From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 00:07:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA13278 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 00:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from u1.farm.idt.net (root@u1.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13252; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 00:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from idt.net (ppp-4.ts-1.mlb.idt.net [169.132.71.4]) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA24388; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33F6A2F4.91EEDCFA@idt.net> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:06:28 -0400 From: "Gary T. Corcoran" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: "Christopher R. Bowman" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speed test References: <199708161005.MAA02831@desk.jhs.no_domain> <19970817150137.64846@lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > > If I remember correctly 3-sigma is esstentially a short-hand for 1 in a > > million. It derives from statistics where given a gaussian (bell) > > distribution, the probability of anything outside 3 sigma (sigma is a ususally > > the standard deviation) from the average is like .999997 or something > > close to that, which is basically 1 in a million. Motorola was big into > > this basing their near zero defect quality project on this catch > > phrase. > > Didn't Moto have a 7-sigma goal? > > Greg You're close - as I recall, they had a 6-sigma goal, and I believe that is what the above actually refers to... A previous poster gave what is probably the real definition of 3-sigma. Gary From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 02:27:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA19066 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 02:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19061 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 02:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA04099; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:56:49 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199708170926.SAA04099@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: doc/handbook pgpkeys.sgml In-Reply-To: <19970817110037.FV08921@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "Aug 17, 97 11:00:37 am" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:56:49 +0930 (CST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk J Wunsch stands accused of saying: > As John Polstra wrote: > > > > Properly capitalize "Core Team" (was "Core team"). > > > > Maybe this would be the right time to change the name to something > > more modern. Like maybe "DRAM Team" or "Cache Team". > > 17 bits would easily fit into a flip-flop RAM, built up of discrete > transistors. :-) > > So: "Flip-Flop Team" (note the proper capitalization :) ... and hijacking the abbreviation might lead us to the Fast FreBSD Transform, an operation performed on underpowered internet servers to extend their useful lifetime. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 03:56:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA22921 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [194.77.0.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22913 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with UUCP id MAA17781; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:30:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27052; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:17:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970817111748.32810@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:17:48 +0200 From: Andreas Klemm To: Philippe Regnauld Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD background logo References: <19970814140939.22800@deepo.prosa.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79 In-Reply-To: <19970814140939.22800@deepo.prosa.dk>; from Philippe Regnauld on Thu, Aug 14, 1997 at 02:09:39PM +0200 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Aug 14, 1997 at 02:09:39PM +0200, Philippe Regnauld wrote: > Had fun with the Gimp. Take a look at: > > http://hotel.prosa.dk/~pjr/FreeBSD Looks good :-) -- Andreas Klemm | klemm.gtn.com - powered by Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/benches.html From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 04:21:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA23540 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (root@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA23533 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i4got.lakewood.com (fh-ppp31.monmouth.com [205.164.221.63]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19459; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by i4got.lakewood.com id HAA01589 (8.8.5/IDA-1.6); Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:21:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Pechter Message-ID: <199708171121.HAA01589@i4got.lakewood.com> Subject: Re: speed test In-Reply-To: <199708161129.HAA27288@hda.hda.com> from Peter Dufault at "Aug 16, 97 07:29:54 am" To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-to: pechter@lakewood.com X-Phone-Number: 908-389-3592 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Alpha seems like the most safe bet at the moment, > > because they're way faster than Intel at the time. > > (press fingers to forehead and close eyes) "When Dec is purchased > by Microsoft early next year to become their service and system > integration division that will be the end of the Alpha". ("Solution > providers? We don't need no stinkin' solution providers (*kick* to > the temple)") Nooooo!!!! > > Microsoft will then spin off the hardware side of DEC to wither > and die, so as not to worry all the companies killing each other > to be Microsoft's low margin hardware division. Actually, Palmer's pretty close to reducing DEC to a semiconductor supplier. Microsoft could finish the job... How many Microsoft shares would I get in the stock deal for 1 DEC share? (I pretty much agree that this COULD happen if Microsoft wasn't afraid of the FTC and govt watchdogs...) Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 | 908-389-3592 pechter@lakewood.com | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. This msg brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 07:35:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA01260 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA01242; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA27077; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:35:47 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Greg Lehey Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speed test In-Reply-To: <19970817150033.65486@lemis.com> Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Sat, Aug 16, 1997 at 12:42:09PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >> In message <199708161005.MAA02831@desk.jhs.no_domain> "Julian H. Stacey" writes: >>> What does "3-sigma" mean in English ? >>> (I'm English not American, perhaps others were puzzled too ?) >> >> Three standard deviations away from the average. Generally used to >> connote being on the cutting edge. > >That's a rather arbitary interpretation, isn't it? What about the >trailing edge? Yes, 3-sigma means we're talking something that's statistically 99.[99...7]% out of the normal range, or "3 standard-deviations away". Oh, one more piece of the puzzle -- the Greek symbol sigma is typically used to represent the standard deviation of a measurement. So if you play xgalaga all the time and your average score is 100 points with a standard deviation of 10, you are "3-sigma" out if you score 70 or 130. I think. (Hey, this is stats. I hate stats.) Happy trails, Brian From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 07:46:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA01904 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA01896; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0x06aN-0000i5-00; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 08:45:43 -0600 To: "Brian N. Handy" Subject: Re: speed test Cc: Greg Lehey , "Julian H. Stacey" , chat@freebsd.org, platforms@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:35:47 PDT." References: Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 08:45:43 -0600 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've also seen it used, btw, to descibe extremely huge male sex organs. As to why it doesn't also describe things on the trailing edge, I know not the answer to that question. Warner From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 07:58:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA02609 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02600; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 07:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt1-87.HiWAAY.net [208.147.147.87]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA14445; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:58:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA14108; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:58:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708171458.JAA14108@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Greg Lehey cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, platforms@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: speed test In-reply-to: Message from Greg Lehey of "Sun, 17 Aug 1997 15:00:33 +0930." <19970817150033.65486@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:58:28 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey writes: > > On Sat, Aug 16, 1997 at 12:42:09PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > In message <199708161005.MAA02831@desk.jhs.no_domain> "Julian H. Stacey" writes: > >> What does "3-sigma" mean in English ? > >> (I'm English not American, perhaps others were puzzled too ?) > > > > Three standard deviations away from the average. Generally used to > > connote being on the cutting edge. > > That's a rather arbitary interpretation, isn't it? What about the > trailing edge? It means "an event whose probability falls outside 3 standard deviations from the mean", including those above and those below the mean. For it to mean anything at all you have to consider who took the samples. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 08:52:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA05865 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 08:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.flask.com (root@ns1.flask.com [207.67.43.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05859; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 08:52:38 -0700 (PDT) From: skat@flask.com Received: (from skat@localhost) by ns1.flask.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA29833; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:53:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:53:36 -0500 (CDT) To: Warner Losh cc: "Brian N. Handy" , Greg Lehey , "Julian H. Stacey" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speed test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Aug 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > I've also seen it used, btw, to descibe extremely huge male sex > organs. As to why it doesn't also describe things on the trailing > edge, I know not the answer to that question. > > Warner > Description of three-sigma is context sensitive. Normally, researcher will specify if he means one-tail or two-tail statistics. In the case of Motorola example, they are talking about two-tail, since they want the middle part of bell curve. The two extreams, too small or too large, are rejected parts and there is no reason to differentiate. In your male sex organ example, they are talking about one-tail. for one-tail 1-sigma = 84.1% or 15.9% 2-sigma = 97.7% or 2.3% 3-sigma = 99.8% or 0.2% for the two-tail you double the second number, which becomes the percentatge of extreams, e.g. 1-sigma = 31.8%. The center portion of bell curve ("Norm") becomes 68.2% 1-sigma = 68.2% or 31.8% 2-sigma = 98.9% or 1.1% 3-sigma = 99.9% or 0.1% I believe Motrola was shooting for 6-sigma, which means less than 1.973176w-07% rejection rate. One reject in a lot of 5,000,000 parts. Shin From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 09:49:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA08418 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usc.usc.unal.edu.co ([200.21.26.