From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 03:01:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA29745 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:01:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29734 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:00:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@korin.warman.org.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA25779; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:03:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:02:59 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: Tom cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SMP: binding process to CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Tom wrote: > > On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > > Here's why I'm asking: I have one process which must be as near real-time > > as possible, and the second process processes it's output (which is > > Use rtprio on that process. If the priority is high enough, the process > will pretty much hog a CPU. This can be dangerous, as other processes > may not run at all, but on SMP there is at least one more CPU for other > processes to run on. Well, yes... But I'm pretty sure that the same process gets scheduled on BOTH processors (I don't know how actually the scheduler does it, though). So I think that if I bounce rtprio high enough, the process in question will monopolize BOTH CPU's. Am I right? Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 03:18:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00683 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00661; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@FreeBSD.org) From: Julian Elischer Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) id DAA25478; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:17:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:17:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712011117.DAA25478@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: SLICE/DEVFS code Cc: -@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A new version is in ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/scsi/slice.tar.gz (a symlink to slice2.tar.gz) differences: a sample /etc/rc showing changes (look for 'DEVFS') a sysctl variable kern.slicexclusive that defines how secure/safe the slice code is. 0-> you can shoot yourself in the foot (e.g. overwrite the disklabel of a disk on which there are active partitions. 1-> you can only read from devices that underlie open partitions. 2-> you cannot even do that. You need it set to 0 to be able to fsck the root partiton during bootup. It should then be set to 1. (see the sample rc) Code greatly cleaned up. common routines used for many things tha were done separatly before. Several memory leaks plugged. Self-hosting here. (on SCSI) Seems reliable. I haven't lost anything after multiple reboots and compiles. Boots to multi-user mode unassisted and runs reliably. The file ide.c hasn't been tested for a while and is a copy of wd.c with all un-needed stuff stripped. The IDE version WORKS but is not as tested, and I did see some complaints from the driver I hav enot tracked down. something to do with an unknown state. once again.. you must have the full names of devices in /etc/fstab mine looks like: devfs /dev devfs rw 1 1 /dev/sd1s1a / ufs rw 1 1 /dev/sd0s2d /usr ufs rw,async,noatime 1 2 /dev/sd1s1d /tmp ufs rw,async,noatime 1 2 /dev/sd1s1e /var ufs rw 1 3 /dev/sd2s1d /usr/ports ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd1s1g /usr/ports/distfiles ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd2s1e /usr/src ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd1s1f /usr/obj ufs rw,async,noatime 1 4 /dev/sd0s2a /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp ufs rw,async,noatime 1 1 /dev/sd0s2b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/sd1s1b none swap sw 0 0 /dev/sd2s1b none swap sw 0 0 proc /proc procfs rw 0 0 /dev/cd0a /cdrom cd9660 ro,noauto 0 0 /dev/sd0s1 /c msdos rw,noauto 0 0 To be able to boot back and forth, you need ds0s1a to be a link to sd0a (for example) otherwise the old kernel will reject the root entry in the fstab above, as it requires the sd0a minor numbers. the new code however requires the full NAME (sd0s1a) (it does things by name rather than by number) comments solicited. julian From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 03:28:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA01264 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:28:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA01258 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:28:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@korin.warman.org.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00601 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:30:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:30:47 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: SMP: Intel Dakota MB Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Does anyone have any experience with this motherboard? It's a dual PII, LX chipset, up to 1GB of RAM, on-board AHA2940 and Intel EtherExpress 10/100... My company ordered such a machine (with 512MB RAM), and I'd be very glad to play with it - I am to install FreeBSD on it :-). Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 09:39:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24738 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:39:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA24733 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:39:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xcZn7-0006xF-00; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:37:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:37:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMP: binding process to CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > Use rtprio on that process. If the priority is high enough, the process > > will pretty much hog a CPU. This can be dangerous, as other processes > > may not run at all, but on SMP there is at least one more CPU for other > > processes to run on. > > Well, yes... But I'm pretty sure that the same process gets scheduled on > BOTH processors (I don't know how actually the scheduler does it, > though). So I think that if I bounce rtprio high enough, the process in > question will monopolize BOTH CPU's. Am I right? Well, unless you have kernel threading working, and your process is multi-threaded, it will can only be running on one CPU at a time. > Andrzej Bialecki > > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- > abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } > Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." > Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. > ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- Tom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 11:32:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06160 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:32:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06082 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:32:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id OAA00376 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:26:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712011926.OAA00376@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: FYI: usage of new AIO calls To: current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:26:34 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For fun (and actually as a result of a comment by Justin Gibbs), I have put together a small program that could maybe be used for streaming tape drives using the new AIO code. Note that if you try this, it must be used only on current kernels on/after 19:00 GMT, Dec 1. This code is NOT pretty, but does show example usage. The code will likely have problems on SMP kernels (unless you are writing to a VCHR device.) -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #define NBUFS 16 #define BUFSZ (1024*64) struct aiocb *olist[NBUFS]; void *bufaddrs[NBUFS]; int activeflags[NBUFS]; int nactive; int eof; int main( int argc, char *argv[]) { int i; int fd1, fd2; off_t curptr; int nread; int rtval; int errval; if (argc != 2) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: fcp destfile"); exit(0); } fd1 = 0; fd2 = open(argv[1], O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0666); if (fd2 == -1) { perror(argv[1]); exit(1); } for(i=0;i 0)) { if ((eof && (nactive > 0)) || (nactive == NBUFS)) { for (i = 0; i < NBUFS; i++ ) { if (activeflags[i]) { errval = aio_suspend(&olist[i], 1, NULL); if (errval) { perror("aio_suspend"); exit(1); } break; } } } if (nactive > 0) { for (i = 0; i < NBUFS; i++) { if (activeflags[i] == 0) continue; errval = aio_error(olist[i]); if (errval) { if (errval == EINPROGRESS) continue; perror("aio_error1"); exit(1); } activeflags[i] = 0; --nactive; rtval = aio_return(olist[i]); if (rtval != olist[i]->aio_nbytes) { perror("buffer not fully written"); exit(1); } } } for (i = 0; ((eof == 0) && (nactive < NBUFS) && (i < NBUFS)); i++) { if (activeflags[i] == 0) { nread = read( fd1, bufaddrs[i], BUFSZ); if (nread == 0) { eof = 1; break; } if (nread == -1) { perror("read"); exit(1); } olist[i]->aio_offset = curptr; curptr += nread; olist[i]->aio_nbytes = nread; olist[i]->aio_fildes = fd2; olist[i]->aio_buf = bufaddrs[i]; errval = aio_write(olist[i]); activeflags[i] = 1; nactive++; if (errval) { perror("aio_write"); exit(1); } } } } } From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 12:17:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10912 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:17:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10905; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:17:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01433; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:17:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:17:41 -0500 (EST) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <199712012017.PAA01433@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: John Dyson Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <199712011841.KAA14631@freefall.freebsd.org> References: <199712011841.KAA14631@freefall.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > Fix a problem when creating a new kernel thread. In some cases, aio_read > or aio_write can return the pid of the new thread. This is due to the > way that return values from system calls being passed by side-effect in > the proc structure now. This commit fixes the problem with aio_read and > aio_write. This is an example of why said change was a mistake... -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 12:58:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16628 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:58:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16612 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:57:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA22425; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:57:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA12418; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:57:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:57:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199712012057.NAA12418@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712011926.OAA00376@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199712011926.OAA00376@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This code is NOT pretty, but does show example usage. The code will > likely have problems on SMP kernels (unless you are writing to a VCHR > device.) What is a VCHR device? You mention it quite a lot in the commit messages, but I have no idea what it is, unless it's like a acronym cross combining VHS and VCR. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 13:04:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17552 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:04:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17529 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:03:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id QAA00930; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:03:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712012103.QAA00930@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012057.NAA12418@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 1, 97 01:57:54 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:03:09 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams said: > > This code is NOT pretty, but does show example usage. The code will > > likely have problems on SMP kernels (unless you are writing to a VCHR > > device.) > > What is a VCHR device? You mention it quite a lot in the commit > messages, but I have no idea what it is, unless it's like a acronym > cross combining VHS and VCR. :) > RAW disk I/O is an example. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 13:09:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18090 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:09:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18083 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:09:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA22506; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:09:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA12464; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:09:10 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:09:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199712012109.OAA12464@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012103.QAA00930@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199712012057.NAA12418@mt.sri.com> <199712012103.QAA00930@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > What is a VCHR device? You mention it quite a lot in the commit > > messages, but I have no idea what it is, unless it's like a acronym > > cross combining VHS and VCR. :) > > RAW disk I/O is an example. But, what is it? Raw disk I/O is an example of many things unrelated to VCHR, so telling me an example of something still doesn't tell me what a VCHR device is. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 13:26:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA20342 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:26:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20296 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:26:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id QAA04181; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:25:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712012125.QAA04181@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012109.OAA12464@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 1, 97 02:09:10 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:25:20 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, nate@mt.sri.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams said: > > > What is a VCHR device? You mention it quite a lot in the commit > > > messages, but I have no idea what it is, unless it's like a acronym > > > cross combining VHS and VCR. :) > > > > RAW disk I/O is an example. > > But, what is it? Raw disk I/O is an example of many things unrelated to > VCHR, so telling me an example of something still doesn't tell me what a > VCHR device is. > I am surprised, do you really not know? The AIO/LIO code was primarily included to support optimized database operations, and I/O is often done to raw disks. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 13:30:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA20817 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20806 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:30:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA22672; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:29:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA12636; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:29:57 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:29:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199712012129.OAA12636@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012125.QAA04181@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199712012109.OAA12464@mt.sri.com> <199712012125.QAA04181@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > What is a VCHR device? You mention it quite a lot in the commit > > > > messages, but I have no idea what it is, unless it's like a acronym > > > > cross combining VHS and VCR. :) > > > > > > RAW disk I/O is an example. > > > > But, what is it? Raw disk I/O is an example of many things unrelated to > > VCHR, so telling me an example of something still doesn't tell me what a > > VCHR device is. > > I am surprised, do you really not know? I really don't know what VCHR is. I know what raw disk I/O is, but raw disk I/O is an example of many things, so I want to know precisely what VCHR is, not what are examples of it. Example, if you didn't know what Nate's new acronym 'DSM' was, and I said "floppy disks are an example of it", you still wouldn't know what it was. It could be a form-factor, a type of controller, or any number of things. Giving an example of something that is 'VCHR' doesn't explain what VCHR is. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 13:52:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23163 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:52:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23114 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id QAA05084; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:49:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712012149.QAA05084@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012129.OAA12636@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 1, 97 02:29:57 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:49:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, nate@mt.sri.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams said: > > > > > What is a VCHR device? You mention it quite a lot in the commit > > > > > messages, but I have no idea what it is, unless it's like a acronym > > > > > cross combining VHS and VCR. :) > > > > > > > > RAW disk I/O is an example. > > > > > > But, what is it? Raw disk I/O is an example of many things unrelated to > > > VCHR, so telling me an example of something still doesn't tell me what a > > > VCHR device is. > > > > I am surprised, do you really not know? > > I really don't know what VCHR is. I know what raw disk I/O is, but raw > disk I/O is an example of many things, so I want to know precisely what > VCHR is, not what are examples of it. > > Example, if you didn't know what Nate's new acronym 'DSM' was, and I > said "floppy disks are an example of it", you still wouldn't know what > it was. It could be a form-factor, a type of controller, or any number > of things. Giving an example of something that is 'VCHR' doesn't > explain what VCHR is. > > Okay, well it wasn't invented by me. Take a look at the headers in /sys/sys and the VFS code in /sys/kern. VCHR files are character devices that you would see the 'c' in the first column for 'ls -l'. VCHR takes alot less to type than 'character devices or files', and alot less ambiguous. It is of course, possible to have a VCHR device without a directory entry for it... If I use the term character devices, or character files, I can imagine significant ambiguity or confusion. (For me, the descriptive terms require significant interpretation of associated text to figure out exactly what is being said.) It is easier and more accurate to use the specific internal terminology. If you know what the AIO/LIO functions are for, and have software that can use them, it is pretty clear how useful they are. (Note that I didn't realize how useful they are until about a year ago, so if you don't know -- don't feel bad.) They are very very important for database performance, and are one way to help a system work well in that application. The code that I posted earlier is an example that can be used to write in a multiply buffered fashion to a tape backup device (another VCHR device.) This mechanism allows for true multiple buffered I/O for all file descriptors without the bogus historical hacks used on earlier U**X clone implementations. Many commercial UNIX's have had this for a while. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 13:52:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23179 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:52:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23115; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:51:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21554; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:51:48 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id PAA12719; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:51:17 -0600 Message-ID: <19971201155116.18825@right.PCS> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:51:16 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: Garrett Wollman Cc: John Dyson , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c References: <199712011841.KAA14631@freefall.freebsd.org> <199712012017.PAA01433@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199712012017.PAA01433@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>; from Garrett Wollman on Dec 12, 1997 at 03:17:41PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Dec 12, 1997 at 03:17:41PM -0500, Garrett Wollman wrote: > < said: > > > Fix a problem when creating a new kernel thread. In some cases, aio_read > > or aio_write can return the pid of the new thread. This is due to the > > way that return values from system calls being passed by side-effect in > > the proc structure now. This commit fixes the problem with aio_read and > > aio_write. > > This is an example of why said change was a mistake... I never did get around to asking, so I guess this might be a good time as any; why were the retvals moved into the proc structure in the first place? I assume for performance reasons, but I don't recall seeing any discussion about it on the lists. -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 13:54:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23400 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23394 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:54:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA22845; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:54:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA12784; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:54:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:54:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199712012154.OAA12784@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012149.QAA05084@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199712012129.OAA12636@mt.sri.com> <199712012149.QAA05084@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote: > What is a VCHR device? John replied: > VCHR files are character devices that you would see the 'c' in the > first column for 'ls -l'. Ahh, character special devices. SEF also pointed this out to me right after I got this email. I know what those are, but I've never heard them distinguished as VCHR devices. I'm all better now, must have been too much Turkey. *grin* > If you know what the AIO/LIO functions are for, and have software that One more question. AIO == Asynchronous I/O, but LIO? Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 14:02:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24270 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:02:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24253 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:02:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id RAA07400; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:02:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712012202.RAA07400@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012154.OAA12784@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 1, 97 02:54:44 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:02:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, nate@mt.sri.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams said: > I wrote: > > What is a VCHR device? > > John replied: > > > VCHR files are character devices that you would see the 'c' in the > > first column for 'ls -l'. > > Ahh, character special devices. SEF also pointed this out to me right > after I got this email. I know what those are, but I've never heard > them distinguished as VCHR devices. > > I'm all better now, must have been too much Turkey. *grin* > > > If you know what the AIO/LIO functions are for, and have software that > > One more question. AIO == Asynchronous I/O, but LIO? > AIO == Asynchronous I/O. LIO == List (directed) I/O. LIO essentially allows for multiple AIO requests to be batched into a single system call. It is kind of like writev/readv, except you can intermix read and write system calls with LIO. With LIO, you can specify a signal to post when it is fully done. signanosleep(2) is especially useful in conjunction with LIO. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 14:14:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25272 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:14:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25264 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:14:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA22977; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:14:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA12892; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:14:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:14:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199712012214.PAA12892@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712012202.RAA07400@dyson.iquest.net> References: <199712012154.OAA12784@mt.sri.com> <199712012202.RAA07400@dyson.iquest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > One more question. AIO == Asynchronous I/O, but LIO? > > > AIO == Asynchronous I/O. > LIO == List (directed) I/O. > > LIO essentially allows for multiple AIO requests to be batched into > a single system call. It is kind of like writev/readv, except you > can intermix read and write system calls with LIO. With LIO, you can > specify a signal to post when it is fully done. signanosleep(2) is > especially useful in conjunction with LIO. Cool, but it sounds pretty complicated to keep straight. I suppose it's a bit more effecient than multiple AIO calls, but I'd be the type that would do multiple calls at first just because my head would get all screwed up if I tried making LIO effecient. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 14:39:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27039 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27014 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:39:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id XAA09075 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:39:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA11606; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:37:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971201233719.25782@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:37:19 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199712011926.OAA00376@dyson.iquest.net> <199712012057.NAA12418@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <199712012057.NAA12418@mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Mon, Dec 01, 1997 at 01:57:54PM -0700 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Nate Williams wrote: > What is a VCHR device? A `raw', or `character' (misnomer -- you can only write in blocks to it if it's a disk :) device. John is too much tied to the VM code to forget that there are also other names for it. ;-) VCHR is actually the member of an enum in , the kernel constant used for a vnode of type S_IFCHR. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 14:47:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28031 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from room101.sysc.com (qmailr@richmojm2.student.rose-hulman.edu [137.112.206.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA28001 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:46:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jayrich@room101.sysc.com) Received: (qmail 818 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Dec 1997 22:46:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:46:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Jay M. Richmond" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: stable patched for bus mastering Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I've got the follow error on my -stable system that was recently (and finally patched successfully for bus mastering, or so I thought): I get the following kernel probe messages on boot up: sff80380 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 sff8038: warning, ide0:1 not configured for DMA? sff8038: warning, ide1:1 not configured for DMA? Sorry for the double post and the post to -current, but apparently these are -current drivers at the heart. What does this indicate? Do I need to change something in my BIOS or hardware configuration? Thanks for your time, Jay From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 15:55:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04778 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:55:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04768 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:55:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA11311; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712012355.PAA11311@kithrup.com> To: jlemon@americantv.com Reply-To: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971201155116.18825.kithrup.freebsd.current@right.PCS> References: <199712012017.PAA01433@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>; from Garrett Wollman on Dec 12, 1997 at 03:17:41PM -0500 Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <19971201155116.18825.kithrup.freebsd.current@right.PCS> you write: >> This is an example of why said change was a mistake... >I never did get around to asking, so I guess this might be a good time as >any; why were the retvals moved into the proc structure in the first place? >I assume for performance reasons, but I don't recall seeing any discussion >about it on the lists. When I saw the commit message by PHK, I replied, to him and to cvs-all@freebsd.org (which is apparently not archived, so I can't get the exact date). I questioned the change, and said I "strongly objected" to it. I got neither acknowledgment nor response, from phk or anyone else. I saw no "Reviewed by" in the commit message, nor anything else to indicate that anyone else had seen the changes or approved of them. I disapprove of them for a variety of reasons -- they're overly intrusive, introduce too much incompatibility for no real gain, needlessly change the proc structure, don't allow for future system calls that might need to return more than two words, and make some of the stuff done in the computability libraries harder. About the only thing they did, other than causing a need to recompile libkvm, ps, and possibly gdb, was to allow the return arguments to not be on trap()'s stack. I did not, and still don't, see any reason for that -- I happen to much prefer the *retval method to the old method of using u.u_ar0 and u.u_ar1. Yes, I'm just a bit bitter about my complaint having gone unheeded and ignored, and having great delight in saying, "Hey, I told you so!" :) Without a compelling reason for them, I would prefer to see PHK's changes backed out. Sorry :(. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 16:36:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07603 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:36:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07586 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:36:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kingson@excite.com) Received: from excite.com (batik [204.62.245.185]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25729 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:35:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <348357DE.F5A68B1A@excite.com> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:35:42 -0800 From: Kingson Gunawan Reply-To: kingson@excite.com Organization: Excite Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: changing limit of the number of processes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just wondering, how do I change the limit to the number of processes an account can run? I tried to modify /etc/login.conf, but it does not seem to matter. At about 100 processes, it stops any attempt to create another process. Kingson From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 17:33:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12133 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:33:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12128 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:32:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29191; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:40:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd029165; Mon Dec 1 18:40:08 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA28471; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:32:08 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712020132.SAA28471@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:32:08 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712011926.OAA00376@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Dec 1, 97 02:26:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For fun (and actually as a result of a comment by Justin Gibbs), I have put > together a small program that could maybe be used for streaming tape drives > using the new AIO code. Note that if you try this, it must be used only > on current kernels on/after 19:00 GMT, Dec 1. [ ... ] > errval = aio_suspend(&olist[i], 1, NULL); > errval = aio_error(olist[i]); > rtval = aio_return(olist[i]); > errval = aio_write(olist[i]); > nread = read( fd1, bufaddrs[i], BUFSZ); Some questions... 1) Why did you 'read' instead of 'aio_read'? 2) Why did you define your own interface instead of using the SunOS/Solaris/SVR4/SCO interface: -------------------------------------------------------------- #include int aioread(fd, bufp, bufs, offset, whence, resultp) int fd; char *bufp; int bufs; int offset; int whence; aio_result_t *resultp; int aiowrite(fd, bufp, bufs, offset, whence, resultp) int fd; char *bufp; int bufs; int offset; int whence; aio_result_t *resultp; -------------------------------------------------------------- #include #include aio_result_t *aiowait(timeout) struct timeval *timeout; -------------------------------------------------------------- #include int aiocancel(resultp) aio_result_t *resultp; -------------------------------------------------------------- Is there a reason for this incompatability? You are aware that there exist many programs for which we should like to provide ABI compatability that directly reference these calls, including the library code from the University of Washington paper "User Space Threading And SPARC Register Windows" ... AKA SunOS 4.1.3 liblwp, right? 3) Do you plan on adding the compatability header file and compatability system calls? Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I sort of just assumed that any "AIO" implementation that was implemented as other than a generalized async call gate mechanism (so that a cooperative kernel/user threading scheduler could be built) would be implemented as a compatability API for exising AIO mechanisms, and not some new invention. 8-(. Pretty cleary, the new invention (just like Sun's invention) is less than useful for socket I/O that needs to consider OOB data. Like the Telnet protocol used on the control connection to an FTP server. I like the idea of adding list-based mechanisms, but at the very least, the API consumed by existing software should probably be supported (and probably not as wrappers, both for ABI and for non-list-based performance considerations). For example, can't pthreads from the MIT distribution use aio instead of select() based "readability/writeability" testing for a significant performance win? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 17:54:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13597 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13591 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:54:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id UAA08318; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:54:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712020154.UAA08318@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712020132.SAA28471@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 2, 97 01:32:08 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:54:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > For fun (and actually as a result of a comment by Justin Gibbs), I have put > > together a small program that could maybe be used for streaming tape drives > > using the new AIO code. Note that if you try this, it must be used only > > on current kernels on/after 19:00 GMT, Dec 1. > > [ ... ] > > > errval = aio_suspend(&olist[i], 1, NULL); > > errval = aio_error(olist[i]); > > rtval = aio_return(olist[i]); > > errval = aio_write(olist[i]); > > nread = read( fd1, bufaddrs[i], BUFSZ); > > Some questions... > > 1) Why did you 'read' instead of 'aio_read'? > Because that is what I chose to use in my example. aio_read works also. > > 2) Why did you define your own interface instead of using the > SunOS/Solaris/SVR4/SCO interface: > Did I write POSIX IEEE Std 1003.1b-1993? You give me alot of credit, because the functions that I implemented came from there. (refer to pages 151 through 168 of the standards document.) The stuff is also the same as the equivalents in The Open Group X/Open Spec. I really don't think that I invented those interfaces also. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 18:06:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14379 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:06:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14369 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:06:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xchj2-0003kf-00; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:06:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:06:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Terry Lambert cc: "John S. Dyson" , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712020132.SAA28471@usr07.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > 2) Why did you define your own interface instead of using the > SunOS/Solaris/SVR4/SCO interface: As I recall from previous messages, this AIO interface is written to Posix. The rest of your message should probably be addressed to parties at Posix on why and how they invented stuff. Tom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 18:22:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15558 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:22:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15540 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id VAA08422; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:21:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712020221.VAA08422@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712020132.SAA28471@usr07.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 2, 97 01:32:08 am" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:21:54 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I sort of just assumed that any > "AIO" implementation that was implemented as other than a generalized > async call gate mechanism (so that a cooperative kernel/user threading > scheduler could be built) would be implemented as a compatability API > for exising AIO mechanisms, and not some new invention. 8-(. Pretty > cleary, the new invention (just like Sun's invention) is less than > useful for socket I/O that needs to consider OOB data. Like the Telnet > protocol used on the control connection to an FTP server. > > I like the idea of adding list-based mechanisms, but at the very > least, the API consumed by existing software should probably be > supported (and probably not as wrappers, both for ABI and for > non-list-based performance considerations). For example, can't > pthreads from the MIT distribution use aio instead of select() > based "readability/writeability" testing for a significant performance > win? > You have to realize what my near term/long term goals are. Firstly, there is absolutely no reason that the threading mechanism has to be used. I am NOT using it for my main purpose -- that is RAW I/O. If there is any cause to, we can abstract the code for sockets or whatever. Each type of device needs a different kind of handler, and at that point, some kind of switch scheme would be appropriate. The code as commited proves a couple of things: 1) We can do the non-threaded approach. (physio type transfers.) 2) We can do the threaded approach. (non-physio type transfers.) Eventually, we can easily extend the code to avoid kernel threads, except in exceptional cases. I would greatly appreciate it if you would consult with me so that you can: 1) Know what spec's that I am using (which happen to be the *standard*) 2) Know a little about my strategy and reasoning. before criticizing the work. Think database... If we need to extend the code for sockets, I can do it in a day... -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 21:56:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02459 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:56:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02454 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:56:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12943; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:56:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012909; Mon Dec 1 22:56:46 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA16160; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:56:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712020556.WAA16160@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 05:56:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712020154.UAA08318@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Dec 1, 97 08:54:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Some questions... > > > > 1) Why did you 'read' instead of 'aio_read'? > > Because that is what I chose to use in my example. aio_read works also. OK. I wasn't sure if there was some intentional advantage to using 'read' or simply a non-advantage to using 'aio_read' or what... > > 2) Why did you define your own interface instead of using the > > SunOS/Solaris/SVR4/SCO interface: > > Did I write POSIX IEEE Std 1003.1b-1993? You give me alot of credit, because > the functions that I implemented came from there. (refer to pages 151 > through 168 of the standards document.) The stuff is also the same as the > equivalents in The Open Group X/Open Spec. I really don't think that I > invented those interfaces also. I didn't realize that POSIX had invented Yet Another API. 8-(. Crap. Those idiots need to get their stuff together; it looks as if the standards are being pushed to try and gain "competitive advantage" again. The same reason the Single UNIX Specification is useless, and the same reason there isn't an API to turn of everything but the standard parts of an API. What is this vainglorious thing that UNIX has about trying to fragment its market as much as possible while at the same time ignoring the real threat from Redmond? It must be a deathwish or something... 8-(. You would think they would have at least Done The Right Thing and not implemented something that doesn't span all potentially blocking system calls. Sorry to blame you for their mistakes... 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 22:08:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03130 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03124 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:08:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06630; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd006569; Mon Dec 1 23:06:50 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA16270; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:59:55 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712020559.WAA16270@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls To: tom@uniserve.com (Tom) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 05:59:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Tom" at Dec 1, 97 06:06:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 2) Why did you define your own interface instead of using the > > SunOS/Solaris/SVR4/SCO interface: > > As I recall from previous messages, this AIO interface is written to > Posix. The rest of your message should probably be addressed to parties > at Posix on why and how they invented stuff. Consider it done. As Julian pointed out to me, the name spaces are non-colliding, so there's still some hope of an aioread/aiowrite/aiowait/aiocancel, so we can have the defacto standard interfaces as well as the POSIX "we are a standards body, and Microsoft should bow to our authority" ``standards''. Why don't they add same-function-but-incompatible interfaces for all of the things in Win332 and not in UNIX while they are at it so we can be assured that the situation is truly hopeless... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 22:22:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03677 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03671 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:22:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06406; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:45:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd006363; Mon Dec 1 16:45:44 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA17318; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:21:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712020621.XAA17318@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 06:21:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712020221.VAA08422@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Dec 1, 97 09:21:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You have to realize what my near term/long term goals are. Firstly, there is > absolutely no reason that the threading mechanism has to be used. I am > NOT using it for my main purpose -- that is RAW I/O. If there is any cause > to, we can abstract the code for sockets or whatever. Each type of device > needs a different kind of handler, and at that point, some kind of switch > scheme would be appropriate. I think that works... mostly. You don't get an aio_recvmsg(), though that you can call on a UDP socket with appropriate options to get the packet header out and know the intended destination of the datagram on a multihomed machine. There are somethings for which aio_read() is simply not general enough. As I said in the other posting, this speaks more to the bad design of the new POSIX standard. > The code as commited proves a couple of things: > > 1) We can do the non-threaded approach. (physio type transfers.) > 2) We can do the threaded approach. (non-physio type transfers.) > > Eventually, we can easily extend the code to avoid kernel threads, except > in exceptional cases. I would greatly appreciate it if you would consult > with me so that you can: > > 1) Know what spec's that I am using (which happen to be > the *standard*) *A* standard, anyway; I've already appologized for blaming their brain damage on you. > 2) Know a little about my strategy and reasoning. > > before criticizing the work. Think database... If we need to extend the > code for sockets, I can do it in a day... Would you be adding an aio_recvmsg() to do it? I think that you can extend this argument to the point where you want an async version of any system call that could possibly block so you could use it for call-conversion based scheduling of N user space threads against M kernel space threads worth of quantum, where the N:M relationship is determined by how many processors you have and the number of processes you are competing against for quantum (ie: things like "give me quantum as if I were two processes"). Once the scheduler gives me a quantum, it's *my* quantum, and I should not be forced to give it away simply because I want to schedule some operation for which the resources aren't immediately available... It seems to me (still) as if the best way to achieve this would be an async call gate mechanism, where you get two flag bits in the sysent: #define SYSCALL_WONT_BLOCK 0x00000000 #define SYSCALL_MAY_BLOCK 0x00000200 #define SYSCALL_WILL_BLOCK 0x00000400 #define SYSCALL_BLOCK_MASK 0x00000600 For something that will block, you create an async context and return the context address as the call return value to user space immediately. For something that may block, you create the async context IFF you reach a blocking point, but delay returning it until you actually block, since you may not. For something that won't block, you return a special async contex after the call completes with completion status already signalled, and the return value present. This is all implementation detail, so I really don't care how it's actually physically implemented. You could leave of "will block" in favor of doing everything "may block", or in favor of creating a context and returning immediately on all potentially blocking ops (there are tiny wins to be had either way). The aio_* routines demanded by the lame-o POSIX "let's redefine the universe in an incompatible way each Tuesday, and while we're at it, let's ignore making the interface logically complete or correcting out past mistakes so you still need crap like libc_r" can be nothing more than wrappers. The real problem is "how do you avoid getting caught up in the POSIX vs. Microsoft War". POSIX has been a CLIN on many government contracts, which is why Microsoft was willing to wave their hands over the compatability issue once. But don't kid yourself that POSIX standards will be able to drive anything (other than "UNIX, into the ground") in the future. 8-(. Having a morose day... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 23:03:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05474 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:03:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA05469 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:02:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dyson@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 5084 invoked from network); 2 Dec 1997 07:02:38 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO freebsd.org) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 2 Dec 1997 07:02:38 -0000 Message-ID: <3483B288.DD0CD0E9@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 07:02:32 +0000 From: "John S. Dyson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert CC: "John S. Dyson" , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls References: <199712020621.XAA17318@usr08.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote: > > The aio_* routines demanded by the lame-o POSIX "let's redefine the > universe in an incompatible way each Tuesday, and while we're at it, > let's ignore making the interface logically complete or correcting > out past mistakes so you still need crap like libc_r" can be nothing > more than wrappers. > Well, not only are the aio_* routines POSIX, but they are the standard UNIX (X/Open owns the branding for UNIX), and they also adopted the aio_* functions. I see nothing in the latest X/Open (UNIX) specs about aioread/aiowrite. The spec is now aio_read, aio_write. (They might really be in there somewhere in the deprecated section somewhere.) I really don't think that it is a good idea to chase history. I would expect that we could implement a compatibility aioread/aiowrite library or whatever, but those don't appear to exist in current (the latest) UNIX or POSIX docs. They most likely exist in legacy code, and on that basis, I can understand that they could be useful to implement -- but should be implemented only for that reason. If you make a bona-fide attempt at implementing the backwards compatible aioread/aiowrite and friends, and need additional kernel support, let me know. BTW, I also plan to implement pread/pwrite, but haven't decided to implement as a kernel call, or as a section (3) subroutine. (Those are less of an issue though.) So, the point that I am trying to make, is that I am implementing system calls or subroutines with the attempt of meeting *BOTH* POSIX and UNIX when applicable, and the aio_* routines do that. We am missing a minor amount of functionality in our implementation right now, but am too busy to do that right now. The code WILL be in 3.0, and will be in -current very soon. (aio_fsync, and some aio_cancel functionality). Likewise, my scaffolding for threads will support pthreads. Which version? Probably the most recent. (Hopefully, someone else will implement most of the threading package though.) We could support Solaris or Linux threads, but again (IMO), that should be in the form of a reverse or backwards compatibility package. John From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 23:26:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06944 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:26:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06935 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00229 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:26:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712020726.XAA00229@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3.0 -release ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:26:35 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going to come out? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Mon Dec 1 23:39:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07882 for current-outgoing; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:39:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07872 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:39:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id CAA04028 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:39:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:39:29 -0500 (EST) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: [Q] Current as of dec,. 2nd, questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I apparently had to much to much free time on my hands today and decided, out of boredom, to cvsup current. I was shocked to find that buildworl actually finished :) with no problems. My questions come down to config, on a new -current SMP kernel. 1) And i'm not real concerned with this one, # config OPSYS Removing old directory ../../compile/OPSYS: Done. files.i386: i386/isa/npx.c must be optional or standard npx is in my Kernel config file. So i figure its just a minor glitch. Am i wrong or is this going to blow up after i fix problem 2? 2) My compile directory is apparently missing the Makefile to build the kernel. Is this just bump in the road for todays -current src? If it is, ill wait and cvsup in a couple more days. If not where does the makefile for /usr/src/sys/compile/ come from? And i will just hunt it down from there. -- ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.5 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 01:24:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA14683 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14676 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA01257; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:24:18 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 23:26:35 PST." <199712020726.XAA00229@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:24:18 -0800 Message-ID: <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm going to get. :) > > Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going to come out? > > > Tnks, > Amancio > > From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 01:59:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA17201 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:59:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17196 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 01:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00400; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:00:13 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712021000.LAA00400@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 2, 97 01:24:18 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:00:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > going to get. :) I would have said "when its ready", but well :) > > > > Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going to come out? > > > > > > Tnks, > > Amancio -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 02:08:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA17776 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:08:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA17760 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:08:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id VAA03137; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:02:58 +1100 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:02:58 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm >going to get. :) You mean spring in the Southern hemisphere of course ;-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 02:30:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA19132 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:30:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA19122 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:30:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA01712; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:29:47 -0800 (PST) To: sos@FreeBSD.dk cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:00:13 +0100." <199712021000.LAA00400@sos.freebsd.dk> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:29:46 -0800 Message-ID: <1708.881058586@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I would have said "when its ready", but well :) "When it's ready" is already a registered trademark of The NetBSD Foundation. :-) :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 02:37:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA19649 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:37:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA19642 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:37:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA01758; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 02:36:32 -0800 (PST) To: Bruce Evans cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:02:58 +1100." <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:36:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1754.881058992@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > >going to get. :) > > You mean spring in the Southern hemisphere of course ;-). I didn't think you had spring in the southern hemisphere. Doesn't equatorial wobble result in a quick jump from autumn straight into summer? Nothing else would account for the average southern islander being able to wear a loincloth 10 months out of the year. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 03:11:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA21490 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA21460; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@FreeBSD.org) From: Julian Elischer Received: (from julian@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) id DAA19741; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:10:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 03:10:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712021110.DAA19741@freefall.freebsd.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: wrong SLICE/DEVFS file sent out Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk to those of you that complained that my descriptions didn'nt match what you were seeing.. you were right. I sent out the wrong version (old) the new version is at: ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/scsi/slice2.tar.gz it is 52931 bytes long From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 04:21:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26217 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:21:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26206 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:21:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01297; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:19:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Bruce Evans cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:02:58 +1100." <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:19:24 +0100 Message-ID: <1295.881065164@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au>, Bruce Evans writes: >>Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm >>going to get. :) > >You mean spring in the Southern hemisphere of course ;-). Yes of course ... on Jupiter ! :-) (that should buy us 11 years :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 04:28:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA26638 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA26623 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:28:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01359 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:26:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:55:30 PST." <199712012355.PAA11311@kithrup.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:26:17 +0100 Message-ID: <1357.881065577@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712012355.PAA11311@kithrup.com>, Sean Eric Fagan writes: >In article <19971201155116.18825.kithrup.freebsd.current@right.PCS> you writ >e: >>> This is an example of why said change was a mistake... >>I never did get around to asking, so I guess this might be a good time as >>any; why were the retvals moved into the proc structure in the first place? >>I assume for performance reasons, but I don't recall seeing any discussion >>about it on the lists. > >When I saw the commit message by PHK, I replied, to him and to >cvs-all@freebsd.org (which is apparently not archived, so I can't get the >exact date). > >I questioned the change, and said I "strongly objected" to it. ...with no further comments. If you had bothered to say why, I could have engaged in a discussion with you about it... >I disapprove of them for a variety of reasons -- they're overly intrusive, >introduce too much incompatibility for no real gain, needlessly change the >proc structure, don't allow for future system calls that might need to >return more than two words, and make some of the stuff done in the >computability libraries harder. I don't know what you're trying to be compatible with here... I think that the entire "retval" thing should go away entirely and be handled in the libc syscall stubs, this was the first step towards that goal. And yes, the reason is performance. >Yes, I'm just a bit bitter about my complaint having gone unheeded and >ignored, and having great delight in saying, "Hey, I told you so!" :) No you didn't, all you said was "I strongly object to this change". -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 07:10:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA06097 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:10:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA06091 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 07:10:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nash@Venus.mcs.net) Received: from Venus.mcs.net (nash@Venus.mcs.net [192.160.127.92]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA15658; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:10:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (nash@localhost) by Venus.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA06402; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:10:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:10:43 -0600 (CST) From: Alex Nash To: Kingson Gunawan cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: changing limit of the number of processes In-Reply-To: <348357DE.F5A68B1A@excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Kingson Gunawan wrote: > Just wondering, how do I change the limit to the number of processes an > account can run? I tried to modify /etc/login.conf, but it does not > seem to matter. At about 100 processes, it stops any attempt to create > another process. Look into the following sysctl variables: kern.maxproc kern.maxprocperuid Alex From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 09:06:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14822 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:06:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14814 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:06:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA28517; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:06:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:06:20 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712021706.JAA28517@kithrup.com> To: current@freebsd.org Reply-To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <1357.881065577.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> References: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:55:30 PST." <199712012355.PAA11311@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <1357.881065577.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> you write: >>I questioned the change, and said I "strongly objected" to it. >...with no further comments. If you had bothered to say why, I could have >engaged in a discussion with you about it... I made a couple of comments. Gosh, didn't know I was required to prove myself to you, though. But, instead, you just ignored it -- and now people are asking why there was no discussion about it. Who reviewed the changes? Who submitted them? What PR did they fix? None of those things was mentioned in the commit message. >I think that the entire "retval" thing should go away entirely and be >handled in the libc syscall stubs, this was the first step towards >that goal. And handled *how*? >And yes, the reason is performance. Then you should back the changes out IMMEDIATELY, as *retval = 10; is exactly the same speed as: p->p_retval[0] = 10; yet takes up less total system space (two words on the kernel stack vs. two words added to the proc structure of every process), requires less copying when dealing with emulation support, and requires less changing when incorporating code from other code bases (you *have* heard of things such as NetBSD, BSDi, 4.4BSD, and so forth?). >No you didn't, all you said was "I strongly object to this change". And I still do. *You* are the one who checked it in. I challenge *you* to justify this intrusive, complex, not-apparantly-worthwhile change. I claim that it is not worth it, and should be backed out. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 09:19:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA15894 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:19:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA15884 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:19:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xcvyg-0003cy-00; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:19:18 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA05285; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:18:56 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712021718.KAA05285@harmony.village.org> To: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:02:58 +1100." <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:18:56 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712021002.VAA03137@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Bruce Evans writes: : >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm : >going to get. :) : : You mean spring in the Southern hemisphere of course ;-). And that 1998 isn't necessarily AD either. It could be 1998 years from the birth of unix, for all we know :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 10:09:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19697 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19684 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:09:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02925 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:07:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:06:20 PST." <199712021706.JAA28517@kithrup.