From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Oct 27 01:52:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA15418 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 01:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA15411 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 01:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA18107; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 09:52:06 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA23492; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 09:52:06 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.6/8.6.9) id JAA25043; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 09:44:12 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610270844.JAA25043@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SCSI harddisk trouble: MEDIUM ERROR To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD SCSI list) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 09:44:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de (Michael Beckmann) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Michael Beckmann at "Oct 27, 96 03:45:26 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Michael Beckmann wrote: > Oct 27 03:26:59 zit1 /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:3b13fe asc:11,b > Oct 27 03:26:59 zit1 /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): Unrecovered read error - > recommend reassignment sks:80,32 > I took the disk out of the system, and checked its configuration. AWRE and > ARRE were set. I thought the disk was supposed to automatically reassign > bad blocks in this configuration ? Yep, it's weird that it doesn't. > fsck gave me a decimal block number for the bad block, how can I tell which > block is bad here ? The `info' field in a MEDIUM ERROR response is supposed to be the (hexadecimal) block number of the failure, thus it's the total block 0x3b13fe = 3871742. On the same note, fsck reports the block numbers relative to the start of the filesystem, i think. > Is there a way to run a disk check under FreeBSD, which > finds (and reassigns) bad blocks ? People have been asking for such a tool, but it's a little of work to do it that nobody did yet... > Is there a good way to reassign blocks > automatically, and avoid the problems that follow these medium errors ? ARRE :) Too bad it doesn't work for you. If you can backup the disk, and if it's not a funny one (by some SCSI vendor who's cheating), you can reformat it. I know it at least from an older Seagate disk i used to have, which also experienced occasional medium errors (despite of ARRE -- apparently, the defect list for this zone was full), where reformatting cured the disk until it has recently been pensioned since it grew too small for my needs. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Oct 27 07:53:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA28199 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA28191 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18645; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:52:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199610271552.HAA18645@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI harddisk trouble: MEDIUM ERROR In-Reply-To: <199610270844.JAA25043@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Oct 27, 96 09:44:12 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:52:40 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Michael Beckmann wrote: > > > Oct 27 03:26:59 zit1 /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): MEDIUM ERROR info:3b13fe asc:11,b > > Oct 27 03:26:59 zit1 /kernel: sd0(ncr0:0:0): Unrecovered read error - > > recommend reassignment sks:80,32 > > > I took the disk out of the system, and checked its configuration. AWRE and > > ARRE were set. I thought the disk was supposed to automatically reassign > > bad blocks in this configuration ? > > Yep, it's weird that it doesn't. > > > fsck gave me a decimal block number for the bad block, how can I tell which > > block is bad here ? > > The `info' field in a MEDIUM ERROR response is supposed to be the > (hexadecimal) block number of the failure, thus it's the total block > 0x3b13fe = 3871742. > > On the same note, fsck reports the block numbers relative to the start > of the filesystem, i think. > > > Is there a way to run a disk check under FreeBSD, which > > finds (and reassigns) bad blocks ? > > People have been asking for such a tool, but it's a little of work to > do it that nobody did yet... > > > Is there a good way to reassign blocks > > automatically, and avoid the problems that follow these medium errors ? > > ARRE :) Too bad it doesn't work for you. ARRE CAN NOT REASSIGN A HARD READ ERROR, that would result in data loss, drives are not allowed to reassign the block automatically if it would mean data loss. Try 5 passes of this: dd if=/dev/rsd0 of=/dev/null seek=3871740 count=4 bs=512 if it still gives you the error the data has been loss, it which case a write operation to the block will cause AWRE to fix it: BACK UP ALL DATA BEFORE ATTEMPTING THE FOLLOWING!! dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd0 bs=512 count=1 seek=381742 The a manual fisk just incase this was a meta data block. > If you can backup the disk, and if it's not a funny one (by some SCSI > vendor who's cheating), you can reformat it. I know it at least from > an older Seagate disk i used to have, which also experienced > occasional medium errors (despite of ARRE -- apparently, the defect > list for this zone was full), where reformatting cured the disk until > it has recently been pensioned since it grew too small for my needs. People are very confused about just what AWRE and ARRE can and can not do for you. Since we don't do read after write verify operations if a data hard error occurs in the block during the write that is undeteced during the read there is nothing that AWRE/ARRE can do about it. Data that went bad while stored is one case, like from dropping the disk drive on the floor from 3 feet :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Oct 27 15:32:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25155 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA25146 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from crunch.io.org (crunch.io.org [198.133.36.156]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04501; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:32:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:32:05 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Stefan Esser cc: FREEBSD-SCSI-L Subject: Re: Wonky controller or drive? In-Reply-To: <199610141619.SAA04657@x14.mi.uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Stefan Esser wrote: > > Hmm, I count 3 internal and two external cables ... > I guess each internal cable is some 100cm, actually, > at least I've yet to see a shorter cable being > delivered with a system. (Well, if you made it from > components yourself this is different :) We have our ribbon cables custom made for the position and orientation of our drives. There is enough slack for the cable to remain flexible, but not a lot of it loose inside the case. Anyhow, it turns out it *was* the new 4GB drive I had installed the previous week. It was causing the OS to report transient errors on all the other devices on the bus as well. I suppose this is possible if the SCSI connector on the bad drive degrades the signal on the wires. The 1GB boot drive (on the same physical cable as the 4GB) started showing more and more media errors. A low-level format fixed it up. I swapped in a new 4GB drive and all is well now. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Oct 27 15:33:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25199 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:33:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from post.io.org (post.io.org [198.133.36.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA25194 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 15:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from crunch.io.org (crunch.io.org [198.133.36.156]) by post.io.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04510; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:32:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:32:55 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Wilko Bulte cc: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: High-capacity tape libraries In-Reply-To: <199610141815.TAA00560@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > If you need the docs for the 4700 or 4500 I should have a postscript > file somewhere. Lists the scsi implementation in sufficient detail. I don't suppose you have docs for the 2500XT (75GB/150GB capacity)? I've got one of those on order as our enterprise backup system. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org, taob@ican.net) Senior Systems and Network Administrator, Internet Canada Corp. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-scsi Sun Oct 27 23:51:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA10991 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 23:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA10983 for ; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 23:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA00469; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:50:02 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA20881; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:50:01 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id IAA03071; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:33:12 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610280733.IAA03071@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: strange ncr problems To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD SCSI list) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:33:12 +0100 (MET) Cc: andrew@why.whine.com (Andrew Herdman) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Andrew Herdman at "Oct 27, 96 09:07:30 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andrew Herdman wrote: > Just a question about the ncr driver in the 2.2-960801-SNAP. I don't have -chat is the wrong list for this. Redirected to -scsi. > much access to the machine but the following happens some times at > bootup...... ignore the config screen..... > ncr0 rev 1 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 > ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle > (ncr0:2:0): "NEC D3827 0410" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 > sd0(ncr0:2:0): Direct-Access > sd0(ncr0:2:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > 1033MB (2116800 512 byte sectors) > changing root device to sd0a > spec_getpages: I/O read error > vm_fault: pager input (probably hardware) error, PID 30 failure > uid 0 on /: out of inodes > pid 30 (hostname), uid 0: exited on signal 11 > ncr0: SCSI phase error fixup: CCB already dequeued (0xf0d73c00) > ncr0: restart (ncr dead ?). > sd0(ncr0:2:0): UNIT ATTENTION info?:ffffffff asc:29,0 > sd0(ncr0:2:0): Power on, reset, or bus device reset occurred > , retries:3 > sd0(ncr0:2:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. > sd0(ncr0:2:0): NOT READY info?:ffffffff asc:4,1 > sd0(ncr0:2:0): Logical unit is in process of becoming ready > , retries:2 > sd0(ncr0:2:0): NOT READY info?:ffffffff asc:4,1 > sd0(ncr0:2:0): Logical unit is in process of becoming ready > , retries:1 -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Oct 28 06:37:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA28097 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 06:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip4-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA28079 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 06:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01140; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:16:39 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199610281416.JAA01140@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: SCSI harddisk trouble: MEDIUM ERROR In-Reply-To: <199610271552.HAA18645@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at "Oct 27, 96 07:52:40 am" To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:16:39 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well put - I should have read your message before responding. However: > ... Since we don't do read after write verify operations if > a data hard error occurs in the block during the write that is undeteced > during the read there is nothing that AWRE/ARRE can do about it... Do think this happens often? Are there situations where "write and verify" support would be worth the probable huge performance hit? -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Oct 28 07:03:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29259 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 07:03:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.hda.com (ip11-max1-fitch.zipnet.net [199.232.245.