From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 1:38:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C4871525B; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:38:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12534; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:39:25 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:39:25 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: "Chris G. Demetriou" Cc: Jason Thorpe , Wilko Bulte , gallatin@cs.duke.edu, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISP firmware compiled in as a default.... In-Reply-To: <8766yeasvh.fsf@redmail.netbsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Matthew Jacob writes: > > Nope, I don't think so. I pretty much always had been downloading f/w. > > False. see NetBSD sys/dev/ic/isp.c: > > revision 1.18 > date: 1998/01/28 19:09:24; author: mjacob; state: Exp; lines: +9 -5 > Fix for port-alpha/4903- always download f/w unless config flags say > no or we have no firmware to download. > > and/or: > > http://www.NetBSD.org/cgi-bin/query-pr-single.pl?number=4903 False. Go to rev 1.1 of isp_pci.c && isp.c && asm_pci.h. F/W download was conditional only there being a fwlen of non-zero. You asked for a config option to turn off f/w downloads. Also, I started trying, at one point, to pay attention to the f/w revisions in currently running (i.e., loaded by SRM) f/w and not loading on top of that. The latter turned out to be a lose because the version numbers vary depending on what feature sets you have. It's also not clear where Digital's f/w (which they probably do themselves) fits in. > > > > There was a hop skip and dance with some f/w and Chris's machine > > [ ... ] > > yeah: before that patch, you _weren't_ always downloading the > firmware, and the DEC ISP firmware didn't work with your isp driver. > 8-) It does a better job now of working with older and different f/w sets. We're talking about two years of fooling around with this now since then, and while I'm kinda stupid, I *do* learn from experience. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 1:38:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0187C15147; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:38:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12541; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:39:50 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:39:50 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Wilko Bulte , gallatin@cs.duke.edu, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISP firmware compiled in as a default.... In-Reply-To: <199912050504.VAA18543@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:47:18 -0800 (PST) > Matthew Jacob wrote: > > > Nope, I don't think so. I pretty much always had been downloading f/w. > > There was a hop skip and dance with some f/w and Chris's machine and some > > stupid ass bugs in 7.55 f/w where you'd tell it to renegotiate and then > > ask it what it had done and it lied and gave back random values. > > Actually, you used to compare "present firmware rev" with "driver firmware > rev" and load the driver firmware if it was "newwer". Version numbering > inconsistencies changed that policy... at least is how I remember it. What I said.... > > > Nope- the netbsd changes list is too hard to read. > > Uh, okay, whatever. > > -- Jason R. Thorpe > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 1:40: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA1E1523D for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 01:38:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id KAA26932; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:24:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA30746; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:40:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199912042340.AAA30746@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19991204173653.A16642@physics.clarku.edu> from Greg Johnson at "Dec 4, 1999 5:36:53 pm" To: gjohnson@physics.clarku.edu (Greg Johnson) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:40:51 +0100 (CET) Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Greg Johnson wrote ... > On Sat, Dec 04, 1999 at 09:56:34AM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > As Andrew Gillham wrote ... > > > For the average Joe, using the ARC/AlphaBIOS menus to setup booting Linux > > > and/or BSD, etc isn't so bad. Also, the ARC console can boot from some > > > NCR controllers that the SRM can't, etc. Hmm, I wonder if the ARC firmware > > > > Most/some ARC's (??) can also handle an Adaptec 2940[UW] card. > > > > > supports additional video cards also? > > > > On some machines yes. For example my Miata accepts video cards while in > > ARC that it does not (unless you pci_device_override) in SRM. Which makes > > me wonder why the Pyxis bug is not relevant to NT BTW. > > What's the Pyxis bug? Rather than repeating Jason Thorpe here I suggest you check the mailing list archive. Jason posted it on Nov 20, 1999 Thanks, -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD - |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 8: 7:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925EF14D7F for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:07:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15009; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:15:11 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:15:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: Lord Isildur , Matthew Jacob , alpha@freebsd.org, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <14408.29267.776501.133049@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Lord Isildur writes: > > > > I consider SRM to be the way to go, and i think instead the convoluted > > hacks that things like MILO had to go through are the rsult of using the > > ARC/ALphaBIOS _instead_ of using SRM. Now that Compaq has released SRMs > > for so many more models and eliminated the need to buy the developer kit, > > i see no reason to consider ARC anymore _at all_. It was a cheap second > > The only problem with this argument is there are a few machines that > nobody ever made SRM for. Like the XL266 and the 300XL. They don't > trouble us because we don't have them. But we don't have them because > they don't run BSD. > > And then there is the new UP1000 board which claims to have AlphaBios > only & to support linux. > (http://www.alpha-processor.com/products/up1000-board.asp) > I think this might be just paperware, as I cannot find any mention of it > anywhere except at Alpha Processor Inc's site. > > It sure would be nice if they just open-sourced SRM. The UP2000 seems to be very similar to 264DP (?) but UP1000 has a new AMD chipset. I have no documentation for it at all. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 8:22:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F1614D84 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:22:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15030; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:29:21 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:29:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe Cc: tls@rek.tjls.com, port-alpha@netbsd.org, alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199912050405.UAA17602@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 18:46:18 -0500 > Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > > > productive to waste it persuading DEC to release SRM for more platforms, > > or to release the unmodified source code to a _current_ SRM, including > > the PALcode. > > Or, Hell, just the PALcode for the various processor models, and the > documentation necessary to implement console software (i.e. the interrupt > routing goo for the various models that we need console software for). Isn't that just PC164 and similar? The irq masking hardware for that is documented now I think. The only reason there was a special PALcode call for that platform was that the irq mask wasn't readable (reads show current active irqs) and the PALcode needed to know the mask in order to figure out what vector to report. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 8:23: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC38114CB0; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 08:23:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15037; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:30:31 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:30:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Mike Smith , mjacob@feral.com, Andrew Reilly , alpha@freebsd.org, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199912050450.UAA18249@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 17:26:49 -0800 > Mike Smith wrote: > > > If you know something I don't about Alpha Processor Inc's machines, I'd > > love to hear it. They are only shipping AlphaBIOS, since there is MILO > > code for their systems. > > Only their 21164 systems, right? > > Their 21264 (264DP) has an SRM for it! I know there is SRM for 264DP but what about UP2000 and UP1000? I think UP2000 is pretty similar to 264DP hardware-wise. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 9:41:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.33.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECD215399 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:41:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA27182; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:40:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912051740.JAA27182@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Doug Rabson Cc: Andrew Gallatin , Lord Isildur , Matthew Jacob , alpha@freebsd.org, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 09:40:52 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:15:11 +0000 (GMT) Doug Rabson wrote: > The UP2000 seems to be very similar to 264DP (?) but UP1000 has a new AMD > chipset. I have no documentation for it at all. Possibly the same core logic used by the Athlon? -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 9:55:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E92153C8 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:55:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15844; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:02:54 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:02:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Andrew Gallatin , Lord Isildur , Matthew Jacob , alpha@freebsd.org, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199912051740.JAA27182@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:15:11 +0000 (GMT) > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > The UP2000 seems to be very similar to 264DP (?) but UP1000 has a new AMD > > chipset. I have no documentation for it at all. > > Possibly the same core logic used by the Athlon? It seems quite likely. I didn't get too close a look when I visited the API stand at Siggraph this year but its definately an AMD chip of some kind. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 9:55:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from herring.nlsystems.com (nlsys.demon.co.uk [158.152.125.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43945153E5 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 09:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15844; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:02:54 GMT (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:02:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Andrew Gallatin , Lord Isildur , Matthew Jacob , alpha@freebsd.org, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199912051740.JAA27182@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:15:11 +0000 (GMT) > Doug Rabson wrote: > > > The UP2000 seems to be very similar to 264DP (?) but UP1000 has a new AMD > > chipset. I have no documentation for it at all. > > Possibly the same core logic used by the Athlon? It seems quite likely. I didn't get too close a look when I visited the API stand at Siggraph this year but its definately an AMD chip of some kind. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 181 442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 10:17:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles543.castles.com [208.214.165.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9BC153C8 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:17:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08217; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:19:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912051819.KAA08217@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: mjacob@feral.com Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Dec 1999 17:29:35 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 10:19:20 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > The SRM vs. AlphaBios/ARC issues are a phantom. *BSD has a long way to go > > > to fully support the SRM capapble machines before worrying about platforms > > > which don't have SRM. This is a sideshow. I would have said it was more > > > critical if Tru64 died, but much to &my& surprise it was NT-Alpha that > > > walked the plank, not DUh (now Tru64). Given that Tru64 is very > > > successfully selling on the leading new Dompaq platforms (and depends on > > > SRM), I rather doubt *BSD will get all that left behind because we've not > > > gotten ARC/AlphaBios yet. > > > > If you know something I don't about Alpha Processor Inc's machines, I'd > > love to hear it. They are only shipping AlphaBIOS, since there is MILO > > code for their systems. > > Nope, but I can't speak for their choices or business model. Do they have > a machine that is an absolute *must have* for *BSD? The UP1000 and UP2000 motherboards are single and dual EV6 Tsunami boards. They're what you'll find in almost all of the non-Compaq-labelled sysems, since API are the only Alpha bare board supplier in the marketplace. I would consider both of these boards "must haves" at some stage, yes, or we will end up in the situation where we only run on a subset of the Compaq-branded Alpha systems, and none of the clones. IMO, that'd be bad. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 10:19: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1325B153C8; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13984; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:20:17 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:20:17 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Mike Smith Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199912051819.KAA08217@mass.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I would consider both of these boards "must haves" at some stage, yes, or > we will end up in the situation where we only run on a subset of the > Compaq-branded Alpha systems, and none of the clones. IMO, that'd be bad. Well, let's agree to disagree then. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 10:21:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles543.castles.com [208.214.165.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B97A1541B; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:21:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08246; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:22:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912051822.KAA08246@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Tom Haapanen Cc: "'Mike Smith'" , mjacob@feral.com, alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Dec 1999 20:49:02 EST." <31FF76BDFCB5D211A3270000C0F2F7BF54D7D2@syncro.metrics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 10:22:39 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > If you know something I don't about Alpha Processor Inc's machines, I'd > > love to hear it. They are only shipping AlphaBIOS, since there is MILO > > code for their systems. > > With the death of NT on Alpha, that also makes their boxes Linux only, > right? With SRM, they would be able to support not only *BSD, but also > Tru64. It doesn't look like they're terribly interested in that at the moment, but our relationship isn't yet far enough along to tell one way or another. > Does API listen to requests? Is there hope of convincing them to provide > SRM support? They would have to pay Compaq to develop and license it, which they may not like very much. We'll be exploring the options here as we get to know the API guys better; right now we're just getting communications established. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 10:35: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C92DB14BD0; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:35:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14034; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:36:13 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:36:13 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wilko Bulte Cc: gallatin@cs.duke.edu, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISP firmware compiled in as a default.... In-Reply-To: <199912042142.WAA88557@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (late followup)> > > However, I had a bit of a hard time with the SRM loaded f/w (and this is > > the latest) when I had both an internal drive and 2 external tape drives. > > This problem went away when I went back to compiling in the f/w which then > > downloaded. > > Did you have both internal AND external devices on the same KZPBA card? > FYI: we (== Compaq) don't support this. Obviously this decision is based > on the f/w that is in the SRM code. Tests have shown it really does not > work well when both internal and external devices are present on the same > card. YMMV of course and I obviously don't know what was biting you. Wasn't a standard KZPBA, but that's not the high order bit. If the f/w figures out there's something on both internal and external connectors, it's supposed to drop the pullups. That's why the 7.65 f/w is a lot better than the 5.XXX f/w- in this case. >,,, > > So, I'm in a bit of a quandary now as to what the right thing to do is. > > Don't shoot me: the right thing to do is to make it possible to boot ... I won't shoot you, but it doesn't help me answer the question of 'should f/w be compiled in by default'. I suppose Mike answered it best about checking sizes. >... > Hm. The DEC-sanctioned cards (as far as SRM booting goes, so for > system disks) only use 1040's if I'm not mistaken. So this might be the > most practical short-term solution. How much would 1040-only f/w > add to the installation kernel ? Actually, the latest 4100 f/w (at least the one I installed at NASA/Ames) recognizes the 2100, but won't boot from it. Nyah, Nyah! PTI PCI-470 and Anatres Qlogic 2100 clones have fcode in them and you can boot from them on sparc! -matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 10:38: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F4A14BD0; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:38:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14053; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:39:21 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:39:21 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Wilko Bulte Cc: gallatin@cs.duke.edu, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ISP firmware compiled in as a default.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >... > > Hm. The DEC-sanctioned cards (as far as SRM booting goes, so for > > system disks) only use 1040's if I'm not mistaken. So this might be the > > most practical short-term solution. How much would 1040-only f/w > > add to the installation kernel ? > > Actually, the latest 4100 f/w (at least the one I installed at NASA/Ames) > recognizes the 2100, but won't boot from it. Nyah, Nyah! PTI PCI-470 > and Anatres Qlogic 2100 clones have fcode in them and you can boot from > them on sparc! And that should have been 'Antares'. And, of course, BIOS booting works for these cards too (via WWN). *Groan*- don't tell me that this would be an argument for support ARC.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 11:56:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from chuggalug.clues.com (chuggalug.clues.com [194.217.82.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23D41542B for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 11:56:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from geoffb@chuggalug.clues.com) Received: (from geoffb@localhost) by chuggalug.clues.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA44888 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:56:48 GMT (envelope-from geoffb) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:56:43 +0000 From: Geoff Buckingham To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: 64bitPCI Message-ID: <19991205195643.A43682@chuggalug.clues.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am building test platforms for an application with very great disk and Network IO requirements. Which of the FreeBSD supported alphas have a 64bit PCI bus ? Is anybody using 64bit isp, gigabit cards or vinum succesfully with FreeBSD alpha? Is an alpha likely to outperform a modern x86 system IO wise? Thanks in advance. -- GeoffB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 12: 7:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783FC15415 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:07:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15132; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA81640; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:07:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:07:15 -0500 (EST) To: Geoff Buckingham Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64bitPCI In-Reply-To: <19991205195643.A43682@chuggalug.clues.com> References: <19991205195643.A43682@chuggalug.clues.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14410.50100.810277.209073@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Geoff Buckingham writes: > > I am building test platforms for an application with very great disk and > Network IO requirements. Which of the FreeBSD supported alphas have a > 64bit PCI bus ? > > Is anybody using 64bit isp, gigabit cards or vinum succesfully with > FreeBSD alpha? > > Is an alpha likely to outperform a modern x86 system IO wise? Yes. You want something based on the tsunami chipset found in the AlphaServer DS10 & DS20, Workstation XP1000 and DP264 boards. The DS20, DP264 and XP1000 have two independant PCI buses. The DEC terminology for this is "hose". The DS10 has a single hose with 3 64-bit slots & 2 32-bit slots. This costs < 1/2 as much as the xp1000, but also has good I/O bandwidth. I have not done more than verify that it can DMA to/from a single 64-bit slot in excess of 200MB/sec in both directions. The xp1000 has 2 64 bit slots (both on the same hose) and 3 32-bit slots (2 of which are on the secondary hose). This machine can DMA in excess of 200MB/sec. We have run TCP/IP between 2 xp1000s with 64-bit Myrinet cards at 1147Mb/sec. The DS20 & DP264 have even more memory bandwidth than the xp1000. They also have available 64-bit slots on both hoses. They are a little more costly though. I have never actually played with one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 12:45:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D6E15452 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:45:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root@d60-025.leach.ucdavis.edu [169.237.60.25]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27351; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:45:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA69403; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:45:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:45:27 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 64bitPCI Message-ID: <19991205124526.I34918@dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <19991205195643.A43682@chuggalug.clues.com> <14410.50100.810277.209073@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <14410.50100.810277.209073@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu>; from gallatin@cs.duke.edu on Sun, Dec 05, 1999 at 03:07:15PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Dec 05, 1999 at 03:07:15PM -0500, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > I am building test platforms for an application with very great disk and > > Network IO requirements. Which of the FreeBSD supported alphas have a > > 64bit PCI bus ? > > Yes. You want something based on the tsunami chipset found in the My PC164SX has two 64-bit PCI slots. How good is the 64-bit implementation on this board? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 13: 6:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C432714E09 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:06:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA16114; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:06:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA81756; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:05:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:05:59 -0500 (EST) To: obrien@NUXI.com Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64bitPCI In-Reply-To: <19991205124526.I34918@dragon.nuxi.com> References: <19991205195643.A43682@chuggalug.clues.com> <14410.50100.810277.209073@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <19991205124526.I34918@dragon.nuxi.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14410.53049.351748.935865@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David O'Brien writes: > On Sun, Dec 05, 1999 at 03:07:15PM -0500, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > > I am building test platforms for an application with very great disk and > > > Network IO requirements. Which of the FreeBSD supported alphas have a > > > 64bit PCI bus ? > > > > Yes. You want something based on the tsunami chipset found in the > > My PC164SX has two 64-bit PCI slots. How good is the 64-bit > implementation on this board? > Not so good. It has the pyxis chipset & doesn't have good memory bandwidth. (as to "good" I'm talking better than 300MB/sec for the xp1000 and better than 500MB/sec for the ds20 using the Hbench bw_mem_cp: $Id: bw_mem_cp.c,v 1.7 1997/06/27 00:33:58 abrown Exp $) I'm not sure what the 164sx's memory bandwidth is, but I suspect that it is < 120MB/sec for the hbench copy test. There are 64-bit DMA benchmarks online at http://www.myri.com:80/scs/PCI64X/performance (Read E2L as DMA-read and L2E as DMA-write.) They are a little out of date & rather misleading, since they do not indicate if the machine can perform like that with any sort of competing memory system load from the CPU. Like copyin/copyout. The reason why I mentioned our 1147Mb/sec TCP/IP number from the XP1000 was that both machines were copying AND DMA'ing at better than 140MB/sec. That was with the normal FreeBSD TCP/IP stack, the only modification being that we were using a 6 line patch to enable hardware checksum offloading on the receiver.. Cheers, Drew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin Duke University Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science Phone: (919) 660-6590 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 13:23:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A0115204 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:23:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14572; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:25:09 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:25:09 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Geoff Buckingham Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64bitPCI In-Reply-To: <19991205195643.A43682@chuggalug.clues.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Geoff Buckingham wrote: > > I am building test platforms for an application with very great disk and > Network IO requirements. Which of the FreeBSD supported alphas have a > 64bit PCI bus ? pc164 for one. Nearly all of the other alpha's *I've* ever seen. Note that all 64 bit pci cards work fine in 32 bit slots. > > Is anybody using 64bit isp, gigabit cards or vinum succesfully with > FreeBSD alpha? ISP yes, Vinum yes. I haven't tried my new Intel Gigabit card in an alpha yet. > Is an alpha likely to outperform a modern x86 system IO wise? [ no numbers to back this- just a feel ] That's a tough question. For some years I would have said yes. Now I'm not so sure. On the larger systems, absolutely. A TurboLaser or a RawHide will blow the doors off anything built with Intel. But for the small to midlevel systems, the processors && memory controllers are probably pretty close, with Intel PCI interfaces probably doing better and alpha processor caches doing better. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 13:36:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from feral.com (feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4174D152A9 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:36:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mjacob@feral.com) Received: from beppo.feral.com (beppo [192.67.166.79]) by feral.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14639; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:37:59 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Jacob Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: obrien@NUXI.com, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64bitPCI In-Reply-To: <14410.53049.351748.935865@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > Network IO requirements. Which of the FreeBSD supported alphas have a > > > > 64bit PCI bus ? > > > > > > Yes. You want something based on the tsunami chipset found in the > > > > My PC164SX has two 64-bit PCI slots. How good is the 64-bit > > implementation on this board? > > > > Not so good. It has the pyxis chipset & doesn't have good memory > bandwidth. (as to "good" I'm talking better than 300MB/sec for the > xp1000 and better than 500MB/sec for the ds20 using the Hbench > bw_mem_cp: $Id: bw_mem_cp.c,v 1.7 1997/06/27 00:33:58 abrown Exp $) > I'm not sure what the 164sx's memory bandwidth is, but I suspect that > it is < 120MB/sec for the hbench copy test. I haven't benchmarked it myself, but I'm told the rawhide is rated to a gigabyte/second across the backplane. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 13:53:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A5915428; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 13:53:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id WAA24738; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:31:23 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA72235; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:59:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199912051859.TAA72235@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: ISP firmware compiled in as a default.... In-Reply-To: from Matthew Jacob at "Dec 5, 1999 10:36:13 am" To: mjacob@feral.com Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 19:59:20 +0100 (CET) Cc: gallatin@cs.duke.edu, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Matthew Jacob wrote ... > > Did you have both internal AND external devices on the same KZPBA card? > > FYI: we (== Compaq) don't support this. Obviously this decision is based > > on the f/w that is in the SRM code. Tests have shown it really does not > > work well when both internal and external devices are present on the same > > card. YMMV of course and I obviously don't know what was biting you. > > Wasn't a standard KZPBA, but that's not the high order bit. If the f/w > figures out there's something on both internal and external connectors, > it's supposed to drop the pullups. That's why the 7.65 f/w is a lot better > than the 5.XXX f/w- in this case. Hm. Well the reasons I heared within Compaq was that they did not like the signal quality on the SCSI bus when both internal and external devices are present. Ultra SCSI speeds obviously make this worse, as do marginal cables etc. > > > So, I'm in a bit of a quandary now as to what the right thing to do is. > > > > Don't shoot me: the right thing to do is to make it possible to boot > > ... I won't shoot you, but it doesn't help me answer the question of > 'should f/w be compiled in by default'. I suppose Mike answered it best > about checking sizes. Clearer answer: my vote is to include the 1040 f/w > > Hm. The DEC-sanctioned cards (as far as SRM booting goes, so for > > system disks) only use 1040's if I'm not mistaken. So this might be the > > most practical short-term solution. How much would 1040-only f/w > > add to the installation kernel ? > > Actually, the latest 4100 f/w (at least the one I installed at NASA/Ames) > recognizes the 2100, but won't