From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 02:22:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA22903 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22888 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:22:38 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (dialA39.aei.ca [206.123.6.77]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA03909; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3539C236.7DBCEEC0@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 05:21:58 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <35397B1C.F90974D8@aei.ca> <19980419144206.16618@welearn.com.au> <3539906F.AD54E6BD@aei.ca> <19980419162514.36530@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > OK, so let us know where it is, what it's called and what hours you are > likely to be there. At least that's a start. Then other people can say what > time they can be there, and we might have enough people to keep it open most > of the time and we can tell people about FreeBSD, maybe answer some easy > questions, tell them where to go, stuff like that. How does that sound? > > If there's a few other people interested, I'd like to come along too! > All you have to do is organise it and make it easy for people to help. > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more Yeah, not just me ;-) So, someone helse read this mailling list! Anyone interested? ports: ircii 4.4, tkirc channel: #freebsd-newbies server: efnet Basic ircii command (exemple...) /server irc.ais.net 6674 /join #freebsd-newbies /leave #freebsd-newbies /quit /help My nick is KapuT Hum, anyone wana fix some hour? It can be one hour where we can all real-time exchange. Dont know, because we are not at the same time :-/ Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 03:38:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01521 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 03:38:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from const. (willow20.verinet.com [199.45.181.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01516; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:38:32 GMT (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: (from allenc@localhost) by const. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10123; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:39:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 04:39:25 -0600 (MDT) From: allen campbell Message-Id: <199804191039.EAA10123@const.> To: bear@pacificnet.net, malartre@aei.ca Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <35398112.5150D78@aei.ca> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet > and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? > and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) > > hehe > cya u are not in irc anmore & can stop tying like this^Hs!!! :) THANX To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 08:36:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03535 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from espresso.2xtreme.net (espresso.2xtreme.net [208.147.33.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03504 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:36:44 GMT (envelope-from mrremedy@2xtreme.net) Received: from dkhill-mobl ([209.21.55.174]) by espresso.2xtreme.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34955U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA211 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:36:38 -0700 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:38:39 -0700 Message-ID: <01BD6B6E.8D324B20.mrremedy@2xtreme.net> From: Mr Remedy Reply-To: "mrremedy@2xtreme.net" To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Need directions to list for DNS and Update Stuff. Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:38:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Can some one send me the name of the appropriate list for help with building an OS update from the repository and/or debugging DNS issues? Thanks guys.. :) -David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 11:44:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15565 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:44:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15515; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:44:26 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrE-07.aei.ca [206.186.204.207]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13002; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353A45F3.732B8ECE@aei.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:44:03 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: allen campbell CC: bear@pacificnet.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <199804191039.EAA10123@const.> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org allen campbell wrote: > > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet > > and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? > > and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) > > > > hehe > > cya > > u are not in irc anmore & can stop tying like this^Hs!!! :) > THANX > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message doh :-) hehe Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 14:21:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14086 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:21:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13956 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:21:15 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA20548; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:21:04 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980420072101.16709@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:21:01 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "mrremedy@2xtreme.net" Cc: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Need directions to list for DNS and Update Stuff. References: <01BD6B6E.8D324B20.mrremedy@2xtreme.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <01BD6B6E.8D324B20.mrremedy@2xtreme.net>; from Mr Remedy on Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 08:38:38AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (Sorry, I can't quote because your message's lines didn't wrap) FreeBSD-questions@freebsd.org seems your best bet for this one. If not, they'd be happy to redirect you from there anyway. Good luck! :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 15:09:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA23168 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:09:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23060 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:08:28 GMT (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from arwen.myst.no (pc19.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.19]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id AAA18394 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:08:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by arwen.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA00395 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:52:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: arwen.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:52:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@arwen.myst.no To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NFS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, does there exist a good ground-level tutorial on NFS? -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 15:21:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24861 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:21:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24844 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:21:19 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA20734; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:20:37 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980420082034.13542@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:20:34 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Haavard Vaagstoel Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Haavard Vaagstoel on Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 06:52:28PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 06:52:28PM +0200, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: > Hello, > > does there exist a good ground-level tutorial on NFS? The only one I recall seeing is a chapter on NFS in the book The Complete FreeBSD by Greg Lehey (http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/bsdbook2.htm) Has anyone seen another at this level? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 16:32:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08495 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:32:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA08371 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:31:53 GMT (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk [131.111.212.250] by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yR3Yl-0004Gg-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:31:43 +0100 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:31:46 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: User friendly system config program? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! On SCO Unix V there is a menu-based system configuration program, sysadmsh (scoadmin on SCO OpenServer). Is there an equivalent in or available for FreeBSD? Ben Cohen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 16:56:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13866 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:56:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13827 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:56:47 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21081; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:56:29 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980420095626.36066@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:56:26 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User friendly system config program? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Ben Cohen on Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 12:31:46AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 12:31:46AM +0100, Ben Cohen wrote: > Hi! > > On SCO Unix V there is a menu-based system configuration program, sysadmsh > (scoadmin on SCO OpenServer). Is there an equivalent in or available for > FreeBSD? This is an area that various people are working on at the moment, but I don't know how soon we'll see anything. Depending on what you want to do, /stand/sysinstall might help. I don't use it myself so I can't say much about it. We tend to spend a lot of time using text editors on config files (hence my sig) which has advantages and disadvantages. For example, if you pull /etc/rc.conf into your favourite text editor, you can see and change a whole lot of stuff all at once, quicker than working your way through a series of menus. You have to be comfortable using a text editor first, though. Of course, both methods require you to know what you're doing. For me, menus give a dangerous impression that it's easy to do without understanding, and at the same time they limit what I can do when I do understand. My view, however, seems to be in the minority these days :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Apr 19 17:03:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA15266 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:03:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA15235 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:02:44 GMT (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk [131.111.212.250] by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yR42X-0004ib-00; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:02:29 +0100 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:02:32 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: Sue Blake cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: User friendly system config program? In-Reply-To: <19980420095626.36066@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > On SCO Unix V there is a menu-based system configuration program, sysadmsh > > (scoadmin on SCO OpenServer). Is there an equivalent in or available for > > FreeBSD? > Depending on what you want to do, /stand/sysinstall might help. I don't use > it myself so I can't say much about it. Yes---/stand/sysinstall is OK for some things (e.g. choosing and extracting packages) but not brilliant for general configuration. > We tend to spend a lot of time using text editors on config files (hence my > sig) which has advantages and disadvantages. For example, if you pull > /etc/rc.conf into your favourite text editor, you can see and change a whole > lot of stuff all at once, quicker than working your way through a series of > menus. You have to be comfortable using a text editor first, though. > > Of course, both methods require you to know what you're doing. For me, menus > give a dangerous impression that it's easy to do without understanding, and > at the same time they limit what I can do when I do understand. My view, > however, seems to be in the minority these days :-) I agree with you on this---although the SCO sysadmsh is reasonably impressive in this respect. (But SCO is slightly different from FreeBSD.) Thanks... Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 01:28:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA05585 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:28:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05518 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:27:59 GMT (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18564; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <353B070A.110C3DFC@san.rr.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:27:54 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malartre CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <35398112.5150D78@aei.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Malartre wrote: > > Joey Garcia wrote: > > > Effnet is too much of a pain....we'd have to worry about channel takeovers > > and BS like that. Wouldnt Dalnet's services be more suitable? > > > > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet > and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? > and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) Channel takeovers are not dealt with at all by IRC Operators on EFnet except on very rare occasions. I won't belabour the point, but DALnet offers a lot of advantages including nick and channel registration services. There is actually a pretty lively crowd on dalnet #freebsd already, although there is room for a new channel if y'all so desire. Enjoy, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 04:53:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA07966 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07957 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:53:20 GMT (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA01077; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:49:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:49:20 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199804201149.MAA01077@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Sue Blake Cc: Haavard Vaagstoel , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS In-Reply-To: <19980420082034.13542@welearn.com.au> References: <19980420082034.13542@welearn.com.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Disposition-notification-to: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Also Unix System Administration Handbook - Ch 17 & Distributed Systems - Concepts & Design, George F. Coulouris and Jean Dollimore, Published Addison Wesley in '98 has quite a lot of explanation about how it works. You could check out Sun's web site too, no idea if they have some good pointers or not... ruth Sue Blake writes: > On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 06:52:28PM +0200, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: > > Hello, > > > > does there exist a good ground-level tutorial on NFS? > > The only one I recall seeing is a chapter on NFS in the book The Complete > FreeBSD by Greg Lehey (http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/bsdbook2.htm) > > Has anyone seen another at this level? > > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 04:59:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08749 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:59:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08727 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:59:03 GMT (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id MAA01121; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:57:34 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:57:34 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199804201157.MAA01121@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Rainer M Duffner Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fanatical Software Devotion In-Reply-To: References: <35333078.833A3C76@uk.radan.