From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Oct 26 01:12:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24392 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 01:12:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from soul.irex.urc.ac.ru (soul.irex.urc.ac.ru [193.233.85.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24368 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 01:11:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anton@urc.ac.ru) Received: from urc.ac.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by soul.irex.urc.ac.ru (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00804 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:16:02 GMT Message-ID: <345350A1.ECE2AE98@urc.ac.ru> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 14:16:01 +0000 From: Anton Voronin Organization: URC FREEnet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03b8 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel's nfs dramatically slows down a diskless workstation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, this problem appeared in stable a time ago, I was waiting for 2.2.5 issue with a hope it will be changed there, but it still exists. I have pseudo-diskless workstations (only swap, /tmp, /var/tmp and 2M ibm-dos partition for booting are on local disks; the rest is mounted from the server) each has only 8M RAM. When I compile and install a new kernel for one, it becomes very-very slow. Systat -vmstat shows that amount of interrupts take up to 78% of time, and up to 700 interrupts per second are produced by ed0 installed on IRQ10. The kernel compiled on 2.2-release works x*10 times faster (at least it makes me feel so). I tried to localize the changes between the modern stable and 2.2-release source code leading to this problem and found that if I take only nfs.h, nfs_bio.c and nfs_vnopts.c from 2.2-release (located in /sys/nfs/) and place them instead of the same -stable files, kernel after building works pretty enough. Because of nfs.h and nfs_vnopts.h differ in only function prototypes and calls, possibly the critical changes are located in nfs_bio.c. Can it be fixed or returned to previous version? Thanks, Anton -- Anton Voronin | Ural Regional Center of FREEnet, | Technical University of Chelyabinsk, Russia http://www.urc.ac.ru/~anton | Student / programmer / system administrator From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Oct 26 01:51:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA27545 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 01:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA27540 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 01:51:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrew@aaaaaaaa.demon.co.uk) Received: from aaaaaaaa.demon.co.uk ([158.152.178.85]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa1029941; 26 Oct 97 9:41 GMT Received: (from andrew@localhost) by aaaaaaaa.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.9) id JAA00397; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 09:40:55 GMT From: Andrew Wilson Message-Id: <199710260940.JAA00397@aaaaaaaa.demon.co.uk> Subject: Kernel 'make depend' fails on todays CVSUP... To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 09:40:55 +0000 (GMT) Cc: Home X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I cvsup'd to the latest release yesterday, ran 'make world' and then build a new kernel using a working customised configuration. 'make depend' reports some weirdness in .../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l: --- cut here --- 5> make clean rm -f *.o *.s eddep errs genassym kernel linterrs makelinks param.c symbols.exclude symbols.sort tags vers.c vnode_if.c vnode_if.h aicasm aic7xxx_seq.h aic7xxx_reg.h linux_genassym linux_assym.h 6> make depend cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DCOMPAT_43 -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -DMAXUSERS=10 -UKERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c cc -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I../../../include -DCOMPAT_43 -DFFS -DINET -DKERNEL -DMAXUSERS=10 genassym.o -o genassym ./genassym >assym.s rm -f param.c cp ../../conf/param.c . sh ../../kern/vnode_if.sh ../../kern/vnode_if.src make -f ../../dev/aic7xxx/Makefile MAKESRCPATH=../../dev/aic7xxx Warning: Object directory not changed from original /usr/src/sys/compile/AAAAAAAA cc -O -I. -c aicasm_gram.c cc -O -I. -c aicasm_scan.c ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l: In function `yylex': ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l:68: `T_DOWNLOAD' undeclared (first use this function) ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l:68: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l:68: for each function it appears in.) *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. 7> --- cut here --- Any ideas? Cheers, Ay. Andrew.Wilson@cm.cf.ac.uk http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk/User/Andrew.Wilson/ From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Oct 26 05:09:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03910 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 05:09:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA03905 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 05:09:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bde@zeta.org.au) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) id AAA21503; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:03:13 +1100 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:03:13 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199710261303.AAA21503@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: anton@urc.ac.ru, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel's nfs dramatically slows down a diskless workstation Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >When I compile and install a new kernel for one, it becomes very-very slow. >Systat -vmstat shows that amount of interrupts take up to 78% of time, and up >to 700 interrupts per second are produced by ed0 installed on IRQ10. >... >pretty enough. Because of nfs.h and nfs_vnopts.h differ in only function >prototypes and calls, possibly the critical changes are located in nfs_bio.c. This seems to be fixed in rev.1.42 of nfs_bio.c in -current (ld does a lot of small writes), and perhaps the i/o size of MAXBSIZE in 2.2.5 is too big. Bruce From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Oct 26 13:56:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22677 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:56:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from helios.whro.org (helios.whro.org [198.78.178.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22669 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 13:56:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bboone@whro.org) Received: from blueprint.whro.org (lunar-107.whro.org [198.76.164.107]) by helios.whro.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA07505 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:07:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:07:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199710262007.PAA07505@helios.whro.org> X-Sender: bboone@mail.whro.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG From: Bob Boone Subject: APACHE failures...... Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From the "LOOKING TOO CLOSE" department: I finally figured out my problem installing the new APACHE 1.2.4 via PORTS or via APACHE source/binaries...... THERE ARE NO "default" .CONF files as part of the distribution ( as they always were before...), they are .conf-dist (duh!) THOSE files are exactly where httpd looks for .conf .... so copying my OLD .conf files into that sub-dir SOLVED the problem. Sometimes you can see the forest for the "-dist". > > > > > Bob Bob Boone, Chief Engineer for Television WHRO-TV/FM 5200 Hampton Blvd. Norfolk, Va. 23508 Pager: (757) 860-3303 *** Ph: (757) 889-9466 *** Fx: (757) 489-4444 Internet: bboone@whro.org WebSite: http://www.whro.org ===================================================================== From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Oct 26 15:17:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26434 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:17:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from luke.cpl.net (luke.cpl.net [207.67.172.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26429 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:16:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from shawn@cpl.net) Received: from shawn.cyberg8t.com (shawn.cpl.net [207.67.172.196]) by luke.cpl.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA20925; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Shawn Ramsey" To: , "Bob Boone" Subject: Re: APACHE failures...... Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 15:16:46 -0800 Message-ID: <01bce265$3af5e8e0$c4ac43cf@shawn.cyberg8t.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>From the "LOOKING TOO CLOSE" department: > > I finally figured out my problem installing the new APACHE 1.2.4 via >PORTS or via APACHE source/binaries...... > > THERE ARE NO "default" .CONF files as part of the distribution ( as they >always were before...), they are > > .conf-dist (duh!) > > THOSE files are exactly where httpd looks for .conf .... so copying my >OLD .conf files into that sub-dir SOLVED the problem. > > Sometimes you can see the forest for the "-dist". It has been like this for a VERY long time, in fact, since ive been using it... at least 2 years I would guess. How old is Apache? From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 00:28:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26281 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:28:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26276 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:28:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@bubble.didi.