Video capture boards, well, now you start to get into the magical land of having to very carefully tune things to work optimally. Jim Lowe over at UWM is having better luck with NCR based systems than he is/was with 2940 based for some reason. It don't make since, and given that I don't have the Matrox Meteor hardware here to debug it with I have defered to him on that one. He specs all his video systems with the NCR... go figure! -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 14:23:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14690 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14679 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-6.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08226 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:22:26 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA22802; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:07:17 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:07:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608232007.WAA22802@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: Peter Childs Cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: <199608221728.CAA00592@al.imforei.apana.org.au> References: <199608212019.WAA07179@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> <199608221728.CAA00592@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Childs writes: > > [ Discussion about hangs on 2.1.5-stable machine with dual ASUS SC200 > NCR810 PCI scsi controllers follows... may be dangerous to > mental health ] > > Stefan Esser wrote... > > > So this means that with multiple SC200 cards they can all be set on > > > INTA ?? If so are there any pros/cons to doing this? > > > > In fact they all SHOULD be set to Int A ! > > Ok.. the second NCR was set to INT B... i've put them both on A > now. Ok. The BIOS has setup a connection from Int A of the PCI slot you put the card in to some interrupt line of the ISA interrupt controller. It then put the IRQ choosen into some NCR register (in PCI config space) for the driver init code. The driver used that IRQ number to install an interrupt handler. Now, if you had the card configured to Int B, then the BIOS would still (correctly !) setup Int A, since the NCR chip got its request for the Int A hard coded into some other config space register. Now the NCR had got a jumper to the Int B line in your previous setup, while the BIOS and the driver assumed to have it wired to Int A, and Int B interrupts would either be ignored or delivered as some other IRQ, depending on implementation details of your mother board. This might have lead to strange effects (stray interrupts, for example), but if Int B came out as some IRQ for which some other devcie had registered a handler, then that device would receive "spurious" interrupts, and most probably ignore them ... But the second NCR was effectively limited to a low command rate (It will be polled 100 times a second until the driver sees the first interrupt occur). > > Please send me some details (from /var/log/messages). I need > > at least the complete boot message log (preferably from a > > boot with "-v" for more verbose probe output) and the error > > message when the SCSI command was aborted. > > Nothing gets into /var/log/message when it dies... I've taken the following > action (one crash after the next) > > 1. INT B -> INT A on the second card. > 2. PCI latency was set to 80... Michael Smith suggested it be lower than > 32 to i've moved it to 20. PCI latency is a very nice concept, but like interrupts quite different from what you'd expect in a PC compaticle system ... The latency timer has to be set to a value that permits long bursts of data to be sent, taking advantage of page mode and cache snoop optimizations (one snoop per cache line instead of per memory access). But these burst ought to be limited in such a way, that no device's input buffer overflows because a burst takes too long. While ISA bus-master devices (for example the Adpatec 1542) did short bursts (4 WORD transfers, IIRC) and then released the ISA bus for a few microseconds, PCI has a concept of an arbiter, which assigns the bus to any bus-master in the system, generally in a round-robin fashion. If a device FIFO is 512 bytes and data arrives at 10MB/s (say a 100baseT Ethernet chip), then it can give up the PCI bus for some 50 microseconds. At a burst transfer rate of 80MB/s it would take less than 10 microseconds to write the FIFO contents to memory, while the same chip might only be able to get 20MB/s using small (4 DWORD) transfers. You want to guarantee, that each device gets the PCI bus granted before its buffer overflows. And the easiest way to achieve this is to have a timer set to the maximum latency allowed divided by the number of devices on the PCI bus. If a device starts a burst, it is allowed to proceed, even if some other device requests the PCI bus. But if there is a request from some other device and the latency timer is expired, the first device is asked to stop its burst ASAP, and the next device will become the bus owner. This way a burst can be extended arbitrarily if there is no other request for the bus, but there is a guarantee that after #devices times max_latency each device had access to the PCI bus. PCI defines registers to contain information about the required burst length and the maximum latency, and a PCI BIOS might be able to calculate the optimum value of the latency timer from these parameters of all PCI devices installed ... (But I don't know of any PCI BIOS that actually does this.) > 3. Grabbed a fresh 2.1.5-stable kernel (i follow -stable, but my kernel > tree had ipfilter stuff in it...) > 4. Removed the > options OD_BOGUS_NOT_READY > line from my config. > > It feels fine when i'm not accessing the MO drive.. but i did a > "make clean" on my -stable tree... which is on the second scsi bus, > did a "bad144 -s /dev/rod0" on the MO disk (also second scsi bus), > and started thrashing tin.. (newsspools on the first scsi - old > disk)... this all ran fine for a good 10 minutes... then suddenly.. > bang.. locked solid. Hmmm, it proceeds for 10 minutes, then hangs without any