From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Aug 10 07:02:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA21941 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca (root@bsd1.lannon.qc.ca [207.253.12.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA21936 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Default (port152.ireseau.com [206.47.102.152]) by lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA13304 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:00:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:00:54 -0400 Message-Id: <199708101400.KAA13304@lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca> X-Sender: admin@lannon.qc.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: admin@lannon.qc.ca (Real Melancon) Subject: Backup script... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA21937 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm looking for an efficient script, written in Perl or Shell for my daily backups. Something simple that would: Once a week: - Erase the tape - Backup critical files - Backup all files Once a day: - Backup all modified files. Any answer would be appreciated. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Salutations Réal Melançon - Programmeur/Analyste Internet L`Annonciation (http://lannon.qc.ca) Developpement de sites Web. Intranets. Formation. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Aug 10 07:34:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23279 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nak.myhouse.com (nak.myhouse.com [209.70.45.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA23271 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19980 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Aug 1997 14:33:56 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 10:33:56 -0400 (EDT) From: zoonie To: Real Melancon cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Backup script... In-Reply-To: <199708101400.KAA13304@lannon.qc.ca.lannon.qc.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id HAA23272 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk have you looked at amanda? you can find it at ftp.cs.umd.edu.... On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Real Melancon wrote: > > I'm looking for an efficient script, written in Perl or Shell > for my daily backups. > > Something simple that would: > > Once a week: > - Erase the tape > - Backup critical files > - Backup all files > > Once a day: > - Backup all modified files. > > Any answer would be appreciated. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Salutations > Réal Melançon - Programmeur/Analyste > Internet L`Annonciation (http://lannon.qc.ca) > Developpement de sites Web. Intranets. Formation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Aug 10 07:34:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA23401 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kaori.communique.net (kaori.communique.net [204.27.67.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23396 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by kaori.communique.net with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:33:58 -0500 Message-ID: From: Raul Zighelboim To: "'isp@freebsd.org'" Subject: bind and multiple systems with multiple addresses.... Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:33:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello there! I am running freebsd 2.2.2-RELEASE on a server with many IP addresses. some 400 of them. I also run bind on this system. The system listens for DNS requests on eache one of those IP addresses, and I imagine that inetd is doing this too. So, my questions: Is this a resource hug ? Is there a way to limit the IP addresses bind listen on ? Is there a way to limit the IP addresses inetd listens on ? I would like to have thses (and others) processes to listen on 2 IPS only (localhost and the 'DNS' ip of the server. Thanks. From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Aug 10 12:02:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07055 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from millennianet.com (root@millennianet.com [206.71.161.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA07050 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eclipse (dt3h1nd2.san.rr.com [204.210.19.210]) by millennianet.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA29319; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970810115210.00c71e00@mail.mill.net> X-Sender: matt@mail.mill.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:52:10 -0700 To: Bernie Doehner From: Matt Wilbur Subject: Re: freebsd/dhcp on Cox's cable system. Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:49 PM 8/8/97 -0400, you wrote: > >One of our side projects is to research how to set up a FreeBSD box on >Cox's cable system with a Motorola CATV modem and use DHCP to get the >address from Cox's dhcp server. > >Has anyone on this list done anything like it? I'd like to find out if >wide-dhcp will work out of the box for this application or might require >some retuning. > Bernie, I've been using the wide-dhcp client for about three weeks now with nary a problem, to obtain an address from roadrunner's DHCP server.. One minor caveat is to be patient, it takes nearly a minute sometimes, my impatience led me astray initially.. ;-) Matt /////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Matt Wilbur Support the Anti-Spam amendment Photon Research Associates Join at http://www.cauce.org/ From owner-freebsd-isp Sun Aug 10 16:42:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23989 for isp-outgoing; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from css.tuu.utas.edu.au (acs@css.tuu.utas.edu.au [131.217.115.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23982 for ; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 16:42:08 -0700 (PDT) From: andrew@ugh.net.au Received: from localhost (acs@localhost) by css.tuu.utas.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13481; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:42:19 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: depravitas.tuu.utas.edu.au: acs owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:42:19 +1000 (EST) To: Raul Zighelboim cc: "'isp@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: bind and multiple systems with multiple addresses.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Meaning-of-Life: none X-WonK: *wibble* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Raul Zighelboim wrote: > Is there a way to limit the IP addresses bind listen on ? Upgrade BIND to a recent version....8.something I think...www.isc.org. You can then specify in your config file... Andrew From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Aug 11 07:37:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA06657 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from virtualmarketing.com (email.virtualmarketing.com [207.7.29.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06650 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntserver2 (207.7.29.113) by virtualmarketing.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.2b2); Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:38:35 -0600 Message-ID: <33EF23D2.997144F1@v-m.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:38:10 -0500 From: Marcin Pasek Reply-To: marcin@v-m.com Organization: US Web X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ascend 50 ISDN /U .... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ascend 50 ISDN router for Sale....Was used for 4 month and still under warranty. Chicagoland offers only I am not going to send this thing ..UPS is still on strike.... $500 O.B.O ( Or Better Offer) Marcin From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Aug 11 08:26:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA09760 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA09753 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA11520 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:26:08 -0700 (PDT) To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ascend 50 ISDN /U .... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:38:10 CDT." <33EF23D2.997144F1@v-m.com> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: <11516.871313168@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ummm. Though I'm really quite sure that the answer to this question is already fairly adequately covered by the "bylaws" of freebsd-isp, I just thought I'd ask the readership what it thought of the idea of commercial "got xxx for sale, $yyy" and "need xxx, will pay up to $yyy" sorts of messages in this mailing list. Would you say: [ ] Any kind of commercial solicitation is bad - I don't want to see it; stick to the freebsd-isp charter. [ ] I don't mind a few such messages, just so long as the deals are good. [ ] Anything that's pertinent to *either* an ISP or a FreeBSD using ISP is fine by me - open it up. I'm just going for a rough straw poll here - don't spend a lot of time on this question. :-) Follow-ups to me please, kindly *eliminating* any cc line! We really don't need to see this mailing list totally spammed with dozens of "here's my vote back!" messages and I'll be sure to follow up with a summary of the "votes" I get, not to worry. Jordan -- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:38:10 -0500 From: Marcin Pasek Reply-To: marcin@v-m.com Organization: US Web X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ascend 50 ISDN /U .... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ascend 50 ISDN router for Sale....Was used for 4 month and still under warranty. Chicagoland offers only I am not going to send this thing ..UPS is still on strike.... $500 O.B.O ( Or Better Offer) Marcin From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Aug 11 20:06:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA21518 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from css.tuu.utas.edu.au (acs@css.tuu.utas.edu.au [131.217.115.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21501 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:05:52 -0700 (PDT) From: andrew@ugh.net.au Received: from localhost (acs@localhost) by css.tuu.utas.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA20932 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:07:34 +1000 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: depravitas.tuu.utas.edu.au: acs owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:07:34 +1000 (EST) To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Holding mail overnight Message-ID: X-Meaning-of-Life: none X-WonK: *wibble* MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, What do people recommend for holding mail overnight? We have a customer who has a permanent modem connection from 8am to 5pm and wants a box at their end to handle mail. I can just put an MX record in but then you get "cannot be delivered for 4 hours" messages. Should I try UUCP over TCP? Thanks, Andrew From owner-freebsd-isp Mon Aug 11 21:03:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA25850 for isp-outgoing; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25831 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12542; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:04:36 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:04:34 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: andrew@ugh.net.au cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Holding mail overnight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 andrew@ugh.net.au wrote: > What do people recommend for holding mail overnight? We have a customer > who has a permanent modem connection from 8am to 5pm and wants a box at > their end to handle mail. > > I can just put an MX record in but then you get "cannot be delivered for > 4 hours" messages. Should I try UUCP over TCP? Why 8am-5pm? Do you use the modem in your rotary at night? It depends on what is at the other end, but I have had a customer using uucp over tcp for the last 18 months. Works fine. You can change the 4hours if you like, too, to say 24 hours but it does not cover the weekends. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 00:09:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA06505 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06492 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.8.4/8.6.9) id PAA23245 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:16:22 GMT Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:16:22 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199708121516.PAA23245@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: change the domain name? Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, the NIC of China asked us to change all the co.cn domain to com.cn. That is my haplink.co.cn must change to haplink.com.cn. Not right now but must do it before 1 Sept. During this period, the NIC can let both exist. So, now at my name server host, I have configured another domain haplink.com.cn point to the same host with haplink.co.cn. The web, ftp etc server works without no problem but the mail server can not work. I mean, I can NOT send mail to user@mailhost.haplink.com.cn, always get the "mail loop back to myself" error. I only changed the DNS server configuration. How can I configure the sendmail to let it handle the messages to haplink.co.cn and haplink.com.cn? Best regaurds! --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 00:32:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA07635 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.leissner.se (gate.leissner.se [193.45.192.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA07627 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leissner.se (uucp@localhost) by gate.leissner.se (8.8.5/8.8.4) with UUCP id HAA08544 for freebsd.org!freebsd-isp; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:32:51 GMT Received: from lda.leissner.se by lda.leissner.se id aa03543; 12 Aug 97 9:32 SST Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970812093239.006fb360@lda> X-Sender: pol@lda X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:32:40 +0200 To: xiyuan qian , freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Peter Olsson Subject: Re: change the domain name? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello! >but the mail server can not work. I mean, I can NOT send mail to >user@mailhost.haplink.com.cn, always get the "mail loop back to myself" error. >I only changed the DNS server configuration. How can I configure the sendmail >to let it handle the messages to haplink.co.cn and haplink.com.cn? You must have this new domain in either sendmail.cf or sendmail.cw. Your old domain should be in there somewhere, use that as example. Peter Olsson pol@leissner.se From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 01:07:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA08891 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08879 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13663; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:09:20 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:09:19 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Peter Olsson cc: xiyuan qian , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: change the domain name? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970812093239.006fb360@lda> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Peter Olsson wrote: > Hello! > > >but the mail server can not work. I mean, I can NOT send mail to > >user@mailhost.haplink.com.cn, always get the "mail loop back to myself" > error. > >I only changed the DNS server configuration. How can I configure the sendmail > >to let it handle the messages to haplink.co.cn and haplink.com.cn? > > You must have this new domain in either sendmail.cf or sendmail.cw. > Your old domain should be in there somewhere, use that as example. No, the old domain is not necessarily there, as sendmail can often determine the correct name. However, you should change the hostname setting in /etc/rc.conf (or /etc/sysconfig) to the new name and add the old name to /etc/sendmail.cw or in /etc/sendmail.cf put a line Cw haplink.co.cn Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 01:12:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA09197 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hughes.net (mail.hughes.net [205.139.34.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09191; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kevenp ([205.139.43.211]) by mail.hughes.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13727) with SMTP id AAA27706; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:07:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970812010907.0091dad0@mail.hughes.net> X-Sender: kevenp@mail.hughes.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:09:07 -0700 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Kevin Peteron Subject: IP and routing Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Hope someone can help me. Trying to setup my subnet with 6 machines. My provider is out of subnet IP's to assign to me. Using Class A network numbers to try and make this work. I know this would be a lot easier with a router, but with ISDN rates changing, putting that 200-hour cap on, any way can't have full time connection right now. Anyway I am somewhat of a newbie to FreeBSD. I will try to explain as best as I can what I have done so far. ISDN dial up with dedicated IP (205.139.43.211 netmask 255.255.255.255) connected to NT 4.0. NT 4.0 network card is set to 192.168.0.3 netmask 255.255.255.0. The NT machine will not let me set the network card to 205.139.43.211 netmask 255.255.255.255. Says netmask invalid. NT 4.0 machine network card connected to HUB. FreeBSD (Ver. 2.2.2) machine with 2 network cards. One card set to 192.168.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 and the other card set to 205.139.43.211 netmask 255.255.255.255. Both cards are connected to HUB. Also have Network Address Translation Daemon installed, but do not know if it is working correctly. The other 4 machines are Win95 with one network card each. Using 192.168.0.4/7 netmask 255.255.255.0. The FreeBSD box is setup to be my second domain. My first domain my provider is hosting. I am trying to make it use the NT 4.0 as its route out to the Internet, only to be accessed when the NT 4.0 machine is connected. I have been told that the FreeBSD box will spool its mail until connected? When I telnet to the FreeBSD box, I can only get to it on 192.168.0.1. I maybe am going about this in the totally wrong direction. Please send any suggestions that you might have. Thank you, Kevin Design USA Kevin Peterson http://www.designusa.com kevin@designusa.com 805.533.5526 From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 02:17:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA12091 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12086; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 02:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA13938; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:18:59 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:18:58 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Kevin Peteron cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP and routing In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970812010907.0091dad0@mail.hughes.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Kevin Peteron wrote: > Trying to setup my subnet with 6 machines. My provider is out of subnet IP's to assign to me. Using Class A network numbers to try and make this work. I know this would be a lot easier with a router, but with ISDN rates changing, putting that 200-hour cap on, any way can't have full time connection right now. Anyway I am somewhat of a newbie to FreeBSD. I will try to explain as best as I can what I have done so far. > > ISDN dial up with dedicated IP (205.139.43.211 netmask 255.255.255.255) > connected to NT 4.0. > > NT 4.0 network card is set to 192.168.0.3 netmask 255.255.255.0. The NT machine will not let me set the network card to 205.139.43.211 netmask 255.255.255.255. Says netmask invalid. NT 4.0 machine network card connected to HUB. NT's IP is about 5 years behind the times. > FreeBSD (Ver. 2.2.2) machine with 2 network cards. One card set to 192.168.0.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 and the other card set to 205.139.43.211 netmask 255.255.255.255. Both cards are connected to HUB. Also have Network Address Translation Daemon installed, but do not know if it is working correctly. You are going about this the wrong way. Is it possible for you to put the ISDN onto FreeBSD? Is it a modem-like TA? If you can do this, then do so (read the docs on ppp, see /etc/ppp/*) Then you can put NAT onto FreeBSD. You can't run NAT on FreeBSD if your legal IP address is on the NT box. You can't use the same IP address on both the NT and FreeBSD boxes. What you need is ISP------FreeBSD----HUB---{Win95+Win95} FreeBSD should be 205.139.43.211 on ppp0 or tun0 (according to which ppp you use) and 192.168.0.1 on ethernet. /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 07:40:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA25284 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netrail.net (netrail.net [205.215.10.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25279 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jonz@localhost) by netrail.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA07349; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:39:26 GMT Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:39:26 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jonathan A. Zdziarski" To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: andrew@ugh.net.au, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Holding mail overnight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I usually put them in as primary MX and us as secondary - never got any 'could not be delivered' messages. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan A. Zdziarski NetRail Incorporated Server Engineering Manager 230 Peachtree St. Suite 500 jonz@netrail.net Atlanta, GA 30303 http://www.netrail.net (888) - NETRAIL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: : :On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 andrew@ugh.net.au wrote: : :> What do people recommend for holding mail overnight? We have a customer :> who has a permanent modem connection from 8am to 5pm and wants a box at :> their end to handle mail. :> :> I can just put an MX record in but then you get "cannot be delivered for :> 4 hours" messages. Should I try UUCP over TCP? : :Why 8am-5pm? Do you use the modem in your rotary at night? :It depends on what is at the other end, but I have had a customer using :uucp over tcp for the last 18 months. Works fine. :You can change the 4hours if you like, too, to say 24 hours but it does :not cover the weekends. : :Danny : From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 10:41:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA06352 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccsales.ccsales.com (ccsales.ccsales.com [207.137.172.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06331; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy Katz To: questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org Subject: ALIASES - HELP! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I upgraded my sendmail to 8.8.7. When I try to do a sendmail -bi (update the aliases) it complains about my aliases: It says cannot alias non-local names. These are aliases which were there before. None of them seem to work. I'm not sure what's wrong or if there is another way to handle aliases. Please help! Thanx, Randy Katz From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 11:32:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09697 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bert.club-web.com (bert.club-web.com [207.176.196.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09678 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from club-web.com (ernie.club-web.com [207.176.196.12]) by bert.club-web.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA01460 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33F0ACED.AD55D014@club-web.com> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:35:25 -0400 From: Mark Segal Organization: Club-Web Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02b7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: IMAP servers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just a few questions, I've been thinking about setting up an IMAP server (well do to requests for it). and i have a few questions to the learned amoungst us. 1) What is the best package ie (port) 2) Why did u set it up, what are the advantages to it? thanxs, mark -- Mark Segal mark@club-web.com System Administrator - Club-Web Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 12:43:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14032 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet4.buffnet.net (buffnet4.buffnet.net [205.246.19.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14027 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffnet11.buffnet.net (shovey@buffnet11.buffnet.net [205.246.19.55]) by buffnet4.buffnet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11489; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:43:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Hovey To: Mark Segal cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IMAP servers In-Reply-To: <33F0ACED.AD55D014@club-web.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Mark Segal wrote: > Just a few questions, > > I've been thinking about setting up an IMAP server (well do to > requests for it). and i have a few questions to the learned amoungst us. > > 1) What is the best package ie (port) i use the one from washington.edu (the pine people) and their pop daemon - it makes a dummy messages, first in the inbox so you need both if your users use both in order to not see the dummy. > 2) Why did u set it up, what are the advantages to it? My pine users use IMAP to get mail from across multiple servers. From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 12:56:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15017 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from info.tsu.tomsk.su (info.tsu.tomsk.su [194.226.48.