From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 17:24:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24647 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24632 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:24:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA02089; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:24:20 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:24:13 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: First commands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Here we go, another survey... Next month I'll be putting something together to help unix-newbies deal with the horror of their first FreeBSD prompt :-) To do this, I need to select the commands that a beginner needs to know first. I could get suggestions from beginners' unix books, but I'd like to know what commands *you* needed to know during the first day, and the first few weeks. For example, ls might be used often, but you desperately needed to know about df on that first day! Tell me that. Have you been frustrated by the lack of understandable examples of how commands are used? Some man pages give examples that are meaningless to someone with no background (try 'man find' and look under EXAMPLES). We need *simple* examples, like 'ls -la'. Maybe this has been done before, but I haven't seen it. OK, what are your picks for the most essential/useful commands for a raw newbie? And what commands are screaming out for a simple example of their use? Here's a starting list. What's missing? cd pwd mkdir ls cp mv rm more exit date df more du /stand/sysinstall ee man locate find nethack ps kill top pkg_add pkg_info (Please don't quote the _whole_ message, just reply with suggestions) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 17:43:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26563 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:43:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26542 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:43:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from direct-source.com.direct-source.com (ppp123.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.123]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA29095; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:36:07 -0700 () From: Rick Hamell To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@direct-source.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How about 'mount?' Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 18:14:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01353 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:14:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rdc.cl (mailnet.rdc.cl [200.27.2.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01272 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gollum@rdc.cl) Received: from wingate (dialusr-92.rdc.cl [200.27.4.102] (may be forged)) by rdc.cl (8.8.8/8.8.5-obm-seg) with SMTP id WAA23343 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:14:24 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005011120.0079e580@rdc.cl> X-Sender: gollum@rdc.cl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:11:20 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Anders Subject: Re: First Commands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all of those commands :-). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 19:00:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06814 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:00:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06800 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:00:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA16491; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:29:35 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA26608; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:29:35 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981005112935.P2545@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:29:35 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Anders , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Commands References: <3.0.5.32.19981005011120.0079e580@rdc.cl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005011120.0079e580@rdc.cl>; from Anders on Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 01:11:20AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 5 October 1998 at 1:11:20 -0400, Anders wrote: > > Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all > of those commands :-). I've been using UNIX for 12 years now, and I still haven't used all the commands. Isn't it nice to have a system that you don't grow out of? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 19:14:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08517 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:14:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA08501 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from simon_v_mendoza@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981005021324.5059.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [200.44.8.204] by send101.yahoomail.com; Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:13:24 PDT Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:13:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Mendoza Subject: Re: Documentacion To: jmsuarez , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ---jmsuarez wrote: > > Hola que .... > me encuentro en Ecuador y soy principiante en el mundo > de unix y por tanto de freebsd; quisiera ver si es posible me puedan > enviar documentacion en espaņol, para ponerme a estudiar, de ante mano > les agradesco por atencion prestada. > > pd. > mi e-mail es > jvasquez@goliat.espol.edu.ec > ķ > pepeluc98@yahoo.com >
Hola que ....
me encuentro en Ecuador y soy principiante en el mundo
de unix y por tanto de freebsd; quisiera ver si es posible me puedan enviar documentacion en espaņol, para ponerme a estudiar, de ante mano les agradesco por atencion prestada.

pd.
mi e-mail es
jvasquez@goliat.espol.edu.ec
ķ
pepeluc98@yahoo.com Hola Si tienes algun problema y puedo servirte de ayuda estoy a la orden Saludos Simon _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 19:49:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12155 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:49:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12137 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA02567; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:48:17 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981005124812.61558@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:48:12 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Anders Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Commands References: <3.0.5.32.19981005011120.0079e580@rdc.cl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005011120.0079e580@rdc.cl>; from Anders on Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 01:11:20AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 01:11:20AM -0400, Anders wrote: > > Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all > of those commands :-). Great! You're exactly the kind of person who has a clear view. Which commands do you use most? Which did you find most difficult to learn? Is there some command you would like to use but it's hard to understand? When I first tried to install FreeBSD I kept running out of disk space, either during the installation or later when installing packages. It was many weeks and many reinstallations later before I discovered that there is a command (df) to show the amount of free disk space :-( I suspect there's still more that I would use every day if I knew they existed. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 20:05:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14659 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:05:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14618 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:05:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id NAA02625; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:04:57 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981005130452.24414@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:04:52 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Simon Mendoza Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Documentacion References: <19981005021324.5059.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19981005021324.5059.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>; from Simon Mendoza on Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 07:13:24PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 07:13:24PM -0700, Simon Mendoza wrote: > [HTML junk snipped] > > Hola > > Si tienes algun problema y puedo servirte de ayuda estoy a la orden Thanks Simon! For the rest of us monolinguals, I think Simon just offered to help our Spanish speaking visitor if there are any more difficulties. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 20:30:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18710 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:30:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rdc.cl (mailnet.rdc.cl [200.27.2.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA18703 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gollum@rdc.cl) Received: from wingate (dialusr-97.rdc.cl [200.27.4.107] (may be forged)) by rdc.cl (8.8.8/8.8.5-obm-seg) with SMTP id AAA25769 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:30:25 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005032723.007a0bf0@rdc.cl> X-Sender: gollum@rdc.cl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 03:27:23 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Anders Subject: Re: First Commands In-Reply-To: <19981005124812.61558@welearn.com.au> References: <3.0.5.32.19981005011120.0079e580@rdc.cl> <3.0.5.32.19981005011120.0079e580@rdc.cl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:48 PM 10/5/98 +1000, you wrote: >On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 01:11:20AM -0400, Anders wrote: >> >> Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all >> of those commands :-). > >Great! You're exactly the kind of person who has a clear view. Which >commands do you use most? Which did you find most difficult to learn? >Is there some command you would like to use but it's hard to understand? > Well I really do not know very much as of yet (read top :-), but like somebody else said, 'mount' would be a good one to add, my first question was "how the f%*k do I read a floppy disk!!?"...also, if people are coming from windows, I suppose it would be nice to know how to be able to mount another partition, which took me a good 1/2 hour to 'decrypt' from the man page :) Other than that, the list is more than I would use in the first day..also the aliases of 'ls' that come set up automatically, that display file info, etc, 'll' and 'lf' (i think that's it) were real usefull as well. I spent a lot of time figuring out how to get the size of a file before I figured this out. And while you are at it, for a person who just has installed FreeBSD, how about 'shutdown' or 'restart'?? It would not be too much of a good thing to be forced to manually restart the computer and get scary looking messages about root not being unmounted on startup... :-) --Just my input. By the way, what does 'nethack' do?. Sounds familiar :-) Perhaps I should know what this command does, if they are important enough to be included in a 'newbie' to-know list .. =P To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 21:25:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA28651 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mfo00.iij.ad.jp (mfo00.iij.ad.jp [202.232.2.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28557 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:24:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rokada@ablecom.co.jp) Received: from mds00.iij.ad.jp (mds00.iij.ad.jp [202.232.2.17]) by mfo00.iij.ad.jp (8.8.8/MFO1.1) with ESMTP id NAA02937 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:24:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from 059okada.ablecom.co.jp (h085.n280.iijnet.or.jp [202.214.177.85]) by mds00.iij.ad.jp (8.8.8/3.6W-mds1.3) with SMTP id NAA06191 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:24:10 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <000d01bdf017$cf0ea740$55b1d6ca@059okada.ablecom.co.jp> From: "Ryoko Okada" To: Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:22:40 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe FreeBSD-users-jp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 22:06:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05371 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au [130.194.166.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05289 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:06:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29855; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:05:40 +1000 Message-Id: <199810050505.PAA29855@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:05:29 +1000 (EST) From: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au Reply-To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au Subject: Re: Newbies user groups in LA area To: sue@welearn.com.au cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981004160620.18155@welearn.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="-1031644250-269167349-907563944=:29852" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ---1031644250-269167349-907563944=:29852 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 4 Oct, Sue Blake wrote: > Meanwhile you (and others) could consider helping out in any other ways > that might interest you. The FreeBSD Documentation Project > http://www.freebsd.org/projects/docproj.html has lots of jobs... Just tried to find this page, with no luck. The correct URL seems to be: http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross -- Water Studies Centre, Monash University Random thought #59 (Collect all 231) He's dead Jim, you get the tricorder and I'll grab his wallet. ---1031644250-269167349-907563944=:29852 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQB1AwUBNhhToGAiycRwLbVJAQFmMwMAmI7JiDmcGxGN9uWloV/Zre49e6eBaRju AH9XrF4ZkjkiqRp4H82omg8fsHXVIdA9U2j6VQT1Cn6fNmxR18ZiY/HxPAN4OniJ FIZgG5Xe3LdQ6Wl0bHprX+4NHMXAe0GP =Fckq -----END PGP MESSAGE----- ---1031644250-269167349-907563944=:29852-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sun Oct 4 22:32:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08700 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:32:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from witch.xtra.co.nz (witch.xtra.co.nz [202.27.184.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08534 for ; Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:31:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker (210-55-210-87.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.55.210.87]) by witch.xtra.co.