From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 3:17:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B124E11AA4 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:17:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id DAA03359 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 03:17:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003101be5d8b$c6e0a140$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: linux in New York Times Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:17:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sorry, no FreeBSD mention. February 21, 1999 The Rebel Code By AMY HARMON One recent rainy afternoon at the home of Marcus Meissner in Erlangen, Germany, Meissner's computer froze. It was the sort of routine headache that most of us who rely on the alien machines endure on an almost daily basis. But Meissner, 25, didn't simpy reboot. Although by day a caretaker of elderly patients at a state-run nursing home, by night he is a foot soldier in the liberation army of Linux, an increasingly popular operating system that is available free on the Internet. Meissner is part of a global confederation of volunteers who are intent on ushering in a kind of parallel silicon universe in which computers don't crash, programmers readily share intellectual property and, incidentally, Microsoft Corp. has no reason to exist, because Linux already belongs to everyone. Meissner sent out an e-mail. Moments later in Budapest, a 26-year-old called Mingo -- it is the habit of the wizards who tend to Linux to refer to one another by only their e-mail avatars -- posted a fix. Gabriel, a radio astronomer in southern Spain, countered the next day with a different version. Then Petkan, a system administrator at a Bulgarian newspaper, weighed in with a new approach. The point was not simply to mend the program, but also to find the most elegant way of doing so. Of course everyone knew that Torvalds, the California-based spider at the center of this self-spinning web, would have the final say. Torvalds is Linus Torvalds, the Finnish programmer who eight years ago, as a 21-year-old student at the University of Helsinki, created Linux's skeletal code and released it free on the Internet. Since then, he has become something of a cult figure, regularly outranking celebrity executives like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs in Internet personality polls; troll the Web and you can catch an audio clip of his uttering the correct pronunciation of Linux (LINN-ucks) and see what he wore to last year's Finnish President's Indepedence Day ball. Named for both the physicist Linus Pauling and the Peanuts character, Torvalds grew up in Helsinki in a family of journalists. His motivation for starting Linux had as much to do with pragmatism as with intellectual exploration. As an undergraduate, he couldn't afford the several thousand dollars it would have cost to buy a commercial version of Unix -- the operating system popular in the academic and corporate worlds -- so he decided to write his own. Now, when programmers, hobbyists and other Linux devotees ask him, as they do several dozen times a week, what part of the program they should work on, he tells them to come back when they know. Torvalds's moral and technical authority over Linux's evolution derives from the countless hours he has spent juggling ideas and requests submitted by the program's ever-growing network of acolytes. But it is part of the power of Linux that when its prime mover opted for a clumsy solution to Meissner's problem -- as even a cult hero occasionally does -- his lieutenants did not shrink from correcting him. To liberate the world from bad bugs, crashes and bloated software, the rebel programmers of Linux strictly adhere to a meritocratic mantra: "The best code always wins." It is hard to believe that the future of software lies in a haphazard process of far-flung programmers e-mailing each other in the middle of the night, but it just might. Beloved by techies for its remarkable ability to run for months without crashing and for its compatibility with other programs, Linux has mutated in recent months from geek fetish to a dark-horse challenger to Microsoft Windows, the ubiquitous operating system that has defined computing for a decade. A formidable array of Microsoft's competitors, including I.B.M., Intel and Oracle are lining up to back the orphan program. New companies like Red Hat Software in Durham, N.C., are aiming to make money by providing technical support for the software they can never own. In a bow to Linux's growing stature, Netscape and Intel invested last fall in Red Hat. Even Microsoft has made a show of trembling before Linux's rebel forces. In an internal memo that somehow found its way onto the Internet, a Microsoft engineer outlined the circumstances in which "Linux can win" and proposed strategies for defeating the advantages of its new competitor. Microsoft has also cited its fear of Linux in its antitrust battle with the Justice Department. Still, some perspective is in order. Linux, which runs on only about 7 million computers worldwide, has a long, long way to go before it makes a dent in Microsoft's 250-million-plus empire. And despite its growing popularity, Linux is still too complicated for the average nonideologically motivated computer user. But its significance is not solely as a product, but also as an idea -- the embodiment of what amounts to a widely held political belief among notoriously apolitical programmers that software should be better. "People have grown used to thinking of computers as unreliable, and it doesn't have to be that way," Torvalds told me one night as we sat in his office at his Santa Clara, Calif., home. "I don't mind Microsoft making money. I mind them having a bad operating system." Torvalds lives in a modest tract house, where he moved with his wife, Tove, the six-time karate champion of Finland, two years ago to take a job at a secretive start-up partly owned by Paul Allen, one of the founders of Microsoft. The house is filled with stuffed penguins, his favorite animal -- and not incidentally, the Linux mascot -- for reasons he can't quite explain, except that they seem "friendly." When he travels he makes every effort to visit the local zoo. His favorite is in Singapore, because it has the most exotic animals and the fewest cages per capita. Each night, after tucking in his fair-haired daughters, Patricia, 2, and Daniela, 10 months, Torvalds retreats to the orange light of his computer to log several hours working on Linux. Linux's most lasting legacy may be its role in legitimizing a radical model of software development that has come to be known as "open source," in which the "source code" -- the usually secreted DNA of a computer program -- is freely released on the Internet for anyone to see, modify or redistribute. The idea is akin to the notion of Coca-Cola publishing its formula for Coke. Not surprisingly, it doesn't sit well with corporate executives, who often spend tens of millions of dollars on programmers' salaries alone. "Why should software be free?" asks Edward J. Zander, chief operating officer of Sun Microsystems. "Why should I give away what I pay millions of dollars to develop? Why doesn't General Motors give its cars away for free? Why don't you give me your newspaper for free?" But by harnessing the collective wisdom of developers worldwide, Linux partisans argue, a rigorous, informal peer review naturally emerges in which the best innovations are ratified and adopted, resulting in a better product. "I can't imagine having a problem and having to spend four hours figuring it out instead of turning to the most knowledgeable person on the Net who would know instantly how to solve it," says Marc Ewing, 29, who started Red Hat in 1993. "It would be a terrible waste of time." And the rapid growth of the Internet, which after all was created through the open-source process, has made the approach ever more feasible by broadening the universe of potential contributors and allowing for nearly instant distribution of fine-tuned fixes. "When I released Linux," Torvalds told me as we sat scanning hundreds of e-mail messages he received that day, "I thought maybe one other person would be interested in it." Among the faithful, the story of Torvalds conjuring an operating system out of a blank screen has already taken on the ring of legend. But the legend wants to correct the notion that he solely wrote the software. "The kernel" -- Linux's most vital code -- "is 1 percent of the entire program," he says. "Of that 1 percent, I've written between 5 and 10 percent. I think the most important part is that I got it started. Then people had something to concentrate on." Indeed, Torvalds places the number of volunteers who regularly contribute to the "kernel" at about 1,000, and thousands more have sent in pieces of code over the years. "I didn't ask for this army of people to come to me," he says. "They come because this is what they want to do." Of the six young men in four countries who played in the e-mail round robin of fix-the-bug, for instance, only Mingo is paid to work on Linux, and even his contribution was not directly a part of his job. But Torvalds readily concedes that Linux also owes much to the groundbreaking work of Richard Stallman, a legendary hacker at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who in 1984 founded the Free Software Foundation, a nonprofit organization that promotes the use of free software. Living out of his office at M.I.T., Stallman devoted himself to developing a free operating system. His thousands of lines of code make up many of the software tools and utilities that are a part of Linux. Still, there's no denying Torvalds's centrality to the Linux revolution. According to Eric Raymond, an evangelist of the open-source movement, programs like Linux are usually organized around one central wizard to whom the others pay fealty. The perverse cross between anarchy and a cult of personality, Raymond explains, comes from a natural tendency toward efficiency. The leader maintains his place only with the consent of his peers. In a self-published essay, "The Cathedral and the Bazaar," which has become a manifesto for Linux devotees, Raymond sees the cathedral as the traditional mode of software development, and the bazaar as the preferable, open mode. Elite programmers prefer the bazaar, he says, because it allows them to operate in a "gift culture" in which prestige is the currency and the rich developer is the one with the best reputation. "Open-source software," or O.S.S., is really just a moniker invented by a few marketing-savvy programmers, who decided last year that they needed a term with public relations gloss for their preferred mode of developing software. But the concept dates back to the days before the rise of the personal computer, when hackers and hobbyists pushed the technology envelope; at the time, they were more engaged in the pursuit of knowledge than in corporate profits. Predictably, computer-industry lore credits Microsoft's chairman, Bill Gates, with heralding the end of that era with his "Open Letter to Hobbyists," first published in 1976. "Most of you steal your software," Gates wrote, piqued at how the early computer tinkerers passed around copies of any software they came across, including Microsoft's first program, the Basic computer language for the Altair 8800. "One thing you do . . . is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing?" With the advent of the personal computer, a new mass market for software arose, and with it, an industry renowned for its entrepreneurs and their ability to create wealth. Previously, computer innovations had largely arisen on university campuses, where the free exchange of ideas often reigned. But big business, dependent on innovations for its profits, began closely guarding its intellectual property, as software companies began making money by selling upgrades to programs that consumers had already purchased. There was nothing in it for a company offering fixes for free. With the Free Software Foundation, Richard Stallman tried to recapture an earlier atmosphere by developing a free operating system he called GNU. He released it under a new software license known as "copyleft," which allowed it to be endlessly copied or modified. One of Torvalds's first decisions working on Linux was to release the source code under Stallman's general public license. "I wanted people to be able to trust me without trusting me personally," Torvalds says. "So even if I turn to the dark side, nobody can take it over." Stallman thinks that some of Linux's proponents have already sold out and insists that the system's proper name is GNU-Linux. To him, the point of free software isn't that it fosters superior technology, but that it's free and urges the use of inferior free software over anything proprietary. "The free-software movement is concerned primarily with strengthening civil society," he says. "Think free as in free speech, not free beer." It seems that many have. It is hard to discount Linux contributors' claims that they do what they do for the love of it, given how much free time they devote to perfecting the program. As Petko Manolov, 24, the system administrator in Bulgaria who took part in the e-mail round robin, says: "Linux is a very good operating system written by very good programmers. And everybody can see the result. There are many reasons for this, but I think the most important is that nobody is forced to code something he or she does not believe is right. I had a bad experience in my previous job with my boss, who made me program things I'm ashamed of." Theodore Y. Ts'o, a researcher at M.I.T., speaks of Linux in spiritual terms. "There's a quote from the New Testament," he says. "'By your works you will know them.' That's what it's like. You take care of your code, and when people report bugs you fix it. You are thereby known as a provider of good software." Donald Becker, who builds Linux machines for NASA, says, "We think we're changing the world." Whether or not open-source development can work for all types of software is unclear. But already other loose-knit bands of programmers are rising up in the Linux mold, driven by personal interest or professional need for software to be better or cheaper or just different from what commercial companies are churning out. Venerable programs like Sendmail, which since the beginning of the Internet has relayed virtually all e-mail to its intended destination, was developed under an open-source model. More than half of the Web servers on the Internet now run on Apache, an open-source program started in 1995 by a group of Web masters unhappy with the performance of the options on the market. Some companies, like Red Hat, are actually paying programmers to do what they once did free. Donald Becker, for instance, is paid by NASA, which used Linux to build a cluster of personal computers that rank among the top 500 fastest in the world, for about one-tenth the price of what an exotic supercomputer would cost. More traditional software companies are also jumping on the bandwagon. In December, Sun agreed to make its popular Java source code available to developers who pay a license fee. The company is retaining PricewaterhouseCoopers to audit, as Torvalds has for Linux, the process of determining which new functions can be added to the language. Last winter, in a move much celebrated by open-source proponents, Netscape released the source code to its Navigator Web browser. Although the software was already free to customers, the company is gambling that opening its code to developers will give it an edge over Microsoft's competing browser, Explorer, which comes free with Windows. And America Online, which plans to acquire Netscape, has pledged to support its open-source initiatives. Even Microsoft, in its memo assessing open-source software, concedes that "Linux and other O.S.S. advocates are making a progressively more credible argument that O.S.S. software is at least as robust -- if not more -- than commercial alternatives. . . . The ability of the O.S.S. process to collect and harness the collective I.Q. of thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing." But the corporations that are throwing their weight behind Linux and other open-source projects are, for the most part, counting on the desire of geeks to continue selflessly donating their time and expertise to the betterment of the world's software. Late last year in Atlanta at a Linux convention, which was impressively organized by an ad-hoc group of Linux fans, Eric Raymond, the open-source guru, elaborated on his notion of prestige as a motivating force. "None of my peers are impressed by what kind of car I have," he said with twinkling eyes. "They're impressed when I have a T-1 line in my house. This all goes back to evolutionary biology where we're all competing for prestige because we think it will get us babes." There was a pause, as the almost entirely male audience -- some of whom looked as if they hadn't started shaving -- considered the obvious implications of this observation. Finally, someone called out: "Is it working for anyone?" There came the resounding unanimous reply: "Nooo!" But maybe the word just has yet to get out. Torvalds, for his part, tends to absent himself from displays of Linux activism, but he might have been proud of the one organized by the Silicon Valley Linux User group in Palo Alto, Calif., in November. Microsoft was holding a party to celebrate the opening of its new software-development center. In a true geek protest, about 50 Linux stalwarts gathered to hand out Linux CD's to Microsoft's guests as they entered. Wearing penguin T-shirts bearing the slogan "Where Do You Want to Go Tomorrow?" and carrying "Star Wars"-inspired signs that read, "Use the Source, Luke," the group gathered at a coffee shop and was about to head over to the party when two guys arrived from Microsoft. Apparently they had been monitoring the group's Web site. "What you guys are doing is touching a lot of people's hearts," one of them told the group. "We'd love to sit down and talk." The offers of pizza and beer were politely declined, at least until after the event. But it was something of a crowning moment. "Did you get that down?" one of the protesters wanted to know. "Microsoft wants to buy us a beer." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 6:31:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EDC011173 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:31:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-036.thuntek.net [207.66.52.36]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id HAA26974; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:31:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D026F1.D6E0AD4C@thuntek.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:32:01 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Peters Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' References: <36CF9265.98E0F148@softweyr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wes Peters wrote: > P.S. Otherwise I'll start folding some of those lab rat stories into > my Daemon News column... > Why don't you do that anyway, Wes, sounds like fun! We need some real devils running around here. :-D -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 6:36:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDCA11181F for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:36:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA00515; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:35:33 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36D017C3.F785B3D8@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:27:15 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jack Velte Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux in New York Times References: <003101be5d8b$c6e0a140$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jack Velte wrote: > > shrink from correcting him. To liberate the world from bad bugs, crashes and > bloated software, the rebel programmers of Linux strictly adhere to a > meritocratic mantra: "The best code always wins." Why don't they use FreeBSD then? ;-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "To make it absolutely clear: you stand on the wrong end of my blasters, so you better get lost before I start target practice!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 16:43:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from duey.wolves.k12.mo.us (duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBD810FB0 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:43:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from duey.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@duey.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.9]) by duey.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29858; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:43:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:43:32 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Dillon To: Jack Velte Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux in New York Times In-Reply-To: <003101be5d8b$c6e0a140$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Jack Velte wrote: > sorry, no FreeBSD mention. > February 21, 1999 > > The Rebel Code > By AMY HARMON [...snip...] > To liberate the world from bad bugs, crashes and > bloated software, the rebel programmers of Linux strictly adhere to a > meritocratic mantra: "The best code always wins." [...snip...] Hahahaha.... The moment I saw that, I thought, "Oh, I guess that means FreeBSD will win." -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net /* FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and compatibles (SPARC and Alpha under development) ( http://www.freebsd.org ) */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 19:26:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 38B46120CD for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:26:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 3671 invoked from network); 22 Feb 1999 03:26:29 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 1999 03:26:29 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA23981; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:26:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902220326.WAA23981@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: linux in New York Times In-Reply-To: from Chris Dillon at "Feb 21, 99 06:43:32 pm" To: cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us (Chris Dillon) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:26:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Dillon said: > On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Jack Velte wrote: > > > sorry, no FreeBSD mention. > > February 21, 1999 > > > > The Rebel Code > > By AMY HARMON > > [...snip...] > > > To liberate the world from bad bugs, crashes and > > bloated software, the rebel programmers of Linux strictly adhere to a > > meritocratic mantra: "The best code always wins." > > [...snip...] > > Hahahaha.... The moment I saw that, I thought, "Oh, I guess that means > FreeBSD will win." > The fact is: The best marketeer wins. Code quality is important, but not nearly as important as the smoke and mirrors. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 21:10:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67E111AF2 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:10:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01963; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:10:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd001486; Sun Feb 21 22:10:20 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29696; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:08:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902220508.WAA29696@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' To: mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us (Mason Loring Bliss) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:08:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990220225046.M11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> from "Mason Loring Bliss" at Feb 20, 99 10:50:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > (I don't want to start a flame war, and I *have* stated this belief before, > but it seems that the only possible outcome or goal of proprietary software > is the ability to say "I have this, and I won't let you have it," regardless > of the relative merit of the reasoning with regard to anyone involved. (But > then, I really don't like capitalism, either. (And yeah, I've been known to > hug the odd tree now and again.))) Imagine a world where the only thing of value is information. In this world, the initials F.S.F. are an acronym for "Free Stuff Foundation". Information has value, because it's the information about the position of atoms in an object that define that object, and there is sufficient technology to rearrange atoms any way you want to arrange them, and the only question is how to arrange them. What are the first order ramifications? People are made of atoms. If I can push atoms around effectively for free, this means I can do two really provocative things: first, if an atom moves somewhere I don't want it to, I can put it back where it came from; second, I can make exact duplicates of anything, sans spin direction on the copy's electrons. What are the second order ramifications? If I don't like your idealogy, I can change your mind. No, not by arguing; by literally changing your mind. Of course, I could be doing this "for your own good". I could even be doing this for your own good -- no quotes because there's no hypocricy needed. I could either be a zealot, or I or someone else could have changed my mind. It could even have been changed, such that I wouldn't want to change it back. What are the third order ramifications? When you can not only change what you (or someone else) wants, but what you (or someone else) wants to want, that's power. That's too much power. That's way way too much power to give to your six year old. Too much power to give to you. Your priest. Your Senator. Your President. Anyone who thinks they know what's best for you, and that you aren't acting in those best interests. How to avoid it? Don't tell anyone how to do it. Build active and passive defensive systems. Build them very well. And then give them away to everyone; an artificial immune system to an artificially created threat. Only a moron would give away the source code to his immune system. But don't worry right now. It's not an immediate threat. It's a long way off. This stuff is all theoretical. What we write today and give away under the GPL will never have an impact on trillions of tiny robots wandering around in our bodies some time in the future. After all, what does software research have to do with massively parallel distributed systems like those? An exercise: Nanotechnology AltaVista found about 52482 Web pages for you. +Nanotechnology +IBM AltaVista found 8660 Web pages for you. +Nanotechnology +Xerox AltaVista found 4125 Web pages for you. +Nanotechnology +"AT&T" AltaVista found 454 Web pages for you. +Nanotechnology +NSF AltaVista found 3025 Web pages for you. +Nanontechnology +DARPA AltaVista found 221 Web pages for you. +Nanontechnology +NSA AltaVista found 114 Web pages for you. +Nanotechnology +Russia AltaVista found 3750 Web pages for you. +Nanotechnology +China AltaVista found 4910 Web pages for you. +Nanotechnology +"North Korea" AltaVista found 47 Web pages for you. Oh yeah. There's at least a good 30 years before someone forces someone else to build something like that. On the bright side, the immune system you get will be protected by a 128 bit cryptographic system, for which only your government and a key escrow company will have the other set of keys. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 21:13:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BEAC1104C for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA27615; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:31:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd027148; Sun Feb 21 22:31:48 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA29874; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:11:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902220511.WAA29874@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:11:49 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us, tlambert@primenet.com, FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902210056.RAA16115@usr06.primenet.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 21, 99 00:56:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I suspect that Sleepycat might be violating some contributor rights with > it's relicencing of their BSD licensed code, I just haven't pressed it > too hard legally because I like Eric Allman, so his wife can't be that > bad a person. For similar reasons, I haven't beat on Eric about the > sendmail relicense. Both the dbm and the sendmail code changed > license terms. Of course, I meant Keith Bostic's wife. I'm actually a moron when it comes to names; that's why I like email so much: every part of a conversation is prefixed by the name of the person, so you don't have to pound your head on the keyboard and hope you accidently type the right name. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Feb 21 22:22:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC87310FF9 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16442; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:41:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd016406; Sun Feb 21 23:40:51 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA22889; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:22:09 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902220622.XAA22889@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: linux in New York Times To: dyson@iquest.net Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:22:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199902220326.WAA23981@y.dyson.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Feb 21, 99 10:26:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The fact is: > > The best marketeer wins. Code quality is important, but not nearly > as important as the smoke and mirrors. I have gone so far as to tell a VP of Engineering I was under at the time that the only thing good engineering or user interface is for is repeat sales, and the primary value of any company is its ability to market. Even if I walk on water, as an engineer, it's no good unless someone buys tickets to watch me do it. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 1:53:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-22.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0623D10E5F for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:52:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA01523 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:50:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:50:31 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Netscape and FreeBSD.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Looks like someone finally got through to those guys over at Netscape.. From mozilla.org/status: Submitted by Brian Ostrom Brian Ostrom has news on Unix platform work... "I've added a few more Tinderbox builds to the MozillaTest page (basically platforms that I've been able to build GLib and GTK+ on, and that have enough available disk space, I've started Tinderbox builds on): http://cvs-mirror.mozilla.org/webtools/tinderbox/showbuilds.cgi?tree=MozillaTest (The AIX, FreeBSD, BSDI, HP-UX, OSF/1, and AlphaLinux builds are mine.) FreeBSD is green, and will be moved onto the SeaMonkey page next week, after we clean up some hardware flakiness this weekend. I still need people to help get other non-Linux, non-Windoze platforms to build (successfully...)." - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 3:35:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB3510F0D for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:35:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id UAA02609; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:34:14 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36D139F9.C020B9EC@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:05:29 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: dyson@iquest.net, cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us, jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linux in New York Times References: <199902220622.XAA22889@usr05.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > Even if I walk on water, as an engineer, it's no good unless someone > buys tickets to watch me do it. MMmmmm..... I'd buy a ticket to watch you do it... :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "To make it absolutely clear: you stand on the wrong end of my blasters, so you better get lost before I start target practice!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 5:38:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gate2.consol.de (gate2.consol.de [194.221.87.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CCB1100B for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:38:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Michael.Elbel@consol.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: Michael.Elbel@consol.de (at relayer gate2.consol.de) Received: from msgsrv.bb.consol.de (root@msgsrv.bb.consol.de [10.250.0.100]) by gate2.consol.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01140; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:38:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from fourier.int.consol.de (fourier.int.consol.de [10.0.1.17]) by msgsrv.bb.consol.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23657; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:38:20 +0100 Received: (from me@localhost) by fourier.int.consol.de (8.9.2/8.8.7) id OAA42239; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:38:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from me) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:38:19 +0100 (CET) From: Michael Elbel Message-Id: <199902221338.OAA42239@fourier.int.consol.de> To: tlambert@primenet.com Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Nanotechnology, was Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' References: <199902220508.WAA29696@usr07.primenet.com> Reply-To: me@freebsd.org X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #123 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In lists.freebsd.advocacy you write: >People are made of atoms. If I can push atoms around effectively >for free, this means I can do two really provocative things: first, >if an atom moves somewhere I don't want it to, I can put it back >where it came from; second, I can make exact duplicates of anything, >sans spin direction on the copy's electrons. [...] >Nanotechnology AltaVista found about 52482 Web pages for you. [...] Interesting that you should write this while I'm reading "The Diamond Age" by Neal Stephenson that touches almost the same subject - namely what happens if you take nanotechnology to some logical extreme, coming to the conclusion that information in its various forms is all that's left. Michael -- \|/ -O- Michael Elbel, ConSol* GmbH, - me@consol.de - 089 / 45841-256 /|\ Fermentation fault (coors dumped) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 11:44:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311CE110F8 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:44:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.186]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA34E9; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:44:40 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon.ninth-circle.org [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01006; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:44:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:44:44 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Alex Zepeda Subject: RE: Netscape and FreeBSD.. Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Feb-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: > Looks like someone finally got through to those guys over at Netscape.. > From mozilla.org/status: WHOAOOHAHAH! And we all rejoiced! =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven http://www.freebsdzine.org> asmodai(at)wxs.nl This is my Truth, tell me your's... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 12:54:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from stumpy.dannyland.org (danman.isdn.uiuc.edu [192.17.16.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF96011013 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:54:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dannyman@stumpy.dannyland.org) Received: (qmail 24382 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Feb 1999 20:54:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:54:58 -0600 From: dannyman To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Alex Zepeda , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape and FreeBSD.. Message-ID: <19990222145457.C8794@stumpy.dannyland.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai on Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 08:44:44PM +0100 X-Loop: djhoward@uiuc.edu X-URL: http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 08:44:44PM +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 22-Feb-99 Alex Zepeda wrote: > > Looks like someone finally got through to those guys over at Netscape.. > > From mozilla.org/status: > > WHOAOOHAHAH! > > And we all rejoiced! =) What a nice coincidence that I'm trying to build Mozilla. :) http://cvs-mirror.mozilla.org/webtools/tinderbox/showbuilds.cgi?tree=MozillaTest&showall=1.cgi - at this time, FreeBSD and one Linux box look to be the only ones compiling. :) -- dannyman - http://www.dannyland.org/~dannyman/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 15:17:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bbcc.ctc.edu (bbcc.ctc.edu [134.39.180.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3698111816 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:17:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bbcc.ctc.edu) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bbcc.ctc.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA11413; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:10:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:10:24 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Robert Watson Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I My gateway contact wants to send FreeBSD an Eval computer for certification. What Gateway configuration would you be looking for? -Chris On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Robert Watson wrote: > > I emailed three computer companies: Gateway, Dell and Micron, asking for a > quote for a developer machine. I described essentially a high-end PC > workstation-class machine, and on the list of requirements was FreeBSD. I > heard back from none of the companies. One of them, I know that the email > was read because I received a CC of an email asking someone to address my > needs, not that they were ever addressed. > > I must admit, I was hoping for at least a *rejection*... As I'm looking > to buy a machine or two in about 5 months, I figured I'd start asking > around now to drum up support, but things don't look great. > > If someone digs up contacts for these kinds of things, I'd be glad to call > them in my effort to find some workstations. > > On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Chris Coleman wrote: > > > I just spoke with my contacts at gateway. We are one of their major > > accounts, so they do take some notice of us. I asked them about shipping > > computers with FreeBSD installed, instead of WinNT. My contact is going > > to look up the person in the engineering department that I would need to > > send "Evaluation Copies" of FreeBSD to. > > > > (Jordan, I might need some FreeBSD CD's soon :-) > > > > She said that she hasn't had any demand for alternative OS's and didn't > > see it on their immediate software road map. > > > > Well, it looks like it is time to generate some demand, or at least some > > notice. > > > > You might suggest to your contacts at Gateway, (if you don't have any, > > make some) that it would be really great if they would ship their web > > servers with FreeBSD. > > > > Or, suggest that you would like to see "FreeBSD Certified" on their web > > pages. > > > > Since Dell is offering Linux, its probably a good time to focus on Gateway > > to get them to offer FreeBSD. > > > > -Chris > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > > Robert N Watson > > robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ > PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C > > Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ > TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ > SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 15:26:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (FLEDGE.RES.CMU.EDU [128.2.93.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDBA1110C1 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:26:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from robert@cyrus.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA15462; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:26:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:26:45 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: Robert Watson To: Chris Coleman Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Chris Coleman wrote: > I My gateway contact wants to send FreeBSD an Eval computer for > certification. What Gateway configuration would you be looking for? Chris, I'm looking at two machines, one server-class and one workstation-class. I have only spec'd out the workstation at this point, and have attached an approximate spec below. The server would most likely be a similar processor, more memory, strictly boring video support, and preferably RAID-capable SCSI interface. Given that FreeBSD seems to support DPT RAID controllers best at this point, I was looking at that; also, a transparent "pretend to be adaptec" controllar would also work fine. The server purchase might not be for several months; the workstation purchase in the next two months most likely. This spec is essentially the same as the one I emailed out and did not get a response on. Thanks for your help! Getting some form of vendor support/etc for the machine would be great. PII 400 or 450Mhz 128MB of memory 21" or greater monitor No need for 3d acceleration on the video card, but performance for video conferencing an large-scale window systems/frame buffers is important. Similarly, a sound card suitable for use in moderate quality video-conferencing. 10/100baset ethernet card SCSI disk subsystem with: At least 6gig hard disk (largely disk cache for a distributed file system such as AFS) CD-ROM drive (any speed) Ergonomic keyboard, mouse No modem No need for a backup device No Applications FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE operating system, with X-windows (XIG or XFree86) Robert N Watson robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 16: 6:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D30510EA2 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id QAA12504; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:05:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id QAA29741; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:05:35 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id RAA07865; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:05:27 -0700 Message-ID: <36D1F0C5.6C2B6860@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:05:25 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: Robert Watson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@cdrom.com, dg@root.com Subject: Re: Gateway Computers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > I My gateway contact wants to send FreeBSD an Eval computer for > certification. What Gateway configuration would you be looking for? > > -Chris Cool as snot! A giant, butt-kicking 4-way Xeon 450 machine, of course. Oh, for the PROJECT. Ahem. Probably better ask Jordan or David, I'd imagine. I'm sure they can come up with some good torture test, er, use to put it to. Would this be a short-term loan, or a long-term (i.e. keep it until it rots, but it's still official Gateway property) loan? -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 16:18:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bbcc.ctc.edu (bbcc.ctc.edu [134.39.180.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6BD10F76 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bbcc.ctc.edu) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bbcc.ctc.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA12475; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:11:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:11:37 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Wes Peters Cc: Robert Watson , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@cdrom.com, dg@root.com Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: <36D1F0C5.6C2B6860@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Chris Coleman wrote: > > > > My gateway contact wants to send FreeBSD an Eval computer for > > certification. What Gateway configuration would you be looking for? > > > > -Chris > > Cool as snot! A giant, butt-kicking 4-way Xeon 450 machine, of course. > > Oh, for the PROJECT. Ahem. Probably better ask Jordan or David, I'd > imagine. I'm sure they can come up with some good torture test, er, > use to put it to. Would this be a short-term loan, or a long-term > (i.e. keep it until it rots, but it's still official Gateway property) > loan? I think they were talking 60 days or so. But it would depend on what happens I guess. I need to contact jordan or someone about where to have it sent. DG is out of town. :-( -Chris > > -- > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > > Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 > Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 16:32:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pcslink.com (pcslink.com [206.43.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F027610E9A for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:32:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ryan@pcslink.com) Received: (from ryan@localhost) by pcslink.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id RAA23747; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:31:58 -0700 (MST) From: Ryan Mooney Message-Id: <199902230031.RAA23747@pcslink.com> Subject: Re: Gateway Computers In-Reply-To: from Robert Watson at "Feb 22, 99 06:26:45 pm" To: robert+freebsd@cyrus.watson.org Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:31:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: chris@bbcc.ctc.edu, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dunno if this makes a difference on the Raid, but I just got a deal back from a Infortrend reseller for the FreeBSD community for a little better pricing than retail... This is on the SCSI-SCSI cards.... I've been working on a FreeBSD Raid web site at: http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/raid/ Not complete yet, but it has links to the Infortrend info... Once the complete thing is up I was intending to announce it generally, but who knows when that will be :) > > Chris, > > I'm looking at two machines, one server-class and one workstation-class. > I have only spec'd out the workstation at this point, and have attached an > approximate spec below. The server would most likely be a similar > processor, more memory, strictly boring video support, and preferably > RAID-capable SCSI interface. Given that FreeBSD seems to support DPT RAID > controllers best at this point, I was looking at that; also, a transparent > "pretend to be adaptec" controllar would also work fine. The server > purchase might not be for several months; the workstation purchase in the > next two months most likely. This spec is essentially the same as the one > I emailed out and did not get a response on. Thanks for your help! > Getting some form of vendor support/etc for the machine would be great. > > PII 400 or 450Mhz > 128MB of memory > 21" or greater monitor > No need for 3d acceleration on the video card, but performance for video > conferencing an large-scale window systems/frame buffers is important. > Similarly, a sound card suitable for use in moderate quality > video-conferencing. > 10/100baset ethernet card > SCSI disk subsystem with: > At least 6gig hard disk (largely disk cache for a distributed file > system such as AFS) > CD-ROM drive (any speed) > Ergonomic keyboard, mouse > No modem > No need for a backup device > No Applications > FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE operating system, with X-windows (XIG or XFree86) > > > Robert N Watson > > robert@fledge.watson.org http://www.watson.org/~robert/ > PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73 25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C > > Carnegie Mellon University http://www.cmu.edu/ > TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc. http://www.tis.com/ > SafePort Network Services http://www.safeport.com/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-<>-=-=-=-=-=-=-< Ryan Mooney Phone (602)265-9188 PCSLink ryan@pcslink.com Internet Services NT is an excellent choice for managers who need to show that they used up their fiscal year budget for hardware/software expenditures. <-=-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-><-=-=-=-=-=-=-> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 18: 9:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFCD119CA; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:09:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA09923; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:09:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd009895; Mon Feb 22 19:08:55 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12722; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:08:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902230208.TAA12722@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Nanotechnology, was Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' To: me@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 02:08:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199902221338.OAA42239@fourier.int.consol.de> from "Michael Elbel" at Feb 22, 99 02:38:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Nanotechnology AltaVista found about 52482 Web pages for you. > > [...] > > Interesting that you should write this while I'm reading "The Diamond Age" > by Neal Stephenson that touches almost the same subject - namely what > happens if you take nanotechnology to some logical extreme, coming to the > conclusion that information in its various forms is all that's left. Note the authors idea of "active shields" -- the synthetic "immune system". It seems to address the liberty issues that arise. The question then is "How do we get there from here?". Another interesting read is Greg Bear's "Slant"; it's about more mundane (military) applications, as part of the backdrop. He coins the acronym "MGN" for "Military Grade Nano". Another interesting read is "Blood Music". Get the short story from a library copy of Analog, instead of the Novelized form; it's really a short story. It's also about Greg Bear; it's the archetypal "Gray Goo" scenario. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Feb 22 18:23:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from sinfonix.rz.tu-clausthal.de (sinfonix.rz.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.2.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DD1711DA0 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:23:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nordenholz@rz.tu-clausthal.de) Received: from troubadix.rz.tu-clausthal.de (IDENT:HgfV4eUgFTnGn8tkkCvpkPe3/9RPI9vP@troubadix.rz.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.2.23]) by sinfonix.rz.tu-clausthal.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id DAA21623 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:23:13 +0100 (MET) From: Thiemo Nordenholz Received: (from svtn@localhost) by troubadix.rz.tu-clausthal.