From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 00:28:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA09555 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09550; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-37kb9ah.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.165.81]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA11449; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 03:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970420072729.00975ec4@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 03:27:29 -0400 To: Alex Belits From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines Cc: Vinay Bannai , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:05 PM 4/19/97 -0700, Alex Belits wrote: >P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that >does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to >authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him >instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication >information from that server to always perform authentication locally and >never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login. This doesn't scale. Well, not really. At NCSU they use Hesiod+Kerberos to handle logins. This way they don't have to keep I don't know how many hundred or thousand machines /etc/passwd files current. Also, they don't have passwords going on the wire in the clear -- the passwords are handled in a safe manner by Kerberos. Along with this is the fact that passwords are *never* stored on client machines -- a security bonus. This is much saner than distributing /etc/passwd files everywhere, IMHO. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates: XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!" From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 00:52:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10205 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA10199; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02880; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:53:04 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: Vinay Bannai , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970420072729.00975ec4@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Kevin P. Neal wrote: > At 11:05 PM 4/19/97 -0700, Alex Belits wrote: > >P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that > >does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to > >authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him > >instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication > >information from that server to always perform authentication locally and > >never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login. > > This doesn't scale. > > Well, not really. Distribution of password files doesn't take the amount of resources any close to what remote authentication does, whatever is the scale. NIS does caching, but it's done in insecure manner. > At NCSU they use Hesiod+Kerberos to handle logins. This way they don't have > to keep I don't know how many hundred or thousand machines /etc/passwd files > current. > > Also, they don't have passwords going on the wire in the clear -- the passwords > are handled in a safe manner by Kerberos. ssh does that, and helps to avoid dreaded xhost, too -- for some reason I never was able to make users use xauth other way than sending something really awful to their X terminal, like large number of xeyes or blinking root window. > Along with this is the fact that > passwords are *never* stored on client machines -- a security bonus. > > This is much saner than distributing /etc/passwd files everywhere, IMHO. Having password file at the local box can't be a security problem -- the level of brokenness that is necessary to access shadow password file is as high as necessary to make kerberos useless, and if passwords are chosen in more or less sane manner ("fascist" password checker) even that isn't a direct security threat. Kerberos is vulnerable to denial of service attack or plain network problems, but distributing passwords can be only delayed by such things with no direct threat for already configured users. -- Alex From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 00:55:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA10361 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [199.201.191.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA10341; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net by mx.serv.net (8.7.5/SERV Revision: 2.30) id AAA07993; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA21517; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704200754.AAA21517@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: Alex Belits , Vinay Bannai , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 20 Apr 97 03:27:29 -0400. <1.5.4.32.19970420072729.00975ec4@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:54:39 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >At 11:05 PM 4/19/97 -0700, Alex Belits wrote: >>P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that >>does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to >>authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him >>instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication >>information from that server to always perform authentication locally and >>never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login. > >This doesn't scale. >Well, not really. It doesn't scale at all. >At NCSU they use Hesiod+Kerberos to handle logins. This way they don't have >to keep I don't know how many hundred or thousand machines /etc/passwd files >current. >Also, they don't have passwords going on the wire in the clear -- the passwords >are handled in a safe manner by Kerberos. Along with this is the fact that >passwords are *never* stored on client machines -- a security bonus. >This is much saner than distributing /etc/passwd files everywhere, IMHO. It's a proven model that works well. Iowa State was (is) doing the same thing. Over 20,000 user accounts. Trust me, you don't want a local passwd file with 20,000 users in it. (Actually, I believe they're over 30,000 now.) I'd hate to see a site with a couple hundred thousand accounts set up like that... Hesiod distributes this really nicely. And Kerberos is about as secure as Unix can get. Together, they work way better than NIS. Look for information on these, or Project Athena, for more info. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 01:31:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA11605 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 01:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA11600 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 01:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00507; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:17:27 +0800 (WST) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:17:26 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Ernie Elu cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: routed and small subnets In-Reply-To: <199704190722.RAA17902@spooky.eis.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Ernie Elu wrote: > I am trying to get routed to add routes for a couple of small subnets I have > hanging of ppp dialup modems. All systems are FreeBSD 2.2 > [snip] > > Is this the correct sort of thing to do with routed or is it best handled > some other way perhaps with static routes? > All my dialin clients are either shell or PPP, so I just stick subnet stuff in /etc/ppp/ip-up which is called everytime a PPP channel goes active. (man pppd and search for ip-up to get the parameters that the script is called with). Of course, this is on one dialup box, if I wanted a second one, things will start to get ... fun... Cya, -- Adrian Chadd | UNIX, MS-DOS and Windows ... | (also known as the Good, the bad and the | ugly..) From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 04:56:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA17356 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 04:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17351 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 04:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id HAA18599; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id HAA05476; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:55:56 -0400 (EDT) To: Glen Foster cc: sysop@mixcom.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:47:52 EDT." <199704191447.KAA08481@tbd.gfoster.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:55:56 -0400 Message-ID: <5474.861537356@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Glen Foster wrote in message ID <199704191447.KAA08481@tbd.gfoster.com>: > It would be enlightening to see a lawyer's considered opinion about > the defensibility of standard ISP practices in dealing with > questionable material. I suspect much would hinge on intent, if you > think porn is OK then you can expire it, if you think it is illegal > or potentially illegal then you can't. If someone believes that > criminal acts are occurring then it is their responsibility to > report them to the authorities. AFAIK, the only `illegal' porn is the pedophillia stuff, and if you rmgroup those, then you're pretty safe last I heard (considering some friends of mine are going through this right now after a local police dept asked them to delete groups whose sole purpose was to break the law (in the US, mere possession of pedophillic material is a felony) Of course, the users went up in arms that this happened, which makes me wonder if they shouldn't give names and addresses of complainers to the local police to raid on suspicion of posession of illegal material :-/ Of course, this leads to an interesting situation. ISP's are not law enforcement. However, to comply with the law, they have to remove these groups. This can be classed as censorship (or a lot of lusers are trying to claim that, I've been following it with growing dismay in their local groups ... it makes me wonder what class of total scum is getting on the net these days), which of course is a violation of the First Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. Of course, what really has people pissed off is that the police department took the action of requesting they delete the groups AFTER a certain pro-CDA style group wrote both the ISP and the local police a letter (basically) accusing the ISP of violating the law (which, in all truth, they probably were). For an example of the sort of letter that was received, and more information on the `pro-reform' group, go to http://www.ocaf.org/, and specifically http://www.ocaf.org/oc03001.html They are actively encouraging people to act against any (quote) ``ISP Is Distributing Obscenity and Child Pornography'' (endquote). While I am not against this, IMHO it's best left to the officers of the law to take action rather than pressure groups. > Please don't read this as me trying to be alarmist. I doubt that > there is any real threat unless "the authorities" have some other > reason to target a particular ISP. However, it is not unknown for > them to use every weapon at their disposal for the purpose of > coercion or prosecution. They do have reasons to target ISP's. Pressure groups. Which makes me wonder what is next. Blocking realaudio streams incase they carry material (i.e. songs) which have (alledgedly) caused suicides? Sigh. Whatever happened to the land of freedom? Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 05:00:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA17673 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 05:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17664 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 05:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id HAA18681; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id HAA05505; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:57:11 -0400 (EDT) To: "Jay D. Nelson" cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Liability (was: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...)) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:02:31 CDT." Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 07:57:11 -0400 Message-ID: <5503.861537431@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk "Jay D. Nelson" wrote in message ID : > Along with news, what about my encrypted mail. Is an ISP a potential > federal target if a user's encrypted mail is suspected of "terrorist" > communication? What is an ISP's liability if they filter out encrypted > mail? They can, and should, claim common carrier status. Just like the phone company is not liable if you send a code which triggers a bomb using a phone line. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 09:19:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28579 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28567; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA06451; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:19:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA14535; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:14:17 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 09:14:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Alex Belits wrote: > P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that > does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to > authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him > instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication > information from that server to always perform authentication locally and > never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login. RADIUS is used by terminal servers to authenticate users by "going to some server and asking him" and you can have a backup RADIUS server in case the primary one goes down. I think ISP's would find it easier to manage a site using RADIUS for all authentication, not just terminal servers. But more importantly, I think that systems need to have a hook in the authentication procedure so that the sysadmin can install their own allow/deny code so that certain servers can still authenticate via RADIUS but only certain users or only at certain times of day or only logins from the console or from certain IP addresses. In general, OSes with source are easy to fit into this kind of a scenario but other ones (Solaris, SCO, IRIX, NT) are not. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 10:23:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02049 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02044 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07469 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:23:18 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA15018 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:18:22 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:18:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-Reply-To: <5474.861537356@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > AFAIK, the only `illegal' porn is the pedophillia stuff, and if you > rmgroup those, then you're pretty safe last I heard (considering some > friends of mine are going through this right now after a local police > dept asked them to delete groups whose sole purpose was to break the > law (in the US, mere possession of pedophillic material is a felony) Just wait until the local police learn how USENET really works and that newsgroups are not the little boxes they think they are. Then it will no longer be enough to rmgroup some newsgroup titles. > Of course, this leads to an interesting situation. ISP's are not law > enforcement. However, to comply with the law, they have to remove > these groups. This can be classed as censorship (or a lot of lusers > are trying to claim that, I've been following it with growing dismay > in their local groups ... it makes me wonder what class of total scum > is getting on the net these days), which of course is a violation of > the First Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States of > America. You're quite wrong about the 1st. Have you read it? It begins "Congress shall make no law..." and the courts have held that the term "Congress" includes other bodies that get their authority from Congress such as state governments and various government agencies. Basically it boils down to a ban on government actions that might prevent free speech however it does not apply at all to private individuals. If a newspaper doesn't want to print your letter, too bad, go start your own. And if an ISP doesn't want to allow you to publish and/or read something then that's tough luck for you, the ISP doesn't have to do anything with their private resources that they don't want to. > Of course, what really has people pissed off is that the police > department took the action of requesting they delete the groups AFTER > a certain pro-CDA style group wrote both the ISP and the local police > a letter (basically) accusing the ISP of violating the law (which, in > all truth, they probably were). For an example of the sort of letter > that was received, and more information on the `pro-reform' group, go > to http://www.ocaf.org/, and specifically > http://www.ocaf.org/oc03001.html They are actively encouraging people > to act against any (quote) ``ISP Is Distributing Obscenity and Child > Pornography'' (endquote). While I am not against this, IMHO it's best > left to the officers of the law to take action rather than pressure > groups. OCAF has been operating a concerted campaign for over a year now to "educate" locval police departments about ISP's and the porn laws. Their intention is to force ISP's to remove the porn or get the police to lay charges. They are quite serious and there are some ISP's for whom it is probably too late already because the investigations are under way and the evidence has been gathered. > Which makes me wonder what is next. Blocking realaudio streams incase > they carry material (i.e. songs) which have (alledgedly) caused > suicides? Sigh. Whatever happened to the land of freedom? Realaudio streams are not *STORED* on ISP servers like newsgroups are. When the ISP's service looks like a communications medium, i.e. the data is just passing through except for some buffering and caching that is neccessary to the proper operation of the service, then the ISP is clearly off the hook. This even includes running a Squid proxy cache because the info in the cache is not accessible to customers directly. They can only get info from the cahe if they request a web page and the page happens to already be in the cache because of another customer's request. But USENET is not caching. The messages are copied to the ISP's server. The customer then browses through the selection on the ISP's server and downloads the messages from the server. This is virtually identical to downloading a file from a local BBS and there are several cases where a BBS sysop has been convicted even though they had not put the illegal files there themselves. So, given that there is a need to get illegal stuff off USENET servers and given that USENET posters can easily circumvent a rmgroup by crossposting to other bogus groups, what can an ISP do? IMHO, the solution is to zap all binaries. And sooner or later someone will start a binaries cancellation service like ARRM or Cancelmoose that will auto-cancel ALL binaries and the ISP simply needs to accept those cancels and the job is done. And universities that think they are immune from the law can simply alias out the cancellation service and all is well. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 11:25:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04418 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04412 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA05629; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA12047; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:24:06 -0400 (EDT) To: Damian Hamill cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:50:34 BST." <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:24:06 -0400 Message-ID: <12044.861560646@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Damian Hamill wrote in message ID <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net>: > One of the principle costs in running an ISP is the cost of bandwidth. > Usenet is a big hit on bandwidth, the cost of which is disproportionate > to the revenue generated from those that actually use it. Anything > which can reduce this major cost centre will be beneficial to ALL ISPs, > regardless of size. Actually, the bigger the ISP, the smaller the hit (at least on external b/w ... internal b/w is another matter). I doubt Erols, even though they are #1 on FreeNIX, even notice the impact of news on their outbound DS3's, after 20,000 dialins have eaten their chunk. > There just isn't enough bandwidth... ever... A truer word has never been spoken. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 11:31:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04771 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA04766 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id NAA22378; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:33:15 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022362; Sun Apr 20 18:33:04 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970420132212.00bd49ec@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:22:12 -0500 To: Damian Hamill From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: News... Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:03 PM 4/19/97 +0100, Damian Hamill wrote: >There will soon be a very cost effective satellite news feed available >in Europe. I understand the pricing might be something like $2000-$3000 >US setup fee and $15 per year subscription (yes I said fifteen dollars >per year). I understand that bandwidth is unlimited and the full news >feed will be delivered. But do they call the setup fee the "launch" fee? ;-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 11:35:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA05065 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05048 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA07140; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA14851; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:34:24 -0400 (EDT) To: Eddie Fry cc: Blaine Minazzi , isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: News... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:08:21 PDT." <3357FEE5.4DBB@eaznet.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:34:23 -0400 Message-ID: <14848.861561263@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eddie Fry wrote in message ID <3357FEE5.4DBB@eaznet.com>: > I am in TOTAL agreement. I don't think anyone's going to lose customers > because they don't keep this junk on a local drive. If anything, change > your focus from "WE GIVE YOU EVERYTHING A SMUT-LOVER WOULD WANT" to "WE > GIVE YOU FASTER ACCESS AND DOWNLOAD SPEEDS" because we don't jam our > lines with smut. Sorry, you lose. I know from experience :-( Customers have left webspan (the ISP I currently work for) because I had troubles with hard drive reliability in the early days and they went elsewhere to get their porn. And they were porn suckers, believe me. ALL the people who phoned to complain about the server being down, when cornered by tech. support, admitted that they were after a.b.p.e, even one who started out saying ``When is the news server gonna be back, my business depends on it!''. He never posted a thing, he just read. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 12:17:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07218 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07207; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4) id PAA20332; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 15:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 15:17:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Henrich Message-Id: <199704201917.PAA20332@crh.cl.msu.edu> To: gpalmer@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.isp References: <5jdpms$dar$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #1 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In lists.freebsd.isp you write: >Eddie Fry wrote in message ID ><3357FEE5.4DBB@eaznet.com>: >> I am in TOTAL agreement. I don't think anyone's going to lose customers >> because they don't keep this junk on a local drive. If anything, change >> your focus from "WE GIVE YOU EVERYTHING A SMUT-LOVER WOULD WANT" to "WE >> GIVE YOU FASTER ACCESS AND DOWNLOAD SPEEDS" because we don't jam our >> lines with smut. >Sorry, you lose. I know from experience :-( Customers have left >webspan (the ISP I currently work for) because I had troubles with >hard drive reliability in the early days and they went elsewhere to >get their porn. And they were porn suckers, believe me. ALL the people >who phoned to complain about the server being down, when cornered by >tech. support, admitted that they were after a.b.p.e, even one who >started out saying ``When is the news server gonna be back, my >business depends on it!''. He never posted a thing, he just read. Hell, a very large percentage of ISP customers are using it for pornography. Sex sells, always has, always will. The news statistics SHOW it, what, in the top 100 read newsgroups 90% are alt.binaries.* related. If you dont carry those groups, you lose/dont get customers, period. -Crh -- Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 12:22:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07801 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA07796; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA08341; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:20:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199704201920.MAA08341@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines To: vinay@agni.nuko.com (Vinay Bannai) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:20:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704200512.WAA16052@agni.nuko.com> from "Vinay Bannai" at Apr 19, 97 10:12:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I need a common passwd file that is shared by a FreeBSD machine, Linux > machine, Solaris and a SunOS machine. I do not want to use NIS. Er, how about "YP". 8-) 8-). Alternately, you could download the LDAP or X.500 stuff, and hope it's not too green to work. 8-(. > I thought of using rdist to distribute the passwd file among all these > machines but could not because some of them use shadow passwd files and > others don't. Also, I am not sure the passwd encryption is the same on all > these platforms. If the password encryption is not the same on all the platforms, you can replace the authentication mechanism. A good place to look to check this (assuming X runs on all the platforms) is in the xdm sources form ftp.x.org. It will list and categorize the machine differences. Most likely, if you install the DES packages for the various platforms, they will all be using DES. Note that rdist will stomp password changes from the central server, so unless your users log into the central server (and potentially end up sending passwords in clear-text to the password change command on the server), the password changes will not "stick". This can be a real pain with an rdist-like system. > More generally, the reason I am using this approach is to make the > developement of code easier by using cvs. I have one machine exporting the > cvs source tree and others mount it. To keep the same uids, I need to > share the passwd files. Does anyone have a better suggestions? If you are in a zone where you are trusting NFS mounts, then you are in a zone where you can probably trust NIS. In either case, you will need a common authentication algorithm between all the machines, and that will probably be DES, if any of the machines are commercial platforms. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 12:28:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA08159 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@usr1-dialup49.Denver.mci.net [204.189.201.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08150; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03291; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:37:32 -0600 Message-ID: <335A707B.10588A66@denverweb.net> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:37:31 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Palmer CC: Eddie Fry , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <14848.861561263@orion.webspan.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Palmer wrote: > > Sorry, you lose. I know from experience :-( Customers have left > webspan (the ISP I currently work for) because I had troubles with > hard drive reliability in the early days and they went elsewhere to > get their porn. And they were porn suckers, believe me. ALL the people > who phoned to complain about the server being down, when cornered by > tech. support, admitted that they were after a.b.p.e, even one who > started out saying ``When is the news server gonna be back, my > business depends on it!''. He never posted a thing, he just read. > So, what percentage of customers did you loose? And, of those that left, how many went elsewhere because they couldn't get their rocks off, and how many left because they simply wanted a more reliable ISP? Doing some user logging, info gathering, just to get some numbers should not be all the difficult. Would be good to see what percentage of a typical ISP's news customers are spending what percentage of their time on the which groups. Then, you can assign a dollar value to it, and weigh that against the cost of defending yourself from prosecution, etc.You could also mesure the total bandwidth that those customers use, and weigh that against the other users. Of course a certain percentage of your business is going to be made up of people who want the porn. They have a dollar value. ( asset. ) Providing those newsgroups has a certain risk. ( liability. ) Also, don't forget the bandwidth and equipment cost increases. If all you are concerned about is PURE PROFIT, why not just deal drugs? Both Illegal porn and drugs can get you a room with striped sunlite, if you get caught. Most of the ISP's that have the alt.sex.teen.binaries type of groups on their servers ARE commiting a felony. They just have not been caught and prosecuted yet. One could cater to that segment of society, if they choose, and show a good profit, but with a considerable increase in risk of prosecution. Some of us choose to not be purveyors of those types of materials. In return, I get quite a few comments from people who appreciate the fact that I do not host any "adult" sites, and that was the reason they chose me as their provider. I know that I have had far more compliments on my desision to not host those sites than people who wrote and complained about the policy. I imagine that is becuase the others just go elsewhere quietly... So, both sides have positives and negatives. Me: I sleep well at night, and I don't have to worry about the police, or the neighbors thinking I am some sort of smut shop operator. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 12:29:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA08177 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA08171; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA08355; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:26:06 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199704201926.MAA08355@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:26:06 -0700 (MST) Cc: vinay@agni.nuko.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex Belits" at Apr 19, 97 11:05:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that > does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to > authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him > instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication > information from that server to always perform authentication locally and > never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login. This is the design error of the X.500, NDS, and NT models for having credentials apply to the net instead of individual machines: How do I force synchronization with someone's desktop box if they turn it off and go home? This is the same for all push-model authentication distribution services: it has a hard time working in the real world, and depends on silly ideas like "skulking" processes to push the data when they can. Meanwhile, between "skulks", the replicating tree has invalid information, and may win the "master election" for a client, and authenticate client credentials which are, in fact, "stale", and there;'s no way to stop it from happening. This is, IMO, a much bigger security hole than those cause by NIS (assuming you don't misconfigure NIS and/or don't firewall the NIS ports to the net). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 12:52:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09776 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09746; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA08423; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:49:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199704201949.MAA08423@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines To: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 12:49:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us, vinay@agni.nuko.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970420072729.00975ec4@mindspring.com> from "Kevin P. Neal" at Apr 20, 97 03:27:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At NCSU they use Hesiod+Kerberos to handle logins. This way they don't have > to keep I don't know how many hundred or thousand machines /etc/passwd files > current. > > Also, they don't have passwords going on the wire in the clear -- the > passwords are handled in a safe manner by Kerberos. Along with this is > the fact that passwords are *never* stored on client machines -- a > security bonus. > > This is much saner than distributing /etc/passwd files everywhere, IMHO. I didn't mention Hesiod because I didn't know if it was supported on all the plaforms he has (some of them must be old if they do not have shadowing). I also didn't mention Hesiod because it's a *huge* step to take. Finally, he's already in a "vouchsafe" environment because of the NFS credentials ...unless they are using Kerberos tickets for the NFS as well, and that's even *less* likely to be able to be universally supported. I can replace user space authentication mechanisms with a lot of pain, but replacing kernel proxy authentication for a system (and probably replacing their NFS as well) is a step I wouldn't tell anyone to take. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 13:10:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11096 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11063; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA03791; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970420161451.00a0ed70@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:14:51 -0400 To: Charles Henrich , gpalmer@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <199704201917.PAA20332@crh.cl.msu.edu> References: <5jdpms$dar$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Hell, a very large percentage of ISP customers are using it for pornography. >Sex sells, always has, always will. The news statistics SHOW it, what, in the >top 100 read newsgroups 90% are alt.binaries.* related. If you dont carry >those groups, you lose/dont get customers, period. For better or for worse, I agree with the above observation... Sex sells.. Sometimes when people ask me what I do for a living, sometimes I feel like smirking, "a purveyor or pornography"... In our neck of the woods, I asked a few of our competitors what their news reader's habits were like, and it generally jived with what we see... Out of the top 100 newsgroups accessed on our system, 5 were non sex/porn/erotica (however, you want to classify it) related. Now, whether or not, its a small group of people hitting the news server hard, or a wide cross section of our customer base, is hard to know. I have never bothered to take the time to analyze it like that... But as someone else posted, if the news server goes down, the phone starts a ringin faster than a UPS can cutover! ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 13:12:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA11337 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kirk.edmweb.com (kirk.edmweb.com [204.244.190.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11323 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bluesmoke.edmweb.com (steve@bluesmoke.edmweb.com [204.244.190.8]) by kirk.edmweb.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA23909; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704202011.NAA23909@kirk.edmweb.com> To: Michael Dillon cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 20 Apr 1997 10:18:21 PDT." Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:10:55 -0700 From: Steve Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So, given that there is a need to get illegal stuff off USENET > servers and given that USENET posters can easily circumvent a rmgroup > by crossposting to other bogus groups, what can an ISP do? IMHO, the > solution is to zap all binaries. Here in Canada, and in many other countries, _text descriptions_ of obscene acts are covered by obscenity laws. It doesn't matter if the action depicted is real or just the product of a twisted imagination. I understand the United States has recently passed a similar law. Also, here in Canada, people have been charged with _making_ child porn, just because computers by their very nature make copies of data. IANAL, but I don't think zapping binaries in newsgroups provides a great deal of legal protection. You have to deal with newsgroups, email, Squid cache, etc... From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 13:49:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA15764 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA15759; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-37kbte1.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.245.193]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04064; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970420204545.008f9a20@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:45:45 -0400 To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines Cc: Alex Belits , Vinay Bannai , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:54 AM 4/20/97 -0700, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: >>At NCSU they use Hesiod+Kerberos to handle logins. This way they don't have >>to keep I don't know how many hundred or thousand machines /etc/passwd files >>current. >>Also, they don't have passwords going on the wire in the clear -- the passwords >>are handled in a safe manner by Kerberos. Along with this is the fact that >>passwords are *never* stored on client machines -- a security bonus. >>This is much saner than distributing /etc/passwd files everywhere, IMHO. > >It's a proven model that works well. Iowa State was (is) doing the >same thing. Over 20,000 user accounts. Trust me, you don't want a >local passwd file with 20,000 users in it. (Actually, I believe >they're over 30,000 now.) I'd hate to see a site with a couple >hundred thousand accounts set up like that... > >Hesiod distributes this really nicely. And Kerberos is about as >secure as Unix can get. Together, they work way better than NIS. >Look for information on these, or Project Athena, for more info. Yup. I don't know how many active accounts there are at NCSU, but there are over 50,000 user home directories, spread across two AFS cells. Every student in the university has an account. I'm told that people from MIT have actually come down, looked at NCSU's system, and commented on how it's better than MIT's. (could just be folklore) But yes, NCSU's system was modeled after Project Athena. The original name of NCSU's system was "Project Eos". I would hate to see 50,000 line long /etc/passwd files copied everywhere. Plus, it was kinda funny watching a friend of mine looking up the name of his pop server -- via the host command. -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Junior, Comp. Sci. - House of Retrocomputing XCOMM mailto:kpneal@pobox.com - http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ XCOMM kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu Spoken by Keir Finlow-Bates: XCOMM "Good grief, I've just noticed I've typed in a rant. Sorry chaps!" From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 14:02:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16487 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA16482 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA11449 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:02:21 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA16777 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:57:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:57:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <14848.861561263@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > Sorry, you lose. I know from experience :-( Customers have left > webspan (the ISP I currently work for) because I had troubles with > hard drive reliability in the early days and they went elsewhere to > get their porn. And they were porn suckers, believe me. ALL the people > who phoned to complain about the server being down, when cornered by > tech. support, admitted that they were after a.b.p.e, even one who > started out saying ``When is the news server gonna be back, my > business depends on it!''. He never posted a thing, he just read. Some ISP's would be glad to lose this sort of customer because they are usually also the kind that suck up tech support resources, are late paying bills and complain about your service to their friends. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 14:09:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA16962 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA16951 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA11584 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:09:34 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16836 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:04:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) In-Reply-To: <199704202011.NAA23909@kirk.edmweb.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Steve wrote: > IANAL, but I don't think zapping binaries in newsgroups provides a > great deal of legal protection. You have to deal with newsgroups, > email, Squid cache, etc... Email is already protected legally. In the USA there is a specific law, the ECPA that protects the privacy of email and requires the ISP to deliver it without looking at it. In Canada, the government recently confirmed that the regular laws apply to the Internet and special legislation is not needed. This would mean that ISP's fall under the same rules as the postal service, i.e. we cannot look at email contents and must deliver it to the customer. Only a court order can change that and ISP's like the post office, are not liable for content. Stuff in a Squid proxy cache is the same as stuff that is in transit and may be buffered in any number of places. The Squid cache is just a buffer and neither the ISP nor the user can detect when a page comes from the cache and when it is retrieved directly from a web server. But USENET is very different, and IMHO it makes the ISP very vulnerable. Now that OCAF is educating the police about how things really work, USENET is becoming a dangerous thing to have on your servers. However, if you remove all binaries no matter where they are posted, then you stand a much better chance in front of the law, IMHO. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 14:13:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17212 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA17202 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA11651 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:13:10 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16867 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:08:15 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <199704201917.PAA20332@crh.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Charles Henrich wrote: > Hell, a very large percentage of ISP customers are using it for pornography. > Sex sells, always has, always will. The news statistics SHOW it, what, in the > top 100 read newsgroups 90% are alt.binaries.* related. If you dont carry > those groups, you lose/dont get customers, period. But the percentage of customers who look at USENET is small and dropping. And if you don't clean up illegal material from your newsservers, OCAF and others are planning to put you in jail. Would you rather lose 10% of your customers or would you rather lose your freedom *AND* your business? Your choice. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 14:54:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA19833 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19824 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA15454; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970420175921.00af2220@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:59:21 -0400 To: Michael Dillon , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: References: <199704201917.PAA20332@crh.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >But the percentage of customers who look at USENET is small and dropping. Not on our system... At peak times, we have about 25% of our customers who are currently online reading news. To me thats a pretty significant portion... ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 16:36:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27257 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27251; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA08144; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:38:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:38:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Terry Lambert cc: vinay@agni.nuko.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: <199704201926.MAA08355@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Terry Lambert wrote: > > P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that > > does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to > > authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him > > instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication > > information from that server to always perform authentication locally and > > never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login. > > This is the design error of the X.500, NDS, and NT models for > having credentials apply to the net instead of individual machines: You mean, all machines on the network use the same set of users? That will be bad, but such system can be designed to support individual setup for machines, groups of them and/or supporting additional authentication information stored locally that will be added after receiving files. Secondary servers that may also handle some local for their clients lists can be useful, too. Model with ftp/scp+scripts that I've mentioned is too primirive to do that, but this is why I've asked about "pushing" model implemented better, so it can unclude that functionality. > How do I force synchronization with someone's desktop box if they > turn it off and go home? When box is turned off it definitely doesn't need any authentication information at all -- no one can login there anyway. When such box boots it can ask server, and server will update authentication information if it was changed (similar to what happens when secondary nameserver is started) before any user will have chance to log in -- still less overhead than to ask server every time. > This is the same for all push-model authentication distribution > services: it has a hard time working in the real world, and depends > on silly ideas like "skulking" processes to push the data when they > can. > > Meanwhile, between "skulks", the replicating tree has invalid > information, and may win the "master election" for a client, and > authenticate client credentials which are, in fact, "stale", and > there;'s no way to stop it from happening. The idea is that server updates authentication data on clients whenever it's changed, not client asks server about that (except when booting). So the delay between data being changed on the server and being received on some client will be almost as short as it takes to do remote authentication procedure from that client (depends on network bandwidth, server resources, etc). -- Alex From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 16:52:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27885 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27876 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA16863; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:51:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Mike Tancsa cc: Michael Dillon , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970420175921.00af2220@sentex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Mike Tancsa wrote: > >But the percentage of customers who look at USENET is small and dropping. > > Not on our system... At peak times, we have about 25% of our customers who > are currently online reading news. To me thats a pretty significant > portion... When we started, if news was down, 3/4ths of the lines would go empty. Now when news is down, about 5 guys notice. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 17:49:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA01465 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01460 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA02465; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:34:47 +0800 (WST) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:34:46 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Steve cc: Mike Tancsa , Michael Dillon , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > >But the percentage of customers who look at USENET is small and dropping. > > > > Not on our system... At peak times, we have about 25% of our customers who > > are currently online reading news. To me thats a pretty significant > > portion... *WHAT* are they reading though? Thats the problem. > > When we started, if news was down, 3/4ths of the lines would go empty. > Now when news is down, about 5 guys notice. News over here (well at least with my ISP) is pretty popular.. however I'm scared to ask my news provider exactly WHAT our clients are pulling. :) Its kinda the same as shell access - we have about 5 or 6 shell users, and a shell box serial limited to 38400. They *STILL* managed to pull down about 3000-3500$ a month in IP traffic outside our "free traffic zone". When the shell box HDD "failed", our link utilization went WAY down. Someone should grab most-read-group stats from the news logs and post them here, out of interest. (Now the shell box is at 19200, I really want to drop it :) I honestly don't care what access we give our clients, as long as : a) Its not illegal *AT ALL*, or at least we can not be held responsible in any way for that. b) The costs of running it are paid for by the clients. Again, (a) is pretty easily understood, (b) however is tricky - here its the "90% of the clients subsidise 10% of the clients". And although I can't really stop that, I want to try to minimalise it. Adrian From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 18:02:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02262 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phil.digitaladvantage.net (phil.digitaladvantage.net [207.40.157.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02255 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pamela.digitaladvantage.net (pamela.digitaladvantage.net [208.18.129.16]) by phil.digitaladvantage.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA19278 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:57:27 -0500 (CDT) From: rpanula@dacmail.net (Russ Panula) To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: News... Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:11:33 -0600 Organization: Digital Advantage Corporation Reply-To: rpanula@dacmail.net Message-ID: <335cca3b.1943939@mail.digitaladvantage.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99f/32.299 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by freefall.freebsd.org id SAA02257 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here's some thoughts: What purpose does USENET serve? Be as specific as you can. And then answer this question: If all of USENET is content regulated, is the purpose still the same? If not, how has it changed? From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 18:21:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA03599 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agni.nuko.com ([207.82.229.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03594; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vinay@localhost) by agni.nuko.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA18837; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:20:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Vinay Bannai Message-Id: <199704210120.SAA18837@agni.nuko.com> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines To: denis@satty.npi.msu.su (Denis Kalinin) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hacker@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Denis Kalinin" at Apr 20, 97 11:15:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for several suggestions. Lots of cool ideas flying around. That is what I was afraid of. I wanted to make this task as simple as possible. Let's say I have scaled down my expectations and just would be content with having uid/gid consistency over all machines. (Since my cvs tree was exported and people could edit it on their machines, I saw a different user name/group when I looked at the files from my own machine because of the uid/gid mismatch). Considering all this, I am leaning towards NIS. As Terry mentioned in his e-mail, if I consider the network safe enough to do NFS exports, it should be safe enough for NIS. :-( BTW, at Stanford they use AFS systems with Kereberos for authentication. The number of accounts (my guess) would be around 25,000-35,000 accounts. The users are dispersed in differenet AFS cells based on their usernames. The mail being handled by several POP servers. The mail agents on all the machines were modified to use POP3 protocol to retreive the mail from the mail servers. Vinay -- Vinay Bannai E-mail: vinay@agni.nuko.com (408)-526-0280 x 275 (Work) http://agni.nuko.com/~vinay From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 18:30:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04166 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04157 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (mike@gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA00351; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970420213538.009d6310@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:35:38 -0400 To: Adrian Chadd From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 08:34 AM 4/21/97 +0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> >> > >But the percentage of customers who look at USENET is small and dropping. >> > >> > Not on our system... At peak times, we have about 25% of our customers who >> > are currently online reading news. To me thats a pretty significant >> > portion... > >*WHAT* are they reading though? >Thats the problem. Its not my problem... They can read whatever they want as far as I am concerned... If its someone in authority demonstrates to me a particular post is illegal and should be removed, I will... >> >> When we started, if news was down, 3/4ths of the lines would go empty. >> Now when news is down, about 5 guys notice. > >News over here (well at least with my ISP) is pretty popular.. >however I'm scared to ask my news provider exactly WHAT our clients are >pulling. :) >Someone should grab most-read-group stats from the news logs and post them >here, out of interest. 95% porn/erotica/nudeies (whatever you want to call it)... I personally find a lot of it objectionable, and some of it should be out right deleted... But I dont have the financial resources to go through it all... >I honestly don't care what access we give our clients, as long as : > >a) Its not illegal *AT ALL*, or at least we can not be held responsible > in any way for that. Yes, agreed >b) The costs of running it are paid for by the clients. You are always going to have people who get more than they pay for. The trick is to offset it with those who under use it, and minimize the abusers... I am always amazed at the variety of customers we have. Some, will struggle with a problem for days to the point of suicide, and then they will break down and call us for help... Even apologizing that they are 'bugging' us. Where as others, will call at the drop of a pin with whatever problems they have. The topper was someone who actually brought in their PRINTER, telling us we somehow broke it after they were using Netscape to print out something! >Again, (a) is pretty easily understood, (b) however is tricky - here its >the "90% of the clients subsidise 10% of the clients". And although I >can't really stop that, I want to try to minimalise it. Yes, ideally for sure. ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 18:34:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04385 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.island.net.au (mail.island.net.au [203.102.137.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04380 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scotland.island.net.au (scotland.island.net.au [203.102.137.2]) by mail.island.net.au (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA22874 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:33:18 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970421113455.006b27ec@mail.island.net.au> X-Sender: hugh@mail.island.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:34:55 +1000 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Hugh Blandford Subject: Help with Xylogics RA4000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is a little off topic but I'm sure that there is someone out there who could be a bit more helpful than Bay are being. I am running Release 13.3 with rack mounting modems that do not provide DSR. With control_lines set to modem control and need_dsr set to either Y\N the annex is still expecting DSR to be active. When this is forced manually (hardwired on the telco connector) the annex behaves as expected. Basically this appears to be a problem with this release of the software as version 9.2.7 works as published. Does anybody have any suggestions rather than rewiring all the connectors or buying a Livingston Portmaster? :-) Regards, Hugh. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 18:58:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA05563 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from packfish.gateway.net.hk (john@packfish.gateway.net.hk [202.76.19.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05554 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 18:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from john@localhost) by packfish.gateway.net.hk (8.8.3/8.7.3) id KAA08801; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:05:30 +0800 (HKT) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:05:29 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Blaine Minazzi cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: News... In-Reply-To: <3357A50E.3BE60349@denverweb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Blaine Minazzi wrote: > David Greenman wrote: > > > do. If you chose to chop out 90% of the Usenet content with full knowledge > > that you will lose customers and make less money, than that's just being a > > morality Czar and has nothing to do with the economics. > > > > -DG > > > > David Greenman > > Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > What does morality have to do with not pissing away bandwidth? > > So... leave the porn in, and risk a lawsuit. take it out and risk a > lawsuit. > Screw it, go with the low bandwidth solution. > Carrying some of the porn as a news group on a local server exposes ISP's to more than a lawsuit in many jurisdictions -- they can be treated as a pornographer and subject to criminal penalties. The authorties can also go after directors and managers. Not a very nice thing to have on your record. On the other hand it seems difficult for an ISP to be charged because a customer used his ppp connection to download the stuff unless it were offering anonymous ftp or large web sites to redistribute it. Since it is a hugh waste of bandwidth used by few customers, one solution might be for some well connected ISP's who feel they are immune from criminal charges and law suits in their jurisdiction to offer proxie connections to other ISP's on a metered basis. The cost would most likely be less than the bandwidth and all those gigabytes whorling and it could be built into the charges to those who use it. It is absurb to believe, as many do, that the laws against pornography and racial hatred etc. which apply to printed material in a given jurisdiction somehow do not apply to the same material stored on a server located in the same jurisdiction. Witness Compuserve Germany's recent problem. There have also been arrests in Hong Kong recently for child pornography. John Beukema > If the porn REALLY is 90% of usenet content, then we certainly need to > fix it. > > I don't buy the fact that our incomes would suffer greatly by simple > having the customer > fetch the stuff from smut_r_us.com rather than us having to store > hundreds of megs of > this shit on our servers, just so someone can get their rocks off. If I > want to make money > in that arena, I would open a strip club or adult bookstore. > > It is still available, we just dont shuffle a gazzillion megs of the > shit around daily. > Since most of it is the same "back issues" and same old files, it's > REALLY a bandwidth pisser. > > Economics is simple. You make the choices YOU think are most benificial > to the company. > You live with the results. > > Blaine > From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 19:23:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA07231 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07209; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id LAA06517; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:52:51 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704210222.LAA06517@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: from Michael Dillon at "Apr 20, 97 09:14:15 am" To: michael@memra.com (Michael Dillon) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:52:51 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon stands accused of saying: > > RADIUS is used by terminal servers to authenticate users by "going to some > server and asking him" and you can have a backup RADIUS server in case the > primary one goes down. I think ISP's would find it easier to manage a site > using RADIUS for all authentication, not just terminal servers. Unfortunately, Livingston have put some anal restrictions on their latest RADIUS server code. > But more importantly, I think that systems need to have a hook in the > authentication procedure so that the sysadmin can install their own > allow/deny code so that certain servers can still authenticate via RADIUS > but only certain users or only at certain times of day or only logins from > the console or from certain IP addresses. This is one of the goals of the PAM framework. I hope to have some time next week to get myself back up to date with PAM and update my BSD port of it. Once I have it building and linkable, it will be time to start discussing how to integrate it. 8) > In general, OSes with source are easy to fit into this kind of a scenario > but other ones (Solaris, SCO, IRIX, NT) are not. Solaris at least will be using PAM in 2.6 in a publically-visible fashion; it does in 2.5 but not usefully. This allows you to provide binary authentication/administration modules without requiring any source hackery. > Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 22:01:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA15867 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdland.rhein-neckar.de (root@birdland.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.88.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA15859 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bsd@localhost) by birdland.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id HAA04000 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:01:17 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:01:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: Martin Jangowski To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: INN 1.5.1 - symlink problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! A few days ago, I switched our main news machine from 1.4.unoff4 to 1.5.1 (straight from the -stable ports). I'm noticing lots of errlog-entries like Apr 21 03:19:22 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/soc/women/161436 and alt/women/attitudes/7462 File exists Apr 21 03:25:04 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/microsoft/public/frontpage/client/24917 and microsoft/public/frontpage/extensions/windowsnt/2041 File exists Apr 21 03:30:17 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/alt/slack/106031 and alt/fan/tito/2127 File exists Apr 21 03:32:22 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/comp/security/unix/32208 and comp/unix/admin/43142 File exists Apr 21 03:35:35 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/aus/computers/mac/14873 and alt/sys/mac/newuser-help/2172 File exists Apr 21 03:35:48 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/aus/flame/46620 and alt/usa-sucks/4356 File exists Apr 21 03:56:16 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/rec/arts/movies/lists+surveys/14335 and alt/tv/seinfeld/50914 File exists Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/misc/entrepreneurs/248478 and market/internet/free/14806 File exists Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER throttle File exists writing symlinking article file -- throttling Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER cant write history <5jdm5g$k1o@bolivia.earthlink.net> Cross-device link Our newsspool spans several file systems, they are all linked via symlinks to /var/news (like /var/news/rec -> /disk3/var.news.rec). I'm running 2.1.7.1 and just exhausted my pool of ideas... makehistory -bunv runs regularly (about once per month), the permissions seem to be all right. Any ideas? Martin | Martin Jangowski E-Mail: maja@birdland.rhein-neckar.de | | Voice: +49 621/53 95 06 Fax: +49 621/53 95 07 | | Snail Mail: Koenigsbacher Str. 16 D-67067 Ludwigshafen Germany | | RNInet e.V. Rhein-Neckar Internet | From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 22:15:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA16193 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA16187 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.8.4/8.6.9) id NAA20457 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:21:27 GMT Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:21:27 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199704211321.NAA20457@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: ppp dialin modem Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, My box is FreeBSD2.1-release and my dialin modem is ACCURA 144+FAX 144, When I setup it as the mannual, both RD and SD turn on and blink all the time and I can't dialin. Is there any special configuration needed? What's the diffrence of ACCURA and OPTIMA style? Do FreeBSD-2.1 support 28.8K modem by default? Best regaurds! --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 22:36:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA16865 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA16858; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA20376; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:36:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA21087; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:31:21 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:31:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: <199704210222.LAA06517@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > Michael Dillon stands accused of saying: > > > > RADIUS is used by terminal servers to authenticate users by "going to some > > server and asking him" and you can have a backup RADIUS server in case the > > primary one goes down. I think ISP's would find it easier to manage a site > > using RADIUS for all authentication, not just terminal servers. > > Unfortunately, Livingston have put some anal restrictions on their latest > RADIUS server code. So what? There is already RADIUS server code out there that doesn't have anal restrictions and it works just fine. And there is already RADIUS client code incorporated into radlogin for Linux so the essential pieces are all there. > This is one of the goals of the PAM framework. I hope to have some time > next week to get myself back up to date with PAM and update my BSD > port of it. Once I have it building and linkable, it will be time to > start discussing how to integrate it. 8) IMHO RADIUS should just be another PAM option. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 22:41:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17075 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@usr1-dialup49.Denver.mci.net [204.189.201.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17067 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04201 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:51:47 -0600 Message-ID: <335B0072.2C0D6515@denverweb.net> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:51:46 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) References: <3.0.1.32.19970420213538.009d6310@sentex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Its not my problem... They can read whatever they want as far as I am > concerned... If its someone in authority demonstrates to me a particular > post is illegal and should be removed, I will... > You may feel someone can read whatever they want, but if it is illegal, and it is on your server, it IS your problem. The way that someone in authority demonstrates somthing is illegal, it is usually in the form of a warrant, or felony charges. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Apr 20 22:41:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17128 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17115 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA03795; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:41:11 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:41:10 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: xiyuan qian cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ppp dialin modem In-Reply-To: <199704211321.NAA20457@npc.haplink.co.cn> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, xiyuan qian wrote: > Hi, My box is FreeBSD2.1-release and my dialin modem is ACCURA 144+FAX 144, > When I setup it as the mannual, both RD and SD turn on and blink all the > time and I can't dialin. Is there any special configuration needed? > What's the diffrence of ACCURA and OPTIMA style? Do FreeBSD-2.1 support > 28.8K modem by default? You must tell the modems to be quiet and not echo. ATQ1E0 - check the dipswitches to make this permanent. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 00:03:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA25345 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25320; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA08288; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:33:07 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704210703.QAA08288@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: from Michael Dillon at "Apr 20, 97 10:31:19 pm" To: michael@memra.com (Michael Dillon) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:33:07 +0930 (CST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon stands accused of saying: > > > > Unfortunately, Livingston have put some anal restrictions on their latest > > RADIUS server code. > > So what? There is already RADIUS server code out there that doesn't have > anal restrictions and it works just fine. And there is already RADIUS > client code incorporated into radlogin for Linux so the essential pieces > are all there. "So what" is that the new Livingston code is Radius-2 compliant, and has lots of nice features. > > This is one of the goals of the PAM framework. I hope to have some time > > next week to get myself back up to date with PAM and update my BSD > > port of it. Once I have it building and linkable, it will be time to > > start discussing how to integrate it. 8) > > IMHO RADIUS should just be another PAM option. It is. If you are interested in PAM, I suggest some research 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 01:12:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA28447 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.linkdesign.com (nserv1.hlink.com.cy [194.42.131.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA28442 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsd.linkdesign.com (nicosia44.cylink.com.cy [194.42.129.78]) by relay.linkdesign.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA12199 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:12:53 +0300 (EET DST) Received: (from michael.bielicki@localhost) by bsd.linkdesign.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10916; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:10:34 +0300 (EEST) From: Michael Bielicki Message-ID: <19970421110938.48358@linkdesign.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:09:38 +0300 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: News over Sat ??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-md5; boundary=9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR X-Mailer: Mutt 0.68 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi there, I have a question to all the ISP's getting their newsfeed over sat. I have to setup a ISP in Eastern Europe and the bandwith there wights gold. So, is Sat a good option right now ???? A year ago it wasnt :)) Any suggestions ??? Thank's Michael -- Michael Bielicki Link Design International Ltd. Buisnetco Telecommunications Ltd. 65 Cliff Road, Tramore, Office 23, 13, Iras Street Co. Waterford, Ireland Nicosia 1061, Rep. of Cyprus Tel: +353-51-390880 We use FreeBSD Tel: +357 2 362 421 Fax: +353 51 386921 http://www.linkdesign.com Fax: +357 2 362 429 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Comment: Requires PGP version 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBM1sgwsneSpf+YTVhAQG84AP/SfaEVuRX9VRca5NswEYUwxL+QW24QH5z zM4LkAIen+JnWKpOIEusN+vq4b2Suc5funfFf1J1LHv4vXeGKn/DMJquy6bIfHpg WiaPgv9eHpRmdK/ki936ASb6KXTvyZjzuBndqfC71n4Qq2hIwexYea1B89l3jvwy c9Gio9/Upgg= =Rupk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 02:47:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA02556 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 02:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA02549 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 02:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA15053; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:44:22 +0100 Message-ID: <335B36F5.61133CF4@cablenet.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:44:21 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sam Hayes Merritt, III" CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <1.5.4.32.19970418141941.006dbfd8@wrcmail> <3357FB46.7E51@rust.net> <3.0.1.16.19970419095405.3f2f5948@nwpros.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sam Hayes Merritt, III wrote: > > At 03:03 PM 4/19/97 +0100, Damian Hamill wrote: > > >There will soon be a very cost effective satellite news feed available > >in Europe. I understand the pricing might be something like $2000-$3000 > >US setup fee and $15 per year subscription (yes I said fifteen dollars > >per year). I understand that bandwidth is unlimited and the full news > >feed will be delivered. > > Okay, unlimited? how? there is a limit somewhere. > And $15 seems like a WAY underestimate. I really really meant unlimited bandwidth and $15 per year. Actually there is a limit of about 768K I think but this will more than suffice for a few years, eventually I expect this limit will be removed. No $15 is not an underestimate considering all the relevant factors (which I'm afraid I can't divulge at the moment). regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 03:16:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA03828 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 03:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA03822 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 03:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA01336; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970421062113.0250c100@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:21:13 -0400 To: Blaine Minazzi , isp@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <335B0072.2C0D6515@denverweb.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19970420213538.009d6310@sentex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:51 PM 4/20/97 -0600, Blaine Minazzi wrote: >> >> Its not my problem... They can read whatever they want as far as I am >> concerned... If its someone in authority demonstrates to me a particular >> post is illegal and should be removed, I will... >> > >You may feel someone can read whatever they want, but if it is illegal, >and it is on your server, it IS your problem. The way that someone in >authority demonstrates somthing is illegal, it is usually in the form of >a warrant, or felony charges. As far as I know, in Ontario, Canada, an ISP is NOT required to go through each and every post to determine and judge whether or not a particular post is illegal or not. I dont have time to do, and I dont think the police or the courts expect me to do it. Sure, you can make reasonable efforts (e.g. not carry alt.pedophilia or alt.binaries.warez.*, which we dont), but I am not going to spend 24hrs a day going through alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* to make sure each and every post does not depict someone under 18. ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 03:39:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA04715 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 03:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (mailrelay1.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA04707 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 03:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA13561; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:38:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19970421113841.46277@pavilion.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:38:41 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: INN 1.5.1 - symlink problems References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from Martin Jangowski on Mon, Apr 21, 1997 at 07:01:16AM +0200 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Apr 21, 1997 at 07:01:16AM +0200, Martin Jangowski wrote: > Hi! > > Apr 21 03:19:22 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/soc/women/161436 and alt/women/attitudes/7462 File exists > Apr 21 03:25:04 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/microsoft/public/frontpage/client/24917 and microsoft/public/frontpage/extensions/windowsnt/2041 File exists > Apr 21 03:30:17 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/alt/slack/106031 and alt/fan/tito/2127 File exists > Apr 21 03:32:22 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/comp/security/unix/32208 and comp/unix/admin/43142 File exists > Apr 21 03:35:35 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/aus/computers/mac/14873 and alt/sys/mac/newuser-help/2172 File exists > Apr 21 03:35:48 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/aus/flame/46620 and alt/usa-sucks/4356 File exists > Apr 21 03:56:16 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/rec/arts/movies/lists+surveys/14335 and alt/tv/seinfeld/50914 File exists > Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/misc/entrepreneurs/248478 and market/internet/free/14806 File exists > Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER throttle File exists writing symlinking article file -- throttling > Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER cant write history <5jdm5g$k1o@bolivia.earthlink.net> Cross-device link It's mentioned in the INND FAQ somewhere but I can't off the top of my head remember what it is. Its something to do with the 'crosslink' process linking across file systems. Usually the server only needs to make a soft link, but sometimes it needs to make a new copy. I think that there's a flag that you need to start INND with to make it do the right thing. Joe -- Josef Karthauser Technical Manager Email: joe@pavilion.net Pavilion Internet plc. [Tel: +44 1273 607072 Fax: +44 1273 607073] From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 03:39:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA04769 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 03:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA04745; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 03:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by mail.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA01657; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:39:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA00771; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:39:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19970421053941.63305@shell.futuresouth.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:39:41 -0500 From: Tim Tsai To: questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Help interpreting this tcpdump log Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am enclosing a tcpdump session that demonstrate a problem we're seeing. ts is a Livingston terminal server and mail is a FreeBSD 2.2.1R machine. The problem is that "telnet mail 25" from the terminal server will show the initial sendmail login banner, but nothing works after that. It seems that this problem is only showing up if we go through the terminal server. Any ideas? MTU is set to 1500 on both machines and they're on the same ethernet segment. Thanks, Tim Result of: "ts> telnet mail 25" "HELP" no response after this. 05:22:41.144757 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: S 127:127(0) win 2048 05:22:41.144909 mail.smtp > ts.1062: S 1673748096:1673748096(0) ack 128 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:41.145669 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: . ack 1 win 2048 05:22:41.157537 mail.smtp > ts.1062: P 1:94(93) ack 1 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:41.158462 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: . ack 94 win 2048 05:22:41.199733 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: P 1:7(6) ack 94 win 2048 05:22:41.307065 mail.smtp > ts.1062: . ack 7 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:42.078261 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: P 7:8(1) ack 94 win 2048 05:22:42.107059 mail.smtp > ts.1062: . ack 8 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:42.188094 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: P 8:9(1) ack 94 win 2048 05:22:42.297938 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: P 9:10(1) ack 94 win 2048 05:22:42.307060 mail.smtp > ts.1062: . ack 10 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:42.407825 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: P 10:11(1) ack 94 win 2048 05:22:42.507069 mail.smtp > ts.1062: . ack 11 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:42.737394 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: P 11:12(1) ack 94 win 2048 05:22:42.907061 mail.smtp > ts.1062: . ack 12 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:44.440164 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: F 12:12(0) ack 94 win 2048 05:22:44.440286 mail.smtp > ts.1062: . ack 13 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:44.440880 mail.smtp > ts.1062: P 94:120(26) ack 13 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:44.441368 mail.smtp > ts.1062: F 120:120(0) ack 13 win 16384 (DF) 05:22:44.441763 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: . ack 120 win 2048 05:22:44.442204 ts.1062 > mail.smtp: . ack 121 win 2048 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 05:26:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA10094 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10089 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21353; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:26:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Hugh Blandford cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help with Xylogics RA4000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970421113455.006b27ec@mail.island.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I couldnt get any release after 10.1 of the router kernal to work properly - in my case they rebooted themselves all the time. Bay is not helpful, they just do a good job of sounding helpful. Expand with different equipment - we are. On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Hugh Blandford wrote: > This is a little off topic but I'm sure that there is someone out there who > could be a bit more helpful than Bay are being. > > I am running Release 13.3 with rack mounting modems that do not provide > DSR. With control_lines set to modem control and need_dsr set to either > Y\N the annex is still expecting DSR to be active. When this is forced > manually (hardwired on the telco connector) the annex behaves as expected. > Basically this appears to be a problem with this release of the software as > version 9.2.7 works as published. > > Does anybody have any suggestions rather than rewiring all the connectors > or buying a Livingston Portmaster? :-) > > Regards, > > Hugh. > From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 06:24:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA12785 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.35.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12779; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from yves@localhost) by maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07127; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704211324.JAA07127@maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Yves Lepage Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 09:23:59 -0400 To: Vinay Bannai Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Reply-To: yves@CC.McGill.CA References: <199704200512.WAA16052@agni.nuko.com> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Vinay, What we do here is that we only maintain an old-unix passwd file with the passwords in. Then we use the pwconv utility on solaris to generate the shadow equivalent. On FreeBSD, you can do the same except you use the pwd_mkdb utility to generate the password database. I hope this helps, Yves Begin forwarded message: X-SMTP-Posting-Origin: ns3.harborcom.net (ns3.harborcom.net [206.158.4.7]) From: Vinay Bannai Subject: Need a common passwd file among machines To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:12:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi folks, I need a common passwd file that is shared by a FreeBSD machine, Linux machine, Solaris and a SunOS machine. I do not want to use NIS. I thought of using rdist to distribute the passwd file among all these machines but could not because some of them use shadow passwd files and others don't. Also, I am not sure the passwd encryption is the same on all these platforms. More generally, the reason I am using this approach is to make the developement of code easier by using cvs. I have one machine exporting the cvs source tree and others mount it. To keep the same uids, I need to share the passwd files. Does anyone have a better suggestions? Thanks Vinay From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 06:29:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13042 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.35.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13034; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from yves@localhost) by maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA07167; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704211328.JAA07167@maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Yves Lepage Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 09:28:51 -0400 To: Alex Belits Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines cc: Vinay Bannai , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: yves@CC.McGill.CA References: Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, > P.S. Is there any existing thing or at least an idea of making one that > does this thing nicer? NIS is based on rather dumb idea that to > authenticate local user one will want to go to some server and ask him > instead of IMHO more sane approach of distributing authentication > information from that server to always perform authentication locally and > never depend on some host being accessible at the time of user's login. > > In surface this is right. However, NIS does database lookups instead of sequential file access (non-FreeBSD systems) and that's one of the better reasons of existence of NIS. With a few thousands of users, sequential search becomes rather heavy. IMO, NIS is fine, given you have reliable networks and reliable servers and at least one slave. What I don't like about NIS is that in 1997, it still doesn't allow for atomic modifications of the database (add one user, etc...). Regards, Yves From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 06:37:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13713 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA13707; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA13412; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:40:05 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:40:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Yves Lepage cc: Vinay Bannai , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: <199704211328.JAA07167@maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Yves Lepage wrote: > In surface this is right. However, NIS does database lookups instead of sequential > file access (non-FreeBSD systems) and that's one of the better reasons of existence > of NIS. With a few thousands of users, sequential search becomes rather heavy. indexed database can be used just fine locally. > > IMO, NIS is fine, given you have reliable networks and reliable servers and at > least one slave. Networks can be reliable, but if any network problem makes large parts of network inoperable just because they can't access authentication server, overall fault tolerance of the network becomes too low, especially for ISPs. -- Alex From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 06:58:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA15090 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from works.co.uk (root@calvary.works.co.uk [194.217.193.