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA22951; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:29:44 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199810050529.SAA22951@witch.xtra.co.nz> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: DVL Software Limited To: Sue Blake Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:29:50 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: First commands Reply-to: junkmale@xtra.co.nz CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Oct 98, at 10:24, Sue Blake wrote: > Next month I'll be putting something together to help unix-newbies > deal with the horror of their first FreeBSD prompt :-) How about giving DOS commands and their UNIX equivalent? Apart from your list, I needed to know mount (for a floppy drive) ftp (for downloading) cat -- Dan Langille DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - my [mis]adventures http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 00:48:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25765 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.x-link.ml.org (ns2.x-link.ml.org [163.195.1.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25723 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:47:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from croftonc@PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA) Received: from wcpes.x-link.ml.org (wcpes.x-link.ml.org [163.195.20.11]) by ns2.x-link.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02162 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:48:11 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from croftonc@PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA) Received: from PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA (ccswc-ops.wcape.gov.za [164.151.102.250]) by wcpes.x-link.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06210 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:45:43 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199810050745.JAA06210@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Received: from PARACHUTE/SpoolDir by PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA (Mercury 1.21); 5 Oct 98 09:36:16 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by PARACHUTE (Mercury 1.21); 5 Oct 98 09:35:47 +0200 From: "CHARL" Organization: CCS WESTERN CAPE To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:35:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: First documentation X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi there..... I've been using BSD for 2 weeks now and would like to know anything from scratch. As this is the first time that I have even seen Unix I do not know any commands. Dos equivalent commands seem to me like the ones I would like to know. How to access my stiffy drive, view a certain file and what command to type in to shut me PC down. I get these wierd messages everytime I boot up again so obviously I am not doing something right. Basicly I only know the ls and pwd commands. So I guess all the basics would be helpful in very simple terms. Thanks CHARL CROFTON Central Computer Services - Govnet Western Cape South Africa Mail: croftonc@parachute.wcape.gov.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 01:47:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA03799 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:47:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA03762 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:46:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id SAA03548; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:46:07 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981005184601.35173@welearn.com.au> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:46:01 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: CHARL Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First documentation References: <199810050745.JAA06210@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199810050745.JAA06210@wcpes.x-link.ml.org>; from CHARL on Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 09:35:38AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 09:35:38AM +0200, CHARL wrote: > Hi there..... > > I've been using BSD for 2 weeks now and would like to know anything from > scratch. As this is the first time that I have even seen Unix I do not know > any commands. Dos equivalent commands seem to me like the ones I > would like to know. How to access my stiffy drive, view a certain file and > what command to type in to shut me PC down. I get these wierd messages > everytime I boot up again so obviously I am not doing something right. > > Basicly I only know the ls and pwd commands. So I guess all the basics > would be helpful in very simple terms. Oh boy, have we got a deal for you! :-) Start at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html where you will see our learning needs split into three areas, one of which is learning unix commands, and links to all sorts of useful stuff. You'll see a link there to the tutorial for people new to both freebsd and unix, perfect for you right now. Go there first! (HINT: At least read it before you turn your machine off next) There's other links about beginner's unix tutorials that you can move on to from there. The FreeBSD web site's support page mentions a few too, as does the Handbook (or the FAQ, or both?), and of course Yahoo! will tell you about lots more. One that a few of us have liked is called UNIXHelp, and there's copies of it all over the 'net. Watch out for translating directly from DOS to UNIX commands, there's a few gotchas. I seem to recall UNIXHelp has a section on this. Of course that will be general information, not specifically for FreeBSD, but it's not too far off. Let us know if you still can't find the right sort of documentation. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 02:25:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA09041 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from giga1.giganet.net (giga1.giganet.net [210.134.143.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA09019 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:24:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@giganet.net) Received: from jim ([210.134.143.118]) by giga1.giganet.net (8.9.1a/3.6W-98072422) with SMTP id SAA18143; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:22:29 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981005182413.007001dc@pop.giganet.net> X-Sender: jim@pop.giganet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:24:13 +0900 To: Sue Blake , CHARL From: James Tadahide Akiba Subject: Re: Commands Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981005184601.35173@welearn.com.au> References: <199810050745.JAA06210@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> <199810050745.JAA06210@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey another suggestion... I had suggested Xwindows info, well with that... what about setting up a webrowser on your BSD box... What better way to look up more commands than to be using the machine you need them for anyways... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 03:29:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA17309 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fire.dreams.eu.org (fire.dreams.eu.org [194.89.15.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA17290 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:29:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org) Received: (qmail 5356 invoked by uid 502); 5 Oct 1998 10:29:04 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:29:04 +0300 (EET DST) From: Viljo Hakala X-Sender: vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org To: Sue Blake cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > cd > pwd > mkdir > ls > cp > mv > rm > more > exit > date > df > more > du > /stand/sysinstall > ee > man > locate > find > nethack > ps > kill > top > pkg_add > pkg_info > gcc, chown, chmod, mount/unmount, mail, finger, who, piping (|), telnet, ssh, at/atq/atrm, grep, xargs, whois, tar, gzip, file, sed, su/sudo, compress/uncompress, sleep, vi, uname, ping, cat, echo, ln, rmdir, stty, less/zless, fsck, fdisk, ifconfig, mkfs, mkswap, reboot, shutdown, adduser, crontab, ftp, lpr/lpq/lprm, talk, write, traceroute, make, bc, host, nslookup, irc, killall, skill, last, man, mesg, passwd, patch, rlogin, uptime, job processing (for/background), time, touch, zip/unzip, wall are all good for starters. Reg. Viljo Hakala To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 03:39:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18149 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:39:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fire.dreams.eu.org (fire.dreams.eu.org [194.89.15.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id DAA18142 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org) Received: (qmail 5483 invoked by uid 502); 5 Oct 1998 10:39:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:39:22 +0300 (EET DST) From: Viljo Hakala X-Sender: vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org To: Greg Lehey cc: Anders , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Commands In-Reply-To: <19981005112935.P2545@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all > > of those commands :-). > > I've been using UNIX for 12 years now, and I still haven't used all > the commands. Isn't it nice to have a system that you don't grow out > of? > That's sad from one point of a view. You possibly can't grow out of OS variants such as unixes, because of the environment it provides. Efficient, maybe free, and an excellent platform for software develepment. I live with UNIX, and have been using such for 4 years and yet, I used all of the commands and more provided the system and packets in a period of one week. t. vh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 06:19:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04144 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:19:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA04138 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:19:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA18446; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:48:55 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id WAA28884; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:48:49 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981005224849.Q27781@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:48:49 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Viljo Hakala Cc: Anders , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Commands References: <19981005112935.P2545@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Viljo Hakala on Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 01:39:22PM +0300 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 5 October 1998 at 13:39:22 +0300, Viljo Hakala wrote: >>> Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all >>> of those commands :-). >> >> I've been using UNIX for 12 years now, and I still haven't used all >> the commands. Isn't it nice to have a system that you don't grow out >> of? > > That's sad from one point of a view. I don't see it. Care to explain? > You possibly can't grow out of OS variants such as unixes, because of the > environment it provides. Efficient, maybe free, and an excellent > platform for software develepment. Agreed. > I live with UNIX, and have been using such for 4 years and yet, I used all > of the commands and more provided the system and packets in a period of > one week. Interesting. What did you do with them? Check out these man pages (section 1, commands). They're not all of them, just the ones that don't immediately ring a bell with me: addftinfo bdes btreeop c2ph checknr cjpeg ckdist colldef compile_et crunchide ctm_dequeue ctm_rmail ctm_smail dbg djpeg file2c gcore genclass getNAME grolj4 h2ph h2xs htpasswd.1 idprio (sorry, I got bored round i). The point is, UNIX is a language. Like in English, you don't need to understand all the words until you find yourself in a situation which requires them. I do think I have a reasonable understanding of UNIX, but I don't pretend to understand everything. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 06:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07773 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:48:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tekincisnts-4.teklogix.com ([207.219.2.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07767 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from SW47 ([10.64.5.146]) by tekincisnts-4.teklogix.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 4D64WSLJ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:48:04 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981005094804.0090aa30@spectre.honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@spectre.honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:48:04 -0400 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Marty Poulin Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:24 AM 10/5/98 +1000, Sue Blake wrote: >Here we go, another survey... ... >OK, what are your picks for the most essential/useful commands for >a raw newbie? And what commands are screaming out for a simple example >of their use? Here's a starting list. What's missing? > I'd add tail and grep to the list (with a good explanation of what exactly grep does - I'm still not entirely sure) Also a very basic vi tutorial so that people can edit files. M. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 07:21:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12808 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from laker.net (jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12787 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfriedri@laker.net) Received: from nt (digital-pbi-124.laker.net [208.0.233.24]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.LAKERNET.NO-SPAM.SPAMMERS.AND.RELAYS.WILL.BE.TRACKED.AND.PROSECUTED.) with SMTP id KAA10542; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:21:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199810051421.KAA10542@laker.net> From: "Steve Friedrich" To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Sue Blake" Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 10:20:20 -0400 Reply-To: "Steve Friedrich" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: First commands Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:24:13 +1000, Sue Blake wrote: >OK, what are your picks for the most essential/useful commands for >a raw newbie? And what commands are screaming out for a simple example >of their use? Here's a starting list. What's missing? At the top of the list, IMHO, should be apropos (yea, like anyone will remember how to spell it ;o) If you had learned apropos early, you could have tried apropos space, informing you about df and other commands. Much of this material is already covered quite nicely in Greg's book. Why do we need to create more documentation that won't be read? I guess it may get read because it will be free (poor Greg, his royalties may fall off). Unix systems measure "uptime" in years, Winblows measures it in minutes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 08:05:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA19982 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA19974 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale.we.mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA01828 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990204081205.0069e524@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 08:12:05 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: References: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:29 PM 10/5/98 +0300, Viljo Hakala wrote: >> cd >> pwd >> mkdir >> ls >> cp >> mv >> rm >> more >> exit >> date >> df >> more >> du >> /stand/sysinstall >> ee >> man >> locate >> find >> nethack >> ps >> kill >> top >> pkg_add >> pkg_info >> >gcc, chown, chmod, mount/unmount, mail, finger, who, piping (|), telnet, >ssh, at/atq/atrm, grep, xargs, whois, tar, gzip, file, sed, su/sudo, >compress/uncompress, sleep, vi, uname, ping, cat, echo, ln, rmdir, stty, >less/zless, fsck, fdisk, ifconfig, mkfs, mkswap, reboot, shutdown, >adduser, crontab, ftp, lpr/lpq/lprm, talk, write, traceroute, make, bc, >host, nslookup, irc, killall, skill, last, man, mesg, passwd, patch, >rlogin, uptime, job processing (for/background), time, touch, zip/unzip, >wall are all good for starters. > Woah, there's alot of "experience required" commands up there, but at least their good to know. One that you may have forgotten is 'tail -f' which is a great tool for looking at /var/log/messages. But you also have a pretty good list there. I've used most of those but not all of them. Joey bear Garcia >Reg. > >Viljo Hakala > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 08:12:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA21377 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us ([209.129.95.