From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 4:36:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B186F14DCA for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:36:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@bsd4us.org) Received: (from lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13329 for freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:32:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:32:09 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin Message-Id: <200001181232.HAA13329@bsd4us.org> To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: hello ello llo lo o Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Breaking the silence is a tough thing to do. My roommie and I have kinda sorta adopted the port to the 32bit SPARC architectures. We consider ourselves in the research phase of this little endeavour. I'll do a quick dump of our status, and then ask a few questions (is there anyone even here?). We have, to date,the following hardware fully available for development and testing: (1) SPARCstation 5, 32mb RAM, one 85mhz CPU (1) SPARCstation 10, 80mb RAM, one 60mhz CPU (1) SPARCstation 2, 64mb RAM, one 40mhz CPU (1) SPARCstation 330, 40mb RAM, one 25mhz CPU (1) SPARCserver 470, 128mb ECC RAM, one 33mhz CPU a plethora of keyboards and mice, including type-4 kb & opt. mice, type-5 kbs of multiple layouts, type-5 opt. and mech. mice, and a single type-6 kb and crossbow mech mouse. The 2, 5, and 10 all have cgsix fbs. The 330 has a p4-cgsix and a p4-bwtwo. The 470 has no fb (currently). I have a pair of sm71 cpus en route for the SS10. There is also, for what it's worth, a pair of B&W 20" (or is it 19") tubes, and a pair of 17" trinitrons. Wh book called "SPARC Architecture, Assembly Language Programming, and C," by a guy surnamed Paul. We also have D&I of BSD4.4 (a great book, I recommend it for everyone interested in BSD). We have absolutely no clue what to do next. We both lean towards OpenBSD as an alternate OS. The 2, 5, and 330 are all running 2.5 or 2.6. The 10 has Sol7 on it, and I plan to dual-boot it to 2.3, as well, so I can get an OS on the 470 (nobody but Sun has an OS that will run on it, right now, because apparently nobody knows anything about the 470 mmu). Wait - that's confusing... the 2, 5, and 330 are running OpenBSD. The 10 (And hopefully soon, the 470) is running Solaris. If it matters, I lean towards OpenBSD because early on in my SPARC life, the NetBSD crowd was very rude to me, while Theo De Raadt (sp?) kinda showed me the ropes - this was in reference to me trying like hell to get the 330 netbooted into the first OS I could. ANYWAYS... My first question is about the "early boot code" on the site: How far along is this code - will it actually boot a machine? And, what is the possibility that we can reverse-engineer that code into something that will run on a sun4(|c|m)? Would it be smarter to start from the 4.4-BSDlite2 code and work that up to -current? Or should we work from something a little more contemporary, like Open-, Net-, or (shudder) the Linux kernel sources? Has anyone yet taken responsibility as a leader in the SPARC porting efforts? Has anyone besides Jason Evans written any code for this port? Next battery: has anyone successfully built and tested a cross-compiler for this effort? I mean, besides the information in the FAQ - it sounds as though Jason has/had a cygnus setup. Would it be beneficial if I used my site as a general knowledge collection area and possibly a CVS server for the project (that's what I have planned it for, anyways)? I'm extremelly anxious to get moving with this, but I don't want to be the proverbial headless chicken. (damn, I hate mailx - look, another typo). <:) Lyndon (http://www.bsd4us.org/) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 17:53:56 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [209.191.58.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6167714C12 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:53:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@bg-tc-ppp735.monmouth.com) Received: from bg-tc-ppp735.monmouth.com (root@bg-tc-ppp735.monmouth.com [209.191.63.171]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04742; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:49:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by bg-tc-ppp735.monmouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01926; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:51:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <200001190151.UAA01926@bg-tc-ppp735.monmouth.com> Subject: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me In-Reply-To: from freebsd-sparc-digest at "Jan 18, 2000 04:36:54 am" To: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:51:07 -0500 (EST) Cc: lgriffin@bsd4us.org Reply-To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 732-935-0629 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:32:09 -0500 (EST) > From: Lyndon Griffin > Subject: hello ello llo lo o > > Breaking the silence is a tough thing to do. My roommie and I have kinda > sorta adopted the port to the 32bit SPARC architectures. We consider > ourselves in the research phase of this little endeavour. I'll do > a quick dump of our status, and then ask a few questions (is there anyone > even here?). Glad to see someone's interested in this one. Well, I'm lurking with a Sparc IPX and a Sparc2 clone (Opus) with 64mb memory each... I couldn't do the code... but I'm willing to work on docs and testing. I've got 10 years of sysadmin work on SunOS, Solaris, BSD, SysV... so I could work on installation docs and such. I've got Sparc 2's with the SparcUP chip and some Sparc 10's I could test on at work. bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bpechter@monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org|pechter@pechter.bsdonline.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 18:12: 6 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.via-net-works.net.ar (ns2.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE15115199 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Recabarren!fpscha@ns2.via-net-works.net.ar) Received: by ns2.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29034; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:20:35 -0300 (GMT) >Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by localhost.schapachnik.com.ar (8.8.8/8.8.5) id WAA00675; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:23:47 -0300 (ART) Message-Id: <200001190123.WAA00675@localhost.schapachnik.com.ar> Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o In-Reply-To: <200001181232.HAA13329@bsd4us.org> from Lyndon Griffin at "Jan 18, 0 07:32:09 am" To: lgriffin@bsd4us.org (Lyndon Griffin) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:23:47 -0300 (ART) Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Fernando P. Schapachnik" X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6 - http://www.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org En un mensaje anterior Lyndon Griffin escribió: > ANYWAYS... My first question is about the "early boot code" on the site: > How far along is this code - will it actually boot a machine? And, what > is the possibility that we can reverse-engineer that code into something > that will run on a sun4(|c|m)? Would it be smarter to start from the > 4.4-BSDlite2 code and work that up to -current? Or should we work from > something a little more contemporary, like Open-, Net-, or (shudder) the > Linux kernel sources? Has anyone yet taken responsibility as a leader > in the SPARC porting efforts? Has anyone besides Jason Evans written any > code for this port? I think the answer is: go straight ahead for -current, as this is the only one the core team will be willing to merge into the main tree. > > Next battery: has anyone successfully built and tested a cross-compiler > for this effort? I mean, besides the information in the FAQ - it sounds > as though Jason has/had a cygnus setup. Would it be beneficial if I used > my site as a general knowledge collection area and possibly a CVS server > for the project (that's what I have planned it for, anyways)? If I'm not wrong all your questions have appeared before in this list, and most of them have answers. I suggest you should read the archives (there aren't so many messages). Good luck! Fernando P. Schapachnik fernando@schapachnik.com.ar | Atención: Mensaje generado en entorno libre de productos M$. No contiene | | HTML, adjuntos en Word ni basura similar. Leer con tranquilidad. | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 18:26:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from canonware.com (canonware.com [207.20.242.