From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 0:30:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1997937B787 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 00:30:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA05064 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 May 2000 00:29:54 -0700 Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:29:53 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: truss -f, updated patch Message-ID: <20000521002953.A5031@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Before I go to sleep, I've shortened the diff by about 50%. The new diff is at: http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/projects/freebsd/truss-diff.gz http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/projects/freebsd/truss.tar.gz To be applied as: cd truss gzcat -dc truss-diff.gz | patch -p1 The real 100 lines of changes are: 1. Line 306 in i386-fbsd.c (where all the action starts) 2. Last few lines of main 3. Some changes in syscalls.c:print_syscall It now prints syscalls one per line, like linux and solaris equivalents. The Makefile changes can be completely ignored. They are there so that truss can be compiled in a directory other than /usr/src. -Arun $ truss -f -o foo sh -c ls $ cat foo 62898: getpid() = 62898 (0xf5b2) 62898: geteuid() = 500 (0x1f4) 62898: readlink("/etc/malloc.conf",0xbfbff79c,63) = errno 2 'No such file or directory' 62898: mmap(0x0,4096,0x3,0x1002,-1,0x0) = 671793152 (0x280ac000) 62898: break(0x80bd000) = 0 (0x0) 62898: break(0x80be000) = 0 (0x0) 62898: getuid() = 500 (0x1f4) 62898: geteuid() = 500 (0x1f4) 62898: getgid() = 100 (0x64) 62898: getegid() = 100 (0x64) 62898: sigaction(SIGINT,0x0,0xbfbff7c4) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGINT,0xbfbff7c4,0xbfbff7ac) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGINT,0x0,0xbfbff7c4) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGINT,0xbfbff7c4,0x0) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGQUIT,0x0,0xbfbff7b4) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGQUIT,0xbfbff7b4,0xbfbff79c) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGQUIT,0x0,0xbfbff7b4) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGQUIT,0xbfbff7b4,0x0) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGTERM,0x0,0xbfbff7c4) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGTERM,0xbfbff7c4,0xbfbff7ac) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGSYS,0xbfbff634,0xbfbff61c) = 0 (0x0) 62898: __getcwd(0xbfbff79c,0x100) = 0 (0x0) 62898: sigaction(SIGSYS,0xbfbff61c,0x0) = 0 (0x0) 62898: break(0x80bf000) = 0 (0x0) 62898: stat("/home/adsharma/kde/bin/ls",0xbfbff6fc) = errno 2 'No such file or directory' 62898: stat("/home/adsharma/bin/ls",0xbfbff6fc) = errno 2 'No such file or directory' 62898: stat("/home/adsharma/kde/bin/ls",0xbfbff6fc) = errno 2 'No such file or directory' 62898: stat("/bin/ls",0xbfbff6fc) = 0 (0x0) 62898: break(0x80c0000) = 0 (0x0) 62898: fork() = 62899 (0xf5b3) 62898: getpgrp() = 62897 (0xf5b1) 62899: ... Returning from fork ?() = 0 (0x0) 62899: open(".",0,00) = 5 (0x5) 62899: stat(".",0xbfbff798) = 0 (0x0) 62899: open(".",4,00) = 6 (0x6) 62899: fstat(6,0xbfbff798) = 0 (0x0) 62899: fcntl(0x6,0x2,0x1) = 0 (0x0) 62899: __sysctl(0xbfbff650,0x2,0x807ad98,0xbfbff64c,0x0,0x0) = 0 (0x0) 62899: fstatfs(0x6,0xbfbff698) = 0 (0x0) 62899: break(0x8083000) = 0 (0x0) 62899: getdirentries(0x6,0x8082000,0x1000,0x807e0b4) = 3072 (0xc00) 62899: break(0x8084000) = 0 (0x0) 62899: break(0x8085000) = 0 (0x0) 62899: break(0x8086000) = 0 (0x0) 62899: break(0x8087000) = 0 (0x0) 62899: getdirentries(0x6,0x8082000,0x1000,0x807e0b4) = 0 (0x0) 62899: lseek(6,0x0,0) = 0 (0x0) 62899: close(6) = 0 (0x0) 62899: fchdir(0x5) = 0 (0x0) 62899: close(5) = 0 (0x0) 62899: break(0x8088000) = 0 (0x0) 62899: fstat(1,0xbfbff3b8) = 0 (0x0) 62899: ioctl(1,TIOCGETA,0xbfbff3ec) = 0 (0x0) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,31) = 31 (0x1f) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,23) = 23 (0x17) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,32) = 32 (0x20) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,33) = 33 (0x21) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,19) = 19 (0x13) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,29) = 29 (0x1d) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,20) = 20 (0x14) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,28) = 28 (0x1c) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,20) = 20 (0x14) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,25) = 25 (0x19) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,21) = 21 (0x15) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,22) = 22 (0x16) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,21) = 21 (0x15) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,29) = 29 (0x1d) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,27) = 27 (0x1b) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,26) = 26 (0x1a) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,25) = 25 (0x19) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,24) = 24 (0x18) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,30) = 30 (0x1e) 62899: write(1,0x8082400,24) = 24 (0x18) 62899: exit(0x0) = 0(8048e82) SIGNAL 20 62898: wait4(0xffffffff,0xbfbff728,0x2,0x0) = 62899 (0xf5b3) 62898: exit(0x0) = 0(8048e82) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 2:49:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8BA37B6C0 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 02:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9C1152.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.156.17.82]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05873; Sun, 21 May 2000 11:48:59 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C952AC2C; Sun, 21 May 2000 11:49:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03760; Sun, 21 May 2000 11:49:13 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:49:13 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Sergey Babkin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: further question to bus_alloc_resource Message-ID: <20000521114913.B3710@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <20000520013751.A5852@cichlids.cichlids.com> <20000520014352.B5947@cichlids.cichlids.com> <3925E63E.EF415CFF@bellatlantic.net> <20000520114607.A1832@cichlids.cichlids.com> <3926F0CF.DA23E3AD@bellatlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3926F0CF.DA23E3AD@bellatlantic.net>; from babkin@bellatlantic.net on Sat, May 20, 2000 at 04:08:47PM -0400 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Sergey Babkin (babkin@bellatlantic.net): > the old version somehow wedges the system. And upgrading drivers > on a running production system is not something I personally would > do. This is a dangerous operation and if it would cause any problems Heh. Of course. But also the bktr-driver, the newbus stuff is completely borked. I can't unload the module, as I'd like to. (work in progress...) Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 4: 5: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5EE037B5D6 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 04:04:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p07-dn03kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.232.224.136]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id UAA29945; Sun, 21 May 2000 20:04:43 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3927BE03.CDED865D@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:44:19 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steven Kehlet Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: enabling -DNAMEBLOCK breaks biosboot build (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steven Kehlet wrote: > > With 3.4-STABLE code, cvsup'd on Tues May 9th, enabling -DNAMEBLOCK in > /sys/i386/boot/biosboot/Makefile breaks the build: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We no longer use that. I'm surprised it is present at all in 3.4's source code. Alas... maybe it is an old version that somehow was left alone by cvsup? Well, anyway, no one is maintaining that code. > I'd like the NAMEBLOCK feature so I can use nextboot. Is there a new > way to boot different kernels, or am I screwed? Indeed, nextboot is not supported anymore, though one can easily write a program to do what you want by changing /boot/loader.conf. Please refer to loader(8), loader.conf(5) and loader.4th(8) man pages for 3.x+ system bootstrapping. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@another.bsdconspiracy.org "Sentience hurts." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 5:55:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B57D37B876 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 05:55:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darius@midget.dons.net.au) Received: (from darius@localhost) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA75451; Sun, 21 May 2000 22:24:54 +0930 (CST) (envelope-from darius) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200005191954.NAA03169@harmony.village.org> Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:24:54 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Post-shutdown hook for UPS shutdown? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Doug White , Cillian Sharkey Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-May-00 Warner Losh wrote: > Actually, forget what I said. Mike smith's way is much cleaner. > Assuming that the batteries have enough juice in them to do the > reboot. Doesn't matter if they do or not though.. If it powers down while you are starting up, so what? :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 6:30:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [212.227.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E8137B876 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 06:30:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from daemon@mips.inka.de) Received: from bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with local-bsmtp id 12tVoQ-0000s1-01; Sun, 21 May 2000 15:30:34 +0200 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by bigeye.rhein-neckar.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21995 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 May 2000 14:30:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: truss -f, updated patch Date: 21 May 2000 14:30:03 +0200 Message-ID: <8g8ksb$lf2$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> References: <20000521002953.A5031@sharmas.dhs.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arun Sharma wrote: > http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/projects/freebsd/truss-diff.gz Those gratuitous whitespace and formatting changes are a pain... Related question: Currently, truss does very little parsing of syscall arguments. That table in syscalls.c looks anemic. Is there any interest in expanding this? I guess that's something I could take on, as it appears to be mostly grunt work. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 6:38:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay01.chello.nl (smtp.chello.nl [212.83.68.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F82737B90A for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 06:38:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@chello.nl) Received: from chello.nl ([213.46.78.184]) by relay01.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 2ee4e7c625482f2f2a1950a80f6c8d58) with ESMTP id <20000521133907.QGLX5345.relay01@chello.nl> for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 15:39:07 +0200 Received: (from wkb@localhost) by chello.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00323 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 21 May 2000 15:38:41 GMT (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:38:41 +0000 From: Wilko Bulte To: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: bktr, unknown PCI device? Message-ID: <20000521153841.A313@freebie.wbnet> Reply-To: wc.bulte@chello.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just upgraded one of my boxes to 4.0-stable. Now I seem to have a 'unknown card' on the PCI, seems related to the bktr. I remember there was a posting once with a WWW pointer to a PCI-ID database. Alas I cannot find that pointer :-( Any clue what I'm looking at? Fxtv works like a charm BTW bktr0: mem 0xe7000000-0xe7000fff irq 7 at device 10.0 on pci0 iicbb0: on bti2c0 iicbus0: on iicbb0 master-only smbus0: on bti2c0 bktr0: Hauppauge Model 61204 AMA Hauppauge WinCast/TV, Philips PAL I tuner. pci0: (vendor=0x109e, dev=0x0878) at 10.1 irq 7 -- Wilko Bulte FreeBSD, the power to serve http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 9:36: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D87C37B687 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 09:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.231]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26502; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:35:40 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0867AC2C; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:36:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01667; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:35:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:35:55 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: wc.bulte@chello.nl Cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: bktr, unknown PCI device? Message-ID: <20000521183555.A1542@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <20000521153841.A313@freebie.wbnet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000521153841.A313@freebie.wbnet>; from wkb@chello.nl on Sun, May 21, 2000 at 03:38:41PM +0000 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Wilko Bulte (wkb@chello.nl): > I just upgraded one of my boxes to 4.0-stable. Now I seem to have > a 'unknown card' on the PCI, seems related to the bktr. I remember That is the Radio-chip of your TV-card: > bktr0: mem 0xe7000000-0xe7000fff irq 7 at device 10.0 on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > pci0: (vendor=0x109e, dev=0x0878) at 10.1 irq 7 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I have this, too. Alex PS: The Alpine works fine, I'm recompiling kernel for ed0 at the moment :-) -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 9:36:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9757737B687 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 09:36:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from culverk@wam.umd.edu) Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (root@rac9.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.149]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02923; Sun, 21 May 2000 12:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac9.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13470; Sun, 21 May 2000 12:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (culverk@localhost) by rac9.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13466; Sun, 21 May 2000 12:36:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac9.wam.umd.edu: culverk owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Wayne Culver To: wc.bulte@chello.nl Cc: FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: bktr, unknown PCI device? In-Reply-To: <20000521153841.A313@freebie.wbnet> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It's just another part of the card that doesn't need to have a driver for it to function, take a look at my dmesg: bktr0: mem 0xe9002000-0xe9002fff irq 5 at device 17.0 on pci0 bktr0: Hauppauge Model 61291 D110 Hauppauge WinCast/TV, Philips NTSC tuner. pci0: (vendor=0x109e, dev=0x0878) at 17.1 irq 5 ================================================================= | Kenneth Culver | FreeBSD: The best OS around. | | Unix Systems Administrator | ICQ #: 24767726 | | and student at The | AIM: muythaibxr | | The University of Maryland, | Website: (Under Construction) | | College Park. | http://www.wam.umd.edu/~culverk/| ================================================================= On Sun, 21 May 2000, Wilko Bulte wrote: > I just upgraded one of my boxes to 4.0-stable. Now I seem to have > a 'unknown card' on the PCI, seems related to the bktr. I remember > there was a posting once with a WWW pointer to a PCI-ID database. Alas > I cannot find that pointer :-( > > Any clue what I'm looking at? Fxtv works like a charm BTW > > bktr0: mem 0xe7000000-0xe7000fff irq 7 at device 10.0 on > pci0 > iicbb0: on bti2c0 > iicbus0: on iicbb0 master-only > smbus0: on bti2c0 > bktr0: Hauppauge Model 61204 AMA > Hauppauge WinCast/TV, Philips PAL I tuner. > pci0: (vendor=0x109e, dev=0x0878) at 10.1 irq 7 > > > -- > Wilko Bulte FreeBSD, the power to serve http://www.freebsd.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 10: 1:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay02.chello.nl (relay02.chello.nl [212.83.68.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A010437B930 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 10:01:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wkb@chello.nl) Received: from chello.nl ([213.46.78.184]) by relay02.chello.nl (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 2ee4e7c625482f2f2a1950a80f6c8d58) with ESMTP id <20000521170137.SPUO24740.relay02@chello.nl>; Sun, 21 May 2000 19:01:37 +0200 Received: (from wkb@localhost) by chello.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01066; Sun, 21 May 2000 19:01:51 GMT (envelope-from wkb) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:01:51 +0000 From: Wilko Bulte To: Alexander Langer Cc: wc.bulte@chello.nl, FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: bktr, unknown PCI device? Message-ID: <20000521190151.A1038@freebie.wbnet> Reply-To: wc.bulte@chello.nl References: <20000521153841.A313@freebie.wbnet> <20000521183555.A1542@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000521183555.A1542@cichlids.cichlids.com>; from alex@big.endian.de on Sun, May 21, 2000 at 06:35:55PM +0200 X-OS: FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE X-PGP: finger wilko@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 21, 2000 at 06:35:55PM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Wilko Bulte (wkb@chello.nl): > > > I just upgraded one of my boxes to 4.0-stable. Now I seem to have > > a 'unknown card' on the PCI, seems related to the bktr. I remember > > That is the Radio-chip of your TV-card: Which is interesting, because this is a WinTV Primio which is not supposed to have a radio chip.. > > bktr0: mem 0xe7000000-0xe7000fff irq 7 at device 10.0 on > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > pci0: (vendor=0x109e, dev=0x0878) at 10.1 irq 7 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I have this, too. Well, I can live with it, but I'm still curious ;-) > PS: The Alpine works fine, I'm recompiling kernel for ed0 at the > moment :-) Excellent! -- Wilko Bulte FreeBSD, the power to serve http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 18: 6:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6362737B888 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:06:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14010; Sun, 21 May 2000 20:06:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:06:06 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: truss -f, updated patch Message-ID: <20000521200606.F12386@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20000521002953.A5031@sharmas.dhs.org> <8g8ksb$lf2$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <8g8ksb$lf2$1@bigeye.rhein-neckar.de>; from "Christian Weisgerber" on Sun May 21 14:30:03 GMT 2000 X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (May 21), Christian Weisgerber said: > Arun Sharma wrote: > > > http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/projects/freebsd/truss-diff.gz > > Those gratuitous whitespace and formatting changes are a pain... > > Related question: > Currently, truss does very little parsing of syscall arguments. > That table in syscalls.c looks anemic. Is there any interest in > expanding this? I guess that's something I could take on, as it > appears to be mostly grunt work. I had worked on this a little, but had too much trouble keeping the binary compatible with our emulation code. Also printing syscall args can get pretty hairy if you want to do it *right*. Here's a snippet of an email I sent to another guy that was interested in rewriting truss, about 6 months ago: Specifiers are nice for the simple types, like int, float, and string, but how do you specify that a sycall takes a pointer to a struct timeval, without actually writing "struct timeval *"? You end up rewriting the contents of syscalls.master :) Although you *do* need to specify somewhere which arguments are IN/OUT/BOTH. Like stat(). You only want to print the "struct stat" contents after the syscall has returned. The opposite is the case for utimes(). You want to print the "struct timeval" before the call. Then you have functions like poll() or select(), that modify a structure, so you need to print it before and after. I had patterened my code after a free version of truss for Digital Unix. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@emsphone.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun May 21 22: 3:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (peter1.yahoo.com [208.48.107.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74CF37B507 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 22:03:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D5D1CE1; Sun, 21 May 2000 22:03:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Alexander Langer Cc: wc.bulte@chello.nl, FreeBSD hackers list Subject: Re: bktr, unknown PCI device? In-Reply-To: Message from Alexander Langer of "Sun, 21 May 2000 18:35:55 +0200." <20000521183555.A1542@cichlids.cichlids.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:03:19 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20000522050319.D1D5D1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Langer wrote: > Thus spake Wilko Bulte (wkb@chello.nl): > > > I just upgraded one of my boxes to 4.0-stable. Now I seem to have > > a 'unknown card' on the PCI, seems related to the bktr. I remember > > That is the Radio-chip of your TV-card: > > > bktr0: mem 0xe7000000-0xe7000fff irq 7 at device 10.0 on > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > pci0: (vendor=0x109e, dev=0x0878) at 10.1 irq 7 > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It's not the radio chip. bktr0: mem 0xf43fe000-0xf43fefff irq 11 at device 10.0 on pci2 pci2: (vendor=0x109e, dev=0x0878) at 10.1 irq 11 This card does not have a PCI radio chip. The TV tuner can be put into FM mode. (TV audio is transmitted as FM, and the FM band is right in the middle of the VHF TV band). I actually looked at the Bt878 specs. pci function 0 is the digital video busmaster interface. pci function 1 is the digital audio busmaster interface. It appears that we can have the audio subsystem send the data via busmastering as well as via the line out plug. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 0: 0:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804D837BB77; Mon, 22 May 2000 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19543; Mon, 22 May 2000 00:00:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Message-ID: <3928DB11.A18443B0@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:00:33 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0508 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS problems on 4.0-stable. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jaye Mathisen wrote: > > UDP v2 mounts, Netapp Filer. > > Getting a fair # of: > got bad cookie vp 0xd24bf1c0 bp 0xc9090500 > got bad cookie vp 0xd24bfda0 bp 0xc906ceb0 > > on the console, and it seems to lock the machine up for several minutes > when it does. Then it comes back to life, and cranks for a while... > > Not sure where to even start. Start with not using nfs v2. :) I use the following options in /etc/fstab to mount my netapp stuff from FreeBSD 4.0-Stable clients. If you're not already using 4.0, fix that first. netapp:/blah /local/mountpoint nfs rw,bg,soft,intr,nfsv3,rdirplus,mntudp,noconn I've never seen the errors above, and the options I'm using are the result of lots of performance testing. HTH, Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 0:12:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasi.com (sasi.com [164.164.56.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425BC37BBBA for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 00:11:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gbnaidu@sasi.com) Received: from samar (sasi.com [164.164.56.2]) by sasi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA16096 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:40:19 +0530 (IST) Received: from sund6.sasi.com ([10.0.16.6]) by sasi.com; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:40:16 +0000 (IST) Received: from localhost (gbnaidu@localhost) by sund6.sasi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00299 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:43:18 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:43:18 +0530 (IST) From: "G.B.Naidu" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Device driver requirement... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I would like to know about the device drivre development. I know the basic concepts behind a device driver. But haven't written a driver my self. But now time has come for me to do that. I need to develop a device driver for a ethernet switch/hub. So I would like to have some clarifications: 1. How much effort it takes for a real device driver to be written? Please provide a realistic estimate. I guess somebody might have written some commercial device drivres. 2. What all information do I need to design a device driver? I have the data sheets of the product available from the net. Anything else I need? 3. How do I decide whether a driver has to be block device or character device? 4. I went through the two documents posted on the list about newbus. Is it mandatory that one has to use newbus architecture from FreeBSD 4.0 onwards? Frankly speaking I didnt understand much of the documents. 5. I would like to know where I can get the small driver written by Warner Losh? 6. Any other info on device drivers for freeBSD other than these two documents posted on the list? I checked in the handbook but there seems nothing on device drivres. thanks in advance --gb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 1:54:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web4207.mail.yahoo.com (web4207.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.104.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 742E037BD5A for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 01:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sh_fazelian@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20000522085452.23895.qmail@web4207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.200.226.110] by web4207.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 22 May 2000 01:54:52 PDT Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:54:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Shadi Fazelian Subject: please hellllllllllllp me! To: hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello. please guide me: 1- how I can see a hidden file (not dot file) and how I can hidden a file ? my mean: I want make a file that ls -al can't see it. 2- how I can write somthing in a file that nobody can see them my mean: in crontab adding some command that this is hidden. 3- how I can run somthing in background that ps can't see it. please guide me. hackeres attack my servers and I don't know how he/she can. regurds shadi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 2:26:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453A537BA91 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 02:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4M9x1414829; Mon, 22 May 2000 02:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:59:01 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Shadi Fazelian Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! Message-ID: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000522085452.23895.qmail@web4207.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000522085452.23895.qmail@web4207.mail.yahoo.com>; from sh_fazelian@yahoo.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 01:54:52AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Shadi Fazelian [000522 02:31] wrote: > Hello. > please guide me: > 1- how I can see a hidden file (not dot file) and how > I can hidden a file ? > my mean: I want make a file that ls -al can't see it. impossible(*) afaik. > > 2- how I can write somthing in a file that nobody can > see them > my mean: in crontab adding some command that this is > hidden. impossible(*) afaik. > > 3- how I can run somthing in background that ps can't > see it. impossible(*) afaik. > > please guide me. hackeres attack my servers and I > don't know how he/she can. (*) see: http://www.rootkit.com/ and: http://www.rootkit.com/whitepapers.shtml -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 2:34: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE7337BB28 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 02:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ust@cert.siemens.de) X-Envelope-Sender-Is: ust@cert.siemens.de (at relayer david.siemens.de) Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by david.siemens.de (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e4M9Xob13782; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:33:51 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mars.cert.siemens.de (ust.mchp.siemens.de [139.23.201.17]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e4M9XnB24564; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:33:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from alaska.cert.siemens.de (reims.mchp.siemens.de [139.23.202.134]) by mars.cert.siemens.de (8.10.1/8.10.1/Siemens CERT [ $Revision: 1.8 ]) with ESMTP id e4M9XnZ10972; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:33:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from ust@localhost) by alaska.cert.siemens.de (8.10.1/8.10.1/alaska [ $Revision: 1.5 ]) id e4M9Xno84553; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:33:49 GMT Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:33:49 +0200 From: Udo Schweigert To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Shadi Fazelian , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! Message-ID: <20000522113349.A74728@alaska.cert.siemens.de> References: <20000522085452.23895.qmail@web4207.mail.yahoo.com> <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 02:59:01AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 02:59:01 -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Shadi Fazelian [000522 02:31] wrote: > > Hello. > > please guide me: > > 1- how I can see a hidden file (not dot file) and how > > I can hidden a file ? > > my mean: I want make a file that ls -al can't see it. > > impossible(*) afaik. > > > > > 2- how I can write somthing in a file that nobody can > > see them > > my mean: in crontab adding some command that this is > > hidden. > > impossible(*) afaik. > > > > > 3- how I can run somthing in background that ps can't > > see it. > > impossible(*) afaik. > > > > > please guide me. hackeres attack my servers and I > > don't know how he/she can. > > (*) see: http://www.rootkit.com/ > and: http://www.rootkit.com/whitepapers.shtml > 1- and 3- are possible, if the attacker can change the installed versions of ls and ps to his own, compromised versions. Regards -- Udo Schweigert, Siemens AG | Voice : +49 89 636 42170 ZT IK 3, Siemens CERT | Fax : +49 89 636 41166 D-81730 Muenchen / Germany | email : ust@cert.siemens.de PGP-2/5 fingerprint | D8 A5 DF 34 EC 87 E8 C6 E2 26 C4 D0 EE 80 36 B2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 5:36:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from citadel.cequrux.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3DA37C04B; Mon, 22 May 2000 05:35:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gram@cequrux.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cequrux.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id OAA08918; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:35:30 +0200 (SAST) Received: by citadel.cequrux.com via recvmail id 8838; Mon May 22 14:34:32 2000 Message-ID: <39292998.4C55739A@cequrux.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:35:36 +0200 From: Graham Wheeler Organization: Cequrux Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dmitry Samersoff Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bpf question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dmitry Samersoff wrote: > > I have stoped on perforamnce bpf itself. > > Is there alternate driver or can changing of bpf queue in kernel help, and where > I can read about it? If my memory serves me correctly, Marcus Ranum wrote a white paper on IDS systems in the early days of NFR, in which he said that the existing configuration of BPF was inadequate for capturing all packets on a fast link, and suggested a patch to improve the situation. THe patch involved bumping up a buffer from about 16kb to 256kb. Unfortunately I no longer have the details handy, but if you did a search for BPF/IDS/NFR/Ranum you might find something. -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cequrux.com Director, Research and Development WWW: http://www.cequrux.com CEQURUX Technologies Phone: +27(21)423-6065 Firewalls/VPN Specialists Fax: +27(21)424-3656 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 5:49: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBE637BBE1 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 05:48:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from calcaphon.demon.co.uk ([193.237.19.5] helo=bluebottle.qubesoft.com) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12trde-000EfC-0W; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:48:55 +0100 Received: from henny.webweaving.org (henny.qubesoft.com [192.168.1.5]) by bluebottle.qubesoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA34148; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:48:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henny.webweaving.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04033; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:13:27 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:13:27 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@localhost Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Doug Rabson Cc: Alexander Langer , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: further question to bus_alloc_resource In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It was just the first driver I got, so far only an example (bad one). > > What about aha? > > It would be nice to be able te detach most drivers. I think that when aha > was converted originally, cam didn't support detach but I'm pretty sure it > does now. The cam_sim_free hasn't been exercised a lot. I've tried using it for the USB Zip drives, but I failed at some stage and left it at that. Basically, you can detach from a drive, but you can't detach from a SIM IMHO. However, the PCCARD ahc driver does detach properly from a SIM, so maybe it does work, and there simply was a bug in my code. One of the things I was not doing, I just noticed, was to send a AC_LOST_DEVICE for path for the SIM. Nick -- n_hibma@webweaving.org n_hibma@freebsd.org USB project http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 5:49: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8820137B712 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 05:48:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from calcaphon.demon.co.uk ([193.237.19.5] helo=bluebottle.qubesoft.com) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12trdc-000H0G-0V; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:48:53 +0100 Received: from henny.webweaving.org (henny.qubesoft.com [192.168.1.5]) by bluebottle.qubesoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA34143; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:48:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henny.webweaving.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03353; Sun, 21 May 2000 12:02:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:02:53 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@localhost Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: J McKitrick Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: boot/kernel debugging In-Reply-To: <20000518045219.A59839@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In general it is well possible to single step anything in the kernel. You might find occasions where things stop working, and odd cases were things all of a sudden start working, but normally, apart from hardware things, most things are not time critical, or create problems through spin locks. You can single step at boot time, by setting the flags in the loader. set boot_ddb # jump to debugger set boot_gdb # use remote gdb for debugging by default Hope this helps. Nick > I've used softice for debugging under windows, and i was wondering if gdb > offers similar capabilities. It seems the best way to debug the ECP > parallel port problem is to step through the code during the boot phase. > Can this be done, or is there too much timing-critical stuff going on then? > > jm > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org > I am a bomb technician. If you see me running, try to keep up. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- n_hibma@webweaving.org n_hibma@freebsd.org USB project http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 5:49:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA5937C038 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 05:49:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from calcaphon.demon.co.uk ([193.237.19.5] helo=bluebottle.qubesoft.com) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12trdc-0009Xm-0B; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:48:53 +0000 Received: from henny.webweaving.org (henny.qubesoft.com [192.168.1.5]) by bluebottle.qubesoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA34140; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:48:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henny.webweaving.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04133; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:20:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:20:16 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@localhost Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Adam Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: modules and newbus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I got the impression that newbus would make it easier to make kernel > modules out of things. What in general does it take to make something > into a kld? I'm thinking of pcm for example. In general all it takes is a good look at de-allocation of the resources it allocates. Another point with some hardware is that you need to deinitialise it and make it shut up / no longer produce interrupts. Also the encapsulation of the driver into a MODULE needs to be done, which should be fairly trivial or already done. Be reminded that you cannot detach from all the busses, like for example ISA. Nick -- n_hibma@webweaving.org n_hibma@freebsd.org USB project http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 6:39:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from pegasus.freibergnet.de (pegasus.freibergnet.de [194.123.255.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9B637B55D for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 06:39:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from holm@pegasus.freibergnet.de) Received: (from holm@localhost) by pegasus.freibergnet.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA12071 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:39:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from holm) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:39:08 +0200 From: Holm Tiffe To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Xircom MPCI Modem ? Message-ID: <20000522153908.A11973@pegasus.freibergnet.de> Reply-To: holm@freibergnet.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i Organization: FreibergNet Internet Services X-Phone: +49-3731-781279 X-Fax: +49-3731-781377 X-PGP-fingerprint: 86 EC A5 63 B5 28 78 13 8B FC E9 09 04 6E 86 FC Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, Does anyone know if it is possible to get an "Xircom MPCI Modem 56 WinGlobal" working with - current ? It is the internal Modem from my Notebook (Maxdata 650T). Is this an infamous Win Modem ? It gets detected as follows: twity /kernel: found-> vendor=0x11c1, dev=0x0420, revid=0x01 twity /kernel: class=07-80-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 twity /kernel: subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 twity /kernel: intpin=a, irq=11 twity /kernel: map[10]: type 1, range 32, base fc008400, size 8 , enabled twity /kernel: map[14]: type 4, range 32, base 00001808, size 3 , enabled twity /kernel: map[18]: type 4, range 32, base 00001400, size 8 , enabled the next device I've found is this: twity /kernel: found-> vendor=0x1073, dev=0x0010, revid=0x02 twity /kernel: class=04-01-00, hdrtype=0x00, mfdev=0 twity /kernel: subordinatebus=0 secondarybus=0 twity /kernel: intpin=a, irq=5 twity /kernel: map[10]: type 1, range 32, base fc000000, size 15 , enabled twity /kernel: map[14]: type 4, range 32, base 00001080, size 6 , enabled twity /kernel: map[18]: type 4, range 32, base 00001800, size 2 , enabled This appears to be an internal YAMAHA DS-XG Legacy Sound system and a YAMAHA DS-XG PCI Audio Codec. I'm totally unfamiliar with this sort of devices, since it is my first notebook. Please put me in the right direction.. Where can I read how I can get those working? I've fixed the problems with my internal lan card (lnc based) myself and mailed a patch to the driver to Paul Richards to detect properly the AM79C973 chips. Holm -- FreibergNet Systemhaus GbR Holm Tiffe * Administration, Development Systemhaus für Daten- und Netzwerktechnik phone +49 3731 781279 Unternehmensgruppe Liebscher & Partner fax +49 3731 781377 D-09599 Freiberg * Am St. Niclas Schacht 13 http://www.freibergnet.de/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 7:14: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B266A37B8D2 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 12tsxt-0002dT-00; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:13:53 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA54573; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:13:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:13:52 +0100 From: J McKitrick To: Nick Hibma Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: boot/kernel debugging Message-ID: <20000522151352.G53733@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20000518045219.A59839@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from n_hibma@calcaphon.com on Sun, May 21, 2000 at 12:02:53PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, May 21, 2000 at 12:02:53PM +0100, Nick Hibma wrote: > You can single step at boot time, by setting the flags in the loader. None of this will be source level, correct? Will it at least have labels if i use a debug kernel? jm -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org I am a bomb technician. If you see me running, try to keep up. ------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 7:20:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from facmail.cc.gettysburg.edu (facmail.gettysburg.edu [138.234.4.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731BD37B5DF for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:20:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from s467338@gettysburg.edu) Received: from jupiter2 (jupiter2 [138.234.4.6]) by facmail.cc.gettysburg.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA19028; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:20:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Reiter X-Sender: s467338@jupiter2 To: "G.B.Naidu" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver requirement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Quick note... in my tutorial on writing KLD's, it will include a section on an example character device skeleton. 3 of 5 sections are complete in this tutorial... so I suspect that son I will release it publically. Andrew On Mon, 22 May 2000, G.B.Naidu wrote: | |Hi, | |I would like to know about the device drivre development. I know the basic |concepts behind a device driver. But haven't written a driver my self. But |now time has come for me to do that. | |I need to develop a device driver for a ethernet switch/hub. So I would |like to have some clarifications: | |1. How much effort it takes for a real device driver to be written? |Please provide a realistic estimate. I guess somebody might have written |some commercial device drivres. | |2. What all information do I need to design a device driver? I have the |data sheets of the product available from the net. Anything else I need? | |3. How do I decide whether a driver has to be block device or character |device? | |4. I went through the two documents posted on the list about newbus. Is it |mandatory that one has to use newbus architecture from FreeBSD 4.0 |onwards? Frankly speaking I didnt understand much of the documents. | |5. I would like to know where I can get the small driver written by Warner |Losh? | |6. Any other info on device drivers for freeBSD other than these two |documents posted on the list? I checked in the handbook but there seems |nothing on device drivres. | | |thanks in advance |--gb | | | | | |To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org |with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message | --------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Reiter Computer Security Engineer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 7:58:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C1937B556 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:58:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babolo@links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17979; Mon, 22 May 2000 18:57:05 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200005221457.SAA17979@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! In-Reply-To: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> from "Alfred Perlstein" at "May 22, 0 02:59:01 am" To: bright@wintelcom.net (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:57:05 +0400 (MSD) Cc: sh_fazelian@yahoo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein writes: > > 2- how I can write somthing in a file that nobody can > > see them > > my mean: in crontab adding some command that this is > > hidden. > impossible(*) afaik. possible if use similar to linux emulator method to redirect open(2) - but it is TOO expansive and kernel need to be changed IMHO for this -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 8:24:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9002837BA11 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from calcaphon.demon.co.uk ([193.237.19.5] helo=bluebottle.qubesoft.com) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12tu4G-000OuE-0C; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:24:33 +0000 Received: from henny.webweaving.org (henny.qubesoft.com [192.168.1.5]) by bluebottle.qubesoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA39145; Mon, 22 May 2000 16:23:08 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by henny.webweaving.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05718; Mon, 22 May 2000 16:06:19 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from n_hibma@calcaphon.com) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:06:19 +0100 (BST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@localhost Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: J McKitrick Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: boot/kernel debugging In-Reply-To: <20000522151352.G53733@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > You can single step at boot time, by setting the flags in the loader. > > None of this will be source level, correct? Will it at least have labels if > i use a debug kernel? With remote debugging it will be source level debugging, with DDB it will not. In both cases it will have labels. Even in modules. Nick -- n_hibma@webweaving.org n_hibma@freebsd.org USB project http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 8:36:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B3C37B9FE for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 08:36:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p12-dn03kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.232.224.141]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id AAA23246; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:35:49 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <392953BF.AE0F4588@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:35:27 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Reiter Cc: "G.B.Naidu" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver requirement... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Reiter wrote: > > Quick note... in my tutorial on writing KLD's, it will include a section > on an example character device skeleton. 3 of 5 sections are complete in > this tutorial... so I suspect that son I will release it publically. We had a a script, written by Julian, I think, in our tree that generated skeleton drivers for 2.2.x. I don't know if they ever got updated for 3.x, and I'm pretty confident they didn't get updated for 4.x. :-) But, still... you might want to replace them in our tree? -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@another.bsdconspiracy.org "Sentience hurts." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 9:16:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from facmail.cc.gettysburg.edu (facmail.gettysburg.edu [138.234.4.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F224A37BB16 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from s467338@gettysburg.edu) Received: from jupiter2 (jupiter2 [138.234.4.6]) by facmail.cc.gettysburg.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27445; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:15:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Reiter X-Sender: s467338@jupiter2 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: "G.B.Naidu" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver requirement... In-Reply-To: <392953BF.AE0F4588@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You are correct.. However, they were quite useless, imo. This tutorial will go into detail regarding each step of the skeleton for ading syscalls and device drivers so that hopefully anyone can quickly learn how to write them. Andrew On Tue, 23 May 2000, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: |Andrew Reiter wrote: |> |> Quick note... in my tutorial on writing KLD's, it will include a section |> on an example character device skeleton. 3 of 5 sections are complete in |> this tutorial... so I suspect that son I will release it publically. | |We had a a script, written by Julian, I think, in our tree that |generated skeleton drivers for 2.2.x. I don't know if they ever got |updated for 3.x, and I'm pretty confident they didn't get updated for |4.x. :-) But, still... you might want to replace them in our tree? | |-- |Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) |dcs@newsguy.com |dcs@freebsd.org |capo@another.bsdconspiracy.org | | "Sentience hurts." | | --------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Reiter Computer Security Engineer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 9:38:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arjun.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [206.20.52.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A85137BABC for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:38:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@niksun.com) Received: from falcon.niksun.com (falcon.niksun.com [10.0.0.167]) by arjun.niksun.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA41817 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:38:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from joy@falcon.niksun.com) Message-ID: <392962A3.311EC23B@falcon.niksun.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:38:59 -0400 From: Joy Ganguly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers Subject: SMP kernel compilation?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, i tried to compile a SMP kernel . but when it tries to load the kernel it gives me " undefined symbol" messages. the messages are:- intr_machdep.o(.data+0xc0): undefined reference to `Xtsintr0' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xc4): undefined reference to `Xtsintr1' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xc8): undefined reference to `Xtsintr2' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xcc): undefined reference to `Xtsintr3' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xd0): undefined reference to `Xtsintr4' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xd4): undefined reference to `Xtsintr5' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xd8): undefined reference to `Xtsintr6' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xdc): undefined reference to `Xtsintr7' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xe0): undefined reference to `Xtsintr8' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xe4): undefined reference to `Xtsintr9' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xe8): undefined reference to `Xtsintr10' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xec): undefined reference to `Xtsintr11' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xf0): undefined reference to `Xtsintr12' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xf4): undefined reference to `Xtsintr13' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xf8): undefined reference to `Xtsintr14' intr_machdep.o(.data+0xfc): undefined reference to `Xtsintr15' *** Error code 1 i grepped the source but couldnt find any reference to the above symbols. whats wrong??? thanx in advance joy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 10:16:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE5C37BC22 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24901 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:16:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Message-ID: <39296B54.92935A8B@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:16:04 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0508 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have two machines at home, one running 3.4-Stable which is my firewall/natd/file server machine. The other is running 5.0-Current (around 5/8 right now) which mounts a whole bunch of stuff via amd from the 3.4 machine. Up until say... 2 months ago, this worked really well. I never had any nfs performance problems. One of the things I mount for example is /usr/src, and my make world time didn't suffer much, if at all. However, at some point about 2 months ago (I wish I had a more definite time period, but the problem has kind of snuck up on me) I have been getting increasingly bad performance from the nfs mount. I get "nfs server not responding" errors periodically, sometimes lasting for a minute or more. Last night/this morning the nfs mount stopped completely, and my world build failed. I also tried mounting the src directory directly (no amd) and there was no improvement. I tried killing nfsiod on the workstation and that got things going again temporarily, but then it died again. So, I am intimately aware of the improvements in nfs in 4.0-Stable, so if the answer is to just upgrade and get it over with, no problem. I like to run one of my machines on the older branches to keep track of possible problems that might crop up at work, but that's no great sacrifice. However, if there is any interest in debugging this problem, I'd be glad to help. I've tried ktrace'ing the nfsd on the 3.4 machine, but I get no output (a 0 byte kdump file). I haven't been able to get a tcpdump yet, since it usually doesn't wedge itself long enough. In any case, if anyone is interested in this problem, let me know. If I don't hear from anyone by friday I'll likely go ahead and do the 4.0 upgrade. Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 10:17:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA78937BB29 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (doug@master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24911 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from DougB@gorean.org) Message-ID: <39296B99.1B212100@gorean.org> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:17:13 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT-0508 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: eBones really dead? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I read this weekend that eBones is dead, but I still see it in my src tree on -Current, so I'm curious as to what the status really is. Thanks, Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 10:24:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC1337BBD9 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:24:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA61109; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:24:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005221724.KAA61109@apollo.backplane.com> To: Doug Barton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? References: <39296B54.92935A8B@gorean.