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA09716; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 02:27:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from sjx-ca35-03.ix.netcom.com(204.31.236.131) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009706; Mon Oct 27 02:27:03 1997 Received: (from asami@localhost) by bubble.didi.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA00684; Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:51:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:51:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199710262251.RAA00684@bubble.didi.com> To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu CC: root@eyelab.psy.msu.edu, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Annelise Anderson on Thu, 23 Oct 1997 15:44:42 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: upgrading from 2.1-stable to 2.2-stable remotely? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Yes--get the sources, do make world without going to single-user mode, : * computer :) I try to be careful about changes to config files. You can do almost anything (including fsck) remotely if you use a serial console. Get a terminal server or use a null modem cable to connect it to a nearby machine. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 03:14:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA09094 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:14:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from vader.cs.berkeley.edu (vader.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA09088 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:14:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@bubble.didi.com) Received: from bubble.didi.com (sjx-ca35-03.ix.netcom.com [204.31.236.131]) by vader.cs.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA16261; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by bubble.didi.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id DAA02011; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:13:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:13:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710271113.DAA02011@bubble.didi.com> To: perhaps@yes.no CC: jkh@time.cdrom.com, imp@village.org, jdp@polstra.com, mark@quickweb.com, stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199710251652.SAA10816@bitbox.follo.net> (message from Eivind Eklund on Sat, 25 Oct 1997 18:52:55 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: CVSUP vs. SNAPS From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * (2) Make uname info of what is now 2.2-STABLE usable to determine if * features of a certain release is available. This is not nearly enough for moving targets like -stable or -current. What we need is something much more fine-grained if we want uname to return useful information. One thing we can do is to include __FreeBSD_version somewhere in there. (It is already available as "sysctl kern.osreldate", and has been used by many ports for this purpose.) However, looking at -current this value doesn't appear to have been bumped nearly often enough. I've been changing it in 2.2-stable as often as I notice something going in, but it's quite possible I have missed some stuff. Unless the 2.2 -> 2.2.5 change is accompanied by something else (like the one Nate mentioned) that makes the string actually useful, I am against it as it only moved the problem and adds a false sense of accuracy. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 11:07:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15438 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from eyelab.psy.msu.edu (eyelab.psy.msu.edu [35.8.64.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15427 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:06:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@eyelab.psy.msu.edu) Received: from eyelab3.psy.msu.edu (eyelab3.psy.msu.edu [35.8.64.180]) by eyelab.psy.msu.edu (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA14290; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:00:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199710272000.PAA14290@eyelab.psy.msu.edu> X-Sender: root@eyelab.msu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro 4.0 Beta 1 (build 175) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:03:10 -0500 To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) From: Gary Schrock Subject: Re: upgrading from 2.1-stable to 2.2-stable remotely? Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199710262251.RAA00684@bubble.didi.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA15433 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 05:51 PM 10/26/97 -0500, you wrote: >You can do almost anything (including fsck) remotely if you use a >serial console.  Get a terminal server or use a null modem cable to >connect it to a nearby machine. Hmm, now that's one of the more interesting solutions I've seen suggested. Unfortunately I'm not sure if I could convince the place to let us on another machine to do that with. Definitely will have to look into that. Gary Schrock root@eyelab.msu.edu From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 11:18:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16372 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:18:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from zerium.newmedia.no (root@oslo-1-6.newmedia.no [194.52.244.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16339 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 11:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hanspb@persbraten.vgs.no) Received: from localhost (hanspbie@zerium.newmedia.no [127.0.0.1]) by zerium.idgonline.no (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA03005 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:15:46 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 20:15:46 +0100 (MET) From: Hans Petter Bieker X-Sender: hanspbie@zerium.newmedia.no To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: adduser Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk any chance to add class support to adduser in -stable? -- Linux; 64bit, multi-platform, multi-tasking, multi-user, fast and Free. Microsoft Windows 95 - From the makers of EDLIN and FAT drive formatting! "Who needs horror movies when we have Microsoft"? From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 13:10:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA26631 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:10:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from homer.duff-beer.com (homer.barbour-index.co.uk [194.207.51.241] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26623 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scot@popart.org) Received: from popart.org (host5-99-52-28.btinternet.com [195.99.52.28]) by homer.duff-beer.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00227 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:08:39 GMT Message-ID: <345501F0.5FB5172@popart.org> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:04:48 +0000 From: Scot Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: upgrading from 2.1-stable to 2.2-stable remotely? References: <199710272000.PAA14290@eyelab.psy.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Gary Schrock wrote: > At 05:51 PM 10/26/97 -0500, you wrote: > >You can do almost anything (including fsck) remotely if you use a > > serial console. Get a terminal server or use a null modem cable to Can anyone explain what the idea of the serial-console stuff in the kernel configuration is? I tried it expecting boot messages etc to come out on the terminal I had connected to one of the serial ports, but it didn't do that.. The only way I could access the machine via it was using a getty on it - which of course doesn't need a kerlel config option enabled.... Any clues? Cheers - Scot. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 13:33:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28160 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from cerebus.asmrb.org (dynamic-addr-116.consensus.com [157.22.240.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28155 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:33:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmfangs@asmrb.org) Received: from dynamic-addr-115.consensus.com (dynamic-addr-115.consensus.com [157.22.240.115]) by cerebus.asmrb.org (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22238; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:30:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199710272000.PAA14290@eyelab.psy.msu.edu> References: <199710262251.RAA00684@bubble.didi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:16:42 -0700 To: Gary Schrock , asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) From: Christopher Allen Subject: Re: upgrading from 2.1-stable to 2.2-stable remotely? Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 12:03 PM -0700 10/27/97, Gary Schrock wrote: >At 05:51 PM 10/26/97 -0500, you wrote: >>You can do almost anything (including fsck) remotely if you use a >>serial console. Get a terminal server or use a null modem cable to >>connect it to a nearby machine. > >Hmm, now that's one of the more interesting solutions I've seen suggested. >Unfortunately I'm not sure if I could convince the place to let us on >another machine to do that with. Definitely will have to look into that. I had thought of that (as I have the remote server problem as well), but after my recent experience in upgrading I have decided not to. I didn't have any problems updating my system from 2.2.2-CD-ROM to 2.2-stable while in multi-user using the net. I should have disabled user login except to my one session (very easy to do) but as I had control over the user base I just told them not to log on for a day. Now there may be factors that are on other systems such as various oddball network services that should be off, and of course if you can do single-user it is safest, but being single-user isn't an absolute requirement. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- .. Christopher Allen 1563 Solano Ave., #353 .. .. ;-> Berkeley, CA 94707-2116 .. .. h510/528-9899 .. .. f510/649-3301 o510/649-3300 .. From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 15:26:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05339 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:26:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05328; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:25:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19971027152555.35306@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:25:55 -0800 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Hans Petter Bieker Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adduser References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.81 In-Reply-To: ; from Hans Petter Bieker on Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 08:15:46PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 08:15:46PM +0100, Hans Petter Bieker wrote: > any chance to add class support to adduser in -stable? It is. src/usr.sbin/adduser/adduser.perl ---------------------------- revision 1.19.2.8 date: 1997/10/14 17:34:01; author: wosch; state: Exp; lines: +29 -9 Merge support for login classes. Wolfram From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 15:46:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06670 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:46:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gaia.coppe.ufrj.br ([146.164.5.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06656 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:46:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonny@coppe.ufrj.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by gaia.coppe.ufrj.br (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12462 for stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:46:04 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199710272346.VAA12462@gaia.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Misc. problems with 2.2.5 To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:46:04 -0200 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I finally found a machine to install 2.2.5. A bit late for patches in -RELEASE, but these may help anyway. 1) sysinstall allows to enable quotacheck, but the GENERIC (and default) kernel does not have the QUOTA option. This option is useless. 2) sysinstall enables ypbind but does not set domainname or ypserver addres (to use with -Sdomain,server). Also, it does not change /etc/passwd, /etc/group and /etc/host.conf (this last one I prefer not to change, anyway). ypbind is useless, so. 3) An option to configure the dumpdev could be useful. Also, auto selecting one swap file if it's bigger than the total amount of RAM is an option. Would this help or confuse the novice user ? 4) Last thing in sysinstall: A ^L to redraw the screen would be handy. :) 5) LINT is lacking the bktr device. Maybe others. 6) kernel VISUAL_USERCONFIG: Does not know bktr device. Shows as unknown. Maybe there are more. 7) packages: samba is in the packages-2.2.5 dir, but is not in the INDEX file. Again, more problems like this may exist. 8) (Not exactly FreeBSD) XFree86 3.3.1 now comes without the contrib binaries. I really liked to use xload and xbiff. Maybe these could be packages now, huh ? Jonny PS: Jordan, sysinstall is getting really good !!! -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 jonny@coppe.ufrj.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro UFRJ/COPPE/CISI PGP fingerprint: 29 C0 50 B9 B6 3E 58 F2 83 5F E3 26 BF 0F EA 67 From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Oct 27 22:25:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA00303 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:25:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from zerium.idgonline.no (root@oslo-3-10.newmedia.no [194.52.244.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00293; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:25:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hanspb@persbraten.vgs.no) Received: from localhost (hanspbie@zerium.newmedia.no [127.0.0.1]) by zerium.idgonline.no (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA00665; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:24:52 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:24:52 +0100 (MET) From: Hans Petter Bieker X-Sender: hanspbie@zerium.idgonline.no To: Wolfram Schneider cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adduser In-Reply-To: <19971027152555.35306@freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > On Mon, Oct 27, 1997 at 08:15:46PM +0100, Hans Petter Bieker wrote: > > any chance to add class support to adduser in -stable? > src/usr.sbin/adduser/adduser.perl > ---------------------------- > revision 1.19.2.8 > date: 1997/10/14 17:34:01; author: wosch; state: Exp; lines: +29 -9 > Merge support for login classes. Sorry, I didn't see that notice. -- Linux; 64bit, multi-platform, multi-tasking, multi-user, fast and Free. Microsoft Windows 95 - From the makers of EDLIN and FAT drive formatting! "Who needs horror movies when we have Microsoft"? From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 00:10:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06261 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:10:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06236; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:10:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA28825; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:01:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:01:09 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson Reply-To: Annelise Anderson To: "Jay M. Richmond" cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: tin not working in 2.2-stable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 25 Oct 1997, Jay M. Richmond wrote: > Hello, > I get the following message when running tin under the latest 2.2-stable. > jayrich@room101$ tin -r > tin 1.3 unoff BETA release 970424 [UNIX] (c) Copyright 1991-97 Iain Lea. > Reading config file... > Connecting to newshost.cs.rose-hulman.edu... > Reading groups from active file...\tin: memory exhausted trying to > allocate 656064 bytes in file ././memory.c line 120 > > According to top there's plenty of memory available. > > Am I missing something or was something broken? It was working last night > before I compiled the latest stable kernel. As tin betas go, 4/24/97 is quite out of date--I used the 7/31/97 beta (a rather nice one) and September's offerings include 9/11, 9/23, and 9/30. These I got from the ports collection, but there's also a 10/18 I haven't tried. With the first two September betas the arrow keys quite functioning after one did something like posting or following up (but only when dialing in, not from the console). With 9/30, that doesn't seem to happen. I tend to think that tin is a little flakey, and what's not working probably has more to do with it than with a FreeBSD kernel or whatever. Try the 9/30 beta. Some of the people working on tin pay attention to posts on news.software.readers, but they're really only interested in the most recent version. Annelise From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 04:44:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA20195 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:44:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from megaweapon.zigg.com (tcgr-196.dialup.alliance.net [207.74.43.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA20187 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 04:44:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by megaweapon.zigg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA02122 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:44:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:44:25 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Behrens To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: ppp and Samba under 2.2.5-STABLE: real weird package, Dave... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been tracking stable for some time now thru the recent release at home, and decided to go ahead and cvsup our network server at work. Big mistake. We run ppp with -auto and -alias to allow web browsing and such. Here's my trouble log: 2.2.2-RELEASE binaries and kernel: Everything worked a-ok. 2.2.2-RELEASE kernel, 2.2.5-STABLE binaries (before reboot): SMB clients couldn't find the server (and the server can't even find itself, with smbclient) if ppp was running but not dialed in. If ppp was not running, or it was dialed in, no problem. 