From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 02:09:50 1997
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From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca>
To: "Brian L. Heess" <brian@krumm.commline.com>
cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: anybody ported /usr/bin/fetch to SunOS? 
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On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Brian L. Heess wrote:

> > > Just wondering, as it's a handy utility and I'd rather not waste time if I
> > > don't have to.

If all you want is the http and ftp downloads in one package, you
might consider trying to port ftp(1) from OpenBSD.  Supposedly
it's a rough equivalent to fetch(1). 


--
Outnumbered?  Maybe.  Outspoken?  Never!
tIM...HOEk


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 02:30:35 1997
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From: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>, ben@narcissus.ml.org,
        nate@trout.mt.sri.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking 
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On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> That's not to say that human behavior cannot be categorized - you do
> have all your basic fear response, sex drive, and pack instinct
> indices to rely on when you're trying to predict things such as
> whether one group is likely to jump on another anytime soon, and
> they're generally not far wrong.  Where it falls down as a science is
> in basically the same place that political science breaks down - on
> the smaller (and I daresay more practical) scale where the brownian
> motion of individual human quirks is too great an influence on events
> to allow a linear set of rules to operate reliably.  In other words,
> you just have to pick a basic direction and roll with the random
> punches as they come from all conceivable directions.

This, of course, proves what we have all known --- namely that
quantum physics is not science.  Now that it's not a science we
can start making some of those excess English majors study it and
save our precious Math majors for real work.


> Heh, somehow I doubt that the greatest periods of accelleration or
> decelleration in FreeBSD's future will have much to do with its
> organizing principles.  I suspect that most people will continue to go
> on in much the same way they have these last 3-4 years, quietly fixing
> bugs and adding features to the system as they deem it appropriate.
> Where the greatest potential changes lie are in passing comets - some
> event external to the project sucking one or more project members
> away, or perhaps more positively funding its development in some
> specific direction.  Who knows?  Least of all, I suspect, Terry. :-)

I believe it was John Dyson (although if someone wishes to
correct me, they are free to do so) who at one point wrote that
if he left the project for whatever reason, he felt confident
that someone would appear and replace him.  Backing up his
suggestion that people magically appear is the recent
gnats-meister incident.  It's filled by mpp now, but before
scrappy had been making noises about it, and still before there
had still been people who made it work.  Without Mike P. it would
still exist, and would still continue existing into the future.

All of this suggests that the funding situation of FreeBSD is
more stable and less dependant on the whims of individual
developers than your comet analogy suggests. 


--
Outnumbered?  Maybe.  Outspoken?  Never!
tIM...HOEk


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 02:47:38 1997
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:40:25 +0100
From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: mark@quickweb.com (Mark Mayo)
Cc: jhk@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Picture for Walnut Creek Catalog?
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As Mark Mayo wrote:

> So, I propose a new desktop - one that's more alive, yet looks more
> professional than the in your face Linux pic..  I'm sure someone must have
> a great looking desktop! For starters, check out mine at:
> http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark/FreeBSD

I love it!
-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 02:49:38 1997
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To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch)
cc: mark@quickweb.com (Mark Mayo), jhk@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Picture for Walnut Creek Catalog? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:40:25 +0100."
             <Mutt.19970223114025.j@uriah.heep.sax.de> 
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:49:10 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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Well, the WC CDROM folks looked at the picture, thought "huh. we can
do better" and they're now working on a new FreeBSD screenshot for the
catalog, that's all I can say. ;-)

					Jordan

> As Mark Mayo wrote:
> 
> > So, I propose a new desktop - one that's more alive, yet looks more
> > professional than the in your face Linux pic..  I'm sure someone must have
> > a great looking desktop! For starters, check out mine at:
> > http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark/FreeBSD
> 
> I love it!
> -- 
> cheers, J"org
> 
> joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
> Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 07:13:19 1997
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From: Mark Mayo <mark@quickweb.com>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: Joerg Wunsch <joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de>, jhk@FreeBSD.ORG,
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Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Picture for Walnut Creek Catalog? 
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On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> Well, the WC CDROM folks looked at the picture, thought "huh. we can
> do better" and they're now working on a new FreeBSD screenshot for the
> catalog, that's all I can say. ;-)
> 
> 					Jordan

Excellent! I look forward to their new picture! That's exactly the
response I was hoping for :-) It doesn't hurt to sell FreeBSD a little
harder, and a sexy screen shot is sure to help (at least a little).

-Mark

> 
> > As Mark Mayo wrote:
> > 
> > > So, I propose a new desktop - one that's more alive, yet looks more
> > > professional than the in your face Linux pic..  I'm sure someone must have
> > > a great looking desktop! For starters, check out mine at:
> > > http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark/FreeBSD
> > 
> > I love it!
> > -- 
> > cheers, J"org
> > 
> > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
> > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
> 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mark Mayo		  				mark@quickweb.com       
 RingZero Comp.  	  		   http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Nature shows that with the growth of intelligence comes increased capacity 
 for pain, and it is only with the highest degree of intelligence that 
 suffering reaches its supreme point.  -- Arthur Schopenhauer


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 09:43:04 1997
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From: "Francisco Reyes" <reyesf@super.zippo.com>
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On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:49:10 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>> As Mark Mayo wrote:
>> > a great looking desktop! For starters, check out mine at:
>> > http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark/FreeBSD

>Well, the WC CDROM folks looked at the picture, thought "huh. we can
>do better" and they're now working on a new FreeBSD screenshot for the
>catalog, that's all I can say. ;-)
>	Jordan

If they could do better why didn do it before.? :)

Along differerent lines I was wondering why doesn't WC do a Business
subscription?
1 Year prepaid by check upgrades. Make it $100 in case 3 upgrades are
done in a year.
I am tired of my FreeBSD CD been borrowed at work, but I don't want
to pay from my credit card for several subscriptions and then have to
wait for the reimbursements.

If $100 is not enough they can make it whatever is viable for them.
This will add additional CD sales and will give WC a better idea of
who their commercial customers are. Perhaps they can have a special
catalog for such clients.


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 10:34:05 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
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Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:28:24 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, ben@narcissus.ml.org, nate@trout.mt.sri.com,
        chat@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <12622.856657876@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 22, 97 04:31:16 pm
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> That's not to say that human behavior cannot be categorized - you do
> have all your basic fear response, sex drive, and pack instinct
> indices to rely on when you're trying to predict things such as
> whether one group is likely to jump on another anytime soon, and
> they're generally not far wrong.  Where it falls down as a science is
> in basically the same place that political science breaks down - on
> the smaller (and I daresay more practical) scale where the brownian
> motion of individual human quirks is too great an influence on events
> to allow a linear set of rules to operate reliably.  In other words,
> you just have to pick a basic direction and roll with the random
> punches as they come from all conceivable directions.

Someone I respect very much once said "God does not play dice with the
universe".

Brownian motion in gasses and in fluids are *precisely* where
application of statistical (rather than linear) mathematics
becomes useful.  There is an entire field of study, fluidics, that
is dedicated to the study and prediction of such motions.

I would also argue that if you can "predict things such as whether
one group is likely to jump on another anytime soon", and be "generally
not far wrong", then you can predict similarly for the class of
activity -- for instance, whether a subgroup is likely to schism
from the main group, any time soon.  At one point in the recent past,
I not only predicted the cusp, I overtly acted to influence the
outcome.  In general, I can act with a higher degree of finesse, but
I have to say, the liberty to finesse is proportional to the length
of fuse remaining, and it's not getting any longer.


I tend to lump Monte-Carlo algorithms, chaos theory, fuzzy systems
theory, and gross application of Clifford Algebras and Chebenchev
Polynomials into the category "statistical tools".  Perhaps this
is an error in tool classification on my part, but the fact remains
that the tools are useful in modelling society-society interactions
in the large, and group dynamics -- the punishment/reward criteria
for individual group member behaviour modification -- in microcosm.


> > Sociology *can* be a science, since it *can* predict, as long as it's
> > applied statistically.  Most sociologists fail to apply it statistically.
> 
> Oh sure, just apply more-a them-there statistics and all the numbers
> come out right.  Why didn't they think of that! :-)
> 
> Needless to say, I heartily disagree.

There is, it seems, a general non-mathematician's distrust of
statistics, which I blame on statistics being used on intentionally
slanted raw data, typically when the tool is employed by non-scientists.

We can argue whether or not statistics are a valid tool, or we can
step back and note the relative financial success of insurance
companies and casinos, who rely on the application of statistics the
tool to actuarial and mathematical modelling data, respectively, to
have achieved that success.  There can be no doubt that the tool,
when properly applied, works.


> > I can predict that a social construct like FreeBSD operate in a certain
> > fashion based on its organizing principles, based on observation of
> > other social constructs with similar organizing principles.  In the
> > same way I can predict a rock will fall on Mars by observing that rocks
> 
> Heh, somehow I doubt that the greatest periods of accelleration or
> decelleration in FreeBSD's future will have much to do with its
> organizing principles.  I suspect that most people will continue to go
> on in much the same way they have these last 3-4 years, quietly fixing
> bugs and adding features to the system as they deem it appropriate.
> Where the greatest potential changes lie are in passing comets - some
> event external to the project sucking one or more project members
> away, or perhaps more positively funding its development in some
> specific direction.

And you arrived at these doubts and suspicions utilizing what rational
mathematical and scientific basis?

In the larger US society, the current big hype attempting to become a
social motivator on the order of JFK's moon-landing effort, now that
the cold war is no longer useful in that capacity, is protecting the
Earth from passing comets and asteroids.  Organisms are inherently
lazy, and need to have their fight-or-flight reflexes triggered to
motivate them to any action whatsoever.  Especially social organisms,
which are made up of lazy individual organisms.

Nevertheless, even though the underlying motivations of the advocates
may be suspect, protecting our one basket in which we have irrationally
chosen to keep all our eggs is an intuitively obvious need.

Can you argue that, if you are right, and the danger is in the passing
comets (and asteroids), that FreeBSD should not likewise defend itself?


Immature religions (such as the FreeBSD group) tend to discourage
religious scholarship in much the same way that the Catholic Church
reacted to Galileo's revelation that the Earth was not at the center
of the universe: anything which could not be immediately reconciled
with their existing dogma must be suppressed and ignored until it
could be reconciled.  What pissed off the power structure was not
the revelation, but that it had been published in Italian ("Principia
Mathematica") instead of in Latin, the language of the power structure,
where it could take time to spin-doctor it before releasing it in
Italian.  In many ways, publication on the Internet holds the same
dangers for existing political power structures that publication in
Italian held for the Catholic church.


I am reminded of the Reagan/Bush era political commercials claiming
that "the democrats are out of gas".  In them, a passenger is trying
ever more deperately to get the driver to pull over at each gas station
they approach, without success.  The driver dismisses the passenger as
alarmist, mumbling "don't worry..." and "plenty of gas..." and similar
platitudes, until the car jerks to a fuel-less stop, a look of utter
astonishment and dismay on the drivers face.


> Who knows?  Least of all, I suspect, Terry. :-)

You're right; I don't know.  I don't even claim to have identified
all of the potential threat vectors.  Which is why I suggest you guard
against all the identifiable possibilities by building defenses now.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 10:41:11 1997
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Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Picture for Walnut Creek Catalog?
To: mark@quickweb.com (Mark Mayo)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 18:40:20 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970223101010.1205A-100000@vinyl.quickweb.com> from "Mark Mayo" at Feb 23, 97 10:13:53 am
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> 
> On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> 
> > Well, the WC CDROM folks looked at the picture, thought "huh. we can
> > do better" and they're now working on a new FreeBSD screenshot for the
> > catalog, that's all I can say. ;-)
> > 
> > 					Jordan
> 
> Excellent! I look forward to their new picture! That's exactly the
> response I was hoping for :-) It doesn't hurt to sell FreeBSD a little
> harder, and a sexy screen shot is sure to help (at least a little).
> 
> -Mark
> 
> > 
> > > As Mark Mayo wrote:
> > > 
> > > > So, I propose a new desktop - one that's more alive, yet looks more
> > > > professional than the in your face Linux pic..  I'm sure someone must have
> > > > a great looking desktop! For starters, check out mine at:
> > > > http://vinyl.quickweb.com/mark/FreeBSD
> > > 
> > > I love it!
> > > -- 
> > > cheers, J"org
> > > 
> > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
> > > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)
> > 
> 

Well, I've got a nice desktop I'd like to show, but I've not got my web set
up right now. I'll tell you when it is (a few days?), but it uses a nice
window-manager called Enlightenment. Only available as alpha sources right now
 (it's being replaced by an improved version), and not exactly 'professional,
not in-your-face', but definitely my preferred window-manager (every window
has a shaped border. Nice, but slow...)
Coming soon... 


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 10:41:21 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702231834.LAA06501@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: robmel@innotts.co.uk (Robin Melville)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:34:54 -0700 (MST)
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> >I can predict that a social construct like FreeBSD operate in a certain
> >fashion based on its organizing principles, based on observation of
> >other social constructs with similar organizing principles.  In the
> >same way I can predict a rock will fall... [etc.]
> 
> This is a man who has never heard of chaos theory... FreeBSD obviously
> works solely upon the basis of strange attractors :)

Chaos theory allows us to predict spontaneous organization.  That's
the purpose of chaos theory.  Strange attractors are identified using
statistical methods, in many instances.

Because something is based on chaos does not make it unpredictable;
you nearly go so far as to admit that yourself.

Consider, now, any set of strange attractors as, itself, a chaotic
system.  Now identify the second order strange attractors motivating
the first order strange attractors chaotic relationship.

This is what I have identified, in the past, as "an order of fractal
complexity" in a social system.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 10:56:59 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702231850.LAA06545@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Tim Vanderhoek)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 11:50:46 -0700 (MST)
Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, ben@narcissus.ml.org,
        nate@trout.mt.sri.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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> This, of course, proves what we have all known --- namely that
> quantum physics is not science.  Now that it's not a science we
> can start making some of those excess English majors study it and
> save our precious Math majors for real work.

Either you are a physicist and you are joking, or you are a non-physicist
and you are ignorant of the facts.

Using quantum mechanics, I can predict the color and other properties
of atoms and molecules.  I can also model relativistically invariant
P-P, N-P, and N-N collisions which result in pair production, and
disallow some results on the basis of a soloution of Feynman-Dyson
diagrams, and end up doing little things.  Like predicting W particles
14 years before their existance is confirmed by a high energy collider
at CERN.

Quantum mechanics is not necessary for many types of investigation,
and there are alternate explanations of the mathematics which don't
require quarks.  Nevertheless, the mathematics provides a usefully
predictive model of the way the universe works, regardless of what
story you tell to justify it.


> I believe it was John Dyson (although if someone wishes to
> correct me, they are free to do so) who at one point wrote that
> if he left the project for whatever reason, he felt confident
> that someone would appear and replace him.  Backing up his
> suggestion that people magically appear is the recent
> gnats-meister incident.  It's filled by mpp now, but before
> scrappy had been making noises about it, and still before there
> had still been people who made it work.  Without Mike P. it would
> still exist, and would still continue existing into the future.
> 
> All of this suggests that the funding situation of FreeBSD is
> more stable and less dependant on the whims of individual
> developers than your [Jordan's] comet analogy suggests. 

My point is that the project will steady-state at a given energy
level.  If John did leave, why should we be satisfied with *one*
someone stepping up to the task?

The "gnats-meister incident" is a good case in point: if I have a
track that can accommodate two slot cars, I can never race more
than two slot cars at a time, no matter how many people want to
play (and have the cars in hand to do it).  To continue the analogy
to its conclusion, I've only been suggesting that FreeBSD should
build a bigger track, and that Linux runs multiple tracks, each
track with the equivalent to FreeBSD two-slot limit.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 11:13:49 1997
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From: Mr M P Searle <csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 19:09:23 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702231828.LAA06486@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 23, 97 11:28:24 am
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> 
> > That's not to say that human behavior cannot be categorized - you do
> > have all your basic fear response, sex drive, and pack instinct
> > indices to rely on when you're trying to predict things such as
> > whether one group is likely to jump on another anytime soon, and
> > they're generally not far wrong.  Where it falls down as a science is
> > in basically the same place that political science breaks down - on
> > the smaller (and I daresay more practical) scale where the brownian
> > motion of individual human quirks is too great an influence on events
> > to allow a linear set of rules to operate reliably.  In other words,
> > you just have to pick a basic direction and roll with the random
> > punches as they come from all conceivable directions.
> 
> Someone I respect very much once said "God does not play dice with the
> universe".