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rainer , I know this doesn't completely answer your question, but I have ordered direct from Walnut Creek by phone a couple of times (from London), using my credit card, and found them helpful and efficient. (when life became too short to try to get my local book shops to order it for me). for heavier things like books postage is a problem - fast and expensive or long and cheap. I think what I dialed was 00 1 800 786 9907 or 00 1 510 674 0783 they're about 8 hours behind us. ruth > On Tue 14 Apr, Mark Ovens wrote: > > Greg Lehey wrote: > > [something about his book] > > > > > Hi, > > Can anyone tell me who sells or distributes this book in the UK. I > > haven't been able to find a copy. > > You _should_ be able to order it from any local bookshop. > It's not that trivial for the bookshop, as it may have to be ordered via > a specialised distributor, but in theory, it shouldn't make too > many problems. > Just pester them long enough ;-) > [I had to pay some money in advance here, and I don't know if they can > get me the version without CD-ROMs]. > > cheers, > Rainer > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | > | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | > |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | > |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | > | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 06:19:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17687 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:19:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.eunet.es (goya.eunet.es [193.127.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17646 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:19:35 GMT (envelope-from jms@caja-granada.es) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by relay.eunet.es (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25693 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:13:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from unknown (jms [130.130.105.3]) by mulhacen.caja-granada.es (8.6.12/4.4) with SMTP id PAA04216 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:12:33 +0200 Message-ID: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Jose Megias Sanchez" Subject: Two routes to the same net, is it possible? Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 15:16:48 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA17647 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have one net that can be reached by two machines, how I can to include two static routes to the same net?. I have the net 10 than can be reache by the machines 130.130.130.1 and 130.130.10.1 Regards. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 08:02:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08687 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:02:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from login-2.eunet.no (0@login-2.eunet.no [193.71.71.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA08527 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:01:56 GMT (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) Received: from arwen.myst.no (pc56.bergen-pm2-1.eunet.no [193.75.12.63]) by login-2.eunet.no (8.8.8/8.8.3/Torbjorn) with ESMTP id RAA04609; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:01:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (hjv@localhost) by arwen.myst.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA00250; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:34:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from havardjv@gudmund.vgs.no) X-Authentication-Warning: arwen.myst.no: hjv owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:34:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Haavard Vaagstoel X-Sender: hjv@arwen.myst.no To: ruth moulton cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS In-Reply-To: <199804201149.MAA01077@muswell.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, ruth moulton wrote: > You could check out Sun's web site too, no idea if they have > some good pointers or not... Maybe they have, and the other sources you mention are probably great for general NFS documentation. But I'm afraid I might need something a little more specific to FreeBSD. Could someone on the list tell me a few basic things, perhaps? For instance, what would be the correct command to mount the /usr directory on one host under /foo on the other host? Do I need to define what parts of my system that it shall be possible to NFS mount? If so, where? -- Haavard Vaagstoel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 08:53:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19272 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:53:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19142 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:52:47 GMT (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA19275 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019273; Mon Apr 20 08:51:49 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA22760 for newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804201551.IAA22760@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:20:34 +1000 >From: Sue Blake >On Sun, Apr 19, 1998 at 06:52:28PM +0200, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: >> does there exist a good ground-level tutorial on NFS? >The only one I recall seeing is a chapter on NFS in the book The Complete >FreeBSD by Greg Lehey (http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/bsdbook2.htm) >Has anyone seen another at this level? Not sure about the "level" reference, but a fairly well-known (if a little "dated" -- April, 1992) NFS reference in the general UNIX commnity is Hal Stern's book _Managing NFS and NIS_ (O'Reilly & Associates -- http://www.ora.com/). "Datedness" in question refers, among other things, to the lack of discussion of NFS V3 (since it didn't exist when the book was written. Also, the book tends to be SunOS 4.x-specific (since Solaris 2.x was either quite new or hadn't reached First Customer Ship yet (sorry; my memory of that time isn't too clear on the issue), and since the author was (is?) a Sun employee, and since the book pre-dated the "ubiquity" of NFS & NIS in the computing world). If a new edition comes out, I plan to buy it.... :-) david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 08:56:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA20055 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from muswell.demon.co.uk (muswell.demon.co.uk [158.152.10.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19839 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:55:43 GMT (envelope-from ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk) Received: (from ruth@localhost) by muswell.demon.co.uk (8.8.7/8.6.12) id QAA00224; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:33:55 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:33:55 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199804201533.QAA00224@muswell.demon.co.uk> From: ruth moulton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Haavard Vaagstoel Cc: ruth moulton , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS In-Reply-To: References: <199804201149.MAA01077@muswell.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Cc: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Disposition-notification-to: ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Haavard the first reference I gave you (the UNIX System Administrators Handbook, 2nd Edition, by Evi Nemeth, Garth Snyder, Scott Seebass, Trant R. Hein, published Prentice Hall) includes explicit instructions for BSD unix, which are usually good enough for FreeBSD, at least the commands will most likely be the same, which means you can look up the man pages (man(1) command) to find any differences. Personally my NFS knowledge is rusty, so I'd only look in the book to find you some answers! ruth > On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, ruth moulton wrote: > > > You could check out Sun's web site too, no idea if they have > > some good pointers or not... > > Maybe they have, and the other sources you mention are probably great for > general NFS documentation. But I'm afraid I might need something a little > more specific to FreeBSD. > > Could someone on the list tell me a few basic things, perhaps? For > instance, what would be the correct command to mount the /usr directory on > one host under /foo on the other host? Do I need to define what parts of > my system that it shall be possible to NFS mount? If so, where? > -- > Haavard Vaagstoel > -- ================================================ Ruth Moulton ruth@muswell.demon.co.uk Consultant 65 Tetherdown, London N.10 1NH, UK Tel:+44 181 883 5823 -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 09:41:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03910 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:41:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enterprise.tht.net (root@tht.net [209.47.145.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA03527; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:40:16 GMT (envelope-from beef@tht.net) Received: from localhost by enterprise.tht.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:39:08 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Mar-7) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:39:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lanny Baron " To: Joey Garcia cc: Malartre , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I made on on the undernet already. Just need some more users to get X/W bot. And of course some ops. Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 09:45:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05341 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enterprise.tht.net (root@tht.net [209.47.145.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA05240; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:45:26 GMT (envelope-from beef@tht.net) Received: from localhost by enterprise.tht.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:44:28 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Mar-7) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:44:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lanny Baron " To: Malartre cc: Joey Garcia , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. In-Reply-To: <35398112.5150D78@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Malartre wrote: > Joey Garcia wrote: > > > Effnet is too much of a pain....we'd have to worry about channel takeovers > > and BS like that. Wouldnt Dalnet's services be more suitable? > > > > I dont think so: the main channel is on effnet. There is no one on undernet > and dalnet :-/And who wish to takeover freebsd-newbies? > and if that appen, find som ircop who run freebsd ;-)))))))))))))))) > > hehe > cya > Malartre > > > Joey Garcia > > > > =================================================== > > Joseph Garcia > > Downey, CA > > bear@pacificnet.net > > "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." > > =================================================== > > > > On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Malartre wrote: > > > > > Someone is interested to give bots for a #freebsd-newbies channel on > > > effnet? > > > > > > I think it should be a place for (maybe stupid) question about any > > > newbie-related-thing > > > > > > anyone interested to support it? > > > cya > > > Malartre > > > > > > (sorry for the cross-mailling on 2 mailling list) > > > > > > > > > -- > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 > > > www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project > > > Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5-RELEASE I don't see whats wrong with the undernet or dalnet. With the amount of people that use FreeBSD, it doesn't hurt to have a #freebsd-newbies in as many irc nets as possible. If anything it certainly make the exposure of FreeBSD much more visible. Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 10:03:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11085 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10898 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:02:28 GMT (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA20100; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020094; Mon Apr 20 10:01:07 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA23122; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:01:07 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804201701.KAA23122@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk, sue@welearn.com.au Subject: Re: User friendly system config program? Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:56:26 +1000 >From: Sue Blake >We tend to spend a lot of time using text editors on config files (hence my >sig) which has advantages and disadvantages. For example, if you pull >/etc/rc.conf into your favourite text editor, you can see and change a whole >lot of stuff all at once, quicker than working your way through a series of >menus. You have to be comfortable using a text editor first, though. >Of course, both methods require you to know what you're doing. For me, menus >give a dangerous impression that it's easy to do without understanding, and >at the same time they limit what I can do when I do understand. My view, >however, seems to be in the minority these days :-) And using text files makes it easy to use the usual change-control mechanisms (such as RCS) to track changes. Although this could, I expect, be done with menus, it is something that I haven't often (read: "ever") seen implemented. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 12:21:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19992 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from okeefe.bestweb.net (okeefe.bestweb.net [209.94.100.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19927 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:21:29 GMT (envelope-from prw@bestweb.net) Received: from turner (turner.bestweb.net [209.94.100.33]) by okeefe.bestweb.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA03556 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ad01bd6c91$26e8f160$21645ed1@turner.bestweb.net> From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:18:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You could try GalaxyNet (http://www.galaxynet.org). It's a smaller network with around 3,000 users. I'm administrator on one of the servers there, and services (ChanServ - Q , NickServ - NS) would be no problem. Paul. - > I don't see whats wrong with the undernet or dalnet. With the amount of >people that use FreeBSD, it doesn't hurt to have a #freebsd-newbies in as >many irc nets as possible. If anything it certainly make the exposure of >FreeBSD much more visible. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 13:55:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15375 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:55:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15228 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:55:20 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (dialA1f.aei.ca [206.123.6.51]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13009; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:54:59 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Wilson CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: <01ad01bd6c91$26e8f160$21645ed1@turner.bestweb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, now we have some people interested hehe ;-) So, the name is choice. Just find what server to use. I was thinking about Efnet becose of more people. But there is an admin on galaxynet who do an offer. An another who want it on Undernet. And Doug say than Dalnet should be the right place. Now we just have to choice. Efnet -->people Undernet -->W or X Dalnet -->No take over galaxynet --> a friendly admin ;-) Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 16:45:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28239 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:45:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA27961 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:44:55 GMT (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA01987; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:44:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:44:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Haavard Vaagstoel cc: ruth moulton , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Haavard Vaagstoel wrote: > Maybe they have, and the other sources you mention are probably great for > general NFS documentation. But I'm afraid I might need something a little > more specific to FreeBSD. > > Could someone on the list tell me a few basic things, perhaps? For > instance, what would be the correct command to mount the /usr directory on > one host under /foo on the other host? Do I need to define what parts of > my system that it shall be possible to NFS mount? If so, where? Well, man mount covers it pretty well. Basically: # mount -t nfs nfsserver:/usr /foo Make sure to enable 'NFS Clent' in /etc/rc.conf on the client machine, and NFS Server on the server machine. Look the the man page for /etc/exports for the format on it; it should be on the NFS server machine, and it specifies which filesystems can be exported and to which clients they can be exported. > -- > Haavard Vaagstoel *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | FreeBSD; the way computers were meant to be | * "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is * | that I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet."| * fullermd@futuresouth.com :-} MAtthew Fuller * | http://keystone.westminster.edu/~fullermd | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 17:48:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10942 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.bc.rogers.wave.ca (smtp.bc.rogers.wave.ca [24.113.