From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 10 15:39:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29676 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:39:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mx1.dmz.fedex.com (mx1.dmz.fedex.com [199.81.194.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29671 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:39:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wam@mohawk.dpd.fedex.com) Received: from mx1.zmd.fedex.com (sendmail@mx1.zmd.fedex.com [199.82.159.10]) by mx1.dmz.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27188 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:38:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from s07.sa.fedex.com (root@s07.sa.fedex.com [199.81.124.17]) by mx1.zmd.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA13207 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:38:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from mohawk.dpd.fedex.com (mohawk.dpd.fedex.com [199.81.74.121]) by s07.sa.fedex.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA17383 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:38:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199901102338.RAA17383@s07.sa.fedex.com> To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Questions related to IPSec & bad link on http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd.html Organization: Federal Express Data Protection Distributed Projects Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:38:27 -0600 From: William McVey Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG First, I wanted to point out that link to the "detailed instructions" on the picobsd web site (http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd.html) is broken. Second, I wanted to see if anyone has done any investigation into adapting the PicoBSD router configurations to support IPSec? In particular, I was wondering if anyone has any experience getting the KAME (http://www.kame.net/) IPv6 networking code squeezed into a bootable floppy. -- William To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Jan 10 22:23:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13545 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:23:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13534 for ; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:23:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.93]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3AC9; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:22:30 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199901102338.RAA17383@s07.sa.fedex.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:30:04 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: William McVey Subject: RE: Questions related to IPSec & bad link on http://www.freebsd. Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 10-Jan-99 William McVey wrote: > Second, I wanted to see if anyone has done any investigation into > adapting the PicoBSD router configurations to support IPSec? In > particular, I was wondering if anyone has any experience getting > the KAME (http://www.kame.net/) IPv6 networking code squeezed into > a bootable floppy. Not yet. Because CURRENT will soon adopt the KAME/INRIA code into the source tree. That will ease a lot of pico's development. I see no point in messing around with those sources, while they get integrated Very Soon Now(tm) into CURRENT (from which we will pull our base). Btw, Andrzej, that softupdates is cool, might be an even better thing if we could put it to work with pico, then it's a megafast OS. Although, anyone tried this on one of those Flashdisks as they're called? (I think) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Jan 11 00:13:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27196 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:13:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA27157 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:13:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14622; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:19:19 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:19:19 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: William McVey , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Questions related to IPSec & bad link on http://www.freebsd. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > On 10-Jan-99 William McVey wrote: > > > Second, I wanted to see if anyone has done any investigation into > > adapting the PicoBSD router configurations to support IPSec? In > > particular, I was wondering if anyone has any experience getting > > the KAME (http://www.kame.net/) IPv6 networking code squeezed into > > a bootable floppy. > > Not yet. Because CURRENT will soon adopt the KAME/INRIA code into the > source tree. That will ease a lot of pico's development. You mean: regarding use of IPv6. Otherwise - not quite :-) > Btw, Andrzej, that softupdates is cool, might be an even better thing if we > could put it to work with pico, then it's a megafast OS. Although, anyone > tried this on one of those Flashdisks as they're called? (I think) Softupdates is under very specific copyright, that's one thing. The other thing is that its strength is when _writing_ a lot of data to the disks. As for the flash disks: it's just a different media, nothing so special about it. Yes, the read access is extremely fast, but write speed is quite low. Perhaps here's where softupdates could help a little, but you would need to do some research how well they interact with speed and wear leveling algorithms used by flash vendors... Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 03:18:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA22493 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA22481; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA88211; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:17:04 -0800 (PST) To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , picoBSD , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 19 Dec 1998 16:42:08 +0100." Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:17:04 -0800 Message-ID: <88207.916226224@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Whether we can beat that - well, this would require radically different > approach to our currently used model of crunched binaries. It's clever, > but too limiting. > > Recently I was thinking about it and I'm inclined to change this into > something more flexible, something along packages system. > > My idea is to have initially on startup a small (ca. 300-400kB) MFS > containing init and a package handling program. Then, the init would run > the packager, and this in turn would examine the list of wanted packages, > together with their space requirements. Then it would either create > appropriate MFS, mount it let's say on /usr/, and unpack all required > packages into this MFS; or, in case of bigger systems with HDD, just make > sure the required packages are present, and if not - perhaps install them > from some media (like HDD or network, or floppy). I think an approach _like_ this one is a good one, though I'm not sure you'd get away with just a straight unpacking of the binaries you need due to space constraints. My "ideal model" for this, when I sit thinking about stuff along these lines, always goes something like this: The kernel comes up, finds small MFS image im memory (say <2MB), mounts it as root and runs the "bootstrapper" tool from MFS. The bootstrapper is a single init(8) replacement which is quite intelligent - it has a TCL interpreter in it for running scripts