I think the reply to that was 'Einstein, stop telling God what to do'...
:)


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 11:17:22 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702231915.MAA16600@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr M P Searle)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 12:15:10 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <8785.199702231909@figroll.csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "Mr M P Searle" at Feb 23, 97 07:09:23 pm
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> > Someone I respect very much once said "God does not play dice with the
> > universe".
> 
> I think the reply to that was 'Einstein, stop telling God what to do'...
> :)

I think Einstein was right, whether or not God arrived at the idea
independently.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 11:48:15 1997
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Message-Id: <199702231943.OAA14020@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:43:40 -0500 (EST)
Cc: hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca, jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org,
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> 
> My point is that the project will steady-state at a given energy
> level.  If John did leave, why should we be satisfied with *one*
> someone stepping up to the task?
> 
In fact, I would be interested in even more collaboration on the
VM code, for example.  There is no reason that it just has to
be that DG and I have been doing most of it.  We have been getting
good help from others (incl. PHK for ideas, <alc@cs.rice.edu> and
others.)  As time goes on, much of the code that I have written will
be replaced, with other, greater ideas, and it is likely that the
person who does it will have worked or discussed it with me before
it happens.  But perhaps, I will have been long-gone, and the person
says to himself (like I said about the terribly broken clock algorithm),
"why in the h*ll did they do it that way?".

None of us is replaceable, and as long as we can manage the development
without it becoming chaotic or negative personality traits damaging
cooperation, we can continue to grow, slowly and deliberately.  Frankly,
adding more noise to our discussions is distracting.  Slow, deliberate
growth is preferable to someone who "thinks" he/she knows it all being
added and confusing things.  I think that we are doing pretty well in
that regard.  The FreeBSD team members (both -core and other contributors)
appear to take their trust seriously, and that seems to work fairly well
with only a few breakdowns once in a while.  But, what project doesn't
have problems here and there?

Of course, the conservativism(sp?) above has to be tempered so that
new, truely innovative ideas don't get squashed.

Oh well, I really don't know why I piped up on this discussion, other
than procrastinating working on the Lite/2 ext2fs....  Back to work!!! :-).

John


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 13:37:28 1997
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Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 21:33:32 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702231915.MAA16600@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 23, 97 12:15:10 pm
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> 
> > > Someone I respect very much once said "God does not play dice with the
> > > universe".
> > 
> > I think the reply to that was 'Einstein, stop telling God what to do'...
> > :)
> 
> I think Einstein was right, whether or not God arrived at the idea
> independently.

Maybe you missed the point - the quote was from one of the first quantum
physicists. Bohr, I think, but I'm not sure, so I didn't put a name.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 14:28:15 1997
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
Message-Id: <199702232228.OAA05509@freefall.freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr M P Searle)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:28:05 -0800 (PST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <10834.199702232133@garvock.csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "Mr M P Searle" at Feb 23, 97 09:33:32 pm
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Mr M P Searle wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > > Someone I respect very much once said "God does not play dice with the
> > > > universe".
> > > 
> > > I think the reply to that was 'Einstein, stop telling God what to do'...
> > > :)
> > 
> > I think Einstein was right, whether or not God arrived at the idea
> > independently.
> 
> Maybe you missed the point - the quote was from one of the first quantum
> physicists. Bohr, I think, but I'm not sure, so I didn't put a name.
> 
	in light of the work done by heisenberg, schrodinger (sp),
	and others, eistein was horrified.  he declared 
	"God does not play dice with the universe."

	(inevitably, terry will tell me that statistically eistein,
	 or some one of his caliber, inevitably would be born, hence
	 proving that God does not play dice with the universe. ;)

	mind the dice is part is when eistein would be born

jmb

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 14:56:05 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702232253.PAA23451@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr M P Searle)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:53:48 -0700 (MST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <10834.199702232133@garvock.csv.warwick.ac.uk> from "Mr M P Searle" at Feb 23, 97 09:33:32 pm
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> > > > Someone I respect very much once said "God does not play dice with the
> > > > universe".
> > > 
> > > I think the reply to that was 'Einstein, stop telling God what to do'...
> > > :)
> > 
> > I think Einstein was right, whether or not God arrived at the idea
> > independently.
> 
> Maybe you missed the point - the quote was from one of the first quantum
> physicists. Bohr, I think, but I'm not sure, so I didn't put a name.

I know the history.  It wasn't Neils Bohr, it was Heisenberg.  Einstein
disliked the uncertainty principle, and its implicit randomness.  Now
we know that the randomness isn't real.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 14:58:15 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702232255.PAA23466@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:55:57 -0700 (MST)
Cc: csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk, terry@lambert.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702232228.OAA05509@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Feb 23, 97 02:28:05 pm
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> 	in light of the work done by heisenberg, schrodinger (sp),
> 	and others, eistein was horrified.  he declared 
> 	"God does not play dice with the universe."
> 
> 	(inevitably, terry will tell me that statistically eistein,
> 	 or some one of his caliber, inevitably would be born, hence
> 	 proving that God does not play dice with the universe. ;)
> 
> 	mind the dice is part is when eistein would be born

No, actually I claim that space is also quantized, and the randomness
under h_bar/2 is only an apparent effect.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 15:02:16 1997
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
Message-Id: <199702232302.PAA07401@freefall.freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:02:09 -0800 (PST)
Cc: csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk, terry@lambert.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
In-Reply-To: <199702232255.PAA23466@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 23, 97 03:55:57 pm
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Terry Lambert wrote:
> 
> jmb wrote:
> > 	in light of the work done by heisenberg, schrodinger (sp),
> > 	and others, eistein was horrified.  he declared 
> > 	"God does not play dice with the universe."
> > 
> > 	(inevitably, terry will tell me that statistically eistein,
> > 	 or some one of his caliber, inevitably would be born, hence
> > 	 proving that God does not play dice with the universe. ;)
> > 
> > 	mind the dice is part is when eistein would be born
> 
> No, actually I claim that space is also quantized, 

	yes

>                                                     and the randomness
> under h_bar/2 is only an apparent effect.

	cool, so when will the next eistein equilvalent be born.
	be specific, please.
	show your work.

;))

jmb

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In Email, Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org> wrote:
> > This, of course, proves what we have all known --- namely that
> > quantum physics is not science.  Now that it's not a science we
> > can start making some of those excess English majors study it and
> > save our precious Math majors for real work.
> 
> Either you are a physicist and you are joking, or you are a non-physicist
> and you are ignorant of the facts.

I'm certainly not a physicist, however I was not ignorant of facts you 
felt necessary to quote me.  It was, in fact, a joke.  I neglected to add 
a smiley, but I will do so now, hopefully clearing up any remaining 
confusion.  --==> :-) <==--

My intent was to show that Jordan's argument about sociology not being a 
science (due to the fact that it cannot make predictions about 
individuals but must limit itself to groups).  The comparison between 
quantum physics and sociology was meant to be strictly in their use of 
statistics.

I am doubtful that the issue of sociology (and political science) being 
scientifical is worth debate.  That is why I did not continue beyond my 
single paragraph on the subject.


> > All of this suggests that the funding situation of FreeBSD is
> > more stable and less dependant on the whims of individual
> > developers than your [Jordan's] comet analogy suggests. 
> 
> My point is that the project will steady-state at a given energy
> level.  If John did leave, why should we be satisfied with *one*
> someone stepping up to the task?

I believe I was actually agreeing with you [Terry].  I did so because I
felt I had in hand a couple pieces of evidence worthy of mention but
(until now) deprived thereof. 

I think this wasn't clear because I intentionally chose to state my
conclusion as a refutation of the comet analogy rather than as a
concordance with your steady-state theories. 


-- 
tIM...HOEk
"Oops."

-- 
tIM...HOEk
"Oops."

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 15:58:39 1997
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Subject: Re: new all-time traffic record on wcarchive 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:09:31 PST."
             <19970221120931.HI29116@dragon.nuxi.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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>David Greenman writes:
>> On the other hand, the situation wasn't always this way - Linux used to
>> beat us out much of the time, so I'd say that this trend does indicate
>> that we are at least catching up.
>
>Does it also imply that Slackware which used to be *the* distribution
>to run, has lost favor w/the Linux community?

   Perhaps, but WC distributes more than just the Slackware variant of Linux.

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 20:49:49 1997
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zach.ttyp2$ time cc t.c

real    0m0.445s
user    0m1.121s
sys     0m0.107s
zach.ttyp2$ 

What's wrong with that picture? :-)

shouldn't this always be true?

real >= user + sys.

contents of t.c:
int main(void){return 0;}

p.s. Yes, I did read the 'time' man page, and saw the note that any of
the times could be too large by 1 second...
-- 
Zach Heilig (zach@blizzard.gaffaneys.com) | ALL unsolicited commercial email
Support bacteria -- it's the only         | is unwelcome.  I avoid dealing
form of culture some people have!         | with companies that email ads.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 22:30:43 1997
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Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> wrote:

> If all you want is the http and ftp downloads in one package, you
> might consider trying to port ftp(1) from OpenBSD.  Supposedly
> it's a rough equivalent to fetch(1). 

Or something like the "wget" package (that can be grabbed from

	ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu

which, I think, gets it from its master site in Japan(?)) that can do both
http & ftp grabbing....from its README:

	GNU Wget is a freely available network utility to retrieve files from
	the World Wide Web using HTTP and FTP, the two most widely used
	Internet protocols.  It works non-interactively, thus enabling work in
	the background, after having logged off.

	The recursive retrieval of HTML pages, as well as FTP sites is
	supported -- you can use Wget to make mirrors of archives and home
	...etc...

Scott Blachowicz  Ph: 206/283-8802x240   Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div)
                                         1700 Westlake Ave N #500
scott@statsci.com                        Seattle, WA USA   98109
Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sun Feb 23 23:33:07 1997
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From: "Brian L. Heess" <brian@krumm.commline.com>
To: Scott Blachowicz <scott@statsci.com>
cc: Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: anybody ported /usr/bin/fetch to SunOS? 
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On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Scott Blachowicz wrote:

> Tim wrote:
> 
> > If all you want is the http and ftp downloads in one package, you
> > might consider trying to port ftp(1) from OpenBSD.  Supposedly
> > it's a rough equivalent to fetch(1). 
> 
> Or something like the "wget" package (that can be grabbed from
> 
> 	ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu

Thanks, that'll do it I think...I had forgotten about wget.

Cheers!

-brian
--
Brian L. Heess, brian@thru.net | Office: 201.288.1136
VP Technology                  |    Fax: 201.288.0213
Vanguard InterActive, Inc.     |   Home: 201-387-2574 / 201-287-0739
My personal URLs: brian@commline.com - http://www.commline.com  (DM/BONG)
Co-founder: EarthLink Net, brian@earthlink.net - http://www.earthlink.net


From owner-freebsd-chat  Mon Feb 24 04:49:07 1997
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To: scott@statsci.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:48:07 +0000 (GMT)
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> 
> Tim Vanderhoek <hoek@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> wrote:
> 
> > If all you want is the http and ftp downloads in one package, you
> > might consider trying to port ftp(1) from OpenBSD.  Supposedly
> > it's a rough equivalent to fetch(1). 
> 
> Or something like the "wget" package (that can be grabbed from
> 
> 	ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu
> 
> which, I think, gets it from its master site in Japan(?)) that can do both
> http & ftp grabbing....from its README:
> 
> 	GNU Wget is a freely available network utility to retrieve files from
> 	the World Wide Web using HTTP and FTP, the two most widely used
> 	Internet protocols.  It works non-interactively, thus enabling work in
> 	the background, after having logged off.
> 
> 	The recursive retrieval of HTML pages, as well as FTP sites is
> 	supported -- you can use Wget to make mirrors of archives and home
> 	...etc...
> 

If all you need is being able to grab ftp and http, not the extra stuff
wget does, then lynx -dump does the same thing. 

From owner-freebsd-chat  Mon Feb 24 08:08:50 1997
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Subject: Re: new all-time traffic record on wcarchive 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:05:57 PST."
             <19970221120557.OM32177@dragon.nuxi.com> 
From: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
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>Charles Henrich writes:
>> In lists.freebsd.chat you write:
>>
>> Course those changes have made cdrom.com unusable for a large portion
>> of the state of Michigan.  We're getting a few bytes/sec transfer rates
>> here (and im all DS3 to Mae-East at least.  Oh well.  I've finally
>> resorted to doing the ftp via a 256k link I have into Sprint.  Its
>> clipping along quite nicely at the moment.
>
>Oh god!  You are actually getting packets from Sprint to cdrom.com????
>Ever since the entire Northern part of the University of California
>system went from BARNNet and CERFNet to Sprintlink, I haven't had
>anything BUT extreamly high packets loses.  Sprint is *really* good about
>bullshitting when the UC Office of the President opens a trouble ticket.
>They never tell the truth what is wrong, and always flattly lie for the
>first 12hrs of so of trouble.
>
>Die Sprintnet, Die!!!

   Actually, I've had fairly good success with Sprint<->CRL. My own provider
is multi-homed with one foot in Sprint, so my packets go through Sprint when
connecting with cdrom.com. I wonder if your congestion problems are specific
to UC Davis or perhaps Sprint's connectivity out of the Davis/Sacramento
area?

-DG

David Greenman
Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project

From owner-freebsd-chat  Mon Feb 24 09:38:25 1997
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Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler)
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> >                                                     and the randomness
> > under h_bar/2 is only an apparent effect.
> 
> 	cool, so when will the next eistein equilvalent be born.
> 	be specific, please.
> 	show your work.

Define "Einstein equivalent"... hair color?  Shakes up our view of
physics?  Has equivalent social impact?  Clerks an equal number of
German patents?


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Mon Feb 24 12:16:52 1997
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:15:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Vincent Poy <vince@mail.MCESTATE.COM>
To: David Greenman <dg@root.com>
cc: "David O'Brien" <obrien@NUXI.com>,
        Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: new all-time traffic record on wcarchive 
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On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, David Greenman wrote:

> >Oh god!  You are actually getting packets from Sprint to cdrom.com????
> >Ever since the entire Northern part of the University of California
> >system went from BARNNet and CERFNet to Sprintlink, I haven't had
> >anything BUT extreamly high packets loses.  Sprint is *really* good about
> >bullshitting when the UC Office of the President opens a trouble ticket.
> >They never tell the truth what is wrong, and always flattly lie for the
> >first 12hrs of so of trouble.
> >
> >Die Sprintnet, Die!!!
> 
>    Actually, I've had fairly good success with Sprint<->CRL. My own provider
> is multi-homed with one foot in Sprint, so my packets go through Sprint when
> connecting with cdrom.com. I wonder if your congestion problems are specific
> to UC Davis or perhaps Sprint's connectivity out of the Davis/Sacramento
> area?

	I can tell you that during October/November of 1996 as a UC
Berkeley student and a member of the US DoD Bay Area GigaBit Network
project, the way it works is that all northern UC Campuses: UCSF,
Berkeley, UC Santa Cruz, UC Davis and the Office of the President are all
connected to a PacBell 34MBps SMDS Cloud that goes to the one outgoing T3
Sprint connection from Berkeley's Evans Hall to Srpint's International Hub
in Stockton which is where the major congestion is coming from.  It
depends on the routing also since if it hits CRL from PB-NAP, then things
will be better than hitting Sprint from MAE-WEST.


