From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 7:39:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [209.98.143.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F51537B5B1 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:39:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from bone.nectar.com (bone.nectar.com [10.0.1.105]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF699B2A; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:39:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bone.nectar.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 594CB1DC6; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:39:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:39:06 -0500 From: "Jacques A . Vidrine" To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Message-ID: <20000625093906.A16657@bone.nectar.com> References: <20000624100439.B65163@spawn.nectar.com> <200006250240.WAA41496@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200006250240.WAA41496@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 10:41:21PM -0400 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 10:41:21PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >We could also discuss the type of issues that affect > >corporations and how to solve them using FreeBSD (i.e. providing > >conectivity to Appleshare, Netware and NT boxes). Sounds like a topic for -questions or even -net. > Basically the "what do wo do now that they bought into the idea". > Also the "followup" or scalation of FreeBSD use. > > In theory this list is a mixed bag of Advocacy and Questions. *shrugs* I think the existing lists provide the forum needed. -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 7:47: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A1D37B5DC for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:47:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA42981; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:40:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006251440.KAA42981@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Jacques A . Vidrine" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:40:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <20000625093906.A16657@bone.nectar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 09:39:06 -0500, Jacques A . Vidrine wrote: >On Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 10:41:21PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >> >We could also discuss the type of issues that affect >> >corporations and how to solve them using FreeBSD (i.e. providing >> >conectivity to Appleshare, Netware and NT boxes). > >Sounds like a topic for -questions or even -net. So far there are about 5 people besides myself that disagree. I have setup an egroups list. I am waiting until wednesday to see if I hear from the listmaster, otherwise I am going live with egroups. >> In theory this list is a mixed bag of Advocacy and Questions. > >*shrugs* I think the existing lists provide the forum needed. >Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org Do you use FreeBSD at your company? Specially if it is not an ISP? Haven't you had questions which were more along the lines of "what calendar software can I install"? This may have nothing to do with FreeBSD, but this may be the one break an individual has to get FreeBSD in the company. Perhaps she got a small box to "test" and if he can bring up applications which are highly used by the company he/she may be able to permanently get FreeBSD in the company. The other feeling that I have got from those who have answered is that they don't want to use existing lists because they are way too crowded with too many other types of messages. This list would allow us to have a place for THIS type of discussion only. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 8:54:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nisser.com (c1870039.telekabel.chello.nl [212.187.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C997937BB78 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:54:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Received: from nisser.com (roelof [10.0.0.2]) by nisser.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA51542; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:54:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Message-ID: <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:55:46 +0200 From: Roelof Osinga Organization: eboa - engineering buro Office Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Lynch Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Real religious wars! (fwd) References: <20000615000214.C79055@atdot.dotat.org> <39551AE8.AF6E7D6A@gorean.org> <007301bfde3f$44f0c940$8ab303d8@tech138> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Chris Lynch wrote: > > ... > What are we gonna change the mascot to? A jack-rabbit? how bout a teddy > bear, that's as cute as that cuddly lil penguin. How about "my little pony" > ripoffs. Or > a dinosaur (wait, that will anger creationist). > how about a dolphin, or a porcupine? Might one suggest an icon of a fallen arch-angel calling it Splat-2000? Anyway, who cares. If these rumours *are* true - and would any true judeo-christian lie? - then they'll all be running Linux now. Which is a good thing. Sure, having all god-fearing (now there's a nice concept :) schools running xBSD over Linux might be better. So let's show what we're made off and allow Linux a chance. Let any school that feares its god run Linux! Roelof -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Eboa (ingenieursburo Office Automation) web. http://eboa.com/ P.O. Box 55 mail info@eboa.com Weerd 24 8900 AB Leeuwarden tel. +31-582123014 the Netherlands fax. +31-582160293 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 10:16:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC4437B6DD for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:16:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkeysler@nwlink.com) Received: from fargo.caldonia.net (ip16.r1.d.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.172.16]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19551; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 10:22:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Keeler X-Sender: kkeysler@localhost To: Roelof Osinga Cc: Chris Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Real religious wars! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1827940901-961953768=:18775" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1827940901-961953768=:18775 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, Roelof Osinga wrote: > Chris Lynch wrote: > > > > ... > > What are we gonna change the mascot to? A jack-rabbit? how bout a teddy > > bear, that's as cute as that cuddly lil penguin. How about "my little pony" > > ripoffs. Or > > a dinosaur (wait, that will anger creationist). > > how about a dolphin, or a porcupine? > > Might one suggest an icon of a fallen arch-angel calling it Splat-2000? > > Anyway, who cares. If these rumours *are* true - and would any true > judeo-christian lie? - then they'll all be running Linux now. Which > is a good thing. Sure, having all god-fearing (now there's a > nice concept :) schools running xBSD over Linux might be better. > > So let's show what we're made off and allow Linux a chance. Let > any school that feares its god run Linux! > > Roelof I'm working on a new distribution for those afraid of mascots. 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send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 11:15:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC40137BC16 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.87.44]) by mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000625181505.WQMS381.mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:15:05 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01861; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:14:50 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:14:50 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Ken Keeler Cc: Roelof Osinga , Chris Lynch , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Real religious wars! (fwd) Message-ID: <20000625191450.J233@parish> References: <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from kkeysler@nwlink.com on Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 10:22:48AM -0700 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 10:22:48AM -0700, Ken Keeler wrote: > On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, Roelof Osinga wrote: > > > Chris Lynch wrote: > > > > > > ... > > > What are we gonna change the mascot to? A jack-rabbit? how bout a teddy > > > bear, that's as cute as that cuddly lil penguin. How about "my little pony" > > > ripoffs. Or > > > a dinosaur (wait, that will anger creationist). > > > how about a dolphin, or a porcupine? > > > > Might one suggest an icon of a fallen arch-angel calling it Splat-2000? > > > > Anyway, who cares. If these rumours *are* true - and would any true > > judeo-christian lie? - then they'll all be running Linux now. Which > > is a good thing. Sure, having all god-fearing (now there's a > > nice concept :) schools running xBSD over Linux might be better. > > > > So let's show what we're made off and allow Linux a chance. Let > > any school that feares its god run Linux! > > > > Roelof > > I'm working on a new distribution for those afraid of mascots. > > Please see the attached. ;) > ROFLVVL. I like it, but doesn't it infringe Col. Sanders trademark ;-) > E=mc^2 > student 1 each Ken Keeler > Phi Theta Kappa -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 11:17: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E3137BC42 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:16:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.87.44]) by mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000625181651.WQRA381.mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:16:51 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01876; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:16:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:16:29 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Roelof Osinga Cc: Chris Lynch , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Real religious wars! (fwd) Message-ID: <20000625191629.K233@parish> References: <20000615000214.C79055@atdot.dotat.org> <39551AE8.AF6E7D6A@gorean.org> <007301bfde3f$44f0c940$8ab303d8@tech138> <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com>; from roelof@nisser.com on Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:55:46PM +0200 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jun 25, 2000 at 05:55:46PM +0200, Roelof Osinga wrote: > Chris Lynch wrote: > > > > ... > > What are we gonna change the mascot to? A jack-rabbit? how bout a teddy > > bear, that's as cute as that cuddly lil penguin. How about ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, right. I'll bet you a pound to a pinch of s*** that if you try to cuddle a penguin it'll peck your bloody eye out. > "my little pony" > > ripoffs. Or > > a dinosaur (wait, that will anger creationist). > > how about a dolphin, or a porcupine? > > Might one suggest an icon of a fallen arch-angel calling it Splat-2000? > > Anyway, who cares. If these rumours *are* true - and would any true > judeo-christian lie? - then they'll all be running Linux now. Which > is a good thing. Sure, having all god-fearing (now there's a > nice concept :) schools running xBSD over Linux might be better. > > So let's show what we're made off and allow Linux a chance. Let > any school that feares its god run Linux! > > Roelof > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eboa (ingenieursburo Office Automation) web. http://eboa.com/ > P.O. Box 55 mail info@eboa.com > Weerd 24 > 8900 AB Leeuwarden tel. +31-582123014 > the Netherlands fax. +31-582160293 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 11:43: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C50037BCEF for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04477; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000625124058.04efa220@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 12:42:37 -0600 To: Ken Keeler , Roelof Osinga From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Real religious wars! (fwd) Cc: Chris Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:22 AM 6/25/2000, Ken Keeler wrote: >I'm working on a new distribution for those afraid of mascots. > >Please see the attached. ;) Unfortunately, your logo is offensive because to some it appears to lampoon the chicken-sacrificing practices of the religion known as Santeria. Try again. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 14:45:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nisser.com (c1870039.telekabel.chello.nl [212.187.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6978137B9D7 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:45:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Received: from nisser.com (roelof [10.0.0.2]) by nisser.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA52892; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:45:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Message-ID: <39567DC1.5FCFA819@nisser.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:46:41 +0200 From: Roelof Osinga Organization: eboa - engineering buro Office Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Ken Keeler , Chris Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Realreligious wars! (fwd) References: <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20000625124058.04efa220@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 11:22 AM 6/25/2000, Ken Keeler wrote: > > >I'm working on a new distribution for those afraid of mascots. > > > >Please see the attached. ;) > > Unfortunately, your logo is offensive because to some it > appears to lampoon the chicken-sacrificing practices of the > religion known as Santeria. No, no, no, no. You got that all wrong. That's a hardworking chick. She's shoveling ... Yep, you're right. That's bound to be offensive to some group Roelof -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Eboa (ingenieursburo Office Automation) web. http://eboa.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 14:50:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nisser.com (c1870039.telekabel.chello.nl [212.187.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1B837B9D7 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 14:50:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Received: from nisser.com (roelof [10.0.0.2]) by nisser.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA52926; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:49:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Message-ID: <39567ED5.98C7FF7B@nisser.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:51:17 +0200 From: Roelof Osinga Organization: eboa - engineering buro Office Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: Ken Keeler , Chris Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: LSD [Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of ...] References: <39562B82.452AEC1C@nisser.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20000625124058.04efa220@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > ... > Try again. ;-) Personally I think the pain's in the lenght of the name. Full acronyms are just way cooler. Henceforth I'm suggesting a rename of PicoBSD to Light Software Distribution. Roelof -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Eboa (ingenieursburo Office Automation) web. http://eboa.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 19:16:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0927B37B853 for ; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kkeysler@nwlink.com) Received: from fargo.caldonia.net (ip132.r14.d.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.175.132]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27490; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:23:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Keeler X-Sender: kkeysler@localhost To: Roelof Osinga Cc: Brett Glass , Chris Lynch , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Realreligious wars! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <39567DC1.5FCFA819@nisser.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, Roelof Osinga wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: > > > > At 11:22 AM 6/25/2000, Ken Keeler wrote: > > > > >I'm working on a new distribution for those afraid of mascots. > > > > > >Please see the attached. ;) > > > > Unfortunately, your logo is offensive because to some it > > appears to lampoon the chicken-sacrificing practices of the > > religion known as Santeria. > > No, no, no, no. > > You got that all wrong. > > That's a hardworking chick. She's shoveling ... > > Yep, you're right. That's bound to be offensive to some group > > Roelof > Actually, I was worried the chickens might be offended... :) E=mc^2 student 1 each Ken Keeler Phi Theta Kappa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 25 21:22:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts2.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6E537B74E; Sun, 25 Jun 2000 21:22:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.org) Received: from orange ([207.236.124.158]) by tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20000626042227.REOC19472.tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net@orange>; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:22:27 -0400 Received: (from tim@localhost) by orange (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA76197; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:24:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:23:59 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: Warner Losh , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access Message-ID: <20000626002359.A64996@orange> References: <200006210653.XAA20267@freefall.freebsd.org> <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com>; from Daniel C. Sobral on Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 07:03:54PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-committers -> -chat] On Fri, Jun 23, 2000 at 07:03:54PM +0900, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > Would our estimate japanese committers please settle on a standard for > names? Here in the Engineering Science (previously Engineering Physics) program at UoT, we've toyed with the idea of getting-rid of names altogether. Rather, people would be referred to according to their rank within the class. This would give me a name like "number 254"(*) or something, but that's not the point. :) We could name people within FreeBSD according to their order within the cvs/access file. This would make Tim van der Hoek be known as "number 93" and Daniel C. Sobral known as "number 137". I think this would be a good solution to our cross-cultural problems. I think it also might reduce the number of conflicts. If I said "Danial C. Sobral made a pretty dumb suggestion the other day", that would certainly raise somebody's hackles. If, however, I said "Number 137 is spitting his usual drivel", that could slip right past and nobody would notice. ;-) ;-) (*) Actually, I think that's better than double the number of people in the class, but that's also beside the point. -- Signature withheld by request of author. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 2:24:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mout1.silyn-tek.de (mout1.silyn-tek.de [194.25.165.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B8B37BBD2; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:24:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from [192.168.32.34] (helo=mx2.silyn-tek.de) by mout1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 136UJW-0002sb-00; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:32:18 +0200 Received: from p3e9d38d6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([62.157.56.214] helo=neutron.cichlids.com) by mx2.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 136UJU-0000yW-00; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:32:16 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19AEFAC27; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:32:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cichlids.cichlids.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id C642614AB2; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:32:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:32:19 +0200 From: number 212 To: number 93 Cc: number 143 , number 67 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access Message-ID: <20000626103219.D3549@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mail-Followup-To: number 93 , number 143 , number 67 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200006210653.XAA20267@freefall.freebsd.org> <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com> <20000626002359.A64996@orange> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000626002359.A64996@orange>; from vanderh@ecf.utoronto.ca on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 12:23:59AM -0400 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake number 93 (vanderh@ecf.utoronto.ca): > This would give me a name like "number 254"(*) or something, but that's not > the point. :) We could name people within FreeBSD according to their > order within the cvs/access file. This would make Tim van der Hoek be > known as "number 93" and Daniel C. Sobral known as "number 137". Nice idea, number 93. Please change your from-line. Also, we need a mother-drone, as the Borg have :) number 212 -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 4: 9:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB80837B808; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p03-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.4]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id UAA24826; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:09:00 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:09:46 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: number 212 Cc: number 93 , number 67 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access References: <200006210653.XAA20267@freefall.freebsd.org> <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com> <20000626002359.A64996@orange> <20000626103219.D3549@cichlids.cichlids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org number 212 wrote: > > Thus spake number 93 (vanderh@ecf.utoronto.ca): > > > This would give me a name like "number 254"(*) or something, but that's not > > the point. :) We could name people within FreeBSD according to their > > order within the cvs/access file. This would make Tim van der Hoek be > > known as "number 93" and Daniel C. Sobral known as "number 137". > > Nice idea, number 93. > Please change your from-line. > > Also, we need a mother-drone, as the Borg have :) > > number 212 I'm not a number! I'm a free man! -- 137 (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@the.great.underground.bsdconpiracy.org Windows works, for sufficently small values of "works". To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 4:19:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mout1.silyn-tek.de (mout1.silyn-tek.de [194.25.165.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D8137BC39; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 04:19:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from [192.168.32.33] (helo=mx1.silyn-tek.de) by mout1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 136WvC-0004Dd-00; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:19:22 +0200 Received: from p3e9d38d6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([62.157.56.214] helo=neutron.cichlids.com) by mx1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 136WvB-00057Y-00; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:19:21 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A9AAC27; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:19:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cichlids.cichlids.