From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 8 04:18:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09140 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09118; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199706081118.EAA09118@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Exchange vs. Notes To: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co (Pedro F. Giffuni) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: michaelv@MindBender.serv.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, stefan@exis.net, jdd@vbc.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <33999E2E.719D@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> from "Pedro F. Giffuni" at Jun 7, 97 10:45:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > > > > On the other hand, the places where Exchange shines, are medium sized > > companies to mega corporations, where commercial support is not only > > preferred, but often required. > > > The mega corporations simply don't like risks: they use what everyone > uses. If exchange and/or Notes is more popular is not a good way to > determine which is (as you say) faster and better. At least I can run a > Notes server from UNIX, no chance on ever seeing that on Exchange. its not risk that bothers them. they want to have (must have) someone or some company they can point to when the box fails. the motivating factor seems to be shifting the blame some where else. (manager: you aint putting my job on the line!) whether the results works or not may be irrelevant. know of a company that chose NT for a webserver. NT doing reverse DNS lost threads till teh box crashed. they wer rebooting 3x a day. but that was okay ;) they dont buy softare. they buy protection from critism. jmb From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 8 08:02:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA15624 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15615 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 08:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem01.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.31]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA04746; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 10:03:36 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <339AE4C9.5BD1@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 09:58:50 -0700 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joshua Fielden CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange vs. Notes References: <199706070628.XAA01055@MindBender.serv.net> <3399782F.F933CA56@concentric.net> <339A6659.3B9F@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> <339A55A6.3583874A@concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joshua Fielden wrote: > > > > > The great advantage of NT over UNIX is security: they certified C2 > > security...IF you unplug it from the network and don't use your floppy > > drives :-) > > > > Pedro > > > JF > > But remember the old adage... "any computer with a human user is > insecure." :-) I was precisely noting that NT is secure ONLY IF no one uses it. Yes there are security problems reported under NT, especially after their so-called certification. M$ admitted their certification was only valid if NT is unaccesible to a human being. NT is very different from W95: NT is a microkernel that was conceived from the start to compete with UNIX. NT is more secure than UNIX because it doesn't support (natively) telnet, ftp, sendmail and the other services we know. NT's security is achievable under UNIX, but who would like to comment all the services in inetd.conf and replace them with the MSN? I wouldn't buy exchange because I can only use it with an M$ OS. Notes deserves the try. BTW anyone knows if SCO's version runs under FreeBSD? Pedro. > -- > SCSI is *not* magic. There are many technical > reasons why it is occasionally nessicary to > sacrifice a small goat to your SCSI chain. > --Joshua Fielden From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 10 06:37:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA04367 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA04362 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlanta (mfo-dial1-8.cybercom.net [208.218.156.8]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10541; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970610133548.00a3bee0@cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:35:48 -0400 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: Cable modems Cc: FreeBSD Chat Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ...moved to Chat from Hackers... At 06:59 AM 6/10/97 -0400, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: >On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Michael Hancock wrote: >> Has anyone tried out a cable modem? I searched at dejanews for "cox" and >> "cable modem" and found some interesting postings. Some guy in San Diego >> downloaded a 5MB file to his home PC in 30 seconds. I also read that a >> Cox tech is surfing at home with a bsd system. Cable modems are available outside the city of Boston (Mass.) in the suburbs, but not close to the downtown area where I happen to live. :_( I guess the cable providers around here either haven't gotten their acts together or just don't think the inner-city population has any interest in this sort of thing. >From what I've heard, the speeds are extremely good, two to five times 28.8Kbaud on average. Unfortunately, my understanding is that the average performance may degrade as more users get onto the system. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 10 10:30:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18467 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from po3.bbn.com (PO3.BBN.COM [192.1.50.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18459 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bbn.com (DROCKWELL.BBN.COM [128.89.31.139]) by po3.bbn.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA01511; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706101720.NAA01511@po3.bbn.com> To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Cable modems In-reply-to: Message from The Classiest Man Alive <1.5.4.32.19970610133548.00a3bee0@cybercom.net> . X-face: &R'hN{mZu#r@8b_JU\bn"!fYpP{?5k4p/(|]?.2'6;>Dc9}~t*vY=/#-:"63ya.%)%o`Kv$ u&'Ff5k&n[}QC;j7YYsR5Hl]G"E:*9Zmw;dx[sw&9Tmx_PB/7B`RdFW;#@49hJU&kW+J"<[`9^?.dQ 3]L$zK,4'=tThX$wC!M\`e*@1y Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:23:59 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 10 Jun, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > ...moved to Chat from Hackers... > > Cable modems are available outside the city of Boston (Mass.) in the > suburbs, but not close to the downtown area where I happen to live. :_( I > guess the cable providers around here either haven't gotten their acts > together or just don't think the inner-city population has any interest in > this sort of thing. There was also a story in the Globe about how Micro$oft networking let you browse everybody else's Windows machine that was cable-connected. Talk about Network Neighborhood! Dennis From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 10 13:57:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02530 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02525 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05812; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29255; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: Dennis Rockwell cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Cable modems In-Reply-To: <199706101720.NAA01511@po3.bbn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > There was also a story in the Globe about how Micro$oft > networking let you browse everybody else's Windows machine > that was cable-connected. Talk about Network Neighborhood! > In all fairness, though, the Windows TCP/IP wizards will warn you to turn off file/printer sharing over the TCP/IP connection. Some people just choose to learn the hard way... ;-) K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 10 21:20:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA28214 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw.qualitysemi.com (gw.qualitysemi.com [206.86.28.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28209 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.qualitysemi.com (mailhost.qualitysemi.com [206.86.28.11]) by gw.qualitysemi.com (8.8.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA24706; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sun1.qsa.qualitysemi.com ([203.14.118.128]) by mailhost.qualitysemi.com (8.8.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA21494; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (julianj@localhost) by sun1.qsa.qualitysemi.com with SMTP id OAA18242 (8.7.5/IDA-1.6); Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:18:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:18:44 +1000 (EST) From: "Julian Jenkins (QSA)" X-Sender: julianj@sun1 To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cable modems In-Reply-To: <199706102301.QAA03841@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Moved to chat. On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I suspect Europe and Australia to have universal high speed > access *long* before the US, simple because you guys don't > have a badly managed antiquated infrastructure that they are > still trying to amortize over the remaining portion of their > 20 year accounting cycle. Yes, but when Telsra did finally get around to offering cable modem services in Sydeny and Melbourne, the service was so limited as to be useless to all but the most boring of users. It initially sounded good to have megaibits of bandwidth to the internet. However all you can do with it is browse the web, read mail from thier servers and telnet out. All other services have been disabled. This is particularly usless to people like me, I connect my home machine to the internet so that I can use it from work as often as otherwise. And just to add insult to injury, it is only possible to authenitcate yourself to their network using software that they will provide and only runs under windoze 3.1 or 95. So yes Australia wil likely get cable modem access earlier than the states. Probably because we have only just got cable telivision and by some fluke of nature somebody thought ahead enough to make it capable of also carrying data. However it still is only usefull to the sheep. Kaveman From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 10 23:39:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05218 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05213 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id CAA03055; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:39:35 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:39:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199706110639.CAA03055@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Joel N. Weber II" To: ksmm@cybercom.net CC: dennis@bbn.com, winter@jurai.net, Chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from The Classiest Man Alive on Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Cable modems x-url: http://www.red-bean.com/~nemo x-attribution: nemo x-foobar: An example of hard water is ice. Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive In all fairness, though, the Windows TCP/IP wizards will warn you to turn off file/printer sharing over the TCP/IP connection. Some people just choose to learn the hard way... ;-) I consider it a misfeature myself. Samba doesn't support netbios, and I'm sure the machine with the modem will do an adaqute job blocking incoming connections in my case... From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 10 23:40:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05324 for chat-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05319 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id CAA03055; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:39:35 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:39:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199706110639.CAA03055@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Joel N. Weber II" To: ksmm@cybercom.net CC: dennis@bbn.com, winter@jurai.net, Chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from The Classiest Man Alive on Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Cable modems x-url: http://www.red-bean.com/~nemo x-attribution: nemo x-foobar: An example of hard water is ice. Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive In all fairness, though, the Windows TCP/IP wizards will warn you to turn off file/printer sharing over the TCP/IP connection. Some people just choose to learn the hard way... ;-) I consider it a misfeature myself. Samba doesn't support netbios, and I'm sure the machine with the modem will do an adaqute job blocking incoming connections in my case... From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 00:06:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA06731 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06726 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA15505; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:36:22 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199706110706.QAA15505@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Cable modems In-Reply-To: from Bob Bishop at "Jun 11, 97 06:45:04 am" To: rb@gid.co.uk (Bob Bishop) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:36:21 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bob Bishop stands accused of saying: > > >Bah Humbug! > > Exactly. I wonder if that translates into Strine. :-) "bullshit" 8) Anyone that thinks that we're going to have it "good" commswise is seriously deluding themselves 8) > Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 02:10:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA11744 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA11739 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (ulf@gatekeeper.Alameda.net [207.90.181.2]) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29566 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.5/8.7.6) id CAA02339 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:10:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199706110910.CAA02339@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: Theo on irc To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:10:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk *** deraadt is ~deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org (Theo de Raadt) *** on channels: #Unix *** on irc via server portal.mbnet.mb.ca (MBnet IRC Server) i am bored, and do not have any little bugs to fix. No further comment.... Ulf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 04:30:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA17368 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.vis.net.uk [194.207.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17361 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 04:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by bagpuss.visint.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA26331 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:29:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:29:59 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: From the Microsoft Site Builder Network FAQ: In-Reply-To: <199706111123.MAA26253@bagpuss.visint.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, while waiting to figure out where I want to go today... On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Tom Gidden wrote: > >From the Microsoft Site Builder Network FAQ: > > > Q: Given the uncertainty of our day-to-day existence and the burden of > > awareness of our own mortality, what is the true path to inner peace? > > > > A: Stop your existential whining and write tighter HTML code. Right attitude, wrong answer. When's FreeBSD-95 shipping ? Steve From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 08:25:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA29500 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29495 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07675; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199706111525.LAA07675@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: shag@concentric.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cable modems/slightly off-topic Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hackers References: <5nlccb$kgd$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #1 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.hackers you write: >system. The only reason @home works is because TCI doesn't have much say >in how it's run. :-) I didnt say @home :) This is *not* @home. Each TCI cable system is operated independantly of theother, so YMMV is very appropriate with cable systems. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 10:22:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA05432 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05426 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06214; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:15:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199706111715.KAA06214@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cable modems To: julianj@qsa.qualitysemi.com (Julian Jenkins) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:15:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Julian Jenkins" at Jun 11, 97 02:18:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yes, but when Telsra did finally get around to offering cable modem > services in Sydeny and Melbourne, the service was so limited as to be > useless to all but the most boring of users. This is the promise of ADSL, which we don't even have yet. There is only one 5ESS switch in Tucson, and I'm betting they only offer the service in commercial/other prefixes serviced by that switch (ie: I am still SOL). > It initially sounded good to have megaibits of bandwidth to the internet. > However all you can do with it is browse the web, read mail from thier > servers and telnet out. All other services have been disabled. This is > particularly usless to people like me, I connect my home machine to > the internet so that I can use it from work as often as otherwise. Yep. No back channel. You must have had an existing cable infrastructure which was not heavily upgraded. This is what TCI was promising in Phoenix (I'd have to move 65 miles away to even have a chance of getting it), but then backed off from. The problem is that they would have to replace all their repeaters. No capability to run a server on your end of the cable: only good for pushing commercial content in your face. > And just to add insult to injury, it is only possible to authenitcate > yourself to their network using software that they will provide and only > runs under windoze 3.1 or 95. So buy a copy of Sourcer from V Communications, Inc. (www.vcom.com), and run it on the Windows 3.1 code (Sourcer has problems with the number of symbols in Windows95, from my experience). It will spit out commented x86 assembly source code for their programs. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 11:32:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08811 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08806 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA06360; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:25:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199706111825.LAA06360@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cable modems To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:25:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, michaelh@cet.co.jp, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970610225010.32367@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jun 10, 97 10:50:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ ... Moved to -chat ... ] Whoops! My hot buttons, my hot buttons! Aieeeeeeee!!!! > > The rest of us live in the armpit of the telecommunications > > industry (like US West and TCI cablevision) and we don't have > > Hey careful! I *am* in TCI land, and this TCI is the best cable system I've > ever seen. That's because they took what *we* paid them, and built *you* new infrastructure, preferring establishing a new market to marginally increasing an existing one. > And you have moronic consumers in the United states who cry "I have to > pay $70 a month for a 10mbit link to thie internet? Waaahh thats > rediculus! I wanna pay $5!" The cheapest T1 (~DS1) in the US West area can be had using a Frame Relay interconnect between the endpoints to avoid distance charges. This works out to $465 * 2 (line costs only). This is only a committed data rate connection if both endpoints are in the same LATA; they consistently overcommit inter-LATA circuits. This is ~1/7th of the 10Mbit rate you cite as costing $70/month This does not include equipment costs or endpointing charges from the NSP. For a committed rate of 44Mbits, you will probably pay over $10,000 a month. I know a T1 to the nearest capable NSP from Tucson is about $3000/month for 1/4 that bandwidth. The telco's in Europe supply terminal devices for ISDN. US telco customers have to buy (or rent) their own. Frankly, I'd be happy paying 1/4 of the rent I pay a month on my large apartment for a 64kx24x7 connection. I wouldn't be sending packets all the time, so they have real costs over an intermittent connection. I'd pay this to the first comapny that would show up at my door to offer it to me (US West, TCI, Frobozzco, I *don't* *care* *who*). If they were willing to go for FR instead of ISDN (Can't do that! We can't count message units on FR if the VC is up all the time!), they would save the costs they generally bitch about for this type of thing: the DTMF decoder for me dialing (I don't need to dial unless they don't let mee keep the VC up!) and the tone generator (I don't need one of thse either). It's all an issue of packet vs. circuit switching, and the meterability of either vs. the intent of the phone company to nickel and dime us to death over everything it can get away with without violating the terms that established its public monopoly. It's very similar, in my mind, to those assinine "ATM network access charges". It's costing the banks a lot less to not have to front humans to interact with their customers, just as it would cost the telco's a lot less to not have to front ADAC's, DTMFD's, and tone generators. > Capitalism works, and if consumers were willing to pay for quality, > we wouldnt be stuck with VHS, crappy NTSC telvision signals, lousy > POTS lines, and other useless (but cheap) products. It is not an issue of capitalism. The RBOC's in the US have a legal monopoly, and are not willing to accept a 6% margin as the cost of maintaining that monopoly. You do not get any effective competition in a market where a company wields monopolistic power. Look at Microsoft operating systems. Given the fight between the legally mandated margin and the desire of the company to abuse the monopoly, the company plays tricks with the PUC (Public Utilities Commision) in order to establish metered rate tarrifs, long distance carrier access charges on both ends of the connection, and other methods of increasing revenue withing the framework of the monopoly. At the same time, they avoid upgrading equipment for as long as possible to amortize costs as far as possible to get a tiny decrement in capitol outlay. I am fully versed in the mechanics of companies who don't buy foam cups for use by their employees (or visitors) as a cost cutting measure. Just like the US Air Force will avoid buying a $600 laser printer and have you walk to the next building to get your printouts, while just outside a jet is burning $12,000 dollars (50 laser printers) worth of jet fuel an hour for a one jet training mission. Cut the mission short by 1.2 minutes and you've bought the printer and saved the back-and-forth time for a building of people. I'm getting to the point where it would meet the cost/benefit ratio for me to *strongly* lobby the local government to sieze the wiring infrastructure via emminent domain, and lease it to whichever phone comany promises to provide the best service for the least cost over the length of the lease. One of the lease conditions would be wire maintenance. Wires, like roads, are then part of the public infrastructure. Now *THAT* arrangement would be an example of capitalism working the way it should; the best company for the job gets the job, not the company with the publically allowed (and impossible to revoke) infrastructure monopoly. Oh, and the reason we have VHS is because the people who came up with it lied to the consumers about its technical merits relative to Beta; you can only make a decision as good as the information you are given to make it. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 11:34:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08928 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08888 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id LAA25774; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:33:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:33:44 -0700 From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199706111833.LAA25774@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cable modems Newsgroups: kithrup.freebsd.chat In-Reply-To: <199706111715.KAA06214.kithrup.freebsd.chat@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: from "Julian Jenkins" at Jun 11, 97 02:18:44 pm Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199706111715.KAA06214.kithrup.freebsd.chat@phaeton.artisoft.com> you write: >Yep. No back channel. You must have had an existing cable infrastructure >which was not heavily upgraded. This is what TCI was promising in >Phoenix (I'd have to move 65 miles away to even have a chance of >getting it), but then backed off from. The problem is that they would >have to replace all their repeaters. No capability to run a server on >your end of the cable: only good for pushing commercial content in >your face. TCI's problems are several. First, they spent millions of dollars acquiring other cable companies, instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars improving their infrastructure. (The result? In San Jose, their cable is split onto two seperate wires, an A cable and a B cable. With no real plans to fix that.) Then, they rolled out @Home, which is only adequate at best, and is seriously lacking in some public design decisions. (Namely, they say they will keep only a single "neighborhood" on a single line... but they don't say how large a "neighborhood" is. Right now, I think that's the entire city of Fremont.) Meanwhile, @Home is charging $40/month for their service. Which is, people who use it tell me, entirely reasonable. But many people look at that $40/month, and then look at the $19.95 everyone else charges... and they go with the cheaper (and slower) service. Incidently, people do run servers on it. However, @Home/TCI has stated that anyone who uses it "too much" will be charged more. But htey haven't stated what "too much" is. Also, of course, it's a single IP address, and the address is not necessarily fixed (somepeople have managed to get the same IP address multiple times, most people don't). And @Home doesn't support anything other than Win95, although it turns out you can, of course, hook it up to anyting -- one person had his linux box up using it. Said it made downloading software packages *much* nicer. Because of the test markets not doing too well, and because TCI has spent so much money acquiring other companies instead of providing service to their existing customer base... TCI has had to scale back the services. Meanwhile, PacBell is doing the same thing with their cable television offering -- which people who have it think is much better than TCI's. (Me, all I want is a nice ISDN-like connection, that's plenty for now, at a reasonable price. For cable tv, I will gladly sign up with the first company that can offer me a programmable tap, instead of the idiotic cable boxes -- which, of course, rules out DSS immediately.) Sean. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 11:35:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09048 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09010 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xsvr1.cup.hp.com (xsvr1.cup.hp.com [15.0.66.179]) by palrel1.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26341; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xsvr1.cup.hp.com (1.39.111.2/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA023494067; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:34:27 -0700 From: "Josef C. Grosch Contra" Message-Id: <9706111134.ZM2345@xsvr1.cup.hp.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:34:27 -0700 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert "Re: Cable modems" (Jun 11, 10:15am) References: <199706111715.KAA06214@phaeton.artisoft.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Cable modems Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Jun 11, 10:15am, Terry Lambert wrote: > Subject: Re: Cable modems > > Yes, but when Telsra did finally get around to offering cable modem > > services in Sydeny and Melbourne, the service was so limited as to be > > useless to all but the most boring of users. > > This is the promise of ADSL, which we don't even have yet. There is > only one 5ESS switch in Tucson, and I'm betting they only offer the > service in commercial/other prefixes serviced by that switch (ie: I > am still SOL). > [ DELETED ] Question: Would ADSL work on Northern Telcom DMS-100 ? >-- End of excerpt from Terry Lambert Josef -- Josef Grosch | Laugh while you can | 47L-P4 jgrosch@cup.hp.com | Monkey boy ! | (408) 447-0503 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 12:09:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10808 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA10803 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA06496; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:01:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199706111901.MAA06496@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cable modems To: jgrosch@xsvr1.cup.hp.com (Josef C. Grosch Contra) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:01:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9706111134.ZM2345@xsvr1.cup.hp.com> from "Josef C. Grosch Contra" at Jun 11, 97 11:34:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Yes, but when Telsra did finally get around to offering cable modem > > > services in Sydeny and Melbourne, the service was so limited as to be > > > useless to all but the most boring of users. > > > > This is the promise of ADSL, which we don't even have yet. There is > > only one 5ESS switch in Tucson, and I'm betting they only offer the > > service in commercial/other prefixes serviced by that switch (ie: I > > am still SOL). > > > > [ DELETED ] > > Question: Would ADSL work on Northern Telcom DMS-100 ? I don't know; you would need the cards and the software. It might overtax the bus on a 100. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 12:32:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA12288 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rush.aero.org (rushe.aero.org [130.221.201.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12280 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by rush.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19722; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anpiel.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20919; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706111922.MAA20919@anpiel.aero.org> To: Terry Lambert cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich), wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, michaelh@cet.co.jp, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cable modems In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:25:14 PDT." <199706111825.LAA06360@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:22:17 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Oh, and the reason we have VHS is because the people who came > up with it lied to the consumers about its technical merits > relative to Beta; you can only make a decision as good as the > information you are given to make it. I think one could make an argument that the old Usenet adage that the discussion's over when someone invokes the Nazis in the argument, applies in technical newsgroups to Beta vs. VHS. FWIW, I don't own a VHS machine. I tape all my stuff in Beta II. It is my semi-lighthearted mission to avoid the VHS format entirely, until digital TV eliminates it. At least in its current form. Yes, Sony still makes Beta players and beta tape, and yes, you can find both here in LA. I do. Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 13:25:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA15796 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15791 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA09357; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19970611162351.18847@crh.cl.msu.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:23:51 -0400 From: Charles Henrich To: Terry Lambert Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, michaelh@cet.co.jp, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cable modems References: <19970610225010.32367@crh.cl.msu.edu> <199706111825.LAA06360@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.76 In-Reply-To: <199706111825.LAA06360@phaeton.artisoft.com>; from Terry Lambert on Wed, Jun 11, 1997 at 11:25:14AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On the subject of Re: Cable modems, Terry Lambert stated: > > > The rest of us live in the armpit of the telecommunications > > > industry (like US West and TCI cablevision) and we don't have > > > > Hey careful! I *am* in TCI land, and this TCI is the best cable system I've > > ever seen. > > That's because they took what *we* paid them, and built *you* new > infrastructure, preferring establishing a new market to marginally > increasing an existing one. Terry, please, you need to understand what your speaking about before spewing forth. We are in one of the oldest rebuilds in TCI territory. This isnt anything special or new, its just run and maintained well by the local folks. Deal with it. [lotsa useless jabber off on a tagent]. > Oh, and the reason we have VHS is because the people who came > up with it lied to the consumers about its technical merits > relative to Beta; you can only make a decision as good as the > information you are given to make it. Oh puhlease, I can purchase a unit and see its shit from the start, I dont need anyone to tell me the specs. Everyone also speweth forth DVD is the answer, when in fact it is lousy. If consumers trust the sellers on blind faith, they deservith what they get. (Well gee, Look, Prsident Clinton, who knew he wouldnt do anything he said?) -Crh Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 13:26:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA15904 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15845 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18538 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA05368 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Cable modems (or why we don't use Beta) In-Reply-To: <199706111922.MAA20919@anpiel.aero.