along with a large vocabulary of TCL builtins for doing everything from "generic UI" work (e.g. uses serial/vty/??? style GUI as appropriate) to locating any number of "media" types, such as an NFS filesystem, an FTP connection or a CDROM. One of the first thing this bootstrapper does is create another MFS, but this time a very special one. This MFS would be a hacked MFS which allowed dynamic sizing. The initial size allocation would be between 20-40% of available memory, depending on memory size. This MFS, perhaps mounted as /usr, would be used to store binaries as required, presumably loaded by the bootstrapper from one of its available media types. If you run up against the end of MFS and the system says "yes" to your "give me more memory!" request, you can also then grow the MFS accordingly. Since things run out of the MFS don't get copied, it actually isn't such a dire scenario to contemplate this second MFS growing to occupy a significant percentage of main memory. If you implement "shrink" in your new dynamic MFS, it would even be possible to compact it again after, say, being asked to load and run something like emacs. :-) As to the binaries themselves, you basically want to come up with your own variant of RTLD. Instead of printing a diagnostic and falling over when something demands a shared library which isn't available, as it does now, you simply grab the shared library on demand, stick it in your shared library cache, and proceed with the requested operation. Shared executables and their dependent shared libs aren't actually the most efficient way of transporting executables but, as you've noted yourself, crunched binaries are just too inflexible and difficult to build. You ideally just want to be able to say "here's a binary, please grab and run it", throwing it away later when you either need the memory or have something which needs it more urgently (overlays). I'm still working on the "bootstrapper" as part of the work we're doing for the new sysinstall since what sysinstall needs to do and what picobsd needs to do are very similar things, when you come right down to it. I need to put up lots of dialogs and conditionally launch binaries like ppp, depending on the installation type, just as picobsd does. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 03:30:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA27313 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:30:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA27287; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:30:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA26760; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:35:57 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:35:57 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , picoBSD , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-Reply-To: <88207.916226224@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > The kernel comes up, finds small MFS image im memory (say <2MB), > mounts it as root and runs the "bootstrapper" tool from MFS. The > bootstrapper is a single init(8) replacement which is quite > intelligent - it has a TCL interpreter in it for running scripts along TCL??? Ewww... Ok, personal preferences aside, but still: it's *HUGE* ! > with a large vocabulary of TCL builtins for doing everything from > "generic UI" work (e.g. uses serial/vty/??? style GUI as appropriate) > to locating any number of "media" types, such as an NFS filesystem, an > FTP connection or a CDROM. One of the first thing this bootstrapper > does is create another MFS, but this time a very special one. This > MFS would be a hacked MFS which allowed dynamic sizing. The initial > size allocation would be between 20-40% of available memory, depending > on memory size. This MFS, perhaps mounted as /usr, would be used to > store binaries as required, presumably loaded by the bootstrapper from > one of its available media types. If you run up against the end of > MFS and the system says "yes" to your "give me more memory!" request, > you can also then grow the MFS accordingly. Since things run out of > the MFS don't get copied, it actually isn't such a dire scenario to > contemplate this second MFS growing to occupy a significant percentage > of main memory. If you implement "shrink" in your new dynamic MFS, it > would even be possible to compact it again after, say, being asked to > load and run something like emacs. :-) > > As to the binaries themselves, you basically want to come up with your > own variant of RTLD. Instead of printing a diagnostic and falling > over when something demands a shared library which isn't available, as > it does now, you simply grab the shared library on demand, stick it in > your shared library cache, and proceed with the requested operation. > Shared executables and their dependent shared libs aren't actually the > most efficient way of transporting executables but, as you've noted > yourself, crunched binaries are just too inflexible and difficult to > build. You ideally just want to be able to say "here's a binary, > please grab and run it", throwing it away later when you either need > the memory or have something which needs it more urgently (overlays). > > I'm still working on the "bootstrapper" as part of the work we're > doing for the new sysinstall since what sysinstall needs to do and > what picobsd needs to do are very similar things, when you come right > down to it. I need to put up lots of dialogs and conditionally launch > binaries like ppp, depending on the installation type, just as picobsd > does. > > - Jordan > Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 04:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA15605 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:27:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA15138; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:26:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA09519; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:31:24 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:31:23 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , picoBSD , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-Reply-To: <88207.916226224@zippy.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (Ouch.. Sorry for the previous post - my fingers slipped...) On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > The kernel comes up, finds small MFS image im memory (say <2MB), > mounts it as root and runs the "bootstrapper" tool from MFS. The > bootstrapper is a single init(8) replacement which is quite > intelligent - it has a TCL interpreter in it for running scripts along Again, why TCL? It's relatively HUGE.... > with a large vocabulary of TCL builtins for doing everything from > "generic UI" work (e.g. uses serial/vty/??? style GUI as appropriate) Ah... You think of using ctk instead of libdialog? > to locating any number of "media" types, such as an NFS filesystem, an > FTP connection or a CDROM. One of the first thing this bootstrapper > does is create another MFS, but this time a very special one. This > MFS would be a hacked MFS which allowed dynamic sizing. The initial Have you already done this special hack, or is this just a speculation? :-) I mean, it would be very useful to have something like this anyway... > size allocation would be between 20-40% of available memory, depending > on memory size. This MFS, perhaps mounted as /usr, would be used to > store binaries as required, presumably loaded by the bootstrapper from > one of its available media types. If you run up against the end of > MFS and the system says "yes" to your "give me more memory!" request, > you can also