From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 02:48:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10353 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 02:48:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dev.random.nu (rpc.ypxfrd@iskh122.haninge.kth.se [130.237.83.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA10347 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 02:48:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dev.random@dev.random.nu) From: dev.random@dev.random.nu Received: from localhost (random@localhost) by dev.random.nu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA24779 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:47:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dev.random@dev.random.nu) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:46:57 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: random@dev.random.nu To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: logging login.conf limits? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk wouldn't it be optimal if login.conf violations were logged in syslog/console? I see many uses for this (if there is not already a way to do this.. nothing was mentioned in login.conf that I saw). - finding attempted forkbombs. - finding when httpd & sendmail hit their login.conf limits. (which if some magazine reviewers knew about, we would probably been rated better). - violations of the hosts.deny & times.deny (when their implemented?) _________________________________________________________________ thomas stromberg % sysadmin(royal.institute.of.technology@haninge/stockholm) smtp(dev.random@dev.random.nu)%irc(devrandom)%talkd(random@dev.random.nu) From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 05:28:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20960 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:28:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from w8hd2.w8hd.org (w8hd2.w8hd.org [198.252.159.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20955 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 05:28:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kimc@kim.net) Received: from w8hd2.w8hd.org (w8hd2.w8hd.org [198.252.159.25]) by w8hd2.w8hd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08730 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 08:28:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 08:28:05 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan X-Sender: kimc@w8hd2.w8hd.org To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: telnet interop with SunOS and IRIX Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have been having problems when telnet to the above on a 2.2.5-RELEASE machine. If, when running VI, I hit several down-arrow key strokes, at some point it begins to apparently ignore the escape char and prints an upper case character depending on the arrow key. With the Sun machine for instance, if I hit down-arrow it will, after a few keys, begin to print an upper case 'B' after this point for each press. In the case of the IRIX 5.3 machine, it won't allow any arrow keys at all. It just returns a BEL character for each key press. If anyone has any info on this it would be very greatly appreciated. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 09:42:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02148 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ohio.river.org (river.org [209.24.233.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02143 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:42:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dhawk@ohio.river.org) Received: (from dhawk@localhost) by ohio.river.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id JAA13903 for stable@freebsd.org; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:27:08 -0800 (PST) From: David Hawkins Message-Id: <199711161727.JAA13903@ohio.river.org> Subject: _login_ class upgrade problem To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:27:08 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Upgrading from 2.1.7.1 to 2.2.5 OK, I did a make buildworld and then a make installworld and now no one can login. They get: /usr/libexec/ld.so: warning: /usr/lib/libutil.so.2.0: minor version 0 older than expected 2, using it anyway /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "_login_getclass" called from login:login at 0x6234 Connection closed by foreign host. I thought I was going to have time to merge /etc and rebuild the kernel before going over to where the computer is located and rebooting. later, david -- David Hawkins -- dhawk@river.org http://www.river.org "Why, look, Ted. It's a meeting of the new community leaders." "OOH! A town MEETING! Do we gets ta VOTE? I jes *LOVES* ta vote!" -- BONE From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 10:37:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05246 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:37:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (CMU1.ACS.CMU.EDU [128.2.35.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05241 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:37:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnw@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: from apriori.cc.cmu.edu (APRIORI.CC.CMU.EDU [128.2.72.117]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA20662; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:37:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:37:30 -0500 (EST) From: Robert N Watson X-Sender: rnw@apriori.cc.cmu.edu To: Studded cc: Alex Nash , FreeBSD Stable List Subject: Re: Serious problem with ipfw in 11/10 Snap In-Reply-To: <199711152131.NAA01650@mail.san.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Studded wrote: > On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 19:42:01 -0600 (CST), Alex Nash wrote: > > >On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Studded wrote: > > >> More detail on the problem in case it's useful. > >> > >> 1. The rule appeared as 00000 deny ip from any to any > >> 2. That rule, and only that rule persisted after a flush. > >> 3. IPFW was able to load my usual (well-tested) rc.firewall script just > >> fine, but none of the rules in it mattered because the 00000 rule was > >> always parsed first. > > > >It shouldn't be possible to generate a rule with #0 since that has a > >special meaning to the kernel -- that is, insert this rule after the > >highest numbered rule. I looked at the code, but can't see any way that > >this could happen. > > > >Just out of curiosity, did you also see the 65535 deny all rule? > > I had to get a copy of the log where the tech was explaining the > problem to me, and according to him, when he did a flush the only rule > present was 00000 deny ip from any to any. I asked him to double-check, > and he copied it exactly. Make sure you installed a revised ipfw. Something changed there, I think, as when I switched from 2.2.2 to stable a few weeks ago on my servers, I ran into exactly the same problem. A rule 00000 existed that denied all packets, and the ipfw delete call did not work (gave a interface error of some kind -- probably sctl, but don't recall). Since I could not insert any rules before it, I could not bring the network up. Fortunately, the machine had a floppy drive, so I did a buildworld on our build machine, stuck the new ipfw on a floppy, and took it on over. The moral really was that if you're going to make the leap to stable, do it for everything and not just the kernel. :) In particular, make sure that the /usr/include stuff is installed before building ipfw. With a new ipfw, the problem magically went away. I may have been misinterpreting both the symptoms and the solution, but I just thought I'd note that I had had a similar problem in a similar situation, and that a rebuild and update of includes and ipfw fixed it. From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 11:13:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07750 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [207.0.50.7] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07745 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:13:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gribnif@inconnect.com) Received: (qmail 9996 invoked from network); 16 Nov 1997 19:12:51 -0000 Received: from 1-2.dialup.inconnect.com (HELO gamer.hexen.com) (209.140.67.1) by mail.inconnect.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 1997 19:12:51 -0000 From: "Jason Morrow" To: Subject: how to load Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 12:12:46 -0700 Message-ID: <01bcf2c3$9fb33e40$01438cd1@gamer.hexen.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I installed 2.2.5 fine. I got all that I wanted. I also chose to have a boot manager. When I rebooted, it started windoze 95. I didn't even get the option of loading FreeBSD. Anyone know how to fix this or how I can load it? Jason Morrow UNIX, MS-Dos and Windows gribnif@inconnect.com The good, the bad, and the ugly... From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 11:41:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA09502 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:41:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09492 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:41:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xXAYR-0007Y5-00; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:40:23 -0800 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:40:21 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: David Hawkins cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: _login_ class upgrade problem In-Reply-To: <199711161727.JAA13903@ohio.river.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, David Hawkins wrote: > Upgrading from 2.1.7.1 to 2.2.5 > > OK, I did a make buildworld and then a make installworld > and now no one can login. They get: > > /usr/libexec/ld.so: warning: /usr/lib/libutil.so.2.0: minor version 0 > older than expected 2, using it anyway > /usr/libexec/ld.so: Undefined symbol "_login_getclass" called from > login:login at 0x6234 > Connection closed by foreign host. > > I thought I was going to have time to merge /etc and rebuild the > kernel before going over to where the computer is located and > rebooting. Don't worry about /etc too much, but you will need a new kernel. A ldconfig should fix the error above. ldconfig is done automaticaly done during booting too. > later, david > -- > David Hawkins -- dhawk@river.org http://www.river.org > "Why, look, Ted. It's a meeting of the new community leaders." > "OOH! A town MEETING! Do we gets ta VOTE? I jes *LOVES* ta vote!" > -- BONE > > Tom From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 13:13:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15574 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:13:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from room101.sysc.com (qmailr@richmojm2.student.rose-hulman.edu [137.112.206.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15569 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:13:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jayrich@room101.sysc.com) Received: (qmail 22248 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Nov 1997 21:12:58 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:12:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Jay M. Richmond" To: Jason Morrow cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to load In-Reply-To: <01bcf2c3$9fb33e40$01438cd1@gamer.hexen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I think you need to run /stand/sysinstall and write out the MBR with the partition utility, being sure to specify the use of a Boot Manager. You can also check out the multios tutorial http://www6.freebsd.org -- Jay M. Richmond BDIC Consulting Box 1229 bdic@sysc.com Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology http://bdic.sysc.com 5500 Wabash Avenue Cellular (317) 407-7701 Terre Haute, IN 47803-3999 Rose-Hulman (812) 877-8772 On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Jason Morrow wrote: > I installed 2.2.5 fine. I got all that I wanted. I also chose to have a > boot manager. When I rebooted, it started windoze 95. I didn't even get > the option of loading FreeBSD. Anyone know how to fix this or how I can > load it? > > Jason Morrow UNIX, MS-Dos and Windows > gribnif@inconnect.com The good, the bad, and the ugly... > > From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 14:06:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18622 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18604 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 14:05:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nash@Mercury.mcs.net) Received: from Mercury.mcs.net (nash@Mercury.mcs.net [192.160.127.80]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA10304; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:05:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (nash@localhost) by Mercury.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA02204; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:05:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:05:54 -0600 (CST) From: Alex Nash Reply-To: Alex Nash To: Robert N Watson cc: Studded , FreeBSD Stable List Subject: Re: Serious problem with ipfw in 11/10 Snap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Robert N Watson wrote: > Make sure you installed a revised ipfw. Something changed there, I think, > as when I switched from 2.2.2 to stable a few weeks ago on my servers, I > ran into exactly the same problem. A rule 00000 existed that denied all > packets, and the ipfw delete call did not work (gave a interface error of > some kind -- probably sctl, but don't recall). Since I could not insert > any rules before it, I could not bring the network up. Fortunately, the > machine had a floppy drive, so I did a buildworld on our build machine, > stuck the new ipfw on a floppy, and took it on over. The moral really was > that if you're going to make the leap to stable, do it for everything and > not just the kernel. :) In particular, make sure that the /usr/include > stuff is installed before building ipfw. > > With a new ipfw, the problem magically went away. I may have been > misinterpreting both the symptoms and the solution, but I just thought I'd > note that I had had a similar problem in a similar situation, and that a > rebuild and update of includes and ipfw fixed it. I think you may have hit the problem right on the head -- all this time I was assuming that Doug upgraded from a somewhat recent SNAP to an up-to-the-minute snap, but it looks like that assumption was very wrong. Here's what happened: Between 2.2.2 and 2.2.5, I made a fix for PR 4209 which allowed ipfw to work with long interface names. Unfortunately, it was not possible to fix this problem without breaking compatibility between the old ipfw util and the new kernel. I posted a warning to this effect to the -stable list just before the commit: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/search.cgi?words=nash+AND+ipfw&max=25&sort=score&source=freebsd-stable&docnum=2 I deliberately changed the interface structure so that the new kernel would reject configuration attempts from the old userland ipfw util -- the results of which would have been a disaster if went unchecked. That's why you got the interface error and none of your rules were in effect. For future reference, if anyone finds themselves in a similar situation (that being a new kernel and old userland), you can fix it by: 1. Copy /usr/src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.h to /usr/include/netinet (or make install in /usr/src/include) 2. cd /usr/src/sbin/ipfw 3. make && make install This will install an updated version of ipfw that will talk to the new kernel. Alex From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 15:10:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22165 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:10:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22160 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:10:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from studded@san.rr.com) Received: (from studded@localhost) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03113; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:09:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711162309.PAA03113@mail.san.rr.com> From: "Studded" To: "Alex Nash" Cc: "FreeBSD Stable List" Date: Sun, 16 Nov 97 15:09:41 -0800 Reply-To: "Studded" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Serious problem with ipfw in 11/10 Snap Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:05:54 -0600 (CST), Alex Nash wrote: >I think you may have hit the problem right on the head -- all this time I >was assuming that Doug upgraded from a somewhat recent SNAP to an >up-to-the-minute snap, but it looks like that assumption was very wrong. The base system I was using when I did the 11/10 upgrade was 2.2.1 if this makes any difference. Sorry I wasn't clear on that earlier. I was aware of the kernel/userland conflict, and made sure to build a new kernel after the make world completed. I also explained in a previous post that I always delete /usr/obj/* and /usr/src/* before doing a remote upgrade. >I deliberately changed the interface structure so that the new kernel >would reject configuration attempts from the old userland ipfw util -- the >results of which would have been a disaster if went unchecked. That's >why you got the interface error and none of your rules were in effect. In our situation, the rules loaded just fine, but ipfw flush wouldn't delete the 00000 deny all rule. >For future reference, if anyone finds themselves in a similar situation >(that being a new kernel and old userland), you can fix it by: > > 1. Copy /usr/src/sys/netinet/ip_fw.h to /usr/include/netinet > (or make install in /usr/src/include) > 2. cd /usr/src/sbin/ipfw > 3. make && make install > >This will install an updated version of ipfw that will talk to the >new kernel. Hmm.. is it possible that something happened during the make world process that used the old 2.2.1 version of ip_fw.h that was in /usr/include? If so, that would explain why rebuilding the next day with identical -Stable sources solved the problem. Doug *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 4,168 clients and still growing. :-) *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) *** Part of the DALnet IRC network *** From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 17:42:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00828 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (CMU1.ACS.CMU.EDU [128.2.35.