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : I have two machines at home, one running 3.4-Stable which is my :firewall/natd/file server machine. The other is running 5.0-Current :(around 5/8 right now) which mounts a whole bunch of stuff via amd from :the 3.4 machine. Up until say... 2 months ago, this worked really well. :I never had any nfs performance problems. One of the things I mount for :example is /usr/src, and my make world time didn't suffer much, if at :all. : : However, at some point about 2 months ago (I wish I had a more definite :time period, but the problem has kind of snuck up on me) I have been :getting increasingly bad performance from the nfs mount. I get "nfs :... :Doug First, make sure the 5.x machine is up to date. Second, start looking for network problems, because if you are getting 'host not responding' errors it's probably due to packet loss somewhere. NFS is particularly sensitive to packet loss. This doesn't sound like an NFS problem on the face of it. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 11:24:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from athena.lightningone.net (athena.lightningone.net [12.34.104.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1155137BC0C; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by athena.lightningone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA50331; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:35:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) X-Authentication-Warning: athena.lightningone.net: john owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:35:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Essenz Consulting X-Sender: john@athena.lightningone.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: msmith@freebsd.org Subject: Supermicro PIIIDM3 Problems... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I was doing a FreeBSD 4.0 Install on a fairly new Supermicro PIIIDM3 motherboard. I eventually got FreeBSD 4.0 installed, however, during the install, it kept hanging up and panicing. After trying to do a bin only install, it took about 7 trys until it didnt hang up and panic. When I did get it installed, everything worked, and it booted. But if I go into sysinstall and try to do a post install addition of, lets say src/sys, same thing happens. It freezes up and hangs part way throw, and eventually will throw up a panic error. Any ideas about the stability of the aix78xx driver for this motherboard and it's aic-7892 chip? -john v. e. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 11:33: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-206-88-224.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.206.88.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA2D37BEE3; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:32:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05342; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005221833.LAA05342@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Essenz Consulting Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, msmith@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supermicro PIIIDM3 Problems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 14:35:27 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:33:52 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can you be more specific about "panicing"? As far as details go, you're not helping yourself. > I was doing a FreeBSD 4.0 Install on a fairly new Supermicro PIIIDM3 > motherboard. I eventually got FreeBSD 4.0 installed, however, during the > install, it kept hanging up and panicing. After trying to do a bin only > install, it took about 7 trys until it didnt hang up and panic. When I did > get it installed, everything worked, and it booted. But if I go into > sysinstall and try to do a post install addition of, lets say src/sys, > same thing happens. It freezes up and hangs part way throw, and eventually > will throw up a panic error. > > Any ideas about the stability of the aix78xx driver for this motherboard > and it's aic-7892 chip? I use one of these boards on a daily basis; it's been very stable under both -stable and -current, although I don't use the SCSI interface very often anymore. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 11:39:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f7.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 93C4E37BB8B for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gerald_stoller@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 26601 invoked by uid 0); 22 May 2000 18:39:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20000522183945.26600.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.20.190.1 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:39:45 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.20.190.1] From: "gerald stoller" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: hashing a symbol before looking into a hashed table Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:39:45 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've been looking at the source code for FreeBSD 3.3 and i noticed that a table-lookUp is called and given the name to look-up and also its hashed value. Why is the hashed value supplied, why should the caller even be aware of it (this is strictly internal to the table-lookUp)? Even if there are differing hashing techniques for various tables, the caller shouldn't have to know which one to use. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 11:52:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rapidnet.com (rapidnet.com [205.164.216.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F34A637B8DB; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:52:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick@rapidnet.com) Received: from localhost (nick@localhost) by rapidnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18970; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:51:58 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:51:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Nick Rogness To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org Subject: IP tunnel Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can anyone tell me the difference between nos-tun(8) and gif(4) (Other than IPv6)? I want to create a tunnel between 2 networks (IPv4), 2 FreeBSD boxes... will one of these work or is this a different type of tunnel. I am familiar with Cisco tunnelling, I am assuming a similar concept. Anyone doing this already, if so sample configs? Is it possible? Thanks. Nick Rogness - Speak softly and carry a Gigabit switch. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 11:55:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arjun.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [206.20.52.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD6337BB8B for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:55:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@niksun.com) Received: from falcon.niksun.com (falcon.niksun.com [10.0.0.167]) by arjun.niksun.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA44045 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:55:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from joy@falcon.niksun.com) Message-ID: <392982C1.674000DD@falcon.niksun.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:56:02 -0400 From: Joy Ganguly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers Subject: SMP and APIC??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi i have compiled freeBSD 3.4 SMP. but when i try to boot it the kernel shows "Testing APIC 8254" and then it hangs. earlier i had run mptable and it showed:I/O APICs: ---------------------- {Lots of stuff}.... APIC ID Version State Address 2 0x20 usable 0xfec00000 3 0x20 usable 0xfd8df000 and then...... options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O # Optional (built-in defaults will work in most cases): #options NCPU=2 # number of CPUs #options NBUS=6 # number of busses #options NAPIC=2 # number of IO APICs #options NINTR=24 # number of INTs i am totally clueless. whats going on??? thanx in advance joy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12: 1:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from panzer.kdm.org (panzer.kdm.org [216.160.178.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D3B37B5D7; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.kdm.org) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.kdm.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA07282; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:01:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ken) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:01:35 -0600 From: "Kenneth D. Merry" To: Mike Smith Cc: Essenz Consulting , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Supermicro PIIIDM3 Problems... Message-ID: <20000522130135.A7235@panzer.kdm.org> References: <200005221833.LAA05342@mass.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200005221833.LAA05342@mass.cdrom.com>; from msmith@FreeBSD.ORG on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 11:33:52AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 11:33:52 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > Can you be more specific about "panicing"? As far as details go, you're > not helping yourself. > > > I was doing a FreeBSD 4.0 Install on a fairly new Supermicro PIIIDM3 > > motherboard. I eventually got FreeBSD 4.0 installed, however, during the > > install, it kept hanging up and panicing. After trying to do a bin only > > install, it took about 7 trys until it didnt hang up and panic. When I did > > get it installed, everything worked, and it booted. But if I go into > > sysinstall and try to do a post install addition of, lets say src/sys, > > same thing happens. It freezes up and hangs part way throw, and eventually > > will throw up a panic error. > > > > Any ideas about the stability of the aix78xx driver for this motherboard > > and it's aic-7892 chip? > > I use one of these boards on a daily basis; it's been very stable under > both -stable and -current, although I don't use the SCSI interface very > often anymore. Well, one question is whether or not you have ECC memory in the machine, and if so, if you have parity checking or ECC turned on. Mike's board doesn't have ECC memory, and I've been trying to find someone with a SuperMicro 840 board with ECC turned on. (To see whether their boards have the problem with the MRH-S chip.) As far as the 7892 chip, the driver should be pretty stable, I don't think other folks have had trouble with it. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@kdm.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12: 7:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-206-88-224.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.206.88.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF3C37B5D7 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:07:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05488; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:08:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005221908.MAA05488@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: Essenz Consulting , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Supermicro PIIIDM3 Problems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 13:01:35 MDT." <20000522130135.A7235@panzer.kdm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:08:08 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Well, one question is whether or not you have ECC memory in the machine, > and if so, if you have parity checking or ECC turned on. > > Mike's board doesn't have ECC memory, and I've been trying to find someone > with a SuperMicro 840 board with ECC turned on. (To see whether their > boards have the problem with the MRH-S chip.) Sorry, I thought I followed up on this. I was lent a couple of 133MHz FSB CPUs and some PC100 ECC memory by ASA Computers; the 133MHz CPUs don't like this board, but the ECC memory worked fine with the 100MHz FSB CPUs I've been using. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12: 8:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jason.argos.org (a1-3b058.neo.rr.com [24.93.181.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D8A37B62D; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:08:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@argos.org) Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by jason.argos.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21551; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:08:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:08:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Nowlin To: Nick Rogness Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Can anyone tell me the difference between nos-tun(8) and gif(4) (Other > than IPv6)? I want to create a tunnel between 2 networks (IPv4), 2 > FreeBSD boxes... will one of these work or is this a different type > of tunnel. I am familiar with Cisco tunnelling, I am assuming a similar > concept. Anyone doing this already, if so sample configs? Is it > possible? I'm using nos-tun(8) between Cisco 2610/1720 routers and FBSD machines to make various subnets show up where they shouldn't... I have a /24 at one office and a /25 at another one -- wanted to have a /29 from each of these appear at my house. Works quite well... mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12: 9: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from athena.lightningone.net (athena.lightningone.net [12.34.104.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457AD37B62D; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by athena.lightningone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA50759; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:19:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) X-Authentication-Warning: athena.lightningone.net: john owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:19:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Essenz Consulting X-Sender: john@athena.lightningone.net To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Supermicro PIIIDM3 Problems... In-Reply-To: <20000522130135.A7235@panzer.kdm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On the PIIIDM3 that I was working with I had both ECC and PC100 SDRAM. I forget what I had and when. I did though at one point have ECC unbuffered memory, and had ECC enabled. I will have some more of these boards later these week and will retest them, making note of what I have in there. I'll try ecc and pc100 individual and play with the settings, to see if I can find exactly what configuration is giving the problem. -john v. e. On Mon, 22 May 2000, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 11:33:52 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > Can you be more specific about "panicing"? As far as details go, you're > > not helping yourself. > > > > > I was doing a FreeBSD 4.0 Install on a fairly new Supermicro PIIIDM3 > > > motherboard. I eventually got FreeBSD 4.0 installed, however, during the > > > install, it kept hanging up and panicing. After trying to do a bin only > > > install, it took about 7 trys until it didnt hang up and panic. When I did > > > get it installed, everything worked, and it booted. But if I go into > > > sysinstall and try to do a post install addition of, lets say src/sys, > > > same thing happens. It freezes up and hangs part way throw, and eventually > > > will throw up a panic error. > > > > > > Any ideas about the stability of the aix78xx driver for this motherboard > > > and it's aic-7892 chip? > > > > I use one of these boards on a daily basis; it's been very stable under > > both -stable and -current, although I don't use the SCSI interface very > > often anymore. > > Well, one question is whether or not you have ECC memory in the machine, > and if so, if you have parity checking or ECC turned on. > > Mike's board doesn't have ECC memory, and I've been trying to find someone > with a SuperMicro 840 board with ECC turned on. (To see whether their > boards have the problem with the MRH-S chip.) > > As far as the 7892 chip, the driver should be pretty stable, I don't think > other folks have had trouble with it. > > Ken > -- > Kenneth Merry > ken@kdm.org > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12: 9:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-206-88-224.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.206.88.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A2F37B568 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:09:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05529; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:11:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005221911.MAA05529@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Joy Ganguly Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: SMP and APIC??? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 14:56:02 EDT." <392982C1.674000DD@falcon.niksun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:11:02 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This sounds like a known problem with 3.4 and the timer interrupt routing code. You will need to update to 4.0 to work around it. > i have compiled freeBSD 3.4 SMP. but when i try to boot it the kernel > shows "Testing APIC 8254" and then it hangs. earlier i had run mptable > and it showed:I/O APICs: > ---------------------- > {Lots of stuff}.... > > APIC ID Version State Address > 2 0x20 usable 0xfec00000 > 3 0x20 usable 0xfd8df000 > > > and then...... > > options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor > Kernel > options APIC_IO # Symmetric (APIC) I/O > > # Optional (built-in defaults will work in most cases): > #options NCPU=2 # number of CPUs > #options NBUS=6 # number of busses > #options NAPIC=2 # number of IO APICs > #options NINTR=24 # number of INTs > > i am totally clueless. whats going on??? > > thanx in advance > > joy > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12:16:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2292137B784 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 58378 invoked by uid 1001); 22 May 2000 19:15:29 +0000 (GMT) To: joy@niksun.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freeBSD.org Subject: Re: SMP and APIC??? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 14:56:02 -0400" References: <392982C1.674000DD@falcon.niksun.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:15:29 +0200 Message-ID: <58375.959022929@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i have compiled freeBSD 3.4 SMP. but when i try to boot it the kernel > shows "Testing APIC 8254" and then it hangs. earlier i had run mptable > and it showed:I/O APICs: > ---------------------- > {Lots of stuff}.... > > APIC ID Version State Address > 2 0x20 usable 0xfec00000 > 3 0x20 usable 0xfd8df000 You seem to have two IO APICs. You need options NAPIC=2 # number of IO APICs in the kernel config, *and* the following patch to sys/i386/i386/pmap.c (this patch is in 3.4-STABLE, but not in 3.4-RELEASE). Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *** pmap.c.orig Sat Apr 1 23:58:17 2000 --- pmap.c Tue Apr 25 23:59:29 2000 *************** *** 434,441 **** for (j = 0; j < 16; j++) { /* same page frame as a previous IO apic? */ if (((vm_offset_t)SMP_prvpt[j + 16] & PG_FRAME) == ! (io_apic_address[0] & PG_FRAME)) { ! ioapic[i] = (ioapic_t *)&SMP_ioapic[j * PAGE_SIZE]; break; } /* use this slot if available */ --- 434,442 ---- for (j = 0; j < 16; j++) { /* same page frame as a previous IO apic? */ if (((vm_offset_t)SMP_prvpt[j + 16] & PG_FRAME) == ! (io_apic_address[i] & PG_FRAME)) { ! ioapic[i] = (ioapic_t *)&SMP_ioapic[j * PAGE_SIZE ! + (io_apic_address[i] & PAGE_MASK)]; break; } /* use this slot if available */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12:16:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267C137B784 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:16:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4MJn5q00527; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:49:04 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" Cc: sh_fazelian@yahoo.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! Message-ID: <20000522124904.V28097@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> <200005221457.SAA17979@aaz.links.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200005221457.SAA17979@aaz.links.ru>; from babolo@links.ru on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 06:57:05PM +0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Aleksandr A.Babaylov [000522 08:30] wrote: > Alfred Perlstein writes: > > > 2- how I can write somthing in a file that nobody can > > > see them > > > my mean: in crontab adding some command that this is > > > hidden. > > impossible(*) afaik. > possible if use similar to linux emulator method > to redirect open(2) - but it is TOO expansive > and kernel need to be changed IMHO for this Why not just trojan cron or any other deamon to periodically execute some program? After a compromise it's best to just reinstall and audit the rest of your machines. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12:20:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-206-88-224.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.206.88.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4BED37B8DB for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05576; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:16:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005221916.MAA05576@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Essenz Consulting Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Supermicro PIIIDM3 Problems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 15:19:49 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:16:38 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On the PIIIDM3 that I was working with I had both ECC and PC100 SDRAM. I > forget what I had and when. I did though at one point have ECC unbuffered > memory, and had ECC enabled. I will have some more of these boards later > these week and will retest them, making note of what I have in there. I'll > try ecc and pc100 individual and play with the settings, to see if I can > find exactly what configuration is giving the problem. If you're using 133MHz FSB CPUs, start there; see my reply to Ken. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 12:38:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arjun.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [206.20.52.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9091537BADE for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@niksun.com) Received: from falcon.niksun.com (falcon.niksun.com [10.0.0.167]) by arjun.niksun.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA44697; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:37:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from joy@falcon.niksun.com) Message-ID: <39298CA3.1C6F68F2@falcon.niksun.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:38:11 -0400 From: Joy Ganguly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sthaug@nethelp.no, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: SMP and APIC??? References: <392982C1.674000DD@falcon.niksun.com> <58375.959022929@verdi.nethelp.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > i have compiled freeBSD 3.4 SMP. but when i try to boot it the kernel > > shows "Testing APIC 8254" and then it hangs. earlier i had run mptable > > and it showed:I/O APICs: > > ---------------------- > > {Lots of stuff}.... > > > > APIC ID Version State Address > > 2 0x20 usable 0xfec00000 > > 3 0x20 usable 0xfd8df000 > > You seem to have two IO APICs. You need > > options NAPIC=2 # number of IO APICs > > in the kernel config, *and* the following patch to sys/i386/i386/pmap.c > (this patch is in 3.4-STABLE, but not in 3.4-RELEASE). thanx .... it is working now. though frankly i am still clueless about how it is working. are there any docs about SMP on freebsd?? joy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 13:16:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE90837B775 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:16:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25847; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:16:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:16:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt051n0b.san.rr.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? In-Reply-To: <200005221724.KAA61109@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 May 2000, Matthew Dillon wrote: > : I have two machines at home, one running 3.4-Stable which is my > :firewall/natd/file server machine. The other is running 5.0-Current > :(around 5/8 right now) which mounts a whole bunch of stuff via amd from > :the 3.4 machine. Up until say... 2 months ago, this worked really well. > :I never had any nfs performance problems. One of the things I mount for > :example is /usr/src, and my make world time didn't suffer much, if at > :all. > : > : However, at some point about 2 months ago (I wish I had a more definite > :time period, but the problem has kind of snuck up on me) I have been > :getting increasingly bad performance from the nfs mount. I get "nfs > :... > :Doug > > First, make sure the 5.x machine is up to date. I'm going to upgrade it today, I'm checking out a new source tree local to the workstation machine. > Second, start looking for network problems, because if you are getting > 'host not responding' errors it's probably due to packet loss somewhere. > NFS is particularly sensitive to packet loss. This doesn't sound like > an NFS problem on the face of it. The errors are of the sort: workstation /kernel: nfs server fileserver:/usr/ncvs: not responding It's possible that it's a network problem I suppose, although I'm using a crossover cable from an fxp0 in the workstation to an xl0 in the fileserver. Both are running at 10Mb, full duplex. Netstat -id shows: From the workstation: Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop fxp0 1500 32102492 0 31653667 0 30900 0 From the fileserver: Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop xl0 1500 32504173 28967 32900227 0 0 0 I did find it a little unusual that I was getting collisions on a crossover cable, but when I looked at the mail archives related to that problem I read that the intel cards are very aggressive packet pushers, and that this isn't all that unusual. The ratio of good packets to collisions seemed healthy enough to not warrant too much concern. Hrrrmm... I just took a look at the settings for each card. I did not specify full duplex in the fxp0 ifconfig line, since autoselect has always worked before. I ran 'ping -f' simultaneously on both hosts, and did experience a 4% packet loss on one host, and 1% on the other. Changing to an explicit: ifconfig fxp0 inet 10.0.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 media 10baseT/UTP mediaopt full-duplex gets me 0 packet loss on both sides. So you may be right Matt, it may be a network error after all. I'll give it another test run and see what I can see. In case it's significant, the fileserver has been up for 11 days (last make world) and the workstation has been up for two. Thanks, Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 13:32:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63BD137B5A2 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:32:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA62259; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:32:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:32:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005222032.NAA62259@apollo.backplane.com> To: Doug Barton Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :>From the workstation: :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop :fxp0 1500 32102492 0 31653667 0 30900 0 : :>From the fileserver: :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop :xl0 1500 32504173 28967 32900227 0 0 0 : : I did find it a little unusual that I was getting collisions on a :crossover cable, but when I looked at the mail archives related to that :problem I read that the intel cards are very aggressive packet pushers, :and that this isn't all that unusual. The ratio of good packets to :collisions seemed healthy enough to not warrant too much concern. 28967 input errors on xl0? Problem! But the real problem is that you are attempting to do 10BaseT full-duplex. Full-duplex operation with 10BaseT is problematic at best. Full duplex has good interoperability at 100BaseTX speeds, but not at 10BaseT speeds. Crossover cables work fine, usually, but I personally *never* use them. I always throw a switch in between the machines and let it negotiate the duplex mode with each machine independantly, plus it gives me nice shiny LEDs that tell me what the switch thinks the port is doing as a sanity check. :always worked before. I ran 'ping -f' simultaneously on both hosts, and :did experience a 4% packet loss on one host, and 1% on the other. Changing :to an explicit: : :ifconfig fxp0 inet 10.0.0.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 media 10baseT/UTP :mediaopt full-duplex : :gets me 0 packet loss on both sides. So you may be right Matt, it may be a :network error after all. I'll give it another test run and see what I can :see. :... :Thanks, : :Doug Given what you've described, I'm dead certain it is (or was :-)). p.s. Throw away your 10BaseT switches and hubs and go get 100BaseTX switches, they're getting real cheap and modern machines can push the bandwidth just fine (even the crappy cards). Don't buy HUBs (10 or 100), switches are a whole lot faster and a whole lot easier to troubleshoot. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 13:50:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F97337B55D; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA95802; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Doug Barton Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: eBones really dead? In-Reply-To: <39296B99.1B212100@gorean.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 May 2000, Doug Barton wrote: > I read this weekend that eBones is dead, but I still see it in my src > tree on -Current, so I'm curious as to what the status really is. All of the files are in the attic in my repo. Are you sure this isn't just a leftover from a machine which was updated from 2.2.(<6)? Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 13:51: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 181F537BC56 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:51:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07884 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:49:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA97718; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005222048.OAA97718@harmony.village.org> To: Joy Ganguly Subject: Re: SMP kernel compilation?? Cc: freebsd-hackers In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 12:38:59 EDT." <392962A3.311EC23B@falcon.niksun.com> References: <392962A3.311EC23B@falcon.niksun.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:48:44 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <392962A3.311EC23B@falcon.niksun.com> Joy Ganguly writes: : i tried to compile a SMP kernel . but when it tries to load the kernel : it gives me " undefined symbol" messages. the messages are:- Make depend? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 13:55:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7ED937BAA6 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26024; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:55:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:55:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt051n0b.san.rr.com To: Matthew Dillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? In-Reply-To: <200005222032.NAA62259@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 May 2000, Matthew Dillon wrote: > :>From the workstation: > :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop > :fxp0 1500 32102492 0 31653667 0 30900 0 > : > :>From the fileserver: > :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop > :xl0 1500 32504173 28967 32900227 0 0 0 > : > : I did find it a little unusual that I was getting collisions on a > :crossover cable, but when I looked at the mail archives related to that > :problem I read that the intel cards are very aggressive packet pushers, > :and that this isn't all that unusual. The ratio of good packets to > :collisions seemed healthy enough to not warrant too much concern. > > 28967 input errors on xl0? Problem! heh... ok, I can take a hint. > But the real problem is that you are attempting to do 10BaseT > full-duplex. Full-duplex operation with 10BaseT is problematic > at best. Full duplex has good interoperability at 100BaseTX speeds, > but not at 10BaseT speeds. Ok, I learned something new. :) I've had "get another fxp0 and a real switch" for the home network on my list for a while now, I guess it's time to move that up a little. > Crossover cables work fine, usually, but I personally *never* use them. > I always throw a switch in between the machines and let it negotiate > the duplex mode with each machine independantly, plus it gives me nice > shiny LEDs that tell me what the switch thinks the port is doing as > a sanity check. Yeah, I miss the blinky lights. I went to the x-over cable because the hub I bought originally was giving me non-stop collisions under load. It worked really well for about 5 months, then the last couple months it's given me problems. I'm still learning the whole networking thing, so I appreciate the insight. Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 13:57: 7 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540C837BDF2 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 13:57:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA79344; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:56:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:56:11 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Shadi Fazelian , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! In-Reply-To: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 May 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Shadi Fazelian [000522 02:31] wrote: > > Hello. > > please guide me: > > 1- how I can see a hidden file (not dot file) and how > > I can hidden a file ? > > my mean: I want make a file that ls -al can't see it. > > impossible(*) afaik. dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 536$ ls -al | grep .snapshot dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 537$ ls -al .snapshot total 60 drwxrwxrwx 2 root wheel 4096 May 22 15:01 . drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 15:51 .. drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 14:58 hourly.0 drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:52 hourly.1 drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:00 hourly.2 drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 10:52 hourly.3 drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.0 drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.1 dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 538$ doesn't count then? This is a directory NFS-mounted from a NetApp. The .snapshot directory is a lifesaver, and support cost cutter. David Scheidt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 14: 4:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D273A37BC6E for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:04:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 63036 invoked by uid 1001); 22 May 2000 21:04:42 +0000 (GMT) To: Doug@gorean.org Cc: dillon@apollo.backplane.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 13:55:24 -0700 (PDT)" References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:04:42 +0200 Message-ID: <63034.959029482@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yeah, I miss the blinky lights. I went to the x-over cable because > the hub I bought originally was giving me non-stop collisions under > load. It should be noted that a lot of collisions is *expected* under load. If you saturate a half-duplex segment (using for instance ttcp), the sender would expect to see about 50% collisions (every other full size TCP packet from the sender will collide with an ACK from the receiver), and the receiver would expect to see 100% collisions. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 14:13:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F3837BC8E for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:13:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA65126; Mon, 22 May 2000 22:14:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00794; Mon, 22 May 2000 20:12:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200005221912.UAA00794@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Sergey Babkin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, brian@hak.lan.awfulhak.org Subject: Re: de-GNUfication of Digiboard driver ? In-Reply-To: Message from Sergey Babkin of "Tue, 16 May 2000 14:13:17 EDT." <39218FBD.1FA9B252@bellatlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:12:39 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG More work needs to be done here... The dgb and dgm drivers are almost the same, and the dgb driver doesn't probe my digiboard at the moment (I don't know if this is due to broken hardware or a broken driver). The driver doesn't conform to style(9) and needs to be newbusified. I've been intending to work on this driver for over a year now :-/ If you're not interested in the other issues, BSDifying it would be an excellent start though :-) Send me the patches and I'll commit. Cheers. > Hi, > > I've been reading recently some stories about the licensing > issues and that brought me to an interesting conclusion: > > apparently, we are able to change the license of the Digiboard > driver from GPL to BSD ? It does not seem to be that much important > any more as these cards are obsolete, but still. > > I was the original author of that driver. To get the information > about the Digi interface I've read the Linux driver. I supposed > that it made me mentally contaminated with GPL. But all the FreeBSD > driver was written from scratch, with none of the Linux code > re-used (except for the array with the image of firmware but > apparently that one was available as well from non-GPL-contaminated > sources, such as Digi's drivers for other Unixes). > > But now looking at the BSD-USL case it seems like I was wrong about > the mental contamination. Apparently none of the author of the later > changes to this driver were enthusiastic about GPL as well. > > So if I'm getting the things right, can we just go ahead now and > change its license to BSD ? Or am I wrong ? > > -SB -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 14:42:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from corinth.bossig.com (corinth.bossig.com [208.26.239.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BF437B7DF for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:42:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kstewart@3-cities.com) Received: from 3-cities.com (unverified [208.26.241.211]) by corinth.bossig.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:43:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3929A9C4.BE273679@3-cities.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:42:28 -0700 From: Kent Stewart Organization: BOSSig (BOSS Internet Group) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton Cc: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Barton wrote: > > On Mon, 22 May 2000, Matthew Dillon wrote: > > > :>From the workstation: > > :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop > > :fxp0 1500 32102492 0 31653667 0 30900 0 > > : > > :>From the fileserver: > > :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop > > :xl0 1500 32504173 28967 32900227 0 0 0 > > : > > : I did find it a little unusual that I was getting collisions on a > > :crossover cable, but when I looked at the mail archives related to that > > :problem I read that the intel cards are very aggressive packet pushers, > > :and that this isn't all that unusual. The ratio of good packets to > > :collisions seemed healthy enough to not warrant too much concern. > > > > 28967 input errors on xl0? Problem! > > heh... ok, I can take a hint. > > > But the real problem is that you are attempting to do 10BaseT > > full-duplex. Full-duplex operation with 10BaseT is problematic > > at best. Full duplex has good interoperability at 100BaseTX speeds, > > but not at 10BaseT speeds. > > Ok, I learned something new. :) I've had "get another fxp0 and a > real switch" for the home network on my list for a while now, I guess it's > time to move that up a little. > > > Crossover cables work fine, usually, but I personally *never* use them. > > I always throw a switch in between the machines and let it negotiate > > the duplex mode with each machine independantly, plus it gives me nice > > shiny LEDs that tell me what the switch thinks the port is doing as > > a sanity check. > > Yeah, I miss the blinky lights. I went to the x-over cable because > the hub I bought originally was giving me non-stop collisions under > load. It worked really well for about 5 months, then the last couple > months it's given me problems. I'm still learning the whole networking > thing, so I appreciate the insight. I had an fxp0 that the mounting bracket was a little long and the pressure of screwing it down messed things up. I would get 10MB/s out but only 10KB/s into that system. It was dropping 300-700 bytes in some packets. I found out last night that I could remove the screw and it worked just fine. An old 3C905-TX didn't have the problem either but I only got 8-9MB/s. A spare fxp0 also didn't have the problem and it was 11MB/s both directions. Kent > > Doug > -- > "Live free or die" > - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire > > Do YOU Yahoo!? > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA mailto:kstewart@3-cities.com http://www.3-cities.com/~kstewart/index.html FreeBSD News http://daily.daemonnews.org/ SETI(Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) @ HOME http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ Hunting Archibald Stewart, b 1802 in Ballymena, Antrim Co., NIR http://www.3-cities.com/~kstewart/genealogy/archibald_stewart.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 15: 0:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881EA37B53F for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:00:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4MMXoJ05632; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:33:50 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: David Scheidt Cc: Shadi Fazelian , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! Message-ID: <20000522153349.Z28097@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: ; from dscheidt@enteract.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 03:56:11PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * David Scheidt [000522 14:30] wrote: > On Mon, 22 May 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > * Shadi Fazelian [000522 02:31] wrote: > > > Hello. > > > please guide me: > > > 1- how I can see a hidden file (not dot file) and how > > > I can hidden a file ? > > > my mean: I want make a file that ls -al can't see it. > > > > impossible(*) afaik. > > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 536$ ls -al | grep .snapshot > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 537$ ls -al .snapshot > total 60 > drwxrwxrwx 2 root wheel 4096 May 22 15:01 . > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 15:51 .. > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 14:58 hourly.0 > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:52 hourly.1 > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:00 hourly.2 > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 10:52 hourly.3 > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.0 > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.1 > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 538$ > > doesn't count then? This is a directory NFS-mounted from a NetApp. The > .snapshot directory is a lifesaver, and support cost cutter. If the netapp doesn't honor readdir requests properly then it's breaking unix semantics. Netapp is broken, there's no reason to intentionally hide this directory from readdir. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 15:40:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9431437B658 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:40:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26251; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:40:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:40:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt051n0b.san.rr.com To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? In-Reply-To: <63034.959029482@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 May 2000 sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > > Yeah, I miss the blinky lights. I went to the x-over cable because > > the hub I bought originally was giving me non-stop collisions under > > load. > > It should be noted that a lot of collisions is *expected* under load. Yes, I'm not quite _that_ much of a neophyte. :) When I first set those machines up the hub was fine, since I wasn't pushing a lot of traffic through it. As soon as I started to experiment with the nfs, samba, etc. it was clear that the hub wasn't cutting it anymore, and free (I made the x-over cable from parts I had at hand) was better than $100+ for a switch. I'm going to be adding another machine to that network though, so it's switch time now either way. Thanks for the input (and to the others who've mailed me as well), Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 16: 8:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vuurwerk.nl (envy.vuurwerk.nl [194.178.232.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 09B4637B63A for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 16:08:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from petervd@vuurwerk.nl) Received: (qmail 61935 invoked from network); 22 May 2000 23:08:43 -0000 Received: from kesteren.vuurwerk.nl (HELO vuurwerk.nl) (194.178.232.59) by envy.vuurwerk.nl with SMTP; 22 May 2000 23:08:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 6735 invoked by uid 11109); 22 May 2000 23:08:42 -0000 Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:08:42 +0200 From: Peter van Dijk To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! Message-ID: <20000523010842.A6560@vuurwerk.nl> References: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> <20000522153349.Z28097@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000522153349.Z28097@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 03:33:50PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 03:33:50PM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 536$ ls -al | grep .snapshot > > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 537$ ls -al .snapshot > > total 60 > > drwxrwxrwx 2 root wheel 4096 May 22 15:01 . > > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 15:51 .. > > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 14:58 hourly.0 > > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:52 hourly.1 > > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:00 hourly.2 > > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 10:52 hourly.3 > > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.0 > > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.1 > > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 538$ > > > > doesn't count then? This is a directory NFS-mounted from a NetApp. The > > .snapshot directory is a lifesaver, and support cost cutter. > > If the netapp doesn't honor readdir requests properly then it's > breaking unix semantics. > > Netapp is broken, there's no reason to intentionally hide this > directory from readdir. bash$ ls -al /home/staff total 53 drwxr-xr-x 13 root vwstaff 4096 May 16 13:46 . drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Mar 28 17:44 .. drwxrwxrwx 10 root wheel 4096 May 23 00:00 .snapshot Ours apparently isn't, and I have seen .snapshot dirs from shellboxes on lots of other NetApps too. I can't find the relevant config-option right now, if there is one. Greetz, Peter. -- petervd@vuurwerk.nl - Peter van Dijk [student:developer:madly in love] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 16:17:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cassandra.wayward-volvo.org (cassandra.wayward-volvo.org [207.181.249.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 191F937B63A for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 16:17:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cnielsen@pobox.com) Received: (qmail 6212 invoked by uid 1000); 22 May 2000 23:16:57 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 May 2000 23:16:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:16:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Nielsen X-Sender: enkhyl@cassandra.wayward-volvo.org Reply-To: cnielsen@pobox.com To: Graham Wheeler Cc: Dmitry Samersoff , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [net] bpf question In-Reply-To: <39292998.4C55739A@cequrux.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 22 May 2000, Graham Wheeler wrote: > If my memory serves me correctly, Marcus Ranum wrote a white paper on > IDS systems in the early days of NFR, in which he said that the existing > configuration of BPF was inadequate for capturing all packets on a fast > link, and suggested a patch to improve the situation. THe patch involved > bumping up a buffer from about 16kb to 256kb. Unfortunately I no longer > have the details handy, but if you did a search for BPF/IDS/NFR/Ranum > you might find something. http://www.nfr.net/forum/publications/LISA-97.htm -- Christopher Nielsen (enkhyl|cnielsen)@pobox.com Enkhyl on IRC Space monekys ate my brain: No such file or directory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 17:40:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DC937B9C3; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:40:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29395; Tue, 23 May 2000 01:11:48 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:11:48 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Teaching sysinstall about the documentation packages Message-ID: <20000523011148.A27853@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ -doc, -hackers, and jkh.pl on the To: line. Watch those replies :-) ] For those that haven't been keeping up at the back, Doc. Project package generation is now pretty stable. What this means is that if you take yourself off to ftp.FreeBSD.org:/pub/FreeBSD/doc/packages/ and take a look in there, you'll see one package for each document, format, and language combination we currently support, all ripe for putting through pkg_add(1). Modulo some final testing, automatic generation of these is pretty much sorted. So, the time has come to think about ripping out the doc distro from "make release", and to teach sysinstall about these packages instead. Much as I relish the chance to do this, I'm already up to >here< with other doc. proj. pointy-hair work and all the fun things that entails, so I'm not going to get the chance to do this any time soon. Any volunteers? N -- Internet connection, $19.95 a month. Computer, $799.95. Modem, $149.95. Telephone line, $24.95 a month. Software, free. USENET transmission, hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thinking before posting, priceless. Somethings in life you can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard. -- Graham Reed, in the Scary Devil Monastery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 19:41:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D0537B54E for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08519 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 02:41:40 GMT (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:11:40 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Patch to get Cron to do UTC cron jobs Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Early January this year Bjorn Danielsson posted a patch for cron which allowed it to have UTC cronjobs. The message is at -> http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=28667+30785+/usr/local/www/db/text/2 000/freebsd-hackers/20000116.freebsd-hackers The patch is at -> http://urquell.pilsnet.sunet.se:8000/cron-utc-patch.txt Any chance of having this committed? IMHO it is very useful to have. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 20:19:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from camel.ethereal.net (camel.ethereal.net [216.200.22.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1725037B53C; Mon, 22 May 2000 20:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@camel.ethereal.net) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by camel.ethereal.net (8.10.0.Beta10/8.10.0.Beta10) id e4N3J0940092; Mon, 22 May 2000 20:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:19:00 -0700 From: Jan Koum To: Christopher Nielsen Cc: Graham Wheeler , Dmitry Samersoff , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [net] bpf question Message-ID: <20000522201900.A39617@ethereal.net> References: <39292998.4C55739A@cequrux.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.1i In-Reply-To: ; from cnielsen@pobox.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 04:16:56PM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD camel.ethereal.net 3.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE X-Unix-Uptime: 8:11PM up 17 days, 6:48, 30 users, load averages: 1.15, 1.17, 1.16 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i think the buffer is 32K (from BPF_MAXBUFSIZE in bpf.h) and you should be able to bump it up a bit on your box if you wish. it might help. also, maybe we should consider upping the default buffer size in our tree? On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 04:16:56PM -0700, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > On Mon, 22 May 2000, Graham Wheeler wrote: > > > If my memory serves me correctly, Marcus Ranum wrote a white paper on > > IDS systems in the early days of NFR, in which he said that the existing > > configuration of BPF was inadequate for capturing all packets on a fast > > link, and suggested a patch to improve the situation. THe patch involved > > bumping up a buffer from about 16kb to 256kb. Unfortunately I no longer > > have the details handy, but if you did a search for BPF/IDS/NFR/Ranum > > you might find something. > > http://www.nfr.net/forum/publications/LISA-97.htm > > -- > Christopher Nielsen > (enkhyl|cnielsen)@pobox.com > Enkhyl on IRC > Space monekys ate my brain: No such file or directory > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-net" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon May 22 21: 9:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mega.mega.nu (mega.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B1237B8E6 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 21:09:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from douzzer@mega.mega.nu) Received: (from douzzer@localhost) by mega.mega.nu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA24720; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:09:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from douzzer@mega.mega.nu) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200005230409.AAA24720@mega.mega.nu> X-Authentication-Warning: mega.mega.nu: douzzer set sender to douzzer@mega.mega.nu using -f To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: new device drivers for RME soundcard and G400-TV From: Daniel Pouzzner Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm about to get cracking on a device driver for the RME Digi96/8 PAD. The card's full set of I/O channels is: S/PDIF I/O (2 channels in, 2 out, 16-24 bits@32-96kHz), AES/EBU I/O (2ch in, 2 out, 16-24 bits@32-96kHz), analog I/O (2ch in, 2 out, 16-24 bits@32-96kHz), and ADAT I/O (8 channels in, 8 out, 16-24 bits@44.1 or 48kHz). The hardware supports on-board routing between these channels, e.g. ADAT->S/PDIF or S/PDIF->ADAT. I will be supporting these features. For those who are simply curious about features, see http://www.rme-audio.com/english/digi96/digi96pa.htm My starting point (what I have in hand) is (1) a complete and functioning driver (supporting most key functionalities of the card) for Linux and the ALSA ("Advanced Linux Sound Architecture") subsystem, and (2) complete internal documentation on the card, from the manufacturer. Is FreeBSD's OSS-like audio subsystem powerful enough to provide access to all the card's features (particularly, all its ports, word sizes, and sample rates)? ac97.c goes only to 20 bits/sample, for example, but the card is 24 bits throughout. I have to decide what strategy to pursue: do I write a new driver based on an existing FreeBSD driver, using the Linux driver for hints, or do I use a FreeBSD driver for hints, basing the new driver on the Linux one (and thereby winding up with a GPL'd driver)? Or indeed do I write a driver truly from the ground up? The only FreeBSD soundcard driver I know of that includes analog and digital I/O support is the SB Live! driver, which in my experience doesn't work particularly well (in particular, capture didn't work at all when I tried it in April), so my sense is that there exists no smoothly working FreeBSD driver for a soundcard with anything remotely approaching the capabilities of the RME products. Finally, I have to decide whether I will port the ALSA library (in whole or in part - appealing because it would facilitate support for the dozens of other soundcards ALSA supports and FreeBSD doesn't), write a glue layer so that a driver that supplies an ALSA-type interface will work with the FreeBSD audio subsystem, simply create a driver that supplies a FreeBSD-style audio interface, or finally, create a driver that allows direct and specialized ioctl access to unusual card features not accommodated by the FreeBSD audio subsystem, but otherwise providing access via /dev/dsp et al. This will be the first device driver I write. Any advice, assistance, caveats, etc., will certainly be much appreciated. In particular, if anyone has a guide to device driver implementation, draft or polished form, complete or incomplete, it would surely be helpful to me. I understand some basic porting issues, e.g. bus_space_read_4 instead of readl(), copyin() instead of copy_from_user(), etc. The details will come into focus with determination and repeated exposure. I already have the card on the PCI bus, and am quite committed to BSD, so I will see this project to its successful conclusion (unless someone beats me to it (by all means, go ahead!:-)). -Daniel Pouzzner P.S. Also, if no one beats me to it, I will port G400-TV support for the realtime MJPEG codec, the TV/radio tuner, and video I/O and audio routing. The Linux development effort (http://marvel.sourceforge.net/) is just coming together and I won't be embarking on the project until they've got things basically working smoothly and I've got the RME card basically working smoothly. I do already have a G400-TV on my machine, currently not using the -TV part of course. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 0:53: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from altos.rsu.ru (altos.rsu.ru [195.208.252.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BCF037B85B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:52:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from os@rsu.ru) Received: from localhost (os@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by altos.rsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA45393 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 11:52:07 +0400 (MSD) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:52:06 +0400 (MSD) From: Oleg Sharoiko To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Bug in advansys driver Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1518726426-959068326=:86096" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --0-1518726426-959068326=:86096 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello! It seems that during porting to newbus architecture adv_attach was left unchanged and current version (I mean the current version of -STABLE sources, I didn't check -CURRENT) returns incorrect values (1 on success, 0 in all other cases). I've fixed this, the patch is in the attached file. I'm not sure that I put correct error codes for all cases so I think it would be good if someone looks through it. Anyway this code works (at least for me) and -STABLE sources don't. Hope this small work will be useful. -- Oleg Sharoiko. Computer Center of Rostov State University. --0-1518726426-959068326=:86096 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="advansys.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="advansys.diff" SW5kZXg6IGFkdmFuc3lzLmMNCj09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NClJD UyBmaWxlOiAvdXNyL2N2cy9GcmVlQlNEL3NyYy9zeXMvZGV2L2FkdmFuc3lz L2FkdmFuc3lzLmMsdg0KcmV0cmlldmluZyByZXZpc2lvbiAxLjE0LjIuMQ0K ZGlmZiAtdSAtcjEuMTQuMi4xIGFkdmFuc3lzLmMNCi0tLSBhZHZhbnN5cy5j CTIwMDAvMDQvMTQgMTM6MzI6NDcJMS4xNC4yLjENCisrKyBhZHZhbnN5cy5j CTIwMDAvMDUvMjMgMDc6MjE6MzQNCkBAIC0xMzAzLDcgKzEzMDMsNyBAQA0K IAkJCQlNX0RFVkJVRiwgTV9OT1dBSVQpOw0KIA0KIAlpZiAoYWR2LT5jY2Jf aW5mb3MgPT0gTlVMTCkNCi0JCWdvdG8gZXJyb3JfZXhpdDsNCisJCXJldHVy biAoRU5PTUVNKTsNCiANCiAJYWR2LT5pbml0X2xldmVsKys7DQogCQkNCkBA IC0xMzQ1LDcgKzEzNDUsNyBAQA0KIAkJCSAgICAgICAvKm1heHNlZ3N6Ki9C VVNfU1BBQ0VfTUFYU0laRV8zMkJJVCwNCiAJCQkgICAgICAgLypmbGFncyov QlVTX0RNQV9BTExPQ05PVywNCiAJCQkgICAgICAgJmFkdi0+YnVmZmVyX2Rt YXQpICE9IDApIHsNCi0JCWdvdG8gZXJyb3JfZXhpdDsNCisJCXJldHVybiAo RU5YSU8pOw0KIAl9DQogCWFkdi0+aW5pdF9sZXZlbCsrOw0KIA0KQEAgLTEz NTgsNyArMTM1OCw3IEBADQogCQkJICAgICAgIC8qbnNlZ21lbnRzKi8xLA0K IAkJCSAgICAgICAvKm1heHNlZ3N6Ki9CVVNfU1BBQ0VfTUFYU0laRV8zMkJJ VCwNCiAJCQkgICAgICAgLypmbGFncyovMCwgJmFkdi0+c2Vuc2VfZG1hdCkg IT0gMCkgew0KLQkJZ290byBlcnJvcl9leGl0Ow0KKwkJcmV0dXJuIChFTlhJ Tyk7DQogICAgICAgICB9DQogDQogCWFkdi0+aW5pdF9sZXZlbCsrOw0KQEAg LTEzNjYsNyArMTM2Niw3IEBADQogCS8qIEFsbG9jYXRpb24gZm9yIG91ciBz ZW5zZSBidWZmZXJzICovDQogCWlmIChidXNfZG1hbWVtX2FsbG9jKGFkdi0+ c2Vuc2VfZG1hdCwgKHZvaWQgKiopJmFkdi0+c2Vuc2VfYnVmZmVycywNCiAJ CQkgICAgIEJVU19ETUFfTk9XQUlULCAmYWR2LT5zZW5zZV9kbWFtYXApICE9 IDApIHsNCi0JCWdvdG8gZXJyb3JfZXhpdDsNCisJCXJldHVybiAoRU5PTUVN KTsNCiAJfQ0KIA0KIAlhZHYtPmluaXRfbGV2ZWwrKzsNCkBAIC0xMzg1LDcg KzEzODUsNyBAQA0KIAlpZiAoYWR2X3N0YXJ0X2NoaXAoYWR2KSAhPSAxKSB7 DQogCQlwcmludGYoImFkdiVkOiBVbmFibGUgdG8gc3RhcnQgb24gYm9hcmQg cHJvY2Vzc29yLiBBYm9ydGluZy5cbiIsDQogCQkgICAgICAgYWR2LT51bml0 KTsNCi0JCXJldHVybiAoMCk7DQorCQlyZXR1cm4gKEVOWElPKTsNCiAJfQ0K IA0KIAkvKg0KQEAgLTEzOTMsNyArMTM5Myw3IEBADQogCSAqLw0KIAlkZXZx ID0gY2FtX3NpbXFfYWxsb2MoYWR2LT5tYXhfb3BlbmluZ3MpOw0KIAlpZiAo ZGV2cSA9PSBOVUxMKQ0KLQkJcmV0dXJuICgwKTsNCisJCXJldHVybiAoRU5P TUVNKTsNCiANCiAJLyoNCiAJICogQ29uc3RydWN0IG91ciBTSU0gZW50cnku DQpAQCAtMTQwMSw3ICsxNDAxLDcgQEANCiAJYWR2LT5zaW0gPSBjYW1fc2lt X2FsbG9jKGFkdl9hY3Rpb24sIGFkdl9wb2xsLCAiYWR2IiwgYWR2LCBhZHYt PnVuaXQsDQogCQkJCSAxLCBhZHYtPm1heF9vcGVuaW5ncywgZGV2cSk7DQog CWlmIChhZHYtPnNpbSA9PSBOVUxMKQ0KLQkJcmV0dXJuICgwKTsNCisJCXJl dHVybiAoRU5PTUVNKTsNCiANCiAJLyoNCiAJICogUmVnaXN0ZXIgdGhlIGJ1 cy4NCkBAIC0xNDEwLDIxICsxNDEwLDE4IEBADQogCSAqLw0KIAlpZiAoeHB0 X2J1c19yZWdpc3RlcihhZHYtPnNpbSwgMCkgIT0gQ0FNX1NVQ0NFU1MpIHsN CiAJCWNhbV9zaW1fZnJlZShhZHYtPnNpbSwgLypmcmVlIGRldnEqL1RSVUUp Ow0KLQkJcmV0dXJuICgwKTsNCisJCXJldHVybiAoRU5YSU8pOw0KIAl9DQog DQogCWlmICh4cHRfY3JlYXRlX3BhdGgoJmFkdi0+cGF0aCwgLypwZXJpcGgq L05VTEwsIGNhbV9zaW1fcGF0aChhZHYtPnNpbSksDQotCQkJICAgIENBTV9U QVJHRVRfV0lMRENBUkQsIENBTV9MVU5fV0lMRENBUkQpDQotCSAgID09IENB TV9SRVFfQ01QKSB7DQotCQl4cHRfc2V0dXBfY2NiKCZjc2EuY2NiX2gsIGFk di0+cGF0aCwgLypwcmlvcml0eSovNSk7DQotCQljc2EuY2NiX2guZnVuY19j b2RlID0gWFBUX1NBU1lOQ19DQjsNCi0JCWNzYS5ldmVudF9lbmFibGUgPSBB Q19GT1VORF9ERVZJQ0V8QUNfTE9TVF9ERVZJQ0U7DQotCQljc2EuY2FsbGJh Y2sgPSBhZHZhc3luYzsNCi0JCWNzYS5jYWxsYmFja19hcmcgPSBhZHY7DQot CQl4cHRfYWN0aW9uKCh1bmlvbiBjY2IgKikmY3NhKTsNCi0JfQ0KLQlyZXR1 cm4gKDEpOw0KKwkJQ0FNX1RBUkdFVF9XSUxEQ0FSRCwgQ0FNX0xVTl9XSUxE Q0FSRCkgIT0gQ0FNX1JFUV9DTVApDQorCQlyZXR1cm4gKEVOWElPKTsNCiAN Ci1lcnJvcl9leGl0Og0KKwl4cHRfc2V0dXBfY2NiKCZjc2EuY2NiX2gsIGFk di0+cGF0aCwgLypwcmlvcml0eSovNSk7DQorCWNzYS5jY2JfaC5mdW5jX2Nv ZGUgPSBYUFRfU0FTWU5DX0NCOw0KKwljc2EuZXZlbnRfZW5hYmxlID0gQUNf Rk9VTkRfREVWSUNFfEFDX0xPU1RfREVWSUNFOw0KKwljc2EuY2FsbGJhY2sg PSBhZHZhc3luYzsNCisJY3NhLmNhbGxiYWNrX2FyZyA9IGFkdjsNCisJeHB0 X2FjdGlvbigodW5pb24gY2NiICopJmNzYSk7DQogCXJldHVybiAoMCk7DQog fQ0K --0-1518726426-959068326=:86096-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 1: 6:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 751EE37BC59 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 01:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p04-dn02kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.69]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id RAA04662; Tue, 23 May 2000 17:06:31 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <392A35C1.4EA75E52@newsguy.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:39:45 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Reiter Cc: "G.B.Naidu" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver requirement... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Reiter wrote: > > You are correct.. However, they were quite useless, imo. This tutorial > will go into detail regarding each step of the skeleton for ading syscalls > and device drivers so that hopefully anyone can quickly learn how to write > them. I was subtly suggesting you replace them... :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@another.bsdconspiracy.org "Sentience hurts." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 3:15:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wyvern.cc.kogakuin.ac.jp (wyvern.cc.kogakuin.ac.jp [133.80.184.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2577C37B70A for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 03:15:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nyan@wyvern.cc.kogakuin.ac.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wyvern.cc.kogakuin.ac.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/SAKURA) with ESMTP id TAA13571; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:14:39 +0900 (JST) To: os@rsu.ru Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug in advansys driver From: Takahashi Yoshihiro In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20000523191439B.nyan@wyvern.cc.kogakuin.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:14:39 +0900 (JST) X-Dispatcher: imput version 990905(IM130) Lines: 19 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, In article Oleg Sharoiko writes: > It seems that during porting to newbus architecture adv_attach was left > unchanged and current version (I mean the current version of -STABLE > sources, I didn't check -CURRENT) returns incorrect values (1 on success, 0 in > all other cases). I've fixed this, the patch is in the attached file. I'm not > sure that I put correct error codes for all cases so I think it would be good > if someone looks through it. Anyway this code works (at least for me) and > -STABLE sources don't. Hope this small work will be useful. I've committed to -current and RELENG_4 branch. Thank you. --- Takahashi Yoshihiro The Center for Information Science, Kogakuin Univ. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 4: 4:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23CC437B802 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:04:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com (imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.198]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04164; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:04:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA63244; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA13121; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:03:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <200005231103.EAA13121@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 04:03:58 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200005222032.NAA62259@apollo.backplane.com> References: <200005222032.NAA62259@apollo.backplane.com> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Matthew Dillon , Doug Barton Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 22, 1:32pm, Matthew Dillon wrote: } Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? } :>From the workstation: } :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop } :fxp0 1500 32102492 0 31653667 0 30900 0 30900 collisions is a pretty good clue that fxp0 is not in full-duplex mode. In full-duplex mode both NICs are allowed to transmit at the same time and the collision sensing circuitry is supposed to be turned off. I would expect to se Oerrs in this case, though. This card should be seing most of the collisions after 1 slot time, which it should sense as late collions, and I *think* it should count these as Oerrs. } :>From the fileserver: } :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop } :xl0 1500 32504173 28967 32900227 0 0 0 } : } : I did find it a little unusual that I was getting collisions on a } :crossover cable, but when I looked at the mail archives related to that } :problem I read that the intel cards are very aggressive packet pushers, } :and that this isn't all that unusual. The ratio of good packets to } :collisions seemed healthy enough to not warrant too much concern. } } 28967 input errors on xl0? Problem! These are probably the frames where fxp0 sensed a late collsion and aborted packet transmission, resulting in a CRC error. } But the real problem is that you are attempting to do 10BaseT } full-duplex. Full-duplex operation with 10BaseT is problematic } at best. Full duplex has good interoperability at 100BaseTX speeds, } but not at 10BaseT speeds. 10BaseT full-duplex should work ok as long as you configure everything manually. The only way it could work auto-magically would be if both cards used Nway, which you'll only see on 10/100 or 100BaseTX cards and if you've got two of those they'll negotiate 100 Mbit speeds :-) } Crossover cables work fine, usually, but I personally *never* use them. } I always throw a switch in between the machines and let it negotiate } the duplex mode with each machine independantly, twice as many chances to get things wrong, too. } plus it gives me nice } shiny LEDs that tell me what the switch thinks the port is doing as } a sanity check. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 4:10:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903D737B781; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.9.2/8.8.7) with UUCP id MAA62287; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:08:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] (eccles [194.32.164.2]) by seagoon.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20048; Tue, 23 May 2000 10:49:23 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:49:24 +0100 To: Oleg Sharoiko From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Bug in advansys driver Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:52 +0400 23/5/00, Oleg Sharoiko wrote: >Hello! > >It seems that during porting to newbus architecture adv_attach was left >unchanged and current version (I mean the current version of -STABLE >sources, I didn't check -CURRENT) returns incorrect values (1 on success, 0 in >all other cases). FWIW -CURRENT is the same, but it looks like none of the calls check the return value anyway. -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 4:11:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954D837B977 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:11:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com (imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.198]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA04236; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA63278; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:08:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA13140; Tue, 23 May 2000 04:08:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <200005231108.EAA13140@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 04:08:50 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20000522153349.Z28097@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000522025901.T28097@fw.wintelcom.net> <20000522153349.Z28097@fw.wintelcom.net> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Alfred Perlstein , David Scheidt Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! Cc: Shadi Fazelian , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 22, 3:33pm, Alfred Perlstein wrote: } Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! } * David Scheidt [000522 14:30] wrote: } > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 536$ ls -al | grep .snapshot } > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 537$ ls -al .snapshot } > total 60 } > drwxrwxrwx 2 root wheel 4096 May 22 15:01 . } > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 15:51 .. } > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 14:58 hourly.0 } > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:52 hourly.1 } > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:00 hourly.2 } > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 10:52 hourly.3 } > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.0 } > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.1 } > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 538$ } > } > doesn't count then? This is a directory NFS-mounted from a NetApp. The } > .snapshot directory is a lifesaver, and support cost cutter. } } If the netapp doesn't honor readdir requests properly then it's } breaking unix semantics. } } Netapp is broken, there's no reason to intentionally hide this } directory from readdir. It would be really annoying to have to exclude all of these every time you wanted to roll a tarball of a directory tree. Also, a lot of the time you probably won't want find or other recursive things to wander into these directories. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 5:47:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from altos.rsu.ru (altos.rsu.ru [195.208.252.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42E7537B7DC; Tue, 23 May 2000 05:46:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from os@rsu.ru) Received: from localhost (os@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by altos.rsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08233; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:11:09 +0400 (MSD) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:11:09 +0400 (MSD) From: Oleg Sharoiko To: Bob Bishop Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bug in advansys driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Bob Bishop wrote: BB> FWIW -CURRENT is the same, but it looks like none of the calls check the BB> return value anyway. Well. There was a message during the boot of kernel which notified that "adv0 device prove/attach returned 1" (or smt. like this). So I think the return code is checked somewhere and (what's more important) before the fix kernel seemed to hang at stage xpt_for_all_busses(xptconfigfunc, NULL); Just after displaying "Waiting 2 seconds for SCSI devices to settle" And I think that there should be no hangs even if attach failed so it's maybe good to check that code. (I was booting from atapi and adv was the only scsi adapter in the system) -- Oleg Sharoiko. Computer Center of Rostov State University. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 6: 0:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (T1-Hansenet.BIK-GmbH.de [192.76.134.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3933737B6CF for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cracauer@gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de) Received: (from cracauer@localhost) by gilgamesch.bik-gmbh.de (8.9.3/8.7.3) id PAA09975; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:00:24 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:00:24 +0200 From: Martin Cracauer To: gerald stoller Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hashing a symbol before looking into a hashed table Message-ID: <20000523150024.A9628@cons.org> References: <20000522183945.26600.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000522183945.26600.qmail@hotmail.com>; from gerald_stoller@hotmail.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 02:39:45PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In <20000522183945.26600.qmail@hotmail.com>, gerald stoller wrote: > I've been looking at the source code for FreeBSD 3.3 and i noticed that a > table-lookUp is called and given the name to look-up and also its hashed > value. Why is the hashed value supplied, why should the caller even be > aware of it (this is strictly internal to the table-lookUp)? Even if there > are differing hashing techniques for various tables, the caller shouldn't > have to know which one to use. When the caller stores the hashed values, the hash values can be reused for multiple calls. While reuse could also happen when the caller passed a pointer to a pointer, which would be filled by the caller if unset, this would lead to more pointer indirections and/or more complicated memory allocation. A typical example why the encapsulation often enforced since the "OO" programming b(d)oom doesn't lead very far when only slight performance losses are acceptable. Either you recompute or you have to store and follow lots of pointers, which in turn need to be remembered for resource bookkeeping. Martin -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Martin Cracauer http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 6:17:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from facmail.cc.gettysburg.edu (facmail.gettysburg.edu [138.234.4.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E7537BA64 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:17:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from s467338@gettysburg.edu) Received: from jupiter2 (jupiter2 [138.234.4.6]) by facmail.cc.gettysburg.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01377; Tue, 23 May 2000 09:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:16:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Reiter X-Sender: s467338@jupiter2 To: "Daniel C. Sobral" Cc: "G.B.Naidu" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Device driver requirement... In-Reply-To: <392A35C1.4EA75E52@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I guess I may have been brain dead or something to not pick up on the last question in your previous email. I will look at them quickly today and then work on it saturday (Im leaving to california for a few days starting tomorrow). Andrew On Tue, 23 May 2000, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: |Andrew Reiter wrote: |> |> You are correct.. However, they were quite useless, imo. This tutorial |> will go into detail regarding each step of the skeleton for ading syscalls |> and device drivers so that hopefully anyone can quickly learn how to write |> them. | |I was subtly suggesting you replace them... :-) | |-- |Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) |dcs@newsguy.com |dcs@freebsd.org |capo@another.bsdconspiracy.org | | "Sentience hurts." | | | --------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Reiter Computer Security Engineer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 6:31:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB8B37BA37; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:31:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rb@gidgate.gid.co.uk) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA88282; Tue, 23 May 2000 14:26:04 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20000523141612.00ad2100@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:26:02 +0100 To: Oleg Sharoiko From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Bug in advansys driver Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 16:11 23/05/00 +0400, Oleg Sharoiko wrote: >On Tue, 23 May 2000, Bob Bishop wrote: > >BB> FWIW -CURRENT is the same, but it looks like none of the calls check the >BB> return value anyway. >Well. There was a message during the boot of kernel which notified that >"adv0 device prove/attach returned 1" (or smt. like this). So I think the >return code is checked somewhere and (what's more important) before the fix >kernel seemed to hang at stage xpt_for_all_busses(xptconfigfunc, NULL); You are on -STABLE, right? On -CURRENT it's been working fine for me, no complaining messages... >ed0: address 00:20:18:80:b4:6d, type NE2000 (16 bit) >adw0: port 0x6600-0x66ff mem >0xe0000000-0 >xe00000ff irq 10 at device 12.0 on pci0 >adw0: SCSI ID 7, High & Low SE Term Enabled, LVD Term Enabled, Queue Depth 253 >fdc0: at port 0x3f0-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa0 ... because the return value apparently isn't checked; which is why I posted (and included -current) in the first place. -- Bob Bishop +44 118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 118 989 4254 (0800-1800 UK) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 6:51:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nts.mapisrael.com (nts.mapa.co.il [192.116.157.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C7537BAD4; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:51:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ak@freenet.co.uk) Received: from freenet.co.uk (ALEX [192.116.157.120]) by nts.mapisrael.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id LHGYQWPT; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:51:15 +0200 Message-ID: <392A9ABF.9839713C@freenet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:50:39 +0200 From: A G F Keahan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel Pouzzner Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new device drivers for RME soundcard and G400-TV References: <200005230409.AAA24720@mega.mega.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Daniel, First of all, I think you will get a lot more replies if you re-post your message to freebsd-multimedia (cc'd). Secondly, the author and maintainer of the new pcm driver in 4-stable and -current is Cameron Grant (cg@freebsd.org), and you should talk to him before starting anything serious. The sound driver in FreeBSD 3.4 (and earlier) is unmaintained and basically dead -- if your system is 3-stable or older, go -current, then backport your changes to 4-stable. I believe that newpcm was specifically designed to support advanced features of modern sound cards, and also to be easily extensible. The only functionality currently missing is MIDI, and you should talk to Seigo Tanimura about it (he has some patches to fix it). I also believe (and I'm sure that many people will agree with me) that we should try to stay clear of GPLd code unless absolutely unavoidable. FreeBSD's driver framework is sufficiently different from that of Linux that in practice it's not much of a problem. On the other hand, if porting the ALSA library would buy us support for a whole lot of new soundcards, it might be well worth it. Personally, I think that your time would be better spent improving the existing system rather than designing a new one. If you discover that newpcm is not powerful enough to accommodate some of the more advanced features of your card, then we should find a way to improve it. Good luck Alex Keahan Daniel Pouzzner wrote: > > I'm about to get cracking on a device driver for the RME Digi96/8 PAD. > > The card's full set of I/O channels is: S/PDIF I/O (2 channels in, 2 > out, 16-24 bits@32-96kHz), AES/EBU I/O (2ch in, 2 out, 16-24 > bits@32-96kHz), analog I/O (2ch in, 2 out, 16-24 bits@32-96kHz), and > ADAT I/O (8 channels in, 8 out, 16-24 bits@44.1 or 48kHz). > > The hardware supports on-board routing between these channels, > e.g. ADAT->S/PDIF or S/PDIF->ADAT. I will be supporting these > features. For those who are simply curious about features, see > http://www.rme-audio.com/english/digi96/digi96pa.htm > > My starting point (what I have in hand) is (1) a complete and > functioning driver (supporting most key functionalities of the card) > for Linux and the ALSA ("Advanced Linux Sound Architecture") > subsystem, and (2) complete internal documentation on the card, from > the manufacturer. > > Is FreeBSD's OSS-like audio subsystem powerful enough to provide > access to all the card's features (particularly, all its ports, word > sizes, and sample rates)? ac97.c goes only to 20 bits/sample, for > example, but the card is 24 bits throughout. > > I have to decide what strategy to pursue: do I write a new driver > based on an existing FreeBSD driver, using the Linux driver for hints, > or do I use a FreeBSD driver for hints, basing the new driver on the > Linux one (and thereby winding up with a GPL'd driver)? Or indeed do > I write a driver truly from the ground up? The only FreeBSD soundcard > driver I know of that includes analog and digital I/O support is the > SB Live! driver, which in my experience doesn't work particularly well > (in particular, capture didn't work at all when I tried it in April), > so my sense is that there exists no smoothly working FreeBSD driver > for a soundcard with anything remotely approaching the capabilities of > the RME products. > > Finally, I have to decide whether I will port the ALSA library (in > whole or in part - appealing because it would facilitate support for > the dozens of other soundcards ALSA supports and FreeBSD doesn't), > write a glue layer so that a driver that supplies an ALSA-type > interface will work with the FreeBSD audio subsystem, simply create a > driver that supplies a FreeBSD-style audio interface, or finally, > create a driver that allows direct and specialized ioctl access to > unusual card features not accommodated by the FreeBSD audio subsystem, > but otherwise providing access via /dev/dsp et al. > > This will be the first device driver I write. Any advice, assistance, > caveats, etc., will certainly be much appreciated. In particular, if > anyone has a guide to device driver implementation, draft or polished > form, complete or incomplete, it would surely be helpful to me. I > understand some basic porting issues, e.g. bus_space_read_4 instead of > readl(), copyin() instead of copy_from_user(), etc. The details will > come into focus with determination and repeated exposure. > > I already have the card on the PCI bus, and am quite committed to BSD, > so I will see this project to its successful conclusion (unless > someone beats me to it (by all means, go ahead!:-)). > > -Daniel Pouzzner > > P.S. Also, if no one beats me to it, I will port G400-TV support for > the realtime MJPEG codec, the TV/radio tuner, and video I/O and audio > routing. The Linux development effort > (http://marvel.sourceforge.net/) is just coming together and I won't > be embarking on the project until they've got things basically working > smoothly and I've got the RME card basically working smoothly. I do > already have a G400-TV on my machine, currently not using the -TV part > of course. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 7:21: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93BC037B869 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 07:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 12uFYG-000J7i-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:20:56 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15252 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:20:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:20:56 +0100 From: J McKitrick To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: newbus code Message-ID: <20000523152056.A15155@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is there a document anywhere that explains the newbus function calls? Technically, i'm supposed to be writing it ;-) But i am trying to trace some calls and it gets pretty crazy sometimes. I'm debugging the parallel port zip driver, and i'm not sure which functions are the entry points. And then the data structures get pretty convoluted at times, and definitions are scattered all over. I hate to say it, but it makes me appreciate M$ browse function under visual C++. Is there a similar way under freebsd to cross reference the kernel code? jm -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathon McKitrick -- jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org I am a bomb technician. If you see me running, try to keep up. ------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 8:46:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EFA37B823 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 08:46:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9C114B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.156.17.75]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03521; Tue, 23 May 2000 17:32:27 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A95AC2C; Tue, 23 May 2000 17:33:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01209; Tue, 23 May 2000 17:32:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:32:46 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: J McKitrick Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: newbus code Message-ID: <20000523173246.B999@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <20000523152056.A15155@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000523152056.A15155@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org on Tue, May 23, 2000 at 03:20:56PM +0100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake J McKitrick (jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org): > Is there a document anywhere that explains the newbus function calls? I've written a few and am writing some. Most don't have manual pages. A good start are the NetBSD manual pages, most stuff is the same. > times, and definitions are scattered all over. I hate to say it, but it > makes me appreciate M$ browse function under visual C++. BAH! ;) Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 8:53:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mega.mega.nu (mega.ne.mediaone.net [24.147.232.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FE537B69F; Tue, 23 May 2000 08:53:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from douzzer@mega.mega.nu) Received: (from douzzer@localhost) by mega.mega.nu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25710; Tue, 23 May 2000 11:52:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from douzzer@mega.mega.nu) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200005231552.LAA25710@mega.mega.nu> X-Authentication-Warning: mega.mega.nu: douzzer set sender to douzzer@mega.mega.nu using -f To: ak@freenet.co.uk Cc: cg@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new device drivers for RME soundcard and G400-TV From: Daniel Pouzzner Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I think you will get a lot more replies if you re-post >your message to freebsd-multimedia (cc'd). I've added myself to that list. >Secondly, the author and >maintainer of the new pcm driver in 4-stable and -current is Cameron >Grant (cg@freebsd.org) That's the subsystem I'm working with. -* uname -a FreeBSD mega 4.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE #10: Mon Apr 24 19:27:08 EDT 2000 douzzer@mega:/usr/src/sys/compile/MEGA i386 >I believe that newpcm was specifically designed to support advanced >features of modern sound cards, and also to be easily extensible. I think the best strategy is to document the procedure whereby an ALSA driver is morphed into a newpcm driver, starting with the RME driver as a test case and example. >we >should try to stay clear of GPLd code No doubt. >if >porting the ALSA library would buy us support for a whole lot of new >soundcards, it might be well worth it. I'm going to try to have it both ways, by semi-automating the process of transplanting ALSA card drivers into newpcm. >If you discover that >newpcm is not powerful enough to accommodate some of the more advanced >features of your card, then we should find a way to improve it. Fair enough. -Daniel >Daniel Pouzzner wrote: >> >> I'm about to get cracking on a device driver for the RME Digi96/8 PAD. >> >> The card's full set of I/O channels is: S/PDIF I/O (2 channels in, 2 >> out, 16-24 bits@32-96kHz), AES/EBU I/O (2ch in, 2 out, 16-24 >> bits@32-96kHz), analog I/O (2ch in, 2 out, 16-24 bits@32-96kHz), and >> ADAT I/O (8 channels in, 8 out, 16-24 bits@44.1 or 48kHz). >> >> The hardware supports on-board routing between these channels, >> e.g. ADAT->S/PDIF or S/PDIF->ADAT. I will be supporting these >> features. For those who are simply curious about features, see >> http://www.rme-audio.com/english/digi96/digi96pa.htm >> >> My starting point (what I have in hand) is (1) a complete and >> functioning driver (supporting most key functionalities of the card) >> for Linux and the ALSA ("Advanced Linux Sound Architecture") >> subsystem, and (2) complete internal documentation on the card, from >> the manufacturer. >> >> Is FreeBSD's OSS-like audio subsystem powerful enough to provide >> access to all the card's features (particularly, all its ports, word >> sizes, and sample rates)? ac97.c goes only to 20 bits/sample, for >> example, but the card is 24 bits throughout. >> >> I have to decide what strategy to pursue: do I write a new driver >> based on an existing FreeBSD driver, using the Linux driver for hints, >> or do I use a FreeBSD driver for hints, basing the new driver on the >> Linux one (and thereby winding up with a GPL'd driver)? Or indeed do >> I write a driver truly from the ground up? The only FreeBSD soundcard >> driver I know of that includes analog and digital I/O support is the >> SB Live! driver, which in my experience doesn't work particularly well >> (in particular, capture didn't work at all when I tried it in April), >> so my sense is that there exists no smoothly working FreeBSD driver >> for a soundcard with anything remotely approaching the capabilities of >> the RME products. >> >> Finally, I have to decide whether I will port the ALSA library (in >> whole or in part - appealing because it would facilitate support for >> the dozens of other soundcards ALSA supports and FreeBSD doesn't), >> write a glue layer so that a driver that supplies an ALSA-type >> interface will work with the FreeBSD audio subsystem, simply create a >> driver that supplies a FreeBSD-style audio interface, or finally, >> create a driver that allows direct and specialized ioctl access to >> unusual card features not accommodated by the FreeBSD audio subsystem, >> but otherwise providing access via /dev/dsp et al. >> >> This will be the first device driver I write. Any advice, assistance, >> caveats, etc., will certainly be much appreciated. In particular, if >> anyone has a guide to device driver implementation, draft or polished >> form, complete or incomplete, it would surely be helpful to me. I >> understand some basic porting issues, e.g. bus_space_read_4 instead of >> readl(), copyin() instead of copy_from_user(), etc. The details will >> come into focus with determination and repeated exposure. >> >> I already have the card on the PCI bus, and am quite committed to BSD, >> so I will see this project to its successful conclusion (unless >> someone beats me to it (by all means, go ahead!:-)). >> >> -Daniel Pouzzner >> >> P.S. Also, if no one beats me to it, I will port G400-TV support for >> the realtime MJPEG codec, the TV/radio tuner, and video I/O and audio >> routing. The Linux development effort >> (http://marvel.sourceforge.net/) is just coming together and I won't >> be embarking on the project until they've got things basically working >> smoothly and I've got the RME card basically working smoothly. I do >> already have a G400-TV on my machine, currently not using the -TV part >> of course. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 9: 8:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9808237B7DC; Tue, 23 May 2000 09:08:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21365; Tue, 23 May 2000 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Nik Clayton Cc: doc@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Teaching sysinstall about the documentation packages In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 May 2000 01:11:48 BST." <20000523011148.A27853@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:10:26 -0700 Message-ID: <21362.959098226@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So, the time has come to think about ripping out the doc distro from > "make release", and to teach sysinstall about these packages instead. Actually, if the doc distro becomes a set of packages then sysinstall doesn't need to know about them as a special case at all (which is good, every package dependency sysinstall gets is another millstone around my neck). They can just show up in the packages menu and people can select docs, if they wish, while they're selecting their favorite shells or editors. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 10:46: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from www.nation-net.com (www.nation-net.com [194.200.209.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA4437B7F4 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 10:45:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from paul@walshsimmons.co.uk) Received: from cesar.nationnet.com (194.200.209.123) by www.nation-net.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 23 May 2000 18:48:06 +0100 From: "Paul Walsh" To: Cc: Subject: MAXMEM on freeBSD3.4-RELEASE Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:46:04 +0100 Message-ID: <003701bfc4de$c48b23a0$7bd1c8c2@nationnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Only seeing 64M on a Dell P550 with 384M of ram Have tried: boot -MAXMEM=393216 from loader - any suggestions for a temp fix? Could I use kernel_options in /boot/defaults/loader.conf - if so what syntax? I have RT'd every FM by the way ;-) I intend to rebuild kernel first chance I get ... Regards, Paul Walsh WALSH SIMMONS The Old Bank, 247 Chapel St, Manchester, UK T:01618399337 F:01618399336 ISDN:01618346884 www.walshsimmons.co.uk Paul mobile: 07714 523312 Sweet dreams at http://www.laterooms.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 10:50:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from internal.mail.demon.net (internal.mail.demon.net [193.195.224.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733A837B5D9 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 10:50:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fanf@demon.net) Received: from fanf.eng.demon.net (fanf.eng.demon.net [195.11.55.89]) by internal.mail.demon.net with ESMTP id SAA15073; Tue, 23 May 2000 18:50:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from fanf by fanf.eng.demon.net with local (Exim 3.13 #1) id 12uIoh-000OIe-00; Tue, 23 May 2000 18:50:07 +0100 To: Doug@gorean.org From: Tony Finch Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? In-Reply-To: References: <200005221724.KAA61109@apollo.backplane.com> Message-Id: Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:50:07 +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doug Barton wrote: > >Hrrrmm... I just took a look at the settings for each card. I did not >specify full duplex in the fxp0 ifconfig line, since autoselect has >always worked before. Autonegotiation is prone to problems. It only really works if both ends have the same setting (i.e. both locked down or neither locked down); if the settings are mismatched then the speed will be selected correctly but the autonegotiating card will choose half-duplex which is almost always what you don't want. It'll partially work but you'll see exactly the sort of problems you reported. Tony. -- f.a.n.finch fanf@demon.net dot@dotat.at 431 open wider for the magic cider To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 11: 2:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arjun.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [206.20.52.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661BB37B8C9 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 11:02:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@niksun.com) Received: from falcon.niksun.com (falcon.niksun.com [10.0.0.167]) by arjun.niksun.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA58262 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 14:02:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from joy@falcon.niksun.com) Message-ID: <392AC7BF.C458DD75@falcon.niksun.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:02:39 -0400 From: Joy Ganguly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers Subject: disk buffer allocation?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, i am working on a project to do a zero copy tranfer from a netwrok buffer to a file. i need to know about buffer allocation in freeBSD. ive read the source but there are a few queries: i) what is meant by the B_MALLOC flag?? it seems if this flag is set the buffers memory is malloced and b_data point to the malloced area. but then where does b_kvabase point to ?? The buffers memory is allocated in allocbuf() but its kva is allocated in getnewbuf(). ii) what does the B_LOCKED and B_BUSY flags mean?? iii) Is setting the B_INVAL flag enough to invalidate the buffer?? thanx in advance joy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 12: 0:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9BA337B897 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:00:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA47415; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:00:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:00:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt051n0b.san.rr.com To: Tony Finch Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Tony Finch wrote: > Doug Barton wrote: > > > >Hrrrmm... I just took a look at the settings for each card. I did not > >specify full duplex in the fxp0 ifconfig line, since autoselect has > >always worked before. > > Autonegotiation is prone to problems. It only really works if both > ends have the same setting Yes, that's definitely been my experience in the past, so I was pleasantly surprised when this started working properly. I did force everything to full duplex last night, and still got the occasional nfs stall, although I have a new theory to examine. Meanwhile, I did some NIC shopping on line last night, and am I correct in thinking that Intel has dropped the word "Etherexpress" from their name for our beloved fxp card? I saw lots of ads for "Intel Pro 100+" with the 82559 chip, but they didn't say etherexpress. My search of the mail logs certainly indicates that they're the same, but I want to be sure before I plop down the cash. Thanks, Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 12:40:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wrs.com (unknown-1-11.wrs.com [147.11.1.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C36E37B567 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:40:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from davidhol@windriver.com) Received: from papermill.wrs.com (papermill [147.11.48.34]) by mail.wrs.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA01144; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from papermill (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by papermill.wrs.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA10982; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200005231940.MAA10982@papermill.wrs.com> To: Don Lewis Cc: Shadi Fazelian , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Holloway Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 May 2000 04:08:50 PDT." <200005231108.EAA13140@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:40:10 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Answer straight from the manual: Actually, the .snapshot directory in the mount point is "real" to make the pwd command work, whereas the .snapshot directories in all other directories are "magic"; that is, can be accessed when they are referenced by name but do not show up in a directory listing. . . . If .snapshot were to show up in every directory, it would cause many commands to work improperly. For instance, all recursive commands for removing files would fail because everything below .snapshot is read-only. Recursive copies would copy everything in the snapshots as well as files in the active file system, and a find command would generate a list much longer than expected. In message <200005231108.EAA13140@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com>, Don Lewis writes: >On May 22, 3:33pm, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >} Subject: Re: please hellllllllllllp me! >} * David Scheidt [000522 14:30] wrote: > >} > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 536$ ls -al | grep .snapshot >} > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 537$ ls -al .snapshot >} > total 60 >} > drwxrwxrwx 2 root wheel 4096 May 22 15:01 . >} > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 15:51 .. >} > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 14:58 hourly.0 >} > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:52 hourly.1 >} > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 13:00 hourly.2 >} > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 22 10:52 hourly.3 >} > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.0 >} > drwxr-xr-x 15 dscheidt dialin 8192 May 19 16:34 nightly.1 >} > dscheidt@shell-2 ~ 538$ >} > >} > doesn't count then? This is a directory NFS-mounted from a NetApp. The >} > .snapshot directory is a lifesaver, and support cost cutter. >} >} If the netapp doesn't honor readdir requests properly then it's >} breaking unix semantics. >} >} Netapp is broken, there's no reason to intentionally hide this >} directory from readdir. > >It would be really annoying to have to exclude all of these every >time you wanted to roll a tarball of a directory tree. Also, a lot >of the time you probably won't want find or other recursive things >to wander into these directories. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 12:56:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A31837B5A8 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from slave (doug@slave [10.0.0.1]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA47731; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:56:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Barton X-Sender: doug@dt051n0b.san.rr.com To: Don Lewis Cc: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? In-Reply-To: <200005231103.EAA13121@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Don Lewis wrote: > On May 22, 1:32pm, Matthew Dillon wrote: > } Subject: Re: NFS server problems on 3.4-S, any interest? > } :>From the workstation: > } :Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop > } :fxp0 1500 32102492 0 31653667 0 30900 0 > > 30900 collisions is a pretty good clue that fxp0 is not in full-duplex > mode. In full-duplex mode both NICs are allowed to transmit at the > same time and the collision sensing circuitry is supposed to be turned > off. I've already indicated that the fxp card was not in full duplex, and I've since corrected that. Now I don't see any errors, drops or collisions on the workstation, but on the server I see: Name Mtu Network Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll Drop xl0 1500 72374833 29770 73159292 0 171 0 I'm perfectly willing to chalk this up to the 3com card being a piece of crap, but isn't it a little odd? > } Crossover cables work fine, usually, but I personally *never* use them. > } I always throw a switch in between the machines and let it negotiate > } the duplex mode with each machine independantly, > > twice as many chances to get things wrong, too. Another reason why I decided to stick with the x-over cable. Now that I'm looking at adding another machine to my network though, I'm thinking of getting a switch. I found a pretty good deal on one from Allied Telesyn, is that a reputable company? The link is: http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/1,10231,0-11726-311-780298-0,00.html?tag=st.sh.11726-301-0.lst.ml_780298 8 ports is probably more than I need, although this particular item isn't significantly more expensive than the 4 port models with similar features, and I'd rather not go through this all again N time periods from now. Another alternative I'm considering is just getting more ethernet cards and making the server/firewall machine more of a "router," since I have a lot of free slots on that motherboard. That may be a little grandiose though... A co-worker got an "ETHERFAST CABLE/DSL ROUTER WITH 4 10/100 SWITCHED PORTS" from linksys, http://www.us.buy.com/comp/product.asp?Sku=10235958 which looks like a lot of fun, but it only has 4 ports, and I'm afraid that if I ever get a laptop I'm going to be out of luck, since I don't think that one is stackable. Also, does anyone have a good reference to what features to look for in a switch? I try to learn a little networking on the side when time allows, so I'm familiar with basic concepts, but as you may have noticed I am a little over my head here. :) I do appreciate the help though, and I feel like I'm definitely learning something. Doug -- "Live free or die" - State motto of my ancestral homeland, New Hampshire Do YOU Yahoo!? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 13:42:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arjun.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [206.20.52.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5493B37B967 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 13:42:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@niksun.com) Received: from falcon.niksun.com (falcon.niksun.com [10.0.0.167]) by arjun.niksun.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA60524 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 16:42:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from joy@falcon.niksun.com) Message-ID: <392AED2F.582FC379@falcon.niksun.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:42:23 -0400 From: Joy Ganguly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers Subject: blocks and fragments??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, do disk addresses in struct dinode ( di_db[] array) address block addresses or fragment addresses?? the comment in dinode.h says they are block addresses. but fs.h says addresses are capable of addressing fragments. will somebody please explain this?? thanx all joy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 13:49:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1FB437B9DD for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 13:49:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12uLbz-000986-0K for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:49:11 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12uLba-000Mg8-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:48:46 +0100 Content-Length: 472 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:48:46 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: xxx_stop and ifq->if_snd in NIC drivers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all In a wireless NIC driver should one drain the output queue when the interface is stopped? I've been perusing /sys/dev/awi.c and the output queue is drained in that driver. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 15:41:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marvin.kazrak.com (adsl-209-233-16-235.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [209.233.16.235]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C364937B733 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:41:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad@kazrak.com) Received: by marvin.kazrak.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A47BF2CC; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:41:27 -0700 From: Brad Jones To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Adding extra keys to kernel and X (MS keyboards) Message-ID: <20000523154127.A8130@marvin.kazrak.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I've added kernel support for the extra keys on my MS Internet Keyboard Pro (all 19 of them) to atkbd.c, using keycodes 0x6d-0x7f. (I can submit the patches to /usr/src/sys/dev/kbd/atkbd.c, /usr/src/sys/dev/kbd/kbdtables.h, and /usr/share/syscons/keymaps/us.iso.kbd if people are interested, but I'd like to make sure the keycodes in question are reasonably standard first.) Now, I need to add support to X for them...and it doesn't seem to work. I've added some keycodes for them to the files in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/keycodes/xfree86, and xkbcomp :0 shows them present, but xev shows no events for them, even if I bind some with xmodmap. Current config is 5.0-CURRENT, running XFree 3.3.6 installed from package. Any pointers or suggestions? BJ -- Brad Jones -- brad@kazrak.com Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 17: 3:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5944B37B9CB for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 17:03:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (ip41.salt-lake-city9.ut.pub-ip.psi.net [38.31.167.41]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01328; Tue, 23 May 2000 18:01:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <392B1C6C.90D1FFEE@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:03:56 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Langer Cc: J McKitrick , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: newbus code References: <20000523152056.A15155@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20000523173246.B999@cichlids.cichlids.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alexander Langer wrote: > > Thus spake J McKitrick (jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org): > > > Is there a document anywhere that explains the newbus function calls? > > I've written a few and am writing some. > > Most don't have manual pages. > > A good start are the NetBSD manual pages, most stuff is the same. > > > times, and definitions are scattered all over. I hate to say it, but it > > makes me appreciate M$ browse function under visual C++. > > BAH! ;) etags. duh. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 18:22:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7253B37BAC5 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 18:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zzhang@cs.binghamton.edu) Received: from sol.cs.binghamton.edu (sol.cs.binghamton.edu [128.226.123.100]) by bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16068; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:21:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Zhihui Zhang To: Joy Ganguly Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: blocks and fragments??? In-Reply-To: <392AED2F.582FC379@falcon.niksun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If a fragment address refers to a fragment at a block boundary, then it is also called a block address. -Zhihui > hi all, > > do disk addresses in struct dinode ( di_db[] array) address block > addresses or fragment addresses?? the comment in dinode.h says they are > block addresses. but fs.h says addresses are capable of addressing > fragments. will somebody please explain this?? > > thanx all > > joy > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 18:48: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sin.core-sdi.com (sin.core-sdi.com [200.49.71.179]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8334837BB34; Tue, 23 May 2000 18:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alejo@core-sdi.com) Received: from amadeus.servers.core-sdi.com (amadeus.servers.core-sdi.com [192.168.13.3]) by sin.core-sdi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F7F1E01; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:00:18 -0300 (ART) Received: from core-sdi.com (mona.corelabs.core-sdi.com [192.168.66.201]) by amadeus.servers.core-sdi.com id AAA23514; Wed, 24 May 2000 00:33:14 -0300 Message-ID: <392B3543.B8AA689A@core-sdi.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:49:55 -0300 From: Alejo Sanchez X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; OpenBSD 2.7 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, tech-security@netbsd.org, tech-misc@netbsd.org, debian-security@lists.debian.org, debian-testing@lists.debian.org Subject: TESTERS NEEDED: msyslog pre-release Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, We have a pre-release of the new modular syslog system is available for download. It has been tested under OpenBSD 2.6 and 2.7, and RedHat 6.1, but we'd like to hear from you. It's the predecessor of the secure syslog. Here's a brief list of features: * Input and output was heavily modularized, and writing new modules is very easy * New authentication + integrity PEO module (as in previous ssyslog) * New output to mysql module And of course, its license is BSD :) Still, there is lot of space for improve. That's we we ask you to take some time and test it, send your suggestions, comments, patches or anything else you think important. For this matter, we have set up 2 mailing lists: msyslog-dev, for technical discussions and msyslog-usr, for general usage. To subscribe to them you have to send a mail to majordomo@core-sdi.com, containing in its body: subscribe msyslog-usr and/or subscribe msyslog-dev Cheers, Alejo -- Alejo Sanchez - Developer alejo@core-sdi.com Core SDI S.A. http://www.core-sdi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 18:56:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D03F37BB72 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 18:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA24734 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:56:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA07049 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:56:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200005240156.UAA07049@noel.cs.rice.edu> Subject: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:56:18 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I apologize beforehand if this topic has already been discussed at length here or elsewhere. More and more commerical sites are providing software packages that contain binaries for Linux. While FreeBSD does provide Linux emulation, this is often flaky and breaks down more often than not for commercial software. On the other hand, the FreeBSD kernel is superior than that of Linux. Since FreeBSD and Linux have so much in common wrt to the user interface to the kernel, wouldn't it be so much better if both had the SAME interface such that the Linux kernel could just be replaced by the FreeBSD kernel. That way, one would be able to take advantage of both the increasing development of software for Linux, as well as the strengths of the FreeBSD kernel. It would give FreeBSD much greater visibility. Can someone comment on how difficult achieving the above would be ? - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:22:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arjun.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [206.20.52.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7355037BB4E for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:22:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ath@niksun.com) Received: from stiegl.niksun.com (stiegl.niksun.com [10.0.0.44]) by arjun.niksun.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA64819 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:22:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ath@stiegl.niksun.com) Received: from stiegl.niksun.com (localhost.niksun.com [127.0.0.1]) by stiegl.niksun.com (8.9.2/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA39762 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:21:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ath@stiegl.niksun.com) Message-Id: <200005240221.WAA39762@stiegl.niksun.com> From: Andrew Heybey To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Receive-only FDDI Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:21:59 -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am trying to monitor (eg use bpf & tcpdump to see packets) a FDDI ring with a Digital DEFPA FDDI NIC (and the fpa driver) via a fiber tap. Therefore the interface only gets to receive, not transmit. This doesn't work, I assume because the firmware on the DEFPA wants/needs to participate in the exchange of SMT frames on the ring (I am not familiar with FDDI detail so I do not know exactly what is going on). Under certain conditions, the DEFPA will receive frames for a short period of time before declaring that the link is unavailable. Specifically, if I break the ring (with the monitoring interface still plugged into the tap) then reconnect it, then I get the following sequence of log messages: May 17 14:16:39 demo4 /kernel: fpa1: Link Available May 17 14:16:39 demo4 /kernel: fpa1: Unsolicited Event: Link: Ring Beacon Initi ated May 17 14:16:41 demo4 /kernel: fpa1: Link Unavailable May 17 14:16:53 demo4 /kernel: fpa1: Unsolicited Event: Link: Trace Initiated May 17 14:17:08 demo4 /kernel: fpa1: Halted: halt code = 5 (PC Trace Path Test) May 17 14:17:09 demo4 /kernel: fpa1: Link Unavailable tcpdump gets packets from the "Link Available" through about 10 seconds before "Halted". I am hoping that the DEFPA can be told to "don't worry be happy" and ignore the lack of participation in the ring. Has anyone done anything like this? Does anyone know where to get a programming manual for the DEFPA? thanks, andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:25: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.glue.umd.edu (po4.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01CB137BE14 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:25:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@glue.umd.edu) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (root@z.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.71]) by po4.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20513; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA00895; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00891; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:24:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: z.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:24:55 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240156.UAA07049@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > Hi, > I apologize beforehand if this topic has already been discussed at > length here or elsewhere. > > More and more commerical sites are providing software packages that contain > binaries for Linux. While FreeBSD does provide Linux emulation, this is often > flaky and breaks down more often than not for commercial software. On the other > hand, the FreeBSD kernel is superior than that of Linux. > > Since FreeBSD and Linux have so much in common wrt to the user interface > to the kernel, wouldn't it be so much better if both had the SAME interface > such that the Linux kernel could just be replaced by the FreeBSD kernel. > That way, one would be able to take advantage of both the increasing > development of software for Linux, as well as the strengths of the FreeBSD > kernel. It would give FreeBSD much greater visibility. > > Can someone comment on how difficult achieving the above would be ? That sounds a lot like the DaemonLinux project: http://synack.net/daemonlinux/ Except it appears to have died stillborn. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:28:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us [216.186.55.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A0537B96B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Received: from localhost (protozoa@localhost) by locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA76364; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:27:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:27:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Feldman To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240156.UAA07049@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is definately a matter of opinion. First of all, FreeBSD's kernel can use both the Linux and FreeBSD interfaces at once. Although it might be possible to remove the FreeBSD interfaces, then all you have are the Linux ones - it sounds like a loss in functionality to me. Second, the Linux emulator is actually extremely good - even very complex threaded programs work perfectly. Problems do exist, but these are mostly in the /dev tree and drivers, not in the call interface. Sound, video framebuffers, and SVGAlib all work, but only barely. Thus I think the only advantage would be that FreeBSD userspace apps could use glibc, which is nice, but would break the copyrights on both trees :). If you're really interested in this kind of OS hybridism, why not use the GNU/FreeBSD system put out by Debian a while back? -- Dan Feldman Hacker, webmaster and computer connoisseur Out of sight, out of mind, out of hand. On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > Hi, > I apologize beforehand if this topic has already been discussed at > length here or elsewhere. > > More and more commerical sites are providing software packages that contain > binaries for Linux. While FreeBSD does provide Linux emulation, this is often > flaky and breaks down more often than not for commercial software. On the other > hand, the FreeBSD kernel is superior than that of Linux. > > Since FreeBSD and Linux have so much in common wrt to the user interface > to the kernel, wouldn't it be so much better if both had the SAME interface > such that the Linux kernel could just be replaced by the FreeBSD kernel. > That way, one would be able to take advantage of both the increasing > development of software for Linux, as well as the strengths of the FreeBSD > kernel. It would give FreeBSD much greater visibility. > > Can someone comment on how difficult achieving the above would be ? > > > > - Mohit > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5Kz4Zm5zE2gDgwPgRAkSaAJ9UuBDhs/SB5sN3/ItWYNqUSakA9gCgk2Pq 6CTjl972u8UOej+gFqA0m3c= =KY/T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:30:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA0137B96B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:30:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA29521; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:30:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA07954; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:30:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200005240230.VAA07954@noel.cs.rice.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel To: howardjp@glue.umd.edu (James Howard) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:30:06 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "James Howard" at May 23, 2000 10:24:55 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > That sounds a lot like the DaemonLinux project: > > http://synack.net/daemonlinux/ > > Except it appears to have died stillborn. > And not without reason. Their proposal aimed to replace FSF utilities with BSD equivalents - I don't think they are considering the kernel as a utility. I don't really any benefit from this. The binaries being distributed for Linux make use of Linux utilities (whether or not they are from FSF) and it makes little sense to replace them. Replacing the kernel though - that's another matter. - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:41: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DEFA37B6AD for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:41:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA01014; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:41:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA08232; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:41:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200005240241.VAA08232@noel.cs.rice.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel To: protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (Dan Feldman) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:41:01 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Dan Feldman" at May 23, 2000 07:27:30 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > First of all, FreeBSD's kernel can use both the Linux and FreeBSD > interfaces at once. Although it might be possible to remove the FreeBSD > interfaces, then all you have are the Linux ones - it sounds like a loss > in functionality to me. Second, the Linux emulator is actually extremely > good - even very complex threaded programs work perfectly. Problems do > exist, but these are mostly in the /dev tree and drivers, not in the call > interface. Sound, video framebuffers, and SVGAlib all work, but only > barely. Thus I think the only advantage would be that FreeBSD userspace > apps could use glibc, which is nice, but would break the copyrights on > both trees :). > Also, package installs are rather troublesome (unless you install from FreeBSD ports). By default any libraries tend to be installed in /usr/lib whereas they should go in /compat/linux/usr/lib and so on. Its hard to get Linux binary packages from the Internet to install easily on FreeBSD. > If you're really interested in this kind of OS hybridism, why not use the > GNU/FreeBSD system put out by Debian a while back? > Yes, that'll be perfect for me (and for so many other users wanting to use FreeBSD on their desktop). I looked at Debian's webpages - couldn't find the GNU/FreeBSD system. However, I'll take a closer look. Thanks, - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:45:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE5337BB3F; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA15682; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:45:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:45:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240156.UAA07049@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > More and more commerical sites are providing software packages that > contain binaries for Linux. While FreeBSD does provide Linux > emulation, this is often flaky and breaks down more often than not for > commercial software. On the other hand, the FreeBSD kernel is superior > than that of Linux. We already have a pretty complete implementation of the Linux kernel ABI - most of the problems with running Linux binaries on FreeBSD comes from userland stuff: missing libraries, etc. It's not "Linux emulation" - see http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/x18949.html I'm not sure what you're really looking for beyond what already exists. Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:51:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEDE37BB57; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:51:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA02546; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:51:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA08495; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:51:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200005240251.VAA08495@noel.cs.rice.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel To: kris@freebsd.org (Kris Kennaway) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:51:11 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Kris Kennaway" at May 23, 2000 07:45:07 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > We already have a pretty complete implementation of the Linux kernel ABI - > most of the problems with running Linux binaries on FreeBSD comes from > userland stuff: missing libraries, etc. It's not "Linux emulation" - see > http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/x18949.html > Yes, which is why I'd rather use GNU utilities running on FreeBSD than spend hours figuring out how to make a Linux binary work. As someone pointed out, Debian is making some effort in this direction. I'll check that out. - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 19:55:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us [216.186.55.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53ABA37BB5B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:55:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Received: from localhost (protozoa@localhost) by locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA76459; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Feldman To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240241.VAA08232@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Here's a Slashdot article about Debian/FreeBSD. It has links and a LOT of angry comments :). http://slashdot.org/bsd/99/11/23/1939210.shtml -- Dan Feldman Hacker, webmaster and computer connoisseur Out of sight, out of mind, out of hand. On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > > > > > First of all, FreeBSD's kernel can use both the Linux and FreeBSD > > interfaces at once. Although it might be possible to remove the FreeBSD > > interfaces, then all you have are the Linux ones - it sounds like a loss > > in functionality to me. Second, the Linux emulator is actually extremely > > good - even very complex threaded programs work perfectly. Problems do > > exist, but these are mostly in the /dev tree and drivers, not in the call > > interface. Sound, video framebuffers, and SVGAlib all work, but only > > barely. Thus I think the only advantage would be that FreeBSD userspace > > apps could use glibc, which is nice, but would break the copyrights on > > both trees :). > > > > Also, package installs are rather troublesome (unless you install from > FreeBSD ports). By default any libraries tend to be installed in /usr/lib > whereas they should go in /compat/linux/usr/lib and so on. Its hard to > get Linux binary packages from the Internet to install easily on FreeBSD. > > > > If you're really interested in this kind of OS hybridism, why not use the > > GNU/FreeBSD system put out by Debian a while back? > > > > Yes, that'll be perfect for me (and for so many other users wanting to use > FreeBSD on their desktop). I looked at Debian's webpages - couldn't find > the GNU/FreeBSD system. However, I'll take a closer look. Thanks, > > > > - Mohit > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5K0SVm5zE2gDgwPgRAk9OAJ494UtuxXA8NepSxOWkaMS44OuGtACgnjoS wXNofBDy7nRLe9I0Gk4uh3U= =brOM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:10:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.millennium20.com (smtp.thecyberguys.net [209.79.190.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCDFB37BA19 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glennpj@bayouhome.net) Received: from gforce.johnson.home (1Cust181.tnt2.covington.la.da.uu.net [63.31.31.181]) by smtp.millennium20.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id e4O296327023; Tue, 23 May 2000 19:09:06 -0700 Received: (from glenn@localhost) by gforce.johnson.home (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01979; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:10:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from glenn) From: Glenn Johnson Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:09:36 -0500 To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel Message-ID: <20000523220936.A1892@gforce.johnson.home> References: <200005240156.UAA07049@noel.cs.rice.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005240156.UAA07049@noel.cs.rice.edu>; from aron@cs.rice.edu on Tue, May 23, 2000 at 08:56:18PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, May 23, 2000 at 08:56:18PM -0500, Mohit Aron wrote: > Hi, I apologize beforehand if this topic has already been discussed at > length here or elsewhere. > > More and more commerical sites are providing software packages > that contain binaries for Linux. While FreeBSD does provide Linux > emulation, this is often flaky and breaks down more often than not for > commercial software. I do not agree with this last statement. I have had success with every Linux program I have thrown at FreeBSD. Of course I have not tried them all but my experience has been good. > On the other hand, the FreeBSD kernel is superior than that of Linux. Yes, and FreeBSD is also superior to every Linux distribution I have seen. Although SuSE is pretty good. > Since FreeBSD and Linux have so much in common wrt to the user > interface to the kernel, wouldn't it be so much better if both had the > SAME interface such that the Linux kernel could just be replaced by > the FreeBSD kernel. That way, one would be able to take advantage of > both the increasing development of software for Linux, as well as the > strengths of the FreeBSD kernel. It would give FreeBSD much greater > visibility. > > Can someone comment on how difficult achieving the above would be ? I think you need to keep in mind that FreeBSD is more than just the kernel, in contrast to Linux. The tight integration and control of all of the userspace tools makes system management much easier IMHO with FreeBSD than any Linux distribution I have used. This is especially true when you have a fleet of machines to keep up to date. I think you are right though that visibility need to be increased to attract commercial developers but I think the only way to do that is to steadily grow the user base. -- Glenn Johnson glennpj@bayouhome.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:14: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7830F37BA19; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA18601; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:14:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240251.VAA08495@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > Yes, which is why I'd rather use GNU utilities running on FreeBSD than spend > hours figuring out how to make a Linux binary work. As someone pointed out, > Debian is making some effort in this direction. I'll check that out. Oh I see, you're looking for a replacement FreeBSD userland, not a retargetted FreeBSD kernel. It's been a while since I've done it, but if you just install e.g. a Debian snapshot and chroot to it then just about everything should work. Some of the "system administration" syscalls may not work (have not been implemented), but once someone identifies what they are they could be in theory be implemented without too much trouble. This is different to the Debian/FreeBSD effort, which was aiming to get source-code compilation of Linux userland under FreeBSD and is therefore harder (I suspect that project has kind of died). Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:16: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from prism.flugsvamp.com (cb58709-a.mdsn1.wi.home.com [24.17.241.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9990337BB69 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:15:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@flugsvamp.com) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by prism.flugsvamp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01030; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:00 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jlemon) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Lemon Message-Id: <200005240320.WAA01030@prism.flugsvamp.com> To: aron@cs.rice.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel X-Newsgroups: local.mail.freebsd-hackers In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Cc: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article you write: > >> >> We already have a pretty complete implementation of the Linux kernel ABI - >> most of the problems with running Linux binaries on FreeBSD comes from >> userland stuff: missing libraries, etc. It's not "Linux emulation" - see >> http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/x18949.html > >Yes, which is why I'd rather use GNU utilities running on FreeBSD than spend >hours figuring out how to make a Linux binary work. As someone pointed out, >Debian is making some effort in this direction. I'll check that out. Also note that I just added ext2fs support to our bootloader, so with a little more effort, you might be able to drop a fbsd kernel into an existing Linux system and have it boot. There will the enevitable bunch of issues to iron out as well, so it's probably not as simple as it sounds. -- Jonathan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:23: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114D137BB9E for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA07048; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:22:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA09260; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:22:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200005240322.WAA09260@noel.cs.rice.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel To: glennpj@bayouhome.net (Glenn Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:22:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20000523220936.A1892@gforce.johnson.home> from "Glenn Johnson" at May 23, 2000 10:09:36 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I think you need to keep in mind that FreeBSD is more than just the > kernel, in contrast to Linux. The tight integration and control of all > of the userspace tools makes system management much easier IMHO with > FreeBSD than any Linux distribution I have used. This is especially true > when you have a fleet of machines to keep up to date. > > I think you are right though that visibility need to be increased to > attract commercial developers but I think the only way to do that is to > steadily grow the user base. > Well, I'm not about to give up FreeBSD running on my desktop, but at times it is frustrating to not being able to use so much stuff out there that's meant to work for Linux but doesn't work for FreeBSD for one small reason or another. I think the user base can only grow if it is as easy to use third-party applications on FreeBSD as on Linux. - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:32:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.glue.umd.edu (po4.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB40D37BBDE for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:32:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@glue.umd.edu) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (root@z.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.71]) by po4.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21722; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA04517; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04513; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:32:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: z.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:32:11 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: Mohit Aron Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240230.VAA07954@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > And not without reason. Their proposal aimed to replace FSF utilities with > BSD equivalents - I don't think they are considering the kernel as a utility. > I don't really any benefit from this. > > The binaries being distributed for Linux make use of Linux utilities (whether > or not they are from FSF) and it makes little sense to replace them. Replacing > the kernel though - that's another matter. Actually, I went backwards. My mistake. Not that getting rid of GNU tools is an all bad idea... :) Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:35:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us [216.186.55.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2054037BBB4 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:35:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Received: from localhost (protozoa@localhost) by locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA76556; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:34:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:34:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Feldman To: Mohit Aron Cc: Glenn Johnson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240322.WAA09260@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The thing is, using Linux applications on Linux isn't all that easy. There definately needs to be a better packaging system, but that won't happen anytime soon. On the other hand, commercial apps usually have very precise instructions as to what one should do. If you're a little creative you can generally break the rules to get these to run on FreeBSD. For instance, I installed StarOffice by timing the length of the binary first-stage installer (which is broken on my FreeBSD system), running it again and stopping it just before it finishes, and then finding the newly-extracted second-stage installer in the /tmp directory. (I'm pretty sure the installer works better on newer versions of FreeBSD). I think the answer is more to convince application vendors to go the extra inch and write a back-up install script that's a little more portable than their fancy GUI things, rather than asking the kernel hackers to go the extra mile to ensure every Linux program works perfectly. -- Dan Feldman Hacker, webmaster and computer connoisseur Out of sight, out of mind, out of hand. Visit http://messenger.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us/, okay? On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > > > > > I think you need to keep in mind that FreeBSD is more than just the > > kernel, in contrast to Linux. The tight integration and control of all > > of the userspace tools makes system management much easier IMHO with > > FreeBSD than any Linux distribution I have used. This is especially true > > when you have a fleet of machines to keep up to date. > > > > I think you are right though that visibility need to be increased to > > attract commercial developers but I think the only way to do that is to > > steadily grow the user base. > > > > > Well, I'm not about to give up FreeBSD running on my desktop, but at times > it is frustrating to not being able to use so much stuff out there that's > meant to work for Linux but doesn't work for FreeBSD for one small reason > or another. I think the user base can only grow if it is as easy to > use third-party applications on FreeBSD as on Linux. > > > > - Mohit > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5K03fm5zE2gDgwPgRAvn5AJ4g0lYYnEAHe0KvzK4zxcZ8Kn1bywCfZPIp ICXJNU6U/Blg049xrED09k8= =13gl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:37: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.glue.umd.edu (po4.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283C937BBF5 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@glue.umd.edu) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (root@z.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.71]) by po4.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21769; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA04717; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04713; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:36:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: z.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: Mohit Aron Cc: Glenn Johnson , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240322.WAA09260@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > Well, I'm not about to give up FreeBSD running on my desktop, but at times > it is frustrating to not being able to use so much stuff out there that's > meant to work for Linux but doesn't work for FreeBSD for one small reason > or another. I think the user base can only grow if it is as easy to > use third-party applications on FreeBSD as on Linux. It would be good if you pointed out these problems through PRs or at least a message to the appropriate list so that they could be fixed. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:48:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF7C37BA76 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA10727; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:48:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA09825; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:48:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200005240348.WAA09825@noel.cs.rice.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel To: protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (Dan Feldman) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:48:10 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Dan Feldman" at May 23, 2000 08:34:50 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On the other hand, commercial apps usually have very precise instructions > as to what one should do. If you're a little creative you can generally > break the rules to get these to run on FreeBSD. For instance, I installed > StarOffice by timing the length of the binary first-stage installer (which > is broken on my FreeBSD system), running it again and stopping it just > before it finishes, and then finding the newly-extracted second-stage > installer in the /tmp directory. (I'm pretty sure the installer works > better on newer versions of FreeBSD). Yes, making StarOffice work for FreeBSD was a real pain - before FreeBSD put out the port that is. Your example above also demonstrates how difficult it is sometimes to get Linux related stuff to work on FreeBSD. I believe even to make netscape plugins (for Linux) work, you need to use the linux version of netscape - not the FreeBSD one (at least this used to be true some time back). All these nifty things really scare any new users away from FreeBSD. > > I think the answer is more to convince application vendors to go the extra > inch and write a back-up install script that's a little more portable than > their fancy GUI things, rather than asking the kernel hackers to go the > extra mile to ensure every Linux program works perfectly. > Which clearly is an impossible job. Much easier to convince one party than to convince the one million vendors out there. :) But seriously, I think the problem can be fixed with a more transparent interface for Linux programs. Rather than requiring Linux libraries to be put in /compat/linux, it would be much easier if everything could be put in /usr/lib. Which probably means having the SAME interface as Linux. - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:53: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E4C37BB84 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:52:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24145; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:55:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Mohit Aron Cc: protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (Dan Feldman), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 May 2000 22:48:10 CDT." <200005240348.WAA09825@noel.cs.rice.edu> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:55:02 -0700 Message-ID: <24142.959140502@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > But seriously, I think the problem can be fixed with a more transparent > interface for Linux programs. Rather than requiring Linux libraries to be put > in /compat/linux, it would be much easier if everything could be put in > /usr/lib. Which probably means having the SAME interface as Linux. That would also result in a highly undesirable mish-mash of binaries in one's /usr/lib, nor do I see the real advantage since the linux compatability shim will look in /compat/linux/usr/lib first anyway. Perhaps we should go just a bit further with that approach and make things _write_ into that hierarchy first as well, e.g. if you run /compat/linux/bin/bash and then install something with rpm, it will install (as far as it's concerned) into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. but really be chrooted into the /compat/linux hierarchy and only affect things there. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:54:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83F9337BA76 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:54:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13807; Wed, 24 May 2000 03:53:51 GMT (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200005240348.WAA09825@noel.cs.rice.edu> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:23:51 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Mohit Aron Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, (Dan Feldman) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-May-00 Mohit Aron wrote: > But seriously, I think the problem can be fixed with a more transparent > interface for Linux programs. Rather than requiring Linux libraries to be > put > in /compat/linux, it would be much easier if everything could be put in > /usr/lib. Which probably means having the SAME interface as Linux. Why would somthing like that happen? I don't particularly want some Linux guy inventing a new library which has the same name as a system library and then spamming something vital in /usr/lib If its in /compat/linux at least its segregated, and doesn't screw something vital up. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 20:57:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cs.rice.edu (cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE3937B91B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 20:57:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from aron@cs.rice.edu) Received: from noel.cs.rice.edu (noel.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.136]) by cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA12116; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:57:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Mohit Aron Received: (from aron@localhost) by noel.cs.rice.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA10049; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:57:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200005240357.WAA10049@noel.cs.rice.edu> Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel To: jkh@zippy.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:57:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <24142.959140502@localhost> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at May 23, 2000 08:55:02 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Perhaps we should go just a bit further with that approach and make > things _write_ into that hierarchy first as well, e.g. if you run > /compat/linux/bin/bash and then install something with rpm, it will > install (as far as it's concerned) into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. but > really be chrooted into the /compat/linux hierarchy and only affect > things there. > Yes, that looks promising. That'll possibly enable one to install rpms easily on FreeBSD. - Mohit To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 21: 5:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9646F37B91B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (doconnor@cain [203.38.152.97]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA13968; Wed, 24 May 2000 04:05:02 GMT (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200005240357.WAA10049@noel.cs.rice.edu> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:35:02 +0930 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Mohit Aron Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, (Jordan K. Hubbard) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-May-00 Mohit Aron wrote: > Yes, that looks promising. That'll possibly enable one to install rpms > easily on FreeBSD. You can try this too.. rpm --ignoreos --root /compat/linux --dbbath /var/lib/rpm --nodeps --replacepkgs foo.rpm I did this to install Linux gtk libs a while ago and it worked (note its stolen from the linux_base port) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 21:45:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9723E37BBB9; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA29203; Tue, 23 May 2000 21:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Mohit Aron Cc: Dan Feldman , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <200005240348.WAA09825@noel.cs.rice.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 23 May 2000, Mohit Aron wrote: > I believe even to make netscape plugins (for Linux) work, you need to > use the linux version of netscape - not the FreeBSD one (at least this > used to be true some time back). All these nifty things really scare > any new users away from FreeBSD. You can't mix and match Linux syscalls and FreeBSD syscalls in the same program - the kernel has no way to know how it should interpret them. > But seriously, I think the problem can be fixed with a more transparent > interface for Linux programs. Rather than requiring Linux libraries to be put > in /compat/linux, it would be much easier if everything could be put in > /usr/lib. Which probably means having the SAME interface as Linux. No thanks. Firstly there's the fact that many files exist in both Linux and FreeBSD versions, but don't work the same (e.g. GNU versions of system utilities), and secondly there's the fact that I don't want my system being spammed by a zillion linux files amongst my "native" ones with no way to tell which is which. Then there's the issue of shared libraries, which combines with problem #2 and leads to the problem in my first paragraph mentioned above. Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 22:25:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9A537BBDE for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:25:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA71338; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:25:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005240525.WAA71338@apollo.backplane.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mohit Aron , protozoa@locutus.ghs.ssd.k12.wa.us (Dan Feldman), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel References: <24142.959140502@localhost> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :> But seriously, I think the problem can be fixed with a more transparent :> interface for Linux programs. Rather than requiring Linux libraries to be put :> in /compat/linux, it would be much easier if everything could be put in :> /usr/lib. Which probably means having the SAME interface as Linux. : :That would also result in a highly undesirable mish-mash of binaries :in one's /usr/lib, nor do I see the real advantage since the linux :compatability shim will look in /compat/linux/usr/lib first anyway. : :Perhaps we should go just a bit further with that approach and make :things _write_ into that hierarchy first as well, e.g. if you run :/compat/linux/bin/bash and then install something with rpm, it will :install (as far as it's concerned) into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. but :really be chrooted into the /compat/linux hierarchy and only affect :things there. : :- Jordan I see the ports system as being our saving grace here, at least in regards to installing commercial linux applications. I don't like the idea of 'writing to /compat/linux' first, if only because the 'try reading from /compat/linux then give up and try /' idea that we are already using doesn't have a good track record -- it creates a lot of confusion already. The writing will create even more. I think the best solution is to have the linux compatibility code chroot to /compat/linux right off the bat (when a FreeBSD binary exec's a linux binary), and then we get rid of all the 'try /compat/linux first' junk from the kernel. Things that we want to share, like /usr/home, we can mount under /compat/linux... all it requires is a someone to finish cleaning up the null device (I am not volunteering, I don't have time :-( ). In any case, with just a few strategic directories shared like that, in a chroot'd environment, I think the linux environment can be made to work very nicely under FreeBSD. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 23: 2:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from burka.carrier.kiev.ua (burka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.193.193.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC9937BBFE for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:02:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netch@lucky.net) Received: from netch@localhost by burka.carrier.kiev.ua id JAW91241; Wed, 24 May 2000 09:02:14 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from netch) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:02:14 +0300 From: Valentin Nechayev To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: gcc 2.95.2 extra %esp addings Message-ID: <20000524090214.W66599@lucky.net> Reply-To: netch@lucky.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i X-42: On Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Consider a little test program: > #include > extern int func_a( int, int ); > int main() > { > int i; > for( i = 0; i < 100; i++ ) { > printf( "%d\n", func_a( i, i+2 ) ); > } > return 0; > } Part of assembler code built by gcc 2.7.2.3 (on FreeBSD-3.4-stable): > pushl %ebp > movl %esp,%ebp > pushl %ebx > xorl %ebx,%ebx > .L15: > leal 2(%ebx),%eax > pushl %eax > pushl %ebx > call func_a > pushl %eax > pushl $.LC0 > call printf Part of the same built by gcc 2.95.2 (on FreeBSD 4.0-stable or 5.0-current): > pushl %ebp > movl %esp,%ebp > subl $20,%esp > pushl %ebx > xorl %ebx,%ebx > .L10: > addl $-8,%esp > addl $-8,%esp > leal 2(%ebx),%eax > pushl %eax > pushl %ebx > call func_a > pushl %eax > pushl $.LC0 > call printf One can observe extra commands which deals with %esp (add or subtract something). This was built with -O99 (full command line for both gcc versions: gcc -O99 -S -g main.c), with any extra code-generation options or without them, result is the same. Also tested on some real programs from -current src tree, with the same (extra addings to %esp) result. gcc 2.95.1 from port does not add such commands. In program where this was discovered, situation is even worse: > .stabn 68,0,8,.LM3-main > .LM3: > addl $32,%esp > addl $-8,%esp > addl $-8,%esp > pushl $1 > pushl $0 > call func_a and none optimization groups these operations. Is it reasonable or it is bugfeature of this gcc version? Is it FreeBSD-specific? And what reason is to have two identical (except some html docs) copies of gcc - src/contrib/gcc and src/contrib/gcc.295 ? -- NVA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 23: 4:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.nyct.net (bsd4.nyct.net [204.141.86.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B5337BBE7 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:04:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mbac@nyct.net) Received: from bsd1.nyct.net (root@bsd1.nyct.net [204.141.86.3]) by mail.nyct.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA29520; Wed, 24 May 2000 02:03:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mbac@nyct.net) Received: from localhost (mbac@localhost) by bsd1.nyct.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26439; Wed, 24 May 2000 02:03:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mbac@nyct.net) X-Authentication-Warning: bsd1.nyct.net: mbac owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 02:03:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bacarella To: Glenn Johnson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <20000523220936.A1892@gforce.johnson.home> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > On the other hand, the FreeBSD kernel is superior than that of Linux. > > Yes, and FreeBSD is also superior to every Linux distribution I have > seen. Although SuSE is pretty good. And my penis is _SO_ much larger than yours. Large penises are _ALWAYS_ better, of course. -MB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue May 23 23:52: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.tesserae.com (freebsd.tesserae.com [209.157.194.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C03C37B89C for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pwiley@cadabra.com) Received: by freebsd.tesserae.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 016FB498; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freebsd.tesserae.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F191E497; Tue, 23 May 2000 23:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:52:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Preston S. Wiley" X-Sender: pwiley@freebsd.tesserae.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: Mohit Aron , Dan Feldman , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: <24142.959140502@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Perhaps we should go just a bit further with that approach and make > things _write_ into that hierarchy first as well, e.g. if you run > /compat/linux/bin/bash and then install something with rpm, it will > install (as far as it's concerned) into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. but > really be chrooted into the /compat/linux hierarchy and only affect > things there. Actually, I'm pretty sure that this does work as has since the 3.2 tree, when I thought to try it and see if it would. You actually have 2 options. 1. You can run /compat/linux/bin/bash and then you in a sort of Linux/FreeBSD directory mix. The root directory looks just like your FreeBSD root, but changing to a directory that is in /compat/linux, like /bin, will put in the linux tree of this directory, but changing to a directory that doesn't exist, like /home, will keep you in the FreeBSD structure. This is very close to being able to run FreeBSD and Linux at the same time (/bin/csh in one xterm and /compat/linux/bin/bash in another). Within this, you can do an rpm or any linux command and you will be operating on the Linux/FreeBSD mix directory structure. 2. Just run /compat/linux/bin/rpm (or any other command in /compat/linux) and you will be operating on the Linux directory structure as described above. I've found the Linux emulation on FreeBSD to be one of the best, most integrated emulation I've ever seen of anything. I've messed around with it quite a bit and discovered quite a few nifty tricks you can do. I've never actually tried it, but I think you could probably compile Linux binaries under FreeBSD by installing the Linux version of gcc and using it. Very cool stuff. Keep up the excellent work! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Preston Wiley GoTo.Com, Inc. Systems Administrator 1820 Gateway Drive, Suite 300 pwiley@cadabra.com San Mateo, CA 94404 650/403-2227 http://www.cadabra.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 0: 5:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8AD37B52E for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 00:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24922; Wed, 24 May 2000 00:07:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Preston S. Wiley" Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Mohit Aron , Dan Feldman , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 May 2000 23:52:00 PDT." Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:07:06 -0700 Message-ID: <24919.959152026@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1. You can run /compat/linux/bin/bash and then you in a sort of > Linux/FreeBSD directory mix. The root directory looks just like your > FreeBSD root, but changing to a directory that is in /compat/linux, like > /bin, will put in the linux tree of this directory, but changing to a > directory that doesn't exist, like /home, will keep you in the FreeBSD Well, what do you know - you're right! :) I learn something new every day. > I've found the Linux emulation on FreeBSD to be one of the best, most > integrated emulation I've ever seen of anything. I've messed around with > it quite a bit and discovered quite a few nifty tricks you can do. I've > never actually tried it, but I think you could probably compile Linux > binaries under FreeBSD by installing the Linux version of gcc and using > it. There used to be a linux-devel port which did exactly this. Don't know what became of it, however.. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 0:39:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FCAD37B721 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 00:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 94F321C5C; Wed, 24 May 2000 03:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 03:39:16 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: "Preston S. Wiley" , Mohit Aron , Dan Feldman , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel Message-ID: <20000524033916.S86725@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: <24919.959152026@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <24919.959152026@localhost>; from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com on Wed, May 24, 2000 at 12:07:06AM -0700 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, May 24, 2000 at 12:07:06AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > There used to be a linux-devel port which did exactly this. Don't > know what became of it, however.. [hawk-billf] /home/billf > cat /usr/ports/devel/linux_devtools/pkg/COMMENT Packages needed for doing development in Linux mode -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect / Computer Horizons Corp - CVM e-mail: billf@chc-chimes.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 1:55:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from monterosa.urbanet.ch (monterosa.urbanet.ch [195.202.193.104]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B69A037BC2D for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 01:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tludwig@urbanet.ch) Received: (qmail 26709 invoked from network); 24 May 2000 08:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO urbanet.ch) (194.38.83.108) by monterosa.urbanet.ch with SMTP; 24 May 2000 08:55:34 -0000 Message-ID: <392B9923.47A8AA22@urbanet.ch> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:56:03 +0200 From: Thomas Ludwig X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: error in usr.bin/ftp/main.c ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, in usr.bin/ftp/main.c at line 407; instead of if (line[--num] == '\n') { it should probably be if (buf[--num] == '\n') { looks like a copy-paste error to me. greets thomas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 7:24:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peace.upol.cz (peace.upol.cz [158.194.200.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563E937BC1A for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 07:24:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from zeno@peace.upol.cz) Received: from localhost (zeno@localhost) by peace.upol.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04226 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 16:24:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from zeno@peace.upol.cz) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:24:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Zeno To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: MAD16 in FreeBSD 4.0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm using FreeBSD-4.0-RELEASE and I'm not able to get my sound card work. my soundcard is "Monte Carlo 929" by "Turtle Beach". AFAIK there is MAD16 (OPTi 82C929) and is compatible w/ mss, sb (i guess sb pro), midi (YM 3812/OPL3) and have MPU 401 interface. I only need mss to work. There are some documents about configuring it but now... I found out this: using device snd is obsolete, I tried it and there is much more nois than real sounds device pcm doesnt find the card device pcm0 irq 10 ... etc.... then this if found: pcm0: at port 0x530-0x537 irq 10 drq 1 flags 0xa100 on isa0 but at boot time and at any time I want to use it, it seems to wait for some time-out... nothing there's nothing to be heared. $ cat /dev/sndstat FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm) May 23 2000 11:08:18 Installed devices: pcm0: at io 0x530 irq 10 drq 1 (1p/1r channels) I had the similar (or the same) problem in linux, it seems that it found mss (CS4231A) but do not use MAD16 which is really needed to be used to make sound (AFAIK - but maybe I'm wrong). The problem was solved w/ Linux 2.2.x. I have found some information in list-archives - there was some options MAD16_PORT but it doesn't seem to work. And handbook is about kernel 3.x :( - am I missing the newest one? Any help? Zeno To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-multimedia" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 11:20:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nadia.s.bawue.de (nadia.s.bawue.de [193.197.11.