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA08407 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unalmodem20.usc.unal.edu.co by usc.usc.unal.edu.co (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA18170; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:43:12 -0400 Message-Id: <33F74667.13C9@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:43:51 -0700 From: "Pedro Giffuni S," Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold [it] (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD background logo References: <19970814140939.22800@deepo.prosa.dk> <19970817111748.32810@klemm.gtn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andreas Klemm wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 14, 1997 at 02:09:39PM +0200, Philippe Regnauld wrote: > > Had fun with the Gimp. Take a look at: > > > > http://hotel.prosa.dk/~pjr/FreeBSD > > Looks good :-) > Yeah, it looks nice, but can we mention UNIX without being sued? Pedro. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 09:50:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA08553 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wall.jhs.no_domain (vector.muc.ditec.de [194.120.126.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08536 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wall.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wall.jhs.no_domain (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA01623; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:28:00 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199708171028.MAA01623@wall.jhs.no_domain> To: Warner Losh , Shin Katsumata , "Christopher R. Bowman" cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speed test From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Email: Home: Lists: X-web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ X-address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-tel: Home +49.89.268616, Work +49.89.607.29788 Fax +49.89.2608126, Data +49.89.26023276 X-company: Vector Systems Ltd, Unix & Internet Consultants. X-software: FreeBSD (Unix) + EXMH 1.6.9 (PGP key on web) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:42:09 MDT." Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:27:59 +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Reference: > From: Warner Losh > Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:42:09 -0600 > Message-id: Hi, Thanks to Warner Losh & Shin Katsumata & Christopher R. Bowman for answering my > : What does "3-sigma" mean in English ? > : (I'm English not American, perhaps others were puzzled too ?) so it was my lack of familiarity with statisitics theory, plus perhaps a transatlantic linguistic gap ... I never did do much stats :-) Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 11:46:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA15164 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x22 (ppp6439.on.sympatico.ca [206.172.208.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA15151 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by x22 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00422; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:45:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Greg Lehey cc: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: About the Apple-Microsoft Deal In-Reply-To: <19970817134903.20400@lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 17 Aug 1997, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Hmmm, maybe I just had a nightmare. I hope I'll wake up soon in a > > sunny world where the only Big Brother is the network utility > > (http://www.iti.qc.ca/iti/users/sean/) ;-) > > Too late. They've nuked the site: > > === grog@freebie (/dev/ttyp8) ~/Mail 54 -> ping www.iti.qc.ca Try again. -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 19:44:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA14495 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14490 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 19:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA11247; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:43:51 +1000 Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA09693; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:13:49 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970818121348.56163@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:13:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Pedro Giffuni S," Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD background logo References: <19970814140939.22800@deepo.prosa.dk> <19970817111748.32810@klemm.gtn.com> <33F74667.13C9@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <33F74667.13C9@fps.biblos.unal.edu.co>; from Pedro Giffuni S, on Sun, Aug 17, 1997 at 11:43:51AM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Aug 17, 1997 at 11:43:51AM -0700, Pedro Giffuni S, wrote: > Andreas Klemm wrote: >> >> On Thu, Aug 14, 1997 at 02:09:39PM +0200, Philippe Regnauld wrote: >> > Had fun with the Gimp. Take a look at: >> > >> > http://hotel.prosa.dk/~pjr/FreeBSD >> >> Looks good :-) >> > Yeah, it looks nice, but can we mention UNIX without being sued? Of course we can. The name is just copyrighted; you're still allowed to write it. There's nothing here that suggests that FreeBSD is UNIX--on the contrary, it reminds me a little of Kirk McKusick's limited edition Daemon T-shirt with the deflated death star on the end of the fork. Having said that, notice the text at the top left of the cover of "The Complete FreeBSD": FreeBSD Turns your PC into a Powerful UNIX Workstation Nobody's complained about that so far. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 20:46:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18092 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18087 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.5/8.6.6) id UAA26375; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 20:46:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199708180346.UAA26375@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD background logo Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <19970818121348.56163.kithrup.freebsd.chat@lemis.com> Greg writes: >Of course we can. The name is just copyrighted; you're still allowed >to write it. The name is *trademarked*. It is a registered trademark of USL, which is owned by SCO; X/Open, Ltd. (or is it just The Open Group now?) has exclusive rights to license the trademark. >it reminds me a little of Kirk McKusick's >limited edition Daemon T-shirt with the deflated death star on the end >of the fork. True story: it used to be a deflated death star (aka AT&T's logo), until a certain Dennis Ritchie complained, because AT&T was no longer the owner of UNIX. (I have, somewhere, one of those original shirts.) From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 21:56:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA25161 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 21:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA25156 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 21:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA14486; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:55:57 +1000 Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id OAA10414; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:25:55 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970818142554.05331@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:25:54 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Sean Eric Fagan Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD background logo References: <199708180346.UAA26375@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199708180346.UAA26375@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Sun, Aug 17, 1997 at 08:46:45PM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, Aug 17, 1997 at 08:46:45PM -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > In article <19970818121348.56163.kithrup.freebsd.chat@lemis.com> Greg writes: >> Of course we can. The name is just copyrighted; you're still allowed >> to write it. > > The name is *trademarked*. I stand corrected. > It is a registered trademark of USL, which is > owned by SCO; X/Open, Ltd. (or is it just The Open Group now?) has exclusive > rights to license the trademark. > >> it reminds me a little of Kirk McKusick's >> limited edition Daemon T-shirt with the deflated death star on the end >> of the fork. > > True story: it used to be a deflated death star (aka AT&T's logo), until a > certain Dennis Ritchie complained, because AT&T was no longer the owner of > UNIX. Yup: > From: dmr@alice.att.com (Dennis Ritchie) > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd > Subject: Re: BSD T-Shirts? > Message-ID: <26268@alice.att.com> > Date: 11 Aug 93 06:47:56 GMT > Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ > Lines: 17 > Status: RO > > Sigh. Does the new BSD T-Shirt really still have a deflated > deathstar with horizontal blue lines, or does it have the new one > with grey right-angled lines? I mean, look. Gimme a break. > > Judge Debevoise turned out not to care much that USL placed > BSDI in the imaginary town of Richmond Falls, Virginia, > and the new judge probably won't care much that the Regents say > that USL is still a majority-owned subsidiary of AT&T. > > But some people do care about these details, right? > > In return for a correctly-styled T-shirt and transportation > expenses, I'll trade you a stint as an expert witness > in either trial. No joke. > > > Dennis Ritchie I didn't keep Kirk's reply, but he complied. The next thing I have is (truncated): > Article: 32566 of comp.unix.bsd > Path: lemis!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!toe.CS.Berkeley.EDU!mckusick > From: mckusick@toe.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kirk McKusick) > Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd > Subject: Re: BSD T-Shirts? > Message-ID: <269cf4$398@agate.berkeley.edu> > Date: 4 Sep 93 06:26:44 GMT > References: <1993Aug16.145408.21797@Princeton.EDU> y.gnu.ai.mit.edu> > Organization: University of California, Berkeley > Lines: 71 > NNTP-Posting-Host: toe.cs.berkeley.edu > Status: RO > > The new 4.4BSD T-shirts are just now hot off the presses. The new > art has the BSD Daemon standing in Birkenstocks on top of the world > skewering a deathsquare on his trident. Under the picture is the > text ``Free the Berkeley 4.4!''. The available sizes are Youth > Small (YS, ages 6-9), Youth Medium (YM, ages 10-13), Youth Large > (YL, ages 14-16), Adult Small (S), Adult Medium (M), Adult Large > (L), Adult Extra Large (XL), and Adult Extra Extra Large (XXL). > The shirts are available only in ash, as that color is designed to > integrate with the six color halftone artwork. The shirts are > Hanes ``Beefy-T'' preshrunk 100% cotton; they are generously cut, > so after their first washing will fit similarly to a polyester > shirt of the same size. > (I have, somewhere, one of those original shirts.) Yes, so do I. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 23:36:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA00299 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc8.ihf.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.90.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA00278; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.90.6]) by ghpc8.