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) id DAA24141 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:23:12 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902230223.DAA24141@troubadix.rz.tu-clausthal.de> Subject: FreeBSD cellphone design... To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 03:23:12 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi FreeBSDers, At a computer and electronics trade fair I have found a company designing (among other things) cellphone covers, so I thought, why not have a BSD cellphone? I printed a drawing of the FreeBSD daemon, handed it to the airbrush guy - and two hours later the cover was ready... Really *cool*, I think ;-) You can have a look at some photos of the result at http://mygiea.heim8.tu-clausthal.de/projects/handy/ Have fun, Thiemo -- Thiemo Nordenholz stud.chem. RZ fb-mvc nordenholz@rz.tu-clausthal.de "Real programmers don't die - they just get out of beta" PGP, GEEK, info: finger -l svtn@ra.rz.tu-clausthal.de "RTFM, Don't ask!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 0: 9:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA631130D; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA16573; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:39:16 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA49981; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:39:10 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990223183910.P93492@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:39:10 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD advocacy list , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Bill Gates: "FreeBSD is our competitor" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In an otherwise forgettable interview with Bill Gates published in issue 4/1999 of the German magazine c't, I note the following question and answer fragment: c't: How much competition does Linux really pose to Windows NT? More and more large companies are using Linux. Could that become dangerous for NT? Gates: Windows NT has always had some competition. FreeBSD has been around for a long time. Apache, free software, has been used by large companies for a long time. Maybe you have only noticed it now. We have had competition from free software for a long time. Our job is to do the things that people expect from an operating system [excuse me while a laugh myself silly. Ah, that's better] and to bring it to a completely new level. That is what we're doing with Windows 2000. That is what we will do if future versions. [More stuff omitted. He did *not* mention Linux in his answer. This is pretty typical of the interview, which I found a bit disappointing. The interviewers could have really hammered him in a couple of places, but if they did, they didn't publish it]. For those of you who read c't, it's in the middle of the right-hand column on page 20. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 0:19: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1CF812020; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:18:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA16598; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:48:43 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA49999; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:48:41 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990223184841.Q93492@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:48:41 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , FreeBSD advocacy list , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Bill Gates: "FreeBSD is our competitor" References: <19990223183910.P93492@lemis.com> <4.1.19990223011331.0097bb80@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990223011331.0097bb80@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Feb 23, 1999 at 01:16:15AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 23 February 1999 at 1:16:15 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 06:39 PM 2/23/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> In an otherwise forgettable interview with Bill Gates published in >> issue 4/1999 of the German magazine c't, I note the following question >> and answer fragment: >> >> c't: How much competition does Linux really pose to Windows NT? >> More and more large companies are using Linux. Could that >> become dangerous for NT? >> >> Gates: Windows NT has always had some competition. FreeBSD has been >> around for a long time. Apache, free software, has been used >> by large companies for a long time. Maybe you have only >> noticed it now. We have had competition from free software for >> a long time. Our job is to do the things that people expect >> from an operating system [excuse me while a laugh myself silly. >> Ah, that's better] and to bring it to a completely new level. >> That is what we're doing with Windows 2000. That is what we >> will do if future versions. >> >> [More stuff omitted. He did *not* mention Linux in his answer. >> This is pretty typical of the interview, which I found a bit >> disappointing. The interviewers could have really hammered him >> in a couple of places, but if they did, they didn't publish >> it]. >> >> For those of you who read c't, it's in the middle of the right-hand >> column on page 20. > > Microsoft execs have a practice of decreeing that employees must > NOT mention a major competitor's name, especially in the presence > of reporters. They would, for instance, pay a fine if they mentioned > the "N-word" (that is, "Netscape") instead of saying, "that browser > company." > > I suspect that the same sort of edict has been issued with regard > to Linux. Certainly I thought that he used the name FreeBSD to change the subject, but firstly I don't think any such edict would apply to King Bill, and secondly he spoke at length about Netscape, AOL and Sun in the interview (without saying very much). Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 0:19:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2EA11F8C; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:16:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA02823; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:16:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990223011331.0097bb80@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:16:15 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD advocacy list , FreeBSD Chat From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Bill Gates: "FreeBSD is our competitor" In-Reply-To: <19990223183910.P93492@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Microsoft execs have a practice of decreeing that employees must NOT mention a major competitor's name, especially in the presence of reporters. They would, for instance, pay a fine if they mentioned the "N-word" (that is, "Netscape") instead of saying, "that browser company." I suspect that the same sort of edict has been issued with regard to Linux. --Brett At 06:39 PM 2/23/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >In an otherwise forgettable interview with Bill Gates published in >issue 4/1999 of the German magazine c't, I note the following question >and answer fragment: > >c't: How much competition does Linux really pose to Windows NT? > More and more large companies are using Linux. Could that > become dangerous for NT? > >Gates: Windows NT has always had some competition. FreeBSD has been > around for a long time. Apache, free software, has been used > by large companies for a long time. Maybe you have only > noticed it now. We have had competition from free software for > a long time. Our job is to do the things that people expect > from an operating system [excuse me while a laugh myself silly. > Ah, that's better] and to bring it to a completely new level. > That is what we're doing with Windows 2000. That is what we > will do if future versions. > > [More stuff omitted. He did *not* mention Linux in his answer. > This is pretty typical of the interview, which I found a bit > disappointing. The interviewers could have really hammered him > in a couple of places, but if they did, they didn't publish > it]. > >For those of you who read c't, it's in the middle of the right-hand >column on page 20. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 0:22:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E27D1206C; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:22:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA02863; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:22:13 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990223012028.00b55bf0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 01:22:10 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD advocacy list , FreeBSD Chat From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Bill Gates: "FreeBSD is our competitor" In-Reply-To: <19990223184841.Q93492@lemis.com> References: <4.1.19990223011331.0097bb80@mail.lariat.org> <19990223183910.P93492@lemis.com> <4.1.19990223011331.0097bb80@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:48 PM 2/23/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >Certainly I thought that he used the name FreeBSD to change the >subject, but firstly I don't think any such edict would apply to King >Bill, and secondly he spoke at length about Netscape, AOL and Sun in >the interview (without saying very much). The edict expires when the competitor is neutralized. However, the fines for the rich execs are higher than for the rank and file -- in fact, they're rumored to be 5 digits or more. Sort of a high-stakes game that's played among them. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 4:25: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC77111CE for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:25:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id EAA10825 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:25:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000601be5f27$833b08c0$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: Intel says Linux unstoppable Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:24:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.theregister.co.uk/990223-000002.html Posted 23/02/99 12:19am by Mike Magee in Palm Springs Intel says Linux unstoppable Pat Gelsinger, senior VP of desktop products at Intel US, told The Register today that projections showed that Linux is growing fast as a platform for the server market. But Gelsinger, who tomorrow will deliver the first keynote speech at the Intel Developer Forum, said he thought it was unlikely that the phenomenon would have the same effect on the desktop. He said that Windows NT server was projected as showing flat growth during this year, and Linux was popular with ISPs and others, while sales of other flavours of Unix were flat. Gelsinger said that on the desktop, Linux was a different matter, because of the lack of applications for the platform and because there was still no agreement on an interface which could match Windows' ease of use. Further, he said, Microsoft ruled the application market, and that there were few apps available for end users on the desktop. ® To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 4:44:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0470311054 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:44:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jackv@earthling.net) Received: from jackv (adsl-209-76-108-106.dsl.pacbell.net [209.76.108.106]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id EAA24691 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:44:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001b01be5f2a$31325580$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Reply-To: "Jack Velte" From: "Jack Velte" To: Subject: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:36:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG By Stephen Shankland (stephens@cnet.com) Staff Writer, CNET News.com February 23, 1999, 4:00 a.m. PT Santa Cruz Operation added the ability to run Linux programs to its UnixWare operating system, declaring that the upstart operating system has helped UnixWare more than it has harmed it. While Microsoft executives say Linux competes chiefly with Unix systems such as SCO's instead of Windows NT, SCO believes the opposite. "So far as we've seen it's actually helped us," said Greg Schwarzer, director of small and medium business marketing at SCO. "Linux has got the word out that Unix on Intel is a viable alternative to Microsoft." In moving from version 7 to 7.1, SCO also has added a new version of UnixWare geared for smaller businesses and has added a "Webtop" that lets users and managers communicate with a UnixWare server using only a Java-enabled Web browser, Schwarzer said. The new $1,399 Business Edition of UnixWare joins its higher-end brethren, the Departmental Edition and Enterprise Edition. And next month, SCO will announce a new top-end version geared for the "data center" computer, which companies use to run their most important programs, he added. Do you want to know more? Read related news View story in The Big Picture Go to Message Boards Search News.com The new Business Edition of UnixWare will gradually supplant SCO's OpenServer in the small to medium business market, Schwarzer said, although SCO will continue to support the company's older Unix product by writing drivers, for example. UnixWare will henceforth get most of SCO's development efforts, and OpenServer won't get any new features. OpenServer is a Unix product ultimately derived from a Microsoft version of Unix called Xenix. UnixWare, on the other hand, is the version of Unix SCO obtained from AT&T, via Novell, in 1995. Several companies must pay SCO royalties for their Unix products, Schwarzer said. The future of Unix is equally complex. In a joint project with IBM and Sequent called Monterey, SCO and the other companies are turning SCO's UnixWare and IBM's AIX into a new version of Unix for systems using PowerPC chips and next-generation Intel 64-bit chips. In the future, Schwarzer predicts that the Unix market will consolidate. Monterey, along with Sun Microsystem's Solaris and Hewlett-Packard's HP-UX, will remain as contenders, while others such as Silicon Graphics' Irix, Compaq's Tru64 Unix (formerly Digital Unix), and Data General's DG/UX will fall by the wayside. Linux, meanwhile, has reinvigorated the Unix market, he said. "It has given a fresh, revitalized look to what people could do in the Intel space. Linux is a Unix movement. Revenues are going up strongly," Schwarzer said. Adding support for Linux was a pragmatic choice. "We wanted our users to be able to take advantage of a lot of those applications being written for Linux," he said. SCO has made the Linux compatibility software source code--the original programming instructions--publicly available, he said, giving the code back to the open source programming community that has developed Linux. More important than the Linux support is the new WebTop software, Schwarzer said. WebTop is software that lets people interact with UnixWare servers using a Java-enabled Web browser, simplifying tasks such as launching programs on the server, checking who's on the network, and interacting with programs. The browser interface works with either graphical or text-based programs. Special "application broker" software on the server intercepts the requests from clients and the responses from the server, translating back and forth so that programs on the server don't have to be rewritten. WebTop expands the number of systems that can be used by clients, Schwarzer said, mentioning regular PCs, network computers, or dialup computers from home. SCO will demonstrate the WebTop software at the LinuxWorld Expo next week in San Jose, California. Along with WebTop, UnixWare Business Edition comes with support for streaming audio and video technology from Real Networks. SCO also has improved its VisionFS software, which provides file and print services for Windows machines. UnixWare 7.1 also comes with ArcserveIT backup software. The Business Edition supports a single-CPU system with up 4 gigabytes of memory and up to five users. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 11:34:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBCF31119B for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:34:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA64897; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Jack Velte" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:36:01 EST." <001b01be5f2a$31325580$6a6c4cd1@jackv.pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:34:35 -0800 Message-ID: <64893.919798475@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jack, I don't know whether you just took a wrong turn on your way to the gents or something, but this is not the linux-advocacy list. By the logic(?) I see being displayed in your own selections, we might just as well start posting Microsoft's NT press releases here since NT is obviously the bigger competitor. If I want to read Linux press announcements, and I more than occasionally do, I'll subscribe to the APPROPRIATE mailing list for that purpose (hint: it's run by an organization called "Linux International" not "The FreeBSD Project). So please, knock it off. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 13:44:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ECCF11790 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:44:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03426; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd003312; Tue Feb 23 14:43:57 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA14867; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:43:51 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902232143.OAA14867@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:43:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <64893.919798475@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 23, 99 11:34:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't know whether you just took a wrong turn on your way to the > gents or something, but this is not the linux-advocacy list. By the > logic(?) I see being displayed in your own selections, we might just > as well start posting Microsoft's NT press releases here since NT is > obviously the bigger competitor. I think that NT isn't getting as much press as Linux, or he would. Basically, I view Jack's postings as "here's an advocacy project". > If I want to read Linux press announcements, and I more than > occasionally do, I'll subscribe to the APPROPRIATE mailing list for > that purpose (hint: it's run by an organization called "Linux > International" not "The FreeBSD Project). > > So please, knock it off. I think a WWW page linking the releases would be more useful, with posts about updates to the page. On the other hand, this would probably take more effort than the current method, and so might fend Jack off from helping advocacy in what way he can -- a mistake, IMO. My take on the postings: They are a call for people doing similar things with FreeBSD to step forward and contact the press with the information. Many FreeBSD people can't believe what gets published about Linux. As you yourself said at the last BAFUG meeting, the press will pretty much publish anything; they are very hungry for content. But your saying this, and Jack demonstrating it at a visceral level are two very different things. I find Jack's stuff much more motivating, as in "write something like this", as opposed to "write anything, I don't know what". My two cents worth, anway. I think it's unreasonable to expect the postings on an advocacy list to not be. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 13:55: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ADF9D1180F for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:55:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 13475 invoked from network); 23 Feb 1999 21:55:00 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 1999 21:55:00 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA04473; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:54:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902232154.QAA04473@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features In-Reply-To: <64893.919798475@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Feb 23, 99 11:34:35 am" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:54:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jordan K. Hubbard said: > > If I want to read Linux press announcements, and I more than > occasionally do, I'll subscribe to the APPROPRIATE mailing list for > that purpose (hint: it's run by an organization called "Linux > International" not "The FreeBSD Project). > > So please, knock it off. > It is *extremely* irritating to me also. Maybe it might motivate those who have PR skills, but it really "feels painful" to those who dont, and can do little about the problem. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 15:16:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A42110E1 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:16:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA79580; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:18:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902232143.OAA14867@usr06.primenet.com> References: <64893.919798475@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 23, 99 11:34:35 am Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:16:51 -0500 To: Terry Lambert , jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features Cc: jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 9:43 PM +0000 2/23/99, Terry Lambert wrote: >> I don't know whether you just took a wrong turn on your way to the >> gents or something, but this is not the linux-advocacy list. By the >> logic(?) I see being displayed in your own selections, we might just >> as well start posting Microsoft's NT press releases here since NT is >> obviously the bigger competitor. > >I think that NT isn't getting as much press as Linux, or he would. > >Basically, I view Jack's postings as "here's an advocacy project". They strike me as more of "here's the complete press release about something related to Linux, without a single word (either in the press release or from Jack) about how this relates to freebsd". I can imagine these messages could be intended to help freebsd advocacy in some way, if Jack would have at least mentioned a connection, so the messages did not irritate me the way they seemed to have irritated Jordan. Still, I do not see freebsd advocacy as a place for people to copy complete press releases about every operating system EXCEPT FreeBSD, in some imagined effort to "encourage" us to write stuff about freebsd. Similarly, I do not expect freebsd-current to contain a million answers to programming questions about WindowsNT, under the guise of "encouraging" us to write more programs for FreeBSD. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 16:36:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-4.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11AA111568 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:36:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA48709; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:35:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:35:59 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Thiemo Nordenholz Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD cellphone design... In-Reply-To: <199902230223.DAA24141@troubadix.rz.tu-clausthal.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At a computer and electronics trade fair I have found a company designing > (among other things) cellphone covers, so I thought, why not have a BSD > cellphone? I printed a drawing of the FreeBSD daemon, handed it to the > airbrush guy - and two hours later the cover was ready... Really *cool*, I > think ;-) These would rock.. bring em to say a Linux User Group meeting, or perhaps the next big MS publicity stunt.. And how much do they cost? > You can have a look at some photos of the result at > http://mygiea.heim8.tu-clausthal.de/projects/handy/ Let's just hope you don't have to call the operator ;) - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 16:51:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AA11119B for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:51:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA65803; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:49:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Terry Lambert Cc: jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:43:50 GMT." <199902232143.OAA14867@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:49:59 -0800 Message-ID: <65799.919817399@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I think that NT isn't getting as much press as Linux, or he would. It's still not the correct metric to use since someone else might feel differently about who or what is getting the press. We need to keep an eye on what the others are doing, sure, but the lion's share of this list's bandwidth and energy has been historically taken up by people gritching non-stop about what Linux is doing about yadda yadda yadda and that's just not productive. That's getting lost focusing on the Alligators and forgetting all about the objective to drain the swamp - an understandable human tendency, to be sure, but also a great way of getting absolutely nothing done for a long time. Almost every time I see any amount of energy collecting in this group, it seems that somebody shorts it to ground by starting the "Why is Linux doing this and us not?!" argument all over again. It's not focusing on the solution, it's focusing on the problem. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Feb 23 17:35:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82D7115D5 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:35:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA20500; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:37:08 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <579.919329574@zippy.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:02:52 GMT." <36CBD73C.A9BDBC51@trltech.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:35:48 -0500 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Applixware Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 1:19 AM -0800 2/18/99, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Does anybody care that the delivery date for the Applixware port >> has slipped nine months, days before it was due to be shipped? > > I think 9 months may be a bit overstating the case; I'm not sure who > made the update to the timeline on that page or when they did it, but > as someone who's been watching the Applixware porting project rather > directly, I can say that 9 months is hopefully the very longest it > could possibly take, not the time we're actually hoping for. One thing I'm a little confused about. Back when I first noticed some comments about Applixware for FreeBSD, I had the impression that it was something in the same product catagory as "Microsoft Office". Looking at the description pointed at by Walnut Creek though, I see it's a open suite of integrated desktop tools that enable individual users with time-critical and historical data needs to access, analyze, display and communicate information from a universal desktop across heterogeneous client/server environments I'm not even sure I understand what that means, although I do appreciate the high buzzword-ratio. It sounds more like some kind of data-analysis tool. From the same web page, it looks like "Applix Office" is more along the lines of what I thought Applixware was. Now, it's also possible that "Applix Office" is *part* of Applixware, but I'm a bit confused by the descriptions on the web pages. So, if I want something that does MS-Word and MS-PowerPoint like tasks, is this Applixware for freebsd the thing I should be looking forward to? (I don't use MS-Excel at all, although I would be interested in something more like Lotus's Improv). --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 14:16:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from donald.heim8.tu-clausthal.de (donald.heim8.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.248.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B11F12368 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thiemo@donald.heim8.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from thiemo@localhost) by donald.heim8.tu-clausthal.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA00537; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:09:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from thiemo) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:09:07 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199902241309.OAA00537@donald.heim8.tu-clausthal.de> To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD cellphone design... Newsgroups: list.freebsd-advocacy References: <7avhkr$alb$1@atlantis.rz.tu-clausthal.de> From: Thiemo Nordenholz X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >And how much do they cost? Well, the cover was 20 DEM, that rubberish keyboard thingy 5 DEM, the airbrushing itself 45 DEM. Not really cheap, but worth it imho ;-) -- Thiemo Nordenholz Chemistry *BSD WinNT CP Coffee! 486DX2/80 fBSD 2.2.7 486DX2/66 fBSD 2.2.6 AXPpci33 oBSD/alpha 2.4 MP2k NOS2.1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 14:17:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8E4122B5 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:13:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr04.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26345; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:30:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr04.primenet.com(206.165.6.204) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd026212; Wed Feb 24 11:30:04 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA02786; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:29:16 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199902241829.LAA02786@usr04.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features To: dyson@iquest.net Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:29:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199902232154.QAA04473@y.dyson.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Feb 23, 99 04:54:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > If I want to read Linux press announcements, and I more than > > occasionally do, I'll subscribe to the APPROPRIATE mailing list for > > that purpose (hint: it's run by an organization called "Linux > > International" not "The FreeBSD Project). > > > > So please, knock it off. > > It is *extremely* irritating to me also. Maybe it might motivate > those who have PR skills, but it really "feels painful" to those > who dont, and can do little about the problem. What is appropriate for an "advocacy list"? Self congratulation and other forms of cheering? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 15:35: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4221114E0C for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:34:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 14034 invoked from network); 24 Feb 1999 22:34:21 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 1999 22:34:21 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA07229; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:34:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902242234.RAA07229@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features In-Reply-To: <199902241829.LAA02786@usr04.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 24, 99 06:29:09 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:34:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert said: > > > If I want to read Linux press announcements, and I more than > > > occasionally do, I'll subscribe to the APPROPRIATE mailing list for > > > that purpose (hint: it's run by an organization called "Linux > > > International" not "The FreeBSD Project). > > > > > > So please, knock it off. > > > > It is *extremely* irritating to me also. Maybe it might motivate > > those who have PR skills, but it really "feels painful" to those > > who dont, and can do little about the problem. > > What is appropriate for an "advocacy list"? Self congratulation > and other forms of cheering? > Of course :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 16:30:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19DAF14C11 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:29:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4007.ime.net [209.90.195.17]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.3/8.8.8-Loki) with ESMTP id TAA73550; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:28:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.2.0.25.19990224192616.03b84890@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.25 (Beta) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:27:13 -0500 To: Thiemo Nordenholz , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: FreeBSD cellphone design... In-Reply-To: <199902241309.OAA00537@donald.heim8.tu-clausthal.de> References: <7avhkr$alb$1@atlantis.rz.tu-clausthal.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 08:09 AM 2/24/99 , Thiemo Nordenholz wrote: >>And how much do they cost? > >Well, the cover was 20 DEM, that rubberish keyboard thingy 5 DEM, the >airbrushing itself 45 DEM. Not really cheap, but worth it imho ;-) about 50 bucks US.. that's not too too bad for what you get... after all, stuff like that can make you the talk of the town, and people pay more for clothing to make themselves status symbols *grin*.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP DSS/1024 Public Key ID: 0x409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 19:48:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ABA5B14CF9 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:48:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 25501 invoked by alias); 25 Feb 1999 03:48:08 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 25368 invoked by uid 0); 25 Feb 1999 03:48:02 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 1999 03:48:02 -0000 Message-ID: <36D4C77E.66EADFB9@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:46:06 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Focus on the solution References: <65799.919817399@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Feb 24, 1999 @ around 12:50am GMT "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > Almost every time I see any amount of energy collecting in this > group, it seems that somebody shorts it to ground by starting the > "Why is Linux doing this and us not?!" argument all over again. > It's not focusing on the solution, it's focusing on the problem. Perhaps it's time to formally organize a task force of sorts to do nothing but work on the solution, using the problem as a reference point. Or am I just reiterating an old idea? I don't have FreeBSD installed yet (not enough disk space and I need Windows), but I'll help out any way I can. P.S. My apologies if this gets posted twice, I think majordomo is ignoring my other email address. -- Darren Pilgrim, CIO/CTO, PAS Inc. -------...........