From owner-freebsd-config Fri Feb 14 15:32:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10823 for config-outgoing; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10800; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA00654; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:02:18 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199702142332.KAA00654@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: undocumented kernel options... In-Reply-To: from Philippe Regnauld at "Feb 14, 97 12:36:55 pm" To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:02:17 +1030 (CST) Cc: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov, config@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Philippe Regnauld stands accused of saying: > > Could be a port. It *would* be nice to see it there with > 'Apache' configuration and 'Samba'. XFree does have an X > configuration tool now :-) The drive behind the stuff that led to the (currently silent) freebsd-config list was the creation of an open, metadata-driven configuration framework, that would allow one to encompass this sort of thing withouit having to write the glue again and again and again... > Good point. Using libdialog should be possible -- Michael, to what > point is your parser dependant on Tk ? The parser is not at all, but the parser is trivial (less than 200 lines including comments and the like). The real work is in the user interface which builds itself based on the metadata provided. > -[ Philippe Regnauld / Systems Administrator / regnauld@prosa.dk ]- -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Sat Feb 15 04:15:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA18752 for config-outgoing; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18723 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA10317 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:15:40 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.6.12) with UUCP id NAA28909 for config@freebsd.org; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:14:43 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.5/keltia-uucp-2.9) id KAA26012; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:48:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19970215104821.DX14992@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:48:21 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: undocumented kernel options... References: <199702142332.KAA00654@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.60,1-3,9 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2999 In-Reply-To: <199702142332.KAA00654@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>; from Michael Smith on Feb 15, 1997 10:02:17 +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Michael Smith: > The parser is not at all, but the parser is trivial (less than 200 > lines including comments and the like). The real work is in the user > interface which builds itself based on the metadata provided. Has anyone got a look at Dotfile ? It is a Tcl:Tk based configuration tool for several programs like fvwm, tcsh and emacs. I've been meaning to have a look for a long time but never got around to do it... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #39: Sun Feb 2 22:12:44 CET 1997 From owner-freebsd-config Sat Feb 15 14:26:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16819 for config-outgoing; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from lightside.com (hamby1.lightside.net [207.67.176.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA16811 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:26:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by lightside.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA05098; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:23:01 -0800 Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 14:23:01 -0800 From: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Message-Id: <199702152223.OAA05098@lightside.com> To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC? Cc: patrick@xinside.com, config@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: tqN/HO5oWth0Kl5iZ8q74w== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id OAA16813 Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan Hubbard writes: > > A lot of people here will disagree with me, perhaps, but when I look at > > the bootup screen for Solaris2, I see a finish built for users who don't > > know or care about hardware details etc (makes FreeBSD and others look > > like "hacks"). If I could, I'd advocate that the free unixes have a > > similar quiet boot as default and a "verbose" option to see all the junk > > For those of us who've never seen a Solaris2 machine boot up, could > you perhaps tell us (though config@freebsd.org would be perhaps a > better mailing list on which to do it) what it looks like and what > about it you found so attractive? Nothing magical about the Solaris boot sequence, it simply redirects the hardware probing messages to syslogd by default. Imagine the FreeBSD boot sequence with the white (kernel) text removed, and the gray (rc script) text remaining. If you want to enable the messages, you can boot with "-v". BTW, SunOS behaves the same as FreeBSD here, and so does Linux. The BSD behavior has an advantage if you are bringing up new hardware, although if you know about "-v", they're both the same. And I agree that the Solaris method looks "cleaner" once you have a properly configured system and don't need the messages anymore. But I have a hard time seeing it as "more professional", just "different". I would argue that the average SPARC user doesn't know or care about hardware details, but considering the several complaints to this list about the severe difficulty in bringing Solaris/x86 up, I would argue that a PC user MUST know and care about hardware details in order to bring UNIX up, period. Unless you're buying a turnkey FreeBSD system, this info WILL be beneficial to you at some point. Therefore, I'd recommend NOT to change FreeBSD because if you do, you'll have to document "-v" and you'll see a LOT more mailing list questions when people don't know whether or not their hardware got probed. While we're on the topic, that reminds me of the Sun Netra boot sequence, which plays .AU files of a woman saying "The Netra is now being configured" and "The Netra is now online," or something to that effect, while the rc scripts are running. Now anything that makes UNIX seem like the computer from Star Trek gets a vote in my book! Does anyone want to volunteer for the FreeBSD voiceovers? ;) One final comment about Solaris: Despite the rest of the boot sequence, the CDE login screen really DOES look professional, and so does the "Welcome to Solaris" screen in eight languages with the big Solaris logo that shows up while CDE is logging you in, (the same logo appears if you start OpenWindows outside of CDE). Out of curiosity, what did XInside use for this logo screen in the FreeBSD port of CDE? If it's a generic CDE logo, I suggestyou find some artist to create a custom full-screen FreeBSD logo for them to bundle into the next version of CDE. Now _that_ would be cool! > There is *nothing* about the current FreeBSD installation which is > frozen in stone, and frankly I never expected it to last 2+ years > looking just like it does now - I figured we'd have a totally > different installation by now. Too many fires, too few hours in the > day I guess. :-) I think the original author was complaining about the boot sequence, not the installation program. If you want FreeBSD to look more "professional", you can do any combination of the following: 1) VGA splash screen at boot, with clearly-visible instructions to bypass it (and see the regular hardware probe messages printing underneath). 2) X-based installation program, including a fall-back text version for non-VGA users and a menu-based XFree86 setup program (some Linux distributions are already doing this, right?) 3) Customized FreeBSD startup logo during XFree86 and CDE logins. 4) Audio files to play while FreeBSD is booting or shutting down: "FreeBSD is now booting" "FreeBSD is ready to serve you" "I am completely operational and all my circuits are functioning perfectly" "I'm sorry Jordan I'm afraid I can't do that".. :) If you're going to work on something, do one of those four things, but don't worry about surpressing the hardware probe messages. -- Jake From owner-freebsd-config Sat Feb 15 16:37:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA29148 for config-outgoing; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:37:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29143 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 16:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA03052; Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:02:02 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199702160032.LAA03052@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC? In-Reply-To: <199702152223.OAA05098@lightside.com> from Jake Hamby at "Feb 15, 97 02:23:01 pm" To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:02:01 +1030 (CST) Cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com, patrick@xinside.com, config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > system and don't need the messages anymore. But I have a hard time seeing > it as "more professional", just "different". I think Darren's call was "more suitable for stupid users". > 1) VGA splash screen at boot, with clearly-visible instructions to bypass it > (and see the regular hardware probe messages printing underneath). That's actually the #1 sticking point at the moment wrt. the VGA splash; there's no practical way to guarantee that any hotkey will let you switch, as device probes run with interrupts turned off. To be able to switch at all would require adding a 'between-device-probes' hook in various places, which is likely to be an unpopular idea. > 2) X-based installation program, including a fall-back text version for > non-VGA users and a menu-based XFree86 setup program (some Linux > distributions are already doing this, right?) The current installer is actually pretty good; I can't see a great deal that an X-based version would win you. I recently had to train a completely ignorant RF technician in the installation of FreeBSD, X and our software. With the whole process documented in step-by-step drool-proof form it took about 10 pages or so of instructions, and one dry run to get it right. Half or more of the documentation is background or details on cusomising the system once it's installed to suit our software. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[