From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 28 22:52:22 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from freedom.cybertouch.org (freedom.cybertouch.org [216.183.2.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FF4414DED for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lnb@freedom.cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (lnb@localhost) by freedom.cybertouch.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA57709; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:52:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: Steffen Hein Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <376DC966.69385214@spinner.de> Message-ID: City: Thorhill Province: Ontario Postal: L4J 6X4 Tel: 905-763-1900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Steffen Hein wrote: help with what? You need to tell us what the problem is. If on the other hand you wanted the help files from majordomo then send mail to majordomo@freebsd.org with help in the body of the mail. Regards, Lanny Baron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Mon Jun 28 22:53:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from freedom.cybertouch.org (freedom.cybertouch.org [216.183.2.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0919E14DED for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lnb@freedom.cybertouch.org) Received: from localhost (lnb@localhost) by freedom.cybertouch.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA57729; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:53:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron To: * Orizio Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to formating a floppy disk ? In-Reply-To: <03f5a1220041569ZIPIMAIL1@zipmail.com.br> Message-ID: City: Thorhill Province: Ontario Postal: L4J 6X4 Tel: 905-763-1900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 21 Jun 1999, * Orizio wrote: hi, good night ! good morning how formating a floppies disk from FreeBSD what kind? Microsoft or Unix ? Later Lanny and how read a EXT2FS in this great system ? thank you and i love FreeBSD... this is a great job ! _____________________________________________________________ http://www.zipmail.com.br O e-mail que vai aonde voc=EA est=E1. _____________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jun 29 0:25:56 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC1E14D5B; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:25:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from camoody@pacbell.net) Received: from chris1 (ppp-209-232-192-49.chic01.pacbell.net [209.232.192.49]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA07989; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003001bec200$9c9128e0$31c0e8d1@chris1> From: "Chris Moody" To: "Questions FreeBSD" , "Newbie FreeBSD" Subject: Dialing up to Pac Bell's ISP Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:25:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BEC1C5.EF9B4100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BEC1C5.EF9B4100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everyone, I was wondering if anyone else out there had Pacific Bell's Internet = Service? I was able to install my copy of FreeBSD over Pac Bell's ISP, but I = can't figure out how to set it up correctly now that I have FreeBSD = installed. I think the problem is that I don't know how to set the = Default Gateway, when I installed FreeBSD, I configured it to the = Sacramento DNS Server. I've gone through the ppp man page, and tried everything in their, but I = still don't connect. When I get to the Login: prompt (using term) after = typing in my login name, I always get %Authorization Failure, or = something like that. And I believe somehow this is because I don't have = my Gateway setup. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Chris ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BEC1C5.EF9B4100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello everyone,
 
I was wondering if anyone else out = there had=20 Pacific Bell's Internet Service?
 
I was able to install my copy of = FreeBSD over Pac=20 Bell's ISP, but I can't figure out how to set it up correctly now that I = have=20 FreeBSD installed. I think the problem is that I don't know how to set = the=20 Default Gateway, when I installed FreeBSD, I configured it to the = Sacramento DNS=20 Server.
 
I've gone through the ppp man page, and = tried=20 everything in their, but I still don't connect. When I get to the Login: = prompt=20 (using term) after typing in my login name, I always get %Authorization = Failure,=20 or something like that. And I believe somehow this is because I don't = have my=20 Gateway setup.
 
Any help would be greatly = appreciated,
 
Chris
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BEC1C5.EF9B4100-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jun 29 18: 9:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258FD15168 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id SAA20037; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:07:22 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:07:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes To: Lanny Baron Cc: * Orizio , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to formating a floppy disk ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > how formating a floppies disk from FreeBSD > what kind? Microsoft or Unix ? I believe you use the make format command. I believe its mkfmt, but I'm just as new so I don't remember. Also, when using it you add a switch to tell it what file system, and then a destination. Look at the man page for it. > and how read a EXT2FS in this great system ? Here you use the mount command. I believe it would look like mount -t ext2 /dev/(unit) (destination dir). then you use umount to unmount the partition. Read the man pages, they really help! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jun 29 19:24:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C172214E13 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:24:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-031.charm.net [209.143.116.31]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07893 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37797FE3.B2294C2B@charm.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:24:35 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If anyone is tasked to evaluate an OS for server applications you may want to check this out. I was not aware that Linux Kernel code was not reentrant. Well 'they' say it is fixed in 2.2, but it isn't. Now I have to find more info on the BSD kernel. Study? Where except the code? NT is better by 600% http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/nts/exec/compares/ntlinux.asp Why Linux failed. http://www.ntmag.com/Magazine/Article.cfm?ArticleID=5048 -dutch -- +------------------------------------------------------+ | If you want to make god laugh - tell him your plans. | | Kim Basinger | | Voice Line: 410.922.5805 | +------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Tue Jun 29 21: 6:42 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD12150FF for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:06:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Dwcpride@aol.com) Received: from Dwcpride@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id nNQJa09216 (4546) for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:06:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Dwcpride@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:06:16 EDT Subject: (no subject) To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org dwcpride@aol.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 3:51:13 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971AE154AF for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 03:51:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk) Received: from fs3.rncm.ac.uk ([193.63.96.102] helo=rncm.ac.uk) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 10zHxL-000NSQ-00; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:51:07 +0100 Received: from RNCM-FS3/SpoolDir by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jun 99 11:51:10 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by RNCM-FS3 (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jun 99 11:50:46 GMT Received: from brick (193.63.96.36) by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jun 99 11:50:37 GMT From: "Peter McGarvey" To: "Dutch Collins" Cc: Subject: RE: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:50:57 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01bec2e6$6f58a6a0$24603fc1@brick.it-dept.rncm.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <37797FE3.B2294C2B@charm.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I like the line on the MS Website that claims NT Server offers a "price performance advantage over Linux"... How's this? Anyway this is a FreeBSD list so I'd like to see the same figures for NT vs. FreeBSD. BTW, is the FreeBSD kernel reentrant? Actually, If you ask me it doesn't really matter. It's only really an issue with multiple processors. For the cost of Windows NT Server with a dual CPU machine you can have 2 FreeBSD machines (at least). Besides, FreeBSD doesn't need to waste 90% of it's resources running a useless GUI. TTFN, FNORD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dutch Collins > Sent: 30 June 1999 03:25 > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux > > > If anyone is tasked to evaluate an OS for server applications you may > want to check this out. I was not aware that Linux Kernel code was not > reentrant. Well 'they' say it is fixed in 2.2, but it isn't. Now I have > to find more info on the BSD kernel. Study? Where except the code? > > NT is better by 600% > http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/nts/exec/compares/ntlinux.asp > > Why Linux failed. > http://www.ntmag.com/Magazine/Article.cfm?ArticleID=5048 > > -dutch > > -- > +------------------------------------------------------+ > | If you want to make god laugh - tell him your plans. | > | Kim Basinger | > | Voice Line: 410.922.5805 | > +------------------------------------------------------+ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 4:48:14 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3255915370 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 04:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net ([209.143.115.138]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05157; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377A03E6.4EF73BF8@charm.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:47:50 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter McGarvey Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux References: <001e01bec2e6$6f58a6a0$24603fc1@brick.it-dept.rncm.