2.2.5-STABLE binaries and kernel: Also can't find the server; this time regardless of whether or not ppp was running, only worked if ppp was dialed in. I checked netstat -r to make sure we did indeed have a broadcast route; yep, we do. Other than that, the only non-standard part of our setup is one single static route to a satellite box, but that never should get in the way (right?) It didn't before, in any event. I'm going to recompile Samba to 1.9.17p4 as a last resort and cross my fingers... (presently running 1.9.17p3 compiled on the 2.2.2-RELEASE system, but that shouldn't make a difference, right?) Matt Behrens | Help bring a free realtime communication http://www.zigg.com/ | system to the Internet. Join the NetPager matt@zigg.com | Project! http://www.zigg.com/netpager/ From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 06:08:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA24713 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:08:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from netcom1.netcom.com (mvh@netcom20.netcom.com [192.100.81.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA24704 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:08:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mvh@netcom1.netcom.com) Received: (from mvh@localhost) by netcom1.netcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA00272; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:08:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:08:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710281408.GAA00272@netcom1.netcom.com> From: "Michael V. Harding" To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: How to start "ppp -auto" on boot? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have "ppp -auto someplace" in my "rc.local" file. As of the recent builds, this no longer starts ppp. This is a problem for me, as I admin some remote sites, and if they get rebooted, there's no way for me to contact them. Any suggestions as to where to start PPP? Thanks, Mike Harding From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 07:04:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27288 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:04:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from netcom1.netcom.com (mvh@netcom15.netcom.com [192.100.81.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA27281 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:04:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mvh@netcom1.netcom.com) Received: (from mvh@localhost) by netcom1.netcom.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA03908; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:04:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:04:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710281504.HAA03908@netcom1.netcom.com> From: "Michael V. Harding" To: mvh@netcom.com CC: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199710281408.GAA00272@netcom1.netcom.com> (mvh@netcom.com) Subject: Re: How to start "ppp -auto" on boot? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Never mind - it's working again, but I don't know why... Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 06:08:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Michael V. Harding" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: fab66bdd731fa77e03809bb1c36b3c67 I have "ppp -auto someplace" in my "rc.local" file. As of the recent builds, this no longer starts ppp. This is a problem for me, as I admin some remote sites, and if they get rebooted, there's no way for me to contact them. Any suggestions as to where to start PPP? Thanks, Mike Harding From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 11:18:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13797 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:18:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from isgate.is (isgate.is [193.4.58.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13788 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:18:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from totii@est.is) Received: from eh.est.is (eh.est.is [194.144.208.34]) by isgate.is (8.7.5-M/) with ESMTP id TAA09180; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:18:17 GMT Received: from didda.est.is (totii@ppp-21.est.is [194.144.208.121]) by eh.est.is (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14445; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:16:44 GMT Message-ID: <34563A75.41C67EA6@est.is> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:18:13 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur?= Ivarsson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael V. Harding" CC: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to start "ppp -auto" on boot? References: <199710281408.GAA00272@netcom1.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Michael V. Harding wrote: > > I have "ppp -auto someplace" in my "rc.local" file. As of the recent > builds, this no longer starts ppp. This is a problem for me, as I > admin some remote sites, and if they get rebooted, there's no way for > me to contact them. > > Any suggestions as to where to start PPP? > > Thanks, > > Mike Harding I start "ppp -auto" in /usr/local/etc/rc.d and works fine for me Thordur Ivarsson From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 12:41:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19069 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:41:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from jli.com (jli.com [199.2.111.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19063 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:41:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uucp@jli.com) Received: by jli.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0xQIRh-0002VsC; Tue, 28 Oct 97 12:41 PST Message-Id: Received: (qmail 433 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1997 20:40:19 -0000 Received: from softdnserror (127.0.0.1) by softdnserror with SMTP; 28 Oct 1997 20:40:19 -0000 To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: aic0 hanging on tape access Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:39:48 -0800 From: Bill Trost Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been seeing a problem with tape hangs on certain tape operations. To be specific: 1. OS was sup'ped to stable as of Oct 26 16:53 (from the timestamp on .../etc/cvsup/src-sys/checkouts.cvs:RELENG_2_2). 2. The tape drive probes as "ARCHIVE Python XXXXX-XXX 4.AF" type 1 removable SCSI 2. 3. The SCSI controller is an Adaptec 1515, which probes as aic0 at 0x340-0x35f irq 11 on isa. 4. Most tape operations (e.g., dump, restore, tar) work without problems. However the operation "dd bs=8k of=/dev/nrst0" with a single partial block of ASCII text on its stdin sometimes(?) causes the system to hang (no keyboard response, ctl-alt-F2 does nothing, I haven't tried ping). This has happened on a variety of different tapes, including a fresh-out-of-the-box one. 5. DDB (sorry, no GDB at the moment) usually says something like the following when interrupted: [break handling] --- int, eip = 0xf01c8fe0, esp = 0xf01e5f20, ebp = oxf01e5f58 --- _aic_dataout (f0428000, f06b5200, f06af60, 0, 0) at _aic_dataout+0x4f _aicintr(6, 80000000, 10, 10, 0) at _aicintr+0x6de [...] but sometimes it appears to be interrupted in the idle loop. I assume that the problem is actually somewhere else (how do I inspect the current interrupt mask from within ddb?). Any clues, suggestions as to where I should poke and prod, or kernel config options to help localize the problem? ("Buy a 2942", while it would fix my problem, won't help the driver any (-: ) Oh, kernel config follows: machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" cpu "I586_CPU" cpu "I686_CPU" ident GREY maxusers 8 options KTRACE options INET options MROUTING #multicast options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS # maybe this will make amd work options LFS #log-structured options MFS #VM filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=3" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options "AUTO_EOI_1" #Supposedly makes interrupts faster, but breaks suspend on some laptops. options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options USERCONFIG #options FAILSAFE options DDB # options DDB_UNATTENDED # prevents ddb-on-panic #options __SGNXPRO__ # Sounds galaxy stuff -- why out? options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG # WINE support options USER_LDT #allow user-level control of i386 ldt config kernel root on wd0 config sdkernel root on sd0 controller pci0 controller isa0 # floating point -- mandatory device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 disk wd1 at wdc0 drive 1 controller wdc1 at isa? port "IO_WD2" bio irq 15 vector wdintr disk wd2 at wdc1 drive 0 disk wd3 at wdc1 drive 1 # Works with Adaptec 1515! controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 #options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device joy0 at isa? port "IO_GAME" device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr device ed1 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 5 iomem 0xd8000 vector edintr # Disable sb0 in case it is causing problems at irq 2. #controller snd0 # controls all sound devices #device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 2 drq 1 vector sbintr # device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 # sb16 # device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device tun 2 pseudo-device bpfilter 6 #Berkeley packet filter pseudo-device disc # discard device pseudo-device pty 32 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's pseudo-device ccd 2 From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 12:46:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19318 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:46:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dpi.dgtu.donetsk.ua (root@dipt-57.6K-dgtu-gw.dgtu.donetsk.ua [194.44.183.