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29249 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 07:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01122; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:06:48 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199610281406.JAA01122@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: SCSI harddisk trouble: MEDIUM ERROR In-Reply-To: <199610270844.JAA25043@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Oct 27, 96 09:44:12 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:06:47 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org, petzi@zit.th-darmstadt.de X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joerg says to Michael Beckmann: > > Is there a way to run a disk check under FreeBSD, which > > finds (and reassigns) bad blocks ? > > People have been asking for such a tool, but it's a little of work to > do it that nobody did yet... > > > Is there a good way to reassign blocks > > automatically, and avoid the problems that follow these medium errors ? > > ARRE :) Too bad it doesn't work for you. This comes up frequently: When the disk can't read the data it can not reassign the block. First try reading the block many times using dd to see if it can read it. It won't: The disk has already tried many times and the driver issued retries as well, so it has already probably done hundreds of retries. If you have recent backups fill the partition with zeros and random data and then restore. When that isn't an option, you must write something to the block and hope it is not an important block. Use "dd" to seek to the bad block and write zeros, then fsck and check out the partition. Here is a sketch of what an "automatic tool" could do. I don't think it is worth it, and such a tool may give people a false sense of having fixed things that they haven't: 1. Unmount the drive; 2. Edit the mode pages to turn off error correction; 3. Read the offending block; 4. Turn on error checking; 5. Write the (probably garbage) data back, causing it to reassign the block or at least store the data; 6. fsck. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Oct 28 07:33:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA01475 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 07:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk [129.215.144.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA01470 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 07:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from richard@localhost) by deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk (8.6.10/8.6.12) id PAA23211; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:33:32 GMT Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:33:32 GMT Message-Id: <199610281533.PAA23211@deacon.cogsci.ed.ac.uk> From: Richard Tobin Subject: Re: SCSI harddisk trouble: MEDIUM ERROR To: Peter Dufault In-Reply-To: Peter Dufault's message of Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:06:47 -0500 (EST) Organization: just say no Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Here is a sketch of what an "automatic tool" could do. > I don't think it is worth it, and such a tool may give > people a false sense of having fixed things that they haven't: As far as I can see, they *have* fixed things, apart from still having a damaged file. Maybe if you add a step > 5. Write the (probably garbage) data back, > causing it to reassign the block or at least store the data; 5.5. Delete the file containing the bad sector (after asking the user, of course) or move it to lost+found. > 6. fsck. Of course, if it's a directory block things are worse. I'd like such a tool; I have a couple of Syquest removable disks with bad sectors and wouldn't be surprised to get more. -- Richard From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Oct 28 10:55:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA20205 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:55:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20200 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA19511; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:55:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199610281855.KAA19511@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: SCSI harddisk trouble: MEDIUM ERROR In-Reply-To: <199610281416.JAA01140@hda.hda.com> from Peter Dufault at "Oct 28, 96 09:16:39 am" To: dufault@hda.hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:55:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well put - I should have read your message before responding. However: > > > ... Since we don't do read after write verify operations if > > a data hard error occurs in the block during the write that is undeteced > > during the read there is nothing that AWRE/ARRE can do about it... > > Do think this happens often? Almost certainly all of the reported ``why doesn't ARRE/AWRE'' handle this bad block are instances of this occuring, most likely a write operation that went haywire and undetected. > Are there situations where > "write and verify" support would be worth the probable huge > performance hit? It would be really nice to have a knob to turn it on and off via sysctl, Novell servers have had that knob since the 2.x days, Vax/VMS has had it for as long as I can remember, yes, I do think this would be worth it if we have a knob to twist. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-scsi Mon Oct 28 11:19:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA22805 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:19:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA22775 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA16767; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:18:02 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610281918.NAA16767@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: SCSI harddisk trouble: MEDIUM ERROR To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:18:01 -0600 (CST) Cc: dufault@hda.hda.com, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610281855.KAA19511@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Oct 28, 96 10:55:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Do think this happens often? > > Almost certainly all of the reported ``why doesn't ARRE/AWRE'' handle this > bad block are instances of this occuring, most likely a write operation that > went haywire and undetected. > > > Are there situations where > > "write and verify" support would be worth the probable huge > > performance hit? > > It would be really nice to have a knob to turn it on and off via sysctl, > Novell servers have had that knob since the 2.x days, Vax/VMS has had > it for as long as I can remember, yes, I do think this would be worth it > if we have a knob to twist. I can not speak with anything close to Rod's level of expertise on this, but I know I would feel more comfortable if we had a knob to twist too. That does not mean I would use it by default, but there are applications where you really are more interested in reliability than performance, and in such circumstances I would use it. Just an opinion, ... JG From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Oct 30 21:28:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA28213 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA28206 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vIpg6-0000ag-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:28:30 -0700 To: scsi@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:28:30 