From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jan 5 08:53:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA05543 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 08:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsd.fs.bauing.th-darmstadt.de (bsd.fs.bauing.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.63.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id IAA05530 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 08:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [195.52.251.6] (apfel.nacamar.de [195.52.251.6]) by bsd.fs.bauing.th-darmstadt.de (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA22239 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:51:31 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: petzi@mail.apfel.de Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:51:27 +0100 To: hardware@freebsd.org From: Michael Beckmann Subject: netstat: input errors Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I see a lot of input errors on my Ethernet interface. What might be the cause ? network: Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll de0 1500 00.00.c0.27.b5.de 275357767 7383752 344525279 82 56538965 When I do a netstat -w 1, then it shows no errors for a long time, but then, for minutes, it shows these errors, like here: input (Total) output packets errs bytes packets errs bytes colls 232 150 35183 197 0 92208 29 154 91 25486 123 0 45647 1 156 52 56985 143 0 107687 7 161 54 47991 190 0 112703 9 193 116 35476 140 0 89399 21 196 31 27814 217 0 208017 9 236 112 42812 224 0 184953 27 269 89 33995 282 0 274602 26 182 108 25034 117 0 76181 8 110 52 17721 103 0 51149 3 172 52 38460 182 0 105599 14 315 51 87856 378 0 226361 46 232 133 33300 215 0 99761 25 242 70 70229 302 0 142273 30 218 159 25696 126 0 67936 11 151 55 33533 143 0 93400 4 I am not sure what this is related to. This is a FreeBSD 2.1.5-RELEASE system. BTW, is the de0 driver full-duplex capable ? Cheers, Michael From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jan 5 10:01:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA08096 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA08091 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:01:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.fr [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA01788 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:01:09 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id TAA20323 for hardware@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:00:38 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.4/keltia-uucp-2.9) id SAA27830; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:54:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:54:25 +0100 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: netstat: input errors References: X-Mailer: Mutt 0.55.15 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT ctm#2837 In-Reply-To: ; from Michael Beckmann on Jan 5, 1997 17:51:27 +0100 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Michael Beckmann: > I see a lot of input errors on my Ethernet interface. What might be the > cause ? Last time I saw an enthernet in that state, it was dying :-( > BTW, is the de0 driver full-duplex capable ? I think so. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 3.0-CURRENT #33: Sat Dec 21 12:57:17 CET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jan 5 10:12:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA08359 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:12:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA08354 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.7.6/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA28709; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:11:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701051811.KAA28709@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Beckmann cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: netstat: input errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Jan 1997 17:51:27 +0100." From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:11:14 -0800 Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I see a lot of input errors on my Ethernet interface. What might be the cause ? Most likely you have a host on the same network that is having serious problems (bad cable or something). >BTW, is the de0 driver full-duplex capable ? No, unfortunately. We don't currently have any ethernet drivers that support full duplex. :-( -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jan 5 13:50:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA16394 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:50:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA16389 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:50:26 -0800 (PST) From: BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com (ccgate.infoworld.com [192.216.49.101]) by lserver.infoworld.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/GNAC-GW-2.1) with SMTP id NAA07712; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by ccgate.infoworld.com (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA852500738; Sun, 05 Jan 97 14:42:29 PST Date: Sun, 05 Jan 97 14:42:29 PST Message-Id: <9700058525.AA852500738@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: dg@root.com, petzi@apfel.de Cc: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: netstat: input errors Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I see a lot of input errors on my Ethernet interface. What might be the > cause? Could it be that you have a hub which prevents stations from talking by "chattering" at them? --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jan 5 19:15:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA03444 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:15:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from stcgate.statcan.ca (stcgate.statcan.ca [142.206.192.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA03433 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by stcgate.statcan.ca (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA14229 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:17:14 -0500 Received: from stcinet.statcan.ca(142.206.128.146) by stcgate via smap (V1.3) id sma014216; Mon Jan 6 03:17:01 1997 Received: from statcan.ca by statcan.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA24960; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:19:15 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:12:55 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Jeays X-Sender: jeays@austral To: hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Defective motherboard? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have recently upgraded my machine to a Pentium 120, with a motherboard by Gigabyte, and 16 Mb of memory. I am experiencing occasional (once or twice a day) crashes, in which either the machine freezes, or it spontaneously reboots. This happened with release 2.1.5, and also with the 2.2-BETA. It seems to happen when memory usage is high, but I can never duplicate it. I have tried disabling the ROM BIOS cache, and have played the combinations on other BIOS settings. I have no doubt it is a hardware problem; my 486-33 ran 2.1.0 for weeks, and never crashed. My problem is to convince the vendor that I have a real problem - he knows nothing of UNIX. (The machine wil run Win95, but I have also seen occasional errors there, such as Explorer trying to execute an invalid instruction or causing a page fault.) Questions - my swap partition is only 16MB, the same size as real memory. Would this hurt stability as well as impair performance? (It is a big slice out of my 212 MB BSD disk, and I don't want to buy a new disk until the hardware is stable.) Is it likely to be memory or the motherboard? I presume the CPU is not the problem. If the motherboard, am I likely to have a defective specimen, or should I get it replaced by an ASUS or other more expensive board? Is there any free software that will help diagnose hardware problems of this kind? Any other advice, such as strategy in dealing with the vendor, please? From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jan 5 19:58:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA05223 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:58:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA05216 for ; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:58:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ginger.eng.umd.edu (ginger.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.20]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA29169; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by ginger.eng.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09397; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:58:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: ginger.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 22:58:22 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@ginger.eng.umd.edu To: Mike Jeays cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Defective motherboard? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Mike Jeays wrote: > Questions - my swap partition is only 16MB, the same size as > real memory. Would this hurt stability as well as impair > performance? (It is a big slice out of my 212 MB BSD disk, > and I don't want to buy a new disk until the hardware is stable.) > > Is it likely to be memory or the motherboard? I presume the CPU > is not the problem. If the motherboard, am I likely to have a > defective specimen, or should I get it replaced by an ASUS or other > more expensive board? > > Is there any free software that will help diagnose hardware problems > of this kind? > > Any other advice, such as strategy in dealing with the vendor, please? I had a problem like this once. Most vendors will take their cue from you ... if you go to them and tell them it doesn't work, and that you wanted to run unix on it, they will go out of their way to make sure it works. They can swap out all your memory, or the motherboard, or anything they have to, until it finally works. Main points: 1) There isn't _any_ program that can adequately test memory, so stop looking for one. The only sure method is a memory tester (which does work fine), but swapping memory will usually catch such problems. 2) It doesn't have to be memory, it could be the motherboard. Only way to test this is a swapout. 3) If you go the the vendor and give him very strong indications that you don't trust the software, he will likely take the cue from you, and not do the testing required. FreeBSD _is_ solid, and _does_ work, please have faith in this, it's true. Explain that to your hardware vendor, and they will work until things are correct. 4) Don't jump to any conclusions as to what piece of hardware it is; a fouled up disk can cause panics as easily as a motherboard or memory. A network card that has a shared memory interface can do it easily. Let the vendor solve the problem, just be ready to test it. If you can get it to do several make worlds serially, that's likely a fair test. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jan 6 04:06:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA01216 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from sundial.sundial.net (root@sundial.sundial.net [204.181.150.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id EAA01194; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pbsj.com (pbsj.com [204.181.150.140]) by sundial.sundial.net (8.8.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA19109; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 07:05:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ORLANDO-Message_Server by pbsj.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:06:25 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:10:53 -0500 From: Frank Hahnel To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Unsubscribe Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe freebsd-questions fjhahnel@pbsj.com unsubscribe freebsd-hardware fjhahnel@pbsj.com From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 8 06:06:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA06293 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 06:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (maelstrom.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id GAA06288 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 06:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaat81.dial.pipex.com by maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (8.8.3/) id OAA11288; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:06:22 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108135447.006976cc@pop.dial.pipex.com> X-Sender: aat81@pop.dial.pipex.