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.5/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA17624; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:35:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from thomas@localhost) by ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA07769; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:35:45 +0200 (CEST) To: Bill Fenner Cc: Garrett Wollman , Bill Fenner , pst@jnx.com, fenner@hub.freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: bin/1831 References: <97Aug17.142237pdt.177513@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> From: Thomas Gellekum Date: 18 Aug 1997 08:35:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill Fenner's message of Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:22:22 PDT Message-ID: <87d8ncdmm6.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Fenner writes: > > but if I don't get to it this week I won't get to it for a month > since I'm taking a couple of weeks off to get married... It takes a couple of weeks to get married? ;-) tg From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 17 23:38:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA00407 for chat-outgoing; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00402 for ; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <53472(3)>; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:38:13 PDT Received: by crevenia.parc.xerox.com id <177513>; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:38:10 -0700 From: Bill Fenner To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bin/1831 Message-Id: <97Aug17.233810pdt.177513@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:37:58 PDT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Boy, oh boy, I knew I should have just stopped at ".. couple of weeks off" ... Bill From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 00:46:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA04723 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04714 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00918 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:13:28 +0200 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id JAA23524 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:48:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id JAA07419; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:45:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19970818094522.47567@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:45:22 +0200 From: Philippe Regnauld To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD IRC server Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: Main Body X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can't find any reference in the archives, so... Whatever happened to irc.freebsd.org ? It used to work back in June, but nothing now... What's the next best place to locate #freebsd ? Thanks (PS: not subscribed to freebsd-chat -- hit me with a reply :-) -- -- Phil -[ Philippe Regnauld / Systems Administrator / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]- -[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E PGP Key: finger regnauld@hotel.prosa.dk ]- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 00:57:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA05455 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA05450 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA19999; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 17:56:34 +1000 Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA10920; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 17:26:33 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970818172633.45634@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 17:26:33 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Thomas Gellekum Cc: freebsd-chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: bin/1831 References: <97Aug17.142237pdt.177513@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> <87d8ncdmm6.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <87d8ncdmm6.fsf@ghpc6.ihf.rwth-aachen.de>; from Thomas Gellekum on Mon, Aug 18, 1997 at 08:35:45AM +0200 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Aug 18, 1997 at 08:35:45AM +0200, Thomas Gellekum wrote: > Bill Fenner writes: >> >> but if I don't get to it this week I won't get to it for a month >> since I'm taking a couple of weeks off to get married... > > It takes a couple of weeks to get married? ;-) If you do it right, even more. You should try it some time :-) Congratulations, Bill Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 05:21:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA17731 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 05:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17725 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 05:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA19422; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 05:21:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Philippe Regnauld cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD IRC server In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:45:22 +0200." <19970818094522.47567@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 05:21:25 -0700 Message-ID: <19418.871906885@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I shot it down until such time as the FreeBSD folks standardize on some version of ircd through the ports collection mechanism and we can all start working on fixing a common version, since it seems that all the versions currently floating around out there either don't build directly under FreeBSD or have big security holes in them (and in any case, their lineages are highly suspect). Jordan > Can't find any reference in the archives, so... > > Whatever happened to irc.freebsd.org ? It used to work > back in June, but nothing now... What's the next best place > to locate #freebsd ? > > Thanks > > (PS: not subscribed to freebsd-chat -- hit me with a reply :-) > > -- > -- Phil > > -[ Philippe Regnauld / Systems Administrator / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk ]- > -[ Location.: +55.4N +11.3E PGP Key: finger regnauld@hotel.prosa.dk ]- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 05:29:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA18067 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 05:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA18049; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 05:29:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708181227.IAA18247@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:29:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: andrew@ugh.net.au cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, chat@freebsd.org, platforms@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speed test In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Aug 1997 andrew@ugh.net.au wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 1997 dkelly@hiwaay.net wrote: > > > > I somehow doubt that there are many Mac owners who are into UNIX ... > > > > I've always said, "Gimme a Mac, or gimme Unix, keep the half-baked poor > > excuse Microsoft boxes to yourself." Maybe I'm 3-sigma? > > Mac users are far more likely to use UNIX. After all they recognised one > brilliant computer system...why not another? :-) > > Andrew > The average Mac user forgets how to use his brain when you take away his mouse. Jamie Bowden System Administrator, iTRiBE.net From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 06:41:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA22315 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 06:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22305 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 06:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA05418; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:39:03 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:39:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199708181339.PAA05418@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: Philippe Regnauld CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Philippe Regnauld's message of Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:45:22 +0200 Subject: Re: FreeBSD IRC server References: <19970818094522.47567@deepo.prosa.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Can't find any reference in the archives, so... > > Whatever happened to irc.freebsd.org ? It used to work > back in June, but nothing now... What's the next best place > to locate #freebsd ? Well, EFnet #freebsd is huge (e.g, irc.gate.net). If you want BSDnet (which was what irc.freebsd.org gatewayed to) you can go through irc.openbsd.org. Other than that, we also have a small one on IRCnet - I don't have a public server handy, though. (Might be one on irc.best.net or ircd.best.net - I don't remember, as I personally use limited servers) Eivind. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 07:15:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA24062 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x22 (ppp1541.on.sympatico.ca [206.172.249.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24056 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by x22 (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00277; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:14:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Eivind Eklund cc: Philippe Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD IRC server In-Reply-To: <199708181339.PAA05418@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > Well, EFnet #freebsd is huge (e.g, irc.gate.net). If you want BSDnet > (which was what irc.freebsd.org gatewayed to) you can go through > irc.openbsd.org. Other than that, we also have a small one on IRCnet > - I don't have a public server handy, though. (Might be one on > irc.best.net or ircd.best.net - I don't remember, as I personally use > limited servers) There's also irc.inna.net, irc.au.freebsd.org, irc.mill.net, and irc.lamb.net. :) -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 08:55:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA29247 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA29225 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa05473; 18 Aug 97 11:52 EDT Received: from archive.cs.Virginia.EDU (root@archive.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.9]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08558 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (atf3r@stretch-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.14]) by archive.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21610 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by stretch.cs.Virginia.edu (4.1/SMI-2.0) id AA20687; Mon, 18 Aug 97 11:51:59 EDT Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: adrian@virginia.edu To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD --- ALPHA In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Warner Losh wrote: > [ moving this to chat.. ] > > : > Somebody should repost the J. Monroy and the motorcycle cowlings post > : Or better yet, J. Monroy Sr.'s denunciation of J. Monroy Jr. > : That was a real hoot. Deliberate mispellings and all. > > Heh. Maybe it is time for a jkh rant shrine somewhere. Wayward Yes, and excellent idea. Frankly I am amazed that Jordan has never won "flame of the year". I believe Marc Andersen won this honor for the "Merry Fucking X-Mas" post to slince the people winging about Motif runtime licensing and how it would affect Mosaic. Jordan, you've been overlooked for far too long. Demand your tribute! Perhaps if someone can find jmonroy and poke him with a sharp stick we may get an award winning flame out for Jordan yet. .... than again, perhpas we should let sleeping jmonroy's lie.... Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 12:14:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11270 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11257 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02140; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708181914.NAA02140@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Bill Fenner Cc: freebsd-chat@hub.freebsd.org Subject: Re: bin/1831 In-Reply-To: <97Aug17.142237pdt.177513@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> References: <199708172033.QAA02219@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <97Aug17.142237pdt.177513@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bill Fenner writes: > ... if I don't get to it this week I won't get to it for a month > since I'm taking a couple of weeks off to get married... Congratulations! Is this the lady we met last year at 'The Stinking Rose'? Nate From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 12:22:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11971 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from muffin.highwire.local (serialA2d.innotts.co.uk [194.176.130.46]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11918; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.99.31] (robsmac.highwire.local [172.16.99.31]) by muffin.highwire.local (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00207; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:19:00 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: robmel@muffin.highwire.local Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199708181227.IAA18247@gatekeeper.itribe.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:19:32 +0100 To: Jamie Bowden , andrew@ugh.net.au From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: speed test Cc: dkelly@hiwaay.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, platforms@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 1:29 pm +0100 18/8/97, Jamie Bowden wrote: >> Mac users are far more likely to use UNIX. After all they recognised one >> brilliant computer system...why not another? :-) >> >> Andrew >> > >The average Mac user forgets how to use his brain when you take away his >mouse. hmmm.... however, it's good that we were lucky enough to have a brain in the first place Jamie ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction Information Services Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team Tel: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 work: robmel@nadt.org.uk home: robmel@innotts.co.uk Pages: http://www.innotts.co.uk/~robmel (home page) http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt (substance misuse pages) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 14:04:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17997 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17954 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.5/8.6.6) id OAA03000 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:03:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199708182103.OAA03000@kithrup.com> To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: SCO announced SysVr5 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/97/08/18/intc_scoc_1.html Monday August 18 4:00 PM EDT Company Press Release Source: Santa Cruz Operation Inc. SCO Unleashes Most Advanced Server Technology for the Intel Platform New SVR5 UNIX Kernel to Deliver Unprecedented Levels of Performance, Reliability, Scalability, Capacity, and Support for Network Computing SCO FORUM97, SANTA CRUZ, Calif., Aug. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- SCO (Nasdaq:SCOC - news), the undisputed volume leader in the UNIX server market, today unveiled its next-generation System V Release 5 (SVR5) UNIX kernel technology, as well as plans for its first SVR5-based products to be released at the end of the calendar year. The new SVR5 kernel technology will deliver Intel customers unprecedented levels of performance, reliability, scalability, and capacity. Products based on the SVR5 technology will form the underpinnings of revolutionary Network Computing environments and cost-effective, enterprise-level solutions. SCO also announced the availability of a beta version of their next-generation UnixWare operating system -- originally code-named Gemini -- based on the SVR5 technology. SCO will release a full range of products based on the SVR5 technology starting at the end of 1997, under the UnixWare banner. The next-generation UnixWare systems based on the new SVR5 kernel technology will also deliver a state-of-the-art network user interface (NUI) that provides access to all applications and system functions from virtually ANY device, demonstrating conclusively that Network Computing has become a reality. ``Today another landmark was achieved in the 30 year history of the UNIX operating system,'' said Doug Michels, executive vice president and CTO of SCO. ``We have designed the most technologically advanced and feature-rich kernel that this industry has ever seen, period. We have laid the foundation for the next generation of UNIX operating systems and aimed squarely at delivering the best servers for network computing. The products that we will introduce over the coming years that are based on the SVR5 kernel will provide our customers with a direct path to the upcoming 64-bit platforms.'' Michels continued, ``Not only does the SVR5 technology drive SCO's lead in scalability, performance and Network Computing further ahead, it also has the advantage of supporting the thousands of enterprise UNIX applications developed on earlier SCO UNIX kernels including UnixWare 2.x, OpenServer Release 5, and SCO's older SVR4 used by Sun as the base for Solaris 2.6.'' System V Release 5 The SVR5 kernel technology is optimized for high-powered enterprise computing, server-centric Network Computing, and to immediately support the most business critical applications in the world. The superior design of the SVR5 kernel includes dramatic enhancements in overall performance, capacity, scalability, and reliability while providing a smooth migration to future 64-bit systems. SCO has focused development efforts in several key areas: Breakneck Performance: SVR5 customers will realize a 250% increase in network performance over current SVR4 releases, which is the base for SCO's existing SCO UnixWare 2.x and Sun Solaris 2.x products. Technology enhancements designed for ccNUMA systems have significantly improved overall system performance and efficiency. This includes improved process synchronization and scheduling, as well as system memory management. The SVR5 kernel also features support for I2O, Intel's new intelligent I/O specification, improving overall system throughput. Unparalleled Capacity and Scalability: The SVR5 kernel reaches new levels of memory and storage support for the Intel platform, including up to 64Gbytes of main memory, up to 1Tbyte file and file systems, and 512 logical disks. These improvements in memory support allow customers to scale systems based on SVR5 technology from small business, mail, Web, application, and file and print servers up through to large scale enterprise systems supporting thousands of users. Superior Reliability and Availability: SVR5 technology has extended SCO's lead in Intel server clustering. It has been designed to support clustering architectures that include server failover and ccNUMA. The SVR5 technology provides built-in device failover capabilities with a technology called Multi-path I/O. It also features support for Compaq's PCI Hot Plug, allowing ``hot'' swapping of faulty adapter cards without downtime to the system. * 64-bit Technology: The SVR5 kernel includes support for 64-bit file systems and implements 64-bit libraries, commands and APIs. SVR5 compilers also support 64-bit APIs and will enable developers to quickly develop 64-bit applications using standard SCO tools for Intel's Merced processors. New Server Solutions Based on SVR5 At the end of 1997, SCO will begin releasing a series of products based on the new SVR5 technologies that will fall under SCO's UnixWare banner. Specific product names, configurations, and pricing will be announced as systems are released. These products will include a series of improvements tightly integrated into the operating system to take advantage of network computing environments, including: Greater Usability: The new UnixWare systems based on the SVR5 technology will feature Java-based administration and support for a Webtop interface, greatly reducing the complexity of using and administering the system. They will also feature CDE, the standard graphical interface for UNIX systems. Cutting-edge Application Management: The new UnixWare systems include SCO's breakthrough Tarantella technology, providing improved access and management to all existing applications over the network from virtually any device. Complete Java Support: SCO has optimized the Java Virtual Machine (JVM) to offer exceptional performance and to exploit the scalability of the SVR5 kernel. The Java Development Kit and JVM are included to enable development of Java applications and applets on current and future SCO platforms. Michael Pope, Director of Enterprise Server Programs at Intel Corporation, said, ``With these significant enhancements to their next-generation operating systems, SCO has provided a seamless migration path for OpenServer and UnixWare customers along with a new level of enterprise features and functionality. The new SVR5-based UnixWare products will take maximum advantage of increased computing power of the current and next-generation Intel processors.'' Full SCO OpenServer and SCO UnixWare Compatibility The SCO OpenServer system -- currently the volume UNIX system leader and the SCO flagship product for small to medium businesses -- will be sustained by SCO through a series of releases, hardware updates, and feature enhancements. SCO has made SVR5 binary compatible with all existing SCO UnixWare, SVR4, and SCO OpenServer applications, providing customers and partners with a painless transition to systems based on the SVR5 technology. From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 18 22:52:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA12882 for chat-outgoing; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12871 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id HAA13403; Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:52:03 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA19313; Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:44:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970819074418.CV60952@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:44:18 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Please Help Me Understand dlopen()] References: <22405.871954857@time.cdrom.com> <199708190257.TAA06199@austin.polstra.com> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199708190257.TAA06199@austin.polstra.com>; from John Polstra on Aug 18, 1997 19:57:55 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As John Polstra wrote: > > > I agree that it's a bug, and I followed up there saying I planned to > > > fix it. One fix would be switching to ELF, of course ... ;-) > > > > Well, let's do it then. :) > > OK, will do. I'm sure glad that got settled so easily! ;-) > > [He ducks back into his burrow and stays there, for his own > protection.] No need to duck. You know, this group is acting after the Parkinson law. You can get agreement for a move to ELF without discussion if you pose the question right, but you can't reach any form of agreement for whether to have `abuse' in /etc/aliases commented out or not. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Aug 20 17:38:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18735 for chat-outgoing; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18726 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (max7-254.HiWAAY.net [208.147.145.254]) by fly.HiWAAY.