error messages ? > I'll include the "-v" boot here.. and hope i don't annoy to many > people with its size :) Well, they don't have to read beyond this point :) > I think when i get back after the weekend i'll pull one of the SCSI > controllers out, and see how i go thrashing all the devices. Its a > real pain not being able to depend on this machine, esp. the MO > disk (it always crashes before i can get a backup finished :) Yes, I really understand that ... > FreeBSD 2.1.5-STABLE #0: Fri Aug 23 11:56:26 CST 1996 > root@:/disk2/kernel/sys/compile/AL_1.8 > CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) > Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x494 > real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) > avail memory = 64106496 (62604K bytes) > pcibus_setup(1): mode1res=0x80000000 (0x80000000), mode2res=0xff (0x0e) > pcibus_setup(2): mode1res=0x80000000 (0x80000000) > pcibus_check: device 0 1 2 3 4 5 is there (id=04961039) > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > configuration mode 1 allows 32 devices. > chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 Hmm, a SiS chip set ... Did you try to disable PCI performance options like burst mode or write buffers ? There are some PCI chip sets that don't work reliably with competing bus-masters and those options enabled. > ncr0 rev 17 int a irq 15 on pci0:11 Is this a NCR 53c810A ? I don't have a data book about that particular chip, but according to a numbering convention used for other NCR chips, the A devices get a rev. > 0x10. > mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000e800 size=0100. > mapreg[14] type=0 addr=fbff0000 size=0100. > reg20: virtual=0xf546f000 physical=0xfbff0000 size=0x100 > ncr0: restart (scsi reset). > ncr0 scanning for targets 0..6 (V2 pl23 95/09/07) > Choosing drivers for scbus configured at 0 > (ncr0:1:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd is configured at 0 > sd0(ncr0:1:0): Direct-Access > sd0(ncr0:1:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > 1042MB (2134305 512 byte sectors) > sd0(ncr0:1:0): with 3835 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 139 sectors/track > (ncr0:5:0): "MICROP 1684-07MB1057403 HSP4" type 0 fixed SCSI 1 > sd is configured at 3 > sd3(ncr0:5:0): Direct-Access 323MB (663476 512 byte sectors) > sd3(ncr0:5:0): with 1780 cyls, 7 heads, and an average 53 sectors/track > ncr1 rev 1 int a irq 14 on pci0:12 This one is the same revision as the chip I got. > mapreg[10] type=1 addr=0000e400 size=0100. > mapreg[14] type=0 addr=fbfe0000 size=0100. > reg20: virtual=0xf5472000 physical=0xfbfe0000 size=0x100 > ncr1: restart (scsi reset). > ncr1 scanning for targets 0..6 (V2 pl23 95/09/07) > (ncr1:3:0): "SEAGATE ST51080N 0943" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd is configured at 4 > sd4(ncr1:3:0): Direct-Access > sd4(ncr1:3:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > 1030MB (2109840 512 byte sectors) > sd4(ncr1:3:0): with 4826 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 109 sectors/track > (ncr1:6:0): "FUJITSU M2512A 1507" type 7 removable SCSI 2 > od is configured at 0 > od0(ncr1:6:0): Optical > od0(ncr1:6:0): 200ns (5 Mb/sec) offset 8. > 217MB (446325 512 byte sectors) > od0(ncr1:6:0): with approximate 217 cyls, 64 heads, and 32 sectors/track > pci0: uses 512 bytes of memory from fbfe0000 upto fbff00ff. > pci0: uses 512 bytes of I/O space from e400 upto e8ff. [ probe of ISA devices removed ] > Relevant(??) bits of my kernel config as follows... > > controller pci0 > controller ncr0 > > controller scbus0 at ncr0 > controller scbus1 > > disk sd0 at scbus0 target 1 > disk sd4 at scbus1 target 3 > disk sd3 at scbus0 target 5 > device od0 at scbus1 target 6 > > #options OD_BOGUS_NOT_READY Doesn't look wrong at all ... So please try: - with all devices connected to one NCR - with PCI performance options disabled - with the SCSI transfer rate reduced to 2MHz (-> ncrcontrol -s sync=2) I guess you know about the limitation on the length of the SCSI cable, the requirements for correct termination and From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 14:23:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14717 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14710 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-6.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08221 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:22:24 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA22806; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:10:12 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:10:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608232010.WAA22806@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: Peter Childs Cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser), msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: <199608221728.CAA00592@al.imforei.apana.org.au> References: <199608212019.WAA07179@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> <199608221728.CAA00592@al.imforei.apana.org.au> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ continuing my previous message which left this system prematurely :) ] ... and a power supply that delivers enough 12V current to support simultanous seeks on all devices. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 14:25:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14869 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14864 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-6.