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:05:02 +0000 To: grog@lemis.de From: Simon Reading Subject: Support when getting DDS drives repaired Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In comp.sys.hp.hardware "Stephen Whitlock" wrote: > My experience with Hewlett Packard and the C1553A has been >less than satisfactory. My company had a C1553A for >backing up its main server. It stopped working after about >13 months. The problem seemed to be attributable to the >heads. The backup loads were not unreasonable (never >exceeding 3.5 hours a night, 5 days a week). But it >completely failed and left us without a backup. > > The biggest problem came with trying to get the failed >drive serviced. I spent at least 12 hours over several >days on the phone with HP trying to find some way to get it >fixed, replaced, serviced, etc. Finally, they informed me >of the Express Exhange program which is where they ship you >a refurbished drive. Then you send in your broken one. I >was given a ship date from them of 3-5 days (as opposed to >the advertised 24 hours). After three weeks, I called >again, and they said it was back ordered for at least >another 7 days. After a month from the original order >date, they said that no refurbished drives would ship >before a month. (This is in addition to the month I had >already waited!) Greg When you have had your drives repaired, did you have to send them back to the manufacturer (HP or EXABYTE) or did you return the drive to your dealer and he fixed it (replaced the heads etc)? If you returned your drive to the manufacturer, what was their support like? Is getting the heads repaired on a DDS drive expensive? Cheers, Simon PS. That exabyte drive that was giving you problems, did you ever get it to work with freebsd? From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 8 09:00:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA17250 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA17245 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vi1Mm-000QYwC; Wed, 8 Jan 97 18:00 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id QAA04077; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:39:15 +0100 (MET) From: grog@lemis.de Message-Id: <199701081539.QAA04077@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Support when getting DDS drives repaired In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970108135447.006976cc@pop.dial.pipex.com> from Simon Reading at "Jan 8, 97 02:05:02 pm" To: aat81@dial.pipex.com (Simon Reading) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:39:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hardware Users) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simon Reading writes: > In comp.sys.hp.hardware "Stephen Whitlock" wrote: >> My experience with Hewlett Packard and the C1553A has been >> less than satisfactory. My company had a C1553A for >> backing up its main server. It stopped working after about >> 13 months. The problem seemed to be attributable to the >> heads. The backup loads were not unreasonable (never >> exceeding 3.5 hours a night, 5 days a week). But it >> completely failed and left us without a backup. >> >> The biggest problem came with trying to get the failed >> drive serviced. I spent at least 12 hours over several >> days on the phone with HP trying to find some way to get it >> fixed, replaced, serviced, etc. Finally, they informed me >> of the Express Exhange program which is where they ship you >> a refurbished drive. Then you send in your broken one. I >> was given a ship date from them of 3-5 days (as opposed to >> the advertised 24 hours). After three weeks, I called >> again, and they said it was back ordered for at least >> another 7 days. After a month from the original order >> date, they said that no refurbished drives would ship >> before a month. (This is in addition to the month I had >> already waited!) > > Greg > > When you have had your drives repaired, did you have to send them back to > the manufacturer (HP or EXABYTE) or did you return the drive to your dealer > and he fixed it (replaced the heads etc)? I went to a place on Stevens Creek in Santa Clara, called Digital Repair Technology. Really a rather primitive looking joint. > If you returned your drive to the manufacturer, what was their support like? > > Is getting the heads repaired on a DDS drive expensive? Yes. The 35480A cost $250, the Exabyte $300. > PS. That exabyte drive that was giving you problems, did you ever get it to > work with freebsd? The problem wasn't with FreeBSD. It worked fine until it failed. I gave the tape to a friend of mine, and just today he said he had trouble with it on a different machine, so there's a possibility that it was the tapes (I tried several) and not the drive. The jury's still out on this one, but I'll keep you posted. Greg From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 8 09:51:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA19952 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:51:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA19939 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) From: BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com (ccgate.infoworld.com [192.216.49.101]) by lserver.infoworld.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/GNAC-GW-2.1) with SMTP id JAA04774; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by ccgate.infoworld.com (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA852745563; Wed, 08 Jan 97 10:26:48 PST Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 10:26:48 PST Message-Id: <9700088527.AA852745563@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: Simon Reading , grog@lemis.de Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Support when getting DDS drives repaired Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk HP's after-sales support is virtually nonexistent. Warranty service is slow, and after the warranty expires, service often costs more than the equipment is worth. They won't supply parts (such as keycaps or keyboard springs for laptops), but insist instead on swapping out the entire component at an outrageous price. And the support lines are usually 900 numbers. This is HP's way of discouraging you from calling at all. YMMV, of course, but I do not buy HP equipment anymore -- especially PCs, laptops, and printers. --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 8 10:28:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA21942 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis.idirect.com (root@nemesis.idirect.com [207.136.80.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA21933 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hometown.idirect.com (carrera@hometown.idirect.com [207.136.66.27]) by nemesis.idirect.