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA21646 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:38:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA04451 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:38:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708210038.TAA04451@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: dkelly@hiwaay.net Subject: A little humor (was Re: Is there still problems with Adaptec UW controllers (fwd) ) In-reply-to: Message from "Rodney W. Grimes" of "Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:15:21 PDT." <199708201515.IAA24984@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:38:14 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > minimum strain. Such a testing methodology would only be a recipe for > > building bridges which fall down during actual use and of interest > > purely to fools and masochists. > > 80% of the PC industry are fools and masochists :-) :-) That prompted a memory, and fortunately I remembered where I filed it: SOFTWARE TORTURED DURING TESTING, PETS CLAIMS Victims Cooped up in Tiny Rooms People for Ethical Treatment of Software (PETS) announced today that more software companies have been added to the group's "watchlist" of companies that regularly practice software testing. "There is no need for software to be mistreated in this manner so that companies like these can market new products," said Ken Granola, a spokes-bipodal-being for PETS. "Alternative methods of testing these products are available." According to PETS, these companies force software to undergo lengthy and arduous tests - often without rest - for hours or days at a time. Employees are assigned to "break" the software by any means necessary, and inside sources report that they often joke about "torturing" the software. "It's no joke," Granola said. "Innocent programs, from the day they are compiled and linked, are cooped up in tiny rooms and 'crashed' for hours on end. They spend their whole lives on dirty, ill-maintained, 16bit Intel computers, and they are unceremoniously deleted when they're not needed anymore." Granola said the software is kept in unsanitary conditions and is infested with bugs. "We know that alternatives to this horror exist," he said, citing industry giant Microsoft Corp. as a company that has become successful without resorting to software testing. - Original author unknown From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 11:42:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11506 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toth.ferginc.com (toth.ferginc.com [205.139.23.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11490 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by toth.ferginc.com (You/Wish) with SMTP id OAA01054 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Posted-Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:41:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Branson Matheson X-Sender: branson@toth.hq.ferg.com Reply-To: Branson Matheson To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Plug in Aug 97 SunExpert Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FreeBSD recieved a HUGH plug in that issue! Title of the artice: A sucessor to SunOS In my book.. that is a high rating indeed. Kudos to the ports guys as well as they recieved quite a large plug for their effort and concept!! - branson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Branson Matheson " If you are falling off of a mountain, System Administrator You may as well try to fly." Ferguson Enterprises - Delenn, Mimbari Ambassador ( $statements = ) !~ /Corporate Opinion/; From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 12:31:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14417 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14409; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:31:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199708211931.MAA14409@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Plug in Aug 97 SunExpert To: branson.matheson@ferginc.com Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Branson Matheson" at Aug 21, 97 02:41:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk thanks to richard morin of PrimeTime Freeware to this article. richard did another article about a year ago in his unix review column "the internet notebook". jmb Branson Matheson wrote: > > > FreeBSD recieved a HUGH plug in that issue! Title of the artice: > > A sucessor to SunOS > > In my book.. that is a high rating indeed. Kudos to the ports guys as > well as they recieved quite a large plug for their effort and > concept!! > > - branson > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Branson Matheson " If you are falling off of a mountain, > System Administrator You may as well try to fly." > Ferguson Enterprises - Delenn, Mimbari Ambassador > ( $statements = ) !~ /Corporate Opinion/; > > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 15:13:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA22746 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xmission.xmission.com (softweyr@xmission.xmission.com [198.60.22.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22719 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from softweyr@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) id QAA21565 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:12:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Wes Peters - Softweyr LLC Message-Id: <199708212212.QAA21565@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Rumors of the death of Unix have been greatly exaggerated... To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:12:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is the first line of an interesting article by Jeff Bliss of _Computer Reseller News_. He summarizes the NT and UNIX marketplaces as follows: Revenue UNIX NT 1996 19B .8B 1999/2000 37B 6.5B Whoa, wait a minute? I thought NT had already killed UNIX? Why is it that last year UNIX outsold NT sytems by *24 times*? And, even given the "explosive growth" projected for NT, in 2000 it will still sell *one sixth" of the UNIX marketplace? Not to mention all the UNIX systems (our dearly beloved FreeBSD, Linux, NetBSD, etc) that don't contribute money, but do contributed *seats* to the UNIX world. NT, I sneer at thee! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 15:35:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA23922 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyger.inna.net (root@tyger.inna.net [206.151.66.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA23907 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caught.inna.net (caught.inna.net [206.151.66.7]) by tyger.inna.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06255; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:34:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Arnold To: ac199@hwcn.org cc: Eivind Eklund , Philippe Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD IRC server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > Well, EFnet #freebsd is huge (e.g, irc.gate.net). If you want BSDnet > > (which was what irc.freebsd.org gatewayed to) you can go through > > irc.openbsd.org. Other than that, we also have a small one on IRCnet > > - I don't have a public server handy, though. (Might be one on > > irc.best.net or ircd.best.net - I don't remember, as I personally use > > limited servers) > > There's also irc.inna.net, irc.au.freebsd.org, irc.mill.net, and > irc.lamb.net. :) Dont forget our main one. irc.bsdnet.org ( cname for irc.lamb.net ). irc.openbsd.net currently is a cname for irc.inna.net however when I get this damn Sun working irc.openbsd.net will point at its own OpenBSD box. ( no fault of OpenBSD's... I just haven't had the time to drag that thing outa the closet ). Who do I talk to at NetBSD and BSDI to see if they'd like to join also? /me grins :-) +-----------------------------------------------+ : Tom Arnold - No relation to Rosanne : : SysAdmin/Pres - TBI, Ltd ( inna.net ) : : The Middle Peninsula's Internet Connection : +-----------------------------------------------+ From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 16:50:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA01364 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01359 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01892; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:48:41 -0700 (PDT) To: Thomas Arnold cc: ac199@hwcn.org, Eivind Eklund , Philippe Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD IRC server In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:34:20 EDT." Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:48:40 -0700 Message-ID: <1888.872207320@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, IRC is back up at povray.cdrom.com AKA irc.freebsd.org just as soon as I get David to put the CNAME back. Looks like we had a port of ircd after all, I just took it to be an irc client all these years because it wasn't named "ircd" ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 16:57:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA01859 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01851 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02688; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708212356.QAA02688@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Branson Matheson cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Plug in Aug 97 SunExpert In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:41:15 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:56:54 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can you make a copy of the article available? Cheers, Amancio >From The Desk Of Branson Matheson : > > FreeBSD recieved a HUGH plug in that issue! Title of the artice: > > A sucessor to SunOS > > In my book.. that is a high rating indeed. Kudos to the ports guys as > well as they recieved quite a large plug for their effort and > concept!! > > - branson > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Branson Matheson " If you are falling off of a mountain, > System Administrator You may as well try to fly." > Ferguson Enterprises - Delenn, Mimbari Ambassador > ( $statements = ) !~ /Corporate Opinion/; > From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 19:53:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10111 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10106 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sister.ludd.luth.se (smurfen@sister.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.77]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA00679; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 04:52:57 +0200 Received: from localhost (smurfen@localhost) by sister.ludd.luth.se (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id EAA04016; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 04:52:42 +0200 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 04:52:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Ola Persson To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Thomas Arnold , ac199@hwcn.org, Eivind Eklund , Philippe Regnauld , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD IRC server In-Reply-To: <1888.872207320@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > had a port of ircd after all, I just took it to be an irc client > all these years because it wasn't named "ircd" ;-) Congartualtions, did you find that out just now ? :) /Ola From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 22:25:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA16364 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA16356 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA07344; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708220532.XAA07344@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Sean Eric Fagan CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: SCO announced SysVr5 In-Reply-To: <199708182103.OAA03000@kithrup.com> References: <199708182103.OAA03000@kithrup.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sean Eric Fagan writes: > Monday August 18 4:00 PM EDT > > Company Press Release > > Source: Santa Cruz Operation Inc. Nice to see SCO still has their Vice President in Charge of Numerous Breathless Adjectives and Adverbs running at full tilt. Too bad their software sucks, huh? Did they really do anything to warrant calling this "SVR5", or has the "version number as marketing tool" taken over at SCO, too? By the way, Sean, didn't you used to work for the SCO Bozos? I seem to remember some nasty three-way arguments between you, me, and Terry Lambert a number of years ago, when Usenet ruled the earth. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 22:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA16510 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA16499 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA07669; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708220538.XAA07669@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Marco Molteni CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: SUMMARY: Apple Newton MessagePad In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marco Molteni writes: > Well, I really like -chat ! ;-) > Thanks to everybody who replied. > > There are two fronts here on -chat: > - those who suggested the USRobotics Palm Pilot > - those who suggested the Apple Newton MessagePad 2000 Just to confuse the issue, Newton is no longer owned by Apple; they've been spun off into their own company. On a probably related note, the Newto SDK is now available on Winblows as well as MacOS. > I choosed the Newton, because for what _I_ am going to do, the Palm > Pilot is too small. Anyway, I think the Palm Pilot is a very good toy > too, especially for the price. Yeah, I know what you mean. If the Pilot just had a single PCMCIA slot, or something like that. > If someone is interested in PDAs or Windows CEs and similar, the > august issue of Byte Magazine has a (biased :-( ) report: > "Hand-Helds get serious", in which they compare 10 hand-helds, from > the MessagePad to the HP 320LX to the Philips Velo 1 to the Palm > Pilot. I think you can find the article also online (www.byte.com). The WinCE's as a group are pretty lame: although they have bigger screens and a keyboard, most of them are not much more functional that the Pilot, but cost nearly as much as a Newton. Most of them have a PCMCIA/PCcard slot, but you can't run it on batteries, only when plugged into the wall. What a crock. > Thanks again to the wonderfully "not > normal" people on -chat. Yeah, this is a pretty fun group, isn't it? Even when we're arguing politics, it stays fairly polite. We kind of tend to be an eggheaded lot, though. ;^) > "This snakeskin jacket symbolizes my individuality and belief in personal > freedom". Snakeskin? For me, it would just symbolize my dislike of reptilians. They remind me too much of a VP I used to work for. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 22:44:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17109 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17104 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.5/8.6.6) id WAA05583; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:44:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199708220544.WAA05583@kithrup.com> To: softweyr@xmission.com Subject: Re: SCO announced SysVr5 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Did they really do anything to warrant calling >this "SVR5", or has the "version number as marketing tool" taken over at >SCO, too? That's a good question. I think a large part for the new version is because it's now a SCO thing. However, their "Open Server" (descendent of "Open Desktop") has diverged significantly since SysVr3.2, and since the new OS is a merge of SysVr4 and it, it kinda makes sense. Also, of course, a big thing is that it will be 64-bit compliant -- including 64-bit file offsets on 32-bit machines. Those are the biggest changes *I* know of. >By the way, Sean, didn't you used to work for the SCO Bozos? I seem to >remember some nasty three-way arguments between you, me, and Terry >Lambert a number of years ago, when Usenet ruled the earth. ;^) Yes, I used to work for SCO, and I would again, if they were doing OS development in Santa Cruz (which they're not, btw). I had problems with some parts of it, but, all in all, I liked the OS. Their 3.2 (aka 3.2.0 and 3.2.1, prior to 3.2v2) was not very good, but that was largely due to them needing (for market reasons) to get a SysVr3.2 product out *NOW*. 3.2v2 was significantly better. I think the SCO OSes were much maligned. I do admit, I really liked Xenix/386 -- it ran X in 4MBytes, for crying out loud! Stable, fast, and small. Wonderful system. (And I did my first "device driver" for that -- /dev/fd, character special nodes that essentially did a dup of the file descriptor corresponding to the minor number.) 3.2v2 was pretty nice, I think. It had working job control (lots of my work there). I still remember one night, I was hacking away at it, trying to get it to work -- and became aware of someone standing behind me. When I looked, I found myself being watched by Doug Michels. (Contrary to popular belief, he did *not* sexually harass me that night. :)) Prior to SCO's acquisition of HCR, in Canadia, I worked on the compiler almost exclusively. I probably knew the Microsoft C Compiler better than all but four or five people in the world. This, incidently, is why I will no longer do compiler internals work :). I still remember some optimization bugs "fondly." :) After the acquisition, I moved to the OS group. The most significant thing I did was adding long filenames and symbolic links to the post-3.2v2 filesytem. That was fun. As practice for it, I also wrote a minimal procfs for the system (it never got released, although I wonder if the code is still on a backup tape somewhere...). The only thing I used it for was to write a renice program -- it did an fcntl() on a /proc file. I know people bitched about lots of things about SCO, but, as I said, I thought it was okay. I know why they did lots of things they did, and why they didn't do lots of things. Their biggest failing as an OS, I think, was that they eventually worked more on features than on tuning the OS. (This, in fact, started with SysVr3.2v3 [which was never released].) So now they've got an OS which causes a 90MHz Pentium with 16MBytes to feel slower than the 25MHz 386 that was the original kithrup. (Of course, that was a development version... hopefully they will spend time tuning it.) And that, of course, gets back to Xenix/286 and Xenix/386. The rate of development was much less than, and Xenix/286 had a period of years in which it was tuned for the PC architecture. So it was *fast*, and *stable*. Pity that can't get done anymore. From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Aug 21 23:19:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA18806 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obie.softweyr.ml.org ([199.104.124.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18801 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from wes@localhost) by obie.softweyr.ml.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA09766; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199708220617.AAA09766@obie.softweyr.ml.org> From: Wes Peters To: Peter Dufault CC: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speed test In-Reply-To: <199708161129.HAA27288@hda.hda.com> References: <19970815222430.43082@grendel.IAEhv.nl> <199708161129.HAA27288@hda.hda.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Peter Dufault writes: > > , next is either Motorola or SGI (MIPS). > > I don't think so. What will go in the N64? If SGI tubes than > MIPS is in trouble. Apparenty you folks don't realize the VR4300 is now the #1 selling processor in the world? Amazing what shipping 1,000,000 units a month can do for you, huh? Don't forget the Sony Playstation is using this same processor. Maybe somebody oughtta work on N64BSD? ;^) > (press fingers to forehead and close eyes) "When Dec is purchased > by Microsoft early next year to become their service and system > integration division that will be the end of the Alpha". ("Solution > providers? We don't need no stinkin' solution providers (*kick* to > the temple)") > > Microsoft will then spin off the hardware side of DEC to wither > and die, so as not to worry all the companies killing each other > to be Microsoft's low margin hardware division. The way DEC has been selling lately, if Microsoft doesn't buy them this year, FreeBSD Inc. will be able to buy them next year. Better get cracking on that Alpha port, Jordan! ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 00:48:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA23552 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA23544 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA03878; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 17:45:24 +1000 Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA26764; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 17:15:19 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970822171519.25232@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 17:15:19 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Sean Eric Fagan Cc: softweyr@xmission.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO announced SysVr5 References: <199708220544.WAA05583@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199708220544.WAA05583@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Thu, Aug 21, 1997 at 10:44:42PM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Aug 21, 1997 at 10:44:42PM -0700, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: >> By the way, Sean, didn't you used to work for the SCO Bozos? I seem to >> remember some nasty three-way arguments between you, me, and Terry >> Lambert a number of years ago, when Usenet ruled the earth. ;^) > > Yes, I used to work for SCO, and I would again, if they were doing OS > development in Santa Cruz (which they're not, btw). > > I had problems with some parts of it, but, all in all, I liked the OS. > Their 3.2 (aka 3.2.0 and 3.2.1, prior to 3.2v2) was not very good, but that > was largely due to them needing (for market reasons) to get a SysVr3.2 > product out *NOW*. 3.2v2 was significantly better. > > I think the SCO OSes were much maligned. I do admit, I really liked > Xenix/386 -- it ran X in 4MBytes, for crying out loud! Stable, fast, and > small. Wonderful system. (And I did my first "device driver" for that -- > /dev/fd, character special nodes that essentially did a dup of the file > descriptor corresponding to the minor number.) In many ways, I liked XENIX too. It was a well rounded system for its day. And it ran in 1.5 MB, for crying out loud! Mind you, with that kind of memory, that's what you'd probably do. The German Federal Railways run a network of the machines (now updated to UNIX, I believe) for ticket sales. The only problem was that they didn't keep XENIX up to date, and it was sadly dated even in the early 90s. Greg From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 08:45:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA15086 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.cybercom.net (kalypso.cybercom.net [209.21.136.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15061 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlanta (mfo-dial1-29.cybercom.net [208.218.156.29]) by kalypso.