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08207 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:22:16 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id WAA22814; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:24:26 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:24:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608232024.WAA22814@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: Michael Smith Cc: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes), pjchilds@imforei.apana.org.au, se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? In-Reply-To: <199608222359.JAA17181@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199608222347.QAA13093@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> <199608222359.JAA17181@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > > 2. PCI latency was set to 80... Michael Smith suggested it be lower than > > > 32 to i've moved it to 20. > > > > Set it to exactly 32, no more, no less. ASUS and others have done > > 100's of hours of testing and this was found to be the best setting. > > Even with two 810's coming up for an opcode every us? I'd have > thought you'd want to allow for (max latency + one opcode fetch) < 1us > so that the second one didn't starve... This isn't how the latency timer works ... The latency timer prevents a device with a large internal buffer from sending long bursts, which else might cause overruns in receive buffers of other devices. The NCR53c810 got only a small FIFO anyway. It will give up the PCI bus so fast that even the fastest latency timer setting (the lowest value) has no effect at all. But Rod is of course right: The default of 32 should be used except if you have a very controlled environment that has only a few PCI bus-masters with extremely high data rates. In such a case a higher latency timer value might allow for longer bursts and a higher sustained PCI data rate. But you can't use a device that is unable to stop its data source and that does not have a large FIFO in such a case. (Ie. a SCSI chip could just stop the sending device and thus avoid a buffer overflow, while an Ethernet chip most probably can't :) Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 14:25:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA14920 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14828 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-6.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08195 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:21:46 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA22840; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:03:44 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:03:44 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608232103.XAA22840@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser), michaelv@HeadCandy.com, jas@flyingfox.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-Reply-To: <199608212007.NAA10653@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> References: <199608211913.VAA04328@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> <199608212007.NAA10653@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rodney W. Grimes writes: > ... > > > >I do have to say that I have an order of magnitude more trust in the > > > >aha2940 driver, and on my ability to get a bug fixed when I need it > > > >(Hi Justin! Thanks for the _GREAT_ support!!) by sending the broken > > > >hardware to Justin and giving him some time to work on it. > > > > Well, that really would help ... > > Why did I never receive a single piece of broken hardware to be able > > to reproduce a problem somebody sees with a single disk, tape or CDROM > > drive. Reading your reply it seems that you took my mail very personally ... That was not what I intended. I know your point of view, and while I doubt that I ever could help you in case of a technical problem (while I was able to debug failures with many other people quite effectively), my mail was in no way meant to bring up this point again. > Simple economics, it cost me less than $25.00 to overnight a drive and > controller combination down to Justin, $50.00 round trip as I usually > have him bill the return shipment to my accounts. It would cost me > on the order of $87.00 each way to ship to you, plus there is the whole > export/import/VAT and other taxes situation. > > It is very hard to get past VAT as you have to deal with temporary export/ > import paper work and all sorts of other oddities. It also takes me 5 > minutes to prep a shipment to Justin, it would take close to an hour to > prep an international temporary export. Well, the case that made me give up trying to offer support to you was the failure of a cheap CD-ROM drive (the Chinon 525), which most probably cost you less than $87 and thus would not have justified all this paper work for the temporary export :) > I make very little money selling SC-200 cards at $75.00 a piece there > just isn't much margin in them. Yes, sure. But you sell SCSI based systems at a reasonable price because such a cheap (and fast and well designed) SCSI card exists. > > This makes me wonder (again), whether I really should spend $1000 > > on the necessary hardware, and time worth some $10000 or more (if I > > spent it on paid work) just to allow other people to use the latest > > 53c8xx variants (Ultra-WIDE), who then complain about a NCR driver > > bug, whenever some VM system tuning introduces temporal instability :) > > Don't make me laugh... I've probably invested well into the 6 digits > of time and money into FreeBSD in one way or another. I am sure David, > John, Jordan, Poul, Julian, and a fist full of others are in the same > situation. No, I was not talking about the time and money I spent. I never counted hours, but I might try to get to some estimate. You might even beat me by an order of magnitude. That's not my point at all. I'm currently thinking about spending three weeks of vacation on all the cleanup required in the driver to make it fully support the more recent 53c8xx chips. And this will require me to buy a new system with an Ultra-Wide NCR controller and an appropriate drive. I'm not taking the price of the system into account, just what it costs to order those additional UW components, which I don't actually have any use for, except for driver testing. And its just no fun to invest these three weeks of time, which I might as well spend on some sunny island, if all I can hope for is that after the worst bugs introduced by the changes (there will be some, it will be a rewrite of major parts of the driver) have been found, people will go back to the normal level of NCR driver bashing. This driver has for quite some time (in late 1994) been the fastest in FreeBSD. It had for quite some time been the only driver that actually