boot from it. Nyah, Nyah! PTI PCI-470 Probably SRM is picky somehow. -- | / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - The FreeBSD Project |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 14:38:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74FB14A01; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 14:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id XAA27517; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 23:28:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15055; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 23:27:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199912052227.XAA15055@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: ISP firmware compiled in as a default.... In-Reply-To: <199912050356.TAA17391@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> from Jason Thorpe at "Dec 4, 1999 7:56:44 pm" To: thorpej@nas.nasa.gov Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 23:27:43 +0100 (CET) Cc: mjacob@feral.com, gallatin@cs.duke.edu, freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Jason Thorpe wrote ... > On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:42:57 +0100 (CET) > Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > Don't shoot me: the right thing to do is to make it possible to boot > > FreeBSD/alpha from a CDROM. With or without Qlogic firmware FreeBSD/alpha > > is quickly getting too big to be really practical as far as floppy booting > > goes. NetBSD can do CDROM booting, but I don't really understand the > > issues around CDROM bootability. Having fixed the size problem the extra > > NetBSD can also boot a kernel split across multiple floppies. Our > libsa `ustarfs' is pretty cool: > > nbftp:thorpej 15$ ls -l > total 6256 > 1456 -rw-r--r-- 1 thorpej netbsd 1474560 Dec 4 19:05 disk1of2 > 816 -rw-r--r-- 1 thorpej netbsd 819200 Dec 4 19:05 disk2of2 > > ...that's a NetBSD/alpha install floppy set. Neat. One learns something new everyday :) I had used NetBSD install from a CDR before. -- Wilko Bulte Arnhem, The Netherlands - The FreeBSD Project WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 16:20: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF1F914DAB for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA46576; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ns-sandbox.myable.COM (gateway.myable.com [204.246.214.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF8514D4F for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:11:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doug@ns-sandbox.myable.COM) Received: (from doug@localhost) by ns-sandbox.myable.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17535; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:13:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doug) Message-Id: <199912060013.QAA17535@ns-sandbox.myable.COM> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:13:38 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Soo Reply-To: doug@myable.com To: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@freebsd.org X-Send-Pr-Version: 3.2 Subject: alpha/15289: Testing GNATS Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >Number: 15289 >Category: alpha >Synopsis: Testing GNATS >Confidential: yes >Severity: critical >Priority: low >Responsible: freebsd-alpha >State: open >Quarter: >Keywords: >Date-Required: >Class: doc-bug >Submitter-Id: current-users >Arrival-Date: Sun Dec 5 16:20:00 PST 1999 >Closed-Date: >Last-Modified: >Originator: Doug Soo >Release: FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386 >Organization: myable >Environment: >Description: Testing GNATS >How-To-Repeat: >Fix: >Release-Note: >Audit-Trail: >Unformatted: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 16:23: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles536.castles.com [208.214.165.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3AD814D90 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:23:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09314; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:24:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912060024.QAA09314@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Jason Thorpe Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Dec 1999 20:50:07 PST." <199912050450.UAA18249@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:24:45 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 17:26:49 -0800 > Mike Smith wrote: > > > If you know something I don't about Alpha Processor Inc's machines, I'd > > love to hear it. They are only shipping AlphaBIOS, since there is MILO > > code for their systems. > > Only their 21164 systems, right? > > Their 21264 (264DP) has an SRM for it! As I said, "if you know something I don't". 8) At the time of writing I was under the impression that they'd given up on SRM with the PC164LX boards. I'm extremely happy to have been proven wrong (and I've scribbled a whole pile of stuff off my API to-do list). -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 16:27:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.33.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24281508C; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:27:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA02123; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:27:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912060027.QAA02123@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Mike Smith Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:27:16 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:24:45 -0800 Mike Smith wrote: > > Their 21264 (264DP) has an SRM for it! > > As I said, "if you know something I don't". 8) At the time of writing > I was under the impression that they'd given up on SRM with the PC164LX > boards. I'm extremely happy to have been proven wrong (and I've > scribbled a whole pile of stuff off my API to-do list). Like was said here before, API sent an SRM-loaded DP264 to Ross Harvey for porting NetBSD to it, and there is even a DP264 on the API web site which is claimed to have "Tru64 UNIX available". -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 16:55:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles536.castles.com [208.214.165.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B9D14DCF for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:55:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09469; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:57:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912060057.QAA09469@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Dec 1999 10:19:20 PST." <199912051819.KAA08217@mass.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:57:19 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Nope, but I can't speak for their choices or business model. Do they have > > a machine that is an absolute *must have* for *BSD? > > The UP1000 and UP2000 motherboards are single and dual EV6 Tsunami > boards. Sorry. In light of the accuracy of the information I have to hand from API, that should have been "I'm told that the...". 8( It sounds like the UP1000 may be based on the AMD 751 chipset. I'm not too impressed with these in the K7 application yet (they seem to have overheating problems), so it will be interesting to see how they go with the Alpha. If that's the part they're using, there'll be almost no work involved in making the UP1000 work. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 17:10:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles536.castles.com [208.214.165.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FE514D03 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:10:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09538; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:12:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912060112.RAA09538@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 64bitPCI In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Dec 1999 15:07:15 EST." <14410.50100.810277.209073@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:12:03 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The DS20 & DP264 have even more memory bandwidth than the xp1000. > They also have available 64-bit slots on both hoses. They are a > little more costly though. I have never actually played with one. Should you care to do so, I can make one available to you. See earlier messages... -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 17:27:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.33.