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:07:04 +0100 Message-ID: <2923.881086024@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>And yes, the reason is performance. > >Then you should back the changes out IMMEDIATELY, as > > *retval = 10; > >is exactly the same speed as: > > p->p_retval[0] = 10; BZZZTT! Wrong answer. We save the time it takes to push the &retval on the stack on ALL syscalls. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 10:34:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21453 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:34:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21446 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:34:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA06151; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:34:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:34:13 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712021834.KAA06151@kithrup.com> To: current@freebsd.org Reply-To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <199712021706.JAA28517.kithrup.freebsd.current@kithrup.com> References: Your message of "Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:55:30 PST." <199712012355.PAA11311@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I wrote: >I made a couple of comments. Gosh, didn't know I was required to prove >myself to you, though. But, instead, you just ignored it -- and now people >are asking why there was no discussion about it. > >Who reviewed the changes? Who submitted them? What PR did they fix? None >of those things was mentioned in the commit message. This is not meant as an attack, really ;). I do think the change was wrong and should not be there. That is why I sent out a message saying I objected to it. But you decided, rather than to find out what specific complaints I had (which I alluded to in my message, but did not fully explain), to ignore it. Other people apparantly had concerns abotu it as well, although they didn't say anything until now. I *am* unhappy with the fact that you (phk) decided to simply ignore the message. And I still believe that, unless you have some compelling reasons for it (and nothing you've stated *yet* is a compelling reason), that the changes should be backed out. This is similar to Terry's proposed filesystem chagnes -- they are, for the most part, nice and useful -- but without any other code to use them, they are largely gratuitious, invasive, and needless. Only Terry can't check his code in directly. :) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 10:49:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22422 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:49:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22402; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:49:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11971; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:49:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd011926; Tue Dec 2 11:48:57 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA18076; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:48:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712021848.LAA18076@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls To: dyson@freebsd.org (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:48:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3483B288.DD0CD0E9@freebsd.org> from "John S. Dyson" at Dec 2, 97 07:02:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > BTW, I also plan to implement pread/pwrite, but haven't decided to > implement as a kernel call, or as a section (3) subroutine. (Those > are less of an issue though.) I don't think you can implement pread/pwrite as section (3) routines; the need for them arises from the need to pass a seek offset with a read or write request because you can't trust the seek+read or seek+write to be atomic -- so implementing them that way would leave a race window open. > So, the point that I am trying to make, is that I am implementing > system calls or subroutines with the attempt of meeting *BOTH* POSIX > and UNIX when applicable, and the aio_* routines do that. We am missing > a minor amount of functionality in our implementation right now, but am > too busy to do that right now. The code WILL be in 3.0, and will be > in -current very soon. (aio_fsync, and some aio_cancel functionality). I know that; it's just evil that the POSIX people have implemented before thinking. SVR4 kernel threading was implemented without a great deal of thinking (the SVR4 VM architect assured me that there was VM support for dynamic per thread stacks, but that the SVR4 threading implementation simply chose to ignore it in favor of statically allocated stacks; similar cases abound). I hate the fact that it's still possible to make a non-I/O based blocking call (like, oh, wait3()) that doesn't result in a call conversion and context switch: basically, you *must* give away your quantum that you were promised by the scheduler in order to make this and similar calls. What were they thinking? > Likewise, my scaffolding for threads will support pthreads. Which > version? Probably the most recent. (Hopefully, someone else will > implement most of the threading package though.) We could support > Solaris or Linux threads, but again (IMO), that should be in the > form of a reverse or backwards compatibility package. Agreed; the Solaris threading model is inherently flawed; it results in "churning" of scheduling contexts, and there's no "thread group" affinity to alleviate even some of the work that has to be done while that's happening. It also frequently results in CPU starvation when the number of user space threads outnumber the kernel threads to which they are coupled. And the Solaris model and SVR4 model are pretty much identical in this behaviour. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 10:59:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22856 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:59:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22833; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:58:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id NAA02027; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:54:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712021854.NAA02027@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: FYI: usage of new AIO calls In-Reply-To: <199712021848.LAA18076@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 2, 97 06:48:54 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:54:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, tlambert@primenet.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > BTW, I also plan to implement pread/pwrite, but haven't decided to > > implement as a kernel call, or as a section (3) subroutine. (Those > > are less of an issue though.) > > I don't think you can implement pread/pwrite as section (3) routines; > the need for them arises from the need to pass a seek offset with > a read or write request because you can't trust the seek+read or > seek+write to be atomic -- so implementing them that way would > leave a race window open. > Actually, I was thinking about implementing them as aio_read/aio_write, with a aio_suspend and aio_error call. Those would likely have no such race conditions. (aio_read/aio_write are atomic.) > > I know that; it's just evil that the POSIX people have implemented > before thinking. SVR4 kernel threading was implemented without a > great deal of thinking (the SVR4 VM architect assured me that there > was VM support for dynamic per thread stacks, but that the SVR4 > threading implementation simply chose to ignore it in favor of > statically allocated stacks; similar cases abound). > Actually, I had thought about supporting dynamic per thread stacks, but nothing keeps us from doing that as an *extra*. The decision by POSIX was probably made as a compromise. > > I hate the fact that it's still possible to make a non-I/O based blocking > call (like, oh, wait3()) that doesn't result in a call conversion and > context switch: basically, you *must* give away your quantum that you > were promised by the scheduler in order to make this and similar > calls. What were they thinking? > Interesting thought. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 11:35:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26383 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:35:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26377 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:35:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA11724 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:35:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id NAA04101; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:35:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971202133542.27322@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:35:42 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Adaptec Array Controller - Will it work? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks, Anyone thought about being able to talk to the AAA-130 series of array controllers? I've got one here for testing, and I'm going to fire it up and see if it "just works" as an SCSI device under the PCI adapter.... I won't be able to hot-control the array (you can config it from a cold boot via floppy) but perhaps it will recognize as a standard SCSI device. If not, anyone thought about supporting this in FreeBSD? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 11:42:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27092 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:42:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27084 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:42:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA16742; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:42:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712021942.LAA16742@kithrup.com> To: current@freebsd.org Reply-To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <2923.881086024.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 09:06:20 PST." <199712021706.JAA28517@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <2923.881086024.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> you write: >>is exactly the same speed as: >> >> p->p_retval[0] = 10; > >BZZZTT! Wrong answer. > >We save the time it takes to push the &retval on the stack on ALL syscalls. Versus the time it take sto copy the extra two words around when creating the proc structure, versus the extra size of the proc structure, versus the extra work now being done to deal with it, etc. It takes less than 5 cycles to push the address. That adds up to some degree when dealing with the layers of calls -- that I can see as a savings. But it's insignificant, or should be -- unless you have real numbers to back this up. If it adds up to 0.1% of an average system call time, I would be highly surprised. Sorry, that is *still* not a compelling argument. If you want to make things more efficient, there are some things you can do with FPU emulation that can save a bunch of clock cycles off; or you could think about rewriting how the trap handler itself is done -- that could be improved quite a bit, I think. But it'd probably require more assembly programming. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 11:57:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27951 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:57:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27920 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:56:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03182 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:54:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:34:13 PST." <199712021834.KAA06151@kithrup.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 20:54:48 +0100 Message-ID: <3180.881092488@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712021834.KAA06151@kithrup.com>, Sean Eric Fagan writes: >I *am* unhappy with the fact that you (phk) decided to simply ignore the >message. And I still believe that, unless you have some compelling reasons >for it (and nothing you've stated *yet* is a compelling reason), that the >changes should be backed out. I have taken the attitude by now, and I belive I have earned the right to it, that if people doesn't express themselves so their emails make sense, then I can safely ignore it. I get too many emails as it is, and if I have to spend several minutes trying to figure out what it is that you were complaining about because you only "allude" to the substance of the complaint, then 'd' is the fate of the email. Sorry, but that's life. On the subject of the change, the majority by number (and as far as I have been able to measure: by usage) of our syscalls do not use the retval for anything. Consequently it is a waste of time to move it around on the stack like we did. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 12:01:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28525 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:01:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28510 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:00:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24080 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:50:47 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id NAA26149; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:50:16 -0600 Message-ID: <19971202135015.64574@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:50:15 -0600 From: Jonathan Lemon To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c References: <199712012355.PAA11311@kithrup.com> <199712021834.KAA06151@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199712021834.KAA06151@kithrup.com>; from Sean Eric Fagan on Dec 12, 1997 at 10:34:13AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Dec 12, 1997 at 10:34:13AM -0800, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: > Other people apparantly had concerns abotu it as well, although they didn't > say anything until now. > > I *am* unhappy with the fact that you (phk) decided to simply ignore the > message. And I still believe that, unless you have some compelling reasons > for it (and nothing you've stated *yet* is a compelling reason), that the > changes should be backed out. > > This is similar to Terry's proposed filesystem chagnes -- they are, for the > most part, nice and useful -- but without any other code to use them, they > are largely gratuitious, invasive, and needless. Only Terry can't check his > code in directly. :) My take on this is that if something is nice, useful, and opens up new horizons, then it probably should be included, as long as it actually goes somewhere, eventually. This goes for both Terry's and phk's changes, as well as the DEVFS stuff. I assumed (correctly, it turns out) that the reason for the changes was to avoid the overhead of the stack push. I also assume that phk has done some benchmarks on the code in order to prove to his own satisfaction that the code runs faster; I'll take this on faith, although it would be nice to see the numbers. My gripe is that there wasn't any warning, and it broke some of the other things that I have (that aren't in the tree). It would have been nice to have a heads up, and at least an explanation of why the change was being made (if for nothing else than to reassure people that there _is_ a coherent design goal for FBSD). There _is_ a design goal, right? :-) -- Jonathan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 12:36:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01215 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:36:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from amity.ai.net (mrr@trekworld.com [205.134.188.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01198 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:36:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mrr@amity.ai.net) Received: from localhost (mrr@localhost) by amity.ai.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA08789; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:36:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:36:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael R. Rudel" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Bruce Evans , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <1754.881058992@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > > >going to get. :) > > > > You mean spring in the Southern hemisphere of course ;-). > > I didn't think you had spring in the southern hemisphere. Doesn't > equatorial wobble result in a quick jump from autumn straight into > summer? Nothing else would account for the average southern islander > being able to wear a loincloth 10 months out of the year. :) > > Jordan > Heh, you need to get some sleep, man. You've got way too much spare time on your hands. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= mrr-home.trekworld.com -=- FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT -=- There are no Limits Michael R. Rudel - Rhiannon Internet Services - Lead Programmer Administrator - Deep Space MUSE :: trekworld.com :: FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- mrr@trekworld.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 12:37:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01387 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01362 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:37:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03288 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 21:34:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:42:21 PST." <199712021942.LAA16742@kithrup.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 21:34:52 +0100 Message-ID: <3286.881094892@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712021942.LAA16742@kithrup.com>, Sean Eric Fagan writes: >>We save the time it takes to push the &retval on the stack on ALL syscalls. > >Versus the time it take sto copy the extra two words around when creating >the proc structure, versus the extra size of the proc structure, versus the >extra work now being done to deal with it, etc. the difference between you and me on this is that I have measured the actual difference, you are writing on the back of an envelope. >It takes less than 5 cycles to push the address. That adds up to some >degree when dealing with the layers of calls -- that I can see as a savings. >But it's insignificant, or should be -- unless you have real numbers to back >this up. If it adds up to 0.1% of an average system call time, I would be >highly surprised. I do have numbers. Overall improvement after this change: 0.01 % >Sorry, that is *still* not a compelling argument. If you want to make >things more efficient, there are some things you can do with FPU emulation >that can save a bunch of clock cycles off; or you could think about >rewriting how the trap handler itself is done -- that could be improved >quite a bit, I think. But it'd probably require more assembly programming. Well, why don't you look at that, and leave me to do what I have in my pipeline, OK ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 13:01:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03213 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:01:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03204 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:00:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA19105 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:00:52 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id PAA08269; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:00:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971202150052.06845@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:00:52 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Adaptec Array Controller - Will it work? References: <19971202133542.27322@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <19971202133542.27322@mcs.net>; from Karl Denninger on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 01:35:42PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 01:35:42PM -0600, Karl Denninger wrote: > Hi folks, > > Anyone thought about being able to talk to the AAA-130 series of array > controllers? > > I've got one here for testing, and I'm going to fire it up and see if it > "just works" as an SCSI device under the PCI adapter.... I won't be able to > hot-control the array (you can config it from a cold boot via floppy) but > perhaps it will recognize as a standard SCSI device. > > If not, anyone thought about supporting this in FreeBSD? Well.... Ok, its recognized. As a standard Adaptec PCI adapter. How tough is it to support this thing in its native (RAIDized) format? Anyone got documentation for this and what needs to happen for it to work? According to the manuals, all the actual RAID operations and software are contained on the card, and the interface supposedly looks like a standard PCI adapter. Of course, I know that's not completely true, because I see *two* disks instead of one (in RAID 1 mode) when I boot the FreeBSD disk. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 13:04:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03599 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03591 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18161; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:59:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd018156; Tue Dec 2 12:59:10 1997 Message-ID: <34847612.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:56:50 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp CC: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c References: <2923.881086024@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > >>And yes, the reason is performance. > > > >Then you should back the changes out IMMEDIATELY, as > > > > *retval = 10; > > > >is exactly the same speed as: > > > > p->p_retval[0] = 10; > > BZZZTT! Wrong answer. > > We save the time it takes to push the &retval on the stack on ALL syscalls. Ok, ok, why don't you writ ea 2 paragraph description of the change.. before amd after.. and say why you think it is a win. address compatibilty for people who have kernel modules for bot NetBSD and FreeBSD (e.g. the ipfilter stuff) we do the following: have a quick discussion about the pro's and cons. and get David to vote.. after all that's why we voted him to be "Chief architect" remember? I know Sean will feel a lot better if he knows it's had a bit more ratification.. Poul. Can you think > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 13:31:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05570 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:31:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05565 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id NAA00912; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:31:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:31:33 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712022131.NAA00912@kithrup.com> To: current@freebsd.org Reply-To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <3180.881092488.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:34:13 PST." <199712021834.KAA06151@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <3180.881092488.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> you write: >I have taken the attitude by now, and I belive I have earned the >right to it, that if people doesn't express themselves so their >emails make sense, then I can safely ignore it. I get too many >emails as it is, and if I have to spend several minutes trying to >figure out what it is that you were complaining about because you >only "allude" to the substance of the complaint, then 'd' is the >fate of the email. Sorry, but that's life. If you are not willing to spend "several minutes" to defend a massive change, then you should not make that change. Sorry, but *that* is life. >On the subject of the change, the majority by number (and as far as I >have been able to measure: by usage) of our syscalls do not use the >retval for anything. Consequently it is a waste of time to move it >around on the stack like we did. A minimal waste of time. Less than 10 cycles, even on the slowest x86, for the initial push. The syscalls that don't use then don't pass it around generally, so there is no additional overhead. You have given *one* reason in support of the change. You have had several *against* the change. The only reason you did not get them earlier is because you did not choose to -- my first message, in response to the commit message, mentioned that it would make some emulation stuff more complex. That was one reason I am against it. It was more justification than you gave for making the change. And what about having to support more than two words of return values? Doing so requires a change to the proc structure -- something that should happen rarely, if at all. (No, we probably will never have a native system call that does that -- but can you guarantee that about Linux, SysVr, NetBSD, BSD/OS?) Once again: the benefits are minimal. If this set of changes made more than 0.1% of a difference in performance, I would be highly surprised. The negative aspects, however, are multiple: emulation gets harder (because we have to do errno mapping, and deal with system calls calling system calls); possible future emulation support gets more difficult (due to the limit of two retval's); the change was made with no discussion, warning, or apparant review (you still haven't said who, if anyone, reviewed the changes); anyone porting code from other sources (either in source or binary form) now has to deal with this. The worst thing about it is that it's a *regression* -- there was a reason that CSRG went away from u.u_ar0 and u.u_ar1, you know. It's *ugly*. And that is what you have re-introduced, albeit with a different name. If you want a performance improvement, I can, and in fact *have*, suggested other areas that could be looked at. But what's a little incompatibility, overhead, and instability, hm? :) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 13:50:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07392 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:50:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07379 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:50:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id QAA02590; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:49:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712022149.QAA02590@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <19971202135015.64574@right.PCS> from Jonathan Lemon at "Dec 2, 97 01:50:15 pm" To: jlemon@americantv.com (Jonathan Lemon) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:49:58 -0500 (EST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan Lemon said: > > My gripe is that there wasn't any warning, and it broke some of the other > things that I have (that aren't in the tree). It would have been nice to > have a heads up, and at least an explanation of why the change was being > made (if for nothing else than to reassure people that there _is_ a coherent > design goal for FBSD). There _is_ a design goal, right? :-) > Actually, if the change (retval) bothers me at all is that it is different than the way that it used to be done. There are some changes that are self contained, and they don't affect any other piece of code. There are other changes (the retval changes) that affect almost everything, and can make it more difficult (at first) during the transition to write code, because of bugs that are partially due to the change being forgotten about by the other developers. In my case, I remembered about the change, wrote the code for the new method, but didn't recognise the side effect that bit me. That is *my* problem, the developer of other new code, that uses the new methodology. However, developers who do make global changes should weigh the costs and benefits. If the developer isn't sure about his/her position, or wants consultation, they should discuss the modifications with other FreeBSD developers, either privately or publically. (I think that a mix of both public and private discussion is advantageous.) Really significant changes should be discussed with -core, and at least be things that DG feels comfortable with. (Note that DG isn't "boss", but someone has to be the focal point and have the responsibility for the coherency of the software. DG is very very good at that job.) I don't know if PHK discussed the change with DG, BDE, me (I don't remember things very well) or someone else who also has some vested interest in the quality of the code -- but I trust that he did weigh the options. If FreeBSD messes up or his change is a bad idea, it will reflect on him (not only us as a whole.) The peer-pressure method of quality control kind of maximizes our freedom, and still maintains quality. After all of this, one thing that I really want to see us avoid is change for change's sake, and a million lines of diffs for a 0.5% improvement in performance. I think also each of us should be careful to listen to input from other developers (core, major contributors, and the user base), just so we avoid making obvious mistakes very often. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 14:03:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08637 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:03:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08620; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA04574; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:03:27 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712022203.OAA04574@kithrup.com> To: current@freebsd.org Reply-To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <3286.881094892.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:42:21 PST." <199712021942.LAA16742@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Cc: davidg@freebsd.org, phk@critter.freebsd.dk Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <3286.881094892.kithrup.freebsd.current@critter.freebsd.dk> you write: >the difference between you and me on this is that I have measured the >actual difference, you are writing on the back of an envelope. and then: >>If it adds up to 0.1% of an average system call time, I would be >>highly surprised. >I do have numbers. Overall improvement after this change: 0.01 % Gosh. Looks like my statement that any improvement was minimal was *right*. Could it be that I actually *looked* at things before I came up with that number? (As an aside, I would have guessed 0.01% improvement, maybe a bit less... but I decided to be charitable and assume you'd actually come up with something more substantial than my "back of an envelope" -- yet correct -- measurements and evaluation came up with.) >Well, why don't you look at that, and leave me to do what I have in my >pipeline, OK ? Because you broke things. Because you ignored my complaint about it. Because I am not the only one who is unhappy with this change. Because anything else in your pipeline may break even more code. Because you seem to feel that one hundredth of one hundredth of a performance improvement is worth a massive, intrusive, ill-conceived change. Since you've now reported a result, I now suggest and request that the changes be backed out -- one ten-thousandth of an improvement is not worth this particular set of changes. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 14:40:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11052 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:40:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11045 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA07724; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:40:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:40:43 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712022240.OAA07724@kithrup.com> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: sef@kithrup.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c In-Reply-To: <199712022131.NAA00912.kithrup.freebsd.current@kithrup.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:34:13 PST." <199712021834.KAA06151@kithrup.com> Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199712022131.NAA00912.kithrup.freebsd.current@kithrup.com> you write: Well, I wrote. And I've said what I expect to be the last on it -- I don't really have a problem with the changes as an experiment, or Poul-Henning (even though it may sound like that, and I *do* apologise for it if so -- I don't hold anything against you personally). I do think they were not very good changes, however, for a lot of reasons. If it didn't impact on the API and proc structure, I wouldn't care -- and a 0.01% performance gain in that situation is a reasonable accomplishment. But these changes did affect the API, and the proc structure, and those are both things that should not be done lightly -- and I think, in this case, it was done too lightly; if the gains had been higher (on the order of 1%, perhaps), I'd've said "go for it." But that was not the case. Anyway, hopefully, everyone's said their piece about it, and I won't have anything else to say about it now :). From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 15:08:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13812 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:08:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from nttws1.netfocus.net (nttws1.netfocus.net [207.150.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13802 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:08:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from holland@mail.netfocus.net) From: holland@mail.netfocus.net Received: by nttws1.netfocus.net from localhost (router,SLMail V2.5); Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:20:55 -0600 Received: by nttws1.netfocus.net from richard (208.142.17.53::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.5); Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:20:54 -0600 To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:03:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: help Priority: normal Message-Id: <19971202172055.87cae7b5.in@nttws1.netfocus.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk help From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 16:11:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18197 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:11:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ener1000.dee.uc.pt (fbsd@ener1000.dee.uc.pt [193.136.238.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18189 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:11:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@ener1000.dee.uc.pt) Received: from localhost (fbsd@localhost) by ener1000.dee.uc.pt (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02440 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:09:04 GMT Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:09:03 +0000 (WET) From: FreeBSD User To: current@freebsd.org Subject: IIJPPP does no exit on line hangup Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am using user ppp to have incomming ppp connections to a machine, it works very well. The problem I found is that, if I disconnect the telephone line, ppp does not exits and the line becomes unusable. I have to kill it by hand. If I perform a normal disconnect, everything goes ok. Any hint? Regards, Paulo From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 16:15:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18519 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:15:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18514 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:15:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04444; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:40:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004371; Tue Dec 2 10:40:16 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA01867; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 17:14:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712030014.RAA01867@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern vfs_aio.c To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:14:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3180.881092488@critter.freebsd.dk> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Dec 2, 97 08:54:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On the subject of the change, the majority by number (and as far as I > have been able to measure: by usage) of our syscalls do not use the > retval for anything. Consequently it is a waste of time to move it > around on the stack like we did. I think that people are too hung up on "I must see this much win for a change to be considered good". I think the larger issues are being ignored: 1) What future work is enabled/disallowed by this change? This must be the primary consideration. If Poul needs the change for future work, it should go in, even if there is net zero win. 2) How does the change impact the need for machine specific code? If it decreases the need for machine specific code, then it makes porting to a new architecture easier. Porting to a new architecture is probably going to require a "generic" version of a lot of code that is currently in assembly, and that can be made into assembly code on the new platform after a minimally functional system exists (this is, at least how I've approached the problem). If there is a decrease in machine specificity, and thus enables future work, it should go in, even if there is a net zero win. 3) What are the ramifications for the proc structure? If this change doesn't push the proc structure over a power of two boundry, or it brings it under a power of two boundry, it's either a NOP or a win. Either way, the proc structure changes more frequently than a politicians stance on an issue, and if anything, it will be incentive to solve the use of kmem as an external interface, and it should go in, even if there is a net zero win. There is such a thing as "building a platform for future work"; squash that for the lack of a short term win, and you squash *good* research for the dubious benefit of maintaining the status quo. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 16:21:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18999 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:21:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18972 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 16:21:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id BAA26207; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:21:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id BAA00496; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:19:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971203011933.50795@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:19:33 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Open Systems Networking Subject: Re: [Q] Current as of dec,. 2nd, questions Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Open Systems Networking on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 02:39:29AM -0500 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Open Systems Networking wrote: > 1) And i'm not real concerned with this one, # config OPSYS > Removing old directory ../../compile/OPSYS: Done. > files.i386: i386/isa/npx.c must be optional or standard > > npx is in my Kernel config file. Sure, but that's not the point here. You are strongly advised to follow this list if you intend to run -current. Even if you don't, rebuilding /usr/sbin/config in case of trouble is always a good first attempt in fixing... (Actually, npx should indeed be marked `optional' and not `mandatory', but that's another matter. I didn't knew it by the time i committed that change, and took the stale comment about it being mandatory too serious.) > 2) My compile directory is apparently missing the Makefile to build the > kernel. Is this just bump in the road for todays -current src? No, it's a logical consequence of the above error. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 19:10:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00706 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:10:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00694 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:10:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-31.cetlink.net [209.54.58.31]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12114; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:09:34 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:10:26 GMT Message-ID: <3485dac6.74174125@mail.cetlink.net> References: <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA00695 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:24:18 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: >> Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm >going to get. :) What's the hurry? NATD falls over on my 3.0, pretty current. I haven't had a chance yet to compare 2.2-stable. John From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 19:59:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA04053 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:59:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kaos.atext.com (kaos.atext.com [204.62.245.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04042 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:59:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kingson@geocities.com) Received: from kingson-pc.atext.com (kingson-pc [204.62.245.181]) by kaos.atext.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29531 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 19:58:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19691231160000.007e54d0@mailhost.atext.com> X-Sender: kingson@mailhost.atext.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 19:59:04 -0800 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org From: Kingson Gunawan Subject: wierd error message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am getting this message on the display whenever I log-in. inetd in realloc(): warning: junk pointer, too low to make sense. It seems to disappear after a reboot. Any idea? Kingson From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 20:16:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05711 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:16:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA05706 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:16:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA24875; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:16:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971202231658.13959@vmunix.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:16:58 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: John Kelly Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com> <3485dac6.74174125@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <3485dac6.74174125@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 04:10:26AM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 04:10:26AM +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:24:18 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" > wrote: > > >> Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going > > >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > >going to get. :) > > What's the hurry? NATD falls over on my 3.0, pretty current. I > haven't had a chance yet to compare 2.2-stable. NATD works fine for me on 2.2-STABLE. I regularily move in excess of 10GB per day across two fxp interfaces "connected" with NATD. The only problems I've ever had with NATD were when I had a 100Mb/s fxp pumping data to an de 10Mb/s card - I got interupt underflow errors, and odd things happening like transfers starting out at the full 1000K/s and slowly dieing out to 30-40K/s.. weird. Replacing the Digital card with another Intel seemed to fix it. I'm not sure if this was a pure hardware problem, or a de driver problem that couldn't deal with the amount of data the Intel card was dumping at it. At any rate, throwing in the Intel card worked, so it's almost certainly not a NATD problem. I'm curious, how/why is NATD falling over on -CURRENT?? I'm planning on setting up a 3.0 box with NATD very shortly.. -Mark > > John > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 20:26:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06350 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:26:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA06345 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 20:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA01311; Wed, 3 Dec 97 05:09:14 +0100 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 97 05:09:14 +0100 Message-Id: <9712030409.AA01311@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Emacs in a new world :-( X-Mailer: Emacs Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just rebooted after a make world, and now emacs core dumps when it starts (I am still at version 19.34). Any idea on what broke it? (probably a library change) Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 22:13:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA13311 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:13:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13304 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:13:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id WAA10181; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id NAA04785; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:21:01 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971203132059.19345@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:20:59 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <199712020726.XAA00229@rah.star-gate.com> <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 01:24:18AM -0800 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 01:24:18AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going to come out? > > Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > going to get. :) What, another 9 to 12 months? What will you do in the meantime? Greg From owner-freebsd-current Tue Dec 2 22:54:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15344 for current-outgoing; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:54:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15338 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:54:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01384; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 22:53:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712030653.WAA01384@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:20:59 +0800." <19971203132059.19345@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:53:47 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 01:24:18AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going to come out? > > > > Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > > going to get. :) > > What, another 9 to 12 months? What will you do in the meantime? > > Greg Cool, ISPs will not run SMP for a very , very long time! Great!!! Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 00:13:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA19698 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:13:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from www.giovannelli.it (www.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA19688 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:13:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (ts3port11d.masternet.it [194.184.65.169]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00312; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:12:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3485123D.C5670F1D@giovannelli.it> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:03:09 +0100 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Reply-To: gmarco@giovannelli.it X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Marc Zucconi CC: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Emacs in a new world :-( References: <9712030409.AA01311@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: > > I just rebooted after a make world, and now emacs core dumps when it > starts (I am still at version 19.34). > Any idea on what broke it? (probably a library change) It happens to me too... I haven't notice it before because I don't use it too much (xed is enough for me :-) -- Regards... Gianmarco "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www2.masternet.it From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 01:12:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23242 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23237 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:12:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA06841; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:12:30 -0800 (PST) To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:20:59 +0800." <19971203132059.19345@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:12:30 -0800 Message-ID: <6838.881140350@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, Dec 02, 1997 at 01:24:18AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going to come out? > > > > Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > > going to get. :) > > What, another 9 to 12 months? What will you do in the meantime? I'm sure we'll think of something. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 01:45:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24642 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:45:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24631 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:45:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA06964; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 01:45:25 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 22:53:47 PST." <199712030653.WAA01384@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:45:25 -0800 Message-ID: <6959.881142325@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Cool, ISPs will not run SMP for a very , very long time! > > Great!!! I'm never sure when Amancio's being sarcastic or not on account of the fact that he always talks this way but, just in case he was, let me simply say that ISPs steering clear of SMP right now is actually A Good Thing. Before we're ready to start telling customers that it's a good, cost-effective idea to purchase and operate x86/SMP systems, we need to be sure of several things: o That there are compelling performance reasons for running "typical" applications (those being web servers, interactive users, news servers, whatever) on SMP configurations, and at which number of CPUs this becomes most (and least) cost-effective. o That the SMP design and implementation has stabilized to the point where no unforseen traumas are likely to occur during the customer's tracking of the 3.0 branch (which we must, as usual, encourage). o That appropriate developer's interfaces exist for taking specific advantage of SMP, be it by way of kernel threads, mutexes or whatever mechanisms are generally the rage among SMP applications developers that week. We cannot forget the people who will be in the "first wave" of trying to make various real-world problems work faster since they'll be our staunchest advocates (or loudest detractors) if we don't provide them with all the necessary support for making SMP (and FreeBSD in general) look like a wise decision to their employer(s). In other words, let's get psyched about SMP and keep helping the likes of Steve Passe to test and improve our SMP support, but let's not jump the gun and try to "sell" this as something to be used for actual production purposes before all the proper pieces are in place and we can recommend it with real confidence in our numbers, our stability and our feature set. Getting to that stage is going to take the time it takes, and I don't predict rapid so much as steady progress on that project. And even so, for those final remaining ISPs who are in the "I don't care how dangerous it is, just let me try it for myself!" category (you know, the same ones who occasionally parachute to work and land in the parking lot or free climb the side of the building to their 8th floor offices, just to stay in practice), we have 3.0-current and the current.freebsd.org snapshot server just waiting to deliver the latest bits in a convenient selection of formats. To put it another way, if you want the release du-jour then you've got it, ready to install or upgrade you to very the latest bits. If you want one with 6 months worth of refinement and testing put into it, you wait 6 months. It's darn simple, really! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 02:45:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA28674 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:45:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA28615 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 02:44:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from max@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (max@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA18349; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:44:19 +0600 (NS) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:44:19 +0600 (NS) From: Max Khon To: Kingson Gunawan cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wierd error message In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231160000.007e54d0@mailhost.atext.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Kingson Gunawan wrote: > I am getting this message on the display whenever I log-in. > > inetd in realloc(): warning: junk pointer, too low to make sense. > > It seems to disappear after a reboot. Any idea? i'm running 2.2.5-STABLE I get this message everytime after "swap_pager: out of swap space" It seems to disappear after restarting inetd /max From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 04:03:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA03128 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:03:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA03122 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 04:02:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dyson@freebsd.org) Received: (qmail 2835 invoked from network); 3 Dec 1997 12:02:52 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO freebsd.org) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 3 Dec 1997 12:02:52 -0000 Message-ID: <34854A60.829AB149@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 12:02:40 +0000 From: "John S. Dyson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Amancio Hasty , Greg Lehey , FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <6959.881142325@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I believe that it is *critical* that we don't set up any false hopes, and extolling the virtues of half baked code is something to avoid. Some of my code has been in that category, and I hope that we have learned from those mistakes. It is okay, for example, given the state of the code, for us to say that SMP works in -current. That warns the users of the beta or even incomplete nature of the implementation. More and more, we are in the position of FreeBSD's performance and quality being "paraphrased: better than expected", but of course not perfect. I hope that we stay in that position. Perhaps we are getting more conservative, but that is probably natural given the project's maturing. One thing for sure, if we start becoming overly conservative and stagnent, I will be one to try to push things along. I tend to agree with the position that we have more time to go before 3.0 is ready... Those users who really really want SMP, kernel threads, AIO or whatever fancy new feature that is going into -current will have to realize that the code is pre-release and immature, and tracking the code will require more effort than code that is released and stabilized. Here is a case in point, I just committed a "fix" to support the MS_SYNC msync flag. The logical value for it is "0", at least a couple of commercial U**X's have chosen "0", but a couple of other free U**X's have chosen "4". The value that I chose *might* be changed, and if it is, it will have been because of good reasons. Someone using the code in production will likely not be too pleased by such a change, but we need the freedom to issue such corrections. -Current is just not ready for release, and there is alot to do for us to meet reasonable goals for 3.0. It is possible that a release could occur before *everything* is done, but that is a bridge that doesn't appear to be time to cross. John From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 06:22:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11045 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:22:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA11032 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 06:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18751 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:57:50 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA06137 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:44:34 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id PAA10214; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:19:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971203151945.56291@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:19:45 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Coda Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone take a look at this ? http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ Why is Coda promising and potentially very important? Coda is a descendant of AFS 2, and has many features that are badly needed by network filesystems, and which currently are only partly implemented in commercial products: 1.is freely available under a liberal license 2.high performance through client side persistent caching 3.server replication 4.security model for authentication, encryption and access control 5.disconnected operation for laptops 6.continued operation during partial network failures in server network 7.network bandwith adaptation 8.good scalability 9.well defined semantics of sharing, even in the presence of network failures -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 07:05:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA14165 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:05:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [148.81.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA14150 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:05:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@korin.warman.org.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23172 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:08:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:08:00 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Bootloader/kernel ignores "-a" flag... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I couldn't make it work... It simply ignores it and still keeps automatically changing root device to fd0c (I start from floppy). It's -current, ca. one week old. Andrzej Bialecki ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- abial@warman.org.pl | if(halt_per_mth > 0) { fetch("http://www.freebsd.org") } Research & Academic | "Be open-minded, but don't let your brains to fall out." Network in Poland | All of the above (and more) is just my personal opinion. ---------------------+--------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 08:59:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA24585 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:59:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from helmholtz.salk.edu (helmholtz.salk.edu [198.202.70.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA24579 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bartol@salk.edu) Received: from dale.salk.edu (dale [198.202.70.112]) by helmholtz.salk.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA18993; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:57:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:57:08 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Bartol To: Gianmarco Giovannelli cc: Jean-Marc Zucconi , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Emacs in a new world :-( In-Reply-To: <3485123D.C5670F1D@giovannelli.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm having the same problem here with emacs and xemacs. I haven't noticed anything else giving trouble. My system is running -current as of 12/1. Tom On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: > > > > I just rebooted after a make world, and now emacs core dumps when it > > starts (I am still at version 19.34). > > Any idea on what broke it? (probably a library change) > > It happens to me too... I haven't notice it before because I don't use > it too much (xed is enough for me :-) > > > -- > > Regards... > > Gianmarco > "Unix expert since yesterday" > > http://www2.masternet.it > > From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 09:17:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25956 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:17:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25938 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:17:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id EAA03912; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:06:47 +1100 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:06:47 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199712031706.EAA03912@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: abial@korin.warman.org.pl, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bootloader/kernel ignores "-a" flag... Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I couldn't make it work... It simply ignores it and still keeps >automatically changing root device to fd0c (I start from floppy). -a only works with "config kernel swap on generic" in the kernel config file. This should be the default, but it breaks "root on ...". It has nothing to do with swap. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 09:19:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA26079 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:19:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA26051; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:18:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03289; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:18:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712031718.JAA03289@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "John S. Dyson" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Greg Lehey , FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 12:02:40 GMT." <34854A60.829AB149@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 09:18:31 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I believe that it is *critical* that we don't set up any false > hopes, and extolling the virtues of half baked code is something > to avoid. Some of my code has been in that category, and I hope > that we have learned from those mistakes. It is okay, for example, > given the state of the code, for us to say that SMP works in -current. > That warns the users of the beta or even incomplete nature of the > implementation. More and more, we are in the position of FreeBSD's > performance and quality being "paraphrased: better than expected", > but of course not perfect. I hope that we stay in that position. > > Perhaps we are getting more conservative, but that is probably > natural given the project's maturing. One thing for sure, if we > start becoming overly conservative and stagnent, I will be one to > try to push things along. > > I tend to agree with the position that we have more time to go before > 3.0 is ready... Those users who really really want SMP, kernel > threads, AIO or whatever fancy new feature that is going into > -current will have to realize that the code is pre-release and > immature, and tracking the code will require more effort than code > that is released and stabilized. I am not asking to set up any false hopes rather for a target date or as some has said a target season to ensure that the project stays focus and perhaps if someone comes up with a list of known problems or goals you *may* actually get help --- that is if the project needs it. Best Regards, Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 10:03:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29514 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:03:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29507 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:03:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14728; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:03:35 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA22704; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:03:34 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:03:34 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712031803.TAA22704@bitbox.follo.net> From: Eivind Eklund To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: jak@cetlink.net's message of Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:10:26 GMT Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <1254.881054658@time.cdrom.com> <3485dac6.74174125@mail.cetlink.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:24:18 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" > wrote: > > >> Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going > > >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > >going to get. :) > > What's the hurry? NATD falls over on my 3.0, pretty current. I > haven't had a chance yet to compare 2.2-stable. Problem both places, methinks. See if the following fixes it (from aage@aage.priv.no): --- /tmp/natd.c Tue Dec 2 22:24:53 1997 +++ /usr/src/usr.sbin/natd/natd.c Wed Oct 29 22:11:32 1997 @@ -1332,7 +1332,7 @@ port = strtol (str, &end, 10); if (end != str) - return htonl (port); + return htons (port); sp = getservbyname (str, proto); if (!sp) If it does, I'll commit it - it looks correct, and I've got one other favourable report :-) Eivind. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 10:13:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00522 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00509 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:13:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05039 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:13:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712031813.KAA05039@austin.polstra.com> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 10:13:13 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please take note: the changes I put into the dynamic linker on November 29 have broken emacs. It dumps core immediately on start up. Ironically, those same changes made it possible to get the stack trace which pointed to the problem. :-O You can make emacs work again by reverting your dynamic linker to the version from November 25th. E.g., if you have the CVS repository: cd /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld cvs -q upd -Pd -D 'Nov 25' make clean cleandepend make depend make make install I will look for a fix ASAP. Sorry for the hassle in the meantime. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 10:18:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00776 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:18:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00768 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:18:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13289; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:18:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:18:29 -0500 (EST) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As you should now be aware, I've been working on some fairly heavy-handed reorganization of the lpr/lpd suite. One of the things which I'm thinking of doing may be a bit controversial, and so I'd like to know what other people think. What I'm planning on doing (or rather, have done and am planning on committing once it's tested) is to separate the actual job-printing functionality out of lpd and into a separate program which lpd execv()s as necessary to start a printer. This allows that part of the program to not occupy any memory resources while it is not being used, but does increase the memory used on machines that host active printers. I think that this will make lpr/lpd a bit cleaner, and is a worthwhile change, despite the magnitude. (I have other, even more significant changes coming.) -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 10:27:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01331 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:27:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01286 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:26:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA13952; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:24:08 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199712031824.SAA13952@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: FreeBSD User cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IIJPPP does no exit on line hangup In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 00:09:03 GMT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:24:07 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi, > > I am using user ppp to have incomming ppp connections to a machine, it > works very well. > The problem I found is that, if I disconnect the telephone line, > ppp does not exits and the line becomes unusable. > I have to kill it by hand. > If I perform a normal disconnect, everything goes ok. > > Any hint? Get the latest ppp from http://www.freebsd.org/~brian. I'm assuming you're using 2.2.2. > Regards, > > Paulo > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 10:44:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA02489 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:44:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02481 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14751; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:29:40 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199712031829.SAA14751@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 04:10:26 GMT." <3485dac6.74174125@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:29:39 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 01:24:18 -0800, "Jordan K. Hubbard" > wrote: > > >> Any guesses as to when is 3.0 -release is going > > >Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > >going to get. :) > > What's the hurry? NATD falls over on my 3.0, pretty current. I > haven't had a chance yet to compare 2.2-stable. Exactly the same - version 1.10 with a few minor cosmetic changes. How does it fall over ? Core dump ? > John -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 12:09:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08804 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:09:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08791 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:09:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA17466; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:06:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:06:10 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Tom Bartol cc: Gianmarco Giovannelli , Jean-Marc Zucconi , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Emacs in a new world :-( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Tom Bartol wrote: > > I'm having the same problem here with emacs and xemacs. I haven't noticed > anything else giving trouble. My system is running -current as of 12/1. I don't know if it means anything to you or not, but I run current, and I'm beginning to use emacs/xemacs in a big way, due to a big lisp project I have to do, and they both work fine. I've recently recompiled both, tho, when I finally began using them (the lisp environment is so damn much better if you use emacs to access CMU lisp, there's no competition). > > Tom > > > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > > > Jean-Marc Zucconi wrote: > > > > > > I just rebooted after a make world, and now emacs core dumps when it > > > starts (I am still at version 19.34). > > > Any idea on what broke it? (probably a library change) > > > > It happens to me too... I haven't notice it before because I don't use > > it too much (xed is enough for me :-) > > > > > > -- > > > > Regards... > > > > Gianmarco > > "Unix expert since yesterday" > > > > http://www2.masternet.it > > > > > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 12:37:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10928 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:37:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA10922 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xdLWf-0005vn-00; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:36:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 12:36:03 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Amancio Hasty cc: Greg Lehey , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD current users Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712030653.WAA01384@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Sometime in the spring of 1998. And that's as specific as I'm > > > going to get. :) > > > > What, another 9 to 12 months? What will you do in the meantime? > > > > Greg > > Cool, ISPs will not run SMP for a very , very long time! I guess ISPs will not be destroying files with NFS for a long time either (hopefully never, as hopefull NFS will be reliable by then). > Great!!! > Amancio Tom From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 13:18:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14075 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from moran.grauel.com (moran.grauel.com [199.233.104.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14062 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:18:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjk@moran.grauel.com) Received: (from rjk@localhost) by moran.grauel.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA14560; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:17:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:17:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712032117.QAA14560@moran.grauel.com> From: Richard J Kuhns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: John Polstra Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs In-Reply-To: <199712031813.KAA05039@austin.polstra.com> References: <199712031813.KAA05039@austin.polstra.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Polstra writes: > Please take note: the changes I put into the dynamic linker on > November 29 have broken emacs. It dumps core immediately on start up. > Ironically, those same changes made it possible to get the stack trace > which pointed to the problem. :-O > In case it helps: I just rebuilt the world last night (-current), and this morning started building and installing Xemacs-20.3, which was just released a couple of days ago. It apparently works fine, except for the following message whenever it starts: Absurd new brk addr = 0x352000 (current = 0x358000) I was going to send some mail to the xemacs maintainers, but now I think I'll wait a little longer. -- Richard Kuhns rjk@grauel.com PO Box 6249 Tel: (765)477-6000 \ 100 Sawmill Road x319 Lafayette, IN 47903 (800)489-4891 / From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 14:24:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18457 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:24:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18443 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:24:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06693; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:24:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712032224.OAA06693@austin.polstra.com> To: Richard J Kuhns cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:17:17 EST." <199712032117.QAA14560@moran.grauel.com> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:24:11 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In case it helps: It does. Thanks! > I just rebuilt the world last night (-current), and this morning > started building and installing Xemacs-20.3, which was just released > a couple of days ago. It apparently works fine, except for the > following message whenever it starts: > > Absurd new brk addr = 0x352000 (current = 0x358000) > > I was going to send some mail to the xemacs maintainers, but now I > think I'll wait a little longer. Good call. This also is most likely related to the changes I made. Sigh. Emacs and friends are doing some grossly presumptuous things. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 14:45:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19964 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:45:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mail.istar.ca (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA19918 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:44:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from echiu@majendie.com) Received: from ts25-04.vcr.istar.ca (elton-nt) [204.191.154.67] by mail.istar.ca with smtp (Exim 1.750 #3) id 0xdNY6-0002dE-00; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:45:43 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971203224609.002dd2e4@istar.ca> X-Sender: eltonc@istar.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:46:09 -0800 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org From: Elton Chiu Subject: Re: IIJPPP does no exit on line hangup Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am using user PPP from the 2.2.5 Release and have been experiencing the same problem. I didn't have this hangup problem before I upgraded my system from the 2.2-Stable (before the 2.2.5 beta release in Oct/Nov). Doesn't the 2.2.5 have the latest ppp? Regards, Elton At 06:24 PM 12/3/97 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I am using user ppp to have incomming ppp connections to a machine, it >> works very well. >> The problem I found is that, if I disconnect the telephone line, >> ppp does not exits and the line becomes unusable. >> I have to kill it by hand. >> If I perform a normal disconnect, everything goes ok. >> >> Any hint? > >Get the latest ppp from http://www.freebsd.org/~brian. I'm assuming >you're using 2.2.2. > >> Regards, >> >> Paulo >> > >-- >Brian , , > >Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... > > ########################################### # # # PGP Figerprint: 95 A0 41 3E 2F 17 93 5D # # 50 52 AA 10 F9 2C DB 28 # # # ########################################### From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 15:06:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA21303 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:06:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-57.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA21289; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:06:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id PAA08728; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:05:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:05:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712032305.PAA08728@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <34854A60.829AB149@freebsd.org> (dyson@FreeBSD.ORG) Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * From: "John S. Dyson" * I tend to agree with the position that we have more time to go before * 3.0 is ready... Those users who really really want SMP, kernel * threads, AIO or whatever fancy new feature that is going into * -current will have to realize that the code is pre-release and * immature, and tracking the code will require more effort than code * that is released and stabilized. You are absolutely right. But only problem is that there are pretty stable things (like 2-way SMP) as well as definitely work on progress stuff (AIO to pick the latest example). Since we only have one -current, we can't cut 3.0R until everything stabilizes. Which is a real shame, because we are losing the market share right now to those who already offer SMP in their releases. No, I don't know what we should do. We definitely don't want to branch the tree any further, and merging SMP into 2.2-stable is out of question. It's just frustrating to me (who's pretty much an outsider when it comes to /usr/src) to watch the 3.0 release date slip and slip while there is already quite release-quality work in there. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 15:43:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23835 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:43:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from home.dragondata.com (toasty@home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23826; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:43:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28920; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:43:12 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199712032343.RAA28920@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712032305.PAA08728@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from Satoshi Asami at "Dec 3, 97 03:05:56 pm" To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:43:11 -0600 (CST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > You are absolutely right. But only problem is that there are pretty > stable things (like 2-way SMP) as well as definitely work on progress > stuff (AIO to pick the latest example). Since we only have one > -current, we can't cut 3.0R until everything stabilizes. Which is a > real shame, because we are losing the market share right now to those > who already offer SMP in their releases. > > No, I don't know what we should do. We definitely don't want to > branch the tree any further, and merging SMP into 2.2-stable is out of > question. It's just frustrating to me (who's pretty much an outsider > when it comes to /usr/src) to watch the 3.0 release date slip and slip > while there is already quite release-quality work in there. > > Satoshi > I know you all are goint to yell at me for this, but... I am using -current on a production system. I needed SMP support, and couldn't wait, and didn't want to switch to linux. The only problem I see with what I'm doing is nfs file corruption(which is rare, and minor). I know there's a lot of code being played with, tested, etc. but it all seems stable. A -current machine is handling www.mk4.com (2,000,000+ hits per month), several shell accounts, and other heavy uses. (and it's running rc564 in the background) The only crashes I've had were from nfs locking up after it's server was rebooted, and from some bad simms.... But you are correct in assuming that you are going to lose market share by waiting. If -current hadn't been stable when I grabbed it first, I probably would have switched to linux, and probably not switched back. I've got nothing to do with development here, but I know a lot of us lowly users would *really* appreciate either a quick 3.0 release after everything that's being worked on is 'done', or something similar. The 2.2 series is really getting out of date. :) Kevin Day DragonData From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 15:54:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25034 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:54:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24973; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:54:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10099; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:54:23 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712032354.QAA10099@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 15:05:56 PST." <199712032305.PAA08728@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:54:23 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > You are absolutely right. But only problem is that there are pretty > stable things (like 2-way SMP) as well as definitely work on progress > ... > real shame, because we are losing the market share right now to those > who already offer SMP in their releases. SMP is definately NOT ready for prime-time. I'm going to be spending most of december working on it, my goal is to hash out a design for "the real thing". Some major design changes to the kernel will be necessary, there's likely to be blood on the floor b4 we're done... Tune in to smp@freebsd.org to participate in the discussions. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 16:21:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26569 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:21:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26564 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:21:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-55.cetlink.net [209.54.58.55]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06210; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:21:23 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Brian Somers Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 01:22:26 GMT Message-ID: <34860526.816624@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199712031829.SAA14751@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <199712031829.SAA14751@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA26565 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:29:39 +0000, Brian Somers wrote: >> What's the hurry? NATD falls over on my 3.0, pretty current. I >> haven't had a chance yet to compare 2.2-stable. > >Exactly the same - version 1.10 with a few minor cosmetic changes. >How does it fall over ? Core dump ? No, I get a console message about an unsupported protocol and it just stops talking to the outside world. I haven't had time to dig deeper yet. Too much to do and too little time. John From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 16:37:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27531 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:37:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27508; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:37:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xdPGx-00077d-00; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:36:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:36:04 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Kevin Day cc: Satoshi Asami , dyson@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712032343.RAA28920@home.dragondata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Kevin Day wrote: > on a production system. I needed SMP support, and couldn't wait, and didn't ... > A -current machine is handling www.mk4.com (2,000,000+ hits per month), > several shell accounts, and other heavy uses. (and it's running rc564 in the Did you need SMP support because you needed it for your particular hardware, or did you need SMP because uni-processor hardware isn't fast enough? 2 million hits a month is peanuts these days. I have a UP system that takes 30 million a month, plus a million e-mails, and it is barely at 50% utilization. I'd prefer getting multiple servers than run a risky SMP release on a single server. And no, 2.2 is not getting old yet. Remember most 24x7 sites only do upgrades twice a year (or less), and 2.2.5 hasn't been out that long. Tom From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 16:40:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27865 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:40:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27839 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-55.cetlink.net [209.54.58.55]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA07899; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:40:41 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Kevin Day Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 01:41:43 GMT Message-ID: <348708ea.1780558@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199712032343.RAA28920@home.dragondata.com> In-Reply-To: <199712032343.RAA28920@home.dragondata.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA27844 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:43:11 -0600 (CST), Kevin Day wrote: >But you are correct in assuming that you are going to lose market share by >waiting. How can you even call it a "market" when it's free? Walnut Creek is never going to become a Microsoft by selling FreeBSD CD-ROMs for $39, even if they sell a blue million of 'em. John From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 17:00:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29491 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:00:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from home.dragondata.com (toasty@home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA29454; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:59:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04570; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:59:40 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199712040059.SAA04570@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: from Tom at "Dec 3, 97 04:36:04 pm" To: tom@uniserve.com (Tom) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:59:40 -0600 (CST) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Kevin Day wrote: > > > on a production system. I needed SMP support, and couldn't wait, and didn't > ... > > A -current machine is handling www.mk4.com (2,000,000+ hits per month), > > several shell accounts, and other heavy uses. (and it's running rc564 in the > > Did you need SMP support because you needed it for your particular > hardware, or did you need SMP because uni-processor hardware isn't fast > enough? We already had SMP hardware, and it was a waste not to use it. > > 2 million hits a month is peanuts these days. I have a UP system that > takes 30 million a month, plus a million e-mails, and it is barely at 50% > utilization. > > I'd prefer getting multiple servers than run a risky SMP release on a > single server. We are adding a lot of interactive cgi's that are heavy on large databases. Doing that over NFS would be a pain, and keeping seperate copies would also be a headache. It's now on a Dual P/200. I realize a PII could probably out do it now, but they weren't out when we bought the machine, we were planning on using NT at the time. (not my idea) We initially had it on a P/100 which was outgrown quickly. Then a P/200, which also got sluggish. It couldn't keep up when there was a lot of database activity going in. We ended up taking it all out, because it caused too much trouble, and now have a somewhat boring site. :) We do use multiple servers for many things. I prefer to keep one task on one machine though. Also, for shell accounts, a dual or quad proc machine is truely best. A cluster of machines is nice for shell users, but one huge machine tends to be easier to maintain. Having multiple processors also helps to assure that if someone's eggdrop freaks out, it doesn't bring everyone totally down. (I know that's treating a software problem with hardware, and we do have a cron'ed job that checks for user owned processes taking too much cpu) I am totally impressed with the stability and speed of my SMP kernel at this stage. I know there is a lot left you guys want to do, but for me I am statisfied at this point. I know others would benefit from what's done now too, if we can get the last few quirks fixed. *cough* NFS *cough* :) An interim SMP compatible kernel release would be *great*. I don't know how that fits in the grand scheme of things, but from an outsiders view it would help. :) > > And no, 2.2 is not getting old yet. Remember most 24x7 sites only do > upgrades twice a year (or less), and 2.2.5 hasn't been out that long. > > Tom True. :) Kevin From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 17:03:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29805 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:03:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from home.dragondata.com (toasty@home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29799 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:03:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA04827; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:02:58 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199712040102.TAA04827@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <348708ea.1780558@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "Dec 4, 97 01:41:43 am" To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:02:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:43:11 -0600 (CST), Kevin Day > wrote: > > >But you are correct in assuming that you are going to lose market share by > >waiting. > > How can you even call it a "market" when it's free? Walnut Creek is > never going to become a Microsoft by selling FreeBSD CD-ROMs for $39, > even if they sell a blue million of 'em. > No. I'm not talking about Walnut Creek. :) I just mean that if there wasn't a SMP kernel available anywhere, I would have moved to Linux, and probably switched all my machines. If I didn't feel comfortable paying with experimental software, I wouldn't have tried at all, and definately gone with Linux. I'm saying that I think it would be a shame to lose FreeBSD users because of a lack of features that other OS's have, and no-one has even given a rough date that these features will be available. Kevin From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 17:03:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29843 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:03:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29814; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:03:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA12550; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:02:57 -0800 (PST) To: Tom cc: Kevin Day , Satoshi Asami , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:36:04 PST." Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:02:57 -0800 Message-ID: <12547.881197377@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > And no, 2.2 is not getting old yet. Remember most 24x7 sites only do > upgrades twice a year (or less), and 2.2.5 hasn't been out that long. No kidding - I'm still trying to get a whole bunch of folks to upgrade from 2.1 still and *might* succeed right around the time that 2.2.6 comes out (they like the .6 releases - makes them feel safer :). Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 17:24:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01784 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-57.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01717; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:23:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id RAA09223; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:23:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:23:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712040123.RAA09223@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: smp@csn.net CC: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199712032354.QAA10099@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> (message from Steve Passe on Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:54:23 -0700) Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * From: Steve Passe * SMP is definately NOT ready for prime-time. I'm going to be spending most * of december working on it, my goal is to hash out a design for "the real * thing". Some major design changes to the kernel will be necessary, there's * likely to be blood on the floor b4 we're done... Tune in to smp@freebsd.org * to participate in the discussions. Oops, sorry. Obviously my impression has been wrong. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 17:32:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02472 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:32:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02459; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from smp@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10469; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:32:08 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712040132.SAA10469@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 17:23:34 PST." <199712040123.RAA09223@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 18:32:07 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Satoshi, > * From: Steve Passe > > * SMP is definately NOT ready for prime-time. I'm going to be spending most > * of december working on it, my goal is to hash out a design for "the real > * thing". Some major design changes to the kernel will be necessary, there's > * likely to be blood on the floor b4 we're done... Tune in to smp@freebsd.org > * to participate in the discussions. > > Oops, sorry. Obviously my impression has been wrong. Perhaps I overstated the issue, I get up times of many weeks on my dual P6 here that is used as a development system. Obviously many others are also using SMP for real work. But the efficiency just isn't there yet. We would bench very poorly against a good SMP system, and thats what needs improvement b4 we go prime-time with SMP. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 18:18:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06307 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:18:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06298; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:18:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA23009; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:18:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id UAA06835; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:18:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971203201801.26750@mcs.net> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:18:01 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Tom , Kevin Day , Satoshi Asami , dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <12547.881197377@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <12547.881197377@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 05:02:57PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 05:02:57PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > And no, 2.2 is not getting old yet. Remember most 24x7 sites only do > > upgrades twice a year (or less), and 2.2.5 hasn't been out that long. > > No kidding - I'm still trying to get a whole bunch of folks to upgrade > from 2.1 still and *might* succeed right around the time that 2.2.6 > comes out (they like the .6 releases - makes them feel safer :). > > Jordan Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Nov 22 13:47:20 CST 1997 karl@Codebase.mcs.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/MCS_STANDARD CPU: Pentium Pro (199.43-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 Features=0xfbff real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 127737856 (124744K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: Correcting Natoma config for non-SMP chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x00 on pci0.7.1 de0: rev 0x22 int a irq 10 on pci0.11.0 de0: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de0: address 00:e0:29:09:96:30 ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 11 on pci0.12.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs ahc0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ahc0 bus 0 sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0: Direct-Access 2170MB (4445380 512 byte sectors) sd0: with 5899 cyls, 5 heads, and an average 150 sectors/track de1: rev 0x22 int a irq 15 on pci0.13.0 de1: SMC 9332BDT 21140A [10-100Mb/s] pass 2.2 de1: address 00:e0:29:09:95:18 vga0: rev 0x00 on pci0.14.0 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 not found at 0x280 ed1 not found at 0x300 sio0 not found at 0x3f8 sio1 not found at 0x2f8 lpt0 not found lpt1 not found fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 aha0 not found at 0x330 aic0 not found at 0x340 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface ccd0-3: Concatenated disk drivers 'Nuff said. This is a production machine. FreeBSD Mars.mcs.net 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Nov 22 13:47:20 CST 1997 karl@Codebase.mcs.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/MCS_STANDARD i386 -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 18:39:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08041 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:39:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08036 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:38:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA12128; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:38:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA22599; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:38:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:38:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199712040238.TAA22599@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Kevin Day Cc: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712040102.TAA04827@home.dragondata.com> References: <348708ea.1780558@mail.cetlink.net> <199712040102.TAA04827@home.dragondata.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just mean that if there wasn't a SMP kernel available anywhere, I would > have moved to Linux, and probably switched all my machines. Great, feel free. > If I didn't feel comfortable paying with experimental software, I wouldn't > have tried at all, and definately gone with Linux. Then why are you using Linux/SMP? > I'm saying that I think it would be a shame to lose FreeBSD users > because of a lack of features that other OS's have, and no-one has > even given a rough date that these features will be available. The people who run the 'OS of the day' aren't that critical to FreeBSD's success, since there will *always* be something that causes them to switch to another OS. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 19:14:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10896 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:14:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kithrup.com (kithrup.com [205.179.156.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10891 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:14:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@kithrup.com) Received: (from sef@localhost) by kithrup.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA18506 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:04:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:04:22 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Eric Fagan Message-Id: <199712040304.TAA18506@kithrup.com> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Heads up -- change to proc structure coming soon Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sometime soon (maybe this week, more likely this weekend), I'll be checking in the procfs-related changes I sent out last week; currently, this is to support the version of truss I've been working on. This involves a change to the proc structure, so LKM's, gdb, and ps will need to be rebuilt. It's not finished -- but I've been making changes only to truss for the past couple of weeks, and no kernel or procfs changes at all, so I think the kernel code is ready. I'll also be checking in procctl and an early version of truss (and quite possibly immediately followed by the later version of truss ;)). (This isn't to say the kernel code is finalized; I'm not sure about a couple of the things I'm doing, and there are some features I want to add.) Here is an example, for the curious, of what I've got truss doing right now -- first for a BSD "Hello, World" program, and then for the linux "ldd" binary. garth 1% obj/truss /tmp/a.out > /dev/null syscall fstat(1,0xefbfd7f8) returns 0 (0x0) syscall readlink("/etc/malloc.conf",0xefbfd7e4,63) errno 2 'No such file or directory' syscall mmap(0x0,4096,0x3,0x1002,-1) returns 134254592 (0x8009000) syscall break(0xc000) returns 0 (0x0) syscall break(0x1c000) returns 0 (0x0) syscall ioctl(0x1,0x402c7413,0xefbfd834) returns 0 (0x0) syscall write(1,0xc000,13) returns 13 (0xd) syscall exit(0x0) process exit, rval = 0 garth 2% obj/truss /usr/compat/linux/usr/bin/ldd > /dev/null syscall linux_personality(0x0) returns 0 (0x0) syscall linux_brk(0x0) returns 134299648 (0x8014000) syscall linux_brk(0x8017000) returns 134311936 (0x8017000) syscall linux_brk(0x8018000) returns 134316032 (0x8018000) syscall linux_open("/usr/share/locale/C/LC_MESSAGES",0,016234672457) errno -2 'No such file or directory' syscall linux_brk(0x8019000) returns 134320128 (0x8019000) syscall linux_newstat("/etc/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) errno -2 'No such file or directory' syscall linux_newstat("/usr/lib/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) errno -2 'No such file or directory' syscall linux_newstat("/usr/lib/locale/libc/C",0xefbfd170) errno -2 'No such file or directory' syscall linux_newstat("/usr/share/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) errno -2 'No such file or directory' syscall linux_newstat("/usr/local/share/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) errno -2 'No such file or directory' syscall linux_newfstat(1,0xefbfc7e0) returns 0 (0x0) syscall linux_brk(0x8029000) returns 134385664 (0x8029000) syscall linux_ioctl(0x1,0x5401,0xefbfc7a4) returns 0 (0x0) syscall write(1,0x8019000,54) returns 54 (0x36) syscall exit(0x0) process exit, rval = 0 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 19:23:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11571 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11558 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02466; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:22:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712040322.TAA02466@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Nate Williams cc: Kevin Day , jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:38:51 MST." <199712040238.TAA22599@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:22:46 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The people who run the 'OS of the day' aren't that critical to FreeBSD's > success, since there will *always* be something that causes them to > switch to another OS. Lets assume that you are right, what is then critical to FreeBSD's success? Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 19:26:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11733 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:26:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11727 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:26:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22884; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:26:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd022820; Wed Dec 3 20:26:32 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA00765; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:26:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712040326.UAA00765@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Coda To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:26:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971203151945.56291@deepo.prosa.dk> from "Philippe Regnauld" at Dec 3, 97 03:19:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyone take a look at this ? > > http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu/ > > Why is Coda promising and potentially very important? | [ ...] IS KNOWN TO HAVE | BUGS, SOME OF WHICH MAY HAVE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES. CARNEGIE | MELLON ALLOWS FREE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE IN ITS "AS IS" CONDITION. | CARNEGIE MELLON DISCLAIMS ANY LIABILITY OF ANY KIND FOR ANY | DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FROM THE USE OF | THIS SOFTWARE OR OF ANY DERIVATIVE WORK. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 19:34:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA12339 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:34:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12311; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04059; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:43:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd004040; Wed Dec 3 20:43:10 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01191; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:33:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712040333.UAA01191@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:33:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, dyson@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712040132.SAA10469@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> from "Steve Passe" at Dec 3, 97 06:32:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Perhaps I overstated the issue, I get up times of many weeks on my dual P6 > here that is used as a development system. Obviously many others are also > using SMP for real work. But the efficiency just isn't there yet. We > would bench very poorly against a good SMP system, and thats what needs > improvement b4 we go prime-time with SMP. Luckily we only have to compete against Solaris and UnixWare, and not good SMP systems... Dynix doesn't run on commodity hardware, and neither does Unisys's SVR4.0.2 ES/MP (which did the locking the right way instead of the Solaris/SVR4 way). And SMP SunOS 4.1.3 isn't widely sold, and where it is, it's mostly Japan and Bay Area ISP's, and then only on SPARC hardware... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 19:45:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA13352 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:45:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA13337 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:45:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id WAA00188; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:45:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199712040345.WAA00188@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712040238.TAA22599@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 3, 97 07:38:51 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:45:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@freebsd.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams said: > > I just mean that if there wasn't a SMP kernel available anywhere, I would > > have moved to Linux, and probably switched all my machines. > > Great, feel free. > Let's all try to be kinder and gentler. We all understand that SMP is an important feature, but also we shouldn't be inviting people away :-(. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 19:55:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14336 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:55:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14323 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:54:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08867 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:54:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712040354.TAA08867@austin.polstra.com> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed ; boundary="===_0_Wed_Dec__3_19:53:43_PST_1997" Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:54:50 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a multipart MIME message. --===_0_Wed_Dec__3_19:53:43_PST_1997 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have diagnosed this problem and it is a bug in emacs. Toward the end of the build process, emacs writes its own pre-initialized executable using code that is in "src/unexsunos4.c". The executable that it generates is invalid because the "_edata" and "_end" symbols have the wrong values. However, emacs is so ubiquitous that I worked hard to find a work-around in the dynamic linker. I don't want every emacs user to have to rebuild emacs, if that can be avoided. I now have a work-around which I believe solves the problem without other bad side effects. I will test it tonight on make world and commit it tomorrow morning if no problems show up. For those of you who are desperate, I'm attaching a patch. Apply it to the -current version of "src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/rtld.c", version 1.50. It will make emacs work again. Xemacs doesn't have the bug, and it works OK. But it nevertheless produces a warning about an "Absurd new brk addr". The warning is harmless. I can't get rid of the warning in the dynamic linker, but soon I will commit a patch to the xemacs port that eliminates it. Thanks for your patience with this problem. Luckily, emacs users are much more patient than vi users like me. They have to be very patient to tolerate all that CTRL-ESC-ALT-SHIFT-x bullshit that emacs demands. ;-) ;-) ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist ... John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth --===_0_Wed_Dec__3_19:53:43_PST_1997 Content-Type: application/x-patch Content-Description: rtld.patch Index: rtld.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld/rtld.c,v retrieving revision 1.50 diff -u -r1.50 rtld.c --- rtld.c 1997/11/29 03:32:47 1.50 +++ rtld.c 1997/12/04 03:23:00 @@ -234,7 +234,7 @@ static void reloc_copy __P((struct so_map *)); static void init_dag __P((struct so_map *)); static void init_sods __P((struct so_list *)); -static void init_internal_malloc __P((struct _dynamic *)); +static void init_internal_malloc __P((void)); static void init_external_malloc __P((void)); static int call_map __P((struct so_map *, char *)); static char *findhint __P((char *, int, int *)); @@ -347,7 +347,7 @@ crtp->crt_dp->d_entry = &ld_entry; /* _DYNAMIC */ /* Initialize our internal malloc package. */ - init_internal_malloc(crtp->crt_dp); + init_internal_malloc(); /* Setup out (private) environ variable */ environ = crtp->crt_ep; @@ -2230,26 +2230,32 @@ * main program's sbrk arena. */ static void -init_internal_malloc(dp) - struct _dynamic *dp; +init_internal_malloc __P((void)) { - struct so_map tmp_map; - struct somap_private map_private; - struct nzlist *np; + const struct exec *hdr; /* * Before anything calls sbrk or brk, we have to initialize - * its idea of the current break level to the main program's - * "_end" symbol, rather than that of the dynamic linker. In - * order to do that, we need to look up the value of the main - * program's "_end" symbol. We set up a temporary link map - * entry for the main program so that we can do the lookup. + * its idea of the current break level to just beyond the main + * program's address space. Strictly speaking, the right + * way to do that is to look up the value of "_end" in the + * application's run time symbol table. + * + * That is what we used to do, and it works correctly for + * every valid program. Unfortunately, it doesn't work right + * for "unexec"ed versions of emacs. They are incorrectly + * generated with a wrong value for "_end". (xemacs gets it + * right.) + * + * To work around this, we peek at the exec header to get the + * sizes of the text, data, and bss segments. Luckily, the + * header is in memory at the start of the first mapped page. + * From the segment sizes, we can calculate a proper initial + * value for the break level. */ - init_link_map(&tmp_map, &map_private, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, dp); - np = lookup_in_obj(END_SYM, sym_hash(END_SYM), &tmp_map, 1); - if (np == NULL) - errx(1, "Main program has no symbol \"%s\"", END_SYM); - rtld_alloc_lev = curbrk = minbrk = (char *)np->nz_value; + hdr = (const struct exec *)PAGSIZ; + rtld_alloc_lev = curbrk = minbrk = + (char *)PAGSIZ + hdr->a_text + hdr->a_data + hdr->a_bss; } /* @@ -2265,6 +2271,13 @@ * already done. */ *(char **)(sym_addr(CURBRK_SYM)) = curbrk; + + /* + * Set the minimum break level too. Otherwise, "unexec"ed + * emacs sets the break too low and wipes out our tables of + * shared objects. + */ + *(char **)(sym_addr(MINBRK_SYM)) = curbrk; /* * Set up pointers to the program's allocation functions, so --===_0_Wed_Dec__3_19:53:43_PST_1997-- From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 19:58:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14702 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:58:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14696 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:58:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08901; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:58:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712040358.TAA08901@austin.polstra.com> To: wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... In-Reply-To: <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> References: <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 19:58:31 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>, Garrett Wollman wrote: > What I'm planning on doing (or rather, have done and am planning on > committing once it's tested) is to separate the actual job-printing > functionality out of lpd and into a separate program which lpd > execv()s as necessary to start a printer. This allows that part of > the program to not occupy any memory resources while it is not being > used, but does increase the memory used on machines that host active > printers. Sounds good to me. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 20:01:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15017 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14996 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:01:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA17914; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:28:58 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199712040028.AAA17914@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Elton Chiu cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IIJPPP does no exit on line hangup In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:46:09 PST." <2.2.32.19971203224609.002dd2e4@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 00:28:58 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > I am using user PPP from the 2.2.5 Release and have been experiencing the > same problem. > > I didn't have this hangup problem before I upgraded my system from the > 2.2-Stable > (before the 2.2.5 beta release in Oct/Nov). Hmm, the hangup code was quite broken until just before the 2.2.5 release - I spent a lot of time with this 'till I eventually got a hold of a second modem. Just after 2.2.5, I added some diagnostics to the ModemTimeout routine that check carrier. I also added some stuff to the FAQ (http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/userppp.html). It's worth looking at the FAQ, and if you still have no joy, get the latest version from http://www.freebsd.org/~brian, enable debug logging (set log +debug) and fgrep for the "ModemTimeout" stuff. You should see your carrier status reported rather frequently. You modem's probably faking carrier, and now that LQR is disabled by default, nothing's there to notice the line's dead. > Doesn't the 2.2.5 have the latest ppp? It did at the time (bar M$-CHAP - it was too late to get a working solution for the DES inclusion). It's now hopelessly out of date - the most noticable (functional) changes being the security model, the phase transition code and now, the DEFLATE support. > Regards, > Elton -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 20:04:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15436 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:04:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15430 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:04:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from koshy@india.hp.com) Received: from postbox.india.hp.com (postbox.india.hp.com [15.10.45.1]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id UAA07892 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:04:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712040404.UAA07892@palrel1.hp.com> Received: from localhost by postbox.india.hp.com with ESMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA158127821; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:27:01 +0530 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: -pthread / popen() problem? Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:27:00 +0530 From: A Joseph Koshy Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk `popen(3)' and -pthread seem to have a problem working together. Symptoms: (foo) $ cat a.c #include char buf[1024]; int main(int ac, char **av) { FILE *x; int c = 0; sprintf(buf, "/bin/cat %s", av[1]); if (x = popen(buf, "r")) { while(fgets(buf, 1024, x) != NULL) c++; printf("%d\n", c); } else { printf("open failed\n"); } } (foo) $ cc -pthread a.c && ./a.out /etc/termcap 0 cat: stdout: Resource temporarily unavailable <-- ``0''??? [the error message is seen intermittently on stderr] (foo) $ ./a.out /dev/zero 0 <-- ??? (foo) $ However, (foo) $ cc a.c && ./a.out /etc/termcap 4126 (foo) $ ./a.out /dev/zero ^C # <-- interrupted from the keyboard (foo) $ ./a.out /dev/null 0 (foo) $ I.e. it works perfectly for non threaded compiles. I saw this problem when looking into why Python (1.4) was failing on -current. (foo) $ python1.4 # <-- from the precompiled package Python 1.4 (Jul 18 1997) [GCC 2.7.2.1] Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam >>> import os >>> x=os.popen('/bin/cat /etc/termcap') >>> cat: stdout: Resource temporarily unavailable [program misbehaves from this point] (foo) $ ldd /usr/local/bin/python1.4 /usr/local/bin/python1.4: -lm.2 => /usr/lib/libm.so.2.0 (0x20054000) -lcrypt.2 => /usr/lib/libcrypt.so.2.0 (0x2006f000) -lc_r.3 => /usr/lib/libc_r.so.3.0 (0x20072000) -lc.3 => /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0 (0x200fd000) Koshy #include STD_DISCLAIMER From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 20:10:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15964 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:10:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from home.dragondata.com (toasty@home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15949 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:10:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA16845; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:09:56 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199712040409.WAA16845@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712040238.TAA22599@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Dec 3, 97 07:38:51 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:09:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: jak@cetlink.net, current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I just mean that if there wasn't a SMP kernel available anywhere, I would > > have moved to Linux, and probably switched all my machines. > > Great, feel free. > > > If I didn't feel comfortable paying with experimental software, I wouldn't > > have tried at all, and definately gone with Linux. > > Then why are you using Linux/SMP? I like FreeBSD. It's safe. It's secure. It's fast. Initially when running a DALnet irc server, i used linux. It leaked memory, had numerous networking problems, and was slow. Switching to FreeBSD was like night and day. I couldn't believe the difference. I do have one Linux machine now, because the FreeBSD doesn't run on an alpha yet. As soon as it is available, I'll move it over. I'm saying that if I was forced to run Linux on one of my more major machines, I'd probably switch things over to be consistant. The one alpha I do have is running Linux, and is completely stand alone.... > > > I'm saying that I think it would be a shame to lose FreeBSD users > > because of a lack of features that other OS's have, and no-one has > > even given a rough date that these features will be available. > > The people who run the 'OS of the day' aren't that critical to FreeBSD's > success, since there will *always* be something that causes them to > switch to another OS. > > > Nate > No, but consider someone who hasn't made up their mind yet, and knows little/none about the current OS'es out there. The point I'm trying to make is that it would, in my mind, help things considerably if there was in interim (beta, maybe?) release of 3.0, with the warning that it's not done. Kevin From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 20:20:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16848 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:20:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16835 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03689; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:15:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd003684; Wed Dec 3 20:15:26 1997 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:13:03 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Garrett Wollman cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... In-Reply-To: <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As lpr/lpd are not likely to be coming from another project in a new form, I guess you van make improvements like this.. make sure the Man page is VERY CLEAR about anything non standard.. What about lp-ng? On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Garrett Wollman wrote: > As you should now be aware, I've been working on some fairly > heavy-handed reorganization of the lpr/lpd suite. One of the things > which I'm thinking of doing may be a bit controversial, and so I'd > like to know what other people think. > > What I'm planning on doing (or rather, have done and am planning on > committing once it's tested) is to separate the actual job-printing > functionality out of lpd and into a separate program which lpd > execv()s as necessary to start a printer. This allows that part of > the program to not occupy any memory resources while it is not being > used, but does increase the memory used on machines that host active > printers. > > I think that this will make lpr/lpd a bit cleaner, and is a worthwhile > change, despite the magnitude. (I have other, even more significant > changes coming.) > > -GAWollman > > -- > Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same > wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom > Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame > MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick > From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 20:20:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16912 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:20:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16881 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 20:20:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01511; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:45:31 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712040415.OAA01511@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Q] Current as of dec,. 2nd, questions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Dec 1997 02:39:29 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:45:30 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I apparently had to much to much free time on my hands today > and decided, out of boredom, to cvsup current. > I was shocked to find that buildworl actually finished :) with no > problems. Buildworld doesn't install anything. > My questions come down to config, on a new -current SMP kernel. > > 1) And i'm not real concerned with this one, # config OPSYS > Removing old directory ../../compile/OPSYS: Done. > files.i386: i386/isa/npx.c must be optional or standard You should be; this is an indication of your problem. > npx is in my Kernel config file. So i figure its just a minor glitch. > Am i wrong or is this going to blow up after i fix problem 2? > > 2) My compile directory is apparently missing the Makefile to build the > kernel. Is this just bump in the road for todays -current src? No. It's missing because it's meant to be generated by config, but the error in 1) is config blowing chunks and not producing stuff. You have to run the installworld phase (or at least use the new config) before you can generate your new kernel. mike From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 22:02:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24092 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:02:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24082 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:01:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA19642; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:00:58 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199712040600.IAA19642@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712040132.SAA10469@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> from Steve Passe at "Dec 3, 97 06:32:07 pm" To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:00:58 +0200 (SAT) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Perhaps I overstated the issue, I get up times of many weeks on my dual P6 > here that is used as a development system. Obviously many others are also > using SMP for real work. But the efficiency just isn't there yet. We > would bench very poorly against a good SMP system, and thats what needs > improvement b4 we go prime-time with SMP. What about smaller steps? Stabilize the current SMP code and make a release with it (3.0) and then put the next stuff (threaded kernel, removal of the single kernel lock, etc.) in a next release. That way we have shorter release cycles and more people can get exposed to the new features that is currently in -current. I mean, there is nothing that say our first SMP release should be the ultimate one, is there? And the -current SMP code (minus a little bug here and there maybe :-)) is already very usefull to people with processor intensive apps. (It made a huge difference on the ZA-UNINET news router/web proxy machines, which has been running it for 6+ months now.) Well just a thought. PS. It does seem that we find most of our bugs just after a release, so in that sense it would also be good to have shorter release cycles. :-))) John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 22:20:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25263 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:20:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25252; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:20:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id BAA07577; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:21:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971204012151.06527@vmunix.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:21:51 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Terry Lambert Cc: Steve Passe , asami@cs.berkeley.edu, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <199712040132.SAA10469@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> <199712040333.UAA01191@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712040333.UAA01191@usr09.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 03:33:52AM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 03:33:52AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Perhaps I overstated the issue, I get up times of many weeks on my dual P6 > > here that is used as a development system. Obviously many others are also > > using SMP for real work. But the efficiency just isn't there yet. We > > would bench very poorly against a good SMP system, and thats what needs > > improvement b4 we go prime-time with SMP. > > Luckily we only have to compete against Solaris and UnixWare, and not > good SMP systems... Dynix doesn't run on commodity hardware, and > neither does Unisys's SVR4.0.2 ES/MP (which did the locking the right > way instead of the Solaris/SVR4 way). And SMP SunOS 4.1.3 isn't > widely sold, and where it is, it's mostly Japan and Bay Area ISP's, > and then only on SPARC hardware... Out of curiosity, has anyone tested Linux on an Intel SMP system? How far along are they? I was going to buy a dual processor system myself to play with this stuff, but I've decided to hold off and wait for the Alphas to drop in price just a little instead (after the Pentium F00F bug, I really want to try a non-intel system..). Also, could someone summarize the current problems with SMP and NFS? Or are they "unknown" at this point in the game? I might be able to talk Rick Macklem into lending a hand. He's been hinting that he might try some SMP stuff soon, if there is a problem with SMP and NFS I might be able to convince him that it's crucial to his NFS code :-) Of course, he'd have to stop using his microVAX for a while.... -Mark > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 23:08:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27911 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:08:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27905 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:08:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18655; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:11:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712040711.XAA18655@implode.root.com> To: John Hay cc: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe), FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Dec 1997 08:00:58 +0200." <199712040600.IAA19642@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:11:17 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Perhaps I overstated the issue, I get up times of many weeks on my dual P6 >> here that is used as a development system. Obviously many others are also >> using SMP for real work. But the efficiency just isn't there yet. We >> would bench very poorly against a good SMP system, and thats what needs >> improvement b4 we go prime-time with SMP. > >What about smaller steps? Stabilize the current SMP code and make a >release with it (3.0) and then put the next stuff (threaded kernel, >removal of the single kernel lock, etc.) in a next release. That >way we have shorter release cycles and more people can get exposed >to the new features that is currently in -current. I mean, there is >nothing that say our first SMP release should be the ultimate one, >is there? Actually, there is, sort of. The problem is that a large number of people will be evaluating FreeBSD/SMP when it is released, and if the performance sucks, this is what magazine reviewers will say and is what people will remember. It's too important of a feature to have working poorly in the first release. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 23:30:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29118 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:30:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29112 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:30:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04625; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:31:18 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712040731.IAA04625@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Heads up -- change to proc structure coming soon In-Reply-To: <199712040304.TAA18506@kithrup.com> from Sean Eric Fagan at "Dec 3, 97 07:04:22 pm" To: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:31:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Sean Eric Fagan who wrote: Cool!! go ahead !! > Sometime soon (maybe this week, more likely this weekend), I'll be checking > in the procfs-related changes I sent out last week; currently, this is to > support the version of truss I've been working on. This involves a change > to the proc structure, so LKM's, gdb, and ps will need to be rebuilt. > > It's not finished -- but I've been making changes only to truss for the past > couple of weeks, and no kernel or procfs changes at all, so I think the > kernel code is ready. I'll also be checking in procctl and an early version > of truss (and quite possibly immediately followed by the later version of > truss ;)). (This isn't to say the kernel code is finalized; I'm not > sure about a couple of the things I'm doing, and there are some features I > want to add.) > > Here is an example, for the curious, of what I've got truss doing right now > -- first for a BSD "Hello, World" program, and then for the linux "ldd" > binary. > > garth 1% obj/truss /tmp/a.out > /dev/null > syscall fstat(1,0xefbfd7f8) > returns 0 (0x0) > syscall readlink("/etc/malloc.conf",0xefbfd7e4,63) > errno 2 'No such file or directory' > syscall mmap(0x0,4096,0x3,0x1002,-1) > returns 134254592 (0x8009000) > syscall break(0xc000) > returns 0 (0x0) > syscall break(0x1c000) > returns 0 (0x0) > syscall ioctl(0x1,0x402c7413,0xefbfd834) > returns 0 (0x0) > syscall write(1,0xc000,13) > returns 13 (0xd) > syscall exit(0x0) > process exit, rval = 0 > garth 2% obj/truss /usr/compat/linux/usr/bin/ldd > /dev/null > syscall linux_personality(0x0) > returns 0 (0x0) > syscall linux_brk(0x0) > returns 134299648 (0x8014000) > syscall linux_brk(0x8017000) > returns 134311936 (0x8017000) > syscall linux_brk(0x8018000) > returns 134316032 (0x8018000) > syscall linux_open("/usr/share/locale/C/LC_MESSAGES",0,016234672457) > errno -2 'No such file or directory' > syscall linux_brk(0x8019000) > returns 134320128 (0x8019000) > syscall linux_newstat("/etc/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) > errno -2 'No such file or directory' > syscall linux_newstat("/usr/lib/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) > errno -2 'No such file or directory' > syscall linux_newstat("/usr/lib/locale/libc/C",0xefbfd170) > errno -2 'No such file or directory' > syscall linux_newstat("/usr/share/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) > errno -2 'No such file or directory' > syscall linux_newstat("/usr/local/share/locale/C/libc.cat",0xefbfd170) > errno -2 'No such file or directory' > syscall linux_newfstat(1,0xefbfc7e0) > returns 0 (0x0) > syscall linux_brk(0x8029000) > returns 134385664 (0x8029000) > syscall linux_ioctl(0x1,0x5401,0xefbfc7a4) > returns 0 (0x0) > syscall write(1,0x8019000,54) > returns 54 (0x36) > syscall exit(0x0) > process exit, rval = 0 > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 23:36:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29634 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:36:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29622 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:36:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@Haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA17162; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:34:45 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:34:44 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Nate Williams cc: Kevin Day , John Kelly , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712040238.TAA22599@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Nate Williams wrote: > > I just mean that if there wasn't a SMP kernel available anywhere, I would > > have moved to Linux, and probably switched all my machines. > > Great, feel free. Hey! I though he said that he is running -current on the SMP machine? > > > If I didn't feel comfortable paying with experimental software, I wouldn't > > have tried at all, and definately gone with Linux. > > Then why are you using Linux/SMP? But he is not! He is using FreeBSD-current... > > > I'm saying that I think it would be a shame to lose FreeBSD users > > because of a lack of features that other OS's have, and no-one has > > even given a rough date that these features will be available. > > The people who run the 'OS of the day' aren't that critical to FreeBSD's > success, since there will *always* be something that causes them to > switch to another OS. > Hmmm... > > Nate > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 23:38:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29849 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:38:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29829 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:38:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA21468; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:37:57 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199712040737.JAA21468@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712040711.XAA18655@implode.root.com> from David Greenman at "Dec 3, 97 11:11:17 pm" To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:37:57 +0200 (SAT) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Perhaps I overstated the issue, I get up times of many weeks on my dual P6 > >> here that is used as a development system. Obviously many others are also > >> using SMP for real work. But the efficiency just isn't there yet. We > >> would bench very poorly against a good SMP system, and thats what needs > >> improvement b4 we go prime-time with SMP. > > > >What about smaller steps? Stabilize the current SMP code and make a > >release with it (3.0) and then put the next stuff (threaded kernel, > >removal of the single kernel lock, etc.) in a next release. That > >way we have shorter release cycles and more people can get exposed > >to the new features that is currently in -current. I mean, there is > >nothing that say our first SMP release should be the ultimate one, > >is there? > > Actually, there is, sort of. The problem is that a large number of people > will be evaluating FreeBSD/SMP when it is released, and if the performance > sucks, this is what magazine reviewers will say and is what people will > remember. It's too important of a feature to have working poorly in the > first release. Ok, but how do we measure it, so that we can know when we get there? (I don't think it is realistic to expect that we will half the time that make world takes, except maybe if we throw lots of disks and controllers at it, for instance.) And how bad do we do at the moment? Things that are more processor intensive than syscall intensive like rc564, do get almost full speed out of the CPUs, so if that were a measurement we could ship now. :-) John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-current Wed Dec 3 23:58:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA00991 for current-outgoing; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:58:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA00981 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 23:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA19332; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:01:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712040801.AAA19332@implode.root.com> To: John Hay cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Dec 1997 09:37:57 +0200." <199712040737.JAA21468@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 00:01:22 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Perhaps I overstated the issue, I get up times of many weeks on my dual P6 >> >> here that is used as a development system. Obviously many others are also >> >> using SMP for real work. But the efficiency just isn't there yet. We >> >> would bench very poorly against a good SMP system, and thats what needs >> >> improvement b4 we go prime-time with SMP. >> > >> >What about smaller steps? Stabilize the current SMP code and make a >> >release with it (3.0) and then put the next stuff (threaded kernel, >> >removal of the single kernel lock, etc.) in a next release. That >> >way we have shorter release cycles and more people can get exposed >> >to the new features that is currently in -current. I mean, there is >> >nothing that say our first SMP release should be the ultimate one, >> >is there? >> >> Actually, there is, sort of. The problem is that a large number of people >> will be evaluating FreeBSD/SMP when it is released, and if the performance >> sucks, this is what magazine reviewers will say and is what people will >> remember. It's too important of a feature to have working poorly in the >> first release. > >Ok, but how do we measure it, so that we can know when we get there? >(I don't think it is realistic to expect that we will half the time >that make world takes, except maybe if we throw lots of disks and >controllers at it, for instance.) And how bad do we do at the moment? >Things that are more processor intensive than syscall intensive like >rc564, do get almost full speed out of the CPUs, so if that were a >measurement we could ship now. :-) What we have now is pretty bad for just about everything and might actually be slower on a two CPU machine for things that spend their time mostly in the kernel (like Internet servers). There are two things that need to be done: locks need to be pushed down so that we have at least per-subsystem locking (networking, filesystems, VM system, etc), and we need to rewrite the scheduler for process affinity. With those two things working reliably, I would consider the SMP implementation not finished, but releasable as a first cut. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 01:04:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA04853 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:04:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (ns.san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA04845 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:04:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dt051n19.san.rr.com (dt051n19.san.rr.com [204.210.32.25]) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA02517; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:01:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712040901.BAA02517@mail.san.rr.com> From: "Studded" To: "dg@root.com" Cc: "FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 01:00:40 -0800 Reply-To: "Studded" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 04 Dec 1997 00:01:22 -0800, David Greenman wrote: > What we have now is pretty bad for just about everything and might >actually be slower on a two CPU machine for things that spend their >time mostly in the kernel (like Internet servers). There are two things >that need to be done: locks need to be pushed down so that we have at >least per-subsystem locking (networking, filesystems, VM system, etc), >and we need to rewrite the scheduler for process affinity. With those >two things working reliably, I would consider the SMP implementation not >finished, but releasable as a first cut. During the 2.2.5-Beta cycle some ideas like this were kicked around, but discussion was put on hold. Is it possible to put this on a more formal schedule? I think we would gain a lot by coming out with a "practice release" of -Current that has known bugs/conflicts ironed out, and SMP code that at least wasn't likely to make things worse. :) I know several adventurous people that would put SMP code on production machines if they had a reasonable assurance that it would be (at least mostly) stable. We could use the feedback from people who are using the thing in a production environment, and garner some good pre-publicity. I'm sure I'm not saying anything new, my point is simply that this would be a well-received project. :) I think we can all see the SMP writing on the wall, it would be nice to be ahead of the curve. Doug *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 4,168 clients and still growing. :-) *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) *** Part of the DALnet IRC network *** From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 01:18:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05544 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:18:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA05523 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:18:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07582; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:16:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Garrett Wollman cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 13:18:29 EST." <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:16:18 +0100 Message-ID: <7580.881226978@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>, Garrett Wollman write s: >What I'm planning on doing (or rather, have done and am planning on >committing once it's tested) is to separate the actual job-printing >functionality out of lpd and into a separate program which lpd >execv()s as necessary to start a printer. This allows that part of >the program to not occupy any memory resources while it is not being >used, but does increase the memory used on machines that host active >printers. Question: will the interface between lpd and this program be an internal one, or a officially supported interface ? Will this be for instance where we will plug in ghostscript or a bidirectional communication postscript driver in the future ? I would be really neat if we simply changed it to have a generic queing frontend, to which you could submit files and processing directives, a queue manager which will take care of submitting one job at a time, in right priority/order and so on, and then configurable backends to do the job. That would allow the backend to du many other things than just printing. Can you say "job-queue" :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 01:21:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05917 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:21:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA05903 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07663; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:19:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: John Polstra cc: Richard J Kuhns , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 14:24:11 PST." <199712032224.OAA06693@austin.polstra.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:19:30 +0100 Message-ID: <7661.881227170@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712032224.OAA06693@austin.polstra.com>, John Polstra writes: >> I just rebuilt the world last night (-current), and this morning >> started building and installing Xemacs-20.3, which was just released >> a couple of days ago. It apparently works fine, except for the >> following message whenever it starts: >> >> Absurd new brk addr = 0x352000 (current = 0x358000) >> >> I was going to send some mail to the xemacs maintainers, but now I >> think I'll wait a little longer. > >Good call. This also is most likely related to the changes I made. >Sigh. Emacs and friends are doing some grossly presumptuous things. Emacs may think that it has a monopoly on calling sbrk() that would be bad :-( -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 01:40:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07031 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:40:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07026 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA14643; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:40:17 -0800 (PST) To: Kevin Day cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 22:09:55 CST." <199712040409.WAA16845@home.dragondata.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 01:40:17 -0800 Message-ID: <14639.881228417@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > No, but consider someone who hasn't made up their mind yet, and knows > little/none about the current OS'es out there. The point I'm trying to make > is that it would, in my mind, help things considerably if there was in > interim (beta, maybe?) release of 3.0, with the warning that it's not done. How is that any different than a snapshot? We even offer them on CD. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 02:00:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08322 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:00:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi (ari@kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi [194.197.169.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08316 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:00:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ari@kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi) Received: from localhost (ari@localhost) by kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00376; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:00:14 +0200 (EET) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:00:13 +0200 (EET) From: Ari Suutari To: Eivind Eklund cc: John Kelly , jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712031803.TAA22704@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > Problem both places, methinks. See if the following fixes it (from > aage@aage.priv.no): > > --- /tmp/natd.c Tue Dec 2 22:24:53 1997 > +++ /usr/src/usr.sbin/natd/natd.c Wed Oct 29 22:11:32 1997 > @@ -1332,7 +1332,7 @@ > > port = strtol (str, &end, 10); > if (end != str) > - return htonl (port); > + return htons (port); > > sp = getservbyname (str, proto); > if (!sp) > > If it does, I'll commit it - it looks correct, and I've got one other > favourable report :-) > > Eivind. > Hi, After making this change, it no longer worked on 2.2, I guess that it won't work on 3.0 either (I didn't have time to check it any futher, I just tried it). Ari Lappeenranta, Finland From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 02:25:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA09568 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:25:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA09557 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:25:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08108 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:23:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: current@freebsd.org Subject: weird current behaviour... From: Poul-Henning Kamp Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:23:17 +0100 Message-ID: <8106.881230997@critter.freebsd.dk> Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Network: machine-A en0 ------------ en0 machine-B de0 fxp0 | \ | ----------------- de0 machine-C | hub ----- machine-D | | ed0 machine-E These two cases: 1. ping from A to E 2. ping from A to D I see the round-trip time flutter from 9msec to 70 msec... Every other path the round-trip time is OK, including confusingly enough: from E to A from D to A from B&C to E from B&C to D What gives ? Is the if_de driver broken somehow ? Does anybody else see this ? Machine-A is a PR440FX motherboard with 2xP6/233 running current-SMP. I have tried two different de0 cards and both does this. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 02:58:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11550 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:58:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11542 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:58:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08235 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:56:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: weird current behaviour... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:23:17 +0100." <8106.881230997@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:56:30 +0100 Message-ID: <8233.881232990@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk More data... If I don't run the two rc564 processes, then this phenomena goes away. I still don't understand why I see it on the de0 but not on the fxp0 or en0 interface... Poul-Henning In message <8106.881230997@critter.freebsd.dk>, Poul-Henning Kamp writes: > >Network: > > machine-A en0 ------------ en0 machine-B > de0 fxp0 > | \ > | ----------------- de0 machine-C > | > hub ----- machine-D > | > | > ed0 > machine-E > > >These two cases: > >1. ping from A to E >2. ping from A to D > >I see the round-trip time flutter from 9msec to 70 msec... > >Every other path the round-trip time is OK, including confusingly >enough: > > from E to A > from D to A > from B&C to E > from B&C to D > >What gives ? > >Is the if_de driver broken somehow ? > >Does anybody else see this ? > >Machine-A is a PR440FX motherboard with 2xP6/233 running current-SMP. > >I have tried two different de0 cards and both does this. > >-- >Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member >phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 03:35:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13681 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:35:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13676 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:35:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29921; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:12:32 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA07607; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:59:19 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id MAA20316; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:34:19 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971204123419.09270@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:34:19 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: dg@root.com Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <199712040600.IAA19642@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> <199712040711.XAA18655@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199712040711.XAA18655@implode.root.com>; from David Greenman on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 11:11:17PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk David Greenman writes: > > Actually, there is, sort of. The problem is that a large number of people > will be evaluating FreeBSD/SMP when it is released, and if the performance > sucks, this is what magazine reviewers will say and is what people will > remember. It's too important of a feature to have working poorly in the > first release. Bingo. I'd hate see another one of those "... FreeBSD did fairly well, nothing remarkable... next OS...". I mean, FreeBSD _is_ damn amazing. The quality of the code (as much as Theo de Raadt'd like us to believe that BSD code sucks) is great -- with all that implies: clean, stable, with a well-defined priority of "it should work before it gets in". My _personal_ opinion is that merging SMP into -current had one inevitable side-effect that maybe not many people thought about: SMP is one _BIG_ lump to digest, and since it's not likely to be "retro-fitted" in -stable (unless many little green men come and help -- and maintain it after), it becomes the biggest single step to get over to reach the next release bump. In a way, merging SMP has had a braking effect on release speed, but has not slowed down development in other places. 3.0 will be one _hell_ of a milestone. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 03:40:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14146 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14141 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:40:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05101; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:40:20 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712041140.MAA05101@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: weird current behaviour... In-Reply-To: <8233.881232990@critter.freebsd.dk> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Dec 4, 97 11:56:30 am" To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:40:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Poul-Henning Kamp who wrote: > > More data... > > If I don't run the two rc564 processes, then this phenomena goes away. > > I still don't understand why I see it on the de0 but not on the fxp0 > or en0 interface... The de? driver could be heavily CPU bound maybe ?? The problem goes away if you use another driver/card combo, yes ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 03:43:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14361 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:43:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14354 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 03:43:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08334; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:41:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: sos@FreeBSD.dk cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: weird current behaviour... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:40:20 +0100." <199712041140.MAA05101@sos.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:41:45 +0100 Message-ID: <8332.881235705@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712041140.MAA05101@sos.freebsd.dk>, Søren Schmidt writes: >In reply to Poul-Henning Kamp who wrote: >> >> More data... >> >> If I don't run the two rc564 processes, then this phenomena goes away. >> >> I still don't understand why I see it on the de0 but not on the fxp0 >> or en0 interface... > >The de? driver could be heavily CPU bound maybe ?? > >The problem goes away if you use another driver/card combo, yes ? It doesn't happen on the en0 or fxp0 interfaces, and it also doesn't happen for traffic on the de0 that stays in the kernel (ie: gets routed through to another interface...) -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 04:57:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18884 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18875 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:57:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA21847; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 04:57:26 -0800 (PST) To: Philippe Regnauld cc: dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:34:19 +0100." <19971204123419.09270@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 04:57:26 -0800 Message-ID: <21843.881240246@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > 3.0 will be one _hell_ of a milestone. Especially if we manage to do the ELF transition before then. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 05:14:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA19763 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:14:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA19749 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 05:14:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-25.cetlink.net [209.54.58.25]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA23838; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:14:10 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Kevin Day Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:15:12 GMT Message-ID: <3488b7a0.46519003@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199712040102.TAA04827@home.dragondata.com> In-Reply-To: <199712040102.TAA04827@home.dragondata.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id FAA19750 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:02:58 -0600 (CST), Kevin Day wrote: >I just mean that if there wasn't a SMP kernel available anywhere, I would >have moved to Linux, and probably switched all my machines. OK, but who would care? >I'm saying that I think it would be a shame to lose FreeBSD users Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the software in the first place? How much money have you donated to the developers of FreeBSD? If someone wants to organize a FreeBSD development fund and pay the developers for their time, they might have some voice in directing the development and timing of releases. But until that happens, I have to say again, who cares if some users leave? >From: "John S. Dyson" >Let's all try to be kinder and gentler. We all understand that SMP is an >important feature, but also we shouldn't be inviting people away :-(. A FreeBSD developers fund might not be a bad idea. Successful ISPs who use FreeBSD should be willing to support it. I'm not a FreeBSD developer, so I have no axe to grind. But I do programming for hire and recognize the value of my time. The vast majority of non-contributing users would have little right to complain about features. $39 for a CD-ROM is not a "contribution." John From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 06:06:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23657 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:06:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23652 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:06:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA22757; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:06:34 -0800 (PST) To: sos@FreeBSD.dk cc: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:01:03 +0100." <199712041401.PAA05418@sos.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 06:06:34 -0800 Message-ID: <22753.881244394@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, we (John P, Peter, myself) have had ELF running on our test > systems for quite some time now, the userland stuff is all there > (give or take). Its possible to boot an ELF kernel, but we need > to do some serious work on the bootblocks if they are going to > support BOTH a.out & ELF. Well, what does Bruce have to say about this? [All eyes swivel in the direction of bde :)]. > Besides this, all we are lacking is time to finish it up, and > decide how to transfer -current over without too much hassle... Is there something specific that someone here could help you with, perhaps? It sure would be nice to get this over with in one major release bump. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 06:07:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23684 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23673 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:07:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01618; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:43:02 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id PAA07915; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:29:50 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id PAA12698; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:04:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971204150449.09771@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:04:49 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <21843.881240246@time.cdrom.com> <199712041401.PAA05418@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199712041401=2EPAA05418=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Thu=2C_Dec_04=2C_1997_at_03=3A01=3A0?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?3PM_+0100?= X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Søren Schmidt writes: > (give or take). Its possible to boot an ELF kernel, but we need > to do some serious work on the bootblocks if they are going to > support BOTH a.out & ELF. > > Besides this, all we are lacking is time to finish it up, and > decide how to transfer -current over without too much hassle... [runs away screaming "Linux is Back", "Linux is Back!"] :-) -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 06:19:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA24468 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:19:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA24456 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:19:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05418; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:01:03 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712041401.PAA05418@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <21843.881240246@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 4, 97 04:57:26 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:01:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > 3.0 will be one _hell_ of a milestone. > > Especially if we manage to do the ELF transition before then. :-) Oops, that triggered my bad concience :) Well, we (John P, Peter, myself) have had ELF running on our test systems for quite some time now, the userland stuff is all there (give or take). Its possible to boot an ELF kernel, but we need to do some serious work on the bootblocks if they are going to support BOTH a.out & ELF. Besides this, all we are lacking is time to finish it up, and decide how to transfer -current over without too much hassle... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 06:35:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA25242 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:35:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA25236 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:35:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan.visint.co.uk (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02174; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:35:12 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:35:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome To: John Kelly cc: Kevin Day , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <3488b7a0.46519003@mail.cetlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, John Kelly wrote: > Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the > software in the first place? How much money have you donated to the > developers of FreeBSD? You might not care, but maybe it implies that there was actually a better way to do something. I'm talking about long term loss of users here, short term just doesn't count. > >From: "John S. Dyson" > >Let's all try to be kinder and gentler. We all understand that SMP is an > >important feature, but also we shouldn't be inviting people away :-(. > > A FreeBSD developers fund might not be a bad idea. Successful ISPs > who use FreeBSD should be willing to support it. I'm not a FreeBSD > developer, so I have no axe to grind. But I do programming for hire > and recognize the value of my time. Successful ISPs probably count for a large proportion of people contributing back to FreeBSD, either in constructive criticism (even if it's not wanted) or code. [But then I don't work for a succesful ISP, and I've contributed nothing] > The vast majority of non-contributing users would have little right to > complain about features. $39 for a CD-ROM is not a "contribution." Complaints offer opportunities you sound like you treat them as personal attacks. I'd be happy to try to get the management here to pay more for a CD-ROM, but after naming it _FreeBSD_ there's a little bit of a problem with that. Steve. -- Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 07:09:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27665 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27659 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:09:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-57.cetlink.net [209.54.58.57]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01461; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:09:30 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Stephen Roome Cc: Kevin Day , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:10:32 GMT Message-ID: <3486d16b.53041676@mail.cetlink.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA27660 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:35:11 +0000 (GMT), Stephen Roome wrote: >Complaints offer opportunities you sound like you treat them as personal >attacks. Not at all. But when people, who paid nothing, say they'll switch to another OS if FreeBSD doesn't have so-and-so feature by such-and-such time, I say let them switch. >I'd be happy to try to get the management here to pay more for a CD-ROM, >but after naming it _FreeBSD_ there's a little bit of a problem with that. The source code is freely available -- at zero price, what more can you ask for? If you think BSDI or SCO does a better job then write them a big check. But if you think FreeBSD is as good or better, especially considering you can do anything with the source code, how does your conscience allow you to use it in a commercial setting and sleep at night without offering a voluntary contribution towards continued development? John From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 08:31:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04357 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from home.dragondata.com (toasty@home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04346 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18408; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:31:31 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199712041631.KAA18408@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <14639.881228417@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 4, 97 01:40:17 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:31:31 -0600 (CST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, but consider someone who hasn't made up their mind yet, and knows > > little/none about the current OS'es out there. The point I'm trying to make > > is that it would, in my mind, help things considerably if there was in > > interim (beta, maybe?) release of 3.0, with the warning that it's not done. > > How is that any different than a snapshot? We even offer them on CD. > > Jordan > Snapshots are great, but where are they, and their features mentioned prominantly on the web page? It took a lot of digging to figure out that a SMP kernel was available at all for me. (I finally found it by going to the SMP home page, where it mentioned that it was merged into -current) Perhaps, i know this is a contradiction, but a 'stable snapshot'? Something that is grantedly unfinished, and may possibly have bugs, but a release at a point where you feel it's ok for production servers to use if they *need* a feature that it has. Kevin From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 09:32:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08936 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:32:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08928 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA26024; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:31:52 -0800 (PST) To: Kevin Day cc: nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:31:31 CST." <199712041631.KAA18408@home.dragondata.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:31:52 -0800 Message-ID: <26020.881256712@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Snapshots are great, but where are they, and their features mentioned > prominantly on the web page? They're on ftp://current.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD, in case you meant that question seriously, and their features aren't mentioned prominently on the web page because nobody has the *time* to maintain such a page, no matter how interested users might be in such a thing. :-( > Perhaps, i know this is a contradiction, but a 'stable snapshot'? Something > that is grantedly unfinished, and may possibly have bugs, but a release at a > point where you feel it's ok for production servers to use if they *need* a > feature that it has. It sounds like you're talking about more "real release engineering" work, not a real popular suggestion these days. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 09:33:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA09074 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09054 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:33:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA00804; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:32:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id LAA04308; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:32:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971204113244.09166@mcs.net> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:32:44 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Kevin Day Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <14639.881228417@time.cdrom.com> <199712041631.KAA18408@home.dragondata.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199712041631.KAA18408@home.dragondata.com>; from Kevin Day on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 10:31:31AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 10:31:31AM -0600, Kevin Day wrote: > > > No, but consider someone who hasn't made up their mind yet, and knows > > > little/none about the current OS'es out there. The point I'm trying to make > > > is that it would, in my mind, help things considerably if there was in > > > interim (beta, maybe?) release of 3.0, with the warning that it's not done. > > > > How is that any different than a snapshot? We even offer them on CD. > > > > Jordan > > > > Snapshots are great, but where are they, and their features mentioned > prominantly on the web page? > > It took a lot of digging to figure out that a SMP kernel was available at > all for me. (I finally found it by going to the SMP home page, where it > mentioned that it was merged into -current) > > Perhaps, i know this is a contradiction, but a 'stable snapshot'? Something > that is grantedly unfinished, and may possibly have bugs, but a release at a > point where you feel it's ok for production servers to use if they *need* a > feature that it has. > > Kevin "make release" hasn't work in quite some time. The current bitch is from the kerberos code. You can't make a snapshot without "make release" running to completion. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 10:40:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14866 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:40:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-49.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14861 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:40:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id KAA03126; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:40:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:40:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712041840.KAA03126@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: toasty@home.dragondata.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <26020.881256712@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * It sounds like you're talking about more "real release engineering" * work, not a real popular suggestion these days. :) Well, at least we are closer to having a full package set available for 3.0-snaps now. (4-CD snap? :> ) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 11:11:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17413 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:11:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17391 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:11:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13997; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:10:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712041910.MAA13997@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: Philippe Regnauld cc: dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:34:19 +0100." <19971204123419.09270@deepo.prosa.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:10:47 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > My _personal_ opinion is that merging SMP into -current had one > inevitable side-effect that maybe not many people thought about: > > SMP is one _BIG_ lump to digest, and since it's not likely > to be "retro-fitted" in -stable (unless many little green men > come and help -- and maintain it after), it becomes the biggest > single step to get over to reach the next release bump. > > In a way, merging SMP has had a braking effect on release speed, > but has not slowed down development in other places. > > 3.0 will be one _hell_ of a milestone. Very well stated. My "best wild guess" about SMP is that there is at least 6-9 person-months of work (probably more) before we meet David's benchmark: >There are two things >that need to be done: locks need to be pushed down so that we have at >least per-subsystem locking (networking, filesystems, VM system, etc), >and we need to rewrite the scheduler for process affinity. I am in agreement with this target, but given the current level of work, this will occur about 2-3 years from now! We need more people actually willing to do some coding and/or testing. I have come to the conclusion (from (non)working experiments) that some fundimental changes will need to be made to the kernel, primarily tossing the spl mechanisms and using mutexs. I am trying to get a serious design discussion on SMP going in smp@freebsd.org, anyone is encouraged to join us there if they wish to participate. Although somewhat stale, there are many useful links to whitepapers on SMP in: http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 11:28:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19312 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:28:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19297; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:28:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20643; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd020571; Thu Dec 4 12:37:41 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA11162; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:27:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712041927.MAA11162@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:27:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mark@vmunix.com, tlambert@primenet.com, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, dyson@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, grog@lemis.com, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712040715.AAA11815@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> from "Steve Passe" at Dec 4, 97 00:15:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Also, could someone summarize the current problems with SMP and NFS? > > Or are they "unknown" at this point in the game? I might be able > > to talk Rick Macklem into lending a hand. He's been hinting that he > > might try some SMP stuff soon, if there is a problem with SMP and NFS > > I might be able to convince him that it's crucial to his NFS code :-) > > Of course, he'd have to stop using his microVAX for a while.... > > As far as I know there are no problems with "SMP + NFS", if thats what > you mean. There are problems with SMP and problems with NFS, but nothing > specific to the combination. I think there are paging problems, since the operation may not complete on the sampe processor because networking is relatively very slow and has many sleep points. There may be paging problems in general, and NFS just shows them more readily; however, I kind of think that that's not the case. I think the bug that's being complained about is running executables using an NFS accessed file as backing store for swap. The ironic thing is that, if this *is* a general problem, some of the NFS remote vs. local changes I've been advocating since FreeBSD 1.0 would have masked the problem and left it to bite people later. 8-). Look at completing the page mapping for a faulted page before sleeping waiting for the transfer so it will be in both processors spaces (that's my hunch). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 11:32:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19754 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:32:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19738 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:32:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14015; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:14:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712041914.MAA14015@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: John Hay cc: dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Dec 1997 09:37:57 +0200." <199712040737.JAA21468@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:14:18 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Ok, but how do we measure it, so that we can know when we get there? > (I don't think it is realistic to expect that we will half the time > that make world takes, except maybe if we throw lots of disks and > controllers at it, for instance.) And how bad do we do at the moment? > Things that are more processor intensive than syscall intensive like > rc564, do get almost full speed out of the CPUs, so if that were a > measurement we could ship now. :-) This is definately an area that could use a volunteer. We need someone to research and assemble a set of definitive tests/benchmarks for SMP that the developers could use to measure the effects of their changes. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 11:45:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20861 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:45:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20828 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:44:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09392; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971204114318.45788@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:43:18 -0800 From: John-Mark Gurney To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <21843.881240246@time.cdrom.com> <199712041401.PAA05418@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199712041401=2EPAA05418=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Thu=2C_Dec_04=2C_1997_at_03=3A01=3A0?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?3PM_+0100?= Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Søren Schmidt scribbled this message on Dec 4: > In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > > 3.0 will be one _hell_ of a milestone. > > > > Especially if we manage to do the ELF transition before then. :-) > > Oops, that triggered my bad concience :) > > Well, we (John P, Peter, myself) have had ELF running on our test > systems for quite some time now, the userland stuff is all there > (give or take). Its possible to boot an ELF kernel, but we need > to do some serious work on the bootblocks if they are going to > support BOTH a.out & ELF. also, if we are going to move to ELF, we also need to write a kernel linker for the ELF libs too... right now we only have an a.out linker.. -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 12:12:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23891 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:12:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23886 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:12:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA09200; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd009150; Thu Dec 4 06:39:50 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12978; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:11:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712042011.NAA12978@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:11:38 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712040322.TAA02466@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Dec 3, 97 07:22:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The people who run the 'OS of the day' aren't that critical to FreeBSD's > > success, since there will *always* be something that causes them to > > switch to another OS. > > Lets assume that you are right, what is then critical to FreeBSD's success? People writing code? ...Oh, wait... those are the people who run the 'OS of the day'... ;-) Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 12:18:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA24769 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:18:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA24749 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:17:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10446; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:45:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd010430; Thu Dec 4 06:45:13 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13215; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:17:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712042017.NAA13215@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:17:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <7580.881226978@critter.freebsd.dk> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Dec 4, 97 10:16:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >What I'm planning on doing (or rather, have done and am planning on > >committing once it's tested) is to separate the actual job-printing > >functionality out of lpd and into a separate program which lpd > >execv()s as necessary to start a printer. This allows that part of > >the program to not occupy any memory resources while it is not being > >used, but does increase the memory used on machines that host active > >printers. > > Question: will the interface between lpd and this program be an internal > one, or a officially supported interface ? Will this be for instance > where we will plug in ghostscript or a bidirectional communication > postscript driver in the future ? > > I would be really neat if we simply changed it to have a generic queing > frontend, to which you could submit files and processing directives, > a queue manager which will take care of submitting one job at a time, > in right priority/order and so on, and then configurable backends to do > the job. That would allow the backend to du many other things than just > printing. Can you say "job-queue" :-) The problem with the POSIX printing model (which is what your suggestion hints at exploding into ;-)) is that it doesn't have a generic queueing system that it's layered on top of... I think that use of a generic queueing system should probably wait until one is written. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 12:26:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25838 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:26:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mailhost.shellnet.co.uk (mailhost.shellnet.co.uk [194.129.209.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25814 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk) Received: by mailhost.shellnet.co.uk with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3-Server (v2.10) for at Thu, 4 Dec 97 20:24:34 +0000 Message-ID: <34871221.2C78@shellnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 20:27:13 +0000 From: "Steven Fletcher (Shellnet IRC administrator)" Reply-To: ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk Organization: Shellnet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD installation problems. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've just tried to install FreeBSD, over FTP (no, not by modem, over a 2mbit line :) However, as the setup has now been completed, the boot from the HD states the two login and help files cannot be found, and neither can the kernel be found. Whilst I realise that I havent put much info here, has anyone seen this sort of problem before, or does anyonw have any suspicions as to what I have done wrong during the Install ? I'd be most grateful if anyone could help me out here, and I'd be happy to provide any more information if and when required :) Thanks so much for reading this.... Steven Fletcher steven@shellnet.co.uk From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 12:34:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27079 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:34:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rif.hoosierlink.net (rif.hoosierlink.net [208.154.69.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27072 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rif@rif.hoosierlink.net) Received: from localhost (rif@localhost) by rif.hoosierlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA02770 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Riffle To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone have access to a Compaq 4710? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone on there in current land have access to a Compaq machine, preferably model 4710? I have been running current on my a Compaq for a good year, however the last few months kernels I cannot use. I can, and do, use a kernel from July. I am wondering if the problem is just my machine, or if the newer current bits just don't like the Compaq proprietary architecture. If someone could get a relatively new (sometime within the last few months) boot.flp from current, and see if it will boot, I would appreciate it greatly. On boot disks, mine bombs with a page fault right after the kernel configuration screen; after it displays the amount of ram in the box (before detecting any other hardware). Compiling a custom kernel does the same thing. If you can get to the main sysinstall screen from the boot floppy, that is all I will need to know. I don't want to beat myself over the head changing stuff around in my box if that isn't the trouble. Thanks, Jim From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 12:37:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27666 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:37:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27595; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:37:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199712042037.MAA27595@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712040322.TAA02466@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty" at Dec 3, 97 07:22:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > The people who run the 'OS of the day' aren't that critical to FreeBSD's > > success, since there will *always* be something that causes them to > > switch to another OS. > > Lets assume that you are right, what is then critical to FreeBSD's success? stability performance predictibility my 2 cents jmb From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 13:00:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00344 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:00:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00314 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14386 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:00:26 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712042100.OAA14386@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: P_IDLEPROC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:00:26 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm trying to add Tor's patch for better clock handling under SMP, I get: ../../i386/i386/mp_machdep.c:2160: `P_IDLEPROC' undeclared (first use this function) P_IDLEPROC seems to be gone from proc.h, what substitutes for it? -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 13:49:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05720 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:49:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA05714 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:49:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28922; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:16:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd028896; Thu Dec 4 08:16:55 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00918; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:48:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712042148.OAA00918@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:48:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3488b7a0.46519003@mail.cetlink.net> from "John Kelly" at Dec 4, 97 02:15:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the > software in the first place? Because of the economics of porting decisions made by commercial software companies, for one. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 14:16:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09129 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:16:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns2.cetlink.net (root@ns2.cetlink.net [209.54.54.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09119 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:16:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jak@cetlink.net) Received: from hot1.auctionfever.com (ts1-cltnc-19.cetlink.net [209.54.58.19]) by ns2.cetlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA03548; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:16:07 -0500 (EST) From: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) To: Terry Lambert Cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:17:09 GMT Message-ID: <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net> References: <199712042148.OAA00918@usr02.primenet.com> In-Reply-To: <199712042148.OAA00918@usr02.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/16.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id OAA09123 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:48:54 +0000 (GMT), Terry Lambert wrote: >> Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the >> software in the first place? > >Because of the economics of porting decisions made by commercial >software companies, for one. But if they won't pay anything for the OS how much will they pay for some app ported by a commercial vendor? John From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 14:46:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11871 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:46:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11855 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 14:46:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.157]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA202 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:46:02 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA01443; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:46:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19971204174617.65390@scsn.net> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:46:17 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: DNS Troubles w/Linux RealPlayer Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I posted the following on emulation and got no response, so I maybe I'll have better luck on -current: --------------------------------------------------------------- When running the Linux RealPlayer 5.0b2, I am seeing some strange problems with DNS. If I try to access a RealMedia URL containing a hostname that needs to be resolved, it will invariably fail in an odd way: With tcpdump, I can see a query to the nameserver, then an answer from the nameserver, but the RealPlayer continues to query as if it didn't get an answer until it finally times out, like so: 17:45:33.199031 208.133.153.54.1335 > 206.25.246.5.domain: 19488+ A? video.real.com. (32) 17:45:33.500296 206.25.246.5.domain > 208.133.153.54.1335: 19488 1/0/0 (48) 17:45:38.230538 208.133.153.54.1336 > 206.25.246.3.domain: 19488+ A? video.real.com. (32) 17:45:43.240285 208.133.153.54.1337 > 206.25.246.5.domain: 19488+ A? video.real.com. (32) 17:45:43.420237 206.25.246.5.domain > 208.133.153.54.1337: 19488 1/0/0 (48) 17:45:48.260307 208.133.153.54.1338 > 206.25.246.3.domain: 19488+ A? video.real.com. (32) 17:45:48.490228 206.25.246.3.domain > 208.133.153.54.1338: 19488 1/0/0 (48) 17:45:53.280388 208.133.153.54.1339 > 206.25.246.5.domain: 19488+ A? video.real.com. (32) 17:45:53.460396 206.25.246.5.domain > 208.133.153.54.1339: 19488 1/0/0 (48) If I substitute the actual IP address in the above URL, it will work just fine. What am I missing here? Is ther something I need to set up in addition to the files below? Here are the relevant files from /compat/linux/etc: ------------------------------ /compat/linux/etc/resolv.conf: ------------------------------ domain scsn.net nameserver 206.25.246.5 nameserver 206.25.246.3 ---------------------------- /compat/linux/etc/host.conf: ----------------------------- order hosts, bind multi on -------------------------------- /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf: -------------------------------- # # /etc/nsswitch.conf # # An example Name Service Switch config file. This file should be # sorted with the most-used services at the beginning. # # The entry '[NOTFOUND=return]' means that the search for an # entry should stop if the search in the previous entry turned # up nothing. Note that if the search failed due to some other reason # (like no NIS server responding) then the search continues with the # next entry. # # Legal entries are: # # nisplus or nis+ Use NIS+ (NIS version 3) # nis or yp Use NIS (NIS version 2), also called YP # dns Use DNS (Domain Name Service) # files Use the local files # [NOTFOUND=return] Stop searching if not found so far # passwd: files nisplus nis shadow: files nisplus nis group: files nisplus nis hosts: files nisplus nis dns services: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files networks: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files protocols: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files rpc: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files ethers: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files netmasks: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files bootparams: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files netgroup: nisplus publickey: nisplus automount: files nisplus aliases: files nisplus From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 15:08:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13411 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13404 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:08:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA01839; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:08:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id RAA20703; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:07:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971204170759.15538@mcs.net> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:07:59 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: John Kelly Cc: Terry Lambert , toasty@home.dragondata.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <199712042148.OAA00918@usr02.primenet.com> <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 11:17:09PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 11:17:09PM +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:48:54 +0000 (GMT), Terry Lambert > wrote: > > >> Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the > >> software in the first place? > > > >Because of the economics of porting decisions made by commercial > >software companies, for one. > > But if they won't pay anything for the OS how much will they pay for > some app ported by a commercial vendor? > > John Nonsense. I'll pay what the application is worth, which, if its something I need, might be real money indeed. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 15:34:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15083 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from unix.tfs.net (node59.tfs.net [207.2.220.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15044 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:33:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id RAA27296 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:33:54 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712042333.RAA27296@unix.tfs.net> Subject: applicability of 4.4 book to -current? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:33:54 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk how applicable is the book "The Design and Immplementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System" to the -current effort? primarily what sections should i not pay that much heed to? i understand that the Mach-style vm described went out the door some time back, but is the high-level vm interface similar or the same? if i'm going to get into sync on -current, i guess this is a good starting point. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 15:35:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15256 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:35:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15251 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:35:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15161 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:35:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712042335.QAA15161@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: P_IDLEPROC In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:00:26 MST." <199712042100.OAA14386@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:35:34 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Hi, > > I'm trying to add Tor's patch for better clock handling under SMP, I get: > > ../../i386/i386/mp_machdep.c:2160: `P_IDLEPROC' undeclared (first use this > function) > > P_IDLEPROC seems to be gone from proc.h, what substitutes for it? mevermind... Tor pointed out that there are no longer any IDLE procs. I have a buildworld running on dec 3 src, will report when its finished. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 15:45:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15854 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:45:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15845 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01374; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:44:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712042344.PAA01374@rah.star-gate.com> To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) cc: Terry Lambert , toasty@home.dragondata.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:17:09 GMT." <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1371.881279078.1@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 15:44:38 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I bought the Diamond Monsterd 3D because there was going to be Linux support and I later on provided the linux layer support to use the card. Additionally, I bought Quake because I knew I was going to be able to use it on my FreeBSD box. In short , if there is a compelling reason to buy a software package, I will buy the software *irrespective* of how much I paid for the OS. Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 16:21:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18184 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18176 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:21:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id AAA15841; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:20:43 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:17:52 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <12547.881197377@time.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:36:04 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:16:50 +0000 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 1:02 am +0000 4/12/97, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >No kidding - I'm still trying to get a whole bunch of folks to upgrade >from 2.1 [etc] Tell me about it. This site's workhorse server: seagoon# uname -a FreeBSD seagoon 2.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 2.0-RELEASE #0: Sun Sep 17 18:17:54 BST 1995 rb@seagoon:/usr/src/sys/compile/SEAGOON i386 seagoon# and we've got several others in a similar state. They stay up 24/7 unless we take them down. Just got started on upgrading these to 2.2.5, I hope it's as good... -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 16:35:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19178 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:35:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19170 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:35:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from gid.co.uk (uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.4) with UUCP id AAA15924 for freebsd.org!current; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:34:34 GMT Received: from [194.32.164.2] by seagoon.gid.co.uk; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:31:43 GMT X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:30:41 +0000 To: current@freebsd.org From: Bob Bishop Subject: Strange... Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Using ftp to fetch a file on to my -current system (a couple of days old), the first attempt eventually times out with: 425 Can't build data connection: Address already in use. Any ideas? -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 17:11:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22102 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:11:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22095; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:11:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA05429; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:11:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:11:26 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: "Jay M. Richmond" cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stable patched for bus mastering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Jay M. Richmond wrote: > Hello, > I've got the follow error on my -stable system that was recently (and > finally patched successfully for bus mastering, or so I thought): > I get the following kernel probe messages on boot up: > > sff80380 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 > sff8038: warning, ide0:1 not configured for DMA? > sff8038: warning, ide1:1 not configured for DMA? > > Sorry for the double post and the post to -current, but apparently these > are -current drivers at the heart. > > What does this indicate? Do I need to change something in my BIOS or > hardware configuration? You can set the device flags on the disks to enable DMA accesses: flags 0xa0ffa0ff Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 17:20:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22958 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:20:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22941 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:20:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA04028; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:20:36 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA27250; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:20:26 +0100 (MET) To: Ari Suutari Cc: John Kelly , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: From: Eivind Eklund Date: 05 Dec 1997 02:20:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: Ari Suutari's message of Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:00:13 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <86k9dkegbr.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Lines: 37 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.52/XEmacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ari Suutari writes: > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > Problem both places, methinks. See if the following fixes it (from > > aage@aage.priv.no): > > > > --- /tmp/natd.c Tue Dec 2 22:24:53 1997 > > +++ /usr/src/usr.sbin/natd/natd.c Wed Oct 29 22:11:32 1997 > > @@ -1332,7 +1332,7 @@ > > > > port = strtol (str, &end, 10); > > if (end != str) > > - return htonl (port); > > + return htons (port); > > > > sp = getservbyname (str, proto); > > if (!sp) > > > > If it does, I'll commit it - it looks correct, and I've got one other > > favourable report :-) > > > > Hi, > > After making this change, it no longer worked > on 2.2, I guess that it won't work on 3.0 either > (I didn't have time to check it any futher, I just > tried it). Weird. I've had reports from two users (one that is using natd and had problems, and Aage Roebekk that actually fixed it) that this solves a genuine problem. Using htonl() on a port number at least seems to be wrong - port numbers are 16 bits. Signed/unsigned trouble too, perhaps? Eivind. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 17:46:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25143 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:46:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.5.85]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25138 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:46:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12899; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:22:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012878; Thu Dec 4 18:21:55 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA29771; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:21:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712050121.SAA29771@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:21:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net> from "John Kelly" at Dec 4, 97 11:17:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the > >> software in the first place? > > > >Because of the economics of porting decisions made by commercial > >software companies, for one. > > But if they won't pay anything for the OS how much will they pay for > some app ported by a commercial vendor? But if they won't pay anything for the cellular telephone how much will they pay for air time from some commercial vendor? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 17:50:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25493 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:50:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25479 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:50:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA06601; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd006598; Thu Dec 4 17:49:48 1997 Message-ID: <34875D2D.42877E5C@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:47:25 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jbryant@unix.tfs.net CC: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: applicability of 4.4 book to -current? References: <199712042333.RAA27296@unix.tfs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Bryant wrote: > > how applicable is the book "The Design and Immplementation of the > 4.4BSD Operating System" to the -current effort? > > primarily what sections should i not pay that much heed to? > > i understand that the Mach-style vm described went out the door some > time back, but is the high-level vm interface similar or the same? Actually it is still based on that and still has the same structures in general. it's just been reworked and optimised a LOT. > > if i'm going to get into sync on -current, i guess this is a good > starting point. > > jim > -- > All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, > think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or > radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw > voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 17:50:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25523 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:50:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA25491; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA06578; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd006574; Thu Dec 4 17:48:19 1997 Message-ID: <34875CD4.7566F4CF@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:45:56 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Poul-Henning Kamp CC: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: weird current behaviour... References: <8106.881230997@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk All the fast ones only have interrupt context processing. the slow ones have a userland context. (the ping process) The rc456 programs are finishing up their quantum before allowing the ping to run and recieve the response. This is possibly because they have a higher priority than the ping becsause the idlprio stuff doesn't really update or change the priority.. Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Network: > > machine-A en0 ------------ en0 machine-B > de0 fxp0 > | \ > | ----------------- de0 machine-C > | > hub ----- machine-D > | > | > ed0 > machine-E > > These two cases: > > 1. ping from A to E > 2. ping from A to D > > I see the round-trip time flutter from 9msec to 70 msec... > > Every other path the round-trip time is OK, including confusingly > enough: > > from E to A > from D to A > from B&C to E > from B&C to D > > What gives ? > > Is the if_de driver broken somehow ? > > Does anybody else see this ? > > Machine-A is a PR440FX motherboard with 2xP6/233 running current-SMP. > > I have tried two different de0 cards and both does this. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 18:05:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA27002 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:05:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26967; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:05:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA28078; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:04:50 -0800 (PST) To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: toasty@home.dragondata.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-to: ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:40:18 PST." <199712041840.KAA03126@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:04:49 -0800 Message-ID: <28074.881287489@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, at least we are closer to having a full package set available > for 3.0-snaps now. (4-CD snap? :> ) It's no joke, I may have to do that soon! :-( I'm not sure if it could stay the same price if moved to a 4 CD set though since the margins are a lot lower on the snapshot, given its $14.95 subscription price and much lower wholesaler price. I figured the SNAP fans would want the CD to be the cheapest possible resource, overall, and am kind of loath to bloat it into a "real product" like this unless people really want that to happen (comments?). Regarding ports and packages in general, I think that we also need to start looking *really seriously* at the idea of a "multi-volume" ports/packages collection, since a need to split them across at least 2 locations has already been the case since 2.2.5. Even if you prune and chop and tweak like mad for 3.0, I can guarantee you that the packages won't all fit in 650MB [see note]. :-) This means to me that the INDEX file needs to grow at least one more field for the volume name (or maybe we can just tuck it into the keywords field, does anyone even use that? :-) and somebody needs to modify portlint so that a port's volume is checked against its dependencies, it being an error to put your package outside the same volume as all the things it depends on. This would allow me to modify sysinstall to request in turn that the appropriate media be mounted when asking for a specific package that isn't on the current media. To think about: Should we also implement a volume-to-media mapping file which allows the installation to build a menu of valid choices based on the media types the user has available and the "map" of where the packages are available, be that anything from "CD:WC/3" to "ftp://ftp.jp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/packages/japan-latest"? Thinking ahead to where we've got potentially 4000-5000 packages, with an average size of 500K for packages the whole collection is going to be easily 2GB or more. I could see where it might become distributed more geographically, or from a more limited number of servers than supply the distribution bits, and we're going to need to account for that somehow. The second thing I think we need to consider is that in the longer term, I can easily see a day where the ports and packages collection have grown to the point where decoupling them from the primary FreeBSD releases becomes essential in order that the "base system" remain reasonably priced. This would also allow the ports collection to move at its own release schedule, perhaps doing only 2 - 3 releases a year and published in a format closer to Rich Morin's well known Prime Time Freeware for UNIX CDs (http://www.ptf.com/ptf/products/UNIX). They come with a nifty printed book containing alphabetized short descriptions so you can look something up quickly before wasting your time mounting the wrong CD, and I think the ports & packages collection should do exactly the same thing. Doing this would also allow Walnut Creek CDROM to see just how much revenue the ports collection alone generated, and as a new product I'm pretty confident that I could negotiate in advance that a slice of the pie from every ports collection CD sale go into a special "support the ports collection project fund" (over and above money already given to FreeBSD.org) from which we could buy Satoshi and crew a package building machine from hell, among other periodic goodies. :-) [and I've been thinking of some nice 10 drive CCD array configurations which would really do the job nicely when mated with a dual-processor PII-300. ;)] What do folks think of all this? Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 19:23:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA04906 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:23:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA04876 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:23:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xdoMj-0000dB-00; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:23:45 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id UAA06388; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:22:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712050322.UAA06388@harmony.village.org> To: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:16:50 GMT." References: Your message of "Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:36:04 PST." Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 20:22:31 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Bob Bishop writes: : Tell me about it. This site's workhorse server: We've just this past week replaced our 1.1.5.1R work horse with a couple of 2.2.2R systems (soon to be 2.2.5-stable systems, once we get some kinks worked out). How long ago was 1.1.5.1R released? Warner From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 19:28:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05523 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:28:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05508 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:28:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA08114; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:26:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712050326.WAA08114@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Terry Lambert cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp), wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu, current@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... References: <199712042017.NAA13215@usr09.primenet.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 20:17:16 GMT." <199712042017.NAA13215@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:26:12 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There already is a sort of generic queueing system available. Take a look at MDQS. It's rather old code, but there are some good ideas there. Some years ago, I did a lot of hacking on this code to add more network transports (between queueing systems) to accomodate IBM and Unisys mainframes, support of ethernet attached printers (rather new at the time). A pay-for-printing capability was added too. Look on ftp://ni.umd.edu/dist for a recent (1995) version. It can also be used, for example, do a batch processing system with a service process that run shell scripts, rather than printing files. louie From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 19:29:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA05625 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:29:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA05601; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:29:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02198; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:29:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712050329.TAA02198@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" cc: nate@mt.sri.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 12:37:13 PST." <199712042037.MAA27595@hub.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:29:10 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > > > The people who run the 'OS of the day' aren't that critical to FreeBSD's > > > success, since there will *always* be something that causes them to > > > switch to another OS. > > > > Lets assume that you are right, what is then critical to FreeBSD's success? > > stability > performance > predictibility > How about compelling business reason and delivery of the product? Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 20:00:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08436 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:00:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08348 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17097; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:58:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712050358.TAA17097@austin.polstra.com> To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:19:30 +0100." <7661.881227170@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:58:33 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Emacs may think that it has a monopoly on calling sbrk() that would > be bad :-( Luckily, that's not it. The problem, essentially, is that the emacs executable is invalid. When emacs is built, first the Makefile builds a virgin version named "temacs" using normal cc commands. Then it runs temacs in batch mode, telling it to load all the common built-in lisp modules. After loading them into memory, temacs then "unexec"s itself. What does that mean? It copies its address space out to a file, and fakes up an a.out header at the beginning of it so that the file can be executed directly. That file becomes the emacs that is installed. Unfortunately, the file isn't quite a valid executable. The special symbols "_edata" and "_end", which would normally be be be generated by the linker, have incorrect values. The dynamic linker was using the value of "_end" to set the initial break level that sbrk uses. Since the value was wrong, the memory allocations were trampling on emacs data, thereby causing it to coredump. To work around the bug, I changed the dynamic linker to calculate its break level based on the segment sizes in the a.out header. Luckily, it can access the header, because under FreeBSD the a.out header is mapped into memory near the beginning of the program's address space. Xemacs has a better unexec package, which sets the values of the special symbols correctly. That's why it worked but GNU emacs didn't. I committed the workaround this evening, and everything should function fine again. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 20:23:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10396 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:23:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (bob.scl.ameslab.gov [147.155.137.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10391 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:23:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ccsanady@bob.scl.ameslab.gov) Received: from bob.scl.ameslab.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bob.scl.ameslab.gov (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08608; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:23:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712050423.WAA08608@bob.scl.ameslab.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Steve Passe cc: FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: P_IDLEPROC In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:00:26 MST." <199712042100.OAA14386@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:23:46 -0600 From: Chris Csanady Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hi, > >I'm trying to add Tor's patch for better clock handling under SMP, I get: > >../../i386/i386/mp_machdep.c:2160: `P_IDLEPROC' undeclared (first use this >function) > >P_IDLEPROC seems to be gone from proc.h, what substitutes for it? It was a flag that was set on the idle processes. The purpose was to be able to distinguish them from other processes during resource accounting. (ie. so the load avg was not always > 0, etc) It was just defined as one of the spare flags in the proc struct.. Chris Csanady From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 20:45:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA12309 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:45:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12297 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:45:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA17961; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:47:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971204234716.16993@vmunix.com> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:47:16 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Steve Passe Cc: Philippe Regnauld , dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <19971204123419.09270@deepo.prosa.dk> <199712041910.MAA13997@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712041910.MAA13997@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com>; from Steve Passe on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 12:10:47PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 12:10:47PM -0700, Steve Passe wrote: > [SNIP] > > 3.0 will be one _hell_ of a milestone. > > Very well stated. My "best wild guess" about SMP is that there is at least > 6-9 person-months of work (probably more) before we meet David's benchmark: > > >There are two things > >that need to be done: locks need to be pushed down so that we have at > >least per-subsystem locking (networking, filesystems, VM system, etc), > >and we need to rewrite the scheduler for process affinity. > > I am in agreement with this target, but given the current level of work, > this will occur about 2-3 years from now! We need more people actually > willing to do some coding and/or testing. Okay, I'm going to bite the bullet and put off my dream of owning an alpha and buy a dual processor machine to help out in the testing! :-) I'm about as capable as a slinky when it comes to coding anything as involved as the FreeBSD SMP kernel, but I can test the hell out of it and hopefully be useful in that regard.. I also need to move to -CURRENT soon to get more up to date info into the book I'm writing.. so it was inevitable.. ;-) I don't know if anybody else is like me, but just thinking about the 3.0 release gets me all excited! SMP, ELF, IDE bus mastering, and so on and so on... It's certainly true that SMP has slowed down the release schedule of 3.0, with a super positive effect that FreeBSD 3.0 will be one rockin' step forward for FreeBSD! I'm really looking forward to it!! 8-) > Although somewhat stale, there are many useful links to whitepapers > on SMP in: > > http://www.freebsd.org/~fsmp/SMP/SMP.html Cool. DOwnloading some papers to read over the holiday vacation right now! -Mark > -- > Steve Passe | powered by > smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 20:59:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13686 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:59:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13671 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:58:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id AAA18072; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:00:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971205000015.58063@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:00:15 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: John Kelly Cc: Terry Lambert , toasty@home.dragondata.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <199712042148.OAA00918@usr02.primenet.com> <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net>; from John Kelly on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 11:17:09PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 11:17:09PM +0000, John Kelly wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:48:54 +0000 (GMT), Terry Lambert > wrote: > > >> Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the > >> software in the first place? > > > >Because of the economics of porting decisions made by commercial > >software companies, for one. > > But if they won't pay anything for the OS how much will they pay for > some app ported by a commercial vendor? You seem to be missing the point. I run FreeBSD simply because it's the best operating system for my needs! Price is really not that relevant - if FreeBSD costs as much as NT workstation, I'd almost certainly buy it anyways! The fact that I haven't paid for the product doesn't mean I'm unwilling to pay for other commercial apps.. I evaluate potential products based on what return I get for my investment. In FreeBSD's case, it's a win-win situation since my return is large, and I have to invest very little. In fact, I would argue that the FreeBSD "model" is in many ways the ideal situation for developers, since if the OS doesn't cost anything there is no huge company behind it. The sole purpose of FreeBSD is to produce a solid operating system, and support the users. When I write an app for FreeBSD, there's no fear of "FreeBSD Inc" deciding that I represent a large enough section of the market that they will buy me up/out and essentially become my competition. That's the situation when you write for Windows. No thank you. FreeBSD, and Linux for that matter, might not be huge forces now in the commercial software market, but I'm confident that over time more and more developers will become frustrated with the M$ way of doing business, and "retreat" to the free operating system world. At its current rate of progress, FreeBSD will be in fine shape indeed to provide a safe haven to those devlopers. It's really a pitty that people associate cost and "value" when it comes to operating system, since it's really the exact thing you don't want as a developer. FreeBSD is truly freedom from the devlopment point of view. Thanks for tuning in, -Mark ;-) > > John > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 21:02:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13953 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:02:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13945 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:01:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from smp@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA16328; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:01:47 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712050501.WAA16328@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: Mark Mayo cc: Philippe Regnauld , dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:47:16 EST." <19971204234716.16993@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:01:47 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Okay, I'm going to bite the bullet and put off my dream of owning an > alpha and buy a dual processor machine to help out in the testing! :-) > I'm about as capable as a slinky when it comes to coding anything > as involved as the FreeBSD SMP kernel, but I can test the hell out of > it and hopefully be useful in that regard.. I also need to move to > -CURRENT soon to get more up to date info into the book I'm > writing.. so it was inevitable.. ;-) Great, testers are very important. Part of being "stable" is working on the hundreds of different hardware configurations that people will try to run it on. The developers can't begin to do that part of the work. We need people who can report details of the failures, and are sophisticated enough to apply patches we provide in an effort to solve the problems. Another person is working on a web service to register hardware configurations, mptables, etc, along with history tracking of the problems encountered. Hopefully enough people out there will pop for dual systems to fill up our database! -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 21:27:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA15884 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:27:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15850; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:26:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA21786; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:24:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:24:37 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: ports@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Satoshi Asami , toasty@home.dragondata.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <28074.881287489@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Well, at least we are closer to having a full package set available > > for 3.0-snaps now. (4-CD snap? :> ) > > It's no joke, I may have to do that soon! :-( [lots deleted] > The second thing I think we need to consider is that in the longer > term, I can easily see a day where the ports and packages collection > have grown to the point where decoupling them from the primary FreeBSD > releases becomes essential in order that the "base system" remain > reasonably priced. I know I proposed this specifically myself a good while back (I don't know if I was first, tho) but considering the *value* involved in the ports product, along with it's massive size, it seems very easily supportable. Along with that, it's now becoming a resource for NetBSD and OpenBSD fans, and I'll bet those folks would appreciate not having to pay for FreeBSD parts they don't want. Having it's own product advertisements and separate billing can only increase FreeBSD's total visibility, and considering Walnut Creek's massive support of FreeBSD over the long term, I admit it doesn't bother me in the least if they manage to make money from it. > Doing this would also allow Walnut Creek CDROM to see just how much > revenue the ports collection alone generated, and as a new product I'm > pretty confident that I could negotiate in advance that a slice of the > pie from every ports collection CD sale go into a special "support the > ports collection project fund" (over and above money already given to > FreeBSD.org) from which we could buy Satoshi and crew a package :-) [and > I've been thinking of some nice 10 drive CCD array configurations > which would really do the job nicely when mated with a dual-processor > PII-300. ;)] Huh ... Jordan's getting power mad. I want a pic of you, dolled up with a lab coat and a fright wig, in the green glow of an oversized monitor! > > What do folks think of all this? > > Jordan > > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 21:52:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18159 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:52:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18151; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:52:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA24132; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:52:49 -0800 (PST) To: Amancio Hasty cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , nate@mt.sri.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:29:10 PST." <199712050329.TAA02198@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:52:49 -0800 Message-ID: <24128.881301169@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> stability >> performance >> predictibility >> > How about compelling business reason and delivery of the > product? I think we can decipher through all this that Amancio has an axe to grind about release schedules and a lack of firmness in same. That's fine. I don't think that anyone here disputes our general inability to hit a fixed release date if we're not allowed to sneak up real close to it first. We *suck* at this, in many ways, and we're going to continue to suck right up until such time as the whole release engineering process transitions from "release engineering guy" (hi!) to "release engineering group", where "group" is defined as at least 2 to 3 install hackers, a CVS buildmeister and a test engineer with one or more assistant testers. Even at minimum staffing levels, that's 5 full-time people either actively working away on a release or using the in-between hours to work on improving their tools. That's probably also about 10 machines (representing "typical configs") in a test lab, with someone doing double-duty as the lab manager who keeps track of all the bits and bobs that need to be tested. Figure on 4 average-sized office rooms to hold the lab and the project member offices, you're talking about a non-trivial amount of funding to sustain that kind of organization. Should I ever have that kind of funding available, you can also bet that's exactly what I'll do with it. :-) It's unfortunate that your average volunteer also tends to make a poor substitute for any of these "5 minimum personnel" in my scenario since doing this kind of work for free on an ongoing basis quickly starts to suck (just trust me on this :). You really need for your release engineering group to be *accountable* for their pieces of the puzzle if a release is actually going to come off on a reliable schedule and in the volunteer world, unfortunately, people are always wandering off suddenly with cryptic "sorry, family crisis, gotta go!" explanations or otherwise just becoming so suddenly swamped with other work that for several weeks solid they come home and fall asleep immediately without even reading their email. That's totally forgivable for a volunteer, of course, but if he's also your buildmeister and it just happens to be release week (and nobody else understands the build system quite like he does), well... That's sort of going to muck with your release schedules a bit, you know what I'm saying here? :-) So, in summary, if you want to make sure that Jonathan's "stability, performance & predictability" criteria are not seriously compromised by the schedule, and you really want to stick to an *exact* schedule, then somebody's going to have to find me at least $500K/year hidden under a rug someplace so that I can hire those folks and stick them in the kind of environment where they can communicate directly with one another and focus exclusively on the problem, 40 hours a week minimum, and actually do the job the way it's *supposed* to be done. :) If you want to preserve Johnathan's criteria without spending at least $500K/yr, on the other hand, then you've got to settle for a floating schedule. Sorry! Law of physics. Not my fault. ;-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 22:13:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19759 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:13:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dezcom.mephi.ru (timur@dezcom.mephi.ru [194.67.76.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19716 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:13:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from timur@dezcom.mephi.ru) Received: from localhost (timur@localhost) by dezcom.mephi.ru (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03511 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:05:31 +0300 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:05:31 +0300 (MSK) From: "Timur M." To: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems with slip Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please help me anybody !!!!!!!!!! When i'm trying to connect my FreeBSD machine to the other side with slattach i have the problem The problem is : I can't establish connection at baud rate 115200 for a long time. Using {slattach -a -h -l -s 115200;ifconfig sl0 my.addrs other.address}, i can ping the other side with normal packet size, but if i try to ping with biggest packet or try to use any browser, my connection is lost. But i have slattach in the list of processes and my sl0 interface was configured properly.The problem was encountered at the ASUS TX97-E , ASUS TP4N and DTE-KTX430 motherboards.In the other side this configuration works properly at the ASUS TP4XE motherboard.I'm using the FreeBSD 2.2.2 version.Please send me any ideas about this problem. Timur M. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 22:14:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19787 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:14:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dezcom.mephi.ru (timur@dezcom.mephi.ru [194.67.76.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19668 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:12:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from timur@dezcom.mephi.ru) Received: from localhost (timur@localhost) by dezcom.mephi.ru (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03502 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:04:39 +0300 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:04:39 +0300 (MSK) From: "Timur M." To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: problems with slip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please help me anybody !!!!!!!!!! When i'm trying to connect my FreeBSD machine to the other side with slattach i have the problem The problem is : I can't establish connection at baud rate 115200 for a long time. Using {slattach -a -h -l -s 115200;ifconfig sl0 my.addrs other.address}, i can ping the other side with normal packet size, but if i try to ping with biggest packet or try to use any browser, my connection is lost. But i have slattach in the list of processes and my sl0 interface was configured properly.The problem was encountered at the ASUS TX97-E , ASUS TP4N and DTE-KTX430 motherboards.In the other side this configuration works properly at the ASUS TP4XE motherboard.I'm using the FreeBSD 2.2.2 version.Please send me any ideas about this problem. Timur M. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 22:29:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21498 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:29:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21493 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:29:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA24157; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:55:47 -0800 (PST) To: "Louis A. Mamakos" cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp), wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:26:12 EST." <199712050326.WAA08114@whizzo.TransSys.COM> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:55:46 -0800 Message-ID: <24153.881301346@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Take a look at MDQS. It's rather old code, but there are some > good ideas there. Some years ago, I did a lot of hacking on this > code to add more network transports (between queueing systems) to > accomodate IBM and Unisys mainframes, support of ethernet attached > printers (rather new at the time). A pay-for-printing capability > was added too. There's this too, from the March '97 newsflash: http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/person/kjc/programs.html From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 22:30:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21673 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:30:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from luke.cpl.net (luke.cpl.net [207.67.172.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21662 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:30:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shawn@luke.cpl.net) Received: from localhost (shawn@localhost) by luke.cpl.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA24555 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:33:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:33:58 -0800 (PST) From: Shawn Ramsey cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <24128.881301169@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I think we can decipher through all this that Amancio has an axe to > grind about release schedules and a lack of firmness in same. That's > fine. I don't think that anyone here disputes our general inability > to hit a fixed release date if we're not allowed to sneak up real > close to it first. We *suck* at this, in many ways, and we're going > to continue to suck right up until such time as the whole release Everyone sucks at release schedules. Release dates often slip by months. Remember Windows 4.0, AKA Chicago, Windows 93 or was it 94? From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 22:49:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23214 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:49:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23196; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:49:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03158; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:49:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712050649.WAA03158@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jonathan M. Bresler" , nate@mt.sri.com, toasty@home.dragondata.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:52:49 PST." <24128.881301169@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:49:39 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Relax, I am trying to help believe it or not. Just wanted to drag out the status-quo now lets see what happens. Just don't forget to post your requirements on the FreeBSD Web Page is there and is visible . Have Fun, Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 23:24:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25951 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:24:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25934 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:24:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10664; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:22:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Julian Elischer cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: weird current behaviour... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:45:56 PST." <34875CD4.7566F4CF@whistle.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 08:22:39 +0100 Message-ID: <10662.881306559@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <34875CD4.7566F4CF@whistle.com>, Julian Elischer writes: >All the fast ones only have interrupt context processing. >the slow ones have a userland context. (the ping process) >The rc456 programs are finishing up their quantum before allowing the >ping to run and recieve the response. Wrong. If I ping C from A it works fine. If I ping B from A it works fine. If I ping D or E from A it works badly. In all cases the path is the same... I agree that it is somehow related to context switching, but how ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 23:24:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25975 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:24:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25962 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:24:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from papillon.lemis.com ([168.87.69.104]) by Tandem.com (8.8.8/2.0.1) with ESMTP id XAA20467; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) id OAA01586; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:36:11 +0800 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205143609.57742@lemis.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:36:09 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Mark Mayo Cc: John Kelly , Terry Lambert , toasty@home.dragondata.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <199712042148.OAA00918@usr02.primenet.com> <348839a9.79109795@mail.cetlink.net> <19971205000015.58063@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <19971205000015.58063@vmunix.com>; from Mark Mayo on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 12:00:15AM -0500 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 12:00:15AM -0500, Mark Mayo wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 11:17:09PM +0000, John Kelly wrote: >> On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:48:54 +0000 (GMT), Terry Lambert >> wrote: >> >>>> Why is it a shame to lose users who don't pay anything for the >>>> software in the first place? >>> >>> Because of the economics of porting decisions made by commercial >>> software companies, for one. >> >> But if they won't pay anything for the OS how much will they pay for >> some app ported by a commercial vendor? > > You seem to be missing the point. I run FreeBSD simply because it's > the best operating system for my needs! Price is really not that > relevant - if FreeBSD costs as much as NT workstation, I'd almost > certainly buy it anyways! I think there's a good point to be made here. I started using FreeBSD mainly because Walnut Creek asked me to. I was a quite satisfied BSDI customer at the time (and I suppose that, for the next three weeks until my support contract runs out, I still am). Nevertheless, I didn't even install BSD/OS 3.0 when it arrived. In fact, I don't even know what I've done with the CD-ROMS :-( So I paid for BSD/OS and preferred to run FreeBSD. Greg From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 23:32:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26699 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:32:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26693 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10742; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:30:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: John Polstra cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:58:33 PST." <199712050358.TAA17097@austin.polstra.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 08:30:09 +0100 Message-ID: <10740.881307009@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712050358.TAA17097@austin.polstra.com>, John Polstra writes: >> Emacs may think that it has a monopoly on calling sbrk() that would >> be bad :-( > >Luckily, that's not it. The problem, essentially, is that the emacs >executable is invalid. > >When emacs is built, first the Makefile builds a virgin version named >"temacs" using normal cc commands. Then it runs temacs in batch >mode, telling it to load all the common built-in lisp modules. After >loading them into memory, temacs then "unexec"s itself. What does >that mean? It copies its address space out to a file, and fakes up an >a.out header at the beginning of it so that the file can be executed >directly. That file becomes the emacs that is installed. What happens to malloc's mmap'ed page-table ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 23:35:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26995 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:35:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26974 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07629; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:35:20 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712050735.IAA07629@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: P_IDLEPROC In-Reply-To: <199712042100.OAA14386@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> from Steve Passe at "Dec 4, 97 02:00:26 pm" To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:35:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Steve Passe who wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to add Tor's patch for better clock handling under SMP, I get: > > ../../i386/i386/mp_machdep.c:2160: `P_IDLEPROC' undeclared (first use this > function) > > P_IDLEPROC seems to be gone from proc.h, what substitutes for it? Nothing :), its not used anymore, and it wasn't really used before either. I'm running with those patches too, seems to work pretty well.. Oh, and yes I'm also into SMP now, I bought a TYAN 1662 board recently with 2xP6/200... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 23:52:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28883 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:52:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28837 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:51:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id SAA23963; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:46:25 +1100 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:46:25 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199712050746.SAA23963@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, sos@FreeBSD.dk Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Cc: dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> Well, we (John P, Peter, myself) have had ELF running on our test >> systems for quite some time now, the userland stuff is all there >> (give or take). Its possible to boot an ELF kernel, but we need >> to do some serious work on the bootblocks if they are going to >> support BOTH a.out & ELF. > >Well, what does Bruce have to say about this? [All eyes swivel in >the direction of bde :)]. I know very little about ELF. For a.out, the right way to load it is to load the whole kernel file and jump to the address at offset 0 in it (the magic number at this address is of course 0xNNNNNNed to jump over the header). Perhaps the boot loader should initialize paging so that the startup code doesn't need to be written in assembler (to relocate from low physical memory to high virtual memory). Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Thu Dec 4 23:55:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29102 for current-outgoing; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:55:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mantar.slip.netcom.com (mantar.slip.netcom.com [192.187.167.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29096 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:55:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mantar@netcom.com) Received: from dual (DUAL [192.187.167.136]) by mantar.slip.netcom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA11521; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:48:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mantar@netcom.com) Message-Id: <199712050748.XAA11521@mantar.slip.netcom.com> X-Sender: guest@mantar.slip.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Release Candidate 3 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:48:52 -0800 To: "Timur M." , FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Manfred Antar Subject: Re: Problems with slip In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:05 AM 12/5/97 +0300, Timur M. wrote: >Please help me anybody !!!!!!!!!! >When i'm trying to connect my FreeBSD machine to the other side with >slattach i have the problem >The problem is : >I can't establish connection at baud rate 115200 for a long time. >Using {slattach -a -h -l -s 115200;ifconfig sl0 my.addrs other.address}, >i can ping the other side with normal packet size, but if i try to >ping with biggest packet or try to use any browser, my connection is lost. >But i have slattach in the list of processes and my sl0 interface was >configured properly.The problem was encountered at the ASUS TX97-E , >ASUS TP4N and DTE-KTX430 motherboards.In the other side this configuration >works properly at the ASUS TP4XE motherboard.I'm using the FreeBSD 2.2.2 >version.Please send me any ideas about this problem. > Timur M. I have been using slip on a Current 486 machine for years. at some point there was a program introduced to the distribution called startslip.Works great there are some sample files in /usr/share/examples/startslip. I think that was in the 2.2.2 version. Try that Manfred |==============================| | mantar@netcom.com | | Ph. (415) 681-6235 | |==============================| From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 00:50:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA03505 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:50:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03482 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:50:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id JAA29174 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:50:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from j@uriah.heep.sax.de) Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.8.8/8.8.5) id JAA10686; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:41:54 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19971205094154.16880@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:41:54 +0100 From: J Wunsch To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Changing lpd's model of operation slightly... Reply-To: Joerg Wunsch References: <199712031818.NAA13289@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: ; from Julian Elischer on Wed, Dec 03, 1997 at 08:13:03PM -0800 X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > .. What about lp-ng? That's probably the same suggestion as if you'd ask to replace the existing vi in the distribution by Emacs. ;-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 01:30:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA06479 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:30:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06474 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA04546; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:34:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205003412.04149@micron.mini.net> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:34:12 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Vendor-specific processor hacks Reply-To: Jonathan Mini Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In light of the current F00F bug, and other vendor-specific hacks, such as the performance tuning for the Curix chipsets and Intel's floating-point bug, and other items of that issue, I would like to propose adding a set of options to define the vendor target range of the kernel. This would, in effect, allow for an easy method of conditionally compiling vendor-specific hacks. For example, the F00F hack would be wrapping in an #ifdef defined(I586_CPU) && (CPU_INTEL) && !defined(CPU_NO_F00F_HACK) /* ... */ #endif pair, and in the kernel you'd see : options CPU_INTEL #Enable Intel Quirks A CPU_vendor tag would be a very clean and easy way to manage these vendor-specific hacks, and it allows us to easily integrate new vendor bugfixes without affecting the people who don't have a processor from that vendor. (For example, all of my FreBSD boxes except for my crash machine are AMD chipsets, and I am soon going to be upgrading that machine to an AMD processor. The Intel F00F bug never affected me, and it never should. Beleive it or not, Club Intel folks, there are a lot more AMD machines out there than you think. :)) On the other hand, on the hypothetical event that an AMD processor bug ever appears, I would like to rest assured that a simple cvsup and recompile with my current config (with a CPU_AMD defined) would have the latest AMD bugfixes. -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 01:33:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA06662 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:33:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06655 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:33:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA28894; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:33:11 -0800 (PST) To: Bruce Evans cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:46:25 +1100." <199712050746.SAA23963@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 01:33:11 -0800 Message-ID: <28890.881314391@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (the magic number at this address is of course 0xNNNNNNed to jump over > the header). Perhaps the boot loader should initialize paging so that > the startup code doesn't need to be written in assembler (to relocate > from low physical memory to high virtual memory). I think we were wondering more about the size constraints on getting a single-stage bootblock to recognize both ELF and a.out images. :-) I know you're a fan of our current boot blocks, but this sounds like more intelligence than can be fit into our existing boot block code. Is there a secret GRUB project going or something that I don't know about? How were the ELFsters planning on booting either type of kernel during the transition period? :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 01:40:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07291 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:40:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07285 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:40:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07910; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:40:06 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712050940.KAA07910@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <28890.881314391@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 5, 97 01:33:11 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:40:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, sos@FreeBSD.dk, dg@root.com, FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jordan K. Hubbard who wrote: > > (the magic number at this address is of course 0xNNNNNNed to jump over > > the header). Perhaps the boot loader should initialize paging so that > > the startup code doesn't need to be written in assembler (to relocate > > from low physical memory to high virtual memory). > > I think we were wondering more about the size constraints on getting a > single-stage bootblock to recognize both ELF and a.out images. :-) > > I know you're a fan of our current boot blocks, but this sounds like > more intelligence than can be fit into our existing boot block code. > Is there a secret GRUB project going or something that I don't know > about? How were the ELFsters planning on booting either type of > kernel during the transition period? :) Hmm, I think we have done it differently... I have bootblocks that reads both formats, but has no bad144 support ... I hope to have more time after Xmas/Newyear, currently I'm having 20+ hour days (we have a release to build at work, due monday), and a week of vacation on the Canaries after that, then it should slowly settle back to normal... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 02:20:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10630 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:20:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA10620 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:20:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA17239; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:15:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd017217; Fri Dec 5 02:14:57 1997 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:12:34 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: weird current behaviour... In-Reply-To: <10662.881306559@critter.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't remember the picture.. what were the drivers? On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <34875CD4.7566F4CF@whistle.com>, Julian Elischer writes: > >All the fast ones only have interrupt context processing. > >the slow ones have a userland context. (the ping process) > >The rc456 programs are finishing up their quantum before allowing the > >ping to run and recieve the response. > > > Wrong. If I ping C from A it works fine. If I ping B from A it > works fine. If I ping D or E from A it works badly. > > In all cases the path is the same... > > I agree that it is somehow related to context switching, but how ? > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 02:23:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10815 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:23:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA10810 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:23:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA28101; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:23:37 -0800 (PST) To: Jonathan Mini cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:34:12 PST." <19971205003412.04149@micron.mini.net> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 02:23:37 -0800 Message-ID: <28097.881317417@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > #ifdef defined(I586_CPU) && (CPU_INTEL) && !defined(CPU_NO_F00F_HACK) /* ... Argh, why did you wait until *now* to raise this point? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 02:32:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA11621 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:32:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA11615 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:32:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08003; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:32:57 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712051032.LAA08003@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks In-Reply-To: <19971205003412.04149@micron.mini.net> from Jonathan Mini at "Dec 5, 97 00:34:12 am" To: j_mini@efn.org Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:32:57 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jonathan Mini who wrote: I don't agree on that, because: Joe Random user should get all the fixes etc that is RELIABILITY related just out of the box. Certain speedups for specific CPU's can be held as option BLA_BLA, as they are not mission critical to a stock system. I know this leads to a certain amount of bloat for some processors, but thats "just too bad".. The way this is now, the FOOF hack is present in kernels with I586_CPU defined, but only enabled on genuine Intel cpu's, exactly as should be... I am sure that if one of the other cpu's have faults (which I'm certain they have :) ), and it makes the system unusable/unsecure/unstable, that code will be integrated too, and will be bloat on the other families as well... Intel is not special here, nor are the others.... > In light of the current F00F bug, and other vendor-specific hacks, such as > the performance tuning for the Curix chipsets and Intel's floating-point bug, > and other items of that issue, I would like to propose adding a set of options > to define the vendor target range of the kernel. > This would, in effect, allow for an easy method of conditionally compiling > vendor-specific hacks. For example, the F00F hack would be wrapping in an > #ifdef defined(I586_CPU) && (CPU_INTEL) && !defined(CPU_NO_F00F_HACK) /* ... */ > #endif pair, and in the kernel you'd see : > > options CPU_INTEL #Enable Intel Quirks > > A CPU_vendor tag would be a very clean and easy way to manage these > vendor-specific hacks, and it allows us to easily integrate new vendor bugfixes > without affecting the people who don't have a processor from that vendor. (For > example, all of my FreBSD boxes except for my crash machine are AMD chipsets, > and I am soon going to be upgrading that machine to an AMD processor. The Intel > F00F bug never affected me, and it never should. Beleive it or not, Club Intel > folks, there are a lot more AMD machines out there than you think. :)) > On the other hand, on the hypothetical event that an AMD processor bug ever > appears, I would like to rest assured that a simple cvsup and recompile with my > current config (with a CPU_AMD defined) would have the latest AMD bugfixes. > > -- > Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions > Software Development P.O. Box 5693, > Eugene, Or. 97405 > > "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 02:38:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA12284 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi (ari@kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi [194.197.169.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA12279 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:38:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ari@kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi) Received: from localhost (ari@localhost) by kn6-045.ktvlpr.inet.fi (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01867; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:37:54 +0200 (EET) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:37:53 +0200 (EET) From: Ari Suutari To: Eivind Eklund cc: Ari Suutari , John Kelly , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <86k9dkegbr.