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA10732 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:47:33 GMT (envelope-from wwolf@rogers.wave.ca) Received: from mail.bc.rogers.wave.ca ([24.113.32.4]) by smtp.bc.rogers.wave.ca with ESMTP id <700992-25916>; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:40:33 -0400 Received: from avalon.ns.rogers.wave.ca ([24.113.53.151]) by mail.bc.rogers.wave.ca with SMTP id <336083-27029>; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:46:18 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:46:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Broza X-Sender: wwolf@avalon.ns.rogers.wave.ca To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. In-Reply-To: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, now we have some people interested hehe ;-) Quite right.. > > So, the name is choice. Just find what server to use. > I was thinking about Efnet becose of more people. > But there is an admin on galaxynet who do an offer. > An another who want it on Undernet. > And Doug say than Dalnet should be the right place. > > Now we just have to choice. > > Efnet -->people > Undernet -->W or X > Dalnet -->No take over > galaxynet --> a friendly admin ;-) > But I do have to agree, lets not strickly to one irc net, there are quite a few out there, we have alot people interested in #freebsd-newbies channel.. I'm not putting down any network and praising others.. lets just use get individuals involved and promote freebsd.. you got two irc Admins and an IRCop/Kline Co-ordinator on this list from three different IRC nets whom leave messages. Also lets get a web page on which we can list where individuals can be referred to listing any of the irc networks where you can find #freebsd-newbies :) Richard Broza | email: wwolf@rogers.wave.ca Irc: Mandragoran / WhiteWolf | whitewolf@sorcery.net IRCop/Kline Coordinator | web: http://members.tripod.com/~Arawn Internet Consultant | http://www.weeble.net Powered by Pepsi- The Next Generation / FreeBSD 2.2.6-Avalon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 18:33:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA20694 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:33:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20677 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:33:32 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (pm04-08.aei.ca [206.123.6.183]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22166; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353BF746.85977634@aei.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:32:54 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Broza CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies on effnet. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Richard Broza wrote: > > Well, now we have some people interested hehe ;-) > > Quite right.. > > > > So, the name is choice. Just find what server to use. > > I was thinking about Efnet becose of more people. > > But there is an admin on galaxynet who do an offer. > > An another who want it on Undernet. > > And Doug say than Dalnet should be the right place. > > > > Now we just have to choice. > > > > Efnet -->people > > Undernet -->W or X > > Dalnet -->No take over > > galaxynet --> a friendly admin ;-) > > > > But I do have to agree, lets not strickly to one irc net, there are quite > a few out there, we have alot people interested in #freebsd-newbies > channel.. I'm not putting down any network and praising others.. lets just > use get individuals involved and promote freebsd.. you got two irc Admins > and an IRCop/Kline Co-ordinator on this list from three different IRC nets > whom leave messages. Also lets get a web page on which we can list where > individuals can be referred to listing any of the irc networks where you > can find #freebsd-newbies :) > > Richard Broza | email: wwolf@rogers.wave.ca > Irc: Mandragoran / WhiteWolf | whitewolf@sorcery.net > IRCop/Kline Coordinator | web: http://members.tripod.com/~Arawn > Internet Consultant | http://www.weeble.net > > Powered by Pepsi- The Next Generation / FreeBSD 2.2.6-Avalon Well I dont think so: its not a good Idea to do a division of the force. We are not a lot of people. Anyway, I think than we should start on one group of server. I dont care witch, choice. I'm only interested in the channel. Not the server. I can do a starting web page for the channel. I just offer my services. if you want to see my work, http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/ But please choice. I'm not the king of the hill ;-) Cya Malartre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 19:36:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA00781 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:36:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polaris.pacificnet.net (polaris.pacificnet.net [207.171.0.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00662 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:35:21 GMT (envelope-from bear@pacificnet.net) Received: from pm3h-36.pacificnet.net (pm3h-36.pacificnet.net [207.171.35.133]) by polaris.pacificnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA29550 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:33:14 -0700 (PDT) env-from (bear@pacificnet.net) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:34:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Joey Garcia To: freebsd-newbies Subject: BSDnet - IRC sever for BSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You guys have been wanting a channel on IRC and have been debating on what server to use (or what network at least). Well, how about irc.bsdnet.net or something like that. I forgot what exactly is the server but I could find out, or just try it out untill you get it. heh Just like everything else in Unix. *grin* Well, seems like a good idea to put a BSD related channel on a BSD related server/network. Anyways, just pitchin' the idea to you guys/gals. Joey Garcia =================================================== Joseph Garcia Downey, CA bear@pacificnet.net "Dont drink and drive, you might spill the beer." =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 20:53:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14795 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:53:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from m7.sprynet.com (m7.sprynet.com [165.121.2.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA14780 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:53:05 GMT (envelope-from connecte@sprynet.com) Received: from sprynet.com ([149.76.208.2]) by m7.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA00921 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <353C18A3.3FAE152B@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:55:16 -0400 From: Matthew & Lori Taylor Reply-To: connecte@sprynet.com Organization: Maledil Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A55F3EE6E912C4AB2A735915" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A55F3EE6E912C4AB2A735915 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------A55F3EE6E912C4AB2A735915 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mh2.sprynet.com (mh2.sprynet.com [165.121.2.53]) by m7.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15161 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m7.sprynet.com (m7.sprynet.com [165.121.2.64]) by mh2.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17254 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost) by m7.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with internal id TAA15141; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Message-Id: <199804210217.TAA15141@m7.sprynet.com> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="TAA15141.893125043/m7.sprynet.com" Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --TAA15141.893125043/m7.sprynet.com The original message was received at Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:19 -0700 (PDT) from [149.76.208.4] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to hub.freebsd.org.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown --TAA15141.893125043/m7.sprynet.com Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; m7.sprynet.com Received-From-MTA: DNS; [149.76.208.4] Arrival-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; freebsd-newvies@freebsd.org Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; hub.freebsd.org Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:22 -0700 (PDT) --TAA15141.893125043/m7.sprynet.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Received: from sprynet.com ([149.76.208.4]) by m7.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15132; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <353C0233.FAC8E0BD@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:19:31 -0400 From: Matthew & Lori Taylor Reply-To: connecte@sprynet.com Organization: Maledil Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-newvies@freebsd.org Subject: FrontPage98 extensions and BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know, I know...Microshaft is what we are TRYING to get away from, BUT I bought their damn FrontPage98 for my Winblows server that I am attempting to mirror with my upcoming BSD webserver and discovered that they have UNIX extensions. Two of the files that look like I could use are and . Has ANYONE used either of these and can anyone recommend one for use w/ FreeBSD? TIA --TAA15141.893125043/m7.sprynet.com-- --------------A55F3EE6E912C4AB2A735915-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Apr 20 21:14:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18820 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.ftcnet.com (root@alpha.ftcnet.com [204.174.119.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA18715 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:13:53 GMT (envelope-from astonge@ftcnet.com) Received: from win95.box (astonge@oliver-1-23.ftcnet.com [204.174.119.73]) by alpha.ftcnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA19486; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <353C1D6D.2989@ftcnet.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:15:41 -0700 From: "Adrian St.Onge" Reply-To: astonge@ftcnet.com Organization: None (for now) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia CC: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDnet - IRC sever for BSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia wrote: > > Well, how about irc.bsdnet.net > or something like that. It's irc.freebsd.org -- Adrian. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 01:38:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23592 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 01:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA23542 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:37:56 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA27186; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:37:50 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:37:45 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been giving this IRC business some thought, and as usual I've come up with lots more questions. If we can answer these, either we'll all be closer to making some decisions, or everyone else will become as confused as me :-) 1. When the reason is clear the best path will be easier to choose, so what is the *main* reason for having #freebsd-newbies? There are already some #freebsd channels around, but we want our own. If there was only one reason, what would it be, and why would newbies go there? - There's nowhere else to go? - Everyone else has a #*-newbies? - It feels good? - It looks good for FreeBSD? - It looks good for newbies? - It's fun to have your own channel? - We're not wanted on other channels? - Other channels don't give us what we want? - We don't like the people on other channels? - We want to help others? - We want to get help? - We want to meet each other? - Some other reason? 2. It will attract people interested in FreeBSD as well as giving current newbies a place to go, but are we concerned with both here? Do we slant more one way than the other? Can we do both at once? 3. Who is going to be there? Why? What will make people want to come? What will make them stay? What will make them leave? 4. What other things will lead to the channel's success or failure? How will we judge whether or not it is successful? 5. Is it better to have FreeBSD-related channels on as many nets as possible, or to stick with one to get good numbers? 6. How many of us have tried the existing FreeBSD-related channels? What are their strengths and weaknesses? I've spent most of today on the #freebsd channel at dalnet, in between the odd bit of work. As a confirmed IRC hater, I must say it was a surprisingly pleasant place to be. I didn't see an awful lot going on, but people drifted in and out and chatted about FreeBSD and music and computers and cats and FreeBSD and jokes and people and... all sorts of things. There were a few questions, not very many. Nobody seemed to know the answers but nobody seemed to expect their questions to be answered either. If there was ever a problem it was not enough people to keep it interesting. There might not be enough FreeBSD users to go around. Once I accidentally ended up on some other server (no idea what network, lots of channels) and found #freebsd with one person in it, apparently not around at the time. I visited twice more at different times and found one or two silent people each time. It would be a shame if #freebsd-newbies ended up like that. This is a very unfair report, since it is my only visit and I wasn't paying too much attention most of the day. This might be enough to start up some analysis of our requirements though. I don't know much at all about IRC. I'd like to know how other #freebsd channels might be different, and then, what would we expect to see in a successful #freebsd-newbies channel? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 02:03:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA26945 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 02:03:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26937 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:03:36 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA27254; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:03:30 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980421190326.22159@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:03:26 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: wow! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If you're running bash, try typing 'help'. Am I the only one who's never seen this before? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 04:03:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12721 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:03:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA12693; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:03:37 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA27563; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:03:23 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980421210319.35138@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:03:19 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: email [was: Screen Shot] References: <35391D64.41C67EA6@ida.net> <35398737.A09B5956@ibm.net> <19980421163133.48059@papillon.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980421163133.48059@papillon.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:31:33PM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm gonna cc this to -newbies as a subtle hint :-) It's one thing that we can easily learn to do well. On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:31:33PM +0800, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sat, 18 April 1998 at 22:10:15 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: > > Mike wrote: > > > >> P.S. Does anybody else but me think that you shouldn't quote the whole > >> friggin' message when replying? Be kind on other people's slow links. > > > > core sure does, read the list charters. I was about to say something, > > TNX for speaking up! I couldn't see anything specific in the list charters, but I wish it was there. It's so annoying to wade through someone's out of context prattle at the top, then see every word of the original message and sig and footer quoted at the bottom as if it wasn't important to the writer anyway. It's like someone turning their back during a conversation. > I frequently get up on my hind legs and complain about this sort of > thing (and a whole lot of other related issues). Check out > http://www.lemis.com/email.html and send me comments if you will. You forgot to mention it's been enhanced. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 07:19:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13982 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:19:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx.seanet.com (dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13954 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:19:41 GMT (envelope-from bashby@seanet.com) Received: from default (o5.dialup.seanet.com [207.12.129.133]) by mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA04951; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005401bd6d30$50efea00$85810ccf@default> From: "Bob Ashby" To: , "Michell Murrain" , "Deb Nicholls" , "Annise & Ron" , "Roxie" , "Gregg" , Subject: Thoughts on operating systems - a Funny Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:18:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If Operating Systems Were Beers... DOS Beer : Requires you to use your own can opener, and requires you toread the directions carefully before opening the can. Originally only came in an 8-oz. can, but now comes in a 16-oz. can. However, the canis divided into 8 compartments of 2 oz. each, which have to be accessed separately. Soon to be discontinued, although a lot of people are going to keep drinking it after it's no longer available. Windows 3.1 Beer: The world's most popular. Comes in a 16-oz. can thatlooks a lot like Mac Beer's. Requires that you already own a DOS Beer.Claims that it allows you to drink several DOS Beers simultaneously, but in reality you can only drink a few of them, very slowly, especially slowly if you are drinking the Windows Beer at the sametime. Sometimes, for apparently no reason, a can of Windows Beer will explode when you open it.. Windows 95 Beer: You can't buy it yet, but a lot of people have taste-tested it and claim it's wonderful. The can looks a lot like MacBeer's can, but tastes more like Windows 3.1 Beer. It comes in 32-oz.cans, but when you look inside, the cans only have 16 oz. of beer inthem. Most people will probably keep drinking Windows 3.1 Beer untiltheir friends try Windows 95 Beer and say they like it. The ingredients list, when you look at the small print, has some of thesame ingredients that come in DOS beer, even though the manufacturer claims that this is an entirely new brew. Windows NT Beer: Comes in 32-oz. cans, but you can only buy it by thetruckload. This causes most people to have to go out and buy bigger refrigerators. The can looks just like Windows 3.1 Beer's, but the company promises to change the can to look just like Windows 95 Beer's- after Windows 95 beer starts shipping. Touted as an "industrial strength" beer, and suggested only for use in bars. Mac Beer: At first, came only a 16-oz. can, but now comes in a 32-oz.can. Considered by many to be a "light" beer. All the cans look identical. When you take one from the fridge, it opens itself. Theingredients list is not on the can. If you call to ask about the ingredients, you are told that "you don't need to know." A notice on the side reminds you to drag your empties to the trashcan. OS/2 Beer: Comes in a 32-oz can. Does allow you to drink several DOSBeers simultaneously. Allows you to drink Windows 3.1 Beersimultaneously too, but somewhat slower. Advertises that its canswon't explode when you open them, even if you shake them up. You neverreally see anyone drinking OS/2 Beer, but the manufacturer(International Beer Manufacturing) claims that 9 million six- packshave been sold. Unix Beer: Comes in several different brands, in cans ranging from 8oz. to 64 oz. Drinkers of Unix Beer display fierce brand loyalty, eventhough they claim that all the different brands taste almost identical.Sometimes the pop-tops break off when you try to open them, so you haveto have your own can opener around for those occasions, in which caseyou either need a complete set of instructions, or a friend who hasbeen drinking Unix Beer for several years. AmigaDOS Beer: The company has gone out of business, but their recipehas been picked up by some weird German company, so now this beer will be an import. This beer never really sold very well because the original manufacturer didn't understand marketing. Like Unix Beer,AmigaDOS Beer fans are an extremely loyal and loud group. It originally came in a 16-oz. can, but now comes in 32-oz. cans too.When this can was originally introduced, it appeared flashy and colorful, but the design hasn't changed much over the years, so it appears dated now. Critics of this beer claim that it is only meant for watching TV anyway. VMS Beer: Requires minimal user interaction, except for popping thetop and sipping. However cans have been known on occasion to explode, or contain extremely un-beer-like contents. Bob Ashby "Walk in peace, fore they shall know us only by the tracks we leave" ICQ #7553080 Wolf Grafx Raven Research http://www.seanet.com/~bashby To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 14:09:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24384 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:09:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24223 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:08:34 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@pm02-06.aei.ca [206.123.6.131]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17963; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353D0AC7.4AAA1E06@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:08:23 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: astonge@ftcnet.com CC: Joey Garcia , newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSDnet - IRC sever for BSD References: <353C1D6D.2989@ftcnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Adrian St.Onge wrote: > Joey Garcia wrote: > > > > Well, how about irc.bsdnet.net > > or something like that. > > It's irc.freebsd.org > > -- Adrian. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message Well, it sounds good to me :-) what other think? Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 14:14:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25431 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA25360 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:13:50 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@pm02-06.aei.ca [206.123.6.131]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18591; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:13:30 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > I've been giving this IRC business some thought, and as usual I've come > up with lots more questions. If we can answer these, either we'll all be > closer to making some decisions, or everyone else will become as confused > as me :-) > > 1. When the reason is clear the best path will be easier to choose, so > what is the *main* reason for having #freebsd-newbies? There are > already some #freebsd channels around, but we want our own. If there > was only one reason, what would it be, and why would newbies go there? > - There's nowhere else to go? > - Everyone else has a #*-newbies? > - It feels good? > - It looks good for FreeBSD? > - It looks good for newbies? > - It's fun to have your own channel? > - We're not wanted on other channels? > - Other channels don't give us what we want? > - We don't like the people on other channels? > - We want to help others? > - We want to get help? > - We want to meet each other? > - Some other reason? > > 2. It will attract people interested in FreeBSD as well as giving current > newbies a place to go, but are we concerned with both here? > Do we slant more one way than the other? Can we do both at once? > > 3. Who is going to be there? Why? What will make people want to come? > What will make them stay? What will make them leave? > > 4. What other things will lead to the channel's success or failure? > How will we judge whether or not it is successful? > > 5. Is it better to have FreeBSD-related channels on as many nets as > possible, or to stick with one to get good numbers? > > 6. How many of us have tried the existing FreeBSD-related channels? > What are their strengths and weaknesses? > > I've spent most of today on the #freebsd channel at dalnet, in between > the odd bit of work. As a confirmed IRC hater, I must say it was a > surprisingly pleasant place to be. I didn't see an awful lot going on, > but people drifted in and out and chatted about FreeBSD and music and > computers and cats and FreeBSD and jokes and people and... all sorts of > things. There were a few questions, not very many. Nobody seemed to know > the answers but nobody seemed to expect their questions to be answered > either. If there was ever a problem it was not enough people to keep it > interesting. There might not be enough FreeBSD users to go around. Once I > accidentally ended up on some other server (no idea what network, lots of > channels) and found #freebsd with one person in it, apparently not around > at the time. I visited twice more at different times and found one or two > silent people each time. It would be a shame if #freebsd-newbies ended up > like that. > > This is a very unfair report, since it is my only visit and I wasn't paying > too much attention most of the day. This might be enough to start up some > analysis of our requirements though. I don't know much at all about IRC. > I'd like to know how other #freebsd channels might be different, and then, > what would we expect to see in a successful #freebsd-newbies channel? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message The main Idea is than newbies cannot really ask a question on any of the #FreeBSD I have visited. On Efnet #FreeBSD, a guy say to me than I was (not the exactly term he use...) stupid because of a *stupid* question on FTP. So anyway, I think we should have a channel for newbies. The problem with multiple #freebsd-newbies is than we are not a lot or people right now. So irc.freebsd.org should be fine. /server irc.freebsd.org 6667 I think its a good Idea to start there. Who admin that server??? Malartre what are you thinking? -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 17:25:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29948 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:25:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29862 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:25:09 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00565; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:24:56 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980422102451.37232@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:24:51 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Malartre Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 05:13:30PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 05:13:30PM -0400, Malartre wrote: [entire original message quoted and ignored - deleted] > The main Idea is than newbies cannot really ask a question on any of the > #FreeBSD I have visited. OK. Does that mean that the reason you want a newbies channel is purely that you want a channel where you *can* ask questions? Like I said, who will answer them? As someone pointed out recently, if it is only newbies then the advice given will be the worst advice available anywhere on FreeBSD. > On Efnet #FreeBSD, a guy say to me than I was (not the exactly term he use...) > stupid because of a *stupid* question on FTP. Maybe those people want to talk to people using FreeBSD, not people learning FreeBSD, and they feel like you are making them work :-) If there was #freebsd-newbies on efnet as well as #freebsd, that might make it better for everyone. People on #freebsd wouldn't have to hear newbie questions and newbies on efnet would have somewhere to go. It sounds like there's a lot of newbies there already. I don't see enough people talking about it here to sustain a channel in a new place. You will always find hostility on irc if you take a channel for intermediate users and try to force them to deal with newbies. If you want to see the strongest hostility toward newbies that exists, you will probably find that if you go to where freebsd developers are trying to work together and get in their way, in any medium. > So anyway, I think we should have a channel for newbies. > The problem with multiple #freebsd-newbies is than we are not a lot or > people right now. And how are we going to increase the number of newbies using irc? What do we have to offer? > So irc.freebsd.org should be fine. I asked on -hackers what they thought of this. So far a couple replied in -chat saying they can't see any problem, a couple replied in -hackers saying they would be very worried if we tried that, and some were so upset they wrote to me privately explaining (not always in nice language!) some reasons why we should not go there. Maybe there are more comments on both sides still to come, maybe even suggestions for how we could make it work well. Would you like a summary of what they said? > what are you thinking? I'm thinking that whatever a group of newbies wants to do by themselves is OK, IF AND ONLY IF they have thought it through and understand the consequences. All newbies will be held responsible for the outcomes. IRC is a very public place. I posted some questions here to help you and others think it through. So far they have been ignored. I don't mind that. Someone else might have a better list of questions to consider. What I'd like to see is some brain involvement before actions, but maybe that's too restrictive for newbies. All I see so far, though, looks like lack of forethought, willingness to work hard but unwillingness to take responsibility for the outcomes or even consider what they might be. I repeat, this is not school! You are expected to be mature enough to make your own decisions after doing the necessary research, as well as suffering the consequences (to yourself and others) if the decisions are not wisely made. There is no directing other than your own ability to analyse the situation and act appropriately, and there is certainly no teacher to come along and tidy up after class. Do your research, plan carefully, discuss, incorporate the good ideas from others, and then you can do anything you like with the whole community's support. Skimp on planning, and you can still do whatever you want but you won't get the support you need to make it work. Does anyone have the guts to answer the questions I posted earlier, or to substitute their own? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 17:59:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06113 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:59:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.ftcnet.com (root@alpha.ftcnet.com [204.174.119.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06091 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:59:31 GMT (envelope-from astonge@ftcnet.com) Received: from win95.box (oliver-1-23.ftcnet.com [204.174.119.73]) by alpha.ftcnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA11059; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <353D4128.4AE9@ftcnet.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:00:24 -0700 From: "Adrian St.Onge" Reply-To: astonge@ftcnet.com Organization: None (for now) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca> <19980422102451.37232@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > > I asked on -hackers what they thought of this. So far a couple replied > in -chat saying they can't see any problem, a couple replied in -hackers > saying they would be very worried if we tried that, and some were so > upset they wrote to me privately explaining (not always in nice > language!) some reasons why we should not go there. Maybe there are more > comments on both sides still to come, maybe even suggestions for how we > could make it work well. Would you like a summary of what they said? > I would like to know what they said. I think a channel for newbies would be a good idea because not all of us are true newbies (I'm a newbie to FreeBSD but I have had my own Linux system for over a year). I think that a channel could also be a extension of the mailing list where ppl can go and hang out together. Also It could be a place where we can learn from each other and if any one has a problem that some of us cannot help them with, we can direct the to someone/someplace who can. But for any of this to work I think we'er going to need the support of at least half the ppl on this mailing list. > > what are you thinking? > > I'm thinking that whatever a group of newbies wants to do by themselves > is OK, IF AND ONLY IF they have thought it through and understand the > consequences. All newbies will be held responsible for the outcomes. > IRC is a very public place. I agree. > > Regards, > -*Sue*- Just a thought, Adrian St.Onge To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 19:04:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17740 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA17599 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:03:34 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (kaput@aeiusrD-23.aei.ca [206.186.204.173]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17009; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353D4FE8.CB060112@aei.