---- ICQ: 29880099 dpilgrim@uswest.net or gryph@mindless.com \\\\|//// PGP-DH/DSS Enabled If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind. Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 20:38:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C93414D0E for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:38:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id UAA08005; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:30:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id UAA15944; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:30:28 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id VAA17352; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: <36D4D1D9.A71FB621@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:30:17 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Lambert Cc: dyson@iquest.net, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com, jackv@earthling.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SCO revamps UnixWare with Linux features References: <199902241829.LAA02786@usr04.primenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > > > If I want to read Linux press announcements, and I more than > > > occasionally do, I'll subscribe to the APPROPRIATE mailing list for > > > that purpose (hint: it's run by an organization called "Linux > > > International" not "The FreeBSD Project). > > > > > > So please, knock it off. > > > > It is *extremely* irritating to me also. Maybe it might motivate > > those who have PR skills, but it really "feels painful" to those > > who dont, and can do little about the problem. > > What is appropriate for an "advocacy list"? Self congratulation > and other forms of cheering? Planning our own advocacy activities, as opposed to just whining about those of others? Nah, it'd never work. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 21:48:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from acheron.middleboro.ma.us (acheron.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.162.149]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19071508A for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:48:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us) Received: (from mason@localhost) by acheron.middleboro.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04976; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:47:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:47:55 -0500 From: Mason Loring Bliss To: Terry Lambert Cc: FreeBSD-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NetBSD/Linux 'distribution' Message-ID: <19990225004755.P414@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> References: <19990220225046.M11361@acheron.middleboro.ma.us> <199902220508.WAA29696@usr07.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902220508.WAA29696@usr07.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 05:08:51AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 05:08:51AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: [...] > In this world, the initials F.S.F. are an acronym for "Free Stuff > Foundation". Information has value, because it's the information > about the position of atoms in an object that define that object, > and there is sufficient technology to rearrange atoms any way you > want to arrange them, and the only question is how to arrange them. [...] > If I don't like your idealogy, I can change your mind. No, not by > arguing; by literally changing your mind. [...] > When you can not only change what you (or someone else) wants, but > what you (or someone else) wants to want, that's power. That's > too much power. That's way way too much power to give to your > six year old. Too much power to give to you. Your priest. Your > Senator. Your President. Anyone who thinks they know what's best > for you, and that you aren't acting in those best interests. [...] > Don't tell anyone how to do it. Build active and passive defensive > systems. Build them very well. And then give them away to everyone; > an artificial immune system to an artificially created threat. > > Only a moron would give away the source code to his immune system. > > But don't worry right now. It's not an immediate threat. It's a > long way off. This stuff is all theoretical. What we write today > and give away under the GPL will never have an impact on trillions > of tiny robots wandering around in our bodies some time in the > future. After all, what does software research have to do with > massively parallel distributed systems like those? [...] > Oh yeah. There's at least a good 30 years before someone forces > someone else to build something like that. There are a few problems with this. First, you're assuming that there's originality in the world, and that if you design your ideal immune system, no one else will be able to figure it out. That ignores both reverse engineering and guesswork/testing by a tenacious opponent. Next, you're discounting cultural evolution. Keeping secrets leads to escalation. "I don't know what you've got, so I'll build something big enough to destroy what I think you've got." It's been said that our science and technology has arrested our physical evolution, and that our future growth as a species will involve mental and cultural change. I think of the GPL as a "civilizing" influence. If we as a species survive past our this stage of mad pollution and overpopulation, we'll likely learn to share, making the basic idea behind the GPL the accepted, unconscious norm, rather than something which must be actively exercised in the face of covetous greet. But, anyway, to get back to the point... Proprietary information lacks lots of things. The obvious problem is wasted effort... If information becomes proprietary, then any improvements are lost to the world. A more interesting problem with proprietary information is the lack of peer review. Would you trust me implicitly if I said I had an encryption mechanism that was far better than anything now available? What if I made a ssh workalike with my mechanism, and released the binaries. Would you use it? Or would you be more comfortable with something that is open to peer review? Is encryption the only endeavor that can benefit from peer review? How about medical equipment? Given the chance, wouldn't you much rather have something installed in your body (a pacemaker, say) that comes with source, so you can at your leasure check out the source code for potential errors? What about air traffic control software? Would peer review be useful there? My point (which I've both made obvious *and* beaten into the ground, at least from my perspective) is that the value of sharing things outweighs the value of being able to keep something to yourself. A world of proprietary software is little better than a world where we beat each other with clubs to keep our fresh-killed meat away from the next guy. I'm not saying that the BSD license is bad. It's as free as the GPL, and in some ways more free, since it imposes fewer restrictions. But, the BSD license doesn't go out of its way to make the world a better place. I don't know... I won't win this argument, in here, but I *would* like to pound home the fact that the GPL is *not* a *bad* thing, as it's painted so often by BSD people. (Of which I'm one, in a fairly die-hard way, lest you feel you're being invaded by vociferous penguins...) -- Mason Loring Bliss (( "In the drowsy dark cave of the mind dreams mason@acheron.middleboro.ma.us )) build their nest with fragments dropped http://acheron.ne.mediaone.net (( from day's caravan." - Rabindranath Tagore To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Feb 24 22:51:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ns.wan (trltech.demon.co.uk [194.222.7.191]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480A014CCB for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:49:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Received: from trltech.co.uk (rdls.dhcp.sw.wan [192.9.201.75]) by ns.wan (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16568; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:51:44 GMT (envelope-from rsmith@trltech.co.uk) Message-ID: <36D3CBD4.2C5551F6@trltech.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:52:20 +0000 From: Richard Smith Reply-To: richard@jezebel.demon.co.uk Organization: http://www.trltech.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Applixware References: Your message of "Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:02:52 GMT." <36CBD73C.A9BDBC51@trltech.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > One thing I'm a little confused about. Back when I first noticed > some comments about Applixware for FreeBSD, I had the impression that > it was something in the same product catagory as "Microsoft Office". > Looking at the description pointed at by Walnut Creek though, I > see it's a > open suite of integrated desktop tools that enable individual > users with time-critical and historical data needs to access, > analyze, display and communicate information from a universal > desktop across heterogeneous client/server environments The *strong* implication is that the "Applixware for FreeBSD" will be a port of the "Applixware for Linux" product, which is the same price and consists of (from http://www.applix.com/appware/linux/index.htm): "A CD-ROM containing the eight applications that comprise Applixware for LINUX (Words, Graphics, Spreadsheets, Mail, Data, Builder, HTML Author, and Presents)" They have additional info and screen shots for each of the applications. I use MS-Word and MS-Excel extensively, and I must say I like them, mainly because I know them _and_ their faults. Our company is almost entirely Office V9.5 based (I am opposing the natural tendency to migrate everyone to V9.7). When I get the Applixware product, it will be a pain moving to the new tools (learning how to do the complex tasks one takes for granted in the tools one knows), but any semblance of compatability with both archive data and peer data, which reduces the need to come out of my favourite operating system, will be a tick in my book. Whoops, this _isn't_ MS-Office advocacy is it? I think I'd better sink back into the shadows again :) Richard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 25 7:36:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8BC14BFE for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:36:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-053.thuntek.net [207.66.52.53]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id IAA28259; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:36:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D57D53.3E111DFD@thuntek.net> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:41:55 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Focus on the solution References: <65799.919817399@zippy.cdrom.com> <36D4C77E.66EADFB9@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > On Feb 24, 1999 @ around 12:50am GMT "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > Almost every time I see any amount of energy collecting in this > > group, it seems that somebody shorts it to ground by starting the > > "Why is Linux doing this and us not?!" argument all over again. > > It's not focusing on the solution, it's focusing on the problem. > > Perhaps it's time to formally organize a task force of sorts to do > nothing but work on the solution, using the problem as a reference > point. Or am I just reiterating an old idea? > Hi, Darren - This IS our task force, this list. Sometimes we don't all go in the same direction, and sometimes our FreeBSD Project Perl Scripts get crabby when some task force members do more finger-pointing than generating either quality code or suggestions for real advocacy. Any Internet mailing list occasionally gets clogged with this kind of noise. We have actually gotten several good projects off the ground through this list. There are several thriving new e-zines, "Install-a-thons" and documentation projects going on. Articles are being written, books prepared, etc. FreeBSD mentions in the mainstream press have gone up dramatically since this list started. Jordan Hubbard, the senior core member and Fearless Leader of the FreeBSD Project, is actually trying to hire a full-time advocacy general to supplement our individual volunteer efforts. (Dare I say it: FreeBSD Advocacy General... Nooooooo.......!!!!) > I don't have FreeBSD installed yet (not enough disk space and I > need Windows), but I'll help out any way I can. > Buy another disk and dual-boot? Warning, this stuff is addictive!!! ;-D  -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 25 8: 5:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C098114BF1 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:05:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 24433 invoked by alias); 25 Feb 1999 16:04:51 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 24405 invoked by uid 0); 25 Feb 1999 16:04:50 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 1999 16:04:50 -0000 Message-ID: <36D5742E.83DD4CA8@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 08:02:54 -0800 From: D Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Don Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Focus on the solution References: <65799.919817399@zippy.cdrom.com> <36D4C77E.66EADFB9@uswest.net> <36D57D53.3E111DFD@thuntek.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Feb 25, 1999 @ around 4:42 GMT, "Don Wilde" wrote: > Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > Perhaps it's time to formally organize a task force of sorts to do > > nothing but work on the solution, using the problem as a reference > > point. Or am I just reiterating an old idea? > > > Hi, Darren - > This IS our task force, this list. Sometimes we don't all go in the > same direction, and sometimes our FreeBSD Project Perl Scripts get > crabby when some task force members do more finger-pointing than > generating either quality code or suggestions for real advocacy. Any > Internet mailing list occasionally gets clogged with this kind of noise. > We have actually gotten several good projects off the ground through > this list. There are several thriving new e-zines, "Install-a-thons" and > documentation projects going on. Articles are being written, books > prepared, etc. FreeBSD mentions in the mainstream press have gone up > dramatically since this list started. Jordan Hubbard, the senior core > member and Fearless Leader of the FreeBSD Project, is actually trying to > hire a full-time advocacy general to supplement our individual volunteer > efforts. (Dare I say it: FreeBSD Advocacy General... > Nooooooo.......!!!!) I knew from common sense (and asking someone) that this list's entire purpose is to mainstream FreeBSD. But in my 5 months or so of reading I had seen only a small amount of mention of any advocacy going on. Or perhaps I'm blind (wouldn't surprise me). OTOH, I'm well aware of how well Linux is doing in comparision, and how much certain persons hate the GPL... >> I don't have FreeBSD installed yet (not enough disk space and I >> need Windows), but I'll help out any way I can. >> >Buy another disk and dual-boot? Warning, this stuff is addictive!!! ;-D That's what I plan on doing, but my supplies of couch-change and magic beans have long since dried up and all my disposable income is going into paying down the loan I took out to build myself a new computer and to feed the US$60/month Internet monkey on my back. :-) BOT, just what advocacy work is there for a Unix-familiar non-user to do? -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 25 10:14:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D7614D46 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:14:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA33668 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:14:32 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:14:32 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Something real for once... Message-ID: <19990225201432.B91815@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, Well, I decided to do my little bit for FreeBSD advocacy... My favourite X screen saver is the maze saver, which has a little logo in the maze. I thought it would be nice to have a FreeBSD logo, so I looked around a bit, hacked a bit, painted a bit, and came up with the attached patch. Place it in /usr/ports/x11/xscreensaver/patches/patch-ac, etc, etc... Then take a look at the maze saver. You'll be better off leaving the maze size as random, unless to have a size which is a factor of 90. Anyway, I hope this amuses someone, and even proves useful to entertain the WC staff at a FreeBSD booth, while all the people are over looking at Linux :) Enjoy, -Jeremy PS - I know it's a binary on the list... but it's shorter than most of the recent flames... -- | ------------------------------------------------------ --+-- "Maybe tomorrow will be better than today, | or maybe it will not come at all..." - Pam Thum | ------------------------------------------------------ --JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8 Content-Type: application/x-gunzip Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="maze.diff.gz" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sIAEKO1TYAA+xabUMaS7L+rL+iiS+BNLQwygC+rSMS4xrzYnIST3I9HJQBRxEMAwox+tu3 qqu6Z0CNmrt7s+eepFdmpqa6urvq6aeq52wmkxFHtcOTcO609tVXh6rTDZoT7/u+eO4fiJwr srnFhdLiQkHkSqXSpJRyRH3i/VFfazp5UFh0iovZedJcWxOZYjadmxeSLmtrk2IqaB+2+nVf PAkPu77fRlPq6En8hd+thb6WTWam6n4jaPtib/f1ZmV3MjMpwl6tFxyKoN0TYad17lfrfqs2 TIuzrl8dFXTCXlyyBPaiUcRy2KsHHXW0OiLcy+Xm9lrBwa3yfi9o4Qs59mJwdqrF2KPRhhmL 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From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 25 10:27:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C9814D9C for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:27:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id KAA16470; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id KAA22246; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:26:07 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id LAA26070; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:26:03 -0700 Message-ID: <36D595B6.58B088AE@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:25:58 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: D Pilgrim Cc: Don Wilde , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Focus on the solution References: <65799.919817399@zippy.cdrom.com> <36D4C77E.66EADFB9@uswest.net> <36D57D53.3E111DFD@thuntek.net> <36D5742E.83DD4CA8@uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG D Pilgrim wrote: > > On Feb 25, 1999 @ around 4:42 GMT, "Don Wilde" wrote: > > Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > >> I don't have FreeBSD installed yet (not enough disk space and I > >> need Windows), but I'll help out any way I can. > >> > >Buy another disk and dual-boot? Warning, this stuff is addictive!!! ;-D > > That's what I plan on doing, but my supplies of couch-change and > magic beans have long since dried up and all my disposable income Chuck those MS apps you never use and a couple of games, and use FIPS to shrink that Winblows partition down to a reasonable size. It won't seem like a sacrifice after a week, trust me. > is going into paying down the loan I took out to build myself a new > computer and to feed the US$60/month Internet monkey on my back. :-) $60/month from uswest.net? Hey, you have a DSL line, don't you!?!? Stop yer snivelling, you spoiled wretch! ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 25 11:35:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7512914DA3 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA08118; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:35:04 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990225121839.00c55100@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:35:00 -0700 To: advocacy@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Sm@rt Reseller review features many Linuxes, no FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At http://www.zdnet.com/sr/stories/infopack/0,5483,387506,00.html Sm@rt Reseller states that Linux is "the best Windows file server" and "the Web server's choice." (See the links in the sidbar.) It ignores the existence of FreeBSD altogether. I feel that it also gives the impression of "cheerleading" for Linux rather than considering all of the alternatives to NT in a thoughtful manner. I think that this warrants some tactful advocacy. It makes sense to respond to the authors of this article by pointing out that FreeBSD is better at both functions, and that sites such as CDROM.COM and Yahoo have chosen it over Linux for their production servers. It may pay to mention that FreeBSD doesn't share some of the problems of the Linux distributions they tested -- including ones they rated highly. The article says, "In our tests, we found, for example, that OpenLinux couldn't find our Intel EtherExpress Pro/100B network interface card and none of the three could locate our EtherExpress Pro/10+ cards." FreeBSD's driver for the EtherExpress Pro/100 series is about the best there is anywhere; it's what CDROM.COM's FTP server uses to set records. It's also worth pointing them to commercial support options for FreeBSD, which can be found at http://www.freebsdmall.com/ Finally, it's worth pointing out that resellers can provide unique customization for FreeBSD without releasing the source code that provides value added. This cannot be done with Linux. For all of these reasons, it's important to advocate FreeBSD via the "Talkback" at the bottom of the article and directly, via e-mail, to all of Sm@rt Reseller's editors. If you're a reseller, your opinion will probably be given greater consideration. [Disclaimer: Until January, I wrote a Q&A column for Sm@rt Reseller. However, I was never on staff and don't have any more influence on editorial policy than any reader.] --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 25 13:43: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from bbcc.ctc.edu (bbcc.ctc.edu [134.39.180.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CAD14C8B for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:43:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bbcc.ctc.edu) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bbcc.ctc.edu (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA01861; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:35:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 13:35:48 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Don Wilde Cc: Darren Pilgrim , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Focus on the solution In-Reply-To: <36D57D53.3E111DFD@thuntek.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On Feb 24, 1999 @ around 12:50am GMT "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > Almost every time I see any amount of energy collecting in this > > > group, it seems that somebody shorts it to ground by starting the > > > "Why is Linux doing this and us not?!" argument all over again. > > > It's not focusing on the solution, it's focusing on the problem. > > > > Perhaps it's time to formally organize a task force of sorts to do > > nothing but work on the solution, using the problem as a reference > > point. Or am I just reiterating an old idea? > > > Hi, Darren - > This IS our task force, this list. Sometimes we don't all go in the We'll lets get some stuff done. I have been working actively with my gateway rep to get them to certify their equipment for FreeBSD. He is going to send an E-5200 to the "FreeBSD Test Labs" for certification real soon. If this goes well, I will be able to talk them into sending a 4 processor server to FreeBSD for certification. (And driver writing). However, it takes a little more than just me. I need a some support from this list. Currently, becuase of microsofts strangle hold on contracts, gateway can't ship a "Desktop" computer without a Microsoft OS on it. However, for a small fee, they can use their "Gateway Customization team" and create you a specific "disk image" with FreeBSD on it. The good news is that the Servers aren't required to have an MS OS on them. However, FreeBSD doesn't currently run on their big servers. The plan: Advertise that Gateway is seeking FreeBSD Certification. Advertise that Gateway is entertaining the idea of shipping FreeBSD. Create enough demand that the big wigs notice. Let gateway know we are using FreeBSD with Gateway. My contact is Fritz Fitzgibbons He is collecting all e-mail regarding FreeBSD with Gateway and forwarding them on. So, what can you do? If you use FreeBSD with a gateway computer, write down the model and configuration and e-mail to fitzgfri@gateway.com. Tell him that you are currently using FreeBSD with Gateway and would like to see it become a standard option. or if you are looking to purchase a computer for FreeBSD and wouldn't mind buying gateway, call Fritz and tell him Chris Coleman sent you and you would like to buy a FreeBSD certified Computer. or just e-mail Fritz and ask him which computers are "FreeBSD Certified" and tell them that you would like to see "FreeBSD certified" on their web sites next to the computers that are. -Chris Coleman. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Feb 25 14:13:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBBCD14E1E for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id OAA19240; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id OAA00060; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:12:19 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id PAA23171; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:12:15 -0700 Message-ID: <36D5CABA.56D01C13@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:12:10 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman , Fritz Fitzgibbons Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Focus on the solution References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mr. Fitzgibbons, In a recent email conversation with Chris Coleman, he mentioned that you are coordinating the efforts to certify Gateway equipment with the FreeBSD operating system, or vice versa. In the portion of the conversation included below, Chris mentioned that you might want to hear about current Gateway machines running FreeBSD: Chris Coleman wrote: > > The plan: > Advertise that Gateway is seeking FreeBSD Certification. > Advertise that Gateway is entertaining the idea of shipping FreeBSD. > Create enough demand that the big wigs notice. > Let gateway know we are using FreeBSD with Gateway. > > My contact is Fritz Fitzgibbons He is collecting > all e-mail regarding FreeBSD with Gateway and forwarding them on. > > So, what can you do? > > If you use FreeBSD with a gateway computer, write down the model and > configuration and e-mail to fitzgfri@gateway.com. Tell him that you are > currently using FreeBSD with Gateway and would like to see it become > a standard option. I have such a machine; I've even written an article about it in the Jan issue of Daemon News, an ezine that covers the BSD operating systems. Please read this column, A Remote Chance, if you wish: http://www.daemonnews.org/199901/freeras.html This machine covered in the article is a Gateway G6-200, with all original equipment except the hard disk, which was replaced due to failure midway through my adventure configuring the machine. It has been very reliable; we have had no problems with it at all. It is currently configured with 64MB EDO RAM, Adaptec 2940UW SCSI controller, a VGA card, all stock from Gateway. To this I have added an IBM 4.3GB UW SCSI drive to replace the original Seagate, a Boca 2-port serial card with 16650 UARTs, two USRobotics Sportster 33.6K modems on the stock serial ports, and two 3Com Impact IQ ISDN TAs on the Boca serial ports. Other than hardware upgrades, the machine has been up and running continuously, 24x7, since late October, and we have had no problems with it at all. It serves as a dial-up server for up to 4 remote users, a disk server via NFS and Samba, and a print server via lpd and Samba. Given my experience with this machine, I would recommend such a Gateway system again with no qualms. I have also in the past configured a pair of Gateway Solo notebooks as portable software development machines for a previous employer, running FreeBSD. Both machines performed well, though one had a small problem with the mousepad -- if you rested your hands on the hand rests or mousepad during boot, the mousepad would not be recognized. Booting hands off was always successful, so we simply place a warning sign on the machine. Both laptops were quiet, reliable, and nearly as fast as our HP workstations for development work. They were quite popular with engineers on the road, as they weighed a LOT less than a desktop workstation with a 21" monitor. ;^) Thank you for considering FreeBSD. We have a good, fast, reliable system here, and feel you will serve your customers well to offer FreeBSD as an option on your servers, desktops, and laptops. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Feb 26 2:31: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from liffey.co-operation-ireland.ie (d1-ppp-154.connect.ie [194.106.128.154]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD3114C2F for ; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 02:30:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie) Received: from it1 (it1 [199.107.2.129]) by liffey.co-operation-ireland.ie (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29886; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:28:30 GMT (envelope-from relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990226101617.007e6da0@199.107.2.1> X-Sender: relyod@199.107.2.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 10:16:17 +0000 To: fitzgfri@gateway.com From: Michael Doyle Subject: FreeBSD on Gateway PC Servers Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Fritz, This email came to me via the FreeBSD Advocacy news group. I am the Network Administrator for Co-operation Ireland - an Irish charity that Gateway donated US$50,000 worth of equipment to in September 1998 One of the peoces of equipment is a server that I am using to run our email system and intranet on. The machine in question is running FreeBSD 2.2.7 (straight out of the box, and the CD-ROM distrubution of FreeBSD - no further kernel upgrades were needed) The server is an NS-7000. Our desktop PCs are predominantly Gateway PCs as well, of various vintages, running Win95/Win98 and they all communicate with the server without any problems. :-) >We'll lets get some stuff done. I have been working actively with my >gateway rep to get them to certify their equipment for FreeBSD. He is >going to send an E-5200 to the "FreeBSD Test Labs" for certification real >soon. > >The good news is that the Servers aren't required to have an MS OS on >them. However, FreeBSD doesn't currently run on their big servers. > >The plan: > Advertise that Gateway is seeking FreeBSD Certification. > Advertise that Gateway is entertaining the idea of shipping FreeBSD. > Create enough demand that the big wigs notice. > Let gateway know we are using FreeBSD with Gateway. > >My contact is Fritz Fitzgibbons He is collecting >all e-mail regarding FreeBSD with Gateway and forwarding them on. > >So, what can you do? > > If you use FreeBSD with a gateway computer, write down the model and >configuration and e-mail to fitzgfri@gateway.com. Tell him that you are >currently using FreeBSD with Gateway and would like to see it become >a standard option. <>< ============================================================ ><> Michael Doyle email: relyod@co-operation-ireland.ie Network Administrator personal email: relyod@indigo.ie Co-operation Ireland http://www.co-operation-ireland.ie/ Phone: +353-1-661 0588 Fax: +353-1-661 8456 ********************************************************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 13:36:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549CA1504A for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:36:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id WAA09810 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:36:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by paula.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.8.8) id WAA02765; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:11:56 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19990227221156.40094@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:11:56 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: donating money to the FreeBSD project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Donating money to the FreeBSD project, from a secure web page: http://www.freebsdmall.com/donate/ -- Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 14:29: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB2915186 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:28:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18942; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:28:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: donating money to the FreeBSD project In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:11:56 +0100." <19990227221156.40094@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:28:12 -0800 Message-ID: <18938.920154492@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please ignore the comment about donations being tax deductable, however, since FreeBSD is not a 501(c)3 charity (yet). I've already asked the webmaster to correct that unless he knows something about Walnut Creek CDROM's role in this (making it a tax deduction) that I don't. There are advantages to *not* being such an organization for certain companies who have to deal with 501(c)3 organizations entirely differently and can't just "send a check" as easily as some companies have already sent checks to FreeBSD, Inc. There are also individuals for whom a true charity is an advantage - it's not just a simple matter of one corporate organizational scheme or the other being superior. Running a legal charity is also more work here in the U.S., at least, since there's greater legal expense at tax time in getting all the forms properly filled in. Without expert help at this, you'll quickly lose your 501(c)3 status and have to go apply for it all over again, which is Not Fun, so it costs you more to keep all the i's dotted and t's crossed. We've never really collected all that much in donations on a yearly basis so it wasn't an attractive scenario to imagine accounting fees eating up a substantial portion of the donations. If donations continue to climb at their current rate, however, then it may soon be quite practical to go through all the paperwork of creating a registered charity as well as the existing corporation. I'm not sure how the cross-flow of cash would work since I'm not an accountant, but I'm sure it could be worked out in such a way that companies who needed to deal with other companies could continue to work with FreeBSD, Inc. and individuals could deal directly with the charity. It would all go towards the same basic causes anyway (promotional expenses, hardware, custom software) in the end. Anyway, just an idea. For all I know, the above scheme is also blatantly illegal. I have to ask the accountant. :) - Jordan > Donating money to the FreeBSD project, > from a secure web page: > > http://www.freebsdmall.com/donate/ > > -- > Wolfram Schneider http://wolfram.schneider.