From owner-freebsd-config Mon Apr 28 17:50:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11755 for config-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11745 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA16279; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:09:36 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704280739.RAA16279@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: /etc/netstart bogons.. In-Reply-To: from Daniel O'Callaghan at "Apr 26, 97 04:48:04 pm" To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:09:36 +0930 (CST) Cc: config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Daniel O'Callaghan stands accused of saying: > > I had a brief look at it yesterday, but it was a public holiday and I > tried to do as little work as possible. The rc.conf looks fine, sort of > like sysconfig without the comments. Eep! Seeing as it has no comments yet; Jordan, how about some structure in it too? > As for a fancy tool for editing rc.conf (for those who are vi-impaired), > what about the visual userconfig code in the kernel. It looks like a > possible starting point, since it has exploding sections and could even > have help pages available. Yuck! Yuck! Yuck! > The alternatives are libdialog and something > completely different. Jordan has grumbled about libdialog in the past, > and I don't see his opinion changing in a hurry. libdialog reeks. (note that in its incarnation as dialog(1) it's actually very helpful 8) Seriously, userconfig is for-a-purpose code designed to run in a _very_ sparse environment. If you have an old sysconfig file kicking around, grab the file ftp://gsoft.com.au/pub/confserv/conf.tar.gz and have a bit of a play (yes, it's messy, it was a POC for a precursor to the romeo-and-juliet model). That comes a lot closer to the abstracted client/server model, and it would be feasible to write a fairly straightforward client for that using c++ and turbovision in a few days - if I spoke c++, which I don't. Jordan, how's the Tcl bindings for TV going? > Danny -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Mon Apr 28 17:50:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11773 for config-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA11767 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA16178 for config@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:44:21 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704280714.QAA16178@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Startup userconfig parsing To: config@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 16:44:21 +0930 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan, other config-interested people. I've been re-studying userconfig(), and a number of things have come to light : - Visual and commandline mode don't tread on each others' toes. You should be able to swap between the two with impunity. In particular, changes made in commandline mode should be reflected in visual mode just fine. If this isn't true, please give me a sequence that demonstrates it not working and I'll fix it asap. - It should be quite straightforward to load a text file with the bootstrap eg. after the symbols and have it parsed by the commandline parser at kernel startup. Regenerating this information at a later stage would be easy, as unlike with the dset method, you know everything that's changed from the compile-time config. The latter actually leads me around to something I proposed a while back. Now that Bruce has made it feasible with the bootstrap readfile() code, I'd like to reincarnate the 'kernel rc file(s)' concept. The plan goes something like this : Put all our stuff in /boot on the boot filesystem. If /boot/kernel.rc exists, it's loaded unconditionally. If /boot/kernel.rc. exists, load that too. If there's room in the bootloader after all this drama, it might be nice to have a couple of extra flags : -f Load additional kernel.rc file -F Load this rcfile, don't load kernel.rc. If the commandline supports it, perhaps allow multiple -fF instances. An alternative would be /boot/rc/default, , etc. Now, assuming that the space just after the kernel is available, I propose a header, something like : 0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, "rcfile 1 name" "line 1" "line ..." 0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, "rcfile 2 name" ... The idea here being that this may well not be the only sort of data we want to stuff in like this. Putting the filenames in is intended as fluff for debugging purposes. A suitable API for modules to extract this information can be devised. It shouldn't be too hard to upgrade this if/when the kernel side of the parameter registry happens. For userconfig stuff, entries would probably be plain userconfig commands prefixed appropriately, eg. : userconfig port ed0 0x300 Comments? And yes, I'll volunteering for asbestos duty 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Mon Apr 28 20:12:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA19549 for config-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA19538 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org [127.0.0.1] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0wM3KT-0000xN-00; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:11:45 -0600 To: Michael Smith Subject: Re: /etc/netstart bogons.. Cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan), config@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:09:36 +0930." <199704280739.RAA16279@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199704280739.RAA16279@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:11:44 -0600 From: Warner Losh Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199704280739.RAA16279@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Michael Smith writes: : That comes a lot closer to the abstracted client/server model, and it would : be feasible to write a fairly straightforward client for that using c++ : and turbovision in a few days - if I spoke c++, which I don't. : : Jordan, how's the Tcl bindings for TV going? I'll have to give turbovision a try. I'm looking for a good "gui" for the disk label editor that I'm hacking together. Warner From owner-freebsd-config Mon Apr 28 22:04:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA25282 for config-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25277 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA04999; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:04:17 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Smith cc: danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan), config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/netstart bogons.