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Peter McGarvey wrote: > > I like the line on the MS Website that claims NT Server offers a "price > performance advantage over Linux"... > > How's this? > > Anyway this is a FreeBSD list so I'd like to see the same figures for NT vs. > FreeBSD. > > BTW, is the FreeBSD kernel reentrant? > > Actually, If you ask me it doesn't really matter. It's only really an issue > with multiple processors. For the cost of Windows NT Server with a dual CPU > machine you can have 2 FreeBSD machines (at least). Besides, FreeBSD > doesn't need to waste 90% of it's resources running a useless GUI. > > TTFN, FNORD > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk > Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 > 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 > England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dutch Collins > > Sent: 30 June 1999 03:25 > > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux > > > > > > If anyone is tasked to evaluate an OS for server applications you may > > want to check this out. I was not aware that Linux Kernel code was not > > reentrant. Well 'they' say it is fixed in 2.2, but it isn't. Now I have > > to find more info on the BSD kernel. Study? Where except the code? > > > > NT is better by 600% > > http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/nts/exec/compares/ntlinux.asp > > > > Why Linux failed. > > http://www.ntmag.com/Magazine/Article.cfm?ArticleID=5048 > > > > -dutch 0730 EDT -arg Well this is what I was thinking about. Microsoft is worried that Unix, not Linux will get the commerce business. That price/perfm. stuff is top notch BS with a big Bull. The FreeBSD 3.2 .src is somewhere on my CD. As far as I will quess - yes, or should be reentrant. I went to sun micro site (www.sun.com) for a while and will have a copy of Solaris 7 soon (for my other 486 box). Odd - my copy of Limux RH 5.2 is still in the box. Something in the docs turned me to FreeBSD - Real Unix. To make a shot story long - got to read the .src kernel comments. Also, sun.com has some commerce news patting themselves on the back about being NT tested. Go figure. -dutch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 5: 7:53 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from curlew.cs.man.ac.uk (curlew.cs.man.ac.uk [130.88.13.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE1A154DC for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 05:07:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk) Received: from fs3.rncm.ac.uk ([193.63.96.102] helo=rncm.ac.uk) by curlew.cs.man.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 10zJ9W-0004qr-00; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:07:46 +0100 Received: from RNCM-FS3/SpoolDir by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jun 99 13:07:50 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by RNCM-FS3 (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jun 99 13:07:20 GMT Received: from brick (193.63.96.36) by rncm.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jun 99 13:07:20 GMT From: "Peter McGarvey" To: "Dutch Collins" Cc: Subject: RE: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:07:40 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01bec2f1$26ce1720$24603fc1@brick.it-dept.rncm.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <377A03E6.4EF73BF8@charm.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've just looked at the following: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.0R/notes.html and found the following: "The kernel is mostly non-reentrant as yet, but work is under way" So I would imagine FreeBSD's kernel is still non-reentrant. The only way to truly check is something is fully reentrant is to read the sources. Now, I've never met anyone who's read the source for NT. So, we only have Microsoft's word that NT is indeed fully reentrant. Of course I would never claim that a global player like Microsoft would lie about this. TTFN, FNORD -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dutch Collins > Sent: 30 June 1999 12:48 > To: Peter McGarvey > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux > > > Peter McGarvey wrote: > > > > I like the line on the MS Website that claims NT Server offers a "price > > performance advantage over Linux"... > > > > How's this? > > > > Anyway this is a FreeBSD list so I'd like to see the same > figures for NT vs. > > FreeBSD. > > > > BTW, is the FreeBSD kernel reentrant? > > > > Actually, If you ask me it doesn't really matter. It's only > really an issue > > with multiple processors. For the cost of Windows NT Server > with a dual CPU > > machine you can have 2 FreeBSD machines (at least). Besides, FreeBSD > > doesn't need to waste 90% of it's resources running a useless GUI. > > > > TTFN, FNORD > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk > > Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 > > 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 > > England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dutch Collins > > > Sent: 30 June 1999 03:25 > > > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > Subject: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux > > > > > > > > > If anyone is tasked to evaluate an OS for server applications you may > > > want to check this out. I was not aware that Linux Kernel code was not > > > reentrant. Well 'they' say it is fixed in 2.2, but it isn't. > Now I have > > > to find more info on the BSD kernel. Study? Where except the code? > > > > > > NT is better by 600% > > > http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/nts/exec/compares/ntlinux.asp > > > > > > Why Linux failed. > > > http://www.ntmag.com/Magazine/Article.cfm?ArticleID=5048 > > > > > > -dutch > > 0730 EDT -arg > > Well this is what I was thinking about. Microsoft is worried that Unix, > not Linux will get the commerce business. That price/perfm. stuff is > top notch BS with a big Bull. > > The FreeBSD 3.2 .src is somewhere on my CD. As far as I will quess - > yes, or should be reentrant. I went to sun micro site (www.sun.com) for > a while and will have a copy of Solaris 7 soon (for my other 486 box). > Odd - my copy of Limux RH 5.2 is still in the box. Something in the docs > turned me to FreeBSD - Real Unix. > > To make a shot story long - got to read the .src kernel comments. Also, > sun.com has some commerce news patting themselves on the back about > being NT tested. Go figure. > > -dutch > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 5:57:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5708214FF6 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 05:57:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net ([209.143.115.138]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11892 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377A1428.4145F218@charm.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:57:12 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A second thought about TP & Unix Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Keep in mind I have not read the BSD kernel, yet. This is half rant. One must keep in mind that most Transaction Processing (TP) is done by 'the big OSs'- VMS and IBM AS machines. Is FreeBSD or Inc. (BSDI) doing anything to break into this market? Here is food for thought. I heard that USPS (I was there - retired software engr. now) went to Linux. Well, that is a leap because most of the work is done by imbedded OS and/or a bunch of different OSs with PDP-11s and RSX-11 doing the work on a lot of machines. I don't want to get on a rant here (sorry to Dennis Miller) - but reentrant kernel problems used to kill the time it takes to process a bar-code. Time in milliseconds and in microseconds in the case of multi processors means everything. I just do not see either NT or Linux doing a very good job in TP. Well, Linux has the Open Source Code and someone will get to redesign the kernel. Microsoft is not going to give anyone but microsoft source code. Now,where is FreeBSD in this kind of political fight? If the kernel is fully reentrant and events are interrupt driven, not polled, then why is it (freeBSD) floating in limbo? Marketing. In the above example, Linux won and FreeBSD didn't for that reason. Ok, I am out of steam on this. Remember, a bad product will win over a good product if the marketing plan is better and faster. If I was to operate an e-commerce site I would not trust NT to work well or cheaply. So, I my have been vague with the above example but time is money. It always boils down to who can move the most bits the fastest and cheapest. If you want to move bits then chose the OS with care, not "I believe". =dutch Sorry can't tell about the way reentrant problems were fixed. They will sue me (kill?) -- +------------------------------------------------------+ | If you want to make god laugh - tell him your plans. | | Kim Basinger | | Voice Line: 410.922.5805 | +------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 6: 5:30 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52903154F8 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 06:05:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net ([209.143.115.138]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12927; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377A15FF.88A313FC@charm.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:05:03 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter McGarvey Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux References: <001f01bec2f1$26ce1720$24603fc1@brick.it-dept.rncm.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Response Starts here. Yep I been on a rant and need to study. Microsoft will say whatever they want. Do what they want. But, this reentrant kernel seems to be true. I just sent a long msg about some of this. In short, "he who moves the most bits the fastest and cheapest wins". That really is the bottom line. Heading back to FreeBSD.org now. -d Peter McGarvey wrote: > > I've just looked at the following: > > http://www.freebsd.org/releases/3.0R/notes.html > > and found the following: > > "The kernel is mostly non-reentrant as yet, but work is under way" > > So I would imagine FreeBSD's kernel is still non-reentrant. > > The only way to truly check is something is fully reentrant is to read the > sources. Now, I've never met anyone who's read the source for NT. So, we > only have Microsoft's word that NT is indeed fully reentrant. > > Of course I would never claim that a global player like Microsoft would lie > about this. > > TTFN, FNORD > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk > Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 > 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 > England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dutch Collins > > Sent: 30 June 1999 12:48 > > To: Peter McGarvey > > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux > > > > > > Peter McGarvey wrote: > > > > > > I like the line on the MS Website that claims NT Server offers a "price > > > performance advantage over Linux"... > > > > > > How's this? > > > > > > Anyway this is a FreeBSD list so I'd like to see the same > > figures for NT vs. > > > FreeBSD. > > > > > > BTW, is the FreeBSD kernel reentrant? > > > > > > Actually, If you ask me it doesn't really matter. It's only > > really an issue > > > with multiple processors. For the cost of Windows NT Server > > with a dual CPU > > > machine you can have 2 FreeBSD machines (at least). Besides, FreeBSD > > > doesn't need to waste 90% of it's resources running a useless GUI. > > > > > > TTFN, FNORD > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > Peter McGarvey, Networks Manager | email: Networks.Manager@rncm.ac.uk > > > Royal Northern College of Music | tel: +44 (0)161 907 5218 > > > 124 