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21365 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us) Received: from luciamar.k12.ca.us (intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us [209.129.95.252]) by intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA23939 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36187F8E.F2FBEB4@luciamar.k12.ca.us> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 08:13:02 +0000 From: David Knapp Organization: LMUSD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: First Commands Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I would add apropos to the list too. -- David Knapp 805 473-4353 PC Network Specialist dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us LMUSD "Everything you know is wrong" F.T. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 09:21:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02948 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from giga1.giganet.net (giga1.giganet.net [210.134.143.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02942 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@giganet.net) Received: from jim-laptop (tokyo-128-16.giganet.net [210.134.128.16]) by giga1.giganet.net (8.9.1a/3.6W-98072422) with SMTP id BAA27922 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:21:18 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981006012131.007bde90@pop.giganet.net> X-Sender: jim@pop.giganet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 01:21:31 +0900 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: "James Akiba (from laptop)" Subject: Re: first commands and stuff In-Reply-To: <19981005224849.Q27781@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19981005112935.P2545@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Monday, 5 October 1998 at 13:39:22 +0300, Viljo Hakala wrote: >>>> Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all >>>> of those commands :-). >>> >>> I've been using UNIX for 12 years now, and I still haven't used all >>> the commands. Isn't it nice to have a system that you don't grow out >>> of? >> >> That's sad from one point of a view. I really think that this was poorly phrased unless it was intended as an attack, I will hope that it wasn't since I think none of us subscribe to this listserv to listen to anyone attack others, or simply boast about their own abilities (whatever they should be) ENOUGH of that... in regards to some of the command suggestions brought up... as I understand it (being a week old newbie as I am) UNIX gurus wouldn't be caught dead using an editor like ee (with it's *gasp* menus etc.) All of the guys here at work use vi... and as they try to help me (like when I was building my first custom kernel) they would always open up vi and start FLYING through things.... lines would literally disappear, reappear, the cursor would jump around the screen like a bee on crack... and when the flurry was over... I would have no clue what I just saw, and would be too embarrased to ask... They say: "wakkata?" ... I say: "Uh... oh... yeah... thanks..." So what do you folks think... is it worth it to learn vi over ee? Is it much more powerful or flexible than say ee? >Much of this material is already covered quite nicely in Greg's book. >Why do we need to create more documentation that won't be read? I >guess it may get read because it will be free (poor Greg, his royalties >may fall off). Speaking for myself, I am really glad to see this start... I am working in Japan, and the price of the book is... I am sure... high (if available without having to order from an int'l store)... any help I can get for free and online is greatly appreciated! Besides there is something about helping people you don't know, I get alot out of it(in regards to my areas NOT freeBSD hehe) ... can't pinpoint it, but it is one of my favorite parts of being "online" :) And if I find Greg's book and it won't deprive me of my next meal or rent money I'll be sure to pick it up... BTW could someone with the book give me any details (ISBN# publisher, etc) -Jim PS what the heck is "nethack"? I have no man pages for it... sounds great anyways... hehe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 09:45:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07398 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07377 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA00297; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:44:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:44:19 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199810051644.JAA00297@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: frank@khmere.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Newbies user groups in LA area In-Reply-To: <36170867.16CFAC54@khmere.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 22:32:23 -0700 >From: Nathan >I want to see if their are any people in the LA area that you know of >that have a user group or are interested in starting one? Well, assuming that you're referring to Los Angeles, California (vs. the state of Louisiana; I don't recall if "LA" is a valid ISO country designator), it's possible that UUASC (UNIX Users' Assn. of Southern California) might be appropriate. (I used to be involved with the Orange County branch of UUASC before I moved to Redwood City.) I'll also put a plug in here for involvement in USENIX -- IMO, the *BSD community has a lot in common, and a lot in common with the USENIX community, and you can learn a lot obout UNIX in general this way... as well as help introduce others to FreeBSD. Further, a disproportionately high fraction of the folks who use FreeBSD also have the (dubious) "honor" of acting as (their own) sysadmins. Thus, I believe that many users of FreeBSD may well find SAGE activities (such as the LISA conferences) of (significant) interest. And in some communities, there are sysadmin (support) groups -- here in the San Francisco Bay Area, there's BayLISA (several of whose members were instrumental in getting SAGE started). david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 10:37:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19169 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19159 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:36:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA00651; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:35:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:35:48 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199810051735.KAA00651@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, sue@welearn.com.au Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'd include "echo" as a "must know about". I'd elide "nethack" (as much as I enjoy the game, at least during this time of the month -- full moon improves one's luck). I also have never found a use for "ee", but then, I've been using "vi" (& other editors with a similar heritage) since '86. Still, for anyone who is likely to be working with any other flavors of UNIX, I would be *very* hard-pressed to recommend spending the time to learn "ee". "sed" is also something I find critical; also, I'd recommend something that might indicate to the reader that a (non-default) shell may be invoked just like any other program, and that docs for shells are also available via "man". Oh -- a couple more: ifconfig (as in "ifconfig -a") & netstat (as in "netstat -nr"). Those are critical for anyone with a machine that is on a network, I'd think. One I was surprised to see on the list is "locate" -- I don't think I'd ever heard of it; I'm fairly certain I've never used it. (Just checked a Solaris 2.5 system; no such command. Maybe "locate" is FreeBSD (or 4.4 BSD) -specific?) I think that'll do for the nonce, david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 11:04:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23622 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:04:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fire.dreams.eu.org (fire.dreams.eu.org [194.89.15.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA22957 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org) Received: (qmail 8587 invoked by uid 502); 5 Oct 1998 18:01:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:01:43 +0300 (EET DST) From: Viljo Hakala X-Sender: vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990204081205.0069e524@we.mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [snip] > > Woah, there's alot of "experience required" commands up there, but at least > their good to know. One that you may have forgotten is 'tail -f' which is > a great tool for looking at /var/log/messages. But you also have a pretty > good list there. I've used most of those but not all of them. > Of course some had to be forgotten, so that someone could fill 'em up, right? =) Not really. Tail is a must tool eg. for a file checking. Tail -n is kinda usefull too =) hmm.. it's hard to remember the time I was a plain newbie playing around...(still am playing around though :)) But so far I would say, that these are the basic commands to get a long a bit longer with any unix system Greetings from the cold Finland, vh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 11:24:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27143 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:24:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fire.dreams.eu.org (fire.dreams.eu.org [194.89.15.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA27006 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org) Received: (qmail 8706 invoked by uid 502); 5 Oct 1998 18:23:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:23:39 +0300 (EET DST) From: Viljo Hakala X-Sender: vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org Reply-To: Viljo Hakala To: "James Akiba \(from laptop\)" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: first commands and stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006012131.007bde90@pop.giganet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> That's sad from one point of a view. > > I really think that this was poorly phrased unless it was intended as an > attack, I will hope that it wasn't since I think none of us subscribe to > this listserv to listen to anyone attack others, or simply boast about > their own abilities (whatever they should be) > It is no way meant as an attack, or harrasment. I chose very poor, wrong words to describe what I meant, and actually I should not have said anything at the first place. It really was unnecessary. But at least I got myself to look stupid in front of you all. I dont want to boast, brag with my knowledge, if I even happen to have any. I understand what I said was out of the line, irrelevant, irresponsible, and yet stupid. It will not happen ever again, and that's a promise. I already sent an apology to Mr. Lehoy, and now I apologize the whole list, and deeply regret any inconviece,offence, caused by me. I hope the list, and Mr. Lehoy can forgive me. Really. > PS what the heck is "nethack"? I have no man pages for it... sounds great > anyways... hehe Nethack is a role game, like rogue. Check your packages/ports directory. t.. vh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 11:52:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02172 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:52:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02092 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/08/04 5.11)) id OAA05660; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:51:51 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from default (ts001d04.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.16]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.8.8) id OAA26878; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:51:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3619168B.4CFB@concentric.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:57:15 -0600 From: ML Duke Reply-To: mlduke@concentric.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CHARL CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First documentation References: <199810050745.JAA06210@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > what command to type in to shut me PC down. Haden't thought of that upon seeing the original message. sync; sync; sync; shutdown -r now came as a revelation. cat filename | more to read a file helped a great deal and ls -x* where x is any letter helped as well. also ls | more so as to not miss a file in a large directory. Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 12:17:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08595 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:17:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08572 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21948; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <36191A6F.DA1B1D9@dal.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:13:51 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0929 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Friedrich CC: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: First commands References: <199810051421.KAA10542@laker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Friedrich wrote: > At the top of the list, IMHO, should be apropos (yea, like anyone will > remember how to spell it ;o) On most BSD's 'apropos' and 'whatis' do basically the same thing (which actually is unfortunate because they are intended to do slightly different but equally valuable functions). > Much of this material is already covered quite nicely in Greg's book. > Why do we need to create more documentation that won't be read? Some people aren't happy with a project unless it's their own original work. However I'm all for anything that produces good documentation. Marty Poulin wrote: > I'd add tail and grep to the list (with a good explanation of what exactly > grep does - I'm still not entirely sure) Grep is a *wonderful* tool, and is well worth taking the time to learn. The basic concept is that you use grep to find a word or phrase in a file or group of files. I use it literally dozens of times a day. Let's say that you get a weird error message that you don't understand and you want to find out where in the code that error comes from. cd /usr/src grep -iR "exact copy of weird error message" * The -i flag uses a case insensitive search, and the -R flag means to recurse down into the directory structure from /usr/src/ down. Once you've found out where that error occurs it might lead you to a solution to your problem. The quotes are needed around the phrase to tell grep that you are searching for those words as a unit. Another thing grep is good for is finding everything BUT a certain thing. Say for example that you want to find out what lines in your inetd.conf file are not commented out. Use, 'grep -v ^# /etc/inetd.conf' and you will get the list. The -v option tells grep to show every line that does not have the pattern. The ^ character stands for the beginning of the line, and the # is the literal # character. Hope this helps, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 13:34:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA25500 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:34:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25493 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:34:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23043; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <36192D32.34B99F7@dal.