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ I hope this is the right list ] What's the level of support for the Adaptec 2920 in the -current and -stable trees? How about the Adaptec 2825 dual IDE and SCSI card (SCSI side is the only one I'm interested in)? Hw about the Buslogic KT-930? I've also seen something called the Siig 540 or 520. Anybody know about them? Basically, I'm looking for a cheap, supported SCSI card that isn't the Adaptech 1522A for a friend. The above cards were in the computer shopper as being < $180, and I was wondering which is the most stable. The Adaptech 1542CF looks great, but is just out of reach at $199 and up :-(. Warner From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Oct 30 21:42:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA29209 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA29199; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:42:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199610310542.VAA29199@freefall.freebsd.org> To: Warner Losh cc: scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:28:30 MST." Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:42:54 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >[ I hope this is the right list ] > >What's the level of support for the Adaptec 2920 in the -current and >-stable trees? How about the Adaptec 2825 dual IDE and SCSI card >(SCSI side is the only one I'm interested in)? Hw about the Buslogic >KT-930? I've also seen something called the Siig 540 or 520. Anybody >know about them? The answer is "none" to all of the above. Have you looked at the price on the AdvanSys 5142? There is a driver, coming into current very soon (already on the 'SCSI' branch) for these cards. >Warner -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Oct 30 21:52:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA00103 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA29996 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vIq2J-0000eV-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:51:27 -0700 To: "Justin T. Gibbs" Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers Cc: scsi@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:42:54 PST." <199610310542.VAA29199@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <199610310542.VAA29199@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:51:27 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610310542.VAA29199@freefall.freebsd.org> "Justin T. Gibbs" writes: : The answer is "none" to all of the above. Have you looked at the price on : the AdvanSys 5142? There is a driver, coming into current very soon : (already on the 'SCSI' branch) for these cards. None! Yow! OK, I've not seen the AdvanSys 5142. The Siig that I saw may have been a repackaged one of these, because now that I think of it the number on it may have been x542 and x540. It also had a bunch of blank paint over artwork on the card, and labels over all of the chips.... I'll have to double check and see. That may be an option. My friend may still have this card. Then again, I just found for $179 an Adaptech 2940U with "no kit." so maybe that might work for my friend. Warner From owner-freebsd-scsi Wed Oct 30 22:21:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA02627 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:21:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [206.169.44.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA02620 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (ulf@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net [206.169.44.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA11371; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Lamb.net (8.8.2/8.7.6) id WAA10353; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199610310620.WAA10353@Gatekeeper.Lamb.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:20:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from Warner Losh at "Oct 30, 96 10:28:30 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [ I hope this is the right list ] > > What's the level of support for the Adaptec 2920 in the -current and > -stable trees? How about the Adaptec 2825 dual IDE and SCSI card > (SCSI side is the only one I'm interested in)? Hw about the Buslogic > KT-930? I've also seen something called the Siig 540 or 520. Anybody > know about them? > > Basically, I'm looking for a cheap, supported SCSI card that isn't the > Adaptech 1522A for a friend. The above cards were in the computer > shopper as being < $180, and I was wondering which is the most > stable. The Adaptech 1542CF looks great, but is just out of reach at > $199 and up :-(. > > Warner > Look at www.netbuyer.com. I found at least one shop selling the 1542CP for $164. Also look for getting only the controller, if you don't need the kit. Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Lamb Art Internet Services | http://www.Lamb.net/ | http://www.Alameda.net From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 02:29:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA13845 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 02:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA13833 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 02:28:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from zwei.siemens.at by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA29662 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 31 Oct 1996 03:29:17 -0700 Received: from sol1.gud.siemens.co.at (root@[10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18995 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:20:03 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at by sol1.gud.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0vIuF6-00021MC; Thu, 31 Oct 96 11:20 MET Received: by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (1.37.109.16/1.37) id AA031447211; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:20:11 +0100 From: "Hr.Ladavac" Message-Id: <199610311020.AA031447211@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:20:10 +0100 (MEZ) Cc: scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Oct 30, 96 10:28:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk E-mail message from Warner Losh contained: > > > [ I hope this is the right list ] > > What's the level of support for the Adaptec 2920 in the -current and > -stable trees? How about the Adaptec 2825 dual IDE and SCSI card > (SCSI side is the only one I'm interested in)? Hw about the Buslogic > KT-930? I've also seen something called the Siig 540 or 520. Anybody > know about them? > > Basically, I'm looking for a cheap, supported SCSI card that isn't the > Adaptech 1522A for a friend. The above cards were in the computer > shopper as being < $180, and I was wondering which is the most > stable. The Adaptech 1542CF looks great, but is just out of reach at > $199 and up :-(. AFAIK, 2920 is an ex-Future Domain product, PIO only, no better than 1522. Not worth the money nor time, IMHO. If you want cheap SCSI, how about NCR? /Marino > > Warner > From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 07:03:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA12847 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:03:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA12840 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:03:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vIydx-0001D2-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:02:53 -0700 To: "Hr.Ladavac" Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers Cc: scsi@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:20:10 +0100." <199610311020.AA031447211@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> References: <199610311020.AA031447211@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:02:52 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610311020.AA031447211@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> "Hr.Ladavac" writes: : If you want cheap SCSI, how about NCR? Any "brand names" that have a NCR chip on them? Or is this only for those controllers that are built into motherboards? Warner From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 07:29:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA14433 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA14426 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:29:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sol1.gud.siemens.co.at (root@[10.1.143.100]) by zwei.siemens.at (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25477 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:28:00 +0100 (MET) Received: from ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at by sol1.gud.siemens.co.at with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7 for ) id m0vIz38-00021NC; Thu, 31 Oct 96 16:28 MET Received: by ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (1.37.109.16/1.37) id AA239535687; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:28:07 +0100 From: "Hr.Ladavac" Message-Id: <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:28:06 +0100 (MEZ) Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Oct 31, 96 08:02:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk E-mail message from Warner Losh contained: > > In message <199610311020.AA031447211@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> > "Hr.Ladavac" writes: > : If you want cheap SCSI, how about NCR? > > Any "brand names" that have a NCR chip on them? Or is this only for > those controllers that are built into motherboards? ASUS SC200 (or something like that) if you require a brand name. Otherwise, any run-of-the-mill NCR *810 controller will do, as they are nothing more than the chip, a connector, and pcb traces binding them together. Virtually no OEM motherboards are delivered with SCSI on-board; the controllers I'm talking about are all PCI cards. Stefan Esser's driver is *very* good :) Your motherboard BIOS must have support for NCR 810 to work--all ASUS' I know do. Otherwise you need an 815, which are not that easy to find (since nobody needs them :) A generic card costs about USD 50 wholesale (here in Austria; probably less in USA). /Marino > > Warner > From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 07:31:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA14657 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:31:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA14650 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 07:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vIz5f-0001Gp-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:31:31 -0700 To: "Hr.Ladavac" Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers Cc: scsi@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:28:06 +0100." <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> References: <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:31:31 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> "Hr.Ladavac" writes: : Your motherboard BIOS must have support for NCR 810 to work--all ASUS' : I know do. Otherwise you need an 815, which are not that easy to find : (since nobody needs them :) OK. I'll take a look. Thanks for the info! Warner From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 08:40:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA19153 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19145 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:40:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA27857; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:39:31 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610311639.KAA27857@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (Hr.Ladavac) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:39:31 -0600 (CST) Cc: imp@village.org, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> from "Hr.Ladavac" at Oct 31, 96 04:28:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > E-mail message from Warner Losh contained: > > > > In message <199610311020.AA031447211@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> > > "Hr.Ladavac" writes: > > : If you want cheap SCSI, how about NCR? > > > > Any "brand names" that have a NCR chip on them? Or is this only for > > those controllers that are built into motherboards? > > ASUS SC200 (or something like that) if you require a brand name. > Otherwise, any run-of-the-mill NCR *810 controller will do, as they are > nothing more than the chip, a connector, and pcb traces binding them > together. And terminators... Get the SC-200's. A local place found some cheapies for 2/3 the price, at first they seemed to be OK, but some were delivered with termination resistor packs inserted backwards, some exhibited strange problems, etc. The connectors were also not "right angle" to the PC board, so you have to pull the darn things out of the slot to putz with the cables. The SC-200's have a jumper setting for termination and no resistor packs to misplace or get backwards. Given the price of these things ($60-$70ish, wholesale) there is little reason to try to save pennies on such an important part of your system. I remember even recently that Adaptec 1542CF's were around $200 and 2940's were more than that. Get three SC-200's for that price, split up your SCSI load, and you have enough left over to get beer and pizza's... I do NOT object to inexpensive products! But I do object to stuff that is SO cheap it doesn't work. Other cheap PCI stuff I have had great experiences with: Kingston KNE-40T 10baseT Ethernet controllers, DEC 21041 based, about $40 wholesale these days. Soon to try the Kingston 100baseT units which are about $80 wholesale. Not so cheap (but still good schtuff)... It is hard to go wrong with the SMC EtherPower 