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19288 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yk@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua) Received: from info.dgtu.donetsk.ua (root@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua [194.44.183.7]) by dpi.dgtu.donetsk.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20009 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:45:19 +0200 (EET) Received: (from yk@localhost) by info.dgtu.donetsk.ua (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA00168 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:45:09 +0200 (EET) From: Yury Yaroshevsky Message-Id: <199710282045.WAA00168@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua> Subject: Fatal trap 12 ... To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:45:08 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi All! I have problem now: ---------------------- cut here Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x4 fault code = superuser read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8 : 0xf0120263 code segment = base 0x0 = limit 0xffff = type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL =0 ---------------------- cut here After this message system was rebooted. But after reboot kernel can not load. FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE at Oct 1997. 486 DX2-80, HDD ST3660 (520Mb), 8M. Before install FreeBSD on this disk, HDD was formatted. Any bad block not found. I think about badly memory. Any ideas? Can I find bad SIMM? PS. On anower machine, this disk work succesfully. -- Yury V. Yaroshevsky | 380 (622) 356455 Donetsk State Technical University | yk@dgtu.donetsk.ua From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 13:19:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21600 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:19:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dpi.dgtu.donetsk.ua (root@dipt-57.6K-dgtu-gw.dgtu.donetsk.ua [194.44.183.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA21548 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:19:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yk@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua) Received: from info.dgtu.donetsk.ua (root@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua [194.44.183.7]) by dpi.dgtu.donetsk.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20163 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:18:17 +0200 (EET) Received: (from yk@localhost) by info.dgtu.donetsk.ua (8.8.7/8.8.5) id XAA02483 for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:18:07 +0200 (EET) From: Yury Yaroshevsky Message-Id: <199710282118.XAA02483@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua> Subject: touble whith 'make world' To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:18:06 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi All! I download stm-2.1.032[2345].tgz and make world. On the making rpcgen, compile was stopped. [pub@yk] 11:07pm [/usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen] # ls -l total 77 drwxrwxr-x 2 root bin 512 Oct 28 22:54 ./ drwxrwxr-x 184 root bin 3072 Sep 10 00:59 ../ -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 197 Sep 10 00:55 Makefile lrwxrwxr-x 1 root bin 23 Oct 28 22:54 obj@ -> /usr/obj/usr.bin/rpcgen -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 3669 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_clntout.c -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 7498 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_cout.c -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 8391 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_hout.c -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 9316 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_main.c -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 9263 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_parse.c -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 3478 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_parse.h -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 8436 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_scan.c -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 2317 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_scan.h -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 7874 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_util.c -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 2674 Sep 10 00:55 rpc_util.h -rw-rw-r-- 1 root bin 3463 Sep 10 00:55 rpcgen.1 [pub@yk] 11:07pm [/usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen] # make make: don't know how to make /usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen/rpc_svcout.c. Stop [pub@yk] 11:07pm [/usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen] # Where rpc_svcout.c??? -- Yury V. Yaroshevsky | 380 (622) 356455 Donetsk State Technical University | yk@dgtu.donetsk.ua From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 13:37:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA22909 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:37:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22901 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:37:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18820; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:39:17 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 08:39:16 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: "Michael V. Harding" cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to start "ppp -auto" on boot? In-Reply-To: <199710281408.GAA00272@netcom1.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Michael V. Harding wrote: > > I have "ppp -auto someplace" in my "rc.local" file. As of the recent > builds, this no longer starts ppp. This is a problem for me, as I > admin some remote sites, and if they get rebooted, there's no way for > me to contact them. > > Any suggestions as to where to start PPP? List tun0 in interfaces section of rc.conf and create /etc/start_if.tun0 containing the /usr/sbin/ppp -auto command. Danny From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 13:43:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23381 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:43:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23359 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 13:43:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA22414 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:43:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:43:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Make release Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've been spending the last coupl of days trying (unsucessuly) to make release. It's capped out at a variety of places, but the most serious happened a few hours ago and caused a system crash. Take a look at this: ===> lib/../secure/lib/libcrypt Bad system call - core dumped *** Error code 140 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. Bad system call (core dumped) {/usr/src/release} root@mortis: %. Script done on Tue Oct 28 15:58:33 1997 After that, I couldn't do anything. . . LITERALLY. Andything I tried to do gave my the bas system call error, dumped core, and did nothing. Any attempted longs on the other vty's would let me enter a login name, and then I would get the messages about getty repeating too many times; waiting 30 seconds. Ctrl-Alt-Del reset me without screwing the filesystem (whew!), but it also gave me a message right before rebotting about some procs will not die - ps -alx informed. Is this me or is this the source? AAAHHH!!!!!!! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 15:12:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA29300 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:12:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from jli.com (jli.com [199.2.111.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA29282 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from uucp@jli.com) Received: by jli.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0xQKnr-0002VwC; Tue, 28 Oct 97 15:12 PST Message-Id: Received: (qmail 1626 invoked from network); 28 Oct 1997 23:00:07 -0000 Received: from localhost.cloud.rain.com (127.0.0.1) by localhost.cloud.rain.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 1997 23:00:07 -0000 To: Yury Yaroshevsky cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: touble whith 'make world' References: <199710282118.XAA02483@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua> In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:18:06 +0200. <199710282118.XAA02483@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1607.878079576.1@cloud.rain.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:59:36 -0800 From: Bill Trost Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Yury Yaroshevsky writes: I download stm-2.1.032[2345].tgz and make world. [pub@yk] 11:07pm [/usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen] # make make: don't know how to make /usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen/rpc_svcout.c. Stop [pub@yk] 11:07pm [/usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen] # Where rpc_svcout.c??? I was bitten by that one, too, at one point -- apparently, that file momentarily "disappeared", or (more likely) the Makefile got updated before the file got created. I cvsup'd again and it suddenly appeared. So, you need a more recent version of the sources.... )-: From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 15:52:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01714 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:52:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from megaweapon.zigg.com (tcgr-43.dialup.alliance.net [207.74.43.