then grow the MFS accordingly. Since things run out of > the MFS don't get copied, it actually isn't such a dire scenario to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't get it.. Where copied to? > contemplate this second MFS growing to occupy a significant percentage > of main memory. If you implement "shrink" in your new dynamic MFS, it > would even be possible to compact it again after, say, being asked to > load and run something like emacs. :-) > > As to the binaries themselves, you basically want to come up with your > own variant of RTLD. Instead of printing a diagnostic and falling > over when something demands a shared library which isn't available, as > it does now, you simply grab the shared library on demand, stick it in > your shared library cache, and proceed with the requested operation. Not only that - I have yet to discover how to minimize the _contents_ of standard system libraries, because they usually contain much cruft you don't need in case of this particular set of programs. The reason is that when linking statically, all programs from boot.flp pull in something like 200kB from libc.a. When you do it dynamically, you would need to install 560kB of libc.so.3. So, that's why I had an idea of having separate set of system libraries in full versions on a separate media, and to pull in only the needed pieces which is required to run given set of programs. Perhaps this is too cumbersome, though... > Shared executables and their dependent shared libs aren't actually the > most efficient way of transporting executables but, as you've noted > yourself, crunched binaries are just too inflexible and difficult to > build. You ideally just want to be able to say "here's a binary, > please grab and run it", throwing it away later when you either need > the memory or have something which needs it more urgently (overlays). > > I'm still working on the "bootstrapper" as part of the work we're > doing for the new sysinstall since what sysinstall needs to do and > what picobsd needs to do are very similar things, when you come right > down to it. I need to put up lots of dialogs and conditionally launch > binaries like ppp, depending on the installation type, just as picobsd > does. Yes, definitely. Given the fact that normal boot.flp undergoes certain, uhm, crisis right now, perhaps we should finally join our efforts and come up with something which will be able to build (almost) any kind of bootable floppy. How about it? Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 13:16:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02434 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:16:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02428; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:16:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA89367; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:09:29 -0800 (PST) To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , picoBSD , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:35:57 +0100." Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:09:28 -0800 Message-ID: <89364.916261768@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > TCL??? Ewww... Ok, personal preferences aside, but still: it's *HUGE* ! It's not all that big, and it beats writing your own scripting language. In any case, I didn't respond to a long dormant thread just so we could get into a pointless debate about TCL. What about the *important* points we need to cover, eh Andrzej? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 13:18:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02899 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:18:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02868; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:18:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA89398; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:16:28 -0800 (PST) To: Andrzej Bialecki cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , picoBSD , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:31:23 +0100." Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:16:27 -0800 Message-ID: <89394.916262187@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ah... You think of using ctk instead of libdialog? I'm using neither. The generic UI stuff (called HUI) uses turbovision or Qt, depending on what it sees as the appropriate choice. > Have you already done this special hack, or is this just a speculation? > :-) I mean, it would be very useful to have something like this anyway... No, a resizable MFS is a "project" for somebody. > I don't get it.. Where copied to? I meant that the pages are not needlessly duplicated, that's all. So you can run stuff out of MFS directly. > Not only that - I have yet to discover how to minimize the _contents_ of > standard system libraries, because they usually contain much cruft you > don't need in case of this particular set of programs. The reason is that If you're doing your own linking, it's also conceivable that you could pull pieces out of libraries selectively. I'm not saying it'd be easy, but anything the linker does you can also duplicate. :) > Yes, definitely. Given the fact that normal boot.flp undergoes certain, > uhm, crisis right now, perhaps we should finally join our efforts and come > up with something which will be able to build (almost) any kind of > bootable floppy. How about it? Well, I'm all for that, but there are some critical pieces of the technology that are missing first. :) BTW, a large part of the reason for using TCL is that you can actually do a _large_ number of things without ever involving an external binary if you plan your TCL toolset well enough. Ideally, it should be possible to do just about everything short of ppp and ssh without requiring anything but the bootstrap and a script, and if we could get our kernel ppp to be as robust and featureful as the userland ppp in some key areas (dial on demand, better scripting), we wouldn't even need ppp as an external binary - you'd set up the ppp connection through a TCL script. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 13:20:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03420 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:20:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03412; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:20:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA89420; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:19:07 -0800 (PST) To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, picoBSD , Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:34:53 +0100." Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:19:06 -0800 Message-ID: <89416.916262346@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, since kzip has been fubared by the ELF transition, do we have a > suitable replacement anyway for the unpacking? Or am I thinking in the > wrong unpacking terms? You're thinking in the wrong unpacking terms - we don't want to compress binaries since it makes their contents impossible to share. > OK, dumb remark mayhaps, but what would be the benefit of using different > scripting languages for every nook and cranny in the OS? I mean, we're > using Forth in the new boot{loader|strapper|configuration} and then we are It's not sufficient to the task. Forth is a fine language for small boot programs and such, but I wouldn't want to write complex UIs or anything else in it. And I would have been happy to use TCL in the boot blocks instead if I'd had a couple of hundred K to play with rather than just 20K or so. :) > Jordan, you are referring to the shrink/grow abilities such as VxFS and JFS > them have (JFS can only grow I thought)? No, I'm just referring to a resizable MFS. Don't get carried away. :) > Sorry, RTLD? Real-Time LoaDer? Run-time. UTSL. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 16:13:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26095 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26077; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:13:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.1]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA47A0; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:27:16 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <88207.916226224@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:34:53 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) Cc: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, picoBSD , Andrzej Bialecki Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ Dunno if the extra jkh@freebsd.org was intentional, so I maintained it ] On 13-Jan-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Whether we can beat that - well, this would require radically different >> approach to our currently used model of crunched binaries. It's clever, >> but too limiting. >> >> Recently I was thinking about it and I'm inclined to change this into >> something more flexible, something along packages system. >> >> My idea is to have initially on startup a small (ca. 300-400kB) MFS >> containing init and a package handling program. Then, the init would run >> the packager, and this in turn would examine the list of wanted >> packages, together with their space requirements. Then it would either >> create appropriate MFS, mount it let's say on /usr/, and unpack all >> required packages into this MFS; or, in case of bigger systems with >> HDD, just make sure the required packages are present, and if not - >> perhaps install them from some media (like HDD or network, or floppy). > > I think an approach _like_ this one is a good one, though I'm not sure > you'd get away with just a straight unpacking of the binaries you need > due to space constraints. My "ideal model" for this, when I sit > thinking about stuff along these lines, always goes something like > this: Well, since kzip has been fubared by the ELF transition, do we have a suitable replacement anyway for the unpacking? Or am I thinking in the wrong unpacking terms? > The kernel comes up, finds small MFS image im memory (say <2MB), > mounts it as root and runs the "bootstrapper" tool from MFS. The > bootstrapper is a single init(8) replacement which is quite > intelligent - it has a TCL interpreter in it for running scripts along > with a large vocabulary of TCL builtins for doing everything from > "generic UI" work (e.g. uses serial/vty/??? style GUI as appropriate) > to locating any number of "media" types, such as an NFS filesystem, an > FTP connection or a CDROM. OK, dumb remark mayhaps, but what would be the benefit of using different scripting languages for every nook and cranny in the OS? I mean, we're using Forth in the new boot{loader|strapper|configuration} and then we are going to use TCL for the install stuff? True, if enough justification can be given for one of the languages as being the ultimate for a given goal then I have to agree =) What I am aiming at it is that we do have to watch for thoughts that will try to get every scripting language used in FreeBSD because it's so easy to use with this or that. Plus we do have to watch base OS bloating as well... > One of the first thing this bootstrapper > does is create another MFS, but this time a very special one. This > MFS would be a hacked MFS which allowed dynamic sizing. The initial > size allocation would be between 20-40% of available memory, depending > on memory size. This MFS, perhaps mounted as /usr, would be used to > store binaries as required, presumably loaded by the bootstrapper from > one of its available media types. If you run up against the end of > MFS and the system says "yes" to your "give me more memory!" request, > you can also then grow the MFS accordingly. Since things run out of > the MFS don't get copied, it actually isn't such a dire scenario to > contemplate this second MFS growing to occupy a significant percentage > of main memory. If you implement "shrink" in your new dynamic MFS, it > would even be possible to compact it again after, say, being asked to > load and run something like emacs. :-) Jordan, you are referring to the shrink/grow abilities such as VxFS and JFS them have (JFS can only grow I thought)? > As to the binaries themselves, you basically want to come up with your > own variant of RTLD. Instead of printing a diagnostic and falling > over when something demands a shared library which isn't available, as > it does now, you simply grab the shared library on demand, stick it in > your shared library cache, and proceed with the requested operation. > Shared executables and their dependent shared libs aren't actually the > most efficient way of transporting executables but, as you've noted > yourself, crunched binaries are just too inflexible and difficult to > build. You ideally just want to be able to say "here's a binary, > please grab and run it", throwing it away later when you either need > the memory or have something which needs it more urgently (overlays). Sorry, RTLD? Real-Time LoaDer? Also, how do ye mean the sentence: "you simply grab the shared library on demand, etc..."? > I'm still working on the "bootstrapper" as part of the work we're > doing for the new sysinstall since what sysinstall needs to do and > what picobsd needs to do are very similar things, when you come right > down to it. I need to put up lots of dialogs and conditionally launch > binaries like ppp, depending on the installation type, just as picobsd > does. Aye, indeed... How modular is sysinstall now btw? Because we might need to create more modular pieces regarding install and such. Off course, not having looked at the code yet, I might be blabbering ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 18:45:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02758 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:45:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freeway.dcfinc.com (cx74889-a.phnx3.az.home.com [24.1.193.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02747; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:45:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chad@freeway.dcfinc.com) Received: (from chad@localhost) by freeway.dcfinc.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06944; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chad) From: "Chad R. Larson" Message-Id: <199901140243.TAA06944@freeway.dcfinc.com> Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-Reply-To: <89416.916262346@zippy.