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B7537B87F for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 11:20:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tf@wurbl.wn.bawue.de) Received: from wurbl.wn.bawue.de (uucp@localhost) by nadia.s.bawue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id UAA14273 for freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:20:48 +0200 (CEST) Posted-Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:20:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from uucp (helo=prian.bk.int) by wurbl.bk.int with local-esmtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12ufif-00035U-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:17:26 +0200 Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:11:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Thomas Faehnle Subject: Need help debugging a crash (PR kern/18685) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I'm trying to assist in debugging the crash reported as kern/18685-- apparently Greg is unable to reproduce the problem on his machine. The error | Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode | fault virtual address = 0x69666f27 | fault code = supervisor read, page not present | instruction pointer = 0x8:0xc0158c14 | stack pointer = 0x10:0xc3dd7bf8 | frame pointer = 0x10:0xc3dd7c0c | code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b | = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 | processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 | current process = 974 (make) | interrupt mask = none | kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 | Stopped at dscheck+0x104: movl 0xb8(%esi),%edx | | db> trace | dscheck(c1413728,c08c6900) at dscheck+0x104 | diskstrategy(c1413728,c0845e80,c1413728,0,c3dd7c4c) at diskstrategy+0xad | spec_strategy(c3dd7c70,c3dd7c58,c0208f7d,c3dd7c70,c3dd7c8c) at spec_strategy+0x8c | spec_vnoperate(c3dd7c70,c3dd7c8c,c02089e5,c3dd7c70,c3dd7ce4) at spec_vnoperate+0x15 | ufs_vnoperatespec(c3dd7c70,c3dd7ce4,c1413728,0,c028ae80) at ufs_vnoperatespec+0x15 | ... occurs at line 198 ("labelsect = lp->d_partitions[LABEL_PART].p_offset;") of /sys/kern/subr_diskslice.c due to a bogus "struct diskslices" pointer (the second argument of dscheck(), "ssp"). I can't do a crash dump, since ddb refuses to step past the instruction that triggered the trap (saying "panic" just repeats the above message). I can't catch the "ssp" pointer when it gets corrupted either, since watchpoints don't seem to work in ddb (at least not on kernel memory). What can I do to help getting this fixed? Suggestions? Thomas -- Thomas Faehnle, Am Sommerrain 12, D-71522 Backnang | MIME mail welcome mail: tf@wurbl.wn.bawue.de * phone: +49 7191 954671 | PGP key available To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 11:43:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E63937BD2A for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 11:43:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15766; Wed, 24 May 2000 12:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA54054; Wed, 24 May 2000 12:42:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005241842.MAA54054@harmony.village.org> To: Duncan Barclay Subject: Re: xxx_stop and ifq->if_snd in NIC drivers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 23 May 2000 21:48:46 BST." References: Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:42:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Duncan Barclay writes: : In a wireless NIC driver should one drain the output queue when the interface is : stopped? I've been perusing /sys/dev/awi.c and the output queue is drained in : that driver. It depends on how the interface is stopped. If it is being stopped a few milliseconds before it loses power, I don't think it would make sense to drain anything... If it is just ifconfig down, then it likely makes sense. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 12:53:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B5037BCE3 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 12:53:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11193 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200005241956.PAA11193@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:57:16 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: shutdownhook_establish() Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I see references to this routing (apparently replacing at_shutdown() in v4.0) but compiling it into a driver results in an unresolved reference. I also dont see it in any of the include files. How can this be used, and where does it live? Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 15: 7:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from resnet.uoregon.edu (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.144.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1586637BCBC for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:07:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu) Received: from localhost (dwhite@localhost) by resnet.uoregon.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e4OM6wB27918; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:06:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug White To: "Daniel O'Connor" Cc: Mohit Aron , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 May 2000, Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 24-May-00 Mohit Aron wrote: > > Yes, that looks promising. That'll possibly enable one to install rpms > > easily on FreeBSD. > > You can try this too.. > > rpm --ignoreos --root /compat/linux --dbbath /var/lib/rpm --nodeps > --replacepkgs foo.rpm Or: /compat/linux/bin/bash rpm .... Running Linux-based installers directly in the FreeBSD environment can Cause Problems(tm), particularly if they're shells scripts that make assumptions. Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 15:36:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFBF437BD99 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:36:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA77407; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:36:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:36:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005242236.PAA77407@apollo.backplane.com> To: Doug White Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , Mohit Aron , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@zippy.cdrom.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Or: : :/compat/linux/bin/bash :rpm .... : :Running Linux-based installers directly in the FreeBSD environment can :Cause Problems(tm), particularly if they're shells scripts that make :assumptions. : :Doug White | FreeBSD: The Power to Serve :dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu | www.FreeBSD.org That should be mostly fixed now, actually, insofar as you have the correct linux utilities installed in /compat/linux (so the scripts don't break-out of the linux emulation by running freebsd utilities which then turn around and try to run other scripts). -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 15:36:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (mass.cdrom.com [204.216.28.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41D937BD99 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:36:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01632; Wed, 24 May 2000 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005242238.PAA01632@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Dennis Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: shutdownhook_establish() In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 24 May 2000 15:57:16 EDT." <200005241956.PAA11193@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:38:14 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I see references to this routing (apparently replacing at_shutdown() in > v4.0) but compiling it into a driver results in an unresolved reference. I > also dont see it in any of the include files. > > How can this be used, and where does it live? Use EVENTHANDLER_REGISTER; see sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c for examples. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 16: 8:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from guardian.sftw.com (guardian.sftw.com [209.157.37.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E4437B975 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 16:08:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsayer@sftw.com) Received: from yoda.sftw.com (yoda.sftw.com [209.157.37.211]) by guardian.sftw.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA68957; Wed, 24 May 2000 16:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsayer@sftw.com) Received: from sftw.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yoda.sftw.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01517; Wed, 24 May 2000 16:08:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsayer@sftw.com) Message-ID: <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:08:33 -0700 From: Nick Sayer Reply-To: nsayer@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Needed: suid library calls (was Re: cvs commit: src/crypto/openssh sshd_config) References: <20000524090528.ECF641CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000524022840.C79861@freebsd.org> <200005241446.KAA60257@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524075921.A53829@freebsd.org> <200005241709.NAA60822@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524105558.A3407@freebsd.org> <200005241853.OAA61188@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <392C3E40.E0D8974D@vangelderen.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" wrote: > [...] > > Since user authentication is needed by more than one program it > should live in it's own process. Right now there is code > duplication and it is impossible to change the authentication > policy without messing with sshd. > What we _really_ need is some mechanism to recognize the difference between a user program and a system library, with an eye towards granting privileges to trusted libraries without letting those privileges leak past the library in question. I don't claim that this is an _easy_ thing to do, nor that it is a particularly standard thing to do. But the mechanism of having some sort of daemon or service whose job it is to just do !strcmp(pw->pw_passwd,crypt(foo,pw->pw_passwd)) is, I think, kind of overkill. Perhaps some sort of syscall to change the euid that only works in privileged libraries would work. User authentication is only one example. There are many things that only root can do where letting non-root do the job is not dangerous, but granting non-root permission in a general way is. Another good example is daemons that must bind listening sockets <1024, but don't need root otherwise. The entire binary must be suid up to the bind, at which point the program may renounce the suid bit (setreuid(getuid(),getuid());). Wouldn't it be more secure if a library could selectively grant low ports to _selected_ non-suid programs (perhaps with a config file)? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 18: 3:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D891E37B583 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:03:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@pc0640.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115245>; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:03:39 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: hack.c in kernel To: Manny Obrey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <00May25.110339est.115245@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:03:37 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 19 May 2000 17:35:34 PDT, "Manny Obrey" wrote: >I saw the following near the end of running "make depend;make" during a >kernel re-config ... seriously, is this something to be concerned about? ... >cc -elf -shared -nostdlib hack.c -o hack.So To expand somewhat on Kris's answer: hack.So is a dummy shared object whose sole purpose is to make the linker mark the kernel as a `dynamic', rather than `static' executable. This allows it to use the dynamic loader (ie load kernel modules at run time). This is probably an RTFM, but I'm not sure which FM to suggest you R. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 18: 3:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53DC437B9B1 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@pc0640.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115250>; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:03:40 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: file creation times ? To: adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <00May25.110340est.115250@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:03:38 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 18 May 2000 10:35:11 -0700, Arun Sharma wrote: >On Thu, May 18, 2000 at 09:04:52PM +0400, Aleksandr A.Babaylov wrote: >> Arun Sharma writes: >> > Is there any reason why FreeBSD doesn't store file creation times on >> > the disk (apart from historical reasons) ? To put it another way, why _should_ FreeBSD store a file creation time? >> in adddition to atime, ctime and mtime? > >struct timespec st_atimespec; /* time of last access */ >struct timespec st_mtimespec; /* time of last data modification */ >struct timespec st_ctimespec; /* time of last file status change */ > >None of them tell me when the file was created. That's all Unix has ever offered (both the original AT&T FS and FFS/UFS). If you really need a file creation time, you'll need a different filesystem. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 18: 9:57 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (bubba.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF6F37BAA5 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:09:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA02960; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:07:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200005250107.SAA02960@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: boot/kernel debugging In-Reply-To: from Nick Hibma at "May 21, 2000 12:02:53 pm" To: n_hibma@calcaphon.com (Nick Hibma) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 18:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org (J McKitrick), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Hibma writes: > In general it is well possible to single step anything in the > kernel. You might find occasions where things stop working, and odd > cases were things all of a sudden start working, but normally, apart > from hardware things, most things are not time critical, or create > problems through spin locks. > > You can single step at boot time, by setting the flags in the loader. > > set boot_ddb # jump to debugger > set boot_gdb # use remote gdb for debugging by default Also don't for get 'sysctl -w debug.enter_debugger=ddb' (or gdb) to enter the debugger from the command line. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 18:20:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bubba.whistle.com (bubba.whistle.com [207.76.205.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9330337BAA5 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:20:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA02997; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:20:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <200005250120.SAA02997@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Need help debugging a crash (PR kern/18685) In-Reply-To: from Thomas Faehnle at "May 24, 2000 08:11:31 pm" To: tf@wurbl.wn.bawue.de (Thomas Faehnle) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 18:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas Faehnle writes: > I'm trying to assist in debugging the crash reported as kern/18685-- > apparently Greg is unable to reproduce the problem on his machine. Have you tried hooking up another machine via serial console and using gdb? -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 18:24:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cis.ohio-state.edu (mail.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.115.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A081837BB51; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:24:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matey@cis.ohio-state.edu) Received: from alpha.cis.ohio-state.edu (matey@alpha.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.15]) by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05349; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from matey@localhost) by alpha.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA02860; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 21:24:16 -0400 From: Alexander Matey To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Driver for Aureal Vortex* based soundcards is available Message-ID: <20000524212416.A486@cis.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [Please, remove hackers from Cc: list when replying] Finally took the time to put this stuff together. I am releasing the newpcm driver for Aureal Vortex1, Vortex2, Vortex Advantage based soundcards (au8830, au8820, au8810 chipsets). This is not a "true" driver, it needs to be linked with Aureal's Linux Vortex binary core which provides the interface to the Vortex hardware. Detailed information can be found on: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~matey/au88x0/ Driver supports 4 playback channels at sampling rates 4 though 48kHz. Recording is also supported to some extent. The only soundcard I had the chance to test it with was my Diamond Monster MX-300 (Vortex2, au8830 based card). If your soundcard is based on au8820 or au8810 chipsets please give it a try. I'd like to know if it works for other chipsets as well. I tested it on 5.0-CURRENT although I believe it should compile and run on 4.0-STABLE as well. This my first driver, any comments are appreciated. :) -- lx To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 18:59:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6C837B6CC for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:59:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19666; Wed, 24 May 2000 18:58:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 18:58:59 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Peter Jeremy Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: file creation times ? Message-ID: <20000524185859.A19573@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <00May25.110340est.115250@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <00May25.110340est.115250@border.alcanet.com.au>; from Peter Jeremy on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:03:38AM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:03:38AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On Thu, 18 May 2000 10:35:11 -0700, Arun Sharma wrote: > > >On Thu, May 18, 2000 at 09:04:52PM +0400, Aleksandr A.Babaylov wrote: > >> Arun Sharma writes: > >> > Is there any reason why FreeBSD doesn't store file creation times on > >> > the disk (apart from historical reasons) ? > > To put it another way, why _should_ FreeBSD store a file creation time? 0. I'm tired of seeing people putting "Created: mm/dd/yy" in their documents. 1. NTFS does it. It's a part of SMB. I suspect that Samba just uses the last modified time. 2. An average computer user would expect it. I didn't know that UNIX didn't keep track of file creation times 5-6 years after I started using it. > That's all Unix has ever offered (both the original AT&T FS and > FFS/UFS). If you really need a file creation time, you'll need a > different filesystem. I know. That's why I ask. So if someone designs a ext3fs killer journalling filesystem for BSD, would they consider adding it :) ? -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 19:11:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1261837BDF6 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 19:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id TAA78261; Wed, 24 May 2000 19:11:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005250211.TAA78261@apollo.backplane.com> To: Nick Sayer Cc: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls (was Re: cvs commit: src/crypto/openssh sshd_config) References: <20000524090528.ECF641CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000524022840.C79861@freebsd.org> <200005241446.KAA60257@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524075921.A53829@freebsd.org> <200005241709.NAA60822@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524105558.A3407@freebsd.org> <200005241853.OAA61188@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <392C3E40.E0D8974D@vangelderen.org> <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :"Jeroen C. van Gelderen" wrote: : :> [...] :> :> Since user authentication is needed by more than one program it :> should live in it's own process. Right now there is code :> duplication and it is impossible to change the authentication :> policy without messing with sshd. :> : :What we _really_ need is some mechanism to recognize the difference :between a user program and a system library, with an eye towards :granting privileges to trusted libraries without letting those privileges :leak past the library in question. Oh god, its MULTICS! Run! Run! Run for the hills! -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 20: 7:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (law-f52.hotmail.com [209.185.131.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E0A337B870 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from manny8383@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 3588 invoked by uid 0); 25 May 2000 03:07:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20000525030714.3587.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.8.96.27 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:07:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.8.96.27] From: "Manny Obrey" To: peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: hack.c in kernel Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:07:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG tks for the clarifcation! >From: Peter Jeremy >To: Manny Obrey >CC: hackers@freebsd.org >Subject: hack.c in kernel >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:03:37 +1000 > >On Fri, 19 May 2000 17:35:34 PDT, "Manny Obrey" >wrote: > >I saw the following near the end of running "make depend;make" during a > >kernel re-config ... seriously, is this something to be concerned about? >... > >cc -elf -shared -nostdlib hack.c -o hack.So > >To expand somewhat on Kris's answer: hack.So is a dummy shared object >whose sole purpose is to make the linker mark the kernel as a >`dynamic', rather than `static' executable. This allows it to use the >dynamic loader (ie load kernel modules at run time). This is probably >an RTFM, but I'm not sure which FM to suggest you R. > >Peter ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 20:13: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from quack.kfu.com (quack.kfu.com [170.1.70.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F4937B7D7 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsayer@quack.kfu.com) Received: from icarus.kfu.com (icarus.kfu.com [170.1.70.37]) by quack.kfu.com (8.9.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA89130; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nsayer@quack.kfu.com) Received: from quack.kfu.com by icarus.kfu.com with ESMTP (8.9.3//ident-1.0) id UAA12129; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <392C9A33.1050EE03@quack.kfu.com> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:12:51 -0700 From: Nick Sayer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls (was Re: cvs commit: src/crypto/openssh sshd_config) References: <20000524090528.ECF641CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000524022840.C79861@freebsd.org> <200005241446.KAA60257@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524075921.A53829@freebsd.org> <200005241709.NAA60822@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524105558.A3407@freebsd.org> <200005241853.OAA61188@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <392C3E40.E0D8974D@vangelderen.org> <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> <200005250211.TAA78261@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: [lost attribution. Nick wrote this] > : > :What we _really_ need is some mechanism to recognize the difference > :between a user program and a system library, with an eye towards > :granting privileges to trusted libraries without letting those privileges > :leak past the library in question. > > Oh god, its MULTICS! Run! Run! Run for the hills! See? Final proof that those who don't know history are bound to repeat it. :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 20:15:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3EA37B870 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 20:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115222>; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:15:27 +1000 Content-return: prohibited From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-reply-to: <20000524185859.A19573@sharmas.dhs.org>; from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:59:41AM +1000 To: Arun Sharma Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00May25.131527est.115222@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <00May25.110340est.115250@border.alcanet.com.au> <20000524185859.A19573@sharmas.dhs.org> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:15:26 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2000-May-25 11:59:41 +1000, Arun Sharma wrote: >On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:03:38AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: >> To put it another way, why _should_ FreeBSD store a file creation time? > >0. I'm tired of seeing people putting "Created: mm/dd/yy" in their documents. - UFS stores a UID for each file, but that doesn't stop "Author: J. Bloggs" in documents. Why would storing a creation timestamp be any different? - How do you determine the creation time of a file when it's printed? - If I make a copy of an existing file, was the new file created when the original file was created or when I did the copy? >1. NTFS does it. It's a part of SMB. That's not justification for putting a creation time into the UFS. Different filesystems store different information - depending on what the FS developers saw as important. You could just as easily point out the deficiencies of NTFS based on it's inability to support all the metadata in NFS. > I suspect that Samba just uses the last modified time. According to the SAMBA documentation, it uses the earliest of the 3 timestamps that are available. (Or can be told to fake a creation time of 1980-JAN-01 0000 on directories). Transferring file metadata between systems is always problematic. Generally the metadata translation layer does the best it can and fakes the rest. For example, NTFS access and modification timestamps can't be translated to Unix timestamps without knowing the location (timezone) where the NTFS file was last modified/accessed. >2. An average computer user would expect it. I didn't know that UNIX didn't > keep track of file creation times 5-6 years after I started using it. If it took you 5-6 years to notice that the creation time _wasn't_ stored, the creation time can't have been that important to you. (And I haven't previously run into anyone else who wanted a creation time, so the expectation can't be that widespread). > So if someone designs a ext3fs killer journalling >filesystem for BSD, would they consider adding it :) ? Adding a creation timestamp would add 4 or 8 bytes of metadata to each file, as well as requiring additional code (and CPU time) to manage it. A 6th Edition inode was 32 bytes (and only stored access and modify times). A FreeBSD inode is already 4 times as big. It's necessary to strike a balance between storing every possible piece of information about a file and the amount of space/time used to store/manage this metadata. A modification timestamp is essential to support incremental backups. Splitting it into separate data and metadata timestamps meets POLA (users generally want 'modification' to mean that the content changed, not that the file was renamed). Access timestamps are important for filespace management (knowing what files aren't used and can therefore be archived or deleted). As far as I'm concerned, you still haven't demonstrated any real need or justification for a creation timestamp. That said, there's nothing stopping you adding a creation timestamp to the UFS and providing patches. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 21:18: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from russian-caravan.cloud9.net (russian-caravan.cloud9.net [168.100.1.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1B037B6AE for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 21:17:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottd@cloud9.net) Received: from earl-grey.cloud9.net (earl-grey [168.100.1.1]) by russian-caravan.cloud9.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6D676409 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 00:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by earl-grey.cloud9.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id F33621F0B; Thu, 25 May 2000 00:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by earl-grey.cloud9.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E632630707 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 00:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:17:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Drassinower To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: NFS, permissions and 4.0-RELEASE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have several partitions from a 3.2-RELEASE machine mounted via NFS on a 4.0-RELEASE machine. On the 4.0 machine, I am unable to append to a world writable file (622, for example) that resides on the 3.2 machine. This did not happen with 3.3. Using cat >>/nfspath/file results in "cat: stdout: Permission denied" as soon as the first line of text tries to get appended. I double-checked the mount point permissions on the 4.0 box and they are the same as on a 3.3 box that does the above with no problem. The mount point is set to 755. Am I missing something very obvious, or have things changed a bit in this situation with 4.0? -- Scott M. Drassinower scottd@cloud9.net Cloud 9 Internet White Plains, NY +1 914 696-4000 / 800 356-5683 http://www.cloud9.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed May 24 22:41:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cypherpunks.ai (cypherpunks.ai [209.88.68.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9050837B5B4 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 22:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeroen@vangelderen.org) Received: from vangelderen.org (intefix.ai [209.88.68.216]) by cypherpunks.ai (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7173454; Thu, 25 May 2000 01:41:42 -0400 (AST) Message-ID: <392CBD12.55788BBB@vangelderen.org> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 01:41:38 -0400 From: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Nick Sayer , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls (was Re: cvs commit: src/crypto/openssh sshd_config) References: <20000524090528.ECF641CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000524022840.C79861@freebsd.org> <200005241446.KAA60257@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524075921.A53829@freebsd.org> <200005241709.NAA60822@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524105558.A3407@freebsd.org> <200005241853.OAA61188@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <392C3E40.E0D8974D@vangelderen.org> <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> <200005250211.TAA78261@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > :"Jeroen C. van Gelderen" wrote: > : > :> [...] > :> > :> Since user authentication is needed by more than one program it > :> should live in it's own process. Right now there is code > :> duplication and it is impossible to change the authentication > :> policy without messing with sshd. > :> > : > :What we _really_ need is some mechanism to recognize the difference > :between a user program and a system library, with an eye towards > :granting privileges to trusted libraries without letting those privileges > :leak past the library in question. > > Oh god, its MULTICS! Run! Run! Run for the hills! Hold on! I only spoke the first part, mind your quoting pleaz! Cheers, Jeroen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 2: 3:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.139.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E103637B527 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (hak.nat.Awfulhak.org [172.31.0.12]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA78840; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:03:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00580; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:21:14 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200005250821.JAA00580@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Peter Jeremy Cc: Arun Sharma , hackers@FreeBSD.org, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-Reply-To: Message from Peter Jeremy of "Thu, 25 May 2000 13:15:26 +1000." <00May25.131527est.115222@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:21:14 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [.....] > Adding a creation timestamp would add 4 or 8 bytes of metadata > to each file, as well as requiring additional code (and CPU time) > to manage it. A 6th Edition inode was 32 bytes (and only stored > access and modify times). A FreeBSD inode is already 4 times as > big. It's necessary to strike a balance between storing every > possible piece of information about a file and the amount of > space/time used to store/manage this metadata. I'm not advocating adding a creation time, but had it been done when the ufs/ffs was designed I think it would be a nice thing - *but* I suspect the correct place to store it is in the directory itself along with the inode number and file name. > A modification timestamp is essential to support incremental backups. > Splitting it into separate data and metadata timestamps meets POLA > (users generally want 'modification' to mean that the content changed, > not that the file was renamed). Access timestamps are important for > filespace management (knowing what files aren't used and can therefore > be archived or deleted). Of course access timestamps are usually useless anyway as most (?!!) people will back up their system from time to time.... OOPS ! I never realised before now - dump *doesn't* update the access time. This is *really* excellent :-) Scratch this comment about access times being useless ! > As far as I'm concerned, you still haven't demonstrated any real > need or justification for a creation timestamp. That said, > there's nothing stopping you adding a creation timestamp to the > UFS and providing patches. This should be trivial if added to the directory itself and should be fully ``option''d in the kernel :-) I think it would be useful to some. Of course doing it in the directory would make it a pretty much one-way option, so if the work was done, it would be most appropriate to have the capability included as some sort of newfs/tunefs option. If the format of the directory with this option enabled became / then the code could allow non-creation-time filesystems to be mounted as creation-time filesystems and could just add the timestamp to new files (by asserting that the existence of the '/' means there's a timestamp next). > Peter -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 2:32:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECAF237BDF6 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:32:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com (imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.198]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA08262; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:32:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by imap.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA78947; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA20546; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:32:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <200005250932.CAA20546@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 02:32:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20000524185859.A19573@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <00May25.110340est.115250@border.alcanet.com.au> <20000524185859.A19573@sharmas.dhs.org> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: Arun Sharma , Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: file creation times ? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 24, 6:58pm, Arun Sharma wrote: } Subject: Re: file creation times ? } On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:03:38AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: } > To put it another way, why _should_ FreeBSD store a file creation time? } } 0. I'm tired of seeing people putting "Created: mm/dd/yy" in their documents. When saving a document to "file", many editors will do the equivalent of save document to "file.new" ln "file" "file.bak" mv "file.new" "file" in order to minimize the possibility of losing the document if the editor or the system crashes at just the wrong time. The result of this would be to set the file creation time to the time it was last saved. This won't be very helpful if you are relying on the file creation time to tell you when the *document* was first created. NFS doesn't support this file timestamp, so you lose if the file is stored on another server. The tar archive format doesn't support this timestamp, so a document that is archived using tar and later restored will lose its notion of when it was created. What should the semantics of the creation time be across a backup and restore? Should the original creation time be restored, or should the creation time be the time when the restored copy of the file is written? What about just copying a file? If I make an exact copy of a document, should the two copies have the same or differing creation times? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 2:35:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ada-arm.demophon.com (vpn.iscape.fi [195.170.146.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70BAE37BDF2; Thu, 25 May 2000 02:35:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@ada-arm.demophon.com) Received: (from will@localhost) by ada-arm.demophon.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24197; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:34:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from will) To: nsayer@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls (was Re: cvs commit: src/crypto/openssh sshd_config) References: <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> From: Ville-Pertti Keinonen Date: 25 May 2000 12:34:55 +0300 In-Reply-To: nsayer@sftw.com's message of "25 May 2000 02:09:09 +0300" Message-ID: <86zopft1kw.fsf@ada-arm.demophon.com> Lines: 44 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "Canyonlands" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG nsayer@sftw.com (Nick Sayer) writes: > What we _really_ need is some mechanism to recognize the difference > between a user program and a system library, with an eye towards > granting privileges to trusted libraries without letting those privileges > leak past the library in question. > > I don't claim that this is an _easy_ thing to do, nor that it is a particularly > standard thing to do. (Shared) libraries are currently a userland concept. Doing what you're suggesting would require a special kind of library, controlled by the kernel and called through the kernel. In order to protect from threads and other means of sharing memory, the library would have to use its own memory for everything writable, protected against access by the unprivileged parts of the user program. This would effectively create a new ring of protection somewhere in between the "userland" and "kernel" privileges - a MULTICS concept, as Matthew Dillon noted - with its own stack and memory. On architectures that only implement user/supervisor modes of execution and don't provide segments or other kludges, such library calls would, in a sense, be executed in different processes (protection would require a separate address space - assuming that the library calls wouldn't be running in supervisor mode, in which case the entire mechanism would basically be per-process loadable system calls, also not an acceptable solution). > But the mechanism of having some sort of daemon or service whose > job it is to just do !strcmp(pw->pw_passwd,crypt(foo,pw->pw_passwd)) > is, I think, kind of overkill. It would also have to open the password database using the appropriate privileges...which in the case of a privileged library and multithreaded programs (or just rfork) is unsafe because other threads could also access the database while the library has the file handle open. IMHO a "privileged library" would, to be safe, have to be so well isolated from the rest of the program that the functionality might as well be in a separate process. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 5:18:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F15237BF33 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 05:18:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9C1172.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.156.17.114]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03458 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:17:56 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCFEAC2C for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17807 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:17 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: review request: truncate(1) Message-ID: <20000525141817.A17484@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello! I've written the command-line frontend to truncate(2). I've often needed that since now, and finally I wrote it. I'm sure it's useful. Please review (includes source, manpage + Makefile). http://big.endian.de/FreeBSD/truncate.tar.gz Thanks Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 7: 8: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC21F37C1FF for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id SAA22553; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:10:04 +0200 Message-ID: <392D33C5.D8C19205@i-clue.de> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:08:06 +0200 From: Christoph Sold Organization: i-clue interactive GmbH X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Don Lewis Cc: Arun Sharma , Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: file creation times ? References: <00May25.110340est.115250@border.alcanet.com.au> <20000524185859.A19573@sharmas.dhs.org> <200005250932.CAA20546@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don Lewis wrote: > On May 24, 6:58pm, Arun Sharma wrote: > } Subject: Re: file creation times ? > } On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:03:38AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > } > To put it another way, why _should_ FreeBSD store a file creation time? > } > } 0. I'm tired of seeing people putting "Created: mm/dd/yy" in their documents. > > When saving a document to "file", many editors will do the equivalent of > save document to "file.new" > ln "file" "file.bak" > mv "file.new" "file" > in order to minimize the possibility of losing the document if the editor > or the system crashes at just the wrong time. The result of this would > be to set the file creation time to the time it was last saved. This > won't be very helpful if you are relying on the file creation time to > tell you when the *document* was first created. To answer the question who needs this: Apple Macintosh MFS filesystems (long died since the MacPlus) introduced the file creation date, and it lives on since then in Apples HFS and HFS+ Filesystems. I found the information handy when searching for files. [snippety] > What should the semantics of the creation time be across a backup and > restore? Should the original creation time be restored, or should the > creation time be the time when the restored copy of the file is written? > What about just copying a file? If I make an exact copy of a document, > should the two copies have the same or differing creation times? To solve these questions (along with the one shown above in code), Apple has a "Swap File Info" call. This way, read document; save document to file.tmp; [work on the document, saving to the tempfile as you whish] [when the user say to save now:] save document to file.tmp; exchange file info records of file.tmp and document; {optionally rename file.tmp to document.bak -- remember, file info was swapped before} Now everything else is easy: after a backup, the file creation time is the time the file was originally created (not the restored copy's creation time). A copied file is created when you copy it. Exact copies should have different creation times. That's the way HFS does it -- other opinions welcome. I like it this way. If somebody can dream up an implementation in FFS, I'd love to see it realized (and have some good use for it, since I tend to remember when something started...). Hope this clarifies the topic a little -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 7:42:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8942D37C30E for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:42:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12958; Thu, 25 May 2000 16:46:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Message-Id: <200005251446.QAA12958@numeri.campus.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Alexander Langer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: review request: truncate(1) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:17 +0200." <20000525141817.A17484@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:46:51 +0200 From: Johan Karlsson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:17 +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: >Hello! > >I've written the command-line frontend to truncate(2). >I've often needed that since now, and finally I wrote it. > >I'm sure it's useful. > >Please review (includes source, manpage + Makefile). > >http://big.endian.de/FreeBSD/truncate.tar.gz > >Thanks > Hi Please sort the options in getopt and in the switch-statement. see style(9) for more style info. Please also use -Wall when compiling to catch all warnings (add CFLAGS += -Wall to your Makefile). /Johan K >Alex >-- >I need a new ~/.sig. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 7:52:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7473437C358 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9C1172.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.156.17.114]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15262; Thu, 25 May 2000 16:52:19 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9194AC2C; Thu, 25 May 2000 16:52:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA84682; Thu, 25 May 2000 16:52:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:52:43 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Johan Karlsson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: review request: truncate(1) Message-ID: <20000525165243.A84651@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <20000525141817.A17484@cichlids.cichlids.com> <200005251446.QAA12958@numeri.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005251446.QAA12958@numeri.campus.luth.se>; from k@numeri.campus.luth.se on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 04:46:51PM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Johan Karlsson (k@numeri.campus.luth.se): > Please sort the options in getopt and in the switch-statement. > see style(9) for more style info. > Please also use -Wall when compiling to catch all warnings True - forget about that. What about the other things, I mean non-stylistic but functional/technical stuff? Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 8: 5:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.wmptl.com (mail2.wmptl.com [216.221.73.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9535C37C479; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:05:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from webmaster@wmptl.com) Received: from wmptl.com ([10.0.0.168]) by mail2.wmptl.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04871; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:09:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from webmaster@wmptl.com) Message-ID: <392D4121.D7819B8D@wmptl.com> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:05:05 -0400 From: Nathan Vidican Reply-To: webmaster@wmptl.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3ware ATA RAID driver - second Beta released References: <200005142227.PAA09917@mass.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > A driver for the 3ware family of ATA RAID controllers is available for > FreeBSD-current at http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/RAID > > This driver has all basic functionality, but no management at this time. > > 3ware can be found at http://www.3ware.com. I'd particularly like to > thank Janet LeFleur at 3ware for her support in getting hardware for this > effort. > > Comments, feedback, bug reports etc. will all be gratefully received. > > -- > \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith > \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message I've got the 8port 3ware card; what version of FreeBSD can support it, and how do I patch said driver into the kernel? Does this allow the hardware mirroring as setup by the bios in the 3ware card, or does one still need to use vinum? -- Nathan Vidican webmaster@wmptl.com Windsor Match Plate & Tool Ltd. http://www.wmptl.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 8:31:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from funnel.cisco.com (funnel.cisco.com [161.44.131.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F85E37C5D8 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:31:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (bmcgover-pc.cisco.com [161.44.133.25]) by funnel.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA28293; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bmcgover-pc.cisco.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA48025; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:31:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bmcgover@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com) Message-Id: <200005251531.LAA48025@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> To: adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: file creation times? Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:31:16 -0400 From: Brian McGovern Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 0. I'm tired of seeing people putting "Created: mm/dd/yy" in their docuemnts. Ok, so stop them. > 1. NTFS does it. It's a part of SMB. I suspect that Samba just uses the > last modified time. Just because NTFS does it, doesn't mean its right, or even valid. See below. > 2. The average computer user would expect it. I didn't know that UNIX didn't > keep track of file creation times 5-6 years after I started using it. Well, you just proved how useless a feature it tends to be. The problem with "file creation time" is that its potentially misleading. Thats one of the reasons its called "file modification time". Take, for example, the case where someone pulls up a file, edits one word, and saves it. In those cases, the distinction between creation and modification time _may_ be remotely useful. However, given that the same user could open the file, replace the entire contents, and close it, you have to ask the question... Did they modify the file, or create a new one? The result is that there is no functional difference between deleting the old file and creating the new one, or just overwriting the old one with new data. One could argue, therefore, that the file 'creation' date is the same as the last modification date, as thats when the current contents of the file was 'created'. All-in-all, something along the lines of "inode allocated timestamp" is probably not all that useful. -Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 8:57:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gekko.i-clue.de (server.ms-agentur.de [62.153.134.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DAA37C703 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from so@server.i-clue.de) Received: from i-clue.de (automatix.i-clue.de [192.168.0.112]) by gekko.i-clue.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id TAA23320; Thu, 25 May 2000 19:59:31 +0200 Message-ID: <392D4D6D.68986105@i-clue.de> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:57:33 +0200 From: Christoph Sold Organization: i-clue interactive GmbH X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian McGovern Cc: adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: file creation times? References: <200005251531.LAA48025@bmcgover-pc.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brian McGovern wrote: > > 0. I'm tired of seeing people putting "Created: mm/dd/yy" in their docuemnts. > > Ok, so stop them. > > > 1. NTFS does it. It's a part of SMB. I suspect that Samba just uses the > > last modified time. > > Just because NTFS does it, doesn't mean its right, or even valid. See below. If FFS does it not, it does nto mean it's invalid. > > 2. The average computer user would expect it. I didn't know that UNIX didn't > > keep track of file creation times 5-6 years after I started using it. > > Well, you just proved how useless a feature it tends to be. I disagree. > The problem with "file creation time" is that its potentially misleading. Thats > one of the reasons its called "file modification time". That's one of the reasons why there is both a file creation time as well as a file modification time. > Take, for example, the case where someone pulls up a file, edits one word, > and saves it. In those cases, the distinction between creation and modification > time _may_ be remotely useful. > > However, given that the same user could open the file, replace the entire > contents, and close it, you have to ask the question... Did they modify the > file, or create a new one? The result is that there is no functional difference > between deleting the old file and creating the new one, or just overwriting the > old one with new data. One could argue, therefore, that the file 'creation' > date is the same as the last modification date, as thats when the current > contents of the file was 'created'. > > All-in-all, something along the lines of "inode allocated timestamp" is > probably not all that useful. I disagree. The file creation time will tell when this particular document has been created. Useful for "give me everything created after/before" searches. The file modification time tells me when this document was changed the last time. The file access time tells me when somebody used the file the last time. That's three different times, and all have valid uses. Please see my other posting about this topic, too. -Christoph Sold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 9:29:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 492FC37C830 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:29:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA82990; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:29:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:29:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005251629.JAA82990@apollo.backplane.com> To: Scott Drassinower Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS, permissions and 4.0-RELEASE References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I have several partitions from a 3.2-RELEASE machine mounted via NFS on a :4.0-RELEASE machine. On the 4.0 machine, I am unable to append to a world :writable file (622, for example) that resides on the 3.2 machine. This :did not happen with 3.3. : :Using cat >>/nfspath/file results in "cat: stdout: Permission denied" as :soon as the first line of text tries to get appended. : :I double-checked the mount point permissions on the 4.0 box and they are :the same as on a 3.3 box that does the above with no problem. The mount :point is set to 755. : :Am I missing something very obvious, or have things changed a bit in this :situation with 4.0? : :-- : Scott M. Drassinower scottd@cloud9.net : Cloud 9 Internet White Plains, NY : +1 914 696-4000 / 800 356-5683 http://www.cloud9.net It's gotta be cockpit trouble somewhere. Check your exports file carefully, if you do not tell it to map root to root, it will run root ops as nobody. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 9:43:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from androcles.com (androcles.com [204.57.240.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CB3937C914 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@androcles.com) Received: (from dhh@localhost) by androcles.