Cheers,
Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET           ________   __ ____ 
Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / |  / |[__  ]
GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate                     / / / /  | /  | __] ]  
Beverly Hills, California USA 90210                   / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]



From owner-freebsd-chat  Mon Feb 24 13:03:04 1997
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Subject: desktops
To: chat@freebsd.org
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There was some discussion about nice desktops on FreeBSD a couple of days ago.
I promised mine, and here it is:

http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~csubl/desk.xwd.gz

This will only be there for a week or so, as it's 500K and I don't have
much space. It's a 16 bit, 1152x864, gzipped XWD. (JPEGs either looked ugly
or were bigger than this, so I kept it as it was.)

There isn't anything much special on it except an xfractint and a gimp. I'll
make another one with other stuff on if there's something you want. It'll
also look nicer when the new, improved, RSN version of the window manager
comes out.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Mon Feb 24 18:03:37 1997
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
Message-Id: <199702250203.SAA10150@freefall.freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:03:27 -0800 (PST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk, chat@freebsd.org
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Terry Lambert wrote:
> 
> > >                                                     and the randomness
> > > under h_bar/2 is only an apparent effect.
> > 
> > 	cool, so when will the next eistein equilvalent be born.
> > 	be specific, please.
> > 	show your work.
> 
> Define "Einstein equivalent"... hair color?  Shakes up our view of
> physics?  Has equivalent social impact?  Clerks an equal number of
> German patents?

	produces three papers in one year, each worthy of a nobel prize
	in physics....and then gets a nobel for "the photo-electric
	effect??"  that was the greatest?? 
jmb

From owner-freebsd-chat  Mon Feb 24 18:43:50 1997
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To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb@freefall.freebsd.org>
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        chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
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On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote:

> Terry Lambert wrote:
> > 
> > > >                                                     and the randomness
> > > > under h_bar/2 is only an apparent effect.
> > > 
> > > 	cool, so when will the next eistein equilvalent be born.
> > > 	be specific, please.
> > > 	show your work.
> > 
> > Define "Einstein equivalent"... hair color?  Shakes up our view of
> > physics?  Has equivalent social impact?  Clerks an equal number of
> > German patents?
> 
> 	produces three papers in one year, each worthy of a nobel prize
> 	in physics....and then gets a nobel for "the photo-electric
> 	effect??"  that was the greatest?? 

I've heard this particular comment so often, but it makes perfect sense to
me ... the special and general relativity were really new, but the
photo-electric effect thing isn't given it's proper background.  It had
nothing to do with way photo-cells work on a macro level (which a number
of people have brought up to me in misunderstanding) but instead was the
first application that really used the quantum effects to explain
something previously misunderstood, how photons really did have different
energy levels, and how quantum effects beautifully predicted things. 

Terry knows this better than I do, I just think that this particular
example, which everyone brings up, undervalues the "photoelectric effect".

I think many people think of "the photo-electric effect" as Einstein
getting an award for a solar cell.  Completely misses the point.

> jmb
> 

----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chuckr@eng.umd.edu          | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
9120 Edmonston Ct #302      |
Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD
(301) 220-2114              | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN!
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 00:21:46 1997
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From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch)
To: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
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As Jonathan M. Bresler wrote:

> > Define "Einstein equivalent"... hair color?  Shakes up our view of
> > physics?  Has equivalent social impact?  Clerks an equal number of
> > German patents?
> 
> 	produces three papers in one year, each worthy of a nobel prize
> 	in physics....and then gets a nobel for "the photo-electric
> 	effect??"  that was the greatest?? 

Ah, better yet: Stick out your tongue, and get famous for doing so.

:-)

-- 
cheers, J"org

joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 09:46:59 1997
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From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Message-Id: <199702251737.KAA26575@phaeton.artisoft.com>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:37:50 -0700 (MST)
Cc: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org, terry@lambert.org, csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk,
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> > 	produces three papers in one year, each worthy of a nobel prize
> > 	in physics....and then gets a nobel for "the photo-electric
> > 	effect??"  that was the greatest?? 
> 
> I've heard this particular comment so often, but it makes perfect sense to
> me ... the special and general relativity were really new, but the
> photo-electric effect thing isn't given it's proper background.  It had
> nothing to do with way photo-cells work on a macro level (which a number
> of people have brought up to me in misunderstanding) but instead was the
> first application that really used the quantum effects to explain
> something previously misunderstood, how photons really did have different
> energy levels, and how quantum effects beautifully predicted things. 
> 
> Terry knows this better than I do, I just think that this particular
> example, which everyone brings up, undervalues the "photoelectric effect".
> 
> I think many people think of "the photo-electric effect" as Einstein
> getting an award for a solar cell.  Completely misses the point.

Actually, the person who never gets any credit is Compton.  "The
photo-electric effect" in question is "the Compton effect".  The
value of Einstein's interpretation of the Compton effect is in
the resoloution of the wave/particle duality of photons.  It was
the first step toward a unified field theory, and arguably Einsteins
most important contribution.

Even to this day, there's no clear judgment on the Copehagen
interpretation of Quantum Electro Dynamics; all we know is that the
math works, and there are several competing theories as to what the
math is actually modelling, with no clear proof one way or the
other.  We tend to teach one rather than the other because algebraic
soloution are easier for most people to understand than geometric.

For what it's worth, Einstein's special relativity implies gravity
waves, and though we've been looking since the 40's, we haven't seen
any.  Feynman argued against an external force carrier for gravity
(the theory that the universe is a "balloon", and that gravitation
is "air pressure" inside the balloon), but he was quite hung up on
a particle carrier... a non-particulate carrier would be enough to
invalidate the impact/energy-transfer calculations made by Feynman,
and then we can look past that to comparing G to the background
radiation level -- an interesting comparison, since it comes out to
be about the same for several sigmas.

To be really sure, we would need to set up 3 large masses with a know
relative planar position (the calculation would be easier with 4,
where the curvature would not have to be calculated) and brin in a third
mass of the same size, from about halfway across the solor system, which
has been accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light.
The mass should come in on a vector at some small angle relative to the
perpendicular to one "edge" of the triangle or tetrahedron, and at a
small angle relative to the plane described by the two points on the
edge and the center of mass of the equalateral triange (or tetrahedron).
This would determine once and for all if gravity propagates at the
speed of light (if so, our gravity wave apparatus has just been badly
designed for nearly 60 years -- hard for me to believe).

It may be that Einsteins other contributions are further lessened
compared to his interpretation of the Compton effect, then... the
Nobel committee picked the right contribution.


					Regards,
					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 09:50:51 1997
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
Message-Id: <199702251748.JAA04809@freefall.freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: chuckr@glue.umd.edu (Chuck Robey)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:48:01 -0800 (PST)
Cc: terry@lambert.org, csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk, chat@freebsd.org
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Chuck Robey wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote:
> > 	produces three papers in oen year, each worthy of a nobel prize
> > 	in physics....and then gets a nobel for "the photo-electric
> > 	effect??"  that was the greatest?? 
> 
> I've heard this particular comment so often, but it makes perfect sense to
> me ... the special and general relativity were really new, but the
> photo-electric effect thing isn't given it's proper background.  It had
> nothing to do with way photo-cells work on a macro level (which a number
> of people have brought up to me in misunderstanding) but instead was the
> first application that really used the quantum effects to explain
> something previously misunderstood, how photons really did have different
> energy levels, and how quantum effects beautifully predicted things. 
> 
> Terry knows this better than I do, I just think that this particular
> example, which everyone brings up, undervalues the "photoelectric effect".
> 
> I think many people think of "the photo-electric effect" as Einstein
> getting an award for a solar cell.  Completely misses the point.

	dont get me wrong, please, ;)
	explaining the photo-electric effect is good ;)
	but is it *the* item for which einstein should have gotten
	his nobel prize?  who said that you can get one ;>

	bose-einstein is not more impressive?
	that relativity thingie aint more zowie?
jmb

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 13:18:49 1997
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To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb@freefall.freebsd.org>
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Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
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On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Jonathan M. Bresler wrote:

> > I've heard this particular comment so often, but it makes perfect sense to
> > me ... the special and general relativity were really new, but the
> > photo-electric effect thing isn't given it's proper background.  It had
> > nothing to do with way photo-cells work on a macro level (which a number
> > of people have brought up to me in misunderstanding) but instead was the
> > first application that really used the quantum effects to explain
> > something previously misunderstood, how photons really did have different
> > energy levels, and how quantum effects beautifully predicted things. 
> > 
> > Terry knows this better than I do, I just think that this particular
> > example, which everyone brings up, undervalues the "photoelectric effect".
> > 
> > I think many people think of "the photo-electric effect" as Einstein
> > getting an award for a solar cell.  Completely misses the point.
> 
> 	dont get me wrong, please, ;)
> 	explaining the photo-electric effect is good ;)
> 	but is it *the* item for which einstein should have gotten
> 	his nobel prize?  who said that you can get one ;>
> 
> 	bose-einstein is not more impressive?
> 	that relativity thingie aint more zowie?

Jon, who got the credit for Transistors, the guy who first doped
semiconductors, or the guy who provided the math that explained the whole
thing?  Back then folks weren't completely sold on relativity (although
it was indeed moving forward) but his explanation of how to really use
quantum effects moved theory to fact, and opened up applications.  You
have to think about when that nobel prize was awarded, too, but even
given that, IMO the "photoelectric effect" was the most immediately
critcal step forward.

Right now, folks think of special relativity as his most important
contribution.  It's entirely possible that 100 years from today, everyone
will say that general relativity was the most important (dealing with
gravity), depending on whether or not it's ultimately proven completely
accurate.  Who's right?

Unfortuantely, I think the Nobel committee got real bad press for making
the right choice.

----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chuckr@eng.umd.edu          | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
9120 Edmonston Ct #302      |
Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD
(301) 220-2114              | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN!
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 13:24:00 1997
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From: Julian Assange <proff@iq.org>
Message-Id: <199702252118.IAA00893@profane.iq.org>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
In-Reply-To: <199702251748.JAA04809@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at "Feb 25, 97 09:48:01 am"
To: jmb@freefall.freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:18:48 +1100 (EST)
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> 	dont get me wrong, please, ;)
> 	explaining the photo-electric effect is good ;)
> 	but is it *the* item for which einstein should have gotten
> 	his nobel prize?  who said that you can get one ;>
> 
> 	bose-einstein is not more impressive?
> 	that relativity thingie aint more zowie?
> jmb

They don't hand Nobels out for theoretical work. One of the reasons
there is no Nobel prise for mathematics.

--
Prof. Julian Assange  |If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people
		      |together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks
proff@iq.org          |and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless
proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu  |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 13:30:46 1997
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From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
Message-Id: <199702252130.NAA17876@freefall.freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RMS's view on dynamic linking
To: proff@iq.org (Julian Assange)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 13:30:42 -0800 (PST)
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702252118.IAA00893@profane.iq.org> from "Julian Assange" at Feb 26, 97 08:18:48 am
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Julian Assange wrote:
> 
> > 	dont get me wrong, please, ;)
> > 	explaining the photo-electric effect is good ;)
> > 	but is it *the* item for which einstein should have gotten
> > 	his nobel prize?  who said that you can get one ;>
> > 
> > 	bose-einstein is not more impressive?
> > 	that relativity thingie aint more zowie?
> > jmb
> 
> They don't hand Nobels out for theoretical work. One of the reasons
> there is no Nobel prise for mathematics.
	
	there is not nobel for math because mrs nobel and mathematician
		developed a close relationship that was not to mr
		nobel's liking (especially aafter she left him)

	the nobel for econ is nearly always a work of fiction,
		no wait, that's nobel peace prize,
		no wait, that's the prize of literature.
		<whew>
jmb

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 16:22:36 1997
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Subject: Re: FreeBSD advert
In-Reply-To: <13254.856913989@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Feb 25, 97 03:39:49 pm"
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:50:58 +1030 (CST)
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Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying:
> > I was just surprised to see a FreeBSD advert on Yahoo.  That was a
> > pretty cool idea of someone (Jordan?).  I hope we can look forward to
> > seeing more of this kind of exposure.

I haven't seen that yet; where do I look? 8)

> Well, we really have David Filo to thank - I merely suggested a way
> in which they might give us the most effectve moral support. :-)

Please pass my appreciation back to David in whatever form is most
appropriate!

> 				Jordan

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 20:57:29 1997
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From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:

> Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying:
> > > I was just surprised to see a FreeBSD advert on Yahoo.  That was a
> > > pretty cool idea of someone (Jordan?).  I hope we can look forward to
> > > seeing more of this kind of exposure.
> 
> I haven't seen that yet; where do I look? 8)
> 

It is semi-random on Yahoo.  Try searching for freebsd and you may see
it if you are lucky...

> > Well, we really have David Filo to thank - I merely suggested a way
> > in which they might give us the most effectve moral support. :-)
> 
> Please pass my appreciation back to David in whatever form is most
> appropriate!
> 
> > 				Jordan
> 
> -- 
> ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
> ]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
> ]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
> ]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
> ]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[
> 


From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 21:09:36 1997
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:09:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
Reply-To: Marc Slemko <marcs@znep.com>
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD advert
In-Reply-To: <199702260021.KAA19634@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:

> Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying:
> > > I was just surprised to see a FreeBSD advert on Yahoo.  That was a
> > > pretty cool idea of someone (Jordan?).  I hope we can look forward to
> > > seeing more of this kind of exposure.
> 
> I haven't seen that yet; where do I look? 8)

To follow up to what I said before, even better... the FreeBSD ad popped
up when I did a search on Linux.  <g>

For anyone who can't duplicate this great result:

	http://www.worldgate.com/~marcs/yahoo.gif

contains a screen capture.  Too good to pass up.


From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 22:49:06 1997
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From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Message-Id: <199702260649.WAA06946@lightside.com>
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, marcs@znep.com
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Marc Slemko writes:
> On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:
> 
> > Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying:
> > > > I was just surprised to see a FreeBSD advert on Yahoo.  That was a
> > > > pretty cool idea of someone (Jordan?).  I hope we can look forward to
> > > > seeing more of this kind of exposure.
> > 
> > I haven't seen that yet; where do I look? 8)
> 
> To follow up to what I said before, even better... the FreeBSD ad popped
> up when I did a search on Linux.  <g>

That's not a coincidence!  Yahoo's search engine appears to pop up ads 
semi-intelligently.  If you search for Linux or FreeBSD, you'll get .. a FreeBSD 
ad!  If you search for sex, you get "Create Your Own Custom Hardcore Porn 
Channel" or "The Net's Only XXX Search Engine" (I'm not kidding! :).  Look up 
"religion", and you get "Bible News", which you'll need after visiting either of 
the previous sites, I'm sure.  ;)  Look up "Java", you get a site offering Java 
training.  And so forth...

Talk about targeting your audience!  Well, I must admit that's a pretty clever 
idea, and I'm surprised that you didn't figure out it was more than just 
coincidence...

-- Jake

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 23:30:10 1997
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From: grog@lemis.de
Message-Id: <199702250450.MAA00467@papillon.lemis.de>
Subject: Strange mail message (was: Friday's Calendar)
To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:50:04 +0800 (CST)
Cc: jdunham@fc.net, dunham@rider.fc.net
Organisation: 	LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany
Phone: +49-6637-919123
Fax: +49-6637-919122
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Jerry Dunham is running 2.1.5 almost-release (about 2 weeks too
early), and he keeps getting this message.  Looking at the time (as
the subject suggests, every Friday), it looks like a cron job, but I
can't figure out where it's coming from.  Does anybody recognize this?

Greg

Jerry Dunham writes:
>
> Well, it's ALMOST coherent!
>
> Nearly coherently, Reminder Service wrote (and I quote):
>> From root Fri Feb 21 02:00:03 1997
>> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 02:00:03 -0600 (CST)
>> Message-Id: <199702210800.CAA00562@rider.fc.net>
>> From: dunham (Reminder Service)
>> To: dunham
>> Subject: Friday's Calendar
>> Precedence: bulk
>
>> Saturday night will be at Nebo or maybe back to Talimena to kill some of
>> month, a notice will be sent out, reminding you to submit any upcoming
>> Month:

From owner-freebsd-chat  Tue Feb 25 23:30:49 1997
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Message-Id: <199702250428.MAA00393@papillon.lemis.de>
Subject: Re: text editors
In-Reply-To: <199702201408.PAA17241@oldman.steinkamm.com> from Arne Steinkamm at "Feb 20, 97 03:08:50 pm"
To: arne@Steinkamm.COM (Arne Steinkamm)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:28:18 +0800 (CST)
Cc: fn@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu, robmel@innotts.co.uk, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au,
        eivind@dimaga.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
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Arne Steinkamm writes:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, Robin Melville wrote:
>>
>>> Is it true as rumoured that emacs stands for Eight Megabytes and Continues to Swap?
>>
>> no; emacs macht alle computer scho\"en.
>
> As a german native speaker i can't prevent to understand this sentence,
> but, i insist, it's *NOT* true !

