From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 6:21:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFAFF37B422 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 06:21:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f4DDKMO14763; Sun, 13 May 2001 15:20:22 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010513064822.51260.qmail@web13605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010513064822.51260.qmail@web13605.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 15:05:35 +0200 To: Bzdik BSD , David Kelly , Stuart Krivis From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Crap OS X Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:48 PM -0700 5/12/01, Bzdik BSD wrote: > is this legal? can I do this? Sure. You bought it, you can sell it or give it away, if you like. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 6:28:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF51237B422 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 06:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f4DDSO123825; Sun, 13 May 2001 15:28:25 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010512170922Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> References: <20010512130047Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010512222337.90720.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> <20010512170922Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 15:28:20 +0200 To: Jordan Hubbard , bzdik@yahoo.com From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Crap OS X Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 5:09 PM -0700 5/12/01, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > I wasn't talking as a theorist either, but perhaps I've simply worked > in a wider array of environments than you have. I can certainly say > that my needs would be rather ill-served by MacOS 8, whereas is > appears to be more than enough for you. The thing I'm most looking forward to is reduction in the number of times my machine is crashed, or locked up into a state where the only way to recover is to pull the plug. If real virtual memory and pre-emptive multi-tasking were the only things added to MacOS 9, I'd be pretty happy. As it is, I've been waiting years for someone to deliver on the promise of taking the Mac interface and joining that to the power of Unix. Don't talk to me about A/UX, I remember what a dog it was. [0] NeXTStep was a better attempt (at least it was a semi-functional OS with a fairly decent GUI), but they had a problem with being able to deliver the desktop applications. For me, Apple has flubbed enough things in the past, such that if they screw up MacOS X, they're toast. I've got tens of thousands of dollars of hardware and software invested in MacOS, but I've been frustrated enough with them for enough years that I think I'll pretty much toss it all away if Apple doesn't get this right. In my book, Apple already has one foot down that road, because of lack of support for AT&T/Lucent/Agere WaveLAN/Orinoco cards under MacOS X. Apple won't support them because they aren't AirPort cards (although AirPort cards are only slightly modified WaveLAN/Orinoco cards to begin with), even though they use real WaveLAN/Orinoco cards in their own AirPort Base Station. Lucent/Agere won't support them under MacOS X because they feel that this is the responsibility of Apple. Somebody has to give. [0] Its only raison de etre' was the fact that Apple wanted the cheapest possible path they could get to being able to say that their hardware was capable of running a POSIX-compliant OS. This way, they could better shoe-horn their way into US Federal Government contracts where the contracting officers really just wished that Apple would dry up and die, because they wanted their PCs dammit, but they weren't allowed to specify PCs directly, so one way they had of locking Apple out was to require that the machine be capable of running a POSIX OS -- regardless of the fact that they would never even dream of running a POSIX OS on the thing, they'd instead run GEM or Windows 1.0, and the hell with POSIX. Of course, for this, Apple chose to base A/UX on SVR2, the oldest (and cheapest) version of Unix that was actually POSIX compliant, as opposed to SVR3 which was newer, much more capable, and had a higher probability of actually being semi-useful. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 8:40:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D58537B423 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 08:40:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from europax@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.12.186.185]) by femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010513154017.UPKX22926.femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com@home.com>; Sun, 13 May 2001 08:40:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3AFEAA92.E441F08@home.com> Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:38:58 -0700 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Kelly Cc: Stuart Krivis , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crap OS X References: <200105130338.f4D3c4516271@grumpy.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm wondering if OS-X will run on my old Power Computing Power Center 120? Its the only non FreeBSD computer in the house. Rob. David Kelly wrote: > > Stuart Krivis writes: > > > > On Friday, May 11, 2001, at 11:54 PM, Bzdik BSD wrote: > > > > > > > > I am removing it and going back to 8.6 for production needs. > > > And I am not alone. > > > > > > > > > > And here I think it's the best thing Apple has ever done... > > Damn near the best thing Apple has ever done. Second only to their earth > shattering notion that some of the power of the computer should be applied > toward getting the task done and less toward babysitting the OS and unique > user interfaces for every application. > > If the original poster doesn't want his copy of MacOS X, can I have it? > Will be needing another for my desktop G4-400. Already have it and run > nothing but on my TiBook. > > -- > David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net > ===================================================================== > The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its > capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 8:42:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3C637B424 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 08:42:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from europax@home.com) Received: from home.com ([24.12.186.185]) by femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010513154234.UQRC22926.femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com@home.com>; Sun, 13 May 2001 08:42:34 -0700 Message-ID: <3AFEAB1C.C45A16F@home.com> Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:41:16 -0700 From: Rob X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brad Knowles Cc: Jordan Hubbard , bzdik@yahoo.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crap OS X References: <20010512130047Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <20010512222337.90720.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> <20010512170922Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I might install Max OS-X if they had a version of CyberDog that ran on it. I really loved that program. It was the first WWW browser that was fast. Rob. Brad Knowles wrote: > > At 5:09 PM -0700 5/12/01, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > > > I wasn't talking as a theorist either, but perhaps I've simply worked > > in a wider array of environments than you have. I can certainly say > > that my needs would be rather ill-served by MacOS 8, whereas is > > appears to be more than enough for you. > > The thing I'm most looking forward to is reduction in the number > of times my machine is crashed, or locked up into a state where the > only way to recover is to pull the plug. If real virtual memory and > pre-emptive multi-tasking were the only things added to MacOS 9, I'd > be pretty happy. > > As it is, I've been waiting years for someone to deliver on the > promise of taking the Mac interface and joining that to the power of > Unix. Don't talk to me about A/UX, I remember what a dog it was. [0] > NeXTStep was a better attempt (at least it was a semi-functional OS > with a fairly decent GUI), but they had a problem with being able to > deliver the desktop applications. > > For me, Apple has flubbed enough things in the past, such that if > they screw up MacOS X, they're toast. I've got tens of thousands of > dollars of hardware and software invested in MacOS, but I've been > frustrated enough with them for enough years that I think I'll pretty > much toss it all away if Apple doesn't get this right. > > In my book, Apple already has one foot down that road, because of > lack of support for AT&T/Lucent/Agere WaveLAN/Orinoco cards under > MacOS X. Apple won't support them because they aren't AirPort cards > (although AirPort cards are only slightly modified WaveLAN/Orinoco > cards to begin with), even though they use real WaveLAN/Orinoco cards > in their own AirPort Base Station. Lucent/Agere won't support them > under MacOS X because they feel that this is the responsibility of > Apple. Somebody has to give. > > [0] Its only raison de etre' was the fact that Apple wanted the > cheapest possible path they could get to being able to say that their > hardware was capable of running a POSIX-compliant OS. This way, they > could better shoe-horn their way into US Federal Government contracts > where the contracting officers really just wished that Apple would > dry up and die, because they wanted their PCs dammit, but they > weren't allowed to specify PCs directly, so one way they had of > locking Apple out was to require that the machine be capable of > running a POSIX OS -- regardless of the fact that they would never > even dream of running a POSIX OS on the thing, they'd instead run GEM > or Windows 1.0, and the hell with POSIX. > > Of course, for this, Apple chose to base A/UX on SVR2, the oldest > (and cheapest) version of Unix that was actually POSIX compliant, as > opposed to SVR3 which was newer, much more capable, and had a higher > probability of actually being semi-useful. > > -- > Brad Knowles, > > /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ > /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ > /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ > /* */ > /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ > /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ > > dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 11:23:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1716B37B43C for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 11:23:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f4DINQO20399; Sun, 13 May 2001 20:23:26 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3AFEAA92.E441F08@home.com> References: <200105130338.f4D3c4516271@grumpy.dyndns.org> <3AFEAA92.E441F08@home.com> Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 20:01:00 +0200 To: Rob , David Kelly From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Crap OS X Cc: Stuart Krivis , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 8:38 AM -0700 5/13/01, Rob wrote: > I'm wondering if OS-X will run on my old Power Computing Power Center > 120? Its the only non FreeBSD computer in the house. Rob. If you had a G3 or G4 accelerator from XLR8 or Sonnet, odds are that they should work with MacOS X, but you'd want to check www.macintouch.com or www.macfixit.com first. Of course, you might be able to run NetBSD on the machine already -- if it's got an OpenFirmware boot PROM. Indeed, looking at the page at , it looks like the only problem is that the on-board video won't work and you'll have to use a serial console. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 11:45: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web13607.mail.yahoo.com (web13607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 09AAC37B422 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 11:45:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bzdik@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010513184504.61587.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.16.193.228] by web13607.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 13 May 2001 11:45:04 PDT Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 11:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Bzdik BSD Subject: Re: Crap OS X To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Brad Knowles wrote: > they screw up MacOS X, they're toast. I've got tens of thousands of > dollars of hardware and software invested in MacOS, but I've been > frustrated enough with them for enough years that I think I'll pretty > > much toss it all away if Apple doesn't get this right. My situation as well. OTOH it payed off thousand times for me. In over decade with Macs I never read a manual. It *was* totally different cultural environment. I had this FileMaker Pro that was a cutie to deal with. Even creating rules and formulae was so intuitive that it was a joy to work with it. Geeks are not needed there! Liberation was close ;) Then the Cupertiono HQ killed cloners, soon application developers began leaving one by one. I had fewer choices of accounting software and uncertainty of business continuity started to be so certain. There used to be good times when AOL was just a friendly and mostly Mac board where a non-geek could get familiar with new and cool slang words like "ftp", "gopher", "veronica, baby" and Web was some novel curiosity. They are gone. We just had this generational flash-back that manifested itself in the market place rather nicely. Besides market crash, there was a short living surge in VolksWagen Beetle(slightly different) sales, Macs(slightly different), Carlo Sanatana (slightly older), Unix (slightly Linuxed),etc. In light of this, writing for Salon.com was a big mistake. Are they still in business? It should have been Playboy. This could give any Unix for any platform very sexy image. Like "Yeah..Right..." The flashback has passed, and the market remains to be the ultimate judge working in a continuous fashion. Apple is not even a leader in dying business: box making. the thing that is very suspect is that VAX people did not crawl out... Servers are nice, but the usability by end-user is what I need. Perl strings calculating some astro phases can be called fully fledged ports and we could claim we have over 7000 of them, but small stuff like The Bat!, Eudora, YA NewsWatcher, MT NewsWatcher win the end-user. And not all of them are commercial either. Certainly, some people have bigger requirements and use pine or even Emacs OS. And an elitist will have a fancy glass of armagnac while making sunset calculations for a given coordinate at a given date sitting in front of his computer by a fireplace. Just threading without infringing yet enjoying. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 11:57:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web13602.mail.yahoo.com (web13602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B34D937B422 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 11:57:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bzdik@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010513185736.4240.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.16.193.228] by web13602.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 13 May 2001 11:57:36 PDT Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 11:57:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Bzdik BSD Subject: Re: Crap OS X To: Rob , David Kelly Cc: Stuart Krivis , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3AFEAA92.E441F08@home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Rob wrote: > I'm wondering if OS-X will run on my old Power Computing Power Center > 120? Its the only non FreeBSD computer in the house. Rob. Most likely no. Although there are some high class hard-wiring enthusiasts you could find starting here http://w3.trib.com/~dwood/macwiz.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 14:25:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from madcap.apk.net (madcap.apk.net [207.54.158.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2464737B424 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 14:25:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@apk.net) X-IP-Test: 207.54.148.235 Received: from localhost (stuart.apk.net [207.54.148.235]) by madcap.apk.net (8.11.2/8.11.2/apk.010219+rchk1.22+bspm1.13.1.5a) with ESMTP id f4DLPMd09963 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 17:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105132125.f4DLPMd09963@madcap.apk.net> Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 17:25:13 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Stuart Krivis To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <3AFEAB1C.C45A16F@home.com> Subject: Re: Crap OS X Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, May 13, 2001, at 11:41 AM, Rob wrote: > I might install Max OS-X if they had a version of CyberDog that ran on > it. I really loved that program. It was the first WWW browser that was > fast. Rob. > > Cyberdog went the way of OpenDoc. I very much doubt if you will see Apple do anything with it at this point. OmniWeb is probably the best browser for OS X. It's also quite fast. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 14:45:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from madcap.apk.net (madcap.apk.net [207.54.158.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D2437B423 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@apk.net) X-IP-Test: 207.54.148.235 Received: from localhost (stuart.apk.net [207.54.148.235]) by madcap.apk.net (8.11.2/8.11.2/apk.010219+rchk1.22+bspm1.13.1.5a) with ESMTP id f4DLjjd20553 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 17:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105132145.f4DLjjd20553@madcap.apk.net> Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 17:45:37 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-409335036-3 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Stuart Krivis To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Crap OS X Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Apple-Mail-409335036-3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii On Sunday, May 13, 2001, at 02:01 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 8:38 AM -0700 5/13/01, Rob wrote: > >> I'm wondering if OS-X will run on my old Power Computing Power Center >> 120? Its the only non FreeBSD computer in the house. Rob. > > If you had a G3 or G4 accelerator from XLR8 or Sonnet, odds are > that they should work with MacOS X, but you'd want to check > www.macintouch.com or www.macfixit.com first. Have they actually announced that support is available? The last time I looked into it, they were still saying it wasn't ready. I've seen G4 400 towers selling for under $1000 refurbished. A B&W G3 350 like I have was even less. By the time you get an accelerator ($300+), more RAM, and a video adapter that will do justice to OS X, it probably is better to just buy a more modern machine. Sad, but true... --Apple-Mail-409335036-3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii On Sunday, May 13, 2001, at 02:01 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: At 8:38 AM -0700 5/13/01, Rob wrote: I'm wondering if OS-X will run on my old Power Computing Power Center 120? Its the only non FreeBSD computer in the house. Rob. If you had a G3 or G4 accelerator from XLR8 or Sonnet, odds are that they should work with MacOS X, but you'd want to check www.macintouch.com or www.macfixit.com first. 0000,0000,DEB7 Have they actually announced that support is available? The last time I looked into it, they were still saying it wasn't ready. I've seen G4 400 towers selling for under $1000 refurbished. A B&W G3 350 like I have was even less. By the time you get an accelerator ($300+), more RAM, and a video adapter that will do justice to OS X, it probably is better to just buy a more modern machine. Sad, but true... --Apple-Mail-409335036-3-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 18:54:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A293437B424 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 18:54:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19228; Sun, 13 May 2001 19:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010513194802.0458fef0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 19:53:46 -0600 To: Jordan Hubbard , bzdik@yahoo.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Crap OS X Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010512130047Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> References: <20010512192328.71978.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> <20010512041306.A87740@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010512192328.71978.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:00 PM 5/12/2001, Jordan Hubbard wrote: >...there are all sorts of "mac nuts" who'd like >things to stay exactly as they were. There are also a lot of OS/2 >nuts still out there who pine for the days of OS/2 and wish microsoft >would just come to their senses and stop doing Windows already. >There's even the remnants of the Amiga community who are still hoping >that AmigaOS will come back. > >At the same time, there also exist a large number of people who would >like progress to occur and refuse to have anything to do with all >these retro fanatics. :) What is ironic is that none of these are "retro" compared to Windows. I'm strongly considering getting an iBook just so that I can follow OS X, even if it's not perfect. I'm tired of the hardware compatibility problems I routinely experience when running UNIX-like OSes on Intel-based laptops.... And OS X would make it possible to run a good GUI and mainstream commercial GUI applications without risking the many problems caused by Windows emulation. Between MacOS and UNIX applications, I think I'd be a happy camper. Comments? --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun May 13 19:20:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-76-217.knology.net [24.214.76.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B266737B423 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 19:20:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4E2JY549635; Sun, 13 May 2001 21:19:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200105140219.f4E2JY549635@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Brett Glass Cc: Jordan Hubbard , bzdik@yahoo.