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C2A3714EDA for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:26:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: (qmail 36056 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Jan 2000 02:19:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:19:28 -0800 From: Jason Evans To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o Message-ID: <20000118181928.F27689@sturm.canonware.com> References: <200001181232.HAA13329@bsd4us.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <200001181232.HAA13329@bsd4us.org>; from lgriffin@bsd4us.org on Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:32:09AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:32:09AM -0500, Lyndon Griffin wrote: > ANYWAYS... My first question is about the "early boot code" on the site: > How far along is this code - will it actually boot a machine? And, what > is the possibility that we can reverse-engineer that code into something > that will run on a sun4(|c|m)? Would it be smarter to start from the > 4.4-BSDlite2 code and work that up to -current? Or should we work from > something a little more contemporary, like Open-, Net-, or (shudder) the > Linux kernel sources? Has anyone yet taken responsibility as a leader > in the SPARC porting efforts? Has anyone besides Jason Evans written any > code for this port? > > Next battery: has anyone successfully built and tested a cross-compiler > for this effort? I mean, besides the information in the FAQ - it sounds > as though Jason has/had a cygnus setup. Would it be beneficial if I used > my site as a general knowledge collection area and possibly a CVS server > for the project (that's what I have planned it for, anyways)? As of right now, there is no leader for this effort. I have tried several times to get my named dissociated from the SPARC port, but the FAQ persists despite my efforts to get it taken down. I didn't save any of the code from the work I did. Most of what I accomplished was getting a working cross-building environment. (It takes an act of God to buy Intel hardware at Sun, so I had to host my work on Solaris.) This isn't nearly the problem it once was, because it is 1) now possible to run the NetBSD sparc64 port, and 2) much of Cygnus's work was folded into egcs, which is now gcc. So, getting a working cross-build environment is much easier now. If you're looking for direction, you might look at how the initial stages of the Alpha port were done. From what I understand, the porters basically started out with NetBSD and iteratively replaced portions of the system with FreeBSD. Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 18:47:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from www0d.netaddress.usa.net (www0d.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B606114C99 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:47:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lamester@netscape.net) Received: (qmail 1651 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2000 02:17:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20000119021700.1650.qmail@www0d.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.33 by www0d for [130.123.128.4] via web-mailer(M3.3.1.96) on Wed Jan 19 02:17:00 GMT 2000 Date: 19 Jan 00 15:17:00 NZDT From: David Ferry To: Jason Evans , Lyndon Griffin Subject: Re: [Re: hello ello llo lo o] Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.1.96) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org To see this read the freebsd-alpha mail archives starting jan 1998 ( I th= ink). These first few months give key info on how they did the alpha port. They put as much of the userspace across running under the netbsd kernel.= ie run netbsd, replace binutils+gcc etc with freebsd ones. Kernel work seemed like it started later. I worked with a friend a year and a half ago porting linux to the sun 3/8= 0. We did it the opposite way around. It may help you to read an alternative. That was we started with the kernel boot code assembly. Got it initializi= ng the mmu right which under linux meant that the mm system was in place, th= en supported the console+ serial ports, ethernet. Then configured the kernel= to nfs mount root on another box to get userspace with binutils etc targetin= g a m68k box. Later someone else did scsi. Then we graduated and lost access to the box= en despite the fact they had dead id proms :( Putting my neck out this made far more sense for us than porting user spa= ce when most of the work is going to be kernel space anyway (especially considering you are doing sparc32's just use a cross compiler and target = sparc 32). =46rom bsd documentation I have read the mmu code is multiplatform as lon= g as the pmap layer is implemented on the target platform. This was true of fr= eebsd as it came from 4.4bsd which had the pmap layer (dunno anymore) -David > If you're looking for direction, you might look at how the initial stag= es > of the Alpha port were done. From what I understand, the porters basic= ally > started out with NetBSD and iteratively replaced portions of the system= > with FreeBSD. > = > Jason > = lamester@netscape.net ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 19: 6:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F6E14E14 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:06:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12523 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:01:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:01:38 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o In-Reply-To: <20000118181928.F27689@sturm.canonware.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From the "for what it's worth" department: Good info, Jason. Thanks. I would like, if there are no strong oppositions, to take ownership of the FreeBSD/SPARC(32) porting efforts. I must stress that this is only for the 32bit SPARC architectures, as I am not yet fortunate enough to own any sun4u machines. I don't know to what extent the two can co-exist in a single port - based on the various other distributions (OpenBSD, NetBSD, Debian, and RedHat), I think this may be a smart move. Comments on that are welcome, and we can certainly open it up for discussion on a new thread. In the next few days, I will set up a dedicated area on my web site to handle port status information, FAQ, etc. I'll post the URL here. I can also set up a CVS server there and start tracking -current. Even if I'm not heading up the show, these are valuable resources for any project. I think leveraging existing code from any available (by available, I mean borrowing from Net-, Open-, and Free- existing code base) source is the quickest route to a running system. We can re-engineer anything not specifically FreeBSD-core compliant prior to designating a release. I must admit that I have almost -zero- experience as a SPARC coder. In other words, I have no clue what I'm getting myself into, here. The really twisted thing is that is my reason for doing it. Can I get a sound-off of those who are ready to start working immediately? It would probably be a good idea to post the "team" information on the status page. <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 19:29:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFFC15153 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:29:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA71136; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:29:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:29:38 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o Message-ID: <20000118192938.H67844@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <20000118181928.F27689@sturm.canonware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre1i In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 10:01:38PM -0500, Lyndon Griffin wrote: > In the next few days, I will set up a dedicated area on my web site to > handle port status information, FAQ, etc. Why not just pass me the webdata and I'll post it in www.freebsd.org, replacing the old out of date stuff. IMHO, it is best to keep all the FreeBSD technical information on www.freebsd.org since people already know to come searching there. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 19:35:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F7315290 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:35:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02255; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:30:37 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: "David O'Brien" Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o In-Reply-To: <20000118192938.H67844@relay.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sounds great. I'll start working on some stuff this evening, probably get you a page - maybe two - by Friday. No, it doesn't take me that long to write HTML ;) Is there a standard FreeBSD.org HTML template, or should I wing it? <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, David O'Brien wrote: > On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 10:01:38PM -0500, Lyndon Griffin wrote: > > In the next few days, I will set up a dedicated area on my web site to > > handle port status information, FAQ, etc. > > Why not just pass me the webdata and I'll post it in www.freebsd.org, > replacing the old out of date stuff. IMHO, it is best to keep all the > FreeBSD technical information on www.freebsd.org since people already > know to come searching there. > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 19:36:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7484E152A2 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:36:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA71217; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:36:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:36:39 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: "David O'Brien" , freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o Message-ID: <20000118193639.K67844@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <20000118192938.H67844@relay.nuxi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre1i In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 10:30:37PM -0500, Lyndon Griffin wrote: > Is there a standard FreeBSD.org HTML template, Not that I know of. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 22:58:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B19151EE for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:58:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id WAA27446; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:57:53 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id WAA18205; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:57:53 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id WAA26267; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:56:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38856163.664AFF6D@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:01:55 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org, lgriffin@bsd4us.org Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me References: <200001190151.UAA01926@bg-tc-ppp735.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bill Pechter wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:32:09 -0500 (EST) > > From: Lyndon Griffin > > Subject: hello ello llo lo o > > > > Breaking the silence is a tough thing to do. My roommie and I have kinda > > sorta adopted the port to the 32bit SPARC architectures. We consider > > ourselves in the research phase of this little endeavour. I'll do > > a quick dump of our status, and then ask a few questions (is there anyone > > even here?). > > Glad to see someone's interested in this one. > > Well, I'm lurking with a Sparc IPX and a Sparc2 clone (Opus) > with 64mb memory each... I've managed to accumulate a 4/110, an IPC, and an IPX in the past year. I've also managed to accumulate a year's worth of SPARC assembler programming, I'm sure that will come in handy every once in a while. I'm willing to pitch in with locore.s and other assembler bits, as needed. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Tue Jan 18 23:11:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.visi.com (baal.visi.com [209.98.98.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058E114D68 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mtempel@mail.visi.com) Received: from dirac (dirac.fofx.org [209.98.236.73]) by mail.visi.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id BAA07537; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:11:08 -0600 (CST) Posted-Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:11:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <003501bf624b$5c2c0040$49ec62d1@dirac> From: "Mark Tempel" To: "Lyndon Griffin" Cc: References: Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:03:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyndon Griffin" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:01 PM Subject: Re: hello ello llo lo o > >From the "for what it's worth" department: > > Good info, Jason. Thanks. > > I would like, if there are no strong oppositions, to take ownership of the > FreeBSD/SPARC(32) porting efforts. I must stress that this is only for > the 32bit SPARC architectures, as I am not yet fortunate enough to own any > sun4u machines. I don't know to what extent the two can co-exist in a > single port - based on the various other distributions (OpenBSD, NetBSD, > Debian, and RedHat), I think this may be a smart move. Comments on that > are welcome, and we can certainly open it up for discussion on a new > thread. If you are willing to take ownership of this port, I have no objections. > In the next few days, I will set up a dedicated area on my web site to > handle port status information, FAQ, etc. I'll post the URL here. I can > also set up a CVS server there and start tracking -current. Even if I'm > not heading up the show, these are valuable resources for any project. > > I think leveraging existing code from any available (by available, I mean > borrowing from Net-, Open-, and Free- existing code base) source is the > quickest route to a running system. We can re-engineer anything not > specifically FreeBSD-core compliant prior to designating a release. I have been reading the alpha port mailing list archieves for the past couple of days. It appears that they started by having a few (maybe one) people start looking into porting the kernel while alot of other people were busy building the userland on a system bootstrapped off of a NetBSD install. Look for the post in the Jan 11 1998 archieves. The message is from John Birrell with the subject: Bootstrapping FreeBSD/Alpha. He basically gives a roadmap on how to do this (the userland) work. I noticed that work using a cross compiler was abandoned ( I think).... Any Comments? Am I wrong about this? > I must admit that I have almost -zero- experience as a SPARC coder. In > other words, I have no clue what I'm getting myself into, here. The > really twisted thing is that is my reason for doing it. I have worked on several software systems both in my life as a student and in my professional life, but I too am new to something of this magnitude. > Can I get a sound-off of those who are ready to start working immediately? > It would probably be a good idea to post the "team" information on the > status page. I have a SS5 and was planning to try to bootstrap a userland development environment off of NetBSD (following the steps John Birrell used on the post I mentioned above) over the next few weeks. I have never done this before so I am not sure about a timeline for completion of the initial tasks involved in this. I believe that there have been several starts on this project in the past. If I am duplicating work foolishly please let me know. I am open to (and am hoping to hear) any comments. Thanks, Mark Tempel mtempel@visi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 0:48:35 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B62B1520B for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:48:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13951 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 03:43:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 03:43:52 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: 32 vs. 64 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hmmm... I