Of course not.  As a speaker to German natives, I can state: "Emacs
macht alle Computer schön.  TeX macht Computer und ihre Benutzer
verr\"uckt (nicht verru\"eckt)."

BTW, the original expansion was "Eight Megabytes And Continually
Swapping".  But that's what you get for not enough memory.

Greg

From owner-freebsd-chat  Wed Feb 26 05:47:42 1997
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Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: FreeBSD advert
References: <199702260021.KAA19634@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
From: Doug Rabson <dfr@render.com>
Date: 26 Feb 1997 13:35:19 +0000
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Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> writes:

> 
> Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying:
> > > I was just surprised to see a FreeBSD advert on Yahoo.  That was a
> > > pretty cool idea of someone (Jordan?).  I hope we can look forward to
> > > seeing more of this kind of exposure.
> 
> I haven't seen that yet; where do I look? 8)

Yahoo seems to pick a random ad for each page.  If you refresh, you
get a different ad.  I saw it while wandering around biz.yahoo.com.

-- 
Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd.	Mail:  dfr@render.com
						Phone: +44 171 734 3761
These are not the opinions of Microsoft.	FAX:   +44 171 734 6426

From owner-freebsd-chat  Wed Feb 26 06:01:50 1997
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Subject: desktop
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If you've tried to download the desktop I put up a couple of days ago, you'll
have noticed that it wasn't there. Oops. That's fixed, as of now. The URL is
http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~csubl/desk.xwd.gz
the same as before.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Wed Feb 26 09:39:37 1997
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From: Kenneth Merry <ken@housing1.stucen.gatech.edu>
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Subject: Re: FreeBSD advert
In-Reply-To: <199702260649.WAA06946@lightside.com> from Jake Hamby at "Feb 25, 97 10:49:16 pm"
To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:38:06 -0500 (EST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, marcs@znep.com, chat@freebsd.org
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Jake Hamby wrote...
> Marc Slemko writes:

> > To follow up to what I said before, even better... the FreeBSD ad popped
> > up when I did a search on Linux.  <g>
> 
> That's not a coincidence!  Yahoo's search engine appears to pop up ads 
> semi-intelligently.  If you search for Linux or FreeBSD, you'll get .. a FreeBSD 
> ad!  If you search for sex, you get "Create Your Own Custom Hardcore Porn 
> Channel" or "The Net's Only XXX Search Engine" (I'm not kidding! :).  Look up 
> "religion", and you get "Bible News", which you'll need after visiting either of 
> the previous sites, I'm sure.  ;)  Look up "Java", you get a site offering Java 
> training.  And so forth...
> 
> Talk about targeting your audience!  Well, I must admit that's a pretty clever 
> idea, and I'm surprised that you didn't figure out it was more than just 
> coincidence...


	I think one of the best examples I've seen of targeted advertising
is www.pricewatch.com.  One time I was clicking around there, and at the
top of the screen I see this ad that says "There is life after Georgia
Tech."  It was a link to IBM's college recruiting page...  Apparantly
they've figured out that Georgia Tech is in Atlanta, since there's a banner
at the top of the motherboards page that says "Atlanta click now!"  (it's
some coupon advertisement)

	There's another ad on there that popped up "Topics for Term
Papers." 

	So they do targeted advertising based on hostname.  Pretty
interesting.


Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@ulc199.residence.gatech.edu
Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Wed Feb 26 17:10:36 1997
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To: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
Cc: rohofs@cadvision.com (Shane Rohof), chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack
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[ Moved to -chat ]

> > hey, I am interested in learning how to hack. I was ondering if you could
> > tech me how this is done. THANK  YOU
> 
> The best way to learn to "hack" is to buy yourself an axe, some good
> wood, and watch "The New Yankee Workshop" on PBS.

Norm can't really be called a 'hack' since he's got plans and expensive
tools he knows how to use.

Now, the guy who refuses to use tools that aren't human-powered is on
later on the afternoon, he's a 'hacker'.  You know, the guy with all the
scraped, bruised, calloused hands. :)



Nate

From owner-freebsd-chat  Wed Feb 26 19:14:48 1997
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To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, marcs@znep.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: FreeBSD advert 
References: <199702260649.WAA06946@lightside.com> 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:49:16 -0800."
             <199702260649.WAA06946@lightside.com> 
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jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) wrote:

> Talk about targeting your audience!  Well, I must admit that's a pretty clever
> idea, and I'm surprised that you didn't figure out it was more than just 
> coincidence...

Hmmm...I keep getting it on my my.yahoo.com stock quotes page...I wonder what
that says about the [potential] FreeBSD user and/or stock market user
audiences? :-))

Scott Blachowicz  Ph: 206/283-8802x240   Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div)
                                         1700 Westlake Ave N #500
scott@statsci.com                        Seattle, WA USA   98109
Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org

From owner-freebsd-chat  Wed Feb 26 22:37:25 1997
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From: Wes Peters <softweyr@xmission.com>
To: Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
CC: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack
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Nate Williams writes:
 > Norm can't really be called a 'hack' since he's got plans and expensive
 > tools he knows how to use.
 > 
 > Now, the guy who refuses to use tools that aren't human-powered is on
 > later on the afternoon, he's a 'hacker'.  You know, the guy with all the
 > scraped, bruised, calloused hands. :)

A Review of my old baby, Security Toolkit/UNIX, once surmised that if
Norm Abrams was a UNIX security administrator, he'd have STK/U hanging
from his toolbelt.  I still have a reprint of that review hanging in
my office at home, 5 years later.  ;^)

You're referring to Roy Underhill, the Woodwright.  A couple of weeks
ago he went to Wales and did a show on waddle and daub construction.  It
reminded me of various English attempts to make computers.  ;^)

-- 
          "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                       Softweyr LLC
http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr                       softweyr@xmission.com




From owner-freebsd-chat  Wed Feb 26 23:37:58 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:37:14 +0000
To: Wes Peters <softweyr@xmission.com>, Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
From: Robin Melville <robmel@innotts.co.uk>
Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack
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At 11:41 pm -0700 26/2/97, Wes Peters wrote:
>You're referring to Roy Underhill, the Woodwright.  A couple of weeks
>ago he went to Wales and did a show on waddle and daub construction.  It
>reminded me of various English attempts to make computers.  ;^)

Heheheh, Wes might need asbestos underpants at this rate. The brits did after all make the first computer :)

Rob.



From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 02:58:17 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:58:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Vincent Poy <vince@mail.MCESTATE.COM>
To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Autocreate script
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	I'm currently working on the autocreate script...looks good so
far. I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to convert strings.

Let's say $string is "SomeLongUserName"
I want to convert that to "SomeLong"

so it would be a valid username.

Any ideas?


Cheers,
Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET           ________   __ ____ 
Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / |  / |[__  ]
GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate                     / / / /  | /  | __] ]  
Beverly Hills, California USA 90210                   / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]


From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 04:36:26 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702271236.XAA03536@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Autocreate script
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970227025709.438R-100000@mail.MCESTATE.COM> from Vincent Poy at "Feb 27, 97 02:58:11 am"
To: vince@mail.MCESTATE.COM (Vincent Poy)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:06:04 +1030 (CST)
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
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Vincent Poy stands accused of saying:
> 	I'm currently working on the autocreate script...looks good so
> far. I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to convert strings.
> 
> Let's say $string is "SomeLongUserName"
> I want to convert that to "SomeLong"
> 
> so it would be a valid username.
> 
> Any ideas?

$ string=SomeLongUserName
$ echo "puts [string range $string 0 7]" | tclsh
SomeLong

or for the minimalists amongst us :

$ echo $string | cut -c 1-8 
SomeLong

(I presume you're using sh here, of course not having told us that you
could be accused of wasting our time...)

> Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET           ________   __ ____ 
> Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / |  / |[__  ]

--
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 05:49:01 1997
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From: Thomas Gellekum <thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-Id: <199702271346.OAA12541@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: disallow setuid root shells?
To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net (Joe Greco)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:46:31 +0100 (MET)
Cc: chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199702271255.GAA22830@solaria.sol.net> from Joe Greco at "Feb 27, 97 06:55:03 am"
Organization: Institut f. Hochfrequenztechnik, RWTH Aachen
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Joe Greco wrote:
>  (/home should
> be at least mounted nodev,nosuid as it may be legit for users to have
> executables and shell scripts).

You can't be serious.

tg

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 05:59:18 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:59:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Vincent Poy <vince@mail.MCESTATE.COM>
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Autocreate script
In-Reply-To: <199702271236.XAA03536@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
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On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Michael Smith wrote:

> Vincent Poy stands accused of saying:
> > 	I'm currently working on the autocreate script...looks good so
> > far. I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to convert strings.
> > 
> > Let's say $string is "SomeLongUserName"
> > I want to convert that to "SomeLong"
> > 
> > so it would be a valid username.
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> 
> $ string=SomeLongUserName
> $ echo "puts [string range $string 0 7]" | tclsh
> SomeLong
> 
> or for the minimalists amongst us :
> 
> $ echo $string | cut -c 1-8 
> SomeLong

	Thanks!

OK...how would I get that result into another variable like $string2 ?


Cheers,
Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET           ________   __ ____ 
Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / |  / |[__  ]
GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate                     / / / /  | /  | __] ]  
Beverly Hills, California USA 90210                   / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]




From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 06:14:39 1997
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From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199702271413.AAA04077@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Autocreate script
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970227055831.438m-100000@mail.MCESTATE.COM> from Vincent Poy at "Feb 27, 97 05:59:04 am"
To: vince@mail.MCESTATE.COM (Vincent Poy)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 00:43:00 +1030 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@freebsd.org
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Vincent Poy stands accused of saying:
> > $ echo $string | cut -c 1-8 
> > SomeLong
> 
> 	Thanks!
> 
> OK...how would I get that result into another variable like $string2 ?

Cripes Vince, how f'n lazy are you?  How about you spend a few
well-worth-it hours reading the 'sh' documentation?

I'll even give you a hint : learn the difference between ` and '.

> Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET           ________   __ ____ 

-- 
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer        msmith@gsoft.com.au             [[
]] Genesis Software                     genesis@gsoft.com.au            [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and      (GSM mobile)     0411-222-496   [[
]] realtime instrument control.         (ph)          +61-8-8267-3493   [[
]] Unix hardware collector.             "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick  [[

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 06:45:09 1997
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To: sthaug@nethelp.no
cc: ben@narcissus.ml.org, yves@CC.McGill.CA, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:56:56 +0100."
             <16334.857051816@verdi.nethelp.no> 
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 06:44:42 -0800
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> "langnese" means "long nose" in Norwegian, ie. thumbing your nose at

It also means "ice cream" in German and Italian. :-)

						Jordan

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 07:11:29 1997
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From: Ola Persson <smurfen@ludd.luth.se>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, ben@narcissus.ml.org, yves@CC.McGill.CA,
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Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack 
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On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> > "langnese" means "long nose" in Norwegian, ie. thumbing your nose at
> 
> It also means "ice cream" in German and Italian. :-)

No, it doesn't :) Or I don't know about Italian, cuz I don't speak the
language. And you should know that ice cream in German in 'eis' Jordan..

Perhaps it is a brand, just like Mövenpick ?

/Ola


From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 07:20:36 1997
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Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:11:03 +0100."
             <Pine.SUN.3.95.970227160953.10710H-100000@brother.ludd.luth.se> 
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:19:58 -0800
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> 
> On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> 
> > > "langnese" means "long nose" in Norwegian, ie. thumbing your nose at
> >=20
> > It also means "ice cream" in German and Italian. :-)
> 
> No, it doesn't :) Or I don't know about Italian, cuz I don't speak the
> language. And you should know that ice cream in German in 'eis' Jordan..

Clearly a man who's never gone to the movies in Germany. :-)

Trust me, I was right the first time.  Oh sure, the Italian and German
dictionaries might say "Gelato" and "Eis", but in terms of what people
actually order, eat and laugh foolishly at the commercials for, it's
Langnese. :-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 07:44:14 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 02:43:34 +1100
From: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
To: Thomas Gellekum <thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
Cc: Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: disallow setuid root shells?
References: <199702271255.GAA22830@solaria.sol.net> <199702271346.OAA12541@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>
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On Feb 02, 1997 at 02:46:31PM, Thomas Gellekum wrote:
> Joe Greco wrote:
> >  (/home should
> > be at least mounted nodev,nosuid as it may be legit for users to have
> > executables and shell scripts).
> 
> You can't be serious.

??

If you give them a shell account, that's what they get. Many
of our shell users have their own scripts, whether to grep the
http log to do statistical analysis of accesses to their home
pages, or do some check or other, such as seeing whether
they're on line, or mailing themselves, account statistics..
any number of things.

I'd feel somewhat cheated if I couldn't do this where I'd paid
good money for a shell account. Besides which, even if the home
partition is noexec, it is easy enough to run your own scripts
regardless, so it isn't any more "secure".

Regards,

David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
Voice +61-3-9791-9547  Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507  3:632/348@fidonet
davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 10:38:54 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 19:13:40 +0100
From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack
References: <199702262308.QAA17332@huey.cadvision.com> <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970227085858.1308L-100000@donald.iafrica.com>
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According to Ryan Loots:
> > hey, I am interested in learning how to hack. I was ondering if you could
> > tech me how this is done. THANK  YOU
> 
> Try warez.phantom.com, this is an excellent site to practice on.

warez.eu.org is a nice one too.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 13:03:06 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:57:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Marso <lsmarso@panix.com>
To: (Ollivier Robert) <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack
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www.alt.2600.com

beginner, intermediate and advanced lessons, all available.

Regards.
----------------------------------
Larry Marso <lsmarso@panix.com>
date: 27-Feb-97
Time: 15:57:49

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 14:24:51 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:22:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: David Nugent <davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au>
cc: Thomas Gellekum <thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>,
        Joe Greco <jgreco@solaria.sol.net>, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: disallow setuid root shells?
In-Reply-To: <19970228024334.05133@usn.blaze.net.au>
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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, David Nugent wrote:

> On Feb 02, 1997 at 02:46:31PM, Thomas Gellekum wrote:
> > Joe Greco wrote:
> > >  (/home should
> > > be at least mounted nodev,nosuid as it may be legit for users to have
> > > executables and shell scripts).
> > 
> > You can't be serious.
> 
> ??
> 
> If you give them a shell account, that's what they get. Many
> of our shell users have their own scripts, whether to grep the
> http log to do statistical analysis of accesses to their home
> pages, or do some check or other, such as seeing whether
> they're on line, or mailing themselves, account statistics..
> any number of things.

I must second this -- I have a small constellation of simple shell scripts
that I bring with me wherever I go, to make my life easier.  I would
certainly be offended if an ISP mounted the FS containing my ~ noexec, at
least if they didn't warn me before I signed up for the account. 
 
> I'd feel somewhat cheated if I couldn't do this where I'd paid
> good money for a shell account. Besides which, even if the home
> partition is noexec, it is easy enough to run your own scripts
> regardless, so it isn't any more "secure".
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia
> Voice +61-3-9791-9547  Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507  3:632/348@fidonet
> davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 17:05:25 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:05:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@vex.net>
To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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    Anyone else dedicating spare cycles (or whole machines) to this
effort?  I've got a 200-MHz Pentium cranking out just over 148000 keys
per second, which is pretty fast compared to numbers posted for
various Suns, SGI's and RS/6000's (see http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/
for our particular team effort).  Linux systems seem to be 15% to 30%
faster on similar hardware though.  :(  Does anyone have numbers for a
dual-CPU system or a fast PPro system?

http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/97challenge/
http://zero.genx.net/

--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 23:10:01 1997
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:09:41 -0800
From: obrien@NUXI.com (David O'Brien)
To: taob@vex.net (Brian Tao)
Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FREEBSD-CHAT-L)
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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> Anyone else dedicating spare cycles (or whole machines) to this effort?  