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA15083 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pavanne by works.co.uk (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA00543; Mon, 21 Apr 97 14:58:23 +0100 Message-Id: <9704211358.AA00543@works.co.uk> Received: by pavanne.works.co.uk (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA01368; Mon, 21 Apr 97 14:58:21 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Mark Konkol Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 14:58:19 +0100 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) References: Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon wrote: > Email is already protected legally. > ... > Stuff in a Squid proxy cache is the same as stuff that is in transit and > may be buffered in any number of places. > ... > But USENET is very different, and IMHO it makes the ISP very vulnerable. > ... Hmm, ok, if there is this legal distinction, clearly the solution is to set up a global news cacheing system. But I think there's a case to be made for saying that that's exactly what USENET is already... Consider - web caches and news systems are similar in that: the info is stored on your system, but you have no detailed knowledge of what the info is, and unless you go out of your way to configure restrictions, filters and such-like, you have no real control of what the info is. Perhaps I'm missing some crucial difference? --- Mark Konkol Complete Works Ltd. 399 Strand London WC2R 0LT Tel: +44(0)171 836 0808 Fax: +44(0)171 836 0440 http://www.works.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 07:48:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA19039 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asis.com (root@red.asis.com [206.99.112.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19030 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:48:36 -0700 (PDT) From: nella@asis.com Received: from Rana (ppp-1.asis.com [206.99.112.17]) by asis.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA02912 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704211449.HAA02912@asis.com> X-Sender: nella@asis.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: virtual ftp Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can anyone tell me how to set up anonymous ftp service for virtual domains on FreeBSD? I've checked the archives, and found questions but no answers. Thanks in advance, Nella From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 07:56:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA19711 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@usr1-dialup39.Denver.mci.net [204.189.201.39]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19700 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05069 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:09:02 -0600 Message-ID: <335B830D.3D947A59@denverweb.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:09:01 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) References: <3.0.1.32.19970420213538.009d6310@sentex.net> <3.0.1.32.19970421062113.0250c100@sentex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Tancsa wrote: > As far as I know, in Ontario, Canada, an ISP is NOT required to go through > each and every post to determine and judge whether or not a particular post > is illegal or not. I dont have time to do, and I dont think the police or > the courts expect me to do it. Sure, you can make reasonable efforts (e.g. > not carry alt.pedophilia or alt.binaries.warez.*, which we dont), but I am > not going to spend 24hrs a day going through > alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* to make sure each and every post does not > depict someone under 18. I don't know about canadian law. Here, if a newsgroup carries a number of illegal images, it really wouldn't matter _what_ the title of the group was, you might find yourself facing charges. I don't think that a jury would be as likely to aquit for illegal images in alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* as they would on alt.tv.foo-bar Whether you are convicted or not, the cost of defending yourself could be rather high. If a law enforcement agency wants to put you out of business, they may seize your equipment as evidence. You get it back AFTER the trial. Another twist, is they may seize ALL your assets they feel were gained through illegal activities. ( like they do in drug cases. ) So, you could find your house, car, bank accounts and equipment all seized. (owch! Now how are you going to hire an attorney? )The Fourth amendment has become as effective as toilet paper with that practice. While someone here is hashing it out in court, their customers go down the street to the next ISP, and the telco and maybe your upstream still expect to get paid. Same with office space, etc. You could be bankrupt and done for before it even makes it to court for trial. So, for here, removing ALL binaries ( in the sexually oriented groups at least.) could show that you were trying to do your part. Since they are such bandwidth pigs, simply getting rig of all binaries in newsgroups would be the best solution, IMHO. As ISP's, I feel we have a responsibility to try to prohibit criminals from using our service to conduct thier illegal activities, while providing our legitimate customers with as much service as possible. Actually, I am surprised that many ISP's care more about the money than the fact that we are being _used_ by criminals to help them break the law. Hell, why not just let a drug dealer put a little package in your car for your routine trip across the country to aunt emma's. They put it there, someone on the other end picks it up, but as long as YOU don't know whats in it, your not liable? That will get you a room with striped sunlite in this country. Blaine From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 08:16:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA21335 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@usr1-dialup39.Denver.mci.net [204.189.201.39]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21322 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05103 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:29:04 -0600 Message-ID: <335B87BF.752DDE15@denverweb.net> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:29:03 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) References: <9704211358.AA00543@works.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mark Konkol wrote: > > Michael Dillon wrote: > > Email is already protected legally. > > ... > > Stuff in a Squid proxy cache is the same as stuff that is in transit and > > may be buffered in any number of places. > > ... > > But USENET is very different, and IMHO it makes the ISP very vulnerable. > > ... > > Hmm, ok, if there is this legal distinction, clearly the solution is to set up a global news cacheing system. But I > think there's a case to be made for saying that that's exactly what USENET is already... > > Consider - web caches and news systems are similar in that: > the info is stored on your system, but > you have no detailed knowledge of what the info is, and > unless you go out of your way to configure restrictions, filters and such-like, you have no real control of what the info is. The sqid cache is not there for users to access directly, it is there are the result of a request, and stored temporarily in case it gets called again, it does not have to fetch it agian. YOu have no control over it what requests are made, and info stored. It is not accessable by users. It's purpose is efficiency and saving bandwidth. Since it is not accessable by users, it would be very hard to make a case that your intent was to break the law. Also, if the machine is shut down, the cache is gone. News is STORED on your server, for the PURPOSE of being disseminated, and is directly accessable by the users. If a particular newsgroup is know to frequently contain illegal images, it would be much easier to convice a jury that your intent was to make all forms of pornography available, including illegal porn. The cache also does not go out and fetch things on it's own, or based on what you think you might need today. Once it is retreived, it stays in cache a while. News is gathered based on "what groups and articles do you have?" and "Send me the ones I don't have". If the users waht to fetch these images via a web browser, no one can really stop them, and as an ISP, you are most likely not liable for where they point their browser, or even if the image is stored in your cache for a while. If the stuff is being retrieved from a server inside the USA though, the person who made the images available is subject to prosecution. Quite a difference in most peoples eye's. Blaine From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 08:19:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA21580 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.netcorps.com (main.netcorps.com [205.149.1.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21573 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by main.netcorps.com (8.7.1/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA13101 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704211516.IAA13101@main.netcorps.com> X-Authentication-Warning: main.netcorps.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: unsubscribe Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:16:07 -0700 From: Chris Bura Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk unsubscribe From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 08:19:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA21664 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from main.netcorps.com (main.netcorps.com [205.149.1.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21649 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by main.netcorps.com (8.7.1/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA13134 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704211516.IAA13134@main.netcorps.com> X-Authentication-Warning: main.netcorps.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:16:40 -0700 From: Kelly Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 09:24:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28005 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA27983; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA13617; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:20:53 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199704211620.JAA13617@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:20:53 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, vinay@agni.nuko.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex Belits" at Apr 20, 97 04:38:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > How do I force synchronization with someone's desktop box if they > > turn it off and go home? > > When box is turned off it definitely doesn't need any authentication > information at all -- no one can login there anyway. When such box boots > it can ask server, and server will update authentication information if it > was changed (similar to what happens when secondary nameserver is started) > before any user will have chance to log in -- still less overhead than to > ask server every time. For pure clients, you are correct. Unless the box is a server. Then it depends on who wins the election whether it will update or not. And perhaps the other server who would have won the election is now down. Either way, it's possible for the newly reenabled server to serve stale data to other clients. > > This is the same for all push-model authentication distribution > > services: it has a hard time working in the real world, and depends > > on silly ideas like "skulking" processes to push the data when they > > can. > > > > Meanwhile, between "skulks", the replicating tree has invalid > > information, and may win the "master election" for a client, and > > authenticate client credentials which are, in fact, "stale", and > > there;'s no way to stop it from happening. > > The idea is that server updates authentication data on clients whenever > it's changed, not client asks server about that (except when booting). So > the delay between data being changed on the server and being received on > some client will be almost as short as it takes to do remote > authentication procedure from that client (depends on network bandwidth, > server resources, etc). And this relies on everything being up. No matter how you slice it, there's a race window. At the very least, there is a race window on transient network failure that causes a net split to occur: the very case where you would want replication in the first place. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 09:42:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28929 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28909 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eddie ([206.62.254.29]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08178; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:44:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <335B9146.568E@eaznet.com> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:09:43 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Henrich CC: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <5jdpms$dar$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <199704201917.PAA20332@crh.cl.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Charles Henrich wrote: > > In lists.freebsd.isp you write: > > >Eddie Fry wrote in message ID > ><3357FEE5.4DBB@eaznet.com>: > >> I am in TOTAL agreement. I don't think anyone's going to lose customers > >> because they don't keep this junk on a local drive. If anything, change > >> your focus from "WE GIVE YOU EVERYTHING A SMUT-LOVER WOULD WANT" to "WE > >> GIVE YOU FASTER ACCESS AND DOWNLOAD SPEEDS" because we don't jam our > >> lines with smut. > > >Sorry, you lose. I know from experience :-( Customers have left > >webspan (the ISP I currently work for) because I had troubles with > >hard drive reliability in the early days and they went elsewhere to > >get their porn. And they were porn suckers, believe me. ALL the people > >who phoned to complain about the server being down, when cornered by > >tech. support, admitted that they were after a.b.p.e, even one who > >started out saying ``When is the news server gonna be back, my > >business depends on it!''. He never posted a thing, he just read. > > Hell, a very large percentage of ISP customers are using it for pornography. > Sex sells, always has, always will. The news statistics SHOW it, what, in the > top 100 read newsgroups 90% are alt.binaries.* related. If you dont carry > those groups, you lose/dont get customers, period. > > -Crh > -- > > Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu > > http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich Well, there I have to disagree with you. It's been our experience that newsgroups aren't that important to the non-smut-lovers. We started a POP January 1, and have had (to my knowledge) only TWO people turn away from us because we didn't have a news feed in that POP. OK, 90% of people using news are using the alt.binaries, BUT, how many people are actually using news? I don't think even 5% of our customer base is using the news libraries and then probably only 5% of the time. Eddie From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 11:54:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06681 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from works.co.uk (root@calvary.works.co.uk [194.217.193.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA06674 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pavanne by works.co.uk (NX5.67e/NX3.0M) id AA01096; Mon, 21 Apr 97 19:54:22 +0100 Message-Id: <9704211854.AA01096@works.co.uk> Received: by pavanne.works.co.uk (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA01600; Mon, 21 Apr 97 19:54:19 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: <335B87BF.752DDE15@denverweb.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Mark Konkol Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 19:54:15 +0100 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Binaries in Usenet (was: News...) References: <9704211358.AA00543@works.co.uk> <335B87BF.752DDE15@denverweb.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Blaine Minazzi wrote: > The sqid cache is not there for users to access directly... True, but then again, do you let users access the news spool directly? A cache that users can't access at all isn't really much use :) I still think the distinction is a bit arbitrary. Squid certainly can store stuff on disk - if you're running BSD it can't help but do so! (Not in any easy-to-read form, granted, but it's still there...) In the end, you're still offering a service that people can access in order to retrieve potentially illegal material. In any event, suppose someone were to write a web cache that wrote pages to disk (to save memory and make sure the cache didn't empty on a reboot) and to prefetch pages from commonly visited sites (to increase response time over ever-scarce bandwidth). Would the ISP then become liable? > If the stuff is being retrieved from a server inside > the USA though, the person who made the images available is subject to > prosecution. Indeed, so why does this not apply to the originator of a news posting rather than the hapless ISP? If you caught me in a cynical mood (perish the thought :) I might suspect that the real distinction is one of finger-pointing. Web servers are easy to find, ISPs are easy to find, posters to newsgroups can be as hard to grab as greased eels :) --- Mark Konkol Complete Works Ltd. 399 Strand London WC2R 0LT Tel: +44(0)171 836 0808 Fax: +44(0)171 836 0440 http://www.works.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 14:17:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14694 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14688 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id WAA12222; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:16:20 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id VAA24001; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:59:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA20447; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:11:00 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970421195914.006d2de0@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:59:14 +0100 To: bofh@TerraNova.net, Bradley Dunn From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: ERR POP EOF console errors Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 17:08 18/04/97 -0400, Travis Mikalson wrote: >Bradley Dunn wrote: >> >> On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Travis Mikalson wrote: >> >> > The "ERR: "auth" unknown command" is caused by older versions of >> > Micros**t Internet Mail. >> > Someone thought 'auth' was a POP command over there at Microsoft.. >> > *shrug* >> >> Ummm...it is. See RFC1734. >> >> pbd > >Ok, then why does qpopper 2.2 not like it? >MS Internet Mail used to do _something_ wrong with the auth command >according to that particular error message qpopper generates.. Um, I tested it with Eudora... quitting mid-download causes the same error. MS Mail is not alone -- or qpopper logs unnecessarily... take your pick. -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 15:23:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17834 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17816; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA02357; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970421182145.00b5ea00@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:21:51 -0400 To: et-users@etinc.com From: dennis Subject: Quad Port T1 PCI board now shipping Cc: isp@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, server-linux@netspace.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ET Ships ET/5025PQ Quad T1 PCI board for FreeBSD. Currently only 4 port T1 boards are in stock. Dual and single port PCI boards will be available on or about May 5. A driver for Linux should be available by May 5. For more info see: http://www.etinc.com From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 18:43:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA04539 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA04534 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id UAA14853; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:45:00 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014838; Tue Apr 22 01:44:55 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970421203338.007179cc@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:33:38 -0500 To: nella@asis.com From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: virtual ftp Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 07:49 AM 4/21/97 -0700, nella@asis.com wrote: >Can anyone tell me how to set up anonymous ftp service for virtual domains >on FreeBSD? I've checked the archives, and found questions but no answers. There is a wu-ftp diff hack that does this nicely. (sorry don't have the URL handy) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 18:58:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA05243 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05237 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id VAA26136; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id VAA10271; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:57:24 -0400 (EDT) To: Adrian Chadd cc: Steve , Mike Tancsa , Michael Dillon , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:34:46 +0800." Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:57:24 -0400 Message-ID: <10269.861674244@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Adrian Chadd wrote in message ID : > *WHAT* are they reading though? > Thats the problem. It starts with `p', ends with `n' and has the middle letters `or'. Surprised? I'm not Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 19:02:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05449 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05443 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.8.4/8.6.9) id KAA25019; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:08:15 GMT Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:08:15 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199704221008.KAA25019@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: danny@panda.hilink.com.au, xiyuan@npc.haplink.co.cn Subject: Re: ppp dialin modem Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, xiyuan qian wrote: > > > Hi, My box is FreeBSD2.1-release and my dialin modem is ACCURA 144+FAX 144, > > When I setup it as the mannual, both RD and SD turn on and blink all the > > time and I can't dialin. Is there any special configuration needed? > > What's the diffrence of ACCURA and OPTIMA style? Do FreeBSD-2.1 support > > 28.8K modem by default? > > You must tell the modems to be quiet and not echo. > ATQ1E0 - check the dipswitches to make this permanent. > > Danny > Hi, thank you again! My dialin modem do not blink the RD and SD light when I entered the ATQ1E0 command as you told me. But when I dialin, it shows CONNECT 9600 and stop at there. The login do not show out so I can not connect with my server. Why? Best regaurds! --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 19:18:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06317 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from packfish.gateway.net.hk (john@packfish.gateway.net.hk [202.76.19.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06311 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from john@localhost) by packfish.gateway.net.hk (8.8.3/8.7.3) id KAA03977; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:25:37 +0800 (HKT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:25:37 +0800 (HKT) From: John Beukema To: Martin Jangowski cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: INN 1.5.1 - symlink problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This can be caused by a corrupted history file. Use the utilities to check the integrity of the files and repair or restore. Make history does not necessarily fix everything. By the way make sure you stop innd before running makehistory -- it can cause the corruption. It is not a fault of INNd. This space unintentionally left unblank jbeukema On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Martin Jangowski wrote: > Hi! > > A few days ago, I switched our main news machine from 1.4.unoff4 to 1.5.1 > (straight from the -stable ports). I'm noticing lots of errlog-entries > like > > Apr 21 03:19:22 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/soc/women/161436 and alt/women/attitudes/7462 File exists > Apr 21 03:25:04 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/microsoft/public/frontpage/client/24917 and microsoft/public/frontpage/extensions/windowsnt/2041 File exists > Apr 21 03:30:17 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/alt/slack/106031 and alt/fan/tito/2127 File exists > Apr 21 03:32:22 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/comp/security/unix/32208 and comp/unix/admin/43142 File exists > Apr 21 03:35:35 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/aus/computers/mac/14873 and alt/sys/mac/newuser-help/2172 File exists > Apr 21 03:35:48 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/aus/flame/46620 and alt/usa-sucks/4356 File exists > Apr 21 03:56:16 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/rec/arts/movies/lists+surveys/14335 and alt/tv/seinfeld/50914 File exists > Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER cant symlink /var/news/misc/entrepreneurs/248478 and market/internet/free/14806 File exists > Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER throttle File exists writing symlinking article file -- throttling > Apr 21 03:59:13 birdland innd: SERVER cant write history <5jdm5g$k1o@bolivia.earthlink.net> Cross-device link > > Our newsspool spans several file systems, they are all linked via symlinks > to /var/news (like /var/news/rec -> /disk3/var.news.rec). I'm running > 2.1.7.1 and just exhausted my pool of ideas... makehistory -bunv runs > regularly (about once per month), the permissions seem to be all right. > > Any ideas? > > Martin > > > | Martin Jangowski E-Mail: maja@birdland.rhein-neckar.de | > | Voice: +49 621/53 95 06 Fax: +49 621/53 95 07 | > | Snail Mail: Koenigsbacher Str. 16 D-67067 Ludwigshafen Germany | > | RNInet e.V. Rhein-Neckar Internet | > > From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Apr 21 19:25:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06575 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06569 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA08511; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:24:42 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:24:41 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: xiyuan qian cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ppp dialin modem In-Reply-To: <199704221008.KAA25019@npc.haplink.co.cn> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, xiyuan qian wrote: > > > > On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, xiyuan qian wrote: > > > > > Hi, My box is FreeBSD2.1-release and my dialin modem is ACCURA 144+FAX 144, > > > When I setup it as the mannual, both RD and SD turn on and blink all the > > > time and I can't dialin. Is there any special configuration needed? > > > What's the diffrence of ACCURA and OPTIMA style? Do FreeBSD-2.1 support > > > 28.8K modem by default? > > > > You must tell the modems to be quiet and not echo. > > ATQ1E0 - check the dipswitches to make this permanent. > > > Hi, thank you again! My dialin modem do not blink the RD and SD light when I > entered the ATQ1E0 command as you told me. But when I dialin, it shows CONNECT > 9600 and stop at there. The login do not show out so I can not connect with my > server. Why? I presume you have enabled the tty in /etc/ttys. Is your modem set at &C1&D2 ? You need those settings, too, but they are usually the factory defaults. If you have &C1, getty should see the carrier signal on the modem line and issue a 'login:' prompt. You should be using ttyd0, not cuaa0. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 04:30:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA09415 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 04:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA09408; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 04:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ultra.ts.kiev.ua by agora.rdrop.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0wJdly-0009A0C; Tue, 22 Apr 97 04:30 PDT Received: from nbki.ipri.kiev.ua by ultra.ts.kiev.ua with SMTP id TAA10741; (8.8.3/zah/2.1) Tue, 21 Apr 1970 19:59:27 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from cki.ipri.kiev.ua by nbki.ipri.kiev.ua with ESMTP id RAA15094; (8.6.9/zah/1.1) Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:29:13 +0100 Received: from 194.44.146.14 (mac.ipri.kiev.ua [194.44.146.14]) by cki.ipri.kiev.ua (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18186; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:34:27 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <335B6D50.4EBB@cki.ipri.kiev.ua> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:36:14 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@cki.ipri.kiev.ua Organization: IPRI X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vinay Bannai CC: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines References: <199704200512.WAA16052@agni.nuko.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Vinay Bannai wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I need a common passwd file that is shared by a FreeBSD machine, Linux > machine, Solaris and a SunOS machine. I do not want to use NIS. No the *same* file is impossible. > I thought of using rdist to distribute the passwd file among all these > machines but could not because some of them use shadow passwd files and > others don't. Also, I am not sure the passwd encryption is the same on all > these platforms. > > More generally, the reason I am using this approach is to make the > developement of code easier by using cvs. I have one machine exporting the > cvs source tree and others mount it. To keep the same uids, I need to > share the passwd files. Does anyone have a better suggestions? > 1. look at cfengine from GNU. you can geerate one passwd file from another, than distribute. 2. simolest method is to use kerberose > Thanks > Vinay From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 04:54:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA10557 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 04:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA10532 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 04:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00705; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:51:01 +0100 Message-ID: <335CA624.167EB0E7@cablenet.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:51:00 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: danlaw@rust.net CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net> <3357F448.34A9@rust.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sysadmin wrote: > > Damian Hamill wrote: > > > > There just isn't enough bandwidth... ever... > True. As the internet evolves the customer will be using it and the > bandwidth they buy from you more completely. But will next month's > debate be over CU-Seeme (sp?), RealVideo, Push technology, or fully > utilized PPP connections caused by someone's new program to stop long > transfers during web browsing, so that http can still take place at > full speed as well? How to forbid, suppress, or eliminate such > advances in technology as menaces to ISP profits, and yet somehow be > able to present less services as "better service"? I didn't write this, I wrote the "isn't enough bandwidth... ever.." line. Please make sure you attribute the correct quotes to the correct people. regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 07:10:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA16503 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.medinet.si (root@server.medinet.si [193.77.234.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA16494 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from blaz@localhost) by server.medinet.si (8.8.5/8.8.5/970420) id QAA05842 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:10:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Blaz Zupan Message-Id: <199704221410.QAA05842@server.medinet.si> Subject: Mail distribution To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:10:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk One topic that I don't think was covered here is mail distribution. How do you guys distribute mail to different servers? Let's say you have two servers and one of them goes down. How would I redirect all mail handling to this second machine? Ok, SMTP is no problem, I simply have the same sendmail configuration on both machines. How about mailboxes? How would users pick up mail through POP3 on this new machine? I simply can't believe that all providers have only one POP3 server. NFS mounting the mail spool is not a solution because you still have the same problem if your NFS server goes down. My only idea right now is to have mail be delivered to BOTH pop3 servers. Or am I completely on the wrong track? Of course I'm using FreeBSD as my main platform... -- Blaz Zupan, blaz.zupan@medinet.si, http://www.medinet.si/~blaz Medinet d.o.o., Linhartova 21, 2000 Maribor, Slovenia From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 07:36:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA17717 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nero.in-design.com (root@nero.in-design.com [204.157.146.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA17712 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from archive@localhost) by nero.in-design.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03003; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:36:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Intuitive Design Archive To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: virtual email Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello all; Is there a way to naturally limit users, so that they could send mail according to their username. I.E. user A who is know in reality as joe1 has a virtual account joe1@hisdom.com He gets and sends his email using one of the common emailers (netscape, eudora, whatever) so he has in his config that his domain is hisdom.com, so he can send email out as his domain is, which he likes. Now I wonder if there is a way that no matter what he puts in his config it will only send out as joe1@hisdom.com. Intuitive Design Archive http://www.in-design.com archive@in-design.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 07:53:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA18429 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18424 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02986; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:53:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Blaz Zupan cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mail distribution In-Reply-To: <199704221410.QAA05842@server.medinet.si> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Blaz Zupan wrote: > POP3 on this new machine? I simply can't believe that > all providers have only one POP3 server. Why cant you? I cant think of how you could keep multiple copies of inboxes in sync. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 07:57:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA18596 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.medinet.si (root@server.medinet.si [193.77.234.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA18585 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 07:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from blaz@localhost) by server.medinet.si (8.8.5/8.8.5/970420) id QAA06519; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:57:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Blaz Zupan Message-Id: <199704221457.QAA06519@server.medinet.si> Subject: Re: Mail distribution In-Reply-To: from Steve at "Apr 22, 97 10:53:28 am" To: shovey@buffnet.net (Steve) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:57:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > POP3 on this new machine? I simply can't believe that > > all providers have only one POP3 server. > Why cant you? How about "single point of failure"? Do you really want me to believe that f.e. AOL has one single POP3 server for all their thousands (millions?) of mailboxes? > I cant think of how you could keep multiple copies of inboxes in sync. Yeah, that's the problem I'm trying to solve :) -- Blaz Zupan, blaz.zupan@medinet.si, http://www.medinet.si/~blaz Medinet d.o.o., Linhartova 21, 2000 Maribor, Slovenia From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 08:55:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA21476 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yacko.netgazer.net (yacko.netgazer.net [208.12.177.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21471 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.12.177.224] (furball.netgazer.com [208.12.177.224]) by yacko.netgazer.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28900 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:01:45 GMT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:57:54 -0500 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Darrin R. Woods" Subject: wu-ftpd 2.4.2 beta 12 question Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are trying to setup virtual ftp sites for some of our customers. After an exhaustive search (and eventually giving up) of the "fbsd.vftp.patch" file for wu-ftp 2.4, I downloaded and compiled the beta 12 of 2.4.2 from ports-current. Compiled great under FreeBSD 2.1.7. Added the "virtual xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx root /path/path/path" lines to the ftpaccess file. Changed inetd to "/usr/local/libexec/ftpd -l -a /usr/local/etc/ftpaccess". HUPed inetd. But.... everytime we try to ftp to whatever address on that server, it always puts us in the regular ftp directory. We've taken out the "/./" from the passwd files, but still won't go to the specified path. Does the fbsd port not include the virtual support? The install notes make some mention of adding -DVIRTUAL to the CFLAGS in the makefile. I can't find any CFLAGS in any of the makefiles. What am I doing wrong? or does anyone know an easier way of achieving what I want. Thanks, in advance. Darrin R. Woods | Will work for bandwidth Director Operations | Netgazer Solutions, Inc. | work: http://www.netgazer.net Dallas, Texas 972.702.9119 | home: http://www.intosh.com My employer most whole-heartedly denies everything I say From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 09:43:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA23734 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23715 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA15925; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id MAA10187; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:42:02 -0400 (EDT) To: John Beukema cc: Martin Jangowski , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: INN 1.5.1 - symlink problems In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:25:37 +0800." Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:42:02 -0400 Message-ID: <10184.861727322@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Beukema wrote in message ID : > This can be caused by a corrupted history file. Use the utilities to > check the integrity of the files and repair or restore. Make history > does not necessarily fix everything. By the way make sure you stop > innd before running makehistory -- it can cause the corruption. It is not a > fault of INNd. A `ctlinnd renumber' (which should be part of news.daily) may help too. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 10:10:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25533 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25528 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id NAA20220; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id NAA17035; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:08:44 -0400 (EDT) To: Steve cc: Blaz Zupan , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Mail distribution In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:53:28 EDT." Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:08:43 -0400 Message-ID: <17033.861728923@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve wrote in message ID : > Why cant you? I cant think of how you could keep multiple copies of > inboxes in sync. 1) You don't have to, although I've been told IMAP4 alledgedly has hooks to do this 2) Ever heard of a NetApp? The principle is very simple. You put up several honkin NFS servers in the back, and as many POP3 server boxes as you like in the front, mounting from the NFS server. Delivery and other configuration is an excercise for the reader. There are other ways too, but I dont wanna be giving out trade secrets :) Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 10:34:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA27371 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27336 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA04190; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:32:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Blaz Zupan cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mail distribution In-Reply-To: <199704221457.QAA06519@server.medinet.si> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Blaz Zupan wrote: > > > POP3 on this new machine? I simply can't believe that > > > all providers have only one POP3 server. > > Why cant you? > > How about "single point of failure"? Do you really want me to > believe that f.e. AOL has one single POP3 server for all their > thousands (millions?) of mailboxes? AOL has proprietary, made by their own programmers, software, with disk mirroring etc. Under freebsd, due to record locking issues across NFS etc, there is no clean way to distribute that I know of. > > > I cant think of how you could keep multiple copies of inboxes in sync. > > Yeah, that's the problem I'm trying to solve :) Keep spare parts on hand, keep good backups, and dont worry so much. You figure, a regular full feed news server is a single machine with a lot of disk pushing gigs of data every day, and it can be done on a pentium with ultra wides. If you are worried about drive failure you can always spend money on an external drive array with disk mirroring so that should a drive fail you can hot swap. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 10:53:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28734 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28713; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA04472; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:53:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Gary Palmer cc: Blaz Zupan , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mail distribution In-Reply-To: <17033.861728923@orion.webspan.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Gary Palmer wrote: > Steve wrote in message ID > : > > Why cant you? I cant think of how you could keep multiple copies of > > inboxes in sync. > > 1) You don't have to, although I've been told IMAP4 alledgedly has > hooks to do this > Why dont you have to? How would you avoid the problem of finding messages you deleted yesterday, in your inbox today simply because you ended up on a different pop server that day? > 2) Ever heard of a NetApp? The principle is very simple. You put up > several honkin NFS servers in the back, and as many POP3 server > boxes as you like in the front, mounting from the NFS > server. Delivery and other configuration is an excercise for the > reader. But Freebsd doesnt have functiona NFS locking does it? or does netapp work around this somehow? From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 10:57:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA28971 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bellind.com ([206.101.34.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28966 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdcexchange.bellind.com ([170.1.130.2]) by firewall.bellind.com with SMTP id <17114-1>; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:56:21 -0700 Received: by cdcexchange.bellind.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BC4F0C.8D72BCC0@cdcexchange.bellind.com>; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:01:39 -0700 Message-ID: From: Rudy Gireyev To: "'Blaz Zupan'" Cc: "'freebsd-isp@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: Mail distribution Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:01:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> > POP3 on this new machine? I simply can't believe that >> > all providers have only one POP3 server. >> Why cant you? > >How about "single point of failure"? Do you really want me to >believe that f.e. AOL has one single POP3 server for all their >thousands (millions?) of mailboxes? Hmmm, you must not have heard the news last week. Microsoft network users could not get their mail ALL DAY LONG. Because Microsoft was upgrading one of their boxes with Windows NT. The upgrade took just over an hour but when they ran FDISK it took over 20 hours to finish (Duhhh). IBM network users also could not retreive their mail for half a day. I wonder why? :-) >> I cant think of how you could keep multiple copies of inboxes in sync. > >Yeah, that's the problem I'm trying to solve :) > >-- >Blaz Zupan, blaz.zupan@medinet.si, http://www.medinet.si/~blaz >Medinet d.o.o., Linhartova 21, 2000 Maribor, Slovenia > From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 11:12:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA29886 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.webspan.net (mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29879 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA02009; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from orion.webspan.