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DB2E014AB2; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:19:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:19:23 +0200 From: number 212 To: number 137 Cc: number 93 , number 67 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access Message-ID: <20000626131923.A10073@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mail-Followup-To: number 137 , number 93 , number 67 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200006210653.XAA20267@freefall.freebsd.org> <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com> <20000626002359.A64996@orange> <20000626103219.D3549@cichlids.cichlids.com> <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com>; from dcs@newsguy.com on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 08:09:46PM +0900 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake number 137 (dcs@newsguy.com): > I'm not a number! I'm a free man! You have just been assimilated... number 212 -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 9:17:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B7B37BA3B for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:17:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA68735; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:17:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA19457; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:15:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200006261615.KAA19457@harmony.village.org> To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access Cc: number 212 , number 93 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:09:46 +0900." <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com> References: <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com> <200006210653.XAA20267@freefall.freebsd.org> <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com> <20000626002359.A64996@orange> <20000626103219.D3549@cichlids.cichlids.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:15:24 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com> "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: : I'm not a number! I'm a free man! Why did you resign? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 9:25:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from Astrovan.cstone.net (astrovan.cstone.net [209.145.64.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B424537B9A5 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:25:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from highway@cstone.net) Received: from cstone.net (aylee.mrgoodbucks.com [209.145.93.143]) by Astrovan.cstone.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59789U13500L1350S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:18:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3957845C.3F5965E1@cstone.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:27:08 -0400 From: Sean Michael Whipkey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jacques A . Vidrine" Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate References: <200006240613.CAA37632@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000624100439.B65163@spawn.nectar.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jacques A . Vidrine" wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 24, 2000 at 02:15:41AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > Given a recent email on Advocacy about an email a boss sent > > regarding the use of FreeBSD at their organization it got me > > thinking. It would be benefitial to have a list whre people can > > disucss using FreeBSD in a corporate environment and in > > particular the type of strategies involved into having > > management buy in the idea. > > Sounds like freebsd-advocacy to me. Actually, I'd see it more like freebsd-isp, though not just for ISPs. I'd love to see somewhere that I can talk to other e-commerce sites about their usages of BSD, and I don't know of a list that would be appropriate like freebsd-isp is for ISPs. SeanMike -- SeanMike Whipkey - Geek-a-mondo "Extra ninjas make any party, family gathering, or war scene tons more interesting." http://www.ninjahypothesis.com/messenger.htm ObCompanyPlug: http://www.mrgoodbucks.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 9:57:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ptd.net (mail1.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C08D337B902 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:57:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tms2@mail.ptd.net) Received: (qmail 1912 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2000 16:57:08 -0000 Received: from du211034.cli.ptd.net (HELO mail.ptd.net) (204.186.211.34) by mail.ptd.net with SMTP; 26 Jun 2000 16:57:08 -0000 Message-ID: <39578358.83E9C054@mail.ptd.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:22:48 -0400 From: "Thomas M. Sommers" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: number 212 , number 93 , number 67 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access References: <200006210653.XAA20267@freefall.freebsd.org> <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com> <20000626002359.A64996@orange> <20000626103219.D3549@cichlids.cichlids.com> <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: > > I'm not a number! I'm a free man! You are number 6. Why did you resign? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 9:59:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD09137BA57 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA69011; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:59:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA19988; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:57:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200006261657.KAA19988@harmony.village.org> To: "Thomas M. Sommers" Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access Cc: "Daniel C. Sobral" , number 212 , number 93 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:22:48 EDT." <39578358.83E9C054@mail.ptd.net> References: <39578358.83E9C054@mail.ptd.net> <200006210653.XAA20267@freefall.freebsd.org> <3953360A.56631139@newsguy.com> <20000626002359.A64996@orange> <20000626103219.D3549@cichlids.cichlids.com> <395739FA.C4C3D867@newsguy.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:57:38 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <39578358.83E9C054@mail.ptd.net> "Thomas M. Sommers" writes: : "Daniel C. Sobral" wrote: : > : > I'm not a number! I'm a free man! : : You are number 6. Why did you resign? Which Side Are You on? "That would be telling..." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 10: 2:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5D137BB74 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:02:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA69040; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:02:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA20043; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:00:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200006261700.LAA20043@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: cvs commit: CVSROOT access To: "Thomas M. Sommers" , "Daniel C. Sobral" , number 212 , number 93 , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:57:38 MDT." Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:00:51 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org P.S. village.org. Think about it before dropping prisoner references into the mix: harmony.village.org rover.village.org anvil.village.org green-dome.village.org cave.village.org taxi.village.org local-service.village.org hypodermic.village.org lotus.village.org speed-learn.village.org microphone.village.org fountain.village.org big-ben.village.org Bonus points to anybody that can identify all the prisoner references here. :-) Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 12:12:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from transbay.net (dns1.transbay.net [209.133.53.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1CB37BAFD for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cassiel@kizmiaz.dis.org) Received: from freya.mail.dis.org (freya.transbay.net [209.133.53.8]) by transbay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10551; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.1.20000626114811.034db620@mail.dis.org> X-Sender: cassiel@mail.dis.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:08:36 -0700 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Cassiel Subject: Re: [Oz-ISP] FreeBSD and the forces of darkness. Real religious wars! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <39551AE8.AF6E7D6A@gorean.org> References: <20000615000214.C79055@atdot.dotat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:32 PM 6/24/00 -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > Moved to -chat. > >Mark Newton wrote: > > > > "I've just had a converstaion with xxxx xxxx (our Principal) about some > > > of the changes. We've had to deal with some of the philosphical issues > > > related to BSD. As you know BSD uses a 'devil' icon to portray the BSD > > > symbol. Given we are a Christian school this is a significant > concern for > > > us. Even after reviewing the sites blurb about the origin of the symbol, > > > we've come to the conclusion that it would not be appropriate for us to > > > use the software." > > > > > > Can you believe it?! > > As silly as this sounds to you and I, the "mascot" will be a > barrier to >*BSD*'s adoption in many parts of the world. We don't have to like that >fact, but we do have to deal with it. > >Doug Well, this Is actually easy to deal with . . . . For those so inclined there is always; http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/4081 and http://www.dynamsol.com/satanix/ or http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~isoma/spare/satanix.html Cassiel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 19: 7: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BB537B563 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:07:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA27680; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:00:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006270200.WAA27680@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Jacques A . Vidrine" , "Sean Michael Whipkey" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:58:00 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <3957845C.3F5965E1@cstone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:27:08 -0400, Sean Michael Whipkey wrote: >Actually, I'd see it more like freebsd-isp, though not just for ISPs. Although there is much in common with organizations I think ISPs have some unique needs which differentiate them from this other group. >I'd love to see somewhere that I can talk to other e-commerce sites >about their usages of BSD, and I don't know of a list that would be >appropriate like freebsd-isp is for ISPs. so what is your feeling about this "FreeBSD-Corporate"? This would be a place to discuss with other organizations about FreeBSD. From discussions about pre-made e-commerce systems which work on FreeBSD to processing payment. As long as you are trying to push/use FreeBSD your messages would be welcome on that list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 20: 5: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D4D937BDF4 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:05:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A486E1C66; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:05:01 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: usenix pictures, be afraid. Message-ID: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org USENIX pictures hot off the smartcard: http://people.freebsd.org/~billf/usenix2000/ -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect / Computer Horizons Corp - CVM e-mail: billf@chc-chimes.com / billf@FreeBSD.org Note: No sheep were harmed in the making of this photoalbum. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 20:58:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD75437BDFA for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA29208 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:52:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:49:56 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As I considering giving up on upgrading a box from 3.4 Stable to 4.X I wonder why can't upgrades be made more gradual for those of us following stable? Of 3 boxes I chose to bite the bullet on two and save my data and install 4 from scratch. For the only box that I decided to try and upgrade it has been very treacherous. Sure many people have done it successfully, but for those of us that have failed after having followed carefully /usr/src/UPDATING this is very discouraging. As I am on the verge of convincing my boss to use FreeBSD at work I feel that the current upgrade paths for those following stable need be simpler. I wonder if I want to put myself on a position where I would be responsible for having to upgrade a whole set of computers with such difficult upgrade paths. Must it be this way forever? Are BSDI upgrades any better? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 23:15:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt052n3e.san.rr.com (dt052n3e.san.rr.com [204.210.33.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95AC537BE15 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:15:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt052n3e.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18900; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:14:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Message-ID: <39584636.AADDFA31@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:14:14 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0603 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? References: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Francisco Reyes wrote: > > As I considering giving up on upgrading a box from 3.4 Stable to > 4.X I wonder why can't upgrades be made more gradual for those > of us following stable? Technically, you're not "following," you're moving to a whole new branch. By definition, new branches are made when the architectural changes are such that an easy migration path is not possible. That's why we highly encourage people to back up their data and install major version upgrades from scratch. Better luck next time, Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 23:24:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7111D37BE15 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:24:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA26233; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:20:45 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:49:56PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:49:56PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > As I considering giving up on upgrading a box from 3.4 Stable to > 4.X I wonder why can't upgrades be made more gradual for those > of us following stable? I think the problem is likely one of perception. One might think that there is a logical progression of little steps as follows: 3.0 -> 3.1 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 4.0 The problem is that it's actually more like this: 3.0 -> 3.1 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 3.5 \ \ \ -------------> 4.0 What you have is two diverting streams of development starting the day the previous .0 release ships[0]. While many changes are merged back to the previous branch (or sometimes even further[1]), there are inevtiably things which are simply too major to merge into -STABLE. This means that when you upgrade from one major release to the next you aren't just following along a nice neat path, you are making a hugh jump to another path which has a substantialy differnent goal (adding or improving major features vs. bug fixes and improvements that don't change the way things work significantly). With the 3.x->4.x jump you got newbus, ssh, new compilers, etc. > Of 3 boxes I chose to bite the bullet on two and save my data > and install 4 from scratch. For the only box that I decided to > try and upgrade it has been very treacherous. Sure many people > have done it successfully, but for those of us that have failed > after having followed carefully /usr/src/UPDATING this is very > discouraging. All I can really say to this is: 1) source upgrades of major version are only kinda supported. They are very nice, but you've got to expect some bumps. 2) with following -stable and -current during the transition period I encountered no problems that I hand't seen a posted solution for. I've had minimal problems moving various systems from 2.2.8->3.0, 3.3->4.0, 3.4->4.0, 4.0->5.0, etc. The biggest thing seems to be reading -current and -stable around release time to be sure you know the issues. This isn't exactly light reading, but as far as I can tell it's the only really reliable way (not do disparage Warner's excelent src/UPDATING which I find extreamly helpful to reminding me of what things I have to remember to work around.) > As I am on the verge of convincing my boss to use FreeBSD at > work I feel that the current upgrade paths for those following > stable need be simpler. I wonder if I want to put myself on a > position where I would be responsible for having to upgrade a > whole set of computers with such difficult upgrade paths. As I said above, major version bumps aren't small steps and there is no trivial path from what at the end of on branch to what's at the beginning of the next one. > Must it be this way forever? That depends on what you mean. Hopefully, the next generation sysinstall will have sufficiently better package management for binary upgrades to be easier (they are an option today). I suspect that source upgrades are always going to have some bumps. Just think, 5.0 is going to have a whole new, manditory kernel programming model to go with its new SMP support. > Are BSDI upgrades any better? I don't know. They are certaintly going to be different. You'll have to define better for yourself in any case. -- Brooks [0] In this case this is a lie. That's what people would like to happen, but 3.0 was such a hugh change that the branch way delayed until 3.1 (the first real release in the 3.x line) to insure that developers stabalized the system before marching off to add features. [1] A recent change to 5.0-current was merged all the way back to the 2.1 branch. -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 23:38:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF3A137BE3D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@earthlink.net) Received: from dialin-client.earthlink.net (pool0652.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.252.142]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01939; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by dialin-client.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00700; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:34:52 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "Jacques A . Vidrine" , Sean Michael Whipkey , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Message-ID: <20000626233452.C302@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <3957845C.3F5965E1@cstone.net> <200006270200.WAA27680@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006270200.WAA27680@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 09:58:00PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 09:58:00PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:27:08 -0400, Sean Michael Whipkey wrote: > > >Actually, I'd see it more like freebsd-isp, though not just for ISPs. > > Although there is much in common with organizations I think ISPs > have some unique needs which differentiate them from this other > group. > > >I'd love to see somewhere that I can talk to other e-commerce sites > >about their usages of BSD, and I don't know of a list that would be > >appropriate like freebsd-isp is for ISPs. > > so what is your feeling about this "FreeBSD-Corporate"? > This would be a place to discuss with other organizations about > FreeBSD. > >From discussions about pre-made e-commerce systems which work on > FreeBSD to > processing payment. As long as you are trying to push/use > FreeBSD your messages would be welcome on that list. How 'bout, FreeBSD-eBiz@FreeBSD.ORG Or insert your own eWord, FreeBSD-e___@FreBSD.ORG Doncha feel trendy? *Duck* (Seriously, FreeBSD-business? "Corporate" just doesn't do it for me.) -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jun 26 23:41:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C446E37BE6A for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@earthlink.net) Received: from dialin-client.earthlink.net (pool0652.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.252.142]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22874; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by dialin-client.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00714; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:38:50 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000626233850.D302@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:49:56PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:49:56PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > As I considering giving up on upgrading a box from 3.4 Stable to > 4.X I wonder why can't upgrades be made more gradual for those > of us following stable? If you want to do it the simplest way, do a binary upgrade (the smallest binary distribution only) then do the make-world. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 0:39:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F2F37BE67 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:39:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 136pxQ-00076J-00; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:38:56 +0200 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:38:56 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000627093855.A27101@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:49:56PM -0400 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon 2000-06-26 (23:49), Francisco Reyes wrote: > Of 3 boxes I chose to bite the bullet on two and save my data > and install 4 from scratch. For the only box that I decided to > try and upgrade it has been very treacherous. Sure many people > have done it successfully, but for those of us that have failed > after having followed carefully /usr/src/UPDATING this is very > discouraging. It might help to know how it failed. make buildworld make buildkernel make installkernel (reboot single) make installworld NOINFO=1 make installworld worked in almost every case. (and if Ruslan has/d MFC'd to 3.5 the install-info changes, the NOINFO=1 installworld wouldn't be necessary) Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 1:50:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B10E37BF7B; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:50:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA07394; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:50:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? In-Reply-To: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Francisco Reyes wrote: > As I considering giving up on upgrading a box from 3.4 Stable to > 4.X I wonder why can't upgrades be made more gradual for those > of us following stable? As others have pointed out, you weren't following stable, you were jumping to a whole new version. The simple, painless way to do this is to do a binary upgrade, not a source one. > Must it be this way forever? Source-level upgrades will always be fraught with danger, especially those which cross major revisions. > Are BSDI upgrades any better? I've never installed BSD/OS, but I'd bet they're not significantly better than our binary upgrades, which are the equivalent operation. Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 4:46:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54DB37B943 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA33645; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:40:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006271140.HAA33645@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "cjclark@alum.mit.edu" , "Crist J. Clark" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" , "Jacques A . Vidrine" , "Sean Michael Whipkey" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:36:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <20000626233452.C302@dialin-client.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:34:52 -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: >How 'bout, > > FreeBSD-eBiz@FreeBSD.ORG > >Or insert your own eWord, > > FreeBSD-e___@FreBSD.ORG >Doncha feel trendy? Not all companies are in the "e"volution of things. In my case I am not part of the department doing those initiatives. I need to approach bringing FreeBSD in the areas that I work with and most importantly that I can be involved to make sure I can be the keeper until I either train someone else or they learn out of their own interest. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 4:48:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A23937B990 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:48:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA33658; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:42:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006271142.HAA33658@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "cjclark@alum.mit.edu" , "Crist J. Clark" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:38:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <20000626233850.D302@dialin-client.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:38:50 -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: >On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:49:56PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >> As I considering giving up on upgrading a box from 3.4 Stable to >> 4.X I wonder why can't upgrades be made more gradual for those >> of us following stable? > >If you want to do it the simplest way, do a binary upgrade (the >smallest binary distribution only) then do the make-world. >Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu Are there instructions anywhere on how to do this? This weekend I am going to start from scratch this particular troubled box, but in the future this may be something I may be willing to try. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 5: 1:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B408637B635; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 05:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA33702; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:55:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006271155.HAA33702@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Kris Kennaway" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:51:48 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:50:27 -0700 (PDT), Kris Kennaway wrote: >The simple, painless way to do this is to do a binary upgrade, not a >source one. I am very interested on how this can be done. The box in question is scheduled to be done this weekend. So after I backup everything I could experiment with this type of upgrade before I proceed with a fresh install. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 6:54:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [209.0.55.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD9337BF57 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:54:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1662B767A; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08B311D9F; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 06:57:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Bill Fumerola Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usenix pictures, be afraid. In-Reply-To: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Bill Fumerola wrote: :USENIX pictures hot off the smartcard: :http://people.freebsd.org/~billf/usenix2000/ http://people.freebsd.org/~billf/usenix2000/DSC00045.JPG.html I can enlighten on most of that one. Starting with Ceren it's: Ceren, Unknown (to me), Bill Paul, Bill Swingle, The back of Branson Matheson's head, the back of my head, the side and back of Guido Rooij (I'm not sure on spelling of that last name, Guido can hit me or something later if he feels it's necessary), and part of Arjen (who's last name I don't know.) Jamie Bowden -- "Of course, that's sort of like asking how other than Marketing, Microsoft is different from any other software company..." Kenneth G. Cavness To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 7: 5:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9653537BF3E for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:05:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9252A1C6E; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:05:52 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: Jamie Bowden Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usenix pictures, be afraid. Message-ID: <20000627100552.K18942@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from ragnar@sysabend.org on Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 06:57:33AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 06:57:33AM -0700, Jamie Bowden wrote: > I can enlighten on most of that one. Starting with Ceren it's: > > Ceren, Unknown (to me), Bill Paul, Bill Swingle, The back of Branson > Matheson's head, the back of my head, the side and back of Guido Rooij > (I'm not sure on spelling of that last name, Guido can hit me or something > later if he feels it's necessary), and part of Arjen (who's last name I > don't know.) The guy with the hawaiian shirt sitting between Ceren and Bill Paul is Jim Mock. Behind Bill Paul is Paul Saab, to the left of him is Ken Merry, to the left of him is unknown. thanks. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect / Computer Horizons Corp - CHIMES e-mail: billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org PS. I was just lazy, I knew all of those (except you and Branson Matheson) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 9:39:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65D5C37C00E for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@nwlink.com) Received: from utah (jcwells@utah.nwlink.com [209.20.130.41]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17645; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:50:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Wells X-Sender: jcwells@utah To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? In-Reply-To: <20000626233850.D302@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: > If you want to do it the simplest way, do a binary upgrade (the > smallest binary distribution only) then do the make-world. ABSOLUTELY! This is really the easiest way. I ended up doing this during the 3.0 upgrade. When I was done I was convinced that this was the way to move up a major release for those who don't like pain. Being stubborn and curious like I am, I ignored my previously gained wisdom during the 4.0 upgrade. Some people never learn! :) Later, Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 9:40:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F023E37C378; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@nwlink.com) Received: from utah (jcwells@utah.nwlink.com [209.20.130.41]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18012; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:52:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Wells X-Sender: jcwells@utah To: Francisco Reyes Cc: Kris Kennaway , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? In-Reply-To: <200006271155.HAA33702@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I am very interested on how this can be done. > The box in question is scheduled to be done this weekend. So > after I backup everything I could experiment with this type of > upgrade before I proceed with a fresh install. A binary upgrade is done by running /stand/sysinstall and finding the upgrade menu. Later, Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 11: 9:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.wetworks.org (shell.wetworks.org [63.160.175.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 89A9437C18A for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:09:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abc@shell.wetworks.org) Received: (qmail 49908 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Jun 2000 18:09:18 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:09:18 -0400 From: Alan Clegg To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: more [was Re: usenix pictures, be afraid] Message-ID: <20000627140918.F47256@shell.wetworks.org> References: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com>; from billf@chc-chimes.com on Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:05:01PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org An SMTP stream claimed that Bill Fumerola muttered: > USENIX pictures hot off the smartcard: s/smartcard/MicroDrive/ http://alan.clegg.com/cgi-bin/USENIX AlanC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 12:19:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98F2937C1F3 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 12:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27836; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:18:59 -0600 To: Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Cc: FreeBSd Chat list In-Reply-To: <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:20 AM 6/27/2000, Brooks Davis wrote: >I think the problem is likely one of perception. One might think that >there is a logical progression of little steps as follows: > >3.0 -> 3.1 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 4.0 > >The problem is that it's actually more like this: > >3.0 -> 3.1 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 3.5 > \ > \ > \ > -------------> 4.0 > >What you have is two diverting streams of development starting the >day the previous .0 release ships[0]. While many changes are merged >back to the previous branch (or sometimes even further[1]), there are >inevtiably things which are simply too major to merge into -STABLE. This is one of the things about the FreeBSD development methodology with which I (and others!) have long taken issue. Since ".0" versions are usually described as "experimental," and often have glitches that make it unwise to deploy them in production environments, the branching should occur later. Instead of creating a new (N+1).0 branch as soon as N.0 ships, one should wait for branch N to achieve full production quality. Thus, (N+1).0 should probably start with the code from version N.2. The result would look like this: 3.0 -> 3.1 -> 3.2 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 3.5 -> ... -> 3.8 \ \ \ ---------------> 4.0 This would ensure that new versions would be built on a firmer foundation and that more effort went into maintaining rock-solid versions of the OS while new branches were perfected. It would also reduce the effort invested in backporting and would shorten the period of time for which a previous version needed to be maintained. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 12:23:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from krell.webweaver.net (krell.webweaver.net [206.24.105.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C8737C1E2 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 12:23:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: from xwin.nmhtech.com (xwin.nmhtech.com [208.138.46.10]) by krell.webweaver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E36F20F04; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Length: 1818 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3.1 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 12:23:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Nicole Harrington." To: Jamie Bowden Subject: Re: usenix pictures, be afraid. Cc: chat@freebsd.org, Bill Fumerola Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 27-Jun-00 Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Bill Fumerola wrote: > >:USENIX pictures hot off the smartcard: > >:http://people.freebsd.org/~billf/usenix2000/ > > http://people.freebsd.org/~billf/usenix2000/DSC00045.JPG.html > > I can enlighten on most of that one. Starting with Ceren it's: > > Ceren, Unknown (to me), Bill Paul, Bill Swingle, The back of Branson > Matheson's head, the back of my head, the side and back of Guido Rooij > (I'm not sure on spelling of that last name, Guido can hit me or something > later if he feels it's necessary), and part of Arjen (who's last name I > don't know.) > > Jamie Bowden > > -- I would like invite everyone to upload their usenix pictures to www.picturetrail.com. We do great thumbnails, layouts etc. I have also setup a login of usenix that can be shared with multiple albums (if everyone promises to play nice) by emailing me for the passwd. Nicole Sysadmin.. PictureTrail 100% FreeBSD and MySQL! > > "Of course, that's sort of like asking how other than Marketing, > Microsoft is different from any other software company..." > Kenneth G. Cavness > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message nicole@unixgirl.com |\ __ /| (`\ http://www.unixgirl.com/ webmistress@dangermouse.org | o_o |__ ) ) http://www.dangermouse.org/ // \\ ---------------------------(((---(((----------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka-Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Strong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- OWNED? MS: Who's Been In/Virused Your Computer Today? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 13:14:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2ED37BB50; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA58690; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? In-Reply-To: <200006271155.HAA33702@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 01:50:27 -0700 (PDT), Kris Kennaway wrote: > > >The simple, painless way to do this is to do a binary upgrade, not a > >source one. > > I am very interested on how this can be done. > The box in question is scheduled to be done this weekend. So > after I backup everything I could experiment with this type of > upgrade before I proceed with a fresh install. Typical upgrade install from sysinstall, using CD or snapshot or whatever binary media. It will spam your /etc, so you'll want to replace your passwd files etc afterwards. Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 18:14:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE38837B784 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:14:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org.) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id A38917CA0286; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:23:21 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:15:18 PDT From: chip To: "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD Reply-To: chip@wiegand.org X-Mailer: Spruce 0.6.5 for X11 w/smtpio 0.7.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200006271823883.SM00093@chip.wiegand.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I bought and am using the Cybermax Netmax Firewall a few months ago, and have been quite happy with it. I don't know how many others are using their packages, but I called them recently about buying their web server package. They have made considerable upgrades to the Linux version, but no upgrades to the FreeBSD versions of any of their packages. I find this very disapointing. I told their people so also. I will probably still buy the package because I believe I am contributing to the cause of FreeBSD becoming bigger. I am not a programmer, so I can't help that way, so I buy the versions I have, the book, etc, figuring somehow that will help FreeBSD in the long run. I guess the point here is I am just a bit disappointed to see a commercial version of FreeBSD software go by the wayside. And if anyone out there uses their software, send them a message expressing your feelings about this. :-( -- Chip www.wiegand.org Alternative Operating Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 19:50:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03DF37B54A; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA35572; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:44:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006280244.WAA35572@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Jason Wells" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" , "Kris Kennaway" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:40:01 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:52:02 -0700 (PDT), Jason Wells wrote: >On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >A binary upgrade is done by running /stand/sysinstall and finding the >upgrade menu. >Jason Since I will backup everything on preparation of a worse case scenario this will surely be nice if it works. If it doesn't.. nothing lost anyway. I had never tried the "update". Are there any instances where this is not recommended? Thanks for the info. Francisco To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 19:51:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F323637B5E6 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@earthlink.net) Received: from dialin-client.earthlink.net (pool0873.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.195.108]) by merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23104; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by dialin-client.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00462; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:49:33 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000627194933.A424@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20000626233850.D302@dialin-client.earthlink.net> <200006271142.HAA33658@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006271142.HAA33658@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 07:38:30AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 07:38:30AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:38:50 -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: > >On Mon, Jun 26, 2000 at 11:49:56PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >> As I considering giving up on upgrading a box from 3.4 Stable to > >> 4.X I wonder why can't upgrades be made more gradual for those > >> of us following stable? > > > >If you want to do it the simplest way, do a binary upgrade (the > >smallest binary distribution only) then do the make-world. > > Are there instructions anywhere on how to do this? > This weekend I am going to start from scratch this particular > troubled box, but in the future this may be something I may be > willing to try. I just installed from scratch to 4.0-STABLE on a box last week. 1) Get 4.0-RELEASE kern.flp and mfsroot.flp. 2) Booted, sliced, and partitioned drive. 3) Installed the minimal binary distribution. 4) Installed CVSup package. 5) Booted fresh system. 6) CVSup'ed 4.x-STABLE. 7) Make custom kernel config. 8) cd /usr/src && make world 9) cd /usr/src/sys/i386/conf && config KERNEL && cd ../../compile/KERNEL && make depend all install 10) CVSup ports. Go nuts installing my "base" ports. Now doing an upgrade, (2), (4), and (10) are not needed. (6) may or may not depending on whether you already grabbed the source. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 20: 0:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB7A37B650 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:00:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA35606; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:54:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006280254.WAA35606@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "chip@wiegand.org" , "FreeBSD Chat" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:49:54 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <200006271823883.SM00093@chip.wiegand.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 18:15:18 PDT, chip wrote: >using their packages, but I called them recently about buying their >web server package. They have made considerable upgrades to the Linux >version, but no upgrades to the FreeBSD versions of any of their >packages. >anyone out there uses their software, send them a message expressing >your feelings about this. I had a feeling they were going that route. I bought the FULL netmax a while back. Even then when FreeBSD was their ONLY shipping product, they were still putting more emphasis on the Linux version. I think writing to them is fine, but the ultimate show of dislike to their actions is to simply not buy their product anymore. Given that they are trying to sell this as a plug in "solution" I don't even see why they had to have a Linux version. If they could come up with a technical reason why they are going Linux I may cut them some slack, but from where I stand it looks like marketting running the show. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 20: 2:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5FF37B752 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:02:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA35617; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:56:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006280256.WAA35617@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "cjclark@alum.mit.edu" , "Crist J. Clark" Cc: "FreeBSd Chat list" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:51:31 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <20000627194933.A424@dialin-client.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:49:33 -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: > 10) CVSup ports. Go nuts installing my "base" ports. If I have my /usr/local saved and all my /etc/ configuration I don't think I will need to re-install the ports. Is this assumption correct? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 20:34: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B09237C065 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:33:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA60650; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:33:41 -0400 (EDT) From: To: Francisco Reyes Cc: "chip@wiegand.org" , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200006280254.WAA35606@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I think writing to them is fine, but the ultimate show of > dislike to their actions is to simply not buy their product > anymore. I agree 100%. > Given that they are trying to sell this as a plug in "solution" > I don't even see why they had to have a Linux version. If they > could come up with a technical reason why they are going Linux I > may cut them some slack, but from where I stand it looks like > marketting running the show. You nailed it right on the head. The last time I called them last year, I was taking to one of their sales/marketing persons. She told me that they were just getting ready to hit a linux trade show. Andwhen I asked if they were dumping the FreeBSD line as I see quite often (companies startup on FreeBSD then jump on the linux bandwagon) she said no, but that they were trying to get in on the linux hype. That right there kind of told me FreeBSD was just an afterthought. So I havent really offered any of my clients a netmax solution becuase if they wont support FreeBSD I wont support them. Which is sad too because I for one really liked to be able to offer clients the netmax solution. They did a fair job on it. *shrug* ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 20:49:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC04537B67D for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:49:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA35788; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:43:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006280343.XAA35788@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "scanner@jurai.net" Cc: "chip@wiegand.org" , "FreeBSD Chat" Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:38:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:33:41 -0400 (EDT), scanner@jurai.net wrote: >support them. Which is sad too because I for one really liked to be able >to offer clients the netmax solution. They did a fair job on it. It was ok for a basic setup, but anything even remotely complex it was too restrictive. Maybe they have improved (after all the feedback me and others sent), but when I used it I always ended up doing things behind the scenes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 21:21:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F341E37C621 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@earthlink.net) Received: from dialin-client.earthlink.net (pool0181.cvx34-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [216.244.6.181]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16460; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by dialin-client.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00871; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:19:37 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000627211937.I424@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20000627194933.A424@dialin-client.earthlink.net> <200006280256.WAA35617@sanson.reyes.somos.