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:09:36 +0930." <199704280739.RAA16279@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:04:16 -0700 Message-ID: <4997.862290256@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Eep! Seeing as it has no comments yet; Jordan, how about some structure > in it too? Pardon? Can you be more explicit? There are both comments and structure in this file. :) > That comes a lot closer to the abstracted client/server model, and it would > be feasible to write a fairly straightforward client for that using c++ > and turbovision in a few days - if I spoke c++, which I don't. > > Jordan, how's the Tcl bindings for TV going? I hope to have something for you guys by next week. This week is already looking a little full. :( Jordan From owner-freebsd-config Mon Apr 28 22:24:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA25967 for config-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25962 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA19876; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:54:20 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704290524.OAA19876@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: /etc/netstart bogons.. In-Reply-To: <4997.862290256@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Apr 28, 97 10:04:16 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:54:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, danny@panda.hilink.com.au, config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > Eep! Seeing as it has no comments yet; Jordan, how about some structure > > in it too? > > Pardon? Can you be more explicit? There are both comments and > structure in this file. :) Oh, OK. I've been busy trying to work out how best to do the 'kernel config script' thing, so I haven't actually looked at it properly. MMC. > > Jordan, how's the Tcl bindings for TV going? > > I hope to have something for you guys by next week. This week > is already looking a little full. :( Next week?! Wow, talk about calling my bluff 8) Seriously, my workload is shifting from work-work to study-work for the next month or so, so a week here or there is nothing 8) > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Mon Apr 28 22:49:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA27314 for config-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27307 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA05319; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:49:01 -0700 (PDT) To: Warner Losh cc: Michael Smith , danny@panda.hilink.com.au (Daniel O'Callaghan), config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /etc/netstart bogons.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:11:44 MDT." Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:49:01 -0700 Message-ID: <5317.862292941@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'll have to give turbovision a try. I'm looking for a good "gui" for > the disk label editor that I'm hacking together. Make sure you get version 0.4 from the -current ports collection. Support for moused has been added, making it a truly drivable CUI (and once I figured out that moused "canonicalizes" your mouse to a MouseSystems type mouse, of all the bizarre choices, I was able to use it harmoniously with my X server :-). Jordan From owner-freebsd-config Tue Apr 29 02:31:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA07375 for config-outgoing; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07369 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id TAA29118; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:27:57 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:27:57 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199704290927.TAA29118@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: config@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Put all our stuff in /boot on the boot filesystem. If /boot/kernel.rc >exists, it's loaded unconditionally. If /boot/kernel.rc. It shouldn't be in a subdirectory. Putting it in the root directory allows simpler file systems and simpler fs support in the boot loader. The main config file belongs in the _root_ file system next to the kernel. Only configuration info for the boot loader belongs in the boot file system. >Now, assuming that the space just after the kernel is available, I >propose a header, something like : > >0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, >"rcfile 1 name" >"line 1" >"line ..." >0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, >"rcfile 2 name" >... Overengineered. >A suitable API for modules to extract this information can be devised. getc(). >For userconfig stuff, entries would probably be plain userconfig commands >prefixed appropriately, eg. : > >userconfig port ed0 0x300 If the commands are unique then you don't need keys to say which subsystem should parse them. Bruce From owner-freebsd-config Tue Apr 29 02:44:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA07715 for config-outgoing; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07710 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 02:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA21477; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:14:06 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704290944.TAA21477@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-Reply-To: <199704290927.TAA29118@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Apr 29, 97 07:27:57 pm" To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:14:05 +0930 (CST) Cc: config@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > >Put all our stuff in /boot on the boot filesystem. If /boot/kernel.rc > >exists, it's loaded unconditionally. If /boot/kernel.rc. > > It shouldn't be in a subdirectory. Putting it in the root directory > allows simpler file systems and simpler fs support in the boot loader. Is the bootloader currently stressed by the current filesystem? I specifically asked about subdirectories when you first mentioned the readfile() support, and you scoffed at the intimation that they might be a problem. > The main config file belongs in the _root_ file system next to the kernel. > Only configuration info for the boot loader belongs in the boot file > system. I appreciate the distinction. > >Now, assuming that the space just after the kernel is available, I > >propose a header, something like : > > > >0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, > >"rcfile 1 name" > >"line 1" > >"line ..." > >0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, > >"rcfile 2 name" > >... > > Overengineered. Perhaps. Perhaps not. What if I want to throw in, say, the splash screen image here. Am I still overengineering? How about the initial state for the kernel's registry? I feel that some rudimentary structure is required. Magic-numbering with length values is about as simple as I can come up with. > >A suitable API for modules to extract this information can be devised. > > getc(). Not useful, as the information is consumer-driven and it's not at all clear who the consumer(s) are likely to be. > >For userconfig stuff, entries would probably be plain userconfig commands > >prefixed appropriately, eg. : > > > >userconfig port ed0 0x300 > > If the commands are unique then you don't need keys to say which subsystem > should parse them. Perhaps, but it's much easier to say : cp = NULL; while ((cp = kern_getnextenv("userconfig", cp))) { process_var(cp); } than anything else that you can do from the consumer's side without tagging the data. I specifically don't want to require that the "environment"-management code know all of the possible consumers of a a variable. Some may provide state, some may be commands; they should be transparent to the management code. The only alternative that I can think of would involve a linker set for command handlers, and that loses for LKMs. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Tue Apr 29 03:33:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA09564 for config-outgoing; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 03:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA09559 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 03:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id DAA03474 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 03:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id UAA31045; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:26:08 +1000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:26:08 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199704291026.UAA31045@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing Cc: config@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Is the bootloader currently stressed by the current filesystem? I >specifically asked about subdirectories when you first mentioned the >readfile() support, and you scoffed at the intimation that they might >be a problem. It's squeezed by the 7.5K limit. >> >0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, >> >"rcfile 1 name" >> >> Overengineered. > >Perhaps. Perhaps not. What if I want to throw in, say, the splash screen >image here. Am I still overengineering? How about the initial state >for the kernel's registry? The count would be very painful to maintain using ed(1) when you're fixing a failed config after screwing up the driver for the device containing /usr... The splash screen could be just another file to load. It could be handled by a bootstrap load command and a bootstrap or kernelconfig splash command. >I specifically don't want to require that the "environment"-management >code know all of the possible consumers of a a variable. Some may >provide state, some may be commands; they should be transparent to the >management code. ed(1) certainly won't know about what the commands mean :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-config Tue Apr 29 20:39:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA00308 for config-outgoing; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00302 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA04891 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA25337; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:05:42 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704300335.NAA25337@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-Reply-To: <199704291026.UAA31045@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Apr 29, 97 08:26:08 pm" To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:05:41 +0930 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > >Is the bootloader currently stressed by the current filesystem? I > >specifically asked about subdirectories when you first mentioned the > >readfile() support, and you scoffed at the intimation that they might > >be a problem. > > It's squeezed by the 7.5K limit. Any reason this can't be 8.5K these days? Who boots from 15spt media anymore? > >> >0xmagicnumber, 0xlength, > >> >"rcfile 1 name" > >> > >> Overengineered. > > > >Perhaps. Perhaps not. What if I want to throw in, say, the splash screen > >image here. Am I still overengineering? How about the initial state > >for the kernel's registry? > > The count would be very painful to maintain using ed(1) when you're fixing > a failed config after screwing up the driver for the device containing > /usr... The splash screen could be just another file to load. It could > be handled by a bootstrap load command and a bootstrap or kernelconfig > splash command. I think you are misunderstanding what I am suggesting. The file(s) to load can be specified in any fashion; if you want to put the instructions as to what to load in a file itself, that's fine. The structure (magic numbers etc.) are generated by the bootstrap as it loads the file(s) into memory. Think of it as a really stupid ramdisk filesystem being created by the bootstrap for use by the kernel. > ed(1) certainly won't know about what the commands mean :-). Huh? Sorry, I missed that one altogether. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Tue Apr 29 23:38:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA09550 for config-outgoing; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09455 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id QAA08781; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:33:17 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:33:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199704300633.QAA08781@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing Cc: config@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> It's squeezed by the 7.5K limit. > >Any reason this can't be 8.5K these days? Who boots from 15spt media >anymore? Yes, only 8K is reserved for the boot blocks, and 15spt media is not uncommon. >I think you are misunderstanding what I am suggesting. The file(s) to >load can be specified in any fashion; if you want to put the >instructions as to what to load in a file itself, that's fine. The It's overengineerd, not fine. >> ed(1) certainly won't know about what the commands mean :-). > >Huh? Sorry, I missed that one altogether. Config files are prepared with a text editor. Bruce From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 00:37:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA12015 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 00:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12010 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 00:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id RAA27393; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:07:38 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704300737.RAA27393@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-Reply-To: <199704300633.QAA08781@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Apr 30, 97 04:33:17 pm" To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:07:38 +0930 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > >> It's squeezed by the 7.5K limit. > > > >Any reason this can't be 8.5K these days? Who boots from 15spt media > >anymore? > > Yes, only 8K is reserved for the boot blocks, and 15spt media is not > uncommon. Hmm. Full-circle back to the three-stage boot I guess. > >I think you are misunderstanding what I am suggesting. The file(s) to > >load can be specified in any fashion; if you want to put the > >instructions as to what to load in a file itself, that's fine. The > > It's overengineerd, not fine. At this point, I'm inclined to seriously question whether you would consider anything other than a rock to be appropriately engineered. How would you go about "rightsizing" the proposal then? Consider : it is desired to be able to access arbitrary, user-specified configuration data from a data entity other than the kernel, for use in the kernel prior to the availability of filesystem or network services. The only accessible storage is memory. The only way to get stuff into memory is to have something before the kernel shove it there. The only thing that runs before the kernel is the bootloader, ergo the bootloader has to get the information there. Now, how do we know what it is? We put some identifying information in there. How do we know where to find things? We use a size value to tell us where the next one is. This isn't "overengineered". Writing a ramdisk filesystem engine is "overengineered". Saying "we can't do this because it's more featureful than what we currently have" is not helpful. Without explaining your criteria or objections, "overengineered" is quite insulting. > >> ed(1) certainly won't know about what the commands mean :-). > > > >Huh? Sorry, I missed that one altogether. > > Config files are prepared with a text editor. Not necessarily. And at any rate, the entity editing the data is expected to perform the interpretation. I still don't understand how ed is meant, one way or another, to have anything to do with arbitrary data intended for consumption by the kernel. wrt. your comment on kernelname; MHO (probably overengineered again) suggests that the bootinfo should perhaps be located somewhere sane and preserved rather than having to copy it around. "sane" is a difficult question. It'd be good to have the area created by the bootloader preserved as part of the kernel's space, at least until the information could be copied into a malloced area. Any idea if this is even vaguely feasible? The kernel virtual allocation stuff at in cpu_startup() doesn't look like it understands being told where the physical allocation should go. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 01:42:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA16228 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 01:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16223 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 01:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id SAA13095; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:37:30 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:37:30 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199704300837.SAA13095@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing Cc: config@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Yes, only 8K is reserved for the boot blocks, and 15spt media is not >> uncommon. > >Hmm. Full-circle back to the three-stage boot I guess. Nope. That would be overengineered. >At this point, I'm inclined to seriously question whether you would >consider anything other than a rock to be appropriately engineered. `cat' with no options was fine :-). >How would you go about "rightsizing" the proposal then? Consider : it is >desired to be able to access arbitrary, user-specified configuration data >from a data entity other than the kernel, for use in the kernel prior to >the availability of filesystem or network services. No, it's desired to have no user-specified configuration data then. Userconfig etc. are "temporary" kludges to get around h/w and BIOS braindamage. >> Config files are prepared with a text editor. > >Not necessarily. And at any rate, the entity editing the data is Necessarily, by definition :-). >expected to perform the interpretation. I still don't understand how >ed is meant, one way or another, to have anything to do with arbitrary >data intended for consumption by the kernel. boot: -s ... # mount / # ed /boot.config # fix up booting problems # ed /etc/fstab # fix up mounting problems ... >"sane" is a difficult question. It'd be good to have the area created >by the bootloader preserved as part of the kernel's space, at least until >the information could be copied into a malloced area. Page 0 is always preserved, and there's 2.5K or 3.5K to spare in it. This is a nice limit for a config file size (stops you from overengineering it :-) but is too small for splash screens. It would probably be simplest for the bootstrap to put things below 640K and delay use of some pages below 640K. Bruce From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 01:56:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA16769 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 01:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA16764 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 01:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id SAA27950; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:26:13 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704300856.SAA27950@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-Reply-To: <199704300837.SAA13095@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from