didn't find a question like this in the archives, so here goes: Given that Solaris 7 (and 8) can run both 32bit and 64bit executables, can a sun4u boot off a 32bit-only kernel? I assume the answer is yes, since I have (at work, not at my disposal) an Ultra 2 that runs Solaris 2.5.1. Maybe I'm mistaken about the nature of Solaris' gradual movement to 64bit, and Solaris 2.5.1 is indeed a 64bit os? Where I'm heading with this is that it may not be so difficult to put all sparc architectures into the same source node - make a single kernel that can boot all suns, and have generic kernels that are tailored for each architecture or family. I know this is *way* ahead of where we are, but if this is a possible goal, maybe we should start planning early to support it. My understanding of the way that sun accomplishes this is that the install CD boots from a different slice depending on your architecture. I know that comparing ctimes across different platforms, same version of OS, yields totally different results, but the Solaris literature I've read suggests that for many programs, a separate build for each architecture is not necessary. Am I making any sense? Can anyone lend suggestions on building a cross-compiler. I started this evening, using my x86 laptop as the host. I defined the target as sparc-netbsd. The laptop is running 3.4 snapshot dated 1/17/00. I got binutils to build OK, but I'm having some gcc problems: missing headers and such (like ansi.h - which looks like it should be OK to include from /usr/include/machine, but I'm not sure). Nothing in the list archives jumped out at me - apparently, the installation details of the egcs toolchain for sparc64 were kept from the list, and only binaries were put up at some point after success was reached. <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 1:43:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 521AB14E8C for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:43:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA75979; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:43:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:43:17 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 32 vs. 64 Message-ID: <20000119014317.O67844@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre1i In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Given that Solaris 7 (and 8) can run both 32bit and 64bit executables, can > a sun4u boot off a 32bit-only kernel? Yes. In fact if you want to use ``cdrecord'' on Solaris 7, you must boot the 32-bit kernel. > Maybe I'm mistaken about the nature of Solaris' gradual movement to 64bit, > and Solaris 2.5.1 is indeed a 64bit os? Solaris 7 was the first 100% 64-bit Solaris. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 1:47: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9E415064 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from michael.schuster@germany.sun.com) Received: from emuc05-home.Germany.Sun.COM ([129.157.51.10]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04289; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:46:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from germany.sun.com (hacker [129.157.167.97]) by emuc05-home.Germany.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/ENSMAIL,v1.7) with ESMTP id KAA15143; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:46:54 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <388587FF.CB9F2864@germany.sun.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:46:39 +0100 From: Michael Schuster - TSC SunOS Germany Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 32 vs. 64 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lyndon Griffin wrote: > > Hmmm... I didn't find a question like this in the archives, so here goes: > > Given that Solaris 7 (and 8) can run both 32bit and 64bit executables, can > a sun4u boot off a 32bit-only kernel? yes. > I assume the answer is yes, since I > have (at work, not at my disposal) an Ultra 2 that runs Solaris 2.5.1. > Maybe I'm mistaken about the nature of Solaris' gradual movement to 64bit, > and Solaris 2.5.1 is indeed a 64bit os? no. Solaris 2.5.1 is a 32-bit OS (in the sense that pointers etc. are 32 bits wide). Both Solaris 7 and 8 can be booted either in 32-bit mode or 64-bit mode (on sun4u, that is), but there's two distinct modules you boot there, and binaries, drivers etc. need to be written seperately for each mode. This is an excerpt of the output of "find / /usr -xdev -name sparcv9" on my Sol. 8 Beta machine: /platform/SUNW,Ultra-250/kernel/drv/sparcv9 /platform/SUNW,Ultra-250/kernel/misc/sparcv9 ... /platform/sun4u/kernel/cpu/sparcv9 /platform/sun4u/kernel/drv/sparcv9 /platform/sun4u/kernel/misc/sparcv9 /platform/sun4u/kernel/sparcv9 /platform/sun4u/kernel/strmod/sparcv9 /platform/sun4u/kernel/tod/sparcv9 /platform/sun4u/kernel/dacf/sparcv9 /platform/sun4u/kernel/sys/sparcv9 ... /kernel/drv/sparcv9 /kernel/exec/sparcv9 /kernel/fs/sparcv9 /kernel/misc/sparcv9 /kernel/misc/kgss/sparcv9 /kernel/sched/sparcv9 /kernel/strmod/sparcv9 .. /usr/platform/sun4u/lib/adb/sparcv9 /usr/platform/sun4u/lib/cfgadm/sparcv9 /usr/platform/sun4u/lib/sparcv9 /usr/platform/sun4u/lib/mdb/kvm/sparcv9 /usr/platform/sun4u/lib/abi/sparcv9 /usr/platform/SUNW,Ultra-1/lib/sparcv9 ... /usr/lib/sparcv9 /usr/lib/iconv/sparcv9 ... /usr/lib/locale/common/LO_LTYPE/sparcv9 .... /usr/bin/sparcv9 /usr/dt/lib/sparcv9 .... /usr/xpg4/lib/sparcv9 /usr/xpg4/lib/abi/sparcv9 /usr/xpg4/bin/sparcv9 so you see, there's tons of sparcv9 directories; also note that there's quite a few architecture-dependant direcories. I'm not saying that this is the only way to structure things, but it may be a start. It may in fact not be as bad as it looks, if you write the source code accordingly using the proper "#ifdef"s ... > make a single kernel that > can boot all suns, and have generic kernels that are tailored for each > architecture or family. you mean "custom kernels", don't you? I don't think one bootable for all would work, to be honest. I once tried a miniature bootable "hello world" for sun4c on an ultra1 and hung it very effectively ... > <:) Lyndon Griffin regards Michael -- Michael Schuster / Michael.Schuster@germany.sun.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 1:55:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD6E14EF5 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:55:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32114 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:50:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:50:45 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 32 vs. 64 In-Reply-To: <20000119014317.O67844@relay.nuxi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org That's what I thought... what is the feasability of producing a single small kernel that will run sun4 and sun4u and everything in between? By small, I mean 2mb or less (I like the idea of having a boot floppy for those machines that can support it). Again, this is way ahead of the curve, but it's good to have goals. <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, David O'Brien wrote: > > Given that Solaris 7 (and 8) can run both 32bit and 64bit executables, can > > a sun4u boot off a 32bit-only kernel? > > Yes. In fact if you want to use ``cdrecord'' on Solaris 7, you must boot > the 32-bit kernel. > > > > Maybe I'm mistaken about the nature of Solaris' gradual movement to 64bit, > > and Solaris 2.5.1 is indeed a 64bit os? > > Solaris 7 was the first 100% 64-bit Solaris. > > -- > -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 3:57:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [209.191.58.