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2354414C86; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:27:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from lestat (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA02782; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:27:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199912060127.RAA02782@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> To: Mike Smith Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:27:41 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:57:19 -0800 Mike Smith wrote: > It sounds like the UP1000 may be based on the AMD 751 chipset. I'm not > too impressed with these in the K7 application yet (they seem to have > overheating problems), so it will be interesting to see how they go with > the Alpha. If that's the part they're using, there'll be almost no work > involved in making the UP1000 work. ...except, of course, for the PALcode issue. -- Jason R. Thorpe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 20:17:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EE314CFE; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:17:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA54919; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:17:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ken@FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:17:40 -0800 (PST) From: Message-Id: <199912060417.UAA54919@freefall.freebsd.org> To: doug@myable.com, ken@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: alpha/15289: Testing GNATS Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Synopsis: Testing GNATS State-Changed-From-To: open->closed State-Changed-By: ken State-Changed-When: Sun Dec 5 20:17:21 PST 1999 State-Changed-Why: Invalid PR. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Sun Dec 5 20:48:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles554.castles.com [208.214.165.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E714B14DF1; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:48:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00903; Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:50:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912060450.UAA00903@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Mike Smith , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:27:41 PST." <199912060127.RAA02782@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 20:50:30 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:57:19 -0800 > Mike Smith wrote: > > > It sounds like the UP1000 may be based on the AMD 751 chipset. I'm not > > too impressed with these in the K7 application yet (they seem to have > > overheating problems), so it will be interesting to see how they go with > > the Alpha. If that's the part they're using, there'll be almost no work > > involved in making the UP1000 work. > > ...except, of course, for the PALcode issue. Well, that's their problem, not ours. However, let's clarify things here. Alpha Processor Inc. have a number of products, and there appears to be some confusion here. UP2000 AlphaBIOS only UP1000 AlphaBIOS only 264DP AlphaBIOS and SRM 164LX AlphaBIOS and SRM 164UX AlphaBIOS only This is based on their website; their FTP server doesn't want to let me in for whatever reason. Based on this, my original comments about the UP2000 stand; there appears to be no OSF PALcode (since there's no SRM), and thus we face the originally-described set of challenges in running on it. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Dec 6 21:24:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from nikita.rbwland.org (cx368164-b.phnx3.az.home.com [24.5.114.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BA614EE9 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:24:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbw@nikita.rbwland.org) Received: from localhost (rbw@localhost) by nikita.rbwland.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00361 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:24:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rbw@nikita.rbwland.org) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:24:47 -0700 (MST) From: bjp aka rbw To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: 3.3-S crashing with "ncr0: queue empty." after ~2 weeks Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (this is a fairly long and informal problem report... if there is a more appropriate place i should be sending this, i apologize and ask that you tell me where i should sent it.) i am running 3.3-STABLE (kernel built Tue Sep 28 15:59:23 MST 1999 ... cvsup and 'make world' were run on the same day) on a AS200 4/233. for the third time in as many weeks, this box has stopped being able to access the hard drive... and when i get to the console to see what is up i am greeted by the message "ncr0: queue empty." over and over ad infinitum. i can try to login, but it just hangs after asking for the password. any processes already running work just fine until they have to access the hard drive. i can ping the box just fine. i can swtich between screen(1) screens. i can even continue to use irc. the first time this happened, the box had been up for almost 2 weeks (wasn't paying that close attention at that point). the box hadn't been under much strain since i am the only one using it and all i had been doing was email and irc. the next time, i decided to run Crack v5.0 to see if i had any weak passwords on my system. this seemed to be semi-disk I/O intensive. it crashed with the repeating "ncr0: queue empty." error after about 6 days. the next time (today), i was connected from work via ssh and ircing (okay... so i prolly shouldn't do that from work =P). i had been watching my uptimes closely for a few days since i new i was coming up to about two weeks uptime and wanted to see if it would repeat itself... so i ran an 'uptime' about 15-20 minutes after first connecting from work... and it just froze. so i switched to another screen(1) screen and ran a 'ps'... and it just froze. so then i tried to lock screen(1) and (of course) it froze. ... the box had been up for 13 days. one thing to note is that it doesn't seem to work to just reboot the box... i have to actually power it down for a bit (i let it sit for about a minute). (this makes me think it is a hardware issue or a very low-level ncr0 driver issue.) now... i know that ncr0 is the scsi controller in this box, so i assume it is either a dodgy mobo or controller or some funkyness in the FreeBSD ncr0 driver. (unfortunately, i'm not technically saavy enough to delve into the internals of the ncr0 driver to figure it out.) basically, i have a few questions: 1) has anyone else with a similiar box run into this problem (with any OS)? 2) is this possibly limited to 3.3? (i have thought about trying 4.0-CURRENT, but would like to see this resolved in case anyone else is having this problem, too.) 3) is it likely dodgy hardware? any and all help is greatly appreciated. also, if you need any more information about my machine, i will be happy to provide it... just ask. =) thanks for your time, brian -- --===-----=======-----------=============-----------------=================== | rbw aka bjp | god's final message to his creation: | | rbw@nikita.rbwland.org | we apologize for the inconvenience. | ===================-----------------=============-----------=======-----===-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Mon Dec 6 21:58:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (castles552.castles.com [208.214.165.