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at "Jan 13, 99 01:19:06 pm" To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:43:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, small@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@nask.pl Reply-to: chad@DCFinc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I recall, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> OK, dumb remark mayhaps, but what would be the benefit of using different >> scripting languages for every nook and cranny in the OS? I mean, we're >> using Forth in the new boot{loader|strapper|configuration} and then we are > > It's not sufficient to the task. Forth is a fine language for small > boot programs and such, but I wouldn't want to write complex UIs or > anything else in it. I headed the project that wrote the entire baggage sorting and handling system for American Airlines at the Los Angeles airport. We did it on PDP-11/34A processors running Forth. I believe Forth is sufficient for much more than "boot programs and such". Perhaps you're saying =you're= not sufficient for the task. Or learning a new language would be too much hassle. Or the user community won't be able to deal with it. Or something. Those are not language sufficiency issues. Sorry. Touched a nerve there. -crl -- Chad R. Larson (CRL15) 602-953-1392 Brother, can you paradigm? chad@dcfinc.com chad@larsons.org chad@anasazi.com larson1@home.net DCF, Inc. - 14623 North 49th Place, Scottsdale, Arizona 85254-2207 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 19:56:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10838 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:56:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10830; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:56:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA91288; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:54:28 -0800 (PST) To: chad@DCFinc.com cc: asmodai@wxs.nl, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG, small@FreeBSD.ORG, abial@nask.pl Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:43:40 MST." <199901140243.TAA06944@freeway.dcfinc.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:54:28 -0800 Message-ID: <91284.916286068@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Perhaps you're saying =you're= not sufficient for the task. Or learning > a new language would be too much hassle. Or the user community won't be > able to deal with it. Or something. Those are not language > sufficiency issues. True enough, and in deference to both Chad and forth, that's exactly how I meant it. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Jan 13 22:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25573 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:24:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25547; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:23:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.187]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA39D3; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:22:49 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <89416.916262346@zippy.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:30:32 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: Trinux (+ a proposal) Cc: Andrzej Bialecki , picoBSD , jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 13-Jan-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Well, since kzip has been fubared by the ELF transition, do we have a >> suitable replacement anyway for the unpacking? Or am I thinking in the >> wrong unpacking terms? > > You're thinking in the wrong unpacking terms - we don't want to > compress binaries since it makes their contents impossible to share. OK noted, so you mean unpacking as in preparing the stuff for actual use, e.g. placement/creation of dirs and files. >> OK, dumb remark mayhaps, but what would be the benefit of using >> different >> scripting languages for every nook and cranny in the OS? I mean, we're >> using Forth in the new boot{loader|strapper|configuration} and then we >> are > > It's not sufficient to the task. Forth is a fine language for small > boot programs and such, but I wouldn't want to write complex UIs or > anything else in it. And I would have been happy to use TCL in the > boot blocks instead if I'd had a couple of hundred K to play with > rather than just 20K or so. :) Well, does the full TCL 8.1 (which I am guessing you are wanting to use) fit into the space you have or are we going to have to play Quake-axeman on the TCL distribution? >> Jordan, you are referring to the shrink/grow abilities such as VxFS and >> JFS them have (JFS can only grow I thought)? > > No, I'm just referring to a resizable MFS. Don't get carried away. :) Well, that's basically the same as what VxFS and JFS do, they can grow whenever ye need more space and shrink (VxFS) when space gets freed. >> Sorry, RTLD? Real-Time LoaDer? > > Run-time. UTSL. :) I know, I know, but given the fact that I am currently persuing/reading about every piece of the whole OS (including ports et al) forgive me for not remembering everything at this stage of source newbie =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jan 14 15:54:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04958 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:54:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04953 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05918 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:52:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Can't build net disk on 3.0.0-19990105-SNAP... Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi all, Since I couldn't build a custom PicoBSD disk, I tried to build the net floppy and I ended up with a similar slew of undefined reference errors. Can anyone offer any suggestions or know how to get this to work? Thanks. - --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNp50CraE8XzBCodNAQFKgAQAhk1sNlGV5XDyrKmWQQXakZit32MUoqfQ DeKb23KsYE8mxEp3aquf7z9dVVkgGvDsYGsCe4ruf/p1s5xyO85Ie4Y3mmGFyfgf CW3WR0dNhm1hDWkTETbV3refZTwFPC7hV5czX0IfTT2+bjr6Xhe72PQNSeg/yAsl hlyYE3UAJcY= =YCW/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Jan 14 15:57:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA05658 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:57:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05649 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:57:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05940 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:56:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:57:39 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PicoBSD custom build problems... Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi all, I'm trying to build a custom PicoBSD disk so that I can clone the hard drive of the local machine from a remote machine (via a remote dd piped to a dd on the local machine) with DHCP support. I started off with the net floppy tree and made some modifications to it so that I can get it to work. However, it seems that when it is making the crunch it doesn't link the binaries for the crunch (such as telnet, more, and a few others) statically. Thus, during the final link of crunch I get a slew of undefined errors from ld. I'm running 3.0.0-19990105-SNAP on the build machine and have a full /usr/src tree checked out on the same date. I would appreciate any help that anyone can give. Also, please cc me on all replies as I'm not currently subscribed to -small. - ---- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNp6EbLaE8XzBCodNAQGJIwP/QVasNXepFL4g0+rWLKKjr7KP36/nl9sO oPeGQE0kNch3ZutMcRZ5jbXse1MEkp3O0XXy+/do9jKyqGCulbgSkL4OjEJYrJ2P feHrzIxJ0SpSj2LSLUC7BZ1dTxciSZBGFpzZv3PPXHU/Vp3RzFP5NUqq/kUoQ65/ d7iSvNf75o8= =xUfX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 03:55:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA28646 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:55:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA28615 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:55:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02691; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:59:52 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:59:52 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: John Baldwin cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't build net disk on 3.0.0-19990105-SNAP... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, John Baldwin wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hi all, > > Since I couldn't build a custom PicoBSD disk, I tried to build the net floppy > and I ended up with a similar slew of undefined reference errors. Can anyone > offer any suggestions or know how to get this to work? Thanks. Yesterday I committed a bunch of fixes to -current. Please cvsup and let us know if they help... Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 05:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14686 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 05:32:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.kubsu.ru ([212.192.128.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA14228 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 05:29:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anonym@ic.kubsu.ru) Received: from ic146 (ic146.kubsu.ru [212.192.128.146]) by relay.kubsu.ru (8.8.8+Sun/NETRA) with SMTP id QAA04194 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:26:53 +0300 (GMT) Message-ID: <000101be408a$dd010a50$9280c0d4@ic146.kubsu.ru> From: "Anonymous" To: Subject: picoBSD can ROM boot? Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:27:21 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings to all! About a week ago i'm hear about picobsd project & he very interested me. (who am i?- i'm software engeneer from russian firm making deal about process automation.) We have many embedded systems (most legacy) running DOS (Octagon systems corp. PLC's) and this is not good. I (&my company) starting pilot project to port PLCs to UNIX. For beginning we are needing for answers to: 1. picoBSD can ROM boot? No need to run from ROM. Only start. 2.Is there support for network card with chip "SMC 91c92cf d". Im tring driver NE2000 and it not working. For my sorry now we dont have a replacement (8-bit ISA card). 3.I'm found flash card driver, but not sure about its work on _internal_ flash. Did anybody trying it? If project succeeded. FreeBSD will work in _very_ numerous systems in our (rus) gas transporting corporations. (now mostly DOS, seldom QNX, but FreeBSD is cheaper :-)) For about two weeks i don't have news. You may contact me only nointplus@usa.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 06:22:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA20373 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:22:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from postoffice.aeonflux.net (postoffice.aeonflux.net [208.139.254.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20359 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 06:22:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hg@ParView.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by postoffice.aeonflux.net (8.8.8/8.8.7/PCS9711a) with UUCP id JAA03525; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from hg@localhost) by ParView.com (8.9.1/8.8.8/n2wx) id JAA69062; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:13:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from hg) From: Howard Goldstein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13983.19736.161619.874747@slice.parview.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:13:44 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, "Anonymous" Subject: picoBSD can ROM boot? In-Reply-To: <000101be408a$dd010a50$9280c0d4@ic146.kubsu.ru> References: <000101be408a$dd010a50$9280c0d4@ic146.kubsu.ru> X-Mailer: VM 6.56 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anonymous writes: > 3.I'm found flash card driver, but not sure about its work on _internal_ > flash. Did anybody trying it? Which one? Poul's disk-on-chip driver plays very nicely with an Aaeon board's onboard DOC2000 socket+device To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 08:49:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07666 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:49:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07661 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00882; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:43:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901151643.IAA00882@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Anonymous" cc: nointplus@usa.net, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: picoBSD can ROM boot? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:27:21 +0300." <000101be408a$dd010a50$9280c0d4@ic146.kubsu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:43:37 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1. picoBSD can ROM boot? No need to run from ROM. Only start. Not yet, no. A disk-emulating flash device will work, however. > 2.Is there support for network card with chip "SMC 91c92cf d". Im tring > driver NE2000 and it not working. For my sorry now we dont have a > replacement (8-bit ISA card). SMC used to have source code for a driver for the 9100 parts, if I remember correctly. Check their FTP site. It may be necessary to update the driver, but that's pretty simple. Let us know how we can help you. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 12:30:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06792 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:30:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06785 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:30:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16791; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:30:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:31:16 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: Can't build net disk on 3.0.0-19990105-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 15-Jan-99 Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, John Baldwin wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Since I couldn't build a custom PicoBSD disk, I tried to build the net >> floppy >> and I ended up with a similar slew of undefined reference errors. Can >> anyone >> offer any suggestions or know how to get this to work? Thanks. > > Yesterday I committed a bunch of fixes to -current. Please cvsup and let > us know if they help... > > Andrzej Bialecki I think most of my errors were due to pilot error: I took out snmpd (since the port has been updated to 3.5.3 now) and I thought that all of the 'lib' lines in the crunch1/crunch.conf line fell under the comment about snmpd, I've now got them back in and almost have it working. The only problems now revolve around PAM in login. First, the login.diff file in net/crunch1 needs to be updated to the following: - ----- *** Makefile Thu Jan 14 11:50:00 1999 - --- Makefile.orig Sat Nov 21 13:27:15 1998 *************** *** 6,12 **** MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - --- 6,12 ---- MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall -DLOGIN_ACCESS -DLOGALL DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - ----- However, the other problem is that pam doesn't build a static library that crunch can link to. From my understanding of pam, however (which is a bit shaky), a static libpam would not be feasible since pam has to load other shared objects as the pam modules. I'm going to fiddle around with backing hte pam changes out of login and see if I can get it to work that way, in which case the patch above would not apply. - --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNp+lB7aE8XzBCodNAQG4zgP9HFPWjjEkWf5YvPVaa/jTmSgsJhF0MzOx DrQ+rjDjIbd4p44ohCMvw1O+FUPJoLAHJprP5CZ2zJoDpTqTbQc7CjcF/vvtns9H L5czVrWZXtn6h0QKyti2eVtYm1xwqy6sitIkHELDaNrkohBn6MjcYVJyElqsqtZN jGN38CmljuQ= =d7pa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 12:37:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07766 