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01709 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:52:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from matt@zigg.com) Received: from localhost (matt@localhost) by megaweapon.zigg.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03941 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:52:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:52:41 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Behrens To: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp and Samba under 2.2.5-STABLE: real weird package, Dave... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to help from a few individuals, I tracked down this problem. I believe bind-4.9.6 and samba don't cooperate well, most likely due to the new security measures in 4.9.6 (though I really have no clue when you get down to it) :) Adding -DREDUCE_ROOT_DNS_LOOKUPS to the flags line in samba's Makefile stopped the hangs. Matt Behrens | Help bring a free realtime communication http://www.zigg.com/ | system to the Internet. Join the NetPager matt@zigg.com | Project! http://www.zigg.com/netpager/ From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 16:36:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04148 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:36:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04099 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:36:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04019; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:20:02 GMT Message-Id: <199710290020.AAA04019@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Matt Behrens cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ppp and Samba under 2.2.5-STABLE: real weird package, Dave... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:44:25 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:20:02 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have been tracking stable for some time now thru the recent release at > home, and decided to go ahead and cvsup our network server at work. Big > mistake. We run ppp with -auto and -alias to allow web browsing and such. > Here's my trouble log: > > 2.2.2-RELEASE binaries and kernel: Everything worked a-ok. > > 2.2.2-RELEASE kernel, 2.2.5-STABLE binaries (before reboot): SMB clients > couldn't find the server (and the server can't even find itself, with > smbclient) if ppp was running but not dialed in. If ppp was not running, > or it was dialed in, no problem. > > 2.2.5-STABLE binaries and kernel: Also can't find the server; this time > regardless of whether or not ppp was running, only worked if ppp was > dialed in. [.....] Strange, 2.2.5-RELEASE + 2.2.2 samba binaries work fine here. > Matt Behrens | Help bring a free realtime communication > http://www.zigg.com/ | system to the Internet. Join the NetPager > matt@zigg.com | Project! http://www.zigg.com/netpager/ > From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 16:37:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04251 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:37:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04237 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:36:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04036; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:21:59 GMT Message-Id: <199710290021.AAA04036@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur?= Ivarsson cc: "Michael V. Harding" , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to start "ppp -auto" on boot? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:18:13 GMT." <34563A75.41C67EA6@est.is> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:21:59 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Michael V. Harding wrote: > > > > I have "ppp -auto someplace" in my "rc.local" file. As of the recent > > builds, this no longer starts ppp. This is a problem for me, as I > > admin some remote sites, and if they get rebooted, there's no way for > > me to contact them. > > > > Any suggestions as to where to start PPP? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike Harding > > I start "ppp -auto" in /usr/local/etc/rc.d and works fine for me The best place is in /etc/start_if.tun0 (as suggested in the handbook). But remember, you should have a blank ifconfig_tun0= line in rc.conf. > Thordur Ivarsson -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 17:20:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07151 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:20:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07099 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:20:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA21643; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:19:54 -0800 (PST) To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Make release In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:43:25 CST." Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:19:54 -0800 Message-ID: <21639.878087994@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Rebuild your kernel. Jordan From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 17:48:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09312 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from panda.hilink.com.au (panda.hilink.com.au [203.8.15.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09305 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:48:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from danny@panda.hilink.com.au) Received: (from danny@localhost) by panda.hilink.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA19039; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:52:33 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:52:32 +1100 (EST) From: "Daniel O'Callaghan" To: Brian Somers cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur?= Ivarsson , "Michael V. Harding" , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to start "ppp -auto" on boot? In-Reply-To: <199710290021.AAA04036@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Brian Somers wrote: > > Michael V. Harding wrote: > > > > > > I have "ppp -auto someplace" in my "rc.local" file. As of the recent > > > builds, this no longer starts ppp. This is a problem for me, as I > > > admin some remote sites, and if they get rebooted, there's no way for > > > me to contact them. > > > > > > Any suggestions as to where to start PPP? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Mike Harding > > > > I start "ppp -auto" in /usr/local/etc/rc.d and works fine for me > > The best place is in /etc/start_if.tun0 (as suggested in the > handbook). But remember, you should have a blank ifconfig_tun0= line > in rc.conf. Oh? Why do you need the ifconfig_tun0? Works for me without. You *do* need to list tun0 in the network_interfaces section. Danny /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 17:50:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09457 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:50:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09430 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 17:50:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (mail.futuresouth.com [207.141.254.21]) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28836; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:50:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 19:50:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Make release In-Reply-To: <21639.878087994@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Rebuild your kernel. {~} mortis:{79} %uname -a FreeBSD mortis.dyn.ml.org 2.2.5-STABLE FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE #0: Mon Oct 27 22:51:47 EST 1997 fullermd@mortis.dyn.ml.org:/usr/src/sys/compile/MORTIS i386 I doubt that's the problem. > > Jordan > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Oct 28 23:03:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25676 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:03:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (mail-atm.san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25671 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:03:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from studded@san.rr.com) Received: (from studded@localhost) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02690; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:02:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710290702.XAA02690@mail.san.rr.com> From: "Studded" To: "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Gary Schrock" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 97 23:02:12 -0800 Reply-To: "Studded" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: upgrading from 2.1-stable to 2.2-stable remotely? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:48:04 -0400, Gary Schrock wrote: >Is there any good way of upgrading a system from 2.1-stable to 2.2-stable >when you don't have console access to the machine? I've got a machine that >would definitely see some benefits in upgrading, but which I don't really >have access to (the machine's in california, I'm in michigan), and unless >we want to pay someone on site exorbiant fees to do the upgrade for us it >would be difficult to do unless it was done remotely. I do this all the time, and although it's not stress free, it's not impossible. :) Here are the steps I follow, influenced heavily by the excellent tutorial on the www site. http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/upgrade/upgrade.html Different people may argue that not all of these steps are needed, but after several succesful upgrades, and one or two failures, I do what works. :) Prior to starting the process below, I make sure I have 2 or 3 shells logged in just in case. The only way into our machine is ssh, but during the upgrade process I usually enable telnetd in /etc/inetd.conf just in case. 1. cd / 2. tar -c etc/* -f /home/studded/etc-date.tar 3. cd /usr/obj 4. chflags -R noschg * 5. rm -rf * 6. cp /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/MYKERNELFILE /home/studded/MYKERNELFILE 7. cd /usr/src 8. rm -rf * 9. mkdir dl 10. cd dl 11. ftp current.freebsd.org 12. cd pub/FreeBSD/latestsafe2.2snap/src 13. prompt 14. mget * 15. bye 16. /bin/sh install.sh all 17. cd /usr/src/etc 18. diff -bB the files in /etc with the ones here. After the problem with the ppp/network group, I like to fold the changes in first now. 19. cd /usr/src 20. make -DNOCLEAN -DNOGAMES world 2>&1 | tee /var/tmp/mw.out That's good for sh or Bash, see the www page for more info. Thanks to those who pointed out that if you rm /usr/obj/* the -DNOCLEAN option saves time. 21. While the server is compiling, I double-check the files in /etc, and check the GENERIC and LINT kernel config files to see if I need to make any changes or additions. 22. Once the make world is complete, I compile a new kernel, reboot, and cross my fingers. :) Moving from pre-2.2 to a 2.2 snap (which you should do to get the open( ) and vnode fixes) will present more of a challenge, but it's very doable. The most important thing is to take your time. Of course, if your systems are anywhere near San Diego, write me privately and I'll give you a much more reasonable price to handle it personally. :) Hope this helps someone, Doug *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 4,168 clients and still growing. :-) *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) *** Part of the DALnet IRC network *** From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Oct 29 06:53:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA19931 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:53:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp20.portal.net.au [202.12.71.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA19921 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 06:53:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA01044; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:19:27 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199710291449.BAA01044@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Bill Trost cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: aic0 hanging on tape access In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:39:48 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 01:19:26 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have been seeing a problem with tape hangs on certain tape operations. ... > 3. The SCSI controller is an Adaptec 1515, which probes as aic0 at 0x340-0x35f > irq 11 on isa. This controller, and the driver for it, are snot. You will need to look at a different controller I'm afraid. mike From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Oct 29 11:38:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07778 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:38:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dpi.dgtu.donetsk.ua (root@dipt-57.6K-dgtu-gw.dgtu.donetsk.ua [194.44.183.221]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07759 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:38:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yk@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua) Received: from info.dgtu.donetsk.ua (root@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua [194.44.183.7]) by dpi.dgtu.donetsk.ua (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA25492; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:37:43 +0200 (EET) Received: (from yk@localhost) by info.dgtu.donetsk.ua (8.8.7/8.8.5) id VAA19851; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:37:41 +0200 (EET) From: Yury Yaroshevsky Message-Id: <199710291937.VAA19851@info.dgtu.donetsk.ua> Subject: Re: touble whith 'make world' To: trost@cloud.rain.com (Bill Trost) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:37:40 +0200 (EET) Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Bill Trost" at Oct 28, 97 02:59:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Yury Yaroshevsky writes: > I download stm-2.1.032[2345].tgz and make world. Sorry for error :((( ctm-2.1.0325.tgz is lastes for 2.1-STABLE. This problem begin after setup ctm 322, 323, 324, 325. > [pub@yk] 11:07pm [/usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen] # make > make: don't know how to make /usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen/rpc_svcout.c. Stop > [pub@yk] 11:07pm [/usr/src/usr.bin/rpcgen] # > > Where rpc_svcout.c??? > > I was bitten by that one, too, at one point -- apparently, that file > momentarily "disappeared", or (more likely) the Makefile got updated before the > file got created. I cvsup'd again and it suddenly appeared. > > So, you need a more recent version of the sources.... )-: -- Yury V. Yaroshevsky | 380 (622) 356455 Donetsk State Technical University | yk@dgtu.donetsk.ua From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Oct 29 14:46:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21695 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:46:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21665 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12333; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:39:09 GMT Message-Id: <199710292239.WAA12333@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Daniel O'Callaghan" cc: Brian Somers , =?iso-8859-1?Q?=DEor=F0ur?= Ivarsson , "Michael V. Harding" , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to start "ppp -auto" on boot? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Oct 1997 12:52:32 +1100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:39:08 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The best place is in /etc/start_if.tun0 (as suggested in the > > handbook). But remember, you should have a blank ifconfig_tun0= line > > in rc.conf. > > Oh? Why do you need the ifconfig_tun0? Works for me without. You *do* > need to list tun0 in the network_interfaces section. I reckon it's best so that it's obvious that it's intentionally blank. If you leave it out, some kind soul is gonna come along and ``fix'' it for you :-I > Danny > > /* Daniel O'Callaghan */ > /* HiLink Internet danny@hilink.com.au */ > /* FreeBSD - works hard, plays hard... danny@freebsd.org */ > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Oct 29 17:33:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02760 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02736; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:33:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05960; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:33:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA15613; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:33:15 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:33:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199710300133.SAA15613@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Bill O'Hanlon" , Guido van Rooij , "Jonathan M. Bresler" , Brian Somers , Satoshi Asami , stable@freebsd.org, mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Announce:Suspend/resume support in 2.2 X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk For non-laptop users, unfortunately these changes require that you must re-configure your kernel from scratch, due to some renaming that was done. Sorry, hopefully it won't happen again. If you aren't interested in laptop support you can ignore the rest of this message. For laptop people, I'm really getting swamped at work (my mini-vacation is probably over), so I stayed late and committed the changes to 2.2, hoping that it's at least better than what's there. What it means to you is that you'll need to get the sources from this evening's commit spree: 1) back out *any* PAO patches in /etc (customized pccard.conf are probably fine) 2) re-build/re-install your include files to pick up the kernel changes 3) Edit your kernel config file (if not using GENERIC) to change crd => card 4) Re-config, build, and install the new kernel (don't reboot yet). 5) Re-build and install the pccard utilities in usr.sbin/pccard 6) Reboot and cross your fingers Known bugs: 1) One person gets a crash in vget() when he inserts his cards. I have no idea what's causing this, but it may be due to other changes in -current 2) John Polstra's box hangs trying to suspend with his modem. We're guessing, but it may be due to his BIOS not allowing the machine to fully suspend. Error handling is still completely non-existant for things such as this, but we're getting better. :) 3) PCI/CardBUS machines are not yet supported. When I get some more time. 4) Some machines don't recognize PCMCIA modem cards because of bad hardware. PAO disables a # of tests, but we're not doing that in the base distribution. I believe there is a way to have failed tests ignored, but I don't know the specifics. I'll be checking email on/off tonight, so if something is really hosed up I want to know. Thanks, and good luck! Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Oct 30 14:48:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17385 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:48:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mailhost.anasazi.com (mailhost.anasazi.com [138.113.128.