From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 1:30:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D886315046 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 01:30:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem14.masternet.it [194.184.65.24]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA04993; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:29:30 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990315102930.00a17e50@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:31:10 +0100 To: Licia From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: added chroot to /usr/bin/login Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, fad@o-o.org In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990312184119.03fc6be0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 21.00 12/03/99 -0600, Licia wrote: >Have fun :) I've already put modified versions up, with the gid part removed, >and may if there's interest, put up another version with expansion of ~ in the >chroot capability string :) Feel free to modify any and all versions of >those, or any other source I post on my home site :) I'll like very much the ~ expansion :-) Why not to use it by default ? Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 5:39:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B4BC14FF8 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 05:39:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10MB6M-000KEv-0C; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:38:47 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA01448; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:38:36 GMT Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id NAA00501; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:14:46 GMT (envelope-from marko) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:14:45 +0000 From: Mark Ovens To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Charles Henrich , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Message-ID: <19990314131445.B269@marder-1.localhost> References: <19990313140102.34440@orbit.flnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Kris Kennaway on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:55:28PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 02:55:28PM +0930, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Charles Henrich wrote: > > > Thanks Guys.. I've sent in a new splash screen, its got a frame of > > CG from the upcomign sci-fi film the Matrix... We used a bunch of > > dual proc freebsd systems to render a goodly portion of the effects > > in this film, this frame is from the major CG shot of the film, > > but isnt final, its as of about a month ago. > > Awesome - are you able to explain a bit more about the setup you used to do > this - what software did you use, etc? > Where is this image posted? I've checked http://www.baldwin.cx/splash and http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich but can't find it. -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 12:26:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (mail1.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE02114D25 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:24:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-69-4.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.69.4]) by mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17001; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:23:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA18587; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:15:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: kerberus@inetu.net Cc: dcon@grapevine.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Chuck enlisted to fight Amway? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:56:15 -0500" <36EC145E.E7C8385C@inetu.net> References: <36EC145E.E7C8385C@inetu.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990314151514E.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:15:14 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 16 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [to -chat] No, it's there, the URL ran into the next sentence. It's some rant against Amway. From: Kerberus > if ya click the link you get a 404 error requested page not found, i > think chuck has moved > > dougg conley wrote: > > > Chuck the BSDaemon is on http://www.teleport.com/~schwartz .Is he ^ > > supposed to be there? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 12:34:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5575B14DD2 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:34:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA29246; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:34:06 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:34:05 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Unix vs Windows...slightly disappointing results... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > > > > On 12-Mar-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > FreeBSD is on a PII-266, using a couple of different encoders (most > > > recent: bladeenc), its takes ~20min per track, not including RIP time. > > > > > > WinNT 4.0 Workstation, on a Pentium 166...it takes ~5 minutes to RIP *and* > > > encode that same track, including what the software calls "normalizing". > > > > > > Both are idle machines whil ethis is happening... > > > > > > Why does it take a quarter of the time under WinNT? > > > Hmm.. well depends on the software.. Xing's older mp3 compressor used > > to filter out anything above 16khz :) > > I'm using this one, and it reports that it goes up to 20khz ... sound > quality appears fine... > > > Perhaps a listen test is in order. > > > > Also, which encoder under FreeBSD? > > As mentiond above...bladeenc :) > > > I use bladenc, and on a PII-350 I get about 1:3.1 time (ie 1 min of real audio takes 3.1 > > minutes to compress) > > Am using a Pentium 166, tohoguh, for the WinNT machine, so would expect to > get substantially worst timings then my PII-266 FreeBSD box...no? > MP3 is almost exclusively compute bound on quite about anything given reasonable software. If software x is available on both and it is slower on one system someone forgot to turn optimisation on. Or the software isn't identical. Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. > Marc G. Fournier > Systems Administrator @ hub.org > primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 13:36:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D06152DD for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:36:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from shell1.interlog.com (paulg@shell1.interlog.com [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA13003; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:36:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:42:09 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Griffith To: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org Cc: solarisonintel@egroups.com Subject: PPro 200 vs PII 400 In-Reply-To: <19990313190305.A1423@austin.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am looking for any web sites that compares the PPro to the PII. I have a possible new customer that is looking to replace their PPro 200, with a PII 400 for about $6000.00 CDN. The problem is they have only 10 Win95 Clients running a DOS based business app. They have used up 1 GIG on a 2 GB HD in the last 2 years. Yet the new server includes 2x9.1 GB HD (L0 Raid). What gets me here is that the person who is trying to sell them this package didn't even suggest they upgrade their network to 100BaseT, it's still 10BaseT ! Any pointers. I was suggesting they upgrade their network first, then look at the Server. Thanks Paul Griffith <> paulg@interlog.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 15:16:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [194.77.0.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7082214F4B for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:15:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA02655; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:15:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id AAA39105; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:15:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:15:21 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org See the links in my signature ... Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system SMP arena ...... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 16:45:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0172015118 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:45:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11709; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:41:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:41:19 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: Andreas Klemm Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > See the links in my signature ... > > Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system > SMP arena ...... I took a quick look and it's eat to have some numbers with these features. I'm not likely to get my hands on multiproc. machines so I was hoping that someone would do something like this. Would it be possible for you to run the same tests with the 2.2 kernel? I would think that regardless of the label ( "stable", "current", etc ) the 2.2 kernel would be the one most people would put up against FBSD 3.1 > > -- > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 17: 7:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B69E14BDA for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:07:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kfurge@worldnet.att.net) Received: from phaser.indy.net ([12.75.221.54]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with ESMTP id <19990315010644.CHHD2256@phaser.indy.net>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:06:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phaser.indy.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA01292; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:57:10 -0500 (EST) From: kfurge@worldnet.att.net Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:57:10 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: kfurge@kcfhome.my.domain To: Travis Ruthenburg Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD user group In-Reply-To: <199903130222.VAA26008@trickster.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yes, there are other hoosiers lurking around here! I live just south of Indianapolis in Greenwood, IN. Been an active FreeBSD user/advocate going on 5 years now. I think John Dyson is also somewhere close by. - K.C. On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Travis Ruthenburg wrote: > Yes, with the recent news I've been reading of FreeBSD user groups I find > myself wondering if there are any other hoosiers (especially in Southern > Indiana) out there using FreeBSD. > > Regards, > > Travis Ruthenburg > bjork bjork bjork > travis@trickster.net > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 17:32:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EFDC15CCD for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:32:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA06241; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 02:32:15 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id CAA01855; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 02:09:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 02:09:09 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Joseph Scott Cc: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315020909.A1841@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Joseph Scott on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 07:41:19PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 07:41:19PM -0500, Joseph Scott wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > See the links in my signature ... > > > > Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system > > SMP arena ...... > > I took a quick look and it's eat to have some numbers with these > features. I'm not likely to get my hands on multiproc. machines so I was > hoping that someone would do something like this. > > Would it be possible for you to run the same tests with the 2.2 > kernel? I would think that regardless of the label ( "stable", "current", > etc ) the 2.2 kernel would be the one most people would put up against > FBSD 3.1 No, have no such system up and running. 3.1 is -STABLE now, 2.x is not supported anymore. And ... 2.x doesn't have SMP... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 17:38:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trickster.net (trickster.net [199.1.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2186015496 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:38:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from travis@trickster.net) Received: from [209.154.112.56] (chi-qbu-nvn-vty56.as.wcom.net [209.154.112.56]) by trickster.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA29403; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:38:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903150138.UAA29403@trickster.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:54:06 -0500 x-sender: travis@wildebeest.trickster.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Travis Ruthenburg To: "Andreas Klemm" Cc: "Joseph Scott" , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 3/14/99 8:09 PM, Andreas Klemm (andreas@klemm.gtn.com) uttered: >No, have no such system up and running. 3.1 is -STABLE now, 2.x is >not supported anymore. And ... 2.x doesn't have SMP... I think he meant the 2.2 Linux kernel. Travis Ruthenburg bjork bjork bjork travis@trickster.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 17:46:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B741215097 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990315014709.EAPS682101.mta1-rme@wocker>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:47:09 +1300 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: joseph@randomnetworks.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:46:56 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990315014709.EAPS682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 14 Mar 99, at 19:41, Joseph Scott wrote: > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > See the links in my signature ... > > > > Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system > > SMP arena ...... > > I took a quick look and it's eat to have some numbers with these > features. I'm not likely to get my hands on multiproc. machines so I was > hoping that someone would do something like this. > > Would it be possible for you to run the same tests with the 2.2 > kernel? I would think that regardless of the label ( "stable", "current", > etc ) the 2.2 kernel would be the one most people would put up against > FBSD 3.1 FWIW the first thing someone mentioned to me was the tests were against Linux 2.0 kernel... Those were people who don't use FreeBSD. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 18: 0:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DBD15BF4 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:00:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21005; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:57:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:57:04 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: Andreas Klemm Cc: Joseph Scott , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990315020909.A1841@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > Would it be possible for you to run the same tests with the 2.2 > > kernel? I would think that regardless of the label ( "stable", "current", > > etc ) the 2.2 kernel would be the one most people would put up against > > FBSD 3.1 > > No, have no such system up and running. 3.1 is -STABLE now, 2.x is > not supported anymore. And ... 2.x doesn't have SMP... Sorry, I should have been more specific, the LINUX 2.2 kernel, not the FBSD one. > > -- > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html > Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 18: 2:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (unknown [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BB301537E for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:02:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18223; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:03:42 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:03:42 -0800 (PST) From: To: Dan Langille Cc: joseph@randomnetworks.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990315014709.EAPS682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Not to get all competitive here, but the 2.2 series is the new stable kernel now. 2.3 is the new development kernel. It's hardly fair to run the latest FreeBSD against an old Linux kernel. On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > > Would it be possible for you to run the same tests with the 2.2 > > kernel? I would think that regardless of the label ( "stable", "current", > > etc ) the 2.2 kernel would be the one most people would put up against > > FBSD 3.1 > FWIW the first thing someone mentioned to me was the tests were against > Linux 2.0 kernel... > Those were people who don't use FreeBSD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 18:46:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7299614E70 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29926; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:17 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Andreas Klemm Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:15:21AM +0100 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:15:21AM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > See the links in my signature ... > > Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system > SMP arena ...... > > -- > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html Well, if you wanted this to be really public, you picked the right way to go about it. Just wait until someone drops this onto the linux lists. I wonder what the signal:flame ratio will be. Bets, anyone, on time to slashdot, as well as the ratio? Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Black holes were created mailto:gsutter@pobox.com when God divided by zero. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 19: 5:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (unknown [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB39414E97 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:05:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23304; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:05:42 -0800 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't have a problem with FreeBSD doing any better than Linux in SMP. I'm going to use whatever OS gives me the best performance, and I'll switch to FreeBSD for the majority of my servers in a second if it'll help me. I'm fairly competent with both OS, even if I do have more experience with Linux. I do however object to the testing methods here -- For one thing, it doesn't look like the Linux kernel was actually recompiled in SMP mode, 'coz I can build bash in that time in single processor mode :) I definitely see massive improvements when I use a dual+ processor system under Linux. SuSE, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't ship SMP kernels in the default distribution. And of course, SuSE' STABLE kernel doesn't mean much, since the distributions aren't tied to the kernel tree like FreeBSD is. The 2.2.x series kernels are available, with upgrade instructions on http://www.linuxhq.com if anyone feels like rerunning those tests. I'd be more interested in a real world test that actually makes a difference, like maybe a web server or something doing a lot of traffic. On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:15:21AM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > See the links in my signature ... > > > > Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system > > SMP arena ...... > > > > -- > > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > > See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html > > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html > > Well, if you wanted this to be really public, you picked the right way > to go about it. Just wait until someone drops this onto the linux > lists. I wonder what the signal:flame ratio will be. Bets, anyone, on > time to slashdot, as well as the ratio? > > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter Black holes were created > mailto:gsutter@pobox.com when God divided by zero. > http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ > PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 19:30:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9875115092 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:30:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 9859 invoked from network); 15 Mar 1999 03:29:53 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 1999 03:29:53 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA01018; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:29:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903150329.WAA01018@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD user group In-Reply-To: from "kfurge@worldnet.att.net" at "Mar 14, 99 07:57:10 pm" To: kfurge@worldnet.att.net Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:29:18 -0500 (EST) Cc: travis@trickster.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org kfurge@worldnet.att.net said: > > Yes, there are other hoosiers lurking around here! I live just south of > Indianapolis in Greenwood, IN. Been an active FreeBSD user/advocate going > on 5 years now. I think John Dyson is also somewhere close by. > Yep, I live in Indy (near Castleton.) Also, I work in the Bay area, so have excellent contacts there. I wouldn't mind getting together, but need an approx 2-3 day notice (to rotate my hours to sanity :-)). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 21: 2:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B98314D07 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:02:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA09666; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:02:31 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990314220012.03f54a70@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:01:26 -0700 To: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Cc: de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Great! What is the current state of lock pushdown in the FreeBSD kernel? Have the interrupt handling problems been nuked? --Brett At 12:15 AM 3/15/99 +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: >See the links in my signature ... > >Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system >SMP arena ...... > >-- >Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas >News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! >See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 21:55: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB69114D3E for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:54:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA11576; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:54:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id CAA03028; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 02:46:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 02:46:32 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Travis Ruthenburg Cc: Andreas Klemm , Joseph Scott , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315024632.A3011@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <199903150138.UAA29403@trickster.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199903150138.UAA29403@trickster.net>; from Travis Ruthenburg on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 07:54:06PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 07:54:06PM -0500, Travis Ruthenburg wrote: > On 3/14/99 8:09 PM, Andreas Klemm (andreas@klemm.gtn.com) uttered: > > >No, have no such system up and running. 3.1 is -STABLE now, 2.x is > >not supported anymore. And ... 2.x doesn't have SMP... > > I think he meant the 2.2 Linux kernel. Ah .. didn't had time for that, but would be interesting.... On the other hand SuSE Linux comes as supported system with the kernel from which SuSE says ... this is stable and the only kernel we support ... If I run a webserver farm or something like this and buy supprot from SUSE, then I'd get this system as it is ... but not a hacker system with a hacker kernel ... So I wanted to compare FreeBSD-STABLE with Linux-STABLE... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 22: 4:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA9814E13 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA11798; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:04:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA01370; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:03:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:03:36 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: unknown@riverstyx.net Cc: Dan Langille , joseph@randomnetworks.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315070336.A1356@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315014709.EAPS682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from unknown@riverstyx.net on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 06:03:42PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 06:03:42PM -0800, unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > Not to get all competitive here, but the 2.2 series is the new stable > kernel now. 2.3 is the new development kernel. It's hardly fair to run > the latest FreeBSD against an old Linux kernel. Hmm, sorry for that, but that was actually most up to date Linux version I had. And if SuSE sells it as stable, it's for me the stable version. Hmm ... will last some days, until I can repeat it ... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 22:41: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEC914ECB for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:41:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA12574; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:40:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA02428; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:40:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:40:25 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315074025.A2402@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com>; from Gregory Sutter on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 06:46:17PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 06:46:17PM -0800, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:15:21AM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > See the links in my signature ... > > > > Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system > > SMP arena ...... > > > > -- > > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > > See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html > > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html > > Well, if you wanted this to be really public, you picked the right way > to go about it. Just wait until someone drops this onto the linux > lists. I wonder what the signal:flame ratio will be. Bets, anyone, on > time to slashdot, as well as the ratio? I added a note, about why I compared FreeBSD 3.1 with SuSE Linux 6.0 kernel version 2.0.36. I only wanted to compare two _stable_ systems as they ship... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 22:44:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F45814FB1 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:44:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA08058; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:13:22 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA16484; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:13:20 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990315171320.Y429@lemis.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:13:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: unknown@riverstyx.net, Gregory Sutter Cc: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! References: <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from unknown@riverstyx.net on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 07:05:42PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 14 March 1999 at 19:05:42 -0800, unknown@riverstyx.net wrote: > On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Gregory Sutter wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:15:21AM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: >>> See the links in my signature ... >>> >>> Enjoy it ... Linux brings 0% performance gain in the "stable" system >>> SMP arena ...... >>> >>> See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html >>> http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html >> >> Well, if you wanted this to be really public, you picked the right way >> to go about it. Just wait until someone drops this onto the linux >> lists. I wonder what the signal:flame ratio will be. Bets, anyone, on >> time to slashdot, as well as the ratio? > > I don't have a problem with FreeBSD doing any better than Linux in SMP. > I'm going to use whatever OS gives me the best performance, and I'll > switch to FreeBSD for the majority of my servers in a second if it'll help > me. I'm fairly competent with both OS, even if I do have more experience > with Linux. I do however object to the testing methods here -- For one > thing, it doesn't look like the Linux kernel was actually recompiled in > SMP mode, 'coz I can build bash in that time in single processor mode :) I > definitely see massive improvements when I use a dual+ processor system > under Linux. SuSE, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't ship SMP kernels > in the default distribution. And of course, SuSE' STABLE kernel doesn't > mean much, since the distributions aren't tied to the kernel tree like > FreeBSD is. The 2.2.x series kernels are available, with upgrade > instructions on http://www.linuxhq.com if anyone feels like rerunning > those tests. I tend to agree. I could accept the statement "Linux SMP gives less performance than FreeBSD SMP". I can't accept the statement "Linux SMP gives no performance improvement". The first thing that came into my mind was "he must have made a mistake". Other possibilities are that make -j doesn't work right on Linux, or that Linux SMP doesn't even the load as well as FreeBSD does (for example, some MP systems put all children in the same CPU). Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 22:50:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A143B150BD for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:50:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA92786; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:49:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903150649.WAA92786@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:46:17 PST." <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:49:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Well, if you wanted this to be really public, you picked the right way > to go about it. Just wait until someone drops this onto the linux > lists. I wonder what the signal:flame ratio will be. Bets, anyone, on > time to slashdot, as well as the ratio? > Lets us hope that indeed the linux folks do get feisty so that the debate may spill out to the Press that is if Brett doesn't beat them first 8) Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 23: 2:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A132A15131 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:02:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29903; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:58:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:58:15 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: Andreas Klemm Cc: Travis Ruthenburg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990315024632.A3011@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Ah .. didn't had time for that, but would be interesting.... > > On the other hand SuSE Linux comes as supported system with > the kernel from which SuSE says ... this is stable and the > only kernel we support ... Hummm. Fair enough, then maybe Red Hat 5.2 would be a good comparision. ( I think it's 5.2 that's got the Linux 2.2 kernel, to be honest my actuall "work" only involves FreeBSD, so any Linux stuff is pretty much outside of my normal day, although interesting none the less ) > > If I run a webserver farm or something like this and buy > supprot from SUSE, then I'd get this system as it is ... > but not a hacker system with a hacker kernel ... > > So I wanted to compare FreeBSD-STABLE with Linux-STABLE... I was under the impression that the general Linux community felt that the 2.2 kernel was the new stable. I always thought it was neat how the new Linux 2.2 kernel and the new FreeBSD 3 came out around the same time, and both seemed to make big jumps in their use of things like smp. > > -- > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html > http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html > Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Mar 14 23:12:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97F8A14FBA for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 3127 invoked by alias); 15 Mar 1999 07:11:13 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org@fixme Received: (qmail 3106 invoked by uid 0); 15 Mar 1999 07:11:12 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 1999 07:11:12 -0000 Message-ID: <36ECB28D.360212B2@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:11:09 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Griffith Cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.org, solarisonintel@egroups.com Subject: Re: PPro 200 vs PII 400 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paul Griffith wrote: > > I am looking for any web sites that compares the PPro to the PII. I have a > possible new customer that is looking to replace their PPro 200, with a > PII 400 for about $6000.00 CDN. The problem is they have only 10 Win95 > Clients running a DOS based business app. They have used up 1 GIG on a 2 > GB HD in the last 2 years. Yet the new server includes 2x9.1 GB HD (L0 > Raid). What gets me here is that the person who is trying to sell them > this package didn't even suggest they upgrade their network to 100BaseT, > it's still 10BaseT ! > > Any pointers. I was suggesting they upgrade their network first, then look > at the Server. That'd be my first target as well. How is the network laid out? A 100mbps line server to hub, then 10mbps to the workstations can make a huge difference without having to rewire everything. Are they even maxing out the server? If not, it won't mean squat no matter how much horsepower they get. -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 0:10:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hades.riverstyx.net (unknown [216.94.42.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B7415375 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:10:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from unknown@riverstyx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown@localhost) by hades.riverstyx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01125; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:11:43 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:11:43 -0800 (PST) From: To: Joseph Scott Cc: Andreas Klemm , Travis Ruthenburg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Joseph Scott wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > Ah .. didn't had time for that, but would be interesting.... > > > > On the other hand SuSE Linux comes as supported system with > > the kernel from which SuSE says ... this is stable and the > > only kernel we support ... > > Hummm. Fair enough, then maybe Red Hat 5.2 would be a good > comparision. ( I think it's 5.2 that's got the Linux 2.2 kernel, to be > honest my actuall "work" only involves FreeBSD, so any Linux stuff is > pretty much outside of my normal day, although interesting none the less ) Currently, no distribution actually ships with the 2.2.x kernel, since no distributions have been released since the 2.2.x kernel was released. As I mentioned before, the kernel development schedule is in no way related to the distribution development schedule (aside from the distributions trying to keep up). It's also non-trivial to upgrade as a general rule, and no distribution (that I know of) is planning a release including the 2.2.x kernel by default 'coz they're still regression testing it. Still, the kernel "is" Linux, not the distribution. If the Linux kernel crew deem it the stable branch (which it is, by definition), then it's the same as the FreeBSD people branding 3.1-stable as stable. > > If I run a webserver farm or something like this and buy > > supprot from SUSE, then I'd get this system as it is ... > > but not a hacker system with a hacker kernel ... > > > > So I wanted to compare FreeBSD-STABLE with Linux-STABLE... > I was under the impression that the general Linux community felt > that the 2.2 kernel was the new stable. I always thought it was neat how > the new Linux 2.2 kernel and the new FreeBSD 3 came out around the same > time, and both seemed to make big jumps in their use of things like smp. That's pretty much the end of my rant, I'm going to shut up about it from now on. I just want to finish off by saying that I really like FreeBSD, and I'm not some kinda Linux Nazi just because I don't agree with this particular benchmark. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 2:21:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6FD14F3E for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 02:21:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA07802; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:20:45 +0200 (EET) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:20:45 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Paul Griffith Cc: FreeBSD-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, solarisonintel@egroups.com Subject: Re: PPro 200 vs PII 400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Paul Griffith wrote: > I am looking for any web sites that compares the PPro to the PII. I have a > possible new customer that is looking to replace their PPro 200, with a > PII 400 for about $6000.00 CDN. The problem is they have only 10 Win95 > Clients running a DOS based business app. They have used up 1 GIG on a 2 > GB HD in the last 2 years. Yet the new server includes 2x9.1 GB HD (L0 > Raid). What gets me here is that the person who is trying to sell them > this package didn't even suggest they upgrade their network to 100BaseT, > it's still 10BaseT ! > > Any pointers. I was suggesting they upgrade their network first, then look > at the Server. Nother thing they might want to try is the P-II overdrive that plugs into the PPro socket and runs at 333Mhz. > > Thanks > Paul Griffith <> paulg@interlog.com > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 4:31: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from neutron.cichlids.com (as6-051.rp-plus.de [149.221.238.