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.webspan.net (WEBSPN/970116) with ESMTP id OAA03449; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:11:12 -0400 (EDT) To: Steve cc: Blaz Zupan , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Gary Palmer" Subject: Re: Mail distribution In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:53:24 EDT." Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:11:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3447.861732671@orion.webspan.net> Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve wrote in message ID : > Why dont you have to? How would you avoid the problem of finding > messages you deleted yesterday, in your inbox today simply because > you ended up on a different pop server that day? Because there are other ways to get around the problem :-) (Actually, I've had a LONG debate with my bosses about this issue for something done here, but that's another story). > > 2) Ever heard of a NetApp? The principle is very simple. You put up > > several honkin NFS servers in the back, and as many POP3 server > > boxes as you like in the front, mounting from the NFS > > server. Delivery and other configuration is an excercise for the > > reader. > But Freebsd doesnt have functiona NFS locking does it? or does netapp work > around this somehow? The people who I know definately use this solution (Netcom) don't use FreeBSD (for some weird reason). I believe AOL doesn't use FreeBSD either. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 11:27:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA00923 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00917 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-51.rust.net [206.42.195.151]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05473; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <335D02D0.1607@rust.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:26:24 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Blaine Minazzi CC: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) References: <3.0.1.32.19970420213538.009d6310@sentex.net> <3.0.1.32.19970421062113.0250c100@sentex.net> <335B830D.3D947A59@denverweb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Blaine Minazzi wrote: > > I don't know about canadian law. Here, if a newsgroup carries a number > of illegal images, it really wouldn't matter _what_ the title of the > group was, you might find yourself facing charges. I don't think that a > jury would be as likely to aquit for > illegal images in alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.* as they would on > alt.tv.foo-bar > Whether you are convicted or not, the cost of defending yourself could > be rather high. > If a law enforcement agency wants to put you out of business, they may > seize your equipment as evidence. You get it back AFTER the trial. > Another twist, is they may seize ALL your assets they feel were gained > through illegal activities. ( like they do in drug cases. ) So, you > could find your house, car, bank accounts and equipment all seized. > (owch! Now how are you going to hire an attorney? )The Fourth amendment > has become as effective as toilet paper with that practice. > While someone here is hashing it out in court, their customers go down > the street to the next ISP, and the telco and maybe your upstream still > expect to get paid. Same with office space, etc. You could be bankrupt > and done for before it even makes it to court for trial. > > So, for here, removing ALL binaries ( in the sexually oriented groups at > least.) could show that you were trying to do your part. Since they are > such bandwidth pigs, simply getting rig of all binaries in newsgroups > would be the best solution, IMHO. > > As ISP's, I feel we have a responsibility to try to prohibit criminals > from using our service to conduct thier illegal activities, while > providing our legitimate customers with as much service as possible. > Actually, I am surprised that many ISP's care more about the money than > the fact that we are being _used_ by criminals to help them break the > law. > Hell, why not just let a drug dealer put a little package in your car > for your routine trip across the country to aunt emma's. They put it > there, someone on the other end picks it up, but as long as YOU don't > know whats in it, your not liable? That will get you a room with > striped sunlite in this country. > > Blaine What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. I find it intriguing that there seems to be an assumption as well by many in this mailing list that annything sexual is illegal or even legally suspect. Again in the US, obscene material which is not pornographic is perfectly legal to distribute whether it is known about or not. I would think that the question is "is there a preponderance of actually illegal vs nude or other legitimate material". As for the "drug dealer" junk, I don't understand. To try to fit reality into the analogy you make, If your whole business is sending packages, which you do not have the time to open or examine in detail, do you become liable if someone slips such a package in among the others? Should there be a special case if most of the other packages are Grateful Dead T-shirts and memoribilia? Properly licensed, of course! :-) From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 11:33:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01377 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01372 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-51.rust.net [206.42.195.151]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA06283; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <335D044A.60DC@rust.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:32:42 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Damian Hamill CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net> <3357F448.34A9@rust.net> <335CA624.167EB0E7@cablenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Damian Hamill wrote: > > Sysadmin wrote: > > > > Damian Hamill wrote: > > > > > > > There just isn't enough bandwidth... ever... You wrote this bandwidth quote, right? > > True. As the internet evolves the customer will be using it and the > > bandwidth they buy from you more completely. But will next month's > > debate be over CU-Seeme (sp?), RealVideo, Push technology, or fully > > utilized PPP connections caused by someone's new program to stop long > > transfers during web browsing, so that http can still take place at > > full speed as well? How to forbid, suppress, or eliminate such > > advances in technology as menaces to ISP profits, and yet somehow be > > able to present less services as "better service"? The above was my response, was that not clear? > > I didn't write this, I wrote the "isn't enough bandwidth... ever.." > line. This part confuses me. > > Please make sure you attribute the correct quotes to the correct people. Thought I did, unless this was not addressed to me. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 13:39:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02354 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02347 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17502; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Sysadmin cc: Blaine Minazzi , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <335D02D0.1607@rust.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil > liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, > of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't > see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police > state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. That's right, we live in a country where BBS operators get all of their eqipment siezed because someone managed to download a file from the BBS, that while legal in the state the BBS was in, was illegal where it was downloaded. Totally different situation, guess California isn't part of the United States. Or it all gets seized as evidence, and returned several months later, when the DOJ realizes that it just plain blew it. In one case, the file that caused the whole issue had been uploaded by the investigating officer less than an hour prior to the bust. But we've got protection against abuse of power, now don't we. Anyone that thinks that the government at any level is going to treat ISP's any better than BBS operators needs to examine very closely why they think this way. Depending on how you read it, the Communications Indecency Act could easily be used against ISP's, even for something as simple as news. Remember, the law wasn't drafted by people that actually understood USENET News. Not to mention the fact that what he's describing here is only an expansion of the property seizure laws already in effect in the good old U.S. of A. Read up on it, or at least watch for the 60 minutes episode on the topic. People every day get cash seized simply because it was suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed against the property owner in 90% of property seizure cases, because of insufficient evidence. But does that mean the people get the seized property back? Nope, because the case against the property is not the same as the case against the person, and the property does not have the right of due process. To all the innocent bystanders in this, I'm sorry for venting like this, I'm not a conspiracy nut or an activist of any sort, but anyone who isn't concerned about this hasn't paid attention to how the government pursues things that it thinks are wrong. One of my biggest gripes with the Key Escrow "privacy protection" bill was that circumventing due process only has a penalty if what you do with the keys is illegal. So, as long as they feel good about the results, there will be no penalty. O.K., so we're not in a police state, but this isn't the land of the free anymore. We've given up freedom for security, and there's a rather famous quote on that one. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 14:11:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA05120 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05112 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA25302 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:10:56 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10827 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:06:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:06:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <335D02D0.1607@rust.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil > liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, > of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't > see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police > state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. In the United States it is illegal to distribute child pornography or illegal copies of software. There are numerous cases where store owners or BBS operators in the USA have been jailed for doing this. Now, is an ISP a distributor and thus liable under the law? Or are they merely the operator of a communications channel and therefore exempt from the law like telcos and trucking companies. So far this has not been fully decided, but one thing is for sure. USENET looks a lot more like distributing than beiong a comm channel and that's where the danger lies. Noone can be sure how the courts and the lawmakers will decide this one. But we can assess the risks and since the penalties are pretty severe, I think it makes sense to be conservative in assessing these risks. I don't want to see the entire independent ISP industry wiped out because of a police sweep for child pornography. And the danger of that is very real. There are rumblings and rumors, some of which are coming from people who have contacts inside various police forces. I can't be sure if the rumors are true and I am not a lawyer. But I think it would be wise for every ISP to consult their own lawyers on this and to make whatever moves they think are necessary to stay out of jail. I know a lot of ISP's think it is a catch-22 situation because they wrongly believe that removing any single USENET posting opens them up to charges, but leaving it alone makes them somehow invincible. I don't believe either is true. And since USENET is not intended to be a file transfer mechanism and since the volume of files travelling through USENET is now creating *OPERATIONAL* *DIFFICULTIES* for ISPs, I think it is a wise move to simply get rid of all binary files period regardless of what newsgroup tag is on them and regardless of what their actual or claimed content is. > I would think that the question is "is there a preponderance > of actually illegal vs nude or other legitimate material". One single illegal image is enough to send you to jail. And I haven't even said anything yet about the pirated software which may not send you to jail but will cause a severe hit in the pocketbook. Do you really want the SPA to become the country's largest ISP by virtue of forfeit? > As for the "drug dealer" junk, I don't understand. To try to fit > reality into the analogy you make, If your whole business is sending > packages, which you do not have the time to open or examine in detail, > do you become liable if someone slips such a package in among the > others? You are quite right. But USENET is not about delivering packages. With USENET the packets stop at your news server. And the buck stops there as well. If people can browse your news server looking for illegal porn images to download then you have problems because now you are the content provider every bit as much as the magazine store on the corner. How many magazine stores carry child porn? Why don't they carry it? Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 14:35:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07428 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (blaine@170.denver-001.co.dial-access.att.net [207.147.16.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07420 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from blaine@localhost) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA08141 for isp@freeBSD.org; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:50:52 -0600 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:50:52 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Message-Id: <199704222150.PAA08141@orion.denverweb.net> To: isp@freeBSD.org Sender: owner-isp@freeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Blaine > What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil > liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, > of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't > see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police > state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. You are young man, are you not? Nice to see that idealism. ( me: a grandfather, understanding realities of life, instead of the ideals ) I live in the country that used to be known as the United States of America. And, we do have the constitution and some other laws, that IN THEORY protect us. REALITY, on the other hand is a different matter. If a law enforcement agency feels that you may be violating certian laws, ( rico ) they can, and DO, seize your property BEFORE you are ever convicted of a crime. Hell, they may not even CHARGE you with a crime, and you STILL have to prove that your property was not abtained through the benefit of criminal activity to get the articles back. This is clearly a violation of the 4th amendment to the constitution. Don't believe me? Check it out... > I find it intriguing that there seems to be an assumption as well by > many in this mailing list that annything sexual is illegal or even > legally suspect. Again in the US, obscene material which is not > pornographic is perfectly legal to distribute whether it is known about > or not. I would think that the question is "is there a preponderance > of actually illegal vs nude or other legitimate material". Yes, you are correct. In theory. _I_ know whats illegal, _YOU_ know whats illegal, but if some overzealous gestapo type wants to screw you over for ONE image, you have a BIG problem, even if you are aquited. Did you know that your police record will show that you were CHARGED with ditributing pornography? And it takes divine intervention to get the information removed from police files. > As for the "drug dealer" junk, I don't understand. To try to fit > reality into the analogy you make, If your whole business is sending > packages, which you do not have the time to open or examine in detail, > do you become liable if someone slips such a package in among the > others? Should there be a special case if most of the other packages > are Grateful Dead T-shirts and memoribilia? Properly licensed, of > course! :-) Again, correct in legal theory. The bottom line is this. Do you have the resourses to get in a pissing contest with the local gestapo? If they seize your assets, servers, and other property either as evidence, or using the RICO act, as a business, you are screwed. Your customers are going to be gone by the time you get the equipment back. Personally, I have had freinds screwed by the IRS, the BATF, and Local city government, ( boulder, denver, san antonio. ) Some have been imprisoned for "contemp of court" when they refused to "turn over their OTHER set of books" which NEVER EXSISTED. Others have been charged with felonies for the mere possssion of what COULD HAVE been used to ASSIST in the manufacture of illegal weapons. The culprit tools? A drill press and lathe. NO evidence of ANY illegal weapon ever being contructed, or any attempt to do so. THey beat the charges, but went bankrupt in the process. THey lost everything they had worked all their life for. Another freind charged by the City of boulder for towing a banner over the city. Now, the FAA has complete control over the airspace, and of aircraft operating within that airspace. Yet the city of boulder had don ARRESTED, even AFTER the FAA clained that they had no rights to attempt to regulate air traffic over thier town. He eventually won, but at a cost of personal freedom, and almost a hundred thousand of dollars in legal fees. Another person ( fathers freind) had the IRS pay him a freindly visit at 3:00 AM, Arresting him and his wife in a no knock raid, over a 500 disputed tax deduciton. They were cuffed and arrested, the children were taken into "protective custody" and the older ones grilled about their parents. This is not the USA that our fathers and grandfathers fought for in the great wars only a few years ago. This is 1939 Germany, all over agian. do the words, Ruby Ridge and WACO have ANY meaning to you? There are perfect examples of our civil liberty laws in action. Ralph Weaver finally won his case. He's rich. How exactly does that benefit his dead wife and son again? From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 15:44:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12438 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12433; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA24505; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:44:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White X-Sender: dwhite@localhost Reply-To: Doug White To: Tim Tsai cc: questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help interpreting this tcpdump log In-Reply-To: <19970421053941.63305@shell.futuresouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Tim Tsai wrote: > I am enclosing a tcpdump session that demonstrate a problem we're > seeing. ts is a Livingston terminal server and mail is a FreeBSD 2.2.1R > machine. The problem is that "telnet mail 25" from the terminal server > will show the initial sendmail login banner, but nothing works after > that. It seems that this problem is only showing up if we go through > the terminal server. Any ideas? MTU is set to 1500 on both machines > and they're on the same ethernet segment. Have you tried disabling tcp_extensions in /etc/sysconfig? I didn't think the livingstons had this problem. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 15:47:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12692 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (ppp010-sm2.sirius.com [205.134.231.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12685 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id PAA10193; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:47:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <199704222247.PAA10193@superior.mooseriver.com> Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199704222150.PAA08141@orion.denverweb.net> from Blaine Minazzi at "Apr 22, 97 03:50:52 pm" To: bminazzi@w3page.com (Blaine Minazzi) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: isp@freebsd.org Reply-To: jgrosch@best.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > Blaine >> What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil >> liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, >> of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't >> see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police >> state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. > >You are young man, are you not? Nice to see that idealism. ( me: a >grandfather, understanding realities of life, instead of the ideals ) > [ RANT DELETED ] This is all very interesting but are'nt we drifting pretty far off the topic of this mail-list ? Please, can we keep this discussion on the topic? Thank you. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.1 jgrosch@sirius.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 16:37:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA16425 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.2.144.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16411 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id JAA13493; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:36:52 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:36:51 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Intuitive Design Archive cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: virtual email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Intuitive Design Archive wrote: > Hello all; > > Is there a way to naturally limit users, so that they could send > mail according to their username. I.E. user A who is know in reality as > joe1 has a virtual account joe1@hisdom.com He gets and sends his email > using one of the common emailers (netscape, eudora, whatever) so he has > in his config that his domain is hisdom.com, so he can send email out as > his domain is, which he likes. Now I wonder if there is a way that no > matter what he puts in his config it will only send out as > joe1@hisdom.com. I have not tested this, but POP3 allows POSTing after authentication. If you force your users to use POP3 POSTing instead of SMTP, it might be possible. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 17:31:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20142 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (ernie@spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20136 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:31:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25315 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:31:18 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704230031.KAA25315@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: Methods of keeping current with 2.2 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:31:17 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As this and freebsd-announce are the only FreeBSD mail lists I subcribe to I may have missed articles on how to keep up with patches to the 2.2-RELEASE. I run a ISP with many FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE servers doing various things, and a bunch of customer sites also running 2.2.1-RELEASE. In the past I used 2.1.5, and once a month cron would fire up SUP to download source code updates to the -stable tree, and run a make world on each machine. Now I beleive SUP is no longer really supported, being replaced with cvsup and a somewhat trickier set up involving big Modula-3 libraries etc. I read Jordan's announcement this morning about the daily snaps of 2.2 with interest which prompted me to write this e-mail. My question is what is the most practical method I can use to automate monthly unattended updates of the 2.2 release? - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 17:42:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20958 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20947 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-33.rust.net [206.42.195.133]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA16508; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <335D5AB6.16D9@rust.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:41:26 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" CC: Blaine Minazzi , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > > > What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil > > liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, > > of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't > > see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police > > state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. > > That's right, we live in a country where BBS operators get all of their > eqipment siezed because someone managed to download a file from the BBS, > that while legal in the state the BBS was in, was illegal where it was > downloaded. Totally different situation, guess California isn't part of > the United States. Or it all gets seized as evidence, and returned several > months later, when the DOJ realizes that it just plain blew it. In one > case, the file that caused the whole issue had been uploaded by the > investigating officer less than an hour prior to the bust. But we've got > protection against abuse of power, now don't we. > > Anyone that thinks that the government at any level is going to treat > ISP's any better than BBS operators needs to examine very closely why they > think this way. Depending on how you read it, the Communications > Indecency Act could easily be used against ISP's, even for something as > simple as news. Remember, the law wasn't drafted by people that actually > understood USENET News. > > Not to mention the fact that what he's describing here is only an > expansion of the property seizure laws already in effect in the good old > U.S. of A. Read up on it, or at least watch for the 60 minutes episode on > the topic. People every day get cash seized simply because it was > suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed > against the property owner in 90% of property seizure cases, because of > insufficient evidence. But does that mean the people get the seized > property back? Nope, because the case against the property is not the > same as the case against the person, and the property does not have the > right of due process. > > To all the innocent bystanders in this, I'm sorry for venting like this, > I'm not a conspiracy nut or an activist of any sort, but anyone who isn't > concerned about this hasn't paid attention to how the government pursues > things that it thinks are wrong. One of my biggest gripes with the > Key Escrow "privacy protection" bill was that circumventing due process > only has a penalty if what you do with the keys is illegal. So, as long > as they feel good about the results, there will be no penalty. > > O.K., so we're not in a police state, but this isn't the land of the free > anymore. We've given up freedom for security, and there's a rather famous > quote on that one. Personally I refuse to let my life be run by paranoia, even if I have real enemies. There is one certain sure way to obtain the type of society you claim the United States has become, and that is to loudly announce you to freely surrender your rights, and that you will refuse to exercise them. And encourage others to also fall into the forced lockstep of course! Sign that agreement with the SPA to censor your customers' web pages - never mind that their requirement to modify unwholesome links requires _breaking_ copyright law by republishing other people's copyright protected documents! Maybe kiss the asses of right-wing self-styled christian morality czars and police who mistake them for lawmakers, yep, that'll discourage them, right? Oh, better put a notice on your system allowing you to snoop through everybody's data looking for all that bad stuff, and dump the protections you would otherwise get from the ECPA. After all, the prospect of a few hundred thousand dollars in damage judgments is going to be totally ignored by the local sheriff or police commissioner, ain't it? Sorry, I'll take the possibility of being one of the fraction of a percent of the possible victims of such abuse at law enforcement's hands who actually _do_ get screwed over to the other option of hiding in a burrow. In any case, such hiding probably won't help. The motivation in these cases is not law enforcement, but gathering publicity, votes, and the ability to intimidate, to get people to forget that _they_ are the bosses of the police who work for _them_. If you are a convenient idiot who willingly takes responsibility (in a legal rather than moral sense) for everything in your Usenet archive by selective censorship, all the better victim, who can no longer compare themselves to the backbone provider whose newsservers send the whole shebang. Even the US Supreme Court is uneasy over wholesale civil forfeiture laws, which frankly are _not_ used that much except in the sacred scapegoat drug cases to date... and I can only find encouragement in your using the CDA as an example while it is already on hold and seems to face dim prospects from the Court - which actually does seem to have some understanding of Usenet and Internet concepts, from the questioning. However I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of them shows a marked unwillingness to face the reality of that law's unworkability loudly expresses their wish for an alternate universe in a dissent, of course. But to return to the topic - frankly, I consider keeping a traditional Usenet server with all the news that fits (for the last few days), and keeping the so-called "questionable" newsgroups going and thriving, is about the best public service anyone can do in support of civil liberties. Otherwise, the rest will be nibbled to death by ducks, one by one. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 18:23:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22993 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22988 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19524; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:23:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Sysadmin cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <335D5AB6.16D9@rust.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > > > > On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > > > > > What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil > > > liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, > > > of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't > > > see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police > > > state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. > > O.K., so we're not in a police state, but this isn't the land of the free > > anymore. We've given up freedom for security, and there's a rather famous > > quote on that one. > > Personally I refuse to let my life be run by paranoia, even if I have > real enemies. Good for you. This wasn't meant to sound as a personal attack. I'm just trying to point out that as ethical as your stand may be, you have to accept that push come to shove, you're going to be fighting for your livelyhood with a deck stacked against you. Anyone with your stance that is ready to fight the good fight has made an informed decision. Anyone with your stance that blindly accepts the top paragraph could very well be in for a rude surprize. Personally, I don't think that the small ISP has to worry on a statistical basis. Someone may go after a small ISP once to establish precidence, easier against a company with a smaller legal budget, but after that, it would be more effective to go after the large ISPs and make a few examples. O.K., now I'm sounding paranoid, but my wife had a friend who lost his life, and one of her aquantances lost his business, all in the name of the war on drugs, and neither had ever done, bought, or sold drugs. If the same attitude is used on the war on internet porn, we could all be in serious trouble. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 18:36:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23771 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23707; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bradley@localhost) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA26621; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:35:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Bradley Dunn X-Sender: bradley@ns2.harborcom.net To: Michael Smith cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: <199704210703.QAA08288@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > "So what" is that the new Livingston code is Radius-2 compliant, and has > lots of nice features. What is "Radius-2 compliant"? AFAIK the only compliance that matters is RFC2138. The code at ftp://ftp.merit.edu/radius/releases/radius.23c.basic.tar.gz is free and is nearly compliant. (Actually the Livingston code is not compliant with the RFC either because they used port 1645 when it was already assigned.) The new features of the Livingston code are basically superficial junk like user menus and prefix/suffix support. pbd -- Why can't you be a non-conformist like everyone else? From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 18:38:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23884 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Fe3.rust.net (Fe3.rust.net [204.157.12.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23879 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from danlaw1 (liv-33.rust.net [206.42.195.133]) by Fe3.rust.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA22218; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <335D67D5.583D@rust.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:37:25 -0400 From: Sysadmin Reply-To: danlaw@rust.net Organization: Danlaw, Incorporated X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Dillon CC: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael Dillon wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > > > What country is this you live in? In the United States, we have civil > > liberty laws prohibiting such behaviour by law enforcement officials, > > of course I am not aware of the situation where you live, but I don't > > see why Usenet should be governed based on the activities of a police > > state where a distributor is treated as a publisher of information. > > In the United States it is illegal to distribute child pornography or > illegal copies of software. There are numerous cases where store owners or > BBS operators in the USA have been jailed for doing this. Now, is an ISP a > distributor and thus liable under the law? Or are they merely the operator > of a communications channel and therefore exempt from the law like telcos > and trucking companies. So far this has not been fully decided, but one > thing is for sure. USENET looks a lot more like distributing than beiong a > comm channel and that's where the danger lies. Noone can be sure how the > courts and the lawmakers will decide this one. But we can assess the risks > and since the penalties are pretty severe, I think it makes sense to be > conservative in assessing these risks. I don't want to see the entire > independent ISP industry wiped out because of a police sweep for child > pornography. And the danger of that is very real. There are rumblings and > rumors, some of which are coming from people who have contacts inside > various police forces. Frankly, I doubt that there has been any significant percentage of child pornography ever distributed on Usenet - even in the groups that are specifically designated for that and nothing else. Straw man. I don't think there has been *any* case where a person has been jailed for distributing illegal copies of software - this is SPA fearmongering, though I have heard of some fines. No, _distributors_ of documents, like bookstores, are _not_ liable as a rule - _publishers_ are. And the fact is the legal precedents already protect ISP's against liability for uncensored Usenet distribution (though not the content-selected kind, apparently). The unsupported report of "rumblings and rumors" doesn't even deserve an answer. On this you base the conclusion that the "Entire Independent [as opposed to?] ISP industry" will be "wiped out"? That "the danger of this is very real?" Some great secret police god department that rules all the others is going to somehow organize them for a "sweep"? Snigger. Black heliocopters indeed. > I can't be sure if the rumors are true and I am not a lawyer. But I think > it would be wise for every ISP to consult their own lawyers on this and to > make whatever moves they think are necessary to stay out of jail. I know a > lot of ISP's think it is a catch-22 situation because they wrongly believe > that removing any single USENET posting opens them up to charges, but > leaving it alone makes them somehow invincible. I don't believe either is > true. Because...? Your belief, evedently based on little other than speculation, is what the ISP world should go by? I did see my lawyer. And she told me exactly what you disbelieve to be the case. But I would advise you to not only disbelieve in rumors from such sources but even to take their official announcements with a ton of salt. > And since USENET is not intended to be a file transfer mechanism and Usenet is nothing _but_ a file transfer system. Most groups intended for text files. > since the volume of files travelling through USENET is now creating > *OPERATIONAL* *DIFFICULTIES* for ISPs, I think it is a wise move to simply > get rid of all binary files period regardless of what newsgroup tag is on > them and regardless of what their actual or claimed content is. Ah, now we get to the _real_ motivation. Hey, everyone! Someone's afraid he'll lose customers unless he can persuade most of his competitors to drop the same inconvenient-to-provide but popular service! > > I would think that the question is "is there a preponderance > > of actually illegal vs nude or other legitimate material". > > One single illegal image is enough to send you to jail. And I haven't even > said anything yet about the pirated software which may not send you to > jail but will cause a severe hit in the pocketbook. Do you really want the > SPA to become the country's largest ISP by virtue of forfeit? "One illegal image is enough to send you to jail?" Maybe once, twice, among many tens of thousands of ISPs and BBSes? Have you ever heard of the word "anomaly"? You really have got to be freaking joking... (wait a minute, to people troll in mailing lists?) The SPA doesn't get _anywhere_ in courts. They rule by pure unfounded threat, misinformation, and press release bluster. > > > As for the "drug dealer" junk, I don't understand. To try to fit > > reality into the analogy you make, If your whole business is sending > > packages, which you do not have the time to open or examine in detail, > > do you become liable if someone slips such a package in among the > > others? > > You are quite right. But USENET is not about delivering packages. With > USENET the packets stop at your news server. And the buck stops there as > well. If people can browse your news server looking for illegal porn > images to download then you have problems because now you are the content > provider every bit as much as the magazine store on the corner. How many > magazine stores carry child porn? Why don't they carry it? Well, if they stopped at your server, they stopped at your newsfeed ISP's too. And they had to start up again and be asked for by someone to be read. And the simple fact is the majority of the stuff, including the majority of the fraction of Usenet that are binaries and the fraction of those that are images and the fraction of those that are erotic images, are lawful. Perhaps disgusting, but mostly lawful. There is one legal problem I do see: The Federal Sherman Anti-trust Act clearly prohibits businesses and their agents, such as ISPs, from conspiring or attempting to conspire with others in order to limit competition, _not_ limited to fixing prices but also as to restricting the availability of services. Want to talk (literally) million-dollar fines? Want to talk triple damages? Try to threaten or otherwise persuade competing ISPs into dropping the parts of Usenet you don't want your customers to be able to get. Remember persons other than the Government's employees can file such suits. That's a more real threat than non-functioning laws or overofficious constables (not a threat from me, but a method of doing business the aforesaid consulted lawyer warned me strongly against). From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 19:09:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA25571 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (winter@sasami.jurai.net [207.172.25.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA25559; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA28922; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970420204545.008f9a20@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Kevin P. Neal wrote: > I would hate to see 50,000 line long /etc/passwd files copied everywhere. Its not pretty. IMHO the Unix UID/GID model breaks down around 20k users. We've got 200k users in an email system and we're moving to code that stores username/password entries in a CDB map instead of a password file. /* Matthew N. Dodd | A memory retaining a love you had for life winter@jurai.net | As cruel as it seems nothing ever seems to http://www.jurai.net/~winter | go right - FLA M 3.1:53 */ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 19:53:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28511 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gds.de (ns.gds.de [194.77.222.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28503 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.plusline.de (scully.lgt-bank.com [194.231.79.16]) by gds.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA28081 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:53:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970423045226.006dd104@ns.gds.de> X-Sender: richard@ns.gds.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:52:26 +0200 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Richard Gresek Subject: Tacacs+ on FBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hallo, does anybody have tacacs binaries for FreeBSD 3.0 or FBSD 2.2? I have tried to compile the sources from ftp://ftp.navya.com but did not succeed (The sources compiled well but the binary does not seem to be running perfectly. Or are there other sources that can be compiled on FreeBSD? Thanks in advance Richard Gresek #======================================================= # # ==============> D P N <============== # =======> Deutsches Provider Network <========= # # Richard Gresek Internet PoP fuer # c/o Plus.Line -> Frankfurt # Oppenheimer Landstr. 55 -> Stuttgart # D-60596 Frankfurt/M. -> Westerwald # Tel.: +49 69 61991275 # Fax: +49 69 610238 http://www.plusline.de #======================================================= From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 19:55:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28638 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:55:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA28607; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from msmith@localhost) by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) id MAA18881; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:25:14 +0930 (CST) From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199704230255.MAA18881@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Need a common passwd file among machines In-Reply-To: from Bradley Dunn at "Apr 22, 97 09:35:40 pm" To: bradley@dunn.org (Bradley Dunn) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:25:14 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bradley Dunn stands accused of saying: > On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Michael Smith wrote: > > > "So what" is that the new Livingston code is Radius-2 compliant, and has > > lots of nice features. > > What is "Radius-2 compliant"? AFAIK the only compliance that matters is > RFC2138. The code at > ftp://ftp.merit.edu/radius/releases/radius.23c.basic.tar.gz > is free and is nearly compliant. (Actually the Livingston code is not > compliant with the RFC either because they used port 1645 when it was > already assigned.) I'll grant that the Merit server (which amazingly I only just ran into) looks worthwhile. > The new features of the Livingston code are basically superficial junk > like user menus and prefix/suffix support. I was most interested in the hooks that they were claiming for things like counted user access and backending for accounting databases. I haven't studied the Merit server for long enough to know if it covers this already. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@gsoft.com.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control. (ph) +61-8-8267-3493 [[ ]] Unix hardware collector. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 20:35:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01380 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01374 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA32512 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:35:35 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA14186 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:30:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:30:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <335D67D5.583D@rust.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Sysadmin wrote: > Frankly, I doubt that there has been any significant percentage of child > pornography ever distributed on Usenet - even in the groups that are > specifically designated for that and nothing else. Straw man. Two years ago I wondered whether this stuff really existed so I connected to an ISP that offered binaries (my ISP did not carry them at all) and had a look. Within an hour I was able to discover pictures of 9-year-old girls having intercourse with an adult male penis inside them. And a couple of pictures of a thre-year old girl sucking a male penis. And a picture of a boy and a girl about 10-11 years old having intercourse. It may not be there every day and it may not be as easy to find in the flood of binary postings, but I highly doubt that it has disappeared from USENET. For instance there is the website operator that was just arrested for running a service that auto-decodes USENET binaries and makes them available via HTTP. > I don't think there has been *any* case where a person has been jailed > for distributing illegal copies of software - this is SPA fearmongering, > though I have heard of some fines. Fines are nothing to sneeze at. They can put you out of business just as fast as getting arrested. > No, _distributors_ of documents, like bookstores, are _not_ liable as a > rule - _publishers_ are. If possession of cild porn is a felony in the USA then how do bookstores get an exemption from that law? > And the fact is the legal > precedents already protect ISP's against liability for uncensored Usenet > distribution (though not the content-selected kind, apparently). Bull! The problem is that there are *NO* legal precedents one way or the other. And there are people who are currently preparing for court cases that they hope *WILL* set precedents that will make ISP's liable. > The unsupported report of "rumblings and rumors" doesn't even deserve an > answer. Have you read the material at http://www.ocaf.org ? Do you think they are going to do their work out in the open? It is a fact that they are "educating" police forces in several parts of the country and it is a fact that some people inside the police forces have let it be known that investigations are underway, either inadvertently or by telling friends at local ISP's. Obviously, none of the people involved are willing to have their names made public. You don't have to believe me and you don't have to do a darn thing. But if you care about minimizing your risk then you will be asking your lawyer about the actual state of the laws in your area and what you could do to minimze your risk. If your lawyer doesn't appear to be familiar with the relevant law, then search out a new lawyer. Don't just take my word for it. > On this you base the conclusion that the "Entire Independent > [as opposed to?] ISP industry" will be "wiped out"? That "the danger of > this is very real?" There are a lot of people out there, possibly telco employees, possibly fundamentalists, who *WOULD* stoop to dirty tricks to get ISP's charged. The courts have shown that it doesn't matter if the material was planted by the police themselves. If you possess and distribute it, you are guilty. Now it would only take two or three police raids across the country in the space of a week or two and the national media would be all over this thing. Yes it *COULD* have a decidedly negative impact on the independent ISP industry if the media paints everyone with the same black brush while pointing out that the newsgroups in question are not listed on AOL's service. > Some great secret police god department that rules > all the others is going to somehow organize them for a "sweep"? Snigger. The FBI organizes this sort of thing with local police departments all the time. Since the child porn is being distributed across state lines the FBI has been investigating this subject for years and trying to figure out what to do and what will win in court. > Because...? Your belief, evedently based on little other than > speculation, is what the ISP world should go by? > > I did see my lawyer. And she told me exactly what you disbelieve to be > the case. Fine. If you trust the lawyer and she explained the relevant caselaw to you, then that's good. It also gives you a leg to stand on if you ever do go to court because you acted as a reasonable and prudent citizen would. But I still think a second legal opinion would be a darn good idea. > > And since USENET is not intended to be a file transfer mechanism and > > Usenet is nothing _but_ a file transfer system. Most groups intended > for text files. USENET is *NOT* a file transfer system. It is a message transfer system that uses a message format based on RFC-822 email format. There is nothing in the standards that requires the messages to be individual text files. And if you examine a binaries posting you will see that it contains an encoded file encapsulated in several messages. But if you examine a normal discussion message you will find no evidence of encapsulation or special encodings. Courts do take these things into account, you know. > Ah, now we get to the _real_ motivation. Hey, everyone! Someone's > afraid he'll lose customers unless he can persuade most of his > competitors to drop the same inconvenient-to-provide but popular > service! I haven't been an ISP owner for almost a year and a half now. I built up my ISP from scratch starting in August 1994 with a policy of no alt.binaries.* and no alt.sex.* and it never hurt the business. We had a steady stream of new customers coming in from other ISP's in town and we never lost any to other local ISP's. We know that because there were few lost customers and we asked each one why they left. Most moved out of town. And I will shortly be working for a backbone network provider that will be selling T1's to ISP's and providing a full newsfeed. However we will only support NNTP peering and will not operate a news spool. Messages will flow into our news server and be buffered only as long as it takes to forward them to all NNTP peers. No-one will know what is in the buffers or have any record of what flows through the system. > You really have got to be freaking joking... (wait a minute, to people > troll in mailing lists?) The SPA doesn't get _anywhere_ in courts. > They rule by pure unfounded threat, misinformation, and press release > bluster. I don't know enough about the US situation to answer this. I did have some discussions with some EFF people who are planning to meet with the SPA and I did point out to them how ISP services actually work. I'm not sure whether they agreed with me but I did point out that ISP's rent website storage space like landlords rent office space and we can't be held responsible for what our tenants do with the space. But I'm not so confident about USENET. > Well, if they stopped at your server, they stopped at your newsfeed > ISP's too. That's not how a dedicated NNTP newsfeed server works. Whether there is some INN hackery to avoid spooling and expiry or whether you run specialized NNTP perring software, the messages do not stop at the core newsfeed servers. > The Federal Sherman Anti-trust Act clearly prohibits businesses and > their agents, such as ISPs, from conspiring or attempting to conspire > with others in order to limit competition, _not_ limited to fixing > prices but also as to restricting the availability of services. > > Want to talk (literally) million-dollar fines? Want to talk triple > damages? Try to threaten or otherwise persuade competing ISPs into > dropping the parts of Usenet you don't want your customers to be able to > get. Remember persons other than the Government's employees can file > such suits. That's a more real threat than non-functioning laws or > overofficious constables (not a threat from me, but a method of doing > business the aforesaid consulted lawyer warned me strongly against). You'll note that no-one has filed suit against Richard Depew of ARRM fame. Nor has anyone filed suit against Paul Vixie for his spam-blocking work. In fact, I don't think you can charge "individuals" under the Sherman act, especially not individuals who are not engaged in the business in question. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 20:59:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02557 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02547 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id XAA15845; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:00:16 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma015840; Wed Apr 23 04:00:15 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970422224655.00c32810@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:46:57 -0500 To: Blaz Zupan From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: Mail distribution Cc: shovey@buffnet.net (Steve), freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:57 PM 4/22/97 +0200, Blaz Zupan wrote: >> > POP3 on this new machine? I simply can't believe that >> > all providers have only one POP3 server. >> Why cant you? > >How about "single point of failure"? Do you really want me to >believe that f.e. AOL has one single POP3 server for all their >thousands (millions?) of mailboxes? But do they have all the same data? Do at least 2 servers have the same data, not necessarily all of it, but there is at least one redundant server for each account? >> I cant think of how you could keep multiple copies of inboxes in sync. > >Yeah, that's the problem I'm trying to solve :) The most important part is the messages, correct? Then every time there is a write to the mail spool, one should to a backup. This is not reasonable. Downtime is not a problem with secondary MX handles that can queue mail, so the problem is to have a backup, but the data is too dynamic. A RAID array would be the best solution, preferably level 5, but level 1 gives you 2 mirrored drives and level 4 could be used, but is not as efficient. Of couse in the case of a RAID array, "What if the controller shorts out the drives and you cannot recover?" This is just a "what if" that could go on. "What if you keep your backup tapes off site, but the building goes up in smoke?" You are going to have a bad day/week, but at least you still had a very good solution to the problem and hopefully good business insurance. ;-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 21:11:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA03308 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03299 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id XAA17239; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:13:04 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma017206; Wed Apr 23 04:12:56 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970422225937.00c32a6c@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:59:38 -0500 To: Rudy Gireyev From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: RE: Mail distribution Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:01 AM 4/22/97 -0700, Rudy Gireyev wrote: >Hmmm, you must not have heard the news last week. >Microsoft network users could not get their mail >ALL DAY LONG. Because Microsoft was upgrading >one of their boxes with Windows NT. The upgrade >took just over an hour but when they ran FDISK >it took over 20 hours to finish (Duhhh). >IBM network users also could not retreive their >mail for half a day. I wonder why? :-) Considering the company, they *should* have had a system ready to go, arrange the shutdown period, transfer the data to the new server, and be done with it. Get burned by upgrading a few times like this and you will learn. Last Thursday AOL was unreachable for a long time (approx 10-11am to 5pm CDT) due to problems with Sprint and ANS, which to me looked like a major meltdown i.e. no route to many hosts and no DNS for either sprint.net or aol.com (and others). I don't know the skinny, but I could not hit any number of nameservers that connect via Sprint. Turn back the clock to Labor Day, the year before last. Over 4 days (Fri-Mon) went by and AOL had no mail, period. Never saw anything in the news about it, unlike the time they had problems last fall. Always best to have contingencies, but even then... Still there are times when it's a planning error. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 22:01:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA06208 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from execulink.com (root@mail.execulink.com [207.216.160.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06203 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from empey (pc-531.on.rogers.wave.ca [24.112.48.46]) by execulink.com (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA22327 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Spooler by empey (Mercury/32 1.22); 23 Apr 97 00:59:36 +0500 Received: from spooler by integral.on.ca (Mercury/32 1.23); 23 Apr 97 00:58:54 +0500 From: "David Empey" Organization: Integral Communications To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:58:24 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: advice on machone choice for servers Reply-to: empey@integral.on.ca Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-ID: Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings: I'm hoping to pick the brains of some more experienced freeBSD users. I'd like to set up a mail server (approx. 250 messages per day at present) and a web server (100 hits a day approx., rarely more than 2 at the same time) on an older 486/66 with 8MB RAM under freeBSD. Is this combination likely to fly? Any advice welcome, with thanks. ___________________________________________________________ David Empey mailto: empey@integral.on.ca homepage: http://www.integral.on.ca/empey/ 604-185 Berkshire Drive, London, Ontario, Canada, N6J 3R6 (519)-474-0296 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Apr 22 23:09:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA09822 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09812 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA01603; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:09:47 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Dillon cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:30:44 PDT." Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:09:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1601.861775786@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ummm. No offense, but this has turned into an entire meta-discussion, and at this point (perhaps long before it in fact :) it's generally considered reasonable to take it into a smaller forum, like a private cc list. I'm not saying that the legal issues raised here are not germain to ISPs the world over, I'm simply saying that the process of defining the problem is consuming so much bandwidth that at this point, I think the cost/benefit ratio has passed below what's generally considered reasonable in a mailing list supposedly dedicated to FreeBSD-specific issues in the ISP market. I also think that this is more a failure in classification than of communication, and I'm not trying to "gag" anyone's discussion of child pornography and its applicability (or lack thereof) to the business of Internet Service Provision today. I simply think it should go into a different, more appropriately targeted forum - say "isp-content-issues@isp-alliance.net" or something suitably self- descriptive. Why *don't* ISPs have their own industry-wide or region-wide mailing lists to discuss entirely architecture-and-OS-neutral topics like this, for that matter? The very existance of this discussion here would seem to point up a distressing lack of infrastructure for this. Wake up and organize yourselves, guys (and gals)! You hardly need to hijack a FreeBSD mailing list in order to have this kind of discussion, and creating a more appropriate ISP communications forum with all the more-than-ample resources at your command would be a proposal certain to receive my whole and enthusiastic blessing! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 00:51:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA14292 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14284 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 00:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA08506; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:49:52 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199704230749.JAA08506@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Methods of keeping current with 2.2 In-Reply-To: <199704230031.KAA25315@spooky.eis.net.au> from Ernie Elu at "Apr 23, 97 10:31:17 am" To: ernie@spooky.eis.net.au (Ernie Elu) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:49:52 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > In the past I used 2.1.5, and once a month cron would fire up SUP to download > source code updates to the -stable tree, and run a make world on each machine. > > Now I beleive SUP is no longer really supported, being replaced with cvsup > and a somewhat trickier set up involving big Modula-3 libraries etc. > I read Jordan's announcement this morning about the daily snaps of 2.2 with > interest which prompted me to write this e-mail. > > My question is what is the most practical method I can use to automate > monthly unattended updates of the 2.2 release? > I'd say use cvsup. If you don't want to hassle with the modula-3 libs, use the one in ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup/cvsup-bin-14.1.1.tar.gz that is statically linked. In the tar file there is also a program that convert a supfile to cvsup config file. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 01:12:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA15411 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA15406 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA04498 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:12:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA16558 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:07:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <1601.861775786@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > descriptive. Why *don't* ISPs have their own industry-wide or > region-wide mailing lists to discuss entirely > architecture-and-OS-neutral topics like this, for that matter? The Send a messages reading subscribe to the address inet-access@earth.com and you will find what you seek. For some reason the discussion on this topic fizzled out a few days ago there. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 02:44:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA19691 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (mailrelay1.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA19681 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA20124; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:43:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19970423104300.39417@pavilion.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:43:00 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: advice on machone choice for servers References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: ; from David Empey on Wed, Apr 23, 1997 at 12:58:24AM +0500 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Apr 23, 1997 at 12:58:24AM +0500, David Empey wrote: > Greetings: > > I'm hoping to pick the brains of some more experienced freeBSD users. > I'd like to set up a mail server (approx. 250 messages per day at > present) and a web server (100 hits a day approx., rarely more than 2 > at the same time) on an older 486/66 with 8MB RAM under freeBSD. Is > this combination likely to fly? Any advice welcome, with thanks. > I don't see why not. A friend of mine is running X windows, a web server and Netscape 3 on his. It chunters a bit, but does the trick. 250 messages/day is approx 10 per hour. 100 hits per day is approx 4 per hour. Easy life :) Joe -- Josef Karthauser Technical Manager Email: joe@pavilion.net Pavilion Internet plc. [Tel: +44 1273 607072 Fax: +44 1273 607073] From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 02:54:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA20237 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20230 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bsdisp@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id MAA02640; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:45:59 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199704230945.MAA02640@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: Methods of keeping current with 2.2 In-Reply-To: <199704230749.JAA08506@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> from John Hay at "Apr 23, 97 09:49:52 am" To: jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (John Hay) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:45:59 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: ernie@spooky.eis.net.au, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > and a somewhat trickier set up involving big Modula-3 libraries etc. > > > > My question is what is the most practical method I can use to automate > > monthly unattended updates of the 2.2 release? > I'd say use cvsup. If you don't want to hassle with the modula-3 libs, > use the one in ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup/cvsup-bin-14.1.1.tar.gz that that's right. the cvsup is still superrior for the task, far more better than sup ever could be... and hard to set up? either the said binary, or cd /usr/ports/net/cvsup make all install and there you go after a while. what comes to the cvsupfile, well, it can not be that hard. once you've been assimilated to cvsup you dont want to drop it. mickey From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 04:25:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA24406 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.MCESTATE.COM (mail.MCESTATE.COM [207.211.200.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA24398 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by mail.MCESTATE.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA13675 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:25:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ISP Terminal Server Remote Site Requirements Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, I was wondering what else would be needed to do a FreeBSD based terminal server that does it authenicitation with a actual FreeBSD based server over the network besides the following: 1) FreeBSD box with Cyclades Serial Ports and modems, will the box alone be able to support ISDN or USR X2 modems assuming I had a ISDN PRI coming in and will there be support for the PRI? I heard for X2 that more than the modems is needed but also their server is needed? 2) Daniel O'Callaghan's terminal server kit for FreeBSD 3) A router which I can use either a Cisco or ETinc's syncronous card on a FreeBSD box. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 05:16:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA26923 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.vis.net.uk [194.207.134.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26918 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bagpuss.visint.co.uk (bagpuss.vis.net.uk [194.207.134.1]) by bagpuss.visint.co.uk (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09434; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:24:28 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:24:28 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Roome To: Josef Karthauser cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: advice on machone choice for servers In-Reply-To: <19970423104300.39417@pavilion.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Josef Karthauser wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 1997 at 12:58:24AM +0500, David Empey wrote: > > Greetings: > > > > I'm hoping to pick the brains of some more experienced freeBSD users. > > I'd like to set up a mail server (approx. 250 messages per day at > > present) and a web server (100 hits a day approx., rarely more than 2 > > at the same time) on an older 486/66 with 8MB RAM under freeBSD. Is > > this combination likely to fly? Any advice welcome, with thanks. > > > > I don't see why not. A friend of mine is running X windows, a web server > and Netscape 3 on his. It chunters a bit, but does the trick. > > 250 messages/day is approx 10 per hour. 100 hits per day is approx 4 > per hour. Easy life :) So why not try and get an even older machine, you could probably get a 33MHz one for about half the price or less of a 66, and losing a bit of performance (quite a lot actually!) might be worth it, well, you could buy more memory for the slower machine or more disk, or a decent tape drive. If I was going to buy a bottom end machine, I'd be more concerned about backup and memory rather than processor, especially for something which is going to get no traffic. Alternatively, you might end up with what happened here, we had a 486dx66 as our internal web server. (with less traffic than you're asking your machine to handle). Now, since it got set up nicely it got used lots, then more, then more. etc. etc. (you get the idea?), hence it's now a dual processor p133. Such is life =) Perhaps it's worth worrying about expansion after all. -- Steve Roome Technical Systems Manager, Vision Interactive Ltd. E: steve@visint.co.uk M: +44 (0) 976 241 342 T: +44 (0) 117 973 0597 F: +44 (0) 117 923 8522 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 06:00:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA28528 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from destiny.waverider.co.uk (destiny.waverider.co.uk [194.207.28.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28515 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zephania.waverider.net.uk (zephania.waverider.net.uk [194.207.28.99]) by destiny.waverider.co.uk (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA01522 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:56:39 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970423135038.0081cbd0@waverider.net.uk> X-Sender: andyc@waverider.net.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:50:38 +0100 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Andy Cowan Subject: Re: advice on machone choice for servers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 00:58 23/04/97 +0500, you wrote: >Greetings: > >I'm hoping to pick the brains of some more experienced freeBSD users. >I'd like to set up a mail server (approx. 250 messages per day at >present) and a web server (100 hits a day approx., rarely more than 2 >at the same time) on an older 486/66 with 8MB RAM under freeBSD. Is >this combination likely to fly? Any advice welcome, with thanks. > Absolutley. We have a 486-50 here with 8Mb doing more than that without any real problems. Handling around 1000 mail messages a day, lightly loaded web server and secondary DNS for around 70 domains. Easy :-) Andy Andy Cowan Tel: 01564 795888 Technical Director Fax: 01564 795177 Wave Rider Internet plc http://www.waverider.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 09:56:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09856 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09846 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA00721; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:52:34 -0700 (PDT) To: Michael Dillon cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:07:36 PDT." Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:52:33 -0700 Message-ID: <719.861814353@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Send a messages reading > > subscribe > > to the address inet-access@earth.com and you will find what you seek. > For some reason the discussion on this topic fizzled out a few days ago > there. I'm assuming that this advice is directed at the various ISPs on this list, and that subscribership to this list is open? Cool. (I, on the other hand, am more likely to go pee on a high voltage power line than I am to subscribe to this list - I'm not an ISP, I'm just here to answer FreeBSD related ISP questions when I can :). And perhaps the topic fizzled over there because the subscribers to that list have a bit more sense, and know when to stop beating their dead horses. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 12:33:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18723 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA18712 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA15379 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:33:14 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA22294 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:28:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <719.861814353@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > (I, on the > other hand, am more likely to go pee on a high voltage power line Can I watch? ;-D > And perhaps the topic fizzled over there because the subscribers to > that list have a bit more sense, and know when to stop beating their > dead horses. :) Nahhh... It's more fun beating on NT than on USENET :-) Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 13:12:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20779 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20772 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id VAA23632; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:12:05 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id UAA28640; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:46:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA22755; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:55:47 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970423134302.006fc1b4@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:43:02 +0100 To: Blaz Zupan , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: Mail distribution Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 16:10 22/04/97 +0200, Blaz Zupan wrote: >One topic that I don't think was covered here is mail >distribution. How do you guys distribute mail to different >servers? Let's say you have two servers and one of them >goes down. How would I redirect all mail handling to >this second machine? ... If your mail server goes down and you have a standby, the obvious thing to do it to change your nameserver(s) to point to the replacement machine... obviously you use a virtual machine name (eg mail@medinet.si) Rob. -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 13:12:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20824 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20766 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id VAA23623; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:12:01 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id UAA28655; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:46:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA22813; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:36:13 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970423142324.007084e0@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:23:24 +0100 To: empey@integral.on.ca, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: advice on machone choice for servers Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 00:58 23/04/97 +0500, David Empey wrote: >I'd like to set up a mail server (approx. 250 messages per day at >present) and a web server (100 hits a day approx., rarely more than 2 >at the same time) on an older 486/66 with 8MB RAM under freeBSD. Is >this combination likely to fly? Any advice welcome, with thanks. We have this exact setup, with almost identical loads on a 486-33. Works perfectly. :) Robin. -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 13:12:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA20858 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20807 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id VAA23659; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:12:19 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id UAA28648; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:46:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA22793; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:20:52 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970423140806.00705a0c@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:08:06 +0100 To: Michael Dillon , isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 14:06 22/04/97 -0700, Michael Dillon wrote: >... Now, is an ISP a >distributor and thus liable under the law? Or are they merely the operator >of a communications channel and therefore exempt from the law like telcos >and trucking companies. So far this has not been fully decided, but one >thing is for sure. USENET looks a lot more like distributing than beiong a >comm channel and that's where the danger lies... Well a trucker has the good in their possession until it is finally delivered, surely this is the same for ISPs. Technically there is no distinction in the UK in the case of drugs, for example. It is however, a case of "natural justice". I guess there are problems with some of the a.b.p.e groups in the same way there would be if a trucker was distributing packages marked "Crack Cocaine, please handle carefully". Robin. -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 13:14:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA21000 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20995 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id VAA23866; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:13:57 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id UAA28643; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:46:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA22776; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:07:59 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970423135513.0070a910@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:55:13 +0100 To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , Sysadmin From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) Cc: Blaine Minazzi , isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:38 22/04/97 -0700, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: >.... People every day get cash seized simply because it was >suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed >against the property owner in 90% of property seizure cases, because of >insufficient evidence. But does that mean the people get the seized >property back? Nope, because the case against the property is not the >same as the case against the person, and the property does not have the >right of due process... I've never heard of anything so ludicrous... surely this is contrary to the US Consitution/Bill of Rights. If it isn't then it's legalised theft. Robin. -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 13:40:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22159 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mojo.calyx.net (nick@mojo.calyx.net [208.132.136.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22150 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nick@localhost) by mojo.calyx.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA16220 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:41:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Nick Merrill To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Civil Forfeiture: (was: How many customers read news) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970423135513.0070a910@wrcmail> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Robin Melville wrote: > >.... People every day get cash seized simply because it was > >suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed > > I've never heard of anything so ludicrous... surely this is contrary to the > US Consitution/Bill of Rights. If it isn't then it's legalised theft. Robin - it's true, and don't start turning this into an american-bashing session because it's based in English common law :D Actually for anyone who wants to know more about civil forfeiture, you can read all about it, with first hand accounts at: http://www.fear.org Regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nicholas Merrill 24 Hour pager: 212-381-0500 Voice: 212-292-7325 President / CEO http://www.calyx.net Fax : 212-292-7313 Calyx Internet Access 271 E. 10th St. #100 NYC 10009 Email: nick@calyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 13:52:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22687 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.denverweb.net (root@176.denver-003.co.dial-access.att.net [207.147.18.176]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22682 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion (blaine@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.denverweb.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10966; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:10:38 -0600 Message-ID: <335E7ACE.5E39F6BD@denverweb.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:10:38 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi Organization: What, me organized? X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin Melville CC: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" , Sysadmin , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) References: <1.5.4.32.19970423135513.0070a910@wrcmail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robin Melville wrote: > > At 13:38 22/04/97 -0700, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > >.... People every day get cash seized simply because it was > >suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed > >against the property owner in 90% of property seizure cases, because of > >insufficient evidence. But does that mean the people get the seized > >property back? Nope, because the case against the property is not the > >same as the case against the person, and the property does not have the > >right of due process... > > I've never heard of anything so ludicrous... surely this is contrary to the > US Consitution/Bill of Rights. If it isn't then it's legalised theft. Yep. It is in direct violation of the 4th amendment, and it happens all the time. Why do you think were talking about the issue. If the government wants to f*&k you over, you are screwed. They mostly do it in the name of "drug enforcement", for now anyway. When they turn their attention to ISP's because of groups like OCAF or whatever, we can become just as big a targets. That, and the bandwidth waste, is why I don't want a damn thing to do with binaries on usenet. Just not worth it, IMHO. The government has shafted BBS operators, and some ISP's, over just a few illegal images. Yet some say, it can't or won't, happen to me. For whatever reason, these people seem to think that they are either; a: Big enough to get into a pissing contest with the federales. b: Immune, and that our US constitution is still intact. Both views are based in some form of warped reality, IMO. Even the smallest little piss ant township, and local sherriff, could shut you down with a seizure of your equipment as evidence. Some judges and law enforcement agencies don't care about the constitution. They can seize, then delay, and by the time you get it back, IF you get it back, you have no customers anyway. If there is anyone out there who does not believe that things have gotten this bad in the US, I suggest you research it a bit. You will be amazed/shocked/depressed. Usenet, im my opinion, will become the biggest nightmare for ISP's, if they continue to ignore the warning signs. Until we have a clear cut ruling or law that would make us immune, you store these things at your own peril. This thread is starting to get stale, and I apologize for my part in the long disscussions here. Many of the "lurkers" on the group might have recieved some food for thought. As for the suggestions that we take it to private CC mail... Well, at least in this group, there is still freedom to talk about topics that are relevant to ISP's running FreeBSD. This is one such topic, IMHO. ( Besides, I have seen longer threads... Remember the FreeBSD vs. Dedicated Router stuff??? ) Well, I am not going to rant anymore. if someone is not persuaded, nothing short of striped sunlight will likely change their mind anyway. ( sigh. ) Y'all have a good week. Blaine From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 13:56:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22855 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22849 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eddie ([206.62.254.27]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13214; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:59:27 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <335E7434.2AB0@eaznet.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:42:28 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin Melville CC: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) References: <1.5.4.32.19970423135513.0070a910@wrcmail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robin Melville wrote: > > At 13:38 22/04/97 -0700, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > >.... People every day get cash seized simply because it was > >suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed > >against the property owner in 90% of property seizure cases, because of > >insufficient evidence. But does that mean the people get the seized > >property back? Nope, because the case against the property is not the > >same as the case against the person, and the property does not have the > >right of due process... > > I've never heard of anything so ludicrous... surely this is contrary to the > US Consitution/Bill of Rights. If it isn't then it's legalised theft. I would think the same thing. However, I was watching Nightline (or one of those) a couple of weeks ago and they did a story on Lousiana Highway Patrol (I believe) doing just that. They were pulling people over at random, especially out-of-staters, and seizing whatever property they wanted (cameras, cash, car, etc.) on the grounds that it may have been stolen. They never returned the property because the case against the property is never settled. Eddie > > Robin. > -------------------------------------------------------- > Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service > Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) > Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 > Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk > WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ > --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 14:17:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23869 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.PII.COM (pii.com [192.77.209.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA23855 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PII.COM by PII.COM (4.1/SMI-4.4) id AA11728; Wed, 23 Apr 97 14:19:49 PDT Received: from PII-Message_Server by pii.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:18:09 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:15:54 -0700 From: Robert Clark To: nick@calyx.net, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Civil Forfeiture: (was: How many customers read news) Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -Reply Its nice to enjoy the whole-world feel of the 'FreeBSD Movement'. Sometimes the rest of the world gets to chuckle at our troubles. I think this is one of those times. [RC] >>> Nick Merrill 04/23/97 01:41pm >>> On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Robin Melville wrote: > >.... People every day get cash seized simply because it was > >suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed > > I've never heard of anything so ludicrous... surely this is contrary to the > US Consitution/Bill of Rights. If it isn't then it's legalised theft. Robin - it's true, and don't start turning this into an american-bashing session because it's based in English common law :D Actually for anyone who wants to know more about civil forfeiture, you can read all about it, with first hand accounts at: http://www.fear.org Regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nicholas Merrill 24 Hour pager: 212-381-0500 Voice: 212-292-7325 President / CEO http://www.calyx.net Fax : 212-292-7313 Calyx Internet Access 271 E. 10th St. #100 NYC 10009 Email: nick@calyx.