From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 15 6:51:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBAC837B400 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 06:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.inf.ufsc.br (terra.inf.ufsc.br [150.162.60.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717AE43E3B for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 06:51:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maianeto@inf.ufsc.br) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by terra.inf.ufsc.br (Departamento de Informatica e Estatistica (INE/CTC/UFSC)) with ESMTP id 08CD315903 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:02:04 -0300 (BRT) Received: from screammer (inf185.inf.ufsc.br [150.162.60.185]) by terra.inf.ufsc.br (Departamento de Informatica e Estatistica (INE/CTC/UFSC)) with ESMTP id C6C2C1599F for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:02:01 -0300 (BRT) From: "Luiz Rodrigues Maia Neto" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:05:21 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: subscribe Reply-To: maianeto@inf.ufsc.br Message-ID: <3F659CF1.8827.8E3E6D6@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre5 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 15 7:22:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AD237B400 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 07:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from terra.inf.ufsc.br (terra.inf.ufsc.br [150.162.60.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1631B43E42 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 07:22:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from maianeto@inf.ufsc.br) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by terra.inf.ufsc.br (Departamento de Informatica e Estatistica (INE/CTC/UFSC)) with ESMTP id 5823A174A9 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:33:03 -0300 (BRT) Received: from screammer (inf185.inf.ufsc.br [150.162.60.185]) by terra.inf.ufsc.br (Departamento de Informatica e Estatistica (INE/CTC/UFSC)) with ESMTP id D8D5817480 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:33:01 -0300 (BRT) From: "Luiz Rodrigues Maia Neto" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:36:22 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: subscribe Reply-To: maianeto@inf.ufsc.br Message-ID: <3F65A436.768.9004A75@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre5 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe maianeto@inf.ufsc.br To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 15 10:58:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D2237B400 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from windmill-en0.garlic.com (windmill-en0.garlic.com [208.195.160.130]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3370843E6E for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:58:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from madriax@garlic.com) Received: from pookie (155.sm7.dialup.garlic.net [216.139.3.155]) by windmill-en0.garlic.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g8FHw4Z64290 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:58:06 -0700 From: "Pookie" To: Subject: Help out (NVIDIA) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:57:34 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c25ce1$6cac3fa0$0100a8c0@pookie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As I'm sure some of us know. FreeBSD doesn't support OpenGL and graphics acceleration with out NVIDIA graphics cards. If you run FreeBSD with a NVIDIA card please take a few seconds to fill out a petition. This petition basically says we want NVIDIA to either release the source code for drivers or for them to release binary drivers for FreeBSD, thanks for you time. http://php50.com/bsd_nvdriver_now/en.htm -Remington To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 15 12:56: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3402837B425 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from piwebs.com (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F2DF43E65 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:56:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 11402 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2002 19:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amd760.piwebs.com) (192.168.0.114) by 0 with SMTP; 15 Sep 2002 19:55:59 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: "Pookie" , Subject: Re: Help out (NVIDIA) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:55:56 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 References: <000101c25ce1$6cac3fa0$0100a8c0@pookie> In-Reply-To: <000101c25ce1$6cac3fa0$0100a8c0@pookie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200209152155.56056.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Doesn't this petition already exist (since january 2001) at=20 http://nvidia.netexplorer.org/petition.html ? Arjan On Sunday 15 September 2002 19:57, Pookie wrote: > As I'm sure some of us know. FreeBSD doesn't support OpenGL and graphic= s > acceleration with out NVIDIA graphics cards. If you run FreeBSD with a > NVIDIA card please take a few seconds to fill out a petition. This > petition basically says we want NVIDIA to either release the source cod= e > for drivers or for them to release binary drivers for FreeBSD, thanks > for you time. > > http://php50.com/bsd_nvdriver_now/en.htm > -Remington > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Sep 15 21:23:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB7537B400 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24AAC43E6A for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8G4NBLT006675 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:23:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8G4NAUd006674 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:23:10 -0600 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me) Message-ID: <20020916042309.GA6651@anthonychavez.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020913233839.GA6426@anthonychavez.org> <20020913202222.A4219@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020913202222.A4219@blackhelicopters.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 08:22:22PM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:38:39PM -0600, Anthony C. Chavez wrote: > > vs. Solaris > > So, did you have any results from that search that we could use here? Unfortunately, no. This is something that I think that we're going to have to put together ourselves. I use the plural sense (i.e., "we're" and "ourselves") here because I have already made plans to contribute to the PR effort as much as possible (even though I haven't said anything), but my hands are quite tied ATM. Hopefully I'll have something useful to contribute within the space of a couple of weeks, but I need to get permission first. :-) -- acc@anthonychavez.org http://www.anthonychavez.org/ All true wisdom is found on T-shirts. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 2:12: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A09937B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 02:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from witchspace.com (pc1-rdng1-4-cust134.bre.cable.ntl.com [213.105.81.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 88EFC43E3B for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 02:12:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jon@witchspace.com) Received: (qmail 7742 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 09:12:03 -0000 Received: from lexx.witchspace.com (HELO witchspace.com) (192.168.0.1) by dookie.witchspace.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 09:12:03 -0000 Message-ID: <3D85A063.9000601@witchspace.com> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:12:03 +0100 From: Jonathan Belson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i386; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Couple of questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hiya Just in case anyone's got a long memory: When did [Free]BSD gain NAT/IP masquerading? I couldn't see it mentioned in the Design and Implementation [...] book; did it appear after FreeBSD was forked? Did Linux ever use the BSD network stack? If so, roughly when did it happen? Cheers, --Jon http://www.witchspace.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 5:31: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D703E37B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB7E43E3B for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:31:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GCV7QA020991 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:31:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GCV7b6020990 for advocacy@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:31:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:31:07 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Example PR opportunity Message-ID: <20020916083107.A20974@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, folks, this one is not a drill. http://www.idg.se/ArticlePages%2F200209%2F13%2F20020913142000340_SOS5%2F20020913142000340_SOS5.dbp.asp I'm told by a reliable source that this translates to "The Swedish Government is using FreeBSD to run their elections system." This is good news for us. I'd like to suggest that we use this article as a sample to build a PR checklist. How do we push this, and where? We should put even the obvious, such as Daemon News postings, on this checklist. And yes, "translate" sholud be a step as well. ;-) ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 5:44: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE53137B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7088943E42 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GCi4QA021054; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:44:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GCi0A3021053; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:44:00 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: GB Subject: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Message-ID: <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE>; from gbrooks@BLUE-MOUSE.COM on Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:04:59PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG So, we all got distracted on "Things to Do." Things to Do are good. But we don't have a blueprint yet. Greg asked some good, basic questions here, and (basically) said that failure to answer those questions and stick to the answers was a big cause of PR campaign failures. We of course skipped that step. :-) On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:04:59PM -0500, GB wrote: > Think of communicating about FreeBSD as a process rather than an event > -- handling PR, communications or whatever you want to call it as a > one-shot is sort of like thinking about network security as a one-time > event: Such efforts are largely destined to fail. OK. So, we need some sort of process and checklist for things. PR event happens, do X, Y, and Z. This checklist should be available as part of our PR-internal web site. The following are my suggestions for answers to Greg's questions. Please discuss and clarify. > Things to define include: > > * Who are our key audiences? By this I mean those most likely to adopt > FreeBSD or influence the decision process. (Having said that, I > recognize that focusing on potential adopters and their influencers is > just my gut instinct -- can anyone identify other groups we should be > reaching out to? Standards-setting bodies? Other *nix communities? Tim > O'Reilly so he'll send us free books?) Our key audiences: 1) ISPs: ISPs have long been fans of FreeBSD 2) Systems Administrators 3) Security-conscious networks 4) Embedded systems producers (no GPL to worry them, hurrah!) > * What makes FreeBSD different/better for the newbie? For the person > with a little Linux experience under his/her belt? For the I.T. pro? > And, while we're at it, what does FreeBSD suck at? (Granted, we may > think it sucks at nothing, but someone is going to identify weaknesses > with the OS, and it's sound communications practice to have an answer > for ever assertion likely to come up.) Better for the newbie: Better for the Linux convert: --documentation: there is one true FreeBSD, none of this "this tutorial only good under Purple Snot Linux" crud. --centralized design team --ports system Better for the professional: --high performance --very secure --simple upgrade process --very, very debugged --designed and coded by highly experienced computing professionals Places of suckage: --lack of "wizards" > * What are we out in front on? Linux has a foothold in the corporate > I.T. world, OpenBSD has security and NetBSD has portability. What's our > niche? Related question: Out of this niche and our identified strengths, > what's our "elevator story?" (The 1-2 minute spiel what says what > FreeBSD is, why it's good and why it matters.) We are the "friendly BSD". Niche: Here, I'm stuck. I use FreeBSD damn near everywhere, except my crash lab. > So far, I've heard mentions of posters and some other materials. Any > thoughts on how effective (if at all) any of the following might be: > > * Professionally formatted white paper comparing FreeBSD-based solutions > to Windows/Linux in various situations. These would be excellent tools for systems administrators seeking to use FreeBSD. > * FAQs or introductory documents directed at specific groups (again, I > keep thinking of utter newbies, those who've dabbled in Linux and the > I.T. professional, but there are likely other groups as well). In a > perfect world, of course, everyone finds Perfect Wisdom by R-ingTFM -- > but we don't live in a perfect world, so every bit we do to make the > learning curve easier helps make inroads. These FAQs could be kept as "sub-divisions" of the current FAQ. Perhaps we could somehow "tag" FAQ entries as ones that should be included in a particular FAQ. > * Some standard press materials/backgrounders that the media could > download, such as: > > -- FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac OS (a one-page table) > -- Major sites running FreeBSD > -- Uptime/reliability stats > etc... Yes! ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 5:50:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B561B37B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmler1.mail.eds.com (spmler1.mail.eds.com [194.128.225.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8D543E3B for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 05:50:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin.svensson@eds.com) Received: from spmlir3.mail.eds.com (spmlir3.mail.eds.com [205.191.69.205]) by spmler1.mail.eds.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8GCk8q09547; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:46:08 +0100 Received: from spmlir3.mail.eds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spmlir3.mail.eds.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8GCoTG05436; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:50:29 +0100 Received: from gbspm002.exemhub.exch.eds.com ([207.37.51.200]) by spmlir3.mail.eds.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8GCoSv05427; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:50:28 +0100 Received: by GBSPM002 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:50:25 +0100 Message-ID: <5917FD47436E784D8B08F132F0AC506113A00E@sessm201.sthlm.se.eds.com> From: "Svensson, Martin" To: "'Michael Lucas'" , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Example PR opportunity Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:50:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The election authority in Sweden are using Apache on FreeBSD as a platform to run the election site, www.val.se, where all the poules will be presented according to this article. The article doesn't say anything about what OS the other systems are running, but the website is on FreeBSD. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site=www.val.se&su bmit=Examine If you want me to translate the whole article for you, just let me know! /Martin -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lucas [mailto:mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org] Sent: den 16 september 2002 14:31 To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Example PR opportunity OK, folks, this one is not a drill. http://www.idg.se/ArticlePages%2F200209%2F13%2F20020913142000340_SOS5%2F2002 0913142000340_SOS5.dbp.asp I'm told by a reliable source that this translates to "The Swedish Government is using FreeBSD to run their elections system." This is good news for us. I'd like to suggest that we use this article as a sample to build a PR checklist. How do we push this, and where? We should put even the obvious, such as Daemon News postings, on this checklist. And yes, "translate" sholud be a step as well. ;-) ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 6: 8:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AAB437B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 06:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2718C43E42 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 06:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GD8XQA021211; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:08:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GD8XV9021210; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:08:32 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: "Svensson, Martin" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Example PR opportunity Message-ID: <20020916090832.A21196@blackhelicopters.org> References: <5917FD47436E784D8B08F132F0AC506113A00E@sessm201.sthlm.se.eds.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5917FD47436E784D8B08F132F0AC506113A00E@sessm201.sthlm.se.eds.com>; from martin.svensson@eds.com on Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 01:50:07PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Aw, dang, this isn't news. :-( I thought it was "Sweden implements e-voting on FreeBSD." Now *that* would have been news! On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 01:50:07PM +0100, Svensson, Martin wrote: > > The election authority in Sweden are using Apache on FreeBSD as a platform > to run the election site, www.val.se, where all the poules will be presented > according to this article. The article doesn't say anything about what OS > the other systems are running, but the website is on FreeBSD. > > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site=www.val.se&su > bmit=Examine > > If you want me to translate the whole article for you, just let me know! > > /Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Lucas [mailto:mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org] > Sent: den 16 september 2002 14:31 > To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Example PR opportunity > > > OK, folks, this one is not a drill. > > http://www.idg.se/ArticlePages%2F200209%2F13%2F20020913142000340_SOS5%2F2002 > 0913142000340_SOS5.dbp.asp > > I'm told by a reliable source that this translates to "The Swedish > Government is using FreeBSD to run their elections system." This is > good news for us. > > I'd like to suggest that we use this article as a sample to build a PR > checklist. How do we push this, and where? We should put even the > obvious, such as Daemon News postings, on this checklist. > > And yes, "translate" sholud be a step as well. ;-) > > ==ml > > -- > Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 6:27:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F9837B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 06:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spmler1.mail.eds.com (spmler1.mail.eds.com [194.128.225.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B91243E6A for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 06:27:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from martin.svensson@eds.com) Received: from spmlir3.mail.eds.com (spmlir3.mail.eds.com [205.191.69.205]) by spmler1.mail.eds.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8GDLrq25088; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:21:53 +0100 Received: from spmlir3.mail.eds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spmlir3.mail.eds.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8GDQDG10707; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:26:13 +0100 Received: from gbspm002.exemhub.exch.eds.com ([207.37.51.200]) by spmlir3.mail.eds.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8GDQDv10697; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:26:13 +0100 Received: by GBSPM002 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:26:10 +0100 Message-ID: <5917FD47436E784D8B08F132F0AC506113A010@sessm201.sthlm.se.eds.com> From: "Svensson, Martin" To: "'Michael Lucas'" Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Example PR opportunity Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:25:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well, I'm sorry to have spoiled the fun for ya ;) But all of us Swedes still had to get our butts to the voting offices yesterday, no e-election so far... /M >Aw, dang, this isn't news. :-( > >I thought it was "Sweden implements e-voting on FreeBSD." Now *that* >would have been news! > >On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 01:50:07PM +0100, Svensson, Martin wrote: >> >> The election authority in Sweden are using Apache on FreeBSD as a platform >> to run the election site, www.val.se, where all the poules will be presented >> according to this article. The article doesn't say anything about what OS >> the other systems are running, but the website is on FreeBSD. >> >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?mode_u=off&mode_w=on&site=www.val.se&su >> bmit=Examine >> >> If you want me to translate the whole article for you, just let me know! >> >> /Martin >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 7:32:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F9837B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F182043E42 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0282.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.43.27] helo=mindspring.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qwva-0005Zp-00; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:32:42 -0700 Message-ID: <3D85EB46.9E9FA747@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:31:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Belson Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Couple of questions References: <3D85A063.9000601@witchspace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jonathan Belson wrote: > Just in case anyone's got a long memory: > > When did [Free]BSD gain NAT/IP masquerading? I couldn't see it > mentioned in the Design and Implementation [...] book; did it > appear after FreeBSD was forked? There was an implementation back when it was incorrectly called "IP Masquerading", but it wasn't integrated into FreeBSD proper, because there was no RFC, and it broke Path MTU discovery, which was (and still is) considered a Bad Thing(tm). You get to see people complain about this on -questions or -hackers or -net occasionally, when they don't realize that their problem is that the MTU on their NAT box is set too high (these days, it's mostly PPPOE that has problems). I believe the first integration of an implementation occurred in October of 1994, about 6 months after the publication of RFC 1631, when it became a standard that had to be supported. > Did Linux ever use the BSD network stack? If so, roughly when > did it happen? You should as Matt Dillon that question, since he's the one who did the first two rewrites on the Linux TCP stack, I believe... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 7:47:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3582437B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE3643E4A for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:47:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GEllkG005682; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:47:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GElkMW005681; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:47:46 -0600 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: Michael Lucas Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, GB Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Message-ID: <20020916144746.GA5629@anthonychavez.org> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > Our key audiences: > > 1) ISPs: ISPs have long been fans of FreeBSD > 2) Systems Administrators > 3) Security-conscious networks > 4) Embedded systems producers (no GPL to worry them, hurrah!) Allow me to generalize this a bit: A) Techies B) Suits/marketroids C) CEOs It's probably quite obvious, but now it's been said. :-) -- acc@anthonychavez.org http://www.anthonychavez.org/ Anyone who believes that corporate research can or should replace university research deserves to live in a world where this has taken place. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 8:32:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C8337B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7765043E3B for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0282.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.43.27] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17qxqw-0003ek-00; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:31:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3D85F920.487157E@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:30:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anthony C. Chavez" Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, GB Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> <20020916144746.GA5629@anthonychavez.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Anthony C. Chavez" wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > > Our key audiences: > > > > 1) ISPs: ISPs have long been fans of FreeBSD > > 2) Systems Administrators > > 3) Security-conscious networks > > 4) Embedded systems producers (no GPL to worry them, hurrah!) > > Allow me to generalize this a bit: > > A) Techies > B) Suits/marketroids > C) CEOs You are arguing about market segmentation, which is a fine thing to argue about, if what you are dealing with is an attempt to "Cross The Chasm". I think, however, that the issues that need to be addressed are the "whole product" issue, the value proposition, and finding the "Early Majority". Technology adoption lifecycle as classically perceived: ==// =====///// ========/////// =========//////// ==========///////// ===========////////// ============/////////// //============////////////= //////============////////////===== #######////////////============////////////================ Innovators Early Early Late Laggards Adopters Majority Majority Technology adoption lifecycle, including "The Chasm", including the relative division between psychographic groups: == // ===== ///// The ======== /////// Chasm ========= //////// | ========== ///////// V =========== ////////// ============ /////////// // ============ //////////// = ////// ============ //////////// ===== ####### //////////// ============ //////////// ================ Innovators Early Early Late Laggards Adopters Majority Majority Terry's projection of an Internet company onto the technology adoption lifecycle: The Customers Are Here ---. V == // You Internet ===== ///// Are Is Over ======== /////// Here Here ========= //////// | | ========== ///////// V V =========== ////////// ============ /////////// // ============ //////////// = ////// ============ //////////// ===== ####### //////////// ============ //////////// ================ Innovators Early Early Late Laggards Adopters Majority Majority Note that neither FreeBSD nor Linux has worked through the early adopter phase yet, and thet neither has actually "crossed the chasm". Though Linux has been trying pretty hard to do so, it has yet to find a major commercial success in the mainstream market as "Linux" (e.g. no brand recognition with the average housewife, the way Microsoft has brand recognition). I also don't think that marketing plans are possible to plan and execute successfully in the light of a public mailing list, since such plans always depend on getting past your opposition's point guards to score, and if you put all your intended plays up on the Jumbotron(tm), you aren't going to be able to win the game. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 8:51:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E58237B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417AF43E75 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GFpPkG005907; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:51:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GFpKxf005906; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:51:20 -0600 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Michael Lucas , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, GB Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Message-ID: <20020916155120.GA5858@anthonychavez.org> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> <20020916144746.GA5629@anthonychavez.org> <3D85F920.487157E@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D85F920.487157E@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:30:40AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > "Anthony C. Chavez" wrote: > > Allow me to generalize this a bit: > > > > A) Techies > > B) Suits/marketroids > > C) CEOs > > You are arguing about market segmentation, which is a fine thing > to argue about, if what you are dealing with is an attempt to > "Cross The Chasm". Actually, what I intended to bring to light was that, in my eyes, there are 3 different markets (actually, the latter 2 could be combined to some degree) that should be treated seperately when doing PR---i.e., it would be a good idea to have 3 different presentations in every case. Time was not a factor in my assertion. You're not going to want to give Joe President of Fooblitzky.com, LLC a technical review of FreeBSD's VM system or the glories of devfs. He's going to want to hear "stable, secure, reliable, low TCO, etc." Of course, I don't have any background in marketing whatsoever, so I could be wrong. :-) -- acc@anthonychavez.org http://www.anthonychavez.org/ Bring back Gopher! http://www.scn.org/~bkarger/gopher-manifesto To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 9: 3:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA61C37B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02A4C43E4A for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:03:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GG3RQA022317; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:03:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GG3Q4m022316; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:03:26 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: "Anthony C. Chavez" Cc: Terry Lambert , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, GB Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Message-ID: <20020916120326.A22279@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> <20020916144746.GA5629@anthonychavez.org> <3D85F920.487157E@mindspring.com> <20020916155120.GA5858@anthonychavez.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020916155120.GA5858@anthonychavez.org>; from acc@anthonychavez.org on Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 09:51:20AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 09:51:20AM -0600, Anthony C. Chavez wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:30:40AM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: > > "Anthony C. Chavez" wrote: > > > Allow me to generalize this a bit: > > > > > > A) Techies > > > B) Suits/marketroids > > > C) CEOs > > > > You are arguing about market segmentation, which is a fine thing > > to argue about, if what you are dealing with is an attempt to > > "Cross The Chasm". > > Actually, what I intended to bring to light was that, in my eyes, there > are 3 different markets (actually, the latter 2 could be combined to > some degree) that should be treated seperately when doing PR---i.e., it > would be a good idea to have 3 different presentations in every case. True, but it gets worse. We're looking at two different axes of a matrix. There are the "Marketers of ISPs", "Techies of embedded companies," etc. Each of these sections, ideally, will have a separate presentation. Many will be very similar, but that's OK. For example, the GPL is a big deal in embedded circles, but a small deal in the ISP world. We want our PR materials to be short and sweet and focused. While we are certainly not crossing the chasm, we want particular people to be able to find the information most relevant for them very quickly. We want Joe Schmoe, writer for "Embedded OS Monthly," to be able to find enough focused, relevant FreeBSD information that he will be able to churn out his two thousand words in a morning. Remember, Joe Schmoe is lazy, and the tighter focus we have on the information, the better. Actually, posting these documents in an actual matrix might be useful... ("Correlate your market with your audience, and click!") > Of course, I don't have any background in marketing whatsoever, so I > could be wrong. :-) That's why we say nice things about Greg. Please don't scare him off until we suck him dry. ;-) ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 10:30:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2941A37B401 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2777443E3B for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GHUIkG006405; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:30:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GHUHbI006404; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:30:17 -0600 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: Michael Lucas Cc: Terry Lambert , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, GB Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Message-ID: <20020916173017.GD5964@anthonychavez.org> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> <20020916144746.GA5629@anthonychavez.org> <3D85F920.487157E@mindspring.com> <20020916155120.GA5858@anthonychavez.org> <20020916120326.A22279@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020916120326.A22279@blackhelicopters.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 12:03:26PM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > Actually, posting these documents in an actual matrix might be > useful... ("Correlate your market with your audience, and click!") That is an excellent idea! > That's why we say nice things about Greg. Please don't scare him off > until we suck him dry. ;-) That wasn't my intention by any means. I'm just offering up my recent experiences with doing PR. -- acc@anthonychavez.org http://www.anthonychavez.org/ Kein mitleid fuer Microsoft! http://www.kmfms.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 13:12:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19DFD37B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (milan.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.144]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47FFA43E3B for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E9BA91E; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:12:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F0AF61523A; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:12:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:12:13 +0200 From: Christian Brueffer To: Michael Lucas Cc: Dan Langille , GB , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me) Message-ID: <20020916201213.GC602@unixpages.org> References: <000901c25b79$de6ef7e0$f100a8c0@JEREMIAH> <20020913201955.B4164@blackhelicopters.org> <3D826DC4.18592.2ABD79EC@localhost> <20020913230159.A5194@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020913230159.A5194@blackhelicopters.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 11:02:00PM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 10:59:16PM -0400, Dan Langille wrote: > > On 13 Sep 2002 at 20:19, Michael Lucas wrote: > > > > > As my Sifu would say: "It is better to build yourself up, than cut > > > down your opponent." > > > > Agree. An advocate simply does not cut down opponents. This is > > something I stressed in my talk to a Linux group: > > > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/talks/oclug/ > > Nice slides! So, what would it take to get you to make these slides > available for general inclusion in the FreeBSD PR repo? > Hi, Hubert Feyrer of NetBSD fame put together a slideshow that was running on a demo machine first at the Chemnitzer Linuxtag in Chemnitz, Germany (NetBSD only) and afterwards at our BSD booth at the Linuxtag in Karlsruhe, Germany (adapted version to cover all three BSDs). All in all it was a nice eye-catcher :-) At the moment, only the NetBSD-only version is available online. I'll ask Hubert to put the All-BSD version online as well. Slideshow preview: http://rfhs8012.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/clt4-slideshow.gif Slideshow (using MagicPoint i think) http://rfhs8012.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/clt4-slideshow.tgz If there's interest, I could translate the stuff into english and make a special FreeBSD version. - Christian P.S. A Report from the BSD booth at the Linux Kongress in Cologne, Germany will come in the next few days -- http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc GPG Fingerprint: 0DB5 8563 2473 C72A A8D1 56EA DAD2 B05D 5F3C 3185 GPG Key ID : DAD2B05D5F3C3185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 13:24:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B850337B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from piwebs.com (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E52343E3B for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:24:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 19794 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 20:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amd760.piwebs.com) (192.168.0.114) by 0 with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 20:24:57 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: Michael Lucas , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:24:48 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 Cc: GB References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> In-Reply-To: <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200209162224.48622.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > * What are we out in front on? Linux has a foothold in the corporate > > I.T. world, OpenBSD has security and NetBSD has portability. What's o= ur > > niche? Related question: Out of this niche and our identified strengt= hs, > > what's our "elevator story?" (The 1-2 minute spiel what says what > > FreeBSD is, why it's good and why it matters.) > > We are the "friendly BSD". Stability, performance and security? I think FreeBSD is more versatile th= an=20 the other BSD's (hope I'm not offending anyone here), and should thus be=20 marketed as a versatile operating system. Our main points of focus should= be=20 stability and security, as those things are very important to a lot of pe= ople=20 making decisions about operating systems. The comparison to Linux can be divided in the license issues, the fact th= at we=20 have one OS (instead of many distributions) that is also easier to upgrad= e &=20 maintain, and stability. > > > > * Professionally formatted white paper comparing FreeBSD-based soluti= ons > > to Windows/Linux in various situations. > > These would be excellent tools for systems administrators seeking to > use FreeBSD. I have a presentation (OpenOffice Impress format) at my work to convince=20 companies to use FreeBSD on their servers and / or workstations, which ta= lks=20 about FreeBSD vs. Windows and, to a lesser extent, about FreeBSD vs. Linu= x. I=20 have to ask permission first to make it publicly available, but if you wa= nt=20 it, I'm sure I can get it. Arjan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 13:25:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F28D37B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (milan.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE [137.226.181.144]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA7043E72 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:25:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@unixpages.org) Received: from gondor.middleearth (gondor.middleearth [192.168.1.42]) by milan.hitnet.rwth-aachen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E255FA91E; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:25:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: by gondor.middleearth (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4819C1523A; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:25:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:25:39 +0200 From: Christian Brueffer To: Michael Lucas Cc: Murray Stokely , GB , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me) Message-ID: <20020916202538.GD602@unixpages.org> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020913173803.B92101@freebsdmall.com> <20020913212648.A4465@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020913212648.A4465@blackhelicopters.