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200006280256.WAA35617@sanson.reyes.somos.net>; from fran@reyes.somos.net on Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 10:51:31PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 10:51:31PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:49:33 -0700, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > > 10) CVSup ports. Go nuts installing my "base" ports. > > If I have my /usr/local saved and all my /etc/ configuration I > don't think I will need to re-install the ports. > > Is this assumption correct? For about 99.9% ports I would think so. Just remember to add, COMPAT3x = yes To make.conf. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jun 27 22:34:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2720A37B5AE for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:34:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org.) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id A0913DF5013C; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:43:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:35:43 PDT From: chip To: , Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD Reply-To: chip@wiegand.org X-Mailer: Spruce 0.6.5 for X11 w/smtpio 0.7.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200006272243876.SM00093@chip.wiegand.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, wrote: > Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:33:41 -0400 (EDT) > To: Francisco Reyes > From: > Subject: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD > > On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > I think writing to them is fine, but the ultimate show of > > dislike to their actions is to simply not buy their product > > anymore. > > I agree 100%. I wonder though if not buying is helping the situation any. If everyone who might buy their software decided to not buy it they would definately dump FreeBSD immediately. After all, don't we want to encourage more companys to develope more software for FBSD? I suppose if they come out and say we absolutely will not support FreeBSD at all, then I would agree that not buying it would be the appropriate response to them. But I wonder if there is any hope left with this company supporting FBSD? > > Given that they are trying to sell this as a plug in "solution" > > I don't even see why they had to have a Linux version. If they > > could come up with a technical reason why they are going Linux I > > may cut them some slack, but from where I stand it looks like > > marketting running the show. > > You nailed it right on the head. The last time I called them last > year, I > was taking to one of their sales/marketing persons. She told me > that they > were just getting ready to hit a linux trade show. Andwhen I asked > if they > were dumping the FreeBSD line as I see quite often (companies > startup on > FreeBSD then jump on the linux bandwagon) she said no, but that > they were > trying to get in on the linux hype. That right there kind of told > me > FreeBSD was just an afterthought. So I havent really offered any of > my > clients a netmax solution becuase if they wont support FreeBSD I > wont > support them. Which is sad too because I for one really liked to be > able > to offer clients the netmax solution. They did a fair job on it. > *shrug* > > ============================================================================= > -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD > Geek > Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., > Wellington, Kansas > Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net > ============================================================================= > WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" > LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" > BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" > ============================================================================= > > -- Chip www.wiegand.org Alternative Operating Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 0:54:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1608C37BE89 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 137CeX-000Bic-00; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:52:57 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:52:57 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Brett Glass Cc: Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000628095257.A44982@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 01:18:59PM -0600 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue 2000-06-27 (13:18), Brett Glass wrote: > >3.0 -> 3.1 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 3.5 > > \ > > \ > > \ > > -------------> 4.0 > > > > This is one of the things about the FreeBSD development methodology > with which I (and others!) have long taken issue. Since ".0" versions > are usually described as "experimental," and often have glitches > that make it unwise to deploy them in production environments, the > branching should occur later. Instead of creating a new (N+1).0 branch > as soon as N.0 ships, one should wait for branch N to achieve full > production quality. Thus, (N+1).0 should probably start with the > code from version N.2. The result would look like this: > > 3.0 -> 3.1 -> 3.2 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 3.5 -> ... -> 3.8 > \ > \ > \ > ---------------> 4.0 This would mean no new features in 6 months. Since changes only go into the stable branch from being in the current branch, you can easily say that (N+1).0 contains everything N.x contains. If you wish to contribute to backporting and solidifying the stable branch, your patches to the current branch, to subsequently be applied to the stable branch, are eagerly awaited. (this is the generic 'you') Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 3:38:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from morpheus.skynet.be (morpheus.skynet.be [195.238.2.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C64D37B566 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 03:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup1721.brussels.skynet.be [194.78.234.185]) by morpheus.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id BADBEDAE8; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:37:58 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200006272243876.SM00093@chip.wiegand.org> References: <200006272243876.SM00093@chip.wiegand.org> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:14:19 +0200 To: chip@wiegand.org, , Francisco Reyes From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD Cc: FreeBSD Chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:35 PM -0700 2000/6/27, chip wrote: > I wonder though if not buying is helping the situation any. You need to combine "not buying" with "telling them about it". In other words, every time you buy a product from a competing company, you send them a note telling them why they didn't win, or weren't even considered. If enough people do it, they might recognize the error of their ways. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 6:26:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pioneernet.net (pop3.pioneernet.net [208.240.196.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1948637B723 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 06:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chip@wiegand.org.) Received: from chip.wiegand.org [208.194.173.26] by pioneernet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.03) id AF4697BD00E0; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 06:36:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 06:28:09 PDT From: chip To: Brad Knowles , , Francisco Reyes Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Re: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD Reply-To: chip@wiegand.org X-Mailer: Spruce 0.6.5 for X11 w/smtpio 0.7.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200006280636528.SM00093@chip.wiegand.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Okay, that sounds better, I sent them an email regarding my feelings about this, I'll report back what their response is when I get one. So far they respond within a day or two to every email I have sent. Chip On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Brad Knowles wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:14:19 +0200 > To: chip@wiegand.org, , > Francisco Reyes > From: Brad Knowles > Subject: Re: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD > > At 10:35 PM -0700 2000/6/27, chip wrote: > > > I wonder though if not buying is helping the situation any. > > You need to combine "not buying" with "telling them about > it". > In other words, every time you buy a product from a competing > company, you send them a note telling them why they didn't > win, or > weren't even considered. If enough people do it, they might > recognize the error of their ways. > > -- > These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet > policy > ====================================================================== > Brad Knowles, || Belgacom > Skynet SA/NV > Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel > Bourg, 124 > Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 > Brussels > http://www.skynet.be || Belgium > -- Chip www.wiegand.org Alternative Operating Systems To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 10:34:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795FC37B54F for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:34:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09070; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:32:40 -0600 To: Neil Blakey-Milner From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Cc: Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list In-Reply-To: <20000628095257.A44982@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:52 AM 6/28/2000, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: >> 3.0 -> 3.1 -> 3.2 -> ... -> 3.4 -> 3.5 -> ... -> 3.8 >> \ >> \ >> \ >> ---------------> 4.0 > >This would mean no new features in 6 months. Not necessarily. > Since changes only go into >the stable branch from being in the current branch, you can easily say >that (N+1).0 contains everything N.x contains. Changes can still be tested on the way to developing (N+1).0. >If you wish to contribute to backporting and solidifying the stable >branch... The problem with the current system is that so much of the development of the "stable" branch, from the .0 release on, is "backporting." It shouldn't be. The "stable" branch should be the focus of at least as much attention as the next "experimental" release. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 12: 1:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from osiris.ipform.ru (osiris.ipform.ru [212.158.165.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5112D37BB1D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matrix@ipform.ru) Received: from wp2 ([192.168.0.12]) by osiris.ipform.ru with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 137N4c-0001u6-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:00:34 +0400 Message-ID: <000f01bfe132$d04a2e00$0c00a8c0@ipform.ru> From: "Artem Koutchine" To: Subject: BISON & flex Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:58:12 +0400 Organization: IP Form MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! I have a need to create my own BASIC-like language for html templates (an embedded language that is) which must be interpreted into perl. Here is what it look like: Hello world! ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:50:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from bone.nectar.com (bone.nectar.com [10.0.1.105]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFC59B3B; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:50:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bone.nectar.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B1E101DCB; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:49:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:49:45 -0500 From: "Jacques A . Vidrine" To: Artem Koutchine Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BISON & flex Message-ID: <20000628144945.B3704@bone.nectar.com> References: <000f01bfe132$d04a2e00$0c00a8c0@ipform.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <000f01bfe132$d04a2e00$0c00a8c0@ipform.ru>; from matrix@ipform.ru on Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 10:58:12PM +0400 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 10:58:12PM +0400, Artem Koutchine wrote: > Can anybodt tell me will FLEX+BISON be the right tools for this kind of > task? Sure, that's the kind of thing they live for. :-) Although I wonder why you want to do this (translate FakeBasic -> Perl). If you are trying to make something useable for some users who might grok something like BASIC but can't grok Perl, you may want to try another route such as Zope. > Are there any good tutorials for bison and flex, cause, maybe i am > stupid and lazy, but i cannot really do anything usefull after reading > the bison docs. See: http://epaperpress.com/y_man.html Consider purchasing: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lex/ Finally, I've no experience with it, but some people like ANTLR/PCCTS as an alternative to lex/yacc: http://www.antlr.org -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 16:11:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FEC337BA1A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:11:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA54020; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:11:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ken) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:11:04 -0600 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Jamie Bowden , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: usenix pictures, be afraid. Message-ID: <20000628171104.A53970@panzer.kdm.org> References: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> <20000627100552.K18942@jade.chc-chimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000627100552.K18942@jade.chc-chimes.com>; from billf@chimesnet.com on Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 10:05:52AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 10:05:52 -0400, Bill Fumerola wrote: > On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 06:57:33AM -0700, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > > I can enlighten on most of that one. Starting with Ceren it's: > > > > Ceren, Unknown (to me), Bill Paul, Bill Swingle, The back of Branson > > Matheson's head, the back of my head, the side and back of Guido Rooij > > (I'm not sure on spelling of that last name, Guido can hit me or something > > later if he feels it's necessary), and part of Arjen (who's last name I > > don't know.) > > The guy with the hawaiian shirt sitting between Ceren and Bill Paul > is Jim Mock. > > Behind Bill Paul is Paul Saab, to the left of him is Ken Merry, to > the left of him is unknown. That would be Todd Miller, from OpenBSD. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 20: 6:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D0B37BADE for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:06:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 260DB1C65; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:06:12 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: Jamie Bowden , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: usenix pictures, be afraid. Message-ID: <20000628230612.G18942@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> <20000627100552.K18942@jade.chc-chimes.com> <20000628171104.A53970@panzer.kdm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000628171104.A53970@panzer.kdm.org>; from ken@kdm.org on Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 05:11:04PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 05:11:04PM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > > Behind Bill Paul is Paul Saab, to the left of him is Ken Merry, to > > the left of him is unknown. > > That would be Todd Miller, from OpenBSD. Foo. I knew that too.. fixed. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect / Computer Horizons Corp - CHIMES e-mail: billf@chimesnet.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jun 28 21:55: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B70A37C25C for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:55:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@earthlink.net) Received: from dialin-client.earthlink.net (pool0906.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.253.141]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12345; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by dialin-client.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00577; Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:51:42 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Brett Glass Cc: Neil Blakey-Milner , Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000628215142.C451@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <20000628095257.A44982@mithrandr.moria.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 11:32:40AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 11:32:40AM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: [snip] > The problem with the current system is that so much of the development > of the "stable" branch, from the .0 release on, is "backporting." It > shouldn't be. The "stable" branch should be the focus of at least as > much attention as the next "experimental" release. You are one of the proponents of keeping STABLE as "stable" as possible. We all have heard several times that you never start using a new release until x.2. Now, you want the active development done on this stable branch? It seems that you want to have your cake and eat it too (to use a cliche that never made much sense to me). -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 1:15:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD3F37B6D1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 01:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16906; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 02:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000629021220.04f8ae40@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 02:14:23 -0600 To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Cc: Neil Blakey-Milner , Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list In-Reply-To: <20000628215142.C451@dialin-client.earthlink.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <20000628095257.A44982@mithrandr.moria.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:51 PM 6/28/2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: >You are one of the proponents of keeping STABLE as "stable" as >possible. We all have heard several times that you never start using a >new release until x.2. Now, you want the active development done on >this stable branch? It seems that you want to have your cake and eat >it too (to use a cliche that never made much sense to me). There should be more active POLISHING on the stable branch before each divergence. From .0 to about .2. (Heck, if this were done, it might well be that .1 was really solid enough for production work.) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 1:28:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6638637BBAE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 01:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 137Zey-000GIK-00; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:26:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:26:56 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Brett Glass Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Message-ID: <20000629102655.A62528@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <20000628095257.A44982@mithrandr.moria.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> <20000628215142.C451@dialin-client.earthlink.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20000629021220.04f8ae40@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000629021220.04f8ae40@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 02:14:23AM -0600 Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu 2000-06-29 (02:14), Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:51 PM 6/28/2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > >You are one of the proponents of keeping STABLE as "stable" as > >possible. We all have heard several times that you never start using a > >new release until x.2. Now, you want the active development done on > >this stable branch? It seems that you want to have your cake and eat > >it too (to use a cliche that never made much sense to me). > > There should be more active POLISHING on the stable branch before each > divergence. From .0 to about .2. (Heck, if this were done, it might > well be that .1 was really solid enough for production work.) What sort of things are you talking about? Almost all changes should go through -CURRENT before being applied, but there can certainly be exceptions for well-tested, verified, script(1)'d make release'd code. Again, you know where to send your patches. You can't mandate that committers perform this polishing (or anything really) for you. However, if a committer wishes to polish, I doubt anyone would object if it was done in a consistent manner with sufficient testing and review. (I'd recommend a multiprocessor machine with lots of memory, running constant make -j16 releases) Really, give some examples of cases where things can't be done via -CURRENT, and you'll get more response. Describing a possible flaw in the system where there has never been any requests in that area doesn't indicate a flaw, but rather that noone is requesting things in that area. When reasonable, competent, and reviewed requests _do_ come in, and aren't answered, then I'd encourage you to bring this up again. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner Sunesi Clinical Systems nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 3:25:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.skynet.be (trinity.skynet.be [195.238.2.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A45E37BE40 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 03:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.1.121] (brad.techos.skynet.be [195.238.1.121]) by trinity.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9A11838C; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:24:37 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:19:27 +0200 To: Brett Glass , Neil Blakey-Milner From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Cc: Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:32 AM -0600 2000/6/28, Brett Glass wrote: > The problem with the current system is that so much of the development > of the "stable" branch, from the .0 release on, is "backporting." It > shouldn't be. The "stable" branch should be the focus of at least as > much attention as the next "experimental" release. I've been thinking more and more lately that FreeBSD needs a three-branch model -- a "-DEVEL" branch where major architectural changes are made (such as the upcoming SMP work), a "-CURRENT" branch where most of the real development is done for both kernel and userland (so long as it doesn't require major architectural changes, such as the /dev/random stuff), and a "-STABLE" where things get moved once they have proven themselves in "-CURRENT" and are safe to be moved down. Alternatively, perhaps a four-branch model would work even better -- splitting the "-CURRENT" branch between kernel work and userland, so that the latter might actually be reasonably useful for semi-production use at some sites. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 10:13:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5068537B6E0 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:13:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id VAA10536; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:15:53 +0200 Message-ID: <395B83B7.F4BBD2FB@i-clue.de> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:13:27 +0200 From: Christoph Sold Reply-To: so@server.i-clue.de Organization: i-clue interactive GmbH X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stupid linux picture question... References: <20000629173440.C15054@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [redirected to chat@freebsd.org] j mckitrick wrote: > > hey guys, i found it. sorry about posting here, it should have been in > chat. Hey, and where's the link? curiously yours -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 10:14:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD74237B6E0 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 137htM-000LXj-00; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:14:20 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16234; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:14:19 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:14:19 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Christoph Sold Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: stupid linux picture question... Message-ID: <20000629181419.A16181@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000629173440.C15054@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <395B83B7.F4BBD2FB@i-clue.