used Tagged Command Queues by default. Both of these made it much more likely for race conditions and locking problems in the kernel to show up, since the time required to start a command and the number of commands in operation at a time could be higher than with other controllers. There was quite some time correlations between large changes to the VM code and supposed NCR driver instability. And I invested tens to hundreds of hours into looking for errors in the driver that vanished as soon as other parts of the kernel had stabilized again. There have been real bugs (and real nasty bugs :) in the driver, and there most probably are still some more (in which driver aren't any ?). And I'm very interested in further improving the quality of the code. But I found that I can't do this besides my current job (there are only so many hours to a day ...) and I'm really wondering whether it is a good idea to spend all of my vacation on this. It's as simple as this ... Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 14:31:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA15338 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15163 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-6.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08245 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:26:16 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id XAA22865; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:26:14 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:26:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608232126.XAA22865@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser), michaelv@HeadCandy.com, jas@flyingfox.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-Reply-To: <1050.840661792@critter.tfs.com> References: <199608212007.NAA10653@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> <1050.840661792@critter.tfs.com> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >>Stefan: > >> This makes me wonder (again), whether I really should spend $1000 > >> on the necessary hardware, and time worth some $10000 or more (if I > >> spent it on paid work) just to allow other people to use the latest > >> 53c8xx variants (Ultra-WIDE), who then complain about a NCR driver > >> bug, whenever some VM system tuning introduces temporal instability :) > > > >Rod: > >Don't make me laugh... I've probably invested well into the 6 digits > >of time and money into FreeBSD in one way or another. I am sure David, > >John, Jordan, Poul, Julian, and a fist full of others are in the same > >situation. > > I'd like to jump in here. Hi Poul! > I know Rod and I know Stefan too. > > You guys are like made to misunderstand each other! Well, yes, I also wondered about this some time ago ... > We all know that the relationship between the resources a person > can muster for FreeBSD in terms of HW and $$$ has nothing to do > with the value of that contributor to the project. > > Several people have proved that point many times over, Stefan is > one of them. > > $1000 may not sound like much to Rod, but to a lot of people that > would be all of one years budget for computer-hw, in many cases > probably even more than that. Hmmm, no, that was not my point, actually. I can afford to spend the money. But I just don't to like to spend it in a way that only leads lots of effort spent with people unsatisfied by the results. I'd rather spend my money and time differently in that case. > I really wish we could get some people to donate money, so that > we could help productive but HW-challenged people like Stefan. Ahemm, yes, sure. It really would help to have access to a large number of devices for error recovery procedure tests and regression tests. And since older devices often have less debugged firmware, they are primary candidates for such tests. I could afford to buy lots of known buggy SCSI drives, but I don't want to. I prefer to buy quality devices since I want to entrust them my valuable data ... Somebody once offered to send me a Chinon CDROM drive, and I really could have made good use of it, since it shows some problems with sync. transfer negotiation, which seem to be unique to this drive. Many people did help me identify the causes of incompatibilities, and it was often possible to find an acceptable work around. (Thanks to all those, BTW. Some had commercial interests, but some did invest tens of hours booting debug kernels and sending back the output in order to help understand the causes of a problem, though they could have returned the device and bought a better, working one for a few tens of dollars ... ) > The confusing thing here is the smiley after Stefans complaint. > If I read it right, its that feeling of "the world is an unjust > place, but heck, it's still better than the alternative". There IS an alternative ??? :) Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 15:19:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19445 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19326 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-6.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08674 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:14:41 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA22908; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:14:39 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:14:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608232214.AAA22908@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Cc: Stefan Esser , "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , "Rodney W. Grimes" , jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland), freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-Reply-To: <199608220642.XAA20776@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <199608211913.VAA04328@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> <199608220642.XAA20776@freefall.