Bruce Evans at "Apr 30, 97 06:37:30 pm" To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:26:13 +0930 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > > >Hmm. Full-circle back to the three-stage boot I guess. > > Nope. That would be overengineered. Weeping not being my strong point, I feel close to real violence here 8) > >At this point, I'm inclined to seriously question whether you would > >consider anything other than a rock to be appropriately engineered. > > `cat' with no options was fine :-). Gack. How do you live with yourself these days? > No, it's desired to have no user-specified configuration data then. > Userconfig etc. are "temporary" kludges to get around h/w and BIOS > braindamage. Ah, I see. Well, let's apply the sophistry a little further, and suggest that in order to get around some more of this braindamage that some more extensive and organised kludging is required. > >expected to perform the interpretation. I still don't understand how > >ed is meant, one way or another, to have anything to do with arbitrary > >data intended for consumption by the kernel. > > boot: -s > ... > # mount / > # ed /boot.config # fix up booting problems > # ed /etc/fstab # fix up mounting problems > ... Yeeees. And how, in the above scenario, is 'ed' supposed to be "interpreting" the configuration information? To me it looks like it's 'ed'iting it, under the control of a user, who is responsible for interpreting it. > Page 0 is always preserved, and there's 2.5K or 3.5K to spare in it. This > is a nice limit for a config file size (stops you from overengineering it > :-) but is too small for splash screens. It would probably be simplest > for the bootstrap to put things below 640K and delay use of some pages > below 640K. This is what I want to do; I have been trying to work out how to arrange for the delayed use. It is not possible to mandate a fixed location unfortunately; both 'very low' and 'very high' are liable to occupation if eg. booting under DOS, so the passing of an address and size to the kernel is necessary. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 03:02:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA19374 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA19369 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA26031; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:02:36 -0700 (PDT) To: Bruce Evans cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:37:30 +1000." <199704300837.SAA13095@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:02:36 -0700 Message-ID: <26029.862394556@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, it's desired to have no user-specified configuration data then. > Userconfig etc. are "temporary" kludges to get around h/w and BIOS > braindamage. Feh. Why don't we just put a TCL interpreter into the kernel and have done with this? /boot.tcl. Problem solved at a stroke. You're entirely welcome, thanks. Jordan From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 03:09:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA19642 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA19636 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA28293; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:39:13 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704301009.TAA28293@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-Reply-To: <26029.862394556@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Apr 30, 97 03:02:36 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:39:13 +0930 (CST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > No, it's desired to have no user-specified configuration data then. > > Userconfig etc. are "temporary" kludges to get around h/w and BIOS > > braindamage. > > Feh. Why don't we just put a TCL interpreter into the kernel and have > done with this? /boot.tcl. Problem solved at a stroke. You're > entirely welcome, thanks. I was actually looking at a couple of slightly smaller interpreters, based purely on the issue that tcl wants too many system services. I could handle a small Forth or something like that. You were tinkering with a Forth interpreter a while back Jordan; what happened to it? How about the Forth spoken by the OpenBoot PROMs? Scoff not, I am _serious_. There are many in-kernel things for which this could be useful. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 03:43:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA20921 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA20916 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) id UAA16717; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:32:24 +1000 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:32:24 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199704301032.UAA16717@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing Cc: config@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> No, it's desired to have no user-specified configuration data then. >> Userconfig etc. are "temporary" kludges to get around h/w and BIOS >> braindamage. > >Feh. Why don't we just put a TCL interpreter into the kernel and have >done with this? /boot.tcl. Problem solved at a stroke. You're >entirely welcome, thanks. not a bad idea, except of course you mean a config interpreter ;-). The config parser in config(8) is about the same size as the kernel userconfig. Bruce From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 03:53:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA21223 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21217 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA26870; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:53:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Smith cc: bde@zeta.org.au, config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:39:13 +0930." <199704301009.TAA28293@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 03:53:31 -0700 Message-ID: <26868.862397611@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was actually looking at a couple of slightly smaller interpreters, > based purely on the issue that tcl wants too many system services. I Yes, that it most unfortunately does. :( Last time Poul-Henning was making semi-serious noises about this, I looked into it quickly and then looked away again just as quickly. The entire file I/O system would need to be hacked off with a knife and reimplimented in a much more kernel-centric context, for one thing, and we don't even want to talk about the process control. :) > You were tinkering with a Forth