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Mike O'Brien wrote: : FWIW, I don't own a VHS machine. I tape all my stuff in Beta II. : It is my semi-lighthearted mission to avoid the VHS format entirely, : until digital TV eliminates it. At least in its current form. Yes, : Sony still makes Beta players and beta tape, and yes, you can find both : here in LA. I do. I guess that helps keep people out of your house when somebody rents a movie that everbody wants to see. :-) Of course, it must suck when you want to see that Star Trek episode that you missed but your friend taped. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 14:34:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA18873 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (root@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18867 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA18467 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org); Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:12:31 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA00973; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:02:57 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199706111802.UAA00973@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Cable modems To: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu (Charles Henrich) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:02:57 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, michaelh@cet.co.jp, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19970610225010.32367@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jun 10, 97 10:50:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Charles Henrich wrote... > On the subject of Re: Cable modems, Terry Lambert stated: > > > The rest of us live in the armpit of the telecommunications > > industry (like US West and TCI cablevision) and we don't have > > Hey careful! I *am* in TCI land, and this TCI is the best cable system I've > ever seen. > > > I suspect Europe and Australia to have universal high speed > > access *long* before the US, simple because you guys don't Come on, it's only 5-6 years ago I finally got a tone dial phone switch instead of the mechanical one. > And you have moronic consumers in the United states who cry "I have to pay $70 > a month for a 10mbit link to thie internet? Waaahh thats rediculus! I wanna > pay $5!" I'd settle for $70.. I suppose it would set you back multiple 1000 $ here... - followups to -chat Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 14:36:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA18980 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA18975 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07150; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:29:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199706112129.OAA07150@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cable modems To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:29:25 -0700 (MST) Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, terry@lambert.org, michaelh@cet.co.jp, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199706111802.UAA00973@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jun 11, 97 08:02:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I suspect Europe and Australia to have universal high speed > > > access *long* before the US, simple because you guys don't > > Come on, it's only 5-6 years ago I finally got a tone dial phone switch > instead of the mechanical one. Congradulations. Be thankful you do not live in a small Southern Utah town which shall be nameless, where US West just installed a mechanical phone swicth with the intent of amortizing it across its remaining "useful life" of 8 years. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 14:45:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA19361 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rush.aero.org (rushe.aero.org [130.221.201.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19356 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by rush.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22526; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anpiel.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21076; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706112135.OAA21076@anpiel.aero.org> To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cable modems (or why we don't use Beta) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:29:52 PDT." Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:35:24 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I guess that helps keep people out of your house when somebody rents a > movie that everbody wants to see. :-) Of course, it must suck when you > want to see that Star Trek episode that you missed but your friend taped. I have a LaserDisc machine. My goal is a good picture. That lets out VHS. Plenty of laser discs for rent around LA. :-) And I've about given up on Star Trek. However, I'llbe fair here. I did recently BUY a set of pre-recorded VHS tapes. I bought 'em in London. They're tapes of the BBC miniseries _Neverwhere_, scripted by Neil Gaiman of Sandman fame. They're in PAL format (of course). I had 'em scan-converted here in LA. Mike O'Brien From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 18:24:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27838 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from parkplace.cet.co.jp (parkplace.cet.co.jp [202.32.64.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27828 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (michaelh@localhost) by parkplace.cet.co.jp (8.8.5/CET-v2.1) with SMTP id BAA06492; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:24:09 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:24:09 +0900 (JST) From: Michael Hancock To: Terry Lambert cc: Wilko Bulte , henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cable modems In-Reply-To: <199706112129.OAA07150@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > I suspect Europe and Australia to have universal high speed > > > > access *long* before the US, simple because you guys don't > > > > Come on, it's only 5-6 years ago I finally got a tone dial phone switch > > instead of the mechanical one. > > Congradulations. Be thankful you do not live in a small Southern Utah > town which shall be nameless, where US West just installed a mechanical You mean the one at the foot of those excellent ski slopes? From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 19:04:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29355 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29338; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.37]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA09158; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:05:10 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <339F743F.6B23@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:59:59 -0700 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ulf Zimmermann CC: hackers@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Comment/Suggestion - Adobe Products - Acrobat Reader (fwd) References: <199706111825.LAA09111@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (I CC´d this to chat, if someone replies please take it out of hackers) Hmm.. This was sort of discussed in the ports list long ago. The general principle that the majority (not exactly me, I, and myself) followed was that it was not a good idea to start bothering commercial software producers towards porting their stuff to FreeBSD, that we could survive better if Linux was supported, and as a result we would also win that market. In fact I emailed them thanking for the Linux port, and reported that it ran under FreeBSD. They were very appreciative of my message. Pedro. Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > Ok. Everyone write Adobe that we want an Acrobat Reader for FreeBSD :) > > ----- Forwarded message from Adobe Support ----- > > >From service@Adobe.COM Tue Jun 10 11:40:07 1997 > From: service@Adobe.COM (Adobe Support) > Message-Id: <199706101843.LAA00996@mail-sea.sea.Adobe.COM> > Date: 10 Jun 97 11:40:23 > To: ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net > Subject: Comment/Suggestion - Adobe Products - Acrobat Reader > > Hello Ulf, > > Hello Ulf, > > Thank you for contacting Adobe Customer Support via the Adobe Web site. > > Although there is no information currently available as to whether Acrobat will support BSD in the future with a version of the Acrobat Reader, we are constantly monitoring the trend in the marketplace to better serve the changing needs of our customers. You are important to us and we will take your request into consideration when planning future releases. > > ). A quick way to check: from the home page, click on the yellow 'Get Acrobat Reader' button at the bottom of the page. Scroll or page down to step number two (2). Here, there are pull down menus for product (Acrobat 3.0 Reader), platfo > > I hope this answers your question. For further questions, don't forget to check the Customer Services and the Technical Support pages for the most up-to-date Customer Support information. > *Customer Services-- > http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/main.html > *Technical Support-- > http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/techsupport.html > > For information about our current support policies, see http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/cfdetails.html. > Best regards, > > Jessica > Adobe Customer Support > Best regards, > > Jessica > Adobe Customer Support > > THREAD:UZIMMERM9706102721621 > The thread number (above) is your reference number for this issue. > > Thank you for visiting www.adobe.com. We hope this reply answers your > question. Inquiries such as yours often prompt us to update or add information > to www.adobe.com so it can be available to other customers. Please return to > www.adobe.com for additional information and inquiries. > > Copyright 1997 Adobe Systems Incorporated > > --- On 06/09/97 12:37:05 P, you wrote --- > Why don't you guys compile a BSD version of acroread ? Like for BSD/OS or even > better for FreeBSD ? > > --- original message ends --- > > ----- End of forwarded message from Adobe Support ----- > > Ulf. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 20:18:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02543 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (qmailr@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu [129.101.191.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02532 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 13856 invoked by uid 1003); 12 Jun 1997 03:18:48 -0000 Message-ID: <19970611201848.59236@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:18:48 -0700 From: faried nawaz To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: wietse's ``mx'' mailer. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.74e Organization: dis. Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk http://www.ornl.gov/cts/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/1997/06/msg00157.html From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 11 20:27:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03145 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03138 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA08117; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:20:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199706120320.UAA08117@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Cable modems To: michaelh@cet.co.jp (Michael Hancock) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:20:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Michael Hancock" at Jun 12, 97 10:24:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Congradulations. Be thankful you do not live in a small Southern Utah > > town which shall be nameless, where US West just installed a mechanical > > You mean the one at the foot of those excellent ski slopes? Nope. The one that services the bigamists. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 01:07:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA15701 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15696 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bsdchat@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id LAA06473; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:04:37 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199706120804.LAA06473@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: Theo on irc In-Reply-To: <199706110910.CAA02339@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> from Ulf Zimmermann at "Jun 11, 97 02:10:43 am" To: ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:04:37 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > *** deraadt is ~deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org (Theo de Raadt) no identd... > *** on channels: #Unix > *** on irc via server portal.mbnet.mb.ca (MBnet IRC Server) that's efnet server, right? > i am bored, and do not have any little bugs to fix. > No further comment.... too bad i was idle, as usual, it would've made my day... =) > Ulf. mickey From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 05:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA25000 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gal.logic.it (gal.logic.it [195.120.151.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA24989 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [195.120.151.17] by gal.logic.it (NTMail 3.02.12) with ESMTP id la209649 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:12:47 +0200 Received: by dumbwinter.ecomotor.it (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0wc8kj-00004jC; Thu, 12 Jun 97 14:13 MET DST Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:13:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni X-Sender: molter@dumbwinter.ecomotor.it To: Tony Kimball cc: questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a plumbing problem In-Reply-To: <199706092353.SAA09060@compound.east.sun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [moved to chat] Hi Tony On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Tony Kimball wrote: > I am trying to debug a TCP/IP application for the USRobotics PalmPilot > [...] I've heard about the PalmPilot and I'm wondering how these PDAs are going and how much you can do with them... Marco Molteni Computer Science student at the Universita' di Milano, Italy. "You can't trust code that you did not totally create yourself. (Especially code from companies that employ people like me)." Ken Thompson, 1983 Turing Award Lecture. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 07:23:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA29184 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bort.mv.net (root@bort.mv.net [192.80.84.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29173 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jvc.keenesentinel.com ([204.97.20.57]) by bort.mv.net (8.8.5/mem-951016) with SMTP id KAA29668 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970612142300.00706fe4@bort.mv.com> X-Sender: logrus-jv@bort.mv.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:23:00 -0400 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Feebrijee Subject: Microsoft Sillyness Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk While cruising through Microsoft's recently published FAQ on IE for UNIX, I read this question and the afforementioned monopoly's increadibly outspoken answer: Q: How can Microsoft be confident it can release a 4.0 browser for UNIX given the difficulties releasing a 3.0 product? A: Glad you asked. We invite anyone with questions about our ability to make up for lost time to consider our track record in delivering a superior Mac version of Internet Explorer. It has come from behind and now offers a much better browser than Netscape Navigator or any other Mac browser. Internet Explorer for Macintosh is not only superior in feature set, but offers better performance while requiring significantly less memory compared to Navigator. On the Windows 3.1 platform, we deliver the only browser that supports a final production version of the Java Virtual Machine. The reason for our delay on UNIX is so that we can deliver a similarly great 4.0 product for our UNIX customers. The question now seems to be: Which political office is Microsoft's publicist going for in the 2000 election? Cheers! From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 09:57:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07431 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07426 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15181; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Marco Molteni cc: Tony Kimball , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: a plumbing problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Marco Molteni wrote: > > I am trying to debug a TCP/IP application for the USRobotics PalmPilot > > [...] > > I've heard about the PalmPilot and I'm wondering how these PDAs are going > and how much you can do with them... Well, you can upgrade the thing to 2Meg (most apps are 10-20k), and we already have SSLehey and ssh ports. Sound capable enough? People are programming them in Basic, C (metrowerks and gcc), Java, etc. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 10:54:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10575 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10570 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [204.178.32.161]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05645 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA19451; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:02:44 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:02:43 +0000 (GMT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: "Josef C. Grosch Contra" cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cable modems In-Reply-To: <9706111134.ZM2345@xsvr1.cup.hp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Josef C. Grosch Contra wrote: > Question: Would ADSL work on Northern Telcom DMS-100 ? >From what I understand, and the way we were planning to test it, is that the major advantage(?) is that it doesn't ever touch a switch. The only reason it works is because you are buying dry copper from point to point and putting a special box on each end. An ISP has a choice at that point of either a) co-locating at the CO and putting a multi-port xDSL unit there and hauling the bandwidth back to their nearest POP that can handle it, or b) within the distance limitations, buy two point-to-point copper lines, one to the customer, one to your POP. In the latter case, you are using the CO as a "patch panel" and just twisting the two lines together so you can aggregate the bandwidth with cheap copper vs. expensive T3s... None of the explanations I've heard yet mention anything about the CO switch, as all the xDSL (except for IDSL, which I don't yet comprehend) methodoligies don't touch a switch. You're only in the CO to pick up the wire. Charles From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 11:02:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11000 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [204.178.32.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10977 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA22726; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:12:56 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:12:56 +0000 (GMT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Comment/Suggestion - Adobe Products - Acrobat Reader (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199706111825.LAA09111@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wow, same exact letter I got! Charles On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > Ok. Everyone write Adobe that we want an Acrobat Reader for FreeBSD :) > > ----- Forwarded message from Adobe Support ----- > > >From service@Adobe.COM Tue Jun 10 11:40:07 1997 > From: service@Adobe.COM (Adobe Support) > Message-Id: <199706101843.LAA00996@mail-sea.sea.Adobe.COM> > Date: 10 Jun 97 11:40:23 > To: ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net > Subject: Comment/Suggestion - Adobe Products - Acrobat Reader > > > Hello Ulf, > > Hello Ulf, > > Thank you for contacting Adobe Customer Support via the Adobe Web site. > > Although there is no information currently available as to whether Acrobat will support BSD in the future with a version of the Acrobat Reader, we are constantly monitoring the trend in the marketplace to better serve the changing needs of our customers. You are important to us and we will take your request into consideration when planning future releases. > > For up-to-date information on which platforms Adobe Acrobat Reader supports, see our Web site (http://www.adobe.com). A quick way to check: from the home page, click on the yellow 'Get Acrobat Reader' button at the bottom of the page. Scroll or page down to step number two (2). Here, there are pull down menus for product (Acrobat 3.0 Reader), platform (Windows 95(R)) and version (English). Choose the pull down menu for platform to check platform availability. > > I hope this answers your question. For further questions, don't forget to check the Customer Services and the Technical Support pages for the most up-to-date Customer Support information. > *Customer Services-- > http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/main.html > *Technical Support-- > http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/techsupport.html > > For information about our current support policies, see http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/cfdetails.html. > Best regards, > > Jessica > Adobe Customer Support > Best regards, > > Jessica > Adobe Customer Support > > THREAD:UZIMMERM9706102721621 > The thread number (above) is your reference number for this issue. > > Thank you for visiting www.adobe.com. We hope this reply answers your > question. Inquiries such as yours often prompt us to update or add information > to www.adobe.com so it can be available to other customers. Please return to > www.adobe.com for additional information and inquiries. > > Copyright 1997 Adobe Systems Incorporated > > --- On 06/09/97 12:37:05 P, you wrote --- > Why don't you guys compile a BSD version of acroread ? Like for BSD/OS or even > better for FreeBSD ? > > > > > > > > --- original message ends --- > > > > > ----- End of forwarded message from Adobe Support ----- > > Ulf. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 11:50:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13832 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13736 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.5/(97/05/21 3.30)) id OAA10642; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:48:54 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from athena (ts001d03.sal-ut.concentric.net [206.173.156.15]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.5) id OAA21220; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <339FE1E3.20B2134C@concentric.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:47:47 +0100 From: Joshua Fielden Organization: Shaggy Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cable modems X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Hancock wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > > I suspect Europe and Australia to have universal high speed > > > > > access *long* before the US, simple because you guys don't > > > > > > Come on, it's only 5-6 years ago I finally got a tone dial phone switch > > > instead of the mechanical one. > > > > Congradulations. Be thankful you do not live in a small Southern Utah > > town which shall be nameless, where US West just installed a mechanical > > You mean the one at the foot of those excellent ski slopes? Nah, that's me who lives just down from Park City, where the Bulls are staying. :-) I live a few miles from my "local office" of US West, and I can only pull 24,000 to my provider, when back in Civilization I could pull 26.4 or 28.8 all day long. Here in Metro Salt Lake, they are using splitters to take 4 lines and convert them to 96, or some such. I'm not a telco guy, but the numbers are close. Oh, and they will only guarantee the lines to 1200 bps. :-/ JF From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 11:53:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13976 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13970 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16661 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.5/(97/05/21 3.30)) id OAA11261; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:51:24 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from athena (ts001d03.sal-ut.concentric.net [206.173.156.15]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.5) id OAA21769; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <339FE27A.54644A7B@concentric.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:50:18 +0100 From: Joshua Fielden Organization: Shaggy Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Cable modems (or why we don't use Beta) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199706112135.OAA21076@anpiel.aero.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike O'Brien wrote: > > > I guess that helps keep people out of your house when somebody rents a > > movie that everbody wants to see. :-) Of course, it must suck when you > > want to see that Star Trek episode that you missed but your friend taped. > > I have a LaserDisc machine. My goal is a good picture. That > lets out VHS. Plenty of laser discs for rent around LA. :-) And I've > about given up on Star Trek. > > However, I'llbe fair here. I did recently BUY a set of > pre-recorded VHS tapes. I bought 'em in London. They're tapes of > the BBC miniseries _Neverwhere_, scripted by Neil Gaiman of Sandman fame. > They're in PAL format (of course). I had 'em scan-converted here in LA. > > Mike O'Brien And anyway, it's LA. If he ever gets real desperate, there's a 24-hour Good Guys across from the Beverly Center in the DART square. :-) JF From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 12:22:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15472 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iafnl.es.iaf.nl (uucp@iafnl.es.iaf.nl [195.108.17.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA15467 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA03015 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org); Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:22:21 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA00733; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:10:30 +0200 (MET DST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199706121710.TAA00733@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Cable modems To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:10:30 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu, terry@lambert.org, michaelh@cet.co.jp, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199706112129.OAA07150@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jun 11, 97 02:29:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote... > > > > I suspect Europe and Australia to have universal high speed > > > > access *long* before the US, simple because you guys don't > > > > Come on, it's only 5-6 years ago I finally got a tone dial phone switch > > instead of the mechanical one. > > Congradulations. Be thankful you do not live in a small Southern Utah Thank you :) But don't complain, you've got a couple of most awesome national parks on your doorstep.. 8-) You can't have everything. Wilko _ ____________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl - Arnhem, The Netherlands |/|/ / / /( (_) Do, or do not. There is no 'try' - Yoda -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 13:06:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA17883 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17817 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem01.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.31]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA10108; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:04:56 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <33A07156.6794@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:59:51 -0700 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM References: <199706121659.JAA09110@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > This is nearly as cool as the "BSD 9.2" graphical login in the > movie "Die Hard!"... > BTW, how much did Novell (or SGI) pay for having UNIX mentioned in "Jurassic Park" ..and precisely in the most emotive part of the film ? Pedro. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 13:17:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18528 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA18518 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA09425; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:09:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199706122009.NAA09425@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM To: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co (Pedro F. Giffuni) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:09:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <33A07156.6794@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> from "Pedro F. Giffuni" at Jun 12, 97 02:59:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is nearly as cool as the "BSD 9.2" graphical login in the > > movie "Die Hard!"... > > BTW, how much did Novell (or SGI) pay for having UNIX mentioned in > "Jurassic Park" ..and precisely in the most emotive part of the film ? It was SGI, and they didn't pay, they got placement because they did all the computer animation for the dinosaurs. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 14:06:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20808 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co ([168.176.15.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20790 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem.usc.unal.edu.co (unalmodem11.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.41]) by ohm.ingsala.unal.edu.co (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA10161; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:04:22 -0500 (COT) Message-ID: <33A07F43.2EE1@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:59:15 -0700 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM References: <199706122009.NAA09425@phaeton.artisoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > > It was SGI, and they didn't pay, they got placement because they > did all the computer animation for the dinosaurs. > Yeah, I knew the animations were done with something like 80 SGIs (and surely they were not free). Anyway, the commercial was so artificial, I simply laughed :-). Pedro. > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 14:54:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA22986 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22981 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.5/(97/05/21 3.30)) id RAA00790; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:53:36 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from athena (ts001d03.sal-ut.concentric.net [206.173.156.15]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.5) id RAA16096; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A00D2F.BC85BD32@concentric.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:52:31 +0100 From: Joshua Fielden Organization: Shaggy Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Feebrijee CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft Sillyness X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <1.5.4.32.19970612142300.00706fe4@bort.mv.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Feebrijee wrote: > > While cruising through Microsoft's recently published FAQ on IE for UNIX, I > read this question and the afforementioned monopoly's increadibly outspoken > answer: > > Q: How can Microsoft be confident it can release a 4.0 browser for UNIX > given the difficulties releasing a 3.0 product? > > A: Glad you asked. We invite anyone with questions about our ability to make > up for lost time to consider our track record in delivering a superior Mac > version of Internet Explorer. It has come from behind and now offers a much > better browser than Netscape Navigator or any other Mac browser. Internet > Explorer for Macintosh is not only superior in feature set, but offers > better performance while requiring significantly less memory compared to > Navigator. On the Windows 3.1 platform, we deliver the only browser that > supports a final production version of the Java Virtual Machine. The reason > for our delay on UNIX is so that we can deliver a similarly great 4.0 > product for our UNIX customers. > > The question now seems to be: Which political office is Microsoft's > publicist going for in the 2000 election? > > Cheers! Well, IE for the MAc is WAY more stable than Netscrape, and WAY smaller of a footprint, so it's almost true. :/ JF From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 17:07:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29064 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goodall2.u.washington.edu (pharaoh@goodall2.u.washington.edu [140.142.12.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29049 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pharaoh@localhost) by goodall2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.04/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id RAA19942; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:06:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:06:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric L." To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM In-Reply-To: <33A07F43.2EE1@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: ? Terry Lambert wrote: ? > It was SGI, and they didn't pay, they got placement because they ? > did all the computer animation for the dinosaurs. ? Yeah, I knew the animations were done with something like 80 SGIs (and ? surely they were not free). Anyway, the commercial was so artificial, I ? simply laughed :-). Wasn't the actual computer that was on the desktop a Mac? (a Quadra 700 if i remember). --eric lakin From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 18:39:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02760 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02755 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id VAA08972; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:39:34 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:39:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199706130139.VAA08972@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: pharaoh@u.washington.edu CC: pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co, terry@lambert.