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA88598 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <24919.959152026@localhost> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:42:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Duane H. Hesser" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone remember the old Pyramid OSX 'universe' command? In the mid-80s, when the "System V" versus "BSD" dichotomy was in full bloom, Pyramid delivered a system with two "universes" available. A user could specify 'universe bsd' and work in a pure BSD environment; 'universe att' placed you in a pure S5 environment (of the time). A user in the BSD environment could "cross the line" by issuing a command like "att ls", or even "att cc ....". The universe was marked by a flag which affected the interpretation of "conditional symbolic links". A separate syscall was available to create conditional symbolic links. Sequent also implemented conditional symbolic links, although I seem to recall that the Pyramid implementation was a bit more complete. How about a 'FreeBSD' universe and a 'Linux' universe? Of course, you need a "complete" set of utilities for each universe (for some definition of "complete"). On 24-May-00 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> 1. You can run /compat/linux/bin/bash and then you in a sort of >> Linux/FreeBSD directory mix. The root directory looks just like your >> FreeBSD root, but changing to a directory that is in /compat/linux, like >> /bin, will put in the linux tree of this directory, but changing to a >> directory that doesn't exist, like /home, will keep you in the FreeBSD > > Well, what do you know - you're right! :) > > I learn something new every day. > >> I've found the Linux emulation on FreeBSD to be one of the best, most >> integrated emulation I've ever seen of anything. I've messed around with >> it quite a bit and discovered quite a few nifty tricks you can do. I've >> never actually tried it, but I think you could probably compile Linux >> binaries under FreeBSD by installing the Linux version of gcc and using >> it. > > There used to be a linux-devel port which did exactly this. Don't > know what became of it, however.. > > - Jordan > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -------------- Duane H. Hesser dhh@androcles.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 10: 5:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470F437B766 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:05:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA67491 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:05:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Proper uses for MFS? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:05:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I'm writing an article on Memory File System, just because I think it's massively cool. We had a thread some time ago on why MFS wasn't useful for certain applications. I searched through the mail archives, and found lots of things MFS wouldn't be right for, but not much of the other way around. What are some good, reasonable use for MFS nowadays? Thanks, ==ml To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 10:21:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.139.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D1D37B705 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:21:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (hak.nat.Awfulhak.org [172.31.0.12]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA81941; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:20:58 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03455; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:20:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200005251720.SAA03455@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Don Lewis Cc: Arun Sharma , Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-Reply-To: Message from Don Lewis of "Thu, 25 May 2000 02:32:35 PDT." <200005250932.CAA20546@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:20:54 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On May 24, 6:58pm, Arun Sharma wrote: > } Subject: Re: file creation times ? > } On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:03:38AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > } > To put it another way, why _should_ FreeBSD store a file creation time? > } > } 0. I'm tired of seeing people putting "Created: mm/dd/yy" in their documents. > > When saving a document to "file", many editors will do the equivalent of > save document to "file.new" > ln "file" "file.bak" > mv "file.new" "file" [.....] Such editors are broken. What if the file is a symlink ? IMHO open() write() write() write() ftruncate() close() is the only way. -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 10:29:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-206-88-224.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.206.88.224]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E21F37B8FA; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02324; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005251731.KAA02324@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: webmaster@wmptl.com Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3ware ATA RAID driver - second Beta released In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 11:05:05 EDT." <392D4121.D7819B8D@wmptl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:31:27 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > A driver for the 3ware family of ATA RAID controllers is available for > > FreeBSD-current at http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/RAID > > > > This driver has all basic functionality, but no management at this time. > > > > 3ware can be found at http://www.3ware.com. I'd particularly like to > > thank Janet LeFleur at 3ware for her support in getting hardware for this > > effort. > > > > Comments, feedback, bug reports etc. will all be gratefully received. > > I've got the 8port 3ware card; what version of FreeBSD can support it, > and how do I patch said driver into the kernel? Does this allow the > hardware mirroring as setup by the bios in the 3ware card, or does one > still need to use vinum? Please take the time to read the announcement and the documentation before asking questions. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 10:31:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 681C037B54D for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:31:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4PI5lL21221; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:05:47 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Michael Lucas Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? Message-ID: <20000525110546.C28594@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org>; from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 01:05:02PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Michael Lucas [000525 10:40] wrote: > Hello, > > I'm writing an article on Memory File System, just because I think > it's massively cool. > > We had a thread some time ago on why MFS wasn't useful for certain > applications. I searched through the mail archives, and found lots of things MFS wouldn't be right for, but not much of the other way around. > > What are some good, reasonable use for MFS nowadays? Providing local space when there's no disk. Providing a "don't care" partition where even though there's high amounts of writing you'll newfs it at reboot anyway. Our installer. :) However with softupdates and the shared vm/buffercache MFS is less useful nowadays. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 10:57:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D71A437B753 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:57:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id KAA83404; Thu, 25 May 2000 10:57:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:57:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> To: Michael Lucas Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Hello, : :I'm writing an article on Memory File System, just because I think :it's massively cool. : :We had a thread some time ago on why MFS wasn't useful for certain :applications. I searched through the mail archives, and found lots of things MFS wouldn't be right for, but not much of the other way around. : :What are some good, reasonable use for MFS nowadays? : :Thanks, :==ml MFS is very useful for diskless workstations (BOOTP boots). You can mount / and /usr and so forth read-only, and then mount R+W MFS partitions for /var, /var/tmp, even /etc to make your diskless workstation look more like a normal machine. MFS can also be used in combination with union mounts to make read-only partitions appear to be writable. I don't particularly like to use MFS for 'large' partitions, mainly because cached data blocks wind up in core memory twice (once in MFS's memory map, and once in the VM page cache). -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 11:16:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0E737B5E6 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mellon@jurai.net) Received: (from mellon@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) id OAA07387; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:16:23 -0400 From: Anatoly Vorobey To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? Message-ID: <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com>; from dillon@apollo.backplane.com on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 10:57:33AM -0700 X-Disclaimer: I was young, I needed the money! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG You, Matthew Dillon, were spotted writing this on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 10:57:33AM -0700: > > I don't particularly like to use MFS for 'large' partitions, mainly > because cached data blocks wind up in core memory twice (once in MFS's > memory map, and once in the VM page cache). You've said this several times in threads on MFS during recent months, and I've always wanted to ask: is that a necessary 'feature' of MFS's architecture, or something which could possibly be fixed without too much hard work? For instance, would it be possible to force VM not to cache MFS pages, etc.? -- Anatoly Vorobey, mellon@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~mellon/ "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly" - G.K.Chesterton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 11:19:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from po4.glue.umd.edu (po4.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 508FA37B65A for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@glue.umd.edu) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (root@z.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.71]) by po4.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13537; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA27515; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27509; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: z.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: "Duane H. Hesser" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 May 2000, Duane H. Hesser wrote: > Anyone remember the old Pyramid OSX 'universe' command? > > In the mid-80s, when the "System V" versus "BSD" dichotomy was in > full bloom, Pyramid delivered a system with two "universes" available. > A user could specify 'universe bsd' and work in a pure BSD environment; > 'universe att' placed you in a pure S5 environment (of the time). > A user in the BSD environment could "cross the line" by issuing a > command like "att ls", or even "att cc ....". The universe was > marked by a flag which affected the interpretation of "conditional > symbolic links". A separate syscall was available to create > conditional symbolic links. > > Sequent also implemented conditional symbolic links, although I > seem to recall that the Pyramid implementation was a bit more > complete. > > How about a 'FreeBSD' universe and a 'Linux' universe? It would be cool if it were extensible and you could strap on a Solaris/SVR4/SVR5, HURD, or even Mac and Windows universes later. Since I mention it, does anyone know the major differences between SCO's new SVR5 (Unixware 7) and traditional SVR4 implementations? Going to SCO's website all I get is market-speak. Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 11:29:30 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B0737B65A for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14580; Thu, 25 May 2000 20:34:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Message-Id: <200005251834.UAA14580@numeri.campus.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Alexander Langer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: review request: truncate(1) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 16:52:43 +0200." <20000525165243.A84651@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:34:17 +0200 From: Johan Karlsson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At Thu, 25 May 2000 16:52:43 +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: >Thus spake Johan Karlsson (k@numeri.campus.luth.se): > >> Please sort the options in getopt and in the switch-statement. >> see style(9) for more style info. >> Please also use -Wall when compiling to catch all warnings > >True - forget about that. > >What about the other things, I mean non-stylistic but >functional/technical stuff? > I think it looks just fine and the program works like I expect it to. However, the man page does not mention that one have to also specify the wanted size of the file. /Johan K > >Alex > >-- >I need a new ~/.sig. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 11:37:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C4BD537B5CE for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:37:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 34807 invoked by uid 1001); 25 May 2000 18:37:23 +0000 (GMT) To: brian@Awfulhak.org Cc: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org, peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: file creation times ? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 18:20:54 +0100" References: <200005251720.SAA03455@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:37:22 +0200 Message-ID: <34805.959279842@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Such editors are broken. What if the file is a symlink ? IMHO > open() write() write() write() ftruncate() close() is the only way. If that is the only way, then emacs is of course broken. (And I disagree - I use emacs every day...) Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 11:45:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23CD37B6E8 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 11:45:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA67888; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:45:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) From: Michael Lucas Message-Id: <200005251845.OAA67888@blackhelicopters.org> Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? In-Reply-To: <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> from Anatoly Vorobey at "May 25, 2000 2:16:23 pm" To: mellon@pobox.com (Anatoly Vorobey) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You, Matthew Dillon, were spotted writing this on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 10:57:33AM -0700: > > > > I don't particularly like to use MFS for 'large' partitions, mainly > > because cached data blocks wind up in core memory twice (once in MFS's > > memory map, and once in the VM page cache). > > You've said this several times in threads on MFS during recent months, > and I've always wanted to ask: is that a necessary 'feature' of MFS's > architecture, or something which could possibly be fixed without > too much hard work? For instance, would it be possible to force > VM not to cache MFS pages, etc.? It's my understanding that VM caching of MFS is a feature, not a bug. See /usr/share/doc/papers/memfs.ascii.gz . ==ml To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 12:52:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [63.67.141.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A692637B67F for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:52:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08894; Thu, 25 May 2000 15:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:52:01 -0400 (EDT) From: To: Anatoly Vorobey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Matthew Dillon Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? In-Reply-To: <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 May 2000, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: > and I've always wanted to ask: is that a necessary 'feature' of MFS's > architecture, or something which could possibly be fixed without > too much hard work? For instance, would it be possible to force > VM not to cache MFS pages, etc.? Not being an expert on MFS, I think the "problem" is that MFS was created before our VM and Buffer cache was merged. And once that happened MFS was never made to take advantage of that fact. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tommorow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 12:53:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C682B37B72E for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01959; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:56:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: "Duane H. Hesser" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 09:42:51 PDT." Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:56:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1956.959284596@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyone remember the old Pyramid OSX 'universe' command? Yes, I do. It was very evil. :) The way Apollo solved this problem was much more elegant and general purpose and one of my favorite soapbox topics: Variant symlinks. Rather than using the "universe" concept for getting at a different command set, Apollo gave you the ability to expand variable names inside of symlinks, e.g. "ln -s /bin.${OSTYPE} /bin" would cause /bin to point to /bin.sysv if OSTYPE=sysv or /bin.bsd if OSTYPE=bsd. Using that, you could create something very similar to a Pyramid dual-universe environment with the added bonus of also being able to use it for localization purposes, selecting different documentation sets, whatever. Of course, every time we've had this discussion in the past, people usually jump in and say that the environment variable space is insufficiently powerful for this and what we really need is something more like VMS logical names where you can have system-wide, group-wide and user-specific variables which then are applied to the variant symlink expansion. At that point, everyone generally agrees that it's too hard to do and we should put off the entire concept for another couple of years. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 13:11:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2866437B542 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:11:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12v3yJ-000HtT-0X; Thu, 25 May 2000 21:11:12 +0100 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12v3yC-000I8b-00; Thu, 25 May 2000 21:11:04 +0100 Content-Length: 1778 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1956.959284596@localhost> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:11:04 +0100 (BST) From: Duncan Barclay To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Duane H.Hesser Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 25-May-00 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Anyone remember the old Pyramid OSX 'universe' command? > > Yes, I do. It was very evil. :) > > The way Apollo solved this problem was much more elegant and general > purpose and one of my favorite soapbox topics: Variant symlinks. Gosh is that the time...must be going soon... [snip] > Of course, every time we've had this discussion in the past, people > usually jump in and say that the environment variable space is > insufficiently powerful for this and what we really need is something > more like VMS logical names where you can have system-wide, group-wide > and user-specific variables which then are applied to the variant > symlink expansion. > > At that point, everyone generally agrees that it's too hard to do and > we should put off the entire concept for another couple of years. :) I have in my archives some code from the "person" who usually brings up the logical name stuff (the code implements them). However, there is also this snippet: PS: if you need the changes to namei() for variant symbolic links, ask me nicely, and I will disentangle them from my other changes to namei() for layering fixes, Unicode, and alternate namespace support (used by a modified (CIFS enhanced) Samba server which needs to have the DOS short name remain constant across directory searches). So who wants to ask him for them? > - Jordan Duncan, with tongue firmly in left cheek. --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 13:22:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E40537B6B6 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA84015; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:22:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:22:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005252022.NAA84015@apollo.backplane.com> To: Anatoly Vorobey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :You, Matthew Dillon, were spotted writing this on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 10:57:33AM -0700: :> :> I don't particularly like to use MFS for 'large' partitions, mainly :> because cached data blocks wind up in core memory twice (once in MFS's :> memory map, and once in the VM page cache). : :You've said this several times in threads on MFS during recent months, :and I've always wanted to ask: is that a necessary 'feature' of MFS's :architecture, or something which could possibly be fixed without :too much hard work? For instance, would it be possible to force :VM not to cache MFS pages, etc.? : :-- :Anatoly Vorobey, The double caching is a consequence of MFS's 'physical media' being the mmap() rather then real physical media. It would be difficult to fix, and probably not worth the effort. MFS's only advantage is that the double-caching tends to keep pages in-core longer, and you have less 'real' physical I/O because things like write-behind and buffer cache flushes are doing nothing more then flusing from the kernel's main VM page cache into MFS's memory map. If you have enough memory not to care about the double-caching issue, then MFS will work fine. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 13:23:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D925337BE25 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02191; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Duncan Barclay Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Duane H. Hesser" Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 21:11:04 BST." Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:23:09 -0700 Message-ID: <2188.959286189@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I have in my archives some code from the "person" who usually brings up > the logical name stuff (the code implements them). AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE. OK, I think this thread will probably die in *record* time now. I'm certainly running for the hills as we speak. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 13:30:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82FA237BDCC for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:30:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4PL4k929591; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:04:46 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? Message-ID: <20000525140446.J28594@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> <200005252022.NAA84015@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200005252022.NAA84015@apollo.backplane.com>; from dillon@apollo.backplane.com on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 01:22:40PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Matthew Dillon [000525 13:58] wrote: > > :You, Matthew Dillon, were spotted writing this on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 10:57:33AM -0700: > :> > :> I don't particularly like to use MFS for 'large' partitions, mainly > :> because cached data blocks wind up in core memory twice (once in MFS's > :> memory map, and once in the VM page cache). > : > :You've said this several times in threads on MFS during recent months, > :and I've always wanted to ask: is that a necessary 'feature' of MFS's > :architecture, or something which could possibly be fixed without > :too much hard work? For instance, would it be possible to force > :VM not to cache MFS pages, etc.? > : > :-- > :Anatoly Vorobey, > > The double caching is a consequence of MFS's 'physical media' being > the mmap() rather then real physical media. It would be difficult > to fix, and probably not worth the effort. > > MFS's only advantage is that the double-caching tends to keep pages > in-core longer, and you have less 'real' physical I/O because things > like write-behind and buffer cache flushes are doing nothing more > then flusing from the kernel's main VM page cache into MFS's memory > map. > > If you have enough memory not to care about the double-caching issue, > then MFS will work fine. y'know... We could do a really good job of a disk backed MFS by having a mount flag for the syncer to ignore a mount point as well as marking it async. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 13:40:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EB6D37BE1D for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 13:40:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115206>; Fri, 26 May 2000 06:40:37 +1000 Content-return: prohibited From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-reply-to: <34805.959279842@verdi.nethelp.no>; from sthaug@nethelp.no on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 04:37:48AM +1000 To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00May26.064037est.115206@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200005251720.SAA03455@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> <34805.959279842@verdi.nethelp.no> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 06:40:36 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2000-May-26 04:37:48 +1000, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >> Such editors are broken. What if the file is a symlink ? IMHO >> open() write() write() write() ftruncate() close() is the only way. > >If that is the only way, then emacs is of course broken. (And I >disagree - I use emacs every day...) The behaviour in emacs is (of course) customisable. Check out 'info emacs Backup Copying'. You can pick whether the backup is the physical original, or a copy of it. (Emacs also understands symlinks, hardlinks and differences in ownership). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 14:15:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from alcanet.com.au (mail.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC3637B5E9 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 14:15:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremyp@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <115206>; Fri, 26 May 2000 07:15:23 +1000 Content-return: prohibited From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-reply-to: <200005250821.JAA00580@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>; from brian@Awfulhak.org on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 07:03:56PM +1000 To: Brian Somers Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <00May26.071523est.115206@border.alcanet.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <200005250821.JAA00580@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:15:22 +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2000-May-25 19:03:56 +1000, Brian Somers wrote: >Of course access timestamps are usually useless anyway as most (?!!) >people will back up their system from time to time.... OOPS ! I >never realised before now - dump *doesn't* update the access time. This is because dump bypasses the filesystem (it reads the underlying device). Therefore the filesystem doesn't see the access. Other backup tools (tar, pax, cpio etc) access the files through the FS amd therefore alter the access time. Some have the ability to reset the access time afterwards - but that updates the change time, which is probably worse. This is probably good justification for a O_NOTACCESS (ie, this isn't a real access) flag on open(2) to request that the access time isn't updated. In general, access time is probably the least important of the timestamps. This is reflected in the treatment of access time updates - unlike all other inode updates, they are not written synchronously (non-softupdates) and don't affect soft-updates write-ordering (so atime updates can be lost). As I see it, the major use of access times would be for a true hierarchical storage manager (which transparently migrated un- referenced files to a tape-library or similar). It's also good for things like deleting `old' files in /tmp. >> As far as I'm concerned, you still haven't demonstrated any real >> need or justification for a creation timestamp. That said, >> there's nothing stopping you adding a creation timestamp to the >> UFS and providing patches. > >This should be trivial if added to the directory itself and should be >fully ``option''d in the kernel :-) I think the kernel changes would be fairly trivial, but there'd need to be fairly extensive userland changes. And you'd need to change various archive formats (tar, dump, ...) to support it. >If the format of the directory with this option enabled became >/ then the code could allow non-creation-time >filesystems to be mounted as creation-time filesystems and could >just add the timestamp to new files (by asserting that the existence >of the '/' means there's a timestamp next). I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you suggesting that the d_name begins '/XXXX' where XXXX is a binary timestamp? This sounds horrible. If we did go down this path, my preference would be something like: union direct { struct direct_old o; struct direct_new n; }; struct direct_old { u_int32_t d_ino; /* inode number of entry */ u_int16_t d_reclen; /* length of this record */ u_int8_t d_type; /* file type, see below */ u_int8_t d_namlen; /* length of string in d_name */ char d_name[MAXNAMLEN + 1];/* name with length <= MAXNAMLEN */ }; struct direct_new { u_int32_t d_ino; /* inode number of entry */ u_int16_t d_reclen; /* length of this record */ u_int8_t d_type; /* file type, see below */ u_int8_t d_namlen; /* length of string in d_name */ u_int32_t d_crtime; /* Entry creation time */ u_int32_t d_crtimensec; /* Entry creation time */ char d_name[MAXNAMLEN + 1];/* name with length <= MAXNAMLEN */ }; Where the top bit of d_type choses between them (if set then it's a new style entry). Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 16:43: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5CD37B7B3; Thu, 25 May 2000 16:42:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA246296; Thu, 25 May 2000 19:42:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> References: <20000524090528.ECF641CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> <20000524022840.C79861@freebsd.org> <200005241446.KAA60257@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524075921.A53829@freebsd.org> <200005241709.NAA60822@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <20000524105558.A3407@freebsd.org> <200005241853.OAA61188@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> <392C3E40.E0D8974D@vangelderen.org> <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:43:01 -0400 To: nsayer@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls [or pkey's?] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On May 24/2000, Nick Sayer scared people when he wrote: >What we _really_ need is some mechanism to recognize the >difference between a user program and a system library, >with an eye towards granting privileges to trusted libraries >without letting those privileges leak past the library in >question. > >I don't claim that this is an _easy_ thing to do, nor that >it is a particularly standard thing to do. > > [...] > >User authentication is only one example. There are many >things that only root can do where letting non-root do >the job is not dangerous, but granting non-root permission >in a general way is. As long as the floor is open to non-standard ideas, let me reminisce about a feature from a different operating system which started with an "M"... It was called program keys, or 'pkey's. When a program was running, there was this pkey attribute (in addition to uid and gid). The pkey was a 16-character value (if I remember right). Each executable had a pkey associated with it, and that value became the current pkey when the program started to execute. Users could change the pkey value of any executable they had access to, but they could only pick values that started with their userid. "System" pkeys were values that started with an '*', and most of those values could only be set by a privileged userid. The default pkey for all executables was '*exec'. There was a system call which allowed a program to change the value of the active pkey. Any program at any time could change the program key to '*exec'. The system call had a table of what which active pkey's were allowed to switch to some other pkey (with a specific list of acceptable values it could switch to). You could permit files to a pkey. So, you could: permit /etc/passwd read pkey=*pw chflag /usr/bin/login pkey *login and then have the 'pushpkey' system routine allow pkey=*login to change the active pkey to *pw. When login starts to execute, the system would change the active pkey to '*login'. While login was running, it could call the pushpkey routine to switch the pkey to *pw, read from /etc/passwd, and then pop the pkey back to *login (or change it to *exec, if it didn't think it needed *login for anything anymore). I'm skipping a lot of details, of course, and it certainly would not be a "standard thing" to do, but it was a very very useful capability. You could have some password-reading routine in a library, and that would be fine because that routine could only PUSH the needed pkey if the calling program had a pkey which allowed that *pw to be set. This is also how things like games were able to keep system-wide score-files. Any user program could use this facility (they were only limited to the values of pkeys they were allowed to 'chflag' to). So, userid 'drosehn' could: permit ~/scorefile write pkey=drosehn:mygame chflag ~/mygame pkey drosehn:mygame and anyone playing the game could write to that file, but only thru the game. And the game, while active, would only have access to files permitted to that specific pkey, instead of all files owned by that userid. I am not sure how one would map this into a distributed computing environment, with NFS, AFS, and other networked file systems shared by many different machines (with different userid spaces). I think it'd be a cool project if it could be done, though. Anyone interested in extra credit points is invited to try and guess which operating system THIS idea is from... --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 17:23:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B2837BE1A for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:23:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA84903; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:23:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:23:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005260023.RAA84903@apollo.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> <200005252022.NAA84015@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525140446.J28594@fw.wintelcom.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :y'know... : :We could do a really good job of a disk backed MFS by having a mount :flag for the syncer to ignore a mount point as well as marking it :async. : :-Alfred Yup, that would be perfect for 'vn', especially swap-backed vn. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 17:33: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D19D137B716 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4Q17Jc11721; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:07:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:07:19 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? Message-ID: <20000525180718.N28594@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> <200005252022.NAA84015@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525140446.J28594@fw.wintelcom.net> <200005260023.RAA84903@apollo.backplane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200005260023.RAA84903@apollo.backplane.com>; from dillon@apollo.backplane.com on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 05:23:06PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Matthew Dillon [000525 17:57] wrote: > > :y'know... > : > :We could do a really good job of a disk backed MFS by having a mount > :flag for the syncer to ignore a mount point as well as marking it > :async. > : > :-Alfred > > Yup, that would be perfect for 'vn', especially swap-backed vn. Unfortunatly we're out of mount flags. Mike Smith had some interesting ideas to extend the mount structure, I'll see what works. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 17:43:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net (smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net [209.3.218.43]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D34137BE17 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:43:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babkin@bellatlantic.net) Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-198-135-12.bellatlantic.net [151.198.135.12]) by smtp02.teb1.iconnet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA08726; Thu, 25 May 2000 20:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <392DC8B1.2B12F3DB@bellatlantic.net> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:43:29 -0400 From: Sergey Babkin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-19990626-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: ru, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Howard Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG James Howard wrote: > > Since I mention it, does anyone know the major differences between SCO's > new SVR5 (Unixware 7) and traditional SVR4 implementations? Going to > SCO's website all I get is market-speak. As I've been told it was named SVR5 to mark inclusion of enterprise-level features (and yes, for marketing reasons): - better CPU scalability with modular support for different platforms (initially UW7 was up to 8 CPUs well and 12 CPUs so-so, now up to 16 CPUs well) - support for over 4GB of memory - support for large areas of shared memory attached to great many processes - multi-path I/O support (a disk can be connected to 2 or more SCSI buses) - integrated volume manager (from Veritas, terrible thing, and often broken) - hot-swappable disks - hot-pluggable PCI cards - high availablilty clustering (Reliant from Veritas, terrible thing, and sometimes broken) Internally it had significant extensions in the multiprocessor support, memory and re-designed I/O subsystem. -SB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 17:46:19 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A49137BE23; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:46:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA46410; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:46:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:46:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: nsayer@freebsd.org Cc: "Jeroen C. van Gelderen" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls (was Re: cvs commit: src/crypto/openssh sshd_config) In-Reply-To: <392C60F1.91EDC30D@sftw.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 24 May 2000, Nick Sayer wrote: > What we _really_ need is some mechanism to recognize the difference > between a user program and a system library, with an eye towards > granting privileges to trusted libraries without letting those privileges > leak past the library in question. Let's think about this for a minute. In order to do that securely, the unprivileged code should not be able to read from, or write to, memory used by the "privileged library". If you can read from it you can potentially snarf the contents of buffers as it reads privileged files, and if you can write you can probably hijack it and cause arbitrary code to be executed with privileges. So the library needs to run in its own memory protection domain. Except for the matter of co-scheduling, you're basically talking about a separate process communicating via IPC. This is what has already been suggested :-) > User authentication is only one example. There are many things that > only root can do where letting non-root do the job is not dangerous, > but granting non-root permission in a general way is. Another good > example is daemons that must bind listening sockets <1024, but don't > need root otherwise. The entire binary must be suid up to the bind, at > which point the program may renounce the suid bit > (setreuid(getuid(),getuid());). Wouldn't it be more secure if a > library could selectively grant low ports to _selected_ non-suid > programs (perhaps with a config file)? This is an example of a capability. Capabilities provide elevated kernel privileges to processes in discrete chunks, i.e. as a subset of what root can do. The TrustedBSD project (led by Robert Watson) is developing code to provide POSIX.1e capabilities to FreeBSD (among other nifty things). Your other example doesn't fit well into the capabilities model, because authenticating against private credential databases (e.g. /etc/master.passwd) is a privileged userland operation, not a kernel one. Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 18: 1:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2760B37B581; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:01:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA47659; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:01:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:01:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Garance A Drosihn Cc: nsayer@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls [or pkey's?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 25 May 2000, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > It was called program keys, or 'pkey's. When a program > was running, there was this pkey attribute (in addition > to uid and gid). The pkey was a 16-character value (if > I remember right). Each executable had a pkey associated > with it, and that value became the current pkey when the > program started to execute. Users could change the pkey There's an inherent security weakness to beware of in this system under UNIX: (non-set[ug]id) processes are inherently untrustable things - for example you can attach to the running program with a debugger and make it run your own code no matter what was already there. So you'd have to realise that allowing a particular process to read/write from a file means that anyone who can attach a debugger to the process can read/write however they want, not just using the interface defined in the on-disk instance of that program. The alternative is to prevent attaching debuggers to any process which runs with one of these extended credentials, like we do for set[ug]id binaries (this is probably the sensible solution). Such a system could probably be implemented fairly easily within the framework of the "extended attributes"/ACL system already in FreeBSD along with what's being developed for TrustedBSD. Specifically, you'd store a credential ("pkey") as an extended attribute on a binary, and have an ACL system which knows about these credentials as well as whatever other access policies you want (POSIX.1e ACLs, traditional UNIX file permissions, etc). One of the TrustedBSD design goals is to allow alternative security policies to be dynamically loaded so that you aren't constrained to e.g. only use the "POSIX.1e" style of ACL, or whatever policy is hardwired into FreeBSD. Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 18:13:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from bsdhome.dyndns.org (rdu25-18-195.nc.rr.com [24.25.18.195]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735AD37B581 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:13:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd@bsdhome.com) Received: from vger.bsdhome.com (vger [192.168.220.2]) by bsdhome.dyndns.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20482 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 21:15:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bsd@bsdhome.com) Received: from localhost (bsd@localhost) by vger.bsdhome.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10187; Thu, 25 May 2000 21:13:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bsd@vger.bsdhome.com) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:13:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Dean To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: getdirentries() and /proc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a program that needs to find another particular process if it is running. It used to do this by grovelling though /proc/pid/status, looking for the particular program name. Essentially, I would do the following: stat ( "/proc", &sb ); fd = open ( "/proc", O_RDONLY ); while (!done) { n = getdirentries ( fd, buf, sb.st_blksize, &basep ); /* check each /proc/pid/status file */ } It seems as though stat() used to return a non-zero value for st_blksize for /proc, but these days it does not (it's hard for me to tell exactly when this happened, perhaps somewhere around revision 1.73 of src/sys/kern/vfs_vnops.c, but I'm not positive). The man page for getdirentries() says: int getdirentries(int fd, char *buf, int nbytes, long *basep) "The nbytes argument must be greater than or equal to the block size associated with the file, see stat(2). Some filesys- tems may not support these functions with buffers smaller than this size." So ... what are we supposed to use for this? For special filesystems like /proc, is any old value that is sufficiently large enough to hold a few struct dirent's considered to be OK? Should I not use 'getdirentries()', and opt instead for 'opendir()' and 'readdir()'? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks, -Brian -- Brian Dean bsd@FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 18:28:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BE437B581 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA85153; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:28:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:28:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005260128.SAA85153@apollo.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> <200005252022.NAA84015@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525140446.J28594@fw.wintelcom.net> <200005260023.RAA84903@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525180718.N28594@fw.wintelcom.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :Unfortunatly we're out of mount flags. Mike Smith had some interesting :ideas to extend the mount structure, I'll see what works. : :-- :-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] What about making it a tunefs flag? That is, make it filesystem-based rather then mount-based. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 18:32:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F8B37B7E2 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id SAA85214; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:32:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:32:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005260132.SAA85214@apollo.backplane.com> To: Alfred Perlstein , Anatoly Vorobey , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> <200005251757.KAA83404@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525141623.D6776@sasami.jurai.net> <200005252022.NAA84015@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525140446.J28594@fw.wintelcom.net> <200005260023.RAA84903@apollo.backplane.com> <20000525180718.N28594@fw.wintelcom.net> <200005260128.SAA85153@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ::Unfortunatly we're out of mount flags. Mike Smith had some interesting ::ideas to extend the mount structure, I'll see what works. :: ::-- ::-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] : : What about making it a tunefs flag? That is, make it filesystem-based : rather then mount-based. : : -Matt Scrap that last thought. A tunefs flag is silly for something like this :-) Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 20:54:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1992F37B9C8 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 20:54:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanepp@sfu.ca) Received: from fraser.sfu.ca (vanepp@fraser.sfu.ca [142.58.101.25]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1/SFU-5.0H) with ESMTP id e4Q3sJt22536 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 20:54:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Van Epp Received: (from vanepp@localhost) by fraser.sfu.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2/SFU-5.0C) id UAA19087 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 25 May 2000 20:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200005260354.UAA19087@fraser.sfu.ca> Subject: The proper way to get a beep out of the kernel after a halt? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:54:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Because I'm running a couple of boxes headless, I have modified kern_shutdown.c to halt (rather than boot) on alt-ctl-delete and once the shutdown is complete beep three times via the speaker to indicate (in the absence of a tube) that it is now OK for the person to power down. Currently (out of ignorance) I am doing this ugly kludge to get beeps. I expect there is a proper way to get a beep from code in the kernel (although printf isn't it, the kernel version of printf don't seem to do no beeps!). Would some kind person enlighten me please? If there is interest (or even someone willing to add the change even if you don't see a need for it) I'll set this up as a kernel option (probably HEADLESS) which changes the SIGINT to SIGUSR1 in the signal to init to change the reboot to a halt and set the beep stuff up properly (which I expect isn't fiddling the bits directly althought this seems to work just fine which is all I currently care about) since I expect there are other folks running production machines headless (or more correctly tubeless) who would like the functionality too. While I'm here I should check that I am correct and that alt-cntl-delete is the only thing that calls shutdown_nice() as it appears to me? void shutdown_nice() { /* Send a signal to init(8) and have it shutdown the world */ if (initproc != NULL) { /* halt instead of reboot! */ psignal(initproc, SIGUSR1); ... static void shutdown_halt(void *junk, int howto) { /* + needs to go! */ #define TIMER_FREQ 1193182 u_int timer_freq = TIMER_FREQ; unsigned int divisor; /* - needs to go */ if (howto & RB_HALT) { printf("\n"); printf("The operating system has halted.\n"); printf("Please press any key to reboot.\n\n"); /* + needs to go */ /* set up timer2 for a 1 khz tone */ divisor = timer_freq / 1000; outb(TIMER_MODE, TIMER_SEL2 | ((TIMER_SQWAVE | TIMER_16BIT) & 0x 3f)); outb(TIMER_CNTR2, (divisor & 0xff)); /* send lo byte */ outb(TIMER_CNTR2, (divisor >> 8)); /* send hi byte */ /* turn the speaker on and off three times */ outb(IO_PPI, inb(IO_PPI) | PPI_SPKR); DELAY(1000 * 200); /* 2/10th second */ outb(IO_PPI, inb(IO_PPI) & ~PPI_SPKR); DELAY(1000 * 200); /* 2/10th second */ outb(IO_PPI, inb(IO_PPI) | PPI_SPKR); DELAY(1000 * 200); /* 2/10th second */ outb(IO_PPI, inb(IO_PPI) & ~PPI_SPKR); DELAY(1000 * 200); /* 2/10th second */ outb(IO_PPI, inb(IO_PPI) | PPI_SPKR); DELAY(1000 * 200); /* 2/10th second */ outb(IO_PPI, inb(IO_PPI) & ~PPI_SPKR); /* - needs to go */ switch (cngetc()) { case -1: /* No console, just die */ cpu_halt(); /* NOTREACHED */ default: Peter Van Epp / Operations and Technical Support Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C. Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu May 25 21:25:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sasi.com (sasi.com [164.164.56.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F97C37B71A for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 21:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pmk@sasi.com) Received: from samar (sasi.com [164.164.56.2]) by sasi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02572 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:53:28 +0530 (IST) Received: from pcd134.sasi.com ([10.0.16.134]) by sasi.com; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:53:27 +0000 (IST) Received: from localhost (pmk@localhost) by pcd134.sasi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02457 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:56:42 +0530 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:56:42 +0530 (IST) From: Mohana Krishna Penumetcha To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: help needed!!! In-Reply-To: <200005260354.UAA19087@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, i am planning to develope a freebsd driver for a network adapter card. i checked the freebsd.org for driver specific information, but couldn't find any. can someone give pointers to either books or resources on the internet. thank you in advance, mohan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 0:30:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from io.dreamscape.com (io.dreamscape.com [206.64.128.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB9C37B88A for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 00:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from halstead@dreamscape.com) Received: from halste07 (sA16-p23.dreamscape.com [209.217.195.150]) by io.dreamscape.com (8.9.3/8.8.4) with SMTP id DAA15332 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 03:29:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Dreamscape-Track-A: sA16-p23.dreamscape.com [209.217.195.150] X-Dreamscape-Track-B: Fri, 26 May 2000 03:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012d01bfc6e4$7fa312e0$96c3d9d1@halste07> From: "James Halstead" To: Subject: Linux emu question Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 03:32:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I noticed some people talking about the linux emulation and how good/bad it can be and I just wondered, does anybody here have any experiences with the vmware for linux software? I have been thinking of buying this, for those one or two windows programs that I need to use now and then. Just wondering, James. ------------------------------------------------------- ICQ #19675056 Public key available at: http://www.dreamscape.com/halstead/jh.asc ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 0:54:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from online.thecia.ie (online.thecia.ie [159.134.244.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B70D37B85D; Fri, 26 May 2000 00:54:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from careilly@thecia.ie) Received: from thecia.ie ([195.218.110.130]) by online.thecia.ie (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA00408; Fri, 26 May 2000 07:52:12 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by thecia.ie (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10560; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:56:52 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from careilly@thecia.ie) Message-Id: <200005260856.JAA10560@thecia.ie> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 02/28/2000 To: "James Halstead" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux emu question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 May 2000 03:32:06 EDT." <012d01bfc6e4$7fa312e0$96c3d9d1@halste07> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_2041810484P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:56:52 +0100 From: Colman Reilly Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --==_Exmh_2041810484P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was asking this yesterday as well ... /usr/ports/emulators/vmware2 is a pretty new port as far as I can make out. I had to upgrade to 4.0-STABLE to make it work on my machine, but it does work, network, sound and all. Seems stable to me. You also *need* the linuxprocfs port installed and mounted for the thing to work. Currently I have it running Win 98. Thanks to everyone who put in the work to make this work! Colman [I've cc'ed this to -questions in the vague hope that future searches of the mail archive will pick it up ... I only worked this out by looking on freshports!] I noticed some people talking about the linux emulation and how good/bad i t can be and I just wondered, does anybody here have any experiences with th e vmware for linux software? I have been thinking of buying this, for those one or two windows programs that I need to use now and then. Just wondering, James. ------------------------------------------------------- ICQ #19675056 Public key available at: http://www.dreamscape.com/halstead/jh.asc ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --==_Exmh_2041810484P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.1.1 02/28/2000 owGlVDuMHEUQ9Z0FEisNwilyUDZClqzdnsX4bN/xsbkDpEUIAXcI8Qt6Zmp3+nam a+jPzk2GHFiECEIEQo4RCQGIAJwCEQkJIUSkTogQ1T0zdo5ntZqe6qpXXfVe1yfJ 6a3tM1+/1t2y3/zwyNavf7tH56K2K7Fz9ZLAk7rcFc++eUDaoXazo67BPXB44tKm kko/A3kpjUX3nLczaXOlkkkyWUArLUi7VnoFrlQWOrQOTSE7tkKLVQVCCEi9NWlD xtkUa19JR8amm7qVBi8BR8lk0hh0rgONLQTHZMLxS2kCzAJyqaGWawTyTvB3KQtw BL5ZGVlgWF4W89nh0Qv7r74UvqKvctCSWQNxbJdMapmXSuMUMs/ovFkQ2ugx5ayu X1jyugAZ/lUl4BCxtmCdzKqYpUYRyn6HPO9bgosasbjIlSNUSvuTxlC+tLEAUJrj qgp7uJqBHa+XZKI7Nyu0jJJJSBxRD7wx3PqqiwVuYgHGax0c31Yadq8JOCqlXttw FNyg6UgjtCVB40O+CBxLDrixB5GTYDoXM1BVSx1W7y0ucII8v8BHij6MOPvQM3mK tB2xNnLlEUpqApB0sPTOGwSL0uQlN4+WwS2kUhUEm2LQVjHpjcrXySRU4JuogAXT wJWFo4wpmUvIOqiIonyYpqVBW0aZnPsgnBLCswBNTuUcZalGaJCaQIasYpTMAsw9 AqCXFxcRu15SCyuiIs1YMGoAdMM7iCrD6LeAY2+DXHSBBotprw2pu4yKDkq29Yyw BfCkQaNQ50E9ypWcfADE4d0LO1LdH8rS0gXT9ZHZDFFHCfSVL1mT3XiFpoNGyI54 geVgaokT6oJaVpghlj5rM/LCLULsb4RFblcbi+KmaHGvja/cL5AzTYP1zrfBLmu0 YnCa/b9nZOrgDXjiqd0rV3fmO1cG2+s+q1QOa+SBsGGZxJsk3d6wXTrX7KVp27ai MMgF5bJBkVOdlnzBHMoiPS4Fz5sHPWD/ixhHBG9p6zObG5XxkLMY7meQcJwcx2QK qunGywZx//BFQWY1BEa2z/v7sUGwmNliVsp8jcaeHy9OlE1/O3hmWCtXOB7h4+un H9oKk3YcxGe2v3v81FefvX/jzj/v/vnTzfn2p93Zp3/+8eHn16e+fHL++e+/Pfb9 5T9+Sb64vf9Revuvu//+Bw== =iOIi -----END PGP MESSAGE----- --==_Exmh_2041810484P-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 1:25: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (storm.freebsd.org.uk [194.242.139.