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:03:20 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca> <19980422102451.37232@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 05:13:30PM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > [entire original message quoted and ignored - deleted] > > > The main Idea is than newbies cannot really ask a question on any of the > > #FreeBSD I have visited. > > OK. Does that mean that the reason you want a newbies channel is purely > that you want a channel where you *can* ask questions? Like I said, who > will answer them? As someone pointed out recently, if it is only newbies > then the advice given will be the worst advice available anywhere on > FreeBSD. > > > On Efnet #FreeBSD, a guy say to me than I was (not the exactly term he use...) > > stupid because of a *stupid* question on FTP. > > Maybe those people want to talk to people using FreeBSD, not people > learning FreeBSD, and they feel like you are making them work :-) If there > was #freebsd-newbies on efnet as well as #freebsd, that might make it > better for everyone. People on #freebsd wouldn't have to hear newbie > questions and newbies on efnet would have somewhere to go. It sounds like > there's a lot of newbies there already. I don't see enough people talking > about it here to sustain a channel in a new place. > > You will always find hostility on irc if you take a channel for > intermediate users and try to force them to deal with newbies. If you want > to see the strongest hostility toward newbies that exists, you will > probably find that if you go to where freebsd developers are trying to > work together and get in their way, in any medium. > > > So anyway, I think we should have a channel for newbies. > > The problem with multiple #freebsd-newbies is than we are not a lot or > > people right now. > > And how are we going to increase the number of newbies using irc? > What do we have to offer? > > > So irc.freebsd.org should be fine. > > I asked on -hackers what they thought of this. So far a couple replied > in -chat saying they can't see any problem, a couple replied in -hackers > saying they would be very worried if we tried that, and some were so > upset they wrote to me privately explaining (not always in nice > language!) some reasons why we should not go there. Maybe there are more > comments on both sides still to come, maybe even suggestions for how we > could make it work well. Would you like a summary of what they said? > > > what are you thinking? > > I'm thinking that whatever a group of newbies wants to do by themselves > is OK, IF AND ONLY IF they have thought it through and understand the > consequences. All newbies will be held responsible for the outcomes. > IRC is a very public place. > > I posted some questions here to help you and others think it through. So > far they have been ignored. I don't mind that. Someone else might have a > better list of questions to consider. What I'd like to see is some brain > involvement before actions, but maybe that's too restrictive for newbies. > > All I see so far, though, looks like lack of forethought, willingness to > work hard but unwillingness to take responsibility for the outcomes or > even consider what they might be. I repeat, this is not school! You are > expected to be mature enough to make your own decisions after doing the > necessary research, as well as suffering the consequences (to yourself > and others) if the decisions are not wisely made. > > There is no directing other than your own ability to analyse the > situation and act appropriately, and there is certainly no teacher to > come along and tidy up after class. Do your research, plan carefully, > discuss, incorporate the good ideas from others, and then you can do > anything you like with the whole community's support. Skimp on planning, > and you can still do whatever you want but you won't get the support you > need to make it work. > > Does anyone have the guts to answer the questions I posted earlier, or to > substitute their own? > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > find / -name "*.conf" |more *brain-dead* newbies as in the mail on hackers@freebsd.org Sue, your a very logic person :-) I will answer your question (if i find the mail, I will try) Well, a channel need to start somewhere. Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 19:21:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA21395 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1b.yahoomail.com (send1b.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA21347 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:20:53 GMT (envelope-from pauper_i@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980422022030.2678.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Received: from [200.38.198.9] by send1b; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:20:30 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Pauper Subject: #freebsd-newbies To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, been a lot of chat about a new channel, and a lot of pro's and con's, so I'd like to throw in another 2 cents worth, see if this might help: I've been on dalnet for over two years now - one of the regular features there is a "teach-in" where admins, irc opers and experienced help opers hold a mass conference on a regular basis, in a moderated channel. This allows them to explain different features of the network to the users present (attendance is often around 500 or so which is why the channel is moderated). At the end of the period, there is usually a question and answer time. This may be a possible way to start up such a channel as you suggest, inviting different personalities from development, docs and experienced users to "speak" ... I know for certain that there are a few such subscribed to the questions list, keeping an eye on what goes on and helping wherever they can. I'm sure they'd be happy to assist in something like this. I would agree with Sue in that the channel, as a help channel, wouldn't be too helpful - the blind leading the blind so to speak, unless some more experienced users could be persuaded to devote some of their time to staffing it. OK, I'll admit, I'm still trying to install FreeBSD for the first time ever, so I'm no-one to shout about abilities in that field, but I do know IRC well enough to know what is and isn't likely to happen with such a channel. One other thing I would like to mention - IMHO irc.freebsd.net, although admirably suited to our needs, does tend to hold only those who are experienced and advanced in FreeBSD. Other newcomers would not even see the channel there. Given the current "push" to try to to attract more interest in FreeBSD, I think it would be better for such a channel to be established on a more public network, especially if the above suggestion proves useful. Well, its nearly 5 cents worth, but what do you think ? Dave B Pauper on Dalnet (and almost one in r/l too *grin*) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 19:28:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA22850 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:28:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send1a.yahoomail.com (send1a.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA22753 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:28:05 GMT (envelope-from pauper_i@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19980422022704.26809.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Received: from [200.38.198.9] by send1a; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:27:04 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:27:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Pauper Subject: #freebsd-newbies To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org hi again, just an afterthought - many of the people on this list are scattered around the globe, so it's likely that not all could attend such a meeting. It could be possible for one person to log the text of the "speech" and post it back to this list for their benefit. Dave B Pauper on Dalnet _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 19:38:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24010 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24000 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:37:50 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00976; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:37:36 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980422123732.26573@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:37:32 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Malartre Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca> <19980422102451.37232@welearn.com.au> <353D4FE8.CB060112@aei.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <353D4FE8.CB060112@aei.ca>; from Malartre on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 10:03:20PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 10:03:20PM -0400, Malartre wrote: > *brain-dead* newbies as in the mail on hackers@freebsd.org Get used to it, until we can *demonstrate* that they are wrong (or right, hehe) > Sue, your a very logic person :-) I've been reading man pages too long :-) > I will answer your question (if i find the mail, I will try) > Well, a channel need to start somewhere. There might be more people happy about us being on irc.bsdnet.org than you think. It all depends on how we handle it. Their main concerns seem to be: 1. Newbies might ask questions in channels where people don't want to answer questions. This feeling is very strong! We would have to make sure that didn't happen. If we can help to keep newbies out of the other channels by being there, they would be pleased. 2. Newbies will tell each other the wrong advice, and give FreeBSD a bad name. Nobody is available to help newbies, and if a newbie can't get an answer there is no other channel to send them to. Some people say that there's a lot of brain-dead newbies on efnet already and we should go there, but I get the impression newbies are not treated very well on efnet. Does anyone have experience? If we take up residence on irc.bsdnet.org and after that newbies go to the wrong channel asking for help, we will be called names much worse than "brain-dead". We could prove them wrong. It could be a very good place or very bad, depending on how we do it. Do you think you could convince other newbies to stay in their channel? Would they want to? What are you offering them? -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 21:23:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07867 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:23:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA07849 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:23:14 GMT (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id VAA11563; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:22:37 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:22:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: Sue Blake cc: Malartre , FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies In-Reply-To: <19980422123732.26573@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Their main concerns seem to be: > 1. Newbies might ask questions in channels where people don't want > to answer questions. This feeling is very strong! We would have > to make sure that didn't happen. If we can help to keep newbies > out of the other channels by being there, they would be pleased. > 2. Newbies will tell each other the wrong advice, and give FreeBSD > a bad name. Nobody is available to help newbies, and if a newbie > can't get an answer there is no other channel to send them to. Here's the real problem, who (with expreience) will sit around and answer all these questions. On Efnet, you can find channels such as #computers, but then that can deal with every aspect of the computer, from hardware, to operating systems, to mere software and drivers. There's a lot to talk about, and since there's always someone with a question, its rarely boring. But then, you have #Unix. It has a simple name (like #computers), which is the first place newbies, or those with any technical difficulty, will turn to. However, #Unix hates questions and your lucky if you catch the answer before your kicked, banned, and flooded out. At first, I bet #Unix was fine with the questions, but was never ment to be for technical advise and was a place for power-users to come and talk. There attitude is just from the flood of questions, which to them, are to simple for their time. As people have noted, freebsd-questions and -hackers wont answer simple questions, and I dare you to find any decent tech support from businesses that pay only minimum wage. People just can't take it all the time, especially on one topic, and even on #computers people leave for months on end, until their ready to help again. Perhaps, the worse part in this idea is the channel name. Those with questions wont immediatly think, "I'll go to #freebsd-newbies," but rather only find after they were booted from #freebsd and had enough patience (or fear) to list all freebsd channels. And, on the last note, how many new users do you truly expect to go from efnet (or dalnet, or undernet) to bsdnet? If you want to help new users on irc, you have to face all these problems. 1. Keep the channel name simple, so users will immediatly go there. 2. Keep the operators/helpers happy, motivated, and there. 3. Put the channel somewhere accessable. Those are the challenges, and as proven time, and time again, the only difficult one is #2. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 22:50:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA19839 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polymorph.qcsn.com (root@polymorph.qcsn.com [207.149.233.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA19828 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:50:51 GMT (envelope-from hamellr@qcsn.com) Received: from greymouser.circle-path.org (pdx66-i48-01.teleport.com [204.202.171.207]) by polymorph.qcsn.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04146; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:02:31 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:52:54 -0700 () From: Rick Hamell To: Ben Manes cc: Sue Blake , Malartre , FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@mail.qcsn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 1. Keep the channel name simple, so users will immediatly go there. > 2. Keep the operators/helpers happy, motivated, and there. > 3. Put the channel somewhere accessable. AND, get new users to go to IRC, instead of tossing their hands up in frustration and giving up, in lieu of learning yet another piece of software. Rick Hamell (Non-IRC user, and to $#!@(*# old to put up with it.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 22:57:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA21204 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:57:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA21191 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:57:32 GMT (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA07241 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <353D86CB.3B79AD8A@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:57:31 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0420 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <19980422022704.26809.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think people are making too much of this. One of the good things about IRC is that anyone can start a channel. One of the bad things about IRC is that anyone can start a channel. :) If people were to go to irc.freebsd.org and start their own channel the other people on the server would never know you were there unless they did a /list, and you can mark the channel "secret" if you want to avoid that. :) The advantage of starting a channel on a large network is that when #freebsd-whatever is boring, there are other places to be and things to do. :) I agree that there probably aren't enough users to justify spreading across more than one network. I honestly don't care if you concentrate on dalnet or not, but of the 3 largest networks it is certainly the easiest one to establish and protect a channel on. I also know almost all of the chanops on dalnet #freebsd and sue's experience aside they are knowledgeable and willing to answer questions from anyone. That doesn't mean that the knowledgeable people will always be there. :) In any case, an IRC channel for new users would be a lot like this mailing list. A place for people to gather and chat about their experiences. Whatever else happens is gravy and y'all can take it as it comes. My suggestion is to pick a network, pick a channel name and just enjoy yourselves. :) If you're on dalnet, invite me sometime, if I'm not busy I'll be happy to come say hi. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 23:13:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24358 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:13:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from enterprise.tht.net (root@tht.net [209.47.145.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA24326 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:13:52 GMT (envelope-from beef@tht.net) Received: from localhost by enterprise.tht.