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 5 Dec 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > Ari Suutari writes: > > On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > > > Problem both places, methinks. See if the following fixes it (from > > > aage@aage.priv.no): > > > > > > --- /tmp/natd.c Tue Dec 2 22:24:53 1997 > > > +++ /usr/src/usr.sbin/natd/natd.c Wed Oct 29 22:11:32 1997 > > > @@ -1332,7 +1332,7 @@ > > > > > > port = strtol (str, &end, 10); > > > if (end != str) > > > - return htonl (port); > > > + return htons (port); > > > > > > sp = getservbyname (str, proto); > > > if (!sp) > > > > > > If it does, I'll commit it - it looks correct, and I've got one other > > > favourable report :-) > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > After making this change, it no longer worked > > on 2.2, I guess that it won't work on 3.0 either > > (I didn't have time to check it any futher, I just > > tried it). > > Weird. I've had reports from two users (one that is using natd and > had problems, and Aage Roebekk that actually fixed it) that this > solves a genuine problem. > > Using htonl() on a port number at least seems to be wrong - port > numbers are 16 bits. Signed/unsigned trouble too, perhaps? > > Eivind. > htons works, htonl doesn't. Maybe I didn't read the patch very carefully - my current sources (natd 1.10) used htons and I tried htonl which did not work. Apparently, the version present in -current is not the the same as my 1.10. There seem to be a lot of small changes made by someone. Ari Lappeenranta, Finland From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 02:52:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA13356 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:52:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA13348 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:52:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA04809; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:52:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205025235.38183@micron.mini.net> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 02:52:35 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Cc: j_mini@efn.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks Reply-To: Jonathan Mini References: <19971205003412.04149@micron.mini.net> <199712051032.LAA08003@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199712051032=2ELAA08003=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Fri=2C_Dec_05=2C_1997_at_11=3A32=3A5?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?7AM_+0100?= X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Søren Schmidt stands accused of saying: > In reply to Jonathan Mini who wrote: > > I don't agree on that, because: > > Joe Random user should get all the fixes etc that is RELIABILITY related > just out of the box. Certain speedups for specific CPU's can be held > as option BLA_BLA, as they are not mission critical to a stock system. I am not talking about perormance boost code specifically, nor peformance tuning, but rather bug hacks and any similar things which are required for security reasons. (or whatever) The "enabled by default" options need to be easily disableable in groups, and the easiest and most extendable way to do that is to break them in to processor classification. We have half of the classification already : the processor class, but we don't have the the other half, which is chip vendor. > I know this leads to a certain amount of bloat for some processors, but > thats "just too bad".. This is my point : why should they bloat the other family's unnecissarily? In most situations, the options will be left in the kernel, so the code will be the same as it is now, but for those of us users who are intelligent enough ot know that what kind of processor we have, it would be better to not punish us. > The way this is now, the FOOF hack is present in kernels with I586_CPU > defined, but only enabled on genuine Intel cpu's, exactly as should be... Yes and no. It still is present, and it still does cause some execution, even if it is only a few if statements in trap.c. My point is that this shouldn't happen. (whether or not this is an issue is not my point. My point is that we need to classify these types of hacks in an extendable matter. I am looking 'to the future' here, not at an an immediate Intel-oops) > I am sure that if one of the other cpu's have faults (which I'm certain > they have :) ), and it makes the system unusable/unsecure/unstable, that > code will be integrated too, and will be bloat on the other families > as well... Intel is not special here, nor are the others.... Your point of all processors being equal because they all cause bloat is not the issue here. I am not aruging that Intel is special, I am arguing that Intel code is bloating a Cyrix or an Amd system. If Amd code were bloating an Intel system, I would be just as annoyed. > > In light of the current F00F bug, and other vendor-specific hacks, such as > > the performance tuning for the Curix chipsets and Intel's floating-point bug, > > and other items of that issue, I would like to propose adding a set of options > > to define the vendor target range of the kernel. > > This would, in effect, allow for an easy method of conditionally compiling > > vendor-specific hacks. For example, the F00F hack would be wrapping in an > > #ifdef defined(I586_CPU) && (CPU_INTEL) && !defined(CPU_NO_F00F_HACK) /* ... */ > > #endif pair, and in the kernel you'd see : > > > > options CPU_INTEL #Enable Intel Quirks > > > > A CPU_vendor tag would be a very clean and easy way to manage these > > vendor-specific hacks, and it allows us to easily integrate new vendor bugfixes > > without affecting the people who don't have a processor from that vendor. (For > > example, all of my FreBSD boxes except for my crash machine are AMD chipsets, > > and I am soon going to be upgrading that machine to an AMD processor. The Intel > > F00F bug never affected me, and it never should. Beleive it or not, Club Intel > > folks, there are a lot more AMD machines out there than you think. :)) > > On the other hand, on the hypothetical event that an AMD processor bug ever > > appears, I would like to rest assured that a simple cvsup and recompile with my > > current config (with a CPU_AMD defined) would have the latest AMD bugfixes. > > > > -- > > Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions > > Software Development P.O. Box 5693, > > Eugene, Or. 97405 > > > > "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 03:03:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA14106 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:03:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from fanfic.org (fanfic.org [205.150.35.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA14089 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:03:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Received: from localhost (dstenn@localhost) by fanfic.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA01000 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:03:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:03:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dennis Tenn To: FreeBSD-current Subject: SB AWE64 support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Before I begin I'd like to apologize if this is the wrong list to be posting to. Has anyone been able to get this card to work under FreeBSD 2.2.x or 3.0? I've tried to install it with the new audio drivers found on Luigi Rizzo's homepage as well as the FAQ found on many pages outlining the installation and setup of various cards. The program pnpinfo identifies my soundcard but the card is recognized by my PnP BIOS but when it's booting the card doesn't initialize. I've tested the card with Win95, where I also checked the settings and it all seems fine but the version of FreeBSD 3.0-SNAP I have installed doesn't seem to like it. Here is what I have in my dmsg.boot file: Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-971130-SNAP #0: Fri Dec 5 01:23:31 EST 1997 root@fanfic.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/FANFIC CPU: Cyrix 6x86 (486-class CPU) Origin = "CyrixInstead" DIR=0x1731 Stepping=1 Revision=7 real memory = 67108864 (65536K bytes) avail memory = 62775296 (61304K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x01 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.1 chip2: rev 0x01 int d irq 10 on pci0.7.2 chip3: rev 0x01 on pci0.7.3 vga0: rev 0x01 int a irq 9 on pci0.9.0 ncr0: rev 0x12 int a irq 10 on pci0.12.0 ncr0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ncr0 bus 0 scbus0 target 6 lun 0: type 5 removable SCSI2 cd0 at scbus0 target 6 lun 0 cd0: CD-ROM cd0: asynchronous. cd present [310570 x 2048 byte records] Probing for PnP devices: CSN 1 Vendor ID: CTL00e4 [0xe4008c0e] Serial 0x1d10fcdf Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x240-0x25f irq 11 maddr 0xd0000 msize 8192 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:87:dc:b9, type SMC8416C/SMC8416BT (16 bit) sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 2015MB (4127760 sectors), 4095 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S npx0 flags 0x1 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface sb_reset_dsp failed sb0 not found at 0x220 sb_reset_dsp failed sbxvi0 not found sbmidi0 not found at 0x330 opl0 not found at 0x388 awe0 at 0x620 on isa AWE32 not found AWE32: not detected The PnP recognition seems to detect the card: Probing for PnP devices: CSN 1 Vendor ID: CTL00e4 [0xe4008c0e] Serial 0x1d10fcdf But the soundcard doesn't initialize even though I've added these lines to my kernel config file and built my new kernel but the above was the result. options "SBC_BASE=0x220" options "SBC_IRQ=5" options "SBC_DMA=1" controller pnp0 controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 device awe0 at isa? port 0x620 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dennis Tenn * There will always come a time dstenn@fanfic.org * When your love will be tested * Stand tall and rise to the occasion * For only then will you grow strong. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 03:30:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA15997 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:30:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA15961 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:29:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id MAA27529 for current@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:15:15 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA00635; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:09:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Message-ID: <19971205120941.38879@klemm.gtn.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:09:41 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: -current SMP kernel: trap 12 page fault while in kernel mode Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tyan Titan PRO ATX, 2 PPro 200 MHz, 64 MB RAM After getting newest kernel changes this morning about 10am CET Stopped at _generic_bzero+0xf: repe stosl %es:(%edi) > t _generic_bzero(0) at _generic_bzero+0xf _main(framep=f0b1cfb8 at _main+0x9e[../../kern/init_main.c 204] begin(0) at begin+0x4a -- Andreas Klemm powered by ,,symmetric multiprocessor FreeBSD'' From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 03:38:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16618 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:38:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-49.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA16613; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:38:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id DAA05244; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:38:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:38:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712051138.DAA05244@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: ports@FreeBSD.ORG CC: toasty@home.dragondata.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <28074.881287489@time.cdrom.com> (jkh@time.cdrom.com) Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * What do folks think of all this? I think the Dual PII-300 + 10-disk CCD array (Seagate Cheetah's, right?) is a great idea. :) For the rest, let me think about it. (Actually, I've been thinking about it since the last release, but haven't came up with anything usable yet.) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 03:55:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18088 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:55:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA18081 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25973; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:55:08 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:55:06 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Dennis Tenn cc: FreeBSD-current Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Dennis Tenn wrote: > awe0 at 0x620 on isa > AWE32 not found > AWE32: not detected > I have the same problems with SB32 PnP (with AWE32), it seems that AWE lacks of some initialization 'cause it work under Win95. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 03:59:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18306 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:59:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA18295 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:58:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08216; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:59:10 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712051159.MAA08216@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks In-Reply-To: <19971205025235.38183@micron.mini.net> from Jonathan Mini at "Dec 5, 97 02:52:35 am" To: j_mini@efn.org Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:59:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@freebsd.org (FreeBSD current) From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jonathan Mini who wrote: > Søren Schmidt stands accused of saying: > > > I know this leads to a certain amount of bloat for some processors, but > > thats "just too bad".. > > This is my point : why should they bloat the other family's unnecissarily? > In most situations, the options will be left in the kernel, so the code will be > the same as it is now, but for those of us users who are intelligent enough ot > know that what kind of processor we have, it would be better to not punish us. You surely is intelligent enough to compile with option NO_FOOF_HACK then ?? Or whatever it is you dont want... > Your point of all processors being equal because they all cause bloat is not > the issue here. I am not aruging that Intel is special, I am arguing that > Intel code is bloating a Cyrix or an Amd system. If Amd code were bloating an > Intel system, I would be just as annoyed. No I'm argueing that you allready have the option of not including the hacks, its just a matter of HOW its done, and I think the current method covers it pretty well... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 04:01:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA18591 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:01:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from fanfic.org (fanfic.org [205.150.35.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18577 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Received: from localhost (dstenn@localhost) by fanfic.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA00282; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:01:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:01:26 -0500 (EST) From: Dennis Tenn To: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= cc: FreeBSD-current Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA18583 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, [KOI8-R] áÎÄÒÅÊ þÅÒÎÏ× wrote: > > awe0 at 0x620 on isa > > AWE32 not found > > AWE32: not detected > > > > I have the same problems with SB32 PnP (with AWE32), it seems > that AWE lacks of some initialization 'cause it work under Win95. But your soundcard is working at least, right? My problem is it won't recognize mine at all. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dennis Tenn * There will always come a time dstenn@fanfic.org * When your love will be tested * Stand tall and rise to the occasion * For only then will you grow strong. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 04:23:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA20426 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:23:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA20420 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13191; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:00:25 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id NAA09299; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:47:16 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id NAA11529; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:22:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971205132203.49200@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:22:03 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Steve Passe Cc: FreeBSD-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <19971204234716.16993@vmunix.com> <199712050501.WAA16328@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199712050501.WAA16328@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com>; from Steve Passe on Thu, Dec 04, 1997 at 10:01:47PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve Passe writes: > > Another person is working on a web service to register hardware configurations, > mptables, etc, along with history tracking of the problems encountered. > Hopefully enough people out there will pop for dual systems to fill up > our database! Great -- I think we should _really_ have a show of hands -- I mean, SMP is probably one of the only places where just about ALL users read the list (not like -current users who read -announce :-). The web service mentioned by Steve should give us a good base. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 04:45:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA21762 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:45:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA21752 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:45:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA23064; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:43:24 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712051143.MAA23064@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support To: dstenn@fanfic.org (Dennis Tenn) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:43:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dennis Tenn" at Dec 5, 97 06:03:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anyone been able to get this card to work under FreeBSD 2.2.x or 3.0? > > I've tried to install it with the new audio drivers found on Luigi Rizzo's > homepage as well as the FAQ found on many pages outlining the installation > and setup of various cards. The program pnpinfo identifies my soundcard maybe the card is not initialized. You should attach the pnpinfo output, and maybe you should use the manual config commands available with boot -c, something along the lines of pnp 1 0 port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 Luigi From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 04:47:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA21894 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:47:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA21883 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:47:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA23073; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:52 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712051144.MAA23073@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support To: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: dstenn@fanfic.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=" at Dec 5, 97 02:54:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Dennis Tenn wrote: > > > awe0 at 0x620 on isa > > AWE32 not found > > AWE32: not detected > > > > I have the same problems with SB32 PnP (with AWE32), it seems > that AWE lacks of some initialization 'cause it work under Win95. I don't remember well but i think you have to do something like pnp 1 X os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20 from the userconfig menu. For some reason the AWE code seems to use all three ports. Luigi From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 04:49:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA22112 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA22105 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 04:49:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id GAA05150 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:49:04 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id GAA00607; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:49:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205064904.04469@mcs.net> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:49:04 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: current@freebsd.org Subject: RAIDFrame? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone gotten this to build and link on FreeBSD? -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 05:00:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA23191 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:00:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from fanfic.org (fanfic.org [205.150.35.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA23183 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:00:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Received: from localhost (dstenn@localhost) by fanfic.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA03586; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:59:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 07:59:47 -0500 (EST) From: Dennis Tenn To: Luigi Rizzo cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support In-Reply-To: <199712051143.MAA23064@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > Has anyone been able to get this card to work under FreeBSD 2.2.x or 3.0? > > > > I've tried to install it with the new audio drivers found on Luigi Rizzo's > > homepage as well as the FAQ found on many pages outlining the installation > > and setup of various cards. The program pnpinfo identifies my soundcard > > maybe the card is not initialized. You should attach the pnpinfo > output, and maybe you should use the manual config commands available > with boot -c, something along the lines of > > pnp 1 0 port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 Is this supposed to be typed in on boot? When it prompts you for options? I tried typing it in on boot and it wouldn't work. Where am I supposed to put this info? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dennis Tenn * There will always come a time dstenn@fanfic.org * When your love will be tested * Stand tall and rise to the occasion * For only then will you grow strong. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 05:08:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA23911 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA23905 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:08:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA23176; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:06:33 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712051206.NAA23176@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support To: dstenn@fanfic.org (Dennis Tenn) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:06:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dennis Tenn" at Dec 5, 97 07:59:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > pnp 1 0 port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 > > Is this supposed to be typed in on boot? When it prompts you for options? > I tried typing it in on boot and it wouldn't work. Where am I supposed to > put this info? boot -c , enter the line-mode kernel config utility, and type pnp 1 0 os enable port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 to make the kernel override any PnP configuration made by the bios for that card (i forgot to mention 'os enable' in the previous posting). If you have updated /sbin/dset this modification will be recorded in the kernel permanently, so you need to do it only once. luigi From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 05:31:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA25346 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from fanfic.org (fanfic.org [205.150.35.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA25340 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Received: from localhost (dstenn@localhost) by fanfic.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00357; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:31:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:31:27 -0500 (EST) From: Dennis Tenn To: Luigi Rizzo cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support In-Reply-To: <199712051206.NAA23176@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > > > > pnp 1 0 port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 > > > > Is this supposed to be typed in on boot? When it prompts you for options? > > I tried typing it in on boot and it wouldn't work. Where am I supposed to > > put this info? > > boot -c , enter the line-mode kernel config utility, and type > > pnp 1 0 os enable port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 > > to make the kernel override any PnP configuration made by the bios for > that card (i forgot to mention 'os enable' in the previous posting). > > If you have updated /sbin/dset this modification will be recorded in > the kernel permanently, so you need to do it only once. I entered the config utility and typed exactly what you had above. The soundcard is partially working now. Thanks. Now this is what I get. sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa snd0: sbxvi0 at ? drq 5 on isa snd0: sbmidi0 not found at 0x330 opl0 not found at 0x388 awe0 at 0x620 on isa AWE32 not found AWE32: not detected Any suggestions? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dennis Tenn * There will always come a time dstenn@fanfic.org * When your love will be tested * Stand tall and rise to the occasion * For only then will you grow strong. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 05:36:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA25807 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:36:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from fanfic.org (fanfic.org [205.150.35.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA25802 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 05:36:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Received: from localhost (dstenn@localhost) by fanfic.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00367; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:36:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dstenn@fanfic.org) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:36:17 -0500 (EST) From: Dennis Tenn To: Luigi Rizzo cc: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support In-Reply-To: <199712051144.MAA23073@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > awe0 at 0x620 on isa > > > AWE32 not found > > > AWE32: not detected > > > > > > > I have the same problems with SB32 PnP (with AWE32), it seems > > that AWE lacks of some initialization 'cause it work under Win95. > > I don't remember well but i think you have to do something like > > pnp 1 X os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20 > > from the userconfig menu. > For some reason the AWE code seems to use all three ports. I've already entered the command... pnp 1 0 os enable port0 0x220 irq0 5 drq0 1 drq1 5 so does the X supposed to represent an incremental number? eg. pnp 1 1 os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20 Would I also need to type in similar commands to enable midi and opl? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dennis Tenn * There will always come a time dstenn@fanfic.org * When your love will be tested * Stand tall and rise to the occasion * For only then will you grow strong. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 08:36:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11599 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p17.tfs.net [139.146.205.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11574 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:36:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA00424 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:36:21 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712051636.KAA00424@unix.tfs.net> Subject: sc0 scrollback flaw To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:36:20 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk hmmm... i just rebuilt using the SC_HISTORY_SIZE option for sc [good idea, it was always a pain in the ass hacking up syscons.h to do this]. there seems to be an undesireable new behavior for the sc scrollback facility.. one of the functions in my .login is a `clear` to clear the console when i log in. this seems to erase the entire scrollback buffer. the old behavior was to ignore screen clears in the buffer. i'm still running the Dec. 2 version of -current, but will be cvsupping the latest in a few minutes... i can take a look at syscons.c, and see if i can find where this is happening... on another note, how about adding config options to change these via config options [if you go through the trouble to put them in structs instead of hard-coding them, you may as well make them easily configurable]: static default_attr user_default = { (FG_CYAN | BG_BLACK) << 8, (FG_BLUE | BG_LIGHTGREY) << 8 }; static default_attr kernel_default = { (FG_YELLOW | BG_BLACK) << 8, (FG_RED | BG_LIGHTGREY) << 8 }; jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 09:32:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16571 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:32:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from helmholtz.salk.edu (helmholtz.salk.edu [198.202.70.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA16521; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:31:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bartol@salk.edu) Received: from dale.salk.edu (dale [198.202.70.112]) by helmholtz.salk.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10372; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:29:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Bartol To: Karl Denninger cc: Bill Paul , dyson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mmap() + NFS == &*$%@$!!! In-Reply-To: <19971128230503.28898@mcs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk FYI, Replacing version 1.44 of /sys/nfs/nfs_bio.c with version 1.41 as described below fixed the "Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode" error that I had been getting frequently while running pine (my /var/mail is an NFS mounted filesystem). NFS read and write performance were not affected by backing out to version 1.41 (to the best of my ability to measure performance). Tom On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Karl Denninger wrote: > Try using "cvs update -r1.41 nfs_bio.c" in your "sys/nfs" directory and > rebuild the kernel, then see if the problem goes away. > > There are some SERIOUS willies in versions of that file after 1.41. > > -- > -- > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service > | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost > > On Fri, Nov 28, 1997 at 11:11:11PM -0500, Bill Paul wrote: > > I did a quick install of the Nov. 28th -current snapshot to test a few > > NIS+ related things and ran into a problem using mmap() with NFS. The > > problem is that it's apparently not too hard at all to wedge either a > > process or the entire system when using mmap() with files on a remote > > NFS filesystem. > > > > -Bill > > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 09:37:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17271 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17257; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:37:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA00879; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:37:08 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id LAA28068; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:37:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205113707.33845@mcs.net> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:37:07 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Tom Bartol Cc: Bill Paul , dyson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mmap() + NFS == &*$%@$!!! References: <19971128230503.28898@mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: ; from Tom Bartol on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 09:29:31AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yep. I'm running with 1.41 of that file here as well. Later versions are NOT stable. Frankly, I'm surprised that John or someone else hasn't backed out the commits beyond 1.41 by now - this is an old problem, dating back a few months. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 09:29:31AM -0800, Tom Bartol wrote: > > FYI, > > Replacing version 1.44 of /sys/nfs/nfs_bio.c with version 1.41 as > described below fixed the "Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode" > error that I had been getting frequently while running pine (my /var/mail > is an NFS mounted filesystem). NFS read and write performance were not > affected by backing out to version 1.41 (to the best of my ability to > measure performance). > > Tom > > > On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > Try using "cvs update -r1.41 nfs_bio.c" in your "sys/nfs" directory and > > rebuild the kernel, then see if the problem goes away. > > > > There are some SERIOUS willies in versions of that file after 1.41. > > > > -- > > -- > > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin > > http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service > > | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems > > Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS > > Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost > > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 1997 at 11:11:11PM -0500, Bill Paul wrote: > > > I did a quick install of the Nov. 28th -current snapshot to test a few > > > NIS+ related things and ran into a problem using mmap() with NFS. The > > > problem is that it's apparently not too hard at all to wedge either a > > > process or the entire system when using mmap() with files on a remote > > > NFS filesystem. > > > > > > -Bill > > > > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 09:38:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17433 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17388; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:38:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id MAA02167; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:37:50 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712051737.MAA02167@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: mmap() + NFS == &*$%@$!!! In-Reply-To: from Tom Bartol at "Dec 5, 97 09:29:31 am" To: bartol@salk.edu (Tom Bartol) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:37:49 -0500 (EST) Cc: karl@mcs.net, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, dyson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Tom Bartol said: > > FYI, > > Replacing version 1.44 of /sys/nfs/nfs_bio.c with version 1.41 as > described below fixed the "Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode" > error that I had been getting frequently while running pine (my /var/mail > is an NFS mounted filesystem). NFS read and write performance were not > affected by backing out to version 1.41 (to the best of my ability to > measure performance). > If no-one else works on it before Saturday, I'll see what I can do to take your suggestion on -current. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 09:43:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17993 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:43:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17966; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:43:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id MAA02195; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:43:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712051743.MAA02195@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: mmap() + NFS == &*$%@$!!! In-Reply-To: <19971205113707.33845@mcs.net> from Karl Denninger at "Dec 5, 97 11:37:07 am" To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:43:16 -0500 (EST) Cc: bartol@salk.edu, wpaul@skynet.ctr.columbia.edu, dyson@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Karl Denninger said: > > Yep. I'm running with 1.41 of that file here as well. Later versions are > NOT stable. Frankly, I'm surprised that John or someone else hasn't backed > out the commits beyond 1.41 by now - this is an old problem, dating back a > few months. > It definitely has been a festering problem. I have been working on other things, and will work the issue super-soon. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 10:13:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20916 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:13:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20910 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21978; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:11:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199712051811.KAA21978@austin.polstra.com> To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Heads up: recent ld.so changes broke emacs In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 08:30:09 +0100." <10740.881307009@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 10:11:38 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >that mean? It copies its address space out to a file, and fakes > >up an a.out header at the beginning of it so that the file can be > >executed directly. That file becomes the emacs that is installed. > > What happens to malloc's mmap'ed page-table ? There isn't one, because emacs contains its own malloc. :-) John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 10:29:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22251 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:29:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mailhost.shellnet.co.uk (mailhost.shellnet.co.uk [194.129.209.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA22233 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:29:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk) Received: by mailhost.shellnet.co.uk with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3-Server (v2.10) for at Fri, 5 Dec 97 18:22:19 +0000 Reply-To: "Steven Fletcher" From: "Steven Fletcher" To: Subject: Telnet Root access Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:24:00 -0000 Message-ID: <01bd01aa$f4f35de0$09d181c2@user2.shellnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've just installed FreeBSD 2.2.5 via FTP, and I can telnet into the machine using any other user than root. The prompt simply says that the login fails, but any other users is OK. I've check capitalisation, but I'm not sure why this is happening. If anyone has any ideas, please reply Thanks. Steven Fletcher steven@shellnet.co.uk From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 11:41:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29671 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:41:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from home.dragondata.com (toasty@home.dragondata.com [204.137.237.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29663 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:41:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toasty@home.dragondata.com) Received: (from toasty@localhost) by home.dragondata.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA18863; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:41:04 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Day Message-Id: <199712051941.NAA18863@home.dragondata.com> Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <01bd01aa$f4f35de0$09d181c2@user2.shellnet.co.uk> from Steven Fletcher at "Dec 5, 97 06:24:00 pm" To: ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:41:04 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I've just installed FreeBSD 2.2.5 via FTP, and I can telnet into the machine > using any other user than root. The prompt simply says that the login fails, > but any other users is OK. I've check capitalisation, but I'm not sure why > this is happening. > > If anyone has any ideas, please reply > > Thanks. > Steven Fletcher > steven@shellnet.co.uk > > > You can't telnet in as root, as pty's aren't considered 'secure'. You have to telnet in as a user, then su. Kevin From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 12:05:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02125 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:05:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02072; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:04:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09030; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:14:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd008988; Fri Dec 5 13:14:25 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16482; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:04:13 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712052004.NAA16482@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: ports@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:04:13 +0000 (GMT) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, toasty@home.dragondata.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <28074.881287489@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Dec 4, 97 06:04:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The second thing I think we need to consider is that in the longer > term, I can easily see a day where the ports and packages collection > have grown to the point where decoupling them from the primary FreeBSD > releases becomes essential in order that the "base system" remain > reasonably priced. This would also allow the ports collection to move > at its own release schedule, perhaps doing only 2 - 3 releases a year > and published in a format closer to Rich Morin's well known Prime Time > Freeware for UNIX CDs (http://www.ptf.com/ptf/products/UNIX). They > come with a nifty printed book containing alphabetized short > descriptions so you can look something up quickly before wasting your > time mounting the wrong CD, and I think the ports & packages > collection should do exactly the same thing. I like this. I think that there should be coordination with the OpenBSD and NetBSD folks to make sure they are usable "out of the box" for them as well. It could become simply "The BSD ports collection". You may want to coordinate with BSDI, if at all possible... This should probably wait for ELF, though, since all the other BSD's are ELF now... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 12:10:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02850 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:10:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from hobbes.saturn-tech.com (drussell@drussell.internode.net [198.161.228.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02842 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by hobbes.saturn-tech.com (8.8.4/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA26898; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:07:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:07:39 -0700 (MST) From: Doug Russell To: Jonathan Mini cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks In-Reply-To: <19971205025235.38183@micron.mini.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jonathan Mini wrote: > Your point of all processors being equal because they all cause bloat is not > the issue here. I am not aruging that Intel is special, I am arguing that > Intel code is bloating a Cyrix or an Amd system. If Amd code were bloating an > Intel system, I would be just as annoyed. I think this is a valid point. You don't compile the 386 or 486 processor types into your PPRO kernel because you don't want all that extra code. It all becomes a question of how fine you make the distinctions. Is a K6 a souped up Pentium, or is it a K6? I think you are right in figuring that we are only going more and more in the direction of having more classes of CPU. It makes sense that at some point it would be better to make a better distinction than 386/486/586/686. Now, whether it is best to say 586 && AMD, or just call it a K6, I don't know, but, I think it's worth thinking about. Just because it is only a couple extra lines of code NOW, it's probably going to get "worse" as time goes on. :) Later...... From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 12:21:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03780 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:21:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA03751; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id MAA03154; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:19:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA11678; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199712052006.MAA11678@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <28074.881287489@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 4, 97 06:04:49 pm" To: ports@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:06:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu, toasty@home.dragondata.com, nate@mt.sri.com, jak@cetlink.net, current@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > > > Regarding ports and packages in general, I think that we also need to > start looking *really seriously* at the idea of a "multi-volume" > ports/packages collection, since a need to split them across at least > 2 locations has already been the case since 2.2.5. Even if you prune > and chop and tweak like mad for 3.0, I can guarantee you that the > packages won't all fit in 650MB [see note]. :-) Let me run some thoughts and questions up the flagpole, Jordan. We could try these for a year or so since there really isn't any easy way of market-researching this. Two types of FreeBSD RELEASE: one would be a 4- to N-CD release at cost+margin. $50 or 50+. This no more than twice a year; these releases would be as before with everything available. The second type of RELEASE would probably fit onto one CD, the kernel, compilers, source, X11R6 bins. The ports would be in a separate CD package, but source-only. What's the reason for having binary distfiles when--given the proper *.mk files-- everything can be built from the source? > > This means to me that the INDEX file needs to grow at least one more > field for the volume name (or maybe we can just tuck it into the > keywords field, does anyone even use that? :-) and somebody needs to > modify portlint so that a port's volume is checked against its > dependencies, it being an error to put your package outside the same > volume as all the things it depends on. This would allow me to modify > sysinstall to request in turn that the appropriate media be mounted > when asking for a specific package that isn't on the current media. Yes! This is why I pull things off the net _only_. > > To think about: Should we also implement a volume-to-media mapping > file which allows the installation to build a menu of valid choices > based on the media types the user has available and the "map" of where > the packages are available, be that anything from "CD:WC/3" to > "ftp://ftp.jp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/packages/japan-latest"? > Thinking ahead to where we've got potentially 4000-5000 packages, with > an average size of 500K for packages the whole collection is going to > be easily 2GB or more. I could see where it might become distributed > more geographically, or from a more limited number of servers than > supply the distribution bits, and we're going to need to account > for that somehow. It's time to consider this point in some depth. It is fantastic to see us growing internationally. As time passes, most of the programs will probably originate in the non-English, non-Latinate corners of the globe and have to be ported from, say, Chinese to English. The non-English sites would carry packages in their language. With links to other geographic sites. By the time we are this diverse, hopefully the DVD drives will solve the space|packing problem so that a RELEASE will again fit onto 1 or 2 platters. > > Doing this would also allow Walnut Creek CDROM to see just how much > revenue the ports collection alone generated, and as a new product I'm > pretty confident that I could negotiate in advance that a slice of the > pie from every ports collection CD sale go into a special "support the > ports collection project fund" (over and above money already given to > FreeBSD.org) from which we could buy Satoshi and crew a package > building machine from hell, among other periodic goodies. :-) [and > I've been thinking of some nice 10 drive CCD array configurations > which would really do the job nicely when mated with a dual-processor > PII-300. ;)] What would it take to get a ports platform up. With a T1 line? Could we do build+test on that box as well as our own? I've run into unfathomable built problems with several ports retrieved from freefall/ports and have given up? Having one unified site to work with would give us the opportunity to do a port right. Obviate lots of head-banging and digging into build problems. These last two paragraphs are off-topic. Feedback on the above, people?? gary > > What do folks think of all this? > > Jordan > > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 12:23:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04013 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:23:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from tgn2.tgn.net (root@tgn2.tgn.net [205.241.85.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04006 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gemohler@tgn2.tgn.net) Received: (from gemohler@localhost) by tgn2.tgn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11185; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:22:12 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:22:12 -0600 (CST) From: Geoff Mohler To: Steven Fletcher cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <01bd01aa$f4f35de0$09d181c2@user2.shellnet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Steven Fletcher wrote: > I've just installed FreeBSD 2.2.5 via FTP, and I can telnet into the machine > using any other user than root. The prompt simply says that the login fails, > but any other users is OK. I've check capitalisation, but I'm not sure why > this is happening. > > If anyone has any ideas, please reply Its happening because thats called security. You should never ever telnet to a box as root, always force yourself (and others on your box) to maintain valid accounts to do all of thier work from. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 12:45:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06580 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:45:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06569 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:45:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA05825; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma005817; Fri Dec 5 12:45:00 1997 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA22735; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:59 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199712052044.MAA22735@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Telnet Root access In-Reply-To: <01bd01aa$f4f35de0$09d181c2@user2.shellnet.co.uk> from Steven Fletcher at "Dec 5, 97 06:24:00 pm" To: ircadmin@shellnet.co.uk Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steven Fletcher writes: > I've just installed FreeBSD 2.2.5 via FTP, and I can telnet into the machine > using any other user than root. The prompt simply says that the login fails, > but any other users is OK. I've check capitalisation, but I'm not sure why > this is happening. Edit /etc/ttys and add "secure" to the pseudo-terminal lines? This is not a freebsd-current question, btw. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 13:19:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10096 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:19:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p33.tfs.net [139.146.205.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10083 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:19:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) id PAA00957 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:19:46 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199712052119.PAA00957@unix.tfs.net> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:19:45 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Mon Dec 1 15:51:40 CST 1997 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > > The second thing I think we need to consider is that in the longer > > term, I can easily see a day where the ports and packages collection > > have grown to the point where decoupling them from the primary FreeBSD > > releases becomes essential in order that the "base system" remain > > reasonably priced. This would also allow the ports collection to move > > at its own release schedule, perhaps doing only 2 - 3 releases a year > > and published in a format closer to Rich Morin's well known Prime Time > > Freeware for UNIX CDs (http://www.ptf.com/ptf/products/UNIX). They > > come with a nifty printed book containing alphabetized short > > descriptions so you can look something up quickly before wasting your > > time mounting the wrong CD, and I think the ports & packages > > collection should do exactly the same thing. > > > I like this. I think that there should be coordination with the > OpenBSD and NetBSD folks to make sure they are usable "out of the box" > for them as well. It could become simply "The BSD ports collection". > > You may want to coordinate with BSDI, if at all possible... > > This should probably wait for ELF, though, since all the other BSD's > are ELF now... hmmmm... skip BSDI. they want to charge absurd amounts, so make them pay for their own ports.. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 14:05:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA15246 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:05:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15232 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:05:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20929; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:34:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd020894; Fri Dec 5 08:34:04 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25204; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:04:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712052204.PAA25204@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: RAIDFrame? To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:04:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19971205064904.04469@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Dec 5, 97 06:49:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyone gotten this to build and link on FreeBSD? URL, please. AltaVista has never heard of it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 14:14:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA15917 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:14:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15912 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:14:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06641; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:06:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd006639; Fri Dec 5 14:06:35 1997 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:04:11 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Ari Suutari cc: Eivind Eklund , John Kelly , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a mess. I am half way through making up some patches to fix it properly. (literally I have a window at work with the half-editted sources on it :) htons will correctly smash up the lower 16 bits of a long under a little-endian OS. so using htons, while being totoally un-portable will probably work, but htonl will do the correct thing, and the lower 16 bits of the port will become 0. The correct answer is to change teh port numbers where-ever they are in natd to be unsigned short. I am doing this.. I'll add the changes in a few days. julian > > htons works, htonl doesn't. Maybe I didn't read the patch > very carefully - my current sources (natd 1.10) used > htons and I tried htonl which did not work. > > Apparently, the version present in -current is not the > the same as my 1.10. There seem to be a lot of small > changes made by someone. > > Ari > Lappeenranta, Finland > > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 14:34:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18010 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18002 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:34:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA27804; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:34:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id QAA24767; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:34:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19971205163442.52313@mcs.net> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:34:42 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Terry Lambert Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RAIDFrame? References: <19971205064904.04469@mcs.net> <199712052204.PAA25204@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199712052204.PAA25204@usr09.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 10:04:41PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 10:04:41PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > Anyone gotten this to build and link on FreeBSD? > > URL, please. AltaVista has never heard of it. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. http://www.pdl.cs.cmu.edu/RAIDframe/ -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 14:39:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18348 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:39:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18326; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 14:39:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA17434; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:16:39 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id AAA10044; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:03:32 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id XAA02195; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:38:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971205233816.15333@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:38:16 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Terry Lambert Cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <28074.881287489@time.cdrom.com> <199712052004.NAA16482@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199712052004.NAA16482@usr08.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Fri, Dec 05, 1997 at 08:04:13PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [maintaining post to both -ports and -current -- IMHO it is relevant] Terry Lambert writes: > > I like this. I think that there should be coordination with the > OpenBSD and NetBSD folks to make sure they are usable "out of the box" > for them as well. It could become simply "The BSD ports collection". YES! I definitely agree with this idea -- since OpenBSD already uses the ports... Having a common set of CD's / archives that any *BSD user could pull buy / pull down from the net would certainly increase the "presence" as marketdroids like to call it. > You may want to coordinate with BSDI, if at all possible... Hmmm. It does seem that there hasn't been so much cooperation with BSDI since doscmd was donated... > This should probably wait for ELF, though, since all the other BSD's > are ELF now... Argh. Now my question :-) -- apart from our ports/package system, there also exists at least 2 other package systems out there (all Linux): - debian package (with hard/soft dependencies scheme) - RedHat And I know we have the "rpm" tool in /usr/port/misc. How difficult/sick/twisted would it be to have some kind of skeleton like "ports" which would be a superset of wrappers for RPM/Debian _packages_ (not so many, only the binary stuff we can't get in source), and then go into the "/usr/ports/blah/foo" and do make, just like we did when BSDI Netscape was in ports ? (or even better: pkg_add ApplixWare-x.x.rpm) ? I'll go and take my pills now. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 15:08:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20896 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:08:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20891 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 15:08:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id SAA26858; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:10:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971205180959.01737@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:09:59 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: 128 PCI buses... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hey, I've just installed -current for the first time in ages on my PPro system. Everything works fine, except the boot tries to detect devices on 128 PCI buses.. Needless to say, I don't have that many :-) Only 1 in fact. Is this normal?? I've attached a desg output below.. Everything works peachy, but the boot-up is surprising when the 128 PCI probes go *flying* by! :-) Also, for the new sound code, do you just need a line like this in the kernel config: device pcm0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 flags 0x0 vector pcmintr I have an old SB-16 "classic" - i.e. not plug and play.. The boot messages tell me: mss_probe: no address supplied, try default 0x530 sb_probe: no address supplied, try defaults (0x220,0x240) pcm0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa I'm assuming this means I need more goodies in my config file. I wasn't sure what parts belongs to the "snd0" drivers, and what belonged with the "pcm0" driver.. I didn't put in the plug-n-play stuff either, which I'm assuming I don't need since my sound card isn't plug-n-pray.. TIA, -Mark dmesg output: Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Fri Dec 5 17:44:52 EST 1997 mark@spokane.vmunix.com:/srcs/FreeBSD/src/sys/compile/RingZero CPU: Pentium Pro (150.00-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x611 Stepping=1 Features=0xf9ff real memory = 33554432 (32768K bytes) avail memory = 30990336 (30264K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: ncr0: rev 0x02 int a irq 11 on pci0.1.0 ncr0: waiting for scsi devices to settle scbus0 at ncr0 bus 0 sd0 at scbus0 target 0 lun 0 sd0: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0: Direct-Access sd0: 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) sd1 at scbus0 target 1 lun 0 sd1: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1: Direct-Access sd1: 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) 1030MB (2109840 512 byte sectors) sd2 at scbus0 target 3 lun 0 sd2: type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd2: Direct-Access sd2: 10.0 MB/s (100 ns, offset 8) 6180MB (12657717 512 byte sectors) sd3 at scbus0 target 5 lun 0 sd3: type 0 removable SCSI 2 sd3: Direct-Access sd3: ILLEGAL REQUEST asc:24,0 Invalid field in CDB sd3 could not mode sense (4). Using ficticious geometry 96MB (196608 512 byte sectors) cd0 at scbus0 target 6 lun 0 cd0: type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0: CD-ROM cd0: 4.0 MB/s (250 ns, offset 8) can't get the size chip0: rev 0x88 on pci0.2.0 vga0: rev 0x01 int a irq 9 on pci0.7.0 chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.25.0 Probing for devices on PCI bus 1: Probing for devices on PCI bus 2: Probing for devices on PCI bus 3: Probing for devices on PCI bus 4: Probing for devices on PCI bus 5: Probing for devices on PCI bus 6: Probing for devices on PCI bus 7: Probing for devices on PCI bus 8: Probing for devices on PCI bus 9: Probing for devices on PCI bus 10: Probing for devices on PCI bus 11: Probing for devices on PCI bus 12: Probing for devices on PCI bus 13: Probing for devices on PCI bus 14: Probing for devices on PCI bus 15: Probing for devices on PCI bus 16: Probing for devices on PCI bus 17: Probing for devices on PCI bus 18: Probing for devices on PCI bus 19: Probing for devices on PCI bus 20: Probing for devices on PCI bus 21: Probing for devices on PCI bus 22: Probing for devices on PCI bus 23: Probing for devices on PCI bus 24: Probing for devices on PCI bus 25: Probing for devices on PCI bus 26: Probing for devices on PCI bus 27: Probing for devices on PCI bus 28: Probing for devices on PCI bus 29: Probing for devices on PCI bus 30: Probing for devices on PCI bus 31: Probing for devices on PCI bus 32: Probing for devices on PCI bus 33: Probing for devices on PCI bus 34: Probing for devices on PCI bus 35: Probing for devices on PCI bus 36: Probing for devices on PCI bus 37: Probing for devices on PCI bus 38: Probing for devices on PCI bus 39: Probing for devices on PCI bus 40: Probing for devices on PCI bus 41: Probing for devices on PCI bus 42: Probing for devices on PCI bus 43: Probing for devices on PCI bus 44: Probing for devices on PCI bus 45: Probing for devices on PCI bus 46: Probing for devices on PCI bus 47: Probing for devices on PCI bus 48: Probing for devices on PCI bus 49: Probing for devices on PCI bus 50: Probing for devices on PCI bus 51: Probing for devices on PCI bus 52: Probing for devices on PCI bus 53: Probing for devices on PCI bus 54: Probing for devices on PCI bus 55: Probing for devices on PCI bus 56: Probing for devices on PCI bus 57: Probing for devices on PCI bus 58: Probing for devices on PCI bus 59: Probing for devices on PCI bus 60: Probing for devices on PCI bus 61: Probing for devices on PCI bus 62: Probing for devices on PCI bus 63: Probing for devices on PCI bus 64: Probing for devices on PCI bus 65: Probing for devices on PCI bus 66: Probing for devices on PCI bus 67: Probing for devices on PCI bus 68: Probing for devices on PCI bus 69: Probing for devices on PCI bus 70: Probing for devices on PCI bus 71: Probing for devices on PCI bus 72: Probing for devices on PCI bus 73: Probing for devices on PCI bus 74: Probing for devices on PCI bus 75: Probing for devices on PCI bus 76: Probing for devices on PCI bus 77: Probing for devices on PCI bus 78: Probing for devices on PCI bus 79: Probing for devices on PCI bus 80: Probing for devices on PCI bus 81: Probing for devices on PCI bus 82: Probing for devices on PCI bus 83: Probing for devices on PCI bus 84: Probing for devices on PCI bus 85: Probing for devices on PCI bus 86: Probing for devices on PCI bus 87: Probing for devices on PCI bus 88: Probing for devices on PCI bus 89: Probing for devices on PCI bus 90: Probing for devices on PCI bus 91: Probing for devices on PCI bus 92: Probing for devices on PCI bus 93: Probing for devices on PCI bus 94: Probing for devices on PCI bus 95: Probing for devices on PCI bus 96: Probing for devices on PCI bus 97: Probing for devices on PCI bus 98: Probing for devices on PCI bus 99: Probing for devices on PCI bus 100: Probing for devices on PCI bus 101: Probing for devices on PCI bus 102: Probing for devices on PCI bus 103: Probing for devices on PCI bus 104: Probing for devices on PCI bus 105: Probing for devices on PCI bus 106: Probing for devices on PCI bus 107: Probing for devices on PCI bus 108: Probing for devices on PCI bus 109: Probing for devices on PCI bus 110: Probing for devices on PCI bus 111: Probing for devices on PCI bus 112: Probing for devices on PCI bus 113: Probing for devices on PCI bus 114: Probing for devices on PCI bus 115: Probing for devices on PCI bus 116: Probing for devices on PCI bus 117: Probing for devices on PCI bus 118: Probing for devices on PCI bus 119: Probing for devices on PCI bus 120: Probing for devices on PCI bus 121: Probing for devices on PCI bus 122: Probing for devices on PCI bus 123: Probing for devices on PCI bus 124: Probing for devices on PCI bus 125: Probing for devices on PCI bus 126: Probing for devices on PCI bus 127: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x300-0x31f irq 10 on isa ed0: address 00:4f:4c:00:70:4f, type NE2000 (16 bit) sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A lpt0 at 0x278-0x27f irq 5 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface psm0 at 0x60-0x64 irq 12 on motherboard psm0: device ID 0 mss_probe: no address supplied, try default 0x530 sb_probe: no address supplied, try defaults (0x220,0x240) pcm0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 16:18:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26636 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from zed.ludd.luth.se (zed.