Oxford Road, Manchester, | fax: +44 (0)161 273 7611 > > > England M13 9RD | mobile: +44 (0)7887 990564 > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Dutch Collins > > > > Sent: 30 June 1999 03:25 > > > > To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Subject: Kernel Reentrancy - NT vs Linux > > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone is tasked to evaluate an OS for server applications you may > > > > want to check this out. I was not aware that Linux Kernel code was not > > > > reentrant. Well 'they' say it is fixed in 2.2, but it isn't. > > Now I have > > > > to find more info on the BSD kernel. Study? Where except the code? > > > > > > > > NT is better by 600% > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/nts/exec/compares/ntlinux.asp > > > > > > > > Why Linux failed. > > > > http://www.ntmag.com/Magazine/Article.cfm?ArticleID=5048 > > > > > > > > -dutch > > > > 0730 EDT -arg > > > > Well this is what I was thinking about. Microsoft is worried that Unix, > > not Linux will get the commerce business. That price/perfm. stuff is > > top notch BS with a big Bull. > > > > The FreeBSD 3.2 .src is somewhere on my CD. As far as I will quess - > > yes, or should be reentrant. I went to sun micro site (www.sun.com) for > > a while and will have a copy of Solaris 7 soon (for my other 486 box). > > Odd - my copy of Limux RH 5.2 is still in the box. Something in the docs > > turned me to FreeBSD - Real Unix. > > > > To make a shot story long - got to read the .src kernel comments. Also, > > sun.com has some commerce news patting themselves on the back about > > being NT tested. Go figure. > > > > -dutch > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > -- +------------------------------------------------------+ | If you want to make god laugh - tell him your plans. | | Kim Basinger | | Voice Line: 410.922.5805 | +------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 12:41:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E1E155E5 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:41:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tone@resounding.com) Received: from g5h9d (amlovell.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.40.12]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA26085 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <031901bec330$ee7bf460$0100000a@ne.mediaone.net> From: "tone" To: Subject: How to reconfigure the kernel? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:44:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org for 3.1-RELEASE.. I have to change to a different NIC card and I cannot for the life of me see how to get to the "pick the hardware being used and resolve any conflicts" userconfig program. I did it once, but forget how I did it. Another user indicated that I hit -c during bootup, but that is not indicated anywhere and I cannot make that work. Thanks in advance for any help. I just need to re-run that configuration tool in visual mode. tone To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 17:42:55 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from staff.cs.usyd.edu.au (staff.cs.usyd.edu.au [129.78.8.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C4B314E01 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:42:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mhenry@hons.cs.usyd.edu.au) Subject: Re: How to reconfigure the kernel? To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:42:28 +1000 (EST) From: "Michael Henry" In-Reply-To: <031901bec330$ee7bf460$0100000a@ne.mediaone.net> from "tone" at Jun 30, 99 03:44:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1068 Message-Id: <19990701004248.0C4B314E01@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > for 3.1-RELEASE.. > > I have to change to a different NIC card and I cannot for the life of me see > how to get to the "pick the hardware being used and resolve any conflicts" > userconfig program. > > I did it once, but forget how I did it. Another user indicated that I > hit -c during bootup, but that is not indicated anywhere and I cannot make > that work. When the loader is counting down from nine, hit the space bar, and then type "boot -c". Then, when the config prompt comes up, type "visual" to get the gui hardware configurator. It might be worthwhile to recompile your kernel with just the current ethernet card. (I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that a custom kernel performs any better, but it does boot more quickly. And it's smaller. And it just feels good to be able to say "This is MY kernel"). > Thanks in advance for any help. I just need to re-run that configuration > tool in visual mode. > > tone > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 18:16:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from freedom.cybertouch.org (freedom.cybertouch.org [216.183.2.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96701579A for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:16:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lnb@cybertouch.org) Received: from wired (wired.cybertouch.org [216.183.2.3]) by freedom.cybertouch.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA94928 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907010116.VAA94928@freedom.cybertouch.org> From: "Lanny Baron" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:17:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: reentrant kernel Reply-To: lnb@cybertouch.org In-reply-to: <377A1428.4145F218@charm.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, Just a quick question. What is a reentrant kernel? Thanks, Lanny To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 19: 1: 2 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99ABA15489; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:00:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulairi@jps.net) Received: from ulairi (208-237-196-75.irv.jps.net [208.237.196.75]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28219; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:00:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ulairi" To: "tone" Cc: "Newbies" , "Questions" Subject: RE: How to reconfigure the kernel? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:00:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01bec365$8531cfe0$4bc4edd0@ulairi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <031901bec330$ee7bf460$0100000a@ne.mediaone.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 When the system boots, the boot loader says "Press enter to boot now or press any key to interrupt" (or something to that effect). Hit space bar at that time (it has a 10-second timer that counts backwards - that's when you hit the space bar) and type in "boot -c" - that should bring you to a point where you choose a command-line config or a visual config (by typing in "visual" when it asks you to). Hope this helps. Also, I'm directing this reply to -questions, since it seems to belong there a bit more then it does in the newbies :) | | | for 3.1-RELEASE.. | | I have to change to a different NIC card and I cannot for the | life of me see | how to get to the "pick the hardware being used and resolve | any conflicts" | userconfig program. | | I did it once, but forget how I did it. Another user indicated that I | hit -c during bootup, but that is not indicated anywhere and | I cannot make | that work. | | Thanks in advance for any help. I just need to re-run that | configuration | tool in visual mode. | | tone | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBN3rLtlR8Yh25VFLEEQL8bQCfey7EimmciYQsKe2GfAfBxVfmeCUAoMKK idsbtdNVklOTchieUuHmXbQy =OBxp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 23:28:15 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bootes.ebtech.net (bootes.ebtech.net [142.250.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA6014E28 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@geeky1.ebtech.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bootes.ebtech.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with UUCP id BAA27179; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:37:42 -0400 Received: from localhost (paul@localhost) by geeky1.ebtech.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id BAA11694; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:31:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:31:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Anderson To: Dutch Collins Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A second thought about TP & Unix In-Reply-To: <377A1428.4145F218@charm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Dutch Collins wrote: > Remember, a bad product will win over a good > product if the marketing plan is better and faster. > IMHO, that could have been worded better. Linux is, IMHO, entirely the equal of FreeBSD. They are different, yet equal in capabilities. > If I was to operate an e-commerce site I would not trust NT to work well > or cheaply. > Ha! I wouldn't trust NT to level a desk:) --- Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group http://www.sar-net.com/slug http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." -- Yoda To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 23:55:49 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A66714C83 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:55:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulairi@jps.net) Received: from ulairi (208-237-196-41.irv.jps.net [208.237.196.41]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08190 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:55:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ulairi" To: "Newbies" Subject: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000801bec38e$b26b4760$29c4edd0@ulairi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 While this is a FreeBSD list, let's keep the NT-bashing to a minimum please Granted, it's not the most stable thing in the world. So what? It works for the general user. Personally, I'm a "Whatever-does-the-job" OS biggot. I have to support it all. From VAX to HP-UX to WinNT. NT has its place, and so does Linux and FreeBSD and all other things. Keep in mind, things like VAX and HP-UX have their roots in the original incarnation of UNIX, making them the logical result of UNIX' 28 years of trial and error. NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, perhaps it'll grow up a tad. General Purpose Computer Geek California State University, Northridge College of Engineering and Computer Science 18111 Nordhoff St, Post Stop 8295 Northridge, CA 91330 ulairi@jps.net ulairi@ecs.csun.edu ntadmin@ecs.csun.edu secadmin@ecs.csun.edu -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBN3sQJVR8Yh25VFLEEQKoLgCg6NV5UwO0VAnGDDv+Rtiq8J+CQxEAoO12 VG229JKPpJWk6v6Ha6jpygyR =8bkt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Wed Jun 30 23:57:45 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D8C14C83 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulairi@jps.net) Received: from ulairi (208-237-196-41.irv.jps.net [208.237.196.41]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08209; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:55:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ulairi" To: Cc: "Newbies" Subject: RE: reentrant kernel Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:55:29 -0700 Message-ID: <000901bec38e$b4d84fc0$29c4edd0@ulairi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199907010116.VAA94928@freedom.cybertouch.