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5AB714F49 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 03:57:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com) Received: from bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com (root@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com [209.191.59.30]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15787; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:57:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03673; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:59:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <200001191159.GAA03673@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me In-Reply-To: <38856163.664AFF6D@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "Jan 19, 2000 00:01:55 am" To: Wes Peters Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:59:21 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Reply-To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 732-935-0629 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 07:32:09 -0500 (EST) > > > From: Lyndon Griffin > > > Subject: hello ello llo lo o > > > > > > Breaking the silence is a tough thing to do. My roommie and I have kinda > > > sorta adopted the port to the 32bit SPARC architectures. We consider > > > ourselves in the research phase of this little endeavour. I'll do > > > a quick dump of our status, and then ask a few questions (is there anyone > > > even here?). > > > > Glad to see someone's interested in this one. > > > > Well, I'm lurking with a Sparc IPX and a Sparc2 clone (Opus) > > with 64mb memory each... > > I've managed to accumulate a 4/110, an IPC, and an IPX in the past year. I've > also managed to accumulate a year's worth of SPARC assembler programming, I'm > sure that will come in handy every once in a while. > > I'm willing to pitch in with locore.s and other assembler bits, as needed. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ > > Great... Should we start with OpenBSD and begin with the userland stuff first to see how much ports over easily? Oops... We've got even more hardware. I forgot the ELC I've got as well... Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bpechter@monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org|pechter@pechter.bsdonline.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 4:34:24 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBA4151F2 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:34:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05909 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:29:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:29:35 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me In-Reply-To: <200001191159.GAA03673@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Should we start with OpenBSD and begin with the userland stuff first > to see how much ports over easily? Even a better idea, I think someone here already suggested it... It would be nice if it works. Porting over userland may be able to be accomplished independently of the actual kernel and hardware coding, by using a NetBSD or OpenBSD base system. While porting the kernel may be the most difficult, porting the userland will certainly be tedious - once something is ported, it will need to track current with the rest of the "real" distribution, otherwise we'll end up duplicating our efforts when the kernel work is ready for merging into current. Me - I *love* FreeBSD. There's not a lot of chance that I'll cease work when we merge into -current... Maybe Jordan will step in and correct me here, but just getting to the goal is only half the trip - once we merge, we'll have to keep on going. There's no magical code fairy that takes over maintenance of the port once we become part of the distribution. Somebody (hopefully more than one person) has to keep the port up to date with new features, kernel changes, new drivers, etc. etc. What I'm trying to get at, without being too heavy, is that I sincerely hope that people that will commit to do the work now are also committing to do the work in the future. <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 7:49:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D30B2152AA for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:49:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id HAA02344; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:49:15 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id HAA13796; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:49:14 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id HAA18465; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:47:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3885DDF1.DDABD91C@softweyr.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:53:21 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 32 vs. 64 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lyndon Griffin wrote: > > Hmmm... I didn't find a question like this in the archives, so here goes: > > Given that Solaris 7 (and 8) can run both 32bit and 64bit executables, can > a sun4u boot off a 32bit-only kernel? I assume the answer is yes, since I > have (at work, not at my disposal) an Ultra 2 that runs Solaris 2.5.1. > Maybe I'm mistaken about the nature of Solaris' gradual movement to 64bit, > and Solaris 2.5.1 is indeed a 64bit os? file /kernel/genunix doesn't say 64, so it's apparently a 32-bit kernel on 2.5.1. > Where I'm heading with this is that it may not be so difficult to put all > sparc architectures into the same source node - make a single kernel that > can boot all suns, and have generic kernels that are tailored for each > architecture or family. Except for 32 vs. 64 bits, which are different object formats and instruction formats (32 vs. 64 bits). Maybe a smart loader and /kernel32 and /kernel64 files? > I know this is *way* ahead of where we are, but > if this is a possible goal, maybe we should start planning early to > support it. My understanding of the way that sun accomplishes this is > that the install CD boots from a different slice depending on your > architecture. I know that comparing ctimes across different > platforms, same version of OS, yields totally different results, but the > Solaris literature I've read suggests that for many programs, a separate > build for each architecture is not necessary. Am I making any sense? Yes, but I'm not sure you're understanding the situation. 64-bit versions of Solaris will run 32-bit SPARC executables, and most of the utilities seem to be 32-bit. Take this with a grain of salt, we get Solaris 2.5.1 crammed down our throats because our tools people are too swamped in their own scripting nightmares to update our build tools beyond 2.5.1, so we only have one system running 2.7. > Can anyone lend suggestions on building a cross-compiler. Just one: keep hacking at it until it works. I've successfully built a cross-compiler for the Fujitsu SPARClite eval boards on FreeBSD, using the SunOS-based libraries on the Fuj CD-ROM and a lot of perserverance. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 8: 9:28 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.gibralter.net (pollux.gibralter.net [199.72.208.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C9E14C05 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:09:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rmuir@mail.gibralter.net) Received: (from rmuir@localhost) by mail.gibralter.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08458; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:09:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:55:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Muir To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have an ultra1e at my disposal (wont boot netbsd because of its fas/hme? though) for what its worth, Robert Muir To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 8:12:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506A215254 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:12:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (jrs@shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA80274; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:12:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:12:06 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me In-Reply-To: <200001191159.GAA03673@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Great... > Should we start with OpenBSD and begin with the userland stuff first > to see how much ports over easily? > Oops... We've got even more hardware. I forgot the ELC I've got as well... Quick question....shouldn't we start with NetBSD.....I'm under the impression that OpenBSD's port _IS_ NetBSD's port with a few bug fixes and stronger security and starting from NetBSD would be easier?? I may be wrong. JOHN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 8:55:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958E415370 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:55:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11749; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:18:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:18:22 