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA29663 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:28:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (carrera@localhost) by hometown.idirect.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17504 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:04:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: hometown.idirect.com: carrera owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:04:22 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Lixfeld To: FreeBSD hardware Users Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <199701081539.QAA04077@freebie.lemis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsibscribe From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 8 15:47:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA09406 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA09400 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:47:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id NAA28719; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:47:06 -1000 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:47:06 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199701082347.NAA28719@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Simon Reading "Support when getting DDS drives repaired" (Jan 8, 2:05pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Support when getting DDS drives repaired Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } } When you have had your drives repaired, did you have to send them back to } the manufacturer (HP or EXABYTE) or did you return the drive to your dealer } and he fixed it (replaced the heads etc)? } There's quite a number of outfits that repair Exabyte drives. Richard From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jan 8 16:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA12073 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway.ormond.unimelb.edu.au (College.ormond.unimelb.edu.au [203.17.189.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA12055 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:13:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gavin@localhost) by gateway.ormond.unimelb.edu.au (8.8.3/8.6.9) id LAA01745 for hardware@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:13:50 +1100 (EST) From: Gavin Cameron Message-Id: <199701090013.LAA01745@gateway.ormond.unimelb.edu.au> Subject: Re: multiport ethernet (fwd) To: hardware@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:13:49 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, On the 9th of December I got the following from Rod Grimes, it was regarding support for the Znyx 346 4 port 10/100 Mbit cards. Does anyone have a copy of the driver that Rod talks about? I really need this code so I can get a router happening. Is this code being back ported to 2.1.6.1 and 2.2? thanks Gavin > > Do you have any idea when the code for the ZX346 will be ready for testing? > > No, sorry, business has me rather busy with a company move right now and > that is sucking up all my time. I probably won't even get to look at the > de driver again until christmas time. > > If your running -current I can give you the driver file that does compile, > seems to work on NEW model cards, but breaks most if not all older model > cards. > From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 11:00:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA15414 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (maelstrom.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.52]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA15401 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaat81.dial.pipex.com by maelstrom.dial.pipex.net (8.8.3/) id SAA15620; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:58:40 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970109183706.006936c4@pop.dial.pipex.com> X-Sender: aat81@pop.dial.pipex.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 18:58:04 +0000 To: gfoster@gfoster.com, grog@lemis.de From: Simon Reading Subject: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm considering 8mm exabyte as a (?more reliable) alternative to 4mm DAT. Would you recommend these drives? Regards Simon From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 14:00:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA24067 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:00:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA24062 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com (ccgate.infoworld.com [192.216.49.101]) by lserver.infoworld.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/GNAC-GW-2.1) with SMTP id OAA19771; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:02:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by ccgate.infoworld.com (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA852846957; Thu, 09 Jan 97 14:53:22 PST Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 14:53:22 PST Message-Id: <9700098528.AA852846957@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: Simon Reading , gfoster@gfoster.com, grog@lemis.de Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm considering 8mm exabyte as a (?more reliable) alternative to 4mm DAT. > Would you recommend these drives? > Regards > Simon I sure would. They're slow at random access, and at loading and unloading tapes, but streaming data transfer rates are high and they're tough as nails. Spares are widely available, as are cleaning tapes and calibration tools (which are similar to those for 8mm camcorders). You can even use camcorder tapes in a pinch. (Your error rates will be higher, but since the drive does a read-after-write it will catch errors on the fly and write the data again during the same pass.) I use a Tallgrass drive (which might as well be an Exabyte). It was OEMed by Exabyte, which subsequently bought out Tallgrass. Each tape holds 5 GB uncompressed and an average of 8 GB when you use the built-in STAC compression chip. (GZIP compression seems to do better than LZS, though it makes recovering from a dump tape more complicated.) The newer 8mm drives can put even more on a tape and can read tapes made by older ones. Probably the best thing about these drives is that, since they've been around for years, every OS and tape backup program known to Mankind has a driver for them. The model I own has one minor flaw: while it's executing certain SCSI commands (such as "rewind") it just doesn't respond to additional ones. Some tape software for DOS and Windows is confused by this behavior. But most