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 15:20:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26850 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (ernie@spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26788 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA10737; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:18:35 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704232218.IAA10737@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: Re: Methods of keeping current with 2.2 In-Reply-To: <199704230945.MAA02640@shadows.aeon.net> from mika ruohotie at "Apr 23, 97 12:45:59 pm" To: bsdisp@shadows.aeon.net (mika ruohotie) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:18:35 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > and a somewhat trickier set up involving big Modula-3 libraries etc. > > > > > > My question is what is the most practical method I can use to automate > > > monthly unattended updates of the 2.2 release? > > I'd say use cvsup. If you don't want to hassle with the modula-3 libs, > > use the one in ftp://hub.freebsd.org/pub/CVSup/cvsup-bin-14.1.1.tar.gz that > > that's right. the cvsup is still superrior for the task, far more better > than sup ever could be... > > and hard to set up? either the said binary, or > > cd /usr/ports/net/cvsup > make all install > > and there you go after a while. what comes to the cvsupfile, well, it > can not be that hard. > > once you've been assimilated to cvsup you dont want to drop it. Well I installed cvsup, ran supconv on my stable-supfile and did a cvsup -L2 cvs-supfile, it ran for hours and produced a directory callev SVSROOT with everfile in it ending with ,v Now what do I do with it? - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 15:28:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA27302 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tok.qiv.com ([204.214.141.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27297 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id RAA05338; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:27:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00911; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:52:19 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: acp.qiv.com: jdn owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:52:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jay D. Nelson" To: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" cc: Sysadmin , Blaine Minazzi , isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -> ->O.K., so we're not in a police state, but this isn't the land of the free ->anymore. We've given up freedom for security, and there's a rather famous ->quote on that one. -> You think we're not in a police state? -- Act if it were and hope it isn't. We had a tiff with King George over issues very much like this a while back. -- Jay From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 19:13:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA09025 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phil.digitaladvantage.net (phil.digitaladvantage.net [207.40.157.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09019 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pamela.digitaladvantage.net (pamela.digitaladvantage.net [208.18.129.16]) by phil.digitaladvantage.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04849 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:07:05 -0500 (CDT) From: rpanula@dacmail.net (Russ Panula) To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:21:51 -0600 Organization: Digital Advantage Corporation Reply-To: rpanula@dacmail.net Message-ID: <3363d18a.7310629@mail.digitaladvantage.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99f/32.299 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id TAA09021 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:28:11 -0700 (PDT), Michael Dillon wrote: >On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> (I, on the >> other hand, am more likely to go pee on a high voltage power line > >Can I watch? ;-D > Sure, check out alt.binaries.pictures.jordan.pees.on.power.lines ;-) (Sorry couldn't resist) From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 19:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA09121 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dilbert.iagnet.net (root@dilbert.iagnet.net [207.206.8.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09101; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by dilbert.iagnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA15041; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704240213.WAA15041@dilbert.iagnet.net> Subject: Repeated Crashes, news server - SCSI Probs? To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:13:53 -0400 (EDT) RFC_Violation: You saw it here first! From: jamie@dilbert.iagnet.net (Jamie Rishaw) Reply-To: jamie@dilbert.iagnet.net Organization: Internet Access Group X-No-Archive: yes X-Face: >:-p X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I've been having a problem with one of the FreeBSD machines on our network. It's the news server.. Sorry for the crosspost, btw. Up until today it was a Cyrix 6x86 with 128M RAM, yada yada.. today's config is: - P-Pro 200, TYAN mb, 192Mb RAM - FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE - Adaptec AHA-2940 Ultra/Ultra W BIOS v1.21 - 2x9GB ST410800W (News spool) - Generic 500Mb, Generic 600Mb quantum HD (IDE) (System) - 2x3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI rev 0 int a It seems that the server doesn't like to stay online for more than a day or so before rebooting. This has been the symptom since the day I rescued the poor server from a life of servitude and slavery running an evil Micros*** product. No worry, I formatted the disks thrice. :-) I'm looking at the messages file (I have them locally and across the network) and this is the last thing I see before a reboot: Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0x8 (reboot) Apr 23 13:21:07 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Apr 23 13:21:07 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xd (reboot) Apr 23 17:12:13 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Apr 23 17:12:13 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xc (reboot) Apr 23 19:32:56 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 Apr 23 19:32:56 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xc (reboot) Here's a dmesg: -- snip -- FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE #14: Tue Apr 22 21:12:19 EDT 1997 jamie@iagnews.iagnet.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/GAV CPU: 199-MHz unknown (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x619 Stepping=9 Features=0xf9ff,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV> real memory = 201326592 (196608K bytes) Physical memory hole(s): avail memory = 192729088 (188212K bytes) Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 chip2 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 vx0 <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:11 utp[*utp*] address 00:a0:24:de:6e:23 vx1 <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:12 utp[*utp*]: disable 'auto select' with DOS util! address 00:a0:24:de:92:78 ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 11 on pci0:13 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs (ahc0:0:0): "SEAGATE ST410800W 0006" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 8669MB (17755614 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:2:0): "SEAGATE ST410800W 0003" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:2:0): Direct-Access 8669MB (17755614 512 byte sectors) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): wd0: 601MB (1232784 sectors), 1223 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S wdc0: unit 1 (wd1): wd1: 516MB (1057280 sectors), 1120 cyls, 16 heads, 59 S/T, 512 B/S bt0 not found at 0x330 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. -- snip -- bt0's there because I was going to replace the adaptec with a buslogic, but then realized that the cabling was wrong.. :/ Anyhow.. I've seen a lot of talk on this, but no real answers.. Are adaptec 29xx's Satan-Spawn? TIA all, -jamie -- jamie g.k. rishaw Internet Access Group Chance favors the prepared mind. __ [http://www.iagnet.net] DID:216.902.5455 FAX:216.623.3566 \/ 800:800.637.4IAGx5455 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 20:13:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA12005 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guardian.fortress.org (fortress.org [198.168.253.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11997 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by guardian.fortress.org (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA00402; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Webster Reply-To: andrew@pubnix.net To: Jamie Rishaw cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Repeated Crashes, news server - SCSI Probs? In-Reply-To: <199704240213.WAA15041@dilbert.iagnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Jamie Rishaw wrote: > Hi, > > I've been having a problem with one of the FreeBSD machines on our > network. It's the news server.. > > Sorry for the crosspost, btw. > > Up until today it was a Cyrix 6x86 with 128M RAM, yada yada.. today's config > is: > > - P-Pro 200, TYAN mb, 192Mb RAM > - FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE > - Adaptec AHA-2940 Ultra/Ultra W BIOS v1.21 Your problem is the combination of 2.1.7-R and AHA-2940. Get either 2.2.1-R or 2.1.7.1-R and you'll be a happy guy! I'm running 2.2.1-R. With 2.1.7-R it died every 24-48hrs with drive light stuck on. Now its been up for 24 days no headaches!!! Best regards, Andrew Webster andrew@pubnix.net PubNIX Montreal Connected to the world Branche au monde P.O. Box 147 Cote Saint Luc, Quebec H4V 2Y3 tel 514.990.5911 http://www.pubnix.net fax 514.990.9443 From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 21:17:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA14186 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14165; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bradley@localhost) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA15268; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:17:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Bradley Dunn X-Sender: bradley@ns2.harborcom.net To: David Nugent cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: longer usernames In-Reply-To: <19970413103855.23362@usn.blaze.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, David Nugent wrote: > And cvs log entries. There were a few other subtle changes that > have leaked through since. > > FWIW, FreeBSD-current supports *15* character login names, not > 16. In addition to the headers, there was a problem with the > 'proc' struct in the kernel (setlogin(), I think) and a few > userland changes involved as well where the size was assumed > to be 8. Would it be possible for someone to commit the changes where a length of 8 was assumed to 2.2? It shouldn't make any visible difference as long as people keep the headers the same, right? It would just make it easier for people to enable the long names if we didn't have to worry about finding all the places where we have to replace 8 with MAXLOGNAME or UT_NAMESIZE or whatever. Maybe even in the header files: #ifdef LONG_USERNAMES #define UT_NAMESIZE 16 #else #define UT_NAMESIZE 8 #endif etc... Pretty please? :) Just think, then answering all of these questions would be so much easier. :) pbd -- Why can't you be a non-conformist like everyone else? From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 21:42:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA15113 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:42:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from milehigh.denver.net (jdc@milehigh.denver.net [204.144.180.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA15093; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdc@localhost) by milehigh.denver.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA05508; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:45:05 -0600 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:45:05 -0600 (MDT) From: John-David Childs To: Jamie Rishaw cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Repeated Crashes, news server - SCSI Probs? In-Reply-To: <199704240213.WAA15041@dilbert.iagnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I had the same problem with the Adaptec 2940 UW Controller. Jordan and others suggested upgrading to 2.2-REL-ENGINEERING (however that's actually spelled ;). It does seem to have helped SIGNIFICANTLY! I ended up booting from a 2.2-RELEASE-ENG floppy and starting all over, but it was worth it to get rid of the random reboots. -- On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Jamie Rishaw wrote: > Hi, > > I've been having a problem with one of the FreeBSD machines on our > network. It's the news server.. > > Sorry for the crosspost, btw. > > Up until today it was a Cyrix 6x86 with 128M RAM, yada yada.. today's config > is: > > - P-Pro 200, TYAN mb, 192Mb RAM > - FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE > - Adaptec AHA-2940 Ultra/Ultra W BIOS v1.21 > - 2x9GB ST410800W (News spool) > - Generic 500Mb, Generic 600Mb quantum HD (IDE) (System) > - 2x3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI rev 0 int a > > It seems that the server doesn't like to stay online for more than a day > or so before rebooting. This has been the symptom since the day I rescued the > poor server from a life of servitude and slavery running an evil Micros*** > product. No worry, I formatted the disks thrice. :-) > > I'm looking at the messages file (I have them locally and across the network) > and this is the last thing I see before a reboot: > > Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0x8 > (reboot) > Apr 23 13:21:07 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > Apr 23 13:21:07 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xd > (reboot) > Apr 23 17:12:13 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > Apr 23 17:12:13 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xc > (reboot) > Apr 23 19:32:56 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > Apr 23 19:32:56 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xc > John-David Childs (JC612) http://www.denver.net System Administrator jdc@denver.net & Network Engineer Think, Listen, Look, then ACT! "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on" - Louis B Mayer From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 22:37:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17173 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17152 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.8.4/8.6.9) id NAA07410 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:33:35 GMT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:33:35 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199704241333.NAA07410@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: forward mail to a perl script Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I noted from this list that one can forward a mail message to a perl script program in order to handle some event. But there is no detail. I checked the mail and sendmail mannual but find nothing to help me. I hope to get your help from this list. And maybe you can tell me whether it's possible or not. I mean, I am going to generate the database operate code at my WIN95 then send the code as an email to my perl script locates at my FreeBSD box to operate the database such as create or drop etc. I think if I can do this, I can do many many useful operations at the remote site. Is this useful or is there any other method? Best regaurds! --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Apr 23 23:06:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA18159 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA18128; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (local [127.0.0.1]) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26547; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:05:39 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199704240605.QAA26547@unique.usn.blaze.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Bradley Dunn cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: longer usernames In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:17:13 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:05:39 +1000 From: David Nugent Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Would it be possible for someone to commit the changes where a length of 8 > was assumed to 2.2? It shouldn't make any visible difference as long as > people keep the headers the same, right? Uh, sure, I guess. In fact, most of the -current code could be merged directly into 2.2 and it would make no difference at all. It was intentionally coded that way, so I guess it would be a good idea to do this. (Since I took care of some of this in -current I'll put it on my todo list :-)). Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 01:01:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA22507 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22495 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (local [127.0.0.1]) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28674; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:00:27 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199704240800.SAA28674@unique.usn.blaze.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Darrin R. Woods" cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wu-ftpd 2.4.2 beta 12 question In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:57:54 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:00:26 +1000 From: David Nugent Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does the fbsd port not include the virtual support? Yes. > The install notes make some mention of adding -DVIRTUAL to > the CFLAGS in the makefile. I can't find any CFLAGS in any > of the makefiles. This #define is set in the conf.h or config.h header. I don't recall the exact name. No need to add it to CFLAGS. > What am I doing wrong? or does anyone know an easier way of achieving what > I want. The usual error here is not specifying the -a command line switch in /etc/inetd.conf to tell wu-ftpd to read the ftpaccess file (and therefore activate all the settings therein, including your virtual domains). We run it here with: ftpd -a -d -l -L but see the manpage and tune to taste. :) -- Regards, David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 01:10:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA23041 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (unique.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA23030 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unique.usn.blaze.net.au (local [127.0.0.1]) by unique.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28847; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:09:30 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199704240809.SAA28847@unique.usn.blaze.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: xiyuan qian cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: forward mail to a perl script In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:33:35 GMT." <199704241333.NAA07410@npc.haplink.co.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:09:30 +1000 From: David Nugent Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, I noted from this list that one can forward a mail message to a perl > script program in order to handle some event. But there is no detail. /etc/aliases is your friend. > I checked the mail and sendmail mannual but find nothing to help me. Yup. aliases are very poorly documented. It is a pity for such a useful thing. You alias an address to a program using the following syntax: name: "|/path/to/program -program args" e.g. info: "|/usr/libexec/sm.bin/mailserver -f info" mailserv: "|/usr/libexec/sm.bin/mailserver" The '|' (pipe) character is the key, and don't forget the quotes. Incoming mail is piped to the program via its standard input. If you're running smrsh (which is more secure than using the general shells and generally an advisable thing to do in most cases) then the programs must be run out of /usr/libexec/sm.bin. -- David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 02:53:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA27614 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shadows.aeon.net (bsdisp@shadows.aeon.net [194.100.41.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27609 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bsdisp@localhost) by shadows.aeon.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id MAA03092; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:54:05 +0300 (EET DST) From: mika ruohotie Message-Id: <199704240954.MAA03092@shadows.aeon.net> Subject: Re: Methods of keeping current with 2.2 In-Reply-To: <199704232218.IAA10737@spooky.eis.net.au> from Ernie Elu at "Apr 24, 97 08:18:35 am" To: ernie@eis.net.au (Ernie Elu) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:54:04 +0300 (EET DST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > and there you go after a while. what comes to the cvsupfile, well, it > > can not be that hard. > > > > once you've been assimilated to cvsup you dont want to drop it. > Well I installed cvsup, ran supconv on my stable-supfile and did a cvsup -L2 > cvs-supfile, it ran for hours and produced a directory callev SVSROOT with > everfile in it ending with ,v uh oh. you didnt have the tag at all and drew the whole CVS tree... well, not you can checkout any version you want. =) > Now what do I do with it? well. since i dont know what kinnd of supfile you have, and even though there is also example on the handbook, here's what i use for the supfile... i have it named into /etc/cvsup.freebsd.org but that's irrelevant -- snip -- # cvsupfile *default tag=RELENG_2_2 # i think you wanted the 2.2-STABLE *default host=cvsup.FreeBSD.org *default prefix=/usr *default base=/usr/local/etc/cvsup # create this *default release=cvs delete use-rel-suffix compress src-all src-eBones # if you live outside states, take this from internat.freebsd.org src-secure # if you live outside states, take this from internat.freebsd.org # correct form for that is (i think it is, never used myself) #src-eBones host=internat.freebsd.org #src-secure host=internat.freebsd.org # i assume that this should be done like this rather than just 'ports-all' # since now you are actually drawing the -current (maintained) ports, # though anyone with proper knowledge, direct me, please ports-all tag=. -- snip-- ofcourse, since you already have the whole CVS tree, you can just checkout, but i'm not sure how that happens... someone else has to help you with that. i'd suggest rm -rf:in the CVSROOT, you dont need it. and running the cvsup again this time having the tag there too... that way it'd manipulate your source tree directly. wont last too long. and with x on you can have a nice interface. with x you need only 'cvsup supfile' another way is without the x, 'cvsup -g -L 2 supfile' -g being the flag to disable x in case you do it on x-capable machine (like on xterm). i still prefer the x interface though, it's informative. list of tags is on handbook, section 17.2 mickey From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 04:17:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA01319 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 04:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA01312 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 04:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id MAA06658; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:15:48 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id MAA23326; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:07:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA23875; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:43:37 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970424102648.00703f90@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:26:48 +0100 To: Robert Clark , nick@calyx.net, isp@FreeBSD.org From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: Civil Forfeiture: (was: How many customers read news) Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:38 22/04/97 -0700, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: >.... People every day get cash seized simply because it was >suspicious that they had that much cash on them. >>> Nick Merrill 04/23/97 01:41pm >>> >Robin - it's true, and don't start turning this into an american-bashing >session because it's based in English common law :D At 14:15 23/04/97 -0700, Robert Clark wrote: >Its nice to enjoy the whole-world feel of the 'FreeBSD Movement'. Sometimes > the rest of the world gets to chuckle at our troubles. I'm more appalled than chuckling at this abuse of power. The UK police have similar discretion to seize /evidence/ under a search warrant (and have threatened to do so to ISP's) and can confiscate pornography/publishing equipment. The UK Drug Trafficking Act is unusually draconian in that it reverses the burden of proof -- the accused has to prove that his property was /not/ the proceeds of drug trafficking to prevent seizure. However for the DTA to apply, you have to already have been convicted under the Misuse of Drugs Act or Customs law. Once the Government grabs rights from us its tough to get them back. However, I thought that US Citizens were luckier that us in that they had constitutional protection -- I guess that's a mirage after all :/ In deference to Jordan's remarks we ought to cut this thread since it's way off topic. However I wish US ISP's well and hope this can be resolved without the destruction of your livelihoods and/or the vibrancy & freedom of the Internet (of which FreeBSD is an important part!). Best regards Robin. -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 05:02:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA02834 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA02829 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA24864; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:00:06 +0100 Message-ID: <335F4B46.59E2B600@cablenet.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:00:06 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: danlaw@rust.net CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: News... References: <199704181657.JAA02594@root.com> <3357C27A.63DECDAD@cablenet.net> <3357F448.34A9@rust.net> <335CA624.167EB0E7@cablenet.net> <335D044A.60DC@rust.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Sorry my mis-understanding. Your whole email was quoted and I got the impression that I was being misquoted. Sysadmin wrote: > > Damian Hamill wrote: > > > > Sysadmin wrote: > > > > > > Damian Hamill wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There just isn't enough bandwidth... ever... > You wrote this bandwidth quote, right? regards and sorry to have wasted your (and everyone else's) time damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 07:53:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA09823 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09818 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24817 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:53:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: SMTP gateway clients Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Anyone know how to support smtp gateways without a static IP on the client's end? From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 08:15:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA10930 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10910; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA01437; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970424111952.00a1f1e0@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:19:52 -0400 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk After looking around a lot of the firewall sites and browsing through the firewall list archives, I am still not entirely clear what a commercial firewall costing $10K U.S. would give me over the basic firewalling capabilities in FreeBSD combined with sshd, NAT, proxy servers and or SOCKS v5... Although VPN would be a very nice feature to have to link up remote offices, if this is not necessary, should we reccomend to the client to go out and spend $10K on a commercial firewall solution as opposed to a FreeBSD box ? ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 08:26:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA11494 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (root@pluto100.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11472; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA01891; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199704241526.JAA01891@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: jamie@dilbert.iagnet.net cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Repeated Crashes, news server - SCSI Probs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:13:53 EDT." <199704240213.WAA15041@dilbert.iagnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:24:44 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm looking at the messages file (I have them locally and across the network) >and this is the last thing I see before a reboot: > >Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHAS >E == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 This is an old bug. You should run either 2.1-stable or 2.2-stable on this machine which has all of the latest bug fixes for the adaptec driver. >Anyhow.. I've seen a lot of talk on this, but no real answers.. Are adaptec >29xx's Satan-Spawn? I must have mentioned 10 times that people who see this problem need to get the latest driver, but perhaps you're not on those lists. >TIA all, > >-jamie >-- >jamie g.k. rishaw Internet Access Group >Chance favors the prepared mind. __ [http://www.iagnet.net] >DID:216.902.5455 FAX:216.623.3566 \/ 800:800.637.4IAGx5455 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 08:33:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA11845 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11839 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id KAA16631; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:33:00 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma016611; Thu Apr 24 15:32:33 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970424103553.00a6af40@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:35:54 -0500 To: empey@integral.on.ca From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: advice on machone choice for servers Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:58 AM 4/23/97 +0500, David Empey wrote: >I'm hoping to pick the brains of some more experienced freeBSD users. >I'd like to set up a mail server (approx. 250 messages per day at >present) and a web server (100 hits a day approx., rarely more than 2 >at the same time) on an older 486/66 with 8MB RAM under freeBSD. Is >this combination likely to fly? Any advice welcome, with thanks. Just to give an example at the more extreme end. We had a 486/66 with 32Mb and about 90 web sites pushing 7000 hits per hour, which was the average, so it would peak at around 20-25K hits per hour. About 4-8Mb memory free and a load of about .70 at peak times. I'd say go for 16Mb ram. Never hurts to have a bit more. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 08:39:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA12194 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net [154.32.106.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12186 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (uucp1.mail.uk.psi.net [154.32.105.26]) by sys3.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.8.4/) with ESMTP id QAA02179; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:39:34 +0100 (BST) Received: by sys4.cambridge.uk.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.5-UKPSINet) id QAA29183; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:19:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from infodev.nadt.org.uk (infodev.nadt.org.uk [194.155.224.205]) by charlie.nadt.org.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA23935; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:33:52 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970424111702.006ff158@wrcmail> X-Sender: robmel@wrcmail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:17:02 +0100 To: xiyuan qian , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Robin Melville Subject: Re: forward mail to a perl script Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 13:33 24/04/97 GMT, xiyuan qian wrote: > >Hi, I noted from this list that one can forward a mail message to a perl script >program in order to handle some event. But there is no detail. You can do this either from /etc/aliases or use a ~/.forward file. in aliases: myprog: "|/usr/local/bin/myprog arg1 arg2" this would run any messages for myprog@your.domain through /usr/local/bin/myprog in ~auser/.forward (example 1): \auser, "|/usr/local/bin/myprog arg arg" This will deliver the message to auser@your.domain mailbox and also run it through the program. example 2: "|/usr/local/bin/myprog arg arg" This will just run it through the program. In each case, the program will see the message text (& all the headers) on "stdin". Best regards, Robin -------------------------------------------------------- Robin Melville, Addiction & Forensic Information Service Nottingham Alcohol & Drug Team (Extn. 49178) Vox: +44 (0)115 952 9478 Fax: +44 (0)115 952 9421 Email: robmel@nadt.org.uk WWW: http://www.innotts.co.uk/nadt/ --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 09:15:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA14058 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14024; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA16227; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:22:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199704241622.SAA16227@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD To: mike@sentex.net (Mike Tancsa) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:22:52 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970424111952.00a1f1e0@sentex.net> from Mike Tancsa at "Apr 24, 97 11:19:52 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Mike Tancsa: > > After looking around a lot of the firewall sites and browsing through the > firewall list archives, I am still not entirely clear what a commercial > firewall costing $10K U.S. would give me over the basic firewalling > capabilities in FreeBSD combined with sshd, NAT, proxy servers and or SOCKS > v5... Although VPN would be a very nice feature to have to link up remote > offices, if this is not necessary, should we reccomend to the client to go > out and spend $10K on a commercial firewall solution as opposed to a > FreeBSD box ? How's "Firewall1"'s ability to analyze the traffic and such, for example? Like, it can let outgoing UPD go out, and answers to it come back, but nothing else. And it will look into FTP packets and snoop your connections for port setups, and let that port connect, when it comes. Thereby, ftp, archie, or anything else which has problems with firewalls willwork as expected. And... you can make it filter out the ActiveX components of web pages, etc. Plus: You get a real easy to set up, GUI configuration thing, which will by pure eay-to-use factor make your firewall safer, since you wont forget anything so easilly. Sure, you can do that with FreeBSD. Just use divert sockets, and write a program to handle it. Problem is, you'll spend quite a lot of money in developing the same functions. You DO get something for you money, you really do. I'm all for FreeBSD as a firewall, and anything else, basically. However, it's all about what your budget is. If they have the money, I think it's problably worth it. /Mikael From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 09:29:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15110 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [206.14.52.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15087; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA08107; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:28:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199704241628.JAA08107@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, mike@sentex.net, security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Part of what you're buying in a commercial firewall is expertise: packaged implicitly in the product, ongoing support services, and in some cases, bundled consulting services with firewall setup. Yes, you can roll a pretty good firewall with FreeBSD, socksv5, ssh, etc. It just takes some expertise and time. Whether you're better off spending that (assuming you have it), or spending the money for a commercial product, is purely a business decision. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 09:40:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA15821 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15801; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA00373; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970424124424.00b04100@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:44:24 -0400 To: Mikael Karpberg From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199704241622.SAA16227@ocean.campus.luth.se> References: <3.0.1.32.19970424111952.00a1f1e0@sentex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 06:22 PM 4/24/97 +0200, Mikael Karpberg wrote: >According to Mike Tancsa: >> >> After looking around a lot of the firewall sites and browsing through the >> firewall list archives, I am still not entirely clear what a commercial >> firewall costing $10K U.S. would give me over the basic firewalling >> capabilities in FreeBSD combined with sshd, NAT, proxy servers and or SOCKS >> v5... Although VPN would be a very nice feature to have to link up remote >> offices, if this is not necessary, should we reccomend to the client to go >> out and spend $10K on a commercial firewall solution as opposed to a >> FreeBSD box ? > First of all, thank you for your response. >How's "Firewall1"'s ability to analyze the traffic and such, for >example? Like, it can let outgoing UPD go out, and answers to it come >back, but nothing else. And it will look into FTP packets and snoop your >connections for port setups, and let that port connect, when it comes. >Thereby, ftp, archie, or anything else which has problems with firewalls >willwork as expected. And... you can make it filter out the ActiveX >components of web pages, etc. Plus: You get a real easy to set up, GUI >configuration thing, which will by pure eay-to-use factor make your firewall >safer, since you wont forget anything so easilly. I think the client in this case doesnt even want to let the remote offices do any sort of web browsing, and they will not be hosting any public information at the satelite offices. The firewalls will merely allow the remote offices to share data on their NT network. I want to present them with as many options as possible from the "Firewall on a shoe string budget" to the deluxo modles out there. For the lower end of the price scale, I was thinking of something like FreeBSD as the gateway with all the attandant security software, combined with SKIP (www.skip.org) to provide the VPN between the many small offices that they have. >You DO get something for you money, you really do. I'm all for FreeBSD as >a firewall, and anything else, basically. However, it's all about what your >budget is. If they have the money, I think it's problably worth it. Yes, I can see how a simplified interface goes a long way to catching potentiall dangerous misconfigurations. However, I am the type of person who does not like to see money needlessly spent. Also, I am looking at this investigation in terms of future reccomendations as well. We have many smaller customers who do not have the capital available to spend lots of money on security, but never the less should have a decent amount... Hell, even at home here... I have a little 2 node network connected to the net through my FreeBSD box. Since I installed the firewall options on it, I have been rather suprised at home many sites want to do SMB negotiations when I have been browsing the web from my NT box... (e.g. http://www.ntsecurity.net/security/ie3-4.htm), and I found this entry rather suprising the other day in my filter logs.... Apr 23 20:33:31 sand /kernel: ipfw: 6000 Deny UDP 205.211.165.210:137 204.216.27.18:137 via tun0 (thats hub.FreeBSD.ORG)... I like having a firewall at home, and I like to have as much security as possible... But of course, I dont have $10K to spend on peace of mind ;-) Thanks again for taking the time to respond... Researching this project has been most interesting! ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 10:02:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA17113 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17088; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA00412; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:06:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970424130621.00b82320@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:06:21 -0400 To: Jim Shankland , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199704241628.JAA08107@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 09:28 AM 4/24/97 -0700, Jim Shankland wrote: >Part of what you're buying in a commercial firewall is expertise: >packaged implicitly in the product, ongoing support services, and >in some cases, bundled consulting services with firewall setup. > >Yes, you can roll a pretty good firewall with FreeBSD, socksv5, >ssh, etc. It just takes some expertise and time. Whether you're >better off spending that (assuming you have it), or spending the >money for a commercial product, is purely a business decision. Thanks for the response. Yes, this is the way my boss and I have looked at it. We decided to investigate the project as much as possible ourselves, because we see this as a potentially new market for us to get into... i.e. low cost security solutions to our customers. For example, we have several non-profit organizations who would like to have some firewalling solutions, but do not have a great deal of money to spend.. So far, FreeBSD+ SKIP to do VPN seems like an enticing solution for *some* situations... We have setup many FreeBSD boxes and can do it quite quickly from scratch now, so the skill set is already there... To go to a new dedicated customer and say "look, we can give you a unit that will act as your gateway, provide decent security for your LAN for basically the cost of the hardware, plus our consulting fee, or you can go with one of these commercial products for $XXX, and will provide you with YYY features that the other solution wont give you", gives us that much more flexibility... I guess what I am really after in asking these questions is a response like "FreeBSD + its security software ? No way! You cant protect against XXXXX attacks... Its crucial!" But so far, I havent seen any show stoppers... One thing I have found somewhat suprising in this research project is the reaction to Microsoft's PPTP RFC, or to be more precise, the lack of reaction to it. I did a search through Dejanews (for those of you who havent tried it, check out http://www.dejanews.com), and found absolutely no mention of in in the FreeBSD mailing lists, or in the newsgroups, and hardly any mention of it even in comp.unix*... Is it because its a Microsoft initiative ? ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 10:07:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA17655 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.id.net (mail.id.net [199.125.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17635; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.id.net (server.id.net [199.125.2.20]) by mail.id.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00590; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:07:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Shady Received: (from rls@localhost) by server.id.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA00300; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704241707.NAA00300@server.id.net> Subject: Re: Repeated Crashes, news server - SCSI Probs? In-Reply-To: from John-David Childs at "Apr 23, 97 10:45:05 pm" To: jdc@denver.net (John-David Childs) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jamie@dilbert.iagnet.net, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > > Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0x8 > > (reboot) > > Apr 23 13:21:07 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > > Apr 23 13:21:07 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xd > > (reboot) > > Apr 23 17:12:13 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > > Apr 23 17:12:13 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xc > > (reboot) > > Apr 23 19:32:56 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHASE == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > > Apr 23 19:32:56 iagnews /kernel: SEQADDR == 0xc Hmmm.. I've had the same problem when I run my tape backup drive on my 2940UW.. I'll have to check into that. It's a new tape drive, so I was just figuring it was probably me.. :) -- Rob === _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ Innovative Data Services Serving South-Eastern Michigan Internet Service Provider / Hardware Sales / Consulting Services Voice: (810)855-0404 / Fax: (810)855-3268 / Web: http://www.id.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 10:43:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA20124 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.id.net (mail.id.net [199.125.1.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20104; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.id.net (server.id.net [199.125.2.20]) by mail.id.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA01267; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Shady Received: (from rls@localhost) by server.id.