From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 9:55:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91A6837B4C5 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebsd.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.207] helo=chemicalterrorism.com) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13sU17-000BMC-0A for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:55:44 +0000 Received: from sycho (sycho.chemicalterrorism.com [192.168.0.2]) by chemicalterrorism.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 81586F4BC for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:55:33 +0000 (GMT) From: "Simon Griffiths" To: Subject: Possibly OT: Join me in protest! - Dairy Crest To Stop Production of FRijj Vanilla 'Ltd Edition' Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:55:26 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi This is possibly offtopic and pure madness ;) But for milkshake lovers in the uk you must read the following ;-) -FWD-- Since discovering that Dairy Crest have discontinued the FRijj Vanilla 'Ltd Edition' thick shake (they have replaced it with Mount Caramel), I have decided to petition them with the hope they will bring it back once more. Please visit www.frijj.com and demand they bring it back again! Together we can make a difference. :) -FWD-- -- Si. "FreeBSD - The power to serve" - Url: Http://www.uk.freebsd.org/ Chemical Terrorism[NETWORK SERVICES]: -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 12:56:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from puck.firepipe.net (mcut-b-167.resnet.purdue.edu [128.211.209.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F18B37B4D7; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 12:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by puck.firepipe.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 783FE19DF; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:56:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:56:41 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Jing-Tang Keith Jang , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: www/en/news newsflash.sgml Message-ID: <20001105155641.E70986@puck.firepipe.net> Reply-To: Will Andrews References: <200011052040.MAA46638@freefall.freebsd.org> <12237.973456999@critter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <12237.973456999@critter>; from phk@critter.freebsd.dk on Sun, Nov 05, 2000 at 09:43:19PM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Nov 05, 2000 at 09:43:19PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > Man, they grab them younger and younger these days... :-) And why not.. younguns are impressionable. :-> -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 15:57:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from citusc17.usc.edu (citusc17.usc.edu [128.125.38.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878B837B4C5 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:57:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kris@localhost) by citusc17.usc.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eA5NwJQ05077 for chat@Freebsd.org; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:58:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:58:18 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: chat@Freebsd.org Subject: Microsoft Source (fwd) Message-ID: <20001105155818.A92095@citusc17.usc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline ----- Forwarded message from Dan Browning ----- Microsoft Announces Surprise Cooperative Agreement In a surprise press conference made this Friday evening Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer announced that Microsoft will be releasing the source code for the upcoming Windows operating system dubbed Whistler. "We have already begun work on the project, and have for the past three months collaborated with a small company of enterprising young programmers from Russia," said Ballmer in an impromptu press conference. Ballmer appeared visibly shaken throughout the press conference, and several times made references to how "skillful the Russian programmers were", and how Microsoft "[didn't] want to do anything to threaten [their] relationship with them." "We at Microsoft are confident that by allowing peer review of the already best-selling Windows operating system and Office suite we will be able to offer our customers a more polished product," continued Ballmer. "By allowing the Open Source community [or "hackers"] access to the Windows source code, we will be able to ensure that the operating system ships with even better security than that which you have already come to expect from Microsoft." In what is perhaps a policy-changing move, Microsoft has worked with the Russian programmers to remove bugs and fix security problems before releasing the code for scrutiny to the Open Source community. It is yet unknown whether this change in policy will include release of source code for previous versions of Microsoft products, or whether this will have any bearing on the Justice Department decision to split Microsoft into two separate companies. Posted on Fri 27 Oct 11:50:00 2000 PDT Written by Eugene --- Shamelessly plagiarized from Segfault (http://segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39f9cdfd-08ab7ae0). ----- End forwarded message ----- --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjoF9BoACgkQWry0BWjoQKXthACgroLpLHWN9Q3AhL3+cRKGUYew MDoAoPz3lDybfz0d5/hoJ/dP/ph8cZxs =frrp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ikeVEW9yuYc//A+q-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 16:56: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A217337B4CF for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 16:55:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 66265 invoked by alias); 6 Nov 2000 00:55:57 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-chat@Freebsd.org@fixme Received: (qmail 66249 invoked by uid 0); 6 Nov 2000 00:55:55 -0000 Received: from ldialup139.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (207.224.203.139) by slkcpop4.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2000 00:55:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3A060092.281BE95F@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 17:51:30 -0700 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kris Kennaway Cc: chat@Freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) References: <20001105155818.A92095@citusc17.usc.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A87A2EF1CE0A1DC95912E4BE" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --------------A87A2EF1CE0A1DC95912E4BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL!! Seriously, I heard a recent rumor that Microsoft is or has developed it's own version of Linux. Has anybody else heard of this? Cheers Joe Kris Kennaway wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Dan Browning ----- > > Microsoft Announces Surprise Cooperative Agreement > > In a surprise press conference made this Friday evening Microsoft CEO > Steve Ballmer announced that Microsoft will be releasing the source > code for the upcoming Windows operating system dubbed Whistler. > > "We have already begun work on the project, and have for the past > three months collaborated with a small company of enterprising young > programmers from Russia," said Ballmer in an impromptu press > conference. Ballmer appeared visibly shaken throughout the press > conference, and several times made references to how "skillful the > Russian programmers were", and how Microsoft "[didn't] want to do > anything to threaten [their] relationship with them." > > "We at Microsoft are confident that by allowing peer review of the > already best-selling Windows operating system and Office suite we will > be able to offer our customers a more polished product," continued > Ballmer. "By allowing the Open Source community [or "hackers"] access > to the Windows source code, we will be able to ensure that the > operating system ships with even better security than that which you > have already come to expect from Microsoft." > > In what is perhaps a policy-changing move, Microsoft has worked with > the Russian programmers to remove bugs and fix security problems > before releasing the code for scrutiny to the Open Source community. > It is yet unknown whether this change in policy will include release > of source code for previous versions of Microsoft products, or whether > this will have any bearing on the Justice Department decision to split > Microsoft into two separate companies. > > Posted on Fri 27 Oct 11:50:00 2000 PDT > Written by Eugene > > --- > > Shamelessly plagiarized from Segfault > (http://segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39f9cdfd-08ab7ae0). > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! --------------A87A2EF1CE0A1DC95912E4BE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL!!

Seriously, I heard a recent rumor that Microsoft is or has
developed it's own version of Linux.  Has anybody else
heard of this?

Cheers

Joe
 

Kris Kennaway wrote:

----- Forwarded message from Dan Browning <danb@cyclonecomputers.com> -----

Microsoft Announces Surprise Cooperative Agreement

In a surprise press conference made this Friday evening Microsoft CEO
Steve Ballmer announced that Microsoft will be releasing the source
code for the upcoming Windows operating system dubbed Whistler.

"We have already begun work on the project, and have for the past
three months collaborated with a small company of enterprising young
programmers from Russia," said Ballmer in an impromptu press
conference. Ballmer appeared visibly shaken throughout the press
conference, and several times made references to how "skillful the
Russian programmers were", and how Microsoft "[didn't] want to do
anything to threaten [their] relationship with them."

"We at Microsoft are confident that by allowing peer review of the
already best-selling Windows operating system and Office suite we will
be able to offer our customers a more polished product," continued
Ballmer. "By allowing the Open Source community [or "hackers"] access
to the Windows source code, we will be able to ensure that the
operating system ships with even better security than that which you
have already come to expect from Microsoft."

In what is perhaps a policy-changing move, Microsoft has worked with
the Russian programmers to remove bugs and fix security problems
before releasing the code for scrutiny to the Open Source community.
It is yet unknown whether this change in policy will include release
of source code for previous versions of Microsoft products, or whether
this will have any bearing on the Justice Department decision to split
Microsoft into two separate companies.

Posted on Fri 27 Oct 11:50:00 2000 PDT
Written by Eugene <eugene_v@yahoo.com>

---

Shamelessly plagiarized from Segfault
(http://segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39f9cdfd-08ab7ae0).