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Justin T. Gibbs writes: > > > I don't know if the NCR has tagged-command-queuing support or not. If > > > it did, I don't think I would trust it (the NCR driver is OK for > > > workstation type stuff, as Justin pointed out, but it is known to be > > > buggier than either the BusLogic or Adaptec drivers). > > That wasn't me who said that. I know there have been bugs in the past with > the NCR driver, but there have also been bugs in the aic7xxx driver too. I > have no idea of the current stability of the ncr driver since I don't own > one of those cards. > > My only problem with the ncr driver right now is that I don't have all > the necessary changes from Stefan yet to make it work with my changes to > the SCSI system. Prod. Prod. 8-) Yes, sure. But my job doesn't leave me any time to work out a good solution except if I take a vacation for it. I might be able to write a wrapper that just copies the data structure provided by the new generic code into local variables, as is done with the current code. Or I might be able to complete a version that is limited to a small number of simultanous commands (ahemm, ONE single command :) which will be made fully functional a few weeks later (famous last words, I know ...) Well, anyway: I know that you can't accept being kept back for too long, and I appreciate the changes you have prepared and hope they'll be intergrated soon. And I know there are dependencies ... I intend to spend a full work on NCR driver issues this weekend, but I can't promise that I'll have a preliminary solution to offer before one or two other week(end)s have passed. Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 15:36:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21199 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21190 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (annexr3-16.slip.Uni-Koeln.DE) by FileServ1.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08798 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:35:51 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id AAA22927; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:34:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:34:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199608232234.AAA22927@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> From: Stefan Esser To: Michael Smith Cc: ambrisko@tcsi.com (Douglas Ambrisko), gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org, richard@pegasus.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 ... In-Reply-To: <199608230117.KAA17650@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199608221630.JAA10862@cozumel.tcs.com> <199608230117.KAA17650@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Douglas Ambrisko stands accused of saying: > > > > | > > | It does have the entire program in ram as do some of the newer NCR (or > > | should I say symbios?) cards. > > > > Does the driver have to change to take advantage of the new NCR cards with > > on-board ram? If it does has it been done? > > No, and yes respectively. No, sorry. It's actually "Yes and No" ... The driver detects the PCI IDs of the newer cards. By now I've got the data books for the 53c810A, 825A, 860 and the 875, and I've actually read them :) Each of them supports a different combination of features, and the only way to support all of them is to completely redesign the way the SCRIPTS code that is executed by the NCR is supplied with the driver. A command might only be available as a sequence of instructions in the old chips, and the best way to deal with this is to have the NCR code be generated at boot time from a compact higher level description (a byte code). The design of all this is done, and the current "firmware" converted to the new syntax, but I have not yet finished the code generator and the dynamic linker that combines multiple independent fragments into a running NCR program. I could enable instruction prefetch and a few other features based on the information in the data books, but do not intend to do so, as long as I had no way to test the effects on my system. For this reason I do not intend to release any code, before I had a chance to see it run on my still to arrive new system, which will come with a 53c875 ... I'm thinking about buying another 53c810A based card in order to have both types (enhanced vs. enhanced + ULTRA + WIDE + RAM) for testing in one machine. But there has been an announcement of a driver for the new Tekram SCSI cards based on the 53c875. I had no chance to study the driver sources, but the author claims that the current NCR driver in FreeBSD does not correctly initialize that card. I suppose there is a problem with the (unknown to me) clock oscillator frequency used on that card, and it will be easy to fix. I can't tell by now, how good that driver is, but I'll have a look at the sources soon ... Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 15:45:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA21719 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA21647; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608232244.PAA21647@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Stefan Esser cc: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" , "Rodney W. Grimes" , jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland), freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:14:39 +0200." <199608232214.AAA22908@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:44:21 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Well, anyway: I know that you can't accept being kept back >for too long, and I appreciate the changes you have prepared >and hope they'll be intergrated soon. And I know there are >dependencies ... Well, I haven't been held back too much. I know have the generic SCSI layer performing all tagged-queueing processing. Basically the lower level drivers read the "tag_type" field out of the scsi_xfer structure and if non-zero send it to the device. I've also implemented bowrite which converts sync writes to ordered async writes giving around a 10% improvement on some of the ad-hoc benchmarks I've tried. Its not as fast as mounting async (that does delayed writes), but I'll take a safe 10% improvement any day. >Regards, STefan -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 16:35:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA24562 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from salsa.gv.ssi1.com (salsa.gv.ssi1.com [146.252.44.194]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA24536 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.ssi1.