From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 2:17:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mout1.silyn-tek.de (mout1.silyn-tek.de [194.25.165.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5235137B68F for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 02:17:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from [192.168.32.34] (helo=mx2.silyn-tek.de) by mout1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 13GHsz-0001ih-00; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:17:25 +0200 Received: from p3e9c1151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([62.156.17.81] helo=neutron.cichlids.com) by mx2.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 13GHsy-0005xx-00; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:17:25 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7BFDAB91; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:19:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cichlids.cichlids.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3B4BF14BAF; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:17:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:17:22 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: vinum Message-ID: <20000723111722.A3134@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <8l2c48$m0a$1@atlantis.rz.tu-clausthal.de> <200007191513.RAA44083@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> <20000720094542.A32045@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000721205428.B342@pool0710.cvx20-bradley.dialup.e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000721205428.B342@pool0710.cvx20-bradley.dialup.e>; from cristjc@earthlink.net on Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 08:54:29PM -0700 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Crist J. Clark (cristjc@earthlink.net): > > However, dc is an odd tool. > What? Not a fan of reverse-polish notation? No, it's not the polish notation, which is not a problem for me. It's the odd thing, how it outputs stuff :) Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 5: 6: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B4537B945 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 05:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA36838; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:05:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:05:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200007231205.OAA36838@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: dc (was: Re: vinum) X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <8led7u$26h8$1@atlantis.rz.tu-clausthal.de> Organization: Administration TU Clausthal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: tin/1.4.1-19991201 ("Polish") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.4-19991219-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In list.freebsd-chat Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Crist J. Clark (cristjc@earthlink.net): > > > However, dc is an odd tool. > > What? Not a fan of reverse-polish notation? > > No, it's not the polish notation, which is not a problem for me. > It's the odd thing, how it outputs stuff :) Hum? It outputs decimal numbers by default. And it can print both odd and even numbers. ;-) I use dc quite often in shell scripts to calculate all kinds of things. It's very useful, and it's portable. (Except for the "P" command which depends on the byte- level representation of numbers on the respective platforms, thus it is not portable.) By the way, I even think that dc is turing-complete. I haven't tried to prove it, though. :) Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Addresses will change soon!! If in doubt: www.fromme.com "In jedem Stück Kohle wartet ein Diamant auf seine Geburt" (Terry Pratchett) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 5:24:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mout1.silyn-tek.de (mout1.silyn-tek.de [194.25.165.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C51837B8D4 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 05:24:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from [192.168.32.33] (helo=mx1.silyn-tek.de) by mout1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 13GKnc-00026Q-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:24:04 +0200 Received: from p3e9d38dd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([62.157.56.221] helo=neutron.cichlids.com) by mx1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 13GKnX-0004gY-00 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:24:00 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06616AB91 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:25:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cichlids.cichlids.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6697014BAF; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:23:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:23:56 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dc (was: Re: vinum) Message-ID: <20000723142356.A6164@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <8led7u$26h8$1@atlantis.rz.tu-clausthal.de> <200007231205.OAA36838@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200007231205.OAA36838@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de>; from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de on Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 02:05:58PM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. From: alex@big.endian.de (Alexander Langer) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Oliver Fromme (olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de): > > It's the odd thing, how it outputs stuff :) > Hum? It outputs decimal numbers by default. > And it can print both odd and even numbers. ;-) *lol* well ok. I thought it can only output via "P" :) So, I think it's really quite useful. > By the way, I even think that dc is turing-complete. > I haven't tried to prove it, though. :) *g* Hmm. What would one do to prove it? Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 5:31:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de [139.174.243.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1391A37B8D4 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 05:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA37963; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:31:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olli) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:31:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200007231231.OAA37963@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: dc X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: <8leo5p$2bm6$1@atlantis.rz.tu-clausthal.de> Organization: Administration TU Clausthal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: tin/1.4.1-19991201 ("Polish") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.4-19991219-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In list.freebsd-chat Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Oliver Fromme (olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de): > [...] > > By the way, I even think that dc is turing-complete. > > I haven't tried to prove it, though. :) > > *g* > Hmm. What would one do to prove it? You'd have to prove that it is equivalent to a turing machine, i.e. that you could implement a turing machine with it. One example of such an implementation would be sufficient to prove it. Since dc provides input and output facilities, infinitely sized stacks (at least the manpage doesn't mention any limits) and conditional constructs, I'm pretty sure that it's turing-complete. Although it's probably non-trivial to prove. Regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, Leibnizstr. 18/61, 38678 Clausthal, Germany (Info: finger userinfo:olli@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de) Addresses will change soon!! If in doubt: www.fromme.com "In jedem Stück Kohle wartet ein Diamant auf seine Geburt" (Terry Pratchett) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 7: 8:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from happy.checkpoint.com (happy.checkpoint.com [199.203.156.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6A137B591 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 07:08:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mellon@pobox.com) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by happy.checkpoint.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA79422; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:09:35 +0300 (IDT) (envelope-from mellon@pobox.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:09:35 +0300 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: Alexander Langer Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dc (was: Re: vinum) Message-ID: <20000723170935.A79406@happy.checkpoint.com> References: <8led7u$26h8$1@atlantis.rz.tu-clausthal.de> <200007231205.OAA36838@dorifer.heim3.tu-clausthal.de> <20000723142356.A6164@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000723142356.A6164@cichlids.cichlids.com>; from alex@big.endian.de on Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 02:23:56PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jul 23, 2000 at 02:23:56PM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: > > By the way, I even think that dc is turing-complete. > > I haven't tried to prove it, though. :) > > *g* > > Hmm. What would one do to prove it? One would simulate (or implement, to look at it otherwise) a universal turing machine on it. -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 7:50:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8697B37BB6F; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 07:50:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: from kilt.nothing-going-on.org (root@kilt.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.18]) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15737; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:26:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01866; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:21:05 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:20:50 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Nik Clayton , committers@FreeBSD.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Freeze date passed Message-ID: <20000721222050.A1817@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> Reply-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <200007201828.MAA92374@harmony.village.org> <200007202328.QAA32123@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20000721083043.A1034@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> <20000721145356.E44512@ywing.creative.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000721145356.E44512@ywing.creative.net.au>; from adrian@FreeBSD.org on Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:53:56PM +0200 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ redirected to -chat ] On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 02:53:56PM +0200, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On Fri, Jul 21, 2000, Nik Clayton wrote: > > You are invited to use your imaginations to guess exactly how United > > Airlines managed this particular cluster-fuck. > > There's only one way to fix this: > > Frequent Flyer Coupons x 100 .. Yeah, like I ever want to fly with this UA again. Guess what. The 10:10 from Monterey to LA left a good 50 minutes later than it should have done. And after rushing to catch the LA flight (with a couple of minutes to spare) we then sat on the tarmac for another 80 minutes while they put fuel in the plane. That's eight flights in twelve days, every single one of which was either delayed in take off, or getting in to the gate after landing. I'm spending the next nine hours composing the complaint letter from hell. N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 8: 8:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0015437BAA4; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e6NF8Zi01380; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:08:35 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Adrian Chadd , Nik Clayton Subject: Re: Freeze date passed Message-ID: <20000723080835.M13979@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200007201828.MAA92374@harmony.village.org> <200007202328.QAA32123@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20000721083043.A1034@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> <20000721145356.E44512@ywing.creative.net.au> <20000721222050.A1817@kilt.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20000721222050.A1817@kilt.nothing-going-on.org>; from nik@FreeBSD.ORG on Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 10:20:50PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Nik Clayton [000723 07:50] wrote: > [ redirected to -chat ] > > Yeah, like I ever want to fly with this UA again. > > Guess what. The 10:10 from Monterey to LA left a good 50 minutes later > than it should have done. And after rushing to catch the LA flight (with > a couple of minutes to spare) we then sat on the tarmac for another 80 > minutes while they put fuel in the plane. > > That's eight flights in twelve days, every single one of which was either > delayed in take off, or getting in to the gate after landing. I'm spending > the next nine hours composing the complaint letter from hell. I have offensive ascii art if you need it. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 12:53:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns3.tstt.net.tt (ns3.tstt.net.tt [196.3.132.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C26537B5AE for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dchulhan@uwi.tt) Received: from uwi.tt (cuscon4629.tstt.net.tt [209.94.221.135]) by ns3.tstt.net.tt with ESMTP id PAA54092 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:52:18 -0400 Message-ID: <397B4CED.C3A173A6@uwi.tt> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:52:13 -0400 From: "Dale E. Chulhan" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Single User Logon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have ten devil machines functioning as 'workstations' and another as a server. How do I centralise the account home directories and the logins ( /etc/passwd ) so that I don't have to create accounts for all my users on each machine? I need help fast. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 13:10:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F17E37B7B1 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:10:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA98591; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:10:42 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:10:42 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: "Dale E. Chulhan" Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Single User Logon In-Reply-To: <397B4CED.C3A173A6@uwi.tt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Dale E. Chulhan wrote: :I have ten devil machines functioning as 'workstations' and another as a server. :How do I centralise the account home directories and the logins ( /etc/passwd ) :so that I don't have to create accounts for all my users on each machine? NFS and NIS are the traditonal way of doing this. If you need more than that, you'd be better served by asking -questions, and not -chat. David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 13:57: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6872237B8E7 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:56:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11595; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:56:36 -0400 (EDT) From: To: David Scheidt Cc: "Dale E. Chulhan" , "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Single User Logon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The way I do it is, NFS mount /home from the primary server to the "client" boxes. Then use rsync+ssh to push the password files and group files to the "client" boxes from the server. Alot more secure than NIS and a HECK of alot easier to implement. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 18:20:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from eastgate.starhub.net.sg (eastgate.starhub.net.sg [203.116.1.189]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF45537B526 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from amar@sakon.com.sg) Received: from amar (mcns4-docsis196.bd.singa.pore.net [202.156.83.196]) by eastgate.starhub.net.sg (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id e6O1KJm29362 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:20:19 +0800 (SST) Reply-To: From: "Rick" To: Subject: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:20:17 +0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I would like 2 know which is the latest version for freebsd. :PP To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 23 19:25:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4CE437B843 for ; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15353; Sun, 23 Jul 2000 22:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 22:25:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: scanner@jurai.net Cc: David Scheidt , "Dale E. Chulhan" , "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Single User Logon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 scanner@jurai.net wrote: > The way I do it is, NFS mount /home from the primary server to the > "client" boxes. Then use rsync+ssh to push the password files and > group files to the "client" boxes from the server. Alot more secure > than NIS and a HECK of alot easier to implement. No, no no... You use YP/NIS and Kerberos5. Alot more secure and a heck of alot more complex to implement. :) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 2:42:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mout1.silyn-tek.de (mout1.silyn-tek.de [194.25.165.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E36737B70B for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 02:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@big.endian.de) Received: from [192.168.32.33] (helo=mx1.silyn-tek.de) by mout1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 13Geks-00056o-00; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:42:34 +0200 Received: from p3e9c1146.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([62.156.17.70] helo=neutron.cichlids.com) by mx1.silyn-tek.de with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 13Gekk-0007nB-00; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:42:28 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by neutron.cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F97EAB91; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:44:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cichlids.cichlids.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 74E8314A6A; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:42:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:42:04 +0200 To: Rick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20000724114204.A15032@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mail-Followup-To: Rick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from amar@sakon.com.sg on Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 09:20:17AM +0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. From: alex@big.endian.de (Alexander Langer) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake Rick (amar@sakon.com.sg): > I would like 2 know which is the latest version for freebsd. 4.1 is coming out in some days. Alex -- cat: /home/alex/.sig: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 3:53:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.aracnet.com (mail3.aracnet.com [216.99.193.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9E137B61B for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 03:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmp@aracnet.com) Received: from aracnet.com (216-99-218-166.