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 16: 4:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-004.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF2B15156 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:04:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stephane@wanadoo.fr) Received: from tntdij10-112.abo.wanadoo.fr [164.138.144.112] by wanadoo.fr for Paris Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:01:03 +0100 (MET) Received: (from stephane@localhost) by sequoia.mondomaineamoi.megalo (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA08863; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:40:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stephane) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:40:22 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199902272340.AAA08863@sequoia.mondomaineamoi.megalo> From: Stephane Legrand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: donating money to the FreeBSD project In-Reply-To: <19990227221156.40094@panke.de.freebsd.org> References: <19990227221156.40094@panke.de.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Wolfram Schneider writes: > Donating money to the FreeBSD project, > from a secure web page: > > http://www.freebsdmall.com/donate/ > Hurrah !! Thank you very much. Is there any plan to keep inform the FreeBSD community of the sum of donations and of how they are used ? Stephane Legrand. -- Stephane.Legrand@wanadoo.fr | FreeBSD Francophone http://perso.wanadoo.fr/stephane.legrand/ | http://www.freebsd-fr.org/ "Laissez les developpeurs developpes et les octets seront bien gardes" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 16:30:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F46C15033 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:30:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19493; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:30:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Stephane Legrand Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: donating money to the FreeBSD project In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:40:22 +0100." <199902272340.AAA08863@sequoia.mondomaineamoi.megalo> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:30:14 -0800 Message-ID: <19489.920161814@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Is there any plan to keep inform the FreeBSD community of the sum of > donations and of how they are used ? As long as you don't make me itemize the receipts for every ethernet cable purchased, I wouldn't object to putting some summary information up. The bulk of what's donated still goes into "lots and lots of small bits", e.g. ethernet cards, CDR drives, quickcams, sound cards, etc. and it's difficult to itemize. We basically just buy whatever PC bits various motivated developers ask for, within reason, and ship it off. What's not spent on that goes to pay for things like artwork or occasional bits of custom programming (still looking for someone willing (and capable) to take on the egcs compiler upgrade, BTW :) or just sits in the bank waiting for an appropriate use to come along. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 17: 4:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from postman.bayarea.net (postman.bayarea.net [205.219.84.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9CF14EAA for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:04:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dave@Yost.com) Received: from [205.219.69.138] (205-219-69-138.bayarea.net [205.219.69.138]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06868 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:04:06 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Sender: dayost@mail.bayarea.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4966.919983496@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 16:56:06 -0800 To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Dave Yost Subject: The Linux PR firestorm disaster (w.r.t. FreeBSD) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG =46orgive me if this has been endlessly hashed and rehashed here. I've just= joined the mailing list. Some young lone wolf in Finland writes a barebones unix kernel called linux,= and it captures the imagination of the world. Later, the press latches on= to linux as THE alternative to Windows and NT and creates a firestorm. = Every time they do a report on linux, they neglect even to mention FreeBSD. This is a disaster, and it must be attacked with full force as soon as= possible or FreeBSD will become hopelessly marginalized. =46irst order of business, I think is that http://www.freebsd.org/ must have= a prominent main heading: FreeBSD vs. linux and others which leads to some simple, forthright information suitable for nontechnical= journalists and TV news people. It should also have a big, forbidding= table with lots of X marks for stuff FreeBSD has that linux doesn't and as= much technical backup material as possible. Once that foundation is in place, the work can really begin. Second order of business, I think, is to make as much of a P.R. splash as= possible that FreeBSD is looking for a new, flashy name so it can better= compete for mindshare with linux. A write-in campaign to the press on this= matter would be great. The end result of this may in fact be to stick with= the name, but the PR attention will be good. Third order of business Get FreeBSD visible in stores. Fry's _doesn't= carry it!__ We will all have to work to force it to begin flowing through= the retail store channels. This will have a major impact. Pester every= store that carries the Linux box to get them to carry the FreeBSD box, and= BUY IT THERE, not on the web or on the 800 number. Walnut Creek:= discourage phone orders in favor of store purchase, and explain why you're= doing it. There is a lot more that can be done, but these three are the high-order= bits in my mind. I suggest that there should be a public advocacy newsgroup: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.advocacy which should be put in process at once. In the meantime, someone can create alt.comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.advocacy immediately so work can begin. Thanks Dave Yost To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 17:19:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 16DC115180 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 2941 invoked by alias); 28 Feb 1999 01:19:02 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 2914 invoked by uid 0); 28 Feb 1999 01:19:01 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 1999 01:19:01 -0000 Message-ID: <36D89983.8B95EA8E@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:18:59 -0800 From: D Pilgrim Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Stephane Legrand , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: donating money to the FreeBSD project References: <19489.920161814@zippy.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > Is there any plan to keep inform the FreeBSD community of the sum of > > donations and of how they are used ? > > As long as you don't make me itemize the receipts for every ethernet > cable purchased, I wouldn't object to putting some summary information > up. Would a list of which projects/people are getting how much be a posibility? You could always have the recipients keep their own itemized lists. As for the logistics of full-itemization, bookkeeping software makes it very easy (my folks are accountants). -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 18:46:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (srv1.thuntek.net [206.206.98.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3FF1518A for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:46:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from thuntek.net (abq-100.thuntek.net [207.66.52.100]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.9.1/8.6.12TNT1.0) with ESMTP id TAA21472; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:46:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36D8BBA8.D2CE3D40@thuntek.net> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:44:40 -0800 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Yost Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Linux PR firestorm disaster (w.r.t. FreeBSD) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dave Yost wrote: > > Forgive me if this has been endlessly hashed and rehashed here. I've just joined the mailing list. > It has :-D [snip] > First order of business, I think is that http://www.freebsd.org/ must have a prominent main heading: > FreeBSD vs. linux and others > which leads to some simple, forthright information suitable for nontechnical journalists and TV news people. It should also have a big, forbidding table with lots of X marks for stuff FreeBSD has that linux doesn't and as much technical backup material as possible. > This is a good idea, although not as the _main_ heading. Expand to include Solaris, NT, W98, etc. > Once that foundation is in place, the work can really begin. > > Second order of business, I think, is to make as much of a P.R. splash as possible that FreeBSD is looking for a new, flashy name so it can better compete for mindshare with linux. A write-in campaign to the press on this matter would be great. The end result of this may in fact be to stick with the name, but the PR attention will be good. > This has been hashed ad infinitum. FreeBSD it stays. If you want to change the name you can always cut your own CD's, tnx to BSD license. > Third order of business Get FreeBSD visible in stores. Fry's _doesn't carry it!__ We will all have to work to force it to begin flowing through the retail store channels. This will have a major impact. Pester every store that carries the Linux box to get them to carry the FreeBSD box, and BUY IT THERE, not on the web or on the 800 number. Walnut Creek: discourage phone orders in favor of store purchase, and explain why you're doing it > Jordan is 'in progress' on this @ WC-CDROM. > There is a lot more that can be done, but these three are the high-order bits in my mind. > Keep suggesting... :-) > > Thanks Thank you, Dave. Welcome to the BSD community, as Kirk McKusick says. > > Dave Yost > -- oooOOO O O O o * * * * * * o ___ _________ _________ _________ ___==__ V_=_=_DW ===--- Don Wilde dwilde1@thuntek.net [ = = ] /oo0000oo-oo--oo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-ooo---ooo-oo---oo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 21:12:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from postman.bayarea.net (postman.bayarea.net [205.219.84.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E31A1500E for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:12:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dave@Yost.com) Received: from [205.219.69.138] (205-219-69-138.bayarea.net [205.219.69.138]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22054; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:12:05 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Sender: dayost@mail.bayarea.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D8BBA8.D2CE3D40@thuntek.net> References: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:10:33 -0800 To: Don Wilde From: Dave Yost Subject: Re: The Linux PR firestorm disaster (w.r.t. FreeBSD) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:44 PM -0800 1999-02-27, Don Wilde wrote: > Dave Yost wrote: >> >> Forgive me if this has been endlessly hashed and rehashed here. I've= just joined the mailing list. >> >=20 > It has :-D >=20 > [snip] >=20 >> First order of business, I think is that http://www.freebsd.org/ must= have a prominent main heading: >> FreeBSD vs. linux and others >> which leads to some simple, forthright information suitable for= nontechnical journalists and TV news people. It should also have a big,= forbidding table with lots of X marks for stuff FreeBSD has that linux= doesn't and as much technical backup material as possible. >> > This is a good idea, although not as the _main_ heading. Expand to > include Solaris, NT, W98, etc. Not _the_ main heading. _A_ main heading. Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 21:12:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from postman.bayarea.net (postman.bayarea.net [205.219.84.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF9D14A09 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:12:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dave@Yost.com) Received: from [205.219.69.138] (205-219-69-138.bayarea.net [205.219.69.138]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22064; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:12:13 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Sender: dayost@mail.bayarea.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D8BBA8.D2CE3D40@thuntek.net> References: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:11:29 -0800 To: Don Wilde From: Dave Yost Subject: Re: The Linux PR firestorm disaster (w.r.t. FreeBSD) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:44 PM -0800 1999-02-27, Don Wilde wrote: > Dave Yost wrote: >> Second order of business, I think, is to make as much of a P.R. splash as= possible that FreeBSD is looking for a new, flashy name so it can better= compete for mindshare with linux. A write-in campaign to the press on this= matter would be great. The end result of this may in fact be to stick with= the name, but the PR attention will be good. >> > This has been hashed ad infinitum. FreeBSD it stays. If you want to > change the name you can always cut your own CD's, tnx to BSD license. But it has not been done under the spotlight of publicity, right? Big diffe= rence. Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 21:13:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from postman.bayarea.net (postman.bayarea.net [205.219.84.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B2C1509D for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:13:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Dave@Yost.com) Received: from [205.219.69.138] (205-219-69-138.bayarea.net [205.219.69.138]) by postman.bayarea.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA22127; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:13:11 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: dayost@mail.bayarea.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D8BBA8.D2CE3D40@thuntek.net> References: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:12:56 -0800 To: Don Wilde From: Dave Yost Subject: Re: The Linux PR firestorm disaster (w.r.t. FreeBSD) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 7:44 PM -0800 1999-02-27, Don Wilde wrote: > Thank you, Dave. Welcome to the BSD community, as Kirk McKusick says. Thanks. BTW, you mean "back to". It's been years... Dave To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Feb 27 22:13:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (dyn1-tnt6-25.chicago.il.ameritech.net [199.179.167.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116131509D for ; Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:13:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@stox.sa.enteract.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.stox.sa.enteract.com [127.0.0.1]) by m4.stox.sa.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA66182 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:13:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:13:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Kenneth P. Stox" Reply-To: stox@enteract.com To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Linux PR firestorm disaster (w.r.t. FreeBSD) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK folks, let me make this clear, GET A CLUE!! The endless bickering between a minority of the Linux and FreeBSD communities is completely counter-productive. Positioning FreeBSD against Linux is about as useful as getting a job for the Microsoft PR department as far as getting the real goals achieved. 1) FreeBSD developments have helped the Linux community. 2) Linux developments have helped the FreeBSD community. 3) FSF developments have helped both communities. Let's keep it that way, and work off each other's strengths, instead of picking apart each other's weaknesses. We should be making allies of the Linux community and encourage them to make allies of us. FreeBSD and Linux can complement each other. We should be working to that end. Just a silly thought to put into you heads, have you ever thought that just maybe, the instigators of many of these arguments in public forums just might be professional Microsoft evangelists ? We might be playing right into their hands. Does the idea of "Divide and conquer" come to mind? And now back to our regularly scheduled program, "The Golden Age of Ballooning." -Ken Stox stox@fnal.gov stox@imagescape.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message