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA13220; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199608232333.QAA13220@salsa.gv.ssi1.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:33:09 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Justin T. Gibbs" "Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940" (Aug 23, 3:44pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Aug 23, 3:44pm, "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: } Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 } I've also implemented bowrite which } converts sync writes to ordered async writes giving around a 10% } improvement on some of the ad-hoc benchmarks I've tried. Its not as fast } as mounting async (that does delayed writes), but I'll take a safe 10% } improvement any day. This isn't really hardware related, but I think the "soft updates" stuff mentioned in http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~ganger/papers/CSE-TR-254-95/CSE-TR-254-95.ps.Z would be quite nice to have. I just looked in the papers directory and a number of the other titles appear quite interesting. --- Truck From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 17:16:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA27567 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:16:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27546 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA10476; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608240015.RAA10476@austin.polstra.com> To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Urgent - what are these disk errors? In-reply-to: <199608160913.LAA23660@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:15:24 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert wrote: > That means a sector can't be read on your disk. > > Try "scsi -f /dev/rsd3.ctl -m 1". You should have the first two parameters > set to 1. If not, use "scsi -f /dev/rsd3.ctl -m 1 -P 3 -e" and change both > of them to 1. From now, read and write errors will result in the sector > mapped as bad and another one substitued. > > AWRE (Auto Write Reallocation Enbld): 1 > ARRE (Auto Read Reallocation Enbld): 1 Cool! Do you still get a console message when the error happens? If there are many of them, one might want to replace his disk drive. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 17:42:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA03753 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03747; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608240042.RAA03747@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Don Lewis cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:33:09 PDT." <199608232333.QAA13220@salsa.gv.ssi1.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:42:34 -0700 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >On Aug 23, 3:44pm, "Justin T. Gibbs" wrote: >} Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 >} I've also implemented bowrite which >} converts sync writes to ordered async writes giving around a 10% >} improvement on some of the ad-hoc benchmarks I've tried. Its not as fast >} as mounting async (that does delayed writes), but I'll take a safe 10% >} improvement any day. > >This isn't really hardware related, but I think the "soft updates" stuff >mentioned in >http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~ganger/papers/CSE-TR-254-95/CSE-TR-254-95.ps.Z >would be quite nice to have. I believe Kirk is already working on the soft update stuff. > --- Truck -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Aug 23 18:26:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA16063 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA16053 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA24070; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:56:02 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199608240126.KAA24070@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: ASUS SC200 SCSI card? To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:56:02 +0930 (CST) Cc: hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199608232024.WAA22814@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> from "Stefan Esser" at Aug 23, 96 10:24:26 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Esser stands accused of saying: > > Michael Smith writes: > > Rodney W. Grimes stands accused of saying: > > > > > 2. PCI latency was set to 80... Michael Smith suggested it be lower than > > > > 32 to i've moved it to 20. > > > > > > Set it to exactly 32, no more, no less. ASUS and others have done > > > 100's of hours of testing and this was found to be the best setting. > > > > Even with two 810's coming up for an opcode every us? I'd have > > thought you'd want to allow for (max latency + one opcode fetch) < 1us > > so that the second one didn't starve... > > This isn't how the latency timer works ... > > The latency timer prevents a device with > a large internal buffer from sending long > bursts, which else might cause overruns > in receive buffers of other devices. ... but this is (as far as I can tell) exactly what I was saying; the latency timer defines how long another device can hog the bus. If the 810 wants the bus every us (it may not, I'm just using this as an example), then the latency must be set to 1us or less so that a device that starts a burst just before the 810 requests the bus will stop before the 810 starves. If you add another 810, and assume that it comes up for a fetch just after the first 810, which is held off by a burst from a device that runs the full time allowed (128 bytes, not too long). Then the first 810 gets the bus and fills its pipeline; has more than 1us expired? is the second 810 starved? Does it actually care? These are the questions that would lead me to suggest backing the latency timer down. Practical experience (offered by RG and co.) suggest that I'm wrong, but I guess I just don't understand why 