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.166]) by mail3.aracnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10829 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 03:53:45 -0700 Message-ID: <397C2036.9D8B8E20@aracnet.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 03:53:42 -0700 From: D M P Organization: dmp@aracnet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: 3.5-R CD sets? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My apologies if this is mis-posted, but I didn't really think -questions was the right place for this particular inquiry, and I couldn't think of any other lists that might be appropriate. It has now been a month since 3.5 was released, but the CD sets have yet to be seen on FreeBSD Mall or WC-CDROM. The 3.5-R announcement did say there was going to be CD sets. I'm wondering when they're going to be made available? Also, will my subscription cover 3.5? -- [dmp] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 5:10:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3BF37B547 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 05:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA45405; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:10:22 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:10:22 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Dale E. Chulhan" Cc: "chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Single User Logon In-Reply-To: <397B4CED.C3A173A6@uwi.tt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Dale E. Chulhan wrote: > I have ten devil machines functioning as 'workstations' and another as a server. > How do I centralise the account home directories and the logins ( /etc/passwd ) > so that I don't have to create accounts for all my users on each machine? > 'devil machines'? > I need help fast. > Use Kerberos&Hesiod or NIS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 10:10:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F6137BBA1 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@pike.osd.bsdi.com) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA49402; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb) From: John Baldwin Message-Id: <200007241710.KAA49402@pike.osd.bsdi.com> Subject: Re: 3.5-R CD sets? In-Reply-To: <397C2036.9D8B8E20@aracnet.com> from D M P at "Jul 24, 2000 03:53:42 am" To: D M P Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org D M P wrote: > My apologies if this is mis-posted, but I didn't really think > -questions was the right place for this particular inquiry, and I > couldn't think of any other lists that might be appropriate. > > It has now been a month since 3.5 was released, but the CD sets have > yet to be seen on FreeBSD Mall or WC-CDROM. The 3.5-R announcement > did say there was going to be CD sets. I'm wondering when they're > going to be made available? Also, will my subscription cover 3.5? Due to some bugs that were found right after 3.5 was released, Jordan has run an extra 3.5.1 release that is going to be used on the CD's. They are now being tested as far as I know, but I have no idea when they will be shipped. Jordan should have the answer to that question though. -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 10:23:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B1B37B53C for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:23:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Received: from localhost (lplist@localhost) by q.closedsrc.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id e6OHKM832883; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:20:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:20:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: John Baldwin Cc: D M P , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.5-R CD sets? In-Reply-To: <200007241710.KAA49402@pike.osd.bsdi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org this has probably been covered before, but does anyone know if the 3.5.x CD's will be part of the subscription releases or will 4.1 be the only one? // Linh Pham // // Proud supporter of FreeBSD and OpenBSD // FreeBSD - http://www.freebsd.org // OpenBSD - http://www.openbsd.org /* "Oregon, n.: Eighty billion gallons of water with no place to go on Saturday night." */ On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, John Baldwin wrote: > D M P wrote: > > My apologies if this is mis-posted, but I didn't really think > > -questions was the right place for this particular inquiry, and I > > couldn't think of any other lists that might be appropriate. > > > > It has now been a month since 3.5 was released, but the CD sets have > > yet to be seen on FreeBSD Mall or WC-CDROM. The 3.5-R announcement > > did say there was going to be CD sets. I'm wondering when they're > > going to be made available? Also, will my subscription cover 3.5? > > Due to some bugs that were found right after 3.5 was released, Jordan > has run an extra 3.5.1 release that is going to be used on the CD's. > They are now being tested as far as I know, but I have no idea when > they will be shipped. Jordan should have the answer to that question > though. > > -- > > John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ > PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 10:50:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F37E837BC0D for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:50:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA05926; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:50:36 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Linh Pham Cc: John Baldwin , D M P , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.5-R CD sets? Message-ID: <20000724105036.A23374@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <200007241710.KAA49402@pike.osd.bsdi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: ; from lplist@q.closedsrc.org on Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0700, Linh Pham wrote: > > this has probably been covered before, but does anyone know if the 3.5.x > CD's will be part of the subscription releases or will 4.1 be the only > one? 3.5 will not be part of the subscription. IIRC, the 3.5 disks almost got cancled, but there turned out to be sufficient demand. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 11:23:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6819337BD16 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:23:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Received: from localhost (lplist@localhost) by q.closedsrc.org (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id e6OIKYt33057; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:20:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:20:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: Brooks Davis Cc: John Baldwin , D M P , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.5-R CD sets? In-Reply-To: <20000724105036.A23374@orion.ac.hmc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks for the information... Do you know when it might be available at either Walnet Creek CDROM or the FreeBSD Mall? Again, thank you // Linh Pham // // Proud supporter of FreeBSD and OpenBSD // FreeBSD - http://www.freebsd.org // OpenBSD - http://www.openbsd.org /* "Oregon, n.: Eighty billion gallons of water with no place to go on Saturday night." */ On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Brooks Davis wrote: > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0700, Linh Pham wrote: > > > > this has probably been covered before, but does anyone know if the 3.5.x > > CD's will be part of the subscription releases or will 4.1 be the only > > one? > > 3.5 will not be part of the subscription. IIRC, the 3.5 disks almost > got cancled, but there turned out to be sufficient demand. > > -- Brooks > > -- > Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 12:56: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.aracnet.com (mail2.aracnet.com [216.99.193.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD04637BDD4 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:56:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmp@aracnet.com) Received: from aracnet.com (216-99-218-166.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.166]) by mail2.aracnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17969; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:55:48 -0700 Message-ID: <397C9F40.E3F58F95@aracnet.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:55:44 -0700 From: D M P Organization: dmp@aracnet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brooks Davis Cc: Linh Pham , John Baldwin , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.5-R CD sets? References: <200007241710.KAA49402@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20000724105036.A23374@orion.ac.hmc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brooks Davis wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0700, Linh Pham wrote: > > > > this has probably been covered before, but does anyone know if the 3.5.x > > CD's will be part of the subscription releases or will 4.1 be the only > > one? > > 3.5 will not be part of the subscription. IIRC, the 3.5 disks almost > got cancled, but there turned out to be sufficient demand. What was the reasoning for its exclusion? -- [dmp] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 14:59:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4375437BC53 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11551; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:59:27 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: D M P Cc: Brooks Davis , Linh Pham , John Baldwin , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.5-R CD sets? Message-ID: <20000724145927.A4911@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <200007241710.KAA49402@pike.osd.bsdi.com> <20000724105036.A23374@orion.ac.hmc.edu> <397C9F40.E3F58F95@aracnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: <397C9F40.E3F58F95@aracnet.com>; from dmp@aracnet.com on Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:55:44PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:55:44PM -0700, D M P wrote: > Brooks Davis wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0700, Linh Pham wrote: > > > > > > this has probably been covered before, but does anyone know if the 3.5.x > > > CD's will be part of the subscription releases or will 4.1 be the only > > > one? > > > > 3.5 will not be part of the subscription. IIRC, the 3.5 disks almost > > got cancled, but there turned out to be sufficient demand. > > What was the reasoning for its exclusion? If you mean the exclusion of 3.5 from the subscription, it was because 4.0 has generally been such a good release and 3.5 is such a non-entity relative to 3.4 that it was felt that most people wouldn't want it. Or at least, that's my understanding. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 24 16:19: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.aracnet.com (mail3.aracnet.com [216.99.193.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6773537B55A for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:18:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmp@aracnet.com) Received: from shell1.aracnet.com (shell1.aracnet.com [216.99.193.21]) by mail3.aracnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14834; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:18:24 -0700 Received: by shell1.aracnet.com (8.9.3) id QAA19287; Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:18:01 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:18:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Darren Pilgrim To: Brooks Davis Cc: Linh Pham , John Baldwin , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.5-R CD sets? In-Reply-To: <20000724145927.A4911@orion.ac.hmc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Brooks Davis wrote: > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 12:55:44PM -0700, D M P wrote: > > Brooks Davis wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 10:20:22AM -0700, Linh Pham wrote: > > > > > > > > this has probably been covered before, but does anyone know if the 3.5.x > > > > CD's will be part of the subscription releases or will 4.1 be the only > > > > one? > > > > > > 3.5 will not be part of the subscription. IIRC, the 3.5 disks almost > > > got cancled, but there turned out to be sufficient demand. > > > > What was the reasoning for its exclusion? > > If you mean the exclusion of 3.5 from the subscription, it was because > 4.0 has generally been such a good release and 3.5 is such a non-entity > relative to 3.4 that it was felt that most people wouldn't want it. Or > at least, that's my understanding. Fair enough. Just the same, though, I'll be ordering 3.5 sets when they're released. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 8:43:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B04F37B5CD for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13H6rE-0006T4-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:43:00 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA30210 for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:43:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:43:00 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: getopt macro? Message-ID: <20000725164259.A30154@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org does anyone know where imight find the old 'getopt' macro that looked like it could have won the obfuscated C code contest all by itself? jm -- ---------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks, it needed to be replaced anyway. ---------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 8:47:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from icicle.winternet.com (icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE1237B5CD for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:47:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com) Received: from tundra.winternet.com (nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11]) by icicle.winternet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3mc) with ESMTP id KAA05869; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:47:28 -0500 (CDT) SMTP "HELO" (ESMTP) greeting from tundra.winternet.com But _really_ from :: nrahlstr@tundra.winternet.com [198.174.169.11] SMTP "MAIL From" = nrahlstr@mail.winternet.com (Nathan Ahlstrom) SMTP "RCPT To" = Received: (from nrahlstr@localhost) by tundra.winternet.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA08712; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:47:28 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:47:27 -0500 From: Nathan Ahlstrom To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt macro? Message-ID: <20000725104727.E8278@winternet.com> Mail-Followup-To: j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20000725164259.A30154@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000725164259.A30154@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 04:43:00PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org /usr/src/usr.bin/chat/chat.c j mckitrick wrote: > > does anyone know where imight find the old 'getopt' macro that looked like > it could have won the obfuscated C code contest all by itself? > > jm > -- > ---------------------------------------------- > Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org > If it doesn't fit, force it. > If it breaks, it needed to be replaced anyway. > ---------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Nathan Ahlstrom FreeBSD: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ nrahlstr@winternet.com PGP Key ID: 0x67BC9D19 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 8:56:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF21937B615 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:56:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13H74L-0006eK-00 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:56:33 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA30336 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:56:33 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:56:33 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getopt macro? Message-ID: <20000725165633.C30154@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000725164259.A30154@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000725104727.E8278@winternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000725104727.E8278@winternet.com>; from nrahlstr@winternet.com on Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 10:47:27AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 10:47:27AM -0500, Nathan Ahlstrom wrote: > > /usr/src/usr.bin/chat/chat.c That's the one! Thanks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 21:18:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pike.osd.bsdi.com (pike.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5DE37BDD4; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:18:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@pike.osd.bsdi.com) Received: (from jhb@localhost) by pike.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24747; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:18:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb) From: John Baldwin Message-Id: <200007260418.VAA24747@pike.osd.bsdi.com> Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/lang/pm3-base Makefile In-Reply-To: <200007260340.UAA36288@freefall.freebsd.org> from John Polstra at "Jul 25, 2000 08:40:51 pm" To: John Polstra Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 21:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Polstra wrote: > jdp 2000/07/25 20:40:50 PDT > > Modified files: > lang/pm3-base Makefile > lang/pm3-base/files md5 > lang/pm3-base/patches patch-dy > lang/pm3-forms Makefile > lang/pm3-gui Makefile > lang/pm3-m3tk Makefile > lang/pm3-net Makefile > lang/pm3-netobj Makefile > Removed files: [ big list of files snipped ] > Log: > Upgrade to pm3-1.1.14. This eliminates 103 patch files. :-) Hmm, do we have a Most Patch Files Killed by an Upgrade Award? :) -- John Baldwin -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jobaldwi/pgpkey.asc "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 23:29:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE2737B563 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:29:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@nwlink.com) Received: from utah (jcwells@utah.nwlink.com [209.20.130.41]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA19326 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:41:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jcwells@utah To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have been conceiving a model of a motor vehicle in my head. Kinematics calculations are no fun. I am loathe to do many calculations when I can let a computer do them for me. I have looked at oodles of different "this vs that" language comparos on the net. What I really need is symbolic math functionality. Mathematica can do this for me. I desire to write a stand alone program. I was hoping to find a language that can give me symbolic math functionality along with integration and differentiation. The coolest would be to find something that does math as slick as PHP does HTML. I am thinking of going with C or perhaps Ada, primarily because C works with Tcl and Ada is used for missile guidance systems which are heavily kinematic. If someone out there can tell me of a language I can use that can do what I need more easily, I would love to hear your suggestions. The big criteria is, "Does the language make mathematical modeling easy?" I figure there just has to be something out there that does mathematical modeling. I just haven't found it yet. Thank you, Jason C. Wells To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 23:39: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from norn.ca.eu.org (24.64.235.244.ab.wave.home.com [24.64.235.244]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D0B37BE34 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:39:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cpiazza@norn.ca.eu.org) Received: by norn.ca.eu.