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 07DBE14DDB for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 04:30:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: (qmail 1856 invoked from network); 15 Mar 1999 12:35:31 -0000 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (192.168.0.10) by neutron.cichlids.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 1999 12:35:31 -0000 Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id NAA00688; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:29:51 +0100 (CET) From: Alexander Langer Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:29:51 +0100 To: Andreas Klemm Cc: Joseph Scott , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315132951.B515@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <19990315001521.A39079@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990315020909.A1841@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <19990315020909.A1841@titan.klemm.gtn.com> X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Es sprach Andreas Klemm (andreas@klemm.gtn.com): > No, have no such system up and running. 3.1 is -STABLE now, 2.x is > not supported anymore. And ... 2.x doesn't have SMP... He might meant Linux 2.2. ? Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 4:36:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guerilla.foo.bar (hennen32s.iserlohn.netsurf.de [194.195.194.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5765914DB8 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 04:36:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sas@schell.de) Received: (qmail 1042 invoked from network); 15 Mar 1999 13:36:37 +0100 Received: from innernet (masked all received headers); 15 Mar 1999 13:36:37 +0100 Received: (from sas@localhost) by flaubert.foo.bar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01028; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:36:02 +0100 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:36:02 +0100 From: Sascha Schumann To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html Message-ID: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.2-ac7 alpha Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Andreas, you say that you have used the Linux kernel which came with SuSE 6.0. As far as I know (we are using SuSE 5.3 in production) SuSE has never shipped SMP kernels. So I really do not know how you want to compare a self-compiled, self-optimized FreeBSD SMP system against a standard, non-optimized UP system. And no, compiling bash is not a real-life application. At least not, if you do not spend your whole time compiling and creating silly "benchmarks." -- Regards, Sascha Schumann | Consultant | finger sas@schell.de | for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 7:14:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12CD114C25 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:14:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11014; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:13:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from free.pcs (free.PCS [148.105.10.51]) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA04910; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:13:15 -0600 Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by free.pcs (8.8.6/8.8.5) id JAA17207; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:13:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:13:15 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <199903151513.JAA17207@free.pcs> To: brett@lariat.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Architecture and Operating System Fanatics Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In article you write: >Great! What is the current state of lock pushdown in the FreeBSD >kernel? Have the interrupt handling problems been nuked? The lock pushdown doesn't extend to all subsystems, so certain sections of the kernel are sill serialized, as far as I can tell. On a tangent, this week there is a web proxy bakeoff that is intended to compare performance of high-end web proxies. Of possible interest to this list is that the entire testbed is based on 2.2.7 machines. See http://www.ircache.net, or http//bakeoff.ircache.net/doc/logistics.html Also, at least one of the entries (which I hope will win) is based on a modified 3.1 kernel. Unfortunatly, it's still running a UP kernel since the SMP kernel with this application gives a net loss in performance. Also, in this particular environment, Linux is simply not able to deliver the performance required. Neither is Digital Unix, running on an AlphaServer; it seems they have some, umm, interesting bugs in their TCP/IP stack. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 9: 1:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DF6B314E6D for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:01:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199903122156.QAA16017@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by marsellus.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA12328; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:53:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:53:27 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: "Viren R. Shah" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: <199903111952.OAA20949@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Viren R. Shah wrote: > > Has anyone been able to view the new SW trailer on a FreeBSD box? The > quicktime version uses codecs unsupported by xanim, and the mpg > version that I found won't play sound when played thru mpeg_play. I have xanim compiled with all the extra objects to support indeo, cinepak, and the other(forget what it's called), for 3.0. Works fine here. Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 10:12:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [194.77.0.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3B91542F for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:12:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04276; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:12:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA03348; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:10:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:10:27 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Sascha Schumann Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html Message-ID: <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de>; from Sascha Schumann on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:36:02PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:36:02PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > Hi Andreas, > > you say that you have used the Linux kernel which came with SuSE 6.0. > > As far as I know (we are using SuSE 5.3 in production) SuSE has never shipped > SMP kernels. So I really do not know how you want to compare a self-compiled, > self-optimized FreeBSD SMP system against a standard, non-optimized UP > system. > > And no, compiling bash is not a real-life application. At least not, if you do > not spend your whole time compiling and creating silly "benchmarks." Hmm, i recompiled the Linux kernel. Perhaps I repeat the test with an 2.2 kernel.... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 10:13: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4261B1542B for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04280; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:12:22 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA03036; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:02:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:02:28 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Joseph Scott Cc: Andreas Klemm , Travis Ruthenburg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315190228.A3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315024632.A3011@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from Joseph Scott on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:58:15AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:58:15AM -0500, Joseph Scott wrote: > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > I was under the impression that the general Linux community felt > that the 2.2 kernel was the new stable. I always thought it was neat how > the new Linux 2.2 kernel and the new FreeBSD 3 came out around the same > time, and both seemed to make big jumps in their use of things like smp. No, FreeBSD SMP is in good shape since over a year or so ... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 10:13: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A71D51546F for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:13:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA04285; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:12:24 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA03290; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:05:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:05:22 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Greg Lehey Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, Gregory Sutter , Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315190522.B3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> <19990315171320.Y429@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990315171320.Y429@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 05:13:20PM +1030 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 05:13:20PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > I tend to agree. I could accept the statement "Linux SMP gives less > performance than FreeBSD SMP". I can't accept the statement "Linux > SMP gives no performance improvement". Well, exactly that was the result. Try it yourself. > The first thing that came into > my mind was "he must have made a mistake". Other possibilities are > that make -j doesn't work right on Linux, or that Linux SMP doesn't > even the load as well as FreeBSD does (for example, some MP systems > put all children in the same CPU). Hmmm.... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~fsmp/SMP/akgraph-a/graph1.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 11:16:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from geek.grf.ov.com (geek.grf.ov.com [192.251.86.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E937015144 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from pebbles (pebbles.cam.veritas.com [166.98.49.16]) by geek.grf.ov.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA09071 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:16:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903151916.OAA09071@geek.grf.ov.com> X-Sender: ksmm@mail.cybercom.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:13:55 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: The Return of the Amiga Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's not FreeBSD news at all, but I know that there are a few old Amiga transplants in the audience. Check out the article at today at: http://www.excite.com/computers_and_internet/tech_news/zdnet/?article=zdnew s4.inp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 12:14:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E4DF15145 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:14:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 15284 invoked from network); 15 Mar 1999 20:14:36 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 1999 20:14:36 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA13370; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:14:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903152014.PAA13370@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990315190228.A3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> from Andreas Klemm at "Mar 15, 99 07:02:28 pm" To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:14:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: joseph@randomnetworks.com, andreas@klemm.gtn.com, travis@trickster.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm said: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:58:15AM -0500, Joseph Scott wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > > I was under the impression that the general Linux community felt > > that the 2.2 kernel was the new stable. I always thought it was neat how > > the new Linux 2.2 kernel and the new FreeBSD 3 came out around the same > > time, and both seemed to make big jumps in their use of things like smp. > > No, FreeBSD SMP is in good shape since over a year or so ... > FreeBSD SMP needs in-depth work, but does work okay for most workstation loads. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 12:33:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-2.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143AE15056; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:33:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA04335; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:33:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:33:32 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: gummibear@we.mediaone.net Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Concerning PC Mags pitiful mention of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990306102112.007ada60@we.mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Ok, this is concerning the ariticle in PC Magazine's March edition (Vol. > 18, No. 6 Marche 23, 1999). To make a long story short, they had like too > articles on Linux and the GPL. The first one was some editors note, then > the other was a full blown Unix timeline, installation guide, and > comparisons between 4 different distributions. > > Well actually, they called it more of an "Open Source" aritcle. Not just a > Linux article. I finally got around to reading that horrible article (a URL was just posted to /.). Yich. Please, everyone, it's time for some Brett style advocacy. These guys can't even figure out what the acronym KDE stands for (hint: it's NOT Kool Desktop Environment). - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 13:30:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED641538D for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA10318; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:30:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id WAA01274; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:29:49 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:29:49 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: Andreas Klemm , joseph@randomnetworks.com, travis@trickster.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990315222949.C1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315190228.A3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <199903152014.PAA13370@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199903152014.PAA13370@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 03:14:31PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 03:14:31PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Andreas Klemm said: > > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:58:15AM -0500, Joseph Scott wrote: > > > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > > > > I was under the impression that the general Linux community felt > > > that the 2.2 kernel was the new stable. I always thought it was neat how > > > the new Linux 2.2 kernel and the new FreeBSD 3 came out around the same > > > time, and both seemed to make big jumps in their use of things like smp. > > > > No, FreeBSD SMP is in good shape since over a year or so ... > > > FreeBSD SMP needs in-depth work, but does work okay for most workstation > loads. To bring in some new flesh here ... I repeated the tests with Linux Kernel release 2.2.3. And yes, the results are better ... But we are still 19% better ;-) Andreas /// -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms Linux 2.2.3 by 19% ;-) See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 13:51:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trickster.net (trickster.net [199.1.13.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ECC9155D9 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:51:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from travis@trickster.net) Received: from [206.175.99.137] (hil-qbu-ppl-vty9.as.wcom.net [206.175.99.137]) by trickster.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA13458; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:50:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903152150.QAA13458@trickster.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:06:21 -0500 x-sender: travis@wildebeest.trickster.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Travis Ruthenburg To: "Andreas Klemm" , "John S. Dyson" Cc: , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 3/15/99 4:29 PM, Andreas Klemm (andreas@klemm.gtn.com) uttered: >On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 03:14:31PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: >> Andreas Klemm said: >> > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 01:58:15AM -0500, Joseph Scott wrote: >> > > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: >> > > >> > > I was under the impression that the general Linux community felt >> > > that the 2.2 kernel was the new stable. I always thought it was neat how >> > > the new Linux 2.2 kernel and the new FreeBSD 3 came out around the same >> > > time, and both seemed to make big jumps in their use of things like smp. >> > >> > No, FreeBSD SMP is in good shape since over a year or so ... >> > >> FreeBSD SMP needs in-depth work, but does work okay for most workstation >> loads. > >To bring in some new flesh here ... I repeated the tests with Linux >Kernel release 2.2.3. And yes, the results are better ... > >But we are still 19% better ;-) That's great to hear. I'm sure everyone would be happier if FreeBSD's SMP performance was 99% better, but this way Linux Users won't automatically discount the results. IMHO, these are the kinds of tests and numbers FreeBSD advocates need. Travis Ruthenburg bjork bjork bjork travis@trickster.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 14:11:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB05150A5 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:11:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id RAA01378; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:11:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990315141102.23026@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:11:02 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Eric Hodel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Mail-Followup-To: Amancio Hasty , Eric Hodel , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990313230448.41158@orbit.flnet.com> <199903140716.XAA83216@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199903140716.XAA83216@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sat, Mar 13, 1999 at 11:16:59PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the subject of Re: The Matrix splash screen, Amancio Hasty stated: > Say,is there going to be an mpeg trailer 8) I wish, QT3 is all they have and I dont have a converter :( -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 14:11:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orbit.flnet.com (orbit.flnet.com [205.240.232.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E100E156EC for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:11:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from henrich@orbit.flnet.com) Received: (from henrich@localhost) by orbit.flnet.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id RAA01357; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:10:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990315141040.52803@orbit.flnet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:10:40 -0800 From: Charles Henrich To: Mark Ovens , Kris Kennaway Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Matrix splash screen Mail-Followup-To: Mark Ovens , Kris Kennaway , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <19990313140102.34440@orbit.flnet.com> <19990314131445.B269@marder-1.localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <19990314131445.B269@marder-1.localhost>; from Mark Ovens on Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 01:14:45PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-BETA_A X-PGP-Fingerprint: 1024/F7 FD C7 3A F5 6A 23 BF 76 C4 B8 C9 6E 41 A4 4F Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On the subject of Re: The Matrix splash screen, Mark Ovens stated: > Where is this image posted? I've checked http://www.baldwin.cx/splash and > http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich but can't find it. Its at www.baldwin.cx/splash now.. Its not as nice as the original hires imagery, but it is still pretty decent. -Crh Charles Henrich Manex Visual Effects henrich@flnet.com http://orbit.flnet.com/~henrich To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 15: 2:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B25714F29 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:02:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA11636; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:32:03 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id JAA18677; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:32:02 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990316093202.M429@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:32:02 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Andreas Klemm Cc: unknown@riverstyx.net, Gregory Sutter , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! References: <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> <19990315171320.Y429@lemis.com> <19990315190522.B3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990315190522.B3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:05:22PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 15 March 1999 at 19:05:22 +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 05:13:20PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> I tend to agree. I could accept the statement "Linux SMP gives less >> performance than FreeBSD SMP". I can't accept the statement "Linux >> SMP gives no performance improvement". > > Well, exactly that was the result. Try it yourself. If I got the same results, it might only indicate that I didn't have the Linux know-how to do better. I'd be afraid to publish my results as a categorical statement: I'd rather ask the Linux people "What am I doing wrong here?". Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 15:44:46 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC2A14D24 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:44:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04805 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:44:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:44:30 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: low end PC's and FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone tried getting FreeBSD to run on any of the ultra low-end PC's coming out now? I just saw one for $299 and might give it a try... http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C33742%2C00.html?dd.ne.txt.0315.02 [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/~licia/ ] [ Alias : Ladywolf] [ Telnet to o-o.org and log in as bbs ] [ ssh -l bbs -C o-o.org ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] main(){int num[4]={1768122732,762265697,1919889007,103};printf("%s\n",num);} To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 16: 0:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0781503C for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:00:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28740; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:55:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:55:08 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: Andreas Klemm Cc: "John S. Dyson" , joseph@randomnetworks.com, travis@trickster.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990315222949.C1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Andreas Klemm wrote: > To bring in some new flesh here ... I repeated the tests with Linux > Kernel release 2.2.3. And yes, the results are better ... Cool, I think this is a more realistic and fair comparission. > > But we are still 19% better ;-) Awesome! I think what would be neat now would be to look at different ways to "benchmark" the two. Maybe an identical Apache set up and then run something to beat up on it. Or an identical Samba setup and then beat up on it. These are two areas where Linux is getting a lot of attention, it would be nice to see how FreeBSD does in a head to head with Linux. Note: No matter what sort of benchmark scheme we come up with there will be away to argue that it's not accurate or useful. Well, I'd like to have something (read: better than nothing), and we can always refine the tests. Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 16:33: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC0315447 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:33:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22007; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd021926; Mon Mar 15 17:31:51 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11136; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:31:46 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903160031.RAA11136@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! To: travis@trickster.net (Travis Ruthenburg) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:31:46 +0000 (GMT) Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, dyson@iquest.net, joseph@randomnetworks.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903152150.QAA13458@trickster.net> from "Travis Ruthenburg" at Mar 15, 99 04:06:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >To bring in some new flesh here ... I repeated the tests with Linux > >Kernel release 2.2.3. And yes, the results are better ... > > > >But we are still 19% better ;-) > > That's great to hear. I'm sure everyone would be happier if FreeBSD's SMP > performance was 99% better, but this way Linux Users won't automatically > discount the results. IMHO, these are the kinds of tests and numbers > FreeBSD advocates need. If anyone is looking for a spin characterization, I suggest: FreeBSD SMP is approximately 120% of Linux SMP Or Linux SMP is only 84% as fast as FreeBSD SMP Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 16:45:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA9F14BD6 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:45:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA14624; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:44:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd014580; Mon Mar 15 17:44:39 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11578; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:44:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903160044.RAA11578@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:44:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, unknown@riverstyx.net, gsutter@pobox.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990316093202.M429@lemis.com> from "Greg Lehey" at Mar 16, 99 09:32:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Well, exactly that was the result. Try it yourself. > > If I got the same results, it might only indicate that I didn't have > the Linux know-how to do better. I'd be afraid to publish my results > as a categorical statement: I'd rather ask the Linux people "What am I > doing wrong here?". One amusing way for this to play out would be to have the correct results in hand, and ask the question "What am I doing wrong here?" anyway. At the very least, it will result in some consternation, and some Linux SMP boxes will find themselves running FreeBSD for some testing... if not longer. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 16:53: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B636115195 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:53:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA12327; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:22:37 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA19086; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:22:37 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990316112237.V429@lemis.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:22:37 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, unknown@riverstyx.net, gsutter@pobox.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! References: <19990316093202.M429@lemis.com> <199903160044.RAA11578@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199903160044.RAA11578@usr09.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 12:44:36AM +0000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 0:44:36 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> Well, exactly that was the result. Try it yourself. >> >> If I got the same results, it might only indicate that I didn't have >> the Linux know-how to do better. I'd be afraid to publish my results >> as a categorical statement: I'd rather ask the Linux people "What am I >> doing wrong here?". > > One amusing way for this to play out would be to have the correct > results in hand, and ask the question "What am I doing wrong here?" > anyway. Yes, I had rather thought of that too :-) > At the very least, it will result in some consternation, and some > Linux SMP boxes will find themselves running FreeBSD for some > testing... if not longer. 8-). Good point. There have been a lot of signals recently that Linux people are interested in FreeBSD. Put in the right manner, this kind of question could increase that interest. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 17:38:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6CFB015382 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:37:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 17572 invoked by uid 417); 16 Mar 1999 01:56:59 -0000 Received: from max1-ppp-48.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.106.53.227) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 01:56:59 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: , "Licia" Subject: RE: low end PC's and FreeBSD Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:35:33 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be6f4d$48f78ae0$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been running 3.1-Release on my Emachine at work for a month or so. It works great. I haven't had a problem and love the system. The performance is great when considering that the machine only cost $400US. I don't know about this new company in the article. I would suggest checking what hardware is in the machine first. Most super low end machines come with very generic and common components. That usually means FreeBSD will support it. Every thing in my Emachine except the software modem works great under FreeBSD. Even the on board PnP sound worked great after a quick kernel change. I would definitely recommend an Emachine to anyone on a budget. > > > Has anyone tried getting FreeBSD to run on any of the ultra low-end PC's > coming out now? I just saw one for $299 and might give it a try... > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C33742%2C00.html?dd.ne.txt.0315.02 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 18:23:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE246150BC for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:22:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 14700 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 02:22:18 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 02:22:18 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA42509; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:22:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903160222.VAA42509@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990315222949.C1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> from Andreas Klemm at "Mar 15, 99 10:29:49 pm" To: andreas@klemm.gtn.com (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:22:17 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@iquest.net, andreas@klemm.gtn.com, joseph@randomnetworks.com, travis@trickster.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm said: > > To bring in some new flesh here ... I repeated the tests with Linux > Kernel release 2.2.3. And yes, the results are better ... > > But we are still 19% better ;-) > 19% is alot more credible. I made the mistake of mentioning a 2-3X performance difference between FreeBSD and another OS -- and of course, it was difficult to show that result (and convince those who will disagree by default) without exposing a proprietary development setup. No matter how true the result was (and it was), convincing the receivers of the info can be difficult (and often not worth it.) FreeBSD is quite amazing, in that it is dependable in "end" conditions that many other OSes start acting "wierd." The BSD code legacy (for all of it's warts) is impressive. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 18:23:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CD5611511C for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:23:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 19578 invoked by alias); 16 Mar 1999 02:23:12 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 19510 invoked by uid 0); 16 Mar 1999 02:23:09 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 02:23:09 -0000 Message-ID: <36EDC08A.708FEE3D@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:23:06 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Benson Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, Licia Subject: Re: low end PC's and FreeBSD References: <000001be6f4d$48f78ae0$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [format recovered] Brad Benson wrote: > > Has anyone tried getting FreeBSD to run on any of the ultra low-end PC's > > coming out now? I just saw one for $299 and might give it a try... > > I've been running 3.1-Release on my Emachine at work for a month or so. It > works great. I haven't had a problem and love the system. The performance > is great when considering that the machine only cost $400US. I don't know > about this new company in the article. I would suggest checking what hardware > is in the machine first. Most super low end machines come with very generic > and common components. That usually means FreeBSD will support it. Every > thing in my Emachine except the software modem works great under FreeBSD. > Even the on board PnP sound worked great after a quick kernel change. I > would definitely recommend an Emachine to anyone on a budget. Checking the hardware is an extremely good point, Brad. One thing you have to keep in mind is what's in it. Whoever is selling the machine should be able to provide a component list and printed manuals (even if they're just leaflet data-sheets). If they don't, really get on their case about it. My general rule for package systems is to be wary of any component you can't find for sale or resale on it's own through PriceWatch[1], ComputerShopper[2], etc. The only exception to this is in-house parts, like with some of the large companies, who make their own motherboards. Also, the manufacturer should have a website or, at the very least, a toll free number. If they don't, you could be stuck with either broken hardware or a large phone bill. 1: PriceWatch www.pricewatch.com 2: ComputerShopper www.computershopper.com -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 18:32: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB521511C for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:32:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id DAA25601 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:31:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10Mj0V-000WyYC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:50:59 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html Date: 16 Mar 1999 02:50:56 +0100 Message-ID: <7ckde0$5v2$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Andreas Klemm wrote: > Hmm, i recompiled the Linux kernel. > Perhaps I repeat the test with an 2.2 kernel.... Look, it's *obvious* that the Linux box ran with a single CPU only. I have a hard time attributing your behavior to stupidity rather than malice. Compiling bash with "make -j2" vs. "make" on a dual PPro under Linux 2.0.35 cuts the real time almost in half. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de See another pointless homepage at . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 18:47:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D230F150A5 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:47:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 15114 invoked by alias); 16 Mar 1999 02:46:53 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 15060 invoked by uid 0); 16 Mar 1999 02:46:51 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 02:46:51 -0000 Message-ID: <36EDC618.87C3CA0@uswest.