interpreter a while back Jordan; what > happened to it? How about the Forth spoken by the OpenBoot PROMs? OK, forth is actually a really good candidate for this given its size, highly stand-alone nature and the extremely trivial I/O demands of KEY, ?TERMINAL and EMIT. :) [or would we add classic forth block disk I/O too? :-)] The problem likes not with forth, but with its available public implementations: They all suck, in one crucial way or another. :-( In the x86 forth arena you have a highly confusing array of options, most very DOS specific and what you'd wind up with would still be a non-portable kernel bootstrap mechanism (swell - just what I wanted to do, write an ALPHA forth next. NOT. :-), so we can probably write them off for right now, despite some compelling speed advantages (but hey - this ain't for racing, right? It's for getting to the race track :-). In the C forth arena, you have: pfe forth Alan Pratt's C-forth. Mitch Bradley's C-forth. TILE forth. ATLAST pfe forth I don't really have an opinion on yet, having played with it very little (it's in ports/lang/forth). My initial impression is that it's a little on the chunky side. Perhaps to be avoided for kernel embeding. Alan Pratt's original forth is a mess. To be avoided, period. Mitch Bradley's C forth is actually pretty good, but it's also a commercial product and I don't know what his feelings towards it are. He gave me redistribution permission once when I wanted to port it to the pc532, turning it into something ROMable, and it didn't seem like he was that worried about it (and that was *years* ago - he probably cares even less, now :). Oh yeah, I didn't actually end up using it for the forth ROM either - a friend and I got carried away over a weekend and simply wrote a FIG implementation from scratch in NS32K assembly. God, what an instruction set - it was actually FUN to write assembly for that machine. :-) Anyway, moving right along... TILE forth is definitely too huge (and kind of, well, "strange" about some things :). I don't think it would be good for a boot forth. And finally, the one I was actually playing with recently, is "atlast" Atlast (by John Walker of AutoCAD fame) is actually very small, very easy to embed into C (in fact, that was its purpose) and very easy to add new words (in C) to. The bad news is that it's not like any other "forth" you've ever used and can probably be more correctly called a "mini forth", almost enough to bootstrap in all the fancy words you're used to from FIG forth or Forth83 but not quite in all respects. I finally gave up on atlast as not a "real enough" implementation of forth for a complete sysinstall type solution, but perhaps it's enough for bootstrap purposes. I dropped a copy of atlast 1.0 into my home directory on freefall. Otherwise, we could ask Mitch for his forth. I think that'd be the best "full forth" solution, if we even want to go that route. Jordan From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 04:45:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA22526 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA22520 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id VAA28537; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:08:54 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704301138.VAA28537@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-Reply-To: <26868.862397611@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Apr 30, 97 03:53:31 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:08:53 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, bde@zeta.org.au, config@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > Yes, that it most unfortunately does. :( Last time Poul-Henning was > making semi-serious noises about this, I looked into it quickly and > then looked away again just as quickly. The entire file I/O system > would need to be hacked off with a knife and reimplimented in a much > more kernel-centric context, for one thing, and we don't even want to > talk about the process control. :) I went back to about Tcl 3 or 4, and even back then it was Way Too Big. > The problem likes not with forth, but with its available public > implementations: They all suck, in one crucial way or another. :-( I was afraid of that. 8( > them off for right now, despite some compelling speed advantages (but > hey - this ain't for racing, right? It's for getting to the race > track :-). Yup. Specifically, it's meant to provide a parser, and some simple from-userspace kernel scripting. > And finally, the one I was actually playing with recently, is > "atlast" Atlast (by John Walker of AutoCAD fame) is actually > very small, very easy to embed into C (in fact, that was its > purpose) and very easy to add new words (in C) to. All desirable attributes. n fact, in the first draft of the message I sent you, I had attached the first few paragraphs from the ATLAST README 8) I was also looking at the 'diesel' interpreter he did, which would probably be more Bruce's style 8) > I finally gave up on atlast as not a "real enough" implementation of > forth for a complete sysinstall type solution, but perhaps it's enough > for bootstrap purposes. It would need to be pruned somewhat, but it's certainly an option worth considering. > Otherwise, we could ask Mitch for his forth. I think that'd > be the best "full forth" solution, if we even want to go that > route. What sort of size are we talking about? > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-config Wed Apr 30 09:16:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA04036 for config-outgoing; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04030 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27560; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:16:42 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Smith cc: bde@zeta.org.au, config@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Startup userconfig parsing In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:08:53 +0930." <199704301138.VAA28537@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:16:42 -0700 Message-ID: <27558.862417002@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-config@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Otherwise, we could ask Mitch for his forth. I think that'd > > be the best "full forth" solution, if we even want to go that > > route. > > What sort of size are we talking about? 49K. See freefall:~/cforth (I'm sure Mitch won't mind if we "keep it in the family" and I'll also contact him today and request explicit permission). Jordan