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:13:12 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #2 built 1997-Mar-7) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 02:13:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: #freebsd-newbies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello everyone, Recently (like 2 days ago) #freebsd-newbies was set up on the undernet and the efnet. It is my aim to try to help out as many ppl as is possible. Hopefully many of you will benefit as will I, from the IRC channels Well thats it for now. Take care and regards, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Apr 21 23:33:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29703 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29588; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:32:35 GMT (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07407; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:32:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <353D8EFD.CE0DAD3E@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:32:29 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0420 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Eureka! Pasting into netscape Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I post to -questions because I've asked this question several times, and to -newbies to show that even old hands learn something new occasionaly. :) If you have a question, follow up to -questions, if you want to commiserate, follow up to -newbies, and if you want to flame me, don't bother. I love netscape and use it in X for mail, news and of course, web browsing. The only thing I didn't like about it was that I couldn't paste into netscape from other parts of X. It was making me batty. What I was doing was what I learned somewhere, swiping with mouse button one to highlight what I wanted, clicking once with mouse button one to copy the text to the clipboard and then clicking once with the middle button to paste. This worked fine for EVERY app except netscape. So, the other day I'm upgrading to netscape 4.05 and decided to test the pasting problem, just in case. Well, after being bitterly disappointed I decided to try something just to see if it works. I don't remember why I wanted to try this idea, but anyway what I did was highlight the text in the xterm and *leave* it highlighted. Then I clicked in netscape with the middle button and Voila! It pasted. You can't imagine my joy. :) I am sure many of you are thinking, "Well duh!" and that's fine. Many people told me various solutions, none of which worked, so I wanted to get the answer that works in the archive. For the new users, my moral is simple, never give up. :) Try things that sound loopy, one of them just might work. (But make sure you have good backups first!) Hope this is useful for someone, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 00:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA13670 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:13:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13590 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:12:38 GMT (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA01803; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:12:07 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980422171204.16640@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:12:04 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Studded Cc: FreeBSD-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Eureka! Pasting into netscape References: <353D8EFD.CE0DAD3E@san.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <353D8EFD.CE0DAD3E@san.rr.com>; from Studded on Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 11:32:29PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 11:32:29PM -0700, Studded wrote: > I love netscape and use it in X for mail, news and of course, web > browsing. The only thing I didn't like about it was that I couldn't > paste into netscape from other parts of X. It was making me batty. What > I was doing was what I learned somewhere, swiping with mouse button one > to highlight what I wanted, clicking once with mouse button one to copy > the text to the clipboard and then clicking once with the middle button > to paste. This worked fine for EVERY app except netscape. I'm intrigued. How do people generally learn this sort of stuff, right or wrong, in the first place? When I first installed X I could find lots of info for programmers, but basic instructions like how to use the mouse were pretty hard to come by. I think I hit power switch about five times (ouch!) before learning that ctrl-alt-backspace will get you out of X :-( Most people I've asked said they learned by watching someone else, which doesn't help those working alone. > So, the other day I'm upgrading to netscape 4.05 and decided to test > the pasting problem, just in case. Well, after being bitterly > disappointed I decided to try something just to see if it works. I don't > remember why I wanted to try this idea, but anyway what I did was > highlight the text in the xterm and *leave* it highlighted. Then I > clicked in netscape with the middle button and Voila! It pasted. You > can't imagine my joy. :) The way it was explained to me (on IRC incidentally), as soon as it's highlighted it goes into the clipboard. I'd never click mouse button one a second time for fear of losing the clipboard's contents. Apparently that doesn't matter, unless it's netscape. Hmmm... another case of having to understand how things work rather than just the method. -- Regards, -*Sue*- find / -name "*.conf" |more To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 07:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21545 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21512 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:26:52 GMT (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA13303 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013299; Wed Apr 22 07:26:11 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA00475 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804221426.HAA00475@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Eureka! Pasting into netscape Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:12:04 +1000 >From: Sue Blake >...I think I hit power switch about five times >(ouch!) before learning that ctrl-alt-backspace will get you out of X :-( As far as I know, that's a peculiarity of FreeBSD; I've never seen it in other UNIX environments... and it's something that I find exceptionally counter-intuitive. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 08:12:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29314 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29280 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:11:57 GMT (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA13674 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013670; Wed Apr 22 08:11:17 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00691 for FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:11:17 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804221511.IAA00691@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:20:30 -0700 (PDT) >From: Pauper > been a lot of chat about a new channel.... :-} > I would agree with Sue in that the channel, as a help channel, >wouldn't be too helpful - the blind leading the blind so to speak, >unless some more experienced users could be persuaded to devote some >of their time to staffing it. I agree with that point. As someone who is relatively new to FreeBSD (per se), but familiar with UNIX, and whose job is administering UNIX (mostly FreeBSD) boxen, I confess that it had never occurred to me that IRC might be used for assistance. Granted, I still tend to think of IRC as a fad (I expect I'm disclosing information about how long I've been in the field...). And I admit that the only time I've ever done anything with IRC is when my niece was visiting our home, and she wanted access to IRC, so I found a likely-looking IRC client, FTPd it over to the Sun 3/60, configured it, built it, installed it, and it seemed to run OK. She used it, not me.... :-) [Persuading her to exit the xterms, rather than merely closing the windows, was a losing battle, though -- and it rather confused things for the next couple of weeks, when a pty would be allocated for a "new" xterm, and it turned out that she still had the IRC client running in it.... Took a while to figure out what was going on; after than, judicious use of the "kill" command proved quite useful.] More to the point: I cannot conceive of ever having the time to actually use IRC for anything -- I deal with well in excess of 100 email messages/day (and that's reduced as far as it is largely because I subscribed to freebsd-questions-digest, rather than freebsd-questions) at work, as well as about half that at home. (And at home I don't have access to FreeBSD.) And I have a few other things to deal with, as well.... >Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:22:41 -0700 (PDT) >From: Ben Manes >Here's the real problem, who (with expreience) will sit around and answer >all these questions.... >As people have noted, freebsd-questions and -hackers wont >answer simple questions.... I subscribe to -questions-digest & to -hackers. I have seen answers to simple questions that are posed to -questions answered. Sometimes the initial answers are things like "we need to see information X in order to provide a more useful answer" -- but I've even seen questions answered there where the question, as posed, was something I just couldn't understand. -hackers, of course, is less receptive to beginners' questions. That said, I've posed questions (to -questions), and sometimes I get an answer; sometimes I don't. One particular case involved asking how to get at a particular "struct" (so I could write some code to display the mount options that were actually in use, vs. what I *thought* I had specified) -- never got a response at all on that one. On the other hand, I did get some hints in response to another (re: avoiding NFS V3, as well as avoiding "loop-back" NFS mounts), and I was able to work some things out, so I sent a note back to -questions indicating the resolution to (what I perceived as) my problem. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 09:15:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA10703 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:15:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA10455; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:14:10 GMT (envelope-from suleyman@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (suleyman@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA28022; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:14:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Seggerman To: Studded cc: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Eureka! Pasting into netscape In-Reply-To: <353D8EFD.CE0DAD3E@san.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Studded: Thanks for posting this. It is a great help. I have just downloaded and installed Netscape 4.05, and am getting used to it. I was lamenting that there seemed to be no universal cross-application cut and paste the way there is in Windows. Well I guess I was wrong. I am sure that its behaviour is a different in X. Are you using XFree86 or another X-application? When copying to the clipboard are you limited to one screenfull, or is there an equvialent of the Windows "select all" function? Another problem I have been having is that Netscape downloads a file at the click of the mouse when the browser has opened a http connection, but with a ftp connection open through the browser, a mouse click gives an ascii download to the browswer window. On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Studded wrote: > I post to -questions because I've asked this question several times, > and to -newbies to show that even old hands learn something new > occasionaly. :) If you have a question, follow up to -questions, if you > want to commiserate, follow up to -newbies, and if you want to flame me, > don't bother. > Do you mean that there is also a -newbies list? > I love netscape and use it in X for mail, news and of course, web > browsing. The only thing I didn't like about it was that I couldn't > paste into netscape from other parts of X. It was making me batty. What > I was doing was what I learned somewhere, swiping with mouse button one > to highlight what I wanted, clicking once with mouse button one to copy > the text to the clipboard and then clicking once with the middle button > to paste. This worked fine for EVERY app except netscape. > > So, the other day I'm upgrading to netscape 4.05 and decided to test > the pasting problem, just in case. Well, after being bitterly > disappointed I decided to try something just to see if it works. I don't > remember why I wanted to try this idea, but anyway what I did was > highlight the text in the xterm and *leave* it highlighted. Then I > clicked in netscape with the middle button and Voila! It pasted. You > can't imagine my joy. :) > > I am sure many of you are thinking, "Well duh!" and that's fine. Many > people told me various solutions, none of which worked, so I wanted to > get the answer that works in the archive. For the new users, my moral is > simple, never give up. :) Try things that sound loopy, one of them just > might work. (But make sure you have good backups first!) > > Hope this is useful for someone, > Very useful for me. Can't wait to try it out. > Doug > -- > *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** > *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet > *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. > *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > I have never tried IRC. If you e-mail me how to instructions, I might find the time to try it out. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 09:37:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17474 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:37:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from red.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@red.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA17421 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:37:06 GMT (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23 by red.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0yS2Vh-0001iZ-00; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:36:37 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:36:36 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@red.csi.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: KDE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone heard of KDE? (K Desktop Environment) http://www.kde.org/ (This page says that it works under FreeBSD.) Is it any good? Is it worth installing? Is it easy to install? Are there alternatives? Thanks. Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 10:44:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29623 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29617 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:44:34 GMT (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf70.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.70]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA20951; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:44:04 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:57:58 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: KDE To: Ben Cohen cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed 22 Apr, Ben Cohen wrote: > > Has anyone heard of KDE? (K Desktop Environment) Yes. Best thing since Bill got a pie-tart in his face ;-) > http://www.kde.org/ > > (This page says that it works under FreeBSD.) > > Is it any good? Is it worth installing? Depends on wether you like Win98 or not. It acts as a kind of ActiveDesktop in a way that you can use your file-manager as HTML-browser, too. But you've probably already heared that. > Is it easy to install? Reasonably. I didn't have too many problems, but it is said that it may depend on the X-source being available on the machine. It's in the ports-current directory, BTW..... > Are there alternatives? Always. Afterstep is quite nice, too. twm is good for gfx-cards with little RAM, as it uses-up only very little colours. cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 11:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02693 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aslan.dos.nortel.com (aslan.dos.nortel.com [192.7.1.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02495; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:59:31 GMT (envelope-from rsh@dos.nortel.com) Received: from sunsrvr6.humb.nt.com (fireside.dos.nortel.com [192.7.1.10]) by aslan.dos.nortel.com (8.8.5/NORTEL-DOS1.0) with SMTP id OAA19970 ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sun104.humb.nt.com by sunsrvr6.humb.nt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; id AA26534; Wed, 22 Apr 98 13:59:28 EDT Received: by sun104.humb.nt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01121; Wed, 22 Apr 98 13:59:27 EDT Message-Id: <19980422135927.B969@sun104.humb.nt.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:59:27 -0400 From: Shawn Halpenny To: Ken Seggerman , Studded Cc: FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Eureka! Pasting into netscape Mail-Followup-To: Ken Seggerman , Studded , FreeBSD Questions , FreeBSD-newbies@freebsd.org References: <353D8EFD.CE0DAD3E@san.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1 In-Reply-To: X-Mutt-References: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 12:14:03PM -0400, Ken Seggerman wrote: > Studded: > > Thanks for posting this. It is a great help. I have just downloaded and > installed Netscape 4.05, and am getting used to it. > > I was lamenting that there seemed to be no universal cross-application cut > and paste the way there is in Windows. Well I guess I was wrong. > > I am sure that its behaviour is a different in X. Are you using XFree86 or > another X-application? This sort of thing applies to many, many, many of the X apps that allow input (and do output) of text. > When copying to the clipboard are you limited to one screenfull, or is > there an equvialent of the Windows "select all" function? Not a "Select All", but it is possible to extend the selection past the current window of text in your xterm. To do so, first select some text, scroll the window so that the new position is visible, then use the rightmost button (button number 3) to click and the selection will be extended (or shrunk) to that position. Also, you may be interested that if you double click in an xterm, you will be able to select a word at a time, rather than character-by-character (just like in Netscape). Triple-clicking will allow selection line by line (not just like in Netscape). Xterms can do a lot of stuff (man xterm)... > Another problem I have been having is that Netscape downloads a file at > the click of the mouse when the browser has opened a http connection, but > with a ftp connection open through the browser, a mouse click gives an > ascii download to the browswer window. If you go to Edit|Preferences|Navigator|Applications, you'll be able to select which file types you want downloaded, which you want to pump through a filter, those you wish Netscape to display, etc. -- Shawn Halpenny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 13:25:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11928 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:25:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11707 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:25:30 GMT (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05866; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:56:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19980422205651.12274@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:56:51 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: David Wolfskill , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Eureka! Pasting into netscape References: <199804221426.HAA00475@pau-amma.