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <395B83B7.F4BBD2FB@i-clue.de>; from so@server.i-clue.de on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:13:27PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org www.stileproject.com/linuxchick.jpg jm -- ------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org Do not mistake lack of talent for genius ------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 10:34:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE0337BFBF; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:34:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 137iDA-000Loj-00; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:34:48 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16588; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:34:48 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:34:48 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: questions@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stupid linux picture question... Message-ID: <20000629183448.E16181@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000629173440.C15054@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <00bf01bfe1e8$3be3a460$f5f055ce@rapidnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <00bf01bfe1e8$3be3a460$f5f055ce@rapidnet.com>; from pstapley@rapidnet.com on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 10:36:54AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org since my post, i have been bombarded for requests for the link. this is my last post to the mailing list on this subject (private mail will be responded to, of course ;) the linux chick picture can be found at: www.stileproject.com/linuxchick.jpg jm -- ------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org Do not mistake lack of talent for genius ------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 11:18:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B07C37BC29; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 137isS-000FNG-00; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:17:28 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17264; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:17:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:17:27 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: chat@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: correct pic URL Message-ID: <20000629191727.G16181@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org www.stileproject.com/pic/linuxchick2.jpg jm -- ------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org Do not mistake lack of talent for genius ------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 11:34:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B981437C1FC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:34:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 137j8m-000MYU-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:34:20 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17877 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:34:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:34:19 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't put my finger on it... jm -- --------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org Break free of The Matrix. Switch to FreeBSD. --------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 11:39: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5481137C077; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:38:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 137jCi-000Mbv-00; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:38:24 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17973; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:38:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:38:23 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Fernando Almeida Cc: "'questions@freebsd.org '" , "'chat@freebsd.org '" Subject: Re: stupid linux picture question... Message-ID: <20000629193823.E17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <70DA17B25830D411AD6500508B11CB4B0B10A3@prima-exc01.cidadei.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <70DA17B25830D411AD6500508B11CB4B0B10A3@prima-exc01.cidadei.com.br>; from falmeida@cidadei.com.br on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 03:33:05PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 03:33:05PM -0300, Fernando Almeida wrote: > > > www.stileproject.com/linux_chick.jpg is the correct. LAST POST TO LIST ON THIS SUBJECT... www.stileproject.com/pic/linuxchick2.jpg is the correct one To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 11:43:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cornflake.nickelkid.com (cornflake.nickelkid.com [216.116.135.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D7637B9AE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:43:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@cornflake.nickelkid.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by cornflake.nickelkid.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02095; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:42:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jooji@cornflake.nickelkid.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:42:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: correct pic URL In-Reply-To: <20000629191727.G16181@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, j mckitrick wrote: > www.stileproject.com/pic/linuxchick2.jpg Closer to home, even: http://student.vub.ac.be/~bbruneel/pictureopenBSD.html Cheers, Mick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 12:18:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.wetworks.org (shell.wetworks.org [63.160.175.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2990E37B88E for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:18:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abc@shell.wetworks.org) Received: (qmail 94311 invoked by uid 1000); 29 Jun 2000 19:18:44 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:18:44 -0400 From: Alan Clegg To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: correct pic URL Message-ID: <20000629151843.P66253@shell.wetworks.org> References: <20000629191727.G16181@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from jooji@nickelkid.com on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 02:42:22PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org An SMTP stream claimed that Jasper O'Malley muttered: > On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, j mckitrick wrote: > > > www.stileproject.com/pic/linuxchick2.jpg > > Closer to home, even: > > http://student.vub.ac.be/~bbruneel/pictureopenBSD.html Gee, she sure does get around, eh? AlanC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 12:38:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CFD37BFBC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.85.234]) by mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000629193813.CTPW381.mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:38:13 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01216; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:38:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:38:16 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000629203816.A233@parish> References: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't > put my finger on it... > URL? > jm > -- > --------------------------------------------- > Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org > Break free of The Matrix. Switch to FreeBSD. > --------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 12:43:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt052n3e.san.rr.com (dt052n3e.san.rr.com [204.210.33.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C0737C03E for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt052n3e.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09503; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt052n3e.san.rr.com To: Alan Clegg Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: correct pic URL In-Reply-To: <20000629151843.P66253@shell.wetworks.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Alan Clegg wrote: > An SMTP stream claimed that Jasper O'Malley muttered: > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, j mckitrick wrote: > > > > > www.stileproject.com/pic/linuxchick2.jpg > > > > Closer to home, even: > > > > http://student.vub.ac.be/~bbruneel/pictureopenBSD.html > > Gee, she sure does get around, eh? I like that in a girl... -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 12:46: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28D337C03E for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:45:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 137kG1-000Ni9-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:45:53 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19042; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:45:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:45:52 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000629204552.B19000@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000629203816.A233@parish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000629203816.A233@parish>; from mark@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 08:38:16PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 08:38:16PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > > > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new > > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't > > put my finger on it... > > > > URL? not sure. it was on the yahoo news portal. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 12:52:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay2.inwind.it (relay2.inwind.it [212.141.53.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5AD37B6CC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bartequi@inwind.it) Received: from bartequi.ottodomain.org (212.141.78.251) by relay2.inwind.it; 29 Jun 2000 21:52:08 +0200 From: Salvo Bartolotta Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:54:15 GMT Message-ID: <20000629.20541500@bartequi.ottodomain.org> Subject: Re: Why? To: Doug Barton Cc: howardjp@glue.umd.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in In-Reply-To: <395B8135.130E4B42@gorean.org> References: <395B8135.130E4B42@gorean.org> X-Mailer: SuperCalifragilis X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 6/29/00, 6:02:45 PM, Doug Barton wrote regarding=20 Re: Why?: > James Howard wrote: > > > > On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Salvo Bartolotta wrote: > > > > > The people to whom you are referring once used to believe that the= Sun > > > rotated around the Earth, the latter being fixed at the center/re = of > > > the universe; in those days, if you did not agree, you ran the ris= k of > > > being burned alive at the stake ... > > > > So you are advocating buring Linux users at the stake? If you=20 insist... > You know, some of us work very hard to convince new users that=20 they > won't get savaged when they post to -questions. If you absolutely=20 can't > live with yourself if you don't demonstrate how clever you are by > denigrating another person, at least move it to -chat where the new=20 user > is less likely to see it. > Thanks, > Doug [ redirected to -chat ] Dear Doug Barton, thank you very much for writing. I am afraid Mr Howard has completely missed the point.=20 Evidently, I was ironically referring to those who still (!) have=20 serious problems with "daemons"; an amusing episode relating to such=20 persons is also found in "The Complete FreeBSD".=20 Incidentally, it may not be the case for the original poster --=20 despite his message, and despite what a number of people may have=20 thought, too.=20 I have recently written a relatively long letter to -doc, pointing out=20 the semantic evolution (and spectrum) of the Greek word "daimon" (from=20 Homer to the New Testament; "daiomai" & "daimon", etc.); to which=20 letter, as may have been noticed, I referred the original poster. =20 On the other hand, there could not have been **any** reference to=20 Linux (or other Unix[es]) people: they are supposed to be familiar=20 with daemons and the like, and they are supposed to know where the=20 word comes from. Essentially, Mr Howard's problem seems to be "hermeneutic[al]" (from=20 Greek "hermeneuo" ~ "I interpret"); his manners, at any rate, speak=20 for themselves. Finally, as you probably know from my previous posts to the forum(s),=20 I have been running a number of OSes including Linux: a fortiori, I=20 could not have made **similar** comments on Linux people. =20 Best regards, Salvo To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 13: 4:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from po4.glue.umd.edu (po4.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5A637B62E for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:04:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@glue.umd.edu) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (root@y.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.68]) by po4.glue.umd.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e5TK4dL10786; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA11515; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11511; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:04:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: y.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:04:38 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: Salvo Bartolotta Cc: Doug Barton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in Subject: Re: Why? In-Reply-To: <20000629.20541500@bartequi.ottodomain.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Salvo Bartolotta wrote: > I am afraid Mr Howard has completely missed the point. It was sarcasm. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 13: 8: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt052n3e.san.rr.com (dt052n3e.san.rr.com [204.210.33.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F1937C0EC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:08:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt052n3e.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09812; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:07:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:07:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt052n3e.san.rr.com To: James Howard Cc: Salvo Bartolotta , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in Subject: Re: Why? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, James Howard wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Salvo Bartolotta wrote: > > > I am afraid Mr Howard has completely missed the point. > > It was sarcasm. Which is fine if you're posting it in a place where it's appropriate to show off your wit. We want all users to feel comfortable posting to -questions without fear that they will be made fun of (directly, or indirectly). My only point was that your post (and the others) didn't really add to that environment. Thanks, Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 13: 9:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DEB8237C0E8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 3682 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2000 20:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 29 Jun 2000 20:09:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 4423 invoked by uid 211); 29 Jun 2000 20:09:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 01:39:01 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: James Howard Cc: Salvo Bartolotta , Doug Barton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why? Message-ID: <20000630013901.I4197@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: James Howard , Salvo Bartolotta , Doug Barton , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20000629.20541500@bartequi.ottodomain.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from howardjp@glue.umd.edu on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 04:04:38PM -0400 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org James Howard said on Jun 29, 2000 at 16:04:38: > On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Salvo Bartolotta wrote: > > > I am afraid Mr Howard has completely missed the point. > > It was sarcasm. For the record: I don't think what I wrote had any reference (intentional or otherwise) to linux in it (Salvo has said the same about his reply), and I absolutely didn't see any point -- or any conceivable target of sarcasm -- in your linux reference. Rahul. (ps - and I use linux too.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 13:14:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.inwind.it (relay1.inwind.it [212.141.53.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A655237B789 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bartequi@inwind.it) Received: from bartequi.ottodomain.org (212.141.78.251) by relay1.inwind.it; 29 Jun 2000 22:14:33 +0200 From: Salvo Bartolotta Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:16:39 GMT Message-ID: <20000629.21163900@bartequi.ottodomain.org> Subject: Re: why To: howardjp@glue.umd.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: SuperCalifragilis X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Salvo Bartolotta wrote: >> I am afraid Mr Howard has completely missed the point.=20 >It was sarcasm. Dear Mr Howard, you seem to have made use of your wits against the wrong person for=20 the wrong cause. Sincerely, Salvo Bartolotta To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 14:34: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9872137B730 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:34:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.3/frmug-2.7/nospam) with UUCP id XAA23426 for chat@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 23:33:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id BDB788880; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:29:05 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: usenix pictures, be afraid. Message-ID: <20000629212905.A72795@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.org References: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from ragnar@sysabend.org on Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 06:57:33AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT/ELF AMD-K6/200 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Jamie Bowden: > Matheson's head, the back of my head, the side and back of Guido Rooij Guido van Rooij > (I'm not sure on spelling of that last name, Guido can hit me or something > later if he feels it's necessary), and part of Arjen (who's last name I Arjan de Vet -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 14:52:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48CA437B7A3 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.91.69]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000629215224.WYZR290.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 22:52:24 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01216; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:38:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:38:16 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000629203816.A233@parish> References: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't > put my finger on it... > URL? > jm > -- > --------------------------------------------- > Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org > Break free of The Matrix. Switch to FreeBSD. > --------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 15:16:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84237C1D3 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23997; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:15:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000629161214.04ba14a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:15:04 -0600 To: Neil Blakey-Milner From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list In-Reply-To: <20000629102655.A62528@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000629021220.04f8ae40@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <20000628095257.A44982@mithrandr.moria.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> <20000628215142.C451@dialin-client.earthlink.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20000629021220.04f8ae40@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:26 AM 6/29/2000, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: >What sort of things are you talking about? Almost all changes should go >through -CURRENT before being applied, but there can certainly be >exceptions for well-tested, verified, script(1)'d make release'd code. One of the problems with the way things are done now is that patches often CAN'T go through -current. For example, the modifications to the TCP/IP stack to harden the system against DoS attacks were totally different on 4.0 than on 3.x. 4.0 got priority, because it was the "latest and greatest," even though it was NOT EVEN AT 4.0-RELEASE yet. I think you'll agree that it should not have been a higher priority than -STABLE. How would you avoid this? >Really, give some examples of cases where things can't be done via >-CURRENT, and you'll get more response. See above. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 15:19:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0178437C199 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:19:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24033; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:18:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000629161533.04b7b100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:17:59 -0600 To: Brad Knowles , Neil Blakey-Milner From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Why can't upgrades be simpler? Cc: Brooks Davis , Francisco Reyes , FreeBSd Chat list In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <200006270352.XAA29208@sanson.reyes.somos.net> <20000626232045.A17065@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20000627131107.0449d500@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20000628112835.00de8710@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:19 AM 6/29/2000, Brad Knowles wrote: > I've been thinking more and more lately that FreeBSD needs a three-branch model -- a "-DEVEL" branch where major architectural changes are made (such as the upcoming SMP work), a "-CURRENT" branch where most of the real development is done for both kernel and userland (so long as it doesn't require major architectural changes, such as the /dev/random stuff), and a "-STABLE" where things get moved once they have proven themselves in "-CURRENT" and are safe to be moved down. That was sort of what existed just recently, until 3.5-RELEASE. But unfortunately, what happened was that 3.4-STABLE got almost no attention. All of the developers were focused on 4.0 and 5.0. How does one deal with the problem of developers all wanting to swarm toward the bleeding edge? Perhaps there should be paid maintenance of the older branches, covered by CD sales? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 16:15:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wopr.caltech.edu (wopr.caltech.edu [131.215.102.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F0C37B610 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:15:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@wopr.caltech.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by wopr.caltech.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA70601; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:15:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:15:33 -0700 From: Matthew Hunt To: Alan Clegg Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: more [was Re: usenix pictures, be afraid] Message-ID: <20000629161533.B70486@wopr.caltech.edu> References: <20000626230501.U5255@jade.chc-chimes.com> <20000627140918.F47256@shell.wetworks.