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 09:26:48PM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:38:03PM -0700, Murray Stokely wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:04:59PM -0500, GB wrote: > > > * Professionally formatted white paper comparing FreeBSD-based solutions > > > to Windows/Linux in various situations. > > Have you seen the BSDi/WindRiver whitepapers that cover this? > > Updating those would be a good place to start. We've handed out many > > many tens of thousands of those documents over the years. > > Where could we get copies of these? And are they available for our > use under a reasonable license? > > > > * FAQs or introductory documents directed at specific groups (again, I > > > keep thinking of utter newbies, those who've dabbled in Linux and the > > > I.T. professional, but there are likely other groups as well). > >... > > Our FAQ and Handbook are our introductory documents. > >... > > Let me put on the writer hat here: > > As a writer, I am lazy. I mean, I'm *really* lazy. Astonishingly > lazy. Appallingly lazy. I write FreeBSD because I already know it. > My articles are all stuff that I have to learn for my day job. > Writing is easier than getting a real job, and some day I hope to do > it full-time so I never have to leave the house again. > > Your average press writer must produce 2000 words a day, or his kids > don't eat. This might not seem like much, but it is when you're > working with an unfamiliar topic. Writers will work with whatever > makes it easiest to produce that 2000 words. At the moment, that > means an incestuous bloodsucking of other Linux stories. > > Keep this in mind at all times when working with the press. > > We have much of the information, but we need to "press-friendly" it. > One day, you will call up www.FreeBSD.org, and see "Media Center" near > the top in big, friendly, candy-like letters. You click there, and > get the Big Media Questions Links: "Who uses FreeBSD?" "Why Use > FreeBSD?" "Conversion Whitepapers". These can easily be links to the > Handbook, or double links -- one to the Handbook, one to a PDF made > specifically for that purpose. The FAQ is too big, and the Handbook > is just out of the question. > > Remember, writers are not nerds. (Well, okay, some of us are. :-) > They do not bloody *want* to well read the FM. > > > > * Some standard press materials/backgrounders that the media could > > > download, such as: > > > -- FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac OS (a one-page table) > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/~murray/OS.pdf > > (based on an earlier comparison by Bob Bruce, and with input from > > the folks on hackers@) > > Bingo! Could we perhaps get source for this PDF, or should we > recreate it and add Solaris, etc? > > > > -- Major sites running FreeBSD > > Our definitive list is maintained in the Handbook, chapter 1. On my > > travels through Asia I've learned of a few other big customers that > > should probably be added to that list. > > Please do. > > > > Again, this is material that's already out there, but the No. 1 rule > > > with the press is that reporters like to have things handed to them -- > > > make it easy to do the research and even easier to write, and you'll > > > have more press than the competition. > > See, Greg is a nicer man than I am. A good PR flack can make "lazy" > sound sensible and useful. :-) > > > I think the way to start is to collect the relevant information on a > > third party web site for now. Once the project achieves critical > > mass, we'll import it to freebsd.org and maintain it from there. > > I am willing to host this temporarily on blackhelicopters.org. It's > bandwidth-limited, but if bandwidth becomes a problem, that will > become my case for migrating it to FreeBSD.org. :-) > > ==ml > There is also a really nice summary of FreeBSD written by Sebastian Benner. It is geared towards FreeBSD newbies and discusses the history of the project, special features (e.g. jail, securelevels, periodic scripts) and offers many references to additional documentation. We had a copy of it laid out at the BSD booth at the Linux Kongress in Cologne, Germany (thanks to Dirk Meyer) and there were a lot of people interested in it. Unfortunately only a german version is available at the moment, but that can be changed :-) Located at: ftp://ftp.fernuni-hagen.de/pub/pdf/urz-broschueren/broschueren/b0050208.pdf - Christian -- http://www.unixpages.org chris@unixpages.org GPG Pub-Key : www.unixpages.org/cbrueffer.asc GPG Fingerprint: 0DB5 8563 2473 C72A A8D1 56EA DAD2 B05D 5F3C 3185 GPG Key ID : DAD2B05D5F3C3185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Sep 16 13:53:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28E037B400 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (anthonychavez.org [166.70.15.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AC643E42 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: from aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8GKrEkG011578; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:53:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from acc@aphrodite.anthonychavez.org) Received: (from acc@localhost) by aphrodite.anthonychavez.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8GKrDAS011577; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:53:13 -0600 From: "Anthony C. Chavez" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: BSD Presentation Message-ID: <20020916205312.GA11524@anthonychavez.org> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG BSD'ers: The BSD User's Group SIG of the Salt Lake Linux User's Group has been offered a booth at the upcoming Consumer & Technology Showcase to be at the Salt Palace on September 24-25. Chris Coleman and I will be giving two talks at the show on the following topics: - BSD in the Enterprise, and - Securing Your Network with BSD. The target audience of this event will be the CEOs and other "upper echelon" individuals (i.e., non-tech types) of the Salt Lake City and surrounding areas. This will be a tremendous opportunity to promote BSD and as such, we'd like to make a big splash. I am putting our presentations together this week and would welcome any comments, suggestions, slides, etc. on the above topics. Our goal is to represent {Free,Net,Open}BSD as a singular entity, so we're keeping things as platform-neutral as possible. Hope to hear from you soon! -- acc@anthonychavez.org http://www.anthonychavez.org/ ``The development of mathematics towards greater precision has led, as is well known, to the formalization of large tracts of it, so that one can prove any theorem using nothing but a few mechanical rules.'' -- Kurt Goedel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Sep 17 15:53:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D4A37B401; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [216.187.105.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC51743E88; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:53:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ECB83F28; Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:54:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: I'm giving a talk about FreeBSD on Sparc Cc: freebsd-sparc@freebsd.org Message-ID: <3D877A64.20931.3E76CA20@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm giving a talk about FreeBSD on Sparc. I guess I better install it first. I'm talking to Ottawa-Carleton Unix User Group (http://www.ocuug.on.ca/) on October 2002. I'm arranging for an Ultra 5 to be available for my use. Anyone already given one of these talks? Basically, I'm going to devote 10 minutes or so to FreeBSD and the Sparc port, then demonstrate the install. -- Dan Langille I'm looking for a computer job: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 1:33: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC6537B404; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.geotax.nl (a213-84-49-42.adsl.xs4all.nl [213.84.49.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC9943E4A; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drexler@mail.geotax.nl) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail.geotax.nl (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g8I8Vtv3087724; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from drexler@mail.geotax.nl) Received: from mail.geotax.nl (localhost.geotax.nl [127.0.0.1]) by mail.geotax.nl (8.12.3/8.11.1av) with ESMTP id g8I8VjDF087659; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from drexler@mail.geotax.nl) Received: (from drexler@localhost) by mail.geotax.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8I8V4vd087468; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:04 +0200 From: Hans Drexler To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, GB Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Message-ID: <20020918103103.A68568@mail.geotax.nl> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org>; from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org on Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: [...] Please let me add my $0.02 for identifying BSD's audiences. There are a lot of small to medium sized companies in the world that can benefit from BSD for day-to-day jobs: . handling e-mail . handling the web-site . file-serving . other business tasks This market is huge, and there are a lot of firms that just don't know there is a good solution for them that will not cost them lots of money. I am not thinking about the desktop applications, although we could add pointers to MacOS X for that! The strenghts of BSD in this market: . reliable . cheap . stable environment (the project will not dissappear next month and has a well thought out development and release cycle.) . easy administration. (even I can do it). If we can make a nice presentation targetted at admins and/or management of these companies, a lot of new users can be coming our way! We should add a few business cases. These should not be techy in style. They should just present a solution to some business needs that are common. This could lead to the development of deployment scenarios that can be implemented by such companies easily. I would be interested in thinking about these issues some more and contributing to efforts in this direction. But english is not my native language... Hans Drexler bsd-advocacy@geotax.nl > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:04:59PM -0500, GB wrote: > > Think of communicating about FreeBSD as a process rather than an event > > -- handling PR, communications or whatever you want to call it as a > > one-shot is sort of like thinking about network security as a one-time > > event: Such efforts are largely destined to fail. > > OK. So, we need some sort of process and checklist for things. PR > event happens, do X, Y, and Z. This checklist should be available as > part of our PR-internal web site. > > The following are my suggestions for answers to Greg's questions. > Please discuss and clarify. > > > Things to define include: > > > > * Who are our key audiences? By this I mean those most likely to adopt > > FreeBSD or influence the decision process. (Having said that, I > > recognize that focusing on potential adopters and their influencers is > > just my gut instinct -- can anyone identify other groups we should be > > reaching out to? Standards-setting bodies? Other *nix communities? Tim > > O'Reilly so he'll send us free books?) > > Our key audiences: > > 1) ISPs: ISPs have long been fans of FreeBSD > 2) Systems Administrators > 3) Security-conscious networks > 4) Embedded systems producers (no GPL to worry them, hurrah!) > > > * What makes FreeBSD different/better for the newbie? For the person > > with a little Linux experience under his/her belt? For the I.T. pro? > > And, while we're at it, what does FreeBSD suck at? (Granted, we may > > think it sucks at nothing, but someone is going to identify weaknesses > > with the OS, and it's sound communications practice to have an answer > > for ever assertion likely to come up.) > > Better for the newbie: > > Better for the Linux convert: > --documentation: there is one true FreeBSD, none of this "this tutorial only good under Purple Snot Linux" crud. > --centralized design team > --ports system > > Better for the professional: > --high performance > --very secure > --simple upgrade process > --very, very debugged > --designed and coded by highly experienced computing professionals > > Places of suckage: > --lack of "wizards" > > > * What are we out in front on? Linux has a foothold in the corporate > > I.T. world, OpenBSD has security and NetBSD has portability. What's our > > niche? Related question: Out of this niche and our identified strengths, > > what's our "elevator story?" (The 1-2 minute spiel what says what > > FreeBSD is, why it's good and why it matters.) > > We are the "friendly BSD". > > Niche: Here, I'm stuck. I use FreeBSD damn near everywhere, except my > crash lab. > > > So far, I've heard mentions of posters and some other materials. Any > > thoughts on how effective (if at all) any of the following might be: > > > > * Professionally formatted white paper comparing FreeBSD-based solutions > > to Windows/Linux in various situations. > > These would be excellent tools for systems administrators seeking to > use FreeBSD. > > > * FAQs or introductory documents directed at specific groups (again, I > > keep thinking of utter newbies, those who've dabbled in Linux and the > > I.T. professional, but there are likely other groups as well). In a > > perfect world, of course, everyone finds Perfect Wisdom by R-ingTFM -- > > but we don't live in a perfect world, so every bit we do to make the > > learning curve easier helps make inroads. > > These FAQs could be kept as "sub-divisions" of the current FAQ. > Perhaps we could somehow "tag" FAQ entries as ones that should be > included in a particular FAQ. > > > * Some standard press materials/backgrounders that the media could > > download, such as: > > > > -- FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac OS (a one-page table) > > -- Major sites running FreeBSD > > -- Uptime/reliability stats > > etc... > > Yes! > > ==ml > > -- > Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 1:33: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC6537B404; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.geotax.nl (a213-84-49-42.adsl.xs4all.nl [213.84.49.42]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC9943E4A; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 01:32:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drexler@mail.geotax.nl) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail.geotax.nl (8.12.3/8.11.1) id g8I8Vtv3087724; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from drexler@mail.geotax.nl) Received: from mail.geotax.nl (localhost.geotax.nl [127.0.0.1]) by mail.geotax.nl (8.12.3/8.11.1av) with ESMTP id g8I8VjDF087659; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from drexler@mail.geotax.nl) Received: (from drexler@localhost) by mail.geotax.nl (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8I8V4vd087468; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:31:04 +0200 From: Hans Drexler To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, GB Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Message-ID: <20020918103103.A68568@mail.geotax.nl> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org>; from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org on Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: [...] Please let me add my $0.02 for identifying BSD's audiences. There are a lot of small to medium sized companies in the world that can benefit from BSD for day-to-day jobs: . handling e-mail . handling the web-site . file-serving . other business tasks This market is huge, and there are a lot of firms that just don't know there is a good solution for them that will not cost them lots of money. I am not thinking about the desktop applications, although we could add pointers to MacOS X for that! The strenghts of BSD in this market: . reliable . cheap . stable environment (the project will not dissappear next month and has a well thought out development and release cycle.) . easy administration. (even I can do it). If we can make a nice presentation targetted at admins and/or management of these companies, a lot of new users can be coming our way! We should add a few business cases. These should not be techy in style. They should just present a solution to some business needs that are common. This could lead to the development of deployment scenarios that can be implemented by such companies easily. I would be interested in thinking about these issues some more and contributing to efforts in this direction. But english is not my native language... Hans Drexler bsd-advocacy@geotax.nl > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:04:59PM -0500, GB wrote: > > Think of communicating about FreeBSD as a process rather than an event > > -- handling PR, communications or whatever you want to call it as a > > one-shot is sort of like thinking about network security as a one-time > > event: Such efforts are largely destined to fail. > > OK. So, we need some sort of process and checklist for things. PR > event happens, do X, Y, and Z. This checklist should be available as > part of our PR-internal web site. > > The following are my suggestions for answers to Greg's questions. > Please discuss and clarify. > > > Things to define include: > > > > * Who are our key audiences? By this I mean those most likely to adopt > > FreeBSD or influence the decision process. (Having said that, I > > recognize that focusing on potential adopters and their influencers is > > just my gut instinct -- can anyone identify other groups we should be > > reaching out to? Standards-setting bodies? Other *nix communities? Tim > > O'Reilly so he'll send us free books?) > > Our key audiences: > > 1) ISPs: ISPs have long been fans of FreeBSD > 2) Systems Administrators > 3) Security-conscious networks > 4) Embedded systems producers (no GPL to worry them, hurrah!) > > > * What makes FreeBSD different/better for the newbie? For the person > > with a little Linux experience under his/her belt? For the I.T. pro? > > And, while we're at it, what does FreeBSD suck at? (Granted, we may > > think it sucks at nothing, but someone is going to identify weaknesses > > with the OS, and it's sound communications practice to have an answer > > for ever assertion likely to come up.) > > Better for the newbie: > > Better for the Linux convert: > --documentation: there is one true FreeBSD, none of this "this tutorial only good under Purple Snot Linux" crud. > --centralized design team > --ports system > > Better for the professional: > --high performance > --very secure > --simple upgrade process > --very, very debugged > --designed and coded by highly experienced computing professionals > > Places of suckage: > --lack of "wizards" > > > * What are we out in front on? Linux has a foothold in the corporate > > I.T. world, OpenBSD has security and NetBSD has portability. What's our > > niche? Related question: Out of this niche and our identified strengths, > > what's our "elevator story?" (The 1-2 minute spiel what says what > > FreeBSD is, why it's good and why it matters.) > > We are the "friendly BSD". > > Niche: Here, I'm stuck. I use FreeBSD damn near everywhere, except my > crash lab. > > > So far, I've heard mentions of posters and some other materials. Any > > thoughts on how effective (if at all) any of the following might be: > > > > * Professionally formatted white paper comparing FreeBSD-based solutions > > to Windows/Linux in various situations. > > These would be excellent tools for systems administrators seeking to > use FreeBSD. > > > * FAQs or introductory documents directed at specific groups (again, I > > keep thinking of utter newbies, those who've dabbled in Linux and the > > I.T. professional, but there are likely other groups as well). In a > > perfect world, of course, everyone finds Perfect Wisdom by R-ingTFM -- > > but we don't live in a perfect world, so every bit we do to make the > > learning curve easier helps make inroads. > > These FAQs could be kept as "sub-divisions" of the current FAQ. > Perhaps we could somehow "tag" FAQ entries as ones that should be > included in a particular FAQ. > > > * Some standard press materials/backgrounders that the media could > > download, such as: > > > > -- FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac OS (a one-page table) > > -- Major sites running FreeBSD > > -- Uptime/reliability stats > > etc... > > Yes! > > ==ml > > -- > Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > > Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 5: 1:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F7D37B401; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 05:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E66C43E9C; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 05:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rootman22@attbi.com) Received: from C595663-A ([12.254.218.35]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020918120108.NNAS15519.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@C595663-A>; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:01:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) From: Joe Warner To: Hans Drexler Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org, GB In-Reply-To: <20020918103103.A68568@mail.geotax.nl> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> <20020918103103.A68568@mail.geotax.nl> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 18 Sep 2002 06:00:51 -0600 Message-Id: <1032350452.335.30.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >We should add a few business cases. This is key. It would be good to get some statistics that list who is using FreeBSD and how it's being used. It looks like this site is still being maintained and could be a useful tool: http://www.bsdcounter.org/ > This market is huge, and there are a lot of firms that just don't know > there is a good solution for them that will not cost them lots of money. I agree with this. A good example is software development. Most software companies rely on good change management/version control=20 systems. Commercial change management software can be expensive in both the price of the software and the hardware required to run it. FreeBSD was born to run CVS! On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 02:31, Hans Drexler wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > [...] >=20 > Please let me add my $0.02 for identifying BSD's audiences. There are a > lot of small to medium sized companies in the world that can benefit > from BSD for day-to-day jobs: > . handling e-mail > . handling the web-site > . file-serving > . other business tasks > This market is huge, and there are a lot of firms that just don't know > there is a good solution for them that will not cost them lots of money. > I am not thinking about the desktop applications, although we could > add pointers to MacOS X for that! >=20 > The strenghts of BSD in this market: > . reliable > . cheap > . stable environment (the project will not dissappear next month and has > a well thought out development and release cycle.) > . easy administration. (even I can do it). > If we can make a nice presentation targetted at admins and/or management > of these companies, a lot of new users can be coming our way! We should > add a few business cases. These should not be techy in style. They > should just present a solution to some business needs that are common. >=20 > This could lead to the development of deployment scenarios that can be > implemented by such companies easily. >=20 > I would be interested in thinking about these issues some more and contri= buting > to efforts in this direction. But english is not my native language... >=20 > Hans Drexler > bsd-advocacy@geotax.nl >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:04:59PM -0500, GB wrote: > > > Think of communicating about FreeBSD as a process rather than an even= t > > > -- handling PR, communications or whatever you want to call it as a > > > one-shot is sort of like thinking about network security as a one-tim= e > > > event: Such efforts are largely destined to fail. > >=20 > > OK. So, we need some sort of process and checklist for things. PR > > event happens, do X, Y, and Z. This checklist should be available as > > part of our PR-internal web site. > >=20 > > The following are my suggestions for answers to Greg's questions. > > Please discuss and clarify. > >=20 > > > Things to define include: > > >=20 > > > * Who are our key audiences? By this I mean those most likely to adop= t > > > FreeBSD or influence the decision process. (Having said that, I > > > recognize that focusing on potential adopters and their influencers i= s > > > just my gut instinct -- can anyone identify other groups we should be > > > reaching out to? Standards-setting bodies? Other *nix communities? Ti= m > > > O'Reilly so he'll send us free books?) > >=20 > > Our key audiences: > >=20 > > 1) ISPs: ISPs have long been fans of FreeBSD > > 2) Systems Administrators > > 3) Security-conscious networks > > 4) Embedded systems producers (no GPL to worry them, hurrah!) > >=20 >=20 > > > * What makes FreeBSD different/better for the newbie? For the person > > > with a little Linux experience under his/her belt? For the I.T. pro? > > > And, while we're at it, what does FreeBSD suck at? (Granted, we may > > > think it sucks at nothing, but someone is going to identify weaknesse= s > > > with the OS, and it's sound communications practice to have an answer > > > for ever assertion likely to come up.) > >=20 > > Better for the newbie: > >=20 > > Better for the Linux convert: > > --documentation: there is one true FreeBSD, none of this "this tutorial= only good under Purple Snot Linux" crud. > > --centralized design team > > --ports system > >=20 > > Better for the professional: > > --high performance > > --very secure > > --simple upgrade process > > --very, very debugged > > --designed and coded by highly experienced computing professionals > >=20 > > Places of suckage: > > --lack of "wizards" > >=20 > > > * What are we out in front on? Linux has a foothold in the corporate > > > I.T. world, OpenBSD has security and NetBSD has portability. What's o= ur > > > niche? Related question: Out of this niche and our identified strengt= hs, > > > what's our "elevator story?" (The 1-2 minute spiel what says what > > > FreeBSD is, why it's good and why it matters.) > >=20 > > We are the "friendly BSD". > >=20 > > Niche: Here, I'm stuck. I use FreeBSD damn near everywhere, except my > > crash lab. > >=20 > > > So far, I've heard mentions of posters and some other materials. Any > > > thoughts on how effective (if at all) any of the following might be: > > >=20 > > > * Professionally formatted white paper comparing FreeBSD-based soluti= ons > > > to Windows/Linux in various situations. > >=20 > > These would be excellent tools for systems administrators seeking to > > use FreeBSD. > >=20 > > > * FAQs or introductory documents directed at specific groups (again, = I > > > keep thinking of utter newbies, those who've dabbled in Linux and the > > > I.T. professional, but there are likely other groups as well). In a > > > perfect world, of course, everyone finds Perfect Wisdom by R-ingTFM -= - > > > but we don't live in a perfect world, so every bit we do to make the > > > learning curve easier helps make inroads. > >=20 > > These FAQs could be kept as "sub-divisions" of the current FAQ. > > Perhaps we could somehow "tag" FAQ entries as ones that should be > > included in a particular FAQ. > >=20 > > > * Some standard press materials/backgrounders that the media could > > > download, such as: > > >=20 > > > -- FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac OS (a one-page table) > > > -- Major sites running FreeBSD > > > -- Uptime/reliability stats > > > etc... > >=20 > > Yes! > >=20 > > =3D=3Dml > >=20 > > --=20 > > Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > >=20 > > Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ > >=20 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --=20 Extract from Official Sweepstakes Rules: NO PURCHASE REQUIRED TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE To claim your prize without purchase, do the following: (a) Carefully cut out your computer-printed name and address from upper right hand corner of the Prize Claim Form. (b) Affix computer-printed name and address -- with glue or cellophane tape (no staples or paper clips) -- to a 3x5 inch index card. (c) Also cut out the "No" paragraph (lower left hand corner of Prize Claim Form) and affix it to the 3x5 card below your address label. (d) Then print on your 3x5 card, above your computer-printed name and address the words "CARTER & VAN PEEL SWEEPSTAKES" (Use all capital letters.) (e) Finally place 3x5 card (without bending) into a plain envelope [NOTE: do NOT use the the Official Prize Claim and CVP Perfume Reply Envelope or you may be disqualified], and mail to: CVP, Box 1320, Westbury, NY 11595. Print this address correctly. Comply with above instructions carefully and completely or you may be disqualified from receiving your prize. --=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA9iGryy8v4Vaw+EcoRAn4FAKCG3xjj+uToVw8J8wAIrM3KRNdppgCeNHxH iyM3mcR3tCmfQVLXr0dOGEk= =4uom -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 5: 1:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F7D37B401; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 05:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc01.attbi.com (sccrmhc01.attbi.com [204.127.202.61]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E66C43E9C; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 05:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rootman22@attbi.com) Received: from C595663-A ([12.254.218.35]) by sccrmhc01.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020918120108.NNAS15519.sccrmhc01.attbi.com@C595663-A>; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:01:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) From: Joe Warner To: Hans Drexler Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org, GB In-Reply-To: <20020918103103.A68568@mail.geotax.nl> References: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <006c01c25b71$9adf6940$6e01a8c0@CITYMOUSE> <20020916084359.B20974@blackhelicopters.org> <20020918103103.A68568@mail.geotax.nl> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv" X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 18 Sep 2002 06:00:51 -0600 Message-Id: <1032350452.335.30.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >We should add a few business cases. This is key. It would be good to get some statistics that list who is using FreeBSD and how it's being used. It looks like this site is still being maintained and could be a useful tool: http://www.bsdcounter.org/ > This market is huge, and there are a lot of firms that just don't know > there is a good solution for them that will not cost them lots of money. I agree with this. A good example is software development. Most software companies rely on good change management/version control=20 systems. Commercial change management software can be expensive in both the price of the software and the hardware required to run it. FreeBSD was born to run CVS! On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 02:31, Hans Drexler wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 08:44:00AM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: > [...] >=20 > Please let me add my $0.02 for identifying BSD's audiences. There are a > lot of small to medium sized companies in the world that can benefit > from BSD for day-to-day jobs: > . handling e-mail > . handling the web-site > . file-serving > . other business tasks > This market is huge, and there are a lot of firms that just don't know > there is a good solution for them that will not cost them lots of money. > I am not thinking about the desktop applications, although we could > add pointers to MacOS X for that! >=20 > The strenghts of BSD in this market: > . reliable > . cheap > . stable environment (the project will not dissappear next month and has > a well thought out development and release cycle.) > . easy administration. (even I can do it). > If we can make a nice presentation targetted at admins and/or management > of these companies, a lot of new users can be coming our way! We should > add a few business cases. These should not be techy in style. They > should just present a solution to some business needs that are common. >=20 > This could lead to the development of deployment scenarios that can be > implemented by such companies easily. >=20 > I would be interested in thinking about these issues some more and contri= buting > to efforts in this direction. But english is not my native language... >=20 > Hans Drexler > bsd-advocacy@geotax.nl >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 05:04:59PM -0500, GB wrote: > > > Think of communicating about FreeBSD as a process rather than an even= t > > > -- handling PR, communications or whatever you want to call it as a > > > one-shot is sort of like thinking about network security as a one-tim= e > > > event: Such efforts are largely destined to fail. > >=20 > > OK. So, we need some sort of process and checklist for things. PR > > event happens, do X, Y, and Z. This checklist should be available as > > part of our PR-internal web site. > >=20 > > The following are my suggestions for answers to Greg's questions. > > Please discuss and clarify. > >=20 > > > Things to define include: > > >=20 > > > * Who are our key audiences? By this I mean those most likely to adop= t > > > FreeBSD or influence the decision process. (Having said that, I > > > recognize that focusing on potential adopters and their influencers i= s > > > just my gut instinct -- can anyone identify other groups we should be > > > reaching out to? Standards-setting bodies? Other *nix communities? Ti= m > > > O'Reilly so he'll send us free books?) > >=20 > > Our key audiences: > >=20 > > 1) ISPs: ISPs have long been fans of FreeBSD > > 2) Systems Administrators > > 3) Security-conscious networks > > 4) Embedded systems producers (no GPL to worry them, hurrah!) > >=20 >=20 > > > * What makes FreeBSD different/better for the newbie? For the person > > > with a little Linux experience under his/her belt? For the I.T. pro? > > > And, while we're at it, what does FreeBSD suck at? (Granted, we may > > > think it sucks at nothing, but someone is going to identify weaknesse= s > > > with the OS, and it's sound communications practice to have an answer > > > for ever assertion likely to come up.) > >=20 > > Better for the newbie: > >=20 > > Better for the Linux convert: > > --documentation: there is one true FreeBSD, none of this "this tutorial= only good under Purple Snot Linux" crud. > > --centralized design team > > --ports system > >=20 > > Better for the professional: > > --high performance > > --very secure > > --simple upgrade process > > --very, very debugged > > --designed and coded by highly experienced computing professionals > >=20 > > Places of suckage: > > --lack of "wizards" > >=20 > > > * What are we out in front on? Linux has a foothold in the corporate > > > I.T. world, OpenBSD has security and NetBSD has portability. What's o= ur > > > niche? Related question: Out of this niche and our identified strengt= hs, > > > what's our "elevator story?" (The 1-2 minute spiel what says what > > > FreeBSD is, why it's good and why it matters.) > >=20 > > We are the "friendly BSD". > >=20 > > Niche: Here, I'm stuck. I use FreeBSD damn near everywhere, except my > > crash lab. > >=20 > > > So far, I've heard mentions of posters and some other materials. Any > > > thoughts on how effective (if at all) any of the following might be: > > >=20 > > > * Professionally formatted white paper comparing FreeBSD-based soluti= ons > > > to Windows/Linux in various situations. > >=20 > > These would be excellent tools for systems administrators seeking to > > use FreeBSD. > >=20 > > > * FAQs or introductory documents directed at specific groups (again, = I > > > keep thinking of utter newbies, those who've dabbled in Linux and the > > > I.T. professional, but there are likely other groups as well). In a > > > perfect world, of course, everyone finds Perfect Wisdom by R-ingTFM -= - > > > but we don't live in a perfect world, so every bit we do to make the > > > learning curve easier helps make inroads. > >=20 > > These FAQs could be kept as "sub-divisions" of the current FAQ. > > Perhaps we could somehow "tag" FAQ entries as ones that should be > > included in a particular FAQ. > >=20 > > > * Some standard press materials/backgrounders that the media could > > > download, such as: > > >=20 > > > -- FreeBSD vs. Linux vs. Windows vs. Mac OS (a one-page table) > > > -- Major sites running FreeBSD > > > -- Uptime/reliability stats > > > etc... > >=20 > > Yes! > >=20 > > =3D=3Dml > >=20 > > --=20 > > Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons > >=20 > > Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ > >=20 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message --=20 Extract from Official Sweepstakes Rules: NO PURCHASE REQUIRED TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE To claim your prize without purchase, do the following: (a) Carefully cut out your computer-printed name and address from upper right hand corner of the Prize Claim Form. (b) Affix computer-printed name and address -- with glue or cellophane tape (no staples or paper clips) -- to a 3x5 inch index card. (c) Also cut out the "No" paragraph (lower left hand corner of Prize Claim Form) and affix it to the 3x5 card below your address label. (d) Then print on your 3x5 card, above your computer-printed name and address the words "CARTER & VAN PEEL SWEEPSTAKES" (Use all capital letters.) (e) Finally place 3x5 card (without bending) into a plain envelope [NOTE: do NOT use the the Official Prize Claim and CVP Perfume Reply Envelope or you may be disqualified], and mail to: CVP, Box 1320, Westbury, NY 11595. Print this address correctly. Comply with above instructions carefully and completely or you may be disqualified from receiving your prize. --=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA9iGryy8v4Vaw+EcoRAn4FAKCG3xjj+uToVw8J8wAIrM3KRNdppgCeNHxH iyM3mcR3tCmfQVLXr0dOGEk= =4uom -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-D97odRG2Jt2TWkUknlPv-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 6:10:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2CC37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11802.mail.yahoo.com (web11802.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BA0543E6E for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20020918131020.742.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.96.37] by web11802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 PDT Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Haikal Saadh Reply-To: haikal@subdimension.com Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) To: Joe Warner , Hans Drexler Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org, GB In-Reply-To: <1032350452.335.30.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I agree with this. A good example is software development. Most > software companies rely on good change management/version control > systems. Commercial change management software can be expensive in > both the price of the software and the hardware required to run it. > FreeBSD was born to run CVS! Didn't lokigames use FreeBSD develop linux ports of Unreal Tourney and others, or am I being delusional? I tried to dig up the link, but came up empty handed. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 6:10:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E337537B404 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11802.mail.yahoo.com (web11802.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.156]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 39FA343E6A for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wyldephyre2@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20020918131020.742.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.96.37] by web11802.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 PDT Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 06:10:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Haikal Saadh Reply-To: haikal@subdimension.com Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) To: Joe Warner , Hans Drexler Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, advocacy@freebsd.org, GB In-Reply-To: <1032350452.335.30.camel@C595663-A.attbi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I agree with this. A good example is software development. Most > software companies rely on good change management/version control > systems. Commercial change management software can be expensive in > both the price of the software and the hardware required to run it. > FreeBSD was born to run CVS! Didn't lokigames use FreeBSD develop linux ports of Unreal Tourney and others, or am I being delusional? I tried to dig up the link, but came up empty handed. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 9:27:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B7B37B401 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sherline.net (sherline.net [216.203.226.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A0F743E65 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremiah@sherline.com) Received: (qmail 21518 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2002 16:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cptnhosedonkey) (68.8.232.213) by sherline.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 2002 16:27:38 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c25f30$4f553b90$0200a8c0@cptnhosedonkey> From: "Jeremiah Gowdy" To: , "Joe Warner" , "Hans Drexler" Cc: , , "GB" References: <20020918131020.742.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:27:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I agree with this. A good example is software development. Most > > software companies rely on good change management/version control > > systems. Commercial change management software can be expensive in > > both the price of the software and the hardware required to run it. > > FreeBSD was born to run CVS! > > Didn't lokigames use FreeBSD develop linux ports of Unreal Tourney > and others, or am I being delusional? > > I tried to dig up the link, but came up empty handed. That's because they're out of business. I don't think they used FreeBSD, because I spoke with them on many occations on very simple changes that would allow proper FreeBSD ports of the games rather than Linux emulation. No luck there, but I did run Linux emulated UT Server for quite some time :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Sep 18 9:27:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D8A37B404 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sherline.net (sherline.net [216.203.226.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A6C343E6A for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jeremiah@sherline.com) Received: (qmail 21518 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2002 16:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cptnhosedonkey) (68.8.232.213) by sherline.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 2002 16:27:38 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c25f30$4f553b90$0200a8c0@cptnhosedonkey> From: "Jeremiah Gowdy" To: , "Joe Warner" , "Hans Drexler" Cc: , , "GB" References: <20020918131020.742.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Answering the Questions (was Re: FreeBSD PR (long, rambling -- bear with me)) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 09:27:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I agree with this. A good example is software development. Most > > software companies rely on good change management/version control > > systems. Commercial change management software can be expensive in > > both the price of the software and the hardware required to run it. > > FreeBSD was born to run CVS! > > Didn't lokigames use FreeBSD develop linux ports of Unreal Tourney > and others, or am I being delusional? > > I tried to dig up the link, but came up empty handed. That's because they're out of business. I don't think they used FreeBSD, because I spoke with them on many occations on very simple changes that would allow proper FreeBSD ports of the games rather than Linux emulation. No luck there, but I did run Linux emulated UT Server for quite some time :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 19 2:21:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E91C37B401 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 02:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from piwebs.com (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D969443E8A for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 02:21:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 9751 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2002 09:21:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amd760.piwebs.com) (192.168.0.114) by 0 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2002 09:21:48 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: Michael Lucas Subject: In the Press Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:21:39 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org References: <20020913124852.A951@blackhelicopters.org> <200209132021.39558.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> In-Reply-To: <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200209191121.39421.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm trying to do some work on the 'In the Press' page (although I think w= e=20 *should* concentrate on getting the press people to actually write articl= es=20 that then can appear on this page :)), but I'm a little confused by this=20 comment in press.xml: Is there anything I should do with this? Best regards, Arjan On Friday 13 September 2002 20:39, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 08:21:39PM +0200, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > > *yes* this sounds good! I also think that a media section on the webs= ite, > > as Greg proposes, sounds like a very good idea. Where do we begin? Wh= at's > > the first or most important thing that should be done? > > First thing that should be done: > > Fix the newsflash page, so that "FreeBSD PR Director Quits!" is not > near the top of the list. Get out your text processor and get to > work. You may get a shiny new email address out of it. :-) > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 19 2:40:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3673137B401 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 02:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (geburah.blackhelicopters.org [209.69.178.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADEF043E6E for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 02:40:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: from blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g8J9erEp043851; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 05:40:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by blackhelicopters.org (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g8J9erbW043850; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 05:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 05:40:53 -0400 From: Michael Lucas To: Arjan van Leeuwen Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: In the Press Message-ID: <20020919054053.A43834@blackhelicopters.org> References: <20020913124852.A951@blackhelicopters.org> <200209132021.39558.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20020913143941.A2346@blackhelicopters.org> <200209191121.39421.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200209191121.39421.avleeuwen@piwebs.com>; from avleeuwen@piwebs.com on Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +0200, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > I'm trying to do some work on the 'In the Press' page (although I think we > *should* concentrate on getting the press people to actually write articles > that then can appear on this page :)), but I'm a little confused by this > comment in press.xml: > > That's the committers' problem; all we do is cut-and-paste the article into a text file. ==ml -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Sep 19 4:16:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EA637B401 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 04:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from piwebs.com (t-indiv5-88.athome.tue.nl [131.155.241.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 457B643E3B for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 04:16:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from avleeuwen@piwebs.com) Received: (qmail 10133 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2002 11:16:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amd760.piwebs.com) (192.168.0.114) by 0 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2002 11:16:44 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Arjan van Leeuwen To: Michael Lucas Subject: Re: In the Press Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:16:35 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.org References: <20020913124852.A951@blackhelicopters.org> <200209191121.39421.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> <20020919054053.A43834@blackhelicopters.org> In-Reply-To: <20020919054053.A43834@blackhelicopters.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200209191316.35305.avleeuwen@piwebs.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG OK, thanks. Submitted www/42952. Arjan On Thursday 19 September 2002 11:40, Michael Lucas wrote: > On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +0200, Arjan van Leeuwen wrote: > > I'm trying to do some work on the 'In the Press' page (although I thi= nk > > we *should* concentrate on getting the press people to actually write > > articles that then can appear on this page :)), but I'm a little conf= used > > by this comment in press.xml: > > > > > > That's the committers' problem; all we do is cut-and-paste the article > into a text file. > > =3D=3Dml To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 20 9:23:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9C837B401; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B074A43E75; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:23:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fwd11.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17sQZG-0003UH-00; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:23:46 +0200 Received: from jhs.muc.de (520006753247-0001@[217.235.123.132]) by fmrl11.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 17sQZ0-0WJnO4C; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:23:30 +0200 Received: from flip.jhs.private (flip.jhs.private [192.168.91.24]) by jhs.muc.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8KFPDR18543; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:25:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by flip.jhs.private (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g8KFOgR79586; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:24:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:24:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <200209201524.g8KFOgR79586@flip.jhs.private> To: advocacy@freebsd.org Cc: Andreas.Lohrum@tngtech.com, "Gary Jennejohn" Subject: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD. From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: Vector Systems Ltd, Munich Unix & System Engineering Consultancy X-Web: http://berklix.com/~jhs/ Fcc: sent-mail X-Sender: 520006753247-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG _Cheap_ conferences _Not_ at hotels would help BSD promotion ! Un-necessarily expensive conferences impede participation & interest in BSD. 20 years ago: - Unix was commercial, but - Unix conferences were at Univesities, cheap to attend, & if an employer wouldn't pay, you could book a few day's holiday, & pay your own way. Local students & ex students of whichever University campus - Not Hotel - where the conferences were held, could also often smuggle in free for a few lectures, boosting interest :-) Now: - The software's free, but - The conference fees are prohibitively expensive : Facilities are provided by expensive hotels speialising in providing luxury facilities at high prices. Indicators of Bloat can also include `Partner Programmes' ( It didn't need money to a partner programme, when a group of us plus assorted girlfriends organised our own picnic in a park at the European Unix User Group in Paris in '82; & it cost nothing when German Unix User Group conference attendees were invited to join the Munich BSD group's monthly drinks session aprox 3 years ago ). - Bloated company paid conference fees is not the way it has to be. A cheaper more inclusive solution for some conferences is: - Back to the Universities ! Dump the hotels ! - Use University campuses, lecture theatres & student halls of residence & student campus bars during student holidays. - Get a free or near free lecture room from a University during a vaction, reward their generosity with equally free or near free lecture hall entry to students & local ex students & organisers of the host college, & give the student halls of residence the profit of our overnight accomadation, food, & coffee/ beer bar income. - If local organisers are needed, let students do it, they'll be more grateful for any money, be cheaper & likely more intelligent & or more commited to the technical agenda of the conference, than random hotel conference employees. - Keep it _Cheap_ so that people who aren't sure yet if they're interested in BSD, can still drop by for a few lectures. - Keep it _Cheap_ so people not flush with cash can afford to attend. - Keep it _Cheap_ to not be too far out of kilter with _Free_ software. - Further suggestions at http://yetanother.org/ http://www.yapc.org/venue-reqs.txt Heavy fees tilt the balance & possibly contributory worth of who can attend: Students: Will only attend if cheap, may then discover BSD, write code for BSD, &/or take a BSD Cdrom to install in new companies during holidays, part time jobs, etc, seeding the BSD market. Unemployed & under-employed programmers: (yes there are some, see jobs@freebsd list if in doubt ) They will have some time on their hands, but not much money to pay bloated conference fees on top of travel/accom. costs) Employees of firms on hard times: Probably also find it hard to justify heavy conference fees, yet their employers would be more receptive to free BSD software/solutions. Employees of firms doing well: Probably find it easiest to get conference fee travel & accomodation paid, yet harder to get employers to use BSD (after all, one attraction of Free Software is that you avoid wasting money buying Microsoft). Some may say: "Cheap venues won't impress businessmen" - (A laudable target ! they're my consultancy customers :-) But I don't believe we should burden all our BSD conferences with expensive fees on that argument. At least do what German Unix User Group http://www.guug.de