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Message-ID: <20000119091822.U8736@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <200001191159.GAA03673@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from lgriffin@bsd4us.org on Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 07:29:35AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Lyndon Griffin [000119 04:57] wrote: > > > > Should we start with OpenBSD and begin with the userland stuff first > > to see how much ports over easily? > > Even a better idea, I think someone here already suggested it... It would > be nice if it works. Porting over userland may be able to be accomplished > independently of the actual kernel and hardware coding, by using a NetBSD > or OpenBSD base system. > > While porting the kernel may be the most difficult, porting the userland > will certainly be tedious - once something is ported, it will need to > track current with the rest of the "real" distribution, otherwise we'll > end up duplicating our efforts when the kernel work is ready for merging > into current. > > > Me - I *love* FreeBSD. There's not a lot of chance that I'll cease work > when we merge into -current... Maybe Jordan will step in and correct me > here, but just getting to the goal is only half the trip - once we merge, > we'll have to keep on going. There's no magical code fairy that takes > over maintenance of the port once we become part of the distribution. > Somebody (hopefully more than one person) has to keep the port up to date > with new features, kernel changes, new drivers, etc. etc. What I'm trying > to get at, without being too heavy, is that I sincerely hope that people > that will commit to do the work now are also committing to do the work in > the future. > As the guy who promised to start working on the sparc port but never got around to do anything... for my sins I'll provide an ongoing merge effort and I assume that when some promise is shown people whom I'm proxying commits for will eventually be given cvs access, although that's not for me to decide, just recommend. good luck, -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 9:19:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [209.191.58.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55051544B for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:19:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pechter@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com) Received: from bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com (root@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com [209.191.59.30]) by shell.monmouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19579; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:18:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04345; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:20:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from pechter) From: Bill Pechter Message-Id: <200001191720.MAA04345@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me In-Reply-To: from John Sconiers at "Jan 19, 2000 10:12:06 am" To: John Sconiers Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:20:44 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Reply-To: bpechter@shell.monmouth.com X-Phone-Number: 732-935-0629 X-OS-Type: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > Great... > > Should we start with OpenBSD and begin with the userland stuff first > > to see how much ports over easily? > > Oops... We've got even more hardware. I forgot the ELC I've got as well... > > Quick question....shouldn't we start with NetBSD.....I'm under the > impression that OpenBSD's port _IS_ NetBSD's port with a few bug fixes and > stronger security and starting from NetBSD would be easier?? I may be > wrong. > > JOHN Pick one... The one advantage of OpenBSD is the packages system's already there. I've got CDROMS from both. Anyone have any preferences? (I also volunteer my Vax for the Vax port... and a MacII for the Mac port) FreeBSD-VAX sounds pretty good...) FreeBSD-VAX. Good Unix... done s_l_o_w. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bpechter@monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org|pechter@pechter.bsdonline.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 9:23:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D400B152DC for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:23:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA77989; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:23:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:23:38 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: John Sconiers Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Message-ID: <20000119092338.Q67844@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <200001191159.GAA03673@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre1i In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:12:06AM -0600, John Sconiers wrote: > Quick question....shouldn't we start with NetBSD.....I'm under the > impression that OpenBSD's port _IS_ NetBSD's port with a few bug fixes and > stronger security and starting from NetBSD would be easier?? OpenBSD was that 2.5 years ago. Think how much FreeBSD has changed in that time -- that is how much OpenBSD has diverged from NetBSD. Personally I would suggest NetBSD because /usr/pkgsrc/cross/ might provide a better starting point at the cross toolchain. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 13:52:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.visi.com (baal.visi.com [209.98.98.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811C814A09 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:52:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mtempel@mail.visi.com) Received: from dirac (dirac.fofx.org [209.98.236.73]) by mail.visi.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA28906; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:20 -0600 (CST) Posted-Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:20 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000901bf62c6$760aa900$49ec62d1@dirac> From: "Mark Tempel" To: , "John Sconiers" Cc: References: <200001191159.GAA03673@bg-tc-ppp596.monmouth.com> <20000119092338.Q67844@relay.nuxi.com> Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:45:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "David O'Brien" To: "John Sconiers" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 11:23 AM Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me > On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:12:06AM -0600, John Sconiers wrote: > > Quick question....shouldn't we start with NetBSD.....I'm under the > > impression that OpenBSD's port _IS_ NetBSD's port with a few bug fixes and > > stronger security and starting from NetBSD would be easier?? > > OpenBSD was that 2.5 years ago. Think how much FreeBSD has changed in > that time -- that is how much OpenBSD has diverged from NetBSD. > > Personally I would suggest NetBSD because /usr/pkgsrc/cross/ might > provide a better starting point at the cross toolchain. > I would suggest NetBSD. This is because the alpha port was done from a NetBSD base, and we could (hopefully) leverage the knowledge gained from that port in our efforts. Mark Tempel mtempel@visi.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 15:52:14 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk (fdy2.demon.co.uk [194.222.102.