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:33:54 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0929 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands References: <199810051735.KAA00651@pau-amma.whistle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm in general agreement with your post, just a few comments. David Wolfskill wrote: > "sed" is also something I find critical Me too, but the learning curve for anything beyond very simple replacements is huge which is why I wouldn't include it in a list for new users. I'd place this in the "intermediate" category, to be learned after or concurrent with regular expressions. > One I was surprised to see on the list is "locate" -- I don't think > I'd ever heard of it; I'm fairly certain I've never used it. (Just > checked a Solaris 2.5 system; no such command. Maybe "locate" is > FreeBSD (or 4.4 BSD) -specific?) Locate is your friend! It's extremely useful if you often have to hunt for things on the disk (as new users often do). It's also very useful in a situation where more than one person is administrating a machine and they have... differing admin styles. *grumble grumble.. where did he put that file THIS week? grumble* And yes, it's a BSD'ism, one that I sorely miss on the solaris boxes that I do a lot of work on. :-/ Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 13:52:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA00560 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fishnavy.inf.cu (mail.fishnavy.inf.cu [169.158.232.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00505 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from josefa@fishnavy.inf.cu) Received: from jiglesia.fishnavy.inf.cu by fishnavy.inf.cu with smtp (Smail3.2 #1) id m0zQHPn-00061GC; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:39:31 -0500 (CST) Message-ID: <001201bdf0a0$2f418aa0$52e89ea9@jiglesia.fishnavy.inf.cu> From: "Josefa Iglesias" To: Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:39:00 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 14:16:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02848 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02753 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:15:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: from direct-source.com.direct-source.com (ppp91.pm3-0.pdx.dsinw.com [207.149.41.91]) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24069; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:07:56 -0700 () From: Rick Hamell To: "James Akiba (from laptop)" cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: first commands and stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006012131.007bde90@pop.giganet.net> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: hamellr@direct-source.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > would be too embarrased to ask... They say: "wakkata?" ... I say: "Uh... > oh... yeah... thanks..." So what do you folks think... is it worth it to > learn vi over ee? Is it much more powerful or flexible than say ee? The theory behind learning vi is that EVERY unix system has it. It makes it that much easier to go between different flavors very easily. > freeBSD hehe) ... can't pinpoint it, but it is one of my favorite parts of > being "online" :) And if I find Greg's book and it won't deprive me of my > next meal or rent money I'll be sure to pick it up... BTW could someone > with the book give me any details (ISBN# publisher, etc) I believe if you goto www.cdrom.com and check out the actual price, you'd be pretty surprised what it'll cost you. It's a tad bit expensive yes, but I have a hard time imagining shipping being MORE then $20 for it. > PS what the heck is "nethack"? I have no man pages for it... sounds great > anyways... hehe It's a game I believe....:) I think Sue is addicted to it... *grin* Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 14:36:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05767 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gandhi.roma ([128.58.111.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05583 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:35:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from smendoza@juriscompint.com) Received: from juriscompint.com ([128.58.111.30]) by gandhi.roma (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id 106; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:51:02 -0400 Message-ID: <36193B1F.A03FDCB4@juriscompint.com> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:33:19 -0400 From: "Simon Mendoza" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands References: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org how about shutdown reboot greetings Simon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 15:22:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15957 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:22:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA15935 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:22:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@grey.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au) Message-Id: <199810052222.PAA15935@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: First documentation To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:22:25 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" In-Reply-To: <3619168B.4CFB@concentric.net> from "ML Duke" at Oct 5, 98 12:57:15 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > cat filename | more Or you could just use "more filename" if you don't like typing :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 16:39:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02612 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay04.netaddress.usa.net (relay04.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.184]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA02607 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:39:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: (qmail 15905 invoked from network); 5 Oct 1998 23:39:40 -0000 Received: from www0a.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.30) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 1998 23:39:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 9060 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Oct 1998 23:39:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19981005233940.9059.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 199.190.198.20 by mail.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Mon Oct 5 23:39:40 GMT 1998 Date: 5 Oct 98 16:39:40 PDT From: gekk0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Re: First commands] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You can use 'whereis' on solaris...basically the same thing. regards, kevin One I was surprised to see on the list is "locate" -- I don't think I'd ever heard of it; I'm fairly certain I've never used it. (Just checked a Solaris 2.5 system; no such command. Maybe "locate" is FreeBSD (or 4.4 BSD) -specific?) I think that'll do for the nonce, david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 17:00:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07192 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:00:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cepheus.azstarnet.com (cepheus.azstarnet.com [169.197.56.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07122 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rpratt@azstarnet.com) Received: from win95.rpratt.azstarnet.com (dialup05ip098.tus.azstarnet.com [169.197.32.98]) by cepheus.azstarnet.com (8.8.5-nerd/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23060 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:00:22 -0700 (MST) X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981005165643.007b56d0@pop.azstarnet.com> X-Sender: rpratt@pop.azstarnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 16:56:43 -0700 To: From: Randy Pratt Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:24 AM 10/5/98 +1000, Sue Blake wrote: >Next month I'll be putting something together to help unix-newbies >deal with the horror of their first FreeBSD prompt :-) I'm new to the list as well as FreeBSD. Seeing that first prompt (Friday, February 27, 1998, at 2:04 PM MST) was as much of a thrill as hearing the first radio station on a crystal radio I built fourty years ago. Of course, I didn't know what to do next or the knowledge to fully understand what the man pages were telling me. Greg Lehey's book kept me moving in the right directions and a unix/shell basics book was certainly handy. I'm sure I spent more time reading than anything else. The original list posted has most of the shell commands I used in the first couple of weeks to get my system running with X and few applications. The additional ones I used that have been mentioned already were: mount umount shutdown tar fsck I needed to make a few symbolic links, so perhaps include: ln I used vi as a text editor but any would serve the purpose for making changes to configuration files. Randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 17:08:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08866 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08794 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA05901; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:07:39 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981006100727.44412@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:07:28 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: "James Akiba (from laptop)" Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: first commands and stuff References: <19981005112935.P2545@freebie.lemis.com> <19981005224849.Q27781@freebie.lemis.com> <3.0.5.32.19981006012131.007bde90@pop.giganet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006012131.007bde90@pop.giganet.net>; from James Akiba (from laptop) on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 01:21:31AM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 01:21:31AM +0900, James Akiba (from laptop) wrote: > >On Monday, 5 October 1998 at 13:39:22 +0300, Viljo Hakala wrote: > >>>> Haha, I've been using FreeBSD for a month now and I still havent used all > >>>> of those commands :-). > >>> > >>> I've been using UNIX for 12 years now, and I still haven't used all > >>> the commands. Isn't it nice to have a system that you don't grow out > >>> of? > >> > >> That's sad from one point of a view. > > I really think that this was poorly phrased unless it was intended as an > attack, I will hope that it wasn't since I think none of us subscribe to > this listserv to listen to anyone attack others, or simply boast about > their own abilities (whatever they should be) > > ENOUGH of that... in regards to some of the command suggestions brought > up... as I understand it (being a week old newbie as I am) UNIX gurus > wouldn't be caught dead using an editor like ee (with it's *gasp* menus > etc.) All of the guys here at work use vi... and as they try to help me > (like when I was building my first custom kernel) they would always open up > vi and start FLYING through things.... lines would literally disappear, > reappear, the cursor would jump around the screen like a bee on crack... > and when the flurry was over... I would have no clue what I just saw, and > would be too embarrased to ask... They say: "wakkata?" ... I say: "Uh... > oh... yeah... thanks..." So what do you folks think... is it worth it to > learn vi over ee? Is it much more powerful or flexible than say ee? Pssst... secretly learn ed, pick up a bit of speed, and then dazzle them back :-) I wrote an article on the reasons for selecting different editors in this month's Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org/ which includes some comments on ee plus enough about ed to get you started if you're keen to get your own back at work. > >Much of this material is already covered quite nicely in Greg's book. > >Why do we need to create more documentation that won't be read? I > >guess it may get read because it will be free (poor Greg, his royalties > >may fall off). > > Speaking for myself, I am really glad to see this start... I am working in > Japan, and the price of the book is... I am sure... high (if available > without having to order from an int'l store)... any help I can get for free > and online is greatly appreciated! Besides there is something about helping > people you don't know, I get alot out of it(in regards to my areas NOT > freeBSD hehe) ... can't pinpoint it, but it is one of my favorite parts of > being "online" :) And if I find Greg's book and it won't deprive me of my > next meal or rent money I'll be sure to pick it up... BTW could someone > with the book give me any details (ISBN# publisher, etc) There's a link to its details on the newbies page http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html Yes it's probably more expensive if you're not in the USA, but well worth it. Regarding documentation in general, it is possible to duplicate topics without duplicating effort. Documents in different locations or for different purposes have different styles, and some styles suit some people better than others. It's a real shame if two people are working on the same thing at the same time, so we use freebsd-doc to check what's going on and either team up or select something else. That way we get best coverage of topics in the Handbook etc. There are parts of Greg's book that I found either easier or more difficult to understand than other documentation such as the on line tutorials. In all cases I've informed the authors of where I got lost and suggested how it could be improved for my brain angle, and in each case they have been *very* grateful. Nobody seems to mind in the slightest that there are alternatives around either. I'm writing some documentation, preparing a package for newbies to use right after installation, and looking at ways to provide something more accessible than man pages possibly by extending that psh thing that Mike Smith told us about. You won't see any of this for a couple of months, but it's happening slowly. I have received so much help from so many individuals and project teams that I want to be able to give something back to them all, especially the Documentation Project, so that others who benefit might be inspired to contribute too. Not everyone feels this way, and that's OK. We all do what we want to and if people happen to like it, that's great. > PS what the heck is "nethack"? I have no man pages for it... sounds great > anyways... hehe Sorry, I only put it in there for a joke, to see if anyone was reading, and to keep David Wolfskill happy :-) -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 18:20:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA26393 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA26377 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:19:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale.we.mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA02560; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990204182631.006978b8@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:26:31 -0800 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, sue@welearn.com.au Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <199810051735.KAA00651@pau-amma.whistle.com> References: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:35 AM 10/5/98 -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: >I also have never found a use for "ee", but then, I've been using "vi" >(& other editors with a similar heritage) since '86. Still, for anyone >who is likely to be working with any other flavors of UNIX, I would be >*very* hard-pressed to recommend spending the time to learn "ee". "the time to learn ee"? I think that most people could spare a minute (literally) to look over the control commands on the top of the "ee" screen. It's really not hard to use, and for newbies that's a definate plus. Joey bear Garcia >-- >David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator >dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 20:29:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA16994 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:29:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pelion.trump.net.au (pelion.trump.net.au [203.17.184.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16980 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from georger@cuftas.com.au) Received: from dialup.cuftas.com.au ([203.39.138.147]) by pelion.trump.net.au (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12323 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:28:49 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981006142444.006909ec@po.cuftas.com.au> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:24:44 +1100 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Ross George Subject: Re: [Re: First commands] In-Reply-To: <19981005233940.9059.qmail@www0a.netaddress.usa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 16:39 5/10/98 PDT, you wrote: >You can use 'whereis' on solaris...basically the same thing. > >regards, >kevin > Another handy command is "which". - usefull if you have a very long PATH, or if you are using different copies of the same program. e.g: which pwd /usr/bin/pwd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 20:59:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA20868 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:59:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20861 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@concentric.net) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/08/04 5.11)) id XAA10603; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:58:58 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from default (ts001d22.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.34]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id XAA04926; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <36199578.67D4@concentric.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:58:48 -0600 From: ML Duke Reply-To: mlduke@concentric.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Henry CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First documentation References: <199810052222.PAA15935@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Michael Henry wrote: > > > > > cat filename | more > > Or you could just use "more filename" if you don't like typing :) This is getting usefull. Thanks. Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Oct 5 22:33:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA08195 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:33:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from laker.net (jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08190 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:33:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sfriedri@laker.net) Received: from nt (digital-fll-110.laker.net [205.245.75.10]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.LAKERNET.NO-SPAM.SPAMMERS.AND.RELAYS.WILL.BE.TRACKED.AND.PROSECUTED.) with SMTP id BAA20567; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:33:17 -0400 Message-Id: <199810060533.BAA20567@laker.net> From: "Steve Friedrich" To: "freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG" , "Ross George" Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 01:01:23 -0400 Reply-To: "Steve Friedrich" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Re: First commands] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:24:44 +1100, Ross George wrote: > Another handy command is "which". - usefull if you have a very long PATH, >or if you are using different copies of the same program. Especially when you're using a second version of a program unwittingly ;o) Unix systems measure "uptime" in years, Winblows measures it in minutes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 00:02:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19247 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns2.x-link.ml.org (ns2.x-link.ml.org [163.195.1.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19157 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from croftonc@PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA) Received: from wcpes.x-link.ml.org (wcpes.x-link.ml.org [163.195.20.11]) by ns2.x-link.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12153 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:03:01 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from croftonc@PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA) Received: from PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA (ccswc-ops.wcape.gov.za [164.151.102.250]) by wcpes.x-link.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03450 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:00:31 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199810060700.JAA03450@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Received: from PARACHUTE/SpoolDir by PARACHUTE.WCAPE.GOV.ZA (Mercury 1.21); 6 Oct 98 08:51:04 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by PARACHUTE (Mercury 1.21); 6 Oct 98 08:47:21 +0200 From: "CHARL" Organization: CCS WESTERN CAPE To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:47:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: First Documentation X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wow...... What a great reply of commands. Thanks all for your input and to Sue a great big thank you for the help that you've been giving.I am looking forward to your new project fo rnewbies. I am currently busy with all these new stuff now, trying the commands and trying to understand them.So hold thumbs people. Just one question : Someone mentioned to me that I must use 'screen' for multitasking <----- is this the same as the vitual console or am I missing something here? Thanks again Cheers CHARL CROFTON Central Computer Services - Govnet Western Cape South Africa Mail: croftonc@parachute.wcape.gov.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 00:57:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26344 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cyclops.xtra.co.nz (cyclops.xtra.co.nz [202.27.184.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA26337 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker (210-55-210-87.ipnets.xtra.co.nz [210.55.210.87]) by cyclops.xtra.co.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA14599; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:56:34 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199810060756.UAA14599@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> From: "Dan Langille" Organization: DVL Software Limited To: Sue Blake Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:56:34 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: First commands Reply-to: junkmale@xtra.co.nz CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Oct 98, at 10:24, Sue Blake wrote: > OK, what are your picks for the most essential/useful commands for > a raw newbie? And what commands are screaming out for a simple example of > their use? Here's a starting list. What's missing? I've had a worry. Is this too big? -- Dan Langille DVL Software Limited The FreeBSD Diary - my [mis]adventures http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 01:29:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA02120 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA02107 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:29:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id SAA07840; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:29:38 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981006182933.39282@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:29:33 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [FWD: October BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) Meeting] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gee, some lucky people live in the right place! -----Forwarded message from Josef Grosch ----- Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 19:42:43 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: announce@bafug.org Subject: October BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) Meeting Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- BAFUG -- The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, October 8. This months meeting will be held at The Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will tag-team on the topic of TCP wrappers. TCP Wrappers, which is part of our ports collection, is a package to monitor and filter incoming service requests at an IP layer. Hence it is very handy in security work. ==> Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on October 24 at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Cow Palace in Daly City. This Install-a-thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux) See http://www.bafug.org/Install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow Palace. ==> bafug.org is off and running! Thanks to Jan Koum and Nicole Harrington. The FreeBSD Retail page and Counter page have been moved to this site. Suggestions are welcome. ==> Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a test machine for use at the Install-a-thons. ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By Muni: Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights stop nearby. By BART: Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, on the right (south) side. By Car: From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html http://www.reef.com http://www.freebsd-support.com http://www.bafug.org/Install.html Contact: Please contact either Ian Kallen, Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before October 8th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com $Id: Oct98Announce.txt,v 1.2 1998/10/03 12:08:57 jgrosch Exp jgrosch $ -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -----End of forwarded message----- -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 01:52:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA05290 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:52:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA05284 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:52:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id SAA07904; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:52:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981006185159.56728@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:51:59 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: CHARL Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First Documentation References: <199810060700.JAA03450@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199810060700.JAA03450@wcpes.x-link.ml.org>; from CHARL on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:47:16AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:47:16AM +0200, CHARL wrote: > Wow...... > > What a great reply of commands. Thanks all for your input and to Sue a > great big thank you for the help that you've been giving.I am looking forward > to your new project fo rnewbies. I am currently busy with all these new stuff > now, trying the commands and trying to understand them.So hold thumbs > people. Great :-) One thing I've always lacked most has been ideas about what is safe to try next (without being thrown into the hard stuff). Some of the suggested commands are too advanced or specialised to bother with in the beginning, but the majority of the suggestions, those that make immediate sense to you, will probably be useful. > Just one question : Someone mentioned to me that I must use 'screen' for > multitasking <----- is this the same as the vitual console or am I missing > something here? Perhaps if I explain how I use it. For years I dialled into a shell account from my DOS box. Of course, I could only run one program at a time. That wasn't a big problem, because I only knew half a dozen unix commands anyway. They seemed enough at the time. When I was reading mail on the remote unix machine, and wanted to 'talk' to someone else on the system, I had to get out of pine first. Suspending was an option that I found too tricky to bother with. Then I discovered screen. I'd dial in, log in, and then run screen as soon as I got the prompt. At any time later on I could press a key to create another "screen". In effect it was like using a few virtual consoles on a local FreeBSD machine (alt-F2 etc), but doing it on the remote machine. These screens don't appear as windows, just one at a time, but it's quick and easy to flip between them. I could have mail in one, news in another, talk in a third, and a fourth just sitting at a prompt. All in a single login from my 286 with a 2400bps modem :-) If you're sitting at the unix machine, rather than dialling into one, you don't have much use for screen. There's many more convenient ways to multitask locally. These days I use screen locally before telnetting into a linux system where it expects me to have vt100 rather than cons25. Screen gives me a quick temporary vt100 on my end, matching the remote end, and makes all the arrows and function keys work on the Linux full screen programs. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 02:36:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA11276 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:36:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11250 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:35:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id TAA07998; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:35:31 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981006193526.25142@welearn.com.au> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:35:26 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands References: <19981005102413.55925@welearn.com.au> <199810060756.UAA14599@cyclops.xtra.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199810060756.UAA14599@cyclops.xtra.co.nz>; from Dan Langille on Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:56:34PM +1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 08:56:34PM +1300, Dan Langille wrote: > On 5 Oct 98, at 10:24, Sue Blake wrote: > > > OK, what are your picks for the most essential/useful commands for > > a raw newbie? And what commands are screaming out for a simple example of > > their use? Here's a starting list. What's missing? > > I've had a worry. Is this too big? Yes, it is too much to present as a single list, but don't worry, it'll get sorted and whittled down. Ten would be enough new commands to hear about all at once, if that was the idea. I'm thinking of a lookup thing so the more the merrier, if they are _real_beginner_ stuff. We're getting some great suggestions. Did someone mention grep already? Let the brainstorming continue... -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 05:40:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA09291 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 05:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fire.dreams.eu.org (fire.dreams.eu.org [194.89.15.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA09073 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 05:40:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org) Received: (qmail 21810 invoked by uid 502); 6 Oct 1998 12:39:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:39:56 +0300 (EET DST) From: Viljo Hakala X-Sender: vipe@fire.dreams.eu.org To: David Wolfskill cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <199810051735.KAA00651@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, David Wolfskill wrote: > > One I was surprised to see on the list is "locate" -- I don't think > I'd ever heard of it; I'm fairly certain I've never used it. (Just > checked a Solaris 2.5 system; no such command. Maybe "locate" is > FreeBSD (or 4.4 BSD) -specific?) > Locate comes from 4.4. BSD tree. You may have found on Sun platforms that there are 'which' and 'whereis' commands, which are both similar to 'locate'. t. vh To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 07:51:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00368 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:51:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from min.net (min.net [208.222.210.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA00360 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:51:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aling@alum.mit.edu) Received: from localhost (outpost.cc.nih.gov [137.187.245.138]) by min.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26171 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199810061451.KAA26171@min.net> From: "A. Ling" To: "freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org" Date: Tue, 06 Oct 98 10:50:42 -0400 Reply-To: "A. Ling" X-Mailer: Alexander Ling's Registered PMMail 1.53 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Alternative to FreeBSD email archive & 3 cheers for Sue Blake Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Apologies if this is the wrong place for this post. Having just read Sue Blake's fine newbies article at: http://www.daemonnews.org/newnewbies.html and followed the links to: http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/ http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html I am moved to comment that in the past, I've had trouble finding answers to questions (prior to posting to the -questions email list) at the official FreeBSD mail archive site: http://www.freebsd.org/search/search.html#mailinglists The main problem has been that search terms can turn up lots of questions similar to mine, yet no answers, even though I subsequently stumble across mail to the list which adresses the key issue, if not directly answers the question. Though it might turn out that there are better search terms I didnt know/think to use, I have also imagined (without proof) this might happen because people posting apt answers didnt quote the part of the question that contains the search terms, or the answer is on a different thread covering the same topic. In any event, an alternative, if sometimes slow, searchable archive for FreeBSD-questions is http://www.progressive-comp.com/Lists/ May someone out there find it useful, even if only occasionally! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 09:03:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA13994 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA13972 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA06420 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:02:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:02:31 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199810061602.JAA06420@pau-amma.whistle.com> Subject: Re: First commands Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:39:56 +0300 (EET DST) >From: Viljo Hakala >> One I was surprised to see on the list is "locate" -- I don't think >> I'd ever heard of it; I'm fairly certain I've never used it. (Just >> checked a Solaris 2.5 system; no such command. Maybe "locate" is >> FreeBSD (or 4.4 BSD) -specific?) >Locate comes from 4.4. BSD tree. Fair enough; my experience wich 4.4BSD(-derived) systems is limited. >You may have found on Sun platforms that there are 'which' and >'whereis' commands, which are both similar to 'locate'. Well; my perception is somewhat different. In csh (& tcsh), "which" invokes (another "csh" process) to determine the full pathname of a given command. (I happened to notice this when I placed a "which" invocation inside my ~/.cshrc -- it sourced .cshrc all over again, and if that's not properly controlled, an endless recursion may follow.) (There's a Perl script in /usr/bin/which, but csh & tcsh don't use it.) (*) BTW, I find "which" especially useful if I'm about to issue a command as root. Another nice thing about "which" is that if the command is found, it merely returns the pathname, so doing something like: ls -l `which ls` is a reasonable way to see some trivia about the version of the "ls" command that one happens to be executing (such as its size and when it was last modified). "whereis", on the other hand, looks in certain "standard" places for executables or man pages or sources, and reports the information is a format that is more suitable for human parsing than for insertion in commands. "locate" seems to rely on a database being constructed, and reports the results of a search through that database (vs. what happens to be on the file system(s) as of the time that "locate" is invoked). On the other hand, "find" prowls through the filesystem(s) in question, looking for whatever you asked for, and does whatever you specified; what it reports is based on the status of the filesystem(s) at the time you issue the command (vs. whenever a database-update program ran). These are all different tools for different needs. Footnotes: --------- * The reason I was doing such a pathological thing as invoking "which" within ~/.cshrc is that I have /bin/csh as my login shell, but I actually prefer to use /usr/local/bin/tcsh. Although I could change my login shell to tcsh, that would be a problem if I login to a machine that can't get to our (common) /usr/local, or if the NFS server is having problems, or several other things. Further, tcsh is basically a superset of csh. So I wrote some code in ~/.cshrc that would check to see if this reading of ~/.cshrc is being done by csh (vs. tcsh), and if so, would check to see if tcsh is available, and if so, would "exec tcsh". david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Oct 6 09:30:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20287 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19479 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA06545 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:26:24 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199810061626.JAA06545@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: First commands In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990204182631.006978b8@we.mediaone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net >Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:26:31 -0800 >At 10:35 AM 10/5/98 -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: >>I also have never found a use for "ee", but then, I've been using "vi" >>(& other editors with a similar heritage) since '86. Still, for anyone >>who is likely to be working with any other flavors of UNIX, I would be >>*very* hard-pressed to recommend spending the time to learn "ee". >"the time to learn ee"? I think that most people could spare a minute >(literally) to look over the control commands on the top of the "ee" >screen. It's really not hard to use, and for newbies that's a definate plus. Ummm.... By the time that I *realize* that I'm using "ee", I have done: * login as root * checked in (& checked out) a few /etc/* files * edited them (using vi, of course) * checked them back in * remembered that I need to put the NIS "magic cookie" in /etc/{master.,}passwd * type "vipw" * enter "Gyyp:%s/^[^:]*//" * get some sort of text pop-up menu that alerts me that "this is 'ee', we don't do things that way here" Then I: * make a sub-vocal response * Try to figure out how to get out of this thing without damaging my /etc/master.passwd * vi ~/.cshrc & "/eecwvi:wq" * source !$ * Go do the "vipw" again, but after the , enter "i+:wq" The above is the *only* time I use ee. And it only happens when I'm installing FreeBSD on a box. Thus, given the other things I have to do, I do not have the time to deal with learning to use something of such limited usefulness (for me). Maybe "ee" is more useful for those more familiar with editors like that used in the Pascal p-System, or some other environments. It's *not* familiar to me (last time I used the p-System stuff was about '89 or so, and since I only used it on rare occasions, the process was similarly annoying). It doesn't seem to resemble vi; it certainly doesn't resemble ISPF/PDF. I don't think it resembles EDIT (under VM/CMS -- it's been a few years since I dealt with that, too). (I also find PICO obnoxious, and do my best to stay away from EMACS.) The point I'm trying to make is that folks who are "newbies" to FreeBSD do not necessarily have a common background. Providing tools to help folks is great; assuming that those tools will be equally useful for all folks is not so great. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 14:59:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29319 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:59:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp2.globalserve.net (smtp2.globalserve.net [209.90.128.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29304 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:59:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scqdaf@globalserve.net) Received: from [10.1.0.9] (dialin1358.toronto.globalserve.net [209.90.135.87]) by smtp2.globalserve.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08994 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:55:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: scqdaf#mail.globalserve.net@10.1.0.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:09:13 -0400 To: FreeBSD-Newbies From: Dennis Favro Subject: What's your Window Manager preference? Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else uses. I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. --Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 17:08:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25243 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:08:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dsinw.com (dsinw.com [207.149.40.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25228 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:08:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@dsinw.com) Received: (from hamellr@localhost) by dsinw.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id RAA15781; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:05:11 -0700 (PDT) From: rick hamell To: Dennis Favro cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the > time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else > uses. > > I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty > good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc > file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. I prefer Afterstep personally. The less my machine can look like 95, the better. :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 17:21:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27516 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:21:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27501 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:21:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id RAA17738; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:21:13 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:21:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: Dennis Favro cc: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the > time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else > uses. to new to unix to really mess with it.. :) I've got the 'ol standard from BSD, and I just got a copy of Soloris x86 too.. which uses CDE. The interface is *really* nice, so when I learn how, I'll switch over to KDE (like a clone).. Unfortunatly, Soloris is similar to NT, but a UNIX, so its a real pain to do much, has no terminal commands (basicly), and doesn't come with any great packages... sound familiar? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 17:34:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00328 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:34:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00256 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@white.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au) Message-Id: <199810090033.RAA00256@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:33:36 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" In-Reply-To: from "Dennis Favro" at Oct 8, 98 03:09:13 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the > time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else > uses. I use fvwm (not fvwm2 or fvwm95). I like my interfaces simple, so I don't use GoodStuff or IconBox. I've been refining my interface for the last two-and-a-half years at uni, so my interfaces at uni and home are exactly the same! (To keep me from confusing myself :) ) > > I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty > good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc > file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. I had a look at mlvwm, and it doesn't seem to be complete. There should be a default rc file in the mlvwm directory. (/usr/X11R6/lib/mlvwm ?) Just copy it to your home directory and make any modifications you want. (rc files are usually heavily commented). > > --Dennis > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 18:12:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08231 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www0j.netaddress.usa.net (www0j.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA08078 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:11:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gekk0@usa.net) Received: (qmail 24245 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Oct 1998 01:10:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19981009011053.24244.qmail@www0j.