----- End forwarded message -----

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature

--

    FreeBSD = The Power to Serve
     ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks!
  --------------A87A2EF1CE0A1DC95912E4BE-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 17: 4:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6346E37B4C5; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:04:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id eA614JZ00228; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:04:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:04:19 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Joe Warner Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) Message-ID: <20001105170419.O5112@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001105155818.A92095@citusc17.usc.edu> <3A060092.281BE95F@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <3A060092.281BE95F@uswest.net>; from jswarner@uswest.net on Sun, Nov 05, 2000 at 05:51:30PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Joe Warner [001105 16:56] wrote: > LOL!! > > Seriously, I heard a recent rumor that Microsoft is or has > developed it's own version of Linux. Has anybody else > heard of this? http://www.mslinux.org/ -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 17:20:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from slkcpop1.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop1.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 427B137B4CF for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22384 invoked by alias); 6 Nov 2000 01:19:58 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-chat@FreeBSD.ORG@fixme Received: (qmail 22364 invoked by uid 0); 6 Nov 2000 01:19:57 -0000 Received: from ldialup139.slkc.uswest.net (HELO uswest.net) (207.224.203.139) by slkcpop1.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2000 01:19:57 -0000 Message-ID: <3A06063A.D8ABED27@uswest.net> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 18:15:38 -0700 From: Joe Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) References: <20001105155818.A92095@citusc17.usc.edu> <3A060092.281BE95F@uswest.net> <20001105170419.O5112@fw.wintelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah, I've already seen this one. Dru Lavigne posted this one a while back. It's pretty funny! 8^) Maybe it was just a rumor. Microsoft doesn't really have any plans to create a Linux/UNIX variant... ....or do they? 8^P Joe Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Joe Warner [001105 16:56] wrote: > > LOL!! > > > > Seriously, I heard a recent rumor that Microsoft is or has > > developed it's own version of Linux. Has anybody else > > heard of this? > > http://www.mslinux.org/ > > -Alfred -- FreeBSD = The Power to Serve ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 17:28:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A1137B4C5; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA99712; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:28:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:28:04 -0500 (EST) From: To: Joe Warner Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3A06063A.D8ABED27@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, Joe Warner wrote: > Yeah, I've already seen this one. Dru Lavigne posted > this one a while back. It's pretty funny! 8^) > > Maybe it was just a rumor. Microsoft doesn't really > have any plans to create a Linux/UNIX variant... > ....or do they? 8^P They did once already. It was called XENIX. If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and call it MS linux. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 17:39:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wondermutt.net (host75-157.student.udel.edu [128.175.75.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C1A37B479; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:39:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from morgaine.udel.edu (morgaine.wondermutt.net [192.168.1.2]) by wondermutt.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eA61e3256799; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:40:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from papalia@udel.edu) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001105203447.00aed100@mail.udel.edu> X-Sender: papalia@mail.udel.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 20:35:28 -0500 To: , Joe Warner From: John Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <3A06063A.D8ABED27@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Yeah, I've already seen this one. Dru Lavigne posted > > this one a while back. It's pretty funny! 8^) > > > > Maybe it was just a rumor. Microsoft doesn't really > > have any plans to create a Linux/UNIX variant... > > ....or do they? 8^P > > They did once already. It was called XENIX. >If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and >call it MS linux. Gotta remember that 'once upon a time' they owned (or was it that they just had a lot of their fingers in?) SCO as well... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Nov 5 19:38:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from inconnu.isu.edu (inconnu.isu.edu [134.50.8.55]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B3937B479; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 19:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (galt@localhost) by inconnu.isu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18173; Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:38:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:38:18 -0700 (MST) From: John Galt To: Joe Warner Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3A060092.281BE95F@uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's called Corel Linux :). Microsoft invested a large chunk of money into non-voting stock when it looked like Corel wasn't long for this world. On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, Joe Warner wrote: > LOL!! > > Seriously, I heard a recent rumor that Microsoft is or has > developed it's own version of Linux. Has anybody else > heard of this? > > Cheers > > Joe > > > Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > ----- Forwarded message from Dan Browning ----- > > > > Microsoft Announces Surprise Cooperative Agreement > > > > In a surprise press conference made this Friday evening Microsoft CEO > > Steve Ballmer announced that Microsoft will be releasing the source > > code for the upcoming Windows operating system dubbed Whistler. > > > > "We have already begun work on the project, and have for the past > > three months collaborated with a small company of enterprising young > > programmers from Russia," said Ballmer in an impromptu press > > conference. Ballmer appeared visibly shaken throughout the press > > conference, and several times made references to how "skillful the > > Russian programmers were", and how Microsoft "[didn't] want to do > > anything to threaten [their] relationship with them." > > > > "We at Microsoft are confident that by allowing peer review of the > > already best-selling Windows operating system and Office suite we will > > be able to offer our customers a more polished product," continued > > Ballmer. "By allowing the Open Source community [or "hackers"] access > > to the Windows source code, we will be able to ensure that the > > operating system ships with even better security than that which you > > have already come to expect from Microsoft." > > > > In what is perhaps a policy-changing move, Microsoft has worked with > > the Russian programmers to remove bugs and fix security problems > > before releasing the code for scrutiny to the Open Source community. > > It is yet unknown whether this change in policy will include release > > of source code for previous versions of Microsoft products, or whether > > this will have any bearing on the Justice Department decision to split > > Microsoft into two separate companies. > > > > Posted on Fri 27 Oct 11:50:00 2000 PDT > > Written by Eugene > > > > --- > > > > Shamelessly plagiarized from Segfault > > (http://segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39f9cdfd-08ab7ae0). > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature > > -- > > FreeBSD = The Power to Serve > ..Simply put = FreeBSD Rocks! > > -- Armageddon means never having to say you're sorry. Who is John Galt? galt@inconnu.isu.edu, that's who! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 4: 9:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [209.0.55.68]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9758F37B479 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 04:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id E86BD75A3; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 04:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E3A1D95; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 04:10:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 04:10:47 -0800 (PST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: Brent , "Thomas M. Sommers" , Rahul Siddharthan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Free X servers for Windows? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001104182548.04abd4a0@localhost> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm using Exceed3D (the Hummingbird product Brett almost mentions below) with Tera Term SSH and getting very nice results. On Sat, 4 Nov 2000, Brett Glass wrote: :The best one I've found myself is Hummingbird's. It seems to be faster :at drawing and doesn't slow concurrently running Windows apps very much. :It's not free, but is worth the price if you make heavy use of X. : :--Brett : :At 06:14 PM 11/4/2000, Brent wrote: : :>I've been using starnets xwin32 for the last 4 years without any complaints, :>only problem is it isn't free, but they do offer demo versions :> :>http://www.starnet.com :> :>-- :>Brent : : : :To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org :with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message : Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 5: 5:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.tfcc.com (tfcci.com [204.210.226.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427A437B4D7 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 05:05:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mail@localhost) by proxy.tfcc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11894 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:05:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: proxy.tfcc.com: mail set sender to using -f Received: from icestorm.tfcc.com(192.168.4.115) by proxy.tfcc.com via smap (V2.1/2.1a) id xma011875; Mon, 6 Nov 00 08:05:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:05:12 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Fuhrman X-Sender: cfuhrman@icestorm.tfcc.com To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: 21st Century Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 scanner@jurai.net wrote: > They did once already. It was called XENIX. > If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and > call it MS linux. > This got me doing some research on the subject of XENIX. Microsoft purchased a stake in SCO sometime in the early 80's which lead to the development and release of XENIX. In '87, Microsoft was concerned that AT&T's UNIX wouldn't be able to run XENIX app's so they entered into a licensing agreement with AT&T to include some XENIX code in the AT&T base. AT&T sold it's UNIX technology to Novell in '93 who then sold it to SCO in '95. Recently, Microsoft sold it's shares in SCO after which SCO's shares collapsed. Some interesting tidbits: SCO asked M$ to drop the agreement since the XENIX code wasn't relavant. M$ refused and as a consequence, SCO paid M$ about $1.138 million in royalties (ouch) in FY 1998. Confusing, no? ;) From the UnixWare login (Yes, I've the absolute delight of having to work with UnixWare on a daily basis): UnixWare 2.1.3 (volcano) (pts/1) login: [munged] Password: UnixWare 2.1.3 volcano Copyright 1996 The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Copyright 1984-1995 Novell, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Copyright 1987, 1988 Microsoft Corp. All Rights Reserved. U.S. Pat. No. 5,349,642 Cheers! p.s. I got this info from http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/12338.html -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications cfuhrman@tfcci.com | Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 10:16:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A769237B4CF for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22812; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:16:10 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001106111441.048bb520@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 11:16:03 -0700 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: Free X servers for Windows? Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001104182548.04abd4a0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Off-topic, I know, but I like the headers on your message: At 05:10 AM 11/6/2000, Jamie Bowden's e-mail client write: >Subject: RE: Free X servers for Windows? >In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001104182548.04abd4a0@localhost> >Message-ID: >Approved: yep >X-representing: Only myself. >X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. >X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck >X-moo: Moo. >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >X-UIDL: ae818694cb73917e5ecc4faa27087e61 --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 11:17:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from post.webmailer.de (natmail2.webmailer.de [192.67.198.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B8D337B4CF for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from wuerg (hmbdi7-212-144-176-102.arcor-ip.net [212.144.176.102]) by post.webmailer.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA16162; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:17:36 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20001106195630.009c36f0@post.strato.de> X-Sender: webmaster%nightfire.de@post.strato.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:56:30 +0100 To: John From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001105203447.00aed100@mail.udel.edu> References: <3A06063A.D8ABED27@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 20:35 05.11.00 -0500, you wrote: > >> > Yeah, I've already seen this one. Dru Lavigne posted >> > this one a while back. It's pretty funny! 8^) >> > >> > Maybe it was just a rumor. Microsoft doesn't really >> > have any plans to create a Linux/UNIX variant... >> > ....or do they? 8^P >> >> They did once already. It was called XENIX. >>If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and >>call it MS linux. > >Gotta remember that 'once upon a time' they owned (or was it that they just >had a lot of their fingers in?) SCO as well... ># Hi! IMHO you mean XENIX, the Unix that SCO sold to M$ and later got back... (Provided memory serves me right-was way befor my time, I wet my pants those times) Regards Olaf Hoyer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 13:26:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx-a.qnet.com (mx-a.qnet.com [209.221.198.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F38737B479; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from cello.qnet.com (root@cello.qnet.com [209.221.198.10]) by mx-a.qnet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26702; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from STORK (56k-socal-01-39.dial.qnet.com [209.221.198.102]) by cello.qnet.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA22488; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:26:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Heredity Choice" To: "Alfred Perlstein" , "Joe Warner" Cc: "Kris Kennaway" , Subject: RE: Microsoft Source (fwd) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:17:55 -0800 Message-ID: <000201c04837$07d4ed90$66c6ddd1@STORK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20001105170419.O5112@fw.wintelcom.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org www.mslinux.org is obviously a spoof, but very clever and amusing. The GPL would not allow Microsoft to pirate Linux code and sell it Microsoft style. At least I don't think so, but I once read that WINNT uses the Mach microkernel, which has a license very similar to the GPL. Can anybody comment? Paul Smith > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Alfred Perlstein > Sent: Sunday, 05 November, 2000 17:04 PM > To: Joe Warner > Cc: Kris Kennaway; chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) > > > * Joe Warner [001105 16:56] wrote: > > LOL!! > > > > Seriously, I heard a recent rumor that Microsoft is or has > > developed it's own version of Linux. Has anybody else > > heard of this? > > http://www.mslinux.org/ > > -Alfred > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 13:26:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx-a.qnet.com (mx-a.qnet.com [209.221.198.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1F937B4E5; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:26:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cello.qnet.com (root@cello.qnet.com [209.221.198.10]) by mx-a.qnet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26698; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from STORK (56k-socal-01-39.dial.qnet.com [209.221.198.102]) by cello.qnet.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA22446; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:26:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Heredity Choice" To: , "Joe Warner" Cc: "Alfred Perlstein" , "Kris Kennaway" , Subject: RE: Microsoft Source (fwd) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 13:17:52 -0800 Message-ID: <000101c04837$05f07620$66c6ddd1@STORK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Xenix was Microsoft's 16-bit UNIX developed to run on the IBM PC family. It was a real UNIX, multiuser and multitasking and a different ballgame from DOS. It was the first UNIX-derived OS to run on the PC platform and paved the way for FreeBSD. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO. The advent of the 32-bit I386 made Xenix obsolescent. Paul Smith > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of scanner@jurai.net > Sent: Sunday, 05 November, 2000 17:28 PM > To: Joe Warner > Cc: Alfred Perlstein; Kris Kennaway; chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) > > > On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, Joe Warner wrote: > > > Yeah, I've already seen this one. Dru Lavigne posted > > this one a while back. It's pretty funny! 8^) > > > > Maybe it was just a rumor. Microsoft doesn't really > > have any plans to create a Linux/UNIX variant... > > ....or do they? 8^P > > > They did once already. It was called XENIX. > If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and > call it MS linux. > > ================================================================== > =========== > -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek > Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., > Wellington, Kansas > Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net > ================================================================== > =========== > WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" > LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" > BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" > ================================================================== > =========== > irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 14:19: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A6537B4D7 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:19:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from box077.labs.pitt.edu ("port 2161"@[130.49.141.88]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01JW87ICNTYG005CHF@mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:19:02 EST Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:18:49 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: RE: Microsoft Source (fwd) In-reply-to: <000201c04837$07d4ed90$66c6ddd1@STORK> Originator-info: login-id=pfg1; server=imap.pitt.edu To: Heredity Choice , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <2868520678.973531129@box077.labs.pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.4, s/n S-398070] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --On Monday, November 06, 2000, 1:17 PM -0800 Heredity Choice wrote:r > > At least I don't think so, but I once read that WINNT uses the Mach > microkernel, which has a license very similar to the GPL. Can anybody > comment? > It is not the Mach microkernel AFAIK, Bill Gates hired most of the people that were working on Mach to build a complete new kernel. OTOH, even if they took code from Mach, the license is very similar to the BSD license...in fact the last time I checked, FreeBSD still had some code on the VM with this license. Of course John Dyson and Matt Dillon (among others) have changed the VM so much that I doubt the original coders from CMU would recognize it :-). cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 15:32: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from gw.nectar.com (gw.nectar.com [208.42.49.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD57137B4CF for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from hamlet.nectar.com (hamlet.nectar.com [10.0.1.102]) by gw.nectar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE122192A7; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:32:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (from nectar@localhost) by hamlet.nectar.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id eA6NW0E19793; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:32:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:32:00 -0600 From: "Jacques A. Vidrine" To: Heredity Choice Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) Message-ID: <20001106173200.C19456@hamlet.nectar.com> References: <20001105170419.O5112@fw.wintelcom.net> <000201c04837$07d4ed90$66c6ddd1@STORK> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000201c04837$07d4ed90$66c6ddd1@STORK>; from stork@QNET.COM on Mon, Nov 06, 2000 at 01:17:55PM -0800 X-Url: http://www.nectar.com/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Nov 06, 2000 at 01:17:55PM -0800, Heredity Choice wrote: > At least I don't think so, but I once read that WINNT uses the Mach > microkernel, which has a license very similar to the GPL. Can anybody > comment? Windows NT has ever used the Mach kernel. You probably read some comparisons between the design of the Windows NT Executive and the Mach kernel -- the latter because Mach was/is the best-known microkernel system. The Windows NT Executive is not a microkernel, but more of a hybrid, much like Darwin is (although Darwin actually _does_ use Mach code). -- Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / jvidrine@verio.net / nectar@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 15:51: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1B137B4E5 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10874; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:51:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAaUaqmv; Mon Nov 6 16:51:26 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA25774; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:50:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011062350.QAA25774@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) To: cfuhrman@tfcci.com (Chris Fuhrman) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:50:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chris Fuhrman" at Nov 06, 2000 08:05:12 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > They did once already. It was called XENIX. > > If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and > > call it MS linux. > > > > This got me doing some research on the subject of XENIX. Microsoft > purchased a stake in SCO sometime in the early 80's which lead to the > development and release of XENIX. In '87, Microsoft was concerned that > AT&T's UNIX wouldn't be able to run XENIX app's so they entered into a > licensing agreement with AT&T to include some XENIX code in the AT&T > base. AT&T sold it's UNIX technology to Novell in '93 who then sold it to > SCO in '95. Recently, Microsoft sold it's shares in SCO after which SCO's > shares collapsed. > > Some interesting tidbits: SCO asked M$ to drop the agreement since the > XENIX code wasn't relavant. M$ refused and as a consequence, SCO paid M$ > about $1.138 million in royalties (ouch) in FY 1998. > > Confusing, no? ;) I've been in the bowels of that code. Microsoft announced Xenix on 25 Aug 1980, the same year they signed a contract with IBM to provide compilers for the, at the time, unannounced IBM PC. Most of the original developement was done on Sun equipment, and Microsoft was actually running a large chunk of their language engineering on Xenix on Sun machines, as late as 1988 (I got a call from a Microsoft employee wanting to buy a copy of our communications software for Xenix running on Sun hardware; when I said "What?!?", he said "Oh, that's right, it's an internal product only". Originally, Xenix only ran on 68000 hardware. SCO started in 1979 as a UNIX porting and consulting company; father and son Larry and Doug Michels were the initial only employees. SCO didn't release its first XENIX until 1983, and it ran on 8086 and 8088 processors only. It wasn't until 1985 that they released 286 Xenix (and 386 Xenix was in 1987). The Microsoft licensed code includes some of the FS, part of the x.out image activator, and some other bits. Most of the code is pretty redundant these days. I'm surprised that they continue to include it. > UnixWare 2.1.3 > volcano > Copyright 1996 The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. All Rights Reserved. > Copyright 1984-1995 Novell, Inc. All Rights Reserved. > Copyright 1987, 1988 Microsoft Corp. All Rights Reserved. > U.S. Pat. No. 5,349,642 The Microsoft stuff is as described above. The Novell stuff is the ODI drivers and the NetWare client and server code, as well as the Novell Directory Services. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 16: 8: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61EE37B4D7; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:08:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16461; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:08:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAxUa4gG; Mon Nov 6 17:08:26 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA26136; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:07:53 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011070007.RAA26136@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) To: stork@QNET.COM (Heredity Choice) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:06:31 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), jswarner@uswest.net (Joe Warner), kris@FreeBSD.ORG (Kris Kennaway), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <000201c04837$07d4ed90$66c6ddd1@STORK> from "Heredity Choice" at Nov 06, 2000 01:17:55 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > www.mslinux.org is obviously a spoof, but very clever and amusing. The GPL > would not allow Microsoft to pirate Linux code and sell it Microsoft style. > > At least I don't think so, but I once read that WINNT uses the Mach > microkernel, which has a license very similar to the GPL. Can anybody > comment? Microsoft claimed that NT had a "microkernel architecture"; it really doesn't, but that was the set of buzzwords that were popular and "modern" aqt the time. I guess you could claim that having a huge number of VXDs could, in a wild stretch, be referred to as a "microkernel architecture". NT is definitely not based on MACH; its closest relative is VMS (same architect). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 23:18:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6AD37B4CF; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (spaz.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.31]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27185; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:46:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA71364; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 07:18:08 GMT (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 07:18:08 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby X-Sender: kris@spaz.huntsvilleal.com To: Sue Blake Cc: Kris Kennaway , Donn Miller , Yaroslav Halchinsky , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: REMINDER: 4.2 code freeze starts tomorrow! In-Reply-To: <20001103190012.C17894@welearn.com.au> Message-ID: X-Tech-Support-Email: bofh@catonic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Sue Blake wrote: > Have a little mercy for those of us who are sleeping soundly at 4am > beside a 386 with old SCSI rattlers. > > Sheesh, next thing someone will want to bring back the > memory-scratching. I couldn't hear anything scratch for the cooling systems in *two* of my PCs. And that's not more than five fans. (OTOH, that's six hard drives, four of which are 7200 RPM...) One of these days I'm going to coat my room in Sonex... [And the PC room... And the server room... And my office ....] ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Nov 6 23:54:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA2237B4D7 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AC0335730D; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:54:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:54:14 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd mailing lists filter Message-ID: <20001107015410.A62192@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hello, I've finally gotten sick of reading all of the same mail and various hard to keep track cc: stuff. So here is a procmail filter that filters by list-owner of every freebsd mailing list except -core and -developers. Replies and cc's to various lists are sorted correctly. Enjoy. :) Michael -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="lists-freebsd.rc" :0: * From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-advocacy :0: * From owner-freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-announce :0: * From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-arch ## Uncomment and comment out gnats stuff in the bottom :0: * From owner-freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-bugs :0: * From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-chat :0: * From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-current :0: * From owner-freebsd-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-cvs-all :0: * From owner-freebsd-cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-cvs-committers :0: * From owner-freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-isp :0: * From owner-freebsd-jobs@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-jobs :0: * From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-newbies :0: * From owner-freebsd-policy@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-policy :0: * From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-questions :0: * From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-stable :0: * From owner-freebsd-afs@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-afs :0: * From owner-freebsd-alpha@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-alpha :0: * From owner-freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-database :0: * From owner-freebsd-doc@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-doc :0: * From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-emulation :0: * From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-fs :0: * From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-hackers :0: * From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-hardware :0: * From owner-freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-i18n :0: * From owner-freebsd-ia64@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-ia64 :0: * From owner-freebsd-ipfw@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-ipfw :0: * From owner-freebsd-isdn@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-isdn :0: * From owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-java :0: * From owner-freebsd-libh@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-libh :0: * From owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-mobile :0: * From owner-freebsd-mozilla@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-mozilla :0: * From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-multimedia :0: * From owner-freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-net :0: * From owner-freebsd-platforms@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-platforms :0: * From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-ports :0: * From owner-freebsd-ppcs@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-ppc :0: * From owner-freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-scsi :0: * From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-security :0: * From owner-freebsd-security-notifications@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-security-notifications :0: * From owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-small :0: * From owner-freebsd-smp@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-smp :0: * From owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-sparc :0: * From owner-freebsd-tokenring@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-tokenring --SLDf9lqlvOQaIe6s-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 0:10:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA1637B4C5 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:08:38 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eA789o772191; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:09:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:09:50 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd mailing lists filter Message-ID: <20001107000950.K75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20001107015410.A62192@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20001107015410.A62192@peorth.iteration.net>; from keichii@iteration.net on Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 01:54:14AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 01:54:14AM -0600, Michael C . Wu wrote: > Hello, > > I've finally gotten sick of reading all of the same mail > and various hard to keep track cc: stuff. So here > is a procmail filter that filters by list-owner of every > freebsd mailing list except -core and -developers. > Replies and cc's to various lists are sorted correctly. Enjoy. :) [snip] You should try the ol' classic from Neil Blakey-Milner, :0 * ^Sender:.owner-freebsd-\/[^@]+@FreeBSD.ORG { LISTNAME=${MATCH} :0 * LISTNAME??^\/[^@]+ freebsd-${MATCH} } Will do all of that automagically... 'Course, mine actually looks like, :0 *^Sender: owner-freebsd-\/[^@]+@FreeBSD.ORG { :0 *^(From|To|Cc): .*Brett Glass /dev/null LISTNAME=${MATCH} :0 * LISTNAME??^\/[^@]+ Mail/BSD${MATCH} } ;) -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 0:16:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B7737B4CF for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:16:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3B4E15730D; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:16:36 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:16:36 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd mailing lists filter Message-ID: <20001107021636.B62356@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <20001107015410.A62192@peorth.iteration.net> <20001107000950.K75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001107000950.K75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com>; from cjclark@reflexnet.net on Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 12:09:50AM -0800 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 12:09:50AM -0800, Crist J . Clark scribbled: | On Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 01:54:14AM -0600, Michael C . Wu wrote: | You should try the ol' classic from Neil Blakey-Milner, | | :0 | * ^Sender:.owner-freebsd-\/[^@]+@FreeBSD.ORG | { | LISTNAME=${MATCH} | :0 | * LISTNAME??^\/[^@]+ | freebsd-${MATCH} | } | | Will do all of that automagically... Ah, I was too lazy to rtfm procmail regex and did it the stupid way. Thanks for the automagical enlightenment. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 6:13:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.monmouth.com (mail.monmouth.com [209.191.58.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06EA037B4D7 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 06:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from bg-tc-ppp59.monmouth.com (bg-tc-ppp59.monmouth.com [209.191.60.60]) by mail.monmouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09424 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by bg-tc-ppp59.monmouth.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id eA7EG1u05595 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:16:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <200011071416.eA7EG1u05595@bg-tc-ppp59.monmouth.com> Subject: NT Microkernel In-Reply-To: from freebsd-chat-digest at "Nov 6, 2000 11:18:49 pm" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:16:01 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 732-935-0629 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 00:06:31 +0000 (GMT) > From: Terry Lambert > Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) > > > www.mslinux.org is obviously a spoof, but very clever and amusing. The GPL > > would not allow Microsoft to pirate Linux code and sell it Microsoft style. > > > > At least I don't think so, but I once read that WINNT uses the Mach > > microkernel, which has a license very similar to the GPL. Can anybody > > comment? > > Microsoft claimed that NT had a "microkernel architecture"; it > really doesn't, but that was the set of buzzwords that were > popular and "modern" aqt the time. I guess you could claim > that having a huge number of VXDs could, in a wild stretch, be > referred to as a "microkernel architecture". NT is definitely > not based on MACH; its closest relative is VMS (same architect). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Actually, it's pretty close to a project Cutler worked on at DEC... Involving a VAX/VMS follow-up OS called Prism -- on RISC cpu's... (One of which -- DEC's PRISM CPU -- was later morphed into the ALPHA/AXP (axp standing for Almost eXactly PRISM). Which is why there was a pretty large DEC<-->MS deal where DEC got a ton of their field folks MS trained and Certified on MS products for 0$$$ and MS got a bit more of the DEC cluster code and a look at the v7.x VMS stuff. This was back when GQ Bob Palmer (who was better with Emerson and Lake 8-( btw ) was running DEC into the ground. Had DEC gone to court and done the big fight with MS and Intel, they might not be COMPAQ today. DEC killed the project (1988) and after a while Cutler and a lot of the DEC Western Research Lab in Washington moved down the road to Redmond to do NT. (Some of this info is in the book Showstopper)... http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWS2000/news/fromms/kanoarchitect.asp Bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 6:20:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E8637B4C5 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 06:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 13t9b7-0000yI-00; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:19:37 +0200 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:19:37 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: "Michael C . Wu" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd mailing lists filter Message-ID: <20001107161937.J99991@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <20001107015410.A62192@peorth.iteration.net> <20001107000950.K75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001107000950.K75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com>; from cjclark@reflexnet.net on Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 12:09:50AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Crist J . Clark on 2000-11-07 (Tue) at 00:09:50 -0800: > > You should try the ol' classic from Neil Blakey-Milner, > > :0 > * ^Sender:.owner-freebsd-\/[^@]+@FreeBSD.ORG > { > LISTNAME=${MATCH} > :0 > * LISTNAME??^\/[^@]+ > freebsd-${MATCH} > } > > Will do all of that automagically... And something similar for users of the Exim MTA to add to their .forward files: if ${sender_address} matches "^owner-freebsd-([a-z-]*)@FreeBSD\.ORG\\$" then save ${home}/Mail/freebsd/${1} endif Mine is actually a bit more complex as well. Yeah, and I got the idea from Neil too. :-) -- Johann To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 6:47:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D2D37B4CF for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 06:47:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA49225; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:47:17 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NT Microkernel References: <200011071416.eA7EG1u05595@bg-tc-ppp59.monmouth.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Nov 2000 15:47:16 +0100 In-Reply-To: Bill Pechter's message of "Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:16:01 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bill Pechter writes: > DEC killed the project (1988) and after a while Cutler and a lot of the DEC > Western Research Lab in Washington moved down the road to Redmond to do > NT. (Some of this info is in the book Showstopper)... Do you know there's a "Cutler fanclub" website - probably part of Micrososft's astroturf campaign: http://home.wt.net/shannonh/ DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 8:17:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.cho.cstone.net (mail.cstone.net [209.145.64.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9841437B4CF for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 08:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from cstone.net (aylee.mrgoodbucks.com [209.145.93.143]) by mail.cho.cstone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eA7GH9i31083 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:17:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A082B85.DF7FDD3E@cstone.net> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:19:17 -0500 From: Sean Michael Whipkey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: IP3000.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone heard of them before? They've been pounding our website something fierce lately, and it looks like they have more hits on it than anybody else save our NOCOL monitoring. SeanMike -- SeanMike Whipkey - "The Man. The goatee. The reputation." - Kimmet "What the hell is wrong with that boy?!?" - Adrienne Uphoff "What the French lack in reason they make up for in sheer gall." - Onion "Did anyone else read this and think of SeanMike?" - Leybourne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 8:43:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.smed.com (smtp.smed.com [12.20.51.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B5E37B4C5 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 08:43:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpgate.shrmed.com (keymaster.smed.com [12.20.51.2]) by smtp.smed.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD6616179 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:43:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from iesa14.shrmed.com (iesa14.shrmed.com [10.1.99.114]) by smtpgate.shrmed.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06932 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:43:24 -0500 From: Joe.Warner@smed.com Received: from Deimos.smed.com (unverified) by iesa14.shrmed.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with SMTP id ; Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:43:16 -0500 Received: by Deimos.smed.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 85256990.005BAE2F ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:41:23 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SMS To: Sean Michael Whipkey Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-Id: <85256990.005BAD40.00@Deimos.smed.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:43:57 -0700 Subject: Re: IP3000.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Registrant: IP 3000, INC (IP61-DOM) 427 Chestnut # 1 San Francisco, CA 94133 US Domain Name: IP3000.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact, Billing Contact: John Pike (JP637-ORG) John@IP3000.COM IP 3000, Inc. 427 Chestnut #1 San Francisco , CA 94133 US 415 956 8368 Record last updated on 03-Feb-2000. Record expires on 03-May-2001. Record created on 03-May-1999. Database last updated on 6-Nov-2000 06:03:01 EST. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.IP3000.COM 216.200.196.8 NS2.IP3000.COM 209.133.111.155 MS4-WEBSD = The Power To Serve MS4! http://ms4-websd.ms4.shrmed.com |--------+-----------------------> | | Sean Michael | | | Whipkey | | | | | | | | | 11/07/00 | | | 09:19 AM | | | | |--------+-----------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG | | cc: (bcc: Joe Warner/SMS) | | Subject: IP3000.com | >---------------------------------------------------------| Has anyone heard of them before? They've been pounding our website something fierce lately, and it looks like they have more hits on it than anybody else save our NOCOL monitoring. SeanMike -- SeanMike Whipkey - "The Man. The goatee. The reputation." - Kimmet "What the hell is wrong with that boy?!?" - Adrienne Uphoff "What the French lack in reason they make up for in sheer gall." - Onion "Did anyone else read this and think of SeanMike?" - Leybourne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 12:27:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA6337B479 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA51356; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 21:27:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Nov 2000 21:27:47 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> god works in mysterious ways 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> freebsd on the other hand, has man pages DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 13:44:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD03E37B479; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id eA7Likx09954; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:44:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:44:46 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001107134445.E5112@fw.wintelcom.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 09:27:47PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [001107 12:28] wrote: > 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> god works in mysterious ways > 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> freebsd on the other hand, has man pages It is quite funny can we bring it into fortune? "god works in mysterious ways. freebsd on the other hand, has man pages" thanks, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 15:56: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (winston.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.27.229]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9522B37B479; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:56:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from winston.osd.bsdi.com (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by winston.osd.bsdi.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id eA7NtfI73347; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:55:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com) To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet In-Reply-To: Message from Alfred Perlstein of "Tue, 07 Nov 2000 13:44:46 PST." <20001107134445.E5112@fw.wintelcom.net> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 15:55:41 -0800 Message-ID: <73343.973641341@winston.osd.bsdi.com> From: Jordan Hubbard Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I don't get it. > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [001107 12:28] wrote: > > 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> god works in mysterious ways > > 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> freebsd on the other hand, has man pages > > It is quite funny can we bring it into fortune? > > "god works in mysterious ways. freebsd on the other hand, has man pages" > > thanks, > -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 16:10:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail17.bigmailbox.com (mail17.bigmailbox.com [209.132.220.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E549437B479; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: œby mail17.bigmailbox.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15427; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:16:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:16:01 -0800 Message-Id: <200011080016.QAA15427@mail17.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [63.17.252.202] From: "gummibear@nettaxi.com" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Comdex Anyone? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all! Comdex is comming up next week. My company is sending me there (although they're being mighty cheap about it) for two days. I'll be driving up on Wednesday afternoon. I'll be there for the last two days of the show (should be less hectic, although this is my first Comdex so I don't know how they are). I was wondering if anyone of you were going to Comdex next week and what days will you be there? I'm also curious to know if BSD will be represented at Comdex since Linux seems to be pretty much well represented. If enough BSD folk go, maybe we can setup some sort of meeting or maybe can have a gathering for dinner, lunch, or something. Cheers, Joey ------------------------------------------------------------ Nettaxi MP3 Player, Burner, Ripper - NEW Version 2.0!!! DOWNLOAD IT FREE! (5MBs) MP3 DOWNLOAD: http://www.nettaxi.com/mp3/version_2/ntxy_MP3_setup.exe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 17:49:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E856637B479; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27518; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:48:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAtcaGC1; Tue Nov 7 18:48:01 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02034; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:48:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet To: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:48:51 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <73343.973641341@winston.osd.bsdi.com> from "Jordan Hubbard" at Nov 07, 2000 03:55:41 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I don't get it. > > > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [001107 12:28] wrote: > > > 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> god works in mysterious ways > > > 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> freebsd on the other hand, has man pages > > > > It is quite funny can we bring it into fortune? > > > > "god works in mysterious ways. freebsd on the other hand, has man pages" > > > > thanks, > > -Alfred It's a lead-in to a quote from Cowper: "God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform, He plants His feet upon the sea and rides upon the storm." It's most often quoted (and was actually incorporated into a Hymn) with a period instead of a comma at the end of the first line. The earliest non-Cowper reference I can find is 1951. It was also said in the movie "The Ten Commandments", which is probably where most people got it. The joke is supposed to be that God works in mysterious ways, but FreeBSD does not, since, unlike God, FreeBSD has man pages. There's kind of a double joke there, since there was a man page published for "god(1)" back in the early Usenet days (my memory of it is mid 1980's), a different joke. It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the "his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston fan. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 18:56:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE7B237B479 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.15 #3) id 13tLPJ-0000P5-00; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 02:56:13 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 02:56:13 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108025613.C845@hand.dotat.at> References: <73343.973641341@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > >It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the >"his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the >reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston >fan. Some people might consider the bible to be god's manual page, but it looks more like Gnu info documentation to me. Tony. -- en oeccget g mtcaa f.a.n.finch v spdlkishrhtewe y dot@dotat.at eatp o v eiti i d. fanf@covalent.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 7 19:58:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205FF37B479 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from stade.demon.co.uk ([158.152.29.164]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 13tMNs-000Ooz-0A; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 03:58:49 +0000 Received: from titus.stade.co.uk (titus.stade.co.uk [192.168.1.5]) by stade.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24680; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 03:17:24 GMT (envelope-from aw1@titus.stade.co.uk) Received: (from aw1@localhost) by titus.stade.co.uk (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eA83FR464285; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 03:15:27 GMT (envelope-from aw1) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 03:15:27 +0000 From: Adrian Wontroba To: "Thomas M. Sommers" Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Free X servers for Windows? Message-ID: <20001108031527.B58790@titus.stade.co.uk> Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk Mail-Followup-To: Adrian Wontroba , "Thomas M. Sommers" , Rahul Siddharthan , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20001023132415.L16719@lpt.ens.fr> <3A049F18.EB82C6C6@mail.ptd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <3A049F18.EB82C6C6@mail.ptd.net>; from tms2@mail.ptd.net on Sat, Nov 04, 2000 at 06:43:20PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1.1-STABLE Organization: Yes, I need some of that. X-Phone: +(44) 121 681 6677 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Nov 04, 2000 at 06:43:20PM -0500, Thomas M. Sommers wrote: > Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > Hi all: Are there any good free X servers available for Windows? > > Any user experiences out there? If not, what are the good > > commercial ones? > This one used to be free, now they apparently want $25 for it: > http://www.microimages.com/mix/ I use this sometimes. I've got a possibly elderly version, which has a few minor problems, such as xterm displays not always refreshing properly. The free trial 14(?) day countdown is a bit erratic, so if you are sure you want to carry on using it, pay up early. It is certainly adequate for the light use I put it to. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 2:21:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A275337B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 02:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA57783; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:21:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet References: <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Nov 2000 11:21:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Wed, 8 Nov 2000 01:48:51 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 16 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the > "his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the > reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston > fan. This is a very obfuscated way of saying "I think so little of you that I don't think any of you will get this joke, but I, on the other hand, being better educated than any of you, understand it." Get real. Nobody in Norway who's got enough brain cells to operate FreeBSD will have any trouble understanding the joke. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 2:30:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE9D37B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 02:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id eA8AUNE02988; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 02:30:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 02:30:22 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Terry Lambert , Jordan Hubbard , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108023022.T5112@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 11:21:45AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Dag-Erling Smorgrav [001108 02:22] wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the > > "his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the > > reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston > > fan. > > This is a very obfuscated way of saying "I think so little of you that > I don't think any of you will get this joke, but I, on the other hand, > being better educated than any of you, understand it." > > Get real. Nobody in Norway who's got enough brain cells to operate > FreeBSD will have any trouble understanding the joke. I'm not familiar with anything Terry brought up, but yet the quote made me laugh. *shrug* Maybe if I was under -release crunch mode like our release engineer I'd have a rough time finding humour in things right now. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 2:31:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F67437B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 02:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id eA8AVjM72003 ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:31:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id LAA51921 ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:31:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:31:45 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Terry Lambert , Jordan Hubbard , Alfred Perlstein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108113145.H48888@lpt.ens.fr> References: <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 11:21:45AM +0100 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav said on Nov 8, 2000 at 11:21:45: > Terry Lambert writes: > > It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the > > "his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the > > reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston > > fan. > > This is a very obfuscated way of saying "I think so little of you that > I don't think any of you will get this joke, but I, on the other hand, > being better educated than any of you, understand it." > > Get real. Nobody in Norway who's got enough brain cells to operate > FreeBSD will have any trouble understanding the joke. Incidentally, the God quotation would also be familiar to anyone who reads P G Wodehouse. But I don't think it's necessary to be familiar with the quote to get the joke :) R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 9:11:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B3E37B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:11:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13709; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:12:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA0VaOTA; Wed Nov 8 10:12:07 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19291; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:11:32 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet To: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:11:32 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Nov 08, 2000 11:21:45 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the > > "his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the > > reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston > > fan. > > This is a very obfuscated way of saying "I think so little of you that > I don't think any of you will get this joke, but I, on the other hand, > being better educated than any of you, understand it." Don't get your panties in a bunch. I don't think "well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston fan" translates directly to "better educated". You must really be an avid reader, a devout Christion, or a very big Heston fan to make this leap of illogic. > Get real. Nobody in Norway who's got enough brain cells to operate > FreeBSD will have any trouble understanding the joke. Hardly. Jordan's American, and it's a predominantly English joke, so him saying he didn't get it was pretty indicative that it didn't travel well. I don't know if Jordan is an avid reader or not, or whether he's a devout Christian, or not, but I'm pretty sure that his views on gun ownership are well enough known that we could probably say that the Heston association is tenuous, at best (don't know if you are in the U.S. or not, but Heston is spokesperson for the NRA -- National Rifle Association). The basis of the joke required people to complete an _English_ phrase in their mind to make the association. I maintain that the joke is anglocentric. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 9:30:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D1537B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 226755730D; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:30:42 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:30:42 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108113041.B74554@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 05:11:32PM +0000 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 05:11:32PM +0000, Terry Lambert scribbled: | The basis of the joke required people to complete an _English_ | phrase in their mind to make the association. I maintain that | the joke is anglocentric. Almost all of FreeBSD is Anglocentric, since the early codebase was written mostly by Americans. Otherwise, we would not have the basesystem binaries stripping 8th-bit's and programmers thinking that ASCII is the only charset one ever needs. That said, I wonder why K&R/Stroustrup made the function names so hard for non-English speakers to pronounce. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 9:30:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C8E37B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id eA8HUSM18157 ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:30:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id SAA69119 ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:30:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:30:28 +0100 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Terry Lambert Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jordan Hubbard , Alfred Perlstein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108183028.F65938@lpt.ens.fr> References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 05:11:32PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert said on Nov 8, 2000 at 17:11:32: > > > It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the > > > "his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the > > > reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston > > > fan. -snip- > The basis of the joke required people to complete an _English_ > phrase in their mind to make the association. I maintain that > the joke is anglocentric. You may be right -- I know I mentally completed the phrase when reading it, though I'm only familiar with it through Bertie Wooster. But it seems to me that even the incompletely understood joke "God works in mysterious ways, but FreeBSD has man pages" (or whatever the exact words were) is funny. People may not know the quotation in the first half, but it's pretty obvious that it's a quotation, and the sentence makes sense by itself even without the "wonders to perform" part. R. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 9:35:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F51937B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10975; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:33:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAI8aqyv; Wed Nov 8 10:33:22 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19984; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:35:12 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011081735.KAA19984@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet To: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:35:11 +0000 (GMT) Cc: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001108113145.H48888@lpt.ens.fr> from "Rahul Siddharthan" at Nov 08, 2000 11:31:45 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Incidentally, the God quotation would also be familiar to anyone who > reads P G Wodehouse. But I don't think it's necessary to be familiar > with the quote to get the joke :) I disagree; without the implied "his wonders to perform", it's just a set of unrelated sentences. The only thing that makes such things funny is cognitive dissonance. Without the implied end to the sentence, it could as easily be saying that FreeBSD's man pages are inpenetrable. It's split infinitive on the order of "You can't put too much water in a nuclear reactor" or "You can't look too long at a nuclear cloud". The humor there might be metahumor, based on people's observable reactions ("Wait, does that mean I shouldn't put more than a certain amount of water into a nuclear reactor, or does it mean that no matter how much water I put it, it will never be too much?"). But because the ambiguity in interpretation can't play on an inherent bias about the readers opinion of FreeBSD, it loses most or all of its humor. With the implied ending to the first sentence, we have cognitive dissonance, and a much better joke. It's on the order of a classic "shaggy dog" story, or a Haiku, where the ending takes you by surprise, and it's this disconnect between your expectation and the reality that results in the humor. FWIW: "The Far Side" humor works the same way. Some people just don't get "The Far Side". I've become convinced that, at least for the majority of these people, it's because they read the caption before looking at the picture, and forming their own opinion of what's going on. Without this step, there is no set up for cognitive dissonance, and it merely becomes "yeah, that's a picture of what the caption was describing", rather than "wow, that's a totally bizarre interpretation of the picture, which I was not expecting!". Mostly, these people tend to give you the "will they leave my office before I need a stick?" look, and not laugh. The great thing about such humor is that what you are laughing at is really the incorrectness your own assumptions; if you are laughing at anyone's expense, it's your own. I'd say that if you can laugh at yourself, you aren't laughing at your expense, you're laughing to your credit; it means you are keeping an open mind, which is a prerequisite for honest scientific inquiry. NB: the "nuclear" examples were taken from Ed Asner's appearance on Saturday Night Live, just so I'm not accidently credited where it's not due... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 9:49:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0652737B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15128; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:47:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAZ0a4AD; Wed Nov 8 10:47:33 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA20426; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:49:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011081749.KAA20426@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet To: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:49:21 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001108183028.F65938@lpt.ens.fr> from "Rahul Siddharthan" at Nov 08, 2000 06:30:28 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > You may be right -- I know I mentally completed the phrase when > reading it, though I'm only familiar with it through Bertie Wooster. > But it seems to me that even the incompletely understood joke > "God works in mysterious ways, but FreeBSD has man pages" > (or whatever the exact words were) is funny. People may not > know the quotation in the first half, but it's pretty obvious that > it's a quotation, and the sentence makes sense by itself > even without the "wonders to perform" part. Maybe. The original quotation had two seperate sentences, without a conjoining "but" or "and". I guess this could have been implied in the mind of the reader by their otherwise being totally unrelated to one another's topic. I could probably also argue that you picked "but" because you completed the phrase mentally. I still think that including the remainder of the sentence makes for a more universally comprehensible joke. I keep thinking of the joke being translated into another language, without the cultural baggage needed for completion of the sentence, and wonder how well that baggage would be implied. Of course, computer programmers as a class tend, more than other professions, to have English literacy, and have a (some would say perverse) tendency toward puns and other word and language games, which closely correlate to their skills as programmers. I've often wondered if this would still be true, if many of the first computer scientists and computer language designers didn't have a background in cognitive psychology; maybe it's just built into the software legacy these people left us, and isn't really a skill that would be required to tell computer equipment how to solve problems. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:12:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA63E37B4C5; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA59983; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:12:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Nov 2000 19:12:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:11:32 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > The basis of the joke required people to complete an _English_ > phrase in their mind to make the association. I maintain that > the joke is anglocentric. This is absolute, complete, utter, first-rate US-centric bullshit. "The Lord works in mysterious ways" (independently of the rest of your quote) is a colloquial expression in France and Norway, and probably in other european countries as well. Jordan is hardly a statistically representative cross-section of the FreeBSD community. I'm tempted to theorise that the phrase did not originate with the book you quoted, but rather that its author used an expression his readers were already familiar with. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:14:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3FC637B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA60002; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:14:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Terry Lambert Cc: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet References: <200011081735.KAA19984@usr08.primenet.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Nov 2000 19:14:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:35:11 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > FWIW: "The Far Side" humor works the same way. Some people just > don't get "The Far Side". I've become convinced that, at least > for the majority of these people, it's because they read the > caption before looking at the picture, and forming their own > opinion of what's going on. Without this step, there is no set > up for cognitive dissonance, and it merely becomes "yeah, that's > a picture of what the caption was describing", rather than "wow, > that's a totally bizarre interpretation of the picture, which I > was not expecting!". Expect that Far Side jokes are quite often the exact opposite of what you claim - unusual and humoristic interpretations of a common phrase. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:28:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBB937B4CF; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA60089; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:28:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Nov 2000 19:28:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of "08 Nov 2000 19:12:06 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav writes: > I'm tempted to theorise that the phrase did not originate with the > book you quoted, but rather that its author used an expression his > readers were already familiar with. And I was right! Sorry, Terry, but you were once again caught with your foot deeply ensconced within your mouth. "Truly, O God of Israel, our Savior, you work in strange and mysterious ways." -- Isaiah 45:15 "God's ways are as hard to discern as the pathways of the wind, and as mysterious as a tiny baby being formed in a mother's womb." -- Ecclesiastes 11:5 DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:53: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119FC37B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16217; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:53:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAkqaOuF; Wed Nov 8 11:53:07 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA21953; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:52:29 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011081852.LAA21953@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet To: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:52:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Nov 08, 2000 07:12:06 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > The basis of the joke required people to complete an _English_ > > phrase in their mind to make the association. I maintain that > > the joke is anglocentric. > > This is absolute, complete, utter, first-rate US-centric bullshit. > "The Lord works in mysterious ways" (independently of the rest of your > quote) is a colloquial expression in France and Norway, and probably > in other european countries as well. I don't know why you have it in for me for the past couple of days, but I have to say that the rabid ad hominim attacks getting tiring. The _precise_ quote Alfred posted from IRC was: | 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> god works in mysterious ways | 09:26 #freebsd mcmc> freebsd on the other hand, has man pages I think even you will have to agree that the text quoted above was written in English. > Jordan is hardly a statistically representative cross-section of > the FreeBSD community. Perhaps it was merely an example of his "fairings" humor, in which he was pretending to be "mystified". I rather suspect that his posting was made tongue in cheek; I only made mine because, while his posting had a high probability of being a joke, there were, IMO, people who would not have gotten the original joke, and I liked it enough to want them to get it. > I'm tempted to theorise that the phrase did not originate with the > book you quoted, but rather that its author used an expression his > readers were already familiar with. Feel free; if you can find a reference which predates 1687, in any language, I'll be happy to reference it instead. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:54:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0771237B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16853; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:53:05 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108115049.0498bf00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:52:58 -0700 To: Terry Lambert , rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in (Rahul Siddharthan) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200011081749.KAA20426@usr08.primenet.com> References: <20001108183028.F65938@lpt.ens.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:49 AM 11/8/2000, Terry Lambert wrote: >Of course, computer programmers as a class tend, more than >other professions, to have English literacy, and have a >(some would say perverse) tendency toward puns and other word >and language games, which closely correlate to their skills >as programmers. Some do. Others seem completely humorless, perhaps because they are obsessed with precision and can't abide the ambiguity demanded by a pun. Some who fall into this category are absolutely brilliant but impossibly hard to work with. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:56: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6084B37B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:56:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17475; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:56:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAyOaG8H; Wed Nov 8 11:56:17 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA22115; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:55:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011081855.LAA22115@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet To: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:55:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Dag-Erling Smorgrav" at Nov 08, 2000 07:28:19 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I'm tempted to theorise that the phrase did not originate with the > > book you quoted, but rather that its author used an expression his > > readers were already familiar with. > > And I was right! Sorry, Terry, but you were once again caught with > your foot deeply ensconced within your mouth. > > "Truly, O God of Israel, our Savior, you work in strange and > mysterious ways." -- Isaiah 45:15 > > "God's ways are as hard to discern as the pathways of the wind, > and as mysterious as a tiny baby being formed in a mother's > womb." -- Ecclesiastes 11:5 You are a moron. 1) The text is not the same. 2) Neither one of them makes the joke work. 3) In neither case are wonders being performed. Plonk! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:56:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0031637B4CF; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16925; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:56:16 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108115409.04b755e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:56:10 -0700 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The irony of all of this is that the man pages rarely give much insight into how FreeBSD actually *works*. They document the APIs and userland commands, which (as we all know) can be implemented on systems that work in very different, strange, and (yes) mysterious ways. --Brett At 11:28 AM 11/8/2000, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >And I was right! Sorry, Terry, but you were once again caught with >your foot deeply ensconced within your mouth. > > "Truly, O God of Israel, our Savior, you work in strange and > mysterious ways." -- Isaiah 45:15 > > "God's ways are as hard to discern as the pathways of the wind, > and as mysterious as a tiny baby being formed in a mother's > womb." -- Ecclesiastes 11:5 > >DES >-- >Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 10:57:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA3237B4C5; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:57:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA60279; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:57:39 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet References: <200011081852.LAA21953@usr08.primenet.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Nov 2000 19:57:37 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:52:29 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > The _precise_ quote Alfred posted from IRC was: Ahem. No. *I* posted it. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 11: 0:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B518837B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA60296; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:00:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Terry Lambert Cc: jkh@winston.osd.bsdi.com (Jordan Hubbard), bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein), chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet References: <200011081855.LAA22115@usr08.primenet.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Nov 2000 20:00:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of "Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:55:36 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 23 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert writes: > You are a moron. It apparently takes one to know one. > 1) The text is not the same. It is close enough that there is very little doubt in my mind that the author you quoted was paraphrasing either one of the two bible passages I quoted. > 2) Neither one of them makes the joke work. So? That's not the point. > 3) In neither case are wonders being performed. The original quote I submitted for inclusion in fortune did not mention wonders either. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 11:19:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.wetworks.org (shell.wetworks.org [63.160.175.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5DA7E37B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16459 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2000 19:19:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO diskfarm.firehouse.net) (10.0.0.28) by 192.168.1.2 with SMTP; 8 Nov 2000 19:19:07 -0000 Received: (from abc@localhost) by diskfarm.firehouse.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eA8JMcp41769 for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:22:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from abc) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:22:38 -0500 From: Alan Clegg To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108142238.C39949@diskfarm.firehouse.net> References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 07:12:06PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Unless the network is lying to me again, Dag-Erling Smorgrav said: > Jordan is hardly a statistically > representative cross-section of the FreeBSD community. Jordan not understanding the quote was my reason for immediate agreement that the quote should be included.. AlanC To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 11:19:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CEED37B479 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from parish ([62.253.84.243]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20001108191946.WPTC270.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@parish>; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:19:46 +0000 Received: (from mark@localhost) by parish (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eA8JJnR01450; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:19:49 GMT (envelope-from mark) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:19:48 +0000 From: Mark Ovens To: Tony Finch Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108191948.B254@parish> References: <73343.973641341@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> <20001108025613.C845@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001108025613.C845@hand.dotat.at>; from dot@dotat.at on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 02:56:13AM +0000 Organization: Total lack of Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 02:56:13AM +0000, Tony Finch wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > > >It doesn't really translate or travel very well, since the > >"his wonders to perform" was truncated, and assumes that the > >reader is either well read, Christian, or a Charleton Heston > >fan. > > Some people might consider the bible to be god's manual page, > but it looks more like Gnu info documentation to me. > Hmm, so what does that make RMS? The Second Coming? > Tony. > -- > en oeccget g mtcaa f.a.n.finch > v spdlkishrhtewe y dot@dotat.at > eatp o v eiti i d. fanf@covalent.net > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- 4.4 - The number of the Beastie ________________________________________________________________ 51.44°N FreeBSD - The Power To Serve http://www.freebsd.org 2.057°W My Webpage http://ukug.uk.freebsd.org/~mark mailto:marko@freebsd.org http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 11:24:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F052A37B4CF for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.15 #3) id 13tapN-0000u7-00; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 19:24:09 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:24:09 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: "Michael C . Wu" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108192409.C3373@hand.dotat.at> References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> <20001108113041.B74554@peorth.iteration.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20001108113041.B74554@peorth.iteration.net> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Michael C . Wu" wrote: > >Almost all of FreeBSD is Anglocentric, since the early codebase was >written mostly by Americans. He meant "Anglocentric" in the sense of country rather than language, in the same way that an Anglophile is someone who likes England and English people. Tony (who spells it "colour" and "theatre" etc. etc.). -- en oeccget g mtcaa f.a.n.finch v spdlkishrhtewe y dot@dotat.at eatp o v eiti i d. fanf@covalent.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 11:40:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFC437B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:40:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17379; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:40:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108123857.04a0d740@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:40:14 -0700 To: Mark Ovens , Tony Finch From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001108191948.B254@parish> References: <20001108025613.C845@hand.dotat.at> <73343.973641341@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> <20001108025613.C845@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:19 PM 11/8/2000, Mark Ovens wrote: >> Some people might consider the bible to be god's manual page, >> but it looks more like Gnu info documentation to me. >> > >Hmm, so what does that make RMS? The Second Coming? There is no Gnu but the One True Blue Gnu, and Stallman is his prophet. ;-) --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 12: 4:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hellasnet.gr (mail.hellasnet.gr [212.54.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19EA37B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from hades.hell.gr (ppp2.patr.hellasnet.gr [212.54.197.17]) by mail.hellasnet.gr (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08203; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:03:12 -0200 (GMT) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eA8JneS17254; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:49:40 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:49:40 +0200 (EET) From: Giorgos Keramidas Message-Id: <200011081949.eA8JneS17254@hades.hell.gr> To: rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in, tlambert@primenet.com Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: bright@wintelcom.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, des@ofug.org, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001108183028.F65938@lpt.ens.fr> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan writes: >Terry Lambert said on Nov 8, 2000 at 17:11:32: >> The basis of the joke required people to complete an _English_ phrase >> in their mind to make the association. I maintain that the joke is >> anglocentric. > > But it seems to me that even the incompletely understood joke "God works in > mysterious ways, but FreeBSD has man pages" (or whatever the exact words > were) is funny. English is not my native tongue, and I did complete the phrase's illogical sequence in my mind with something like: - (The) God (that some people believe in) works in mysterious ways, - FreeBSD on the other hand (which is the god of others) has manpages (and nothing so mysterious about it.) It sure made my afternoon a lot nicer to get a tremendous laugh out of such a beautiful joke/pun. The fact that our (overworked?) release-engineer-simulation perl script did not get the joke at first might be caused by a very simple reason. He's too tired these days to have the strength to dig in his brains yet another time, this time not to debug/test an entire release's but a littl' joke. Let us all say *hurrah* for Jordan. - giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 12: 6:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E657C37B479 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 55616 invoked by uid 1003); 8 Nov 2000 20:05:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:05:30 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Terry Lambert Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jordan Hubbard , Alfred Perlstein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108220530.A41158@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <200011081855.LAA22115@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200011081855.LAA22115@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 06:55:36PM +0000 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386 X-URL: http://mithrandr.moria.org/nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed 2000-11-08 (18:55), Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I'm tempted to theorise that the phrase did not originate with the > > > book you quoted, but rather that its author used an expression his > > > readers were already familiar with. > > > > And I was right! Sorry, Terry, but you were once again caught with > > your foot deeply ensconced within your mouth. > > > > "Truly, O God of Israel, our Savior, you work in strange and > > mysterious ways." -- Isaiah 45:15 > > > > "God's ways are as hard to discern as the pathways of the wind, > > and as mysterious as a tiny baby being formed in a mother's > > womb." -- Ecclesiastes 11:5 > > You are a moron. > > 1) The text is not the same. > 2) Neither one of them makes the joke work. > 3) In neither case are wonders being performed. > > Plonk! While I have a reasonably strong Anglocentric reading, watching, and laughing bias, I agree with DES on this. "God works in mysterious ways" is something I've heard over and again in churches, sermons, and writings of all sorts, and the Isaiah 45:15 quote is one I've often seen used in conjunction with it. I think the translation I'm used to starts something like "Verily, O Lord...", though. Calling him a moron doesn't make him any more right or wrong. Your points are pretty invalid too. 1) "Truly, O God..., you work in strange and mysterious ways" -> "God works in mysterious ways" is a pretty obvious move. 2) It made the joke work for me. And basically everyone I mentioned it to. A number, when asked where "The Lord works in mysterious ways" originates, mentioned the Bible, and one even suggested Isaiah. Since I don't have a Bible, I can't verify it, but I see no reason to doubt DES. 3) I don't understand. The joke is obvious to me - "God works in mysterious ways" is something I've heard over and again, and then add "FreeBSD has man pages" for one of two main reactions, the most common being "but ...". (Religious flamebait removed, but nevertheless it makes the joke more amusing to me) While your mentioned book may have popularised the phrase (I can't say it made me remember anything, although the Wodehouse comment by someone else made me ponder the type of humour it reminded me of), it's a very complex and twisted route that is adequately explained by the quote above. Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 12: 8:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 306E737B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 56172 invoked by uid 1003); 8 Nov 2000 20:08:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:08:07 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Brett Glass Cc: Mark Ovens , Tony Finch , Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108220807.B41158@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <20001108025613.C845@hand.dotat.at> <73343.973641341@winston.osd.bsdi.com> <200011080148.SAA02034@usr08.primenet.com> <20001108025613.C845@hand.dotat.at> <20001108191948.B254@parish> <4.3.2.7.2.20001108123857.04a0d740@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108123857.04a0d740@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 12:40:14PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386 X-URL: http://mithrandr.moria.org/nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed 2000-11-08 (12:40), Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:19 PM 11/8/2000, Mark Ovens wrote: > > >> Some people might consider the bible to be god's manual page, > >> but it looks more like Gnu info documentation to me. > >> > > > >Hmm, so what does that make RMS? The Second Coming? > > There is no Gnu but the One True Blue Gnu, and Stallman is > his prophet. ;-) I was playing guide to Eric Raymond last week, and he made the observation that (badly quoted) "all the GNU propoganda must be changed, Richard, that's a Cape Buffalo, not a Gnu, as your logo". Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 13: 6:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peorth.iteration.net (peorth.iteration.net [208.190.180.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6009837B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 13:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by peorth.iteration.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7C43A5730D; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:06:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:06:26 -0600 From: "Michael C . Wu" To: Tony Finch Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108150626.B75393@peorth.iteration.net> Reply-To: "Michael C . Wu" References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> <20001108113041.B74554@peorth.iteration.net> <20001108192409.C3373@hand.dotat.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001108192409.C3373@hand.dotat.at>; from dot@dotat.at on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 07:24:09PM +0000 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 5025 F691 F943 8128 48A8 5025 77CE 29C5 8FA1 2E20 X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x8FA12E20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 07:24:09PM +0000, Tony Finch scribbled: | "Michael C . Wu" wrote: | >Almost all of FreeBSD is Anglocentric, since the early codebase was | >written mostly by Americans. | | He meant "Anglocentric" in the sense of country rather than language, | in the same way that an Anglophile is someone who likes England and | English people. Yes, I know what he meant, and was referring to the country too. :) | Tony (who spells it "colour" and "theatre" etc. etc.). To this day, I still have "colour" and "color" in the same papers that I write because I learned from both systems from different teachers. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net | | http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 14:19:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from morpheus.skynet.be (morpheus.skynet.be [195.238.2.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F1337B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:19:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup368.brussels.skynet.be [195.238.20.112]) by morpheus.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012E7D9B6; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:19:12 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:34:19 +0100 To: Terry Lambert From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 5:11 PM +0000 2000/11/8, Terry Lambert wrote: > Hardly. Jordan's American, and it's a predominantly English > joke, so him saying he didn't get it was pretty indicative > that it didn't travel well. I'm an American as well, and I got it the moment I saw the original message from DES. Just because he's an American doesn't necessarily mean that this is the reason he doesn't get it, or that other Americans won't get it. Contrariwise, you may be right that many Americans won't get it, but I must say that my own personal experience is that I think most of them probably will. In particular, I believe that a large majority of Americans are either relatively religious, or have friends or family that are relatively religious (an Uncle of mine is a preacher, and one of the best men at my wedding studied for a few years in Seminary and is now on his way to becoming a Deacon). I believe that most people who are relatively religious or have family or friends that are relatively religious are likely to get the joke -- they may not appreciate it, but they should get it. You are correct that the other group of people that are likely to get the joke are going to tend to be better educated and probably film buffs, but if you put all the better educated film buffs together with all the people that are relatively religious or have friends or family that are relatively religious, well that's probably a good percentage of the population of the US, and I would say that this would probably cover a considerably higher percentage of the FreeBSD membership. In other words, don't worry -- be happy. Besides, there's plenty of stuff already in the fortune database that is *far* more obtuse than something like this. If even just a small percentage of the people on this list get the joke and appreciate it, I think that's good enough reason to put it into the database. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 14:19:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from morpheus.skynet.be (morpheus.skynet.be [195.238.2.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7EF37B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup368.brussels.skynet.be [195.238.20.112]) by morpheus.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE38DCDC; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:19:24 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200011081735.KAA19984@usr08.primenet.com> References: <200011081735.KAA19984@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:39:01 +0100 To: Terry Lambert From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 5:35 PM +0000 2000/11/8, Terry Lambert wrote: > I disagree; without the implied "his wonders to perform", it's > just a set of unrelated sentences. The only thing that makes > such things funny is cognitive dissonance. Without the implied > end to the sentence, it could as easily be saying that FreeBSD's > man pages are inpenetrable. It's split infinitive on the order of > "You can't put too much water in a nuclear reactor" or "You can't > look too long at a nuclear cloud". Professor, methinks thou doth protest too much. ;-) Seriously, I think you're *way* over-reacting, and reading *way* too much into this. I believe I got the joke as it was originally intended, and frankly the very first time I ever heard (or saw) the "his wonders to perform" part was just a few moments ago when I read your previous e-mail message on this topic. IMO, if you over-analyze *any* joke, it's almost certain to fall apart and cease to be funny any more. You're certainly taking a lot of the fun out of this joke for me by continuing on this topic. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 14:19:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from morpheus.skynet.be (morpheus.skynet.be [195.238.2.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BEF37B479 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dialup368.brussels.skynet.be [195.238.20.112]) by morpheus.