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17373 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:48:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@anasazi.com) Received: from chad.anasazi.com by mailhost.anasazi.com (5.65/3.7c) id AA05222; Thu, 30 Oct 97 15:48:10 -0700 Received: by chad.anasazi.com (5.65/3.7) id AA06145; Thu, 30 Oct 97 15:48:07 -0700 From: chad@anasazi.com (Chad R. Larson) Message-Id: <9710302248.AA06145@chad.anasazi.com> Subject: FreeBSD MAKEDEV Hazard (fwd) To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 15:48:07 -0700 (MST) Reply-To: chad@anasazi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk E-mail from one of my users... Forwarded message: > From wbloom@wbloom.anasazi.com Thu Oct 30 12:35:06 1997 > Message-Id: > X-Mailer: XFMail 1.0 [p0] on FreeBSD > Sender: wbloom@anasazi.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:21:50 -0700 (MST) > Organization: Anasazi Inc. > From: William Bloom > To: ronr@anasazi.com, randy@anasazi.com, nate@anasazi.com, gentner@anasazi.com, > ktaylor@anasazi.com > Subject: FreeBSD MAKEDEV Hazard > Cc: chad@anasazi.com, naomi@anasazi.com > > A caveat about the FreeBSD /dev/MAKEDEV script... > > If you ever have occasion to recreate special device files for storage > devices, then here is something to be very careful about. Doing what > appears to be, at first blush, obvious from a brief look at the > MAKEDEV code in order to create new device files for, say, wd0... > > sh MAKEDEV wd0 > > ...is exactly what MAKEDEV itself does if called as 'sh MAKEDEV all'. > > However, the code which executes in order to create files for wd0 > will first create wd0 itself, then... > > for slicepartname in s0h s1 s2 s3 s4 > do > sh MAKEDEV $name$unit$slicepartname > done > > The above code will create device files for wd0 slices (s[1-4]), will > create device files for partitions wd0[a-h], and will -DELETE- any > special device files for partitions wd0s[1-4][a-h]. If you use MAKEDEV > in this fashion to recreate device files for disks that happen to > have partitions on which your critical mountable filesystems are located > (e.g. /dev/wd0s1e) and then reboot, the boot may fail. > > So, remember to use something like... > > sh MAKEDEV wd0 wd0s1a wd0s2a wd1 wd1s1a wd1s2a > > ...and so forth in order to get all the special device files. It is > not necessary to spell out -all- the partitions (a - h) since if > any one partition is mentioned ('a' in this example), then MAKEDEV > will generate special device files for all the others anyway. You > will have to specify at least one partition for -each- unit and slice, > though. > > If you get into a jam because you can't boot due to this kind of > problem, then go to the recovery shell prompt and do... > > /sbin/mount -f / To force the root filesystem to be > writable (otherwise you can't do a > mknod). > cd /dev > sh MAKEDEV As mentioned above; ignore 'chgrp' errors. > /sbin/mount /usr Mount the /usr filesystem > /usr/bin/find . -name -group 0 \ > -exec /usr/bin/chgrp operator {} \; > > The last command makes all the created special device files have > 'operator' group ownership. Pick a name pattern that catches the > raw devices, too (i.e. rwd0* as well as wd0*). > > I had to go through this exercise when I upgraded a PC from FreeBSD > 2.1.6 to 2.2.5 using sources. Recreating the device files -may- > not have been strictly necessary, but I am changing one whole > minor revision of FreeBSD and I know that there is new device support, > so I thought it would be a good idea. Too bad I got sabotaged by > /dev/MAKEDEV. > > > Bill > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > William Bloom > (602) 906-7525 > Anasazi, Inc. - 7500 North Dreamy Draw Drive, Suite 120, Phoenix, Az 85020 > -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-870-3330 chad@anasazi.com chad@anasaz.UUCP chad@dcfinc.com Anasazi, Inc. - 7500 North Dreamy Draw Drive, Suite 120, Phoenix, Az 85020 From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Oct 31 00:50:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22340 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:50:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.219]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22334 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:50:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from neumann@mailhost.rsn.hp.com) Received: from tfkws050.gsr.hp.com (tfkws050.gsr.hp.com [15.137.136.79]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id AAA21149; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 00:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfkws050 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tfkws050.gsr.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id JAA02665; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:54:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34599CAC.5A35@convex.hp.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:54:04 +0100 From: Wolfgang Neumann X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/735) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chad@anasazi.com CC: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD MAKEDEV Hazard (fwd) References: <9710302248.AA06145@chad.anasazi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chad R. Larson wrote: > > E-mail from one of my users... > > Forwarded message: > > From wbloom@wbloom.anasazi.com Thu Oct 30 12:35:06 1997 > > > > A caveat about the FreeBSD /dev/MAKEDEV script... > > > > If you ever have occasion to recreate special device files for storage > > devices, then here is something to be very careful about. Doing what > > appears to be, at first blush, obvious from a brief look at the > > MAKEDEV code in order to create new device files for, say, wd0... > > > > sh MAKEDEV wd0 > > > > ...is exactly what MAKEDEV itself does if called as 'sh MAKEDEV all'. > > > > However, the code which executes in order to create files for wd0 > > will first create wd0 itself, then... > > > > for slicepartname in s0h s1 s2 s3 s4 > > do > > sh MAKEDEV $name$unit$slicepartname > > done > > > > The above code will create device files for wd0 slices (s[1-4]), will > > create device files for partitions wd0[a-h], and will -DELETE- any > > special device files for partitions wd0s[1-4][a-h]. If you use MAKEDEV > > in this fashion to recreate device files for disks that happen to > > have partitions on which your critical mountable filesystems are located > > (e.g. /dev/wd0s1e) and then reboot, the boot may fail. > > This is exactely what happened to me the other day by playing around with 'MAEKEDEV all' to generate some device files in FreeBSD 2.2.2 ... Since I didn't had time yet to check for the boot failure, your info saved me some time. Thanks ! Wolfgang From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Oct 31 10:45:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26912 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca9-09.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26905 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.7/8.6.9) id KAA03904; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:45:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:45:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199710311845.KAA03904@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2-stable (Oct 9) NFS crash From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Our fileserver just crashed. Looks like it is NFS related. Details available upon request. Satoshi ------- ## echo bt | gdb -k kernel.9 vmcore.9 GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i386-unknown-freebsd), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc...(no debugging symbols found)... IdlePTD 205000 current pcb at 1e8ca0 panic: page fault #0 0xf0115103 in boot () (kgdb) #0 0xf0115103 in boot () #1 0xf01153c2 in panic () #2 0xf01be3b6 in trap_fatal () #3 0xf01bdea4 in trap_pfault () #4 0xf01bdb7f in trap () #5 0xf015cd67 in nfsrv_read () #6 0xf0174cc0 in nfssvc_nfsd () #7 0xf0174428 in nfssvc () #8 0xf01be5f3 in syscall () #9 0x2945 in ?? () #10 0x107e in ?? () From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 1 06:10:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20214 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:10:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from nak.myhouse.com (nak.myhouse.com [209.70.45.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA20209 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 06:10:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from zoonie@nak.myhouse.com) Received: (qmail 1621 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Nov 1997 14:13:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:13:25 -0500 (EST) From: zoonie To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2.5-stable problem? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk i just cvsup'ed 2.2.5-stable yesterday and when i try to recompile my kernel i get the following error: make -f ../../dev/aic7xxx/Makefile MAKESRCPATH=../../dev/aic7xxx Warning: Object directory not changed from original /u/src/sys/compile/NAK yacc -d ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_gram.y mv y.tab.c aicasm_gram.c cc -O -I. -c aicasm_gram.c lex -t ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l > aicasm_scan.c cc -O -I. -c aicasm_scan.c ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l: In function `yylex': ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l:68: `T_DOWNLOAD' undeclared (first use this function) ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l:68: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once ../../dev/aic7xxx/aicasm_scan.l:68: for each function it appears in.) *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. # does anybody have any ideas? i guess that i'll have to sitdown and try to figure this out...