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B21C1534A for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:52:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk) Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00378; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:58:32 GMT (envelope-from rjs) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:58:32 GMT Message-Id: <200001192158.VAA00378@fdy2.demon.co.uk> From: Robert Swindells To: mtempel@visi.com Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <000901bf62c6$760aa900$49ec62d1@dirac> (mtempel@visi.com) Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Tempel wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:12:06AM -0600, John Sconiers wrote: >> > Quick question....shouldn't we start with NetBSD.....I'm under the >> > impression that OpenBSD's port _IS_ NetBSD's port with a few bug fixes and >> > stronger security and starting from NetBSD would be easier?? >> >> OpenBSD was that 2.5 years ago. Think how much FreeBSD has changed in >> that time -- that is how much OpenBSD has diverged from NetBSD. >> >> Personally I would suggest NetBSD because /usr/pkgsrc/cross/ might >> provide a better starting point at the cross toolchain. >> >I would suggest NetBSD. This is because the alpha port was done >from a NetBSD base, and we could (hopefully) leverage the knowledge >gained from that port in our efforts. I would be more likely to try to help if it were based on NetBSD as well. I already run it on a StrongARM system and was planning on using the same source tree for my SS2. Robert Swindells To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 16:15:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3623415366 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:15:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32637 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:10:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:10:31 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: "base" system Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In going over all the posts the past two days, I think it would be best if we use NetBSD as our "base" system. This gives us a number of advantages: * leveraging knowledge of previous porting efforts (FreeBSD/axp) * possibility of using NetBSD's cross-compiler port (in fact, there is not an openbsd-sparc target for gcc/binutils/gdb in the distributions) * leveraging platform dependent code from netbsd/sparc * for the most part, those that have expressed opinion on which to use seem to want netbsd I think that pretty well closes the case. Let's call this a decision and move forward from it - any objections or concerns? <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 16:18:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46D715341 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:18:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA81255; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:18:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:18:16 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Robert Swindells Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Message-ID: <20000119161816.G80628@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <000901bf62c6$760aa900$49ec62d1@dirac> <200001192158.VAA00378@fdy2.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre1i In-Reply-To: <200001192158.VAA00378@fdy2.demon.co.uk> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:58:32PM +0000, Robert Swindells wrote: > I already run it on a StrongARM system and was planning on using the same > source tree for my SS2. I possibly more worth-while thing to do would be to port the StrongARM. I have a DNARD on loan to look at the toolchain issues if I get bored. IMHO, I think the embedded market would really take to FreeBSD if we ran on the StrongARM. -- David [P.S. this is an independent thing -- there has been no call for such a thing from FreeBSD core or] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 16:19:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C7414DF3 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:19:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06512 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:14:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:14:44 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: My configuration has changed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just got a hold of two SM71 CPU modules - these will be replacing the single SM61 in my SS10. The SM61 is already spoken for, otherwise I would offer it up to the list. I would like to be able to SMP in this port as early as possible - I've heard that Net- will boot but otherwise ignore two modules, and I've also been told that Open- won't boot with more than one module. Thus, another reason to base in NetBSD - there's at least one lesson to be learned in the code. <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 17:58:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 238FD14D86 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:58:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id NAA05710; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:09:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jb) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:09:17 +1100 From: John Birrell To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "base" system Message-ID: <20000120130917.B5137@freebsd1.cimlogic.com.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Lyndon Griffin on Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 07:10:31PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 07:10:31PM -0500, Lyndon Griffin wrote: > In going over all the posts the past two days, I think it would be best if > we use NetBSD as our "base" system. This gives us a number of advantages: > * leveraging knowledge of previous porting efforts (FreeBSD/axp) > * possibility of using NetBSD's cross-compiler port (in fact, there is > not an openbsd-sparc target for gcc/binutils/gdb in the distributions) > * leveraging platform dependent code from netbsd/sparc > * for the most part, those that have expressed opinion on which to > use seem to want netbsd > > I think that pretty well closes the case. Let's call this a decision and > move forward from it - any objections or concerns? Yes, well just a suggestion. 8-) The issues that needed to be addressed to port FreeBSD to the Alpha were different from those related to porting FreeBSD to Sparc now. Back then, the FreeBSD source tree was very x86-centric and work was required to handle multiple architectures. Then there was the issue of 32-bit versus 64-bit. There was also the problem that FreeBSD was still using the old tools, with no support for ELF. All that has changed and FreeBSD has come a long way. I think you'll find that it will be easier to build cross tools using the Cygnus sources that match the tools that are already in FreeBSD's tree. With those tools, you should be able to go directly to porting the FreeBSD kernel by setting up an Intel machine to netboot the Sparc and building on an x86 machine running FreeBSD. After the cross-tools, you will have to setup the Sparc machine headers using the NetBSD sources as a guide, but aiming to end up with something that is compatible with the FreeBSD/i386 and alpha equivalents. The low level Sparc code should come from NetBSD, IMHO. Just be careful to respect the copyrights in the files you refer to. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ john.birrell@cai.com john.birrell@opendirectory.com.au To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Wed Jan 19 18:36:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from ns2.via-net-works.net.ar (ns2.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419B315384 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Recabarren!fpscha@ns2.via-net-works.net.ar) Received: by ns2.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19107; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:35:38 -0300 (GMT) >Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by localhost.schapachnik.com.ar (8.8.8/8.8.5) id XAA00948; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:36:10 -0300 (ART) Message-Id: <200001200236.XAA00948@localhost.schapachnik.com.ar> Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me In-Reply-To: from Lyndon Griffin at "Jan 19, 0 07:29:35 am" To: lgriffin@bsd4us.org (Lyndon Griffin) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:36:09 -0300 (ART) Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG From: "Fernando P. Schapachnik" X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6 - http://www.freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org En un mensaje anterior Lyndon Griffin escribió: > While porting the kernel may be the most difficult, porting the userland > will certainly be tedious - once something is ported, it will need to Let me show my ignorance here. If we have a kernel running on SPARC and a native compiler working fine, isn't porting userland == make world? At least for the code that doesn't use assembler (which should be most of it)? (I asume a NO answer, but can't imagine why). Anyone