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A0F37B85D for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 01:24:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (hak.nat.Awfulhak.org [172.31.0.12]) by storm.FreeBSD.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA40519; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:24:54 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00435; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:00:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200005260700.IAA00435@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: sthaug@nethelp.no Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org, peter.jeremy@ALCATEL.COM.AU, hackers@FreeBSD.org, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-Reply-To: Message from sthaug@nethelp.no of "Thu, 25 May 2000 20:37:22 +0200." <34805.959279842@verdi.nethelp.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:00:55 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Such editors are broken. What if the file is a symlink ? IMHO > > open() write() write() write() ftruncate() close() is the only way. > > If that is the only way, then emacs is of course broken. (And I > disagree - I use emacs every day...) Now there's an argument waiting to happen :-) So if you create a file and make it writable by me and I edit it, it becomes mine ? Good ol' emacs ! I would guess that in real life it *must* be smart enough not to do this (I don't have access to emacs from here right now). > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 1:27:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [158.36.41.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E7D1A37BEF7 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 01:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 47682 invoked by uid 1001); 26 May 2000 08:27:02 +0000 (GMT) To: brian@Awfulhak.org Cc: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org, peter.jeremy@ALCATEL.COM.AU, hackers@FreeBSD.org, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: file creation times ? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 May 2000 08:00:55 +0100" References: <200005260700.IAA00435@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.34.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:27:02 +0200 Message-ID: <47680.959329622@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Such editors are broken. What if the file is a symlink ? IMHO > > > open() write() write() write() ftruncate() close() is the only way. > > > > If that is the only way, then emacs is of course broken. (And I > > disagree - I use emacs every day...) > > Now there's an argument waiting to happen :-) > > So if you create a file and make it writable by me and I edit it, it > becomes mine ? Good ol' emacs ! I would guess that in real life it > *must* be smart enough not to do this (I don't have access to emacs > from here right now). emacs is of course much smarter, and it's also customizable. I was just reacting to the blanket statement that "open() write() write() write() ftruncate() close() is the only way". Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 1:42:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.111.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1A137B73B; Fri, 26 May 2000 01:42:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at) Received: from [128.130.111.10] (nunki [128.130.111.10]) by vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16707; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:42:08 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:42:07 +0200 (MET DST) From: Gerald Pfeifer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, ache@freebsd.org, peter@freebsd.org Cc: Wei Dai Subject: ncurses.h and #define trace _nc_trace Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The following change to /usr/include/ncurses.h which adds a #define trace _nc_trace causes problems with our Wine port and probably further software: 1.1.1.3 (vendor branch) Wed May 24 10:44:45 2000 UTC by peter CVS Tags: v5_0_19991023, HEAD; Branch: NCURSES Bring in the fix for the trace/_nc_trace issue, without breaking the vendor branching. The author has fixed this also so we can do this safely. 1.1.1.2.2.1 Tue May 23 13:42:17 2000 UTC by ache Branch: RELENG_4 MFC: trace -> _nc_trace For example, consider the following snippet: void _nc_trace() { } #define trace _nc_trace main() { long trace=0; if( &trace != &_nc_trace ) printf("Okay\n"); } As another example, consider Wine, where this change causes: ../libwine.so: undefined reference to `__GET_DEBUGGING__nc_trace' due to a new interaction with the TRACE macro in debugtools.h. http://cvs.winehq.com/cvsweb/wine/include/debugtools.h?rev=1.9 has the source of that Wine include file. In my opinion, we either have to show that the code in Wine is in violation of ANSI/ISO C, or find a way to fix ncurses. How about adding a stub instead of a #define? Performance really shouldn't be an issue in this case! Gerald -- Gerald "Jerry" pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 1:45:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3709237B85D for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 01:45:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9C114C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.156.17.76]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23849; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:44:30 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76357AC30; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:44:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01273; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:44:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:44:43 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Johan Karlsson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: review request: truncate(1) Message-ID: <20000526104443.A1232@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: <20000525165243.A84651@cichlids.cichlids.com> <200005251834.UAA14580@numeri.campus.luth.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005251834.UAA14580@numeri.campus.luth.se>; from k@numeri.campus.luth.se on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 08:34:17PM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thus spake Johan Karlsson (k@numeri.campus.luth.se): > However, the man page does not mention that one have to also > specify the wanted size of the file. Oooops :-) *correcting* Alex -- I need a new ~/.sig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 1:56:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (numeri.campus.luth.se [130.240.197.103]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8648F37B88A for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 01:56:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Received: from numeri.campus.luth.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by numeri.campus.luth.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19351; Fri, 26 May 2000 11:01:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from k@numeri.campus.luth.se) Message-Id: <200005260901.LAA19351@numeri.campus.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Alexander Langer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: review request: truncate(1) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 16:52:43 +0200." <20000525165243.A84651@cichlids.cichlids.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:01:35 +0200 From: Johan Karlsson Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi again, I found your updated version and I look good. However, I just realised that I would get ride of the modeset variable by moving the default assignment of mode to the begining. /Johan K --- truncate.c.orig Fri May 26 10:34:54 2000 +++ truncate.c Fri May 26 10:37:52 2000 @@ -46,8 +46,9 @@ int fd; int optch; mode_t mode, *modp; - int modeset = 0; + mode = S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IRGRP | S_IROTH; + while ((optch = getopt(argc, argv, "hm:")) != -1) switch (optch) { case 'h': @@ -59,7 +60,6 @@ umask(0); mode = getmode(modp, 0); free(modp); - modeset = 1; break; case '?': default: @@ -74,8 +74,6 @@ usage(); exit(1); } - if (!modeset) - mode = S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IRGRP | S_IROTH; size = atol(*argv++); To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 3:10:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 508) id A394937B544; Fri, 26 May 2000 03:10:38 -0700 (PDT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Dell-7500 + Atapi CD-R wierdness Cc: msmith@freebsd.org, sos@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20000526101038.A394937B544@hub.freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 03:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: julian@FreeBSD.ORG (Julian Elischer) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have an atapi CD-R drive in my laptop. under windows I created a disk, using the Adaptec CD-DIRECT software. (UDF-1.50) now I'm using it as a sample of a UDF 1.50 filesystem fo my UDF code. however I've hit something rather puzzling: if I do dd if=/dev/acd0c of=stuff and analyse that file, I get different results than if I access the drive directly. in a similar vein, when I randomly access block 108362, I get block 108362, but when I access the disk sequentially, I find that data at block 108366, 4 blocks away. Does anyone have any clues? Specifically I've heard stories of CDrom devices having very 'approximate' seeking, but this is a bit much, and I thought that was only when in audio mode.. -- __--_|\ Julian Elischer / \ julian@elischer.org ( OZ ) World tour 2000 ---> X_.---._/ presently in: Perth v To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 6:14:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F0C637B8A2 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 06:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babolo@links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14587; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:14:20 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200005261314.RAA14587@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-Reply-To: <00May26.071523est.115206@border.alcanet.com.au> from "Peter Jeremy" at "May 26, 0 07:15:22 am" To: peter.jeremy@ALCATEL.COM.AU (Peter Jeremy) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:14:20 +0400 (MSD) Cc: brian@Awfulhak.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy writes: > On 2000-May-25 19:03:56 +1000, Brian Somers wrote: > >Of course access timestamps are usually useless anyway as most (?!!) > >people will back up their system from time to time.... OOPS ! I > >never realised before now - dump *doesn't* update the access time. > > This is because dump bypasses the filesystem (it reads the underlying > device). Therefore the filesystem doesn't see the access. > > Other backup tools (tar, pax, cpio etc) access the files through the > FS amd therefore alter the access time. Some have the ability to > reset the access time afterwards - but that updates the change time, > which is probably worse. This is probably good justification for a > O_NOTACCESS (ie, this isn't a real access) flag on open(2) to request > that the access time isn't updated. I check it in FreeBSD 4.0-R open do not change atime. > In general, access time is probably the least important of the > timestamps. This is reflected in the treatment of access time > updates - unlike all other inode updates, they are not written > synchronously (non-softupdates) and don't affect soft-updates > write-ordering (so atime updates can be lost). > > As I see it, the major use of access times would be for a true > hierarchical storage manager (which transparently migrated un- > referenced files to a tape-library or similar). It's also good > for things like deleting `old' files in /tmp. See ports/18813: new port: misc/deleted this daemon uses access times [skip]......... -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 6:43:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns0.sitesnow.com (ns0.sitesnow.com [63.166.182.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8583537B8D3 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 06:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gskouby@ns0.sitesnow.com) Received: from gskouby (helo=localhost) by ns0.sitesnow.com with local-esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12vKOv-0006pL-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:43:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:43:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Skouby To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I posted a message to -questions yesterday about a machine that had the /dev directory somewhat corrupt. I could ls -la /dev/wd0* but when I was in the /dev director when I did an ls it was not showing any of the files. Now, today the machine was rebooting over and over again, freezing with this message: fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0xc33a3c6d fault code = supervisor read, page not present Instruction Pointer = 0x8:0xc022798F Stack Pointer = 0x 10: 0xc5dc6988 code segment = base 0 x0, limit 0xfffff type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL =0 current process = 5 (init) interrupt mask = trap number = 12 panic: page fault syncing disk 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 giving up rebooting in 15 seconds It does this over and over again. i am running 3.3-R..Is it a memory problem? Thanks for any help or hints. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 7:19:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iclub.nsu.ru (iclub.nsu.ru [193.124.222.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0232C37B7FE for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 07:17:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Received: from localhost (fjoe@localhost) by iclub.nsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06826 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:51:08 +0700 (NSS) (envelope-from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:51:08 +0700 (NSS) From: Max Khon To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RTLD_NODELETE, RTLD_NOLOAD dlopen mode flags Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, there! Are there any plans to implement RTLD_NODELETE and RTLD_NOLOAD mode flags for dlopen? from Solaris 2.6 man 3X dlopen: The following modes provide additional capabilities outside of relocation processing: RTLD_NODELETE The specified object will not be deleted from the address space as part of a dlclose(). RTLD_NOLOAD The specified object is not loaded as part of the dlopen(), but a valid handle is returned if the object already exists as part of the process address space. Addi- tional modes can be specified and will be or'ed with the present mode of the object and its dependencies. The RTLD_NOLOAD mode provides a means of querying the presence, or promoting the modes, of an existing dependency. /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 7:30:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 542) id 2F7BE37BE3E; Fri, 26 May 2000 07:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:30:56 -0700 From: "Andrey A. Chernov" To: Gerald Pfeifer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, peter@freebsd.org, Wei Dai Subject: Re: ncurses.h and #define trace _nc_trace Message-ID: <20000526073056.A12504@freebsd.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: ; from pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 10:42:07AM +0200 Organization: Biomechanoid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 10:42:07AM +0200, Gerald Pfeifer wrote: > How about adding a stub instead of a #define? Performance really > shouldn't be an issue in this case! Yes, #define was a quick solution. We need either to add a stub or to import ncurses author fix (removing all trace function from production library). Latest is better IMHO, but I left to choose best way to Peter. -- Andrey A. Chernov http://nagual.pp.ru/~ache/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 7:52:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from athena.lightningone.net (athena.lightningone.net [12.34.104.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1AC37BD6C for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 07:52:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by athena.lightningone.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA79193 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 11:04:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from john@essenz.com) X-Authentication-Warning: athena.lightningone.net: john owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:04:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Essenz Consulting X-Sender: john@athena.lightningone.net To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Unexpected reboot. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I posted this awhile back I didnt get much response. Basically, I have a machine with FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE. Every couple of days it reboots for now reason. When I looked at the logs, it shows regular log data, then the next line reads "/kernel: Copyright (c) 1992-2000 The FreeBSD Project. Then the standard kernel stuff gets listed. At the end of the kernel data is says WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. There is nothing before the kernel data about shutting down or rebooting. I have an Intel PRO/100+ network card, U2W scsi. Has anybody encountered something like this? This same hardware configuration has no problems with other versions of FreeBSD, could it be a 4.0 problem. Any help would be great. Thanks. -john von essen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 8: 2:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.surf1.de (mail.surf1.de [194.25.165.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A525037B744 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:02:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@cichlids.com) Received: from cichlids.com (p3E9D38A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [62.157.56.165]) by mail.surf1.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21230; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:01:16 +0200 Received: from cichlids.cichlids.com (cichlids.cichlids.com [192.168.0.10]) by cichlids.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71492AC30; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:01:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from alex@localhost) by cichlids.cichlids.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17880; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:01:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:01:39 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: Essenz Consulting Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unexpected reboot. Message-ID: <20000526170139.A16213@cichlids.cichlids.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from john@essenz.com on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 11:04:01AM -0400 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This to make the memory settings more conservative. I had that too earlier, and after I changed that the machine became much more stable: 5:01pm up 62 days, 20:10, 4 users, load averages: 2.31, 2.12, 1.86 (nfs-buildworld/ports server) Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 8:14: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Inter.barmentlo.net (inter.barmentlo.net [195.38.241.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF2237B8EF for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:13:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from patrick@barmentlo.net) Received: from mail.barmentlo.net (cable.barmentlo.net [195.38.232.12]) by Inter.barmentlo.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA28919; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (pbm@localhost) by mail.barmentlo.net (8.10.0/8.9.2) with ESMTP id e4QFDuu62882; Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:13:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Patrick Barmentlo X-Sender: pbm@anthrax.barmentlo.net To: Essenz Consulting Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unexpected reboot. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 May 2000, Essenz Consulting wrote: > I posted this awhile back I didnt get much response. > > Basically, I have a machine with FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE. > > Every couple of days it reboots for now reason. When I looked at the logs, > it shows regular log data, then the next line reads "/kernel: Copyright > (c) 1992-2000 The FreeBSD Project. > > Then the standard kernel stuff gets listed. At the end of the kernel data > is says WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. There is nothing before > the kernel data about shutting down or rebooting. > > I have an Intel PRO/100+ network card, U2W scsi. Has anybody encountered > something like this? This same hardware configuration has no problems with > other versions of FreeBSD, could it be a 4.0 problem. > > Any help would be great. Thanks. > > -john von essen I John, I've experienced simulair problems , and tracked it down to hardware. (sorry no debugging, just switched some components..) At this moment i've runnig lot's of boxes 4.0 whithout any problem at all.. suggestion: for me it was in bogus memory.. grtz patrick -- Patrick Barmentlo patrick@barmentlo.nl - pgp key ID 0x8E372335 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 8:26:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from aaz.links.ru (aaz.links.ru [193.125.152.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193C937B87A for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from babolo@links.ru) Received: (from babolo@localhost) by aaz.links.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25943; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:25:56 +0400 (MSD) Message-Id: <200005261525.TAA25943@aaz.links.ru> Subject: Re: Unexpected reboot. In-Reply-To: from "Essenz Consulting" at "May 26, 0 11:04:01 am" To: john@essenz.com (Essenz Consulting) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:25:56 +0400 (MSD) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Essenz Consulting writes: > I posted this awhile back I didnt get much response. > > Basically, I have a machine with FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE. > > Every couple of days it reboots for now reason. When I looked at the logs, > it shows regular log data, then the next line reads "/kernel: Copyright > (c) 1992-2000 The FreeBSD Project. > > Then the standard kernel stuff gets listed. At the end of the kernel data > is says WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. There is nothing before > the kernel data about shutting down or rebooting. > > I have an Intel PRO/100+ network card, U2W scsi. Has anybody encountered > something like this? This same hardware configuration has no problems with > other versions of FreeBSD, could it be a 4.0 problem. > > Any help would be great. Thanks. I see it on 3.3-R and 3.4-R, it is rare on 4.0-R and almoust absent on FreeBSD badaxe.duty.ru 4.0-STABLE FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE #0: Sun May 7 21:12:08 MSD 2000 babolo@cicuta.babolo.ru:/usr/src/sys/compile/badaxe i386 but still occur sometimes : ahc0: port 0x6c00-0x6cff mem 0xe0420000-0xe0420fff irq 11 at device 8.0 on pci0 : ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs and : xl0: <3Com 3c905-TX Fast Etherlink XL> port 0x7400-0x743f irq 9 at device 10.0 on pci0 : xl0: Ethernet address: 00:60:97:5d:a2:7d : miibus0: on xl0 : nsphy0: on miibus0 : nsphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto : xl0: supplying EUI64: 00:60:97:ff:fe:5d:a2:7d with : CPU: AMD-K6(tm) 3D+ Processor (400.91-MHz 586-class CPU) : Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x591 Stepping = 1 : Features=0x8021bf : AMD Features=0x80000800 AMD-K6-III processor and : pcib1: at device 1.0 on pci0 : isab0: at device 7.0 on pci0 : atapci0: port 0x6400-0x640f at device 7.1 on pci0 : chip1: at device 7.3 on pci0 VIA MVP3 chipset on PA-2013 mainboard but I now noticed that PA-2013 have special revision to work with AMD-K6-400 I have not. there is sometimes Apr 8 17:53:29 cicuta /kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): data overrun detected in Data-in phase. Tag == 0xb. Apr 8 17:53:29 cicuta /kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Have seen Data Phase. Length = 8192. NumSGs = 1. Apr 8 17:53:29 cicuta /kernel: sg[0] - Addr 0x58ed000 : Length 8192 messages in addition to locks. I have no troubles at all with this hardware and 2.2.7-RELEASE -- @BABOLO http://links.ru/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 8:45: 8 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from arjun.niksun.com (gwnew.niksun.com [206.20.52.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9965137BD99 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 08:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joy@niksun.com) Received: from falcon.niksun.com (falcon.niksun.com [10.0.0.167]) by arjun.niksun.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05990 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from joy@falcon.niksun.com) Message-ID: <392E9C0E.4B9EB0FB@falcon.niksun.com> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:45:18 -0400 From: Joy Ganguly X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers Subject: S5933 PCI Adapter..?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, i have a atm oc3 care which uses the amcc S5933 PCI adapter. however the driver reports "unable to map mem" at boot time. i used pciconf to read the configuration space base address registers and all of them showed 0x00000000. however when i write all 1's t the base registers they give me the proper mask. the device and vendor id configuration registers show the right values. i think the bios is unable to assign physical addresses. how can i solve this problem?? one way out is to have the driver assign physical addresses to map the pci space. however for that i need the physical map...what data structure holds that?? thanx in advance joy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 9:36:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailgw1.netvision.net.il (mailgw1.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B831537BE64 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ak@freenet.co.uk) Received: from freenet.co.uk (RAS3-p24.rlz.netvision.net.il [62.0.169.26]) by mailgw1.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01018; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:35:54 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <392EB789.B1931C9@freenet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:42:33 +0300 From: A G F Keahan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Halstead Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux emu question References: <012d01bfc6e4$7fa312e0$96c3d9d1@halste07> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG James, You can download a fully functional 30-day evaluation version of VMWare and see for yourself (make sure you tell them that your "distribution of Linux" is FreeBSD). There are two ports in the FreeBSD ports collection -- /usr/ports/emulators/vmware1 and vmware2, which make installation a lot easier. I haven't tried VMWare2, because VMWare1 does everything I need and I don't want to fix what ain't broken. NT4.0 works very well in a virtual machine (with VMWare tools installed), just a bit slower than running on the actual hardware. Make sure your graphics adapter supports DGA (I have Matrox G200), and your disks are fast (mine are Ultra66 DMA). You also need to mount linprocfs, and install the rtc device (also in ports). Alex P.S. BTW, questions about Linux emulation should be sent to freebsd-emulation. James Halstead wrote: > > I noticed some people talking about the linux emulation and how good/bad it > can be and I just wondered, does anybody here have any experiences with the > vmware for linux software? I have been thinking of buying this, for those > one or two windows programs that I need to use now and then. > > Just wondering, > James. > ------------------------------------------------------- > ICQ #19675056 > Public key available at: > http://www.dreamscape.com/halstead/jh.asc > ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 9:59:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B102D37B660 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 09:59:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p03-dn03kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [210.232.224.132]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id BAA06777; Sat, 27 May 2000 01:59:22 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <392E99B0.1AFF0D0E@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:35:12 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Duncan Barclay Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, "Duane H.Hesser" Subject: Re: FreeBSD kernel as a replacement for Linux kernel References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Duncan Barclay wrote: > > I have in my archives some code from the "person" who usually brings up > the logical name stuff (the code implements them). > > However, there is also this snippet: > > PS: if you need the changes to namei() for variant symbolic links, > ask me nicely, and I will disentangle them from my other changes > to namei() for layering fixes, Unicode, and alternate namespace > support (used by a modified (CIFS enhanced) Samba server which > needs to have the DOS short name remain constant across directory > searches). > > So who wants to ask him for them? The funny thing is... I'd have more trouble identifying the author of a snippet from a mail by my own mother than that snippet above. :-) (otoh, that's not funny... that' scary! :) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@another.bsdconspiracy.org "Sentience hurts." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 10:19:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE5737B57D for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:19:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16495 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:23:55 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Dennis Subject: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My 4.0 system doesnt probe ISA devices on my system. Whats the trick? Is there a config requirement with old-style drivers? Dennis To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 10:33:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8F237BE92 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@dsuper.net) Received: from modemcable009.62-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.62.9]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FV600JR4GRNSC@field.videotron.net> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:34:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Bosko Milekic Subject: Re: fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode In-reply-to: X-Sender: bmilekic@jehovah.technokratis.com To: Greg Skouby Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 May 2000, Greg Skouby wrote: > Hello, > > I posted a message to -questions yesterday about a machine that had the > /dev directory somewhat corrupt. I could ls -la /dev/wd0* but when I was > in the /dev director when I did an ls it was not showing any of the files. > Now, today the machine was rebooting over and over again, freezing with > this message: > > > fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > > fault virtual address = 0xc33a3c6d > > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > > Instruction Pointer = 0x8:0xc022798F > You have to post more information. For example, what is at the location pointed at by the instruction pointer? Get a stack trace, if possible (from the debugger), and any other relevant info., most of which is explained in the Handbook. -- Bosko Milekic * pages.infinit.net/bmilekic/index.html * www.technokratis.com bmilekic@dsuper.net * bmilekic@technokratis.com * b.milekic@marianopolis.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 10:43:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2BE37BFC7; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:43:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA288938; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:43:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:43:23 -0400 To: Kris Kennaway From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Needed: suid library calls [or pkey's?] Cc: nsayer@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 6:01 PM -0700 5/25/00, Kris Kennaway wrote: >On Thu, 25 May 2000, Garance A Drosihn wrote: > > > It was called program keys, or 'pkey's. When a program > > was running, there was this pkey attribute (in addition > > to uid and gid). The pkey was a 16-character value (if > > I remember right). Each executable had a pkey associated > > with it, and that value became the current pkey when the > > program started to execute. Users could change the pkey > >There's an inherent security weakness to beware of in this >system under UNIX: (non-set[ug]id) processes are inherently >untrustable things - for example you can attach to the >running program with a debugger and make it run your own >code no matter what was already there. [...] Indeed. The same was true on the OS this comes from. I was worried my message was getting too long, so I skipped over some of the details that come up when implementing this. >The alternative is to prevent attaching debuggers to any >process which runs with one of these extended credentials, >like we do for set[ug]id binaries (this is probably the >sensible solution). That's basically how we handled it. >Such a system could probably be implemented fairly easily >within the framework of the "extended attributes"/ACL system >already in FreeBSD along with what's being developed for >TrustedBSD. Specifically, you'd store a credential ("pkey") >as an extended attribute on a binary, and have an ACL system >which knows about these credentials as well as whatever other >access policies you want (POSIX.1e ACLs, traditional UNIX file >permissions, etc). When I wrote my message, I really was just wandering down memory lane to talk about a feature I missed from my earlier systems-programming days. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like this is something which really COULD be done for FreeBSD (at least as an option). I'll have to think about this some more, as it really would be nice to have this. I guess I first have to learn more about the extended-attributes/ ACL system in freebsd or TrustedBSD... (so many projects, so little time...) --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 10:48:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD20B37BFFA for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcov@toad.stack.nl) Received: from hermes.tue.nl [131.155.2.46] by kweetal.tue.nl (8.9.3) for id TAA06467 (ESMTP); Fri, 26 May 2000 19:48:06 +0200 (MDT) Received: from deathstar (n49.dial.tue.nl [131.155.209.48]) by hermes.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A065C2E803 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:48:05 +0200 (CEST) From: "Marco van de Voort" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:49:21 +0100 Subject: Re: getdirentries() and /proc In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-Id: <20000526174805.A065C2E803@hermes.tue.nl> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The man page for getdirentries() says: > > int > getdirentries(int fd, char *buf, int nbytes, long *basep) > > "The nbytes argument must be greater than or equal to the block > size associated with the file, see stat(2). Some filesys- > tems may not support these functions with buffers smaller than > this size." > > So ... what are we supposed to use for this? For special filesystems > like /proc, is any old value that is sufficiently large enough to hold > a few struct dirent's considered to be OK? Should I not use > 'getdirentries()', and opt instead for 'opendir()' and 'readdir()'? > > Any advice is appreciated. I also had this problem (when I created a readdir equivalent for a port of a non-libc using compiler). I checked libc, and libc always seems to use 1024 bytes (constant called DIRBLKSIZ) for nbytes. But I didn't try to search /proc yet. Also keep in mind that using getdirentries you could get duplicate entries (libc readdir sorts and removes duplicates first). I however don't know if this is just because of hardlinks (which most people don't use afaik) or also for regular filehandling. Marco van de Voort (MarcoV@Stack.nl or marco@freepascal.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 10:48:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4CF37BFFA for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 10:48:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcov@toad.stack.nl) Received: from hermes.tue.nl [131.155.2.46] by kweetal.tue.nl (8.9.3) for id TAA06465 (ESMTP); Fri, 26 May 2000 19:48:06 +0200 (MDT) Received: from deathstar (n49.dial.tue.nl [131.155.209.48]) by hermes.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C0E72E802 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 19:48:04 +0200 (CEST) From: "Marco van de Voort" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:49:21 +0100 Subject: Re: file creation times ? References: <20000524185859.A19573@sharmas.dhs.org>; from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 11:59:41AM +1000 In-reply-to: <00May25.131527est.115222@border.alcanet.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-Id: <20000526174804.8C0E72E802@hermes.tue.nl> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > That's not justification for putting a creation time into the UFS. > Different filesystems store different information - depending on > what the FS developers saw as important. You could just as easily > point out the deficiencies of NTFS based on it's inability to > support all the metadata in NFS. I know very little of filesystems, but I know that NTFS is extensible (and supports several file strains). So probably that is not a limitation of NTFS, but of the NT implementation of it. E.g. Mac stuff is stored in an extra strain, extra attributes can be stored in the MFS etc etc. One could write a *nix NTFS driver that supported NFS metadata. Marco van de Voort (MarcoV@Stack.nl or marco@freepascal.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 11:22:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C19D37C450 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@dsuper.net) Received: from modemcable009.62-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.62.9]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FV6003H2IB7GJ@field.videotron.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Bosko Milekic Subject: Linux Module problems X-Sender: bmilekic@jehovah.technokratis.com To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On my -CURRENT machine, FreeBSD jehovah 5.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Sat May 13 15:11:13 EDT 2000 root@jehovah:/usr/src/sys/compile/JEHOVAH i386 (obviously a little out-dated), I have recently noticed unusual problems with the linux module which, by the way, is of the same date. The first problem I discovered first came up while building the StarOffice5 port. After checking the dependency for linux's libc5, it _spontaneously_ reboots. No panic(), hence no debugger. I've never seen this sort of behavior before and have no idea what could have caused it. However, I noticed a related incident, which I can reproduce. What I did was, for kicks, kldunload linux, and then make install the staroffice5 port, and this time, I got a page fault and panic() from within malloc, which was trying to move something located at an address on an unmapped page to a register. I can reproduce this easily at the moment, with the following: #!/bin/sh while true; do kldload linux; kldunload linux; done A quick kldunload linux followed by a quick kldload linux does it on the first iteration. What's more odd is that now, after panic()ing the machine a couple of times with the above, I can reproduce the spontaneous reboot easily too, by just starting up linux Netscape! At the moment, I cvsup-ed new sources, and am rebuilding world and a fresh new kernel, at which point I'll try to reproduce this again. I remember seeing this in earlier -CURRENT, too, just never got around to playing with it. Anyone? -- Bosko Milekic * pages.infinit.net/bmilekic/index.html * www.technokratis.com bmilekic@dsuper.net * bmilekic@technokratis.com * b.milekic@marianopolis.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 13:13: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from itesec.hsc.fr (itesec.hsc.fr [192.70.106.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC6437B5A7 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:12:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Alain.Thivillon@hsc.fr) Received: from yoko.hsc.fr (yoko.hsc.fr [192.70.106.76]) by itesec.hsc.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723E510EEA; Fri, 26 May 2000 22:12:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: by yoko.hsc.fr (Postfix release-19990601, from userid 1001) id 04D7B9B017; Fri, 26 May 2000 22:12:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:12:09 +0200 From: Alain Thivillon To: Bosko Milekic Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux Module problems Message-ID: <20000526221209.E9906@yoko.hsc.fr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.10i In-Reply-To: ; from bmilekic@dsuper.net on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 02:08:18PM -0400 X-Organization: Herve Schauer Consultants X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bosko Milekic écrivait (wrote) : > What's more odd is that now, after panic()ing the machine a couple of > times with the above, I can reproduce the spontaneous reboot easily too, > by just starting up linux Netscape! I had the same problem with all statically linked Linux binaries, including rpm. I guess that loader does not recognize as Linux, launch them as FreeBSD static and one of the syscall is mapped to halt() (for example if dont launch rpm as root, i have "Segmentation violation" instead of a reboot). As explained in /usr/src/UPDATING, you have to rebrand them: brandelf -t Linux The first candidate (and i think this explain you problem) if of course /compat/linux/sbin/ldconfig. -- Alain Thivillon -+- Alain.Thivillon@hsc.fr -+- Hervé Schauer Consultants To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 13:20:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [212.209.29.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF67C37B732; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:20:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 2BC062DC0B; Fri, 26 May 2000 22:26:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 150BA7817; Fri, 26 May 2000 22:18:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9B910E17; Fri, 26 May 2000 22:18:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:18:53 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: "Koster, K.J." Cc: java@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel threads (RE: alphaworks 1.3 linux port) In-Reply-To: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D7590@l04.research.kpn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG (I CC:'d to -hackers, perhaps someone can enlighten us wrt. the availability of kernel threads..) On Fri, 26 May 2000, Koster, K.J. wrote: > > > > > Has anyone had a look at this? Reports are that it's a big > > > improvement over the BDown stuff. Anyone had a play yet? > > > 1.3 is a big improvement over 1.2.2 performancewise, at least on Windows. > > > > > it works great under linux (redhat 6.1) but i wasn't able to > > get it to run under linux emulation of freebsd 4.0. if anyone > > figures it out, i'd love to hear how they did it. > > > Could you elaborate on your attempts to get it running? Any error messages > or irregular behaviour? What version of the linux port were you using? As I wrote about two weeks ago, I tried to get it running on relatively up-to-date 5.0-CURRENT. Alphaworks JVM uses native threads on Linux, which (as far as I understand) are impossible to have right now, either under Linux emulation or otherwise. The error message was: sigaltstack: Cannot allocate memory, which after looking up in the manpage led me to believe that perhaps Linux doesn't add MINSIGSTKSZ by default to the stack size. Added it to linuxulator in appropriate places (in linux_signal.c:linux_sigaltstack()), and it stopped complaining, but started eating 100% CPU. At which point I gave up... Obviously, the matter is more complicated than that - that is, it was shooting in the dark. I know I don't have kernel threads, I was just curious where it would bomb out.. :-) Andrzej Bialecki // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ------------------------------------------------------------------- // ------ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org -------- // --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ ---- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 13:21:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from falla.videotron.net (falla.videotron.net [205.151.222.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3791237B9C2 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:21:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@dsuper.net) Received: from modemcable009.62-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.62.9]) by falla.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FV600J9HOIZQF@falla.videotron.net> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 26 May 2000 16:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Bosko Milekic Subject: Re: Linux Module problems In-reply-to: <20000526221209.E9906@yoko.hsc.fr> X-Sender: bmilekic@jehovah.technokratis.com To: Alain Thivillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 May 2000, Alain Thivillon wrote: > =09I had the same problem with all statically linked Linux > binaries, including rpm. I guess that loader does not recognize as > Linux, launch them as FreeBSD static and one of the syscall is mapped to > halt() (for example if dont launch rpm as root, i have "Segmentation > violation" instead of a reboot). =09I just re-cvsuped and rebuilt everything, and I am still having the same problem. In fact, I've noticed something else: After the reboot, the _time_ (not the date, though) is modified to, generally +4 hours. I have no idea why this would be happening. >=20 > =09As explained in /usr/src/UPDATING, you have to rebrand them: >=20 > brandelf -t Linux >=20 > The first candidate (and i think this explain you problem) > if of course /compat/linux/sbin/ldconfig. =09Am giving it a shot.=20 >=20 > --=20 > Alain Thivillon -+- Alain.Thivillon@hsc.fr -+- Herv=E9 Schauer Consultant= s >=20 >=20 -- Bosko Milekic * pages.infinit.net/bmilekic/index.html * www.technokratis.c= om bmilekic@dsuper.net * bmilekic@technokratis.com * b.milekic@marianopolis.e= du To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 13:47:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from falla.videotron.net (falla.videotron.net [205.151.222.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE6F37B534 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:47:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@dsuper.net) Received: from modemcable009.62-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.62.9]) by falla.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FV600K89PPADK@falla.videotron.net> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 26 May 2000 16:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Bosko Milekic Subject: Re: Linux Module problems In-reply-to: X-Sender: bmilekic@jehovah.technokratis.com To: Alain Thivillon Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > As explained in /usr/src/UPDATING, you have to rebrand them: > > > > brandelf -t Linux > > > > The first candidate (and i think this explain you problem) > > if of course /compat/linux/sbin/ldconfig. > > Am giving it a shot. > This worked. Thanks! -- Bosko Milekic * pages.infinit.net/bmilekic/index.html * www.technokratis.com bmilekic@dsuper.net * bmilekic@technokratis.com * b.milekic@marianopolis.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 13:52: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from funkthat.com (adsl-63-195-54-213.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.195.54.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBBE37B86D for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:51:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by funkthat.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id NAA28486; Fri, 26 May 2000 13:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20000526135148.07149@hydrogen.funkthat.com> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:51:48 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Arun Sharma Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: truss(1) with support for fork(2) and friends References: <20000520180228.A4383@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <20000520180228.A4383@sharmas.dhs.org>; from Arun Sharma on Sat, May 20, 2000 at 06:02:29PM -0700 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arun Sharma scribbled this message on May 20: > I just implemented the "-f" flag in truss, to trace across fork(2), > rfork(2) and vfork(2) (the last one is not tested). [...] > I'm guilty of running indent against the source, before I did this work. > So I can't generate a clean patch yet. But if I get good feedback on this > work, I'll clean it up and produce a patch that can be commited. well, has another committer expressed intrest in this work? I was looking at committing your code, but it's both for an out of date version of truss, and run though ident... if you could provide the changes to the -current source (w/o ident) I'd greatly appreciate it.. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 408 975 9651 Cu Networking "I say all sorts of useless things." -- cmc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 14: 3: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD35337B724 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:02:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26276; Fri, 26 May 2000 22:01:17 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00505; Fri, 26 May 2000 21:05:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200005262005.VAA00505@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" Cc: peter.jeremy@ALCATEL.COM.AU (Peter Jeremy), brian@Awfulhak.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org Subject: Re: file creation times ? In-Reply-To: Message from "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" of "Fri, 26 May 2000 17:14:20 +0400." <200005261314.RAA14587@aaz.links.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:05:53 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [.....] > I check it in FreeBSD 4.0-R > open do not change atime. Indeed, but it sets a bunch of flags that can be referred to later by the driver. This would be a good flag - perhaps limited in the same way that touching the file is (owner only). [.....] > -- > @BABOLO http://links.ru/ -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 14:17:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BC737B5D4 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28230; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:17:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:17:06 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: truss(1) with support for fork(2) and friends Message-ID: <20000526141706.A28212@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <20000520180228.A4383@sharmas.dhs.org> <20000526135148.07149@hydrogen.funkthat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20000526135148.07149@hydrogen.funkthat.com>; from John-Mark Gurney on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:51:48PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:51:48PM -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > well, has another committer expressed intrest in this work? I was > looking at committing your code, but it's both for an out of date version > of truss, and run though ident... if you could provide the changes > to the -current source (w/o ident) I'd greatly appreciate it.. Sean Eric Fagan did. But he'd like me to go - "single truss many processes with select" way. I'm not sure if I have the time to implement that - but yes, I'll work on coming up with a clean patch against -current. -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 14:48:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C2C37B8E7 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24294; Fri, 26 May 2000 15:48:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA92719; Fri, 26 May 2000 15:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005262147.PAA92719@harmony.village.org> To: Dennis Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 May 2000 13:23:55 EDT." <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> References: <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:47:18 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> Dennis writes: : My 4.0 system doesnt probe ISA devices on my system. : : Whats the trick? Is there a config requirement with old-style drivers? They probe great for me. what, specifically, isn't probing? Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 14:50:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from funkthat.com (adsl-63-195-54-213.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.195.54.213]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04AA237B875 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by funkthat.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id OAA29231; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20000526145024.14120@hydrogen.funkthat.com> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:50:24 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Arun Sharma Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: truss(1) with support for fork(2) and friends References: <20000520180228.A4383@sharmas.dhs.org> <20000526135148.07149@hydrogen.funkthat.com> <20000526141706.A28212@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <20000526141706.A28212@sharmas.dhs.org>; from Arun Sharma on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 02:17:06PM -0700 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Arun Sharma scribbled this message on May 26: > On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:51:48PM -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > well, has another committer expressed intrest in this work? I was > > looking at committing your code, but it's both for an out of date version > > of truss, and run though ident... if you could provide the changes > > to the -current source (w/o ident) I'd greatly appreciate it.. > > Sean Eric Fagan did. But he'd like me to go - "single truss many processes > with select" way. I'm not sure if I have the time to implement that > - but yes, I'll work on coming up with a clean patch against -current. ok, I'll let sef do the integration, but if it goes for a week or so w/o it, email me, and I'll work on integrating it... also, don't use select, use kqueue.. :) much better performance... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 408 975 9651 Cu Networking "I say all sorts of useless things." -- cmc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri May 26 15:47:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Awfulhak.org (tun.AwfulHak.org [194.242.139.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8169C37B5E1 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 15:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (root@hak.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.12]) by Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26772; Fri, 26 May 2000 23:46:07 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hak.lan.Awfulhak.