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14962 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by info.tsu.tomsk.su (8.8.5/8.8.2) with UUCP id DAA08215 for isp@freebsd.org; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:56:41 +0800 (TSD) Received: (from vas@localhost) by vas.tomsk.su (8.8.5/8.8.3) id UAA01414 for isp@freebsd.org; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:42:48 +0800 (TSD) From: Victor Sudakov Message-Id: <199708101242.UAA01414@vas.tomsk.su> Subject: bulk mailer To: isp@freebsd.org (freebsd isp mailing list) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:42:47 +0800 (TSD) Organization: Tomsk Region Education Department X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello Colleagues. Do you think it was a wise idea to include a bulk mailer into the ports collection? It looks like encouraging spammers. -- Victor Sudakov http://www.tomsk.su/r/persons/vas.htm From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 13:09:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16245 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16240; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool44.hiper.net [207.137.172.44]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA25409; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970812125629.00b3fe60@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 12:56:29 -0700 To: "Jonathan A. Zdziarski" From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Re: ALIASES - HELP! (fwd) Cc: support@FreeBSD.ORG, support@cdrom.com, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, randyk@ccsales.com In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk NO. I am also using virtual mappings and have been for some time. These are aliases which point to a group of valid email addresses. They don't work on my system now. postmaster: root does not work, none of them work. I've gone through the sendmail.cf file and it looks exactly the same as the old one with respect to aliases. I don't understand this. I also have aliases like: staff: bill, george, james virtual mappings do not let one map to more then one mail address. HELP HELP HELP .!!!!!!! At 04:00 PM 8/12/97 +0000, Jonathan A. Zdziarski wrote: >What this probably means is you're trying to alias on username to >somewhere else not local (for example george to george@aol.com or vice >versa). To set that up, you need to set up a virtual mapping - it's an >option you can feed into the sendmail package and it will create a >sendmail.cf file that will allow you to do this. Check www.sendmail.org >for instructions on how to do it (I believe they're on there). > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jonathan A. Zdziarski NetRail Incorporated >Server Engineering Manager 230 Peachtree St. Suite 500 >jonz@netrail.net Atlanta, GA 30303 >http://www.netrail.net (888) - NETRAIL >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Randy Katz wrote: > >:Hello, >: >:I upgraded my sendmail to 8.8.7. When I try to do a sendmail -bi (update >:the aliases) it complains about my aliases: It says cannot alias >:non-local names. These are aliases which were there before. None of them >:seem to work. I'm not sure what's wrong or if there is another way to >:handle aliases. >: >:Please help! >: >: >:Thanx, >:Randy Katz >: > > From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 14:12:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA20809 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wopr.inetu.net (wopr.inetu.net [207.18.13.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20802 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dev@localhost) by wopr.inetu.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA09738; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:17:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dev Chanchani To: Victor Sudakov cc: freebsd isp mailing list Subject: Re: bulk mailer In-Reply-To: <199708101242.UAA01414@vas.tomsk.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You know, some time ago, I remember people bashing the web because a lot of "newbies" got on the net. Would it be fair to say why do we include a web server with FreeBSD? I hate spam. I even setup a site SpamSucks.com (which I had to kill due to lack of time). But I beleive in a persons right to leave that decision up to themselves. I don't believe we should bring such politics into freebsd and act as a judge for what ports are included and what ports are not. I think this program has a right to be there. Regards, Dev On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Victor Sudakov wrote: > Hello Colleagues. > > Do you think it was a wise idea to include a bulk mailer into the ports > collection? It looks like encouraging spammers. > > > -- > Victor Sudakov > http://www.tomsk.su/r/persons/vas.htm > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 14:28:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21963 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uhf.wdc.net (uhf.4d.net [207.137.157.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21957 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bad@localhost) by uhf.wdc.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA06487; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:32:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Doehner X-Sender: bad@uhf.wdc.net To: Victor Sudakov cc: freebsd isp mailing list Subject: Re: bulk mailer In-Reply-To: <199708101242.UAA01414@vas.tomsk.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hello Colleagues. > > Do you think it was a wise idea to include a bulk mailer into the ports > collection? It looks like encouraging spammers. > > > -- > Victor Sudakov > http://www.tomsk.su/r/persons/vas.htm Hi Victor/Gang: PLEASE DON'T DO IT! The disadvantages heavily outway the advantages (actualy, I can't come up with any advantages, or maybe the barrage of recent SPAM has made me very very very bitter). Bernie From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 14:46:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23150 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23140 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA16862; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:48:32 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:48:31 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Jonathan A. Zdziarski" cc: andrew@ugh.net.au, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Holding mail overnight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Jonathan A. Zdziarski wrote: > I usually put them in as primary MX and us as secondary - never got any > 'could not be delivered' messages. You'll get messages in your log file - "deferred, timed out during startup with...". Depending on the config of your sendmail, a warning could be sent to the sender of the message. /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 15:15:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA24981 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.gamespot.com (ns2.gamespot.com [206.169.18.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24975 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tiramisu.gamespot.com (tiramisu.gamespot.com [206.169.18.119]) by ns2.gamespot.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05990 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970812151655.012524a0@mail.gamespot.com> X-Sender: ian@mail.gamespot.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:16:55 -0700 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Ian Kallen Subject: Re: bulk mailer In-Reply-To: References: <199708101242.UAA01414@vas.tomsk.su> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk See, you can include the port with no spam hazards if people don't know how to use ports ;) At 05:32 PM 8/12/97 -0400, you wrote: >> Hello Colleagues. >> >> Do you think it was a wise idea to include a bulk mailer into the ports >> collection? It looks like encouraging spammers. >> >> >> -- >> Victor Sudakov >> http://www.tomsk.su/r/persons/vas.htm > >Hi Victor/Gang: > >PLEASE DON'T DO IT! The disadvantages heavily outway the advantages >(actualy, I can't come up with any advantages, or maybe the barrage >of recent SPAM has made me very very very bitter). > >Bernie > > > -- Ian Kallen ian@gamespot.com Director of Technology and Web Administration SpotMedia Communications http://www.gamespot.com/ http://www.videogamespot.com/ From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 15:25:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA25940 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gfoster.intr.net (gfoster.intr.net [207.32.93.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25928 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by gfoster.intr.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA25530; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708122224.SAA25530@gfoster.intr.net> From: Glen Foster To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: "bulk mailer" in FreeBSD ports Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Presuming that the ruckus is about /usr/ports/mail/bulk_mailer, perhaps those getting excited should familiarize themselves with the use and intent of the program before getting all exercised about the name? Glen Foster From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 15:42:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA27269 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.sirius.com (mail3.sirius.com [205.134.253.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27264 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ds9.sirius.com (ds9.sirius.com [205.134.226.34]) by mail3.sirius.com (8.8.7/Sirius-8.8.7-97.08.04) with ESMTP id PAA07718; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (dlowe@localhost) by ds9.sirius.com (8.6.12/961127) with SMTP id PAA00689; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:41:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ds9.sirius.com: dlowe owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:41:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe X-Sender: dlowe@ds9 To: Victor Sudakov cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: bulk mailer In-Reply-To: <199708101242.UAA01414@vas.tomsk.su> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Victor and ISP-people - This port is actually a program designed for use with majordomo - it simply sorts the list by domain name for feeding to sendmail. It significantly improves the throughput of large majordomo mailing lists (or any other mailing list that uses a plaintext address list.) I don't think this particular tool would be useful to a spammer. I was the person who ported this software, because I found it invaluable as an add-on to majordomo when managing large lists. It's not important to keep it in the ports collection if it's going to cause a lot of misgivings (it's a very simple program, and a very very simple port, and easy enough to find.) At any rate, it's not my decision. Just thought I would state the intention of the (poorly named) software in question. Thanks, David Lowe On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Victor Sudakov wrote: > Hello Colleagues. > > Do you think it was a wise idea to include a bulk mailer into the ports > collection? It looks like encouraging spammers. > > > -- > Victor Sudakov > http://www.tomsk.su/r/persons/vas.htm > > From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 15:46:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA27508 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uhf.wdc.net (uhf.wdc.net [198.147.74.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27492 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bad@localhost) by uhf.wdc.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA06763; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:50:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Doehner X-Sender: bad@uhf.wdc.net To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: "Jonathan A. Zdziarski" , andrew@ugh.net.au, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Holding mail overnight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I usually put them in as primary MX and us as secondary - never got any > > 'could not be delivered' messages. > > You'll get messages in your log file - "deferred, timed out during > startup with...". Depending on the config of your sendmail, a warning > could be sent to the sender of the message. This won't happen if you set the OT macro in sendmail.cf so that temporarily undeliverable message won't timeout. bernie From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 16:30:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00817 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00810 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:30:43 -0700 (PDT) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.65] by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0wyQOg-0000UT-00; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:30:42 -0700 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA21989; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:28:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 16:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: Re: IMAP servers To: Mark Segal cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <33F0ACED.AD55D014@club-web.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just a few questions, > > I've been thinking about setting up an IMAP server (well do to > requests for it). and i have a few questions to the learned amoungst us. > > 1) What is the best package ie (port) > 2) Why did u set it up, what are the advantages to it? I've been using the CMU Cyrus server for a couple of years now. I don't remember exactly why I chose it over the UW server. For details about the Cyrus IMAP software, see: http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/ One thing I like about it is that both mail delivery and the IMAP daemons run as user cyrus, with -NO- special priveleges. In fact, since I gave that user its own group, it has even less access than the average user. (I don't know how that compares with other IMAP systems.) It also comes with a POP-to-IMAP daemon that will allow older non-IMAP clients to access IMAP mailboxes via POP3. (Limited, of course, to the capabilities of POP3.) This isn't much of an issue any more; but it was when I first set up the system. -Pat From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Aug 12 22:26:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA23371 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23365 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA20264; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:21:59 -0700 (PDT) To: David Lowe cc: Victor Sudakov , freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bulk mailer In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:41:49 PDT." Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:21:58 -0700 Message-ID: <20260.871449718@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > At any rate, it's not my decision. Just thought I would state the > intention of the (poorly named) software in question. Whoa! Call me slow, but I just twigged to what Victor was referring to here (I did not equate "bulk_mailer" with "a bulk mailer" for some reason). I have to back up David on this one and say that bulk_mailer is just a tool, one which probably predated the usage of "spam" to mean anything but Hormel's popular potted pork product, and one indispensible to anyone trying to run a large (legitimate) mailing list. Frankly, I'd just as soon see sendmail removed as "a spammer's tool" before I'd see bulk_mailer removed for the same precedent - it's just a bogus thing to do. Jordan > > Thanks, > > David Lowe > > On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Victor Sudakov wrote: > > > Hello Colleagues. > > > > Do you think it was a wise idea to include a bulk mailer into the ports > > collection? It looks like encouraging spammers. > > > > > > -- > > Victor Sudakov > > http://www.tomsk.su/r/persons/vas.htm > > > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Aug 13 21:46:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA22333 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from email.polaccess.com (polaccess.com [205.166.42.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA22327 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.166.42.114] by email.polaccess.com (SMTPD32-3.03) id AC6514F0258; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:41:09 -0500 Message-ID: <33F28C65.79DA@v-m.com> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:41:09 -0500 From: Marcin Pasek Reply-To: marcin@v-m.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Sendmail setup?. DNS? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a computer runnig FREEBSD and its named xxx.something.com When the mail is send to user@xxx.something.com the mail goes to that machine. Now I have another domain yyy.something.com assigned and pinted to the same IP on a DNS side. Is there a setup that I have to run in order for xxx.something.com also take care of the mail for the yyy.something.com domain. Another question. If I have two domains pointed to one IP ios there anyway to setup a user info sa that info@xxx.com and info@yyy.com could forward to two diffrent people. Is virtual users legag in SENDMAIL under UNIX. THanks Marcin From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Aug 13 22:23:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA24500 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hawk.ois.net.au (mikey@hawk.ois.net.au [203.17.194.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA24495 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mikey@localhost) by hawk.ois.net.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA25236; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:24:26 +0800 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:24:26 +0800 (WST) From: Michael Slater To: Marcin Pasek cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Sendmail setup?. DNS? In-Reply-To: <33F28C65.79DA@v-m.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In /etc/sendmail.cw , you need to put the following line yyy.something.com and any other domain you accept mail for regards, Michael On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Marcin Pasek wrote: > I have a computer runnig FREEBSD and its named xxx.something.com > When the mail is send to user@xxx.something.com the mail goes to that > machine. Now I have another domain yyy.something.com assigned and > pinted to the same IP on a DNS side. Is there a setup that I have to > run in order for xxx.something.com also take care of the mail for the > yyy.something.com domain. > > Another question. > > If I have two domains pointed to one IP ios there anyway to setup a user > info sa that info@xxx.com and info@yyy.com could forward to two diffrent > people. Is virtual users legag in SENDMAIL under UNIX. > > > THanks > > > Marcin > From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Aug 13 22:39:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA25299 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA25294 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool47.hiper.net [207.137.172.47]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA09374 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970813222651.00a09d90@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:26:51 -0700 To: isp@freebsd.org From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk ...yeah sure... Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? My current provider is telling us we need a Cisco 4700 (20-30,000). I was thinking if I could get a powerfull FreeBSD box (200MHz Pro/MMX with 128MB RAM) to do the routing it would be just as good and about 20,000 less expensive...please let me know if I'm off my rocker! Thanx, Randy Katz From owner-freebsd-isp Wed Aug 13 23:31:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA27801 for isp-outgoing; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27796 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA25120; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:34:49 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:34:49 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Randy A. Katz" cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970813222651.00a09d90@ccsales.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? > > My current provider is telling us we need a Cisco 4700 (20-30,000). I was > thinking if I could get a powerfull FreeBSD box (200MHz Pro/MMX with 128MB > RAM) to do the routing it would be just as good and about 20,000 less > expensive...please let me know if I'm off my rocker! You *are* off your rocker to get a PPro200 128MB RAM. Depending on you bandwidth needs, you only need a P-133 with 64MB of RAM :-) I have a 686-120/P150+ with 5 ethernet cards and about 1000 kbps flowing through it - i.e. a 66% utilised T1. CPU utilisation is about 10%, and a significant amount of that is servicing interrupts on the PCI-NE2000 ethernet cards, and checking the 470 ipfw rules I have loaded. Use de or fxp ethernet cards in preference (the two busy cards in my box are de type). I'd recommend a 686-150/P200+ to keep packet latency down. Use gated for BGP peering. Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding synchronous serial cards. /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 00:30:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA01937 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from npc.haplink.co.cn ([202.96.192.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01931 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 00:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from xiyuan@localhost) by npc.haplink.co.cn (8.8.4/8.6.9) id PAA04940 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:37:17 GMT Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:37:17 GMT From: xiyuan qian Message-Id: <199708141537.PAA04940@npc.haplink.co.cn> To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Is there any configuration error? Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, one of my customer obtained 8 IP address from his ISP, they are 202.96.215.120--202.96.215.127. He assign 126 to his router running igrp protocol, 121,123 to his NT server, 124 to his workstation running Windows95. All work well but 124 can not ping out(Request time out). If changing its IP address to 122, it will work. I tried 125, failed too. Where is the problem? Best regaurds! --xiyuan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 01:54:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA06700 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from destiny.waverider.co.uk (destiny.waverider.co.uk [194.207.28.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA06695 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 01:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auden (zephania.waverider.net.uk [194.207.148.99]) by destiny.waverider.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id JAA01131 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:54:18 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814095459.01f8afe0@waverider.net.uk> X-Sender: andyc@waverider.net.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:55:02 +0100 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org From: Andy Cowan Subject: BIND 8 compile probs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Did anyone else have problems getting BIND 8 to compile on FreeBSD? I do the make DST=../obj/freebsd SRC=`pwd` links stage OK, but then when I cd to the obj/freebsd directory and make clean it chokes, not knowing how to make Test destiny: {78} make clean Using .systype Using .settings /usr/local/bind.8/obj/freebsd/include make: don't know how to make Test. Stop *** Error code 2 Stop. destiny: Any ideas anyone? Andy Andy Cowan Tel: 01564 795888 Technical Director Fax: 01564 795177 Wave Rider Internet plc http://www.waverider.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 06:13:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA16347 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mexcom.net (mail.mexcom.net [206.103.64.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16333 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunix (eculp@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by mail.mexcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01759; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:12:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F30446.6EEF6D5E@mexcom.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:12:38 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: marcin@v-m.com CC: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Sendmail setup?. DNS? References: <33F28C65.79DA@v-m.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marcin Pasek wrote: > > I have a computer runnig FREEBSD and its named xxx.something.com > When the mail is send to user@xxx.something.com the mail goes to that > machine. Now I have another domain yyy.something.com assigned and > pinted to the same IP on a DNS side. Is there a setup that I have to > run in order for xxx.something.com also take care of the mail for the > yyy.something.com domain. > > Another question. > > If I have two domains pointed to one IP ios there anyway to setup a user > info sa that info@xxx.com and info@yyy.com could forward to two diffrent > people. Is virtual users legag in SENDMAIL under UNIX. > > THanks > > Marcin might look at http://www.informatik.uni-kiel.de/~ca/email/english.html http://www.qosina.com/~awm/apache/sendmail.html http://www.a-href.net/lglaze/virtualhost.html http://www.sendmail.org/virtual-hosting.html http://www.informatik.uni-kiel.de/%7Eca/email/sm8.8.new.html#CF-VIRT http://www.ssc.com/lg/issue9/lg_tips9.html#sendmail I had the same, more and other problems and solved them with these. I also use qmail that can do the same and in many ways easier although it has other things that are a little more difficult :-) http://www.qmail.org/ Buen provecho. Ed From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 06:17:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA16555 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mexcom.net (mail.mexcom.net [206.103.64.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16548 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunix (eculp@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by mail.mexcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01817; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:17:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F30557.3170F15@mexcom.