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 A re-entrant kernel is a kernel whose functions are designed to run on multiple CPUs at once. Simplified, here's the thing: when kernel's threads make system calls (request resources, whatever), they will block other threads from getting the same resources until the first thread has finished. With multiple CPUs, that's really SILLY since you should be able to say "thread A doing memory allocation goes onto CPU1, thread B doing memory allocation goes onto CPU2". At this time, of Linux/FreeBSD/WindowsNT, only NT's kernel is actually re-entrant. Linux's and FreeBSD's are both at various stages of development. Windows NT 4.0's Service Pack 4 adds a very important fix - - it makes the network card driver reentrant so that an SMP (Symmetrical Multiple Processors)-based system can have more then one CPU talk to the network driver and process network information at the same time. A thread is a mini-process - a part of a kernel designed to do something. They exist so that they can be deligated tasks and the main thing keeps on chugging along | | Hello, | Just a quick question. What is a reentrant kernel? | | Thanks, | | Lanny -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBN3sPIFR8Yh25VFLEEQKK0wCgivyCV9YCvBd887WWNc7/dF3NfloAn3fm kpotyFaT9baAK5FeL//NeCVW =ErFW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 0:27:50 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from bootes.ebtech.net (bootes.ebtech.net [142.250.0.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904E3155DD for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:27:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@geeky1.ebtech.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by bootes.ebtech.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with UUCP id CAA27591; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 02:45:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (paul@localhost) by geeky1.ebtech.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id CAA11959; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 02:47:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 02:47:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Anderson To: Ulairi Cc: Newbies Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <000801bec38e$b26b4760$29c4edd0@ulairi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft won't admit to itself that UNIX is, in fact, the pinnacle of operating system interface design. It is powerful, easily learned(contrary to popular opinion), stable, and effective. UNIX has been going through 28 years of massaging by knowledgeable programmers and sys admins - guess who specifies the OS features at MS? The marketroids, that's who. Whereas UNIX's(including FreeBSD and Linux) development has been driven by those that use it, NT is driven by suits that couldn't tell the difference between a hard drive and a baseball bat.(Even if they where simultaneously pummelled with both, har har) As I said in comp.os.linux.misc recently, Win2000 will most likely wind up like a fat, slow epileptic elephant shot full of crack cocaine and trying to waltz during an earthquake. One can only get a program so messed up before a complete rewrite is necessary, and for windows that rewrite has been about a decade overdue. TTYL! --- Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group http://www.sar-net.com/slug http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul "Ask not for whom the tolls." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 4:34:11 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322F914DBE for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 04:34:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15876; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:31:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990701213110.F14477@caamora.com.au> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:31:10 +1000 From: jonathan michaels To: Ulairi , lnb@cybertouch.org Cc: Newbies Subject: Re: reentrant kernel Mail-Followup-To: Ulairi , lnb@cybertouch.org, Newbies References: <199907010116.VAA94928@freedom.cybertouch.org> <000901bec38e$b4d84fc0$29c4edd0@ulairi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <000901bec38e$b4d84fc0$29c4edd0@ulairi>; from Ulairi on Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 11:55:29PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 11:55:29PM -0700, Ulairi wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > A re-entrant kernel is a kernel whose functions are designed to run on > multiple CPUs at once. because this is wrong ... all that you say that is based upon this is in error. back in 1978-82 we were writing re-entrant code fro system tools and real world applications in os9, not just for teh unix like microware os9 kernel .. on single unit motorola mc6800 processor systems. i don't remember why the intel chips have such real troubel with kernel reentracy, could be the sloppy chip design or teh worse assembler language .. when compared to teh clean and relatively efficient assmebler for motorola silicon. i'll digup some notes or colleauges and get back to you > Simplified, here's the thing: when kernel's > threads make system calls (request resources, whatever), they will > block other threads from getting the same resources until the first > thread has finished. ipc - interprocess communications or messaging has little if anyting to do with code fragment re-entrancy. its more like the old argument concerning monolithic kernel design or micro kernel, this is where all teh subsystems of a kernel are built as dicrete entities that can be mixed and packed to build the required ... well something like that, i don't have my microware documentation any more and its been so long ago. regards jonathan -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 7:37:40 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from fellspt.charm.net (fellspt.charm.net [199.0.70.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5138914DD0 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 07:37:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dutch@charm.net) Received: from charm.net (coretel-053.charm.net [209.143.116.53]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08856 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377B7D20.402BCAB1@charm.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:37:20 -0400 From: Dutch Collins X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Reentry-Recursion-dusty books version Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dusty book is: An Introduction to Operating Systems, revised 1st ED. Harvy M. Deitel, ISBN: 0-201-14501-4 Including Case Studies in: UNIX, VAX, CP/M, MVS, VM The short definition: "Code that cannot be changed while in use os said to be *reentrant*. Code that may be changed but is reinitialized each time it is used is said to *serially reusable*. Reentrant code may be shared by several processes simultaneously whereas serially reusable code may be used by one process at a time." p.131 Now there are a mess of data structures associated with using the above. And the OS tries to handle interrupts, both maskable and unmaskable. That is for later. Also, one must allow for the serial process and deadlock. To keep this short and to the point I will say that part of the problem with x86 hardware is a bad design in the way it/they handle interrupts, both hardware and software. Intel laid this egg back in the CP/M days and has tinkered around it ever since. -dutch/more coffee/collins -- +------------------------------------------------------+ | If you want to make god laugh - tell him your plans. | | Kim Basinger | | Voice Line: 410.922.5805 | +------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 8:59:57 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us (intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us [209.129.95.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD9D14C27 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us) Received: from luciamar.k12.ca.us (intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us [209.129.95.252]) by intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22890; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <377B910D.AAEA22D1@luciamar.k12.ca.us> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:02:21 -0700 From: David Knapp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Anderson Cc: Ulairi , Newbies Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Paul Anderson wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > > > NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > > perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > > > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft won't admit > to itself that UNIX is, in fact, the pinnacle of operating system > interface design. It is powerful, easily learned(contrary to popular > opinion), stable, and effective. I would like to try out BEOS before I will agree with that statement. :^) > > --- > Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac > paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group > http://www.sar-net.com/slug > http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul > "Ask not for whom the tolls." > -- David Knapp PC Network Specialist LMUSD 805 473-4390 ext 426 FreeBSD Newbie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 9: 5:48 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from gate.ldn.wdr.com (gate.ldn.wdr.com [193.82.179.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A5914E58 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Clem.Dye@wdr.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by gate.ldn.wdr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21518; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:05:26 +0100 (BST) From: Clem.Dye@wdr.com Received: from inside(192.168.0.1) by gate via smap (V2.0) id xma021398; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:05:01 +0100 Received: from ln4p1129.ldn.swissbank.com (ln4p1129.ldn.swissbank.com [172.16.234.32]) by ln4p1013pos.ldn.swissbank.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07660; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:05:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by ln4p1129.ldn.swissbank.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6/WDR alpha evision: 1.7 $) with SMTP id RAA28110; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:04:59 +0100 (BST) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:04:51 +0100 Message-Id: Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us, paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, ulairi@jps.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="BDY.TXT" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BDY.