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:46:48 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jamie Bowden Cc: "Viren R. Shah" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? References: <199903122156.QAA16017@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jamie Bowden wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Viren R. Shah wrote: > > > > > Has anyone been able to view the new SW trailer on a FreeBSD box? The > > quicktime version uses codecs unsupported by xanim, and the mpg > > version that I found won't play sound when played thru mpeg_play. > > I have xanim compiled with all the extra objects to support indeo, > cinepak, and the other(forget what it's called), for 3.0. Works fine > here. Has anyone tried mpegtv? www.mpegtv.com/player.html -- dpilgrim@uswest.net ICQ: 29880099 gryph@mindless.com PGP DH/DSS key available If you're gonna build a house of cards, use the plastic coated kind Cuz I'll bet the homeowner's insurance won't cover flood damage To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 21:54: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F1614C3C for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:54:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA07068; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:53:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:53:31 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Nocturne Cc: Jamie Bowden , "Viren R. Shah" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: <36EDC618.87C3CA0@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org HI, On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Nocturne wrote: > Has anyone tried mpegtv? > > www.mpegtv.com/player.html I tried this today - there's a port (not committed yet - see GNATs for the PR) that I grabbed to try it. The port is ... messed up. It will try to fetch the wrong files - you need to remove the "-freebsd" from the various files to be fetched. Once that's done it built and installed okay. Not a big deal. You then need to manually set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH as it needs a special library not in /compat/linux. Again - not a big deal. Once it's compiled I tried playing the trailer mpeg. Ugh - the sound was horrific (read noise and no actual discernible sounds). I'm using the regular sound drivers (snd0 and its associates). I thought maybe it needed Luigi's sound code so I recompiled the kernel to use it and removed the snd0 and associates. Afterwards I noticed immediately that for some reason sound only came out of the right speaker. Playing WAV files w/ splay was also strange as it would play a WAV file through like 1.5 times instead of just once. It would also sometimes play the previous WAV when a new one was chosen. Hmmm... I mucked around w/ it a bit and couldn't get it to play through both speakers so I gave up, moved kernel.old back to kernel and rebooted. I don't think I ever actually tried the trailer w/ Luigi's code though. That was dumb. :-P If anyone has success w/ this I'd be happy to hear about it (or if anyone knows why I was having strange results w/ Luigi's code). Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 22:34:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 806A51509A for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:32:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA23306; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:31:38 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA14940; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:09:38 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:09:38 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Greg Lehey Cc: Andreas Klemm , unknown@riverstyx.net, Gregory Sutter , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990316070938.A14219@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990314184616.G20826@orcrist.mediacity.com> <19990315171320.Y429@lemis.com> <19990315190522.B3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990316093202.M429@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990316093202.M429@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 09:32:02AM +1030 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 09:32:02AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > If I got the same results, it might only indicate that I didn't have > the Linux know-how to do better. I'd be afraid to publish my results > as a categorical statement: I'd rather ask the Linux people "What am I > doing wrong here?". As you perhaps read in another mail ... the point was, that Linux 2.0.36 SMP capabilities are something for /dev/null. In FreeBSD we had immediately very good results. Seems to be, that in Linux the way was a bit harder or in the last minute they deceided not to include further stuff into the 2.0.x kernel. Now we are "only" 19% better comparing the 2.2.3 kernel with our 3.1-STABLE. This certainly sounds better for your ears ;-) -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms Linux 2.2.3 by 19% ;-) See : http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Mar 15 23: 1:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from csmd2.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (csmd2.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De [141.44.22.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9CFA15127 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:00:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jesse@mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De) Received: from knecht.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (knecht [141.44.21.3]) by csmd2.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19990; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:00:33 +0100 (MET) Received: (from jesse@localhost) by knecht.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id IAA13544; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:00:37 +0100 (MET) From: Roland Jesse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14062.404.872924.843335@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:00:36 +0100 (MET) To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, de-bsd-chat@DE.FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <199903160031.RAA11136@usr09.primenet.com> References: <199903152150.QAA13458@trickster.net> <199903160031.RAA11136@usr09.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.67 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: jesse@mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De X-Pgp-Fingerprint: 5D 08 5A E3 B4 AA 68 C1 FF 67 06 29 62 DD 9A D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > If anyone is looking for a spin characterization, I suggest: > > FreeBSD SMP is approximately 120% of Linux SMP > > Or > > Linux SMP is only 84% as fast as FreeBSD SMP The second sounds better. It is always difficult to have something being > 100% of anything and it is just nice to have FreeBSD being the OS to compare to, if you know what I mean. Roland To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 4:55:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat199.176.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.199.176]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82E315519 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:55:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA44135 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:55:39 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:55:39 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Haven't seen anyone mention anything about this...anyone know more? http://dragon.acadiau.ca/~034790g/newsletter.htm Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 5:37:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guerilla.foo.bar (hennen32s.iserlohn.netsurf.de [194.195.194.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5389E15179 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:37:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sas@schell.de) Received: (qmail 1939 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 14:37:39 +0100 Received: from innernet (masked all received headers); 16 Mar 1999 14:37:39 +0100 Received: (from sas@localhost) by flaubert.foo.bar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03215; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:37:00 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:37:00 +0100 From: Sascha Schumann To: Andreas Klemm Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html Message-ID: <19990316143700.A3066@schell.de> References: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990315212538.A15607@schell.de> <19990315222619.A1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990315222619.A1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:26:19PM +0100 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.2-ac7 alpha Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:26:19PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 09:25:38PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:10:27PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:36:02PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > > > > > Perhaps I repeat the test with an 2.2 kernel.... > > > > Yes, and please stop spreading FUD. It looks rather narrow-minded to be > > proud of such a comparison. > > Look at the new values ;-) Satisfied ?! ;-) > > -- > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! Well, the numbers have changed (^^^ not). But the method is still insane. You are comparing not the same process, because there are numerous things which differ (e.g. libraries, compiler version, toolchain). The only claim I would derive from such a test would be that "you can build your programs faster on FreeBSD." Sigh. Btw, SuSE 6.1 with kernel 2.2.3, KDE 1.1 and GNOME 1.0 will be shipped in April (international version will come out in May). -- Regards, Sascha Schumann | Consultant | finger sas@schell.de | for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 5:58: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E332414E51 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:57:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za) Received: (qmail 24761 invoked by uid 1003); 16 Mar 1999 15:58:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:58:05 +0000 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Andreas Klemm Cc: Sascha Schumann , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html Message-ID: <19990316155805.A24384@rucus.ru.ac.za> References: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:10:27PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon 1999-03-15 (19:10), Andreas Klemm wrote: > > And no, compiling bash is not a real-life application. At least not, > > if you do not spend your whole time compiling and creating silly > > "benchmarks." > > Hmm, i recompiled the Linux kernel. The question being, of course, whether your build tools are all running with the same options, and with the same versions of the tools, and so forth. No use comparing a "cc" versus a "cc -O2 -pipe", after all. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 6: 7:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guerilla.foo.bar (hennen32s.iserlohn.netsurf.de [194.195.194.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 287F014D1E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:07:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sas@schell.de) Received: (qmail 2201 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 15:07:49 +0100 Received: from innernet (masked all received headers); 16 Mar 1999 15:07:49 +0100 Received: (from sas@localhost) by flaubert.foo.bar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07004 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:07:15 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:07:15 +0100 From: Sascha Schumann To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.2-ac7 alpha Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 05:13:20PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > I tend to agree. I could accept the statement "Linux SMP gives less > performance than FreeBSD SMP". I can`t accept the statement "Linux > SMP gives no performance improvement". Well, I could accept it, if it would be technically correct. But Mr Klemm's claims are simply invalid. I probably do not need to reiterate on that fact. Alternatively, I will claim that Linux is 1200% faster, since I can calculate DES keys at a rate of 10M/sec on my Linux box (Alpha PC164UX, 633MHz) and only 0.8M/sec on my FreeBSD box (Intel Pentium, 166MHz) (yes, it is non sense). > The first thing that came into > my mind was "he must have made a mistake". Other possibilities are > that make -j doesn`t work right on Linux, or that Linux SMP doesn`t > even the load as well as FreeBSD does (for example, some MP systems > put all children in the same CPU). Linux distributes the load across the various CPUs. If you want to know which system scales better for your needs, test it directly with your application. Do not rely on someone who does not even tell you how he produced his results. -- Regards, Sascha Schumann | Consultant | finger sas@schell.de | for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 6:24: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0D414E00 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:23:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA04910; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:23:54 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36EE651B.D7EFAD7A@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:05:15 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: 1998 Bugs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I notice that we had almost as much bugs reported through send-pr on 1998 as we had on all previous years together... I can think of a few explantions... * 3.0-RELEASE with the kld and elf move? * number of users has been increasing at a very fast rate? * more committers -> more new committers -> more bugs? * quality has decreased? * size has increased? * someone managed to get the users to user send-pr at last? * all of the above? * none of the above? * others? So, I guess the question is... will we have as much new PRs this year (~5000)? Will we actually double again? On a more serious note (yup, the above was not quite serious), this vast increase in the number of new PRs will be straining us. Should we have a new type of contributor, in addition to our regular doc's people, ports' people and src's people (did I miss anyone?), the PR's people? (No, Brett, I don't mean PR as in press, but as in Problem Report ;) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "What happened?" "It moved, sir!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 6:24: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C4915092 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:24:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id XAA04929; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:23:57 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36EE65D0.FF70DD6C@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:08:16 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: More about PRs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And on a very tongue-in-cheek mode, I notice a lot of _assigned_ PRs dating back to 95 and 96! Maybe these people have KILL filters for the regular PR reminders? :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "What happened?" "It moved, sir!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 6:31:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186EE15247 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:31:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA07486 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:31:11 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:31:11 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Enough already! All the linux fans that have come on this list claiming that Andreas' numbers are "technically incorrect" or "simply invalid" please do myself, the rest of the FreeBSD community that is tuned in to -chat, and the Linux community a favor. If you feel the tests were unfair/invalid/... then install FreeBSD SMP on one of your Linux SMP machines, develop a set of "valid" test criteria, and publish it and the resulting numbers. Barring not being able to spare a machine, then develop a detailed test specification for Andreas to run. If he doesn't do it or doesn't have the time then post it here or better yet on freebsd-smp and I'll tear down one of my SMP boxes and run it for you (us). Quit all these "my toast is crispier than your's" arguments. Face the facts. You don't have them (the facts) and religious arguments won't produce them! Put your OS where your mouth is and give us something that we can develop "valid" numbers with. No matter the outcome, we really want to see the results. :-) -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 6:31:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C8215484 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:31:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23282; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:31:14 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA04926; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:31:12 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:31:12 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Alex Zepeda Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Concerning PC Mags pitiful mention of FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990316153112.B4774@bitbox.follo.net> References: <3.0.6.32.19990306102112.007ada60@we.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alex Zepeda on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:33:32PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 12:33:32PM -0800, Alex Zepeda wrote: > > Ok, this is concerning the ariticle in PC Magazine's March edition (Vol. > > 18, No. 6 Marche 23, 1999). To make a long story short, they had like too > > articles on Linux and the GPL. The first one was some editors note, then > > the other was a full blown Unix timeline, installation guide, and > > comparisons between 4 different distributions. > > > > Well actually, they called it more of an "Open Source" aritcle. Not just a > > Linux article. > > I finally got around to reading that horrible article (a URL was just > posted to /.). Yich. Please, everyone, it's time for some Brett style > advocacy. These guys can't even figure out what the acronym KDE stands > for (hint: it's NOT Kool Desktop Environment). Kool Desktop Environment was the working name of KDE during initial development. That's what the acronym stood for _then_, at least. I don't think I've seen any other expansions, beyond calling it 'K Desktop Environment', which hardly seems like a full expansion. What would you have them put there? Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 7: 9:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com (unknown [206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC5815595 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:09:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22709; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:08:49 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022699; Tue, 16 Mar 99 10:08:20 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15881; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:08:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA23396; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:08:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:08:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903161508.KAA23396@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: Brett Taylor Cc: Nocturne , Jamie Bowden , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: References: <36EDC618.87C3CA0@uswest.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>>>> "Brett" == Brett Taylor writes: Brett> HI, Brett> On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Nocturne wrote: >> Has anyone tried mpegtv? >> >> www.mpegtv.com/player.html Brett> I tried this today - there's a port (not committed yet - see Brett> GNATs for the PR) that I grabbed to try it. Brett> The port is ... messed up. It will try to fetch the wrong files - you Brett> need to remove the "-freebsd" from the various files to be Brett> fetched. Once that's done it built and installed okay. Not a Brett> big deal. Brett> You then need to manually set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH as it needs Brett> a special library not in /compat/linux. Again - not a big Brett> deal. I just tried this a couple of days ago, and after making the same changes to the port, it worked well enough except for one annoyance -- it only plays for a certain amount of time (it's demoware). I had to view the trailer in 3 parts. :-) Brett> associates. Afterwards I noticed immediately that for some Brett> reason sound only came out of the right speaker. Playing WAV Umm..the app seems to have the balance set to the left speaker. Did you try setting the balance to midway between the left and right? Brett> Brett Viren -- Viren R. Shah "Design is the successful application of constraints until only an unique product is left" -- Richard W. Pew (from "The Design of Everday Things" by Don Norman) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 7:14:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A5C15384 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:14:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14224; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:13:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:13:57 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: "Viren R. Shah" Cc: Nocturne , Jamie Bowden , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: <199903161508.KAA23396@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Viren R. Shah wrote: > I just tried this a couple of days ago, and after making the same > changes to the port, it worked well enough except for one annoyance -- > it only plays for a certain amount of time (it's demoware). I had to > view the trailer in 3 parts. :-) The software is free for FreeBSD and Linux according to the readme so it should be (didn't check this) easy to get a key (or whatever it needs) to avoid this. > Brett> associates. Afterwards I noticed immediately that for some > Brett> reason sound only came out of the right speaker. Playing WAV > > Umm..the app seems to have the balance set to the left speaker. Did > you try setting the balance to midway between the left and right? I actually noticed this while using splay to play a WAV file, not while playing the trailer w/ mpegtv. Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 7:20:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FEC114C8C for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:20:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA25168; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:19:42 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA05266; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:19:41 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:19:41 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs Message-ID: <19990316161941.E4774@bitbox.follo.net> References: <36EE651B.D7EFAD7A@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <36EE651B.D7EFAD7A@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 11:05:15PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 11:05:15PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > I notice that we had almost as much bugs reported through send-pr on > 1998 as we had on all previous years together... > > I can think of a few explantions... > > * 3.0-RELEASE with the kld and elf move? > * number of users has been increasing at a very fast rate? > * more committers -> more new committers -> more bugs? > * quality has decreased? > * size has increased? > * someone managed to get the users to user send-pr at last? > * all of the above? > * none of the above? > * others? More people running -current and submitting PRs against that instead of mailing current@FreeBSD.org, because current@FreeBSD.org has become a pit, just like -hackers used to be. > So, I guess the question is... will we have as much new PRs this > year (~5000)? Will we actually double again? Probably the latter. > On a more serious note (yup, the above was not quite serious), this > vast increase in the number of new PRs will be straining us. Should > we have a new type of contributor, in addition to our regular doc's > people, ports' people and src's people (did I miss anyone?), the > PR's people? I think that would be a good idea. My take on this is that we should have a team of people that take responsibility for handling PRs, and that each incoming PR should be assigned to one of the people on the team. That person has the responsibility for handling the PR *in some fashion*. This could be * To commit a patch * To track down the correct person for fixing this PR and transferring the responsibility * To reply to the person that originally sent the PR, attempting to get hold of more information * To decline a suggestion for change * To identify this is a correct PR, stamp it with 'correct problem report', and put it on active status. The clue is just that the person does _something_ about the PR, instead of leaving both the PR and the person sending it high 'n dry, with no response at all from FreeBSD. Technically, I would implement the above scheme as a two-part system: 1. A cronjob that goes through all new PRs every night, and assigns them to people from a list of PR tag team members. (Round-robin fashion, of course). 2. A small setuid program for adding and removing people from said list. I'm willing to be on such a team if 10 other committers also are - if I get 10 volunteers, I'll write up the code. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 7:32:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from assurance.rstcorp.com (unknown [206.29.49.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE1C1549C for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:32:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from vshah@rstcorp.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by assurance.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23006; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:31:49 -0500 Received: from sandbox.rstcorp.com(206.29.49.63) by assurance.rstcorp.com via smap (V2.0) id xma022999; Tue, 16 Mar 99 10:31:44 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.rstcorp.com (jabberwock [206.29.49.98]) by sandbox.rstcorp.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16351; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:31:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from vshah@localhost) by jabberwock.rstcorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id KAA23918; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:31:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:31:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903161531.KAA23918@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> From: "Viren R. Shah" To: Brett Taylor Cc: Nocturne , Jamie Bowden , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Starwars trailer? In-Reply-To: References: <199903161508.KAA23396@jabberwock.rstcorp.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: "Viren R. Shah" X-Face: )~y+U*K:yzjz{q<5lzpI_SVef'U.])9g[C9`1N@]u3,MHY7f*l7C)[_NjM4y4K8$uIUh|\u (K&&HS6,M!61&GMTk'mqmB/Qg]]X}"?TzsFl]"2v!bl8']dma.:^IY^a[lbOI>U:b<~FyK3q-p{HmZ mn~g.`~BE!5{2D:}Yi+\_KkWe?XaHj9$ko1k8iKLYv5*_2c8"G=?Up[}hn+7RNM(bzBZ_wWk6!Pf&B ?3Tcm7M7B~W%K/I0aX3]*=jP?aM]H6HBPT`oLk+0n^_;N\2\%|Rhy;p}34Q.jEsM\qtnxcm;ag%Nq Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>>>> "Brett" == Brett Taylor writes: Brett> The software is free for FreeBSD and Linux according to the Brett> readme so it should be (didn't check this) easy to get a key Brett> (or whatever it needs) to avoid this. I thought this was just for mtvp, not mtv. Brett> I actually noticed this while using splay to play a WAV file, not while Brett> playing the trailer w/ mpegtv. I started using the following command line with mtvp: mtvp -d3 -aq2 -ac0 -Wr -g1.5 ~/C2menaceB.mpg A little grainy, but I gues I can stand that. Of course, after seeing the QT3 version of the trailer, this pales in comparison. Brett> Brett Viren -- Viren R. Shah "Design is the successful application of constraints until only an unique product is left" -- Richard W. Pew (from "The Design of Everday Things" by Don Norman) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 8: 1:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953D41514E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:00:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10MwGL-000Ep9-0C; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:00:13 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA03816; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:00:08 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10742; Tue, 16 Mar 99 16:00:07 GMT Message-Id: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:59:43 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Haven't seen anyone mention anything about this...anyone know more? > > http://dragon.acadiau.ca/~034790g/newsletter.htm > I haven't read this particular article, but I do know that every PIII has a unique ID number burned into the chip. This gives each PC a unique identity. One proposed use for it is to avoid credit card fraud when buying on the 'net (your CC number must match the PIII ID, which I guess means you can only place orders from one PC :-/ ). Apparently civil rights types and other "concerned" people are up in arms over it, claiming it will allow Big Brother to watch what you do and where you go on the Internet. In response to this Intel say they will ship the chips with the feature turned off. Apparently it can be turned off by software, but only turned on again by power-cycling the chip. I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. The company I work for uses this (on Suns) to run the licencing for our software. On PC's we need to use a dongle. > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy > Systems Administrator @ hub.org > primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 8: 4: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F359414F06; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:04:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id RAA02072; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:03:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Eivind Eklund Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs References: <36EE651B.D7EFAD7A@newsguy.com> <19990316161941.E4774@bitbox.follo.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Mar 1999 17:03:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:19:41 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 26 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund writes: > I think that would be a good idea. My take on this is that we should > have a team of people that take responsibility for handling PRs, and > that each incoming PR should be assigned to one of the people on the > team. That person has the responsibility for handling the PR *in some > fashion*. This could be How many times have I suggested this (and even discussed it with you over a glass of single malt)? :) > 1. A cronjob that goes through all new PRs every night, and assigns > them to people from a list of PR tag team members. (Round-robin > fashion, of course). ...and mails the PR to that person. But I'd feel more comfortable if PRs were assigned the minute they were filed (which requires modifying GNATS, but shouldn't be too much work) > I'm willing to be on such a team if 10 other committers also are - if > I get 10 volunteers, I'll write up the code. ACK! DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 8: 5:58 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86CE11530A for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA23416; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:05:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:05:31 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs In-Reply-To: <36EE651B.D7EFAD7A@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How about another theory? IMHO FreeBSD hasn't gotten worse in 1998. What we have done is increased the number of new FreeBSD users. With increased exposure we find new problems and many times just questions that need to be resolved that either we haven't experienced before or have and not said anything about it. You mentioned the number 5000. Here's some interesting facts. $ query-pr -q -a 19980101 | wc -l 5197 $ query-pr -q -a 19980101 -c ports | wc -l 2534 $ query-pr -q -a 19980101 -c ports -x | wc -l 336 $ query-pr -q -a 19980101 -c ports -x -r freebsd-ports | wc -l 218 $ query-pr -q -a 19980101 -x | wc -l 1364 What these numbers mean: 1) 5197 new PRs since January 1, 1998 2) 2534 half of those were for ports 3) 336 this is the number left open 4) 218 this is the number not assigned to anyone 5) 3883 or 74% of the PRs opened in 1998 are now closed # I notice that we had almost as much bugs reported through send-pr on # 1998 as we had on all previous years together... # # I can think of a few explantions... # # * 3.0-RELEASE with the kld and elf move? # # * number of users has been increasing at a very fast rate? # # * more committers -> more new committers -> more bugs? # # * quality has decreased? # # * size has increased? # # * someone managed to get the users to user send-pr at last? # # * all of the above? # # * none of the above? # # * others? # # # So, I guess the question is... will we have as much new PRs this # year (~5000)? Will we actually double again? # # On a more serious note (yup, the above was not quite serious), this # vast increase in the number of new PRs will be straining us. Should # we have a new type of contributor, in addition to our regular doc's # people, ports' people and src's people (did I miss anyone?), the # PR's people? (No, Brett, I don't mean PR as in press, but as in # Problem Report ;) # # -- # Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) # dcs@newsguy.com # dcs@freebsd.org # # "What happened?" # "It moved, sir!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 8:22:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80AAD14F51; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:22:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA10889; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:22 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:22:22 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Eivind Eklund , "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 16 Mar 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: # > 1. A cronjob that goes through all new PRs every night, and assigns # > them to people from a list of PR tag team members. (Round-robin # > fashion, of course). # # ...and mails the PR to that person. But I'd feel more comfortable if # PRs were assigned the minute they were filed (which requires modifying # GNATS, but shouldn't be too much work) The part of GNATS that un-queues new PRs is done now from a cron job that runs every 10 minutes. It should be a trivial matter to write a wrapper script to do what you are talking about. And yes I'm volunteering to write it since I probably know as much about GNATS as anyone and happen to be its administrator (along with Poul). All we need is to figure out what exactly it is we need. # > I'm willing to be on such a team if 10 other committers also are - if # > I get 10 volunteers, I'll write up the code. # # ACK! I'll help out too. Though I don't need to be a part of a team to work on PRs. As it has been said many times before the PRs are out there, just grab one (or a bunch :), and run with them. # DES # -- # Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 8:48:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B4AA8153A8 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:48:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Message-Id: <199903161652.LAA27020@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Received: forwarded by SMTP 1.5.2. Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by marsellus.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA20896; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:48:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:48:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Mark Ovens Cc: The Hermit Hacker , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-Reply-To: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > Apparently civil rights types and other "concerned" people are up in > arms over it, claiming it will allow Big Brother to watch what you do > and where you go on the Internet. In response to this Intel say they > will ship the chips with the feature turned off. Apparently it can be > turned off by software, but only turned on again by power-cycling the > chip. > > I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it > like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry > Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the > prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. I can change my hostid on a sun. Can you change the serial number on an intel? Jamie Bowden -- If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 9: 0:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C18915294 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA23402; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:50 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990316095822.00987460@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:59:45 -0700 To: The Hermit Hacker , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org A LOT more. See http://www.zdnet.com/zdhelp/stories/main/0,5594,2214831,00.html (and especially the Talkback at the end, which contains updates). --Brett Glass At 08:55 AM 3/16/99 -0400, The Hermit Hacker wrote: > >Haven't seen anyone mention anything about this...anyone know more? > >http://dragon.acadiau.ca/~034790g/newsletter.htm > > >Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy >Systems Administrator @ hub.org >primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 9: 3: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.249.129.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568A5152CB for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:03:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA05399 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:02:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199903161702.JAA05399@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Matrix Trailer pointer at http://www.freebsd.org??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:02:42 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't understand why there is no Matrix Trailer pointer or better yet the Matrix Trailer at http://www.freebsd.org?? 8) It would be most cool to make a poster out of the Matrix/FreeBSD splash screen . Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 9: 4: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat199.176.