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (pharaoh@u.washington.edu) Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> It was SGI, and they didn't pay, they got placement because they >>> did all the computer animation for the dinosaurs. >> Yeah, I knew the animations were done with something like 80 SGIs (and >> surely they were not free). Anyway, the commercial was so artificial, I >> simply laughed :-). > Wasn't the actual computer that was on the desktop a Mac? (a Quadra > 700 if i remember). There was a Quadra on the desktop, but most of the computers also at that station were indeed SGIs. Happy hacking, joelh -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the Free Software Foundation's. Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 20:09:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA06463 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06458 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id XAA09371; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:09:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:09:03 -0400 Message-Id: <199706130309.XAA09371@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Joel N. Weber II" To: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu CC: pharaoh@u.washington.edu, pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co, terry@lambert.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199706130139.VAA08972@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> (message from Joel Ray Holveck on Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:39:34 -0400) Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM x-url: http://www.red-bean.com/~nemo x-attribution: nemo x-foobar: A day without orange juice is like a day without orange juice. Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:39:34 -0400 From: Joel Ray Holveck > Wasn't the actual computer that was on the desktop a Mac? (a Quadra > 700 if i remember). There was a Quadra on the desktop, but most of the computers also at that station were indeed SGIs. And if the movie is to believed, the Unix systems reacted to a password failure by starting a Quicktime movie on the Mac IIRC. A slighly more interesting hack than my present attempt at getting my Apple IIGS to behave like a proper dumb terminal... From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 22:05:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA10850 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10844 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA07456 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:05:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:05:10 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft Sillyness In-Reply-To: <33A00D2F.BC85BD32@concentric.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Joshua Fielden wrote: > Well, IE for the MAc is WAY more stable than Netscrape, and WAY > smaller of a footprint, so it's almost true. :/ Judging by the NS4 beta releases, I can't imagine it being much of a challenge to come up with something more smaller and more stable. Even Microsoft could do it. Netscape has really over-extended itself. Keep checking that obituary column.... -john From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 22:28:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA11790 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from silver.smith.net.au (gateway.smith.net.au [202.12.71.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11785 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mike@localhost) by silver.smith.net.au (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA25823; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:58:22 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:48:20 -0600 Resent-Message-Id: Resent-From: Richard Johnson Resent-To: hellfire@hardy.math.okstate.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:58:00 +0930 (CST) Organization: Mike Smith Network Support From: michael smith To: matt@portal.net.au, chat@freebsd.org Subject: FW: cryptography and lingerie Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----FW: ----- X-RDate: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:44:01 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:48:20 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Length: 2315 XFMstatus: 0400 From: Richard Johnson To: hellfire@hardy.math.okstate.edu Subject: cryptography and lingerie Forwarded-by: Mark Matossian Forwarded-by: Keith Bostic[SMTP:bostic@bostic.com] Forwarded-by: spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene "Chief Yuckster" Spafford) Forwarded-by: swlodin@delcoelect.com (Steve Lodin) ------ Forwarded Article <5k3ap1$ptj$1@gannett.math.niu.edu> ------ From caj@moriarty.math.niu.edu (Xcott Craver) Michael Strelitz wrote: > >> But not every bra has a cryptographic function. Most are used for ASCII >> armor or for compression. Some are even designed to make the plaintext >> stand out and more enjoyable to read. > > Touche, but I believe what we have here is a clear case of steganography. Yikes. I think that we should hammer down some definitions before this whole thing gets out of hand. Cryptography: Building an difficult-to-unhook bra. Steganography: Building a flesh-colored bra, or one whose unhook mechanism is hidden somewhere unexpected (Man: "How the Hell...?" Woman: "It unhooks in front." Man: "Damn those steganographers.") Public-Key Cryptography: Building a bra that anyone can put on, but that only Alice can remove. Watermarking: Building a bra that stays on even after smoothing, compression, and rotation. Also, Bob should not be able to put his own bra on over Alice's and claim ownership of her body. Fingerprinting: Um, I'm probably already in trouble for the last one, so I'll just skip this. Signatures: Building a bra with a nametag ("Property of Alice, machine wash warm...") such that bras with Alice's name only fit Alice's body. Bob could in theory remove Alice's bra and replace it with his own, but there's no real reason for him to do so. All-or-Nothing Disclosure Of Secrets: Alice transforms her bra into a duffle bag, and either (a) shows Bob how to open it, or (b) shows Bob how she made it into a duffle bag. Alice repeats the procedure until Bob is satisfied (perverted freak). One-time Pad: Kleenex. NSA: An organization that wants women to go back to wearing corsets and chastity belts. Oh, and Bill Clinton gets to keep all the keys. [looks up at what's written so far and sighs] I'm so damned juvenile. I'm going to go do something more constructive and serious. Well, happy Monday. -Caj [**!!Oh, and these are not the views of my employer!!**] -- Anna Croft PhD student Amino Acid Research Research School of Chemistry R Supervisor : Dr C J Easton ANU Canberra ACT Australia H2N-|-COOH Radical reactions email : acroft@rsc.anu.edu.au H "Good things, when short, are http://rsc.anu.edu.au/~acroft twice as good."- Baltasar Gracian --------------End of forwarded message------------------------- -- Mike Smith Unix hardware collector http://www.smith.net.au/~mike The question "why are the fundamental laws of nature mathematical" invites the trivial response "because we define as fundamental those laws which are mathematical". Paul Davies, _The_Mind_of_God_ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 23:34:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA14452 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14447 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA07575 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA19758; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:33:22 +0300 (EEST) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:33:22 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM In-Reply-To: <33A07F43.2EE1@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > > > It was SGI, and they didn't pay, they got placement because they > > did all the computer animation for the dinosaurs. > > > Yeah, I knew the animations were done with something like 80 SGIs (and > surely they were not free). Anyway, the commercial was so artificial, I > simply laughed :-). Well, if I remember correctly, they were free. At least in the sense that the filmmakers didn't pay for having the animation done on them. Sander > > Pedro. > > > Terry Lambert > > terry@lambert.org > > --- > > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 12 23:58:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA15354 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CU-SeeMe.educ.utas.edu.au (cu-seeme.educ.utas.edu.au [144.6.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA15349 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 23:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (iaint@localhost) by CU-SeeMe.educ.utas.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA08278 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:54:10 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:54:10 +1000 (EST) From: Iain Templeton To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM In-Reply-To: <199706130309.XAA09371@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Joel N. Weber II wrote: > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:39:34 -0400 > From: Joel Ray Holveck > > > Wasn't the actual computer that was on the desktop a Mac? (a Quadra > > 700 if i remember). > > There was a Quadra on the desktop, but most of the computers also at > that station were indeed SGIs. > > And if the movie is to believed, the Unix systems reacted to a password > failure by starting a Quicktime movie on the Mac IIRC. A slighly more > interesting hack than my present attempt at getting my Apple IIGS > to behave like a proper dumb terminal... > I was quite impressed by the time it took the SGI to reboot and be ready after the power came back on. Must've been a few seconds (unless I got a weird version of the telly the other week). Wish my '88 vintage Amiga would boot that fast :-( They showing JP on TV in all the other countries that the Lost World is being released in as well? Or it that kind of shameless promotion an Australian trait only (not bl**dy likely)? From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 05:21:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA26828 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA26821 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706131219.IAA06748@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.6.0. Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:19:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Eric L." cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Eric L. wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > ? Terry Lambert wrote: > ? > It was SGI, and they didn't pay, they got placement because they > ? > did all the computer animation for the dinosaurs. > ? Yeah, I knew the animations were done with something like 80 SGIs (and > ? surely they were not free). Anyway, the commercial was so artificial, I > ? simply laughed :-). > > Wasn't the actual computer that was on the desktop a Mac? (a Quadra 700 if i > remember). > > --eric lakin > There was one Mac, and a bunch of SGI Indys. We (those of us who admin'd Irix 5.x, the Irix of the Jurassic Park movie) laughed when the comment was made about having never been down before. Anyone who has any experience at all with Irix 5.x knows it leaks memory like it was free, and needs a good reboot to the head every so often. And the graphical interface the little girl was digging around in is SGI's buttonfly environment. Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 06:15:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA29190 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29185 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29334; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA26140; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: Iain Templeton cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Iain Templeton wrote: : They showing JP on TV in all the other countries that the Lost World is : being released in as well? Or it that kind of shameless promotion an : Australian trait only (not bl**dy likely)? I think several cable networks are running it along with Speed. But I don't have cable, so I had to rent it on video (VHS...sorry). Didn't want to be left out of all the good dinosaur conversations, ya' know? K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 06:35:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA29886 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29869 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (ksmm@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00422; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ksmm@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA26311; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:40:17 -0400 (EDT) From: The Classiest Man Alive To: Jamie Bowden cc: "Eric L." , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM In-Reply-To: <199706131219.IAA06748@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Jamie Bowden wrote: : On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, Eric L. wrote: : : and needs a good reboot to the head every so often. And the graphical : interface the little girl was digging around in is SGI's buttonfly : environment. Wow, that's a real interface? I scoffed at the fact that she locked the doors without so much as a shell prompt. I thought for sure the EFX guys had superimposed a Windows app onto a Unix workstation's screen. Of course, I still envy her for having her own Unix workstation to play around on at home. I'd never have been prepared for such an emergency without FreeBSD at home. :-) K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 08:20:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA04315 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croute.com (archive.croute.com [199.97.106.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04310 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bldg1.croute.com (bldg1.croute.com [199.97.106.99]) by croute.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA13497; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:11:29 -0500 Received: from COMPUROUTE/SpoolDir by bldg1.croute.com (Mercury 1.31); 13 Jun 97 10:30:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from SpoolDir by COMPUROUTE (Mercury 1.31); 13 Jun 97 10:30:02 -0600 (CST) From: "Larry Dolinar" Organization: CompuRoute, Inc. To: service@adobe.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:29:56 -0600 CDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Re: Comment/Suggestion - Adobe Products - Acrobat Reader CC: chat@freebsd.org Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Message-ID: <24849113EDF@bldg1.croute.com> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Consider me (very) interested in Adobe ported to FreeBSD. best regards, Larry Dolinar sysadmin CompuRoute, Inc. > > ----- Forwarded message from Adobe Support ----- > > >From service@Adobe.COM Tue Jun 10 11:40:07 1997 > From: service@Adobe.COM (Adobe Support) > > Thank you for visiting www.adobe.com. We hope this reply answers your > question. Inquiries such as yours often prompt us to update or add > information to www.adobe.com so it can be available to other customers. > > Please return to www.adobe.com for additional information and > inquiries. > > Copyright 1997 Adobe Systems Incorporated > > --- On 06/09/97 > 12:37:05 P, you wrote > --- > Why don't you guys compile a BSD version of acroread ? Like for BSD/OS > or even better for FreeBSD ? > --- original message ends --- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 08:33:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA04853 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croute.com (archive.croute.com [199.97.106.220]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04847 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bldg1.croute.com (bldg1.croute.com [199.97.106.99]) by croute.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA13547 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:24:30 -0500 Received: from COMPUROUTE/SpoolDir by bldg1.croute.com (Mercury 1.31); 13 Jun 97 10:43:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from SpoolDir by COMPUROUTE (Mercury 1.31); 13 Jun 97 10:42:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Larry Dolinar" Organization: CompuRoute, Inc. To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:42:43 -0600 CDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Cable modems and TCI as well... X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Larry Dolinar" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199706111802.UAA00973@yedi.iaf.nl> References: <19970610225010.32367@crh.cl.msu.edu> from "Charles Henrich" at Jun 10, 97 10:50:10 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Message-ID: <2487FE932FC@bldg1.croute.com> Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >As Charles Henrich wrote... >> On the subject of Re: Cable modems, Terry Lambert stated: >> >> > The rest of us live in the armpit of the telecommunications >> > industry (like US West and TCI cablevision) and we don't have >> >> Hey careful! I *am* in TCI land, and this TCI is the best cable system I've >> ever seen. >> > How many have you seen? 8) *I* am in TCI land likewise, and thank [insert Deity of choice here] they don't handle telco as well. My brother is on a first name basis with their service department about the periodically crappy signal. cheers, larry From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 09:36:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA06916 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.colstate.edu (earth.ColState.EDU [168.26.193.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06911 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colstate.edu (mercury.ColState.EDU [168.26.193.32]) by earth.colstate.