programs and drivers are aware of this limitation. --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 14:59:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA26840 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA26833 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13]) by who.cdrom.com (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA16319 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2) id KAA05634; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:50:33 -1000 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:50:33 -1000 From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Message-Id: <199701092050.KAA05634@pegasus.com> In-Reply-To: Simon Reading "Recommend 8mm exabyte drives?" (Jan 9, 6:58pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk } } I'm considering 8mm exabyte as a (?more reliable) alternative to 4mm DAT. } } Would you recommend these drives? } I've been using them for many years with good results. I have the $300 2Gig unit at home which works well with $3 Sony video tapes. And I use a number of 14Gig units at work, including a two-drive ten-tape juke-box (SparcStorage Library) which all work fairly well. We stick with official data quality tapes for the higher capacity units. Mostly, you just need to clean them regularly. And if you use them heavily the heads will wear out -- though apparently much less quickly than on DAT drives. There are also fewer compatibility problems between different drives with Exabytes than with DATs. Fewer different formats. Richard From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 17:02:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA03683 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA03672 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) id LAA29475; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:32:20 +1030 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199701100102.LAA29475@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970109183706.006936c4@pop.dial.pipex.com> from Simon Reading at "Jan 9, 97 06:58:04 pm" To: aat81@dial.pipex.com (Simon Reading) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:32:19 +1030 (CST) Cc: gfoster@gfoster.com, grog@lemis.de, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simon Reading stands accused of saying: > I'm considering 8mm exabyte as a (?more reliable) alternative to 4mm DAT. > > Would you recommend these drives? Providing you appreciate that any computer tape unit requires continual care and respect, they're quite OK units. However, if you abuse them, they'll bite you just as hard as any other. > Simon -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 18:25:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA07543 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:25:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from freenet1.afn.org (freenet1.afn.org [128.227.163.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA07536; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bcs@localhost) by freenet1.afn.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA20890; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:25:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:25:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199701100225.VAA20890@freenet1.afn.org> From: "Bradley C. Spatz" To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Natoma PPRO freezes with 2.1.6R. CC: hardware@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi. I just unpacked a SuperMicro P6DNF (Natoma, 440FX) with 1 PPRO 180Mhz CPU, 64M EDO RAM, 2940UW SCSI, SMC8432BTA ethernet. I installed 2.1.6R and began to compile a custom kernel. At various stages -- either during "make depend" or "make" -- the system simply freezes. No errors on the console or in /var/log/messages. Is there a problem with this motherboard or with Natoma/440FX boards? I'm surprised FreeBSD is crashing so hard. I have 2.1.5R running fine on an Intel board with a P133 and an ASUS with an AMD-586-133. Any help out there? Anyone running 2.1.6R on similar hardware? Please email directly and I'll summarize back to the list. Regards. -- Bradley C. Spatz http://www.afn.org/~bcs/ bcs@afn.org From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 19:04:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA09849 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (root@po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id TAA09827; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:04:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from protocol.eng.umd.edu (protocol.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.180]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15751; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:04:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by protocol.eng.umd.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA11010; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:04:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: protocol.eng.umd.edu: chuckr owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:04:33 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@protocol.eng.umd.edu To: "Bradley C. Spatz" cc: questions@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Natoma PPRO freezes with 2.1.6R. In-Reply-To: <199701100225.VAA20890@freenet1.afn.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Bradley C. Spatz wrote: > Hi. > > I just unpacked a SuperMicro P6DNF (Natoma, 440FX) with 1 PPRO 180Mhz > CPU, 64M EDO RAM, 2940UW SCSI, SMC8432BTA ethernet. > > I installed 2.1.6R and began to compile a custom kernel. At various > stages -- either during "make depend" or "make" -- the system simply > freezes. No errors on the console or in /var/log/messages. > > Is there a problem with this motherboard or with Natoma/440FX boards? There isn't any generic Natoma problem, I have one working the SMP kernel, it's running fine, and I've had it nearly non-stop compiling for days. You have to go looking for other causes (bad memory, disk, motherboard, whatever). I know, that's the last thing you wanted to hear ... ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 9120 Edmonston Ct #302 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic, both FreeBSD (301) 220-2114 | version 3.0 current -- and great FUN! ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 23:16:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA25172 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:16:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from diablo.ppp.de (diablo.ppp.de [193.141.101.