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.199.176]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6461538D for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA46139; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:00:20 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:00:20 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Mark Ovens Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-Reply-To: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Worked on Solaris/x86 also: themis:/var/log> hostid 1ff199af themis:/var/log> uname -a SunOS themis 5.6 Generic i86pc i386 i86pc On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > > Haven't seen anyone mention anything about this...anyone know more? > > > > http://dragon.acadiau.ca/~034790g/newsletter.htm > > > > I haven't read this particular article, but I do know that every PIII > has a unique ID number burned into the chip. This gives each PC a > unique identity. One proposed use for it is to avoid credit card fraud > when buying on the 'net (your CC number must match the PIII ID, which > I guess means you can only place orders from one PC :-/ ). > > Apparently civil rights types and other "concerned" people are up in > arms over it, claiming it will allow Big Brother to watch what you do > and where you go on the Internet. In response to this Intel say they > will ship the chips with the feature turned off. Apparently it can be > turned off by software, but only turned on again by power-cycling the > chip. > > I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it > like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry > Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the > prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. > > The company I work for uses this (on Suns) to run the licencing for > our software. On PC's we need to use a dongle. > > > > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy > > Systems Administrator @ hub.org > > primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > -- > FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org > My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov > _______________________________________________________________ > Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK > CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry > mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 9: 4:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ontario.mooseriver.com (ontario.mooseriver.com [208.138.31.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528C815306 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:03:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@ontario.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by ontario.mooseriver.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) id JAA26812; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:02:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:02:57 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: announce@bafug.org Subject: Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs Page Message-ID: <19990316090257.A26800@ontario.mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org San Francisco Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) has put up a web page of employers in the San Francisco Bay Area who are looking for employees, permanent or contact, who have FreeBSD skills. The URL is : http://www.bafug.org/BayAreaJobs.html Employers: The emphasis here is FreeBSD. The job you are advertising should have FreeBSD as a major component of the job. If you wish to advertise a job please send the URL to your web page with the job listings to jgrosch@MooseRiver.com. Employees: When contacting these employers please tell them that you saw this job listing on the Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs page. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.1 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 9: 4:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8417F1535A for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:03:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA14377; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:01:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:59:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Pedro Fernando Giffuni" To: Sascha Schumann Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html In-Reply-To: <19990316143700.A3066@schell.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > Well, the numbers have changed (^^^ not). But the method is still insane. You > are comparing not the same process, because there are numerous things which > differ (e.g. libraries, compiler version, toolchain). The only claim I would > derive from such a test would be that "you can build your programs faster on > FreeBSD." Sigh. > "Applications like compilers run much faster in FreeBSD SMP than in any Linux" Better?? Note that 19% is really much, IMHO. cheers, Pedro To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 10:39:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F95914EF7 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:39:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA26265; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:39:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd026239; Tue Mar 16 11:39:02 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09895; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:39:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903161839.LAA09895@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! To: sas@schell.de (Sascha Schumann) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:39:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> from "Sascha Schumann" at Mar 16, 99 03:07:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Alternatively, I will claim that Linux is 1200% faster, since I can calculate > DES keys at a rate of 10M/sec on my Linux box (Alpha PC164UX, 633MHz) and only > 0.8M/sec on my FreeBSD box (Intel Pentium, 166MHz) (yes, it is non sense). He used identical hardware, and it's not his fault that the SMP claims for the Linux kernel were disabled by default. He quickly posted revised numbers that showed Linux to be fully 84% as fast as FreeBSD on the same hardware. IMO, both FreeBSD and Linux SMP architectures are, to be blunt, missing and/or childish attempts at SMP. I think the 16% discrepancy (19% from the how-much-faster instead of the how-much-slower perspective) could easily be made up by Linux fixing it's scheduler and VM problems, and that that would translate to faster UP performance for Linux, as well as better interactive response. Lest you think I play favorites, I also think the SVR4 and Solaris SMP architectures are silly for claiming a scaling limit of 4-8 CPU's, since literature dating back to 1992 clearly demonstrates how to address these issues. The main SMP competitive failur for FreeBSD and Linux is the lack of a unified central architectural plan, with a roadmap going forward that addresses the SMP issue, in toto. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 10:40: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E06F151B6; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id DAA08524; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:39:58 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36EE9750.AB88915E@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:39:28 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs References: <36EE651B.D7EFAD7A@newsguy.com> <19990316161941.E4774@bitbox.follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > > I think that would be a good idea. My take on this is that we should > have a team of people that take responsibility for handling PRs, and > that each incoming PR should be assigned to one of the people on the > team. That person has the responsibility for handling the PR *in some > fashion*. This could be > * To commit a patch > * To track down the correct person for fixing this PR and transferring > the responsibility > * To reply to the person that originally sent the PR, attempting to > get hold of more information > * To decline a suggestion for change > * To identify this is a correct PR, stamp it with 'correct problem > report', and put it on active status. > > The clue is just that the person does _something_ about the PR, > instead of leaving both the PR and the person sending it high 'n dry, > with no response at all from FreeBSD. That was my general feeling. > Technically, I would implement the above scheme as a two-part system: > 1. A cronjob that goes through all new PRs every night, and assigns > them to people from a list of PR tag team members. (Round-robin > fashion, of course). > 2. A small setuid program for adding and removing people from said > list. > > I'm willing to be on such a team if 10 other committers also are - if > I get 10 volunteers, I'll write up the code. I'd volunteer, too. There is a few problems we have to plan for, though. * How do we deal with "disappearing" volunteers? * How do we deal with volunteers that lagged too much and then discover they won't be able to deal with the problems assigned to them? * Life happens; people should belong to this list if they have *the time* to handle it. That means people should be relatively free to bug out when they feel they won't be able to handle the load. And that means there will be times when there are too few volunteers, which would be swamped with PRs. I suggest "hard limits" on the number of PRs per volunteer to be handed out each day. When the limit is reached, the PRs get queued until the next day. Or any number or variants on the above. Anyway, we have to deal with the general problem of having the person to which a PR was assigned not handle it. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "What happened?" "It moved, sir!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 10:40:12 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2E7151D3 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:40:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN) id DAA08530; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 03:40:03 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <36EE9914.B4359257@newsguy.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:47:00 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Price wrote: > > How about another theory? IMHO FreeBSD hasn't gotten worse > in 1998. What we have done is increased the number of new > FreeBSD users. With increased exposure we find new problems > and many times just questions that need to be resolved that > either we haven't experienced before or have and not said > anything about it. > # * number of users has been increasing at a very fast rate? I covered that base. :-) The suggestions about decreased quality were tongue-in-cheek. Mostly, we have a few issues causing a lot of commotion, like PCMCIA and installation problems. You these few issues away, however important they may be to some people, and you still have a fully functional and rock-stable OS. The serious note about the problem that seems to be mounting concerning the geometric (exponential?) increase in the number of PRs is still valid, though. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org "What happened?" "It moved, sir!" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 10:46:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C504614C8C for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16991; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:46:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd016851; Tue Mar 16 11:46:11 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA10526; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:46:11 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903161846.LAA10526@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? To: marko@uk.radan.com (Mark Ovens) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:46:10 +0000 (GMT) Cc: scrappy@hub.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> from "Mark Ovens" at Mar 16, 99 03:59:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it > like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry > Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the > prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. It is trivial to change the hostid on any Sun machine, even those without LANCE ethernet chips. In general, hostid has, in the past, referred to the primary IP address of the machine, for many (most?) manufacturers. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 10:58: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2EA77151ED for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 22145 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 18:57:41 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 18:57:41 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA08450; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:57:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903161857.NAA08450@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <199903161839.LAA09895@usr06.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Mar 16, 99 06:39:00 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:57:40 -0500 (EST) Cc: sas@schell.de, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said: > > The main SMP competitive failur for FreeBSD and Linux is the lack > of a unified central architectural plan, with a roadmap going > forward that addresses the SMP issue, in toto. > Yes. An SMP architecture is a more specific design than UP. A proper SMP design can be degraded into a reasonable UP design. However, a purely UP design (and excellent on at that) doesn't necessarily translate cleanly to a supurb SMP design. The lowest levels should be redesigned (from the ground up), and then the old stuff can be bolted back on. As time goes on, the old stuff can migrate to a more SMP optimal design. The networking code is probably too much to quickly change, but the VM code is an excellent candidate to be one of the first truely SMP subsystems. With ALC (and the VM support team), there is a *good* chance of it being done properly. Starting with a UP kernel, thinking of "enhancing it", as opposed to having a proper plan and target will doom the project to continual rework in order to approach reasonable behavior. (Defining "reasonable" as a design that requires few excuses about tradeoffs.) IMO, a LL SMP infrastructure needs to be defined (and I am being lax at it right now). After that infrastucture is defined, then the subsystem interfaces to that structure become easier to develop. The key is to both avoid hodge-podge design, while having a smooth transition to the future. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11: 0:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CD121524B; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:00:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr06.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06099; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr06.primenet.com(206.165.6.206) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd006072; Tue Mar 16 11:59:55 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr06.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11964; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:59:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903161859.LAA11964@usr06.primenet.com> Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs To: eivind@FreeBSD.ORG (Eivind Eklund) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:59:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dcs@newsguy.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990316161941.E4774@bitbox.follo.net> from "Eivind Eklund" at Mar 16, 99 04:19:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I think that would be a good idea. My take on this is that we should > have a team of people that take responsibility for handling PRs, and > that each incoming PR should be assigned to one of the people on the > team. That person has the responsibility for handling the PR *in some > fashion*. Seneca the elder, 4th century BC Roman Stoic philosopher said: "Never substitute activity for action." I think that any strategy that relies on "*making* something happen" will inevitably fail to produce desirable results. > This could be > * To commit a patch > * To track down the correct person for fixing this PR and transferring > the responsibility > * To reply to the person that originally sent the PR, attempting to > get hold of more information > * To decline a suggestion for change I believe that this will be the most frequent result, even when the problem is, in fact, a real bug. This is the typical outcome from any type of crisis management technique. > * To identify this is a correct PR, stamp it with 'correct problem > report', and put it on active status. > > The clue is just that the person does _something_ about the PR, > instead of leaving both the PR and the person sending it high 'n dry, > with no response at all from FreeBSD. I think the original thread had more promise. What is needed is due dilligence in a root cause analysis for the phenomenon. If it is an increase in users, good. If it is an increase in the rate at which bugs occur, then you need to reexamine the process by which code containing bugs is permitted to be committed. Personally, I believe that this will ultimately boil down to a lack of coherent architectural vision, uniformly applied. Whatever the reason, the next stage is a root cause analysis, not a sweeping of PR's under the "not a problem" or "postponed" or "let's assign it to John Dyson, even though he's no longer with the project" rugs. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11: 2:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D7D3F1504D for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:02:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 26837 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 19:02:31 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 19:02:31 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA08459; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:02:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903161902.OAA08459@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! In-Reply-To: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> from Sascha Schumann at "Mar 16, 99 03:07:15 pm" To: sas@schell.de (Sascha Schumann) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:02:32 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sascha Schumann said: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 05:13:20PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > I tend to agree. I could accept the statement "Linux SMP gives less > > performance than FreeBSD SMP". I can`t accept the statement "Linux > > SMP gives no performance improvement". > > Well, I could accept it, if it would be technically correct. But Mr Klemm's > claims are simply invalid. I probably do not need to reiterate on that fact. > > Alternatively, I will claim that Linux is 1200% faster, since I can calculate > DES keys at a rate of 10M/sec on my Linux box (Alpha PC164UX, 633MHz) and only > 0.8M/sec on my FreeBSD box (Intel Pentium, 166MHz) (yes, it is non sense). > Mr. Klemm is using the same hardware in the test, so your comment doesn't compare. He also redid the experiment with a better comparative test using a more "correct" version of Linux, and the released version of FreeBSD still came out ahead. Frankly, I don't think that 19% is enough faster, and hope that FreeBSD improves more soon. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11:12:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C847F14DA1 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:12:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA24847; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:11:39 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990316120025.03f3e4a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:11:34 -0700 To: Terry Lambert , sas@schell.de (Sascha Schumann) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903161839.LAA09895@usr06.primenet.com> References: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:39 PM 3/16/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >The main SMP competitive failur for FreeBSD and Linux is the lack >of a unified central architectural plan, with a roadmap going >forward that addresses the SMP issue, in toto. Agreed. BeOS is actually the best in this regard -- far better than NT. It does very well at allocating resources and processing power while maintaining reasonable response times. Personally, I've always been an advocate of AMP (asymmetrical multiprocessing). I see no reason to believe that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, or that (given that current CPU architectures are not designed for efficient context switching) it truly pays to toss processes around between CPUs like a football. I'd rather see one or more processors devoted exclusively to real-time tasks and I/O (kernel-level stuff) while others handle tasks in which less determinism is required (userland stuff). The two classes of processors could run different styles of kernels for optimal performance. Yes, there could be multiple processors in each class; it might be especially helpful, in particular, if multiple CPUs could handle unrelated userland tasks. But these could be coupled more loosely, because they wouldn't have to deal with low-level system management tasks. Hence, they wouldn't butt heads as often as they do in current SMP architectures. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11:16:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2972E1537E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 11674 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 19:16:15 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 19:16:15 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id OAA08468; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:16:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903161916.OAA08468@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html In-Reply-To: <19990316143700.A3066@schell.de> from Sascha Schumann at "Mar 16, 99 02:37:00 pm" To: sas@schell.de (Sascha Schumann) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:16:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: andreas@klemm.gtn.com, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sascha Schumann said: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:26:19PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 09:25:38PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:10:27PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:36:02PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > > > > > > > Perhaps I repeat the test with an 2.2 kernel.... > > > > > > Yes, and please stop spreading FUD. It looks rather narrow-minded to be > > > proud of such a comparison. > > > > Look at the new values ;-) Satisfied ?! ;-) > > > > -- > > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > > Well, the numbers have changed (^^^ not). But the method is still insane. You > are comparing not the same process, because there are numerous things which > differ (e.g. libraries, compiler version, toolchain). The only claim I would > derive from such a test would be that "you can build your programs faster on > FreeBSD." Sigh. > That is one of the things that we use FreeBSD at work for: compile engine. To build code for other OSes. I disagree with your usage of the word "insane". At worst the comparison is "ill-advised" to publicize. At best it shows the FreeBSD developers that FreeBSD is reasonably competitive with Linux in the SMP arena. In no way can such comparisons be used to proclaim that FreeBSD is always "better" than Linux. Geesh, the measurement doesn't even claim that FreeBSD is always faster, but when someone claims that it is sometimes faster (with disclosure of the circumstance, in good faith), there is a furor over it. It is that reason why I try to avoid talking about the relative performance of the OSes. In fact, by talking about the fact that FreeBSD is faster, it gives hints to the competition. It is NOT a good idea to help the competition, when that competition automatically flames or is inflammatory when a positive comparison about FreeBSD is announced. Firstly, your choice of the word "insane" is inflammatory. Secondly, if the libraries, compiler version and toolchain on Linux distributions are slower, then the distributors of such should consider that as a challenge. If it is the kernel that is slower, then that should be considered as a challenge (or at least a datapoint.) By telling the "competition" (which messages like what I am responding to show the nature of such) how and why their product is inferior in certain areas, it helps them. There is no value to help people with the assets of a project, who don't have good will towards that project. Luckily, the subtile side-effects of how software is written are not always easily derived from source code. (Source-code isn't necessarily the family jewels, and force-source distribution fanatics just don't get it. The more complex a project is, the less often that source is an easy way to determine the approaches taken in the design of a product.) -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11:24:52 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BDEB15080 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:24:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA11836; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:24:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:24:29 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs In-Reply-To: <36EE9914.B4359257@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: # The serious note about the problem that seems to be mounting # concerning the geometric (exponential?) increase in the number of # PRs is still valid, though. I agree. However, this is one of those recurring topics that causes alot of stink when it is raised but usually just dies off without anything actually being done to correct the problem. The last discussion about this on -committers came to just about (if not exactly) the same conclusion as you have reached in this thread - the current system is broken. The problem is that a proposed solution doesn't do any good unless it is followed thru to implementation. I hope this time is different and I offer up my services to make sure it happens and will do whatever is in my power as GNATS administrator to see that whatever policies we come up with are enforced. Right now we only have one approach to solving the problem and that is the brute-force approach. Everyone with an account on freefall just grab a bunch of PRs and fix them! This solution couldn't be any easier. The problem is finding enough motivated people to "Just Do It" (tm). Changing a PR's state or changing the responsible name has proven to not be any more effective than someone such a Sheldon Hearn (and no he is not the only one) just grabbing the PRs and following through with them until they can be closed out. We don't need to develop a fancy "this PR is still open/unassigned" reminder scheme to get PRs closed. We need motivated people to do the work. I see you closed some today. I closed off ~50 ports-related PRs on Sunday, have quite a few more in the works, and a huge list from Joergen Asmodai (sp?) that I'm delinquent on. Nothing works better than to stop talking about closing PRs and just close them. :-) # -- # Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) # dcs@newsguy.com # dcs@freebsd.org # # "What happened?" # "It moved, sir!" # # # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11:26:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD0B115505 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:25:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA16493; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:25:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA01419; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:12:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:12:02 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Sascha Schumann Cc: Andreas Klemm , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html Message-ID: <19990316201202.A1382@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990315212538.A15607@schell.de> <19990315222619.A1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990316143700.A3066@schell.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990316143700.A3066@schell.de>; from Sascha Schumann on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:37:00PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:37:00PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > > Well, the numbers have changed (^^^ not). I also changed the signature ... > But the method is still insane. Nearly every benchmark is insane. Therefore I'm only interested how fast certain things can be done. > A You are comparing not the same process, because there are numerous > things which differ (e.g. libraries, compiler version, toolchain). Yes, you are absolutely right ... Many things influence the speeed of doing the task "compile this and that"... > The only claim I would derive from such a test would be that > "you can build your programs faster on FreeBSD." Sigh. Well, guess for what purpose you want speed ... exactly for that. So one aspect of speed is this compiling task ... > Btw, SuSE 6.1 with kernel 2.2.3, KDE 1.1 and GNOME 1.0 will be shipped in > April (international version will come out in May). Fine... -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas FreeBSD SMP is approximately 120% of Linux SMP http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11:27:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799D415502 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:25:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA16496; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:25:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id UAA01436; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:13:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:13:16 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Neil Blakey-Milner Cc: Andreas Klemm , Sascha Schumann , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html Message-ID: <19990316201316.B1382@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990316155805.A24384@rucus.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990316155805.A24384@rucus.ru.ac.za>; from Neil Blakey-Milner on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 03:58:05PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 03:58:05PM +0000, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > On Mon 1999-03-15 (19:10), Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > And no, compiling bash is not a real-life application. At least not, > > > if you do not spend your whole time compiling and creating silly > > > "benchmarks." > > > > Hmm, i recompiled the Linux kernel. > > The question being, of course, whether your build tools are all running with > the same options, and with the same versions of the tools, and so forth. > > No use comparing a "cc" versus a "cc -O2 -pipe", after all. In the "compilation benchmark" I used "-g -pipe -O2" for both OS -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas FreeBSD SMP is approximately 120% of Linux SMP http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 11:33:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guerilla.foo.bar (hennen32s.iserlohn.netsurf.de [194.195.194.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 19CE9150A6 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sas@schell.de) Received: (qmail 4841 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 20:33:53 +0100 Received: from innernet (masked all received headers); 16 Mar 1999 20:33:53 +0100 Received: (from sas@localhost) by flaubert.foo.bar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09108; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:33:16 +0100 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:33:15 +0100 From: Sascha Schumann To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990316203315.A9098@schell.de> References: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> <199903161902.OAA08459@y.dyson.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199903161902.OAA08459@y.dyson.net>; from John S. Dyson on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:02:32PM -0500 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.2-ac7 alpha Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:02:32PM -0500, John S. Dyson wrote: > Sascha Schumann said: > > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 05:13:20PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > I tend to agree. I could accept the statement "Linux SMP gives less > > > performance than FreeBSD SMP". I can`t accept the statement "Linux > > > SMP gives no performance improvement". > > > > Well, I could accept it, if it would be technically correct. But Mr Klemm's > > claims are simply invalid. I probably do not need to reiterate on that fact. > > > > Alternatively, I will claim that Linux is 1200% faster, since I can > > calculate DES keys at a rate of 10M/sec on my Linux box (Alpha PC164UX, > > 633MHz) and only 0.8M/sec on my FreeBSD box (Intel Pentium, 166MHz) (yes, > > it is non sense). > > > Mr. Klemm is using the same hardware in the test, so your comment doesn't > compare. He also redid the experiment with a better comparative test using > a more "correct" version of Linux, and the released version of FreeBSD still > came out ahead. The original comment was non sense (Mr Klemm showed that by repeating his test). I placed another comment against it. Of course, this cannot make sense, too. -- Regards, Sascha Schumann | Consultant | finger sas@schell.de | for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 12:43:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54FC9155BC for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:43:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10N0fq-0006Mc-0K; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:42:51 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id UAA04607; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:42:30 GMT Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id UAA00316; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:39:33 GMT (envelope-from marko) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:39:33 +0000 From: Mark Ovens To: Jamie Bowden Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Message-ID: <19990316203933.A260@marder-1.localhost> References: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> <199903161652.LAA27020@gatekeeper.itribe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <199903161652.LAA27020@gatekeeper.itribe.net>; from Jamie Bowden on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 11:48:28AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 11:48:28AM -0500, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Mark Ovens wrote: > > > Apparently civil rights types and other "concerned" people are up in > > arms over it, claiming it will allow Big Brother to watch what you do > > and where you go on the Internet. In response to this Intel say they > > will ship the chips with the feature turned off. Apparently it can be > > turned off by software, but only turned on again by power-cycling the > > chip. > > > > I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it > > like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry > > Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the > > prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. > > I can change my hostid on a sun. Can you change the serial number on an > intel? > Don't think so. How do you change the hostid on a Sun? Aren't they "burnt-in" to the NVRAM chip? I know that when the NVRAMs fail hostid returns FFFFFFFF. > Jamie Bowden > > -- > > If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. > -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) > > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 13: 5:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DA115381; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:05:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA11550; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:04:52 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Alex Zepeda Cc: gummibear@we.mediaone.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Concerning PC Mags pitiful mention of FreeBSD References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Mar 1999 22:04:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: Alex Zepeda's message of "Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:33:32 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Zepeda writes: > I finally got around to reading that horrible article (a URL was just > posted to /.). Care to share it with us? I haven't seen anything about it in my headline listings. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 13:32:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA5614D5C for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:32:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA12205; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:32:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Mark Ovens Cc: The Hermit Hacker , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Mar 1999 22:32:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: Mark Ovens's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:59:43 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it > like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry > Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the > prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. The host ID on Sun workstations and servers is not a CPU serial number, it's a workstation serial number which is stored in NVRAM, and can be changed. A company I worked at did that to avoid the hassle of transferring their licenses every time they replaced the machines (which was quite often, due to the nature of their activities). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 13:36: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F401501F for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:35:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA12289; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:35:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Mar 1999 22:35:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: The Hermit Hacker's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:00:20 -0400 (AST)" Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Hermit Hacker writes: > themis:/var/log> hostid > 1ff199af Hmm, what's that box's IP address? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 13:38:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9CB14E00 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:38:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA12351; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:38:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: The Hermit Hacker Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Mar 1999 22:38:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: The Hermit Hacker's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:55:39 -0400 (AST)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Hermit Hacker writes: > Haven't seen anyone mention anything about this...anyone know more? > > http://dragon.acadiau.ca/~034790g/newsletter.htm That article isn't worth the electrons to store it. It's complete bullshit from one end to the other. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 13:54:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3BA150D3 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:54:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA12697; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:54:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Steve Price Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Mar 1999 22:54:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: Steve Price's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:05:31 -0600 (CST)" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Price writes: > 1) 5197 new PRs since January 1, 1998 > 2) 2534 half of those were for ports > 3) 336 this is the number left open > 4) 218 this is the number not assigned to anyone > 5) 3883 or 74% of the PRs opened in 1998 are now closed How about making such statistics available at regular intervals, or writing a CGI script which computes and displays them? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 13:59:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0918715172 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:59:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA08364; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:59:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:59:00 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 16 Mar 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: # Steve Price writes: # > 1) 5197 new PRs since January 1, 1998 # > 2) 2534 half of those were for ports # > 3) 336 this is the number left open # > 4) 218 this is the number not assigned to anyone # > 5) 3883 or 74% of the PRs opened in 1998 are now closed # # How about making such statistics available at regular intervals, or # writing a CGI script which computes and displays them? I'd be glad too. In fact I think Poul had a good start at this. Anyone know of a good graph-generation package I could use to make some pretty charts with? # DES # -- # Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 14: 9:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CC315004 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:09:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id XAA13060; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:08:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Steve Price Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 16 Mar 1999 23:08:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: Steve Price's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:59:00 -0600 (CST)" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Price writes: > On 16 Mar 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > # How about making such statistics available at regular intervals, or > # writing a CGI script which computes and displays them? > I'd be glad too. In fact I think Poul had a good start at > this. Anyone know of a good graph-generation package I could > use to make some pretty charts with? I was about to suggest MRTG in my previous mail, but abstained :) For examples of MRTG in action, go see http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html http://www.emsphone.com/stats/freebsd.html The first page has login and throughput statistics for ftp.cdrom.com, the second has usage statistics for the #FreeBSD channel on EFNet. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 14:45:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B4D15255 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:45:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA29610; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:45:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:45:29 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks. I'll play around with it later tonight after work. On 16 Mar 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: # Steve Price writes: # > On 16 Mar 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: # > # How about making such statistics available at regular intervals, or # > # writing a CGI script which computes and displays them? # > I'd be glad too. In fact I think Poul had a good start at # > this. Anyone know of a good graph-generation package I could # > use to make some pretty charts with? # # I was about to suggest MRTG in my previous mail, but abstained :) # # For examples of MRTG in action, go see # # http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html # http://www.emsphone.com/stats/freebsd.html # # The first page has login and throughput statistics for ftp.cdrom.com, # the second has usage statistics for the #FreeBSD channel on EFNet. # # DES # -- # Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no # To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 15:42: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-8.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1EAE14EF9; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:42:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA70614; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:41:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:41:55 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Eivind Eklund Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Concerning PC Mags pitiful mention of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990316153112.B4774@bitbox.follo.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Eivind Eklund wrote: > Kool Desktop Environment was the working name of KDE during initial > development. That's what the acronym stood for _then_, at least. Then being easily in early 1997. > I don't think I've seen any other expansions, beyond calling it 'K > Desktop Environment', which hardly seems like a full expansion. > > What would you have them put there? K Desktop Environment. http://www.kde.org/documentation/en/general/faq/index-2.html#ss2.2 - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 15:44:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-8.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E7D14CB5; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:44:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA70624; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:43:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:43:51 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Zepeda To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: gummibear@we.mediaone.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Concerning PC Mags pitiful mention of FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 16 Mar 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Alex Zepeda writes: > > I finally got around to reading that horrible article (a URL was just > > posted to /.). > > Care to share it with us? I haven't seen anything about it in my > headline listings. Look for "Software Returns to Source" http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/opensource/index.html - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 16: 6:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE60515217 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:06:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10N3qJ-000DTV-0C; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:05:52 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from marder-1. (rasnt-1 [193.114.228.211]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id AAA00366; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:05:05 GMT Received: (from marko@localhost) by marder-1. (8.9.2/8.8.8) id AAA00637; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:02:14 GMT (envelope-from marko) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:02:14 +0000 From: Mark Ovens To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Message-ID: <19990317000214.C260@marder-1.localhost> References: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:32:18PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:32:18PM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Mark Ovens writes: > > I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it > > like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry > > Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the > > prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. > > The host ID on Sun workstations and servers is not a CPU serial > number, it's a workstation serial number which is stored in NVRAM, I realize that, but it's the same _type_ of thing and could be used in the same way as the PIIIs serial number. The point I was making is that the idea is not new, which judging by the reaction to the PIII you'd think it was. > and > can be changed. A company I worked at did that to avoid the hassle of > transferring their licenses every time they replaced the machines > (which was quite often, due to the nature of their activities). I didn't realize that the could be changed. We never do, we just make a new licence file. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~markov _______________________________________________________________ Mark Ovens, CNC Apps Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath UK CAD/CAM solutions for Sheetmetal Working Industry mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 16:16: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1FD152B5 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:15:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.201]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA6154; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:15:18 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA00542; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:15:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:15:04 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Steve Price Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Daniel C. Sobral" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 16-Mar-99 Steve Price wrote: > I see you closed some today. I closed off ~50 ports-related PRs > on Sunday, have quite a few more in the works, and a huge list > from Joergen Asmodai (sp?) that I'm delinquent on. Nothing > works better than to stop talking about closing PRs and just > close them. :-) Well, it's not Joergen, but Jeroen, but who cares? =) Anyways, I still have my list and, given time, am going to look more deeply into those pr's and will try to get more feedback and/or solutions to ease the task. I hope to address that this week maximum, so be prepared ye all that I am going to bug ye ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 16:47:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB7014F06 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:47:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA17963; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:17:21 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA69047; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:17:20 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990317111720.O429@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:17:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Sascha Schumann , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Real performance comparisons (was: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!!) References: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de>; from Sascha Schumann on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 03:07:15PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 15:07:15 +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 05:13:20PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> I tend to agree. I could accept the statement "Linux SMP gives less >> performance than FreeBSD SMP". I can`t accept the statement "Linux >> SMP gives no performance improvement". > > Well, I could accept it, if it would be technically correct. But Mr Klemm's > claims are simply invalid. I probably do not need to reiterate on that fact. > > Alternatively, I will claim that Linux is 1200% faster, since I can calculate > DES keys at a rate of 10M/sec on my Linux box (Alpha PC164UX, 633MHz) and only > 0.8M/sec on my FreeBSD box (Intel Pentium, 166MHz) (yes, it is non sense). > >> The first thing that came into >> my mind was "he must have made a mistake". Other possibilities are >> that make -j doesn`t work right on Linux, or that Linux SMP doesn`t >> even the load as well as FreeBSD does (for example, some MP systems >> put all children in the same CPU). > > Linux distributes the load across the various CPUs. If you want to > know which system scales better for your needs, test it directly > with your application. I believe this is exactly what Andreas did. For various reasons, it didn't work. > Do not rely on someone who does not even tell you how he produced > his results. Andreas was quite specific about his results. The only mistake he made (and one about which I commented) was that he initially accepted the fact that he got *no* performance improvement from the SMP implementation. This is at least a documentation problem of the SuSE distribution. As somebody else said, it *would* be interesting to compare Linux and FreeBSD performance objectively and in detail. The only comparison of this nature that we have at the moment is from the Gartner group (http://advisor.gartner.com/n_inbox/hotcontent/hc_2121999_3.html#h8), which shows that FreeBSD outperforms Linux by in the order of 40% in certain server applications. While I don't doubt the validity of this information, it would be interesting to research where the differences lie, and the extent to which such measurements are typical. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 17:22:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7C1150D3 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:21:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-125.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.125]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA06460; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:20:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA83650; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:20:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903170120.TAA83650@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Mark Ovens Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-reply-to: Message from Mark Ovens of "Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:02:14 GMT." <19990317000214.C260@marder-1.localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:20:54 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > > The host ID on Sun workstations and servers is not a CPU serial > > number, it's a workstation serial number which is stored in NVRAM, > > I realize that, but it's the same _type_ of thing and could be used > in the same way as the PIIIs serial number. The point I was making > is that the idea is not new, which judging by the reaction to the > PIII you'd think it was. > > > and > > can be changed. A company I worked at did that to avoid the hassle of > > transferring their licenses every time they replaced the machines > > (which was quite often, due to the nature of their activities). > > I didn't realize that the could be changed. We never do, we just > make a new licence file. Don't know if its still stored in NVRAM on newer Suns but know on my Sun 3/80 its in the clock NVRAM and quite easy to change. Not that I know of all SGI systems, but on all I've encountered the system serial number is etched permanently somewhere. Typically its releated to the system's ethernet MAC address. Service technicians swap this chip when exchanging the board to retain the same system S/N. On an O2 there is a riser cage which holds the one PCI slot. The PCB for this riser has exactly one chunk of silicon, a Dallas Semiconductor 3-pin chip which contains the system serial number. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 18:11:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF9815296 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:11:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA18408; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:41:07 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA69301; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:41:02 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:41:02 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:35:27PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 22:35:27 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > The Hermit Hacker writes: >> themis:/var/log> hostid >> 1ff199af > > Hmm, what's that box's IP address? Not 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f, anyway: $ traceroute 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f traceroute to 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f (175.153.241.31), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 Cont0.way3.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.136.129) 132.367 ms 109.295 ms 114.168 ms 2 Ethernet1-0.way1.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.237.65) 115.007 ms 103.010 ms 112.564 ms 3 Fddi0-0.way-core2.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.237.229) 113.457 ms 107.387 ms 110.893 ms 4 Atm1-0-1.lon-core1.Melbourne.telstra.net (203.50.6.5) 182.921 ms 175.501 ms 173.186 ms 5 Fddi0-0.lon5.Melbourne.telstra.net (139.130.239.231) 180.808 ms 172.435 ms 181.950 ms 6 * * * 7 * *^C This is a pretty clear indication that the packets are falling off the end of the world. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 18:17: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F76C14F05 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:16:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA18420; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:46:39 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA69323; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:46:38 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990317124638.S429@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:46:38 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Sascha Schumann , Andreas Klemm Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html References: <19990315143602.A984@schell.de> <19990315191026.E3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990315212538.A15607@schell.de> <19990315222619.A1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990316143700.A3066@schell.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990316143700.A3066@schell.de>; from Sascha Schumann on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 02:37:00PM +0100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 14:37:00 +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:26:19PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 09:25:38PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: >>> On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 07:10:27PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: >>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 02:36:02PM +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: >>>> >>>> Perhaps I repeat the test with an 2.2 kernel.... >>> >>> Yes, and please stop spreading FUD. It looks rather narrow-minded to be >>> proud of such a comparison. >> >> Look at the new values ;-) Satisfied ?! ;-) >> >> -- >> Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas >> News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE Linux 6.0 SMP by 230% !!! > > Well, the numbers have changed (^^^ not). But the method is still insane. You > are comparing not the same process, because there are numerous things which > differ (e.g. libraries, compiler version, toolchain). The only claim I would > derive from such a test would be that "you can build your programs faster on > FreeBSD." Sigh. ISTR it was you who suggested trying a real world application. If Andreas spends all his time building software, this is exactly what you asked for. What kind of real world application would you like to see? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 18:37:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E0915296 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:37:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-70-5.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.70.5]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13659 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA02089 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:27:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Apple's Open Source License X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990316212731A.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:27:31 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 9 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org One more for the collection: http://www.publicsource.apple.com/apsl.html Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 19:40:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from arutam.inch.com (ns.inch.com [207.240.140.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5836414E7A for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:40:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freyes@inch.com) Received: from your-name (TC6-dial-154-212.oldslip.inch.com [207.240.212.154]) by arutam.inch.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA14721 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:42:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903170342.WAA14721@arutam.inch.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:42:12 -0500 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source License Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:27:31 -0500, W Gerald Hicks wrote: >One more for the collection: >http://www.publicsource.apple.com/apsl.html A total joke. They define "you" and "your" among other things. I also found it overly restrictive. Found lots of things to laugh about in the license, but none tops: ---- (c) completely and accurately document all Modifications that you have made and the date of each such Modification, designate the version of the Original Code you used, prominently include a file carrying such information with the Modifications, and duplicate the notice in Exhibit A in each file of the Source Code of all such Modifications. I think they are running low on R&D money so they want people to do the work and make it easy for them to integrate back. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 20:57:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (unknown [208.149.16.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1AA514BCE; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:56:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA55971; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:55:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Anthony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:55:18 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I doubt it would make performance worse. I think GCC basically just > > ignores it for IA32. > It does ignore it. This is categorically wrong. GCC does not ignore "register" declarations. It honors the ANSI standard C semantics for register-qualified types in at least some circumstances, even without supplying -ansi or -pedantic options. I just tried it. > ... the compiler knows more > about temporaries and other usage than the programmer. Most of the time > (but not all of the time), that is true. This is certainly correct, but is beside the point, which illustrates the danger of the "register" keyword: Even experienced expert users who have not specialized in compilers or language semantics are decieved by the fact that the semantics of "register" in the ANSI dialect bear only a passing relationship to the ordinary technical use of the English word. I would like to make several points which this discussion has obscured to date: Firstly, removing "register" declarations from a program can cause correct code to become incorrect code. This is true, not only of ANSI C, but of the GNU C 2 series compilers, as well as other significant current compilers, such as Microsoft and SunPro. Secondly, producing such code is not easy, and it is very unlikely that any given use of the keyword in the source base will meet the necessary conditions to demonstrate this fact. Thirdly, most instances of the keyword are not intentionally being used to produce ANSI semantics. Instead, the author's intention was to effect the manual optimization of K & R's "register" keyword. It is this intention which is justifiably belittled by the majority of commentators in this thread. Finally, David O'Brien's quote from ANSI X3.159-1989 proves that Andrew O'Rielly's characterization of the meaning of "register" is fair and justified. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21: 9:38 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4D615163 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:09:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA00438; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:08:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:08:23 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org No, no.... The ID is a MAC address, not an IP address. --Brett At 12:41 PM 3/17/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 22:35:27 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >> The Hermit Hacker writes: >>> themis:/var/log> hostid >>> 1ff199af >> >> Hmm, what's that box's IP address? > >Not 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f, anyway: > >$ traceroute 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f >traceroute to 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f (175.153.241.31), 30 hops max, 40 byte >packets > 1 Cont0.way3.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.136.129) 132.367 ms 109.295 >ms 114.168 ms > 2 Ethernet1-0.way1.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.237.65) 115.007 ms >103.010 ms 112.564 ms > 3 Fddi0-0.way-core2.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.237.229) 113.457 ms >107.387 ms 110.893 ms > 4 Atm1-0-1.lon-core1.Melbourne.telstra.net (203.50.6.5) 182.921 ms >175.501 ms 173.186 ms > 5 Fddi0-0.lon5.Melbourne.telstra.net (139.130.239.231) 180.808 ms >172.435 ms 181.950 ms > 6 * * * > 7 * *^C > >This is a pretty clear indication that the packets are falling off the >end of the world. > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:20:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B9214BCF for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:20:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA45943; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:18:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:18:53 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey To: Anthony Kimball Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code In-Reply-To: <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 16 Mar 1999, Anthony Kimball wrote: > Firstly, removing "register" declarations from a program can > cause correct code to become incorrect code. This is true, not only > of ANSI C, but of the GNU C 2 series compilers, as well as other > significant current compilers, such as Microsoft and SunPro. > > Secondly, producing such code is not easy, and it is very unlikely > that any given use of the keyword in the source base will meet the > necessary conditions to demonstrate this fact. > > Thirdly, most instances of the keyword are not intentionally being > used to produce ANSI semantics. Instead, the author's intention was > to effect the manual optimization of K & R's "register" keyword. It > is this intention which is justifiably belittled by the majority of > commentators in this thread. > > Finally, David O'Brien's quote from ANSI X3.159-1989 proves that > Andrew O'Rielly's characterization of the meaning of "register" > is fair and justified. Most of what I've seen here is correct, you guys are seemingly pushing your viewpoints. You all basically agree with one another, but you want to emphasize one little point. OK, I'll raise my own little point, then/ You seem to be conveniently forgetting the huge role the hardware plays. Let me see you get 3 register vars (in use) on an Intel platform. On the Alpha I could see it (tho I wouldn't be surprised in any one case to see a compiler overrule you) but the resources are *so* short on the IA32, almost any register declaration is headed for the boneyard. Well. It won't hurt to use it, if you're extremely sophisticated, but for most people it's a big mistake to use it, especially if you follow any of the example code written in the last 20 years. Is that right? And if you know enough to use it right, you're probably going to rely on the compiler anyhow (if you need the speed, you'll use assembler anyhow). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:30: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7CE14F24 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:30:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA19485; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:59:43 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA70283; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:59:42 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990317155941.D429@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:59:41 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:08:23PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 22:08:23 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:41 PM 3/17/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 22:35:27 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >>> The Hermit Hacker writes: >>>> themis:/var/log> hostid >>>> 1ff199af >>> >>> Hmm, what's that box's IP address? >> >> Not 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f, anyway: >> >> $ traceroute 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f >> traceroute to 0xaf.0x99.0xf1.0x1f (175.153.241.31), 30 hops max, 40 byte >> packets >> 1 Cont0.way3.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.136.129) 132.367 ms 109.295 ms 114.168 ms >> 2 Ethernet1-0.way1.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.237.65) 115.007 ms 103.010 ms 112.564 ms >> 3 Fddi0-0.way-core2.Adelaide.telstra.net (139.130.237.229) 113.457 ms 107.387 ms 110.893 ms >> 4 Atm1-0-1.lon-core1.Melbourne.telstra.net (203.50.6.5) 182.921 ms 175.501 ms 173.186 ms >> 5 Fddi0-0.lon5.Melbourne.telstra.net (139.130.239.231) 180.808 ms 172.435 ms 181.950 ms >> 6 * * * >> 7 * *^C >> >> This is a pretty clear indication that the packets are falling off the >> end of the world. > > No, no.... The ID is a MAC address, not an IP address. Ethernet addresses are 48 bits long. You'll also note DES's original question. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:33:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (unknown [208.149.16.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5813215235 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:33:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA56231; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:31:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Anthony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:31:35 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: chuckr@mat.net Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code References: <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14063.15486.810437.3670@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Chuck Robey on Wed, 17 March: : You seem to be conveniently forgetting the huge role the hardware plays. : Let me see you get 3 register vars (in use) on an Intel platform. On : the Alpha I could see it (tho I wouldn't be surprised in any one case to : see a compiler overrule you) but the resources are *so* short on the : IA32, almost any register declaration is headed for the boneyard. Aaaah! Argggh! I agree completely, but feel as though I've just been talking to a brick wall. What I tell you three times is true. "register" qualifier != CPU register. "register" qualifier != CPU register. "register" qualifier != CPU register. : Well. It won't hurt to use it, if you're extremely sophisticated, but : for most people it's a big mistake to use it, especially if you follow : any of the example code written in the last 20 years. Is that right? Aside from being founded upon a mistaken world view, your conclusion is absolutely and precisely correct. : And if you know enough to use it right, you're probably going to rely on : the compiler anyhow (if you need the speed, you'll use assembler : anyhow). Using it *correctly* *is* relying upon the compiler. You are providing new semantic information to the compiler which permits it to perform optimizations that may nothing to do with the idea of keeping the value in a CPU register other than using the keyword which historically was used to perform this manual optimization. ANSI 'register' is arguably more like ANSI 'const' than it is like K & R's 'register'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:33:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D51315317 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:33:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from lot.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@lot.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.106]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01378; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:01:07 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:01:07 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Mark Ovens , The Hermit Hacker , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17-Mar-99 Brett Glass wrote: > No, no.... The ID is a MAC address, not an IP address. Ahh, no.. MAC addresses are 6 8-bit words, not 4 --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:34:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9E11540E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:34:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA00805; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:33:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:33:40 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990317155941.D429@lemis.com> References: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:59 PM 3/17/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >Ethernet addresses are 48 bits long. You'll also note DES's original >question. So, add the vendor code (which is the same on all Suns).... --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:43:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2804615549 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:43:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA81298; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:42:49 GMT Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA07396; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:42:37 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199903170542.WAA07396@harmony.village.org> To: alk@pobox.com Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:55:18 CST." <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> References: <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:42:37 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> Anthony Kimball writes: : Firstly, removing "register" declarations from a program can : cause correct code to become incorrect code. This is true, not only : of ANSI C, but of the GNU C 2 series compilers, as well as other : significant current compilers, such as Microsoft and SunPro. How? I can think of no way that removing the register part of a declaration can cause this (eg register int foo -> int foo). Warner P.S. I'm not on chat, so please CC me with the answer to this. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:43:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A0415558 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:43:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA19540; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:54 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id QAA70377; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:49 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990317161249.F429@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Brett Glass , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317155941.D429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:33:40PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 22:33:40 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 03:59 PM 3/17/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> Ethernet addresses are 48 bits long. You'll also note DES's original >> question. > > So, add the vendor code (which is the same on all Suns).... That would make it longer, not shorter. The number we had it 32 bits long. I've just booted up my SSII for the first time in 69 days. The boot screen tells me its serial number is 4232660, its Ethernet address is 8:0:20:3:2c:98, and the Host Id is 554095d4. FWIW, the IP address is: le0: flags=63 inet 192.109.197.145 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.109.197.0 Look at that crazy broadcast address. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 21:55: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2978914EB5 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:54:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id WAA01010; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:54:11 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990316225336.040413e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:54:09 -0700 To: Greg Lehey , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990317161249.F429@lemis.com> References: <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317155941.D429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:12 PM 3/17/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >That would make it longer, not shorter. The number we had it 32 bits >long. That's right. Add 16 bits for "Sun" to make 48 total -- a MAC address. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 22: 5: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0BE714C94 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:04:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id HAA25380; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:04:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brett Glass , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317155941.D429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost> <19990317161249.F429@lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Mar 1999 07:04:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:12:49 +1030" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Tuesday, 16 March 1999 at 22:33:40 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 03:59 PM 3/17/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > Ethernet addresses are 48 bits long. You'll also note DES's original > > > question. > > So, add the vendor code (which is the same on all Suns).... > That would make it longer, not shorter. The number we had it 32 bits > long. No, what he means is that 16 of the 48 bytes of the MAC are the vendor code. But this is not relevant since the machine in question was an x86, and the vendor code might be anything (or nothing at all). DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 22:32:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E23E14E43 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:32:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 20727 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1999 06:32:16 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 1999 06:32:15 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA03094; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:32:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903170632.BAA03094@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code In-Reply-To: <199903170542.WAA07396@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Mar 16, 99 10:42:37 pm" To: imp@harmony.village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:32:13 -0500 (EST) Cc: alk@pobox.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Warner Losh said: > In message <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> Anthony Kimball writes: > : Firstly, removing "register" declarations from a program can > : cause correct code to become incorrect code. This is true, not only > : of ANSI C, but of the GNU C 2 series compilers, as well as other > : significant current compilers, such as Microsoft and SunPro. > > How? I can think of no way that removing the register part of a > declaration can cause this (eg register int foo -> int foo). > It is possible because of setjmp type things. However, the use of register can be replaced by "auto?" -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 22:35:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9DFAA150AF for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:34:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@y.dyson.net) Received: (qmail 23084 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1999 06:34:34 -0000 Received: from dyson.iquest.net (HELO y.dyson.net) (198.70.144.127) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 1999 06:34:34 -0000 Received: (from toor@localhost) by y.dyson.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA03100; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:34:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903170634.BAA03100@y.dyson.net> Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code In-Reply-To: <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> from Anthony Kimball at "Mar 16, 99 10:55:18 pm" To: alk@pobox.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:34:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: chat@freebsd.org From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@iquest.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anthony Kimball said: > > > > I doubt it would make performance worse. I think GCC basically just > > > ignores it for IA32. > > > It does ignore it. > > This is categorically wrong. GCC does not ignore "register" > declarations. It honors the ANSI standard C semantics for > register-qualified types in at least some circumstances, even without > supplying -ansi or -pedantic options. I just tried it. > In the sense of "optimization" it does ignore it. I agree that register is considered to be something like "auto" from certain standpoints. However, it seemed that the context was optimization, and choosing "register" to produce better code. There should be *few* cases of the *need* to use "register" in code. Again, the context was optimization. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 22:40:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC39215122 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:40:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA81501; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:40:13 GMT Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id XAA07832; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:40:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199903170640.XAA07832@harmony.village.org> To: dyson@iquest.net Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code Cc: alk@pobox.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:32:13 EST." <199903170632.BAA03094@y.dyson.net> References: <199903170632.BAA03094@y.dyson.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:40:01 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199903170632.BAA03094@y.dyson.net> "John S. Dyson" writes: : Warner Losh said: : > In message <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> Anthony Kimball writes: : > : Firstly, removing "register" declarations from a program can : > : cause correct code to become incorrect code. This is true, not only : > : of ANSI C, but of the GNU C 2 series compilers, as well as other : > : significant current compilers, such as Microsoft and SunPro. : > : > How? I can think of no way that removing the register part of a : > declaration can cause this (eg register int foo -> int foo). : > : It is possible because of setjmp type things. However, the use of : register can be replaced by "auto?" Aren't those value indeterminate, even in the face of regsiter? Reliance on those values would make the program not strictly conforming. From the setjmp man page: All accessible objects have values as of the time longjmp() routine was called, except that the values of objects of automatic storage invocation duration that do not have the volatile type and have been changed between the setjmp() invocation and longjmp() call are indeterminate. Having something be register or not doesn't impact if it is automatic storage or not, unless I've misread the standard. In fact, all register variables are, by definition, automatic since that is the only type you can apply register to. I'm sure the better language lawyers will correct me if I'm wrong. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Mar 16 22:45:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (unknown [208.149.16.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A824A14C94 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:45:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA56706; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:43:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Anthony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:43:42 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: dyson@iquest.net Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code References: <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> <199903170634.BAA03100@y.dyson.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14063.20022.614132.426419@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth John S. Dyson on Wed, 17 March: : : There should be *few* cases of the *need* to use "register" in code. : : Again, the context was optimization. Okay, I agree with what you are saying, but I still hold that O'Reilly's point was valid, and treated unfairly, that providing additional semantic information constraining the modes of reference which are permitted on a variable will *permit* the compiler to produce better code. Whether any existing compiler exploits this opportunity -- I remain agnostic. I certainly haven't written any. We're talking about 5th- or 6th-order optimizations here. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 5: 5: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF511541B for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:04:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rainking@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (rainking@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21150 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:04:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:04:32 -0600 (CST) From: Owen Barnett To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: VMware Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone seen VMware? www.vmware.com It's for linux, but it won't run under emulation... Any plans to port it? It looks really interesting. Owen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 5:25:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F9314D3A for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:25:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem07.masternet.it [194.184.65.17]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA11548; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:24:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990318142313.0094c7f0@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:23:56 +0100 To: Owen Barnett From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: VMware Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07.04 17/03/99 -0600, you wrote: > > Anyone seen VMware? www.vmware.com >It's for linux, but it won't run under emulation... Any plans to port it? >It looks really interesting. Is it the same thing of Bosch ? Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 5:39:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B9B14C9C for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:39:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lowell@world.std.com) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id IAA18506; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:39:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA09675; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:39:30 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? References: <36EE7FEF.5B2D6587@uk.radan.com> <19990317000214.C260@marder-1.localhost> From: Lowell Gilbert Date: 17 Mar 1999 08:39:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: Mark Ovens's message of Wed, 17 Mar 1999 00:02:14 +0000 Message-Id: Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens writes: > I realize that, but it's the same _type_ of thing and could be used > in the same way as the PIIIs serial number. The point I was making > is that the idea is not new, which judging by the reaction to the > PIII you'd think it was. What Mr. Ovens is saying here is correct, but it misses the one distinction between the Pentium III ID and previous uses of the "hostid" concept: the difference between single- and multi-user machines. When a hostid is uniquely bound to a *user* (as it often, though not always will on a Pentium III), that's quite different than being shared among all the users of a shared machine (as it often, though not always, is on a Sun). Fundamentally, most computers are "personal" computers, used only by the person sitting in front of the console. This usage has a number of different characteristics than a typical Unix "server": single-user, focus on one task at a time, UI is primary, etc. Be well. Lowell Gilbert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 5:49:37 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7570E15350 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rainking@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (rainking@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22954; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:48:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:48:57 -0600 (CST) From: Owen Barnett To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VMware In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990318142313.0094c7f0@194.184.65.4> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bosch? On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > At 07.04 17/03/99 -0600, you wrote: > > > > Anyone seen VMware? www.vmware.com > >It's for linux, but it won't run under emulation... Any plans to port it? > >It looks really interesting. > > Is it the same thing of Bosch ? > > > > Best Regards, > Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" > http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco > http://www2.masternet.it > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 5:57: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D23C150D2 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:57:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rainking@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (rainking@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA23229; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:56:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:56:30 -0600 (CST) From: Owen Barnett To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: VMware In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990318142313.0094c7f0@194.184.65.4> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org VMware is a tool for using multiple OSes simultaneously. Right now they have versions for linux and soon fot NT. On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > At 07.04 17/03/99 -0600, you wrote: > > > > Anyone seen VMware? www.vmware.com > >It's for linux, but it won't run under emulation... Any plans to port it? > >It looks really interesting. > > Is it the same thing of Bosch ? > > > > Best Regards, > Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" > http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco > http://www2.masternet.it > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 6:31:35 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scotty.masternet.it (scotty.masternet.it [194.184.65.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B35114F15 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:31:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Received: from suzy (modem07.masternet.it [194.184.65.17]) by scotty.masternet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA12278; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:31:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from gmarco@scotty.masternet.it) Message-Id: <4.1.19990318153114.00995c30@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@scotty.masternet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:32:43 +0100 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: Re: VMware Cc: rainking@shell.futuresouth.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >VMware is a tool for using multiple OSes simultaneously. Right now they >have versions for linux and soon fot NT. Ooops, typo .. I wanted to write bochs :-) In ports/emulators tree Thanks... Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 8:24:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rossel.saarnet.de (rossel.saarnet.de [145.253.240.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200E114CA9 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:24:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doehrm@aubi.de) Received: from igate.aubi.de (root@igate.aubi.de [145.253.242.249]) by rossel.saarnet.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19224 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:00:46 +0100 (MET) Received: from cisco.aubi.de (soraya.aubi.de [170.56.121.252]) by igate.aubi.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23298 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:51:10 +0100 Received: from exchange.aubi.de (EXCHANGE.aubi.de [170.56.121.91]) by cisco.aubi.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA25467 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:08:46 +0100 (CET) Received: by EXCHANGE.aubi.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:55:28 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Markus_D=F6hr?= To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:55:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Currently, no distribution actually ships with the 2.2.x=20 > kernel, since no > distributions have been released since the 2.2.x kernel was=20 > released. not quite right: on http://www.suse.de you can pre-order the 6.1 = version of Suse, they'll use kernel-2.2.3. -- Markus Doehr =20 IT Admin =20 AUBI Baubeschl=E4ge GmbH =20 Tel.: +49 6503 917 152 =20 Fax : +49 6503 917 190 =20 e-Mail: doehrm@aubi.de MD1139-RIPE =20 ************************* =20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 8:38: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guerilla.foo.bar (hennen32s.iserlohn.netsurf.de [194.195.194.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 77B3214C31 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:37:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sas@schell.de) Received: (qmail 2156 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1999 17:38:10 +0100 Received: from innernet (masked all received headers); 17 Mar 1999 17:38:10 +0100 Received: (from sas@localhost) by flaubert.foo.bar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02522; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:37:18 +0100 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:37:18 +0100 From: Sascha Schumann To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Real performance comparisons (was: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!!) Message-ID: <19990317173718.A2510@schell.de> References: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> <19990317111720.O429@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990317111720.O429@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 11:17:20AM +1030 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.2-ac7 alpha Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 11:17:20AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Andreas was quite specific about his results. The only mistake he > made (and one about which I commented) was that he initially accepted > the fact that he got *no* performance improvement from the SMP > implementation. This is at least a documentation problem of the SuSE > distribution. This only demonstrates clearly that he lacks basic Linux knowledge. No Linux distribution ships with a SMP ready kernel. As a matter of fact, I would not make a benchmark publically available, if I just managed to install a system. > As somebody else said, it *would* be interesting to compare Linux and > FreeBSD performance objectively and in detail. The only comparison of > this nature that we have at the moment is from the Gartner group > (http://advisor.gartner.com/n_inbox/hotcontent/hc_2121999_3.html#h8), > which shows that FreeBSD outperforms Linux by in the order of 40% in > certain server applications. While I don't doubt the validity of this > information, it would be interesting to research where the differences > lie, and the extent to which such measurements are typical. Don't doubt anything. The Gartner Group is always right. -- Regards, Sascha Schumann | Consultant | finger sas@schell.de | for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 8:53:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E93A115264 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:53:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA03508; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:53:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990317093554.03e4dc60@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:36:46 -0700 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , The Hermit Hacker , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317155941.D429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost> <19990317161249.F429@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:04 AM 3/17/99 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >No, what he means is that 16 of the 48 bytes of the MAC are the vendor >code. But this is not relevant since the machine in question was an >x86, and the vendor code might be anything (or nothing at all). Actually, the IEEE still assigns ranges of Ethernet addresses to vendors in an attempt to avoid overlap between MAC addresses. It has nothing to do with the type of CPU.... --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 9:33:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.digital-web.net (sonic.digital-web.net [216.65.27.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20DAB152B5 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:33:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joseph@randomnetworks.com) Received: from localhost (jmscott@localhost) by sonic.digital-web.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08214 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:29:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:29:42 -0500 (EST) From: Joseph Scott X-Sender: jmscott@sonic.digital-web.net Reply-To: Joseph Scott To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Linux replacing FSF components? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Now what should be taken from this : http://www.slashdot.org/articles/99/03/17/1034201.shtml This is the first that I'd really heard about this kind of movement in the Linux area and I was wondering if the FreeBSD userland stuff is going to ported to Linux. Joseph Scott joseph@randomnetworks.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 9:49:19 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from www.giovannelli.it (kirk.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB856152EB for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:48:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from suzy (modem36.masternet.it [194.184.65.46]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA16757 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:47:56 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.1.19990318184218.00968ef0@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@194.184.65.4 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:49:40 +0100 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: email program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is there anyone here that can suggest a good program for email. In truth, I am a little scared by curses interfaces and I prefer a bell and whistle toy :-) What about the ZMail (linux/motif) ? Thanks for your time... Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 10:18:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sjukebox.home (MCCCXLI.dyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.4.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C954152EE for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:18:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sjuke@saunalahti.fi) Received: (from sjuke@localhost) by sjukebox.home (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00497; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:16:12 GMT (envelope-from sjuke@saunalahti.fi) From: sjuke@saunalahti.fi Message-Id: <199903172016.UAA00497@sjukebox.home> X-Authentication-Warning: sjukebox.home: sjuke set sender to sjuke@saunalahti.fi using -f Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:16:11 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: juksi@iname.com Subject: Re: VMware To: rainking@shell.futuresouth.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 0 Mar, Owen Barnett wrote: > > Anyone seen VMware? www.vmware.com >It's for linux, but it won't run under emulation... Any plans to port it? >It looks really interesting. I didn't download it, but read the information, and i got the impression they are going to make a freebsd version themselves, did i got it wrong? (it doesn't really bother me if they don't, i think i'll just try the nt version, it should support freebsd as a child os anyway) Jukka S To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 10:33:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (unknown [208.149.16.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2AF14CC0 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:33:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA58905; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:31:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Anthony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:31:52 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: imp@harmony.village.org Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code References: <14063.12923.464399.183283@avalon.east> <199903170542.WAA07396@harmony.village.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14063.61620.377777.138942@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Warner Losh on Tue, 16 March: : : How? I can think of no way that removing the register part of a : declaration can cause this (eg register int foo -> int foo). Nice catch. I now believe that one cannot, within the bounds of ANSI C; however, code which relies upon implementation-specific behaviours may be rendered "disfunctional". (My use of "correct" was a bad one.) I know this is true because the compiler generates different code in the two cases. Any program which relies upon that difference to function correctly will become disfunctional, unless the compiler detects such a dependency and adapts accordingly. My imagination -- and, more to the point, my knowledge of the available implementation, gcc -- is taxed beyond its current limits when I try to generate examples which won't (justifiably) earn derision as absurdly bad code, so I must weaken my claim in this way: Since it is not provable from or required by the standard or the implementation specification that the change will not result in defects in code which depends upon unspecified features of the implementation, the code cannot be guaranteed to retain correctness when those unspecified features change. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 10:42:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA3D14C45 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:42:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA04834; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:42:15 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990317114100.00cf4ac0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:42:08 -0700 To: Joseph Scott , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux replacing FSF components? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Better still, it appears that the FSF is being exposed for what it is: a territorial, power-hungry organization. The author's beef is with the FSF and its use of the GPL to co-opt software. --Brett At 12:29 PM 3/17/99 -0500, Joseph Scott wrote: > > Now what should be taken from this : > >http://www.slashdot.org/articles/99/03/17/1034201.shtml > > This is the first that I'd really heard about this kind of >movement in the Linux area and I was wondering if the FreeBSD userland >stuff is going to ported to Linux. > >Joseph Scott >joseph@randomnetworks.com > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 10:50: 5 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EAD14D91 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:50:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA35169 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:49:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma035167; Wed, 17 Mar 99 12:49:29 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19696 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:49:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199903171849.MAA19696@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine Subject: Yay-- Mac OS X is open source! Boo-- Smells like GPL! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:49:29 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.publicsource.apple.com/ Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 10:53:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9571C14C0A for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:53:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA23194; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:54:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:54:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , The Hermit Hacker , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990317093554.03e4dc60@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:04 AM 3/17/99 +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > >No, what he means is that 16 of the 48 bytes of the MAC are the vendor > >code. But this is not relevant since the machine in question was an > >x86, and the vendor code might be anything (or nothing at all). > > Actually, the IEEE still assigns ranges of Ethernet addresses to vendors > in an attempt to avoid overlap between MAC addresses. It has nothing to > do with the type of CPU.... It's a semantic point, but the IEEE assigns Organizationally Unique Identifiers, which are 24-bit (not 16-bit) identification numbers that most network equipment manufacturers use for the first 24 bits of the MAC address on the equipment they sell. The OUI can and is used for other things, and lazy/sleazy NIC manufacturers use MAC addresses that have nothing to do with an OUI. Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 11:10: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78ADA14D66 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:10:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.131]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAAA7A; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:09:46 +0100 Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org (abaddon@daemon [192.168.0.1]) by daemon.ninth-circle.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02749; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:09:47 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990318184218.00968ef0@194.184.65.4> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:09:46 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: RE: email program Cc: chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 18-Mar-99 Gianmarco Giovannelli wrote: > > Is there anyone here that can suggest a good program for email. In truth, > I am a little scared by curses interfaces and I prefer a bell and whistle > toy :-) > What about the ZMail (linux/motif) ? XFMail, Balsa (when it stables up willl be nice) or wait for a client I'm writing with a friend =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven asmodai(at)wxs.nl The idea does not replace the work... Network/Security Specialist *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 11:41: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EAD31539E for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:41:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA05454; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:40:34 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990317123427.03e49280@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:35:53 -0700 To: "Jasper O'Malley" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , The Hermit Hacker , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990317093554.03e4dc60@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:54 PM 3/17/99 -0600, Jasper O'Malley wrote: >It's a semantic point, but the IEEE assigns Organizationally Unique >Identifiers, which are 24-bit (not 16-bit) identification numbers that >most network equipment manufacturers use for the first 24 bits of the MAC >address on the equipment they sell. The OUI can and is used for other >things, and lazy/sleazy NIC manufacturers use MAC addresses that have >nothing to do with an OUI. Didn't they began cutting 16-bit slices out of the bigger 24-bit ones to accommodate manufacturers with lower production volumes (and to avoid running out of address space as the Internet is)? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 12:52:24 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dumbo.visionaire.net (visionaire.ping.de [195.37.123.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5418414E99 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thomas@visionaire.ping.de) Received: from dante.visionaire.net [192.168.208.42] (mail) by dumbo.visionaire.net with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 10NK64-0001nC-00; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:27:12 +0100 Received: from thomas by dante.visionaire.net with local (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 10NK5W-0001VE-00; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:26:38 +0100 Message-ID: <19990317182638.A5756@visionaire.ping.de> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:26:38 +0100 From: Thomas Keusch To: Andreas Klemm Cc: US FreeBSD Chat Mailing List , German FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Mail-Followup-To: Andreas Klemm , US FreeBSD Chat Mailing List , German FreeBSD Chat Mailing List References: <19990315190228.A3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <199903152014.PAA13370@y.dyson.net> <19990315222949.C1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <19990315222949.C1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com>; from Andreas Klemm on Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:29:49PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Mar 15, 1999 at 10:29:49PM +0100, Andreas Klemm wrote: Hi Andreas! > To bring in some new flesh here ... I repeated the tests with Linux > Kernel release 2.2.3. And yes, the results are better ... > But we are still 19% better ;-) If the Linux machines are running SuSE Linux, you might consider putting the brand name ``SuSE'' into the News-section of your signature, as the SuSE distribution used to ship with a patched kernel, not the standard one. I don't know if SuSE nowadays still ships their distribution with patched kernels or if they stopped doing it. Did you run the tests with standard or custom kernels, anyway? > Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas > News : FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms Linux 2.2.3 by 19% ;-) ^ -- thomas. .powered.by.debian/linux. irc.:.#chatgate, #frust.ger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 13: 4:26 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4175153DB for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA25298; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:05:49 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:05:48 -0600 (CST) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Brett Glass Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , The Hermit Hacker , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990317123427.03e49280@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > Didn't they began cutting 16-bit slices out of the bigger 24-bit ones > to accommodate manufacturers with lower production volumes (and to > avoid running out of address space as the Internet is)? I hadn't heard that, but that would still mean 40-bit OUIs rather than 16-bit OUIs (a 16-bit OUI is "bigger" than a 24-bit OUI, in terms of address space). Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 13:10:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E12153BC for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id OAA06525; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:10:29 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990317140757.03e94cf0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:10:22 -0700 To: "Jasper O'Malley" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Greg Lehey , The Hermit Hacker , Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990317123427.03e49280@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:05 PM 3/17/99 -0600, Jasper O'Malley wrote: >On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > >> Didn't they began cutting 16-bit slices out of the bigger 24-bit ones >> to accommodate manufacturers with lower production volumes (and to >> avoid running out of address space as the Internet is)? > >I hadn't heard that, but that would still mean 40-bit OUIs rather than >16-bit OUIs (a 16-bit OUI is "bigger" than a 24-bit OUI, in terms of >address space). No, I'm talking about the reverse -- giving smaller manufacturers less space. I haven't heard exactly how many bits they're giving them, but it makes sense -- there are sure to be fewer Sun workstations sold than NICs. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 13:43:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560C115590 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:42:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA25865; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:44:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:44:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990317140757.03e94cf0@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Brett Glass wrote: > No, I'm talking about the reverse -- giving smaller manufacturers less > space. Right, which means an OUI with a larger number of bits. It's the difference between giving someone a 10.x.x.x network (8 bits in the network portion), or a 10.1.1.x network (24 bits in the network portion). More bits in the OUI, fewer non-OUI bits to make unique addresses. Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 13:52:33 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from eagle.plab.ku.dk (eagle.plab.ku.dk [130.225.105.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D75D1531A for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:52:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from voland@eagle.plab.ku.dk) Received: (from voland@localhost) by eagle.plab.ku.dk (8.9.2/8.9.1) id WAA39921; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:52:01 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from voland) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: sjuke@saunalahti.fi To: juksi@iname.com Cc: rainking@shell.futuresouth.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware References: <199903172016.UAA00497@sjukebox.home> From: Vadim Belman In-Reply-To: sjuke@saunalahti.fi's message of "Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:16:11 +0000 (GMT)" Date: 17 Mar 1999 22:52:01 +0100 Message-ID: <85r9qng4xq.fsf@eagle.plab.ku.dk> Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi sjuke! On 17 ÍÁÒ 99 at 21:16, "sjuke" (sjuke ) wrote: sjuke> I didn't download it, but read the information, and i got the sjuke> impression they are going to make a freebsd version themselves, did sjuke> i got it wrong? (it doesn't really bother me if they don't, i think Do they? I haven't found a word about porting issue on the site... -- /Voland Vadim Belman E-mail: voland@plab.ku.dk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 14:42: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nefertiti.lightningweb.com (nefertiti.lightningweb.com [198.68.191.