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crap OS X In-Reply-To: Message from Brett Glass of "Sun, 13 May 2001 19:53:46 MDT." <4.3.2.7.2.20010513194802.0458fef0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:19:34 -0500 From: David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > What is ironic is that none of these are "retro" compared to Windows. > > I'm strongly considering getting an iBook just so that I can follow > OS X, even if it's not perfect. I'm tired of the hardware > compatibility problems I routinely experience when running UNIX-like > OSes on Intel-based laptops.... And OS X would make it possible to > run a good GUI and mainstream commercial GUI applications without > risking the many problems caused by Windows emulation. Between MacOS > and UNIX applications, I think I'd be a happy camper. Comments? My Titanium PowerBook G4-400 cost $2600 but http://www.outpost.com/ threw in overnight shipping, leather carrying case, and an extra 128MB of RAM (for 256MB). Then another $100 or so for MacOS X because they don't ship it standard, yet. While that's more than an iBook or G4 desktop, I've never had a laptop before. Love it. Also buy a Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse, the blue/silver one which is "PS2/USB Compatible". At $30 its at least as good as Apple's $60 mouse, and slides better. So far I've only taken time to "play" with it. Played with MacOS X Public Beta before and dual booted that installation. Still haven't fully comprended how Apple moved the 9.1 stuff around when they installed X. Part of my problem is I have about 10 years of history in the Mac files I drag around. Is terribly easy to buy a new machine with bigger HD, drag the entire old HD to a folder in the new, and everything works. So I have about 3 folders of prior machines that I ought to spend a couple of days cleaning out. Have long since thrown away the System Folders but keep a stuffed copy as there is no telling what Preferences file I might need later for having forgotten a serial number. The shareware DropStuff utility is essential. The full StuffIt Deluxe is less essential but adds more compatibility such as tar. And probably gzip. Not really sure as I have the full thing. Retrospect from Dantz is about the only Mac backup utility available. Its that good. Its really good. I have a 3-pack of Mac remotes and 5-pack of PC remotes. My 9.1 Mac does automatic nightly backups of 3 machines at work. Writes the backups via ftp on a couple of FreeBSD machines. Have always like Nisus for word processing. http://www.nisus.com/. While I own the 5.0 version I use the 4.1.6 free-for-download version. Will wait on a full native MacOS X version of 6.x before considering an upgrade. Not sure how 4.1.6 behaves under the X Classic environment. Think I need to look into integrating GnuPG with X's Mail. I think there isn't enough time in the week to play with all my toys. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 1:24:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD32137B423 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 01:24:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f4E8Nx129825; Mon, 14 May 2001 10:24:00 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200105132145.f4DLjjd20553@madcap.apk.net> References: <200105132145.f4DLjjd20553@madcap.apk.net> Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 10:23:10 +0200 To: Stuart Krivis , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Crap OS X Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 5:45 PM -0400 5/13/01, Stuart Krivis wrote: > Have they actually announced that support is available? The last time I > looked into it, they were still saying it wasn't ready. To the best of my knowledge, the drivers shipped by Sonnet & XLR8 work just fine, and MacOS X works as well on their upgrade cards as it does on the Apple original G3 & G4 hardware. > I've seen G4 400 towers selling for under $1000 refurbished. A B&W G3 350 > like I have was even less. By the time you get an accelerator ($300+), > more RAM, and a video adapter that will do justice to OS X, it probably > is better to just buy a more modern machine. Sad, but true... A G4 tower or a B&W G3 shouldn't need any kind of CPU upgrade in order to run MacOS X. You might need more RAM, or a compatible video card, and you might *want* a faster CPU, but that shouldn't be necessary. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 1:43:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42D737B423 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 01:43:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f4E8h9R83620 ; Mon, 14 May 2001 10:43:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id KAA41040 ; Mon, 14 May 2001 10:43:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 10:43:30 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brett Glass Cc: Jordan Hubbard , bzdik@yahoo.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Crap OS X Message-ID: <20010514104330.A40487@lpt.ens.fr> References: <20010512192328.71978.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> <20010512041306.A87740@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010512192328.71978.qmail@web13602.mail.yahoo.com> <20010512130047Z.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010513194802.0458fef0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010513194802.0458fef0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Sun, May 13, 2001 at 07:53:46PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I'm strongly considering getting an iBook just so that I can follow > OS X, even if it's not perfect. I'm considering it too, because it looks quite affordable. If I'm forced to buy a laptop with a pre-installed OS, I'd prefer this to the alternative. Can anyone tell me how good XFree86 is on it right now? I've seen screenshots etc, but would like to know how stable/usable it really is. Also, does it ship with compilers, and does TeX work on it? - Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 4: 2: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B804037B422 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 04:02:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA34282; Mon, 14 May 2001 13:01:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Brad Knowles Cc: Rahul Siddharthan , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Laptop recommendations in France / Europe? References: <20010509133826.I82438@lpt.ens.fr> <20010510160433.A52244@lpt.ens.fr> <20010511091932.A89124@lpt.ens.fr> <20010511094820.D89124@lpt.ens.fr> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 2001 13:01:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brad Knowles writes: > > I know that Fnac has a number of different models (over a > dozen), but I don't know which ones might work well with FreeBSD and > which ones might not. I also don't know what other stores there might > be where you could buy a laptop. They have mostly Toshibas and Compaqs IIRC, so most of them should work. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 4: 3:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2A537B423 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 04:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA34292; Mon, 14 May 2001 13:03:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Laptop recommendations in France / Europe? References: <20010509133826.I82438@lpt.ens.fr> <20010510160433.A52244@lpt.ens.fr> <20010511091932.A89124@lpt.ens.fr> <20010511094820.D89124@lpt.ens.fr> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 14 May 2001 13:03:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20010511094820.D89124@lpt.ens.fr> Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan writes: > It turns out the model I looked at yesterday has a winmodem (a Lucent > Technologies softmodem). There's supposed to be some linux support > for that now, otherwise I'll have to ask about replacing it with > something else -- it looks like it's not supported with FreeBSD. Lucent WinModem support is on the way. There's a driver floating around on the web, but it hasn't been committed yet. If you're willing to live with a separately maintained driver until it's committed, you should be fine. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 7:11: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net (smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net [212.1.128.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5433737B42C; Mon, 14 May 2001 07:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wcp@pelissero.org) Received: from smtp1.cluster1.telinco.net ([212.1.128.150]) by smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14zJ3F-000BFI-00; Mon, 14 May 2001 15:10:21 +0100 Received: from daemon.lpds.sublink.org (ppp-1-170.cvx1.telinco.net [212.1.136.170]) by smtp1.cluster1.telinco.net (8.11.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4EEAld38646; Mon, 14 May 2001 15:10:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from pelissero.org (hyde.lpds.sublink.org [10.0.0.2]) by daemon.lpds.sublink.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA49367; Mon, 14 May 2001 14:54:22 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from wcp@pelissero.org) Received: (from wcp@localhost) by pelissero.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08601; Mon, 14 May 2001 15:06:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from wcp) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:06:15 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200105141406.PAA08601@pelissero.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Walter C. Pelissero" Reply-To: walter@pelissero.org To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: is distribution sinking? X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 13) "Crater Lake" XEmacs Lucid X-Attribution: WP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I'm writing this as a sort of open letter to the FreeBSD community because I belive my concerns may be shared by a big part of it. Last year I decided to discontinue my subscription to the FreeBSD CDROM. I've been subscribed since almost the first CDROM issue (on single media at that time). My decision wasn't easy and didn't come out of technical or religious motivations. It was mainly bad customer support. Actually, the problems arised one day when I received a letter stating that Walnut Creek had problems with my credit card and they where expecting the payment of the last shippment (items I never received). Well, not a big deal. I mailed the required informations and asked informations about the never-delivered CDs. No answer. Ok, I assumed the subscription would come in effect starting with the next issue. Nope. Since then I never received anything (but I haven't been charged for anything) and all my e-mails have been ignored. Ok, I let my subscription got frogotten. Recently I tried to buy a 4.3 distribution from a local store (London, UK) and while they had all the releases up to 4.1 they told me they had problems with the last one. They suspect this is due to the recent take over of BSDi (once again). I don't know if FreeBSD is distributed by anyone else but WC/BSDi. My impression is that currently the FreeBSD distribution is slowly sinking. In the meanwhile it turns up that NetBSD and OpenBSD CD distributions are more easily available than FreeBSD so I see myself forced to switch to one of them. -- walter pelissero http://www.pelissero.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 7:15:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from athena.za.net (athena.za.net [196.30.167.200]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFE837B422; Mon, 14 May 2001 07:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jus@athena.za.net) Received: from jus (helo=localhost) by athena.za.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 14zJ7U-0001fU-00; Mon, 14 May 2001 16:14:44 +0200 Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:14:44 +0200 (SAST) From: Justin Stanford X-Sender: jus@athena.za.net To: "Walter C. Pelissero" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is distribution sinking? In-Reply-To: <200105141406.PAA08601@pelissero.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Perhaps commercial distribution is not up to scratch, but it is still as easy as ever to get the ISO image and make one's own CD in as large a quantity as one's heart desires - or simply download the distributions of choice and use mkisofs or something similar to create your own image, or do an FTP or other type of install. -- Justin Stanford 082 7402741 jus@security.za.net www.security.za.net IT Security and Solutions On Mon, 14 May 2001, Walter C. Pelissero wrote: > I'm writing this as a sort of open letter to the FreeBSD community > because I belive my concerns may be shared by a big part of it. > > Last year I decided to discontinue my subscription to the FreeBSD > CDROM. I've been subscribed since almost the first CDROM issue (on > single media at that time). My decision wasn't easy and didn't come > out of technical or religious motivations. It was mainly bad customer > support. > > Actually, the problems arised one day when I received a letter stating > that Walnut Creek had problems with my credit card and they where > expecting the payment of the last shippment (items I never received). > > Well, not a big deal. I mailed the required informations and asked > informations about the never-delivered CDs. No answer. Ok, I assumed > the subscription would come in effect starting with the next issue. > Nope. > > Since then I never received anything (but I haven't been charged for > anything) and all my e-mails have been ignored. Ok, I let my > subscription got frogotten. > > Recently I tried to buy a 4.3 distribution from a local store (London, > UK) and while they had all the releases up to 4.1 they told me they > had problems with the last one. They suspect this is due to the > recent take over of BSDi (once again). > > I don't know if FreeBSD is distributed by anyone else but WC/BSDi. My > impression is that currently the FreeBSD distribution is slowly > sinking. > > In the meanwhile it turns up that NetBSD and OpenBSD CD distributions > are more easily available than FreeBSD so I see myself forced to > switch to one of them. > > -- > walter pelissero > http://www.pelissero.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 7:36:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nwlynx.network-lynx.net (nwlynx.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DACC37B422; Mon, 14 May 2001 07:36:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (doze-1.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.106]) by nwlynx.network-lynx.net (8.11.1/8.9.3/Who.Cares) with ESMTP id f4EEabx61861; Mon, 14 May 2001 08:36:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <3AFFED74.A2EDE0C1@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 08:36:36 -0600 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: walter@pelissero.org Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is distribution sinking? References: <200105141406.PAA08601@pelissero.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Actually, the problems arised one day when I received a letter stating > that Walnut Creek had problems with my credit card and they where > expecting the payment of the last shippment (items I never received). > I had the same problem. They said my CC was declined, but I never got a message saying so. The girl who replied to my query was _rather_ curt as well. They never said I owed them for a non-existent shipment, but I never was alerted to their supposed problems with my CC. I gave them another CC to use, just in case, but nothing happened again until I queried, and I got the same somewhat-obnoxious sort of reply that my CC had been declined. Now, the card I gave them the second time could have been used to buy a battleship on credit, okay? In other words, pure bs. [snip] > > Recently I tried to buy a 4.3 distribution from a local store (London, > UK) and while they had all the releases up to 4.1 they told me they > had problems with the last one. They suspect this is due to the > recent take over of BSDi (once again). > > I don't know if FreeBSD is distributed by anyone else but WC/BSDi. My > impression is that currently the FreeBSD distribution is slowly > sinking. > We here in the States can buy Complete FreeBSD+CD packages from Barnes and Noble, and LIC they had current stock. > In the meanwhile it turns up that NetBSD and OpenBSD CD distributions > are more easily available than FreeBSD so I see myself forced to > switch to one of them. > I concur that there have been distribution problems, but that's not a good basis on which to choose your operating system. If you choose your OS due to the availability of CDs, might I suggest that you also look at a wonderfully-well packaged product from a company called Microsoft? It's available everywhere, and millions of people all over the world think it's the greatest thing since the invention of the Big Mac. ;-) Seriously, Net and Open are both good products. They each have their strong points and their weaknesses. Nobody is "forcing" you to switch, and nobody is going to cry if you do. I personally think both the cross-fertilization and the "competition" between the BSD camps is a Good Thing. Please visit http://www.daemonnews.org for abundant evidence and commentary on all sides of this issue. -- Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 8:17:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net (smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net [212.1.128.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BED637B422; Mon, 14 May 2001 08:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wcp@pelissero.org) Received: from smtp1.cluster1.telinco.net ([212.1.128.150]) by smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14zK5R-000CvY-00; Mon, 14 May 2001 16:16:41 +0100 Received: from daemon.lpds.sublink.org (ppp-2-196.cvx2.telinco.net [212.1.141.196]) by smtp1.cluster1.telinco.net (8.11.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4EFH9d56014; Mon, 14 May 2001 16:17:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from pelissero.org (hyde.lpds.sublink.org [10.0.0.2]) by daemon.lpds.sublink.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA49498; Mon, 14 May 2001 16:03:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from wcp@pelissero.org) Received: (from wcp@localhost) by pelissero.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08871; Mon, 14 May 2001 16:13:40 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from wcp) From: "Walter C. Pelissero" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15103.63012.350812.154664@hyde.lpds.sublink.org> Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:13:40 +0100 To: Don Wilde Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is distribution sinking? In-Reply-To: <3AFFED74.A2EDE0C1@Silver-Lynx.com> References: <200105141406.PAA08601@pelissero.org> <3AFFED74.A2EDE0C1@Silver-Lynx.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 13) "Crater Lake" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: walter@pelissero.org X-Attribution: WP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Don Wilde writes: > I concur that there have been distribution problems, but that's not > a good basis on which to choose your operating system. If you > choose your OS due to the availability of CDs, might I suggest that > you also look at a wonderfully-well packaged product from a company > called Microsoft? It's available everywhere, and millions of > people all over the world think it's the greatest thing since the > invention of the Big Mac. ;-) I might have been misunderstood. With my statement I didn't want to say that FreeBSD is a bad OS because not well distributed elswere than within the US. As I said it's not a technical issue that made me think about switching OS, but simply the unavailability in the place I happen to live (London). This doesn't involve any opinion on the quality of the OS itself. Regarding the choice. Well, it seems to me that I can't choose a Porsche if I don't have the money to buy one, even if I belive it's the best car in the world. Likewise I can't choose an OS that is not available. Therefore, even if the basis of my choice is technical, I have to face practical reality to have it realized, or I just keep on wishfully thinking. Downloading the CDROM images is unfortunately not an option for me. I belive it's the same for the majority of the distribution subscribers, or there would be no point in buying the CDs in the first place. -- walter pelissero http://www.pelissero.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 8:28:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bubble.via-net-works.ie (bubble.via-net-works.ie [212.17.32.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B728337B423; Mon, 14 May 2001 08:28:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from relyod@cooperationireland.org) Received: from aftereight.dialups.via-net-works.ie ([212.17.34.16] helo=cooperationireland.org) by bubble.via-net-works.ie with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #2) id 14zKGx-0007r9-00; Mon, 14 May 2001 15:28:36 +0000 Received: from it1 (it1 [199.107.2.129]) by cooperationireland.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f4EFSWT77628; Mon, 14 May 2001 16:28:34 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from relyod@cooperationireland.org) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20010514162837.00831930@199.107.2.1> X-Sender: relyod@199.107.2.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:28:37 +0100 To: walter@pelissero.org From: Mike Doyle Subject: Availablity in UK (WAS Re: is distribution sinking?) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <15103.63012.350812.154664@hyde.lpds.sublink.org> References: <3AFFED74.A2EDE0C1@Silver-Lynx.com> <200105141406.PAA08601@pelissero.org> <3AFFED74.A2EDE0C1@Silver-Lynx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 16:13 14/05/01 +0100, Walter C. Pelissero wrote: > > I might have been misunderstood. With my statement I didn't want to > say that FreeBSD is a bad OS because not well distributed elswere than > within the US. As I said it's not a technical issue that made me > think about switching OS, but simply the unavailability in the place I > happen to live (London). This doesn't involve any opinion on the > quality of the OS itself. I found that Public Domain Software ( http://www.pdsl.com/ ) are a fairly reliable re-distributor in the UK. They accept CC orders, and postage from them costs quite a bit less than from WC/BSDi in the USA. They got their shipment of 4.2 CDs from WC/BSDi about 6 weeks after it was released in the USA. <>< ============================================================= ><> Michael Doyle email: relyod@cooperationireland.org Network Administrator personal email: relyod@indigo.ie Co-operation Ireland http://www.cooperationireland.org/ Phone: +353-1-661 0588 Fax: +353-1-661 8456 ********************************************************************* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 17:11:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from madcap.apk.net (madcap.apk.net [207.54.158.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69D537B422 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 17:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@apk.net) X-IP-Test: 207.54.148.235 Received: from localhost (stuart.apk.net [207.54.148.235]) by madcap.apk.net (8.11.2/8.11.2/apk.010219+rchk1.22+bspm1.13.1.5a) with ESMTP id f4F0BCS12970 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 20:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200105150011.f4F0BCS12970@madcap.apk.net> Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 20:11:07 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1903493171-2 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388) From: Stuart Krivis To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) In-Reply-To: <200105140219.f4E2JY549635@grumpy.dyndns.org> Subject: Re: Crap OS X Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Apple-Mail-1903493171-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii On Sunday, May 13, 2001, at 10:19 PM, David Kelly wrote: > > My Titanium PowerBook G4-400 cost $2600 but http://www.outpost.com/ > threw > in overnight shipping, leather carrying case, and an extra 128MB of RAM > (for 256MB). Then another $100 or so for MacOS X because they don't ship > One of my cow-orkers got the same deal. She got an Outpost.com slinky too. :-) > it standard, yet. While that's more than an iBook or G4 desktop, I've > never had a laptop before. Love it. Also buy a Logitech Optical Wheel > Mouse, the blue/silver one which is "PS2/USB Compatible". At $30 its at > least as good as Apple's $60 mouse, and slides better. > I got the plain beige version of this mouse for $20 at Best Buy. > Part of my problem is I have about 10 years of history in the Mac > files I > drag around. Is terribly easy to buy a new machine with bigger HD, drag > the entire old HD to a folder in the new, and everything works. So I > have > about 3 folders of prior machines that I ought to spend a couple of days > cleaning out. Have long since thrown away the System Folders but keep a > stuffed copy as there is no telling what Preferences file I might need > later for having forgotten a serial number. > Maybe you could just burn some of this to CD? I did this with Photoshop since I no longer use it very much. If I need it, I just drag it to my HD, use it, and drag it to the trash when I'm done. > > Retrospect from Dantz is about the only Mac backup utility available. > Its > Veritas Backup Exec also has a Mac client. Retrospect is quite good though. Too bad they don't support unix... --Apple-Mail-1903493171-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii On Sunday, May 13, 2001, at 10:19 PM, David Kelly wrote: My Titanium PowerBook G4-400 cost $2600 but http://www.outpost.com/ threw in overnight shipping, leather carrying case, and an extra 128MB of RAM (for 256MB). Then another $100 or so for MacOS X because they don't ship One of my cow-orkers got the same deal. She got an Outpost.com slinky too. :-) it standard, yet. While that's more than an iBook or G4 desktop, I've never had a laptop before. Love it. Also buy a Logitech Optical Wheel=20 Mouse, the blue/silver one which is "PS2/USB Compatible". At $30 its at=20 least as good as Apple's $60 mouse, and slides better. I got the plain beige version of this mouse for $20 at Best Buy.=20 0000,0000,DEB7 Part of my problem is I have about 10 years of history in the Mac files I=20 drag around. Is terribly easy to buy a new machine with bigger HD, drag=20 the entire old HD to a folder in the new, and everything works. So I have=20 about 3 folders of prior machines that I ought to spend a couple of days=20 cleaning out. Have long since thrown away the System Folders but keep a=20 stuffed copy as there is no telling what Preferences file I might need=20= later for having forgotten a serial number. Maybe you could just burn some of this to CD? I did this with Photoshop since I no longer use it very much. If I need it, I just drag it to my HD, use it, and drag it to the trash when I'm done. 0000,0000,DEB7 Retrospect from Dantz is about the only Mac backup utility available. Its=20 Veritas Backup Exec also has a Mac client. Retrospect is quite good though. Too bad they don't support unix... --Apple-Mail-1903493171-2-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 17:24:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from puzo.uol.com.br (puzo.uol.com.br [200.231.206.183]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D770D37B423 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 17:24:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tirloni@din.uem.br) Received: from 200191083219-dial-user-UOL.acessonet.com.br (200191083219-dial-user-UOL.acessonet.com.br [200.191.83.219]) by puzo.uol.com.br (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19778; Mon, 14 May 2001 21:22:55 -0300 (BRT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 17:27:10 -0300 (BRT) From: Giovanni Picoli Tirloni X-X-Sender: To: "Walter C. Pelissero" Cc: Subject: Re: is distribution sinking? In-Reply-To: <200105141406.PAA08601@pelissero.org> Message-ID: <20010514170206.D471-100000@mink.ath.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 14 May 2001, Walter C. Pelissero wrote: > I'm writing this as a sort of open letter to the FreeBSD community > because I belive my concerns may be shared by a big part of it. > > Last year I decided to discontinue my subscription to the FreeBSD > CDROM. I've been subscribed since almost the first CDROM issue (on > single media at that time). My decision wasn't easy and didn't come > out of technical or religious motivations. It was mainly bad customer > support. > > Actually, the problems arised one day when I received a letter stating > that Walnut Creek had problems with my credit card and they where > expecting the payment of the last shippment (items I never received). > > Well, not a big deal. I mailed the required informations and asked > informations about the never-delivered CDs. No answer. Ok, I assumed > the subscription would come in effect starting with the next issue. > Nope. > > Since then I never received anything (but I haven't been charged for > anything) and all my e-mails have been ignored. Ok, I let my > subscription got frogotten. Just because you couldn't receive your copy of the CDs that doesn't mean the project is sinking. Shipping has nothing to do with development and if you really would like to have a copy you could just login on any ftp server (to mention one of the many alternatives) and grab it at any time. Selling CDs is just a support service that Walnut Creek (and many others) does for the community. > Recently I tried to buy a 4.3 distribution from a local store (London, > UK) and while they had all the releases up to 4.1 they told me they > had problems with the last one. They suspect this is due to the > recent take over of BSDi (once again). > > I don't know if FreeBSD is distributed by anyone else but WC/BSDi. My > impression is that currently the FreeBSD distribution is slowly > sinking. Again, does "sinking" mean developers leaving the project ? I can't see anyone doing this so, for me, it's not sinking in any way. If you're in doubt just look at the development of -CURRENT, it has quite impresive new features that probably a "sinking" project wouldn't have planned to add since it's "sinking" anyway. > In the meanwhile it turns up that NetBSD and OpenBSD CD distributions > are more easily available than FreeBSD so I see myself forced to > switch to one of them. Despite our problems with the main ftp server these days I don't see why these OS'es are more easily avaiable than FreeBSD. You can go to www.FreeBSDMirrors.org and pick up the nearest mirror(s). CDs aren't the only way to have it in your system. Don't make precipitate assumptions about anything, just my $0.02. -- Giovanni Picoli Tirloni tirloni@din.uem.br To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 19:26:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-76-217.knology.net [24.214.76.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C68537B42C for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:26:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4F2QM558684; Mon, 14 May 2001 21:26:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200105150226.f4F2QM558684@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Stuart Krivis Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Crap OS X In-reply-to: Message from Stuart Krivis of "Mon, 14 May 2001 20:11:07 EDT." <200105150011.f4F0BCS12970@madcap.apk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 21:26:22 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Stuart Krivis writes: > > One of my cow-orkers got the same deal. She got an Outpost.com slinky > too. :-) Purchased a Seagate 5400 RPM 40G ATA-100 drive $115 from Outpost last week, arrived this morning, and took a few moments to realize what that plastic spiral thing was. > > Part of my problem is I have about 10 years of history in the Mac > > files I > > drag around. Is terribly easy to buy a new machine with bigger HD, drag > > the entire old HD to a folder in the new, and everything works. > > Maybe you could just burn some of this to CD? I did this with Photoshop > since I no longer use it very much. If I need it, I just drag it to my > HD, use it, and drag it to the trash when I'm done. I have a nice collection of DDS tapes with exactly that on it. But the whole point was that with enough disk space there is no motivation to clean up my mess. I just bring the old filesystems with me as folders on the new. After the initial move I use StuffIt on the old System Folder and trash the original. A Mac is wonderful about being perfectly happy to run an OS restored from a compressed archive. A Mac is wonderful about letting you drag/drop INIT's, CDEV's, preferences, and extensions from one System Folder to another. Other things I trash are multiple copies of Disk First Aid, Simple Text, Qued/M, Nisus, MacDraw Pro ... > > Retrospect from Dantz is about the only Mac backup utility available. > > Its > > > > Veritas Backup Exec also has a Mac client. Retrospect is quite good > though. Too bad they don't support unix... "client" won't cut my mustard. Then again, I run Retrospect clients on other Macs and NT systems to back *them* up. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 19:48:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.169.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE0C37B42C; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:48:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedm.placo.com (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [206.29.168.154]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f4F2mNk43201; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: , "Don Wilde" Cc: , Subject: RE: is distribution sinking? Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:48:23 -0700 Message-ID: <003401c0dce9$82292880$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-Reply-To: <15103.63012.350812.154664@hyde.lpds.sublink.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi Walter, C'mon, your living in the largest city in the world, there must be at least one or two other FreeBSD users that you could form a user group with, or at least who would be happy to burn you off a copy of the CD. While there's a lot of advantages to a world-wide mailing list like freebsd-chat, there's also some advantages of a smaller, local mailing list/user group too. Ted Mittelstaedt tedm@toybox.placo.com Author of: The FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide Book website: http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Walter C. >Pelissero >Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 8:14 AM >To: Don Wilde >Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG >Subject: Re: is distribution sinking? > > >Don Wilde writes: > > I concur that there have been distribution problems, but that's not > > a good basis on which to choose your operating system. If you > > choose your OS due to the availability of CDs, might I suggest that > > you also look at a wonderfully-well packaged product from a company > > called Microsoft? It's available everywhere, and millions of > > people all over the world think it's the greatest thing since the > > invention of the Big Mac. ;-) > >I might have been misunderstood. With my statement I didn't want to >say that FreeBSD is a bad OS because not well distributed elswere than >within the US. As I said it's not a technical issue that made me >think about switching OS, but simply the unavailability in the place I >happen to live (London). This doesn't involve any opinion on the >quality of the OS itself. > >Regarding the choice. Well, it seems to me that I can't choose a >Porsche if I don't have the money to buy one, even if I belive it's >the best car in the world. Likewise I can't choose an OS that is not >available. Therefore, even if the basis of my choice is technical, I >have to face practical reality to have it realized, or I just keep on >wishfully thinking. > >Downloading the CDROM images is unfortunately not an option for me. I >belive it's the same for the majority of the distribution subscribers, >or there would be no point in buying the CDs in the first place. > >-- >walter pelissero >http://www.pelissero.org > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 19:53:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (unknown [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C91837B424 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:53:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4F2rS078882; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:53:28 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sue) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:53:28 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Giovanni Picoli Tirloni Cc: "Walter C. Pelissero" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: is distribution sinking? Message-ID: <20010515125328.H26132@welearn.com.au> Mail-Followup-To: Sue Blake , Giovanni Picoli Tirloni , "Walter C. Pelissero" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <200105141406.PAA08601@pelissero.org> <20010514170206.D471-100000@mink.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010514170206.D471-100000@mink.ath.cx>; from tirloni@din.uem.br on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:27:10PM -0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:27:10PM -0300, Giovanni Picoli Tirloni wrote: [...] > and if you really would like to have a copy you could just > login on any ftp server (to mention one of the many alternatives) and > grab it at any time. [...] > Despite our problems with the main ftp server these days I don't see > why these OS'es are more easily avaiable than FreeBSD. You can go to > www.FreeBSDMirrors.org and pick up the nearest mirror(s). CDs aren't > the only way to have it in your system. And then > Don't make precipitate assumptions about anything, just my $0.02. Pot... kettle... black -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 19:59:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from salesforce.com (nat-63-150-46-70.salesforce.com [63.150.46.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEE637B423; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ggong@cal.alumni.berkeley.edu) Received: from ggongws (ggong-ws.internal.salesforce.com [10.0.15.25]) by salesforce.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f4F2xaJ02728; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:59:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ggong@cal.alumni.berkeley.edu) Message-ID: <005501c0dceb$140e4a40$190f000a@ggongws> From: "Gilbert Gong" To: , Subject: license plate Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:59:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org While browsing the web, and coming across these: http://www.unix-systems.org/unix_plates.html I decided to hack this up, for fun: http://ggong.baycis.com/public/unixlike_plate.jpg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 22:34:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CC737B422 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:34:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2669966C8C; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:34:11 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: onitoring named Message-ID: <20010514223411.A95997@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010514204716.A94166@xor.obsecurity.org> <009801c0dcff$db26d3e0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <009801c0dcff$db26d3e0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from tedm@toybox.placo.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:28:21PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:28:21PM -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG > >[mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Kris Kennaway > > > >Yes, there are in general lots of reasons why things like named dump > >core, but in the case of named it's (at the present time) most likely > >to be the reason already given, and once that's ruled out analysis can > >proceed to other causes. > > >=20 > Spoken like someone who is more interested in seeing the world's > nameservers running an invulnerable version of Bind than in actually > fixing problems. While frustrating crackers is a laudable goal, you > might as well just be honest and come right out and say it! ;-) And how are they mutually exclusive things? Kris --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7AL/TWry0BWjoQKURAtqkAKDv9Q4+Nsr9s3K5xN/Rjj9VhYP9jgCgx39k vKJLXNzLU9SQ3bjuT8gGsO4= =VvLU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EeQfGwPcQSOJBaQU-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon May 14 22:35:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC9837B424 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:35:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EDC2566D87; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:35:16 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: onitoring named Message-ID: <20010514223516.B95997@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010514222845.C95631@xor.obsecurity.org> <00a401c0dd00$647372c0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZfOjI3PrQbgiZnxM" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <00a401c0dd00$647372c0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com>; from tedm@toybox.placo.com on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:32:12PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --ZfOjI3PrQbgiZnxM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:32:12PM -0700, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Kris Kennaway [mailto:kris@obsecurity.org] >=20 > >b) at the present time, until the trend substantially changes (maybe > >in 6 months or so). > > >=20 > :-) No, they will just find yet another hole then and the merry go > round will start all over again. What man can lock, man can unlock. Perhaps. That doesn't affect the logic of the argument I presented to you. Kris --ZfOjI3PrQbgiZnxM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7AMATWry0BWjoQKURAp9KAJ40KrP07aPkDM/DGJr8CnBLJj+cygCdH2qk 5ik/jujA/tqpPMKUTRYpZ1Y= =hvIL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZfOjI3PrQbgiZnxM-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 3:36:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net (smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net [212.1.128.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF4637B422; Tue, 15 May 2001 03:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wcp@pelissero.org) Received: from smtp2.cluster1.telinco.net ([212.1.128.151]) by smarthost-1.mail.telinco.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14zcBL-000C5Z-00; Tue, 15 May 2001 11:35:59 +0100 Received: from daemon.lpds.sublink.org (ppp-1-155.cvx6.telinco.net [212.1.156.155]) by smtp2.cluster1.telinco.net (8.11.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f4FAaQv88800; Tue, 15 May 2001 11:36:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from pelissero.org (hyde.lpds.sublink.org [10.0.0.2]) by daemon.lpds.sublink.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA50614; Tue, 15 May 2001 11:22:46 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from wcp@pelissero.org) Received: (from wcp@localhost) by pelissero.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09839; Tue, 15 May 2001 11:34:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from wcp) From: "Walter C. Pelissero" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15105.1600.661599.725253@hyde.lpds.sublink.org> Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:34:40 +0100 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: is distribution sinking? In-Reply-To: References: <3B001A7F.CD39EB45@acuson.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 13) "Crater Lake" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: walter@pelissero.org X-Attribution: WP Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok. It turned out that it was me not knowing other distributors of FreeBSD: I've been a WC/BSDi subscriber for too long time. :-) Actually, a brief search with Google listed only a few shops that *used* to have FreeBSD or get it once in a while. I especially thank Mike Doyle (relyod@cooperationireland.org) who pointed out a distributor in UK. -- walter pelissero http://www.pelissero.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 3:55:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131F837B422 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 03:55:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f4FAtYO04458; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:55:34 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010514223516.B95997@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010514222845.C95631@xor.obsecurity.org> <00a401c0dd00$647372c0$1401a8c0@tedm.placo.com> <20010514223516.B95997@xor.obsecurity.org> Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:48:25 +0200 To: Kris Kennaway , Ted Mittelstaedt From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: onitoring named Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:35 PM -0700 5/14/01, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> :-) No, they will just find yet another hole then and the merry go >> round will start all over again. What man can lock, man can unlock. > > Perhaps. That doesn't affect the logic of the argument I presented to > you. The advantage of using BIND version 9 is that the playing field has been completely changed. BINDv9 is much more paranoid about checking all of its inputs at every possible stage, and if they aren't what it would expect, then it dies and errors out. This puts a great deal of pressure on the programmers to make sure that they properly sanitize everything and eliminate all possible ways to make the code insecure, because they don't want copies of BIND crashing all over the world and bringing down DNS for the entire Internet. This makes it much, much more difficult to subvert BINDv9 than earlier versions, and with the problems of malloc() having been located in BIND 9.1 by Rick Jones, improvements are underway with 9.2 that should make it as fast or faster than any other nameserver on the planet (on the same hardware). Moreover, it should also be as secure or more secure than any other nameserver on the planet, and that should pretty much end the discussion on this topic. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 10:33:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9450E37B424; Tue, 15 May 2001 10:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08700; Tue, 15 May 2001 11:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:29:28 -0600 To: brett@lariat.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This just in: Opera Software is porting their browser to QNX, an operating system most frequently used for embedded work, but still does not officially support any of the BSDs... despite the fact that the latter operating systems have a much larger installed base. Here's the press release: Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:47:19 +0200 From: Live Leer Subject: IBM Goes for Opera Opera signals lead in the Internet appliance market: IBM Goes for Opera OSLO - May 15, 2001 - Opera Software today announced that IBM has chose Opera 5.0 for QNX for their NetVista Internet Appliance. This is Opera's first major contract for its newly developed Opera for QNX browser, and another confirmation that the industry's largest players are joining forces with Opera. Earlier Opera has announced partnerships with industry leaders such as AMD, Ericsson, Psion, and Be. "Signing with IBM is a major breakthrough for Opera Software," says Jon S. von Tetzchner, CEO, Opera Software. "Today's announcement is the first in a series that will show that Opera has taken the lead in the Internet appliance market." Opera 5.0 for QNX is a new platform for the Opera Web browser. QNX brings the total number of Opera platforms up to six; Windows, Linux, MacOS, EPOC, BeOS/BeIA, and now QNX. Opera started developing for QNX after being approached by IBM in November 2000. "The fast development cycle that we managed for IBM was in great part due to Opera's unique cross-platform technology," says Hakon Lie, CTO, Opera Software. "We have in a very short time managed give the QNX platform a browser that is both fast, stable, and full-featured." In most cases, embedded Internet devices are also memory-constrained, and the platforms and applications that run on them have to be scaled to fit the device. Opera is the ideal Web browser choice for the embedded market, based on its characteristics of being small, fast, configurable, while still full-featured. The unique cross-platform core enables the browser to be easily ported to other emerging platforms, and simplifies overall maintenance. Opera for QNX will be made available for public download in the weeks to come. Editor's note: For a photograph of IBM's NetVista Internet Appliance see http://www.ibm.com/pressphoto.nsf/photoview under "NetVista" About Opera Software Opera Software AS is an industry leader in the development of Web browsers for the desktop and device markets. The Opera browser has received international recognition from users and the industry press for being faster, smaller and more standards-compliant than other browsers. Opera Software AS is a privately held company headquartered in Oslo, Norway. Learn more about Opera at www.opera.com Contact: Pal A. Hvistendahl, Communications Manager, pal@opera.com, +47 99 72 4331 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 12: 7:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web13607.mail.yahoo.com (web13607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6542237B424 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bzdik@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010515190713.90943.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.16.193.228] by web13607.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:07:13 PDT Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:07:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Bzdik BSD Subject: Re: Crap OS X To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Brad Knowles wrote: > At 5:45 PM -0400 5/13/01, Stuart Krivis wrote: > > > Have they actually announced that support is available? The last > time I > > looked into it, they were still saying it wasn't ready. > > To the best of my knowledge, the drivers shipped by Sonnet & XLR8 > work just fine, and MacOS X works as well on their upgrade cards as > it does on the Apple original G3 & G4 hardware. > he still may need to install it on another "proper" chipset and then move the hard drive - depends on his cloner's chipset revision. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 12:16:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B4837B422 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:16:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9BC3066C8C; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:16:29 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Message-ID: <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="J/dobhs11T7y2rNN" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:29:28AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --J/dobhs11T7y2rNN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 11:29:28AM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > This just in: Opera Software is porting their browser to QNX, an=20 > operating system most frequently used for embedded work, but still does= =20 > not officially support any of the BSDs... despite the fact that the=20 > latter operating systems have a much larger installed base. Here's the=20 > press release: Yeah, so? Do you think Opera did this for free? How much are you paying them to do the port to FreeBSD? Kris --J/dobhs11T7y2rNN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7AYCMWry0BWjoQKURAnhyAKDBZhARV3XusYBw29zEASTNmx/IdwCfXF1y Tg7GUx+31VdsG/71oLVCMAU= =TyNn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --J/dobhs11T7y2rNN-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 12:24:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2CE37B424 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09915; Tue, 15 May 2001 13:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:20:12 -0600 To: Kris Kennaway From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:16 PM 5/15/2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: >Yeah, so? Do you think Opera did this for free? How much are you >paying them to do the port to FreeBSD? There are so many more users of the BSDs than IBM is ever likely to get for its "Internet appliance." So, even if IBM is helping to finance the port, in the long run a native port to the BSDs has greater revenue potential for Opera. Opera isn't thinking. Furthermore, Wind River should be greatly concerned about this development, because it puts their embedded BSD offerings at a disadvantage relative to QNX. They should be howling about this and perhaps financing a port. Of course, we might have seen a BSD port much sooner had the BSDs not made the incredibly unwise mis-step of incorporating support for Linux binaries. By doing this rather than making a BSD API emulator for Linux, they've guaranteed that Linux development will come first and BSD development last. This is just one more case where it's happened. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 12:39:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smyk.apk.net (smyk.apk.net [207.54.158.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B40F37B422 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 12:39:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ipswitch@kleenex.apk.net) Received: from kleenex.apk.net (mail@kleenex.apk.net [207.54.133.91]) by smyk.apk.net (8.11.2/8.11.2/apk.010219+rchk1.22+bspm1.13.1.5a) with ESMTP id f4FJdDA16325 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipswitch by kleenex.apk.net with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14zkf3-0002N5-00 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:39:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:39:13 -0400 From: Stuart Krivis To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Crap OS X Message-ID: <20010515153913.B6684@kleenex.apk.net> References: <200105132145.f4DLjjd20553@madcap.apk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from brad.knowles@skynet.be on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:23:10AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:23:10AM +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > > > I've seen G4 400 towers selling for under $1000 refurbished. A B&W G3 350 > > like I have was even less. By the time you get an accelerator ($300+), > > more RAM, and a video adapter that will do justice to OS X, it probably > > is better to just buy a more modern machine. Sad, but true... > > A G4 tower or a B&W G3 shouldn't need any kind of CPU upgrade in > order to run MacOS X. You might need more RAM, or a compatible video > card, and you might *want* a faster CPU, but that shouldn't be > necessary. Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I meant that a Yosemite, Yikes, or Sawtooth machine is not that expensive, so by the time you would upgrade anything older, you'd be better off buying one of these. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 13: 9: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nwlynx.network-lynx.net (nwlynx.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC6937B423; Tue, 15 May 2001 13:08:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (doze-1.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.106]) by nwlynx.network-lynx.net (8.11.1/8.9.3/Who.Cares) with ESMTP id f4FK91x39533; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:09:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <3B018CD5.ABFEB7D5@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:08:53 -0600 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gilbert Gong Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: license plate References: <005501c0dceb$140e4a40$190f000a@ggongws> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Gilbert Gong wrote: > > While browsing the web, and coming across these: > http://www.unix-systems.org/unix_plates.html > I decided to hack this up, for fun: > http://ggong.baycis.com/public/unixlike_plate.jpg Hmmm... Seems New Hampshire is backing away from that honorable sentiment, so I'd call it appropriate to appropriate their slogan. Let's go the rest of the way to 'LIVE FREE OR DIE... FreeBSD' :-) If we can get THEM stamped, I'd buy a bunch! -- Don Wilde http://www.Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 14: 5:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF73F37B422 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:05:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3A7BD66C8C; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:05:29 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Brett Glass Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Message-ID: <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:20:12PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:20:12PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > There are so many more users of the BSDs than IBM is ever likely to > get for its "Internet appliance." So, even if IBM is helping to > finance the port, in the long run a native port to the BSDs has > greater revenue potential for Opera. Opera isn't thinking. "No, no, please don't give us your wads of money, IBM, it will be bad for our business." Right-o, Brett. > Furthermore, Wind River should be greatly concerned about this > development, because it puts their embedded BSD offerings at a > disadvantage relative to QNX. They should be howling about this > and perhaps financing a port. It seems you've confused chat@FreeBSD.org with a Wind River suggestions box. > Of course, we might have seen a BSD port much sooner had the BSDs > not made the incredibly unwise mis-step of incorporating support > for Linux binaries. By doing this rather than making a BSD API > emulator for Linux, they've guaranteed that Linux development > will come first and BSD development last. This is just one more > case where it's happened. Yeah, that would have been a smart move..then I just couldn't run Opera on FreeBSD at all. That would certainly show them. Kris P.S. Just so you know, when you turn this thread into one of your interminable rants about the mistakes FreeBSD is making and how you have all the answers about what we should be doing, I will be firmly ignoring you. --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7AZoYWry0BWjoQKURAkexAJ9WBP78aVgk5LL8EqtTHj59SQfDCACfY2kQ 5F3ORrR4CnFppdhiXUKAQ2M= =WdD6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 14:14:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA1D37B422 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:14:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.147]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0GDE00K4WAYYO2@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DC7101868; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:13:41 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-reply-to: <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:05:29PM -0700 To: Kris Kennaway Cc: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:05:29PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Yeah, that would have been a smart move..then I just couldn't run > Opera on FreeBSD at all. That would certainly show them. Yeah, big loss. Have you guys even checked out the competition? Konqueror is more powerful, and it's free. And it's pretty damn fast too. But you don't want to install KDE libs+base you say? So go grab kdelibs and the "kdenox" sources and build away. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 14:21:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89F237B424 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6B32C66C8C; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:21:52 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Alex Zepeda Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Message-ID: <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> Reply-To: chat@FreeBSD.org References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip>; from jazepeda@pacbell.net on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:13:41PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:13:41PM -0700, Alex Zepeda wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:05:29PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: >=20 > > Yeah, that would have been a smart move..then I just couldn't run > > Opera on FreeBSD at all. That would certainly show them. >=20 > Yeah, big loss. Have you guys even checked out the competition? >=20 > Konqueror is more powerful, and it's free. And it's pretty damn fast too. >=20 > But you don't want to install KDE libs+base you say? So go grab kdelibs > and the "kdenox" sources and build away. I'm also going to ignore another round of browser wars 2001 :-) Kris --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7AZ3vWry0BWjoQKURAnxqAKChLI06gLVEPhxHr0DkVLq/WkC64gCfXiVW CQv0o9bDPyCvyo2ltSJdHgU= =VDE2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 14:30:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EC137B423 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:30:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.147]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0GDE006EMBM5NL@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 52C841868; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:27:38 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-reply-to: <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org>; from kris@obsecurity.org on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:21:52PM -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:21:52PM -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > I'm also going to ignore another round of browser wars 2001 :-) Sure, but that just goes to prove that Opera is only of use to those who want the Opera name. And.. is the Opera brand really that big of a deal? FreeBSD does not need any of the unmaintained, commercial, closed source brwosers that work, somewhat on FreeBSD. We've got , and yes it does Netscape plugins as well... Opera would add nothing, except for the semblance of commercial support. But hey, they've gotta know that they're up against some pretty stiff competition out here. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 14:43:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83FEC37B422 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11548; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:42:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153137.044ee4d0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:38:12 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Alex Zepeda From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: Kris Kennaway In-Reply-To: <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:21 PM 5/15/2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: >"No, no, please don't give us your wads of money, IBM, it will be bad >for our business." Right-o, Brett. If IBM distracts Opera from a larger and more lucrative market, then, yes, it's bad for Opera's business. What's more, IBM is not in the habit of just giving companies wads of money. Like many large companies, it often provides a small amount of money and hints that larger amounts may follow. But they often don't. Doing business with a large company such as IBM is a big risk. >It seems you've confused chat@FreeBSD.org with a Wind River >suggestions box. A number of people who care about the future of Wind River and BSDi are present here. There's certainly nothing wrong with giving them a "heads up" in this forum, especially when an announcement indicates that a competitor is gaining an edge. >> Of course, we might have seen a BSD port much sooner had the BSDs >> not made the incredibly unwise mis-step of incorporating support >> for Linux binaries. By doing this rather than making a BSD API >> emulator for Linux, they've guaranteed that Linux development >> will come first and BSD development last. This is just one more >> case where it's happened. > >Yeah, that would have been a smart move..then I just couldn't run >Opera on FreeBSD at all. That would certainly show them. In fact, it would. They developed for BeOS, for example, because BeOS users couldn't just muddle through with emulation/binary compatibility. The presence of the Linux ABI relegated the BSDs to the back burner. >P.S. Just so you know, when you turn this thread into one of your >interminable rants about the mistakes FreeBSD is making and how you >have all the answers about what we should be doing, I will be firmly >ignoring you. You are perfectly within your rights to ignore me if you so choose. But it seems to me that this would be playing "ostrich," as so many in the BSD world seem to do. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 14:45:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB64737B424 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11581; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:40:38 -0600 To: Alex Zepeda , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> References: <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:27 PM 5/15/2001, Alex Zepeda wrote: >Sure, but that just goes to prove that Opera is only of use to those who >want the Opera name. Not so. It's a good browser and e-mail client. >FreeBSD does not need any of the unmaintained, commercial, closed source >brwosers that work, somewhat on FreeBSD. We've got choice here>, and yes it does Netscape plugins as well... It would be far better to have a maintained, supported, commercial version of Opera's browser. Unfortunately, this will not happen unless the BSD community takes some initiative. This means that both BSDi and the users need to rattle Opera's cage. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 14:46:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6B537B43C for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11600; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:46:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515154054.045e3380@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:41:40 -0600 To: Alex Zepeda From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> References: <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:13 PM 5/15/2001, Alex Zepeda wrote: >Yeah, big loss. Have you guys even checked out the competition? > >Konqueror is more powerful, and it's free. It is not free. It is GPLed. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 15: 1:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from newgold.net (usr.srcsys.org [209.42.222.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29E9B37B42C for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:01:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@newgold.net) Received: (qmail 30759 invoked by uid 1000); 15 May 2001 21:58:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:58:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph A. Mallett" X-X-Sender: To: Brett Glass Cc: Alex Zepeda , Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515154054.045e3380@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 15 May 2001, Brett Glass wrote: > At 03:13 PM 5/15/2001, Alex Zepeda wrote: > > >Yeah, big loss. Have you guys even checked out the competition? > > > >Konqueror is more powerful, and it's free. > > It is not free. It is GPLed. > > --Brett Glass > Freedom through bondage. Ever read "A Clockwork Orange" ? -- [ Joseph Mallett ] [ http://srcsys.org ] [ xMach Core Team xMach: Proactively Unbloated Microkernel BSD ] [ Proud {Free,Net}BSD User; (Obj)C(++) Programmer ] [ http://xMach.org ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 15: 4:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E522837B424 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:04:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.147]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0GDE009PID92C3@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 82D9B1868; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:03:00 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-reply-to: ; from jmallett@xMach.org on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:58:34PM -0400 To: "Joseph A. Mallett" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010515150300.C3849@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515154054.045e3380@localhost> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:58:34PM -0400, Joseph A. Mallett wrote: > Freedom through bondage. It's free as in no money. If Brett were actually interested in the source, he wouldn't be interested in Opera, thus the GPL is a non issue. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue May 15 15: 9:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8443937B423 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:09:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11935; Tue, 15 May 2001 16:08:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515160312.044ae650@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:04:07 -0600 To: Alex Zepeda , "Joseph A. Mallett" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010515150300.C3849@zippy.mybox.zip> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515154054.045e3380@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:03 PM 5/15/2001, Alex Zepeda wrote: >If Brett were actually interested in the source, he wouldn't be interested >in Opera, thus the GPL is a non issue. Not true. The GPL has serious ethical issues even for those of us who do not happen to use the source ourselves. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 3:34:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B2237B422 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 03:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f4GAYKR56356 ; Wed, 16 May 2001 12:34:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id MAA49667 ; Wed, 16 May 2001 12:34:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:34:43 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brett Glass Cc: Alex Zepeda , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Message-ID: <20010516123443.B49269@lpt.ens.fr> References: <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 03:40:38PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass said on May 15, 2001 at 15:40:38: > > It would be far better to have a maintained, supported, commercial version > of Opera's browser. Unfortunately, this will not happen unless the BSD > community takes some initiative. This means that both BSDi and the users > need to rattle Opera's cage. http://www.opera.com/linux/faq.html They do support NetBSD 1.5, and are actively working on supporting the other BSD's soon. R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 7:35:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from newgold.net (usr.srcsys.org [209.42.222.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AFC2837B422 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 07:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@newgold.net) Received: (qmail 8546 invoked by uid 1000); 16 May 2001 14:32:39 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:32:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph A. Mallett" X-X-Sender: To: Rahul Siddharthan Cc: Brett Glass , Alex Zepeda , Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <20010516123443.B49269@lpt.ens.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I love how these are versions of linux they're porting to: SGI IRIX 6.5 or better 32 bit Sun Solaris for x86 and Sparc FreeBSD 3.4 x86 OpenBSD 2.6 x86 SCO UnixWare 7.1 SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 NetBSD 1.4 And how these are the distros they currently run on: Corel 1.0 Caldera 2.2 Debian Potato 2.2 Mandrake 6.0, Mandrake 7.1, Mandrake 7.2 ---NetBSD 1.5_BETA/i386 --- RedHat 6.1, RedHat 6.2, Redhat 7.0 Slackware 7 SuSE 7.0 YellowDog 2.2 -- [ Joseph Mallett ] [ http://srcsys.org ] [ xMach Core Team xMach: Proactively Unbloated Microkernel BSD ] [ Proud {Free,Net}BSD User; (Obj)C(++) Programmer ] [ http://xMach.org ] On Wed, 16 May 2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Brett Glass said on May 15, 2001 at 15:40:38: > > > > It would be far better to have a maintained, supported, commercial version > > of Opera's browser. Unfortunately, this will not happen unless the BSD > > community takes some initiative. This means that both BSDi and the users > > need to rattle Opera's cage. > > http://www.opera.com/linux/faq.html > > They do support NetBSD 1.5, and are actively working on supporting the > other BSD's soon. > > R > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 10: 7:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-32.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A768637B422 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 10:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DD70766C8C; Wed, 16 May 2001 10:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:07:52 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Fenix xxx Cc: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: unix Message-ID: <20010516100752.B31096@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010516150424.08d8a935.belzebub@poczta.arena.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5/uDoXvLw7AC5HRs" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010516150424.08d8a935.belzebub@poczta.arena.pl>; from belzebub@poczta.arena.pl on Wed, May 16, 2001 at 03:04:24PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --5/uDoXvLw7AC5HRs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 03:04:24PM +0200, Fenix xxx wrote: >=20 > is unix world dying ??? Yes. Shit..I mean "No". Please forget I said anything. Kris --5/uDoXvLw7AC5HRs Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7ArPoWry0BWjoQKURAiEIAJ4s05t0FQsu/8dvvz6Tx2EvD/hHtwCg26Kj TX/pOv5QuGqb2gcDaQxOPS4= =d7L/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5/uDoXvLw7AC5HRs-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 10:10: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from newgold.net (usr.srcsys.org [209.42.222.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C486837B422 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 10:09:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@newgold.net) Received: (qmail 30174 invoked by uid 1000); 16 May 2001 17:07:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 13:07:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph A. Mallett" X-X-Sender: To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Fenix xxx , Subject: Re: unix In-Reply-To: <20010516100752.B31096@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org No cookies for Kris. He let the secret out. On Wed, 16 May 2001, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 03:04:24PM +0200, Fenix xxx wrote: > > > > is unix world dying ??? > > Yes. Shit..I mean "No". > > Please forget I said anything. > > Kris > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 11:14:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAC637B42C for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 11:14:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22724; Wed, 16 May 2001 12:09:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010516115802.0533d100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:02:11 -0600 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: Alex Zepeda , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010516123443.B49269@lpt.ens.fr> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:34 AM 5/16/2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >http://www.opera.com/linux/faq.html > >They do support NetBSD 1.5, No, they do not. They claim that their software has been TRIED on a BETA of NetBSD 1.5, using Linux emulation. They offer no support and no native compile. >and are actively working on supporting the >other BSD's soon. This is not what the page says nor what their people say. They have told me, quite honestly, not to expect a supported native version for ANY of the BSDs. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 11:17: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DA7B37B422 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 11:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22749; Wed, 16 May 2001 12:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010516120239.0533f980@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:04:55 -0600 To: "Joseph A. Mallett" , Rahul Siddharthan From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: Alex Zepeda , In-Reply-To: References: <20010516123443.B49269@lpt.ens.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:32 AM 5/16/2001, Joseph A. Mallett wrote: >I love how these are versions of linux they're porting to: >SGI IRIX 6.5 or better 32 bit >Sun Solaris for x86 and Sparc >FreeBSD 3.4 x86 >OpenBSD 2.6 x86 >SCO UnixWare 7.1 >SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 >NetBSD 1.4 When someone calls Solaris or FreeBSD a Linux distribution, you KNOW that he or she does not have a clue. (This seems to be a gaffe most often made by marketroids at trade shows, but I've seen software company execs do it.) --Brett "FreeBSD.... Whose Linux distribution is that?" -- Borland representative at LinuxWorld Expo 2000 in New York City -- in a booth directly across from the Walnut Creek/BSDi booth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 16:30:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.inka.de (quechua.inka.de [212.227.14.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4146837B423 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 16:30:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from daemon@mips.inka.de) Received: from kemoauc.mips.inka.de (uucp@) by mail.inka.de with local-bsmtp id 150Aka-00080n-00; Thu, 17 May 2001 01:30:40 +0200 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by kemoauc.mips.inka.de (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f4GNR6a47359 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 May 2001 01:27:06 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from daemon) From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:27:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <9dv2c8$1dq1$1@kemoauc.mips.inka.de> References: <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <20010516123443.B49269@lpt.ens.fr> Originator: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > http://www.opera.com/linux/faq.html > > They do support NetBSD 1.5, Er, no, they don't say that. And they don't offer an NetBSD executable. They have _tested_ their Linux executable on NetBSD/i386, presumably under emulation. FWIW, OpenBSD now has Opera (using the Linux/i386 binary under emulation) in its ports collection as well. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed May 16 23:40:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from prinz.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (prinz.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De [141.44.21.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421A637B509 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 23:40:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jesse@mail.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De) Received: from knecht.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (jesse@knecht [141.44.21.3]) by prinz.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21520 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 08:40:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from jesse@localhost) by knecht.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id IAA20947; Thu, 17 May 2001 08:40:26 +0200 (MEST) X-Authentication-Warning: knecht.cs.uni-magdeburg.de: jesse set sender to jesse@cs.uni-magdeburg.de using -f To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010516115802.0533d100@localhost> From: Roland Jesse In-Reply-To: Brett Glass's message of "Wed, 16 May 2001 12:02:11 -0600" Date: 17 May 2001 08:40:26 +0200 Message-ID: <0vg0e4fpgl.fsf@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> Lines: 24 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass writes: > At 04:34 AM 5/16/2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > >and are actively working on supporting the > >other BSD's soon. > > This is not what the page says To quote the page: "We've attempted to start releasing a FreeBSD version as of this release. We have managed to compile it, but we have some crashes to figure out." That the Linux version of the current Opera release runs in emulation is IMHO nice to see for those of use using it. Those of us who don't (i.e. for religious reasons) are of course free to dislike it. ;) Roland P.S. Brett, not that I cannot live with it but with the FQDN you use in your Message-Id it is not guaranteed to be as unique as it probably should be. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 17 14:59: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846A737B422 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:59:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07734; Thu, 17 May 2001 15:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:11:19 -0600 To: Roland Jesse , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <0vg0e4fpgl.fsf@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010516115802.0533d100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:40 AM 5/17/2001, Roland Jesse wrote: >That the Linux version of the current Opera release runs in emulation >is IMHO nice to see for those of use using it. Those of us who don't >(i.e. for religious reasons) are of course free to dislike it. ;) It means no support for the platform or its users! NO software company supports its product running under an emulation. Do we really want no support (even if we pay)? Especially for a closed source product that we cannot fix ourselves? >P.S. Brett, not that I cannot live with it but with the FQDN you use > in your Message-Id it is not guaranteed to be as unique as it > probably should be. That's interesting.... I'd never noticed it. It's due to the fact that I am using SSH to tunnel into an SMTP server that does not allow relaying. As far as the machine can tell, the message is from "localhost" due to the port redirection. I will have to check to see if there's a Sendmail option which will change "localhost" to the FQDN of the machine. Anyone know of one off the top of his/her head? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 17 18:37:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6EB337B423 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:37:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 9E0F4755D; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7801D89; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:38:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 17 May 2001, Brett Glass wrote: :I will have to check to see if there's a Sendmail option which :will change "localhost" to the FQDN of the machine. Anyone know :of one off the top of his/her head? Dmsub.domain.tld This is up through sendmail 8.something. I don't know if it's still that way as postfix is my MTA of choice currently. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 17 18:54: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32A8437B423 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10295; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:53:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517193205.04752390@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:46:32 -0600 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:38 PM 5/17/2001, Jamie Bowden wrote: >Dmsub.domain.tld This might do more than I want. Do you think it'd work if I did MASQUERADE_AS(FQDN)dnl MASQUERADE_DOMAIN(localhost)dnl ? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 17 19:47:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (impatience.valueclick.com [216.246.96.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B11C37B422 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:47:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ask@valueclick.com) Received: (qmail 22874 invoked by uid 500); 18 May 2001 02:47:37 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 18 May 2001 02:47:37 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:47:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: Brett Glass Cc: Kris Kennaway , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 15 May 2001, Brett Glass wrote: [...] > emulator for Linux, they've guaranteed that Linux development > will come first and BSD development last. This is just one more > case where it's happened. geez, this is my first 5 minutes of reading chat@ in many many months. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like I missed much. What do you know about how Opera makes money? Maybe getting money from IBM (and getting a relationship with them) is worth more than a few FreeBSD users sending them $30. Even if it's a few EVERY YEAR. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu May 17 21:26:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost-1.inspire.net.nz [203.79.88.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F6BD37B422 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 21:26:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 49316 invoked from network); 18 May 2001 04:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.1.199) by outpost-4.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 18 May 2001 04:25:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3B04A441.9F127884@outpost.co.nz> Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:25:37 +1200 From: Craig Harding Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515112511.045e75b0@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010516115802.0533d100@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > I will have to check to see if there's a Sendmail option which > will change "localhost" to the FQDN of the machine. Anyone know > of one off the top of his/her head? bash# cd /usr/ports/mail/qmail bash# make install -- C. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 1:57:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freenix.no (atreides.freenix.no [217.68.117.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A10B37B424 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 01:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from morten@freenix.no) Received: (from morten@localhost) by freenix.no (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f4I8v0u69731; Fri, 18 May 2001 10:57:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from morten) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:57:00 +0200 From: "Morten A . Middelthon" To: Craig Harding Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Message-ID: <20010518105700.B69322@freenix.no> References: <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010516115802.0533d100@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> <3B04A441.9F127884@outpost.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B04A441.9F127884@outpost.co.nz>; from crh@outpost.co.nz on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:25:37PM +1200 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE X-Warning: So cunning you could brush your teeth with it. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:25:37PM +1200, Craig Harding wrote: > Brett Glass wrote: > > > I will have to check to see if there's a Sendmail option which > > will change "localhost" to the FQDN of the machine. Anyone know > > of one off the top of his/her head? > > bash# cd /usr/ports/mail/qmail > bash# make install cd /usr/ports/mail/qmail make deinstall clean distclean cd /usr/ports/mail/postfix make install replace :) -- Morten A. Middelthon Freenix Norge http://www.freenix.no/ -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, 'cuz, like, you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 3:34:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1052937B422 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 03:34:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f4IAYmR19460 ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:34:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id MAA54804 ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:35:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:35:15 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Brett Glass Cc: Roland Jesse , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Message-ID: <20010518123515.H48909@lpt.ens.fr> Mail-Followup-To: Brett Glass , Roland Jesse , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010516115802.0533d100@localhost> <0vg0e4fpgl.fsf@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Thu, May 17, 2001 at 03:11:19PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass said on May 17, 2001 at 15:11:19: > >That the Linux version of the current Opera release runs in emulation > >is IMHO nice to see for those of use using it. Those of us who don't > >(i.e. for religious reasons) are of course free to dislike it. ;) > > It means no support for the platform or its users! NO software > company supports its product running under an emulation. http://linux.corel.com/products/wpo2000_linux/ Runs under wine. There are other examples of software for linux being run under wine, a web search will dig it out. What difference does it make to the customer, if it works? And running linux binaries under FreeBSD is orders of magnitude better/faster/more stable than running windows binaries under Wine. > Do we > really want no support (even if we pay)? Especially for a closed > source product that we cannot fix ourselves? That's precisely the point. Why would we care about a closed source product that we can't fix ourselves? What difference does it make if it's a native FreeBSD binary? Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 4:16:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB1B37B424 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 04:16:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C1C08755D; Fri, 18 May 2001 04:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5CC1D89; Fri, 18 May 2001 04:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 04:17:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517193205.04752390@localhost> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 17 May 2001, Brett Glass wrote: :At 07:38 PM 5/17/2001, Jamie Bowden wrote: : :>Dmsub.domain.tld : :This might do more than I want. Do you think it'd work if I did : :MASQUERADE_AS(FQDN)dnl :MASQUERADE_DOMAIN(localhost)dnl I'd have to dig out my bat book. As I said, I use postfix currently. If you don't need to do more than SMTP, I highly recommend it. It is very easy to install and configure, and very fast (though I suspect speed is likely not an issue for you in the depths of Wyoming). Five minutes of your time, maybe ten. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 6:57:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (ns1.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B70737B422; Fri, 18 May 2001 06:57:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar) Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA99467; Fri, 18 May 2001 11:01:25 -0300 (ART) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.via-net-works.net.ar: fpscha set sender to fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar using -f Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:01:25 -0300 From: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. Any ideas? TIA! Fernando P. Schapachnik Planificación de red y tecnología VIA NET.WORKS ARGENTINA S.A. fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar Tel.: (54-11) 4323-3381 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 8:35:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD85437B422; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f4IFZ7O22038; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:35:07 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> References: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:34:51 +0200 To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:01 AM -0300 5/18/01, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. There are bits and pieces for some of these things that are available, but to the best of my knowledge there are still some key pieces missing, on top of the fact that no one has taken the time to put all the pieces together that are currently available. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 8:36:56 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from preatonibank.ee (preatonibank.ee [194.204.4.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F8037B422 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:36:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from priit@softshark.ee) Received: from priit.pp.ee (priit.pp.ee [192.168.111.109]) by preatonibank.ee (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26052; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:35:58 +0200 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:31:57 +0200 (EET) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Priit_J=E4rv?= X-Sender: priit@priit.pp.ee To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [advocacy removed from CC: list] On Fri, 18 May 2001, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. From personal experience, Lotus Domino is quite reliable, meaning that it gets the job done and doesn't crash too often. However, it doesn't support FreeBSD natively (runs on Solaris and Linux), consumes *huge* amount of resources, and it implements everything in it's own weird way making it difficult to understand and configure. priit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 8:44:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu (1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu [128.147.18.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA41F37B446; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from personrp@ccbh.com) Received: by 1upmc-msximc2.isdip.upmc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 18 May 2001 11:44:44 -0400 Message-ID: <46AEB8C1B628D511969200508B6FE42A66832F@1upmc-msx6.isdip.upmc.edu> From: "Person, Roderick" To: 'Brad Knowles' , "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Exchange substitute Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:45:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0DFB1.9920E850" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0DFB1.9920E850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I believe that evolution is attempting to do all this i tried it a few months ago. It's gnome app so you at least need the gnome base and libs installed, this is if my memory is still good. Roderick P. Person Programmer II personrp@ccbh.com http://www.ccbh.com "It's like trying to get a monkey to do something a monkey can't do." -self > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad.knowles@skynet.be] > Sent: May 18, 2001 11:35 AM > To: Fernando P . Schapachnik; freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; > advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Exchange substitute > > > At 11:01 AM -0300 5/18/01, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > > > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. > > There are bits and pieces for some of these things that are > available, but to the best of my knowledge there are still some key > pieces missing, on top of the fact that no one has taken the time to > put all the pieces together that are currently available. > > -- > Brad Knowles, > > /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum > */ > /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil > Carmody */ > /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter > Belgers */ > /* > */ > /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt > >clear.vob */ > /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar > 5-byte key */ > > dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0DFB1.9920E850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Exchange substitute

I believe that evolution is attempting to do all this = i tried it a few months ago. It's gnome app so you at least need the = gnome base and libs installed, this is if my memory is still = good.

Roderick P. Person
Programmer II
personrp@ccbh.com
http://www.ccbh.com

"It's like trying to get a monkey to do = something a monkey can't do."
        -self




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad.knowles@skynet.be= ]
> Sent: May 18, 2001 11:35 AM
> To: Fernando P . Schapachnik; = freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG;
> advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: Exchange substitute
>
>
> At 11:01 AM -0300 5/18/01, Fernando P . = Schapachnik wrote:
>
> >     Sorry if these are not = the appropiate fora.
> >
> >     I need to find a = reliable, unix-based MS Exchange
> >  substitute. I mean, not only = POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but
> >  embeded calendar, agenda, shared = address book, etc.
>
>       There are bits = and pieces for some of these things that are
> available, but to the best of my knowledge = there are still some key
> pieces missing, on top of the fact that no one = has taken the time to
> put all the pieces together that are currently = available.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, = <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
>
> /*        = efdtt.c  Author:  Charles M. Hannum
> = <root@ihack.net>        &n= bsp; */
> /*       = Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil
> = Carmody         */
> /*     Prime as DNS cname = chain by Roy Arends and Walter
> = Belgers        */
> = /*           &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;            =
>          = ; */
> /*     Usage is:  cat = title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt
> >clear.vob      = ;  */
> /*   where title-key =3D "153 2 = 8 105 225" or other similar
> 5-byte key    */
>
> dig decss.friet.org|perl = -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}'
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to = majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" = in the body of the message
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0DFB1.9920E850-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 10: 0: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D076537B42C for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:59:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #4) id 150nbY-000EHL-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:59:56 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f4IGxu394260 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:59:56 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:59:55 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: IIS vs Apache Message-ID: <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just saw a quote: But as Giga analyst Stacey Quandt noted, even the fastest, cheapest and best browser may not win. "Sometimes, the best technologies don't win out. Microsoft's IIS (Internet Information Server) is faster than Apache, but Apache has the greatest market share, for example." Are there any stats to back this up, that anyone knows of? Jonathon -- When I die, I want to go in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming, like the passengers in his car. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 11:43:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (ns1.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321C037B424; Fri, 18 May 2001 11:43:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar) Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11702; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:47:26 -0300 (ART) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.via-net-works.net.ar: fpscha set sender to fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar using -f Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:47:26 -0300 From: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" To: Brad Knowles Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518154726.A7668@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> References: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from brad.knowles@skynet.be on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 05:34:51PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ok, thanks everybody for the pointers... It seems that there is not still such a tool. Regards! En un mensaje anterior, Brad Knowles escribió: > At 11:01 AM -0300 5/18/01, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > > > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. > > There are bits and pieces for some of these things that are > available, but to the best of my knowledge there are still some key > pieces missing, on top of the fact that no one has taken the time to > put all the pieces together that are currently available. Fernando P. Schapachnik Planificación de red y tecnología VIA NET.WORKS ARGENTINA S.A. fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar Tel.: (54-11) 4323-3381 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 11:51:43 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3707637B43F; Fri, 18 May 2001 11:51:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19118; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518124224.047c7970@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:44:07 -0600 To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Qualcomm used to sell (and probably still sells) add-ons for Eudora that provide functions such as shared calendars and address book. You may want to look on their site to see if these add-ons still exist. Alas, Microsoft has gutted the PIM market via dumping and bundling. --Brett At 08:01 AM 5/18/2001, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: >Hi! > > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange >substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but >embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. > > Any ideas? TIA! > > >Fernando P. Schapachnik >Planificación de red y tecnología >VIA NET.WORKS ARGENTINA S.A. >fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar >Tel.: (54-11) 4323-3381 > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:10:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECCAE37B424 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19291; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:01:56 -0600 To: j mckitrick , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: IIS vs Apache In-Reply-To: <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:59 AM 5/18/2001, j mckitrick wrote: > "Sometimes, the best technologies don't win out. Microsoft's IIS >(Internet Information Server) is faster > than Apache, but Apache has the greatest market share, for example." > >Are there any stats to back this up, that anyone knows of? Yes. See http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-023.asp which conclusively proves that you can break into an IIS server MUCH faster than you can break into an Apache server. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:17:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0DDB37B43C; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:17:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr05.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07764; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:15:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr05.primenet.com(206.165.6.205) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAJkaG3o; Fri May 18 12:15:29 2001 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA01383; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:24:19 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200105181924.MAA01383@usr05.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Exchange substitute To: fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar (Fernando P . Schapachnik) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 19:24:14 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> from "Fernando P . Schapachnik" at May 18, 2001 11:01:25 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. > > Any ideas? TIA! Sendmail + Cyrus IMAP from ports will do the job. Are you using any esorteric features of Excahnge that we should know about? You may also need to add OpenLDAP 2.0 or other software, if you are. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:18:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-2.enteract.com (smtp-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B0B537B42C for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:18:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09226550; Fri, 18 May 2001 14:17:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:17:20 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-X-Sender: To: j mckitrick Cc: Subject: Re: IIS vs Apache In-Reply-To: <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, j mckitrick wrote: : :I just saw a quote: : : But as Giga analyst Stacey Quandt noted, even the fastest, cheapest and :best browser may not win. :Are there any stats to back this up, that anyone knows of? : Microsoft sent giga a bigger check than apache? -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:19: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from alive.znep.com (sense-sea-MegaSub-1-500.oz.net [216.39.145.246]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14DB37B43E for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Received: from localhost (marcs@localhost) by alive.znep.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA56686 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from marcs@znep.com) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:18:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Slemko To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IIS vs Apache In-Reply-To: <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, j mckitrick wrote: > > I just saw a quote: > > But as Giga analyst Stacey Quandt noted, even the fastest, cheapest and > best browser may not win. > > "Sometimes, the best technologies don't win out. Microsoft's IIS > (Internet Information Server) is faster > than Apache, but Apache has the greatest market share, for example." > > Are there any stats to back this up, that anyone knows of? Sure, lots. Almost any benchmark will show that IIS is a bunch faster at serving static content under benchmark situations than Apache. For dynamic content, your webserver itself (as opposed to whatever is actually generating the pages) is almost never going to be the limiting factor. But I have no idea what that has to do with being the "best technology". As long as it is "fast enough", then any other performance benefits under benchmarking situations are irrelevant. The performance differences do not exhibit significantly different latencies under "normal" loads, but only impact scaling at higher loads. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:20:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2720D37B43E for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:20:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from box027.labs.pitt.edu ("port 4843"@[130.49.141.38]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K3PPM7K320012Q1Y@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:20:38 EDT Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:20:35 -0400 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-reply-to: <20010518154726.A7668@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Originator-info: login-id=pfg1; server=imap.pitt.edu To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <2356757210.990199235@box027.labs.pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.0.3 (Win32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --On Friday, May 18, 2001 3:47 PM -0300 "Fernando P . Schapachnik" wrote:r > > Ok, thanks everybody for the pointers... It seems that there is not > still such a tool. > > Regards! > I don't see much relationship between a BBS and a groupware type of tool, but anyway, quoting citadel.org (somewhere): During the year 1998 there were a bunch of developers who experienced false starts while attempting to create the free software equivalent of Novell Groupwise, Lotus Notes, or Microsoft Exchange. They failed because they were all talk and no code. Citadel, on the other hand, has over ten years worth of both developer experience and running code on which to base a groupware platform ... and that's exactly what we're doing. We're going to add support for all manner of Internet collaboration standards (IMAP, vCard, iCalendar, LDAP, etc.) and make the system as flexible as possible for use in non-BBS environments. At the same time, we're still moving forward in our primary goal of becoming the best and most powerful software package for running online communities. Read more here, or see how far we've come already. http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/status.html cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:26:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (ns1.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A99737B42C; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:26:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar) Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA40810; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:30:13 -0300 (ART) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.via-net-works.net.ar: fpscha set sender to fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar using -f Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:30:13 -0300 From: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518163013.D98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> References: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> <200105181924.MAA01383@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200105181924.MAA01383@usr05.primenet.com>; from tlambert@primenet.com on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 07:24:14PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org En un mensaje anterior, Terry Lambert escribió: > > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. > > > > Any ideas? TIA! > > Sendmail + Cyrus IMAP from ports will do the job. > > Are you using any esorteric features of Excahnge that we > should know about? You may also need to add OpenLDAP 2.0 > or other software, if you are. Calendar which is the only feature that doesn't seem to be easy to find on Open Source environments. Thanks and regards. Fernando P. Schapachnik Planificación de red y tecnología VIA NET.WORKS ARGENTINA S.A. fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar Tel.: (54-11) 4323-3381 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:29:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCB037B43C for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:29:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19561; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518131458.059ab730@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:21:59 -0600 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517193205.04752390@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:17 AM 5/18/2001, Jamie Bowden wrote: >As I said, I use postfix currently. If >you don't need to do more than SMTP, I highly recommend it. We would need to develop experience with it. We ABSOLUTELY CANNOT deploy unfamiliar server software on a mission-critical server without having worked with it on other machines first. >It is very >easy to install and configure, and very fast (though I suspect speed is >likely not an issue for you in the depths of Wyoming). What assumptions are you making about Wyoming that would lead you to believe that this is the case? Just for your information, we are not in "depths" of any kind. Laramie is the home of the University of Wyoming, with 9,000+ undergraduates. It is also two hours from Denver. > Five minutes of your time, maybe ten. Plus hours of time redoing our spam filters, malware filters, mail aliases, virtual host and user tables, list servers.... Not such a small task. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:32: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7E837B422 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:31:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19500; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130331.047c6d20@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:14:35 -0600 To: Rahul Siddharthan From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: Roland Jesse , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010518123515.H48909@lpt.ens.fr> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> <20010515121629.A10144@xor.obsecurity.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515131451.00b13950@localhost> <20010515140528.A11778@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515141341.B714@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010515142152.A12190@xor.obsecurity.org> <20010515142738.A53178@zippy.mybox.zip> <4.3.2.7.2.20010515153824.045e3e70@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010516115802.0533d100@localhost> <0vg0e4fpgl.fsf@cs.uni-magdeburg.de> <4.3.2.7.2.20010517150555.04774c80@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:35 AM 5/18/2001, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >> It means no support for the platform or its users! NO software >> company supports its product running under an emulation. > >http://linux.corel.com/products/wpo2000_linux/ >Runs under wine. Not quite. They have recompiled the product into a special version for Linux that uses WINE as its graphics library. The version of WINE they use is their own unique one, not the standard distribution. See http://linux.corel.com/support/wine_faq.htm where they say: >Q. Are you using the same versions of Corel applications that you ship for >Windows? >A. The applications that we currently ship are not identical to >the Windows versions. They have been "tuned" for Linux, meaning that >certain Windows-specific features not implemented in Wine have been >removed or modified, and some Linux-specific features have been added. >However, the applications are compiled from the same source code base as >the Windows versions. > >Q. Can I run any Windows applications under Wine? >A. We at Corel have only >tested our own products and have verified that they work properly under >our version of Wine. Other Windows applications may run properly, but they >are untested by Corel. > >Q. Is Corel using the public version of Wine? >A. We are using our own >version of Wine that is based on the public Wine release, but that also >includes a number of changes.... They will NOT support versions of WINE that they do not produce, nor will they support the use of their product on FreeBSD. >That's precisely the point. Why would we care about a closed source >product that we can't fix ourselves? What difference does it make if >it's a native FreeBSD binary? There is nothing wrong with closed source products. But it IS important to have support for them. Opera should not be discouraged from porting to FreeBSD because they are closed source; it's only fair that they should be able to make a living from their work! But they should not expect users to pay for a product and then get no support. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:33: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0CF37B424 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from box027.labs.pitt.edu ("port 4852"@[130.49.141.38]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K3PQ2C4UQW012JQ8@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:32:51 EDT Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:32:48 -0400 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Re: IIS vs Apache In-reply-to: <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Originator-info: login-id=pfg1; server=imap.pitt.edu To: j mckitrick , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <2357490475.990199968@box027.labs.pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.0.3 (Win32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --On Friday, May 18, 2001 5:59 PM +0100 j mckitrick wrote:r > > I just saw a quote: > > But as Giga analyst Stacey Quandt noted, even the fastest, cheapest > and best browser may not win. > > "Sometimes, the best technologies don't win out. Microsoft's IIS > (Internet Information Server) is faster > than Apache, but Apache has the greatest market share, for example." > > Are there any stats to back this up, that anyone knows of? > The statement is very confusing, are they comparing webservers or OS+webservers?? Is"best technology" here, Windows NT? If we are comparing Apache on Windows NT, surely IIS does better. On FreeBSD or Linux IIS doesn't perfom at all...so well...I guess there's no doubt what technology to compare there :). Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:33:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from q.closedsrc.org (ip233.gte15.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.244.233]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0988B37B443; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:33:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lplist@closedsrc.org) Received: by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 166E455407; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by q.closedsrc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0667651610; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Linh Pham To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: Terry Lambert , , Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <20010518163013.D98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 2001-05-18, Fernando P . Schapachnik scribbled: # Calendar which is the only feature that doesn't seem to be easy to # find on Open Source environments. There are web-based calendar tools available... if not in Ports or FreshPorts [http://www.freshports.org], then check out FreshMeat at http://freshmeat.net -- Linh Pham [lplist@closedsrc.org] // 404b - Brain not found To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:33:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [63.145.197.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F2F37B43E; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:33:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 150pzf-00071C-00; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:32:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:32:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , please don't continue on Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <200105181924.MAA01383@usr05.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. advocacy is probably not appropriate; please consider continuing this discussion just on chat. > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. On Fri, 18 May 2001, Terry Lambert wrote: > Sendmail + Cyrus IMAP from ports will do the job. This will do the shared/group calendaring? > Are you using any esorteric features of Excahnge that we > should know about? You may also need to add OpenLDAP 2.0 > or other software, if you are. I also am curious about this. On Tuesday, I gave a presentation about BSD, open source, and Linux; and some of the audience asked me about alternatives for MS Exchange/Outlook -- in particular they were interested in providing shared calendars. (I guess this is called "groupware".) I have only heard about evolution, so it was my only answer. But then later, I remembered reading about HP's OpenMail. It is available for Linux -- maybe it runs under FreeBSD. My Agilent-working father believes that OpenMail is mostly compatible with MS Exchange's features (and since he is a former-HP employee, he believes it is a lot better). But, I believe that OpenMail isn't being supported anymore, and in the next few years it will be phased out. As for evolution, I don't know much about it. I hear that it uses some iCalendar protocol and will work with other calendaring systems. Fernando, the "unix-based MS Exchange substitute" may really involve two parts: the server and the clients that work with it. You may want to see if the clients you are using support iCalendar or Open Mail. Jeremy C. Reed http://www.reedmedia.net/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:33:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from casimir.physics.purdue.edu (casimir.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1376937B43F; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:33:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: by casimir.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2D84F18A47; Fri, 18 May 2001 14:33:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:33:04 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518143303.A26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews Mail-Followup-To: Will Andrews , "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> <200105181924.MAA01383@usr05.primenet.com> <20010518163013.D98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010518163013.D98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar>; from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:30:13PM -0300 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.18 sparc64 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:30:13PM -0300, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > Calendar which is the only feature that doesn't seem to be easy to > find on Open Source environments. Erm, nobody here's ever heard of phpGroupWare? http://www.phpgroupware.org/apps/ ..specifically mentions calendar tools among others. It looks useful, but I've never used it. So YMMV. -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:34: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from proxy.tfcc.com (tfcci.com [204.210.226.249]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975CE37B422; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cfuhrman@tfcci.com) Received: (from mail@localhost) by proxy.tfcc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20197; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:34:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: proxy.tfcc.com: mail set sender to using -f Received: from icestorm.tfcc.com(192.168.4.115) by proxy.tfcc.com via smap (V2.1/2.1a) id xma020164; Fri, 18 May 01 15:33:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:33:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Fuhrman X-X-Sender: To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: , Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Message-ID: Organization: 21st Century Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At one point, I was evaluating HP Openmail for our company. You can most likely get the Linux version to run under emulation. You may wish to check with HP (or local reseller) to see the current status of Openmail. I'm not sure if there is any more development on it beyond bug fixes. Cheers! On Fri, 18 May 2001, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > Hi! > > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. > > Any ideas? TIA! - -- Chris Fuhrman | Twenty First Century Communications cfuhrman@tfcci.com | Software Engineer (W) 614-442-1215 x271 | (F) 614-442-5662 | PGP/GPG Public Key Available on Request -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGPEnvelope - http://pgpenvelope.sourceforge.net iD8DBQE7BXkhtZTBgtmnGNERAplWAJ9PuDx5RWoQckPT1/GwZZusi0OgzgCdHqWz gOv0Mv91rvtwJed8xiXq98k= =xETZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:36:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59FF37B42C for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:36:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from box027.labs.pitt.edu ("port 4860"@[130.49.141.38]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K3PQ75U1A4012OH4@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:36:44 EDT Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:36:41 -0400 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-reply-to: <2356757210.990199235@box027.labs.pitt.edu> Originator-info: login-id=pfg1; server=imap.pitt.edu To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <2357723870.990200201@box027.labs.pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.0.3 (Win32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --On Friday, May 18, 2001 3:20 PM -0400 "Pedro F. Giffuni" wrote:r > > --On Friday, May 18, 2001 3:47 PM -0300 "Fernando P . Schapachnik" > wrote:r > >> >> Ok, thanks everybody for the pointers... It seems that there is not >> still such a tool. >> > already. http://uncensored.citadel.org/citadel/status.html Oh..BTW, I agree such tool doesn't exist! cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:44:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [64.0.106.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757C437B42C; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:44:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scanner@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (scanner@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA88233; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:43:21 -0400 (EDT) From: To: Will Andrews Cc: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <20010518143303.A26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, Will Andrews wrote: > Erm, nobody here's ever heard of phpGroupWare? > > http://www.phpgroupware.org/apps/ > > ..specifically mentions calendar tools among others. It looks useful, > but I've never used it. So YMMV. It will GREATLY vary. You cant even really compare outlook and phpgroupware. There not even close. ============================================================================= -Chris Watson (316) 326-3862 | FreeBSD Consultant, FreeBSD Geek Work: scanner@jurai.net | Open Systems Inc., Wellington, Kansas Home: scanner@deceptively.shady.org | http://open-systems.net ============================================================================= WINDOWS: "Where do you want to go today?" LINUX: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" BSD: "Are you guys coming or what?" ============================================================================= irc.openprojects.net #FreeBSD -Join the revolution! ICQ: 20016186 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:47:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from casimir.physics.purdue.edu (casimir.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3347B37B422; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:47:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: by casimir.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2B03518A47; Fri, 18 May 2001 14:46:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:46:49 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: scanner@jurai.net Cc: Will Andrews , "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518144648.C26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews Mail-Followup-To: Will Andrews , scanner@jurai.net, "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010518143303.A26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: ; from scanner@jurai.net on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:43:21PM -0400 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.18 sparc64 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:43:21PM -0400, scanner@jurai.net wrote: > It will GREATLY vary. You cant even really compare outlook and > phpgroupware. There not even close. It looks like they've got a very modular API though, and if the webpage's any indication, it's a pretty slick interface. But according to the "progress" page, there's still a lot to be done, as you say. I ought to try it out anyway. It would probably help me, considering how disorganized I currently am (*looks at the 750 or so files/directories in $HOME*). :-) -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:53:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (ns1.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ACE237B424; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:53:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar) Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA57853; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:55:47 -0300 (ART) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.via-net-works.net.ar: fpscha set sender to fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar using -f Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:55:47 -0300 From: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" To: scanner@jurai.net Cc: Will Andrews , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518165547.E98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> References: <20010518143303.A26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from scanner@jurai.net on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:43:21PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org En un mensaje anterior, scanner@jurai.net escribió: > On Fri, 18 May 2001, Will Andrews wrote: > > > Erm, nobody here's ever heard of phpGroupWare? > > > > http://www.phpgroupware.org/apps/ > > > > ..specifically mentions calendar tools among others. It looks useful, > > but I've never used it. So YMMV. > > It will GREATLY vary. You cant even really compare outlook and > phpgroupware. There not even close. I agree. Web based solutions are out of the question, as they don't seem to be a very good replacement for a "real" application like Outlook. To summarize some of the previous proposals: -Citadel seems to be a BBS soft. -OpenMail doesn't seem to be supported any more. -Evolution is a client. They say they might made a server sometime, maybe. -The Qualcomm solution is not Unix based and is email only. -Sendmail.com is only email. So we are still on the hunt... Fernando P. Schapachnik Planificación de red y tecnología VIA NET.WORKS ARGENTINA S.A. fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar Tel.: (54-11) 4323-3381 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:55:26 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (ns1.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F032337B42C for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:55:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar) Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA60611; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:59:16 -0300 (ART) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.via-net-works.net.ar: fpscha set sender to fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar using -f Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:59:16 -0300 From: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" To: "Jeremy C. Reed" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518165916.F98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> References: <200105181924.MAA01383@usr05.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from reed@reedmedia.net on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 12:32:59PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org En un mensaje anterior, Jeremy C. Reed escribió: [...] > Fernando, the "unix-based MS Exchange substitute" may really involve two > parts: the server and the clients that work with it. You may want to see > if the clients you are using support iCalendar or Open Mail. Server is my concern. Once I settle this, I guess client will be easier. On the other points you raise, please me my other email which tries to summarize what I found so far (and where I forgot to trimm -advocacy). Regards. Fernando P. Schapachnik Planificación de red y tecnología VIA NET.WORKS ARGENTINA S.A. fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar Tel.: (54-11) 4323-3381 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 12:57:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from casimir.physics.purdue.edu (casimir.physics.purdue.edu [128.210.146.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C678D37B42C; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:57:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from will@physics.purdue.edu) Received: by casimir.physics.purdue.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A337E18A47; Fri, 18 May 2001 14:56:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:56:50 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: scanner@jurai.net, Will Andrews , Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518145650.E26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Reply-To: Will Andrews Mail-Followup-To: Will Andrews , "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , scanner@jurai.net, Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010518143303.A26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010518165547.E98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <20010518165547.E98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar>; from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:55:47PM -0300 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.18 sparc64 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:55:47PM -0300, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > I agree. Web based solutions are out of the question, as they don't > seem to be a very good replacement for a "real" application like > Outlook. Erm, perhaps it's not immediately obvious to me, but... why? -- wca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 13: 2:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-2.enteract.com (smtp-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FE737B42C; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dscheidt@tumbolia.com) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by smtp-2.enteract.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E96661C; Fri, 18 May 2001 15:02:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 15:02:16 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt X-X-Sender: To: Will Andrews Cc: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" , , Terry Lambert , , Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <20010518145650.E26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, Will Andrews wrote: :On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:55:47PM -0300, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: :> I agree. Web based solutions are out of the question, as they don't :> seem to be a very good replacement for a "real" application like :> Outlook. : :Erm, perhaps it's not immediately obvious to me, but... why? : The calandering stuff in Outlook is actually pretty nice. It's a shame there aren't better choices, though. Outlook is horrible MUA, and Excahnge servers are resource pigs. And of course, it's all windows only. : -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 13: 4:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (ns1.via-net-works.net.ar [200.10.100.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF2A37B424 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:04:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar) Received: (from fpscha@localhost) by ns1.via-net-works.net.ar (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA66281; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:07:23 -0300 (ART) X-Authentication-Warning: ns1.via-net-works.net.ar: fpscha set sender to fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar using -f Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:07:23 -0300 From: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" To: Will Andrews , scanner@jurai.net, Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518170723.H98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> References: <20010518143303.A26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> <20010518165547.E98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> <20010518145650.E26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010518145650.E26877@casimir.physics.purdue.edu>; from will@physics.purdue.edu on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:56:50PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org En un mensaje anterior, Will Andrews escribió: > On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:55:47PM -0300, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > > I agree. Web based solutions are out of the question, as they don't > > seem to be a very good replacement for a "real" application like > > Outlook. > > Erm, perhaps it's not immediately obvious to me, but... why? Because many users including my self find it very unconfortable to use web applications. Maybe it has to do with nested popup menues (I mean the lack of it). I once read that users liked it that much because it allows the to have a sight of what they were doing. The same effect was gained by the introduction of the blackboard to the schools, allowing students to "keep an eye on the background" as the teacher introduces new subjects. By "real", I also mean "faster than web-based ones". Regards. Fernando P. Schapachnik Planificación de red y tecnología VIA NET.WORKS ARGENTINA S.A. fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar Tel.: (54-11) 4323-3381 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 13:21:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DEC537B424; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:21:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramidi@otenet.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b069.otenet.gr [195.167.121.197]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4IKKxO28198; Fri, 18 May 2001 23:20:59 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IKEho06525; Fri, 18 May 2001 23:14:43 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramidi@otenet.gr) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 23:14:43 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: Terry Lambert , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010518231443.A6470@hades.hell.gr> References: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> <200105181924.MAA01383@usr05.primenet.com> <20010518163013.D98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010518163013.D98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar>; from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:30:13PM -0300 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:30:13PM -0300, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > En un mensaje anterior, Terry Lambert escribio: > > > Sorry if these are not the appropiate fora. > > > > > > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > > > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > > > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. > > > > > > Any ideas? TIA! > > > > Sendmail + Cyrus IMAP from ports will do the job. > > > > Are you using any esorteric features of Excahnge that we > > should know about? You may also need to add OpenLDAP 2.0 > > or other software, if you are. > > Calendar which is the only feature that doesn't seem to be easy to > find on Open Source environments. Which uses standard MIME attachments to transfer calendar related information between your Outlook clients. Shared folders, shared calendars, shared contact lists, etc., are implemented in Outlook and not in Exchange. Using one qmail and one sendmail server, I tested 'sharing' a calendar from an Outlook client, and looked at the resulting mail messages with Mutt. The Outlook clients will send calendar information to each other using messages that contain a single MIME attachment of MIME-type application/ms-tnef. As long as your SMTP Server does not mess with the message in any way, the sharing works like a charm. Of course, working with binary-only attachments like those having a MIME-type of application/ms-tnef, can be a real pain when you prefer reading your email with Mutt. But this is another story... --giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 16:12: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482EB37B422 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.161]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0GDK00DIR0D2XH@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4EF76181C; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 16:09:59 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-reply-to: <46AEB8C1B628D511969200508B6FE42A66832F@1upmc-msx6.isdip.upmc.edu>; from personrp@ccbh.com on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:45:43AM -0400 To: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010518160959.A29298@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <46AEB8C1B628D511969200508B6FE42A66832F@1upmc-msx6.isdip.upmc.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:45:43AM -0400, Person, Roderick wrote: > I believe that evolution is attempting to do all this i tried it a few > months ago. It's gnome app so you at least need the gnome base and libs > installed, this is if my memory is still good. And if you're KDE fan, Magellan which has been dropped was picked up by the Kompany in the form of Aethera. And I'm sure that there were one or two other Magellan derived products out there. OTOH Aethera is for sure not there yet, especially on FreeBSD, but "the Kompany" does intend to roll out some sort of groupware server as well. The Magellan code is downright scary, it makes that Gtk+ mess look sane. But it could be a good start. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 16:13: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB82D37B43C; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:12:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IN9FJ15524; Sat, 19 May 2001 00:09:15 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 00:09:15 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Exchange substitute Message-ID: <20010519000915.A15497@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="T4sUOijqQbZv57TR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010518110125.A91043@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar>; from fschapachnik@vianetworks.com.ar on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:01:25AM -0300 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:01:25AM -0300, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > I need to find a reliable, unix-based MS Exchange > substitute. I mean, not only POP/SMTP/IMAP which are easy, but > embeded calendar, agenda, shared address book, etc. Go to www.steltor.com, and look at their products, which run on Unix (inc. Linux, but not BSD) and claim to provide the necessary functionality. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjsFq5oACgkQk6gHZCw343WbdwCgjZohEFkl6j+cp9wTR+zzdTsR TDkAoJKYj8yYj++aFLqA34CbTeLzN9wT =Qxou -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --T4sUOijqQbZv57TR-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 16:23:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from beastie.saturn-tech.com (beastie.saturn-tech.com [207.229.19.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D3AA37B424 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:23:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) Received: from localhost (drussell@localhost) by beastie.saturn-tech.com (8.11.1/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4J9Op337778; Sat, 19 May 2001 03:24:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drussell@saturn-tech.com) X-Authentication-Warning: beastie.saturn-tech.com: drussell owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 03:24:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Doug Russell To: "Fernando P . Schapachnik" Cc: scanner@jurai.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Exchange substitute In-Reply-To: <20010518165547.E98779@ns1.via-net-works.net.ar> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, Fernando P . Schapachnik wrote: > To summarize some of the previous proposals: > > -Citadel seems to be a BBS soft. > -OpenMail doesn't seem to be supported any more. > -Evolution is a client. They say they might made a server sometime, > maybe. > -The Qualcomm solution is not Unix based and is email only. > -Sendmail.com is only email. > > So we are still on the hunt... Have you looked at the CorelCentral day planner & address book, etc? There is a version included with the Corel Office 2000 for Linux version, I believe. I don't have a copy yet, but if it is at all like the windows version, it may have everything you need, and in a nicer package than that MSware you speak of. Later...... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 20:51: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from moo.sysabend.org (moo.sysabend.org [63.86.88.201]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A145737B422 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 20:51:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ragnar@sysabend.org) Received: by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix, from userid 1004) id A3C1D755D; Fri, 18 May 2001 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by moo.sysabend.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E421D89; Fri, 18 May 2001 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 20:52:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518131458.059ab730@localhost> Message-ID: Approved: yep X-representing: Only myself. X-badge: We don't need no stinking badges. X-obligatory-profanity: Fuck X-moo: Moo. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, Brett Glass wrote: :At 05:17 AM 5/18/2001, Jamie Bowden wrote: : :>As I said, I use postfix currently. If :>you don't need to do more than SMTP, I highly recommend it. : :We would need to develop experience with it. We ABSOLUTELY :CANNOT deploy unfamiliar server software on a mission-critical :server without having worked with it on other machines first. So set up a test machine and spend some time. It really is very well documented and easy. The big drawback is that if you need to support anything but SMTP, you're pretty much stuck with sendmail. :>It is very :>easy to install and configure, and very fast (though I suspect speed is :>likely not an issue for you in the depths of Wyoming). : :What assumptions are you making about Wyoming that would lead you to :believe that this is the case? State population density (or lack thereof in this case). I don't see any indications that Wyoming is home to any major bandwidth either. :Just for your information, we are not in "depths" of any kind. Laramie is :the home of the University of Wyoming, with 9,000+ undergraduates. It is :also two hours from Denver. I'm not trying to pick a fight here Brett, but you're not exactly in an urban setting by any stretch of the imagination. Fairfax Co. Public Schools (where my wife currently teaches) have damn near 150,000 children in attendance. You're in the sticks. The size of Denver's airport aside, it's not exactly and urban mecca either. I'd rather live in your setting personally, but this urban hell I inhabit is where the jobs are. :> Five minutes of your time, maybe ten. :Plus hours of time redoing our spam filters, malware filters, mail :aliases, virtual host and user tables, list servers.... Not such a small :task. Hours? Computers were designed to do exactly the sort of data manipulation you're talking about in an automated fashion. The sed/awk bits to convert one format to another (on a test box of course) shouldn't take that long. Testing is where hours come in, but those hours were well spent if you will see a long term overall savings where your time is concerned. While I was by no means a top sendmail expert, I could and did regularly edit the cf file without bothering to grab the manual. I've never felt so good about dumping something that I spent so much time acquiring skill with. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 21:16: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F9637B42C for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 21:16:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24164; Fri, 18 May 2001 22:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518215908.0476ec80@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:08:47 -0600 To: Jamie Bowden From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518131458.059ab730@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:52 PM 5/18/2001, Jamie Bowden wrote: >:What assumptions are you making about Wyoming that would lead you to >:believe that this is the case? > >State population density (or lack thereof in this case). I don't see any >indications that Wyoming is home to any major bandwidth either. We are home to more bandwidth than practically any other state, because we are traversed by the I-25 and I-80 corridors plus the Union Pacific and Burlington Northern railroad lines. MOST of the coast-to-coast backbones go through Wyoming, and several nationwide providers have switching and regeneration centers here. The University of Wyoming, here in Laramie, is on Internet II and thus has massive amounts of bandwidth. Still more bandwidth comes through on large microwave links. Broadwing just fired up a huge fiber backbone that runs within a mile of where I'm sitting.... We're looking at tapping in. >I'm not trying to pick a fight here Brett, but you're not exactly in an >urban setting by any stretch of the imagination. An urban setting does not necessarily correlate with the availability of bandwidth. (Ask anyone in New York City who's tried to get DSL from Verizon!) >I'd rather live in your setting personally, but this urban hell I inhabit >is where the jobs are. Actually, Cyberspace is where the jobs are. That's where I work... the nice part is that I get to live here. >:Plus hours of time redoing our spam filters, malware filters, mail >:aliases, virtual host and user tables, list servers.... Not such a small >:task. > >Hours? Computers were designed to do exactly the sort of data >manipulation you're talking about in an automated fashion. The sed/awk >bits to convert one format to another (on a test box of course) shouldn't >take that long. Testing is where hours come in, but those hours were well >spent if you will see a long term overall savings where your time is >concerned. We do a lot of special things. We'd need to check to be sure that the scripts worked as intended. >While I was by no means a top sendmail expert, I could and did regularly >edit the cf file without bothering to grab the manual. I've never felt so >good about dumping something that I spent so much time acquiring skill >with. I've edited the cf file, but don't pretend to know every piece of magic it contains. I do as much as I can with m4 macros, which are themselves tricky but still more manageable. Again, I'd have to learn about postfix or qmail before turning them loose on key servers. Much of the spam I receive seems to have been relayed by misconfigured qmail servers (though old versions of Exchange and Lotus Notes also rank high on the list). --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 18 22: 9:16 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C80737B422 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 22:09:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.108]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0GDK00ML2GZ0BW@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 May 2001 22:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4B0CE1823; Fri, 18 May 2001 22:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:09:00 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: speaking of things that should be ported to FreeBSD.. To: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Has anyone contacted Intel about porting their latest compiler to FreeBSD? Or at the very least the runtime objects? If icc is any improvement over gcc, it would be a very useful thing to have (since it's goal appears to be ia32 optimized C++, something that gcc's not very good at). - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 0:50: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web13607.mail.yahoo.com (web13607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF8AF37B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 00:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bzdik@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010519075004.61029.qmail@web13607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.122.12.184] by web13607.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 19 May 2001 00:50:04 PDT Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 00:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Bzdik BSD Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518215908.0476ec80@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Are we done with Opera? ;-) --- Brett Glass wrote: > At 09:52 PM 5/18/2001, Jamie Bowden wrote: > > >:What assumptions are you making about Wyoming that would lead you > to > >:believe that this is the case? > > > >State population density (or lack thereof in this case). I don't > see any > >indications that Wyoming is home to any major bandwidth either. > > We are home to more bandwidth than practically any other state, > because > we are traversed by the I-25 and I-80 corridors plus the Union > Pacific > and Burlington Northern railroad lines. MOST of the coast-to-coast > backbones go through Wyoming, and several nationwide providers have > switching and regeneration centers here. The University of Wyoming, > here in Laramie, is on Internet II and thus has massive amounts of > bandwidth. Still more bandwidth comes through on large microwave > links. Broadwing just fired up a huge fiber backbone that runs > within a mile of where I'm sitting.... We're looking at tapping in. > > >I'm not trying to pick a fight here Brett, but you're not exactly in > an > >urban setting by any stretch of the imagination. > > An urban setting does not necessarily correlate with the availability > of bandwidth. (Ask anyone in New York City who's tried to get DSL > from Verizon!) > > >I'd rather live in your setting personally, but this urban hell I > inhabit > >is where the jobs are. > > Actually, Cyberspace is where the jobs are. That's where I work... > the > nice part is that I get to live here. > > >:Plus hours of time redoing our spam filters, malware filters, mail > >:aliases, virtual host and user tables, list servers.... Not such a > small > >:task. > > > >Hours? Computers were designed to do exactly the sort of data > >manipulation you're talking about in an automated fashion. The > sed/awk > >bits to convert one format to another (on a test box of course) > shouldn't > >take that long. Testing is where hours come in, but those hours > were well > >spent if you will see a long term overall savings where your time is > >concerned. > > We do a lot of special things. We'd need to check to be sure that > the scripts worked as intended. > > >While I was by no means a top sendmail expert, I could and did > regularly > >edit the cf file without bothering to grab the manual. I've never > felt so > >good about dumping something that I spent so much time acquiring > skill > >with. > > I've edited the cf file, but don't pretend to know every piece of > magic > it contains. I do as much as I can with m4 macros, which are > themselves > tricky but still more manageable. > > Again, I'd have to learn about postfix or qmail before turning them > loose on key servers. Much of the spam I receive seems to have been > relayed by misconfigured qmail servers (though old versions of > Exchange > and Lotus Notes also rank high on the list). > > --Brett > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 3:34:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from impatience.valueclick.com (impatience.valueclick.com [216.246.96.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3190E37B424 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 03:34:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ask@valueclick.com) Received: (qmail 23589 invoked by uid 500); 19 May 2001 10:34:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 19 May 2001 10:34:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 03:34:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ask Bjoern Hansen To: Brett Glass Cc: Jamie Bowden , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518215908.0476ec80@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 18 May 2001, Brett Glass wrote: [...] > Again, I'd have to learn about postfix or qmail before turning them > loose on key servers. Much of the spam I receive seems to have been > relayed by misconfigured qmail servers (though old versions of Exchange > and Lotus Notes also rank high on the list). uhmn, doesn't sound likely. it's actually unreasonably tricky to misconfigure qmail like that. :-) - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than 100M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 6: 8:48 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D970537B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 06:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA59749; Sat, 19 May 2001 15:08:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alex Zepeda Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of things that should be ported to FreeBSD.. References: <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 19 May 2001 15:08:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Zepeda writes: > If icc is any improvement over gcc, it would be a very useful thing to > have (since it's goal appears to be ia32 optimized C++, something that > gcc's not very good at). How about http://www.openwatcom.com/? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 7: 4:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5103D37B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 07:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f4JE3gO25393; Sat, 19 May 2001 16:03:42 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 16:02:15 +0200 To: Jamie Bowden , Brett Glass From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Opera ports to QNX but not BSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 8:52 PM -0700 5/18/01, Jamie Bowden wrote: > While I was by no means a top sendmail expert, I could and did regularly > edit the cf file without bothering to grab the manual. I've never felt so > good about dumping something that I spent so much time acquiring skill > with. As the former comp.mail.sendmail FAQ maintainer, a guy who's been hacking around on sendmail for many years (indeed, most of the anti-spam stuff available today is directly or indirectly based on work I did while I was at AOL and contributed back), and being the only person I know of to recently present two different papers on the scaling of e-mail systems (based on sendmail) outside of employees of Sendmail, Inc. (SANE '98 and LISA 2000), I believe I can safely say that I am pretty familiar with sendmail. Indeed, I can also say that I am pretty familiar with postfix. I was involved on the mailing lists for postfix ever since it used to be called "VMailer", and I believe that I have contributed materially to the features that the program has today, as well as the way in which things have been done internally within the program. The conversion from sendmail to postfix is usually a pretty simple one. Postfix comes configured, out-of-the-box, to be about as secure as you can reasonably get, and all of the important factors have reasonable defaults assigned to them. Indeed, one of the original design goals for postfix was to be as much of a drop-in replacement for sendmail as possible, with the sole exception of the configuration file. About 99.9% of the things you might want to typically do with an MTA are relatively easily done in postfix, through table-driven techniques. While sendmail may be the best documented and most widely understood MTA in the world, I believe I can safely say that postfix has the most easily understandable MTA configuration file in the world, and newbies can easily do things in postfix that they would never dream of doing with sendmail. Moreover, because of the fact that Wietse was able to start with a clean slate and design a new MTA using 20/20 hindsight with regards to sendmail, he was able to do a lot of things in a much simpler and more straightforward manner. He was also able to do things in a way that would be more inherently secure, as well as being much more easily scalable. That said, if you have a more complex configuration, it is possible that it would take quite a bit of work to convert to a postfix equivalent, and if you're doing really esoteric things that require writing your own customer sendmail.cf rules for things that you can't normally do with sendmail, and aren't features that Wietse Venema has already anticipated, it may even be impossible to get a 100% conversion. In particular, anything with the new milter interface for sendmail is probably simply not possible to replicate with postfix. I can say that, at my previous employer, I ripped out sendmail on our outbound machines and replaced them with postfix, and did a rolling upgrade -- putting a new machine into service and then taking an old machine out (to be upgraded), one at a time. The conversion was about as smooth as it could get, and I later did the same for our front-end inbound mail servers. For simple configurations, replacing sendmail with postfix is about as trivially easy as you can get. it's the more complex configurations that may pose more of a problem. -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 9:19:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F139837B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (rh4.bfm.org [216.127.220.197]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 11:23:25 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 11:17:31 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Politically correct IIS attack In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> References: <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 13:01 18-05-2001 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-023.asp > >which conclusively proves that you can break into an IIS server >MUCH faster than you can break into an Apache server. ;-) Strange. That article also gives the impression that someone at MS is taking political correctness to the extreme. Whenever the article talks about an attacker, it says "she" or "her". Is MS suggesting that only a woman would attack an IIS? Adam --- http://phonecowboy.com/registrar/twist/ finds a good domain for you and checks for its existence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 10:15:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61C937B424 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 10:15:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Rahul.Siddharthan@lpt.ens.fr) Received: from corto.lpt.ens.fr (corto.lpt.ens.fr [129.199.122.2]) by nef.ens.fr (8.10.1/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id f4JHFcR40198 ; Sat, 19 May 2001 19:15:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from (rsidd@localhost) by corto.lpt.ens.fr (8.9.3/jtpda-5.3.1) id TAA19894 ; Sat, 19 May 2001 19:16:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 19:16:05 +0200 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Politically correct IIS attack Message-ID: <20010519191605.A16567@lpt.ens.fr> Mail-Followup-To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com>; from adam@whizkidtech.net on Sat, May 19, 2001 at 11:17:31AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org G. Adam Stanislav said on May 19, 2001 at 11:17:31: > >which conclusively proves that you can break into an IIS server > >MUCH faster than you can break into an Apache server. ;-) > > Strange. That article also gives the impression that someone > at MS is taking political correctness to the extreme. > > Whenever the article talks about an attacker, it says "she" or > "her". Is MS suggesting that only a woman would attack an IIS? It's pretty common these days. Also, hasn't this come up before? Seems to be a favourite topic of yours :) http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=151171+152739+/usr/local/www/db/text/2001/freebsd-chat/20010211.freebsd-chat and the thread which followed... -R To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 12:13:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9214337B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 12:13:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.9]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0GDL0027RK2JB2@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 May 2001 12:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 533521908; Sat, 19 May 2001 12:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:13:25 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: speaking of things that should be ported to FreeBSD.. In-reply-to: ; from des@ofug.org on Sat, May 19, 2001 at 03:08:09PM +0200 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010519121325.A695@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 03:08:09PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Alex Zepeda writes: > > If icc is any improvement over gcc, it would be a very useful thing to > > have (since it's goal appears to be ia32 optimized C++, something that > > gcc's not very good at). > > How about http://www.openwatcom.com/? Well.. the Intel compiler is here, now. And it works with the GNU binutils, and it creates ELF objects. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 13:36:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17E437B43E for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 13:36:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01682; Sat, 19 May 2001 14:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010519142814.0458c100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 14:28:54 -0600 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Alex Zepeda From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: speaking of things that should be ported to FreeBSD.. Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:08 AM 5/19/2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: >Alex Zepeda writes: >> If icc is any improvement over gcc, it would be a very useful thing to >> have (since it's goal appears to be ia32 optimized C++, something that >> gcc's not very good at). > >How about http://www.openwatcom.com/? Will their code be GPLed? Or will it be released under a truly free license? --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 15:56:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E8C37B42C for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 15:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA61643; Sun, 20 May 2001 00:56:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Alex Zepeda Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: speaking of things that should be ported to FreeBSD.. References: <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010519121325.A695@zippy.mybox.zip> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 20 May 2001 00:56:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20010519121325.A695@zippy.mybox.zip> Message-ID: Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alex Zepeda writes: > On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 03:08:09PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > How about http://www.openwatcom.com/? > Well.. the Intel compiler is here, now. And it works with the GNU > binutils, and it creates ELF objects. Intel released their compiler? I wasn't aware of that - where can one get it? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 16:44:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow028o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEDAE37B424 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 16:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@t-f-i.freeserve.co.uk) Received: from lexx.my.domain ([62.31.194.122]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 20 May 2001 00:46:34 +0100 From: John Murphy To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: test Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 00:47:05 +0100 Organization: The Organisation Reply-To: john@T-F-I.freeserve.co.uk Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terribly sorry to do this. I've changed from a dial up ISP to HSI and I'm trying to un-subscribe and re-subscribe without dialing up my old ISP. It'll never work :( John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 17: 5:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow028o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5538437B424 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 17:05:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from john@t-f-i.freeserve.co.uk) Received: from lexx.my.domain ([62.31.194.122]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 20 May 2001 01:07:33 +0100 From: John Murphy To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: test Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 01:08:04 +0100 Organization: The Organisation Reply-To: john@T-F-I.freeserve.co.uk Message-ID: <7k2egtct6vthpqnabjrnmfsujlkhpap78s@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message Did that, got the "auth" message; sent it back, received: Nada, ziltch, nothing... Even changed the From and Reply To fields in the e-mail client. Sometimes I hate Major Dumbo. John. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 17:13:24 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C039737B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 17:13:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (rh10.bfm.org [216.127.220.203]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 19:17:37 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010519191207.00e68ba0@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 19:12:07 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Politically correct IIS attack In-Reply-To: <20010519191605.A16567@lpt.ens.fr> References: <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 19:16 19-05-2001 +0200, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: >It's pretty common these days. Also, hasn't this come up before? >Seems to be a favourite topic of yours :) Well, I don't remember everything I have ever said. :) But I sure find this kind of exaggerated PC silly. On a totally different topic, I have just cvsupped my ports collection. I then tried to get a port just to be told I needed to upgrade my ports make file. I went to freebsd.org/ports/ and found out they no longer support my version (3.1). I wish CVSup knew about it somehow. Now I have no way of going back to what I had before, so I could at least get the ports that work with my system. This is very frustrating! Greg has told me quite a while ago that I do not have enough memory for v.4. I have always liked FreeBSD because it would run on just about anything, even old 386's. I am disappointed that FreeBSD no longer officially supports my 6 year old system (Pentium 100, 8 Meg). I am finding myself spending less and less time in FreeBSD: I only use it as a development platform for my CGI needs for my web sites (which are hosted by pair Networks on FreeBSD 2.7 or so). And it saddens me when I see rich kids saying, "so what, memory is cheap." Hey, if it were cheap, I'd have upgraded it long time ago. I was making $800/month as a nursing assistant for the last 6 years. And I just lost that job 2.5 weeks ago. I could, of course, work as a programmer for a lot more than that, except no one needs any programmers where I live (Northern WI). Plus, I am disabled enough not to find ANY job in this town, but not enough to collect disability. (The nerve endings on my feet are dead so I have no feeling in my feet.) Adam --- http://phonecowboy.com/registrar/twist/ finds a good domain for you and checks for its existence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 17:19:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C933B37B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 17:19:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03108; Sat, 19 May 2001 18:19:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010519181042.00d28cc0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 18:11:47 -0600 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Politically correct IIS attack In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010519191207.00e68ba0@mail85.pair.com> References: <20010519191605.A16567@lpt.ens.fr> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Adam, what kind of RAM does your system take? Let me know and I'll send you a few SIMMS or DIMMS. Or a motherboard. --Brett At 06:12 PM 5/19/2001, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: >This is very frustrating! Greg has told me quite a while ago that I >do not have enough memory for v.4. I have always liked FreeBSD because >it would run on just about anything, even old 386's. I am >disappointed that FreeBSD no longer officially supports my 6 year old >system (Pentium 100, 8 Meg). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 17:29:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7186037B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 17:29:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.139]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0GDL000A5YO5KR@mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 May 2001 17:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5161B1868; Sat, 19 May 2001 17:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 17:28:52 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: speaking of things that should be ported to FreeBSD.. In-reply-to: ; from des@ofug.org on Sun, May 20, 2001 at 12:56:21AM +0200 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010519172852.A771@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <20010518220859.A6243@zippy.mybox.zip> <20010519121325.A695@zippy.mybox.zip> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, May 20, 2001 at 12:56:21AM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Alex Zepeda writes: > > On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 03:08:09PM +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > How about http://www.openwatcom.com/? > > Well.. the Intel compiler is here, now. And it works with the GNU > > binutils, and it creates ELF objects. > > Intel released their compiler? I wasn't aware of that - where can one > get it? Yup. http://www.releasesoftware.com/_intelbetacenteronlinux/cgi-bin/pd.cgi?page=product_info&pid=P8DA1D8030D1511D5BEB5001000D The problem is that the compiler is Linux only. This in itself creates three small problems: * the runtime objects are Linux and binary only * the runtime objects depend on the linux rtld * the compiler doesn't brand the resulting binaries The only problem with fbsd headers that I've been able to notice was that icc has an wchar_t type. Thus the typedef is unnecesary. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 18: 4:38 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 851D137B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 18:04:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jazepeda@pacbell.net) Received: from zippy.mybox.zip ([207.214.149.139]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0GDM00CKT09R1P@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 19 May 2001 18:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zippy.mybox.zip (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C859F1868; Sat, 19 May 2001 18:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 18:03:14 -0700 From: Alex Zepeda Subject: Re: Politically correct IIS attack In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20010519191207.00e68ba0@mail85.pair.com>; from adam@whizkidtech.net on Sat, May 19, 2001 at 07:12:07PM -0500 To: "G. Adam Stanislav" Cc: chat@freebsd.org Message-id: <20010519180314.A1240@zippy.mybox.zip> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i References: <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> <20010519191605.A16567@lpt.ens.fr> <3.0.6.32.20010519191207.00e68ba0@mail85.pair.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 07:12:07PM -0500, G. Adam Stanislav wrote: > I wish CVSup knew about it somehow. Now I have no way of going back > to what I had before, so I could at least get the ports that work with > my system. Sure you do. Before you troll for pity, please read the docu. You can tweak the supfile to go for a specific branch (which won't work for the ports tree, since it's not branched), or you can go for a target date. Just fine one before 4-current became 4.0-R. - alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 18:21:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C267E37B422 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 18:21:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (r13.bfm.org [216.127.220.109]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 20:25:33 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010519201859.00ad2680@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 20:18:59 -0500 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Politically correct IIS attack In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010519181042.00d28cc0@localhost> References: <3.0.6.32.20010519191207.00e68ba0@mail85.pair.com> <20010519191605.A16567@lpt.ens.fr> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 18:11 19-05-2001 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: >Adam, what kind of RAM does your system take? Let me know and I'll >send you a few SIMMS or DIMMS. Or a motherboard. > >--Brett Wow, thank you, Brett! I am sending you the details in private email. Adam --- http://phonecowboy.com/registrar/twist/ finds a good domain for you and checks for its existence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat May 19 18:29:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.bfm.org (mail.bfm.org [216.127.218.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC9637B424 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 18:29:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from adam@whizkidtech.net) Received: from WhizKid (r13.bfm.org [216.127.220.109]) by mail.bfm.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52399U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id org; Sat, 19 May 2001 20:33:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010519202811.00aefb40@mail85.pair.com> X-Sender: whizkid@mail85.pair.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 20:28:11 -0500 To: Alex Zepeda From: "G. Adam Stanislav" Subject: Re: Politically correct IIS attack Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20010519180314.A1240@zippy.mybox.zip> References: <3.0.6.32.20010519191207.00e68ba0@mail85.pair.com> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> <20010518175955.A94216@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010518130043.04466f00@localhost> <3.0.6.32.20010519111731.00ada1c0@mail85.pair.com> <20010519191605.A16567@lpt.ens.fr> <3.0.6.32.20010519191207.00e68ba0@mail85.pair.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 18:03 19-05-2001 -0700, Alex Zepeda wrote: >Before you troll for pity, please read the docu. > >You can tweak the supfile to go for a specific branch (which won't work >for the ports tree, since it's not branched), or you can go for a target >date. Just fine one before 4-current became 4.0-R. It is the ports I was talking about. I am not asking for pity. I am chatting. If I were looking for pity, I'd have talked a lot more about my health. :) Would the target date work with the ports? If so, what would be the right date for a 3.1 system? Adam --- http://phonecowboy.com/registrar/twist/ finds a good domain for you and checks for its existence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message