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5809DC1C; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:19:35 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200011081749.KAA20426@usr08.primenet.com> References: <200011081749.KAA20426@usr08.primenet.com> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:43:54 +0100 To: Terry Lambert From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 5:49 PM +0000 2000/11/8, Terry Lambert wrote: > I still think that including the remainder of the sentence > makes for a more universally comprehensible joke. I keep > thinking of the joke being translated into another language, > without the cultural baggage needed for completion of the > sentence, and wonder how well that baggage would be implied. I have been told that there is an old Russian saying that goes "To translate is to betray". I certainly believe that translation does more or less damage to virtually anything ever written by a human being, and in my experience jokes almost certainly suffer worse than anything else. I would not worry about the issue of translation when considering a joke for inclusion in the fortune database. If you were to do that, you'd have to throw out the entire thing anyway, because I don't think a single entry is likely to survive. Remember, the flesh is rotten but the vodka is strong. -- These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy ====================================================================== Brad Knowles, || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124 Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels http://www.skynet.be || Belgium "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 14:32:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C23E37B4CF for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27052; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:33:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAfzaOv0; Wed Nov 8 15:32:36 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA29998; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:32:00 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011082232.PAA29998@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet To: blk@skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:31:59 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Brad Knowles" at Nov 08, 2000 09:34:19 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Besides, there's plenty of stuff already in the fortune database > that is *far* more obtuse than something like this. If even just a > small percentage of the people on this list get the joke and > appreciate it, I think that's good enough reason to put it into the > database. Fine, so long as the source is quoted exactly and properly attributed. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 14:39:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hand.dotat.at (sfo-gw.covalent.net [207.44.198.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B1837B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by hand.dotat.at with local (Exim 3.15 #3) id 13tds4-00017M-00; Wed, 08 Nov 2000 22:39:08 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:39:07 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Terry Lambert Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Message-ID: <20001108223907.D3315@hand.dotat.at> References: <200011081855.LAA22115@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200011081855.LAA22115@usr08.primenet.com> Organization: Covalent Technologies, Inc Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert wrote: > >You are a moron. > >1) The text is not the same. >2) Neither one of them makes the joke work. >3) In neither case are wonders being performed. I don't think the joke requires the performance of wonders. Tony. -- en oeccget g mtcaa f.a.n.finch v spdlkishrhtewe y dot@dotat.at eatp o v eiti i d. fanf@covalent.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 14:56: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com [171.69.43.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F4337B479 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mira1.cisco.com (mira1.cisco.com [171.71.208.193]) by sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08021; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cisco.com (sjck-dial-gw5-6.cisco.com [10.19.238.7]) by mira1.cisco.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AAC00562; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:55:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A09D875.46A70282@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:49:26 -0800 From: W Gerald Hicks Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.1.1-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wimo@osiricom.co.za Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD Internals References: <3A082182.A54F412C@osiricom.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] Wim Olivier wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I would like to know where I can get hold of some additional documents > on BSD internals. > I already have "The Design of the 4.4 BSD OS" book and devoured it. > > Now looking for some more... > Getting more involved with one of the BSD projects is perhaps the best next step to take. I'd encourage spending a fair amount of time learning about the project's 'metadata' (makefiles, source tree layouts, source updating and mailing lists). Your knowledge of how to navigate the source code and other project resources will amplify the benefits of your interactions with other BSD developers. BSD lives on the net, not in a library ;-) Cheers, Jerry Hicks gehicks@cisco.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 15:53:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 4000) id B178337B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:53:37 -0800 (PST) To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: This whole fortune business Message-Id: <20001108235337.B178337B479@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:53:37 -0800 (PST) From: god@FreeBSD.ORG (Yahweh) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If people don't stop misquoting me, I'm really going to have to lay the smack down. - God P.S. Of course I'm a FreeBSD user. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 16:44:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D847837B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:44:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20620; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:44:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108174404.047b1570@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:44:41 -0700 To: Brad Knowles , Terry Lambert From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <200011081749.KAA20426@usr08.primenet.com> <200011081749.KAA20426@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:43 PM 11/8/2000, Brad Knowles wrote: > I would not worry about the issue of translation when considering a joke for inclusion in the fortune database. If you were to do that, you'd have to throw out the entire thing anyway, because I don't think a single entry is likely to survive. Agreed. It's hard to translate "Geek" to English. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 17:30:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [212.227.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F0137B479 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with local-bsmtp id 13tgXx-0000J9-00; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 02:30:33 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eA90cgm60999 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:38:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:38:41 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <8ucrmh$1q0r$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> References: <200011081711.KAA19291@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > This is absolute, complete, utter, first-rate US-centric bullshit. > "The Lord works in mysterious ways" (independently of the rest of your > quote) is a colloquial expression in France and Norway, and probably > in other european countries as well. Add German. "Gottes Wege sind unergründlich." The joke is immediately obvious. Well, maybe Terry sees a completely different joke. FWIW, I think I have run across this before. s/FreeBSD/Unix/ maybe? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 17:58:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rucus.ru.ac.za (rucus.ru.ac.za [146.231.29.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C3B837B4D7 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:58:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 41266 invoked by uid 1003); 9 Nov 2000 01:58:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 03:58:48 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Wim Olivier Cc: Donn Miller , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BSD Internals Message-ID: <20001109035848.A35996@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <3A082182.A54F412C@osiricom.co.za> <3A082875.6F6ABC3E@cvzoom.net> <3A0903C0.693C4180@osiricom.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A0903C0.693C4180@osiricom.co.za>; from wimo@osiricom.co.za on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 09:41:52AM +0200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.1-STABLE i386 X-URL: http://mithrandr.moria.org/nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ -stable -> -chat ] On Wed 2000-11-08 (09:41), Wim Olivier wrote: > Nice idea! Sounds like you'd like to visit South Africa sometime, eh? > How about this: You pay for the ticket and I'll put together a real South > African braai (BBQ) > for you with some specialities - and you can then tell me of your > interesting BSD experiences? :))) > > Now that's a good deal! Hey, there're 6 committers currently in .za at the moment. We'd like some free food too. (: (And no, I have absolutely no kernel clue.) Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@mithrandr.moria.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 22:41:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECB537B479; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (spaz.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.31]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19814; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:08:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15994; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 06:40:37 GMT (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 06:40:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby X-Sender: kris@spaz.huntsvilleal.com To: Mark Ovens Cc: Tony Finch , Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet In-Reply-To: <20001108191948.B254@parish> Message-ID: X-Tech-Support-Email: bofh@catonic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Hmm, so what does that make RMS? The Second Coming? Brigham Young? (*duck*) ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Nov 8 22:46:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (server1.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA3337B4C5 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (spaz.huntsvilleal.com [63.147.8.31]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19833; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:14:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by Spaz.HuntsvilleAL.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16098; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 06:46:15 GMT (envelope-from kris@catonic.net) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 06:46:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Kris Kirby X-Sender: kris@spaz.huntsvilleal.com To: Brett Glass Cc: Brad Knowles , Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001108174404.047b1570@localhost> Message-ID: X-Tech-Support-Email: bofh@catonic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Brett Glass wrote: > Agreed. It's hard to translate "Geek" to English. ;-) That's funny because the other sysadmin I work for is a self-described Human-to-Geek interface.... ----- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 1:44:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D16A37B479; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah (jcwells@utah.nwlink.com [209.20.130.41]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA07650; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:44:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:58:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jcwells@utah To: Yahweh Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This whole fortune business In-Reply-To: <20001108235337.B178337B479@hub.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Yahweh wrote: > If people don't stop misquoting me, I'm really going to have to > lay the smack down. > - God > P.S. Of course I'm a FreeBSD user. So tell us, your eminence, how do you really feel about that mascot? Sure they all say its not a devil. It's a d_AE_mon. But seriously, what gives? And I wonder who had the nerve to give this guy a shell account. One would think that giving God a shell account is just asking for root compromise. Thank you, Jason C. Wells P.S. I thought you laid the SMOTE down? :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 2: 9:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fling.sanbi.ac.za (fling.sanbi.ac.za [196.38.142.119]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694FD37B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 02:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from johann by fling.sanbi.ac.za with local (Exim 3.13 #4) id 13todk-000DEc-00; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:09:04 +0200 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:09:04 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: Neil Blakey-Milner Cc: Wim Olivier , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: BSD Internals Message-ID: <20001109120903.D50103@fling.sanbi.ac.za> References: <3A082182.A54F412C@osiricom.co.za> <3A082875.6F6ABC3E@cvzoom.net> <3A0903C0.693C4180@osiricom.co.za> <20001109035848.A35996@mithrandr.moria.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001109035848.A35996@mithrandr.moria.org>; from nbm@mithrandr.moria.org on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 03:58:48AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wim, to answer your original question to -stable, you may also want to have a look at Kirk McKusick's video courses: http://www.mckusick.com/courses/ Neil Blakey-Milner on 2000-11-09 (Thu) at 03:58:48 +0200: > > Hey, there're 6 committers currently in .za at the moment. We'd like > some free food too. (: And Neil, since the majority (?) of the .za committers are down here in Cape Town, why don't you arrange more orgies^Wtalks at the local LUG? ;-) -- V To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 10:41:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D57B37B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:39:49 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eA9IfBD91739; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:41:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:41:10 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Terry Lambert , dg@root.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? Message-ID: <20001109104110.A91691@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <200010310720.AAA26392@usr02.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 10:11:38AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 10:11:38AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > I have seen this with particular firewalls (I think CheckPoint > > was one), where they attempt to do state tracking on FTP, and > > fail to be able to do that and do address rewriting at the same > > time. > > Not relevant. I'm using real IP addresses and the connection is > dropped immediately after the PASS command, no matter what password I > actually send. There is a FW1 upstream, but it's supposed to let all > traffic to and from my subnet through untouched. > > David - is there any way we can try to debug this? I guess the first > thing to try is if it's specific to dgftpd - do you have another site > that runs dgftpd I can test against? Better late than never? We had a problem with our FW-1 after an "upgrade." Here is a source that sums up the different approaches to the issue, http://www.securityportal.com/topnews/weekly/checkpoint20000918.html Scroll down to the "Multiple Problems with FTP After Upgrading" section. HTH. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 11:43:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web10401.mail.yahoo.com (web10401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 285AD37B4C5 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:43:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20001109194036.99775.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.28.161.17] by web10401.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:40:36 PST Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:40:36 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia Subject: Anyone going to Comdex? To: chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello! Just wondering if anyone was heading to Comdex next week. I'll be there for the last two days of the show. This will be my first Comdex show so I don't know what to expect. I'm not sure if going just for the last two days is a bad idea, but I guess I'll learn the hard way since the plans have been made. My employer is sort of sponsoring the trip, although they're being mighty cheap about it (They sent me since I have relatives in Vegas - free room and board - and I'd drive my own car). It would be great if some of us could get together and for for dinner or something. Also, will there be a major BSD presence at Comdex this year? BSDi perhaps? It seems as though there will be a strong Linux crowd so I was curious how strong the BSD presence was going to be. If in case some of you go, I hope to see you there! Cheers, Joey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 11:52:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (envy.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685C137B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eA9JpBL06286; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:51:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:51:09 -0800 From: Jim Mock To: Joey Garcia Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? Message-ID: <20001109115109.A6130@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <20001109194036.99775.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.11i In-Reply-To: <20001109194036.99775.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com>; from bsd_usr@yahoo.com on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 11:40:36AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 at 11:40:36 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > Hello! > > Just wondering if anyone was heading to Comdex next week. I'll be > there for the last two days of the show. This will be my first Comdex > show so I don't know what to expect. Yes, we (BSDi) will be there. If you hang out around the booth, you can expect lots of Windows weenies asking what "FreeBDS" is. You'll also probably hear some asking about the ever-popular "freebzzzzduh" and if it'll run on "my Windows" :-) - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 11:55:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FAE437B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id eA9JsfM02371; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:54:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:54:41 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Jim Mock Cc: Joey Garcia , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? Message-ID: <20001109115441.Z5112@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20001109194036.99775.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com> <20001109115109.A6130@envy.geekhouse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20001109115109.A6130@envy.geekhouse.net>; from jim@lust.geekhouse.net on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 11:51:09AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Jim Mock [001109 11:52] wrote: > On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 at 11:40:36 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > > Hello! > > > > Just wondering if anyone was heading to Comdex next week. I'll be > > there for the last two days of the show. This will be my first Comdex > > show so I don't know what to expect. > > Yes, we (BSDi) will be there. If you hang out around the booth, you can > expect lots of Windows weenies asking what "FreeBDS" is. You'll also > probably hear some asking about the ever-popular "freebzzzzduh" and if > it'll run on "my Windows" :-) Will you be handing out truncheons to deal with these sort of people? -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 11:59:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web10401.mail.yahoo.com (web10401.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 788B637B4CF for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:59:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20001109195610.2537.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.28.161.17] by web10401.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:56:10 PST Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:56:10 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia To: chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello all! I had been appointed to write the new operating procedures for the MIS department when it comes down to purchasing and computer maintenance. At first it seemed like an easy task, but now after some thought I'm not sure where to begin. I had come up with some procedural topics, but I was wondering if anyone of you had to do something like this that can sort of guide me in the right steps. It seems as though I have to pretty much trace all the steps taken to get things done and pretty much document them. Sounded easy, but the hard part is probably the word play to make things easy to understand since this is mostly goint to be read by managers and the general users. They basically need an understanding on how MIS functions because they assume so many weird things. For some reason they (users) must think that we sit here doing nothing waiting for them (users) to call upon us to be their troubleshooting slave. Go figure! I thought this might be an intersting topic for discussion as far as System Administration procedures are concerned so I'm posting this to both chat and questions (just in case some readers don't subscribe to the same lists). If this was an error in my part, I apologize. Some of the procedural topics that I came up with are: Purchasing Procedures - getting approval, etc. Maintenance Procedures - calling out for maintenance Upgrades Procedures - hardware and software upgrades and others yet to come... I'm wondering what other companies do for such situations. I know everyone operates differently, but some ideas could be usefull. Thanks for the info. Cheers, Joey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 12: 3:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (envy.geekhouse.net [64.81.6.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 050CD37B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eA9K0Mr06400; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:00:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:00:21 -0800 From: Jim Mock To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Joey Garcia , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? Message-ID: <20001109120021.A6341@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <20001109194036.99775.