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA28016 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CCMAIN/SpoolDir by colstate.edu (Mercury 1.31); 13 Jun 97 12:35:34 EST Received: from SpoolDir by CCMAIN (Mercury 1.31); 13 Jun 97 12:35:30 EST From: "Christian" Organization: Columbus State Univ., Columbus, Ga. To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:35:21 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Wireless Internet Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <27D33135B8C@colstate.edu> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, Has anyone else seen this? http://insat.zoneit.com What do ya'll think, is it worth it? ---------------------------------------------- Christian Plazas Columbus State University (706)568-2063 From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 10:51:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09860 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09854 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id NAA00646; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:48:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:48:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199706131748.NAA00646@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: ksmm@cybercom.net CC: jamie@itribe.net, pharaoh@u.washington.edu, pgiffuni@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co, terry@lambert.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from The Classiest Man Alive on Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:40:17 -0400 (EDT)) Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> and needs a good reboot to the head every so often. And the graphical >> interface the little girl was digging around in is SGI's buttonfly >> environment. >Wow, that's a real interface? I scoffed at the fact that she locked the >doors without so much as a shell prompt. I thought for sure the EFX guys >had superimposed a Windows app onto a Unix workstation's screen. This *is* Irix, after all. It's probably the most GUI-oriented Unix around. (This is considering the constant notes in the docs that NeXT ran Mach, not Unix.) Happy hacking, joelh -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the Free Software Foundation's. Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 13 17:02:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28187 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leaf.lumiere-cc.com (j@leaf.lumiere-cc.com [204.188.120.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28181; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (j@localhost) by leaf.lumiere-cc.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA11062; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse Reply-To: Jesse To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: quotas -- grace period Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Heya, I'm wondering, is it possible to set a different grace period for each individual? If so, how? Also, how can I set the default grace period? I've tried edquota -t, but it didn't appear to change anything. Is it necessary to reboot after? Thanks in advance. --- Jesse http://www.lumiere-cc.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 01:21:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA13514 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rush.aero.org (rushe.aero.org [130.221.201.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA13505 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by rush.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA04723; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anpiel.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA24885; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706140810.BAA24885@anpiel.aero.org> To: "Christian" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wireless Internet In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:35:21 PDT." <27D33135B8C@colstate.edu> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:10:49 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone else seen this? > http://insat.zoneit.com > > What do ya'll think, is it worth it? It's caused a considerable stir around these parts. We're trying to figure out how they could be a fake (as in, the deposit on a board will buy a lot of margaritas in Playa del Carmen). It looks legit. I asked them a) howcum they can do 128Kb when CDPD normally tops out at 9600, and b) howcum so cheep when CDPD is so usurious? They replied, very promptly, that a) they bond several 19.2Kb raw CDPD (9600 is with ECC) together, and b) the CDPD carriers, despite their rate structures, are desperate for traffic right now and were happy to sign these folks up for deeply discounted bulk rates. Could be real, folks. From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 02:01:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA14694 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA14689; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 02:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id KAA09057; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:30:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01497; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:33:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970614093327.23496@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:33:27 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: wosch@FreeBSD.ORG, jfieber@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hypernews for WWW Server ??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.75 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I just visited the Linux Web Server to see, what's happening in the Linux camp. Please have a look at the following Webpage, that shows a WWW page with an inline discoussion forum ... http://www.redhat.com:8080/HyperNews/get/khg.html I find this an interesting idea. Any comments ? -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 03:45:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA19170 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 03:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from python.shoal.net.au (andrew@python.shoal.net.au [203.26.44.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA19165 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 03:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by python.shoal.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28227 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:44:31 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:44:31 +1000 (EST) From: Andrew Perry To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: new look Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk just had a look at www.au.freebsd.org i love the new look! Andrew Perry andrew@shoal.net.au From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 06:22:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA22854 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (root@piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se [129.16.234.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22849 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 06:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hallgren.se (ip181079.student.gu.se [130.241.181.79]) by piggy.mdstud.chalmers.se (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27672 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:22:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <33A29A2A.41C67EA6@mdstud.chalmers.se> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:18:34 +0200 From: Tommy Hallgren Organization: FreeBSD X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: www.freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! The new homepage for FreeBSD is really nice! I feel it really sells FreeBSD to the visitor. Regards, Tommy(md6tommy@mdstud.chalmers.se) - Crusifixion? Good! From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 08:39:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA26648 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26639 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 08:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id BAA00332 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:09:06 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199706141539.BAA00332@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Complaining at Warner Brothers? To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:09:05 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I started off trying to mail a (reasonably polite) complaint to the webmaster at Warner Bros. about their anal use of Shockwave for _everything_. But it bounced (mail looping at their end). So I tried to send a complaint to their postmaster. No surprises; they don't _have_ a postmaster. So, OK I think, I'll try talking to their uypstream feed. Perhaps someone with a bit of experience can straigten them out on how things are meant to be done. Heh, of course they have a direct feed from MCI. Into what appears to be a Badly Configured SGI webserver-in-a-box. Cripes, what a heap of snot. Am I mad? 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 09:12:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27803 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27784 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA09469; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706141517.JAA09469@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Andrew Perry CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new look In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew Perry writes: > just had a look at www.au.freebsd.org i love the new look! Same for www.freebsd.org; I've been meaning to mention it for a couple of days now. Cool! Informative, interesting, and points out many of FreeBSDs best points right away. I give it two processors up! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 09:20:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28074 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28069 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA10273; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199706141524.JAA10273@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: "Mike O'Brien" CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wireless Internet In-Reply-To: <199706140810.BAA24885@anpiel.aero.org> References: <27D33135B8C@colstate.edu> <199706140810.BAA24885@anpiel.aero.org> Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike O'Brien writes w.r.t. http://insat.zoneit.com: > It's caused a considerable stir around these parts. We're trying > to figure out how they could be a fake (as in, the deposit on a board will > buy a lot of margaritas in Playa del Carmen). It looks legit. I asked > them a) howcum they can do 128Kb when CDPD normally tops out at 9600, and > b) howcum so cheep when CDPD is so usurious? > > They replied, very promptly, that a) they bond several 19.2Kb > raw CDPD (9600 is with ECC) together, and b) the CDPD carriers, despite > their rate structures, are desperate for traffic right now and were happy > to sign these folks up for deeply discounted bulk rates. Can we get any information on the interface? It'd be interesting to modify the existing lp/ppp interface to work with it. $20/mo and high throughput sounds pretty good to me. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 09:35:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28759 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28750; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06948; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706141634.JAA06948@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Andreas Klemm cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, wosch@FreeBSD.ORG, jfieber@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Hypernews for WWW Server ??? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:33:27 +0200." <19970614093327.23496@klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:34:49 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yes, I find the idea very interesting . Check out http://rah.star-gate.com/HyperNews/get/forums/sound.html In addition to HyperNews it sports a glimpse search engine by clicking on "Search". The glimpse setup goes thru every mail messages and indexes not only the messages at the site but also any html links to remote sites. Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Andreas Klemm : > Hi ! > > I just visited the Linux Web Server to see, what's happening > in the Linux camp. Please have a look at the following > Webpage, that shows a WWW page with an inline discoussion > forum ... > > http://www.redhat.com:8080/HyperNews/get/khg.html > > I find this an interesting idea. > > Any comments ? > > > -- > Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by > Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 09:44:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29052 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29028 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07042; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706141643.JAA07042@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Michael Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:09:05 +0930." <199706141539.BAA00332@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:43:53 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Is there a shockwave plug in for FreeBSD? Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Michael Smith : > > I started off trying to mail a (reasonably polite) complaint to the > webmaster at Warner Bros. about their anal use of Shockwave for > _everything_. > > But it bounced (mail looping at their end). So I tried to send a > complaint to their postmaster. No surprises; they don't _have_ a > postmaster. > > So, OK I think, I'll try talking to their uypstream feed. Perhaps > someone with a bit of experience can straigten them out on how things > are meant to be done. Heh, of course they have a direct feed from > MCI. Into what appears to be a Badly Configured SGI > webserver-in-a-box. Cripes, what a heap of snot. > > Am I mad? 8) > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ > ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 10:16:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00370 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00365 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13893; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:15:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:15:52 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Wes Peters cc: Andrew Perry , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new look In-Reply-To: <199706141517.JAA09469@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, Wes Peters wrote: > Andrew Perry writes: > > just had a look at www.au.freebsd.org i love the new look! > > Same for www.freebsd.org; I've been meaning to mention it for a couple > of days now. Cool! Informative, interesting, and points out many of > FreeBSDs best points right away. I give it two processors up! ;^) A good illustration the importance of presentation/interface design. A lot of people have been saying things like this, yet no new material was added to the site. :) -john From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 10:24:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00719 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00703 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13900; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:24:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:24:23 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber Reply-To: John Fieber To: Michael Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: <199706141539.BAA00332@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 15 Jun 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > I started off trying to mail a (reasonably polite) complaint to the > webmaster at Warner Bros. about their anal use of Shockwave for > _everything_. Reminds me of another site I ran into. The home page said something like: "This site would rock if you were using Microsoft Internet Explorer". It seems that the commercial world has missed the point of the world wide web: standardize the data, not the application. +--------------+ / \ | World Wide Web | | 1990-1997 | | R.I.P. | | | | | | | \/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\\/\/\/\//\ -john From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 11:07:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02362 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02357 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id OAA07283; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:06:56 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:06:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199706141806.OAA07283@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: jfieber@indiana.edu CC: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from John Fieber on Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:24:23 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I started off trying to mail a (reasonably polite) complaint to the >> webmaster at Warner Bros. about their anal use of Shockwave for >> _everything_. >Reminds me of another site I ran into. The home page said >something like: "This site would rock if you were using >Microsoft Internet Explorer". >It seems that the commercial world has missed the point of the >world wide web: standardize the data, not the application. I have seen 'Enhanced for Lynx' buttons, and I have a 'Best Viewed With Any Browser' at the bottom of my page (although mine isn't attractive or organized enough to flatter the concept). It is interesting to note that Netscape Navigator does not properly display the 'Best Viewed...' button on mine at some resolutions under Win95. (I've not tested other combinations; you take what you can find.) Happy hacking, joelh -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the Free Software Foundation's. Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 12:28:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA05156 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net ([204.191.205.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05131 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA03733; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:21:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: cagey owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:21:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Eliuk X-Sender: cagey@kevin.sunshine.net Reply-To: Kevin Eliuk To: John Fieber cc: Michael Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, John Fieber wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > > > I started off trying to mail a (reasonably polite) complaint to the > > webmaster at Warner Bros. about their anal use of Shockwave for > > _everything_. > > Reminds me of another site I ran into. The home page said > something like: "This site would rock if you were using > Microsoft Internet Explorer". > > It seems that the commercial world has missed the point of the > world wide web: standardize the data, not the application. > > > > +--------------+ > / \ > | World Wide Web | > | 1990-1997 | > | R.I.P. | > | | > | | > | | > \/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\\/\/\/\//\ Couldn't agree more. I have only been using the internet since September '96 and found myself quickly getting disgusted with the over-commercialization of the entire web. Personally I believe the whole hype is going to go the same way as CB did in the 70's and Billy&Co. are going to have wasted a whole lot of man hours on making the Internet user (un)friendly ;) Or has this all been speculated before? _______________________________________ |\ /| | \ kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net / | | \ Kevin G. Eliuk / | | /^\_________________________/^\ | | / \ | |/--===### Powered By FreeBSD 2.2.1 \| | www.freebsd.org | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 12:53:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06386 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net ([204.191.205.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06361 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA03799 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:47:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: cagey owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:47:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Eliuk X-Sender: cagey@kevin.sunshine.net Reply-To: Kevin Eliuk To: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Wireless Internet In-Reply-To: <27D33135B8C@colstate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Christian wrote: > Hi All, > > Has anyone else seen this? > http://insat.zoneit.com > > What do ya'll think, is it worth it? > > For any Canucks, I inquired for north of the border ...: >From sales@insat.zoneit.com Sat Jun 14 12:34:55 1997 Message-ID: <33A2A3C0.EF0024B4@insat.zoneit.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:59:28 -0400 From: Adam Organization: AlphaCom Distributer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Eliuk Subject: Re: More Info - Canadian X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, We are still signing contracts with some CDPD carriers so I do not have accurate information on Canada. However this fall we will be offering an upgrade to our Leo satellite system which will cover the entire US and Canada. There are some CDPD carriers in canada and we are working on getting them onboard. We will have finalized coverage maps available in a week or so. thanks. Adam Kevin Eliuk wrote: > > I was lead to your website via freebsd-chat@freebsd.org and would like > more information in terms of Canadian customers. It looks very > interesting. > > Thanks :) -- ------------------------------------------------ INSAT WIRELESS By AlphaCom E-mail : sales@insat.zoneit.com URL : http://www.insat.zoneit.com/ *** Previously Post as insat_rep@iname.com **** ------------------------------------------------- :although I am a little cautious with to good to be true propositions that require money before shipping. Anyone in the Garner, NC area have access to buisness info? _______________________________________ |\ /| | \ kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net / | | \ Kevin G. Eliuk / | | /^\_________________________/^\ | | / \ | |/--===### Powered By FreeBSD 2.2.1 \| | www.freebsd.org | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 14:02:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA08674 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08669 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id RAA07938; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:02:20 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:02:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199706142102.RAA07938@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Joel N. Weber II" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: [sales@insat.zoneit.com: Re: Hawaii? Protocol documentation?] x-url: http://www.red-bean.com/~nemo x-attribution: nemo x-foobar: Packrat's credo: "I have no use for it, but I hate to see it go to waste." Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, it won't be useful to *me* anytime soon :-( I wonder if IP tunneling would be useful here... ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 16:57:48 -0400 From: Adam Organization: AlphaCom Distributer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joel N. Weber II" Subject: Re: Hawaii? Protocol documentation? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199706142051.QAA07899@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel N. Weber II wrote: > > Are you planning to offer service in Hawaii? Hawaii is not currently in our coverage range, however this fall we will be offering an upgrade to satellite connections. We will then offer service throughout the entire US and when the rest of our satellites are up we will be world-wide. We expect to be world-wide by early next spring so keep an eye out. We are constantly adding new service areas and once we have good coverage maps available I will post them on my web site. We have a Linux driver developed and I'm pretty sure it can be ported to Free-BSD. Due to system limitations you can only be assigned one IP address per unit. Sorry. Thanks, Adam > Are you planning to provide documentation so that it will be easy to write > drivers for freely distributed operating systems such as freebsd and Linux? > > Is it possible to get more than one IP address though one interface, > and connect the interface to a machine with ethernet, so that a whole > network can access your system? - -- - ------------------------------------------------ INSAT WIRELESS By AlphaCom E-mail : sales@insat.zoneit.com URL : http://www.insat.zoneit.com/ *** Previously Post as insat_rep@iname.com **** - ------------------------------------------------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 15:32:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA13609 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13601 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip220-28.cc.interlog.com (ip220-28.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.28]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.7.6) with SMTP id SAA23921 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706142232.SAA23921@smtp.interlog.com> X-Sender: paulg@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Paul Griffith Subject: The Berkeley Alternative Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You all might want to take a look at: http://www.plesman.com/reviews/l1ccrv05.htm It from the June 9, 1997 issue of Computing Canada, it gives a good write up on FreeBSD. Here are a few select quotes: "The chief difference between FreeBSD and Linux is quality control. Linux tends to be a bit more advanced, experimental and consequently, sometines a little less stable. The more conserative FreeBSD concentrates on stable releases and has a reputation for being rock solid" "By all account Linux and FreeBSD, combined are growing at the same rate as NT Server" Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 15:41:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14352 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14344 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id SAA08441; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:41:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:41:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199706142241.SAA08441@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net CC: jfieber@indiana.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Kevin Eliuk on Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:21:54 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Personally I believe the >whole hype is going to go the same way as CB did in the 70's and >Billy&Co. are going to have wasted a whole lot of man hours on making >the Internet user (un)friendly ;) >Or has this all been speculated before? To quote from the Online Hacker's Jargon File, v4.0.0: :Imminent Death Of The Net Predicted!: /prov./ [Usenet] Since {Usenet} first got off the ground in 1980--81, it has grown exponentially, approximately doubling in size every year. On the other hand, most people feel the {signal-to-noise ratio} of Usenet has dropped steadily. These trends led, as far back as mid-1983, to predictions of the imminent collapse (or death) of the net. Ten years and numerous doublings later, enough of these gloomy prognostications have been confounded that the phrase "Imminent Death Of The Net Predicted!" has become a running joke, hauled out any time someone grumbles about the {S/N ratio} or the huge and steadily increasing volume, or the possible loss of a key node or link, or the potential for lawsuits when ignoramuses post copyrighted material, etc., etc., etc. Note that the original predictions were back in 1983, when the Internet first came to be. The "net" referred to was the network of UUCP connections, mostly nightly dialups plus the ARPANET (which evolved into the Internet), which carried our mail and newsgroups for some time before the @-sign became part of an email address. I personally believe that the Internet is going to lose its current fad-appeal in the next few years, but it will be a mainstay in communications until the next technological revolution. Happy hacking, joelh -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the Free Software Foundation's. Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 15:51:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14660 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14653 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA25954; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:50:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Joel Ray Holveck cc: kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: <199706142241.SAA08441@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > I personally believe that the Internet is going to lose its current > fad-appeal in the next few years, but it will be a mainstay in > communications [...] I eagerly await that time! With the fad dimensions minimized, we can get on with developing network (based) technologies that are actually useful, instead of merely flashy. -john From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 15:54:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14731 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14726 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 15:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id SAA08540; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:54:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:54:05 -0400 Message-Id: <199706142254.SAA08540@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Joel N. Weber II" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199706142102.RAA07938@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> (devnull@gnu.ai.mit.edu) Subject: Re: [sales@insat.zoneit.com: Re: Hawaii? Protocol documentation?] x-url: http://www.red-bean.com/~nemo x-attribution: nemo x-foobar: Education helps earning capacity. Ask any college professor. Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Incidentally, it's a bit interesting that these parallel port devices work on Macs. I can't remember ever seeing a Mac with a parallel port... From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 17:24:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17180 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rush.aero.org (rush.aero.org [130.221.192.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17171 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (anpiel.aero.org [130.221.196.66]) by rush.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02015 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anpiel.aero.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anpiel.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25464 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706150014.RAA25464@anpiel.aero.org> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: CDPD rates Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 17:14:28 -0700 From: "Mike O'Brien" Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I realized that I inadvertantly made up some stuff about AlphaCom. Here's what they really had to say about both kinds of rates (data and monetary). ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: sales@insat.zoneit.com Received: from aero.org (aero.org [130.221.16.2]) by rush.aero.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29473 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pagesz.net ([208.194.157.3]) by aero.org with ESMTP id <111136-2>; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:32:44 -0700 Received: from adam (isabella-36.pagesz.net [208.194.157.36]) by pagesz.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA18833 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:32:34 -0400 Message-ID: <33A1CA57.354E811A@insat.zoneit.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:31:51 -0700 From: Adam Organization: AlphaCom Distributer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b5 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mike O'Brien" Subject: Re: Questions X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199706132043.NAA24313@anpiel.aero.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1349 Mike O'Brien wrote: > > I saw your Web page. "Impressed" is a poor word to cover my > reaction, but a couple of questions sprang immediately to mind: > > 1) 9600 baud is the usual data transfer rate for CDPD. How > are you getting 128K? The raw transfer rate over CDPD is 19200. We active our 128k by using new transfer methods developed by AlphaCom's. This is not standard CDPD. > 2) Even at 9600 baud, CDPD rates are usurious. How do you > manage $20/month flat rate? Again we have large contracts with CDPD providers. The CDPD circuits are dying for business and many of them could not wait to cut AlphaCom a break to get some traffic. Remember you can use our system anywhere within our coverage areas which is much of the US. By this fall we will offer an upgrade to Low earth orbiting satellite service. The upgrade will cost about $100.00 and will allow access anywhere in the USA. When the rest of our satellites are put up we will offer service anywhere in the world, which should be early next year. Adam > > Mike O'Brien > obrien@aero.org - -- - ------------------------------------------------ INSAT WIRELESS By AlphaCom E-mail : sales@insat.zoneit.com URL : http://www.insat.zoneit.com/ *** Previously Post as insat_rep@iname.com **** - ------------------------------------------------- ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 18:43:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19312 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19307 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA01710; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:13:31 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199706150143.LAA01710@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: <199706141643.JAA07042@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Jun 14, 97 09:43:53 am" To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:13:30 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > Is there a shockwave plug in for FreeBSD? You gotta be joking! BSD/OS netscape doesn't even support plugins 8( Even so, I was running the Solaris Netscape binary on a NetBSD box when I wanted to hit their site, but basically they support their Macintosh roots, and win/win32 8( > Cheers, > Amancio > > > >From The Desk Of Michael Smith : > > > > I started off trying to mail a (reasonably polite) complaint to the > > webmaster at Warner Bros. about their anal use of Shockwave for > > _everything_. > > > > But it bounced (mail looping at their end). So I tried to send a > > complaint to their postmaster. No surprises; they don't _have_ a > > postmaster. > > > > So, OK I think, I'll try talking to their uypstream feed. Perhaps > > someone with a bit of experience can straigten them out on how things > > are meant to be done. Heh, of course they have a direct feed from > > MCI. Into what appears to be a Badly Configured SGI > > webserver-in-a-box. Cripes, what a heap of snot. > > > > Am I mad? 8) > > > > -- > > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ > > ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ > > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > > ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ > > ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ > > > -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 18:51:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19473 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19468 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA01742; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:21:02 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199706150151.LAA01742@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: from John Fieber at "Jun 14, 97 12:24:23 pm" To: jfieber@indiana.edu Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:21:01 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Fieber stands accused of saying: > > It seems that the commercial world has missed the point of the > world wide web: standardize the data, not the application. Oddly enough, almost exactly the point I was hoping to make to Warner. Anyone in the LA area know who does their web work? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 19:05:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA19864 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kevin.sunshine.net (pme41.sunshine.net [204.191.205.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19859 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (cagey@localhost) by kevin.sunshine.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA00395; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:45:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kevin.sunshine.net: cagey owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 18:45:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Eliuk X-Sender: cagey@kevin.sunshine.net Reply-To: Kevin Eliuk To: John Fieber cc: Joel Ray Holveck , msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, John Fieber wrote: > On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > > > I personally believe that the Internet is going to lose its current > > fad-appeal in the next few years, but it will be a mainstay in > > communications [...] > > I eagerly await that time! > > "With the fad dimensions minimized, we can get on with developing > network (based) technologies that are actually useful, instead of > merely flashy." > > -john fieber Feels like a great one for alt.quotations :) or my .signature. BTW do you have any suggestions on the better resources to learn SGML? _______________________________________ |\ /| | \ kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net / | | \ Kevin G. Eliuk / | | /^\_________________________/^\ | | / \ | |/--===### Powered By FreeBSD 2.2.1 \| | www.freebsd.org | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 20:04:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA21660 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21654 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00704; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706150303.UAA00704@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Michael Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:13:30 +0930." <199706150143.LAA01710@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:03:51 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Curious does the linux binary support plug-ins? Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Michael Smith : > Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > > Is there a shockwave plug in for FreeBSD? > > You gotta be joking! BSD/OS netscape doesn't even support plugins 8( > > Even so, I was running the Solaris Netscape binary on a NetBSD box > when I wanted to hit their site, but basically they support their > Macintosh roots, and win/win32 8( > > > Cheers, > > Amancio > > > > > > >From The Desk Of Michael Smith : > > > > > > I started off trying to mail a (reasonably polite) complaint to the > > > webmaster at Warner Bros. about their anal use of Shockwave for > > > _everything_. > > > > > > But it bounced (mail looping at their end). So I tried to send a > > > complaint to their postmaster. No surprises; they don't _have_ a > > > postmaster. > > > > > > So, OK I think, I'll try talking to their uypstream feed. Perhaps > > > someone with a bit of experience can straigten them out on how things > > > are meant to be done. Heh, of course they have a direct feed from > > > MCI. Into what appears to be a Badly Configured SGI > > > webserver-in-a-box. Cripes, what a heap of snot. > > > > > > Am I mad? 8) > > > > > > -- > > > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [ [ > > > ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [ [ > > > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [ [ > > > ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [ [ > > > ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [ [ > > > > > > > > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ > ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 20:12:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA22044 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from u2.farm.idt.net (root@u2.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22038 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sequoia (ppp-30.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.30]) by u2.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA25881; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A35D34.2F1CF0FB@idt.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:10:44 -0400 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Smith CC: Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? References: <199706150143.LAA01710@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith wrote: > > Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > > Is there a shockwave plug in for FreeBSD? > > You gotta be joking! BSD/OS netscape doesn't even support plugins 8( This isn't true - unless you define 'plugin' differently than I do... I have and use the RealAudio 'plugin' for BSD Netscape. They're also known as "helper applications"... Nevertheless, this doesn't change the fact that AFAIK there isn't a shockwave plugin for *BSD. So much for 'standardized' communications... Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 20:47:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA23233 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23228 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA02011; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:17:26 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199706150347.NAA02011@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: <33A35D34.2F1CF0FB@idt.net> from "Gary T. Corcoran" at "Jun 14, 97 11:10:44 pm" To: garycorc@idt.net (Gary T. Corcoran) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 13:17:25 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary T. Corcoran stands accused of saying: > Michael Smith wrote: > > > > Amancio Hasty stands accused of saying: > > > Is there a shockwave plug in for FreeBSD? > > > > You gotta be joking! BSD/OS netscape doesn't even support plugins 8( > > This isn't true - unless you define 'plugin' differently than I do... > I have and use the RealAudio 'plugin' for BSD Netscape. They're also > known as "helper applications"... Ok, I should be more specific. "Helper applications" such as the RA player, Acrobat Reader, etc. are just that; separate applications. "Plugins" are shared libraries which, when loaded become part of Netscape, eg. Shockwave, the Tcl plugin, etc. All netscape versions support helper applications. The BSD/OS binary of Netscape does _NOT_ support plugins. Jordan knows more about this, but basically Netscape claimed that BSD/OS didn't support the dlopen() functionality that they required (not true, incidentally). > Nevertheless, this doesn't change the fact that AFAIK there isn't a > shockwave plugin for *BSD. So much for 'standardized' communications... Yeah. I finally _did_ manage to get a look at the WB stuff I was chasing, and I have to say that on the whole, I was better off _not_ being able to see it; Shockwave, or at least their use of it, is total crap. I remember doing better animations than that on my old Atari. And don't get me started about people that assume your window is some fixed size. *puke* -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 21:03:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA23923 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23918 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA10986; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:03:32 -0700 (PDT) To: "Gary T. Corcoran" cc: Michael Smith , Amancio Hasty , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Jun 1997 23:10:44 EDT." <33A35D34.2F1CF0FB@idt.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: <10981.866347412@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > You gotta be joking! BSD/OS netscape doesn't even support plugins 8( > > This isn't true - unless you define 'plugin' differently than I do... He's defining plug-in the way netscape defines it. Any personal definitions of your own you may have for this term aren't really that applicable in this case and should be confined to your own private lexicon. :-) > I have and use the RealAudio 'plugin' for BSD Netscape. They're also > known as "helper applications"... No, you are quite incorrect. Helper applications are known as helper applications. Plug-ins are known as plug ins. They're totally different animals and should not be confused, OK? :) One good reason that they shouldn't be confused is that FreeBSD supports any number of helpers but NO plug-ins due to the fact that, well, Netscape hasn't availed themselves of our dlfoo() routines and BSDI's shared library interface SUCKS with a capital S. Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 21:04:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24002 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23997 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA11007; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:04:28 -0700 (PDT) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Michael Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Jun 1997 20:03:51 PDT." <199706150303.UAA00704@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:04:28 -0700 Message-ID: <11003.866347468@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Curious does the linux binary support plug-ins? Yes. Of course, you could have also LOOKED for yourself and seen this in 5 minutes but hey, I guess that's a lot more difficult than sending email. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 21:13:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24292 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA24284 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA02953; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706150413.VAA02953@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Michael Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:04:28 PDT." <11003.866347468@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:13:02 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" : > > Curious does the linux binary support plug-ins? > > Yes. Of course, you could have also LOOKED for yourself and seen this > in 5 minutes but hey, I guess that's a lot more difficult than sending > email. :-) You are right I could have LOOKED however I am hacking so I don't want to waste precious time 8) Got too keep short , see ya Amancio From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 22:05:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA26466 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26461 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id BAA09987; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:04:56 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:04:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199706150504.BAA09987@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> From: "Joel N. Weber II" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: garycorc@idt.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <10981.866347412@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? x-url: http://www.red-bean.com/~nemo x-attribution: nemo x-foobar: Any given program will expand to fill available memory. Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:03:32 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" One good reason that they shouldn't be confused is that FreeBSD supports any number of helpers but NO plug-ins due to the fact that, well, Netscape hasn't availed themselves of our dlfoo() routines and BSDI's shared library interface SUCKS with a capital S. It seems to me that this is a place where you could benefit significantly if Netscape were free in terms of freedom and not merely price. (In other words, if Netscape used something like GPL or BSD license, you could actually fix this instead of complaining.) From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 22:12:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA26702 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kavemachine.magna.com.au (kavemachine.magna.com.au [203.4.215.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA26695 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kaveman@localhost) by kavemachine.magna.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA22544; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:28:34 +1000 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:28:33 +1000 (EST) From: Julian Jenkins To: The Classiest Man Alive cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FREEBSD ON TELEVISION PROGRAM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > Of course, I still envy her for having her own Unix workstation to play > around on at home. I'd never have been prepared for such an emergency > without FreeBSD at home. :-) Well her grandfather was a mad billionaire. This apparently had some side benifits. Kaveman kaveman@magna.com.au From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 22:20:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA26962 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26957 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA02232; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:50:14 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199706150520.OAA02232@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? In-Reply-To: <199706150504.BAA09987@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> from "Joel N. Weber II" at "Jun 15, 97 01:04:56 am" To: devnull@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Joel N. Weber II) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:50:14 +0930 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, garycorc@idt.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Joel N. Weber II stands accused of saying: > Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 21:03:32 -0700 > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > > One good reason that they shouldn't be confused is that FreeBSD > supports any number of helpers but NO plug-ins due to the fact that, > well, Netscape hasn't availed themselves of our dlfoo() routines and > BSDI's shared library interface SUCKS with a capital S. > > It seems to me that this is a place where you could benefit significantly > if Netscape were free in terms of freedom and not merely price. > > (In other words, if Netscape used something like GPL or BSD license, > you could actually fix this instead of complaining.) > You're telling _us_ this? Both Jordan and I (and probably others) have offered to maintain a FreeBSD netscape for free, but Netscape co. have never taken us up on it... -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jun 14 22:22:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA27050 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (we-refuse-to-spy-on-our-users@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu [128.52.46.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27043 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 22:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12GNU) id BAA10164; Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:22:34 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 01:22:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199706150522.BAA10164@ethanol.gnu.ai.mit.edu> To: garycorc@idt.net CC: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <33A35D34.2F1CF0FB@idt.net> (garycorc@idt.net) Subject: Re: Complaining at Warner Brothers? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu Sender: owner-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Is there a shockwave plug in for FreeBSD? >> You gotta be joking! BSD/OS netscape doesn't even support plugins 8( >This isn't true - unless you define 'plugin' differently than I do... >I have and use the RealAudio 'plugin' for BSD Netscape. They're also >known as "helper applications"... No, plugins are code snippits which are dynamically linked in, called in a standard fashion, and use the Navigator window area and app space to do their work, in accordance with an API that Netscape has designed. Helper applications are called by Netscape and fed the filename. -- http://www.wp.com/piquan --- Joel Ray Holveck --- joelh@gnu.ai.mit.edu All my opinions are my own, not the Free Software Foundation's. Second law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation -- core dumped