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA00200 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 11:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970822034139.00978700@cybercom.net> X-Sender: ksmm@cybercom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 03:41:39 -0400 To: chat@freebsd.org From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: Re: Quantum 3.1G IDE HD - dual boot In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 08:12 PM 8/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >>We recently got a Quantum Fireball 3.1G IDE HD, and are trying to get Win >>95 and FreeBSD to dual boot. The drive info is: >> >>wd0: QUANTUM FIREBALL TM3200A 3067M 6281856 sectors 6232c/16h/63s 512b/sec >> This is intersting. I recently got a 6+ GB hard drive (Quantum Fireball, I think) and tried to install multiple operating systems on it. The results were as follows: WINDOWS 95 -- Windows 95 would only allow me to create a FAT16 partition less than 2 GB. If I used the FAT32 filesystem, it would allow me to use the entire disk without any problem. Of course, FAT32 is not backwards compatible with FAT16, so many utilities would be useless for drive repair/maintenance. WINDOWS NT 4.0 -- Windows NT's setup recognized the entire 6+ GB drive, but would only allow me to create an NTFS partition less than 4 GB. This actually surprised me, since NTFS, like HPFS (see below), has a theoretical limit of 512 GB. The 4 GB NTFS partition worked fine. However, some programs (all 32-bit and released within the past year) had problems installing because they reported the free disk space as being really low or even negative. I have PartitionMagic, which will allow dynamic resizing of NTFS (and many other) partitions, but I have not yet tried to use it to see if the NTFS partition would work at the full 6 GB. I am wondering what sysadmins do to get NT fileservers to work. Anybody? OS/2 WARP 4.0 -- The setup program reported the drive as a 94 MB hard drive, insufficient for an OS/2 installation. As a result OS/2 refused to install. Even after creating an HPFS partition with PartitionMagic, OS/2 refused to use it. HPFS has a theoretical limit of 512 GB, but the setup program seems to fail above 2 GB. Like NT (above), I suspect that the limitations are in the setup program and not in the operating system itself. SLACKWARE LINUX -- Recognized the entire drive and worked fine. No problems. FREEBSD -- Recognized the entire drive and worked fine. No problems. You'd think that after all the problem being caused by the Millenium Bug that programmers would create free space counts that would last more than 12-18 months. (A signed free space count...sheesh!) Oh, well. As usual, kudos go to the FreeBSD Core Team and its contributors. Keep up the good work. K.S. From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 10:47:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21735 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [198.53.145.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21730 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.3/8.7.6) with SMTP id NAA22061 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:11:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Griffith To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD, 1522, SCSI CDROM, HD timeout error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am having problems installing FreeBSD on an Adaptec 1522 SCSI card. On boot probe it sees the card with the external SCSI cdrom, and the IBM internal HD ( model no. DSAS-3540). However on the debug screen, it shows that both the CDROM and HD time out. The same card was just removed from my old 386, but it was attached to a old CDC HD. Where it ran FreeBSD v2.1 just fine for a long time. I am having this problem with FreeBSD v2.1.6 and Linux (Redhat, Slackware, OpenLinux). It works just fine under Win95. I think it's something very minor that I am not doing for Unix. Does anyone have any ideas ? Paul Griffith - paulg@interlog.com BTW: I do plan to update to FreeBSD v2.2.2 sometime in the future From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 12:30:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27554 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (passer.osg.gov.bc.ca [142.32.110.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27545 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.6.10) id MAA17079 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708221930.MAA17079@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "passer.osg.gov.bc.ca" via SMTP by localhost, id smtpdaasmma; Fri Aug 22 12:29:54 1997 Reply-to: cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca X-Mailer: MH X-Sender: cschuber To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: 101 THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR TO SAY. Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:29:53 -0700 From: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here's some Friday humor. Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 UNIX Support OV/VM: BCSC02(CSCHUBER) ITSD BITNET: CSCHUBER@BCSC02.BITNET Government of BC Internet: cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca cschuber@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca "Quit spooling around, JES do it." ------- Forwarded Message Delivery-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:23:35 -0700 Return-Path: pcmacdon@tadpole.osg.gov.bc.ca Received: (from uucp@localhost) by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca (8.8.7/8.6.10) id MAA18637 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:23:30 -0700 (PDT) From: pcmacdon@tadpole.osg.gov.bc.ca Received: from orca.gov.bc.ca(142.32.102.25) via SMTP by passer.osg.gov.bc.ca, id smtpdaangua; Fri Aug 22 12:23:21 1997 Received: from tadpole.osg.gov.bc.ca by orca.gov.bc.ca (5.4R3.10/200.1.1.4) id AA28313; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:23:20 -0700 Received: (qmail 15188 invoked by uid 554); 22 Aug 1997 19:23:18 -0000 Message-Id: <19970822192317.15187.qmail@tadpole.osg.gov.bc.ca> Subject: (fwd) 100things.html (fwd) To: cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca (Cy Shubert) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 12:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: pblake@uumail.gov.bc.ca (Peter Blake), bjsieben@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca (Barry Sieben), sgrant@torvm3.vnet.ibm.com (Steve Grant), herb@torvm3.vnet.ibm.com (Herb Gerard) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP3 *ALPHA*] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, this is pretty funny. If your a sysadm. Forwarded message: > > 101 THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR TO SAY. > > 1. Uh-oh..... > 2. Shit!! > 3. What the hell!? > 4. Go get your backup tape. (You do have a backup tape?) > 5. That's SOOOOO bizarre. > 6. Wow!! Look at this..... > 7. Hey!! The suns don't do this. > 8. Terminated??! > 9. What software license? > 10. Well, it's doing something..... > 11. Wow....that seemed fast..... > 12. I got a better job at Lockheed... > 13. Management says... > 14. Sorry, the new equipment didn't get budgetted. > 15. What do you mean that wasn't a copy? > 16. It didn't do that a minute ago... > 17. Where's the GUI on this thing? > 18. Damn, and I just bought that pop... > 19. Where's the DIR command? > 20. The drive ate the tape but that's OK, I brought my screwdriver. > 21. I cleaned up the root partition and now there's lots of free > space. > 22. What's this "any" key I'm supposed to press? > 23. Do you smell something? > 24. What's that grinding sound? > 25. I have never seen it do *that* before... > 26. I think it should not be doing that... > 27. I remember the last time I saw it do that... > 28. You might as well all go home early today ... > 29. My leave starts tomorrow. > 30. Ooops. > 31. Hmm, maybe if I do this... > 32. "Why is my "rm *.o" taking so long?" > 33. Hmmm, curious... > 34. Well, my files were backed up. > 35. What do you mean you needed that directory? > 36. What do you mean /home was on that disk? I umounted it! > 37. Do you really need your home directory to do any work? > 38. Oracle will be down until 8pm, but you can come back in and finish > your work when it comes up tonight. > 39. I didn't think anybody would be doing any work at 2am, so I killed > your job. > 40. Yes, I chowned all the files to belong to pvcs. Is that a problem > to you? > 41. We're standardizing on AIX. > 42. Wonder what this command does? > 43. What did you say your (l)user name was...? ;-) > 44. You did what to the floppy??? > 45. Sorry, we deleted that package last week... > 46. NO! Not that button! > 47. Uh huh......"nu -k $USER".. no problem....sure thing... > 48. Sorry, we deleted that package last week... > 49. [looks at workstation] "Say, what version of DOS is this running?" > 50. Oops! (said in a quiet, almost surprised voice) > 51. YEEEHA!!! What a CRASH!!! > 52. What do you mean that could take down the whole network? > 53. What's this switch for anyways...? > 54. Tell me again what that '-r' option to rm does > 55. Say, What does "Superblock Error" mean, anyhow? > 56. If I knew it wasn't going to work, I would have tested it sooner. > 57. Was that your directory? > 58. System coming down in 0 min.... > 59. The backup procedure works fine, but the restore is tricky! > 60. Hey Fred, did you save that posting about restoring filesystems > with vi and a toothpick? More importantly, did you print it out? > 61. OH, SH*T! (as they scrabble at the keyboard for ^c). > 62. The sprinkler system isn't supposed to leak is it? > 63. It is only a minor upgrade, the system should be back up in a few > hours. (This is said on a monday afternoon.) > 64. I think we can plug just one more thing in to this outlet strip > with out triping the breaker. > 65. What is all this I here about static charges destroying computers? > 66. I found this rabbit program that is supposed to test system > performance and I have it running now. > 67. Ummm... Didn't you say you turned it off? > 68. The network's down, but we're working on it. Come back after > diner. (Usually said at 2200 the night before thesis deadline...) > 69. Ooops. Save your work, everyone. FAST! > 70. Boy, it's a lot easier when you know what you're doing. > 71. I hate it when that happens. > 72. And what does it mean 'rm: .o: No such file or directory'? > 73. Why did it say '/bin/rm: not found'? > 74. Nobody was using that file /vmunix, were they? > 75. You can do this patch with the system up... > 76. What happens to a Hard Disk when you drop it? > 77. The only copy of Norton Utilities was on THAT disk??? > 78. Well, I've got a backup, but the only copy of the restore program > was on THAT disk.... > 79. What do mean by "fired"? > 80. hey, what does mkfs do? > 81. where did you say those backup tapes were kept? > 82. ...and if we just swap these two disc controllers like this... > 83. don't do that, it'll crash the sys........ SHIT > 84. what's this hash prompt on my terminal mean? > 85. dd if=/dev/null of=/vmunix > 86. find /usr2 -name nethack -exec rm -f {}; > 87. now it's funny you should ask that, because I don't know either > 88. Any more trouble from you and your account gets moved to the 750 > 89. Ooohh, lovely, it runs SVR4 > 90. SMIT makes it all so much easier...... > 91. Can you get VMS for this Sparc thingy? > 92. I don't care what he says, I'm not having it on my network > 93. We don't support that. We won't support that. > 94. ...and after I patched the microcode... > 95. You've got TECO. What more do you want? > 96. We prefer not to change the root password, it's an nice easy one > 97. Just add yourself to the password file and make a directory... > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Copyright 1995 by Richard L. Pieri > All rights reserved. > > Last modified: Tue Dec 5 13:03:46 1995 > > > -- > > _______________________________________________________________________ > Peter MacDonald Open Systems Group > PH: (250) 387-4818 Pharmacare Network Project > PROFS: PCMACDON INTERNET: pcmacdon@tadpole.osg.gov.bc.ca > _______________________________________________________________________ > > ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 13:51:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA01450 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA01445 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA06593; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 22:51:51 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA07368; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 22:39:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19970822223914.DW10161@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 22:39:14 +0200 From: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: paulg@interlog.com (Paul Griffith) Subject: Re: FreeBSD, 1522, SCSI CDROM, HD timeout error References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60_p2-3,5,8-9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: ; from Paul Griffith on Aug 22, 1997 13:11:13 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Paul Griffith wrote: > I am having problems installing FreeBSD on an Adaptec 1522 SCSI card. On > boot probe it sees the card with the external SCSI cdrom, and the IBM > internal HD ( model no. DSAS-3540). However on the debug screen, it shows > that both the CDROM and HD time out. Well, this is not very surprising. The aic(4) driver is basically unmaintained, and we no longer refer to it as `supported'. It went down into a `this might or might not work for you' item. Of course, we don't mind you applying for the vacant job of a maintainer for this driver. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 14:13:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA02388 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.mat.net (root@earth.mat.net [206.246.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02383 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Journey2.mat.net (journey2.mat.net [206.246.122.116]) by earth.mat.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA00175; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 17:12:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 17:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@Journey2.mat.net To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 101 THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR TO SAY. In-Reply-To: <199708221930.MAA17079@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote: > Here's some Friday humor. Politely, I want to say "I can top that". Here, this came from an Air Force site: >From [deleted] Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 16:18:11 EST From: [also deleted] Subject: fwd: Air Force Maintenance These are alleged to be some actual maintenance complaints submitted by US Air Force pilots and the replies from the maintenance crews: Problem: "Left inside main tire almost needs replacement." Solution: "Almost replaced left inside main tire." Problem: "Test flight OK, except autoland very rough." Solution: "Autoland not installed on this aircraft." Problem #1: "#2 Propeller seeping prop fluid." Solution #1: "#2 Propeller seepage normal." Problem #2: "#1, #3, and #4 propellers lack normal seepage." Problem: "The autopilot doesn't." Signed off: "IT DOES NOW." Problem: "Something loose in cockpit." Solution: "Something tightened in cockpit." Problem: "Evidence of hydraulic leak on right main landing gear." Solution: "Evidence removed." Problem: "DME volume unbelievably loud." Solution: "Volume set to more believable level." Problem: "Dead bugs on windshield." Solution: "Live bugs on order." Problem: "Autopilot in altitude hold mode produces a 200 fpm descent." Solution: "Cannot reproduce problem on ground." Problem: "IFF inoperative." Solution: "IFF always inoperative in OFF mode." Problem: "Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick." Solution: "That's what they're there for." Problem: "Number three engine missing." Solution: "Engine found on right wing after brief search." ------------------------------------------ SGT Zeno K. Gamble, U.S. Army, OSD (703)693-0566, Room 3E856 BRAC Alumnus / Pentagon Veteran Essayons Lifetime Member ------------------------------------------ ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 14:47:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04077 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04070 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18070; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 17:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199708222100.RAA18070@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: 101 THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR TO SAY. In-Reply-To: <199708221930.MAA17079@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> from Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group at "Aug 22, 97 12:29:53 pm" To: cschuber@uumail.gov.bc.ca Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 17:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 1. Uh-oh..... > > 2. Shit!! > > 3. What the hell!? ... There was a humorous article once that claimed that the first thing you must do when becoming a medical doctor (or engineering consultant) is to train yourself to automatically say "There!" with confidence when you screw something up: "(*spark* puff of smoke) There!" Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Aug 22 20:33:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18471 for chat-outgoing; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 20:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibmmail.COM (ibmmail.com [204.146.168.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18465; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 20:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 20:33:21 -0700 (PDT) From: archie@veronica.com Message-Id: <199708230333.UAA18465@hub.freebsd.org> Received: from [204.216.27.21] by ibmmail.COM (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 22 Aug 97 23:32:56 EDT To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just had a super orgasm and came all over. I cleaned it up with a pillow . From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 23 00:51:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA28451 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28446 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA07831; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Annelise Anderson To: Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 101 THINGS YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR TO SAY. In-Reply-To: <199708221930.MAA17079@passer.osg.gov.bc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote: > Here's some Friday humor. > > 11. Wow....that seemed fast..... I can't top "Live Bugs on Order" but I like the following NT 3.1 dlog.txt message. My local sysadmins like NT because "everyone has gotten used to the graphical interface", but they can't figure out how to make it possible for me to read my "share" on the NT machine; meanwhile what I can read is their configuration and log files. It seems they have mechanical as well as other problems. I find this rather courteous and charming: Backup Status The tape device reported an error on a request to write data to tape. Error reported: Write protected tape. Backup completed on 8/20/97 at 12:30:27 AM. Backed up 0 files in 0 directories. Processed 0 bytes in 1 second. -- Annelise From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 23 14:50:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16447 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 14:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16442 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 14:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id RAA26184; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id RAA17151; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:50:17 -0400 (EDT) To: Branson Matheson cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Plug in Aug 97 SunExpert In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:41:15 EDT." Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:50:17 -0400 Message-ID: <17149.872373017@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Branson Matheson wrote in message ID : > > FreeBSD recieved a HUGH plug in that issue! Title of the artice: > > A sucessor to SunOS Oh no. Does this mean we have to copy the security holes too? :-) > In my book.. that is a high rating indeed. Kudos to the ports guys as > well as they recieved quite a large plug for their effort and > concept!! Indeed it is. Congrats all round Any chance of the article mysteriously going online somewhere? Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 23 15:28:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA18066 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 15:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA18061 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 15:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id SAA00940; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 18:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with ESMTP id SAA27981; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 18:28:38 -0400 (EDT) To: Wes Peters cc: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Apple Newton MessagePad In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:38:56 MDT." <199708220538.XAA07669@obie.softweyr.ml.org> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 18:28:38 -0400 Message-ID: <27979.872375318@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wes Peters wrote in message ID <199708220538.XAA07669@obie.softweyr.ml.org>: > Marco Molteni writes: > The WinCE's as a group are pretty lame: although they have bigger > screens and a keyboard, most of them are not much more functional that > the Pilot, but cost nearly as much as a Newton. Most of them have a > PCMCIA/PCcard slot, but you can't run it on batteries, only when plugged > into the wall. What a crock. And beware the CE version of windows if you are trying to dial into a `normal' ISP that doesn't let WINS (137?) DNS queries (i.e. doesn't run SAMBA or something) ... apparently CE can only use WINS DNS queries. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Aug 23 17:31:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24211 for chat-outgoing; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nico.telstra.net (nico.telstra.net [139.130.204.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA24206 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by nico.telstra.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA07845; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:30:22 +1000 Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id KAA05560; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:00:19 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19970824100019.40411@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:00:19 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Wes Peters - Softweyr LLC Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Rumors of the death of Unix have been greatly exaggerated... References: <199708212212.QAA21565@xmission.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81e In-Reply-To: <199708212212.QAA21565@xmission.xmission.com>; from Wes Peters - Softweyr LLC on Thu, Aug 21, 1997 at 04:12:49PM -0600 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Aug 21, 1997 at 04:12:49PM -0600, Wes Peters - Softweyr LLC wrote: > This is the first line of an interesting article by Jeff Bliss of > _Computer Reseller News_. JOOI, how reliable a source do you consider CRN to be? > He summarizes the NT and UNIX marketplaces as follows: > > > Revenue UNIX NT > 1996 19B .8B > 1999/2000 37B 6.5B > > Whoa, wait a minute? I thought NT had already killed UNIX? Why is it > that last year UNIX outsold NT sytems by *24 times*? And, even given > the "explosive growth" projected for NT, in 2000 it will still sell > *one sixth" of the UNIX marketplace? Interesting figures. I've seen things like this before. I'd love to believe them, but I have numerous reservations: 1. CRN probably doesn't conduct extensive market research. 2. There could be a good deal of wishful thinking or manipulation attempts in the figures. 2. We don't know how old these figures are. They could be 2 or 3 years old, and have based on wishful thinking etc. then. Still, they're interesting. I wonder how distorted they could be. > Not to mention all the UNIX systems (our dearly beloved FreeBSD, Linux, > NetBSD, etc) that don't contribute money, but do contributed *seats* to > the UNIX world. 5 years ago, most superficial computer users thought that Microsoft was the best thing since sliced bread. Nowadays, I notice significant displeasure with Microsoft even in their own user base, even though NT is indubitably better than DOG. In addition, the desktop market is getting saturated, while other areas, notably telecom, are still growing. I don't see Microsoft getting a good foothold with Telcos, and things like the Mars landing and Deep Blue should also (if people only knew) be good advertisments for UNIX. > NT, I sneer at thee! ;^) The German equivalent of "say no to " is ", nein danke"--No Thanks. With that background, and abbreviated: Microsoft, NT. Greg