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000627140918.F47256@shell.wetworks.org>; from abc@shell.wetworks.org on Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:09:18PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 02:09:18PM -0400, Alan Clegg wrote: > An SMTP stream claimed that Bill Fumerola muttered: > > > USENIX pictures hot off the smartcard: > > s/smartcard/MicroDrive/ s/MicroDrive/film/ http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=27900 -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/ * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 18:46:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cornflake.nickelkid.com (cornflake.nickelkid.com [216.116.135.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996E037C2C4 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:46:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@cornflake.nickelkid.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by cornflake.nickelkid.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04832; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:45:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jooji@cornflake.nickelkid.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:45:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: Mark Ovens Cc: j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-Reply-To: <20000629203816.A233@parish> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Mark Ovens wrote: > On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > > > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new > > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't > > put my finger on it... > > URL? FWIW, it's an enormous IBM SP system, composed of 512 16-way SMP RS/6000's running in parallel, interconnected with a propietary high-speed network switch. Cheers, Mick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 18:48:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vulcan.addy.com (vulcan.addy.com [208.11.142.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F58737C31C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:48:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by vulcan.addy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA10606; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:47:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200006300147.VAA10606@vulcan.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "chip@wiegand.org" , "scanner@jurai.net" Cc: "mtaylor@netmax.com" , "mtaylor@cybernet.com" , "FreeBSD Chat" Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:46:45 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <200006272243876.SM00093@chip.wiegand.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Re: Cybermax no longer developing for FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 22:35:43 PDT, chip wrote: >I wonder though if not buying is helping the situation any. If >everyone who might buy their software decided to not buy it they >would definately dump FreeBSD When I first used Netmax FreeBSD I was impressed with the support and attitude of the technical support department. They, however, are not the ones to decide what happens of the product. In the early days of Netmax where there was only a FreeBSD version, they were working on getting a Linux version out and it seemed most of their resources were working on the Linux version. After the Linux version was out those resources dedicated to Linux did not seem to work much on FreeBSD. AT least that was the way it seemed from where I was standing. >more software for FBSD? I suppose if they come out and say we >absolutely will not support FreeBSD at all, then I would agree that not buying it would >be the appropriate response to them. I disagree. If they still have a FreeBSD version and it is not been maintained and promoted at the same level as Linux then it would be foolish of you to put a dime on cybernet's bank accounts. If you care about the functionality that these products offer then you may as well buy the Linux version. It is also my opinion that going with Linux was a marketting decision and not a technical one. Netmax is marketted as a solution for those who need specific functionality and either want to setup/maintain that functionality quickly/cheaply or for those companies that don't have the knowledge to do it themselves. Either way to both of those clients it will make no difference whether the back end is Linux or FreeBSD. Cybernet simply must have done a business decision based on which product can give them more exposure and increase revenues. This at the moment and for the foreseable future happens to be Linux. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jun 29 20:26:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.nc.rr.com (fe3.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8783037B5DD for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@nc.rr.com) Received: from rdu25-17-233.nc.rr.com ([24.25.17.233]) by mail3.nc.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Thu, 29 Jun 2000 23:25:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 23:23:34 -0400 From: Neill Robins X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.42f) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Neill Robins X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> To: "Jasper O'Malley" Cc: Mark Ovens , j mckitrick , Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello Jasper, Thursday, June 29, 2000, 9:45:00 PM, you wrote: JOM> On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Mark Ovens wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: >> > >> > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new >> > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't >> > put my finger on it... >> >> URL? JOM> FWIW, it's an enormous IBM SP system, composed of 512 16-way SMP RS/6000's JOM> running in parallel, interconnected with a propietary high-speed network JOM> switch. JOM> Cheers, JOM> Mick http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp -- Best regards, Neill freebsd@nc.rr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 1: 9:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt052n3e.san.rr.com (dt052n3e.san.rr.com [204.210.33.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8396B37B60C for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 01:09:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt052n3e.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15144; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 01:07:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Message-ID: <395C5552.2ECCE94F@gorean.org> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 01:07:46 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0629 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Neill Robins Cc: "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer References: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Neill Robins wrote: > > Hello Jasper, > Thursday, June 29, 2000, 9:45:00 PM, you wrote: > JOM> On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >> On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > >> > > >> > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new > >> > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't > >> > put my finger on it... Well, the obvious joke is that they've finally found a system that brings windows performance up to the level of DOS' best platform/performance level, the IBM AT running DOS 2.2. Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 2: 7:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3819B37C3A9 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 02:07:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 13292 invoked by uid 211); 30 Jun 2000 09:07:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:37:16 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Neill Robins Cc: Jasper O'Malley , Mark Ovens , j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630143716.A13271@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com>; from freebsd@nc.rr.com on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:23:34PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Neill Robins said on Jun 29, 2000 at 23:23:34: > Hello Jasper, > Thursday, June 29, 2000, 9:45:00 PM, you wrote: > JOM> On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >> On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > >> > > >> > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new > >> > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't > >> > put my finger on it... > >> > >> URL? > > JOM> FWIW, it's an enormous IBM SP system, composed of 512 16-way SMP RS/6000's > JOM> running in parallel, interconnected with a propietary high-speed network > JOM> switch. > > JOM> Cheers, > JOM> Mick > > http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp (a) Where does it say it's running Windows? The only mentions of Microsoft or Windows I could find were at the bottom, "this page optimized for..." (b) Since when did windows run on an RS/6000? Something wrong here. -R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 4: 0:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB5B37B85E for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 137yXG-0008CS-00; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:00:38 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29986; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:00:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:00:37 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Neill Robins , "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630120036.A29936@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> <20000630143716.A13271@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000630143716.A13271@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:37:16PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:37:16PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp > > (a) Where does it say it's running Windows? The only mentions of > Microsoft or Windows I could find were at the bottom, "this page > optimized for..." > (b) Since when did windows run on an RS/6000? > > Something wrong here. this was obviously a HUGE tongue-in-cheek remark. i'm sure it actually runs either unix or some proprietary OS. jm -- --------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org Break free of The Matrix. Switch to FreeBSD. --------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 6:13:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bne003m.webcentral.com.au (horizon3.webcentral.com.au [202.139.235.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E389D37B786 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:13:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 9046 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2000 13:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO timberwolf) (203.147.163.73) by horizon3.webcentral.com.au with SMTP; 30 Jun 2000 13:13:27 -0000 Message-ID: <007e01bfe325$45a687e0$49a393cb@timberwolf> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: "j mckitrick" , "Rahul Siddharthan" Cc: "Neill Robins" , "Jasper O'Malley" , "Mark Ovens" , References: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> <20000630143716.A13271@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000630120036.A29936@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:26:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:37:16PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp > > > > (a) Where does it say it's running Windows? The only mentions of > > Microsoft or Windows I could find were at the bottom, "this page > > optimized for..." > > (b) Since when did windows run on an RS/6000? > > > > Something wrong here. > > this was obviously a HUGE tongue-in-cheek remark. i'm sure it > actually runs either unix or some proprietary OS. OS/2 perhaps? Wasn't win95 'born' from OS/2? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBOV2PCGDp/0spTtEtEQJsugCg3vgO5ADBIkqZVjawz817u37sGnkAnjfl sNRPNOZYawwobtfJFZn1KOu8 =p4/o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 6:24:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [209.98.143.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E8937B79C for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:24:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: by gw.nectar.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 800A79B36; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:24:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:24:08 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Haikal Saadh Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630082408.C90316@spawn.nectar.com> References: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> <20000630143716.A13271@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000630120036.A29936@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <007e01bfe325$45a687e0$49a393cb@timberwolf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <007e01bfe325$45a687e0$49a393cb@timberwolf>; from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:26:18PM -0700 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 11:26:18PM -0700, Haikal Saadh wrote: > OS/2 perhaps? AIX. > Wasn't win95 'born' from OS/2? Uh, no. -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 7:19:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [209.0.55.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7703137B738 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A32BF75C9; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9E01DA7; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-Reply-To: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, j mckitrick wrote: :there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new supercomputer running :windows. i can feel it, i just can't put my finger on it... Why would you need to do anything to it to make it a joke? Jamie Bowden -- "Of course, that's sort of like asking how other than Marketing, Microsoft is different from any other software company..." Kenneth G. Cavness To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 7:43:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.wetworks.org (shell.wetworks.org [63.160.175.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 17BBD37B6B4 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:43:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abc@shell.wetworks.org) Received: (qmail 8595 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Jun 2000 14:43:45 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:43:45 -0400 From: Alan Clegg To: Stephen Hovey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Offensive figures (wa: Why?) Message-ID: <20000630104345.B8409@shell.wetworks.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from shovey@buffnet.net on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 10:34:53AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] An SMTP stream claimed that Stephen Hovey muttered: > Oh I have an admin that just WONT chown a file or dir 666 - he does 777 or > 444... I think it runs along the same lines as a co worker years ago, > when she lambasted me over the fact that I had purchased a real christmas > tree - something about my contributing to the tear down of the rain > forests I think.. Ah, the chmod 'problem' is easily workable: chmod a=rw filename So, there we go, a workaround. I guess the "right" thing to do would be to disable the numeric mode. B-) AlanC {having just sent his 5 yr old to daycare wearing "Daemon Horns"} http://alan.clegg.com/cgi-bin/USENIX?06210023.jpg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 8:55:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2105A37BF80 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:55:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e5UFtA992016; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:55:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: Haikal Saadh Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-Reply-To: <007e01bfe325$45a687e0$49a393cb@timberwolf> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Haikal Saadh wrote: > OS/2 perhaps? Wasn't win95 'born' from OS/2? s/95/NT/ Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 10:32:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CBC37B76D for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:32:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.87.25]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000630173224.CUEI290.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:32:24 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00894; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:32:18 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:32:18 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630183218.A232@parish> References: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new supercomputer running > windows. i can feel it, i just can't put my finger on it... > Got it! Microsoft unveils the machine that they will use to replace FreeBSD with Windows 2000 at hotmail.com > jm > -- > --------------------------------------------- > Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org > Break free of The Matrix. Switch to FreeBSD. > --------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 10:35:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D271A37BA36 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:35:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.87.25]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000630173546.CVBJ290.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:35:46 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00922; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:35:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:35:40 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Alan Clegg Cc: Stephen Hovey , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Offensive figures (wa: Why?) Message-ID: <20000630183540.B232@parish> References: <20000630104345.B8409@shell.wetworks.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000630104345.B8409@shell.wetworks.org>; from abc@shell.wetworks.org on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 10:43:45AM -0400 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 10:43:45AM -0400, Alan Clegg wrote: > [moved to -chat] > > An SMTP stream claimed that Stephen Hovey muttered: > > > Oh I have an admin that just WONT chown a file or dir 666 - he does 777 or I read somewhere that Intel badged a PIII as 667MHz for the same reason. there really are some sad puppies in the world. > > 444... I think it runs along the same lines as a co worker years ago, > > when she lambasted me over the fact that I had purchased a real christmas > > tree - something about my contributing to the tear down of the rain > > forests I think.. > > Ah, the chmod 'problem' is easily workable: > > chmod a=rw filename > > So, there we go, a workaround. I guess the "right" thing to do would be > to disable the numeric mode. B-) > > AlanC {having just sent his 5 yr old to daycare wearing "Daemon Horns"} > http://alan.clegg.com/cgi-bin/USENIX?06210023.jpg > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 10:37:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605E937BA36 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:37:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 1384it-000C3t-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:37:03 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA35631; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:37:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:37:02 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Mark Ovens Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630183702.H33955@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000630183218.A232@parish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000630183218.A232@parish>; from mark@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 06:32:18PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 06:32:18PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > > > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new supercomputer running > > windows. i can feel it, i just can't put my finger on it... > > > > Got it! > > Microsoft unveils the machine that they will use to > replace FreeBSD with Windows 2000 at hotmail.com Well done ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 10:39:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94C537BFFC for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:39:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.87.25]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000630173936.CVVV290.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:39:36 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01005; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:39:21 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:39:20 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: Neill Robins Cc: "Jasper O'Malley" , j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630183920.C232@parish> References: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com>; from freebsd@nc.rr.com on Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:23:34PM -0400 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 11:23:34PM -0400, Neill Robins wrote: > Hello Jasper, > Thursday, June 29, 2000, 9:45:00 PM, you wrote: > JOM> On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >> On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 07:34:19PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > >> > > >> > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new > >> > supercomputer running windows. i can feel it, i just can't > >> > put my finger on it... > >> > >> URL? > > JOM> FWIW, it's an enormous IBM SP system, composed of 512 16-way SMP RS/6000's > JOM> running in parallel, interconnected with a propietary high-speed network > JOM> switch. > > JOM> Cheers, > JOM> Mick > > http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp > Thanks > > -- > Best regards, > Neill > freebsd@nc.rr.com > > -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 12:16:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [209.98.143.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6408137BC84 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from bone.nectar.com (bone.nectar.com [10.0.1.105]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8B79B31; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:16:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bone.nectar.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 99B871DCB; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:16:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:16:10 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Doug White Cc: Haikal Saadh , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630141610.G91583@bone.nectar.com> References: <007e01bfe325$45a687e0$49a393cb@timberwolf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:55:10AM -0700 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:55:10AM -0700, Doug White wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Haikal Saadh wrote: > > > OS/2 perhaps? Wasn't win95 'born' from OS/2? > > s/95/NT/ I think this is a common misconception. Windows NT did (does?) have a OS/2-like subsystem, but the resemblance ends there. NT was much more influenced by VMS, Mach, RSX11, and Windows 3.1 than OS/2. -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 12:37:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233E237B5A0 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:37:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org) Received: from parish.my.domain ([62.253.90.12]) by mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000630193711.MTZS381.mta01-svc.server.ntlworld.com@parish.my.domain>; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:37:11 +0100 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish.my.domain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01493; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:37:08 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 20:37:03 +0100 From: Mark Ovens To: "Jacques A. Vidrine" Cc: Doug White , Haikal Saadh , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630203703.H232@parish> References: <007e01bfe325$45a687e0$49a393cb@timberwolf> <20000630141610.G91583@bone.nectar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000630141610.G91583@bone.nectar.com>; from n@nectar.com on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:16:10PM -0500 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:16:10PM -0500, Jacques A. Vidrine wrote: > On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:55:10AM -0700, Doug White wrote: > > On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Haikal Saadh wrote: > > > > > OS/2 perhaps? Wasn't win95 'born' from OS/2? > > > > s/95/NT/ > > I think this is a common misconception. Windows NT did (does?) have a > OS/2-like subsystem, but the resemblance ends there. > The misconception probably arises because OS/2 was going to be what NT is now (if M$ hadn't thrown their toys out of the cot when IBM wanted Presentation Manager instead of the Windows GUI), i.e. a 32-bit multi-tasking OS. When M$ and IBM went their separate ways M$ developed NT from Win 3.x (and doesn't it show?). > NT was much more influenced by VMS, Mach, RSX11, and Windows 3.1 than > OS/2. > -- > Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- If I buy a copy of WinDelete, and it doesn't delete Windows, am I entitled to my money back? ________________________________________________________________ FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark/ mailto:mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 12:43:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [209.98.143.