8) > Regards, STefan Thanks for taking the time to explain... -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Aug 24 04:00:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA26921 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 04:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from public.jn.sd.cn (public.jn.sd.cn [202.102.128.111]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26910 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 04:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ems.sdjnptt.net.cn.ems.sdjnptt.net.cn (ems.sdjnptt.net.cn [202.102.128.70]) by public.jn.sd.cn (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id TAA09590 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 19:00:57 +0900 Message-ID: <321ED316.6701@public.jn.sd.cn> Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 19:01:58 +0900 From: Song Lining Reply-To: sln@public.jn.sd.cn Organization: Data Communication, Jinan Telecom, P.R. China X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5aGold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Config mouse in XF86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I 've installed the FreeBSD days ago and it runs well except the configuration of XF86. I met difficulties in configuring my mouse. I've tried to link /dev/mouse to /dev/mse0 and /dev/psm0, when I using command "startx" , the system told me that my mouse devices /dev/mse0 or /dev/psm0 have not been configured. The message is: "/dev/psm0: device not configured". But I have built the devices using MAKEDEV. Who can help me? PS: I'm using a Compaq Presario CDS 724 (intel 486) Thanks! Song Lining From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Aug 24 06:40:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA03643 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 06:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from public.jn.sd.cn (public.jn.sd.cn [202.102.128.111]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA03638 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 06:40:47 -0700 (PDT) From: sln@public.jn.sd.cn Received: (from sln@localhost) by public.jn.sd.cn (8.6.11/8.6.11) id VAA11103; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:41:38 +0900 Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:41:37 +0900 (CDT) To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: copy files to floppy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I want to copy files larger than 1.44M from one FreeBSD machine to another. I've tried to use tar and gzip but I cannot find the relevant functions in these commands. Does unix has a command similar to "arj.exe" in Dos which can solve this kind of problems? Thanks in advance! Song Lining From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Aug 24 09:03:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA12565 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from persprog.com (persprog.com [204.215.255.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12546 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 09:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by persprog.com (8.7.5/4.10) id KAA12203; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:50:50 -0500 Received: from dasa(192.2.2.199) by cerberus.ppi.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012201; Sat Aug 24 11:50:39 1996 Received: from DASA/SpoolDir by dasa.ppi.com (Mercury 1.21); 24 Aug 96 11:50:32 +0500 Received: from SpoolDir by DASA (Mercury 1.30); 24 Aug 96 11:50:23 +0500 From: "David Alderman" Organization: Personalized Programming, Inc To: Stefan Esser , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:50:20 +0500 Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Message-ID: <71D1F919F9@dasa.ppi.com> Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:03:44 +0200 (MET DST) > From: Stefan Esser > To: "Rodney W. Grimes" > Cc: se@ZPR.Uni-Koeln.DE (Stefan Esser), michaelv@headcandy.com, > jas@flyingfox.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: SCSI again: Asus SC200 vs. Adaptec 2940 Much deleted here... > There have been real bugs (and real nasty bugs :) in the driver, and > there most probably are still some more (in which driver aren't any ?). > And I'm very interested in further improving the quality of the code. > But I found that I can't do this besides my current job (there are > only so many hours to a day ...) and I'm really wondering whether it > is a good idea to spend all of my vacation on this. > > It's as simple as this ... > > Regards, STefan > Your work is appreciated by many out here! I don't think you should blow your vacation on updating the driver unless that it what you enjoy doing. Some people on this newsgroup need to realize that we are getting immeasurably valuable services for free, and the people who provide them deserve nothing but praise (and the occasional bug report). I am sure Mr Grimes did not intend to denigrate you or your work in any way. He has always been helpful to both myself and the FreeBSD community at large and I certainly don't include him in the group of people who sometimes appear ungrateful for the services rendered by others - quite the contrary. Maybe the next time someone sends a bug to the author of a driver (or any part of the system, for that matter) a short word of thanks is in order for what they have done so far. I better stop now before I end up running for public office! Thanks to everyone who has helped me by making FreeBSD available. ====================================== When philosophy conflicts with reality, choose reality. Dave Alderman -- dave@persprog.com ====================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Aug 24 13:28:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA28795 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA28787 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) id QAA12872 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:25:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199608242025.QAA12872@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: VLB/Cyrix motherboard problems