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Processed-By: BrianWare hpomsmf V2.3.40, 19 May 1999 X-WDR-Disclaimer: Version $Revision: 1.13 $ Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tried BeOS 4.5, dead impressed. Boots in about 10 seconds, easy to drive, but with Unix underneath, where it matters. Fast - it whizzed along on a Pentium/200 (not MMX) with 32MB ram. Hardware support is still a little light (read: no laptop stuff), but I can easily see my home network using a FreeBSD backend with BeOS clients. I shall be grabbing a pukka copy of BeOS 4.5 the moment that my supplier gets a stock. Clem -----Original Message----- From: dknapp Sent: 01 July 1999 17:02 To: paul Cc: dknapp; ulairi; freebsd-newbies Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD Paul Anderson wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > > > NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > > perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > > > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft won't admit > to itself that UNIX is, in fact, the pinnacle of operating system > interface design. It is powerful, easily learned(contrary to popular > opinion), stable, and effective. I would like to try out BEOS before I will agree with that statement. :^) > > --- > Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac > paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group > http://www.sar-net.com/slug > http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul > "Ask not for whom the tolls." > -- David Knapp PC Network Specialist LMUSD 805 473-4390 ext 426 FreeBSD Newbie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 9:11: 7 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from hostigos.otherwhen.com (mavery-gw.pernet.net [205.229.2.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBACB14E58 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:10:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mavery@mail.otherwhen.com) Received: from mail.otherwhen.com (mail.2.229.205.in-addr.arpa [205.229.2.19] (may be forged)) by hostigos.otherwhen.com (8.8.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02469 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:11:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199907011611.LAA02469@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Received: from PORKY/SpoolDir by mail.otherwhen.com (Mercury 1.45); 1 Jul 99 11:10:57 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by PORKY (Mercury 1.45); 1 Jul 99 11:10:28 -0600 From: "Mike Avery" To: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:10:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: reentrant kernel Reply-To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com In-reply-to: <199907010116.VAA94928@freedom.cybertouch.org> References: <377A1428.4145F218@charm.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 30 Jun 99, at 21:17, Lanny Baron wrote: > Just a quick question. What is a reentrant kernel? Not sure that's a quick question.... Re-entrancy refers to the ability of code to be invoked as often as needed by any caller. When you have a single-tasking, single-user OS (like DOS, for instance), re-entrancy isn't an issue. You have one task running, and re-entry of a module won't happen (with the possible exception of recursion...) When you have a multi-tasking and/or multi-user OS (like Unix, Linux, FreeBSD, UniFLEX, OS/9, VMS, Multics, WinNT, and just about any mini or main-frame OS), you have the possibility that several tasks, or users, could access the same code at the same time. Maybe the "open file" module. So... you have to do something to prevent my attempt to open a file from interfering with your attempt to open a file. You can put code in the scheduler, and perhaps in the modules, to insure that only one task will attempt to open files at any given time. This is often called blocking. Perhaps you could have a queue in front of the file open routine, so a task requests a file open by queueing the request, and then waiting for results or a time-out. This works, and works well. But, it still delays things. Why should you have to wait for me to finish opening a file when your file isn't even on the same drive? Handling that sort of scenario adds to the code. And, in any case, you have a situation where everyone who has to perform a function, like opening a file, has to wait until other requests have been serviced. Not because of hardware limitations, but because of software limitations. The keys here are usually how temporary variables and work spaces are handled. You can't use the same memory location to handle more than one set of data at the same time. The answer then is to dynamically allocate the needed work space, to insure that each task that wants to open a file can not interfere with any other task that's doing the same thing. Back in my assembly language programming days on a Singer System 10, we'd use space in the task's dedicated memory partition (the hardware partitioned the memory, each user got up to 10k {that's right, k} of core {real core... magnetic doughnuts in a wire matrix}). On the Motorola 6809, we'd handle the situation by letting each task have it's own stack, and refering to the task's stack for storage. Either way, we had storage that other tasks couldn't wipe out. (Well... the well behaved tasks didn't wipe each other out. At that time memory protection was software based and poorly written code could crash the system... since then hardware protection has become available... it's faster and more stable, and requires less software to support it.) When the kernel is re-entrant, that means that all system tasks should be re-entrant, so there should be no blocking for purely software reasons. There will probably still be some situations where there will be blocking, however. In the file open example, for instance. The open request would check the cache, and if the file is cached, the open may not even hit the disk. However, if the file is not cached, the request will hit the disk... and a disk is physically constrained to only be able to do one thing at a time. So, a blocking mechanism must exist at this point. However, in a well designed OS, running on a well-tuned server, the impact of the actual disk hardware should be (relatively) minimal. Hope that helps, Mike ====================================================================== Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com (409)-842-2942 (work) ICQ: 16241692 * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: DEC has it now! Unfortunately, it's on back order. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 13:37:36 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mail-srv.MR.COM.AR (mail-srv.mr.com.ar [200.41.14.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E1114E2A for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jote@bigfoot.com) Received: from dr.defense.edu ([200.41.15.23]) by mail-srv.MR.COM.AR (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-59784U17500L14800S0V35) with ESMTP id AR for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:36:48 -0300 Content-Length: 894 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 17:32:53 -0300 (ART) From: Jose Albores To: Newbies Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sorry but I just came into this list yesterday. As I see this is a technical + opinion mailing list (and I came late into this discussion): Can anyone issue some differences between Linux (I am actually RedHat 5.2 user and tried Debian previously) and FreeBSD? I know there are some variations among Sys-V vs. BSD Un?x's, but I am mostly interested to know differences referring to stability and "upgradability" of one vs. others. If it's impossible through the list, please feel free to do this in private. TIA El 01-Jul-99 Paul Anderson dijo: > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > >> NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, >> perhaps it'll grow up a tad. >> > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft won't admit > [...] --- Jose Albores Tu "fortune": There are no manifestos like cannon and musketry. -- The Duke of Wellington To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 14:29:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us (intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us [209.129.95.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5E2150D5 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:29:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us) Received: from luciamar.k12.ca.us (intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us [209.129.95.252]) by intergate.luciamar.k12.ca.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24998; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <377BDE2E.CDB56903@luciamar.k12.ca.us> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 14:31:26 -0700 From: David Knapp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jose Albores Cc: Newbies Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=905614+0+/usr/local/www/db/text/1997/freebsd-questions/19971005.freebsd-questions here's an archived message I found... dbk Jose Albores wrote: > > Sorry but I just came into this list yesterday. > As I see this is a technical + opinion mailing list (and I came late into this > discussion): > Can anyone issue some differences between Linux (I am actually RedHat 5.2 user > and tried Debian previously) and FreeBSD? I know there are some variations > among Sys-V vs. BSD Un?x's, but I am mostly interested to know differences > referring to stability and "upgradability" of one vs. others. > If it's impossible through the list, please feel free to do this in private. > TIA > > El 01-Jul-99 Paul Anderson dijo: > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > > > >> NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > >> perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > >> > > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft won't admit > > [...] > > --- > Jose Albores > > Tu "fortune": > > There are no manifestos like cannon and musketry. > -- The Duke of Wellington > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message -- David Knapp PC Network Specialist LMUSD 805 473-4390 ext 426 FreeBSD Newbie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 14:35:51 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from sss80205.schwab.com (sss00205.schwab.com [162.93.15.188]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB546156B0 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Andreas.Pleschutznig@Schwab.COM) Received: by othbh/sss80205.schwab.com v1.000dar for qnum RAA02192 Received-Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s0001asf.schwab.com(162.93.32.201) by sss80205.schwab.com via smap (V4.2) id xma002177; Thu, 1 Jul 99 17:30:43 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by ihop sf id RAA11787; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: ( Schwab Email ) by copymail sf with ESMTP id RAA11778; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by n2101pmx.cdc.schwab.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:30:55 -0400 Message-ID: <11585F032846CF11867900805FE2A57706D617A4@n1002smx.nt.schwab.com> From: "Pleschutznig, Andreas" To: "'Clem.Dye@wdr.com'" , dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us, paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, ulairi@jps.net Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:30:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Forgive my not knowing: Beos is as free as freebsd? where can I download a copy from? -- Andreas Pleschutznig Sr. Unix System Admin E-mail: Andreas.Pleschutznig@Schwab.com Phone: (415) 636 0493 Cell: (415) 850 7996 Brick: 260 Pager: http://www.nextel.com/paging/indivpage.html Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. > -----Original Message----- > From: Clem.Dye@wdr.com [mailto:Clem.Dye@wdr.