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 55B7DAC; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:39:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:39:01 -0600 From: Chris Piazza To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Quiet cpu fans Message-ID: <20000726003901.C4582@norn.ca.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i-jp0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I wasn't really sure where to post this so I figured chat would be safe. I'm looking for suggestions on where to get extremely quiet CPU fans. I'm not really worried too much about the price as long as shipping to Canada isn't going to kill me. The fans that are in my (dual cpu, celeron) system are slowly driving me insane... Thanks for any help, -Chris -- cpiazza@jaxon.net | yawn..... cpiazza@FreeBSD.org | Calgary, AB, Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 23:46:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D57B37B697 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cjc@pool0327.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net) Received: from pool0327.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (pool0327.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.251.72]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03019; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by pool0327.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01106; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:44:53 -0700 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Message-ID: <20000725234453.C307@pool0460.cvx20-bradley.dialup.e> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from jcwells@nwlink.com on Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 11:41:36PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 11:41:36PM -0700, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I have been conceiving a model of a motor vehicle in my head. Kinematics > calculations are no fun. I am loathe to do many calculations when I can > let a computer do them for me. > > I have looked at oodles of different "this vs that" language comparos on > the net. What I really need is symbolic math functionality. > Mathematica can do this for me. I desire to write a stand alone > program. > > I was hoping to find a language that can give me symbolic math > functionality along with integration and differentiation. The coolest > would be to find something that does math as slick as PHP does HTML. > > I am thinking of going with C or perhaps Ada, primarily because C works > with Tcl and Ada is used for missile guidance systems which are heavily > kinematic. > > If someone out there can tell me of a language I can use that can do what > I need more easily, I would love to hear your suggestions. The big > criteria is, "Does the language make mathematical modeling easy?" > > I figure there just has to be something out there that does mathematical > modeling. I just haven't found it yet. It's what FORTRAN (FORmula TRANslation) was made for. Just in case -> ;) -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 25 23:58:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (rly-ip01.mx.aol.com [205.188.156.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A84B37BA32 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:58:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nathanw@nils.lib.il.us) Received: from tot-mtc-td.proxy.aol.com (tot-mtc-td.proxy.aol.com [64.12.104.131]) by rly-ip01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id CAA09123; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nathan (AC84E98F.ipt.aol.com [172.132.233.143]) by tot-mtc-td.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id e6Q6wV329294; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003301bff6ce$f26d2bc0$010000ac@nathan> From: "Nathan Williams" To: "Chris Piazza" , References: <20000726003901.C4582@norn.ca.eu.org> Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:58:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Apparently-From: WilliamsN1978@aol.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't have any personal reccomendations, but you may want to check here first: http://www.2cooltek.com Nathan ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Piazza To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 1:39 AM Subject: Quiet cpu fans > Hi, > > I wasn't really sure where to post this so I figured chat would be safe. > > I'm looking for suggestions on where to get extremely quiet CPU fans. > I'm not really worried too much about the price as long as shipping > to Canada isn't going to kill me. > > The fans that are in my (dual cpu, celeron) system are slowly driving > me insane... > > Thanks for any help, > -Chris > -- > cpiazza@jaxon.net | yawn..... > cpiazza@FreeBSD.org | Calgary, AB, Canada > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 2:24:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7EA4537BE77 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:24:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 86962 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2000 09:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 26 Jul 2000 09:24:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 6344 invoked by uid 211); 26 Jul 2000 09:24:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:54:02 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Message-ID: <20000726145402.B6311@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from jcwells@nwlink.com on Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 11:41:36PM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jason C. Wells said on Jul 25, 2000 at 23:41:36: > I have been conceiving a model of a motor vehicle in my head. Kinematics > calculations are no fun. I am loathe to do many calculations when I can > let a computer do them for me. > > I have looked at oodles of different "this vs that" language comparos on > the net. What I really need is symbolic math functionality. > Mathematica can do this for me. I desire to write a stand alone > program. > > I was hoping to find a language that can give me symbolic math > functionality along with integration and differentiation. The coolest > would be to find something that does math as slick as PHP does HTML. > > I am thinking of going with C or perhaps Ada, primarily because C works > with Tcl and Ada is used for missile guidance systems which are heavily > kinematic. > > If someone out there can tell me of a language I can use that can do what > I need more easily, I would love to hear your suggestions. The big > criteria is, "Does the language make mathematical modeling easy?" > > I figure there just has to be something out there that does mathematical > modeling. I just haven't found it yet. If you want something that does symbolic manipulation like Mathematica, I don't think it exists. If you write something like that, I'm definitely interested :-) There's a slashdot thread on free symbolic packages which someone pointed out to me once, it's a bit old though: http://slashdot.org/askslashdot/00/02/27/1343255.shtml There's also a recent thing called Kalamaris, still in development, requires KDE2 to compile; I have no idea how usable that is. http://www.arrakis.es/~rlarrosa/kalamaris.html Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 4:14:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ctimail3.com (main1.my3mail.com [203.80.96.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DE237BE4B for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:14:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from July3@wsi-hk.com) Received: from oemcomputer27 (207user29.ctimail3.com [203.80.207.29]) by mail.ctimail3.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02269 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:14:57 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <200007261114.TAA02269@mail.ctimail3.com> From: "Peter Forsythe" To: "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:11:04 +0800 Subject: Workplace English and Summer Specials Reply-To: July3@wsi-hk.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [This email is an update of Hong Kong government's Workplace English Campaign, and of Wall Street Institute English specials for July. If you wish to be removed, or are not in Hong Kong, please click on remove@wsi-hk.com]. The Workplace English Campaign of the Hong Kong government is now in Phase II -- which is significantly more flexible than Phase I, including funding up to $HK4,500. We at Wall Street Institute have assisted over 500 individual applications. Please contact us if you would like to know how you or your colleagues benefit from this program -- 2575 6888. SUMMER SPECIALS: Those enrolling in July are eligible for THREE FREE MONTHS of English learning. Anyone enrolling in July can also take part in a draw to win a TWO WEEK TRIP to Toronto, Sydney or London, including accommodation. Phone us for more details (2575 6888) or fill in the form below and fax or email by return. Looking forward to hearing from you. Peter Forsythe Fax form to 2575 1999 or email to July@wsi-hk.com: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Please send me more information on WEC and Summer Specials: Name _____________________________ Address___________________________ Phone_____________________________ Fax_______________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------ (For remove, put "remove" in subject line or click on remove@wsi-hk.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 8:26:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48AE237B551 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:26:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13999; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:26:33 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Chris Piazza Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans Message-ID: <20000726082633.A12203@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <20000726003901.C4582@norn.ca.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: <20000726003901.C4582@norn.ca.eu.org>; from cpiazza@jaxon.net on Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 12:39:01AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 12:39:01AM -0600, Chris Piazza wrote: > I wasn't really sure where to post this so I figured chat would be safe. > > I'm looking for suggestions on where to get extremely quiet CPU fans. > I'm not really worried too much about the price as long as shipping > to Canada isn't going to kill me. > > The fans that are in my (dual cpu, celeron) system are slowly driving > me insane... PC Power and Cooling (www.pcpowercooling.com) sells very quiet fans. I can hardly tell the system I built entierly with their fans is on. The powersupply and all the case fans are from the Silencer line. I just noticed they have added a 400W PS to the silencer line so they should even work with dual cpu/athlon systems. If noise is bothering you, I suggent you might try replacing all the fans (ps included). I did that on two boxes and my office in _much_ quieter. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 8:35:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13CE737BACA for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:35:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA53027; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:35:09 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:35:08 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Chris Piazza Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans In-Reply-To: <20000726003901.C4582@norn.ca.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Chris Piazza wrote: :Hi, : :I wasn't really sure where to post this so I figured chat would be safe. : :I'm looking for suggestions on where to get extremely quiet CPU fans. :I'm not really worried too much about the price as long as shipping :to Canada isn't going to kill me. : :The fans that are in my (dual cpu, celeron) system are slowly driving :me insane... You could by a MacCube, and work on the PPC port... My solution at home was to have a diskless 486, only needs a power supply fan, on my desk, and the real machine in another room. It died, so I have the dual CPU box on the desk at home, with two cpu fans, a powersupply fan, a case fan, a fan in an ISA slot, and a fan on a disk drive, fans in the external disk box, CDR, and tape drives. It drives me absolutely nuts. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 10:10:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20C937BB5E for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:10:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@nwlink.com) Received: from utah (jcwells@utah.nwlink.com [209.20.130.41]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21048; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:21:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jcwells@utah To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System In-Reply-To: <20000725234453.C307@pool0460.cvx20-bradley.dialup.e> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: > It's what FORTRAN (FORmula TRANslation) was made for. Ughh! I haven't heard much good about Fortran. To be fair, I have never looked at it. I hear that the syntax is _very_ terse. I will take a closer look at it. ;) back at ya! :) Thank you, Jason C. Wells To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 10:21:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.skynet.be (trinity.skynet.be [195.238.2.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56CEF37B713 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.1.121] (brad.techos.skynet.be [195.238.1.121]) by trinity.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A01D181D5; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:21:06 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:20:38 +0200 To: "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:21 AM -0700 2000/7/26, Jason C. Wells wrote: > Ughh! I haven't heard much good about Fortran. To be fair, I have never > looked at it. I hear that the syntax is _very_ terse. I will take a closer > look at it. Note that Perl has some libraries for doing mathematical operations on arbitrarily large floating point and integer objects. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were higher-level libraries for doing integrations and other higher-level operations. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 10:29:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27AFE37BF00 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:29:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@nwlink.com) Received: from utah (jcwells@utah.nwlink.com [209.20.130.41]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25488; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:41:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jcwells@utah To: Brad Knowles Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Brad Knowles wrote: > Note that Perl has some libraries for doing mathematical > operations on arbitrarily large floating point and integer objects. > I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were higher-level libraries > for doing integrations and other higher-level operations. This reminds that I can surf Freshmeat to find something. Perhaps I can find some libraries that will suit my needs. Thank you, Jason C. Wells To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 11: 0:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ptd.net (mail1.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C740E37B759 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tms2@mail.ptd.net) Received: (qmail 16713 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2000 18:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.ptd.net) (204.186.33.237) by mail.ptd.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 2000 18:00:16 -0000 Message-ID: <397F2708.124ADBD4@mail.ptd.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:59:36 -0400 From: "Thomas M. Sommers" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > I have been conceiving a model of a motor vehicle in my head. Kinematics > calculations are no fun. I am loathe to do many calculations when I can > let a computer do them for me. > > I have looked at oodles of different "this vs that" language comparos on > the net. What I really need is symbolic math functionality. > Mathematica can do this for me. I desire to write a stand alone > program. > > I was hoping to find a language that can give me symbolic math > functionality along with integration and differentiation. The coolest > would be to find something that does math as slick as PHP does HTML. > > I am thinking of going with C or perhaps Ada, primarily because C works > with Tcl and Ada is used for missile guidance systems which are heavily > kinematic. > > If someone out there can tell me of a language I can use that can do what > I need more easily, I would love to hear your suggestions. The big > criteria is, "Does the language make mathematical modeling easy?" You might try Maxima, a Macsyma clone: http://www.ma.utexas.edu/users/wfs/maxima.html -- I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. -- Lady Bracknell To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 13:41:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nisser.com (c1870039.telekabel.chello.nl [212.187.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37AA237BE2F for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:41:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Received: from nisser.com (roelof [10.0.0.2]) by nisser.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA92614; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:41:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Message-ID: <397F4DDC.9A5A4D6F@nisser.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:45:16 +0200 From: Roelof Osinga Organization: eboa - engineering buro Office Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > > It's what FORTRAN (FORmula TRANslation) was made for. > > Ughh! I haven't heard much good about Fortran. To be fair, I have never > looked at it. I hear that the syntax is _very_ terse. I will take a closer > look at it. Nope. That would be APL. Nothing wrong with Fortran. The versions after IV are quite nice, actually. At least, from what I've seen and read about them. Haven't used Fortran after IV. The GNU has a F77 translator. Turns F77 into C. But something like MathCalc would probably be more efficient. Especially when there are lots of models available. Roelof -- Home is where the (@) http://eboa.com/ is. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 16:33:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bne003m.webcentral.com.au (horizon3.webcentral.com.au [202.139.235.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C99537B723 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18736 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2000 23:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO timberwolf) (203.147.165.163) by horizon3.webcentral.com.au with SMTP; 26 Jul 2000 23:33:00 -0000 Message-ID: <002301bff7ea$64fa5ac0$a3a593cb@timberwolf> From: "Haikal Saadh" To: References: <20000726003901.C4582@norn.ca.eu.org> Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:47:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 While were on this topic, I'd also like to ask: Is it necessary to use thermal grease when attaching a heatsink on nowdays? I'm getting an athlon, with some dual fan/heatsink clip on combo. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Piazza" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 11:39 PM Subject: Quiet cpu fans > Hi, > > I wasn't really sure where to post this so I figured chat would be > safe. > > I'm looking for suggestions on where to get extremely quiet CPU > fans. I'm not really worried too much about the price as long as > shipping to Canada isn't going to kill me. > > The fans that are in my (dual cpu, celeron) system are slowly > driving me insane... > > Thanks for any help, > -Chris > -- > cpiazza@jaxon.net | yawn..... > cpiazza@FreeBSD.org | Calgary, AB, Canada > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBOYBnr2Dp/0spTtEtEQJ+ZwCcCEpFqvLlbFPSNs5FVsdqN7FFTOsAoJ80 QlTB88Xso+dvw4EcCRUOlJAV =1Aok -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 16:51:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8572A37B54B for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Received: from localhost (lplist@localhost) by q.closedsrc.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e6QNpQm09297; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@q.closedsrc.org) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: Haikal Saadh Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans In-Reply-To: <002301bff7ea$64fa5ac0$a3a593cb@timberwolf> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Haikal Saadh wrote: > While were on this topic, I'd also like to ask: > > Is it necessary to use thermal grease when attaching a heatsink on > nowdays? It is highly recommended that you put some thermal grease between the CPU and the heatsink surface. The thermal grease helps increase the heat transfer between the two surfaces but closing any gaps and my slightly increasing the surface area. Just don't use too much. // Linh Pham // http://closedsrc.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 17:30:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E208F37B543 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:30:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-71-134.dialup.hiwaay.net [216.180.71.134]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e6R0UGj13811 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:30:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16722 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:30:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <200007270030.TAA16722@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans In-reply-to: Message from Linh Pham of "Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:51:26 PDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:30:13 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Linh Pham writes: > On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Haikal Saadh wrote: > > > While were on this topic, I'd also like to ask: > > > > Is it necessary to use thermal grease when attaching a heatsink on > > nowdays? > > It is highly recommended that you put some thermal grease between the CPU > and the heatsink surface. The thermal grease helps increase the heat > transfer between the two surfaces but closing any gaps and my slightly > increasing the surface area. > > Just don't use too much. Correct. Remember that "thermal grease" is not a great conductor of heat. The only reason you use it is that its better than air gaps. So put the thermal grease on as lightly as you can and still "wet" both the CPU and the heatsink. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 17:31: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6405537B7C2 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Received: from Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (spaz.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.31]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12209; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:03:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA55030; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:29:48 GMT (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:29:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby X-Sender: kris@spaz.huntsvilleal.com To: David Scheidt Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, David Scheidt wrote: > My solution at home was to have a diskless 486, only needs a power supply fan, on my > desk, and the real machine in another room. It died, so I have the dual CPU > box on the desk at home, with two cpu fans, a powersupply fan, a case fan, a > fan in an ISA slot, and a fan on a disk drive, fans in the external disk > box, CDR, and tape drives. It drives me absolutely nuts. Turn up your music or start wearing earplugs. I actually take advantage of the noise though. Most of my machines do not have power LEDs because I've cut the connectors down the middle and use them for SCSI. (These machines are also equip'd with IDE, which is used, or a second SCSI card.) Besides, real machines don't need idiot light, because they are never off. ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 20:56: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7107937C02D for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:55:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07788; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000726195620.04ab6ee0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:05:02 -0600 To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, "Jason C. Wells" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000725234453.C307@pool0460.cvx20-bradley.dialup.e> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:44 AM 7/26/2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: >> I figure there just has to be something out there that does mathematical >> modeling. I just haven't found it yet. > >It's what FORTRAN (FORmula TRANslation) was made for. No; despite the name, FORTRAN is very much a general-purpose computing language. It has only one possible advantage in a mathematical modeling setting: because of its long use in scientific and engineering work, FORTRAN compilers traditionally perform extensive optmization on floating point calculations. The strength reduction, expression rearrangement, loop unrolling, and parallelization facilities in a good FORTRAN compiler are second to none. However, with today's fast PCs, these optimizations aren't necessary unless you're doing VERY complex modeling -- stuff like fluid dynamics. And since FORTRAN is rather primitive, you'll spend a lot more time coding than you would if you had a better tool for this particular task. One package you might consider is Mathematica. It has wonderful facilities for integration, differentiation, graphics, and more. It's what I'd reach for first -- partially because I know it, but mostly because it makes sophisticated tasks easy and fun. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 22:25:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.ptd.net (mail1.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7091737B7A7 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:25:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tms2@mail.ptd.net) Received: (qmail 11367 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2000 05:26:02 -0000 Received: from du06.cli.ptd.net (HELO mail.ptd.net) (204.186.33.6) by mail.ptd.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 2000 05:26:02 -0000 Message-ID: <397FC7C8.D1C7BBD9@mail.ptd.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:25:28 -0400 From: "Thomas M. Sommers" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, "Jason C. Wells" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000726195620.04ab6ee0@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > > At 12:44 AM 7/26/2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > >> I figure there just has to be something out there that does mathematical > >> modeling. I just haven't found it yet. > > > >It's what FORTRAN (FORmula TRANslation) was made for. > > No; despite the name, FORTRAN is very much a general-purpose computing > language. It has only one possible advantage in a mathematical > modeling setting: because of its long use in scientific and engineering > work, FORTRAN compilers traditionally perform extensive optmization on > floating point calculations. The strength reduction, expression > rearrangement, loop unrolling, and parallelization facilities in a > good FORTRAN compiler are second to none. However, with today's fast > PCs, these optimizations aren't necessary unless you're doing VERY > complex modeling -- stuff like fluid dynamics. And since FORTRAN is > rather primitive, you'll spend a lot more time coding than you would > if you had a better tool for this particular task. It also has a builtin complex type, and common math operations such as exponentiation and trig functions are also builtin, and so don't incur function call overhead. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 22:55:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B7A837B91A for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:55:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 90833 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2000 05:55:48 -0000 Received: from theory8.physics.iisc.ernet.in (144.16.71.128) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 27 Jul 2000 05:55:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 7581 invoked by uid 211); 27 Jul 2000 05:55:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:25:45 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Roelof Osinga Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Message-ID: <20000727112544.B7570@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <397F4DDC.9A5A4D6F@nisser.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <397F4DDC.9A5A4D6F@nisser.com>; from roelof@nisser.com on Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 10:45:16PM +0200 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.32 i486 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Roelof Osinga said on Jul 26, 2000 at 22:45:16: > Nope. That would be APL. Nothing wrong with Fortran. The versions > after IV are quite nice, actually. At least, from what I've seen and > read about them. Haven't used Fortran after IV. The GNU has a > F77 translator. Turns F77 into C. You're probably talking about f2c. Actually, they have a g77 compiler (bundled with egcs and gcc 2.95), which uses the gcc compiler back-end but doesn't do any intermediate translation to c. It seems to produce faster results than f2c. But it's not great, I think it's slower than the gcc C compiler. If you have access to an alpha, Compaq's (originally Digital) fortran for alpha/linux compiler is available as a free download; I don't know whether it works on FreeBSD. It's supposed to be about the best Fortran compiler around. But I don't think fortran is any help at all for symbolic manipulation, which I thought was your original requirement. It's certainly used a lot for numbercrunching. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 23:12:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C3137BA0B for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:12:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcwells@nwlink.com) Received: from utah (jcwells@utah.nwlink.com [209.20.130.41]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA04240; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:22:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jcwells@utah To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Roelof Osinga , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System In-Reply-To: <20000727112544.B7570@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > But I don't think fortran is any help at all for symbolic > manipulation, which I thought was your original requirement. It's > certainly used a lot for numbercrunching. I guess it depends on how I want my code to work. It would be nice to layout a couple of underlying diff eqs and then solve or integrate those expressions as needed. On the other hand, I can just manually write out all of the functions I need without using some higher level library. The first method seems slicker. The latter method might be more likely to get done. For any of you following this thread, I did find ccmath which is a math library in C which claims to do some of the things I need. I may make a port (if it builds cleanly) it just for the heck of it. Thanks to all for your help. Its a big, big internet out there. Your help has narrowed it down some. Thank you, Jason C. Wells To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 26 23:23:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02C9837C022 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:23:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 91502 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2000 06:23:16 -0000 Received: from theory8.physics.iisc.ernet.in (144.16.71.128) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 27 Jul 2000 06:23:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 7640 invoked by uid 211); 27 Jul 2000 06:23:14 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:53:14 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: Roelof Osinga , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Message-ID: <20000727115314.F7570@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000727112544.B7570@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from jcwells@nwlink.com on Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 11:22:43PM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.32 i486 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > But I don't think fortran is any help at all for symbolic > > manipulation, which I thought was your original requirement. It's > > certainly used a lot for numbercrunching. > > I guess it depends on how I want my code to work. It would be nice to > layout a couple of underlying diff eqs and then solve or integrate those > expressions as needed. > > On the other hand, I can just manually write out all of the functions I > need without using some higher level library. The first method seems > slicker. The latter method might be more likely to get done. The second would also probably be much faster (for the computer), though less flexible. If speed isn't terribly important, I'd suggest something like octave or scilab (both matlab clones). They're very fast to code in and handle arrays and matrices nicely, which is useful for discretising diff equations. Only numerical stuff, however, no symbolic manipulation. If speed is important, Fortran or C would be the best bet, I think. There are plenty of canned integrators available for both, but for Fortran especially. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 1:15:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ducky.nz.freebsd.org (chilled.unixathome.org [203.79.82.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF4E537B80C for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.int.nz.freebsd.org [192.168.0.99]) by ducky.nz.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23042 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:15:19 +1200 (NZST) From: "Dan Langille" Organization: langille.org To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:15:16 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: register now, pay later, for a domain? Reply-To: dan@langille.org Message-ID: <39809854.4371.22E5CDD8@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know a domain registrar where I can register the domain now and pay later? I've tried joker.com, networksolutions, http://www.internetdomain.com/, http://www.1domains.net, no luck. cheers. -- Dan Langille [I'm looking for more work] The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.freebsddiary.org/ FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 3:29:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7C337C0B7; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 03:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 13HkuN-000DTw-00; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:28:55 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:28:55 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: janet@sanbi.ac.za Subject: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego Message-ID: <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Damn, I should've posted this earlier! The Bioinformatics Open Source Conference (BOSC - previously BioPerl) takes place in San Diego on 17-18 August. Unfortunately registration has already closed - hence my lament that I forgot to post earlier! See: http://ismb00.sdsc.edu/bosc2000/ I will be attending with others from my company and our associated academic institute (http://www.sanbi.ac.za/). Some background as to why this is something FreeBSD users might want to take note of (long - you may skip to summary at the end): You've probably all read the media reports about the completion of a first draft sequence of the human genome last month: http://www.sanger.ac.uk/HGP/draft2000/ Contrary to what the press hullabaloo might have suggested, this wasn't an end - it was a beginning. We haven't found the "source code" for the human species - we found the binary image in memory. Our task over the next few years (decades?) will be to disassemble that binary and get back to fully commented source code in a high level language. Calling this "difficult" may be the understatement of the new millennium. The science that is attempting this task is known as Bioinformatics. It is a already the focus of dozens of elite academic establishments around the world, and forms the backbone of a nascent multi-billion dollar industry. It is where computer science meets the biosciences - in fact, bioinformatics research requires massive amounts of processing power, and some of the bigger supercomputers in the world are dedicated to it. In terms of human scientific progress, this may well be "where it's at" for the next decade or so. Coming to this field from a commercial internet environment that would be familiar to many of you, where I too constantly fought the good fight against the hordes of Microsoft, I was amazed and not a little flabbergasted to find that here, Unix is the _only_ game in town. Literally. A bioinformatics application that runs on Windows? Never heard of one. You'd be ostracised for even suggesting it. Most bioinformatics applications are huge, monolithic, archaic, incredibly expensive and run on equally expensive commercial Unix boxes. SGI, Sun and Compaq all play big roles on the hardware side of things. They support the academic institutes with hardware, which means research crystallises into software that runs on their operating systems, which means they can move truckloads of boxes to big pharmaceuticals. As you might guess, a few insidious individuals down in the trenches have been saying, "Hey, this sucks. Look at those internet blokes developing all their software collaboratively and giving it away. We can do the same." And so a number of open source initiatives in the field of bioinformatics have been established, though most of them are still very young and immature. You can get some feel for the role of open source in bioinformatics by reading Lincoln Stein's article about "How Perl saved the Human Genome Project" here: http://www.bioperl.org/GetStarted/tpj_ls_bio.html Or see Ewan Birney's plea to help "Hack the Genome" on advogato: http://advogato.org/article/131.html Some of these projects - all of which will be the subjects of presentations at BOSC2000 - are: The Bio* projects - Bioperl, BioPython, BioJava, BioXML, BioCorba - they all have .org domains; you can guess the URLs. These tools all aim at providing the basic building blocks for developing bioinformatics applications in their respective environments. And there's a lot of cross-pollination going on too. Ensembl is a fully open source gene annotation pipeline. That'll take too long to explain, but you can find out a lot more on their site: http://www.ensembl.org/ DAS, the distributed annotation system, may be one of the killer apps of the field. You can find out more here... http://www.genetics.wustl.edu/eddy/people/robin/das And read the interesting Wired article about how DAS means gene research meets Napster, Gnutella and Freenet here: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,35404,00.html?tw=wn20000405 Oh, and Tim O'Reilly will provide a token presence from the open source side of things by delivering one of the keynotes. Right, this is turning into an article, but let me continue. Where does FreeBSD fit in? Unfortunately, nowhere yet. As more and more effort is put into open source bioinformatics, the word on everybody's lips is, of course, "Linux". Since this is an area where massive amounts of processing power is the norm, another word that has been bandied about is "Beowulf". However, the field is rooted in commercial Unix, and you can get a feel for some of the Linux vs. Unix debate from these pages: http://www.portlandpress.com/biochemist/cyber/0006/default.htm http://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/personal/rpg/CB/Linux.html They detail a specific lab's decision-making process. Eventually the lab went for an Alphaserver over a couple of Linux boxes, _mostly_ because of Linux's 2GB file size limit. Erk. As a FreeBSD user in bioinformatics, I see two obvious tasks ahead of me (when I can find the time between the myriad other things on my plate): - Educating the FreeBSD community about bioinformatics. - Educating the bioinformatics community about FreeBSD. In summary: Bioinformatics is a 100% Unix-dominated field - one of the few remaining. It is about to become a Very Big Thing indeed. Unless I (and others in my position) do some advocacy of FreeBSD as a stable, secure, standard platform, it is likely to be a Linux-dominated field a few years from now. I've started working on ports of some bioinformatics tools and will submit them in due course. I'd also like to provide some feedback after BOSC if anyone is interested. (Maybe I could get Daemon News interested?) -- Johann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 4: 1:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.osd.bsdi.com (zippy.