Yep, there are three groups of us here at UC-Davis having fun with it.
We are kinda compeating with each other.  (anyone want to run with our
groups identity and help me out? ;-) )

> I've got a 200-MHz Pentium cranking out just over 148000 keys
> per second, which is pretty fast compared to numbers posted for
> various Suns, SGI's and RS/6000's 

148000 for a 200-MHz?  I'm betting 130000 on a K5-PR133 (runs at 100MHz).
A single run on a Pentium Pro 200MHz got 181k/sec.

But yes, Intel systems are beating the pants off of the others.  My group
is running on Sun (1+,5,10,20), SGI (Iris, Indigo2), HP (9000/712), 

I did a run on Thud.freebsd.org and got 45k -- that beat out many of the
"bigger" machines.  :-)  Go-o-o-o-o-o Thud!


It's a little long, but here's the output we are getting:

8.6 K   (Sun 4/260)
8.9 K   (Sparc 1+ -- 25MHz)
17 K    (Sparc 2 -- 25MHz)
32 K    (Sparc 10/30 -- 36MHz)
27 K    (Sparc 10/30 -- 36MHz)
33 K    (Sparc 10/30 -- 36MHz)
25 K    (Sparc 5 -- 70MHz)
51 K    (Sparc 5 -- 110MHz)
59 K    (Sparc 5 -- 110MHz)
40 K    (Sparc 20/50 -- 50MHz)
30 K    (Sparc 20/61 -- 60MHz)
40 K    (HP 9000/712 -- 80MHz)
14 K    (Personal DECstation 5000/25 -- 25MHz MIPS R????)
13 K    (SGI Indigo2 R4400 -- 150MHz)
74 K    (SGI Indigo2 R4400 -- 150MHz)  [MAX value]
45 K    (SGI Indy R4600 -- 100MHz)  [60k max]
66 K    (SGI Indy R4600 -- 100MHz)
21 K    (486DX/33)
45 K    (486DX2/66)
45 K    (486DX2/66)
130 K   (AMD K5-PR133 -- 100MHz)
126 K   (Pentium 133MHz)
96 K    (Pentium 133MHz)


-- 
-- David	(obrien@NUXI.com  -or-  obrien@FreeBSD.org)

From owner-freebsd-chat  Thu Feb 27 23:21:03 1997
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Subject: Re: disallow setuid root shells?
To: davidn@labs.usn.blaze.net.au (David Nugent)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 08:19:14 +0100 (MET)
Cc: thomas@ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de, jgreco@solaria.sol.net, chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <19970228024334.05133@usn.blaze.net.au> from David Nugent at "Feb 28, 97 02:43:34 am"
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David Nugent wrote:
> On Feb 02, 1997 at 02:46:31PM, Thomas Gellekum wrote:
> > Joe Greco wrote:
> > >  (/home should
> > > be at least mounted nodev,nosuid as it may be legit for users to have
> > > executables and shell scripts).
> > 
> > You can't be serious.
> 
> ??

Damn, jokes are no fun at all if you have to explain them. ;-)

tg, in a BOFHish mood

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 09:37:49 1997
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Subject: Re: The secret to FreeBSD's success
To: jcwells@u.washington.edu (Jason Wells)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:37:31 -0700 (MST)
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In-Reply-To: <33162A69.2574@u.washington.edu> from "Jason Wells" at Feb 27, 97 04:44:25 pm
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Jason Wells recently blathered:
> 	"God visits us regularly
> 	and contributes software on stone tablets..."
> 
> I personally think that HE would have better luck just writing directly
> to the FreeBSD source tree with his "super-user" access.

Yes, it would also save the 27K of kernel code for the stone tablet
reader device driver, and a lot of time and effort loading the stone
tablets into the reader hopper.  Jordan just daily thanks the
Contributor that he doesn't have to have the stone tablet writer
configured on his machine as well; those hammers are so heavy it takes
192K of code to drive them.  ;^)

-- 
          "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters                                                       Softweyr LLC
http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr                       softweyr@xmission.com

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 17:23:13 1997
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To: Brian Tao <taob@vex.net>
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:05:14 EST."
             <Pine.GSO.3.95.970227195817.26767B-100000@vex.net> 
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I ran this test on my PPRO 200Mhz 3.0-current as of a couple of weeks
ago.

Got this :

{hasty} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.347 seconds. (298812.07 keys/sec)

The result looks to fast for me 8)

So the next question am I am running the reference benchmark correctly?

	Tnks,
	Amancio
	


>From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
>     Anyone else dedicating spare cycles (or whole machines) to this
> effort?  I've got a 200-MHz Pentium cranking out just over 148000 keys
> per second, which is pretty fast compared to numbers posted for
> various Suns, SGI's and RS/6000's (see http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/
> for our particular team effort).  Linux systems seem to be 15% to 30%
> faster on similar hardware though.  :(  Does anyone have numbers for a
> dual-CPU system or a fast PPro system?
> 
> http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/97challenge/
> http://zero.genx.net/
> 
> --
> Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 17:49:02 1997
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Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 02:48:03 +0100 (MET)
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In-Reply-To: <13546.857056798@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Feb 27, 97 07:19:58 am"
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> > 
> > On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> > 
> > > > "langnese" means "long nose" in Norwegian, ie. thumbing your nose at
> > >=20
> > > It also means "ice cream" in German and Italian. :-)
> > 
> > No, it doesn't :) Or I don't know about Italian, cuz I don't speak the
> > language. And you should know that ice cream in German in 'eis' Jordan..
> 
> Clearly a man who's never gone to the movies in Germany. :-)
> 
> Trust me, I was right the first time.  Oh sure, the Italian and German
> dictionaries might say "Gelato" and "Eis", but in terms of what people
> actually order, eat and laugh foolishly at the commercials for, it's
> Langnese. :-)
> 
> 					Jordan
> 
Hi Jordan!

I can't share your opinion.
Langnese is a german corporation selling icecream.
To make it more international: 
  Here in good old austria, ESKIMO (tm) sells the same products!

BTW, ESKIMO alias Langnese is a kind of 'junk-icecream' made out of water instead of milk.
If you visit Vienna someday, don't get an ESKIMO, try one of the excellent italian ice-saloons
or the famouse ice-saloon 'Tichy' in the 10th district!

sers, Alex

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 19:59:47 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:59:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
>
> {hasty} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
> rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.347 seconds. (298812.07 keys/sec)
> 
> The result looks to fast for me 8)
> 
> So the next question am I am running the reference benchmark correctly?

    That looks right to me.  If you're not affiliated with any team
yet, wanna join ours?  :)  We're rsacrack@vex.net... a late start, but
we're moving up pretty quickly.  :)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:00:44 1997
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From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <199703010123.RAA12036@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Feb 28, 97 05:23:30 pm"
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
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> I ran this test on my PPRO 200Mhz 3.0-current as of a couple of weeks
> ago.
> 
> Got this :
> 
> {hasty} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
> rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.347 seconds. (298812.07 keys/sec)
> 
> The result looks to fast for me 8)
> 
> So the next question am I am running the reference benchmark correctly?

	I think that is correct.  Here's what I got, dual PPRO 200, 256K
cache.  (so I assume I could get about twice this if I ran two copies)

{r74h118:/usr/home/ken/dl:23:0} uname -a
FreeBSD r74h118.res.gatech.edu 3.0-SMP FreeBSD 3.0-SMP #0: Mon Jan 27 01:27:38 EST 1997 ken@r74h118.res.gatech.edu:/usr/src/sys-SMP/compile/panzer  i386
{r74h118:/usr/home/ken/dl:24:0} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.300 seconds. (303063.36 keys/sec)


> >From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
> >     Anyone else dedicating spare cycles (or whole machines) to this
> > effort?  I've got a 200-MHz Pentium cranking out just over 148000 keys
> > per second, which is pretty fast compared to numbers posted for
> > various Suns, SGI's and RS/6000's (see http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/
> > for our particular team effort).  Linux systems seem to be 15% to 30%
> > faster on similar hardware though.  :(  Does anyone have numbers for a
> > dual-CPU system or a fast PPro system?
> > 
> > http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/97challenge/
> > http://zero.genx.net/
> > 
> > --
> > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"



Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:00:54 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:56:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: "David O'Brien" <obrien@NUXI.com>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <19970227230941.EQ32133@dragon.nuxi.com>
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On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, David O'Brien wrote:
> 
> Yep, there are three groups of us here at UC-Davis having fun with
> it.  We are kinda compeating with each other.  (anyone want to run
> with our groups identity and help me out? ;-) )

    Well, my team has passed jepace@ucdavis.edu, and we're closing in
on macliffo@engr.ucdavis.edu.  Are either of those you?  :)

> 148000 for a 200-MHz?  I'm betting 130000 on a K5-PR133 (runs at 100MHz).
> A single run on a Pentium Pro 200MHz got 181k/sec.

    Hrm... Amancio reports almost 300000 keys/sec on his PPro200.
Amazingly a Cyrix P133 clocks in at just over 180000 keys/sec running
a recent Linux.  The Cyrix chips seem to do much better overall that
an equivalently-clocked Intel Pentium.

> It's a little long, but here's the output we are getting:
> 
> 8.6 K   (Sun 4/260)
> 8.9 K   (Sparc 1+ -- 25MHz)
> 17 K    (Sparc 2 -- 25MHz)
> 32 K    (Sparc 10/30 -- 36MHz)
> 27 K    (Sparc 10/30 -- 36MHz)
> 33 K    (Sparc 10/30 -- 36MHz)
> 25 K    (Sparc 5 -- 70MHz)
> 51 K    (Sparc 5 -- 110MHz)
> 59 K    (Sparc 5 -- 110MHz)
> 40 K    (Sparc 20/50 -- 50MHz)
> 30 K    (Sparc 20/61 -- 60MHz)
> 40 K    (HP 9000/712 -- 80MHz)
> 14 K    (Personal DECstation 5000/25 -- 25MHz MIPS R????)
> 13 K    (SGI Indigo2 R4400 -- 150MHz)
> 74 K    (SGI Indigo2 R4400 -- 150MHz)  [MAX value]
> 45 K    (SGI Indy R4600 -- 100MHz)  [60k max]
> 66 K    (SGI Indy R4600 -- 100MHz)
> 21 K    (486DX/33)
> 45 K    (486DX2/66)
> 45 K    (486DX2/66)
> 130 K   (AMD K5-PR133 -- 100MHz)
> 126 K   (Pentium 133MHz)
> 96 K    (Pentium 133MHz)

    Our stats are at http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/.  :)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:05:41 1997
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To: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:59:05 EST."
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>From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> >
> > {hasty} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
> > rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> > rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.347 seconds. (298812.07 keys/sec)
> > 
> > The result looks to fast for me 8)
> > 
> > So the next question am I am running the reference benchmark correctly?
> 
>     That looks right to me.  If you're not affiliated with any team
> yet, wanna join ours?  :)  We're rsacrack@vex.net... a late start, but
> we're moving up pretty quickly.  :)

With pleasure 8)

{hasty} ./rc5-client-freebsd -i rsacrack@vex.net
rc5-56-client: Obtaining Key Mask from ``zero.genx.net:2056''.
rc5-56-client: New Media Laboratories, RC5 Key Server
rc5-56-client: Received Keyspace Mask 0x0000000FFFFFFF
rc5-56-client: Start Key 0x6A087CC0000000, trying 268435456 keys.


	Cheers,
	Amancio


> --
> Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:19:27 1997
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:19:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> {hasty} ./rc5-client-freebsd -i rsacrack@vex.net
> rc5-56-client: Obtaining Key Mask from ``zero.genx.net:2056''.
> rc5-56-client: New Media Laboratories, RC5 Key Server
> rc5-56-client: Received Keyspace Mask 0x0000000FFFFFFF
> rc5-56-client: Start Key 0x6A087CC0000000, trying 268435456 keys.

    You rock, sir.  :)  Now I need to convince a friend of mine with
an idle quad Alpha system at work to join us.  He's benchmarked it at
just over 1.02 million keys/sec running 4 concurrent clients.  :)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:21:58 1997
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To: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
cc: taob@vex.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:00:07 EST."
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Can you time two clients 8)

	Cheers,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of "Kenneth D. Merry" :
> 
> > I ran this test on my PPRO 200Mhz 3.0-current as of a couple of weeks
> > ago.
> > 
> > Got this :
> > 
> > {hasty} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
> > rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> > rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.347 seconds. (298812.07 keys/sec)
> > 
> > The result looks to fast for me 8)
> > 
> > So the next question am I am running the reference benchmark correctly?
> 
> 	I think that is correct.  Here's what I got, dual PPRO 200, 256K
> cache.  (so I assume I could get about twice this if I ran two copies)
> 
> {r74h118:/usr/home/ken/dl:23:0} uname -a
> FreeBSD r74h118.res.gatech.edu 3.0-SMP FreeBSD 3.0-SMP #0: Mon Jan 27 01:27:3
8 EST 1997 ken@r74h118.res.gatech.edu:/usr/src/sys-SMP/compile/panzer  i386
> {r74h118:/usr/home/ken/dl:24:0} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
> rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.300 seconds. (303063.36 keys/sec)
> 
> 
> > >From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
> > >     Anyone else dedicating spare cycles (or whole machines) to this
> > > effort?  I've got a 200-MHz Pentium cranking out just over 148000 keys
> > > per second, which is pretty fast compared to numbers posted for
> > > various Suns, SGI's and RS/6000's (see http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/
> > > for our particular team effort).  Linux systems seem to be 15% to 30%
> > > faster on similar hardware though.  :(  Does anyone have numbers for a
> > > dual-CPU system or a fast PPro system?
> > > 
> > > http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/97challenge/
> > > http://zero.genx.net/
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> > > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> 
> 
> 
> Ken
> -- 
> Kenneth Merry
> ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
> Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.



From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:34:34 1997
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From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
Message-Id: <199703010434.XAA01670@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <199703010422.UAA13522@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Feb 28, 97 08:22:08 pm"
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:34:11 -0500 (EST)
Cc: taob@vex.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
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Amancio:

> Can you time two clients 8)

	Here you go:

{r74h118:/usr/home/ken/dl:15:0} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m & ./rc5-client-freebs >
[1] 1972
rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.298 seconds. (303221.98 keys/sec)
rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.301 seconds. (302977.79 keys/sec)
[1] + Done                 ./rc5-client-freebsd -m

	Looks like I get about the same performance per processor.  I ran 
it like this:

./rc5-client-freebsd -m & ./rc5-client-freebsd -m


Ken
--
Kenneth Merry
ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:35:37 1997
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From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
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To: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:
> 
> I think that is correct.  Here's what I got, dual PPRO 200, 256K
> cache.  (so I assume I could get about twice this if I ran two
> copies)

    Yes, it seems to scale quite linearly with the number of CPU's.
csm@sgi.com is running an SGI Origin2000 with 128 CPU's and 2GB of
RAM.  He's benchmarked it at over 20 million keys/sec, but he can't
dedicate the whole machine to it (luckily for the rest of us ;-)).