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26620 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gozer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from brother.ludd.luth.se (gozer@brother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.78]) by zed.ludd.luth.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA13834; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:18:04 +0100 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:18:03 +0100 (MET) From: Johan Larsson To: Mark Mayo cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 128 PCI buses... In-Reply-To: <19971205180959.01737@vmunix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Mark Mayo wrote: > Hey, I've just installed -current for the first time in ages on > my PPro system. Everything works fine, except the boot > tries to detect devices on 128 PCI buses.. Needless to say, I don't > have that many :-) Only 1 in fact. Is this normal?? I've attached > a desg output below.. Everything works peachy, but the boot-up is > surprising when the 128 PCI probes go *flying* by! :-) > > Also, for the new sound code, do you just need a line like this in > the kernel config: > > device pcm0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 flags 0x0 vector pcmintr > > I have an old SB-16 "classic" - i.e. not plug and play.. > The boot messages tell me: > > mss_probe: no address supplied, try default 0x530 > sb_probe: no address supplied, try defaults (0x220,0x240) > pcm0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa > > I'm assuming this means I need more goodies in my config file. I wasn't > sure what parts belongs to the "snd0" drivers, and what belonged with > the "pcm0" driver.. I didn't put in the plug-n-play stuff either, which > I'm assuming I don't need since my sound card isn't plug-n-pray.. Well, you have your audiodevice as audio0 now. Try to cat an audiofile to /dev/audio0 and you will probably hear something :-) The sb_probe line just tells you that it will try to probe at adress 0x220 and 0x240. And it seems to succeed just fine :-) You can change your config line to: device pcm0 at isa? port 0x220 tty irq 7 drq 1 flags 0x0 vector pcmintr Johan -- * mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ * * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ * From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 16:23:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27027 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27015 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:23:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA05524; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:22:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19971205162226.26376@micron.mini.net> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:22:26 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: sos@FreeBSD.dk Cc: j_mini@efn.org, FreeBSD current Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks Reply-To: Jonathan Mini References: <19971205025235.38183@micron.mini.net> <199712051159.MAA08216@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199712051159=2EMAA08216=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Fri=2C_Dec_05=2C_1997_at_12=3A59=3A1?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?0PM_+0100?= X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't feel like creating a long thread where we both keep saying 'you're wrong, no you're wrong, no .. you're wrong' over and over again. My point is that creating a cpu vendor target as well as a cpu class target will make a general enough method of determing the the types or processor hacks to include, whithout requiring the user to keep track of all of those processor specific hacks, and to know which ones affect what processors. You are saying that this is rediculous, and that tracking bugs on a bug-by-bug basis is Good Enough. The question is whether or not a user should be required to keep track of all of the bugs that have popped up for their specific processor and enable those fixes. (or disable the ones that don't affect them) I say that this isn't very reasonable, and that the user should only be required to keep track of his processor's make and model rather than all of the specific mistakes that his vendor made. That is the debate in short. Considering that you and have are still certain that we are right and the other guy is wrong, we probably go on about this for dozens of messages. I'm hoping we won't. However, I am also hoping that you will look to the future on this issue, to the point where there are dozens of these vendor-specific bug fixes, and probably a dozen or so cpu classes. Everyone knows their processor's vendor and class, even the stupider users. Also, even though (replortedly) the current Pentium F00F bugfix doesn't have a large perofrmance hit on the system, who's to say that others won't? Do we want to go through the same debate we went over with the F00F bug about the next bug that comes along? I would hope not, and with a processor class and vendor classification method, the same issue wouldn't be an issue anymore, because the code would be able to conditionally compile out on everything but the specific type of processor which it affects. Søren Schmidt stands accused of saying: > In reply to Jonathan Mini who wrote: > > Søren Schmidt stands accused of saying: > > > > > I know this leads to a certain amount of bloat for some processors, but > > > thats "just too bad".. > > > > This is my point : why should they bloat the other family's unnecissarily? > > In most situations, the options will be left in the kernel, so the code will be > > the same as it is now, but for those of us users who are intelligent enough ot > > know that what kind of processor we have, it would be better to not punish us. > > You surely is intelligent enough to compile with option NO_FOOF_HACK then ?? > Or whatever it is you dont want... > > > Your point of all processors being equal because they all cause bloat is not > > the issue here. I am not aruging that Intel is special, I am arguing that > > Intel code is bloating a Cyrix or an Amd system. If Amd code were bloating an > > Intel system, I would be just as annoyed. > > No I'm argueing that you allready have the option of not including the > hacks, its just a matter of HOW its done, and I think the current method > covers it pretty well... > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end > .. -- Jonathan Mini Ingenious Productions Software Development P.O. Box 5693, Eugene, Or. 97405 "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 18:20:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06064 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:20:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06054; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:20:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA14563; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:17:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd014559; Fri Dec 5 18:17:06 1997 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:14:41 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: dyson@freeBSD.org cc: current@freeBSD.org Subject: DEVFS: John, can you suggest.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk My new DEVFS/SLICE code seems to work fine.. except: occasionally I get a call from the system to transfer an amount of data that is not a multiple of 512 bytes. actually 4736 bytes to be exact. ( (9 * 512) + 128 ) can you imagine how this is occuring? do I have to respond to some special ioctl to keep the system happy? The stack trace is: (by hand) spec_strategy spec_vnoperate spec_getpages spec_vnoperate ffs_getpages vnode_pager_getpage vm_pager_get_pages vm_fault trap------ slow_copyin ffs_write vn_write write syscall Using my new slice code, I cannot complete a make world, because 'install' seems to sometimes fall over doing this. Everything else seems to be working just fine. I can do a make buildworld if I can get past the installs during the building of the obj binaries for the build. any thoughts? this is with a 2 day old kernel source tree. same tree compiles a NON DEVFS/slice kernel that works just fine, so it's something I'm not doing. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 18:46:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08216 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:46:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp8.portal.net.au [202.12.71.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08207 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:46:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01232; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:09:52 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199712060239.NAA01232@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Eivind Eklund cc: Ari Suutari , John Kelly , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "05 Dec 1997 02:20:24 BST." <86k9dkegbr.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 13:09:51 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Using htonl() on a port number at least seems to be wrong - port > numbers are 16 bits. Signed/unsigned trouble too, perhaps? Heh. Port numbers are 16 bits, but they are passed around in ints. If you follow the code through the kernel, you will see htonl() being used on a regular basis. There was a thread "Memory leak in getservbyXXX" on -hackers a while back in which this was discussed. I still haven't attacked the manpages to deal with the outcome of this discussion, as the magnitude of the obvious task was daunting in the extreme. mike From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 18:57:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09094 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09081 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:57:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA23144; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:56:53 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712060256.VAA23144@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Mark Mayo cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: 128 PCI buses... References: <19971205180959.01737@vmunix.com> In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 18:09:59 EST." <19971205180959.01737@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:56:53 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Funny, on my PPro box at work, during probe, I find 128 vga devices on different PCI busses. It really zooms by.. I'll see if I can catch it one day. louie From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 19:04:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA09540 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:04:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09535; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:04:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA16952; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:04:21 -0800 (PST) To: Philippe Regnauld cc: Terry Lambert , ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:38:16 +0100." <19971205233816.15333@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:04:20 -0800 Message-ID: <16948.881377460@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I like this. I think that there should be coordination with the > > OpenBSD and NetBSD folks to make sure they are usable "out of the box" > > for them as well. It could become simply "The BSD ports collection". > > YES! I definitely agree with this idea -- since OpenBSD already > uses the ports... Having a common set of CD's / archives that This would be nice, but I'd also have to *test* these packages on those platforms or at least cooperate closely with someone from each camp to do so, and frankly that's a lot more extra work than I feel comfortable signing up for. Again, it "would be nice", I'm not disputing that, I'm simply saying that if we don't keep our goalset small, at least for the first couple of iterations of this, then we won't get it done for any of the *BSDs (including FreeBSD). Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 19:33:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11465 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from imo11.mail.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11451 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:33:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from A4steps@aol.com) From: A4steps Message-ID: <587c79d4.34887170@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:14:33 EST To: A4steps@aol.com Subject: $$$$$$$ This Can Pay for the Holidays! $$$$$$$$ Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk << Just what you needed, just when you needed it!>> The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. Initially I let no one in the organization know that I was an attorney and, to my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, whit money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Willy D, Cajas "Please Read This Twice!" Dear friend, This is a "ONE-TIME MESSAGE" you were randomly selected to recive this . There is no need to reply to remove, you will receive no further mailing from us. If you interest in this GREAT INFORMATION, please do not click reply, use the contact information in this message. THANK YOU! :-) "Print this for future reference" This following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income returned is TREMENDOUS!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ You are about to make at least $50.000 in less than 90 days! Please read the inclosed program...... THEN READ IT AGAING!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The following is a copy of the e-mail I read: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!! You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income. This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for! Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! Thousands of people have used this program to: - Raise capital to start their own business - Pay off debts - Buy homes, cars, etc., - Even retire! This is your chance, so don't pass it up! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Basically, this is what we do: We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer). The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include: * $5.00 cash * The name and number of the report they are ordering * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S ******* This is what you MUST do: 1. 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There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business taxes. *******T E S T I M O N I A L S******* This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. Frank T., Bel-Air, MD I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq. Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!! D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending! Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!! From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 20:11:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13920 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:11:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13910 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:10:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id XAA29123; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:12:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971205231228.08693@vmunix.com> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:12:28 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Johan Larsson Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 128 PCI buses... References: <19971205180959.01737@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: ; from Johan Larsson on Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 01:18:03AM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 01:18:03AM +0100, Johan Larsson wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Mark Mayo wrote: > > > Hey, I've just installed -current for the first time in ages on > > my PPro system. Everything works fine, except the boot > > tries to detect devices on 128 PCI buses.. Needless to say, I don't > > have that many :-) Only 1 in fact. Is this normal?? I've attached > > a desg output below.. Everything works peachy, but the boot-up is > > surprising when the 128 PCI probes go *flying* by! :-) > > > > Also, for the new sound code, do you just need a line like this in > > the kernel config: > > > > device pcm0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 flags 0x0 vector pcmintr > > > > I have an old SB-16 "classic" - i.e. not plug and play.. > > The boot messages tell me: > > > > mss_probe: no address supplied, try default 0x530 > > sb_probe: no address supplied, try defaults (0x220,0x240) > > pcm0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa > > > Well, you have your audiodevice as audio0 now. Try to cat an audiofile to > /dev/audio0 and you will probably hear something :-) > > The sb_probe line just tells you that it will try to probe at adress > 0x220 and 0x240. And it seems to succeed just fine :-) Oh, I get it! :-) Unfortunately, it wouldn't work - I'd get sound, but not exactly what you'd call pleasant sound! Lot's a screaching, static, hissing.. great techno garble, but quite unpleasant otherwise :-) > > You can change your config line to: > > device pcm0 at isa? port 0x220 tty irq 7 drq 1 flags 0x0 vector pcmintr I tried that. Is that the only line you're supposed to have for sound? I went back to the old snd0,sb0,sbxvi0,sbmidi0,opl0 combo and that works fine. I even got sound in xquake - although it crashed and somehow nuked my Shared memory.. (shmget from anything now fails..). Thanks for the explanation, -Mark > Johan > -- > * mailto:gozer@ludd.luth.se * http://www.ludd.luth.se/users/gozer/ * > * Powered by FreeBSD. http://www.se.freebsd.org/ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ * -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 20:25:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15272 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15265 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:25:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sef@FreeBSD.org) From: Sean Eric Fagan Received: (from sef@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) id UAA00113 for current; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:24:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:24:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712060424.UAA00113@freefall.freebsd.org> To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: truss-related changes just checked in Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The kernel code and procctl; I am adding comments and cleaning up the code for my version of truss right now, and that will probably be checked in later this weekend. As I said earlier, remember that this changed the size of the proc structure, requiring that any LKMs you load be recompiled. Sean. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 20:38:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16028 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:38:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16023 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:38:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@glue.umd.edu) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06945; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:36:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: picnic.mat.net: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:36:43 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@picnic.mat.net To: Jim Bryant cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712052119.PAA00957@unix.tfs.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Jim Bryant wrote: > In reply: > > > The second thing I think we need to consider is that in the longer > > > term, I can easily see a day where the ports and packages collection > > > have grown to the point where decoupling them from the primary FreeBSD > > > releases becomes essential in order that the "base system" remain > > > reasonably priced. This would also allow the ports collection to move > > > at its own release schedule, perhaps doing only 2 - 3 releases a year > > > and published in a format closer to Rich Morin's well known Prime Time > > > Freeware for UNIX CDs (http://www.ptf.com/ptf/products/UNIX). They > > > come with a nifty printed book containing alphabetized short > > > descriptions so you can look something up quickly before wasting your > > > time mounting the wrong CD, and I think the ports & packages > > > collection should do exactly the same thing. > > > > > > I like this. I think that there should be coordination with the > > OpenBSD and NetBSD folks to make sure they are usable "out of the box" > > for them as well. It could become simply "The BSD ports collection". > > > > You may want to coordinate with BSDI, if at all possible... > > > > This should probably wait for ELF, though, since all the other BSD's > > are ELF now... > > hmmmm... skip BSDI. they want to charge absurd amounts, so make them > pay for their own ports.. Isn't that kind of narrow-minded? Exactly the kind most people accuse many commercial companies of. FreeBSD is free, to all comers. Do you remember where doscmd came from? > > jim > -- > All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, > think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or > radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw > voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ > > ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 21:23:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18891 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:23:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from luke.cpl.net (luke.cpl.net [207.67.172.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18885 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:23:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shawn@cpl.net) Received: from cpl.net (shawn.cpl.net [207.67.172.196]) by luke.cpl.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA27549; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:26:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:22:26 -0800 From: Shawn Ramsey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey CC: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > hmmmm... skip BSDI. they want to charge absurd amounts, so make them > > pay for their own ports.. > > Isn't that kind of narrow-minded? Exactly the kind most people accuse > many commercial companies of. FreeBSD is free, to all comers. Do you > remember where doscmd came from? Why should the FreeBSD people make the port collection work with other OS's? If thats not what some people were suggesting, forget this post. :) I see no problem with making them available for other OS's to use, but that is already the case isnt it? I would tend to agree with the statement about BSDI, whether doscmd came from them or anywhere else...Its a great OS, but not so great company behind it. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 21:29:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19261 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:29:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18871; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id QAA31383; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:09 +1100 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:09 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199712060511.QAA31383@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: DEVFS: John, can you suggest.. Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >My new DEVFS/SLICE code seems to work fine.. >except: >occasionally I get a call from the system to transfer an >amount of data that is not a multiple of 512 bytes. > >actually 4736 bytes to be exact. >( (9 * 512) + 128 ) >... >The stack trace is: >(by hand) > > >spec_strategy >spec_vnoperate >spec_getpages >spec_vnoperate spec_getpages() always rounds up to a multiple of a block size. However, in the mounted case, this block size is vp->v_mount->mnt_stat.f_bsize. Apparently f_bsize is not a multiple of 512. There are lots of related bogons. E.g., the cluster_write() call in spec_strategy() flounders around using the f_bsize and other unrelated values for the filesystem that the device node happens to be in. Perhaps your problem is actually here. There is no problem for ffs because spec_bmap() returns a run length of 0, so cluster_write() reduces to a slow way of calling bawrite() or bdwrite() (depending bogusly on whether the filesystem is mounted -async). Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 22:40:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24272 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA24257; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xeDuV-0001LO-00; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:40:19 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA14244; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:39:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712060639.XAA14244@harmony.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Cc: Philippe Regnauld , Terry Lambert , ports@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 19:04:20 PST." <16948.881377460@time.cdrom.com> References: <16948.881377460@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:39:14 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <16948.881377460@time.cdrom.com> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: : Again, it "would be nice", I'm not disputing that, I'm simply saying : that if we don't keep our goalset small, at least for the first couple : of iterations of this, then we won't get it done for any of the *BSDs : (including FreeBSD). And the number of niggling, little problems that are in the ports when you try to use them quickly convince you that having one ports tree is a logistical nightmare. the openbsd folks sent me a bunch of patches back when 2.2.5 was jelling, so i couldn't commit them to the freebsd tree. to make matters worse, freebsd has libcrypt, while openbsd doesn't. and then there was libgmp. freebsd compresses man pages, while openbsd does. the list is very long and adds up to make most ports not work w/o tweaking on openbsd. in the end, to get working ports they had to get their own ports tree. lots of little things added up to a huge problem. i guess this is a long way of saying that i agree with jordan. expanding the scope of ports from just current/stable freebsd does come at a huge price that isn't obvious at first blush. the devil is in the details for sure. it is much harder than you'd otherwise think. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 22:42:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24450 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:42:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA24443 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 22:42:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xeDwr-0001LQ-00; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:42:45 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA14258; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:41:40 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199712060641.XAA14258@harmony.village.org> To: Shawn Ramsey Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? Cc: Chuck Robey , freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:22:26 PST." <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> References: <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 23:41:40 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> Shawn Ramsey writes: : Why should the FreeBSD people make the port collection work with other : OS's? If thats not what some people were suggesting, forget this post. there are lots of reasons for wanting it. the ports are more common than they are different. only a limited number of volunteers, etc. however, as a practical matter, the number of differences between the systems is large enough to cause enough problems that separate trees really are a good thing at this time. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 23:05:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26121 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:05:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26112 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id CAA00349; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:05:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712060705.CAA00349@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> from Shawn Ramsey at "Dec 5, 97 09:22:26 pm" To: shawn@cpl.net (Shawn Ramsey) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:05:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Shawn Ramsey said: > > > hmmmm... skip BSDI. they want to charge absurd amounts, so make them > > > pay for their own ports.. > > > > Isn't that kind of narrow-minded? Exactly the kind most people accuse > > many commercial companies of. FreeBSD is free, to all comers. Do you > > remember where doscmd came from? > > Why should the FreeBSD people make the port collection work with other > OS's? If thats not what some people were suggesting, forget this post. > :) I see no problem with making them available for other OS's to use, > but that is already the case isnt it? > I don't think that we should spend our limited resources on making sure that ports work on other OSes. Of course, if the people who are actually doing the port work want to do so, that is fine. I just think that we all should stay focused on what we need to do for OUR OS. If or whenever we get exceptional cooperation from other OS vendors in return, then I can imagine that we should consider helping them. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 5 23:46:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28028 for current-outgoing; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from asterope.egr.msu.edu (root@asterope.egr.msu.edu [35.9.37.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28019 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:46:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mcdougall@ameritech.net) Received: from ameritech.net (mcdouga9@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by asterope.egr.msu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA05691 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:49:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mcdougall@ameritech.net) Message-ID: <34890373.5D248C1C@ameritech.net> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 02:49:07 -0500 From: Adam McDougall X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: de0 problem compiling kernel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I cvsupped late friday/early saturday to current, amd during make from making the kernel it stops up at de0. Yes I recompiled config 1st. ../../pci/if_de.c: In function `tulip_addr_filter': ../../pci/if_de.c:3033: storage size of `step' isn't known ../../pci/if_de.c:3091: warning: implicit declaration of function `ETHER_FIRST_MULTI' ../../pci/if_de.c:3093: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c:3093: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c:3094: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c:3101: warning: implicit declaration of function `ETHER_NEXT_MULTI' ../../pci/if_de.c:3142: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c:3142: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c:3143: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c:3144: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c:3145: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ../../pci/if_de.c: In function `tulip_ifioctl': ../../pci/if_de.c:4470: warning: implicit declaration of function `ether_addmulti' ../../pci/if_de.c:4472: warning: implicit declaration of function `ether_delmulti' ../../pci/if_de.c: In function `tulip_pci_attach': ../../pci/if_de.c:5234: request for member `cfg1' in something not a structure or union ../../pci/if_de.c:5234: request for member `cfg1' in something not a structure or union *** Error code 1 Stop. # From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 00:10:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA29345 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA29289 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:10:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA25288; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:07:43 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712060707.IAA25288@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: 128 PCI buses... To: mark@vmunix.com (Mark Mayo) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:07:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: gozer@ludd.luth.se, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971205231228.08693@vmunix.com> from "Mark Mayo" at Dec 5, 97 11:12:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Also, for the new sound code, do you just need a line like this in > > > the kernel config: next time put some indication to audio in the subject line -- it is just by chance that I came across this message. > > > device pcm0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 flags 0x0 vector pcmintr > > > > > > I have an old SB-16 "classic" - i.e. not plug and play.. the SB16 needs two DMA channel, should change the above line with "flags 0x15" to specify channel 5 as the 16-bit DMA channel. > Unfortunately, it wouldn't work - I'd get sound, but not exactly > what you'd call pleasant sound! Lot's a screaching, static, hissing.. > great techno garble, but quite unpleasant otherwise :-) If it is really an SB16 the secondary DMA channel should fix things. Other than that, if you are happy with the guspnp driver there is no reason you should change :) Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 00:44:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01298 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:44:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ache.relcom.ru (ache.relcom.ru [193.125.20.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01286 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:44:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@ache.relcom.ru) Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.relcom.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00313; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:43:59 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:43:56 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@ache.relcom.ru To: Luigi Rizzo cc: dstenn@fanfic.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support In-Reply-To: <199712051144.MAA23073@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Dennis Tenn wrote: > > > > > awe0 at 0x620 on isa > > > AWE32 not found > > > AWE32: not detected > > > > > > > I have the same problems with SB32 PnP (with AWE32), it seems > > that AWE lacks of some initialization 'cause it work under Win95. > > I don't remember well but i think you have to do something like > > pnp 1 X os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20 Yes, it helps! Could we do it by default somehow? BTW, playmidi sounds on AWE32 is really strange comparing to Win95 case... It seems that all notes are right, but really weird... Is AWE32 require some patch loading? I think it was able to play using default bank... -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 00:52:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01688 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:52:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01678; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:52:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id AAA02847; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:50:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id XAA20919; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:52:38 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199712060752.XAA20919@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <16948.881377460@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Dec 5, 97 07:04:20 pm" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:52:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, tlambert@primenet.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Jordan K. Hubbard: > > > I like this. I think that there should be coordination with the > > > OpenBSD and NetBSD folks to make sure they are usable "out of the box" > > > for them as well. It could become simply "The BSD ports collection". > > > > YES! I definitely agree with this idea -- since OpenBSD already > > uses the ports... Having a common set of CD's / archives that > > This would be nice, but I'd also have to *test* these packages on > those platforms or at least cooperate closely with someone from each > camp to do so, and frankly that's a lot more extra work than I feel > comfortable signing up for. > > Again, it "would be nice", I'm not disputing that, I'm simply saying > that if we don't keep our goalset small, at least for the first couple > of iterations of this, then we won't get it done for any of the *BSDs > (including FreeBSD). > > Hm. Closely linking the 3 BSD's would be such a major win that we need to put in the effort, I think. If the proposed ``port-server'' is realized, why not put Net|Open disks on the platform and co-ordinate the ports effort. The NetBSD and OpenBSD teams could share and repicrocate. Have you talked to the Net|Open folks, Jordan? At the very least, we ought to keep this idea in focus; it's solid. We can only gain. gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 00:52:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01752 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:52:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01733; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:52:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id AAA02920; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id AAA20945; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:10:14 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199712060810.AAA20945@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712060639.XAA14244@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Dec 5, 97 11:39:14 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 00:10:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, tlambert@primenet.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Warner Losh: > In message <16948.881377460@time.cdrom.com> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: > : Again, it "would be nice", I'm not disputing that, I'm simply saying > : that if we don't keep our goalset small, at least for the first couple > : of iterations of this, then we won't get it done for any of the *BSDs > : (including FreeBSD). > > And the number of niggling, little problems that are in the ports when > you try to use them quickly convince you that having one ports tree is > a logistical nightmare. the openbsd folks sent me a bunch of patches > back when 2.2.5 was jelling, so i couldn't commit them to the freebsd > tree. to make matters worse, freebsd has libcrypt, while openbsd > doesn't. and then there was libgmp. freebsd compresses man pages, > while openbsd does. the list is very long and adds up to make most > ports not work w/o tweaking on openbsd. in the end, to get working > ports they had to get their own ports tree. lots of little things > added up to a huge problem. > > i guess this is a long way of saying that i agree with jordan. > expanding the scope of ports from just current/stable freebsd does > come at a huge price that isn't obvious at first blush. the devil is > in the details for sure. it is much harder than you'd otherwise > think. > > Warner > If there are fewer than 10 gotchas, a merger still makes sense to me. If OpenBSD is too different from FreeBSD, NetBSD shouldn't be. Looking at this from the perspective of 20 years of porting code, it is certainly possible. Whether it's reasonable or not is altogether another matter... . gary > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 01:16:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA02996 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:16:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02991 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:16:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id UAA05044; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:10:51 +1100 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:10:51 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199712060910.UAA05044@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, mcdougall@ameritech.net Subject: Re: de0 problem compiling kernel Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I cvsupped late friday/early saturday to current, amd during make from >making the kernel it stops up at de0. Yes I recompiled config 1st. > >../../pci/if_de.c: In function `tulip_addr_filter': >../../pci/if_de.c:3033: storage size of `step' isn't known >../../pci/if_de.c:3091: warning: implicit declaration of function >`ETHER_FIRST_MULTI' These lines are not compiled in -current. Apparently your compiler doesn't define __FreeBSD__ as 3. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 01:20:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA03231 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:20:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA03214 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA25386; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:17:38 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712060817.JAA25386@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support To: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:17:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: dstenn@fanfic.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=" at Dec 6, 97 11:43:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't remember well but i think you have to do something like > > > > pnp 1 X os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20 > > Yes, it helps! Could we do it by default somehow? if you have updated /sbin/dset, the info is stored permanently in your kernel. > BTW, playmidi sounds on AWE32 is really strange comparing to Win95 case... > It seems that all notes are right, but really weird... Is AWE32 require > some patch loading? I think it was able to play using default bank... no idea here... you have to ask some music expert, which is not me... luigi From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 01:46:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA04413 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA04406 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:46:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04299; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:46:52 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199712060946.KAA04299@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks In-Reply-To: <19971205162226.26376@micron.mini.net> from Jonathan Mini at "Dec 5, 97 04:22:26 pm" To: j_mini@efn.org Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:46:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.dk, j_mini@efn.org, current@freebsd.org From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL30 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Jonathan Mini who wrote: > I don't feel like creating a long thread where we both keep saying 'you're > wrong, no you're wrong, no .. you're wrong' over and over again. hear hear! > The question is whether or not a user should be required to keep track of all > of the bugs that have popped up for their specific processor and enable those > fixes. (or disable the ones that don't affect them) > I say that this isn't very reasonable, and that the user should only be > required to keep track of his processor's make and model rather than all of the > specific mistakes that his vendor made. That's exactly the point, and my standpoint is still that all hacks for a given CPU type (I?86_CPU) should be compiled in if one does nothing to prevent it. This covers the vast majority of the users. Then for the hacker types (like you & me :) ), we can disable those CPU types, and the hacks we dont like. This is exaclty what the current model buys us. I dont like another bazillion #ifdefs and stuff just to make a few hackers happy, they are knowledgeable enough (or should be) to do this by themselves. I'm sorry, but that is still my viewpoint, I see your arguments, but for the next couple of releases (years) what we have will do nicely... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 01:55:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA04901 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA04887 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:55:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65/AndrewR-930902) id AA10567; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:25:14 +1030 Received: by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA25466; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:25:34 +1030 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:25:32 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: wd0 interrupt timeout Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For the past several days (the first time being on Dec 2 as shown) I've been seeing the following messages popping up: Dec 2 12:09:11 morden /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: Dec 2 12:09:11 morden /kernel: wd0: status 50 error 0 Dec 2 12:09:11 morden /kernel: wd0: wdtimeout() DMA status 4 Dec 2 16:03:53 morden /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: Dec 2 16:03:53 morden /kernel: wd0: status 50 error 1 Dec 2 16:03:53 morden /kernel: wd0: wdtimeout() DMA status 4 Dec 5 22:10:49 morden /kernel.old: wd0: interrupt timeout: Dec 5 22:10:49 morden /kernel.old: wd0: status 58 error 0 Dec 5 22:10:49 morden /kernel.old: wd0: wdtimeout() DMA status 4 Dec 6 05:30:35 morden /kernel.old: wd0: interrupt timeout: Dec 6 05:30:36 morden /kernel.old: wd0: status 50 error 1 Dec 6 05:30:36 morden /kernel.old: wd0: wdtimeout() DMA status 4 Dec 6 12:21:18 morden /kernel.old: wd0: interrupt timeout: Dec 6 12:21:19 morden /kernel.old: wd0: status 50 error 1 Dec 6 12:21:19 morden /kernel.old: wd0: wdtimeout() DMA status 4 Dec 6 18:08:08 morden /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: Dec 6 18:08:08 morden /kernel: wd0: status 58 error 0 Dec 6 18:08:09 morden /kernel: wd0: wdtimeout() DMA status 4 The system will completely hang for several seconds - no process activity, no disk activity, nothing - then the drive in question makes the "powering up" sound it does when I first power up the machine, the error appears on the console and activity resumes. Can anyone shed some light on what's happening here, specifically, whether it's a hardware problem with the drive, or a driver problem with FreeBSD? Here is the output of dmesg: ----- Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Dec 6 17:28:28 CST 1997 kkenn@morden.adelaide.edu.au:/usr2/src/sys/compile/MORDEN CPU: Pentium (132.73-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x525 Stepping=5 Features=0x1bf real memory = 50331648 (49152K bytes) avail memory = 46018560 (44940K bytes) DEVFS: ready for devices Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0: rev 0x02 on pci0.0.0 chip1: rev 0x02 on pci0.7.0 ide_pci0: rev 0x02 on pci0.7.1 vga0: rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci 0.18.0 Probing for PnP devices: CSN 1 Vendor ID: CTL0028 [0x28008c0e] Serial 0x100c0a17 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 flags 0x80ff80ff on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd0: 1549MB (3173184 sectors), 3148 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): , 32-bit, multi-block-16 wd1: 2441MB (4999680 sectors), 4960 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface sb0 at 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 on isa snd0: sbxvi0 at ? drq 5 on isa snd0: sbmidi0 at 0x330 on isa snd0: Intel Pentium F00F detected, installing workaround DEVFS: ready to run ----- Thanks, Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rincewind looked at the boots, with suspicious recollection of the trouble there had been with the University's prototype Seven League boots. Footwear which tried to make you take steps twenty-one miles long imposed unfortunate groinal strains; they'd got the things off the student just in time, but he'd still had to wear a special device for several months, and he still ate standing up. -- Terry Pratchett, "Interesting Times" From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 01:59:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA05073 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:59:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA05067; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 01:59:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17650; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:55:13 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Gary Kline cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh), jkh@time.cdrom.com, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, tlambert@primenet.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 00:10:14 PST." <199712060810.AAA20945@tao.thought.org> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 10:55:13 +0100 Message-ID: <17648.881402113@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199712060810.AAA20945@tao.thought.org>, Gary Kline writes: >According to Warner Losh: > > If there are fewer than 10 gotchas, a merger still makes > sense to me. If OpenBSD is too different from FreeBSD, > NetBSD shouldn't be. There are about 125 gotchas as of my last count. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 02:14:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA05813 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:14:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smoke.marlboro.vt.us (smoke.marlboro.vt.us [198.206.215.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA05806 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:14:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cgull@smoke.marlboro.vt.us) Received: (from cgull@localhost) by smoke.marlboro.vt.us (8.8.7/8.8.7/cgull) id FAA11203; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:14:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:14:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712061014.FAA11203@smoke.marlboro.vt.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: cgull+usenet-881371548@smoke.marlboro.vt.us (john hood) To: Jonathan Mini Cc: sos@freebsd.dk, FreeBSD current Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks In-Reply-To: <19971205162226.26376@micron.mini.net> References: <19971205025235.38183@micron.mini.net> <199712051159.MAA08216@sos.freebsd.dk> <19971205162226.26376@micron.mini.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jonathan Mini writes: [a horribly formatted message-- please don't use such long lines] > My point is that creating a cpu vendor target as well as a cpu > class target will make a general enough method of determing the the > types or processor hacks to include, whithout requiring the user to > keep track of all of those processor specific hacks, and to know > which ones affect what processors. > You are saying that this is rediculous, and that tracking bugs on > a bug-by-bug basis is Good Enough. If the bug fixes are all included, nobody needs to track them. Earlier, I wrote a long response, and tossed it, but you provoked me again... :) In short, I think things would be better served by trimming down the number of options and #ifdefs. The memory saving is small, the performance impact near nil, and the user and programmer confusion factor significant. I'm not even sure that "I[3456]86_CPU" is desirable. > The question is whether or not a user should be required to keep > track of all of the bugs that have popped up for their specific > processor and enable those fixes. (or disable the ones that don't > affect them) I say that this isn't very reasonable, and that the > user should only be required to keep track of his processor's make > and model rather than all of the specific mistakes that his vendor > made. > That is the debate in short. Considering that you and have are > still certain that we are right and the other guy is wrong, we > probably go on about this for dozens of messages. I'm hoping we > won't. However, I am also hoping that you will look to the future > on this issue, to the point where there are dozens of these > vendor-specific bug fixes, and probably a dozen or so cpu classes. > Everyone knows their processor's vendor and class, even the > stupider users. > Also, even though (replortedly) the current Pentium F00F bugfix > doesn't have a large perofrmance hit on the system, who's to say > that others won't? 1) If there's a large performance hit on a "bug fix", it's arguably the hardware vendor's problem, not ours. 2) It seems to me that this is a problem best handled when it arises-- who knows what the next bug is going to be, how it will affect things? We sure can't predict our *own* bugs, let alone what the hardware folks bake up (literally) for us. :) > Do we want to go through the same debate we went > over with the F00F bug about the next bug that comes along? I I assume I missed something here-- I didn't see any debate :) --jh -- Mr. Belliveau said, "the difference was the wise, John Hood, cgull intelligent look on the face of the cow." He was @ *so* right. --Ofer Inbar smoke.marlboro.vt.us From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 02:42:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07250 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:42:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from firewall.ftf.dk (root@mail.ftf.dk [129.142.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07240 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:41:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk) Received: from mail.prosa.dk ([192.168.100.2]) by firewall.ftf.dk (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA18177; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:18:53 +0100 Received: from deepo.prosa.dk (deepo.prosa.dk [192.168.100.10]) by mail.prosa.dk (8.8.5/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) with ESMTP id MAA12290; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:05:40 +0100 (CET) Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by deepo.prosa.dk (8.8.7/8.8.5/prosa-1.1) id LAA09196; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:40:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19971206114018.41854@deepo.prosa.dk> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:40:18 +0100 From: Philippe Regnauld To: Kris Kennaway Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wd0 interrupt timeout References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 08:25:32PM +1030 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kris Kennaway writes: > > For the past several days (the first time being on Dec 2 as shown) I've been > seeing the following messages popping up: [...] > The system will completely hang for several seconds - no process > activity, no disk activity, nothing - then the drive in question makes > the "powering up" sound it does when I first power up the machine, the > error appears on the console and activity resumes. You have auto-spindown / APM enable in the BIOS, and your disk spins down when it's been idle for some time (definable). The timeout is a warning when the disk doesn't respond to commands right away -- you usually don't see this on laptops since 2.5" disks usually spin up faster. Shouldn't be too harmful. -- -[ Philippe Regnauld / sysadmin / regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk / +55.4N +11.3E ]- "Pluto placed his bad dog at the entrance of Hades to keep the dead IN and the living OUT! The archetypical corporate firewall?" - S. Kelly Bootle, about Cerberus ["MYTHOLOGY", in Marutukku distrib] - From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 02:52:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07588 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:52:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from lsd.relcom.eu.net (lsd.relcom.eu.net [193.124.23.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07582 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:52:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net) Received: (from ache@localhost) by lsd.relcom.eu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06468; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:52:39 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from ache) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:52:38 +0300 (MSK) From: =?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= X-Sender: ache@lsd.relcom.eu.net To: Luigi Rizzo cc: dstenn@fanfic.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SB AWE64 support In-Reply-To: <199712060817.JAA25386@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > I don't remember well but i think you have to do something like > > > > > > pnp 1 X os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20 > > > > Yes, it helps! Could we do it by default somehow? > > if you have updated /sbin/dset, the info is stored permanently in your > kernel. I know, I mean not me but mass user. SB32 is too common card to worth to do some tricks (like this) durectly in the driver without any special attention from the user. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://www.nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 02:53:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07611 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (root@dingo.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07604 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:53:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au [203.101.242.9]) by dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21791 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:52:42 +1000 (GMT+1000) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (localhost.craftncomp.com [127.0.0.1]) by zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00582 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:01:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Message-Id: <199712061101.VAA00582@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Oddity with netscape and current Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 21:01:08 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Quite a lot I find that after launching netscape, itwill go into a tight loop, consuming all the CPU on a ration of about 30% user & 70% system. This has just happened, at src-cur.3160. Has anyone else seen it? This is netscape 4.04 communicator. Stephen From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 03:30:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA09178 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:30:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA09130 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:29:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kkennawa@physics.adelaide.edu.au) Received: from bragg by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65/AndrewR-930902) id AA13039; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:59:49 +1030 Received: by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA25847; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:00:08 +1030 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:00:07 +1030 (CST) From: Kris Kennaway X-Sender: kkennawa@bragg To: Philippe Regnauld Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wd0 interrupt timeout In-Reply-To: <19971206114018.41854@deepo.prosa.dk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The system will completely hang for several seconds - no process > > activity, no disk activity, nothing - then the drive in question makes > > the "powering up" sound it does when I first power up the machine, the > > error appears on the console and activity resumes. > You have auto-spindown / APM enable in the BIOS, and your > disk spins down when it's been idle for some time (definable). This probably seems pretty obvious, and if the above is true then it would have been; the 'problems' started at about the time I enabled this to see what effect it had. However, I had thought I'd disabled it this morning - I'll have to check next time I reboot to make sure (since I've had another recurrence since rebooting). Thanks for your help. Kris From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 03:35:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11429 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:35:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from main.brewich.com (digital-02-166.hou.neoworld.net [206.109.29.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11411 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:34:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gclarkii@main.brewich.com) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.brewich.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id FAA01982 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:35:03 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199712061135.FAA01982@main.brewich.com> Subject: FoxPro under Current To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:35:02 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I've now got FoxPro 2.6 for Unix running under FreeBSD 3.0-current. It works perfectly with just a little tweaking. The biggest problems are the various files in odd places that one has to have installed under /compat/ibcs2. Could someone who knows SCO 3.2.4 comment on what these do? /usr/lib/events /usr/lib/terminfo /dev/event /etc/event(s)? This is from memory. This is also beyond the stuff needed in /dev. Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@main.brewich.COM | From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 03:39:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11571 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:39:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from baloon.mimi.com (sjx-ca12-16.ix.netcom.com [199.182.128.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11562 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by baloon.mimi.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00981; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:34:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:34:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712061134.DAA00981@baloon.mimi.com> To: toor@dyson.iquest.net CC: shawn@cpl.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199712060705.CAA00349@dyson.iquest.net> (toor@dyson.iquest.net) Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You know, these days I usually wait for this person to post... * From: "John S. Dyson" * * I don't think that we should spend our limited resources on making sure * that ports work on other OSes. Of course, if the people who are actually * doing the port work want to do so, that is fine. I just think that we * all should stay focused on what we need to do for OUR OS. If or whenever * we get exceptional cooperation from other OS vendors in return, then I can * imagine that we should consider helping them. * ...so I can just yell "me too!" and be done with it. :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 03:40:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11697 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA11564 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 03:39:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA25626; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:37:14 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199712061037.LAA25626@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: PnP code (was: Re: SB AWE64 support) To: ache@nagual.pp.ru (=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:37:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: dstenn@fanfic.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) In-Reply-To: from "=?KOI8-R?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?