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5190F37B62C; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:01:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03226; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:01:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) To: Johann Visagie Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, janet@sanbi.ac.za Subject: Re: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:28:55 +0200." <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:01:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3223.964695677@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Damn, I should've posted this earlier! > > The Bioinformatics Open Source Conference (BOSC - previously BioPerl) takes > place in San Diego on 17-18 August. Unfortunately registration has already > closed - hence my lament that I forgot to post earlier! See: > http://ismb00.sdsc.edu/bosc2000/ This looks very interesting - thank you also for the synopsis of Bioinformatics for us Bio-newbies here. :) I've contacted the organizers (cc'ing you) and offered them some free FreeBSD CDs if they'd like to make them available to attendees. We can only hope they'll take me up on it. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 4:32:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC3537B608; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 13Hltu-000B3R-00; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:32:30 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:32:28 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, janet@sanbi.ac.za Subject: Re: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego Message-ID: <20000727133228.A41231@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za> <3223.964695677@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3223.964695677@localhost>; from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:01:17AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard on 2000-07-27 (Thu) at 04:01:17 -0700: > > > The Bioinformatics Open Source Conference (BOSC - previously BioPerl) takes > > place in San Diego on 17-18 August. Unfortunately registration has already > > closed - hence my lament that I forgot to post earlier! See: > > http://ismb00.sdsc.edu/bosc2000/ > > This looks very interesting - thank you also for the synopsis of > Bioinformatics for us Bio-newbies here. :) :-) > I've contacted the organizers (cc'ing you) and offered them some free > FreeBSD CDs if they'd like to make them available to attendees. We > can only hope they'll take me up on it. Let me know if there is anything I can do (besides wearing my T-shirt :-) I will be attending both BOSC and its parent conference, Intelligent Systems for Molecular Biology (~770 attendees), with a delegation from the South African National Bioinformatics Institute. There will be at least two avid FreeBSD users in our ranks - myself included. Should the BOSC organisers not reply (and I don't see why they wouldn't) we could possibly hand out material on a more casual basis? -- Johann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 4:42:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.osd.bsdi.com (zippy.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E818C37B669; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:42:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.osd.bsdi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03377; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:42:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com) To: Johann Visagie Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, janet@sanbi.ac.za Subject: Re: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:32:28 +0200." <20000727133228.A41231@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 04:42:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3374.964698160@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Should the BOSC organisers not reply (and I don't see why they wouldn't) we > could possibly hand out material on a more casual basis? Very possibly, though you coming from .za means I'd have to ship the boxes somewhere near the conference and have you guys pick them up somehow once you entered the country - could be problematic. :) Let's hope we can do this more officially through the organizers (of both events?) for that reason alone. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 5: 2: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125FB37B7BC; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:01:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 13HmMB-000NK7-00; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:01:43 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:01:43 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: janet@sanbi.ac.za, advocacy@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego Message-ID: <20000727140143.B41231@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <20000727133228.A41231@fling.sanbi.ac.za> <3374.964698160@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3374.964698160@localhost>; from jkh@zippy.osd.bsdi.com on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:42:40AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard on 2000-07-27 (Thu) at 04:42:40 -0700: > > > Should the BOSC organisers not reply (and I don't see why they wouldn't) we > > could possibly hand out material on a more casual basis? > > Very possibly, though you coming from .za means I'd have to ship the > boxes somewhere near the conference and have you guys pick them up > somehow once you entered the country - could be problematic. :) Not necessarily - the director of our institute will be staying in San Diego with a personal friend, and I'm sure that if necessary, said friend could accept a package on our behalf. > Let's hope we can do this more officially through the organizers (of both > events?) for that reason alone. That's still preferable, certainly. :-) BTW, the main ISMB conference is a different kettle of fish compared to BOSC. It is _the_ premier annual event in computational biology. It has an attached exhibition where many of the big name commercial Unix vendors will be hosting booths this year. More info at: http://ismb00.sdsc.edu/ http://ismb00.sdsc.edu/exhibitor.html -- Johann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 5: 8:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D96637B79A; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:08:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA93135; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:08:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:08:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Roelof Osinga , "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System In-Reply-To: <20000727112544.B7570@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > alpha/linux compiler is available as a free download; I don't know > whether it works on FreeBSD. It's supposed to be about the best There's a good chance it will run under FreeBSD OSF/1ulator :-) Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 5:10:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A70937B79A; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA93252; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:10:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:10:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , Roelof Osinga , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I guess it depends on how I want my code to work. It would be nice to > layout a couple of underlying diff eqs and then solve or integrate those > expressions as needed. You may have better luck manipulating these using mathematica and then evaluating the results numerically in Fortran, for length calculations. Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 5:20:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A44F37C135 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:20:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 92860 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2000 12:19:58 -0000 Received: from sys3.physics.iisc.ernet.in (144.16.71.27) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 27 Jul 2000 12:19:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 8175 invoked by uid 211); 27 Jul 2000 12:19:55 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:49:55 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Roelof Osinga , "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Message-ID: <20000727174955.A8139@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000727112544.B7570@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from kris@FreeBSD.org on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 05:08:39AM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.31 i486 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway said on Jul 27, 2000 at 05:08:39: > On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > alpha/linux compiler is available as a free download; I don't know > > whether it works on FreeBSD. It's supposed to be about the best > > There's a good chance it will run under FreeBSD OSF/1ulator :-) I don't know about that: linux alpha binaries don't normally seem to run on OSF/1. Perhaps static binaries of Fortran code will, but I doubt the Fortran compiler itself will. (The C binaries use the GNU C library, even if compiled with the Compaq compiler.) And I don't think the OSF/1 (Tru64) Fortran compiler is freely downloadable. Does FreeBSD/alpha have a linuxulator? If so, that may be a better route. I think I read that Compaq had made a FreeBSD alpha machine available for "testdriving" together with several linux machines. Maybe a native FreeBSD Fortran compiler would also be possible, if there's enough interest? Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 5:24:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2047C37C11B; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:24:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA94621; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:24:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:24:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Roelof Osinga , "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System In-Reply-To: <20000727174955.A8139@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > There's a good chance it will run under FreeBSD OSF/1ulator :-) > > I don't know about that: linux alpha binaries don't normally seem to > run on OSF/1. Perhaps static binaries of Fortran code will, but I > doubt the Fortran compiler itself will. (The C binaries use the GNU C > library, even if compiled with the Compaq compiler.) And I don't > think the OSF/1 (Tru64) Fortran compiler is freely downloadable. Does > FreeBSD/alpha have a linuxulator? If so, that may be a better route. Nope, although the FreeBSD OSF/1ulator is advanced enough to run the OSF/1 (dynamic) netscape binary. I'm sure problem reports with other apps would be welcomed. Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 5:57:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51D5337B650 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 05:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 92955 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2000 12:57:08 -0000 Received: from sys3.physics.iisc.ernet.in (144.16.71.27) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 27 Jul 2000 12:57:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 8405 invoked by uid 211); 27 Jul 2000 12:57:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:27:05 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Roelof Osinga , "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Message-ID: <20000727182705.A8368@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000727174955.A8139@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from kris@FreeBSD.org on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 05:24:52AM -0700 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.31 i486 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway said on Jul 27, 2000 at 05:24:52: > On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > > There's a good chance it will run under FreeBSD OSF/1ulator :-) > > > > I don't know about that: linux alpha binaries don't normally seem to > > run on OSF/1. Perhaps static binaries of Fortran code will, but I > > doubt the Fortran compiler itself will. (The C binaries use the GNU C > > library, even if compiled with the Compaq compiler.) And I don't > > think the OSF/1 (Tru64) Fortran compiler is freely downloadable. Does > > FreeBSD/alpha have a linuxulator? If so, that may be a better route. > > Nope, although the FreeBSD OSF/1ulator is advanced enough to run the OSF/1 > (dynamic) netscape binary. I'm sure problem reports with other apps would > be welcomed. FWIW, running OSF/1 binaries (including the dynamic netscape binary) on linux/alpha doesn't seem to involve any special kernel options or modules -- one only needs to copy /sbin/loader and a few essential shared libraries from an OSF/1 machine. (I think these are what FreeBSD also uses, distributed as part of a netscape RPM from Compaq.) I take that to mean the system calls are the same? Or at least, the linux ones are a superset of the OSF/1 ones? So maybe running a linux binary on OSF/1, or on FreeBSD's OSF/1ulator, may only require having the linux libraries installed in some appropriate place. I don't know, haven't tried it... Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 6:59:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3269F37B8AF for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 06:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA01076; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:59:08 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:59:08 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: Roelof Osinga Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System In-Reply-To: <397F4DDC.9A5A4D6F@nisser.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Roelof Osinga wrote: > "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > > > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > > > > It's what FORTRAN (FORmula TRANslation) was made for. > > > > Ughh! I haven't heard much good about Fortran. To be fair, I have never > > looked at it. I hear that the syntax is _very_ terse. I will take a closer > > look at it. > > Nope. That would be APL. Nothing wrong with Fortran. The versions > after IV are quite nice, actually. At least, from what I've seen and > read about them. Haven't used Fortran after IV. The GNU has a > F77 translator. Turns F77 into C. > GNU has f2c? I'm pretty sure f2c is independent of GNU. > But something like MathCalc would probably be more efficient. > Especially when there are lots of models available. > > Roelof > > -- > Home is where the (@) http://eboa.com/ is. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 8:47:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nisser.com (c1870039.telekabel.chello.nl [212.187.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D76F37B990 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Received: from nisser.com (roelof [10.0.0.2]) by nisser.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA97589; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:47:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Message-ID: <39805A78.41CDDEB4@nisser.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:51:20 +0200 From: Roelof Osinga Organization: eboa - engineering buro Office Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Narvi Cc: "Jason C. Wells" , cjclark@alum.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Narvi wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Roelof Osinga wrote: > > > Nope. That would be APL. Nothing wrong with Fortran. The versions > > after IV are quite nice, actually. At least, from what I've seen and > > read about them. Haven't used Fortran after IV. The GNU has a > > F77 translator. Turns F77 into C. > > > > GNU has f2c? I'm pretty sure f2c is independent of GNU. I stand corrected. Chapter 21 of the UNIX programmer's manual, revised and expanded version: 'A portable Fortran 77 Compiler'. Page 401. Like I said, it's been a while ;). Mind you the UNIX compiler listens to the name of 'f77' which in turn drives f2c. It's even, or still, part of FreeBSD! Roelof -- Home is where the (@) http://eboa.com/ is. UPC/Chello home http://nisser.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 8:53:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superconductor.rush.net (superconductor.rush.net [208.9.155.