> {r74h118:/usr/home/ken/dl:23:0} uname -a
> FreeBSD r74h118.res.gatech.edu 3.0-SMP FreeBSD 3.0-SMP #0: Mon Jan 27 01:27:38 EST 1997 ken@r74h118.res.gatech.edu:/usr/src/sys-SMP/compile/panzer  i386
> {r74h118:/usr/home/ken/dl:24:0} ./rc5-client-freebsd -m
> rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> rc5-56-client: Complete in 3.300 seconds. (303063.36 keys/sec)

    Well... I guess I'll make this an open invite:  anyone not already
affiliated with a team is more than welcome to join our little
grassroots effort at rsacrack@vex.net (http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/).
We've got everything from PPro200's down to a wee Sun 3/60 that takes
almost 2 days to complete a single keyblock, and we don't favour one
particular OS over another.  :)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"



From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:51:18 1997
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From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
Message-Id: <199703010450.XAA01812@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970228231917.7982E-100000@alpha.risc.org> from Brian Tao at "Feb 28, 97 11:34:40 pm"
To: taob@risc.org
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Brian Tao wrote..
>     Yes, it seems to scale quite linearly with the number of CPU's.
> csm@sgi.com is running an SGI Origin2000 with 128 CPU's and 2GB of
> RAM.  He's benchmarked it at over 20 million keys/sec, but he can't
> dedicate the whole machine to it (luckily for the rest of us ;-)).

	Wow.  That's pretty big.  :)

>     Well... I guess I'll make this an open invite:  anyone not already
> affiliated with a team is more than welcome to join our little
> grassroots effort at rsacrack@vex.net (http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/).
> We've got everything from PPro200's down to a wee Sun 3/60 that takes
> almost 2 days to complete a single keyblock, and we don't favour one
> particular OS over another.  :)

	Just signed up both of my CPUs...I may try enlisting some machines
from work as well.  :)


Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 20:53:51 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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Don't forget to add your entry to the web page 8)
http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/



	Cheers,
	Amancio


>From The Desk Of "Kenneth D. Merry" :
> Brian Tao wrote..
> >     Yes, it seems to scale quite linearly with the number of CPU's.
> > csm@sgi.com is running an SGI Origin2000 with 128 CPU's and 2GB of
> > RAM.  He's benchmarked it at over 20 million keys/sec, but he can't
> > dedicate the whole machine to it (luckily for the rest of us ;-)).
> 
> 	Wow.  That's pretty big.  :)
> 
> >     Well... I guess I'll make this an open invite:  anyone not already
> > affiliated with a team is more than welcome to join our little
> > grassroots effort at rsacrack@vex.net (http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/).
> > We've got everything from PPro200's down to a wee Sun 3/60 that takes
> > almost 2 days to complete a single keyblock, and we don't favour one
> > particular OS over another.  :)
> 
> 	Just signed up both of my CPUs...I may try enlisting some machines
> from work as well.  :)
> 
> 
> Ken
> -- 
> Kenneth Merry
> ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
> Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.



From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 21:21:16 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <199703010454.UAA13796@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Feb 28, 97 08:54:06 pm"
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 00:20:58 -0500 (EST)
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Amancio wrote..
> Don't forget to add your entry to the web page 8)
> http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/

	Just added my box plus 7 Indigo 2's and a 2-proc Onyx from work..


Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 21:31:26 1997
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To: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
cc: taob@risc.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 00:20:58 EST."
             <199703010520.AAA01929@r74h25.res.gatech.edu> 
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:31:40 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Cool!

I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...


Anyone out there with a quad PPRo 8)


	Cheers,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of "Kenneth D. Merry" :
> Amancio wrote..
> > Don't forget to add your entry to the web page 8)
> > http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/
> 
> 	Just added my box plus 7 Indigo 2's and a 2-proc Onyx from work..
> 
> 
> Ken
> -- 
> Kenneth Merry
> ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
> Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.



From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 21:41:57 1997
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To: Alexander Winkler <alwin@site65.ping.at>
cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: can you teach me to hack 
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             <199703010148.CAA03744@mobile.free.at> 
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:41:51 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> BTW, ESKIMO alias Langnese is a kind of 'junk-icecream' made out of water ins
tead of milk.

Yep!

> If you visit Vienna someday, don't get an ESKIMO, try one of the excellent it
alian ice-saloons
> or the famouse ice-saloon 'Tichy' in the 10th district!

Heh, yes, I've been there several times. :-)
Vienna has many great places to eat, and not just Ice Cream.
I'm probably due for another visit soon..

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 21:56:16 1997
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From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:
> 
> Just signed up both of my CPUs...I may try enlisting some machines
> from work as well.  :)

    Yeah, I noticed.  :)  Too bad Cat's dual-Ultrasparc E3000 server
was ousted from top spot.  ;-)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 22:06:28 1997
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From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...

    Yes, and rumour has it Jordan will be donating a 500-MHz Alpha to
the cause as well.  :)  The page will be much better organized soon,
and we have a mailing list at rsacrack@vex.net if you have any
comments.  To think this team only started out with a handful of
machines only a few days ago... ;-)

New URL:  http://www.vex.net/rsa/

(old one still works)

--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Fri Feb 28 22:10:22 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 01:10:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-Reply-To: <199703010531.VAA13965@rah.star-gate.com>
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    I discovered something interesting tonight... the supplied FreeBSD
binary at texas.net is about 30% faster than the one I compiled from
source using the i486-gcc target:

rc5-56-client: Start Key 0xAF038920000000, trying 268435456 keys.
rc5-56-client: Processed 148861.40 keys per second.
rc5-56-client: Keyspace Exhausted in 30.05 minutes.

... compared to:

rc5-56-client: Start Key 0x98C3A980000000, trying 268435456 keys.
rc5-56-client: Processed 192839.87 keys per second.
rc5-56-client: Keyspace Exhausted in 23.20 minutes

    Anyone know how the binary client was compiled?  The Makefile that
comes with the source has some pretty nasty gcc optimization flags.
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 06:40:42 1997
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From: Cat Okita <cat@uunet.ca>
To: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Brian Tao wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:
> > Just signed up both of my CPUs...I may try enlisting some machines
> > from work as well.  :)
>     Yeah, I noticed.  :)  Too bad Cat's dual-Ultrasparc E3000 server
> was ousted from top spot.  ;-)

*grin* It's nice to see other folks coming in...and really intersting to look
at the differing results...

cheers! 
cat


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 07:00:08 1997
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From: Prisoner <spatula@gulf.net>
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Subject: RC5 RSA contest thing
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Hi all,

   So a lot of us from #freeBSD are participating in the RSA 56 bit key 
cracking contest, and it would be really neat if a lot more FreeBSD types 
joined in with us.  The details can be found at  http://www.vex.net/rsa/ 
for the team we are participating on.  

   If you have a box with some CPU to spare, please join our effort.

   Nick

--
This is not sport, this is MURDER!
  - some stupid animal rights woman in Sarasota screaming outside a
    pidgeon shoot
Nick Johnson, with volterator. http://www.gulf.net/~spatula/


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 09:49:45 1997
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From: Ian Struble <ian@ian.broken.net>
To: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
Cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>,
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Is there a solaris x86 binary anywhere?  I can take over ~20 p166 boxes for
most of the night if you can find one...

Ian

----
There cannot be a crisis next week.  My schedule is already full.
                -- Henry Kissinger

----

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 11:27:44 1997
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Message-Id: <199703011926.OAA01196@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: taob@risc.org (Brian Tao)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 14:26:57 -0500 (EST)
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu,
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> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > 
> > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> 
I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
times (especially when I work on it :-)).

John

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 11:41:28 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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Hi,
I too will be running my client at nights . Right now I am tweaking my box 8)
rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
rc5-56-client: Complete in 2.838 seconds. (352389.25 keys/sec)

Cheers,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of "John S. Dyson" :
> > On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > 
> > > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > 
> I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> 
> John



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 11:51:59 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 14:26:57 EST."
             <199703011926.OAA01196@dyson.iquest.net> 
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Anyone out there with a very fast PPro which cares to run the benchmark?

This would probably be someone with fast EDO 60ns or better and clocking
the bus speed at 75Mhz or 83Mhz.

	Cheers,
	Amancio



>From The Desk Of "John S. Dyson" :
> > On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > 
> > > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > 
> I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> 
> John



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 12:19:48 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:19:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199703012019.PAA01127@crh.cl.msu.edu>
To: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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In lists.freebsd.chat you write:

>> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
>> >
>> > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
>>
>I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
>know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
>times (especially when I work on it :-)).

How does one get 233 Mhz out of a PPro system?

-Crh
-- 

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 12:34:42 1997
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Message-Id: <199703012034.PAA01318@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:34:34 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
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> 
> In lists.freebsd.chat you write:
> 
> >> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> >>
> >I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> >know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> >times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> 
> How does one get 233 Mhz out of a PPro system?
> 
I am running a Supermicro P6DNF (hope to add another processor
when the single-processor work dies down, to assist in the SMP
work/optimization.)  The P6DNF has the following jumpers (from the 'net'):


>From - Wed Nov 20 22:03:26 1996
Path: szdc-e!super.zippo.com!zdc-e!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dfw.net!news
From: ottoman@gte.net (Ron Gazaway)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.supermicro
Subject: Re: Overclocking PPro 200 to 233 on P6DNE?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 12:50:40 GMT
Organization: Ottoman Technologies
Lines: 74
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <56uur0$7di@fnord.dfw.net>
References: <56kp7q$9bm@newsops.execpc.com> <32911B60.3E6A@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz> <01bbd6df$118376e0$3ba377c2@mjs.u-net.com>
Reply-To: ottoman@gte.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigboy.ottotech.com
X-Newsreader: News for Windows NT X1.0-92

To the best of my knowledge (verifications performed on P6DNF)

			BaseFreq.	Clock Multiplier	
			------------	----------------------------
Base 	Mult	CPU 	JP36	JP37	JP32	JP31	JP30	JP29	Verified
Freq.		Clock
----	----	----	----	----	----	----	----	----	--------
60	2	120	1	0	1	1	1	1	No
66	2	132	0	1	1	1	1	1	Yes
60	2.5	150	1	0	1	1	1	0	Yes
66	2.5	165	0	1	1	1	1	0	Yes
60	3	180	1	0	1	1	0	1	Yes
66	3	198	0	1	1	1	0	1	Yes
60	3.5	210	1	0	1	1	0	0	No
66	3.5	231	0	1	1	1	0	0	Yes
60	4	240	1	0	1	0	1	1	Yes
66	4	264	0	1	1	0	1	1	No


	Base Frequency			CPU Clock Multiplier		
MHz	JP36	JP37		Mult.	JP32	JP31	JP30	JP29	
60	1	0		2	1	1	1	1	
66	0	1		2.5	1	1	1	0	
				3	1	1	0	1	
				3.5	1	1	0	0	
				4	1	0	1	1	
				4.5	1	0	1	0	
				5	1	0	0	1	
				5.5	1	0	0	0	
				6	0	1	1	1	
													
													
Note that the bios startup screen does not always report the correct speed,
you'll need verify the speed by running some test program that is purely
CPU Clock dependent.


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 12:38:53 1997
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From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199703012038.PAA01209@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:38:32 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199703012034.PAA01318@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at "Mar 1, 97 03:34:34 pm"
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> >
> > In lists.freebsd.chat you write:
> >
> > >> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > >>
> > >I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> > >know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> > >times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> >
> > How does one get 233 Mhz out of a PPro system?
> >
> I am running a Supermicro P6DNF (hope to add another processor
> when the single-processor work dies down, to assist in the SMP
> work/optimization.)  The P6DNF has the following jumpers (from the 'net'):
>

Im assuming you twiddled the jumpers to get the higher rate, what gives you
confidence that your not going to smoke your CPU? :)

-Crh

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 12:52:17 1997
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From: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
Message-Id: <199703012052.PAA01536@dyson.iquest.net>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:52:07 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199703012038.PAA01209@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Mar 1, 97 03:38:32 pm
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> > >
> > > In lists.freebsd.chat you write:
> > >
> > > >> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > > >>
> > > >I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> > > >know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> > > >times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> > >
> > > How does one get 233 Mhz out of a PPro system?
> > >
> > I am running a Supermicro P6DNF (hope to add another processor
> > when the single-processor work dies down, to assist in the SMP
> > work/optimization.)  The P6DNF has the following jumpers (from the 'net'):
> >
> 
> Im assuming you twiddled the jumpers to get the higher rate, what gives you
> confidence that your not going to smoke your CPU? :)
> 
The processor isn't running hot, and additionally, most of the CPUs will
work at 233.  I don't suggest that other's do it, but I do :-).  When running
benchmarks, I either back the speed down to 200MHz or clearly state the
freq that I am running at.

John

John

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 13:02:18 1997
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From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby)
Message-Id: <199703012102.NAA00547@lightside.com>
To: taob@risc.org, ian@ian.broken.net
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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> Is there a solaris x86 binary anywhere?  I can take over ~20 p166 boxes for
> most of the night if you can find one...
> 
> Ian

If somebody can point me at the source, I'll gladly build a Solaris/x86 binary 
(with Pentium or PPro optimizations if you like :-).  Of course, since Solaris 
is SVR4, the same binary works on UnixWare or NCR SVR4 as well.

But according to the FTP site at zero.genx.net, due to people SYN flooding the 
participants, they aren't releasing source to the crypto client anymore. :-(  
I'll send them E-Mail and see if they'd be willing to let me build a Solaris/x86 
binary for you.

-- Jake

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 13:12:52 1997
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To: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson), freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 15:38:32 EST."
             <199703012038.PAA01209@crh.cl.msu.edu> 
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From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Please check out :
http://sysdoc.pair.com/

And look at the overclocking section.

	Amancio

>From The Desk Of Charles Henrich :
> > >
> > > In lists.freebsd.chat you write:
> > >
> > > >> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > > >>
> > > >I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> > > >know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> > > >times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> > >
> > > How does one get 233 Mhz out of a PPro system?
> > >
> > I am running a Supermicro P6DNF (hope to add another processor
> > when the single-processor work dies down, to assist in the SMP
> > work/optimization.)  The P6DNF has the following jumpers (from the 'net'):
> >
> 
> Im assuming you twiddled the jumpers to get the higher rate, what gives you
> confidence that your not going to smoke your CPU? :)
> 
> -Crh
> 
>        Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu
> 
>                          http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 13:26:50 1997
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On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> > BTW, ESKIMO alias Langnese is a kind of 'junk-icecream' made out of water ins
> tead of milk.
> 
> Yep!
> 
> > If you visit Vienna someday, don't get an ESKIMO, try one of the excellent it
> alian ice-saloons
> > or the famouse ice-saloon 'Tichy' in the 10th district!
> 
> Heh, yes, I've been there several times. :-)
> Vienna has many great places to eat, and not just Ice Cream.
> I'm probably due for another visit soon..

Q: How do you know when you're reading freebsd-chat?
A: When a thread about "hacking" turns into a discussion of the relative
   merits of different kinds of Viennese ice cream.

:)
 
> 					Jordan
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 13:42:38 1997
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 13:35:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Ian Struble <ian@ian.broken.net>
To: (Jake Hamby) <jehamby@lightside.com>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
Cc: obrien@NUXI.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, taob@risc.org
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>If somebody can point me at the source, I'll gladly build a Solaris/x86 binary 
>(with Pentium or PPro optimizations if you like :-).  Of course, since Solaris 
>is SVR4, the same binary works on UnixWare or NCR SVR4 as well.
>
>But according to the FTP site at zero.genx.net, due to people SYN flooding the 
>participants, they aren't releasing source to the crypto client anymore. :-(  
>I'll send them E-Mail and see if they'd be willing to let me build a
Solaris/x86 
>binary for you.

I wrote to them too and let them know that they should try to get a solaris x86
binary compiled somewhere when they release the newer style client.  I guess
you went one step further :)  I'm sure they will have one with people
buggingthem and you offering to compile it.

Ian

----
What is a magician but a practising theorist?
                -- Obi-Wan Kenobi

----

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 14:47:27 1997
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	(message from Prisoner on Sat, 1 Mar 1997 09:00:04 -0600 (CST))
Subject: Re: RC5 RSA contest thing
From: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu>
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I have one nearly completely idle FreeBSD box (does nothing but
compile my hacks), and one fairly idle RS/6000 at work.  However,
neither of these have direct access to the net.  Is there any way for
them to help under these circumstances?

Best,
joelh

-- 
http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu
All my opinions are my own, not the FSF's, my employer's, or my dog's.