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:05 AM > To: dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us; paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; ulairi@jps.net > Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > > Tried BeOS 4.5, dead impressed. Boots in about 10 seconds, easy to > drive, but with Unix underneath, where it matters. Fast - it whizzed > along on a Pentium/200 (not MMX) with 32MB ram. Hardware support is > still a little light (read: no laptop stuff), but I can easily see my > home network using a FreeBSD backend with BeOS clients. I shall be > grabbing a pukka copy of BeOS 4.5 the moment that my supplier gets a > stock. > > > > Clem > > -----Original Message----- > From: dknapp > Sent: 01 July 1999 17:02 > To: paul > Cc: dknapp; ulairi; freebsd-newbies > Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > Paul Anderson wrote: > > > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > > > > > NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > > > perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > > > > > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft > won't admit > > to itself that UNIX is, in fact, the pinnacle of operating system > > interface design. It is powerful, easily learned(contrary to > popular > > opinion), stable, and effective. > > I would like to try out BEOS before I will agree with that statement. > :^) > > > > > --- > > Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac > > paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > > Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group > > http://www.sar-net.com/slug > > http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul > > "Ask not for whom the tolls." > > > -- > David Knapp > PC Network Specialist > LMUSD > 805 473-4390 ext 426 > FreeBSD Newbie > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If > verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or > related financial instruments. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 15:25:34 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com (calliope1.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7259814A09 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:25:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from edward.w.moreau@intel.com) Received: from fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com (fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.26]) by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.6 1998/11/24 22:10:56 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id PAA20426; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3C54K2ZM>; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:24:16 -0700 Message-ID: <0428AD6295E1D211AC4400A0C969E8A234EF69@orsmsx43.jf.intel.com> From: "Moreau, Edward W" To: "'Pleschutznig, Andreas'" , "'Clem.Dye@wdr.com'" , dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us, paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, ulairi@jps.net Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:24:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org nice try ... but my last look was that BeOS was commercial! -----Original Message----- From: Pleschutznig, Andreas [mailto:Andreas.Pleschutznig@Schwab.COM] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 2:31 PM To: 'Clem.Dye@wdr.com'; dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us; paul@geeky1.ebtech.net Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; ulairi@jps.net Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD Forgive my not knowing: Beos is as free as freebsd? where can I download a copy from? -- Andreas Pleschutznig Sr. Unix System Admin E-mail: Andreas.Pleschutznig@Schwab.com Phone: (415) 636 0493 Cell: (415) 850 7996 Brick: 260 Pager: http://www.nextel.com/paging/indivpage.html Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. > -----Original Message----- > From: Clem.Dye@wdr.com [mailto:Clem.Dye@wdr.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:05 AM > To: dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us; paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; ulairi@jps.net > Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > > Tried BeOS 4.5, dead impressed. Boots in about 10 seconds, easy to > drive, but with Unix underneath, where it matters. Fast - it whizzed > along on a Pentium/200 (not MMX) with 32MB ram. Hardware support is > still a little light (read: no laptop stuff), but I can easily see my > home network using a FreeBSD backend with BeOS clients. I shall be > grabbing a pukka copy of BeOS 4.5 the moment that my supplier gets a > stock. > > > > Clem > > -----Original Message----- > From: dknapp > Sent: 01 July 1999 17:02 > To: paul > Cc: dknapp; ulairi; freebsd-newbies > Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > Paul Anderson wrote: > > > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > > > > > NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > > > perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > > > > > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft > won't admit > > to itself that UNIX is, in fact, the pinnacle of operating system > > interface design. It is powerful, easily learned(contrary to > popular > > opinion), stable, and effective. > > I would like to try out BEOS before I will agree with that statement. > :^) > > > > > --- > > Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac > > paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > > Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group > > http://www.sar-net.com/slug > > http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul > > "Ask not for whom the tolls." > > > -- > David Knapp > PC Network Specialist > LMUSD > 805 473-4390 ext 426 > FreeBSD Newbie > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If > verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or > related financial instruments. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 15:48:54 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BDEE14F6B for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:47:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from npratt@mail.com) Received: from mail.com (ppp198-123.ecom.net [207.138.198.123]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA28938; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377BF03A.50C3B981@mail.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 15:48:26 -0700 From: Noah Pratt Organization: AlphaBit Computer Systems & Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Moreau, Edward W" Cc: "'Pleschutznig, Andreas'" , "'Clem.Dye@wdr.com'" , dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us, paul@geeky1.ebtech.net, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, ulairi@jps.net Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD References: <0428AD6295E1D211AC4400A0C969E8A234EF69@orsmsx43.jf.intel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org For more information about BeOS: http://www.be.com/ BeOS is commercial. Retails for $100, special introductory pricing of $70. -Noah Moreau, Edward W wrote: > > nice try ... but my last look was that BeOS was commercial! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pleschutznig, Andreas [mailto:Andreas.Pleschutznig@Schwab.COM] > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 2:31 PM > To: 'Clem.Dye@wdr.com'; dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us; > paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; ulairi@jps.net > Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > Forgive my not knowing: Beos is as free as freebsd? where can I download a > copy from? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 18:17:27 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from b.mx.crl.com (bmx.crl.com [165.113.1.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A82615170 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:17:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from anarchy@crl.com) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by b.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id SAA23418 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:17:24 -0700 (PDT) env-from (anarchy@crl.com) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:17:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Manes Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <0428AD6295E1D211AC4400A0C969E8A234EF69@orsmsx43.jf.intel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Moreau, Edward W wrote: > nice try ... but my last look was that BeOS was commercial! > However, BeOS is free to computer system manufacturers (ie, Dell, Gateway, home-brew stores, etc). > -----Original Message----- > From: Pleschutznig, Andreas [mailto:Andreas.Pleschutznig@Schwab.COM] > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 2:31 PM > To: 'Clem.Dye@wdr.com'; dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us; > paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; ulairi@jps.net > Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > > Forgive my not knowing: Beos is as free as freebsd? where can I download a > copy from? > > -- > Andreas Pleschutznig > Sr. Unix System Admin > E-mail: Andreas.Pleschutznig@Schwab.com > Phone: (415) 636 0493 Cell: (415) 850 7996 Brick: 260 > Pager: http://www.nextel.com/paging/indivpage.html > > Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the Charles > Schwab & Co., Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival > and review by someone other than the recipient. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Clem.Dye@wdr.com [mailto:Clem.Dye@wdr.com] > > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:05 AM > > To: dknapp@luciamar.k12.ca.us; paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > > Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG; ulairi@jps.net > > Subject: RE: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > > > > > Tried BeOS 4.5, dead impressed. Boots in about 10 seconds, easy to > > drive, but with Unix underneath, where it matters. Fast - it whizzed > > along on a Pentium/200 (not MMX) with 32MB ram. Hardware support is > > still a little light (read: no laptop stuff), but I can easily see my > > home network using a FreeBSD backend with BeOS clients. I shall be > > grabbing a pukka copy of BeOS 4.5 the moment that my supplier gets a > > stock. > > > > > > > > Clem > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dknapp > > Sent: 01 July 1999 17:02 > > To: paul > > Cc: dknapp; ulairi; freebsd-newbies > > Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD > > > > Paul Anderson wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > > > > > > > NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > > > > perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > > > > > > > And it's already a huge kludge. The problem is that Microsoft > > won't admit > > > to itself that UNIX is, in fact, the pinnacle of operating system > > > interface design. It is powerful, easily learned(contrary to > > popular > > > opinion), stable, and effective. > > > > I would like to try out BEOS before I will agree with that statement. > > :^) > > > > > > > > --- > > > Paul Anderson - Self-employed Megalomaniac > > > paul@geeky1.ebtech.net > > > Member of the Sarnia Linux User's Group > > > http://www.sar-net.com/slug > > > http://zephyr.sellad.on.ca/~paul > > > "Ask not for whom the tolls." > > > > > -- > > David Knapp > > PC Network Specialist > > LMUSD > > 805 473-4390 ext 426 > > FreeBSD Newbie > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this > > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. > > > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free > > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore > > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents > > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If > > verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This > > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be > > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or > > related financial instruments. > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jul 1 22: 8: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from indy.apu.fi (indy.apu.fi [193.66.16.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4AA014BE5 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:07:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jukka.Leino@a-lehdet.fi) Received: from [193.66.20.65] (kuva1.pc.apu.fi [193.66.20.65]) by indy.apu.fi (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA124082 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:07:52 +0300 (EET) X-Sender: jl@pop.apu.fi Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:07:52 +0200 To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org From: Jukka Leino Subject: ppp and dns Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi I have FreeBSD 3.1 and I use ppp to connect internet. What is right place to add my ISP domain nameserver address. If I add it to /etc/resolv.conf my netscape search it very long time at startup when I'm not connected. I tryed to put "enable dns" in /etc/ppp/ppp.conf but it rewrites the hole /etc/resolv.conf and don't change it back when I disconnect. So is there a way to add that ppp dns address so it's only there when I'm connected. As You can see I'm total newbie so any advice would be wellcome. Jukka To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 2 5:37: 6 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from nile.intac.com (nile.intac.com [198.6.114.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E275814E9A for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 05:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gkaplan@castle.net) Received: from castle.net (parsip-usr-85.intac.com [199.173.8.156]) by nile.intac.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ktb) with ESMTP id IAA29715; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377CB229.6C1ECA8D@castle.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 08:35:53 -0400 From: gkaplan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mavery@mail.otherwhen.com Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: reentrant kernel References: <377A1428.4145F218@charm.net> <199907011611.LAA02469@hostigos.otherwhen.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My opinion: The comments by Mike Avery seem to the point and well written. Reentrant code is a necessary condition for smp, it is not sufficient. A second necessary condition is that there must be the ability for one cpu to "lock out" any other cpu in a computer system from crucial data elements - such as a queue header pointer to a work schedule. "Lock out" would most conveniently be done in hardware, for example a cpu instruction that would test and modify a memory location is a single memory cycle. Mike Avery wrote: > On 30 Jun 99, at 21:17, Lanny Baron wrote: > > > Just a quick question. What is a reentrant kernel? > > Not sure that's a quick question.... > > > > Re-entrancy refers to the ability of code to be invoked as often as > needed by any caller. > > When you have a single-tasking, single-user OS (like DOS, for > instance), re-entrancy isn't an issue. You have one task running, and > re-entry of a module won't happen (with the possible exception of > recursion...) > > When you have a multi-tasking and/or multi-user OS (like Unix, Linux, > FreeBSD, UniFLEX, OS/9, VMS, Multics, WinNT, and just about any > mini or main-frame OS), you have the possibility that several tasks, > or users, could access the same code at the same time. Maybe the > "open file" module. > > So... you have to do something to prevent my attempt to open a file > from interfering with your attempt to open a file. You can put code > in the scheduler, and perhaps in the modules, to insure that only one > task will attempt to open files at any given time. This is often called > blocking. Perhaps you could have a queue in front of the file open > routine, so a task requests a file open by queueing the request, and > then waiting for results or a time-out. This works, and works well. > But, it still delays things. Why should you have to wait for me to > finish opening a file when your file isn't even on the same drive? > Handling that sort of scenario adds to the code. And, in any case, > you have a situation where everyone who has to perform a function, > like opening a file, has to wait until other requests have been > serviced. Not because of hardware limitations, but because of > software limitations. > > The keys here are usually how temporary variables and work spaces > are handled. You can't use the same memory location to handle > more than one set of data at the same time. > > The answer then is to dynamically allocate the needed work space, > to insure that each task that wants to open a file can not interfere > with any other task that's doing the same thing. Back in my assembly > language programming days on a Singer System 10, we'd use space in > the task's dedicated memory partition (the hardware partitioned the > memory, each user got up to 10k {that's right, k} of core {real core... > magnetic doughnuts in a wire matrix}). On the Motorola 6809, we'd > handle the situation by letting each task have it's own stack, and > refering to the task's stack for storage. Either way, we had > storage that other tasks couldn't wipe out. (Well... the well behaved > tasks didn't wipe each other out. At that time memory protection > was software based and poorly written code could crash the > system... since then hardware protection has become available... it's > faster and more stable, and requires less software to support it.) > > When the kernel is re-entrant, that means that all system tasks > should be re-entrant, so there should be no blocking for purely > software reasons. There will probably still be some situations where > there will be blocking, however. In the file open example, for > instance. The open request would check the cache, and if the file is > cached, the open may not even hit the disk. However, if the file is > not cached, the request will hit the disk... and a disk is physically > constrained to only be able to do one thing at a time. So, a blocking > mechanism must exist at this point. However, in a well designed OS, > running on a well-tuned server, the impact of the actual disk > hardware should be (relatively) minimal. > > Hope that helps, > Mike > > ====================================================================== > Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com > (409)-842-2942 (work) > ICQ: 16241692 > > * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way * > > A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: > DEC has it now! Unfortunately, it's on back order. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 2 18: 7:21 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435D7151BA; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) id VAA24907; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:08:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cjc) From: "Crist J. Clark" Message-Id: <199907030108.VAA24907@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from Paul Anderson at "Jul 1, 99 02:47:58 am" To: paul@geeky1.ebtech.net (Paul Anderson) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Cc: ulairi@jps.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: cjclark@home.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [This has completely diverged to -chat. Redirected there.] Paul Anderson wrote, > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Ulairi wrote: > > > NT is about 7 years old. Give it time, > > perhaps it'll grow up a tad. > > > And it's already a huge kludge. NT suffers from two _major[0]_ faults: 1) It is meant to be the end-all, be-all for every customer. i.e. a single distribution of the OS is meant to serve every possible contigency for the user. This is the conceptual design which leads to rampant featurism[1]. 2) Marriage to a GUI. Once anyone has used a CLI for a while realizes how frightfully inefficient the GUI is for the experienced user. By the time any administrator has learned the ins-and-outs of NT, they have had more than enough time to graduate from the awkwardness of GUI to the CLI. That said, I still have trouble with this remark, > The problem is that Microsoft won't admit to itself that UNIX is, in > fact, the pinnacle of operating system interface design. [snip some mostly valid statements about UNIX vs. NT.] To me, saying UNIX is "The Operating System" is almost hypocritical. As my reason (1) claims, the primary flaw of NT is that it wants to be the OS for everyone all of the time[2]. The power of UNIX is flexibility, but surely, it is not the OS for every situation. Also, saying UNIX is the 'pinnacle' seems to say there is nothing better in the future. This I find hard to believe. Whether the next step(s) are evolutionary or revolutionary diversions from UNIX, I think there _is_ a next step (who knows, maybe a Microsoft broken up by the Feds finds the Next Best Thing). I feel about UNIX how I feel about democratic government, "UNIX is the absolute worst operating system there is. Except for all of the others." There must be something better down the road. Even if there is no factual basis for that belief, I must believe it to keep going in the computing field. [0] NT suffers from a broad range of problems, but most can be tracked down to these two major ideological flaws. [1] Which in turn is what leads to the contradiction that the supposedly easy to admin system becomes impossibly complex. A personal example is doing something simple like getting a "shared" directory's permissions right. There are at _least_ 3 overlapping permission systems that all must agree for things to work. The GUI does _not_ make it easier. [2] If anything in here is going to catch flames... Well, I'll just say it: The current primary UNIX offerings, FreeBSD, the other *BSDs, and the Linuxes are still not the best option for the luser who just wants to use Outlook, M$ Word, PowerPoint, etc. The Win9x OS's, or say an iMac, are still a good choice (today) for someone who wants to use a computer without really caring to understand how it works. The ol' analogy being someone who wants a nice cute car that will get them around town without having to build it or maintain it themselves. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Fri Jul 2 19:30:20 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE0F14CAF for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:30:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA15594 for freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:30:14 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:30:14 +1000 (EST) From: Sue Blake Message-Id: <199907030230.MAA15594@phoenix.welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD Newbies First Aid Kit Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD-Newbies First Aid Kit (Last updated 30 August 1998) (This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD-Newbies mailing list. It is also available at http://www.welearn.com.au/freebsd/newbies/) FreeBSD-Questions@FreeBSD.ORG is the place to send all questions about installing, configuring, running and using FreeBSD. All help requests are handled by FreeBSD-Questions, including newbies questions. FreeBSD-Newbies is different. We don't ask for help or answer how-to questions. It is a discussion forum for newbies. FreeBSD-Newbies provides a place for new FreeBSD users to meet and covers any of the activities of newbies that are not already dealt with elsewhere. Examples include helping each other to learn more on our own, finding and using resources, problem solving techniques, how to seek help elsewhere, how to use mailing lists and which lists to use, general chat, making mistakes, boasting, sharing ideas, stories, moral (but not technical) support, and taking an active part in the FreeBSD community. We take our problems and support questions to freebsd-questions, and use freebsd-newbies to meet others who are doing the same things that we do as newbies. One of the things we do together is learn more effective ways to find help when we need it. Here are some suggestions: When something doesn't work the way you expect 1. First look at the errata for your release of FreeBSD at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/releases/ for the latest information and security advisories. 2. Search the Handbook, FAQ, and mail archives at http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/search.html 3. If you still have a question or problem, collect the output of `uname -a' and of any relevant program(s) and email your question to FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. Mailing lists When you have a problem that you can't solve by yourself, there's only one support mailing list and that's FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG. FreeBSD-questions helps with installation and basic setup as well as more general and advanced questions. You don't have to actually join freebsd-questions before asking a question there. Replies to your question will normally be sent to you personally as well as to the list. Just make sure you have read and followed the guidelines for posting, because you might find them different to what you're used to. If you do subscribe to freebsd-questions you'll have the advantage of seeing all of the recent questions and their answers. Before you post to FreeBSD-questions, please read the guidelines at http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Many of the people who answer FreeBSD-questions are very knowledgeable, but they get frustrated when they get questions which are difficult to understand. http://www.lemis.com/email.html is worth reading too. If you're not sure that you can follow these guidelines, come back and ask the other newbies for help on how to post an effective question to the support mailing list. Maybe your question has been asked before. If you search the mailing list archives at http://www.freebsd.org/search.html first you might get the answer right away. It's always worth trying. Other mailing lists (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-CHARTERS) cover specialised areas and many are more developer-oriented. You'll need to read their charters carefully before participating, but it's probably a good idea to ask on either -newbies or -questions for advice about where to post a more specialised question. FreeBSD-announce is a very low volume read-only list for occasional announcements, such as notice of new releases, and the Really Quick Newsletter. It's worth subscribing to FreeBSD-announce too. Manuals You'll always be expected to show that you have made some effort to use the available documentation before asking for help. That's not always as easy as it sounds! If you know what documentation you need but can't locate it, send a brief query to FreeBSD-questions. If you don't know what you need, always have trouble finding it, or can't make any sense of it when you do, ask some patient newbies to steer you in the right direction. Anyone interested in writing or reviewing documentation for FreeBSD is encouraged to join the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Details are at http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/docproj.html Other resources A resource list is available at http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html to help new and inexperienced FreeBSD users to find relevant information quickly. It includes books, on line documents and tutorials, and links to web pages that other newbies have found useful for learning. If you have a suggestion for good material to be included, please write to freebsd-newbies and tell us about it. But I have seen people asking questions here! It is quite common for people to send the wrong kind of post to a mailing list. Because we're newbies it'll certainly happen here from time to time. The best thing to do if you see a message that doesn't belong on a list is to ignore it. There's always someone around whose job it is to sort these problems out privately. The posts to the lists go straight through, whatever their content. It is going to be confusing for a little while because we're all newbies so we all make mistakes. That's OK. One thing we're going to see a fair bit is people posting questions, believing they're doing the right thing by posting here as newbies, not realising how it works. If someone answers those questions the situation will snowball. There's nothing wrong with helping someone to redirect their question to freebsd-questions, but please do so gently. There's nothing wrong with the occasional mistake either. So all questions, requests for help, etc still go to freebsd-questions as usual. Ours is more of a discussion group, a place where newbies can relax with other newbies and focus more on our successes than on our temporary imperfection. We can talk about things here that are not allowed on freebsd-questions. We're also a bit freer to make the mistakes that we need to make in order to learn. _________________________________________________________________ To Subscribe to FreeBSD-Newbies: Send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "subscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message. Mail sent to freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org appears on the mailing list. _________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jul 3 9:21:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from dgriffin.org (dgriffin.org [205.147.189.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3E814C12 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 09:21:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dick@dgriffin.org) Received: from localhost (dick@localhost) by dgriffin.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA29713 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:15:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from dick@dgriffin.org) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:15:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dick Griffin To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: plugins to netscape? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've downloaded the realplayer for netscape, and when I try to install it using the directions given for installing it from realtime, i get a message indicating that the permissions on /dev/sound/ may not be set correctly. I did a 'locate', and I don't seem to have a /dev/sound/, but I know that I have a Diamond Stealth Video 2500 card, that plays sound when loaded into a WinDuds box. As anyone else encounterd this problem? If so, how did you cure it? Dick Griffin At Home 703 685 0032 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jul 3 15:52: 4 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from npcollege-edu.net (mail.npcollege-edu.net [209.232.226.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29810151F1; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from workshop@npcollege-edu.net) From: Subject: Re: Deleting Your Address. Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:26:53 Message-Id: <384.65839.763749@npcollege-edu.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From:The SFSE(Scientific Facts Search Engine). When you send an email to EDU,R&D,or Job sites,your email might be forwarded via the SFSE to find the info you are looking for. The NU(NewAmerica University)has received a copy of your email,but the date is Feb/24/99.Do you still need this info? To refresh your memory you can go again to the NU website and look for these topics: "The Redeemat has solved all environmental problems"-"The 9% Producer Fee would eliminate crime & taxes within 3 years"-"The free NHRI (National Health & Retirement Insurance")- "The job guarantee(JIC/Job Insurance Corporation)" and "The list of 22nd Centurys' products & businesses available right now". Otherwise,please allow us to DELETE your address by simply clicking REPLY. Or,request for the records of the SFSE search by putting in the subject REQUESTING INFO and click REPLY. B.Morrison workshop@npcollege-edu.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-newbies Sat Jul 3 16: 1:47 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09599151DD for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:01:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA18477; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:01:09 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19990704090105.45262@welearn.com.au> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:01:05 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Do NOT reply to "Deleting Your Address." References: <384.65839.763749@npcollege-edu.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <384.65839.763749@npcollege-edu.net>; from workshop@npcollege-edu.net on Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 12:26:53PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 12:26:53PM +0000, workshop@npcollege-edu.net wrote: > > From:The SFSE(Scientific Facts Search Engine). > > When you send an email to EDU,R&D,or Job > sites,your email might be forwarded via the > SFSE to find the info you are looking for. This was just a spam that was sent through the freebsd-newbies list. It was not sent to you personally, and they have no idea who you are. Do NOT reply to it. Do NOT even reply to remove your name, despite what they say. If you do they will GET your name and email address and likely sell it to other spammers so that your mailbox fills up with more and more stupid adverts that you have to pay for.... You know the deal. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message