10/100 card, maybe about $140 wholesale. The Adaptec 3940 dual channel SCSI controller... rather pricey, but saves slots. ... JG From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 08:44:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA19353 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:44:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19348 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA27866; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:43:10 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610311643.KAA27866@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:43:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Oct 31, 96 08:31:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> > "Hr.Ladavac" writes: > : Your motherboard BIOS must have support for NCR 810 to work--all ASUS' > : I know do. Otherwise you need an 815, which are not that easy to find > : (since nobody needs them :) > > OK. I'll take a look. Thanks for the info! I forgot to mention in my last message, too busy talking... Check out the Mr. BIOS Web site. Even if your motherboard BIOS does not support the NCR BIOS, there may be some ways to get around this. I know that the Intel Endeavor boards do not support it, but with a little digging on the Mr. BIOS site, we found a new BIOS plus instructions on how to integrate the NCR BIOS with it. Very nifty. http://www.mrbios.com/, I believe. The NCR BIOS is now called something else, by the way, but I can't remember what. ... JG From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 08:55:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA20102 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA20093 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA04790; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:54:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199610311654.IAA04790@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers In-Reply-To: <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> from "Hr.Ladavac" at "Oct 31, 96 04:28:06 pm" To: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (Hr.Ladavac) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:54:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: imp@village.org, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, scsi@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > E-mail message from Warner Losh contained: > > > > In message <199610311020.AA031447211@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> > > "Hr.Ladavac" writes: > > : If you want cheap SCSI, how about NCR? > > > > Any "brand names" that have a NCR chip on them? Or is this only for > > those controllers that are built into motherboards? > > ASUS SC200 (or something like that) if you require a brand name. > Otherwise, any run-of-the-mill NCR *810 controller will do, as they are > nothing more than the chip, a connector, and pcb traces binding them > together. They are not all equal, the ``cheap'' ones use passive termination, the good ones (ASUS SC-200 and many others) use active termination. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 09:03:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA20701 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:03:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20690 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vJ0WE-0001Qi-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:03:02 -0700 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at (Hr.Ladavac), scsi@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:54:17 PST." <199610311654.IAA04790@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> References: <199610311654.IAA04790@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:03:02 -0700 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610311654.IAA04790@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> "Rodney W. Grimes" writes: : They are not all equal, the ``cheap'' ones use passive termination, : the good ones (ASUS SC-200 and many others) use active termination. That brings up a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long time. Can someone tell me the difference between active and passive termination, or point me at something that does? In addition, why would I want one over the other? Warner From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 09:23:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA22175 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22134 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:22:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id SAA02492; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:21:33 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA00283; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:21:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id SAA15551; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:00:46 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610311700.SAA15551@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD SCSI list) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:00:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Warner Losh at "Oct 30, 96 10:28:30 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Warner Losh wrote: > Basically, I'm looking for a cheap, supported SCSI card that isn't the > Adaptech 1522A for a friend. The above cards were in the computer > shopper as being < $180, and I was wondering which is the most > stable. The Adaptech 1542CF looks great, but is just out of reach at > $199 and up :-(. AHA1540A One would think you can get'em cheap these days. ;-) Unless you've got too old firmware (no scatter/gather), even these old parts work fine. The one in my scratch box is 7 years old now. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 09:28:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA22623 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22609 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA00874 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:24:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id SAA02496; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:21:34 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id SAA00286; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:21:34 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id SAA15579; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:03:29 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610311703.SAA15579@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD SCSI list) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:03:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from Warner Losh at "Oct 31, 96 08:31:31 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Warner Losh wrote: > : Your motherboard BIOS must have support for NCR 810 to work--all ASUS' > : I know do. Otherwise you need an 815, which are not that easy to find > : (since nobody needs them :) > > OK. I'll take a look. Thanks for the info! The sad thing is that not all mainboard manufacturers announce that they support the NCR controllers even though they actually do. Probably some of them don't even know that they're supporting it... because they've simply bought the BIOS from a 3rd-party vendor. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 10:04:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA24833 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24828 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA28103; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:03:07 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199610311803.MAA28103@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:03:07 -0600 (CST) Cc: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, scsi@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Oct 31, 96 10:03:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199610311654.IAA04790@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> "Rodney > W. Grimes" writes: > : They are not all equal, the ``cheap'' ones use passive termination, > : the good ones (ASUS SC-200 and many others) use active termination. > > That brings up a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long > time. Can someone tell me the difference between active and passive > termination, or point me at something that does? In addition, why > would I want one over the other? A passive terminator connects each data line via a 220 ohm resistor to TERMPWR (+5v) and via a 330 ohm resistor to ground. This prevents signal "bounce" at the end of the wire, much like Ethernet 10base2 terminators or many other signals that work at high frequencies. The disadvantage is that TERMPWR may not be a real good +5v source... and this can cause some fluctuation of ALL your SCSI bus signals! An active terminator uses a regulator to provide a "better" 2.85 volt regulated source and then wires each signal to this stable voltage source. This is OK as long as TERMPWR isn't total garbage (but at that point you are in other kinds of pain anyways). A FPT (Forced Perfect Termination) terminator uses multiple regulators and some diodes to perform some clamping tricks to help minimize overshoot and undershoot. Don't ask me for more of an explanation as I only understand the general idea of what it is trying to accomplish. A SLICK terminator is some sort of modified FPT terminator that I do not know much about (but I've seen 'em). Anybody know of any sources for SLICK terminators? ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Software Engineer, UNIX/Network Hacker, Etc. 414/362-3308 Marquette Electronics, Inc. - R&D - Milwaukee, WI jgreco@mei.com From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 10:24:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25733 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25728 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA04306; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:22:10 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA03480; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:22:10 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.2/8.6.9) id TAA16208; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:17:20 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610311817.TAA16208@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: probing scsi bus after boot? To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD SCSI list) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:17:19 +0100 (MET) Cc: jlk@pavilion.co.uk (Joe Karthauser) Reply-To: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD SCSI list) In-Reply-To: <199610311703.RAA08772@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> from Joe Karthauser at "Oct 31, 96 05:03:43 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Moved to the freebsd-scsi list) As Joe Karthauser wrote: > Is it possible to reprobe the scsi bus after a reboot for allow for > drive swapping? I guess that there must be some support for that in > there somewhere. There's ``scsi -r'', though it used to be horribly broken for quite some time. It worked fine in FreeBSD 1.1.5.1, and started to be ok again in -current of not too long ago (about a month or two). _However_, drive _swapping_ is probably unsupported. I think the sd driver gets royally screwed if you exchange the drive that was present at boot time by one with another total number of blocks later. Even the `od' driver (that is supposed to catch up with such situations) doesn't do it right now, but there's a patch pending in one of the PRs that allows for it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 10:26:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25877 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:26:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25861 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA04943; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199610311824.KAA04943@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers In-Reply-To: <199610311639.KAA27857@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from Joe Greco at "Oct 31, 96 10:39:31 am" To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:24:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, imp@village.org, scsi@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ... > Other cheap PCI stuff I have had great experiences with: > > Kingston KNE-40T 10baseT Ethernet controllers, DEC 21041 based, about $40 > wholesale these days. These are on my qualified products list and in stock... not the KNE-40T, but the KNE-40BT which is both 10BaseT and 10Base2 (BNC for those not educated in the 10Base numbers): XX. TMG KIN17651 Kingston KNE40BT/6 PCI Enet Card, 10BT/10B2 DC21041 $ 56.00 These are OEM bulk cards, no drivers... > Soon to try the Kingston 100baseT units which are about $80 wholesale. Don't bother, already tried them, they don't like our driver :-(. > Not so cheap (but still good schtuff)... Actually very cheap compared to the SMC board... > It is hard to go wrong with the SMC EtherPower 10/100 card, maybe about > $140 wholesale. I have a D-Link card that works great: XX. TMG DLD16217 DFE-500TX DFE 10/100MB DEC 21140 ethernet $ 83.00 > The Adaptec 3940 dual channel SCSI controller... rather pricey, but saves > slots. :-) -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 11:02:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28151 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.hp.com (relay.hp.com [15.255.152.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28146 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by relay.