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00812 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:42:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rnw@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: from apriori.cc.cmu.edu (APRIORI.CC.CMU.EDU [128.2.72.117]) by cmu1.acs.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01527; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:42:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:42:34 -0500 (EST) From: Robert N Watson X-Sender: rnw@apriori.cc.cmu.edu To: Studded cc: "braukmann@tse-online.de" , FreeBSD Stable List Subject: Re: Old stuff in 2.2.5 In-Reply-To: <199711152158.NAA12930@mail.san.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Studded wrote: > On Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:02:49 +0100, braukmann@tse-online.de wrote: > > >It should really be possible to explicitly exclude certain 'packages' > >from the 'make install' process. It just might be possible now by > >struggling with the makefiles, but I don't want to modify the delivered > >build-environment only for being able to select which components I > >want. > > I decided to experiment with this, and was able to prevent perl4 > from building during a make world by going into /usr/src/usr.sbin/Makefile > and deleting perl in the SUBDIRS section. I commented on this on another > thread, and a couple people have said that they've taken similar steps > with success. I'm not sure what all is involved with sendmail, but you > might want to give it a go, and tell us how it worked for you. :) I similarly tried this with BIND, as I was playing with the sbind distribution from TIS -- it was somewhat more complicated as BIND has binaries scattered all across the system. A better option might be to use flags in the individual Makefiles of major things (perl, bind, sendmail, etc) to enable/disable their compile.. Or to restructure the entire FreeBSD compile system, but I'm not sure that that is desirable :). > On another note, I'm taking the fact that no one else commented on > things that might need to be upgraded on a 2.2-Stable system (other than > perl and curses) as a good sign. :) I'm still interested in someone > 'splaining what a new curses library would do for me, and how hard it > would be to install if anyone is interested. I think I have perl beaten > into submission. As I mentioned above, the version of BIND in FreeBSD is an issue. Many now recommend running BIND 8.1.1, and I would recommend that similarly. I have remained with 4.9.x as that is what FreeBSD currently distributing, but have plans to transition my servers at some point in the future, as I will be working with the TIS DNSsec sbind8 code shortly. I am hopeful that FreeBSD will move to bind8 soon, but have not been following any discussion of the issue, so really cannot discuss anything about it :). The change in config files there is an important change though, and not something to take lightly. Robert Watson From owner-freebsd-stable Sun Nov 16 18:35:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03943 for stable-outgoing; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:35:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA03937 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 18:35:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gribnif@inconnect.com) Received: (qmail 24616 invoked from network); 17 Nov 1997 02:35:05 -0000 Received: from 1-141.dialup.inconnect.com (HELO gamer.hexen.com) (209.140.67.140) by mail.inconnect.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 1997 02:35:05 -0000 From: "Jason Morrow" To: Subject: install help Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:35:00 -0700 Message-ID: <01bcf301$6719eb40$8c438cd1@gamer.hexen.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk please make all replies to gribnif@inconnect.com (because I don't subscribe to stable) I installed FreeBSD 2.2.5. I chose to have a Boot manager. It never let me set one up. I cannot boot into my setup freebsd drive. Everything installed fine and stuff. On the drive there are 4 partitions, a DOS one a /, a /usr and a swap partition. Is there anyway to load FreeBSD from dos? Like Linux's "loadlin"? I'm really getting tired of re-booting. Jason Morrow UNIX, MS-Dos and Windows gribnif@inconnect.com The good, the bad, and the ugly... From owner-freebsd-stable Mon Nov 17 15:28:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23938 for stable-outgoing; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:28:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [207.0.50.7] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA23924 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:28:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gribnif@inconnect.com) Received: (qmail 25697 invoked from network); 17 Nov 1997 23:27:26 -0000 Received: from 1-63.dialup.inconnect.com (HELO gamer.hexen.com) (209.140.67.62) by mail.inconnect.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 1997 23:27:26 -0000 From: "Jason Morrow" To: Subject: newbie questions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:27:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01bcf3b0$58339360$3e438cd1@gamer.hexen.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk all replies to gribnif@inconnect.com Okay. I've got freebsd 2.2.5 installed and I can run it. However, I cannot use my modem. It always says "modem not configured". How do I configure it? Also, when trying to run X, it says "make sure that X is in your path or try the -- option." I tried the '--' option and it's in my path. It sill does not work. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Jason Morrow UNIX, MS-Dos and Windows gribnif@inconnect.com The good, the bad, and the ugly... From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 18 14:37:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00586 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:37:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [207.0.50.7] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA00564 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:37:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gribnif@inconnect.com) Received: (qmail 25664 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1997 22:35:56 -0000 Received: from 1-153.dialup.inconnect.com (HELO gamer.hexen.com) (209.140.67.152) by mail.inconnect.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 1997 22:35:56 -0000 From: "Jason Morrow" To: , , Subject: modem Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:35:52 -0700 Message-ID: <01bcf472$537bc280$98438cd1@gamer.hexen.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk How do I use my modem? Under linux you simply had to link /dev/cua2 to /dev/modem. However, when I ran Minicom it said 'Modem not setup.' What do I have to do to so that I can use my modem as a communications device to connect to the internet? Jason Morrow UNIX, MS-Dos and Windows gribnif@inconnect.com The good, the bad, and the ugly... From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 18 20:01:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23555 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:01:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23517; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:01:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA04997; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 00:45:36 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199711190045.AAA04997@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Jason Morrow" cc: questions@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org, support@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modem In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:35:52 MST." <01bcf472$537bc280$98438cd1@gamer.hexen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 00:45:35 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > How do I use my modem? Under linux you simply had to link /dev/cua2 to > /dev/modem. However, when I ran Minicom it said 'Modem not setup.' What do > I have to do to so that I can use my modem as a communications device to > connect to the internet? Use ppp (http://www.Awfulhak.org/ppp.html). Also, make sure your modem is probed properly (dmesg | fgrep sio). /dev/cuaa0 is COM1, /dev/cuaa1 is COM2 etc. I've never used ``minicom'', so I don't know what its problem is. > Jason Morrow UNIX, MS-Dos and Windows > gribnif@inconnect.com The good, the bad, and the ugly... > -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Tue Nov 18 20:04:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23856 for stable-outgoing; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:04:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (andrsn@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23840 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:04:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA12609 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:04:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:04:11 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Version Resolution? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Did the question of how to identify versions (or revisions or whatever) get resolved? Looking at /usr/src/sys/conf/newvers.sh, it looks as if what I'm going to get if I build a new kernel is 2.2.5-STABLE, without any identifying date ("sources as of") of the type that was discussed here earlier. Annelise From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 08:31:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA27316 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:31:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27304 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:31:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA10137; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:30:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA04895; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:30:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:30:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199711191630.JAA04895@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Annelise Anderson Cc: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Did the question of how to identify versions (or revisions or > whatever) get resolved? > > Looking at /usr/src/sys/conf/newvers.sh, it looks as if what I'm > going to get if I build a new kernel is 2.2.5-STABLE, without > any identifying date ("sources as of") of the type that was > discussed here earlier. Richard Wackerbath came up with a solution to it, but he fell off the face of the earth before it got completed. ;( Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 10:15:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06840 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:15:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06832 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:15:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02789; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:14:54 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711191630.JAA04895@mt.sri.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:14:01 -0600 To: Nate Williams From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Annelise Anderson , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 10:30 AM -0600 11/19/97, Nate Williams wrote: >> Did the question of how to identify versions (or revisions or >> whatever) get resolved? >> >> Looking at /usr/src/sys/conf/newvers.sh, it looks as if what I'm >> going to get if I build a new kernel is 2.2.5-STABLE, without >> any identifying date ("sources as of") of the type that was >> discussed here earlier. > >Richard Wackerbath came up with a solution to it, but he fell off the >face of the earth before it got completed. ;( No. After I did the initial implementation to a specification that you considered acceptable, you insisted that I add additional features. However, these features are not presently needed for the master FreeBSD archive. They would certainly be an improvement which I would consider attempt to add in a future revision. Rather than attempt to meet a "moving target" before ANY of my work is allowed in, I prefer to spend my limited time working within other projects where the methodology is specification driven. As I have complained before, there really is a double standard applied to participation. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 10:23:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07719 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:23:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07688 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:22:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA10885; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:22:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA05444; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:22:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:22:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199711191822.LAA05444@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Nate Williams , Annelise Anderson , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711191630.JAA04895@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> Did the question of how to identify versions (or revisions or > >> whatever) get resolved? > >> > >> Looking at /usr/src/sys/conf/newvers.sh, it looks as if what I'm > >> going to get if I build a new kernel is 2.2.5-STABLE, without > >> any identifying date ("sources as of") of the type that was > >> discussed here earlier. > > > >Richard Wackerbath came up with a solution to it, but he fell off the > >face of the earth before it got completed. ;( > > No. After I did the initial implementation to a specification that you > considered acceptable, you insisted that I add additional features. That is patently untrue. I *never* once agreed that the initial specification was acceptable, and continued to press for the need to have the solution deal with new branches 'on the fly'. In any case, why are you doing this? I'm trying to help here, and now you're jumping all over me after I sent you numerous emails over the course of 2 weeks *AFTER* 2.2.5 was released which you didn't respond to. > Rather than attempt to meet a "moving target" before ANY of my work > is allowed in, I prefer to spend my limited time working within other > projects where the methodology is specification driven. This is utter and complete BS. Richard, you have now made it completely obvious that you no intent on doing anything of the sort, and instead are only interested in taking potshots at developers from the stands without any interest or desire to make any real contributions to the FreeBSD code-base. If anyone really cares, I have the complete archive of the discussion squirelled away to prove my point. This is the last time I volunteer to help Richard with anything, since it's obvious that he's not interested in helping, and only wasting my time. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 14:01:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03880 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:01:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03874 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:01:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA03314; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:59:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:59:44 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson Reply-To: Annelise Anderson To: Nate Williams cc: Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711191822.LAA05444@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Nate Williams wrote: > > >> Did the question of how to identify versions (or revisions or > > >> whatever) get resolved? > > >> > > >> Looking at /usr/src/sys/conf/newvers.sh, it looks as if what I'm > > >> going to get if I build a new kernel is 2.2.5-STABLE, without > > >> any identifying date ("sources as of") of the type that was > > >> discussed here earlier. > > > > > >Richard Wackerbath came up with a solution to it, but he fell off the > > >face of the earth before it got completed. ;( I thought Rodney Grimes offered some code as well? Anyway, here's what uname -r does for me right now: 2.2.5-STABLE-971118 Perhaps it would be better if it just said 2.2.5-971118. However, the date should somehow or other come with the sources and identify the build as based on sources as of a particular date (with time if necessary). At least that's how it seems to me. Annelise From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 14:05:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04429 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04406 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:05:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA12502; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA06912; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:05:28 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:05:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Annelise Anderson Cc: Nate Williams , Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711191822.LAA05444@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Versioning the development kernels ] > > I thought Rodney Grimes offered some code as well? I don't even know if Rod is still alive, since he's been really quiet. In any case, I didn't see any Rod code. > 2.2.5-STABLE-971118 Where does the date come from? If it's generated on your box, then it's of little use since it doesn't say which source tree it was built from, which vary wildly depending on where your sources came from. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 14:31:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA06787 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:31:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from andrsn.stanford.edu (root@andrsn.Stanford.EDU [36.33.0.163]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06782 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:31:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu) Received: from localhost (andrsn@localhost.stanford.edu [127.0.0.1]) by andrsn.stanford.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA03447; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:23:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:23:01 -0800 (PST) From: Annelise Anderson To: Nate Williams cc: Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Nate Williams wrote: > [ Versioning the development kernels ] > > > > 2.2.5-STABLE-971118 > > Where does the date come from? If it's generated on your box, then it's > of little use since it doesn't say which source tree it was built from, > which vary wildly depending on where your sources came from. It *should* come with the sources, as I said, so that the date is valid no matter when the "make world" is done or when the kernel is built. This seems to be the hard part. In this specific case, of course, I have just added it to newvers.sh myself. Annelise From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 14:39:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07218 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:39:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07211 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:38:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA12776; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:38:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA07175; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:38:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:38:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199711192238.PAA07175@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Annelise Anderson Cc: Nate Williams , Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [ Versioning the development kernels ] > > > > 2.2.5-STABLE-971118 > > > > Where does the date come from? If it's generated on your box, then it's > > of little use since it doesn't say which source tree it was built from, > > which vary wildly depending on where your sources came from. > > It *should* come with the sources, as I said, so that the date is valid > no matter when the "make world" is done or when the kernel is built. > This seems to be the hard part. Right. That's the hard part. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 15:21:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA11526 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:21:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shasta.wstein.com (joes@shasta.wstein.com [207.173.11.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11493 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:21:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joes@shasta.wstein.com) Received: (from joes@localhost) by shasta.wstein.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02638; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:20:10 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Stein Message-Id: <199711192320.PAA02638@shasta.wstein.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: from Annelise Anderson at "Nov 19, 97 01:59:44 pm" To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:20:10 -0800 (PST) Cc: nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Anyway, here's what uname -r does for me right now: > > 2.2.5-STABLE-971118 > > Perhaps it would be better if it just said 2.2.5-971118. However, the > date should somehow or other come with the sources and identify the > build as based on sources as of a particular date (with time if > necessary). At least that's how it seems to me. So you make newvers.sh a dynamic file, with some hook or other(tm) built in to cvsup or whatever method you used -- even something as simple as looking at /usr/sup/* to get the timestamp from the sup statistics... to make it look like this: 2.2.5-STABLE-879981548 -- the time value in seconds since epoch. (okay, that's kind of lame, I admit, but...) joe From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 15:24:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12017 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:24:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11987 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:24:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA13102; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:24:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA07495; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:24:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:24:02 -0700 Message-Id: <199711192324.QAA07495@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Joseph Stein Cc: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711192320.PAA02638@shasta.wstein.com> References: <199711192320.PAA02638@shasta.wstein.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Anyway, here's what uname -r does for me right now: > > > > 2.2.5-STABLE-971118 > > > > Perhaps it would be better if it just said 2.2.5-971118. However, the > > date should somehow or other come with the sources and identify the > > build as based on sources as of a particular date (with time if > > necessary). At least that's how it seems to me. > > So you make newvers.sh a dynamic file, with some hook or other(tm) built in > to cvsup or whatever method you used -- even something as simple as looking > at /usr/sup/* to get the timestamp from the sup statistics... > to make it look like this: > > 2.2.5-STABLE-879981548 -- the time value in seconds since epoch. Sounds easy, but in practice it's a bit more difficult than you think, because of the many 'distribution' mechanims that are used by folks to get bits. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 16:30:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17242 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-12.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17237 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:30:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id QAA01153; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:30:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:30:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711200030.QAA01153@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu CC: nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Annelise Anderson on Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:23:01 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: Version Resolution? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * It *should* come with the sources, as I said, so that the date is valid * no matter when the "make world" is done or when the kernel is built. Yes. Besides, the kernel build date is already part of "uname -a". * This seems to be the hard part. Well, how about just adding RELDATE for now (while you guys work on the "automated" solution, that is)? At least if that value is updated often enough, we will be able to distinguish between versions with "major" differences (some library added, "top" added, before or after 3.0-release, etc...). Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 17:32:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22740 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22721 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:32:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12288; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:32:04 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199711200032.AAA12288@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: Annelise Anderson , Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:05:28 MST." <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:32:04 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ Versioning the development kernels ] > > > > I thought Rodney Grimes offered some code as well? > > I don't even know if Rod is still alive, since he's been really quiet. > In any case, I didn't see any Rod code. > > > 2.2.5-STABLE-971118 > > Where does the date come from? If it's generated on your box, then it's > of little use since it doesn't say which source tree it was built from, > which vary wildly depending on where your sources came from. The only way to get a reasonably useful date here would be to have an automatic cvs posting on freefall every day to (say) sys/codedate.h: #! /bin/sh mkdir /tmp/$$ cd /tmp/$$ for f in . RELENG_2_2 RELENG_2_1_7; do cvs co -r $f -l sys sed 's,\(#define __FreeBSD_codedate\).*,\1 '`date +%Y%m%d` \ sys/codedate.h >sys/codedate.h.new mv sys/codedate.h.new sys/codedate.h cvs update -m 'Bump date' -l sys rm -fr sys CVS done cd /tmp rmdir $$ > Nate -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 17:46:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23997 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:46:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23992 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:46:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14028; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA08213; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:46:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:46:12 -0700 Message-Id: <199711200146.SAA08213@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brian Somers Cc: Nate Williams , Annelise Anderson , Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711200032.AAA12288@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> References: <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> <199711200032.AAA12288@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The only way to get a reasonably useful date here would be to have an > automatic cvs posting on freefall every day to (say) sys/codedate.h: Yep, you've got it. However, this fails for people who get stuff via CVSup, which gets files directly out of the repository, and this file doesn't live in the Repository. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 17:47:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24110 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:47:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24102 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:47:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA14032; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:47:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA08220; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:47:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:47:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199711200147.SAA08220@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Cc: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711200030.QAA01153@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> References: <199711200030.QAA01153@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > * This seems to be the hard part. > > Well, how about just adding RELDATE for now (while you guys work on > the "automated" solution, that is)? At least if that value is updated > often enough, we will be able to distinguish between versions with > "major" differences (some library added, "top" added, before or after > 3.0-release, etc...). The granularity it too high. People are not likely to update RELDATE, so it's not nearly as helpful as something 'automatic'. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 17:55:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24659 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:55:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca34-12.ix.netcom.com [207.93.143.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24654 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:55:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.8/8.6.9) id RAA02766; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:55:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:55:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711200155.RAA02766@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: nate@mt.sri.com CC: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199711200147.SAA08220@mt.sri.com> (message from Nate Williams on Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:47:23 -0700) Subject: Re: Version Resolution? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * > Well, how about just adding RELDATE for now (while you guys work on * > the "automated" solution, that is)? At least if that value is updated * > often enough, we will be able to distinguish between versions with * > "major" differences (some library added, "top" added, before or after * > 3.0-release, etc...). * * The granularity it too high. People are not likely to update RELDATE, * so it's not nearly as helpful as something 'automatic'. Of course. That's why I said it's a temporary solution. At least it should be good enough for some uses. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Nov 19 19:59:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03792 for stable-outgoing; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:59:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03784 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:59:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13185; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:59:12 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711200032.AAA12288@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> References: Your message of "Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:05:28 MST." <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:54:27 -0600 To: Brian Somers From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Annelise Anderson , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 6:32 PM -0600 11/19/97, Brian Somers wrote: >The only way to get a reasonably useful date here would be to have an >automatic cvs posting on freefall every day to (say) sys/codedate.h: > > #! /bin/sh > mkdir /tmp/$$ > cd /tmp/$$ > for f in . RELENG_2_2 RELENG_2_1_7; do > cvs co -r $f -l sys > sed 's,\(#define __FreeBSD_codedate\).*,\1 '`date +%Y%m%d` \ > sys/codedate.h >sys/codedate.h.new > mv sys/codedate.h.new sys/codedate.h > cvs update -m 'Bump date' -l sys > rm -fr sys CVS > done > cd /tmp > rmdir $$ The problem with this is that the file (sys/codedate.h in your case) grows MUCH too rapidly for this to be useful. It also forces CTM to send out an update every time it runs, even if there are no other changes. My solution is similar. I do a pseudo update iff the branch has changed. Also, to avoid unreasonable growth of the file, I discard old values. This technique SHOULD get a useful resolution of a couple days. Because the updates and snapshots of the tree are async to each other, you cannot do any better except by reducing the granularity. Even if you reduce the granularity to milliseconds, there is always some uncertainty because the operations overlap. IMHO, a grain size of one day should be a reasonable compromise. For individuals who are not DIRECTLY accessing the master tree (which is MOST of the world), the technique works. There are two conditions that my code does not address. This is where Nate and I seem to differ. In my extended discussions with him BEFORE I wrote any of the code, we discussed these issues. I thought that he had agreed that they fell in the "nice, but not essential" category, and, as such, could be deferred to a later revision. However, since I finished the present version of the code only shortly before 2.2.5 was to be released, it was agreed that the time was not appropriate to commit the code at that time. Since, in Nate's opinion, there was time to do more, he unilaterally raised the requirements. Since I have not "solved" these additional problems, he seems to feel that my submission is unacceptable. The first involves the automatic recognition of new BRANCHES in the tree. This feature can be added. IMHO, this can aloso be handled manually for the present time. I have not seen more than about one or two new branches added in the same year. The second problem has to do with persons who DIRECTLY access the MASTER tree. I do not think that it is even possible to make the mechanism totally transparent for them. (Checking out the head of a branch and then tagging the tree does not produce the same result as you would get by checking out the tag at a future time.) However, I don't feel that this is important. The purpose of this mechanism is to differenciate different trees checked out by the same (head) tag. IMHO, anyone who falls in the DIRECT category or checks things out on the basis of a non-head tag should be able to make an appropriate characterization of the tree that they are using by some alternate means. This mechanism is intended ONLY for the benefit of those who need to have some idea of "which 'stable' (or 'current') system" is being used by the users who are simply tracking "the latest" of their intended branch. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 08:10:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14272 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:10:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14266 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:10:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA18942; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:10:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA10077; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:10:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:10:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199711201610.JAA10077@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Brian Somers , Annelise Anderson , freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> <199711200032.AAA12288@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > For individuals who are not DIRECTLY accessing the master tree (which > is MOST of the world), the technique works. There are two conditions > that my code does not address. This is where Nate and I seem to > differ. In my extended discussions with him BEFORE I wrote any of > the code, we discussed these issues. I thought that he had agreed > that they fell in the "nice, but not essential" category We discussed the requirements, and I we agreed that we weren't sure if it was required. But, upon further thought and with a couple different (easily capable) possibilities, I showed that your solution was inadequate and would cause essentially 'corrupted' RCS files when new tags were made, which would cause both CVSup and CTM to either blow chunks or distribute corrupt RCS files. This is unacceptable. , and, as > such, could be deferred to a later revision. However, since I > finished the present version of the code only shortly before 2.2.5 > was to be released, it was agreed that the time was not appropriate > to commit the code at that time. Since, in Nate's opinion, there > was time to do more, he unilaterally raised the requirements. Unilaterally raised the requirements. Wow, I didn't realize I could something that sounds so, so, so cool and hip. :) > Since I have not "solved" these additional problems, he seems to > feel that my submission is unacceptable. Because of RCS file corruption, yes. > The first involves the automatic recognition of new BRANCHES in the > tree. This feature can be added. IMHO, this can aloso be handled > manually for the present time. I have not seen more than about one > or two new branches added in the same year. It happens more often than that. Heck, Julian has plans to add a new one in the near future. In any case, even if it happened once/year, if you corrupt the 'template' RCS file you risk breaking someone's tree or causing more questions than the solution fixes. This is unacceptable. I talked with John about the 'normal' RCS files that would be generated, and he wasn't sure what CVSup would do with them, let alone an RCS file where branches bounce around whenever they're created. The problems do NOT outweigh the solution, and that is why I 'unilaterally raised the requirements'. That is in my authority to do so, since *I'm* the one taking the heat for committing the code and breaking the FreeBSD and SRI CVS trees. As an engineer, if I feel a solution is inadequate, it is well within my rights to reject it on technical grounds, which I did. And, you can argue all day long about 'changing the rules', but bogus code is bogus code, and I'm not going to break the tree to make you have a warm-fuzzy feeling inside. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 14:10:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12775 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12770 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:10:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id PAA04098; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:08:13 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711202208.PAA04098@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:08:12 -0700 (MST) Cc: rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711201610.JAA10077@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 09:10:39 am" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Since I have not "solved" these additional problems, he seems to > > feel that my submission is unacceptable. > > Because of RCS file corruption, yes. Ok, so perhaps we've beaten this particular solution to death. But as the guy who raised the issue in the first place, I'd like to see some thought and effort into an acceptable solution. Seems to me the commit process, however managed, needs to bump a counter (or date/time or somesuch...) at each and every commit. The counter/timestamp needs enough digits so as not to wrap in the forseeable future. I'd like to be able to find the information via uname, so I'd put it in newvers.sh. Why would this be hard to do? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 14:18:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13358 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:18:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13352 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:18:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA21226; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:18:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA11561; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:18:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:18:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711202208.PAA04098@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711201610.JAA10077@mt.sri.com> <199711202208.PAA04098@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Ok, so perhaps we've beaten this particular solution to death. But as > the guy who raised the issue in the first place, I'd like to see some > thought and effort into an acceptable solution. > > Seems to me the commit process, however managed, needs to bump a counter > (or date/time or somesuch...) at each and every commit. The > counter/timestamp needs enough digits so as not to wrap in the > forseeable future. I'd like to be able to find the information via > uname, so I'd put it in newvers.sh. > > Why would this be hard to do? Where is this 'counter' stored? It's got to be in one place so that all of the different distribution mechanisms get the same information if they grab the same file (CTM/CVS/CVSup). If not in one place, then all of the distribution mechanism must generate the *EXACT* same information given the *EXACT* same information, and given that the propogation delays of the sources throughout the world, then simple timestamps won't work. So, how do you do it? Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 15:08:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17060 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:08:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from word.smith.net.au (s204m101.whistle.com [207.76.204.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17016 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:07:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00612; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:30:05 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: chad@dcfinc.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:18:00 PDT." <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:30:04 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Where is this 'counter' stored? It's got to be in one place so that all > of the different distribution mechanisms get the same information if > they grab the same file (CTM/CVS/CVSup). If not in one place, then all > of the distribution mechanism must generate the *EXACT* same information > given the *EXACT* same information, and given that the propogation > delays of the sources throughout the world, then simple timestamps won't > work. > > So, how do you do it? It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. TBH, I don't see this as a major problem, other than that it requires (yet )a(nother) hack to CVS. mike From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 15:21:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA18492 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:21:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA18453 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:21:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA21642; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:21:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA11798; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:21:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:21:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith Cc: Nate Williams , chad@dcfinc.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> References: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> <199711202300.JAA00612@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Where is this 'counter' stored? It's got to be in one place so that all > > of the different distribution mechanisms get the same information if > > they grab the same file (CTM/CVS/CVSup). If not in one place, then all > > of the distribution mechanism must generate the *EXACT* same information > > given the *EXACT* same information, and given that the propogation > > delays of the sources throughout the world, then simple timestamps won't > > work. > > > > So, how do you do it? > > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:28:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24005 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:28:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23982 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:28:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id RAA04348; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:25:40 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711210025.RAA04348@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:25:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 03:18:00 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > It's got to be in one place so that all > of the different distribution mechanisms get the same information if > they grab the same file (CTM/CVS/CVSup). If not in one place, then all > of the distribution mechanism must generate the *EXACT* same information > given the *EXACT* same information, and given that the propogation > delays of the sources throughout the world, then simple timestamps won't > work. > > So, how do you do it? It would have to be a custom hack to CVS, letting it generate newvers.sh on the fly at each commit. Then "simple timestamps" =would= work. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:30:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24166 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:30:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24129 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22084; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:29:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA12133; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:29:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:29:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199711210029.RAA12133@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711210025.RAA04348@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711202218.PAA11561@mt.sri.com> <199711210025.RAA04348@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It's got to be in one place so that all > > of the different distribution mechanisms get the same information if > > they grab the same file (CTM/CVS/CVSup). If not in one place, then all > > of the distribution mechanism must generate the *EXACT* same information > > given the *EXACT* same information, and given that the propogation > > delays of the sources throughout the world, then simple timestamps won't > > work. > > > > So, how do you do it? > > It would have to be a custom hack to CVS, letting it generate newvers.sh > on the fly at each commit. Then "simple timestamps" =would= work. That's what Richard's changes were doing. They also dealt with the issue of the files growing w/out bounds, and multiple branches, but they *didn't* deal with new branches appearing, which was the only sticking point I had with his solution. It's not as simple as it first appears to do right. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:32:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24362 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:32:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24357 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:32:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22111; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:32:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA12161; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:32:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:32:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199711210032.RAA12161@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711210028.RAA04371@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> <199711210028.RAA04371@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means > > > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing > > > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. > > > > This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. > > No, think a bit larger. Make newvers.sh have a keyword (like %%date%%) > that a sed script could use to replace the "counter" as a part of a > commit. Only do the RCS/CVS drill on newvers.sh if something =other > than= the date string changes. And where does this counter number come from? We're back at the same place we started. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:33:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24436 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24429 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:33:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id RAA04371; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:28:52 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711210028.RAA04371@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:28:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, chad@dcfinc.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 04:21:17 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means > > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing > > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. > > This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. No, think a bit larger. Make newvers.sh have a keyword (like %%date%%) that a sed script could use to replace the "counter" as a part of a commit. Only do the RCS/CVS drill on newvers.sh if something =other than= the date string changes. > Nate -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:37:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24695 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24676 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:37:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id RAA04407; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:35:23 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711210035.RAA04407@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:35:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711210029.RAA12133@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 05:29:43 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> > So, how do you do it? >> >> It would have to be a custom hack to CVS, letting it generate newvers.sh >> on the fly at each commit. Then "simple timestamps" =would= work. > > That's what Richard's changes were doing. They also dealt with the > issue of the files growing w/out bounds, and multiple branches, but they > *didn't* deal with new branches appearing, which was the only sticking > point I had with his solution. But there are (can be) seperate copies of newvers.sh in each branch? Seems it would be an administrative procedure to touch it correctly as part of creating a new branch. How often does that happen? Couple of times a year? > It's not as simple as it first appears to do right. If it were, they wouldn't pay us the big bucks. :-) > Nate -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:38:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA24791 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:38:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24766 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:38:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id RAA04422; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:36:28 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711210036.RAA04422@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:36:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711210032.RAA12161@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 05:32:20 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > No, think a bit larger. Make newvers.sh have a keyword (like %%date%%) > > that a sed script could use to replace the "counter" as a part of a > > commit. Only do the RCS/CVS drill on newvers.sh if something =other > > than= the date string changes. > > And where does this counter number come from? We're back at the same > place we started. Date/time at the moment of the commit. Format it how you like. > Nate -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:40:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA25037 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:40:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25027 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:40:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22166; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:40:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA12221; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:40:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:40:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199711210040.RAA12221@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711210035.RAA04407@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711210029.RAA12133@mt.sri.com> <199711210035.RAA04407@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> It would have to be a custom hack to CVS, letting it generate newvers.sh > >> on the fly at each commit. Then "simple timestamps" =would= work. > > > > That's what Richard's changes were doing. They also dealt with the > > issue of the files growing w/out bounds, and multiple branches, but they > > *didn't* deal with new branches appearing, which was the only sticking > > point I had with his solution. > > But there are (can be) seperate copies of newvers.sh in each branch? > Seems it would be an administrative procedure to touch it correctly as > part of creating a new branch. How often does that happen? Couple of > times a year? More than that, but as I stated before, file corruption even *once* isn't acceptable. The number of problems that will occur when a branch occurs (and everyone and his dog decides to finally download things) means that the # of questions due to bogus files is now bigger than the number of questions solved by implementing the solution. All it takes is some time to fix the 'added' branch problems, but Richard is too busy whining to go find a solution. ;( Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:48:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA25637 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:48:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25626 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:48:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id RAA04475; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:46:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711210046.RAA04475@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:46:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711210040.RAA12221@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 05:40:18 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > But there are (can be) seperate copies of newvers.sh in each branch? > > Seems it would be an administrative procedure to touch it correctly as > > part of creating a new branch. How often does that happen? Couple of > > times a year? > > More than that, but as I stated before, file corruption even *once* > isn't acceptable. The number of problems that will occur when a branch > occurs (and everyone and his dog decides to finally download things) > means that the # of questions due to bogus files is now bigger than the > number of questions solved by implementing the solution. I'm obviously ignorant of the discussions you had with Richard. Can you explain the "file corruption" you imagine? -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 16:52:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26015 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:52:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA25945 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:51:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA16474; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 04:26:33 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199711200426.EAA16474@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: Brian Somers , Annelise Anderson , Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:46:12 MST." <199711200146.SAA08213@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 04:26:32 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The only way to get a reasonably useful date here would be to have an > > automatic cvs posting on freefall every day to (say) sys/codedate.h: > > Yep, you've got it. However, this fails for people who get stuff via > CVSup, which gets files directly out of the repository, and this file > doesn't live in the Repository. But it would live in the repository. We create an original, then put a cron job on freefall that does the "cvs co"/"cvs commit". The ``codedate'' is actually part of the code. > > Nate -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 17:00:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA26637 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:00:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26603 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:00:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22263; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:59:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA12303; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:59:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:59:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199711210059.RAA12303@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711210046.RAA04475@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711210040.RAA12221@mt.sri.com> <199711210046.RAA04475@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chad R. Larson writes: > > > But there are (can be) seperate copies of newvers.sh in each branch? > > > Seems it would be an administrative procedure to touch it correctly as > > > part of creating a new branch. How often does that happen? Couple of > > > times a year? > > > > More than that, but as I stated before, file corruption even *once* > > isn't acceptable. The number of problems that will occur when a branch > > occurs (and everyone and his dog decides to finally download things) > > means that the # of questions due to bogus files is now bigger than the > > number of questions solved by implementing the solution. > > I'm obviously ignorant of the discussions you had with Richard. Can you > explain the "file corruption" you imagine? *sigh* OK, we have a file. It's got a couple branches in it (branched at version 1.6 (BRANCH1) and at 1.30 (BRANCH2)). The current 'HEAD' revision is 1.101. So, in the file we need to have the following: 1.6.1.1 is the first revision on BRANCH1, the next revision is 1.6.1.2, etc.... 1.30.4.1 would be the first revision on BRANCH2 (Don't ask why the '4' is there, since I don't know. :) Each subsequent revision on that branch would have a number 1.30.4.2, 1.30.4.3, etc.... On the HEAD, we're at 1.101. Let's say a new branch is created on the HEAD. At that point, the RCS file would contain the same as above, *PLUS* a new set of branch revisions, say 1.101.6.1: However, the 'auto-RCS file' generator would spam this file and kill it (so the new branch would have no 'tag' file in it), so CVSup would have to know how to 'remove' the valid file, one that it may have sent just 5 minutes ago to the same client (assuming the client connected right at the wrong time.) So, we've got a file that has this new branch in it, and 5 minutes later the file is totally different, thus confusing CVSup and any CVS clients assuming that CVSup/CTM actually end up finally getting the file straightended out. (My client may have thought that the 1.106 branch was valid, and then that branch tag was ripped out from underneath it, causing problems.) Now, the possibility is small, and only within the window of someone going and fixing the 'auto RCS-generator' file, but given the hecticness of releases and the simple fact that 'magic' things never get done, having it done automatically is much more important than requiring someone to go edit a file and make sure things don't get spammed in the process. Especially when it *can* be done automatically. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 17:01:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA26766 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26758 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:01:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22286; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:01:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA12324; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:01:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:01:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199711210101.SAA12324@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brian Somers Cc: Nate Williams , Annelise Anderson , Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711200426.EAA16474@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> References: <199711200146.SAA08213@mt.sri.com> <199711200426.EAA16474@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > The only way to get a reasonably useful date here would be to have an > > > automatic cvs posting on freefall every day to (say) sys/codedate.h: > > > > Yep, you've got it. However, this fails for people who get stuff via > > CVSup, which gets files directly out of the repository, and this file > > doesn't live in the Repository. > > But it would live in the repository. We create an original, then put > a cron job on freefall that does the "cvs co"/"cvs commit". The > ``codedate'' is actually part of the code. *ARGH* Does no-one listen? If we keep 'updating' a file in the CVS repository (be it every commit, or once/day, or whatever), then that file will grow w/out bounds, and eventually kill the jkh-AI program when it fills the disk, and our favorite entity will cease to exist. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 17:37:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29149 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:37:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from awfulhak.demon.co.uk (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29136 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:37:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA26136; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:26:38 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199711210126.BAA26136@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: Mike Smith , chad@dcfinc.com, rkw@dataplex.net, brian@awfulhak.org, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:21:17 MST." <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:26:37 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > Where is this 'counter' stored? It's got to be in one place so that all > > > of the different distribution mechanisms get the same information if > > > they grab the same file (CTM/CVS/CVSup). If not in one place, then all > > > of the distribution mechanism must generate the *EXACT* same information > > > given the *EXACT* same information, and given that the propogation > > > delays of the sources throughout the world, then simple timestamps won't > > > work. > > > > > > So, how do you do it? > > > > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means > > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing > > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. > > This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. Hmm, CVS without the revision history ;-) How about simply creating a cron job that *overrites* the ,v file with a fresh one. cvsup & ctm et al should be happy. If we only do it once a day, it should work. > Nate -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 17:42:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29610 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29601 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:42:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22525; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:42:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA12464; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:42:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:42:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199711210142.SAA12464@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brian Somers Cc: Nate Williams , Mike Smith , chad@dcfinc.com, rkw@dataplex.net, andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711210126.BAA26136@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> References: <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> <199711210126.BAA26136@awfulhak.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Brian Somers writes: I'm bowing out of this conversation. Everything that is being proposed has been proposed and discussed, so if you feel that you can come up with something that will work, feel free. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 18:11:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01832 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:11:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01827 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:11:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA24652; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06587; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:10:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13545; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199711210210.SAA13545@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:10:54 -0800 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams "Re: Version Resolution?" (Nov 20, 6:01pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Nate Williams , Brian Somers Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Annelise Anderson , Richard Wackerbarth , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 20, 6:01pm, Nate Williams wrote: } Subject: Re: Version Resolution? } *ARGH* Does no-one listen? If we keep 'updating' a file in the CVS } repository (be it every commit, or once/day, or whatever), then that } file will grow w/out bounds, and eventually kill the jkh-AI program when } it fills the disk, and our favorite entity will cease to exist. And if you don't do this, how do you get the right token if you export a version from CVS using -r : to get something other than the head of a branch? From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 19:33:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06907 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:33:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from word.smith.net.au (s204m97.whistle.com [207.76.204.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06902 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:33:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00434; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:57:10 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711210327.NAA00434@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: chad@dcfinc.com cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:36:26 PDT." <199711210036.RAA04422@freebie.dcfinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:57:10 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > No, think a bit larger. Make newvers.sh have a keyword (like %%date%%) > > > that a sed script could use to replace the "counter" as a part of a > > > commit. Only do the RCS/CVS drill on newvers.sh if something =other > > > than= the date string changes. > > > > And where does this counter number come from? We're back at the same > > place we started. > > Date/time at the moment of the commit. Format it how you like. Only you don't want it in newvers.sh; it needs to be generated at checkout/update time, and coming up with a mixed "normal/special" object would be a great deal harder than just a "special" object. Nate's right, it's not easy. I've just given myself a headache looking at the CVS sources. 8) mike From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 19:41:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07385 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:41:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from word.smith.net.au (s204m97.whistle.com [207.76.204.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07380 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:41:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00759; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:05:05 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199711202335.KAA00759@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Nate Williams cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:21:17 PDT." <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:05:04 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means > > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing > > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. > > This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. Er, I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that it *doesn't* increase without bounds. The number is a transaction identifier; it would ideally be inserted into the RCS files along with the other transaction details. It would be exported as a product of the checkin, not checked in itself. This would have the added (but perhaps dubious) advantage of making commits serialised. If there is a timestamp already associated with every commit, then this timestamp would be more than adequate, as long as it could be considered atomic. ie. no commits relating to a later timestamp could appear in the tree before all commits for an earlier timestamp were complete. This would involve locking some global object, effectively seralising write access to the repository. You wouldn't actually have to store anything in this file (thinking about it). Yes, you would have to hack CVS not immodestly in order to implement this; in particular regenerating the object as part of a checkout operation would involve tracking the most recent timestamp of any commit valid for the checked out file(s). Given that you may only be traversing a portion of the repository, it would have to be borne in mind that the token only applied to the segment checked out/updated. It is, however, the only practical way that I can see of producing a single token which uniquely identifies the state of the tree at a given point in time and can be used to regenerate that state. Do you want to talk about this more? I know you have CVS blood under your fingernails; it's definitely a value-add feature 8). mike From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 21:29:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14389 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:29:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14383 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:29:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA23874; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:29:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA13140; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:29:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:29:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199711210529.WAA13140@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711202335.KAA00759@word.smith.net.au> References: <199711202321.QAA11798@mt.sri.com> <199711202335.KAA00759@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > It has to be done by CVS; each commit increments a counter. This means > > > that simultaneous commits become impossible, as the object containing > > > the counter has to be locked as part of the commit. > > > > This file then increases w/out bounds, which is unacceptable. > > Er, I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that it *doesn't* increase > without bounds. > > The number is a transaction identifier; it would ideally be inserted > into the RCS files along with the other transaction details. It would > be exported as a product of the checkin, not checked in itself. How does that number get increased on a 'regular' basis so that the sources can be more uniquely ID'd? Somehow this ID must be propogated via *ALL* distribution means, which are currently: 1) CVSup of the CVS bits, and subsequent checkout 2) CVSup of the actual bits, which are dumped in /usr/src 3) CTM of the CVS bits, and subsequent checkout 4) CTM of the actual bits dumped into /usr/src 5) Remote CVS (less of an issue) 6) SUP (does this still exist anymore) 7) SNAPS on releng22.freebsd.org/current.freebsd.org 8) CD-ROMS (though less of an issue since they are fairly static. :) > If there is a timestamp already associated with > every commit, then this timestamp would be more than adequate, as long > as it could be considered atomic. Where is this timestamp stored, so that if I build a kernel from sources that take a long time to propoate (3 days) and you build a kernel that you got from those sources the same day it the timestamp was generated that we end up with the same 'timestamp'. > ie. no commits relating to a later > timestamp could appear in the tree before all commits for an earlier > timestamp were complete. This would involve locking some global object, > effectively seralising write access to the repository. You wouldn't > actually have to store anything in this file (thinking about it). You'd have to know what the timestamp was, and this 'timestamp' would have to be updated in a common file, unless you wanted to parse *every* file in the /sys directory to determine the time-stamp, which is unacceptably obnoxious. > Yes, you would have to hack CVS not immodestly in order to implement > this; in particular regenerating the object as part of a checkout > operation would involve tracking the most recent timestamp of any > commit valid for the checked out file(s). Given that you may only be > traversing a portion of the repository, it would have to be borne in > mind that the token only applied to the segment checked out/updated. > > It is, however, the only practical way that I can see of producing a > single token which uniquely identifies the state of the tree at a given > point in time and can be used to regenerate that state. If I understand you correctly, it's much too expensive to generate a continually increasing 'timestamp' just to build kernels, and it also blows away the effect of someone's local changes making the entire tree 'tainted', which is not necessarily the case. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Nov 20 21:44:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA15195 for stable-outgoing; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:44:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA15190 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:44:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id WAA05046; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:43:29 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711210543.WAA05046@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:43:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711210327.NAA00434@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Nov 21, 97 01:57:10 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Only you don't want it in newvers.sh; it needs to be generated at > checkout/update time... No, you want it generated at the time of the commit as it uniquely identifies the state of the repository. Identifying the fetch doesn't accomplish what we're talking about, which is to be able to say, "I'm running 2.2.5-STABLE-9711201835 and the screen colors are all wrong." It's meant to be useful to the folks doing support. I proposed it after a very lenghty exchange on this list wherein someone reported an alleged bug, and then about 5 messages were exchanged trying to nail down exactly what the complainer had on his system. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 07:07:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA13560 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:07:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA13547 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:07:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14548; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:06:32 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711210210.SAA13545@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> References: Nate Williams "Re: Version Resolution?" (Nov 20, 6:01pm) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:05:51 -0600 To: Don Lewis From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Nate Williams , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 8:10 PM -0600 11/20/97, Don Lewis wrote: >And if you don't do this, how do you get the right token if you export >a version from CVS using -r : to get something other >than the head of a branch? You don't. The purpose of this hack is to distinguish between two different source trees which are extracted using exactly the same (head of a branch) tag, but at different times. We should also be using a CVS/RCS macro to tell us what tag we used for the extraction. This information should also get included in the system identification. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 07:34:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA15180 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:34:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15134 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:34:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id IAA05903; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:32:04 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711211532.IAA05903@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:32:02 -0700 (MST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, nate@mt.sri.com, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199711210529.WAA13140@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 10:29:17 pm" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > The number is a transaction identifier; it would ideally be inserted > > into the RCS files along with the other transaction details. It would > > be exported as a product of the checkin, not checked in itself. > > How does that number get increased on a 'regular' basis so that the > sources can be more uniquely ID'd? I don't think you're listening. The ID gets changed as part of a *commit*. Each change state of a given tree is uniquely identified. > Somehow this ID must be propogated > via *ALL* distribution means, which are currently: The ID is kept in a source module (most seem to be voting for newvers.sh). CVS changes that module during a commit, but doesn't RCS the change (to avoid the file growing without bounds--history of all these timestamps is meaningless). Any change to newvers.sh other than the timestamp would still be RCSd. If all the current distribution means actually get all changed files to the end user, you're covered. If they don't, we've got bigger problems to worry about. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 08:09:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17633 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:09:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17626 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:09:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA14982; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:08:54 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711210543.WAA05046@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711210327.NAA00434@word.smith.net.au> from Mike Smith at "Nov 21, 97 01:57:10 pm" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:04:31 -0600 To: chad@dcfinc.com From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 11:43 PM -0600 11/20/97, Chad R. Larson wrote: >No, you want it generated at the time of the commit as it uniquely >identifies the state of the repository. Identifying the fetch doesn't >accomplish what we're talking about, which is to be able to say, "I'm >running 2.2.5-STABLE-9711201835 and the screen colors are all wrong." > >It's meant to be useful to the folks doing support. As many of us have discussed, "2.2.5-971120" is probably quite adequate for the purpose. If something affecting "screen colours" was entered around that time or if a fix had been committed after that point, you would, at least, have a good point to start the investigation. Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 08:31:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19109 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:31:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19100 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:31:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27555; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:31:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA14205; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:31:30 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:31:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199711211631.JAA14205@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711211532.IAA05903@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711210529.WAA13140@mt.sri.com> <199711211532.IAA05903@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Somehow this ID must be propogated > > via *ALL* distribution means, which are currently: > > The ID is kept in a source module (most seem to be voting for > newvers.sh). CVS changes that module during a commit, but doesn't RCS > the change (to avoid the file growing without bounds--history of all > these timestamps is meaningless). Any change to newvers.sh other than > the timestamp would still be RCSd. How does it get stored in my version of newvers.sh up here in Montana since I never modified it, or do any commits? When I do a 'cvs update' of my sources, newvers.sh won't get updated since there haven't been any RCS modifications to it. Remember, I get the actual sources bits via CVS. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 08:40:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19795 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:40:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19781 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:40:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA15164; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:40:18 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711211532.IAA05903@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711210529.WAA13140@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 20, 97 10:29:17 pm" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:39:11 -0600 To: chad@dcfinc.com From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 9:32 AM -0600 11/21/97, Chad R. Larson wrote: >I don't think you're listening. The ID gets changed as part of a *commit*. >Each change state of a given tree is uniquely identified. There are still "race" conditions that we cannot solve by any means that does not serialize the update/snapshot process. Since we cannot get an absolutely accurate stamp, I think that an "approximate" stamp done by a cron job is both adequate and simpler. >The ID is kept in a source module (most seem to be voting for >newvers.sh). CVS changes that module during a commit, but doesn't RCS >the change (to avoid the file growing without bounds--history of all >these timestamps is meaningless). Any change to newvers.sh other than >the timestamp would still be RCSd. Fundamental Rule of Modular Programming: It is not a good idea to have two mechanisms altering the same file. It is much better to have "newvers.sh" (or anyone else who cares) include a file which contains the timestamp information. [Been there, done that...] Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 08:56:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA21057 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21046 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:55:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA06358 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:55:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:55:56 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: perl5 in ports fails to compile... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This is getting frustrating :( I have a 2.2.5-STABLE system built, and have re-cvsup'd the perl5 port, but it fails everytime I try to compile it with the error included below. If I go into config.h and uncomment the HAS_VSPRINTF line, it gets past this, and then gets slammed with a problem that then requires me to go in and uncomment the HAS_FORK line...then it gets past this, and... Am I missing something somewhere? I've never had this much trouble with getting perl compiled on any of my Solaris systems, or in the past with my FreeBSD ones... :( Thanks... `sh cflags libperl.a util.o` util.c CCCMD = cc -DPERL_CORE -c -I/usr/local/include -O util.c: In function `vsprintf': util.c:1572: structure has no member named `_ptr' util.c:1573: structure has no member named `_cnt' util.c:1577: structure has no member named `_flag' util.c:1577: `_IOWRT' undeclared (first use this function) util.c:1577: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once util.c:1577: for each function it appears in.) From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 09:18:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23015 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:18:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [209.47.148.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA22998 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:18:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by hub.org (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA15413 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:18:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:18:14 -0500 (EST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: make world fails? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I've got to be missing *something* here, but make world is failing right at the onset, just after it recompiled 'make'. The following is with a 'make -DNOOBJDIR world', and I've gone into /usr/src/share/mk and installed that *just in case*...what else am I missing? *raised eyebrow*: -------------------------------------------------------------- Making hierarchy -------------------------------------------------------------- cd /usr/local/src && PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/sbin:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/bin:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/X11/bin:/usr/local/jdk/bin:/home/staff/scrapp y/bin:/home/staff/scrappy/pgsql/bin:/home/staff/scrappy/pgsql/bin BISON_SIMPLE=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/share/misc/bison.simple COMPILER_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/libexec:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/bin GCC_EXEC_PREFIX=/usr/obj/usr/lo cal/src/tmp/usr/lib/ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/lib LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/lib:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/lib NOEXTRADEPEND=t /usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/bin//usr/bin/make DESTDIR=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tm p hierarchy /usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/bin//usr/bin/make: not found *** Error code 2 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. # From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 09:33:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24350 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:33:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24343 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA27808; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:08:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA14359; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:08:26 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:08:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199711211708.KAA14359@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith), freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711210543.WAA05046@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711210327.NAA00434@word.smith.net.au> <199711210543.WAA05046@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Only you don't want it in newvers.sh; it needs to be generated at > > checkout/update time... > > No, you want it generated at the time of the commit as it uniquely > identifies the state of the repository. Identifying the fetch doesn't > accomplish what we're talking about, which is to be able to say, "I'm > running 2.2.5-STABLE-9711201835 and the screen colors are all wrong." But you can't generate it a commit time since remote CVS users don't do any commits, so they only have a essentially read-only CVS tree as the source of their bits. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 10:26:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28720 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from freebie.dcfinc.com (freebie.dcfinc.com [138.113.2.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28712 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:26:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freebie.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freebie.dcfinc.com (8.8.3/8.8.3a) id LAA06216; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:22:38 -0700 (MST) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199711211822.LAA06216@freebie.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:22:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: chad@dcfinc.com, nate@mt.sri.com, mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199711211631.JAA14205@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 21, 97 09:31:30 am" Reply-to: chad@dcfinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> The ID is kept in a source module (most seem to be voting for >> newvers.sh). CVS changes that module during a commit, but doesn't RCS >> the change (to avoid the file growing without bounds--history of all >> these timestamps is meaningless). Any change to newvers.sh other than >> the timestamp would still be RCSd. > > How does it get stored in my version of newvers.sh up here in Montana > since I never modified it, or do any commits? > > When I do a 'cvs update' of my sources, newvers.sh won't get updated > since there haven't been any RCS modifications to it. > > Remember, I get the actual sources bits via CVS. We said that there would be some hacks to CVS. One of them is to always treat newvers.sh (or whatever source contains the counter) as modified. That is, each and every time I CVSup, I'd expect to get newvers.sh. I don't particularly mind if it hasn't actually changed in between fetches. It's small (about 2kbytes of UCB copyright, 500 bytes of data). Mind you, I can imagine several different ways to attack this. But this one seems pretty straight forward. > Nate -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL22) Brother, can you paradigm? 602-953-1392 chad@dcfinc.com chad@anasazi.com crl22@aol.com DCF, Inc. - 14523 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254 From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 11:01:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02001 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:01:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01986 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:01:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA28561; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:01:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA14829; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:01:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:01:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199711211901.MAA14829@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: chad@dcfinc.com Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), mike@smith.net.au, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711211822.LAA06216@freebie.dcfinc.com> References: <199711211631.JAA14205@mt.sri.com> <199711211822.LAA06216@freebie.dcfinc.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> The ID is kept in a source module (most seem to be voting for > >> newvers.sh). CVS changes that module during a commit, but doesn't RCS > >> the change (to avoid the file growing without bounds--history of all > >> these timestamps is meaningless). Any change to newvers.sh other than > >> the timestamp would still be RCSd. > > > > How does it get stored in my version of newvers.sh up here in Montana > > since I never modified it, or do any commits? > > > > When I do a 'cvs update' of my sources, newvers.sh won't get updated > > since there haven't been any RCS modifications to it. > > > > Remember, I get the actual sources bits via CVS. > > We said that there would be some hacks to CVS. One of them is to always > treat newvers.sh (or whatever source contains the counter) as modified. Having special files that live in the middle of non-special files is a bad design that cannot be maintained easily. Otherwise known as a hack and a kludge. Hacks and kludges are not acceptable when other solutions are available/doable that aren't hacks and kludges, and I *KNOW* that other solutions exist that aren't hacks/kludges. Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 13:27:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14020 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:27:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from mail.san.rr.com (san.rr.com [204.210.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13996 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:26:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dt050n3f.san.rr.com (dt050n3f.san.rr.com [204.210.31.63]) by mail.san.rr.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07963 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:26:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711212126.NAA07963@mail.san.rr.com> From: "Studded" To: "FreeBSD Stable List" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 13:26:09 -0800 Reply-To: "Studded" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I am certainly no expert on cvs, but I have an idea that I think is worth consideration. It solves several of the problems that have been discussed here. The basic idea is that CVS would maintain a database of the current state of the tree for a given tag. It would essentially be a list of the current revision number of each file that is part of that distribution. If someone checks out a file to do a commit, that file's state is updated in the database (or perhaps in a seperate file?). At the exact moment that someone does a commit, the current state of the database is marked. I would suggest using the last 8 digits of unix/ctime as the stamp. That gives you a time period of 16wks 3days 17hrs 46mins 40secs before the thing recycles. This is only 2 more digits than the date-based method we're using now, and you can always add an 8 to the front to get the exact time if you're curious. Of course, you could use all 9 digits if you want, I'm just trying to keep things short and sweet. :) The things I would want to know about before implementing something like this are how often are commits made to -Stable, and how often is more than one file open. If there aren't very many commits in a given day, this system may be overkill. A cron job that runs say, twice as often per day as the average number of commits which modifies newvers.sh with the date plus a number may be all you need. Something like 971121.1, etc. I think that the database idea has value in any case, even if it's more than we need for -Stable. You could make a cvs inquiry as to the exact state of the tree for any time period. Of course, all this comes with the unfortunate caveat that I can't code a line of this. I am interested in seeing it happen though, so I thought I'd make the suggestion in case someone who can code it is interested. :) Hope this helps, Doug *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 4,168 clients and still growing. :-) *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) *** Part of the DALnet IRC network *** From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 15:08:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22724 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:08:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22714 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:08:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id PAA06275; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA25936; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA15838; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:07:23 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199711212307.PAA15838@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:07:23 -0800 In-Reply-To: Richard Wackerbarth "Re: Version Resolution?" (Nov 21, 9:05am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Richard Wackerbarth , Don Lewis Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Nate Williams , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 21, 9:05am, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: } Subject: Re: Version Resolution? } At 8:10 PM -0600 11/20/97, Don Lewis wrote: } } >And if you don't do this, how do you get the right token if you export } >a version from CVS using -r : to get something other } >than the head of a branch? } } You don't. The purpose of this hack is to distinguish between two } different source trees which are extracted using exactly the same } (head of a branch) tag, but at different times. } } We should also be using a CVS/RCS macro to tell us what tag we used for } the extraction. This information should also get included in the system } identification. Couldn't this solve the original problem as well? If you are extracting at the head of a branch, we've already got the branch tag info, so we just need to set the date macro to the time of the extraction. From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 15:10:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22870 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:10:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22864 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:10:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA00376; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:10:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA16353; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:10:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:10:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199711212310.QAA16353@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Don Lewis Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , Nate Williams , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711212307.PAA15838@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> References: <199711212307.PAA15838@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > } >And if you don't do this, how do you get the right token if you export > } >a version from CVS using -r : to get something other > } >than the head of a branch? > } > } You don't. The purpose of this hack is to distinguish between two > } different source trees which are extracted using exactly the same > } (head of a branch) tag, but at different times. > } > } We should also be using a CVS/RCS macro to tell us what tag we used for > } the extraction. This information should also get included in the system > } identification. > > Couldn't this solve the original problem as well? If you are extracting > at the head of a branch, we've already got the branch tag info, so we > just need to set the date macro to the time of the extraction. What about the folks that don't use CVS to get the bits? The CVS macro doesn't exist for them. ;( Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 16:13:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26703 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:13:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from shrimp.dataplex.net (shrimp.dataplex.net [208.2.87.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26698 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:13:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rkw@dataplex.net) Received: from [208.2.87.4] (user4.dataplex.net [208.2.87.4]) by shrimp.dataplex.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24441; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:13:11 -0600 (CST) X-Sender: rkw@mail.dataplex.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711212310.QAA16353@mt.sri.com> References: <199711212307.PAA15838@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> <199711212307.PAA15838@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:04:34 -0600 To: Don Lewis From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Nate Williams , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 5:10 PM -0600 11/21/97, Nate Williams replied to Don Lewis >> } >And if you don't do this, how do you get the right token if you export >> } >a version from CVS using -r : to get something other >> } >than the head of a branch? >> } >> } You don't. The purpose of this hack is to distinguish between two >> } different source trees which are extracted using exactly the same >> } (head of a branch) tag, but at different times. >> } >> } We should also be using a CVS/RCS macro to tell us what tag we used for >> } the extraction. This information should also get included in the system >> } identification. >> >> Couldn't this solve the original problem as well? If you are extracting >> at the head of a branch, we've already got the branch tag info, so we >> just need to set the date macro to the time of the extraction. No! The time of cvs extraction is not what matters at all. >What about the folks that don't use CVS to get the bits? The CVS macro >doesn't exist for them. ;( That doesn't matter. The people who don't get their bits from a CVS tree get them from SOMETHING that got them from a CVS tree. The appropriate stamp would be extracted at that time. However, this ignores the real problem which is that you don't care when the stuff is EXTRACTED. You care when it was last updated. By analogy -- "Why is this milk sour? I just opened the bottle 5 minutes ago." "Could it have anything to do with this September date on the bottle?" Richard Wackerbarth From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 16:22:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27198 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:22:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27187 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:22:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00917; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:22:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA16923; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:22:42 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:22:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199711220022.RAA16923@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Richard Wackerbarth Cc: Don Lewis , Nate Williams , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: References: <199711212307.PAA15838@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> <199711212310.QAA16353@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >> } >And if you don't do this, how do you get the right token if you export > >> } >a version from CVS using -r : to get something other > >> } >than the head of a branch? > >> } > >> } You don't. The purpose of this hack is to distinguish between two > >> } different source trees which are extracted using exactly the same > >> } (head of a branch) tag, but at different times. > >> } > >> } We should also be using a CVS/RCS macro to tell us what tag we used for > >> } the extraction. This information should also get included in the system > >> } identification. > >> > >> Couldn't this solve the original problem as well? If you are extracting > >> at the head of a branch, we've already got the branch tag info, so we > >> just need to set the date macro to the time of the extraction. > > No! The time of cvs extraction is not what matters at all. Right, but the state of the CVS tree at the time of extraction does matter. So, if CVS generates the information based on the source information and not the time of day we have a solution. (Except for the non-CVS bit). > >What about the folks that don't use CVS to get the bits? The CVS macro > >doesn't exist for them. ;( > > That doesn't matter. The people who don't get their bits from a CVS tree > get them from SOMETHING that got them from a CVS tree. Except in the case of CVSup, which wouldn't (shouldn't) know how to generate this RCS/CVS macro to modify files and essentially 're-create' the same information that CVS does. :( > However, this ignores the real problem which is that you don't care when the > stuff is EXTRACTED. You care when it was last updated. > > By analogy -- > > "Why is this milk sour? I just opened the bottle 5 minutes ago." > > "Could it have anything to do with this September date on the bottle?" Aka, could it have something to do with the contents of the bottle, not when you opened it up? Just because you left it out overnight doesn't mean it's fresh. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 17:08:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00269 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:08:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00262 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:08:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA07601; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27784; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16164; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:08:07 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199711220108.RAA16164@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:08:07 -0800 In-Reply-To: Richard Wackerbarth "Re: Version Resolution?" (Nov 21, 6:04pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Richard Wackerbarth , Don Lewis Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Nate Williams , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 21, 6:04pm, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: } Subject: Re: Version Resolution? } >> } You don't. The purpose of this hack is to distinguish between two } >> } different source trees which are extracted using exactly the same } >> } (head of a branch) tag, but at different times. } >> } } >> } We should also be using a CVS/RCS macro to tell us what tag we used for } >> } the extraction. This information should also get included in the system } >> } identification. } >> } >> Couldn't this solve the original problem as well? If you are extracting } >> at the head of a branch, we've already got the branch tag info, so we } >> just need to set the date macro to the time of the extraction. } } No! The time of cvs extraction is not what matters at all. What about the most recent timestamp in the history file for that branch? If you use "-r :", the most recent timestamp in the history file that is older than "" should be used. This assumes that folks who use cloned copies of the CVS tree possess copies of the history file from the master CVS tree. From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 17:23:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01707 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:23:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01697 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:23:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA01299; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:23:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA17140; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:23:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:23:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199711220123.SAA17140@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Don Lewis Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , Nate Williams , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711220108.RAA16164@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> References: <199711220108.RAA16164@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What about the most recent timestamp in the history file for that > branch? What history file? CVSup doesn't know about history files, and the CVS repository that FreeBSD uses doesn't contain one. > If you use "-r :", the most recent timestamp in the > history file that is older than "" should be used. Huh? "-r : Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03791 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (root@gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03784 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:57:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA07854; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28514; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA16344; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:57:22 -0800 (PST) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199711220157.RAA16344@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:57:22 -0800 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams "Re: Version Resolution?" (Nov 21, 6:23pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Nate Williams , Don Lewis Subject: Re: Version Resolution? Cc: Richard Wackerbarth , Brian Somers , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Nov 21, 6:23pm, Nate Williams wrote: } Subject: Re: Version Resolution? } > What about the most recent timestamp in the history file for that } > branch? } } What history file? CVSup doesn't know about history files, and the CVS } repository that FreeBSD uses doesn't contain one. Hmn. If were always extracting the entire tree, then you could use the most recent timestamp in any of the files that you extract. } > If you use "-r :", the most recent timestamp in the } > history file that is older than "" should be used. } } Huh? "-r ::" and "-D :", the latter of which wouldn't be usable with export. I also saw mention that this only works with the vendor and main branches, which would considerably reduce it's utility. From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 19:01:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06966 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:01:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [207.149.232.50] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06961 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:01:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id TAA02400; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199711220301.TAA02400@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711192205.PAA06912@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Nov 19, 97 03:05:28 pm" To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:01:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: andrsn@andrsn.stanford.edu, nate@mt.sri.com, rkw@dataplex.net, freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > [ Versioning the development kernels ] > > > > I thought Rodney Grimes offered some code as well? > > I don't even know if Rod is still alive, since he's been really quiet. > In any case, I didn't see any Rod code. I am alive, just been too too too busy to even read the mail, let alone respond. I just dumped 5000 messages into the bit bucket and am dealing with the last 500 in my box now. I did not supply any code, and it looks as if someone alread made it say ``2.2.5-STABLE'' which is all I cared about so that I could tell if it was pre or post 2.2.5. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation, Inc. Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-stable Fri Nov 21 21:12:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12849 for stable-outgoing; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:12:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from bob.tri-lakes.net ([207.3.81.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12844 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:12:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@tri-lakes.net) Received: from [207.3.81.148] by bob.tri-lakes.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id oa350234 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:13:35 -0600 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:09:02 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: The Hermit Hacker Subject: RE: make world fails? Cc: stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 21-Nov-97 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > >I've got to be missing *something* here, but make world is failing right >at the onset, just after it recompiled 'make'. The following is with a >'make -DNOOBJDIR world', and I've gone into /usr/src/share/mk and >installed >that *just in case*...what else am I missing? *raised eyebrow*: > >-------------------------------------------------------------- > Making hierarchy >-------------------------------------------------------------- >cd /usr/local/src && >PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/sbin:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/sbin:/ >usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/bin:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/bin:/usr/loca >l/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/usr/X11/bin:/usr/local/jdk/bin:/home/ >staff/scrapp >y/bin:/home/staff/scrappy/pgsql/bin:/home/staff/scrappy/pgsql/bin >BISON_SIMPLE=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/share/misc/bison.simple >COMPILER_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/libexec:/usr/obj/usr/local/sr >c/tmp/usr/bin GCC_EXEC_PREFIX=/usr/obj/usr/lo >cal/src/tmp/usr/lib/ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/lib >LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/lib:/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp >/usr/lib NOEXTRADEPEND=t /usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/bin//usr/bin/make >DESTDIR=/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tm >p hierarchy >/usr/obj/usr/local/src/tmp/usr/bin//usr/bin/make: not found >*** Error code 2 > >Stop. >*** Error code 1 > >Stop. ># You stumbled onto the same thing I did, and I don't know if this is intentional on the part of the developers or not. You didn't say wether you did or not, but I have a hunch you called make with its fully qualified name, /usr/bin/make. World falls flat on its face if you do so. You must simply do a plain 'make world andotheroptions'. (What ever happened to always calling all your executables with fully qualified paths for security's sake?) :-) --- Chris Dillon --- cdillon@tri-lakes.net --- Powered by FreeBSD, the best operating system on the planet. ---- (http://www.freebsd.org) From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 22 09:38:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16197 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:38:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from messiah.cableinet.net (messiah.cableinet.net [194.117.157.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16192 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:38:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mark.wild@cableinet.co.uk) Received: (qmail 15142 invoked from network); 22 Nov 1997 18:41:15 -0000 Received: from lions.cableinet.net (193.38.113.5) by messiah with SMTP; 22 Nov 1997 18:41:15 -0000 Received: from zebedee.local (usr27-gat.cableinet.co.uk [194.117.153.37]) by lions.cableinet.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI) via ESMTP id RAA24195 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:37:05 GMT Received: from dougal (dougal.local [10.0.128.68]) by zebedee.local (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA21847 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:52:14 GMT Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:23:50 +0000 From: Mark To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: IPX router problems Message-ID: X-Mailer: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm having difficulty setting up an IPX router for Netware using 2.2.5. I've compiled the kernel with IPX added, ifconfiged each interface a network address, enabled IPX packet forwarding and run IPXrouted. My setup is: W95 W95 <-- can't see anything through router | | ------------------- ed1 FreeBSD machine ed0 | |--Server | |--Win machines The problem I've got is that the Win95 machines can't see any Netware shares. Any suggestions as to what's wrong? Thanks for any help, Mark. -- -- BlunderWorks --> Guaranteed to balls it up *every time* From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 22 11:00:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19456 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:00:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19449 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08153; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:59:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA18715; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:59:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:59:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199711221859.LAA18715@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Don Lewis Cc: Nate Williams , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Version Resolution? In-Reply-To: <199711220157.RAA16344@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> References: <199711220157.RAA16344@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > } > If you use "-r :", the most recent timestamp in the > } > history file that is older than "" should be used. > } > } Huh? "-r : } in any case... > > In my somewhat dated copy of the CVS FAQ I've seen this referred to as > both "-r :" and "-D :", the latter of which > wouldn't be usable with export. This 'never worked', and is why the CVS maintainers no longer distribute the FAQ.:( Nate From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 22 14:49:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01479 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:49:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from dragon.awen.com (dragon.awen.com [207.33.155.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01460 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:48:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mburgett@dragon.awen.com) Received: (from mburgett@localhost) by dragon.awen.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA00338; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 14:48:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711222248.OAA00338@dragon.awen.com> From: "Mike Burgett" To: "stable@freebsd.org" Date: Sat, 22 Nov 97 14:48:58 -0800 Reply-To: "Mike Burgett" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: nfs and mounting more than once... Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The below patch is intended to prevent being able to remount nfs partitions over and over (and having to umount them over and over to really get rid of them...) It was against the 2.2-stable version of nfs_vfsops.c currently in the tree: -rw-r--r-- 1 root bin 27284 Oct 17 05:16 /usr/src/sys/nfs/nfs_vfsops.c If anyone is feeling adventurous, I'd like to get feedback about any unintended side effects. I run a simple system here, with no union mounts, diskless clients or any other stuff that this could break. :) Thanks, Mike ---- cut here ---- *** /usr/src/sys/nfs/nfs_vfsops.c Fri Oct 17 05:16:43 1997 --- ./nfs_vfsops.c Sat Nov 22 14:29:58 1997 *************** *** 574,579 **** --- 574,580 ---- char pth[MNAMELEN], hst[MNAMELEN]; u_int len; u_char nfh[NFSX_V3FHMAX]; + int ncount; error = copyin(data, (caddr_t)&args, sizeof (struct nfs_args)); if (error) *************** *** 589,594 **** --- 590,601 ---- if (error) return (error); bzero(&hst[len], MNAMELEN - len); + /* checks stolen from ffs_vfsops.c to prevent duplicate mounts */ + ncount = vcount(ndp->ni_vp); + if (ndp->ni_vp->v_object != NULL) + ncount -= 1; + if (ncount > 1 && ndp->ni_vp != rootvp) + return (EBUSY); /* sockargs() call must be after above copyin() calls */ error = sockargs(&nam, (caddr_t)args.addr, args.addrlen, MT_SONAME); if (error) --- cut here ---- From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 22 15:31:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03648 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:31:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from tidal.wave.net (root@wave.net [198.68.31.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03643 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:31:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bduk@bduk.dukpad.com) Received: from bduk.dukpad.com (ppp77.bruisebrothers.com [198.68.31.77]) by tidal.wave.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA13829 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bduk@localhost) by bduk.dukpad.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09213 for freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:24:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:24:47 -0800 (PST) From: Derrick Baumer Message-Id: <199711222324.PAA09213@bduk.dukpad.com> To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: make world shows warnings/errors? Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I was told this was the place to write. If I was misinformed, please tell me where to write with this question: I am building FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE vial "make world". I began with a base of FreeBSD 2.2.5-PREREL. I downloaded the src-2.2.0500xEmpty.gz thru 0510 deltas, putting them all in a temp directory. I went to /usr and typed "rm -r src" to get rid of the old source code. I typed "ctm -v -v //src*.gz" and it extracted everything. Then I typed "make world". Question 1: It's been running for 18 hours. I have an IBM BlueLightning 486-75 with 16 megs of RAM and 32 megs of swap-space. The make is really the only user process running. I'm using another computer for everything until it gets done. Roughly how long can I expect this to take? (ballpark?) Question 2: It keeps popping up warnings/errors. Things like "nm: no name list" "strtoq.c 108: integer overflow in expression". I've looked at a few of the files that the messages indicate - I'm a Perl programmer. I don't know C that well and I can't honestly say I could recognize an error if I saw one unless it was blatant. Are these messages supposed to pop up, or have I somehow botched the process? I've seen such messages cross the screen several times. Question 3: If these messages are supposed to pop up, wouldn't it be nice to have that listed in the docs somewhere? Or have I just overlooked them? I've looked in the handbook and faq and they did nothing to ease my mind. Perhaps a one-liner: During the make world process, several benign error/warning messages will pop up - these can safely be ignored"... ? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 22 15:57:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05186 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:57:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from pop.uniserve.com (pop.uniserve.com [204.244.156.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05178 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:57:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tom@uniserve.com) Received: from shell.uniserve.com [204.244.210.252] by pop.uniserve.com with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xZPQn-0003va-00; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:57:45 -0800 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:57:42 -0800 (PST) From: Tom To: Derrick Baumer cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make world shows warnings/errors? In-Reply-To: <199711222324.PAA09213@bduk.dukpad.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, Derrick Baumer wrote: Could you wrap your e-mail? > Question 1: It's been running for 18 hours. I have an IBM BlueLightning 486-75 with 16 megs of RAM and 32 megs of swap-space. The make is really the only user process running. I'm using another computer for everything until it gets done. Roughly how long can I expect this to take? (ballpark?) The IBM 75, I belive is an 486slc processor running at 3*25mhz. Not a very fast CPU. More RAM would help quite a bit. Your system should finish in less than 24 hours. You could probably shave several hours off that if you have 32MB of RAM. My old 486DX50 (not a DX2) with 20MB RAM, does a make world in about 12-13 hours. And check the turbo button. Old systems like this don't always default to "fast", and require the turbo jumper to be shorted, to be "fast". Happens a lot with systems built from spare parts. Tom From owner-freebsd-stable Sat Nov 22 17:50:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10073 for stable-outgoing; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:50:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable) Received: from uk1.imdb.com (UK1.IMDb.COM [192.68.174.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA10068 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:49:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robh@imdb.com) Received: from robh.imdb.com [194.222.68.23] by uk1.imdb.com with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0xZR65-0001nA-00; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 01:44:30 +0000 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 01:43:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Rob Hartill X-Sender: robh@localhost To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: PII spontaneous reboots Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Can anyone see anything in here that would explain why the machine reboots itself without reason ? 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: Copyright (c) 1992-1997 FreeBSD Inc. 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE #0: Sat Nov 15 04:25:42 CST 1997 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: robh@us10.imdb.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/USp6-256 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: CPU: Pentium Pro (299.15-MHz 686-class CPU) 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x633 Stepping=3 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: Features=0x80fbff,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV> 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: real memory = 268435456 (262144K bytes) 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: avail memory = 257060864 (251036K bytes) 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: chip1 rev 1 on pci0:7:0 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: chip2 rev 0 on pci0:7:1 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: pci0:7:2: Intel Corporation, device=0x7020, class=0x0c, subclass=0x03 int d irq 5 [no driver assigned] 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: de0 rev 33 int a irq 9 on pci0:10 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: de0: 21041 [10Mb/s] pass 2.1 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: de0: address 00:80:c8:64:a9:c9 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: vga0 rev 68 int a irq 11 on pci0:12 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: ahc0 rev 0 int a irq 10 on pci0:13 00:03:17 us10 /kernel: ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: Sending SDTR!! 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "IBM DCHS04U 2929" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 4303MB (8813870 512 byte sectors) 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): with 6077 cyls, 9 heads, and an average 161 sectors/track 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: probe0(ahc0:9:0): scsi_cmd 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: probe0(ahc0:9:0): scsi_done 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: (ahc0:9:0): command: 0,0,0,0,0,0-[0 bytes] 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: probe0(ahc0:9:0): scsi_cmd 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: probe0(ahc0:9:0): scsi_done 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: (ahc0:9:0): command: 12,0,0,0,2c,0-[44 bytes] 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: ------------------------------ 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: 000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: 016: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: 032: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: ------------------------------ 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: Probing for devices on the ISA bus: 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sio0: type 16550A 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: sio1: type 16550A 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: pca0 on motherboard 00:03:18 us10 /kernel: pca0: PC speaker audio driver 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: fdc0: FIFO enabled, 8 bytes threshold 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: npx0 on motherboard 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: npx0: INT 16 interface 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: de0: enabling 10baseT port 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: IP packet filtering initialized, divert disabled, logging limited to 100 packets/entry 00:03:19 us10 /kernel: WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. On two occasions it rebooted during the 2am security check. It's fallen over a few other times too without anything useful being logged. cheers rob -- Rob Hartill Internet Movie Database (Ltd) http://www.moviedatabase.com/ .. a site for sore eyes.