does: alternate [slightly cheaper?] (spring technical) & more expensive (Autumn full blown) conferences. "We get people anyway, there's no problem" would be complacently wrong: BSD remains fringe, & high conference fees can only deter those with an initialy casual / light interest. (the fees certainly deter me, a dedicated Unix person for 20+ years.) To open one's mouth, is of course to be invited to contribute to a solution :-) So if there's serious interest in a European BSD conference in Munich, I'd willing to investigate what the local universities could offer during holiday periods. If people want another EuroBSD in the UK, University of Kent at Canterbury does a roaring trade in vacation conferences, & was one of the first Unix centres in the UK, & would probably be happy to seriously way underbid previous BSD hotel venues such as Brighton. Copious public terminals of course, I suspect all study bedrooms on campus are net- wired by now. http://www.ukc.ac.uk/hospitality/holiday/bedbreakfast.html 20 pound / night http://www.ukc.ac.uk/hospitality/conference/availability.html 57.5 per night (Day delegates 25 inc VAT) Presumably many other Universities around the world offer similar good deals during student vactions. Compare prices above with last California or next EuroBSD, Hotel based pricing: http://www.eurobsdcon2002.org/hotelreservation.html EUR 130 per night (excl. breakfast and excl. 5% city tax) + American breakfast - EUR 16 less hotel bulk pre-book discount http://www.eurobsdcon2002.org/registration.html 250 Euro for 3 day conference booked before October 18th Note the UKC University price may or may not have a discount negotiable, I don't know, not tried, but UKC price _Includes_ cost of conference facilities, so only extra fees BSD volunteer organisers would need to collect would be out of pocket phone charges, & maybe more cash for guest speaker accom. & travel if desired. Exchange Rate Aprox: 3 Euros = 3 US Dollar = 2 Pounds Sterling (UK) Comparison: Hotel 3 * 146 * 1.05 guess discount 0.7 + 250 Euro = 570 Euro Uni. 3 * ( 57 + 5 for org. expenses + 15) * 1.5 exchange = 340 Euro 15 = a guess at extra surchage to subsidise guest speaker travel &/or accomodation. Accomodation in Univesities might be more basic, but wher it really counts: tiered lecture theaters & net access, they'll be way ahead ! Plus ... Aprox. Half Price !! Lets have some BSD conference in Univesities, not Hotels ! Julian Stacey jhs@berklix.com Computer Sys. Eng. & Unix Consultant, Munich Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 20 10:21:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BE1D37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06E643E65 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ziggy@panix.com) Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [166.84.1.2]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A58488F9; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ziggy@localhost) by panix2.panix.com (8.11.6/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id g8KHL9n16434; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:21:09 -0400 From: Adam Turoff To: Julian Stacey Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD. Message-ID: <20020920172109.GF5962@panix.com> References: <200209201524.g8KFOgR79586@flip.jhs.private> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200209201524.g8KFOgR79586@flip.jhs.private> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 05:24:42PM +0200, Julian Stacey wrote: > _Cheap_ conferences _Not_ at hotels would help BSD promotion ! > Un-necessarily expensive conferences impede participation & interest in BSD. Yet Another Society (http://www.yetanother.org/) has been doing this in the Perl community since 1999. It's been quite successful, with two conferences per year (Europe and eastern North America) for the last few years. The EuroBSD Con last September was somewhat similar, but held in a hotel IIRC for various reasons. (Nik? Care to comment?) The model is there. It's been proven successful in at least one community. It'll happen with BSD, but the limiting factors are (1) knowledge about conference planning, and (2) volunteers to actually do the work of hosting a conference. ;-) Z. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 20 11:38: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B8C37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [216.187.105.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7C843E75 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:38:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9160F3F3F; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:37:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Julian Stacey" Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:38:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD. Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <3D8B3302.12274.4CFFF43D@localhost> In-reply-to: <200209201524.g8KFOgR79586@flip.jhs.private> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 20 Sep 2002 at 17:24, Julian Stacey wrote: > _Cheap_ conferences _Not_ at hotels would help BSD promotion ! > Un-necessarily expensive conferences impede participation & interest in BSD. I look forward to details about your conference. You are planning one aren't you? -- Dan Langille I'm looking for a computer job: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 20 18: 0:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2B437B401 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtbaker.tfm.com (mtbaker.tfm.com [192.231.224.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4294843E42 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from db@db.net) Received: (from db@localhost) by mtbaker.tfm.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g8L0xfw08505; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Diane Bruce Message-Id: <200209210059.g8L0xfw08505@mtbaker.tfm.com> Subject: Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD. To: dan@langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jhs@berklix.com (Julian Stacey), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3D8B3302.12274.4CFFF43D@localhost> from "Dan Langille" at Sep 20, 2002 02:38:58 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dan Langille says: > > On 20 Sep 2002 at 17:24, Julian Stacey wrote: > > > _Cheap_ conferences _Not_ at hotels would help BSD promotion ! > > Un-necessarily expensive conferences impede participation & interest in BSD. > > I look forward to details about your conference. You are planning > one aren't you? So next year when OLS is having their big expensive conference at the Ottawa Congress Centre, we could rent a few rooms at Carleton and have an alternative freebsd conference instead? > -- > Dan Langille > I'm looking for a computer job: > http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > P.S. I'm game if you are. -- Diane Bruce, http://www.db.net/~db db@db.net --- aphorisms are ephemeral, speling mistakes are not. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 20 18: 5:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F267537B401 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fep1.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB4943E6E for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dlavigne6@cogeco.ca) Received: from x1-6-00-80-c8-3a-b8-46.kico2.on.cogeco.ca (d226-39-211.home.cgocable.net [24.226.39.211]) by fep1.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834075F67; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 21:06:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Dru X-X-Sender: dlavigne6@dhcp-6-59 To: Diane Bruce Cc: Dan Langille , Julian Stacey , Subject: Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD. In-Reply-To: <200209210059.g8L0xfw08505@mtbaker.tfm.com> Message-ID: <20020920210533.D634-100000@dhcp-6-59> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Diane Bruce wrote: > Dan Langille says: > > > > On 20 Sep 2002 at 17:24, Julian Stacey wrote: > > > > > _Cheap_ conferences _Not_ at hotels would help BSD promotion ! > > > Un-necessarily expensive conferences impede participation & interest in BSD. > > > > I look forward to details about your conference. You are planning > > one aren't you? > > So next year when OLS is having their big expensive conference > at the Ottawa Congress Centre, we could rent a few rooms at Carleton > and have an alternative freebsd conference instead? Please, please, please do with cherry on top :) I'm willing to help. Dru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Sep 20 18:26:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21EA37B401 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtbaker.tfm.com (mtbaker.tfm.com [192.231.224.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5534E43E65 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from db@db.net) Received: (from db@localhost) by mtbaker.tfm.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g8L1QVe08723; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:26:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Diane Bruce Message-Id: <200209210126.g8L1QVe08723@mtbaker.tfm.com> Subject: Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD. To: dlavigne6@cogeco.ca (Dru) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: db@db.net (Diane Bruce), dan@langille.org (Dan Langille), jhs@berklix.com (Julian Stacey), advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020920210533.D634-100000@dhcp-6-59> from "Dru" at Sep 20, 2002 09:06:58 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dru says: > > > ... > > Please, please, please do with cherry on top :) > > I'm willing to help. Ok. I will. I know years ago old Maplecon (SciFi) conventions were held at Carleton. I will look into it ASAP. Where are you in Ontario? > > Dru > -- Diane Bruce, http://www.db.net/~db db@db.net --- aphorisms are ephemeral, speling mistakes are not. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Sep 21 4:50:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E3737B401 for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crf-consulting.co.uk (pc-80-194-99-103-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [80.194.99.103]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05D843E6A for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:50:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@crf-consulting.co.uk) Received: from clan.crf-consulting.co.uk (clan.nothing-going-on.org [192.168.1.20]) by crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8LBirTk086297; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:44:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@catkin) Received: from clan.nothing-going-on.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clan.crf-consulting.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8LBirhB033329; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:44:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik@clan.nothing-going-on.org) Received: (from nik@localhost) by clan.nothing-going-on.org (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g8LBiqVU033328; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:44:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:44:52 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Adam Turoff Cc: Julian Stacey , advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD. Message-ID: <20020921114452.GA33311@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <200209201524.g8KFOgR79586@flip.jhs.private> <20020920172109.GF5962@panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5vNYLRcllDrimb99" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020920172109.GF5962@panix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 01:21:09PM -0400, Adam Turoff wrote: > The EuroBSD Con last September was somewhat similar, but held in a > hotel IIRC for various reasons. (Nik? Care to comment?) [ Note that apart from planning to attend, I have no involvement with this years EuroBSDCon ] Travel and timing, predominantly. For putting on a conference, you need a venue that people can get to, is reasonably priced, and has sufficient easy-to-reach accommodation. For people coming in to the UK from Europe, you either arrive at one of the south coast ports, or Heathrow, Gatwick, or Luton airports. Universities were out of the running because we were doing the conference in November, which is right in the middle of the semester. If we were doing a conference in the Summer or early Autumn then universities would have been perfect. But we weren't, so it's either=20 hotels, or dedicated conference facilities. Hotels and conference facilities near airports cost a *fortune* (at least, they do in the UK). I personally spoke to the events liason=20 people at the hotels near Heathrow, Gatwick, and Luton, and the costs=20 were astronomical. Public transport in the UK isn't that great, so we needed to find somewhere that was easy to get to from the air and sea ports. Brighton fit that description, as it has pretty good train links. Brighton had the added benefit that I knew the town reasonably well, and Joe lives there, so if there were any issues that needed to be resolved we didn't need to traipse halfway across the country. The other place we seriously looked at was Cardif -- Paul knows it like the back of his hand, and it had some great venues available at a reasonable price. But traveling to Cardif from the rest of the UK (and the ports) takes a long time, and is costly. And Cardif's airport didn't have flights to/from most of the Continent. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --5vNYLRcllDrimb99 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj2MW60ACgkQk6gHZCw343W1/gCaA8faNgZUaWuGFN4HEbsmdeHH k7QAnAo4gwRJVmJdJPIzIYIagy+YphAV =1xOa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5vNYLRcllDrimb99-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message