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665F937B990; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:53:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from trish@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by superconductor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24265; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:53:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch X-Sender: trish@superconductor.rush.net To: Johann Visagie Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, janet@sanbi.ac.za Subject: Re: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego In-Reply-To: <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As the BSD columnist for Open the Magazine, I wouldn't mind some more information, maybe I can give a little more exposure to BSD in the bioinformatics field, drop me a line, we can set up a time to talk. -Trish __ Trish Lynch FreeBSD - The Power to Serve trish@bsdunix.net Rush Networking trish@rush.net On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Johann Visagie wrote: > Damn, I should've posted this earlier! > > The Bioinformatics Open Source Conference (BOSC - previously BioPerl) takes > place in San Diego on 17-18 August. Unfortunately registration has already > closed - hence my lament that I forgot to post earlier! See: > http://ismb00.sdsc.edu/bosc2000/ > > I will be attending with others from my company and our associated academic > institute (http://www.sanbi.ac.za/). > > Some background as to why this is something FreeBSD users might want to take > note of (long - you may skip to summary at the end): > > You've probably all read the media reports about the completion of a first > draft sequence of the human genome last month: > http://www.sanger.ac.uk/HGP/draft2000/ > > Contrary to what the press hullabaloo might have suggested, this wasn't an > end - it was a beginning. We haven't found the "source code" for the human > species - we found the binary image in memory. Our task over the next few > years (decades?) will be to disassemble that binary and get back to fully > commented source code in a high level language. Calling this "difficult" may > be the understatement of the new millennium. > > > The science that is attempting this task is known as Bioinformatics. It is a > already the focus of dozens of elite academic establishments around the > world, and forms the backbone of a nascent multi-billion dollar industry. It > is where computer science meets the biosciences - in fact, bioinformatics > research requires massive amounts of processing power, and some of the bigger > supercomputers in the world are dedicated to it. In terms of human > scientific progress, this may well be "where it's at" for the next decade or > so. > > > Coming to this field from a commercial internet environment that would be > familiar to many of you, where I too constantly fought the good fight against > the hordes of Microsoft, I was amazed and not a little flabbergasted to find > that here, Unix is the _only_ game in town. Literally. A bioinformatics > application that runs on Windows? Never heard of one. You'd be ostracised > for even suggesting it. > > Most bioinformatics applications are huge, monolithic, archaic, incredibly > expensive and run on equally expensive commercial Unix boxes. SGI, Sun and > Compaq all play big roles on the hardware side of things. They support the > academic institutes with hardware, which means research crystallises into > software that runs on their operating systems, which means they can move > truckloads of boxes to big pharmaceuticals. > > As you might guess, a few insidious individuals down in the trenches have > been saying, "Hey, this sucks. Look at those internet blokes developing all > their software collaboratively and giving it away. We can do the same." And > so a number of open source initiatives in the field of bioinformatics have > been established, though most of them are still very young and immature. > > You can get some feel for the role of open source in bioinformatics by > reading Lincoln Stein's article about "How Perl saved the Human Genome > Project" here: > http://www.bioperl.org/GetStarted/tpj_ls_bio.html > > Or see Ewan Birney's plea to help "Hack the Genome" on advogato: > http://advogato.org/article/131.html > > Some of these projects - all of which will be the subjects of presentations at > BOSC2000 - are: > > The Bio* projects - Bioperl, BioPython, BioJava, BioXML, BioCorba - they all > have .org domains; you can guess the URLs. These tools all aim at providing > the basic building blocks for developing bioinformatics applications in their > respective environments. And there's a lot of cross-pollination going on > too. > > Ensembl is a fully open source gene annotation pipeline. That'll take too > long to explain, but you can find out a lot more on their site: > http://www.ensembl.org/ > > DAS, the distributed annotation system, may be one of the killer apps of the > field. You can find out more here... > http://www.genetics.wustl.edu/eddy/people/robin/das > > And read the interesting Wired article about how DAS means gene research > meets Napster, Gnutella and Freenet here: > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,35404,00.html?tw=wn20000405 > > Oh, and Tim O'Reilly will provide a token presence from the open source side > of things by delivering one of the keynotes. > > Right, this is turning into an article, but let me continue. Where does > FreeBSD fit in? Unfortunately, nowhere yet. As more and more effort is put > into open source bioinformatics, the word on everybody's lips is, of course, > "Linux". Since this is an area where massive amounts of processing power is > the norm, another word that has been bandied about is "Beowulf". However, > the field is rooted in commercial Unix, and you can get a feel for some of > the Linux vs. Unix debate from these pages: > > http://www.portlandpress.com/biochemist/cyber/0006/default.htm > http://www2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/personal/rpg/CB/Linux.html > > They detail a specific lab's decision-making process. Eventually the lab > went for an Alphaserver over a couple of Linux boxes, _mostly_ because of > Linux's 2GB file size limit. Erk. > > As a FreeBSD user in bioinformatics, I see two obvious tasks ahead of me > (when I can find the time between the myriad other things on my plate): > - Educating the FreeBSD community about bioinformatics. > - Educating the bioinformatics community about FreeBSD. > > In summary: > > Bioinformatics is a 100% Unix-dominated field - one of the few remaining. It > is about to become a Very Big Thing indeed. Unless I (and others in my > position) do some advocacy of FreeBSD as a stable, secure, standard platform, > it is likely to be a Linux-dominated field a few years from now. > > I've started working on ports of some bioinformatics tools and will submit > them in due course. I'd also like to provide some feedback after BOSC if > anyone is interested. (Maybe I could get Daemon News interested?) > > -- Johann > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 10:15:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8088037C2E8 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13210; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:15:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000727111016.0485cd60@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:14:59 -0600 To: "Thomas M. Sommers" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Language for Modeling Mechanical System Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, "Jason C. Wells" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <397FC7C8.D1C7BBD9@mail.ptd.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000726195620.04ab6ee0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:25 PM 7/26/2000, Thomas M. Sommers wrote: >[FORTRAN] It also has a builtin complex type, and common math operations such as >exponentiation and trig functions are also builtin, and so don't incur >function call overhead. Actually, many languages implement exponentiation, trig, etc. as inlines. They look like function calls but aren't. Complex numbers are a plus. But almost every language has libraries that handle them gracefully. The big win in FORTRAN is the optimization. But for modeling a car -- well, unless you're doing a virtual crash test, you'll mostly be checking structural strength and probably modeling the suspension. Neither of these applications needs raw computing power as much as it does ease of use. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 11:13:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7011737B9A9 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:13:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e6RIDMC27490; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:13:22 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Rick Hamell Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Books Message-ID: <20000727111321.B17222@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <397E5118@webmail.umbc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from hamellr@aracnet.com on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:53:00AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Rick Hamell [000727 10:54] wrote: > > > Aside from the one book available at freebsdmall, will there be more FreeBSD > > books coming in the near future? > > Yes, at least three I know of for sure. One by O'Reilly, a FreeBSD > for Dummies and one geared towards corporate network admins. lol! Now be nice. :) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 13:48:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0814337B92E; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by klapaucius.zer0.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA34747; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) X-Authentication-Warning: klapaucius.zer0.org: gsutter set sender to gsutter@zer0.org using -f Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:47:57 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Johann Visagie Cc: chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org, janet@sanbi.ac.za Subject: Re: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego Message-ID: <20000727134757.A34437@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za>; from wjv@cityip.co.za on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 12:28:55PM +0200 Organization: daemonnews Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-07-27 12:28 +0200, Johann Visagie wrote: > > Bioinformatics is a 100% Unix-dominated field - one of the few > remaining. It is about to become a Very Big Thing indeed. Unless I > (and others in my position) do some advocacy of FreeBSD as a stable, > secure, standard platform, it is likely to be a Linux-dominated field > a few years from now. > > I've started working on ports of some bioinformatics tools and will > submit them in due course. I'd also like to provide some feedback > after BOSC if anyone is interested. (Maybe I could get Daemon News > interested?) I think you could get Daemon News interested! If the conference yields information of potential relevance to BSD, drop us a line at articles@daemonnews.org with an outline of your topic. Personally, I would love to see the bioinformatics algorithms and software distributed as open source. Anything that is more of a weapon against Celera's proprietary attitude toward the human genome is a huge benefit! Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Heisenberg might have been here. mailto:gsutter@daemonnews.org PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 13:48:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from superconductor.rush.net (superconductor.rush.net [208.9.155.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CAE37BAB2 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:48:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from trish@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (trish@localhost) by superconductor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17410; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:48:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch X-Sender: trish@superconductor.rush.net To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Rick Hamell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Books In-Reply-To: <20000727111321.B17222@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I also was working on one, more of an overview for people looking to learn more about BSD in general, however its been sidelined due to several other writing assignments I'm working on. -Trish __ Trish Lynch FreeBSD - The Power to Serve trish@bsdunix.net Rush Networking trish@rush.net On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Rick Hamell [000727 10:54] wrote: > > > > > Aside from the one book available at freebsdmall, will there be more FreeBSD > > > books coming in the near future? > > > > Yes, at least three I know of for sure. One by O'Reilly, a FreeBSD > > for Dummies and one geared towards corporate network admins. > > lol! Now be nice. :) > > -Alfred > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 14:33:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9823E37B523 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.3/frmug-2.7/nospam) with UUCP id XAA02149 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 23:33:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 19D1E8894; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:42:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:42:53 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: register now, pay later, for a domain? Message-ID: <20000727214252.A43574@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <39809854.4371.22E5CDD8@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <39809854.4371.22E5CDD8@localhost>; from dan@langille.org on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 08:15:16PM +1200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT/ELF AMD-K6/200 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to Dan Langille: > Does anyone know a domain registrar where I can register the domain > now and pay later? AFAIK none of the current registrars support this. NSI used to but moved to a credit card based system and all later registars adopted the same schema because they're pre-buy domains to NSI. www.gandi.net is amongst the cheapest 'round here and runs FreeBSD/Linux and one of the main guys is a FreeBSD committer (Hi Pierre). -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 15: 3:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CF737B761; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01492; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:03:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: Bill Fumerola Cc: Warner Losh , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , obrien@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/kern sys_generic.c References: <3117.964693549@localhost> <200007271638.KAA39710@harmony.village.org> <20000727172306.N51462@jade.chc-chimes.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 Jul 2000 00:03:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: Bill Fumerola's message of "Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:23:06 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moving to -chat] Bill Fumerola writes: > There are legal rammifications with spanking Brian until he is of > legal age, pick an old fart. He's legal where I live. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 15: 6:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost2.inspire.net.nz [203.96.157.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E193137B678 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 882 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2000 22:06:35 -0000 Received: from outpost5.inspire.net.nz (HELO outpost.co.nz) (203.96.157.29) by queasy.outpost.co.nz with SMTP; 27 Jul 2000 22:06:35 -0000 Message-ID: <3980B25D.92E40162@outpost.co.nz> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:06:21 +1200 From: Craig Harding Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: From the 4.1 announcement.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD is also available via anonymous FTP from mirror sites in the > following countries: > [...] > Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, Elbonia, the > Ukraine and the United Kingdom (and quite possibly several others > which I've never even heard of :). Heh, obviously all that mud buys you a lot of FTP server. -- C. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 15:11:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E4737BB14 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01537; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:11:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) To: Craig Harding Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: From the 4.1 announcement.... References: <3980B25D.92E40162@outpost.co.nz> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 28 Jul 2000 00:11:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: Craig Harding's message of "Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:06:21 +1200" Message-ID: Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Craig Harding writes: > > FreeBSD is also available via anonymous FTP from mirror sites in the > > following countries: > > [...] > > Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, Elbonia, the > > Ukraine and the United Kingdom (and quite possibly several others > > which I've never even heard of :). > Heh, obviously all that mud buys you a lot of FTP server. They don't have any mud left, remember? They found out how to make a profit selling it. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 16:42:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E749837C186 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:42:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA42517; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:12:06 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:12:06 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Ollivier Robert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: register now, pay later, for a domain? Message-ID: <20000728091206.B36172@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <39809854.4371.22E5CDD8@localhost> <20000727214252.A43574@keltia.freenix.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20000727214252.A43574@keltia.freenix.fr>; from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 09:42:53PM +0200 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 27 July 2000 at 21:42:53 +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > According to Dan Langille: >> Does anyone know a domain registrar where I can register the domain >> now and pay later? > > AFAIK none of the current registrars support this. NSI used to but moved to a > credit card based system and all later registars adopted the same schema > because they're pre-buy domains to NSI. I think it's very unlikely that there will be one. Some US film makers were apparently registering film names in advance, putting up a web site, then closing down before they ever got round to paying. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 17:18:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D65A37C18F for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@wantadilla.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA58507; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:47:43 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:47:43 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Siobhan Patricia Lynch Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Rick Hamell , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Books Message-ID: <20000728094743.B45715@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20000727111321.B17222@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from trish@bsdunix.net on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 04:48:06PM -0400 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thursday, 27 July 2000 at 16:48:06 -0400, Siobhan Patricia Lynch wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > >> * Rick Hamell [000727 10:54] wrote: >>> >>>> Aside from the one book available at freebsdmall, will there be more FreeBSD >>>> books coming in the near future? >>> >>> Yes, at least three I know of for sure. One by O'Reilly, a FreeBSD >>> for Dummies and one geared towards corporate network admins. >> >> lol! Now be nice. :) > > I also was working on one, more of an overview for people looking to > learn more about BSD in general, however its been sidelined due to > several other writing assignments I'm working on. A general word of warning here: many more books get started than get finished. The "for dummies" book is the second attempt (new author). Others have also fallen by the wayside, including a Sams "FreeBSD in 21 days". Don't count on any of these getting finished (though I'll do my damndest to see that "Advanced BSD System Administration" does). Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 18: 0:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nisser.com (c1870039.telekabel.chello.nl [212.187.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C6A37B55B for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:00:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Received: from nisser.com (roelof [10.0.0.2]) by nisser.