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23CF037BC31 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@nectar.com) Received: from bone.nectar.com (bone.nectar.com [10.0.1.105]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07D69B36; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:43:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: by bone.nectar.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 712CF1DCB; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:43:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:43:26 -0500 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Mark Ovens Cc: Doug White , Haikal Saadh , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630144326.I91583@bone.nectar.com> References: <007e01bfe325$45a687e0$49a393cb@timberwolf> <20000630141610.G91583@bone.nectar.com> <20000630203703.H232@parish> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000630203703.H232@parish>; from mark@ukug.uk.freebsd.org on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:37:03PM +0100 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 08:37:03PM +0100, Mark Ovens wrote: > The misconception probably arises because OS/2 was going to be what NT > is now (if M$ hadn't thrown their toys out of the cot when IBM wanted > Presentation Manager instead of the Windows GUI), i.e. a 32-bit > multi-tasking OS. It certainly reeks of NIH (something for which IBM was traditionally blamed). But it isn't the whole story: OS/2 up through 1.2 --- joint developed by Microsoft/IBM 1.3 --- IBM 2.x --- IBM never released 3.x --- Microsoft IBM/Microsoft had agreed at a point that IBM would work on improving the existing OS/2 (1.x and 2.x), while Microsoft would do development of the OS/2 3 line. Only Microsoft wanted the Windows API, not PM, and so instead of OS/2 3, they got Windows NT. In fact, early design for OS/2 3 was similar to what was released as Windows NT 3.1: an ``executive'' layer with two personalities: OS/2 API and POSIX API. Then a Windows API was thrown in. > When M$ and IBM went their separate ways M$ developed NT from Win 3.x > (and doesn't it show?). Other than the Windows on Windows stuff, there isn't much Windows 3.1 code in Windows NT, AFAIK. -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 15:40:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [207.8.42.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCB537B5AA for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA60062; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:38:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:38:55 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: j mckitrick Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Neill Robins , "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000630173855.A59978@luke.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <183220759562.20000629232334@nc.rr.com> <20000630143716.A13271@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000630120036.A29936@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000630120036.A29936@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:00:37PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:00:37PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:37:16PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp > > > > (a) Where does it say it's running Windows? The only mentions of > > Microsoft or Windows I could find were at the bottom, "this page > > optimized for..." > > (b) Since when did windows run on an RS/6000? > > > > Something wrong here. > > this was obviously a HUGE tongue-in-cheek remark. i'm sure it actually runs > either unix or some proprietary OS. The RS/6000 SP systems run AIX (IBM's version of unix) as do all RS/6000s that I know of. (I spent the last 12 years of my 30-year IBM career working on AIX.) Bob -- Bob Willcox Everyone complains of his memory, no one of bob@immure.com his judgement. Austin, TX -- anonymous To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 18:11:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E1337C47D for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:11:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@bsdi.com) Received: from foo.osd.bsdi.com (root@foo.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.137]) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA77527; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@bsdi.com) Received: from bsdi.com (jhb@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by foo.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00516; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:11:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@bsdi.com) Message-ID: <395D4533.773369D3@bsdi.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:11:15 -0700 From: John Baldwin Organization: BSD, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Will Andrews Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: addport kicks easy-import out References: <20000630193121.L45643@argon.gryphonsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ moved to -chat ] Will Andrews wrote: > > Hi all, > > The recent addport commit should allow folks to use the script on > freefall using the -v switch (which will Just Do The Addjob, instead of > subjecting the port to tests, which will fail on freefall). So, are there any easy ways to tell imports of new ports apart from other ports commits now? Before I could use the 'Imported sources' bit in the subject line as my filter. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jun 30 23:26:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C8E237B85D for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@earthlink.net) Received: from dialin-client.earthlink.net (pool0615.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.252.105]) by merlin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14625 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by dialin-client.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00978 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:25:14 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Clinton Electronically Signs Digital Sig Law Message-ID: <20000630232513.F334@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Our chief executive sets a fine example in securing digital signatures when signing a bill into law making them binding, http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000630/ts/clinton_digital_dc_4.html He, 1) Uses his dog's name for the password. b) Tells everybody. I see the administration does take computer security seriously. Maybe William got his training from DOE. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 0: 5: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from agora.babug.org (agora.babug.org [205.166.121.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3A337B5EF for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:05:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@agora.babug.org) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by agora.babug.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA72082 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:05:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) From: Josef Grosch Message-Id: <200007010705.AAA72082@agora.babug.org> Subject: BAFUG Announce To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:05:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is the monthly BAFUG posting. It contains 3 sections; Jobs, Counter, and Retail notice. This is posted on the first of the month. If there are any questions please send them to jgrosch@MooseRiver.com Thanks *** JOBS NOTICE *** San Francisco Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) has put up a web page of employers in the San Francisco Bay Area who are looking for employees, permanent or contact, who have FreeBSD skills. The URL is : http://www.bafug.org/BayAreaJobs.html Employers: The emphasis here is FreeBSD. The job you are advertising should have FreeBSD as a major component of the job. If you wish to advertise a job please send the URL to your web page with the job listings to jgrosch@MooseRiver.com. Employees: When contacting these employers please tell them that you saw this job listing on the Bay Area FreeBSD Jobs page. *** COUNTER NOTICE *** FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of its counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://www.bafug.org/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spammers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. *** RETAIL NOTICE *** Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at http://www.bafug.org/Retail.html Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. -- $Id: BafugAnnounce.txt,v 1.2 1999/10/01 07:10:24 jgrosch Exp $ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 0:22:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3.gte.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E671137B9DE for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Received: from evrtwa1-ar4-146-005.dsl.gtei.net (evrtwa1-ar4-146-005.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.146.5]) by smtppop3.gte.net with ESMTP ; id CAA8957736 Sat, 1 Jul 2000 02:17:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:18:31 -0700 (PDT) From: The Clark Family X-Sender: res03db2@orthanc.dsl.gtei.net To: Bob Willcox Cc: j mckitrick , Rahul Siddharthan , Neill Robins , "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-Reply-To: <20000630173855.A59978@luke.immure.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org AIX once ran on PS/2 hardware? And consequently on Intel procs? (Only MCA though?) They may soon again? [RC] On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Bob Willcox wrote: > On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:00:37PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:37:16PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > > http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp > > > > > > (a) Where does it say it's running Windows? The only mentions of > > > Microsoft or Windows I could find were at the bottom, "this page > > > optimized for..." > > > (b) Since when did windows run on an RS/6000? > > > > > > Something wrong here. > > > > this was obviously a HUGE tongue-in-cheek remark. i'm sure it actually runs > > either unix or some proprietary OS. > > The RS/6000 SP systems run AIX (IBM's version of unix) as do all > RS/6000s that I know of. (I spent the last 12 years of my 30-year IBM > career working on AIX.) > > Bob > > -- > Bob Willcox Everyone complains of his memory, no one of > bob@immure.com his judgement. > Austin, TX -- anonymous > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 0:29:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop1.gte.net (smtppop1pub.gte.net [206.46.170.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E6E37B93B for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:29:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Received: from evrtwa1-ar4-146-005.dsl.gtei.net (evrtwa1-ar4-146-005.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.146.5]) by smtppop1.gte.net with ESMTP ; id CAA9318389 Sat, 1 Jul 2000 02:25:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: The Clark Family X-Sender: res03db2@orthanc.dsl.gtei.net To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-Reply-To: <20000629193419.C17793@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Built of the H80 or S80 systems? CHRP compliant, and running the PPC processor? Could run NetBSD or PPC linux on it? [RC] On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, j mckitrick wrote: > > there has to be a way of making a joke out of the new supercomputer running > windows. i can feel it, i just can't put my finger on it... > > jm > -- > --------------------------------------------- > Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org > Break free of The Matrix. Switch to FreeBSD. > --------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 1:36:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from inconnu.isu.edu (inconnu.isu.edu [134.50.8.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE1637B6BF for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:36:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from galt@inconnu.isu.edu) Received: from localhost (galt@localhost) by inconnu.isu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28503; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 02:36:11 -0600 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 02:36:11 -0600 (MDT) From: John Galt To: Doug White Cc: Haikal Saadh , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Doug White wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Haikal Saadh wrote: > > > OS/2 perhaps? Wasn't win95 'born' from OS/2? > > s/95/NT/ s/OS\/2/VMS > Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve > dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. Who is John Galt? galt@inconnu.isu.edu, that's who! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 3: 2: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D658E37B888 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 03:02:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e61A24d10201; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 03:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 03:02:04 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: ElephantsGoNorth Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re[2]: freebsd performance Message-ID: <20000701030203.D25571@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3987C7B4@operamail.com> <20000701013304.C25571@fw.wintelcom.net> <9716461430.20000701085508@isuisse.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <9716461430.20000701085508@isuisse.com>; from michellek@isuisse.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 08:55:08AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * ElephantsGoNorth [000701 01:56] wrote: > Hello, > > Saturday, July 01, 2000, 8:33:05 AM, you wrote: > > AP> * Bill Barnes [000701 01:26] wrote: > >> Hello list: > >> > >> if freebsd is running yahoo.com why is that website so damned slow. It's 3 > >> AM, CDT and it is taking minutes to fetch and delete mail. > >> I'm using Opera which is a fast browser elsewhere, but it sure bogs down at > >> mail.yahoo.com. Operamail and google are almost instant. > >> > >> Makes me wonder about perfomance on my website. > > AP> That's strange, it loads instantly for me, maybe your connectivity > AP> sucks? > > blazingly fast here :) > checked the mail.yahoo.com > > other than that Yahoo sucks big time ;) It's not Yahoo, it's the internet in general. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 3:52:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from clever.visp-europe.psi.com (clever.visp-europe.psi.com [212.222.105.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34D337B6FF for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 03:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jnickelsen@acm.org) Received: from ip104.berlin70.pub-ip.de.psi.net ([154.15.70.104] helo=goting.jn.berlin.snafu.de) by clever.visp-europe.psi.com with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #1) id 138KtA-0006Ip-00; Sat, 01 Jul 2000 12:52:44 +0200 Received: by goting.jn.berlin.snafu.de (Postfix, from userid 100) id 378C32263; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:52:28 +0200 (CEST) To: The Clark Family Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer References: From: Juergen Nickelsen Date: 01 Jul 2000 12:52:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: The Clark Family's message of "Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:18:31 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "Canyonlands" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The Clark Family writes: > AIX once ran on PS/2 hardware? And consequently on Intel procs? Yes, > (Only MCA though?) AFAIK, > They may soon again? guess not. Given the ubiquity and quality of the BSDs and Linux, backporting AIX to the Intel(-like) hardware probably doesn't pay. I heard that Sun is already cutting back their support of the Solaris x86 line. Can anyone confirm this? -- Juergen Nickelsen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 6: 7: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apoq.skynet.be (apoq.skynet.be [195.238.2.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7A837B9C7 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:07:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup799.brussels2.skynet.be [194.78.236.223]) by apoq.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932A5206E0; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:06:25 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 14:58:37 +0200 To: Juergen Nickelsen , The Clark Family From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:52 PM +0200 2000/7/1, Juergen Nickelsen wrote: > I heard that > Sun is already cutting back their support of the Solaris x86 > line. Can anyone confirm this? It wouldn't surprise me at all. They've never been committed to Solaris x86 the same way they were committed to Solaris SPARC, and IMO their support for x86 has always been second-best. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 6:25:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [207.8.42.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7B137B538 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:25:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA80056; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 08:23:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 08:23:22 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: The Clark Family Cc: j mckitrick , Rahul Siddharthan , Neill Robins , "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000701082322.B79571@luke.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20000630173855.A59978@luke.immure.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from res03db2@gte.net on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:18:31AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:18:31AM -0700, The Clark Family wrote: > > AIX once ran on PS/2 hardware? And consequently on Intel procs? That wasn't the same OS, really. The kernel was from LCC and completely unrelated to the kernel that runs on RS/6000. Many of the commands and libs were ported over from the RS/6000 system, but that's it. > > (Only MCA though?) > > They may soon again? Well, one never really knows for sure what will make it out the door. I believe it is public knowledge that IBM has been working on a version of AIX to run on Intel's itanium but I know nothing about it. > > [RC] > > On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Bob Willcox wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 12:00:37PM +0100, j mckitrick wrote: > > > On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 02:37:16PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > > > http://msnbc.com/news/426657.asp > > > > > > > > (a) Where does it say it's running Windows? The only mentions of > > > > Microsoft or Windows I could find were at the bottom, "this page > > > > optimized for..." > > > > (b) Since when did windows run on an RS/6000? > > > > > > > > Something wrong here. > > > > > > this was obviously a HUGE tongue-in-cheek remark. i'm sure it actually runs > > > either unix or some proprietary OS. > > > > The RS/6000 SP systems run AIX (IBM's version of unix) as do all > > RS/6000s that I know of. (I spent the last 12 years of my 30-year IBM > > career working on AIX.) > > > > Bob > > > > -- > > Bob Willcox Everyone complains of his memory, no one of > > bob@immure.com his judgement. > > Austin, TX -- anonymous > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > -- Bob Willcox Everyone complains of his memory, no one of bob@immure.com his judgement. Austin, TX -- anonymous To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 7: 9:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7319B37B79B for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:08:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 22158 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 14:08:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by 144.16.71.20 with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 14:08:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 8054 invoked by uid 211); 1 Jul 2000 14:08:00 -0000 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:37:59 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Bob Willcox Cc: The Clark Family , j mckitrick , Neill Robins , Jasper O'Malley , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000701193759.A8049@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000630173855.A59978@luke.immure.com> <20000701082322.B79571@luke.immure.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000701082322.B79571@luke.immure.com>; from bob@luke.immure.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 08:23:22AM -0500 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bob Willcox said on Jul 1, 2000 at 08:23:22: > Well, one never really knows for sure what will make it out the door. I > believe it is public knowledge that IBM has been working on a version of > AIX to run on Intel's itanium but I know nothing about it. I thought that was Monterey. The combined IBM/SCO/HP thing. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 7:13:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [207.8.42.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F097B37B79B for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:13:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA81056; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 09:11:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 09:11:10 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Bob Willcox , The Clark Family , j mckitrick , Neill Robins , "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000701091110.A80998@luke.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20000630173855.A59978@luke.immure.com> <20000701082322.B79571@luke.immure.com> <20000701193759.A8049@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000701193759.A8049@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 07:37:59PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 07:37:59PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Bob Willcox said on Jul 1, 2000 at 08:23:22: > > Well, one never really knows for sure what will make it out the door. I > > believe it is public knowledge that IBM has been working on a version of > > AIX to run on Intel's itanium but I know nothing about it. > > I thought that was Monterey. The combined IBM/SCO/HP thing. Yep, that is the code name. I didn't think HP had anything to do with it though (didn't last time I talked to my IBM buddies working on it about it, but that's been about a year ago now). Times and politics do change. Bob -- Bob Willcox Everyone complains of his memory, no one of bob@immure.com his judgement. Austin, TX -- anonymous To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 7:41:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.mich.com (mercury.mich.com [64.79.64.