From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Dec 22 1:43:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012F437B401 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:43:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.datanet.hu (mx2.datanet.hu [194.149.13.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D3943EDE for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:43:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Received: from fonix.adamsfamily.xx (nilus-3971.adsl.datanet.hu [195.56.231.161]) by mx2.datanet.hu (DataNet) with ESMTP id AC3A75BB8 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:43:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from fonix.adamsfamily.xx (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fonix.adamsfamily.xx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBM9hWnk001401 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:43:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Received: (from cc@localhost) by fonix.adamsfamily.xx (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gBM9hVn9001400 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:43:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) X-Authentication-Warning: fonix.adamsfamily.xx: cc set sender to sziszi@bsd.hu using -f Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:43:31 +0100 From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD's momentum and future prospects Message-ID: <20021222094331.GC785@fonix.adamsfamily.xx> Mail-Followup-To: Szilveszter Adam , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Well, since you asked for it...:-) Here is my take. I think that FreeBSD 5.0, once it comes out, will be the most exciting release of FreeBSD that there ever was. Rarely do we see so many new features making their way into a new major version of the OS. I furthermore think, that even when compared to the other BSDs, FreeBSD 5.0 is still in very good shape, although there are probably parts that still could be usefully incorporated into it from other BSDs, or added as an option to ports. (Some of the enhancements of pf over ipfilter come to mind, but there are others) In any event, I think that the old saying of "If you want functionality, go to FreeBSD, if you want security, go to OpenBSD" no longer holds: FreeBSD 5.0 will support almost everything in terms of security that OpenBSD does, including kernel accelerated crypto, while at the same time also offering functionality that the other OS does not. When compared to Linux (ok, not all 2153446646457 distros out there, just the major ones) there are items that stick out. - As others have noted, there is no desktop-oriented version of FreeBSD, which is a shame, since even NetBSD tried to do something of that sort not long ago. (I do not know if it was successful) While many people on this list may think that FreeBSD is purely a server OS, I think that this is not necessarily true. Remember, people said the same about Linux, and now we see that a change is happening. It could happen to us, if only some missing pieces would be in place. Among these, one of the most important is a new, modular installer to replace the officially end-of-lifed sysinstall. This new installer will need to be able to offer a GUI interface, a console interface and a full-blown scripting interface, so that unattended installs become a reality since this is a requirement for commercial purposes. Unfortunately, libh is nowhere near ready, and this has been the case for years now. Also, and administration interface needs to develop, since what we have in sysinstall now, is a bit too much for installation needs but falls far short of what is needed for system administration. For example, you can create a new user, but you cannot create a new group. Ick. NetBSD (again) has embarked on this journey and have created sushi(8) to solve this need. - As for drivers, Linux is getting into the position where OS/2 used to be, or the MacOS is now, that not every hardware, but more and more hardware comes with drivers from the manufacturer/vendor. These drivers often do not offer the full functionality of the hardware (see eg printer drivers) but at least exist. The Open Source community, how much it may want to do so, will not be able to keep up with the flood of hardware devices that appear every year and not even with those that people will want to really use. While both FreeBSD and Linux have reached the point where you can go out and buy most PC hardware and expect it to work, this does not hold true for many typically desktop oriented items (sound cards, printers, scanners, USB mass storage devices, Bluetooth etc) Also, localization support is still in its initial stages, since eg there is no way to localize the text strings that libc spits out, we do not have (yet) a framework like the GNU gettext library that would be in widespread use. - As for the higher-end server arena, Linux was lucky since paid programmers took up projects to make it run on eg IBM or Sun hardware. Unfortunately, even NetBSD does not support the recent platforms yet, since (for some reason:-) nobody is willing to donate eg an IBM server freely to a developer. Also, eg the SMPng project still needs to fully produce its results. Linux is much further in SMP support now. And again, drivers are needed for special hardware devices in use at large installations. - As for publicity, Linux clearly wins, since by now everybody has heard of it. But this can change rather quickly, if commercial sponsors come on board. Unfortunately, the big players are already taken (even though they only use Linux as their "entry-level" offering for those that want something cheap, and make sure that the transition is smooth from Linux on eg Sun hardware to Solaris on Sun hardware... Of course, I still think that BSD developers need not hide from the world when it comes to new creative ideas, for a good example on this, see the GEOM project or the MAC framework on FreeBSD 5.0. But these projects would not have happened were it not for the support of DARPA and commercial sponsors, since this already work that simply cannot be done at home, after the kids went to bed. So, while BSD still is a great platform to use and develop, unless sponsors spring up and hardware vendors start taking it seriously, it will never come out of its current niche. OpenBSD is pretty much in the same situation, while NetBSD's hope is the embedded market, where it already has such a sponsor. But only time will tell. Regards: -- Szilveszter ADAM Szombathely Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Dec 22 9:33:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660C237B405 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0313C43EDE for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:33:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from gothmog.gr (patr530-b206.otenet.gr [212.205.244.214]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBMHXaQK010490 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:33:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from gothmog.gr (gothmog [127.0.0.1]) by gothmog.