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:17:11 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" CC: "Randy A. Katz" , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > > > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD > > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment > > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? > > > > My current provider is telling us we need a Cisco 4700 (20-30,000). I was > > thinking if I could get a powerfull FreeBSD box (200MHz Pro/MMX with 128MB > > RAM) to do the routing it would be just as good and about 20,000 less > > expensive...please let me know if I'm off my rocker! > > You *are* off your rocker to get a PPro200 128MB RAM. Depending on you > bandwidth needs, you only need a P-133 with 64MB of RAM :-) I have a > 686-120/P150+ with 5 ethernet cards and about 1000 kbps flowing through it > - i.e. a 66% utilised T1. CPU utilisation is about 10%, and a significant > amount of that is servicing interrupts on the PCI-NE2000 ethernet cards, > and checking the 470 ipfw rules I have loaded. Use de or fxp ethernet > cards in preference (the two busy cards in my box are de type). I'd > recommend a 686-150/P200+ to keep packet latency down. Use gated for BGP > peering. > > Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding > synchronous serial cards. But will he actually sell them? > > /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ > /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ > /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 07:28:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA20194 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20189 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA08565; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814102704.00ddce50@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:27:08 -0400 To: Edwin Culp , "Daniel O'Callaghan" From: dennis Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: "Randy A. Katz" , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 08:17 AM 8/14/97 -0500, Edwin Culp wrote: >Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: >> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: >> >> > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD >> > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment >> > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? >> > >> > My current provider is telling us we need a Cisco 4700 (20-30,000). I was >> > thinking if I could get a powerfull FreeBSD box (200MHz Pro/MMX with 128MB >> > RAM) to do the routing it would be just as good and about 20,000 less >> > expensive...please let me know if I'm off my rocker! >> >> You *are* off your rocker to get a PPro200 128MB RAM. Depending on you >> bandwidth needs, you only need a P-133 with 64MB of RAM :-) I have a >> 686-120/P150+ with 5 ethernet cards and about 1000 kbps flowing through it >> - i.e. a 66% utilised T1. CPU utilisation is about 10%, and a significant >> amount of that is servicing interrupts on the PCI-NE2000 ethernet cards, >> and checking the 470 ipfw rules I have loaded. Use de or fxp ethernet >> cards in preference (the two busy cards in my box are de type). I'd >> recommend a 686-150/P200+ to keep packet latency down. Use gated for BGP >> peering. The "overhead" of bringing in the data on an ethernet card and a PCI sync card is about the same (questioning the need for an external router if you will be doing BGP4 in unix). >> >> Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding >> synchronous serial cards. > >But will he actually sell them? Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 07:29:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA20281 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cre8tivegroup.com (abt6.bitwise.net [204.97.222.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA20270; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [204.255.227.117] by mail.cre8tivegroup.com (SMTPD32-3.04) id A6E09155035C; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:32:00 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.0 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Organization: The Creative Group From: Patrick Gardella To: Tim Moony , isp@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Is ppp compatible with K56flex? Cc: questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I attempted to use a Hayes Accura 56K flex internal, and it did not work. I got a phase 3 error (If I remember right). Troy Settle was also looking into Kflex modems, but I haven't heard how he did. If anyone has gotten a K56flex internal to work, please let me know! On 14-Aug-97 Tim Moony wrote: > >Sorry for my ignorance, but I did not any discussion about this. > >Please cc me. ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Patrick Gardella Date: 14-Aug-97 Time: 10:22:55 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 08:12:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA22771 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marlin.exis.net (root@marlin.exis.net [205.252.72.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22747; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sailfish.exis.net (sailfish.exis.net [205.252.72.104]) by marlin.exis.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03112; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:10:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:09:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Molnar To: Patrick Gardella cc: Tim Moony , isp@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Is ppp compatible with K56flex? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I attempted to use a Hayes Accura 56K flex internal, and it did not work. I got > a phase 3 error (If I remember right). Troy Settle was also looking into Kflex > modems, but I haven't heard how he did. > > If anyone has gotten a K56flex internal to work, please let me know! > Is the modem connecting to a K56flex term server or not? And what version of the K56flex chip do you have? (ATi3) I know for PM3s it will not work with less than V1.0-56K_DLS. If you are connecting to a term server that is PRI in nature, then you need to put in a special AT string to turn off the flex until that term server is capiable of doing 56k. Stefdan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 08:21:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA23136 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MindBender.serv.net (root@mindbender.serv.net [205.153.153.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23116; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.serv.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA07719; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708141514.IAA07719@MindBender.serv.net> X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.serv.net: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Patrick Gardella cc: Tim Moony , isp@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is ppp compatible with K56flex? In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 14 Aug 97 10:22:55 -0400. Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:14:06 -0700 From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I attempted to use a Hayes Accura 56K flex internal, and it did not work. I g ot > a phase 3 error (If I remember right). Troy Settle was also looking into Kfl ex >modems, but I haven't heard how he did. >If anyone has gotten a K56flex internal to work, please let me know! >On 14-Aug-97 Tim Moony wrote: >>Sorry for my ignorance, but I did not any discussion about this. >>Please cc me. There is no reason any modem should matter. PPP will simply see it as a serial port. The modems in between should be effectively invisible to it. Are you sure it wasn't a problem between the two modems, unrelated to PPP? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@MindBender.serv.net --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >-- NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3, Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32... NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 08:25:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA23416 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23405 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA17900; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199708141525.IAA17900@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970813222651.00a09d90@ccsales.com> from "Randy A. Katz" at "Aug 13, 97 10:26:51 pm" To: randyk@ccsales.com (Randy A. Katz) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > ...yeah sure... > > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? > > My current provider is telling us we need a Cisco 4700 (20-30,000). I was > thinking if I could get a powerfull FreeBSD box (200MHz Pro/MMX with 128MB > RAM) to do the routing it would be just as good and about 20,000 less > expensive...please let me know if I'm off my rocker! You don't even need that much power, a Pentium 166 with 128MB and a dual sync serial card should do you just fine. If you want router redundacy use 2 of these only with single sync serial cards. (Though I would buy two duals anyway for future expansion). I won't recommend a sync card as I myself am still sitting on the fence about which one to use :-). The real fun part is getting an AS number out of InterNIC, and you'll need one of those if you really are going to BGP4 peer and announce routers to 2 uptream providers. You'll also need your providers to cooperate with you on this, and some of them only allow you to use Cisco's if you want to BGP peer with them. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 08:32:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA23951 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23946 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA17915; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:31:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199708141531.IAA17915@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Is there any configuration error? In-Reply-To: <199708141537.PAA04940@npc.haplink.co.cn> from xiyuan qian at "Aug 14, 97 03:37:17 pm" To: xiyuan@npc.haplink.co.cn (xiyuan qian) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, one of my customer obtained 8 IP address from his ISP, they are > 202.96.215.120--202.96.215.127. He assign 126 to his router running > igrp protocol, 121,123 to his NT server, 124 to his workstation running > Windows95. All work well but 124 can not ping out(Request time out). > If changing its IP address to 122, it will work. I tried 125, failed > too. Where is the problem? What is the netmask on these 8 IP addresses? If it is really a 3 bit block it should be 0xfffffff8, but from the above it looks as if it is really 2 2 bit blocks with a netmask of 0xfffffffc, which makes .120 and .124 the network IP address and .123 and .127 the network broadcast addresses. Check your netmasks, and the ISP's idea of the netmasks, oh, and for the Hex impared windows world, 0xfffffff8 = 255.255.255.248 and 0xfffffffc = 255.255.255.252. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 08:33:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA23983 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cre8tivegroup.com (abt6.bitwise.net [204.97.222.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA23976; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [204.255.227.117] by mail.cre8tivegroup.com (SMTPD32-3.04) id A5BB72440354; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:35:23 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.0 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Organization: The Creative Group From: Patrick Gardella To: Stefan Molnar Subject: RE: Is ppp compatible with K56flex? Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Tim Moony Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for the note. I was not connected to a K56Flex server. I was trying to use it to connect at 28,800 only. I couldn't run cu to even send it an AT string. The error came up on boot. I edited out the phase 3 check to if it would run then. It didn't. I returned the modem, so I have no idea what chipset it had. Patrick On 14-Aug-97 Stefan Molnar wrote: > >> I attempted to use a Hayes Accura 56K flex internal, and it did not work. I got >> a phase 3 error (If I remember right). Troy Settle was also looking into Kf lex >> modems, but I haven't heard how he did. >> >> If anyone has gotten a K56flex internal to work, please let me know! >> > >Is the modem connecting to a K56flex term server or not? And what version >of the K56flex chip do you have? (ATi3) I know for PM3s it will not >work with less than V1.0-56K_DLS. If you are connecting to a term server >that is PRI in nature, then you need to put in a special AT string to >turn off the flex until that term server is capiable of doing 56k. > >Stefdan > ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Patrick Gardella Date: 14-Aug-97 Time: 11:25:58 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 08:37:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA24361 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cre8tivegroup.com (abt6.bitwise.net [204.97.222.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24243; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [204.255.227.117] by mail.cre8tivegroup.com (SMTPD32-3.04) id A6758DE7038C; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:38:29 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.0 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199708141514.IAA07719@MindBender.serv.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Organization: The Creative Group From: Patrick Gardella To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" Subject: Re: Is ppp compatible with K56flex? Cc: questions@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org, Tim Moony Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 14-Aug-97 Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote: > >>I attempted to use a Hayes Accura 56K flex internal, and it did not work. I g >ot >> a phase 3 error (If I remember right). Troy Settle was also looking into Kfl >ex >>modems, but I haven't heard how he did. >>If anyone has gotten a K56flex internal to work, please let me know! > >>On 14-Aug-97 Tim Moony wrote: >>>Sorry for my ignorance, but I did not any discussion about this. >>>Please cc me. > >There is no reason any modem should matter. PPP will simply see it as >a serial port. The modems in between should be effectively invisible >to it. > >Are you sure it wasn't a problem between the two modems, unrelated to >PPP? I never got to ppp. The error happened as FreeBSD tried to initialize sio3 which is where the modem was. ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Patrick Gardella Date: 14-Aug-97 Time: 11:34:07 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 08:39:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA24536 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marlin.exis.net (root@marlin.exis.net [205.252.72.102]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24511; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sailfish.exis.net (sailfish.exis.net [205.252.72.104]) by marlin.exis.net (8.8.4/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05620; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:38:51 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:38:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Molnar To: Patrick Gardella cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG, isp@FreeBSD.ORG, Tim Moony Subject: RE: Is ppp compatible with K56flex? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was not connected to a K56Flex server. I was trying to use it to connect > at 28,800 only. I couldn't run cu to even send it an AT string. The error came > up on boot. I edited out the phase 3 check to if it would run then. It didn't. > > I returned the modem, so I have no idea what chipset it had. I have not really seen that error before. But during the bootstrap the error occured, when the kernel was probeing the serial ports? Have you tried it in a dos environment, or another os. The Hayes has the rockwell chipset I belive. Stefan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 09:05:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA26150 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cre8tivegroup.com (abt6.bitwise.net [204.97.222.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA26140; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [204.255.227.117] by mail.cre8tivegroup.com (SMTPD32-3.04) id AD5F1C2403BC; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:07:59 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.0 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Organization: The Creative Group From: Patrick Gardella To: Stefan Molnar Subject: RE: Is ppp compatible with K56flex? Cc: Tim Moony , isp@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It worked just fine in Windows 95. Yes, it was during boot. I added the 0x80 flag to sio3 and saw the phase 3 error. When I commented out the check for phase 3 in /sys/i386/isa/sio.c and remade the kernel, I didn't get the error (of course), but it wouldn't work still. The lines I changed were: /* EXTRA DELAY? */ failures[0] = inb(iobase + com_cfcr) - CFCR_8BITS; failures[1] = inb(iobase + com_ier) - IER_ETXRDY; failures[2] = inb(iobase + com_mcr) - mcr_image; DELAY(10000); /* Some internal modems need this time */ /* if (idev->id_irq != 0) * failures[3] = isa_irq_pending(idev) ? 0 : 1;*/ DELAY(1000); /* XXX */ failures[4] = (inb(iobase + com_iir) & IIR_IMASK) - IIR_TXRDY; The irq was set with a jumper so I know it was correct. From the answers I got from the list archives, I assumed that it was a UART problem. I guessed that the normal 16550 wouldn't work with the 56k line, so they had developed a new 16550? to run it. Either that, or it was a 16550 emulation. (I had posted the UART info in an message to the list, but I can't find it in the archives.) Pat On 14-Aug-97 Stefan Molnar wrote: > >> I was not connected to a K56Flex server. I was trying to use it to connect >> at 28,800 only. I couldn't run cu to even send it an AT string. The error cam e >> up on boot. I edited out the phase 3 check to if it would run then. It didn 't. >> >> I returned the modem, so I have no idea what chipset it had. > >I have not really seen that error before. But during the bootstrap >the error occured, when the kernel was probeing the serial ports? >Have you tried it in a dos environment, or another os. The Hayes >has the rockwell chipset I belive. > >Stefan ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Patrick Gardella Date: 14-Aug-97 Time: 11:42:02 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 09:19:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27036 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oak.alpine.net (oak.alpine.net [208.138.51.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27027 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rh@localhost) by oak.alpine.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id JAA11526; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:21:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: dennis cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814102704.00ddce50@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > At 08:17 AM 8/14/97 -0500, Edwin Culp wrote: > >Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > >> > >> > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two > FreeBSD > >> > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment > >> > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? > >> Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding > >> synchronous serial cards. > > > >But will he actually sell them? > Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? > > Dennis I think he is wondering if you will make a sale. I have considered your cards myself, but have chosen cisco and Ascend instead. My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet. Etinc: (new) Ascend: (new) cisco: (used) --------------- --------- ----------- $550 5025 card $1025 Pipeline 130 $1200 2501 (used) $125 cable $ n/a v.35 cable n/a $ ?? cable may be included $400 DSU/CSU $ n/a DSU/CSU $ 400 DSU/CSU ---- ------ ----- $1075 (w/o host) $1025 ready to go $1600 ready to go + $50 to add F/R + 0 included $ 0 included Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for routing... But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend. Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put your manuals, tips, and configuration information online. You see, I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*. If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would probably get one for experimentation. And it everything went well, start using your products instead of cisco and Ascend. But I am not going to spend close to $700 just to find out. Heck, I just got 2 used Pipeline 130 routers (T1/ISDN) for less than $700 each... I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please consider it that I really would like to try your products... but the price is too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them. All the best, -Richard -------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 11:20:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03621 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [206.14.52.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03612 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA15081; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:16:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199708141816.LAA15081@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: dennis@etinc.com, rh@alpine.net Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Now getting into sync serial cards on a FreeBSD box vs. a separate router.) We've been around the block more than once on this question, without a definitive resolution. Check the archives; it's really personal preference, plus your specific needs. In the past, Dennis has asserted without providing evidence that "entry-level" routers like the Pipe130 or the Livingston OR-HS office router aren't really up to handling a full T-1. (Note I'm not saying he's wrong; just that he asserted it without backing it up.) I'm currently evaluating an SDL WANic (PCI card, dual sync ports that will each do up to ca. 8 Mb/s). So far, so good; I did notice that when I plugged in a T-1 that had been on a Livingston IRX-114 router, the ping rtt over the T-1 went from 7 ms to 4 ms. I suspect the ET card would do just as well. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 11:36:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA04314 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04309 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA10112; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814143126.00a97100@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:31:30 -0400 To: Richard Hodges From: dennis Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet. > >Etinc: (new) Ascend: (new) cisco: (used) >--------------- --------- ----------- > $550 5025 card $1025 Pipeline 130 $1200 2501 (used) > $125 cable $ n/a v.35 cable n/a $ ?? cable may be included > $400 DSU/CSU $ n/a DSU/CSU $ 400 DSU/CSU >---- ------ ----- >$1075 (w/o host) $1025 ready to go $1600 ready to go > >+ $50 to add F/R + 0 included $ 0 included Well, almost..its $585. for a card and a cable (Perhaps you confused our cable with Cisco's?), and $375 for a CSU/DSU, so you are talking $960. Of course you can do 100Mbs, expand, put lots of memory in it and do lots of things with the BSD router that you cant do with the aforementioned options, and when you get into density and 100Mbs nets the FreeBSD box is a significant savings and a lot more horsepower (a 200mhz PC with dual 100Mb/s cards and a quad pci sync card will easily outperform a similarly equipped 4000 series at < 1/5th the price. For slow, single port routers....yeah, you may be right. Of course no one makes any money on a low-end router anyway, so who cares? >Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for >routing... But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend. This, is a personal problem. If you *don't* the learning curve is similar. > >Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put >your manuals, tips, and configuration information online. You see, >I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*. If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a different wavelength. > >If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would >probably get one for experimentation. And it everything went well, >start using your products instead of cisco and Ascend. But I am not >going to spend close to $700 just to find out. Heck, I just got 2 >used Pipeline 130 routers (T1/ISDN) for less than $700 each... Perhaps, some day, when we are really hard up for business we will consider such a *program*.... :-) But for now things are pretty much booming.... > >I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please consider >it that I really would like to try your products... but the price is >too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them. The price is *approproiate*. For $300. its not worth the trouble dealing with you...If you want a used card (COD certified) with no support and no warranty and no upgrades then maybe we can talk :-) Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 11:56:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA05517 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from intra.vafibre.com ([205.139.223.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05509 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is01 by intra.vafibre.com (Unoverica 2.11a) id 00004D60; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:50:38 -0400 Message-Id: <199708141850.00004D60@intra.vafibre.com> From: "John Brown" To: Subject: Unknown Class Error Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:48:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1008.3 X-MimeOle: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just updated my server to 2.2.2-Current and when I login as root, I get the following error... main login : login_getclass : unknown class 'root' Everything seems to be working O.K. (this is a mail server only). When I login as another user I don't get the error. Any Ideas... (I realize this probably isn't the place for this question either, but it's the only list I have). Thanks in advance. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 12:05:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06111 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06102 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05110; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199708141904.MAA05110@mail.san.rr.com> Received: from dt5h1n61.san.rr.com(204.210.31.97) by mail via smap (V2.0) id xma005012; Thu, 14 Aug 97 12:04:21 -0700 From: "Studded" To: "Andy Cowan" , "freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 12:03:56 -0700 Reply-To: "Studded" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: BIND 8 compile probs Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:55:02 +0100, Andy Cowan wrote: >Did anyone else have problems getting BIND 8 to compile on FreeBSD? I do the >make DST=../obj/freebsd SRC=`pwd` links >stage OK, but then when I cd to the obj/freebsd directory and >make clean >it chokes, not knowing how to make Test I'm not sure why you want to do what you've indicated here, but the simple answer is, don't. :) I will send you my detailed instructions for installing BIND in FreeBSD. It should compile right out of the box without options. Please note that CERT came out yesterday with an advisory confirming what some of us on bind-users@vix.com have been kicking around, namely that your best bet is to first install BIND 4.9.6 to get the improved libs and include files, then install 8.1.1 over the top to get the improved binaries. I'll be coming out with an updated list of my instruction set soon since it was so well received the last time I posted it. Hope this helps, Doug Do thou amend they face, and I'll amend my life. -Shakespeare, "Henry V" From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 12:10:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06373 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oak.alpine.net (oak.alpine.net [208.138.51.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06343 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rh@localhost) by oak.alpine.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id MAA13271; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:11:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814143126.00a97100@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet. > > > >Etinc: (new) Ascend: (new) cisco: (used) > >--------------- --------- ----------- > > $550 5025 card $1025 Pipeline 130 $1200 2501 (used) > > $125 cable $ n/a v.35 cable n/a $ ?? cable may be included > > $400 DSU/CSU $ n/a DSU/CSU $ 400 DSU/CSU > >---- ------ ----- > >$1075 (w/o host) $1025 ready to go $1600 ready to go > > > >+ $50 to add F/R + 0 included $ 0 included > > Well, almost..its $585. for a card and a cable (Perhaps you confused > our cable with Cisco's?), and $375 for a CSU/DSU, so you are > talking $960. Ok. Your web page said the cable was not included, and the v.35 cable below had a price of $125. So I just figured... > For slow, single port routers....yeah, you may be right. Of course > no one makes any money on a low-end router anyway, so who > cares? If I need several low-end routers, then *I* care. > >Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for > >routing... But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend. > > This, is a personal problem. If you *don't* the learning curve is similar. I understand FreeBSD better than you think. Your cards I do not. > >Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put > >your manuals, tips, and configuration information online. You see, > >I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*. > > If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a different > wavelength. I would love to read your product manuals and configuration guides. (That is really what I am asking for.) What are the URLs? > >If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would > >probably get one for experimentation. > Perhaps, some day, when we are really hard up for business we > will consider such a *program*.... :-) But for now things are pretty > much booming.... If I knew your products were better than my other options, I would be willing to pay more. Since I do not know that, my "experimental" budget is smaller. > >I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please consider > >it that I really would like to try your products... but the price is > >too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them. > The price is *approproiate*. You have not demonstrated your products' full value (yet) TO ME... > For $300. its not worth the trouble dealing with you... That is a funny way to phrase it... But I understand. If the customer is not saying "yes", then you must educate your customer until he understands why the product is worth what you are asking. All the best, -Richard -------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 12:59:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA09386 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09375 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) id UAA14269; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:59:01 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:59:00 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: Edwin Culp , "Daniel O'Callaghan" , "Randy A. Katz" , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814102704.00ddce50@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding > >> synchronous serial cards. > > > >But will he actually sell them? > > Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? Perhaps it means that Dennis only sells to people who never ever suggest that there might possibly be some problem with his products? -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 14:12:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13657 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13626 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA11139; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814171131.00e79ac0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:11:34 -0400 To: Richard Hodges From: dennis Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:11 PM 8/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> >My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet. >> > >> >Etinc: (new) Ascend: (new) cisco: (used) >> >--------------- --------- ----------- >> > $550 5025 card $1025 Pipeline 130 $1200 2501 (used) >> > $125 cable $ n/a v.35 cable n/a $ ?? cable may be included >> > $400 DSU/CSU $ n/a DSU/CSU $ 400 DSU/CSU >> >---- ------ ----- >> >$1075 (w/o host) $1025 ready to go $1600 ready to go >> > >> >+ $50 to add F/R + 0 included $ 0 included >> >> Well, almost..its $585. for a card and a cable (Perhaps you confused >> our cable with Cisco's?), and $375 for a CSU/DSU, so you are >> talking $960. > >Ok. Your web page said the cable was not included, and the v.35 >cable below had a price of $125. So I just figured... Thats a quad-V.35 cable...the cable is 40. > >> For slow, single port routers....yeah, you may be right. Of course >> no one makes any money on a low-end router anyway, so who >> cares? > >If I need several low-end routers, then *I* care. > >> >Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for >> >routing... But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend. >> >> This, is a personal problem. If you *don't* the learning curve is similar. > >I understand FreeBSD better than you think. Your cards I do not. > >> >Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put >> >your manuals, tips, and configuration information online. You see, >> >I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*. >> >> If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a different >> wavelength. > >I would love to read your product manuals and configuration guides. >(That is really what I am asking for.) What are the URLs? Uh...try clicking on the "manuals" section. I forget what color it is. > >> >If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would >> >probably get one for experimentation. We are not in the business of funding your experimentation.... > >> Perhaps, some day, when we are really hard up for business we >> will consider such a *program*.... :-) But for now things are pretty >> much booming.... > >If I knew your products were better than my other options, I would be >willing to pay more. Since I do not know that, my "experimental" >budget is smaller. another personal problem.... > >> >I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please consider >> >it that I really would like to try your products... but the price is >> >too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them. > >> The price is *approproiate*. > >You have not demonstrated your products' full value (yet) TO ME... I can never convice you with words, and Im not giving one to you for free, so you're stuck with Ascend. > >> For $300. its not worth the trouble dealing with you... > >That is a funny way to phrase it... But I understand. > >If the customer is not saying "yes", then you must educate your customer >until he understands why the product is worth what you are asking. If it works it is worth is, if it doesnt then it isnt worth anything. Like someone said, we've been over it many times before...the arguments are constant. If you're never going to grow beyond 1 line, you dont care about bandwidth management or cant figure out how to run ifconfig on a PTP interface, then maybe it isnt worth it for you. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 14:15:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13845 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13828 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA11163; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814171454.00ebb6f0@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:14:56 -0400 To: Jim Dixon From: dennis Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 08:59 PM 8/14/97 +0100, you wrote: >On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> >> Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding >> >> synchronous serial cards. >> > >> >But will he actually sell them? >> >> Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? > >Perhaps it means that Dennis only sells to people who never ever >suggest that there might possibly be some problem with his products? Perhaps I dont care to deal with people who demand constant support but refuse to do what the support people tell them to do and then continue to complain? There is nothing *wrong* with the product, only misuse by people who think they know what they are doing. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 14:29:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14564 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14552 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool30.hiper.net [207.137.172.30]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA28691; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970814141553.01064910@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:15:53 -0700 To: Jim Dixon , dennis From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: Edwin Culp , "Daniel O'Callaghan" , isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19970814102704.00ddce50@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Please, you guys, I have a REAL need. What are you guys using for T1 cards and/or routers to do Multi-homing & load balancing and no single point of failure? At 08:59 PM 8/14/97 +0100, Jim Dixon wrote: >On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> >> Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding >> >> synchronous serial cards. >> > >> >But will he actually sell them? >> >> Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? > >Perhaps it means that Dennis only sells to people who never ever >suggest that there might possibly be some problem with his products? > >-- >Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net >tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 14:46:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15390 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15377 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool30.hiper.net [207.137.172.30]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA29174; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970814143306.00b6ac80@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:33:06 -0700 To: Richard Hodges , dennis From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19970814102704.00ddce50@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How does one do Multi-homed, Load Balancing & No Single Point of Failure with Pipeline 130's and Cisco 2501's??? At 09:21 AM 8/14/97 -0700, Richard Hodges wrote: >On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> At 08:17 AM 8/14/97 -0500, Edwin Culp wrote: >> >Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: >> >> >> >> > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two >> FreeBSD >> >> > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment >> >> > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? > >> >> Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding >> >> synchronous serial cards. >> > >> >But will he actually sell them? > >> Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? >> >> Dennis > >I think he is wondering if you will make a sale. I have considered >your cards myself, but have chosen cisco and Ascend instead. > >My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet. > >Etinc: (new) Ascend: (new) cisco: (used) >--------------- --------- ----------- > $550 5025 card $1025 Pipeline 130 $1200 2501 (used) > $125 cable $ n/a v.35 cable n/a $ ?? cable may be included > $400 DSU/CSU $ n/a DSU/CSU $ 400 DSU/CSU >---- ------ ----- >$1075 (w/o host) $1025 ready to go $1600 ready to go > >+ $50 to add F/R + 0 included $ 0 included > >Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for >routing... But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend. > >Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put >your manuals, tips, and configuration information online. You see, >I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*. > >If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would >probably get one for experimentation. And it everything went well, >start using your products instead of cisco and Ascend. But I am not >going to spend close to $700 just to find out. Heck, I just got 2 >used Pipeline 130 routers (T1/ISDN) for less than $700 each... > >I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please consider >it that I really would like to try your products... but the price is >too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them. > >All the best, > >-Richard > >-------------------------------------------- >Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 >Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive >rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 >member, ISP/C > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 15:06:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA16543 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oak.alpine.net (oak.alpine.net [208.138.51.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16536 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rh@localhost) by oak.alpine.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id PAA15176; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:08:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: "Randy A. Katz" cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970814143306.00b6ac80@ccsales.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > How does one do Multi-homed, Load Balancing & No Single Point of Failure > with Pipeline 130's and Cisco 2501's??? Good point. I probably should have changed the subject line because I was writing about my requirements, which are simple T1 to T1 connections, which are handled fine with Ascend and cisco. I would like to give the serial cards a try, but I am not impressed by Dennis' rude replies. All the best, -Richard -------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 15:14:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17039 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oak.alpine.net (oak.alpine.net [208.138.51.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17029 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rh@localhost) by oak.alpine.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id PAA15272; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:16:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: dennis cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814171131.00e79ac0@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a different > >> wavelength. > > > >I would love to read your product manuals and configuration guides. > >(That is really what I am asking for.) What are the URLs? > > Uh...try clicking on the "manuals" section. I forget what color it is. D'oohh! Ok, I see it. > >If I knew your products were better than my other options, I would be > >willing to pay more. Since I do not know that, my "experimental" > >budget is smaller. > > another personal problem.... It is not my problem. Your manners are *FUCKING RUDE*. Maybe that is the problem. > >> The price is *approproiate*. > > > >You have not demonstrated your products' full value (yet) TO ME... > > I can never convice you with words, and Im not giving one to you for free, > so you're stuck with Ascend. Your manual pages may have convinced me. Your words tell me that you are a rude son-of-a-bitch. > >If the customer is not saying "yes", then you must educate your customer > >until he understands why the product is worth what you are asking. > If it works it is worth is, if it doesnt then it isnt worth anything. Like > someone said, > we've been over it many times before...the arguments are constant. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference if it works or not until you have convinced your customers that it works. -Richard -------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 15:32:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17928 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17923 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool30.hiper.net [207.137.172.30]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA00230; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970814151925.00eb7510@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:19:25 -0700 To: Richard Hodges From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19970814143306.00b6ac80@ccsales.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just spoke with the guy in sales at SDL. It seems they're tied in closely with BSDi and he seemed to think they would be able to offer a solution in that area (using BSDi, of course). I'm not so opposed to buying the OS if the solution is good and it means we don't have to buy a Cisco 4700. He also spoke of Linux but did not know where to go for solutions... Thanx, Randy Katz At 03:08 PM 8/14/97 -0700, Richard Hodges wrote: >On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > >> How does one do Multi-homed, Load Balancing & No Single Point of Failure >> with Pipeline 130's and Cisco 2501's??? > >Good point. I probably should have changed the subject line because >I was writing about my requirements, which are simple T1 to T1 >connections, which are handled fine with Ascend and cisco. > >I would like to give the serial cards a try, but I am not >impressed by Dennis' rude replies. > >All the best, > >-Richard > >-------------------------------------------- >Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 >Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive >rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 >member, ISP/C > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 15:33:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17980 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from walden.maestro.org ([208.2.102.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17970 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 15:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mark@localhost) by walden.maestro.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) id RAA06133 for isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:37:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Turner Message-Id: <199708142237.RAA06133@walden.maestro.org> Subject: htpasswd migration from solaris To: isp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:37:13 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a number of web sites(18) I'm moving from a solaris (2.5 sparc) machine to a FreeBSD machine, both running apache. I'm wondering if there is a way to migrate the htpasswd files off the solaris box. -- Mark Turner mark@maestro.org mark@obiwan.pmr.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:14:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20122 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ritchie.loop.net (ritchie-inet.loop.net [207.211.60.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20113 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from patty.loop.net (patty-inet.loop.net [207.211.60.69]) by ritchie.loop.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA21366 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:13:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Cassandra Perkins X-Sender: cassy@patty.loop.net To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Tape Drives for backups? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk What are the tape devices being used to backup FreeBSD servers? I've heard that the 8mm tapes and devices are the most reliable, but what about the Travan-4 devices? Is any having success using them with BSD? Any horror stories or comparisons would be appreciated. Cassandra Perkins The Loop ISC. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:15:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20155 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20142 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool30.hiper.net [207.137.172.30]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01003; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970814160157.00d0ba70@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:01:57 -0700 To: dennis , Jim Dixon From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814171454.00ebb6f0@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dennis, This is Randy Katz. I originated this discussion. You, as a vendor, should be striving to answer my question on this. I would appreciate it if you do that and not lower yourself to petty bickering. Thankx, Randy Katz At 05:14 PM 8/14/97 -0400, dennis wrote: >At 08:59 PM 8/14/97 +0100, you wrote: >>On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: >> >>> >> Dennis will probably remind you to look at www.etinc.com regarding >>> >> synchronous serial cards. >>> > >>> >But will he actually sell them? >>> >>> Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? >> >>Perhaps it means that Dennis only sells to people who never ever >>suggest that there might possibly be some problem with his products? > >Perhaps I dont care to deal with people who demand constant support >but refuse to do what the support people tell them to do and then continue >to complain? There is nothing *wrong* with the product, only misuse by >people who think they know what they are doing. > >Dennis > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:18:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20288 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20281 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool30.hiper.net [207.137.172.30]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01017; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970814160522.00d0fd30@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:05:22 -0700 To: dennis , Richard Hodges From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814171131.00e79ac0@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Dennis, I am looking for a solution. I don't see you've answered my original questions...Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure...apparently you've been fighting with these guys for awhile but I don't feel like you've given my questions a go. Here they were: >Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD >boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment >should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? > >My current provider is telling us we need a Cisco 4700 (20-30,000). I was >thinking if I could get a powerfull FreeBSD box (200MHz Pro/MMX with 128MB >RAM) to do the routing it would be just as good and about 20,000 less >expensive...please let me know if I'm off my rocker! > >Thanx, >Randy Katz > > At 05:11 PM 8/14/97 -0400, dennis wrote: >At 12:11 PM 8/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >>On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: >> >>> >My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet. >>> > >>> >Etinc: (new) Ascend: (new) cisco: (used) >>> >--------------- --------- ----------- >>> > $550 5025 card $1025 Pipeline 130 $1200 2501 (used) >>> > $125 cable $ n/a v.35 cable n/a $ ?? cable may be included >>> > $400 DSU/CSU $ n/a DSU/CSU $ 400 DSU/CSU >>> >---- ------ ----- >>> >$1075 (w/o host) $1025 ready to go $1600 ready to go >>> > >>> >+ $50 to add F/R + 0 included $ 0 included >>> >>> Well, almost..its $585. for a card and a cable (Perhaps you confused >>> our cable with Cisco's?), and $375 for a CSU/DSU, so you are >>> talking $960. >> >>Ok. Your web page said the cable was not included, and the v.35 >>cable below had a price of $125. So I just figured... > >Thats a quad-V.35 cable...the cable is 40. > >> >>> For slow, single port routers....yeah, you may be right. Of course >>> no one makes any money on a low-end router anyway, so who >>> cares? >> >>If I need several low-end routers, then *I* care. >> >>> >Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for >>> >routing... But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend. >>> >>> This, is a personal problem. If you *don't* the learning curve is similar. >> >>I understand FreeBSD better than you think. Your cards I do not. >> >>> >Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put >>> >your manuals, tips, and configuration information online. You see, >>> >I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*. >>> >>> If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a different >>> wavelength. >> >>I would love to read your product manuals and configuration guides. >>(That is really what I am asking for.) What are the URLs? > >Uh...try clicking on the "manuals" section. I forget what color it is. > >> >>> >If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would >>> >probably get one for experimentation. > >We are not in the business of funding your experimentation.... > >> >>> Perhaps, some day, when we are really hard up for business we >>> will consider such a *program*.... :-) But for now things are pretty >>> much booming.... >> >>If I knew your products were better than my other options, I would be >>willing to pay more. Since I do not know that, my "experimental" >>budget is smaller. > >another personal problem.... > >> >>> >I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please consider >>> >it that I really would like to try your products... but the price is >>> >too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them. >> >>> The price is *approproiate*. >> >>You have not demonstrated your products' full value (yet) TO ME... > >I can never convice you with words, and Im not giving one to you for free, >so you're stuck with Ascend. > >> >>> For $300. its not worth the trouble dealing with you... >> >>That is a funny way to phrase it... But I understand. >> >>If the customer is not saying "yes", then you must educate your customer >>until he understands why the product is worth what you are asking. > >If it works it is worth is, if it doesnt then it isnt worth anything. Like >someone said, >we've been over it many times before...the arguments are constant. > >If you're never going to grow beyond 1 line, you dont care about bandwidth >management or cant figure out how to run ifconfig on a PTP interface, then >maybe it isnt worth it for you. > >Dennis > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:19:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20329 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.virtualisys.com (virtualisys.com [207.137.172.