To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:25:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Folks -- this ain't my week for hardware luck. I just picked up a MV035 Vesa motherboard with a Cyrix 586 CPU (120 Mhz) and moved my entire ISA setup to it. I find my AHA1542CF Adaptec SCSI card fails to function in this environment unless I cut the chip to non-turbo speed and disable all cache (internal and 256k external). I know nothing (no, less than nothing about VESA Local bus) and the hardware involved. (I can however, probably draw timing diagrams on a Vax 11/780 SBI). I'm not a techical illiterate -- so pointers to the hardware specs and info on the net to troubleshoot would be useful. The board itself seems to work OK with my non-busmaster IDE controller which was happily coexisting with the 1542 in my ISA 486/33. The memory's new 60ns 2x36 parity. . . I've tried every wait state, bus clock setup, timing option. I verified the motherboard jumpers. Questions: Does an ISA busmaster card need to be in a VESA busmaster slot. (I assumed that the busmaster master/slave labels only applied to VESA cards and ISA busmaster cards could go in any 16 bit slot. (Boy I miss the PDP11 Unibus.) Has anyone else had a problem like this. Symptom: The card is recognized, runs ROM diags on the controller, sizes the scsi bus correctly. It, however, doesn't see the FreeBSD partitions at turbo speed or any speed with Cache on. The OS/2 boot manager comes back and complains that the default partition (FreeBSD on sd0) is not there. If I leave it alone, dos boots, slowly. I'm trying to figure out if it's the CPU, Memory, Cache or bus and motherboard. Suggestions, besides send it all back and eat the 15% restocking fee... Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive, Tinton Falls, NJ 07724, 908-389-3592 | pechter@shell.monmouth.com I'll run Win95 on my box when you pry the keyboard from my cold, dead hands. FreeBSD, OS/2, CP/M, RT11, spoken here. From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Aug 24 22:14:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA06158 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from madmax.keyway.net (madmax.keyway.net [204.140.217.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06153 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from successbbs.com (uucp@localhost) by madmax.keyway.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id WAA22987 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:14:34 -0700 Received: by successbbs.com (ViaUUCP! v1.02 ) id 1572; Sun, 25 Aug 1996 05:19:14 GMT From: freebsd@successbbs.com (Freebsd) Subject: PCI SCSI Installations Woes Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 05:19:06 GMT Organization: Kiwi Computer Services Message-Id: <1527825029-960824221906@successbbs.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org (Freebsd-hardware) Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have an Adaptec 7870 Plug 'n Play Fast SCSI-II motherboard. FreeBSD, is for some reason, not probing/finding the built-in SCSI controller. The closest device to the AIC7870, is the AIC2940, so I disabled all the other devices, except for AHC1, to no avail. Any suggestions? Btw- It is an Iwill P55TV, with a Pentium 166 MHz CPU, 512k Pipelined Burst L2 cache, 32m EDO RAM, and a 3com 5790 PCI ethercard. From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Aug 24 22:15:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hardware Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA06253 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06242 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA17605; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:15:07 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199608250515.WAA17605@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: VLB/Cyrix motherboard problems To: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199608242025.QAA12872@shell.monmouth.com> from Bill/Carolyn Pechter at "Aug 24, 96 04:25:03 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Folks -- this ain't my week for hardware luck. > > I just picked up a MV035 Vesa motherboard with a Cyrix 586 CPU (120 Mhz) > and moved my entire ISA setup to it. Get rid of that Cyrix chip (replace it with either an AMD or Intel) and see if your problem goes away. Also if you can change the Cyrix internal cache mode from Write Back to Write Thru try that. Check BIOS settings for ISA bus speed and make sure you are running the ISA bus between 7.5 and 8.3 MHz. Barring that it sounds as if you have a motherboard that just does not understand bus-mastered cards and how to properly do cache coherency. ... > > Questions: > > Does an ISA busmaster card need to be in a VESA busmaster slot. (I assumed > that the busmaster master/slave labels only applied to VESA cards > and ISA busmaster cards could go in any 16 bit slot. (Boy I miss the > PDP11 Unibus.) ISA busmaster cards should be able to go in any slot, if the motherboard design is correct. If the design is not correct and this is a 1542C or later card it should give you a DMA test error if you run the on board memory access test built into the 1542C and later bioses. > Has anyone else had a problem like this. Symptom: The card is recognized, > runs ROM diags on the controller, sizes the scsi bus correctly. > It, however, doesn't see the FreeBSD partitions at turbo speed or any > speed with Cache on. The OS/2 boot manager comes back and complains that > the default partition (FreeBSD on sd0) is not there. Sounds like a severly broken cache coherency problem :-( > If I leave it alone, dos boots, slowly. :-( > I'm trying to figure out if it's the CPU, Memory, Cache or bus and > motherboard. My syspect is motherboard or CPU. > Suggestions, besides send it all back and eat the 15% restocking fee... Tell the supplier that this board does not work correctly, tell them that it won't work with an adaptec 1542, tell them you would like to exchange it for another model board and are willing to pay the small difference. DON'T give them the 15% restocking fee for selling you a board that does not work correctly. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD