From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 5 03:19:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27243 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:19:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27227 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 03:19:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03939; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:19:33 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980405201929.47041@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:19:29 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: KapuT Cc: George Vagner , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dallas References: <199804050051.SAA24211@epcot.spdc.ti.com> <3526D862.CAACA1EF@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3526D862.CAACA1EF@aei.ca>; from KapuT on Sat, Apr 04, 1998 at 08:03:30PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Apr 04, 1998 at 08:03:30PM -0500, KapuT wrote: > > George Vagner wrote: > > > Is there anyone on this list that is in the Dallas area that runs > > Freebsd? I would like to get in touch with you maybe for some > > idea sharing... > > > > Hehehe, FreeBSD.ORG should create FUG (FreeBSD User Group) like I have > explained in precedent msg... ;-) And who is FreeBSD? :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 5 04:28:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07315 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:28:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07310 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 04:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasonc@concentric.net) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id HAA27277; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:28:56 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from K6-200 (ts003d15.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.75]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id HAA08053; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001401bd6086$348d46c0$4b62adce@K6-200.VOYAGER.NET> From: "Jason" To: Subject: Re: Dallas Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:30:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have just got my copy of The Complete FreeBSD from Walnut Creek complete with the 2.2.5 in 4 CD set. Now I am looking at all this and asking myself "what have I got myself into" I was wondering if there is someone in Michigan that would be willing to help me out with this thing. Maybe just show me how it works before I convert one of my servers over. I used Unix only for a short time while in the Army. I didn't need to do much outside xwindow or the specific apps we used. And I have long forgot all of that by now. So I am just your plain old DOS person who regrets every paying money for windows. I guess I didn't learn my lesson because 8 years later I actually paid for win95 too :) Any help would be appreciated. I trying to setup a small network here. I need something to spoof this mac filtering router I have to deal with and get multiple computers on my single internet connection. I also run http, ftp, pop3 servers....mostly on a experimental basis right now. Thanks Jason Cribbins jasonc@concentric.net or kib@voyager.net http://fts.ml.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 5 05:09:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA12110 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA12104 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA04141; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:08:44 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980405220840.04056@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:08:40 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Jason Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dallas References: <001401bd6086$348d46c0$4b62adce@K6-200.VOYAGER.NET> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <001401bd6086$348d46c0$4b62adce@K6-200.VOYAGER.NET>; from Jason on Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 07:30:14AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Apr 05, 1998 at 07:30:14AM -0400, Jason wrote: > I have just got my copy of The Complete FreeBSD from Walnut Creek complete > with the 2.2.5 in 4 CD set. You can't go far wrong there. > Now I am looking at all this and asking myself "what have I got myself into" :-) I ask myself that every day... then I look at the alternatives and smile. > I was wondering if there is someone in Michigan that would be willing to > help me out with this thing. Maybe just show me how it works before I > convert one of my servers over. > > I used Unix only for a short time while in the Army. I didn't need to do > much outside xwindow or the specific apps we used. And I have long forgot > all of that by now. So I am just your plain old DOS person who regrets > every paying money for windows. I guess I didn't learn my lesson because 8 > years later I actually paid for win95 too :) Ouch! You might like to take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials for a little "revision". The first tutorial is for people new to both unix and FreeBSD and it might give you an idea of what you're in for. A few people here said they liked it. > Any help would be appreciated. I trying to setup a small network here. I > need something to spoof this mac filtering router I have to deal with and > get multiple computers on my single internet connection. I also run http, > ftp, pop3 servers....mostly on a experimental basis right now. So just take it one step at a time and it'll all come together. What are you running now? Since you have the book, why not just work through it? A few of us have done it that way. If you get stuck you can ask here for pointers to further documentation, and if that still doesn't help you can ask about problems on freebsd-questions. Don't forget to pick up the errata for the book (see back of first page), check out the mail archives search facility (http://www.freebsd.org/search.html) and you might like to read http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies for some more ideas about the kind of help that is available already. Other newbies might have other suggestions for you too. Now that you've got us all interested, be sure to come back and keep us up to date on how you're getting on! :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 5 09:34:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07746 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:34:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07534 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:34:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23735; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:22:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980404102207.46613@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:22:07 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: KapuT , FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: QDOS References: <35257736.5EBE7AC0@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <35257736.5EBE7AC0@aei.ca>; from KapuT on Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 06:56:38PM -0500 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 06:56:38PM -0500, KapuT wrote: > Hi, dont know if all people know what I have readed one hour ago, but I > will say to you what I have discovered hihihi :-) > > I have readed at the bookstore in the Complete FreeBSD from Greg Lehey > than DOS was derivated from QDOS Yep. There's very recently been a long discussion about this in the alt.folklore.computers newsgroup. If you're interested in learning a lot more about the history behind it all, going to and searching for ~g alt.folklore.computers ~s "DOS is stolen" (which will, I think, search only in that group for messages with that subject line) you'll get all the info you could possibly want. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 5 17:58:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08993 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08916 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:58:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10736; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:27:48 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA02435; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:27:47 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980406102747.14562@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:27:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nik Clayton , KapuT , FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: QDOS References: <35257736.5EBE7AC0@aei.ca> <19980404102207.46613@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19980404102207.46613@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Sat, Apr 04, 1998 at 10:22:07AM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 4 April 1998 at 10:22:07 +0100, Nik Clayton wrote: > On Fri, Apr 03, 1998 at 06:56:38PM -0500, KapuT wrote: >> Hi, dont know if all people know what I have readed one hour ago, but I >> will say to you what I have discovered hihihi :-) >> >> I have readed at the bookstore in the Complete FreeBSD from Greg Lehey >> than DOS was derivated from QDOS > > Yep. > > There's very recently been a long discussion about this in the > alt.folklore.computers newsgroup. If you're interested in learning a > lot more about the history behind it all, going to > > > > and searching for > >> g alt.folklore.computers ~s "DOS is stolen" > > (which will, I think, search only in that group for messages with that > subject line) you'll get all the info you could possibly want. g alt.folklore.computers ~s DOS is stolen works better. I've tried fighting my way through this thread, but after 10 messages about BASIC and PDP-10s, I gave up. Microsoft bought the rights to QDOS (which by this time had been renamed 86-DOS for marketing reasons :-) sometime in late 1980 or early 1981. During that time I spoke about the product to George Gardener, the president of SCP, and expressed the opinion that Digital Research, who had just introduced CP/M-86, would blow them out of the water. He said that he was confident that 86-DOS would survive, and that they had just signed a contract with a very big computer company ("I can't tell you *how* big, or you'll know who they are") who were going to use it in a new computer they were bringing out. Note that his focus was on IBM, not on Microsoft, who weren't a serious *anything* in those days. Greg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 10:27:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21168 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21156 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA26971 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma026965; Mon Apr 6 10:26:46 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA23121 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:26:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:26:46 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804061726.KAA23121@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Utopia? (Cool BSD history lesson in a nutshell) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:08:04 -0800 >From: Joey Garcia >(that's my interpretation of it - these guys took the code, >added what was missing in order to run, enhanced it to run on certain >architectures, and then arrived at a working stable OS) Am I on the right >track? That's essentially my perception, yes. Mind you, CSRG had been fairly actively (with intensity increasing in later years) working on replacing AT&T code with independently- implemented code donated by others. My recollection is that as of the 4.3 Reno release, there was about 15 - 20% AT&T code; as of Net/2, it was something more like 5% (or less) -- and a significant chunk of that was in the code used to boot the system. 4.4Lite, I believe, was just about everything *except* the critical parts needed to boot. Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 13:12:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27364 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from misfit.users.xmission.com (misfit.users.xmission.com [207.135.128.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27217 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from misfit@misfit.users.xmission.com) Received: (from misfit@localhost) by misfit.users.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA10448; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:11:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from misfit) To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Berkeley == Berkeley? From: misfit@xmission.com (Anthony C. Chavez) Date: 06 Apr 1998 14:11:30 -0600 Message-ID: <87af9yaex9.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This question has been in the back of my mind for quite a few years now, but I have never bothered to investigate it for some reason. Just wondering if BSD was created by the same "Berkeley" group that makes After Dark (Berkeley Systems, I believe they're called)? And if so, why did they lower their standards? :-) P.S.: This is my first post to the list. Greetings, all! I'm not really a newbie, per se; I have about 8 years experience of using Unix, but I still consider myself a newbie, because there are a lot of holes in my head that need to be filled. :-) As such, I might be able to help a few others on this list who need help with basic things, and I'd like to volunteer my services! -- Anthony C. Chavez To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 13:41:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08702 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (gdi.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08600 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:40:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA19120; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:40:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@gdi.uoregon.edu) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:40:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White Reply-To: Doug White To: Sue Blake cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new motd In-Reply-To: <19980404195045.04695@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Sue Blake wrote: > > Please evaluate the following suggestion for a replacement /etc/motd > OK, here's our chance to have some real input. > Do newbies think this will help? I got a few favorable responses so I'll file the PR. > I like it enough to want to steal most of it for our weekly posting > (http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ if you missed it) > but I'm waiting for your feedback (on both documents). By all means. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 14:03:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12903 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12894 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:03:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA29436 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma029432; Mon Apr 6 14:02:02 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA23892 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:02:02 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804062102.OAA23892@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Professional asssociations that may be of interest Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've gathered the sense that many of the folks on the -newbies list would be interested in learning more -- both about FreeBSD (in particular, and possibly other systems as well), and about (some of) the history behind all this. A resource that I find useful is the USENIX association (http://www.usenix.org/). The bimonthly publication of the Association is called ";login:", and this month's issue inaugurates a regular feature, "Source Code UNIX for PCs." The author, Robert Gray, has a FreeBSD background; this promises to be of (significant) interest to many in the community. In addition to ";login:", the Association sponsors various conferences. (I note that I have seen such folks as Dennis Ritchie, Ken thompson, and Rob Pike -- as well as many of the BSD folks at USENIX conferences....) Perhaps even more interesting (from a practical standpoint) is a group within USENIX called "SAGE" -- the System Administrators Guild (http://www.usenix.org/sage). As its name indicates, it is oriented toward the more practical aspects of persuading (networks of) computers to do what is desired, and as a support group for those of us who do this (in some cases, for a living). SAGE also sponsors conferences: the LISA (Large Installation System Administration) conferences. Also, some parts of the world have local UNIX-oriented groups. I happen to be in the San Francisco Bay area (Berkeley is just across the Bay), and in this area we have a group called BayLISA (San Francisco Bay Area Large Installation System Administrators: http://www.baylisa.org/). And just like ACM (Association for Computing Machinery) meetings, BayLISA meetings are open to the public (and, in the BayLISA case, generally transmitted over the Mbone). (There's also a Silicon Valley Linux Users Group, which draws a significant crowd.) And of course, if there isn't a group where you are, you might be able to help start one.... I hope the above proves useful for some of you.... david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 15:57:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28044 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27965 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:54:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-31.aei.ca [206.186.204.181]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04994 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35295D26.A24F8096@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 18:54:30 -0400 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: FW: FreeBSD and Rhapsody References: <199804050446.UAA08516@scv3.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That E-mail contain a lot of good information. I originaly receive it on hackers@freebsd.org But I dont love rhapsody: in my head BeOS rulez hehehe Wilfredo Sanchez wrote: > Howdy- > > I'm having a hard time figuring out how one becomes a FreeBSD developer > from your web site, so perhaps you guys can help me out. I work for Apple > Computer, and as you may know, we're building this operating system with > the code name Rhapsody. Rhapsody has a full BSD subsystem in it, and we'd > like to get a relationship going with FreeBSD if the FreeBSD team is > interested. > > Most of our BSD code comes from 4BSD Lite, which is a bit dated. Since > last year, I've updated a lot of our user commands using NetBSD's > sources. The decision to use NetBSD was pretty much arbitrary, although > the fact that I can acces their code via CVS, and now can commit changes > back in was a big influence. > > In any case, the BSD kernel guys at Apple usually use FreeBSD as a > reference. This led to some small gotchas due to differences between > NetBSD and FreeBSD, such as the fact that NetBSD lets you change mode > bits on symlinks, which FreeBSD (I think) doesn't. So I had a little > trouble with commands like cp, which tried to do this thing we don't > support. I haven't gotten to the network and system commands and the > libraries, where I think the biggest incompatibility problem lie, and the > consensus is that I should look into using FreeBSD for those. There will > be problems in any case, since we implement BSD over Mach, which makes > commands like ps somewhat unique from other BSD's, but the goal is to > minimize that. > > What I need to know is the degree that you would like to work together > with Apple, if at all, in this regard. It's important that we be able to > send our changes back upstream, since I believe that staying in sync with > our source provider is more important than any competitive advantage that > might buy us. UNIX is of little importance to Rhapsody from a market > standpoint; there are plenty of good UNIX flavors that one can get for > free; the value in Rhapsody lies elsewhere. But BSD *is* important for > several reason, which I'm sure you appreciate. The key is we don't want > to provide "a better UNIX", we just want to be compatible and play nice > with other systems, and have all that functionality. To that end, we > don't need to be unique, and cooperating with you guys would be much > better. > > I tried a few times to get CVSup to work on Rhapsody, and I found it > somewhat difficult, so I don't have that tool, although I could set up a > FreeBSD box to do that. Currently I plan to use the Walnut Creek CDs, > since that's more convenient. The question is how I would get changes > back up to FreeBSD. CVS access would be ideal, and is our current > arrangement with NetBSD. I understand that such access isn't easily > granted, so I'm open to alternatives. > > I should mention that I'm really not all that interested in the merits > of one BSD effort over the others. I'm a little surprised at the > animosity between some developers toward the other groups, and don't > really want to get involved in that debate, so don't tell me why the > other guys stink, in case you are so inclined. I have no loyalties > towards any one group. Ideally, we'd get the best of each, although I > think we'll need a primary to keep things sane, and our kernel guys like > FreeBSD. > > I believe that getting something set up that let us work together will > be mutually beneficial. We can leverage the work you have done, and you > can some paid developers to help with bugs. > > Thanks, > -Fred > > --- > Wilfredo Sanchez - wsanchez@apple.com - 408.974-5174 > Apple Computer, Inc. - Rhapsody Core Operating Systems Group > 2 Infinite Loop, Mail Stop 302-4K, Cupertino, CA 95014 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 16:16:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01481 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01471 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:16:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (pdx71-i48-39.teleport.com [204.202.173.53]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA32158; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:26:32 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:18:23 -0700 () From: Rick Hamell To: "Anthony C. Chavez" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Berkeley == Berkeley? In-Reply-To: <87af9yaex9.fsf@misfit.users.xmission.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This question has been in the back of my mind for quite a few years now, but I > have never bothered to investigate it for some reason. Just wondering if BSD > was created by the same "Berkeley" group that makes After Dark (Berkeley > Systems, I believe they're called)? And if so, why did they lower their > standards? :-) BSD was created by Cal Berkely, the University. Berkeley Systems is just a software company that happens to be based in the City of Berkeley (I believe,) either way, they're two different things by far. :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 17:27:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10166 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:27:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA10160 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 13827 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1998 00:27:20 -0000 Received: from sb1-50.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.50) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1998 00:27:20 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: Subject: mounting floppy file systems Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:24:12 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd61bb$7d113420$3206bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I've been sort of lurking in the background here (as I seem to do with most newsgroups), but as a newbie ran into something semi-annoying today. While trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete freebsd" pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. Works just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as well.. Was I jettin along too fast at the beginning of the book, possibly missing the part that told me why /A should work later? Is this worth asking to get put in as Errata later? I kinda figured that it must be somewhere else in the book, or else it would have made it into the first errata. Thoughts....comments? Thanks, Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 17:40:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12205 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12199 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:40:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09246; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:40:37 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980407104034.19303@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:40:34 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Michael P. Sale" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd61bb$7d113420$3206bccc@708644668> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01bd61bb$7d113420$3206bccc@708644668>; from Michael P. Sale on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been sort of lurking in the background here (as I seem to do with most > newsgroups), but as a newbie ran into something semi-annoying today. While > trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete freebsd" > pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a > little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. Works > just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as > well.. We're not getting the full picture yet. Is it a DOS formatted floppy? Have you told /etc/fstab to expect one of those when mounting /A or not? Does the /A directory exist? Exactly what command are you using to mount the floppy? > Was I jettin along too fast at the beginning of the book, possibly missing > the part that told me why /A should work later? Is this worth asking to get > put in as Errata later? I kinda figured that it must be somewhere else in > the book, or else it would have made it into the first errata. You shouldn't still be using the first errata. Check inside the first page and pick up the current one. Additions are always well received. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 18:21:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20114 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:21:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA20084 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:21:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 18038 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1998 01:21:24 -0000 Received: from sb1-50.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.50) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1998 01:21:24 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: "Sue Blake" Cc: Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:18:16 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd61c3$0ae8fc40$3206bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----Original Message----- From: Sue Blake To: Michael P. Sale Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 5:43 PM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've been sort of lurking in the background here (as I seem to do with most >> newsgroups), but as a newbie ran into something semi-annoying today. While >> trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete freebsd" >> pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a >> little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. Works >> just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as >> well.. > >We're not getting the full picture yet. Is it a DOS formatted floppy? Have >you told /etc/fstab to expect one of those when mounting /A or not? Does the >/A directory exist? Exactly what command are you using to mount the floppy? Sue, That's one thing I like about the newbies list. I was fairly certain I would have at least one response! /A does not show up in /etc/fstab. I suspected that I needed it in there, but thought that was a question more for RTFM or the questions list. (I'm still not sure how to do it) It has however been noted by myself that questions had best be reserved for the questions list. :-] If I format the floppy with freebsd I use the mount /dev/fd0 /mnt command. With a win95/DOS disk I use the mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt command. Both seem to work just fine, though I went searching through the archives to find the mount -t msdos command. Up until then, I had a heck of a time figuring out how to get the file systems working right. > > >> Was I jettin along too fast at the beginning of the book, possibly missing >> the part that told me why /A should work later? Is this worth asking to get >> put in as Errata later? I kinda figured that it must be somewhere else in >> the book, or else it would have made it into the first errata. > >You shouldn't still be using the first errata. Check inside the first page >and pick up the current one. Additions are always well received. > The point I now realize I am trying to make is "how intuitive is it for the newbie user to figure the /A out before he/she gets to that page?" If I'm just a goof (possible) and it is fairly simple and I missed it earlier in the docs, then it can be forgotten about. If getting to the /A requires new questions and searching upon getting to page 211 (I went there pretty quickly because it was the "floppy disks" chapter), then I think it would be nice to have a little blurb that says "hey you goof, if you are getting xxxx error when trying to mount the floppy, please try mount /dev/fd0 /mnt and reference page xx for details on how to get /A set up correctly in your /etc/fstab file". This was why I thought it may be a decent "newbies" topic. I doubt too many Unix guru's have too much trouble mounting floppies or figuring out how to modify the /etc/fstab file. I am currently using the 21 March errata. Sorry for the mis-information. > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > Thanks again, Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 18:38:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23356 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23350 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:38:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09419; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:38:21 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980407113817.27869@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:38:17 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Michael P. Sale" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd61c3$0ae8fc40$3206bccc@708644668> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01bd61c3$0ae8fc40$3206bccc@708644668>; from Michael P. Sale on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:18:16PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:18:16PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > While > >> trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete > freebsd" > >> pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a > >> little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. > Works > >> just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as > >> well.. > > > >We're not getting the full picture yet. Is it a DOS formatted floppy? Have > >you told /etc/fstab to expect one of those when mounting /A or not? Does the > >/A directory exist? Exactly what command are you using to mount the floppy? > /A does not show up in /etc/fstab. I suspected that I needed it in there, Not necessarily. > but thought that was a question more for RTFM or the questions list. (I'm > still not sure how to do it) It has however been noted by myself that > questions had best be reserved for the questions list. :-] That's right, but in this case we're trying to help you work out what that question will be :-) > If I format the floppy with freebsd I use the mount /dev/fd0 /mnt command. > > With a win95/DOS disk I use the mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt command. > > Both seem to work just fine, though I went searching through the archives to > find the mount -t msdos command. Up until then, I had a heck of a time > figuring out how to get the file systems working right. So what happens, what does it say, when it doesn't work? > >> Was I jettin along too fast at the beginning of the book, possibly > missing > >> the part that told me why /A should work later? Is this worth asking to > get > >> put in as Errata later? I kinda figured that it must be somewhere else > in > >> the book, or else it would have made it into the first errata. > > > >You shouldn't still be using the first errata. Check inside the first page > >and pick up the current one. Additions are always well received. > > > The point I now realize I am trying to make is "how intuitive is it for the > newbie user to figure the /A out before he/she gets to that page?" If I'm > just a goof (possible) and it is fairly simple and I missed it earlier in > the docs, then it can be forgotten about. Now that I take a quick look at the book, it seems to be saying "this is a lead-in _example_ of how you would do it with a ufs floppy, but of course you'll be using FAT floppies as described over the page, for reasons given over the page" > If getting to the /A requires new questions and searching upon getting to > page 211 (I went there pretty quickly because it was the "floppy disks" > chapter), then I think it would be nice to have a little blurb that says > "hey you goof, if you are getting xxxx error when trying to mount the Yeah? Well what is your xxxx error? No secrets now! :-) > floppy, please try mount /dev/fd0 /mnt and reference page xx for details on > how to get /A set up correctly in your /etc/fstab file". I very much doubt that that is what you would want to do. Generally DOS formatted floppies are used (read on to see why), and there's two ways I know of to access them. Either they can be mounted (with a command that says they're DOS or with an fstab entry), or you can skip all that baloney and use the easier mtools (described later in the chapter) which are intuitive, magic, and don't require mounting to happen. > This was why I thought it may be a decent "newbies" topic. I doubt too many > Unix guru's have too much trouble mounting floppies or figuring out how to > modify the /etc/fstab file. Well the best you can expect here is to share someone else's misinformation until it's together enough to make an answerable question. Sometimes during that process the problem goes away. On the other hand, that too can be a newbies illusion :-) See if you read the book the same way as I do now, or not. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 19:33:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02108 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA02103 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:33:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 23642 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1998 02:33:47 -0000 Received: from sb1-50.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.50) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1998 02:33:47 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: "Sue Blake" Cc: Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:30:39 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd61cd$2751bca0$3206bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yikes, What a mess! -----Original Message----- From: Sue Blake To: Michael P. Sale Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 6:38 PM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:18:16PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > >> While >> >> trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete >> freebsd" >> >> pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a >> >> little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. >> Works >> >> just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as >> >> well.. >> > >> >We're not getting the full picture yet. Is it a DOS formatted floppy? Have >> >you told /etc/fstab to expect one of those when mounting /A or not? Does the >> >/A directory exist? Exactly what command are you using to mount the floppy? > >> /A does not show up in /etc/fstab. I suspected that I needed it in there, > >Not necessarily. Mmmmm. OK, then how does one get it to work? Fess up the info. > >> but thought that was a question more for RTFM or the questions list. (I'm >> still not sure how to do it) It has however been noted by myself that >> questions had best be reserved for the questions list. :-] > >That's right, but in this case we're trying to help you work out what that >question will be :-) True. > > >> If I format the floppy with freebsd I use the mount /dev/fd0 /mnt command. >> >> With a win95/DOS disk I use the mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt command. >> >> Both seem to work just fine, though I went searching through the archives to >> find the mount -t msdos command. Up until then, I had a heck of a time >> figuring out how to get the file systems working right. > >So what happens, what does it say, when it doesn't work? Not sure what you're lookin for here. When what does not work? If you are talking about file system incompatibility, win95 would declare a freebsd formatted disk unformatted. Funny though. When I would mount a dos disk with only mount /dev/fd0, freebsd would mount, write and read the disk. Win95 would read the disk as formatted, but would not see any files on it...... > >> >> Was I jettin along too fast at the beginning of the book, possibly >> missing >> >> the part that told me why /A should work later? Is this worth asking to >> get >> >> put in as Errata later? I kinda figured that it must be somewhere else >> in >> >> the book, or else it would have made it into the first errata. >> > >> >You shouldn't still be using the first errata. Check inside the first page >> >and pick up the current one. Additions are always well received. >> > >> The point I now realize I am trying to make is "how intuitive is it for the >> newbie user to figure the /A out before he/she gets to that page?" If I'm >> just a goof (possible) and it is fairly simple and I missed it earlier in >> the docs, then it can be forgotten about. > >Now that I take a quick look at the book, it seems to be saying "this is a >lead-in _example_ of how you would do it with a ufs floppy, but of course >you'll be using FAT floppies as described over the page, for reasons given >over the page" True. That was the intended use from the beginning. I was trying to get my ppp.conf file over from the freebsd box to win95 so I could post it in questions. :-) I did not however understand that I would need to treat the disk differently until a lot of searching and reading later. > >> If getting to the /A requires new questions and searching upon getting to >> page 211 (I went there pretty quickly because it was the "floppy disks" >> chapter), then I think it would be nice to have a little blurb that says >> "hey you goof, if you are getting xxxx error when trying to mount the > >Yeah? Well what is your xxxx error? No secrets now! :-) Error reads as follows: mount: /A: No such file or directory > >> floppy, please try mount /dev/fd0 /mnt and reference page xx for details on >> how to get /A set up correctly in your /etc/fstab file". > >I very much doubt that that is what you would want to do. Why not? > >Generally DOS formatted floppies are used (read on to see why), and there's >two ways I know of to access them. Either they can be mounted (with a >command that says they're DOS or with an fstab entry), or you can skip all >that baloney and use the easier mtools (described later in the chapter) >which are intuitive, magic, and don't require mounting to happen. See above comment on how I mounted the dos a third way (didn't work correctly)......Either way, I tried several different mount (no mtools) tactics with the /A and none worked. The only thing that ever worked was going to the /mnt at the end vs the /A. As for mtools. Not sure if I really see an advantage to mtools or not. The only thing I read that made an impression (granted it was a quick read) was the possible problem with carriage returns getting funked up during copies. Isn't there a unix utility that will fix that too though? > >> This was why I thought it may be a decent "newbies" topic. I doubt too many >> Unix guru's have too much trouble mounting floppies or figuring out how to >> modify the /etc/fstab file. > >Well the best you can expect here is to share someone else's misinformation >until it's together enough to make an answerable question. Sometimes during >that process the problem goes away. On the other hand, that too can be a >newbies illusion :-) Yikes!! I expect better than that!! :-} >See if you read the book the same way as I do now, or not. > Yes and no. I think I understand where you are going with this. I have not read enough of the book to really agree or disagree. I do think that having a chapter with "floppy disks" in the title should either fully explain how to mount the darn things or point the newbie user someplace that can. I don't think that the pages in that chapter do it. Again, I have not read the whole book ( I think my poor little melon would explode), much less ever tried to write one, but I do think that the chapter makes a few assumptions that newbies could choke on. Greg does a great job of dropping hints and pointing readers to other places for information, I just think it may be an option here too. As a side note, I also understand that you can't have pointers to everything all over the place. That's why I posted it here, to see whether I was nuts or not and to see if other newbies had the same problems I did. >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > I think my brain is going to explode, Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 6 21:06:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA14546 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:06:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14445 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA09859; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:05:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980407140500.56628@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:05:00 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Michael P. Sale" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd61cd$2751bca0$3206bccc@708644668> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01bd61cd$2751bca0$3206bccc@708644668>; from Michael P. Sale on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 07:30:39PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 07:30:39PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > Yikes, > > What a mess! [sigh] I'll see if I can tidy it up a bit. Why are you using microslop anyway? > > >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:18:16PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > > > >> While > >> >> trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete > >> freebsd" > >> >> pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a > >> >> little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. > >> Works > >> >> just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as > >> >> well.. > >> > >>>> We're not getting the full picture yet. Is it a DOS formatted >>>> floppy? Have you told /etc/fstab to expect one of those when >>>> mounting /A or not? Does the /A directory exist? Exactly what >>>> command are you using to mount the floppy? >>> /A does not show up in /etc/fstab. I suspected that I needed it in there, >>Not necessarily. > Mmmmm. OK, then how does one get it to work? Fess up the info. If I understand this stuff correctly, you don't need /etc/fstab at all, but you do need to be specific when you give the mount command. You can use /etc/fstab to make life easier though. I tell it to expect a CD to be mounted on /cdrom, so when I say "mount /cdrom" mount goes hunting around in fstab and gets the rest of the info, that it's a CD9660. You could do the same thing with floppies, have a directory called /floppy and put the relevant info in fstab. I'd never bother for floppies. > >> If I format the floppy with freebsd I use the mount /dev/fd0 > >> /mnt command. > >> > >> With a win95/DOS disk I use the mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt command. > >> > >> Both seem to work just fine, though I went searching through the > >> archives to find the mount -t msdos command. Up until then, I > >> had a heck of a time figuring out how to get the file systems > >> working right. > > > >So what happens, what does it say, when it doesn't work? > > Not sure what you're lookin for here. When what does not work? Hmmm... that was to be MY question :-) > If you are talking about file system incompatibility, win95 would > declare a freebsd formatted disk unformatted. Funny though. When > I would mount a dos disk with only mount /dev/fd0, freebsd would > mount, write and read the disk. Win95 would read the disk as > formatted, but would not see any files on it...... No I wasn't, and I'm not likely to come across what you described there so I don't want to confuse myself over it just now. > >> The point I now realize I am trying to make is "how intuitive is > >> it for the newbie user to figure the /A out before he/she gets > >> to that page?" If I'm just a goof (possible) and it is fairly > >> simple and I missed it earlier in the docs, then it can be > >> forgotten about. Maybe you wouldn't have felt like that if it'd worked first go? > >Now that I take a quick look at the book, it seems to be saying > >"this is a lead-in _example_ of how you would do it with a ufs > >floppy, but of course you'll be using FAT floppies as described > >over the page, for reasons given over the page" > > True. That was the intended use from the beginning. I was trying > to get my ppp.conf file over from the freebsd box to win95 so I > could post it in questions. :-) I did not however understand that > I would need to treat the disk differently until a lot of searching > and reading later. It's a pity you didn't know how incredibly simple this task could have been. All you need is something like: mcopy /etc/ppp/ppp.conf a: > >> If getting to the /A requires new questions and searching upon > >> getting to page 211 (I went there pretty quickly because it was > >> the "floppy disks" chapter), then I think it would be nice to > >> have a little blurb that says "hey you goof, if you are getting > >> xxxx error when trying to mount the > > > >Yeah? Well what is your xxxx error? No secrets now! :-) > > Error reads as follows: > mount: /A: No such file or directory ::BINGO:: It tells you what's gone wrong. Why didn't you say that in the first place? I know, that would have made it a straightforward question and you wouldn't have had the chance to chat :-) > >> floppy, please try mount /dev/fd0 /mnt and reference page xx for > >> details on how to get /A set up correctly in your /etc/fstab > >> file". > > > >I very much doubt that that is what you would want to do. > > Why not? You don't need, and I can't imagine why you'd want, to have floppy stuff in your fstab, even if you were masochistic enough to ignore mtools and try to mount and unmount the things. Also, if you had the best help in the world to frill up your fstab and get the mounting commands just right, it still wouldn't mount for you if /A didn't exist or couldn't be found. > >Generally DOS formatted floppies are used (read on to see why), > >and there's two ways I know of to access them. Either they can be > >mounted (with a command that says they're DOS or with an fstab > >entry), or you can skip all that baloney and use the easier mtools > >(described later in the chapter) which are intuitive, magic, and > >don't require mounting to happen. > > See above comment on how I mounted the dos a third way (didn't work > correctly)......Either way, I tried several different mount (no > mtools) tactics with the /A and none worked. The only thing that > ever worked was going to the /mnt at the end vs the /A. And what you're telling yourself here is that the only difference between working and not working was the name of the directory. Your error message confirms that that's where the problem is. > As for mtools. Not sure if I really see an advantage to mtools or > not. The only thing I read that made an impression (granted it was > a quick read) was the possible problem with carriage returns > getting funked up during copies. Isn't there a unix utility that > will fix that too though? You sound a bit like me, always getting tied up in the most difficult looking part of something. In this case, mtools is so simple that only the tricky bits need explaining. Forget it. Just use mtools to work with floppies. Pretend it's DOS but put "m" as the first letter of each command. If your text files get funny characters at the end of lines, delete them with your trusty text editor when they annoy. When you've become convinced that mtools is wonderful, start looking at what else it can do. If it doesn't work, RTFM or experiment. > >> This was why I thought it may be a decent "newbies" topic. I > >> doubt too many Unix guru's have too much trouble mounting > >> floppies or figuring out how to modify the /etc/fstab file. > > > >Well the best you can expect here is to share someone else's > >misinformation until it's together enough to make an answerable > >question. Sometimes during that process the problem goes away. On > >the other hand, that too can be a newbies illusion :-) > > Yikes!! I expect better than that!! :-} Then you should have gone to freebsd-questions and had your question ripped to shreds there instead of here :-) They handle the newest newbies questions, but they kinda like to know what the problem is right up front. > >See if you read the book the same way as I do now, or not. > > > Yes and no. I think I understand where you are going with this. I > have not read enough of the book to really agree or disagree. I do > think that having a chapter with "floppy disks" in the title should > either fully explain how to mount the darn things or point the > newbie user someplace that can. I don't think that the pages in > that chapter do it. Again, I have not read the whole book ( I > think my poor little melon would explode), much less ever tried to > write one, but I do think that the chapter makes a few assumptions > that newbies could choke on. Greg does a great job of dropping > hints and pointing readers to other places for information, I just > think it may be an option here too. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I read it differently. The intro to the section on floppies gives an "overview", four examples of how floppies might be used. The third sounds like what you wanted to do, and it points you straight to page 212. I think it should be pointing to 213 but no matter, you see the big "Accessing Microsoft floppies" heading leaping out on the right there. > As a side note, I also understand that you can't have pointers to > everything all over the place. That's why I posted it here, to see > whether I was nuts or not and to see if other newbies had the same > problems I did. I've got this theory that no matter how clearly you make instructions, the more desperately someone needs them the less they are able to take in what they say. When things start going wrong there's too much information to take in, let alone sort the essentials from the extras. It doesn't help to tell someone they're crazy if they can't see it, even when that someone is yourself. People just work that way. What do you reckon? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 12:10:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18763 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA18611 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 22180 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1998 19:10:16 -0000 Received: from sb1-66.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.66) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1998 19:10:16 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:07:06 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd6258$5bc62bc0$4206bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----Original Message----- From: Sue Blake To: Michael P. Sale Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 9:07 PM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 07:30:39PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: >> Yikes, >> >> What a mess! > >[sigh] I'll see if I can tidy it up a bit. Why are you using microslop >anyway? Sorry......Seemed to work at the time, and now with all my filters in place I've been to busy (lazy) to change. > >> >> >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 06:18:16PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: >> > >> >> While >> >> >> trying to mount my floppy (following instructions on "the complete >> >> freebsd" >> >> >> pg 211) I ran into all sorts of fun with that darn /A. After buying a >> >> >> little sense, I did some searching and came up with the /mnt instead. >> >> Works >> >> >> just fine now, though I'm still searching for how to get the /A set up as >> >> >> well.. >> >> > > >>>>> We're not getting the full picture yet. Is it a DOS formatted >>>>> floppy? Have you told /etc/fstab to expect one of those when >>>>> mounting /A or not? Does the /A directory exist? Exactly what >>>>> command are you using to mount the floppy? > >>>> /A does not show up in /etc/fstab. I suspected that I needed it in there, > >>>Not necessarily. > >> Mmmmm. OK, then how does one get it to work? Fess up the info. > >If I understand this stuff correctly, you don't need /etc/fstab at >all, but you do need to be specific when you give the mount command. > >You can use /etc/fstab to make life easier though. I tell it to >expect a CD to be mounted on /cdrom, so when I say "mount /cdrom" >mount goes hunting around in fstab and gets the rest of the info, >that it's a CD9660. You could do the same thing with floppies, have a >directory called /floppy and put the relevant info in fstab. I'd >never bother for floppies. I'll look into it, but I suspect you are correct. > > >> >> If I format the floppy with freebsd I use the mount /dev/fd0 >> >> /mnt command. >> >> >> >> With a win95/DOS disk I use the mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt command. >> >> >> >> Both seem to work just fine, though I went searching through the >> >> archives to find the mount -t msdos command. Up until then, I >> >> had a heck of a time figuring out how to get the file systems >> >> working right. >> > >> >So what happens, what does it say, when it doesn't work? >> >> Not sure what you're lookin for here. When what does not work? > >Hmmm... that was to be MY question :-) > >> If you are talking about file system incompatibility, win95 would >> declare a freebsd formatted disk unformatted. Funny though. When >> I would mount a dos disk with only mount /dev/fd0, freebsd would >> mount, write and read the disk. Win95 would read the disk as >> formatted, but would not see any files on it...... > >No I wasn't, and I'm not likely to come across what you described >there so I don't want to confuse myself over it just now. > > >> >> The point I now realize I am trying to make is "how intuitive is >> >> it for the newbie user to figure the /A out before he/she gets >> >> to that page?" If I'm just a goof (possible) and it is fairly >> >> simple and I missed it earlier in the docs, then it can be >> >> forgotten about. > >Maybe you wouldn't have felt like that if it'd worked first go? Ah ha! That's why I brought it up. :-) > >> >Now that I take a quick look at the book, it seems to be saying >> >"this is a lead-in _example_ of how you would do it with a ufs >> >floppy, but of course you'll be using FAT floppies as described >> >over the page, for reasons given over the page" >> >> True. That was the intended use from the beginning. I was trying >> to get my ppp.conf file over from the freebsd box to win95 so I >> could post it in questions. :-) I did not however understand that >> I would need to treat the disk differently until a lot of searching >> and reading later. > >It's a pity you didn't know how incredibly simple this task could >have been. All you need is something like: > >mcopy /etc/ppp/ppp.conf a: True, though now that I do know it, I'll probably be less likely to go to mtools. > > >> >> If getting to the /A requires new questions and searching upon >> >> getting to page 211 (I went there pretty quickly because it was >> >> the "floppy disks" chapter), then I think it would be nice to >> >> have a little blurb that says "hey you goof, if you are getting >> >> xxxx error when trying to mount the >> > >> >Yeah? Well what is your xxxx error? No secrets now! :-) >> >> Error reads as follows: >> mount: /A: No such file or directory > > ::BINGO:: > >It tells you what's gone wrong. Why didn't you say that in the first >place? I know, that would have made it a straightforward question and >you wouldn't have had the chance to chat :-) [sigh] I understand what it means, just not why it shows up. > > >> >> floppy, please try mount /dev/fd0 /mnt and reference page xx for >> >> details on how to get /A set up correctly in your /etc/fstab >> >> file". >> > >> >I very much doubt that that is what you would want to do. >> >> Why not? > >You don't need, and I can't imagine why you'd want, to have floppy >stuff in your fstab, even if you were masochistic enough to ignore >mtools and try to mount and unmount the things. Yikes.....I guess after my last comment I'm going to have to subscribe to masochists anonymous. :-( I appreciate the mtools information, but I can't see any advantage to using them and no one has given me any. Mounting/unmounting the floppy is as easy as writing 2 quick scripts. (Masochistically doen allready) :-) I appreciate advice (really, I do!), but without the facts behind the advice it's hard for me to justify learning something new when I have so much to learn, and I can't see a difference in changing. > >Also, if you had the best help in the world to frill up your fstab >and get the mounting commands just right, it still wouldn't mount for >you if /A didn't exist or couldn't be found. We still have not aswered the "why can't it be found" question. > >> >Generally DOS formatted floppies are used (read on to see why), >> >and there's two ways I know of to access them. Either they can be >> >mounted (with a command that says they're DOS or with an fstab >> >entry), or you can skip all that baloney and use the easier mtools >> >(described later in the chapter) which are intuitive, magic, and >> >don't require mounting to happen. >> >> See above comment on how I mounted the dos a third way (didn't work >> correctly)......Either way, I tried several different mount (no >> mtools) tactics with the /A and none worked. The only thing that >> ever worked was going to the /mnt at the end vs the /A. > >And what you're telling yourself here is that the only difference >between working and not working was the name of the directory. Your >error message confirms that that's where the problem is. > >> As for mtools. Not sure if I really see an advantage to mtools or >> not. The only thing I read that made an impression (granted it was >> a quick read) was the possible problem with carriage returns >> getting funked up during copies. Isn't there a unix utility that >> will fix that too though? > >You sound a bit like me, always getting tied up in the most difficult >looking part of something. In this case, mtools is so simple that >only the tricky bits need explaining. Forget it. Just use mtools to >work with floppies. Pretend it's DOS but put "m" as the first letter >of each command. If your text files get funny characters at the end >of lines, delete them with your trusty text editor when they annoy. >When you've become convinced that mtools is wonderful, start looking >at what else it can do. If it doesn't work, RTFM or experiment. Again, I appreciate the info, but "just use mtools" does not give me the information needed to make a decision. (I'm busy rapping myself on the head to see just how hard it is right now!) > >> >> This was why I thought it may be a decent "newbies" topic. I >> >> doubt too many Unix guru's have too much trouble mounting >> >> floppies or figuring out how to modify the /etc/fstab file. >> > >> >Well the best you can expect here is to share someone else's >> >misinformation until it's together enough to make an answerable >> >question. Sometimes during that process the problem goes away. On >> >the other hand, that too can be a newbies illusion :-) >> >> Yikes!! I expect better than that!! :-} > >Then you should have gone to freebsd-questions and had your question >ripped to shreds there instead of here :-) They handle the newest >newbies questions, but they kinda like to know what the problem is >right up front. It's a good thing I didn't. I doubt very much that the questions list would appreciate this discussion. :-) > > >> >See if you read the book the same way as I do now, or not. >> > >> Yes and no. I think I understand where you are going with this. I >> have not read enough of the book to really agree or disagree. I do >> think that having a chapter with "floppy disks" in the title should >> either fully explain how to mount the darn things or point the >> newbie user someplace that can. I don't think that the pages in >> that chapter do it. Again, I have not read the whole book ( I >> think my poor little melon would explode), much less ever tried to >> write one, but I do think that the chapter makes a few assumptions >> that newbies could choke on. Greg does a great job of dropping >> hints and pointing readers to other places for information, I just >> think it may be an option here too. > >I'm not saying you're wrong, but I read it differently. The intro to >the section on floppies gives an "overview", four examples of how >floppies might be used. The third sounds like what you wanted to do, >and it points you straight to page 212. I think it should be pointing >to 213 but no matter, you see the big "Accessing Microsoft floppies" >heading leaping out on the right there. I suspect one of two things will happen here. A: After reading more of the book, I will come to read the book as you do. B: We will read the book differently for a looong time. Either way should be interesting! > >> As a side note, I also understand that you can't have pointers to >> everything all over the place. That's why I posted it here, to see >> whether I was nuts or not and to see if other newbies had the same >> problems I did. > >I've got this theory that no matter how clearly you make >instructions, the more desperately someone needs them the less they >are able to take in what they say. When things start going wrong >there's too much information to take in, let alone sort the >essentials from the extras. It doesn't help to tell someone they're >crazy if they can't see it, even when that someone is yourself. >People just work that way. What do you reckon? Don't know if I've ever met a crazy that's known it. Either way, I think the point here has been missed. The point is that the book directs a user to do something that is not possible, given the information available in that chapter. Period. It does not direct you to information that will allow the command mount /etc/fd0 /A to work if it fails, nor does it offer the workaround mount /etc/fd0 /mnt. You cannot mount a freedbsd formatted floppy in the way that is suggested in the chapter, much less a DOS one. Forget mtools, forget that I indeed wanted a DOS floppy. You cannot mount anything (even a freebsd formatted floppy) on my system using the command mount /dev/fd0 /A. The archives bear out the fact that I am not the only person that has had this trouble. The original post was trying to figure out whether or not I missed something early on in the book that would in fact lead to this command working correctly as stated on page 211. I'm sorry above paragraphs may sound abrupt, but I think this thread is getting off the original topic. > > >-- > >Regards, > -*Sue*- > >find / -name "*.conf" |more > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message> Are we having fun yet? Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 13:59:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14961 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:59:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14720 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:58:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05880; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:58:29 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980407205829.45527@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:58:29 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: "Michael P. Sale" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd61bb$7d113420$3206bccc@708644668> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <01bd61bb$7d113420$3206bccc@708644668>; from Michael P. Sale on Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > After buying a little sense, I did some searching and came up with the > /mnt instead. Works just fine now, though I'm still searching for how > to get the /A set up as well.. I don't have the book to hand. I'll skip most of the standard questions, since I've seen a few replies to your message cover them. I think you've missed an important point. When you mount a filesystem (whether it's from a floppy, Zip or hard disk) you need to have a pre-existing directory on which to mount it. If the directory /a does not exist, you will first need to create it. # mkdir /a # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /a will probably work. I suspect the /mnt directory existed, and the /a directory did not (it's possible a previous section of the book showed its creation, but, as I say, I don't have the book to hand). /mnt is an informal convention about where to mount things. For example, I have 1 floppy drive, 1 CDROM and 1 ZIP drive in my machine. I have /mnt/floppy /mnt/cdrom /mnt/zip set up, and mount on to there with commands like mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy mount -t msdos /dev/cd0 /mnt/cdrom mount -t msdos /dev/sd0s4 /mnt/zip as appropriate. If the directories don't exist, this happens # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /non_existant_dir mount: /non_existant_dir: No such file or directory Make sense? N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 14:12:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17463 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17414 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from arwen.myst.no (pc33.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.40]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id XAA04423; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:11:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by arwen.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA00257; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:08:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: arwen.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:08:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@arwen.myst.no To: "Michael P. Sale" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems In-Reply-To: <01bd6258$5bc62bc0$4206bccc@708644668> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Michael P. Sale wrote: >>> Error reads as follows: >>> mount: /A: No such file or directory >> >> ::BINGO:: >> >> It tells you what's gone wrong. Why didn't you say that in the first >> place? I know, that would have made it a straightforward question and >> you wouldn't have had the chance to chat :-) > > [sigh] I understand what it means, just not why it shows up. The trouble is only that "/A" *does not exist*. If you type "ls /", to list all files in the root directory, you will see that /mnt does exist, while /A does not. That's why it works mounting things on /mnt, and not on /A. /mnt is just a common directory, and so should /A be. At least, that's the first answer I can think of :) -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 15:45:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09441 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:45:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09347 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA12669; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:45:33 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980408084530.10172@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:45:30 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "Michael P. Sale" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd6258$5bc62bc0$4206bccc@708644668> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01bd6258$5bc62bc0$4206bccc@708644668>; from Michael P. Sale on Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:07:06PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 07, 1998 at 12:07:06PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > >> Error reads as follows: > >> mount: /A: No such file or directory > > > > ::BINGO:: > > > >It tells you what's gone wrong. Why didn't you say that in the first > >place? I know, that would have made it a straightforward question and > >you wouldn't have had the chance to chat :-) > > [sigh] I understand what it means, just not why it shows up. It shows up because there's no such file or directory (/A). Did you ever create that directory? If not, try creating it, see if mount works. If mount works, fine. If you did create that directory and it still doesn't work, come back with full details like what you did exactly and what error messages and so on. > Yikes.....I guess after my last comment I'm going to have to subscribe to > masochists anonymous. :-( Too late, you're here :-) > We still have not aswered the "why can't it be found" question. You still haven't answered the "does it exist?" question. If you make a directory called /frog can you mount the floppy there? If you make a directory called /F can you mount the floppy there? What's different about /A ? /mnt ? > >Then you should have gone to freebsd-questions and had your question > >ripped to shreds there instead of here :-) They handle the newest > >newbies questions, but they kinda like to know what the problem is > >right up front. > > It's a good thing I didn't. I doubt very much that the questions list > would appreciate this discussion. :-) You wouldn't have had it. They'd have probably waited until you gave over the essential info (what are you doing, what is the error message, what else have you tried and does /A exist) before bothering to help. > I suspect one of two things will happen here. A: After reading more > of the book, I will come to read the book as you do. B: We will read > the book differently for a looong time. Either way should be > interesting! I suspect you're simply missing one little thing and it'll read differently when you solve this. If not, if the book seems to be missing something even after you've worked out what's going on, write to Greg Lehey and give him the details he needs to see the problem from your end and consider making any necessary changes. That's a pretty normal thing to do. > Either way, I think the point here has been missed. The point is that the > book directs a user to do something that is not possible, given the > information available in that chapter. Period. It does not direct you to > information that will allow the command mount /etc/fd0 /A to work if it > fails, nor does it offer the workaround mount /etc/fd0 /mnt. Is that true? OK, how about first seeing what you can solve for yourself here. It doesn't work with /A but it does work with /mnt. That's not enough. Either 1. There's something magic about /mnt that makes it work while no other directory will 2. There's something magic about /A that makes it not work while any other directory would work 3. There are some directory names that work and some that don't work 4. Any directory will work but you have to make the directory first 5. There's some other reason (and I can think of a few). > The archives bear out the fact that I am not the only person that has > had this trouble. The original post was trying to figure out whether > or not I missed something early on in the book that would in fact lead > to this command working correctly as stated on page 211. Could be. But it's hard to say without knowing what's going wrong. It looks like everything is working perfectly except that you haven't got a directory called /A so you can't mount there. You've implied that it does exist, but you have never actually said so. That makes it very hard to talk about the problem, let alone help you find out why. Also, you might get a different result from the archive search if you search for the error message rather than your own command. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 19:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17703 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA17546 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:59:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA12868 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012864; Tue Apr 7 18:58:57 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA29024 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:58:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:58:57 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804080158.SAA29024@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Although it's tangential to the original thread, there was mention of something that I believe bears further discussion: >From: "Michael P. Sale" >Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:07:06 -0700 >>It's a pity you didn't know how incredibly simple this task could >>have been. All you need is something like: >>mcopy /etc/ppp/ppp.conf a: >True, though now that I do know it, I'll probably be less likely to go to >mtools. >.... >I appreciate the mtools information, but I can't see any advantage to using >them and no one has given me any. Mounting/unmounting the floppy is as >easy as writing 2 quick scripts. (Masochistically doen allready) :-) I >appreciate advice (really, I do!), but without the facts behind the advice >it's hard for me to justify learning something new when I have so much to >learn, and I can't see a difference in changing. With all due respect, the above illustrates something that deserves a bit more attention. Others have pointed out the need to actually have the mount point (a directory -- in this case, /A) already created (though I don't recall anyone mentioning (in this thread) that /a and /A are quite different: filenames in UNIX are case-sensitive). However: using the "mount" command requires super-user (root) privilege; the mtools approach does not. This is non-trivial. The design of UNIX is such that it should be possible -- even reasonably straightforward -- to actually get constructive work done without requiring the use of root privilege (save possibly via setuid programs). (Recall that in the early days of UNIX' use at Bell Labs, there were department secretaries using UNIX systems to type memos & letters using troff, nroff, and their macro packages.) Put another way: the perception that root privilege is needed as a matter of routine is a symptom of a problem. (For example, I'll use root privilege, say, to re-build a kernel, or install some software, or update DNS "zone files"; I do *not* use root for routine tasks.) >From some perspectives, the distinction is, I suppose, a nuisance. From my perspective, the distinction is a "saving grace" -- it helps prevent my mistakes from damaging the system: as a "normal user" (which I play most of the time, even though I'm a systems administrator by profession), all I can damage are my own files (and files or directories with Really Stupid (tm) permissions set). This is one of the reasons one doesn't hear much about a "virus" in (reasonably-administered) UNIX systems. It is a Good Thing. Again (since I mentioned it in an earlier missive), if you do need to use root privilege (as you sometimes do, to administer (but not use!) a system), I strongly recommend the use of "sudo", and for those files you change, the use of the RCS commands (ci, co, rcsdiff, rlog, & rcs, mostly) can be very useful. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 19:24:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA23799 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA23686 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:24:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 23573 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1998 02:24:00 -0000 Received: from sb2-80.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.80) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1998 02:24:00 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:21:09 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd6294$fe4d42c0$5006bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes!, Yes!, Yes! I was most certainly missing the point. I did not (apparently) correctly understand that the mounting process could actually use any available directory (or is that file system). I assumed (don't say it) that there was something special about /mnt. Not completely understanding /etc/fstab did not help much either. Knowing this now, pg 211 clearly states that one is to mount the floppy on FILE SYSTEM /A. I suspect Greg figured that even a newbie would understand that mounting a floppy on /A would require a file system /A. Maybe I'm too used to the term "directory"!! Or again, maybe there is more info on this earlier in the book that would have clued me in. I think I still believe that the page could supply a little more info (It's so easy to judge other peoples work), but with such a basic concept I can't believe that I didn't just gloss over it somewhere in the previous 12 chapters. I'll keep looking. Thanks all, Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- -----Original Message----- From: Nik Clayton To: Michael P. Sale ; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 1:58 PM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: >> After buying a little sense, I did some searching and came up with the >> /mnt instead. Works just fine now, though I'm still searching for how >> to get the /A set up as well.. > >I don't have the book to hand. I'll skip most of the standard questions, >since I've seen a few replies to your message cover them. > >I think you've missed an important point. When you mount a filesystem >(whether it's from a floppy, Zip or hard disk) you need to have a >pre-existing directory on which to mount it. > >If the directory /a does not exist, you will first need to create it. > > # mkdir /a > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /a > >will probably work. > >I suspect the /mnt directory existed, and the /a directory did not (it's >possible a previous section of the book showed its creation, but, as I >say, I don't have the book to hand). > >/mnt is an informal convention about where to mount things. For example, >I have 1 floppy drive, 1 CDROM and 1 ZIP drive in my machine. I have > > /mnt/floppy > /mnt/cdrom > /mnt/zip > >set up, and mount on to there with commands like > > mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy > mount -t msdos /dev/cd0 /mnt/cdrom > mount -t msdos /dev/sd0s4 /mnt/zip > >as appropriate. > >If the directories don't exist, this happens > > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /non_existant_dir > mount: /non_existant_dir: No such file or directory > >Make sense? > >N >-- >Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache >Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need >Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 19:36:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26194 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:36:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA26141 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:36:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 24507 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1998 02:36:05 -0000 Received: from sb2-80.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.80) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1998 02:36:05 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: "David Wolfskill" , Subject: mtools use Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:33:15 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd6296$aece1600$5006bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David, Good information! I would prefer not to have to sudo everytime I want to mount a floppy! I suppose I should have realized that root was required, but I've been trying to get ppp working (which I have been told requires root) and got dangerously used to boppin around as root. So, now it's off to figure out how to get mtools working........................................... Thanks for the info, Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- -----Original Message----- From: David Wolfskill To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 7:01 PM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >Although it's tangential to the original thread, there was mention of >something that I believe bears further discussion: > >>From: "Michael P. Sale" >>Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:07:06 -0700 > >>>It's a pity you didn't know how incredibly simple this task could >>>have been. All you need is something like: > >>>mcopy /etc/ppp/ppp.conf a: > >>True, though now that I do know it, I'll probably be less likely to go to >>mtools. > >>.... > >>I appreciate the mtools information, but I can't see any advantage to using >>them and no one has given me any. Mounting/unmounting the floppy is as >>easy as writing 2 quick scripts. (Masochistically doen allready) :-) I >>appreciate advice (really, I do!), but without the facts behind the advice >>it's hard for me to justify learning something new when I have so much to >>learn, and I can't see a difference in changing. > >With all due respect, the above illustrates something that deserves a >bit more attention. > >Others have pointed out the need to actually have the mount point (a >directory -- in this case, /A) already created (though I don't recall >anyone mentioning (in this thread) that /a and /A are quite different: >filenames in UNIX are case-sensitive). > >However: using the "mount" command requires super-user (root) >privilege; the mtools approach does not. > >This is non-trivial. > >The design of UNIX is such that it should be possible -- even reasonably >straightforward -- to actually get constructive work done without >requiring the use of root privilege (save possibly via setuid programs). >(Recall that in the early days of UNIX' use at Bell Labs, there were >department secretaries using UNIX systems to type memos & letters using >troff, nroff, and their macro packages.) > >Put another way: the perception that root privilege is needed as a >matter of routine is a symptom of a problem. (For example, I'll use >root privilege, say, to re-build a kernel, or install some software, or >update DNS "zone files"; I do *not* use root for routine tasks.) > >>From some perspectives, the distinction is, I suppose, a nuisance. From >my perspective, the distinction is a "saving grace" -- it helps prevent >my mistakes from damaging the system: as a "normal user" (which I play >most of the time, even though I'm a systems administrator by profession), >all I can damage are my own files (and files or directories with Really >Stupid (tm) permissions set). This is one of the reasons one doesn't >hear much about a "virus" in (reasonably-administered) UNIX systems. It >is a Good Thing. > >Again (since I mentioned it in an earlier missive), if you do need to >use root privilege (as you sometimes do, to administer (but not use!) a >system), I strongly recommend the use of "sudo", and for those files you >change, the use of the RCS commands (ci, co, rcsdiff, rlog, & rcs, >mostly) can be very useful. > >david >-- >David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 21:14:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09577 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09532 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anthony@sohopros.com) Received: from sohopros.com (fwasc31-59.flash.net [209.30.58.59]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA19213; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:13:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352AE97B.EE4A11E5@sohopros.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:05:32 -0500 From: "Anthony E. Coley" Reply-To: anthony@sohopros.com Organization: Student X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael P. Sale" CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd6294$fe4d42c0$5006bccc@708644668> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael P. Sale wrote: > Yes!, Yes!, Yes! > > I was most certainly missing the point. I did not (apparently) correctly > understand that the mounting process could actually use any available > directory (or is that file system). I assumed (don't say it) that there was > something special about /mnt. Not completely understanding /etc/fstab did > not help much either. > > Knowing this now, pg 211 clearly states that one is to mount the floppy on > FILE SYSTEM /A. I suspect Greg figured that even a newbie would understand > that mounting a floppy on /A would require a file system /A. Maybe I'm too > used to the term "directory"!! Or again, maybe there is more info on this > earlier in the book that would have clued me in. > > I think I still believe that the page could supply a little more info (It's > so easy to judge other peoples work), but with such a basic concept I can't > believe that I didn't just gloss over it somewhere in the previous 12 > chapters. I'll keep looking. > > Thanks all, > > Mike > > ---------------------------------------------- > Michael P. Sale > MerchantsNet.Com > mike@merchantsnet.com > www.merchantsnet.com > ---------------------------------------------- > "Humility has no equal in the > battle for knowledge" > -- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nik Clayton > To: Michael P. Sale ; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems > > >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > >> After buying a little sense, I did some searching and came up with the > >> /mnt instead. Works just fine now, though I'm still searching for how > >> to get the /A set up as well.. > > > >I don't have the book to hand. I'll skip most of the standard questions, > >since I've seen a few replies to your message cover them. > > > >I think you've missed an important point. When you mount a filesystem > >(whether it's from a floppy, Zip or hard disk) you need to have a > >pre-existing directory on which to mount it. > > > >If the directory /a does not exist, you will first need to create it. > > > > # mkdir /a > > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /a > > > >will probably work. > > > >I suspect the /mnt directory existed, and the /a directory did not (it's > >possible a previous section of the book showed its creation, but, as I > >say, I don't have the book to hand). > > > >/mnt is an informal convention about where to mount things. For example, > >I have 1 floppy drive, 1 CDROM and 1 ZIP drive in my machine. I have > > > > /mnt/floppy > > /mnt/cdrom > > /mnt/zip > > > >set up, and mount on to there with commands like > > > > mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy > > mount -t msdos /dev/cd0 /mnt/cdrom > > mount -t msdos /dev/sd0s4 /mnt/zip > > > >as appropriate. > > > >If the directories don't exist, this happens > > > > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /non_existant_dir > > mount: /non_existant_dir: No such file or directory > > > >Make sense? > > > >N > >-- > >Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache > >Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need > >Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message So what does your /etc/fstab look like? I'm also wondering about the /A. I have been using the /mnt to mount floppies. Thanks, Anthony .... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 21:20:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA10755 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:20:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA10740 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anthony@sohopros.com) Received: from sohopros.com (fwasc31-59.flash.net [209.30.58.59]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA21777; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:19:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <352AEAE8.943EAC70@sohopros.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:11:37 -0500 From: "Anthony E. Coley" Reply-To: anthony@sohopros.com Organization: Student X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael P. Sale" CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd6294$fe4d42c0$5006bccc@708644668> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael P. Sale wrote: > Yes!, Yes!, Yes! > > I was most certainly missing the point. I did not (apparently) correctly > understand that the mounting process could actually use any available > directory (or is that file system). I assumed (don't say it) that there was > something special about /mnt. Not completely understanding /etc/fstab did > not help much either. > > Knowing this now, pg 211 clearly states that one is to mount the floppy on > FILE SYSTEM /A. I suspect Greg figured that even a newbie would understand > that mounting a floppy on /A would require a file system /A. Maybe I'm too > used to the term "directory"!! Or again, maybe there is more info on this > earlier in the book that would have clued me in. > > I think I still believe that the page could supply a little more info (It's > so easy to judge other peoples work), but with such a basic concept I can't > believe that I didn't just gloss over it somewhere in the previous 12 > chapters. I'll keep looking. > > Thanks all, > > Mike > > ---------------------------------------------- > Michael P. Sale > MerchantsNet.Com > mike@merchantsnet.com > www.merchantsnet.com > ---------------------------------------------- > "Humility has no equal in the > battle for knowledge" > -- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nik Clayton > To: Michael P. Sale ; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems > > >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > >> After buying a little sense, I did some searching and came up with the > >> /mnt instead. Works just fine now, though I'm still searching for how > >> to get the /A set up as well.. > > > >I don't have the book to hand. I'll skip most of the standard questions, > >since I've seen a few replies to your message cover them. > > > >I think you've missed an important point. When you mount a filesystem > >(whether it's from a floppy, Zip or hard disk) you need to have a > >pre-existing directory on which to mount it. > > > >If the directory /a does not exist, you will first need to create it. > > > > # mkdir /a > > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /a > > > >will probably work. > > > >I suspect the /mnt directory existed, and the /a directory did not (it's > >possible a previous section of the book showed its creation, but, as I > >say, I don't have the book to hand). > > > >/mnt is an informal convention about where to mount things. For example, > >I have 1 floppy drive, 1 CDROM and 1 ZIP drive in my machine. I have > > > > /mnt/floppy > > /mnt/cdrom > > /mnt/zip > > > >set up, and mount on to there with commands like > > > > mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy > > mount -t msdos /dev/cd0 /mnt/cdrom > > mount -t msdos /dev/sd0s4 /mnt/zip > > > >as appropriate. > > > >If the directories don't exist, this happens > > > > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /non_existant_dir > > mount: /non_existant_dir: No such file or directory > > > >Make sense? > > > >N > >-- > >Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache > >Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need > >Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message I just figured it out. I need to make a directory /A so the instructions on page 211 will work. So I don't really need to know what you /etc/fstab looks like. It just took me a littel longer to figure out. Thanks, Anthony.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 7 22:09:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA18281 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA18255 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:08:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 6222 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1998 05:08:49 -0000 Received: from sb2-89.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.89) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1998 05:08:49 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: Cc: Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:05:58 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd62ac$04be01a0$5906bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anthony, Very cool. Unfortunatly, now that we have figured it out, some of the more experienced folks (sue and david at a minimum) around here advise against using mount for DOS floppies. You may want to re-read david wolfskills response and get mtools working if it's mainly DOS floppies you are working with. Sue said it was easier to use, and after installing it, I would have to agree. So much to learn......... Take care, Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- -----Original Message----- From: Anthony E. Coley To: Michael P. Sale Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 9:21 PM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >Michael P. Sale wrote: > >> Yes!, Yes!, Yes! >> >> I was most certainly missing the point. I did not (apparently) correctly >> understand that the mounting process could actually use any available >> directory (or is that file system). I assumed (don't say it) that there was >> something special about /mnt. Not completely understanding /etc/fstab did >> not help much either. >> >> Knowing this now, pg 211 clearly states that one is to mount the floppy on >> FILE SYSTEM /A. I suspect Greg figured that even a newbie would understand >> that mounting a floppy on /A would require a file system /A. Maybe I'm too >> used to the term "directory"!! Or again, maybe there is more info on this >> earlier in the book that would have clued me in. >> >> I think I still believe that the page could supply a little more info (It's >> so easy to judge other peoples work), but with such a basic concept I can't >> believe that I didn't just gloss over it somewhere in the previous 12 >> chapters. I'll keep looking. >> >> Thanks all, >> >> Mike >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Michael P. Sale >> MerchantsNet.Com >> mike@merchantsnet.com >> www.merchantsnet.com >> ---------------------------------------------- >> "Humility has no equal in the >> battle for knowledge" >> -- >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nik Clayton >> To: Michael P. Sale ; freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >> >> Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 1:58 PM >> Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >> >> >On Mon, Apr 06, 1998 at 05:24:12PM -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: >> >> After buying a little sense, I did some searching and came up with the >> >> /mnt instead. Works just fine now, though I'm still searching for how >> >> to get the /A set up as well.. >> > >> >I don't have the book to hand. I'll skip most of the standard questions, >> >since I've seen a few replies to your message cover them. >> > >> >I think you've missed an important point. When you mount a filesystem >> >(whether it's from a floppy, Zip or hard disk) you need to have a >> >pre-existing directory on which to mount it. >> > >> >If the directory /a does not exist, you will first need to create it. >> > >> > # mkdir /a >> > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /a >> > >> >will probably work. >> > >> >I suspect the /mnt directory existed, and the /a directory did not (it's >> >possible a previous section of the book showed its creation, but, as I >> >say, I don't have the book to hand). >> > >> >/mnt is an informal convention about where to mount things. For example, >> >I have 1 floppy drive, 1 CDROM and 1 ZIP drive in my machine. I have >> > >> > /mnt/floppy >> > /mnt/cdrom >> > /mnt/zip >> > >> >set up, and mount on to there with commands like >> > >> > mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy >> > mount -t msdos /dev/cd0 /mnt/cdrom >> > mount -t msdos /dev/sd0s4 /mnt/zip >> > >> >as appropriate. >> > >> >If the directories don't exist, this happens >> > >> > # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /non_existant_dir >> > mount: /non_existant_dir: No such file or directory >> > >> >Make sense? >> > >> >N >> >-- >> >Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache >> >Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need >> >Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? >> > >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > I just figured it out. I need to make a directory /A so the instructions on >page 211 will >work. So I don't really need to know what you /etc/fstab looks like. It just >took me a littel >longer to figure out. > >Thanks, > >Anthony.... > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 00:47:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA11175 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:47:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA11156 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:47:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from radan.demon.co.uk ([158.152.75.22]) by post.mail.demon.net id aa2018658; 8 Apr 98 7:36 GMT Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA03522; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:35:23 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04684; Wed, 8 Apr 98 08:35:21 BST Message-Id: <352B28B2.5BDE9363@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 08:35:14 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael P. Sale" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mtools use References: <01bd6296$aece1600$5006bccc@708644668> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael P. Sale wrote: > > David, > > Good information! I would prefer not to have to sudo everytime I want to > mount a floppy! > > I suppose I should have realized that root was required, but I've been > trying to get ppp working (which I have been told requires root) and got > dangerously used to boppin around as root. > > So, now it's off to figure out how to get mtools > working........................................... > > Thanks for the info, > > Mike > ---------------------------------------------- > Michael P. Sale > MerchantsNet.Com > mike@merchantsnet.com > www.merchantsnet.com > ---------------------------------------------- > "Humility has no equal in the > battle for knowledge" > -- Michael, It is possible to avoid having to su to root everytime you wish to mount/umount a floppy (or any drive/filesystem) by using aliases. Adding the following aliases to your .cshrc (if you use the C shell): alias pcfs rsh -l root "mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /A" alias upcfs rsh -l root "umount /A" where is the hostname of your machine, i.e. you are rshelling into yourself. To activate these immediately type 'source .cshrc' at the prompt. Note! This will not work if you have a password set for root (which would probably be the case in a commercial environment, but not necessarily on a home machine). Now when you want to mount your floppy you simply have to type "pcfs", or "upcfs" to umount it, (the choice of pcfs & upcfs is just something I use because /pcfs is the mount point on my Sun at work, you can use any names you want). You can use the same technique to mount/umount your CD-ROM and FAT drives on your hard disk (assuming you have any). A further point to note is that the mount point directory (/A, /pcfs or whatever) doesn't have to be empty. If /A contains files and you mount the floppy on it, then cd to /A, you will see the flopy, not the hard disk. The hard disk files have not been deleted you've just mounted the floppy over the top of them, called over-mounting. When you umount the floppy you will see the hd files again. This is one feature of mount that can be very useful (and is, IMHO, a very serious omission from NT, which MS would have us believe is a UNIX-killer, ha bloody ha). Say you have the latest version of an application installed in /usr/bin/app, and you also have an old version of the same app in /usr/bin/old_app. You have all your paths, aliases, environment variables etc set up for the latest version. If you need to use the old version for any reason you can mount the old dir over the new one: mount /usr/bin/old_app /usr/bin/app Now when you run the app you will be running the old version. Umount /usr/bin/old_app and you are back to the latest version. -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 01:53:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23041 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23031 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04540; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 01:53:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <352B3B0B.53C31CF@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 01:53:31 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0325 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael P. Sale" CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems References: <01bd6294$fe4d42c0$5006bccc@708644668> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org With all due respect to those involved, I'm having a hard time understanding how this question-and-answer thread fits into the stated goals for this list. Since I've obviously missed something I would appreciate someone filling me in. However, since what's done is done (and since I have always said that if a new users list exists questions are inevitable) here's something I hope will clear some things up for some of you. :) Michael P. Sale wrote: > > Yes!, Yes!, Yes! > > I was most certainly missing the point. We've all been there, don't sweat it. > I did not (apparently) correctly > understand that the mounting process could actually use any available > directory (or is that file system). I'm sure that there is a better definition for a file system, however I generally think of a file system as something you can mount and unmount. Yes, I know that's somewhat circular. :) A directory in unix is NOT like a directory in DOS. It's not a place, it's a file that is actually a list of other files if any (including other directories) that exist in that part of the tree. This will be very much oversimplified mostly because I'm not an expert, but here's the gist. Let's say your home directory is /usr/home/cabbage. In /usr/home/cabbage you create a new directory called slaw, and "move" a file called mayo "into" that directory. I put move in quotes because in unix the files don't (generally) go anywhere, just the pointers to them. :) Let's say the mayo file is at inode 3333. An inode is basically where on the physical disk the OS goes to look for stuff. So at inode 3333 is the info contained in the file called mayo, which is now "in" /usr/home/cabbage/slaw. The *file* that contains the "directory" information for what should be in the slaw directory will now contain the info that the OS needs to go to the disk and find the mayo file. Yes, I know that's a bit dense, but bear with me. Now let's look at a directory being used as a mount point, like /mnt/floppy. When you mount the floppy disk there that directory will contain much more information than just a list of files. It will contain information about the physical disk, where it is and how to access it, and lots of complicated stuff I don't understand. :) /mnt/floppy will become a "file system" because it contains not just the info about the files, but HOW to access that info on a completely seperate partition from the file system that the /mnt/floppy file/directory is on (which would almost certainly be the / file system). This makes sense if you really understand the previous paragraph. Directories contain *information* about where and how to find the files that branch below that directory in the tree. They don't contain the files themselves. > I assumed (don't say it) that there was > something special about /mnt. Not completely understanding /etc/fstab did > not help much either. There is a man page for fstab, but you're right, it's intermediate level stuff. > Knowing this now, pg 211 clearly states that one is to mount the floppy on > FILE SYSTEM /A. I suspect Greg figured that even a newbie would understand > that mounting a floppy on /A would require a file system /A. Maybe I'm too > used to the term "directory"!! Or again, maybe there is more info on this > earlier in the book that would have clued me in. As far as I know greg's still on this list, so I'll let him address this point. > I think I still believe that the page could supply a little more info (It's > so easy to judge other peoples work), but with such a basic concept I can't > believe that I didn't just gloss over it somewhere in the previous 12 > chapters. I'll keep looking. It goes back to the old problem of all unix knowledge being circular. It all depends on something else, you just have to fight your way in somewhere. :) I hope this helps, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest *** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 02:48:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA02453 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:48:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA02375 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:48:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA14731; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:48:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980408194800.21697@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:48:00 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Mark Ovens Cc: "Michael P. Sale" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mtools use References: <01bd6296$aece1600$5006bccc@708644668> <352B28B2.5BDE9363@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <352B28B2.5BDE9363@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 08:35:14AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 08:35:14AM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > Note! This will not work if you have a password set for root (which > would probably be the case in a commercial environment, but not > necessarily on a home machine). That sounds extremely dangerous to me. One day someone you've told might convince you how dangerous it is. Meanwhile I hope it doesn't become fashionable among those who are not as well able to appreciate the consequences of having no root password. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 03:24:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08201 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:24:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08196 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 03:24:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA04240; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:15:45 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:15:45 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199804081015.LAA04240@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems In-Reply-To: <199804080158.SAA29024@pau-amma.whistle.com> References: <199804080158.SAA29024@pau-amma.whistle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi - I mount dos file systems in yet another way!: I use the application mount_msdos(8), I happen to have set up some aliases (rather than use /etc/fstab - no good reason for doing it this way) because I use it so frequently: dosfdmount='mount_msdos /dev/fd0 /u/ruth/dos' dossd0mount='mount_msdos /dev/sd0s1 /u/ruth/dos' dossd1mount='mount_msdos /dev/sd1s1 /u/ruth/dos' and I have the directory 'dos' created in my home directory '/u/ruth' mount_msdos has file permissions r_sr_xr_x, owned by root, i.e. it is a 'set uid' program - it takes on the permissions of its owner (root) while running. Some people consider these set uid programs security risks. (ls -l /sbin/mount_msdos to see for yourself) So I have no need to become root first (su or whatever). I find it useful because I also run windows on this machine (the one with freebsd on it), so this allows me to share file systems between the two systems (dossd0mount and dossd1mount). The other command (dosfdmount) I use for floppies. Folks may start to flame my particular arrangement of doing things, all I wanted to do was show another way, not say this is the best I find things are ok 99% of the time, but sometimes I've ended up with files that windows (dos) can't see properly, and thus can't delete. Since I don't care too much about my windows system I live with this Ruth -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 04:37:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA18654 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18577 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:37:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA04306; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:53:05 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:53:05 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199804081053.LAA04306@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mark Ovens Cc: "Michael P. Sale" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mtools use In-Reply-To: <352B28B2.5BDE9363@uk.radan.com> References: <01bd6296$aece1600$5006bccc@708644668> <352B28B2.5BDE9363@uk.radan.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark > Note! This will not work if you have a password set for root (which > would probably be the case in a commercial environment, but not > necessarily on a home machine). > > Now when you want to mount your floppy you simply have to type "pcfs", I do have a password set on root - not an easy one either - and I would recommend that people always have one set - especially 'newbies'!: 1. I connect to the internet off and on, to pick up mail and use the web etc etc, during that time my system is accessable to other hackers on the net 2. being root is potentially dangerous: - "rm * .foo - oops, I typed an extra space...", let alone the other things one can do - so I don't want to encourage myself to be root lightly ruth -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 05:11:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA23067 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:11:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA23044 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from (uk.radan.com) [158.152.75.22] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yMthG-0005ZF-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:11:18 +0100 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA04275; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:11:10 +0100 Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12310; Wed, 8 Apr 98 13:11:08 BST Message-Id: <352B6955.DD52844F@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:11:01 +0100 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake Cc: "Michael P. Sale" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: mtools use References: <01bd6296$aece1600$5006bccc@708644668> <352B28B2.5BDE9363@uk.radan.com> <19980408194800.21697@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 08:35:14AM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > Note! This will not work if you have a password set for root (which > > would probably be the case in a commercial environment, but not > > necessarily on a home machine). > > That sounds extremely dangerous to me. > One day someone you've told might convince you how dangerous it is. > Meanwhile I hope it doesn't become fashionable among those who are not as > well able to appreciate the consequences of having no root password. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more Yes, you are quite correct, we (I) shouldn't be encouraging people, especially new users, to run without a root password. It's just 8 years of working on Unix systems many of which do not have a root password has got me into bad habits, together with never having trashed a system because of it (putting that in writing will probably guarantee I'll do an 'rm -rf /*' as root in the next couple of days ;-) ) has made me complacent. I see someone else has posted a message suggesting making mount_msdos a setuid file which will allow non-root users to run it. Whilst this is still a bit risky it is much better than not having a root password and is an acceptable compromise for mounting floppies. Just don't get carried away and make all executable files setuid. I consider my wrists well & truly slapped :-( -- Mark Ovens *====================================* CNC Apps Engineer | One of the main causes of the fall | Radan Computational Ltd | of the Roman Empire was, that | mailto:marko@uk.radan.com | lacking a zero, they had no way of | | indicating the successful | | termination of their C programs | *====================================* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 05:26:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA25684 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA25652 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA15193; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:26:15 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980408222612.43377@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:26:12 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Mark Ovens Cc: "Michael P. Sale" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: mtools use References: <01bd6296$aece1600$5006bccc@708644668> <352B28B2.5BDE9363@uk.radan.com> <19980408194800.21697@welearn.com.au> <352B6955.DD52844F@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <352B6955.DD52844F@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:11:01PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 01:11:01PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 08:35:14AM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > > Note! This will not work if you have a password set for root (which > > > would probably be the case in a commercial environment, but not > > > necessarily on a home machine). > > > > That sounds extremely dangerous to me. > > One day someone you've told might convince you how dangerous it is. > > Meanwhile I hope it doesn't become fashionable among those who are not as > > well able to appreciate the consequences of having no root password. > > > > Yes, you are quite correct, we (I) shouldn't be encouraging people, > especially new users, to run without a root password. It's just 8 years > of working on Unix systems many of which do not have a root password has > got me into bad habits, together with never having trashed a system > because of it (putting that in writing will probably guarantee I'll do > an 'rm -rf /*' as root in the next couple of days ;-) ) has made me > complacent. In my feeble experience, every time something looks like a great idea that'll make life easier it's a security risk or worse. I tend to play it all very boring these days, just to be sure. There's lots of people out there who could do a lot worse with my system than I do, if I gave them half a chance to try. On the Internet the world sits at your keyboard. > I see someone else has posted a message suggesting making mount_msdos a > setuid file which will allow non-root users to run it. Whilst this is > still a bit risky it is much better than not having a root password and > is an acceptable compromise for mounting floppies. Just don't get > carried away and make all executable files setuid. > > I consider my wrists well & truly slapped :-( :-) No slap intended, I just panicked. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 06:30:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02763 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:30:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pagesz.net (root@nina.pagesz.net [208.194.157.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02752 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jferg@2boot.com) Received: from .pagesz.net (isabella-61.pagesz.net [208.194.157.61]) by pagesz.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA27031 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:30:29 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 98 09:18:59 PDT From: joe ferguson Subject: Doing things as root To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: Chameleon 4.6.3, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Over the years I have found it convenient to keep a root session going in a window (on a windowing system) or in a screen of a multi-screen system. It lets me get to a good root environment quickly and conveniently, yet I don't end up doing everything as root. It is important to have a distinctive shell prompt, though, so that you are VERY AWARE that it is the root session you're using. Of course, it depends on good physical security for your keyboard; you should lock the screen when you leave your work area. ------------------------------------- Name: joe ferguson E-mail: jferg@2boot.com VOICE 919-468-8150 FAX: 919-468-5288 http://www.2boot.com Date: 4/8/98 Time: 9:18:59 AM . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 10:03:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12105 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:03:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.impulse.net (mail.impulse.net [204.188.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA12100 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:03:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@merchantsnet.com) Received: (qmail 12301 invoked from network); 8 Apr 1998 17:03:10 -0000 Received: from sb1-55.impulse.net (HELO 708644668) (204.188.6.55) by mail.impulse.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 1998 17:03:10 -0000 From: "Michael P. Sale" To: "Studded" Cc: Subject: back to the start (WAS Re: mounting floppy file systems) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:00:01 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd630f$c4b99d80$3706bccc@708644668> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Doug, It all helps! You are right, this thread has turned into more of a Q&A than what the "intended" use for the list is supposed to be. It started because I spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure out why I could not get the floppy to mount as /A. I had ended up doing quite a bit of searching before using # mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt At this point, I thought that I had done the correct thing, (learn, learn, learn) and so put out an email that basically said something like: "hey, this command does not work in the book. I had to use /mnt instead of /A as the book recommended. Did I goof and miss something earlier in the book, or is this something that should be brought to the attention of Greg for an Errata." The point of the original post was not to ask why /A did not work ( I thought I could figure that out later ), but to figure out if that section of the book could be tweaked a little for newbies that did not fully understand everything that was happening on pg 211. I wanted fellow newbie opinions before I got slapped by someone for missing something earlier in the docs. In the process, the list ended up answering why /A did not work, thus seting up the runnning thread on mount vs mtools and all the other fun stuff. To finish my part of it, I'll say this. I am still looking for input from newbies concerning that particular section of the docs. If after reading this thread, no one thinks it's an issue, I'll crawl back into my cave and hunker back down for a while. If however, other folks were having trouble with it ( to include pg 211 -214 ) I think it would be nice to put together something that Greg can take a look at and consider putting into the Errata and maybe the next book. Specifically: Address why /A may not work. Again, I now believe that this is a simple concept that I MUST have glossed over, but would still like other opinions. Possibly address why to use mtools vs mount. It sounds simple, but it is not addressed in that chapter ( it may be somewhere else), and as we have seen by the responses, there is more than one way to skin a floppy. Mike loves opinions. Please send them. Thanks again to everyone! Mike ---------------------------------------------- Michael P. Sale MerchantsNet.Com mike@merchantsnet.com www.merchantsnet.com ---------------------------------------------- "Humility has no equal in the battle for knowledge" -- -----Original Message----- From: Studded To: Michael P. Sale Cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 1:53 AM Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems >With all due respect to those involved, I'm having a hard time >understanding how this question-and-answer thread fits into the stated >goals for this list. Since I've obviously missed something I would >appreciate someone filling me in. However, since what's done is done >(and since I have always said that if a new users list exists questions >are inevitable) here's something I hope will clear some things up for >some of you. :) > >Michael P. Sale wrote: >> >> Yes!, Yes!, Yes! >> >> I was most certainly missing the point. > > We've all been there, don't sweat it. > >> I did not (apparently) correctly >> understand that the mounting process could actually use any available >> directory (or is that file system). > > I'm sure that there is a better definition for a file system, however I >generally think of a file system as something you can mount and unmount. >Yes, I know that's somewhat circular. :) A directory in unix is NOT >like a directory in DOS. It's not a place, it's a file that is actually >a list of other files if any (including other directories) that exist in >that part of the tree. This will be very much oversimplified mostly >because I'm not an expert, but here's the gist. > > Let's say your home directory is /usr/home/cabbage. In >/usr/home/cabbage you create a new directory called slaw, and "move" a >file called mayo "into" that directory. I put move in quotes because in >unix the files don't (generally) go anywhere, just the pointers to them. >:) Let's say the mayo file is at inode 3333. An inode is basically >where on the physical disk the OS goes to look for stuff. So at inode >3333 is the info contained in the file called mayo, which is now "in" >/usr/home/cabbage/slaw. The *file* that contains the "directory" >information for what should be in the slaw directory will now contain >the info that the OS needs to go to the disk and find the mayo file. >Yes, I know that's a bit dense, but bear with me. > > Now let's look at a directory being used as a mount point, like >/mnt/floppy. When you mount the floppy disk there that directory will >contain much more information than just a list of files. It will contain >information about the physical disk, where it is and how to access it, >and lots of complicated stuff I don't understand. :) /mnt/floppy will >become a "file system" because it contains not just the info about the >files, but HOW to access that info on a completely seperate partition >from the file system that the /mnt/floppy file/directory is on (which >would almost certainly be the / file system). This makes sense if you >really understand the previous paragraph. Directories contain >*information* about where and how to find the files that branch below >that directory in the tree. They don't contain the files themselves. > >> I assumed (don't say it) that there was >> something special about /mnt. Not completely understanding /etc/fstab did >> not help much either. > > There is a man page for fstab, but you're right, it's intermediate >level stuff. > >> Knowing this now, pg 211 clearly states that one is to mount the floppy on >> FILE SYSTEM /A. I suspect Greg figured that even a newbie would understand >> that mounting a floppy on /A would require a file system /A. Maybe I'm too >> used to the term "directory"!! Or again, maybe there is more info on this >> earlier in the book that would have clued me in. > > As far as I know greg's still on this list, so I'll let him address >this point. > >> I think I still believe that the page could supply a little more info (It's >> so easy to judge other peoples work), but with such a basic concept I can't >> believe that I didn't just gloss over it somewhere in the previous 12 >> chapters. I'll keep looking. > > It goes back to the old problem of all unix knowledge being circular. >It all depends on something else, you just have to fight your way in >somewhere. :) > >I hope this helps, > >Doug > >-- >*** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** >*** Proud operator, designer and maintainer of the world's largest >*** Internet Relay Chat server. 5,328 clients and still growing. >*** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 14:20:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21857 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:20:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (hamellr@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21768 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@polymorph.qcsn.com) Received: from localhost (hamellr@localhost) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17131 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:30:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 14:30:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hamell To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fanatical Software Devotion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As I was reading 'The Complete FreeBSD' by Greg Lehey, I started to reflect upon what I perceive as fanatism in software. I.e. Windows95 is just a rip off of MacOS System 7. Linux is the truly free system, FreeBSD is more stable then Linux, etc. etc. :) Anybody have any insight/personal feelings on this? Any reason why you are a 'fanatic' of one system versus another? :) For me personally, I'm still getting into FreeBSD, but I've always been intrigued by the thought of a real 'multi-tasking' OS. Having jumped from the Atari, to the Commodore 64 world, then to a 386 running Windows 3.1 At that point, my main computer use was always games. Having played with several Macs along the way, I was always less then impressed with the whole mouse idea. (That and most the early Macs I played with never had a color screen.) After being introduced to the world of BBSing I begun to see the need for a multi-tasking system. My first Unix experience was with the college computers dial-up shell accounts. Since then, I've played around with several different UNIX flavors. It seems to me, that *I* am not as fanatical as some people, which I attribute to having been exposed early on in my computing use to several different OSes. But, it still astounds me how many customers I deal with who have to have Win 3.11 or OS/2, or Win95, or nothing. Any comments? :) Rick Hamell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 15:28:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02392 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:28:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02330 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-08.aei.ca [206.186.204.158]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07590; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <352BF9C3.D4B6A61E@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:27:15 -0400 From: KapuT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Hamell CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fanatical Software Devotion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rick Hamell wrote: > As I was reading 'The Complete FreeBSD' by Greg Lehey, I started > to reflect upon what I perceive as fanatism in software. I.e. Windows95 is > just a rip off of MacOS System 7. Linux is the truly free system, FreeBSD > is more stable then Linux, etc. etc. :) Anybody have any insight/personal > feelings on this? Any reason why you are a 'fanatic' of one system versus > another? :) > For me personally, I'm still getting into FreeBSD, but I've always > been intrigued by the thought of a real 'multi-tasking' OS. Having > jumped from the Atari, to the Commodore 64 world, then to a 386 running > Windows 3.1 At that point, my main computer use was always games. Having > played with several Macs along the way, I was always less then impressed > with the whole mouse idea. (That and most the early Macs I played with > never had a color screen.) After being introduced to the world of BBSing I > begun to see the need for a multi-tasking system. My first Unix experience > was with the college computers dial-up shell accounts. Since then, I've > played around with several different UNIX flavors. > It seems to me, that *I* am not as fanatical as some people, which > I attribute to having been exposed early on in my computing use to several > different OSes. But, it still astounds me how many customers I deal with > who have to have Win 3.11 or OS/2, or Win95, or nothing. Any comments? :) > > Rick Hamell Hum, your right, there is a lot of fanatics and what media call "holy war". I have personnaly tryed Win95 and FreeBSD (sorry but I'm lost under FreeBSD :-) Win95 rules the world because its a standard and its in some way *easy*(hum, i dont like it but it came installed on the computer) An OS/2 speciallist say to me than one of the reason OS/2 have lost is because it was not preinstalled on the system. and win95 is *easy* to crash hehehe Its because there is a need of fanatics: why do you think than linux is now the Free system who rulez? There is a lot of fanatics supporter... I have not seen a lot of fanatism with FreeBSD: not a lot of user use it... ***someone know statistic about how many users of FreeBSD?*** ***can we have the Walnut creek statistics*** And there is the secret war with other free-OS (no one will acknowledge you than Linux take parts of the market of FreeBSD-or OpenBSD-NetBSD and other...) I think than right now, FreeBSD is for advanced user, admin and servers operators. Linux is for simple user: it take the win95 market. This is why FreeBSD do not rules the Free market. If you want than ordinary user use FreeBSD: change it for a more easy system for newbie. Like changing the documentation... I think than FreeBSD will loose if they continue in that way... Cya KapuT Sorry for my bad bad bad so ugly english! -- --------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 8 19:30:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03097 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:30:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo30.mx.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.74] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02908 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 19:29:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ABAMFICI@aol.com) Received: from ABAMFICI@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id HLQGa01988 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:26:08 -0500 (EDT) From: ABAMF ICI Message-ID: <719dbe2b.352c31c2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:26:08 EDT To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: IP Masquerade? | Proxy Server? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay I have 2 computers. One running Win95 and one running another MUCH better o/s.... any guesses? :) Anyways, (I grew up in New Jersey, please excuse my extra S's) I have both linked together via an ethernet cable and all is working well there. they can ping each other (oh boy!!!) and everything else. ftp, www, telnet, e-mail, etc. What I want to do is have the win95 computer access the internet via ethernet feeding off of the freebsd's dial up connection to my isp. Sounds pointless but soon that modem in the freebsd comp will be replaced by a cable modem and I want to get this stuff down now. Well my question is, what is this kind of networking called? Or what do I need? I've gathered that what I want to do is possible either via setting up a proxy on the freebsd machine OR using ip masquerading. I'm rather confused...any help? Just telling me which I should look up would be fine, I don't need a whole tutorial reply, I can figure it out on my own once I know what to look for. Thanks in advance, Kevin :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 9 00:34:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA15829 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:34:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA15820 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:34:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15488; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:04:15 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA14290; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:04:05 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Message-ID: <19980409170404.03517@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:04:04 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Rick Hamell , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fanatical Software Devotion References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Rick Hamell on Wed, Apr 08, 1998 at 02:30:51PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 8 April 1998 at 14:30:51 -0700, Rick Hamell wrote: > > As I was reading 'The Complete FreeBSD' by Greg Lehey, I started > to reflect upon what I perceive as fanatism in software. I.e. Windows95 is > just a rip off of MacOS System 7. Linux is the truly free system, FreeBSD > is more stable then Linux, etc. etc. :) Anybody have any insight/personal > feelings on this? Any reason why you are a 'fanatic' of one system versus > another? :) Good question, one I'm not going to try to answer. I hope, though, that you didn't get the impression that the book was partisan. If you did, please reply privately and tell me where and how. Greg -- Greg Lehey LEMIS grog@lemis.com PO Box 460 Tel: +61-8-8388-8286 Echunga SA 5153 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Australia finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 9 05:42:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA18960 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 05:42:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com (ns2.ibo.ch [194.191.169.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA18953 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 05:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com) From: neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com Received: from mailhub by i3se0101.is.chbs.ciba.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Mar96-0208PM) id AA22882; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:42:21 +0200 Received: from pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs (pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs [168.246.161.82]) by mta3.is.chbs (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20601; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:42:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199804091242.OAA20601@mta3.is.chbs> Received: by pp-banzai-chbs.cp.chbs with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2SYT28PQ>; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:42:37 +0200 To: ABAMFICI@aol.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: IP Masquerade? | Proxy Server? Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:42:20 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Check out http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html for the PPP user mode tutorial. It tells you how to configure your FreeBSD box as a router for IP packets. I've done this and its pretty painless, just make sure you modem is configured correctly first. Right now I have 4 Win95 machines using my FreeBSD box as an Internet gateway using IP Aliasing. -- Neal Tillery -- neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com > ---------- > From: ABAMF ICI[SMTP:ABAMFICI@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 9:26 PM > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: IP Masquerade? | Proxy Server? > > Well my question is, what is this kind of networking called? Or what > do I > need? I've gathered that what I want to do is possible either via > setting up > a proxy on the freebsd machine OR using ip masquerading. I'm rather > confused...any help? Just telling me which I should look up would be > fine, I > don't need a whole tutorial reply, I can figure it out on my own once > I know > what to look for. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 9 06:35:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA26018 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 06:35:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay03.indigo.ie (relay03.indigo.ie [194.125.133.227]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA26007 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 06:35:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from emmetor@indigo.ie) Received: (qmail 22526 messnum 46274 invoked from network[194.125.146.137/ts01-10.cork.indigo.ie]); 9 Apr 1998 13:35:23 -0000 Received: from ts01-10.cork.indigo.ie (HELO indigo.ie) (194.125.146.137) by relay03.indigo.ie (qp 22526) with SMTP; 9 Apr 1998 13:35:23 -0000 Message-ID: <352CCF3C.D175458C@indigo.ie> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:38:05 +0100 From: dayak Reply-To: emmetor@indigo.ie Organization: sfdgsdf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fanatical Software Devotion [Slightly off topic ] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rick Hamell wrote: > As I was reading 'The Complete FreeBSD' by Greg Lehey, I started > to reflect upon what I perceive as fanatism in software. I.e. Windows95 is > just a rip off of MacOS System 7. Linux is the truly free system, FreeBSD > is more stable then Linux, etc. etc. :) Anybody have any insight/personal > feelings on this? Any reason why you are a 'fanatic' of one system versus > another? :) > Well, look what I found (about Linux) in my mailbox this morning..... :)http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C20863%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs Anyone have any comments on this???? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 9 16:37:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03319 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:37:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from l-p-b-central.demon.co.uk (l-p-b-central.demon.co.uk [193.237.8.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03306 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from russ@l-p-b-central.demon.co.uk) Received: from demon.net (localhost.demon.co.uk [127.0.0.1]) by l-p-b-central.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA00576 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:22:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from russ@l-p-b-central.demon.co.uk) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:22:00 +0100 (BST) From: Russell Paton Message-Id: <199804080722.IAA00576@l-p-b-central.demon.co.uk> Subject: Test To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a test message. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 9 18:15:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA16605 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:15:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA16573 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id SAA28288 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:15:12 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:15:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fanatical Software Devotion [Slightly off topic ] In-Reply-To: <352CCF3C.D175458C@indigo.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Well, look what I found (about Linux) in my mailbox this morning..... > :)http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C20863%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs > > Anyone have any comments on this???? heh, yeah..great eh? In an wearlier news.com report, they were saying that netscape's new support in linux would only hurt the company, cuz linux isn't the main stream, and all this other bs. This one hits the mark, navigator has joined an eleet crowed. Two senarios, this either sends netscape deeper into hell, or really gives NT some compitition. Unix-flavors are getting more support as many users finally have enough hard drive space/hate Win95-NT control/and remember the large user control dos had (which of course unix multiplies hundredfold) to start going towards adding unix to their system (along with BeOS [sub-unix-flavor] and others). If I'm wrong bout this, well then its only me, but I don't care. Netscape's move will urge corperations to keep unix, and the crap that IE forces on NT (along with the fact that the same number of bugs found in Windows as in unix are only threatening to windows because windows has a larger user group, and is therefor exploited far more). The government labs (ie. LLNL) are getting bombarded with win-nukes/sspings/etc that kill NT, while unix hardly gets hit. Netscapes move was smart, otherwise they would slowly die as IE took more ground and the government stayed as out of it entirely. Think about it, if the justice department makes any sweeping moves on MS, it will only hurt the industry, and only a long term plan will do any good. Otherwise, all they'll do is charge MS millions (like the cigerete companies) and let them get away screwing everyone, legally. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 9 20:06:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12444 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12415 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA11475; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:05:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:05:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: ruth moulton cc: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mounting floppy file systems In-Reply-To: <199804081015.LAA04240@muswell.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, ruth moulton wrote: > > Hi - I mount dos file systems in yet another way!: > > I use the application mount_msdos(8), I happen to have set > up some aliases (rather than use /etc/fstab - no good reason for doing > it this way) because I use it so frequently: Just FYI, mount_msdos is what mount calls if you use mount -t msdos. Just like if you mount -t cd9660, it calls mount_cd9660, mount -t nfs calls mount_nfs, etc. So there's no difference between mount_msdos and mount -t msdos. mount_msdos is the only one that defaults to being setuid. IIRC, that's because it was deemed the one most likely to be often used by the non-admins. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 10 17:28:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24000 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23985 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:28:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jasonc@concentric.net) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id UAA15093; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from k6-200 (ts004d01.lan-mi.concentric.net [206.173.98.85]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.8.8) id UAA29980; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004401bd64e0$bd7a4240$023aa8c0@k6-200> From: "Jason" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: IP Masquerade? | Proxy Server? Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:28:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there a way to do this through an internet connection on a second network card? The problem I have here is that I need to be able to make all my computers work under a single IP. I have on running a proxy under win95 right now but there has to be a transparent way to do this under FreeBSD. I have one computer with two network cards and all the others with just one. The router I pass through to get to the internet filters all but my one mac address on all ethernet packets I try to send. So I need something to spoof this router into thinking everything is coming from the same mac address Thanks Jason -----Original Message----- From: neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com To: ABAMFICI@aol.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 8:43 AM Subject: RE: IP Masquerade? | Proxy Server? >Check out http://www.freebsd.org/tutorials/ppp/ppp.html for the PPP user >mode tutorial. It tells you how to configure your FreeBSD box as a >router for IP packets. I've done this and its pretty painless, just >make sure you modem is configured correctly first. Right now I have 4 >Win95 machines using my FreeBSD box as an Internet gateway using IP >Aliasing. > >-- Neal Tillery >-- neal.tillery@cp.novartis.com > >> ---------- >> From: ABAMF ICI[SMTP:ABAMFICI@aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 9:26 PM >> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG >> Subject: IP Masquerade? | Proxy Server? >> > > >> Well my question is, what is this kind of networking called? Or what >> do I >> need? I've gathered that what I want to do is possible either via >> setting up >> a proxy on the freebsd machine OR using ip masquerading. I'm rather >> confused...any help? Just telling me which I should look up would be >> fine, I >> don't need a whole tutorial reply, I can figure it out on my own once >> I know >> what to look for. >> >> > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 10 17:55:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29982 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:55:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29955 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10318; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:54:28 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980411105425.37883@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:54:25 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Jason Cc: neal.tillery@cp.Novartis.com, ABAMFICI@aol.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP Masquerade? | Proxy Server? References: <004401bd64e0$bd7a4240$023aa8c0@k6-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <004401bd64e0$bd7a4240$023aa8c0@k6-200>; from Jason on Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 08:28:23PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Apr 10, 1998 at 08:28:23PM -0400, Jason wrote: > Is there a way to do this through an internet connection on a second network > card? The problem I have here is that I need to be able to make all my > computers work under a single IP. I have on running a proxy under win95 > right now but there has to be a transparent way to do this under FreeBSD. I > have one computer with two network cards and all the others with just one. > The router I pass through to get to the internet filters all but my one mac > address on all ethernet packets I try to send. So I need something to spoof > this router into thinking everything is coming from the same mac address This is getting a little beyond the scope of a nontechnical discussion among newbies. If the documentation and the tutorial mentioned don't cover your question, then a few other people will be looking for the answer too, whether they are newbies or not. They'll expect to see this asked and answered on freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, where questions at all levels are usually dealt with. You don't have to subscribe to freebsd-questions to send a question (and get an answer by email) but you might have further questions as you work on this, in which case you might find it more convenient to subscribe to freebsd-questions anyway. You can get a few more ideas from http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies Good luck! -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 10 19:47:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21937 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21919 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:47:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ABAMFICI@aol.com) Received: from ABAMFICI@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id HSJSa22242 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:46:26 -0500 (EDT) From: ABAMF ICI Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:46:26 EDT To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: I need a backwards computer dictionary.... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If my computer on 123.123.123.123 has the name foobar.com, how can I get someone who accesses www.foobar.com to just be redirected or see whatever is on foobar.com? Or what's this term called? I don't think I'm being very clear, let me try again... I have two computers on my little network with IP #s 123.123.123.122 and 123.123.123.123. 122 has all the www stuff on it and is the host computer or whatever. 123 has all the ftp stuff on it and uses aliases to be connected to the internet. when someone goes to www.foobar.com I want the request to hit 122 and have it just throw out the page. right now it only works when someone goes to http://foobar.com when someone hits ftp.foobar.com I want it to redirect to 123....I don't need the whole method, but it would be nice if it's fairly simple. Just the name would be good. Thanks in advance, Kevin :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 10 20:34:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA27720 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA27712 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:34:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA10894; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:34:21 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980411133414.35265@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:34:14 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (11 April 1998) This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies. We cover any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, promoting FreeBSD among our friends, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook317.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is currently being put together. It will include books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 11 00:29:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27470 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:29:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27464 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:28:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA18805; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:28:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 02:28:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" Reply-To: questions@FreeBSD.ORG To: ABAMF ICI cc: "Matthew D. Fuller" Subject: Re: I need a backwards computer dictionary.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, ABAMF ICI wrote: > If my computer on 123.123.123.123 has the name foobar.com, how can I get > someone who accesses www.foobar.com to just be redirected or see whatever is > on foobar.com? Or what's this term called? I don't think I'm being very > clear, let me try again... > > I have two computers on my little network with IP #s 123.123.123.122 and > 123.123.123.123. 122 has all the www stuff on it and is the host computer > or whatever. 123 has all the ftp stuff on it and uses aliases to be connected > to the internet. when someone goes to www.foobar.com I want the request to > hit 122 and have it just throw out the page. right now it only works when > someone goes to http://foobar.com when someone hits ftp.foobar.com I want > it to redirect to 123....I don't need the whole method, but it would be nice > if it's fairly simple. Just the name would be good. Just the name would be DNS. Something like $ORIGIN com. foobar IN A 123.123.123.122 $ORIGIN foobar.com. www IN CNAME foobar.com. ftp IN A 123.123.123.123 in your DNS records, off the top of my head, and assuming proper SOA records. That's CERTAINLY not a newbie topic, though. I'll direct followups to -questions. > Thanks in advance, > Kevin > :) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message