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4304152B4 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:41:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keith@lightningweb.com) Received: from localhost (keith@localhost) by nefertiti.lightningweb.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA22273 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:44:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:44:17 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Woodman To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: subscribe Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe freebsd-chat@freebsd.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Woodman Technical Coordinator Keith@lightningweb.com Lightningweb LLC pid 7962 (sniffit), uid 0: exited on signal 10 (core dumped) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 14:44:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB31B14EA9 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:44:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rainking@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (rainking@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28037; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:44:23 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:44:23 -0600 (CST) From: Owen Barnett To: sjuke@saunalahti.fi Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware In-Reply-To: <199903172016.UAA00497@sjukebox.home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > just try the nt version, it should support freebsd as a child os anyway) > Yeah, I guess, but I'd MUCH rather do it the other way around... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 14:46: 0 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picalon.gun.de (picalon.gun.de [192.109.159.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C81F15222 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:45:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from andreas@klemm.gtn.com) Received: from klemm.gtn.com (pppak04.gtn.com [194.231.123.169]) by picalon.gun.de (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA03337; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:45:34 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by klemm.gtn.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id XAA01991; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:33:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andreas) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:33:57 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm To: Andreas Klemm , US FreeBSD Chat Mailing List , German FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!! Message-ID: <19990317233357.C809@titan.klemm.gtn.com> References: <19990315190228.A3020@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <199903152014.PAA13370@y.dyson.net> <19990315222949.C1238@titan.klemm.gtn.com> <19990317182638.A5756@visionaire.ping.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990317182638.A5756@visionaire.ping.de>; from Thomas Keusch on Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 06:26:38PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE SMP X-Disclaimer: A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 06:26:38PM +0100, Thomas Keusch wrote: > I don't know if SuSE nowadays still ships their distribution with patched > kernels or if they stopped doing it. patched 2.0.36 > Did you run the tests with standard or custom kernels, anyway? custom. otherwise you don't get SMP in FreeBSD and as well in Linux. -- Andreas Klemm http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/~andreas FreeBSD SMP is approximately 120% of Linux SMP http://www.freebsd.org/~andreas/benches/index.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 14:46:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0A11538F for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: from outpost.co.nz (b001-m001-p046.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.167.240.46]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id LAA23282; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:46:25 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199903172246.LAA23282@fep1-orange.clear.net.nz> Received: (qmail 12800 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1999 21:12:44 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.acme.gen.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by evil-smelling-bugger.acme.gen.nz with SMTP; 17 Mar 1999 21:12:44 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:12:23 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: What do people think of May 1st for a 3.2 release date? Reply-To: crh@outpost.co.nz In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gregory Bond wrote: > Well, my 3.1 disks arrived yesterday and at least geographically I'm > about as far away as you can get! No you're not. -- C. -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 16:39:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C3E151A1 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:38:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21732; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:38:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd021639; Wed Mar 17 17:38:08 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA21681; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:38:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903180038.RAA21681@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? To: marko@uk.radan.com (Mark Ovens) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:38:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jamie@itribe.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990316203933.A260@marder-1.localhost> from "Mark Ovens" at Mar 16, 99 08:39:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > How do you change the hostid on a Sun? Aren't they "burnt-in" to > the NVRAM chip? I know that when the NVRAMs fail hostid returns FFFFFFFF. By replacing the hostid(2) system call in the sysent[] table with my own system call. Of course. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 16:40:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE86714C0A for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:40:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22586; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:40:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd022539; Wed Mar 17 17:39:58 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA21834; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:39:57 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903180039.RAA21834@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? To: des@flood.ping.uio.no (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:39:57 +0000 (GMT) Cc: marko@uk.radan.com, scrappy@hub.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Mar 16, 99 10:32:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I find this hilarious. These "experts" jumping up and down about it > > like it is new technology. They obviously don't know that proprietry > > Unix boxes have had this for years. On any Sun, type ``hostid'' at the > > prompt and it'll return a 32-bit hex number. > > The host ID on Sun workstations and servers is not a CPU serial > number, it's a workstation serial number which is stored in NVRAM, and > can be changed. A company I worked at did that to avoid the hassle of > transferring their licenses every time they replaced the machines > (which was quite often, due to the nature of their activities). Actually, I neglected the circuitous route through the forth interpreter. It's actually much easier to just replace the system call, which you can do without needing to reboot. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 17:12:39 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7701527C for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:12:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA05186; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:03:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd004986; Wed Mar 17 19:03:21 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA23802; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:12:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903180112.SAA23802@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Use of "register" in code To: dyson@iquest.net Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:12:00 +0000 (GMT) Cc: imp@harmony.village.org, alk@pobox.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199903170632.BAA03094@y.dyson.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Mar 17, 99 01:32:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > : Firstly, removing "register" declarations from a program can > > : cause correct code to become incorrect code. This is true, not only > > : of ANSI C, but of the GNU C 2 series compilers, as well as other > > : significant current compilers, such as Microsoft and SunPro. > > > > How? I can think of no way that removing the register part of a > > declaration can cause this (eg register int foo -> int foo). > > It is possible because of setjmp type things. However, the use of > register can be replaced by "auto?" Actually, I believe the issue is the change in semantics about the assumptions of the types of optimizations that are allowed under ANSI. The removal of the "register" qualifier in the code in question is freeing up a register for use in promotion of non-register variables to registers during loop unrolling. ANSI broke a lot of functioning code through the requirement for the use of the qualifier "volatile". Use of the qualifier "auto" is supposed to force a stack rather than a register allocation; however, it is still permissable for the compiler to optimize this into a register, for example, when it is doing loop unrolling, as well as several other circumstances (mostly short function for which peeophole optimization can cover the entire function). You can see this behaviour in detail by replacing loop constructs with if/goto constructs, which will "correct" the code in question by removing the unrolling hints to the optimizer. I personally would have been happy if the committe had merely specified that behaviour of an implementation lacking prototypes is implementation defined by the linker and object file formats (and left prototypes out, making IBM and Microsoft resolve the near/far problem in their linkers), and allowing the declaration of signal and interrupt handler *functions*, such that all external references were implicitly volatile, and nothing else was. They could have added a qualifier (nonvolatile) to apply to things that you didn't mid them doing loop unrolling optimizations on. Oh well. We're Microsft's bitch now... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 17:19:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2316F15434 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:19:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10272; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:19:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd010234; Wed Mar 17 18:19:12 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA24131; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:19:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903180119.SAA24131@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Real performance comparisons (was: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!!) To: sas@schell.de (Sascha Schumann) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:19:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: grog@lemis.com, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990317173718.A2510@schell.de> from "Sascha Schumann" at Mar 17, 99 05:37:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This only demonstrates clearly that he lacks basic Linux knowledge. No Linux > distribution ships with a SMP ready kernel. As a matter of fact, I would not > make a benchmark publically available, if I just managed to install a system. Actually, this would be the *only* way I'd make a benchmark available that purported to compare two systems. I would *only* publish benchmarks between tuned systems if it were the same system, with the only difference being the tuning, not the system. The only thing tuned benchmarks are good for is determining the relative fitness of a machine for a particular purpose, out of the box, relative to if you hired an expensive consultant to do the tuning for you. For example, I think task-specific tunings for things like Walnut Creek CDROM grade FTP server should be "packages" that you can install, which deinstall the "general purpose" package (or the "web server purpose" package, etc.) at install time. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 18: 0:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4160152EB for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:00:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09305; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:46:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:46:29 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Owen Barnett Cc: sjuke@saunalahti.fi, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware Message-ID: <19990317194629.W25217@futuresouth.com> References: <199903172016.UAA00497@sjukebox.home> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Owen Barnett on Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 04:44:23PM -0600 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 04:44:23PM -0600, a little birdie told me that Owen Barnett remarked > > > just try the nt version, it should support freebsd as a child os anyway) > > > > Yeah, I guess, but I'd MUCH rather do it the other way around... Well, so run NT under VMware under FreeBSD under VMware under NT. :P --- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller http://www.over-yonder.net/ | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 18: 2:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE8F14D89 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:02:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-15-142.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.15.142]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA10737; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:02:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA88160; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:02:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199903180202.UAA88160@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jacques Vidrine Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Yay-- Mac OS X is open source! Boo-- Smells like GPL! In-reply-to: Message from Jacques Vidrine of "Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:49:29 CST." <199903171849.MAA19696@spawn.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:02:31 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jacques Vidrine writes: > http://www.publicsource.apple.com/ OK, I registered. Now how do I get a runable Darwin for my Mac? -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 18:12:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cerebus.nectar.com (nectar-gw.nectar.com [204.0.249.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A255014D41 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:12:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by cerebus.nectar.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA36438; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:12:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from spawn.nectar.com(10.0.0.101) by cerebus.nectar.com via smap (V2.1) id xma036436; Wed, 17 Mar 99 20:11:56 -0600 Received: from spawn.nectar.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spawn.nectar.com (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA36056; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:11:55 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Message-Id: <199903180211.UAA36056@spawn.nectar.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <199903180202.UAA88160@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: <199903180202.UAA88160@nospam.hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: Yay-- Mac OS X is open source! Boo-- Smells like GPL! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: David Kelly Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:11:55 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Beats me :-) I haven't looked at it just yet. First I have to get a G3 ... Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org On 17 March 1999 at 20:02, David Kelly wrote: > Jacques Vidrine writes: > > http://www.publicsource.apple.com/ > > OK, I registered. Now how do I get a runable Darwin for my Mac? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 19:10:32 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12CF714E4C for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:10:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id EAA10604 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:10:06 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 9F72A8848; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:38:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:38:01 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? Message-ID: <19990318003801.A26251@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317124102.R429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316220756.00cc2340@localhost> <19990317155941.D429@lemis.com> <4.1.19990316223301.00b39760@localhost> <19990317161249.F429@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990317161249.F429@lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 04:12:49PM +1030 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5130 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Greg Lehey: > inet 192.109.197.145 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.109.197.0 > > Look at that crazy broadcast address. 4.2BSD semantics :-( That is the first thing I patched in /etc/rc.local on a SunOS machine... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 19:46:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC36C14C27 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:46:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id TAA23371; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:45:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990317194524.A20900@best.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:45:24 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Jacques Vidrine , David Kelly Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Yay-- Mac OS X is open source! Boo-- Smells like GPL! Mail-Followup-To: Jacques Vidrine , David Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199903180202.UAA88160@nospam.hiwaay.net> <199903180211.UAA36056@spawn.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199903180211.UAA36056@spawn.nectar.com>; from Jacques Vidrine on Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 08:11:55PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 08:11:55PM -0600, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > Beats me :-) I haven't looked at it just yet. First I have > to get a G3 ... > > Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org > > On 17 March 1999 at 20:02, David Kelly wrote: > > Jacques Vidrine writes: > > > http://www.publicsource.apple.com/ > > > > OK, I registered. Now how do I get a runable Darwin for my Mac? > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message I hear the uname on that box said "AppleBSD" .. So anyone got a copy yet to verify? I might get one soon.. -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 20: 6:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from charleston.softhome.net (charleston.SoftHome.net [204.144.231.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF55514D6C for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:06:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bradley@softhome.net) Received: (qmail 30784 invoked by uid 417); 18 Mar 1999 04:26:35 -0000 Received: from max1-ppp-8.cyberix.com (HELO BillyJoeBob) (207.106.53.187) by smtp.softhome.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 1999 04:26:35 -0000 From: "Brad Benson" To: "Gianmarco Giovannelli" Cc: Subject: RE: VMware Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:04:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000001be70f4$7c655760$6400a8c0@BillyJoeBob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <4.1.19990318153114.00995c30@194.184.65.4> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > > >VMware is a tool for using multiple OSes simultaneously. Right now they > >have versions for linux and soon fot NT. > > Ooops, typo .. I wanted to write bochs :-) > In ports/emulators tree > From the way things sound VMware has much higher functionality compared to Bochs. Bochs will emulate an Intel 386 based computer, but has no support for com ports, networks, sound, and direct access to the filesystem. I've used bochs and in it's current form it's good for little more than an interesting and slow toy. It does however show great promise. The VMware product sounds more like a complete and useable package. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 22:11:41 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from uvc.macrowerx.com (uvc.macrowerx.com [207.212.196.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7048C14D27 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:11:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sysjedi@uvc.macrowerx.com) Received: from localhost (sysjedi@localhost) by uvc.macrowerx.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03799 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:35:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:35:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tadhg Christopher Bird Cain To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: VMware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Owen Barnett wrote: > > > just try the nt version, it should support freebsd as a child os anyway) > > > > Yeah, I guess, but I'd MUCH rather do it the other way around... I agree, because no matter how much time I spend in the BSD "window" I would always feel like I was *really* running NT, and my OpSys of choice was being hosted. It just ain't right. If I was them, I would have gone the route of a SoftICE micro OpSys to handle things, and have all the concurrently running Operating Enviroments running under *that* So you would boot thier little micro OpSys, and launch the "real" Operating Systems from that. But thats just me I guess. What the hell do I know all I've been working on lately is perl based Web Toys. :/ -- Tadhg "Christopher" Bird Cain Systems Jedi http://www.MacroWerx.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 17 23:30:43 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from thelab.hub.org (nat193.37.mpoweredpc.net [142.177.193.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9460153A6 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:30:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) Received: from localhost (scrappy@localhost) by thelab.hub.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA02277; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:29:45 -0400 (AST) (envelope-from scrappy@hub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: thelab.hub.org: scrappy owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:29:44 -0400 (AST) From: The Hermit Hacker To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Mark Ovens , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Intel PIII "Anti Piracy Feature"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Address: 131.162.2.45 On 16 Mar 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > The Hermit Hacker writes: > > themis:/var/log> hostid > > 1ff199af > > Hmm, what's that box's IP address? > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 18 0:42:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29819156DC for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:42:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA11679; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:41:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA05608; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:41:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <99031722310402.11541@loki.idea.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Kiril Mitev , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Confusion Cc: Keith Woodman Cc: Keith Woodman , Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 17-Mar-99 Kiril Mitev wrote: > On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Mattias Pantzare furiously typed away: > >> >> This release is primarily aimed at developers and early-adopters, though >> many ISPs have reported good results when using it in production (not that >> we recommend this to any but the most highly skilled). See the release notes >> for more information. >> >> >> This is why you should upgrade to 3.1. > > WELL, exsqueeze me ... > > $ ftp ftp.freebsd.org > .... >> cd /pub/FreeBSD >> dir > ..... > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root 207 19 Jan 21 06:00 FreeBSD-stable -> > branches/3.0-stable > > So, which F-BSD version is -stable ? Please ? When 3.0-RELEASE was released, 3.0 was still the current branch. The 3.0 did not become -stable until mid-January. At that point, 2.2 went from -stable to -dormant, a new -stable branch was forked and named 3.0-stable (since 3.1 wasn't released until a month after this) and -current was renamed to 4.0-current. At the time of 3.0-RELEASE, 3.0 was still -current, however, so 3.0 was not a -stable release. 3.1 was the first -stable release on the 3.x branch. Does it make sense now? > (And, yes, this should be moved to -chat) > > ** Just Another F-BSD LAmer** > > > -- > Kiril > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 18 3:37: 8 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from enst.enst.fr (enst.enst.fr [137.194.2.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 281491538F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 03:37:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beyssac@enst.fr) Received: from email.enst.fr (muse-2.enst.fr [137.194.2.33]) by enst.enst.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12262; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:36:35 +0100 (MET) Received: from bofh.enst.fr (bofh.enst.fr [137.194.32.191]) by email.enst.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02430; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:36:23 +0100 (MET) Received: by bofh.enst.fr (Postfix, from userid 12426) id 8C553D228; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:36:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19990318123602.A9652@enst.fr> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:36:02 +0100 From: Pierre Beyssac To: Brett Glass , Joseph Scott , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux replacing FSF components? References: <4.1.19990317114100.00cf4ac0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990317114100.00cf4ac0@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 11:42:08AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 11:42:08AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > Better still, it appears that the FSF is being exposed for what > it is: a territorial, power-hungry organization. The author's > beef is with the FSF and its use of the GPL to co-opt software. It's just a real shame that Tom Christiansen uses completely bogus statistics to prove his point: % LOC counts in Linux Suse! That's total nonsense. This completely kills his argument: it's not very honest to put stuff as gcc, gawk or GNU sed on the same level of usefulness as any other random utility which just happens to be included in Linux Suse (and God knows there are tons of such stuff). It doesn't take bogus statistics to answer to the FSF. -- Pierre Beyssac pb@enst.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 18 6:25:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 463F7153ED for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:25:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpilgrim@uswest.net) Received: (qmail 11416 invoked by alias); 18 Mar 1999 14:24:46 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 11382 invoked by uid 0); 18 Mar 1999 14:24:46 -0000 Received: from bdsl224.ptld.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (209.180.169.224) by ptldpop1.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 1999 14:24:46 -0000 Message-ID: <36F10CAE.79A62FF7@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:24:46 -0800 From: Nocturne Organization: Neatly stacked heaps of digital chaos X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sascha Schumann Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Real performance comparisons (was: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!!) References: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> <19990317111720.O429@lemis.com> <19990317173718.A2510@schell.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I talked with a friend at considerable length about SMP in Linux vs FreeBSD and we agreed that newer Linux kernels would be faster than FreeBSD. This is going on the thinking that Linux uses a subsystem lock that allows all the CPUs to work on their own parts of the kernel simultaneously--theoretically eliminating processor idle time--whereas FreeBSD's spin lock allows only single CPU access at any given moment. Did we get this right? We don't have SMP hardware to test this idea. (Let me know if I should take this to smp or hackers instead.) -- dpilgrim@uswest.net /\ / __ Our lies are merely the gryph@mindless.com / \/OC/URNE truth of another world ICQ: 29880099 Death is not a kill -9, just a DALnet: anim0s make world and shutdown -r now PGPKey availble To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 18 7:26:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from enst.enst.fr (enst.enst.fr [137.194.2.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA1414BF5 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:26:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from beyssac@enst.fr) Received: from email.enst.fr (muse-2.enst.fr [137.194.2.33]) by enst.enst.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA26677; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:25:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from bofh.enst.fr (bofh.enst.fr [137.194.32.191]) by email.enst.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02585; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:25:57 +0100 (MET) Received: by bofh.enst.fr (Postfix, from userid 12426) id 73E53D228; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:25:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <19990318162551.A10594@enst.fr> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:25:51 +0100 From: Pierre Beyssac To: Nocturne , Sascha Schumann Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Real performance comparisons (was: FreeBSD 3.1 SMP outperforms SuSE 6.0 SMP by factor 2.3 !!!) References: <19990316150715.A3316@schell.de> <19990317111720.O429@lemis.com> <19990317173718.A2510@schell.de> <36F10CAE.79A62FF7@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36F10CAE.79A62FF7@uswest.net>; from Nocturne on Thu, Mar 18, 1999 at 06:24:46AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Mar 18, 1999 at 06:24:46AM -0800, Nocturne wrote: > I talked with a friend at considerable length about SMP in Linux vs > FreeBSD and we agreed that newer Linux kernels would be faster than > FreeBSD. This is going on the thinking that Linux uses a subsystem > lock that allows all the CPUs to work on their own parts of the kernel > simultaneously--theoretically eliminating processor idle time--whereas > FreeBSD's spin lock allows only single CPU access at any given moment. As others have said before, this all depends on your application. For pure-CPU jobs with little or no system calls, the granularity of the kernel lock doesn't matter at all. Very thin lock granularity is not the panacea either, as you can end up spending a lot of overhead just for taking/releasing locks. This can really happen if your processes are very system-call intensive. Thus it's necessary to find a balance between lock granularity and overhead that fits most applications. -- Pierre Beyssac pb@enst.fr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 18 10: 0:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F72B14BCF for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:00:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA15891; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:00:16 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990318090615.03f77b20@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:08:35 -0700 To: Pierre Beyssac , Joseph Scott , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux replacing FSF components? In-Reply-To: <19990318123602.A9652@enst.fr> References: <4.1.19990317114100.00cf4ac0@localhost> <4.1.19990317114100.00cf4ac0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:36 PM 3/18/99 +0100, Pierre Beyssac wrote: >It's just a real shame that Tom Christiansen uses completely bogus >statistics to prove his point: % LOC counts in Linux Suse! That's >total nonsense. I'm not so sure. Proponents of the GPL have frequently based arguments on % lines-of-code figures. (Tom's figures are actually based on bytes of source and object code.) >This completely kills his argument: it's not very honest to put >stuff as gcc, gawk or GNU sed on the same level of usefulness as >any other random utility which just happens to be included in Linux >Suse (and God knows there are tons of such stuff). Ah, but then one gets into an endless argument over how much weight each should carry. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Mar 18 17:12:28 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (unknown [208.149.16.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 831C714E82; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:12:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA70755; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:09:20 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from alk) From: Anthony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:09:20 -0600 (CST) X-Face: \h9Jg:Cuivl4S*UP-)gO.6O=T]]@ncM*tn4zG);)lk#4|lqEx=*talx?.Gk,dMQU2)ptPC17cpBzm(l'M|H8BUF1&]dDCxZ.c~Wy6-j,^V1E(NtX$FpkkdnJixsJHE95JlhO 5\M3jh'YiO7KPCn0~W`Ro44_TB@&JuuqRqgPL'0/{):7rU-%.*@/>q?1&Ed Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SKIP on 3.1 References: <199903182204.OAA94934@bubba.whistle.com> <36F18016.5BA99C21@utcorp.com> <19990319001124.A6669@keltia.freenix.fr> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14065.41601.661191.482612@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Quoth Ollivier Robert on Fri, 19 March: : According to Kurt Seel: : > The only caveat for is that I can't talk to the far 10.x net from one of : > the routers :-( : : That's why NAT & RFC-1918 address space usage is evil. Why? Have you determined the cause of the failure, and found that the tunnel/NAT were correctly configured, but protocol constraints prevent any configuration from operating nominally? : End-to-end connec- : tivity is not garanteed any more and that breaks a lot of things. When was end-to-end connectivity ever guaranteed? In a blocks-world, perhaps. : I know : people have problem getting addresses but that should push IPv6 more, not : promote hacks such as NAT. I must confess great skepticism regarding v6. It has been all talk for 10 years now. There is so much v4 equipment installed out there that v6 will remain a ghetto for the next decade -- at least. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 19 18:52: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nebraska.utcorp.com (nebraska.utcorp.com [146.145.135.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 403DA152ED for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:51:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kseel@utcorp.com) Received: from utcorp.com (x-kspc.utcorp.com [146.145.135.17]) by nebraska.utcorp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA27233 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:31:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F30DAD.A0434F06@utcorp.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:53:33 -0500 From: Kurt Seel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SKIP on 3.1 References: <199903182204.OAA94934@bubba.whistle.com> <36F18016.5BA99C21@utcorp.com> <19990319001124.A6669@keltia.freenix.fr> <14065.41601.661191.482612@avalon.east> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------660A65FAD92D1416011B0B88" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------660A65FAD92D1416011B0B88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anthony Kimball wrote: > Quoth Ollivier Robert on Fri, 19 March: > : According to Kurt Seel: > : > The only caveat for is that I can't talk to the far 10.x net from one of > : > the routers :-( > : > : That's why NAT & RFC-1918 address space usage is evil. > > Why? Have you determined the cause of the failure, and found > that the tunnel/NAT were correctly configured, but protocol > constraints prevent any configuration from operating nominally? > No, no, no. It has nothing to do with 'evil'. It has to do with what interface a socket gets opened on. I can't use iptunnel : http://www.ucb.crimea.ua/~ru/FreeBSD/iptunnel/ to redirect the default route's interface!!! It would be a catch-22. Iptunnel is a simple tunnelling util (thanks, Ruslan!) designed to solve problems simply and today. I hope my children live to see an ipv6 internet! -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 --------------660A65FAD92D1416011B0B88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anthony Kimball wrote:
Quoth Ollivier Robert on Fri, 19 March:
: According to Kurt Seel:
: >  The only caveat for is that I can't talk to the far 10.x net from one of
: > the routers :-(
:
: That's why NAT & RFC-1918 address space usage is evil.

Why?  Have you determined the cause of the failure, and found
that the tunnel/NAT were correctly configured, but protocol
constraints prevent any configuration from operating nominally?
 

 No, no, no. It has nothing to do with 'evil'. It
has to do with what interface a socket gets opened
on. I can't use iptunnel :
http://www.ucb.crimea.ua/~ru/FreeBSD/iptunnel/
to redirect the default route's interface!!! It
would be a catch-22. Iptunnel is a simple tunnelling
util (thanks, Ruslan!) designed to solve problems
simply and today.
 I hope my children live to see an ipv6 internet!