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA25166 for ; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebie.lemis.de by diablo.ppp.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0vibCU-000QYRC; Fri, 10 Jan 97 08:16 MET Received: (grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id HAA25407; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:49:51 +0100 (MET) From: grog@lemis.de Message-Id: <199701100649.HAA25407@freebie.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970109183706.006936c4@pop.dial.pipex.com> from Simon Reading at "Jan 9, 97 06:58:04 pm" To: aat81@dial.pipex.com (Simon Reading) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:49:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hardware Users) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Simon Reading writes: > I'm considering 8mm exabyte as a (?more reliable) alternative to 4mm DAT. > > Would you recommend these drives? No. They're much more expensive, and my track record with them hasn't been brilliant either. I also don't like the way they fuss around when they're loading and unloading tapes. Greg From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 23:45:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA26935 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA26898; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id XAA17165; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15428; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:45:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701100745.XAA15428@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Chuck Robey cc: "Bradley C. Spatz" , questions@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Natoma PPRO freezes with 2.1.6R. In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 09 Jan 97 22:04:33 -0500. Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 23:45:23 -0800 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I just unpacked a SuperMicro P6DNF (Natoma, 440FX) with 1 PPRO 180Mhz >> CPU, 64M EDO RAM, 2940UW SCSI, SMC8432BTA ethernet. >> I installed 2.1.6R and began to compile a custom kernel. At various >> stages -- either during "make depend" or "make" -- the system simply >> freezes. No errors on the console or in /var/log/messages. >> Is there a problem with this motherboard or with Natoma/440FX boards? >There isn't any generic Natoma problem, I have one working the SMP kernel, >it's running fine, and I've had it nearly non-stop compiling for days. >You have to go looking for other causes (bad memory, disk, motherboard, >whatever). I know, that's the last thing you wanted to hear ... I have run NetBSD, and am running Windows NT, on a Natoma-based board (Asus P6NP5), with a 200MHz CPU. It has been running fine for months. However, prior to getting the Asus, I went through two SuperMicro P6DNF motherboards that were both defective. They would crash all over the place, and basically ate my NTFS drive, effectively destroying everything on it. I think SuperMicro quality control just sucks. I have heard stories from others, both who have had trouble, and who have had no problems at all. Try to get your motherboard replaced. If the replacement doesn't work, get an Asus or Tyan. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jan 9 23:59:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA28157 for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id XAA28152; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:59:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.4/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA05807; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:59:03 -0800 (PST) To: "Bradley C. Spatz" cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Natoma PPRO freezes with 2.1.6R. In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Jan 1997 21:25:23 EST." <199701100225.VAA20890@freenet1.afn.org> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 23:59:02 -0800 Message-ID: <5803.852883142@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Is there a problem with this motherboard or with Natoma/440FX boards? I suspect the former. I have an Intel Venus/440FX motherboard and it runs 2.1.6 like a champ. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jan 10 07:01:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA14346 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.116.240]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id HAA14341 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by Campino.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (RBI-Z-5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA09853 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:00:31 +0100 (MET) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.8.3/8.6.9) id PAA00250 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:58:25 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:58:25 +0100 (MET) From: Christoph Kukulies Message-Id: <199701101458.PAA00250@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: CDR burners - YAMAHE CDR100 (supported?) Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm about to buy a CD burner. Which one should I choose for running under FreeBSD? I'm tempted to buy a YAMAHA CDR 100 (4xr/4xw). Would I have a chance to get it running? --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jan 10 07:17:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA15116 for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:17:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george-2.