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBMHXYlK017366 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:33:35 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: (from giorgos@localhost) by gothmog.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gBMGTEwv017113; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 18:29:14 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 18:29:14 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD's momentum and future prospects Message-ID: <20021222162914.GB16833@gothmog.gr> References: <20021221231417.GB32071@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <001101c2a948$2034b5e0$c601a8c0@silverdollar> <20021222034806.GA34537@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021222034806.GA34537@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 2002-12-22 03:48, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 03:24:35PM -0800, Peter Kieser wrote: > | On another note, the only reason Linux is getting commerical interest is > | because people don't know about FreeBSD, they also don't know about the > | goods of the BSD license, if corporations were made aware of how the BSD > | license can be used, I gaurntee you we would have more people jumping on the > | band wagon for FreeBSD development and such. I just don't think BSD in > | general gets enough publicity. > > I recently read that the new Mandrake licensing plans for commercial will > allow modification of the source without requiring they be released. The > article remarks how much that is like the BSD license. This sounds pretty impossible to do with GPL code. Where did you read that? Unless seen in more context, "modification of the source without requiring they be released" sounds something very hard to do for Linux and its GPL parts. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Dec 22 10:12:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C91237B401 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.65.60]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 483B743ED8 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:12:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from szorcc@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 23733 invoked by uid 0); 22 Dec 2002 18:12:48 -0000 Received: from pd9e03c4b.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO jla-015) (217.224.60.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp010-rz3) with SMTP; 22 Dec 2002 18:12:48 -0000 From: Szorcc To: Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 18:58:27 +0100 X-Mailer: Vivian Mail [327.0209010] Subject: root on InterJet II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20021222181257.483B743ED8@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everybody, is there anybody out there who can tell me how can I get root= access on a Whistle InterJet II? Thx. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Dec 22 10:15:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17D037B401 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pop.freedomvoice.com (pop.freedomvoice.com [65.244.199.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412BD43EE8 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:15:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jeremiah@sherline.com) Received: (qmail 73358 invoked by uid 0); 22 Dec 2002 18:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cptnhosedonkey) (jeremiah@68.7.36.2) by pop.freedomvoice.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2002 18:14:06 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c2a9e6$12ff5210$0200a8c0@cptnhosedonkey> From: "Jeremiah Gowdy" To: "Szorcc" , References: <20021222181257.483B743ED8@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: root on InterJet II Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:15:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG That's easy. Just pop the firewall, bypass the encryption, and drop your virus. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Szorcc" To: Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:58 AM Subject: root on InterJet II Hi everybody, is there anybody out there who can tell me how can I get root access on a Whistle InterJet II? Thx. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Dec 22 10:55:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3043D37B401 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx3.datanet.hu (mxpool.datanet.hu [194.149.13.160]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D647A43EDC for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:55:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Received: from fonix.adamsfamily.xx (nilus-3971.adsl.datanet.hu [195.56.231.161]) by mx3.datanet.hu (DataNet) with ESMTP id 70A751EA5C6 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:55:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from fonix.adamsfamily.xx (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fonix.adamsfamily.xx (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBMItCnk050316 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:55:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) Received: (from cc@localhost) by fonix.adamsfamily.xx (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gBMItB23050315 for freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:55:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sziszi@bsd.hu) X-Authentication-Warning: fonix.adamsfamily.xx: cc set sender to sziszi@bsd.hu using -f Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:55:11 +0100 From: Szilveszter Adam To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD's momentum and future prospects Message-ID: <20021222185511.GA49770@fonix.adamsfamily.xx> Mail-Followup-To: Szilveszter Adam , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20021221231417.GB32071@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <001101c2a948$2034b5e0$c601a8c0@silverdollar> <20021222034806.GA34537@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20021222162914.GB16833@gothmog.