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07756 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:36:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15795; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:36:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:37:33 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: Can't build net disk on 3.0.0-19990105-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 15-Jan-99 Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, John Baldwin wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Since I couldn't build a custom PicoBSD disk, I tried to build the net >> floppy >> and I ended up with a similar slew of undefined reference errors. Can >> anyone >> offer any suggestions or know how to get this to work? Thanks. > > Yesterday I committed a bunch of fixes to -current. Please cvsup and let > us know if they help... > > Andrzej Bialecki I think most of my errors were due to pilot error: I took out snmpd (since the port has been updated to 3.5.3 now) and I thought that all of the 'lib' lines in the crunch1/crunch.conf line fell under the comment about snmpd, I've now got them back in and almost have it working. The only problems now revolve around PAM in login. First, the login.diff file in net/crunch1 needs to be updated to the following: - ----- *** Makefile Thu Jan 14 11:50:00 1999 - --- Makefile.orig Sat Nov 21 13:27:15 1998 *************** *** 6,12 **** MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - --- 6,12 ---- MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall -DLOGIN_ACCESS -DLOGALL DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - ----- However, the other problem is that pam doesn't build a static library that crunch can link to. From my understanding of pam, however (which is a bit shaky), a static libpam would not be feasible since pam has to load other shared objects as the pam modules. I'm going to fiddle around with backing hte pam changes out of login and see if I can get it to work that way, in which case the patch above would not apply. - --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNp+lB7aE8XzBCodNAQG4zgP9HFPWjjEkWf5YvPVaa/jTmSgsJhF0MzOx DrQ+rjDjIbd4p44ohCMvw1O+FUPJoLAHJprP5CZ2zJoDpTqTbQc7CjcF/vvtns9H L5czVrWZXtn6h0QKyti2eVtYm1xwqy6sitIkHELDaNrkohBn6MjcYVJyElqsqtZN jGN38CmljuQ= =d7pa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 12:37:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07874 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:37:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07869 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:37:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16792; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:32:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:33:14 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: Can't build net disk on 3.0.0-19990105-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 15-Jan-99 Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, John Baldwin wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Since I couldn't build a custom PicoBSD disk, I tried to build the net >> floppy >> and I ended up with a similar slew of undefined reference errors. Can >> anyone >> offer any suggestions or know how to get this to work? Thanks. > > Yesterday I committed a bunch of fixes to -current. Please cvsup and let > us know if they help... > > Andrzej Bialecki I think most of my errors were due to pilot error: I took out snmpd (since the port has been updated to 3.5.3 now) and I thought that all of the 'lib' lines in the crunch1/crunch.conf line fell under the comment about snmpd, I've now got them back in and almost have it working. The only problems now revolve around PAM in login. First, the login.diff file in net/crunch1 needs to be updated to the following: - ----- *** Makefile Thu Jan 14 11:50:00 1999 - --- Makefile.orig Sat Nov 21 13:27:15 1998 *************** *** 6,12 **** MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - --- 6,12 ---- MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall -DLOGIN_ACCESS -DLOGALL DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - ----- However, the other problem is that pam doesn't build a static library that crunch can link to. From my understanding of pam, however (which is a bit shaky), a static libpam would not be feasible since pam has to load other shared objects as the pam modules. I'm going to fiddle around with backing hte pam changes out of login and see if I can get it to work that way, in which case the patch above would not apply. - --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNp+lB7aE8XzBCodNAQG4zgP9HFPWjjEkWf5YvPVaa/jTmSgsJhF0MzOx DrQ+rjDjIbd4p44ohCMvw1O+FUPJoLAHJprP5CZ2zJoDpTqTbQc7CjcF/vvtns9H L5czVrWZXtn6h0QKyti2eVtYm1xwqy6sitIkHELDaNrkohBn6MjcYVJyElqsqtZN jGN38CmljuQ= =d7pa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 12:44:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09147 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:44:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09140 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:44:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16827; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:45:48 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: Andrzej Bialecki Subject: Re: Can't build net disk on 3.0.0-19990105-SNAP... Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG, John Baldwin Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 15-Jan-99 Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, John Baldwin wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Since I couldn't build a custom PicoBSD disk, I tried to build the net >> floppy >> and I ended up with a similar slew of undefined reference errors. Can >> anyone >> offer any suggestions or know how to get this to work? Thanks. > > Yesterday I committed a bunch of fixes to -current. Please cvsup and let > us know if they help... > > Andrzej Bialecki I think most of my errors were due to pilot error: I took out snmpd (since the port has been updated to 3.5.3 now) and I thought that all of the 'lib' lines in the crunch1/crunch.conf line fell under the comment about snmpd, I've now got them back in and almost have it working. The only problems now revolve around PAM in login. First, the login.diff file in net/crunch1 needs to be updated to the following: - ----- *** Makefile Thu Jan 14 11:50:00 1999 - --- Makefile.orig Sat Nov 21 13:27:15 1998 *************** *** 6,12 **** MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - --- 6,12 ---- MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c ! CFLAGS+=-Wall -DLOGIN_ACCESS -DLOGALL DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam - ----- However, the other problem is that pam doesn't build a static library that crunch can link to. From my understanding of pam, however (which is a bit shaky), a static libpam would not be feasible since pam has to load other shared objects as the pam modules. I'm going to fiddle around with backing hte pam changes out of login and see if I can get it to work that way, in which case the patch above would not apply. - --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNp+lB7aE8XzBCodNAQG4zgP9HFPWjjEkWf5YvPVaa/jTmSgsJhF0MzOx DrQ+rjDjIbd4p44ohCMvw1O+FUPJoLAHJprP5CZ2zJoDpTqTbQc7CjcF/vvtns9H L5czVrWZXtn6h0QKyti2eVtYm1xwqy6sitIkHELDaNrkohBn6MjcYVJyElqsqtZN jGN38CmljuQ= =d7pa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 14:38:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25609 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:38:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25604 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:38:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA17169 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:38:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:39:53 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: -current PicoBSD update... Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi all, I defined an option in usr.bin/login/login.c to turn PAM off and have it turned off. That got the crunch to compile just fine. I also had to put the fdboot and bootfd links back in /usr/mdec... Although that may have been wrong. Without snmpd, I barely fit the kernel.gz in, I have 11k left on the mount, and it fails trying to install the new boot loader in /boot. - --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNp/DfLaE8XzBCodNAQF21QP+PkRGE32xtxKKdnlk/yoRyaysF3Vh4npa 12PUHWXCt4Ww8VrOQjhjQij+XTWUBrmbjQGuvvxXD1z/wIY+0dS0anLMTD9rLF0o LtwFlcTfx9lZkzTMs9+lRhNdc7B2xdxeRssGK+brvJhMeCX1YmfJOfg6LKW7lx/Q cClKiTFk3pk= =kT1U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 15:34:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01919 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:34:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from korin.warman.org.pl (korin.nask.waw.pl [195.187.243.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01815 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:32:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abial@nask.pl) Received: from localhost (abial@localhost) by korin.warman.org.pl (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA26403; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:36:43 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: korin.warman.org.pl: abial owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:36:42 +0100 (CET) From: Andrzej Bialecki X-Sender: abial@korin.warman.org.pl To: Mike Smith cc: Anonymous , nointplus@usa.net, freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: picoBSD can ROM boot? In-Reply-To: <199901151643.IAA00882@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > > 1. picoBSD can ROM boot? No need to run from ROM. Only start. > > Not yet, no. A disk-emulating flash device will work, however. Hmmm... However, I suspect that with technical details about the bootup of such a device one could quite easily hack boot1/boot2 to load the kernel from it (IF it has a BIOS). Then, if the system were configured like picobsd is, it could run just fine. Andrzej Bialecki -------------------- ++-------++ ------------------------------------- ||PicoBSD|| FreeBSD in your pocket? Go and see: Research & Academic |+-------+| "Small & Embedded FreeBSD" Network in Poland | |TT~~~| | http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ -------------------- ~-+==---+-+ ------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Jan 15 17:18:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13293 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from littledevil.nrw-netz.de (littledevil.nrw-netz.de [212.93.3.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA13288 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:18:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from at@vew-telnet.net) Received: (qmail 25788 invoked from network); 16 Jan 1999 01:18:51 -0000 Received: from tipi.nrw-netz.de (HELO tipi.vew-telnet.net) (194.112.110.50) by littledevil.nrw-netz.de with SMTP; 16 Jan 1999 01:18:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 30093 invoked by uid 1005); 16 Jan 1999 02:18:52 +0100 Received: from karsamstag.indians (172.23.10.20) by tipi.indians with SMTP; 16 Jan 1999 02:18:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 8046 invoked by uid 506); 16 Jan 1999 02:18:49 +0100 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:18:49 +0100 From: Andreas Terbrack To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Message-ID: <19990116021849.A8042@karsamstag.indians> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95us Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe at@vew-telnet.net -- VEW TELNET Gesellschaft fuer Telekommunikation und Netzdienste mbH Unterste-Wilms-Strasse 29 Telefon +49 231 438 - 2849 44143 Dortmund Telefax +49 231 438 - 1654 Germany To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Jan 16 00:46:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20005 for freebsd-small-outgoing; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:46:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (alsatian.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19998 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:46:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from john.baldwin.cx (zapote.cslab.vt.edu [198.82.184.63]) by alsatian.cslab.vt.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA27483 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:46:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:47:47 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Got a bit farther this time... :) Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Thanks for ya'lls patience, I still can't get the net/ floppy to build yet, but I did get my clone floppy to succesfully build. I even got a statically compiled dhcp client on it as well. Thanks for the help. Below are the patches to a) login.c to make PAM optionable and b) the revised patch for the Makefile in usr.bin/login (net/crunch1/login.diff replacement) a) - ----- - --- login.c.orig Fri Jan 15 16:20:54 1999 +++ login.c Fri Jan 15 16:30:26 1999 @@ -77,8 +77,10 @@ #include #include +#ifndef NO_PAM #include #include +#endif /* NO_PAM */ #include "pathnames.h" @@ -96,7 +98,9 @@ int login_access __P((char *, char *)); void login_fbtab __P((char *, uid_t, gid_t)); +#ifndef NO_PAM static int auth_pam __P((void)); +#endif /* NO_PAM */ static int auth_traditional __P((void)); extern void login __P((struct utmp *)); static void usage __P((void)); @@ -294,16 +298,19 @@ (void)setpriority(PRIO_PROCESS, 0, -4); +#ifndef NO_PAM /* * Try to authenticate using PAM. If a PAM system error * occurs, perhaps because of a botched configuration, * then fall back to using traditional Unix authentication. */ if ((rval = auth_pam()) == -1) +#endif /* NO_PAM */ rval = auth_traditional(); (void)setpriority(PRIO_PROCESS, 0, 0); +#ifndef NO_PAM /* * PAM authentication may have changed "pwd" to the * entry for the template user. Check again to see if @@ -311,6 +318,7 @@ */ if (pwd != NULL && pwd->pw_uid == 0) rootlogin = 1; +#endif /* NO_PAM */ ttycheck: /* @@ -613,6 +621,7 @@ return rval; } +#ifndef NO_PAM /* * Attempt to authenticate the user using PAM. Returns 0 if the user is * authenticated, or 1 if not authenticated. If some sort of PAM system @@ -694,6 +703,7 @@ } return rval; } +#endif /* NO_PAM */ static void usage() - ----- b) - ----- - --- Makefile.orig Fri Jan 15 16:29:29 1999 +++ Makefile Fri Jan 15 16:29:46 1999 @@ -6,10 +6,10 @@ MAN5= login.access.5 SRCS= login.c login_access.c login_fbtab.c - -CFLAGS+=-Wall -DLOGIN_ACCESS -DLOGALL +CFLAGS+=-Wall -DNO_PAM DPADD= ${LIBUTIL} ${LIBCRYPT} ${LIBPAM} - -LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt -lpam +LDADD= -lutil -lcrypt NOSHARED=no BINMODE=4555 - ----- Thanks again for all the help. - --- John Baldwin -- http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ PGP Key: http://members.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNqBSCLaE8XzBCodNAQHjvwP/YR15KhozfuegyDtB8IeQAXPuX+7XDNPA FRQHtFWzlG8AlaNwTeDPSi0Oy9iL1wCvFwXlcRxrc29SY0reF/hu9j0O7Bdx/0xd ieryknroCSTDEpOyMMh9yygqphSCFfrg158fCgA4hRXTbxiUX8OLhdacmK1rNdB4 hovmLeIEtHQ= =Okp6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message