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA15087; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.6.10/8.6.5) id HAA17363; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:17:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:17:12 -0800 From: "Jin Guojun[ITG]" Message-Id: <199701101517.HAA17363@george.lbl.gov> To: bcs@afn.org, chuckr@glue.umd.edu Subject: Re: Natoma PPRO freezes with 2.1.6R. Cc: hardware@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I just unpacked a SuperMicro P6DNF (Natoma, 440FX) with 1 PPRO 180Mhz >> CPU, 64M EDO RAM, 2940UW SCSI, SMC8432BTA ethernet. >> >> I installed 2.1.6R and began to compile a custom kernel. At various >> stages -- either during "make depend" or "make" -- the system simply >> freezes. No errors on the console or in /var/log/messages. >> >> Is there a problem with this motherboard or with Natoma/440FX boards? > >There isn't any generic Natoma problem, I have one working the SMP kernel, >it's running fine, and I've had it nearly non-stop compiling for days. >You have to go looking for other causes (bad memory, disk, motherboard, >whatever). I know, that's the last thing you wanted to hear ... Possibly, it is this kind of motherboard (typically, the 440FX chipset) problem. I have proved some of this kind of motherboards are defective. Most vendor will use DOS as their testing base, which will not find the problem. I made great effort to convince the motherboard is bad so that they replaced me another one and everything goes smoothly. So, you need to use same environment with any other Pentinum Pro motherboard to see if it works. If the result is yes, then the motherboard is bad. Otherwise, check the memory, and make sure it is 60 ns and the memory works under other environment (different FreeBSD version). Do not test things under DOS which will NOT use many functions in chipset. Good Luck! -Jin From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jan 11 09:26:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA24784 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:26:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from freeside.fc.net ([204.157.153.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA24779 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rider.fc.net (rider.fc.net [206.224.74.198]) by freeside.fc.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA03241; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:25:50 -0600 Received: from papillon.lemis.de ([192.109.197.159]) by rider.fc.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04950; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:27:46 -0600 (CST) From: Greg Lehey Received: (grog@localhost) by papillon.lemis.de (8.8.4/8.6.12) id NAA00357; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:34:22 -0600 (CST) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Message-Id: <199701101934.NAA00357@papillon.lemis.de> Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? In-Reply-To: <9700098528.AA852846957@ccgate.infoworld.com> from "BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com" at "Jan 9, 97 02:53:22 pm" To: BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:34:22 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hardware Users) Reply-to: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com writes: >> I'm considering 8mm exabyte as a (?more reliable) alternative to 4mm DAT. >> Would you recommend these drives? > >> Regards > >> Simon > > I sure would. They're slow at random access, and at loading and unloading > tapes, but streaming data transfer rates are high and they're tough as > nails. I don't see that they're any faster than modern DDS-2 drives. And I wish I could agree about reliability. But they have a slight advantage over DDS drives in terms of capacity (not surprising, considering the relative size of the cassette). > Spares are widely available, as are cleaning tapes and calibration > tools (which are similar to those for 8mm camcorders). You can even > use camcorder tapes in a pinch. (Your error rates will be higher, > but since the drive does a read-after-write it will catch errors on > the fly and write the data again during the same pass.) As a bitten child (I'm currently returning my repaired 8500 because it still didn't work right), I'm not convinced. Note also that I've been told by product experts that you should only use original Exabyte or Sony (same thing, different label) cleaning tapes. > Probably the best thing about these drives is that, since they've been > around for years, every OS and tape backup program known to Mankind has a > driver for them. At least Tandem supports only DDS drives. I'd guess that HP does the same :-) But why do you need a driver? On the systems I use, I can replace a DDS drive with a QIC-525 or an Exabyte, and I don't need to tell the software anything. > The model I own has one minor flaw: while it's executing certain SCSI > commands (such as "rewind") it just doesn't respond to additional ones. > Some tape software for DOS and Windows is confused by this > behavior. Does this worry you? You might check the Exabyte web pages, though--you can pick up firmware upgrades that might solve this problem. Greg From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jan 11 09:30:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA24983 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from bort.mv.net (uucp@bort.mv.net [192.80.84.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA24975 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (uucp@localhost) by bort.mv.net (8.8.3/mem-951016) id MAA15158 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:30:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rml@localhost) by midnight.mv.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA01503 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:51:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:51:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Roger M. Levasseur" Message-Id: <199701111651.LAA01503@midnight.mv.com> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm considering 8mm exabyte as a (?more reliable) alternative to 4mm DAT. > > Would you recommend these drives? I've been a lurker here for a few months now, but seeing the recent discussions about tape drives makes it time that I make a few comments. Most of my thoughts are a result of having once worked at a company that did backup and migration software for workstations: tape drives were never too far away. Would I recommend these drives? Only if you're prepared for the following. 8mm drives.... * Have alot of moving parts inside of them (the rotating head setup means quite a few parts compared to non-rotating head drives) * These drives _demand_ good care - cleaning is a MUST! Failure to clean after 10 to 20 uses is inviting problems. Failure to clean over the long term results in buildups on the heads that cleaning tapes just won't get at, and errors will accumulate and be problematic * Limited lifetime of tapes for usage. DON'T EVER think of using regular 8mm tapes - these will only accelerate buildup on the heads (see previous entry about cleaning). Only use DATA grade tapes. The difference shows up in the drive over the long term. * Long term storage of data on 8mm tapes - to insure a long archival of storage on 8mm will require you to at least put the tape in the drive and retension the tape every few months. If you are prepared to use and treat the drive as mentioned, ok, otherwise stay clear. When I got a tape drive for my home pc in 1994, I had considered 8mm, 4mm, and QIC. For reasons based on cost, reliability, and the above factors, I went with a QIC-525. The density doesn't compare, but I've had zero problems in 3 years of usage. I don't have enough experience to know if 4mm is better or worse than 8mm in terms of reliability. These days, if money wasn't an issue, I would pick DLT over 8mm. -roger From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jan 11 11:34:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA00697 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:34:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from persprog.com (persprog.com [204.215.255.