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20318 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rkntws40casa (pool30.hiper.net [207.137.172.30]) by vs1.virtualisys.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01032; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970814160620.00a35b50@ccsales.com> X-Sender: randyk@ccsales.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:06:20 -0700 To: Richard Hodges From: "Randy A. Katz" Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19970814143306.00b6ac80@ccsales.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems, for some reason, he doesn't consider us valid potential customers. Perhaps he got offended somehow? At 03:08 PM 8/14/97 -0700, Richard Hodges wrote: >On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > >> How does one do Multi-homed, Load Balancing & No Single Point of Failure >> with Pipeline 130's and Cisco 2501's??? > >Good point. I probably should have changed the subject line because >I was writing about my requirements, which are simple T1 to T1 >connections, which are handled fine with Ascend and cisco. > >I would like to give the serial cards a try, but I am not >impressed by Dennis' rude replies. > >All the best, > >-Richard > >-------------------------------------------- >Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 >Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive >rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 >member, ISP/C > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:32:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA20995 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA20988 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eddie@localhost) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05991 for isp@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:32:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:32:33 -0700 (MST) From: Eddie Fry Message-Id: <199708142332.QAA05991@Wicked.eaznet.com> To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: reverse DNS Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I seem to be having a problem with reverse DNS. I've looked through everything I could find in DNS & BIND, but with no luck. If I go to a site with reverse DNS authentication from any server listed in my in-addr.arpa file, no problem. The problem occurs when a dial-in user or a Win 95 machine on my network (but not listed in my named files) tries to access one of these sites. the site returns a message that it cannot resolve my address. I guess it's because the address is not specified in the in-addr.arpa file. Is this true? Is there any way to correct this problem? I'm running 2.1.5 (I'm planning to upgrade in the next 2 weeks, but I want to make sure nothing is amiss first). Thanks in advance! Eddie From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:32:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21041 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from federation.addy.com (federation.addy.com [207.239.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21033 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (fbsdlist@localhost) by federation.addy.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA16516; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:31:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Cliff Addy To: Richard Hodges cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Richard Hodges wrote: > I would like to give the serial cards a try, but I am not > impressed by Dennis' rude replies. Hey, at least he didn't call you a moron. Which is a significant improvement over his usual rudeness. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:33:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21169 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21163 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA12133; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814193303.00ebd960@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:33:06 -0400 To: "Randy A. Katz" From: dennis Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:19 PM 8/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >I just spoke with the guy in sales at SDL. It seems they're tied in closely >with BSDi and he seemed to think they would be able to offer a solution in >that area (using BSDi, of course). I'm not so opposed to buying the OS if >the solution is good and it means we don't have to buy a Cisco 4700. The solution exists without having to buy BSD/OS or a Cisco4700. The solution with SDL and BSD/OS (we also support BSD/OS) is the same as the freebsd/ET solution. The question is do you want to deal with gated (which you have to in either case), not is there a solution. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 16:36:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21332 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21313 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 16:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA12147; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814193523.00e7b100@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:35:26 -0400 To: Richard Hodges From: dennis Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 03:16 PM 8/14/97 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> >> If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a different >> >> wavelength. >> > >> >I would love to read your product manuals and configuration guides. >> >(That is really what I am asking for.) What are the URLs? >> >> Uh...try clicking on the "manuals" section. I forget what color it is. > >D'oohh! Ok, I see it. > >> >If I knew your products were better than my other options, I would be >> >willing to pay more. Since I do not know that, my "experimental" >> >budget is smaller. >> >> another personal problem.... > >It is not my problem. Your manners are *FUCKING RUDE*. Maybe that >is the problem. You sent this to the list? Who's rude? > >> >> The price is *approproiate*. >> > >> >You have not demonstrated your products' full value (yet) TO ME... >> >> I can never convice you with words, and Im not giving one to you for free, >> so you're stuck with Ascend. > >Your manual pages may have convinced me. Your words tell me that >you are a rude son-of-a-bitch. > >> >If the customer is not saying "yes", then you must educate your customer >> >until he understands why the product is worth what you are asking. > >> If it works it is worth is, if it doesnt then it isnt worth anything. Like >> someone said, >> we've been over it many times before...the arguments are constant. > >It doesn't make a damn bit of difference if it works or not until you >have convinced your customers that it works. This is the quote of the year....whoever is in charge of noting such things! Dennis > >-Richard > >-------------------------------------------- >Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 >Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive >rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 >member, ISP/C > > > > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 17:16:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA23562 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.TerraNova.net (root@obiwan.TerraNova.net [209.4.59.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23553 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P1mpBSD.TerraNova.net (coolholio@P1mpBSD.TerraNova.net [209.4.59.4]) by obiwan.TerraNova.net (8.8.7/TerraNovaNet) with SMTP id UAA03378; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33F3A05F.1346@terranova.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:18:39 -0400 From: Travis Mikalson Reply-To: bofh@terranova.net Organization: TerraNovaNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Brown CC: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unknown Class Error References: <199708141850.00004D60@intra.vafibre.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Brown wrote: > > I just updated my server to 2.2.2-Current and when I login as root, I get > the following error... > > main login : login_getclass : unknown class 'root' ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.2.2-RELEASE/ERRATA.TXT -- -=--==--===---====----======------=======------- TerraNovaNet Internet Services - Key Largo, FL Voice: (305)453-4011 Fax: (305)451-5991 http://www.TerraNova.net -------=======------======----====---===--==--=- Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 17:19:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA23694 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.primelink.com (ns1.primelink.com [206.24.58.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA23660 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hack ([205.242.94.157]) by ns1.primelink.com (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11777) with SMTP id AAA191; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:21:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970814191610.0091a330@mail.primelink.com> X-Sender: darkstar@mail.primelink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:16:13 -0400 To: Eddie Fry , isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Kevin Brown Subject: Re: reverse DNS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:32 PM 8/14/97 -0700, Eddie Fry wrote: > >If I go to a site with reverse DNS authentication from any server listed in my in-addr.arpa file, no problem. The problem occurs when a dial-in user or a Win 95 machine on my network (but not listed in my named files) tries to access one of these sites. Without a record in your in-addr.arpa.db, these hosts will not resolve reverse. So to answer your question quickly... Yes. Do unto one, as you would the other. IE: ; ; domain.com.db ; blah ; first-host IN A 10.10.1.6 then; ; ; 1.10.10.in-addr.arpa.db ; blah ; 6 IN PTR first-host ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Kevin Brown ---------->(kbrown@primelink.com) -- email ->(darkstar@sockets.net) ---------->(darkstar@frequency.net) Huber and Associates (www.primelink.com) Frequency Networks (www.frequency.net) ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------------------------------------------ Pursuate to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Sec. 227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. Emailing denotes acceptance of these terms. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 17:33:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA24656 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24650 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default ([206.62.254.137]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA06232; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:35:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <33F3A4A5.8AECA0DC@eaznet.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:36:53 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Hodges CC: dennis , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Now Now, Richard. Just because Dennis has no sense of humor doesn't mean you have to drop to his level. ;-) Eddie Richard Hodges wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > > > >> If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so > perhaps we're on a different > > >> wavelength. > > > > > >I would love to read your product manuals and > configuration guides. > > >(That is really what I am asking for.) What > are the URLs? > > > > Uh...try clicking on the "manuals" section. I > forget what color it is. > > D'oohh! Ok, I see it. > > > >If I knew your products were better than my > other options, I would be > > >willing to pay more. Since I do not know > that, my "experimental" > > >budget is smaller. > > > > another personal problem.... > > It is not my problem. Your manners are *FUCKING > RUDE*. Maybe that > is the problem. > > > >> The price is *approproiate*. > > > > > >You have not demonstrated your products' full > value (yet) TO ME... > > > > I can never convice you with words, and Im not > giving one to you for free, > > so you're stuck with Ascend. > > Your manual pages may have convinced me. Your > words tell me that > you are a rude son-of-a-bitch. > > > >If the customer is not saying "yes", then you > must educate your customer > > >until he understands why the product is worth > what you are asking. > > > If it works it is worth is, if it doesnt then > it isnt worth anything. Like > > someone said, > > we've been over it many times before...the > arguments are constant. > > It doesn't make a damn bit of difference if it > works or not until you > have convinced your customers that it works. > > -Richard > > -------------------------------------------- > Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 > Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive > rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 > member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 17:38:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25086 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25077 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA29449; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:40:52 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:40:52 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Randy A. Katz" cc: Richard Hodges , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970814160620.00a35b50@ccsales.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > It seems, for some reason, he doesn't consider us valid potential > customers. Perhaps he got offended somehow? The motto is: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Don't leave home without it! From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 18:25:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27403 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oak.alpine.net (oak.alpine.net [208.138.51.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27393 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rh@localhost) by oak.alpine.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id SAA17434; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:26:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Daniel O'Callaghan wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > > > It seems, for some reason, he doesn't consider us valid potential > > customers. Perhaps he got offended somehow? > > The motto is: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." > Don't leave home without it! Hmmm... I think I will shut up for a while, then ;-) All the best, -Richard -------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 18:25:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27426 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27419 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03026; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:24:09 -0700 (PDT) To: "Randy A. Katz" cc: Jim Dixon , dennis , Edwin Culp , "Daniel O'Callaghan" , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:15:53 PDT." <3.0.3.32.19970814141553.01064910@ccsales.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:24:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3022.871608249@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What are you guys using for T1 cards and/or routers to do Multi-homing & > load balancing and no single point of failure? Go buy some Cisco equipment. :) Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 18:28:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27597 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27591 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03052; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:27:49 -0700 (PDT) To: Cliff Addy cc: Richard Hodges , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:31:47 EDT." Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:27:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3048.871608469@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'd like to suggest that this conversation has lost its value right around this point and we're now heading down that all-too-familiar vaseline covered slope towards a flame war with Dennis & co. I think we've also identified the range of FreeBSD related solutions already, and that takes the subject well outside this list now since Randy can either avail himself of one of these or go buy some Cisco equipment (which I, in his position, would simply do at this point). Can we just leave it here? The SNR of freebsd-isp has already been abysmally low enough lately. :-( Jordan > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Richard Hodges wrote: > > > I would like to give the serial cards a try, but I am not > > impressed by Dennis' rude replies. > > Hey, at least he didn't call you a moron. Which is a significant > improvement over his usual rudeness. > From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 18:28:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27665 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.intrastar.net (linus.intrastar.net [206.136.25.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27656 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by linus.intrastar.net (8.8.7/LinusIntrastarNet) with ESMTP id UAA04477; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:27:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F3B127.EC9E1510@linus.intrastar.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:30:16 -0500 From: Jacob Suter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Randy A. Katz" CC: Richard Hodges , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.3.32.19970814143306.00b6ac80@ccsales.com> <3.0.3.32.19970814160620.00a35b50@ccsales.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Randy A. Katz wrote: > It seems, for some reason, he doesn't consider us valid potential > customers. Perhaps he got offended somehow? I personally seriously doubt that. I have never personally bought/used an ET card, but know several that have - they work. Dennis is one of those people that know what he is doing, and yes, he is sometimes a real prick, but he's on the one spewing 'son of a bitch' and 'fucker' on the mailing list. We're ISPs... I'm starting to understand why telcos and the rest of the computing industry don't much respect us. JS From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 18:32:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27942 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.intrastar.net (root@linus.intrastar.net [206.136.25.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27930 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by linus.intrastar.net (8.8.7/LinusIntrastarNet) with ESMTP id UAA04491; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:31:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F3B21D.BBD4B7FA@linus.intrastar.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:34:21 -0500 From: Jacob Suter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Hodges CC: dennis , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Another thing. ET does provide a demo program... for what is it, $10/day for up to 30 days? Looks reasonable to me... I wish I could have gotten that for most of the hardware I have purchased in the past. JS Richard Hodges wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > > > >My "typical" router is one T1 and one Ethernet. > > > > > >Etinc: (new) Ascend: (new) cisco: (used) > > >--------------- --------- ----------- > > > $550 5025 card $1025 Pipeline 130 $1200 2501 (used) > > > $125 cable $ n/a v.35 cable n/a $ ?? cable may be > included > > > $400 DSU/CSU $ n/a DSU/CSU $ 400 DSU/CSU > > >---- ------ ----- > > >$1075 (w/o host) $1025 ready to go $1600 ready to go > > > > > >+ $50 to add F/R + 0 included $ 0 included > > > > Well, almost..its $585. for a card and a cable (Perhaps you confused > > > our cable with Cisco's?), and $375 for a CSU/DSU, so you are > > talking $960. > > Ok. Your web page said the cable was not included, and the v.35 > cable below had a price of $125. So I just figured... > > > For slow, single port routers....yeah, you may be right. Of course > > no one makes any money on a low-end router anyway, so who > > cares? > > If I need several low-end routers, then *I* care. > > > >Yes, I *DO UNDERSTAND* that *BSD is much more powerful for > > >routing... But I know how to set up cisco and Ascend. > > > > This, is a personal problem. If you *don't* the learning curve is > similar. > > I understand FreeBSD better than you think. Your cards I do not. > > > >Your web page documentation could benefit greatly if you would put > > >your manuals, tips, and configuration information online. You see, > > > >I want to know everything about the job *BEFORE I BUY*. > > > > If you're talking to ET, it IS up there, so perhaps we're on a > different > > wavelength. > > I would love to read your product manuals and configuration guides. > (That is really what I am asking for.) What are the URLs? > > > >If I could get your basic 5025 with cable for $250 to $300, I would > > > >probably get one for experimentation. > > > Perhaps, some day, when we are really hard up for business we > > will consider such a *program*.... :-) But for now things are pretty > > > much booming.... > > If I knew your products were better than my other options, I would be > willing to pay more. Since I do not know that, my "experimental" > budget is smaller. > > > >I hope you don't take this as a grip, but if you do, please > consider > > >it that I really would like to try your products... but the price > is > > >too high and I need a chance to build confidence in them. > > > The price is *approproiate*. > > You have not demonstrated your products' full value (yet) TO ME... > > > For $300. its not worth the trouble dealing with you... > > That is a funny way to phrase it... But I understand. > > If the customer is not saying "yes", then you must educate your > customer > until he understands why the product is worth what you are asking. > > All the best, > > -Richard > > -------------------------------------------- > Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 > Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive > rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 > member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 19:06:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29682 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.jorsm.com (mercury.jorsm.com [207.112.128.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29677 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jeff@localhost) by mercury.jorsm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA24288; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:15:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:15:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeff Lynch To: Cliff Addy cc: Richard Hodges , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Cliff Addy wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Richard Hodges wrote: > > > I would like to give the serial cards a try, but I am not > > impressed by Dennis' rude replies. > > Hey, at least he didn't call you a moron. Which is a significant > improvement over his usual rudeness. > Ok. People. Enough is enough. This is not a Dennis bashing list. I get enough crap in my mailbox. I would appreciate the dennis haters to move to private email. Thank you. ========================================================================= Jeffrey A. Lynch, President JORSM Internet email: jeff@jorsm.com Northwest Indiana's Full-Service Provider Voice: (219)322-2180 927 Sheffield Avenue, Dyer, IN 46311 Autoresponse: info@jorsm.com http://www.jorsm.com From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 20:08:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA02670 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linus.intrastar.net (root@linus.intrastar.net [206.136.25.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02665 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fixed.intrastar.net (jakes@fixed.intrastar.net [206.136.25.69]) by linus.intrastar.net (8.8.7/LinusIntrastarNet) with ESMTP id WAA04736; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:07:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F3C879.AC7828DA@linus.intrastar.net> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:09:46 -0500 From: Jacob Suter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: "Randy A. Katz" , Jim Dixon , dennis , Edwin Culp , "Daniel O'Callaghan" , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3022.871608249@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Too expensive... but isn't there a way to do two ethernet networks on small subnets to a single FreeBSD box and two low end (IE Livingston OFfice Routers) to do BGP? I'd rock if it did because you could always settle back to a single line (on your normal ethernet) if something went wrong.... Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > What are you guys using for T1 cards and/or routers to do > Multi-homing & > > load balancing and no single point of failure? > > Go buy some Cisco equipment. :) > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 20:25:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03289 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03284 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bradley@localhost) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00831 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:25:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Bradley Dunn X-Sender: bradley@ns2.harborcom.net To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970814141553.01064910@ccsales.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk WARNING!!! CONTENT FOLLOWS!!! THOSE EXPECTING FLAMES NOT CONTENT HIT 'D' NOW!!! On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > What are you guys using for T1 cards and/or routers to do Multi-homing & > load balancing and no single point of failure? The discussion thus far has seemed to focus on ET, SDL, BSDI, FreeBSD, etc...The real issue, *for this particular situation* is cisco IOS vs. GateD. If you go with a PC-based solution, no matter what vendor you get the OS and serial card from, you will need GateD to handle the BGP for you. Gated is now pay-to-play if you want any of the newer features. See www.gated.org for details. Basically it is going to cost you at least $12,000 for the first year, and then $10,000 PER YEAR after that. That is not trivial for the small to mid-size ISP. That reduces significantly the cost savings of chosing a PC over a cisco. There is still a public version of GateD you can use for free, but it lacks some of the features that are standard in cisco IOS. (BGP communities, confederations, route reflectors, OSPF MD5 auth...) I also much prefer IOS's implementation of iBGP to GateD's. People are using it to do BGP, though, and it does generally work. Make sure your upstreams DO NOT send you the community attribute, as the public version of GateD does not handle it well. You will also find a lot more people able to help you with cisco configuration as opposed to GateD, especially if your upstream providers are asking you to use cisco. Another feature of the cisco is that it makes it harder for you to shoot yourself in the foot. You can botch an IOS upgrade and the cisco will still be able to use the boot ROM to bring its interfaces up and you will be able to telnet to it. From there you can use tftp to get a fixed image loaded into flash. Try doing that with a PC when you botch a software upgrade. (Yes I know about nextboot(8), it's not the same.) It can be done with either, though. People are using all kinds of different setups and you will find people happy with all different kinds of setups and you will also find those who are unhappy. Our current setup involves both. We use ciscos to talk to our upstreams, while we use PC routers for internal routing. Using ciscos for our 'net connections means we can use the features of cisco's BGP implementation and such. Using PC's for internal routing means we can take advantage of things such as ipfilter to protect our servers and ET's BWMGR to throttle collocated customers down to their paid-for bandwidth. I would recommend finding a couple spare PCs to test GateD on and you can see for yourself how you like it. I would definitely advise getting familar with GateD before banking your 'net connectivity on it. pbd -- Going to church does not make a person religious, nor does going to school make a person educated, any more than going to a garage makes a person a car. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 21:03:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA04746 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com (wicked.eaznet.com [206.62.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04741 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default ([206.62.254.167]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06715; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:04:50 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <33F3A8ED.F66C28F6@eaznet.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:55:09 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Brown CC: Eddie Fry , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: reverse DNS X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.32.19970814191610.0091a330@mail.primelink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kevin Brown wrote: > At 04:32 PM 8/14/97 -0700, Eddie Fry wrote: > > > >If I go to a site with reverse DNS > authentication from any server listed > in my in-addr.arpa file, no problem. The > problem occurs when a dial-in > user or a Win 95 machine on my network (but not > listed in my named files) > tries to access one of these sites. > Without a record in your in-addr.arpa.db, these > hosts will not resolve > reverse. So to answer your question quickly... > Yes. Do unto one, as you > would the other. > So, my dial-in users CANNOT be reverse authenticated unless I give each of them their own IP address? Kevin, please don't take this wrong. That doesn't seem right to me. You can't tell me that anyone that uses server assigned IP addresses is unable to, for example, download the US version of Netscape???!?!?!?!?!? Eddie > ; > ; domain.com.db > ; > blah > ; > first-host IN A 10.10.1.6 > > then; > > ; > ; 1.10.10.in-addr.arpa.db > ; > blah > ; > > 6 IN PTR first-host > > ////////////////////////////////// > /////////////////////////////////// > Kevin Brown > ---------->(kbrown@primelink.com) > -- email ->(darkstar@sockets.net) > ---------->(darkstar@frequency.net) > > Huber and Associates (www.primelink.com) > Frequency Networks (www.frequency.net) > /////////////////////////////////////////// > ////////////////////////// > -------------------------- > --------------------------------------- > Pursuate to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, > Subchapter II, Sec. 227, > any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent > to this address is > subject to a download and archival fee in the > amount of $500 US. > Emailing denotes acceptance of these terms. > ------------------------------------------- > ---------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 21:15:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05349 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05337 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.6/8.8.5) id GAA10743; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:14:20 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199708150414.GAA10743@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970814151925.00eb7510@ccsales.com> from "Randy A. Katz" at "Aug 14, 97 03:19:25 pm" To: randyk@ccsales.com (Randy A. Katz) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:14:20 +0200 (SAT) Cc: rh@alpine.net, isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just spoke with the guy in sales at SDL. It seems they're tied in closely > with BSDi and he seemed to think they would be able to offer a solution in > that area (using BSDi, of course). I'm not so opposed to buying the OS if > the solution is good and it means we don't have to buy a Cisco 4700. > If you just want a normal Sync PPP or raw HDLC (Cisco mode) connection FreeBSD 2.2 and -current supports the SDL RISCom/N2 ISA and PCI cards. The man page is sr(4) and there is examples in LINT, although the man page doesn't mention the PCI driver I see. Seems I forgot to update that. :-( John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 21:23:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA05631 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [206.14.52.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA05626 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA20364; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:21:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199708150421.VAA20364@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: jeff@mercury.jorsm.com Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Just to inject the tiniest smidgen of content into this thread, I'll just note again that there are also the SDL sync cards; that I'm evaluating the SDL WANic (PCI bus card with 2 sync ports that will do well over T-1 speeds); that they look pretty good to me so far; and that I'll report back when I've learned more. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 21:38:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA06425 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com (wicked.eaznet.com [206.62.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06410 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default ([206.62.254.167]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA06818 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:40:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <33F3DDFF.A8B02D9D@eaznet.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:41:36 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: reverse DNS X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ok guys, You've convinced me. I guess I have to add all of those addresses into my DNS. I guess I have trouble imagining some guy at AOL adding all those entries everytime they add more equipment. What a mess!!! Eddie From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 22:18:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA08453 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com [206.14.52.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08448 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jas@localhost) by biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA20995; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:15:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shankland Message-Id: <199708150515.WAA20995@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> To: bradley@dunn.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gee: real content; thanks :-). I'm shocked at this business of paying through the nose for gated (turn your back for a few years, and just look what happens). Seems like it ought to be possible to start with the free version, and have interested parties improve it for free, kind of like BIND. Hell, I've even heard that there are whole free operating systems out there, some of them rumored to be pretty good :-). I'm not volunteering (yet), but it's certainly food for thought. Jim Shankland Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 23:34:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA11737 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11729 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) id HAA17350; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:34:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:34:02 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: dennis cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970814171454.00ebb6f0@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, dennis wrote: > >> Any what does this mean, oh mighty one? > > > >Perhaps it means that Dennis only sells to people who never ever > >suggest that there might possibly be some problem with his products? > > Perhaps I dont care to deal with people who demand constant support > but refuse to do what the support people tell them to do and then continue > to complain? There is nothing *wrong* with the product, only misuse by > people who think they know what they are doing. :-) Now isn't that Dennis as we know and love him? (-: -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Thu Aug 14 23:46:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA12297 for isp-outgoing; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA12289 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) id HAA17372; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:46:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:46:06 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: "Randy A. Katz" cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970814143306.00b6ac80@ccsales.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > How does one do Multi-homed, Load Balancing & No Single Point of Failure > with Pipeline 130's and Cisco 2501's??? Brief answer: you don't. The Cisco 2501 can't handle BGP4 peering with the number of routes you see today. But you can build cheap and very effective routers using BSD, x86 motherboards, and sync serial cards either from Dennis (www.etinc.com) or SDL (www.sdlcomm.com, I think). Put 64 MB on the motherboard and make sure you can expand it to 128 MB. We use SDL cards, because at the time we evaluated them the SDL boards were better made than the ET boards. That may have changed; Dennis's notion of customer relations hasn't ;-) For reliability, use one such BSD router per link to the backbone. Our experience is that the routers themselves are disgustingly reliable if you don't fiddle around with the source code -- they simply don't fail. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 00:21:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA13632 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA13627 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 00:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) id IAA17483; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:21:27 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:21:27 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Jacob Suter cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Cisco vs gated (WAS: Multi-homed - Load Balancing ...) In-Reply-To: <33F3C879.AC7828DA@linus.intrastar.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Jacob Suter wrote: > Too expensive... but isn't there a way to do two ethernet networks on > small subnets to a single FreeBSD box and two low end (IE Livingston > OFfice Routers) to do BGP? I'd rock if it did because you could always > settle back to a single line (on your normal ethernet) if something > went wrong.... You've got it back to front. The FreeBSD box gives you cheap and reliable BGP4 routing. The low-end boxes are OK for customer sites and other places where you want absolute reliability at the price of inflexibility and poor performance. Two FreeBSD based routers, each with 64 MB, a sync serial card (we use SDL PCI-based "WANics" but I suppose there is an ET equivalent), and a PCI Ethernet card (Tulip based or one of the Intel 10/100 cards) give you a very reliable setup and they are _cheap_ To get anything similar in performance you need a Cisco 4700 series router which will cost you something like ten times as much. Yes, you do have to use gated. And yes they are changing the way that gated is licensed. But Merit is working on a special deal for ISPs, details out Real Soon Now. I would just use the newest release (see www.gated.org for source code) and wait. The BSD-based solution is so much cheaper that you can build it as an experiment. If you don't like it, all of parts except the sync serial card are standard, so you can just use the box for something else. If you prefer to pay ten times as much and like being locked into a proprietary routing solution, sure, buy Cisco. But if you prefer source code and don't mind having a wonderful high performance system that you build from off the shelf parts whose price goes steadily down and quality goes steadily up -- go FreeBSD. The problem used to be that there was no upgrade path. However, the Ascend GRF 400 now gives you one. It's a gated box and runs a BSD variant. But it can handle multiple HSSI, ATM, FDDI, etc ports. Of course it's a lot more expensive, but it's still a lot cheaper than -- and outperforms -- Cisco. > > > What are you guys using for T1 cards and/or routers to do > > Multi-homing & > > > load balancing and no single point of failure? > > > > Go buy some Cisco equipment. :) Only if you have to. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 03:39:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA20514 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eldorado.forte94.ru ([195.208.94.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA20509 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 03:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by eldorado.forte94.ru(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 432564F4.003FDDA0 ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:37:35 +0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: FORTE-94 CO. LTD From: "Dmitriy Hijinskiy" To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Message-ID: <432564F4.003FB30B.00@eldorado.forte94.ru> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:37:30 +0300 Subject: Firewall problemm? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I have rebuilt my kernel and installed IPFW utility. I have also configured IPFW to route all packets from any to any using any interface. I am using FreeBSD 2.2.1. And I think it doesn't route packets betwen two interfaces. (one interface attached to the local-net and other - to the internet) What do I have to change for it to work right? It would be much appreciated if you could send me some config files: /etc/sysconfig, /etc/rc.firewall and any other files for IPFW you feel I may need? Dmitriy Hijinskiy dima@forte94.ru From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 04:10:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA21632 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21620 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11002; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:40:07 +0800 (WST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:40:06 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: "Randy A. Katz" cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970813222651.00a09d90@ccsales.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > ...yeah sure... > > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? I have a 486Dx2-66, 16mb RAM with 3 ISA Ne2000's as our main gateway box. Currently it handles around 450kbytes/s on each interface at peak times, and : adrian@cortex:~$ uptime 7:22PM up 95 days, 7:57, 9 users, load averages: 0.07, 0.02, 0.01 Nice and stable. I *also* on top of that run gated with iBGP sessions and an OSPF mesh for internal routing, I think with the full AS1221 route map (about 5000 routes, describing where Australia is), about 350 routes for the local peering traffic, and another 50 for the OSPF mesh.. its handling it quite nicely :) Now, if a FreeBSD machine can do *that* with 6000 ip route lines, I think its doing pretty good. And I really want to trial out Denis' serial cards, can anyone comment what they're like? Adrian -- Adrian Chadd | "Unix doesn't stop you from doing | stupid things because that would | stop you from doing clever things" From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 04:23:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA22065 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA22060 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11016; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:52:22 +0800 (WST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:52:22 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: "Randy A. Katz" cc: Richard Hodges , dennis , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970814143306.00b6ac80@ccsales.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Randy A. Katz wrote: > How does one do Multi-homed, Load Balancing & No Single Point of Failure > with Pipeline 130's and Cisco 2501's??? on our "router" ethernet I have : 1x2501 1x1003 1xP50 1x2501 (via a 4mbit radio ether bridge) 1xT/A (TA220, both serial lines hooked up to a FreeBSD box, sitting on the ethernet giving me 2x64k) I've load shared the 1003 and the P50. Right now I'm doing an evil tunnel across the P50 just to get BGP going with the person using the link. Then i have all that plugged into my FreeBSD gateway box, doing iBGP and linking two other ethernets. Which is why I'm thinking of trialling out a box with some multi-BRI and sync serial cards in it :-) Denis - you don't have any Australian redistributors, do you? Do you have anyone in Australia that has bought some of your products so I can see what they're like for myself? Considering that my company hasn't got the money to buy a 3640 to replace all the crap listed above, they're pretty hesitant to spend all this money on gear if its not going to work. (Although if you'll take it back if it DOESN'T perform and if I get a full refund I don't think they'll mind as much.. :) IMHO - ever seen a 2501 doing a BGP update? with >5000 routes? From two views? Its ugly, and can kill the router for a good two-three minutes. In contrast, my FreeBSD box picks the routes up, and chews though them in under a second or so. And its a DX2-66. Adrian -- Adrian Chadd | "Unix doesn't stop you from doing | stupid things because that would | stop you from doing clever things" From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 04:30:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA22384 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA22379 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 04:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA09258 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:26:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <33F43CF0.FF6D5DF@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:26:40 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure References: <3048.871608469@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'd like to suggest that this conversation has lost its value right > around this point and we're now heading down that all-too-familiar > vaseline covered slope towards a flame war with Dennis & co. Jordan it isn't often that one gets a good laugh during ones working day, but one source of humurous entertainment is Dennis when he starts slagging people off. It makes a break from the tedious stream of "why do I get login_getclass unknown class error" messages. I mean lets face it, people post a message saying "why should I save 20,000 on my router". Anyone who saves me that kind of money can be as rude to me as they like. The masochist side of me has even considered posting some "why should I buy your card" questions to Dennis so he'll slag me off, just for a laugh. Using the ET or SDL card you can get a Unix based BGP4 capable router to handle the full routing table at a fraction of the cost of a Cisco et.al. capable of the same. There are a steady stream of people who fail to grasp that and hence the recurring digest of "you rude person" -- "you utter moron". Long may it continue I say :-) regards damian Yes, I'm a very sad individual. -- * Damian Hamill M.D. damian@cablenet.net * CableNet & The Landscape Channel * http://www.cablenet.net/ http://www.landscapetv.com/ From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 06:04:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA25483 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (axe.cablenet.net [194.154.36.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA25477 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from axe (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by axe (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA09543 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:00:56 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <33F45307.ABD322C@cablenet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:00:55 +0100 From: Damian Hamill Organization: CableNet Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Dixon wrote: > > We use SDL cards, because at the time we evaluated them the SDL boards > were better made than the ET boards. That may have changed; Dennis's > notion of customer relations hasn't ;-) You just don't see the funny side Jim :-) Put it this way, the bandwidth limiting function of the ET card would be really useful in our situation. If you could limit the bandwidth from our network over your expensive links then you could give us an ethernet connection in Telehouse for our purchased bandwidth with additional lots of bandwidth across the LINX. The result would be lots of happy customers for me, which would improve my chances of staying in business and thus remaining one of your customers. It would also be cheaper for both of us because we wouldn't be using a high cost synch serial port. If you were to forget your differences with Dennis (or even just forget it's Dennis you are dealing with) and have another look at his products then this would become a possibility. I don't let personal relationships get in the way of business so for me Dennis's 'sales technique' :-) is far less important than the functionality of his products. > > For reliability, use one such BSD router per link to the backbone. > Our experience is that the routers themselves are disgustingly > reliable if you don't fiddle around with the source code -- they > simply don't fail. Bummer I was going to put 2 links per machine (There are two ports on the SDL card after all and I've bought the dual port option ET card). Is that simply because if the machine bombs you lose two links as opposed to one ? regards damian -- * Damian Hamill M.D. damian@cablenet.net * CableNet & The Landscape Channel * http://www.cablenet.net/ http://www.landscapetv.com/ From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 06:35:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA26840 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mexcom.net (mail.mexcom.net [206.103.64.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26831 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunix (eculp@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by mail.mexcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24863; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:34:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F45AC4.277FA18@mexcom.