Second law of programming:
Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 15:11:22 1997
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From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FREEBSD-CHAT-L)
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
References: <199703010400.XAA01541@r74h25.res.gatech.edu> <Pine.BSF.3.95.970228231917.7982E-100000@alpha.risc.org>
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According to Brian Tao:
>     Well... I guess I'll make this an open invite:  anyone not already
> affiliated with a team is more than welcome to join our little
> grassroots effort at rsacrack@vex.net (http://www.vex.net/~rasmus/rsa/).

I signed up as "rsacrack@vex.net" for two machines now (my 486DX4 and a P60
under Linux). I'll try to get more machines later :-)
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 15:23:06 1997
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To: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 01:06:08 EST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301010437.7982G-100000@alpha.risc.org> 
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Hi Brian,

Have you considered posting on the freebsd newsgroup?

	Cheers,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > 
> > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> 
>     Yes, and rumour has it Jordan will be donating a 500-MHz Alpha to
> the cause as well.  :)  The page will be much better organized soon,
> and we have a mailing list at rsacrack@vex.net if you have any
> comments.  To think this team only started out with a handful of
> machines only a few days ago... ;-)
> 
> New URL:  http://www.vex.net/rsa/
> 
> (old one still works)
> 
> --
> Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 15:52:10 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:50:44 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
cc: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>, hasty@rah.star-gate.com,
        ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <199703011926.OAA01196@dyson.iquest.net>
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, John S. Dyson wrote:

> > On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > 
> > > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > 
> I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> times (especially when I work on it :-)).
>

	I've just added (well, earlier this afternoon) my P133 to the
mix, but was just wondering...would it make any difference if someone
were to create a pgcc/pentium optimized version?

	On top of that...what is this -i option that the client site is 
talking about?   



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 15:53:33 1997
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        ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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             <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301194844.16024u-100000@thelab.hub.org> 
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Thats a good question !

I would try it out.

	Amancio

>From The Desk Of The Hermit Hacker :
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, John S. Dyson wrote:
> 
> > > On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > > 
> > I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> > know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> > times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> >
> 
> 	I've just added (well, earlier this afternoon) my P133 to the
> mix, but was just wondering...would it make any difference if someone
> were to create a pgcc/pentium optimized version?
> 
> 	On top of that...what is this -i option that the client site is 
> talking about?   
> 
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 16:09:56 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:09:36 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> 
> Thats a good question !
> 
> I would try it out.
>

	After asking, I popped over to the http site for genx.com and
grabbed the source code...changed -m486 to -mpentium inside of the Makefile
and recompiled/tested it...came out about 10k/sec slower...

	There *is* a define for ASM_I486 though, which is used inside of
client.h, and does as follows.  Anyone with a good knowledge of Pentiums
out there this weekend that can suggest a Pentium version for this?

 
<stuff cut out>
#if defined(ASM_I486) && defined(__GNUC__)

static __inline__ RC5_WORD ROTL(RC5_WORD x, RC5_WORD y)
{
	register RC5_WORD res;

	__asm__ __volatile(
		"roll %%cl,%0\n\t"
		:"=g" (res)
		:"0" (x), "cx" (y)
		:"cx");

	return res;
}

static __inline__ RC5_WORD ROTL3(RC5_WORD x)
{
	register RC5_WORD res;

	__asm__ __volatile(
		"roll $3,%0\n\t"
		:"=g" (res)
		:"0" (x));

	return res;
}

#elif defined(ASM_SPARC) && defined(__GNUC__)
<stuff cut out>


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 16:22:29 1997
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From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199703020022.TAA00847@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:22:07 -0500 (EST)
Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199703012112.NAA00686@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Mar 1, 97 01:12:38 pm"
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Well I just added myself to the computer test, only getting about 300k keys/sec
out of my beast.  Need to find those cool jumpers!

-Crh

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 16:31:19 1997
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To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 20:09:36 -0400."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301200554.16024w-100000@thelab.hub.org> 
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Have you try it with ASM_I486 defined?

	Tnks,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of The Hermit Hacker :
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Thats a good question !
> > 
> > I would try it out.
> >
> 
> 	After asking, I popped over to the http site for genx.com and
> grabbed the source code...changed -m486 to -mpentium inside of the Makefile
> and recompiled/tested it...came out about 10k/sec slower...
> 
> 	There *is* a define for ASM_I486 though, which is used inside of
> client.h, and does as follows.  Anyone with a good knowledge of Pentiums
> out there this weekend that can suggest a Pentium version for this?
> 
>  
> <stuff cut out>
> #if defined(ASM_I486) && defined(__GNUC__)
> 
> static __inline__ RC5_WORD ROTL(RC5_WORD x, RC5_WORD y)
> {
> 	register RC5_WORD res;
> 
> 	__asm__ __volatile(
> 		"roll %%cl,%0\n\t"
> 		:"=g" (res)
> 		:"0" (x), "cx" (y)
> 		:"cx");
> 
> 	return res;
> }
> 
> static __inline__ RC5_WORD ROTL3(RC5_WORD x)
> {
> 	register RC5_WORD res;
> 
> 	__asm__ __volatile(
> 		"roll $3,%0\n\t"
> 		:"=g" (res)
> 		:"0" (x));
> 
> 	return res;
> }
> 
> #elif defined(ASM_SPARC) && defined(__GNUC__)
> <stuff cut out>
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 17:00:51 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:00:34 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-Reply-To: <199703020031.QAA00365@rah.star-gate.com>
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> Have you try it with ASM_I486 defined?
>
	Yup, I only changed the -m486 to -mpentium, leaving the
ASM_I486 defined...

	And, since you sort of mentioned it, I've tried disabling it,
which is even more disastrous...

	rc5-client-freebsd (the binary) does ~128500keys/sec
	client (-mpentium compiled w/pgcc-current) does ~58816keys/sec  


> 	Tnks,
> 	Amancio
> 
> >From The Desk Of The Hermit Hacker :
> > On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Thats a good question !
> > > 
> > > I would try it out.
> > >
> > 
> > 	After asking, I popped over to the http site for genx.com and
> > grabbed the source code...changed -m486 to -mpentium inside of the Makefile
> > and recompiled/tested it...came out about 10k/sec slower...
> > 
> > 	There *is* a define for ASM_I486 though, which is used inside of
> > client.h, and does as follows.  Anyone with a good knowledge of Pentiums
> > out there this weekend that can suggest a Pentium version for this?
> > 
> >  
> > <stuff cut out>
> > #if defined(ASM_I486) && defined(__GNUC__)
> > 
> > static __inline__ RC5_WORD ROTL(RC5_WORD x, RC5_WORD y)
> > {
> > 	register RC5_WORD res;
> > 
> > 	__asm__ __volatile(
> > 		"roll %%cl,%0\n\t"
> > 		:"=g" (res)
> > 		:"0" (x), "cx" (y)
> > 		:"cx");
> > 
> > 	return res;
> > }
> > 
> > static __inline__ RC5_WORD ROTL3(RC5_WORD x)
> > {
> > 	register RC5_WORD res;
> > 
> > 	__asm__ __volatile(
> > 		"roll $3,%0\n\t"
> > 		:"=g" (res)
> > 		:"0" (x));
> > 
> > 	return res;
> > }
> > 
> > #elif defined(ASM_SPARC) && defined(__GNUC__)
> > <stuff cut out>
> > 
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 17:02:08 1997
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Message-ID: <19970302014344.GW57645@keltia.freenix.fr>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:43:44 +0100
From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
References: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301200554.16024w-100000@thelab.hub.org> <199703020031.QAA00365@rah.star-gate.com>
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According to Amancio Hasty:
> Have you try it with ASM_I486 defined?

I think the -i is maybe for using "inline" asm for some instructions.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT    -=- The daemon is FREE! -=-    roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
  FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb  2 22:12:44 CET 1997

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 17:54:38 1997
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To: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 15:19:07 EST."
             <199703012019.PAA01127@crh.cl.msu.edu> 
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 17:54:22 -0800
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> How does one get 233 Mhz out of a PPro system?

Just up the clock speed on a 200Mhz part. :-)

					Jordan

P.S. This actually works pretty well in every case where I've
tried it.  Methinks the 200Mhz parts are overspec'd.


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 17:58:07 1997
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To: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 15:38:32 EST."
             <199703012038.PAA01209@crh.cl.msu.edu> 
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 17:57:47 -0800
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> Im assuming you twiddled the jumpers to get the higher rate, what gives you
> confidence that your not going to smoke your CPU? :)

Intel, actually. :) According to what I've heard, even when you get
the chip hot enough to cause it to shut down, all you have to do is
wait for it to cool down and it's back in business with no ill
effects.  I think John tried some pretty hallucinatory clock speeds
in his own case before finally settling on 233 as the only reliable
overclock setting. :-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 18:06:59 1997
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From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199703020206.VAA02560@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:06:54 -0500 (EST)
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It looks like they are about to release a new binary-only key tester, if they
rezero the stats because of the change, shouldnt we start up a freebsd.org
team?

On another paranoia thought:  Now that best.net has several thousand machines
grinding on keys, wouldnt it be a neat trick for them to turn that compute
power to whatever they wanted? :)  Who would be any the wiser!  Lets crack
passwords shall we!  Zing!  Maybe some softer longer keys.. zing! :)  hee hee.

-Crh

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 18:12:44 1997
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To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert)
cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org (FREEBSD-CHAT-L)
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 02 Mar 1997 00:10:30 +0100."
             <19970302001030.SW27471@keltia.freenix.fr> 
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 18:12:34 -0800
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> I signed up as "rsacrack@vex.net" for two machines now (my 486DX4 and a P60
> under Linux). I'll try to get more machines later :-)

Pity there's no Linux/ALPHA binary - I had to scrap my plans to
throw the ALPHA into the fray for this reason (and there's no
sources to build my own from) :-(

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 18:25:21 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:24:23 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>,
        "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> > Im assuming you twiddled the jumpers to get the higher rate, what gives you
> > confidence that your not going to smoke your CPU? :)
> 
> Intel, actually. :) According to what I've heard, even when you get
> the chip hot enough to cause it to shut down, all you have to do is
> wait for it to cool down and it's back in business with no ill
> effects.  I think John tried some pretty hallucinatory clock speeds
> in his own case before finally settling on 233 as the only reliable
> overclock setting. :-)
>
	Anyone have any similar over-clock recommentation for the P133? :)
More power/speed is always nice...


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 18:34:24 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:33:18 -0400 (AST)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
cc: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>,
        FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:

> > I signed up as "rsacrack@vex.net" for two machines now (my 486DX4 and a P60
> > under Linux). I'll try to get more machines later :-)
> 
> Pity there's no Linux/ALPHA binary - I had to scrap my plans to
> throw the ALPHA into the fray for this reason (and there's no
> sources to build my own from) :-(
> 
> 					Jordan
> 


	Not sure where everyone is looking, but I got my sources 
from:

	http://www.texas.net/rc5/rc5-client-2.01.tar.gz

	I *just* checked to confirm, and its still there...


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 18:44:14 1997
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        "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: How To Overclock your CPU ( Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge )
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 22:24:23 -0400."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301222350.16024D-100000@thelab.hub.org> 
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 18:43:46 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Please checkout the "Performance" section on this web page:

http://sysdoc.pair.com/


It also has good pointers for building a fast PC...

	Enjoy,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of The Hermit Hacker :
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> 
> > > Im assuming you twiddled the jumpers to get the higher rate, what gives y
ou
> > > confidence that your not going to smoke your CPU? :)
> > 
> > Intel, actually. :) According to what I've heard, even when you get
> > the chip hot enough to cause it to shut down, all you have to do is
> > wait for it to cool down and it's back in business with no ill
> > effects.  I think John tried some pretty hallucinatory clock speeds
> > in his own case before finally settling on 233 as the only reliable
> > overclock setting. :-)
> >
> 	Anyone have any similar over-clock recommentation for the P133? :)
> More power/speed is always nice...
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 19:03:40 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:00:56 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>,
        "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>, Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>,
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, John S. Dyson wrote:
> 
> > > On Fri, 28 Feb 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I also saw Dyson's box PPro 233 Mhz clocking at 352k ...
> > > 
> > I'll be running my machine at nights and when I am away.  You
> > know that kernel work does necessitate lots of reboots at
> > times (especially when I work on it :-)).
> >
> 
> 	I've just added (well, earlier this afternoon) my P133 to the
> mix, but was just wondering...would it make any difference if someone
> were to create a pgcc/pentium optimized version?
> 
> 	On top of that...what is this -i option that the client site is 
> talking about?   

I don't know, but the source code version won't accept it.  Frustrating,
I've got almost a million points worth of machine that I can donate for
the weekend, but most of them are timing out trying to get keys.

Oh, and the executables are linked against libc-3.0, so my two power
machines (P6/166 running 2.1.7) will be out of the running when they go to
binary-only clients.


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 19:16:46 1997
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To: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 21:06:54 EST."
             <199703020206.VAA02560@crh.cl.msu.edu> 
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 19:16:30 -0800
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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
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> It looks like they are about to release a new binary-only key tester, if they
> rezero the stats because of the change, shouldnt we start up a freebsd.org
> team?

I was kind of thinking that... :-)

It would be good PR, if nothing else.

> On another paranoia thought:  Now that best.net has several thousand machines
> grinding on keys, wouldnt it be a neat trick for them to turn that compute
> power to whatever they wanted? :)  Who would be any the wiser!  Lets crack
> passwords shall we!  Zing!  Maybe some softer longer keys.. zing! :)  hee hee
.

Hey, if you have a new tool, you try and use it! :-)

					Jordan

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 19:31:42 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:29:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>,
        FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
>
> I too will be running my client at nights . Right now I am tweaking my box 8)
> rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> rc5-56-client: Complete in 2.838 seconds. (352389.25 keys/sec)

    Hmmmm... think it would be possible to squeeze 400000 keys/sec out
of an Intel CPU?  :)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 19:37:18 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 22:29:25 EST."
             <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301222850.439C-100000@alpha.risc.org> 
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Yeap,

If the PC has fast EDO or SDRAM it should be possible. I am pretty sure
that the processor is starving for memory bandwith.

Now a quad PPro equip with fast SDRAM will be something wild to watch 8)




Again, anyone out there with a  fast PPRO with fast EDO (60 ns or better)... ??

	Cheers,
	Amancio

>From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> >
> > I too will be running my client at nights . Right now I am tweaking my box 
8)
> > rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> > rc5-56-client: Complete in 2.838 seconds. (352389.25 keys/sec)
> 
>     Hmmmm... think it would be possible to squeeze 400000 keys/sec out
> of an Intel CPU?  :)
> --
> Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 19:40:47 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:40:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Jake Hamby <jehamby@lightside.com>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <199703012102.NAA00547@lightside.com>
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Jake Hamby wrote:
> 
> If somebody can point me at the source, I'll gladly build a
> Solaris/x86 binary (with Pentium or PPro optimizations if you like
> :-).

    You can e-mail rc5-56@genx.net and request that a Solaris x86
binary be made available (or offer your services in maintaining one
for them).  The only source I can find is significantly slower than
the binaries they provide, but you can try it anyway:

http://www.texas.net/rc5/rc5-client-2.01.tar.gz

--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 20:01:16 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: taob@risc.org (Brian Tao)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:01:09 -0800 (PST)
Cc: jehamby@lightside.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301223528.439D-100000@alpha.risc.org> from "Brian Tao" at Mar 1, 97 10:40:18 pm
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Brian Tao wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Jake Hamby wrote:
> > 
> > If somebody can point me at the source, I'll gladly build a
> > Solaris/x86 binary (with Pentium or PPro optimizations if you like
> > :-).
> 
>     You can e-mail rc5-56@genx.net and request that a Solaris x86
> binary be made available (or offer your services in maintaining one
> for them).  The only source I can find is significantly slower than
> the binaries they provide, but you can try it anyway:
> 
> http://www.texas.net/rc5/rc5-client-2.01.tar.gz

	what have they dont to speed up the FreeBSD
	binary?   tried compiling my own but it signifcantly slower ;(

./rc5-client -m
rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
rc5-56-client: Complete in 11.810 seconds. (84670.57 keys/sec)

./rc5-client-freebsd -m
rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
rc5-56-client: Complete in 10.903 seconds. (91715.20 keys/sec)

	cpu is an amd5x86-133
jmb

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 20:11:09 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 23:10:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Joel Ray Holveck <joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: RC5 RSA contest thing
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Joel Ray Holveck wrote:
>
> I have one nearly completely idle FreeBSD box (does nothing but
> compile my hacks), and one fairly idle RS/6000 at work.  However,
> neither of these have direct access to the net.  Is there any way
> for them to help under these circumstances?

    Are they behind a firewall?  There are socksified clients
available.
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 20:26:02 1997
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From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> 
> On top of that...what is this -i option that the client site is
> talking about?   

    "Identity"... it seems redundant, since you can use "./client
rsacrack@vex.net" or "./client -i rsacrack@vex.net" and both work.
I hope they put in more verbose information in the next version of the
client (e.g., confirmation of your identity).
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 20:35:04 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 20:33:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>, "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>,
        FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-Reply-To: <199703020335.TAA00350@rah.star-gate.com>
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> Again, anyone out there with a  fast PPRO with fast EDO (60 ns or better)... ??

Well, a P150 overclocked to 166 with 60ns EDO benchmarked at 285K/sec, if
that's any help.



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 20:46:34 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 01 Mar 1997 20:33:48 PST."
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 20:45:57 -0800
From: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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>From The Desk Of "Eric J. Schwertfeger" :
> 
> 
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> > Again, anyone out there with a  fast PPRO with fast EDO (60 ns or better)..
. ??
> 
> Well, a P150 overclocked to 166 with 60ns EDO benchmarked at 285K/sec, if
> that's any help.
> 
> 

yes, that is of help...


Now if we can get a PPro 200Mhz overclocked to 233 and 60ns EDO benchmarked
we may be able to see 400k/sec.

This benchmark may actually help to push for a reference high speed 
FreeBSD box.

	Regards,
	Amancio



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 21:03:38 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote:

> 
> 
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> > Again, anyone out there with a  fast PPRO with fast EDO (60 ns or better)... ??
> 
> Well, a P150 overclocked to 166 with 60ns EDO benchmarked at 285K/sec, if
> that's any help.

You guys have been discussing overclocking ... I have a p6/166, would it
be reasonably safe for me to experiment with overclocking this guy to 200?
I got this system from parts I got from here and there, with special
attention to fans (it's loud but cool).  I have 3 chassis fans in the box,
along with the two cpu fans (1 per cpu, it's a Tyan Titan pro with 2
cpus).  I don't want to overclock to 180, that pushes the bus speed down
to 60 MHz, doesn't it?


----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chuckr@eng.umd.edu          | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
9120 Edmonston Ct #302      |
Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD
(301) 220-2114              | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN!
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 21:41:13 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:40:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>, "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>,
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> 
> Yeap,
> 
> If the PC has fast EDO or SDRAM it should be possible. I am pretty sure
> that the processor is starving for memory bandwith.
> 
> Now a quad PPro equip with fast SDRAM will be something wild to watch 8)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, anyone out there with a  fast PPRO with fast EDO (60 ns or better)... ??

Yeah.  At least, I *think* it's 60 ns RAM -- I bought the box last
August, and it's a Micron, it's probably 60 ns, don't you think?

So how do I join?

> 	Cheers,
> 	Amancio
> 
> >From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
> > On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > >
> > > I too will be running my client at nights . Right now I am tweaking my box 
> 8)
> > > rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> > > rc5-56-client: Complete in 2.838 seconds. (352389.25 keys/sec)
> > 
> >     Hmmmm... think it would be possible to squeeze 400000 keys/sec out
> > of an Intel CPU?  :)
> > --
> > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> > 
> 
> 
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 21:44:22 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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Check out :

 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 09:00:04 -0600 (CST)
 From: Prisoner <spatula@gulf.net>
 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
 Subject: RC5 RSA contest thing

Hi all,

   So a lot of us from #freeBSD are participating in the RSA 56 bit key 
cracking contest, and it would be really neat if a lot more FreeBSD types 
joined in with us.  The details can be found at  http://www.vex.net/rsa/ 
for the team we are participating on.  

   If you have a box with some CPU to spare, please join our effort.

   Nick

--
This is not sport, this is MURDER!
  - some stupid animal rights woman in Sarasota screaming outside a
    pidgeon shoot
Nick Johnson, with volterator. http://www.gulf.net/~spatula/
--


>From The Desk Of Snob Art Genre :
> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Yeap,
> > 
> > If the PC has fast EDO or SDRAM it should be possible. I am pretty sure
> > that the processor is starving for memory bandwith.
> > 
> > Now a quad PPro equip with fast SDRAM will be something wild to watch 8)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Again, anyone out there with a  fast PPRO with fast EDO (60 ns or better)..
. ??
> 
> Yeah.  At least, I *think* it's 60 ns RAM -- I bought the box last
> August, and it's a Micron, it's probably 60 ns, don't you think?
> 
> So how do I join?
> 
> > 	Cheers,
> > 	Amancio
> > 
> > >From The Desk Of Brian Tao :
> > > On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I too will be running my client at nights . Right now I am tweaking my 
box 
> > 8)
> > > > rc5-56-client: Performance testing with 1000000 crypts
> > > > rc5-56-client: Complete in 2.838 seconds. (352389.25 keys/sec)
> > > 
> > >     Hmmmm... think it would be possible to squeeze 400000 keys/sec out
> > > of an Intel CPU?  :)
> > > --
> > > Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> > > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>  Ben
> 
> "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
> 



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 21:44:27 1997
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From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199703020544.AAA07077@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 00:44:03 -0500 (EST)
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>> It looks like they are about to release a new binary-only key tester, if the
>> rezero the stats because of the change, shouldnt we start up a freebsd.org
>> team?
>
> I was kind of thinking that... :-)

hackers@freebsd.org shall it be? :)

-Crh

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 22:05:29 1997
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:04:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Charles Henrich wrote:
> 
> hackers@freebsd.org shall it be? :)

    Is this going to be limited to FreeBSD machines only or what?  I
know rsacrack@vex.net isn't FreeBSD-specific but 58 of the machines on
the list run FreeBSD, which is best represented OS.  :)  I would
prefer it if we stuck with the current team, given its momentum, and
it's just cool being able to see the diversity of hardware.  I bet
we're one of the few teams with an MkLinux PowerMac, and the only team
with an Ascend GRF 400 router doing 82000 keys/sec.  ;-)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 22:12:13 1997
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From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199703020611.BAA07166@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: taob@risc.org (Brian Tao)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:11:41 -0500 (EST)
Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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> > hackers@freebsd.org shall it be? :)
>
>     Is this going to be limited to FreeBSD machines only or what?  I
> know rsacrack@vex.net isn't FreeBSD-specific but 58 of the machines on
> the list run FreeBSD, which is best represented OS.  :)  I would
> prefer it if we stuck with the current team, given its momentum, and
> it's just cool being able to see the diversity of hardware.  I bet
> we're one of the few teams with an MkLinux PowerMac, and the only team
> with an Ascend GRF 400 router doing 82000 keys/sec.  ;-)

I would say welcome anyone and anything with the FreeBSD spirit :)  Im only
suggesting this if they reset the stats, which they may not do of course.
Perhaps if they dont reset them we should get vex to be the FreeBSD team anyway
:)

-Crh

       Charles Henrich     Michigan State University     henrich@msu.edu

                         http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 22:33:24 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:28:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: Amancio Hasty <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
cc: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>, "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>,
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:

> The details can be found at  http://www.vex.net/rsa/ 
> for the team we are participating on.  

Well, narcissus and I are on board.  I have gotten this message, though: 

get_keyspace: Operation timed out
rc5-56-client: Error getting key.
rc5-56-client: Sleeping 10 minutes...

Anything to worry about?  I guess I should wait and see if it happens
again.  I amped the rc5-client off the the background -- that shouldn't
make any difference, should it?


 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 22:37:44 1997
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Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
To: ben@narcissus.ml.org (Snob Art Genre)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:37:23 -0500 (EST)
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> On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> 
> > The details can be found at  http://www.vex.net/rsa/ 
> > for the team we are participating on.  
> 
> Well, narcissus and I are on board.  I have gotten this message, though: 
> 
> get_keyspace: Operation timed out
> rc5-56-client: Error getting key.
> rc5-56-client: Sleeping 10 minutes...
> 
> Anything to worry about?  I guess I should wait and see if it happens
> again.  I amped the rc5-client off the the background -- that shouldn't
> make any difference, should it?
> 
> 
I just started to re-enable my system (it is 01:36 my time -- sleepy time),
and am getting the same message.

John

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 22:49:18 1997
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Message-Id: <199703020647.BAA08180@r74h25.res.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970302005857.439H-100000@alpha.risc.org> from Brian Tao at "Mar 2, 97 01:04:42 am"
To: taob@risc.org (Brian Tao)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:47:40 -0500 (EST)
Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
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> On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Charles Henrich wrote:
> > 
> > hackers@freebsd.org shall it be? :)
> 
>     Is this going to be limited to FreeBSD machines only or what?  I
> know rsacrack@vex.net isn't FreeBSD-specific but 58 of the machines on
> the list run FreeBSD, which is best represented OS.  :)  I would
> prefer it if we stuck with the current team, given its momentum, and
> it's just cool being able to see the diversity of hardware.  I bet
> we're one of the few teams with an MkLinux PowerMac, and the only team
> with an Ascend GRF 400 router doing 82000 keys/sec.  ;-)

	Hehe.  The MkLinux machine is a few doors down from me.  :) 


Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@r74h25.res.gatech.edu
Disclaimer:  I don't speak for GTRI, GT, or Elvis.

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 22:54:33 1997
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From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:00:45 1997
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From: obrien@NUXI.com (David O'Brien)
To: ejs@bfd.com (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
References: <199703012353.PAA01640@rah.star-gate.com> <Pine.BSF.3.95.970301185652.22912A-100000@harlie.bfd.com>
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> > 	On top of that...what is this -i option that the client site is 
> > talking about?   

That is an option for the 1st version of the client.  You used to use
that specify your "identity".  Now it is a just parameter (not an
option).
 
> Oh, and the executables are linked against libc-3.0, so my two power
> machines (P6/166 running 2.1.7) will be out of the running when they go to
> binary-only clients.

Just link your libc.so.2.2 to libc.so.3.0.  You probably won't see any
problems.  I don't think rc5-client-* uses a whole lot from libc anyway.
 
-- 
-- David	(obrien@NUXI.com  -or-  obrien@FreeBSD.org)

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:04:03 1997
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 02:03:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Charles Henrich wrote:
> 
> I would say welcome anyone and anything with the FreeBSD spirit :)
> Im only suggesting this if they reset the stats, which they may not
> do of course.  Perhaps if they dont reset them we should get vex to
> be the FreeBSD team anyway :)

	It looks that way right now anyway.  FreeBSD hosts are
contributing over 8.3 million keys/sec and are 15 of the 20 fastest
machines on the list.  :)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:05:11 1997
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 23:04:51 -0800
From: obrien@NUXI.com (David O'Brien)
To: ben@narcissus.ml.org (Snob Art Genre)
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FREEBSD-CHAT-L)
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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Snob Art Genre writes:
> get_keyspace: Operation timed out
> rc5-56-client: Error getting key.
> rc5-56-client: Sleeping 10 minutes...
> 
> Anything to worry about?  I guess I should wait and see if it happens
> again.  


Don't worry, eventually you will get it going.  Seems their server is
either overloaded or still under perodic SYN flooding.  We've seen this
perodicly over the past two weeks.

-- 
-- David	(obrien@NUXI.com  -or-  obrien@FreeBSD.org)

From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:08:40 1997
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From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
cc: "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>,
        FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge 
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Snob Art Genre wrote:
> 
> get_keyspace: Operation timed out
> rc5-56-client: Error getting key.
> rc5-56-client: Sleeping 10 minutes...
> 
> Anything to worry about?

    There is only a single server handling keyblock requests and
gathering results from all the clients, so it tends to get kind of
busy.  On top of that, it is being intermittently synflooded so nobody
can get in.  Just leave the client running and your host connected,
and eventually it will get through.
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:12:00 1997
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From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: "David O'Brien" <obrien@NUXI.com>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: RSA 56-bit key challenge
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On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, David O'Brien wrote:

> Snob Art Genre writes:
> > get_keyspace: Operation timed out
> > rc5-56-client: Error getting key.
> > rc5-56-client: Sleeping 10 minutes...
> > 
> > Anything to worry about?  I guess I should wait and see if it happens
> > again.  
> 
> 
> Don't worry, eventually you will get it going.  Seems their server is
> either overloaded or still under perodic SYN flooding.  We've seen this
> perodicly over the past two weeks.

I thought the SYN flooding was aimed at participants, not at the
key-server.

In any case, I got it working -- I can tell because my load hit 1.4 a few
minutes ago and isn't budging.

How long is this supposed to last, again?  :)
 
> -- 
> -- David	(obrien@NUXI.com  -or-  obrien@FreeBSD.org)
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:16:58 1997
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 02:16:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Crazy RSA-cracking idea...
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    How about we turn the RC5 cracking code into an lkm and include it
with the next distribution of FreeBSD?  I figure the 56-bit key will
take over a year to crack given the current growth curve and figuring
in a bit of luck.  Why not make it easy for every FreeBSD box out
there to join in?  ;-)  That would be.... wild.  :)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:31:13 1997
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From: Snob Art Genre <ben@narcissus.ml.org>
To: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
cc: FREEBSD-CHAT-L <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: Crazy RSA-cracking idea...
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On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Brian Tao wrote:

>     How about we turn the RC5 cracking code into an lkm and include it
> with the next distribution of FreeBSD?  I figure the 56-bit key will
> take over a year to crack given the current growth curve and figuring
> in a bit of luck.  Why not make it easy for every FreeBSD box out
> there to join in?  ;-)  That would be.... wild.  :)

Hell, put it in the kernel -- make every new FreeBSD user a member of the
team whether they want to be or not!

> --
> Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
> "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"
> 
> 



 Ben

"You have your mind on computers, it seems."


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:32:05 1997
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Subject: Re: Crazy RSA-cracking idea... 
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 09:31:40 +0200
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Brian Tao wrote:
>     How about we turn the RC5 cracking code into an lkm and include it
> with the next distribution of FreeBSD?  I figure the 56-bit key will
> take over a year to crack given the current growth curve and figuring
> in a bit of luck.  Why not make it easy for every FreeBSD box out
> there to join in?  ;-)  That would be.... wild.  :)

Why does it have to be an LKM? Just load it with the daemons...

M
--
Mark Murray                PGP key fingerprint = 80 36 6E 40 83 D6 8A 36
This .sig is umop ap!sdn.                        BC 06 EA 0E 7A F2 CE CE



From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:39:31 1997
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From: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
To: Mark Murray <mark@grondar.za>
cc: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Crazy RSA-cracking idea... 
In-Reply-To: <199703020731.JAA25731@grackle.grondar.za>
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On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Mark Murray wrote:
> 
> Why does it have to be an LKM? Just load it with the daemons...

    Actually, it should be just part of the kernel, so you can't just
kill it off if you don't want to participate.  ;-)
--
Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org)
"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"


From owner-freebsd-chat  Sat Mar  1 23:52:20 1997
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To: Brian Tao <taob@risc.org>
cc: Mark Murray <mark@grondar.za>, chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Crazy RSA-cracking idea... 
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Brian Tao wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, Mark Murray wrote:
> > 
> > Why does it have to be an LKM? Just load it with the daemons...
> 
>     Actually, it should be just part of the kernel, so you can't just
> kill it off if you don't want to participate.  ;-)

ROTFLOL

The downside of this, though would be all the folks screaming about how
slow FreeBSD was when it was "doing nothing". :-)

M
--
Mark Murray                PGP key fingerprint = 80 36 6E 40 83 D6 8A 36
This .sig is umop ap!sdn.                        BC 06 EA 0E 7A F2 CE CE