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA00687 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by persprog.com (8.7.5/4.10) id OAA15555; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:29:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199701111929.OAA15555@persprog.com> Received: from dasa(192.2.2.199) by cerberus.ppi.com via smap (V1.3) id sma015553; Sat Jan 11 14:28:44 1997 Received: from DASA/SpoolDir by dasa.ppi.com (Mercury 1.21); 11 Jan 97 14:29:05 +0500 Received: from SpoolDir by DASA (Mercury 1.30); 11 Jan 97 14:28:49 +0500 From: "David Alderman" Organization: Personalized Programming, Inc To: "Roger M. Levasseur" , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:28:43 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199701111651.LAA01503@midnight.mv.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.50) Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 11 Jan 97 at 11:51, Roger M. Levasseur proclaimed: > > If you are prepared to use and treat the drive as mentioned, ok, otherwise > stay clear. When I got a tape drive for my home pc in 1994, I had > considered 8mm, 4mm, and QIC. For reasons based on cost, reliability, > and the above factors, I went with a QIC-525. The density doesn't compare, > but I've had zero problems in 3 years of usage. I don't have enough > experience to know if 4mm is better or worse than 8mm in terms of > reliability. These days, if money wasn't an issue, I would pick DLT > over 8mm. > Just look in any Server oriented magazine and look at the backup system advertisements. There are usually a few 8mm but usually over 80% of the ads are for DLT these days. Of course, be prepared to hand over the gold to get one. Unfortunately, some of us using tapes for some time now still remember the '8200 (cringe). DLT's have a even more shady past, but it's much farther in the past (TK50, anyone?). Please forgive my attempt at levity... ====================================== When philosophy conflicts with reality, choose reality. Dave Alderman -- dave@persprog.com ====================================== From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jan 11 16:56:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA21160 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:56:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA21151 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:56:30 -0800 (PST) From: BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com (ccgate.infoworld.com [192.216.49.101]) by lserver.infoworld.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/GNAC-GW-2.1) with SMTP id QAA06447; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by ccgate.infoworld.com (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA853030305; Sat, 11 Jan 97 17:12:08 PST Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 17:12:08 PST Message-Id: <9700118530.AA853030305@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As a bitten child (I'm currently returning my repaired 8500 because it > still didn't work right), I'm not convinced. Perhaps the person who repaired your drive did not do it properly. > Note also that I've been told by product experts that you should only use > original Exabyte or Sony (same thing, different label) cleaning tapes. As long as the cleaning cartridge has a ratchet to keep tape from being re-used, it'll work fine, regardless of brand. Of course, the "product experts" are a bit biased in favor of the ones they sell. > At least Tandem supports only DDS drives. I'd guess that HP does the > same :-) I used HP systems with Exabyte drives long before DDS. > But why do you need a driver? On the systems I use, I can > replace a DDS drive with a QIC-525 or an Exabyte, and I don't need to > tell the software anything. If you stick to the most generic SCSI tape commands, nearly anything will work. But if you want control of compression, etc., you want a driver that understands what can be done with the medium and the drive. This is true of DDS, too, if you want to use some of the niftier random-access features. > You might check the Exabyte web pages, though--you can pick up firmware > upgrades that might solve this problem. Will have to check on this. The older Exabytes used somewhat "dumb" SCSI chipsets, though (even now, there aren't many good ones available for targets). So it may not be possible to keep the drive from ignoring SCSI commands while it's working. --Brett From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jan 11 16:57:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA21248 for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:57:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA21242 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:57:51 -0800 (PST) From: BRETT_GLASS@infoworld.com Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com (ccgate.infoworld.com [192.216.49.101]) by lserver.infoworld.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/GNAC-GW-2.1) with SMTP id QAA06449; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by ccgate.infoworld.com (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA853030307; Sat, 11 Jan 97 17:19:59 PST Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 17:19:59 PST Message-Id: <9700118530.AA853030307@ccgate.infoworld.com> To: "David Alderman" , rml@midnight.mv.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recommend 8mm exabyte drives? Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just look in any Server oriented magazine and look at the backup > system advertisements. There are usually a few 8mm but usually over > 80% of the ads are for DLT these days. Of course, be prepared to > hand over the gold to get one. That's the odd thing about linear drives. They're a lot cheaper to make, but somehow seem to sell at higher prices. (This leaves lots of money for the ads.) --Brett