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96AAD37BAE3 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 07:41:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@almanac.yi.org) Received: from argon.gryphonsoft.com (pm007-001.dialup.bignet.net [64.79.81.33]) by mercury.mich.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07334; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:41:17 -0400 Received: by argon.gryphonsoft.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 82E751987; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:39:17 -0400 From: Will Andrews To: John Baldwin Cc: Will Andrews , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: addport kicks easy-import out Message-ID: <20000701103917.D62464@argon.gryphonsoft.com> References: <20000630193121.L45643@argon.gryphonsoft.com> <395D4533.773369D3@bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <395D4533.773369D3@bsdi.com>; from jhb@bsdi.com on Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 06:11:15PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jun 30, 2000 at 06:11:15PM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > So, are there any easy ways to tell imports of new ports apart > from other ports commits now? Before I could use the 'Imported > sources' bit in the subject line as my filter. I just had a thought: addport modifies the category Makefile along with adding the port. So you could have your script look for "ports" changes then look for "(archivers|astro|audio|benchmarks|...)" and "Makefile" below that. Then you can separate "removed port" and "added port" based on whether files below that are added or removed. Seems foolproof to me. Might as well check for "Imported sources" if someone decides on foolery and keeps using easy-import one way or another. =) -- Will Andrews GCS/E/S @d- s+:+>+:- a--->+++ C++ UB++++ P+ L- E--- W+++ !N !o ?K w--- ?O M+ V-- PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+>+++ t++ 5 X++ R+ tv+ b++>++++ DI+++ D+ G++>+++ e->++++ h! r-->+++ y? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 8: 7:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B37FA37BFF0 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 08:07:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 22490 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 15:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 15:07:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 8145 invoked by uid 211); 1 Jul 2000 15:07:09 -0000 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:37:09 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Bob Willcox Cc: The Clark Family , j mckitrick , Neill Robins , Jasper O'Malley , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000701203709.A8140@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000630173855.A59978@luke.immure.com> <20000701082322.B79571@luke.immure.com> <20000701193759.A8049@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000701091110.A80998@luke.immure.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000701091110.A80998@luke.immure.com>; from bob@luke.immure.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 09:11:10AM -0500 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bob Willcox said on Jul 1, 2000 at 09:11:10: > > I thought that was Monterey. The combined IBM/SCO/HP thing. > > Yep, that is the code name. I didn't think HP had anything to do with > it though (didn't last time I talked to my IBM buddies working on it > about it, but that's been about a year ago now). Times and politics do > change. I somehow had that impression, but apparently they don't. The third is Sequent. Maybe I'm confusing it with the linux itanium port, to which HP did contribute, I think. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 9:15:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from luke.immure.com (luke.immure.com [207.8.42.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C8337B6FE for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 09:15:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bob@luke.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by luke.immure.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA82701; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:54:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:54:15 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Bob Willcox , The Clark Family , j mckitrick , Neill Robins , "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer Message-ID: <20000701105415.A82095@luke.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20000630173855.A59978@luke.immure.com> <20000701082322.B79571@luke.immure.com> <20000701193759.A8049@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000701091110.A80998@luke.immure.com> <20000701203709.A8140@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000701203709.A8140@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 08:37:09PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 08:37:09PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Bob Willcox said on Jul 1, 2000 at 09:11:10: > > > I thought that was Monterey. The combined IBM/SCO/HP thing. > > > > Yep, that is the code name. I didn't think HP had anything to do with > > it though (didn't last time I talked to my IBM buddies working on it > > about it, but that's been about a year ago now). Times and politics do > > change. > > I somehow had that impression, but apparently they don't. The third is > Sequent. Yes, and IBM bought Sequent last year. I think Sequent joined the effort _after_ IBM acquired them. > Maybe I'm confusing it with the linux itanium port, to which > HP did contribute, I think. I have no knowledge of this (I don't follow Linux or HP activities much). Bob -- Bob Willcox Everyone complains of his memory, no one of bob@immure.com his judgement. Austin, TX -- anonymous To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 11:57: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop1.gte.net (smtppop1pub.gte.net [206.46.170.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65ACD37B899 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Received: from evrtwa1-ar4-146-005.dsl.gtei.net (evrtwa1-ar4-146-005.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.146.5]) by smtppop1.gte.net with ESMTP ; id NAA8394600 Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:51:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 11:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: The Clark Family X-Sender: res03db2@orthanc.dsl.gtei.net To: Bob Willcox Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Bob Willcox , j mckitrick , Neill Robins , "Jasper O'Malley" , Mark Ovens , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IBM supercomputer In-Reply-To: <20000701105415.A82095@luke.immure.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org HP has their own project to run HP/UX on Intel. (And apparently so does IBM.) If AIX can run on PPC, it can run on Intel. Why IBM would willingly get involved with SCO puzzles me. SCO has the touch of death. The whole industry is rife with company A canabalizing the corpse of company B. With AMD it was NexGen and the DEC Alpha. With HP it was Apollo. With Sun it was Cray. The only problem is that the number of corpses is dwindling. When Sun, SCO, BSDi, Linux, HP/UX, and AIX all run on Intel or Intel derivatives, what will the market be like? Will pricing pressures cause UNIX server hardware to merge with its PC server bretheren? Some of the hottest UNIX boxen out there are PCI based. Is everything eventually going to be Intel? [RC] On Sat, 1 Jul 2000, Bob Willcox wrote: > On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 08:37:09PM +0530, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > Bob Willcox said on Jul 1, 2000 at 09:11:10: > > > > I thought that was Monterey. The combined IBM/SCO/HP thing. > > > > > > Yep, that is the code name. I didn't think HP had anything to do with > > > it though (didn't last time I talked to my IBM buddies working on it > > > about it, but that's been about a year ago now). Times and politics do > > > change. > > > > I somehow had that impression, but apparently they don't. The third is > > Sequent. > > Yes, and IBM bought Sequent last year. I think Sequent joined the > effort _after_ IBM acquired them. > > > Maybe I'm confusing it with the linux itanium port, to which > > HP did contribute, I think. > > I have no knowledge of this (I don't follow Linux or HP activities > much). > > Bob > > -- > Bob Willcox Everyone complains of his memory, no one of > bob@immure.com his judgement. > Austin, TX -- anonymous > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 12:45:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vortex.greycat.com (vortex.greycat.com [207.173.133.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 20C0E37B89F for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:45:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dann@greycat.com) Received: (qmail 6866 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 19:45:31 -0000 Received: from bigphred.greycat.com (HELO greycat.com) (207.173.133.2) by vortex.greycat.com with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 19:45:31 -0000 Received: (from dann@localhost) by greycat.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA36569 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dann) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:45:30 -0700 From: Dann Lunsford To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: ((FreeBSD : Linux) :: (OS/2 : Windows)) Message-ID: <20000701124530.A36442@greycat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been thinking about the Linuxulator a bit lately (trying to get a DVD player from Linux on my FreeBSD laptop), and the analogy in $SUBJECT hit me. It has always seemed to me that one of the worst things that IBM did was make the Windoze subsystem of OS/2 too good; there was no need for anyone to produce OS/2 stuff, since OS/2 people could simply use the Windoze version of Product X (I can recall being told *exactly* this from >10 vendors). This despite the fact that native versions would perform better, be able to have more features, etc. Now I'm worried. We all know what happened to OS/2; is there a danger of the same thing happening to FreeBSD? I think there is. I recently saw that Applix was considering dropping FreeBSD as a platform, in favor of Linux only; I wrote them a polite protest, as I'm sure a lot of you did, and was pleased to see later that Applixware-FreeBSD would continue. However, that announcement was lukewarm, and left, in my mind, at least, a distinct impression that they would prefer to just concentrate on Linux. I saw precisely the same attitudes from vendors wrt OS/2 vs Windoze. Now, I freely admit to being a bit paranoid; but, as the saying goes, paranoids can have real enemies, too. Thoughts? -- Dann Lunsford The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil Idann@greycat.com is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 13:10:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1513B37B920 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 23912 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 20:09:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 20:09:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 9339 invoked by uid 211); 1 Jul 2000 20:09:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:39:52 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Dann Lunsford Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ((FreeBSD : Linux) :: (OS/2 : Windows)) Message-ID: <20000702013952.C8634@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000701124530.A36442@greycat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000701124530.A36442@greycat.com>; from dann@greycat.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:45:30PM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I think the big difference is that FreeBSD is very much a user-supported thing -- it didn't grow because of marketing by IBM and doesn't depend on things like that -- so it will survive, for the same reasons linux will. But the linux compatibility definitely helps it attract more users. I have persuaded at least two people to use it who would not have done so if it couldn't run linux versions of matlab and acrobat reader. As the user community grows, more native versions of software may happen. But right now I don't think FreeBSD is in a position to reduce quality of linux support and say "give me a native version, linux emulation isn't good enough"... very few vendors will listen, and a lower quality of linux compatibility won't be good for users. Dann Lunsford said on Jul 1, 2000 at 12:45:30: > I've been thinking about the Linuxulator a bit lately (trying to get a > DVD player from Linux on my FreeBSD laptop), and the analogy in $SUBJECT > hit me. It has always seemed to me that one of the worst things that > IBM did was make the Windoze subsystem of OS/2 too good; there was no > need for anyone to produce OS/2 stuff, since OS/2 people could simply > use the Windoze version of Product X (I can recall being told *exactly* > this from >10 vendors). This despite the fact that native versions > would perform better, be able to have more features, etc. > > Now I'm worried. We all know what happened to OS/2; is there a danger > of the same thing happening to FreeBSD? I think there is. I recently > saw that Applix was considering dropping FreeBSD as a platform, in > favor of Linux only; I wrote them a polite protest, as I'm sure a lot > of you did, and was pleased to see later that Applixware-FreeBSD would > continue. However, that announcement was lukewarm, and left, in > my mind, at least, a distinct impression that they would prefer to > just concentrate on Linux. I saw precisely the same attitudes from > vendors wrt OS/2 vs Windoze. > > Now, I freely admit to being a bit paranoid; but, as the saying > goes, paranoids can have real enemies, too. > > Thoughts? > -- > Dann Lunsford The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil > Idann@greycat.com is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 13:27:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ptd.net (mail1.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 438AD37B505 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:27:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tms2@mail.ptd.net) Received: (qmail 11282 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 20:27:17 -0000 Received: from du83.cli.ptd.net (HELO mail.ptd.net) (204.186.33.83) by mail.ptd.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 20:27:17 -0000 Message-ID: <395E5406.711F391C@mail.ptd.net> Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 16:26:46 -0400 From: "Thomas M. Sommers" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Clinton Electronically Signs Digital Sig Law References: <20000630232513.F334@dialin-client.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Crist J. Clark" wrote: > > Our chief executive sets a fine example in securing digital signatures > when signing a bill into law making them binding, > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000630/ts/clinton_digital_dc_4.html > > He, > > 1) Uses his dog's name for the password. > > b) Tells everybody. > > I see the administration does take computer security seriously. Maybe > William got his training from DOE. Since digital signatures are not binding until the law is signed, and since he signed it digitally, his digital signature on the bill is not binding. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 13:29:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D10737B9D6 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 23931 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2000 20:29:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 1 Jul 2000 20:29:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 9400 invoked by uid 211); 1 Jul 2000 20:28:59 -0000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:58:58 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Thomas M. Sommers" Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clinton Electronically Signs Digital Sig Law Message-ID: <20000702015858.D8634@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: "Thomas M. Sommers" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20000630232513.F334@dialin-client.earthlink.net> <395E5406.711F391C@mail.ptd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <395E5406.711F391C@mail.ptd.net>; from tms2@mail.ptd.net on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 04:26:46PM -0400 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thomas M. Sommers said on Jul 1, 2000 at 16:26:46: > "Crist J. Clark" wrote: > > > > Our chief executive sets a fine example in securing digital signatures > > when signing a bill into law making them binding, > > > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000630/ts/clinton_digital_dc_4.html > > > > He, > > > > 1) Uses his dog's name for the password. > > > > b) Tells everybody. > > > > I see the administration does take computer security seriously. Maybe > > William got his training from DOE. > > Since digital signatures are not binding until the law is signed, and > since he signed it digitally, his digital signature on the bill is not > binding. The news item says he also signed it the conventional way, to avoid possible legal problems. R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 19:27:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id 8760637B68A; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:27:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: fran@reyes.somos.net Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <200006240613.CAA37632@sanson.reyes.somos.net> (fran@reyes.somos.net) Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Message-Id: <20000702022716.8760637B68A@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I suggest the name freebsd-corporate > > We could also discuss the type of issues that affect > corporations and how to solve them using FreeBSD (i.e. providing > conectivity to Appleshare, Netware and NT boxes). > > i am not against the idea, but rather wary of how much it will be used. many lists haev been created and then languished unused for quite a while. lets hear from some more people that would use this list. jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 19:43:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 608) id E12DC37B580; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:43:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: fran@reyes.somos.net Cc: n@nectar.com, chat@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <200006251440.KAA42981@sanson.reyes.somos.net> (fran@reyes.somos.net) Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Message-Id: <20000702024353.E12DC37B580@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> >We could also discuss the type of issues that affect > >> >corporations and how to solve them using FreeBSD (i.e. providing > >> >conectivity to Appleshare, Netware and NT boxes). > > > >Sounds like a topic for -questions or even -net. > > So far there are about 5 people besides myself that disagree. > I have setup an egroups list. > > I am waiting until wednesday to see if I hear from the > listmaster, otherwise I am going live with egroups. if it grows enough and is used regularly for a little while, i'll be happy to set up a list at freebsd.org. in the past several lists have been created and then ignored by everyone, including those that wanted the new list ;( jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 20:48:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AB137BC65 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:48:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e623mfO05078; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:48:41 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Doug Barton Cc: Bill Barnes , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd performance Message-ID: <20000701204841.M25571@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3987C7B4@operamail.com> <20000701013304.C25571@fw.wintelcom.net> <395EB69B.A996E285@gorean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <395EB69B.A996E285@gorean.org>; from DougB@gorean.org on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 08:27:23PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Doug Barton [000701 20:27] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > * Bill Barnes [000701 01:26] wrote: > > > Hello list: > > > > > > if freebsd is running yahoo.com why is that website so damned slow. It's 3 > > > AM, CDT and it is taking minutes to fetch and delete mail. > > > I'm using Opera which is a fast browser elsewhere, but it sure bogs down at > > > mail.yahoo.com. Operamail and google are almost instant. > > > > > > Makes me wonder about perfomance on my website. > > > > That's strange, it loads instantly for me, maybe your connectivity > > sucks? > > Actually it might not be his connectivity. There was a fiber cut at > Global in Sunnyvale that had a drastic effect on their network, and thus > Yahoo!'s, since quite a few of our machines are co-located there. (all > of this is public knowledge, btw) Yes, I was razzing some Yahoo employees over IRC chat in real-time during the outtage. :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 22:27:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD5137B674 for ; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16705; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 23:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000701232206.04940100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 23:27:21 -0600 To: Dann Lunsford , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: ((FreeBSD : Linux) :: (OS/2 : Windows)) In-Reply-To: <20000701124530.A36442@greycat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:45 PM 7/1/2000, Dann Lunsford wrote: >I've been thinking about the Linuxulator a bit lately (trying to get a >DVD player from Linux on my FreeBSD laptop), and the analogy in $SUBJECT >hit me. It has always seemed to me that one of the worst things that >IBM did was make the Windoze subsystem of OS/2 too good; there was no >need for anyone to produce OS/2 stuff, since OS/2 people could simply >use the Windoze version of Product X (I can recall being told *exactly* >this from >10 vendors). This despite the fact that native versions >would perform better, be able to have more features, etc. Dann: I raised this issue several a few years ago, and believe you have a point. Many vendors already tell me that FreeBSD ports of the products are not in the works and tell me to use the Linux versions of their products instead. (Of course, they won't support them if something goes wrong, but that's another story.) The "Linuxulator" will make it more difficult for the BSDs, and FreeBSD in particular, to rise to prominence. I'm doing what I can to get them there, and the results are beginning to show (despite the doubts expressed by a few naysayers on this and other mailing lists). But there's no question that you're right: to emulate a stronger competitor is to jeopardize one's chances of getting native ports. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 1 22:47:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from vulcan.addy.com (vulcan.addy.com [208.11.142.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0B137B6DF; Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:47:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Received: from tomasa (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by vulcan.addy.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA16718; Sun, 2 Jul 2000 01:47:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200007020547.BAA16718@vulcan.addy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 01:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <20000702022716.8760637B68A@hub.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Suggested new list freebsd-corporate Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:27:16 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: >> >> I suggest the name freebsd-corporate >i am not against the idea, but rather wary of how much it will >be used. many lists haev been created and then languished unused for >quite a while. Understood and think it is a good point. If it takes off then we will let you know. Also I am leaning towards making it "BSD-Corporate" so other BSDs can be involved. Would this be a problem with hosting the list with the rest of the FreeBSD lists? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message