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA40194; Fri, 26 May 2000 23:46:05 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <200005262246.XAA40194@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: "James Halstead" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org, Mark Knight Subject: Re: Linux emu question In-Reply-To: Message from "James Halstead" of "Fri, 26 May 2000 03:32:06 EDT." <012d01bfc6e4$7fa312e0$96c3d9d1@halste07> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 23:46:04 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I noticed some people talking about the linux emulation and how good/bad it > can be and I just wondered, does anybody here have any experiences with the > vmware for linux software? I have been thinking of buying this, for those > one or two windows programs that I need to use now and then. To add to the other responses.... I run OpenBSD-current under VMware2 (on my FreeBSD-current laptop) and also run NT4 when I need to read lotus scrotes mail at work. It's very stable (bar the recent module changes which are probably now fixed with the latest vmware2/Makefile update). Mark Knight (cc'd) runs FreeBSD-current in a vmware2 box under NT very successfully up until about a week ago (he's having some nasty panics with currents built within the last week). Julian Elischer runs FreeBSD-current under vmware? on a FreeBSD-current box with no complaints afaik. > Just wondering, It's worth the $99 in my book ! > James. > ------------------------------------------------------- > ICQ #19675056 > Public key available at: > http://www.dreamscape.com/halstead/jh.asc > ------------------------------------------------------- -- Brian Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 0:55:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F1637B665 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 00:55:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e4R7stT63383; Sat, 27 May 2000 09:54:55 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <200005270754.e4R7stT63383@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed In-Reply-To: <200005262147.PAA92719@harmony.village.org> from Warner Losh at "May 26, 2000 03:47:18 pm" To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:54:55 +0200 (SAT) Cc: dennis@etinc.com (Dennis), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> Dennis writes: > : My 4.0 system doesnt probe ISA devices on my system. > : > : Whats the trick? Is there a config requirement with old-style drivers? > > They probe great for me. what, specifically, isn't probing? He is probably talking about their own driver. In that case you have to add it to /sys/i386/isa/isa_compat.* or bite the bullet and new-busify it. John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 3: 7:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED0E37B88D for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 03:07:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from nlsys.demon.co.uk ([158.152.125.33] helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12vdVO-0009dq-0Y; Sat, 27 May 2000 11:07:42 +0100 Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA69266; Sat, 27 May 2000 11:14:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:13:18 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Joy Ganguly Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: S5933 PCI Adapter..?? In-Reply-To: <392E9C0E.4B9EB0FB@falcon.niksun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 26 May 2000, Joy Ganguly wrote: > hi all, > > i have a atm oc3 care which uses the amcc S5933 PCI adapter. however the > driver reports "unable to map mem" at boot time. i used pciconf to read > the configuration space base address registers and all of them showed > 0x00000000. however when i write all 1's t the base registers they give > me the proper mask. the device and vendor id configuration registers > show the right values. i think the bios is unable to assign physical > addresses. > > how can i solve this problem?? one way out is to have the driver assign > physical addresses to map the pci space. however for that i need the > physical map...what data structure holds that?? Can you check your BIOS and make sure it does *not* think you have a Plug-n-Play OS. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 20 8442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 3:53:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lucifer.bart.nl (lucifer.bart.nl [194.158.168.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D08D37B9D6; Sat, 27 May 2000 03:53:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@lucifer.bart.nl) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by lucifer.bart.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA39601; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:51:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:51:25 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: Max Khon Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RTLD_NODELETE, RTLD_NOLOAD dlopen mode flags Message-ID: <20000527125125.G38628@lucifer.bart.nl> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:51:08PM +0700 Organisation: VIA Net.Works The Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -On [20000526 16:22], Max Khon (fjoe@iclub.nsu.ru) wrote: >Are there any plans to implement RTLD_NODELETE and RTLD_NOLOAD mode >flags for dlopen? Not sure, buy maybe John Polstra can answer this one. CC:'d. >from Solaris 2.6 man 3X dlopen: > > The following modes provide additional capabilities outside > of relocation processing: > > RTLD_NODELETE The specified object will not be deleted > from the address space as part of a > dlclose(). > > RTLD_NOLOAD The specified object is not loaded as part > of the dlopen(), but a valid handle is > returned if the object already exists as > part of the process address space. Addi- > tional modes can be specified and will be > or'ed with the present mode of the object > and its dependencies. The RTLD_NOLOAD mode > provides a means of querying the presence, > or promoting the modes, of an existing > dependency. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator VIA Net.Works The Netherlands BSD: Technical excellence at its best http://www.via-net-works.nl Veni, Vidi, Vici... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 3:56: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lucifer.bart.nl (lucifer.bart.nl [194.158.168.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A852637B620 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 03:55:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@lucifer.bart.nl) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by lucifer.bart.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA39644; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:55:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:55:16 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: "Aleksandr A.Babaylov" Cc: Essenz Consulting , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Unexpected reboot. Message-ID: <20000527125516.H38628@lucifer.bart.nl> References: <200005261525.TAA25943@aaz.links.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005261525.TAA25943@aaz.links.ru>; from babolo@links.ru on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 07:25:56PM +0400 Organisation: VIA Net.Works The Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -On [20000526 17:28], Aleksandr A.Babaylov (babolo@links.ru) wrote: > >Apr 8 17:53:29 cicuta /kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): data overrun detected in Data-in phase. Tag == 0xb. >Apr 8 17:53:29 cicuta /kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Have seen Data Phase. Length = 8192. NumSGs = 1. >Apr 8 17:53:29 cicuta /kernel: sg[0] - Addr 0x58ed000 : Length 8192 > >messages in addition to locks. >I have no troubles at all with this hardware and 2.2.7-RELEASE Hmmm. If this happens the pager or swapper might be unable to make use of the swapslice or to page in/out some parts of the binaries or other files. That can cause spontaneous reboots as well. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator VIA Net.Works The Netherlands BSD: Technical excellence at its best http://www.via-net-works.nl Cogito, ergo sum... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 3:59:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lucifer.bart.nl (lucifer.bart.nl [194.158.168.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB54737B983 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 03:59:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@lucifer.bart.nl) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by lucifer.bart.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA39687; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:59:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:59:09 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: Michael Lucas Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Proper uses for MFS? Message-ID: <20000527125909.I38628@lucifer.bart.nl> References: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005251705.NAA67491@blackhelicopters.org>; from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 01:05:02PM -0400 Organisation: VIA Net.Works The Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -On [20000525 19:06], Michael Lucas (mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) wrote: > >We had a thread some time ago on why MFS wasn't useful for certain >applications. I searched through the mail archives, and found lots of >things MFS wouldn't be right for, but not much of the other way around. > >What are some good, reasonable use for MFS nowadays? I know a couple of admins who use a MFS for holding a [d]history for their news server or diablo newsfeeder. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator VIA Net.Works The Netherlands BSD: Technical excellence at its best http://www.via-net-works.nl Pleasure's a sin, and sometimes sin's a pleasure... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 6:50:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Mail.Lviv.UA (Omega.UAR.Net [193.124.228.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15E537B518 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 06:50:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peleh@Omega.ICMP.Lviv.UA) Received: from localhost (peleh@localhost) by Mail.Lviv.UA (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA19864 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 16:50:50 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 16:50:50 +0300 (EEST) From: Roman Peleh To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Please help me. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG When I am working I receive the folowing error Fatal trap: page fault while in kernel mode and after some time my machine reboot by itself May be I set smth wrong in the kernel, but my system rebooting again and again If somebody can help please help. I don't subscribe, so post e-mail to me. Thank you in advance. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 7: 0:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from overcee.netplex.com.au (peter1.yahoo.com [208.48.107.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC72C37B68A for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 07:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.netplex.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2352D1CE1; Sat, 27 May 2000 07:00:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Bosko Milekic Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux Module problems In-Reply-To: Message from Bosko Milekic of "Fri, 26 May 2000 14:08:18 EDT." Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 07:00:11 -0700 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20000527140011.2352D1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The ipfw module does the same thing too. I discovered this while testing the kernel side of the recent module changes. Bosko Milekic wrote: > On my -CURRENT machine, > > FreeBSD jehovah 5.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Sat May 13 15:11:13 EDT > 2000 root@jehovah:/usr/src/sys/compile/JEHOVAH i386 > > (obviously a little out-dated), I have recently noticed unusual > problems with the linux module which, by the way, is of the same date. > The first problem I discovered first came up while building the > StarOffice5 port. After checking the dependency for linux's libc5, it > _spontaneously_ reboots. No panic(), hence no debugger. I've never seen > this sort of behavior before and have no idea what could have caused it. > However, I noticed a related incident, which I can reproduce. What I > did was, for kicks, kldunload linux, and then make install the > staroffice5 port, and this time, I got a page fault and panic() from > within malloc, which was trying to move something located at an address > on an unmapped page to a register. I can reproduce this easily at the > moment, with the following: > > #!/bin/sh > while true; do > kldload linux; > kldunload linux; > done > > A quick kldunload linux followed by a quick kldload linux does it on the > first iteration. > > What's more odd is that now, after panic()ing the machine a couple of > times with the above, I can reproduce the spontaneous reboot easily too, > by just starting up linux Netscape! > > At the moment, I cvsup-ed new sources, and am rebuilding world and a > fresh new kernel, at which point I'll try to reproduce this again. I > remember seeing this in earlier -CURRENT, too, just never got around to > playing with it. Anyone? > > -- > Bosko Milekic * pages.infinit.net/bmilekic/index.html * www.technokratis.com > bmilekic@dsuper.net * bmilekic@technokratis.com * b.milekic@marianopolis.edu > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 7: 3:59 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from Mail.Lviv.UA (Omega.UAR.Net [193.124.228.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A96F37B68A for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 07:03:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peleh@Omega.ICMP.Lviv.UA) Received: from localhost (peleh@localhost) by Mail.Lviv.UA (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA24738 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 17:03:42 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:03:42 +0300 (EEST) From: Roman Peleh Reply-To: Roman Peleh To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with booting!!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I receive such message Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual adress=.... fault code=supervisor read, page no rpesent instruction pointer=0x8:23... ... panic: page fault syncing disks... and after this my system can't boot(I don't see any messages on screen) Please help me. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 8:11:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kweetal.tue.nl (kweetal.tue.nl [131.155.2.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7E337B6D4 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 08:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcov@toad.stack.nl) Received: from hermes.tue.nl [131.155.2.46] by kweetal.tue.nl (8.9.3) for id RAA09529 (ESMTP); Sat, 27 May 2000 17:11:09 +0200 (MDT) Received: from deathstar (n177.dial.tue.nl [131.155.209.176]) by hermes.tue.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277092E803 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 17:11:05 +0200 (CEST) From: "Marco van de Voort" To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:12:21 +0100 Subject: Re: file creation times ? References: <00May25.131527est.115222@border.alcanet.com.au> In-reply-to: <20000526174804.8C0E72E802@hermes.tue.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-Id: <20000527151105.277092E803@hermes.tue.nl> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I know very little of filesystems, but I know that NTFS is extensible > (and supports several file strains). So probably that is not a limitation of NTFS, > but of the NT implementation of it. > > E.g. Mac stuff is stored in an extra strain, extra attributes can be stored in > the MFS etc etc. One could write a *nix NTFS driver that supported NFS > metadata. Whoops, that should be MFT (Master File Table) not MFS. Probably got confused by all those MFS messages :-) And btw there is afaik also no reason why a new NTFS driver couldn't be developped for NT (that supported NFS metadata). NTFS support is according to the docs a separate module. (but that is the theory, not practice) Marco van de Voort (MarcoV@Stack.nl or marco@freepascal.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 10:29:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F100437B69D for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 10:29:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA31503; Sat, 27 May 2000 10:29:25 -0700 Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 10:29:25 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: truss(1) with support for fork(2) and friends Message-ID: <20000527102925.A31411@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <20000520180228.A4383@sharmas.dhs.org> <20000526135148.07149@hydrogen.funkthat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20000526135148.07149@hydrogen.funkthat.com>; from John-Mark Gurney on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:51:48PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:51:48PM -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > well, has another committer expressed intrest in this work? I was > looking at committing your code, but it's both for an out of date version > of truss, and run though ident... if you could provide the changes > to the -current source (w/o ident) I'd greatly appreciate it.. Ok, the cleaned up diff is at: http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/projects/freebsd/truss-diff-current.gz Things TBD: 1. Move print_syscall to syscall_entry rather than exit. 2. Fix the race - before the child truss can attach to the child process, the child could be gone. Other OSes are capable of creating a child which is already stopped, if the parent was being traced. 3. Port the code to alpha 4. Preserve ordering in truss output. Due to stdio, the buffering might reorder the syscalls. -Arun To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 10:30: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBFFF37B7C7 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 10:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p16-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.17]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id CAA13062; Sun, 28 May 2000 02:29:29 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <392FF1BE.CE7826D4@newsguy.com> Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 01:03:10 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bosko Milekic Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux Module problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bosko Milekic wrote: > > On my -CURRENT machine, > > FreeBSD jehovah 5.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Sat May 13 15:11:13 EDT > 2000 root@jehovah:/usr/src/sys/compile/JEHOVAH i386 > > (obviously a little out-dated), I have recently noticed unusual > problems with the linux module which, by the way, is of the same date. > The first problem I discovered first came up while building the > StarOffice5 port. After checking the dependency for linux's libc5, it > _spontaneously_ reboots. No panic(), hence no debugger. I've never seen > this sort of behavior before and have no idea what could have caused it. Your problem might be quite simple... For quite a while, now, modules are not being built/installed by either build/installworld nor build/installkernel. I had the exact same problem while installing acroread4, a Linux application, and it vanished as soon as I updated the modules by hand (cd /sys/modules; make all install). -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@another.bsdconspiracy.org "Sentience hurts." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 11: 9:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from echidna.stu.cowan.edu.au (echidna.stu.cowan.edu.au [139.230.33.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5A237B518 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 11:09:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tpnelson@echidna.stu.cowan.edu.au) Received: from student.cowan.edu.au (s212n183.rev.ecu.edu.au [139.230.212.183]) by echidna.stu.cowan.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA3406022; Sun, 28 May 2000 02:11:33 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <39300E44.558B632F@student.cowan.edu.au> Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 02:04:52 +0800 From: Trent Nelson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: dillon@backplane.com Subject: Erroneous mmap() behaviour? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can someone explain to me why mmap() returns an address map you're prohibited from accessing if the fd argument represents a file that has just been created? I have a function that calls the following, where name represents a file that, if it exists, is intended to get written over, and if it doesn't exist, is intended to get created: open(name, (O_RDWR | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC), (S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR)); What I'm trying to do on return of this fd is, pass it through mmap() and allocate a certain amount of memory to encapsulate some data I need to put there - then calling msync() to have the memory buffer flushed back to disk. The mmap() call is: 248: mksd->msize_db = align(mksd->fsize_db); 249: mksd->mmap_db = mmap(NULL, mksd->msize_db, (PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE), MAP_PRIVATE, mksd->fd_db, NULL); If the file exists (size irrespective), then the following happens, which is what we want: bash-2.03$ ls -la database.dat -rw------- 1 tnelson tnelson 0 May 27 23:59 database.dat bash-2.03$ gcc -g -o mksigdata mksd-2.c file_sigs.o bash-2.03$ gdb mksigdata [...] (gdb) break 249 Breakpoint 1 at 0x8048df7: file mksd-2.c, line 249. (gdb) run files.dat database.dat Breakpoint 1, write_database (mksd=0xbfbffb50) at mksd-2.c:249 249 mksd->mmap_db = mmap(NULL, (gdb) n 255 if ((int)mksd->mmap_db == -1) (gdb) display *mksd 1: *mksd = {file_list = {files = 0x280f3000, history = 0x804d030, size = [...] mmap_db = 0x280f4000} ^^^^^^^^^^ This is what we're after. (Check the validity of the returned memory) (gdb) x/4 0x280f4000 0x280f4000: 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 So, it all works fine. As soon as the file is removed and it has to be created, though: bash-2.03$ rm database.dat bash-2.03$ gdb mksigdata [...] mmap_db = 0x280f4000} (gdb) x/4 0x2980f4000 0x280f4000: Error accessing memory address 0x280f4000: Bad address. Which is where my problem lies. Is it me, or mmap()? If it's me, is there any better way of doing what I want to do? (which is essentially allocating memory to be modified, then sync'd to a most probably newly-created file). From what I can see, the code works as it should in Linux. Thanks in advance. Regards, Trent. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 11:21:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BBEB37B8F9 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 11:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA96710; Sat, 27 May 2000 11:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:21:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200005271821.LAA96710@apollo.backplane.com> To: Trent Nelson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Erroneous mmap() behaviour? References: <39300E44.558B632F@student.cowan.edu.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : Can someone explain to me why mmap() returns an address map you're :prohibited from accessing if the fd argument represents a file that has :just been created? : : I have a function that calls the following, where name represents a :file that, if it exists, is intended to get written over, and if it :doesn't exist, is intended to get created: : open(name, : (O_RDWR | O_CREAT | O_TRUNC), : (S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR)); It's perfectly acceptable to mmap() a larger space then a file's actual size, but you will segfault on any page mapped beyond the file's EOF until the file has been extended into it. Writing to an mmap()'d page does NOT extend a file. Only write() or ftruncate() can be used to extend a file. The typical way to use mmap() in this fashion is: open/create the file do the mmap ftruncate() the file to the correct number of bytes access the mmap Some of these operations are interchangeable. You can ftruncate() the file to be larger first, and then mmap, or you can mmap the expected number of bytes first, then ftruncate() the file to that size. What you cannot do is *access* any portion of the mmap that is beyond the file's current EOF. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 11:34:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AEBB37B8F9 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 11:34:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4RJ91p02825; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:09:01 -0700 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Trent Nelson Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, dillon@backplane.com Subject: Re: Erroneous mmap() behaviour? Message-ID: <20000527120901.H28594@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <39300E44.558B632F@student.cowan.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <39300E44.558B632F@student.cowan.edu.au>; from tpnelson@echidna.stu.cowan.edu.au on Sun, May 28, 2000 at 02:04:52AM +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Trent Nelson [000527 11:44] wrote: > > Can someone explain to me why mmap() returns an address map you're > prohibited from accessing if the fd argument represents a file that has > just been created? > [snip incorrect use of mmap] > > Which is where my problem lies. > > Is it me, or mmap()? If it's me, is there any better way of doing what > I want to do? (which is essentially allocating memory to be modified, > then sync'd to a most probably newly-created file). > > From what I can see, the code works as it should in Linux. Linux is wrong. FreeBSD doesn't function as a crutch, you must use mmap() properly. You must use ftruncate() to extend the file before you try to write to an invalid area of the mmap(). -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 12: 5:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [207.252.1.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9040937B9A4 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dennis@etinc.com) Received: from dbsys (dbsys.etinc.com [207.252.1.18]) by etinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA20241; Sat, 27 May 2000 15:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200005271908.PAA20241@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:09:40 -0400 To: John Hay From: Dennis Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200005270754.e4R7stT63383@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> References: <200005262147.PAA92719@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 09:54 AM 5/27/00 +0200, John Hay wrote: >> In message <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> Dennis writes: >> : My 4.0 system doesnt probe ISA devices on my system. >> : >> : Whats the trick? Is there a config requirement with old-style drivers? >> >> They probe great for me. what, specifically, isn't probing? > >He is probably talking about their own driver. In that case you have to >add it to /sys/i386/isa/isa_compat.* or bite the bullet and new-busify >it. Yes....Whose brainstorm was it to use the new convoluted bus nonsense in FreeBSD 4.0? Clearly someone who never wrote a driver with a complex controller with indexed memory mapped registers.Whats next, assembler drivers? isa_compat.h? LOL...what college freshman thought of that? Is it really that difficult to have the prefix_probe() function called based on the config file? Its seems rather humorous that the "generic" bus implementation requires that isa drivers be hacked into the kernel with a build-time include. Very humorous indeed. Is this a temporary condition as was the deboggle in v3.0? any docs on this junk? DB To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 12:16:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-193-112-57.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.112.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC7A37B537 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:16:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00691; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005271918.MAA00691@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Dennis Cc: John Hay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 May 2000 15:09:40 EDT." <200005271908.PAA20241@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:18:44 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At 09:54 AM 5/27/00 +0200, John Hay wrote: > >> In message <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> Dennis writes: > >> : My 4.0 system doesnt probe ISA devices on my system. > >> : > >> : Whats the trick? Is there a config requirement with old-style drivers? > >> > >> They probe great for me. what, specifically, isn't probing? > > > >He is probably talking about their own driver. In that case you have to > >add it to /sys/i386/isa/isa_compat.* or bite the bullet and new-busify > >it. > > Yes....Whose brainstorm was it to use the new convoluted bus nonsense in > FreeBSD 4.0? Clearly someone who never wrote a driver with a complex > controller with indexed memory mapped registers.Whats next, assembler drivers? While you're still rummaging for the Kynar and the wire-wrap tool, the rest of the universe has moved on. Sorry about that, but if we're going to hope to support your hardware, let alone anyone else's, on a machine that was built after paisely manual covers went out of vogue, we need a bus architecture to match. I spend a goodly amount of time supporting vendors writing drivers for FreeBSD, and so far you're about the only curmudgeon that hasn't realised under their own power the advantages of a structured design. -- \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 12:42:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF9F37B9AD for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:42:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Received: from nlsys.demon.co.uk ([158.152.125.33] helo=herring.nlsystems.com) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12vmTY-0002G9-0U; Sat, 27 May 2000 20:42:24 +0100 Received: from salmon.nlsystems.com (salmon.nlsystems.com [10.0.0.3]) by herring.nlsystems.com (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA62198; Sat, 27 May 2000 20:49:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from dfr@nlsystems.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 20:47:50 +0100 (BST) From: Doug Rabson To: Dennis Cc: John Hay , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed In-Reply-To: <200005271908.PAA20241@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 May 2000, Dennis wrote: > At 09:54 AM 5/27/00 +0200, John Hay wrote: > >> In message <200005261723.NAA16495@etinc.com> Dennis writes: > >> : My 4.0 system doesnt probe ISA devices on my system. > >> : > >> : Whats the trick? Is there a config requirement with old-style drivers? > >> > >> They probe great for me. what, specifically, isn't probing? > > > >He is probably talking about their own driver. In that case you have to > >add it to /sys/i386/isa/isa_compat.* or bite the bullet and new-busify > >it. > > Yes....Whose brainstorm was it to use the new convoluted bus nonsense in > FreeBSD 4.0? Clearly someone who never wrote a driver with a complex > controller with indexed memory mapped registers.Whats next, assembler drivers? Mine. > > isa_compat.h? LOL...what college freshman thought of that? Is it really > that difficult to have the prefix_probe() function called based on the > config file? This is just a list of drivers using the legacy apis. Since no new drivers will be using those apis, this file will gradualy disappear and certainly no new drivers will be added to it. > > Its seems rather humorous that the "generic" bus implementation requires > that isa drivers be hacked into the kernel with a build-time include. Very > humorous indeed. Is this a temporary condition as was the deboggle in v3.0? Whatever. > > any docs on this junk? RTFM. -- Doug Rabson Mail: dfr@nlsystems.com Nonlinear Systems Ltd. Phone: +44 20 8442 9037 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 12:57:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jade.chc-chimes.com (jade.chc-chimes.com [216.28.46.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C46E37B568 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from billf@jade.chc-chimes.com) Received: by jade.chc-chimes.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0DF841C5C; Sat, 27 May 2000 15:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:57:31 -0400 From: Bill Fumerola To: hackers@freebsd.org, dennis@etinc.com Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed (fwd) Message-ID: <20000527155731.V86725@jade.chc-chimes.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from scanner@jurai.net on Sat, May 27, 2000 at 03:51:24PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, May 27, 2000 at 03:51:24PM -0400, dennis@etinc.com wrote: > Yes....Whose brainstorm was it to use the new convoluted bus nonsense in > FreeBSD 4.0? Clearly someone who never wrote a driver with a complex > controller with indexed memory mapped registers.Whats next, assembler drivers? [...] > isa_compat.h? LOL...what college freshman thought of that? Is it really > that difficult to have the prefix_probe() function called based on the > config file? [...] > Its seems rather humorous that the "generic" bus implementation requires > that isa drivers be hacked into the kernel with a build-time include. Very > humorous indeed. Is this a temporary condition as was the deboggle in v3.0? It's these kinds of close-minded, stupid-ass comments that make me giggle with delight as I buy from lanmedia instead of etinc for T1 cards. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect / Computer Horizons Corp - CVM e-mail: billf@chc-chimes.com / billf@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 12:58: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lucifer.bart.nl (lucifer.bart.nl [194.158.168.74]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2982437B62D for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 12:58:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asmodai@lucifer.bart.nl) Received: (from asmodai@localhost) by lucifer.bart.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA43419; Sat, 27 May 2000 21:57:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from asmodai) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 21:57:35 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: Dennis Cc: John Hay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed Message-ID: <20000527215735.A43304@lucifer.bart.nl> References: <200005262147.PAA92719@harmony.village.org> <200005270754.e4R7stT63383@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> <200005271908.PAA20241@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005271908.PAA20241@etinc.com>; from dennis@etinc.com on Sat, May 27, 2000 at 03:09:40PM -0400 Organisation: VIA Net.Works The Netherlands Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -On [20000527 21:06], Dennis (dennis@etinc.com) wrote: > >Its seems rather humorous that the "generic" bus implementation requires >that isa drivers be hacked into the kernel with a build-time include. Very >humorous indeed. Is this a temporary condition as was the deboggle in v3.0? Yeah I laugh my ass off. You figure out at what or whom. Anyways, for a programmer you're terribly bad at dissecting sourcecode. >any docs on this junk? As a matter of fact, some. Doug Rabson wrote some starting manual pages. [thanks] I then updated some and wrote some others. And I am working with Alexander Langer to get more into the system. [thanks] Happy to serve your needs on this junk. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Network- and systemadministrator VIA Net.Works The Netherlands BSD: Technical excellence at its best http://www.via-net-works.nl Don't try to find the Answer where there ain't no Question here... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 14:23:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from front6.grolier.fr (front6.grolier.fr [194.158.96.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E9737B9FE for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 14:23:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from groudier@club-internet.fr) Received: from ppp-169-224.villette.club-internet.fr (ppp-169-224.villette.club-internet.fr [195.36.169.224]) by front6.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id XAA26054; Sat, 27 May 2000 23:23:12 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 22:59:31 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Roudier?= X-Sender: groudier@linux.local To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Cc: Dennis , John Hay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed In-Reply-To: <20000527215735.A43304@lucifer.bart.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 May 2000, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > -On [20000527 21:06], Dennis (dennis@etinc.com) wrote: > > > >Its seems rather humorous that the "generic" bus implementation requires > >that isa drivers be hacked into the kernel with a build-time include. Ve= ry > >humorous indeed. Is this a temporary condition as was the deboggle in v3= =2E0? >=20 > Yeah I laugh my ass off. You figure out at what or whom. Hmmm... When I see all those bus abstractions floating around in different O/Ses, I donnot laugh at all, but I am sad. In order to work correctly, it is the concrete device driver that must be aware of what actually happens about IO and DMA. Thinking that generic bus abstraction can be clever enough to deal with all that is a serious mistake in my opinion. A device support is a pair that consists in a software driver + a device that may incorporate firmware, and both parts may need to have some consistant view of some data in some place in order to work correctly. Existing bus abstractions tend to let think that the same software driver can deal with different buses, bridges or IO methods without having to care about how these things actually behave, notably regarding buffering and ordering rules. This is untrue. Existing bus abstractions may let driver writer think that everything that addresses bridges, bus specific and arch specific properties is handled transparently given that the right abstract method is called in the right place. This is untrue. Existing bus transactions may let think that driver writers donnot have=20 to care with ordering rules and coherency issues between transactions in=20 both directions targetting device and memory. This is untrue. I donnot know how the right bus generic abstraction could be, but for now, all those I saw donnot look statisfying to me, and it seems to me that they may lead to having numerous quite aesthetic drivers that are just broken due to driver (writer?) relying too much on some supposed=20 generic cleverness of the bus abstraction that does not happen.=20 When some weak memory ordering is involved, the only way to make things right and not too sub-optimal is to insert explicit barriers in the driver code. Flushing everything after the IO from the 'bus write/read' abstraction is broken. For example, if I want a WRITE TO MEMORY followed by a WRITE TO AN IO REGISTER performed from the C code to be seen consistently from the device (bus), most IO abstractions I have seen will do the bad work by just performing a memory barrier (or some additionnal barrier) after the WRITE TO THE IO REGISTER. If driver writer is not aware of this kind of subtleties, very ennoying bugs will be generated all around, in my opinion. G=E9rard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 14:40:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B3037BA01 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 14:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA98052; Sat, 27 May 2000 14:42:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Dennis Cc: John Hay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 May 2000 15:09:40 EDT." <200005271908.PAA20241@etinc.com> Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 14:42:34 -0700 Message-ID: <98049.959463754@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Yes....Whose brainstorm was it to use the new convoluted bus nonsense in > FreeBSD 4.0? Clearly someone who never wrote a driver with a complex > controller with indexed memory mapped registers.Whats next, assembler drivers If you cannot conduct yourself in a professional manner in these mailing lists, and my definition of "professional" here is "without needless invective or the usage of language virtually guaranteed to alienate anyone who reads your messages", then perhaps you should simply refrain from posting. I think everyone here has seen enough of your invective to last them several lifetimes and if insults are your primary objective then take it on the road with Don Rickles, stop attempting to communicate with those who's primary focus is engineering. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 14:44:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F43037B9FE for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 14:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29474; Sat, 27 May 2000 15:44:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA00751; Sat, 27 May 2000 15:43:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005272143.PAA00751@harmony.village.org> To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Roudier?= Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 May 2000 22:59:31 +0200." References: Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:43:54 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Roudier?= writes: : Existing bus abstractions tend to let think that the same software driver : can deal with different buses, bridges or IO methods without having to : care about how these things actually behave, notably regarding buffering : and ordering rules. This is untrue. That statement is false. We have several drivers in the tree that work on memory mapped or I/O mapped devices attached to many different types of buses. NetBSD takes this even farther than we do. : Existing bus abstractions may let driver writer think that everything that : addresses bridges, bus specific and arch specific properties is handled : transparently given that the right abstract method is called in the right : place. This is untrue. But it does handle them transparently. : Existing bus transactions may let think that driver writers donnot have : to care with ordering rules and coherency issues between transactions in : both directions targetting device and memory. : This is untrue. NetBSD's busdma does a great job of this. DMA is a horrible issue with some machines donig it in virtual address space, and others doing it in physical address space with no cache coherency. NetBSD does it just fine and we're basically using the NetBSD interface. : For example, if I want a WRITE TO MEMORY followed by a WRITE TO AN IO : REGISTER performed from the C code to be seen consistently from the device : (bus), most IO abstractions I have seen will do the bad work by just : performing a memory barrier (or some additionnal barrier) after the WRITE : TO THE IO REGISTER. If driver writer is not aware of this kind of : subtleties, very ennoying bugs will be generated all around, in my : opinion. Most drivers do not do this. Those that do need to write to both will use the proper tags. When the proper tags are used in the bus space stuff, the proper barriers will be inserted at the right time (eg after the write to memory) on those architectures that need it. Most of these complaints are based on busspace, rather than the newbus. bus space came from NetBSD and is working their very well. FreeBSD has an older version of bus space in its tree. I've tried to update it in the past, but the newbus stuff and the new NetBSD bus space stuff overlap somewhat making it hard to modernize the busspace stuff in FreeBSD. We will have to do it with the Sparc or MIPS ports that are in the wings, but for now we are fat and happy. :-( Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 14:57:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from field.videotron.net (field.videotron.net [205.151.222.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E2937B525 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 14:57:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmilekic@dsuper.net) Received: from modemcable009.62-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.net ([24.201.62.9]) by field.videotron.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.12.14.10.29.p8) with ESMTP id <0FV800NQGNJH0P@field.videotron.net> for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 27 May 2000 17:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:56:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bosko Milekic Subject: Re: Linux Module problems In-reply-to: <20000527140011.2352D1CE1@overcee.netplex.com.au> X-Sender: bmilekic@jehovah.technokratis.com To: Peter Wemm Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 May 2000, Peter Wemm wrote: > The ipfw module does the same thing too. I discovered this while testing > the kernel side of the recent module changes. Although the brandelf fixed the spontaneous reboot problem, I can still reproduce the page fault panic with the quick kldunload/kldload linux. I tried the same thing on the ipfw module, but it seems to be working fine (i.e. no panic). -- Bosko Milekic * pages.infinit.net/bmilekic/index.html * www.technokratis.com bmilekic@dsuper.net * bmilekic@technokratis.com * b.milekic@marianopolis.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 16: 5:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from front6m.grolier.fr (front6m.grolier.fr [195.36.216.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A542D37B64F for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 16:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from groudier@club-internet.fr) Received: from ppp-172-8.villette.club-internet.fr (ppp-172-8.villette.club-internet.fr [195.36.172.8]) by front6m.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id BAA13474; Sun, 28 May 2000 01:05:37 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 00:41:56 +0200 (CEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Roudier?= X-Sender: groudier@linux.local To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed In-Reply-To: <200005272143.PAA00751@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 27 May 2000, Warner Losh wrote: > In message =3D?ISO= -8859-1?Q?G=3DE9rard_Roudier?=3D writes: > : Existing bus abstractions tend to let think that the same software driv= er > : can deal with different buses, bridges or IO methods without having to > : care about how these things actually behave, notably regarding bufferin= g > : and ordering rules. This is untrue. >=20 > That statement is false. We have several drivers in the tree that > work on memory mapped or I/O mapped devices attached to many different > types of buses. NetBSD takes this even farther than we do. >=20 > : Existing bus abstractions may let driver writer think that everything t= hat > : addresses bridges, bus specific and arch specific properties is handled > : transparently given that the right abstract method is called in the rig= ht > : place. This is untrue. >=20 > But it does handle them transparently. Speaking about bus_space_*(): Does it make the thing follow the PCI ordering rules? Very probably not since it is impossible on some systems. Typically, a driver may want to order some operations and also not break post buffering each time a write is performed. It may for example want to order some operations, but not flush all writes immediately. I didn't see how to tell bus about that. May-be bus_space handles transparently something that is not clearly specified.:) It seems that some MIPS machines only flush bridge buffering when a interrupt is raised. I didn't remember where I read that. For those ones, the only way to have workable drivers is to let the device stall until the driver will service the interrupt. If such machines exists, there is probably no way for any bus abstraction to make drivers, that run concurrently to the device firmware regarding bus transactions, to work properly. > : Existing bus transactions may let think that driver writers donnot have= =20 > : to care with ordering rules and coherency issues between transactions i= n=20 > : both directions targetting device and memory. > : This is untrue. >=20 > NetBSD's busdma does a great job of this. DMA is a horrible issue > with some machines donig it in virtual address space, and others doing > it in physical address space with no cache coherency. NetBSD does it > just fine and we're basically using the NetBSD interface. I mostly thought about bus_space(). I am quite aware about DMA issues on some machines. > : For example, if I want a WRITE TO MEMORY followed by a WRITE TO AN IO > : REGISTER performed from the C code to be seen consistently from the dev= ice > : (bus), most IO abstractions I have seen will do the bad work by just > : performing a memory barrier (or some additionnal barrier) after the WRI= TE > : TO THE IO REGISTER. If driver writer is not aware of this kind of > : subtleties, very ennoying bugs will be generated all around, in my > : opinion. >=20 > Most drivers do not do this. Those that do need to write to both will > use the proper tags. When the proper tags are used in the bus space > stuff, the proper barriers will be inserted at the right time (eg > after the write to memory) on those architectures that need it. Hmmm... That's the point I disagree on, btw. Inserting implicit barriers in the back of drivers can only be either sub-optimal or sometime not match driver expectations about ordering. Bus interface should allow more flexibility to drivers regarding ordering, in my opinion. > Most of these complaints are based on busspace, rather than the > newbus. bus space came from NetBSD and is working their very well. > FreeBSD has an older version of bus space in its tree. I've tried to > update it in the past, but the newbus stuff and the new NetBSD bus > space stuff overlap somewhat making it hard to modernize the busspace > stuff in FreeBSD. We will have to do it with the Sparc or MIPS ports > that are in the wings, but for now we are fat and happy. :-( I guess that porting to MIPS should need to complexify a lot the bus interface, but I bet that this probably will not be enough and that changes in some drivers will be needed. I donnot have NetBSD. If you can give me some pointers to relevant files that address the bus interface, I will try to download them and look into. I am only interested in the specification, so header files should be enough, unless a documentation exists. By the way, as I wrote in my previous mail, I am unable to propose a better interface. I only wanted to point out that bus abstractions are far from being perfect. They make portability possible without too much code complexity, but when working on a driver, I think we must not forget the reality of what actually happens inside the machine. Regards, G=E9rard. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 17:41:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73BC637B590 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 17:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29961; Sat, 27 May 2000 18:41:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA01578; Sat, 27 May 2000 18:41:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200005280041.SAA01578@harmony.village.org> To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Roudier?= Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 May 2000 00:41:56 +0200." References: Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:41:35 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Roudier?= writes: : It seems that some MIPS machines only flush bridge buffering when a : interrupt is raised. I didn't remember where I read that. For those ones, : the only way to have workable drivers is to let the device stall until the : driver will service the interrupt. If such machines exists, there is : probably no way for any bus abstraction to make drivers, that run : concurrently to the device firmware regarding bus transactions, to work : properly. I've seen several MIPS designs, and I've never seen one that do that. I have seen several where you have to be extremely careful about DMA. Generally MIPS designs have cache coherency problems. When one flushes the cache, these bridges should flush at the same time. : Hmmm... That's the point I disagree on, btw. Inserting implicit barriers : in the back of drivers can only be either sub-optimal or sometime not : match driver expectations about ordering. Bus interface should allow more : flexibility to drivers regarding ordering, in my opinion. The bus_space interface in NetBSD makes this explicit. : I guess that porting to MIPS should need to complexify a lot the bus : interface, but I bet that this probably will not be enough and that : changes in some drivers will be needed. For FreeBSD, yes. For NetBSD many drivers no changes were needed. : I donnot have NetBSD. If you can give me some pointers to relevant files : that address the bus interface, I will try to download them and look into. : I am only interested in the specification, so header files should be : enough, unless a documentation exists. src/sys/arch/*/include/bus*.h. : By the way, as I wrote in my previous mail, I am unable to propose a : better interface. I only wanted to point out that bus abstractions are far : from being perfect. They make portability possible without too much code : complexity, but when working on a driver, I think we must not forget the : reality of what actually happens inside the machine. NetBSD's experience has shown that this is mostly possible with very little work. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat May 27 18:34:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.cdrom.com (adsl-63-193-112-57.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.193.112.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE65437B512 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 18:34:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Received: from mass.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01669; Sat, 27 May 2000 18:36:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msmith@mass.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <200005280136.SAA01669@mass.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Roudier?= Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven , Dennis , John Hay , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 4.0 - Isa devices not being probed In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 May 2000 22:59:31 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:36:12 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Existing bus abstractions tend to let think that the same software driv= er > can deal with different buses, bridges or IO methods without having to > care about how these things actually behave, notably regarding bufferin= g > and ordering rules. This is untrue. A good bus abstraction lets you care as much or as little as necessary. = The NetBSD framework (which we use) allows you to do this. > Existing bus abstractions may let driver writer think that everything t= hat > addresses bridges, bus specific and arch specific properties is handled= > transparently given that the right abstract method is called in the rig= ht > place. This is untrue. This is called "a naive driver author", and it doesn't matter how good or= = bad the bus abstraction is; these people can write BASIC in any language.= > Existing bus transactions may let think that driver writers donnot have= = > to care with ordering rules and coherency issues between transactions i= n = > both directions targetting device and memory. > This is untrue. See above. > I donnot know how the right bus generic abstraction could be, but for > now, all those I saw donnot look statisfying to me, and it seems to me > that they may lead to having numerous quite aesthetic drivers that are > just broken due to driver (writer?) relying too much on some supposed = > generic cleverness of the bus abstraction that does not happen. = See above. > When some weak memory ordering is involved, the only way to make things= > right and not too sub-optimal is to insert explicit barriers in the dri= ver > code. Flushing everything after the IO from the 'bus write/read' > abstraction is broken. Nobody that I'm aware of does anything this stupid. We certainly expect = the driver author to care about macro-ordering of bus operations. > For example, if I want a WRITE TO MEMORY followed by a WRITE TO AN IO > REGISTER performed from the C code to be seen consistently from the dev= ice > (bus), most IO abstractions I have seen will do the bad work by just > performing a memory barrier (or some additionnal barrier) after the WRI= TE > TO THE IO REGISTER. If driver writer is not aware of this kind of > subtleties, very ennoying bugs will be generated all around, in my > opinion. Very few architectures even support I/O registers, and the only one that = most people care about already guarantees write ordering in hardware. = The example you're positing is basically a non-issue, with the exception = of operation re-ordering by the compiler (and for this see above). -- = \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\ Mike Smith \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself, \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message