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:33:56 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Hay CC: "Randy A. Katz" , rh@alpine.net, isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure References: <199708150414.GAA10743@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk John Hay wrote: > > > I just spoke with the guy in sales at SDL. It seems they're tied in closely > > with BSDi and he seemed to think they would be able to offer a solution in > > that area (using BSDi, of course). I'm not so opposed to buying the OS if > > the solution is good and it means we don't have to buy a Cisco 4700. > > > > If you just want a normal Sync PPP or raw HDLC (Cisco mode) connection > FreeBSD 2.2 and -current supports the SDL RISCom/N2 ISA and PCI cards. > The man page is sr(4) and there is examples in LINT, although the man > page doesn't mention the PCI driver I see. Seems I forgot to update > that. :-( > > John > -- > John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za Correct me if I'm wrong but that means that with a SDL RISCom and gateD we can build the pentium, multihomed, router with full bgp routes. It appears that they WANT to sell their cards:-) Does anyone have something like this working? Thanks a lot, Ed From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 06:40:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA27131 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freefall.pipeline.ch (intranet.pipeline.ch [195.134.128.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27125 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opi ([195.134.128.41]) by freefall.pipeline.ch (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA352 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:39:38 +0200 Message-ID: <33F45C19.AEB078E@pipeline.ch> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 15:39:37 +0200 From: "IBS / Andre Oppermann" Organization: Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Is someone using DIGI SYNC 570i V.35 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi I've just got some DIGI 570i V.35 cards and I'm wondering if I can use it in FreeBSD routers like in 'Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure'. I've figured out that this cards are supportet in FBSD with the 'ar' device driver and I've to enable the 'sppp' pseudo device. What I'm not shure is how to ifconfig it or do I have to use kernel pppd for the lines? The second Q is what dev's are created (it has 2 sync ports up to 2M) because it isnt very well documented (sppp0 or ar0)? Is anyone else using this card and what is your experience with it? Thanks a lot -- Andre Oppermann CEO / Geschaeftsfuehrer Internet Business Solutions Ltd. (AG) Hardstrasse 235, 8005 Zurich, Switzerland Fon +41 1 277 75 75 / Fax +41 1 277 75 77 http://www.pipeline.ch ibs@pipeline.ch From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 06:42:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA27201 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mexcom.net (mail.mexcom.net [206.103.64.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27193 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 06:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunix (eculp@sunix.mexcom.net [206.103.64.3]) by mail.mexcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24964; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:42:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33F45CA4.678DB212@mexcom.net> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:41:56 -0500 From: Edwin Culp Organization: Mexico Communicates, S.C. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.14 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jim Shankland CC: bradley@dunn.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure References: <199708150515.WAA20995@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jim Shankland wrote: > > Gee: real content; thanks :-). > > I'm shocked at this business of paying through the nose for gated > (turn your back for a few years, and just look what happens). > Seems like it ought to be possible to start with the free version, > and have interested parties improve it for free, kind of like BIND. > Hell, I've even heard that there are whole free operating systems out > there, some of them rumored to be pretty good :-). > > I'm not volunteering (yet), but it's certainly food for thought. > > Jim Shankland > Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. >From the looks of this thread, their seems to be a L O T of interest. It might be interesting to through this out on the merit list gated-people@merit.edu, I think. There just might be some folks over there who agree. What do you think? ed From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 07:51:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA00391 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00386 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id HAA19084; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199708151451.HAA19084@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <199708150515.WAA20995@biggusdiskus.flyingfox.com> from Jim Shankland at "Aug 14, 97 10:15:52 pm" To: jas@flyingfox.com (Jim Shankland) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 07:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bradley@dunn.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Gee: real content; thanks :-). > > I'm shocked at this business of paying through the nose for gated > (turn your back for a few years, and just look what happens). > Seems like it ought to be possible to start with the free version, > and have interested parties improve it for free, kind of like BIND. And these ``intereseted parties'' could even probably come up with an interface that was closer to IOS so that the Cisco kids could have a chance of actually helping someone trying to configure ``FreeGated''. For those out there who have an interest in seeing something like this happen please feel free to contact me via private email, if I see enough interest I'll toss a mailling list up and throw a T-1 connected system on the internet to host the developement efforts on, form the 501(c)3 corporation, etc. > Hell, I've even heard that there are whole free operating systems out > there, some of them rumored to be pretty good :-). :-) > I'm not volunteering (yet), but it's certainly food for thought. I've been chewing on that food for a few weeks.... it taste's right, Merit is reaming the ISP's IMHO, and now that I am an ISP I would like to see something done about it. > Jim Shankland > Flying Fox Computer Systems, Inc. What time do you get into your office? I'd like to call and chat about a few things.... probably about time. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 10:17:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07108 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nak.myhouse.com (nak.myhouse.com [209.70.45.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07092 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1058 invoked by uid 1000); 15 Aug 1997 17:17:39 -0000 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:17:38 -0400 (EDT) From: zoonie To: Cassandra Perkins cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tape Drives for backups? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk from what i remember reading about the travan drives they were slow but i have never used one on freebsd. i currently use some refirbished exabyte 8200 8mm tape drives. they work great... On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Cassandra Perkins wrote: > What are the tape devices being used to backup FreeBSD servers? I've > heard that the 8mm tapes and devices are the most reliable, but what > about the Travan-4 devices? Is any having success using them with BSD? > Any horror stories or comparisons would be appreciated. > > Cassandra Perkins > The Loop ISC. > > From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 10:20:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07272 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.PII.COM (pii.com [192.77.209.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07265 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PII.COM by PII.COM (4.1/SMI-4.4) id AA21870; Fri, 15 Aug 97 10:25:03 PDT Received: from PII-Message_Server by pii.com with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:22:04 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:18:27 -0700 From: Robert Clark To: eddie@eaznet.com, kbrown@primelink.com Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: reverse DNS -Reply Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Put named on a FreeBSD box, and put entries in for each of the dialup lines. dialup1 dialup2 dialup3 etc [RC] >>> Eddie Fry 08/14/97 05:55pm >>> Kevin Brown wrote: > At 04:32 PM 8/14/97 -0700, Eddie Fry wrote: > > > >If I go to a site with reverse DNS > authentication from any server listed > in my in-addr.arpa file, no problem. The > problem occurs when a dial-in > user or a Win 95 machine on my network (but not > listed in my named files) > tries to access one of these sites. > Without a record in your in-addr.arpa.db, these > hosts will not resolve > reverse. So to answer your question quickly... > Yes. Do unto one, as you > would the other. > So, my dial-in users CANNOT be reverse authenticated unless I give each of them their own IP address? Kevin, please don't take this wrong. That doesn't seem right to me. You can't tell me that anyone that uses server assigned IP addresses is unable to, for example, download the US version of Netscape???!?!?!?!?!? Eddie > ; > ; domain.com.db > ; > blah > ; > first-host IN A 10.10.1.6 > > then; > > ; > ; 1.10.10.in-addr.arpa.db > ; > blah > ; > > 6 IN PTR first-host > > ////////////////////////////////// > /////////////////////////////////// > Kevin Brown > ---------->(kbrown@primelink.com) > -- email ->(darkstar@sockets.net) > ---------->(darkstar@frequency.net) > > Huber and Associates (www.primelink.com) > Frequency Networks (www.frequency.net) > /////////////////////////////////////////// > ////////////////////////// > -------------------------- > --------------------------------------- > Pursuate to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, > Subchapter II, Sec. 227, > any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent > to this address is > subject to a download and archival fee in the > amount of $500 US. > Emailing denotes acceptance of these terms. > ------------------------------------------- > ---------------------- From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 10:23:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07415 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yacko.netgazer.net (yacko.netgazer.net [208.12.177.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07404 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.12.177.224] (furball.netgazer.com [208.12.177.224]) by yacko.netgazer.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04506 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:33:19 GMT X-Sender: rootlist@netgazer.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:20:21 -0500 To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Darrin R. Woods" Subject: internal FBSD mirror Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk We a lot of FreeBSD machines internally and would like to have a better way to do upgrades on them rather than upgrading each one of them over the Internet. Our idea is to keep all the necessary files on one ftp server here and then just do the upgrades from there. It would obviously go faster and would cut down on our bandwidth over the Internet. My question is basically this: What directories do we need to copy down from ftp.freebsd.org in order to do this? Do we need just what is in 'distfiles' or do we need '2.2.2-RELEASE' or both? I'm sure someone out there has done this and we're just curious as to what we need to download. I realize that we could do it with a cdrom but we don't have that many drives and the ones we do have are only 2x, so over the net off of a hard drive array would be much faster. Thanks in advance. Darrin R. Woods | "Will Work for Bandwidth" Director of Operations | Netgazer Solutions, Inc. | Dallas, Texas 972.702.9119 | work: http://www.netgazer.net My employer most whole-heartedly denies everything I say From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 10:47:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08568 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rainey.blueneptune.com (root@rainey.blueneptune.com [207.104.147.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08560 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:47:15 -0700 (PDT) From: michael@blueneptune.com Received: (from michael@localhost) by rainey.blueneptune.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA00650 for freebsd-isp@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:50:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199708151750.KAA00650@rainey.blueneptune.com> Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 10:50:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Bradley Dunn" at Aug 14, 97 11:25:49 pm Reply-To: michael@blueneptune.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Gated is now pay-to-play if you want any of the newer features. See > www.gated.org for details. Basically it is going to cost you at least > $12,000 for the first year, and then $10,000 PER YEAR after that. That is > not trivial for the small to mid-size ISP. That reduces significantly the > cost savings of chosing a PC over a cisco. Has anybody been working on a free replacement for GateD? It's a wonderful product and all, but IMHO the current pricing scheme flies against the spirit of the net. (At least the old spirit anyway, it unfortunately -does- seem to embody the new spirit. :-/) I have nothing against Merit wanting to do what their doing. If it pays the research bills, gets things done, and their customers/partners are happy, then more power to them. But it would be really cool if there were a free version available, with active work in progress. Routing protocols are far from my forte, so I doubt that I'd get involved directly in such a project, although I would help where I could. But surely there are others out there who feel similarly, who -are- technically up to doing this? (Yeah, and I know, who have the -time- for that much pro bono work...) -- Michael Bryan michael@blueneptune.com From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 11:41:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11708 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.UU.NET (relay7.UU.NET [192.48.96.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11700 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccsales.ccsales.com by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: ccsales.ccsales.com [207.137.172.4]) id QQdcsw05650; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:46:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy Katz To: michael@blueneptune.com cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <199708151750.KAA00650@rainey.blueneptune.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Has anybody been working on a free replacement for GateD? It's a wonderful > product and all, but IMHO the current pricing scheme flies against the spirit > of the net. (At least the old spirit anyway, it unfortunately -does- seem > to embody the new spirit. :-/) > Is there any replacement routing agent which does BGP? > a project, although I would help where I could. But surely there are > others out there who feel similarly, who -are- technically up to doing this? > (Yeah, and I know, who have the -time- for that much pro bono work...) > I could learn to get involved in a project like this. Thanx, Randy Katz From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 12:21:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14005 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13929 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.8.6/8.8.5) id VAA28493; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:19:51 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199708151919.VAA28493@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: Is someone using DIGI SYNC 570i V.35 In-Reply-To: <33F45C19.AEB078E@pipeline.ch> from IBS / Andre Oppermann at "Aug 15, 97 03:39:37 pm" To: andre@pipeline.ch (IBS / Andre Oppermann) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:19:51 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I've just got some DIGI 570i V.35 cards and I'm wondering if I can > use it in FreeBSD routers like in 'Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No > Single Point of Failure'. Yes you can. > > I've figured out that this cards are supportet in FBSD with the 'ar' > device driver and I've to enable the 'sppp' pseudo device. > > What I'm not shure is how to ifconfig it or do I have to use > kernel pppd for the lines? Something like "ifconfig ar0 my.ip.address your.ip.address netmask net.mask" > > The second Q is what dev's are created (it has 2 sync ports up to > 2M) because it isnt very well documented (sppp0 or ar0)? Did you try "man 4 ar"? There is a paragraph "numbering" which does describe it. > > Is anyone else using this card and what is your experience with it? Well we are using it here, but as I'm the author of the driver it probably does not count. :-) The quality of the cards are very good. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 12:54:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15746 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.PII.COM (pii.com [192.77.209.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA15740 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PII.COM by PII.COM (4.1/SMI-4.4) id AA03354; Fri, 15 Aug 97 12:58:38 PDT Received: from PII-Message_Server by pii.com with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:55:47 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:51:39 -0700 From: Robert Clark To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, cassy@loop.com Subject: Tape Drives for backups? -Reply Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The last 4mil HP Dat drive I bought was approx 510$ US. I've had good luck with them in general, and the tapes are only 8$. For me, media price is important. If you only plan on backing up to one tape, the cheaper type tapedrives are great. If you backup often, and keep an ongoing set of tapes, it doesn't take long before a cheap tapedrive is costing big money. [RC] >>> Cassandra Perkins 08/14/97 04:13pm >>> What are the tape devices being used to backup FreeBSD servers? I've heard that the 8mm tapes and devices are the most reliable, but what about the Travan-4 devices? Is any having success using them with BSD? Any horror stories or comparisons would be appreciated. Cassandra Perkins The Loop ISC. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 13:02:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA16303 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw-fr1.etinc.com [204.141.244.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16296 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ntws (ntws.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA21068; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970815160142.00ea5e20@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:01:45 -0400 To: michael@blueneptune.com From: dennis Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure Cc: isp@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:50 AM 8/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > >> Gated is now pay-to-play if you want any of the newer features. See >> www.gated.org for details. Basically it is going to cost you at least >> $12,000 for the first year, and then $10,000 PER YEAR after that. That is >> not trivial for the small to mid-size ISP. That reduces significantly the >> cost savings of chosing a PC over a cisco. You'll survive for a while with whats available, and eventually it will be a marketing opportunity for someone. What they are doing is very questionable and I'm sure someone will challenge it...taking publically funded code and making it commercial is one thing, but prohibiting others from doing it without paying a hefty fee is clearly challengable. Im sure once a market arises there will be some sparks regarding gated. > >Has anybody been working on a free replacement for GateD? It's a wonderful >product and all, but IMHO the current pricing scheme flies against the spirit >of the net. (At least the old spirit anyway, it unfortunately -does- seem >to embody the new spirit. :-/) Its a shitty product, but a major undertaking, which is why its pretty much the only game in town. Once the pubdom stuff becomes less useful Im sure that others will pop up....its really not been worth it with gated around. > >I have nothing against Merit wanting to do what their doing. If it pays >the research bills, gets things done, and their customers/partners are >happy, then more power to them. But it would be really cool if there were >a free version available, with active work in progress. Routing protocols >are far from my forte, so I doubt that I'd get involved directly in such >a project, although I would help where I could. But surely there are >others out there who feel similarly, who -are- technically up to doing this? >(Yeah, and I know, who have the -time- for that much pro bono work...) I'd want to tear apart the interface, because its much too general. There should be direct routing info calls (rather than interpreting all the flags and such as it does now). It may be something that we could do, and even offer support for it, but the lawyers need to look at it first. Its not worth it.....yet. Dennis From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 16:22:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24646 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from absinthe.i3inc.com (Absinthe.i3inc.com [208.218.26.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24624 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by absinthe.i3inc.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id TAA27384; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708152318.TAA27384@absinthe.i3inc.com> X-Authentication-Warning: absinthe.i3inc.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: zoonie@myhouse.com Cc: cassy@loop.com, freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Tape Drives for backups? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:17:38 -0400 (EDT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:18:12 -0400 From: Chris Shenton Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:17:38 -0400 (EDT) zoonie wrote: zoonie> from what i remember reading about the travan drives they were zoonie> slow but i have never used one on freebsd. i currently use zoonie> some refirbished exabyte 8200 8mm tape drives. they work zoonie> great... Hi Carlos! I have a HP Colorado TR-4 drive. Cost about $350 mailorder. Tapes are about $30-$35 each. They hold 4GB to 8GB. Transfer rate is said to be about 30MB-60MB/minute. I like the fact that they're linear, modified QIC designs rather than the delicate helical scan. But I haven't used mine enough in a production environment to put it to the real torture test -- so far it's been fine though for my little home net. They work fine under FreeBSD. I'm backing up a 2GB Sun over the net to one attached to a 486dx100 FreeBSD-2.2 box. From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 16:53:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA27062 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27057 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from eddie@localhost) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA09279 for isp@freebsd.org; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:08 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:08 -0700 (MST) From: Eddie Fry Message-Id: <199708152355.QAA09279@Wicked.eaznet.com> To: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Who owns address Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anybody know of a way to find out who owns a certain address? When I do a traceroute it only shows the IP address. If I can't find out who owns the address, can I find out what domain it's in??? thanks, Eddie From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 17:04:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA27447 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phouka.oss.uswest.net (phouka.oss.uswest.net [204.147.85.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27442 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phouka.oss.uswest.net (localhost.uswest.net [127.0.0.1]) by phouka.oss.uswest.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02921; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:02:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708160002.TAA02921@phouka.oss.uswest.net> To: Eddie Fry Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who owns address In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:08 PDT." <199708152355.QAA09279@Wicked.eaznet.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:02:46 -0500 From: Brett Rabe Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:55:08 PDT, Eddie Fry wrote: >Does anybody know of a way to find out who owns a certain address? When I do >a traceroute it only shows the IP address. If I can't find out who owns >the address, can I find out what domain it's in??? Does this have anything to do with FreeBSD at all? Have you checked such utilities as 'nslookup' and 'whois'? Enjoy, Brett ------ Brett Rabe Email : brett@uswest.net Systems Administrator - !nteract Services Phone : 612.951.4138 600 Stinson Blvd. Pager : 612.613.2549 Minneapolis, MN USA 55413 Fax : 612.672.4131 / 4132 From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 17:18:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28057 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from venus.GAIANET.NET (vince@venus.GAIANET.NET [207.211.200.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28048 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (vince@localhost) by venus.GAIANET.NET (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA08809; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:18:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Vincent Poy To: Eddie Fry cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who owns address In-Reply-To: <199708152355.QAA09279@Wicked.eaznet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Eddie Fry wrote: > Does anybody know of a way to find out who owns a certain address? When I do a traceroute it only shows the IP address. If I can't find out who owns the address, can I find out what domain it's in??? yes, what you do is just try whois x.x.x.0 and then whois x.x.0 if that doesn't show and then whois x.0. Cheers, Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 17:40:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28986 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cre8tivegroup.com (abt6.bitwise.net [204.97.222.