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021222162914.GB16833@gothmog.gr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Dec 22, 2002 at 06:29:14PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > This sounds pretty impossible to do with GPL code. Where did you > read that? Unless seen in more context, "modification of the source > without requiring they be released" sounds something very hard to do > for Linux and its GPL parts. Here is the context: There is some code (an advanced firewall) whose author is Mandrakesoft. They dual-license it under both the GPL and the other license that was mentioned. The GPL version is still free, but you get extra support (and possibly other benefits) for the other one, but you have to pay. So, nothing out of the ordinary: if you are the author, you can dual-license the code as you see fit. -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Szombathely Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sun Dec 22 13: 0:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E08F937B49C for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 13:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCA843EE5 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 13:00:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18QDD3-000IO8-00; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:00:29 +0000 Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gBML0SPe041414; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:00:28 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id gBML0RUm041413; Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:00:27 GMT Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:00:27 +0000 From: Jonathon McKitrick To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD's momentum and future prospects Message-ID: <20021222210027.GA41373@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20021221231417.GB32071@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <001101c2a948$2034b5e0$c601a8c0@silverdollar> <20021222034806.GA34537@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20021222162914.GB16833@gothmog.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021222162914.GB16833@gothmog.gr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *18QDD3-000IO8-00*3GVm8cuAeoA* Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Dec 22, 2002 at 06:29:14PM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: | On 2002-12-22 03:48, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: | > On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 03:24:35PM -0800, Peter Kieser wrote: | > | On another note, the only reason Linux is getting commerical interest is | > | because people don't know about FreeBSD, they also don't know about the | > | goods of the BSD license, if corporations were made aware of how the BSD | > | license can be used, I gaurntee you we would have more people jumping on the | > | band wagon for FreeBSD development and such. I just don't think BSD in | > | general gets enough publicity. | > | > I recently read that the new Mandrake licensing plans for commercial will | > allow modification of the source without requiring they be released. The | > article remarks how much that is like the BSD license. | | This sounds pretty impossible to do with GPL code. Where did you | read that? Unless seen in more context, "modification of the source | without requiring they be released" sounds something very hard to do | for Linux and its GPL parts. It's not the Linux code they are talking about. There is a multi-network firewall that they include. For commercial, you can buy licenses and support, and also get the source code to MNF, IIUC. Linux stays GPL. jm -- My other computer is your Windows box. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Dec 23 13:19:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D37437B401 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 2002 13:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp10.wxs.nl (smtp10.wxs.nl [195.121.6.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FDA43EEF for ; Mon, 23 Dec 2002 13:19:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@dds.nl) Received: from cybertron.kruijff (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp10.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H7L0046OCKIQJ@smtp10.wxs.nl> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:19:31 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:18:43 +0100 From: Alex Subject: Re: root on InterJet II In-reply-to: <20021222181257.483B743ED8@mx1.FreeBSD.org> To: Szorcc Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Reply-To: Alex Message-id: <6138510164.20021223221843@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.62 Christmas Edition) Personal Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <20021222181257.483B743ED8@mx1.FreeBSD.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dear/Beste Szorcc, Sunday, December 22, 2002, 6:58:27 PM, you wrote: > Hi everybody, > is there anybody out there who can tell me how can I get root access on a Whistle InterJet II? The charters for the various lists are given at the bottom of this document. Please *read* the charter *before* joining or *sending* mail to any list. Most of our list subscribers now receive many hundreds of FreeBSD related messages every day, and by setting down charters and rules for proper use we are striving to keep the signal-to-noise ratio of the lists high. To do less would see the mailing lists ultimately fail as an effective communications medium for the project. freebsd-advocacy FreeBSD Evangelism freebsd-chat Non technical items related to the FreeBSD community This list contains the overflow from the other lists about non-technical, social information. It includes discussion about whether Jordan looks like a toon ferret or not, whether or not to type in capitals, who is drinking too much coffee, where the best beer is brewed, who is brewing beer in their basement, and so on. Occasional announcements of important events (such as upcoming parties, weddings, births, new jobs, etc) can be made to the technical lists, but the follow ups should be directed to this -chat list. freebsd-hackers General technical discussion This is a forum for technical discussions related to FreeBSD. This is the primary technical mailing list. It is for individuals actively working on FreeBSD, to bring up problems or discuss alternative solutions. Individuals interested in following the technical discussion are also welcome. This is a technical mailing list for which strictly technical content is expected. As you can see none apply for you type of question. -- Best regards/Met vriendelijke groet, Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message