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA00664; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704241743.NAA00664@server.id.net> Subject: Re: Repeated Crashes, news server - SCSI Probs? In-Reply-To: <199704241526.JAA01891@pluto.plutotech.com> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at "Apr 24, 97 10:24:44 am" To: gibbs@plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Cc: jamie@dilbert.iagnet.net, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I'm looking at the messages file (I have them locally and across the network) > >and this is the last thing I see before a reboot: > > > >Apr 21 17:11:00 iagnews /kernel: sd1(ahc0:2:0): timed out while idle, LASTPHAS > >E == 0x1, SCSISIGI == 0x0 > > This is an old bug. You should run either 2.1-stable or 2.2-stable on this > machine which has all of the latest bug fixes for the adaptec driver. > > >Anyhow.. I've seen a lot of talk on this, but no real answers.. Are adaptec > >29xx's Satan-Spawn? > > I must have mentioned 10 times that people who see this problem need to get > the latest driver, but perhaps you're not on those lists. I saw your message, but I'm running 3.0-970209-SNAP, I figured it would be in there... :( -- Rob === _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ Innovative Data Services Serving South-Eastern Michigan Internet Service Provider / Hardware Sales / Consulting Services Voice: (810)855-0404 / Fax: (810)855-3268 / Web: http://www.id.net From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 11:35:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22874 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA22862 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id NAA11593; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:33:46 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011566; Thu Apr 24 18:33:23 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970424133641.00a5c5b0@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:36:41 -0500 To: Steve From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:53 AM 4/24/97 -0400, Steve wrote: >Anyone know how to support smtp gateways without a static IP on the >client's end? I don't think this is advisable or even possible. The MX server needs to have an IP ergo if it changes... ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 11:52:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA23755 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23750; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA28321; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970424145057.00b74d90@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:51:00 -0400 To: Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis Subject: Re: Router statistics Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:17 PM 4/24/97 -0400, Christopher Sedore wrote: > >Every now and then someone asks about using FreeBSD as a router/firewall. >I thought I'd post these stats for our router, a P90 with two DEC PCI >ethernet cards (10mbit), and running ipfw for filtering: > >$ netstat -I de1 >Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll >de1 1500 00.00.f8.01.29.48 563695622 59 575254062 1500 1378263754 >de1 1500 128.230.105/2 rt 563695622 59 575254062 1500 1378263754 >$ uptime >11:18AM up 106 days, 20:35, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 >$ uname -a >FreeBSD rt.maxwell.syr.edu 2.2-961014-SNAP FreeBSD 2.2-961014-SNAP #0: Thu Jan 2 >13:08:44 1997 cmsedore@rt.maxwell.syr.edu:/usr/src/sys/compile/RT i386 > >Now, I realize that the packet numbers do not appear to be that >impressive. This is because we rolled the counters so you need to add >2^32 to each count :). Over this roughly 107 day period, we averaged about >1100 packets/second. Has anyone done any load testing on 2.2.x lately (perhaps someone with a 100Mbs ethernet....I'd like to get some numbers for some marketing literature regarding OS throughout capability...the goal being to convice the world that a FreeBSD box with 16 T1 lines is feasible. This would require 10-15,000 pps if all of the lines were rather busy. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 11:57:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA24092 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinky.junction.net (pinky.junction.net [199.166.227.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24087; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sidhe.memra.com (sidhe.memra.com [199.166.227.105]) by pinky.junction.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA06549; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:57:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (michael@localhost) by sidhe.memra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA03970; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:52:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:52:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dillon To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG cc: security@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970424130621.00b82320@sentex.net> Message-ID: Organization: Memra Software Inc. - Internet consulting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Mike Tancsa wrote: > One thing I have found somewhat suprising in this research project is the > reaction to Microsoft's PPTP RFC, or to be more precise, the lack of > reaction to it. I did a search through Dejanews (for those of you who > havent tried it, check out http://www.dejanews.com), and found absolutely > no mention of in in the FreeBSD mailing lists, or in the newsgroups, and > hardly any mention of it even in comp.unix*... Is it because its a > Microsoft initiative ? It's a proprietary Microsoft protocol and there is an IETF WG working on combining PPTP and Cisco's L2F into a unified L2TP. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 12:06:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA24579 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24553; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29033; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from current1.whistle.com(207.76.205.22) via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd029030; Thu Apr 24 19:04:27 1997 Message-ID: <335FAEA4.446B9B3D@whistle.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:04:04 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Tancsa CC: Jim Shankland , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org, security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD References: <3.0.1.32.19970424130621.00b82320@sentex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Tancsa wrote: > [...] To go to a new dedicated customer and > say "look, we can give you a unit that will act as your gateway, provide > decent security for your LAN for basically the cost of the hardware, plus > our consulting fee, or you can go with one of these commercial products for > $XXX, and will provide you with YYY features that the other solution wont > give you", gives us that much more flexibility... > > I guess what I am really after in asking these questions is a response like > "FreeBSD + its security software ? No way! You cant protect against XXXXX > attacks... Its crucial!" But so far, I havent seen any show stoppers... > > One thing I have found somewhat suprising in this research project is the > reaction to Microsoft's PPTP RFC, or to be more precise, the lack of > reaction to it. I did a search through Dejanews (for those of you who > havent tried it, check out http://www.dejanews.com), and found absolutely > no mention of in in the FreeBSD mailing lists, or in the newsgroups, and > hardly any mention of it even in comp.unix*... Is it because its a > Microsoft initiative ? > check out www.whistle.com for a FreeBSD based version of what you are talking about. VPNs are not yet implimented and the firewalling is still being improved. but as a drop-in box it does admirably and it's a lot cheaper. > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 12:35:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA25948 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.gamespot.com (ns2.gamespot.com [206.169.18.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25917; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tiramisu.gamespot.com (tiramisu.gamespot.com [206.169.18.119]) by ns2.gamespot.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA20680; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970424123611.008bdb50@mail.gamespot.com> X-Sender: ian@mail.gamespot.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:36:12 -0700 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, security@FreeBSD.org From: Ian Kallen Subject: Re: Commercial vs built in firewall capabilities of FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The IETF told Cisco and Microsoft to merge their VPN technology 'cause they were sufficiently similar but not interoperable. I don't know what the implimentation schedule is though. I tried to answer my objection to NT's lack of secure remote administration by using pcAnywhere over a pptp link. No go. Since I couldn't run a tcp/ip capable application over the link, it made me sour on pptp en generale. I don't remotely admin any NT boxes over the net. There's a lot of issues MS has to deal with for NT to be taken seriously as an internet platform, IMO. At 01:06 PM 4/24/97 -0400, Mike Tancsa wrote: >One thing I have found somewhat suprising in this research project is the >reaction to Microsoft's PPTP RFC, or to be more precise, the lack of >reaction to it. I did a search through Dejanews (for those of you who >havent tried it, check out http://www.dejanews.com), and found absolutely >no mention of in in the FreeBSD mailing lists, or in the newsgroups, and >hardly any mention of it even in comp.unix*... Is it because its a >Microsoft initiative ? -- Ian Kallen ian@gamespot.com Director of Technology and Web Administration SpotMedia Communications http://www.gamespot.com/ http://www.videogamespot.com/ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 13:22:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28645 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.plutotech.com (root@pluto100.plutotech.com [206.168.67.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28627; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from narnia.plutotech.com (narnia.plutotech.com [206.168.67.130]) by pluto.plutotech.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA07141; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199704242021.OAA07141@pluto.plutotech.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0beta 12/23/96 To: Robert Shady cc: gibbs@plutotech.com (Justin T. Gibbs), jamie@dilbert.iagnet.net, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Repeated Crashes, news server - SCSI Probs? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:43:03 EDT." <199704241743.NAA00664@server.id.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:20:18 -0600 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I must have mentioned 10 times that people who see this problem need to get >> the latest driver, but perhaps you're not on those lists. > >I saw your message, but I'm running 3.0-970209-SNAP, I figured it would be >in there... :( In something more than 2 months old? > -- Rob >=== > _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ > _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ > _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ > > Innovative Data Services > Serving South-Eastern Michigan > Internet Service Provider / Hardware Sales / Consulting Services > Voice: (810)855-0404 / Fax: (810)855-3268 / Web: http://www.id.net > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 13:26:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28948 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28939; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA10791; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704242028.NAA10791@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis cc: Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Router statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:51:00 EDT." <3.0.32.19970424145057.00b74d90@etinc.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:28:05 -0700 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >At 12:17 PM 4/24/97 -0400, Christopher Sedore wrote: >> >>Every now and then someone asks about using FreeBSD as a router/firewall. >>I thought I'd post these stats for our router, a P90 with two DEC PCI >>ethernet cards (10mbit), and running ipfw for filtering: >> >>$ netstat -I de1 >>Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll >>de1 1500 00.00.f8.01.29.48 563695622 59 575254062 1500 >1378263754 >>de1 1500 128.230.105/2 rt 563695622 59 575254062 1500 >1378263754 >>$ uptime >>11:18AM up 106 days, 20:35, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 >>$ uname -a >>FreeBSD rt.maxwell.syr.edu 2.2-961014-SNAP FreeBSD 2.2-961014-SNAP #0: Thu >Jan 2 >>13:08:44 1997 cmsedore@rt.maxwell.syr.edu:/usr/src/sys/compile/RT i386 >> >>Now, I realize that the packet numbers do not appear to be that >>impressive. This is because we rolled the counters so you need to add >>2^32 to each count :). Over this roughly 107 day period, we averaged about >>1100 packets/second. > > >Has anyone done any load testing on 2.2.x lately (perhaps someone >with a 100Mbs ethernet....I'd like to get some numbers for some >marketing literature regarding OS throughout capability...the goal >being to convice the world that a FreeBSD box with 16 T1 lines >is feasible. This would require 10-15,000 pps if all of the lines >were rather busy. Wcarchive does an average of 3500 pps with a peak of around 5000 pps. The average data rate is around 20-25Mbps, with the machine around 50% idle. This is using the Intel PCI Pro/100B...reduce the idle time to about 30% if you're using a DEC/de card. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 16:09:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07976 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA07964; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from base.jnx.com (base.jnx.com [208.197.169.238]) by red.jnx.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14546; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pst@localhost) by base.jnx.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA00403; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:07:55 -0700 (PDT) To: dg@root.com Cc: dennis , Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Router statistics References: <3.0.32.19970424145057.00b74d90@etinc.com> <199704242028.NAA10791@root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Paul Traina Date: 24 Apr 1997 16:07:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: dg@root.com's message of 24 Apr 97 20:28:05 GMT Message-ID: <7yvi5cuiic.fsf@base.jnx.com> Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.37/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dg@root.com (David Greenman) writes: > >At 12:17 PM 4/24/97 -0400, Christopher Sedore wrote: > Wcarchive does an average of 3500 pps with a peak of around 5000 pps. The > average data rate is around 20-25Mbps, with the machine around 50% idle. This > is using the Intel PCI Pro/100B...reduce the idle time to about 30% if you're > using a DEC/de card. Yep, the fxp driver is /much/ more efficient than the de driver. Oh well, fxp's are cheaper too. :-) From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 16:59:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA10589 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10571 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.calweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09736; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:58:15 -0700 (PDT) X-SMTP: hello devnull from jfesler@calweb.com server unknown@devnull.calweb.com ip 208.131.56.69 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970424165644.00b05100@pop.calweb.com> Warning: Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) will be returned to send in bulk X-Sender: jfesler@pop.calweb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:56:44 -0700 To: Steve , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Jason Fesler Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:53 AM 4/24/97 -0400, Steve wrote: > > >Anyone know how to support smtp gateways without a static IP on the >client's end? Ya, set up a UUCP session between the two. If you have unix on the calling side (the lame side w/out a static IP), that one box *can* run SMTP (and probably will, if you are running sendmail), so that the disconnected network can use modern tools, but still have a store-and-forward mail environment. As to *really* doing SMTP to a dynamic IP, er.. ya, right. -- Jason Fesler jfesler@calweb.com 'whois jf319' | "Time is an illusion; Admin, CalWeb Internet Services www.calweb.com | lunchtime, doubly so." Junk email returned in bulk; 1 cc to your postmaster | -Ford Prefect in HHGTTG Junk mail probs? http://www.gigo.com/junkmail.htm | by Douglas Adams From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 19:50:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA19168 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA19111 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id VAA12901; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:48:39 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012889; Fri Apr 25 02:48:37 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970424215147.0073ea70@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:51:48 -0500 To: isp@freebsd.org From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: News binaries (on topic) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok now. I don't seem to recall if there is a function in INN that will disallow binary postings in non-binary groups or would this have to be done as an add on script? Basically to allow binaries where they belong. Sure the size flag (-l) can chop off period, but some only want to limit the check to the non alt.binaries hierarchy. ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 21:53:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA23711 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (ernie@spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23702 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23503 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:53:34 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704250453.OAA23503@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: Compiling cvsup, what a joke To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:53:33 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So after several people told me to use cvsup to keep the source tree current on my cleints servers, I thought I would give it a go. On 3 out of 4 machines trying to build cvsup failed, in all cases during the build of the silly modula 3 libraries. I gave up on the other 6 machine. One machine ran out of disk space, it had 27MB free! Another ran out of virtual memory, it had 33MB of RAM and 71MB of VM free! The other stopped with ld: -lXaw: no match, I guess cause it does not run X. So, the obvious answer is well "just install the binary version of cvsup". But, whats the point of installing something you can't automatically upgrade if the whole purpose of the excercise is to keep the system current with all the 2.2 patches? No wonder it sup and not cvsup that is in the standard distribution. Is there any hope that someone one day will write a version of cvsup that does not depend on modula-3? Like perhaps using C or C++ so that we can have cvsup in the standard source tree. Oh well, back to the drawing board. - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Apr 24 22:20:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA24966 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [206.14.52.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24961; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA17037; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:19:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199704250519.WAA17037@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: dg@root.com, pst@jnx.com Subject: Re: Router statistics Cc: cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu, dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina writes: > > dg@root.com (David Greenman) writes: > > > > Wcarchive does an average of 3500 pps with a peak of around > > 5000 pps. The average data rate is around 20-25Mbps, with the > > machine around 50% idle. This is using the Intel PCI > > Pro/100B...reduce the idle time to about 30% if you're using a > > DEC/de card. > > Yep, the fxp driver is /much/ more efficient than the de > driver. Oh well, fxp's are cheaper too. :-) (Sigh) Is this an attribute of the driver, or of the respective chips? I've sort of settled on 21140-based cards, and I'd hate to buy Intel stuff, as it only encourages them to take over more of the world than they already have. But for some applications, I really need high throughput and efficiency. And the card *is* cheaper. Does there have to be a switch to the fxp driver in my future? All right, I'm done whining for now. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 00:54:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA00622 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00614 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA01769; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:54:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Ernie Elu cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Compiling cvsup, what a joke In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:53:33 +1000." <199704250453.OAA23503@spooky.eis.net.au> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:54:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1767.861954848@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On 3 out of 4 machines trying to build cvsup failed, in all cases during the > build of the silly modula 3 libraries. I gave up on the other 6 machine. Your machines are either misconfigured or you simply do not know what you are doing. I've been building cvsup from its sources for ages, and except for a brief interval when the M3 port wasn't "split out" into parts (which only made building it more difficult, not impossible), it's always built just fine for me. In fact, I just now built 1.14.1 and all the M3 stuff by way of a test and it's all working smoothly. Yes, it's big and somewhat complex, but calling it "a joke" is unfair and will only get you flamed into a charcoal brickette by yours truly. CVSup has been a tremendous boon to many of us in the developer's community (AND the user community) and sup was by no means as capable a tool for syncronization as cvsup - if it were written in ADA, it would still be worth every single hassle to get what cvsup gives us now. So, either run the binary and be happy or fix whatever it is about your machines that don't allow the M3 build to work, but don't malign what you do not understand if flame-o-grams from CVSup's many fans are something you're trying to avoid. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 03:24:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA06394 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (labs.usn.blaze.net.au [203.17.53.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA06388 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from labs.usn.blaze.net.au (local [127.0.0.1]) by labs.usn.blaze.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01895; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:23:29 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199704251023.UAA01895@labs.usn.blaze.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Ernie Elu cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compiling cvsup, what a joke In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:53:33 +1000." <199704250453.OAA23503@spooky.eis.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:23:28 +1000 From: David Nugent Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > So after several people told me to use cvsup to keep the source tree current > on my cleints servers, I thought I would give it a go. What about fetching the pre-built versions? This is by far easier. There's a dynamicly linked version in -ports, and a statically linked version on freefall. > No wonder it sup and not cvsup that is in the standard distribution. sup was killed recently, so the first part is no longer true for future distributions. David Nugent - Unique Computing Pty Ltd - Melbourne, Australia Voice +61-3-9791-9547 Data/BBS +61-3-9792-3507 3:632/348@fidonet davidn@freebsd.org davidn@blaze.net.au http://www.blaze.net.au/~davidn/ From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 04:15:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA08423 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spooky.eis.net.au (ernie@spooky.eis.net.au [203.12.171.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA08414 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by spooky.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA12834; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:14:43 +1000 (EST) From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704251114.VAA12834@spooky.eis.net.au> Subject: Re: Compiling cvsup, what a joke In-Reply-To: <1767.861954848@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Apr 25, 97 00:54:08 am" To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:14:43 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > On 3 out of 4 machines trying to build cvsup failed, in all cases during the > > build of the silly modula 3 libraries. I gave up on the other 6 machine. > > Your machines are either misconfigured or you simply do not know what > you are doing. They are all stock 2.2.-RELEASE machines with the bin and src distributions installed. The steps followed were: cd /usr/ports/net/cvsup make all install Not much to it don't you think? The only machine it worked on was my home test machine running 2.2.1-RELEASE that has 48MB RAM, 1.4GIG free, and X-windows installed. - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 04:28:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA08869 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA08864 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id EAA06511; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:28:40 -0700 (PDT) To: Ernie Elu cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Compiling cvsup, what a joke In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:14:43 +1000." <199704251114.VAA12834@spooky.eis.net.au> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:28:39 -0700 Message-ID: <6509.861967719@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Your machines are either misconfigured or you simply do not know what ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > They are all stock 2.2.-RELEASE machines with the bin and src distributions > installed. Which by no means implies that they are configured with the right amount of swap space, memory and other resources to be *development* machines (e.g. compile large things like modula3, a very definite development activity). Since the "(A)uto" defaults do not configure for a development machine, development machines *not* being the most common configurations despite what some hackers might wish to believe, if you're not specifically making sure that the box is appropriately configured for these activities then yes, things will fall over just as you'd expect them to on a misconfigured box. The default configuration, for historical and statistical reasons, is a mid-range desktop box. No huge compiles or enormous applications expected, just what you'd expect to do with a modest (<16MB) amount of memory and a space-conservative amount of swap. Your home test machine probably has more memory and/or swap space configured than the other boxes and so it just happened to work out of the box for you. Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 05:10:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA10666 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tinny.eis.net.au (ernie@tinny.eis.net.au [203.12.171.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10655 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ernie@localhost) by tinny.eis.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA03571; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:10:01 +1000 From: Ernie Elu Message-Id: <199704251210.WAA03571@tinny.eis.net.au> Subject: Re: Compiling cvsup, what a joke To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:10:00 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6509.861967719@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Apr 25, 97 04:28:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Your machines are either misconfigured or you simply do not know what > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > They are all stock 2.2.-RELEASE machines with the bin and src distributions > > installed. > > Which by no means implies that they are configured with the right > amount of swap space, memory and other resources to be *development* > machines (e.g. compile large things like modula3, a very definite > development activity). Since the "(A)uto" defaults do not configure > for a development machine, development machines *not* being the most > common configurations despite what some hackers might wish to believe, > if you're not specifically making sure that the box is appropriately > configured for these activities then yes, things will fall over just > as you'd expect them to on a misconfigured box. > > The default configuration, for historical and statistical reasons, is > a mid-range desktop box. No huge compiles or enormous applications > expected, just what you'd expect to do with a modest (<16MB) amount of > memory and a space-conservative amount of swap. Your home test > machine probably has more memory and/or swap space configured than the > other boxes and so it just happened to work out of the box for you. > > Jordan > Right, so what you are saying is gone are the days of keeping current with the -stable tree unless you either install the bin distributions regularly or have a machine configured as a "development machine". Fair enough. A loss of the ease of upgrade we had in the past, thats all. - Ernie. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 05:32:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA11862 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA11820 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03011; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:30:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Jason Fesler cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970424165644.00b05100@pop.calweb.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Jason Fesler wrote: > At 10:53 AM 4/24/97 -0400, Steve wrote: > > > > > >Anyone know how to support smtp gateways without a static IP on the > >client's end? > > Ya, set up a UUCP session between the two. If you have unix on the calling > side (the lame side w/out a static IP), that one box *can* run SMTP (and > probably will, if you are running sendmail), so that the disconnected > network can use modern tools, but still have a store-and-forward mail > environment. > > As to *really* doing SMTP to a dynamic IP, er.. ya, right. > I thought so - but I had to take a shot in case I was living in the dark or something. A competitor who had the world convinced he was the largest, supported dialup SMTP. of course this was because in reality he had 32 lines and didnt have the class C boundary crossing problems associated with having hundreds of lines. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 05:40:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA12318 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA12242 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA17214; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:37:40 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199704251237.OAA17214@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Compiling cvsup, what a joke In-Reply-To: <199704251210.WAA03571@tinny.eis.net.au> from Ernie Elu at "Apr 25, 97 10:10:00 pm" To: ernie@eis.net.au (Ernie Elu) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:37:40 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Right, so what you are saying is gone are the days of keeping current with > the -stable tree unless you either install the bin distributions regularly > or have a machine configured as a "development machine". > > Fair enough. > > A loss of the ease of upgrade we had in the past, thats all. > I'm not sure what your real complaint is. I'm running the same staticly linked cvsup binary on all my boxes, 2.1.x, 2.2.x and -current machines. That way I don't need the seperate modula libraries and I don't have to recompile the monster. The source is available, so I can recompile if I have to, but up to know it hasn't been necesary. BTW, I'm thinking of using it here internally to distribute some of our source. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 05:52:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA13124 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (mailrelay1.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA13119 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 05:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA28542; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:51:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19970425135141.02681@pavilion.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:51:41 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients References: <3.0.32.19970424133641.00a5c5b0@mixcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970424133641.00a5c5b0@mixcom.com>; from Jeffrey J. Mountin on Thu, Apr 24, 1997 at 01:36:41PM -0500 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Apr 24, 1997 at 01:36:41PM -0500, Jeffrey J. Mountin wrote: > At 10:53 AM 4/24/97 -0400, Steve wrote: > >Anyone know how to support smtp gateways without a static IP on the > >client's end? > > I don't think this is advisable or even possible. The MX server needs to > have an IP ergo if it changes... > Not so, You can locally receive mail into a mailbox using sendmail, and then spawn a process that talks SMTP to send it to the customer when they log in and you know their ip address. Problems: * Remembering the envelope so that you can reconstruct it! * Cussing and swearing because end user Microsoft machine's have fun and games with dynamic Ip addresses and mail servers! :) Joe -- Josef Karthauser Technical Manager Email: joe@pavilion.net Pavilion Internet plc. [Tel: +44 1273 607072 Fax: +44 1273 607073] From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 06:24:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA14893 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 06:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indigo.ie (aoife.indigo.ie [194.125.133.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA14888 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 06:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indigo.ie (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by indigo.ie (8.8.5/8.8.5/INDIGO-HUB) with ESMTP id OAA11999 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:24:33 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199704251324.OAA11999@indigo.ie> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Large POP/SMTP server configurations From: Alan Judge Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:24:33 +0100 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [Since we're hoping to transition as many of our service machines as possible to FreeBSD, this seems like the place to ask.] We're currently considering options for expanding our core mail service. The size of our userbase means that it's becoming less and less possible to support all our POP and user-related SMTP activity on a single machine (we've already offloaded most of the incoming and outgoing mail handling). (Our current service is a twin-cpu SS-20 running SunOS and is creaking at the seams, and will start hitting UID depletion problems before long.) I'm looking at options for upgrading and focussing on chucking the Sun gear and using PCs and FreeBSD (as we've already done for other services). I'd like to take this opportunity to spread the load across multiple machines, as I'm not sure how many users even a high-end PPro box will support. We don't want to make things complex for customers (or our helpdesk staff), so we want the solution to appear as simple and transparent as possible. A number of options come to mind: - Share the mail spools using NFS, either using a dedicated server like a NetApp or Auspex or using a dedicated FreeBSD box on a private 100MB network. Use multiple front-end machines to access. This has the advantage of being simple to manage, fairly reliable, and easily expandible. The lack of NFS locking, unless that's been fixed, may make this hard to do with FreeBSD, though I suppose you could reconfigure the applications to use file based locking. I don't like the idea of NFS in a production environment, but in a controlled setup like this, it should be OK. - Shared the POP boxes and load between machines. Use aliases on the incoming mail machines to make sure that a given customer's mail arrives on the right machine. The problem here is making POP work if all customers using the same name to connect. Our thoughts here are to use some sort of light-weight POP redirector that hashes or looks up the incoming username and picks the correct back-end machine to connect to. I haven't seen any software to do anything like this (anyone??), and I'm unsure about the performance aspects. - SMP with more than one PPro in the same box. I'm not sure that the SMP stuff will be ready for production use in time for us. Ideas/comments? What are other ISPs out there doing, and how might this be done with FreeBSD? Having moved so many services to FreeBSD, I don't really want to have to backtrack and get a big Sun or SGI box to do our core POP/mail stuff. -- Alan Judge Phone: +353-1-6046901 Indigo Internet Services Fax: +353-1-6046948 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 07:49:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA19980 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19965 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe.cablenet.net (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by who.cdrom.com (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id HAA24662 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe.cablenet.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01218; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:41:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3360C297.3F54BC7E@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:41:27 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve CC: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Steve wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Jason Fesler wrote: > > > At 10:53 AM 4/24/97 -0400, Steve wrote: > > > > > > > > >Anyone know how to support smtp gateways without a static IP on the > > >client's end? > > As to *really* doing SMTP to a dynamic IP, er.. ya, right. We've been doing that successfully for the last 2 years. > I thought so - but I had to take a shot in case I was living in the dark > or something. A competitor who had the world convinced he was the > largest, supported dialup SMTP. of course this was because in reality he > had 32 lines and didnt have the class C boundary crossing problems > associated with having hundreds of lines. I don't see what this has to do with it. What problems are associated with crossing Class C boundaries ? regards damian -- * PIAB - PoP In A Box - the total solution for ISPs, with more features * than a Constable landscape, and very cheap too!! * http://www.cablenet.net/cablenet/popinabox/ * Damian Hamill damian@cablenet.net From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 08:21:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22076 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22063 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04569; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:20:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Damian Hamill cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: <3360C297.3F54BC7E@cablenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Damian Hamill wrote: > Steve wrote: > > > > On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Jason Fesler wrote: > > > > > At 10:53 AM 4/24/97 -0400, Steve wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >Anyone know how to support smtp gateways without a static IP on the > > > >client's end? > > > > As to *really* doing SMTP to a dynamic IP, er.. ya, right. > > We've been doing that successfully for the last 2 years. > How do you do it? > > I thought so - but I had to take a shot in case I was living in the dark > > or something. A competitor who had the world convinced he was the > > largest, supported dialup SMTP. of course this was because in reality he > > had 32 lines and didnt have the class C boundary crossing problems > > associated with having hundreds of lines. > > I don't see what this has to do with it. What problems are associated > with crossing Class C boundaries ? I have annex4000 term servers. I can set a dedicated IP to a user, but if they connect on a term server in a different class C they get the IP but there is no route to it. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 09:58:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27030 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [204.178.32.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27023 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (spork@localhost) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA12739; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:14:01 -0400 (EDT) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Steve cc: Damian Hamill , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have annex4000 term servers. I can set a dedicated IP to a user, but if > they connect on a term server in a different class C they get the IP but > there is no route to it. The best answer I get get from Xylogics on this was to turn on RIP so that when the user dialed in, the Annex would let everything on the network see the new route. The problem is that it only updates every 30 seconds, so an impatient user would hang up thinking the link was dead. We opted to only give out static IPs on a small hunt that resides on one annex... Charles From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 10:43:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA29708 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29703 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05408; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:20:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: spork cc: Damian Hamill , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, spork wrote: > > I have annex4000 term servers. I can set a dedicated IP to a user, but if > > they connect on a term server in a different class C they get the IP but > > there is no route to it. > > The best answer I get get from Xylogics on this was to turn on RIP so that > when the user dialed in, the Annex would let everything on the network see > the new route. The problem is that it only updates every 30 seconds, so > an impatient user would hang up thinking the link was dead. We opted to > only give out static IPs on a small hunt that resides on one annex... I have active rip - perhaps I was impatient. I'll run tests tonight. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 11:53:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04256 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from red.jnx.com (red.jnx.com [208.197.169.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04236; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from base.jnx.com (base.jnx.com [208.197.169.238]) by red.jnx.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12676; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from base.jnx.com (localhost.jnx.com [127.0.0.1]) by base.jnx.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02132; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704251853.LAA02132@base.jnx.com> To: Jim Shankland cc: dg@root.com, cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu, dennis@etinc.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Router statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:19:21 PDT." <199704250519.WAA17037@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:53:12 -0700 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk There's a lot less cruft needed to flow packets out a fxp. From: Jim Shankland Subject: Re: Router statistics Paul Traina writes: > > dg@root.com (David Greenman) writes: > > > > Wcarchive does an average of 3500 pps with a peak of around > > 5000 pps. The average data rate is around 20-25Mbps, with the > > machine around 50% idle. This is using the Intel PCI > > Pro/100B...reduce the idle time to about 30% if you're using a > > DEC/de card. > > Yep, the fxp driver is /much/ more efficient than the de > driver. Oh well, fxp's are cheaper too. :-) (Sigh) Is this an attribute of the driver, or of the respective chips? I've sort of settled on 21140-based cards, and I'd hate to buy Intel stuff, as it only encourages them to take over more of the world than they already have. But for some applications, I really need high throughput and efficiency. And the card *is* cheaper. Does there have to be a switch to the fxp driver in my future? All right, I'm done whining for now. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 12:17:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA05732 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outland.cyberwar.com (root@outland.cyberwar.com [206.88.128.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05727 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zippy (zippy.cyberwar.com [206.88.128.80]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA14998; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970425151539.0095c7a0@pop.cyberwar.com> X-Sender: wjgrun@pop.cyberwar.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:15:48 -0400 To: Steve From: Bill Grunfelder Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I have annex4000 term servers. I can set a dedicated IP to a user, but if >they connect on a term server in a different class C they get the IP but >there is no route to it. How many RA4000s do you have? I have a solution (albeit an ugly one, but it works) if you've only got 2 of them, and a cisco router (not sure if it will work with others). Bill ....................................................................... Bill Grunfelder System Administrator wjgrun@cyberwar.com Cyber Warrior, Inc. http://www.cyberwar.com/~wjgrun/ (201) 703-1517 -The above does not necessarily coincide with the views of my employer- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 14:14:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12340 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12335; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA08936; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970425171236.00af5bb0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:12:49 -0400 To: dg@root.com From: dennis Subject: Re: Router statistics Cc: Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:28 PM 4/24/97 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>At 12:17 PM 4/24/97 -0400, Christopher Sedore wrote: >>> >>>Every now and then someone asks about using FreeBSD as a router/firewall. >>>I thought I'd post these stats for our router, a P90 with two DEC PCI >>>ethernet cards (10mbit), and running ipfw for filtering: >>> >>>$ netstat -I de1 >>>Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll >>>de1 1500 00.00.f8.01.29.48 563695622 59 575254062 1500 >>1378263754 >>>de1 1500 128.230.105/2 rt 563695622 59 575254062 1500 >>1378263754 >>>$ uptime >>>11:18AM up 106 days, 20:35, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 >>>$ uname -a >>>FreeBSD rt.maxwell.syr.edu 2.2-961014-SNAP FreeBSD 2.2-961014-SNAP #0: Thu >>Jan 2 >>>13:08:44 1997 cmsedore@rt.maxwell.syr.edu:/usr/src/sys/compile/RT i386 >>> >>>Now, I realize that the packet numbers do not appear to be that >>>impressive. This is because we rolled the counters so you need to add >>>2^32 to each count :). Over this roughly 107 day period, we averaged about >>>1100 packets/second. >> >> >>Has anyone done any load testing on 2.2.x lately (perhaps someone >>with a 100Mbs ethernet....I'd like to get some numbers for some >>marketing literature regarding OS throughout capability...the goal >>being to convice the world that a FreeBSD box with 16 T1 lines >>is feasible. This would require 10-15,000 pps if all of the lines >>were rather busy. > > Wcarchive does an average of 3500 pps with a peak of around 5000 pps. The >average data rate is around 20-25Mbps, with the machine around 50% idle. This >is using the Intel PCI Pro/100B...reduce the idle time to about 30% if you're >using a DEC/de card. Of importance to this stat....what is the machine CPU and speed? A Pentium pro 200Mhz? Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 14:48:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14625 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mars.aros.net (mars.aros.net [207.173.16.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14601; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.aros.net (root@shell.aros.net [207.173.16.19]) by mars.aros.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA26812; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.aros.net (msanders@localhost.aros.net [127.0.0.1]) by shell.aros.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02413; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199704252148.PAA02413@shell.aros.net> X-Attribution: msanders To: dennis cc: dg@root.com, Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Router statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:12:49 EDT." <3.0.32.19970425171236.00af5bb0@etinc.com> X-Mailer: MH 6.8.3 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:48:44 -0600 From: "Michael K. Sanders" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <3.0.32.19970425171236.00af5bb0@etinc.com>, dennis writes: >At 01:28 PM 4/24/97 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >> Wcarchive does an average of 3500 pps with a peak of around 5000 pps. The >>average data rate is around 20-25Mbps, with the machine around 50% idle. This >>is using the Intel PCI Pro/100B...reduce the idle time to about 30% if you're >>using a DEC/de card. > >Of importance to this stat....what is the machine CPU and speed? A >Pentium pro 200Mhz? 230-Welcome to wcarchive - home ftp site for Walnut Creek CDROM. ... 230-This machine is a 200MHz P6 with 512MB of memory & 106GB of disk online. 230-The operating system is FreeBSD. Should you wish to get your own copy of 230-FreeBSD, see the pub/FreeBSD directory, visit http://www.freebsd.org or 230-mail to info@FreeBSD.org for more information. FreeBSD on CDROM can be 230-ordered using the WEB at http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm or by 230-sending email to orders@cdrom.com. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 15:12:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA16067 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kerouac.deepwell.com (kerouac.deepwell.com [207.212.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16062 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baudelaire ([207.212.140.148]) by kerouac.deepwell.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12198) with SMTP id AAA205 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:06:41 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970425221114.0098232c@deepwell.com> X-Sender: Matt@deepwell.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:11:14 -0700 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Matt Eagleson Subject: Help with INN Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Im running INN for the first time, so please pardon my ignorance. Using 2.2-stable and INN 1.5.1, my errlog is filling up with messages like this: crosspost cant symlink /var/news/ithaca/jobs/1 niagara/jobs/1 : File exists Can anyone give me some clues about what is causing this?? TIA, Matt Matt Eagleson, Senior Network Administrator DeepWell Internet Services http://www.deepwell.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 15:25:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA16674 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kerouac.deepwell.com (kerouac.deepwell.com [207.212.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16669 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from baudelaire ([207.212.140.148]) by kerouac.deepwell.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12198) with SMTP id AAA178 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:19:55 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970425222428.0095f7e4@deepwell.com> X-Sender: Matt@deepwell.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:24:28 -0700 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Matt Eagleson Subject: re: Help with INN Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ummm. I think I just answered my own question. I could have sworn I added the -L flag to innd in my rc.news! Oh well... Sorry for wasting everyone's bandwidth Matt From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 15:30:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17145 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caliban.dihelix.com (caliban.dihelix.com [198.180.136.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17140; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from langfod@localhost) by caliban.dihelix.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id MAA20158; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:29:27 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199704252229.MAA20158@caliban.dihelix.com> Subject: Re: Router statistics In-Reply-To: <199704252148.PAA02413@shell.aros.net> from "Michael K. Sanders" at "Apr 25, 97 03:48:44 pm" To: msanders@aros.net (Michael K. Sanders) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:29:26 -1000 (HST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, dg@root.com, cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "David Langford" X-blank-line: This space intentionaly left blank. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Cant beleive I am even thinking this: Does Intel make a multiport board based and the Pro/100B chipset? Thanks, -David Langford langfod@dihelix.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 19:46:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00693 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwpros.com (root@nwpros.com [205.229.128.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00688 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.229.128.230] ([205.229.128.230]) by nwpros.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA09989 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:51:35 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970425204225.879f5af0@nwpros.com> X-Sender: freebsd@nwpros.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:42:25 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: "Sam Hayes Merritt, III" Subject: Okay I submit, help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have compiled and recompiled various versions of EPIC on a box i upgraded to 2.2 beta. Ever since the upgrade, epic starts, you type the irc server....and nothing. If I type the IP address it connects. How do you fix this? SIRC seems to work fine as do the previous IRCII versions. What do I need to recompile to get it working happily again. Thanks, Sam From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 20:03:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01024 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mixcom.mixcom.com (mixcom.mixcom.com [198.137.186.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01019 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mixcom.mixcom.com (8.6.12/2.2) id WAA23556; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:03:40 -0500 Received: from p75.mixcom.com(198.137.186.25) by mixcom.mixcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma023544; Sat Apr 26 03:03:15 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970425220556.00b1f020@mixcom.com> X-Sender: sysop@mixcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:05:57 -0500 To: Josef Karthauser From: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 01:51 PM 4/25/97 +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote: >Not so, You can locally receive mail into a mailbox using sendmail, >and then spawn a process that talks SMTP to send it to the customer >when they log in and you know their ip address. > >Problems: > * Remembering the envelope so that you can reconstruct it! > * Cussing and swearing because end user Microsoft machine's > have fun and games with dynamic Ip addresses and mail servers! :) This smells of a custom solution, which means there is a "how" and it takes some work. There always is a how, but something special should cost the customer for the time it takes. ;-) A few customers have wanted dial-up SMTP, but I'd not want to try the dynamic IP route. As is, one customer went from plain dial-up to dedicated for the problems on their end (also do to poor work from their consultant), which at least was not my problem. Still I did conference in several support calls and I found no end of humor in the fact that the tech from CCMail said SMTP on a non-dedicated connection is, well, discouraged. Personally I thought of something similar for one customer, but they didn't like the extra fee idea, even though I didn't name a price. 8-) ------------------------------------------- Jeff Mountin - System/Network Administrator jeff@mixcom.net MIX Communications Serving the Internet since 1990 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 20:20:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01504 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zeppelin.net (obiwan@zeppelin.net [206.170.177.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01499 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from obiwan@localhost) by zeppelin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11938; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970425204225.879f5af0@nwpros.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:21:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Josh Howard To: "Sam Hayes Merritt, III" Subject: RE: Okay I submit, help Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Try not compiling with -lresolv On 25-Apr-97 Sam Hayes Merritt, III wrote: >I have compiled and recompiled various versions of EPIC on a box i >upgraded to 2.2 >beta. Ever since the upgrade, epic starts, you type the irc server....and >nothing. If >I type the IP address it connects. How do you fix this? SIRC seems to work >fine as do >the previous IRCII versions. What do I need to recompile to get it working >happily >again. > > >Thanks, > >Sam > > --- Josh Howard (obiwan@zeppelin.net) Optimization hinders evolution. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 20:21:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01576 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01571 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA18750; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:09:36 +0800 (WST) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:09:36 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Mike Tancsa cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970420213538.009d6310@sentex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > whatever problems they have. The topper was someone who actually brought > in their PRINTER, telling us we somehow broke it after they were using > Netscape to print out something! Believe it or not, I've had that. :) *grrs at fax drivers* Adrian. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 21:06:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA03248 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03238 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA10164; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:06:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: "Jeffrey J. Mountin" cc: Josef Karthauser , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970425220556.00b1f020@mixcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Jeffrey J. Mountin wrote: > At 01:51 PM 4/25/97 +0100, Josef Karthauser wrote: > >Not so, You can locally receive mail into a mailbox using sendmail, > >and then spawn a process that talks SMTP to send it to the customer > >when they log in and you know their ip address. > > > >Problems: > > * Remembering the envelope so that you can reconstruct it! > > * Cussing and swearing because end user Microsoft machine's > > have fun and games with dynamic Ip addresses and mail servers! :) > > This smells of a custom solution, which means there is a "how" and it takes > some work. There always is a how, but something special should cost the > customer for the time it takes. ;-) > I was wondering about the sendmail switch for doing smtp on the stdin and stdout - if it wasnt possible to invoke that with a run the queue for this domain jobber using a middleman to connect to the smtp on the dialer in. Hmm.. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 21:15:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA03847 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03842 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA10289 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:16:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: user time stats Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This isnt directly related to freebsd and I apologize. Do any of you have any stat scripts for pulling usage by user from annex acp logs? From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 21:18:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA03994 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03989 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA10326; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:18:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: Matt Eagleson cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help with INN In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970425221114.0098232c@deepwell.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A need to renumber - which might be caused if you compiled using MMAP which is broken. On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Matt Eagleson wrote: > Im running INN for the first time, so please > pardon my ignorance. > Using 2.2-stable and INN 1.5.1, my > errlog is filling up with messages like > this: > > crosspost cant symlink /var/news/ithaca/jobs/1 niagara/jobs/1 : File exists > > Can anyone give me some clues about > what is causing this?? > > TIA, > Matt > Matt Eagleson, > Senior Network Administrator > DeepWell Internet Services > http://www.deepwell.com > > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 25 21:25:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA04346 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04341 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA10426; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 00:26:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve To: spork cc: Bill Grunfelder , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, spork wrote: > I remember we hacked it with two by having one default through the > other... It worked, but the one acting as the gateway for the other was > not very happy... > > Please post your solution, as Annexes amuse me to no end. They are such > evil little boxes. I've also heard (not a routing expert) that RIP v2 > updates on any change, which would solve the problem assuming the Annex > can do v2... They do rip2, but it doesnt apparently work. One person sent me a possible solution. Using 1 class C for the annex ethernet cards, and the static IPs so that the ethernet cards would proxy arp them. Then another class C for the dynamic ones assigned to modems, then static routes in ones cisco to assist the world in finding the non-statics. I think I will tell the 1 or 2 people who want smtp to buy uucp or hike. > > Charles > > On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Bill Grunfelder wrote: > > > How many RA4000s do you have? I have a solution (albeit an ugly one, but it > > works) if you've only got 2 of them, and a cisco router (not sure if it will > > work with others). > > > > > > Bill > > ....................................................................... > > Bill Grunfelder System Administrator > > wjgrun@cyberwar.com Cyber Warrior, Inc. > > http://www.cyberwar.com/~wjgrun/ (201) 703-1517 > > > > -The above does not necessarily coincide with the views of my employer- > > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 04:48:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA19586 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thecore.com (root@guardian.thecore.com [206.136.149.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA19581 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 04:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (sfinn@localhost) by thecore.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA05147; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:48:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Shaun Finn To: Steve cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: user time stats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Steve wrote: > This isnt directly related to freebsd and I apologize. > > Do any of you have any stat scripts for pulling usage by user from annex > acp logs? Check out: ftp://ftp.thecore.com/pub/unix/acp_logtime.c This is a simple C program I wrote as a prototype for a similiar program with a web interface for my dial-in users. They can now see how much time they have *wasted* on the Net ;) I never packaged this so there is no Makefile, but a generic: cc -o acp_logfile acp_logfile.c should do the trick. Once compiled, the program takes one command line argument for the username to total. The program also flags multiple logins which works well if your logfile isn't missing any important logout entries ;) Let me know if it is useful to you. +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Shaun M. Finn TechnoCore Communications, Inc. | | sfinn@thecore.com P.O. Box 106 | | (908)928-7400 FAX:(908)928-7402 Jackson, NJ 08527-0106 | +------------------- http://www.thecore.com/ ----------------------+ From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 07:17:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23343 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tok.qiv.com ([204.214.141.211]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23337 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by tok.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with UUCP id JAA22901; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:17:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (jdn@localhost) by acp.qiv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00251; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:09:20 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: acp.qiv.com: jdn owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:09:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jay D. Nelson" To: Steve cc: spork , Bill Grunfelder , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I may be too dense, but I don't understand what `dial up' SMTP gains over UUCP -- except the added IP overhead. Am I missing something or does your customer just have a burr under the blanket? -- Jay On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Steve wrote: ->On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, spork wrote: -> ->> I remember we hacked it with two by having one default through the ->> other... It worked, but the one acting as the gateway for the other was ->> not very happy... ->> ->> Please post your solution, as Annexes amuse me to no end. They are such ->> evil little boxes. I've also heard (not a routing expert) that RIP v2 ->> updates on any change, which would solve the problem assuming the Annex ->> can do v2... -> ->They do rip2, but it doesnt apparently work. One person sent me a ->possible solution. Using 1 class C for the annex ethernet cards, and the ->static IPs so that the ethernet cards would proxy arp them. Then another ->class C for the dynamic ones assigned to modems, then static routes in ->ones cisco to assist the world in finding the non-statics. -> ->I think I will tell the 1 or 2 people who want smtp to buy uucp or hike. -> ->> ->> Charles ->> ->> On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Bill Grunfelder wrote: ->> ->> > How many RA4000s do you have? I have a solution (albeit an ugly one, but it ->> > works) if you've only got 2 of them, and a cisco router (not sure if it will ->> > work with others). ->> > ->> > ->> > Bill ->> > ....................................................................... ->> > Bill Grunfelder System Administrator ->> > wjgrun@cyberwar.com Cyber Warrior, Inc. ->> > http://www.cyberwar.com/~wjgrun/ (201) 703-1517 ->> > ->> > -The above does not necessarily coincide with the views of my employer- ->> > ->> ->> -> From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 08:11:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA25142 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.mexcom.net (root@ns.mexcom.net [206.103.64.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25136 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 08:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunix (eculp@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by ns.mexcom.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03164 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:11:39 -0500 Message-ID: <33621B24.67E7BDB7@mexcom.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:11:32 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: OFF TOPIC Maybe? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We are working in Mexico and have had a very difficult time keeping connections to the U.S. Yesterday and today. It appears that the problem is there. Could someone please let us know what is happening? Thanks Ed From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 09:31:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27563 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:31:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27554; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16786; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970426123001.00b16380@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:30:10 -0400 To: "Michael K. Sanders" From: dennis Subject: Re: Router statistics Cc: dg@root.com, Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:48 PM 4/25/97 -0600, Michael K. Sanders wrote: >In message <3.0.32.19970425171236.00af5bb0@etinc.com>, dennis writes: >>At 01:28 PM 4/24/97 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>> Wcarchive does an average of 3500 pps with a peak of around 5000 pps. The >>>average data rate is around 20-25Mbps, with the machine around 50% idle. This >>>is using the Intel PCI Pro/100B...reduce the idle time to about 30% if you're >>>using a DEC/de card. >> >>Of importance to this stat....what is the machine CPU and speed? A >>Pentium pro 200Mhz? > >230-Welcome to wcarchive - home ftp site for Walnut Creek CDROM. > >... > >230-This machine is a 200MHz P6 with 512MB of memory & 106GB of disk online. >230-The operating system is FreeBSD. Should you wish to get your own copy of >230-FreeBSD, see the pub/FreeBSD directory, visit http://www.freebsd.org or >230-mail to info@FreeBSD.org for more information. FreeBSD on CDROM can be >230-ordered using the WEB at http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm or by >230-sending email to orders@cdrom.com. > "Yes" would have been adequate :-) Now I assume that this machine has a rather heavy overhead with all of the users and disk activity....do you have any estimates of the impact of this on the overall networking throughput? Obviously the SCSI activity is going to suck up much bus bandwidth..... As for the Intel Pro/100B ...is this a 10/100MB device? Does it have separate TP connectors, or 1? Are there any clones that are supported, or any versions of it that are not supported? Thanks, Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 09:57:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA28360 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sand.sentex.ca (sand.sentex.ca [206.222.77.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28355 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gravel (gravel.sentex.ca [205.211.165.210]) by sand.sentex.ca (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA03739; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970426124830.023b39f0@sentex.net> X-Sender: mdtancsa@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:48:30 -0400 To: Edwin Culp , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Maybe? (yesterday's big NET flap) In-Reply-To: <33621B24.67E7BDB7@mexcom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:11 AM 4/26/97 -0500, Edwin Culp wrote: >We are working in Mexico and have had a very difficult time >keeping connections to the U.S. Yesterday and today. It >appears that the problem is there. Could someone please >let us know what is happening? Check out www.news.com... Allegedly, a site in the US was sending out bogus BGP routes that confused a large chunk of Sprint, and then MCI and UUnet... ---------http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,10083,00.html----------------- What started out as a router glitch at a small Internet service provider in Virginia today triggered a major outage in Internet access across the country, lasting more than two hours in some places. The problem started this morning at 8:30 a.m. PT when MAI Network Services, an ISP headquartered in a Maclean, Virginia, unwittingly passed some bad router information from one of its customers onto Sprint, one of the largest Internet backbone operators in North America. Because Sprint's backbone is used by so many other smaller ISPs, the router problem was echoed, causing temporary network outages across the country and, perhaps, internationally. The outage underscored the fragility of the infrastructure that underlies the global network and how easily a problem with one small ISP can be amplified throughout the Internet. Even so, the Net displayed a remarkable resilience that seems to disprove its doomsayers, who have predicted that the network is on the verge of collapse. "This particular thing was a confluence of two or three things happening--human error, bug, and some policy problems--that all came together on the same day," said Jack Rickard, publisher of BoardWatch magazine. "There are probably a hundred guys in back rooms keeping this stuff together, just barely," Ricard said of the Internet. As of this evening, most ISPs, including Sprint, said their networks were operating normally. Earlier today, MAI Network Service, Sprint, and others appeared more actors in a comedy of networking errors. MAI's problems stemmed from bad router "table" information that directed routers operated by Sprint and other ISPs to transmit all Internet traffic to MAI's network. Routers are the hubs that guide data traffic throughout networks; router tables are essentially network road maps for directing data from router to router. MAI's networks was almost instantly overwhelmed by all of the traffic pointing to its routers and disconnected itself from the Internet by 9:15 a.m. PT. A number of major ISPs, including Sprint and UUNet, saw their networks turned into data "black holes" since most Internet routers were directing traffic to MAI. Vincent Bono, director of the network services group at MAI, said there are safeguards that should have prevented the router table errors for being propagated throughout the network, but he was unsure why they didn't work. "When you have thousands of routers, incorrect routing tables can have lots of problems," Bono said. "In theory, the minute we unplugged ourselves everything should have gone back to normal. We are not hooking back until we are certain we're not going to do it again." Today, a spokesman for Sprint said that its network was down between 8:30 a.m. and 10:30 a.m. PT, when it finally corrected its routing tables. "Sprint recognized the situation and immediately began corrective action, including notifying other Internet backbone providers," Sprint said in a statement. Sprint spokesman Charles Fleckenstein said the problem was not exclusive to the East Coast and could even have affected Internet access internationally. Sprint and other access providers were able to correct the problem by resetting their routing tables. ISPs around the country reported problems with their networks. A spokeswoman for UUNet Technologies said that its network was affected on the West Coast for a short time but that it is functioning normally now. Leonard Conn, chief executive of Oklahoma ISP Ionet, said his network was disconnected from other access providers for about 30 minutes, though users could communicate within Ionet's service. One analyst said that the Internet is bound to experience more problems like today's outage but predicted that they would be manageable. "Outages like this are very important to track," said Rebecca Wedsell, an Internet analyst for the TeleChoice consultancy. However, she added, "the problems will not bring the system to its knees." ---------------------------- ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa (mike@sentex.net) * To do is to be -- Nietzsche Sentex Communications Corp, * To be is to do -- Sartre Cambridge, Ontario * Do be do be do -- Sinatra (http://www.sentex.net/~mdtancsa) * From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 15:20:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA12982 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from user1.channel1.com (user1.channel1.com [199.1.13.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12971 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from node114.channel1.com (node114.channel1.com [204.96.33.214]) by user1.channel1.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA07066; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970427061639.00e96714@pop.channel1.com> X-Sender: mtw@pop.channel1.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:16:39 -0400 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Matthew White Subject: kernel panics Cc: brian@user1.channel1.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello All- I got this console message the other day. Then a linux kernel panics and you get a message like this, you're supposed to mail it to Linus. Is there a person in the FreeBSD development team that gets these messages? Can anyone on the list tell me what this means? Another box on our network did the same thing, until we replaced the overheating hard drive. Would that cause these panics? The box is a P-166, 128MB RAM, 8GB (AHA-2940) disk, 2.1.6. It does NFS exporting to our web server, POP email, telnet sessions, and primary DNS. Fatal Trap 12 Page fault while in kernel mode Fault virtual address = 0x0 Fault code = supervisor write, page not present Instruction pointer: 0x8: 0xf017a65 Code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL, 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 Processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 Current process = 95 nfsd Interrupt Mask = Panic: page fault Thanks, Matthew Matthew White Network Administrator Channel 1 Communications (617)864-0100 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 15:44:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA14738 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14727 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA25314; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704262246.PAA25314@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Edwin Culp cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Maybe? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 26 Apr 1997 10:11:32 CDT." <33621B24.67E7BDB7@mexcom.net> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:46:01 -0700 Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >We are working in Mexico and have had a very difficult time >keeping connections to the U.S. Yesterday and today. It >appears that the problem is there. Could someone please >let us know what is happening? I've seen numerous "emergency maintenance" announcements from Sprint, MCI, and NWnet over the past 4 days or so - all related to backbone routers, so I guess it's no surprise that you're having problems. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 15:54:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA15144 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15132; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by root.com (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA25437; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704262255.PAA25437@root.com> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.root.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis cc: "Michael K. Sanders" , Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Router statistics In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:30:10 EDT." <3.0.32.19970426123001.00b16380@etinc.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 15:55:28 -0700 Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >Now I assume that this machine has a rather heavy overhead with all of the >users >and disk activity....do you have any estimates of the impact of this on the >overall >networking throughput? Obviously the SCSI activity is going to suck up much >bus bandwidth..... The numbers are packet sends/receives to user processes throught the TCP/IP stack. I would expect the packet forwording capability to be much greater. The majority of the CPU time is spent doing file related things, not networking. >As for the Intel Pro/100B ...is this a 10/100MB device? Does it have separate >TP connectors, or 1? Are there any clones that are supported, or any versions >of it that are not supported? 10/100, one connection, one vendor. The one vendor is a good thing, however, because the design isn't "pot luck" and the device driver is much less complicated as well. Or in other words, good for users, bad for Intel haters. The chip is available from Intel for people if they want to make clone cards, however. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 17:01:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA17924 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17918; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA19486; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970426200011.00b9aad0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 20:00:18 -0400 To: dg@root.com From: dennis Subject: Re: Router statistics Cc: "Michael K. Sanders" , Christopher Sedore , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:55 PM 4/26/97 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>Now I assume that this machine has a rather heavy overhead with all of the >>users >>and disk activity....do you have any estimates of the impact of this on the >>overall >>networking throughput? Obviously the SCSI activity is going to suck up much >>bus bandwidth..... > > The numbers are packet sends/receives to user processes throught the >TCP/IP stack. I would expect the packet forwording capability to be much >greater. The majority of the CPU time is spent doing file related things, >not networking. > >>As for the Intel Pro/100B ...is this a 10/100MB device? Does it have separate >>TP connectors, or 1? Are there any clones that are supported, or any versions >>of it that are not supported? > > 10/100, one connection, one vendor. The one vendor is a good thing, >however, because the design isn't "pot luck" and the device driver is >much less complicated as well. Or in other words, good for users, bad >for Intel haters. The chip is available from Intel for people if they >want to make clone cards, however. Thats good....and I've seen them for $139. (a good price?), which isn't bad at all. I did notice that its a rather long card, which may be an issue..... Dennis > >-DG > >David Greenman >Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 17:22:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18979 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fragile.ideal.net.au (rob@fragile.ideal.net.au [203.20.241.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18973 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rob@localhost) by fragile.ideal.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA11774; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:22:13 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:22:12 +1000 (EST) From: Rob Wise To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: user time stats In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-WonK: Hmm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Steve wrote: > This isnt directly related to freebsd and I apologize. > > Do any of you have any stat scripts for pulling usage by user from annex > acp logs? On a similar note.. Does anybody have a script to convert from radius logfile to acp logfile, or the other way around? It would make life a lot easier :) Rob From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 17:45:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20139 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (root@agora.rdrop.com [199.2.210.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA20096; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by agora.rdrop.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #17) id m0wLI59-0009CqC; Sat, 26 Apr 97 17:44 PDT Message-Id: From: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) Subject: Re: Router statistics To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dg@root.com, msanders@aros.net, cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970426200011.00b9aad0@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Apr 26, 97 08:00:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I did notice that its a rather long card, which may be an issue..... Then it wasn't a Pro/100B --- it's so short they had to put a little tail on it for some of the PCI fingers. -- Alan Batie ______ It's not my fault! It's some guy batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / named "General Protection"! +1 503 452-0960 \ / --Ratbert PGP FP: DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 \/ 7A 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 18:57:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22964 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:57:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22959; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 18:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA20244; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970426215514.00b6b4d0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 21:55:24 -0400 To: batie@agora.rdrop.com (Alan Batie) From: dennis Subject: Re: Router statistics Cc: dg@root.com, msanders@aros.net, cmsedore@mailbox.syr.edu, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:44 PM 4/26/97 -0700, Alan Batie wrote: >> I did notice that its a rather long card, which may be an issue..... > >Then it wasn't a Pro/100B --- it's so short they had to put a little tail >on it for some of the PCI fingers. Ah, yes....I was going to ask about that next....obviously they went to a single chip solutions....excellent! Dennis > >-- >Alan Batie ______ It's not my fault! It's some guy >batie@agora.rdrop.com \ / named "General Protection"! >+1 503 452-0960 \ / --Ratbert >PGP FP: DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 \/ 7A 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 > >It is my policy to avoid purchase of any products from companies which >use unrequested email advertisements or telephone solicitation. > > From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Apr 26 19:23:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23768 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA23763 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet7.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet7.buffnet.net [205.246.19.28]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18468; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:22:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Hovey To: "Jay D. Nelson" cc: spork , Bill Grunfelder , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SMTP gateway clients In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk They said, and I quote - "Im not spending $1000 on a new gateway just to make up for your deficiencies." So actually I dont know why I give a flip. On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Jay D. Nelson wrote: > I may be too dense, but I don't understand what `dial up' SMTP gains over > UUCP -- except the added IP overhead. Am I missing something or does your > customer just have a burr under the blanket? > > -- Jay > > On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Steve wrote: > > ->On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, spork wrote: > -> > ->> I remember we hacked it with two by having one default through the > ->> other... It worked, but the one acting as the gateway for the other was > ->> not very happy... > ->> > ->> Please post your solution, as Annexes amuse me to no end. They are such > ->> evil little boxes. I've also heard (not a routing expert) that RIP v2 > ->> updates on any change, which would solve the problem assuming the Annex > ->> can do v2... > -> > ->They do rip2, but it doesnt apparently work. One person sent me a > ->possible solution. Using 1 class C for the annex ethernet cards, and the > ->static IPs so that the ethernet cards would proxy arp them. Then another > ->class C for the dynamic ones assigned to modems, then static routes in > ->ones cisco to assist the world in finding the non-statics. > -> > ->I think I will tell the 1 or 2 people who want smtp to buy uucp or hike. > -> > ->> > ->> Charles > ->> > ->> On Fri, 25 Apr 1997, Bill Grunfelder wrote: > ->> > ->> > How many RA4000s do you have? I have a solution (albeit an ugly one, but it > ->> > works) if you've only got 2 of them, and a cisco router (not sure if it will > ->> > work with others). > ->> > > ->> > > ->> > Bill > ->> > ....................................................................... > ->> > Bill Grunfelder System Administrator > ->> > wjgrun@cyberwar.com Cyber Warrior, Inc. > ->> > http://www.cyberwar.com/~wjgrun/ (201) 703-1517 > ->> > > ->> > -The above does not necessarily coincide with the views of my employer- > ->> > > ->> > ->> > -> > >