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA28981 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [204.255.227.121] by mail.cre8tivegroup.com (SMTPD32-3.04) id A7A7A28603A4; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:43:19 -0400 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.0 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199708152355.QAA09279@Wicked.eaznet.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:34:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick Gardella To: Eddie Fry Subject: RE: Who owns address Cc: isp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On my system, whois "IP" works. As in: whois 204.97.222.2 pat On 15-Aug-97 Eddie Fry wrote: >Does anybody know of a way to find out who owns a certain address? When I do a traceroute it only shows the IP address. If I can't find out who owns the address, can I find out what domain it's in??? > >thanks, > >Eddie From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 18:32:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA00458 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00452 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 18:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA07195; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:37:10 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:37:09 +1000 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Darrin R. Woods" cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: internal FBSD mirror In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > My question is basically this: What directories do we need to copy down > from ftp.freebsd.org in order to do this? Do we need just what is in > 'distfiles' or do we need '2.2.2-RELEASE' or both? > > I'm sure someone out there has done this and we're just curious as to what > we need to download. I realize that we could do it with a cdrom but we I do this *all* the time. Step 1. get wget from the ports. Then do cd ~ftp wget -nH -m -r -q ftp://releng22.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.2-970814-RELENG The -q flag makes the transfer silent, and you should use ftp to the site to work out which releng directory to get. If you want XF86-3.3 you'll have to get that separately. Danny From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Aug 15 19:37:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA03193 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wicked.eaznet.com ([206.62.254.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03188 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default ([206.62.254.157]) by Wicked.eaznet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09656; Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:38:52 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <33F51312.208F1415@eaznet.com> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:40:18 -0700 From: Eddie Fry Organization: Creative Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vincent Poy CC: Eddie Fry , isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who owns address X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks, Vincent! I didn't realize you could do a whois with a partial address. Oh well, I guess it was a stupid question. Eddie Vincent Poy wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Eddie Fry wrote: > > > Does anybody know of a way to find out who > owns a certain address? When I do a traceroute > it only shows the IP address. If I can't find > out who owns the address, can I find out what > domain it's in??? > > yes, what you do is just try whois > x.x.x.0 and then whois x.x.0 if > that doesn't show and then whois x.0. > > Cheers, > Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - > vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ > Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix > for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] > GaiaNet Corporation - M & C > Estate / / / / | / | __] ] > > Beverly Hills, California USA > 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] > HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists > Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 02:10:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA14481 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 02:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA14475 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 02:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) id KAA21689; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:10:21 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:10:20 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Damian Hamill cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <33F45307.ABD322C@cablenet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Damian Hamill wrote: > Put it this way, the bandwidth limiting function of the ET card would be > really useful in our situation. Bandwidth limiting isn't a function of the ET card. It's done with software. We have had our own bandwidth limiting software for a year or so... > > Our experience is that the routers themselves are disgustingly > > reliable if you don't fiddle around with the source code -- they > > simply don't fail. hence the comment regarding fiddling around with the source code. We do a lot of that. One of the problems with the ET card from our perspective is the lack of source code. We have source code for everything we use except for the ET cards that we bought for evaluation a couple of years ago (and now rarely use). > Bummer I was going to put 2 links per machine (There are two ports on > the SDL card after all and I've bought the dual port option ET card). > Is that simply because if the machine bombs you lose two links as > opposed to one ? No ... the original question was about multi-homing, etc. You can of course multi-home with one router. But if that router goes down both of your backbone links are gone, you are out of business. If you have two routers, each handling one of the backbone links, and one have them goes down, you simply have less bandwidth towards the core of the Internet. This makes it a lot easier to sleep at night. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 05:49:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA21843 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from junior.portal.net.au (junior.portal.net.au [202.12.71.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA21835 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from matt@localhost) by junior.portal.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA12886 for freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:21:18 +0930 (CST) From: Matt Baker Message-Id: <199708161251.WAA12886@junior.portal.net.au> Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:21:16 +0930 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Adrian Chadd" at Aug 15, 97 06:40:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Given two upstream providers is it possible to use a single or two FreeBSD > > boxes to do BGP routing and load balancing? And if so, what equipment > > should we use? T1 Cards? Routers? > I have a 486Dx2-66, 16mb RAM with 3 ISA Ne2000's as our main gateway box. > Currently it handles around 450kbytes/s on each interface at peak times, > I *also* on top of that run gated with iBGP sessions and an OSPF mesh > for internal routing, I think with the full AS1221 route map (about 5000 > routes, describing where Australia is), about 350 routes for the local > peering traffic, and another 50 for the OSPF mesh.. its handling it > quite nicely :) > > Now, if a FreeBSD machine can do *that* with 6000 ip route lines, I > think its doing pretty good. Interesting. I'm currently looking at starting to use BGP, and this thread is proving to be a mindfield of information! (Thanks!) I have a couple of questions, mainly due to my lack of understanding about BGP that I was wondering if someone could help with? Currently our main connection to the internet is handled by a Cisco 2501, but we have recently connected a second link via another provider. At the moment this second link is being tested on a FreeBSD box. >From what I've heard, the 2501 won't handle a full BGP load due to the lack of memory. A couple of questions: 1. Is it possible to only exist with a limited set of BGP data in Australia? Is this the iBGP you mention? 2. Would it be possible to let the 2501 handle the serial traffic on the link, with a default route to a FreeBSD box which then looks after the full BGP dataset? The second link could either also hang off the 2501, or the FreeBSD box. I really don't have any problem with using FreeBSD boxes as main routers, but we've got the 2501, so I might as well use it if possible. thanks again, Matthew. ------------- matt baker matt@portal.net.au Adelaide, South Australia. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 08:28:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA27545 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from voltage.net (voltage.net [208.15.104.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27540 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 08:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (sward@localhost) by voltage.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15292 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:30:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:30:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Susie Ward To: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: BocaBoard 1008 In-Reply-To: <199708151919.VAA28493@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering if anyone had sucessfully used the Boca 1008 8 port board for dialin modem connections? I read a few posts in the mailing list archives that said they wouldn't work for modems, but those posts were quite old too. TIA Susie From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 09:25:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29428 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29423 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 09:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27716; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199708161538.LAA27716@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: BocaBoard 1008 In-Reply-To: from Susie Ward at "Aug 16, 97 09:30:37 am" To: sward@voltage.net (Susie Ward) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was wondering if anyone had sucessfully used the Boca 1008 8 port board > for dialin modem connections? They don't have all the modem control signals. The 1008 uses 8 six pin telco jacks on the back of the ISA board, while the 16 port flavor has a bus interface that plugs into the ISA bus and a black box with the actual UART chips in it with DB25 ports with full modem support. The problem will be no way to detect dropped connections since DTR won't be present. I assume you're trying to reuse something you have lying around. If not look at the price difference - the 16 port version was only about $50.00 more than the 8 port version at CompUSA when I bought one a few weeks back. (Why specify Boca, you ask? They are rock solid at 115.2K baud in a microcontroller test setup I support, while other brands get data corruption resulting in dropped data packets. I suspect some boards have marginal line drivers and I get bad rise times and echos.) Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 10:28:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01616 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.primelink.com (ns1.primelink.com [206.24.58.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01611 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:28:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hack ([205.242.94.168]) by ns1.primelink.com (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11777) with SMTP id AAA92 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:00:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970816115519.009d64c0@mail.primelink.com> X-Sender: darkstar@mail.primelink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:55:22 -0400 To: isp@FreeBSD.ORG From: Kevin Brown Subject: Re: Who owns address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 04:55 PM 8/15/97 -0700, Eddie Fry wrote: Time to put eddie in the remedial course. >Does anybody know of a way to find out who owns a certain address? When I do a traceroute it only shows the IP address. If I can't find out who owns the address, can I find out what domain it's in??? > >thanks, > >Eddie > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Kevin Brown ---------->(kbrown@primelink.com) -- email ->(darkstar@sockets.net) ---------->(darkstar@frequency.net) Huber and Associates (www.primelink.com) Frequency Networks (www.frequency.net) ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------------------------------------------ Pursuate to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Sec. 227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. Emailing denotes acceptance of these terms. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 10:38:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02111 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from obiwan.psinet.net.au (obiwan.psinet.net.au [203.19.28.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02103 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.psinet.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA14847; Sun, 17 Aug 1997 01:07:45 +0800 (WST) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 01:07:45 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Matt Baker cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <199708161251.WAA12886@junior.portal.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Matt Baker wrote: > >From what I've heard, the 2501 won't handle a full BGP load due to the lack > of memory. A couple of questions: It can't handle a *full* BGP load, certainly. 16mb isn't enough for a full BGP feed. > 1. Is it possible to only exist with a limited set of BGP data in Australia? > Is this the iBGP you mention? Yep. I'm connected to telstra internet, and you can ask them for an AS1221-only feed, and they will give you a feed with about 5300 or so routes describing everything in Australia and some japanese stuff too. > 2. Would it be possible to let the 2501 handle the serial traffic on the > link, with a default route to a FreeBSD box which then looks after the > full BGP dataset? The second link could either also hang off the 2501, > or the FreeBSD box. What is your second link coming in via? You don't *need* a full BGP feed unless you want to start doing policy-based routing and some other cool things which most Australian ISPs don't need to ever worry about :) > I really don't have any problem with using FreeBSD boxes as main routers, > but we've got the 2501, so I might as well use it if possible. Believe it or not.. adrian@cortex:~$ uptime 1:46AM up 96 days, 14:21, 9 users, load averages: 0.15, 0.03, 0.01 Thats our FreeBSD box acting as our main gateway. neuro uptime is 1 week, 3 days, 15 hours, 20 minutes System restarted by power-on Thats our 2501 uptime. The only reason its at one week is because it locked up for 5 minutes while I was trying to fiddle redistributing 6000 BGP-learnt routes into OSPF..and then turning them off. NOT a good idea. The only reason I want to use a freebsd box instead of a cisco at this point is because I can build a PC that will replace the Cisco, but have more grunt. The CPU averages around 20-25% during peak, but while doing a BGP update of 5000 routes completely craps itself for a minute or so. Cortex on the other hand, does the update in a second, its a DX2-66 with 16mb RAM. And in case you're worried about memory.. neuro#show ip route summary Route Source Networks Subnets Overhead Memory (bytes) connected 0 4 192 712 static 7 4 852 2912 ospf 1 2 13 720 3684 Intra-area: 0 Inter-area: 0 External-1: 4 External-2: 11 bgp 7585 5283 606 282672 1061780 External: 5645 Internal: 244 Local: 0 internal 183 23790 Total 5475 627 284436 1092878 Thats with 5200ish telstra routes, and 300 local peering routes. People who say unix boxes don't make good routers should be shot. For low to mid end applications, using a PC is cheaper, can be thrown together and got working quicker (how long does it take YOU to get a Cisco 2501 in eh? :), and once running is as stable as hell. In fact, cortex has been just as stable as our Cisco, because all it does is run gated and route. -- Adrian Chadd | "Unix doesn't stop you from doing | stupid things because that would | stop you from doing clever things" From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 10:56:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA02724 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.harborcom.net (root@ns2.harborcom.net [206.158.4.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02719 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 10:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bradley@localhost) by ns2.harborcom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01419 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:56:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Bradley Dunn X-Sender: bradley@ns2.harborcom.net To: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <199708161251.WAA12886@junior.portal.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Matt Baker wrote: > >From what I've heard, the 2501 won't handle a full BGP load due to the lack > of memory. A couple of questions: It is more an issue of the 2501 lacking the CPU power to handle large changes in the routing table, but memory is also a consideration at 16MB. > 1. Is it possible to only exist with a limited set of BGP data in Australia? > Is this the iBGP you mention? Yes, there are a number of options you have to only take a subset of the global routing table. For example, you could have your upstreams only send you routes for their AS and customer ASes. Then you could use equal cost default routes over both of your upstreams and still ensure that traffic to upstream Y's customer doesn't go over your link to upstream X. http://www.netaxs.com/~freedman/multi.html and http://www.netaxs.com/~freedman/bgp/ have a discussion of this and other issues related to multihoming and BGP. iBGP is internal BGP, which is BGP spoken between routers in the same AS. For a good intro to BGP which will familiarize you with the terminology (with cisco specific stuff of course), see http://www.cisco.com/univercd/data/doc/cintrnet/ics/icsbgp4.htm > 2. Would it be possible to let the 2501 handle the serial traffic on the > link, with a default route to a FreeBSD box which then looks after the > full BGP dataset? The second link could either also hang off the 2501, > or the FreeBSD box. This may be possible if you use eBGP multihop. Your upstream would peer with the PC router instead of the 2501. eBGP multihop is more complicated that straight eBGP, though, and it has a few "gotchas" that you have to look out for. > I really don't have any problem with using FreeBSD boxes as main routers, > but we've got the 2501, so I might as well use it if possible. 2501s work fine for connecting customers. pbd -- Going to church does not make a person religious, nor does going to school make a person educated, any more than going to a garage makes a person a car. From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 11:22:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03838 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03833 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) id TAA22319; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:22:09 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:22:09 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Matt Baker cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: <199708161251.WAA12886@junior.portal.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Matt Baker wrote: > > I have a 486Dx2-66, 16mb RAM with 3 ISA Ne2000's as our main gateway box. > > Currently it handles around 450kbytes/s on each interface at peak times, > > I *also* on top of that run gated with iBGP sessions and an OSPF mesh > > for internal routing, I think with the full AS1221 route map (about 5000 > > routes, describing where Australia is), about 350 routes for the local > > peering traffic, and another 50 for the OSPF mesh.. its handling it > > quite nicely :) > > > > Now, if a FreeBSD machine can do *that* with 6000 ip route lines, I > > think its doing pretty good. Our principle interface router at the LINX in London is carrying 45,500 routes, handles over 30 external BGP4 peers and around 10 internal BGP4 peers, and runs OSPF as well. The peak traffic I have seen through it was roughly 10 Mbps through one interface, 20 Mbps through a second, and 30 Mbps through a third. It coped very nicely. The machine is a P120 on a T2P4 motherboard with 64 MB of memory. It's usually about 90% idle. The only time we have seen this machine overloaded was when all of UUnet's Cascade switches went mad a few weeks ago, causing massive route flapping all over the Internet. > I really don't have any problem with using FreeBSD boxes as main routers, > but we've got the 2501, so I might as well use it if possible. If you are only carrying 6,000 routes or so, then the 2501 is good for looking at the routing table. IOS is definitely better than gated for this purpose. You BGP4-peer the Cisco and your gated router(s). You can also use its serial ports to handle sub-T1 customers. If you try to look at the full routing tables with a 2501 these days, it just reboots continuously. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 13:08:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08260 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oak.alpine.net (oak.alpine.net [208.138.51.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08255 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from rh@localhost) by oak.alpine.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) id NAA06923; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:10:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Hodges To: Jim Dixon cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Jim Dixon wrote: > > > Now, if a FreeBSD machine can do *that* with 6000 ip route lines, I > > > think its doing pretty good. > > Our principle interface router at the LINX in London is carrying 45,500 > routes, handles over 30 external BGP4 peers and around 10 internal BGP4 > peers, and runs OSPF as well. The peak traffic I have seen through it > was roughly 10 Mbps through one interface, 20 Mbps through a second, > and 30 Mbps through a third. It coped very nicely. > If you are only carrying 6,000 routes or so, then the 2501 is good for > looking at the routing table. IOS is definitely better than gated for > this purpose. You BGP4-peer the Cisco and your gated router(s). You > can also use its serial ports to handle sub-T1 customers. Are you using the public version of gated (3.5.5?) or one of the restricted ($$$) versions? Would it be a mistake to use gated 3.5.5 to BGP-peer with Cisco IOS? It looks like $12000 to get into the latest versions of gated. Would it make sense for a number of interested parties to fund the membership so that all can receive the binaries? For instance, if freebsd.org were a "Small Service Member", that would give all organization members access to the source code, right? And they could freely include the binaries in the distributions... Or am I missing something? Just a thought :-) All the best, -Richard -------------------------------------------- Richard Hodges | (702) 888-3000 Alpine Internet | 400 Fairview Drive rh@alpine.net | Carson City, NV 89701 member, ISP/C From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 13:24:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA08908 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net [194.207.2.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08903 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 13:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jdd@localhost) by avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) id VAA22493; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 21:24:38 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 21:24:38 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Dixon X-Sender: jdd@avon-gw.uk1.vbc.net To: Richard Hodges cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Richard Hodges wrote: > Are you using the public version of gated (3.5.5?) or one of the > restricted ($$$) versions? 3.6a2 > Would it be a mistake to use gated 3.5.5 to BGP-peer with Cisco IOS? No. However, we did have a problem with gated crashing when passed some non-standard BGP4 options by Cisco routers. I don't recall the details, but it was fixed in a newish version. The fix is definitely in 3.6a2. > It looks like $12000 to get into the latest versions of gated. Would > it make sense for a number of interested parties to fund the membership > so that all can receive the binaries? For instance, if freebsd.org > were a "Small Service Member", that would give all organization members > access to the source code, right? And they could freely include the > binaries in the distributions... Or am I missing something? Just a > thought :-) Merit is trying to work out a formula for licensing gated cheaply to ISPs. If they get more requests, they will work harder. As I recall the contact is Susan Hares Email her about it. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015 From owner-freebsd-isp Sat Aug 16 17:31:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA20629 for isp-outgoing; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mylanders.com (mylanders.com [206.252.160.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20624 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nmorton@localhost) by mylanders.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11104; Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:33:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:33:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Nathan Morton To: Jim Dixon cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-homed - Load Balancing - No Single Point of Failure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Jim Dixon wrote: > > We have had our own bandwidth limiting software for a year or so... > Hello, What software do you use to do this? Nathan