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA00440; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:00:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roelof@nisser.com) Message-ID: <3980DC09.D8CD0353@nisser.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:04:09 +0200 From: Roelof Osinga Organization: eboa - engineering buro Office Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: Ollivier Robert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: register now, pay later, for a domain? References: <39809854.4371.22E5CDD8@localhost> <20000727214252.A43574@keltia.freenix.fr> <20000728091206.B36172@wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Thursday, 27 July 2000 at 21:42:53 +0200, Ollivier Robert wrote: > > According to Dan Langille: > >> Does anyone know a domain registrar where I can register the domain > >> now and pay later? > > > > AFAIK none of the current registrars support this. NSI used to but moved to a > > credit card based system and all later registars adopted the same schema > > because they're pre-buy domains to NSI. > > I think it's very unlikely that there will be one. Some US film > makers were apparently registering film names in advance, putting up a > web site, then closing down before they ever got round to paying. Same here - The Netherlands, that is. The company namespace.com had reputedly registered about 25.000 domainnames without apparantly paying for them. No wonder we had a cybersquatting problem. But you've got to admit it's great for business. Buy low, sell high and disappear when the sh*t threatens to hit the fan. Roelof -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Het Slakke Huis van de TGV op http://SlakkeHuis.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Home is where the (@) http://eboa.com/ is. UPC/Chello home http://nisser.com/ Beveiligingsverwijzingen http://nisser.com/links.htm Lokale Chello lijn monitor http://nisser.com/~roelof/logs_chello.shtml Nationale UPC monitor http://nl.eboa.com/~roelof/NL/landelijk.php3 ---------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 27 18: 3:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8858237B5CA for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17652; Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000727190226.0483ae30@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:02:58 -0600 To: Craig Harding , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: From the 4.1 announcement.... In-Reply-To: <3980B25D.92E40162@outpost.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Elbonia? In that case, why not Dilbertia? ;-) --Brett At 04:06 PM 7/27/2000, Craig Harding wrote: >> FreeBSD is also available via anonymous FTP from mirror sites in the >> following countries: >> [...] >> Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, Elbonia, the >> Ukraine and the United Kingdom (and quite possibly several others >> which I've never even heard of :). > >Heh, obviously all that mud buys you a lot of FTP server. > > -- C. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 4:47:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145A837B752 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:47:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13I8bw-000Oj5-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:47:28 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA58868 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:47:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:47:27 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I recently read than the linux 2.2 kernel pretty much evened the TCP/IP performance difference between Linux and BSD. Now i read somewhere that the 2.4 kernel is expected to match BSD pretty much across the board. Is there anywhere where BSD is still head and shoulders above in performance? Are there any projects in the works besides SMP that wmight give us a leg up again? jm -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org "The physicist's greatest tool is his wastebasket." - Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5: 2:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 969FA37BB7D for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:02:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 95999 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2000 12:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 28 Jul 2000 12:02:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 13219 invoked by uid 211); 28 Jul 2000 12:02:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:32:35 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 12:47:27PM +0100 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I recently read than the linux 2.2 kernel pretty much evened the TCP/IP > performance difference between Linux and BSD. Now i read somewhere that the > 2.4 kernel is expected to match BSD pretty much across the board. Is there > anywhere where BSD is still head and shoulders above in performance? Are > there any projects in the works besides SMP that wmight give us a leg up > again? From what I've read (second hand info, I haven't checked it) SMP was the one thing where linux was clearly ahead of BSD. In nearly everything else, the BSD's (FreeBSD, at least) are ahead, even of linux 2.4, by varying margins. Linux can't be too bad at tcp/ip if it runs sites like google and deja.com. On the other hand, I don't think the 2.2 kernel matches BSD in that. 2.4 is supposed to have severe problems with memory management, one of the things holding it back from release. From what I've seen on machines I've used, 2.2 definitely isn't as good at memory management as FreeBSD either. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5:20: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B4D37BF12 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:20:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13I97N-000PZr-00; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:19:57 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA59016; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:19:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:19:56 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 05:32:35PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I've seen on machines I've used, 2.2 definitely isn't as good at > memory management as FreeBSD either. That's true. BSD's venerable memory management is one area that seems to be a stronghold. I know also newbies complain about installation sometimes. I need to check sysinstall, and see how the work in progress is going. I know FreeBSD is definitely minimalist compared to the popular Linux distros, but what about an installer that uses a database of info and drivers from the CDROM to help put together a working system, rather than expecting the user to figure it all out him or herself? The installer can be as bloated as necessary, since it will be discarded, or at least will not remain on the HD after installation. Sort of like Windows CAB files, only different. :) And pardon my ignorance if there is a major flaw I am overlooking, or if it is already being done. jm -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org "The physicist's greatest tool is his wastebasket." - Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5:30:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BFF9437BDEC for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:30:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 96155 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2000 12:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 28 Jul 2000 12:30:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 13351 invoked by uid 211); 28 Jul 2000 12:30:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:00:20 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 01:19:56PM +0100 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org j mckitrick said on Jul 28, 2000 at 13:19:56: > > I've seen on machines I've used, 2.2 definitely isn't as good at > > memory management as FreeBSD either. > > That's true. BSD's venerable memory management is one area that seems to be > a stronghold. I don't know about venerable: I read somewhere that a lot of the FreeBSD improvements are recent and due to Matt Dillon, and also that he's talking to Alan Cox of linux and eventually the memory management of FreeBSD and Linux may "merge"... I can't remember where I read this latter bit or how reliable the source may have been. But Alan Cox is an admirer of FreeBSD and runs it on one machine, and often mentions it in interviews. R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5:42:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7520637C1D7 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 96191 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2000 12:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 28 Jul 2000 12:42:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 13512 invoked by uid 211); 28 Jul 2000 12:42:25 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:12:23 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728181223.B13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 01:35:00PM +0100 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > an admirer of FreeBSD and runs it on one machine, and often mentions > > it in interviews. > > I guess my only concern is whether we can stay ahead or differentiated > enough to not be left behind. I know FreeBSD will always make a great > server, but Linux could (will?) catch up. And FreeBSD doesn't have the desktop > flexibility to compete with Linux in that arena. But i certainly don't want > to sell ourselves short or underestimate the core developers. Me, I'd rather see cooperation (or friendly rivalry) than cut-throat competition. (I'm sitting on a linux machine right now, running a 2.4-pre kernel, and if it gets better I'd have no reason to feel unhappy about it.) I also disagree on the bit about desktop flexibility: most of the open-source work being done on the linux side runs on FreeBSD fine. With the upcoming KOffice and GPL'd StarOffice, and the already existing Linux binary compatibility, I think some of the major holes on the desktop side are getting filled up. R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5:52:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from diskfarm.firehouse.net (rdu25-12-043.nc.rr.com [24.25.12.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8197A37BF24 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abc@diskfarm.firehouse.net) Received: (from abc@localhost) by diskfarm.firehouse.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12236; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:56:10 GMT (envelope-from abc) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:56:10 +0000 From: Alan Clegg To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728085610.C11712@diskfarm.firehouse.net> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728181223.B13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20000728181223.B13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 06:12:23PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Out of the ether, Rahul Siddharthan spewed forth the following bitstream: > [..snip..] (I'm sitting on a linux machine right now, running a > 2.4-pre kernel, and if it gets better I'd have no reason to feel unhappy > about it.) It is my understanding that FreeBSD boxes are much softer than Linux boxes and won't cause numbness in the buttox. You need to watch your enjoyment level when sitting on these boxes, as not all chasis have been tested under 'load'. I personally have experience with a rack mounted system that suffered a 'crash' leading to a terrible 'panic' when subjected to about 180lbs. Also, Windows boxes have been known to cause hemroids and rectal bleeding, so I'd definitely suggest *NOT* using them. AlanC {extremely glad that mindguard now has a FreeBSD port. http://zapatopi.net/mindguard.html } To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5:52:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071F337BF39 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13I9Lw-000AHx-00; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:35:00 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA59095; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:35:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:35:00 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in>; from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 06:00:20PM +0530 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > That's true. BSD's venerable memory management is one area that seems to be > > a stronghold. > > I don't know about venerable: I read somewhere that a lot of the > FreeBSD improvements are recent and due to Matt Dillon, and also that Well, that's true, since the 4.0 rewrite. WHich is quite impressive. > he's talking to Alan Cox of linux and eventually the memory management > of FreeBSD and Linux may "merge"... I can't remember where I read this > latter bit or how reliable the source may have been. But Alan Cox is > an admirer of FreeBSD and runs it on one machine, and often mentions > it in interviews. I guess my only concern is whether we can stay ahead or differentiated enough to not be left behind. I know FreeBSD will always make a great server, but Linux could (will?) catch up. And FreeBSD doesn't have the desktop flexibility to compete with Linux in that arena. But i certainly don't want to sell ourselves short or underestimate the core developers. jm -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org "The physicist's greatest tool is his wastebasket." - Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5:55:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF8AE37BF24 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:55:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 96213 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2000 12:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 28 Jul 2000 12:55:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 13553 invoked by uid 211); 28 Jul 2000 12:55:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:25:28 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Alan Clegg Cc: Freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728182528.A13548@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: Alan Clegg , Freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728181223.B13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728085610.C11712@diskfarm.firehouse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000728085610.C11712@diskfarm.firehouse.net>; from abc@bsdi.com on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 08:56:10AM +0000 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alan Clegg said on Jul 28, 2000 at 08:56:10: > Out of the ether, Rahul Siddharthan spewed forth the following bitstream: > > [..snip..] (I'm sitting on a linux machine right now, running a > > 2.4-pre kernel, and if it gets better I'd have no reason to feel unhappy > > about it.) > > It is my understanding that FreeBSD boxes are much softer than Linux > boxes and won't cause numbness in the buttox. Heh. Sorry about that. But if the linux desktop is more "flexible", I think it would be easier on the bottom... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 5:59:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from durango.picus.com (durango.picus.com [209.100.20.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1A237C1D1 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 05:59:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from troy@picus.com) Received: from abyss [209.100.22.250] by durango.picus.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id A2FE6F60150; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:56:30 -0400 From: "Troy Settle" To: Subject: RE: Quiet cpu fans Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:59:13 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ** -----Original Message----- ** From: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG ** [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Kris Kirby ** Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 8:30 PM ** To: David Scheidt ** Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG ** Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans ** ** ** On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, David Scheidt wrote: ** ** > My solution at home was to have a diskless 486, only needs ** a power supply fan, on my ** > desk, and the real machine in another room. It died, so I ** have the dual CPU ** > box on the desk at home, with two cpu fans, a powersupply ** fan, a case fan, a ** > fan in an ISA slot, and a fan on a disk drive, fans in the ** external disk ** > box, CDR, and tape drives. It drives me absolutely nuts. ** ** Turn up your music or start wearing earplugs. I actually ** take advantage of ** the noise though. Most of my machines do not have power LEDs ** because I've ** cut the connectors down the middle and use them for SCSI. ** (These machines ** are also equip'd with IDE, which is used, or a second SCSI card.) ** ** Besides, real machines don't need idiot light, because they ** are never off. I used to spend my days working next to all my equipment. A cisco 2501, a pair of Max 4000s, and a handfull of servers. I actually had a hard time staying awake. All that white noise is enough to knock anyone out. When we moved our office, I was actually hoping that our equipemnt room would have enough space for a cot so we'd have a good place to take naps, but that didn't work out. :( -Troy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 9:42:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4898B37BBE2 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23980; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:40:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:40:15 -0600 To: j mckitrick , Rahul Siddharthan From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:35 AM 7/28/2000, j mckitrick wrote: >I guess my only concern is whether we can stay ahead or differentiated >enough to not be left behind. I know FreeBSD will always make a great >server, but Linux could (will?) catch up. And FreeBSD doesn't have the desktop >flexibility to compete with Linux in that arena. But i certainly don't want >to sell ourselves short or underestimate the core developers. BSD's enduring advantage -- one that Linux will likely never share -- is ethical, business-friendly, programmer-friendly licensing. Technical advantages may narrow to the point where they will only be obvious to experts, but the licensing will remain BSD's big edge. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 9:52:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C9D37C23F for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13IDN5-000CQE-00; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:52:27 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA60872; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:52:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:52:27 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Brett Glass Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728175227.B60259@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:40:15AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > ethical, business-friendly, programmer-friendly licensing. Technical Ah, yes. I won't get you started on that one ;) I read a wonderful article in Software Development MArch 2000 about the ethics of free software. It pointed out the huge holes in Stallman's reasoning, and also pointed out that without proprietary software, we would never have free software. Even unix started out as proprietary, as we all know :). BSD esp remembers that little tidbit. An interesting point is made that while GPL software does not cost any money, it also comes with ZERo waranty. Commercial software can sometimes be worth it just for the warranty and support alone. Anyway, i didn't want to start another war treading over old ground. But you are correct, i had forgotten about the license, i was thinking more of a technical viewpoint. But your point is a salient one. jm -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org "The physicist's greatest tool is his wastebasket." - Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 10: 5:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDA937B995 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:05:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 13IDZl-000APA-00 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:05:33 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:05:33 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bioinformatics Open Source Conference, 17-18 Aug, San Diego Message-ID: <20000728190533.A32463@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000727122855.B414@fling.sanbi.ac.za>; from wjv@cityip.co.za on Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 12:28:55PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Johann Visagie on 2000-07-27 (Thu) at 12:28:55 +0200: > > I've started working on ports of some bioinformatics tools and will submit > them in due course. Just so no one can say I'm not as good as my word :-), four PR's for new ports submitted since I posted previously, including Bioperl and Biopython. -- Johann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 10:31:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1039237B75A for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:31:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e6SHTx202800; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:29:59 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728102959.J17222@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 12:47:27PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * j mckitrick [000728 04:51] wrote: > > I recently read than the linux 2.2 kernel pretty much evened the TCP/IP > performance difference between Linux and BSD. Now i read somewhere that the > 2.4 kernel is expected to match BSD pretty much across the board. Is there > anywhere where BSD is still head and shoulders above in performance? Are > there any projects in the works besides SMP that wmight give us a leg up > again? Is that how linux gets its performance? hearsay? I now declare that a i386 box running FreeBSD is faster than a 64 CPU onyx, I don't have benchmarks available right now, but if you can bear with me for a while... -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 10:33:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2302637B876 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13IE0i-0005QQ-00; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:33:24 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA61126; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:33:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:33:23 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728183323.A61025@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728102959.J17222@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000728102959.J17222@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:29:59AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:29:59AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Is that how linux gets its performance? hearsay? > > I now declare that a i386 box running FreeBSD is faster than a 64 > CPU onyx, I don't have benchmarks available right now, but if you > can bear with me for a while... Excuse me, waiter, but I believe i ordered the EXTRA bitter sarcasm... jm -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org "The physicist's greatest tool is his wastebasket." - Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 11:51:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [209.0.55.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47C937B7B2 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:51:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 8594E75FF; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823F91D8E; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:52:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? In-Reply-To: <20000728102959.J17222@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: :I now declare that a i386 box running FreeBSD is faster than a 64 :CPU onyx, I don't have benchmarks available right now, but if you :can bear with me for a while... Since the 64 proc Onyx is a mythical beast (64 proc Onyx2, now that I can surely find), I daresay that benchmarks will be hard to come by. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 12:57:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99F6237B6B3 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:57:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25988; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728135419.00c35850@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:55:55 -0600 To: j mckitrick From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000728175227.B60259@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:52 AM 7/28/2000, j mckitrick wrote: >Anyway, i didn't want to start another war treading over old ground. But you >are correct, i had forgotten about the license, i was thinking more of a >technical viewpoint. But your point is a salient one. I wasn't trying to start a war! Just wanted to point out that this may be the one advantage on which BSD has a lock forever. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 13:33:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7539637B601 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:33:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 97429 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2000 20:33:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 28 Jul 2000 20:33:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 14571 invoked by uid 211); 28 Jul 2000 20:33:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 02:03:15 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brett Glass Cc: j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000729020315.A14566@physics.iisc.ernet.in> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> <20000728175227.B60259@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000728135419.00c35850@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728135419.00c35850@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 01:55:55PM -0600 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.0-test3 i686 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass said on Jul 28, 2000 at 13:55:55: > > I wasn't trying to start a war! I don't think you ever *try*, it just happens... :) R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 14: 1:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68FC337B5F8 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 13IHGG-0009Hz-00; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:01:40 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA70470; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:01:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:01:39 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728220139.A70444@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> <20000728175227.B60259@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000728135419.00c35850@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000728135419.00c35850@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 01:55:55PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 01:55:55PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:52 AM 7/28/2000, j mckitrick wrote: > > >Anyway, i didn't want to start another war treading over old ground. But you > >are correct, i had forgotten about the license, i was thinking more of a > >technical viewpoint. But your point is a salient one. > > I wasn't trying to start a war! Just wanted to point out that this may be > the one advantage on which BSD has a lock forever. I know, i was just trying to be funny :) No offense intended in any way. jm -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org "The physicist's greatest tool is his wastebasket." - Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 20: 1:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D8F37B8EB for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:01:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-71-40.dialup.hiwaay.net [216.180.71.40]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e6T31oj31333; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:01:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA81904; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:56:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <200007290256.VAA81904@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: "Troy Settle" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans In-reply-to: Message from "Troy Settle" of "Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:59:13 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:56:06 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Troy Settle" writes: > > I used to spend my days working next to all my equipment. A cisco 2501, > a pair of Max 4000s, and a handfull of servers. I actually had a hard > time staying awake. All that white noise is enough to knock anyone out. Once Upon A Time I had a "computer room" with (8) SGI 4D/320GT's, (2) 4D/380S's, (1) 4D/340S, a 50kva Leibert 3-phase UPS, and an A/C that was a bit over sized. Consoles and keyboards for the GT's were on 50' to 150' extensions in another room. Room was so loud with so much air moving thru it that I kept a stocking cap and shooter's earmuffs in my office. People knew where I was going when I was wearing my protective gear. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 20: 2:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D6A37B737 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:02:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-71-40.dialup.hiwaay.net [216.180.71.40]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e6T326j05526; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:02:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA81722; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:24:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <200007290224.VAA81722@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: j mckitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? In-reply-to: Message from j mckitrick of "Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:47:27 BST." <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:24:24 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org j mckitrick writes: > > I recently read than the linux 2.2 kernel pretty much evened the TCP/IP > performance difference between Linux and BSD. Now i read somewhere that the > 2.4 kernel is expected to match BSD pretty much across the board. I recently read Bill Clinton balanced the federal budget over Congress's dead body, put an end to war, reduced all women to equality, and invented a toothpaste that makes teeth whiter. Al Gore had nothing to do with the above, he was busy inventing the internet, optimized Chinese financial resources, and nursed the Snail Darter back from the endangered species list. Not to mention all the Elvis sightings. Microsoft would never lie, they have been saying for years that NT is faster, better, more secure, more reliable, etc, than Unix. The best adivce I've read came from fortune(6): Don't read everything you believe. To which we can add the obvious: Don't believe everything you read. As to whether or not FreeBSD or Linux is bestest? Try both for yourself. If you can't measure or quantify a difference the way you use a computer, then it doesn't matter. IMHO: FreeBSD people are nicer to hang out with and have a better sense of humor than Linux people. :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 20: 7:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009BA37B737 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by frmug.org (8.9.3/frmug-2.7/nospam) with UUCP id FAA15049 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 05:06:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from roberto@keltia.freenix.fr) Received: by keltia.freenix.fr (Postfix, from userid 101) id 03B218895; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 00:47:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 00:47:47 +0200 From: Ollivier Robert To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000729004747.A51783@keltia.freenix.fr> Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728124727.A58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728173235.A13136@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728131956.B58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000728180020.A13337@physics.iisc.ernet.in> <20000728133500.C58850@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20000728103733.04b7e510@localhost> <20000728175227.B60259@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000728175227.B60259@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 05:52:27PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT/ELF AMD-K6/200 & 2x PPro/200 SMP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org According to j mckitrick: > money, it also comes with ZERo waranty. Commercial software can sometimes > be worth it just for the warranty and support alone. Warranty ? In which license have you ever seen something about warranty ? None of the commercial and free software ever came with any warranty whatsoever :-) Support, yes. Warranty, none. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 5.0-CURRENT #80: Sun Jun 4 22:44:19 CEST 2000 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 28 22:22:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE3C37B819 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:22:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e6T5LFP21704; Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:21:14 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: David Kelly Cc: j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Message-ID: <20000728222114.P17222@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200007290224.VAA81722@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <200007290224.VAA81722@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from dkelly@hiwaay.net on Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 09:24:24PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * David Kelly [000728 20:02] wrote: > > IMHO: FreeBSD people are nicer to hang out with and have a better sense > of humor than Linux people. :-) If the fate of the world rested on our shoulders to erradicate Microsoft we'd prolly be a bit uptight as well. ;-) -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 29 13: 5:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D49937B835 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07592; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000729140159.043c4610@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:03:51 -0600 To: David Kelly , "Troy Settle" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200007290256.VAA81904@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:56 PM 7/28/2000, David Kelly wrote: >Room was so loud with so much air moving thru it that I kept a stocking >cap and shooter's earmuffs in my office. People knew where I was going >when I was wearing my protective gear. Rushing air can be nice. The pink noise it produces masks lots of other distracting sounds. When I was an undergrad, I used to opt to work in the "glass house" (the specially air conditioned computer room with raised floors and glass windows) because of this. Needless to say, it produced a few puns on my last name. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 29 13: 9:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D67737B830 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:09:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07624; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:07:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000729140423.043c3600@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:05:54 -0600 To: Alfred Perlstein , David Kelly From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Linux kernel and FreeBSD neck and neck? Cc: j mckitrick , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20000728222114.P17222@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200007290224.VAA81722@nospam.hiwaay.net> <200007290224.VAA81722@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:21 PM 7/28/2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >If the fate of the world rested on our shoulders to erradicate >Microsoft we'd prolly be a bit uptight as well. The notion of a common cause can be a positive unifying factor. The important thing is for the cause to be a positive one. The FSF's rallying cry is the extinction not only of Microsoft but of all commercial software vendors; this makes it more like a jihaad than a good fight. IMHO, it would actually help the BSD community if it could rally around a more positive cause. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 29 18:58:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D78F37B735 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 18:58:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-71-159.dialup.hiwaay.net [216.180.71.159]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e6U1wMj29031; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:58:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA88267; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:58:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <200007300158.UAA88267@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans In-reply-to: Message from Brett Glass of "Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:03:51 MDT." <4.3.2.7.2.20000729140159.043c4610@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:58:20 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 08:56 PM 7/28/2000, David Kelly wrote: > > >Room was so loud with so much air moving thru it that I kept a stocking > >cap and shooter's earmuffs in my office. People knew where I was going > >when I was wearing my protective gear. > > Rushing air can be nice. The pink noise it produces masks lots of other > distracting sounds. In my case it was enough to turn my sinuses on full blast. Sore throat and ear infection was the overnight outcome from the drainage. So I donned at least the stocking cap even when giving tours to VIP's. Am out of that business now. But to this day I keep electric pink ear plugs in my pocket, desk, briefcase... I like the $1.78 10-pack from Walmart best. They mostly get used at highway speeds on my motorcycle. But are as handy as a stapler at the office. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 29 21: 9:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DCAA37B751 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:09:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10504; Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000729220813.050499c0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:08:51 -0600 To: David Kelly From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Quiet cpu fans Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200007300158.UAA88267@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000729140159.043c4610@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:58 PM 7/29/2000, David Kelly wrote: >Am out of that business now. But to this day I keep electric pink ear >plugs in my pocket, desk, briefcase... I like the $1.78 10-pack from >Walmart best. They mostly get used at highway speeds on my motorcycle. >But are as handy as a stapler at the office. I wouldn't wear earplugs on a motorcycle. I'd opt for a helmet. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message