=" at Dec 6, 97 01:52:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > pnp 1 X os enable port0 0x620 port1 0xa20 port2 0xe20 > > > > > > Yes, it helps! Could we do it by default somehow? > > > > if you have updated /sbin/dset, the info is stored permanently in your > > kernel. > > I know, I mean not me but mass user. SB32 is too common card to worth to > do some tricks (like this) durectly in the driver without any special > attention from the user. if you want PnP in -stable, that is what I just asked to jordan, and will probably happen soon. The code is already in -current, Jordan has agreed, si I am just waiting for a committer to do the job (jmg did the original inclusion in -current so he is familiar with the code). If you want PnP support in the guspnp driver, either you do it or ask someone -- it should be relatively simple if you look at how I do in my driver. BUT: if you want the kernel to override and PnP configuration set (or not set) by the bios, which is what "os enable" does, that should never happen, at least not in the driver. We can write extensive documentation on how to use the _manual_ PnP configuration features, perhaps imrove the user interface so one does not have to use criptic numbers but more significant names, but that's about it. If any of you is aware of how other OS (e.g. Linux, BSDI) deal with PnP we can perhaps borrow some idea or even code ? Cheers Luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 04:45:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA15145 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:45:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA15135 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:45:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA07263; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:44:59 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199712060946.KAA04299@sos.freebsd.dk> References: <19971205162226.26376@micron.mini.net> from Jonathan Mini at "Dec 5, 97 04:22:26 pm" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:39:40 -0600 To: sos@FreeBSD.dk From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Vendor-specific processor hacks Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA15137 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 3:46 AM -0600 12/6/97, S¯ren Schmidt wrote: >That's exactly the point, and my standpoint is still that all hacks for a >given CPU type (I?86_CPU) should be compiled in if one does nothing to >prevent it. I agree. The default case should be "all the workarounds are included" >I dont like another bazillion #ifdefs and stuff just to make a few >hackers happy, they are knowledgeable enough (or should be) to >do this by themselves. I think a problem is in the naming of the #ifdef's. Right now, things tend to be messy where the tests for "this, that, and the other, but not something else" have made their way into the code itself. This is caused by a failure to abstract things. The fixes should each have their own label. The label should represent the problem, not the machine that has the problem. Then, in addition, we should supply a header file that defines the cpu -> fault matrix. Why shouldn't we "do it once" rather than expect everyone to reinvent the same wheel? The only complication that I see is that we tend to think in the "HAS_BUG" mode rather than the "DOESNT_NEED_WORKAROUND" mode implied in the first paragraph. My proposed attack on this would be to have a hiearchy of filters which go from the specific to the general. make -DCOMPILE_FOR_INTEL_P5_90 - - - #ifdef COMPILE_FOR_INTEL_P5_90 #define CPU_IS_INTEL TRUE #define CPU_IS_586 TRUE #define MAY_HAVE_COOTIES TRUE #endif - - - #ifndef CPU_IS_INTEL #ifndef MAY_HAVE_FOOF_BUG #define MAY_HAVE_FOOF_BUG FALSE #endif #endif - - - and finally, in the code #ifndef MAY_HAVE_COOTIES #define MAY_HAVE_COOTIES TRUE #endif ... #if MAY_HAVE_COOTIES code to work around cooties #endif Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 05:31:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA17870 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA17852 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 05:31:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id IAA03947; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:31:18 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199712061331.IAA03947@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: VM system info To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:31:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: dg@root.com From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Notes on VM tunables: I have recently added some interesting VM tunables. Since it would be nice if people other than me (or those who requested them) could use the features, I thought it would be nice to pass this info on: (My machine has 112MB, and I have modified a few of these, so if you get different results, don't worry :-)). vm.v_free_min: 287 A process waiting on memory will be waken up if: (vm cache memory + vm free memory) > vm.v_free_min vm.v_free_target: 1011 The pageout daemon tries to arrange that the total amount of free memory reaches this value. Note that the cache memory is included in the calculation of free memory. vm.v_free_reserved: 150 Processes will wakeup the pageout daemon and wait for memory if the number of free and cached pages drops below this value. vm.v_inactive_target: 5131 The pageout daemon tries to reach this many inactive pages when it runs. Inactive pages are often (but not always) removed from the process address space, and are also the pages that are cleaned. These pages can be quickly re-inserted into the process address space when a page fault happens. vm.v_cache_min: 3259 If the cache queue size drops very far below this value, then the pageout daemon is waken up. These pages can be quickly re-faulted back to where they were, or they can be used as free pages. The notion of "free pages" is mostly an anachronism on FreeBSD, but it would be best estimated as the number of cache pages plus the number of free pages. vm.v_pageout_free_min: 34 If the amount of free+cached memory drops below this value, then the pageout daemon goes into a memory conserving mode, thereby avoiding deadlock. vm.pageout_algorithm: 0 If this is "0" the pageout daemon uses our statistics based page management scheme, it it is "1" it uses a near LRU scheme. vm.swap_enabled: 1 Enables process swapping. vm.swap_idle_threshold1: 2 This is the guaranteed memory time for a process that is targeted for swapout because of severe low memory conditions. vm.swap_idle_threshold2: 10 This is the guaranteed memory time for a process that is targeted for swapout because of being idle. vm.pageout_stats_max: 1011 Maximum number of pages to scan for a stats run. (This should be close to v_free_target.) vm.pageout_full_stats_interval: 16 Interval in seconds for a full paging stats run. vm.pageout_stats_interval: 4 Interval in seconds for a limited paging stats run. vm.pageout_stats_free_max: 25 Maximum number of pages to operate on during a stats run. vm.swap_idle_enabled: 1 Enable the swap on idle capability. This allows supporting of prejudiced swapping of idle processes. It is very useful on timesharing systems. vm.defer_swapspace_pageouts: 0 Make the swap pager very conservative about swap space usage. (This is useful on systems that don't have enough swap space, and will let the system run longer without processes being killed.) There is a significant performance hit when this option is used, when the system is under memory pressure. vm.disable_swapspace_pageouts: 0 Almost totally disable pageouts. Unless an explicit msync is done (and normally the code doesn't support msync of swapspace anyway), the system will not use swap space -- with all of the associated advantages and disadvantages. vm.max_page_launder: 96 Maximum number of pages to clean per pass of the pageout daemon. (Currently, on my system, the value chosen by the pageout daemon is a little on the small side, but is a good compromise.) If you have a slow swap device, you might want to decrease this number, if you have several interleved swap devices, you might want to increase this number. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 06:38:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA22297 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:38:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA22280 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 06:38:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27381; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:35:18 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199712061435.OAA27381@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Julian Elischer cc: Ari Suutari , Eivind Eklund , John Kelly , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:04:11 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:35:18 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > This is a mess. I am half way through making up some patches to fix it > properly. (literally I have a window at work with the half-editted sources > on it :) > > htons will correctly smash up the lower 16 bits of a long under > a little-endian OS. so using htons, while being totoally un-portable > will probably work, but htonl will > do the correct thing, and the lower 16 bits of the port will become 0. > The correct answer is to change teh port numbers where-ever they > are in natd to be unsigned short. > I am doing this.. > I'll add the changes in a few days. For the time being, I've put back the htons() :-/ As you say, this code ain't portable. Our original number goes from a,b,c,d to b,a,0,0 and then gets coerced into a u_short.... two wrongs make a right :-O -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 07:11:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24210 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:11:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from conductor.synapse.net (conductor.synapse.net [199.84.54.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA24203 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:11:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from evanc@synapse.net) Received: (qmail 10246 invoked from network); 6 Dec 1997 15:11:35 -0000 Received: from cello.synapse.net (199.84.54.81) by conductor.synapse.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 1997 15:11:35 -0000 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:11:35 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Champion Reply-To: Evan Champion To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: _POSIX_SAVED_IDS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was compiling a program (Kerberos 5) on BSD/OS a couple days ago and found that I was running in to trouble because BSDI's setreuid() doesn't work very well (it seems that once you get to root, you can't switch to another user), so just for kicks I decided to go compare the BSDI setreuid() with the one from FreeBSD. Anyway, along the way I found that kern/kern_prot.c seems to be fully loaded with #ifdefs for _POSIX_SAVED_IDS, but _POSIX_SAVED_IDS is not defined by default. Is it just because not everything is up to handling a saved-id setuid()? Evan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 08:33:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28593 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:33:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from www.giovannelli.it (www.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28580 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from giovannelli.it (modem20.masternet.it [194.184.65.233]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00699 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:33:04 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34897E0D.D9EFA42E@giovannelli.it> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:32:13 +0100 From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Reply-To: gmarco@giovannelli.it X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "FreeBSD 3.0" Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <28074.881287489@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The second thing I think we need to consider is that in the longer > term, I can easily see a day where the ports and packages collection > have grown to the point where decoupling them from the primary FreeBSD > releases becomes essential in order that the "base system" remain > reasonably priced. This would also allow the ports collection to move > at its own release schedule, perhaps doing only 2 - 3 releases a year > and published in a format closer to Rich Morin's well known Prime Time > Freeware for UNIX CDs (http://www.ptf.com/ptf/products/UNIX). They > come with a nifty printed book containing alphabetized short > descriptions so you can look something up quickly before wasting your > time mounting the wrong CD, and I think the ports & packages > collection should do exactly the same thing. > > [...] > What do folks think of all this? > Great and usefull idea !! I like it too much ! Thanks ... -- Regards... Gianmarco "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www2.masternet.it From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 08:35:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28688 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:35:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from main.brewich.com (digital-02-172.hou.neoworld.net [206.109.29.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA28676 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:35:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gclarkii@main.brewich.com) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.brewich.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA00322 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:35:12 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199712061635.KAA00322@main.brewich.com> Subject: foxpro on 3.0 vice 2.2.5...:( To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:35:07 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm now trying to get foxpro 2.6 for unix to run under current. It runs (or atleast seems to) BUT the keyboard seems to be messed up. When I hit enter (or ctl-j) I get either "9" or "=". I have to kill the app to get out:( I ideas???? Please.... Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 09:23:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01363 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:23:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from main.brewich.com (digital-02-172.hou.neoworld.net [206.109.29.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA01353 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 09:23:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gclarkii@main.brewich.com) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main.brewich.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA00649 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:23:20 -0600 (CST) From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199712061723.LAA00649@main.brewich.com> Subject: More on foxpro problems. To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:23:19 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Well it seems that the keymap changes everytime I run foxpro for what ever reason. It work perfectly on 2.2.5.... I've ran ktrace on it, and the only big difference that I see is a LOT of "resource deadlock avoided" or words to that effect. I've even tried loading a keymap from 2.2.5 with no luck. Any ideas at all??? Gary -- Gary Clark II (N5VMF) | I speak only for myself and "maybe" my company gclarkii@GBData.COM | Member of the FreeBSD Doc Team Providing Internet and ISP startups - http://WWW.GBData.com for information FreeBSD FAQ at ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.ORG/pub/FreeBSD/docs/FAQ.latin1 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 11:29:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07661 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07654 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:29:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06574; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:29:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712061929.LAA06574@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, shawn@cpl.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 03:34:48 PST." <199712061134.DAA00981@baloon.mimi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 11:29:07 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Relax, this sort of thing usually happens if the users don't pay for the effort and your team is doing a marvelous job. Amancio > You know, these days I usually wait for this person to post... > > * From: "John S. Dyson" > > * > * I don't think that we should spend our limited resources on making sure > * that ports work on other OSes. Of course, if the people who are actually > * doing the port work want to do so, that is fine. I just think that we > * all should stay focused on what we need to do for OUR OS. If or whenever > * we get exceptional cooperation from other OS vendors in return, then I can > * imagine that we should consider helping them. > * > > ...so I can just yell "me too!" and be done with it. :) > > Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 12:05:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09491 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:05:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (whizzo.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09483 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:05:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from louie@whizzo.TransSys.COM) Received: from whizzo.TransSys.COM (localhost.transsys.com [127.0.0.1]) by whizzo.TransSys.COM (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA27466; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:04:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712062004.PAA27466@whizzo.TransSys.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Shawn Ramsey cc: Chuck Robey , freebsd-current@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? References: <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Dec 1997 21:22:26 PST." <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:04:59 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > hmmmm... skip BSDI. they want to charge absurd amounts, so make them > > > pay for their own ports.. > > > > Isn't that kind of narrow-minded? Exactly the kind most people accuse > > many commercial companies of. FreeBSD is free, to all comers. Do you > > remember where doscmd came from? > > Why should the FreeBSD people make the port collection work with other > OS's? If thats not what some people were suggesting, forget this post. > :) I see no problem with making them available for other OS's to use, > but that is already the case isnt it? > > I would tend to agree with the statement about BSDI, whether doscmd came > from them or anywhere else...Its a great OS, but not so great company > behind it. At my "day job", we have quite a few machines running BSDI, and have been pretty happy with the support and quality of software. They tend not to be as far out on the "bleeding edge" with features, but this isn't too surprising if you're trying for maximal stability. They've got some very smart and clever people hacking code over there, and with good taste. Your characterization of "... not so great company behind it." is certainly not universally accepted. louie From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 12:08:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09730 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09719 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:08:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (dt051n19.san.rr.com [204.210.32.25]) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14460; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:08:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3489B063.68804676@dal.net> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:06:59 -0800 From: Studded X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Hocking CC: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oddity with netscape and current References: <199712061101.VAA00582@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Stephen Hocking wrote: > > Quite a lot I find that after launching netscape, itwill go into a > tight loop, consuming all the CPU on a ration of about 30% user & 70% system. > This has just happened, at src-cur.3160. Has anyone else seen it? This is > netscape 4.04 communicator. I had this happen a few times right after I installed it (on a -Stable system), and I think that it was related to a mismatch between the number of display colors netscape was trying to use, and what I had avail. When I set X to start with 16 bpp this problem went away. If you want to save yourself some ram, try setting the MOZILLA_NO_ASYNC_DNS=True environment variable for the user who starts X. This prevents the ram-sucking "dns helper" that netscape spawns, and never worked right for me anyway. What I am still having problems with if anyone has a suggestion is pasting into netscape from an xterm. It doesn't work for me at all, and it's making me nuts. I'm using afterstep if that makes a difference, but I can't see that it would. Any help welcome. Doug From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 13:07:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13627 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13617 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:07:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27802; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 20:13:06 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199712062013.UAA27802@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Stephen Hocking cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oddity with netscape and current In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 21:01:08 +1000." <199712061101.VAA00582@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 20:13:06 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Quite a lot I find that after launching netscape, itwill go into a > tight loop, consuming all the CPU on a ration of about 30% user & 70% system. > This has just happened, at src-cur.3160. Has anyone else seen it? This is > netscape 4.04 communicator. This has been talked about before on these lists - you should really do an archive search ! Of course I assume you already have and just couldn't find what you were looking for...... ;-I If you remove the browser.startup.license_accepted line from your ~/.netscape/preferences.js file each time, things work - I use the following (in a `netscape' script): sed '/browser\.startup\.license_accepted/d' ~/.netscape/preferences.js >~/.netscape/preferences.js.new mv ~/.netscape/preferences.js.new ~/.netscape/preferences.js exec netscape "$@" > Stephen > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 13:57:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17632 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:57:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17627 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:57:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10551; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:08:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd010510; Sat Dec 6 15:08:23 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA09278; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:56:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062156.OAA09278@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Diffs to support RAIDframe on FreeBSD To: karl@mcs.net (Karl Denninger) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:56:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: current@freebsd.org, Jim.Zelenka@cs.cmu.edu In-Reply-To: <19971205163442.52313@mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Dec 5, 97 04:34:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Anyone gotten this to build and link on FreeBSD? > > > > URL, please. AltaVista has never heard of it. > > http://www.pdl.cs.cmu.edu/RAIDframe/ This was trivial. Here are the Diffs for FreeBSD. Jim Zelenka: I have added you to the people receiving this so you can integrate them into the RAIDFrame distribution itself. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. =============================================================================== *** SAVE/itomf Tue Nov 5 21:21:05 1996 --- itomf Sat Dec 6 21:46:19 1997 *************** *** 50,55 **** --- 50,57 ---- imake -I./config -I$X11CFGDIR -DUseInstalled -DTOPDIR=. -DSCD_SRCTOP=`pwd` -DRF_ITOMF=1 -DRF_X11CONFIGDIR=$X11CFGDIR -DRF_MAKEDEPEND=$MAKEDEPEND elif [ $SYS = "NetBSD" ]; then imake -I./config -I$X11CFGDIR -DUseInstalled -DTOPDIR=. -DSCD_SRCTOP=`pwd` -DRF_ITOMF=1 -DRF_X11CONFIGDIR=$X11CFGDIR -DRF_MAKEDEPEND=$MAKEDEPEND + elif [ $SYS = "FreeBSD" ]; then + imake -v -I./config -I$X11CFGDIR -DUseInstalled -DTOPDIR=. -DSCD_SRCTOP=`pwd` -DRF_ITOMF=1 -DRF_X11CONFIGDIR=$X11CFGDIR -DRF_MAKEDEPEND=$MAKEDEPEND elif [ $SYS = "IRIX" ]; then imake -I./config -I$X11CFGDIR -DUseInstalled -DTOPDIR=. -DSCD_SRCTOP=`pwd` -DRF_ITOMF=1 -DRF_X11CONFIGDIR=$X11CFGDIR -DRF_MAKEDEPEND=$MAKEDEPEND elif [ $SYS = "OSF1" ]; then *************** *** 63,69 **** elif [ $SYS = "HP-UX" ]; then imake -I./config -I$X11CFGDIR -DUseInstalled -DTOPDIR=. -DSCD_SRCTOP=`pwd` -DRF_ITOMF=1 -DRF_X11CONFIGDIR=$X11CFGDIR -DRF_MAKEDEPEND=$MAKEDEPEND else ! echo "Unknown system type." exit 1 fi make Makefiles --- 65,71 ---- elif [ $SYS = "HP-UX" ]; then imake -I./config -I$X11CFGDIR -DUseInstalled -DTOPDIR=. -DSCD_SRCTOP=`pwd` -DRF_ITOMF=1 -DRF_X11CONFIGDIR=$X11CFGDIR -DRF_MAKEDEPEND=$MAKEDEPEND else ! echo "Unknown system type ($SYS)." exit 1 fi make Makefiles *** SAVE/config/RAIDframe.tmpl Sat Dec 6 21:13:15 1997 --- config/RAIDframe.tmpl Sat Dec 6 21:47:33 1997 *************** *** 36,41 **** --- 36,48 ---- #define RF_MakeSubdirs(_dirs_) MakeSubdirs(_dirs_) #endif /* AIXArchitecture && (RF_OSMajorVersion == 4) */ + #ifdef FreeBSDArchitecture + #ifdef i386Architecture + ARCHDEFINES = -DFREEBSD -DFREEBSD_I386 + #endif /* i386Architecture */ + #define RF_ROLLED_SRCTOP 1 + #endif /* FreeBSDArchitecture */ + #ifdef NetBSDArchitecture #ifdef i386Architecture ARCHDEFINES = -DNETBSD -DNETBSD_I386 *** SAVE/config/RAIDframe_site.def Sat Dec 6 21:13:15 1997 --- config/RAIDframe_site.def Sat Dec 6 21:16:44 1997 *************** *** 60,70 **** ARCHLIBS= #endif /* OSF1 && AlphaArchitecture */ ! #if defined(NetBSDArchitecture) && defined(AlphaArchitecture) CC = gcc CDEBUGFLAGS = -g3 -O2 ARCHLIBS= ! #endif /* NetBSDArchitecture && AlphaArchitecture */ #ifdef AIXArchitecture #if RF_OSMajorVersion == 4 --- 60,70 ---- ARCHLIBS= #endif /* OSF1 && AlphaArchitecture */ ! #if (defined(NetBSDArchitecture) || defined(FreeBSDArchitecture)) && defined(AlphaArchitecture) CC = gcc CDEBUGFLAGS = -g3 -O2 ARCHLIBS= ! #endif /* (NetBSDArchitecture || FreeBSDArchitecture) && AlphaArchitecture */ #ifdef AIXArchitecture #if RF_OSMajorVersion == 4 *** SAVE/lib/rf_copyback.c Sat Dec 6 21:22:18 1997 --- lib/rf_copyback.c Sat Dec 6 21:24:28 1997 *************** *** 145,150 **** --- 145,153 ---- #include "rf_types.h" #include #ifndef LINUX + #ifdef FREEBSD + #include /* MAXPHYS*/ + #endif /* FREEBSD*/ #include #endif /* !LINUX */ #include "rf_raid.h" *** SAVE/lib/rf_types.h Sat Dec 6 21:26:08 1997 --- lib/rf_types.h Sat Dec 6 21:28:11 1997 *************** *** 328,334 **** #define RF_LONGSHIFT 2 #endif /* sun */ ! #if defined(NETBSD_I386) || defined(LINUX_I386) #define RF_IS_BIG_ENDIAN 0 typedef char RF_int8; typedef unsigned char RF_uint8; --- 328,334 ---- #define RF_LONGSHIFT 2 #endif /* sun */ ! #if defined(FREEBSD_I386) || defined(NETBSD_I386) || defined(LINUX_I386) #define RF_IS_BIG_ENDIAN 0 typedef char RF_int8; typedef unsigned char RF_uint8; *************** *** 339,345 **** typedef long long RF_int64; typedef unsigned long long RF_uint64; #define RF_LONGSHIFT 2 ! #endif /* NETBSD_I386 || LINUX_I386 */ #if defined(mips) && !defined(SGI) #define RF_IS_BIG_ENDIAN 0 --- 339,345 ---- typedef long long RF_int64; typedef unsigned long long RF_uint64; #define RF_LONGSHIFT 2 ! #endif /* FREEBSD_I386 || NETBSD_I386 || LINUX_I386 */ #if defined(mips) && !defined(SGI) #define RF_IS_BIG_ENDIAN 0 *** SAVE/lib/rf_sys.c Sat Dec 6 21:26:08 1997 --- lib/rf_sys.c Sat Dec 6 21:27:25 1997 *************** *** 39,47 **** #include #endif /* !KERNEL */ #include ! #if !defined(sun) && !defined(NETBSD) && !defined(LINUX) && (!defined(MACH) || defined(__osf__)) #include ! #endif /* !sun !NETBSD && !LINUX && (!MACH || __osf__) */ #include #ifdef __osf__ #include --- 39,47 ---- #include #endif /* !KERNEL */ #include ! #if !defined(sun) && !defined(FREEBSD) && !defined(NETBSD) && !defined(LINUX) && (!defined(MACH) || defined(__osf__)) #include ! #endif /* !sun !FREEBSD !NETBSD && !LINUX && (!MACH || __osf__) */ #include #ifdef __osf__ #include *** SAVE/lib/rf_etimer.h Sat Dec 6 21:26:34 1997 --- lib/rf_etimer.h Sat Dec 6 21:28:43 1997 *************** *** 254,260 **** /* * XXX investigate better timing for these */ ! #if defined(hpux) || defined(sun) || defined(NETBSD_I386) || defined(ultrix) || defined(LINUX_I386) || defined(IRIX) || (defined(MACH) && !defined(__osf__)) #include #define RF_USEC_PER_SEC 1000000 --- 254,260 ---- /* * XXX investigate better timing for these */ ! #if defined(hpux) || defined(sun) || defined(FREEBSD_I386) || defined(NETBSD_I386) || defined(ultrix) || defined(LINUX_I386) || defined(IRIX) || (defined(MACH) && !defined(__osf__)) #include #define RF_USEC_PER_SEC 1000000 *************** *** 288,293 **** #define RF_ETIMER_VAL_US(_t_) (((_t_).elapsed.tv_sec*RF_USEC_PER_SEC)+(_t_).elapsed.tv_usec) #define RF_ETIMER_VAL_MS(_t_) (((_t_).elapsed.tv_sec*RF_MSEC_PER_SEC)+((_t_).elapsed.tv_usec/1000)) ! #endif /* hpux || sun || NETBSD_I386 || ultrix || LINUX_I386 || IRIX || (MACH && !__osf__) */ #endif /* !_RF__RF_TIMER_H_ */ --- 288,293 ---- #define RF_ETIMER_VAL_US(_t_) (((_t_).elapsed.tv_sec*RF_USEC_PER_SEC)+(_t_).elapsed.tv_usec) #define RF_ETIMER_VAL_MS(_t_) (((_t_).elapsed.tv_sec*RF_MSEC_PER_SEC)+((_t_).elapsed.tv_usec/1000)) ! #endif /* hpux || sun || FREEBSD_I386 || NETBSD_I386 || ultrix || LINUX_I386 || IRIX || (MACH && !__osf__) */ #endif /* !_RF__RF_TIMER_H_ */ *** SAVE/lib/rf_general.h Sat Dec 6 21:38:19 1997 --- lib/rf_general.h Sat Dec 6 21:38:31 1997 *************** *** 213,218 **** --- 213,225 ---- #endif /* !NBPG */ #endif /* sun */ + #ifdef FREEBSD + #include + #ifndef NBPG + #define NBPG PAGE_SIZE + #endif /* !NBPG*/ + #endif /* FREEBSD*/ + #ifdef IRIX #include #define NBPG _PAGESZ *** SAVE/lib/rf_reconstruct.c Sat Dec 6 21:39:56 1997 --- lib/rf_reconstruct.c Sat Dec 6 21:41:18 1997 *************** *** 213,218 **** --- 213,221 ---- #include "rf_types.h" #include #ifndef LINUX + #ifdef FREEBSD + #include /* MAXPHYS*/ + #endif /* FREEBSD*/ #include #endif /* !LINUX */ #include =============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:02:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18089 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:02:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18052; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:02:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11042; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd011021; Sat Dec 6 15:02:43 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09641; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:01:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062201.PAA09641@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk (Philippe Regnauld) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:01:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19971205233816.15333@deepo.prosa.dk> from "Philippe Regnauld" at Dec 5, 97 11:38:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This should probably wait for ELF, though, since all the other BSD's > > are ELF now... > > Argh. Now my question :-) -- apart from our ports/package system, > there also exists at least 2 other package systems out there (all > Linux): > > - debian package (with hard/soft dependencies scheme) > - RedHat > > And I know we have the "rpm" tool in /usr/port/misc. > > How difficult/sick/twisted would it be to have some kind > of skeleton like "ports" which would be a superset of > wrappers for RPM/Debian _packages_ (not so many, only > the binary stuff we can't get in source), and then > go into the "/usr/ports/blah/foo" and do make, just > like we did when BSDI Netscape was in ports ? > > (or even better: pkg_add ApplixWare-x.x.rpm) ? I think you will want the ports/packages framework. The FreeBSD framework is less system dependent in that it can rely on source instead of binary without having to build a per package script specifically for each thing to be compiled. I would discourage rpm. I actually see this as an opportunity to get a set of tools that is the same across all BSD platforms. The problem with doing Linux at the same time (by adopting the Linux tools) is threefold: 1) BSDI is unlikely to be willing to have to become a GPL code distribution site (more than they already have to by virtue of GCC). 2) None of the BSD's are likely to want to include GPL'ed code as a critical system component. RPM can never be more than an "also-ran", IMO. 3) Linux, of course, should adopt the FreeBSD tools so it can use the packages disks out of the box. ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:06:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18315 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:06:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from vinyl.quickweb.com (vinyl.quickweb.com [209.112.4.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18305 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:06:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark@quickweb.com) Received: (from mark@localhost) by vinyl.quickweb.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA06955; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:08:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19971206170802.27180@vmunix.com> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:08:02 -0500 From: Mark Mayo To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: gozer@ludd.luth.se, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 128 PCI buses... References: <19971205231228.08693@vmunix.com> <199712060707.IAA25288@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85e In-Reply-To: <199712060707.IAA25288@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 08:07:42AM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 08:07:42AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > > > Also, for the new sound code, do you just need a line like this in > > > > the kernel config: > > next time put some indication to audio in the subject line -- it is > just by chance that I came across this message. The PCI bus problem was my major concern.. audio is just for fun afterall :-) Oddly enough, I've had help with the audio, but not the PCI problem.. > > > > device pcm0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 drq 1 flags 0x0 vector pcmintr > > > > > > > > I have an old SB-16 "classic" - i.e. not plug and play.. > > the SB16 needs two DMA channel, should change the above line with > "flags 0x15" to specify channel 5 as the 16-bit DMA channel. Yes indeed. I recompiled with "flags 0x15" and voila! - sound worked fine. Thanks! > > Unfortunately, it wouldn't work - I'd get sound, but not exactly > > what you'd call pleasant sound! Lot's a screaching, static, hissing.. > > great techno garble, but quite unpleasant otherwise :-) > > If it is really an SB16 the secondary DMA channel should fix things. > Other than that, if you are happy with the guspnp driver there is no > reason you should change :) I wanted to try both! The guspnp stuff works great, as does your new pcm sound code. Good work! I'm assuming that the new pcm code will eventually replace the older Voxware snd0 stuff in FreeBSD. Is this assumption correct? cya, -Mark > > Cheers > Luigi > -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- > Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione > email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa > tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) > fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ > _____________________________|______________________________________ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Mayo mark@vmunix.com RingZero Comp. http://www.vmunix.com/mark finger mark@vmunix.com for my PGP key and GCS code ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Win95/NT - 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -UGU From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:10:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18548 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:10:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18522; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:10:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA03207; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd003203; Sat Dec 6 14:00:49 1997 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:58:24 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Bruce Evans cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: DEVFS: John, can you suggest.. In-Reply-To: <199712060511.QAA31383@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the pointer.. I was certain it was something like that. I'll look into trying to fix this. It really needs to be the result of an ioctl on the device or some other "ask the device" operation.. I'll make this my "project of the day" (that and the laundry, now that they have Mike Smith's Canadian Quarters out of the machine and it works again) :-) julian > > > >spec_strategy > >spec_vnoperate > >spec_getpages > >spec_vnoperate > > spec_getpages() always rounds up to a multiple of a block size. However, > in the mounted case, this block size is vp->v_mount->mnt_stat.f_bsize. > Apparently f_bsize is not a multiple of 512. > > There are lots of related bogons. E.g., the cluster_write() call in > spec_strategy() flounders around using the f_bsize and other unrelated > values for the filesystem that the device node happens to be in. > Perhaps your problem is actually here. There is no problem for ffs > because spec_bmap() returns a run length of 0, so cluster_write() > reduces to a slow way of calling bawrite() or bdwrite() (depending > bogusly on whether the filesystem is mounted -async). > > Bruce > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:11:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18591 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:11:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18586 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:11:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07017; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:21:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd007004; Sat Dec 6 15:21:43 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09913; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:10:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062210.PAA09913@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: shawn@cpl.net (Shawn Ramsey) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:10:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> from "Shawn Ramsey" at Dec 5, 97 09:22:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > hmmmm... skip BSDI. they want to charge absurd amounts, so make them > > > pay for their own ports.. > > > > Isn't that kind of narrow-minded? Exactly the kind most people accuse > > many commercial companies of. FreeBSD is free, to all comers. Do you > > remember where doscmd came from? > > Why should the FreeBSD people make the port collection work with other > OS's? To get their tools to be cross-platform, and therefore be able to leverage work on other platforms which use the tools. The ports collection is an incredible club which can be wielded to force adoption of (relatively) platform independent tools. Consider if commercial binaries for BSDI were suddenly being distributed in a format understood by a FreeBSD install program... > If thats not what some people were suggesting, forget this post. > :) I see no problem with making them available for other OS's to use, > but that is already the case isnt it? There is not sufficient coordination between the various BSD's to ensure that something distributed via installer may be installed on FreeBSD. That's what FreeBSD gets out of it. This is not to say that the other camps will not need to cooperate. But I can't see why they wouldn't, since it means they get the ports collection for (pretty much) free. It's win-win. It also means that other people can add ports -- which offloads the work to non-FreeBSD people for some ports. Again, it's win-win. > I would tend to agree with the statement about BSDI, whether doscmd came > from them or anywhere else...Its a great OS, but not so great company > behind it. It is in the best interests of BSD's (and Linux -- do not forget the FPU emulation code and the Adaptec SCSI sequencer code) to cooperate with each other in the face of Microsoft not cooperating with anyone. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:13:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18758 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18752 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:13:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12472; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:14:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012459; Sat Dec 6 15:14:06 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09991; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:13:03 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062213.PAA09991@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:13:03 +0000 (GMT) Cc: shawn@cpl.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199712060641.XAA14258@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Dec 5, 97 11:41:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > : Why should the FreeBSD people make the port collection work with other > : OS's? If thats not what some people were suggesting, forget this post. > > there are lots of reasons for wanting it. the ports are more common > than they are different. only a limited number of volunteers, etc. Total all volunteers for all camps and rerun your calculation. 8-). > however, as a practical matter, the number of differences between the > systems is large enough to cause enough problems that separate trees > really are a good thing at this time. This argues for a metadefinition of distinctions between systems. I'd even argue that this survey could be reused to great benefit in eliminating gratuitous differences. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:16:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18938 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18933 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:16:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA12751; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd012739; Sat Dec 6 15:16:27 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10149; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:15:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062215.PAA10149@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:15:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: shawn@cpl.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199712060705.CAA00349@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Dec 6, 97 02:05:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think that we should spend our limited resources on making sure > that ports work on other OSes. I agree. That's for the other OSes limited resources to be spen on. It's a case of not excluding something, not of doing work to include it. > I just think that we all should stay focused on what we need to do > for OUR OS. Like leveraging the other OS's efforts instead of duplicating them? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:22:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19353 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:22:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19337 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:22:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA15211; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:21:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:21:57 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Brian Somers cc: Stephen Hocking , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oddity with netscape and current In-Reply-To: <199712062013.UAA27802@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > If you remove the browser.startup.license_accepted line from your > ~/.netscape/preferences.js file each time, things work - I use the > following (in a `netscape' script): Also from the archives, adding this: export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null to the netscape startup script solved hang-on-start problem for me. It doesn't solve the hang-on-exit problem though. I still have to kill -9 about half the time to get it to stop. :( -john From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:32:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19907 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:32:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19883; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:32:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26887; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:53:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd026865; Sat Dec 6 08:53:22 1997 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10526; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:22:27 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199712062222.PAA10526@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? To: phk@critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:22:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: kline@thought.org, imp@village.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, tlambert@primenet.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <17648.881402113@critter.freebsd.dk> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Dec 6, 97 10:55:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >According to Warner Losh: > > > > If there are fewer than 10 gotchas, a merger still makes > > sense to me. If OpenBSD is too different from FreeBSD, > > NetBSD shouldn't be. > > There are about 125 gotchas as of my last count. Any chance that these can make it to a FreeBSD WWW page somewhere? I left my Doctor Emmett Lanthrop Brown mindreading helmet in my other suit... ;-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 14:44:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20543 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:44:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20527 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:44:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00144; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:54:02 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199712062154.VAA00144@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Evan Champion cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: _POSIX_SAVED_IDS In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 10:11:35 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 21:54:01 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was compiling a program (Kerberos 5) on BSD/OS a couple days ago and > found that I was running in to trouble because BSDI's setreuid() doesn't > work very well (it seems that once you get to root, you can't switch to > another user), so just for kicks I decided to go compare the BSDI > setreuid() with the one from FreeBSD. > > Anyway, along the way I found that kern/kern_prot.c seems to be fully > loaded with #ifdefs for _POSIX_SAVED_IDS, but _POSIX_SAVED_IDS is not > defined by default. > > Is it just because not everything is up to handling a saved-id setuid()? AFAIK, setreuid() doesn't use saved ids - setreuid() should only be used to swap your euid and uid. Disclaimer - this is an assumption, I may be wrong. However, seteuid() works ok for me (/usr/src/usr.sbin/ppp/id.c), which implies that saved uids are functional. > Evan > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 15:02:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA21797 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:02:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from conductor.synapse.net (conductor.synapse.net [199.84.54.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA21784 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:02:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from evanc@synapse.net) Received: (qmail 25630 invoked from network); 6 Dec 1997 23:02:03 -0000 Received: from cello.synapse.net (199.84.54.81) by conductor.synapse.net with SMTP; 6 Dec 1997 23:02:03 -0000 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:02:02 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Champion To: Brian Somers cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: _POSIX_SAVED_IDS In-Reply-To: <199712062154.VAA00144@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > AFAIK, setreuid() doesn't use saved ids - setreuid() should only be > used to swap your euid and uid. Disclaimer - this is an assumption, > I may be wrong. It does check the saved-set to see if you should be able to setreuid(), but does not touch the saved-set IDs. However, this wasn't what I was trying to imply; setuid() and setreuid() are in the same file (sys/kern/kern_prot.c) and while looking for setreuid() I passed through setuid() where the _POSIX_SAVED_IDS #ifdefs are... The reason behind all this is that the BSD/OS setreuid() doesn't seem to do what it's supposed to which breaks Kerberos 5. Interestingly enough, on BSD/OS 3.1, setreuid(r,e) is just a wrapper around seteuid(e). Even more interesting, in the compat libraries there is a setruid() which uses setreuid() to set the real UID -- but setreuid() is seteuid() so the real ID is never changed :-) Here's a problem for you: on systems where I have a saved-set seteuid(), I would prefer to use it instead of a setreuid() swap. How do I tell if I have a saved-set seteuid() if _POSIX_SAVED_IDS is not defined (besides running a setuid test program -- I'd prefer something that autoconf could figure out on its own)? Evan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 15:11:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22582 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:11:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22571 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:11:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA08464 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA06842; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:23 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199712062311.QAA06842@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wd0 interrupt timeout X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Again, spam killers have been killing *real* email. ------- start of forwarded message ------- From: Nate Williams To: Kris Kennaway Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:05:53 -0700 > For the past several days (the first time being on Dec 2 as shown) I've been > seeing the following messages popping up: > > Dec 2 12:09:11 morden /kernel: wd0: interrupt timeout: > Dec 2 12:09:11 morden /kernel: wd0: status 50 error 0 > Dec 2 12:09:11 morden /kernel: wd0: wdtimeout() DMA status 4 ... > > The system will completely hang for several seconds - no process > activity, no disk activity, nothing - then the drive in question makes > the "powering up" sound it does when I first power up the machine, the > error appears on the console and activity resumes. I see this on my laptop, and I suspect a bad disk drive, and/or a bad sector that isn't getting mapped automagically. Nate ------- end of forwarded message ------- From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 15:23:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23498 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from tera.com (tera.tera.com [207.108.223.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23482; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:22:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tera.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id PAA02572; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA15949; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Kline Message-Id: <199712062255.OAA15949@tao.thought.org> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712062222.PAA10526@usr02.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 6, 97 10:22:27 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: phk@critter.freebsd.dk, kline@thought.org, imp@village.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk, tlambert@primenet.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Organization: <> thought.org: public access uNix in service... <> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Terry Lambert: > > >According to Warner Losh: > > > > > > If there are fewer than 10 gotchas, a merger still makes > > > sense to me. If OpenBSD is too different from FreeBSD, > > > NetBSD shouldn't be. > > > > There are about 125 gotchas as of my last count. > > Any chance that these can make it to a FreeBSD WWW page somewhere? > I left my Doctor Emmett Lanthrop Brown mindreading helmet in my > other suit... ;-). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > I've like to see just 10 major|minor tweaks. Seriously. As will soon be known, the Tera MTA machine uses BSD. Our devel environment was a maze that suported 4 or 5 separate build environments and GNU make rather than pmake|BSD make. With hacks to the Free|Net /usr/share/mk files, and some to the port makefiles, a single release set could support all flavors of BSD. Joining 3 teams multiplies the ports and the usefulness of any BSD. If we could wrap in Linux ports, WC could sell billions and billions of sets....but I'd be happy to take the simpler tack. gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 15:55:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25709 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:55:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from ppp7267.on.bellglobal.com (ppp6535.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25698 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:55:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@ppp7267.on.bellglobal.com) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by ppp7267.on.bellglobal.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA14785; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:40:26 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from tim@ppp7267.on.bellglobal.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:40:25 -0500 (EST) From: Tim Vanderhoek Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Shawn Ramsey cc: Chuck Robey , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <3488E112.4BD862AF@cpl.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Shawn Ramsey wrote: > I would tend to agree with the statement about BSDI, whether doscmd came > from them or anywhere else...Its a great OS, but not so great company > behind it. There's no need to adopt an adverserial position, however. Certainly no one should need to go far out of their way to help BSDi, (or NetBSD, or OpenBSD, or Linux), but a little consideration for other OSs is a good thing. I think sometimes it's easy to slip into adverserial mode and Chuck (and I) is just trying to ward off that danger in advance. :) As far as the specific issue, there's no need to go and test all our ports on BSD/OS! :) OTOH, if one reads the porting guidelines, one should notice the expectation to use "#ifdef BSD" in place of "#ifdef __FreeBSD__". Of course, as the porting project assumes a life of its own apart from FreeBSD specifically, it will start to desire increasing cross-platform capability, just as any project would (eg. XFree compiles on more than just FreeBSD :). Such a desire will come on its own time, however. It should not be forced. :) -- tIM...HOEk OPTIMIZATION: the process of using many one-letter variables names hoping that the resultant code will run faster. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 15:59:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25975 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:59:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25967 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 15:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id SAA07293; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:57:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712062357.SAA07293@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712062210.PAA09913@usr02.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Dec 6, 97 10:10:51 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:57:08 -0500 (EST) Cc: shawn@cpl.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert said: > > > > hmmmm... skip BSDI. they want to charge absurd amounts, so make them > > > > pay for their own ports.. > > > > > > Isn't that kind of narrow-minded? Exactly the kind most people accuse > > > many commercial companies of. FreeBSD is free, to all comers. Do you > > > remember where doscmd came from? > > > > Why should the FreeBSD people make the port collection work with other > > OS's? > > To get their tools to be cross-platform, and therefore be able > to leverage work on other platforms which use the tools. > When we have more than 1 or 2 platforms, then it will be *start* being important. My opinions are not "PC", so if you are easily politically offended, please cease reading here. > > There is not sufficient coordination between the various BSD's to > ensure that something distributed via installer may be installed > on FreeBSD. That's what FreeBSD gets out of it. > I see the problem with our cooperation being similar to the Microsoft scheme of adopt, modify incompatibly and subsume. Let's not waste our time. There is a severe amount of NIH abounding in other projects. > > It's win-win. > Sadly, nope, not right now. > > It also means that other people can add ports -- which offloads the > work to non-FreeBSD people for some ports. > It won't work that way. It will be more like our technology with modifications will be adopted, and we will be left out in the cold. Let's continue forward, and let other groups cooperate with us. We are much less likely to change our standards (due to inertia), and there is safety for them in that fact. > > Again, it's win-win. > I think that there are some assumptions here. It is a good idea to learn from history, and let's not make things more complicated than they already are. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 16:06:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26494 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:06:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26488 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) id TAA07319; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:03:48 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199712070003.TAA07319@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-Reply-To: <199712062004.PAA27466@whizzo.TransSys.COM> from "Louis A. Mamakos" at "Dec 6, 97 03:04:59 pm" To: louie@TransSys.COM (Louis A. Mamakos) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:03:48 -0500 (EST) Cc: shawn@cpl.net, chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Louis A. Mamakos said: > > At my "day job", we have quite a few machines running BSDI, and have > been pretty happy with the support and quality of software. They tend > not to be as far out on the "bleeding edge" with features, but this > isn't too surprising if you're trying for maximal stability. They've > got some very smart and clever people hacking code over there, and > with good taste. > > Your characterization of "... not so great company behind it." is certainly > not universally accepted. > I tend to agree that there is little to be gained by putting BSDI, any other *BSD, or even *Linux down. I think that we are all proud of FreeBSD, and incorrect statements about FreeBSD are best refuted. Let's not put other OSes (or developers) down publically, and maybe sometimes make the same mistake. -- John dyson@freebsd.org jdyson@nc.com From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 16:11:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26799 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26791 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00679; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:11:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199712070011.QAA00679@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Mark Mayo cc: Luigi Rizzo , gozer@ludd.luth.se, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 128 PCI buses... In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:08:02 EST." <19971206170802.27180@vmunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:11:07 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I wanted to try both! The guspnp stuff works great, as does your > new pcm sound code. Good work! I'm assuming that the new pcm code > will eventually replace the older Voxware snd0 stuff in FreeBSD. > Is this assumption correct? > Your assumption is correct. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 16:25:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28066 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28052 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:25:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA08747; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 16:25:15 -0800 (PST) To: Terry Lambert cc: shawn@cpl.net (Shawn Ramsey), chuckr@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0 -release ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 22:10:51 GMT." <199712062210.PAA09913@usr02.primenet.com> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 16:25:15 -0800 Message-ID: <8744.881454315@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's win-win. Coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't actually have to do any of the work-work involved, I'm sure it is! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 18:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07030 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:29:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (root@dingo.cc.uq.edu.au [130.102.2.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07011 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:29:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au [203.101.242.9]) by dingo.cc.uq.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01978; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:28:54 +1000 (GMT+1000) Received: from zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (localhost.craftncomp.com [127.0.0.1]) by zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00763; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:37:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from shocking@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au) Message-Id: <199712070237.MAA00763@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Fieber cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oddity with netscape and current In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:21:57 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 12:37:37 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Also from the archives, adding this: > > export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null > > to the netscape startup script solved hang-on-start problem for > me. It doesn't solve the hang-on-exit problem though. I still > have to kill -9 about half the time to get it to stop. :( > > -john > This appears to have done the trick. Nutscrape had been working fine for me for ages though, which is why I was a little puzzled about it starting to mess up after a src update. Thanks for all the replys (and no - I'd not searched through the archives (ulp!). Stephen From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 18:48:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08552 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:48:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (fallout.campusview.indiana.edu [149.159.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA08540 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 18:48:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jfieber@indiana.edu) Received: from localhost (jfieber@localhost) by fallout.campusview.indiana.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA15918; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:48:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 21:48:19 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber To: Stephen Hocking cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oddity with netscape and current In-Reply-To: <199712070237.MAA00763@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Stephen Hocking wrote: > > Also from the archives, adding this: > > > > export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null > > > > to the netscape startup script solved hang-on-start problem for [snip] > This appears to have done the trick. Nutscrape had been working fine > for me for ages though, which is why I was a little puzzled about it starting > to mess up after a src update. For the record, the problem which this solves/works-around exists in FreeBSD-2.2.5/XFree86-3.3.1 as well as (I gather) current (and what version of X?). I'm using a 16 bit display and have not tried it on 8 or 24. The reports on what works with what combinations of FreeBSD, Netscape, and X11 have been rather inconsistent--some curious methods of suppressing the symptoms have been discovered but does anyone have a clue about the problem? -john From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 19:42:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11192 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11187 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:42:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id OAA21210; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:42:04 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19971207144204.50524@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:42:04 +1100 From: David Dawes To: current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oddity with netscape and current References: <199712070237.MAA00763@zzshocki.dialin.uq.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from John Fieber on Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 09:48:19PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, Dec 06, 1997 at 09:48:19PM -0500, John Fieber wrote: >On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Stephen Hocking wrote: > >> > Also from the archives, adding this: >> > >> > export XCMSDB; XCMSDB=/dev/null >> > >> > to the netscape startup script solved hang-on-start problem for > >[snip] > >> This appears to have done the trick. Nutscrape had been working fine >> for me for ages though, which is why I was a little puzzled about it starting >> to mess up after a src update. > >For the record, the problem which this solves/works-around exists >in FreeBSD-2.2.5/XFree86-3.3.1 as well as (I gather) current (and >what version of X?). I'm using a 16 bit display and have not >tried it on 8 or 24. The reports on what works with what >combinations of FreeBSD, Netscape, and X11 have been rather >inconsistent--some curious methods of suppressing the symptoms >have been discovered but does anyone have a clue about the >problem? I don't see it with FreeBSD-2.2.2/XFree86-3.3.1, netscape 4.04 (I'm currently running at 16bpp). Given the XCMSDB solution, is it possible that those who see this have a file called Xcms.txt installed in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11? That file was distributed with some earlier XFree86 releases (which turned out to be a bad idea), and some people might have still have it around. David From owner-freebsd-current Sat Dec 6 23:53:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24936 for current-outgoing; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:53:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-current) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA24931 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp id AA19898; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:53:06 +0900 Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id RAA11524; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:00:01 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199712070800.RAA11524@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Cc: yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: WARNING: up coming mouse support code Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 17:00:00 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In the next few hours I will be committing improved mouse support code to 3.0-CURRENT. This change will affect psm, mse, syscons/sysmouse drivers, vidcontrol and moused. You will need to `make world' and rebuild the kernel. You must do BOTH, otherwise vidcontrol and moused won't work due to changes in mouse ioctls. You have been warned :-) Kazu PS: this change will add support for the following mice: Microsoft IntelliMouse (serial, PS/2, 3 buttons, wheel) Kensignton ThinkingMouse (serial, PS/2$@!$(J4 buttons) ALPS GlidePoint (serial, PS/2$@!$(J3 buttons) Genius NetScroll (PS/2$@!$(J4 buttons, wheel) Genius NetMouse (serial, PS/2, 2 buttons + magic button) Genius NetMouse Pro (serial, PS/2, 3 buttons + magic button) ASCII MieMouse (serial, PS/2, 3 buttons, knob) Logitech MouseMan+ (serial, PS/2, 4 buttons, wheel) Logitech FirstMouse+ (serial, PS/2, 3 buttons, wheel) (IBM TrackPoint (a mouse with a stick between two buttons) is not directly supported, but recognized and work as IntelliMouse.)