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 199.190.198.20 by mail.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Fri Oct 9 01:10:50 GMT 1998 Date: 8 Oct 98 18:10:50 PDT From: gekk0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [What's your Window Manager preference?] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I use and like WindowMaker. I tried KDE, I liked it...but it ate up alot of my resources. @@ owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG wrote: What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else uses. I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. --Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 18:39:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15729 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ridge.spiritone.com (ridge.spiritone.com [205.139.108.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15651 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:39:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dionn@spiritone.com) From: dionn@spiritone.com Received: from spiritone.com (us4a-13.spiritone.com [206.98.120.13]) by ridge.spiritone.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23857; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <361D6198.2135D3E3@spiritone.com> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:06:32 -0700 Organization: The Foundation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dennis Favro CC: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 19:09:13 on 8-Oct-98, Dennis Favro wrote: > > What's everyone's window manager preference? What window manager? ;-) Seriously, none of the BSD boxen around here run X. Alright, it's because none of them are workstations. But if one of them was, I'd probably run fvwm. Uncreative, yes, but then I grew up on csh and DOS 3.3. (I'll spare you bulk of my crochetty old fart stories) -- Knowledge is the perception of truth distorted by reality To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 22:07:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA22113 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:07:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au [130.194.166.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22099 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:07:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05779; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:06:47 +1000 Message-Id: <199810090506.PAA05779@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:06:44 +1000 (EST) From: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au Reply-To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? To: scqdaf@globalserve.net cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; BOUNDARY="-1031644250-1482041942-907909611=:25648" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ---1031644250-1482041942-907909611=:25648 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII On 8 Oct, Dennis Favro wrote: > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the > time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else > uses. > > I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty > good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc > file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. > My favourites: * icewm - small memory footprint, easy to configure, can look like Win95 for recent converts from Windows We run this on general purpose machines for people new to Unix * Window Maker - still in beta, but it's stable, elegant and powerful The best window manager for all us who were too young or too poor to buy a NeXt machine once upon a time... Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross -- Water Studies Centre, Monash University Random thought #232 (Collect all 234) Make something than even an idiot can use and only an idiot will use it. ---1031644250-1482041942-907909611=:25648 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6.3i iQB1AwUBNh2Z5GAiycRwLbVJAQHf4AMAtl5PM3RoPd8rzfsE+7IyMl7/c6AyWtdc qq2TD6eEYCZE9GeHA0pJXcq1XSFuY+R8jRaOmaYlCKmtAjbRJLeW/B1SEXbCd9Ez 2aZGj4F404naWfQs2YgQUEHGa6EG1+of =oyPW -----END PGP MESSAGE----- ---1031644250-1482041942-907909611=:25648-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Oct 8 22:35:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA26712 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:35:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26691 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:34:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gummibear@we.mediaone.net) From: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Received: from ale.we.mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-145.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.145]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA07097 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19981008224109.006a94cc@we.mediaone.net> X-Sender: gummibear@we.mediaone.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 22:41:09 -0700 To: FreeBSD-Newbies Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:09 PM 10/8/98 -0400, Dennis Favro wrote: > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the >time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else >uses. > > I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty >good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc >file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. > >--Dennis Hey, this was a pretty neat question! :) Well, to answer your question I currently use KDE. Although, I have used fvwm, fvwm2, AfterStep 1.0, and WindowMaker (for about a week). The main reason why I like KDE is because it works very well, and I also don't have to fuss with some *rc file. I've spent way too much time with .fvwmrc and .steprc in my limited unix experience. I would have probably learned alot more of the rest of the system if I didn't spend so much time perfecting the look and feel of my desktop. I think they're planning on making WindowMaker pretty much a full point and click enviroment, so maybe then I'll give it a try. (Don't quote me on that because I haven't been checking up the development of WindowMaker lately) :) Well, goodnight guys. Joey Garcia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 05:36:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22245 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tekincisnts-4.teklogix.com ([207.219.2.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22238 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mpoulin@honk.org) Received: from SW47 ([10.64.5.146]) by tekincisnts-4.teklogix.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 4D64WW4A; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:36:37 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981009083636.009063a0@spectre.honk.org> X-Sender: mpoulin@spectre.honk.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:36:36 -0400 To: FreeBSD-Newbies From: Marty Poulin Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I like FVWM2, but I haven't tried anything other than twm, so I can't compare it to anything. I've seen KDE running on a Linux box here at work and it looks pretty good, so I am considering trying it sometime in the near future. M. At 03:09 PM 10/8/98 -0400, Dennis Favro wrote: > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the >time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else >uses. > > I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty >good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc >file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. > >--Dennis > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 07:24:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09057 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA09050 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:24:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id HAA21437 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199810091423.HAA21437@pau-amma.whistle.com> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:09:13 -0400 >From: Dennis Favro > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the >time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else >uses. Well, on the BSD-ish systems that I use (FreeBSD & SunOS 4.1.1_U1), I prefer tvtwm. (twm on "virtual desktop" steroids, so to speak.) On the Solaris 2.x systems, I prefer olvwm (olvwm:olwm == tvtwm:twm). One "feature of dubious merit" is that when xlock kicks in (I fire up xautolock when I start up the X environment), it only paints an image over the upper left-hand desktop when I'm running tvtwm on a FreeBSD system. (This may well be more of an XFree86 issue, but FreeBSD is the only thing I run on the Intel-based systems to which I have access.) the other desktops are "transparently locked" -- you can see the windows, but the cursor has (subtly) changed to a black arrow (as a prompt for the password). Now, usually I use the phrase "feature of dubious merit" rather sarcastically, but in this case, I mean it quite literally: it actually *can* be useful to have a display that is effectively "screenlocked," but which may be monitored by folks who you don't really want issuing commands. (This may be my years of dealing with mainframe operations types showing up....) However, I found it mildly surprising (technical term: "POLA violation" -- "POLA" being "Principle Of Least Astonishment") the first time I noticed it (and it took me a few seconds to figure out exactly what was going on). > I've tried out fvwm2, amivwm, twm and the K Desktop. They're all pretty >good. I'd like to give mlvwm a shot, (I'm a Mac user) but it needs a rc >file that I have /no/ idea how to go about creating. About the only other WM I've used is whatever comes with CDE (on Solaris 2.x), and I just found that too annoying. (Besides, at least one program I tried to use fails to work under CDE.) I never cared much for trying out different WMs; I had used twm for a while before trying tvtwm; once I used it, WMs without "virtual desktops" Need Not Apply, as far as I'm concerned. (Also, the scanning software I use at home is based on "xv". The scanner handles resolution to 400 dpi, but it seems that xvscan wants very much to display a pixel for each pixel scanned. Since the monitor & framebuffer I use don't support 400 dpi resolution (more's the pity!), it's necessary to display a high-resolution scanned image at much larger than actual size unless I'm willing to have loss of data. Then, if I want to print the result, the data sent to the printer have a resolution dependent upon the *display* resolution, the size of the image, and the scaling factor: so if I want to use the scanner & printer as a jury-rigged copier, I need to be able to display an image significantly larger than the usual desktop size of 1152x900. The use of the "virtual desktop" facility provides that, at the expense of virtual memory, of course....) And I have absolutely *zero* incentive to use something that tries to mimic anything from Microsoft, since that would represent significant additional (and unpleasant) learning curve for me, with no expectation of benefit. Others' experiences and perspectives, of course, are likely to be different, which is a Good Thing -- that's one of the reasons we have choices in the UNIX environment. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 09:21:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28815 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28803 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA22086 for freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:20:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:20:10 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199810091620.JAA22086@pau-amma.whistle.com> Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:21:12 -0700 (PDT) >From: Ben Manes >.. Unfortunatly, Soloris is similar to NT, but a UNIX, so >its a real pain to do much, has no terminal commands (basicly), and >doesn't come with any great packages... sound familiar? ??!? I realize this is a FreeBSD list, but suggesting that Solaris has no "terminal commands" is just a bit much.... As for any similarity to "NT" -- well, I've never knowingly used NT. I'll grant that Solaris 2.x is rather incomplete as shipped by Sun, since it doesn't come with a compiler. Fortunately, FTPing over to sunsite.unc.edu can fix that (as well as add a bunch of other things to get the system functional; just be sure you allocate plenty of space for /usr/local). I even run NetHack on a Solaris 2.6 (SPARC) system (using the X Window interface for NetHack, with the xpm tiles; it's fairly nice -- still kinda annoying when there are serveral critters of the same kind around you, and some are hostile, while others aren't). david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 10:38:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10421 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spock.tinet.ie (spock.tinet.ie [159.134.237.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10351 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from emil@tinet.ie) Received: from tinet.ie (p134.cork1.tinet.ie [159.134.228.134]) by spock.tinet.ie (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA04361 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:37:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <361E4976.95BF69D3@tinet.ie> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 18:35:50 +0100 From: Emil Bjorsell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org auth d4180f36 subscribe freebsd-newbies emil@tinet.ie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 10:44:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11857 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11757 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05646; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:43:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id MAA00089; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:43:22 -0500 Message-ID: <19981009124322.22208@right.PCS> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:43:22 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: David Wolfskill Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? References: <199810091423.HAA21437@pau-amma.whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: <199810091423.HAA21437@pau-amma.whistle.com>; from David Wolfskill on Oct 10, 1998 at 07:23:48AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Oct 10, 1998 at 07:23:48AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: > >Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:09:13 -0400 > >From: Dennis Favro > > > What's everyone's window manager preference? I've finally gotten the > >time to get FreeBSD up and running, and I'd like to hear what everyone else > >uses. > > Well, on the BSD-ish systems that I use (FreeBSD & SunOS 4.1.1_U1), I > prefer tvtwm. (twm on "virtual desktop" steroids, so to speak.) I'll second that one. tvtwm-pl11.rjc7+, actually. It's fast, lean, and does all that I need it to. I dislike many pretty colors on my desktop, they give me eyestrain from looking at them all day. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 16:36:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20405 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:36:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20385 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:36:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id QAA19196 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:36:34 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:36:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? In-Reply-To: <199810091620.JAA22086@pau-amma.whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I'll grant that Solaris 2.x is rather incomplete as shipped by Sun, > since it doesn't come with a compiler. Fortunately, FTPing over to > sunsite.unc.edu can fix that (as well as add a bunch of other things to > get the system functional; just be sure you allocate plenty of space for > /usr/local). yeah, I'll take your word for it.. To me, knowing *very* little about UNIX, its like NT. Nice interface, seems powerful, but no package. Terminal commands are lacking, from the few I know, because I just couldn't get em to work! :) I'll have to grab a fortran compiler there.. BTW, is there any way to shutdown without the terminal command shutdown -h xx:xx? It just slow down the system when I tried, but not shutdown.. Oh, and how to you edit its bootloader??? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 17:26:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29488 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:26:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.videotron.ab.ca (cloak.videotron.ab.ca [206.75.216.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29319 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:25:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rward@netcom.ca) Received: from blade ([24.108.23.151]) by mail.videotron.ab.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA4F63 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:24:57 -0600 Reply-To: From: "Ryan Ward" To: "FreeBSD Newbies" Subject: Parse Errors doing a make world Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:27:06 -0600 Message-ID: <000201bdf3e4$b5c4ab60$97176c18@blade.v-wave.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Could someone point me to what might be happening with my make world. I tried with yesterday and today with the current and got the same parse error. cc -O -pipe -DFREEBSD_AOUT -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../../../../cont rib/ gcc -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../../../../contrib/gcc/config -DFREEBS D_NA TIVE -DDEFAULT_TARGET_VERSION=\"2.7.2.1\" -DDEFAULT_TARGET_MACHINE=\"i386-un know n-freebsd\" -I/usr/obj/elf/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../cc_tools -I/usr/ obj/ elf/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../../../../contri b/gcc/integrate.c -o integrate.o --- jump.o --- cc -O -pipe -DFREEBSD_AOUT -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../../../../cont rib/ gcc -I/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../../../../contrib/gcc/config -DFREEBS D_NA TIVE -DDEFAULT_TARGET_VERSION=\"2.7.2.1\" -DDEFAULT_TARGET_MACHINE=\"i386-un know n-freebsd\" -I/usr/obj/elf/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../cc_tools -I/usr/ obj/ elf/usr/src/tmp/usr/include -c /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/cc/cc_int/../../../../contri b/gcc/jump.c -o jump.o --- insn-output.o --- ../cc_tools/insn-output.c:6269: parse error before `}' *** Error code 1 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error *** Error code 2 1 error To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 19:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA19393 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:30:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19381 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA24368 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:30:11 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:30:11 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199810100230.MAA24368@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 30 August 1998) (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Oct 9 20:28:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26338 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:28:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26318 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:28:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlduke@newman.concentric.net) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/08/04 5.11)) id XAA23978; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:28:27 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from ts002d17.mer-id.concentric.net (ts002d17.mer-id.concentric.net [206.173.184.77]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id XAA05520; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 23:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:28:17 -0600 (MDT) From: ML Duke X-Sender: mlduke@concentric.net To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Warning (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Its pretty well known that installing wincrap95 after a fbsd install will destroy our boot managers--it might be less well known that installing msie (can't bring myself to use capital letters) will do the same thing. Its actually a w95 (in this case) upgrade and it became "necessary" in order to run some real time commodities reporting software--even though I don't even _use_ the 70 meg piece of bloat. Pardon the rant, but it wiped out the boot manager without (1) asking or (2) reporting. To reinstall get "bootinst.exe" and "boot.bin" from /tools and run: "bootinst.exe boot.bin" in DOS OR: Run the appropriate install boot floppy, go to custom installation (for experts--making us newbies feel good) and select partition, then select the dos disk, change nothing but key "w" for "write" select "boot manager" and you're back in business--which is the process I just used. Its in the FAQ quite clearly. ML Duke To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Oct 10 01:43:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08939 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08924 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA09950; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:28:46 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981010002845.06760@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:28:45 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au, scqdaf@globalserve.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: What's your Window Manager preference? References: <199810090506.PAA05779@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <199810090506.PAA05779@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au>; from Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au on Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:06:44PM +1000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This may be about to go right off-topic for -newbies. Obviously window managers are related to a decent FreeBSD installation, but this may be about to get a bit too specific. Feel free to *not* cross-post your reply to the list if you think it's inappropriate. I will summarise responses. Having got that out of the way; On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:06:44PM +1000, Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au wrote: > * Window Maker - still in beta, but it's stable, elegant and powerful > The best window manager for all us who were too young or too poor to > buy a NeXt machine once upon a time... I keep trying Window Maker every now and then, lots of people tell me it's good. But there are a some bits about it (not ever having used a NeXT machine) that I just don't understand. * Is there really *no* desktop pager? There seems to be this thing the 'clip', which lets you scroll through your virtual desktops. But you can't get a 'map' of what's on your virtual desktops, and you can't drag things from desktop to desktop this way. I'm thinking of something like FvwmPager. * What's the point of the 'dock', or 'wharf'? It seems to hold a mixture of icons that you can click on to start programs, icons that indicate already running programs, and programs that are running 'in' icons (swallowed). Keeping these three states of an application together in one place strikes me as counter intuitive. * Can I ditch the icons for running applications, and go to a list, like TWM/CTWMs application list or (heaven forfend) the Win95 task bar? N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Oct 10 06:03:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA05053 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 06:03:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05048 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 06:03:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de) Received: from duffner.konstanz.netsurf.de (surf83.konstanz.netsurf.de [194.163.242.83]) by gw1.konstanz.netsurf.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03078; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:03:03 +0100 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:03:47 +0200 (MESZ) From: Rainer M Duffner Subject: Re: Parse Errors doing a make world To: Ryan Ward cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <000201bdf3e4$b5c4ab60$97176c18@blade.v-wave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: enigma, http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~enigma X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat 10 Oct, Ryan Ward wrote: > Could someone point me to what might be happening with my make world. I > tried with yesterday and today with the current and got the same parse > error. > --- insn-output.o --- > ../cc_tools/insn-output.c:6269: parse error before `}' I'm no expert in this, but a) this is not really the correct list for this kind of question b) it should be directed to one of the current-mailing-lists c) if you read -newbies, you shouldn't run 'current' anyway - stable is good enough (I track stable, from time to time) d) try mailing the man/woman responsible for that piece of code e) isn't there even some kind of tracking-system for these things ? cheers, Rainer -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |Rainer Duffner, E-Mail: duffner@fh-konstanz.de | | & Rainer.Duffner@konstanz.netsurf.de | |Fachhochschule Konstanz, Germany | |"What's a Network ?" - Bill Gates, early 1980s | | WWW:http://www-stud.fh-konstanz.de/~duffner | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Oct 10 13:16:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26411 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sar.anit.es (sar.anit.es [195.76.122.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26318 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:16:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swalk@anit.es) Received: from cyrix (p2h249.anit.es [195.76.122.249]) by sar.anit.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA22936 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:15:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981010215645.0080c210@sar.anit.es> X-Sender: swalk@sar.anit.es X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:56:45 +0200 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG From: Steven Walker Subject: XFree86 & things Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I have read the XFree86 chapter in "The Complete FreeBSD" on installing this and am worried that I might damage my hardware having an old second hand monitor with no documentation. The snag is that I do not actually know what the prog does. Is it a must have, a luxury or a load of junk? I would hate to spend ages getting it set up and zap it 10 minutes later. Incidentally I did see the following in the recent FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit "FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies." I think my posting just about complies with that but I do find it rather restricting. The questions group is very busy and most of what goes on there is completely unintelligible at the moment. What would really suit me is a less busy group dealing with more elementary questions without feeling intimidated. It would also be a lot less time consuming not having to wade through 100 messages a day looking for the odd nugget. I suspect some of the corporate network managers have the same feeling about finding interesting topics. A good example today is ML Duke's explanation of how to reinstall Boot Manager after M$ zapped it. I was having exactly this problem, and was going to start searching around. I would have got to the FAQ after searching the book. I have just been saved a lot of time and am grateful. Maybe it is because I have no Unix background that I am finding it hard going. Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Oct 10 15:07:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07898 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:07:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07893 for ; Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:07:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA27197; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:07:10 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981011080657.49962@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:06:57 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Steven Walker Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: XFree86 & things References: <3.0.5.32.19981010215645.0080c210@sar.anit.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981010215645.0080c210@sar.anit.es>; from Steven Walker on Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 09:56:45PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Oct 10, 1998 at 09:56:45PM +0200, Steven Walker wrote: > Hi, > > I have read the XFree86 chapter in "The Complete FreeBSD" on installing > this and am worried that I might damage my hardware having an old second > hand monitor with no documentation. > > The snag is that I do not actually know what the prog does. Is it a must > have, a luxury or a load of junk? I would hate to spend ages getting it > set up and zap it 10 minutes later. You mean XFree86? It gives you a graphical interface, like windoze, rather than a commandline interface, like DOS. (Gee, I'd get shot down in flames if I said that on another list!) > I think my posting just about complies with that but I do find it rather > restricting. The questions group is very busy and most of what goes on > there is completely unintelligible at the moment. Understood. That's the cost of free professional level support. The very best technical support for newbies is at freebsd-questions. Questions placed there help other newbies by becoming part of a searchable archive. They also help the developers to see and understand the problems faced by newbies. They won't look anywhere else. If you want to share questions and tips a smaller less experienced group with no rules, send an empty message to freebsd-tips-subscribe@egroups.com. If for some peculiar reason you want a discussion-only group, somewhere to let of steam amongst peers only, a place to be guided to the right list or documentation that works for newbies, or to meet other newbies who want to give back to the FreeBSD Project, you're here. How many more mailing lists do you want? :-) > Maybe it is because I have no Unix background that I am finding it > hard going. Yep, that's a problem for all of us. We're trying to learn about a particular unix operating system without knowing unix first. You might find some helpful stuff through http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message