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199804221426.HAA00475@pau-amma.whistle.com>; from David Wolfskill on Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 07:26:11AM -0700 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 07:26:11AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: > >...I think I hit power switch about five times > >(ouch!) before learning that ctrl-alt-backspace will get you out of X :-( > > As far as I know, that's a peculiarity of FreeBSD; I've never seen it in > other UNIX environments... and it's something that I find exceptionally > counter-intuitive. Nope. It's a peculiarity of your X setup. You generally only use C-A-B when your window manager hangs (or something else goes wrong) with your X server. You can turn this option off with something like Section "ServerFlags" DontZap EndSection in your XF86Config file (as shown in the XF86Config(5) man page). If you run X using 'startx', the contents of the xinitrc file are run. This is either the system xinitrc file or the .xinitrc file in your home directory, if it exists. (.)xinitrc is a /bin/sh script. When it ends, your X session ends. It is customary to use this script to configure your X environment, run a few XTerms (in the background), and then run your window manager (in the foreground). This means that your window manager is the last process started from (.)xinitrc, and since it hasn't quit yet, (.)xinitrc hasn't finished, which means that X keeps going. When you shutdown your WM (fvwm, afterstep, twm, whatever) the (.)xinitrc file keeps going. But there's nothing more for it to do, so it finishes, so X finishes. This is not the only way to do it. Some people run the WM in the background, and run xterm (or similar) last, probably with a different coloured background, or specific title bar. When they exit from this xterm then their X session ends, regardless of what their WM chose to do. Assuming you wanted to work this out from first principles (as I did, about 4 or 5 years ago at university), your thought processes might run as follows: OK, I start X by typing 'startx'. I wonder what actually does? First thing to do is to find out where that program is stored. # which startx /usr/X11R6/bin/startx That's a start. Now, is this a binary program (in which case I need the source code to figure out what it's doing) or is it a shell script? If it's a shell script I can look at it to see what's going on. # file /usr/X11R6/bin/startx /usr/X11R6/bin/startx: Bourne shell script text Good, it's a text file. Lets have a look at it. # less /usr/X11R6/bin/startx [snip] # $XConsortium: startx.cpp,v 1.4 91/08/22 11:41:29 rws Exp $ # # This is just a sample implementation of a slightly less primitive # interface than xinit. It looks for user .xinitrc and .xserverrc # files, then system xinitrc and xserverrc files, else lets xinit choose # its default. The system xinitrc should probably do things like check # for .Xresources files and merge them in, startup up a window manager, # and pop a clock and serveral xterms. # # Site administrators are STRONGLY urged to write nicer versions. # userclientrc=$HOME/.xinitrc userserverrc=$HOME/.xserverrc sysclientrc=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc sysserverrc=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc [snip] Well, that's interesting. The comment tells me what it's doing, and it also helpfully lists the locations of the system wide config files. This is useful, because if I don't have a .xinitrc file in my home directory, I can copy the system one to my home directory and modify it to see what happens. If I screw things up too badly, I can just delete .xinitrc in my home directory and the system will go back to its default behaviour. That's a useful safety net. I can also see that the last line of this script is xinit $clientargs -- $serverargs which (after reading the code on the previous lines) indicates that in the default case of just typing 'startx', the final command run by this script will be xinit /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc Continuing our detective hunt, we can now look in the manual page for xinit(1). This includes a couple of useful paragraphs: [snip] An important point is that programs which are run by .xinitrc should be run in the background if they do not exit right away, so that they don't prevent other programs from starting up. However, the last long-lived program started (usually a window manager or terminal emulator) should be left in the foreground so that the script won't exit (which indicates that the user is done and that xinit should exit). [snip] which is pretty much what I said earlier, and [snip] Below is a sample .xinitrc that starts a clock, several terminals, and leaves the window manager running as the ``last'' application. Assuming that the window manager has been configured properly, the user then chooses the ``Exit'' menu item to shut down X. [snip] and also [snip] Another approach is to write a script that starts xinit with a specific shell script. Such scripts are usually named x11, xstart, or startx and are a convenient way to provide a simple interface for novice users: [snip] Which seems to cover it all pretty nicely. Hope that's useful. N -- Work: nik@iii.co.uk | FreeBSD + Perl + Apache Rest: nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk | Remind me again why we need Play: nik@freebsd.org | Microsoft? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 14:41:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07562 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:41:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt050n33.san.rr.com (@dt050n33.san.rr.com [204.210.31.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07451 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:41:15 GMT (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt050n33.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14268; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:40:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <353E63E7.33DE4826@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:40:55 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE-0420 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill CC: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <199804221511.IAA00691@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Wolfskill wrote: Someone else wrote: > > I would agree with Sue in that the channel, as a help channel, > >wouldn't be too helpful - the blind leading the blind so to speak, > >unless some more experienced users could be persuaded to devote some > >of their time to staffing it. > > I agree with that point. > > As someone who is relatively new to FreeBSD (per se), but familiar with > UNIX, and whose job is administering UNIX (mostly FreeBSD) boxen, I > confess that it had never occurred to me that IRC might be used for > assistance. Without going into too much detail re the rest of your post, I assure you that thousands of people find useful help on IRC every day. There are companies that actually provide first-line customer service over IRC, and there are hundreds of help channels staffed by volunteers that provide help as good as you can find anywhere. On any given night on just the 3 main IRC networks there are 80,000 connections and the numbers are growing consistently, as they have been for years. IRC is certainly not a fad. :) Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 18:17:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28823 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28731 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:16:41 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-40.aei.ca [206.186.204.190]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28496; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353E9659.42C83A7A@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:16:09 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sue Blake , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <353BB623.59353921@aei.ca> <19980421183744.56403@welearn.com.au> <353D0BF9.E6B2193@aei.ca> <19980422102451.37232@welearn.com.au> <353D4FE8.CB060112@aei.ca> <19980422123732.26573@welearn.com.au> <353D5BAD.69CABB78@aei.ca> <19980422130643.31796@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sue Blake wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 10:53:33PM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 10:03:20PM -0400, Malartre wrote: > > > > > > > *brain-dead* newbies as in the mail on hackers@freebsd.org > > > > > > Get used to it, until we can *demonstrate* that they are wrong > > > (or right, hehe) > > > > > > > Sue, your a very logic person :-) > > > > > > I've been reading man pages too long :-) > > > > > > > I will answer your question (if i find the mail, I will try) > > > > Well, a channel need to start somewhere. > > > > > > There might be more people happy about us being on irc.bsdnet.org than > > > you think. It all depends on how we handle it. > > > > > > Their main concerns seem to be: > > > 1. Newbies might ask questions in channels where people don't want > > > to answer questions. This feeling is very strong! We would have > > > to make sure that didn't happen. If we can help to keep newbies > > > out of the other channels by being there, they would be pleased. > > > 2. Newbies will tell each other the wrong advice, and give FreeBSD > > > a bad name. Nobody is available to help newbies, and if a newbie > > > can't get an answer there is no other channel to send them to. > > > > > > Some people say that there's a lot of brain-dead newbies on efnet already > > > and we should go there, but I get the impression newbies are not treated > > > very well on efnet. Does anyone have experience? > > > > > > If we take up residence on irc.bsdnet.org and after that newbies go to > > > the wrong channel asking for help, we will be called names much worse > > > than "brain-dead". We could prove them wrong. It could be a very good > > > place or very bad, depending on how we do it. Do you think you could > > > convince other newbies to stay in their channel? Would they want to? > > > What are you offering them? > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Regards, > > > -*Sue*- > > > > > > find / -name "*.conf" |more > > > > > > > Until the channel is not started *and* a little bit supported by other > > newbies, I cannot offer anything other than my own help. > > > > I am not stupid, I try to give some respect on other mailling list where > > there is discution about newbies. > > So I dont care about *brain-dead*. On hackers@freebsd.org , they are > > frustrated of win95... And they dont do anything to help. > > I try my best to do that channel work. And now there is people who want to > > support it. > > > > Its a good Idea to put it on irc.freebsd.org. And in long-term, it should be > > a good idea to put that server in the ircII port... > > > > what other newbies have to say? > > Psst! Why don't you ask them (not just me) > > Your keyboard must be the same brand as mine, the kind with buttons > that change position :-) > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > find / -name "*.conf" |more DOH! Why that apens only to me! hehe The CC have not worked. sorry! Malartre :-) -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 18:55:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04431 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04410 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:55:26 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-40.aei.ca [206.186.204.190]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04583; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353E9F6C.C4D0A905@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:54:52 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Studded CC: David Wolfskill , FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: <199804221511.IAA00691@pau-amma.whistle.com> <353E63E7.33DE4826@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Studded wrote: > David Wolfskill wrote: > > Someone else wrote: > > > I would agree with Sue in that the channel, as a help channel, > > >wouldn't be too helpful - the blind leading the blind so to speak, > > >unless some more experienced users could be persuaded to devote some > > >of their time to staffing it. > > > > I agree with that point. > > > > As someone who is relatively new to FreeBSD (per se), but familiar with > > UNIX, and whose job is administering UNIX (mostly FreeBSD) boxen, I > > confess that it had never occurred to me that IRC might be used for > > assistance. > > Without going into too much detail re the rest of your post, I assure > you that thousands of people find useful help on IRC every day. There > are companies that actually provide first-line customer service over > IRC, and there are hundreds of help channels staffed by volunteers that > provide help as good as you can find anywhere. On any given night on > just the 3 main IRC networks there are 80,000 connections and the > numbers are growing consistently, as they have been for years. IRC is > certainly not a fad. :) > > Doug > > -- > *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** > *** Proud designer and maintainer of the world's largest Internet > *** Relay Chat server with 5,328 simultaneous connections. > *** Try spider.dal.net on ports 6662-4 (Powered by FreeBSD) Well, what I dont love about it his than its not on one server. I have a way to do the centralisation. 1:Take channel #freebsd-newbies with a bot on every big IRC network. 2:Choice the main server where every one will be. 3:Put the topic on every server "That channel is centralised to irc.* (the name of the server) /server irc.* #freebsd-newbies. Like that, we will be on every network, but we will be indicating where is the main chan. Any comment and suggestion? Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Apr 22 18:57:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04740 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04729 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:57:26 GMT (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (aeiusrD-40.aei.ca [206.186.204.190]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA04890; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <353E9FE9.A63A7B57@aei.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:56:57 -0400 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lanny Baron CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lanny Baron wrote: > Hello everyone, > > Recently (like 2 days ago) #freebsd-newbies was set up on the undernet > and the efnet. It is my aim to try to help out as many ppl as is possible. > > Hopefully many of you will benefit as will I, from the IRC channels > > Well thats it for now. > > Take care and regards, > > Lanny Its a good work, but we are not to much people. I dont think than we can maintain a lot of channel on a lot of server 1:Take channel #freebsd-newbies with a bot on every big IRC network. 2:Choice the main server where every one will be. 3:Put the topic on every server "That channel is centralised to irc.* (the name of the server) /server irc.* #freebsd-newbies. Like that, we will be on every network, but we will be indicating where is the main chan. What do you think? Malartre -- -------------------------------------------------- malartre@aei.ca ICQ #4224434 www.aei.ca/~malartre/ FreeBSD 4 Newbies project Windows_95-B Unix FreeBSD-2.2.5 -------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 23 08:27:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA17179 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:27:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dot.crosswinds.net (dot.crosswinds.net [209.47.139.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17008 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Genius@glasgow.crosswinds.net) Received: from metallica ([194.72.246.51]) by dot.crosswinds.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA12628 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:26:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Genius@glasgow.crosswinds.net) Message-ID: <006001bd6ecc$0ddccd80$33f648c2@metallica> From: "Ian O'Friel" To: Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:22:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think the most sensible option for the IRC channel is to try it on a Server, if it doesn't work out, move to another server and try again until you find the right combination...... Trial and Error is the Best Way..... Ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 23 09:19:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29094 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:19:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beef.tht.net (beef.tht.net [209.47.145.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28914; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:18:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beef@beef.tht.net) Received: from localhost (beef@localhost) by beef.tht.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00418; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:16:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from beef@beef.tht.net) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:16:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: "Ian O'Friel" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: #freebsd-newbies In-Reply-To: <006001bd6ecc$0ddccd80$33f648c2@metallica> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Ian O'Friel wrote: > > I think the most sensible option for the IRC channel is to try it on a > Server, if it doesn't work out, move to another server and try again until > you find the right combination...... > > Trial and Error is the Best Way..... > > Ian > Hello again, To be frank, #freebsd-newbies is up and running on both efnet and undernet. In fact I have just purchased another shell account to set up bots in case my ISP reboots (like every day). One person sent mail saying the blind leading the blind...well I have talked to a few people who are willing to help in the channel when it gets going. But the channels can be more than just help. They can be good to get to know other users. By the way, blind leading the blind may result in brainstorms. That in turn may lead to problem solving. In addition, I have received mail from some very interesting people. All of whom, I would like to get to know. Mail is great. But chatting on IRC is even better at times. The only problem is when you stay up for 40 hours at a time. Regards, Lanny Baron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Apr 23 09:25:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01320 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:25:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01143 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org id 0ySOnQ-00061W-00; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:24:24 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:24:23 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: FreeBSD Newbies Mailing List Subject: WinBoot Program Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The WinBoot.exe program is very useful for booting FreeBSD from Windows 95. Is there any way of doing the reverse, that is to boot Windows directly from FreeBSD? If not, then would it (in theory) be possible to write one, perhaps by merging bits of WinBoot and reboot or shutdown? Would this be useful? Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 24 10:06:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04064 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:06:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04027 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA07734 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com(207.76.205.64) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma007732; Fri Apr 24 10:05:01 1998 Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19498 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:04:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:04:56 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199804241704.KAA19498@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Local groups Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was prowling about looking for some stuff on the Web recently, and ran across http://www.usenix.org/sage/locals/localgroups.html -- it's a page that lists local system administrator groups. I would hazard a guess that many folks who use FreeBSD do "system administration"-type things with/to the machines they use/control, so this might be a useful start.... (Someone had been asking about San Diego area: see the "Beach LISA" folks at http://www.beachlisa.org/.) Also, http://www.usenix.org/membership/LUGS.html lists local groups from a USENIX perspective. david -- David Wolfskill dhw@whistle.com (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 401-0168 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 24 10:37:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08556 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from violet.csi.cam.ac.uk (exim@violet.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08550 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:37:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk) Received: from bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.212.250]) by violet.csi.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org id 0ySmPC-0000Tb-00; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:36:58 +0100 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:37:00 +0100 (BST) From: Ben Cohen X-Sender: bjc23@bjc23.trin.cam.ac.uk Reply-To: bjc23@hermes.cam.ac.uk To: FreeBSD Newbies Mailing List Subject: Upgrading FreeBSD 2.2.5 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! I have a copy of FreeBSD 2.2.5; is it worth upgrading to 2.2.6? I would like to try KDE, but this doesn't seem to be in the 2.2.5 ports collection (either on the Walnut Creek CD-ROMs or on ftp.freebsd.org in /pub/FreeBSD/2.2.5-RELEASE/ports/ports.tgz). This is the same for some other programs as well. Do I need to upgrade to 2.2.6 (or FreeBSD-current) to run these extra ports, or can I just use the stuff in /pub/FreeBSD/ports-current? (How much disk space does KDE take up?) Also, I am trying to get a Soundblaster 64 AWE card to work; I recompiled the kernel, adding the following: # Sound Card controller snd0 options "SBC_IRQ=5" device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 5 drq 1 vector sbintr #device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 conflicts drq 1 vector sbintr # I changed this line because irq 7 didn't work and Windows 95 said irq 5. device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 5 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 However, on rebooting I got the following: <... etc.> sb0 not found at 0x220 sbxvi0 not found sbmidi0 not found at 0x330 imasks: bio c0004040, tty c003149a, net c003149a What am I doing wrong? Do I need an additional driver/kernel patch? Do I need to upgrade to 2.2.6 or FreeBSD-current? Thanks. Ben. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Apr 24 19:30:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24501 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24477 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15035 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:30:11 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:30:11 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199804250230.MAA15035@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Newbies FAK Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 24 April 1998) This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ FreeBSD-Newbies is a discussion forum for newbies. We cover any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook317.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 25 08:22:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03967 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from servicios.ubp.edu.ar (2.95.32.200.in-addr.arpa [200.32.95.2] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03905 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:22:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from meschoyez@ubp.edu.ar) Received: from webmail ([200.32.95.2]) by servicios.ubp.edu.ar (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 270; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:25:12 -0300 From: "Maximiliano A. Eschoyez" To: Rainer M Duffner Cc: newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: KDE X-Mailer: Netscape Messenger Express 1.0x [Mozilla/3.01Gold (Win95; I)] Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:25:12 -0300 Message-ID: <19980425152512194.AAA218.270@webmail> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Has anyone heard of KDE? (K Desktop Environment) > >Yes. Best thing since Bill got a pie-tart in his face ;-) > >> http://www.kde.org/ >> >> (This page says that it works under FreeBSD.) >> >> Is it any good? Is it worth installing? > >Depends on wether you like Win98 or not. >Rainer * Why people under UNIX-like OS try to emulate a MS 'Operative System' * Well, Who am I? I'm Maxi, a student of Telecomunications (engineer) [I'm trying to learn english because here, Argentina, we speak spanish, so excuse my errors] I started with computers under DOS, Windows was in 3.0 version at these time. Now, at the University, we have a network that works under Windows NT and all tha machines have Windows 95. Why I'm learning Free-BSD? Because I'm trying to be out of the Kingdom of Gill Bates (that's the way me and my friends call him, it's pronounce like 'HILL'; here a 'gil' is a stupid person) You know, I'm a newbie because I've been istalling Free-BSD since 15th of April (my PC only boots, that's a good goal). It's very hard to move from DOS to UNIX-like OS with only one book (The Complete Free-BSD). I'm doing a hard work, because I'm studying Free-BSD alone, but it's interesting 'cause I want to learn about networks (for my career) and always UNIXs are the most estable System for that. Regards. Maximiliano Eschoyez (Argentina) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 25 09:33:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13033 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:33:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (root@gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12949 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:33:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf88.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.88]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA18912; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:33:17 +0200 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:21:01 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: KDE To: "Maximiliano A. Eschoyez" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980425152512194.AAA218.270@webmail> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.42] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat 25 Apr, Maximiliano A. Eschoyez wrote: > * Why people under UNIX-like OS try to emulate a MS 'Operative > System' * To try to make even the dumbest Windiot aware of UNIX and its possibilities, to persuade these "point-an-click"-people, who'd normaly refuse to enter a command in a DOS-shell (horrible though that anyway...) into actually looking at Unix as an option, not an alternative. From reading various letters-to-the-editor in Unix-aware computer magazines here, I'd say that ATM IBM loses a great share of private OS/2 users to Linux/KDE (perhaps more than to NT) - for the simple fact that there is more and often better software available for less (mostly ZERO) money. OK, there's StarOffice even for OS/2, but GIMP ? > You know, I'm a newbie because I've been istalling Free-BSD > since 15th of April (my PC only boots, that's a good goal). The beginning is always slow. But why hurry ? Better understand all what you do slowly-but-safely than just going mad with the ports-collection and install a lot of useless stuff (useless for you, not generally useless, of course) > It's very hard to move from DOS to UNIX-like OS with only one book > (The Complete Free-BSD). Nemeth, Snyder, Sebas, Hein: Unix System Administration, ****2nd edition**** Prentice Hall Also available in a German edition (though they messed up some of the jokes...) > I'm doing a hard work, because I'm studying Free-BSD alone, but Herearound, even unix-aware people haven't even heard of FreeBSD. Sad but true - but market-presence (or maket-awareness) was never a sign for quality or a personal goal of mine. I want to have the best thing for the job. And for almost anything TCP/IP-related, FreeBSD is the best, even though the amount of money thrown towards Linux is orders of magnitudes larger. > it's interesting 'cause I want to learn about networks (for my > career) and always UNIXs are the most estable System for that. HeHe. Almost all modern TCP/IP implemtations (WIN-Sockets etc) are based on the same BSD-4.4 sources that come with FreeBSD. Guess what: What runs best, the original or the Windoze-port ! ? I wonder anyway; all these South-American countries that are cronically 'broke' would be 10000 times better served (pun intended) buy moving large parts of their IT-infrastructure to FreeBSD/Linux. How can your University afford all these NT/Win95 licenses, how can it afford the 24-months HW-upgrades ? OK, so you couldn't 'teach' M$-Visual Studio, but who exactly needs Visual Studio to compile the general "HelloWorld" C-proggies of first-level CS ? cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 25 13:42:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14287 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:42:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dot.crosswinds.net (dot.crosswinds.net [209.47.139.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14217; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:42:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Genius@glasgow.crosswinds.net) Received: from metallica ([194.74.241.179]) by dot.crosswinds.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA12055; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:42:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Genius@glasgow.crosswinds.net) Message-ID: <003b01bd708a$7ce62fe0$b3f14ac2@metallica> From: "Ian O'Friel" To: "FreeBSD Questions" , Subject: Fw: WinBoot Program Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:37:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Somebody metioned a program named Winboot.exe for booting FreeBSD under Win95, would this boot it from the secondary drive, My first drive cannot be set up with FreeBSD as it is 100% FAT32, I have just installed a 1.2 Gb drive for playing with, I have it partitioned as 50% FAT16 and 50% FreeBSD, the Problem is that I don't want to install BootEasy as it I don't know how compatible or good it is at being friendly with FAT32 as that would be the drive it would have to be placed on. Does anyone know of a program that will boot FreeBSD from Win95, as mentioned before, it is on the secondary partition of the Secondary drive, if I boot from Floppy it just tells me that It can find kernel and gives me the boot: prompt, So, does anyone know about the following - winboot.exe booting FreeBSD from FAT32 How to boot from the secondary drive Why did they call Linux 'Linux' rather than 'Lunix' ?? Bizarre Thanx Ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Apr 25 19:42:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27208 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from riptide.wavetech.net (root@riptide.WaveTech.net [206.146.144.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA27194; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:42:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from white@riptide.wavetech.net) Received: from riptide.wavetech.net (white@riptide.WaveTech.net [206.146.144.1]) by riptide.wavetech.net (8.8.7/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA06600; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:37:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:37:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Karen White To: "Ian O'Friel" cc: FreeBSD Questions , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: WinBoot Program In-Reply-To: <003b01bd708a$7ce62fe0$b3f14ac2@metallica> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I use System Commander for all of my multi-boot needs. I am running Dos 6.22, Win95 on my first hard drive Windows NT on my 2nd hard drive and FreeBSD on my 3rd Hard Drive. It handles all of the different drives, Operating Systems and Different Drive formats (ie Fat16, Fat32, NTFS, etc) just perfectly. The new system commander also comes with a disk partitioning program so you can change the size of your partitions on the fly without losing any data. On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Ian O'Friel wrote: > Somebody metioned a program named Winboot.exe for booting FreeBSD under > Win95, would this boot it from the secondary drive, > > My first drive cannot be set up with FreeBSD as it is 100% FAT32, I have > just installed a 1.2 Gb drive for playing with, I have it partitioned as 50% > FAT16 and 50% FreeBSD, the Problem is that I don't want to install BootEasy > as it I don't know how compatible or good it is at being friendly with FAT32 > as that would be the drive it would have to be placed on. Does anyone know > of a program that will boot FreeBSD from Win95, as mentioned before, it is > on the secondary partition of the Secondary drive, if I boot from Floppy it > just tells me that It can find kernel and gives me the boot: prompt, > > So, does anyone know about the following - > > winboot.exe > booting FreeBSD from FAT32 > How to boot from the secondary drive > Why did they call Linux 'Linux' rather than 'Lunix' ?? Bizarre > > Thanx Ian > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message