care to enlighten me? Thanks! Fernando P. Schapachnik fernando@schapachnik.com.ar | Atención: Mensaje generado en entorno libre de productos M$. No contiene | | HTML, adjuntos en Word ni basura similar. Leer con tranquilidad. | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Jan 20 7:18:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E460514C0C for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:18:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from [204.68.178.39] (helo=softweyr.com ident=wes) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12BJM2-0002T5-00; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:18:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3887284C.7712C2EE@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:22:52 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lyndon Griffin Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "base" system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Lyndon Griffin wrote: > > In going over all the posts the past two days, I think it would be best if > we use NetBSD as our "base" system. This gives us a number of advantages: > * leveraging knowledge of previous porting efforts (FreeBSD/axp) > * possibility of using NetBSD's cross-compiler port (in fact, there is > not an openbsd-sparc target for gcc/binutils/gdb in the distributions) > * leveraging platform dependent code from netbsd/sparc > * for the most part, those that have expressed opinion on which to > use seem to want netbsd > > I think that pretty well closes the case. Let's call this a decision and > move forward from it - any objections or concerns? I already have NetBSD on two systems. I'm slightly ahead of you. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Jan 20 15:52:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EC715375 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:52:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id PAA03508; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:51:49 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id PAA18879; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:51:48 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com (dyn1.utah.xylan.com [198.206.184.237]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id PAA26535; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:50:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3887A094.87ED39C1@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:56:04 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: obrien@nuxi.com Cc: Robert Swindells , freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me References: <000901bf62c6$760aa900$49ec62d1@dirac> <200001192158.VAA00378@fdy2.demon.co.uk> <20000119161816.G80628@relay.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David O'Brien wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:58:32PM +0000, Robert Swindells wrote: > > I already run it on a StrongARM system and was planning on using the same > > source tree for my SS2. > > I possibly more worth-while thing to do would be to port the StrongARM. > I have a DNARD on loan to look at the toolchain issues if I get bored. > IMHO, I think the embedded market would really take to FreeBSD if we ran > on the StrongARM. Wasn't the original OS on the DNARD NetBSD? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Jan 20 15:54:17 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from relay.nuxi.com (nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C92E814D46 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:54:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA88270; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:54:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:54:07 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: Wes Peters Cc: Robert Swindells , freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Message-ID: <20000120155407.B87999@relay.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien@NUXI.com References: <000901bf62c6$760aa900$49ec62d1@dirac> <200001192158.VAA00378@fdy2.demon.co.uk> <20000119161816.G80628@relay.nuxi.com> <3887A094.87ED39C1@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre1i In-Reply-To: <3887A094.87ED39C1@softweyr.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jan 20, 2000 at 04:56:04PM -0700, Wes Peters wrote: > Wasn't the original OS on the DNARD NetBSD? Yes. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.com) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Jan 20 16: 4:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CAC315295 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05068 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:59:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:59:50 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: Curious (cross-compiler) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org My thinking may be *really* screwy here, and - if so - I hope somebody will step forward to correct me. What is the purpose of building a cross-compiler if we have a running OS on the target platform? Wouldn't it be simpler to just build everything on the target platform using the existing OS? <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Jan 20 16:37:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from fdy2.demon.co.uk (fdy2.demon.co.uk [194.222.102.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737C21544F for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:37:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rjs@fdy2.demon.co.uk) Received: (from rjs@localhost) by fdy2.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA00461; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:37:36 GMT (envelope-from rjs) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:37:36 GMT Message-Id: <200001202337.XAA00461@fdy2.demon.co.uk> From: Robert Swindells To: obrien@nuxi.com Cc: freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <20000119161816.G80628@relay.nuxi.com> (obrien@nuxi.com) Subject: Re: Sparc Port -- sounds good to me Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David O'Brien wrote: >On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 09:58:32PM +0000, Robert Swindells wrote: >> I already run it on a StrongARM system and was planning on using the same >> source tree for my SS2. >I possibly more worth-while thing to do would be to port the StrongARM. >I have a DNARD on loan to look at the toolchain issues if I get bored. >IMHO, I think the embedded market would really take to FreeBSD if we ran >on the StrongARM. This is why I bought my StrongARM system. The SS2 is being replaced as a CAD system at work by an NT system, I just didn't want to see it end up in a dumpster. I'll admit I haven't done much other than work on the ELF headers to date, but we are starting on a SA1110/SA1111 product at work & I intend to run *BSD on it in some form. Robert To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-sparc Thu Jan 20 22:53: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Received: from bsd4us.org (cn386092-a.newcas1.de.home.com [24.40.46.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC5B14E57 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:53:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lgriffin@BSD4US.ORG) Received: from localhost (lgriffin@localhost) by bsd4us.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15934 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:48:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:48:20 -0500 (EST) From: Lyndon Griffin To: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Subject: web updates and list archives Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-sparc@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hello, all. I'm in the process of making some updates to the port "home page," graciously hosted by David O. I hope to have some fresh info up sometime tomorrow (Friday, for you international folks, is already here - you should get the picture, though). As I've been trekking through the list archives, I've noticed that there are a lot of messages apparently missing. Can anyone speak to this? Granted, there are a lot of off-topic posts there, but I can't help thinking that maybe some juicy stuff isn't. <:) Lyndon Griffin http://www.bsd4us.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-sparc" in the body of the message