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA223088531; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:02:12 -0800 Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA256048530; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:02:11 -0800 Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA268188529; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:02:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199610311902.AA268188529@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> To: Warner Losh Cc: scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers Reply-To: darrylo@sr.hp.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:31:31 MST." Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:02:08 -0800 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199610311528.AA239535687@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at> > "Hr.Ladavac" writes: > : Your motherboard BIOS must have support for NCR 810 to work--all ASUS' > : I know do. Otherwise you need an 815, which are not that easy to find > : (since nobody needs them :) > > OK. I'll take a look. Thanks for the info! Just FYI, here's a partial list of NCR/Symbios-based boards (I haven't verified all of this, but I believe it to be correct): Data Technology 3130B (815-based, with BIOS). Note that the "3130B" has a BIOS, whereas the "3130" doesn't. Tekram DC-390U, DC-390F, & DC-390W (The 390U and 390F are 875-based, and I think the 290W is based upon the 825. However, you want to *AVOID* the plain DC-390, as this is based upon an AMD chip, and not the NCR/Symbios one.) ASUS SC-200 (810-based, without BIOS) Tyan S1365 (825-based, fast/wide SCSI, with BIOS) I don't know if all of these are available in Europe, though. -- Darryl Okahata Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 11:34:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00902 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA00869 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from current1.whistle.com (current1.whistle.com [207.76.205.22]) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id LAA21169; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:31:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3278FE9E.167EB0E7@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:31:42 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD SCSI list CC: Joe Karthauser Subject: Re: probing scsi bus after boot? References: <199610311817.TAA16208@uriah.heep.sax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch wrote: > > (Moved to the freebsd-scsi list) > > As Joe Karthauser wrote: > > > Is it possible to reprobe the scsi bus after a reboot for allow for > > drive swapping? I guess that there must be some support for that in > > there somewhere. > > There's ``scsi -r'', though it used to be horribly broken for quite > some time. It worked fine in FreeBSD 1.1.5.1, and started to be ok > again in -current of not too long ago (about a month or two). > > _However_, drive _swapping_ is probably unsupported. I think the sd > driver gets royally screwed if you exchange the drive that was present > at boot time by one with another total number of blocks later. Even > the `od' driver (that is supposed to catch up with such situations) > doesn't do it right now, but there's a patch pending in one of the PRs > that allows for it. > you shouldn't need to reprobe to swap drives.. teh new drive will return a "unit attention" error when first powered up and that will invalidate all information on the drive. the drive will then be inaccessible untill ALL references to it have been closed when that has happenned, ist should be possible to re-mount the new drive. (all in theory only mind you.. I haven't tried it, but it works that way for removable drives) julian From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 13:41:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09709 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from inet.uni-c.dk (inet.uni-c.dk [130.228.6.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09703 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from lgb109.ppp.uni-c.dk (lgb109.ppp.uni-c.dk [130.228.6.109]) by inet.uni-c.dk (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05650 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:41:00 +0100 (MET) Received: by lgb109.ppp.uni-c.dk with Microsoft Mail id <01BBC77C.5D564E70@lgb109.ppp.uni-c.dk>; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:39:23 +0100 Message-ID: <01BBC77C.5D564E70@lgb109.ppp.uni-c.dk> From: Soren Brandt To: "'FreeBSD-scsi@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:36:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From owner-freebsd-scsi Thu Oct 31 14:30:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-freebsd-scsi Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13087 for freebsd-scsi-outgoing; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:30:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13076 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA06371 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for scsi@freebsd.org); Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:29:11 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA02295; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:38:38 +0100 (MET) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199610312138.WAA02295@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: FreeBSD support for Adaptec/Buslogic drivers To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:38:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com, lada@ws2301.gud.siemens.co.at, scsi@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Warner Losh" at Oct 31, 96 10:03:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Warner Losh wrote... > > In message <199610311654.IAA04790@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> "Rodney > W. Grimes" writes: > : They are not all equal, the ``cheap'' ones use passive termination, > : the good ones (ASUS SC-200 and many others) use active termination. > > That brings up a question that I've been meaning to ask for a long > time. Can someone tell me the difference between active and passive > termination, or point me at something that does? In addition, why > would I want one over the other? The faster and or longer the bus, the more you want active terminators. Passive terminators are not more that a pair of resistors, one connected to +5V (TERMPOWER), the other connected to ground. The 2 other ends of the resistors hookup to eachother and the SCSI bus line. Active terminators come in different incarnations, you even have completely silicon (chip) variants. The idea is that they contain more or less elaborate electronics (clamp diodes, voltage regulators etc) that give a cleaner bus signal, reducing under/overshoot etc. Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda --------------------------------------------------------------------------