-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
  --------------660A65FAD92D1416011B0B88-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 19 22:44: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A2414D2A for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:43:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@mediaone.net) Received: from mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-137.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.137]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17358 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:43:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:45:53 -0800 From: Joey Garcia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey all, Here's my IT story. Finally, I landed a job working as a Computer Operator last year (after a long time trying to get into the IT field) in December. Basically, I'm working with an AS/400 (doing print job work), maintaining PC's, and now doing the preliminary work of installing a Network. This place has been pretty much an IBM shop for many years. A lot of the company still have terminals instead of PC's. Those that do have PC's, access the mainframe through emulation cards. When they need to access the internet, they use dial-up modems to an internet account. My Boss (the MIS manager) has been replacing some of the Terminals with Compaq PC's purchased at Comp USA. Compaq's running Windows 98, with 3D speakers, games, etc. Why? I dunno. They don't seem to be business PC's to me, but I'm new so I have to just go with the flow. We're also moving some departments onto the new network and we're trying out different emulation software to get the the mainframe. (Actually, I'm having fun doing that.) I had a FreeBSD DNS server, pop3 server, and Web server running for awhile but no one really took any notice of it. The one other guy that I'm working with is more of an NT guy. He likes the NT and Microsoft toys. Well, my server went down because we ran out of network cards and we needed another for a loaner PC. I was sad, but FreeBSD without the Internet was boring anyways. Although, I was interested in finding some nuking software to nuke the Accounting NT server to prove that MS sucks. Either that, or some cracking software to prove to them that NT sucks even more. hehehe J/K (I guess some might frown upon that type of behavior on this list, but it would prove a point wouldn't it? -- I'm pretty sure that a teardrop attack would bring every PC there down to it's knees. -- Could I send a teardrop attack to a broadcast IP and cripple everyone? -- Would be interesting to try *grin*.) Right now my biggest problem is the non-business PC's, hardware accounting, network setup and accounting, and trying to get people not to install software. I wouldn't mind a heterogeneous networking environment. I think FreeBSD and NT could work together quite well. Face it, some users have a hard time with Windows 9x, imagine them trying to figure out how to use Unix. But, using FreeBSD as a Intranet Web Server, or Email Server, or Firewall (maybe someday we'll get on the Internet full time) would be really interesting. Actually, I have no idea where I'm taking this. I just sort of wanted to vent. Maybe I could get some ideas, comments, advice on how to work with all these problems. Sincerly, Joey Garcia (Troubled IT Professional) -- I think I'm considered one of those now. *shrug* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 19 23: 1:31 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1B114C82 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:01:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990320070204.BFOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker>; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:02:04 +1300 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Joey Garcia Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:01:32 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990320070204.BFOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 19 Mar 99, at 22:45, Joey Garcia wrote: > Although, I was interested in finding some > nuking software to nuke the Accounting NT server to prove that MS > sucks. Either that, or some cracking software to prove to them that NT > sucks even more. hehehe J/K (I guess some might frown upon that type of > behavior on this list, but it would prove a point wouldn't it? -- I'm > pretty sure that a teardrop attack would bring every PC there down to > it's knees. -- Could I send a teardrop attack to a broadcast IP and > cripple everyone? -- Would be interesting to try *grin*.) For someone just entering the IT field, you might just have a short career. In some places, even statements like this made as a joke are frowned on. Be careful. Your employers might hear about it. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Mar 19 23: 1:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nefertiti.lightningweb.com (nefertiti.lightningweb.com [198.68.191.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF2A153A9 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:01:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keith@lightningweb.com) Received: from localhost (keith@localhost) by nefertiti.lightningweb.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01386; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:03:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:03:23 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Woodman To: Joey Garcia Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations In-Reply-To: <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Great story. I am sure there are tons of these around, can probably dig a few of my own up as well.. At the end of this mail you make a comment that was made in humor I think, but actualy raises a great question.. At what point does one become an IT profesional ?? Is there some threshold of kewlness one has to pass to reach the title. :-) Keith ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Woodman Technical Coordinator Keith@lightningweb.com Lightningweb LLC pid 7962 (sniffit), uid 0: exited on signal 10 (core dumped) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Joey Garcia wrote: > > Hey all, > > Here's my IT story. > > Finally, I landed a job working as a Computer Operator last year (after > a long time trying to get into the IT field) in December. Basically, > I'm working with an AS/400 (doing print job work), maintaining PC's, and > now doing the preliminary work of installing a Network. > > This place has been pretty much an IBM shop for many years. A lot of > the company still have terminals instead of PC's. Those that do have > PC's, access the mainframe through emulation cards. When they need to > access the internet, they use dial-up modems to an internet account. > > My Boss (the MIS manager) has been replacing some of the Terminals with > Compaq PC's purchased at Comp USA. Compaq's running Windows 98, with 3D > speakers, games, etc. Why? I dunno. They don't seem to be business > PC's to me, but I'm new so I have to just go with the flow. We're also > moving some departments onto the new network and we're trying out > different emulation software to get the the mainframe. (Actually, I'm > having fun doing that.) > > I had a FreeBSD DNS server, pop3 server, and Web server running for > awhile but no one really took any notice of it. The one other guy that > I'm working with is more of an NT guy. He likes the NT and Microsoft > toys. Well, my server went down because we ran out of network cards and > we needed another for a loaner PC. I was sad, but FreeBSD without the > Internet was boring anyways. Although, I was interested in finding some > nuking software to nuke the Accounting NT server to prove that MS > sucks. Either that, or some cracking software to prove to them that NT > sucks even more. hehehe J/K (I guess some might frown upon that type of > behavior on this list, but it would prove a point wouldn't it? -- I'm > pretty sure that a teardrop attack would bring every PC there down to > it's knees. -- Could I send a teardrop attack to a broadcast IP and > cripple everyone? -- Would be interesting to try *grin*.) > > Right now my biggest problem is the non-business PC's, hardware > accounting, network setup and accounting, and trying to get people not > to install software. I wouldn't mind a heterogeneous networking > environment. I think FreeBSD and NT could work together quite well. > Face it, some users have a hard time with Windows 9x, imagine them > trying to figure out how to use Unix. But, using FreeBSD as a Intranet > Web Server, or Email Server, or Firewall (maybe someday we'll get on the > Internet full time) would be really interesting. > > Actually, I have no idea where I'm taking this. I just sort of wanted > to vent. Maybe I could get some ideas, comments, advice on how to work > with all these problems. > > Sincerly, > > Joey Garcia > (Troubled IT Professional) -- I think I'm considered one of those now. > *shrug* > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 0:40:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from corp.au.triax.com (slwag1p19.ozemail.com.au [203.108.157.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043A914ED3 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:40:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@corp.au.triax.com) Received: (from jim@localhost) by corp.au.triax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00482; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:39:37 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:39:36 +1100 From: Jim Mock To: Joey Garcia Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations Message-ID: <19990320193936.A448@corp.au.triax.com> Reply-To: jim@corp.au.triax.com References: <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.96.1i In-Reply-To: <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 at 22:45:53 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: [snip..] > Although, I was interested in finding some nuking software to nuke > the Accounting NT server to prove that MS sucks. Either that, or > some cracking software to prove to them that NT sucks even more. > hehehe J/K (I guess some might frown upon that type of behavior on > this list, but it would prove a point wouldn't it? -- I'm pretty > sure that a teardrop attack would bring every PC there down to it's > knees. -- Could I send a teardrop attack to a broadcast IP and > cripple everyone? -- Would be interesting to try *grin*.) > I tried this out of curiousity on our office LAN about a year and half ago. None of the winblows boxes had any patches to protect against teardrop, so in an effort to show the owner what could happen (I had his permission to do this of course), I teardropped our broadcast address. I wasn't sure if it would work or not, but a few seconds later cries of agony could heard throughout the office as everyone's system locked up (they should've listened when we told them to save what they were working on). On another note, I'd highly recommend against doing this unless your co-workers and boss know that you're going to do it (and give you permission to do it), otherwise you could end up pissing some people off that you normally don't want pissed off at you =) If they get pissed off enough, you could find yourself looking for a new job in a hurry. Later, -- Jim Mock System Administrator jim@corp.au.triax.com ,-._|\ FreeBSD work: Triax Internet Services http://www.triax.com/ / \ The personal: http://www.triax.com/~jim/ \_,--._/ Power To The FreeBSD 'zine http://www.freebsdzine.org/ v Serve! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 3:12:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85671507D for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 03:12:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:13:20 +1300 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:12:55 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 4:24:23 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C5914F86; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 04:24:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA01674; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:23:56 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:23:56 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 1998 Bugs In-Reply-To: <36EE9750.AB88915E@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > I think that would be a good idea. My take on this is that we should > > have a team of people that take responsibility for handling PRs, and > > that each incoming PR should be assigned to one of the people on the > > team. That person has the responsibility for handling the PR *in some > > fashion*. This could be > > * To commit a patch > > * To track down the correct person for fixing this PR and transferring > > the responsibility > > * To reply to the person that originally sent the PR, attempting to > > get hold of more information > > * To decline a suggestion for change > > * To identify this is a correct PR, stamp it with 'correct problem > > report', and put it on active status. > > > > The clue is just that the person does _something_ about the PR, > > instead of leaving both the PR and the person sending it high 'n dry, > > with no response at all from FreeBSD. > > That was my general feeling. > > > Technically, I would implement the above scheme as a two-part system: > > 1. A cronjob that goes through all new PRs every night, and assigns > > them to people from a list of PR tag team members. (Round-robin > > fashion, of course). > > 2. A small setuid program for adding and removing people from said > > list. > > > > I'm willing to be on such a team if 10 other committers also are - if > > I get 10 volunteers, I'll write up the code. > > I'd volunteer, too. There is a few problems we have to plan for, > though. > > * How do we deal with "disappearing" volunteers? > If the status of the prs > * How do we deal with volunteers that lagged too much and then > discover they won't be able to deal with the problems assigned to > them? > Every volunteer has a "weight" (or lightness) associated with him/herself. A weight they can change themselves. If they see something coming up that will dramatically eat up their availbale free time, they will set it to lower or even to zero. > * Life happens; people should belong to this list if they have *the > time* to handle it. That means people should be relatively free to > bug out when they feel they won't be able to handle the load. And > that means there will be times when there are too few volunteers, > which would be swamped with PRs. > Definately. > I suggest "hard limits" on the number of PRs per volunteer to be > handed out each day. When the limit is reached, the PRs get queued > until the next day. > > Or any number or variants on the above. > > Anyway, we have to deal with the general problem of having the > person to which a PR was assigned not handle it. > > -- > Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) > dcs@newsguy.com > dcs@freebsd.org > > "What happened?" > "It moved, sir!" > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 5:37: 3 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38BB214D3E for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 05:36:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01797; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001771; Sat Mar 20 07:31:14 1999 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA04990; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:36:26 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199903201336.GAA04990@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: SKIP on 3.1 To: alk@pobox.com Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:36:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <14065.41601.661191.482612@avalon.east> from "Anthony Kimball" at Mar 18, 99 07:09:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > : > The only caveat for is that I can't talk to the far 10.x net from one of > : > the routers :-( > : > : That's why NAT & RFC-1918 address space usage is evil. > > Why? Have you determined the cause of the failure, and found > that the tunnel/NAT were correctly configured, but protocol > constraints prevent any configuration from operating nominally? Actually, I have an Internet draft in the works on this; it's currently undergoing peer review prior to being sent off to the IETF. The problem boils down to proxying DNS data between primaries; all of the other issues are already covered by other drafts; see the drafts in the dnsind working group at www.ietf.org. For private-net to private-net addressing, you need to do addres block translation; this basically means that going from one 10.x/16 net to another, you have to ensure a unique value for "x" between the nets and/or block translate when crossing the net/net demarcation. For external-to-private net addressing, you don't use the default route. Instead, you use a GRE link to the NAT machine, and on the NAT machine, assign the tunnel an IP address in the local 10 block, and alias the LAN-side interface. Running PPP over the GRE, you assign the external machine the internal 10 interface IP address. Then set routing for the 10 network on the exterior machine to the local PPP interface. Effectively, this puts the external machine on the internal network with an internal network address. Yeah, this is complicated, but it's Best Current Practice. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 8: 6: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.240.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 411B915493 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:05:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) Received: from Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu ([132.170.240.30]:45076 "HELO pegasus.cc.ucf.edu" ident: "ewayte") by pegasus.cc.ucf.edu with SMTP id <4447-14267>; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:01:01 -0500 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:00:59 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Wayte To: Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org In-Reply-To: <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have taken the liberty of posting this link on www.freebsdrocks.com and FreeBSD-advocacy. ...I'm still laughing! Eric Wayte Database Administrator University of Central Florida ewayte@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:12:55 +1300 > From: Dan Langille > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org > > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html > > -- > Dan Langille > The FreeBSD Diary > http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 8:26:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF5B14C3F for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:26:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@mediaone.net) Received: from mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-137.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.137]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29726 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:25:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F3CCA1.DFDCFA29@mediaone.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:28:17 -0800 From: Joey Garcia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations References: <19990320070204.BFOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dan Langille wrote: > > On 19 Mar 99, at 22:45, Joey Garcia wrote: > > > Although, I was interested in finding some > > nuking software to nuke the Accounting NT server to prove that MS > > sucks. Either that, or some cracking software to prove to them that NT > > sucks even more. hehehe J/K (I guess some might frown upon that type of > > behavior on this list, but it would prove a point wouldn't it? -- I'm > > pretty sure that a teardrop attack would bring every PC there down to > > it's knees. -- Could I send a teardrop attack to a broadcast IP and > > cripple everyone? -- Would be interesting to try *grin*.) > > For someone just entering the IT field, you might just have a short > career. In some places, even statements like this made as a joke are > frowned on. Be careful. Your employers might hear about it. > Oh don't worry, I really wouldn't do it. I guess I have been just frustrated with work that I was thinking malicious thoughts. *grin* Although, would be interesting to find out what would happen. But right now I'm more concerned about the NT's security. I want to make sure that it doesn't have any obvious holes. Joey > -- > Dan Langille > The FreeBSD Diary > http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 8:34:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5582A15040 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@mediaone.net) Received: from mediaone.net (we-24-130-60-137.we.mediaone.net [24.130.60.137]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA01573 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:34:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F3CE8E.AA1F2EBE@mediaone.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:36:30 -0800 From: Joey Garcia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations References: <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> <19990320193936.A448@corp.au.triax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jim Mock wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 at 22:45:53 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > [snip..] > > Although, I was interested in finding some nuking software to nuke > > the Accounting NT server to prove that MS sucks. Either that, or > > some cracking software to prove to them that NT sucks even more. > > hehehe J/K (I guess some might frown upon that type of behavior on > > this list, but it would prove a point wouldn't it? -- I'm pretty > > sure that a teardrop attack would bring every PC there down to it's > > knees. -- Could I send a teardrop attack to a broadcast IP and > > cripple everyone? -- Would be interesting to try *grin*.) > > > > I tried this out of curiousity on our office LAN about a year and half > ago. None of the winblows boxes had any patches to protect against > teardrop, so in an effort to show the owner what could happen (I had > his permission to do this of course), I teardropped our broadcast > address. I wasn't sure if it would work or not, but a few seconds > later cries of agony could heard throughout the office as everyone's > system locked up (they should've listened when we told them to save > what they were working on). > Well, if you say it work then that's good enough for me. :) Besides I get enough calls in a day from people asking me what a GPF is and I really don't need them to be asking me what a "Blue Screen of Death" means. heheh I'll just take your word for it. :) > On another note, I'd highly recommend against doing this unless your > co-workers and boss know that you're going to do it (and give you > permission to do it), otherwise you could end up pissing some people > off that you normally don't want pissed off at you =) If they get > pissed off enough, you could find yourself looking for a new job in a > hurry. Considering I like my job, I won't be doing it. Although, no one there knows what a teardrop is, so I really wouldn't worry too much about it so as long as I don't pull a Monica Lewinski (you know, if she would have just kept her mouth shut, no one would have even known a thing). Joey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 9:57:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from www.giovannelli.it (kirk.giovannelli.it [194.184.65.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F3914D64 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:57:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gmarco@giovannelli.it) Received: from suzy (modem36.masternet.it [194.184.65.46]) by www.giovannelli.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA23101 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:33:07 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.1.19990320183224.009d8aa0@194.184.65.4> X-Sender: gmarco@194.184.65.4 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:34:38 +0100 To: chat@freebsd.org From: Gianmarco Giovannelli Subject: a way to make the /etc/rc.conf Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org edit a copy of /etc/defaults/rc.conf and then : diff -u rc.conf.original rc.conf | grep ^+ | grep -v ^+++ | cut -c 2- I know for a lot of people it will be unusefull but I liked it and it is only a few byte msg :-) Best Regards, Gianmarco Giovannelli , "Unix expert since yesterday" http://www.giovannelli.it/~gmarco http://www2.masternet.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 9:57:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.physics.montana.edu (peloton.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3296614D00 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:57:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13650; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:56:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:56:54 -0700 (MST) From: Brett Taylor To: Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org In-Reply-To: <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Dan Langille wrote: > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html Hahaha - this is great! Brett *********************************************************** Brett Taylor brett@peloton.physics.montana.edu * brett@daemonnews.org * * http://www.daemonnews.org/ * *********************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 12: 3: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7D414C10 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:03:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13475; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:02:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:02:38 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org Message-ID: <19990320140238.A14865@futuresouth.com> References: <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 12:12:55AM +1300 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 12:12:55AM +1300, a little birdie told me that Dan Langille remarked > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html Guess our letter writing campaign worked :) Don't TELL me I was the only one whose first thought on seeing the 'dist wars' was 'Hey, they'll agree on FreeBSD', and mailed the comment in! --- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller http://www.over-yonder.net/ | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * is because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 12:45:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (news-ma.rhein-neckar.de [193.197.90.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D853152CE for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:44:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: from mips.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@localhost) by news-ma.rhein-neckar.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with bsmtp id VAA02064 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:44:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de) Received: by mips.rhein-neckar.de id m10OQ0W-000WyXC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:58:00 +0100 (CET) From: naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org Date: 20 Mar 1999 18:57:57 +0100 Message-ID: <7d0nj5$sdv$1@mips.rhein-neckar.de> References: <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dan Langille wrote: > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html This is of course taken straight from the talks given by Jon "maddog" Hall. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.rhein-neckar.de LinuxTag '99 - 26./27. Juni, Uni Kaiserslautern - http://www.linuxtag.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 13:22:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from terror.hungry.com (terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2451314DD4 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:22:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@hungry.com) Received: (qmail 13367 invoked by uid 0); 20 Mar 1999 21:21:51 -0000 Received: from siren.hungry.com (undead@199.181.107.129) by terror.hungry.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 1999 21:21:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 10155 invoked by uid 507); 20 Mar 1999 21:21:52 -0000 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: email program References: <4.1.19990318184218.00968ef0@194.184.65.4> From: Faried Nawaz <__undead@knife.nilpotent.org> Date: 20 Mar 1999 13:21:52 -0800 In-Reply-To: gmarco@giovannelli.it's message of "17 Mar 1999 11:42:25 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 6 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org gmarco@giovannelli.it (Gianmarco Giovannelli) writes: Is there anyone here that can suggest a good program for email. In truth, I am a little scared by curses interfaces and I prefer a bell and whistle toy :-) gnus, inside XEmacs. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 13:26:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from terror.hungry.com (terror.hungry.com [199.181.107.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D45B14E85 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:26:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fn@hungry.com) Received: (qmail 13744 invoked by uid 0); 20 Mar 1999 21:25:51 -0000 Received: from siren.hungry.com (undead@199.181.107.129) by terror.hungry.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 1999 21:25:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 10159 invoked by uid 507); 20 Mar 1999 21:25:52 -0000 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source License References: <199903170342.WAA14721@arutam.inch.com> From: Faried Nawaz <__undead@knife.nilpotent.org> Date: 20 Mar 1999 13:25:52 -0800 In-Reply-To: freyes@inch.com's message of "16 Mar 1999 19:45:36 -0800" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org freyes@inch.com (Francisco Reyes) writes: On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:27:31 -0500, W Gerald Hicks wrote: >One more for the collection: >http://www.publicsource.apple.com/apsl.html A total joke. Try http://lwn.net/1999/0318/a/raymond.html for some clarifications on the license. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 13:39:29 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B329415108 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:39:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA09800; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:09:03 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA89869; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:08:55 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990321080855.W429@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:08:55 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Matthew D. Fuller" , Dan Langille Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org References: <19990320111320.CBOG682101.mta1-rme@wocker> <19990320140238.A14865@futuresouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990320140238.A14865@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 02:02:38PM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 20 March 1999 at 14:02:38 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > On Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 12:12:55AM +1300, a little birdie told me > that Dan Langille remarked >> http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html > > Guess our letter writing campaign worked :) > > Don't TELL me I was the only one whose first thought on seeing the 'dist > wars' was 'Hey, they'll agree on FreeBSD', and mailed the comment in! Right, I did too :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 13:43: 9 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3C114E80 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:43:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990320214418.BGXJ4977319.mta2-rme@wocker>; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:44:18 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Greg Lehey Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:43:36 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990321080855.W429@lemis.com> References: <19990320140238.A14865@futuresouth.com>; from Matthew D. Fuller on Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 02:02:38PM -0600 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990320214418.BGXJ4977319.mta2-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21 Mar 99, at 8:08, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Saturday, 20 March 1999 at 14:02:38 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 12:12:55AM +1300, a little birdie told me > > that Dan Langille remarked > >> http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html > > > > Guess our letter writing campaign worked :) > > > > Don't TELL me I was the only one whose first thought on seeing the 'dist > > wars' was 'Hey, they'll agree on FreeBSD', and mailed the comment in! > > Right, I did too :-) Well, I never considered it actually. I previously felt that user friendly, like slashdot, was a linux advocate. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 13:55:10 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C5E1504B for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 13:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA09852; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:24:46 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA89899; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:24:45 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19990321082445.Y429@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:24:45 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org References: <19990320140238.A14865@futuresouth.com>; <19990321080855.W429@lemis.com> <19990320214418.BGXJ4977319.mta2-rme@wocker> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990320214418.BGXJ4977319.mta2-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 09:43:36AM +1200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 21 March 1999 at 9:43:36 +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > On 21 Mar 99, at 8:08, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Saturday, 20 March 1999 at 14:02:38 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: >>> On Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 12:12:55AM +1300, a little birdie told me >>> that Dan Langille remarked >>>> http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html >>> >>> Guess our letter writing campaign worked :) >>> >>> Don't TELL me I was the only one whose first thought on seeing the 'dist >>> wars' was 'Hey, they'll agree on FreeBSD', and mailed the comment in! >> >> Right, I did too :-) > > Well, I never considered it actually. I previously felt that user > friendly, like slashdot, was a linux advocate. I think that's a danger for many people. They seem to be solidly in the ISP arena, which suggests that they're anti-Microsoft, but the fact they didn't mention FreeBSD previously just suggests that they didn't think about it. So are we all individually going to send them a big thank you? We don't want this to be the last mention of FreeBSD. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 14:15:18 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568A214F37 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:15:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990320221538.DSVL682101.mta1-rme@wocker>; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:15:38 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Greg Lehey Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:15:28 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19990321082445.Y429@lemis.com> References: <19990320214418.BGXJ4977319.mta2-rme@wocker>; from Dan Langille on Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 09:43:36AM +1200 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990320221538.DSVL682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21 Mar 99, at 8:24, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 21 March 1999 at 9:43:36 +1200, Dan Langille wrote: > > On 21 Mar 99, at 8:08, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > >> On Saturday, 20 March 1999 at 14:02:38 -0600, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > >>> On Sun, Mar 21, 1999 at 12:12:55AM +1300, a little birdie told me > >>> that Dan Langille remarked > >>>> http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html > >>> > >>> Guess our letter writing campaign worked :) > >>> > >>> Don't TELL me I was the only one whose first thought on seeing the 'dist > >>> wars' was 'Hey, they'll agree on FreeBSD', and mailed the comment in! > >> > >> Right, I did too :-) > > > > Well, I never considered it actually. I previously felt that user > > friendly, like slashdot, was a linux advocate. > > I think that's a danger for many people. They seem to be solidly in > the ISP arena, which suggests that they're anti-Microsoft, but the > fact they didn't mention FreeBSD previously just suggests that they > didn't think about it. Fair enough. It seems to be always linux this and linux that. FreeBSD can be found if you search. > So are we all individually going to send them a big thank you? We > don't want this to be the last mention of FreeBSD. I did that before I posted the msg here. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 14:33:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEAC14CE4 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:33:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id XAA22685; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:33:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: Greg Lehey Cc: junkmale@xtra.co.nz, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org References: <19990320140238.A14865@futuresouth.com>; <19990321080855.W429@lemis.com> <19990320214418.BGXJ4977319.mta2-rme@wocker> <19990321082445.Y429@lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 20 Mar 1999 23:33:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:24:45 +1030" Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > So are we all individually going to send them a big thank you? We > don't want this to be the last mention of FreeBSD. Actually, I expect to meet Iliad in the flesh during Easter. As you can see on http://www.userfriendly.org/, he's coming to TG, where I'm one of four Unix admins... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 14:37:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E88514E6E for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:37:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from junkmale@pop3.xtra.co.nz) Received: from wocker ([210.55.164.76]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v04.00.02.07 201-227-108) with SMTP id <19990320223828.DVHF682101.mta1-rme@wocker>; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:38:28 +1200 From: "Dan Langille" Organization: The FreeBSD Diary To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:37:29 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org Reply-To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Greg Lehey's message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:24:45 +1030" In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-Id: <19990320223828.DVHF682101.mta1-rme@wocker> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 20 Mar 99, at 23:33, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: > > So are we all individually going to send them a big thank you? We > > don't want this to be the last mention of FreeBSD. > > Actually, I expect to meet Iliad in the flesh during Easter. As you > can see on http://www.userfriendly.org/, he's coming to TG, where I'm > one of four Unix admins... What is TG? -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary http://www.FreeBSDDiary.com/freebsd To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 14:40:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912A014D56 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:40:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.2/8.9.1) id XAA22780; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 23:39:51 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: junkmale@xtra.co.nz Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org References: Greg Lehey's message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:24:45 +1030" <19990320223828.DVHF682101.mta1-rme@wocker> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 20 Mar 1999 23:39:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Dan Langille"'s message of "Sun, 21 Mar 1999 10:37:29 +1200" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Dan Langille" writes: > On 20 Mar 99, at 23:33, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Greg Lehey writes: > > > So are we all individually going to send them a big thank you? We > > > don't want this to be the last mention of FreeBSD. > > Actually, I expect to meet Iliad in the flesh during Easter. As you > > can see on http://www.userfriendly.org/, he's coming to TG, where I'm > > one of four Unix admins... > What is TG? Biggest LAN-party in the world: DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 16:26: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA10B14FA2 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:25:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.1/frmug-2.3/nospam) with UUCP id BAA09469 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:25:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id E520387B6; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:45:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:45:17 +0100 From: Ollivier Robert To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD on userfriendly.org Message-ID: <19990321004517.C20907@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19990320140238.A14865@futuresouth.com>; <19990321080855.W429@lemis.com> <19990320214418.BGXJ4977319.mta2-rme@wocker> <19990321082445.Y429@lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/0.95.3i In-Reply-To: ; from Dag-Erling Smorgrav on Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 11:33:20PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT/ELF ctm#5130 AMD-K6 MMX @ 200 MHz Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Dag-Erling Smorgrav: > Actually, I expect to meet Iliad in the flesh during Easter. As you > can see on http://www.userfriendly.org/, he's coming to TG, where I'm > one of four Unix admins... Thank him for us, please :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 4.0-CURRENT #70: Sat Feb 27 09:43:08 CET 1999 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 18: 4:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (mail1.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD1514FC4 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:04:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-68-167.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.68.167]) by mail1.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21244; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:03:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA54215; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:54:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: __undead@knife.nilpotent.org Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source License In-Reply-To: Your message of "20 Mar 1999 13:25:52 -0800" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990320205440K.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:54:40 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 32 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Um... Ok. I didn't make a value judgement but was interested in hearing them from others. I guess it worked :-) Still, I'm happy to see the availability of code from major vendors, no matter how half-hearted the attempt. It's got more people thinking about the source code and I believe that this is good for our profession. What I found sort of interesting about the website was Eric Raymond's presence proclaiming Apple's "innovativeness". I wish they had aligned themselves better with the BSD community. Perhaps this can still happen? Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net From: Faried Nawaz <__undead@knife.nilpotent.org> Subject: Re: Apple's Open Source License > freyes@inch.com (Francisco Reyes) writes: > > On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:27:31 -0500, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > > >One more for the collection: > >http://www.publicsource.apple.com/apsl.html > > A total joke. > > Try http://lwn.net/1999/0318/a/raymond.html for some clarifications on the > license. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 20 19:23:25 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (mail0.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C8F1503C for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 19:22:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wghicks@bellsouth.net) Received: from wghicks.bellsouth.net (host-209-214-68-167.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.68.167]) by mail0.atl.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA03397; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:22:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (wghicks@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wghicks.bellsouth.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA60860; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:13:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net) To: gummibear@mediaone.net Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:45:53 -0800" <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> References: <36F34421.3D08E80B@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on XEmacs 20.4 (Emerald) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990320221326O.wghicks@wghicks.bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:13:26 -0500 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 28 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Joey Garcia Subject: Working in the IT Field - Trials and Tribulations Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:45:53 -0800 [snips] > Actually, I have no idea where I'm taking this. I just sort of wanted > to vent. Maybe I could get some ideas, comments, advice on how to work > with all these problems. > > Sincerly, > > Joey Garcia > (Troubled IT Professional) -- I think I'm considered one of those now. > *shrug* I've made a fair amount of money over the years solving interop issues between IBM midrange systems and Unix. It's a lucrative field full of opportunities. The AS400 systems are very different from Unix but are highly functional systems once you understand them. Learn how to make the AS400 database interoperate efficiently with FreeBSD-hosted web servers and I'll bet the world will beat a path to your door. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message