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com> <20001109115109.A6130@envy.geekhouse.net> <20001109115441.Z5112@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.11i In-Reply-To: <20001109115441.Z5112@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 11:54:41AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 at 11:54:41 -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Jim Mock [001109 11:52] wrote: > > On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 at 11:40:36 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > > > Just wondering if anyone was heading to Comdex next week. I'll > > > be there for the last two days of the show. This will be my first > > > Comdex show so I don't know what to expect. > > > > Yes, we (BSDi) will be there. If you hang out around the booth, you > > can expect lots of Windows weenies asking what "FreeBDS" is. You'll > > also probably hear some asking about the ever-popular "freebzzzzduh" > > and if it'll run on "my Windows" :-) > > Will you be handing out truncheons to deal with these sort of people? Not that I know of (unfortunately) :-) That's not a bad idea though.. we could get BSDi logos put on the sides.. at least they'd remember us for something other than the "devil ears" ;-P - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 14:27:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977E937B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08474; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:25:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200011092225.OAA08474@implode.root.com> To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:41:10 PST." <20001109104110.A91691@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:25:28 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 10:11:38AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >> Terry Lambert writes: >> > I have seen this with particular firewalls (I think CheckPoint >> > was one), where they attempt to do state tracking on FTP, and >> > fail to be able to do that and do address rewriting at the same >> > time. >> >> Not relevant. I'm using real IP addresses and the connection is >> dropped immediately after the PASS command, no matter what password I >> actually send. There is a FW1 upstream, but it's supposed to let all >> traffic to and from my subnet through untouched. >> >> David - is there any way we can try to debug this? I guess the first >> thing to try is if it's specific to dgftpd - do you have another site >> that runs dgftpd I can test against? > >Better late than never? We had a problem with our FW-1 after an >"upgrade." Here is a source that sums up the different approaches to >the issue, > > http://www.securityportal.com/topnews/weekly/checkpoint20000918.html > >Scroll down to the "Multiple Problems with FTP After Upgrading" >section. HTH. I don't see how dg-ftpd is doing anything wrong. It always replies with CRLF terminated lines on the command channel as RFC-959 requires. ...so I don't think this is the cause. The problem appears to be a real bug in the checkpoint firewall code. -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 14:36:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web10407.mail.yahoo.com (web10407.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D7BA37B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:36:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20001109223610.5119.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.28.161.17] by web10407.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:36:10 PST Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:36:10 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Do people really ask those sorts of things? I'll be sure to check out the booth. Do you know where you'll be located? Anyone interested in hitting a buffet Friday (17th) night? I'm craving Lobster! I'm somewhat excited about this since not only will I get to go to Comdex, but my wife and I will have some "away from the baby" time in Vegas. (My son, Daemon, will be at the sitters - wooohooo!) I guess it's my mini-vacation. Haven't had one in over 2 years. Joey --- Jim Mock wrote: > > Yes, we (BSDi) will be there. If you hang out > around the booth, you can > expect lots of Windows weenies asking what "FreeBDS" > is. You'll also > probably hear some asking about the ever-popular > "freebzzzzduh" and if > it'll run on "my Windows" :-) > > - jim > > -- > jim mock work: > jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org > http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source > Div | http://bsdi.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 14:57:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D382337B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:57:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA56005; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:53:05 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:53:05 -0600 (CST) From: David Scheidt To: Joey Garcia Cc: jim@lust.geekhouse.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? In-Reply-To: <20001109223610.5119.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Joey Garcia wrote: : (My son, Daemon, Does he have horns or a tail? Or at the least a fork? David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 19:12:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (earth.elinux.com.sg [203.120.99.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0571537B479; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eAA39s501062; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:09:54 +0800 (SGT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:09:53 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Jordan Hubbard , Alfred Perlstein , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Bible authorship (was: fortune candidate from #FreeBSD on EFNet) Message-ID: <20001110110952.E885@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <200011081852.LAA21953@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200011081852.LAA21953@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Wed, Nov 08, 2000 at 06:52:29PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 8 November 2000 at 18:52:29 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > [missing attribution to, IIRC, DES] >> I'm tempted to theorise that the phrase did not originate with the >> book you quoted, but rather that its author used an expression his >> readers were already familiar with. > > Feel free; if you can find a reference which predates 1687, in > any language, I'll be happy to reference it instead. I suppose this means whether you mean 1687 BC or 1687 AD. And admittedly there has been much discussion on the authorship of Isaiah, but there's less about the authorship of Ecclesiastes. On the other hand, I have seen no claims which suggests that either were written later than about 200 AD. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 21:39: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D9F237B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:37:24 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eAA5cgq95187; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:38:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:38:42 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: David Greenman Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Terry Lambert , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? Message-ID: <20001109213842.U75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20001109104110.A91691@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> <200011092225.OAA08474@implode.root.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200011092225.OAA08474@implode.root.com>; from dg@root.com on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 02:25:28PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 02:25:28PM -0800, David Greenman wrote: > >On Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 10:11:38AM +0100, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > >> Terry Lambert writes: > >> > I have seen this with particular firewalls (I think CheckPoint > >> > was one), where they attempt to do state tracking on FTP, and > >> > fail to be able to do that and do address rewriting at the same > >> > time. > >> > >> Not relevant. I'm using real IP addresses and the connection is > >> dropped immediately after the PASS command, no matter what password I > >> actually send. There is a FW1 upstream, but it's supposed to let all > >> traffic to and from my subnet through untouched. > >> > >> David - is there any way we can try to debug this? I guess the first > >> thing to try is if it's specific to dgftpd - do you have another site > >> that runs dgftpd I can test against? > > > >Better late than never? We had a problem with our FW-1 after an > >"upgrade." Here is a source that sums up the different approaches to > >the issue, > > > > http://www.securityportal.com/topnews/weekly/checkpoint20000918.html > > > >Scroll down to the "Multiple Problems with FTP After Upgrading" > >section. HTH. > > I don't see how dg-ftpd is doing anything wrong. It always replies with > CRLF terminated lines on the command channel as RFC-959 requires. ...so I > don't think this is the cause. > The problem appears to be a real bug in the checkpoint firewall code. When I was watching FW-1 reset connections, I was thinking the same thing. From the best I could tell, FW-1 would reset the connection if the FTP data portion _of any single packet_ did not end in a CRLF. I would get most of the "230" lines until one line was broken between packets... then FW-1 would send TCP RSTs each way. To me, that's gotta be broken behavior. Why should the application layer, FTP, care how the data is broken up at the transport layer, TCP? -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Nov 9 23:54:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E6C537B479 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id ACE1C239A51; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:54:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 23:54:37 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Joey Garcia Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <20001109235437.F8380@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <20001109195610.2537.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20001109195610.2537.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com>; from bsd_usr@yahoo.com on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 11:56:10AM -0800 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2000-11-09 11:56 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > Hello all! > > I had been appointed to write the new operating > procedures for the MIS department when it comes down > to purchasing and computer maintenance. At first it > seemed like an easy task, but now after some thought > I'm not sure where to begin. You should also write to the bsd_corporate mailing list; it's bsd_corporate@egroups.com. You can subscribe by mailing bsd_corporate-subscribe@egroups.com; the archives are available at . Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Heisenberg might have been here. mailto:gsutter@zer0.org http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 9: 9:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FBE37B479 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:09:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15045; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAEVa4nD; Fri Nov 10 10:06:00 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA21198; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:09:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011101709.KAA21198@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:09:19 +0000 (GMT) Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200011092225.OAA08474@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Nov 09, 2000 02:25:28 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Better late than never? We had a problem with our FW-1 after an > >"upgrade." Here is a source that sums up the different approaches to > >the issue, > > > > http://www.securityportal.com/topnews/weekly/checkpoint20000918.html > > > >Scroll down to the "Multiple Problems with FTP After Upgrading" > >section. HTH. > > I don't see how dg-ftpd is doing anything wrong. It always replies with > CRLF terminated lines on the command channel as RFC-959 requires. ...so I > don't think this is the cause. > The problem appears to be a real bug in the checkpoint firewall code. I can guarantee you that there is a real bug in the session state tracking on these things, in at least one revision of their code. IBM "Home Page Creator", the IBM web site hosting services, were behind a firewall with the bug, at one point. My suggestion would be to do the following: 1) hack a copy of the ftpd up to put out three digit tuples in all cases; if the address is "192.168.11.3", have it use "192.168.011.003" on the wire. 2) Put the modified ftpd up at a different port, so it doesn't interfere with active users, during the experiment. 3) Have the people having problems use ncftp to try and FTP from the modified daemon. The reason for ncftp is the ability to specify a port using the "-p" command line argument (regular FTP can't do this, for some dumb reason). Now that I _know_ there is one of these firewall boxes upstream, it seems to me that there is no doubt but that this is the state tracking bug for these boxes. I think the only options are to run with the modified FTP after that, or get rid of the firewalls, and replace them with something else, since the last I had heard, there was no software fix for them. You might want to check with Evan Oldford to see if this has changed; if you buy him lunch, he might find it worth his time to track this down (it would take some work on his part to do it, but he has all the necessary contacts into the IBM HPC folks). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 9:42:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9050937B4C5 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:42:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26768; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:38:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAoJa4b0; Fri Nov 10 10:38:13 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22146; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:42:06 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011101742.KAA22146@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:42:06 +0000 (GMT) Cc: dg@root.com (David Greenman), des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001109213842.U75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> from "Crist J . Clark" at Nov 09, 2000 09:38:42 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > I don't see how dg-ftpd is doing anything wrong. It always replies with > > CRLF terminated lines on the command channel as RFC-959 requires. ...so I > > don't think this is the cause. > > The problem appears to be a real bug in the checkpoint firewall code. > > When I was watching FW-1 reset connections, I was thinking the same > thing. From the best I could tell, FW-1 would reset the connection if > the FTP data portion _of any single packet_ did not end in a CRLF. I > would get most of the "230" lines until one line was broken between > packets... then FW-1 would send TCP RSTs each way. To me, that's gotta > be broken behavior. Why should the application layer, FTP, care how > the data is broken up at the transport layer, TCP? To prevent command channel hijack, resultingin a data channel to an unintended destination. This would, in effect, allow a man in the middle to procure the equivalent of "proxy" services, if it weren't prevented. So say someone sets up an FTP site, and you FTP to it, and ask to download; all of the sudden, an attacker can use your command channel to commandeer proxy services from your ftp client, and FTP around inside your firewall. Technically, this would be a trojan attack; I haven't seen it bandied about much, but it's certainly feasible. As to the line terminator issue, there is a long standing FTP bug that still exists in many clients, where if the client is placed in binary mode, not only the data channels get data that does not have line-terminator twiddling, but also the command channel has this. In other words, the flag is applied to both, when it should only be applied to one. Passive mode makes this harder to get right, but depending on the client and the way it was implemented, it may mean that the EOL that gets sent over the channel is '\n', '\r', or '\r\r\n'. Yes, this is ugly. The most common culprit is some visual FTP schnauser, which the other thought he could do better than the original "ugly" (but correct) FTP code did. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 9:55: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C66037B479 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16555 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA._aWsG; Fri Nov 10 10:52:55 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22403 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:54:49 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011101754.KAA22403@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Greg Lehey To: chat@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:54:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As usual, your mail server is being hypercritical of my ISP, which has a zero tolerance for SPAM. So I can't reply to your personal email. What antiSPAM system are you using, that it's so anal? Have you considered switching to something less anal, like RBL? It seems to me that even ORBS is more forgiving than the stuff you are using, and those guys are Nazis... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 10:21:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F38937B479 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com ([64.6.211.149]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:20:05 -0800 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by 149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eAAILMh99539; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:21:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:21:22 -0800 From: "Crist J . Clark" To: Terry Lambert Cc: David Greenman , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? Message-ID: <20001110102122.A99378@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> Reply-To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu References: <20001109213842.U75251@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> <200011101742.KAA22146@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200011101742.KAA22146@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 05:42:06PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 05:42:06PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I don't see how dg-ftpd is doing anything wrong. It always replies with > > > CRLF terminated lines on the command channel as RFC-959 requires. ...so I > > > don't think this is the cause. > > > The problem appears to be a real bug in the checkpoint firewall code. > > > > When I was watching FW-1 reset connections, I was thinking the same > > thing. From the best I could tell, FW-1 would reset the connection if > > the FTP data portion _of any single packet_ did not end in a CRLF. I > > would get most of the "230" lines until one line was broken between > > packets... then FW-1 would send TCP RSTs each way. To me, that's gotta > > be broken behavior. Why should the application layer, FTP, care how > > the data is broken up at the transport layer, TCP? > > To prevent command channel hijack, resultingin a data channel > to an unintended destination. This would, in effect, allow a > man in the middle to procure the equivalent of "proxy" services, > if it weren't prevented. > > So say someone sets up an FTP site, and you FTP to it, and ask > to download; all of the sudden, an attacker can use your > command channel to commandeer proxy services from your ftp > client, and FTP around inside your firewall. How does ensuring each packet has application data ending with a CRLF protect against that? -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@alum.mit.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 10:29:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from implode.root.com (root.com [209.102.106.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A879A37B663 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11456; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:27:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200011101827.KAA11456@implode.root.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: cjclark@alum.mit.edu, des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:09:19 GMT." <200011101709.KAA21198@usr08.primenet.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:27:37 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >3) Have the people having problems use ncftp to try and > FTP from the modified daemon. The reason for ncftp > is the ability to specify a port using the "-p" > command line argument (regular FTP can't do this, for > some dumb reason). The regular BSD ftp command has always supported using an alternate port. You do this with: ftp host.com -DG David Greenman Co-founder, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org President, TeraSolutions, Inc. - http://www.terasolutions.com Pave the road of life with opportunities. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 13:29:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from envy.geekhouse.net (dhcp243.osd.bsdi.com [204.216.28.243]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4E037B479 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jim@localhost) by envy.geekhouse.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eAALThb00985; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:29:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:29:43 -0800 From: Jim Mock To: Joey Garcia Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? Message-ID: <20001110132943.C734@envy.geekhouse.net> Reply-To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net References: <20001109223610.5119.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.11i In-Reply-To: <20001109223610.5119.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>; from bsd_usr@yahoo.com on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 02:36:10PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 at 14:36:10 -0800, Joey Garcia wrote: > Do people really ask those sorts of things? I'll be sure to check out > the booth. Do you know where you'll be located? Unfortunately, yes, since COMDEX is mainly a Windows weenie show. We'll be over in the Linux Business Expo part -- which'll probably be shoved in the back corner as usual with Microsoft sponsored events :-( I can't really speak on the show from an attendee point of view since every time I've been to COMDEX I've been in the booth, but my guess is it's more fun for attendees than it is for exhibitors :-) Our booth is huge though, you won't be able to miss it. - jim -- jim mock work: jim@osd.bsdi.com | jim@FreeBSD.org http://soupnazi.org/ BSDi Open Source Div | http://bsdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 13:40: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C6E37B479 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18650; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:35:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA21aiGJ; Fri Nov 10 14:35:00 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00636; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:38:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011102138.OAA00636@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? To: dg@root.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:38:44 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert), cjclark@alum.mit.edu, des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200011101827.KAA11456@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Nov 10, 2000 10:27:37 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >3) Have the people having problems use ncftp to try and > > FTP from the modified daemon. The reason for ncftp > > is the ability to specify a port using the "-p" > > command line argument (regular FTP can't do this, for > > some dumb reason). > > The regular BSD ftp command has always supported using an alternate port. > You do this with: ftp host.com I stand corrected. I did not see this in the manual pages on the BSDi machine from which I am typing this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 14: 5: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C42937B479 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28744; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA5_aiLI; Fri Nov 10 14:33:50 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00624; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:37:39 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011102137.OAA00624@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ftp.freebsd.org b0rked? To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:37:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20001110102122.A99378@149.211.6.64.reflexcom.com> from "Crist J . Clark" at Nov 10, 2000 10:21:22 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > The problem appears to be a real bug in the checkpoint firewall code. > > > > > > When I was watching FW-1 reset connections, I was thinking the same > > > thing. From the best I could tell, FW-1 would reset the connection if > > > the FTP data portion _of any single packet_ did not end in a CRLF. I > > > would get most of the "230" lines until one line was broken between > > > packets... then FW-1 would send TCP RSTs each way. To me, that's gotta > > > be broken behavior. Why should the application layer, FTP, care how > > > the data is broken up at the transport layer, TCP? > > > > To prevent command channel hijack, resultingin a data channel > > to an unintended destination. This would, in effect, allow a > > man in the middle to procure the equivalent of "proxy" services, > > if it weren't prevented. > > > > So say someone sets up an FTP site, and you FTP to it, and ask > > to download; all of the sudden, an attacker can use your > > command channel to commandeer proxy services from your ftp > > client, and FTP around inside your firewall. > > How does ensuring each packet has application data ending with a CRLF > protect against that? It's resetting based on the address data length change in the packet, not on the CRLF. My comment was on the question: > > > Why should the application layer, FTP, care how > > > the data is broken up at the transport layer, TCP? I guess I included too much context in the reply. The point was that there are legitimate reasons to care. I think the precise reason it cares about the line termination is that it wants to maintain its own state for passive connections. Without knowing exactly what software is running on a side receiving a strictly non-compliant line terminator, which might nevertheless be recognized as a line terminator, the firewall can't predict the state of the end receiving the data. When that happens, it loses the ability to discern the "legitimate" vs. "illegitimate" traffic through it, since it can not really tell whether a passive connection is now sending commands, or data, through the command channel (as one example). What it basically boils down to is that a firewall has to act as an application level transparent proxy for some protocols, such as FTP, which absolutely _hate_ application level transparent proxies (the FTP protocol design is anathema to it, as is the HTTP protocol design). You could argue that it is violating the maxim "be generous in what you accept, conservative in what you generate", but as a firewall, it has made a promise to keep you "safe", so breaking any protocol that needs this level of proxy when the data used to implement it is not strictly RFC conforming is viewed by most firewall users as a feature, and most people using nonconforming applications as a pain (Microsoft gets bent out of shape if you suggest that OutLook be forced into RFC compliance, too -- go figure). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 14:43:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299D137B479 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28395; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:57:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAFtayE2; Fri Nov 10 14:57:08 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA01171; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:57:52 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200011102157.OAA01171@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? To: jim@lust.geekhouse.net Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:57:52 +0000 (GMT) Cc: bsd_usr@yahoo.com (Joey Garcia), chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20001110132943.C734@envy.geekhouse.net> from "Jim Mock" at Nov 10, 2000 01:29:43 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Unfortunately, yes, since COMDEX is mainly a Windows weenie show. We'll > be over in the Linux Business Expo part -- which'll probably be shoved > in the back corner as usual with Microsoft sponsored events :-( [ ... ] > Our booth is huge though, you won't be able to miss it. Trade shows that are popular generally offer location choice on a tiered scale, based on points. Those with no points get first come, first serve selection. Points are generally allocated to a company based on (1) past attendance at the same tradeshow, and (2) amount of booth square footage purchased last time vs. this time, with (3) a weighted scaling of the points accrued for a given year, based on the square footage for that year. That means you can't really influence placement one year, only next year. There have actually been mergers/acquisitions of failing companies by other (usually very large) companies, merely to acquire trade show points for a particularly popular tradeshow for a startup wanting to "come on strong". If BSDI has been there before, and so has WC CDROm, there was probably an opportunity for pooling. You probably can not use this to your advantage this year, at this late date, but you can get the books straight to ensure credit for next year. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Nov 10 21:56:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web10404.mail.yahoo.com (web10404.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6681837B4C5 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:56:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20001111055639.13670.qmail@web10404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.130.210.28] by web10404.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:56:39 PST Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:56:39 -0800 (PST) From: Joey Garcia Subject: Re: Anyone going to Comdex? To: David Scheidt Cc: jim@lust.geekhouse.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Joey Garcia wrote: > > : (My son, Daemon, > > Does he have horns or a tail? Or at the least a > fork? > > David > You know, sometimes the way he acts it sure does seem like it. He's in his daemonic two's right now, so he's a handfull. Joey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 0:26:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from citusc17.usc.edu (citusc17.usc.edu [128.125.38.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DB837B4CF for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kris@localhost) by citusc17.usc.edu (8.11.1/8.11.1) id eAB8RuJ28839 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:27:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:27:56 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Election humour Message-ID: <20001111002756.A28800@citusc17.usc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline http://forums.ar15.com/Forum3/HTML/023530.html Heh heh heh Kris --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjoNAwwACgkQWry0BWjoQKVZZgCgvGCHvIXGuvuyXMQrBarSlgXh nK0AoNSmaJXO4nwf6Rddrd28wQWs4u4n =ee+3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 11:20: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E349B37B479 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:20:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id eABJK1e22440; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:20:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:20:01 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: David Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Memory Caching Message-ID: <20001111112001.T11449@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <3A0DA758.D839135@ican.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <3A0DA758.D839135@ican.net>; from ddavid@ican.net on Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 12:08:56PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * David [001111 09:09] wrote: > > Man, some people will try anything to keep there box up to date to play > with. Next time I will just get someone to beat me with a stick, same > effect, but less time to bare the punishment of such a silly idea. Some people would even write a proxy using cygwin libraries so that they can proxy cvsup through thier windows box when they're too lazy to attach a modem to said FreeBSD box. ~/o memories ~/o -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 13: 1:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (sydney.worldwide.lemis.com [192.109.197.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5070337B479 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eABAbWD04818; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:37:32 +0800 (SGT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:37:32 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Simon Griffiths Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Possibly OT: Join me in protest! - Dairy Crest To Stop Production of FRijj Vanilla 'Ltd Edition' Message-ID: <20001111183732.C4535@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from si@chemicalterrorism.com on Sun, Nov 05, 2000 at 05:55:26PM -0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 5 November 2000 at 17:55:26 -0000, Simon Griffiths wrote: > Hi > > This is possibly offtopic and pure madness ;) Hmm. The charter of FreeBSD-chat doesn't understand the term "off topic", and madness is explicitly allowed. > But for milkshake lovers in the uk you must read the following ;-) > > -FWD-- > Since discovering that Dairy Crest have discontinued the FRijj Vanilla 'Ltd > Edition' thick shake (they have replaced it with Mount Caramel), I have > decided to petition them with the hope they will bring it back once more. > > Please visit www.frijj.com and demand they bring it back again! > > Together we can make a difference. :) > -FWD-- Indeed. When you've finished that protest, please consider http://www.lemis.com/another-bloody-nutter.html, which protests about the fact that Coopers' have, in their infinite stupidity, changed the colour of the pale ale label from dark green to light green, thus confusing drinkers the world over. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 13:11:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (sydney.worldwide.lemis.com [192.109.197.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C858A37B479; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eABB7RE04949; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:07:27 +0800 (SGT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:07:27 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Heredity Choice Cc: scanner@jurai.net, Joe Warner , Alfred Perlstein , Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) Message-ID: <20001111190727.G4535@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <000101c04837$05f07620$66c6ddd1@STORK> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <000101c04837$05f07620$66c6ddd1@STORK>; from stork@QNET.COM on Mon, Nov 06, 2000 at 01:17:52PM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 6 November 2000 at 13:17:52 -0800, Heredity Choice wrote: > On Sunday, 05 November, 2000 17:28 PM, scanner@jurai.net wrote: >> On Sun, 5 Nov 2000, Joe Warner wrote: >> >>> Yeah, I've already seen this one. Dru Lavigne posted >>> this one a while back. It's pretty funny! 8^) >>> >>> Maybe it was just a rumor. Microsoft doesn't really >>> have any plans to create a Linux/UNIX variant... >>> ....or do they? 8^P >> >> >> They did once already. It was called XENIX. >> If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and >> call it MS linux. > > Xenix was Microsoft's 16-bit UNIX developed to run on the IBM PC family. It > was a real UNIX, multiuser and multitasking and a different ballgame from > DOS. It was the first UNIX-derived OS to run on the PC platform and paved > the way for FreeBSD. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO. Hmm. IIRC they did it in cooperation. > The advent of the 32-bit I386 made Xenix obsolescent. No, there are 32 bit versions of XENIX. I did some serious work on a thing called XENIX System V in the 1992-1994 timeframe, running on i386s. The main issue was that they didn't go beyond 16 MB (some strange memory model, I suppose), IP performance was abysmal, and they didn't do X or NFS. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 13:14:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (sydney.worldwide.lemis.com [192.109.197.167]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C0737B479 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eABBExA04962; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:14:59 +0800 (SGT) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:14:59 +0800 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: Chris Fuhrman , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) Message-ID: <20001111191459.H4535@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <200011062350.QAA25774@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200011062350.QAA25774@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Mon, Nov 06, 2000 at 11:50:54PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 6 November 2000 at 23:50:54 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >>> They did once already. It was called XENIX. >>> If they still have it, they could dust it off, slap in a linux kernel and >>> call it MS linux. >>> >> >> This got me doing some research on the subject of XENIX. Microsoft >> purchased a stake in SCO sometime in the early 80's which lead to the >> development and release of XENIX. In '87, Microsoft was concerned that >> AT&T's UNIX wouldn't be able to run XENIX app's so they entered into a >> licensing agreement with AT&T to include some XENIX code in the AT&T >> base. AT&T sold it's UNIX technology to Novell in '93 who then sold it to >> SCO in '95. Recently, Microsoft sold it's shares in SCO after which SCO's >> shares collapsed. >> >> Some interesting tidbits: SCO asked M$ to drop the agreement since the >> XENIX code wasn't relavant. M$ refused and as a consequence, SCO paid M$ >> about $1.138 million in royalties (ouch) in FY 1998. >> >> Confusing, no? ;) > > I've been in the bowels of that code. > > Microsoft announced Xenix on 25 Aug 1980, the same year they > signed a contract with IBM to provide compilers for the, at > the time, unannounced IBM PC. XENIX came first. I'm sure the announcement was earlier; they had an article in the August 1980 Byte. And my best guess is that the IBM deal was done in September 1980. It was definitely done by November, when I heard about it. > Most of the original developement was done on Sun equipment, What equipment did Sun have in 1980? Did they even exist? > and Microsoft was actually running a large chunk of their language > engineering on Xenix on Sun machines, as late as 1988 (I got a call > from a Microsoft employee wanting to buy a copy of our > communications software for Xenix running on Sun hardware; when I > said "What?!?", he said "Oh, that's right, it's an internal product > only". Originally, Xenix only ran on 68000 hardware. Do you have any evidence for this? Admittedly, there was 68000 hardware at the time, but it was very early, and there's no obvious reason why Microsoft (which was definitely in charge of XENIX) would have bothered to port to an architecture they didn't plan to use, especially since it was big-endian and 32 bit, whereas both the PDP-11 and i86 were little-endian and 16 bit. I'd suspect that you're extrapolating here. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 16:12:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABF437B4C5 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1350"@[136.142.89.102]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01JWFAY6J30O00H3D9@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:12:51 EST Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:16:35 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Can FreeBSD burn a hub ?? To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Message-id: <3A0DE163.CC675DEE@pitt.edu> Organization: University of Pittsburgh MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, Today I was setting up my net pc-card...and I finally got it to work (for some reason it is using ed1 and not ed0, and it told me that I was doing something prohibited by the router when I pinged another UNIX box). I starting using netscape OK, but suddenly the network became unresponsive.I rebooted to windows and the card didn't seem to work... I was going to complain to linksys about the quality of my brand new card when my officemate tried to hook his laptop and it wasn't working either. FWIW, the card is working fine, but I'm sort of afraid to try to reboot FreeBSD on this other port. Is it possible that I by misconfiguring somthing I somehow caused the hub (or the port) failure? tia, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 20:55:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zeus.carroll.com (zeus.carroll.com [199.224.10.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DBF37B4C5 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from tougas.net [216.44.16.2] by zeus.carroll.com with ESMTP (8.9.3/0) id XAA85996; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:55:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from dtougas@localhost) by tougas.net (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eAC4wwY12373 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:58:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dtougas) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:58:57 -0500 From: Damien Tougas To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD users in NJ/NYC? Message-ID: <20001111235855.A12313@tougas.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, I am just curious if there are any FreeBSD users or user groups in the New Jersey/New York City area. I am new to the area, and would be interested in getting connected with the local FreeBSD community. I checked the FreeBSD website, and did a couple searches on the web but did not turn up much. There appeared to be somthing at one time but it appears to have died off. If there is a good general Unix group that anyone could recommend, I would also be interested in that as an alternative. Thanks. -- Damien Tougas Systems Administrator Carroll-Net, Inc. http://www.carroll.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 21:19:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx-a.qnet.com (mx-a.qnet.com [209.221.198.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D3737B479 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:19:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from cello.qnet.com (root@cello.qnet.com [209.221.198.10]) by mx-a.qnet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20807; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:19:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from STORK (56k-socal-01-45.dial.qnet.com [209.221.198.108]) by cello.qnet.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA23971; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:18:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Heredity Choice" To: "Greg Lehey" , "Terry Lambert" Cc: "Chris Fuhrman" , Subject: RE: Microsoft Source (fwd) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:10:43 -0800 Message-ID: <001b01c04c66$e8320020$6cc6ddd1@STORK> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <20001111191459.H4535@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > and Microsoft was actually running a large chunk of their language > > engineering on Xenix on Sun machines, as late as 1988 (I got a call > > from a Microsoft employee wanting to buy a copy of our > > communications software for Xenix running on Sun hardware; when I > > said "What?!?", he said "Oh, that's right, it's an internal product > > only". Originally, Xenix only ran on 68000 hardware. > > Do you have any evidence for this? Admittedly, there was 68000 > hardware at the time, but it was very early, and there's no obvious > reason why Microsoft (which was definitely in charge of XENIX) would > have bothered to port to an architecture they didn't plan to use, > especially since it was big-endian and 32 bit, whereas both the PDP-11 > and i86 were little-endian and 16 bit. I'd suspect that you're > extrapolating here. I have seen Xenix on a Radioshack computer which had the 68000 processor. Paul Smith To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 21:31:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F287037B4C5 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25904; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:30:57 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001111222626.048a5c10@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:30:48 -0700 To: "Heredity Choice" , "Greg Lehey" , "Terry Lambert" From: Brett Glass Subject: RE: Microsoft Source (fwd) Cc: "Chris Fuhrman" , In-Reply-To: <001b01c04c66$e8320020$6cc6ddd1@STORK> References: <20001111191459.H4535@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:10 PM 11/11/2000, Heredity Choice wrote: >I have seen Xenix on a Radioshack computer which had the 68000 processor. Yes, Radio Shack did have such a machine. It was a one piece terminal-like affair with the floppies and hard drive mounted to the right of the console CRT. I believe it had an MMU similar to those of the old Cromemco systems. (Cromemco's 68000-based models used the S-100 bus, though, and required huge power supplies.) --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 21:46:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC2E37B479 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eAC5jZd02678; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:15:35 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:15:35 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Heredity Choice Cc: Terry Lambert , Chris Fuhrman , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Microsoft Source (fwd) Message-ID: <20001112161535.K802@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20001111191459.H4535@sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> <001b01c04c66$e8320020$6cc6ddd1@STORK> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <001b01c04c66$e8320020$6cc6ddd1@STORK>; from stork@qnet.com on Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 09:10:43PM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 11 November 2000 at 21:10:43 -0800, Heredity Choice wrote: > >>> and Microsoft was actually running a large chunk of their language >>> engineering on Xenix on Sun machines, as late as 1988 (I got a call >>> from a Microsoft employee wanting to buy a copy of our >>> communications software for Xenix running on Sun hardware; when I >>> said "What?!?", he said "Oh, that's right, it's an internal product >>> only". Originally, Xenix only ran on 68000 hardware. >> >> Do you have any evidence for this? Admittedly, there was 68000 >> hardware at the time, but it was very early, and there's no obvious >> reason why Microsoft (which was definitely in charge of XENIX) would >> have bothered to port to an architecture they didn't plan to use, >> especially since it was big-endian and 32 bit, whereas both the PDP-11 >> and i86 were little-endian and 16 bit. I'd suspect that you're >> extrapolating here. > > I have seen Xenix on a Radioshack computer which had the 68000 > processor. I didn't know that Radio Shack ever built 68000 based machines. What was it called? When was this? Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 23: 2:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sanson.reyes.somos.net (freyes.static.inch.com [216.223.199.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9191F37B479 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tomasa (tomasa.reyes.somos.net [10.0.0.11]) by sanson.reyes.somos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA64634; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:55:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fran@reyes.somos.net) Message-Id: <200011120655.BAA64634@sanson.reyes.somos.net> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Damien Tougas" , "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:57:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.10.2010) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) In-Reply-To: <20001111235855.A12313@tougas.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD users in NJ/NYC? Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:58:57 -0500, Damien Tougas wrote: >I am just curious if there are any FreeBSD users or user groups in the >New Jersey/New York City area. This gets asked a few times a year. I did it once. :-) There have been a couple of failed attempts at creating a user group but so far nothing. >If there is a good general Unix group that anyone could recommend, I >would also be interested in that as an alternative. I believe there are some Linux groups, but don't know their URL. francisco Moderator of the Corporate BSD list http://www.egroups.com/group/BSD_Corporate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Nov 11 23:41:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5519137B479 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by wantadilla.lemis.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eAC7fQF03057; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:11:26 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:11:26 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Terry Lambert Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Greg Lehey Message-ID: <20001112181126.Q802@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200011101754.KAA22403@usr08.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200011101754.KAA22403@usr08.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 05:54:49PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 10 November 2000 at 17:54:49 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > As usual, your mail server is being hypercritical of my ISP, > which has a zero tolerance for SPAM. So I can't reply to > your personal email. You could try grog@FreeBSD.org. But I've updated the database to allow mail from you (with the address to which I'm replying). > What antiSPAM system are you using, that it's so anal? Have you > considered switching to something less anal, like RBL? It's some old addition to sendmail. I think I got it off hub some years back, before they changed MTAs. And yes, I need to update it. > It seems to me that even ORBS is more forgiving than the stuff you > are using, and those guys are Nazis... Hmm. I don't block whole /22s like ORBS. But most of this is based on a rather radical "one spam and you're blocked" technique. I get enough mail as it is, and clever people find ways to contact me anyway :-) Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message