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA45314D7D for ; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:58:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00457; Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:00:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199912070600.WAA00457@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: bjp aka rbw Cc: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 3.3-S crashing with "ncr0: queue empty." after ~2 weeks In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Dec 1999 22:24:47 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 22:00:46 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > the next time, i decided to run Crack v5.0 to see if i had any weak > passwords on my system. this seemed to be semi-disk I/O intensive. it > crashed with the repeating "ncr0: queue empty." error after about 6 days. I've only seen this error in conjunction with failing NCR controllers; usually dying due to overheating in Multias. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Tue Dec 7 0:57:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from nikita.rbwland.org (cx368164-b.phnx3.az.home.com [24.5.114.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B3C14F0A; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:57:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbw@nikita.rbwland.org) Received: from localhost (rbw@localhost) by nikita.rbwland.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00555; Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:57:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rbw@nikita.rbwland.org) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 01:57:17 -0700 (MST) From: bjp aka rbw To: Mike Smith Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.3-S crashing with "ncr0: queue empty." after ~2 weeks In-Reply-To: <199912070600.WAA00457@mass.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > the next time, i decided to run Crack v5.0 to see if i had any weak > > passwords on my system. this seemed to be semi-disk I/O intensive. it > > crashed with the repeating "ncr0: queue empty." error after about 6 days. > > I've only seen this error in conjunction with failing NCR controllers; > usually dying due to overheating in Multias. the box doesn't seem to be running much higher than room temp, so i kind of doubt it's heat. (it's nothing like the multias... that's for sure.) if it is heat, do you think that maybe the NCR controller is permanently damaged? or do you think i should just look into cooling this thing? also, do you think there is a chance that this is an odd problem in 3.3-STABLE? (from what i can gather, most of the poeple on this list are running 4.0-CURRENT.) i will try 4.0-CURRENT when i can find the time and see if that fixes it. oh yeah... and anyone have some sort of test i can run that is highly disk intensive so i can try to force this problem to pop up? again, thanks for your time, brian -- --===-----=======-----------=============-----------------=================== | rbw aka bjp | god's final message to his creation: | | rbw@nikita.rbwland.org | we apologize for the inconvenience. | ===================-----------------=============-----------=======-----===-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 5: 7:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mail.syntegra.net (mail.syntegra.net [195.99.38.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D886114EF5 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 05:07:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from warp@xs4all.nl) Received: from snl05082 (alfa.syntegra.net [195.99.38.61]) by mail.syntegra.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA27809; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:08:34 GMT Message-ID: <384E58F2.4375@xs4all.nl> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 14:11:14 +0100 From: "warp@xs4all.nl" Reply-To: warp@xs4all.nl Organization: Alpha/Linux, The 64bit Generation X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Charles M. Hannum" Cc: alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org, paradis@linux01.hlo.dec.com Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) References: <14408.29267.776501.133049@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Charles M. Hannum wrote: > According to Jim Paradis, SRM exists for all boards produced by > Digital. It's what Digital/Compaq uses to test the boards in-house. > They simply didn't release it for some models, due to the flarghing NT > licensing crap. Jim, if they DO exist, make my day and give us a copy of the XL & XLT SRM firmware... Thanks!, Antoine To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 10:23:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from eniwetok.ihack.net (r94aag002979.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com [209.6.183.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99EFA15784 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mycroft@ihack.net) Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by eniwetok.ihack.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09314; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:44:03 -0500 (EST) To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: Lord Isildur , Matthew Jacob , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) References: <14408.29267.776501.133049@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> From: root@ihack.net (Charles M. Hannum) Date: 08 Dec 1999 03:43:58 -0500 In-Reply-To: Andrew Gallatin's message of "Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:58:24 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrew Gallatin writes: > The only problem with this argument is there are a few machines that > nobody ever made SRM for. Like the XL266 and the 300XL. They don't > trouble us because we don't have them. But we don't have them because > they don't run BSD. According to Jim Paradis, SRM exists for all boards produced by Digital. It's what Digital/Compaq uses to test the boards in-house. They simply didn't release it for some models, due to the flarghing NT licensing crap. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 10:42:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from eniwetok.ihack.net (r94aag002979.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com [209.6.183.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99EFA15784 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:23:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mycroft@ihack.net) Received: (from mycroft@localhost) by eniwetok.ihack.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09314; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 03:44:03 -0500 (EST) To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: Lord Isildur , Matthew Jacob , alpha@FreeBSD.ORG, port-alpha@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) References: <14408.29267.776501.133049@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> From: root@ihack.net (Charles M. Hannum) Date: 08 Dec 1999 03:43:58 -0500 In-Reply-To: Andrew Gallatin's message of "Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:58:24 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andrew Gallatin writes: > The only problem with this argument is there are a few machines that > nobody ever made SRM for. Like the XL266 and the 300XL. They don't > trouble us because we don't have them. But we don't have them because > they don't run BSD. According to Jim Paradis, SRM exists for all boards produced by Digital. It's what Digital/Compaq uses to test the boards in-house. They simply didn't release it for some models, due to the flarghing NT licensing crap. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 11:28:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBD615CE1 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:25:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id UAA21008 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:06:28 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00773 for freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:29:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199912081829.TAA00773@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: lockup when boot -v To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-alpha mailing list) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:29:16 +0100 (CET) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have a weird phenomenon which only seems to affect alpha: boot -fl v always locks up after printing "Mounting root from ufs:/dev/da0a" Omitting the -fl v works just fine. This is -current on a Miata. Ideas? Wilko -- Wilko Bulte Arnhem, The Netherlands - The FreeBSD Project WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 11:41:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF3D156ED for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:41:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from yedi.iaf.nl (uucp@localhost) by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.9.2/8.9.2) with UUCP id UAA21011; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:06:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00822; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:32:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wilko) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199912081832.TAA00822@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Q: Compaq, *BSD and 'Linux-only' AlphaBIOS (fwd) In-Reply-To: <384E58F2.4375@xs4all.nl> from "warp@xs4all.nl" at "Dec 8, 1999 2:11:14 pm" To: warp@xs4all.nl Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:32:25 +0100 (CET) Cc: root@ihack.net, alpha@freebsd.org, port-alpha@netbsd.org, paradis@linux01.hlo.dec.com X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-pgp-info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As warp@xs4all.nl wrote ... > Charles M. Hannum wrote: > > > According to Jim Paradis, SRM exists for all boards produced by > > Digital. It's what Digital/Compaq uses to test the boards in-house. Correct. I've seen the manufacturing instructions for XLT boards. Whether this is a full-function SRM I don't know (doubt?) Most likely for XLT it is a derivative of the Alcor (??? IIRC) SRM. Wilko -- Wilko Bulte Arnhem, The Netherlands - The FreeBSD Project WWW : http://www.tcja.nl http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 12:11: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E282116330 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04438; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:05:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA90925; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:04:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:04:57 -0500 (EST) To: Wilko Bulte Cc: freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD-alpha mailing list) Subject: Re: lockup when boot -v In-Reply-To: <199912081829.TAA00773@yedi.iaf.nl> References: <199912081829.TAA00773@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14414.47296.627385.97542@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wilko Bulte writes: > I have a weird phenomenon which only seems to affect alpha: > > boot -fl v always locks up after printing "Mounting root from ufs:/dev/da0a" > > Omitting the -fl v works just fine. This is -current on a Miata. > > Ideas? I've been seeing this or something like it for 9 months now. It happens on Miatas & xp1000s. I think it happens on AS500s too. There is some race between the isp driver & the cam scsi system. Changing the xpt_action() used the read the disk capacity in cam/scsi/scsi_da.c into xpt_polled_action() makes things work for me. I have spent hours trying to help Justin & Matt debug this. Still no joy. If you'd like to try your hand at it, let me know & I'll forward you more info. Try: Index: /home/home1/gallatin/zsys/cam/scsi/scsi_da.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/cam/scsi/scsi_da.c,v retrieving revision 1.40 diff -u -r1.40 scsi_da.c --- scsi_da.c 1999/10/29 18:08:22 1.40 +++ scsi_da.c 1999/12/07 15:25:04 @@ -1107,7 +1107,8 @@ /*timeout*/5000); start_ccb->ccb_h.ccb_bp = NULL; start_ccb->ccb_h.ccb_state = DA_CCB_PROBE; - xpt_action(start_ccb); + xpt_polled_action(start_ccb); +/* xpt_action(start_ccb);*/ break; } } Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 13:18:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch [62.48.0.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D9D11504A for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:18:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oppermann@pipeline.ch) Received: (qmail 59872 invoked from network); 8 Dec 1999 21:16:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pipeline.ch) ([195.134.128.41]) (envelope-sender ) by mailtoaster1.pipeline.ch (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Dec 1999 21:16:45 -0000 Message-ID: <384ECADC.D94CA286@pipeline.ch> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 22:17:16 +0100 From: Andre Oppermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bjp aka rbw Cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.3-S crashing with "ncr0: queue empty." after ~2 weeks References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org bjp aka rbw wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > the next time, i decided to run Crack v5.0 to see if i had any weak > > > passwords on my system. this seemed to be semi-disk I/O intensive. it > > > crashed with the repeating "ncr0: queue empty." error after about 6 days. > > > > I've only seen this error in conjunction with failing NCR controllers; > > usually dying due to overheating in Multias. > > the box doesn't seem to be running much higher than room temp, so i kind > of doubt it's heat. (it's nothing like the multias... that's for sure.) > if it is heat, do you think that maybe the NCR controller is permanently > damaged? or do you think i should just look into cooling this thing? > > also, do you think there is a chance that this is an odd problem in > 3.3-STABLE? (from what i can gather, most of the poeple on this list are > running 4.0-CURRENT.) i will try 4.0-CURRENT when i can find the time and > see if that fixes it. > > oh yeah... and anyone have some sort of test i can run that is highly disk > intensive so i can try to force this problem to pop up? I had the same problem some month ago for some time, but I'm running -current on that box. At that time Stefan Esser did some modifications to ncr.c, I checked out the version before these changes but it didn't fix the problem. I suspect some other circumstances in the CAM stack to be the cause for it. "queue empty" is the default in a case statement. If someone can/want to track this down I'll help where I can. For some time now I havent got that error anymore, probably because I don't hit the HDD that hard anymore. -- Andre To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-alpha Wed Dec 8 15:52:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-alpha@freebsd.org Received: from gw.one.com.au (gw.one.com.au [203.18.85.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C09214D3A for ; Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:52:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from MAX@one.com.au) Received: from one.com.au (pxx.local [10.18.85.1]) by gw.one.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA18049 for alpha@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:52:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from MAX@one.com.au) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:52:19 +1000 (EST) From: MAX@one.com.au Message-Id: <199912082352.JAA18049@gw.one.com.au> Subject: syscons:blank_time/etc/rc.alpha:cannot open /dev/ttyv0: no such device Sender: owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org or address Hi all, Currently, I am having this problem to get the main terminal up. syscons:blank_time/etc/rc.alpha:cannot open /dev/ttyv0: no such device or address I have checked the device in /dev. Everything there seems fine to me. pfa# ll ttyv* crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 0 Dec 8 21:01 ttyv0 crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 1 Dec 8 21:01 ttyv1 crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 2 Dec 8 21:01 ttyv2 crw------- 1 root wheel 12, 3 Dec 8 21:01 ttyv3 I dont know what else the rc.alpha file trying to initialize. From my understanding, in that file, it was trying to initialize the vga driver. The vga card is from Digital model PBXGA. Any ideas of how to solve it? Thanks max To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-alpha" in the body of the message